[Community-Discuss] Demanding Clarification and/or apology from PTA

[Amin Dayekh]

You answered yes to my question, whereby I asked clearly rephrased here: a
company offering bribe to people to vote in their favor, will this company
be in a lny good standing or credible to talk about corruption again?

Are you sure?

Owen, if I ask you today to take $100 to vote for me in the upcoming
election in Camaros to be MP, and after a few days you see me in the news
lecturing about corruption and pointing fingers at people whom i am
labeling as corrupted, that is ok by you and you will accept my word?

On Sat, Jun 18, 2022 at 8:19 AM Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Jun 18, 2022, at 00:00 , Amin Dayekh <admin at megamore.ng> wrote:
>
> Good Morning Owen,
>
> There is something i wanted to ask you about, but please give me a short
> answer and straight forward:
>
> In your opinion, an organization that is offering bribe to people in order
> to get their votes, in order to influence the outcome of the elections to
> her favor in Camaros, - will that organization be trustworthy ?
>
>
> With the limited information in your question, it’s impossible to form a
> complete opinion, but probably not.
>
> - Will that organization have any right again to lecture about corruption
> while it is promoting the culture of corruption (allegedly as per above if
> it is true)?
>
>
> Yes.
>
> - will you trust any word from that organization?
>
>
> Unknown, insufficient data provided.
>
> - will you have faith and rely on their intensions that they are upright?
>
>
> I rarely have faith or rely on upright intentions of any organization.
>
> I am not pointing any finger at you , rather i am just seeking your
> opinion pls.
>
>
> My opinion is mostly unformed as insufficient data is given in your
> question.
>
> Owen
>
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 18, 2022 at 7:30 AM Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 16, 2022, at 22:26 , Amin Dayekh <admin at megamore.ng> wrote:
>>
>> I am not replying to this news paper, nor I have time to read it all.
>>
>> I will also ask you to remember your statement here, ( the resource
>> holder are pushing for a transfer policy) i will also prove you wrong!
>>
>>
>> I look forward to your attempt to do so.
>>
>> I find it amusing how you have cherry picked what you respond to while
>> ignoring the most salient points in the prior messages to the point where
>> when I limit it to the salient points, you choose to ignore the entire
>> message rather than make a cogent response.
>>
>> Owen
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 4:40 AM Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 15, 2022, at 12:00 , Amin Dayekh <admin at megamore.ng> wrote:
>>>
>>> Owen,
>>> for the sake of time, I will quote and reply and highlighted in red from
>>> your ext
>>>
>>> *quote: ( Because many resource holders wish to be able to sell their
>>> underutilized resources in a worldwide secondary market. ) *you used
>>> the term sell, in another reply you denied selling, anyway whatever the
>>> term is, this should be governed by the rir, there should be an application
>>> with the knowledge of the rir and justification of the use, just like when
>>> you apply to RIR directly, not an unmonitored process. Let me remind us
>>> here of the difference between inter-rir and LIR to another member. this
>>> step was taken by many rir "inter rir transfer" who own majority of the
>>> IPV4, and to regulate the transfers and continue to monitor the ipv4,
>>> closing the door on black and grey market. let me remind us also that such
>>> cases peculiar to need and in cases of bankruptcy or whatever reason the
>>> company might be dissolved. Also let me remind us all the ip resources are
>>> assigned "not sold" to lir based on NEED, justified need.
>>>
>>>
>>> Neither Larus nor Cloud Innovation is selling resources received from
>>> AFRINIC… I stated that many other resource holders wish to do so and that
>>> is one of the reasons that those resource holders are pushing for a
>>> transfer policy.
>>>
>>> This is not inconsistent, it is your inability to differentiate and/or
>>> your failure to look past your efforts to ascribe the most sinister
>>> possible motives to every statement I make.
>>>
>>> The RIR doesn’t govern anything. The community governs the RIR and the
>>> RIR is supposed to administer the registry according to the policies set by
>>> the community and according to its bylaws which are controlled by the
>>> membership of the RIR.
>>>
>>> Perhaps it is this fundamental misunderstanding of who is specifically
>>> supposed to be empowered in the governance of the internet and as a result
>>> the RIRs that is driving some of your other misstatements.
>>>
>>> For clarity:
>>>
>>> ICANN/PTI in its role performing the IANA operates the central registry
>>> for IPv4 addresses, IPv6 addresses, and ASNs (among other things). It does
>>> so according to global policies which are set by the RIRs acting in concert
>>> through the Address Supporting Organization, specifically the ASO AC, which
>>> is synonymous with the NRO NC.
>>>
>>> Each RIR receives resources from the IANA central registry according to
>>> its justified need and pursuant to those policies mentioned above.
>>>
>>> Each RIR distributes those resources to its subscribers (members or not,
>>> depending on the RIR’s specific policies) according to the policies set in
>>> the RIR by its community and according to the bylaws of the RIR set by its
>>> members.
>>>
>>> Each RIR is expected to operate within the policies created by its
>>> membership and according to its bylaws. When an RIR fails to do so, it
>>> becomes far more dangerous than is expected.
>>>
>>> Some RIR subscribers are LIRs (Local Internet Registries). LIRs provide
>>> address space to their customers (usually for a fee) whether in
>>> relationship with connectivity services or as a separate product.
>>>
>>> Some RIR subscribers are end users and simply use the address space they
>>> receive from the RIR directly.
>>>
>>> Every RIR except AFRINIC has an inter-RIR transfer policy at this point.
>>> Yes, the recipient needs to show need in the case of an inter-RIR transfer.
>>>
>>> There are many different reasons organizations want to be able to engage
>>> in inter-RIR transfers and I enumerated several of them. You chose to focus
>>> on a single one because that is the one you hope to be able to twist into
>>> something sinister.
>>>
>>> quote: ( *.... RIPE-NCC should be going after a number of companies who
>>> are operating in Africa using primarily RIPE-NCC issued space. Note that
>>> this is not an issue and nobody has ever claimed it to be an issue. This
>>> allegation that AFRINIC addresses are restricted to Africa is a fiction
>>> that has only ever been promulgated in the context of AFRINIC and has never
>>> received serious attention in any other RIR.) *Answer: AfriNIC got the
>>> smallest portion of ipv4 and it is called AFRICAN etc... enforcing a policy
>>> "which does not exist as of now" to transfer inter RIR or sell will be
>>> suicide to the continent's digital future as the world is at the scarcity
>>> of IPV4, my view. Rather, Auditing the existing delegations and retrieval
>>> is what is supposed to happen. in the meantime, the companies you are
>>> referring to are companies of legitimate presence, not ip brokers and have
>>> ASNs. What is applicable to RIPE or ARIN is not necessarily applicable to
>>> AfriNIC, they can enforce any policy and afrinic is at liberty to do such,
>>> with the view of the little ip resources available and the big future of
>>> Africa.
>>>
>>>
>>> If you are opposed to an inter-RIR transfer policy, then so be it. That
>>> has little or nothing to do with whether or not existing addresses
>>> registered to an organization by AFRINIC are allowed to be used outside of
>>> AFRICA or not.
>>>
>>> However, the policy that does exist now clearly does allow AFRINIC
>>> addresses to be utilized out of region virtually without restriction. A
>>> plain text reading of section 6 of the bylaws makes this quite clear. A
>>> plain text reading of the CPM finds only one place where this is
>>> contradicted and it applies ONLY to addresses issued after the activation
>>> of the Soft Landing policy.
>>>
>>> If you want to conduct legitimate audits, feel free. If you wish to
>>> abide by the legitimate outcome of those audits when they show legitimate
>>> utilization according to the CPM, the RSA, and the bylaws, I’ll fully
>>> support that. However, use out of region does not violate any of the terms
>>> in any of those documents unless the addresses were issued to the
>>> organization after the activation of the soft landing policy.
>>>
>>> AFRINIC is free to enforce any policy which has been adopted by the
>>> community and ratified by the board. There is no policy restricting the
>>> location of utilization of addresses which meets that test at this time.
>>>
>>> *quote: (AFRINIC has not won or last any cases yet regarding the
>>> geographical restriction of IP Utilization. This is more misinformation
>>> from you.)* I did not make any statement about winning on geographical
>>> grounds, why are you putting words in my mouth that I did not say? who is
>>> misinforming now?
>>>
>>>
>>> You stated: "AfriNic acted according to the Bylaw and court, allow me
>>> here to refresh your memory, if the ipv4 is not restricted to ise in Africa
>>> then why the proposals for inter RIR transfer and Other proposals from the
>>> Meeting which are available online? If that is allowed then AfriNic shouod
>>> have lost all cases. What is happening in Mauritius is an abuse of the
>>> Judicial System. “
>>>
>>> Your claim is that AFRINIC should have already lost all cases on
>>> geographic basis if my statement was true. I pointed out that AFRINIC has
>>> neither lost nor won because the cases that relate to this matter have not
>>> yet concluded. I did not put words in your mouth, I responded to what you
>>> actually said.
>>>
>>>
>>> quote : (....soft landing) Soft landing was very good in other rir if
>>> you really wish to compare, refer to ARIN website and see how soft landing
>>> was easy.
>>>
>>>
>>> ARIN never passed a soft landing policy and it worked out quite well
>>> there, IMHO.
>>>
>>> However, the only mention I have made regarding soft landing in any of
>>> these statements is to mention that it is the only policy with geographical
>>> restrictions on utilization codified in the policy. I’ve also pointed out
>>> that said policy does not apply to any addresses issued to Cloud Innovation.
>>>
>>>
>>> *quote : ( I have not and will not lie on behalf of any employer or
>>> client. This statement is an ad hominem attack, is inappropriate to the
>>> list, and is, frankly, a libelous accusation without evidence.)*  did i
>>> say you? did i point any finger to you? why are you always whining and
>>> dtrying to get in the center of attention as if the whole world is
>>> revolving because of you and around you? I said : *Anyone *can convince *himself
>>> with any lie* and convince the minions involved in this issue who have
>>> been (mislead) and unfortunately (paid to spread lie), did you see you or
>>> me or owen or amin in this statement?
>>>
>>>
>>> You made the following direct statement in a message sent directly to me
>>> as well as an open list:
>>> "Anyone can convince himself with any lie and convince the minions
>>> involved in this issue who have been (mislead) and unfortunately (paid to
>>> spread lie)”
>>>
>>> In context, it is quite clear you were intending to level this as a
>>> direct accusation towards me. Your use of weasel words and attempted
>>> evasions notwithstanding, at least I have the courage to own what I say and
>>> take responsibility for it.
>>>
>>>
>>> *quote: ( I have not and will not lie on behalf of any employer or
>>> client. This statement is an ad hominem attack, is inappropriate to the
>>> list, and is, frankly, a libelous accusation without evidence. ) *Again:
>>> Did I say you published any video? did I point any finger at you? did I
>>> mention you?
>>>
>>>
>>> You said: "When someone accuses an organization of corruption, he should
>>> provide evidence, not just a video, especially if he/she/it and under the
>>> table corrupting the members to buy Votes.”
>>>
>>> You said this in an email directed to me and copied to an open list.
>>>
>>> So in effect, yes, you did claim I published a video, you did point a
>>> finger presumably at me, and by having my name as the target of your email,
>>> yes, you did mention me for all practical purposes.
>>>
>>> My email was about PTA, our legal team communicated with them on their
>>> website in Pakistan and the Website of the Embassy in Mauritius and through
>>> a Letter TO THE embassy here, and will send further to the
>>> embassies/commission/high commission/consulate (if any) in all African
>>> Region, so may I understand what involved you here? Are you from Pakistan
>>> or the spokesperson of PTA?
>>>
>>>
>>> In terms of the subsequent emails in this discussion, you put my name in
>>> the To: field of your email. If you didn’t intend to involve me, why did
>>> you do so?
>>> In terms of the original message, you made a public comment about the
>>> letter being sent on behalf of a “fraudulent and misleading organization”,
>>> so I felt obliged to point out your own misleading information that you
>>> have attempted to promulgate in this same forum and with your own misguided
>>> and misleading video.
>>>
>>> I will note, that you did not address the following component of my
>>> previous message:
>>>
>>> You wrote:
>>>
>>> If you think the misquotes you sent before are convincing, maybe to your
>>> good self, but not to me and i did not reply as I usualy say what i want
>>> and walk, reason being I have no time to waste on endless discussions as
>>> the 2nd party is very sure is justifying a wrong cause.
>>>
>>>
>>> To which I responded:
>>>
>>> What misquote, exactly? Please point to where my quote was in error and
>>> be specific.
>>>
>>> I literally copied and pasted the text of section 6 of the bylaws.
>>>
>>>
>>> You carefully avoided answering this… Is it perhaps because you have no
>>> answer here? You could not find an actual misquote?
>>>
>>> I find three messages into this conversation that this statement: "I
>>> have no time to waste on endless discussions as the 2nd party is very sure
>>> is justifying a wrong cause.”
>>> is truly telling as apparently I am not such a second party and
>>> therefore perhaps you are admitting by your actions that I do not actually
>>> have a wrong cause. If so, this is progress.
>>>
>>> Owen
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 15, 2022 at 6:31 PM Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 15, 2022, at 09:22 , Amin Dayekh <admin at megamore.ng> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Owen,
>>>>
>>>> Don’t rush, all in good time.
>>>>
>>>> Yes Misleading the public on claims and claims and claims with no
>>>> single piece of evidence!
>>>>
>>>> AfriNic acted according to the Bylaw and court, allow me here to
>>>> refresh your memory, if the ipv4 is not restricted to ise in Africa then
>>>> why the proposals for inter RIR transfer and Other proposals from the
>>>> Meeting which are available online? If that is allowed then AfriNic shouod
>>>> have lost all cases. What is happening in Mauritius is an abuse of the
>>>> Judicial System.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Because many resource holders wish to be able to sell their
>>>>> underutilized resources in a worldwide secondary market.* Other
>>>>> companies wish to be able to obtain addresses from that same market once
>>>>> the artificially constrained AFRINIC free pool is exhausted. Because some
>>>>> companies would prefer to consolidate their global resources from multiple
>>>>> RIRs to a single contract with a single RIR. There are a variety of reasons
>>>>> that have absolutely nothing to do with any idea of geographic restriction
>>>>> on usage.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If what you say is true, then RIPE-NCC should be going after a number
>>>>> of companies who are operating in Africa using primarily RIPE-NCC issued
>>>>> space. Note that this is not an issue and nobody has ever claimed it to be
>>>>> an issue. This allegation that AFRINIC addresses are restricted to Africa
>>>>> is a fiction that has only ever been promulgated in the context of AFRINIC
>>>>> and has never received serious attention in any other RIR.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> AFRINIC has not won or last any cases yet regarding the geographical
>>>> restriction of IP Utilization. This is more misinformation from you.
>>>>
>>>> I expect that with regard to that particular issue, AFRINIC will lose,
>>>> as a plain text reading of the governing documents does not support such aa
>>>> restriction except in the case of addresses issued after the activation of
>>>> the soft landing policy.
>>>>
>>>> What is happening in Mauritius is a member attempting to defend their
>>>> rights under the contract they signed against a board that is misconstruing
>>>> the bylaws and acting outside of its authority.
>>>>
>>>> The board has repeatedly lost, though it has achieved a few procedural
>>>> victories. Despite its victories, the board remains subject to a series of
>>>> injunctions preventing it from taking any of multiple illegal actions it
>>>> has attempted, including its attempt to run a rigged election. Most of the
>>>> cases are still undecided.
>>>>
>>>> Anyone can convince himself with any lie and convince the minions
>>>> involved in this issue who have been (mislead) and unfortunately (paid to
>>>> spread lie)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have not and will not lie on behalf of any employer or client. This
>>>> statement is an ad hominem attack, is inappropriate to the list, and is,
>>>> frankly, a libelous accusation without evidence.
>>>>
>>>> When someone accuses an organization of corruption, he should provide
>>>> evidence, not just a video, especially if he/she/it and under the table
>>>> corrupting the members to buy Votes.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I’ve made no videos, so I can only assume you are referring to someone
>>>> else here… Perhaps yourself?
>>>>
>>>> If you think the misquotes you sent before are convincing, maybe to
>>>> your good self, but not to me and i did not reply as I usualy say what i
>>>> want and walk, reason being I have no time to waste on endless discussions
>>>> as the 2nd party is very sure is justifying a wrong cause.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What misquote, exactly? Please point to where my quote was in error and
>>>> be specific.
>>>>
>>>> I literally copied and pasted the text of section 6 of the bylaws.
>>>>
>>>> By the way, I did not mention anyone in my email except PTA so which
>>>> company you are talking about?!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I was talking about you and the misinformation contained in your
>>>> statements. I thought that was clear from the context.
>>>>
>>>> Owen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jun 15, 2022 at 5:11 PM Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 14, 2022, at 14:32 , Amin Dayekh <admin at megamore.ng> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear members,
>>>>> my attention was drawn to another misleading video of known sources
>>>>> who are taking maliciously all steps against the Members of AfriNIC and
>>>>> AfriNIC.
>>>>>
>>>>> in the Video I noticed a misleading statement about the "Government of
>>>>> Pakistan" but when i paused and looked at the document it is the Pakistan
>>>>> tELECOM authority and not the government itself.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am writing this post following an email sent to the Pakistan
>>>>> telecommunication Authority aka PTA, through their website to:
>>>>>
>>>>> a- ask, have you really drafted and sent that letter?
>>>>> b- inquire, on what basis have you sent that letter? have you at least
>>>>> communicated with AFRINIC TO HEAR THEIR PART OF THE STORY?
>>>>> c- raise a solid query with regards to their breach of our sovereignty
>>>>> as an African continent, Regions, Countries, and Nations through the
>>>>> alleged Letter sent to the government of Mauritius in support of a
>>>>> fraudulent misleading organization requiring some details on how Africa's
>>>>> IPV4 addresses ended and are in USE in Pakistan, which, as per the last
>>>>> time I checked, is not an African country.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Misleading? As in the misleading claim that AFRINIC issued addresses
>>>>> are somehow restricted to use in Africa when nothing in the bylaws, RSA, or
>>>>> CPM says so?
>>>>>
>>>>> You continue to repeat this claim despite repeated clarifications and
>>>>> corrections on the fallacious nature of the claim. Clearly, you are the one
>>>>> engaged in a campaign of disinformation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Owen
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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