[Community-Discuss] ID verification on the Database Working Group mailing list

Mon Jan 24 11:13:25 UTC 2022

Here is the thing Mike - do I know if the people in the ietf are sock puppets - no - do I care - no - and here is why.

If the code of conduct is written correctly - and properly enforced - it won’t make a difference - because consensus is not based on numbers of people - it is based on technical quality of objections - a single valid unaddressed objection can derail something and 500+1s aren’t gonna help.

If you step out of the code of conduct - the sergeant at arms doesn’t care who you are - he cares about what you say and the nature of your input.  Done right - the issue of sock puppets won’t be an issue. What will be at issue is - are you on topic - are you respectful - are following the note well (the rules that form the basis of the code of conduct)

Andrew

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________________________________
From: Mike Silber <silber.mike at gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2022 11:43:51 AM
To: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] ID verification on the Database Working Group mailing list

Andrew

You make some good points. Not sure if the IETF also has an issue with sock-puppets, astroturfing and posters using pseudonyms?Maybe you can enlighten us?

My personal view is that the key point that is missing [and the *real* issue on the mailing list] is not identity verification, but failure to disclose affiliation.

Along with the suggestions you made [code of conduct, well enforced] is a disclosure requirement [see ICANN’s SOI / statement of interest process for all working groups as an example].

I have no issue with comments from users using pseudonyms - provided they have a complete SOI setting out their affiliations to avoid the *real* concern with such users, namely sock-puppets and astroturfing.

Looking forward to your feedback.

Mike

On 24 Jan 2022, at 09:22, Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss <community-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>> wrote:

If AfriNIC chooses to remove me from the lists because I refuse to hand over ID documents – while they are quite ok with taking my money as an authorized admin contact – then in effect, they are no longer providing the service that a full RIR providers to other members, based on a requirement that they have no mandate to implement.

AfriNIC cannot guarantee the security of information provided.
AfriNIC has no way to verify that the documents submitted are valid
AfriNIC has no mandate from its member base to request for and hold sensitive personal information.

To be blunt – I will be giving AfriNIC no such documents – if they choose to remove me from the lists and remove my say in this community and in their processes as a result – either admit at that point that AfriNIC is no more than a book keeper to me – and discount my fees accordingly – or – I will take whatever action I deem necessary to deal with what I view as a flagrant, unsanctioned move by an organization that is meant to be bottom up but has now just lost the plot.

I might point out that – no other RIR has such a requirement.  Nor does the IETF.  What they do to solve the issues on their lists is they enforce a code of conduct, complete with an appeal process and a sergeant at arms who’s job it is to deal with violations of the code of conduct.  They sure as hell don’t ask for sensitive documents to prove who people are – that’s insane.

Andrew

From: Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss <community-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2022 9:51 PM
To: AFRINIC Communication <comms at afrinic.net<mailto:comms at afrinic.net>>
Cc: Community Discuss <community-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] ID verification on the Database Working Group mailing list

The form requires one to agree to submit to an unspecified online identity verification process. This is not reasonable. The process should be spelled out in detail prior to demanding that someone agree to submit to it.

While I favor a reasonable identity verification process, the document linked has no relationship to such a thing and is, instead a contract of attainder which should not be allowed.

Owen

On Jan 20, 2022, at 10:46, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com<mailto:owen at delong.com>> wrote:

The requirements are expressed in sexist terms. Arguably a violation of the very CoC it alleges to bind one to strict adherence.

Perhaps this should be reviewed and amended?

Owen

On Jan 20, 2022, at 04:52, AFRINIC Communication <comms at afrinic.net<mailto:comms at afrinic.net>> wrote:

Dear colleagues,

AFRINIC is now introducing  an ID verification process for our mailing lists. This is part of our “Know Your Customer” (KYC) measures that aims at addressing any abuses on the AFRINIC community mailing lists and making our online community a place where people can better engage and learn from and with their peers.

The ID verification will start its application with the Database Working Group mailing list and will follow a simple process, before embarking on the other AFRINIC community mailing lists. Thank you for your constructive feedback as we seek to continue improving the process.

You are kindly invited to start the process by filling out this form: https://verification.afrinic.net/<https://verification.afrinic.net>

Subscribers to this mailing list have until the 20th of February 2022 to complete their ID verification.

We encourage all subscribers to take necessary steps before the above timeframe has elapsed.

Kindly note that after the 20th of February 2022, the messages of the subscribers who have not completed the KYC check will be automatically rejected.

Regards,
AFRINIC Team

………………………………………………..

Chers collègues,

AFRINIC introduit un processus de vérification d'identité pour nos listes de diffusion. Ceci fait partie de nos mesures "Know Your Customer" (KYC) qui visent à traiter tout abus sur les listes de diffusion de la communauté AFRINIC et à faire de notre communauté en ligne un lieu où les gens peuvent mieux s'engager et apprendre de et avec leurs collègues.

La vérification d'identité commencera par la liste de diffusion du Groupe de travail sur les bases de données (DBWG) et suivra un processus simple, avant de s'étendre aux autres listes de diffusion de la communauté AFRINIC. Nous vous remercions de vos commentaires constructifs, car nous cherchons à continuer à améliorer le processus.

Vous êtes cordialement invités à commencer le processus en remplissant ce formulaire : https://verification.afrinic.net/<https://verification.afrinic.net/>.
Les abonnés à cette liste de diffusion ont jusqu'au 20 février 2022 pour procéder à la vérification de leur identité.

Nous encourageons tous les abonnés à prendre les mesures nécessaires avant que le délai ci-dessus ne soit écoulé.

Veuillez noter qu'après le 20 février 2022, les messages des abonnés qui n'auront pas effectué la vérification KYC seront automatiquement rejetés.

Cordialement,
L'équipe AFRINIC_______________________________________________
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