From rfg at tristatelogic.com  Mon Feb  1 01:12:25 2021
From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette)
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2021 17:12:25 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [afnog] Updates on the misappropriation of
	IPv4 resources
In-Reply-To: <3C3DABEA-B235-4233-ACB1-B9FE9E60E3B6@delong.com>
Message-ID: <12544.1612141945@segfault.tristatelogic.com>

FYI - Noah confessed to me privately that that message he just posted
was one he drafted some long time ago, but it sitting there, pending,
on a laptop that he had not turned on for some weeks.

In message <3C3DABEA-B235-4233-ACB1-B9FE9E60E3B6 at delong.com>, 
Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:

>Disclosure to AfriNIC privately is an option and RFG has not stated to what
>extent he has or hasn't done so.

I have already disclosed on this mailing list 100% of the AFRINIC administered
IP address blocks that I have had reason to believe may have been either stolen
or squatted.

I haven't really had time to check, but my assumption is that 100% of these
have also been mentioned in the recent official AFRINIC report regarding
WHOIS accuracy.  (I hope so anyway.)

Some other information relating to how all of this may have about... information
which may or may not be accurate, and which may or may not even be directly related
to these matters has been disclosed, by me, confidentially, to Eddy.

When and if I feel that this additional information is even worthy of being
shared I will do so.

Note that it is fundamentally the responsibility of AFRINIC management and the
Board to disclose how such a colossal mass of both free pool and legacy space
came to have been purloined, over a period of serveral YEARS, apparently with
no one in a position of authority, with the exception of Ernest, even noticing
that anything was amiss, despite repeated warnings from both myself and others.

As President John F. Kennedy once said "Success had a thousand fathers, but
failure is an orphan."  So it is in this case.  Other than Ernest, who had no
real choice in the matter, no other AFRINIC official or employee has been held
to account for any part of this colossal and, sadly, still ongoing calamity.


Regards,
rfg



From comms at afrinic.net  Tue Feb  2 11:17:34 2021
From: comms at afrinic.net (AFRINIC Communication)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 15:17:34 +0400
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Call for Comments on the AFRINIC Mailing Lists
	Terms of Use
Message-ID: <6A2D84B5-854F-42EA-BEA5-074B72782119@afrinic.net>

Dear colleagues,

AFRINIC acts as the secretariat and facilitator to support community discussions and the policy development process. To deliver on this mandate, AFRINIC provides a number of inclusive, transparent and open platforms that include public meetings and mailing lists.

Following complaints received from several community members on the virulence of exchanges on AFRINIC mailing lists and the growing number of one-off posts from incognito aliases that the community dubbed as ?Internet trolls?, we published a blog in September 2020 on the Code of Conduct. https://afrinic.net/20200903-code-of-conduct <https://afrinic.net/20200903-code-of-conduct>

Unfortunately, that did not act as a deterrent and consequently, the subscription of one subscriber to our Community mailing list was revoked following previous warning issued to the latter.

(https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2020-October/003736.html <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2020-October/003736.html>)

We are also awaiting the feedback from the Governance Committee pertaining to two requests made by the AFRINIC CEO in August 2020:

- Violation of Code of Conduct on Community mailing list [https://afrinic.net/govcom/request#GC2020.04 <https://afrinic.net/govcom/request#GC2020.04>]

-  Code of Conduct Review [https://afrinic.net/govcom/request#GC2020.05 <https://afrinic.net/govcom/request#GC2020.05>].

In the meantime, however, AFRINIC has been working on a plan of actions that will allow for verification and authentication of users of its mailing lists in our effort to safeguard the community from being subject to inappropriate behaviours. As a first step, we have developed a new set of AFRINIC Mailing Lists Terms of Use that will govern one?s subscription to AFRINIC mailing lists.

https://afrinic.net/20210202-afrinic-mailinglists-terms-of-use <https://afrinic.net/20210202-afrinic-mailinglists-terms-of-use>

In this respect, we hereby invite you to provide us with your valuable feedback on the aforesaid AFRINIC Mailing Lists Terms of Use in the comments section of the page (https://afrinic.net/20210202-afrinic-mailinglists-terms-of-use <https://afrinic.net/20210202-afrinic-mailinglists-terms-of-use>).

We look forward to receiving your feedback by 28 February 2021.

AFRINIC shall consider your input and thereafter, take such actions as it may deem appropriate.

Ashil Oogarah
On behalf of the AFRINIC Communications and PR Team
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From comms at afrinic.net  Tue Feb  2 11:30:28 2021
From: comms at afrinic.net (AFRINIC Communication)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 15:30:28 +0400
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Call for Comments on the AFRINIC Mailing
 Lists Terms of Use
In-Reply-To: <6A2D84B5-854F-42EA-BEA5-074B72782119@afrinic.net>
References: <6A2D84B5-854F-42EA-BEA5-074B72782119@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <78B0B9A0-D775-495F-AC5C-48CE92265001@afrinic.net>

[French Version below]

[Version en fran?ais au bas]

Chers coll?gues,

L'AFRINIC fait office de secr?tariat et de facilitateur pour soutenir les discussions communautaires et le processus d'?laboration des politiques. Pour remplir ce mandat, AFRINIC fournit un certain nombre de plateformes inclusives, transparentes et ouvertes qui comprennent des r?unions publiques et des listes de diffusion.

Suite aux plaintes re?ues de plusieurs membres de la communaut? sur la virulence des ?changes sur les listes de diffusion d'AFRINIC et le nombre croissant de messages isol?s provenant d'alias incognito que la communaut? a surnomm?s " Internet trolls", nous avons publi? un blog en septembre 2020 sur le Code de conduite. https://afrinic.net/20200903-code-of-conduct

Malheureusement, cela n'a pas eu d'effet dissuasif et, par cons?quent, l'inscription d'un abonn? ? notre liste de diffusion communautaire a ?t? r?voqu?e ? la suite d'un pr?c?dent avertissement adress? ? ce dernier.

(https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2020-October/003736.html)

Nous attendons ?galement les r?actions du comit? de gouvernance concernant deux demandes faites par le DG d'AFRINIC en ao?t 2020 :

- Violation du code de conduite sur la liste de diffusion communautaire [https://afrinic.net/govcom/request#GC2020.04]

- R?vision du code de conduite [https://afrinic.net/govcom/request#GC2020.05].

Toutefois, AFRINIC a travaill? sur un plan d'action qui permettra la v?rification et l'authentification des utilisateurs de ses listes de diffusion dans notre effort pour prot?ger la communaut? contre les comportements inappropri?s. Dans un premier temps, nous avons ?labor? un nouveau cadre pour les conditions d'utilisation des listes de diffusion AFRINIC qui r?gira l'abonnement aux listes de diffusion AFRINIC.

https://afrinic.net/20210202-afrinic-mailinglists-terms-of-use

? cet ?gard, nous vous invitons ? nous faire part de vos pr?cieux commentaires sur les conditions d'utilisation des listes de diffusion AFRINIC  dans la section "Commentaires" de la page (https://afrinic.net/20210202-afrinic-mailinglists-terms-of-use).

Nous attendons avec impatience de recevoir vos commentaires d'ici le 28 f?vrier 2021.

AFRINIC tiendra compte de vos commentaires et prendra ensuite les mesures qu'elle jugera appropri?es.

Ashil Oogarah
Au nom de l'?quipe AFRINIC Communications et RP


> On 2 Feb 2021, at 15:17, AFRINIC Communication <comms at afrinic.net> wrote:
> 
> Dear colleagues,
> 
> AFRINIC acts as the secretariat and facilitator to support community discussions and the policy development process. To deliver on this mandate, AFRINIC provides a number of inclusive, transparent and open platforms that include public meetings and mailing lists.
> 
> Following complaints received from several community members on the virulence of exchanges on AFRINIC mailing lists and the growing number of one-off posts from incognito aliases that the community dubbed as ?Internet trolls?, we published a blog in September 2020 on the Code of Conduct. https://afrinic.net/20200903-code-of-conduct <https://afrinic.net/20200903-code-of-conduct>
> 
> Unfortunately, that did not act as a deterrent and consequently, the subscription of one subscriber to our Community mailing list was revoked following previous warning issued to the latter.
> 
> (https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2020-October/003736.html <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2020-October/003736.html>)
> 
> We are also awaiting the feedback from the Governance Committee pertaining to two requests made by the AFRINIC CEO in August 2020:
> 
> - Violation of Code of Conduct on Community mailing list [https://afrinic.net/govcom/request#GC2020.04 <https://afrinic.net/govcom/request#GC2020.04>]
> 
> -  Code of Conduct Review [https://afrinic.net/govcom/request#GC2020.05 <https://afrinic.net/govcom/request#GC2020.05>].
> 
> In the meantime, however, AFRINIC has been working on a plan of actions that will allow for verification and authentication of users of its mailing lists in our effort to safeguard the community from being subject to inappropriate behaviours. As a first step, we have developed a new set of AFRINIC Mailing Lists Terms of Use that will govern one?s subscription to AFRINIC mailing lists.
> 
> https://afrinic.net/20210202-afrinic-mailinglists-terms-of-use <https://afrinic.net/20210202-afrinic-mailinglists-terms-of-use>
> 
> In this respect, we hereby invite you to provide us with your valuable feedback on the aforesaid AFRINIC Mailing Lists Terms of Use in the comments section of the page (https://afrinic.net/20210202-afrinic-mailinglists-terms-of-use <https://afrinic.net/20210202-afrinic-mailinglists-terms-of-use>).
> 
> We look forward to receiving your feedback by 28 February 2021.
> 
> AFRINIC shall consider your input and thereafter, take such actions as it may deem appropriate.
> 
> Ashil Oogarah
> On behalf of the AFRINIC Communications and PR Team
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

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From noah at neo.co.tz  Tue Feb  2 12:29:19 2021
From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 15:29:19 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Notice to all the legacy netblocks holders
	in AfriNIC
In-Reply-To: <6DFCD6C0-6AAB-4FDB-AE33-4177BE618F33@delong.com>
References: <05751329-1002-4A8C-9CB0-318882CB984E@me.com>
 <49298.1604105023@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
 <CAEqgTWYqYddNikKzswv+RA18bBfe3or=aW0wv8Q_Z_yYPFbtrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <6DFCD6C0-6AAB-4FDB-AE33-4177BE618F33@delong.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqgTWYRGohNy4byFNf+m-7ntNU-U60deOZPnWDCfvY8QS00jQ@mail.gmail.com>

Owen,

On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 8:48 PM Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:

> What is more baffling is that its a lot of space and guess what, the
> members doesn't seem to have a known ASN.
>
>
> Please point me to the section of the CPM which requires a member holding
> IPv4 number resources to have an ASN.
>

The CPM does not impose that a member holding IPv4 should have an ASN since
there are valid scenarios for not having an ASN.


FWIW, an LIR in Afrinic documentation means: ?*Any Network Operator that
provides Internet services to distinct end-users and end-sites.*? In the
same context, LIRs are allocated  IPv4 space of type Provider Aggregatable
?Allocated PA?.


While an LIR may not have the need to run BGP and express unique routing
policy distinct from the ones of its providers, there is a requirement to
operate a network and offer internet services which use the IP addresses
assigned to the end-users. Such a scenario is easily traceable and provable.


This is not the case here, where an LIR does not run a network to serve the
users to whom IP addresses are assigned to. We?ve seen LoA's and hijacking
and misappropriation of the ASNs by those trying to use these
"assignments". The evidence is publicly available.


Maybe the conversation to have is about the type of network and services
this LIR is operating and offering, to determine if they need an ASN or not.


Cheers,

Noah
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From jordi.palet at consulintel.es  Tue Feb  2 13:41:07 2021
From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2021 14:41:07 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Call for Comments on the AFRINIC Mailing
 Lists Terms of Use
In-Reply-To: <6A2D84B5-854F-42EA-BEA5-074B72782119@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <672EB4DA-3D8E-4563-A6D4-CC10B272800E@consulintel.es>

Hi Ashil, all,

 

I?ve several issues here:

 
The AUP (Acceptable Usage Policy) of the RPD mailing list can only be developed as a policy, following the PDP. This is a community task and not any committee or board or anything like that.
I?m not convinced, in legal terms, if you can enforce ?AFRINIC? privacy policy to subscribers outside of Mauritius. I don?t see either, the benefit of that, as I just re-read the privacy policy and only affects the AFRINIC obligations, not the ?users?.
While I will love the idea of everybody using their real name and email when contributing to mailing list, I think that breaks many aspects related to the way we work in the RIR communities and asking for that will be against bottom-up and openness concepts. We have discussed this many times. The community is composed by individuals, not organizations. However, the participants often work for organizations related to the Internet sectors. That means that if we make mandatory every poster to use their real name:
Maybe his/her ?everybody life name? is not available for registration in free mail servers, so you discriminate them.
Maybe his/her personal opinions are contradictory with the ones from the organization is employing him. So, either he/she is exposed to being fired if express his personal view in the list, or we are not anymore open and acting against freedom of expression, as we are not allowing him to express freely in the lists.
A is easily solvable with a different wording in point 3 of the Mailings lists terms of use (for example, the signature must include the same name being used in everyday life), but B is not.

An alternative, which also requires a clearer wording for point 3, is that AFRINIC will verify every subscriber, without publicly disclosing that date, and for that, the subscription process will request the real name (never disclosed), and some kind of ID. Those subscribers that for employee reasons need to be registered twice (with different emails), will need to identify themselves and their employer, and if the mailing list is used for elections (as it happened last time), they will only be able to vote once. Further to that, when they change work, they will need to notify it, to avoid anyone taking his email without proper identification (a new employee, etc., which will be point 5 on your terms of use). Can you see how complex is all this?
The above point also requires modification of point 3 in the terms of use.
You?re missing explicit mention of publication of conference information, Call for Papers, etc. In all the RIRs, in general it is outside of the scope of the RIR mailing lists, at least most of them.
Similarly, you?re missing electoral information. It is ok to publish information for/against any election?s candidates? Or only in some mailing lists and which ones?
 

Clearly this requires a more extensive work and being more specific about which mailing lists, because as said, not all them are the same.

 

Regarding my input number 3 above. If we are talking about the policy mailing list, I know by facts, that some of the opinions and objections to my own policy proposals, have been made by puppets (which will be against point 9 of the mailing list terms of use) and others have been made by trolls, so in other words, looking for manipulation of the PDP and business interest, instead of individuals, which is against the PDP as is solely community based.

 

Despite that, I still think that enforcing the participants to use ?publicly? their own name will be against the full concept of the PDP and Internet open community.

 

And once more, if AFRINIC can find a way that allow to identify people, but then they can use either their real name or an alias (so to avoid problems with the employer, I?m fine, but I don?t see how that can be done.

 

 

 

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 2/2/21 12:34, "AFRINIC Communication" <comms at afrinic.net> escribi?:

 

Dear colleagues,

AFRINIC acts as the secretariat and facilitator to support community discussions and the policy development process. To deliver on this mandate, AFRINIC provides a number of inclusive, transparent and open platforms that include public meetings and mailing lists.

Following complaints received from several community members on the virulence of exchanges on AFRINIC mailing lists and the growing number of one-off posts from incognito aliases that the community dubbed as ?Internet trolls?, we published a blog in September 2020 on the Code of Conduct. https://afrinic.net/20200903-code-of-conduct

Unfortunately, that did not act as a deterrent and consequently, the subscription of one subscriber to our Community mailing list was revoked following previous warning issued to the latter.

(https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2020-October/003736.html)

We are also awaiting the feedback from the Governance Committee pertaining to two requests made by the AFRINIC CEO in August 2020:

- Violation of Code of Conduct on Community mailing list [https://afrinic.net/govcom/request#GC2020.04]

-  Code of Conduct Review [https://afrinic.net/govcom/request#GC2020.05].

In the meantime, however, AFRINIC has been working on a plan of actions that will allow for verification and authentication of users of its mailing lists in our effort to safeguard the community from being subject to inappropriate behaviours. As a first step, we have developed a new set of AFRINIC Mailing Lists Terms of Use that will govern one?s subscription to AFRINIC mailing lists.

https://afrinic.net/20210202-afrinic-mailinglists-terms-of-use

In this respect, we hereby invite you to provide us with your valuable feedback on the aforesaid AFRINIC Mailing Lists Terms of Use in the comments section of the page (https://afrinic.net/20210202-afrinic-mailinglists-terms-of-use).

We look forward to receiving your feedback by 28 February 2021.

AFRINIC shall consider your input and thereafter, take such actions as it may deem appropriate.

Ashil Oogarah
On behalf of the AFRINIC Communications and PR Team

_______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss 



**********************************************
IPv4 is over
Are you ready for the new Internet ?
http://www.theipv6company.com
The IPv6 Company

This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.

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From comms at afrinic.net  Wed Feb  3 09:25:52 2021
From: comms at afrinic.net (AFRINIC Communication)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 13:25:52 +0400
Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC and ATU sign a MoU to seal their
	Collaboration
Message-ID: <F172DAE4-A43B-478E-9610-6006F83E6843@afrinic.net>

[Version en fran?ais au bas] 

Dear colleagues,

AFRINIC is pleased to announce it has sealed its collaboration through the signature of a MoU with the African Telecommunications Union.

Please read more on this collaboration: https://afrinic.net/20210202-afrinic-atu-mou

AFRINIC Communications Team

??????????????????????????????

Chers coll?gues,

AFRINIC a le plaisir d'annoncer qu'il a scell? sa collaboration par la signature d'un protocole d'accord avec l'Union africaine des t?l?communications.

Pour en savoir plus sur cette collaboration : https://afrinic.net/20210202-afrinic-atu-mou

?quipe de communication AFRINIC




.









From rfg at tristatelogic.com  Thu Feb  4 02:54:50 2021
From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette)
Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2021 18:54:50 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Call for Comments on the AFRINIC Mailing
	Lists Terms of Use
In-Reply-To: <6A2D84B5-854F-42EA-BEA5-074B72782119@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <31981.1612407290@segfault.tristatelogic.com>

In message <6A2D84B5-854F-42EA-BEA5-074B72782119 at afrinic.net>, 
AFRINIC Communication <comms at afrinic.net> wrote:

>Following complaints received from several community members on the
>virulence of exchanges on AFRINIC mailing lists and the growing number
>of one-off posts from incognito aliases that the community dubbed as
>"Internet trolls"...

Please note that a "troll" and what is usually refered to as a "sock
puppet" are two different things.

I cannot speak to the issue of "trolls" per se, but I would just like
to mention some historical RIPE WHOIS information which was sent to me
recently and which seems to suggests that a person who recently posted
some really quite inflamitory posts to this list, soliciting for people
and/or companies that might want to sue AFRINIC, may not have been quite
what he seemed:

https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2020-December/003862.html

https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-January/003868.html

A simple Google search for a "Ron Robario" turns up nothing at all,
suggesting that this identity may have been artificially manufactured,
rather than being one that belongs to an actual human being with an
actual life history.

It has been brought to my attention that this same mystery person, who
seems to be non-existant as far as a simple Google search is concerned,
may actually be an employee or a sock puppet of Deepak Mehta's Fiber Grid.

Here is a purported relevant historical RIPE WHOIS record dating from the
2012-2013 time frame:

person:          Ron Robario
address:         Kalmar SE
phone:           +46700905277
nic-hdl:         RON24-RIPE
mnt-by:          mnt-fibergrid
changed:         info at fibergrid.net 20120901
source:          RIPE

Note that since the time (2012-2013) during which the above record was present
in the RIPE WHOIS data base, most or all of the related RIPE WHOIS records
have been disappeared from the RIPE data base.  For example records for the
RON24-RIPE handle and for the MNT-FIBERGRID handle, together with any and all
of the other records whose mnt-by was set to MNT-FIBERGRID have been swept
clean out of the RIPE WHOIS data base.

Perhaps the mysterious Mr. Robario would like to explain all this, and most
specifically his connection(s) to Mr. Mehta's Fiber Grid, Inc. (Seychelles)
as well as the 1+ million IPv4 addresses that Mr. Mehta somehow brilliantly
finagled out of AFRINIC (and which AFRINIC has not yet reclaimed) to wit:

165.231.0.0/16
196.48.0.0/16
196.56.0.0/16
196.57.0.0/16
196.58.0.0/16
196.59.0.0/16
196.196.0.0/16
196.197.0.0/16
196.198.0.0/16
196.199.0.0/16
196.240.0.0/15
196.242.0.0/15
196.244.0.0/16
196.245.0.0/16
196.247.0.0/16

The above blocks, all assigned to ORG-FGI1-AFRINIC, comprise some 1,114,112
individual IPv4 addresses, none of which, at my last check, were being routed
anywhere near the AFRINIC region.

Current open market value of all of the above is estimated at around $27.2
million USD, based on a current market price of $1.6 million per /16 block.


Regards,
rfg


P.S.  For those of you who may not already be aware, the email address
ronrobarionet at protonmail.com is serviced by a company in Switzerland,
Protonmail, that specializes in providing anonymous and untracable email
accounts.



From comms at afrinic.net  Thu Feb  4 07:40:05 2021
From: comms at afrinic.net (AFRINIC Communication)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 11:40:05 +0400
Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Lancement_du_cours_=22IPv6_Foundati?=
 =?utf-8?q?ons=22_en_Fran=C3=A7ais?=
Message-ID: <44D77DFE-CC7A-4AF2-AB14-1D7D7F4F0A4D@afrinic.net>

[English version below]

Chers coll?gues,
 
AFRINIC a le plaisir d'annoncer le lancement du cours en ligne "IPv6 Foundations". Gr?ce ? ce cours, vous allez acqu?rir une base solide des principes de la mise en r?seau IPv6, et ? la fin du cours, vous devriez ?tre en mesure de:
 
            - Expliquer les raisons pour lesquelles le d?ploiement d'IPv6 est essentiel ? la croissance de l'Internet
            - Identifier les diff?rents types d'adresses IPv6 et leurs cas d'utilisation
            - D?crire comment sont g?n?r?s les identificateurs d'interface EUI-64, s?mantiquement opaques et pseudo-al?atoires
            - ?num?rer les diff?rences entre IPv6 et IPv4 au niveau des paquets
            - Expliquer l'utilisation des en-t?tes d'extension IPv6
            - Identifier les ?quivalents IPv6 pour chaque fonctionnalit? IPv4 que vous utilisez dans votre r?seau.

    Ce cours est maintenant ouvert ? l'inscription sur:  https://academy.afrinic.net/courses/fondamentaux-sur-IPv6

On behalf of AFRINIC Capacity Building Team
 
???????????????????

Launch of the IPv6 Foundations Course in French

Dear colleagues,

AFRINIC is pleased to announce the launch of the e-learning course "IPv6 Foundations (French Version)". Through this course, you will build a solid foundation in IPv6 networking principles, and by the end of the course you should be able to:
 
            - Explain why the deployment of IPv6 is essential for the growth of the Internet
            - Identify the different types of IPv6 addresses and their use cases
            - Describe how EUI-64, semantically opaque and pseudo-random interface identifiers are generated 
            - List the differences between IPv6 and IPv4 at the packet level
            - Explain the use of IPv6 extension headers
            - Identify the IPv6 equivalents for each IPv4 feature you use in your network.
  
  This course is now open for registration at https://academy.afrinic.net/courses/fondamentaux-sur-IPv6.

An nom du Capacity Building Team d'AFRINIC


From nkurunziza1999 at yahoo.fr  Thu Feb  4 07:57:38 2021
From: nkurunziza1999 at yahoo.fr (Jean Paul NKURUNZIZA)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 07:57:38 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Community-Discuss]
 =?utf-8?q?Lancement_du_cours_=22IPv6_Foundati?=
 =?utf-8?q?ons=22_en_Fran=C3=A7ais?=
In-Reply-To: <44D77DFE-CC7A-4AF2-AB14-1D7D7F4F0A4D@afrinic.net>
References: <44D77DFE-CC7A-4AF2-AB14-1D7D7F4F0A4D@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <1862610102.88494.1612425458806@mail.yahoo.com>

Bonjour, 

Merci pour ce message. 

Est ce qu'une personne ayant tr?s peu de connaissances techniques en mati?re de r?seaux informatique peut participer ? ce cours ?
Cordialement

NKURUNZIZA Jean Paul 

TRAINER IN COMPUTING AND INTERNET POLICY

?Burundi Youth Training Centre : Vice Pr?sident 
 Skype : jpnkurunziz 

 Facebook :? http://www.facebook.com/jeanpaul.nkurunziza
? 
Twitter : @nkurunzizajp

Linkedin : linkedin.com/in/jean-paul-nkurunziza-88217235

Tel : +257 79 981459 

    Le jeudi 4 f?vrier 2021 ? 09:40:53 UTC+2, AFRINIC Communication <comms at afrinic.net> a ?crit :  
 
 [English version below]

Chers coll?gues,
 
AFRINIC a le plaisir d'annoncer le lancement du cours en ligne "IPv6 Foundations". Gr?ce ? ce cours, vous allez acqu?rir une base solide des principes de la mise en r?seau IPv6, et ? la fin du cours, vous devriez ?tre en mesure de:
 
? ? ? ? ? ? - Expliquer les raisons pour lesquelles le d?ploiement d'IPv6 est essentiel ? la croissance de l'Internet
? ? ? ? ? ? - Identifier les diff?rents types d'adresses IPv6 et leurs cas d'utilisation
? ? ? ? ? ? - D?crire comment sont g?n?r?s les identificateurs d'interface EUI-64, s?mantiquement opaques et pseudo-al?atoires
? ? ? ? ? ? - ?num?rer les diff?rences entre IPv6 et IPv4 au niveau des paquets
? ? ? ? ? ? - Expliquer l'utilisation des en-t?tes d'extension IPv6
? ? ? ? ? ? - Identifier les ?quivalents IPv6 pour chaque fonctionnalit? IPv4 que vous utilisez dans votre r?seau.

? ? Ce cours est maintenant ouvert ? l'inscription sur:? https://academy.afrinic.net/courses/fondamentaux-sur-IPv6

On behalf of AFRINIC Capacity Building Team
 
???????????????????

Launch of the IPv6 Foundations Course in French

Dear colleagues,

AFRINIC is pleased to announce the launch of the e-learning course "IPv6 Foundations (French Version)". Through this course, you will build a solid foundation in IPv6 networking principles, and by the end of the course you should be able to:
 
? ? ? ? ? ? - Explain why the deployment of IPv6 is essential for the growth of the Internet
? ? ? ? ? ? - Identify the different types of IPv6 addresses and their use cases
? ? ? ? ? ? - Describe how EUI-64, semantically opaque and pseudo-random interface identifiers are generated 
? ? ? ? ? ? - List the differences between IPv6 and IPv4 at the packet level
? ? ? ? ? ? - Explain the use of IPv6 extension headers
? ? ? ? ? ? - Identify the IPv6 equivalents for each IPv4 feature you use in your network.
? 
? This course is now open for registration at https://academy.afrinic.net/courses/fondamentaux-sur-IPv6.

An nom du Capacity Building Team d'AFRINIC
_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
  
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From comms at afrinic.net  Thu Feb  4 09:22:26 2021
From: comms at afrinic.net (AFRINIC Communication)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 13:22:26 +0400
Subject: [Community-Discuss]
 =?utf-8?q?Lancement_du_cours_=22IPv6_Foundati?=
 =?utf-8?q?ons=22_en_Fran=C3=A7ais?=
In-Reply-To: <1862610102.88494.1612425458806@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <44D77DFE-CC7A-4AF2-AB14-1D7D7F4F0A4D@afrinic.net>
 <1862610102.88494.1612425458806@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <647B7C32-4187-4B33-9227-43E437A9F520@afrinic.net>

Bonjour Jean Paul,

Oui, vous pouvez vous joindre au cours. Le cours est destin? aux d?butants et ? ceux qui sont int?ress?s d'acqu?rir des connaissances sur l?IPv6.

Cordialement,

Ashil


> On 4 Feb 2021, at 11:57, Jean Paul NKURUNZIZA via Community-Discuss <community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote:
> 
> Bonjour, 
> 
> Merci pour ce message. 
> 
> Est ce qu'une personne ayant tr?s peu de connaissances techniques en mati?re de r?seaux informatique peut participer ? ce cours ?
> 
> Cordialement
> 
> NKURUNZIZA Jean Paul 
> 
> TRAINER IN COMPUTING AND INTERNET POLICY
> 
>  Burundi Youth Training Centre : Vice Pr?sident
> 
> Skype : jpnkurunziz 
> 
> Facebook :  http://www.facebook.com/jeanpaul.nkurunziza
>   
> Twitter : @nkurunzizajp 
> 
> Linkedin : linkedin.com/in/jean-paul-nkurunziza-88217235
> 
> Tel : +257 79 981459
> 
> 
> Le jeudi 4 f?vrier 2021 ? 09:40:53 UTC+2, AFRINIC Communication <comms at afrinic.net> a ?crit :
> 
> 
> [English version below]
> 
> Chers coll?gues,
> 
> AFRINIC a le plaisir d'annoncer le lancement du cours en ligne "IPv6 Foundations". Gr?ce ? ce cours, vous allez acqu?rir une base solide des principes de la mise en r?seau IPv6, et ? la fin du cours, vous devriez ?tre en mesure de:
> 
>             - Expliquer les raisons pour lesquelles le d?ploiement d'IPv6 est essentiel ? la croissance de l'Internet
>             - Identifier les diff?rents types d'adresses IPv6 et leurs cas d'utilisation
>             - D?crire comment sont g?n?r?s les identificateurs d'interface EUI-64, s?mantiquement opaques et pseudo-al?atoires
>             - ?num?rer les diff?rences entre IPv6 et IPv4 au niveau des paquets
>             - Expliquer l'utilisation des en-t?tes d'extension IPv6
>             - Identifier les ?quivalents IPv6 pour chaque fonctionnalit? IPv4 que vous utilisez dans votre r?seau.
> 
>     Ce cours est maintenant ouvert ? l'inscription sur:  https://academy.afrinic.net/courses/fondamentaux-sur-IPv6 <https://academy.afrinic.net/courses/fondamentaux-sur-IPv6>
> 
> On behalf of AFRINIC Capacity Building Team
> 
> ???????????????????
> 
> Launch of the IPv6 Foundations Course in French
> 
> Dear colleagues,
> 
> AFRINIC is pleased to announce the launch of the e-learning course "IPv6 Foundations (French Version)". Through this course, you will build a solid foundation in IPv6 networking principles, and by the end of the course you should be able to:
> 
>             - Explain why the deployment of IPv6 is essential for the growth of the Internet
>             - Identify the different types of IPv6 addresses and their use cases
>             - Describe how EUI-64, semantically opaque and pseudo-random interface identifiers are generated 
>             - List the differences between IPv6 and IPv4 at the packet level
>             - Explain the use of IPv6 extension headers
>             - Identify the IPv6 equivalents for each IPv4 feature you use in your network.
>   
>   This course is now open for registration at https://academy.afrinic.net/courses/fondamentaux-sur-IPv6.
> 
> An nom du Capacity Building Team d'AFRINIC
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

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From noah at neo.co.tz  Thu Feb  4 17:24:44 2021
From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 20:24:44 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Notice to all the legacy netblocks holders
	in AfriNIC
In-Reply-To: <6DFCD6C0-6AAB-4FDB-AE33-4177BE618F33@delong.com>
References: <05751329-1002-4A8C-9CB0-318882CB984E@me.com>
 <49298.1604105023@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
 <CAEqgTWYqYddNikKzswv+RA18bBfe3or=aW0wv8Q_Z_yYPFbtrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <6DFCD6C0-6AAB-4FDB-AE33-4177BE618F33@delong.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqgTWaDJmMH9O9FW83_Tk2=wviN2Sht9sv2VReyyG=ox1Rd+w@mail.gmail.com>

Owen,

On Mon, 11 Jan 2021, 20:48 Owen DeLong, <owen at delong.com> wrote:

>
> If you believe that Larus has committed number resource fraud, then
> present your evidence to AfriNIC and let them investigate.
>

The evidences continue to be shown and discussed on this list and others
since 2014.

I assume AFRINIC and all other interested parties are listening and can see
data from previous and recent public discussions and determine what they
have to do.

The Internet community shall continue to play its part by ringing the bell,
providing data and discussing what is happening.

We are all custodians of these public resources.

Noah
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From noah at neo.co.tz  Thu Feb  4 19:05:53 2021
From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 22:05:53 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Publication of the report on AFRINIC WHOIS
 Database Accuracy
In-Reply-To: <BFD7AC21-8C6B-496B-809E-0312689A93CD@afrinic.net>
References: <BFD7AC21-8C6B-496B-809E-0312689A93CD@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <CAEqgTWb5_WtDt62VW7mmwZQVxGqduWKRnd_Kh6tv3MkOj6kMkw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Eddy

Thanks so much for your email and the report. Good work to that end and
lets hope for more.

Let the community parse through and feedback to the best of our ability.

Cheers,
*./noah*


On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 1:24 PM Eddy Kayihura <eddy at afrinic.net> wrote:

>
>
> [French, Arabic and Portuguese versions below]
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
> As promised, I am pleased to announce the publication of the report on
> AFRINIC WHOIS Database Accuracy which was originally planned to be released
> in December 2020.
>
> https://afrinic.net/20210121-afrinic-whois-database-accuracy-report
>
> The report is the outcome of a thorough audit exercise undertaken by our
> team for all the IPv4 resources that falls under AFRINIC?s Service region
> including both legacy and non-legacy space.
>
> I would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone who has worked
> tirelessly towards the delivery of this report, our team at AFRINIC, the
> APNIC staff who have been assisting and supporting us all along and our
> community members who have shared valuable information, feedback and
> constructive insights to the misappropriation of IPv4 resources case.
>
> I hope you will find the information in the report useful and we look
> forward to receiving your comments and feedback.
>
> Regards,
>
> Eddy Kayihura
>
> ???????????
>
> Chers coll?gues,
>
> Comme promis, j'ai le plaisir d'annoncer la publication du rapport sur
> l'exactitude de la base de donn?es WHOIS d'AFRINIC, qui devait initialement
> ?tre publi? en d?cembre 2020.
>
> https://afrinic.net/20210121-afrinic-whois-database-accuracy-report
>
> Le rapport est le r?sultat d'un exercice d'audit approfondi entrepris par
> notre ?quipe pour toutes les ressources IPv4 qui rel?vent de la r?gion de
> service de l'AFRINIC, y compris les espaces 'legacy' et non legacy.
>
> J'aimerais profiter de cette occasion pour remercier tous ceux qui ont
> travaill? sans rel?che ? la publication de ce rapport, notre ?quipe ?
> l'AFRINIC, le personnel de l'APNIC qui nous a aid?s et soutenus tout au
> long de l'exercice et les membres de notre communaut? qui ont partag? des
> informations pr?cieuses, des commentaires et des id?es constructives sur le
> cas du d?tournement des ressources IPv4.
>
> J'esp?re que les informations contenues dans le rapport vous seront utiles
> et nous nous r?jouissons de recevoir vos commentaires et r?actions.
>
> Cordialement,
>
> Eddy Kayihura
>
> ??????????????????????..
>
> ?????? ????????
>
> ??? ???? ? ?????? ?? ???? ?? ??? ????? ??? ????? ?????? AFRINIC WHOIS ????
> ??? ?? ?????? ?????? ?? ?????? 2020.
>
> https://afrinic.net/20210121-afrinic-whois-database-accuracy-report
>
>
> ??????? ?? ????? ????? ????? ???? ??? ?? ?????? ????? ????? IPv4 ???? ???
> ??? ????? ???? AFRINIC ??? ?? ??? ??????? ??????? ???? ???????.
>
> ??? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ????? ?? ?? ??? ??? ??? ?? ??? ????? ??? ??????? ?
> ??????? ?? AFRINIC ? ?????? APNIC ????? ????? ????????? ????????? ????
> ????? ?????? ??????? ????? ?????? ????????? ?????? ?????????? ? ??? ?????
> ??? ?????? ??? ??????? ????? ????? IPv4.
>
> ??? ?? ??? ????????? ??????? ?? ??????? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ?????????
> ??????????.
>
> ?? ???????
>
> Eddy Kayihura
>
> ??????????????????.
>
> Caros colegas,
>
> Como prometido, tenho o prazer de anunciar a publica??o do relat?rio sobre
> AFRINIC WHOIS Database Accuracy, que estava inicialmente previsto para ser
> lan?ado em Dezembro de 2020.
>
> https://afrinic.net/20210121-afrinic-whois-database-accuracy-report
>
> O relat?rio ? o resultado de um exaustivo exerc?cio de auditoria
> empreendido pela nossa equipa para todos os recursos IPv4 que se enquadram
> na regi?o de Servi?o da AFRINIC, incluindo tanto o espa?o legado como o
> espa?o n?o legado.
>
> Gostaria de aproveitar esta oportunidade para agradecer a todos os que
> trabalharam incansavelmente para a entrega deste relat?rio, ? nossa equipa
> na AFRINIC, ao pessoal da APNIC que nos tem ajudado e apoiado desde o
> in?cio e aos nossos membros da comunidade que partilharam informa??es
> valiosas, feedback e percep??es construtivas sobre o caso da apropria??o
> indevida de recursos IPv4.
>
> Espero que considerem as informa??es contidas no relat?rio ?teis e
> aguardamos com expectativa os vossos coment?rios e feedback.
>
> Cumprimentos,
>
> Eddy Kayihura
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
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From owen at delong.com  Fri Feb  5 00:24:58 2021
From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 16:24:58 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Notice to all the legacy netblocks holders
 in AfriNIC
In-Reply-To: <CAEqgTWaDJmMH9O9FW83_Tk2=wviN2Sht9sv2VReyyG=ox1Rd+w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <05751329-1002-4A8C-9CB0-318882CB984E@me.com>
 <49298.1604105023@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
 <CAEqgTWYqYddNikKzswv+RA18bBfe3or=aW0wv8Q_Z_yYPFbtrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <6DFCD6C0-6AAB-4FDB-AE33-4177BE618F33@delong.com>
 <CAEqgTWaDJmMH9O9FW83_Tk2=wviN2Sht9sv2VReyyG=ox1Rd+w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0C52ED9F-87BD-42CB-8DE1-40086A85D9C8@delong.com>



> On Feb 4, 2021, at 9:24 AM, Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:
> 
> Owen,
> 
> On Mon, 11 Jan 2021, 20:48 Owen DeLong, <owen at delong.com <mailto:owen at delong.com>> wrote:
> 
> If you believe that Larus has committed number resource fraud, then present your evidence to AfriNIC and let them investigate.
> 
> The evidences continue to be shown and discussed on this list and others since 2014. 

You keep saying that, but I?ve seen lots and lots of allegations with no actual evidence that they committed resource fraud.

> I assume AFRINIC and all other interested parties are listening and can see data from previous and recent public discussions and determine what they have to do.

If you can provide specific pointers to actual evidence, I?m happy to review them, but a blanket reference to 6+ years of multiple mailing lists isn?t proof, it?s a wild goose chase and I have no intention of engaging in such a futile exercise.

> The Internet community shall continue to play its part by ringing the bell, providing data and discussing what is happening.

Data is good. Allegations are not. If you have data, then by all means, let?s see it. So far, you sound like Trump? Lots of allegations and precious few facts to back them up.

> We are all custodians of these public resources.

Yes and as such, we owe them a duty to factual reporting of abuse and fraud and should refrain from baseless accusations.

Owen

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From owen at delong.com  Fri Feb  5 00:56:39 2021
From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 16:56:39 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Notice to all the legacy netblocks holders
 in AfriNIC
In-Reply-To: <CAEqgTWYRGohNy4byFNf+m-7ntNU-U60deOZPnWDCfvY8QS00jQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <05751329-1002-4A8C-9CB0-318882CB984E@me.com>
 <49298.1604105023@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
 <CAEqgTWYqYddNikKzswv+RA18bBfe3or=aW0wv8Q_Z_yYPFbtrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <6DFCD6C0-6AAB-4FDB-AE33-4177BE618F33@delong.com>
 <CAEqgTWYRGohNy4byFNf+m-7ntNU-U60deOZPnWDCfvY8QS00jQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5D4D01C6-6733-4F27-8E47-5C9789859AA8@delong.com>



> On Feb 2, 2021, at 4:29 AM, Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:
> 
> Owen,
> 
> On Mon, Jan 11, 2021 at 8:48 PM Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com <mailto:owen at delong.com>> wrote:
>> What is more baffling is that its a lot of space and guess what, the members doesn't seem to have a known ASN.
> 
> Please point me to the section of the CPM which requires a member holding IPv4 number resources to have an ASN.
> 
> The CPM does not impose that a member holding IPv4 should have an ASN since there are valid scenarios for not having an ASN.

Then I am confused by your above quoted statement that it is ?baffling...that the members[sic] doesn?t seem to have a known ASN?.

If you recognize that there are valid scenarios for having space and no ASN, how is this baffling?

> FWIW, an LIR in Afrinic documentation means: ?Any Network Operator that provides Internet services to distinct end-users and end-sites.? In the same context, LIRs are allocated  IPv4 space of type Provider Aggregatable ?Allocated PA?.

Yes. It does not specify the type of internet services. Are you arguing that the leasing of address blocks is not an internet service? I think there are many lessees on the internet that would differ with you about that. There are many types of internet services that are not necessarily ?internet connectivity services?. Surely if the intent were to specify only internet connectivity services, then the documentation would say specifically that, no?

> While an LIR may not have the need to run BGP and express unique routing policy distinct from the ones of its providers, there is a requirement to operate a network and offer internet services which use the IP addresses assigned to the end-users. Such a scenario is easily traceable and provable.

There is? Please show me where this requirement is codified. Please show me where the requirement to operate a network is tied to the offering of internet services.

> This is not the case here, where an LIR does not run a network to serve the users to whom IP addresses are assigned to. We?ve seen LoA's and hijacking and misappropriation of the ASNs by those trying to use these "assignments". The evidence is publicly available.

No, sir, you have not. You have seen LOAs for a valid leasing of address space. You have seen erroneous origination from an ASN by one customer on one occasion. Hijacking is a deliberate act, not an erroneous misconfiguration.

> Maybe the conversation to have is about the type of network and services this LIR is operating and offering, to determine if they need an ASN or not.

The failure here is yours. Your failure to recognize that there are internet services which are possible outside of the offering of internet connection services and that such services are not prohibited by current policy. If you wish to mandate that IP addresses may only be used in providing internet connectivity services, then feel free to submit a proposal to do so, but as the current CPM reads, no such requirement exists and it is inappropriate for you to hold others accountable to the assumptions you read into the policy which are not, in fact, contained in the wording of the policy.

Owen

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From geier at geier.ne.tz  Fri Feb  5 05:07:27 2021
From: geier at geier.ne.tz (Frank Habicht)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 08:07:27 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Notice to all the legacy netblocks holders
 in AfriNIC
In-Reply-To: <5D4D01C6-6733-4F27-8E47-5C9789859AA8@delong.com>
References: <05751329-1002-4A8C-9CB0-318882CB984E@me.com>
 <49298.1604105023@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
 <CAEqgTWYqYddNikKzswv+RA18bBfe3or=aW0wv8Q_Z_yYPFbtrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <6DFCD6C0-6AAB-4FDB-AE33-4177BE618F33@delong.com>
 <CAEqgTWYRGohNy4byFNf+m-7ntNU-U60deOZPnWDCfvY8QS00jQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5D4D01C6-6733-4F27-8E47-5C9789859AA8@delong.com>
Message-ID: <14b418b7-7a90-a0f4-a60e-63b35a5df2e0@geier.ne.tz>

Hi Owen,

On 05/02/2021 03:56, Owen DeLong wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Feb 2, 2021, at 4:29 AM, Noah <noah at neo.co.tz
>> <mailto:noah at neo.co.tz>> wrote:

>> FWIW, an LIR in Afrinic documentation means: ?*Any Network Operator
>> that provides Internet services to distinct end-users and end-sites.*?
>> In the same context, LIRs are allocated? IPv4 space?of type?Provider
>> Aggregatable ?Allocated PA?.
> 
> Yes. It does not specify the type of internet services. Are you arguing
> that the leasing of address blocks is not an internet service?

My initial 'gut' response was "YES" - leasing is not a service as
intended. But: I didn't check the scripture, IANAL, and I don't want to
get into *that* discussion.

But I have just one question:

Is *leasing* the kind of use, for which the IP space was applied for and
justified?


AfriNIC staff: has any LIR applied for IP space for the purpose of
*leasing* and received IP address space?

Thanks,
Frank



From comms at afrinic.net  Fri Feb  5 05:49:20 2021
From: comms at afrinic.net (AFRINIC Communication)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 09:49:20 +0400
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Call for Public Comments on the 2020 IANA
 Performance Matrix Summary Report
Message-ID: <D13E6288-9F0E-4B9B-A584-D0B509189A58@afrinic.net>

[Sent on behalf of the IANA Numbering Services Review Committee]
 
Dear colleagues,
 
As you may be aware, as a result of the successful IANA Stewardship transition in 2016 <https://www.nro.net/stewardship-transition-archive/ <https://www.nro.net/stewardship-transition-archive/>> , the IANA Numbering Services are today being managed through an SLA <https://www.nro.net/sla <https://www.nro.net/sla>> between ICANN and the five Regional Internet Registries (RIRs).
 
As part of the result of the IANA Stewardship transition, the IANA Numbering Services Review Committee (IANA RC) <https://www.nro.net/iana-rc <https://www.nro.net/iana-rc>> was established in 2016. The IANA RC is composed of representatives from each RIR region, and advises and assists the RIRs in the review of the IANA Numbering Services.
 
The IANA services are today provided by Public Technical Identifiers (PTI), which publishes monthly performance reports on the IANA Numbering Services. <https://www.iana.org/performance/numbers <https://www.iana.org/performance/numbers>>
 
Based on these monthly performance reports, the five RIRs have produced the 2020 IANA Performance Matrix Summary Report. <https://www.nro.net/2020-RIR-IANA-summary-report <https://www.nro.net/2020-RIR-IANA-summary-report>>
 
30 Day Public Comment Period
 
The IANA RC is now launching a public comment period of 30 days, seeking comments and input from the community on the IANA numbering services performance and the 2020 IANA Performance Matrix Summary Report.<https://www.nro.net/2020-RIR-IANA-summary-report <https://www.nro.net/2020-RIR-IANA-summary-report>>
 
The IANA RC encourages all members of the Internet number community to review the public IANA Performance Matrix Summary Report.
 
Comments on the IANA service performance should be sent to: iana-performance [at] nro [dot] net.
 
The IANA RC will publish an annual report in March 2021, as advice to the NRO EC with its evaluation of the IANA Numbering services. The report will be based on the IANA Performance Matrix Summary Report, as well as any input gathered on the performance from the global number community.
 
The public comment period ends on Friday, 5 March 2021 at 23:59 UTC.
 
All public comments will be published on the NRO Website in the dedicated IANA RC section <https://www.nro.net/iana-rc-reports <https://www.nro.net/iana-rc-reports>>, and will be considered as input to the final report by IANA. At the end of the 30-day public comment period, the IANA RC will meet and evaluate all input to the final report.
 
The final IANA RC 2020 Report will be published at <https://www.nro.net/iana-rc-reports <https://www.nro.net/iana-rc-reports>>
 
Kind regards,
 
Bertrand Cherrier
Chair, IANA Numbering Services Review Committee
 
Further Information
 
IANA Numbering Services Review Committee <https://www.nro.net/iana-rc <https://www.nro.net/iana-rc>>
Public Technical Identifiers (PTI) <https://pti.icann.org/ <https://pti.icann.org/>>
IANA Stewardship Transition Archive <https://www.nro.net/internet-governance/iana/iana-stewardship-transition/ <https://www.nro.net/internet-governance/iana/iana-stewardship-transition/>>
The SLA for the IANA Numbering Services <https://www.nro.net/sla <https://www.nro.net/sla>>
IANA Stewardship Transition Number Community Proposal <https://www.nro.net/crisp-final-proposal <https://www.nro.net/crisp-final-proposal>>
IANA RC Report 2019 <https://www.nro.net/iana-rc-report-2019 <https://www.nro.net/iana-rc-report-2019>>
IANA RC Report 2018 <https://www.nro.net/iana-rc-report-2018 <https://www.nro.net/iana-rc-report-2018>>
IANA RC Report 2017 <https://www.nro.net/iana-rc-report-2017 <https://www.nro.net/iana-rc-report-2017>>

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From rachadsanoussi at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 07:45:15 2021
From: rachadsanoussi at gmail.com (Sanoussi Rachad)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 07:45:15 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss]
	=?utf-8?q?Lancement_du_cours_=22IPv6_Foundati?=
	=?utf-8?q?ons=22_en_Fran=C3=A7ais?=
In-Reply-To: <44D77DFE-CC7A-4AF2-AB14-1D7D7F4F0A4D@afrinic.net>
References: <44D77DFE-CC7A-4AF2-AB14-1D7D7F4F0A4D@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <CAF+-Fighb2UNkJacK+EeLbSncS8tP17F3M2o46LR4ajRQLH16w@mail.gmail.com>

Merci AFRINIC pour cette opportunit? que vous nous offrez. Y a t'il un
deadline ? Quand commenceront nous le cours ?

On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 7:40 AM AFRINIC Communication <comms at afrinic.net>
wrote:

> [English version below]
>
> Chers coll?gues,
>
> AFRINIC a le plaisir d'annoncer le lancement du cours en ligne "IPv6
> Foundations". Gr?ce ? ce cours, vous allez acqu?rir une base solide des
> principes de la mise en r?seau IPv6, et ? la fin du cours, vous devriez
> ?tre en mesure de:
>
>             - Expliquer les raisons pour lesquelles le d?ploiement d'IPv6
> est essentiel ? la croissance de l'Internet
>             - Identifier les diff?rents types d'adresses IPv6 et leurs cas
> d'utilisation
>             - D?crire comment sont g?n?r?s les identificateurs d'interface
> EUI-64, s?mantiquement opaques et pseudo-al?atoires
>             - ?num?rer les diff?rences entre IPv6 et IPv4 au niveau des
> paquets
>             - Expliquer l'utilisation des en-t?tes d'extension IPv6
>             - Identifier les ?quivalents IPv6 pour chaque fonctionnalit?
> IPv4 que vous utilisez dans votre r?seau.
>
>     Ce cours est maintenant ouvert ? l'inscription sur:
> https://academy.afrinic.net/courses/fondamentaux-sur-IPv6
>
> On behalf of AFRINIC Capacity Building Team
>
> ???????????????????
>
> Launch of the IPv6 Foundations Course in French
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
> AFRINIC is pleased to announce the launch of the e-learning course "IPv6
> Foundations (French Version)". Through this course, you will build a solid
> foundation in IPv6 networking principles, and by the end of the course you
> should be able to:
>
>             - Explain why the deployment of IPv6 is essential for the
> growth of the Internet
>             - Identify the different types of IPv6 addresses and their use
> cases
>             - Describe how EUI-64, semantically opaque and pseudo-random
> interface identifiers are generated
>             - List the differences between IPv6 and IPv4 at the packet
> level
>             - Explain the use of IPv6 extension headers
>             - Identify the IPv6 equivalents for each IPv4 feature you use
> in your network.
>
>   This course is now open for registration at
> https://academy.afrinic.net/courses/fondamentaux-sur-IPv6.
>
> An nom du Capacity Building Team d'AFRINIC
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
Rachad
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From comms at afrinic.net  Fri Feb  5 11:05:52 2021
From: comms at afrinic.net (AFRINIC Communication)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 15:05:52 +0400
Subject: [Community-Discuss]
 =?utf-8?q?Lancement_du_cours_=22IPv6_Foundati?=
 =?utf-8?q?ons=22_en_Fran=C3=A7ais?=
In-Reply-To: <CAF+-Fighb2UNkJacK+EeLbSncS8tP17F3M2o46LR4ajRQLH16w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <44D77DFE-CC7A-4AF2-AB14-1D7D7F4F0A4D@afrinic.net>
 <CAF+-Fighb2UNkJacK+EeLbSncS8tP17F3M2o46LR4ajRQLH16w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <157C034C-0D0E-4D3C-82E1-BD4E136A139F@afrinic.net>

Bonjour Rachad,

Il n'y a pas de date limite pour commencer le cours. Il s'agit d'un cours autodidacte, vous pouvez y acc?der ? tout moment.

Cordialement,

Ashil


> On 5 Feb 2021, at 11:45, Sanoussi Rachad <rachadsanoussi at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Merci AFRINIC pour cette opportunit? que vous nous offrez. Y a t'il un deadline ? Quand commenceront nous le cours ? 
> 
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 7:40 AM AFRINIC Communication <comms at afrinic.net <mailto:comms at afrinic.net>> wrote:
> [English version below]
> 
> Chers coll?gues,
> 
> AFRINIC a le plaisir d'annoncer le lancement du cours en ligne "IPv6 Foundations". Gr?ce ? ce cours, vous allez acqu?rir une base solide des principes de la mise en r?seau IPv6, et ? la fin du cours, vous devriez ?tre en mesure de:
> 
>             - Expliquer les raisons pour lesquelles le d?ploiement d'IPv6 est essentiel ? la croissance de l'Internet
>             - Identifier les diff?rents types d'adresses IPv6 et leurs cas d'utilisation
>             - D?crire comment sont g?n?r?s les identificateurs d'interface EUI-64, s?mantiquement opaques et pseudo-al?atoires
>             - ?num?rer les diff?rences entre IPv6 et IPv4 au niveau des paquets
>             - Expliquer l'utilisation des en-t?tes d'extension IPv6
>             - Identifier les ?quivalents IPv6 pour chaque fonctionnalit? IPv4 que vous utilisez dans votre r?seau.
> 
>     Ce cours est maintenant ouvert ? l'inscription sur:  https://academy.afrinic.net/courses/fondamentaux-sur-IPv6 <https://academy.afrinic.net/courses/fondamentaux-sur-IPv6>
> 
> On behalf of AFRINIC Capacity Building Team
> 
> ???????????????????
> 
> Launch of the IPv6 Foundations Course in French
> 
> Dear colleagues,
> 
> AFRINIC is pleased to announce the launch of the e-learning course "IPv6 Foundations (French Version)". Through this course, you will build a solid foundation in IPv6 networking principles, and by the end of the course you should be able to:
> 
>             - Explain why the deployment of IPv6 is essential for the growth of the Internet
>             - Identify the different types of IPv6 addresses and their use cases
>             - Describe how EUI-64, semantically opaque and pseudo-random interface identifiers are generated 
>             - List the differences between IPv6 and IPv4 at the packet level
>             - Explain the use of IPv6 extension headers
>             - Identify the IPv6 equivalents for each IPv4 feature you use in your network.
> 
>   This course is now open for registration at https://academy.afrinic.net/courses/fondamentaux-sur-IPv6 <https://academy.afrinic.net/courses/fondamentaux-sur-IPv6>.
> 
> An nom du Capacity Building Team d'AFRINIC
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> Rachad

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From rachadsanoussi at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 11:11:31 2021
From: rachadsanoussi at gmail.com (Sanoussi Rachad)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 11:11:31 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss]
	=?utf-8?q?Lancement_du_cours_=22IPv6_Foundati?=
	=?utf-8?q?ons=22_en_Fran=C3=A7ais?=
In-Reply-To: <157C034C-0D0E-4D3C-82E1-BD4E136A139F@afrinic.net>
References: <44D77DFE-CC7A-4AF2-AB14-1D7D7F4F0A4D@afrinic.net>
 <CAF+-Fighb2UNkJacK+EeLbSncS8tP17F3M2o46LR4ajRQLH16w@mail.gmail.com>
 <157C034C-0D0E-4D3C-82E1-BD4E136A139F@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <CAF+-FiiuGYyv4PthMZ-bxM6sAUnU9ftkSW+C3bz9qYWFBvE1_A@mail.gmail.com>

Merci pour votre r?ponse.

Rachad

On Fri, Feb 5, 2021, 11:06 AM AFRINIC Communication <comms at afrinic.net>
wrote:

> Bonjour Rachad,
>
> Il n'y a pas de date limite pour commencer le cours. Il s'agit d'un cours
> autodidacte, vous pouvez y acc?der ? tout moment.
>
> Cordialement,
>
> Ashil
>
>
> On 5 Feb 2021, at 11:45, Sanoussi Rachad <rachadsanoussi at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Merci AFRINIC pour cette opportunit? que vous nous offrez. Y a t'il un
> deadline ? Quand commenceront nous le cours ?
>
> On Thu, Feb 4, 2021, 7:40 AM AFRINIC Communication <comms at afrinic.net>
> wrote:
>
>> [English version below]
>>
>> Chers coll?gues,
>>
>> AFRINIC a le plaisir d'annoncer le lancement du cours en ligne "IPv6
>> Foundations". Gr?ce ? ce cours, vous allez acqu?rir une base solide des
>> principes de la mise en r?seau IPv6, et ? la fin du cours, vous devriez
>> ?tre en mesure de:
>>
>>             - Expliquer les raisons pour lesquelles le d?ploiement d'IPv6
>> est essentiel ? la croissance de l'Internet
>>             - Identifier les diff?rents types d'adresses IPv6 et leurs
>> cas d'utilisation
>>             - D?crire comment sont g?n?r?s les identificateurs
>> d'interface EUI-64, s?mantiquement opaques et pseudo-al?atoires
>>             - ?num?rer les diff?rences entre IPv6 et IPv4 au niveau des
>> paquets
>>             - Expliquer l'utilisation des en-t?tes d'extension IPv6
>>             - Identifier les ?quivalents IPv6 pour chaque fonctionnalit?
>> IPv4 que vous utilisez dans votre r?seau.
>>
>>     Ce cours est maintenant ouvert ? l'inscription sur:
>> https://academy.afrinic.net/courses/fondamentaux-sur-IPv6
>>
>> On behalf of AFRINIC Capacity Building Team
>>
>> ???????????????????
>>
>> Launch of the IPv6 Foundations Course in French
>>
>> Dear colleagues,
>>
>> AFRINIC is pleased to announce the launch of the e-learning course "IPv6
>> Foundations (French Version)". Through this course, you will build a solid
>> foundation in IPv6 networking principles, and by the end of the course you
>> should be able to:
>>
>>             - Explain why the deployment of IPv6 is essential for the
>> growth of the Internet
>>             - Identify the different types of IPv6 addresses and their
>> use cases
>>             - Describe how EUI-64, semantically opaque and pseudo-random
>> interface identifiers are generated
>>             - List the differences between IPv6 and IPv4 at the packet
>> level
>>             - Explain the use of IPv6 extension headers
>>             - Identify the IPv6 equivalents for each IPv4 feature you use
>> in your network.
>>
>>   This course is now open for registration at
>> https://academy.afrinic.net/courses/fondamentaux-sur-IPv6.
>>
>> An nom du Capacity Building Team d'AFRINIC
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
> Rachad
>
>
>
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From comms at afrinic.net  Fri Feb  5 11:53:24 2021
From: comms at afrinic.net (AFRINIC Communication)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 15:53:24 +0400
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Notice to all the legacy netblocks holders
 in AfriNIC
In-Reply-To: <14b418b7-7a90-a0f4-a60e-63b35a5df2e0@geier.ne.tz>
References: <05751329-1002-4A8C-9CB0-318882CB984E@me.com>
 <49298.1604105023@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
 <CAEqgTWYqYddNikKzswv+RA18bBfe3or=aW0wv8Q_Z_yYPFbtrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <6DFCD6C0-6AAB-4FDB-AE33-4177BE618F33@delong.com>
 <CAEqgTWYRGohNy4byFNf+m-7ntNU-U60deOZPnWDCfvY8QS00jQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5D4D01C6-6733-4F27-8E47-5C9789859AA8@delong.com>
 <14b418b7-7a90-a0f4-a60e-63b35a5df2e0@geier.ne.tz>
Message-ID: <FD31E7E3-E395-470B-AC87-EC7E8E3FCB0D@afrinic.net>

Dear Frank,

AFRINIC  has not approved any application for IP space for the purpose of leasing despite having received such requests.

Regards,

Ashil

> On 5 Feb 2021, at 09:07, Frank Habicht <geier at geier.ne.tz> wrote:
> 
> Hi Owen,
> 
> On 05/02/2021 03:56, Owen DeLong wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 2, 2021, at 4:29 AM, Noah <noah at neo.co.tz
>>> <mailto:noah at neo.co.tz>> wrote:
> 
>>> FWIW, an LIR in Afrinic documentation means: ?*Any Network Operator
>>> that provides Internet services to distinct end-users and end-sites.*?
>>> In the same context, LIRs are allocated  IPv4 space of type Provider
>>> Aggregatable ?Allocated PA?.
>> 
>> Yes. It does not specify the type of internet services. Are you arguing
>> that the leasing of address blocks is not an internet service?
> 
> My initial 'gut' response was "YES" - leasing is not a service as
> intended. But: I didn't check the scripture, IANAL, and I don't want to
> get into *that* discussion.
> 
> But I have just one question:
> 
> Is *leasing* the kind of use, for which the IP space was applied for and
> justified?
> 
> 
> AfriNIC staff: has any LIR applied for IP space for the purpose of
> *leasing* and received IP address space?
> 
> Thanks,
> Frank
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss




From geier at geier.ne.tz  Fri Feb  5 11:56:39 2021
From: geier at geier.ne.tz (Frank Habicht)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 14:56:39 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Notice to all the legacy netblocks holders
 in AfriNIC
In-Reply-To: <FD31E7E3-E395-470B-AC87-EC7E8E3FCB0D@afrinic.net>
References: <05751329-1002-4A8C-9CB0-318882CB984E@me.com>
 <49298.1604105023@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
 <CAEqgTWYqYddNikKzswv+RA18bBfe3or=aW0wv8Q_Z_yYPFbtrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <6DFCD6C0-6AAB-4FDB-AE33-4177BE618F33@delong.com>
 <CAEqgTWYRGohNy4byFNf+m-7ntNU-U60deOZPnWDCfvY8QS00jQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5D4D01C6-6733-4F27-8E47-5C9789859AA8@delong.com>
 <14b418b7-7a90-a0f4-a60e-63b35a5df2e0@geier.ne.tz>
 <FD31E7E3-E395-470B-AC87-EC7E8E3FCB0D@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <ea8289c4-9870-d748-4201-45757bce289e@geier.ne.tz>

Owen....???

On 05/02/2021 14:53, AFRINIC Communication wrote:
> Dear Frank,
> 
> AFRINIC  has not approved any application for IP space for the
> purpose of leasing despite having received such requests.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Ashil
> 
>> On 05/02/2021 03:56, Owen DeLong wrote:
>>> Yes. It does not specify the type of internet services. Are you
>>> arguing that the leasing of address blocks is not an internet
>>> service?


Thanks Ashil!



From amelnaud at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 10:26:46 2021
From: amelnaud at gmail.com (Arnaud AMELINA)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 10:26:46 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Notice to all the legacy netblocks holders
	in AfriNIC
In-Reply-To: <14b418b7-7a90-a0f4-a60e-63b35a5df2e0@geier.ne.tz>
References: <05751329-1002-4A8C-9CB0-318882CB984E@me.com>
 <49298.1604105023@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
 <CAEqgTWYqYddNikKzswv+RA18bBfe3or=aW0wv8Q_Z_yYPFbtrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <6DFCD6C0-6AAB-4FDB-AE33-4177BE618F33@delong.com>
 <CAEqgTWYRGohNy4byFNf+m-7ntNU-U60deOZPnWDCfvY8QS00jQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5D4D01C6-6733-4F27-8E47-5C9789859AA8@delong.com>
 <14b418b7-7a90-a0f4-a60e-63b35a5df2e0@geier.ne.tz>
Message-ID: <CAGDMR_dvNpdmucEEyMQOb1m5Mkq58LAS+MF44LHTGREA_Zrz+A@mail.gmail.com>

>
> AfriNIC staff: has any LIR applied for IP space for the purpose of
> *leasing* and received IP address space?
>
> Thanks,
> Frank
>
> ______________________
>

Question tr?s importante, et esp?rons une r?ponse ad?quat de la part du
STAFF d'AFRINIC.

Cordialement

Very important question, hope an adequate response from AFRINIC STAFF.

Regards

--
Arnaud


>
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From owen at delong.com  Fri Feb  5 13:43:37 2021
From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 05:43:37 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Notice to all the legacy netblocks holders
	in AfriNIC
In-Reply-To: <CAGDMR_dvNpdmucEEyMQOb1m5Mkq58LAS+MF44LHTGREA_Zrz+A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGDMR_dvNpdmucEEyMQOb1m5Mkq58LAS+MF44LHTGREA_Zrz+A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <58415843-9BDC-4B63-A452-1500991D48F0@delong.com>

Originally, the space was used for some rather specialized connectivity services. Due to changes in the market and the legal environment, those services became less lucrative and the organization pivoted. 

Hardly any organization that has been in this business for more than 10 years is using every address they have for the exact purpose for which it was approved. 

None the less, delegating addresses to customers for their legitimate use as unique internet addresses remains the primary purpose of any IR whether it be regional, national, or local. 

There exists no requirement in policy that such delegations involve connectivity services. In fact, no RIR provides connectivity services to any of the organizations it issues addresses to. 

Certainly, if such a requirement were intended, it could have been written into the policy. 

Owen


> On Feb 5, 2021, at 04:39, Arnaud AMELINA <amelnaud at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?
> 
>> 
>> AfriNIC staff: has any LIR applied for IP space for the purpose of
>> *leasing* and received IP address space?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Frank
>> 
>> ______________________
> 
> 
> Question tr?s importante, et esp?rons une r?ponse ad?quat de la part du STAFF d'AFRINIC. 
> 
> Cordialement 
> 
> Very important question, hope an adequate response from AFRINIC STAFF. 
> 
> Regards 
> 
> --
> Arnaud 
> 
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
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From geier at geier.ne.tz  Fri Feb  5 14:01:04 2021
From: geier at geier.ne.tz (Frank Habicht)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 17:01:04 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Notice to all the legacy netblocks holders
 in AfriNIC
In-Reply-To: <58415843-9BDC-4B63-A452-1500991D48F0@delong.com>
References: <CAGDMR_dvNpdmucEEyMQOb1m5Mkq58LAS+MF44LHTGREA_Zrz+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <58415843-9BDC-4B63-A452-1500991D48F0@delong.com>
Message-ID: <face658d-bef4-dc54-c528-01558199a2b9@geier.ne.tz>

Hi,

On 05/02/2021 16:43, Owen DeLong wrote:
> Originally, the space was used for some rather specialized connectivity
> services. Due to changes in the market and the legal environment, those
> services became less lucrative and the organization pivoted.?
> 
> Hardly any organization that has been in this business for more than 10
> years is using every address they have for the exact purpose for which
> it was approved. 

True.
And i just stumbled upon many sections in
https://afrinic.net/membership/agreements?lang=en#rsa
where this is not permitted [1]
So I view this as you advocating a "flexible" interpretation...
                                    ^^^^^^^^
> None the less, delegating addresses to customers for their legitimate
> use as unique internet addresses remains the primary purpose of any IR
> whether it be regional, national, or local.?

here comes the danger of mixing LIR and non-LIR ...

> There exists no requirement in policy that such delegations involve
> connectivity services.

For LIR: [1]

> In fact, no RIR provides connectivity services to
> any of the organizations it issues addresses to.?

I think noone was talking about RIRs [2]

> Certainly, if such a requirement were intended, it could have been
> written into the policy. 

... and here I see a more strict interpretation....
                          ^^^^^^

Frank

[1]
The Applicant hereby irrevocably:
(i) Commits itself to using the services solely for the purpose for
    which it was requested.

[2]
https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-February/003901.html

> FWIW, an LIR in Afrinic documentation means: ?Any Network Operator
> that provides Internet services to distinct end-users and end-sites.?
> In the same context, LIRs are allocated IPv4 space of type Provider
> Aggregatable ?Allocated PA?.
Yes.
(that's your paragraph I responded to)



From abscoco at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 21:14:58 2021
From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain BAYA)
Date: Fri, 05 Feb 2021 22:14:58 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Notice to all the legacy netblocks holders in
	AfriNIC
In-Reply-To: <58415843-9BDC-4B63-A452-1500991D48F0@delong.com>
References: <CAGDMR_dvNpdmucEEyMQOb1m5Mkq58LAS+MF44LHTGREA_Zrz+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <58415843-9BDC-4B63-A452-1500991D48F0@delong.com>
Message-ID: <9720E125-736B-4B95-9BED-29522BC28E55@pretty.Easy.privacy>

Dear Community, 
Hope you are doing well! 

Le ven. 5 f?vr. 2021 14:44, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> a ?crit :
>

Dear Owen,
Thanks for your email, brother. 

>
> Originally, the space was used for some rather specialized connectivity 
> services. 
> 

:-) ...any evidence ? 

Good new ! we know, now, that no one 
can get Internet number resources 
(INRs) at AfriNIC in justifying its needs 
as to engage in leasing such precious 
resources...

...what we still not know is *if* their new 
justification of utilization of INRs was 
explaining that they were going to start 
a leasing activity with *our* INRs.

> 
> Due to changes in the market and the legal environment, those 
> services became less lucrative and the organization pivoted. 
>

...i suppose, as required by the RSA [1], 
they have already shared their new 
network design, with AfriNIC at that 
time, to explain the new kind of usage 
they were about to starting :-/

>
> Hardly any organization that has been in this business for more than 10 
> years is using every address they have for the exact purpose for which it 
> was approved. 
>

...i hope that they, at least, usually go back to the registration service (as expected) to justify the change on the utilization, they planed themselves, of the allocated INRs.

>
> None the less, delegating addresses to customers for their legitimate use 
> as unique internet addresses remains the primary purpose of any IR whether 
> it be regional, national, or local. 
>

...a candidate for a *review of INRs*? or 
am i missing something :-/
__
[1]: RSA section 2.(d) 
<https://afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa>
~?~
(d) where the original information 
submitted has been the subject of any 
change, same has to be notified 
promptly, accurately and fully to AfriNIC 
by an authoritative and valid contact.
~?~

>
> There exists no requirement in policy that such delegations involve 
> connectivity services. In fact, no RIR provides connectivity services to 
> any of the organizations it issues addresses to. 
>
> [...] 
>

Shalom,
--sb.

>
> Owen
>[...]
>> AfriNIC staff: has any LIR applied for IP space for the purpose of
>> *leasing* and received IP address space?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Frank
>>
>> ______________________
>>
>
> [...]
>

Le 5 f?vrier 2021 20:35:47 GMT+01:00, Sylvain Baya <abscoco at gmail.com> a ?crit :
>
>
>Le ven. 5 f?vr. 2021 14:44, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> a ?crit :
>
>> Originally, the space was used for some rather specialized
>connectivity 
>> services. Due to changes in the market and the legal environment,
>those 
>> services became less lucrative and the organization pivoted. 
>>
>> Hardly any organization that has been in this business for more than
>10 
>> years is using every address they have for the exact purpose for
>which it 
>> was approved. 
>>
>> None the less, delegating addresses to customers for their legitimate
>use 
>> as unique internet addresses remains the primary purpose of any IR
>whether 
>> it be regional, national, or local. 
>>
>> There exists no requirement in policy that such delegations involve 
>> connectivity services. In fact, no RIR provides connectivity services
>to 
>> any of the organizations it issues addresses to. 
>>
>> Certainly, if such a requirement were intended, it could have been
>written 
>> into the policy. 
>>
>> Owen
>>
>>
>> On Feb 5, 2021, at 04:39, Arnaud AMELINA <amelnaud at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> ?
>>
>>
>>> AfriNIC staff: has any LIR applied for IP space for the purpose of
>>> *leasing* and received IP address space?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Frank
>>>
>>> ______________________
>>>
>>
>> Question tr?s importante, et esp?rons une r?ponse ad?quat de la part
>du 
>> STAFF d'AFRINIC. 
>>
>> Cordialement 
>>
>> Very important question, hope an adequate response from AFRINIC
>STAFF. 
>>
>> Regards 
>>
>> --
>> Arnaud 
>>
>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>

-- 
p?p - i'm trying (pretty Easy privacy)
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From PorkyProtection at protonmail.com  Sat Feb  6 21:54:09 2021
From: PorkyProtection at protonmail.com (PorkyProtection)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2021 21:54:09 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Response to Owen Delong
Message-ID: <SbvA9tz1jSUALYDUZz5Iar9pK00sTaAdSlWEg6WIB3PPNClmA_gc3uqo9BH-bJ71Rx8Fr_XnJoplYn5QFCoVb8TG43NXOiDXd57yA7lX67s=@protonmail.com>

In response to:
https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-February/003910.html

Owen,

Can you please share with the community how much Cloud Innovation Ltd is paying you each month in your retainer ?

You are doing a very good job! you should request a raise.

You don't need to make an effort so much, we all believe that your employer (which is an IPv4 leasing company) received for "free" and in honest way two /11's and two /12's, all from AfriNIC pool that belong to the AfriNIC community.

And because your employer received it all in honest way, AfriNIC didn't take a single resource that was allocated to your employer (What does your employer knows? What do you know?). Not a single word in AfriNIC report regarding Cloud Innovation Ltd, it looks very strange, especially when all the resources in AfriNIC report are a fraction comparing to the endless number of non-legacy resources that were allocated by AfriNIC for "free" to Cloud Innovation Ltd.

You are a criminal Owen, trying to protect with all your power the massive amount of non-legacy resources that were given by AfriNIC for "free" to the person that paid you and is paying you.

Unlike legacy resources, the massive amount of non-legacy resources that your employer received for "free", belong by law to the AfriNIC community.

Here is a partial list of Cloud Innovation non-legacy resources:

156.224.0.0/11
154.192.0.0/11
45.192.0.0/12
154.80.0.0/12

I would like to point out the following regarding your quotes:

---
"Originally, the space was used for some rather specialized connectivity services. Due to changes in the market and the legal environment, those services became less lucrative and the organization pivoted."
"Hardly any organization that has been in this business for more than 10 years is using every address they have for the exact purpose for which it was approved."
---
The four above non-legacy netblocks were allocated on 2015 and 2016 and 2014 and 2013 respectively, according to AfriNIC whois, and not more than 10 years ago.
According to Cloud Innovation Ltd homepage (https://cloudinnovation.org) - it was Established in 2013 (and in some point it partnered with LARUS Limited, another company of Mr. Lu).
In Mr. Lu webpage in his LARUS website (https://www.larus.net/heng-lu) his following quote is written:
"in 2016, I founded LARUS Limited, which became the market leader of IP (Internet Protocol) solutions provider in the world."
154.192.0.0/11 was allocated to Cloud Innovation Ltd on 23th of September 2016.
According to RIPE Routing History tool, 154.192.0.0/16 (as well as many other /16's in 154.192.0.0/11) started to be announced by SEACOM (AS37353) on 20th of September 2016.

https://stat.ripe.net/widget/routing-history#w.resource=154.192.0.0/24

Also according to the RIPE Routing History tool it is possible to see how the all the non-legacy resources were leased to (or through) SEACOM (AS37353) near the time that the second /11 was handed to Mr. Lu (on 20th of September 2016).

Through RIPE Routing History tool it is possible to see how all the non-legacy resources that your employer received was intended for leasing purposes.

One last comment regarding your statement:
"Originally, the space was used for some rather specialized connectivity services"
Can you please explain to us all bird brains, like your friend Ronald mentioned, that don't know to read and to interpret the policies and procedures as you are, what "specialized connectivity services" need two whole /11's and /12's ? (equal to 6,291,456 IPv4 addresses that belong to AfriNIC community and currently being leased around the world, also for your own profit)

To me it looks like you are trying to scam us all like you scammed AfriNIC.

What is going on here, to whom Mr. Lu is paying that AfriNIC is doing exactly nothing regarding him.
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From rfg at tristatelogic.com  Sun Feb  7 07:09:19 2021
From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette)
Date: Sat, 06 Feb 2021 23:09:19 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Response to Owen Delong
In-Reply-To: <SbvA9tz1jSUALYDUZz5Iar9pK00sTaAdSlWEg6WIB3PPNClmA_gc3uqo9BH-bJ71Rx8Fr_XnJoplYn5QFCoVb8TG43NXOiDXd57yA7lX67s=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <84272.1612681759@segfault.tristatelogic.com>

In message <SbvA9tz1jSUALYDUZz5Iar9pK00sTaAdSlWEg6WIB3PPNClmA_gc3uqo9BH-bJ71Rx8Fr_Xn
JoplYn5QFCoVb8TG43NXOiDXd57yA7lX67s=@protonmail.com>, 
PorkyProtection <PorkyProtection at protonmail.com> wrote:

>{... a bunch of meaningless gibberish snipped...}

May we please have the postamster at afrinic.net block all further postings
from anonymous (and spineless) freemail spammer accounts at protonmail.com ?

First we had to endure the garbage posted by Deepak Mehta's sock puppet,
and now it looks like Elad Cohen is following in his footsteps and using
a different protonmail.com freemail account to avoid the block already
enacted against his lunatic rantings.  So now Elad is back, and trying
again to stir up the waters with fact-free and evidence-free religious
nonsense.

These people are lunatics, cowards, and theives whose only purpose for posting
here is to try to wriggle out of accountability for their own crinminal
misdeeds.


Regards,
rfg



From PorkyProtection at protonmail.com  Sun Feb  7 10:47:29 2021
From: PorkyProtection at protonmail.com (PorkyProtection)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2021 10:47:29 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Response to Owen Delong
In-Reply-To: <84272.1612681759@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
References: <84272.1612681759@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
Message-ID: <sMPjzJgSXlOBs_OuupE0lIsr0MCajX4wAkDIv7mdfkqOF8_cvcCIGKX7shzoVjtfXPZM3T0ubH-MmKAVhlwu7ABo92Iv169O54J-rlJmCRI=@protonmail.com>

To me it looks like you are the sock puppet of Owen and Cloud Innovation Ltd.

And it is funny that you speak about sock puppets, when Ronald F. Guilmette died from COVID-19 but his account still being used somehow...

Can you please verify to us your identity ? HINT: You will not do it.




And Owen, I and I'm sure that many other Afrinic members will be happy to receive answers from you, unless you prefer your sock puppet to spread fear, doubt and uncertainty, because there is "Nothing to see here".



??????? Original Message ???????
On Sunday, February 7, 2021 9:09 AM, Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg at tristatelogic.com> wrote:

> In message <SbvA9tz1jSUALYDUZz5Iar9pK00sTaAdSlWEg6WIB3PPNClmA_gc3uqo9BH-bJ71Rx8Fr_Xn
> JoplYn5QFCoVb8TG43NXOiDXd57yA7lX67s=@protonmail.com>,
> PorkyProtection PorkyProtection at protonmail.com wrote:
>
> > {... a bunch of meaningless gibberish snipped...}
>
> May we please have thepostamster at afrinic.net block all further postings
> from anonymous (and spineless) freemail spammer accounts at protonmail.com ?
>
> First we had to endure the garbage posted by Deepak Mehta's sock puppet,
> and now it looks like Elad Cohen is following in his footsteps and using
> a different protonmail.com freemail account to avoid the block already
> enacted against his lunatic rantings. So now Elad is back, and trying
> again to stir up the waters with fact-free and evidence-free religious
> nonsense.
>
> These people are lunatics, cowards, and theives whose only purpose for posting
> here is to try to wriggle out of accountability for their own crinminal
> misdeeds.
>
> Regards,
> rfg
>
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss





From sock-puppet-420 at protonmail.com  Sun Feb  7 17:56:15 2021
From: sock-puppet-420 at protonmail.com (sock-puppet-420)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2021 17:56:15 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Response to PorkyProtection
Message-ID: <FeCVhVnqDWKDKAEZEugjR8kFGg3GH4JPyOHhy5o9mH-cfWi-Q6_Ot4CgqjvXBW5J5Z-F19T51VhvyDDUVmXS3Ar42EM-Sha5EqkiY-5joW4=@protonmail.com>

Dear PorkyProtection,

You are a dweeb. Please get a life.

--
--
Sock Puppet on behalf of PorkyProtection
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From PorkyProtection at protonmail.com  Sun Feb  7 19:36:03 2021
From: PorkyProtection at protonmail.com (PorkyProtection)
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 2021 19:36:03 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Response to PorkyProtection
In-Reply-To: <FeCVhVnqDWKDKAEZEugjR8kFGg3GH4JPyOHhy5o9mH-cfWi-Q6_Ot4CgqjvXBW5J5Z-F19T51VhvyDDUVmXS3Ar42EM-Sha5EqkiY-5joW4=@protonmail.com>
References: <FeCVhVnqDWKDKAEZEugjR8kFGg3GH4JPyOHhy5o9mH-cfWi-Q6_Ot4CgqjvXBW5J5Z-F19T51VhvyDDUVmXS3Ar42EM-Sha5EqkiY-5joW4=@protonmail.com>
Message-ID: <sslGbEjiwVv1ZouG4GjX23-sbVsekZdGlEfIMes3m8cwufbVXfIZRoQkCMFPVLdn-zcaKQiKC_fDpLwDJ0NjnOP3uOIjB5tEB8w5LKXIXYM=@protonmail.com>

Mr. Lu, you can just use your regular email address.

It came to my mind, why on 2017 you didn't request an additional netblock of /10 ? (to continue the sequence)

Was it because the company changed direction like your advisor Owen wrote, before it?

So just for us bird brains (like Ronald wrote) to understand, for approximately 3 years (from the first /12 netblock allocation on 2013 to the last /11 netblock allocation on 2016) - there was an actual use by Cloud Innovation Ltd for 6,291,456 IPv4 addresses according to their initial justification ? so there should be customers and invoices and suppliers for the initial "justified" amount of IPv4 addresses which I'm sure that you can show.

According to older versions of the site of CloudInnovation.org in WayBackMachine, the company, like its name, "provided" cloud services, I wonder which cloud services need 6,291,456 IPv4 addresses, maybe you can please explain it to us all bird brains? or maybe your advisor Owen can explain it?

One last point, the four netblocks were assigned one at each year (starting from 2013), so in order to receive the netblocks after the first /12 in 2013, you needed to show usage of the already allocated very big netblock/s, so you had paying customers for millions of IPv4 addresses ? and then suddenly after 3 years you decided to shift the direction of the company as Owen stated and to lease your resources ? Based on Afrinic policies for receiving non-legacy netblocks allocations after the first one, I'm pretty sure that you can show all the customers and invoices and payments that you showed to Afrinic in order to receive the second /12 in 2014 and the first /11 in 2015 and the second /11 in 2016.

Or, was it, as Owen called it: "specialized connectivity services" with context of "from ten years ago".

Looks to me like a specialized scam.

??????? Original Message ???????
On Sunday, February 7, 2021 7:56 PM, sock-puppet-420 via Community-Discuss <community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote:

> Dear PorkyProtection,
>
> You are a dweeb. Please get a life.
>
> --
> --
> Sock Puppet on behalf of PorkyProtection
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From noah at neo.co.tz  Tue Feb  9 21:21:39 2021
From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 00:21:39 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Notice to all the legacy netblocks holders
	in AfriNIC
In-Reply-To: <58415843-9BDC-4B63-A452-1500991D48F0@delong.com>
References: <CAGDMR_dvNpdmucEEyMQOb1m5Mkq58LAS+MF44LHTGREA_Zrz+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <58415843-9BDC-4B63-A452-1500991D48F0@delong.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqgTWa9UEFzMXxUwW=GEh6Aaxtic1__LNfoip1wD15Ern6bgg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 4:47 PM Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:

> Originally, the space was used for some rather specialized connectivity
> services. Due to changes in the market and the legal environment, those
> services became less lucrative and the organization pivoted.
>
> Hardly any organization that has been in this business for more than 10
> years is using every address they have for the exact purpose for which it
> was approved.
>
> None the less, delegating addresses to customers for their legitimate use
> as unique internet addresses remains the primary purpose of any IR whether
> it be regional, national, or local.
>
> There exists no requirement in policy that such delegations involve
> connectivity services. In fact, no RIR provides connectivity services to
> any of the organizations it issues addresses to.
>
> Certainly, if such a requirement were intended, it could have been written
> into the policy.
>
> Owen
>

Hi Owen,


Firstly, thank you so much for making more explicit the evidence which has
been discussed here by the community since 2014.


IPv4 Addresses must be used for the purpose they were requested for
and *leasing
is not allowed*.


I also find your point about RIR not providing connectivity services to
organizations it issues addresses to, inappropriate because you know very
well the mandate, role and the responsibilities of entities in the current
Internet number registry hierarchy.


Noah
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From noah at neo.co.tz  Tue Feb  9 22:11:55 2021
From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah)
Date: Wed, 10 Feb 2021 01:11:55 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Blog: A Comprehensive audit of the AFRINIC
 WHOIS Database
In-Reply-To: <8E2D46C5-F034-4ACD-9C09-1BD1116E12CF@afrinic.net>
References: <8E2D46C5-F034-4ACD-9C09-1BD1116E12CF@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <CAEqgTWah944VmGg7iRZ_9qvANgQTZt9QQsr33WjPCkcT+=-hqQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi AFRINIC Team,

While reading the report, I noted that among the recommendations on how to
make things better, was below.


   - The report recommends that the AFRINIC community critically assess how
   best the accuracy of the information pertaining to Legacy Resource Holders
   can be improved and considers whether unused legacy resources should be
   left idle while AFRINIC exhausts its remaining pool of IPv4 addresses.

How much unused legacy resources are we looking at?

Should we not add that space to the free pool for future allocations?

*./noah*
neo - network engineering and operations


On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 2:22 PM AFRINIC Communication <comms at afrinic.net>
wrote:

> [Version en fran?ais au bas]
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
> We have published a blog on the comprehensive audit of all IPv4 number
> resources in the AFRINIC WHOIS Database. The blog also highlights what has
> been done so far at AFRINIC in the wake of the findings of the audit.
>
> Read the blog at: http://bit.ly/AFRINICBlog-Database-Accuracy
>
> Ashil Oogarah
> On behalf of the Communications and PR Team
>
>
> ????????????
>
> Chers coll?gues,
>
> Nous avons publi? un blog sur l'audit complet de toutes les ressources
> num?riques IPv4 dans la base de donn?es WHOIS d'AFRINIC. Le blog met
> ?galement en ?vidence ce qui a ?t? fait jusqu'? pr?sent ? AFRINIC ? la
> suite des conclusions de l'audit.
>
> Lisez le blog ? l'adresse suivante :
> http://bit.ly/AFRINICBlog-Database-Accuracy
>
> Ashil Oogarah
> Au nom de l'?quipe de Communications et des Relations Publiques
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
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From rfg at tristatelogic.com  Wed Feb 10 00:25:43 2021
From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2021 16:25:43 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Blog: A Comprehensive audit of the AFRINIC
	WHOIS Database
In-Reply-To: <CAEqgTWah944VmGg7iRZ_9qvANgQTZt9QQsr33WjPCkcT+=-hqQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <26116.1612916743@segfault.tristatelogic.com>

In message <CAEqgTWah944VmGg7iRZ_9qvANgQTZt9QQsr33WjPCkcT+=-hqQ at mail.gmail.com>, 
Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:

>While reading the report, I noted that among the recommendations on how to
>make things better, was below.
>
>   - The report recommends that the AFRINIC community critically assess how
>   best the accuracy of the information pertaining to Legacy Resource Holders
>   can be improved and considers whether unused legacy resources should be
>   left idle while AFRINIC exhausts its remaining pool of IPv4 addresses.

Please note that this problem... which I personally like to call the
"recycling problem"... is not at all unique to AFRINIC.  All five of the
regional internet registries are suffering, to one degree or another,
with the problem of what to do about long-abandoned legacy blocks.

Although few people know even know about the problem, it is rampant, and
it *is* a real and serious cause for global concern.  As I hope everyone
in the AFRINIC region now knows, and as was already evident as far back
as 2008, when I and Brian Krebs reported on the case of the "SF Bay Packet
Radio" abandoned legacy ARIN /16 block, the Internet has become, in effect,
a happy hunting ground for multiple gangs of essentially lawless marauders
who have beo cme focused, quite specifically, on stealing or squatting
specifically on abadonded legacy blocks.  And once they have successfully
stolen or squatted on such blocks, these criminal miscreants have proven,
time and time again, that they are not too particular about the kinds of
customers they then lease parts of such pilfered IPv4 space to.  The result
is that invariably, these crooks end up leasing their stolen IP space to
yet other criminal enterprises, and that, in turn, endangers us all, we the
global community of honest Internet users.

Something should most certainly be doen to address this ongoing and recurring
problem.  But it is legally somewhat tricky to take back legacy IP space
which is not covered by any contract with any RIR.  Still that is no
excuse not to try.

I have previously put forward the idea that we can and should look to the
well established principals of international maritime law in order to
properly address this problem.  Under international maritime law the
concept of abanndoned property, and rights relating to salvage, are
quite well established.  It is way past time for the international
internet, and the governance organizations thereof, to grow up, slip out
of their infantile diapers, and for them to create at least some sensible
legal framework and provisions for the recovery of abandoned property,
especially those chunks of long-abandoned property that have long since
become what any lawyer or any sane person would easly recognizes being
an attractive public nuisance.  The fact that neither ICANN nor any of
the RIRs has yet even begun this process is a sad commentary on the
current state of "Internet governance", which might more aptly be called
"Internet not-really-benign neglect".

In short, "leadership" when it comes to Internet governance is, and has
been for many years now, arguably non-existant, at least with respect to
this issue, if not also with respect to many many others.


Regards,
rfg



From noah at neo.co.tz  Thu Feb 11 09:57:26 2021
From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 12:57:26 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Blog: A Comprehensive audit of the AFRINIC
 WHOIS Database
In-Reply-To: <26116.1612916743@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
References: <CAEqgTWah944VmGg7iRZ_9qvANgQTZt9QQsr33WjPCkcT+=-hqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <26116.1612916743@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqgTWYPM=tXAEYnHpxExFBEUvJAX6G6K5kLOc1TuzT1G1Os4A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ronald

In short AFRINIC is paving the way and seeks the communities input on how
to handle the abandoned space.

When one attempts a whois query today, you will note a flag which AFRINIC
has slapped on most of the legacy space which has since been recovered some
of which is under dispute.

But we have an RIR in AFRINIC which is now trying to do something about it.

I am of the view that we perhaps engage the working group to see if we can
work out a policy on how to handle the space and/or getting it into the
free pool.

Noah



On Wed, 10 Feb 2021, 03:31 Ronald F. Guilmette, <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
wrote:

> In message <CAEqgTWah944VmGg7iRZ_9qvANgQTZt9QQsr33WjPCkcT+=-
> hqQ at mail.gmail.com>,
> Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:
>
> >While reading the report, I noted that among the recommendations on how to
> >make things better, was below.
> >
> >   - The report recommends that the AFRINIC community critically assess
> how
> >   best the accuracy of the information pertaining to Legacy Resource
> Holders
> >   can be improved and considers whether unused legacy resources should be
> >   left idle while AFRINIC exhausts its remaining pool of IPv4 addresses.
>
> Please note that this problem... which I personally like to call the
> "recycling problem"... is not at all unique to AFRINIC.  All five of the
> regional internet registries are suffering, to one degree or another,
> with the problem of what to do about long-abandoned legacy blocks.
>
> Although few people know even know about the problem, it is rampant, and
> it *is* a real and serious cause for global concern.  As I hope everyone
> in the AFRINIC region now knows, and as was already evident as far back
> as 2008, when I and Brian Krebs reported on the case of the "SF Bay Packet
> Radio" abandoned legacy ARIN /16 block, the Internet has become, in effect,
> a happy hunting ground for multiple gangs of essentially lawless marauders
> who have beo cme focused, quite specifically, on stealing or squatting
> specifically on abadonded legacy blocks.  And once they have successfully
> stolen or squatted on such blocks, these criminal miscreants have proven,
> time and time again, that they are not too particular about the kinds of
> customers they then lease parts of such pilfered IPv4 space to.  The result
> is that invariably, these crooks end up leasing their stolen IP space to
> yet other criminal enterprises, and that, in turn, endangers us all, we the
> global community of honest Internet users.
>
> Something should most certainly be doen to address this ongoing and
> recurring
> problem.  But it is legally somewhat tricky to take back legacy IP space
> which is not covered by any contract with any RIR.  Still that is no
> excuse not to try.
>
> I have previously put forward the idea that we can and should look to the
> well established principals of international maritime law in order to
> properly address this problem.  Under international maritime law the
> concept of abanndoned property, and rights relating to salvage, are
> quite well established.  It is way past time for the international
> internet, and the governance organizations thereof, to grow up, slip out
> of their infantile diapers, and for them to create at least some sensible
> legal framework and provisions for the recovery of abandoned property,
> especially those chunks of long-abandoned property that have long since
> become what any lawyer or any sane person would easly recognizes being
> an attractive public nuisance.  The fact that neither ICANN nor any of
> the RIRs has yet even begun this process is a sad commentary on the
> current state of "Internet governance", which might more aptly be called
> "Internet not-really-benign neglect".
>
> In short, "leadership" when it comes to Internet governance is, and has
> been for many years now, arguably non-existant, at least with respect to
> this issue, if not also with respect to many many others.
>
>
> Regards,
> rfg
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
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From sfolayan at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 10:56:54 2021
From: sfolayan at gmail.com (Sunday Folayan)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 11:56:54 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Blog: A Comprehensive audit of the AFRINIC
 WHOIS Database
In-Reply-To: <CAEqgTWYPM=tXAEYnHpxExFBEUvJAX6G6K5kLOc1TuzT1G1Os4A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEqgTWah944VmGg7iRZ_9qvANgQTZt9QQsr33WjPCkcT+=-hqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <26116.1612916743@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
 <CAEqgTWYPM=tXAEYnHpxExFBEUvJAX6G6K5kLOc1TuzT1G1Os4A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0b787eda-9288-d290-4ae5-282a38295cf8@gmail.com>

 From the report ...

  * Our current business rules now provide better support to legacy
    resource holders such that proper verification for legacy resources
    holders will be conducted before any updates are made to the records
    on the AFRINIC WHOIS database.

It is important to quickly address why legacy holders should continue to 
get **ANY** service from AFRINIC without any form of contract, 
agreement, relationship or association.

Sunday.


On 2/11/21 10:57 AM, Noah wrote:
> Hi Ronald
>
> In short AFRINIC is paving the way and seeks the communities input on 
> how to handle the abandoned space.
>
> When one attempts a whois query today, you will note a flag which 
> AFRINIC has slapped on most of the legacy space which has since been 
> recovered some of which is under dispute.
>
> But we have an RIR in AFRINIC which is now trying to do something 
> about it.
>
> I am of the view that we perhaps engage the working group to see if we 
> can work out a policy on how to handle the space and/or getting it 
> into the free pool.
>
> Noah
>
>
>
> On Wed, 10 Feb 2021, 03:31 Ronald F. Guilmette, <rfg at tristatelogic.com 
> <mailto:rfg at tristatelogic.com>> wrote:
>
>     In message
>     <CAEqgTWah944VmGg7iRZ_9qvANgQTZt9QQsr33WjPCkcT+=-hqQ at mail.gmail.com
>     <mailto:hqQ at mail.gmail.com>>,
>     Noah <noah at neo.co.tz <mailto:noah at neo.co.tz>> wrote:
>
>     >While reading the report, I noted that among the recommendations
>     on how to
>     >make things better, was below.
>     >
>     >? ?- The report recommends that the AFRINIC community critically
>     assess how
>     >? ?best the accuracy of the information pertaining to Legacy
>     Resource Holders
>     >? ?can be improved and considers whether unused legacy resources
>     should be
>     >? ?left idle while AFRINIC exhausts its remaining pool of IPv4
>     addresses.
>
>     Please note that this problem... which I personally like to call the
>     "recycling problem"... is not at all unique to AFRINIC.? All five
>     of the
>     regional internet registries are suffering, to one degree or another,
>     with the problem of what to do about long-abandoned legacy blocks.
>
>     Although few people know even know about the problem, it is
>     rampant, and
>     it *is* a real and serious cause for global concern.? As I hope
>     everyone
>     in the AFRINIC region now knows, and as was already evident as far
>     back
>     as 2008, when I and Brian Krebs reported on the case of the "SF
>     Bay Packet
>     Radio" abandoned legacy ARIN /16 block, the Internet has become,
>     in effect,
>     a happy hunting ground for multiple gangs of essentially lawless
>     marauders
>     who have beo cme focused, quite specifically, on stealing or squatting
>     specifically on abadonded legacy blocks.? And once they have
>     successfully
>     stolen or squatted on such blocks, these criminal miscreants have
>     proven,
>     time and time again, that they are not too particular about the
>     kinds of
>     customers they then lease parts of such pilfered IPv4 space to.?
>     The result
>     is that invariably, these crooks end up leasing their stolen IP
>     space to
>     yet other criminal enterprises, and that, in turn, endangers us
>     all, we the
>     global community of honest Internet users.
>
>     Something should most certainly be doen to address this ongoing
>     and recurring
>     problem.? But it is legally somewhat tricky to take back legacy IP
>     space
>     which is not covered by any contract with any RIR.? Still that is no
>     excuse not to try.
>
>     I have previously put forward the idea that we can and should look
>     to the
>     well established principals of international maritime law in order to
>     properly address this problem.? Under international maritime law the
>     concept of abanndoned property, and rights relating to salvage, are
>     quite well established.? It is way past time for the international
>     internet, and the governance organizations thereof, to grow up,
>     slip out
>     of their infantile diapers, and for them to create at least some
>     sensible
>     legal framework and provisions for the recovery of abandoned property,
>     especially those chunks of long-abandoned property that have long
>     since
>     become what any lawyer or any sane person would easly recognizes being
>     an attractive public nuisance.? The fact that neither ICANN nor any of
>     the RIRs has yet even begun this process is a sad commentary on the
>     current state of "Internet governance", which might more aptly be
>     called
>     "Internet not-really-benign neglect".
>
>     In short, "leadership" when it comes to Internet governance is,
>     and has
>     been for many years now, arguably non-existant, at least with
>     respect to
>     this issue, if not also with respect to many many others.
>
>
>     Regards,
>     rfg
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Community-Discuss mailing list
>     Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>     https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

-- 
--------------------------------------------------
Sunday Adekunle Folayan
Managing Director
General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
---------------------------------------------------

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From noah at neo.co.tz  Thu Feb 11 11:02:01 2021
From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 14:02:01 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Blog: A Comprehensive audit of the AFRINIC
 WHOIS Database
In-Reply-To: <0b787eda-9288-d290-4ae5-282a38295cf8@gmail.com>
References: <CAEqgTWah944VmGg7iRZ_9qvANgQTZt9QQsr33WjPCkcT+=-hqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <26116.1612916743@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
 <CAEqgTWYPM=tXAEYnHpxExFBEUvJAX6G6K5kLOc1TuzT1G1Os4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <0b787eda-9288-d290-4ae5-282a38295cf8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqgTWZyBRQX3hso-F9VYWDRGtbBgOypcuDuPcYCfn2tCh04pw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 11 Feb 2021, 13:57 Sunday Folayan, <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:

> From the report ...
>
>    - Our current business rules now provide better support to legacy
>    resource holders such that proper verification for legacy resources holders
>    will be conducted before any updates are made to the records on the AFRINIC
>    WHOIS database.
>
> It is important to quickly address why legacy holders should continue to
> get **ANY** service from AFRINIC without any form of contract, agreement,
> relationship or association.
>

That is another important discussion which can be addressed by the PDWG.

Most importantly, the community needs to decide on what AFRINIC must do
with idle legacy space include the recently recovered numbers.

Noah
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From sfolayan at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 11:15:37 2021
From: sfolayan at gmail.com (Sunday Folayan)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 12:15:37 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Blog: A Comprehensive audit of the AFRINIC
 WHOIS Database
In-Reply-To: <CAEqgTWZyBRQX3hso-F9VYWDRGtbBgOypcuDuPcYCfn2tCh04pw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEqgTWah944VmGg7iRZ_9qvANgQTZt9QQsr33WjPCkcT+=-hqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <26116.1612916743@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
 <CAEqgTWYPM=tXAEYnHpxExFBEUvJAX6G6K5kLOc1TuzT1G1Os4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <0b787eda-9288-d290-4ae5-282a38295cf8@gmail.com>
 <CAEqgTWZyBRQX3hso-F9VYWDRGtbBgOypcuDuPcYCfn2tCh04pw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ef77e9a3-16f6-f7b8-5418-e11acbee9931@gmail.com>


On 2/11/21 12:02 PM, Noah wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, 11 Feb 2021, 13:57 Sunday Folayan, <sfolayan at gmail.com 
> <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     From the report ...
>
>       * Our current business rules now provide better support to
>         legacy resource holders such that proper verification for
>         legacy resources holders will be conducted before any updates
>         are made to the records on the AFRINIC WHOIS database.
>
>     It is important to quickly address why legacy holders should
>     continue to get **ANY** service from AFRINIC without any form of
>     contract, agreement, relationship or association.
>
>
> That is another important discussion which can be addressed by the PDWG.
>
> Most importantly, the community needs to decide on what AFRINIC must 
> do with idle legacy space include the recently recovered numbers.


Noah,

There is an hierarchy regarding the legacy space:

1. Legacy Space as a whole

2. Idle Legacy Space [There are indeed legacy spaces in use, and not idle]

3. Hijacked and now recovered Idle legacy Space. [There are some legacy 
spaces that can never be reclaimed by their initial allotees, probably 
because they are out of business, and there is no successor organization]

I presume you are talking about 2 and 3. I am talking about 1.

Perhaps we should look at addressing 1, 2, & 3.

Sunday.

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From noah at neo.co.tz  Thu Feb 11 11:30:16 2021
From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 14:30:16 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Blog: A Comprehensive audit of the AFRINIC
 WHOIS Database
In-Reply-To: <ef77e9a3-16f6-f7b8-5418-e11acbee9931@gmail.com>
References: <CAEqgTWah944VmGg7iRZ_9qvANgQTZt9QQsr33WjPCkcT+=-hqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <26116.1612916743@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
 <CAEqgTWYPM=tXAEYnHpxExFBEUvJAX6G6K5kLOc1TuzT1G1Os4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <0b787eda-9288-d290-4ae5-282a38295cf8@gmail.com>
 <CAEqgTWZyBRQX3hso-F9VYWDRGtbBgOypcuDuPcYCfn2tCh04pw@mail.gmail.com>
 <ef77e9a3-16f6-f7b8-5418-e11acbee9931@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqgTWYDPV1z6o4PY9AXJZM_beD2QSHKSLpCXALrzmcQNLea6w@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 11 Feb 2021, 14:15 Sunday Folayan, <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> On 2/11/21 12:02 PM, Noah wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thu, 11 Feb 2021, 13:57 Sunday Folayan, <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From the report ...
>>
>>    - Our current business rules now provide better support to legacy
>>    resource holders such that proper verification for legacy resources holders
>>    will be conducted before any updates are made to the records on the AFRINIC
>>    WHOIS database.
>>
>> It is important to quickly address why legacy holders should continue to
>> get **ANY** service from AFRINIC without any form of contract, agreement,
>> relationship or association.
>>
>
> That is another important discussion which can be addressed by the PDWG.
>
> Most importantly, the community needs to decide on what AFRINIC must do
> with idle legacy space include the recently recovered numbers.
>
>
> Noah,
>
> There is an hierarchy regarding the legacy space:
>
> 1. Legacy Space as a whole
>
> 2. Idle Legacy Space [There are indeed legacy spaces in use, and not idle]
>
> 3. Hijacked and now recovered Idle legacy Space. [There are some legacy
> spaces that can never be reclaimed by their initial allotees, probably
> because they are out of business, and there is no successor organization]
>
> I presume you are talking about 2 and 3. I am talking about 1.
>
> Perhaps we should look at addressing 1, 2, & 3.
>

Yes we look at addressing all and discussions can be moved to the PDWG
and/or DBWG where there are some discussions around whowas because it would
help to know the history behind the space in case an entity is to show up
claim ownership.

AFRINIC should equally be accountable as a registry and I believe we are on
the right trajectory.

Noah
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From owen at delong.com  Thu Feb 11 11:42:46 2021
From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 03:42:46 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Blog: A Comprehensive audit of the AFRINIC
 WHOIS Database
In-Reply-To: <CAEqgTWah944VmGg7iRZ_9qvANgQTZt9QQsr33WjPCkcT+=-hqQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8E2D46C5-F034-4ACD-9C09-1BD1116E12CF@afrinic.net>
 <CAEqgTWah944VmGg7iRZ_9qvANgQTZt9QQsr33WjPCkcT+=-hqQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56FF34F4-04C8-48F3-BFC6-699669F55CD2@delong.com>



> On Feb 9, 2021, at 14:11 , Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:
> 
> Hi AFRINIC Team,
> 
> While reading the report, I noted that among the recommendations on how to make things better, was below.
> 
> The report recommends that the AFRINIC community critically assess how best the accuracy of the information pertaining to Legacy Resource Holders can be improved and considers whether unused legacy resources should be left idle while AFRINIC exhausts its remaining pool of IPv4 addresses.
> How much unused legacy resources are we looking at?  

There is literally no way to know whether legacy resources are used or not. There are rare cases where it can be determined that resources are unused or at least no longer used by their holder of record (e.g. the holder of record no longer exists, or the holder of record explicitly returns or transfers the resources). There are common cases where it can easily be determined that the resources are utilized (they are announced by the holder of record or a legitimate designee in a publicly visible BGP table).

However, unannounced legacy resources are mostly in an unknown state of utilization and it is essentially impossible to determine whether or not they are actually in use.

> Should we not add that space to the free pool for future allocations?   

If you can properly and sufficiently identify it, then sure.

Owen


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From noah at neo.co.tz  Thu Feb 11 11:49:43 2021
From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 14:49:43 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Blog: A Comprehensive audit of the AFRINIC
 WHOIS Database
In-Reply-To: <56FF34F4-04C8-48F3-BFC6-699669F55CD2@delong.com>
References: <8E2D46C5-F034-4ACD-9C09-1BD1116E12CF@afrinic.net>
 <CAEqgTWah944VmGg7iRZ_9qvANgQTZt9QQsr33WjPCkcT+=-hqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <56FF34F4-04C8-48F3-BFC6-699669F55CD2@delong.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqgTWaHcK_EdCiKVmt5jPgRjrVuqyN0jBfw6Z8kNBL=737duQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 11 Feb 2021, 14:42 Owen DeLong, <owen at delong.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Feb 9, 2021, at 14:11 , Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:
>
> Hi AFRINIC Team,
>
> While reading the report, I noted that among the recommendations on how to
> make things better, was below.
>
>
>    - The report recommends that the AFRINIC community critically assess
>    how best the accuracy of the information pertaining to Legacy Resource
>    Holders can be improved and considers whether unused legacy resources
>    should be left idle while AFRINIC exhausts its remaining pool of IPv4
>    addresses.
>
> How much unused legacy resources are we looking at?
>
>
> There is literally no way to know whether legacy resources are used or
> not.
>

Did you read the statement that formed part of the recommendation from
AFRINIC or you are jumping to conclusions.

AFRINIC is asking us the community to consider whether unused legacy
resources should be left idle while AFRINIC exhausts its remaining pool and
my question to AFRINIC was simple...

How much unused legacy resources are we looking at?

Noah
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From owen at delong.com  Thu Feb 11 12:02:09 2021
From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 04:02:09 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Blog: A Comprehensive audit of the AFRINIC
 WHOIS Database
In-Reply-To: <ef77e9a3-16f6-f7b8-5418-e11acbee9931@gmail.com>
References: <CAEqgTWah944VmGg7iRZ_9qvANgQTZt9QQsr33WjPCkcT+=-hqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <26116.1612916743@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
 <CAEqgTWYPM=tXAEYnHpxExFBEUvJAX6G6K5kLOc1TuzT1G1Os4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <0b787eda-9288-d290-4ae5-282a38295cf8@gmail.com>
 <CAEqgTWZyBRQX3hso-F9VYWDRGtbBgOypcuDuPcYCfn2tCh04pw@mail.gmail.com>
 <ef77e9a3-16f6-f7b8-5418-e11acbee9931@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2AD1B79E-F757-41B4-ADF1-26FABE59DE84@delong.com>

> Noah,
> 
> There is an hierarchy regarding the legacy space:
> 
> 1. Legacy Space as a whole

I think the idea of ?legacy space? is a mistake. The idea that there is some magical property to addresses which were first issued prior to the existence of RIRs which is preserved in perpetuity is absurd.

There are legacy registrations which have certain questions about their contractual status and there is a great deal of ambiguity around what obligations the RIRs have towards those registrants and what, if any obligations those registrants have with regard to the RIRs.

However, once that space is transferred, it should not have any special status. The new registrant should sign a contract with the RIR and should receive the space under the same terms and conditions as if that space was issued today.

> 2. Idle Legacy Space [There are indeed legacy spaces in use, and not idle]
> 

This would be legacy registrations where the registrant is not using the space or where the registrant no longer exists and the space has not yet been stolen, hijacked, or otherwise misclaimed.

In the former case, it is up to the legacy registrant how they wish to handle the situation, through transfer, retaining the space, or returning it to the appropriate RIR.

In the latter case, ideally, the RIR in question reclaims the space. However, in reality, identifying and sufficiently documenting the situation in order to do a reclamation is very difficult.
> 3. Hijacked and now recovered Idle legacy Space. [There are some legacy spaces that can never be reclaimed by their initial allotees, probably because they are out of business, and there is no successor organization]
> 

Other than the fact that it got hijacked at some time, I don?t see much difference between this and the above mentioned cases under 2. I think it is largely a distinction without a difference.

Owen

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From noah at neo.co.tz  Thu Feb 11 12:07:16 2021
From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 15:07:16 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Notice to all the legacy netblocks holders
	in AfriNIC
In-Reply-To: <FD31E7E3-E395-470B-AC87-EC7E8E3FCB0D@afrinic.net>
References: <05751329-1002-4A8C-9CB0-318882CB984E@me.com>
 <49298.1604105023@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
 <CAEqgTWYqYddNikKzswv+RA18bBfe3or=aW0wv8Q_Z_yYPFbtrw@mail.gmail.com>
 <6DFCD6C0-6AAB-4FDB-AE33-4177BE618F33@delong.com>
 <CAEqgTWYRGohNy4byFNf+m-7ntNU-U60deOZPnWDCfvY8QS00jQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5D4D01C6-6733-4F27-8E47-5C9789859AA8@delong.com>
 <14b418b7-7a90-a0f4-a60e-63b35a5df2e0@geier.ne.tz>
 <FD31E7E3-E395-470B-AC87-EC7E8E3FCB0D@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <CAEqgTWZK-n0uqdbwdWTpASnu9uj89rzSv5ZHaSQOZuib129N=Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, 5 Feb 2021, 14:56 AFRINIC Communication, <comms at afrinic.net> wrote:

> Dear Frank,
>
> AFRINIC  has not approved any application for IP space for the purpose of
> leasing despite having received such requests.
>

Has AFRINIC endeavoured to check if IPv4 address space that it allocated to
its members for purposes of numbering infrastructure in AFRICA is not being
leased instead?

Noah
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From owen at delong.com  Thu Feb 11 12:10:59 2021
From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 04:10:59 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Blog: A Comprehensive audit of the AFRINIC
 WHOIS Database
In-Reply-To: <CAEqgTWaHcK_EdCiKVmt5jPgRjrVuqyN0jBfw6Z8kNBL=737duQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8E2D46C5-F034-4ACD-9C09-1BD1116E12CF@afrinic.net>
 <CAEqgTWah944VmGg7iRZ_9qvANgQTZt9QQsr33WjPCkcT+=-hqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <56FF34F4-04C8-48F3-BFC6-699669F55CD2@delong.com>
 <CAEqgTWaHcK_EdCiKVmt5jPgRjrVuqyN0jBfw6Z8kNBL=737duQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8E73ACE4-851E-40DF-9301-6870A83A20BD@delong.com>



> On Feb 11, 2021, at 03:49 , Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, 11 Feb 2021, 14:42 Owen DeLong, <owen at delong.com <mailto:owen at delong.com>> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Feb 9, 2021, at 14:11 , Noah <noah at neo.co.tz <mailto:noah at neo.co.tz>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi AFRINIC Team,
>> 
>> While reading the report, I noted that among the recommendations on how to make things better, was below.
>> 
>> The report recommends that the AFRINIC community critically assess how best the accuracy of the information pertaining to Legacy Resource Holders can be improved and considers whether unused legacy resources should be left idle while AFRINIC exhausts its remaining pool of IPv4 addresses.
>> How much unused legacy resources are we looking at?  
> 
> There is literally no way to know whether legacy resources are used or not.
> 
> Did you read the statement that formed part of the recommendation from AFRINIC or you are jumping to conclusions.

Yes, I read the statement.

> AFRINIC is asking us the community to consider whether unused legacy resources should be left idle while AFRINIC exhausts its remaining pool and my question to AFRINIC was simple?

Yes, I understand the request and I understand your question, but while the question is simple, the answer is not. At least not as I understood your original question.

> How much unused legacy resources are we looking at?

Are you now asking what is the total amount of space covered by legacy registrations in the AfriNIC database or are you asking how much legacy space is currently idle?

Addresses covered by legacy registrations will fall into one of the following utilization scenarios:

1.	Actively announced in publicly visible BGP by the registrant or a legitimate designee: obviously in-use.
2.	Announced in publicly visible BGP, but not by an unauthorized party: May or may not also be in legitimate use by the registrant.
		It may or may not be possible for a third party such as the RIR to identify such a situation.
		It may or may not be possible to determine the utilization status by the registrant.
3.	Not announced  in publicly visible whois, but still in legitimate use by the registrant:
		It may or may not be possible for a third party such as the RIR to identify such a situation.
		It may or may not be possible for the RIR to confirm utilization.
4.	Not announced in publicly visible whois and not actually i use by the registrant:
		It may be impossible for the RIR to distinguish this from condition 3 above.
5.	Registrant organization or individual no longer exists.
		It can be difficult to determine this with any degree of certainty. Especially with the various murky ways that
		legacy registrants have been known to create successor organizations or individuals through chains of custody
		not involving or updating records with RIRs over many years.

So? I am not jumping to conclusions, I am speaking from rather significant experience grappling with this problem in more than
one RIR over more than a decade.

Owen



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From rfg at tristatelogic.com  Thu Feb 11 13:18:06 2021
From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 05:18:06 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Blog: A Comprehensive audit of the AFRINIC
	WHOIS Database
In-Reply-To: <ef77e9a3-16f6-f7b8-5418-e11acbee9931@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48734.1613049486@segfault.tristatelogic.com>

In message <ef77e9a3-16f6-f7b8-5418-e11acbee9931 at gmail.com>, 
Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:

>There is an hierarchy regarding the legacy space:
>
>1. Legacy Space as a whole
>
>2. Idle Legacy Space [There are indeed legacy spaces in use, and not idle]
>
>3. Hijacked and now recovered Idle legacy Space. [There are some legacy 
>spaces that can never be reclaimed by their initial allotees, probably 
>because they are out of business, and there is no successor organization]


That last part is simply incorrect.  There is no such thing as an abandoned
legacy block in the AFRINIC region for which the legitimate owner, or
the legitimate successor in interest cannot be definitively determined.

I meant to mention this fact earlier, since this relates quite directly
to two glaringly erroneous statements that appear on page 4 of the
recently published AFRINIC WHOIS Audit Reoport Overview.  The two
provably erroneous statements contained on page 4 of that Overview are
as follows:

    2. Holders of the resources may also be defunct

    9. Some  holders  of  legacy  resources  appeared  to have undergone a
    change of name so that it  is  no  longer  practicable  to  trace  down
    the  concerned organisations; 

I wish that AFRINIC management and/or the AFRINC Board had had the good
sense to consult with either myself or with Jan Vermeulen before they
elected to incorporate the above erroneous assertions into the Overview
of the Audit Report.

In point of fact, my detailed and extensive investigations into the histories
of every single one of the stolen legacy blocks have persuaded me, based
on clear evidence in each case, that there are -zero- such blocks under
the authority of AFRINIC where the original registration organizations
are "defunct" in the sense of being both dissolved AND having no legitimate
and lawful successor in interest.

In a similar vein, it is just plain wrong to assert that it is "no longer
practicable to trace down the" legal successors in interest for *any*
AFRINIC legacy block registrant.  I can state this categorically and
without reservation because I myself spent countless hours researching
the history and the historical evolution of each AFRINIC legacy IPv4
address block, and the ownership thereof, for each legacy block that I
and Jan Vermeulen have called attention to.  (And in fact I have had
personal phone conversations with all or nearly all of the legitimate
current block owners for all these blocks.)

In literally 100% of these cases, it HAS been possible to deduce, based
on public historical evidence, the legitimate successor in interest for
each and every one of the original registrant organizations.  Furthermore,
I have maintained detailed records which document my historical research
into the chain of legal inheritance for each and every one of these blocks,
and I have always been ready, willing, and able to submit this abundant
documentation to AFRINIC managament, when and if it was ever requested.
It never has been.

In short, as we all now know, AFRINC failed, during a period extending
across many years, to fulfill its obligations to act as a responsible
shepard of the IP addresses that history placed into the organization's
care.  AFRINIC allowed quite a lot of these IP addresses to be stolen,
right from under the noses of the entire staff and the CEO at the time.

AFRINIC has now compounded that original error with another one, i.e. an
apparent utter failure and/or unwillingness to do the kind of open source
historical research that I have already done, and that would allow each
and every stolen legacy block to now be returned to its lawful and
rightful owners, each of which CAN BE DEFINITIVELY DETERMINED, contrary
to the false assertions made in the Audit Report Overview.

Personally, I find this level of laziness and this kind of shirking of
responsibility, on the part of AFRINIC, inexcusable.  The truth is out
there, if they would only expend the effort, as I have, to look for it.

This secondary failure of the organization to act lawfully, and as a
responsible shepard of the IP space, is all the more galling to me
personally because I have already done all of the research needed to
establish the current rightful ownership of each block beyond a reasonable
doubt, and all AFRINIC management had to do was to ask me for that research
and I would have sent it all to them, along with my copious notes.  I was
never asked.

Regards,
rfg



From rfg at tristatelogic.com  Thu Feb 11 13:31:00 2021
From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 05:31:00 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Blog: A Comprehensive audit of the AFRINIC
	WHOIS Database
In-Reply-To: <CAEqgTWYDPV1z6o4PY9AXJZM_beD2QSHKSLpCXALrzmcQNLea6w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48888.1613050260@segfault.tristatelogic.com>

In message <CAEqgTWYDPV1z6o4PY9AXJZM_beD2QSHKSLpCXALrzmcQNLea6w at mail.gmail.com>
Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:

>Yes we look at addressing all and discussions can be moved to the PDWG
>and/or DBWG where there are some discussions around whowas because it would
>help to know the history behind the space in case an entity is to show up
>claim ownership.

Forgive me for repeating myself, but this point is worth repeating:

There exists a legal successor in interest for EVERY registrant of EVERY
AFRINIC legacy block.

Name any arbitrary AFRINC legacy block and I can already tell you who the
legitimate sucessor in intetrest to the original registrant of that block
is.

Furthermore, I had already done all of the research needed to determine
the lawful successor in interest for each legacy registrant more than a
year ago already.

I have been waiting all this time for someone... anyone... to give a damn.


Regards,
rfg


P.S.  It would be the most egregious offense against justice if these
successors in interest, who do have rightful titles to these blocks,
were first ripped off my Mr. Cohen and friends, only to have THOSE
crooks exposed and THEN for them to be ripped off of their rightful
holdings a second time, this time by AFRINIC, and for no reason other
than that AFRINIC was just too lazy to look at the available public
records, and from those deduce the obvious chain of legal inheritance
applicable to each of the "abandoned" legacy blocks.



From noah at neo.co.tz  Thu Feb 11 16:54:35 2021
From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 19:54:35 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Blog: A Comprehensive audit of the AFRINIC
 WHOIS Database
In-Reply-To: <8E73ACE4-851E-40DF-9301-6870A83A20BD@delong.com>
References: <8E2D46C5-F034-4ACD-9C09-1BD1116E12CF@afrinic.net>
 <CAEqgTWah944VmGg7iRZ_9qvANgQTZt9QQsr33WjPCkcT+=-hqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <56FF34F4-04C8-48F3-BFC6-699669F55CD2@delong.com>
 <CAEqgTWaHcK_EdCiKVmt5jPgRjrVuqyN0jBfw6Z8kNBL=737duQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <8E73ACE4-851E-40DF-9301-6870A83A20BD@delong.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqgTWYOiJQJHDJ7cjGwGvhtfrKPBUjFMaXLkOzKHqa+JnG6hg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 11 Feb 2021, 15:11 Owen DeLong, <owen at delong.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Feb 11, 2021, at 03:49 , Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:
>
> How much unused legacy resources are we looking at?
>
>
>
I thought the above was a simple question but....

or are you asking how much legacy space is currently idle?
>

Yes and am asking AFRINIC specifically.

Cheers,
Noah

PS: @Owen....No need for your long lecturers because I dont need them.
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From paul.wollner at africaoncloud.net  Thu Feb 11 16:54:37 2021
From: paul.wollner at africaoncloud.net (Paul Wollner)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 18:54:37 +0200
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Notice to all the legacy netblocks
 holders&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; in AfriNIC
In-Reply-To: <CAEqgTWa9UEFzMXxUwW=GEh6Aaxtic1__LNfoip1wD15Ern6bgg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGDMR_dvNpdmucEEyMQOb1m5Mkq58LAS+MF44LHTGREA_Zrz+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <58415843-9BDC-4B63-A452-1500991D48F0@delong.com>
 <CAEqgTWa9UEFzMXxUwW=GEh6Aaxtic1__LNfoip1wD15Ern6bgg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <17792041768.ebc5b49c783724.3307919346516271580@africaoncloud.net>

Hello Everyone,



It is vital to note that the RSA is not the document to regulate the resource usage. If this is the case then, the entire bottom up policy will be obsolete! The RSA can easily be amended by AFRINIC which allows and permit an arbitrary form of changes being made neglecting the proper PDP flow. This form of suggestion and idea is dangerous as it allows AFRINIC absolute control.



We need to be mindful with what we say especially if we tend to argue for the sake of bashing certain individuals as this have the tendency to endanger the very basis that AFRINIC exists on, which is the bottom up policy.



The fact remains that the RSA is a mere contractual document which establishes the relationship between the Parties which are party to the document. In essence, any issues on ground of technicality is amendable and can be made right with proper resolution of the Parties and it is not the end of the world.



The above also encompass the mere technicalities including the change of nature. So long as the change of nature does not violate any written laws and are not used for crime, it should be permitted and AFRINIC should not be allowed to arbitrarily govern this, this will allow too much power upon them and, unfortunately, these recent weeks we can see clearly that at times the decisions that were made by AFRINIC are not the best.



Imagine changing the nature of one?s business and just by that your entire allocation is being revoked for that very reason. It doesn?t make any practical sense.



Regards

Paul









---- On Tue, 09 Feb 2021 23:21:39 +0200 Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote ----





On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 4:47 PM Owen DeLong <mailto:owen at delong.com> wrote:

Originally, the space was used for some rather specialized connectivity services. Due to changes in the market and the legal environment, those services became less lucrative and the organization pivoted.?



Hardly any organization that has been in this business for more than 10 years is using every address they have for the exact purpose for which it was approved.?



None the less, delegating addresses to customers for their legitimate use as unique internet addresses remains the primary purpose of any IR whether it be regional, national, or local.?



There exists no requirement in policy that such delegations involve connectivity services. In fact, no RIR provides connectivity services to any of the organizations it issues addresses to.?



Certainly, if such a requirement were intended, it could have been written into the policy.?



Owen





Hi Owen,



Firstly, thank you so much for making more explicit the evidence which has been discussed here by the community since 2014.



IPv4 Addresses must be used for the purpose they were requested for and leasing is not allowed.?



I also find your point about RIR not providing?connectivity services to organizations it issues addresses to, inappropriate because you know very well the mandate, role and the responsibilities of entities in the current Internet number registry hierarchy.



Noah?



_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list 
mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net 
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
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From noah at neo.co.tz  Thu Feb 11 17:09:15 2021
From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 20:09:15 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Notice to all the legacy netblocks
 holders&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; in AfriNIC
In-Reply-To: <17792041768.ebc5b49c783724.3307919346516271580@africaoncloud.net>
References: <CAGDMR_dvNpdmucEEyMQOb1m5Mkq58LAS+MF44LHTGREA_Zrz+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <58415843-9BDC-4B63-A452-1500991D48F0@delong.com>
 <CAEqgTWa9UEFzMXxUwW=GEh6Aaxtic1__LNfoip1wD15Ern6bgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <17792041768.ebc5b49c783724.3307919346516271580@africaoncloud.net>
Message-ID: <CAEqgTWbtUuieuAa7b_Vru9D2EDW1nety3F51WmyJJGjpbM5mxg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Paul,

Before we dwell into the RSA, please read the AFRINIC Bylaws and
specifically article 3.4 sections (i) and (iii).

The constitution is clear on what the objectives of AFRINIC are among
others. The RSA and ratified policies regulate the said management of
Internet number resources.

Noah

On Thu, 11 Feb 2021, 19:54 Paul Wollner, <paul.wollner at africaoncloud.net>
wrote:

> Hello Everyone,
>
> It is vital to note that the RSA is not the document to regulate the
> resource usage. If this is the case then, the entire bottom up policy will
> be obsolete! The RSA can easily be amended by AFRINIC which allows and
> permit an arbitrary form of changes being made neglecting the proper PDP
> flow. This form of suggestion and idea is dangerous as it allows AFRINIC
> absolute control.
>
> We need to be mindful with what we say especially if we tend to argue for
> the sake of bashing certain individuals as this have the tendency to
> endanger the very basis that AFRINIC exists on, which is the bottom up
> policy.
>
> The fact remains that the RSA is a mere contractual document which
> establishes the relationship between the Parties which are party to the
> document. In essence, any issues on ground of technicality is amendable and
> can be made right with proper resolution of the Parties and it is not the
> end of the world.
>
> The above also encompass the mere technicalities including the change of
> nature. So long as the change of nature does not violate any written laws
> and are not used for crime, it should be permitted and AFRINIC should not
> be allowed to arbitrarily govern this, this will allow too much power upon
> them and, unfortunately, these recent weeks we can see clearly that at
> times the decisions that were made by AFRINIC are not the best.
>
> Imagine changing the nature of one?s business and just by that your entire
> allocation is being revoked for that very reason. It doesn?t make any
> practical sense.
>
> Regards
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
> ---- On Tue, 09 Feb 2021 23:21:39 +0200 *Noah <noah at neo.co.tz
> <noah at neo.co.tz>>* wrote ----
>
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 4:47 PM Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>
> Originally, the space was used for some rather specialized connectivity
> services. Due to changes in the market and the legal environment, those
> services became less lucrative and the organization pivoted.
>
> Hardly any organization that has been in this business for more than 10
> years is using every address they have for the exact purpose for which it
> was approved.
>
> None the less, delegating addresses to customers for their legitimate use
> as unique internet addresses remains the primary purpose of any IR whether
> it be regional, national, or local.
>
> There exists no requirement in policy that such delegations involve
> connectivity services. In fact, no RIR provides connectivity services to
> any of the organizations it issues addresses to.
>
> Certainly, if such a requirement were intended, it could have been written
> into the policy.
>
> Owen
>
>
> Hi Owen,
>
>
> Firstly, thank you so much for making more explicit the evidence which has
> been discussed here by the community since 2014.
>
>
> IPv4 Addresses must be used for the purpose they were requested for and *leasing
> is not allowed*.
>
>
> I also find your point about RIR not providing connectivity services to
> organizations it issues addresses to, inappropriate because you know very
> well the mandate, role and the responsibilities of entities in the current
> Internet number registry hierarchy.
>
>
> Noah
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
>
>
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From paul.wollner at africaoncloud.net  Thu Feb 11 17:42:06 2021
From: paul.wollner at africaoncloud.net (Paul Wollner)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 19:42:06 +0200
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Notice to all the legacy netblocks
 holders&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; in AfriNIC
In-Reply-To: <CAEqgTWbtUuieuAa7b_Vru9D2EDW1nety3F51WmyJJGjpbM5mxg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGDMR_dvNpdmucEEyMQOb1m5Mkq58LAS+MF44LHTGREA_Zrz+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <58415843-9BDC-4B63-A452-1500991D48F0@delong.com>
 <CAEqgTWa9UEFzMXxUwW=GEh6Aaxtic1__LNfoip1wD15Ern6bgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <17792041768.ebc5b49c783724.3307919346516271580@africaoncloud.net>
 <CAEqgTWbtUuieuAa7b_Vru9D2EDW1nety3F51WmyJJGjpbM5mxg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <177922f8f80.d08cead1792352.1362931767896957215@africaoncloud.net>

Hi Noah



Thanks for your prompt reply. I will say the same goes for the bylaw, they are both lawyer-made documents which should not govern the usage of community resource. Or else lawyers can do whatever they want to, then what is the point of having a community and CPM?



Using bylaw to justify the action of using RSA to manage IP resource is not only invalid (as RSA is a document written by lawyers)but also very ridiculous. These documents shouldn?t contain anything about resource management in the very first place because this can be used as an evidence of AFRINIC not following up its own ?bottom up process? - which consequently violates its legitimacy of existence.



The only valid way of resource management is through PDP, by making changes to the CPM - both PDP and CPM are above any jurisdiction and any legal documents such as bylaw and RSA.



As for the bylaw and RSA, they should simply refer all resource management clauses to the CPM and delete all resource management clauses. The versions current are very poorly written and need to be redone.



Paul









---- On Thu, 11 Feb 2021 19:09:15 +0200 Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote ----


Hi Paul,



Before we dwell into the RSA, please read the AFRINIC Bylaws and specifically article 3.4 sections (i) and (iii).



The constitution is clear on what the objectives of AFRINIC are among others. The RSA and ratified policies regulate the said management of Internet number resources.



Noah

On Thu, 11 Feb 2021, 19:54 Paul Wollner, <mailto:paul.wollner at africaoncloud.net> wrote:

Hello Everyone,



It is vital to note that the RSA is not the document to regulate the resource usage. If this is the case then, the entire bottom up policy will be obsolete! The RSA can easily be amended by AFRINIC which allows and permit an arbitrary form of changes being made neglecting the proper PDP flow. This form of suggestion and idea is dangerous as it allows AFRINIC absolute control.



We need to be mindful with what we say especially if we tend to argue for the sake of bashing certain individuals as this have the tendency to endanger the very basis that AFRINIC exists on, which is the bottom up policy.



The fact remains that the RSA is a mere contractual document which establishes the relationship between the Parties which are party to the document. In essence, any issues on ground of technicality is amendable and can be made right with proper resolution of the Parties and it is not the end of the world.



The above also encompass the mere technicalities including the change of nature. So long as the change of nature does not violate any written laws and are not used for crime, it should be permitted and AFRINIC should not be allowed to arbitrarily govern this, this will allow too much power upon them and, unfortunately, these recent weeks we can see clearly that at times the decisions that were made by AFRINIC are not the best.



Imagine changing the nature of one?s business and just by that your entire allocation is being revoked for that very reason. It doesn?t make any practical sense.



Regards

Paul









---- On Tue, 09 Feb 2021 23:21:39 +0200 Noah <mailto:noah at neo.co.tz> wrote ----





On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 4:47 PM Owen DeLong <mailto:owen at delong.com> wrote:

Originally, the space was used for some rather specialized connectivity services. Due to changes in the market and the legal environment, those services became less lucrative and the organization pivoted.?



Hardly any organization that has been in this business for more than 10 years is using every address they have for the exact purpose for which it was approved.?



None the less, delegating addresses to customers for their legitimate use as unique internet addresses remains the primary purpose of any IR whether it be regional, national, or local.?



There exists no requirement in policy that such delegations involve connectivity services. In fact, no RIR provides connectivity services to any of the organizations it issues addresses to.?



Certainly, if such a requirement were intended, it could have been written into the policy.?



Owen





Hi Owen,



Firstly, thank you so much for making more explicit the evidence which has been discussed here by the community since 2014.



IPv4 Addresses must be used for the purpose they were requested for and leasing is not allowed.?



I also find your point about RIR not providing?connectivity services to organizations it issues addresses to, inappropriate because you know very well the mandate, role and the responsibilities of entities in the current Internet number registry hierarchy.



Noah?



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From jordi.palet at consulintel.es  Thu Feb 11 18:17:56 2021
From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 19:17:56 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Notice to all the legacy netblocks
 holders&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; in AfriNIC
In-Reply-To: <177922f8f80.d08cead1792352.1362931767896957215@africaoncloud.net>
References: <CAGDMR_dvNpdmucEEyMQOb1m5Mkq58LAS+MF44LHTGREA_Zrz+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <58415843-9BDC-4B63-A452-1500991D48F0@delong.com>
 <CAEqgTWa9UEFzMXxUwW=GEh6Aaxtic1__LNfoip1wD15Ern6bgg@mail.gmail.com>
 <17792041768.ebc5b49c783724.3307919346516271580@africaoncloud.net>
 <CAEqgTWbtUuieuAa7b_Vru9D2EDW1nety3F51WmyJJGjpbM5mxg@mail.gmail.com>
 <177922f8f80.d08cead1792352.1362931767896957215@africaoncloud.net>
Message-ID: <B2AA2AFD-BC5A-4B69-AB56-3590A834F615@consulintel.es>

In my opinion, the right way to have this is:

 
Bylaws, almost as they are now. They refer already to the resources, PDP and the RSA.
RSA. Handles well the relation of any member with AFRINIC. However, this is only covering ?full members? in the sense that they are getting any resources from AFRINIC *and* then they get the full set of services. For example, it handles in a very generic way the recovery of resources from members that violate PDP, stop paying fees, etc.
PDP (CPM). It tells AFRINIC what are the policies that they should apply to provide resources and services and under what conditions the services and resources are provided. The PDP is the most important document, the other two are just ?frameworks?.
 

Note that I?m not saying that any of those documents is 100% correct, they all have mistakes, typos, things to improve, etc.

 

What we are missing:
A kind of RSA for legacy holders. If they decide to pay for the full set of services, they will sign the RSA. Note that this is not changing what we have already today. A legacy holder that got originally only IPv4 resources, and now as for an ASN or IPv6, they will need to sign the RSA already. However, a legacy holder that only has the original set of IPv4 resources allocated pre-RIR, still need some of the registration services, so we need a ?slightly reduced fee? and a specific service agreement. May be ?LSA? Legacy Services Agreement.
Maybe, to be able to do a) ?in ?better? conditions, the CPM should have a new section stating what are the policies that apply to the Legacy holders and what services they get. I think it is a simple section stating what sections of the existing CPM apply and what other not. I?m not saying it is easy to agree on this ? this is PDP work. Note that a) could be written in such way that even if this new CPM section is still not available, once available, it will be enforceable. I know is difficult, but because they don?t get the full set of services, if we play well, this, together with the need for IPv6, ASN, etc., could push the legacy to join the regular membership, accept all the policies and sign the RSA instead of the LSA.
 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 11/2/21 18:46, "Paul Wollner" <paul.wollner at africaoncloud.net> escribi?:

 

Hi Noah

 

Thanks for your prompt reply. I will say the same goes for the bylaw, they are both lawyer-made documents which should not govern the usage of community resource. Or else lawyers can do whatever they want to, then what is the point of having a community and CPM?

 

Using bylaw to justify the action of using RSA to manage IP resource is not only invalid (as RSA is a document written by lawyers)but also very ridiculous. These documents shouldn?t contain anything about resource management in the very first place because this can be used as an evidence of AFRINIC not following up its own ?bottom up process? - which consequently violates its legitimacy of existence.

 

The only valid way of resource management is through PDP, by making changes to the CPM - both PDP and CPM are above any jurisdiction and any legal documents such as bylaw and RSA.

 

As for the bylaw and RSA, they should simply refer all resource management clauses to the CPM and delete all resource management clauses. The versions current are very poorly written and need to be redone.

 

Paul

 

 

 

 

 

---- On Thu, 11 Feb 2021 19:09:15 +0200 Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote ----

 

Hi Paul,

 

Before we dwell into the RSA, please read the AFRINIC Bylaws and specifically article 3.4 sections (i) and (iii).

 

The constitution is clear on what the objectives of AFRINIC are among others. The RSA and ratified policies regulate the said management of Internet number resources.

 

Noah

On Thu, 11 Feb 2021, 19:54 Paul Wollner, <paul.wollner at africaoncloud.net> wrote:

Hello Everyone,

 

It is vital to note that the RSA is not the document to regulate the resource usage. If this is the case then, the entire bottom up policy will be obsolete! The RSA can easily be amended by AFRINIC which allows and permit an arbitrary form of changes being made neglecting the proper PDP flow. This form of suggestion and idea is dangerous as it allows AFRINIC absolute control.

 

We need to be mindful with what we say especially if we tend to argue for the sake of bashing certain individuals as this have the tendency to endanger the very basis that AFRINIC exists on, which is the bottom up policy.

 

The fact remains that the RSA is a mere contractual document which establishes the relationship between the Parties which are party to the document. In essence, any issues on ground of technicality is amendable and can be made right with proper resolution of the Parties and it is not the end of the world.

 

The above also encompass the mere technicalities including the change of nature. So long as the change of nature does not violate any written laws and are not used for crime, it should be permitted and AFRINIC should not be allowed to arbitrarily govern this, this will allow too much power upon them and, unfortunately, these recent weeks we can see clearly that at times the decisions that were made by AFRINIC are not the best.

 

Imagine changing the nature of one?s business and just by that your entire allocation is being revoked for that very reason. It doesn?t make any practical sense.

 

Regards

Paul

 

 

 

 

 

---- On Tue, 09 Feb 2021 23:21:39 +0200 Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote ----

 

 

 

On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 4:47 PM Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:

Originally, the space was used for some rather specialized connectivity services. Due to changes in the market and the legal environment, those services became less lucrative and the organization pivoted. 

 

Hardly any organization that has been in this business for more than 10 years is using every address they have for the exact purpose for which it was approved. 

 

None the less, delegating addresses to customers for their legitimate use as unique internet addresses remains the primary purpose of any IR whether it be regional, national, or local. 

 

There exists no requirement in policy that such delegations involve connectivity services. In fact, no RIR provides connectivity services to any of the organizations it issues addresses to. 

 

Certainly, if such a requirement were intended, it could have been written into the policy. 

 

Owen

 

Hi Owen,




Firstly, thank you so much for making more explicit the evidence which has been discussed here by the community since 2014.




IPv4 Addresses must be used for the purpose they were requested for and leasing is not allowed. 




I also find your point about RIR not providing connectivity services to organizations it issues addresses to, inappropriate because you know very well the mandate, role and the responsibilities of entities in the current Internet number registry hierarchy.



Noah 

_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list 
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net 
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss 

 

 

 


_______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss 



**********************************************
IPv4 is over
Are you ready for the new Internet ?
http://www.theipv6company.com
The IPv6 Company

This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.

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From wijdan.goubi at gmail.com  Thu Feb 11 18:51:24 2021
From: wijdan.goubi at gmail.com (Wijdane Goubi)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 19:51:24 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Notice to all the legacy netblocks
 holders&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; in AfriNIC
Message-ID: <CAMcGv++cY2VgYSWCJxid99B2FZFDyG8xWBeghtsU6KFWqZaxMg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear community,

Technically speaking, if a change of the nature is not allowed (as claimed
by some) this doesn?t make any technical sense at all as there are
consensus among several RIRs to allow inter RIR transfer and also allows
intra RIR transfers.

The logic adopted that the change of nature is not permitted doesn?t sit
well with the established sections of the policies adopted and used. In
fact, the logic will bar and limit the ability for an organization to grow
and expend its services.

This imposition will also burden the member to go through unnecessary
bureaucratic demands and expectations whereas the matter could easily be
resolved. The policy and understanding of business nature needs to be as
dynamic as the internet is!

The internet grows and evolves from one form to another, so should the
policy.
In fact, RIR never bothers or care with how the space is being used for.

A post from years ago (
https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2017/007222.html ), from both ARIN
and RIPE explained that once the space is issued, their only concern is to
ensure accurate registration.

The video and the section where both ARIN and RIPE NCC are speaking can be
found on the following link:
https://youtu.be/XBv44KAgFVQlist=PLLJRUWAm1GCZAGzqiCzX2CRU7oqLDC9e5

At or around 08:27:50, Andrea Cima from RIPE NCC explains that their
reviews are called ?ARC?, and it is to keep in touch and keep the data up
to data, registry data, that is the contact details and so on.
Investigation, that is the part of the ?fraud?.

Whereas, at or around 08:29:50, Leslie from ARIN explains the scope of
their policy, they only audit in fraud cases and only deregister in case of
fraud.

Neither the RIPE NCC or ARIN does a re-evaluation of the resources and
questions on how the LIRs are currently using their resources.

There is a global consensus on how spaces are being used currently?as long
as the allocation process was justified and registration is actual, RIR
does not care about its current usage.
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From jordi.palet at consulintel.es  Thu Feb 11 19:31:48 2021
From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 20:31:48 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Notice to all the legacy netblocks
 holders&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; in AfriNIC
In-Reply-To: <CAMcGv++cY2VgYSWCJxid99B2FZFDyG8xWBeghtsU6KFWqZaxMg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMcGv++cY2VgYSWCJxid99B2FZFDyG8xWBeghtsU6KFWqZaxMg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5AB5D14A-77F1-4AE5-B0F6-CE7C1AC714DC@consulintel.es>

Hi Widjane,

 

I agree with you in some of the points, but not in all them.

 
Policies among the RIRs aren?t exactly the same. They tend to converge with the time, but not always are 100% the same.
In fact, in some RIRs, right now, if you asked for resources and provided documents about what will be the usage and you change usage, you?re under lack of compliance. Note that we aren?t talking about business grow. For example, a very simple on, let?s suppose you got resources for an organization (assigned resources) and now you want to provide Internet services to others, that will be against policies, in all the RIRs. Another example, if you got resources in some RIRs you can?t use them to provide services outside of that region (at all, example AFRINIC, or depending on the % example LACNIC, it depends on the RIR).
I can agree with your that this is not right in many situations and policy should allow it. However, there are technical issues about allowing that freely, not just policy issues (and sometimes the policy issues, in fact, happen because technical issues).
AFRINIC is the only RIR, at the time being, that has not adopted (ratified and even less implemented) a policy proposal for Inter-RIR transfers. However, even in most of the RIRs, the allowed transfers are only for IPv4.
I will love that we could make policy changes in a more dynamic way, but specially in AFRINIC, it is being too slow.
 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 11/2/21 20:01, "Wijdane Goubi" <wijdan.goubi at gmail.com> escribi?:

 

Dear community,

Technically speaking, if a change of the nature is not allowed (as claimed by some) this doesn?t make any technical sense at all as there are consensus among several RIRs to allow inter RIR transfer and also allows intra RIR transfers. 

The logic adopted that the change of nature is not permitted doesn?t sit well with the established sections of the policies adopted and used. In fact, the logic will bar and limit the ability for an organization to grow and expend its services. 

This imposition will also burden the member to go through unnecessary bureaucratic demands and expectations whereas the matter could easily be resolved. The policy and understanding of business nature needs to be as dynamic as the internet is!

The internet grows and evolves from one form to another, so should the policy. 
In fact, RIR never bothers or care with how the space is being used for.

A post from years ago (https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2017/007222.html ), from both ARIN and RIPE explained that once the space is issued, their only concern is to ensure accurate registration.

The video and the section where both ARIN and RIPE NCC are speaking can be found on the following link: https://youtu.be/XBv44KAgFVQlist=PLLJRUWAm1GCZAGzqiCzX2CRU7oqLDC9e5 

At or around 08:27:50, Andrea Cima from RIPE NCC explains that their reviews are called ?ARC?, and it is to keep in touch and keep the data up to data, registry data, that is the contact details and so on. Investigation, that is the part of the ?fraud?.

Whereas, at or around 08:29:50, Leslie from ARIN explains the scope of their policy, they only audit in fraud cases and only deregister in case of fraud.

Neither the RIPE NCC or ARIN does a re-evaluation of the resources and questions on how the LIRs are currently using their resources.

There is a global consensus on how spaces are being used currently?as long as the allocation process was justified and registration is actual, RIR does not care about its current usage.

_______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss 



**********************************************
IPv4 is over
Are you ready for the new Internet ?
http://www.theipv6company.com
The IPv6 Company

This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.

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From noah at neo.co.tz  Thu Feb 11 19:50:41 2021
From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 22:50:41 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Notice to all the legacy netblocks
 holders&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; in AfriNIC
In-Reply-To: <CAMcGv++cY2VgYSWCJxid99B2FZFDyG8xWBeghtsU6KFWqZaxMg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMcGv++cY2VgYSWCJxid99B2FZFDyG8xWBeghtsU6KFWqZaxMg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqgTWY1wJMuJKGv1Bhi+smm_GxrEJq8jd+FsV97K_s2s3_nUA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Wijdane,

To be honest, I could careless about the global consensus of how IPv4
address space is used and what Andrea Cima said about RIPE because AFRINIC
is not RIPE.  IANA allocated to AFRINIC and AFRINIC allocated to LIR's
within its region based on need with a justied purpose.

AFRINIC has its own rules and if address space was obtained to number
infrastructure in AFRICA but its instead being traded aka leased for profit
outside AFRICA, that is a different case altogether as it tantamount to
fraud and violations of terms of the RSA.

It's also worth noting that todate, AFRINIC does not have an Inter-RIR
transfer policy because the community in this part of the world has yet to
agree on one.

*./noah*
neo - network engineering and operations


On Thu, Feb 11, 2021 at 10:02 PM Wijdane Goubi <wijdan.goubi at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear community,
>
> Technically speaking, if a change of the nature is not allowed (as claimed
> by some) this doesn?t make any technical sense at all as there are
> consensus among several RIRs to allow inter RIR transfer and also allows
> intra RIR transfers.
>
> The logic adopted that the change of nature is not permitted doesn?t sit
> well with the established sections of the policies adopted and used. In
> fact, the logic will bar and limit the ability for an organization to grow
> and expend its services.
>
> This imposition will also burden the member to go through unnecessary
> bureaucratic demands and expectations whereas the matter could easily be
> resolved. The policy and understanding of business nature needs to be as
> dynamic as the internet is!
>
> The internet grows and evolves from one form to another, so should the
> policy.
> In fact, RIR never bothers or care with how the space is being used for.
>
> A post from years ago (
> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2017/007222.html ), from both
> ARIN and RIPE explained that once the space is issued, their only concern
> is to ensure accurate registration.
>
> The video and the section where both ARIN and RIPE NCC are speaking can be
> found on the following link:
> https://youtu.be/XBv44KAgFVQlist=PLLJRUWAm1GCZAGzqiCzX2CRU7oqLDC9e5
>
> At or around 08:27:50, Andrea Cima from RIPE NCC explains that their
> reviews are called ?ARC?, and it is to keep in touch and keep the data up
> to data, registry data, that is the contact details and so on.
> Investigation, that is the part of the ?fraud?.
>
> Whereas, at or around 08:29:50, Leslie from ARIN explains the scope of
> their policy, they only audit in fraud cases and only deregister in case of
> fraud.
>
> Neither the RIPE NCC or ARIN does a re-evaluation of the resources and
> questions on how the LIRs are currently using their resources.
>
> There is a global consensus on how spaces are being used currently?as long
> as the allocation process was justified and registration is actual, RIR
> does not care about its current usage.
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
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From rfg at tristatelogic.com  Fri Feb 12 02:40:58 2021
From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 18:40:58 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Notice to all the legacy netblocks
	holders&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; in AfriNIC
In-Reply-To: <CAMcGv++cY2VgYSWCJxid99B2FZFDyG8xWBeghtsU6KFWqZaxMg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <57561.1613097658@segfault.tristatelogic.com>

In message <CAMcGv++cY2VgYSWCJxid99B2FZFDyG8xWBeghtsU6KFWqZaxMg at mail.gmail.com>, 
Wijdane Goubi <wijdan.goubi at gmail.com> wrote:

>Whereas, at or around 08:29:50, Leslie from ARIN explains the scope of
>their policy, they only audit in fraud cases and only deregister in case of
>fraud.

And typically, not even then!!

References:

	https://seclists.org/nanog/2019/Aug/461
	https://seclists.org/nanog/2020/Jan/611

(I could say a LOT more things about these two cases, but I will let
the facts and my prior research on these cases speak for themselves.
Then you can all judge for yourselves whether or not you think that
ARIN has been a good steward of the IP number resources that have been
placed into its care.)


Regards,
rfg




From sfolayan at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 13:42:27 2021
From: sfolayan at gmail.com (Sunday Folayan)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 14:42:27 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Blog: A Comprehensive audit of the AFRINIC
 WHOIS Database
In-Reply-To: <48734.1613049486@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
References: <48734.1613049486@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
Message-ID: <9dd03dbe-f868-676f-6367-e11dc315864c@gmail.com>

Ron,

I will not want your good work eroded with your persistent use of the 
tar brush.

Please see some comments herein:


On 2/11/21 2:18 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:

> In message <ef77e9a3-16f6-f7b8-5418-e11acbee9931 at gmail.com>,
> Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> There is an hierarchy regarding the legacy space:
>>
>> 1. Legacy Space as a whole
>>
>> 2. Idle Legacy Space [There are indeed legacy spaces in use, and not idle]
>>
>> 3. Hijacked and now recovered Idle legacy Space. [There are some legacy
>> spaces that can never be reclaimed by their initial allotees, probably
>> because they are out of business, and there is no successor organization]
>
> That last part is simply incorrect.  There is no such thing as an abandoned
> legacy block in the AFRINIC region for which the legitimate owner, or
> the legitimate successor in interest cannot be definitively determined.


That there is no abandoned legacy block in the AfriNIC region, does not 
mean that the statement is not correct.? Valid cases may just be 0, that 
is still Ok.


> I meant to mention this fact earlier, since this relates quite directly
> to two glaringly erroneous statements that appear on page 4 of the
> recently published AFRINIC WHOIS Audit Reoport Overview.  The two
> provably erroneous statements contained on page 4 of that Overview are
> as follows:
>
>      2. Holders of the resources may also be defunct
>
>      9. Some  holders  of  legacy  resources  appeared  to have undergone a
>      change of name so that it  is  no  longer  practicable  to  trace  down
>      the  concerned organisations;
>
> I wish that AFRINIC management and/or the AFRINC Board had had the good
> sense to consult with either myself or with Jan Vermeulen before they
> elected to incorporate the above erroneous assertions into the Overview
> of the Audit Report.


Why should AFRINIC consult with you, beyond the whistles you have 
already blown and what is published?

Doesn't that suggest that you want to trade some of these information? I 
hope not!

Why should you be trusted, above any other person including those who 
may make a claim to *any* of the blocks?


> In point of fact, my detailed and extensive investigations into the histories
> of every single one of the stolen legacy blocks have persuaded me, based
> on clear evidence in each case, that there are -zero- such blocks under
> the authority of AFRINIC where the original registration organizations
> are "defunct" in the sense of being both dissolved AND having no legitimate
> and lawful successor in interest.


... and those successors are still into operating real Networks, and not 
pivoted into journalism or Tourism?

Their words, your words, anybody's words. What do we believe?


> In a similar vein, it is just plain wrong to assert that it is "no longer
> practicable to trace down the" legal successors in interest for *any*
> AFRINIC legacy block registrant.  I can state this categorically and
> without reservation because I myself spent countless hours researching
> the history and the historical evolution of each AFRINIC legacy IPv4
> address block, and the ownership thereof, for each legacy block that I
> and Jan Vermeulen have called attention to.  (And in fact I have had
> personal phone conversations with all or nearly all of the legitimate
> current block owners for all these blocks.)


Should they not be the ones coming forward and laying as much claims as 
they can, including having their lawyers chase the squatters and the 
thieves all round the 4 corners of the globe?


> In literally 100% of these cases, it HAS been possible to deduce, based
> on public historical evidence, the legitimate successor in interest for
> each and every one of the original registrant organizations.  Furthermore,
> I have maintained detailed records which document my historical research
> into the chain of legal inheritance for each and every one of these blocks,
> and I have always been ready, willing, and able to submit this abundant
> documentation to AFRINIC managament, when and if it was ever requested.
> It never has been.


I just do not get the reason why AFRINIC should be after the rightful 
owners of legacy blocks that are not within its administrative and or 
service oversight.

I also do not see why AFRINIC must come to ask you, before you make such 
information available, granted that your pursuit is altruistic in the 
first instance.

What am I missing here?


> In short, as we all now know, AFRINC failed, during a period extending
> across many years, to fulfill its obligations to act as a responsible
> shepard of the IP addresses that history placed into the organization's
> care.  AFRINIC allowed quite a lot of these IP addresses to be stolen,
> right from under the noses of the entire staff and the CEO at the time.
>
> AFRINIC has now compounded that original error with another one, i.e. an
> apparent utter failure and/or unwillingness to do the kind of open source
> historical research that I have already done, and that would allow each
> and every stolen legacy block to now be returned to its lawful and
> rightful owners, each of which CAN BE DEFINITIVELY DETERMINED, contrary
> to the false assertions made in the Audit Report Overview.


Wow!


> Personally, I find this level of laziness and this kind of shirking of
> responsibility, on the part of AFRINIC, inexcusable.  The truth is out
> there, if they would only expend the effort, as I have, to look for it.
>
> This secondary failure of the organization to act lawfully, and as a
> responsible shepard of the IP space, is all the more galling to me
> personally because I have already done all of the research needed to
> establish the current rightful ownership of each block beyond a reasonable
> doubt, and all AFRINIC management had to do was to ask me for that research
> and I would have sent it all to them, along with my copious notes.  I was
> never asked.


Kindly publish a minority report.

It will:

1. add to the body of facts available,

2. obviously help outline the points where AFRINIC failed.

3. Clarify your motives to a number of us.


>
> Regards,
> rfg


Sunday.




From wijdan.goubi at gmail.com  Fri Feb 12 17:06:34 2021
From: wijdan.goubi at gmail.com (Wijdane Goubi)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 18:06:34 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Notice to all the legacy netblocks
 holders&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; in AfriNIC
In-Reply-To: <5AB5D14A-77F1-4AE5-B0F6-CE7C1AC714DC@consulintel.es>
References: <CAMcGv++cY2VgYSWCJxid99B2FZFDyG8xWBeghtsU6KFWqZaxMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5AB5D14A-77F1-4AE5-B0F6-CE7C1AC714DC@consulintel.es>
Message-ID: <CAMcGv++Q_9uYwNm3GNpUMtRw_BZf6cnz6AWXms7AZdmFq8a2qQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Jordi,

So the thing is that, since all of the 5 RIRs have transfer policies
(regardless whether they are intraRIR or interRIR), and since no one has
ever applied space for transfer in the history of RIR, then by the very
definition of the transfer policy, the change of purpose is allowed. If in
some region there is some old and obsolete policy text that forbids change
of purpose for usage, then those should be considered invalid because they
are directly contradicting the newer policy text (transfer policy). Also,
while a proper policy update is preferred in those situations, it is not
necessary, since the later policy text always wins over the old one, as the
newer one represents better the current community needs and wishes.

Besides, change of purpose for usage is allowed in the current AFRINIC
policy text. There is not even an obsolete old policy text in AFRINIC?s CPM
that prevents LIR making their assignment for a different purpose, it only
mentions the sub-allocation, which is a totally different thing. So
basically, change of purpose for usage is always allowed in the AFRINIC
region.

In fact, the design of IP address policy did have the change of purpose in
mind, that is the very reason why we have two distinct definitions of
"allocation" and "assignment", LIR gets allocation, then makes assignment
for each specific user case, while the allocation is for general purpose,
and you need to make the assignment inside the allocation for each user
case to the end users. The Allocation stays with LIR, while the Assignment
comes and goes as the user case existed or not. If change of purpose is not
allowed, then there is absolutely no reason to distinguish them. AFRINIC
should make assignment to each LIR then evaluate every time the user case
changes which is quite impossible and impractical. As an example, if I made
/23 for one web hosting customer and then the customer leaves, I will need
to go through an entire application process again just because the same
server goes to a VPN customer, and this doesn?t happen anywhere in the
world, and currently not with AFRINIC. *Allowing LIR to freely manage its
space usage within the allocation is the very core design of IP address
policy.*

Moreover, this is the exact reason why RSA is so badly written and
shouldn't contain any resource management clause. The lawyers do not
understand the very concept of Allocation and Assignment, let alone
distinguishing between them. Therefore, allowing lawyers texts to manage
community resources is not only illegitimate, but also lacks of needed
technical understanding of addressing to properly write it, that is why we
now have an RSA which is full of invalid IP management clauses and
contradiction to the policy itself, which needs to be fixed at some point
of time. Not to mention that allowing lawyers to manage the resources
defies the very foundation of the bottom up process.



Le jeu. 11 f?vr. 2021 ? 20:34, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss <
community-discuss at afrinic.net> a ?crit :

> Hi Widjane,
>
>
>
> I agree with you in some of the points, but not in all them.
>
>
>
>    1. Policies among the RIRs aren?t exactly the same. They tend to
>    converge with the time, but not always are 100% the same.
>    2. In fact, in some RIRs, right now, if you asked for resources and
>    provided documents about what will be the usage and you change usage,
>    you?re under lack of compliance. Note that we aren?t talking about business
>    grow. For example, a very simple on, let?s suppose you got resources for an
>    organization (assigned resources) and now you want to provide Internet
>    services to others, that will be against policies, in all the RIRs. Another
>    example, if you got resources in some RIRs you can?t use them to provide
>    services outside of that region (at all, example AFRINIC, or depending on
>    the % example LACNIC, it depends on the RIR).
>    3. I can agree with your that this is not right in many situations and
>    policy should allow it. However, there are technical issues about allowing
>    that freely, not just policy issues (and sometimes the policy issues, in
>    fact, happen because technical issues).
>    4. AFRINIC is the only RIR, at the time being, that has not adopted
>    (ratified and even less implemented) a policy proposal for Inter-RIR
>    transfers. However, even in most of the RIRs, the allowed transfers are
>    only for IPv4.
>    5. I will love that we could make policy changes in a more dynamic
>    way, but specially in AFRINIC, it is being too slow.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jordi
>
> @jordipalet
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> El 11/2/21 20:01, "Wijdane Goubi" <wijdan.goubi at gmail.com> escribi?:
>
>
>
> Dear community,
>
> Technically speaking, if a change of the nature is not allowed (as claimed
> by some) this doesn?t make any technical sense at all as there are
> consensus among several RIRs to allow inter RIR transfer and also allows
> intra RIR transfers.
>
> The logic adopted that the change of nature is not permitted doesn?t sit
> well with the established sections of the policies adopted and used. In
> fact, the logic will bar and limit the ability for an organization to grow
> and expend its services.
>
> This imposition will also burden the member to go through unnecessary
> bureaucratic demands and expectations whereas the matter could easily be
> resolved. The policy and understanding of business nature needs to be as
> dynamic as the internet is!
>
> The internet grows and evolves from one form to another, so should the
> policy.
> In fact, RIR never bothers or care with how the space is being used for.
>
> A post from years ago (
> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2017/007222.html ), from both
> ARIN and RIPE explained that once the space is issued, their only concern
> is to ensure accurate registration.
>
> The video and the section where both ARIN and RIPE NCC are speaking can be
> found on the following link:
> https://youtu.be/XBv44KAgFVQlist=PLLJRUWAm1GCZAGzqiCzX2CRU7oqLDC9e5
>
> At or around 08:27:50, Andrea Cima from RIPE NCC explains that their
> reviews are called ?ARC?, and it is to keep in touch and keep the data up
> to data, registry data, that is the contact details and so on.
> Investigation, that is the part of the ?fraud?.
>
> Whereas, at or around 08:29:50, Leslie from ARIN explains the scope of
> their policy, they only audit in fraud cases and only deregister in case of
> fraud.
>
> Neither the RIPE NCC or ARIN does a re-evaluation of the resources and
> questions on how the LIRs are currently using their resources.
>
> There is a global consensus on how spaces are being used currently?as long
> as the allocation process was justified and registration is actual, RIR
> does not care about its current usage.
>
> _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing
> list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
> **********************************************
> IPv4 is over
> Are you ready for the new Internet ?
> http://www.theipv6company.com
> The IPv6 Company
>
> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or
> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of
> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized
> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly
> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the
> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or
> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including
> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal
> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this
> communication and delete it.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
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From jordi.palet at consulintel.es  Fri Feb 12 18:47:14 2021
From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 19:47:14 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Notice to all the legacy netblocks
 holders&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; in AfriNIC
In-Reply-To: <CAMcGv++Q_9uYwNm3GNpUMtRw_BZf6cnz6AWXms7AZdmFq8a2qQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMcGv++cY2VgYSWCJxid99B2FZFDyG8xWBeghtsU6KFWqZaxMg@mail.gmail.com>
 <5AB5D14A-77F1-4AE5-B0F6-CE7C1AC714DC@consulintel.es>
 <CAMcGv++Q_9uYwNm3GNpUMtRw_BZf6cnz6AWXms7AZdmFq8a2qQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E96CC582-9721-4C5C-8215-1013F3FF9477@consulintel.es>

Hi Widjane,

 

Responding below in-line ?

 

 

 

El 12/2/21 18:06, "Wijdane Goubi" <wijdan.goubi at gmail.com> escribi?:

 

Hello Jordi,
 
So the thing is that, since all of the 5 RIRs have transfer policies (regardless whether they are intraRIR or interRIR), and since no one has ever applied space 

 

[Jordi] This is not correct. In the PDWG I?ve presented several times stats about the transfers that have been happening since a few years.

 

for transfer in the history of RIR, then by the very definition of the transfer policy, the change of purpose is allowed. If in some region there is some old and 

 

[Jordi] This is an agreement of the community (in some RIR communities): Policies don?t allow you to change the ?usage? (for example you want to use more of the 50% of the space out of the region), however, instead of returning it, because others need it (at least when speaking about IPv4), we allow it to be transferred HOWEVER the new resource-holder MUST pre-qualify to receive the space following the existing policies (in the destination RIR). I will agree that in a ideal world, instead of transfers, we will just be honest, return the space that we no longer use to the RIR, so it can be allocated to others that demonstrate the justified-need. However, that will not solve the unbalance between different regions, and the transfers resolve that. Some regions have more legacy or more IPv6 deployment, which means that they are happy to (get some money) and transfer it to other regions.

 

obsolete policy text that forbids change of purpose for usage, then those should be considered invalid because they are directly contradicting the newer 

 

[Jordi] I disagree here. It is not about obsolete policies, it is about different cultural and business visions, tied to different timings. In the end, my experience shows that most of the RIR policies tend to converge, may be not with a 100% same wording or intent, but very close. Again, I will probably prefer that those usage changes are less restrictive, but it is very difficult to make a policy that has the right balance for all the community participants, especially in that specific topic and even more in regions that have a smaller Internet footprint vs others more advanced: it is completely understandable, because you may think that the resources that you will need in that region may go away (even if that?s not the case as IPv6 deployment in other regions is progressing faster).

 

policy text (transfer policy). Also, while a proper policy update is preferred in those situations, it is not necessary, since the later policy text always wins over the old one, as the newer one represents better the current community needs and wishes.

 

[Jordi] No, they are different policies: we still need a ?justified need policy? and a transfer policy. Otherwise, you could transfer the space to someone that only want it to stockpile and do business, and this is not the purpose, because that will be really bad for the global Internet. So justified need policies try to avoid that as much as possible.


 
Besides, change of purpose for usage is allowed in the current AFRINIC policy text. There is not even an obsolete old policy text in AFRINIC?s CPM that prevents LIR making their assignment for a different purpose, it only mentions the sub-allocation, which is a totally different thing. So basically, change of purpose for usage is always allowed in the AFRINIC region.

 

[Jordi] I read the CPM differently. In the case of IPv4, for example, section 5.4.6.2 states that the AFRINIC resources are for this service region and only can be? used outside for connectivity back to the region. Before the existence of that policy, it could be unclear if you can use the resources outside, but not since it was ratified.


 
In fact, the design of IP address policy did have the change of purpose in mind, that is the very reason why we have two distinct definitions of  "allocation" and "assignment", LIR gets allocation, then makes assignment for each specific user case, while the allocation is for general purpose, and you need to make the assignment inside the allocation for each user case to the end users. The Allocation stays with LIR, while the Assignment comes and goes as the user case existed or not. If change of purpose is not allowed, then there is absolutely no reason to distinguish them. AFRINIC should make assignment to each LIR then evaluate every time the user case changes which is quite impossible and impractical. As an example, if I made /23 for one web hosting customer and then the customer leaves, I will need to go through an entire application process again just because the same server goes to a VPN customer, and this doesn?t happen anywhere in the world, and currently not with AFRINIC. Allowing LIR to freely manage its space usage within the allocation is the very core design of IP address policy.

 

[Jordi] Nothing to object here, but still if you have documented (justified) in the original allocation request to AFRINIC a specific usage, for supporting, let?s say 1 million customers, and now you only have 100.000 customers, the justification becomes invalid. That?s why transfers come in place. Of course, you still can instead of using the transfer, return the space to AFRINIC, but you can?t just ?stockpile? the addresses, or use them out of the region. Remember also that the bylaws allow the membership (section 6.1) to those based in the region and providing services in the region. So if you stop providing services or go away from the region, the membership can only be sustained if it is approved by the board or the membership. Finally, the RSA section 4, state that the conditions of the service are ?solely for the purpose for which it was requested? so depending on *what* you requested, you may be acting against the original purpose if you change your business. I agree that in some sense this should be only part of the CPM, but the current situation is that the RSA also have that normative text.


 
Moreover, this is the exact reason why RSA is so badly written and shouldn't contain any resource management clause. The lawyers do not understand the very concept of Allocation and Assignment, let alone distinguishing between them. Therefore, allowing lawyers texts to manage community resources is not only illegitimate, but also lacks of needed technical understanding of addressing to properly write it, that is why we now have an RSA which is full of invalid IP management clauses and contradiction to the policy itself, which needs to be fixed at some point of time. Not to mention that allowing lawyers to manage the resources defies the very foundation of the bottom up process.

 

[Jordi] Yes, I just said it ? probably the RSA needs a lot of tidy-up ? and not just by lawyers!

 

Le jeu. 11 f?vr. 2021 ? 20:34, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss <community-discuss at afrinic.net> a ?crit :

Hi Widjane,

 

I agree with you in some of the points, but not in all them.

 

1.       Policies among the RIRs aren?t exactly the same. They tend to converge with the time, but not always are 100% the same.

2.       In fact, in some RIRs, right now, if you asked for resources and provided documents about what will be the usage and you change usage, you?re under lack of compliance. Note that we aren?t talking about business grow. For example, a very simple on, let?s suppose you got resources for an organization (assigned resources) and now you want to provide Internet services to others, that will be against policies, in all the RIRs. Another example, if you got resources in some RIRs you can?t use them to provide services outside of that region (at all, example AFRINIC, or depending on the % example LACNIC, it depends on the RIR).

3.       I can agree with your that this is not right in many situations and policy should allow it. However, there are technical issues about allowing that freely, not just policy issues (and sometimes the policy issues, in fact, happen because technical issues).

4.       AFRINIC is the only RIR, at the time being, that has not adopted (ratified and even less implemented) a policy proposal for Inter-RIR transfers. However, even in most of the RIRs, the allowed transfers are only for IPv4.

5.       I will love that we could make policy changes in a more dynamic way, but specially in AFRINIC, it is being too slow.

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 11/2/21 20:01, "Wijdane Goubi" <wijdan.goubi at gmail.com> escribi?:

 

Dear community,

Technically speaking, if a change of the nature is not allowed (as claimed by some) this doesn?t make any technical sense at all as there are consensus among several RIRs to allow inter RIR transfer and also allows intra RIR transfers. 

The logic adopted that the change of nature is not permitted doesn?t sit well with the established sections of the policies adopted and used. In fact, the logic will bar and limit the ability for an organization to grow and expend its services. 

This imposition will also burden the member to go through unnecessary bureaucratic demands and expectations whereas the matter could easily be resolved. The policy and understanding of business nature needs to be as dynamic as the internet is!

The internet grows and evolves from one form to another, so should the policy. 
In fact, RIR never bothers or care with how the space is being used for.

A post from years ago (https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2017/007222.html ), from both ARIN and RIPE explained that once the space is issued, their only concern is to ensure accurate registration.

The video and the section where both ARIN and RIPE NCC are speaking can be found on the following link: https://youtu.be/XBv44KAgFVQlist=PLLJRUWAm1GCZAGzqiCzX2CRU7oqLDC9e5 

At or around 08:27:50, Andrea Cima from RIPE NCC explains that their reviews are called ?ARC?, and it is to keep in touch and keep the data up to data, registry data, that is the contact details and so on. Investigation, that is the part of the ?fraud?.

Whereas, at or around 08:29:50, Leslie from ARIN explains the scope of their policy, they only audit in fraud cases and only deregister in case of fraud.

Neither the RIPE NCC or ARIN does a re-evaluation of the resources and questions on how the LIRs are currently using their resources.

There is a global consensus on how spaces are being used currently?as long as the allocation process was justified and registration is actual, RIR does not care about its current usage.

_______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss 


**********************************************
IPv4 is over
Are you ready for the new Internet ?
http://www.theipv6company.com
The IPv6 Company

This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.

_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss



**********************************************
IPv4 is over
Are you ready for the new Internet ?
http://www.theipv6company.com
The IPv6 Company

This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.

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From rfg at tristatelogic.com  Sat Feb 13 09:22:29 2021
From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 01:22:29 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Blog: A Comprehensive audit of the AFRINIC
	WHOIS Database
In-Reply-To: <CAEqgTWYPM=tXAEYnHpxExFBEUvJAX6G6K5kLOc1TuzT1G1Os4A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <68429.1613208149@segfault.tristatelogic.com>

In message <CAEqgTWYPM=tXAEYnHpxExFBEUvJAX6G6K5kLOc1TuzT1G1Os4A at mail.gmail.com>
Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:

>In short AFRINIC is paving the way and seeks the communities input on how
>to handle the abandoned space.
>
>When one attempts a whois query today, you will note a flag which AFRINIC
>has slapped on most of the legacy space which has since been recovered some
>of which is under dispute.
>
>But we have an RIR in AFRINIC which is now trying to do something about it.
>
>I am of the view that we perhaps engage the working group to see if we can
>work out a policy on how to handle the space and/or getting it into the
>free pool.


I have attempted to make my own views on this issue clear.

Legacy blocks that are under the administration of AFRINIC should all
be returned to their rightful owners, or to the rightful legal heirs and
successors of those organizations where such may be reasonably determined,
based on historical research.

It is my firm belief, based upon my own investment of many many hours
in doing exactly such research, that the rightful owners, or their
legitimate and legal heirs and successors can be found... most quite
easily... for each and every legacy block that falls under the current
administration of AFRINIC.


Regards,
rfg



From mje at posix.co.za  Sat Feb 13 09:43:39 2021
From: mje at posix.co.za (Mark Elkins)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 11:43:39 +0200
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Blog: A Comprehensive audit of the AFRINIC
 WHOIS Database
In-Reply-To: <68429.1613208149@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
References: <68429.1613208149@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
Message-ID: <ad369158-d6c0-4c9c-ad05-c3b78309de27@posix.co.za>

I completely agree with Ronald regarding Legacy Blocks. Obviously, if 
these entities no longer want their blocks back - stick them into the 
free-pool for general consumption - not that I expect (m)any 
organisations to no longer want them.


On 2/13/21 11:22 AM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> In message <CAEqgTWYPM=tXAEYnHpxExFBEUvJAX6G6K5kLOc1TuzT1G1Os4A at mail.gmail.com>
> Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:
>
>> In short AFRINIC is paving the way and seeks the communities input on how
>> to handle the abandoned space.
>>
>> When one attempts a whois query today, you will note a flag which AFRINIC
>> has slapped on most of the legacy space which has since been recovered some
>> of which is under dispute.
>>
>> But we have an RIR in AFRINIC which is now trying to do something about it.
>>
>> I am of the view that we perhaps engage the working group to see if we can
>> work out a policy on how to handle the space and/or getting it into the
>> free pool.
>
> I have attempted to make my own views on this issue clear.
>
> Legacy blocks that are under the administration of AFRINIC should all
> be returned to their rightful owners, or to the rightful legal heirs and
> successors of those organizations where such may be reasonably determined,
> based on historical research.
>
> It is my firm belief, based upon my own investment of many many hours
> in doing exactly such research, that the rightful owners, or their
> legitimate and legal heirs and successors can be found... most quite
> easily... for each and every legacy block that falls under the current
> administration of AFRINIC.
>
>
> Regards,
> rfg
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
-- 

Mark James ELKINS? -? Posix Systems - (South) Africa
mje at posix.co.za?????? Tel: +27.826010496 <tel:+27826010496>
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za 
<https://ftth.posix.co.za>

Posix SystemsVCARD for MJ Elkins

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From rfg at tristatelogic.com  Sat Feb 13 11:22:40 2021
From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 03:22:40 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Blog: A Comprehensive audit of the AFRINIC
	WHOIS Database
In-Reply-To: <0b787eda-9288-d290-4ae5-282a38295cf8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <69177.1613215360@segfault.tristatelogic.com>

In message <0b787eda-9288-d290-4ae5-282a38295cf8 at gmail.com>, 
Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:

> From the report ...
>
>  * Our current business rules now provide better support to legacy
>    resource holders such that proper verification for legacy resources
>    holders will be conducted before any updates are made to the records
>    on the AFRINIC WHOIS database.

I am very glad that Sunday Folayan has quoted this particular section
of the report.  He has saved me from having to do so here myself.

For well more than a year now, an ongoing and frequent topic of discussion
between myself and journalist Jan Vermeulen has been the question of how
exactly it came to pass that so many (20+) AFRINIC-administered large
legacy blocks came to be effectively in the hands of one man, Elad Cohen.

In the total absence of -any- information from either the AFRINIC Board
or management, we have been forced to speculate, and to consider every
even remotely plausible explaination for this ongoing mystery.  I will
now list all of these possibilities here.

Of course, it should not be necessary for either myself, or Jan, or the
dues-paying AFRINIC members to have to guess about any of this.  AFRINIC
management and the board *must* know what really happened.  They just
completed a massive and detailed audit of all of these foolish and corrupt
shenanigans, after all!  They are just simply loath to share what they
know, either with me, with Jan, with the press generally, or even with
the dues-paying AFRINIC members.

If we ask the question: "Why are the AFRINIC management and board not
willing to explain how those twenty or so legacy blocks ended up in the
hands of Cohen and his co-conspirators?" the answer is obvious, I think.
Politics and face saving.  Better to just bury the truth than to tell it.

That is quite obviously the thinking of the Board and managment.  Otherwise
by now they would have explained, in detail, what really happened with
those stolen legacy blocks, assuming that they have been able to determine
that, which they most certainly should have been able to do, considering
that they have had more than a full calendar year to work on the problem,
and that they even had help from APNIC to figure out this whole colossal
mess.

Of course, what I just said above discounts the possibility that, even
at this late date, the AFRINIC Board and management, and even the outside
APNIC consultants might still have no idea what the bleep happened that
caused Mr. Cohen to somehow magically end up with massive amounts of AFRINIC
legacy space.  If so, then that is arguably even worse than them knowing
and being unwilling to share what they know, because it suggests that they
are so throughly inept and incompetent that even with help from APNIC,
they themselves still have no clear idea what really happened here.

Since management and the board have not seen fit to shed any light
whatsoever on the question of how so many legacy blocks just got up and
walked out, apparently all on their own, I will now provide here what I
believe to be an exhastive list of the plausible possibilities... and if
either AFRINIC management or the AFRINIC Board desire to start being
forthcoming about what they know, then they can easily counter and knock
down these speculations, simply by telling us all, at long last, what
they themselves believe really happened with the stolen legacy blocks.

Here are the obvious possibilities:

   1)  Ernest alone engineered the theft of the legacy blocks AS WELL AS
       numerous free pool blocks.  (Unlikely.)

   2)  Someone else, or perhaps several other persons in positions of
       authority within AFRINIC, either acting alone or in conjunction
       with Ernest, engineered the theft of the 20+ legacy blocks, for
       personal gain.

       (I have in hand some evidence to support this theory of the case.)

   3)  AFRINIC was hacked and this allowed the hackers to alter WHOIS
       records at will.

       (I have in hand historical evidence that AFRINIC was in fact hacked
       at least twice during its short lifetime.  Also, a highly superficial
       external-only security audit that I myself performed over a year ago
       found that AFRINIC was, at that time, running at least 20 different
       brands and versions of web server software, some of which had not had
       any security updates applied for well over 6 years.  A current and
       comprehensive security audit of AFRINIC, if done today, would most
       likely show the organization to be tragically insecure, even at the
       present moment.)

In addition to the above three possibilities, the section of the recently
released Audit Report, more than a year in the making, and which Sunday
Folayan has been kind enough to save me the trouble of quoting from,
suggests one more now obvious possible explanation for how 20+ legacy
blocks were separated from their rightful owners by Mr. Cohen and his
various co-conspirators:

   4)  The AFRINIC staff members who were responsible, during the relevant
       time period (2012-2016), for the AFRINIC WHOIS data base, and for
       making MANUAL changes thereto at the request of number resource
       registrants, were simply "socially engineered", i.e. flim-flamed,
       via phone, fax, and email, into making unauthorized and essentially
       bogus changes to the WHOIS data base at the request of Mr. Cohen
       and/or his various co-conspirators.  They were successfully flim-
       flamed because they made little or no effort to verify the identities
       of the persons or organizations that they made WHOIS changes for.

I encourage everyone to read again the exact passage from the Audit Report
that Sunday Folayan quoted:

>  * Our current business rules now provide better support to legacy
>    resource holders such that proper verification for legacy resources
>    holders will be conducted before any updates are made to the records
>    on the AFRINIC WHOIS database.

This is an extraordinarily telling statement!  Translated into plain English
it says that *now* AFRINIC is finally going to *begin* to check the identities
of the people and companies that contact it and who are requesting AFRINIC
staff to make changes, on their behalf, to the WHOIS data base.

The implication of this statement could not be more clear.  Quite obviously,
it is an admission that *in the past* AFRINIC staff *were not* in the habit
of checking the identities of the people they were dealing with and/or doing
things for.  Given that admission, is it any wonder that time after time
after time, AFRNIC staff may have been trivially socially engineered into
effectively giving away tens of millions of dollars worth of valuable IPv4
real estate to clever con artists?

(To be clear, if this is what happened, it certainly would be neither
precedent setting nor unique to AFRINIC.  I have previously documented
multiple cases on the NANOG mailing list that prove beyond a reasonable
doubt that ARIN also has had this exact same stupid problem of allowing
themselves to be socially engineered into effectively ceeding control
of various large chunks of valuable abandoned legacy IPv4 address space
to clever con artists.  It is unforgivable that *any* RIR should be so
stupid as to fall for such tricks, but as my late father was fond of
saying "It's hard to get good help these days.")

In a very real sense it almost doesn't matter which of the four possibilities
that I have listed above constitutes the real and true explanation for how
20+ legacy blocks, all under the oversight and control of AFRINIC, were
commandeered, apparently over a period of serveral years, and effectively
stolen by clever cybercrinminals, all apparently without anyone at AFRINIC,
right up to and including the CEO, ever even noticing.  The important
point is less about how it happened than it is about how it possibly could
have happened.  Who was minding the store?  No one, apparently.

Also, of course, there is the issuse of the ongoing stonewalling about
all this by the current board and management.  Have any of them had even
the minimal courtesy and respect for the dues-paying members that pay
their salaries to even begin to try to explain how exactly this all
happened?  No.  Apparently not.

The "final" Audit Report only tells us what resources were investigated,
what resources were reclaimed into the free pool, and what legacy resources 
were returned, so far, to their rightful legal owners.  I confess that
I have not read all 50 pages of the thing, but within the parts that I did
read I saw no hints about which of the above four possibilities applies,
and who should be held to account for these failures.

In short, AFRINC continues to be, as I have previously said it is, something
other than a friend to either transparency or accountability.


Regards,
rfg



From rfg at tristatelogic.com  Sat Feb 13 11:42:12 2021
From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 03:42:12 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Blog: A Comprehensive audit of the AFRINIC
	WHOIS Database
In-Reply-To: <0b787eda-9288-d290-4ae5-282a38295cf8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <69245.1613216532@segfault.tristatelogic.com>

In message <0b787eda-9288-d290-4ae5-282a38295cf8 at gmail.com>, 
Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:

>It is important to quickly address why legacy holders should continue to 
>get **ANY** service from AFRINIC without any form of contract, 
>agreement, relationship or association.

I suggest that AFRINIC legal counsel should meet and confer with ARIN
legal counsel regarding this question/issue before any action, drastic
or otherwise, is undertaken unilaterally by AFRINIC, e.g. to disenfranchise
the legitimate and legal legacy holders.

It is beyond doubt that ARIN has more experience with respect to the
whole matter of legacy blocks and their legal status, and the rights
of their respective registrants, than does AFRINIC.  ARIN has been
dealing with this thorny legal problem for many years before AFRINIC
ever had to grapple with the attendant set of issues.

In the case of ARIN, it was decided long ago that the most legally tenable
course of action was to NOT disturb the legacy blocks or their registrants
in any way.  I am certain that representatives of ARIN can explain in more
detail and in more specifics why this was the ultimate outcome of their
deliberations.  (Hint:  At least some legacy holders threatened to sue 
ARIN if ARIN messed with their stuff or forced them to sign contracts
that they didn't much feel like signing.)

My own feeling is is that legacy blocks and their registrants should be
charged an annual fee of one Mauritian Shilling per block as payment for
maintaining their associated WHOIS record, their associated reverse DNS
delegation, and their associated RPKI key.  This could be done either
with or without a formal written contract.

In the absence of such annual payment being received, by AFRINIC for
any given legacy block, AFRINC could and should effectively reclaim the
block and add it to the free pool, after some appropriate quarantine
period of course.

Such a policy would serve to clear out all of the flotsam and jetsum
of the truly abandoned legacy blocks, returning those to productive use.


Regards,
rfg



From rfg at tristatelogic.com  Sat Feb 13 11:58:23 2021
From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 03:58:23 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Blog: A Comprehensive audit of the AFRINIC
	WHOIS Database
In-Reply-To: <56FF34F4-04C8-48F3-BFC6-699669F55CD2@delong.com>
Message-ID: <69325.1613217503@segfault.tristatelogic.com>

In message <56FF34F4-04C8-48F3-BFC6-699669F55CD2 at delong.com>, 
Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:

>There is literally no way to know whether legacy resources are used or not.
>...
>However, unannounced legacy resources are mostly in an unknown state of
>utilization and it is essentially impossible to determine whether or not
>they are actually in use.

I only wish that I had the first clue about what you are going on about
here Owen.

If a tree falls in the forest, and if it is not routed on the public
Internet, then why should I or anybody else give a damn about what
you do in the privacy of your own intranet?  Your private intranet
and what you do on it is of no concern whatsoever to the actual
Internet community.  Nor does the administration of publicly routable
IP addresses by the various RIRs have any bearing on what you elect
to do on your own private intranet.


Regards,
rfg



From rfg at tristatelogic.com  Sat Feb 13 12:16:32 2021
From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 04:16:32 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Blog: A Comprehensive audit of the AFRINIC
	WHOIS Database
In-Reply-To: <2AD1B79E-F757-41B4-ADF1-26FABE59DE84@delong.com>
Message-ID: <69439.1613218592@segfault.tristatelogic.com>

In message <2AD1B79E-F757-41B4-ADF1-26FABE59DE84 at delong.com>, 
Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:

>I think the idea of "legacy space" is a mistake. The
>idea that there is some magical property to addresses which were first
>issued prior to the existence of RIRs which is preserved in perpetuity
>is absurd.

I personally am inclined to agree with this view, but this viewpoint
is quite certainly not shared by ARIN and/or by ARIN's legal counsel,
for reasons that could best be explained by ARIN's legal counsel,
rather than by me.

In short, it is all well and good for us to express our personal
preferences here on this mailing list, but we are not lawyers and
we are not in court, attempting to defend our actions.

Before AFRINIC makes any change to the current status quo in relation to
legacy blocks, it would be best, I think, to first obtain some actual
legal opinions on the matter from some actual lawyers, as well as some
input from ARIN officials who have a longer history of dealing with this
specific issue.


Regards,
rfg


P.S.  And just so I am clear, I do not think that Mr. Cohen or his
present and pending legal action has any bearing at all on, or should
have any effect at all on any decisions that AFRINIC might elect to
take in relation to legacy blocks.  It may be some time yet, but Mr.
Cohen shall inevitably lose in court, because he can be rather easily
shown to be simply a scam artist, and that will be the end of that.
Thus, his very temporary and silly diversion of our attentions should
not have any effect on the rational discussion of, and decisions about
sensible and generally applicable AFRINIC community developed policies,
going forward.

Like our Mr. Trump here in the U.S.  Mr. Cohen and his crocodile tears
will soon enough be rendered entirely irrelevant.




From rfg at tristatelogic.com  Sat Feb 13 14:06:45 2021
From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 06:06:45 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Blog: A Comprehensive audit of the AFRINIC
	WHOIS Database
In-Reply-To: <9dd03dbe-f868-676f-6367-e11dc315864c@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <69954.1613225205@segfault.tristatelogic.com>

In message <9dd03dbe-f868-676f-6367-e11dc315864c at gmail.com>, 
Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:

>> That last part is simply incorrect.  There is no such thing as an abandoned
>> legacy block in the AFRINIC region for which the legitimate owner, or
>> the legitimate successor in interest cannot be definitively determined.
>
>That there is no abandoned legacy block in the AfriNIC region, does not 
>mean that the statement is not correct. Valid cases may just be 0, that 
>is still Ok.

I only wish I knews what point you were trying to make.

>> I wish that AFRINIC management and/or the AFRINC Board had had the good
>> sense to consult with either myself or with Jan Vermeulen before they
>> elected to incorporate the above erroneous assertions into the Overview
>> of the Audit Report.
>
>Why should AFRINIC consult with you, beyond the whistles you have 
>already blown and what is published?

I don't know.  Perhaps because they might learn something?  Perhaps
because if they had asked me I would have told them BEFORE they wrote
up this report that there are -ZERO- legacy blocks for which a current
rightful owner cannot be found?

>Doesn't that suggest that you want to trade some of these information? I 
>hope not!

That comment is beneath you Sunday.  I'm giving you a fair opportunity
now to retract it. 

I have dedicated countless hours of my time to pursuing and finding the
truth about what has happened in the AFRINIC region, and I dare you or
anybody else to point to a single dime that I have made from all of this
time and effort that I have invested.  I did this selflessly, with -ZERO-
compensation of any kind, and for the good of the Internet community as
a whole, and for the AFRINIC community in particular.

>Why should you be trusted, above any other person including those who 
>may make a claim to *any* of the blocks?

Because I have researched and found the historical evidence that makes
the true, legal, and rightful ownership clear in each case.

I am not seeking to have anyone trust me, or believe in me anymore that
Galileo Galilei was asking members of the Catholic clergy to trust him
regarding the motion of the planets.  They did not need to trust him.
They only needed to use their own eyes and look at the evidence.  Likewise,
I only suggest that AFRINIC should look at the actual evidence before
issuing silly and false statements like "the legal owners can't be found".

I have all that evidence.  I have had it all for more than a year now.
In all that time, management has never asked to see it, and did not ask
to see any of it before just throwing up its hands and declaring the
problem of finding the real owners insoluable.... which was a rather
spectacularly dumb thing for them to have done, since that statement
can be so easily proven wrong.

Just a reminder: Did I ask anyone to "trust me" when I proved that Ernest
was crooked?  No.  I didn't need to.  I had the evidence.  All in Black
& White.  I also have the evidence that proves who owns each and every
stolen legacy block, again in irrefutable Black & White, and from
multiple mutually-confirming historical sources in each case.



>> In point of fact, my detailed and extensive investigations into the histories
>> of every single one of the stolen legacy blocks have persuaded me, based
>> on clear evidence in each case, that there are -zero- such blocks under
>> the authority of AFRINIC where the original registration organizations
>> are "defunct" in the sense of being both dissolved AND having no legitimate
>> and lawful successor in interest.
>
>... and those successors are still into operating real Networks, and not 
>pivoted into journalism or Tourism?

That comment is also beneath you Sunday.  I give you an opportunity to
retract that also.

But to be clear, yes, none of the companies that my research has determined
to be the rightful legal owners of legacy blocks are in any way involved
in the journalism or tourism business.

If you have doubs about this, then why don't you ask some of the many
organizations that I personally have reunited with their stolen legacy
blocks... some of which were stolen under YOUR watch I might add.

Here are just a few of those:

     City of Cape Town (South Africa)
     Columbus Stainless (South Africa)
     Sasol (State-owned oil company - South Africa)
     South African Nuclear Energy Corporation (NECSA)

>Their words, your words, anybody's words. What do we believe?

I understand that as a man of the cloth you personally are obliged to
believe in all sorts of historical fantasies for which no proof is
either offered or available.  But my hope is that you have not become
so divorced from reality by years of religious indoctrination that you
are no longer even able to admit that there might exist such a thing
as actual proof of something here in this life, and in the Real World.

I have already done everything I humanly could to present the world
with hard anhd irrefutable proof when it came to Ernest and his deceitful 
betrayal of his employer and the entire AFRINIC community.  And it appears
that quite a lot of other people, at least, even if not you, were able
to accept, and did accept that proof, and they did subsequently act on
it.  So even if you personally find that you are only able to believe
in the things that you find in scripture, the rest of us out here in
the real world do accept other kind of proof and other kinds of evidence.
(And, I might add, even the Catholic Church eventually apologized to
Galileo Galilei, and admitted that he had been right all along, even
if that apology came about 400 years too late to do Galileo any good.)

Anyway, it is a wate of yout time, of my time, of everyone's time, and
of electrons for us to have a long debate here about epistemology, the
nature of truth, or the nature of hard scientific evidence, so let's
just skip that and I'll say again that  am *not* expecting anyone to
look only to "my words" as either evuidence or proof of anything.  I made
the case against Ernest based on *documents* and the documentary case
was airtight.  I likewise have *documentary* and other evidence showing
exectly who the current rightful and legal owner of every single legacy
block that has been stolen, with the help of AFRINIC, actually is.

>> In a similar vein, it is just plain wrong to assert that it is "no longer
>> practicable to trace down the" legal successors in interest...
>
>Should they not be the ones coming forward and laying as much claims as 
>they can, including having their lawyers chase the squatters and the 
>thieves all round the 4 corners of the globe?

I am sure that this is Mr. Cohen's position and preference on the matter,
however I did not expect a former AFRINIC board member to be advocating
for that viewpoint, perhaps to the benefit of Mr. Cohen.

My answer to your question hwoever is no, if the rightful legal owners
of each block can be reasonable determined based on hard documentary and
historical evidence... which they all can be... then AFRINIC has a moral,
ethical, and also, in my opinion, a legal obligation to restore
control and ownership of those blocks to their respective rightful and
legal owners (which may include the heirs and successors of the original
registrants).

If you find a wallet in the street with money and a man's driver's license
in it, and if the driver's license clearly provides the man's address,
do you think that it would be either moral or ethical (or even legal)
for you to simply keep the wallet and all of the money therein, rather
than returning it to the man at his address or taking it to the police?

Is this what they taught you in Sunday School, Sunday?

>I just do not get the reason why AFRINIC should be after the rightful 
>owners of legacy blocks that are not within its administrative and or 
>service oversight.

It is not necessary to "go after" anyone.  Nobody is either asking or
expecting AFRINIC to book long distance flights to the Americans or
Europe and then rent a set of bloodhounds to chase down individuals
like in some Sherlock Holmes novel.  The only thing that AFRINIC needs
to do is to correct the WHOIS records to reflect the current rightful
and legal owners of each block.  This could be done for all of the
stolen legacy blocks in one day and easily before even the mid-morning
coffee break.  THIS IS NOT HARD.

And it is my assertion that AFRINIC has an overriding moral and ethical
responsibility to correct these relevant WHOIS records, especially since
it was quite clearly AFRINIC that, either due to incompetence or malfesance
or both, allowed these same WHOIS records to become screwed up in the
first place.

Is there really no one on this list, or in the whole of the AFRINIC
region, whose mama taught them to take responsibility for cleaning up
their own messes... the ones that they themselves made?

I really don't think that this sense of responsibility is in any way just
a white european thing.  I believe that mamas in every country on this
globe teach their children this same lesson of personal responsibility.
It therfore seems more than a bit strange to me that the AFRINIC board
and management should need to be reminded of this ancient, universal,
and simple lesson of personal responsibility.  Clean up your own messes.
This is not in any way a novel or radical concept.

>I also do not see why AFRINIC must come to ask you, before you make such 
>information available, granted that your pursuit is altruistic in the 
>first instance.
>
>What am I missing here?

You are perhaps missing the fact that throughout this entire epic fiasco,
it has been my research that propelled the ball forward, and that has
revealed the awful truths behind all of these shenanigans and all of
these easily avoidable institutional failures.

Eveyrthing that I have said about these matters, going all the way back
to 2016, when I first tried, unsuccessfully, to ring the alarm bells,
has been proven true, and has been borne out by mountains of evidence,
the majority of which was found my me and as a result of my hard
investigational work.  Would you now claim that I am anything other
than a qualified, and indeed distinguished authority on these matters?
Who else then would it be simply prudent for AFRINIC to ask when it
comes to the topic of the rightful current ownerships of the various
stolen legacy blocks... blocks that *I* was the first to identify as
having been stolen?

>> AFRINIC has now compounded that original error with another one, i.e. an
>> apparent utter failure and/or unwillingness to do the kind of open source
>> historical research that I have already done, and that would allow each
>> and every stolen legacy block to now be returned to its lawful and
>> rightful owners, each of which CAN BE DEFINITIVELY DETERMINED, contrary
>> to the false assertions made in the Audit Report Overview.
>
>Wow!

Wow indeed.  One would have hoped that, with this epic and man-made disaster
within AFRINIC already having been the subject to press reports everywhere
from the Americas and Europe to as far away as Japan, the AFRINIC board
and management would have tried rather harder to clean up the mess both
completely and in a timely fashion, being, as this all righfully is,
a colossal and a global embarassment.  But they have done neither.  It
tookd them a full year to "investigate" and even now that that is done,
they are still allowing the international interloper and carperbagger,
Mr. Cohen, as well as the international interloper and carperbagger,
Mr. Mehta, to continue to enjoy the fruits of their criminal plunder.
The AFRINIC board and management have failed to restore to their pre-
fiddled states the various WHOIS person records associated with the
stolen legacy blocks, perhaps because nobody within AFRINIC ever saw
fit to make and retain historical backups of the WHOIS data base that
would have allowed such restorations to occur.

These multiple institutional failures are without precedent in the whole
history of the Internet, and some of them, at least, are still ongoing,
even as we speak.  So yes... Wow!  Wow indeed!

>Kindly publish a minority report.

To what end?  It is already obvious to me that neither the board nor
management wants to hear anything I have to say.

>It will:
>
>1. add to the body of facts available,
>
>2. obviously help outline the points where AFRINIC failed.
>
>3. Clarify your motives to a number of us.

Point #3 is also beneath you, Sunday.

My motives are now what they were a year and a half ago, when I started
working with a journalist to get all of this dirty laundry out on the
table.  And they are the same also as they were back in 2016, when I
first raised the alarm... which was ignored... about all of these thefts.

My motives can be summed up quite simply:  I object to the existance of
thieves, crooks, spammers, and scam artists on the Internet.  And I will
spend time and effort to get them off.  Lots of time and lots of effort.
I have no other motives.  If you believe that you have found any others,
then post your evidence.  Until such time as you do, I would encourage
you not to question either my ancestry or my motives, and I will not
question your's.


Regards,
rfg



From noah at neo.co.tz  Sat Feb 13 14:58:33 2021
From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah)
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 2021 17:58:33 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Blog: A Comprehensive audit of the AFRINIC
 WHOIS Database
In-Reply-To: <69954.1613225205@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
References: <9dd03dbe-f868-676f-6367-e11dc315864c@gmail.com>
 <69954.1613225205@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqgTWZpYU0pUF+6w4yUiM8k0=w4oi1M9eUE1q6POV=CuDjn-Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Feb 13, 2021 at 5:11 PM Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
wrote:

> In message <9dd03dbe-f868-676f-6367-e11dc315864c at gmail.com>,
> Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Their words, your words, anybody's words. What do we believe?
>
> I understand that as a man of the cloth you personally are obliged to
> believe in all sorts of historical fantasies for which no proof is
> either offered or available.


Lol... Sunday, please give Ron some benefit of doubt :-)

Noah
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From geier at geier.ne.tz  Sun Feb 14 20:26:23 2021
From: geier at geier.ne.tz (Frank Habicht)
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2021 23:26:23 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Blog: A Comprehensive audit of the AFRINIC
 WHOIS Database
In-Reply-To: <69325.1613217503@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
References: <69325.1613217503@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
Message-ID: <6d52fa5b-b881-3dde-894e-1134c18fcbfc@geier.ne.tz>

On 13/02/2021 14:58, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> In message <56FF34F4-04C8-48F3-BFC6-699669F55CD2 at delong.com>, 
> Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>> However, unannounced legacy resources are mostly in an unknown state of
>> utilization and it is essentially impossible to determine whether or not
>> they are actually in use.
> 
> I only wish that I had the first clue about what you are going on about
> here Owen.
> 
> If a tree falls in the forest, and if it is not routed on the public
> Internet, then why should I or anybody else give a damn about what
> you do in the privacy of your own intranet?  Your private intranet
> and what you do on it is of no concern whatsoever to the actual
> Internet community.  Nor does the administration of publicly routable
> IP addresses by the various RIRs have any bearing on what you elect
> to do on your own private intranet.

Hi Ronald,
I don't think it works like this.
Consider this:
There's an organisation headquartered in a building with 5 corners in
Arlington Virginia, about 23.9 miles (drive) from ARIN HQ (says Google
maps).
Let's call them "DOD".
They have legacy IP space and are not advertising some of it to the
public internet. [1]

If you go and tell ARIN you don't "give a damn" and ask ARIN they should
assign/allocate this to other deserving recipients, I believe the answer
will be a better formulation of "Hell NO".
But I don't want to talk for ARIN.

I think that's an example of what Owen talked about.
But hell, I also don't want to talk for Owen.

Frank

[1]
they might be using some of that "internally"



From owen at delong.com  Mon Feb 15 23:37:24 2021
From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 15:37:24 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Blog: A Comprehensive audit of the AFRINIC
 WHOIS Database
In-Reply-To: <CAEqgTWYOiJQJHDJ7cjGwGvhtfrKPBUjFMaXLkOzKHqa+JnG6hg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8E2D46C5-F034-4ACD-9C09-1BD1116E12CF@afrinic.net>
 <CAEqgTWah944VmGg7iRZ_9qvANgQTZt9QQsr33WjPCkcT+=-hqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <56FF34F4-04C8-48F3-BFC6-699669F55CD2@delong.com>
 <CAEqgTWaHcK_EdCiKVmt5jPgRjrVuqyN0jBfw6Z8kNBL=737duQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <8E73ACE4-851E-40DF-9301-6870A83A20BD@delong.com>
 <CAEqgTWYOiJQJHDJ7cjGwGvhtfrKPBUjFMaXLkOzKHqa+JnG6hg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B0512DB1-3EC9-4139-AD2C-30FF8326948F@delong.com>



> On Feb 11, 2021, at 08:54 , Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, 11 Feb 2021, 15:11 Owen DeLong, <owen at delong.com <mailto:owen at delong.com>> wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Feb 11, 2021, at 03:49 , Noah <noah at neo.co.tz <mailto:noah at neo.co.tz>> wrote:
> 
>> How much unused legacy resources are we looking at?
> 
> 
> I thought the above was a simple question but....
> 
> or are you asking how much legacy space is currently idle?
> 
> Yes and am asking AFRINIC specifically.

How would AFRINIC know?

> Cheers,
> Noah
> 
> PS: @Owen....No need for your long lecturers because I dont need them.

Apparently you do, because you seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of what it takes to determine if space is idle.

Owen

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From owen at delong.com  Mon Feb 15 23:50:58 2021
From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 15:50:58 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Blog: A Comprehensive audit of the AFRINIC
 WHOIS Database
In-Reply-To: <69325.1613217503@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
References: <69325.1613217503@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
Message-ID: <E7481315-38B0-4A14-87CD-1D1FB9E8654A@delong.com>



> On Feb 13, 2021, at 03:58 , Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg at tristatelogic.com> wrote:
> 
> In message <56FF34F4-04C8-48F3-BFC6-699669F55CD2 at delong.com>, 
> Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
> 
>> There is literally no way to know whether legacy resources are used or not.
>> ...
>> However, unannounced legacy resources are mostly in an unknown state of
>> utilization and it is essentially impossible to determine whether or not
>> they are actually in use.
> 
> I only wish that I had the first clue about what you are going on about
> here Owen.
> 
> If a tree falls in the forest, and if it is not routed on the public
> Internet, then why should I or anybody else give a damn about what
> you do in the privacy of your own intranet?  Your private intranet
> and what you do on it is of no concern whatsoever to the actual
> Internet community.  Nor does the administration of publicly routable
> IP addresses by the various RIRs have any bearing on what you elect
> to do on your own private intranet.

Because private network A with address set A talks to private network B
with address set B who also connects to the public internet using address set B.

If someone on the internet starts using address set A, then B now has a
problem communicating with the public internet user of address set A and the
private network A.

Just because addresses aren?t routed visibly on the public internet does
not mean that they are not used in a manner or application where it is important
for them to remain unique.

RIRs register addresses for uniqueness, not merely for internet routing.

Owen




From rfg at tristatelogic.com  Mon Feb 15 23:55:42 2021
From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 15:55:42 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Blog: A Comprehensive audit of the AFRINIC
	WHOIS Database
In-Reply-To: <E7481315-38B0-4A14-87CD-1D1FB9E8654A@delong.com>
Message-ID: <82546.1613433342@segfault.tristatelogic.com>

In message <E7481315-38B0-4A14-87CD-1D1FB9E8654A at delong.com>, 
Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:

>RIRs register addresses for uniqueness, not merely for internet routing.

See RFC1918 for further information.



From owen at delong.com  Tue Feb 16 00:03:16 2021
From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2021 16:03:16 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Blog: A Comprehensive audit of the AFRINIC
 WHOIS Database
In-Reply-To: <82546.1613433342@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
References: <82546.1613433342@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
Message-ID: <A2C738FE-BAB1-47AE-B8E0-BDF20E88CB72@delong.com>



> On Feb 15, 2021, at 15:55 , Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg at tristatelogic.com> wrote:
> 
> In message <E7481315-38B0-4A14-87CD-1D1FB9E8654A at delong.com>, 
> Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:
> 
>> RIRs register addresses for uniqueness, not merely for internet routing.
> 
> See RFC1918 for further information.
> 

RFC1918 provides private address space for applications where uniqueness is not required.

There are applications where uniqueness is necessary without connection to the public internet.

Long standing RIR policy specifically calls these applications out as legitimate in multiple regions.
(I?m not sure about AFRINIC, TBH, I?d have to review the CPM to look for it).

RIRs register addresses for uniqueness, not necessarily for use on the public internet.

Owen




From abscoco at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 05:36:17 2021
From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain BAYA)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 06:36:17 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Usecases for Private Use of INRs (was: Blog: A
	Comprehensive audit of the AFRINIC WHOIS Database)
In-Reply-To: <A2C738FE-BAB1-47AE-B8E0-BDF20E88CB72@delong.com>
References: <82546.1613433342@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
 <A2C738FE-BAB1-47AE-B8E0-BDF20E88CB72@delong.com>
Message-ID: <8DB5AD0C-05D5-482A-B18C-5FB6CEF2B474@pretty.Easy.privacy>

Dear Community, 
Hope you are safe and well!

Please see my comments below (inline). ..

Le mar. 16 f?vr. 2021 01:03, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> a ?crit :
>
> > On Feb 15, 2021, at 15:55 , Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg at tristatelogic.com> 
> wrote:
> > [...]
> > See RFC1918 for further information.
> > 
>
> [...]
> Long standing RIR policy specifically calls these applications out as 
> legitimate in multiple regions.
> (I?m not sure about AFRINIC, TBH, I?d have to review the CPM to look for 
> it).
>

...brother see here [1] please:

~?~
11.2 Distinction between IXP peering and management networks

We distinguish between two kinds of IP number resources needed and used at 
IXPs. 

An IXP peering LAN is the contiguous network address block that the IXP 
would use to assign unique IP addresses to each peering member, for each 
peering participant to exchange network traffic across the shared peering 
infrastructure. *Best practice has the IXP peering LAN not being visible in 
a view of the global routing table*, among other things *to reduce the 
attack vectors* for ISP border routers via the IXP. 
~?~

Hope this helps.
__
[1]: CPM section 11.2 
<https://afrinic.net/cpm-1-6#Resource-Reservations-IXPa>

Question: what are the other relevant usecases?

Thanks.

Blessed tuesday!

Shalom,
--sb.

>
> RIRs register addresses for uniqueness, not necessarily for use on the 
> public internet.
>
> Owen
>
> [...] 



-- 
p?p (pretty Easy privacy) - ...trying :-)
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From noah at neo.co.tz  Tue Feb 16 08:40:59 2021
From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 11:40:59 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Blog: A Comprehensive audit of the AFRINIC
 WHOIS Database
In-Reply-To: <B0512DB1-3EC9-4139-AD2C-30FF8326948F@delong.com>
References: <8E2D46C5-F034-4ACD-9C09-1BD1116E12CF@afrinic.net>
 <CAEqgTWah944VmGg7iRZ_9qvANgQTZt9QQsr33WjPCkcT+=-hqQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <56FF34F4-04C8-48F3-BFC6-699669F55CD2@delong.com>
 <CAEqgTWaHcK_EdCiKVmt5jPgRjrVuqyN0jBfw6Z8kNBL=737duQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <8E73ACE4-851E-40DF-9301-6870A83A20BD@delong.com>
 <CAEqgTWYOiJQJHDJ7cjGwGvhtfrKPBUjFMaXLkOzKHqa+JnG6hg@mail.gmail.com>
 <B0512DB1-3EC9-4139-AD2C-30FF8326948F@delong.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqgTWbcnDctmRo-qtFitp9W-GO2Ln-5qopfxfFOY-A9_ii24g@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 16 Feb 2021, 02:37 Owen DeLong, <owen at delong.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Feb 11, 2021, at 08:54 , Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thu, 11 Feb 2021, 15:11 Owen DeLong, <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 11, 2021, at 03:49 , Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:
>>
>> How much unused legacy resources are we looking at?
>>
>>
>>
> I thought the above was a simple question but....
>
> or are you asking how much legacy space is currently idle?
>>
>
> Yes and am asking AFRINIC specifically.
>
>
> How would AFRINIC know?
>
> Cheers,
> Noah
>
> PS: @Owen....No need for your long lecturers because I dont need them.
>
>
> Apparently you do, because you seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding
> of what it takes to determine if space is idle.
>

Nonsense....

Noah
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From noah at neo.co.tz  Tue Feb 16 08:52:05 2021
From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 11:52:05 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Notice to all the legacy netblocks holders
	in AfriNIC
In-Reply-To: <9720E125-736B-4B95-9BED-29522BC28E55@pretty.Easy.privacy>
References: <CAGDMR_dvNpdmucEEyMQOb1m5Mkq58LAS+MF44LHTGREA_Zrz+A@mail.gmail.com>
 <58415843-9BDC-4B63-A452-1500991D48F0@delong.com>
 <9720E125-736B-4B95-9BED-29522BC28E55@pretty.Easy.privacy>
Message-ID: <CAEqgTWZcuTLWF0pvntmOZx9YvcXWN6+pDAxXFz1Nan+XMb6=8Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 6 Feb 2021, 00:22 Sylvain BAYA, <abscoco at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Community,
> Hope you are doing well!
>
> Le ven. 5 f?vr. 2021 14:44, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> a ?crit :
> >
>
> Dear Owen,
> Thanks for your email, brother.
>
> >
> > Originally, the space was used for some rather specialized connectivity
> > services.
> >
>
> :-) ...any evidence ?
>
> Good new ! we know, now, that no one
> can get Internet number resources
> (INRs) at AfriNIC in justifying its needs
> as to engage in leasing such precious
> resources...
>
> ...what we still not know is *if* their new
> justification of utilization of INRs was
> explaining that they were going to start
> a leasing activity with *our* INRs.


This can only be answered by AFRINIC who have the capacity to check how the
space that was originally meant for a different purpose ended up being used
for leasing which for long this community has shed light too.

Dont expect answers from a conflicted Owen.

Noah
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From owen at delong.com  Tue Feb 16 10:36:35 2021
From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 02:36:35 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Usecases for Private Use of INRs (was:
 Blog: A Comprehensive audit of the AFRINIC WHOIS Database)
In-Reply-To: <8DB5AD0C-05D5-482A-B18C-5FB6CEF2B474@pretty.Easy.privacy>
References: <82546.1613433342@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
 <A2C738FE-BAB1-47AE-B8E0-BDF20E88CB72@delong.com>
 <8DB5AD0C-05D5-482A-B18C-5FB6CEF2B474@pretty.Easy.privacy>
Message-ID: <0A678177-6A9F-4BE2-B0DD-CFA7C2A4485F@delong.com>


> 
> Question: what are the other relevant usecases?

Coordinated coalitions of private networks that may have members which are
also attached to the internet.

Owen




From abscoco at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 12:33:49 2021
From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain BAYA)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 13:33:49 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss]  Usecases for Private Use of INRs
In-Reply-To: <0A678177-6A9F-4BE2-B0DD-CFA7C2A4485F@delong.com>
References: <82546.1613433342@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
 <A2C738FE-BAB1-47AE-B8E0-BDF20E88CB72@delong.com>
 <8DB5AD0C-05D5-482A-B18C-5FB6CEF2B474@pretty.Easy.privacy>
 <0A678177-6A9F-4BE2-B0DD-CFA7C2A4485F@delong.com>
Message-ID: <E8796BD8-6308-4AE1-8D12-C1D3976A4948@pretty.Easy.privacy>

Dear AfriNIC's Community,
-- 
p?p (pretty Easy privacy) - ...trying :-)
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From abscoco at gmail.com  Tue Feb 16 19:52:17 2021
From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain BAYA)
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 20:52:17 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Candidate for a Review on the Utilisation of
	INRs Allocated (was: Notice to all the legacy netblocks
	holders in AfriNIC)
In-Reply-To: <>
References: <>
Message-ID: <88D2DF4C-49FA-433C-B40F-06CFD4E3653E@pretty.Easy.privacy>

{start new thread [1] & copy: BoD+CEO}

Dear AFRINIC's Community,

Please see inline...

Le mar. 16 f?vr. 2021 09:52, Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> a ?crit :
>
> On Sat, 6 Feb 2021, 00:22 Sylvain BAYA, <abscoco at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Community, 
>> Hope you are doing well! 
>>
>> Le ven. 5 f?vr. 2021 14:44, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> a ?crit :
>> >
>>
>> Dear Owen,
>> Thanks for your email, brother. 
>> >
>> > [...]
>>
>> ...what we still not know is *if* their new 
>> justification of utilization of INRs was 
>> explaining that they were going to start 
>> a leasing activity with *our* INRs.
>
> This can only be answered by AFRINIC who have the capacity to check how 
>

Hi Noah,
Thanks for precising this; because my 
questions were directed exactely to 
those who *can* and *must* provide 
answers to this community.

>
> the space that was originally meant for a different purpose ended up being 
> used for leasing which for long this community has shed light too.
>

Hi Ashil, 
Please can you confirm that CEO & BoD 
are taking into account the assertions [2][3][4]
which came from the thread i leaved [1] 
to focus to this particular concern [5]? 

This is my request to AfriNIC's CEO or BoD:

I call you to enforce the entire section 4. 
of the RSA [6] to seriously address this case.

...IMHO, to preserve the power of its RSA,
 AfriNIC should start to reviewing/investigating [see: RSA section 4. (b)(i)] 
[and: RSA section 4. (c)(iii)] the actual utilisation of the INRs allocated to 
that resource member.

~?~
4. Conditions of service
  (a) Where a member, receiving service under an existing agreement applies 
for a change or a variation of the 
type of such service which AFRINIC has been supplying to it, evaluation of 
such a ?change request? will be effected in 
terms of the provisions of clause (2) of the present agreement.
  (b) Cooperation:
    (i) An applicant receiving service under an agreement is at all times 
bound to provide to AFRINIC such 
information, assistance and cooperation as may be reasonably required by 
the latter in the provision 
of the service.
    (ii) Such request for information may also be made where AFRINIC is 
investigating (reviewing) the 
applicant?s utilisation of the number resources already assigned to it.
    (iii) Failure by the applicant, to comply with a request made at above 
may:
      (1) entail revocation or withholding of the service supplied by 
AFRINIC;
      (2) be taken into account by AFRINIC in its evaluation for further 
and future assignment or 
allocation of number resources;
      (3) lead to the closure of an LIR and termination of the agreement by 
AFRINIC.
  (c) Applicant?s use of the service
The Applicant hereby irrevocably:
    (i) Commits itself to using the services solely for the purpose for 
which it was requested.
    (ii) Commits itself to using the services in full and unreserved 
compliance with AFRINIC?s policies and 
mandate:
      (1) without knowingly infringing the rights and/or interests of other 
users of such services,
      (2) within the limits of applicable laws and/or regulations of the 
jurisdiction in which it operates.
    (iii) Further acknowledges that AFRINIC may at its own discretion and 
for good cause and common 
Interest of the stability of the Internet, investigate or cause to be 
investigated, the Applicant?s use of 
the services by the appropriate and competent authority(ies).
    (iv) Hereby binds itself to:
      (1) notify AFRINIC whenever its circumstances so change that it is no 
longer in need of the 
Internet number resources supplied or being supplied to it under a 
Registration Service 
Agreement;
      (2) surrender to AFRINIC within 15 days of the service of the notice 
at (iv)(1) above the Internet 
number resources supplied or being supplied to it under a Registration 
Service Agreement;
      (3) update any data submitted to AFRINIC in the context of:
        a. an application for a Registration Service Agreement or
        b. the renewal of any Registration Service Agreement
whenever such data have been the subject of amendment, change or have 
become outdated.
  (d) AFRINIC will comply with all applicable data protection and privacy 
laws of the Republic of Mauritius in its 
handling of data and information submitted to it by the Applicant in 
furtherance of an application for services 
and use thereof.
~?~

Thanks.
__
[1]: <
https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-February/thread.html#3891.html
>
[2]: <
https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-February/003907.html
>
[3]: <
https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-February/003910.html
>
[4]: <
https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-February/003960.html
>
[5]: <
https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-February/003912.html
>
[6]: <https://afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa>


Shalom,
--sb.

>
> [...]
>
> Noah 
>


-- 
p?p (pretty Easy privacy) - ...trying :'-(
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From eddy at afrinic.net  Mon Feb 22 10:19:35 2021
From: eddy at afrinic.net (Eddy Kayihura)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 14:19:35 +0400
Subject: [Community-Discuss] February 2021 Updates
Message-ID: <02b501d70904$38fbbc60$aaf33520$@afrinic.net>

 

[Version en fran?ais au bas]

 

Dear Colleagues,

I hope that you are keeping well. It is that time that I share with you the
updates on our activities in February 2021. This time I have decided to
share this update to the RPD mailing list as well, since there are important
updates for the Policy Development Working Group.

 

Updates on the AFRINIC WHOIS Database Accuracy 

 

As you may be aware, AFRINIC published an Audit Report of all IPv4 number
resources, which consisted of verifying the rightful custodianship of those
resources, including both legacy and non-legacy resources that fall under
AFRINIC?s service region.

 

In January 2021, AFRINIC reclaimed the IPv4 prefix 196.52.0.0/14, amounting
to 262,144 IP addresses from Logic web Inc. AFRINIC has been informed that
Logic Web Inc has retained services of legal advisers to initiate legal
actions against AFRINIC. We therefore await being formally served with the
relevant court summons. 

 

Regarding the ongoing court case ref: Afri Holdings Ltd & Ors v/s AFRINIC
(SC/COM/WRT/000295/2020), the  matter is still pending before the Honourable
Judge Chambers (Commercial Division) of the Mauritian Supreme Court.
However, we consider it also appropriate to add that in case someone having
an interest in the matter wishes to intervene as a party therein, he/she may
make an application to the Hon. Judge in Chambers citing the following cause
number SC/COM/WRT/000295/2020.

 

In regard to the resources holding legacy status that were investigated, we
request the legal successors of the organisations recorded as holders of
these resources to contact AFRINIC at hostmaster at afrinic.net
<mailto:hostmaster at afrinic.net> , the earliest possible, so that they may be
guided as to how to proceed.  

 

 

AFRINIC PDP

On 06 February 2021, the Chairman of the Recall Committee announced that the
two PDP Co-chairs were recalled from their positions as Co-Chairs of the
Policy Development Process with immediate effect. As a direct consequence of
the above, the AFRINIC PDP is in an unprecedented situation of having two
vacancies for its co-chair positions.

 

AFRINIC, in its role as secretariat to the Policy Development Working Group
(PDWG), has been asked to help facilitate the ongoing discussions on the
most sensible way to resolve the current situation. We will be collecting
all proposed options and compiling a staff assessment and impact analysis
which will be shared on the RPD mailing list. We trust the PDWG will come
together and find a suitable way forward.  

I urge our resource members and our community to participate in this core
component of our bottom-up, all-inclusive process that AFRINIC and its
community were founded upon. 

 

Having said that, I firmly believe that it is our responsibility as
secretariat to the AFRINIC community to foster a safe and all-inclusive
environment where community members, volunteers as well as AFRINIC staff
feel supported and comfortable serving this community without the fear of
being publicly harassed and personally attacked. I take this responsibility
extremely seriously and am committed to dedicating all necessary resources
towards the delivery of this safe and all-inclusive environment. We will be
sharing soon a blog post that will cover steps taken by AFRINIC as well as a
number of campaigns that we plan to launch this year on this key component
of what any community is founded upon.

 

AFRINIC Mailing-list Terms of use

This comes after several concerns raised from community members on the
virulence of exchanges on AFRINIC mailing lists and the growing number of
one-off posts from incognito aliases. To safeguard the community from being
subject to these inappropriate behaviours, we are considering developing
mechanisms to verify and authenticate the mailing lists? users. 

 

To this end, we would appreciate your comments on the proposed AFRINIC
Mailing Lists Terms of Use. You are welcome to put in your comments before
28 February 2021 here>>
https://www.afrinic.net/20210202-afrinic-mailinglists-terms-of-use

 

Africa Internet Summit 2021

 

I am happy to announce that Africa Internet Summit 2021 (AIS?21) will be
held online from 31st May - 4th June 2021. We shall communicate the details
on registration and event program in due course. I need not remind you all
how important it is to get involved with these public meetings, the rich
content it has to offer as well as the PDP sessions and discussions that
will be held. 

 

As a community we should always keep in mind what unites us and why we came
together in the first place. It is key for the sustainable development of
our digital economy in Africa to get all diverse opinions on board and then
consent on what needs to be done and the best way to accomplish our common
goals. 

  

I wish you well as we pursue our common goals and aspirations.

 

Thank You.

Kind Regards,

Eddy Kayihura,

Chief Executive Officer,

African Network Information Centre (AFRINIC).

www.afrinic.net <http://www.afrinic.net>  

 

 















.

 

French version

 

Chers coll?gues,

J'esp?re que vous vous portez bien. C'est ? cette occasion que je vous fais
part des mises ? jour de nos activit?s en f?vrier 2021. Cette fois-ci, j'ai
d?cid? de partager cette mise ? jour avec les listes de diffusion de la RPD
puisqu'il y a des mises ? jour importantes pour le groupe de travail sur
l'?laboration des politiques.

 

Mises ? jour sur l'exactitude de la base de donn?es  WHOIS d'AFRINIC 

 

Comme vous le savez peut-?tre, l'AFRINIC a publi? un rapport d'audit de
toutes les ressources num?riques IPv4, qui consistait ? v?rifier la garde
l?gitime de ces ressources, y compris les ressources legacy et non legacy
qui rel?vent de la r?gion de service de l?AFRINIC.

 

En janvier 2021, AFRINIC a r?cup?r? le pr?fixe IPv4 196.52.0.0/14, soit 262
144 adresses IP de Logic web Inc. L'AFRINIC a ?t? inform? que Logic Web Inc.
a retenu les services de conseillers juridiques pour engager des actions en
justice contre l'AFRINIC. Nous attendons donc que la convocation du tribunal
nous soit officiellement signifi?e. 

 

En ce qui concerne l'affaire judiciaire en cours r?f: Afri Holdings Ltd &
Ors v/s AFRINIC (SC/COM/WRT/000295/2020), l'affaire est toujours d'actualit?
devant l'honorable juge en chambre  (Division commerciale) de la Cour
supr?me de Maurice. Toutefois, nous estimons qu'il convient ?galement
d'ajouter que si une personne ayant un int?r?t dans l'affaire souhaite
intervenir en tant que partie, elle peut adresser une requ?te ? l'honorable
juge en chambre en citant la r?f?rence suivante SC/COM/WRT/000295/2020.

 

En ce qui concerne les ressources ayant le statut legacy qui ont fait
l'objet d'une enqu?te, nous demandons aux successeurs l?gaux des
organisations enregistr?es comme d?tenteurs de  ces ressources de contacter
l'AFRINIC ? hostmaster at afrinic.net <mailto:hostmaster at afrinic.net> , le plus
t?t possible, afin qu'ils puissent ?tre guid?s sur la mani?re de proc?der.  

 

 

PDP d'AFRINIC

Le 6 f?vrier 2021, le pr?sident du comit? de rappel a annonc? que les deux
copr?sidents du PDP avaient ?t? rappel?s de leurs postes de copr?sidents du
processus d'?laboration des politiques avec effet imm?diat. En cons?quence
directe de ce qui pr?c?de, le PDP D'AFRINIC se trouve dans une situation
sans pr?c?dent, avec deux postes vacants pour ses copr?sidents.

 

L'AFRINIC, dans son r?le de secr?tariat du groupe de travail sur
l'?laboration des politiques (PDWG), a ?t? invit?e ? contribuer ? faciliter
les discussions en cours sur la mani?re la plus judicieuse de r?soudre la
situation actuelle. Nous allons rassembler toutes les options propos?es et
compiler une ?valuation du personnel / analyse d'impact et la partager sur
la liste de diffusion de la RPD. Nous sommes convaincus que le groupe de
travail se r?unira et trouvera une solution appropri?e. 

 

J'invite instamment nos membres ressources et notre communaut? ? participer
? cette composante essentielle de notre processus ascendant et inclusif sur
lequel l'AFRINIC et sa communaut? ont ?t? fond?es. 

 

Cela dit, je crois fermement qu'il est de notre responsabilit? en tant que
secr?tariat de la communaut? AFRINIC de favoriser un environnement s?r et
inclusif o? les membres de la communaut?, les b?n?voles ainsi que le
personnel d'AFRINIC se sentent soutenus et ? l'aise pour servir cette
communaut? sans craindre d'?tre publiquement harcel?s et personnellement
attaqu?s. Je prends cette responsabilit? extr?mement au s?rieux et je
m'engage ? consacrer toutes les ressources n?cessaires ? la mise en place de
cet environnement s?r et inclusif. Nous partagerons bient?t un article de
blog qui couvrira les mesures prises par AFRINIC ainsi qu'un certain nombre
de campagnes que nous pr?voyons de lancer cette ann?e sur cet ?l?ment cl? de
ce sur quoi toute communaut? est fond?e.

 

Conditions d'utilisation de la liste de diffusion AFRINIC

Cela fait suite ? plusieurs inqui?tudes exprim?es par des membres de la
communaut? sur la virulence des ?changes sur les listes de diffusion AFRINIC
et le nombre croissant de messages ponctuels provenant d'alias incognito.
Pour ?viter que la communaut? ne soit soumise ? ces comportements
inappropri?s, nous envisageons de d?velopper des m?canismes pour v?rifier et
authentifier les utilisateurs des listes de diffusion. 

 

? cette fin, nous appr?cierions vos commentaires sur les conditions
d'utilisation propos?es pour les listes de diffusion AFRINIC. Vous ?tes
invit?s ? nous faire part de vos commentaires avant le 28 f?vrier 2021 ici>>
https://www.afrinic.net/20210202-afrinic-mailinglists-terms-of-use

 

 

Africa Internet Summit 2021

 

Je suis heureux d'annoncer que le Sommet Africain de l'Internet 2021
(AIS'21) se tiendra en ligne du 31 mai au 4 juin 2021. Nous vous
communiquerons les d?tails sur l'inscription et le programme de l'?v?nement
ult?rieurement. Je n'ai pas besoin de vous rappeler ? tous combien il est
important de s'impliquer dans ces r?unions publiques, l'excellent contenu
qu'elles ont ? offrir ainsi que les sessions et discussions PDP qui auront
lieu. 

 

En tant que communaut?, nous devons toujours garder ? l'esprit ce qui nous
unit et pourquoi nous nous sommes r?unis au d?part. Il est essentiel pour le
d?veloppement durable de notre ?conomie num?rique en Afrique d'obtenir
l'adh?sion de toutes les opinions diverses, puis leur consentement sur ce
qui doit ?tre fait et sur la meilleure fa?on d'atteindre nos objectifs
communs.   

 

Je vous souhaite bonne chance dans la poursuite de nos objectifs et
aspirations communs.

 

Cordialement,

Eddy Kayihura,

Directeur g?n?ral,

African Network Information Centre (AFRINIC).

www.afrinic.net <http://www.afrinic.net>  

 

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From noah at neo.co.tz  Mon Feb 22 21:06:02 2021
From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 00:06:02 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Candidate for a Review on the Utilisation
 of INRs Allocated (was: Notice to all the legacy netblocks holders in
 AfriNIC)
In-Reply-To: <88D2DF4C-49FA-433C-B40F-06CFD4E3653E@pretty.Easy.privacy>
References: <88D2DF4C-49FA-433C-B40F-06CFD4E3653E@pretty.Easy.privacy>
Message-ID: <CAEqgTWYkYKNf+QCa7qbMP6PywXMyoDdhRuorio-POQLXzpnBSA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Sylvain

So I missed this email but I have since read through. Before I comment
further, did you get any feedback from the board  and CEO directly?

*./noah*
neo - network engineering and operations


On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 10:52 PM Sylvain BAYA <abscoco at gmail.com> wrote:

> {start new thread [1] & copy: BoD+CEO}
>
> Dear AFRINIC's Community,
>
> Please see inline...
>
> Le mar. 16 f?vr. 2021 09:52, Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> a ?crit :
> >
> > On Sat, 6 Feb 2021, 00:22 Sylvain BAYA, <abscoco at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Dear Community,
> >> Hope you are doing well!
> >>
> >> Le ven. 5 f?vr. 2021 14:44, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> a ?crit :
> >> >
> >>
> >> Dear Owen,
> >> Thanks for your email, brother.
> >> >
> >> > [...]
> >>
> >> ...what we still not know is *if* their new
> >> justification of utilization of INRs was
> >> explaining that they were going to start
> >> a leasing activity with *our* INRs.
> >
> > This can only be answered by AFRINIC who have the capacity to check how
> >
>
> Hi Noah,
> Thanks for precising this; because my
> questions were directed exactely to
> those who *can* and *must* provide
> answers to this community.
>
> >
> > the space that was originally meant for a different purpose ended up
> being
> > used for leasing which for long this community has shed light too.
> >
>
> Hi Ashil,
> Please can you confirm that CEO & BoD
> are taking into account the assertions [2][3][4]
> which came from the thread i leaved [1]
> to focus to this particular concern [5]?
>
> This is my request to AfriNIC's CEO or BoD:
>
> I call you to enforce the entire section 4.
> of the RSA [6] to seriously address this case.
>
> ...IMHO, to preserve the power of its RSA,
> AfriNIC should start to reviewing/investigating [see: RSA section 4.
> (b)(i)]
> [and: RSA section 4. (c)(iii)] the actual utilisation of the INRs
> allocated to
> that resource member.
>
> ~?~
> 4. Conditions of service
> (a) Where a member, receiving service under an existing agreement applies
> for a change or a variation of the
> type of such service which AFRINIC has been supplying to it, evaluation of
> such a ?change request? will be effected in
> terms of the provisions of clause (2) of the present agreement.
> (b) Cooperation:
> (i) An applicant receiving service under an agreement is at all times
> bound to provide to AFRINIC such
> information, assistance and cooperation as may be reasonably required by
> the latter in the provision
> of the service.
> (ii) Such request for information may also be made where AFRINIC is
> investigating (reviewing) the
> applicant?s utilisation of the number resources already assigned to it.
> (iii) Failure by the applicant, to comply with a request made at above
> may:
> (1) entail revocation or withholding of the service supplied by
> AFRINIC;
> (2) be taken into account by AFRINIC in its evaluation for further
> and future assignment or
> allocation of number resources;
> (3) lead to the closure of an LIR and termination of the agreement by
> AFRINIC.
> (c) Applicant?s use of the service
> The Applicant hereby irrevocably:
> (i) Commits itself to using the services solely for the purpose for
> which it was requested.
> (ii) Commits itself to using the services in full and unreserved
> compliance with AFRINIC?s policies and
> mandate:
> (1) without knowingly infringing the rights and/or interests of other
> users of such services,
> (2) within the limits of applicable laws and/or regulations of the
> jurisdiction in which it operates.
> (iii) Further acknowledges that AFRINIC may at its own discretion and
> for good cause and common
> Interest of the stability of the Internet, investigate or cause to be
> investigated, the Applicant?s use of
> the services by the appropriate and competent authority(ies).
> (iv) Hereby binds itself to:
> (1) notify AFRINIC whenever its circumstances so change that it is no
> longer in need of the
> Internet number resources supplied or being supplied to it under a
> Registration Service
> Agreement;
> (2) surrender to AFRINIC within 15 days of the service of the notice
> at (iv)(1) above the Internet
> number resources supplied or being supplied to it under a Registration
> Service Agreement;
> (3) update any data submitted to AFRINIC in the context of:
> a. an application for a Registration Service Agreement or
> b. the renewal of any Registration Service Agreement
> whenever such data have been the subject of amendment, change or have
> become outdated.
> (d) AFRINIC will comply with all applicable data protection and privacy
> laws of the Republic of Mauritius in its
> handling of data and information submitted to it by the Applicant in
> furtherance of an application for services
> and use thereof.
> ~?~
>
> Thanks.
> __
> [1]: <
>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-February/thread.html#3891.html
> >
> [2]: <
>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-February/003907.html
> >
> [3]: <
>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-February/003910.html
> >
> [4]: <
>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-February/003960.html
> >
> [5]: <
>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-February/003912.html
> >
> [6]: <https://afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa>
>
>
> Shalom,
> --sb.
>
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > Noah
> >
>
>
> --
> p?p (pretty Easy privacy) - ...trying :'-(
>
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From rfg at tristatelogic.com  Tue Feb 23 00:19:36 2021
From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 16:19:36 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] February 2021 Updates
In-Reply-To: <02b501d70904$38fbbc60$aaf33520$@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <21277.1614039576@segfault.tristatelogic.com>

In message <02b501d70904$38fbbc60$aaf33520$@afrinic.net>, 
"Eddy Kayihura" <eddy at afrinic.net> wrote:

>In January 2021, AFRINIC reclaimed the IPv4 prefix 196.52.0.0/14, amounting to
>262,144 IP addresses from Logic web Inc. AFRINIC has been informed that Logic
>Web Inc has retained services of legal advisers to initiate legal actions
>against AFRINIC. We therefore await being formally served with the relevant
>court summons.

I would be willing to bet money right now that despite all of the bluster
and posturing to the contrary, neither Chad Abizeid nor Deepak Mehta are
going to be dumb enough to try to follow in the footsteps of Mr. Cohen by
wasting perfectly good money pursuing a claim that they cannot possibly win.
My personal theory is that Cohen only did so because he got flim-flammed by
the fast talking Maikel Uerlings, and now he is just hoping against hope
that he can find some way to get at least some of his money back.... which
will actually never happen.  He thinks that he can somehow recoup his
losses, suffered at the hands of Uerlings, but I think it's fair to say
that he hasn't exactly demonstrated a firm grip on either reality or
rationality.

Abizeid and Mehta are not quite so deluded, I think.  They know what they
did and how they did it.  Based on that, I have to believe that they both
understand that suing AFRINIC is only going to prove to be a black hole
for them, financially speaking.  (That assumes, of course, that AFRINIC
doesn't just try to cut some secret back-room deals with these guys just
to persuade them to go away.... which I sincerly hope that AFRINIC will
not do.)

>Regarding the ongoing court case ref: Afri Holdings Ltd & Ors v/s AFRINIC (SC/
>COM/WRT/000295/2020), the matter is still pending before the Honourable Judge
>Chambers (Commercial Division) of the Mauritian Supreme Court. 

I don't think there is a single thing about that lawsuit, or its handling
thus far, or even the judge overseeing it that could in any way seriously
be called "honourable".  In any sane judicial system this would not have
been allowed to drag on already as long as it has, and would have been
tossed out long ago.  There's nothing at all honourable about the
Supreme Court of Mauritius taking this long to resolve what is and what
should have been an open and shut case of fraud.  Nor is there anything
which is in the least bit honorable about the Supreme Court of Mauritius
shrouding the entire proceedings in a cloak of impenetrable mystery, or
abuot the parties to the lawsuit doing likewise.  I can certainly see
however why the Supreme Court of Mauritius wants minimal publicity about
this whole affair, and more specifically, minimal publicity about their
own role in perpetuating this farce for months on end, with no end in
sight anytime soon.

God made the Universe in seven days, but the Supreme Court of Mauritius
apparently can't manage to figure out a rather straightforward, although
novel fraud scheme, even given more than seven months to do so.

Perhaps they are still searching for their powdered wigs and buggy whips.


Regards,
rfg



From abscoco at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 08:27:00 2021
From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain Baya)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 09:27:00 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Candidate for a Review on the Utilisation of
	INRs Allocated
In-Reply-To: <CAEqgTWYkYKNf+QCa7qbMP6PywXMyoDdhRuorio-POQLXzpnBSA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <88D2DF4C-49FA-433C-B40F-06CFD4E3653E@pretty.Easy.privacy>
 <CAEqgTWYkYKNf+QCa7qbMP6PywXMyoDdhRuorio-POQLXzpnBSA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJjTEvGunwqp05z4VV_3zFRhabyKXpVDMQnnOKkEdwpyQKgm_Q@mail.gmail.com>

{TYA: AfriNIC BoD's Chair + CEO}

Dear AfriNIC & Community,

Le lun. 22 f?vr. 2021 22:06, Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> a ?crit :

> Hi Sylvain
>

Hi Noah,
Thanks for your email!


> So I missed this email but I have since read through.
>


...it's not too late brother, IMHO.


Before I comment further, did you get any feedback from the board  and CEO
> directly?
>

No one contacted me privately!

...this is a public matter! but i may be wrong though :-/

Thanks for the follow-up.

...please go ahead, brother.

It seems as more noice is needed before any action
from AfriNIC's side could be even just announced/envisioned.
:'-(

Thanks & Blessed tuesday!

Shalom,
--sb.



> *./noah*
> neo - network engineering and operations
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 16, 2021 at 10:52 PM Sylvain BAYA <abscoco at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> {start new thread [1] & copy: BoD+CEO}
>>
>> Dear AFRINIC's Community,
>>
>> Please see inline...
>>
>> Le mar. 16 f?vr. 2021 09:52, Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> a ?crit :
>> >
>> > On Sat, 6 Feb 2021, 00:22 Sylvain BAYA, <abscoco at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Dear Community,
>> >> Hope you are doing well!
>> >>
>> >> Le ven. 5 f?vr. 2021 14:44, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> a ?crit :
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Dear Owen,
>> >> Thanks for your email, brother.
>> >> >
>> >> > [...]
>> >>
>> >> ...what we still not know is *if* their new
>> >> justification of utilization of INRs was
>> >> explaining that they were going to start
>> >> a leasing activity with *our* INRs.
>> >
>> > This can only be answered by AFRINIC who have the capacity to check how
>> >
>>
>> Hi Noah,
>> Thanks for precising this; because my
>> questions were directed exactely to
>> those who *can* and *must* provide
>> answers to this community.
>>
>> >
>> > the space that was originally meant for a different purpose ended up
>> being
>> > used for leasing which for long this community has shed light too.
>> >
>>
>> Hi Ashil,
>> Please can you confirm that CEO & BoD
>> are taking into account the assertions [2][3][4]
>> which came from the thread i leaved [1]
>> to focus to this particular concern [5]?
>>
>> This is my request to AfriNIC's CEO or BoD:
>>
>> I call you to enforce the entire section 4.
>> of the RSA [6] to seriously address this case.
>>
>> ...IMHO, to preserve the power of its RSA,
>> AfriNIC should start to reviewing/investigating [see: RSA section 4.
>> (b)(i)]
>> [and: RSA section 4. (c)(iii)] the actual utilisation of the INRs
>> allocated to
>> that resource member.
>>
>> ~?~
>> 4. Conditions of service
>> (a) Where a member, receiving service under an existing agreement applies
>> for a change or a variation of the
>> type of such service which AFRINIC has been supplying to it, evaluation
>> of
>> such a ?change request? will be effected in
>> terms of the provisions of clause (2) of the present agreement.
>> (b) Cooperation:
>> (i) An applicant receiving service under an agreement is at all times
>> bound to provide to AFRINIC such
>> information, assistance and cooperation as may be reasonably required by
>> the latter in the provision
>> of the service.
>> (ii) Such request for information may also be made where AFRINIC is
>> investigating (reviewing) the
>> applicant?s utilisation of the number resources already assigned to it.
>> (iii) Failure by the applicant, to comply with a request made at above
>> may:
>> (1) entail revocation or withholding of the service supplied by
>> AFRINIC;
>> (2) be taken into account by AFRINIC in its evaluation for further
>> and future assignment or
>> allocation of number resources;
>> (3) lead to the closure of an LIR and termination of the agreement by
>> AFRINIC.
>> (c) Applicant?s use of the service
>> The Applicant hereby irrevocably:
>> (i) Commits itself to using the services solely for the purpose for
>> which it was requested.
>> (ii) Commits itself to using the services in full and unreserved
>> compliance with AFRINIC?s policies and
>> mandate:
>> (1) without knowingly infringing the rights and/or interests of other
>> users of such services,
>> (2) within the limits of applicable laws and/or regulations of the
>> jurisdiction in which it operates.
>> (iii) Further acknowledges that AFRINIC may at its own discretion and
>> for good cause and common
>> Interest of the stability of the Internet, investigate or cause to be
>> investigated, the Applicant?s use of
>> the services by the appropriate and competent authority(ies).
>> (iv) Hereby binds itself to:
>> (1) notify AFRINIC whenever its circumstances so change that it is no
>> longer in need of the
>> Internet number resources supplied or being supplied to it under a
>> Registration Service
>> Agreement;
>> (2) surrender to AFRINIC within 15 days of the service of the notice
>> at (iv)(1) above the Internet
>> number resources supplied or being supplied to it under a Registration
>> Service Agreement;
>> (3) update any data submitted to AFRINIC in the context of:
>> a. an application for a Registration Service Agreement or
>> b. the renewal of any Registration Service Agreement
>> whenever such data have been the subject of amendment, change or have
>> become outdated.
>> (d) AFRINIC will comply with all applicable data protection and privacy
>> laws of the Republic of Mauritius in its
>> handling of data and information submitted to it by the Applicant in
>> furtherance of an application for services
>> and use thereof.
>> ~?~
>>
>> Thanks.
>> __
>> [1]: <
>>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-February/thread.html#3891.html
>> >
>> [2]: <
>>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-February/003907.html
>> >
>> [3]: <
>>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-February/003910.html
>> >
>> [4]: <
>>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-February/003960.html
>> >
>> [5]: <
>>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-February/003912.html
>> >
>> [6]: <https://afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa>
>>
>>
>> Shalom,
>> --sb.
>>
>> >
>> > [...]
>> >
>> > Noah
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> p?p (pretty Easy privacy) - ...trying :'-(
>>
>
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From sm+af at afrinic.net  Tue Feb 23 07:14:16 2021
From: sm+af at afrinic.net (S. Moonesamy)
Date: Mon, 22 Feb 2021 23:14:16 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [Board-Discuss] Candidate for a Review on
 the Utilisation of INRs Allocated (was: Notice to all the legacy netblocks
 holders in AfriNIC)
In-Reply-To: <CAEqgTWYkYKNf+QCa7qbMP6PywXMyoDdhRuorio-POQLXzpnBSA@mail.g
 mail.com>
References: <88D2DF4C-49FA-433C-B40F-06CFD4E3653E@pretty.Easy.privacy>
 <CAEqgTWYkYKNf+QCa7qbMP6PywXMyoDdhRuorio-POQLXzpnBSA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20210222221419.0b8dfb40@elandnews.com>

Dear Noah,

The Registration Service Agreement (RSA) is an agreement between 
AFRINIC and a Resource Member.  I gather that a Resource Member would 
have taken cognizance of all the terms and conditions in the RSA and 
adopted policies as specified in the RSA.  I unfortunately cannot say 
much about a case related to a Resource Member as I would not know 
the details of the matter.

The matter which you raised relates to internal policy.  The Board 
exercises oversight over internal policies as part of a corporate 
governance practices.  There is a service at 
https://afrinic.net/whistleblowing for reporting a violation of 
AFRINIC policies.  Please feel free to use it if you, or anyone else, 
would like to report an instance of a violation of AFRINIC policies 
or standards.

Regards,
S. Moonesamy

Board Chair, AFRINIC 




From comms at afrinic.net  Tue Feb 23 18:51:24 2021
From: comms at afrinic.net (AFRINIC Communication)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 22:51:24 +0400
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Breach of the Code of Conduct by Mr Ronald
	Guilmette
Message-ID: <DCE4015A-2EBE-4F7C-A5EC-C88224AC06CA@afrinic.net>

Dear AFRINIC community members,

Mr. Ronald Guilmette has repeatedly violated the code of conduct of the AFRINIC community mailing list despite being notified of this on several occasions including the following:

On the 31st of August 2020, AFRINIC?s CEO filed a complaint against Mr. Guilmette due to the violation of Code of Conduct on the Community mailing list to the Governance Committee (Gov Com)
https://afrinic.net/ast/gc2020-04-violation-code-of-conduct.pdf
 
The complaint was later referenced in the blogpost AFRINIC published on the code of conduct: safeguarding the processes that built the Internet.  
https://afrinic.net/20200903-code-of-conduct

As a result, Mr. Guilmette was officially notified by the Gov Com of the investigation of a possible breach of the AFRINIC code of conduct to which he offered the following response.
https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2020-October/003717.html
 
We have not taken action against Mr. Guilmette till now as we are still waiting for the result of the above investigation.

However, due to the repeated personal attacks that Mr. Guilmette launches against others that may or may not be subscribed to the list, in addition to the statements, in his last email, pertaining explicitly to the Supreme Court of Mauritius that could expose him to legal actions for an offence known as ??Scandalising the Court?? and that may jeopardise AFRINIC?s position in front of the Mauritian court. 

In light of the above AFRINIC has taken action in this matter to preserve the open and inclusive nature that this community is founded upon.

Mr. Guilmette?s posts  to the community mailing list will be subject to moderation for a period of 30 days effective immediately as of 23 February 2021. 

This means:

	? Mr. Guilmette will continue to receive emails as the rest of the mailing list subscribers.
	? Mr. Guilmette?s emails to the list will be subjected to approval from the mailing list moderator to guarantee that his posts are in line with the Code of Conduct.
	? In case the moderator finds the content of the email in breach the email will be dropped and will not be forwarded to the list, otherwise Mr. Guilmette?s email will go through after review.
	? Finally Mr. Guilmette?s last post will be removed from the mailing list archives.

We rely on our community?s usual collaboration to create a healthy space for discussion where we can trust each other and hope you will endeavour to continue to promote meaningful interactions on this mailing list in line with our code of conduct in place.

Regards,

AFRINIC Communications & PR Team.


From comms at afrinic.net  Tue Feb 23 19:03:21 2021
From: comms at afrinic.net (AFRINIC Communication)
Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 23:03:21 +0400
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Breach of the Code of Conduct by Mr Ronald
	Guilmette
Message-ID: <37150312-3325-44D7-930B-A7D8AAB7977A@afrinic.net>

[Version en fran?ais]

Chers membres de la communaut? AFRINIC,

M. Ronald Guilmette a enfreint ? plusieurs reprises le code de conduite de la liste de diffusion de la communaut? AFRINIC, bien qu'il en ait ?t? inform? ? plusieurs reprises, notamment dans les cas suivants

Le 31 ao?t 2020, le DG d'AFRINIC a d?pos? une plainte contre M. Guilmette pour violation du code de conduite de la liste de diffusion communautaire aupr?s du Comit? de gouvernance (Gov Com)
https://afrinic.net/ast/gc2020-04-violation-code-of-conduct.pdf

La plainte a ensuite ?t? r?f?renc?e dans le blog d'AFRINIC publi? sur le code de conduite : sauvegarder les processus qui ont construit l'Internet.  
https://afrinic.net/20200903-code-of-conduct

En cons?quence, M. Guilmette a ?t? officiellement inform? par le Gov Com de l'enqu?te sur une possible violation du code de conduite AFRINIC ? laquelle il a apport? la r?ponse suivante.
https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2020-October/003717.html

Nous n'avons pas pris de mesures contre M. Guilmette jusqu'? pr?sent, car nous attendons toujours le r?sultat de l'enqu?te susmentionn?e.

Cependant, en raison des attaques personnelles r?p?t?es que M. Guilmette lance contre d'autres personnes, inscrites ou non sur la liste, en plus des d?clarations, dans son dernier courriel, concernant explicitement la Cour supr?me de Maurice, qui pourraient l'exposer ? des poursuites judiciaires pour un d?lit connu sous le nom de ''Scandalisation de la Cour'' et qui pourraient mettre en p?ril la position de l'AFRINIC devant la cour mauricienne. 

? la lumi?re de ce qui pr?c?de, l'AFRINIC a pris des mesures dans cette affaire pour pr?server la nature ouverte et inclusive sur laquelle cette communaut? est fond?e.

Les messages de M. Guilmette sur la liste de diffusion de la communaut? seront soumis ? une mod?ration pendant une p?riode de 30 jours ? compter du 23 f?vrier 2021. 

Cela signifie que :

	- M. Guilmette continuera ? recevoir des courriels comme le reste des abonn?s ? la liste de diffusion.
	- Les courriels de M. Guilmette ? la liste seront soumis ? l'approbation du mod?rateur de la liste de diffusion afin de garantir que ses messages sont conformes au code de conduite.
	- Si le mod?rateur estime que le contenu du courriel est contraire au code de conduite, le courriel sera supprim? et ne sera pas transmis ? la liste, sinon le courriel de M. Guilmette sera examin?.
	- Enfin, le dernier message de M. Guilmette sera supprim? des archives de la liste de diffusion.

Nous comptons sur la collaboration habituelle de notre communaut? pour cr?er un espace de discussion sain o? nous pouvons nous faire confiance et nous esp?rons que vous vous efforcerez de continuer ? promouvoir des interactions constructives sur cette liste de diffusion conform?ment ? notre code de conduite en vigueur.

Cordialement,

AFRINIC Communications & PR Team.





From ibeanusielvis at gmail.com  Tue Feb 23 23:40:04 2021
From: ibeanusielvis at gmail.com (Ibeanusi Elvis)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 08:40:04 +0900
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Candidate for a Review on the Utilisation
 of INRs Allocated (was: Notice to all the legacy netblocks holders in
 AfriNIC)
Message-ID: <D62C1043-9EC7-43DD-A9F1-A571D9EE54D8@gmail.com>

Dear Sylvain,

Using RSA to manage resources is extremely dangerous, the RSA should not contain IP management clauses and any clause inside the RSA with the intention of managing the IPs, is invalid in nature. As those clauses have never went throughthe PDP and have never been a community approved document.

IP addresses are public resources that can only be managed though the PDP. The clauses that you have pointed out are not part of the CPM but rather the RSA?which makes them invalid.
 
As some other members have pointed out earlier, the CPM is originally designed to accommodate changes - that?s the exact reason why we have allocations and assignments. The lawyers clearly do not understand this and such misunderstanding went directly to the RSA without community review.
 
Moreover, if you look closely, if AFRINIC is required to re-evaluate the space it has issued in its entire history, not only it is an impossible mission, but I believe all of its member base will disagree and be angry about it.
I don?t think any space issued in 2005 for dial up service isstill used for dial up and I don?t believe any hosting provider in 2005 operates today, with the exact same customer composition and the same time as they got the space. Businesschanges and evolves, especially in the internet space and our industry is still at infancy. It is unrealistic to ask afrinic to upkeep and manage an entire continent?s IP usage, and afrinicwasn?t designed for it in the first place.
 
On the other hand, I believe that an accurate whois update already informs AFRINIC about change of usage which also lets lets the world know the ?Whois?  who?s using the service.
As for violation of polices, CPM does define two type of violations:
1. Incorrect registration
2. Stockpiling.
 
And below I will give an exemple of an actual policy violation based on public data (see attached excel file) :
 
Seacom, a submarine cable provider without any publicallyknown individual end users base(for example FTTH customers) in 2014, was allocated /12 back then, and sincethen, in the past 7 years, it only used 39% of space range according to its assignement registration.
 
And none of its registrations are accurate, as defined by policy, an end user using more than 4 IPs must have theirname registered in their assignment, whereas seacom onlyregisters something like ?Seacom-MPT-Customer?? in which in over a million space that Seacom has, it has never done a single accurate registration.
While I understand AFRINIC can not disucss individual member?s case in this public space, here are some questions to be thought after:
(1) Why is seacom being able to carry on with incorrect registration of their customer data and none usage of their space for 7 years? 
(2) Is any internal investigation being carried out on SEACOM for policy violation of section 5.5.1.9, 5.5.1.10 and 2.6 of the CPM? If not, is that fair to other members who received review?

(3) What is the reason for allowing a submarine cable provider, despite not having any individual end users back in 2014, be issued with such large space range in which was left unused for the past 7 years?

The Afrinic Consolidated Policy Manual reference:
2.4 of CPM (Allocation)
To "allocate" means to distribute address space to LIRs for the purpose of subsequent distribution.
 
2.6 of CPM (Assignment):
An assignment is an IP address block given by an LIR to its end-users for their own usage. To ?assign? means to delegate address space to an ISP or End User for specific use within the internet infrastructure they operate. Assignments must only be made for specific purposes documented by specific organizations and are not to be sub-assigned to other parties.
5.3.2 of CPM (Registration Requirements):
All allocations, PI assignments, PA assignments, sub-allocations and other types of resource assignments will be registered in the AFRINIC database. Any unregistered resources will be considered invalid. The registration data (name, IP block/range, contacts, status, etc..) must be correct at all times. This is necessary to support network operations.
1. 5.5.1.9 of CPM (Utilisation)
Immediate utilisation of assignments should be at least 25% of the assigned space. After one year, unless special circumstances are defined, it should be at least 50%.

2. 5.2.1.4 of CPM (Conservation) :
To maximize the lifetime of the public Internet address space resource, addresses must be distributed according to actual need and on the basis of immediate use. Therefore, stockpiling of address space and maintaining reservations must, in general, be avoided.

5.5.1.10 of CPM (Reservations not supported):
End-users are not permitted to reserve address space based on long term plans. This violates the goal of conservation and fragments the address space when initial forecasts are not met. If an LIR wants to assign address space for customers, it must make the assignments from any unallocated or unassigned address space it currently holds. For the purposes evaluating allocation requests, space reserved by an LIR for other customers is considered unused.

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From sfolayan at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 08:50:50 2021
From: sfolayan at gmail.com (Sunday Folayan)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 09:50:50 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Breach of the Code of Conduct by Mr Ronald
 Guilmette
In-Reply-To: <DCE4015A-2EBE-4F7C-A5EC-C88224AC06CA@afrinic.net>
References: <DCE4015A-2EBE-4F7C-A5EC-C88224AC06CA@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <2442a851-874d-fb49-c429-8cf6d1c94deb@gmail.com>

Painful, but necessary.

In my culture, when you rent an apartment, you do not wake up each 
morning to insult your landlord.

The last time I tried to correct him on the use of a "tar brush" on 
anyone and anything when he writes, he condescended to attacking my 
faith. I thereafter chose to ignore him, as the faith I profess (indeed 
anyone's faith) is not important to the issues being discussed.

We should not be too dull, not to know how to keep intellectual bullies 
at bay.

Thank you for taking some action, and I urge the community to accept 
plenty of help, but with some level of dignity.

Sunday.

On 2/23/21 7:51 PM, AFRINIC Communication wrote:
> Dear AFRINIC community members,
>
> Mr. Ronald Guilmette has repeatedly violated the code of conduct of the AFRINIC community mailing list despite being notified of this on several occasions including the following:
>
> On the 31st of August 2020, AFRINIC?s CEO filed a complaint against Mr. Guilmette due to the violation of Code of Conduct on the Community mailing list to the Governance Committee (Gov Com)
> https://afrinic.net/ast/gc2020-04-violation-code-of-conduct.pdf
>   
> The complaint was later referenced in the blogpost AFRINIC published on the code of conduct: safeguarding the processes that built the Internet.
> https://afrinic.net/20200903-code-of-conduct
>
> As a result, Mr. Guilmette was officially notified by the Gov Com of the investigation of a possible breach of the AFRINIC code of conduct to which he offered the following response.
> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2020-October/003717.html
>   
> We have not taken action against Mr. Guilmette till now as we are still waiting for the result of the above investigation.
>
> However, due to the repeated personal attacks that Mr. Guilmette launches against others that may or may not be subscribed to the list, in addition to the statements, in his last email, pertaining explicitly to the Supreme Court of Mauritius that could expose him to legal actions for an offence known as ??Scandalising the Court?? and that may jeopardise AFRINIC?s position in front of the Mauritian court.
>
> In light of the above AFRINIC has taken action in this matter to preserve the open and inclusive nature that this community is founded upon.
>
> Mr. Guilmette?s posts  to the community mailing list will be subject to moderation for a period of 30 days effective immediately as of 23 February 2021.
>
> This means:
>
> 	? Mr. Guilmette will continue to receive emails as the rest of the mailing list subscribers.
> 	? Mr. Guilmette?s emails to the list will be subjected to approval from the mailing list moderator to guarantee that his posts are in line with the Code of Conduct.
> 	? In case the moderator finds the content of the email in breach the email will be dropped and will not be forwarded to the list, otherwise Mr. Guilmette?s email will go through after review.
> 	? Finally Mr. Guilmette?s last post will be removed from the mailing list archives.
>
> We rely on our community?s usual collaboration to create a healthy space for discussion where we can trust each other and hope you will endeavour to continue to promote meaningful interactions on this mailing list in line with our code of conduct in place.
>
> Regards,
>
> AFRINIC Communications & PR Team.
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

-- 
--------------------------------------------------
Sunday Adekunle Folayan
Managing Director
General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
---------------------------------------------------




From jordi.palet at consulintel.es  Wed Feb 24 09:49:35 2021
From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 10:49:35 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Breach of the Code of Conduct by Mr Ronald
 Guilmette
In-Reply-To: <2442a851-874d-fb49-c429-8cf6d1c94deb@gmail.com>
References: <DCE4015A-2EBE-4F7C-A5EC-C88224AC06CA@afrinic.net>
 <2442a851-874d-fb49-c429-8cf6d1c94deb@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1526AB54-5720-4D1E-87E2-534844E239B4@consulintel.es>

Hi Sunday, all,

While I understand your point, we also need to understand that the Internet communities are multicultural and we should not ban someone because is language is not up to anyone local culture.

I fully agree that sometimes, the way some of us (and I'm including myself here) speak in mails may look offensive, but is not necessarily the intend (with the exceptions of very clear "ad hominem"). I may look sometimes very "abrupt" in my emails, and is not an attack to anyone, is our different way to speak and express, what should matter is the real intent: not just complaining about the problems or issues that affect this community but also trying to make our best to resolve them, and if that means thinking loud, without a clear personal attack to anyone, it must be just fine.

Note that I'm not defending Ron here, I know him just because email exchange and we had once a skype chat, if I recall correctly, so I know him even less than many folks that we met often in AFRINIC or other RIR meetings.

I'm speaking "in general", and for that, I'm using also my previous experience as almost 12 years as sergeant-at-arms in IETF (RFC3005), when I needed to take difficult decisions with several people across those years, and always trying to understand their own cultural backgrounds.

Now, speaking about this specific action. There is something called freedom of expression. If someone believes that a Court, never mind is a Court, is making things wrong, it is perfectly licit to say it with total freedom. If the Court believes that that person is acting against the Court, is up to the Court to take actions against that person, not this community. As Sunday said, if you don't like that way of expressing himself, you can just ignore his emails.

Because it is clear everywhere that the comment about the Court is from Ron, and not anyone else, and even less from AFRINIC, the Court can't take any actions against AFRINIC and if that happens, even if we only suspect that is happening, then AFRINIC will be better established in another country that respects our open and transparent culture, because we can't "live" in a country with Courts that may be taking arbitrary decisions or based in personal comments from others. Even more, if that's the case, then the mailing list can be just hosted somewhere else and maintained by a more neutral organization, in a more neutral country. There are many options here.

With all the respect, in my opinion this consideration from the Communications and PR Team is beyond their scope and totally exaggerated. To be clear, I'm talking about the specific paragraph about the Mauritius Court.

Just as an example, if we discuss in the list and criticize the Mauritius Government if the cut Internet for political reasons, should be that disallowed and censored in the list? What if it happens with any other Government in Africa or in any other side of the world, affecting this community? Can you see how ridiculous is doing that in our open and transparent context?  

Moreover, removing any posting from the mailing list archives is a clear attack to this community. This is called censorship. If AFRINIC, as an organization, is providing the service, it must be an open and transparent service, and that includes not making any kind of censorship.

Moderating someone for a specific time, because he is committing "ad hominem", is fine and necessary in my opinion, but not censorship. Otherwise, we are not any longer respecting the open and transparent community that we are supporting and voicing over all the time "we allow you to say whatever you want, but if that's not good in our perspective, we will delete it". Is that making sense?

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
 
 

?El 24/2/21 9:55, "Sunday Folayan" <sfolayan at gmail.com> escribi?:

    Painful, but necessary.

    In my culture, when you rent an apartment, you do not wake up each 
    morning to insult your landlord.

    The last time I tried to correct him on the use of a "tar brush" on 
    anyone and anything when he writes, he condescended to attacking my 
    faith. I thereafter chose to ignore him, as the faith I profess (indeed 
    anyone's faith) is not important to the issues being discussed.

    We should not be too dull, not to know how to keep intellectual bullies 
    at bay.

    Thank you for taking some action, and I urge the community to accept 
    plenty of help, but with some level of dignity.

    Sunday.

    On 2/23/21 7:51 PM, AFRINIC Communication wrote:
    > Dear AFRINIC community members,
    >
    > Mr. Ronald Guilmette has repeatedly violated the code of conduct of the AFRINIC community mailing list despite being notified of this on several occasions including the following:
    >
    > On the 31st of August 2020, AFRINIC?s CEO filed a complaint against Mr. Guilmette due to the violation of Code of Conduct on the Community mailing list to the Governance Committee (Gov Com)
    > https://afrinic.net/ast/gc2020-04-violation-code-of-conduct.pdf
    >   
    > The complaint was later referenced in the blogpost AFRINIC published on the code of conduct: safeguarding the processes that built the Internet.
    > https://afrinic.net/20200903-code-of-conduct
    >
    > As a result, Mr. Guilmette was officially notified by the Gov Com of the investigation of a possible breach of the AFRINIC code of conduct to which he offered the following response.
    > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2020-October/003717.html
    >   
    > We have not taken action against Mr. Guilmette till now as we are still waiting for the result of the above investigation.
    >
    > However, due to the repeated personal attacks that Mr. Guilmette launches against others that may or may not be subscribed to the list, in addition to the statements, in his last email, pertaining explicitly to the Supreme Court of Mauritius that could expose him to legal actions for an offence known as ??Scandalising the Court?? and that may jeopardise AFRINIC?s position in front of the Mauritian court.
    >
    > In light of the above AFRINIC has taken action in this matter to preserve the open and inclusive nature that this community is founded upon.
    >
    > Mr. Guilmette?s posts  to the community mailing list will be subject to moderation for a period of 30 days effective immediately as of 23 February 2021.
    >
    > This means:
    >
    > 	? Mr. Guilmette will continue to receive emails as the rest of the mailing list subscribers.
    > 	? Mr. Guilmette?s emails to the list will be subjected to approval from the mailing list moderator to guarantee that his posts are in line with the Code of Conduct.
    > 	? In case the moderator finds the content of the email in breach the email will be dropped and will not be forwarded to the list, otherwise Mr. Guilmette?s email will go through after review.
    > 	? Finally Mr. Guilmette?s last post will be removed from the mailing list archives.
    >
    > We rely on our community?s usual collaboration to create a healthy space for discussion where we can trust each other and hope you will endeavour to continue to promote meaningful interactions on this mailing list in line with our code of conduct in place.
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > AFRINIC Communications & PR Team.
    > _______________________________________________
    > Community-Discuss mailing list
    > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
    > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

    -- 
    --------------------------------------------------
    Sunday Adekunle Folayan
    Managing Director
    General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
    16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
    Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
    Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
    ---------------------------------------------------


    _______________________________________________
    Community-Discuss mailing list
    Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
    https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss



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From comms at afrinic.net  Wed Feb 24 10:05:06 2021
From: comms at afrinic.net (AFRINIC Communication)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 14:05:06 +0400
Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Participate_in_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_we?=
 =?utf-8?q?binar_on__=E2=80=9CPublic_Persecution_vs=2E_Constructive_Critic?=
 =?utf-8?q?ism_on_AFRINIC_mailing_lists=E2=80=9D?=
Message-ID: <7A752790-4F90-4189-9CCF-3C6167F44C67@afrinic.net>

Dear Community members, 

AFRINIC would  like to invite you to an upcoming webinar to consult with its community on the topic of ??Public Persecution vs. Constructive Criticism on AFRINIC mailing lists?, scheduled on Thursday 4 March 2021.

After several concerns raised from community members on the virulence of exchanges on AFRINIC mailing lists, AFRINIC had to make very difficult decisions regarding how to best apply the community code of conduct to the public mailing lists in an attempt to safeguard the community from being subject to these inappropriate behaviours while allowing people to express thoughts and critics freely. https://afrinic.net/code

AFRINIC does not take such decisions lightly and is in need of guidance from the community on the best way moving forward on dealing with the cases that clearly mix public harassment with useful feedback. 

Community members are invited to discuss measures to foster a safe and all-inclusive environment where community members, volunteers as well as AFRINIC staff feel supported and comfortable serving this community and exchanging ideas without the fear of being publicly harassed and personally attacked.

It is key that we as a community have clear guidelines that allow us to prevent constructive criticism from turning into public persecution and slander. This is key to the creation of a safe and dynamic environment where opinions and ideas can flow freely and openly without fear of attack.,


Time: 

    ? 10:00 - 12:00  UTC (Ghana, C?te D'Ivoire)
    ? 11:00 - 13:00 UTC WAT (Nigeria, Cameroon)
    ? 14:00 - 16:00 UTC SAST (South Africa, Eswatini, Lesotho)
    ? 15:00 - 17:00 UTC EAT (Kenya, Uganda)
    ? 16:00 - 18:00 GST (Mauritius, Seychelles)

Language: English 

Target: AFRINIC community members and any other person interested in how AFRINIC manages mailing lists

Register in advance for this meeting:
https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZwpduquqjkvE9Zjjv74MC33wGJHRcea2nRV

After registering, you will receive a confirmation email containing information about joining the meeting.

AFRINIC Stakeholder Engagement Team


From silber.mike at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 10:27:08 2021
From: silber.mike at gmail.com (Mike Silber)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 12:27:08 +0200
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Breach of the Code of Conduct by Mr Ronald
 Guilmette
In-Reply-To: <1526AB54-5720-4D1E-87E2-534844E239B4@consulintel.es>
References: <DCE4015A-2EBE-4F7C-A5EC-C88224AC06CA@afrinic.net>
 <2442a851-874d-fb49-c429-8cf6d1c94deb@gmail.com>
 <1526AB54-5720-4D1E-87E2-534844E239B4@consulintel.es>
Message-ID: <09E79F9C-9FFF-4B15-B197-725BBE91CCEF@gmail.com>

Hi Jordi

Trying to be objective here.


> On 24 Feb 2021, at 11:49, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss <community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote:


> 
> Because it is clear everywhere that the comment about the Court is from Ron, and not anyone else, and even less from AFRINIC, the Court can't take any actions against AFRINIC and if that happens, even if we only suspect that is happening, then AFRINIC will be better established in another country that respects our open and transparent culture, because we can't "live" in a country with Courts that may be taking arbitrary decisions or based in personal comments from others. Even more, if that's the case, then the mailing list can be just hosted somewhere else and maintained by a more neutral organization, in a more neutral country. There are many options here.
> 
> With all the respect, in my opinion this consideration from the Communications and PR Team is beyond their scope and totally exaggerated. To be clear, I'm talking about the specific paragraph about the Mauritius Court.
> 
AfriNIC is domiciled in Mauritius and a party to a case before the Mauritian High Court.

The comments made and published on an AfriNIC mailing list expose AfriNIC to significant risk and potential liability.

A response was required and justified. I am just not sure that the specific response was correct.

Hopefully moderation will not dampen Ron?s enthusiasm, just temper his language.

Mike




From jordi.palet at consulintel.es  Wed Feb 24 10:36:32 2021
From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 11:36:32 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Breach of the Code of Conduct by Mr Ronald
 Guilmette
In-Reply-To: <09E79F9C-9FFF-4B15-B197-725BBE91CCEF@gmail.com>
References: <DCE4015A-2EBE-4F7C-A5EC-C88224AC06CA@afrinic.net>
 <2442a851-874d-fb49-c429-8cf6d1c94deb@gmail.com>
 <1526AB54-5720-4D1E-87E2-534844E239B4@consulintel.es>
 <09E79F9C-9FFF-4B15-B197-725BBE91CCEF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <59914541-D937-4C2C-B179-43C6FE046E73@consulintel.es>

Hi Mike,

I'm fully aware of that, but is not AFRINIC who is making those comments, neither the staff, or the Board.

It is an individual, not legally bound to AFRINIC (organization).

If there is any remote chance that the Mauritius Courts take that to influence their decision or make AFRINIC liable, then *definitively* Mauritius is the wrong place to establish a RIR. I'm not saying this is that case, but if the staff believes so, then we have a big problem.

Note that Ron (or anyone) can make the same or worst criticism to the Mauritius Courts, and do it outside of AFRINIC mailing list, but still visible for the courts, and still citing AFRINIC, etc., etc. That's not making *any* difference versus doing it in the community-discuss mailing list.

There are two aspects here: moderation, which seems to be decided based on continuous untampered language, and I may agree with that, up to a certain point AND censorship of the message. This is ABSOLUTELY UNNAPROPRIATE for any RIR to do so. The community need to think about that, and we must decide if we want to keep trusting AFRINIC for holding our discussion mailing lists. What may be the next censored message?

Do we want our discussions to be censored at all?

Note also that censoring is bad in case somebody is committing any illegal action and it is visible in the list, because then you may not be able use the list as a demonstration for that.

All our discussions, if we keep the neutral, open and transparent "tagging", MUST BE ARCHIVED AND NEVER CENSORED.

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
 
 

?El 24/2/21 11:27, "Mike Silber" <silber.mike at gmail.com> escribi?:

    Hi Jordi

    Trying to be objective here.


    > On 24 Feb 2021, at 11:49, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss <community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote:


    > 
    > Because it is clear everywhere that the comment about the Court is from Ron, and not anyone else, and even less from AFRINIC, the Court can't take any actions against AFRINIC and if that happens, even if we only suspect that is happening, then AFRINIC will be better established in another country that respects our open and transparent culture, because we can't "live" in a country with Courts that may be taking arbitrary decisions or based in personal comments from others. Even more, if that's the case, then the mailing list can be just hosted somewhere else and maintained by a more neutral organization, in a more neutral country. There are many options here.
    > 
    > With all the respect, in my opinion this consideration from the Communications and PR Team is beyond their scope and totally exaggerated. To be clear, I'm talking about the specific paragraph about the Mauritius Court.
    > 
    AfriNIC is domiciled in Mauritius and a party to a case before the Mauritian High Court.

    The comments made and published on an AfriNIC mailing list expose AfriNIC to significant risk and potential liability.

    A response was required and justified. I am just not sure that the specific response was correct.

    Hopefully moderation will not dampen Ron?s enthusiasm, just temper his language.

    Mike




**********************************************
IPv4 is over
Are you ready for the new Internet ?
http://www.theipv6company.com
The IPv6 Company

This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.






From sfolayan at gmail.com  Wed Feb 24 10:52:46 2021
From: sfolayan at gmail.com (Sunday Folayan)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 11:52:46 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Breach of the Code of Conduct by Mr Ronald
 Guilmette
In-Reply-To: <59914541-D937-4C2C-B179-43C6FE046E73@consulintel.es>
References: <DCE4015A-2EBE-4F7C-A5EC-C88224AC06CA@afrinic.net>
 <2442a851-874d-fb49-c429-8cf6d1c94deb@gmail.com>
 <1526AB54-5720-4D1E-87E2-534844E239B4@consulintel.es>
 <09E79F9C-9FFF-4B15-B197-725BBE91CCEF@gmail.com>
 <59914541-D937-4C2C-B179-43C6FE046E73@consulintel.es>
Message-ID: <4079e4d0-ada5-1461-9d3b-b11e020fa6ce@gmail.com>

Jordi, Mike and the Community,

I do not agree with removing what has been posted. Any discerning and 
objective mind can follow the thread.

I am in support of moderation, as a means of ensuring that the community 
mailing list stays useful and does not spiral out of control.

I think it was Pirelli (the Tyre maker) that said ... "Power is nothing, 
without Control".

We all have the right grammatical constructs to seed "appropriate 
mis-behavior" in others, but we also understand that discretion is the 
greater part of valor.

Sunday.

On 2/24/21 11:36 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote:
> Hi Mike,
>
> I'm fully aware of that, but is not AFRINIC who is making those comments, neither the staff, or the Board.
>
> It is an individual, not legally bound to AFRINIC (organization).
>
> If there is any remote chance that the Mauritius Courts take that to influence their decision or make AFRINIC liable, then *definitively* Mauritius is the wrong place to establish a RIR. I'm not saying this is that case, but if the staff believes so, then we have a big problem.
>
> Note that Ron (or anyone) can make the same or worst criticism to the Mauritius Courts, and do it outside of AFRINIC mailing list, but still visible for the courts, and still citing AFRINIC, etc., etc. That's not making *any* difference versus doing it in the community-discuss mailing list.
>
> There are two aspects here: moderation, which seems to be decided based on continuous untampered language, and I may agree with that, up to a certain point AND censorship of the message. This is ABSOLUTELY UNNAPROPRIATE for any RIR to do so. The community need to think about that, and we must decide if we want to keep trusting AFRINIC for holding our discussion mailing lists. What may be the next censored message?
>
> Do we want our discussions to be censored at all?
>
> Note also that censoring is bad in case somebody is committing any illegal action and it is visible in the list, because then you may not be able use the list as a demonstration for that.
>
> All our discussions, if we keep the neutral, open and transparent "tagging", MUST BE ARCHIVED AND NEVER CENSORED.
>
> Regards,
> Jordi
> @jordipalet
>   
>   
>
> ?El 24/2/21 11:27, "Mike Silber" <silber.mike at gmail.com> escribi?:
>
>      Hi Jordi
>
>      Trying to be objective here.
>
>
>      > On 24 Feb 2021, at 11:49, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss <community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote:
>
>
>      >
>      > Because it is clear everywhere that the comment about the Court is from Ron, and not anyone else, and even less from AFRINIC, the Court can't take any actions against AFRINIC and if that happens, even if we only suspect that is happening, then AFRINIC will be better established in another country that respects our open and transparent culture, because we can't "live" in a country with Courts that may be taking arbitrary decisions or based in personal comments from others. Even more, if that's the case, then the mailing list can be just hosted somewhere else and maintained by a more neutral organization, in a more neutral country. There are many options here.
>      >
>      > With all the respect, in my opinion this consideration from the Communications and PR Team is beyond their scope and totally exaggerated. To be clear, I'm talking about the specific paragraph about the Mauritius Court.
>      >
>      AfriNIC is domiciled in Mauritius and a party to a case before the Mauritian High Court.
>
>      The comments made and published on an AfriNIC mailing list expose AfriNIC to significant risk and potential liability.
>
>      A response was required and justified. I am just not sure that the specific response was correct.
>
>      Hopefully moderation will not dampen Ron?s enthusiasm, just temper his language.
>
>      Mike
>
>
>
>
> **********************************************
> IPv4 is over
> Are you ready for the new Internet ?
> http://www.theipv6company.com
> The IPv6 Company
>
> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

-- 
--------------------------------------------------
Sunday Adekunle Folayan
Managing Director
General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
---------------------------------------------------




From comms at afrinic.net  Wed Feb 24 13:31:39 2021
From: comms at afrinic.net (AFRINIC Communication)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 17:31:39 +0400
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Reminder: Call for Public Comments on the 2020
 IANA Performance Matrix Summary Report
Message-ID: <3B271390-4091-4430-B302-5212851F001A@afrinic.net>

[Sent on behalf of the IANA Numbering Services Review Committee]

Dear colleagues,

This is a reminder that the IANA Review Committee (IANA RC)<https://www.nro.net/iana-rc> <https://www.nro.net/iana-rc> has launched a public comment period of 30 days, seeking comments and input from the community on the IANA numbering services performance and the 2020 IANA Performance Matrix Summary Report.<https://www.nro.net/2020-RIR-IANA-summary-report> <https://www.nro.net/2020-RIR-IANA-summary-report>

Some background: 
As a result of the successful IANA Stewardship transition in 2016<https://www.nro.net/stewardship-transition-archive/> <https://www.nro.net/stewardship-transition-archive/>, the IANA Numbering Services are now being managed through an SLA <https://www.nro.net/sla> <https://www.nro.net/sla>between ICANN and the five Regional Internet Registries (RIRs).

As part of the result of the IANA Stewardship transition, the IANA RC was established in 2016. The IANA RC is composed of representatives from each RIR region and advises and assists the RIRs in the review of the IANA Numbering Services.

The IANA services are today provided by Public Technical Identifiers (PTI), which publishes monthly performance reports on the IANA Numbering Services.<https://www.iana.org/performance/numbers> <https://www.iana.org/performance/numbers>

Based on these monthly performance reports, the five RIRs have produced the 2020 IANA Performance Matrix Summary Report. <https://www.nro.net/2020-RIR-IANA-summary-report> <https://www.nro.net/2020-RIR-IANA-summary-report>

The IANA RC encourages all members of the Internet number community to review the public IANA Performance Matrix Summary Report.

Comments on the IANA service performance should be sent to: iana-performance [at] nro [dot] net.

The IANA RC will publish an annual report in March 2021, as advice to the NRO EC with its evaluation of the IANA Numbering services. The report will be based on the IANA Performance Matrix Summary Report, as well as any input gathered on the performance from the global number community.

The public comment period ends on Friday, 5 March 2021 at 23:59 UTC.

All public comments will be published on the NRO Website in the dedicated IANA RC section <https://www.nro.net/iana-rc-reports> <https://www.nro.net/iana-rc-reports>, and will be considered as input to the final report by IANA. At the end of the 30-day public comment period, the IANA RC will meet and evaluate all input to the final report.

The final IANA RC 2020 Report will be published at <https://www.nro.net/iana-rc-reports> <https://www.nro.net/iana-rc-reports>

Kind regards,

Bertrand Cherrier
Chair, IANA Numbering Services Review Committee

Further Information

IANA Numbering Services Review Committee <https://www.nro.net/iana-rc> <https://www.nro.net/iana-rc>
Public Technical Identifiers (PTI) <https://pti.icann.org/> <https://pti.icann.org/>
IANA Stewardship Transition Archive <https://www.nro.net/internet-governance/iana/iana-stewardship-transition/> <https://www.nro.net/internet-governance/iana/iana-stewardship-transition/>
The SLA for the IANA Numbering Services <https://www.nro.net/sla> <https://www.nro.net/sla>
IANA Stewardship Transition Number Community Proposal<https://www.nro.net/crisp-final-proposal> <https://www.nro.net/crisp-final-proposal>
IANA RC Report 2019 <https://www.nro.net/iana-rc-report-2019> <https://www.nro.net/iana-rc-report-2019>
IANA RC Report 2018 <https://www.nro.net/iana-rc-report-2018> <https://www.nro.net/iana-rc-report-2018>
IANA RC Report 2017 <https://www.nro.net/iana-rc-report-2017> <https://www.nro.net/iana-rc-report-2017>
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From rfg at tristatelogic.com  Wed Feb 24 21:44:16 2021
From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2021 13:44:16 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Breach of the Code of Conduct by Mr Ronald
	Guilmette
In-Reply-To: <1526AB54-5720-4D1E-87E2-534844E239B4@consulintel.es>
Message-ID: <37347.1614203056@segfault.tristatelogic.com>

In message <1526AB54-5720-4D1E-87E2-534844E239B4 at consulintel.es>, 
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es> wrote:

>Moreover, removing any posting from the mailing list archives is a clear
>attack to this community. This is called censorship. If AFRINIC, as an
>organization, is providing the service, it must be an open and transparent
>service, and that includes not making any kind of censorship.

I thank both Jordi and Mike Silber for their kind and constructive
comments.

I wish to say also that I personally am OK with having my prior
posting here scrubbed from the mailing list archives.  I understand
that there is some concern, well placed or not, within AFRINIC that
some of my comments may reflect badly on the organization itself and
might possibly have some effect on either the already ongoing litigation
or on potential future litigation... and I most certainly would not 
desire anything that I have said, as a private citizen, to have any
negative effect upon AFRINIC's legal position.

After being duly informed that further contributions from me would be
moderated for a period of 30 days, I did some reading on this topic
of this legal offense known as "Scandalizing the Court".  I had to
educate myself about that, because we quite certainly have nothing
even remotely like that here in the U.S.

What I learned, among other things, is that such an offense continued
to exist, in England, Whales, and Scotland, until really quite recently,
i.e. the 2012-2013 time frame, but that since that time it has been 
abolished in those judicial systems.  I also learned that this offense
continues to exist within many Commonwealth countries, apparently
including Mauritius.

It is not for me to opine on the question of whether my prior comments
do or do not satisfy all of the various legal elements of the crime of
"Scandalizing the Court", specifically as that crime is defined within
the legal system of Mauritius.  That question is most certainly not
within my area of expertise.  I would only offer the suggestion that
my prior comments may possibly not rise to the level of satisfying the
legal definition of that crime, and that even if they did, I would most
certainly plead for some mitigation and leniency at my sentencing,
based upon my ignorance of local law in this instance.  (And in any
event, as should be obvious, I cannot say that I am particularly worried
that Mauritian authorities would seek to have me extradited from the
U.S. to Mauritius, to face Mauritian justice for this particular crime,
and even if that remote possibility suddenly became probable, I might
simply choose to relocate myself to some national jurisdiction that
appears to be immune, at present, to such inter-national extradition
proceedings, e.g. someplace that appears on maps just to the left of
Kenya.)

With regards to my prior comments about individuals, I do apologize to
the community if any of these might have any effect on AFRINIC's legal
position.  It is my hope and belief that they should not and will not.
I speak only for myself.  Furthermore, I am quite certainly subject to
potential legal proceedings (e.g. for defamation) here in the United
States of America... by far the most litigious country on earth...  and
I am thus cautious in what I say and how I say it.  I have said no more
about individuals than I believe could be justified in open court, based
upon persuasive and abundant available hard evidence, much of which I have
already shared here.

Nontheless, I ask forgiveness from the community for my often intemperate
manner of speech, forgiveness which I hope will be forthcoming, given the
totality of the context.

I have sought, for well more than a year and a half now, simply to know
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, at least with
respect to the corruption of the WHOIS data base.  Given this clear and
abiding quest, who among you can still be entirely unsympathetic to the
frustration that I feel, to still not know, even at this late date,
either how the data base came to be corrupted, or any of the particulars
about the one bit of actual litigation that has arisen from those still-
mysterious events.  My cup runneth over with a lack of information, and
after such an extended period of time in this state, I ask to be excused
for my more than ordinary lack of both temperance and patience.

That having been said, I accept without reservation the actions taken
in response to my recent comments, including both the removal of 
inflamatory (and perhaps prejuduicial) postings of mine from the archives
as well as a 30-day moderation period.  I take no personal offense at
these actions, and they seem to me to be commensurate and proportional
responses.  I say this knowing, as I do, that as a citizen of the
United States, I am generally free to be more vocal in my defense of
AFRINIC and its interests, against both foreign interlopers and any
possible lethargy on the part of the local judiciary than AFRINIC
itself could prudently be.  I only hope that my unconstrained opinions
will be properly attributed to me alone.  If AFRINIC finds it either
necessary or convenient to take actions to further clarify the crisp
dividing line between itself and me, then I am perfectly OK with that.

Regards,
rfg



From sfolayan at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 08:28:35 2021
From: sfolayan at gmail.com (Sunday Folayan)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 09:28:35 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Breach of the Code of Conduct by Mr Ronald
 Guilmette
In-Reply-To: <37347.1614203056@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
References: <37347.1614203056@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
Message-ID: <ce403711-a2ed-758a-63eb-78a0caa847ab@gmail.com>

Hello Ron and the Community,

Thank you very much for your message and the accommodating tone.

I Also want to apologize to you and everyone, if there is any way I may 
have sounded offensive in the past. Please forgive.

I believe the objective is to correct and make the forum useful and less 
toxic, over and above punishment. I am sure with posts that seek the 
common good, those restrictions will be eased off and hopefully, 
soonest. We all want the truth, because that is the only thing that will 
bring advancement.

I here state again, that I am not in agreement with the removal of 
previous posts from the archives.

Sunday.

On 2/24/21 10:44 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> In message <1526AB54-5720-4D1E-87E2-534844E239B4 at consulintel.es>,
> JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es> wrote:
>
>> Moreover, removing any posting from the mailing list archives is a clear
>> attack to this community. This is called censorship. If AFRINIC, as an
>> organization, is providing the service, it must be an open and transparent
>> service, and that includes not making any kind of censorship.
> I thank both Jordi and Mike Silber for their kind and constructive
> comments.
>
> I wish to say also that I personally am OK with having my prior
> posting here scrubbed from the mailing list archives.  I understand
> that there is some concern, well placed or not, within AFRINIC that
> some of my comments may reflect badly on the organization itself and
> might possibly have some effect on either the already ongoing litigation
> or on potential future litigation... and I most certainly would not
> desire anything that I have said, as a private citizen, to have any
> negative effect upon AFRINIC's legal position.
>
> After being duly informed that further contributions from me would be
> moderated for a period of 30 days, I did some reading on this topic
> of this legal offense known as "Scandalizing the Court".  I had to
> educate myself about that, because we quite certainly have nothing
> even remotely like that here in the U.S.
>
> What I learned, among other things, is that such an offense continued
> to exist, in England, Whales, and Scotland, until really quite recently,
> i.e. the 2012-2013 time frame, but that since that time it has been
> abolished in those judicial systems.  I also learned that this offense
> continues to exist within many Commonwealth countries, apparently
> including Mauritius.
>
> It is not for me to opine on the question of whether my prior comments
> do or do not satisfy all of the various legal elements of the crime of
> "Scandalizing the Court", specifically as that crime is defined within
> the legal system of Mauritius.  That question is most certainly not
> within my area of expertise.  I would only offer the suggestion that
> my prior comments may possibly not rise to the level of satisfying the
> legal definition of that crime, and that even if they did, I would most
> certainly plead for some mitigation and leniency at my sentencing,
> based upon my ignorance of local law in this instance.  (And in any
> event, as should be obvious, I cannot say that I am particularly worried
> that Mauritian authorities would seek to have me extradited from the
> U.S. to Mauritius, to face Mauritian justice for this particular crime,
> and even if that remote possibility suddenly became probable, I might
> simply choose to relocate myself to some national jurisdiction that
> appears to be immune, at present, to such inter-national extradition
> proceedings, e.g. someplace that appears on maps just to the left of
> Kenya.)
>
> With regards to my prior comments about individuals, I do apologize to
> the community if any of these might have any effect on AFRINIC's legal
> position.  It is my hope and belief that they should not and will not.
> I speak only for myself.  Furthermore, I am quite certainly subject to
> potential legal proceedings (e.g. for defamation) here in the United
> States of America... by far the most litigious country on earth...  and
> I am thus cautious in what I say and how I say it.  I have said no more
> about individuals than I believe could be justified in open court, based
> upon persuasive and abundant available hard evidence, much of which I have
> already shared here.
>
> Nontheless, I ask forgiveness from the community for my often intemperate
> manner of speech, forgiveness which I hope will be forthcoming, given the
> totality of the context.
>
> I have sought, for well more than a year and a half now, simply to know
> the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, at least with
> respect to the corruption of the WHOIS data base.  Given this clear and
> abiding quest, who among you can still be entirely unsympathetic to the
> frustration that I feel, to still not know, even at this late date,
> either how the data base came to be corrupted, or any of the particulars
> about the one bit of actual litigation that has arisen from those still-
> mysterious events.  My cup runneth over with a lack of information, and
> after such an extended period of time in this state, I ask to be excused
> for my more than ordinary lack of both temperance and patience.
>
> That having been said, I accept without reservation the actions taken
> in response to my recent comments, including both the removal of
> inflamatory (and perhaps prejuduicial) postings of mine from the archives
> as well as a 30-day moderation period.  I take no personal offense at
> these actions, and they seem to me to be commensurate and proportional
> responses.  I say this knowing, as I do, that as a citizen of the
> United States, I am generally free to be more vocal in my defense of
> AFRINIC and its interests, against both foreign interlopers and any
> possible lethargy on the part of the local judiciary than AFRINIC
> itself could prudently be.  I only hope that my unconstrained opinions
> will be properly attributed to me alone.  If AFRINIC finds it either
> necessary or convenient to take actions to further clarify the crisp
> dividing line between itself and me, then I am perfectly OK with that.
>
> Regards,
> rfg
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

-- 
--------------------------------------------------
Sunday Adekunle Folayan
Managing Director
General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
---------------------------------------------------




From jordi.palet at consulintel.es  Thu Feb 25 08:35:13 2021
From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 09:35:13 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Breach of the Code of Conduct by Mr Ronald
 Guilmette
In-Reply-To: <37347.1614203056@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
References: <1526AB54-5720-4D1E-87E2-534844E239B4@consulintel.es>
 <37347.1614203056@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
Message-ID: <673045AD-D320-4CD9-8D9D-3299A92C83F7@consulintel.es>

Hi Ronald,

The point is not that you agree with the removal of the message. The point is that it is censorship, and this community should not allow it, because then it means in the future anything else could be removed.

This list is not to "satisfy" crazy laws in any country, whatever is the country.

None of the RIRs communities are subjected to the laws of any country which imply restricting freedom of expression, and if we have the risk of being in that situation in any RIR, then that RIR should be away from that country.

If I need to criticize the rules of Mauritius because they are outdated and illogic and restrict freedom of expression, then AFRINIC will need to censor me, then I will litigate with AFRINIC, no doubt on that and I will keep continue criticizing whatever I believe is wrong from blogs, articles, newspapers, or whatever is in my hand.

As a consequence, it is totally ridiculous that AFRINIC tries to censor anyone, and we must not accept it.

Regards,
Jordi
@jordipalet
 
 

?El 25/2/21 8:56, "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com> escribi?:

    In message <1526AB54-5720-4D1E-87E2-534844E239B4 at consulintel.es>, 
    JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es> wrote:

    >Moreover, removing any posting from the mailing list archives is a clear
    >attack to this community. This is called censorship. If AFRINIC, as an
    >organization, is providing the service, it must be an open and transparent
    >service, and that includes not making any kind of censorship.

    I thank both Jordi and Mike Silber for their kind and constructive
    comments.

    I wish to say also that I personally am OK with having my prior
    posting here scrubbed from the mailing list archives.  I understand
    that there is some concern, well placed or not, within AFRINIC that
    some of my comments may reflect badly on the organization itself and
    might possibly have some effect on either the already ongoing litigation
    or on potential future litigation... and I most certainly would not 
    desire anything that I have said, as a private citizen, to have any
    negative effect upon AFRINIC's legal position.

    After being duly informed that further contributions from me would be
    moderated for a period of 30 days, I did some reading on this topic
    of this legal offense known as "Scandalizing the Court".  I had to
    educate myself about that, because we quite certainly have nothing
    even remotely like that here in the U.S.

    What I learned, among other things, is that such an offense continued
    to exist, in England, Whales, and Scotland, until really quite recently,
    i.e. the 2012-2013 time frame, but that since that time it has been 
    abolished in those judicial systems.  I also learned that this offense
    continues to exist within many Commonwealth countries, apparently
    including Mauritius.

    It is not for me to opine on the question of whether my prior comments
    do or do not satisfy all of the various legal elements of the crime of
    "Scandalizing the Court", specifically as that crime is defined within
    the legal system of Mauritius.  That question is most certainly not
    within my area of expertise.  I would only offer the suggestion that
    my prior comments may possibly not rise to the level of satisfying the
    legal definition of that crime, and that even if they did, I would most
    certainly plead for some mitigation and leniency at my sentencing,
    based upon my ignorance of local law in this instance.  (And in any
    event, as should be obvious, I cannot say that I am particularly worried
    that Mauritian authorities would seek to have me extradited from the
    U.S. to Mauritius, to face Mauritian justice for this particular crime,
    and even if that remote possibility suddenly became probable, I might
    simply choose to relocate myself to some national jurisdiction that
    appears to be immune, at present, to such inter-national extradition
    proceedings, e.g. someplace that appears on maps just to the left of
    Kenya.)

    With regards to my prior comments about individuals, I do apologize to
    the community if any of these might have any effect on AFRINIC's legal
    position.  It is my hope and belief that they should not and will not.
    I speak only for myself.  Furthermore, I am quite certainly subject to
    potential legal proceedings (e.g. for defamation) here in the United
    States of America... by far the most litigious country on earth...  and
    I am thus cautious in what I say and how I say it.  I have said no more
    about individuals than I believe could be justified in open court, based
    upon persuasive and abundant available hard evidence, much of which I have
    already shared here.

    Nontheless, I ask forgiveness from the community for my often intemperate
    manner of speech, forgiveness which I hope will be forthcoming, given the
    totality of the context.

    I have sought, for well more than a year and a half now, simply to know
    the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, at least with
    respect to the corruption of the WHOIS data base.  Given this clear and
    abiding quest, who among you can still be entirely unsympathetic to the
    frustration that I feel, to still not know, even at this late date,
    either how the data base came to be corrupted, or any of the particulars
    about the one bit of actual litigation that has arisen from those still-
    mysterious events.  My cup runneth over with a lack of information, and
    after such an extended period of time in this state, I ask to be excused
    for my more than ordinary lack of both temperance and patience.

    That having been said, I accept without reservation the actions taken
    in response to my recent comments, including both the removal of 
    inflamatory (and perhaps prejuduicial) postings of mine from the archives
    as well as a 30-day moderation period.  I take no personal offense at
    these actions, and they seem to me to be commensurate and proportional
    responses.  I say this knowing, as I do, that as a citizen of the
    United States, I am generally free to be more vocal in my defense of
    AFRINIC and its interests, against both foreign interlopers and any
    possible lethargy on the part of the local judiciary than AFRINIC
    itself could prudently be.  I only hope that my unconstrained opinions
    will be properly attributed to me alone.  If AFRINIC finds it either
    necessary or convenient to take actions to further clarify the crisp
    dividing line between itself and me, then I am perfectly OK with that.

    Regards,
    rfg

    _______________________________________________
    Community-Discuss mailing list
    Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
    https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss



**********************************************
IPv4 is over
Are you ready for the new Internet ?
http://www.theipv6company.com
The IPv6 Company

This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.






From mhtguinassou at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 12:35:28 2021
From: mhtguinassou at gmail.com (TIDJANI Mahamat Adoum)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 13:35:28 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Breach of the Code of Conduct by Mr Ronald
	Guilmette
In-Reply-To: <673045AD-D320-4CD9-8D9D-3299A92C83F7@consulintel.es>
References: <1526AB54-5720-4D1E-87E2-534844E239B4@consulintel.es>
 <37347.1614203056@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
 <673045AD-D320-4CD9-8D9D-3299A92C83F7@consulintel.es>
Message-ID: <CAJszmiCDTocS6BC2bP8NhJfgEY-z=gTWFVaidM3n2Vx=5P5TjA@mail.gmail.com>

J'espere que comme ca, on aura pu rendre une justice parfaite. Et il
faudrais que cela soit la derniere chance pour eviter une exclusion
definitive de a liste.

Le jeu. 25 f?vr. 2021 ? 09:37, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss <
community-discuss at afrinic.net> a ?crit :

> Hi Ronald,
>
> The point is not that you agree with the removal of the message. The point
> is that it is censorship, and this community should not allow it, because
> then it means in the future anything else could be removed.
>
> This list is not to "satisfy" crazy laws in any country, whatever is the
> country.
>
> None of the RIRs communities are subjected to the laws of any country
> which imply restricting freedom of expression, and if we have the risk of
> being in that situation in any RIR, then that RIR should be away from that
> country.
>
> If I need to criticize the rules of Mauritius because they are outdated
> and illogic and restrict freedom of expression, then AFRINIC will need to
> censor me, then I will litigate with AFRINIC, no doubt on that and I will
> keep continue criticizing whatever I believe is wrong from blogs, articles,
> newspapers, or whatever is in my hand.
>
> As a consequence, it is totally ridiculous that AFRINIC tries to censor
> anyone, and we must not accept it.
>
> Regards,
> Jordi
> @jordipalet
>
>
>
> ?El 25/2/21 8:56, "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com> escribi?:
>
>     In message <1526AB54-5720-4D1E-87E2-534844E239B4 at consulintel.es>,
>     JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es> wrote:
>
>     >Moreover, removing any posting from the mailing list archives is a
> clear
>     >attack to this community. This is called censorship. If AFRINIC, as an
>     >organization, is providing the service, it must be an open and
> transparent
>     >service, and that includes not making any kind of censorship.
>
>     I thank both Jordi and Mike Silber for their kind and constructive
>     comments.
>
>     I wish to say also that I personally am OK with having my prior
>     posting here scrubbed from the mailing list archives.  I understand
>     that there is some concern, well placed or not, within AFRINIC that
>     some of my comments may reflect badly on the organization itself and
>     might possibly have some effect on either the already ongoing
> litigation
>     or on potential future litigation... and I most certainly would not
>     desire anything that I have said, as a private citizen, to have any
>     negative effect upon AFRINIC's legal position.
>
>     After being duly informed that further contributions from me would be
>     moderated for a period of 30 days, I did some reading on this topic
>     of this legal offense known as "Scandalizing the Court".  I had to
>     educate myself about that, because we quite certainly have nothing
>     even remotely like that here in the U.S.
>
>     What I learned, among other things, is that such an offense continued
>     to exist, in England, Whales, and Scotland, until really quite
> recently,
>     i.e. the 2012-2013 time frame, but that since that time it has been
>     abolished in those judicial systems.  I also learned that this offense
>     continues to exist within many Commonwealth countries, apparently
>     including Mauritius.
>
>     It is not for me to opine on the question of whether my prior comments
>     do or do not satisfy all of the various legal elements of the crime of
>     "Scandalizing the Court", specifically as that crime is defined within
>     the legal system of Mauritius.  That question is most certainly not
>     within my area of expertise.  I would only offer the suggestion that
>     my prior comments may possibly not rise to the level of satisfying the
>     legal definition of that crime, and that even if they did, I would most
>     certainly plead for some mitigation and leniency at my sentencing,
>     based upon my ignorance of local law in this instance.  (And in any
>     event, as should be obvious, I cannot say that I am particularly
> worried
>     that Mauritian authorities would seek to have me extradited from the
>     U.S. to Mauritius, to face Mauritian justice for this particular crime,
>     and even if that remote possibility suddenly became probable, I might
>     simply choose to relocate myself to some national jurisdiction that
>     appears to be immune, at present, to such inter-national extradition
>     proceedings, e.g. someplace that appears on maps just to the left of
>     Kenya.)
>
>     With regards to my prior comments about individuals, I do apologize to
>     the community if any of these might have any effect on AFRINIC's legal
>     position.  It is my hope and belief that they should not and will not.
>     I speak only for myself.  Furthermore, I am quite certainly subject to
>     potential legal proceedings (e.g. for defamation) here in the United
>     States of America... by far the most litigious country on earth...  and
>     I am thus cautious in what I say and how I say it.  I have said no more
>     about individuals than I believe could be justified in open court,
> based
>     upon persuasive and abundant available hard evidence, much of which I
> have
>     already shared here.
>
>     Nontheless, I ask forgiveness from the community for my often
> intemperate
>     manner of speech, forgiveness which I hope will be forthcoming, given
> the
>     totality of the context.
>
>     I have sought, for well more than a year and a half now, simply to know
>     the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, at least with
>     respect to the corruption of the WHOIS data base.  Given this clear and
>     abiding quest, who among you can still be entirely unsympathetic to the
>     frustration that I feel, to still not know, even at this late date,
>     either how the data base came to be corrupted, or any of the
> particulars
>     about the one bit of actual litigation that has arisen from those
> still-
>     mysterious events.  My cup runneth over with a lack of information, and
>     after such an extended period of time in this state, I ask to be
> excused
>     for my more than ordinary lack of both temperance and patience.
>
>     That having been said, I accept without reservation the actions taken
>     in response to my recent comments, including both the removal of
>     inflamatory (and perhaps prejuduicial) postings of mine from the
> archives
>     as well as a 30-day moderation period.  I take no personal offense at
>     these actions, and they seem to me to be commensurate and proportional
>     responses.  I say this knowing, as I do, that as a citizen of the
>     United States, I am generally free to be more vocal in my defense of
>     AFRINIC and its interests, against both foreign interlopers and any
>     possible lethargy on the part of the local judiciary than AFRINIC
>     itself could prudently be.  I only hope that my unconstrained opinions
>     will be properly attributed to me alone.  If AFRINIC finds it either
>     necessary or convenient to take actions to further clarify the crisp
>     dividing line between itself and me, then I am perfectly OK with that.
>
>     Regards,
>     rfg
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Community-Discuss mailing list
>     Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>     https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
>
> **********************************************
> IPv4 is over
> Are you ready for the new Internet ?
> http://www.theipv6company.com
> The IPv6 Company
>
> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or
> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of
> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized
> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly
> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the
> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or
> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including
> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal
> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this
> communication and delete it.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
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From abscoco at gmail.com  Thu Feb 25 18:33:53 2021
From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain Baya)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 19:33:53 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Breach of the Code of Conduct by Mr Ronald
	Guilmette
In-Reply-To: <1526AB54-5720-4D1E-87E2-534844E239B4@consulintel.es>
References: <DCE4015A-2EBE-4F7C-A5EC-C88224AC06CA@afrinic.net>
 <2442a851-874d-fb49-c429-8cf6d1c94deb@gmail.com>
 <1526AB54-5720-4D1E-87E2-534844E239B4@consulintel.es>
Message-ID: <CAJjTEvGd0q7g72=m96JxAZxwd1vL=bueJRagaRVFXg7TmhYdGg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear AfriNIC Community,

Le mer. 24 f?vr. 2021 10:50, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss <
community-discuss at afrinic.net> a ?crit :

> Hi Sunday, all,
>
> While I understand your point, we also need to understand that the
> Internet communities are multicultural and we should not ban someone
> because is language is not up to anyone local culture.
>

Hi Jordi,

Thanks for your email, brother.
...and everyone has also a cultural load, i guess!



> [...]
>
> Moderating someone for a specific time, because he is committing "ad
> hominem", is fine and necessary in my opinion, but not censorship.
> Otherwise, we are not any longer respecting the open and transparent
> community that we are supporting and voicing over all the time "we allow
> you to say whatever you want, but if that's not good in our perspective, we
> will delete it". Is that making sense?
>
>
>

...maybe in a dictatorship environment :'-(

It *seems* as this is not the first time someone is
deleting particular emails from mailinglists...if it's
not; then what were the reasons?

...out of the right to be forgotten [1]; which i
think we should first agree on its applicability into
our midst :-/

Is modifying a public mailinglist archive a good practice?
__
[1]: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_be_forgotten>

Shalom,
--sb.



> Regards,
> Jordi
> @jordipalet
> [...]
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From eddy at afrinic.net  Thu Feb 25 19:16:32 2021
From: eddy at afrinic.net (Eddy Kayihura)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 23:16:32 +0400
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Breach of the Code of Conduct by Mr Ronald
	Guilmette
Message-ID: <067501d70baa$bb003da0$3100b8e0$@afrinic.net>

[Fran?ais disponible au bas]

 

Dear Colleagues,  

 

I wish to reiterate that we don't take lightly such a decision, and it was
not the easiest to make. Having said that, I am grateful that I can see from
the email exchanges that the community understands the reasoning behind the
decision and does not judge us based on the decision itself.

 

Mr. Guilmette, I appreciate your email and the evident sincerity in your
words.

 

I would like to take the opportunity to repeat the invitation to the
community to join us for our upcoming webinar on 4 March 2021.
(https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZwpduquqjkvE9Zjjv74MC33wGJHRcea2n
RV)

 

During the webinar, we will be discussing collectively as a community how to
foster a welcoming, all-inclusive environment that engages in constructive
dialogues where people exercise their right to freely and openly express
their thoughts and critics while respecting their colleagues and their right
not to be publicly attacked or insulted.

 

We will not take any action regarding the archives until after the webinar,
where we can agree collectively on the best way forward.

 

We are working on ensuring that live interpretation services (French/
English) will be made available for this session so that the community can
express their thoughts in the language that they feel most comfortable
using.

 

Kind regards,

 

Eddy 

 

###############

 

Chers Coll?gues,

 

Je souhaite r?it?rer que nous ne prenons pas a la l?g?re une telle d?cision
et elle n?a pas ?t? la plus facile a prendre. Cependant, je suis ravi de
voir au travers les diff?rents ?changes, que la communaut? comprend le
cheminement qui nous y a conduit et ne nous juges pas seulement sur base de
notre d?cision.

 

Mr. Guilmette, j?appr?cie votre email ainsi que la sinc?rit? ?vidente de vos
propos.

 

Je souhaite aussi r?p?ter l?invitation lanc?e a toute la communaut? a notre
webinar du 4 Mars 2021 (
<https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZwpduquqjkvE9Zjjv74MC33wGJHRcea2n
RV>
https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZwpduquqjkvE9Zjjv74MC33wGJHRcea2nR
V). 

 

Pendant ce webinar, nous allons discuter, comme une communaut?, sur comment
cr?er un environnement accueillant, inclusif qui est engag? dans un dialogue
constructif o? les participants jouissent de leur droit de s?exprimer
librement m?me pour critiquer tout en respectant les autres ainsi que leur
droit de ne pas se voir attaquer ou insulter publiquement.

 

Contrairement ? ce qui a ?t? annonc? auparavant, nous n?allons pas
imm?diatement appliquer la mesure concernant les archives. Il est plus
judicieux que nous en discutions ensemble pendant cette r?union alors que
nous nous accordons sur la meilleure marche ? suivre pour le futur.

 

Pour cette session, nous comptons rendre disponible un service
d?interpr?tariat simultan? (Fran?ais/Anglais)  pour permettre a tous de bien
s?exprimer dans la langue de leur choix.

 

Meilleures salutations,

 

Eddy

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg at tristatelogic.com> 
Sent: Thursday, 25 February 2021 01:44
To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Breach of the Code of Conduct by Mr Ronald
Guilmette

 

In message < <mailto:1526AB54-5720-4D1E-87E2-534844E239B4 at consulintel.es>
1526AB54-5720-4D1E-87E2-534844E239B4 at consulintel.es>,

JORDI PALET MARTINEZ < <mailto:jordi.palet at consulintel.es>
jordi.palet at consulintel.es> wrote:

 

>Moreover, removing any posting from the mailing list archives is a 

>clear attack to this community. This is called censorship. If AFRINIC, 

>as an organization, is providing the service, it must be an open and 

>transparent service, and that includes not making any kind of censorship.

 

I thank both Jordi and Mike Silber for their kind and constructive comments.

 

I wish to say also that I personally am OK with having my prior posting here
scrubbed from the mailing list archives.  I understand that there is some
concern, well placed or not, within AFRINIC that some of my comments may
reflect badly on the organization itself and might possibly have some effect
on either the already ongoing litigation or on potential future
litigation... and I most certainly would not desire anything that I have
said, as a private citizen, to have any negative effect upon AFRINIC's legal
position.

 

After being duly informed that further contributions from me would be
moderated for a period of 30 days, I did some reading on this topic of this
legal offense known as "Scandalizing the Court".  I had to educate myself
about that, because we quite certainly have nothing even remotely like that
here in the U.S.

 

What I learned, among other things, is that such an offense continued to
exist, in England, Whales, and Scotland, until really quite recently, i.e.
the 2012-2013 time frame, but that since that time it has been abolished in
those judicial systems.  I also learned that this offense continues to exist
within many Commonwealth countries, apparently including Mauritius.

 

It is not for me to opine on the question of whether my prior comments do or
do not satisfy all of the various legal elements of the crime of
"Scandalizing the Court", specifically as that crime is defined within the
legal system of Mauritius.  That question is most certainly not within my
area of expertise.  I would only offer the suggestion that my prior comments
may possibly not rise to the level of satisfying the legal definition of
that crime, and that even if they did, I would most certainly plead for some
mitigation and leniency at my sentencing, based upon my ignorance of local
law in this instance.  (And in any event, as should be obvious, I cannot say
that I am particularly worried that Mauritian authorities would seek to have
me extradited from the U.S. to Mauritius, to face Mauritian justice for this
particular crime, and even if that remote possibility suddenly became
probable, I might simply choose to relocate myself to some national
jurisdiction that appears to be immune, at present, to such inter-national
extradition proceedings, e.g. someplace that appears on maps just to the
left of

Kenya.)

 

With regards to my prior comments about individuals, I do apologize to the
community if any of these might have any effect on AFRINIC's legal position.
It is my hope and belief that they should not and will not.

I speak only for myself.  Furthermore, I am quite certainly subject to
potential legal proceedings (e.g. for defamation) here in the United States
of America... by far the most litigious country on earth...  and I am thus
cautious in what I say and how I say it.  I have said no more about
individuals than I believe could be justified in open court, based upon
persuasive and abundant available hard evidence, much of which I have
already shared here.

 

Nontheless, I ask forgiveness from the community for my often intemperate
manner of speech, forgiveness which I hope will be forthcoming, given the
totality of the context.

 

I have sought, for well more than a year and a half now, simply to know the
truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, at least with respect to
the corruption of the WHOIS data base.  Given this clear and abiding quest,
who among you can still be entirely unsympathetic to the frustration that I
feel, to still not know, even at this late date, either how the data base
came to be corrupted, or any of the particulars about the one bit of actual
litigation that has arisen from those still- mysterious events.  My cup
runneth over with a lack of information, and after such an extended period
of time in this state, I ask to be excused for my more than ordinary lack of
both temperance and patience.

 

That having been said, I accept without reservation the actions taken in
response to my recent comments, including both the removal of inflamatory
(and perhaps prejuduicial) postings of mine from the archives as well as a
30-day moderation period.  I take no personal offense at these actions, and
they seem to me to be commensurate and proportional responses.  I say this
knowing, as I do, that as a citizen of the United States, I am generally
free to be more vocal in my defense of AFRINIC and its interests, against
both foreign interlopers and any possible lethargy on the part of the local
judiciary than AFRINIC itself could prudently be.  I only hope that my
unconstrained opinions will be properly attributed to me alone.  If AFRINIC
finds it either necessary or convenient to take actions to further clarify
the crisp dividing line between itself and me, then I am perfectly OK with
that.

 

Regards,

rfg

 

_______________________________________________

Community-Discuss mailing list

 <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net

 <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

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From geier at geier.ne.tz  Fri Feb 26 04:47:11 2021
From: geier at geier.ne.tz (Frank Habicht)
Date: Fri, 26 Feb 2021 07:47:11 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Breach of the Code of Conduct by Mr Ronald
 Guilmette
In-Reply-To: <CAJjTEvGd0q7g72=m96JxAZxwd1vL=bueJRagaRVFXg7TmhYdGg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <DCE4015A-2EBE-4F7C-A5EC-C88224AC06CA@afrinic.net>
 <2442a851-874d-fb49-c429-8cf6d1c94deb@gmail.com>
 <1526AB54-5720-4D1E-87E2-534844E239B4@consulintel.es>
 <CAJjTEvGd0q7g72=m96JxAZxwd1vL=bueJRagaRVFXg7TmhYdGg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <afe5b55a-05c8-b52d-6b45-66db62ffd0b3@geier.ne.tz>

Hi,

On 25/02/2021 21:33, Sylvain Baya wrote:
> ...out of the right to be forgotten [1]; which i?
> think we should first agree on its applicability into?
> our midst :-/
> 
> Is modifying a public mailinglist archive a good practice?
> __
> [1]: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_be_forgotten
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_be_forgotten>>

I would treat the mailing list archives as a historic record.
Somebody has volunteered information, contributions, to the mailing
list, knowing that there would be an archive.

I believe if I put my name into the newspaper, then I don't have the
right to be forgotten.

Any attempt to modify the mailing list archives is in my opinion
comparable to some lost people trying to revise or deny historic facts,
or to the poor fellow who thinks that his inauguration audience was
bigger. It should not be allowed.

Thanks,
Frank



From rfg at tristatelogic.com  Thu Feb 25 09:40:30 2021
From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette)
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2021 01:40:30 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Breach of the Code of Conduct by Mr Ronald
	Guilmette
In-Reply-To: <673045AD-D320-4CD9-8D9D-3299A92C83F7@consulintel.es>
Message-ID: <44016.1614246030@segfault.tristatelogic.com>

In message <673045AD-D320-4CD9-8D9D-3299A92C83F7 at consulintel.es>, 
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es> wrote:

>As a consequence, it is totally ridiculous that AFRINIC tries
>to censor anyone, and we must not accept it.

Jordi,

I understand your reasonable concern, although on this occasion I do
not share it for the simple reason that it does not appear that I have
been censored in this instance.  My message did go out, and thus I was
free to speak my mind, which I unquestionably did.

The presence or absence of my controversial message, in the archives
and in perpetuity, seems to me altogether less consequential, in contrast,
and is not a hill that personally feel compelled to fight over, let alone
die on, as we say here.

That having been said, I confess that I *did* previously complain here
that one of my messages from a month or more ago never seemed to appear
in the archives, and that I did feel censored at that time and with
respect to *that* message.  But now I am of the opinion that the absence
from the archives of that messages was likely due to some technical
glitch, and not to any deliberate decision on anyone's part.  On that
basis, I'd like to retract any comments I made at the time about that.

To reiterate, my messages to the list do seem to be going out, people
are apparently reading them (with varying degrees of support, dissent,
or consternation) and thus I am not censored.  If AFRINIC feels that
its legal standing could be in some way harmed by its own act of
effectively republishing, in perpetuity, something that could possibly
be construed as a legal offense in AFRINIC's home jurisdiction, then
it does not seem to me too awfully far out of line for AFRINIC to
effectively redact the archives in some such limited instances.

I would note also that even we here in the U.S. are still squabbling
amongst ourselves about the so-called "Section 230" of the Communications
Decency Act and the legal protections which it affords to entities and
platforms that merely republish the words of others.  The current law
provides a carte blache blanket immunity to any person or entity that
merely republishes the words of another, but there are many, on both the
left and the right, who would have it be otherwise.

In any case, I think that it would be a bit too presumptive for us to
insist that this RIR, or any RIR, should engage in the act of republication,
in a permanent archive, entirely without regard to the local legal framework.


Regards,
rfg