From portia.rabonda at safnog.net Sat Sep 4 12:07:04 2021 From: portia.rabonda at safnog.net (Portia Rabonda) Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2021 12:07:04 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] SAFNOG-6 Virtual Conference Message-ID: Dear All, SAFNOG will be hosting its sixth annual conference, SAFNOG-6, virtually on September 27-28, 2021. While we were looking forward to a physical meeting this year, the world is still facing the ongoing challenge of the spread of the Coronavirus (COVID-19), and this makes it imperative that we hold the meeting virtually to ensure the safety of all while looking forward to meeting again in person in the near future. The SAFNOG-6 Virtual Conference will be a two-day event of engagement and knowledge sharing on topics relevant to Internet Operations and Technologies such as IPv4 / IPv6 Routing and Operations; Internet policy (Security, Regulation, Content Management, Addressing, etc); Network security issues (NSP-SEC, DDoS, Anti-Spam, Anti-Malware); and IXPs and Peering, to name a few. Register now on: https://safnog.org/virtual-meetings/ For queries, email conference at safnog.org Regards, Portia Rabonda On behalf of SAFNOG MC -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From abscoco at gmail.com Thu Sep 9 14:20:54 2021 From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain Baya) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2021 15:20:54 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Clarifications & Clear Support to the INRS, to AfriNIC and its Regional Community In-Reply-To: <17b897acee4.c851c88f77669.3881064469855958500@africaoncloud.net> References: <17b897acee4.c851c88f77669.3881064469855958500@africaoncloud.net> Message-ID: Dear AfriNIC's Community, Hope this email finds you in good health! Le ven. 27 ao?t 2021 ? 22:19, Paul Wollner a ?crit : > There are always two sides to a story. > > There are always two sides to a story. > https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/2021-August/068571.html > > Hi Paul, Thanks for contributing to put all those interesting materials together here [1], brother ;-) ...there you go [2]! just in time, another well appreciated support from Hans Petter Holen, the Managing Director of the RIPE NCC (the chair of the Number Resource Organisation (NRO) Executive Council.). Now! two Regional RIRs have affirmed their support to AfriNIC, to the INRS (RFC7020) and to the AfriNIC's Internet Community. ...i'm really thankful to Hans, to RIPE NCC and to RIPE simply ;-) __ [1]: [Community-Discuss] Clarifications & Clear Support to the INRS, to AfriNIC and its Regional Community [2]: Supporting the Internet Number Registry System | RIPE Labs ~?~ [...] Support for AFRINIC This said, we are absolutely committed to supporting the Internet Number Registry system, of which AFRINIC is an integral part. Although we will not become involved in any additional registry activity, we do stand ready to support our colleagues in AFRINIC. The RIRs have committed to assist each other in-kind and financially if this should be necessary to protect the integrity of any RIR?s Internet registry services. The RIR Joint Stability Fund is the mechanism through which this assistance can be provided should AFRINIC request that it be activated. However, AFRINIC has not yet formally requested that this fund be activated. We are, however, prepared to do so, and the RIPE NCC Executive Board Meeting on 19 August, the Board unanimously adopted the following resolution: ?The RIPE NCC Executive Board authorises the RIPE NCC Managing Director to review and act on behalf of the RIPE NCC on any request for the activation of the RIR Joint Stability Fund, in case such request is formally submitted by AFRINIC within a three month period from the date of this resolution and according to the process described here: https://www.nro.net/accountability/rir-accountability/joint-rir-stability-fund/ . Further, the RIPE NCC Executive Board allows for RIR activities that are related to AFRINIC operations to qualify for support from this Fund, provided that this is formally requested by AFRINIC.? Finally, the RIRs receive their mandate to operate from their communities. We have been greatly impressed by the strong statements of support AFRINIC has received from its community and from across the wider Internet industry. We have faith in the ability of the African Internet community to resolve this situation without undue damage to the very system that has been so beneficial to the sustainable growth of the Internet as we know it today. [...] ~?~ ...i have pasted a small piece, but please go to the source [2], to get the full context...icymi! Shalom, --sb. >* [...]* > > > ---- On Fri, 27 Aug 2021 21:31:10 +0200 *Sylvain Baya >* wrote ---- > > Dear AfriNIC's Community, > > Hope this email finds you in good health... > > ...i'm really thankful to John for his clear support > to the Internet Numbers Registry System (INRS) > aka RFC7020 [1] and to its kind words and support > both to AfriNIC and its *Regional* (Internet) community. Remain blessed > brother! > __ > [1]: > > ~?~ > "[...] > If AFRINIC requests support in accordance with > the Joint RIR Stability Fund, ARIN will support > such a request. Furthermore, and without > reservation, ARIN stands by its unwavering > commitment to support AFRINIC and will take any > and all measures necessary to ensure that neither > the African networking community, nor the global > Internet number registry system, is operationally > impacted during this period. AFRINIC was formed > (and has accomplished so much) for the benefit of > the African networking community and ARIN > stands with the community in dealing with those > who seek to disrupt or exploit it for their own benefit. > [...]" > ~?~ > > ...icymi, please read the full blog post here [2]. > __ > [2]: < > https://teamarin.net/2021/08/27/afrinic-and-the-stability-of-the-internet-number-registry-system/ > > > > Shalom, > --sb. > [...] > > > > -- Best Regards ! baya.sylvain [AT cmNOG DOT cm] |cmNOG's Structure |cmNOG's Surveys Subscribe to the cmNOG's Mailing List __ *#?LASAINTEBIBLE?|?#?Romains15?:33?*Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec vous tous! ?#?Amen?!*??#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement??*Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!*? (#Psaumes42:2)* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From isabel.odida at gmail.com Fri Sep 10 07:54:44 2021 From: isabel.odida at gmail.com (Isabel Odida) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2021 10:54:44 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] UGNOG summit 2021 - Call For Presentations Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, We invite all individuals wishing to make presentations during UGNOG Summit 2021, which will be held on September 29th, 2021 to submit their abstracts. We welcome presentations focusing on the following subjects: ? Data protection and Privacy ? Cyber Security ? Blockchain and 4th industrial revolution Your contribution can be in the form of a presentation during a session, a tutorial or a live technical demonstration. Kindly read all information carefully before submitting your proposal. The maximum time allotted per presentation will not exceed 15 minutes. Submission deadline is September 24th, 2021. Please submit your proposal to the following address: https://events.ug.nog.community/event/4/abstracts/ If you experience any difficulties please do not hesitate to contact me directly. Best regards, Isabel Odida On behalf of UGNOG -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hrobert at africacert.org Tue Sep 14 04:48:03 2021 From: hrobert at africacert.org (Jean-Robert Hountomey) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2021 23:48:03 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [Community-Discuss] Call for Speakers & Trainers for the upcoming FIRST & AfricaCERT Symposium Message-ID: <1631594883.064619625@apps.rackspace.com> Dear Colleagues, The 2021 Annual FIRST & AfricaCERT Symposium will take place (virtually) on December 7-9, 2021 with plenary sessions held on December 7 from 11:00-16:30 UTC, with trainings on December 8 and 9 from 11:00-15:00 UTC. The symposium will be virtual and presented in English. The call for speakers is open to the global community at large, however, ideal candidates are those actively working within the region, or have recent experience working within the region. If you are interested in participating as a speaker, panelist, or trainer please complete the submission form (button below) for consideration. Submissions must be received by 20:00 UTC on September 30, 2021. Please find more information at: https://www.first.org/events/symposium/africa-arab-regions2021/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eddy at afrinic.net Tue Sep 14 07:00:33 2021 From: eddy at afrinic.net (Eddy Kayihura) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2021 11:00:33 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] September Updates Message-ID: <5CFABCCA-1B13-44D3-B9F7-07CEE9CF0737@afrinic.net> Hi All, Please see a message below that was sent on the Members-Discuss list. Please stay safe and kind regards, Eddy > Begin forwarded message: > > From: Eddy Kayihura > > Subject: [members-discuss] September Updates > Date: 14 September 2021 at 10:55:16 GMT+4 > To: AfriNIC Discuss > > > Dear Resource Members, > > It has been some time without the usual monthly update from me. I would like to reconnect the habit although I am sure you have been kept updated through other communications channels. > > AFRINIC Jenga Sessions with the Resources Members > > Jenga which means ?Build? in Swahili, aims at building stronger relationships with the AFRINIC resource holders through organising dedicated sessions aimed at highlighting the services offered by AFRINIC and collecting feedback and recommendations from our resource members. Over the course of the sessions, the AFRINIC Team embarked on implementing Jenga with our resource members. During the sessions, we explained the current situation and discussed the risk mitigation mechanisms that are in place to ensure a smooth continuation of services despite the freezing of our bank accounts. The roundtable discussion of the Jenga was a success and has been documented in the AFRINIC Blog . > > 2. Legal updates > > As you may be aware, we recently applied for the removal of the attachment or alternatively, a reduction of the amount of money attached in the AFRINIC?s bank accounts. The request for the removal of the attachment is connected to a prior case for the validation of the attachment and both are still ongoing. We are thankful to the Court which has acceded to AFRINIC?s request to have access to part of its funds so as to meet its vital expenses for the months of July and August 2021. As of today, all staff have been paid including those who did not receive their salaries for the month of July and the team is working on clearing all pending suppliers? invoices. Otherwise, we assure you that AFRINIC is robustly resisting all cases lodged against it. You may check the updated Summary of these cases . > > 3. Major changes on AFRINIC RPKI Environment > > On Tuesday 31 August 2021, AFRINIC made a major improvement in its RPKI infrastructure. We are delighted to announce to our community that critical RPKI operations now have an integration with Hardware Security Module (HSM). This is a major step for us in enhancing the security of the infrastructure as well as providing excellent services to our resource members and community. > > > 4. AFRINIC-34 Online > > AFRINIC-34 will take place virtually from November 15-18, 2021. We shall communicate the details on the registration and event program in due course. The importance of getting involved in these public meetings can not be overemphasised especially the rich content this meeting has to offer as well as the PDP sessions and discussions that we have in store. > > 5. Keeping the lights on > > We have been contacted by stakeholders in our community and beyond our region, expressing their interest in supporting us during these challenging times. Who would not appreciate some love and care from friends and family? I remain grateful to the Community at large for the immense support, word of wisdom and encouragement that we have received so far. We remain grateful! I wish to reiterate that AFRINIC is still providing stable services to our members and community. > > I wish you well as we pursue our common goals and aspirations. > > Kind Regards and keep safe navigating this pandemic, > > Eddy Kayihura > Chief Executive Officer, > African Network Information Centre (AFRINIC) > ceo at afrinic.net > > ????????????????????????????????????????? > > Chers membres, > > Cela fait un certain temps que je n'ai pas fait ma mise ? jour mensuelle habituelle. Je voudrais renouer avec cette habitude, m?me si je suis s?r que vous avez ?t? tenus au courant par d'autres canaux de communication. > > > > > > S?ances de Jenga AFRINIC avec les membres ressources > > > Jenga, qui signifie "construire" en Swahili, a pour but de renforcer les relations avec les membres qui d?tiennent des ressources d'AFRINIC en organisant des sessions d?di?es visant ? mettre en avant les services offerts par AFRINIC et ? recueillir les impressions et recommandations de nos membres. Au cours des derniers jours, l'?quipe AFRINIC s'est lanc?e dans l'ex?cution du projet Jenga avec nos membres. Au cours de ces sessions, nous avons expliqu? ? nos membres la situation actuelle et discut? des m?canismes d'att?nuation des risques mis en place pour assurer la continuit? des services malgr? le gel des comptes bancaires. La table ronde sur le Jenga a ?t? un succ?s et a ?t? document?e dans le blog d'AFRINIC . > > > > 2. Mises ? jour juridiques > > Comme vous le savez peut-?tre, nous avons r?cemment demand? l?annulation de l'ordonnance de saisie-arr?t ayant pour effet le gel de nos comptes bancaires. Notre demande d?annulation de l'ordonnance de saisie-arr?t est li?e ? l?affaire encore pendante de validation de cette saisie-arr?t. Nous sommes heureux que la cour ait acc?d? ? la demande d'AFRINIC d?avoir acc?s ? une partie de ses fonds afin de faire face ? ses d?penses vitales relatives aux mois de juillet et ao?t 2021. A ce jour, l'ensemble du personnel a ?t? pay?, y compris ceux qui n'avaient pas re?u leur salaire pour le mois de juillet et l'?quipe travaille afin de r?gler toutes les factures des fournisseurs en attente. Par ailleurs, nous vous assurons qu?AFRINIC r?siste fermement ? toutes les demandes judiciaires d?pos?es contre elle. Vous pouvez lire le r?sum? mis ? jour de ces cas . > > 3 Modifications importantes sur l'environnement RPKI d'AFRINIC > > Le mardi 31 ao?t 2021, AFRINIC a effectu? une importante avanc?e dans son infrastructure RPKI. Nous avons le plaisir d'annoncer ? notre communaut? que les op?rations critiques du RPKI sont d?sormais int?gr?es au Hardware Security Module (HSM). Il s'agit pour nous d'une ?tape majeure dans l'am?lioration de la s?curit? de l'infrastructure ainsi que dans la fourniture d'excellents services ? nos membres et ? notre communaut?. > > > 4. AFRINIC-34 en ligne > > AFRINIC-34 se tiendra virtuellement du 15 au 18 novembre 2021. Nous communiquerons les d?tails sur l'inscription et le programme de l'?v?nement ult?rieurement. On ne saurait trop insister sur l'importance de participer ? ces r?unions publiques, notamment tenant compte de la richesse du contenu de cette r?union ainsi que des sessions et discussions de politiques. > > > 5 Garder les lumi?res allum?es > > Nous avons ?t? contact?s par des membres de notre communaut? et au-del? de notre r?gion, exprimant leur int?r?t ? nous soutenir en ces temps difficiles. Qui n'appr?cierait pas un peu d'amour et d'attention de la part de ses amis et de sa famille ? Je reste reconnaissant ? nos membres et ? la communaut? dans son ensemble pour l'immense soutien en paroles de sagesse et d'encouragement que nous avons re?u jusqu'? pr?sent. Nous leur en sommes reconnaissants ! Je souhaite r?it?rer que l'AFRINIC continue ? fournir des services stables ? nos membres et ? la communaut?. > > Je vous souhaite bonne chance dans la poursuite de nos objectifs et aspirations communs. > > Bien ? vous, > > Eddy Kayihura > Directeur g?n?ral, > African Network Information Centre (AFRINIC) > ceo at afrinic.net > > ????????????????????????. > > ????? ??????? > ??? ?? ??? ????? ??? ??????? ?????? ??????? ???. ???? ?? ????? ??????? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ?? ???? ????? ?? ?????? ??? ????? ???? ?? ???? ????? ??????? ??????. > > ????? AFRINIC Jenga ?? ????? ??????? > ???? Jenga ???? ???? "????" ?????? ?????????? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ????? ??????? ???????? ?? ???? ????? ????? ????? ???? ??? ????? ????? ??? ??????? ???? ?????? AFRINIC ???? ????????? ????????? ?? ???????. ??? ???? ?????? ??????? ??????? ? ??? ???? AFRINIC ?? ????? Jenga ?? ????? ??????? ?????. ???? ??????? ? ????? ??????? ????? ?????? ??????? ????? ??????? ?? ??????? ??????? ??? ????? ??????? ??????? ?????? ??? ????? ?? ????? ???????? ????????. ???? ?????? ??????? ????????? ??? Jenga ????? ??? ??????? ?? ????? AFRINIC. > > ??????? ??????? > ??? ???? ? ?????? ???????? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? ?????? ?? ????? ?? ??? ? ????? ???? ??????? ??????? ?? ?????? AFRINIC ????????. ?? ??? ?? ??? ???????? ??? ??? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ? ????? ???? ????? ????? ??????? ???? ?????? ?? ??? ??? ????? ??????? ????? ?? ???? ????? ? ????? ???? ?? ?????? ???? ??? ??? AFRINIC ?????? ??? ??? ?? ??????? ?????? ??????? ??????? ????? ????? ?????? 2021. ???????? ?? ????? ? ?? ??? ????? ???? ???????? ??? ?? ??? ????? ????? ?? ?????? ??????? ???? ????? ? ??????? ?? ????? ??? ????? ???? ?????? ???????? ???????. ????? ??? ? ???? ?? ?? AFRINIC ????? ???? ???? ??????? ???????? ????. ????? ?????? ?? ?????? ?????? ???? ???????. > > 3. ??????? ?????? ?? ???? AFRINIC RPKI > ?? ??? ???????? 31 ????? 2021 ? ???? AFRINIC ?????? ???? ?? ?????? ??????? RPKI. ??? ?????? ??? ???? ???????? ?? ?????? RPKI ?????? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ???? ??????? (HSM). ??? ???? ?????? ??????? ??? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ??????? ???????? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ???????? ????????. > > AFRINIC-34 ??? ???? > ????? ????? AFRINIC-34 ??????? ?? ?????? ?? 15 ??? 18 ?????? 2021. ????? ?????? ???????? ???????? ??????? ??????? ?????? ?? ????? ???????. ?? ???? ???????? ?? ??????? ??? ????? ???????? ?? ??? ?????????? ?????? ???? ??????? ????? ???? ??? ?? ????? ??? ???????? ???????? ??? ????? PDP ?????????? ???? ?????? ?? ??????. > > > 5 ????? ??????? ????? > ??? ???? ??? ????? ?? ??????? ????? ??????? ? ??????? ?? ???????? ?????? ???? ??? ??????? ??????. ?? ??? ?? ???? ??? ???? ???????? ?? ???????? ????????? ?? ??? ?????? ???????? ???????? ??? ????? ?????? ????? ?????? ???????? ???? ???????? ??? ????. ??? ??????! ??? ?? ???? ?? AFRINIC ?? ???? ???? ????? ?????? ???????? ????????. > ????? ??? ?? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ??????? ????????? ????????. > > ???? ???????? > > ???? ???????? > ?????? ????????? > ?????? ???????? ???????? ?????? (AFRINIC) > ceo at afrinic.net > > > ???? > > Caros Membros, > > J? passou algum tempo sem a habitual actualiza??o mensal da minha parte. Gostaria de voltar a ligar o h?bito, embora esteja certo de que foram mantidos actualizados atrav?s de outros canais de comunica??o. > > > Sess?es AFRINIC Jenga com os Membros dos Recursos > > Jenga, que significa "Construir" em Sua?li, visa construir rela??es mais fortes com os detentores de recursos africanos atrav?s da organiza??o de sess?es dedicadas destinadas a destacar os servi?os oferecidos pela AFRINIC e a recolher feedback e recomenda??es dos nossos membros. Ao longo dos ?ltimos dias, a equipa AFRINIC embarcou na implementa??o de Jenga com os nossos membros de recursos. Durante as sess?es, explic?mos aos membros a situa??o actual e discutimos os mecanismos de mitiga??o de riscos que est?o em vigor para assegurar uma continua??o suave dos servi?os, apesar do congelamento das contas banc?rias. A mesa redonda sobre a Jenga foi um sucesso e foi documentada no Blog da AFRINIC. > > > 2. Actualiza??es legais > Como deve saber, solicit?mos recentemente a retirada da Ordem de Penhora Provis?ria existente ou, em alternativa, uma redu??o do montante de dinheiro congelado nas contas banc?rias AFRINIC. Embora o pedido de levantamento da Ordem de Penhora Provis?ria n?o tenha sido acedido, uma vez que est? ligado a outro caso substantivo de valida??o da referida ordem de penhora ainda em curso, agradecemos que o juiz tenha acedido ao pedido da AFRINIC para ter acesso a parte dos fundos de modo a fazer face ?s suas despesas vitais para os meses de Julho e Agosto de 2021. A partir de hoje, todo o pessoal foi pago incluindo aqueles que n?o receberam os seus sal?rios para o m?s de Julho e a equipa est? a trabalhar no apuramento de todas as facturas pendentes dos fornecedores. Caso contr?rio, asseguramos que a AFRINIC est? a resistir fortemente a todos os casos apresentados contra ela. Pode consultar o Resumo actualizado destes casos. > > > > > > 3. Principais altera??es no ambiente AFRINIC RPKI > > Na ter?a-feira 31 de Agosto de 2021, a AFRINIC fez uma grande melhoria na sua infra-estrutura RPKI. Temos orgulho em anunciar ? nossa comunidade que as opera??es cr?ticas da RPKI t?m agora uma integra??o com o Hardware Security Module (HSM ). Este ? um passo importante para n?s na melhoria da seguran?a da infra-estrutura, bem como na presta??o de excelentes servi?os aos nossos membros e comunidade. > > 4. AFRINIC-34 Online > > AFRINIC-34 ter? lugar praticamente de 15 a 18 de Novembro de 2021. Comunicaremos oportunamente os detalhes sobre a inscri??o e o programa do evento. A import?ncia de nos envolvermos nestas reuni?es p?blicas n?o pode ser sobrevalorizada, especialmente o rico conte?do que esta reuni?o tem para oferecer, bem como as sess?es e discuss?es do PDP que temos em m?os. > > > 5. Mantendo as luzes acesas > Fomos contactados por membros da nossa comunidade e fora da nossa regi?o, manifestando o seu interesse em nos apoiar durante estes tempos dif?ceis. Quem n?o apreciaria algum amor e carinho de amigos e familiares? Continuo grato aos nossos membros e ? Comunidade em geral pelo imenso apoio em palavras de sabedoria e encorajamento que temos recebido at? agora. Continuamos gratos! Gostaria de reiterar que a AFRINIC continua a prestar servi?os est?veis aos nossos membros e ? comunidade. > Desejo-vos as maiores felicidades na prossecu??o dos nossos objectivos e aspira??es comuns. > > Cordiais cumprimentos, > > Eddy Kayihura > Chefe do Executivo, > Centro de Informa??o da Rede Africana (AFRINIC) > ceo at afrinic.net > ????????????????.. > > > > -- > > Kind Regards > > Eddy Kayihura M. > Chief Executive Officer > AFRINIC Ltd. > ==== > t: +230 403 51 00 | tt: @afrinic | https://www.afrinic.net | youtube.com/afrinicmedia > ___________________________ > > Vision: ?A secure and accessible Internet for sustainable digital growth in Africa? > Mission: ?To serve the African Internet community by delivering efficient services in a global multi-stakeholder environment? > Values: EPIC (? Excellence ? Passion ? Integrity ? Community Driven) > > > ******************************************************************************************************************* > This email and any attachment (s) transmitted with it are confidential. They may also be privileged or otherwise protected by law. They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email by error please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and delete this e-mail from your system. You are also notified that disclosing, copying, distributing, or taking any action in relation to its contents is strictly prohibited and unlawful. By reading the message and opening any attachment, the recipient accepts full responsibility for taking protective and remedial action about viruses and other defects. > > ******************************************************************************************************************* > > > > _______________________________________________ > Members-Discuss mailing list > Members-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss -- Kind Regards Eddy Kayihura M. Chief Executive Officer AFRINIC Ltd. ==== t: +230 403 51 00 | tt: @afrinic | https://www.afrinic.net | youtube.com/afrinicmedia ___________________________ Vision: ?A secure and accessible Internet for sustainable digital growth in Africa? Mission: ?To serve the African Internet community by delivering efficient services in a global multi-stakeholder environment? Values: EPIC (? Excellence ? Passion ? Integrity ? Community Driven) ******************************************************************************************************************* This email and any attachment (s) transmitted with it are confidential. They may also be privileged or otherwise protected by law. They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email by error please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and delete this e-mail from your system. You are also notified that disclosing, copying, distributing, or taking any action in relation to its contents is strictly prohibited and unlawful. By reading the message and opening any attachment, the recipient accepts full responsibility for taking protective and remedial action about viruses and other defects. ******************************************************************************************************************* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark at tinka.africa Mon Sep 20 15:03:55 2021 From: mark at tinka.africa (Mark Tinka) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2021 17:03:55 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: [safnog] Reminder: SAFNOG-6 Virtual Conference In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <042fb616-c2ed-95f3-4fa6-9f51e89a77d9@tinka.africa> FYI. Mark. -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: [safnog] Reminder: SAFNOG-6 Virtual Conference Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2021 16:23:37 +0200 From: SAFNOG Conference To: safnog at lists.safnog.org Hello Everyone, SAFNOG-6 Virtual Conference is just one week away! This is a reminder to join us for SAFNOG's sixth?annual meeting, SAFNOG-6 Virtual Conference ?next week on the 27 and 28 September at 13h00 SAST/ 11h00 UTC. Don't miss this opportunity to engage with and learn from our industry experts such?as our *keynote speaker*, *Eddy Kayihura from AFRINIC.*? Visit https://safnog.org/virtual-meetings/agenda ?for the full agenda. We are grateful to our SAFNOG-6 sponsors, Akamai, FLEXOPTIX, Team Cymru, Africa Data Centres, Internet Society, Workonline, INX-ZA and NAPAfrica for their support. Register now: https://safnog.org/virtual-meetings/ Regards, SAFNOG OC -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From comms at afrinic.net Wed Sep 22 13:34:13 2021 From: comms at afrinic.net (AFRINIC Communication) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 17:34:13 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Registration for AFRINIC-34 Opens Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, It is with great pleasure that we inform you that registration for the AFRINIC-34 Online meeting is now open. AFRINIC-34 Online will take place from 15 - 18 November 2021 and will run from 9:00-13:00 UTC. You can now register online and check out more information about the Meeting on the AFRINIC-34 Online Website here>>https://meeting.afrinic.net/afrinic-34 AFRINIC-34 Online will take place on Meetecho which will be the Online Meeting platform. Please read more about the platform at: https://meeting.afrinic.net/afrinic-34/participate While registering you may choose to subscribe to the af34-announce at afrinic.net mailing list to receive meeting updates and engage with other AFRINIC-34 Online delegates meeting participants via the mailing list af34-discuss at afrinic.net We look forward to seeing you online soon for AFRINIC-34 Online. Kind Regards, The AFRINIC-34 Team ??????????.. Chers coll?gues, C'est avec un grand plaisir que nous vous informons que les inscriptions pour la r?union AFRINIC-34 Online sont maintenant ouvertes. AFRINIC-34 Online aura lieu du 15 au 18 novembre 2021 et se tiendra de 9:00 ? 13:00 UTC. Vous pouvez d?s ? pr?sent vous inscrire en ligne et avoir plus d'informations sur la r?union sur le site d'AFRINIC-34 ici>>https://meeting.afrinic.net/afrinic-34 . AFRINIC-34 Online se d?roulera sur Meetecho qui sera la plateforme de r?union en ligne. Pour en savoir plus sur cette plateforme, veuillez consulter le site https://meeting.afrinic.net/afrinic-34/participate . Lors de votre inscription, vous pouvez choisir de vous inscrire ? la liste de diffusion af34-announce at afrinic.net pour recevoir les mises ? jour de la r?union et ?changer avec les autres participants ? la r?union des d?l?gu?s AFRINIC-34 Online via la liste de diffusion af34-discuss at afrinic.net . Nous nous r?jouissons de vous voir bient?t en ligne pour AFRINIC-34 Online. Bien ? vous, L'?quipe d'AFRINIC-34 ???????????????.. ?????? ???????? ??? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ?????? ?? ??????? ?? ?????? AFRINIC-34 ??? ???????? ????? ????. ????? AFRINIC-34 Online ?? ?????? ?? 15 ??? 18 ?????? 2021 ?????? ?? 9:00 ??? 13:00 ???????? ??????? ??????. ????? ???? ??????? ??? ???????? ???????? ??? ???? ?? ????????? ??? ???????? ??? ???? AFRINIC-34 ??? ???????? ??? >> https://meeting.afrinic.net/afrinic-34 ????? AFRINIC-34 Online ??? Meetecho ???? ????? ???? ?????????? ??? ????????. ???? ????? ?????? ?? ?????? ???: https://meeting.afrinic.net/afrinic-34/participate ????? ??????? ? ????? ?????? ???????? ?? ??????? ???????? af34-announce at afrinic.net ????? ??????? ???????? ????????? ?? ????????? ??????? ?? ?????? ?????? AFRINIC-34 ??? ???????? ??? ??????? ???????? af34-discuss at afrinic.net ????? ??? ????? ??? ???????? ?????? ?? ??? AFRINIC-34 Online. ???? ???????? ???? AFRINIC-34 ???????????????????.. Caros Colegas, ? com grande prazer que vos informamos que a inscri??o para a reuni?o AFRINIC-34 Online est? agora aberta. AFRINIC-34 Online ter? lugar de 15 a 18 de Novembro de 2021 e decorrer? das 9:00 ?s 13:00 UTC. Pode agora registar-se online e consultar mais informa??es sobre a Reuni?o no s?tio web online AFRINIC-34 aqui>>https://meeting.afrinic.net/afrinic-34 AFRINIC-34 Online ter? lugar em Meetecho que ser? a plataforma da Reuni?o Online. Por favor, leia mais sobre a plataforma em: https://meeting.afrinic.net/afrinic-34/participate Ao registar-se pode optar por subscrever a lista de correio af34-announce at afrinic.net para receber actualiza??es da reuni?o e envolver-se com outros delegados de AFRINIC-34 Online que participam na reuni?o atrav?s da lista de correio af34-discuss at afrinic.net Esperamos v?-lo em breve online para AFRINIC-34 Online. Cumprimentos, A equipa AFRINIC-34 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Thu Sep 23 12:34:28 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 15:34:28 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society Message-ID: Hi Lu Heng A number of ISPs and Afrinic resource members across the region are receiving phone calls from your organisation called the number resource society. The people making the phone calls are mostly spreading misinformation about AFRINIC. I am calling you out specifically so that perhaps you as the patron of Larus which is affiliated with the Number Resource Society can address the motive behind this calls and emails that are being sent to various AFRINIC resource members scaring them that AFRINIC is closing down and they must join the so called Number Resource Society. Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From grace.i at ricta.org.rw Thu Sep 23 14:00:59 2021 From: grace.i at ricta.org.rw (Grace INGABIRE) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 16:00:59 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6B7C61B6-334D-418F-8E87-C2FFA2FECEBF@ricta.org.rw> Thanks Noah for informing us. > On 23 Sep 2021, at 14:34, Noah wrote: > > Hi Lu Heng > > A number of ISPs and Afrinic resource members across the region are receiving phone calls from your organisation called the number resource society. > > The people making the phone calls are mostly spreading misinformation about AFRINIC. > > I am calling you out specifically so that perhaps you as the patron of Larus which is affiliated with the Number Resource Society can address the motive behind this calls and emails that are being sent to various AFRINIC resource members scaring them that AFRINIC is closing down and they must join the so called Number Resource Society. > > Noah > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss From mark at tinka.africa Thu Sep 23 14:59:19 2021 From: mark at tinka.africa (Mark Tinka) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 16:59:19 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <83dacfd9-124d-9e42-fbca-00b4baf2000e@tinka.africa> On 9/23/21 14:34, Noah wrote: > Hi Lu Heng > > A number of ISPs and Afrinic resource members across the region are > receiving phone calls from your organisation called the number > resource society. > > The people making the phone calls are mostly spreading misinformation > about AFRINIC. > > I am calling you out specifically so that perhaps you as the patron of > Larus which is affiliated with the Number Resource Society can address > the motive behind this calls and emails that are being sent to various > AFRINIC resource members scaring them that AFRINIC is closing down and > they must join the so called Number Resource Society. I have been pestered, twice in the past week, as per attached. Despite just sending these to the bin, I am disgusted. Hopefully, Larus and them are on this list, so they know that I can't be asked. Mark. -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Harvin Appadoo Subject: Re: IPv4 Address Proposal - LARUS/SEACOM Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 11:03:29 +0400 Size: 32808 URL: From isabel.odida at gmail.com Thu Sep 23 15:14:55 2021 From: isabel.odida at gmail.com (Isabel Odida) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 18:14:55 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: <83dacfd9-124d-9e42-fbca-00b4baf2000e@tinka.africa> References: <83dacfd9-124d-9e42-fbca-00b4baf2000e@tinka.africa> Message-ID: Thank you Noah! This is just so messy of them. Sent from my iPhone > On 23 Sep 2021, at 18:00, Mark Tinka wrote: > > ? > >> On 9/23/21 14:34, Noah wrote: >> >> Hi Lu Heng >> >> A number of ISPs and Afrinic resource members across the region are receiving phone calls from your organisation called the number resource society. >> >> The people making the phone calls are mostly spreading misinformation about AFRINIC. >> >> I am calling you out specifically so that perhaps you as the patron of Larus which is affiliated with the Number Resource Society can address the motive behind this calls and emails that are being sent to various AFRINIC resource members scaring them that AFRINIC is closing down and they must join the so called Number Resource Society. > > I have been pestered, twice in the past week, as per attached. > > Despite just sending these to the bin, I am disgusted. > > Hopefully, Larus and them are on this list, so they know that I can't be asked. > > Mark. > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss From nkukard at LBSD.net Thu Sep 23 15:41:20 2021 From: nkukard at LBSD.net (Nigel Kukard) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 15:41:20 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: <83dacfd9-124d-9e42-fbca-00b4baf2000e@tinka.africa> References: <83dacfd9-124d-9e42-fbca-00b4baf2000e@tinka.africa> Message-ID: <1d0be25e-096b-b667-545b-0c624b9f700d@LBSD.net> On 9/23/21 14:59, Mark Tinka wrote: > > > On 9/23/21 14:34, Noah wrote: > >> Hi Lu Heng >> >> A number of ISPs and Afrinic resource members across the region are >> receiving phone calls from your organisation called the number >> resource society. >> >> The people making the phone calls are mostly spreading misinformation >> about AFRINIC. >> >> I am calling you out specifically so that perhaps you as the patron >> of Larus which is affiliated with the Number Resource Society can >> address the motive behind this calls and emails that are being sent >> to various AFRINIC resource members scaring them that AFRINIC is >> closing down and they must join the so called Number Resource Society. > > I have been pestered, twice in the past week, as per attached. > > Despite just sending these to the bin, I am disgusted. > > Hopefully, Larus and them are on this list, so they know that I can't > be asked. Yep .... attached another one. -N -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: THOBEJANE LETHABPO Subject: Meeting Request Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 17:22:34 +0200 Size: 104014 URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: NRS Data.docx Type: application/vnd.openxmlformats-officedocument.wordprocessingml.document Size: 27085 bytes Desc: not available URL: From owen at delong.com Thu Sep 23 16:09:03 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 09:09:03 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On Sep 23, 2021, at 05:34 , Noah wrote: > > Hi Lu Heng > > A number of ISPs and Afrinic resource members across the region are receiving phone calls from your organisation called the number resource society. > > The people making the phone calls are mostly spreading misinformation about AFRINIC. Care to be specific about what you are referring to as misinformation? > I am calling you out specifically so that perhaps you as the patron of Larus which is affiliated with the Number Resource Society can address the motive behind this calls and emails that are being sent to various AFRINIC resource members scaring them that AFRINIC is closing down and they must join the so called Number Resource Society. Speaking of misinformation, I don?t think this is an accurate portrayal of what is being said by the NRS. Owen From owen at delong.com Thu Sep 23 16:17:36 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 09:17:36 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: <83dacfd9-124d-9e42-fbca-00b4baf2000e@tinka.africa> References: <83dacfd9-124d-9e42-fbca-00b4baf2000e@tinka.africa> Message-ID: IMHO, that shouldn?t be happening and I?ll do what I can to have a stop put to it. Owen > On Sep 23, 2021, at 07:59 , Mark Tinka wrote: > > > > On 9/23/21 14:34, Noah wrote: > >> Hi Lu Heng >> >> A number of ISPs and Afrinic resource members across the region are receiving phone calls from your organisation called the number resource society. >> >> The people making the phone calls are mostly spreading misinformation about AFRINIC. >> >> I am calling you out specifically so that perhaps you as the patron of Larus which is affiliated with the Number Resource Society can address the motive behind this calls and emails that are being sent to various AFRINIC resource members scaring them that AFRINIC is closing down and they must join the so called Number Resource Society. > > I have been pestered, twice in the past week, as per attached. > > Despite just sending these to the bin, I am disgusted. > > Hopefully, Larus and them are on this list, so they know that I can't be asked. > > Mark. > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss From rameez.chetty at gmail.com Thu Sep 23 16:18:42 2021 From: rameez.chetty at gmail.com (Cheken Chetty) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 18:18:42 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Noah I believe this to be a bit distasteful, in my opinion Lu doesn't need to respond to such statements just by pure affiliation. There is also the fact that these are mere statements lacking evidence. It could be an attempt to create tension and show the Number Resource Society in a bad light. Even me as an individual has seen that the NRS protects the interests of resource members. All in all, I believe that Lu doesn't need to concern himself with this. Cheken On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 2:35 PM Noah wrote: > Hi Lu Heng > > A number of ISPs and Afrinic resource members across the region are > receiving phone calls from your organisation called the number resource > society. > > The people making the phone calls are mostly spreading misinformation > about AFRINIC. > > I am calling you out specifically so that perhaps you as the patron of > Larus which is affiliated with the Number Resource Society can address the > motive behind this calls and emails that are being sent to various AFRINIC > resource members scaring them that AFRINIC is closing down and they must > join the so called Number Resource Society. > > Noah > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark at tinka.africa Thu Sep 23 18:32:43 2021 From: mark at tinka.africa (Mark Tinka) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 20:32:43 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: <1d0be25e-096b-b667-545b-0c624b9f700d@LBSD.net> References: <83dacfd9-124d-9e42-fbca-00b4baf2000e@tinka.africa> <1d0be25e-096b-b667-545b-0c624b9f700d@LBSD.net> Message-ID: <3e721da1-ede1-ee79-a9d6-2adc41d4b6fb@tinka.africa> Even though I do, I have no words... Mark. On 9/23/21 17:41, Nigel Kukard via Community-Discuss wrote: > On 9/23/21 14:59, Mark Tinka wrote: >> >> On 9/23/21 14:34, Noah wrote: >> >>> Hi Lu Heng >>> >>> A number of ISPs and Afrinic resource members across the region are >>> receiving phone calls from your organisation called the number >>> resource society. >>> >>> The people making the phone calls are mostly spreading misinformation >>> about AFRINIC. >>> >>> I am calling you out specifically so that perhaps you as the patron >>> of Larus which is affiliated with the Number Resource Society can >>> address the motive behind this calls and emails that are being sent >>> to various AFRINIC resource members scaring them that AFRINIC is >>> closing down and they must join the so called Number Resource Society. >> I have been pestered, twice in the past week, as per attached. >> >> Despite just sending these to the bin, I am disgusted. >> >> Hopefully, Larus and them are on this list, so they know that I can't >> be asked. > > Yep .... attached another one. > > -N > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rfg at tristatelogic.com Thu Sep 23 18:55:15 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 11:55:15 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <91980.1632423315@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In message , Noah wrote: > I am calling you out specifically so that perhaps you as the patron of >Larus which is affiliated with the Number Resource Society can address >the motive behind this calls and emails that are being sent to various >AFRINIC resource members scaring them that AFRINIC is closing down and >they must join the so called Number Resource Society. Owen wrote: >Speaking of misinformation, I don't think this is an accurate portrayal >of what is being said by the NRS. Owen, take some free advice. Stop saying stupid stuff. You don't have a lot of credibility left to lose, but its just a waste of bandwidth to say stuff that can so easily be disproven. The following was already posted here as being part of a message sent by a Larus minion: >? What will happen if AFRINIC loses the lawsuit and finds itself 50 million USD in debt? > >? Will the African internet be disrupted? > >? Who will take care of the sustainability of the current operation of the African Internet Registry? > >? How can the resource members save their operations by transferring their resources elsewhere? That's a blatant and obvious attempt to scare people, and to spread FUD. Regards, rfg From rfg at tristatelogic.com Thu Sep 23 19:00:42 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 12:00:42 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <92030.1632423642@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In message Cheken Chetty wrote: >I believe this to be a bit distasteful, in my opinion Lu doesn't need to >respond to such statements just by pure affiliation. There is also the fact >that these are mere statements lacking evidence. It could be an attempt to >create tension and show the Number Resource Society in a bad light. Even me >as an individual has seen that the NRS protects the interests of resource >members. All in all, I believe that Lu doesn't need to concern himself with >this. Yet another anonymous gmail sock puppet, spewing the Lu Heng party line. Swell. Just what we needed. Go away now Mr. Cheken Chetty. Please crawl back into whatever hole Lu Heng conjured you out of. Nobody is impressed. Regards, rfg From owen at delong.com Thu Sep 23 19:03:31 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2021 12:03:31 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: <91980.1632423315@segfault.tristatelogic.com> References: <91980.1632423315@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: > On Sep 23, 2021, at 11:55 , Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: > > In message , > Noah wrote: > >> I am calling you out specifically so that perhaps you as the patron of >> Larus which is affiliated with the Number Resource Society can address >> the motive behind this calls and emails that are being sent to various >> AFRINIC resource members scaring them that AFRINIC is closing down and >> they must join the so called Number Resource Society. > > Owen wrote: > >> Speaking of misinformation, I don't think this is an accurate portrayal >> of what is being said by the NRS. > > > Owen, take some free advice. Stop saying stupid stuff. You don't have > a lot of credibility left to lose, but its just a waste of bandwidth to > say stuff that can so easily be disproven. The following was already > posted here as being part of a message sent by a Larus minion: > > >> ? What will happen if AFRINIC loses the lawsuit and finds itself 50 million USD in debt? That?s a valid question and not misinformation. >> ? Will the African internet be disrupted? Another valid question and not misinformation. >> ? Who will take care of the sustainability of the current operation of the African Internet Registry? Another valid question and not misinformation. >> ? How can the resource members save their operations by transferring their resources elsewhere? This is a valid question. You can call it FUD if you want, but it?s a legitimate question under the current circumstances. Calling it misinformation is, in fact, misinformation. Calling it FUD may have some legitimacy, but FUD is a relatively common practice throughout modern society, So? You claim my statement can easily be disproven, yet you do not disprove it (or even come close). The NRS document isn?t what I would have written and I think it?s a very poorly designed campaign and utterly counter-productive to the goals of the NRS. However, it doesn?t contain anything I can point to and call misinformation. It doesn?t claim that AFRINIC is closing down. It asks questions. Yes, the questions can be scary, but each and every question asked is a very real possible outcome of the current litigation AFRINIC has brought upon itself by making false allegations of contractual breaches and purporting policies and bylaws to contain requirements that are not present in the documents cited. > That's a blatant and obvious attempt to scare people, and to spread FUD. It?s a set of perfectly legitimate questions and an offer of membership in an organization intent on resisting the problems created by the current AFRINIC leadership through a variety of means. Not significantly different from the recruiting tactics of any political party in America (I don?t know how political parties recruit in Africa, so I can?t comment meaningfully on the similarity or difference there). Owen From noah at neo.co.tz Thu Sep 23 21:41:06 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2021 00:41:06 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Sep 2021, 19:09 Owen DeLong, wrote: > > > > On Sep 23, 2021, at 05:34 , Noah wrote: > > > > Hi Lu Heng > > > > A number of ISPs and Afrinic resource members across the region are > receiving phone calls from your organisation called the number resource > society. > > > > The people making the phone calls are mostly spreading misinformation > about AFRINIC. > > Care to be specific about what you are referring to as misinformation? > > > I am calling you out specifically so that perhaps you as the patron of > Larus which is affiliated with the Number Resource Society can address the > motive behind this calls and emails that are being sent to various AFRINIC > resource members scaring them that AFRINIC is closing down and they must > join the so called Number Resource Society. > > Speaking of misinformation, I don?t think this is an accurate portrayal of > what is being said by the NRS. > Owen, Are you Lu Heng? I am addressing Lu Heng and he knows exactly what I am talking about. Let Lu Heng ask and I will perfectly and accurately backup my claim about the misinformation he is employing through his Number Resource Society beyond just those subtle emails his staff are sending to members. Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Thu Sep 23 21:42:31 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2021 00:42:31 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Cheken Chetty, On Thu, 23 Sep 2021, 19:18 Cheken Chetty, wrote: > Hi Noah > I believe this to be a bit distasteful, in my opinion Lu doesn't need to > respond to such statements just by pure affiliation. There is also the fact > that these are mere statements lacking evidence. It could be an attempt to > create tension and show the Number Resource Society in a bad light. Even me > as an individual has seen that the NRS protects the interests of resource > members. All in all, I believe that Lu doesn't need to concern himself with > this. > You are so clueless and ignorant. Noah > Cheken > > On Thu, Sep 23, 2021 at 2:35 PM Noah wrote: > >> Hi Lu Heng >> >> A number of ISPs and Afrinic resource members across the region are >> receiving phone calls from your organisation called the number resource >> society. >> >> The people making the phone calls are mostly spreading misinformation >> about AFRINIC. >> >> I am calling you out specifically so that perhaps you as the patron of >> Larus which is affiliated with the Number Resource Society can address the >> motive behind this calls and emails that are being sent to various AFRINIC >> resource members scaring them that AFRINIC is closing down and they must >> join the so called Number Resource Society. >> >> Noah >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark at tinka.africa Fri Sep 24 05:08:30 2021 From: mark at tinka.africa (Mark Tinka) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2021 07:08:30 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: <92030.1632423642@segfault.tristatelogic.com> References: <92030.1632423642@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: <337ed574-e8c0-522e-88c0-405754cfb41b@tinka.africa> On 9/23/21 21:00, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: > Yet another anonymous gmail sock puppet, spewing the Lu Heng party line. > > Swell. Just what we needed. > > Go away now Mr. Cheken Chetty. Please crawl back into whatever hole Lu Heng > conjured you out of. Nobody is impressed. It's a pity Lu Heng is unable to speak, for himself. Or is it? Mark. From mark at tinka.africa Fri Sep 24 05:12:19 2021 From: mark at tinka.africa (Mark Tinka) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2021 07:12:19 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 9/23/21 23:41, Noah wrote: > Owen, > > Are you Lu Heng? I am addressing Lu Heng and he knows exactly what I > am?talking about. > > Let Lu Heng ask and I will perfectly and accurately backup my claim > about the misinformation he is employing through his Number Resource > Society beyond just those subtle emails his staff are sending to members. The day will come, when these actors will find themselves out in the cold, needing shelter and cloth from "their fellow" brothers and sisters. As my Grade 6 English teacher taught me, in constructing future perfect tenses, "It will have been a very cold day, indeed". Mark. From mark at tinka.africa Fri Sep 24 05:32:50 2021 From: mark at tinka.africa (Mark Tinka) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2021 07:32:50 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: <91980.1632423315@segfault.tristatelogic.com> References: <91980.1632423315@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: <52535e43-9af6-05e4-d585-d9007af3b362@tinka.africa> On 9/23/21 20:55, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: > Owen, take some free advice. Stop saying stupid stuff. You don't have > a lot of credibility left to lose, but its just a waste of bandwidth to > say stuff that can so easily be disproven. The following was already > posted here as being part of a message sent by a Larus minion: > > > That's a blatant and obvious attempt to scare people, and to spread FUD. When you work with (and sit behind) computers long enough, more so in a year where we haven't seen each other due to what we all know, it's not unusual for one to develop a god-like complex, and equate people, their intellect, soul and mind, to the way in which they interact with those very same computers. It's great to be "logical" and "sensible", but people, for better or worse, have never been, and will never be, that binary. As you say, there isn't any trust capital left to lose. I would say, "there isn't any trust capital left, period". When all this dust settles and the trees have shaken all their leaves, it will be a world of pain, because all of the good people of the Internet who are being reduced to binary equations by all of this time-wasting, degrading, livelihood-risking actions, will have memories the length of the Nile. Mark. From rameez.chetty at gmail.com Fri Sep 24 09:07:22 2021 From: rameez.chetty at gmail.com (Cheken Chetty) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2021 11:07:22 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: <92030.1632423642@segfault.tristatelogic.com> References: <92030.1632423642@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: I find this quite offensive given I was just stating an opinion. I also believe the manner which are are carrying on in is against the code of conduct, there was a more mature and respectful way to reply to what I said. Cheken On Thu, 23 Sep 2021, 21:01 Ronald F. Guilmette, wrote: > In message < > CAMod5rqd2KGbhOtUH7XqtyA_MMu9sBmcRzjokQTyjPb_uws_AQ at mail.gmail.com> > Cheken Chetty wrote: > > >I believe this to be a bit distasteful, in my opinion Lu doesn't need to > >respond to such statements just by pure affiliation. There is also the > fact > >that these are mere statements lacking evidence. It could be an attempt to > >create tension and show the Number Resource Society in a bad light. Even > me > >as an individual has seen that the NRS protects the interests of resource > >members. All in all, I believe that Lu doesn't need to concern himself > with > >this. > > Yet another anonymous gmail sock puppet, spewing the Lu Heng party line. > > Swell. Just what we needed. > > Go away now Mr. Cheken Chetty. Please crawl back into whatever hole Lu > Heng > conjured you out of. Nobody is impressed. > > > Regards, > rfg > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Fri Sep 24 09:29:03 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2021 12:29:03 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: References: <92030.1632423642@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 24 Sep 2021, 12:12 Cheken Chetty, wrote: > I find this quite offensive given I was just stating an opinion. > But you sounded like a newly recruited Lu Heng mouth piece in your earlier post. I also believe the manner which are are carrying on in is against the code > of conduct, there was a more mature and respectful way to reply to what I > said. > Introduce yourself otherwise nothing to see here. Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmanyaapeloolerato at gmail.com Fri Sep 24 09:39:12 2021 From: mmanyaapeloolerato at gmail.com (Olerato Manyaapelo) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2021 11:39:12 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: References: <92030.1632423642@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: Dear Noah . After doing some research, what I can see is that the NRS is not trying to portray a bad image of AFRINIC. Their motives and goals as an NGO look pretty logical and not harmful in any way. I?m not sure if this is a personal vendetta or whether you want to put the NRS into dispute with AFRINIC and create unnecessary chaos, but I personally do not quite get the misinformation you are talking about. On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 at 11:31, Noah wrote: > > > On Fri, 24 Sep 2021, 12:12 Cheken Chetty, wrote: > >> I find this quite offensive given I was just stating an opinion. >> > > > But you sounded like a newly recruited Lu Heng mouth piece in your earlier > post. > > > I also believe the manner which are are carrying on in is against the code >> of conduct, there was a more mature and respectful way to reply to what I >> said. >> > > Introduce yourself otherwise nothing to see here. > > Noah > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -- C.O Manyaapelo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Fri Sep 24 09:53:28 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2021 12:53:28 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: References: <92030.1632423642@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 24 Sep 2021, 12:39 Olerato Manyaapelo, wrote: > Dear Noah . > > After doing some research, what I can see is that the NRS is not trying to > portray a bad image of AFRINIC. Their motives and goals as an NGO look > pretty logical and not harmful in any way. I?m not sure if this is a > personal vendetta or whether you want to put the NRS into dispute with > AFRINIC and create unnecessary chaos, but I personally do not quite get the > misinformation you are talking about. > Are you another Lu Heng recruit? Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From edd at edd.za.net Fri Sep 24 17:52:40 2021 From: edd at edd.za.net (Edrich de Lange) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2021 19:52:40 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: References: <92030.1632423642@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: <1F4C516A-EDF2-4D7A-930D-F8820F7F84C2@edd.za.net> Hi there! Do you perhaps want to share your ?research?? And how is this ?research? influenced by your affiliation with Larus? Or are you not affiliated with them? Kind regards Edd On 24 Sep 2021, at 11:39, Olerato Manyaapelo wrote: > Dear Noah . > > After doing some research, what I can see is that the NRS is not trying to > portray a bad image of AFRINIC. Their motives and goals as an NGO look > pretty logical and not harmful in any way. I?m not sure if this is a > personal vendetta or whether you want to put the NRS into dispute with > AFRINIC and create unnecessary chaos, but I personally do not quite get the > misinformation you are talking about. > > On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 at 11:31, Noah wrote: > >> >> >> On Fri, 24 Sep 2021, 12:12 Cheken Chetty, wrote: >> >>> I find this quite offensive given I was just stating an opinion. >>> >> >> >> But you sounded like a newly recruited Lu Heng mouth piece in your earlier >> post. >> >> >> I also believe the manner which are are carrying on in is against the code >>> of conduct, there was a more mature and respectful way to reply to what I >>> said. >>> >> >> Introduce yourself otherwise nothing to see here. >> >> Noah >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > -- > C.O Manyaapelo > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 854 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From owen at delong.com Sat Sep 25 00:27:25 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2021 17:27:25 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: References: <92030.1632423642@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: List administrators, are we really going to tolerate Noah calling everyone who disagrees with him a ?Lu Heng recruit? or similar? Noah, contrary to what you?d like to have everyone believe, there are people who disagree with you who have nothing to do with Lue Heng. Owen > On Sep 24, 2021, at 2:53 AM, Noah wrote: > > > > On Fri, 24 Sep 2021, 12:39 Olerato Manyaapelo, > wrote: > Dear Noah . > > After doing some research, what I can see is that the NRS is not trying to portray a bad image of AFRINIC. Their motives and goals as an NGO look pretty logical and not harmful in any way. I?m not sure if this is a personal vendetta or whether you want to put the NRS into dispute with AFRINIC and create unnecessary chaos, but I personally do not quite get the misinformation you are talking about. > > > Are you another Lu Heng recruit? > > Noah > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From siyuan at misaka.io Sat Sep 25 00:42:47 2021 From: siyuan at misaka.io (Siyuan Miao) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 08:42:47 +0800 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: References: <92030.1632423642@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: Hi Owen, Could you try Google before sending anything out? Keyword: LARUS "Olerato Manyaapelo" [image: image.png] Keyword: LARUS "Cheken Chetty" [image: image.png] On Sat, Sep 25, 2021 at 8:32 AM Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss < community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > List administrators, are we really going to tolerate Noah calling everyone > who disagrees with him a ?Lu Heng recruit? or similar? > > Noah, contrary to what you?d like to have everyone believe, there are > people who disagree with you who have nothing to do with Lue Heng. > > Owen > > > On Sep 24, 2021, at 2:53 AM, Noah wrote: > > > > On Fri, 24 Sep 2021, 12:39 Olerato Manyaapelo, < > mmanyaapeloolerato at gmail.com> wrote: > >> Dear Noah . >> >> After doing some research, what I can see is that the NRS is not trying >> to portray a bad image of AFRINIC. Their motives and goals as an NGO look >> pretty logical and not harmful in any way. I?m not sure if this is a >> personal vendetta or whether you want to put the NRS into dispute with >> AFRINIC and create unnecessary chaos, but I personally do not quite get the >> misinformation you are talking about. >> > > > Are you another Lu Heng recruit? > > Noah > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 75767 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image.png Type: image/png Size: 62710 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rfg at tristatelogic.com Sat Sep 25 01:49:55 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2021 18:49:55 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <98556.1632534595@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In message , Owen DeLong wrote: >Noah, contrary to what you'd like to have everyone believe, >there are people who disagree with you who have nothing to do with Lue Heng. Name three. From noah at neo.co.tz Sat Sep 25 09:23:53 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 12:23:53 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: References: <92030.1632423642@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 25 Sep 2021, 03:27 Owen DeLong, wrote: > List administrators, are we really going to tolerate Noah calling everyone > who disagrees with him a ?Lu Heng recruit? or similar? > Owen, I didnt know you as one who lacks backbone even though its typical of all Lu Heng stooges to cry for CoC whenever you guys are corned. > Noah, contrary to what you?d like to have everyone believe, there are > people who disagree with you who have nothing to do with Lue Heng. > Well Siyuan Miao through a simple G-lookup has already confirmed that Cheken and Olerato are your colleagues and both are indeed associated with Lu Heng thereby confirming my earlier assumption. Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Sat Sep 25 10:14:58 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 13:14:58 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: References: <91980.1632423315@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Sep 2021, 22:10 Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss, < community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > > > > On Sep 23, 2021, at 11:55 , Ronald F. Guilmette > wrote: > > > Owen, take some free advice. Stop saying stupid stuff. You don't have > > a lot of credibility left to lose, but its just a waste of bandwidth to > > say stuff that can so easily be disproven. The following was already > > posted here as being part of a message sent by a Larus minion: > > > > > >> ? What will happen if AFRINIC loses the lawsuit and finds itself 50 > million USD in debt? > > That?s a valid question and not misinformation. > > >> ? Will the African internet be disrupted? > > Another valid question and not misinformation. > > >> ? Who will take care of the sustainability of the current operation of > the African Internet Registry? > > Another valid question and not misinformation. > > >> ? How can the resource members save their operations by transferring > their resources elsewhere? > Owen, The questions from NRS are tactical and intended to spew doubt and uncertainty among a handful of AFRINIC resource members who are unfortunately ignorant about matters AFRINIC. Why does Lu Heng who is suing care of AFRINIC looses in court. I thought that is exactly what Lu Heng wants. So why does he care? Why does Lu Heng care if the Africa Internet gets disrupted. Who went to court first? Anyway, Last I checked, Lu Heng customers are not in Africa since public data shows a handful of them are mostly in China and USA. So this is classic Lu Heng. He will use CIL, Larus Ltd, Larus Foundation and his Number Resource Society aka NRS tactically to advance whatever new false narrative he wishes to spread inline with his deeply rooted beliefs that RIR are just book keepers. He confuses Larus Ltd which is the book keeper for an RIR. You see, Lu does not care about any of the AFRINIC resource members he is currently targeting in his new subtle campaign of attempting to recruit a couple of AFRINIC resource members to his hongkong based NRS to his own benefit. All those questions are intended for a purpose. To cast doubt among some resource members who do not actually have a clue what is going on. The ones who pay membership fees each year and are not necessary involved with AFRINIC matters perhaps due to limited outreach by the administration at AFRINIC to its own members. Those message are misinformation crafted by desperate Lu Heng. You see if there is something he know best, is his attempts to abuse existing processes. ARIN CEO, did confirm this to be true when Lu went to ARIN asking for IPv4 and they rejected his applications until he came to AFRINIC service region where unfortunately, he managed to game the system. The Larus foundation for a couple of years literary rendered the AFRINIC PDP hopeless with its so called Fellows (mostly university students) who were literary paid up mercenaries after all those stipends where not for free. We know most of the actors. I mean, Cloud Innovation Ltd is literary abusing the mauritian legal system. Who the heck goes to court with 12 cases, I mean 12 law suits against an single member-baded not-for profit entity. Good for Appleby though, suits are not served freely. https://afrinic.net/court-cases Now you have this so called Number Resource Society nrs.help attempting to recruit AFRINIC resource members to the Lu Heng train. This is about Lu defending his personal interest as a typical dishonest individual he has been since 2014 when he lied that he would be investing in AFRICA and use the millions of IPs in AFRICA. I despise liars especially those who take the rest of Africa for fools. While most AFRINIC resource members may not realise it, but its we resource members who are being sued. Who is AFRINIC? Or What is AFRINIC? Is it the staff employed by AFRINIC ? Is it the registered directors? or is it the over 1800 resource members serving the wider African Internet community? In one of the suits, Lu Heng wants a purported 1.8 billion and some 50 Million from AFRINIC? He basically wants our hard earned money which we have contributed for over 20 years through annual membership fees that this guy wants to rip us off. How much has Lu Heng contributed to AFRINIC since the dude showed up in 2013? What has he done for our region that any soul can admire him for beyond his fake PR stunts in terms of sponsorships which he calls investment. Resource members and the community needs to be woke and not fall into his manipulations. The Number Resource Society is fake Lu Heng Project. Dont fall for it. The community and PDWG should stay woke as well. The Larus Foundation is another Fake Lu Heng Project. Dont fall for it and its so called ambassadors. LARUS Ltd will continue to send you email promising to sell you IPv4 or lease your IPv4 while promising you wealth. Its another Lu Heng Project. Dont fall for it. To those who need some IPv4, AFRINIC still has IPv4 thought limited, reach out to them instead. Plan also your IPv6 deployments. Talk to your LIR as well and be alert when emails are sent to you promising you IPv4 and richness. I am calling out Lu Heng as an internet community member and a resource member. So unless you are Lu Heng, please stay out of this. Cheers, Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From omo.oaiya at wacren.net Sat Sep 25 10:23:15 2021 From: omo.oaiya at wacren.net (Omo Oaiya) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 11:23:15 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: References: <91980.1632423315@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: > On 25 Sep 2021, at 11:14, Noah wrote: > > > > On Thu, 23 Sep 2021, 22:10 Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss, > wrote: > > > > On Sep 23, 2021, at 11:55 , Ronald F. Guilmette > wrote: > > > Owen, take some free advice. Stop saying stupid stuff. You don't have > > a lot of credibility left to lose, but its just a waste of bandwidth to > > say stuff that can so easily be disproven. The following was already > > posted here as being part of a message sent by a Larus minion: > > > > > >> ? What will happen if AFRINIC loses the lawsuit and finds itself 50 million USD in debt? > > That?s a valid question and not misinformation. > > >> ? Will the African internet be disrupted? > > Another valid question and not misinformation. > > >> ? Who will take care of the sustainability of the current operation of the African Internet Registry? > > Another valid question and not misinformation. > > >> ? How can the resource members save their operations by transferring their resources elsewhere? > > > Owen, > > The questions from NRS are tactical and intended to spew doubt and uncertainty among a handful of AFRINIC resource members who are unfortunately ignorant about matters AFRINIC. > > Why does Lu Heng who is suing care of AFRINIC looses in court. I thought that is exactly what Lu Heng wants. So why does he care? > > Why does Lu Heng care if the Africa Internet gets disrupted. Who went to court first? Anyway, Last I checked, Lu Heng customers are not in Africa since public data shows a handful of them are mostly in China and USA. > > So this is classic Lu Heng. He will use CIL, Larus Ltd, Larus Foundation and his Number Resource Society aka NRS tactically to advance whatever new false narrative he wishes to spread inline with his deeply rooted beliefs that RIR are just book keepers. He confuses Larus Ltd which is the book keeper for an RIR. > > You see, Lu does not care about any of the AFRINIC resource members he is currently targeting in his new subtle campaign of attempting to recruit a couple of AFRINIC resource members to his hongkong based NRS to his own benefit. > > All those questions are intended for a purpose. To cast doubt among some resource members who do not actually have a clue what is going on. The ones who pay membership fees each year and are not necessary involved with AFRINIC matters perhaps due to limited outreach by the administration at AFRINIC to its own members. > > > Those message are misinformation crafted by desperate Lu Heng. You see if there is something he know best, is his attempts to abuse existing processes. ARIN CEO, did confirm this to be true when Lu went to ARIN asking for IPv4 and they rejected his applications until he came to AFRINIC service region where unfortunately, he managed to game the system. > > The Larus foundation for a couple of years literary rendered the AFRINIC PDP hopeless with its so called Fellows (mostly university students) who were literary paid up mercenaries after all those stipends where not for free. We know most of the actors. > > I mean, Cloud Innovation Ltd is literary abusing the mauritian legal system. Who the heck goes to court with 12 cases, I mean 12 law suits against an single member-baded not-for profit entity. Good for Appleby though, suits are not served freely. > > https://afrinic.net/court-cases > > Now you have this so called Number Resource Society nrs.help attempting to recruit AFRINIC resource members to the Lu Heng train. This is about Lu defending his personal interest as a typical dishonest individual he has been since 2014 when he lied that he would be investing in AFRICA and use the millions of IPs in AFRICA. I despise liars especially those who take the rest of Africa for fools. > > While most AFRINIC resource members may not realise it, but its we resource members who are being sued. > > Who is AFRINIC? Or What is AFRINIC? Is it the staff employed by AFRINIC ? Is it the registered directors? or is it the over 1800 resource members serving the wider African Internet community? > > In one of the suits, Lu Heng wants a purported 1.8 billion and some 50 Million from AFRINIC? He basically wants our hard earned money which we have contributed for over 20 years through annual membership fees that this guy wants to rip us off. > > How much has Lu Heng contributed to AFRINIC since the dude showed up in 2013? > > What has he done for our region that any soul can admire him for beyond his fake PR stunts in terms of sponsorships which he calls investment. > > Resource members and the community needs to be woke and not fall into his manipulations. > The Number Resource Society is fake Lu Heng Project. Dont fall for it. > > The community and PDWG should stay woke as well. The Larus Foundation is another Fake Lu Heng Project. Dont fall for it and its so called ambassadors. > > LARUS Ltd will continue to send you email promising to sell you IPv4 or lease your IPv4 while promising you wealth. Its another Lu Heng Project. Dont fall for it. > > > To those who need some IPv4, AFRINIC still has IPv4 thought limited, reach out to them instead. Plan also your IPv6 deployments. Talk to your LIR as well and be alert when emails are sent to you promising you IPv4 and richness. > > I am calling out Lu Heng as an internet community member and a resource member. So unless you are Lu Heng, please stay out of this. Noah, Do you think Owen doesn?t know all this? He has to sing to his master?s tune. My advice is to ignore Owen and all the other paid stooges and call out their paymaster as you are doing. Have a good weekend Omo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sander at steffann.nl Sat Sep 25 17:30:23 2021 From: sander at steffann.nl (Sander Steffann) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 19:30:23 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: <1d0be25e-096b-b667-545b-0c624b9f700d@LBSD.net> References: <83dacfd9-124d-9e42-fbca-00b4baf2000e@tinka.africa> <1d0be25e-096b-b667-545b-0c624b9f700d@LBSD.net> Message-ID: <40DA7636-A1D7-4226-B8DC-24BCDF6A4884@steffann.nl> Hi, > Yep .... attached another one. That attachment looks like they are trying to form another RIR to replace AFRINIC by making promised about future policies that they (top-down) will implement. That is so disgusting and inappropriate. There are many things that AFRINIC has done that I really don't like, but trying to replace them with a top-down entity?!?! That is something I REALLY despise? Sander From owen at delong.com Sat Sep 25 19:27:09 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 12:27:09 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: References: <92030.1632423642@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: <4BE5C521-06F7-4572-AD1C-635DDDCD26B8@delong.com> > On Sep 25, 2021, at 02:23 , Noah wrote: > > > > On Sat, 25 Sep 2021, 03:27 Owen DeLong, > wrote: > List administrators, are we really going to tolerate Noah calling everyone who disagrees with him a ?Lu Heng recruit? or similar? > > Owen, > > I didnt know you as one who lacks backbone even though its typical of all Lu Heng stooges to cry for CoC whenever you guys are corned. > > > Noah, contrary to what you?d like to have everyone believe, there are people who disagree with you who have nothing to do with Lue Heng. > > Well Siyuan Miao through a simple G-lookup has already confirmed that Cheken and Olerato are your colleagues and both are indeed associated with Lu Heng thereby confirming my earlier assumption. Even though they are associated, it is not appropriate for you to engage in ad hominem against them by calling them cutouts, sock puppets, or whatever other epithet you choose to use at any given time. Owen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Sat Sep 25 20:38:45 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 13:38:45 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: References: <91980.1632423315@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: <971D8735-A931-4CD3-BF4E-10B6EBDD104D@delong.com> > On Sep 25, 2021, at 03:14 , Noah wrote: > > > > On Thu, 23 Sep 2021, 22:10 Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss, > wrote: > > > > On Sep 23, 2021, at 11:55 , Ronald F. Guilmette > wrote: > > > Owen, take some free advice. Stop saying stupid stuff. You don't have > > a lot of credibility left to lose, but its just a waste of bandwidth to > > say stuff that can so easily be disproven. The following was already > > posted here as being part of a message sent by a Larus minion: > > > > > >> ? What will happen if AFRINIC loses the lawsuit and finds itself 50 million USD in debt? > > That?s a valid question and not misinformation. > > >> ? Will the African internet be disrupted? > > Another valid question and not misinformation. > > >> ? Who will take care of the sustainability of the current operation of the African Internet Registry? > > Another valid question and not misinformation. > > >> ? How can the resource members save their operations by transferring their resources elsewhere? > > > Owen, > > The questions from NRS are tactical and intended to spew doubt and uncertainty among a handful of AFRINIC resource members who are unfortunately ignorant about matters AFRINIC. That doesn?t make them illegitimate or misinformation. > Why does Lu Heng who is suing care of AFRINIC looses in court. I thought that is exactly what Lu Heng wants. So why does he care? I don?t know why Lu chooses to care about the things he cares about, I suppose you should ask him. > Why does Lu Heng care if the Africa Internet gets disrupted. Who went to court first? Anyway, Last I checked, Lu Heng customers are not in Africa since public data shows a handful of them are mostly in China and USA. Contrary to the allegations, we have clients in Africa and we do provide services there. Contrary to the allegations, we do not want to see the internet disrupted anywhere. Usually the victim is the one who sues in any situation. Since you know I am barred from commenting on certain case specifics due to the sub judice rules, I will speak hypothetically about some other situation that is similar? Let?s presume that MegaCorp was the only supplier of fish in your town. Further, let?s presume that you have a contract with MegaCorp to supply you a certain number of fish every week, so long as you continue to pay for the fish at the agreed upon price and so long as you serve the fish in restaurants rather than letting them languish in the freezer. Now, let?s presume that without evidence that you even have a freezer, MegaCorp says that they believe you are stockpiling the fish in a freezer and not serving them and are therefore going to stop delivering fish to you in 30 days unless you can prove that you don?t have any of their fish in any freezers anywhere and have, in fact served all of their fish. Further, they assert that you are required to have served those fish in one particular restaurant or they will stop delivering fish to you in 30 days. Further, you are required to identify all freezers you have and submit them for inspection and if they find any fish in the freezers, they will confiscate those as well, no matter whether they are fish you obtained from MegaCorp or not. Would you permit MegaCorp to do this to you, or would you seek protection for your restaurants from MegaCorp through the courts since MegaCorp is clearly trying to subject you to provisions that are not in the contract? > So this is classic Lu Heng. He will use CIL, Larus Ltd, Larus Foundation and his Number Resource Society aka NRS tactically to advance whatever new false narrative he wishes to spread inline with his deeply rooted beliefs that RIR are just book keepers. He confuses Larus Ltd which is the book keeper for an RIR. Sorry, that doesn?t parse? What false narrative do you refer to? RIRs are first and foremost a form of bookkeeper ? They are a registry. Their duty is to properly record and register the delegation of IP number resources to entities that have applied and qualified for them. Perhaps it is you that are confusing RIRs for some quasi-governmental agency when they are just another not-for-profit NGO? I don?t think Larus Ltd. provides any bookkeeping services to any RIR save for the records required to be kept by them as an LIR under the RSA. > You see, Lu does not care about any of the AFRINIC resource members he is currently targeting in his new subtle campaign of attempting to recruit a couple of AFRINIC resource members to his hongkong based NRS to his own benefit. There are many terms I would use to describe that recruitment campaign from NRS, but subtle isn?t one of them. Further, as I work with Lu and converse with him almost daily, given that I am uncertain as to what he does or does not care about, I am willing to suggest you likely have very little actual knowledge on the subject, but prefer instead to offer speculation and innuendo as if they were fact. Given that you are an AFRINIC apologist, this is not surprising as it is a common tactic employed by them as well. > All those questions are intended for a purpose. To cast doubt among some resource members who do not actually have a clue what is going on. The ones who pay membership fees each year and are not necessary involved with AFRINIC matters perhaps due to limited outreach by the administration at AFRINIC to its own members. I never said the questions do or do not cast doubt or said anything about their purpose. I challenged your assertion that they were misinformation. I stand by that challenge. Please identify any misinformation. A question by definition is not information as it is a request for information. Since it is not information, it cannot be categorized as misinformation. If I said ?AFRINIC is bankrupt.? that would be misinformation. Asking ?Will these lawsuits bankrupt AFRINIC?? is not misinformation, it is a query. > Those message are misinformation crafted by desperate Lu Heng. You see if there is something he know best, is his attempts to abuse existing processes. ARIN CEO, did confirm this to be true when Lu went to ARIN asking for IPv4 and they rejected his applications until he came to AFRINIC service region where unfortunately, he managed to game the system. I don?t think Lu is desperate. I wish I could comment more about what I know, but alas, what I can say is very limited. What processes, exactly, is he abusing and how? You?ve once again made an unfounded allegation that he is abusing processes, please provide specific hard evidence to support it or stop. ARIN confirmed that Lu abandoned his application when it became clear that his intended usage didn?t meet ARIN policy. That wasn?t an abuse of process, that was choosing not to abuse process. You accuse him of gaming the system, but you have no evidence to support this. If you have actual evidence, present it. Show the facts, the exact provisions of the Bylaws, CPM, or RSA that you allege he has violated and the clear evidence of said violations. So far, none has been presented anywhere. Only allegation after allegation. > The Larus foundation for a couple of years literary rendered the AFRINIC PDP hopeless with its so called Fellows (mostly university students) who were literary paid up mercenaries after all those stipends where not for free. We know most of the actors. Larus fellows are absolutely free and even encouraged to speak their mind. The educational materials we provide to them are as fair and balanced as we can possibly make them. One time, the documents were even placed before this community and confirmed to contain only factual information clearly presenting both sides of each issue. There was one error, but even that did not change the overall meaning or objectivity of the document. This was agreed by multiple community members, including the one who was slightly misquoted. Yes, most Larus fellows are university students because we believe that educating young people about internet policy and getting them involved early is the key to a robust and active policy development process that serves the broadest reaches of the community. It?s true that the stipends are conditioned on active participation and not merely sitting in seats. However, we don?t tell them what to say or how to say it. We insist that they become informed on the policy proposals under discussion, consider the issues for themselves and develop their own positions on the matters. Nobody has ever been denied a Larus Foundation stipend for taking any position on any policy proposal. We encourage participation through the foundation. We do not control or even attempt to influence what direction that participation takes. Therefore, this allegation remains baseless. OTOH, we could discuss what happened in Senegal when a fleet of hair dressers suddenly appeared for part of the PDP, collected their free lunch and were on their way, apparently funded by a different AFRINIC community faction (and technically AFRINIC itself since they provided the free lunch), or the unseemly campaign against Mark Elkins in Nairobi. > I mean, Cloud Innovation Ltd is literary abusing the mauritian legal system. Who the heck goes to court with 12 cases, I mean 12 law suits against an single member-baded not-for profit entity. Good for Appleby though, suits are not served freely. How is it abusing the system? Can you categorically say that there is not a legitimate cause of action in any of those cases? Do you even have knowledge of the subject matter content of each case (beyond the lopsided optimistic summaries provided by AFRINIC?) > https://afrinic.net/court-cases Case 1 is not related to Cloud Innovation, Larus, or Lu Heng in any way that I am aware of. In fact, IMHO, case 1 is without merit and I hope AFRINIC prevails. Case 2 is not Cloud Innovation and to the best of my knowledge is not in any way related to Larus or Lu Heng. I don?t have enough data to render an opinion on its merits. Case 3 is the initial case filed in response to AFRINIC?s attempt to terminate Cloud Innovation?s membership based on unfounded allegations. It was set aside on a technicality and the appeal is still pending. case count for Cloud Innovation so far: 1. Case 4 is a separate case from case 3 because the matter, while related to and contributing to our cause of action in case 3 is required by law to be heard in a different court. case count so far: 2 Case 5 is a separate case because it covers a matter unrelated to case 3. However, successful resolution of case 5 could render case 3 moot. case count so far: 3 Case 6 was an attempt to avoid the need for cases 7 and 8 in the process of appealing case 3. A technicality raised by AFRINIC?s response to case 3 created the need for cases 6, 7, and 8. Case 7 and case 8 were parallel efforts to ge our services restored after AFRINIC?s illegal action in response to a ruling on case 3. Case 7 was dismissed in favor of proceeding with case 8. Case 8 is the case caused by AFRINIC?s board resolution of July 8 whereby we were able to get our membership reinstated and our services restored after some delay and refusal to comply by AFRINIC for some 54+ hours. In reality the above 3 are one case, so case count so far: 4 Case 9 is really case 3, but AFRINIC is treating the appeal of the ruling in case 3 as a separate case on this page. Case 10 is the attachment order for AFRINIC?s bank accounts to secure the damages caused by the boards improper motion from July 8 and AFRINIC?s implementation thereof. case count so far: 5 Case 11 was initiated by AFRINIC, so you can?t count that as being Cloud Innovation. I will note that case 11 was AFRINIC trying to get rid of case 10 and it was denied. Case 12 is the required follow-up to the provisional order in case 10, so it really isn?t a separate case. Case 13 is the direct result of actions taken by AFRINIC and its officers. Since it is about acts taken after the other cases were filed and names additional respondents, it must be a separate case. case count so far: 6 Case 14 is the result of AFRINIC?s failure to comply with the court order in case 8, so while it is technically a separate case, it is both the direct result of actions taken by AFRINIC andesentially part of case 8. Nonetheless, I?ll count this one: 7 Case 15 is initiated by AFRINIC. Case 16 is the result of the most recent set of AFRINIC allegations and actions, but since I can?t comment on the details, I?ll count it. That brings our running total of cases to 8, not 12. You have inflated your figure by 50% vs. a legitimate count of the cases. I?ve noted the reasons for there being 8 separate cases above. > Now you have this so called Number Resource Society nrs.help attempting to recruit AFRINIC resource members to the Lu Heng train. This is about Lu defending his personal interest as a typical dishonest individual he has been since 2014 when he lied that he would be investing in AFRICA and use the millions of IPs in AFRICA. I despise liars especially those who take the rest of Africa for fools. Lu has, in fact, by your own admission invested in Africa and you have criticized him for doing so. Now you want to claim he has not and criticize him for that. You can despise liars all you want, but you must start looking in the mirror, sir. If you do not take the rest of Africa for fools, why are you so afraid that they will not recognize this recruiting letter for what you claim it to be? > While most AFRINIC resource members may not realise it, but its we resource members who are being sued. In fact, that?s what one of the cases is about? If resource members are truly members, then that status is being abused by AFRINIC and they should be entered in the registry of members and treated as shareholders. However, you are not being sued. Even the shareholders AFRINIC admits to (save the chairman) are not being sued. The organization is being sued. The resource members have zero financial liability for the outcome of any such suit. The resource members are not liable for the organizations legal fees beyond the amount they have agreed to contribute each year as payment for their AFRINIC registration services. > Who is AFRINIC? Or What is AFRINIC? Is it the staff employed by AFRINIC ? Is it the registered directors? or is it the over 1800 resource members serving the wider African Internet community? A criminal organization that has an impressive inability to read and understand the contracts and rules that they, themselves, have written. I?d pay close attention to case #4 to see what the Mauritian courts decide is the answer to that last question, however. > In one of the suits, Lu Heng wants a purported 1.8 billion and some 50 Million from AFRINIC? He basically wants our hard earned money which we have contributed for over 20 years through annual membership fees that this guy wants to rip us off. He?s seeking monetary compensation in damages for acts committed by AFRINIC on behalf of those members. I?d suggest that if members don?t want to fund such damages, they should not elect such leadership. > How much has Lu Heng contributed to AFRINIC since the dude showed up in 2013? I don?t know. How is this relevant? > What has he done for our region that any soul can admire him for beyond his fake PR stunts in terms of sponsorships which he calls investment. Since this is shown as a statement and not a question, I presume you are bloviating and not expecting a response. I?ve deleted your further bloviating as I don?t think repeating it serves any purpose. I will say that the address suppliers we have contracted with so far have received the payments they have been promised, so I think your claim of broken promises will ring hollow with them. > To those who need some IPv4, AFRINIC still has IPv4 thought limited, reach out to them instead. Plan also your IPv6 deployments. Talk to your LIR as well and be alert when emails are sent to you promising you IPv4 and richness. Yes, by all means get free pool addresses from AFRINIC while you can. Further, please do deploy IPv6 as it is the only real hope for a useful future internet in Africa or anywhere else for that matter. > I am calling out Lu Heng as an internet community member and a resource member. So unless you are Lu Heng, please stay out of this. You are replying to a message I sent to the list, so I?m responding to your reply. If you want to call out Lu Heng, send an email to him directly. If you post on a public list, you cannot preclude the public from responding. Owen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Sat Sep 25 20:43:50 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 13:43:50 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: References: <91980.1632423315@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: > Noah, > > Do you think Owen doesn?t know all this? He has to sing to his master?s tune. My advice is to ignore Owen and all the other paid stooges and call out their paymaster as you are doing. I do not have a master. The tune I sing is one of my choosing. Your ad hominem attack here is unwarranted, unfounded, and ill conceived. As you will see from my detailed reply to Noah?s message, he has misrepresented the facts of the matter. I regularly disagree with Lu and Larus, however, in this particular situation, it is, in fact, AFRINIC that has repeatedly stepped over the line. We will see how the courts respond to this in due course. Owen From boubakarbarry at gmail.com Sat Sep 25 21:00:57 2021 From: boubakarbarry at gmail.com (Boubakar Barry) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 21:00:57 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: References: <91980.1632423315@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: Owen, On Sat, Sep 25, 2021 at 8:44 PM Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss < community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > > > Noah, > > > > Do you think Owen doesn?t know all this? He has to sing to his > master?s tune. My advice is to ignore Owen and all the other paid stooges > and call out their paymaster as you are doing. > > I do not have a master. The tune I sing is one of my choosing. Your ad > hominem attack here is unwarranted, unfounded, and ill conceived. > > As you will see from my detailed reply to Noah?s message, he has > misrepresented the facts of the matter. > > I regularly disagree with Lu and Larus, however, in this particular > situation, it is, in fact, AFRINIC that has repeatedly stepped over the > line. > > We will see how the courts respond to this in due course. > To be honest, I sometimes feel pity for you and I wonder why you don't just "retire" from all of this. I have known another Owen in the past, maybe a false judgement from me at that time. This whole discussion with you trying for months to respond to questions not directed to you is just pathetic. But who knows, as you admit that you are connected to those who want to bury AFRINIC, maybe the cheques you receive from them are just difficult to not accept and cash? Boubakar > Owen > > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rfg at tristatelogic.com Sat Sep 25 22:30:46 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2021 15:30:46 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: <40DA7636-A1D7-4226-B8DC-24BCDF6A4884@steffann.nl> Message-ID: <2052.1632609046@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In message <40DA7636-A1D7-4226-B8DC-24BCDF6A4884 at steffann.nl>, Sander Steffann wrote: >That attachment looks like they are trying to form another RIR to replace >AFRINIC by making promised about future policies that they (top-down) will >implement. That is so disgusting and inappropriate. There are many things >that AFRINIC has done that I really don't like, but trying to replace them >with a top-down entity?!?! That is something I REALLY despise... I personally have no objection if some other entity wants to come in and fully take over all of the duties of AFRINIC, e.g. if that other entity thinks that it can do a better job. The problem I have with this apparent current attempt to do that is that it is clearly not based on anything which is even remotely democratic. I've said it before and I'll say it again... It appears from where I am sitting that this is just an attempt at a hostile takeover by one company and one guy. And I think that if it were successful, it would not serve the interests of even a significant minority of the current AFRINIC dues- paying members. Regards, rfg From h.lu at anytimechinese.com Sun Sep 26 00:28:06 2021 From: h.lu at anytimechinese.com (Lu Heng) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2021 08:28:06 +0800 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: <40DA7636-A1D7-4226-B8DC-24BCDF6A4884@steffann.nl> References: <83dacfd9-124d-9e42-fbca-00b4baf2000e@tinka.africa> <1d0be25e-096b-b667-545b-0c624b9f700d@LBSD.net> <40DA7636-A1D7-4226-B8DC-24BCDF6A4884@steffann.nl> Message-ID: Hi Sander: An avocation does not constitute policy. An private NGO can not make top down policy in the society. Afrinic can not, NRS can not. I support RIR system to be a true bookkeeper and stay out of anti trust behavior. And I don?t believe if ever, RIR system is being replaced, will be replaced by another NGO, Hence claim some NGO can/try form another RIR is a laughable idea. Cold War does not turn into nuclear because consistent de-escalation. Provocation, personal emotion, character assassination all will not help the situation. Sander Steffann ?2021?9?26? ??01:32??? > Hi, > > > Yep .... attached another one. > > That attachment looks like they are trying to form another RIR to replace > AFRINIC by making promised about future policies that they (top-down) will > implement. That is so disgusting and inappropriate. There are many things > that AFRINIC has done that I really don't like, but trying to replace them > with a top-down entity?!?! That is something I REALLY despise? > > Sander > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -- -- Kind regards. Lu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sander at steffann.nl Sun Sep 26 13:05:32 2021 From: sander at steffann.nl (Sander Steffann) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2021 15:05:32 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: References: <83dacfd9-124d-9e42-fbca-00b4baf2000e@tinka.africa> <1d0be25e-096b-b667-545b-0c624b9f700d@LBSD.net> <40DA7636-A1D7-4226-B8DC-24BCDF6A4884@steffann.nl> Message-ID: <5EAEADDC-9AD9-45B2-ABC7-BCBF6D15D905@steffann.nl> Hi Lu, > An avocation does not constitute policy. An private NGO can not make top down policy in the society. Afrinic can not, NRS can not. As Owen told me "It is intended to be (to some extent) a lobbying group on behalf of its members.". Even if it is just limited to that, it goes against all bottom-up fundamentals. There is no place for advocacy/lobbying in a bottom-up community. You always tell me that you base your ideas on those of Rob Blokzijn. Well, then follow his basic rule: everybody speaks for themselves, and only for themselves. In a bottom-up community there is no place for "representation" of groups. Everybody's voice counts exactly the same. That is a rule that was at the heart of Rob's teachings. Cheers, Sander From h.lu at anytimechinese.com Sun Sep 26 13:23:22 2021 From: h.lu at anytimechinese.com (Lu Heng) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2021 21:23:22 +0800 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: <5EAEADDC-9AD9-45B2-ABC7-BCBF6D15D905@steffann.nl> References: <83dacfd9-124d-9e42-fbca-00b4baf2000e@tinka.africa> <1d0be25e-096b-b667-545b-0c624b9f700d@LBSD.net> <40DA7636-A1D7-4226-B8DC-24BCDF6A4884@steffann.nl> <5EAEADDC-9AD9-45B2-ABC7-BCBF6D15D905@steffann.nl> Message-ID: As exactly that, Owen does not make a representation of me, or any of the company some might think he represents, his understanding is entirely his own and does not speak for me, or NRS. To my understanding, NRS is not trying to make representation of anyone here in the community, and it never did, it's passing on a teaching/a view of the world some might find acceptable, some may find not. Just like earlier days of RIPE meeting no one talks to me but Rob, and he teaches me on what turns out to be my understanding of the system. In RIPE meetings we always hear this disclaimer that "my views are my own" "xxx. internet person", and yes, I fully understand and support it. On Sun, 26 Sept 2021 at 21:05, Sander Steffann wrote: > > Hi Lu, > > > An avocation does not constitute policy. An private NGO can not make top down policy in the society. Afrinic can not, NRS can not. > > As Owen told me "It is intended to be (to some extent) a lobbying group on behalf of its members.". Even if it is just limited to that, it goes against all bottom-up fundamentals. There is no place for advocacy/lobbying in a bottom-up community. > > You always tell me that you base your ideas on those of Rob Blokzijn. Well, then follow his basic rule: everybody speaks for themselves, and only for themselves. In a bottom-up community there is no place for "representation" of groups. Everybody's voice counts exactly the same. That is a rule that was at the heart of Rob's teachings. > > Cheers, > Sander > -- -- Kind regards. Lu From sander at steffann.nl Sun Sep 26 13:24:46 2021 From: sander at steffann.nl (Sander Steffann) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2021 15:24:46 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: References: <83dacfd9-124d-9e42-fbca-00b4baf2000e@tinka.africa> <1d0be25e-096b-b667-545b-0c624b9f700d@LBSD.net> <40DA7636-A1D7-4226-B8DC-24BCDF6A4884@steffann.nl> <5EAEADDC-9AD9-45B2-ABC7-BCBF6D15D905@steffann.nl> Message-ID: <9745C4A3-5B18-4D1E-8E11-2B116E4BD263@steffann.nl> Hi Lu, > To my understanding, NRS is not trying to make representation of > anyone here in the community, and it never did, it's passing on a > teaching/a view of the world some might find acceptable, some may find > not. Thank you for that clarification. Cheers, Sander From Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net Sun Sep 26 14:03:39 2021 From: Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net (Omo Oaiya) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2021 15:03:39 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: <9745C4A3-5B18-4D1E-8E11-2B116E4BD263@steffann.nl> References: <83dacfd9-124d-9e42-fbca-00b4baf2000e@tinka.africa> <1d0be25e-096b-b667-545b-0c624b9f700d@LBSD.net> <40DA7636-A1D7-4226-B8DC-24BCDF6A4884@steffann.nl> <5EAEADDC-9AD9-45B2-ABC7-BCBF6D15D905@steffann.nl> <9745C4A3-5B18-4D1E-8E11-2B116E4BD263@steffann.nl> Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Sept 2021 at 14:26, Sander Steffann wrote: > Hi Lu, > > > To my understanding, NRS is not trying to make representation of > > anyone here in the community, and it never did, it's passing on a > > teaching/a view of the world some might find acceptable, some may find > > not. > > Thank you for that clarification. > > Cheers, > Sander > > > Sander, Have you heard of anyone from RIPE or any of the other RIRs being canvassed in this manner? Or is AFRINIC special? Omo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sander at steffann.nl Sun Sep 26 14:08:52 2021 From: sander at steffann.nl (Sander Steffann) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2021 16:08:52 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: References: <83dacfd9-124d-9e42-fbca-00b4baf2000e@tinka.africa> <1d0be25e-096b-b667-545b-0c624b9f700d@LBSD.net> <40DA7636-A1D7-4226-B8DC-24BCDF6A4884@steffann.nl> <5EAEADDC-9AD9-45B2-ABC7-BCBF6D15D905@steffann.nl> <9745C4A3-5B18-4D1E-8E11-2B116E4BD263@steffann.nl> Message-ID: Hi Omo, > Have you heard of anyone from RIPE or any of the other RIRs being canvassed in this manner? Or is AFRINIC special? As far as I know this is only happening in AFRINIC. But the way AFRINIC deals with its members and community is also "unique". Other RIRs have a much less contentious relationship with their community, so that may be of influence... Cheers, Sander From Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net Sun Sep 26 14:17:01 2021 From: Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net (Omo Oaiya) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2021 15:17:01 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: References: <83dacfd9-124d-9e42-fbca-00b4baf2000e@tinka.africa> <1d0be25e-096b-b667-545b-0c624b9f700d@LBSD.net> <40DA7636-A1D7-4226-B8DC-24BCDF6A4884@steffann.nl> <5EAEADDC-9AD9-45B2-ABC7-BCBF6D15D905@steffann.nl> <9745C4A3-5B18-4D1E-8E11-2B116E4BD263@steffann.nl> Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Sept 2021 at 15:09, Sander Steffann wrote: > Hi Omo, > > > Have you heard of anyone from RIPE or any of the other RIRs being > canvassed in this manner? Or is AFRINIC special? > > As far as I know this is only happening in AFRINIC. But the way AFRINIC > deals with its members and community is also "unique". Other RIRs have a > much less contentious relationship with their community, so that may be of > influence... > > Thanks. I was trying to understand the dialogue between you and Lu and the "clarification". How do you mean "may be of influence"? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sander at steffann.nl Sun Sep 26 15:03:58 2021 From: sander at steffann.nl (Sander Steffann) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2021 17:03:58 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: References: <83dacfd9-124d-9e42-fbca-00b4baf2000e@tinka.africa> <1d0be25e-096b-b667-545b-0c624b9f700d@LBSD.net> <40DA7636-A1D7-4226-B8DC-24BCDF6A4884@steffann.nl> <5EAEADDC-9AD9-45B2-ABC7-BCBF6D15D905@steffann.nl> <9745C4A3-5B18-4D1E-8E11-2B116E4BD263@steffann.nl> Message-ID: Hi Omo, > Thanks. I was trying to understand the dialogue between you and Lu and the "clarification". How do you mean "may be of influence"? At AFRINIC meetings I have seen many cases where there was a lot of "steering" (people being sent to the microphones with pre-defined statements they didn't write themselves, but where it was pretended that it was their own opinion) which I have never seen at other RIRs. AFRINIC seems to be unique in the way there are plays for power and influence that are undermining the true bottom-up way, and people seem to accept this as normal. In other regions there is much less hierarchy (we have no CoE for example) and everybody is treated more equally. The "power games" I have seen in AFRINIC at all levels (board, management, RPD, community) and the distrust between for example Anglophone and Francophone parts of the community make it very hard to run a true bottom-up system. Such behaviour in AFRINIC and its community make it very vulnerable to top-down influences, because the framework for such influences is already there. Cheers, Sander PS: I am only part of the global internet community, not directly of the AFRINIC community. I can therefore only state how I see things from the outside. I am sure there are many things I interpret differently because of my different background. Please do not take offence, I only try to hold up a mirror. I have no personal, commercial or financial stake in AFRINIC, but I do care about the bottom-up principle and fairness. Those are the only reasons I speak up on AFRINIC mailing lists. From comms at afrinic.net Mon Sep 27 12:28:21 2021 From: comms at afrinic.net (AFRINIC Communication) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2021 16:28:21 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: References: <83dacfd9-124d-9e42-fbca-00b4baf2000e@tinka.africa> <1d0be25e-096b-b667-545b-0c624b9f700d@LBSD.net> <40DA7636-A1D7-4226-B8DC-24BCDF6A4884@steffann.nl> <5EAEADDC-9AD9-45B2-ABC7-BCBF6D15D905@steffann.nl> <9745C4A3-5B18-4D1E-8E11-2B116E4BD263@steffann.nl> Message-ID: Dear community members, AFRINIC has taken note of a post together with a corresponding attachment that contains inaccuracies and presented out of context on this thread (https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-September/004862.html) and was aimed at causing damage and prejudice to AFRINIC as Regional Internet Registry for the African region. AFRINIC wishes to inform its community that the information contained in the said attachment are presently the subject of several ongoing cases involving AFRINIC and Cloud Innovation Ltd as well as an ongoing police investigation in respect of a matter reported for misappropriation of IP number resources. AFRINIC will not comment thereon but reserves its rights to apply its Code of Conduct against all persons making use of its mailing lists for the purposes of causing damage and harm to AFRINIC and to take such action as it may be advised. We have also noticed that some community members are not upholding the code of conduct in their exchanges. We urge you all to read the AFRINIC Code of Conduct to make sure you are up to date on the processes that safeguard the discussion and community-driven policies at the heart of AFRINIC. The code of conduct ensures that discussions are kept professional and that individuals are protected against defamatory, derogatory and personal attacks. Please read the following blog post for more information on the AFRINIC Code of Conduct: https://afrinic.net/20200903-code-of-conduct AFRINIC Communication > On 26 Sep 2021, at 19:03, Sander Steffann wrote: > > Hi Omo, > >> Thanks. I was trying to understand the dialogue between you and Lu and the "clarification". How do you mean "may be of influence"? > > At AFRINIC meetings I have seen many cases where there was a lot of "steering" (people being sent to the microphones with pre-defined statements they didn't write themselves, but where it was pretended that it was their own opinion) which I have never seen at other RIRs. AFRINIC seems to be unique in the way there are plays for power and influence that are undermining the true bottom-up way, and people seem to accept this as normal. In other regions there is much less hierarchy (we have no CoE for example) and everybody is treated more equally. > > The "power games" I have seen in AFRINIC at all levels (board, management, RPD, community) and the distrust between for example Anglophone and Francophone parts of the community make it very hard to run a true bottom-up system. Such behaviour in AFRINIC and its community make it very vulnerable to top-down influences, because the framework for such influences is already there. > > Cheers, > Sander > > PS: I am only part of the global internet community, not directly of the AFRINIC community. I can therefore only state how I see things from the outside. I am sure there are many things I interpret differently because of my different background. Please do not take offence, I only try to hold up a mirror. I have no personal, commercial or financial stake in AFRINIC, but I do care about the bottom-up principle and fairness. Those are the only reasons I speak up on AFRINIC mailing lists. > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss From owen at delong.com Tue Sep 28 03:51:17 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2021 20:51:17 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: References: <83dacfd9-124d-9e42-fbca-00b4baf2000e@tinka.africa> <1d0be25e-096b-b667-545b-0c624b9f700d@LBSD.net> <40DA7636-A1D7-4226-B8DC-24BCDF6A4884@steffann.nl> <5EAEADDC-9AD9-45B2-ABC7-BCBF6D15D905@steffann.nl> <9745C4A3-5B18-4D1E-8E11-2B116E4BD263@steffann.nl> Message-ID: <7B420021-795C-4B47-81C7-910BA09736E4@delong.com> > On Sep 27, 2021, at 05:28 , AFRINIC Communication wrote: > > Dear community members, > > AFRINIC has taken note of a post together with a corresponding attachment that contains inaccuracies and presented out of context on this thread (https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-September/004862.html) and was aimed at causing damage and prejudice to AFRINIC as Regional Internet Registry for the African region. Yes, but the attachment wasn?t posted to the mailing list by its original sender, it was posted by someone complaining about the mailing having been received in a completely different context. > AFRINIC wishes to inform its community that the information contained in the said attachment are presently the subject of several ongoing cases involving AFRINIC and Cloud Innovation Ltd as well as an ongoing police investigation in respect of a matter reported for misappropriation of IP number resources. AFRINIC will not comment thereon but reserves its rights to apply its Code of Conduct against all persons making use of its mailing lists for the purposes of causing damage and harm to AFRINIC and to take such action as it may be advised. So you?re going to go after the person who posted the attachment in order to complain about it? That seems unreasonable, even by AFRINIC standards. Personally, I don?t think the attachment was inaccurate or out of context, but I agree that it asks questions that are likely uncomfortable for AFRINIC at this time. As near as I can tell, it?s an attempt to recruit members to the NRS. I don?t see anything in there that actually harms or attempts to harm AFRINIC. Nonetheless, it wasn?t posted to the list by its supporters, it was posted by someone complaining about it. As such, the only poster of said attachment that you can apply the CoC to is the one complaining about it. I suppose that is how AFRINIC treats its community members these days. Owen From nkukard at LBSD.net Tue Sep 28 04:48:48 2021 From: nkukard at LBSD.net (Nigel Kukard) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2021 04:48:48 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: References: <83dacfd9-124d-9e42-fbca-00b4baf2000e@tinka.africa> <1d0be25e-096b-b667-545b-0c624b9f700d@LBSD.net> <40DA7636-A1D7-4226-B8DC-24BCDF6A4884@steffann.nl> <5EAEADDC-9AD9-45B2-ABC7-BCBF6D15D905@steffann.nl> <9745C4A3-5B18-4D1E-8E11-2B116E4BD263@steffann.nl> Message-ID: <5f29d867-954d-b319-f964-7eb56c7d56d0@LBSD.net> On 9/27/21 12:28, AFRINIC Communication wrote: > Dear community members, > > AFRINIC has taken note of a post together with a corresponding attachment that contains inaccuracies and presented out of context on this thread (https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-September/004862.html) and was aimed at causing damage and prejudice to AFRINIC as Regional Internet Registry for the African region. I was complaining that I too were getting unsolicited mails in a thread that others were also complaining and providing samples. How is my post out of context? How is me complaining about getting unsolicited mails aimed at causing damage and prejudice to AFRINIC? Why am I being publicly targeted and singled out? > AFRINIC wishes to inform its community that the information contained in the said attachment are presently the subject of several ongoing cases involving AFRINIC and Cloud Innovation Ltd as well as an ongoing police investigation in respect of a matter reported for misappropriation of IP number resources. Yes, we know that. Your members are complaining about getting unsolicited communications involving email and phone calls and sharing this with each other on a _COMMUNITY_ mailing list and discussing it. > AFRINIC will not comment thereon but reserves its rights to apply its Code of Conduct against all persons making use of its mailing lists for the purposes of causing damage and harm to AFRINIC and to take such action as it may be advised. Literally my second post, second complaint about getting unsolicited communications and I'm being threatened by AFRINIC with action because I'm causing damage and prejudice to AFRINIC? -N > We have also noticed that some community members are not upholding the code of conduct in their exchanges. > > We urge you all to read the AFRINIC Code of Conduct to make sure you are up to date on the processes that safeguard the discussion and community-driven policies at the heart of AFRINIC. > > The code of conduct ensures that discussions are kept professional and that individuals are protected against defamatory, derogatory and personal attacks. > > Please read the following blog post for more information on the AFRINIC Code of Conduct:https://afrinic.net/20200903-code-of-conduct > > > AFRINIC Communication > >> On 26 Sep 2021, at 19:03, Sander Steffann wrote: >> >> Hi Omo, >> >>> Thanks. I was trying to understand the dialogue between you and Lu and the "clarification". How do you mean "may be of influence"? >> At AFRINIC meetings I have seen many cases where there was a lot of "steering" (people being sent to the microphones with pre-defined statements they didn't write themselves, but where it was pretended that it was their own opinion) which I have never seen at other RIRs. AFRINIC seems to be unique in the way there are plays for power and influence that are undermining the true bottom-up way, and people seem to accept this as normal. In other regions there is much less hierarchy (we have no CoE for example) and everybody is treated more equally. >> >> The "power games" I have seen in AFRINIC at all levels (board, management, RPD, community) and the distrust between for example Anglophone and Francophone parts of the community make it very hard to run a true bottom-up system. Such behaviour in AFRINIC and its community make it very vulnerable to top-down influences, because the framework for such influences is already there. >> >> Cheers, >> Sander >> >> PS: I am only part of the global internet community, not directly of the AFRINIC community. I can therefore only state how I see things from the outside. I am sure there are many things I interpret differently because of my different background. Please do not take offence, I only try to hold up a mirror. I have no personal, commercial or financial stake in AFRINIC, but I do care about the bottom-up principle and fairness. Those are the only reasons I speak up on AFRINIC mailing lists. >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From comms at afrinic.net Tue Sep 28 06:31:17 2021 From: comms at afrinic.net (AFRINIC Communication) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2021 10:31:17 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: <5f29d867-954d-b319-f964-7eb56c7d56d0@LBSD.net> References: <83dacfd9-124d-9e42-fbca-00b4baf2000e@tinka.africa> <1d0be25e-096b-b667-545b-0c624b9f700d@LBSD.net> <40DA7636-A1D7-4226-B8DC-24BCDF6A4884@steffann.nl> <5EAEADDC-9AD9-45B2-ABC7-BCBF6D15D905@steffann.nl> <9745C4A3-5B18-4D1E-8E11-2B116E4BD263@steffann.nl> <5f29d867-954d-b319-f964-7eb56c7d56d0@LBSD.net> Message-ID: Dear Nigel, We thank you for bringing this to our attention. The message was not targeted towards you per se but rather those that produce and propagate such content within the AFRINIC membership and community. We appreciate our community's kind understanding and support. Regards, AFRINIC Communication > On 28 Sep 2021, at 08:48, Nigel Kukard wrote: > > > > On 9/27/21 12:28, AFRINIC Communication wrote: >> Dear community members, >> >> AFRINIC has taken note of a post together with a corresponding attachment that contains inaccuracies and presented out of context on this thread (https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-September/004862.html ) and was aimed at causing damage and prejudice to AFRINIC as Regional Internet Registry for the African region. > I was complaining that I too were getting unsolicited mails in a thread that others were also complaining and providing samples. How is my post out of context? > > How is me complaining about getting unsolicited mails aimed at causing damage and prejudice to AFRINIC? > > Why am I being publicly targeted and singled out? > > > >> AFRINIC wishes to inform its community that the information contained in the said attachment are presently the subject of several ongoing cases involving AFRINIC and Cloud Innovation Ltd as well as an ongoing police investigation in respect of a matter reported for misappropriation of IP number resources. > Yes, we know that. Your members are complaining about getting unsolicited communications involving email and phone calls and sharing this with each other on a COMMUNITY mailing list and discussing it. > > > >> AFRINIC will not comment thereon but reserves its rights to apply its Code of Conduct against all persons making use of its mailing lists for the purposes of causing damage and harm to AFRINIC and to take such action as it may be advised. > Literally my second post, second complaint about getting unsolicited communications and I'm being threatened by AFRINIC with action because I'm causing damage and prejudice to AFRINIC? > > > > -N > > > >> We have also noticed that some community members are not upholding the code of conduct in their exchanges. >> >> We urge you all to read the AFRINIC Code of Conduct to make sure you are up to date on the processes that safeguard the discussion and community-driven policies at the heart of AFRINIC. >> >> The code of conduct ensures that discussions are kept professional and that individuals are protected against defamatory, derogatory and personal attacks. >> >> Please read the following blog post for more information on the AFRINIC Code of Conduct: https://afrinic.net/20200903-code-of-conduct >> >> >> AFRINIC Communication >> >>> On 26 Sep 2021, at 19:03, Sander Steffann wrote: >>> >>> Hi Omo, >>> >>>> Thanks. I was trying to understand the dialogue between you and Lu and the "clarification". How do you mean "may be of influence"? >>> At AFRINIC meetings I have seen many cases where there was a lot of "steering" (people being sent to the microphones with pre-defined statements they didn't write themselves, but where it was pretended that it was their own opinion) which I have never seen at other RIRs. AFRINIC seems to be unique in the way there are plays for power and influence that are undermining the true bottom-up way, and people seem to accept this as normal. In other regions there is much less hierarchy (we have no CoE for example) and everybody is treated more equally. >>> >>> The "power games" I have seen in AFRINIC at all levels (board, management, RPD, community) and the distrust between for example Anglophone and Francophone parts of the community make it very hard to run a true bottom-up system. Such behaviour in AFRINIC and its community make it very vulnerable to top-down influences, because the framework for such influences is already there. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Sander >>> >>> PS: I am only part of the global internet community, not directly of the AFRINIC community. I can therefore only state how I see things from the outside. I am sure there are many things I interpret differently because of my different background. Please do not take offence, I only try to hold up a mirror. I have no personal, commercial or financial stake in AFRINIC, but I do care about the bottom-up principle and fairness. Those are the only reasons I speak up on AFRINIC mailing lists. >>> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Tue Sep 28 09:36:39 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2021 12:36:39 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: References: <83dacfd9-124d-9e42-fbca-00b4baf2000e@tinka.africa> <1d0be25e-096b-b667-545b-0c624b9f700d@LBSD.net> <40DA7636-A1D7-4226-B8DC-24BCDF6A4884@steffann.nl> <5EAEADDC-9AD9-45B2-ABC7-BCBF6D15D905@steffann.nl> Message-ID: Lu, On Sun, 26 Sep 2021, 16:30 Lu Heng, wrote: > As exactly that, Owen does not make a representation of me, or any of > the company some might think he represents, his understanding is > entirely his own and does not speak for me, or NRS. > Very well, this is clear now since Owen often purports to speak on behalf of your various entities using the "*We*" blah blah blah. > To my understanding, NRS is not trying to make representation of > anyone here in the community, and it never did, it's passing on a > teaching/a view of the world some might find acceptable, some may find > not. > The documents being sent to various resource members contain deceit and misrepresentation so much so for false teaching expeditions by your self-serving NRS. Based on my years of participation in this community, I note that, no single resource member and I repeat, no single resource member has ever gone this far or acted in this manner with your motives becoming clearer, each day that passes from Cloud Innovation Ltd and all its affiliates. - I do not know of a resource member, who has attempted to recruit other resource members through deceit (NRS) until you Lu. - I do not know of a resource member whose associates (I mean your Larus Foundation Fellows) have repeatedly acted as an echo-chamber to ensure the AFRINIC PDP is rendered dysfunctional. - I do not know of a resource member who has attempted to work behind the scenes and push for a draft proposal through proxy authors until you Lu. You were always behind this Antony Ubah and Taiwo draft policy which the community rejected that today has pending PDWG appeals. If you deny what I just stated, I will ask a renowned community member to speak out about what I just stated. *Case #5: Cloud Innovation Ltd vs AFRINIC (SC/COM/MOT/000382/2021)On 07 July 2021, Cloud Innovation Ltd initiated an application for Injunction against AFRINIC requiring its board of directors to ratify a certain resource transfer policy. The matter is resisted by AFRINIC and is ongoing.* We the community rejected the proposal above because the co-chair errored and we appealed as we are empowered through the bottom up process. One of the former co-chairs, Abdulkarim, repeatedly lied to the community and abused the PDP process to forcefully advance this proposal which you have always pushed for behind the scenes. The proposal in fact was never even compatible with any RIR in all its multiple versions 2, version, 3 or version 4 all of which were rushed through by your associates Antony and Taiwo. Today, you want to hijack the empowered internet community and its bottom-up process by going to the Mauritian supreme courts in an attempt to force the court to ratify the flawed self-serving draft policy of yours. More than ever, the motive is clear, you want to use the policy as a means to again, as usual, abuse existing community developed processes so that you can get the opportunity to transfer the space that was allocated to you for use in AFRICA out of the region. I repeat, I do not know of a resource member who has invested so much energy in pushing a draft policy proposal that never reached community consensus until you Lu. AbdulKarim screaming Rough Consensus, Consensus, No Consensus and Consensus within 4 weeks in the last call does not make for Consensus. In the history of the AFRINIC PDP, no proposal has ever been protested like your resource transfer policy and that should tell you something about the bottom up process which you clearly do not respect or have a clue about. Your behaviour is so wanting Lu. Cheers, Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Tue Sep 28 09:44:44 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2021 12:44:44 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: References: <83dacfd9-124d-9e42-fbca-00b4baf2000e@tinka.africa> <1d0be25e-096b-b667-545b-0c624b9f700d@LBSD.net> <40DA7636-A1D7-4226-B8DC-24BCDF6A4884@steffann.nl> <5EAEADDC-9AD9-45B2-ABC7-BCBF6D15D905@steffann.nl> <9745C4A3-5B18-4D1E-8E11-2B116E4BD263@steffann.nl> <5f29d867-954d-b319-f964-7eb56c7d56d0@LBSD.net> Message-ID: Dear AFRINIC Comms, Please do not create confusion within the community. Your email to Nigel was not clear. For your information, more AFRINIC resource members and communication regulators are also being targeted by the NRS campaign if mis-information. And since when was Ernest Byaruhaga the CEO of AFRINIC. Please can AFRINIC clarify if that is true or not because documents being circulated by the Number Resource Society people are purporting as such. Noah On Tue, Sep 28, 2021 at 9:36 AM AFRINIC Communication wrote: > Dear Nigel, > > We thank you for bringing this to our attention. > > The message was not targeted towards you per se but rather those that > produce and propagate such content within the AFRINIC membership and > community. > > We appreciate our community's kind understanding and support. > > Regards, > > AFRINIC Communication > > On 28 Sep 2021, at 08:48, Nigel Kukard wrote: > > > On 9/27/21 12:28, AFRINIC Communication wrote: > > Dear community members, > > AFRINIC has taken note of a post together with a corresponding attachment that contains inaccuracies and presented out of context on this thread (https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-September/004862.html) and was aimed at causing damage and prejudice to AFRINIC as Regional Internet Registry for the African region. > > I was complaining that I too were getting unsolicited mails in a thread > that others were also complaining and providing samples. How is my post out > of context? > > How is me complaining about getting unsolicited mails aimed at causing > damage and prejudice to AFRINIC? > > Why am I being publicly targeted and singled out? > > > AFRINIC wishes to inform its community that the information contained in the said attachment are presently the subject of several ongoing cases involving AFRINIC and Cloud Innovation Ltd as well as an ongoing police investigation in respect of a matter reported for misappropriation of IP number resources. > > Yes, we know that. Your members are complaining about getting unsolicited > communications involving email and phone calls and sharing this with each > other on a *COMMUNITY* mailing list and discussing it. > > > AFRINIC will not comment thereon but reserves its rights to apply its Code of Conduct against all persons making use of its mailing lists for the purposes of causing damage and harm to AFRINIC and to take such action as it may be advised. > > Literally my second post, second complaint about getting unsolicited > communications and I'm being threatened by AFRINIC with action because I'm > causing damage and prejudice to AFRINIC? > > > -N > > > We have also noticed that some community members are not upholding the code of conduct in their exchanges. > > We urge you all to read the AFRINIC Code of Conduct to make sure you are up to date on the processes that safeguard the discussion and community-driven policies at the heart of AFRINIC. > > The code of conduct ensures that discussions are kept professional and that individuals are protected against defamatory, derogatory and personal attacks. > > Please read the following blog post for more information on the AFRINIC Code of Conduct: https://afrinic.net/20200903-code-of-conduct > > > AFRINIC Communication > > > On 26 Sep 2021, at 19:03, Sander Steffann wrote: > > Hi Omo, > > > Thanks. I was trying to understand the dialogue between you and Lu and the "clarification". How do you mean "may be of influence"? > > At AFRINIC meetings I have seen many cases where there was a lot of "steering" (people being sent to the microphones with pre-defined statements they didn't write themselves, but where it was pretended that it was their own opinion) which I have never seen at other RIRs. AFRINIC seems to be unique in the way there are plays for power and influence that are undermining the true bottom-up way, and people seem to accept this as normal. In other regions there is much less hierarchy (we have no CoE for example) and everybody is treated more equally. > > The "power games" I have seen in AFRINIC at all levels (board, management, RPD, community) and the distrust between for example Anglophone and Francophone parts of the community make it very hard to run a true bottom-up system. Such behaviour in AFRINIC and its community make it very vulnerable to top-down influences, because the framework for such influences is already there. > > Cheers, > Sander > > PS: I am only part of the global internet community, not directly of the AFRINIC community. I can therefore only state how I see things from the outside. I am sure there are many things I interpret differently because of my different background. Please do not take offence, I only try to hold up a mirror. I have no personal, commercial or financial stake in AFRINIC, but I do care about the bottom-up principle and fairness. Those are the only reasons I speak up on AFRINIC mailing lists. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark at tinka.africa Tue Sep 28 11:09:45 2021 From: mark at tinka.africa (Mark Tinka) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2021 13:09:45 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] SAFNOG-6 - Eddy Kayihura, AFRINIC CEO, Speaking Shortly Message-ID: Hi all. As per subject: https://safnog.org/virtual-meetings/agenda.html Please join. Thanks. Mark. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Tue Sep 28 16:18:32 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2021 09:18:32 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: References: <83dacfd9-124d-9e42-fbca-00b4baf2000e@tinka.africa> <1d0be25e-096b-b667-545b-0c624b9f700d@LBSD.net> <40DA7636-A1D7-4226-B8DC-24BCDF6A4884@steffann.nl> <5EAEADDC-9AD9-45B2-ABC7-BCBF6D15D905@steffann.nl> <9745C4A3-5B18-4D1E-8E11-2B116E4BD263@steffann.nl> <5f29d867-954d-b319-f964-7eb56c7d56d0@LBSD.net> Message-ID: <560F1CF4-1F2A-4F27-869A-362D37B3F1C7@delong.com> But the ones that produced and propagated the content didn?t violate your CoC either as they didn?t post it to your list. Owen > On Sep 27, 2021, at 23:31 , AFRINIC Communication wrote: > > Dear Nigel, > > We thank you for bringing this to our attention. > > The message was not targeted towards you per se but rather those that produce and propagate such content within the AFRINIC membership and community. > > We appreciate our community's kind understanding and support. > > Regards, > > AFRINIC Communication > >> On 28 Sep 2021, at 08:48, Nigel Kukard > wrote: >> >> >> >> On 9/27/21 12:28, AFRINIC Communication wrote: >>> Dear community members, >>> >>> AFRINIC has taken note of a post together with a corresponding attachment that contains inaccuracies and presented out of context on this thread (https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-September/004862.html ) and was aimed at causing damage and prejudice to AFRINIC as Regional Internet Registry for the African region. >> I was complaining that I too were getting unsolicited mails in a thread that others were also complaining and providing samples. How is my post out of context? >> >> How is me complaining about getting unsolicited mails aimed at causing damage and prejudice to AFRINIC? >> >> Why am I being publicly targeted and singled out? >> >> >> >>> AFRINIC wishes to inform its community that the information contained in the said attachment are presently the subject of several ongoing cases involving AFRINIC and Cloud Innovation Ltd as well as an ongoing police investigation in respect of a matter reported for misappropriation of IP number resources. >> Yes, we know that. Your members are complaining about getting unsolicited communications involving email and phone calls and sharing this with each other on a COMMUNITY mailing list and discussing it. >> >> >> >>> AFRINIC will not comment thereon but reserves its rights to apply its Code of Conduct against all persons making use of its mailing lists for the purposes of causing damage and harm to AFRINIC and to take such action as it may be advised. >> Literally my second post, second complaint about getting unsolicited communications and I'm being threatened by AFRINIC with action because I'm causing damage and prejudice to AFRINIC? >> >> >> >> -N >> >> >> >>> We have also noticed that some community members are not upholding the code of conduct in their exchanges. >>> >>> We urge you all to read the AFRINIC Code of Conduct to make sure you are up to date on the processes that safeguard the discussion and community-driven policies at the heart of AFRINIC. >>> >>> The code of conduct ensures that discussions are kept professional and that individuals are protected against defamatory, derogatory and personal attacks. >>> >>> Please read the following blog post for more information on the AFRINIC Code of Conduct: https://afrinic.net/20200903-code-of-conduct >>> >>> >>> AFRINIC Communication >>> >>>> On 26 Sep 2021, at 19:03, Sander Steffann wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Omo, >>>> >>>>> Thanks. I was trying to understand the dialogue between you and Lu and the "clarification". How do you mean "may be of influence"? >>>> At AFRINIC meetings I have seen many cases where there was a lot of "steering" (people being sent to the microphones with pre-defined statements they didn't write themselves, but where it was pretended that it was their own opinion) which I have never seen at other RIRs. AFRINIC seems to be unique in the way there are plays for power and influence that are undermining the true bottom-up way, and people seem to accept this as normal. In other regions there is much less hierarchy (we have no CoE for example) and everybody is treated more equally. >>>> >>>> The "power games" I have seen in AFRINIC at all levels (board, management, RPD, community) and the distrust between for example Anglophone and Francophone parts of the community make it very hard to run a true bottom-up system. Such behaviour in AFRINIC and its community make it very vulnerable to top-down influences, because the framework for such influences is already there. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Sander >>>> >>>> PS: I am only part of the global internet community, not directly of the AFRINIC community. I can therefore only state how I see things from the outside. I am sure there are many things I interpret differently because of my different background. Please do not take offence, I only try to hold up a mirror. I have no personal, commercial or financial stake in AFRINIC, but I do care about the bottom-up principle and fairness. Those are the only reasons I speak up on AFRINIC mailing lists. >>>> >>> > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jordi.palet at consulintel.es Tue Sep 28 16:45:39 2021 From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2021 18:45:39 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: <560F1CF4-1F2A-4F27-869A-362D37B3F1C7@delong.com> References: <83dacfd9-124d-9e42-fbca-00b4baf2000e@tinka.africa> <1d0be25e-096b-b667-545b-0c624b9f700d@LBSD.net> <40DA7636-A1D7-4226-B8DC-24BCDF6A4884@steffann.nl> <5EAEADDC-9AD9-45B2-ABC7-BCBF6D15D905@steffann.nl> <9745C4A3-5B18-4D1E-8E11-2B116E4BD263@steffann.nl> <5f29d867-954d-b319-f964-7eb56c7d56d0@LBSD.net> <560F1CF4-1F2A-4F27-869A-362D37B3F1C7@delong.com> Message-ID: <8F4AE0BC-60D0-4B84-95FF-788773B37511@consulintel.es> Hi Owen, I?ve been silent till now on till now on all this. However, I must say that you?re right that they didn?t violate the CoC, they did something presumable worst which may constitute criminal offenses (slander, defamation, etc., I?m not sure what is the best way to translate it from my Spanish knowledge about legal language, maybe even several presumable illegal acts and not just one). It is clear that the intent from those documents is to be misread, as they are partial and as such contain untrue information. I just hope that AFRINIC is able to use all that in the actual case or even a new one if required. Note that I don?t agree with all what the Board is doing, and I really believe they took very wrong decisions (I?m even still waiting from Board answers on policy proposals and PDP related discussions for months, with shows a very poor willingness from the Board to resolve issues and cooperate in a productive and efficient manner with the community), but also don?t agree that using partial documents is the way to go. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 28/9/21 18:25, "Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss" escribi?: But the ones that produced and propagated the content didn?t violate your CoC either as they didn?t post it to your list. Owen On Sep 27, 2021, at 23:31 , AFRINIC Communication wrote: Dear Nigel, We thank you for bringing this to our attention. The message was not targeted towards you per se but rather those that produce and propagate such content within the AFRINIC membership and community. We appreciate our community's kind understanding and support. Regards, AFRINIC Communication On 28 Sep 2021, at 08:48, Nigel Kukard wrote: On 9/27/21 12:28, AFRINIC Communication wrote: Dear community members, AFRINIC has? taken note of a post together with a corresponding attachment that contains inaccuracies and presented out of context on this thread (https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-September/004862.html) and was aimed at causing damage and prejudice to AFRINIC as Regional Internet Registry for the African region. I was complaining that I too were getting unsolicited mails in a thread that others were also complaining and providing samples. How is my post out of context? How is me complaining about getting unsolicited mails aimed at causing damage and prejudice to AFRINIC? Why am I being publicly targeted and singled out? AFRINIC wishes to inform its community that the information contained in the said attachment are presently the subject of several ongoing cases involving AFRINIC and Cloud Innovation Ltd as well as an ongoing police investigation in respect of a matter reported for misappropriation of IP number resources. Yes, we know that. Your members are complaining about getting unsolicited communications involving email and phone calls and sharing this with each other on a COMMUNITY mailing list and discussing it. AFRINIC will not comment thereon but reserves its rights to apply its Code of Conduct against all persons making use of its mailing lists for the purposes of causing damage and harm to AFRINIC and to take such action as it may be advised. Literally my second post, second complaint about getting unsolicited communications and I'm being threatened by AFRINIC with action because I'm causing damage and prejudice to AFRINIC? -N We have also noticed that some community members are not upholding the code of conduct in their exchanges. We urge you all to read the AFRINIC Code of Conduct to make sure you are up to date on the processes that safeguard the discussion and community-driven policies at the heart of AFRINIC. The code of conduct ensures that discussions are kept professional and that individuals are protected against defamatory, derogatory and personal attacks. Please read the following blog post for more information on the AFRINIC Code of Conduct: https://afrinic.net/20200903-code-of-conduct AFRINIC Communication On 26 Sep 2021, at 19:03, Sander Steffann wrote: Hi Omo, Thanks.? I was trying to understand the dialogue between you and Lu and the "clarification".? How do you mean "may be of influence"??? At AFRINIC meetings I have seen many cases where there was a lot of "steering" (people being sent to the microphones with pre-defined statements they didn't write themselves, but where it was pretended that it was their own opinion) which I have never seen at other RIRs. AFRINIC seems to be unique in the way there are plays for power and influence that are undermining the true bottom-up way, and people seem to accept this as normal. In other regions there is much less hierarchy (we have no CoE for example) and everybody is treated more equally. The "power games" I have seen in AFRINIC at all levels (board, management, RPD, community) and the distrust between for example Anglophone and Francophone parts of the community make it very hard to run a true bottom-up system. Such behaviour in AFRINIC and its community make it very vulnerable to top-down influences, because the framework for such influences is already there. Cheers, Sander PS: I am only part of the global internet community, not directly of the AFRINIC community. I can therefore only state how I see things from the outside. I am sure there are many things I interpret differently because of my different background. Please do not take offence, I only try to hold up a mirror. I have no personal, commercial or financial stake in AFRINIC, but I do care about the bottom-up principle and fairness. Those are the only reasons I speak up on AFRINIC mailing lists. _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Tue Sep 28 18:17:53 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2021 11:17:53 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Lu Heng + Larus and the Number Resource Society In-Reply-To: <8F4AE0BC-60D0-4B84-95FF-788773B37511@consulintel.es> References: <83dacfd9-124d-9e42-fbca-00b4baf2000e@tinka.africa> <1d0be25e-096b-b667-545b-0c624b9f700d@LBSD.net> <40DA7636-A1D7-4226-B8DC-24BCDF6A4884@steffann.nl> <5EAEADDC-9AD9-45B2-ABC7-BCBF6D15D905@steffann.nl> <9745C4A3-5B18-4D1E-8E11-2B116E4BD263@steffann.nl> <5f29d867-954d-b319-f964-7eb56c7d56d0@LBSD.net> <560F1CF4-1F2A-4F27-869A-362D37B3F1C7@delong.com> <8F4AE0BC-60D0-4B84-95FF-788773B37511@consulintel.es> Message-ID: <55A36136-2ABF-4280-A31C-9932CD901B9E@delong.com> > On Sep 28, 2021, at 09:45 , JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote: > > Hi Owen, > > I?ve been silent till now on till now on all this. > > However, I must say that you?re right that they didn?t violate the CoC, they did something presumable worst which may constitute criminal offenses (slander, defamation, etc., I?m not sure what is the best way to translate it from my Spanish knowledge about legal language, maybe even several presumable illegal acts and not just one). Really? Point to the exact criminal content, please. > It is clear that the intent from those documents is to be misread, as they are partial and as such contain untrue information. What information is untrue, exactly? > I just hope that AFRINIC is able to use all that in the actual case or even a new one if required. I suspect that?s unlikely as I think you have badly misjudged the situation. > Note that I don?t agree with all what the Board is doing, and I really believe they took very wrong decisions (I?m even still waiting from Board answers on policy proposals and PDP related discussions for months, with shows a very poor willingness from the Board to resolve issues and cooperate in a productive and efficient manner with the community), but also don?t agree that using partial documents is the way to go. Everyone uses partial documents? I?ve removed much of the earlier conversation below in this email, for example. Are you going to attempt to call that slander or defamation? 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