[Community-Discuss] The NRS at it again with endless lobbying

Thu Dec 9 20:56:07 UTC 2021

Firstly Noah - nothing you have stated amounts to backing a claim of coercion - you have a choice to accept the offer or not. There has been no threat involved in you not taking the offer - the claim is therefore still libel and invalid.

Secondly - you keep referring to my time on the board - so - I once again ask AfriNIC to please release me from the NDA to which I am bound so that I am free to share what really happened during this period.

Noah - if you really want accountability and the truth - you will back the call for NDA release - let the truth come out - all of it - let's see what is really in the archives - because I am quite happy to share it if granted release - it may shock you what you see - and it may not be what you hoped you would see - at all

Andrew

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________________________________
From: Noah <noah at neo.co.tz>
Sent: Thursday, December 9, 2021 10:33:39 PM
To: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
Cc: Saul Stein <saul at enetworks.co.za>; General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The NRS at it again with endless lobbying

Hey Andrew,

So speaking of evidence in relation to NRS and LARUS Ltd.

  *   I have in the past received emails & calls (blocked) from random NRS representatives and affiliates of Larus Ltd.
  *   I know of multiple AFRINIC members here who have received multiple calls from NRS representatives affiliated to Larus Ltd.
  *   I have received emails and multiple other AFRINIC resource members have received similar emails from NRS representatives affiliated to Larus Ltd  and these emails are seated in our inboxes and one such email was shared in the original post on this thread.
  *   I know of AFRINIC resource members who have been on zoom calls and recorded interesting things :-).
  *   There are emails and many emails to collaborate on a lot of activities related to LARUS. People don't just speak about it even though they are all disgusted. I on the other hand do and do so openly.  If the TRUTH pisses you off, feel free to delete any email with source address noah at ......tz

I mean, no AFRINIC Resource Member has ever gone this far in my experience. While you have decided to be politically correct by calling the behavior PROMOTION, I call it unethical and dishonest business practices in my humble opinion as the persistent calls are definitely not PROMOTIONS as you would like to twist it.

So, allow me to categorically confirm to the Internet community that there is plenty of evidence all over the place, which points to some of the concerns I have raised in terms of selling/leasing of IPv4 addresses leave alone the new spinning strategy which now includes the offering of free /24 IPv4 block for use for an entire year, free VPS for a month and free Cloud services by other 3rd parties.

In my experience, none of the real serious Cloud Service Providers with serious economies of scale like AWS, AZURE or GCS have ever provided such PROMO like the ones NRS/Larus are pushing down our throats. I mean, have Amazon or Google or Microsoft ever called you constantly for free Cloud services, free /24 addresses etc.

So my concerns with the NRS and Larus are simple.

1. We have an organization that is promising free IPv4 addresses and free Virtual Private Server which you are referring to, as PROMOTION. You really must think that folks out here are fools.

2. We have a resource member LARUS Ltd who supports the said organization the NRS, which is promising to offer free /24 IPv4 blocks while spreading misinformation. I say this because, I know the truth when I see the truth, I know lies when I see lies and I am also familiar with BS when I see BS.

3. We also have an organization called the NRS whose representatives are constantly calling AFRINIC members asking them to join the NRS with a promise of free /24 IPv4 addresses space.

4. We also have an organization called the NRS whose representatives are constantly calling AFRINIC members asking them to join the NRS with a promise of free 3rd party VPS Servers for 1 month.

5. We also have an organization called the NRS whose representatives are constantly calling AFRINIC members asking them to join the NRS with a promise of free 3rd party Cloud Services.

VPS services are considered communication services in most jurisdictions. How will the Tax man in my country handle such freemium services. You say it's PROMOTIONAL, yet even promotional services are taxed. How does Larus Ltd or the NRS plan to pay the taxes for such communication services rendered by a 3rd party for free to resource members in our country.

Now, Suppose such free VPS servers are used by SPAMMERS, DDOS and other Internet abuses etc, who will be liable. LARUS Ltd or NRS based in HongKong or AFRICA ON CLOUD based in ZA? Who will be held responsible for the potential abuse. This issue is my bloody business as a sane member of the Internet community so to speak, Internet security.

Now, let's put all the above aside, a resource member CIL was allocated years ago multiple chunks of IPv4 addresses space to a tune of 6 million addresses, that today in the year of our lord 2021 , companies like Larus affiliated to the said resource member are calling other AFRINIC members offering them free /24 IPv4 addresses so that they can join the Larus affiliated organization the NRS based in Flat A3, 11/F, TML Tower, Tsuen Wan, N.T, Hong Kong SAR.

The NRS members include Larus Ltd which is affiliated with CIL who are in court with multiple litigation against AFRINIC. The other affiliate of NRS is AFRICA ON CLOUD who also recently went to court to seek for the Liquidation of AFRINIC.

Who is AFRINIC? AFRINIC is its members and the AFRICA Internet community.

Now Mr, Andrew Alston, you were a director of the board at the time when decisions to allocate the millions of IPv4 addresses to the said member happened. You also sat on the said AFRINIC board's audit committee at the time. Millions of IPv4 addresses were dashed out to a single member in span of 3 years while you served the board and today affiliates of the said member are contacting many of us PROMISING US FREE /24 IPv4 address which we could have just requested from AFRINIC as resource members.

With all that is happening today, do you reckon that the decisions you guys took at the time while you were on the AFRINIC board, were the right decisions?

I seek the TRUTH. I seek ACCOUNTABILITY.

Cheers
Noah

PS: My employer is none of your business. Just as your employer is none of my business. My colleagues have on multiple occasions informed you about the same. I am a member of the Internet community. I am an Internet end-user enjoying mobile Internet services from local telecoms. I often speak for myself and sometimes speak for multiple resource members I am affiliated with.

Let us discuss instead of diverting.

On Thu, 9 Dec 2021, 18:22 Andrew Alston, <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
See - that right there is the whole point "have you done this" - no - I haven't - what the hell difference does that make.

The way I see it - businesses have strategy - they are not compelled to tell you what those strategies are - or what their promotional ideas are about - it's absolutely none of your business.

Maybe you think you can dictate everyone's strategies and criticize other peoples promos at will - and well - free speech and all that - but when you start alleging coercion - with no proof and no evidence - you cross the line into libel and I call code of conduct.

I am sick to death of your defamatory comments - constant libel - and afrinics willful lack of action no matter how much you say that crosses the line into innuendo - ad-hominem - libel - and general bad behavior.

Unless you can prove what Lu is doing is illegal - or in violation of the terms of his original application - and unless you can prove coercion - I am asking AfriNIC to please sanction you on this list for once again clearly violating the code of conduct.  Enough is enough - and if your employer won’t act against your incessant blather no matter how much damage you do to their reputation in the process - at the very least AfriNIC can enforce their own code of conduct

Andrew

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________________________________
From: Noah <noah at neo.co.tz<mailto:noah at neo.co.tz>>
Sent: Thursday, December 9, 2021 11:10:44 AM
To: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>>
Cc: Saul Stein <saul at enetworks.co.za<mailto:saul at enetworks.co.za>>; General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The NRS at it again with endless lobbying

Hey Andrew,

Your humble opinions are noted.

Firstly, I am not jealous of anything Lu does :-).

Secondly, my concern has nothing to with vengeance :-) because I have never quarrelled with Lu and this ain't personal bro.

Thirdly, I question the motives of Larus publicly because I have interacted with Lu Heng in person and in private and I pretty have an idea what his real motive is and that is to lease and sell IPv4 addresses as a product/service in themselves.

I have received emails from Larus is the past promising me IPv4 addresses for a good price. Until recently they are not promising free /24 IPv4 addresses for use in a whole year on some 3rd party infrastructure of AFRICA ON CLOUD or HUAWEI CLOUD as per the promo on nrs.help

Andrew, is this something you have offered as an ISP? As part of a connectivity service? Are there other LIR besides Larus offering 1 year freebies out there. I mean not even Amazon AWS does that :-)

In fact at some point, Lu in a side discussion attempted to convince me on the endless possibilities of monetizing idle IPv4 addresses from universities or something like that.

So I am writing from a very informed point of view Kaka Andrew and please ignore my boring opinions by sending any email with source address noah@ to the bin bro.

Cheers
Noah

On Thu, 9 Dec 2021, 10:30 Andrew Alston, <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
My question is - what business is it of yours what their motives are. Any company or any institution is free to offer promotional services as they see fit.

If you have proof that they are not giving what they claim - that would constitute offering something not provided. Until then - you can whine all you like - but - if they wish to give away services - that is their commercial right to do so.

Furthermore - if indeed their application stated that the ip space would be used to provide vps / vpn / cloud-based services - then what they charge for such is is absolutely no consequence or business of yours.

Maybe instead of attacking other people's business offers and services you should find a way to compete if you choose to do so - otherwise it just looks like a case of a disgruntled person who can't compete.

At best you get to allege spam - if you prove this is spam and doesn't not have the requisite "unsubscribe me and don't send me this stuff again" options.  But - it certainly is not coercion - I suggest you look up the meaning of that word -

"the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats."

Right now all I see is someone who wants to whine against something someone else wants to do in what is starting to look like a really petty vengeance vendetta - and it's getting very boring

Andrew

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________________________________
From: Noah <noah at neo.co.tz<mailto:noah at neo.co.tz>>
Sent: Thursday, December 9, 2021 9:36:31 AM
To: Saul Stein <saul at enetworks.co.za<mailto:saul at enetworks.co.za>>
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The NRS at it again with endless lobbying

Hi Saul,

Thanks for your email and noted as sometimes I get carried away when I read some of these dishonest emails from Larus affiliates.

So, while going through https://nsr.help<https://nsr.help> website on the landing page, there is information related to freebies where;

The NRS are promising  a free /24 courtesy of Larus Limited.

</snip from nrs.help>

Larus Limited, an NRS honorable contributor, has donated /24 IP addresses for better Internet development. NRS provides an exclusive benefit of /24 IP addresses to our network members as a means of improving Internet stability and growth. Currently, the market value of these /24 IP addresses is 1500 USD, but by joining NRS as a network member, you will get these addresses for free.

Please click this link and get your free /24 IP addresses

</snip>

And a free one month VPS courtesy of AFRICA ON CLOUD. The same AFRICA ON CLOUD that seeks to liquidate AFRINIC.....

</snip from nrs.help>
VPS AFRICA ON CLOUD

One Month Free VPS Africa on Cloud, in partnership with NRS, will be offering a discount code for one month free VPS for NRS network members. With this VPS offering, your company will be able to host domains and servers. Sign up now and experience web-hosting for free through our VPS offer

</snip>

SO one wonders what the motive for this free services are in light of all the ongoing litigation.

Are other resource members falling for the trap which I suspect Larus Limited is trying to justify a customer base in the region because why else would Lu want to provide anyone with a free /24?

For what purpose?

Cheers,
Noah

I agree that ISOC does a better job on promoting internet freedom and that ISOC is widely recognised and respected so to speak compared to Lu's NRS.

On Thu, 9 Dec 2021, 08:59 Saul Stein, <saul at enetworks.co.za<mailto:saul at enetworks.co.za>> wrote:

Hi Noah,

While sharing emails like this is interesting, I’d suggest leaving the emotion and profanity out of the email. It will add to your credibility and stop people just saying, there he goes on a rant…

The reality as we all know is that anyone in Africa can become a member of AFRINIC and micro membership fess are only $1000 – can you can get a /23, not just a /24.

Since the internet is already a global eco system where everyone needs to work together, there are already organisations like ISOC etc  to who do promote this freedom they speak of.

Education is key, we all know this.

From: Noah <noah at neo.co.tz<mailto:noah at neo.co.tz>>
Sent: Wednesday, 08 December 2021 22:28
To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
Subject: [Community-Discuss] The NRS at it again with endless lobbying

Folks,

Are most of you still being coerced by the Lu Heng's wannabe RIR the NRS to join them.

I mean, reading the bullshit in the below email from one of the NRS representatives, a one Fiona Mwangi, clearly shows that Lu Heng is stopping at nothing to pretend and fake it that he has legitimate customers in the region by dashing out free /24's and some 1 month free VPS access and free Cloud services.

Is this how Lu Heng intends to justify that CIL has real end-users in the AFRINIC service region because that would be broad day light deceit and dishonesty.

Who the heck provides free /24 IPv4 block, free VPS and free Cloud Services.

Talk of bullshit and hamburg.

Cheers,

Noah

From: Fiona Nyawira Mwangi <f.mwangi at nrs.help<mailto:f.mwangi at nrs.help>>
Subject: Re: Become members of Number Resource Society

Dear Sir,

I am Fiona  from the Number Resources Society (NRS). The NRS is a gathering of  members who have the goal of preserving the stability of the internet. IP addresses are one of the most important resources for Internet related businesses.

The NRS’s core beliefs and values are an unlimited, unrestricted, and united Internet that is based on a global free market and enterprise based on the principles of transparency and accountability. The establishment of the Society is an advocacy of the Internet’s stability, which can only be achieved by individuals, private companies, and ISPs having freedom in managing their networks and recognizing the Internet as one universal resource comprised of many individual networks each operated by and according to the wishes of its own management.

With this, we are inviting your company to become part of the NRS and join us in this noble cause of protecting the internet. Through your participation, we are one step closer to achieving our goal of improving the status quo of the Internet.

Your membership to the NRS will entitle you to our membership benefits, provided by NRS contributors:

- /24 IPv4 address lease for your organization with lease fee waived provided by one of our NRS contributor (terms and conditions apply, including all RIR policy requirements and provider's accept use policy). Currently, /24 IP addresses are pegged at a price of USD$2,500 annually.

-Free cloud space for your organization through another of our NRS contributors.

-One month free VPS from one our NRS contributors.

-A vast networking platform of various stakeholders, telecommunication and IT companies, in addition to Internet Governance training and workshops.

Should you have any questions, or want to discuss more details, please do not hesitate to contact +254720260410  and visit our website : www.nrs.help<http://www.nrs.help>

I am hoping for your positive response regarding this proposal.

Best regards,

Fiona Mwangi.

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