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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">There is nothing personal in what I have said – it is what I feel is at the very heart of this discussion.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Unless we are transparent about the heart of a discussion and get down to the real nuts and bolts we will never find resolution. As I said – this is my perception.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">You talk about legal constraints and using them – is that not EXACTLY what has been done with the proxy limitations? Using a bylaw constraint to control the actions of members?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Let us also be consistent in our arguments<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Andrew<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">From: </span>
</b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">Badru Ntege <badru.ntege@nftconsult.com><br>
<b>Date: </b>Friday, 30 September 2016 at 20:48<br>
<b>To: </b>Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya@wacren.net>, "community-discuss@afrinic.net" <community-discuss@afrinic.net><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Community-Discuss] Accountability assessment - quorum<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">As usual we miss the point <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I think historical reference was mentioned by others and not me. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I asked for an open discussion which has happened by other members. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">My objection is to use legal constraints which goes to limiting options. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">We are a community of many who are by far wiser than the few of us who are vocal on the list and if we start setting boundaries through legal constraints in my view its against the principles that the Internet echo system. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Can I also suggest we remain on topic and avoid the temptation to personalise our arguments. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">It's all about Afrinic and not us <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Regards <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-style-span">Badru Ntege</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-style-span">CEO </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-style-span">NFT Consult Ltd </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="apple-style-span"><a href="http://Www.Nftconsult.com">Www.Nftconsult.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">“Vision without execution is hallucination.” <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">― Thomas A. Edison<o:p></o:p></p>
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On 30 Sep 2016, at 8:37 pm, Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Badru – </span>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">I am very aware there are many jurisdictions and I’ve heard this argument from you sooooo many times.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">You’re welcome to try and get consensus to move AfriNIC to another juristriction and under the bylaws you could probably even pass a special resolution to do it if you could get those kinda
numbers – but I know how I would be voting in this regard – but of course if you get a 75% majority for it – great.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">What amuses me however is the view that people want to restrict what members can and can’t do because they didn’t like the outcome of a particular scenario – I have yet to see a single
shred of conclusive evidence of proxies being used in any way that is outside of the rules – I have seen plenty of whining that its impacted things in ways that certain people didn’t like – but they are very different things.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">I associate this type of changing of the rules and adding restrictions in my mind with what we have seen in so many parts of the world when an incumbent or someone doesn’t want to accept
the will of a clear majority vote – change the rules…</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">It’s all the same thing in my eyes – pure and unadulterated hegemony – and I’m sick of it.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">If a member wishes to give his proxy to someone – anyone – he has a right to do so.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">If that person uses that proxy in a way the member never intended – the member can take that up with the person holding the proxy – it is the members responsibility.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">If 90% of the members choose to trust one individual carry their votes – because that is where their faith lies – that is their choice – their right – and their responsibility to deal with
the outcomes.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">That is democracy – this blatant and transparent attempt to restrict a member’s rights in the name of “stopping abuse” – when there is no concrete evidence is a joke. It is undemocratic,
it is an insult to the intelligence of the members who sign those proxies, it is transparent manipulation of the system to attempt to achieve a result through the influencing of who can do what – and it is a joke.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">This is how I see it – others my disagree – but these are the views that I stand by</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Andrew</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">From: </span>
</b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">Badru Ntege <<a href="mailto:badru.ntege@nftconsult.com">badru.ntege@nftconsult.com</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Friday, 30 September 2016 at 20:13<br>
<b>To: </b>Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Omo Oaiya <<a href="mailto:Omo.Oaiya@wacren.net">Omo.Oaiya@wacren.net</a>>, "<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Community-Discuss] Accountability assessment - quorum</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Andrew <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On 30 Sep 2016, at 5:30 pm, Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">No Omo, </span>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Please read what Ashok said – the limitation *<b>WILL NOT SURVIVE LEGAL CHALLENGE</b>*
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Afrinic is a regional organisation if we are being shackled by jurisdiction of registration we have 52 other jurisdictions. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">We have options. Let's remain very open and objective to what is best for members. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Consensus not legal shackles is what the Internet is built on. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">The companies act does not ALLOW the limitation.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Andrew</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">From: </span>
</b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">Omo Oaiya <<a href="mailto:Omo.Oaiya@wacren.net">Omo.Oaiya@wacren.net</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Friday, 30 September 2016 at 17:29<br>
<b>To: </b>Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc: </b>Jean-Robert Hountomey <<a href="mailto:jrhountomey@gmail.com">jrhountomey@gmail.com</a>>, "<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net">community-discuss@afrinic.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Community-Discuss] Accountability assessment - quorum</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">As you have repeated but that is by the way. What is clear is that electronic voting has solved the issue with proxies so we don’t need them. If the companies act is restrictive and does not support better accountability, proxies can be
limited to one per member to balance things out. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 30 Sep 2016, at 15:22, Andrew Alston <<a href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Jean-Robert because proxies are enshrined in the companies act and the act explicitly states that they cannot be removed irrespective of what a company’s bylaws
/ constitution says.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">See fifth schedule section 6</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">Andrew</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-family:Calibri">From:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span style="font-family:Calibri">Jean-Robert Hountomey <<a href="mailto:jrhountomey@gmail.com"><span style="color:purple">jrhountomey@gmail.com</span></a>><br>
<b>Date:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Friday, 30 September 2016 at 17:22<br>
<b>To:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>"<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net"><span style="color:purple">community-discuss@afrinic.net</span></a>" <<a href="mailto:community-discuss@afrinic.net"><span style="color:purple">community-discuss@afrinic.net</span></a>><br>
<b>Subject:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Re: [Community-Discuss] Accountability assessment - quorum</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<pre style="background:white">Talking about Board Members election (1) and (2), why do we want to keep Proxies While we have Electronic voting ?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white">Proxies make sens when a member cannot attend the meeting in person, isn't what we wanted to solve with electronic voting?<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white"> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white">(1) <a href="http://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process"><span style="color:purple">http://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process</span></a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white">(2) <a href="http://afrinic.net/en/about/agmm/participate-vote"><span style="color:purple">http://afrinic.net/en/about/agmm/participate-vote</span></a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">On 9/29/16 8:56 PM, Alan Barrett wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<pre style="background:white">On 30 Sep 2016, at 02:26, Mark Elkins <a href="mailto:mje@posix.co.za"><span style="color:purple"><mje@posix.co.za></span></a> wrote<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre style="background:white">The only time the Proxy Restrictions are enforced is for the Board<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white">elections. Traditionally, the elections for the PDP Co-Chair is hands at<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white">the meeting and the elections for the ASO-AC is by secret ballot by<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white">those present.<o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre style="background:white">Proxy restrictions apply to elections by the Members (Resource Members and Registered Members). ASO-AC and PDWG elections are by the community or by the PDWG, not by the Members. Board elections and now Governance Committee elections are by the Members.<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white"> <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white">Alan Barrett<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white"> <o:p></o:p></pre>
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<pre style="background:white">_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white">Community-Discuss mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net"><span style="color:purple">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</span></a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre style="background:white"><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss"><span style="color:purple">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</span></a><o:p></o:p></pre>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;background:white">_______________________________________________</span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica"><br>
<span style="background:white">Community-Discuss mailing list</span><br>
</span><a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:purple;background:white">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</span></a><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica"><br>
</span><a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:purple;background:white">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:Helvetica;color:black">Omo Oaiya<br>
CTO/Directeur Technique, WACREN <br>
Mobile: +234 806 4522778, +221 784 305 224<br>
Skype: kodion<br>
<a href="http://www.wacren.net">http://www.wacren.net</a> <br>
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<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
Community-Discuss mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Community-Discuss@afrinic.net">Community-Discuss@afrinic.net</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss">https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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