[Community-Discuss] Share About Cloud Innovation Ltd and their business

JORDI PALET MARTINEZ jordi.palet at consulintel.es
Tue Jul 27 19:30:31 UTC 2021

This will be very simple to resolve (not taking a position in one side or the other because I don't have all the real facts and documents).

The original justificacion of the request of the resources I don't think it had so many "secret" and "confidential" details. After several years if any "secrets" were there, probably aren't longer something that can't published now.

So why not CI, voluntarely publish that information? I don't have any stance on this game, but if I was CI, this will be the best way to probe my points.

Otherwise, I will suggest that AFRINIC asks the court to incorporate that in the proceedings if is not there already, this way, whatever is the result of the case, everybody will know it. At least in the countries I know, the results of the cases are public, as well as the documents that were incorporated during all the process: transparency.


El 27/7/21 21:12, "Frank Habicht" <geier at geier.ne.tz> escribió:

Hi Owen,

On 27/07/2021 19:09, Owen DeLong wrote:
>> On Jul 27, 2021, at 00:26 , Frank Habicht <geier at geier.ne.tz> wrote:
>>> It also serves more end users than the population of all of those
>>> countries combined. What is your point?
>> "serves" ...?
> Yes.>> with connectivity?
> In some cases.

I'll just mentally insert the word "few" in there, because i haven't
seen any yet.

>> Or by "buying" IPv4 addresses one place and "selling"/leasing them
>> another place.
> By providing a variety of services, some of which include IP address management
> independent of connectivity.

"variety of services"
So my first thought was to press <shift> and the key between v and n
and then <shift> and the key between a and d

gosh, at the risk of getting my hand slapped, just to make sure i'm
understood : BS - bullshit!

"IP address management"
putting something into AfriNIC's Whois / IRR ?
reverse DNS delegations?
[ probably only at extra cost (wild guess) ]
Using AfriNIC's auth DNS servers, by just updating domain: objects?

>> this is to me closer to speculation than the stated intention of
>> 1. the resource we take are using in africa.
>> 2. we are investing in africa.
> We are definitely investing in Africa. That statement remains true.

No doubt.
Lawyers in Mauritius.

> Regarding the former statement, things do change over time.

Also validity of justifications of IPv4 space.
I maintain this:
- I have no idea how it was justified.
- I have no right to see this justification.
- I consider it likely that commitments have been made.
- I consider it likely that not all were - and still are - fulfilled.

> At the time the statement was made, it was true.

I do currently believe that.

> Today, the statement “many of the resources we received from AFRINIC are being used in Africa” would be more accurate.

I'm still not too sure about my English knowledge. Especially about
"many". I generally encourage people to be as specific as possible.
Can I interpret this as "more than three IPv4 addresses we received from
AFRINIC are being used in Africa” ?

>> which is a quote from
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2014/004161.html
> Yes… It’s a 7 year old statement which was true at the time.

And I believe so was the justification for IPv4 addresses - at the time.
Currently, I believe that. That back then the justification was ok.

>> and which I understand was good reason to receive IPv4 addresses.
>> *was*
>> when it was true.
> And today, a good reason to keep the addresses is:
> We use the addresses to number internet connected hosts on our own and our customers networks.

"own network" ?
I believe that in your home area it would be a very valid question to
ask: "which AS is that?" (ie on nanog)

"customers networks."
"customer" certainly not in terms of connectivity.
[ to be specific: for 99% of traffic towards these IPs [1], I hazard the
guess that it doesn't pass through CI connectivity.]

but "customer" instead only in terms of leasing IP addresses.
which you (CI) got the right to do when getting them from AfriNIC in the
first place??? I beg to doubt!!!

And I think this is what it's all about. CI interpretation vs AfriNIC
interpretation. And I think that latter is shared with a majority of the

> This is a perfectly valid justification for addresses and there is no basis in current policy to deny it and
> it remains a true statement to this day.

it was a perfectly valid justification to provide addresses to CI's
"customers" - without the "customers" receiving (for all the duration of
the lease) any services but the lease of IPv4 addresses (not counting
BS-"IP address management"), and with that fact (of leasing) being
stated in said justification - and this accepted as justification at the
time by AfriNIC,
I rest my case.


PS: sorry for the long sentence, it seems my mind turned "legal".

"these IPs":
2x /11 and 2x /12

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