<div dir="ltr"><div>Hello,<br><br>Amending the RSA to enable the transfer policy has generated a bunch of discussions and concerns.<br><br>It is very important to see that the proposed changes through the updated 6d(v) and the new 6d(vi) address the concerns expressed. <b>The main/major concern was make sure that we do not create any loopholes to be exploited after.</b><br><br>Other minor changes are harmless and good to have.<br><br>Cheers<br></div>Noah<br><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 11:38 AM, Lu Heng <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:h.lu@anytimechinese.com" target="_blank">h.lu@anytimechinese.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Hi Mike:<div><br></div><div><div>"Your interest" is a very personal attack.</div><div><br></div><div>As I mentioned in my previous email, I view the RSA and policy as two independent documents which serve for entirely different purposes. While RSA allows AFRINIC to establish a legal relationship with its members so AFRINIC can be funded, policies are specifically designed to manage internet resources.</div><div><br></div><div>So by that logic, I don't think there should be any text inside both documents to be complementary to each other.</div><div><br></div><div>If you think that any of these texts that I pointed out has a legal reason to remain, feel free to point it out.</div><div><br></div><div>I am not a lawyer, what I do is to point out the texts which I believe are unrelated to the legal relationship between AFRINIC and its member.</div><div><br></div><div>Even if a certain policy text is missing, we shouldn't expect RSA to enforce a policy that doesn't exist yet. Rather, we should make a policy proposal to ratify the policy.</div><div><br></div><div>But anyway, can we discuss specific cause here instead of arguing whether we should use RSA to manage resource?</div></div><div><font color="#000000"><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><span style="font-size:12.8px">With regards.</span></font></div><span class="gmail-HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div><font color="#000000"><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><span style="font-size:12.8px">Lu</span></font></div></font></span></div><div class="gmail-HOEnZb"><div class="gmail-h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 3 October 2017 at 17:02, Mike Silber <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:silber.mike@gmail.com" target="_blank">silber.mike@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;">Lu<div><br></div><div>I think you are misinterpreting the comment made.</div><div><br></div><div>I think both Omo and Adewole were supporting the principle you expressed (resource management is better addressed in policy than in a legal agreement). Apologies to both if I am misrepresenting you.</div><div><br></div><div>The concern being raised is that absent specific policy on those issues we cannot remove those clauses from the RSA, lest we create a lacunae that could cause problems.</div><div><br></div><div>The suggestion (as I view it) as that we propose and finalise policy to replace the items in the RSA and once the policy has been ratified, we agree a mechanism to remove that issue from the RSA.</div><div><br></div><div>I did not see any ad hominem attack and I don’t think any was intended.</div><span class="gmail-m_3144032740291033177HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div><br></div><div>Mike</div></font></span><div><br><div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div class="gmail-m_3144032740291033177h5"><div>On 3 Oct 2017, at 10:27, Lu Heng <<a href="mailto:h.lu@anytimechinese.com" target="_blank">h.lu@anytimechinese.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="gmail-m_3144032740291033177m_-5730209780382935845Apple-interchange-newline"></div></div><div><div><div class="gmail-m_3144032740291033177h5"><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:ArialMT;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div class="gmail_extra"><br class="gmail-m_3144032740291033177m_-5730209780382935845Apple-interchange-newline"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 3 October 2017 at 15:53, Omo Oaiya<span class="gmail-m_3144032740291033177m_-5730209780382935845Apple-converted-space"> </span><span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Omo.Oaiya@wacren.net" target="_blank">Omo.Oaiya@wacren.net</a>></span><span class="gmail-m_3144032740291033177m_-5730209780382935845Apple-converted-space"> </span>w<wbr>rote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="overflow-wrap: break-word;"><span class="gmail-m_3144032740291033177m_-5730209780382935845gmail-"><br><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>On 3 Oct 2017, at 06:59, Lu Heng <<a href="mailto:h.lu@anytimechinese.com" target="_blank">h.lu@anytimechinese.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="gmail-m_3144032740291033177m_-5730209780382935845gmail-m_-3888892058969993002Apple-interchange-newline"><div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div><br class="gmail-m_3144032740291033177m_-5730209780382935845gmail-m_-3888892058969993002Apple-interchange-newline"><br></div><div>Those ip addresses management clause inside RSA was written by lawyers, not the community. According to bottom up process, only policy can dictate how we use IP addresses.</div></div><br class="gmail-m_3144032740291033177m_-5730209780382935845gmail-m_-3888892058969993002Apple-interchange-newline"></div></blockquote></div><br></span><div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"> It is AfriNIC that facilitates this bottom up process. It is also it responsibility to coordinate the management of INR. Some might say this is its primary responsibility.</div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">Until a policy gets developed by the community, the RSA is the only mechanism available for fufilling this management mandate. Your interest in removing these clauses from the RSA is probably better served by proposing policy that makes them redundant as Dewole suggests.</div><span class="gmail-m_3144032740291033177m_-5730209780382935845gmail-HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px">-Omo </div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-variant-east-asian:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><br><br></div></font></span></div><br></div></blockquote></div><div class="gmail_extra">"My interest" is a weird misinterpretation and completely not true(why must it get personal every time, omo? ) I barely point out the clause that contains IP address management material(and I might have missed some).</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">Those words are written by lawyers to manage IP addresses - this shouldn't happen in the very first place, because in the bottom up process, only community-developed policies are able to manage the IP address, which is the golden rule of bottom up process. Operators get to decide how they want to use and manager the very resource they are using instead of lawyers.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_extra">By your logic, if there is a missing item in the policy, we should simply ask lawyers to add it to the RSA until community makes a redundant policy - but this is not how PDP works. PDP is not served as a way to replicate what lawyers wrote. Rather, if you think there is a missing item in the policy, you will have to make a policy proposal, and see if community agrees.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">RSA should in no way serve as a complementary to the policy, rather, they are two independent documents that serve for entirely different purposes. While RSA allows AFRINIC to establish a legal relationship with its members so AFRINIC can be funded, policies are specifically designed to manage internet resources.</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>--<span class="gmail-m_3144032740291033177m_-5730209780382935845Apple-converted-space"> </span><br><div class="gmail-m_3144032740291033177m_-5730209780382935845gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div>--<br>Kind regards.<br>Lu<br><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><span><span style="font-family:ArialMT;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline">______________________________<wbr>_________________</span><br style="font-family:ArialMT;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><span style="font-family:ArialMT;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;float:none;display:inline">Community-Discuss mailing list</span><br style="font-family:ArialMT;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net" style="font-family:ArialMT;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br style="font-family:ArialMT;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss" style="font-family:ArialMT;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">https://lists.afrinic.net/mail<wbr>man/listinfo/community-discuss</a></span></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail-m_3144032740291033177gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div>--<br>Kind regards.<br>Lu<br><br></div></div></div>
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