From abscoco at gmail.com Sun Aug 1 00:32:01 2021 From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain Baya) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 01:32:01 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Correction to my previous email In-Reply-To: References: <48274.1627537603@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: Dear AfriNIC's Community, Le jeudi 29 juillet 2021, Erick Joshua Lagon a ?crit : > [...] > > Hi Erick, Thanks for your email, brother. > > The question is, can the AFRINIC contribute as much as their counterparts > to the stability fund? Also, this hiccup in the operations of AFRINIC > > ...please go to NRO, read again, and come back here to share the answer which is already out there. Shalom, --sb. > > [...] > > Regards, > Erick > > On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 1:47 PM Ronald F. Guilmette > wrote: > >> Paul Hjul has posted to this mailing list a number of well-reasoned >> and eloquently articulated arguments that are more than sensible, >> and with which I agree wholeheartedly. The quotes below are not >> among them. >> >> In message > V6Kbrw at mail.gmail.com> >> Paul Hjul wrote: >> >> >Hopefully the Board and management will quickly >> > [...] >> > -- -- Best Regards ! __ baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]| Subscribe to Mailing List: __ #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|#?Romains15?:33?Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec vous tous! ?#?Amen?!? ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement? ?Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!?(#Psaumes42:2) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From abscoco at gmail.com Sun Aug 1 00:40:03 2021 From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain Baya) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 01:40:03 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Correction to my previous email In-Reply-To: <48274.1627537603@segfault.tristatelogic.com> References: <48274.1627537603@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: Dear AfriNIC's Community, ...imho, the present quoted email is the answer of the one it preceded. Le jeudi 29 juillet 2021, Ronald F. Guilmette a ?crit : > Paul Hjul has posted to this mailing list a number of well-reasoned > and eloquently articulated arguments that are more than sensible, > and with which I agree wholeheartedly. The quotes below are not > among them. > > Thanks for your email, brother :-) Shalom, --sb. In message V6Kbrw at mail.gmail.com> > Paul Hjul wrote: > > >Hopefully the Board and management will quickly > >make it very clear that partnership in "building Africa's digital future" > >means collaboration of a global nature. It means devising consensus and > >action that is aimed at promoting a true digital future and distancing > from > >the deleterious xenophobic and regionalist attitudes and discourse that > >flares up. > > Paul, this is the second time that you have injected these dual epithets, > "xenophobic" and "regionalist" into the conversation here. I personally > feel that these terms are both distracting and beneath the otherwise > admirable level of your discourse. Further, I am not even persuaded > that the term "regionalist" even is an epithet, even though it is clear > that you intend us to interpret it that way. > > What is the opposite of "regionalist"? "Globalist"? Assuming so, I would > be more than happy to debate you, ad infinitum, on the question of whether > "globalism", writ large, has or has not improved the lot of the lower > classes globally, and specifically in the third world, or whether its > primary economic effects have been to make mega-billionaries even richer > to the point where they can now commute to space via their own private > rocket ships. > > Paul, if you're going to trumpet the beneficial effects of globalist > capitalism, then you had best be prepared also to defend its less > desirable effects as well. Is it right or proper or fair that a > poor sharecropper in Kenya should go hungry or that his daughter > should lose an eye for want of a surgeon, all because speculators in > New York have decided amongst themselves that the global price of > bulk coffee should be cut in half this week? > > >This brings me back to the fact that the best way to manage the risk which > >is plaguing the organization is to get as much dispute resolution handled > >outside of potentially organization shattering litigation. > > So you are in favor of unilateral disarmament on the part of AFRINIC? > You want them to go cap in hand to all three of the parties that are > current suing them and beg for a negotiated settlement in each case? > > Maybe we should make you the next U.S. ambassador to Afghanistan. > > >The membership > >simply do not know how many litigants there are knocking at Afrinic > > Objection your honor! Speculative. Calls for a conclusion not based on > the facts in evidence. > > I might as well speculate that there are just oodles and oodles of people > and companies lining up, as we speak, to sue -you-. (How do we know > there aren't? Can you prove that there aren't any such?) > > >but it > >is quite clear that there are several cases that need to be handled > >appropriately and to date the organization has crafted an environment > >favouring a litigious approach. > > I'll be blunt. That is utter rubbish. AFRINIC did the Right Thing by > reclaiming blocks of IP addresses which had been -provably- stolen from > its free pool. Two of those thieving companies sued, apparently based > on nothing other than bogus disinformation that they themselves had > manufactured out of their... well... out of thin air. Nothing AFRINIC > did in either of those two cases consitutes "crafting an environment > favouring a litigious approach". That is an utterly false, disingenuous, > and slanderous claim with no basis in fact and I encourage yoy to retract > it. > > More recently, AFRINIC, acting on information that none of us has yet even > seen, made a decision to reclaim a great deal of IPv4 space from a > different > party. In the wake of that decision, THE OTHER PARTY initiated legal > action. > > Once again, your narrative of AFRINIC "crafting an environment favouring > a litigious approach" falls flat in the cold light of day and the actual > facts. > > I'm damn glad that you are not the CEO of my bank. It seems that if you > were, and if the place got robbed, you would just throw up your hands and > say "Oh well! Boys will be boys!" > > If the bank got robbed three times in a row, you would blame it on the > bank and urge the bank president to sit down in arbitration with the > various robbers. > > We've seen this kind of thing where I live. Not recently but in the past. > Some people occasionally claim that women who have been molested have only > themselves to blame because they were wearing skirts that were too short. > Blame the victim. We don't do this too much here in the U.S. anymore, as > the practice has been well and widely discredited. The blame now properly > goes to the perpetrators, NOT to the victims. > > Let's be clear about who, exactly, has "crafted an environment favouring > a litigious approach". AFRINIC is currently facing three legal actions > against it. Who initiated each and all of those? > > I'll give you a hint. It wasn't AFRINIC. > > What AFRINIC has done may be right or may be wrong, but AFRINIC is not > the party that has initiated these legal actions, two of which, at > least, are based on some of the most provably outrageous frauds ever > conceived by the mind of man. > > It seems however that you want AFRINIC to sit down amicably with those > thieves and negotiate with them so that they each get to keep half of > what they have provably stolen. Doing so would only add disgrace to > dishonor, and I, for one, sincerly hope that AFRINIC does not do so. > > > Regards, > rfg > > [...] -- -- Best Regards ! __ baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]| Subscribe to Mailing List: __ #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|#?Romains15?:33?Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec vous tous! ?#?Amen?!? ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement? ?Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!?(#Psaumes42:2) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From abscoco at gmail.com Sun Aug 1 01:11:44 2021 From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain Baya) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 02:11:44 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] The Contract In-Reply-To: <52534.1627606362@segfault.tristatelogic.com> References: <17af40726bd.c1a468ac340728.5536230081885576908@africaoncloud.net> <52534.1627606362@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: Dear AfriNIC's Community, Le vendredi 30 juillet 2021, Ronald F. Guilmette a ?crit : > In message <17af40726bd.c1a468ac340728.5536230081885576908@ > africaoncloud.net>, > Paul Wollner wrote: > > >I for one call that at this stage, AFRINIC should be seriously looking > into > >ways transition it's service to other RIRs to mitigate the risk that > >they have mentioned today to the press. > > Press? What press? > > Well, anyway, we can come back to that later. > > Hi Ronald, Thanks for your email, brother! > For now, I just wanted to suggest that before we call the undertaker and > florist and start ordering the funeral arrangements, maybe Paul could > answer a simple question for me... > > Spcifically, I am hoping that Paul may be able to tell us all how Cloud > Innovantion's actions... at least the ones that are not disputed in any > way... comport with the plain language of Section 4(c)(i) of the AFRINIC > Registration Services Agreement (RSA): > > https://afrinic.net/ast/pdf/services/afrinic-rsa-en-201801.pdf > > ~?~ [...] 4. Conditions of service (a) Where a member, receiving service under an existing agreement applies for a change or a variation of the type of such service which AFRINIC has been supplying to it, evaluation of such a ?change request? will be effected in terms of the provisions of clause (2) of the present agreement. (b) Cooperation: (i) An applicant receiving service under an agreement is at all times bound to provide to AFRINIC such information, assistance and cooperation as may be reasonably required by the latter in the provision of the service. (ii) Such request for information may also be made where AFRINIC is investigating (reviewing) the applicant?s utilisation of the number resources already assigned to it. (iii) Failure by the applicant, to comply with a request made at above may: (1) entail revocation or withholding of the service supplied by AFRINIC; (2) be taken into account by AFRINIC in its evaluation for further and future assignment or allocation of number resources; (3) lead to the closure of an LIR and termination of the agreement by AFRINIC. (c) Applicant?s use of the service The Applicant hereby irrevocably: (i) Commits itself to using the services solely for the purpose for which it was requested. (ii) Commits itself to using the services in full and unreserved compliance with AFRINIC?s policies and mandate: (1) without knowingly infringing the rights and/or interests of other users of such services, (2) within the limits of applicable laws and/or regulations of the jurisdiction in which it operates. (iii) Further acknowledges that AFRINIC may at its own discretion and for good cause and common Interest of the stability of the Internet, investigate or cause to be investigated, the Applicant?s use of the services by the appropriate and competent authority(ies). (iv) Hereby binds itself to: (1) notify AFRINIC whenever its circumstances so change that it is no longer in need of the Internet number resources supplied or being supplied to it under a Registration Service Agreement; (2) surrender to AFRINIC within 15 days of the service of the notice at (iv)(1) above the Internet number resources supplied or being supplied to it under a Registration Service Agreement; (3) update any data submitted to AFRINIC in the context of: a. an application for a Registration Service Agreement or b. the renewal of any Registration Service Agreement whenever such data have been the subject of amendment, change or have become outdated. (d) AFRINIC will comply with all applicable data protection and privacy laws of the Republic of Mauritius in its handling of data and information submitted to it by the Applicant in furtherance of an application for services and use thereof. [...] ~?~ ...Ronald, please, see here [1] for *the purpose* :'-( __ [1]: < https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-July/004137.html> > Paul, if you would be so kind, that would be most enlightening. > > ...maybe not him? any other might want to take this opportunity to try to continue to mis-inform us that the RSA and the Bylaws are not useful documents for Ressource Members; and that only the CPM is :'-( Shalom, --sb. > Regards, > rfg > > [...] -- -- Best Regards ! __ baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]| Subscribe to Mailing List: __ #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|#?Romains15?:33?Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec vous tous! ?#?Amen?!? ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement? ?Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!?(#Psaumes42:2) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From b.sowers154 at gmail.com Sun Aug 1 02:49:43 2021 From: b.sowers154 at gmail.com (Brian Sowers) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2021 22:49:43 -0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= Message-ID: The effect from the NRO activating their stability fund for AFRINIC?s behalf will be twofold. First, it will certainly alleviate?in a disclosed and stable manner?AFRINIC?s financial shortcomings to allow for it to continue operations. Second, the call for help from NRO certainly draws more attention to AFRINIC?s current shady financial situation. A look at AFRINIC?s books will quite possibly unveil what the ?alternate means of funding? were. At that point, it is up to the discretion of the powers that be what happens then. Like many in this thread, my wish is that AFRINIC?s shady dealings by its leadership get exposed for the community?s betterment. -Brian From rfg at tristatelogic.com Sun Aug 1 03:03:13 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2021 20:03:13 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Correction to my previous email In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <62314.1627786993@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In message , Brian Sowers wrote: >You straw man Paul's argument by >taking up a cause no one was discussing. Global capitalism? I'm afraid you'll need to take up this matter with Paul, not me. He's the one that has been throwing around what he clearly hopes will be incendiary epithets like "xenophobia" and "regionalism". I have merely taken the liberty of pointing out how ridiculous such retoric is. Is it "xenophobic" to maintain, even at this late date, some hope or belief that AFRINIC was formed with the idea in mind that it should first and foremost serve the African continent, and the people and companies thereon? If so, then you may color me as a xenophobe, for I am guilty as charged. I am however by no means alone. If it was Paul's intent to suggest that either AFRINIC itself, or the AFRINIC community is "xenophobic" then I would hasten to point out that the AFRINIC region is composed of 57 different countries containing millions of people, black, white, brown, yellow, orange, pink, and every other color of the rainbow, making the AFRINIC region undoubtedly the most diverse and least xenophobic of all of the five RIR regions. >Paul is raising the issue of a global internet for all... Not for all, exactly. For some. More specifically for some well heeled globalist capitalists... and in this instance just one in particular... who have positioned themselves to obtain windfall profits based on relatively little in the way of actual labor and hard work... windfall profits that are instead based largely or entirely on the exploitation of what would appear to be legalistic loopholes that, in practice, require a magnifying glass to find. >so please spare us your disastrous appeal to emotion by introducing a >theoretical Kenyan sharecropper I will avoid appeals to emotion if others will commit to doing likewise. That means no more arguments based on perfectly ridiculous and easily disproven claims of "xenophobia". And no more using the word "regional" or "regionalism" as if they were expletives. AFRINIC is a REGIONAL Internet Registry. Get over it. >Once again, you skew Paul's argument to fit your own. What exactly *is* Paul's argument? I wasn't able to tease that out from in between all of his hoplessly slanted and over-the-top retoric. If either you or he wish to make a well reasoned argument, based on facts and logic, urging people towards a particular goal or outcome, then by all means, please do so. No hurry. We'll wait. >"The membership >simply do not know how many litigants there are knocking at Afrinic..." The membership also does not know if an unexpected huge metor will hit the earth tomorrow, thus rendering all of these discussions, and AFRINIC, and the whole Internet, and even humanity itself no longer relevant. But what was Paul's point? Are these things in any sense *likely*? Or are they just fears based on the fevered dreams of a certain and particular globalist capitalist and the various other supporting actors in this drama who feed from the scraps that fall from his banquet table? >"but it is quite clear that there are several cases that need to be handled >appropriately and to date the organization has crafted an environment >favouring a litigious approach." >It would be helpful if you included the full quote. I have now done so, and it doesn't help to support Paul's thesis or his point of view one bit. Every single syllable of the full quote, as reproduced in full above, is what we sometimes refer to here as "bovine excrement". There is exactly and only -zero- evidence that any other parties are lining up in the court hallways in Mauritius to sue AFRINIC, and there is also and exactly -zero- evidence that AFRINIC was in any way responsible for the various "litigious" attacks that have been launched against it BY OTHER PARTIES. This is so obviously absurd that it is hardly even worthy of response. In your universe, apparently, if a guy ran over a pedestrian and then actually left the pedistrian under the car, you would blame the pedestrian for having stood too close to the car. You say that you are against "appeals to emotion" and yet here you are, both condoning and defending some of the most rank, disgusting, and above all hypocritical appeals to emotion I have ever witnessed on this mailing list. >Litigants are approaching because of... "Litigants"? Which litigants, exactly? Name one. Either that or admit that you're just spreading fake news and deliberate disinformation. >I have seen your prior posts and it is clear you are at the end of your >patience. Oh yes. Quite so. And with just about everyone. >Your sarcasm/trolling is prevalent Why thank you! I was afraid for awhile there that nobody would notice! :-) >and can be easily reported in violation of the CoC. By all means, please feel free to report anything you like. Please note however that *I* will be reporting *you* for posting to this mailing list while wearing a red rubber clown nose... also a clear violation of the CoC. (Where are the Internet Police when we need them?) Oh! And by the way... not that it matters much, but... ummmm.. Who are you? And what, may I ask, is your professional affiliation? You know, I tried googling for your email address, b.sowers154(at)gmail.com, and you know, I came up with ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. So whatever rock you have been hiding under all these years, I just want to compliment you for your stunning ability to be an absolute ghost, with no online record of you having ever even existed AT ALL. (Well, there *are* some people named "Brian Sowers", but they all seem to be located either in Massachusetts or New York or Ohio... rather far away from the concerns of the African continent, I should think. Are you one of those gentlemen? If so, which one? Are you the one who works for the Massachusetts marketing company? Do tell!) >For the sake of us all the community, please offer valid counter arguments. See above. If you want more, just say so, because I've still got plenty more. It is easy to refute fake news and propaganda, and I consider it part of my duty as a human being to do so. So by all means... you and Paul and all of these other fresh new and mysterious gmail friends we seem to have these days should feel free to continue the current campaign of blatant and silly fearmongering, and I'll be right here, speaking the plain truth, as I have always done, and for as long as it takes. Your paymaster won't win just by repeatedly blasting the same lies and the same fake news out to various RIR mailing lists, over and over again, day after day. That's just not how any of this works. Regards, rfg From rfg at tristatelogic.com Sun Aug 1 03:55:35 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2021 20:55:35 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <62521.1627790135@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In message , Brian Sowers wrote: >The effect from the NRO activating their stability fund for AFRINIC's >behalf will be twofold. >First, it will certainly alleviate - in a disclosed and stable manner - >AFRINIC's financial shortcomings to allow for it to continue operations. Do you have some evidence to present which would support the view that AFRINIC will *not* be able to continue operations? Sorry! Silly question. Of course you don't. If you had then you would have posted it instead of this speculative rubbish. >Second, the call for help from NRO certainly draws more attention to >AFRINIC's current shady financial situation. Do you have some evidence to present which would support the view that AFRINIC's financial situation is in some way "shady"? Sorry! Silly question. Of course you don't. If you had then you would have posted it instead of this fake news. You may not be aware of this, my new mysterious Gmail friend, but I have a bit of experience with what is and what isn't actually hard evidence. And to be frank, you're really very bad at this "amateur detective" stuff. You should quit while you are behind. You're just making yourself and your paymaster look silly and desperate now. Regards, rfg From noah at neo.co.tz Sun Aug 1 06:10:53 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 09:10:53 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments In-Reply-To: <2BCE246D-270A-4C5A-BB1E-40441776EE69@delong.com> References: <5836452.zqfpRbV99g@coffee-bar> <2BCE246D-270A-4C5A-BB1E-40441776EE69@delong.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 31 Jul 2021, 21:52 Owen DeLong, wrote: > > Had AFRINIC stuck to its governing documents as written, rather than > choosing > to invent restrictions which are not codified therein I refer you to the Resource Services Agreement Section 4(c)(i) whose wordings are totally clear and unambiguous. While I am not a fan of some of the things Cloud Innovation has > done, Ooh Owen.... you know what... just enjoy your paycheck from Cloud Innovation. The things they have done are known and we don't need you to remind the community. I see an RIR that does not operate according to its governing documents > I refer you to the Resource Services Agreement Section 4(c)(i) whose wordings are totally clear and unambiguous. Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From oussouly at gmail.com Sun Aug 1 06:29:09 2021 From: oussouly at gmail.com (Ousmane Ly) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 02:29:09 -0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments In-Reply-To: References: <5836452.zqfpRbV99g@coffee-bar> <2BCE246D-270A-4C5A-BB1E-40441776EE69@delong.com> Message-ID: Dear Noah. Congratulations for your action on african digital sovregnity! I am very Proud of your actions. You have our support. Best ================================================= Dr Ousmane Ly Consultant en Sant? Publique, Globale/Mondiale, Digitale/Num?rique et Connect?e Tel Mobile : +223 76 13 44 70 accessible en roaming ================================================= Ce message ?lectronique ainsi que toutes les pi?ces jointes est destin? ? ?tre re?u uniquement par les personnes autoris?es ? recevoir les informations confidentielles qu'il peut contenir. Toute diffusion, publication, totale ou partielle ou divulgation sous quelque forme que ce soit non express?ment autoris?es de ce message, sont interdites. Veuillez ne pas lire, copier, transf?rer ou stocker ce message si vous n??tes pas un destinataire attendu de celui-ci. Si vous avez re?u ce message par erreur, veuillez le transf?rer ? l?exp?diteur et le supprimer compl?tement de votre syst?me informatique. Le dim. 1 ao?t 2021 ? 02:12, Noah a ?crit : > > On Sat, 31 Jul 2021, 21:52 Owen DeLong, wrote: > >> >> Had AFRINIC stuck to its governing documents as written, rather than >> choosing >> to invent restrictions which are not codified therein > > > I refer you to the Resource Services Agreement Section 4(c)(i) whose > wordings are totally clear and unambiguous. > > > While I am not a fan of some of the things Cloud Innovation has >> done, > > > > Ooh Owen.... you know what... just enjoy your paycheck from Cloud > Innovation. > > The things they have done are known and we don't need you to remind the > community. > > > I see an RIR that does not operate according to its governing documents >> > > I refer you to the Resource Services Agreement Section 4(c)(i) whose > wordings are totally clear and unambiguous. > > Noah > _______________________________________________ > Members-Discuss mailing list > Members-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rfg at tristatelogic.com Sun Aug 1 09:14:03 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2021 02:14:03 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Case Closed In-Reply-To: <2BCE246D-270A-4C5A-BB1E-40441776EE69@delong.com> Message-ID: <63280.1627809243@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In message <2BCE246D-270A-4C5A-BB1E-40441776EE69 at delong.com>, Owen DeLong wrote: >Had AFRINIC stuck to its governing documents as written... Objection your honor! Irrelevant and immaterial. Despite all pretenses to the contrary on the part of Plaintiff, and despite Plaintiff's repeated attempts to introduce extraneous and irrelevant facts and considerations into the present case, at base this case was and remains a relatively straightforward commercial contractual dispute between the parties. This contractual dispute must necessarily be framed through the lens of the AFRINIC Registration Services Agreement (RSA) whose provisions and conditions were mutually agreed and undertaken by both Plaintiff and Defendant, first some eight years ago and again, repeatedly, since that time. Plaintiff attempts to look for something, anything, outside of the four corners of the RSA agreement which might now relieve it of the responsibilities, commitments, and business risks which it knowingly undertook, beginning some eight years ago and continuing to the present time. It is thus little wonder that Plaintiff now attempts to distract the court's attention from the actual and operative contract which lies at the heart of this case with various irrelevances and shiny objects. Although the fundamental, incurable, and essential weaknesses of Plaintiff's case, on both the facts and the law, oblige it now to attempt to argue that the alignment of the stars was in some ways inadequate, this court is obliged to look only to the plain language of the contract that was undertaken, willingly, freely, and without duress, by both parties, and to its express provisions which are explicit in providing remedies in the event of a breach. There has been and remains no factual dispute between the parties with respect to Plaintiff's use of its registered IP address for purposes other than those for which they were originally granted by Defendant. Representatives of Plaintiff have repeatedly and publicly defended Plaintiff's alleged rights to use these IP addresses in any manner which may suit Plaintiff's current business objectives. Although Plaintiff now finds its unambiguous contractual commitments under Sections 4(c)(i), 6(d)(iii) and 6(d)(iv) of the RSA inconvenient to its current business plans, Plaintiff nontheless remains legally bound by those commitments -- commitments which Plaintiff itself freely admits it has violated, and not merely in a de minimis manner, but substantially, materially, and over an extended period of time. The RSA agreement between Plaintiff and Defendant has been in effect for some eight years now. As long as Plaintiff was able to profit from this contractual agreement it voiced no material objection to the various provisions thereof. Nor did it take issue with any of the contract provisions prior to executing the agrement. The apparent fact that Plaintiff failed to take note of the obvious business risks that are inherent and implied by Section 4(c)(i) of the argeeement is not a problem which Defendant can be legally held responsible for, particularly at this late date. It was Plaintiff's responsibility to seek out adequate counsel prior to entering into the RSA agreement with Defendant, particularly if it failed to adequately understand the business risks of such an undertaking. Instead however, Plaintiff has slept on its rights for some eight years and now arrives at this court requesting some judicial relief which lies outside of the four corners of the RSA agreement, as written. But the court is not now obliged to re-write the existing contract at the behest of Plaintiff or in a manner favorable to it. Furthermore, doing so would abrogate many, most, or all of the fundamental tenets of existing contract law. Plaintiff protests that the Board and/or executives of Defendant have in some ways acted outside of their rightful remit and authority in enforcing the plain language of RSA Section 4(c)(i) against Plaintiff, and/or that said Directors and executives are obliged to follow certain internal rules and procedures of Defendant's member-based association before undertaking to enforce provisions of the RSA agreement which was undertaken by Plaintiff. Although it may well be the case that Defendant's Board or executives acted in ways not explicitly sanctioned by Defendant's member-based association at the time, the remedy, to the extent that there is one, lies entirely in the hands of Defendant's own members who may recall and replace any wayward Directors or executives as and when they may feel the need. The members of Defendant may also, by consensus or popular vote, revise or replace existing internal policies and procedures as may best suit their common interests. The *generalized* question of the propriety, or lack thereof, of the actions of Defendant's Board or executives is not before this court. Rather, as noted above, this court is asked to consider only the matter of the contractual dispute between the parties, which must be resolved by looking to the plain language of the RSA. Matters internal to Defendant's member-based association are not ones which this court can, should, or would want to become enmeshed, and there exists ample means within Defendant's association itself to correct any ostensibly improper actions on the part of Defendant's Board or executives. Plaintff asks this court to fashion, presumably out of whole cloth, some extra-contractual remedy for Plaintiff's current contractual predicament, into which it placed itself with eyes wide open. When doing so, Plaintiff makes reference to all manner of allegations relating to the internal policies and procedures of Defendant. What Plaintiff fails to do is to make any reference to any specific provision of the one and only legal agreement that binds the two parties together, i.e. the RSA. Plaintiff does not allege any material breach, or indeed any breach whatsoever, on the part of Defendant with respect the clear terms of the RSA. Nor does Plaintiff call the court's attention to any provision of the RSA which would grant Plaintiff *any* relief in the case of a breach by Defendant, even if there had been any such breach, which there has not been. Rather Plaintiff attempts to play the alchemist, magically transmuting mere allegations of lapses in the internal procedures of Defendant into some alleged but unspecified contractual breach of the RSA by Defendant, even though Plaintiff can point to no specific provision of the RSA which Defendant has breached. Having also found no provision within the RSA which would provide Plaintiff with any relief, even in the unlikely event that Defendant had been in breach of contract, Plaintiff now also urges the court to become an active participant in Plaintiff's alchemy by conjuring up some judicially- manufactured remedy for a purported (but non-existant) contractual breach... a remedy which simply does not exist within the RSA contract as written. Given that there are no open issues of either fact or law in this case, and for all of the foregoing reasons, I now move this court to declare summary judgement in favor of Defendant. The RSA is the one and only controlling contract in this case, and Plaintiff has failed to allege any material breach of any of the provisions of that contract on the part of Defendant, thus rendering Plaintiff's case effectively void. Furthermore even if there had been a breach by Defendant, the plain language of the RSA agreement, which Plaintiff willingly and freely accepted to be bound by, contains *no* provisions for any relief to Plaintiff in case of a breach by Defendant. Thus, even if this court were to find that Defendant somehow breached its responsibilities under the contract, the remedy due to Plaintiff would be nothing other than what Defendant has already attempted to effectuate, i.e. the termination of the contract together with the termination of any and all ongoing responsibilities of the parties to one another, leaving each free to go its separate way without any further vexation by the other. Submitted this day, 1, August, 2021 by your humble servant, Ronald F. Guilmette, Esq. From paul.wollner at africaoncloud.net Sun Aug 1 09:57:29 2021 From: paul.wollner at africaoncloud.net (Paul Wollner) Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2021 11:57:29 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: <17af4346477.12b89fc82346837.8550228416205902171@africaoncloud.net> References: <17af41cb044.e637eb65343733.3107949989203015779@africaoncloud.net> <17af4346477.12b89fc82346837.8550228416205902171@africaoncloud.net> Message-ID: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> Hello community I think I? misused the word ?take over? to spike some unfortunate sentiments. Let me try this again: In the interest of internet continuity, another RIR should help AFRINIC (by staff or infrastructure), to perform it?s core registration service function for the time being, until all AFRINIC litigation has been sorted to avoid disruption to our African end users and businesses. Regards Paul ---- On Thu, 29 Jul 2021 23:38:32 +0200 Paul Wollner wrote ---- Apologies for the duplicate post, but the initial posting was too large.? The concerns expressed by TISPA, as well as other concerned parties and especially by AFRINIC's? own admission in the news outlet lexpress.mu, which is available at https://ibb.co/tmWCk0k, regarding the AFRINIC?s inability to keep providing its core registry functions due to its inability to meet its financial requirements. I suggest that in order not hold end users, ISPs and any other business's hostage, for the interest of continue service of AFRINIC?s core registry service, we should urgently call for NRO fulfil their responsibility as well as commitment to the global internet to take over AFRINIC?s registration service for the time being, until litigation is settled some time later. (https://www.nro.net/accountability/rir-accountability/joint-rir-stability-fund/) That way, no end user or business will ever impacted however results come out of litigation. Regards Paul Wollner -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lamiaachnayti at gmail.com Sun Aug 1 11:58:43 2021 From: lamiaachnayti at gmail.com (Lamiaa Chnayti) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 12:58:43 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?=5Bripe-list=5D_Call_for_AFRINIC?= =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=99s_registry_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> References: <17af41cb044.e637eb65343733.3107949989203015779@africaoncloud.net> <17af4346477.12b89fc82346837.8550228416205902171@africaoncloud.net> <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> Message-ID: Well yes, because at some point, AFRINIC will most likely find itself in the obligation to ask for staff support from other RIRs to maintain its operations, but probably until it?s too late. There?s too much to risk if we don?t get any help from another RIR as soon as possible.. Le dim. 1 ao?t 2021 ? 10:58, Paul Wollner a ?crit : > > Hello community > > I think I misused the word ?take over? to spike some unfortunate > sentiments. > > Let me try this again: > > In the interest of internet continuity, another RIR should help AFRINIC > (by staff or infrastructure), to perform it?s core registration service > function for the time being, until all AFRINIC litigation has been sorted > to avoid disruption to our African end users and businesses. > > Regards > Paul > > > > ---- On Thu, 29 Jul 2021 23:38:32 +0200 *Paul Wollner > >* wrote > ---- > > Apologies for the duplicate post, but the initial posting was too large. > > The concerns expressed by TISPA, as well as other concerned parties and > especially by AFRINIC's own admission in the news outlet lexpress.mu, > which is available at https://ibb.co/tmWCk0k, regarding the AFRINIC?s > inability to keep providing its core registry functions due to its > inability to meet its financial requirements. > > I suggest that in order not hold end users, ISPs and any other business's > hostage, for the interest of continue service of AFRINIC?s core registry > service, we should urgently call for NRO fulfil their responsibility as > well as commitment to the global internet to take over AFRINIC?s > registration service for the time being, until litigation is settled some > time later. ( > https://www.nro.net/accountability/rir-accountability/joint-rir-stability-fund/ > ) > > That way, no end user or business will ever impacted however results come > out of litigation. > > Regards > Paul Wollner > > > > > > > -- Lamiaa CHNAYTI -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From taiwo.oyewande88 at gmail.com Sun Aug 1 12:00:32 2021 From: taiwo.oyewande88 at gmail.com (Taiwo Oye) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 13:00:32 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> References: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> Message-ID: Good day all, I think paul made some sense in his first statement (tho the statement has been watered down now). If afrinic is in a financial fix or in a state where it is tending towards a financial situation where it can no longer perform its duties, it is only right to start weighing all viable options to keep the registry afloat. Paul made a suggestion - tho a bit aggressively - about the NRO coming to save the region. I will like the community to see this as ?option 1?. Does any other community member have any better suggestion in the (not so likely) situation that afrinic does not have the financial capability to carry out its duties? If so, please lay them out for discussion amongst the community members. If not, Option 1 remains the only alternative to cushion the effect of the financial breakdown. That being said. I think we should think in the direction of way forward and have a plan ready rather than crucifying Paul for being proactive. > On Aug 1, 2021, at 11:01, Paul Wollner wrote: > > ? > > Hello community > > I think I misused the word ?take over? to spike some unfortunate sentiments. > > Let me try this again: > In the interest of internet continuity, another RIR should help AFRINIC (by staff or infrastructure), to perform it?s core registration service function for the time being, until all AFRINIC litigation has been sorted to avoid disruption to our African end users and businesses. > > Regards > Paul > > > > ---- On Thu, 29 Jul 2021 23:38:32 +0200 Paul Wollner wrote ---- > > Apologies for the duplicate post, but the initial posting was too large. > > The concerns expressed by TISPA, as well as other concerned parties and especially by AFRINIC's own admission in the news outlet lexpress.mu, which is available at https://ibb.co/tmWCk0k, regarding the AFRINIC?s inability to keep providing its core registry functions due to its inability to meet its financial requirements. > > I suggest that in order not hold end users, ISPs and any other business's hostage, for the interest of continue service of AFRINIC?s core registry service, we should urgently call for NRO fulfil their responsibility as well as commitment to the global internet to take over AFRINIC?s registration service for the time being, until litigation is settled some time later. (https://www.nro.net/accountability/rir-accountability/joint-rir-stability-fund/) > > That way, no end user or business will ever impacted however results come out of litigation. > > Regards > Paul Wollner > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chresgoro at gmail.com Sun Aug 1 12:35:13 2021 From: chresgoro at gmail.com (Christian Orozco) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 20:35:13 +0800 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: <62521.1627790135@segfault.tristatelogic.com> References: <62521.1627790135@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: First of all, no one here wants AFRINIC to perish. Let's just be clear on that. All of us here, in this discussion, understand the mission and the important duties of AFRINIC very well. However, if AFRINIC needs to get back to its feet first, doesn't a more capable entity be more beneficial to internet users? I do not find asking for clarity a debilitating act. Describing something as "shady" does not directly put one side into a bad light, it's just that there is more to be learned. Someone is curious about it, so that person will ask and do other means to seek answers. If only there is an urgency to inform everyone of AFRINIC's financial situation, then there will not be a point of doubt at all in the first place. Regards, Christian On Sun, Aug 1, 2021 at 11:56 AM Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: > In message , > Brian Sowers wrote: > > >The effect from the NRO activating their stability fund for AFRINIC's > >behalf will be twofold. > >First, it will certainly alleviate - in a disclosed and stable manner - > >AFRINIC's financial shortcomings to allow for it to continue operations. > > Do you have some evidence to present which would support the view that > AFRINIC will *not* be able to continue operations? > > Sorry! Silly question. Of course you don't. If you had then you would > have posted it instead of this speculative rubbish. > > >Second, the call for help from NRO certainly draws more attention to > >AFRINIC's current shady financial situation. > > Do you have some evidence to present which would support the view that > AFRINIC's financial situation is in some way "shady"? > > Sorry! Silly question. Of course you don't. If you had then you would > have posted it instead of this fake news. > > You may not be aware of this, my new mysterious Gmail friend, but I have > a bit of experience with what is and what isn't actually hard evidence. > And to be frank, you're really very bad at this "amateur detective" stuff. > > You should quit while you are behind. You're just making yourself and > your paymaster look silly and desperate now. > > > Regards, > rfg > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chresgoro at gmail.com Sun Aug 1 12:35:57 2021 From: chresgoro at gmail.com (Christian Orozco) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 20:35:57 +0800 Subject: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments In-Reply-To: References: <5836452.zqfpRbV99g@coffee-bar> <2BCE246D-270A-4C5A-BB1E-40441776EE69@delong.com> Message-ID: I participate in these discussions knowing there will be others whose points will differ from mine and I respect that. I cannot tag them as 'senseless' or just some people who 'force' their thoughts just because I cannot make them be on my side. Moreover, there are many ways of supporting AFRINIC. As a matter of fact, others who get to pinpoint AFRINIC's flaws are *supporters* of AFRINIC still! As Owen said, the CORRECTION of behavior is what's being sought. Regards, Christian On Sun, Aug 1, 2021 at 5:58 AM Arnaud AMELINA wrote: > I would like to invite the community to stop responding to the CI Staff on > this matter. I have the impression that they are using us to find > fallacious arguments to use against Afrinic while seeking to stuff our > heads with their mistaken and incongruous understanding of Afrinic's > texts. The case is before justice, we just have to support Afrinic and > ignore the henchmen of CI in their games of destruction and lies. > > French : > > Je voudrais inviter la communaut? ? ne plus r?pondre au Staff de CI sur > cette affaire. J'ai l'impression qu'il nous utilise pour trouver des > arguments fallacieux ? utiliser contre Afrinic tout en cherchant ? nous > bourrer le cr?ne deleur compr?hension erron?e et incongrue des textes > d'Afrinic. L'affaire est devant la justice, soutenons Afrinic et ignorons > les sbires de CI ? leur jeux de destruction et de mensonge. > > Regards > > -- > Arnaud > > > Le sam. 31 juil. 2021 ? 18:54, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss < > community-discuss at afrinic.net> a ?crit : > >> >> >> > On Jul 30, 2021, at 23:27 , Ish Sookun >> wrote: >> > >> > Not only this situation allowed to us to know who is supporting AFRINIC >> but >> > also bring forward those who would not hesitate to destroy the >> organization >> > for commercial end. >> > >> >> I think you are confused. Certainly, at no point have I sought the >> destruction of >> AFRINIC. Indeed, any potential destruction of AFRINIC is the direct >> result of the >> inevitable reaction when AFRINIC sought to destroy another company and >> that >> company availed itself of the legal system in defense of its contractual >> rights. >> >> Had AFRINIC stuck to its governing documents as written, rather than >> choosing >> to invent restrictions which are not codified therein and use those as an >> artifice >> to take adverse action against a resource member, there would be no basis >> for any of the current legal claims by Cloud Innovation. >> >> I still do not seek the destruction of AFRINIC, but rather the correction >> of its >> behaviors. While I am not a fan of some of the things Cloud Innovation has >> done, I see an RIR that does not operate according to its governing >> documents >> as a much greater threat to the community than anything any resource >> member >> has or could do. >> >> Owen >> >> > Regards, >> > >> > -- >> > Ish Sookun >> > >> > On Friday, 30 July 2021 22:49:36 +04 Sami Salih wrote: >> >> Thanks Noah this is really important, we need to know who is >> supporting our >> >> organization in this hard time. >> >> >> >> Get Outlook for >> >> Android >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> >> From: Noah >> >> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2021 2:35:38 PM >> >> To: AfriNIC Discuss ; General >> Discussions of >> >> AFRINIC Subject: [Community-Discuss] >> South >> >> Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments >> >> >> >> Dear Members and the wider AFRICAN Community. >> >> >> >> I note that the ISP Association of South Africa has made a public >> statement >> >> as well following TISPA'S public statement on recent AFRINIC >> developments. >> >> >> >> I thought it was important to share the same with the rest of you in >> case >> >> you missed this important message since ISPA South Africa represents >> the >> >> large voice of AFRINIC members in South Africa. >> >> >> >> So for those who are trying to show doubt that there is a loss of >> confidence >> >> in AFRINIC, the statement from ISPA-ZA should show you all that the >> >> industry representative body for ISPs in South Africa does not suffer >> from >> >> a loss of faith in AFRINIC. >> >> >> >> You can read the important statement via the link below. >> >> >> >> >> https://ispa.org.za/press_releases/ispa-statement-on-recent-afrinic-developments >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Noah >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Community-Discuss mailing list >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com Sun Aug 1 12:38:54 2021 From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 12:38:54 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net>, Message-ID: It is my (personal) view that AfriNIC board should exercise their powers and pass a transfer policy. Let those who wish to run the risks of staying with AfriNIC through this situation do so - let those who choose not to accept the risk profile transfer out - problem solved. It is entirely within the boards powers to pass emergency policy which the community can revoke at the next pdp should they wish to do so - and if AfriNIC has the support claimed by members of this list there is absolutely zero risk in this approach. Furthermore - such an approach would also remove the possibility of other legal action which may be taken against them on grounds removed from the current legal situation I remind everyone that AfriNIC has a duty to act in the interests of its members - and AfriNIC has repeatedly stated in the press - and has been echoed by various ISP associations that there is risk here - it should therefore stand that AfriNIC provide members with a way to mitigate said risk if it is within their powers to do so Again - a personal view - and again - I explicitly will not comment on the merits or demerits of this case - since I believe that the legal system should run its course and be the final arbiter of what is correct in this situation. In fact I find the amount of legal posturing on this list to be nothing short of bizarre - let the courts do their work - but let members mitigate their risks as they see fit Andrew Get Outlook for iOS ________________________________ From: Taiwo Oye Sent: Sunday, August 1, 2021 3:00:32 PM To: Paul Wollner Cc: arin-discuss ; secretariat ; Community Discuss ; apnic-talk ; ripe-list ; Members Discuss Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC?s registry service migration to other RIRs Good day all, I think paul made some sense in his first statement (tho the statement has been watered down now). If afrinic is in a financial fix or in a state where it is tending towards a financial situation where it can no longer perform its duties, it is only right to start weighing all viable options to keep the registry afloat. Paul made a suggestion - tho a bit aggressively - about the NRO coming to save the region. I will like the community to see this as ?option 1?. Does any other community member have any better suggestion in the (not so likely) situation that afrinic does not have the financial capability to carry out its duties? If so, please lay them out for discussion amongst the community members. If not, Option 1 remains the only alternative to cushion the effect of the financial breakdown. That being said. I think we should think in the direction of way forward and have a plan ready rather than crucifying Paul for being proactive. On Aug 1, 2021, at 11:01, Paul Wollner wrote: ? Hello community I think I misused the word ?take over? to spike some unfortunate sentiments. Let me try this again: In the interest of internet continuity, another RIR should help AFRINIC (by staff or infrastructure), to perform it?s core registration service function for the time being, until all AFRINIC litigation has been sorted to avoid disruption to our African end users and businesses. Regards Paul ---- On Thu, 29 Jul 2021 23:38:32 +0200 Paul Wollner wrote ---- Apologies for the duplicate post, but the initial posting was too large. The concerns expressed by TISPA, as well as other concerned parties and especially by AFRINIC's own admission in the news outlet lexpress.mu, which is available at https://ibb.co/tmWCk0k, regarding the AFRINIC?s inability to keep providing its core registry functions due to its inability to meet its financial requirements. I suggest that in order not hold end users, ISPs and any other business's hostage, for the interest of continue service of AFRINIC?s core registry service, we should urgently call for NRO fulfil their responsibility as well as commitment to the global internet to take over AFRINIC?s registration service for the time being, until litigation is settled some time later. (https://www.nro.net/accountability/rir-accountability/joint-rir-stability-fund/) That way, no end user or business will ever impacted however results come out of litigation. Regards Paul Wollner _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From taiwo.oyewande88 at gmail.com Sun Aug 1 12:55:46 2021 From: taiwo.oyewande88 at gmail.com (Taiwo Oye) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 13:55:46 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you @andrew. > It is my (personal) view that AfriNIC board should exercise their powers and pass a transfer policy - point 2 > On Aug 1, 2021, at 13:38, Andrew Alston wrote: > > ? > It is my (personal) view that AfriNIC board should exercise their powers and pass a transfer policy. > > Let those who wish to run the risks of staying with AfriNIC through this situation do so - let those who choose not to accept the risk profile transfer out - problem solved. > > It is entirely within the boards powers to pass emergency policy which the community can revoke at the next pdp should they wish to do so - and if AfriNIC has the support claimed by members of this list there is absolutely zero risk in this approach. > > Furthermore - such an approach would also remove the possibility of other legal action which may be taken against them on grounds removed from the current legal situation > > I remind everyone that AfriNIC has a duty to act in the interests of its members - and AfriNIC has repeatedly stated in the press - and has been echoed by various ISP associations that there is risk here - it should therefore stand that AfriNIC provide members with a way to mitigate said risk if it is within their powers to do so > > Again - a personal view - and again - I explicitly will not comment on the merits or demerits of this case - since I believe that the legal system should run its course and be the final arbiter of what is correct in this situation. In fact I find the amount of legal posturing on this list to be nothing short of bizarre - let the courts do their work - but let members mitigate their risks as they see fit > > > Andrew > > Get Outlook for iOS > From: Taiwo Oye > Sent: Sunday, August 1, 2021 3:00:32 PM > To: Paul Wollner > Cc: arin-discuss ; secretariat ; Community Discuss ; apnic-talk ; ripe-list ; Members Discuss > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC?s registry service migration to other RIRs > > Good day all, > > I think paul made some sense in his first statement (tho the statement has been watered down now). > > If afrinic is in a financial fix or in a state where it is tending towards a financial situation where it can no longer perform its duties, it is only right to start weighing all viable options to keep the registry afloat. > Paul made a suggestion - tho a bit aggressively - about the NRO coming to save the region. > I will like the community to see this as ?option 1?. > > Does any other community member have any better suggestion in the (not so likely) situation that afrinic does not have the financial capability to carry out its duties? > > If so, please lay them out for discussion amongst the community members. > > If not, Option 1 remains the only alternative to cushion the effect of the financial breakdown. > > That being said. I think we should think in the direction of way forward and have a plan ready rather than crucifying Paul for being proactive. > >>> On Aug 1, 2021, at 11:01, Paul Wollner wrote: >>> >> ? >> >> Hello community >> >> I think I misused the word ?take over? to spike some unfortunate sentiments. >> >> Let me try this again: >> In the interest of internet continuity, another RIR should help AFRINIC (by staff or infrastructure), to perform it?s core registration service function for the time being, until all AFRINIC litigation has been sorted to avoid disruption to our African end users and businesses. >> >> Regards >> Paul >> >> >> >> ---- On Thu, 29 Jul 2021 23:38:32 +0200 Paul Wollner wrote ---- >> >> Apologies for the duplicate post, but the initial posting was too large. >> >> The concerns expressed by TISPA, as well as other concerned parties and especially by AFRINIC's own admission in the news outlet lexpress.mu, which is available at https://ibb.co/tmWCk0k, regarding the AFRINIC?s inability to keep providing its core registry functions due to its inability to meet its financial requirements. >> >> I suggest that in order not hold end users, ISPs and any other business's hostage, for the interest of continue service of AFRINIC?s core registry service, we should urgently call for NRO fulfil their responsibility as well as commitment to the global internet to take over AFRINIC?s registration service for the time being, until litigation is settled some time later. (https://www.nro.net/accountability/rir-accountability/joint-rir-stability-fund/) >> >> That way, no end user or business will ever impacted however results come out of litigation. >> >> Regards >> Paul Wollner >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Sun Aug 1 13:06:29 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 16:06:29 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 15:43 Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss, < community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > > Let those who wish to run the risks of staying with AfriNIC through this > situation do so > - let those who choose not to accept the risk profile transfer out - > problem solved. > https://afrinic.net/policy/archive/inbound-transfer-policy Noah PS: confusion of the highest order. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jordi.palet at consulintel.es Sun Aug 1 13:08:38 2021 From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ) Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2021 15:08:38 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s__registr?= =?utf-8?q?y_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <899CE1FC-7FB1-4574-8442-9D9B76BEC4CD@consulintel.es> Even if a transfer policy is adopted, *before* any transfer AFRINIC has the right to verify the resources are being used according to the policies, RSA, documentation/justification provided when it was allocated/assigned, etc., etc. If the resources don?t follow the rules, the RIR (not just in the case of AFRINIC) has the right to enforce (before the transfer) the rules or reclaim the resources. Each RIR has sligtly different rules clearly, but in no case, a transfer policy shall be allowed to be used as a way to circumvent the existing rules of the origin RIR! Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 1/8/21 15:01, "Taiwo Oye" escribi?: Thank you @andrew. It is my (personal) view that AfriNIC board should exercise their powers and pass a transfer policy - point 2 On Aug 1, 2021, at 13:38, Andrew Alston wrote: ? It is my (personal) view that AfriNIC board should exercise their powers and pass a transfer policy. Let those who wish to run the risks of staying with AfriNIC through this situation do so - let those who choose not to accept the risk profile transfer out - problem solved. It is entirely within the boards powers to pass emergency policy which the community can revoke at the next pdp should they wish to do so - and if AfriNIC has the support claimed by members of this list there is absolutely zero risk in this approach. Furthermore - such an approach would also remove the possibility of other legal action which may be taken against them on grounds removed from the current legal situation I remind everyone that AfriNIC has a duty to act in the interests of its members - and AfriNIC has repeatedly stated in the press - and has been echoed by various ISP associations that there is risk here - it should therefore stand that AfriNIC provide members with a way to mitigate said risk if it is within their powers to do so Again - a personal view - and again - I explicitly will not comment on the merits or demerits of this case - since I believe that the legal system should run its course and be the final arbiter of what is correct in this situation. In fact I find the amount of legal posturing on this list to be nothing short of bizarre - let the courts do their work - but let members mitigate their risks as they see fit Andrew Get Outlook for iOS From: Taiwo Oye Sent: Sunday, August 1, 2021 3:00:32 PM To: Paul Wollner Cc: arin-discuss ; secretariat ; Community Discuss ; apnic-talk ; ripe-list ; Members Discuss Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC?s registry service migration to other RIRs Good day all, I think paul made some sense in his first statement (tho the statement has been watered down now). If afrinic is in a financial fix or in a state where it is tending towards a financial situation where it can no longer perform its duties, it is only right to start weighing all viable options to keep the registry afloat. Paul made a suggestion - tho a bit aggressively - about the NRO coming to save the region. I will like the community to see this as ?option 1?. Does any other community member have any better suggestion in the (not so likely) situation that afrinic does not have the financial capability to carry out its duties? If so, please lay them out for discussion amongst the community members. If not, Option 1 remains the only alternative to cushion the effect of the financial breakdown. That being said. I think we should think in the direction of way forward and have a plan ready rather than crucifying Paul for being proactive. On Aug 1, 2021, at 11:01, Paul Wollner wrote: ? Hello community I think I misused the word ?take over? to spike some unfortunate sentiments. Let me try this again: In the interest of internet continuity, another RIR should help AFRINIC (by staff or infrastructure), to perform it?s core registration service function for the time being, until all AFRINIC litigation has been sorted to avoid disruption to our African end users and businesses. Regards Paul ---- On Thu, 29 Jul 2021 23:38:32 +0200 Paul Wollner wrote ---- Apologies for the duplicate post, but the initial posting was too large. The concerns expressed by TISPA, as well as other concerned parties and especially by AFRINIC's own admission in the news outlet lexpress.mu, which is available at https://ibb.co/tmWCk0k, regarding the AFRINIC?s inability to keep providing its core registry functions due to its inability to meet its financial requirements. I suggest that in order not hold end users, ISPs and any other business's hostage, for the interest of continue service of AFRINIC?s core registry service, we should urgently call for NRO fulfil their responsibility as well as commitment to the global internet to take over AFRINIC?s registration service for the time being, until litigation is settled some time later. (https://www.nro.net/accountability/rir-accountability/joint-rir-stability-fund/) That way, no end user or business will ever impacted however results come out of litigation. Regards Paul Wollner _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com Sun Aug 1 13:11:47 2021 From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 13:11:47 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?windows-1252?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=92s_registr?= =?windows-1252?q?y_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> , Message-ID: Hi Noah, Unfortunately an inbound transfer policy does not in any way shape or form mitigate the risks articulated in the TISPA, ISPA-ZA or Mauritian press statements by AfriNIC. It is my belief that members should be permitted to transfer away from the risks articulated should they feel such risk justifies such. Again - if the support is there and members do not feel such risk is indeed valid - such a transfer policy will impose no risk on AfriNIC - it will however let members make the choice of what is right for their respective businesses and is in the best interests of members Andrew Get Outlook for iOS ________________________________ From: Noah Sent: Sunday, August 1, 2021 4:06:29 PM To: Andrew Alston Cc: Taiwo Oye ; Paul Wollner ; Community Discuss ; Members Discuss Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC?s registry service migration to other RIRs On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 15:43 Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss, > wrote: Let those who wish to run the risks of staying with AfriNIC through this situation do so - let those who choose not to accept the risk profile transfer out - problem solved. https://afrinic.net/policy/archive/inbound-transfer-policy Noah PS: confusion of the highest order. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Sun Aug 1 13:21:27 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 16:21:27 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 16:11 Andrew Alston, wrote: > Hi Noah, > Hi Andrew > Unfortunately an inbound transfer policy does not in any way shape or form > mitigate the risks articulated in the TISPA, ISPA-ZA or Mauritian press > statements by AfriNIC. > My point for that link was to remind you that you Andrew authored that proposal and it was submitted on 17 June 2016 proposing for Inbound IPv4 transfers into Africa. > It is my belief that members should be permitted to transfer away from the > risks articulated should they feel such risk justifies such. > Today 1st Aug 2021, you Andrew in your personal opinion is now calling for members to transfer IPv4 address out of the AFRINIC region. I am pointing out the inconsistencies in your beliefs dude. Cheers, Noah > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nishal at controlfreak.co.za Sun Aug 1 13:25:04 2021 From: nishal at controlfreak.co.za (Nishal Goburdhan) Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2021 15:25:04 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd->community-dsicuss] Last Call - RPKI ROAs for Unallocated and Unassigned AFRINIC Address Space AFPUB-2019-GEN-006-DRAFT03. In-Reply-To: References: <1C12AC05-E9CD-4FA9-8B67-039201F609DE@consulintel.es> <36CC4A1B-D2A1-4213-AEE6-7B874AD38D5C@delong.com> <0D6A136C-562C-4A27-AD3B-3B842FA1B8EF@controlfreak.co.za> <1084A39B-EA01-4ACD-83B1-56A122B74C89@delong.com> <47A0F003-0FD1-4CAF-8523-90AAA5CF6AEF@controlfreak.co.za> Message-ID: <88A9C79C-5EFF-48F3-8E7C-463766A6EB42@controlfreak.co.za> On 31 Jul 2021, at 22:02, Owen DeLong wrote: >> On Jul 31, 2021, at 03:58 , Nishal Goburdhan >> wrote: > > So your claim is [i usually don?t post here, but i?d like to clear up one thing]: no owen. that is not my claim. what i said (which you inadvertently seemed to have snipped) was that this is a possible interpretation, and : ?.. for the record, i don?t pretend that *my* interpretation is correct. but merely that the order was easy to misinterpret, ? > Sure, there?s probably room for clever attorneys to engage in some > level of sophistry around this, one might also argue that this clever sophistry is exactly the premise of the CI vs. afrinic case. IANAL, so, # i don?t pretend to ascribe to this level of sophistry, and # i have no interest in discussing your case -n. From lamiaachnayti at gmail.com Sun Aug 1 13:40:40 2021 From: lamiaachnayti at gmail.com (Lamiaa Chnayti) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 14:40:40 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> Message-ID: It makes absolute sense to pass a resource transfer policy that gives the resource members the option of not getting dragged along the risky mess AFRINIC is putting them through. But I don?t see the necessity of passing an emergency policy when we already have a resource transfer policy that has been discussed and has achieved consensus before, so it only makes sense that the board ratifies the *AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT04.* Best regards, Lamiaa CHNAYTI On Sun, 1 Aug 2021 at 13:39, Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss < community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > It is my (personal) view that AfriNIC board should exercise their powers > and pass a transfer policy. > > Let those who wish to run the risks of staying with AfriNIC through this > situation do so - let those who choose not to accept the risk profile > transfer out - problem solved. > > It is entirely within the boards powers to pass emergency policy which the > community can revoke at the next pdp should they wish to do so - and if > AfriNIC has the support claimed by members of this list there is absolutely > zero risk in this approach. > > Furthermore - such an approach would also remove the possibility of other > legal action which may be taken against them on grounds removed from the > current legal situation > > I remind everyone that AfriNIC has a duty to act in the interests of its > members - and AfriNIC has repeatedly stated in the press - and has been > echoed by various ISP associations that there is risk here - it should > therefore stand that AfriNIC provide members with a way to mitigate said > risk if it is within their powers to do so > > Again - a personal view - and again - I explicitly will not comment on the > merits or demerits of this case - since I believe that the legal system > should run its course and be the final arbiter of what is correct in this > situation. In fact I find the amount of legal posturing on this list to be > nothing short of bizarre - let the courts do their work - but let members > mitigate their risks as they see fit > > > Andrew > > Get Outlook for iOS > ------------------------------ > *From:* Taiwo Oye > *Sent:* Sunday, August 1, 2021 3:00:32 PM > *To:* Paul Wollner > *Cc:* arin-discuss ; secretariat < > secretariat at nro.net>; Community Discuss ; > apnic-talk ; ripe-list ; > Members Discuss > *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC?s registry service > migration to other RIRs > > Good day all, > > I think paul made some sense in his first statement (tho the statement has > been watered down now). > > If afrinic is in a financial fix or in a state where it is tending towards > a financial situation where it can no longer perform its duties, it is only > right to start weighing all viable options to keep the registry afloat. > Paul made a suggestion - tho a bit aggressively - about the NRO coming to > save the region. > I will like the community to see this as ?option 1?. > > Does any other community member have any better suggestion in the (not so > likely) situation that afrinic does not have the financial capability to > carry out its duties? > > If so, please lay them out for discussion amongst the community members. > > If not, Option 1 remains the only alternative to cushion the effect of the > financial breakdown. > > That being said. I think we should think in the direction of way forward > and have a plan ready rather than crucifying Paul for being proactive. > > On Aug 1, 2021, at 11:01, Paul Wollner > wrote: > > ? > > Hello community > > I think I misused the word ?take over? to spike some unfortunate > sentiments. > > Let me try this again: > In the interest of internet continuity, another RIR should help AFRINIC > (by staff or infrastructure), to perform it?s core registration service > function for the time being, until all AFRINIC litigation has been sorted > to avoid disruption to our African end users and businesses. > > Regards > Paul > > > > ---- On Thu, 29 Jul 2021 23:38:32 +0200 *Paul Wollner > >* wrote > ---- > > Apologies for the duplicate post, but the initial posting was too large. > > The concerns expressed by TISPA, as well as other concerned parties and > especially by AFRINIC's own admission in the news outlet lexpress.mu, > which is available at https://ibb.co/tmWCk0k, regarding the AFRINIC?s > inability to keep providing its core registry functions due to its > inability to meet its financial requirements. > > I suggest that in order not hold end users, ISPs and any other business's > hostage, for the interest of continue service of AFRINIC?s core registry > service, we should urgently call for NRO fulfil their responsibility as > well as commitment to the global internet to take over AFRINIC?s > registration service for the time being, until litigation is settled some > time later. ( > https://www.nro.net/accountability/rir-accountability/joint-rir-stability-fund/ > ) > > That way, no end user or business will ever impacted however results come > out of litigation. > > Regards > Paul Wollner > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robertford2 at icloud.com Sun Aug 1 13:47:50 2021 From: robertford2 at icloud.com (robert ford) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 15:47:50 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <15BB5F7B-2B73-4CEB-BAC5-0C929D66DB84@icloud.com> Typical of Andrew about transfer of rights. He clearly knows what he would use such transfer policy for. Glad rightful thinking members of African Internet community understand the baits RF Sent from my iPhone > On 1 Aug 2021, at 15:44, Lamiaa Chnayti wrote: > > ? > It makes absolute sense to pass a resource transfer policy that gives the resource members the option of not getting dragged along the risky mess AFRINIC is putting them through. > But I don?t see the necessity of passing an emergency policy when we already have a resource transfer policy that has been discussed and has achieved consensus before, so it only makes sense that the board ratifies the AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT04. > > Best regards, > Lamiaa CHNAYTI > > > >> On Sun, 1 Aug 2021 at 13:39, Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss wrote: >> It is my (personal) view that AfriNIC board should exercise their powers and pass a transfer policy. >> >> Let those who wish to run the risks of staying with AfriNIC through this situation do so - let those who choose not to accept the risk profile transfer out - problem solved. >> >> It is entirely within the boards powers to pass emergency policy which the community can revoke at the next pdp should they wish to do so - and if AfriNIC has the support claimed by members of this list there is absolutely zero risk in this approach. >> >> Furthermore - such an approach would also remove the possibility of other legal action which may be taken against them on grounds removed from the current legal situation >> >> I remind everyone that AfriNIC has a duty to act in the interests of its members - and AfriNIC has repeatedly stated in the press - and has been echoed by various ISP associations that there is risk here - it should therefore stand that AfriNIC provide members with a way to mitigate said risk if it is within their powers to do so >> >> Again - a personal view - and again - I explicitly will not comment on the merits or demerits of this case - since I believe that the legal system should run its course and be the final arbiter of what is correct in this situation. In fact I find the amount of legal posturing on this list to be nothing short of bizarre - let the courts do their work - but let members mitigate their risks as they see fit >> >> >> Andrew >> >> Get Outlook for iOS >> From: Taiwo Oye >> Sent: Sunday, August 1, 2021 3:00:32 PM >> To: Paul Wollner >> Cc: arin-discuss ; secretariat ; Community Discuss ; apnic-talk ; ripe-list ; Members Discuss >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC?s registry service migration to other RIRs >> >> Good day all, >> >> I think paul made some sense in his first statement (tho the statement has been watered down now). >> >> If afrinic is in a financial fix or in a state where it is tending towards a financial situation where it can no longer perform its duties, it is only right to start weighing all viable options to keep the registry afloat. >> Paul made a suggestion - tho a bit aggressively - about the NRO coming to save the region. >> I will like the community to see this as ?option 1?. >> >> Does any other community member have any better suggestion in the (not so likely) situation that afrinic does not have the financial capability to carry out its duties? >> >> If so, please lay them out for discussion amongst the community members. >> >> If not, Option 1 remains the only alternative to cushion the effect of the financial breakdown. >> >> That being said. I think we should think in the direction of way forward and have a plan ready rather than crucifying Paul for being proactive. >> >>> On Aug 1, 2021, at 11:01, Paul Wollner wrote: >>> >>> ? >>> >>> Hello community >>> >>> I think I misused the word ?take over? to spike some unfortunate sentiments. >>> >>> Let me try this again: >>> In the interest of internet continuity, another RIR should help AFRINIC (by staff or infrastructure), to perform it?s core registration service function for the time being, until all AFRINIC litigation has been sorted to avoid disruption to our African end users and businesses. >>> >>> Regards >>> Paul >>> >>> >>> >>> ---- On Thu, 29 Jul 2021 23:38:32 +0200 Paul Wollner wrote ---- >>> >>> Apologies for the duplicate post, but the initial posting was too large. >>> >>> The concerns expressed by TISPA, as well as other concerned parties and especially by AFRINIC's own admission in the news outlet lexpress.mu, which is available at https://ibb.co/tmWCk0k, regarding the AFRINIC?s inability to keep providing its core registry functions due to its inability to meet its financial requirements. >>> >>> I suggest that in order not hold end users, ISPs and any other business's hostage, for the interest of continue service of AFRINIC?s core registry service, we should urgently call for NRO fulfil their responsibility as well as commitment to the global internet to take over AFRINIC?s registration service for the time being, until litigation is settled some time later. (https://www.nro.net/accountability/rir-accountability/joint-rir-stability-fund/) >>> >>> That way, no end user or business will ever impacted however results come out of litigation. >>> >>> Regards >>> Paul Wollner >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Community-Discuss mailing list >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lamiaachnayti at gmail.com Sun Aug 1 14:05:41 2021 From: lamiaachnayti at gmail.com (Lamiaa Chnayti) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 15:05:41 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments In-Reply-To: References: <5836452.zqfpRbV99g@coffee-bar> <2BCE246D-270A-4C5A-BB1E-40441776EE69@delong.com> Message-ID: Permettez-moi de rectifier qu'il ne s'agit pas de souverainet? num?rique africaine, mais plut?t de connectivit? mondiale. Internet est global. ?tant moi-m?me africaine, s'il existe une telle chose appel?e souverainet? num?rique africaine, je suppose qu'il existe des choses comme la souverainet? num?rique europ?enne, la souverainet? latino-am?ricaine etc.. Et comme ?a nous commencerons ? nous fixer tous des limites, ce qui veut dire que nous ne devrions probablement pas acc?der ? des sites Web qui sont sous la souverainet? d?autres r?gions. Cordialement, Lamiaa On Sun, 1 Aug 2021 at 07:29, Ousmane Ly wrote: > Dear Noah. > Congratulations for your action on african digital sovregnity! I am very > Proud of your actions. You have our support. > Best > ================================================= > Dr Ousmane Ly > Consultant en Sant? Publique, Globale/Mondiale, Digitale/Num?rique et > Connect?e > Tel Mobile : +223 76 13 44 70 accessible en roaming > ================================================= > Ce message ?lectronique ainsi que toutes les pi?ces jointes est destin? ? > ?tre re?u uniquement par les personnes autoris?es ? recevoir les > informations confidentielles qu'il peut contenir. Toute diffusion, > publication, totale ou partielle ou divulgation sous quelque forme que ce > soit non express?ment autoris?es de ce message, sont interdites. Veuillez > ne pas lire, copier, transf?rer ou stocker ce message si vous n??tes pas un > destinataire attendu de celui-ci. Si vous avez re?u ce message par erreur, > veuillez le transf?rer ? l?exp?diteur et le supprimer compl?tement de votre > syst?me informatique. > > > Le dim. 1 ao?t 2021 ? 02:12, Noah a ?crit : > >> >> On Sat, 31 Jul 2021, 21:52 Owen DeLong, wrote: >> >>> >>> Had AFRINIC stuck to its governing documents as written, rather than >>> choosing >>> to invent restrictions which are not codified therein >> >> >> I refer you to the Resource Services Agreement Section 4(c)(i) whose >> wordings are totally clear and unambiguous. >> >> >> While I am not a fan of some of the things Cloud Innovation has >>> done, >> >> >> >> Ooh Owen.... you know what... just enjoy your paycheck from Cloud >> Innovation. >> >> The things they have done are known and we don't need you to remind the >> community. >> >> >> I see an RIR that does not operate according to its governing documents >>> >> >> I refer you to the Resource Services Agreement Section 4(c)(i) whose >> wordings are totally clear and unambiguous. >> >> Noah >> _______________________________________________ >> Members-Discuss mailing list >> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss >> > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sienqle at gmail.com Sun Aug 1 14:54:26 2021 From: sienqle at gmail.com (Thizwilondi Malupa) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 16:54:26 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: <15BB5F7B-2B73-4CEB-BAC5-0C929D66DB84@icloud.com> References: <15BB5F7B-2B73-4CEB-BAC5-0C929D66DB84@icloud.com> Message-ID: Hi Robert , I think Andrew made a very good point, despite your argument that he is pushing for the transfer policy for some other reasons. Passing a transfer policy would by all means reduce the risk of having AFRINIC badly affected entirely , including this community . And I think if we have a transfer policy in place it will also be good for future challenges. But not that it will always be a solution to look at during a crisis , but it will be helpful to have it in case it needs to be used . I suggest you look at it in a way where you put the interest of the future of the AFRINIC mind. Regards, Ishmael On Sun, Aug 1, 2021 at 3:50 PM robert ford via Community-Discuss < community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > Typical of Andrew about transfer of rights. He clearly knows what he would > use such transfer policy for. > > Glad rightful thinking members of African Internet community understand > the baits > > RF > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 1 Aug 2021, at 15:44, Lamiaa Chnayti wrote: > > ? > > It makes absolute sense to pass a resource transfer policy that gives the > resource members the option of not getting dragged along the risky mess > AFRINIC is putting them through. > > But I don?t see the necessity of passing an emergency policy when we > already have a resource transfer policy that has been discussed and has > achieved consensus before, so it only makes sense that the board ratifies > the *AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT04.* > > > Best regards, > Lamiaa CHNAYTI > > > > On Sun, 1 Aug 2021 at 13:39, Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss < > community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > >> It is my (personal) view that AfriNIC board should exercise their powers >> and pass a transfer policy. >> >> Let those who wish to run the risks of staying with AfriNIC through this >> situation do so - let those who choose not to accept the risk profile >> transfer out - problem solved. >> >> It is entirely within the boards powers to pass emergency policy which >> the community can revoke at the next pdp should they wish to do so - and if >> AfriNIC has the support claimed by members of this list there is absolutely >> zero risk in this approach. >> >> Furthermore - such an approach would also remove the possibility of other >> legal action which may be taken against them on grounds removed from the >> current legal situation >> >> I remind everyone that AfriNIC has a duty to act in the interests of its >> members - and AfriNIC has repeatedly stated in the press - and has been >> echoed by various ISP associations that there is risk here - it should >> therefore stand that AfriNIC provide members with a way to mitigate said >> risk if it is within their powers to do so >> >> Again - a personal view - and again - I explicitly will not comment on >> the merits or demerits of this case - since I believe that the legal system >> should run its course and be the final arbiter of what is correct in this >> situation. In fact I find the amount of legal posturing on this list to be >> nothing short of bizarre - let the courts do their work - but let members >> mitigate their risks as they see fit >> >> >> Andrew >> >> Get Outlook for iOS >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Taiwo Oye >> *Sent:* Sunday, August 1, 2021 3:00:32 PM >> *To:* Paul Wollner >> *Cc:* arin-discuss ; secretariat < >> secretariat at nro.net>; Community Discuss ; >> apnic-talk ; ripe-list ; >> Members Discuss >> *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC?s registry service >> migration to other RIRs >> >> Good day all, >> >> I think paul made some sense in his first statement (tho the statement >> has been watered down now). >> >> If afrinic is in a financial fix or in a state where it is tending >> towards a financial situation where it can no longer perform its duties, it >> is only right to start weighing all viable options to keep the registry >> afloat. >> Paul made a suggestion - tho a bit aggressively - about the NRO coming to >> save the region. >> I will like the community to see this as ?option 1?. >> >> Does any other community member have any better suggestion in the (not so >> likely) situation that afrinic does not have the financial capability to >> carry out its duties? >> >> If so, please lay them out for discussion amongst the community members. >> >> If not, Option 1 remains the only alternative to cushion the effect of >> the financial breakdown. >> >> That being said. I think we should think in the direction of way forward >> and have a plan ready rather than crucifying Paul for being proactive. >> >> On Aug 1, 2021, at 11:01, Paul Wollner >> wrote: >> >> ? >> >> Hello community >> >> I think I misused the word ?take over? to spike some unfortunate >> sentiments. >> >> Let me try this again: >> In the interest of internet continuity, another RIR should help AFRINIC >> (by staff or infrastructure), to perform it?s core registration service >> function for the time being, until all AFRINIC litigation has been sorted >> to avoid disruption to our African end users and businesses. >> >> Regards >> Paul >> >> >> >> ---- On Thu, 29 Jul 2021 23:38:32 +0200 *Paul Wollner >> >* wrote >> ---- >> >> Apologies for the duplicate post, but the initial posting was too large. >> >> The concerns expressed by TISPA, as well as other concerned parties and >> especially by AFRINIC's own admission in the news outlet lexpress.mu, >> which is available at https://ibb.co/tmWCk0k, regarding the AFRINIC?s >> inability to keep providing its core registry functions due to its >> inability to meet its financial requirements. >> >> I suggest that in order not hold end users, ISPs and any other business's >> hostage, for the interest of continue service of AFRINIC?s core registry >> service, we should urgently call for NRO fulfil their responsibility as >> well as commitment to the global internet to take over AFRINIC?s >> registration service for the time being, until litigation is settled some >> time later. ( >> https://www.nro.net/accountability/rir-accountability/joint-rir-stability-fund/ >> ) >> >> That way, no end user or business will ever impacted however results come >> out of litigation. >> >> Regards >> Paul Wollner >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From geier at geier.ne.tz Sun Aug 1 15:27:28 2021 From: geier at geier.ne.tz (Frank Habicht) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 18:27:28 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: <15BB5F7B-2B73-4CEB-BAC5-0C929D66DB84@icloud.com> Message-ID: Hi, On 01/08/2021 17:54, Thizwilondi Malupa wrote: > Hi Robert ,? > > I think Andrew made a very good point, despite your argument?that he is > pushing for the? transfer? policy for some other reasons. Passing a > transfer policy would? by all means reduce the risk of having AFRINIC > badly affected entirely , including this community? . I think Cloud Innovation dropping all lawsuits would have the same effect, and that is the way I would like to suggest. Frank From erickj.lagon at gmail.com Sun Aug 1 15:27:55 2021 From: erickj.lagon at gmail.com (Erick Joshua Lagon) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 23:27:55 +0800 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: <15BB5F7B-2B73-4CEB-BAC5-0C929D66DB84@icloud.com> Message-ID: The implementation of the resource transfer policy ( https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2019-v4-003-d4#details) would enable AFRINIC to reduce the risks in case their situation goes sideways. However, I do not agree with an emergency policy when a transfer policy is awaiting implementation. They should focus on that transfer policy implementation because it is the right thing to do now. Regards, Erick On Sun, Aug 1, 2021 at 10:55 PM Thizwilondi Malupa wrote: > Hi Robert , > > I think Andrew made a very good point, despite your argument that he is > pushing for the transfer policy for some other reasons. Passing a > transfer policy would by all means reduce the risk of having AFRINIC badly > affected entirely , including this community . And I think if we have a > transfer policy in place it will also be good for future challenges. But > not that it will always be a solution to look at during a crisis , but it > will be helpful to have it in case it needs to be used . I suggest you > look at it in a way where you put the interest of the future of the > AFRINIC mind. > > Regards, > Ishmael > > On Sun, Aug 1, 2021 at 3:50 PM robert ford via Community-Discuss < > community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > >> Typical of Andrew about transfer of rights. He clearly knows what he >> would use such transfer policy for. >> >> Glad rightful thinking members of African Internet community understand >> the baits >> >> RF >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 1 Aug 2021, at 15:44, Lamiaa Chnayti wrote: >> >> ? >> >> It makes absolute sense to pass a resource transfer policy that gives the >> resource members the option of not getting dragged along the risky mess >> AFRINIC is putting them through. >> >> But I don?t see the necessity of passing an emergency policy when we >> already have a resource transfer policy that has been discussed and has >> achieved consensus before, so it only makes sense that the board ratifies >> the *AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT04.* >> >> >> Best regards, >> Lamiaa CHNAYTI >> >> >> >> On Sun, 1 Aug 2021 at 13:39, Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss < >> community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: >> >>> It is my (personal) view that AfriNIC board should exercise their powers >>> and pass a transfer policy. >>> >>> Let those who wish to run the risks of staying with AfriNIC through this >>> situation do so - let those who choose not to accept the risk profile >>> transfer out - problem solved. >>> >>> It is entirely within the boards powers to pass emergency policy which >>> the community can revoke at the next pdp should they wish to do so - and if >>> AfriNIC has the support claimed by members of this list there is absolutely >>> zero risk in this approach. >>> >>> Furthermore - such an approach would also remove the possibility of >>> other legal action which may be taken against them on grounds removed from >>> the current legal situation >>> >>> I remind everyone that AfriNIC has a duty to act in the interests of its >>> members - and AfriNIC has repeatedly stated in the press - and has been >>> echoed by various ISP associations that there is risk here - it should >>> therefore stand that AfriNIC provide members with a way to mitigate said >>> risk if it is within their powers to do so >>> >>> Again - a personal view - and again - I explicitly will not comment on >>> the merits or demerits of this case - since I believe that the legal system >>> should run its course and be the final arbiter of what is correct in this >>> situation. In fact I find the amount of legal posturing on this list to be >>> nothing short of bizarre - let the courts do their work - but let members >>> mitigate their risks as they see fit >>> >>> >>> Andrew >>> >>> Get Outlook for iOS >>> ------------------------------ >>> *From:* Taiwo Oye >>> *Sent:* Sunday, August 1, 2021 3:00:32 PM >>> *To:* Paul Wollner >>> *Cc:* arin-discuss ; secretariat < >>> secretariat at nro.net>; Community Discuss ; >>> apnic-talk ; ripe-list ; >>> Members Discuss >>> *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC?s registry service >>> migration to other RIRs >>> >>> Good day all, >>> >>> I think paul made some sense in his first statement (tho the statement >>> has been watered down now). >>> >>> If afrinic is in a financial fix or in a state where it is tending >>> towards a financial situation where it can no longer perform its duties, it >>> is only right to start weighing all viable options to keep the registry >>> afloat. >>> Paul made a suggestion - tho a bit aggressively - about the NRO coming >>> to save the region. >>> I will like the community to see this as ?option 1?. >>> >>> Does any other community member have any better suggestion in the (not >>> so likely) situation that afrinic does not have the financial capability to >>> carry out its duties? >>> >>> If so, please lay them out for discussion amongst the community members. >>> >>> If not, Option 1 remains the only alternative to cushion the effect of >>> the financial breakdown. >>> >>> That being said. I think we should think in the direction of way forward >>> and have a plan ready rather than crucifying Paul for being proactive. >>> >>> On Aug 1, 2021, at 11:01, Paul Wollner >>> wrote: >>> >>> ? >>> >>> Hello community >>> >>> I think I misused the word ?take over? to spike some unfortunate >>> sentiments. >>> >>> Let me try this again: >>> In the interest of internet continuity, another RIR should help AFRINIC >>> (by staff or infrastructure), to perform it?s core registration service >>> function for the time being, until all AFRINIC litigation has been sorted >>> to avoid disruption to our African end users and businesses. >>> >>> Regards >>> Paul >>> >>> >>> >>> ---- On Thu, 29 Jul 2021 23:38:32 +0200 *Paul Wollner >>> >* >>> wrote ---- >>> >>> Apologies for the duplicate post, but the initial posting was too large. >>> >>> The concerns expressed by TISPA, as well as other concerned parties and >>> especially by AFRINIC's own admission in the news outlet lexpress.mu, >>> which is available at https://ibb.co/tmWCk0k, regarding the AFRINIC?s >>> inability to keep providing its core registry functions due to its >>> inability to meet its financial requirements. >>> >>> I suggest that in order not hold end users, ISPs and any other >>> business's hostage, for the interest of continue service of AFRINIC?s core >>> registry service, we should urgently call for NRO fulfil their >>> responsibility as well as commitment to the global internet to take over >>> AFRINIC?s registration service for the time being, until litigation is >>> settled some time later. ( >>> https://www.nro.net/accountability/rir-accountability/joint-rir-stability-fund/ >>> ) >>> >>> That way, no end user or business will ever impacted however results >>> come out of litigation. >>> >>> Regards >>> Paul Wollner >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Community-Discuss mailing list >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Community-Discuss mailing list >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amelnaud at gmail.com Sun Aug 1 15:43:04 2021 From: amelnaud at gmail.com (Arnaud AMELINA) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 15:43:04 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> Message-ID: Andrew, Andrew, Andrew, Tu reste ?gal ? toi m?me, tu changeras apparemment jamais, pour devenir un peu plus sage. Cette proposition ne me surprend pas du tout car tu fais partie des amis du patron de CI, tu ?tais au bord quand l'autorisation de lui attribuer les ressources suppl?mentaires, tu faisais partie aussi de ceux qui ont combattu la proposition de politique sur Review, parce que cette politique allait montrer certainement au grands jours cette magouille. Demander de ratifier ou de mettre en place une politique de transfert pour que ceux qui ce sentent menacer par la cabale engendr?e par ton ami, partent avec les ressources d'Afrinic vers un autre registre, c'est triste et lamentable. S'ils ce sentent menacer qu'ils aillent prendre leur ressources ? l'ext?rieur l? o? le transfert est permis ou, au pr?t des brokers, personne ne les blamera; mais les ressources d'Afrinic restent en Afrique n'en d?plaise ? quiconque. Celui qui n'est pas content du service d'Afrinic il peut aller voir ailleurs. Surtout s'il n'appartient pas ? la communaut? internet africaine. -- Arnaud Le dim. 1 ao?t 2021 ? 13:14, Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss < community-discuss at afrinic.net> a ?crit : > Hi Noah, > > Unfortunately an inbound transfer policy does not in any way shape or form > mitigate the risks articulated in the TISPA, ISPA-ZA or Mauritian press > statements by AfriNIC. > > It is my belief that members should be permitted to transfer away from the > risks articulated should they feel such risk justifies such. > > Again - if the support is there and members do not feel such risk is > indeed valid - such a transfer policy will impose no risk on AfriNIC - it > will however let members make the choice of what is right for their > respective businesses and is in the best interests of members > > Andrew > > Get Outlook for iOS > ------------------------------ > *From:* Noah > *Sent:* Sunday, August 1, 2021 4:06:29 PM > *To:* Andrew Alston > *Cc:* Taiwo Oye ; Paul Wollner < > paul.wollner at africaoncloud.net>; Community Discuss < > community-discuss at afrinic.net>; Members Discuss < > members-discuss at afrinic.net> > *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC?s registry service > migration to other RIRs > > > On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 15:43 Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss, < > community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > > > Let those who wish to run the risks of staying with AfriNIC through this > situation do so > > - let those who choose not to accept the risk profile transfer out - > problem solved. > > > https://afrinic.net/policy/archive/inbound-transfer-policy > > Noah > PS: confusion of the highest order. > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amelnaud at gmail.com Sun Aug 1 15:48:10 2021 From: amelnaud at gmail.com (Arnaud AMELINA) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 15:48:10 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments In-Reply-To: References: <5836452.zqfpRbV99g@coffee-bar> <2BCE246D-270A-4C5A-BB1E-40441776EE69@delong.com> Message-ID: Erreur d'interpr?tation de la notion de souverainet? num?rique. Cette souverainet? s'applique au contenu pas au support. Les ressources critiques que g?re Afrinic sont destin?s ? un usage Africain, pour la r?gion africaine. Mais les contenus peuvent ?tre visibles de partout (accessibilit? mondiale). Pas de confusion, merci. -- Arnaud Le dim. 1 ao?t 2021 ? 14:54, Lamiaa Chnayti a ?crit : > Permettez-moi de rectifier qu'il ne s'agit pas de souverainet? num?rique > africaine, mais plut?t de connectivit? mondiale. Internet est global. ?tant > moi-m?me africaine, s'il existe une telle chose appel?e souverainet? > num?rique africaine, je suppose qu'il existe des choses comme la > souverainet? num?rique europ?enne, la souverainet? latino-am?ricaine etc.. > Et comme ?a nous commencerons ? nous fixer tous des limites, ce qui veut > dire que nous ne devrions probablement pas acc?der ? des sites Web qui sont > sous la souverainet? d?autres r?gions. > > Cordialement, > Lamiaa > > > On Sun, 1 Aug 2021 at 07:29, Ousmane Ly wrote: > >> Dear Noah. >> Congratulations for your action on african digital sovregnity! I am very >> Proud of your actions. You have our support. >> Best >> ================================================= >> Dr Ousmane Ly >> Consultant en Sant? Publique, Globale/Mondiale, Digitale/Num?rique et >> Connect?e >> Tel Mobile : +223 76 13 44 70 accessible en roaming >> ================================================= >> Ce message ?lectronique ainsi que toutes les pi?ces jointes est destin? ? >> ?tre re?u uniquement par les personnes autoris?es ? recevoir les >> informations confidentielles qu'il peut contenir. Toute diffusion, >> publication, totale ou partielle ou divulgation sous quelque forme que ce >> soit non express?ment autoris?es de ce message, sont interdites. Veuillez >> ne pas lire, copier, transf?rer ou stocker ce message si vous n??tes pas un >> destinataire attendu de celui-ci. Si vous avez re?u ce message par erreur, >> veuillez le transf?rer ? l?exp?diteur et le supprimer compl?tement de votre >> syst?me informatique. >> >> >> Le dim. 1 ao?t 2021 ? 02:12, Noah a ?crit : >> >>> >>> On Sat, 31 Jul 2021, 21:52 Owen DeLong, wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Had AFRINIC stuck to its governing documents as written, rather than >>>> choosing >>>> to invent restrictions which are not codified therein >>> >>> >>> I refer you to the Resource Services Agreement Section 4(c)(i) whose >>> wordings are totally clear and unambiguous. >>> >>> >>> While I am not a fan of some of the things Cloud Innovation has >>>> done, >>> >>> >>> >>> Ooh Owen.... you know what... just enjoy your paycheck from Cloud >>> Innovation. >>> >>> The things they have done are known and we don't need you to remind the >>> community. >>> >>> >>> I see an RIR that does not operate according to its governing documents >>>> >>> >>> I refer you to the Resource Services Agreement Section 4(c)(i) whose >>> wordings are totally clear and unambiguous. >>> >>> Noah >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Members-Discuss mailing list >>> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Sun Aug 1 16:03:47 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 19:03:47 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: <15BB5F7B-2B73-4CEB-BAC5-0C929D66DB84@icloud.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 1, 2021 at 6:33 PM Erick Joshua Lagon wrote: > The implementation of the resource transfer policy ( > https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2019-v4-003-d4#details) would > enable AFRINIC to reduce the risks in case their situation goes sideways. > That resource transfer policy is under two appeals [1] [2] considering it did not follow the PDP process but was rushed through by ex co-chairs in one of the most controversial ways ever. In fact AFRINIC cautioned that such a policy would lead to large resource members with millions of IPv4 addresses to transfer out of the region, case in point, CIL. In the history of the AFRINIC PDP, no policy proposal has been rushed through multiple versions in the span of 3 months like the self-serving *resource transfer policy*. Time is everything and we can all now witness why. *AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT04 | 5 October 2020 Changes AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT03 | 21 Sept 2020 ChangesAFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT02 | 13 Aug 2020 Changes* AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT01 | 30 Oct 2019 The implementation of such a dangerous resource transfer policy would benefit *LARUS* further as per this article titled "*Gold investment opportunities in the Information Age: IPv4 address has unlimited potential*" Take time and read the motive here *https://www.larus.net/news/p/441 * Cheers, *Noah* 1. https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2020/011753.html 2. https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2020/011887.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From houssainyass at gmail.com Sun Aug 1 16:16:30 2021 From: houssainyass at gmail.com (Yas Houssain) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 17:16:30 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: <15BB5F7B-2B73-4CEB-BAC5-0C929D66DB84@icloud.com> Message-ID: +1 Joshua Regards, Houssain Yas Le dim. 1 ao?t 2021 ? 16:30, Erick Joshua Lagon a ?crit : > The implementation of the resource transfer policy ( > https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2019-v4-003-d4#details) would > enable AFRINIC to reduce the risks in case their situation goes sideways. > However, I do not agree with an emergency policy when a transfer policy is > awaiting implementation. They should focus on that transfer policy > implementation because it is the right thing to do now. > > Regards, > Erick > > On Sun, Aug 1, 2021 at 10:55 PM Thizwilondi Malupa > wrote: > >> Hi Robert , >> >> I think Andrew made a very good point, despite your argument that he is >> pushing for the transfer policy for some other reasons. Passing a >> transfer policy would by all means reduce the risk of having AFRINIC badly >> affected entirely , including this community . And I think if we have a >> transfer policy in place it will also be good for future challenges. But >> not that it will always be a solution to look at during a crisis , but it >> will be helpful to have it in case it needs to be used . I suggest you >> look at it in a way where you put the interest of the future of the >> AFRINIC mind. >> >> Regards, >> Ishmael >> >> On Sun, Aug 1, 2021 at 3:50 PM robert ford via Community-Discuss < >> community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: >> >>> Typical of Andrew about transfer of rights. He clearly knows what he >>> would use such transfer policy for. >>> >>> Glad rightful thinking members of African Internet community understand >>> the baits >>> >>> RF >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On 1 Aug 2021, at 15:44, Lamiaa Chnayti wrote: >>> >>> ? >>> >>> It makes absolute sense to pass a resource transfer policy that gives >>> the resource members the option of not getting dragged along the risky mess >>> AFRINIC is putting them through. >>> >>> But I don?t see the necessity of passing an emergency policy when we >>> already have a resource transfer policy that has been discussed and has >>> achieved consensus before, so it only makes sense that the board ratifies >>> the *AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT04.* >>> >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Lamiaa CHNAYTI >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, 1 Aug 2021 at 13:39, Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss < >>> community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: >>> >>>> It is my (personal) view that AfriNIC board should exercise their >>>> powers and pass a transfer policy. >>>> >>>> Let those who wish to run the risks of staying with AfriNIC through >>>> this situation do so - let those who choose not to accept the risk profile >>>> transfer out - problem solved. >>>> >>>> It is entirely within the boards powers to pass emergency policy which >>>> the community can revoke at the next pdp should they wish to do so - and if >>>> AfriNIC has the support claimed by members of this list there is absolutely >>>> zero risk in this approach. >>>> >>>> Furthermore - such an approach would also remove the possibility of >>>> other legal action which may be taken against them on grounds removed from >>>> the current legal situation >>>> >>>> I remind everyone that AfriNIC has a duty to act in the interests of >>>> its members - and AfriNIC has repeatedly stated in the press - and has been >>>> echoed by various ISP associations that there is risk here - it should >>>> therefore stand that AfriNIC provide members with a way to mitigate said >>>> risk if it is within their powers to do so >>>> >>>> Again - a personal view - and again - I explicitly will not comment on >>>> the merits or demerits of this case - since I believe that the legal system >>>> should run its course and be the final arbiter of what is correct in this >>>> situation. In fact I find the amount of legal posturing on this list to be >>>> nothing short of bizarre - let the courts do their work - but let members >>>> mitigate their risks as they see fit >>>> >>>> >>>> Andrew >>>> >>>> Get Outlook for iOS >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> *From:* Taiwo Oye >>>> *Sent:* Sunday, August 1, 2021 3:00:32 PM >>>> *To:* Paul Wollner >>>> *Cc:* arin-discuss ; secretariat < >>>> secretariat at nro.net>; Community Discuss ; >>>> apnic-talk ; ripe-list ; >>>> Members Discuss >>>> *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC?s registry service >>>> migration to other RIRs >>>> >>>> Good day all, >>>> >>>> I think paul made some sense in his first statement (tho the statement >>>> has been watered down now). >>>> >>>> If afrinic is in a financial fix or in a state where it is tending >>>> towards a financial situation where it can no longer perform its duties, it >>>> is only right to start weighing all viable options to keep the registry >>>> afloat. >>>> Paul made a suggestion - tho a bit aggressively - about the NRO coming >>>> to save the region. >>>> I will like the community to see this as ?option 1?. >>>> >>>> Does any other community member have any better suggestion in the (not >>>> so likely) situation that afrinic does not have the financial capability to >>>> carry out its duties? >>>> >>>> If so, please lay them out for discussion amongst the community >>>> members. >>>> >>>> If not, Option 1 remains the only alternative to cushion the effect of >>>> the financial breakdown. >>>> >>>> That being said. I think we should think in the direction of way >>>> forward and have a plan ready rather than crucifying Paul for being >>>> proactive. >>>> >>>> On Aug 1, 2021, at 11:01, Paul Wollner >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> ? >>>> >>>> Hello community >>>> >>>> I think I misused the word ?take over? to spike some unfortunate >>>> sentiments. >>>> >>>> Let me try this again: >>>> In the interest of internet continuity, another RIR should help AFRINIC >>>> (by staff or infrastructure), to perform it?s core registration service >>>> function for the time being, until all AFRINIC litigation has been sorted >>>> to avoid disruption to our African end users and businesses. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> Paul >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ---- On Thu, 29 Jul 2021 23:38:32 +0200 *Paul Wollner >>>> >* >>>> wrote ---- >>>> >>>> Apologies for the duplicate post, but the initial posting was too >>>> large. >>>> >>>> The concerns expressed by TISPA, as well as other concerned parties and >>>> especially by AFRINIC's own admission in the news outlet lexpress.mu, >>>> which is available at https://ibb.co/tmWCk0k, regarding the AFRINIC?s >>>> inability to keep providing its core registry functions due to its >>>> inability to meet its financial requirements. >>>> >>>> I suggest that in order not hold end users, ISPs and any other >>>> business's hostage, for the interest of continue service of AFRINIC?s core >>>> registry service, we should urgently call for NRO fulfil their >>>> responsibility as well as commitment to the global internet to take over >>>> AFRINIC?s registration service for the time being, until litigation is >>>> settled some time later. ( >>>> https://www.nro.net/accountability/rir-accountability/joint-rir-stability-fund/ >>>> ) >>>> >>>> That way, no end user or business will ever impacted however results >>>> come out of litigation. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> Paul Wollner >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Community-Discuss mailing list >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Community-Discuss mailing list >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From geier at geier.ne.tz Sun Aug 1 16:25:55 2021 From: geier at geier.ne.tz (Frank Habicht) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 19:25:55 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> Message-ID: <4f6e6162-876b-a0f9-965b-6e6fc0b3e605@geier.ne.tz> Hi, first the part from the end that prompted me to respond... > .... In fact I find the amount of legal posturing on this > list to be nothing short of bizarre - let the courts do their work - ^^^^ - how dare you use the singular???? I expected 2 lists, but then saw many more (which I'm not subscribed to). And I've seen where this was introduced - Thanks Paul! On 01/08/2021 15:38, Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss wrote: > It is my (personal) view that AfriNIC board should exercise their powers > and pass a transfer policy. One version to achieve that result already exists, though in 2 steps: - get new IPs elsewhere - [1] - return your current resources to AfriNIC It's possible, I've done that. > It is entirely within the boards powers to pass emergency policy which > the community can revoke at the next pdp should they wish to do so - and > if AfriNIC has the support claimed by members of this list there is > absolutely zero risk in this approach. After all the good things certain members have done, the board really should consider returning a favour or two. > Furthermore - such an approach would also remove the possibility of > other legal action which may be taken against them on grounds removed > from the current legal situation If memory serves me right, while you were on the board you were talking about "fiduciary duty" and that's when i first heard the expression. > I remind everyone that AfriNIC has a duty to act in the interests of its > members - and AfriNIC has repeatedly stated in the press - and has been > echoed by various ISP associations that there is risk here - .. in my humble opinion the risk is brought by the initiator of the legal proceedings. And yes, I also have this minor disagreement with Owen that leasing space was permitted - or not. And I agree we let someone else conclude this. Frank [1] seems my google-foo is with me today: https://www.ripe.net/manage-ips-and-asns/resource-transfers-and-mergers/brokers https://www.arin.net/resources/registry/transfers/stls/registered_facilitators/ https://www.apnic.net/manage-ip/manage-resources/transfer-resources/transfer-of-unused-ip-and-as-numbers/transfer-facilitators/ From noah at neo.co.tz Sun Aug 1 16:53:46 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 19:53:46 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] The Contract In-Reply-To: References: <17af40726bd.c1a468ac340728.5536230081885576908@africaoncloud.net> <52534.1627606362@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: Hi Sylvain, On Sun, Aug 1, 2021 at 4:19 AM Sylvain Baya wrote: > Dear AfriNIC's Community, > > Le vendredi 30 juillet 2021, Ronald F. Guilmette > a ?crit : > >> In message < >> 17af40726bd.c1a468ac340728.5536230081885576908 at africaoncloud.net>, >> Paul Wollner wrote: >> >> >I for one call that at this stage, AFRINIC should be seriously looking >> into >> >ways transition it's service to other RIRs to mitigate the risk that >> >they have mentioned today to the press. >> >> Press? What press? >> >> Well, anyway, we can come back to that later. >> >> > Hi Ronald, > Thanks for your email, brother! > > > >> For now, I just wanted to suggest that before we call the undertaker and >> florist and start ordering the funeral arrangements, maybe Paul could >> answer a simple question for me... >> >> Spcifically, I am hoping that Paul may be able to tell us all how Cloud >> Innovantion's actions... at least the ones that are not disputed in any >> way... comport with the plain language of Section 4(c)(i) of the AFRINIC >> Registration Services Agreement (RSA): >> >> https://afrinic.net/ast/pdf/services/afrinic-rsa-en-201801.pdf >> >> > ~?~ > [...] > 4. Conditions of service > (a) Where a member, receiving service under an existing agreement applies > for a change or a variation of the > type of such service which AFRINIC has been supplying to it, evaluation of > such a ?change request? will be effected in > terms of the provisions of clause (2) of the present agreement. > (b) *Cooperation*: > *(i) An applicant receiving service under an agreement is at all times > bound to provide to AFRINIC such * > *information, assistance and cooperation as may be reasonably required by > the latter in the provision * > *of the service.* > *(ii) Such request for information may also be made where AFRINIC is > investigating (reviewing) the * > *applicant?s utilisation of the number resources already assigned to it.* > (iii) Failure by the applicant, to comply with a request made at above may: > *(1) entail revocation or withholding of the service supplied by AFRINIC;* > The above section 4 of the AFRINIC RSA is very important and provides the context in sub-section b (i) and (ii) > ...Ronald, please, see here [1] for *the purpose* :'-( > __ > [1]: < > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-July/004137.html > > > > Others should as well.... > > >> Paul, if you would be so kind, that would be most enlightening. >> >> > ...maybe not him? any other might want to take this > opportunity to try to continue to mis-inform us > that the RSA and the Bylaws are not useful documents > for Ressource Members; and that only the CPM is :'-( > Ofcourse Paul would have you believe the Bylaws are not useful yet in the Bylaws section 6 here; https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws#b20-6 states clearly that; 6) *MEMBERSHIP* *6.1) Subject to the other provisions of this Article, membership shall be open to:* (i) any Person who is *geographically* *based within,* and *providing services in the African region*, and who is engaged in the use of, or *business of providing, open system protocol network services; or * The AFRINIC RSA agreement comes into play because of the above provision so as to cement the relationship between AFRINIC and the Member. Cheers, Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From geier at geier.ne.tz Sun Aug 1 17:09:23 2021 From: geier at geier.ne.tz (Frank Habicht) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 20:09:23 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?=5Bripe-list=5D_Call_for_AFRINIC?= =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=99s_registry_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: <17af41cb044.e637eb65343733.3107949989203015779@africaoncloud.net> <17af4346477.12b89fc82346837.8550228416205902171@africaoncloud.net> <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> Message-ID: <1c773bbf-d177-7420-4491-170329267072@geier.ne.tz> On 01/08/2021 14:58, Lamiaa Chnayti wrote: > ... There?s too much to risk > if we don?t get any help from another RIR as soon as possible.. I have a question about the "we". How would any non-functioning of any AfriNIC service affect you or any employer of yours? [other than the ability to post to this very mailing list] Thanks, Frank From owen at delong.com Sun Aug 1 17:36:55 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 10:36:55 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <19166B87-4F3A-446C-8863-B2D39C28F1EE@delong.com> Unfortunately, the problem here is the definition of ?powers that be?? There are very few powers that be for dealing with a situation where an RIR?s board and/or management run amok and contrary to the rules which govern them. The NRO cannot make any significant action without the unanimous consent of all 5 RIR CEOs, so the NRO has no capacity to act to correct an aberrant RIR. The only actions available to correct aberrant behavior by an RIRs board are the ballot box (replace the board over the course of 3 years, or bring an appropriate resolution at a general members meeting (annual or special)) or the legal system (courts). Unfortunately, AFRINIC?s bylaws are structured such that an aberrant board is allowed to block virtually any motion it doesn?t like from being placed on the agenda of a general members meeting. Relevant text from the bylaws: 7.2) <>Subject to Articles 7.4 and 7.5 below, Members shall be entitled: by majority vote on the day of each Annual General Members? Meeting, to elect the Directors of the Company in accordance with Article 13.5 below; and at each Annual General Members? Meeting, to discuss and comment on the general policies of the Company on such issues and for such a time as shall be reasonably allowed by the chairperson of the Annual General Members? Meeting. [Amended at the 2020 AGMM] 7.3) For the avoidance of doubt, Article 7.2 shall be without prejudice to any contractual rights of Resource Members in any agreement with the Company. (7.2.2 allows the chairperson to essentially control what makes it on to the agenda) The board has abused this power in the past to prevent resolutions seeking to remove board members from office from being acted upon at AGMMs, so there is no reason to believe that such a motion would receive due process now. That leaves the courts as the only currently viable alternative in terms of ?powers that be? that can hold an RIR accountable or responsible for its misdeeds. While people often mistake ICANN for some form of authority, the reality is that for number resources, ICANN is a puppet at the end of the strings pulled by the NRO (which acts in the role of ICANN ASO). The IANA functions contract for number resources (IPv4/IPv6 addresses and ASNs) is awarded by an "empowered community" that, for all practical purposes boils down to the NRO. (it?s different for each sub-area, such as IETF secretariat role and domain name role now, but this is how it works for number resources). ICANN/PTI is the current contractor supplying the IANA functions for number resources (I still can?t entirely decipher where PTI begins or where ICANN ends or how that whole entanglement is managed, but for all practical purposes, they seem to act as one and the same). Their policies for administering that contract come through the defined global policy process of the ASO AC, which amounts to passing an identical (or nearly so) policy in all 5 RIRs through each of their PDPs and then forwarding those to the ASO AC for consideration as a global policy, which then needs to be ratified by the ICANN board. ICANN has no ability to change policies outside of that process and has no authority over RIRs whatsoever other than its ability to accredit new RIRs under ICP-2 which is at least difficult, if not impossible without the unanimous consent of the NRO EC. I will also note, for the sake of completeness, that the NRO so far has not announced any approval, disbursement, or activation of the NRO stability fund. The only reference to said fund in the context of these events by the RIRs has been Eddy?s mention of it as a resource to handle this crisis and clarification by various RIRs that the stability fund is not a blank check obligation and cannot be used outside of unanimous consent of the NRO-EC (5 RIR CEOs). Owen > On Jul 31, 2021, at 19:49 , Brian Sowers wrote: > > The effect from the NRO activating their stability fund for AFRINIC?s behalf will be twofold. First, it will certainly alleviate?in a disclosed and stable manner?AFRINIC?s financial shortcomings to allow for it to continue operations. Second, the call for help from NRO certainly draws more attention to AFRINIC?s current shady financial situation. A look at AFRINIC?s books will quite possibly unveil what the ?alternate means of funding? were. At that point, it is up to the discretion of the powers that be what happens then. Like many in this thread, my wish is that AFRINIC?s shady dealings by its leadership get exposed for the community?s betterment. > > -Brian > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Sun Aug 1 17:47:10 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 10:47:10 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> Message-ID: > On Aug 1, 2021, at 06:06 , Noah wrote: > > > On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 15:43 Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss, > wrote: > > Let those who wish to run the risks of staying with AfriNIC through this situation do so > - let those who choose not to accept the risk profile transfer out - problem solved. > > https://afrinic.net/policy/archive/inbound-transfer-policy > > Noah > PS: confusion of the highest order. Who is confused, Noah? You? That proposal (from 5 years ago) was submitted to compare/contrast and provide the community with alternatives along side a proposal that supported bidirectional transfers. Both policies failed back then and it was interesting because both failed due to the continuing conflict between a faction that felt that there was no validity to a unidirectional policy (many other RIRs would not engage in transfers to a region with a unidirectional policy) and a faction that continues to argue for regional protectionism in a global economy and a global internet. The faction that insisted on protectionism was able to kill the bidirectional policy and the faction that rejected protectionism in the interests of being able to trade globally and participate as equal citizens in the world market was able to kill the unidirectional policy. So now, 5 years later, here we are again and it seems we have consensus on a bidirectional policy that the board has yet to ratify, and, we have Andrew calling for the board to pass an emergency outbound policy to mitigate risks to members. Personally, I think the simpler and more expedient thing would be for the board to merely ratify the existing consensus RTP, but Andrew?s suggestion could also mitigate risks for members. The question now is whether the board will live up to its duties or once again create a fact pattern likely to be viewed unfavorably by the courts. Owen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Sun Aug 1 17:54:38 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 10:54:38 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: <15BB5F7B-2B73-4CEB-BAC5-0C929D66DB84@icloud.com> Message-ID: <6462FAC5-01D2-4121-80D7-1765A65DCE4B@delong.com> > On Aug 1, 2021, at 08:27 , Frank Habicht wrote: > > Hi, > > On 01/08/2021 17:54, Thizwilondi Malupa wrote: >> Hi Robert , >> >> I think Andrew made a very good point, despite your argument that he is >> pushing for the transfer policy for some other reasons. Passing a >> transfer policy would by all means reduce the risk of having AFRINIC >> badly affected entirely , including this community . > > I think Cloud Innovation dropping all lawsuits would have the same > effect, and that is the way I would like to suggest. OK, for the sake of argument, what would you have AFRINIC do to ensure the protection of Cloud Innovations rights in that process? Unless and until there is some willingness on the other side to address the issues that created the need for the lawsuits, why would Cloud Innovation surrender its rights and the damage it has suffered at the hands of AFRINIC?s misdeeds? Owen From owen at delong.com Sun Aug 1 18:02:48 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 11:02:48 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments In-Reply-To: References: <5836452.zqfpRbV99g@coffee-bar> <2BCE246D-270A-4C5A-BB1E-40441776EE69@delong.com> Message-ID: <82C92C60-8133-4B02-8A9E-4223C3249F6C@delong.com> > On Jul 31, 2021, at 23:10 , Noah wrote: > > > On Sat, 31 Jul 2021, 21:52 Owen DeLong, > wrote: > > Had AFRINIC stuck to its governing documents as written, rather than choosing > to invent restrictions which are not codified therein > > I refer you to the Resource Services Agreement Section 4(c)(i) whose wordings are totally clear and unambiguous. Yes, and there?s also 4(c)(iv)(3) which provides for the possibility to update that information, which Cloud Innovation did. > I see an RIR that does not operate according to its governing documents > > I refer you to the Resource Services Agreement Section 4(c)(i) whose wordings are totally clear and unambiguous. Yes, so do I? 4.c: (iv) Hereby binds itself to: (1) notify AFRINIC whenever its circumstances so change that it is no longer in need of the Internet number resources supplied or being supplied to it under a Registration Service Agreement; (2) surrender to AFRINIC within 15 days of the service of the notice at (iv)(1) above the Internet number resources supplied or being supplied to it under a Registration Service Agreement; (3) update any data submitted to AFRINIC in the context of: an application for a Registration Service Agreement or the renewal of any Registration Service Agreement whenever such data have been the subject of amendment, change or have become outdated. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ibeanusielvis at gmail.com Sun Aug 1 18:09:36 2021 From: ibeanusielvis at gmail.com (Ibeanusi Elvis) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 03:09:36 +0900 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> Message-ID: Hello community, The idea of implementing the resource transfer policy not only gives the resource members the right to choose but it protects them from the risk of being entangled in the situations that the AFRINIC has found themselves in. This transfer policy has reached a consensus and implementing it by the board would be an efficient route to take. The internet is globally and having this resource transfer policy makes definite sense. On the other hand, I see no reason to initiate the emergency policy. Best, Elvis. On Mon, Aug 2, 2021 at 2:49 Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss < community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > > > On Aug 1, 2021, at 06:06 , Noah wrote: > > > On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 15:43 Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss, < > community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > >> >> Let those who wish to run the risks of staying with AfriNIC through this >> situation do so >> > - let those who choose not to accept the risk profile transfer out - >> problem solved. >> > > https://afrinic.net/policy/archive/inbound-transfer-policy > > Noah > PS: confusion of the highest order. > > > Who is confused, Noah? You? > > That proposal (from 5 years ago) was submitted to compare/contrast and > provide the community with > alternatives along side a proposal that supported bidirectional transfers. > Both policies failed back then > and it was interesting because both failed due to the continuing conflict > between a faction that felt > that there was no validity to a unidirectional policy (many other RIRs > would not engage in transfers > to a region with a unidirectional policy) and a faction that continues to > argue for regional > protectionism in a global economy and a global internet. > > The faction that insisted on protectionism was able to kill the > bidirectional policy and the faction > that rejected protectionism in the interests of being able to trade > globally and participate as equal > citizens in the world market was able to kill the unidirectional policy. > > So now, 5 years later, here we are again and it seems we have consensus on > a bidirectional > policy that the board has yet to ratify, and, we have Andrew calling for > the board to pass an > emergency outbound policy to mitigate risks to members. > > Personally, I think the simpler and more expedient thing would be for the > board to merely ratify > the existing consensus RTP, but Andrew?s suggestion could also mitigate > risks for members. > > The question now is whether the board will live up to its duties or once > again create a fact > pattern likely to be viewed unfavorably by the courts. > > Owen > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From geier at geier.ne.tz Sun Aug 1 18:16:12 2021 From: geier at geier.ne.tz (Frank Habicht) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 21:16:12 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: <6462FAC5-01D2-4121-80D7-1765A65DCE4B@delong.com> References: <15BB5F7B-2B73-4CEB-BAC5-0C929D66DB84@icloud.com> <6462FAC5-01D2-4121-80D7-1765A65DCE4B@delong.com> Message-ID: <5e0ec628-228a-1290-d67b-3a8fd63db568@geier.ne.tz> On 01/08/2021 20:54, Owen DeLong wrote: >> On Aug 1, 2021, at 08:27 , Frank Habicht wrote: >> I think Cloud Innovation dropping all lawsuits would have the same >> effect, and that is the way I would like to suggest. > > OK, for the sake of argument, what would you have AFRINIC do to ensure the protection of Cloud Innovations rights in that process? > > Unless and until there is some willingness on the other side to address the issues that created the need for the lawsuits, why would > Cloud Innovation surrender its rights and the damage it has suffered at the hands of AFRINIC?s misdeeds? I'm still not convinced that CI had the right to lease out the space. That's where we differ. And I believe that we agree in the fact that it's not (any more) for us or this mailing list to determine this. Frank From noah at neo.co.tz Sun Aug 1 18:48:54 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 21:48:54 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> Message-ID: Attention: Lamiaa , Malupa, Joshua, Yas, Elvis, ... I take note of your echos and allow me to remind you all that... On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 21:09 Ibeanusi Elvis, wrote: > > This transfer policy has reached a consensus and > The PDWG disputed the declaration of the said consensus by submitting to the Appeal Committee two separate appeals against the self-serving resource transfer policy. implementing it by the board would be an efficient route to take. > The board has a fiduciary duty to protect AFRINIC from dangerous self-serving policies which are sponsored by brokers like Larus Limited. Cheers, Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From oussouly at gmail.com Sun Aug 1 19:11:39 2021 From: oussouly at gmail.com (Ousmane Ly) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 19:11:39 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments In-Reply-To: References: <5836452.zqfpRbV99g@coffee-bar> <2BCE246D-270A-4C5A-BB1E-40441776EE69@delong.com> Message-ID: Merci Arnaud! Le dim. 1 ao?t 2021 ? 15:48, Arnaud AMELINA a ?crit : > Erreur d'interpr?tation de la notion de souverainet? num?rique. Cette > souverainet? s'applique au contenu pas au support. Les ressources critiques > que g?re Afrinic sont destin?s ? un usage Africain, pour la r?gion > africaine. Mais les contenus peuvent ?tre visibles de partout > (accessibilit? mondiale). Pas de confusion, merci. > > -- > Arnaud > > Le dim. 1 ao?t 2021 ? 14:54, Lamiaa Chnayti a > ?crit : > >> Permettez-moi de rectifier qu'il ne s'agit pas de souverainet? num?rique >> africaine, mais plut?t de connectivit? mondiale. Internet est global. ?tant >> moi-m?me africaine, s'il existe une telle chose appel?e souverainet? >> num?rique africaine, je suppose qu'il existe des choses comme la >> souverainet? num?rique europ?enne, la souverainet? latino-am?ricaine etc.. >> Et comme ?a nous commencerons ? nous fixer tous des limites, ce qui veut >> dire que nous ne devrions probablement pas acc?der ? des sites Web qui sont >> sous la souverainet? d?autres r?gions. >> >> Cordialement, >> Lamiaa >> >> >> On Sun, 1 Aug 2021 at 07:29, Ousmane Ly wrote: >> >>> Dear Noah. >>> Congratulations for your action on african digital sovregnity! I am very >>> Proud of your actions. You have our support. >>> Best >>> ================================================= >>> Dr Ousmane Ly >>> Consultant en Sant? Publique, Globale/Mondiale, Digitale/Num?rique et >>> Connect?e >>> Tel Mobile : +223 76 13 44 70 accessible en roaming >>> ================================================= >>> Ce message ?lectronique ainsi que toutes les pi?ces jointes est destin? >>> ? ?tre re?u uniquement par les personnes autoris?es ? recevoir les >>> informations confidentielles qu'il peut contenir. Toute diffusion, >>> publication, totale ou partielle ou divulgation sous quelque forme que ce >>> soit non express?ment autoris?es de ce message, sont interdites. Veuillez >>> ne pas lire, copier, transf?rer ou stocker ce message si vous n??tes pas un >>> destinataire attendu de celui-ci. Si vous avez re?u ce message par erreur, >>> veuillez le transf?rer ? l?exp?diteur et le supprimer compl?tement de votre >>> syst?me informatique. >>> >>> >>> Le dim. 1 ao?t 2021 ? 02:12, Noah a ?crit : >>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, 31 Jul 2021, 21:52 Owen DeLong, wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Had AFRINIC stuck to its governing documents as written, rather than >>>>> choosing >>>>> to invent restrictions which are not codified therein >>>> >>>> >>>> I refer you to the Resource Services Agreement Section 4(c)(i) whose >>>> wordings are totally clear and unambiguous. >>>> >>>> >>>> While I am not a fan of some of the things Cloud Innovation has >>>>> done, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Ooh Owen.... you know what... just enjoy your paycheck from Cloud >>>> Innovation. >>>> >>>> The things they have done are known and we don't need you to remind the >>>> community. >>>> >>>> >>>> I see an RIR that does not operate according to its governing documents >>>>> >>>> >>>> I refer you to the Resource Services Agreement Section 4(c)(i) whose >>>> wordings are totally clear and unambiguous. >>>> >>>> Noah >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Members-Discuss mailing list >>>> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Community-Discuss mailing list >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > -- Dr Ousmane Ly Consultant en Sant? Publique, Sant? Mondiale (Globale) et Sant? Num?rique. Tel Mali: +22376134470 Tel International : +1 (514) 701-5352 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From oussouly at gmail.com Sun Aug 1 19:13:27 2021 From: oussouly at gmail.com (Ousmane Ly) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 19:13:27 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments In-Reply-To: References: <5836452.zqfpRbV99g@coffee-bar> <2BCE246D-270A-4C5A-BB1E-40441776EE69@delong.com> Message-ID: La chine fait son Internet priv? et vous n?aurez jamais acc?s ? certains de leurs ressources ! Le big players comme Facebook ou Google se sont pli?s ? leurs r?gles ou ?taient votre notion d?internet mondial? Bien cordialement Le dim. 1 ao?t 2021 ? 14:06, Lamiaa Chnayti a ?crit : > Permettez-moi de rectifier qu'il ne s'agit pas de souverainet? num?rique > africaine, mais plut?t de connectivit? mondiale. Internet est global. ?tant > moi-m?me africaine, s'il existe une telle chose appel?e souverainet? > num?rique africaine, je suppose qu'il existe des choses comme la > souverainet? num?rique europ?enne, la souverainet? latino-am?ricaine etc.. > Et comme ?a nous commencerons ? nous fixer tous des limites, ce qui veut > dire que nous ne devrions probablement pas acc?der ? des sites Web qui sont > sous la souverainet? d?autres r?gions. > > Cordialement, > Lamiaa > > > On Sun, 1 Aug 2021 at 07:29, Ousmane Ly wrote: > >> Dear Noah. >> Congratulations for your action on african digital sovregnity! I am very >> Proud of your actions. You have our support. >> Best >> ================================================= >> Dr Ousmane Ly >> Consultant en Sant? Publique, Globale/Mondiale, Digitale/Num?rique et >> Connect?e >> Tel Mobile : +223 76 13 44 70 accessible en roaming >> ================================================= >> Ce message ?lectronique ainsi que toutes les pi?ces jointes est destin? ? >> ?tre re?u uniquement par les personnes autoris?es ? recevoir les >> informations confidentielles qu'il peut contenir. Toute diffusion, >> publication, totale ou partielle ou divulgation sous quelque forme que ce >> soit non express?ment autoris?es de ce message, sont interdites. Veuillez >> ne pas lire, copier, transf?rer ou stocker ce message si vous n??tes pas un >> destinataire attendu de celui-ci. Si vous avez re?u ce message par erreur, >> veuillez le transf?rer ? l?exp?diteur et le supprimer compl?tement de votre >> syst?me informatique. >> >> >> Le dim. 1 ao?t 2021 ? 02:12, Noah a ?crit : >> >>> >>> On Sat, 31 Jul 2021, 21:52 Owen DeLong, wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Had AFRINIC stuck to its governing documents as written, rather than >>>> choosing >>>> to invent restrictions which are not codified therein >>> >>> >>> I refer you to the Resource Services Agreement Section 4(c)(i) whose >>> wordings are totally clear and unambiguous. >>> >>> >>> While I am not a fan of some of the things Cloud Innovation has >>>> done, >>> >>> >>> >>> Ooh Owen.... you know what... just enjoy your paycheck from Cloud >>> Innovation. >>> >>> The things they have done are known and we don't need you to remind the >>> community. >>> >>> >>> I see an RIR that does not operate according to its governing documents >>>> >>> >>> I refer you to the Resource Services Agreement Section 4(c)(i) whose >>> wordings are totally clear and unambiguous. >>> >>> Noah >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Members-Discuss mailing list >>> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss >>> >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > -- Dr Ousmane Ly Consultant en Sant? Publique, Sant? Mondiale (Globale) et Sant? Num?rique. Tel Mali: +22376134470 Tel International : +1 (514) 701-5352 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Sun Aug 1 19:21:36 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 22:21:36 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 20:47 Owen DeLong, wrote: > > > On Aug 1, 2021, at 06:06 , Noah wrote: > > > On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 15:43 Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss, < > community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > >> >> Let those who wish to run the risks of staying with AfriNIC through this >> situation do so >> > - let those who choose not to accept the risk profile transfer out - >> problem solved. >> > > https://afrinic.net/policy/archive/inbound-transfer-policy > > Noah > PS: confusion of the highest order. > > > Who is confused, Noah? > Andrew who penned down that failed Inbound Transfer Policy Proposal in 2016 and today was suggesting an Outbound transfer policy to move IPv4 space out of AFRINIC service region. There is some confusion there. You? > Nop.... > Personally, I think the simpler and more expedient thing would be for the > board to merely ratify > the existing consensus RTP, > Says Owen who recently on *Thu Jul 29 01:22:17 UTC 2021* cautioned the same AFRINIC board from ratifying a proposal under some appeal. I refer you to the archives *https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/013651.html * *Jordi* >* I?ve submitted several appeals, so I know very well that only patience is needed.* *Owen*: I would think you, of all people, would understand the need for the board to at least acknowledge the appeal and provide some assurance that it will not ratify a policy that should be under appeal. *Jordi* >* The Board will not be able to ratify a policy under appeal until the appeal is resolved. That?s it.* *Owen*: Normally, I would agree with you. However, in the face of recent events, I am unwilling to place so much faith in this current board. Is it safe to say that you Owen is equally confused. but Andrew?s suggestion could also mitigate risks for members. > It remains Andrew's personal opinion and not the consensus of 75% of the membership base. Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Sun Aug 1 19:45:40 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 12:45:40 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> Message-ID: <1F997BA1-4113-4867-8E7A-263900740AFD@delong.com> > On Aug 1, 2021, at 12:21 , Noah wrote: > > > > On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 20:47 Owen DeLong, > wrote: > > >> On Aug 1, 2021, at 06:06 , Noah > wrote: >> >> >> On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 15:43 Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss, > wrote: >> >> Let those who wish to run the risks of staying with AfriNIC through this situation do so >> - let those who choose not to accept the risk profile transfer out - problem solved. >> >> https://afrinic.net/policy/archive/inbound-transfer-policy >> >> Noah >> PS: confusion of the highest order. > > Who is confused, Noah? > > Andrew who penned down that failed Inbound Transfer Policy Proposal in 2016 and today was suggesting an Outbound transfer policy to move IPv4 space out of AFRINIC service region. There is some confusion there. I don?t think he?s confused, I think you fail to recognize a: the context in which he penned that 2016 proposal and b: the ways in which circumstances have changed today. > Personally, I think the simpler and more expedient thing would be for the board to merely ratify > the existing consensus RTP, > > Says Owen who recently on Thu Jul 29 01:22:17 UTC 2021 cautioned the same AFRINIC board from ratifying a proposal under some appeal. Yes? Difference is that there?s arguably no valid appeal standing against RTP. Co-chairs declared consensus. Appeal submitted Co-chairs returned proposal to list for further community input. Consensus was confirmed by the community and again confirmed by co-chairs. Thus this consensus declaration was not the subject of the previous appeal. Proposal submitted to board fro ratification after second consensus call. > > I refer you to the archives https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/013651.html > > Jordi > I?ve submitted several appeals, so I know very well that only patience is needed. > Owen: I would think you, of all people, would understand the need for the board to at least acknowledge the appeal and provide some assurance that it will not ratify a policy that should be under appeal. > > Jordi > The Board will not be able to ratify a policy under appeal until the appeal is resolved. That?s it. > Owen: Normally, I would agree with you. However, in the face of recent events, I am unwilling to place so much faith in > this current board. > > Is it safe to say that you Owen is equally confused. Nope? But apparently I was right about you being confused. You seem to fail to grasp the difference in circumstance for the two policies you mention above. > but Andrew?s suggestion could also mitigate risks for members. > > It remains Andrew's personal opinion and not the consensus of 75% of the membership base. How did you measure this 75%?s opinions? Please do tell. Further, what do members have to do with policy? Policy is under the control of the community. Members get control of the board and the bylaws. Owen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lamiaachnayti at gmail.com Sun Aug 1 19:49:57 2021 From: lamiaachnayti at gmail.com (Lamiaa Chnayti) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 20:49:57 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> Message-ID: Attention Noah: I take note of your constant obsession with Larus, but seriously man, are you in some way related to them or a stakeholder in something against them? Just wondering since this obsession of yours seems very personal.. Also, allow me to remind you that the board you are referring to is the same board that interfered in the appeals by pressuring its committee members to resign, which was probably due to the outcome of the appeals that didn?t align with what they wanted. This is why a year later, there are still appeals that appear to be stuck in time "comme par hasard". Back to Paul?s suggestion, I strongly believe the African Internet can do much much better than find itself in jeopardy because of the (easily avoidable) problems caused by AFRINIC Le dim. 1 ao?t 2021 ? 19:49, Noah a ?crit : > Attention: Lamiaa , Malupa, Joshua, Yas, Elvis, ... I take note of your > echos and allow me to remind you all that... > On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 21:09 Ibeanusi Elvis, wrote: > >> >> This transfer policy has reached a consensus and >> > > The PDWG disputed the declaration of the said consensus by submitting to > the Appeal Committee two separate appeals against the self-serving resource > transfer policy. > > > implementing it by the board would be an efficient route to take. >> > > The board has a fiduciary duty to protect AFRINIC from dangerous > self-serving policies which are sponsored by brokers like Larus Limited. > > Cheers, > Noah > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -- Lamiaa CHNAYTI -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From abscoco at gmail.com Sun Aug 1 19:52:15 2021 From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain Baya) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 20:52:15 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] The Contract In-Reply-To: References: <17af40726bd.c1a468ac340728.5536230081885576908@africaoncloud.net> <52534.1627606362@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: Dear AfriNIC's Community, Please see my comments below, inline... Le dim. 1 ao?t 2021 ? 5:53 PM, Noah a ?crit : > Hi Sylvain, > Hi Noah, Thanks for your email, brother. > On Sun, Aug 1, 2021 at 4:19 AM Sylvain Baya wrote: > >> Dear AfriNIC's Community, >> >> Le vendredi 30 juillet 2021, Ronald F. Guilmette >> a ?crit : >> >>> In message < >>> 17af40726bd.c1a468ac340728.5536230081885576908 at africaoncloud.net>, >>> Paul Wollner wrote: >>> >>> >I for one call that at this stage, AFRINIC should be seriously looking >>> into >>> >ways transition it's service to other RIRs to mitigate the risk that >>> >they have mentioned today to the press. >>> >>> Press? What press? >>> >>> Well, anyway, we can come back to that later. >>> >>> >> Hi Ronald, >> Thanks for your email, brother! >> >> >> >>> For now, I just wanted to suggest that before we call the undertaker and >>> florist and start ordering the funeral arrangements, maybe Paul could >>> answer a simple question for me... >>> >>> Spcifically, I am hoping that Paul may be able to tell us all how Cloud >>> Innovantion's actions... at least the ones that are not disputed in any >>> way... comport with the plain language of Section 4(c)(i) of the AFRINIC >>> Registration Services Agreement (RSA): >>> >>> https://afrinic.net/ast/pdf/services/afrinic-rsa-en-201801.pdf >>> >>> >> ~?~ >> [...] >> 4. Conditions of service >> (a) Where a member, receiving service under an existing agreement applies >> for a change or a variation of the >> type of such service which AFRINIC has been supplying to it, evaluation >> of such a ?change request? will be effected in >> terms of the provisions of clause (2) of the present agreement. >> (b) *Cooperation*: >> *(i) An applicant receiving service under an agreement is at all times >> bound to provide to AFRINIC such * >> *information, assistance and cooperation as may be reasonably required by >> the latter in the provision * >> *of the service.* >> *(ii) Such request for information may also be made where AFRINIC is >> investigating (reviewing) the * >> *applicant?s utilisation of the number resources already assigned to it.* >> (iii) Failure by the applicant, to comply with a request made at above >> may: >> *(1) entail revocation or withholding of the service supplied by AFRINIC;* >> > > The above section 4 of the AFRINIC RSA is very important and provides the > context in sub-section b (i) and (ii) > Exact! Thanks to enlightening it more. ...it's important that more community members know the trueth. > >> ...Ronald, please, see here [1] for *the purpose* :'-( >> __ >> [1]: < >> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-July/004137.html >> > >> >> > Others should as well.... > > ...they are free to disagree though :-) It only shows that they are organised to disrupt the RIR system ... >> >>> Paul, if you would be so kind, that would be most enlightening. >>> >>> >> ...maybe not him? any other might want to take this >> opportunity to try to continue to mis-inform us >> that the RSA and the Bylaws are not useful documents >> for Ressource Members; and that only the CPM is :'-( >> > > Ofcourse Paul would have you believe > ...my belief is already safe, brother! No worry! the Bylaws are not useful yet in the Bylaws section 6 here; > https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws#b20-6 states clearly that; > > 6) *MEMBERSHIP* > *6.1) Subject to the other provisions of this Article, membership shall be > open to:* > > (i) any Person who is *geographically* *based within,* and *providing > services in the African region*, and who is engaged in the use of, or *business > of providing, open system protocol network services; or * > > The AFRINIC RSA agreement comes into play because of the above provision > so as to cement the relationship between AFRINIC and the Member. > Or course! thanks... ...one thing to add is that the very PDP identify the AfriNIC's Staff to be the Implementer of the CPM. They obviously use both the Bylaws, the RSA along side to the CPM. Shalom, --sb. > Cheers, > Noah > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Sun Aug 1 20:07:40 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 23:07:40 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 22:50 Lamiaa Chnayti, wrote: > Attention Noah: I take note of your constant obsession with Larus, but > seriously man, are you in some way related to them > Nop but you do based on public records. or a stakeholder in something against them? > Just wondering since this obsession of yours seems very personal. > In 2008 during the AFRINIC meeting in Rabat Morocco, the issue of IPv4 leasing and trading was under discussion. The consensus of the community was that, we don't support such an Idea and I stood in the floor of that PPM meeting and vehemently condemned the idea. LIR based on need, request for IPv4, sign an RSA and go about numbering infrastructure across Africa using the IPv4 integers for Africas digital transformation. This was in 2008. So my consitent position on the matter predates your Larus Ltd. Cheers Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com Sun Aug 1 20:30:29 2021 From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 20:30:29 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?windows-1252?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=92s_registr?= =?windows-1252?q?y_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> , Message-ID: > It remains Andrew's personal opinion and not the consensus of 75% of the membership base. Can I suggest as a compromise position we then test this theory by putting the question of transfers to a member vote passed or failed by simple majority? This worked for ripe with rpki when they took it to a members vote outside of the pdp? why not here? Andrew -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Sun Aug 1 20:38:33 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 23:38:33 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: <1F997BA1-4113-4867-8E7A-263900740AFD@delong.com> References: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> <1F997BA1-4113-4867-8E7A-263900740AFD@delong.com> Message-ID: https://afrinic.net/policy/appeal-committee?lang=en#appeals On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 22:46 Owen DeLong, wrote: > > > On Aug 1, 2021, at 12:21 , Noah wrote: > > > > On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 20:47 Owen DeLong, wrote: > >> >> >> On Aug 1, 2021, at 06:06 , Noah wrote: >> >> >> On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 15:43 Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss, < >> community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: >> >>> >>> Let those who wish to run the risks of staying with AfriNIC through this >>> situation do so >>> >> - let those who choose not to accept the risk profile transfer out - >>> problem solved. >>> >> >> https://afrinic.net/policy/archive/inbound-transfer-policy >> >> Noah >> PS: confusion of the highest order. >> >> >> Who is confused, Noah? >> > > Andrew who penned down that failed Inbound Transfer Policy Proposal in > 2016 and today was suggesting an Outbound transfer policy to move IPv4 > space out of AFRINIC service region. There is some confusion there. > > > I don?t think he?s confused, I think you fail to recognize a: the context > in which he penned that 2016 proposal and b: the ways in which > circumstances have changed today. > Circumstances require the AFRINIC service region to be more conservative. If anything, Andrew should bring back his proposal for Inbound Transfers. In your case, you want to force through a resource transfer policy so that your employer Larus can transfer resources out. *#dangayatoto * > Personally, I think the simpler and more expedient thing would be for the >> board to merely ratify >> the existing consensus RTP, >> > > Says Owen who recently on *Thu Jul 29 01:22:17 UTC 2021* cautioned the > same AFRINIC board from ratifying a proposal under some appeal. > > > Yes? Difference is that there?s arguably no valid appeal standing against > RTP. > > Co-chairs declared consensus. > In an erroneous manner. > Appeal submitted > The submitted appeals against that proposal remain open pending hearing by an AC review. https://afrinic.net/policy/appeal-committee?lang=en#appeals *1st pending appeal against DPP *AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT04 https://afrinic.net/ast/pdf/policy/appeal-consensus-ressource-transfer-policy-updated-20102020.pdf *2nd pending appeal against DPP *AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT04 https://afrinic.net/ast/pdf/policy/afrinic-appeal-resource-transfer-policy.pdf > Co-chairs returned proposal to list for further community input. > The PDP after the last call, requires disputed proposals to be sent back to the list for further discussions until the next PPM. There was no emergency and the proposal had so many valid objections that remain unaddressed today. Consensus was confirmed by the community and again confirmed by co-chairs. > Which community? or mean your echo-chamber. > Thus this consensus declaration was not the subject of the previous appeal. > I refer you to the above links that are pending appeals and can also see https://afrinic.net/policy/appeal-committee?lang=en#appeals > Proposal submitted to board fro ratification after second consensus call. > You can twist it however you like but as long as the PDWG has disputed the ex Co-chairs decision as per the PDP process and the very proposal remains with valid objections yet to be addressed, the resource transfer proposal never reached consensus and is under appeals. > > > > I refer you to the archives *https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/013651.html > * > > *Jordi* >* I?ve submitted several appeals, so I know very well that only > patience is needed.* > *Owen*: I would think you, of all people, would understand the need for > the board to at least acknowledge the appeal and provide some assurance > that it will not ratify a policy that should be under appeal. > > *Jordi* >* The Board will not be able to ratify a policy under appeal > until the appeal is resolved. That?s it.* > *Owen*: Normally, I would agree with you. However, in the face of recent > events, I am unwilling to place so much faith in > this current board. > > Is it safe to say that you Owen is equally confused. > > > Nope? But apparently I was right about you being confused. You seem to > fail to grasp the difference in circumstance for the two policies you > mention above. > You really like to twist things around to suit your liking. You are calling for the *ratification* of a resource transfer proposal which is under two pending appeals and at the same time you are calling for the *non-ratification* of an RPKI AS0 proposal which is under some appeal. > > but Andrew?s suggestion could also mitigate risks for members. >> > > It remains Andrew's personal opinion and not the consensus of 75% of the > membership base. > > > How did you measure this 75%?s opinions? Please do tell. > If you didn't get it,... it's immaterial. Cheers, Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From omo.oaiya at wacren.net Sun Aug 1 20:47:58 2021 From: omo.oaiya at wacren.net (Omo Oaiya) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 21:47:58 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> Message-ID: > On 1 Aug 2021, at 20:49, Lamiaa Chnayti wrote: > > Attention Noah: I take note of your constant obsession with Larus, but seriously man, are you in some way related to them or a stakeholder in something against them? Just wondering since this obsession of yours seems very personal.. > It is not just Noah. We all know Larus = Cloud Innovation = Owen Delong = Lu Heng and all the others scrambling for the scraps. Omo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Sun Aug 1 20:48:48 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 23:48:48 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> Message-ID: Hi Andrew, On Sun, Aug 1, 2021 at 11:30 PM Andrew Alston < Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com> wrote: > > > > It remains Andrew's personal opinion and not the consensus of 75% of the > membership base. > > Can I suggest as a compromise position we then test this theory by putting > the question of transfers to a member vote passed or failed by simple > majority? > Seeing that policy development is a matter of the PDWG community as CPM and Bylaws section 11.3), the majority membership dont have powers to do so and I was teasing Owen with that 75% and since the Bylaws amendment of 2020 in section 11.5) i and ii, not even the board has powers anymore to enforce any policy without the endorsement and consensus of the PDWG community. > > This worked for ripe with rpki when they took it to a members vote outside > of the pdp? why not here? > What worked in RIPE does not necessarily have to work here and we have shared the same sentiments with Jordi within the PDWG discussions. Cheers Noah > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jordi.palet at consulintel.es Sun Aug 1 21:03:38 2021 From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ) Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2021 23:03:38 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s__registr?= =?utf-8?q?y_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: <1F997BA1-4113-4867-8E7A-263900740AFD@delong.com> References: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> <1F997BA1-4113-4867-8E7A-263900740AFD@delong.com> Message-ID: <4E8B01E6-8EF7-462E-BAAA-513B41086D6D@consulintel.es> Hi Owen, I need to disagree with some of your points here. The transfer proposal was wrongly managed by the chairs, I?m convinced that they did in good faith. A proposal, can?t return once and again with non-editorial changes to the discussion and sustain the consensus decision. There is no discussion about that. An independent re-call committee decided that, despite the numerous warnings, the chairs continued interpreting the PDP in their own way. Further to that, not sure to understand way, the actual chairs haven?t resent the proposal report to the Board because, we like it or not, reached consensus (according to the previous chairs decision) to the board for ratification. I believe the chairs are interpreting, wrongly in my opinion, that they shall ?hold? a proposal under appeal, until the AC takes a decision. I?m convinced, as other members of the community, that it is in the hands of the Board to hold the ratification until the appeal is resolved, not the chairs. Could the chairs explain how they can interpret that they shall not send a proposal for ratification because it is under appeal or if they are still working on the report? (I understood they will finish it by end of June) Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 1/8/21 21:49, "Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss" escribi?: On Aug 1, 2021, at 12:21 , Noah wrote: On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 20:47 Owen DeLong, wrote: On Aug 1, 2021, at 06:06 , Noah wrote: On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 15:43 Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss, wrote: Let those who wish to run the risks of staying with AfriNIC through this situation do so - let those who choose not to accept the risk profile transfer out - problem solved. https://afrinic.net/policy/archive/inbound-transfer-policy Noah PS: confusion of the highest order. Who is confused, Noah? Andrew who penned down that failed Inbound Transfer Policy Proposal in 2016 and today was suggesting an Outbound transfer policy to move IPv4 space out of AFRINIC service region. There is some confusion there. I don?t think he?s confused, I think you fail to recognize a: the context in which he penned that 2016 proposal and b: the ways in which circumstances have changed today. Personally, I think the simpler and more expedient thing would be for the board to merely ratify the existing consensus RTP, Says Owen who recently on Thu Jul 29 01:22:17 UTC 2021 cautioned the same AFRINIC board from ratifying a proposal under some appeal. Yes? Difference is that there?s arguably no valid appeal standing against RTP. Co-chairs declared consensus. Appeal submitted Co-chairs returned proposal to list for further community input. Consensus was confirmed by the community and again confirmed by co-chairs. Thus this consensus declaration was not the subject of the previous appeal. Proposal submitted to board fro ratification after second consensus call. I refer you to the archives https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/013651.html Jordi > I?ve submitted several appeals, so I know very well that only patience is needed. Owen: I would think you, of all people, would understand the need for the board to at least acknowledge the appeal and provide some assurance that it will not ratify a policy that should be under appeal. Jordi > The Board will not be able to ratify a policy under appeal until the appeal is resolved. That?s it. Owen: Normally, I would agree with you. However, in the face of recent events, I am unwilling to place so much faith in this current board. Is it safe to say that you Owen is equally confused. Nope? But apparently I was right about you being confused. You seem to fail to grasp the difference in circumstance for the two policies you mention above. but Andrew?s suggestion could also mitigate risks for members. It remains Andrew's personal opinion and not the consensus of 75% of the membership base. How did you measure this 75%?s opinions? Please do tell. Further, what do members have to do with policy? Policy is under the control of the community. Members get control of the board and the bylaws. Owen _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com Sun Aug 1 21:06:45 2021 From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 21:06:45 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?windows-1252?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=92s_registr?= =?windows-1252?q?y_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> , Message-ID: This is incorrect and in line actually with what I said - 11.4) Notwithstanding the provisions of Article 11.3 above, the Board may adopt such policies regarding the management of internet number resources where it considers that the same is necessary and urgent, having regard to the proper and responsible usage of these resources. [Amended at the 2020 AGMM] 11.5) Endorsement of the policy adopted by the Board: 1. Any policy adopted by the Board under the provisions of Article11.4 shall be submitted to the community for endorsement at the next public policy meeting. 2. In the event that such a policy submitted by the Board is not endorsed, the said policy shall not be enforced or implemented following its non-endorsement; however, any action taken in terms of the policy prior to such non-endorsement shall remain valid. The board can pass a policy - valid till the next policy meeting - and if the community doesn?t like it they can reverse it - in the mean time those who feel the threat is to great can move in the intervening period. The board can - and does - have the power to implement policy valid till the next of wg Andrew Get Outlook for iOS ________________________________ From: Noah Sent: Sunday, August 1, 2021 11:48:48 PM To: Andrew Alston Cc: Owen DeLong ; Community Discuss ; Members Discuss Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC?s registry service migration to other RIRs Hi Andrew, On Sun, Aug 1, 2021 at 11:30 PM Andrew Alston > wrote: > It remains Andrew's personal opinion and not the consensus of 75% of the membership base. Can I suggest as a compromise position we then test this theory by putting the question of transfers to a member vote passed or failed by simple majority? Seeing that policy development is a matter of the PDWG community as CPM and Bylaws section 11.3), the majority membership dont have powers to do so and I was teasing Owen with that 75% and since the Bylaws amendment of 2020 in section 11.5) i and ii, not even the board has powers anymore to enforce any policy without the endorsement and consensus of the PDWG community. This worked for ripe with rpki when they took it to a members vote outside of the pdp? why not here? What worked in RIPE does not necessarily have to work here and we have shared the same sentiments with Jordi within the PDWG discussions. Cheers Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jordi.palet at consulintel.es Sun Aug 1 21:08:36 2021 From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ) Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2021 23:08:36 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s__registr?= =?utf-8?q?y_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> Message-ID: <89384A9E-D73B-46C4-BF71-EB416AF28B13@consulintel.es> And for clarity, no RIR (including RIPE NCC) used voting for matters that belong to PDP decisions. I think there is some confusion here, may be something taken out of context, not sure what is the issue, but a PDP matter that is decided by consensus hasn?t been decided by members voting. Hi Andrew, On Sun, Aug 1, 2021 at 11:30 PM Andrew Alston wrote: > It remains Andrew's personal opinion and not the consensus of 75% of the membership base. Can I suggest as a compromise position we then test this theory by putting the question of transfers to a member vote passed or failed by simple majority? Seeing that policy development is a matter of the PDWG community as CPM and Bylaws section 11.3), the majority membership dont have powers to do so and I was teasing Owen with that 75% and since the Bylaws amendment of 2020 in section 11.5) i and ii, not even the board has powers anymore to enforce any policy without the endorsement and consensus of the PDWG community. This worked for ripe with rpki when they took it to a members vote outside of the pdp? why not here? What worked in RIPE does not necessarily have to work here and we have shared the same sentiments with Jordi within the PDWG discussions. Cheers Noah _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Sun Aug 1 21:25:44 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 00:25:44 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Aug 2021, 00:06 Andrew Alston, wrote: > This is incorrect and in line actually with what I said - > Nop > > 1. Any policy adopted by the Board under the provisions of Article11.4 > shall be submitted to the community for endorsement at the next public > policy meeting. > > They adopt and submit to the PDWG. > 1. In the event that such a policy submitted by the Board is not > endorsed, the said policy shall not be enforced or implemented following > its non-endorsement; however, any action taken in terms of the policy prior > to such non-endorsement shall remain valid. > > AFRINIC Staff will only enforce or implement the adopted policy if and only if "we the people" aka the powerful PDWG, endorse the said policy. So dude, the wordings are carefully written. 1. Board adopts, PDWG endorse and finally Staff enforce/implements. Or 2. Board adopts, PDWG does not endorse, AFRINIC staff CAN NOT enforce/implement. Makes sense Andrew? > The board can pass a policy - valid till the next policy meeting - and if > the community doesn?t like it they can reverse it - in the mean time those > who feel the threat is to great can move in the intervening period. > Lol there is no **mean time dude** AFRINIC staff won't enforce or implement if "we the people" don't endorse. > The board can - and does - have the power to implement policy valid till > the next of wg > The board does not have the power unless "we the people" endorse. Cheers Noah > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com Sun Aug 1 21:42:10 2021 From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2021 21:42:10 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?windows-1252?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=92s_registr?= =?windows-1252?q?y_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> , Message-ID: Not at all - I quote: In the event that such a policy submitted by the Board is not endorsed, the said policy shall not be enforced or implemented following its non-endorsement; however, any action taken in terms of the policy prior to such non-endorsement shall remain valid. This clearly states that action can happen before the endorsement and remains valid - and it says shall. It be enforced or implemented *following its non-endorsement* - it is silent about pre-endorsement and then by implication states that there can be action pre pdp decision Andrew Get Outlook for iOS ________________________________ From: Noah Sent: Monday, August 2, 2021 00:26 To: Andrew Alston Cc: Owen DeLong; Community Discuss; Members Discuss Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC?s registry service migration to other RIRs On Mon, 2 Aug 2021, 00:06 Andrew Alston, > wrote: This is incorrect and in line actually with what I said - Nop 1. Any policy adopted by the Board under the provisions of Article11.4 shall be submitted to the community for endorsement at the next public policy meeting. They adopt and submit to the PDWG. 1. In the event that such a policy submitted by the Board is not endorsed, the said policy shall not be enforced or implemented following its non-endorsement; however, any action taken in terms of the policy prior to such non-endorsement shall remain valid. AFRINIC Staff will only enforce or implement the adopted policy if and only if "we the people" aka the powerful PDWG, endorse the said policy. So dude, the wordings are carefully written. 1. Board adopts, PDWG endorse and finally Staff enforce/implements. Or 2. Board adopts, PDWG does not endorse, AFRINIC staff CAN NOT enforce/implement. Makes sense Andrew? The board can pass a policy - valid till the next policy meeting - and if the community doesn?t like it they can reverse it - in the mean time those who feel the threat is to great can move in the intervening period. Lol there is no **mean time dude** AFRINIC staff won't enforce or implement if "we the people" don't endorse. The board can - and does - have the power to implement policy valid till the next of wg The board does not have the power unless "we the people" endorse. Cheers Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jordi.palet at consulintel.es Sun Aug 1 21:57:01 2021 From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ) Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2021 23:57:01 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s__registr?= =?utf-8?q?y_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> Message-ID: <77B645D6-93CA-4DF4-B44A-C1D64F0F69DF@consulintel.es> Hi Noah, Your interpretation on this is wrong. Read my detailed email a few days ago. 11.4 Allows the Board to define any policy regarding Internet Resources that they believe is urgently needed. This can be implemented ASAP the Board decides. The Board MUST also send the policy (11.5), as a policy proposal (because is the only way the PDWG works to reach consensus), to the PDWG for endorsement in the next meeting. If the PPM doesn?t endorse it, then the Policy will decay, but whatever happened meanwhile, will be ?legal? in terms of the PDP. Now the question here is: >From past experience in the other RIRs, implementing such Inter-RIR policy, takes a minimum of 6 months, probably even more (it took 12 months in other RIRs), because there is a need to coordinate all the RIR systems. AFRINIC can?t ?force? other RIRs to change their own agendas and workflows to address all the changes ?faster?. AFRINIC could be lucky and because all the other 4 RIRs already passed by this several times, may be the process is so much ?adjusted? and fine tunned that it may be faster. I already suggested many times the Board to do that, when I saw that the consensus was not achievable. They ignored that. So I don?t think they want to pass this now, more when there are several proposals in discussion and could be discussed in a PPM in a couple of months from now, the AC reconstituted, and the appeals resolved, etc. The Board can meanwhile, take measures so the implementation of a possible ?system? for an Inter-RIR proposal is advanced, in hope that one way or the other a proposal reach consensus. All that said, I expect that if the Board decides to draft that proposal/policy, they make sure that there is a clear statement that ensures that before any transfer, there is a confirmation of the resources being transferred are following the existing conditions in the RSA, CPM, etc., otherwise. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet On Mon, 2 Aug 2021, 00:06 Andrew Alston, wrote: This is incorrect and in line actually with what I said - Nop 1. Any policy adopted by the Board under the provisions of Article11.4 shall be submitted to the community for endorsement at the next public policy meeting. They adopt and submit to the PDWG. 1. In the event that such a policy submitted by the Board is not endorsed, the said policy shall not be enforced or implemented following its non-endorsement; however, any action taken in terms of the policy prior to such non-endorsement shall remain valid. AFRINIC Staff will only enforce or implement the adopted policy if and only if "we the people" aka the powerful PDWG, endorse the said policy. So dude, the wordings are carefully written. 1. Board adopts, PDWG endorse and finally Staff enforce/implements. Or 2. Board adopts, PDWG does not endorse, AFRINIC staff CAN NOT enforce/implement. Makes sense Andrew? The board can pass a policy - valid till the next policy meeting - and if the community doesn?t like it they can reverse it - in the mean time those who feel the threat is to great can move in the intervening period. Lol there is no **mean time dude** AFRINIC staff won't enforce or implement if "we the people" don't endorse. The board can - and does - have the power to implement policy valid till the next of wg The board does not have the power unless "we the people" endorse. Cheers Noah _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rfg at tristatelogic.com Sun Aug 1 22:51:27 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2021 15:51:27 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?=5Bapnic-talk=5D_Call_for_AFRINIC?= =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=99s_registry_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> Message-ID: <65894.1627858287@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In message <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933 at africaoncloud.net>, Paul Wollner wrote: >In the interest of internet continuity, another RIR should help AFRINIC (by >staff or infrastructure), to perform it's core registration services >function for the time being, until all AFRINIC litigation has been sorted >to avoid disruption to our African end users and businesses. This is just getting silly now. Has AFRINIC itself requested such extraordinary assistance? Has AFRINIC itself given any clear indication that its core registration services are in immediate peril? Regards, rfg From rfg at tristatelogic.com Sun Aug 1 22:53:58 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2021 15:53:58 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?=5Bripe-list=5D_Call_for_AFRINIC?= =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=99s_registry_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <65924.1627858438@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In message Lamiaa Chnayti wrote: >Well yes, because at some point, AFRINIC will most likely find itself in >the obligation to ask for staff support from other RIRs... And the evidence for this wild contention is? Note: Wishful thinking on your part doesn't count as "evidence". Regards, rfg From rfg at tristatelogic.com Mon Aug 2 00:10:29 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2021 17:10:29 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <66163.1627863029@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In message Christian Orozco wrote: >First of all, no one here wants AFRINIC to perish. I'm sorry, but you are just simply wrong about that. >Describing something as "shady" does not directly put one side into a >bad light, it's just that Yes, it does, and that is intentional. >If only there is an urgency to >inform everyone of AFRINIC's financial situation, then there will not be a >point of doubt at all in the first place. You and other members of "Team Cloud Innovation" are *creating* the doubt. We have seen this here in the USA also. A few Republican politicians say "People have doubts about the 2020 US election" and then some talking heads on Fox News say "People have doubts about the 2020 US election" and then a few more Republican politicians say "People have doubts about the 2020 US election" and then some talking heads on Fox News say again "People have doubts about the 2020 US election". Yes! It is true! Some people have doubts about the 2020 US election, specifically because some people with clear motives CAUSED THEM to have some doubts. It is still all "bovine excrement". In any case, we shall know on this coming Wednesday if all of these self- serving claims that "The sky is falling!"[1] have any validity or if they were all just parts of a coordinated disinformation campaign seeking to sow doubt and thus stampede people, like cattle, into the false belief that an imminent catastrophy is looming. It isn't infectious diseases that are contagious. So is panic and the poor judgements that some with that. (And some people here seem to be relying on that fact.) Regards, rfg [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henny_Penny From rfg at tristatelogic.com Mon Aug 2 00:19:50 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2021 17:19:50 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <66199.1627863590@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In message Christian Orozco wrote: >Owen said, the CORRECTION of behavior is what's being sought. I also have many outstanding quarrels with AFRINIC and I also fervently desire to see the organization's behavior be corrected. But I do not pursue these goals either at the point of a gun, or via a $1.8 BILLION dollar lawsuit. I do not do so because the ends do not justify the means, and I am a believer that change should be effected via democratic means, despite how frustrating that kind of process may be at times. What is happening right now is instead an attempt at a corporate coup, and a hostile takeover, all engineered by one company and by one man. This is the very opposite of democracy. Regards, rfg From rfg at tristatelogic.com Mon Aug 2 02:45:20 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2021 19:45:20 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] ICANN / fake news In-Reply-To: <19166B87-4F3A-446C-8863-B2D39C28F1EE@delong.com> Message-ID: <66636.1627872320@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In message <19166B87-4F3A-446C-8863-B2D39C28F1EE at delong.com>, Owen DeLong wrote: >While people often mistake ICANN for some form of authority, the reality is that for number >resources, ICANN is a puppet at the end of the strings pulled by the NRO If thing go as you & Lu clearly hope it will, then we may perhaps be able to witness an actual test of that hypothesis, i.e. we may find out what the ICANN position is on all this, and what it may do or may be willing and able to do in the event of some ACTUAL crisis... a crisis which provably DOES NOT EXIST at the moment. >I will also note, for the sake of completeness, that the NRO so far has not announced any >approval, disbursement, or activation of the NRO stability fund. Why should they? The lights are still on at AFRINIC, the servers are still running and performing their assigned duties... you just sent an email through one of them... and as far as I am aware, none of the actual AFRINIC employees who administer and operate any of AFRINIC's critical online systems have quit their jobs to look for gainful employment elsewhere. This is all a phony crisis... a tempest in a teacup... which has only been given a thin veneer of reality by a small number of sock puppets who are all quite clearly pushing the Cloud Innovation party line. If, as I expect, the financial freeze order is lifted this coming Wedneday... once BOTH PARTIES are at last before the judge and allowed to speak on this matter... then this completely fake "crisis" will disappear like a puff of smoke in the wind. Regards, rfg From rfg at tristatelogic.com Mon Aug 2 02:59:58 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2021 19:59:58 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] The "rights" of Cloud Innovation In-Reply-To: <6462FAC5-01D2-4121-80D7-1765A65DCE4B@delong.com> Message-ID: <66685.1627873198@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In message <6462FAC5-01D2-4121-80D7-1765A65DCE4B at delong.com>, Owen DeLong wrote: >OK, for the sake of argument, what would you have AFRINIC do to ensure >the protection of Cloud Innovations rights in that process? Cloud Innovation's legal rights in the case of a breach of the terms of the RSA by AFRINIC are fully spelled out in the text of the RSA itself. I respectfully suggest that you and all of the other amateur lawyers on this mailing list should try reading the RSA. Who knows? You might actually learn something. Regards, rfg P.S. The RSA is the one and only legally binding agreement that creates -any- legal connection between Cloud Innovation and AFRINIC. Contrary to some popular misconceptions, Cloud Innovation is *NOT* a stockholder or shareholder of AFRINIC. Thus, I say one more time for those who continue to deny simple reality, the RSA is the one and only legally binding connection between the parties. Everything else is just smoke and mirrors. From rfg at tristatelogic.com Mon Aug 2 03:15:53 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2021 20:15:53 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Resource Transfer Policy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <66748.1627874153@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In message , Ibeanusi Elvis ? wrote: >The idea of implementing the resource transfer policy not only gives the >resource members the right to choose but it protects them from the risk of >being entangled in the situations that the AFRINIC has found themselves in. >This transfer policy has reached a consensus... Do I get a vote? If so, then I vote NO. People who have been deliberately stampeded into a sense of immediate impending doom by coordinated disinformation "fake news" PR campaigns do not make the best decisions. A vivid case in point is the 2016 election of Donald J. Trump to be the President of the United States. When things calm down and when the current AFRINIC asset freeze is lifted, then cooler heads may prevail over the heat of the moment. Consideration of the Resource Transfer Policy can be and should be postponed until some later date when people are once again free to make rational, independent, and fully informed decisions. At the very least, no action should be taken on this policy proposal until at least this coming Wednesday, August 4th, in order to see what the outcome will be of the hearing to reverse the asset freeze. Surely, having already waited for many months for this policy proposal to move forward, it will not be an extraordinary inconvenience to wait just another 3 days to see what ALL of the relevant facts and circumstances will be at that time. Regards, rfg From rfg at tristatelogic.com Mon Aug 2 03:46:03 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Sun, 01 Aug 2021 20:46:03 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <66844.1627875963@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In message Lamiaa Chnayti wrote: >Attention Noah: I take note of your constant obsession with Larus... Please take note of mine also. Larus *is* Cloud Innovation and vise versa. To deny that is to deny simple reality. (Please google for the Japanese word "keiretsu".) Like Noah and a lot of other people, I also am "obsessed" with the entire Cloud Innovation / Larus keiretsu at the moment. Why should we not be? The organization is threatening to bankrupt AFRINIC with a $1.8 billion dollar lawsuit... a lawsuit that I have already demonstrated here has no merit. The entire umbrella organization and ownership structure is therefore a proper, reasonable, and ongoing focus of concern for every participant on this mailing list. Regards, rfg From robertford2 at icloud.com Mon Aug 2 05:24:19 2021 From: robertford2 at icloud.com (robert ford) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 07:24:19 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments In-Reply-To: <66199.1627863590@segfault.tristatelogic.com> References: <66199.1627863590@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: <81F6D8A3-40BA-4463-9E86-EE957408E1AE@icloud.com> Hello Ronald, I totally agree with you. One company, one man suffocating the life and bloodline of our way of life as we know it. Internet number resources are what we pride our today in. It?s survival, it?s everything. Some company can?t disrupt that course really. Like you clearly said, at some point we could have had an issue or two with AFRINIC but a lawsuit of 1.8 B is just a joke. Let?s hope the courts will do the right thing RF Sent from my iPhone > On 2 Aug 2021, at 02:22, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: > > ?In message > Christian Orozco wrote: > >> Owen said, the CORRECTION of behavior is what's being sought. > > I also have many outstanding quarrels with AFRINIC and I also fervently > desire to see the organization's behavior be corrected. > > But I do not pursue these goals either at the point of a gun, or via a > $1.8 BILLION dollar lawsuit. I do not do so because the ends do not > justify the means, and I am a believer that change should be effected > via democratic means, despite how frustrating that kind of process may > be at times. > > What is happening right now is instead an attempt at a corporate coup, > and a hostile takeover, all engineered by one company and by one man. > > This is the very opposite of democracy. > > > Regards, > rfg > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss From robertford2 at icloud.com Mon Aug 2 05:29:07 2021 From: robertford2 at icloud.com (robert ford) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 07:29:07 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] ICANN / fake news In-Reply-To: <66636.1627872320@segfault.tristatelogic.com> References: <66636.1627872320@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: Well put well put Ronald. You spelt it out clearly. I hope they have listened well. Sent from my iPhone > On 2 Aug 2021, at 04:48, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: > > ?In message <19166B87-4F3A-446C-8863-B2D39C28F1EE at delong.com>, > Owen DeLong wrote: > >> While people often mistake ICANN for some form of authority, the reality is that for number >> resources, ICANN is a puppet at the end of the strings pulled by the NRO > > If thing go as you & Lu clearly hope it will, then we may perhaps be > able to witness an actual test of that hypothesis, i.e. we may find out > what the ICANN position is on all this, and what it may do or may be > willing and able to do in the event of some ACTUAL crisis... a crisis > which provably DOES NOT EXIST at the moment. > >> I will also note, for the sake of completeness, that the NRO so far has not announced any >> approval, disbursement, or activation of the NRO stability fund. > > Why should they? The lights are still on at AFRINIC, the servers are > still running and performing their assigned duties... you just sent an > email through one of them... and as far as I am aware, none of the > actual AFRINIC employees who administer and operate any of AFRINIC's > critical online systems have quit their jobs to look for gainful > employment elsewhere. > > This is all a phony crisis... a tempest in a teacup... which has only > been given a thin veneer of reality by a small number of sock puppets > who are all quite clearly pushing the Cloud Innovation party line. > > If, as I expect, the financial freeze order is lifted this coming Wedneday... > once BOTH PARTIES are at last before the judge and allowed to speak on > this matter... then this completely fake "crisis" will disappear like > a puff of smoke in the wind. > > > Regards, > rfg > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss From b.sowers154 at gmail.com Mon Aug 2 05:47:10 2021 From: b.sowers154 at gmail.com (Brian Sowers) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 01:47:10 -0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= Message-ID: The transfer policy makes sense. AFRINIC should facilitate considerable latitude and agency for resource members to determine their own risks involved and whether to continue or not. Ratify the existing consensus Resource Transfer Policy. -Brian From ish.sookun at lasentinelle.mu Mon Aug 2 06:20:57 2021 From: ish.sookun at lasentinelle.mu (Ish Sookun) Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2021 10:20:57 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: <19166B87-4F3A-446C-8863-B2D39C28F1EE@delong.com> References: <19166B87-4F3A-446C-8863-B2D39C28F1EE@delong.com> Message-ID: <2983830.0Q3mJ6UETS@coffee-bar> Hi Owen, On Sunday, 1 August 2021 21:36:55 +04 Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss wrote: > There are very few powers that be for dealing with a situation where an > RIR?s board and/or management run amok and contrary to the rules which > govern them. The NRO cannot make any significant action without the > unanimous consent of all 5 RIR CEOs, so the NRO has no capacity to act to > correct an aberrant RIR. The only actions available to correct aberrant > behavior by an RIRs board are the ballot box (replace the board over the > course of 3 years, or bring an appropriate resolution at a general members > meeting (annual or special)) or the legal system (courts). Unfortunately, > AFRINIC?s bylaws are structured such that an aberrant board is allowed to > block virtually any motion it doesn?t like from being placed on the agenda > of a general members meeting. I see that AFRINIC has about 1,931 (as per [1]). From observation, a small number of members have expressed themselves on the members list on this matter. I haven't read enough expression or support for non-confidence on the board on the members list. So, what does a re-election solve here? IMHO it does not solve the current issue, does not help with the case, does not guarantee members of any more stability of the AFRINIC infra, but only seems like a hard hammer on a group of people who already have a lot on their plate right now. Regards, -- Ish Sookun [1] https://afrinic.net/membership/list From noah at neo.co.tz Mon Aug 2 06:23:24 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 09:23:24 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Resource Transfer Policy Proposal Is Under Appeals In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Aug 2021, 08:53 Brian Sowers, wrote: > The transfer policy makes sense. Not the Larus sponsored RTP which is under PDWG appeal. We got an email from a reliable source about the genesis of the Antony/Taiwo resource transfer policy so I know the motive which is now more clear in light of recent events. Ratify the existing consensus Resource Transfer Policy. I refer you to the below PDWG dispute. The submitted appeals against that resource transfer proposal remain open pending determination by an Appeal Committee. https://afrinic.net/policy/appeal-committee?lang=en#appeals *1st pending appeal against DPP *AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT04 (Resource Transfer Policy) https://afrinic.net/ast/pdf/policy/appeal-consensus-ressource-transfer-policy-updated-20102020.pdf *2nd pending appeal against DPP *AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT04 (Resource Transfer Policy) https://afrinic.net/ast/pdf/policy/afrinic-appeal-resource-transfer-policy. pdf The PDP process was not followed and I welcome you to review both appeal documents. Cheers, Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From abscoco at gmail.com Mon Aug 2 07:03:01 2021 From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain Baya) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 08:03:01 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Share About Cloud Innovation Ltd and their business In-Reply-To: References: <31299.1627244609@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <745F630B-A186-481C-9704-BCA2A0869089@delong.com> <418e1240-bbaa-b658-43aa-dfd75fc769db@geier.ne.tz> Message-ID: Dear AfriNIC's Community, Please see my comments below, inline... Le samedi 31 juillet 2021, Owen DeLong a ?crit : > > > On Jul 30, 2021, at 15:14 , Sylvain Baya wrote: > > Dear AfriNIC's Community, > > Le mercredi 28 juillet 2021, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss < > community-discuss at afrinic.net> a ?crit : > >> >> >>> >>>> [...] >>> >>> >>> >> You?re not answering the question I asked? >> >> > Hi Owen, > Thanks for your email, brother! > > > >> What is your basis in policy for claiming that a VM is OK, but leasing >> addresses without providing connectivity >> services is not? >> >> > ...you might have forgotten about a simple notion, > called: conservation. You shall recognize it as it has > been refered out there as *Reservations*. > > > I have not forgotten, but we are not talking about reservation. > > Hi Owen, Thanks to take time to reply to my email, brother. ...so, *we*! i assume the same *we* you usually use to call your team to support your personal interpretation of the facts? Btw, you are entitled to your own opinion. ...let's, at least, agree to disagree :-/ > > We are talking about deployment on an actual > host connected to the internet for legitimate use. > > ...again, *we*:=you+your_supporting_team, brother? For what it's worth, in order to lease community's ressources such as INRs, one shall *reserve* it first; otherwise, any of the end-users/clients shall come to the Registration Service to request the needed INRs; sure to find some there...and you know it: those must be incorporated within the AfriNIC's service region...they would save a lot of money comparing to what could be otherwise payed to an intermediary *LIR*...not *GIR*... ...note that no AfriNIC's Resource Member is a GIR (Global Internet Registry) but all are LIRs (Local Internet Registries) established/approved to serve their local economic zone and free to deploy their business accross the whole AfriNIC's service region, wherever they can extend it; legally speaking. > > The difference? The only difference? Is that the > connectivity service does not come from the same provider as the addresses. > > ...if...then, please see above! You seem to read the CPM selectively, if not why could you ignore the notion of valid assignments and SAW. ...icymi, please see here: copy -> paste: ~?~ Yes! i took the responsibility to bring the CPM section 5.5 | IPv4 LIR/ISP Allocations (5.5.1 Allocation policies and guidelines) to you, in case it might have been a too hard task to go it the location of that content. Please accept to read it... ...i did it with the naive expectation that it could help the PDWG to move forward on some recuring topics, such as Internet number resources (at least for IPv4 types) utilisation and responsibilities thereof, within the AfriNIC's service region. Therefore permit me to recommend the following subventions to your particular attention: ??? ? 5.5.1.1.3 If an LIR plans to exchange or transfer address space, it needs to contact AFRINIC so that the changes are properly registered. ? 5.5.1.2.3 Must show an existing efficient utilization of IP addresses from their upstream provider. ? 5.5.1.3 Slow start mechanism for first allocations ? 5.5.1.4.1 An LIR may receive an additional allocation when about 80% of all the address space currently allocated to it has been used in valid assignments and/or sub-allocations. ? 5.5.1.4.2 Reservations are not considered as valid assignments or sub-allocations. ? 5.5.1.7 Documentation ? 5.5.1.8 Network infrastructure (of LIR) vs End-User networks ? 5.5.1.9 Utilisation ? 5.5.1.10 Reservations not supported ? 5.5.1.11 Validity of an assignment ? 5.5.1.13 Sub-Allocation Window (SAW) ? 5.5.1.13.1 A sub-allocation window (SAW) refers to the maximum number of IPv4 addresses that the LIR may sub-allocate to the end-users without seeking approval from AFRINIC. ? 5.5.1.13.2 AFRINIC will review sub-allocation made by the LIR's using their SAW to ensure that policies are followed correctly. ? 5.5.1.13.3 Below are a few guidelines for the SAW: ? 5.5.1.14 Recordkeeping by LIRs ??? Please let me know if it was a bad initiative :-/ Thanks. Source: ~?~ > Please read again the CPM at section 5: > > ~?~ > [...] > ? 5.5.1.4.1 An LIR may receive an additional allocation when about 80% of > all the address space currently allocated to it has been used in valid > assignments and/or sub-allocations. > ? 5.5.1.4.2 *Reservations* are not considered as valid assignments or > sub-allocations. > [...] > ~?~ > > > Yep? that?s not a prohibition on valid assignment and/or sub allocation > independent of > connectivity services, that?s a prohibition of addresses not being > attached to hosts. > > ...don't divide/separate the tools, please. It's not allowed. The implementers use it all: Bylaws+RSA+CPM to the good of the AfriNIC's service region. Do you want to change something? ...you know how to try! > > It?s simply not prohibited anywhere in policy. >> >> > Are you serious? > > ...going further, along with what i wrote above, note > that *conservation* is not valid, that appears to be > the best description of leasing...of INRs. > > > Nope? It?s not a good description at all. Reservations (as prohibited in > 5.5.1.4.2) refers > ...i'm already convinced it is! You shall accept it as is :-) Do you want to change it? to addresses set aside for later use?Addresses not currently assigned to > active hosts. > > ...your words, mine :-/ CPM section 5.5.1.4.2 says: ~?~ 5.5.1.4.2 Reservations are not considered as valid assignments or sub-allocations. It may be useful for internal aggregation to keep some IP blocks free for future growth. These internal reservations are however not counted as valid usage and must be assigned or sub-allocated before requesting for additional allocation. ~?~ ...my understanding of *reservation* include yours. Hence, there are other possibilities. You can not change that. Feel free to try with other tactics... > Such is not the case with leasing. With leasing, the addresses are > assigned to hosts active > on the internet, but the hosts may be getting their connectivity from a > different provider than > they are getting the addresses from. > This is not a practice allowed within the AfriNIC's service region , you should understand it...but feel free to keep your business logic...describing it as you want, will not change what it is in reality... CPM sections 5.5.1.10 & 5.5.1.11 say: ~?~ 5.5.1.10 Reservations not supported End-users are not permitted to reserve address space based on long term plans. This violates the goal of conservation and fragments the address space when initial forecasts are not met. If an LIR wants to assign address space for customers, it must make the assignments from any unallocated or unassigned address space it currently holds. For the purposes evaluating allocation requests, space reserved by an LIR for other customers is considered unused. 5.5.1.11 Validity of an assignment Assignments remain valid as long as the original criteria on which the assignment was based are still in place and the assignment is registered in the AFRINIC database. An assignment is therefore invalid if it is not registered in the database and if the purpose for which it was registered has changed or no longer holds. ~?~ ...yes! again: *the purpose* [1] coupled with the RSA section 4(c)(i), to not say all the full section 4. titled: *Conditions of service*. __ [1]: < https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-July/004137.html> > > Those who are charged to implement the CPM have > indicated the same. Could you, please, show us > where the CPM allows it? > > > If they have indicated this, then they are simply in error as that is not > what it actually says. > I have not noticed AFRINIC staff referring to this section as prohibiting > leasing, but perhaps > their reference escaped me at some point. > > It does not need to be specifically permitted. That which is not > prohibited is permitted implicitly. > > ...permitted where? Have you tried to put Bylaws+RSA+CPM together? Please try, then come back with your results. Unless there is an explicit requirement in the CPM that hosts receive > connectivity services from > the same provider which provides their addresses, then independent > assignment is inherently > permitted and this is the current state. > > ...the current course is otherwise, and you know it. Again, when there is an established RIR, to serve LIRs and End-Users within its own service region... it's by definition the responsibility of the latters to serve their local end-users, if applicable...i'm ready to agree if you point me to any section of the CPM, the Bylaws or the RSA where it's clearly stated that AfriNIC shall allocate/assign INRs to GIRs (*Global* Internet Registries) or *Global* End-Users. As long as there is no mention of the existence of GIRs within the AfriNIC service region, you shall understand that out-of-region assignments or sub-allocations could not be the normal trend... ...i'm awaiting :-/ > I hope you now understand the difference between a reservation (holding > unused addresses, > You expect me to understand what? ...please see above and get my answer from there. > such as what Seacom and many others are doing) vs. providing addresses > that are actually > in use, but not simultaneously providing transit or transport services. > > ...don't mix problems, do fill your complain appropriately, please, and the community shall address it usual. Thanks to stop your divertion! but you are free to continue to support some wrong doings... Have a blessed monday! Shalom, --sb. > Owen > > > Shalom, > --sb. > > >> >> Or wait... I can not find this so-called LIR *Cloud Innovation Limited* with >>> offices in Seychelles using this BGP tool. >>> >>> >>> *https://bgp.he.net/country/SC * >>> >> >> And? >> > [...] >> > > -- -- Best Regards ! __ baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]| Subscribe to Mailing List: __ #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|#?Romains15?:33?Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec vous tous! ?#?Amen?!? ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement? ?Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!?(#Psaumes42:2) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barry.macharia at me.com Mon Aug 2 07:03:16 2021 From: barry.macharia at me.com (Barry Macharia) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 10:03:16 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8E7F6CBC-566D-4552-BF7D-146BDA02E0A7@me.com> What risk ? a mad man in a market does not make the whole market mad? Get some time and read the RSA if you read it loud and clear , thats the only relationship Afrinic and CL that exists, as a resource holder i will back Afrinic to the last minute , lets wait for the courts to decide. i find it rather crazy that you sue your parents for using the cane on you , then go back and say i want a share my inheritance my two cents Barry > On 2 Aug 2021, at 08:49, Brian Sowers wrote: > ?The transfer policy makes sense. AFRINIC should facilitate considerable latitude and agency for resource members to determine their own risks involved and whether to continue or not. Ratify the existing consensus Resource Transfer Policy. > > -Brian > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss From amelnaud at gmail.com Mon Aug 2 08:11:22 2021 From: amelnaud at gmail.com (Arnaud AMELINA) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 08:11:22 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] The "rights" of Cloud Innovation In-Reply-To: <66685.1627873198@segfault.tristatelogic.com> References: <6462FAC5-01D2-4121-80D7-1765A65DCE4B@delong.com> <66685.1627873198@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: Pas tout ? fait vrai Ronald, quand tu lis le RSA, il fait clairement recours au Bylaws et au CPM, donc pr?tendre que seul le RSA relie Afrinic ? CI, s'est faire preuve de mauvaise fois et limit? le champ d'action des autres textes qui sont bel et bien li?s. Merci de relire aussi le RSA tu y apprendrais beaucoup aussi. Bonne journ?e. -- Arnaud Le lun. 2 ao?t 2021 ? 03:02, Ronald F. Guilmette a ?crit : > In message <6462FAC5-01D2-4121-80D7-1765A65DCE4B at delong.com>, > Owen DeLong wrote: > > >OK, for the sake of argument, what would you have AFRINIC do to ensure > >the protection of Cloud Innovations rights in that process? > > Cloud Innovation's legal rights in the case of a breach of the terms > of the RSA by AFRINIC are fully spelled out in the text of the RSA > itself. > > I respectfully suggest that you and all of the other amateur lawyers > on this mailing list should try reading the RSA. Who knows? You might > actually learn something. > > > Regards, > rfg > > > P.S. The RSA is the one and only legally binding agreement that > creates -any- legal connection between Cloud Innovation and > AFRINIC. > > Contrary to some popular misconceptions, Cloud Innovation is *NOT* > a stockholder or shareholder of AFRINIC. Thus, I say one more time > for those who continue to deny simple reality, the RSA is the one > and only legally binding connection between the parties. Everything > else is just smoke and mirrors. > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Mon Aug 2 08:23:39 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 11:23:39 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] ICANN ( NRO ) vs LARUS (NRA) Message-ID: Owen, I have some questions for you... On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 20:43 Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss, < community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > > While people often mistake ICANN for some form of authority, the reality > is that for number > resources, ICANN is a puppet at the end of the strings pulled by the NRO > (which acts in the > role of ICANN ASO). > Your association with LARUS has really got you off the rails. No wonder Larus has created the so called purported organization called the *Number Resource Alliance* aka NRA whose website is https://www.nra.help/ Since you claim that ICANN is a puppet of the NRO, and not an authority, is that why your LARUS which is linked to Cloud Innovation Ltd created this so called *NRA* organisation. Are IPv4 brokers now forming their own system? Against ICANN and the NRO? I ask because your sentiments that ICANN is a puppet are really wanting. Cheers, Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amelnaud at gmail.com Mon Aug 2 08:31:29 2021 From: amelnaud at gmail.com (Arnaud AMELINA) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 08:31:29 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] ICANN ( NRO ) vs LARUS (NRA) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: @Noah +1000000..... Yeah we need his sentiments on that. Please answer, Owen, now we can understand you resignation from ARIN's AC, hummmm interesting things.... Waiting for your reaction on that. Le lun. 2 ao?t 2021 ? 08:26, Noah a ?crit : > Owen, > > I have some questions for you... > > On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 20:43 Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss, < > community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > >> >> While people often mistake ICANN for some form of authority, the reality >> is that for number >> resources, ICANN is a puppet at the end of the strings pulled by the NRO >> (which acts in the >> role of ICANN ASO). >> > > Your association with LARUS has really got you off the rails. > > No wonder Larus has created the so called purported organization called > the *Number Resource Alliance* aka NRA whose website is > https://www.nra.help/ > > Since you claim that ICANN is a puppet of the NRO, and not an authority, > is that why your LARUS which is linked to Cloud Innovation Ltd created this > so called *NRA* organisation. > > Are IPv4 brokers now forming their own system? Against ICANN and the NRO? > > I ask because your sentiments that ICANN is a puppet are really wanting. > > Cheers, > Noah > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From silber.mike at gmail.com Mon Aug 2 08:42:24 2021 From: silber.mike at gmail.com (Mike Silber) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 10:42:24 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] ICANN ( NRO ) vs LARUS (NRA) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <512A3CAD-8AA5-4AF8-A86A-0D9BC52908EF@gmail.com> Hi Noah Without getting into the content of your mail and without endorsing the specific language chosen by Owen: The RIRs are independent and ICANN does not in any way direct or control the RIRs. The RIRs chose to operate within the ICANN framework, however can move the NRO / ASO out of ICANN at any time (including moving the contract out of PTI as well). So I would not characterise ICANN as ?puppet? of the NRO - but rather a framework within which an independent NRO choses to operate. That may be a distinction without a difference - so I am not offended by Owen?s choice of words. Mike > On 2 Aug 2021, at 10:23, Noah wrote: > > Owen, > > I have some questions for you... > > On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 20:43 Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss, > wrote: > > While people often mistake ICANN for some form of authority, the reality is that for number > resources, ICANN is a puppet at the end of the strings pulled by the NRO (which acts in the > role of ICANN ASO). > > Your association with LARUS has really got you off the rails. > > No wonder Larus has created the so called purported organization called the *Number Resource Alliance* aka NRA whose website is https://www.nra.help/ > > Since you claim that ICANN is a puppet of the NRO, and not an authority, is that why your LARUS which is linked to Cloud Innovation Ltd created this so called *NRA* organisation. > > Are IPv4 brokers now forming their own system? Against ICANN and the NRO? > > I ask because your sentiments that ICANN is a puppet are really wanting. > > Cheers, > Noah > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Mon Aug 2 08:49:37 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 11:49:37 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] ICANN ( NRO ) vs LARUS (NRA) In-Reply-To: <512A3CAD-8AA5-4AF8-A86A-0D9BC52908EF@gmail.com> References: <512A3CAD-8AA5-4AF8-A86A-0D9BC52908EF@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Mike Thank you for your reply and opinion on the matter. I am personally offended by Owens choice of words against ICANN. The existence of an RIR is only possible through ICANN ICP-2 and for him to refer to ICANN as a puppet is offending. AFRINIC would not have existed without the ICANN structures. Noah On Mon, 2 Aug 2021, 11:42 Mike Silber, wrote: > Hi Noah > > Without getting into the content of your mail and without endorsing the > specific language chosen by Owen: The RIRs are independent and ICANN does > not in any way direct or control the RIRs. > > The RIRs chose to operate within the ICANN framework, however can move the > NRO / ASO out of ICANN at any time (including moving the contract out of > PTI as well). > > So I would not characterise ICANN as ?puppet? of the NRO - but rather a > framework within which an independent NRO choses to operate. That may be a > distinction without a difference - so I am not offended by Owen?s choice of > words. > > Mike > > On 2 Aug 2021, at 10:23, Noah wrote: > > Owen, > > I have some questions for you... > > On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 20:43 Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss, < > community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > >> >> While people often mistake ICANN for some form of authority, the reality >> is that for number >> resources, ICANN is a puppet at the end of the strings pulled by the NRO >> (which acts in the >> role of ICANN ASO). >> > > Your association with LARUS has really got you off the rails. > > No wonder Larus has created the so called purported organization called > the *Number Resource Alliance* aka NRA whose website is > https://www.nra.help/ > > Since you claim that ICANN is a puppet of the NRO, and not an authority, > is that why your LARUS which is linked to Cloud Innovation Ltd created this > so called *NRA* organisation. > > Are IPv4 brokers now forming their own system? Against ICANN and the NRO? > > I ask because your sentiments that ICANN is a puppet are really wanting. > > Cheers, > Noah > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ubah.tonyiyke at gmail.com Mon Aug 2 11:11:59 2021 From: ubah.tonyiyke at gmail.com (Anthony Ubah) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 07:11:59 -0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] ICANN ( NRO ) vs LARUS (NRA) In-Reply-To: <512A3CAD-8AA5-4AF8-A86A-0D9BC52908EF@gmail.com> References: <512A3CAD-8AA5-4AF8-A86A-0D9BC52908EF@gmail.com> Message-ID: +1 @Mike Agression and name calling has gradually become the order of the day. On Mon, Aug 2, 2021, 4:44 AM Mike Silber wrote: > Hi Noah > > Without getting into the content of your mail and without endorsing the > specific language chosen by Owen: The RIRs are independent and ICANN does > not in any way direct or control the RIRs. > > The RIRs chose to operate within the ICANN framework, however can move the > NRO / ASO out of ICANN at any time (including moving the contract out of > PTI as well). > > So I would not characterise ICANN as ?puppet? of the NRO - but rather a > framework within which an independent NRO choses to operate. That may be a > distinction without a difference - so I am not offended by Owen?s choice of > words. > > Mike > > On 2 Aug 2021, at 10:23, Noah wrote: > > Owen, > > I have some questions for you... > > On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 20:43 Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss, < > community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > >> >> While people often mistake ICANN for some form of authority, the reality >> is that for number >> resources, ICANN is a puppet at the end of the strings pulled by the NRO >> (which acts in the >> role of ICANN ASO). >> > > Your association with LARUS has really got you off the rails. > > No wonder Larus has created the so called purported organization called > the *Number Resource Alliance* aka NRA whose website is > https://www.nra.help/ > > Since you claim that ICANN is a puppet of the NRO, and not an authority, > is that why your LARUS which is linked to Cloud Innovation Ltd created this > so called *NRA* organisation. > > Are IPv4 brokers now forming their own system? Against ICANN and the NRO? > > I ask because your sentiments that ICANN is a puppet are really wanting. > > Cheers, > Noah > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ubah.tonyiyke at gmail.com Mon Aug 2 11:44:23 2021 From: ubah.tonyiyke at gmail.com (Anthony Ubah) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 07:44:23 -0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Resource Transfer Policy Proposal Is Under Appeals In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Noah, I demand you produce this email, and all evidence surrounding this claim. Your obsession has really come to the edge at this time. You delusion of grandeur constantly pushes you towards aggression and personal attacks while responding to 'every single post' on every mailinglist. Please note that libel has consequences. Regards, Anthony On Mon, Aug 2, 2021, 2:25 AM Noah wrote: > > > On Mon, 2 Aug 2021, 08:53 Brian Sowers, wrote: > >> The transfer policy makes sense. > > > Not the Larus sponsored RTP which is under PDWG appeal. We got an email > from a reliable source about the genesis of the Antony/Taiwo resource > transfer policy so I know the motive which is now more clear in light of > recent events. > > Ratify the existing consensus Resource Transfer Policy. > > > I refer you to the below PDWG dispute. > > The submitted appeals against that resource transfer proposal remain open > pending determination by an Appeal Committee. > > https://afrinic.net/policy/appeal-committee?lang=en#appeals > > *1st pending appeal against DPP *AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT04 (Resource > Transfer Policy) > > https://afrinic.net/ast/pdf/policy/appeal-consensus-ressource-transfer-policy-updated-20102020.pdf > > *2nd pending appeal against DPP *AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT04 (Resource > Transfer Policy) > https://afrinic.net/ast/pdf/policy/afrinic-appeal-resource-transfer-policy. > > pdf > > The PDP process was not followed and I welcome you to review both appeal > documents. > > Cheers, > Noah > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From comms at afrinic.net Mon Aug 2 12:29:04 2021 From: comms at afrinic.net (AFRINIC Communication) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 16:29:04 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Reminder on the AFRINIC Code of Conduct Message-ID: <3EDE5D03-6500-4711-96DB-DF9BD642E4BB@afrinic.net> Dear Colleagues, We urge you all to read the AFRINIC Code of Conduct to make sure you are up to date on the processes that safeguard the discussion and community-driven policies at the heart of AFRINIC. The code of conduct ensures that discussions are kept professional and that individuals are protected against defamatory, derogatory and personal attacks. Please read the following blog post for more information on the AFRINIC Code of Conduct: https://afrinic.net/20200903-code-of-conduct Kind regards, AFRINIC Communications ?????????????... Chers coll?gues, Nous vous invitons ? lire ce document pour vous assurer que vous ?tes au courant de notre code de conduite et des processus qui prot?gent la discussion et les politiques communautaires au c?ur d'AFRINIC. Le code de conduite garantit que les discussions restent professionnelles et que les individus sont prot?g?s contre les attaques diffamatoires, d?sobligeantes et personnelles. Veuillez lire le blog suivant sur le code de conduite d'AFRINIC : https://afrinic.net/20200903-code-of-conduct. Cordialement AFRINIC Communications From abscoco at gmail.com Mon Aug 2 12:49:24 2021 From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain Baya) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 13:49:24 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] ICANN ( NRO ) vs LARUS (NRA) In-Reply-To: References: <512A3CAD-8AA5-4AF8-A86A-0D9BC52908EF@gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear AfriNIC's Community, Le lundi 2 ao?t 2021, Noah a ?crit : > Hi Mike > > Hi Noah, Thanks for your email, brother! ...it's time to learn about the RIR system's history. > Thank you for your reply and opinion on the matter. > > I am personally offended by Owens choice of words against ICANN. > > The existence of an RIR is only possible through ICANN ICP-2 and for him > to refer to ICANN as a puppet is offending. > > AFRINIC would not have existed without the ICANN structures. > Exact! For those who need an anchor to start with, please look at RFC7020: The Internet Numbers Registry System Shalom, --sb. > > Noah > > On Mon, 2 Aug 2021, 11:42 Mike Silber, wrote: > >> Hi Noah >> >> Without getting into the content of your mail and without endorsing the >> specific language chosen by Owen: The RIRs are independent and ICANN does >> not in any way direct or control the RIRs. >> >> The RIRs chose to operate within the ICANN framework, however can move >> the NRO / ASO out of ICANN at any time (including moving the contract out >> of PTI as well). >> >> So I would not characterise ICANN as ?puppet? of the NRO - but rather a >> framework within which an independent NRO choses to operate. That may be a >> distinction without a difference - so I am not offended by Owen?s choice of >> words. >> >> Mike >> >> On 2 Aug 2021, at 10:23, Noah wrote: >> >> Owen, >> >> I have some questions for you... >> >> On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 20:43 Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss, < >> community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: >> >>> >>> While people often mistake ICANN for some form of authority, the reality >>> is that for number >>> resources, ICANN is a puppet at the end of the strings pulled by the NRO >>> (which acts in the >>> role of ICANN ASO). >>> >> >> Your association with LARUS has really got you off the rails. >> >> No wonder Larus has created the so called purported organization called >> the *Number Resource Alliance* aka NRA whose website is >> https://www.nra.help/ >> >> Since you claim that ICANN is a puppet of the NRO, and not an authority, >> is that why your LARUS which is linked to Cloud Innovation Ltd created this >> so called *NRA* organisation. >> >> Are IPv4 brokers now forming their own system? Against ICANN and the >> NRO? >> >> I ask because your sentiments that ICANN is a puppet are really wanting. >> >> Cheers, >> Noah >> >> >> [...] >> >> >> -- -- Best Regards ! __ baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]| Subscribe to Mailing List: __ #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|#?Romains15?:33?Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec vous tous! ?#?Amen?!? ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement? ?Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!?(#Psaumes42:2) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net Mon Aug 2 13:06:17 2021 From: Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net (Omo Oaiya) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 14:06:17 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] ICANN ( NRO ) vs LARUS (NRA) In-Reply-To: References: <512A3CAD-8AA5-4AF8-A86A-0D9BC52908EF@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Aug 2021 at 12:14, Anthony Ubah wrote: > +1 @Mike > > Agression and name calling has gradually become the order of the day. > I am not supporting any breach of the CoC, but high time! The days of passive Africans and sellouts who stand by and let external parties purloin resources intended for the continent for whatever trumped-up reason belong in our past. Some of us struggle to keep up and so don't comment as much. Keep up the tempo Noah! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lamiaachnayti at gmail.com Mon Aug 2 13:48:19 2021 From: lamiaachnayti at gmail.com (Lamiaa Chnayti) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 14:48:19 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] ICANN ( NRO ) vs LARUS (NRA) In-Reply-To: References: <512A3CAD-8AA5-4AF8-A86A-0D9BC52908EF@gmail.com> Message-ID: Without any hesitation, our continent always comes first. Unfortunately, if some other members weren?t so obsessed with diverting the scenario due to their personal motives and conflicts, you should clearly see that the goal remains the same, and the only difference is the way to achieve it. The mailing list is now bombarded with useless threads, but as I?ve mentioned elsewhere, Africa and its Internet deserve better than what AFRINIC?s poor decisions and management are putting them through. I am sure that Africa isn?t short of highly qualified and competent firms that can benefit our Internet better than AFRINIC. So yes, Africa has always and will always have my support, but not AFRINIC.. Best regards, Lamiaa Le lun. 2 ao?t 2021 ? 14:07, Omo Oaiya a ?crit : > > On Mon, 2 Aug 2021 at 12:14, Anthony Ubah wrote: > >> +1 @Mike >> >> Agression and name calling has gradually become the order of the day. >> > > I am not supporting any breach of the CoC, but high time! > > The days of passive Africans and sellouts who stand by and let external > parties purloin resources intended for the continent for whatever > trumped-up reason belong in our past. > > Some of us struggle to keep up and so don't comment as much. Keep up the > tempo Noah! > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -- Lamiaa CHNAYTI -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From silber.mike at gmail.com Mon Aug 2 13:49:24 2021 From: silber.mike at gmail.com (Mike Silber) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 15:49:24 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] ICANN ( NRO ) vs LARUS (NRA) In-Reply-To: References: <512A3CAD-8AA5-4AF8-A86A-0D9BC52908EF@gmail.com> Message-ID: <56532900-3DF9-4494-802A-707374D4C6A5@gmail.com> Hi Sylvain I respectfully disagree. ICANN is a convenience through which the RIR?s operate. The rest of the NRO recognised AfriNIC and could have done so without ICANN involvement - had they so chosen. As it is - the NRO fulfils the role of ASO within ICANN and it could terminate the ASO / NRO nexus at any time with little to no impact. Did you miss this in RFC 7020: The Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) *is a role, not an organization*. For the Internet Numbers Registry System, the IANA role manages the top of the IP address and AS number allocation hierarchies. The Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) *currently fulfills the IANA role" in accordance with the IETF-ICANN "Memorandum of Understanding Concerning Technical Work of the Internet Assigned Numbers Authority", which was signed and ratified in March 2000 It is the RIRs who chose ICANN and not the other way around. Mike > On 2 Aug 2021, at 14:49, Sylvain Baya wrote: > > Dear AfriNIC's Community, > > Le lundi 2 ao?t 2021, Noah > a ?crit : > Hi Mike > > > Hi Noah, > > Thanks for your email, brother! > > ...it's time to learn about the RIR system's history. > > > Thank you for your reply and opinion on the matter. > > I am personally offended by Owens choice of words against ICANN. > > The existence of an RIR is only possible through ICANN ICP-2 and for him to refer to ICANN as a puppet is offending. > > AFRINIC would not have existed without the ICANN structures. > > > Exact! > > For those who need an anchor to start with, > please look at RFC7020: > > The Internet Numbers Registry System > > > > Shalom, > --sb. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From silber.mike at gmail.com Mon Aug 2 13:55:37 2021 From: silber.mike at gmail.com (Mike Silber) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 15:55:37 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] ICANN ( NRO ) vs LARUS (NRA) In-Reply-To: References: <512A3CAD-8AA5-4AF8-A86A-0D9BC52908EF@gmail.com> Message-ID: <78371DBC-AF42-4D66-AE35-E61238D45AA0@gmail.com> Please leave me out of it Noah and I are able to have a civilised conversation and a respectful disagreement, without third parties trying to stoke some imagined grievance. > On 2 Aug 2021, at 13:11, Anthony Ubah wrote: > > +1 @Mike > > Agression and name calling has gradually become the order of the day. > > > On Mon, Aug 2, 2021, 4:44 AM Mike Silber > wrote: > Hi Noah > > Without getting into the content of your mail and without endorsing the specific language chosen by Owen: The RIRs are independent and ICANN does not in any way direct or control the RIRs. > > The RIRs chose to operate within the ICANN framework, however can move the NRO / ASO out of ICANN at any time (including moving the contract out of PTI as well). > > So I would not characterise ICANN as ?puppet? of the NRO - but rather a framework within which an independent NRO choses to operate. That may be a distinction without a difference - so I am not offended by Owen?s choice of words. > > Mike > >> On 2 Aug 2021, at 10:23, Noah > wrote: >> >> Owen, >> >> I have some questions for you... >> >> On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 20:43 Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss, > wrote: >> >> While people often mistake ICANN for some form of authority, the reality is that for number >> resources, ICANN is a puppet at the end of the strings pulled by the NRO (which acts in the >> role of ICANN ASO). >> >> Your association with LARUS has really got you off the rails. >> >> No wonder Larus has created the so called purported organization called the *Number Resource Alliance* aka NRA whose website is https://www.nra.help/ >> >> Since you claim that ICANN is a puppet of the NRO, and not an authority, is that why your LARUS which is linked to Cloud Innovation Ltd created this so called *NRA* organisation. >> >> Are IPv4 brokers now forming their own system? Against ICANN and the NRO? >> >> I ask because your sentiments that ICANN is a puppet are really wanting. >> >> Cheers, >> Noah >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mirriamlauren at yahoo.com Mon Aug 2 14:04:46 2021 From: mirriamlauren at yahoo.com (Mirriam) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 14:04:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Community-Discuss] ICANN ( NRO ) vs LARUS (NRA) In-Reply-To: References: <512A3CAD-8AA5-4AF8-A86A-0D9BC52908EF@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1010403597.1249550.1627913086089@mail.yahoo.com> On Monday, August 2, 2021, 4:49:26 PM GMT+3, Lamiaa Chnayti wrote: ?>>So yes, Africa has always and will always have my support, but not AFRINIC.. If that is the case, what are you doing on the AFRNIC mailing lists? Mirriam Le?lun. 2 ao?t 2021 ? 14:07, Omo Oaiya a ?crit?: On Mon, 2 Aug 2021 at 12:14, Anthony Ubah wrote: +1 @Mike Agression and name calling has gradually become the order of the day. I am not supporting any breach of the CoC, but high time!?? The days of passive Africans and sellouts who stand by and let external parties purloin resources intended for the continent for whatever trumped-up reason belong in our past.? Some of us struggle to keep up and so don't comment as much.? Keep up the tempo Noah!_______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -- Lamiaa CHNAYTI _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chresgoro at gmail.com Mon Aug 2 14:04:45 2021 From: chresgoro at gmail.com (Christian Orozco) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 22:04:45 +0800 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> Message-ID: I definitely concur with the suggestion of passing a transfer policy. It provides much autonomy which is crucial in the current circumstances. Freedom of choice is very important especially now that the discussion has ramped up and more uncertainties are coming from AFRINIC. It is about time that we allow those willing to scale and assess the risks to just do so. Right? Moreover, a more capable registry can provide better service possibly along with lower fees and even a more stable governance. With better resource handling, all these benefits can be enjoyed by users. Isn't that what is important? Regards, Christian On Sun, Aug 1, 2021 at 8:39 PM Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss < community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > It is my (personal) view that AfriNIC board should exercise their powers > and pass a transfer policy. > > Let those who wish to run the risks of staying with AfriNIC through this > situation do so - let those who choose not to accept the risk profile > transfer out - problem solved. > > It is entirely within the boards powers to pass emergency policy which the > community can revoke at the next pdp should they wish to do so - and if > AfriNIC has the support claimed by members of this list there is absolutely > zero risk in this approach. > > Furthermore - such an approach would also remove the possibility of other > legal action which may be taken against them on grounds removed from the > current legal situation > > I remind everyone that AfriNIC has a duty to act in the interests of its > members - and AfriNIC has repeatedly stated in the press - and has been > echoed by various ISP associations that there is risk here - it should > therefore stand that AfriNIC provide members with a way to mitigate said > risk if it is within their powers to do so > > Again - a personal view - and again - I explicitly will not comment on the > merits or demerits of this case - since I believe that the legal system > should run its course and be the final arbiter of what is correct in this > situation. In fact I find the amount of legal posturing on this list to be > nothing short of bizarre - let the courts do their work - but let members > mitigate their risks as they see fit > > > Andrew > > Get Outlook for iOS > ------------------------------ > *From:* Taiwo Oye > *Sent:* Sunday, August 1, 2021 3:00:32 PM > *To:* Paul Wollner > *Cc:* arin-discuss ; secretariat < > secretariat at nro.net>; Community Discuss ; > apnic-talk ; ripe-list ; > Members Discuss > *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for AFRINIC?s registry service > migration to other RIRs > > Good day all, > > I think paul made some sense in his first statement (tho the statement has > been watered down now). > > If afrinic is in a financial fix or in a state where it is tending towards > a financial situation where it can no longer perform its duties, it is only > right to start weighing all viable options to keep the registry afloat. > Paul made a suggestion - tho a bit aggressively - about the NRO coming to > save the region. > I will like the community to see this as ?option 1?. > > Does any other community member have any better suggestion in the (not so > likely) situation that afrinic does not have the financial capability to > carry out its duties? > > If so, please lay them out for discussion amongst the community members. > > If not, Option 1 remains the only alternative to cushion the effect of the > financial breakdown. > > That being said. I think we should think in the direction of way forward > and have a plan ready rather than crucifying Paul for being proactive. > > On Aug 1, 2021, at 11:01, Paul Wollner > wrote: > > ? > > Hello community > > I think I misused the word ?take over? to spike some unfortunate > sentiments. > > Let me try this again: > In the interest of internet continuity, another RIR should help AFRINIC > (by staff or infrastructure), to perform it?s core registration service > function for the time being, until all AFRINIC litigation has been sorted > to avoid disruption to our African end users and businesses. > > Regards > Paul > > > > ---- On Thu, 29 Jul 2021 23:38:32 +0200 *Paul Wollner > >* wrote > ---- > > Apologies for the duplicate post, but the initial posting was too large. > > The concerns expressed by TISPA, as well as other concerned parties and > especially by AFRINIC's own admission in the news outlet lexpress.mu, > which is available at https://ibb.co/tmWCk0k, regarding the AFRINIC?s > inability to keep providing its core registry functions due to its > inability to meet its financial requirements. > > I suggest that in order not hold end users, ISPs and any other business's > hostage, for the interest of continue service of AFRINIC?s core registry > service, we should urgently call for NRO fulfil their responsibility as > well as commitment to the global internet to take over AFRINIC?s > registration service for the time being, until litigation is settled some > time later. ( > https://www.nro.net/accountability/rir-accountability/joint-rir-stability-fund/ > ) > > That way, no end user or business will ever impacted however results come > out of litigation. > > Regards > Paul Wollner > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ibeanusielvis at gmail.com Mon Aug 2 14:11:59 2021 From: ibeanusielvis at gmail.com (Ibeanusi Elvis) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 23:11:59 +0900 Subject: [Community-Discuss] ICANN ( NRO ) vs LARUS (NRA) In-Reply-To: <78371DBC-AF42-4D66-AE35-E61238D45AA0@gmail.com> References: <512A3CAD-8AA5-4AF8-A86A-0D9BC52908EF@gmail.com> <78371DBC-AF42-4D66-AE35-E61238D45AA0@gmail.com> Message-ID: Like Lamiaa pointed out the goal still evidently remains the same but the method at which we aim to achieve it is and might be different but securing the continent is a top priority. In addition, let?s stop this naming callings that has been happening on this thread and on other threads and focus on having an educated and learned conversation without violating the CoD. Thanks, Elvis. On Mon, Aug 2, 2021 at 22:58 Mike Silber wrote: > Please leave me out of it > > Noah and I are able to have a civilised conversation and a respectful > disagreement, without third parties trying to stoke some imagined grievance. > > > On 2 Aug 2021, at 13:11, Anthony Ubah wrote: > > +1 @Mike > > Agression and name calling has gradually become the order of the day. > > > On Mon, Aug 2, 2021, 4:44 AM Mike Silber wrote: > >> Hi Noah >> >> Without getting into the content of your mail and without endorsing the >> specific language chosen by Owen: The RIRs are independent and ICANN does >> not in any way direct or control the RIRs. >> >> The RIRs chose to operate within the ICANN framework, however can move >> the NRO / ASO out of ICANN at any time (including moving the contract out >> of PTI as well). >> >> So I would not characterise ICANN as ?puppet? of the NRO - but rather a >> framework within which an independent NRO choses to operate. That may be a >> distinction without a difference - so I am not offended by Owen?s choice of >> words. >> >> Mike >> >> On 2 Aug 2021, at 10:23, Noah wrote: >> >> Owen, >> >> I have some questions for you... >> >> On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 20:43 Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss, < >> community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: >> >>> >>> While people often mistake ICANN for some form of authority, the reality >>> is that for number >>> resources, ICANN is a puppet at the end of the strings pulled by the NRO >>> (which acts in the >>> role of ICANN ASO). >>> >> >> Your association with LARUS has really got you off the rails. >> >> No wonder Larus has created the so called purported organization called >> the *Number Resource Alliance* aka NRA whose website is >> https://www.nra.help/ >> >> Since you claim that ICANN is a puppet of the NRO, and not an authority, >> is that why your LARUS which is linked to Cloud Innovation Ltd created this >> so called *NRA* organisation. >> >> Are IPv4 brokers now forming their own system? Against ICANN and the >> NRO? >> >> I ask because your sentiments that ICANN is a puppet are really wanting. >> >> Cheers, >> Noah >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From geier at geier.ne.tz Mon Aug 2 14:17:16 2021 From: geier at geier.ne.tz (Frank Habicht) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 17:17:16 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] ICANN ( NRO ) vs LARUS (NRA) In-Reply-To: References: <512A3CAD-8AA5-4AF8-A86A-0D9BC52908EF@gmail.com> Message-ID: <375f1c01-a72b-4665-9ba2-fa90e3840dc6@geier.ne.tz> On 02/08/2021 16:48, Lamiaa Chnayti wrote: > So yes, Africa > has always and will always have my support, but not AFRINIC.. Sad to see you go, but well - it is what it is. Frank From abscoco at gmail.com Mon Aug 2 14:40:35 2021 From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain Baya) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 15:40:35 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?_Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registr?= =?utf-8?q?y_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: <77B645D6-93CA-4DF4-B44A-C1D64F0F69DF@consulintel.es> References: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> <77B645D6-93CA-4DF4-B44A-C1D64F0F69DF@consulintel.es> Message-ID: Dear AfriNIC's Community, Le dim. 1 ao?t 2021 ? 10:58 AM, Paul Wollner a ?crit : > > Hello community > Hi Paul, Thanks for your email, brother. ...please, next time, replace community by its plural...unless you test your *globalisation*? > I think I misused the word ?take over? to spike some unfortunate > sentiments. > ...i see! So, you acknowledge to be wrong in your haste? ...please, come down, brother! > Let me try this again: > > In the interest of internet continuity, another RIR > ...i would have expected that the ressource member which caused this concern would have been your first recommended choice :-/ should help AFRINIC (by staff or infrastructure), to perform it?s core > registration service function for the time being, > > > NRA.help | Number Richers Alliance? :-/ > > until all AFRINIC litigation has been sorted to avoid disruption to our > African end users and businesses. > > ...which *African* end users? imho, your real fear seem to be the lost of connectivity of the 90%, out-of-region, customer base of the LIR which sued its parent-RIR and started an *INRs War* against the RFC7020, against the entire Internet Number Registry System, through the NRA.help project. Shalom, --sb. > Regards > Paul > > > > ---- On Thu, 29 Jul 2021 23:38:32 +0200 *Paul Wollner > >* wrote > ---- > > Apologies for the duplicate post, but the initial posting was too large. > > The concerns expressed by TISPA, as well as other concerned parties and > especially by AFRINIC's own admission in the news outlet lexpress.mu, > which is available at https://ibb.co/tmWCk0k, regarding the AFRINIC?s > inability to keep providing its core registry functions due to its > inability to meet its financial requirements. > > I suggest that in order not hold end users, ISPs and any other business's > hostage, for the interest of continue service of AFRINIC?s core registry > service, we should urgently call for NRO fulfil their responsibility as > well as commitment to the global internet to take over AFRINIC?s > registration service for the time being, until litigation is settled some > time later. (https://www.nro.net/accountability/rir- > accountability/joint-rir-stability-fund/) > > That way, no end user or business will ever impacted however results come > out of litigation. > > Regards > Paul Wollner > > -- -- Best Regards ! __ baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]| Subscribe to Mailing List: __ #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|#?Romains15?:33?Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec vous tous! ?#?Amen?!? ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement? ?Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!?(#Psaumes42:2) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eddy at afrinic.net Mon Aug 2 15:02:56 2021 From: eddy at afrinic.net (Eddy Kayihura) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 19:02:56 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Updates References: Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, Please see below a message that was shared with our members. -- Kind Regards Eddy Kayihura M. Chief Executive Officer AFRINIC Ltd. ==== t: +230 403 51 00 | tt: @afrinic | https://www.afrinic.net | youtube.com/afrinicmedia ___________________________ Vision: ?A secure and accessible Internet for sustainable digital growth in Africa? Mission: ?To serve the African Internet community by delivering efficient services in a global multi-stakeholder environment? Values: EPIC (? Excellence ? Passion ? Integrity ? Community Driven) > Begin forwarded message: > > From: Eddy Kayihura > Subject: [members-discuss] AFRINIC Updates > Date: 2 August 2021 at 19:00:13 GMT+4 > To: AfriNIC Discuss > > Signed PGP part > Dear Members, > > Please take note of the video message below. > > https://afrinic.net/role-of-afrinic > > We would like to reassure everyone that despite the ongoing challenges, we are doing the utmost to maintain continuity of our registry services. > > We are hoping for an early determination of the matter although we have no control how long the proceedings may take. > > In case we do not see any positive development by this week, we will provide another update by next Tuesday. > > Kind regards, > > Eddy Kayihura > > CEO, AFRINIC > ??????????. > > Chers membres, > > Veuillez prendre note du message vid?o ci-dessous. > > https://afrinic.net/role-of-afrinic > Nous tenons ? vous rassurer que malgr? les difficult?s actuelles, nous faisons tout notre possible pour maintenir la continuit? de nos services de registre. > > Nous esp?rons une r?solution rapide de l'affaire, bien que nous n'ayons aucun contr?le sur la dur?e de la proc?dure. Au cas o? nous ne verrions pas d'?volution positive cette semaine, nous ferons une nouvelle mise ? jour mardi prochain. > > Bien ? vous, > > Eddy Kayihura > > CEO, AFRINIC > > ???????????????. > > ????? ??????? > > ???? ?????? ????? ??????? ?????. > > https://afrinic.net/role-of-afrinic > ??? ?? ????? ?????? ??? ??? ????? ?? ???????? ???????? ? ????? ???? ????? ????? ?????? ??? ????????? ????? ??????? ?????. > > ???? ?? ?????? ??? ???? ???? ???? ??? ??????? ??? ????? ?? ???? ?? ???? ??????? ??? ????? ???? ?? ???????? ?????????. > > ?? ??? ?? ???? ?? ???? ?????? ????? ??? ??????? ? ?????? ??????? ??? ????? ??? ???????? ??????. > > ???? ???????? > > ???? ???????? > > ???????????????????????????????????????... > > Caros Membros, > > Por favor, tome nota da mensagem de v?deo abaixo. > > https://afrinic.net/role-of-afrinic > Gostar?amos de assegurar a todos que, apesar dos actuais desafios, estamos a fazer o m?ximo para manter a continuidade dos nossos servi?os de registo. > > Esperamos uma r?pida determina??o do assunto, embora n?o tenhamos qualquer controlo sobre o tempo que os procedimentos podem demorar. Caso n?o se verifique qualquer desenvolvimento positivo at? esta semana, forneceremos outra actualiza??o at? ? pr?xima ter?a-feira. > > Cordiais cumprimentos, > > Eddy Kayihura > > CEO, AFRINIC > -- > > Kind Regards > > Eddy Kayihura M. > Chief Executive Officer > AFRINIC Ltd. > ==== > t: +230 403 51 00 | tt: @afrinic | https://www.afrinic.net | youtube.com/afrinicmedia > ___________________________ > > Vision: ?A secure and accessible Internet for sustainable digital growth in Africa? > Mission: ?To serve the African Internet community by delivering efficient services in a global multi-stakeholder environment? > Values: EPIC (? Excellence ? Passion ? Integrity ? Community Driven) > > > ******************************************************************************************************************* > This email and any attachment (s) transmitted with it are confidential. They may also be privileged or otherwise protected by law. They are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email by error please notify the sender immediately by e-mail and delete this e-mail from your system. You are also notified that disclosing, copying, distributing, or taking any action in relation to its contents is strictly prohibited and unlawful. By reading the message and opening any attachment, the recipient accepts full responsibility for taking protective and remedial action about viruses and other defects. > > ******************************************************************************************************************* > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 833 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP URL: From lamiaachnayti at gmail.com Mon Aug 2 15:17:22 2021 From: lamiaachnayti at gmail.com (Lamiaa Chnayti) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 16:17:22 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] ICANN ( NRO ) vs LARUS (NRA) In-Reply-To: <1010403597.1249550.1627913086089@mail.yahoo.com> References: <512A3CAD-8AA5-4AF8-A86A-0D9BC52908EF@gmail.com> <1010403597.1249550.1627913086089@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Oh well Mirriam, I think it?s pretty obvious isn?t it? But I?ll consider this a genuine question from you, so here you go: As an AFRICAN citizen I?ve always been here to discuss the future of the AFRICAN Internet, just like everyone else.. I?ve always been fine with Afrinic, but based on all the recent problems, for everyone?s sake, I believe that things should be taken care of by another RIR. I mean, let?s not kid ourselves, since Ernest?s scandal, Afrinic?s incapability became too blinding to not notice. And what is normal is for me to be here for the community as someone from Africa myself - not for AFRINIC limited the company (which some people want so badly to make it the new norm) Best regards, Lamiaa Le lun. 2 ao?t 2021 ? 15:04, Mirriam a ?crit : > > > On Monday, August 2, 2021, 4:49:26 PM GMT+3, Lamiaa Chnayti < > lamiaachnayti at gmail.com> wrote: > > > >>So yes, Africa has always and will always have my support, but not > AFRINIC.. > > > If that is the case, what are you doing on the AFRNIC mailing lists? > > > Mirriam > > > > > Le lun. 2 ao?t 2021 ? 14:07, Omo Oaiya a ?crit : > > > On Mon, 2 Aug 2021 at 12:14, Anthony Ubah wrote: > > +1 @Mike > > Agression and name calling has gradually become the order of the day. > > > I am not supporting any breach of the CoC, but high time! > > The days of passive Africans and sellouts who stand by and let external > parties purloin resources intended for the continent for whatever > trumped-up reason belong in our past. > > Some of us struggle to keep up and so don't comment as much. Keep up the > tempo Noah! > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > -- > Lamiaa CHNAYTI > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -- Lamiaa CHNAYTI -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lamiaachnayti at gmail.com Mon Aug 2 15:22:40 2021 From: lamiaachnayti at gmail.com (Lamiaa Chnayti) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 16:22:40 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] ICANN ( NRO ) vs LARUS (NRA) In-Reply-To: <375f1c01-a72b-4665-9ba2-fa90e3840dc6@geier.ne.tz> References: <512A3CAD-8AA5-4AF8-A86A-0D9BC52908EF@gmail.com> <375f1c01-a72b-4665-9ba2-fa90e3840dc6@geier.ne.tz> Message-ID: Aww thanks Frank, that?s very nice of you. But don?t be sad, I?m not going anywhere. I?m actually very glad to see that this community still has nice people ! Best regards, Lamiaa Le lun. 2 ao?t 2021 ? 15:17, Frank Habicht a ?crit : > On 02/08/2021 16:48, Lamiaa Chnayti wrote: > > So yes, Africa > > has always and will always have my support, but not AFRINIC.. > > Sad to see you go, but well - it is what it is. > > Frank > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -- Lamiaa CHNAYTI -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From muyiwacaleb at gmail.com Mon Aug 2 15:35:08 2021 From: muyiwacaleb at gmail.com (Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 10:35:08 -0500 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC FELLOWS' SOLIDARITY SUPPORT AND PUBLIC STATEMENT IN SUPPORT OF AFRINIC Message-ID: Dear Internet Community, We, the undersigned, are veteran AFRINIC Fellows who have been privileged to participate in the bottom up multi stakeholder process of the AFRINIC Policy Development Working Group. This bottom up process is the bedrock that provides guidance in the daily running of the AFRINIC operations. The AFRINIC fellowship is a program which provides an opportunity for Africans Individuals with an interest in Internet Governance, ICT Policy and Internet Operations as a whole, to participate in a series of training workshops, open plenary sessions and discussions with the greatest Internet actors in Africa and the world. The program is open to individuals representing Internet Service Providers, Small Organizations, Universities and Media with active involvement in Internet development for the African Region. We have noted with great concern the ongoing legal debacle brought against the AFRINIC which has led to the freeze in the account of AFRINIC and threaten the operations of the not-for-profit organisation that serves the Internet connectivity of the entire African region including the Indian Ocean when it comes to the stability and resilience of the Internet. We believe the legal debacle launched against AFRINIC does not serve the interest of the region and we strongly stand in solidarity and support of the decision of AFRINIC to protect the resources meant for the region and give opportunity for expansion of the Internet to the underserved and unconnected Africans. We strongly believe in the rule of law and believe that justice will be served to a community that has existed in peace before the launch of these attacks that threatens the peaceful co-existence of our community and the global stability of the Internet. In addition, we have taken note of the recent assurances given by the AFRINIC CEO in his recent interviews and Youtube broadcast that the freeze of AFRINIC?s finances will not affect the entire operations of the AFRINIC. In the light of this, we wish to express our solidarity and support to the Board of Directors, CEO, and Members of Staff whose resiliency has kept us all connected to the Internet we deserve. While we show respect and know that we do not hold any legal right within the Mauritius legal and political system as past fellows, we can only urge the judiciary in Mauritius to kindly re-consider unfreezing the account of the AFRINIC as it threatens the global stability and resilience of the entire Internet and by extension the African and Indian Ocean regional internet. Additionally, we wish to emphatically put on record that if the operational capacity and status of AFRINIC is threatened, this means a threat to our collective digital economic prosperity in Africa, the Indian Ocean and beyond. We therefore recommend that, If the legal system of Mauritius will not allow the smooth operations for the stability of the African and Global Internet through the favourable and expedited adjudication of this legal dispute in the Mauritius legal system, we recommend that the Board of Directors consider relocating AFRINIC to a different and more accommodating legal jurisdiction / country in Africa that is favorable for the smooth running of AFRINIC using the business continuity plans and mechanisms in place as fail safes. As former AFRINIC fellows, we support the mission of the AFRINIC to serve the African community by providing professional and efficient management of Internet number resources, supporting Internet technology usage and development, and promoting a participative and multi-stakeholder approach to Internet self-governance. En avant AFRINIC AFRINIC FELLOWS - Caleb Ogundele - Nigeria - Yusif Amadu - Ghana - Daniel K. Nanghaka - Uganda - Afi Edoh - Togo - Ish Sookun - Mauritius - Uffa Modey - Nigeria - Mohammed Bakheet - Vallarie Yiega - Kenya - Moipone Mhlekwa - Lesotho - Luyana Canza Fernando - Angola - Alpha Mubay, Congo DRC - Shadrach Ankrah - Ghana - Keolebogile Rantsetse - Botswana - Eva N. NCho- C?te d?Ivoire - Harimino Rakotondrainibe - Madagascar - Serge-parfait Goma - Congo DRC - Mohamed S. Yousif - Sudan - Yasmine Bilkis Ibrahim - Sierra Leone - Ars?ne Tungali - Congo DRC - Eva N. NCho- C?te d?Ivoire - Mirabel Ngong - Cameroon - Ngassa Sophie - Cameroon - Aisha Saho - The Gambia. - Happy Ayomirwoth Ongi- Uganda - Evelyn Fonkem - Cameroon FRENCH TRANSLATION Ch?re communaut? de l?Internet, Nous, les soussign?s, sommes d'anciens boursiers d'AFRINIC qui avons eu le privil?ge de participer au processus ascendant multipartite du groupe de travail sur l'?laboration des politiques d'AFRINIC. Ce processus ascendant est le fondement de l'orientation du fonctionnement quotidien des op?rations d'AFRINIC. La bourse AFRINIC est un programme qui donne l'occasion aux Africains int?ress?s par la gouvernance de l'Internet, la politique des TIC et les op?rations de l?Internet dans leur ensemble, de participer ? une s?rie d'ateliers de formation, de sessions pl?ni?res ouvertes et de discussions avec les plus grands acteurs de l'Internet en Afrique et dans le monde. Le programme est ouvert aux personnes repr?sentant les fournisseurs de services Internet, les petites organisations, les universit?s et les m?dias qui participent activement au d?veloppement de l'Internet dans la r?gion africaine. Nous avons not? avec une grande inqui?tude la d?b?cle juridique en cours contre l'AFRINIC qui a conduit au gel du compte bancaire de l'AFRINIC et menace les op?rations de l'organisation ? but non lucratif qui sert la connectivit? Internet de toute la r?gion africaine, y compris l'oc?an Indien, lorsqu'il s'agit de la stabilit? et de la r?silience de l'Internet. Nous pensons que la d?b?cle juridique lanc?e contre l'AFRINIC ne sert pas les int?r?ts de la r?gion et nous sommes solidaires et soutenons fermement la d?cision de l'AFRINIC de prot?ger les ressources destin?es ? la r?gion et de donner la possibilit? d'?tendre l'Internet aux Africains mal desservis et non connect?s. Nous croyons fermement en l'?tat de droit et pensons que justice sera rendue ? une communaut? qui existait en paix avant le lancement de ces attaques qui menacent la coexistence pacifique de notre communaut? et la stabilit? globale de l'Internet. En outre, nous avons pris note des r?centes assurances donn?es par le PDG de l'AFRINIC dans ses r?centes interviews et sur Youtube que le gel des finances de l'AFRINIC n'affectera pas l'ensemble des op?rations de l'AFRINIC. A la lumi?re de ce qui pr?c?de, nous souhaitons exprimer notre solidarit? et notre soutien au Conseil d'administration, au PDG et aux membres du personnel dont la r?silience nous a permis de rester connect?s ? l'Internet que nous m?ritons. Tout en faisant preuve de respect et en sachant que nous ne d?tenons aucun droit l?gal au sein du syst?me juridique et politique de l'?le Maurice en tant qu'anciens boursiers, nous ne pouvons que demander instamment au syst?me judiciaire de l'?le Maurice de bien vouloir reconsid?rer le d?blocage du compte bancaire de l'AFRINIC car cet acte menace la stabilit? et la r?silience de l'ensemble de l'Internet et, par extension, de l'Internet r?gional de l'Afrique et de l'oc?an Indien. En outre, nous tenons ? souligner que si la capacit? op?rationnelle et le statut de l'AFRINIC sont menac?s, cela signifie une menace pour notre prosp?rit? ?conomique num?rique collective en Afrique, dans l'oc?an Indien et au-del?. Nous recommandons donc que, si le syst?me juridique de l'?le Maurice ne permet pas le bon d?roulement des op?rations pour la stabilit? de l'Internet africain et mondial par le biais d'un r?glement favorable et rapide de ce litige dans le syst?me juridique de l'?le Maurice, nous recommandons que le Conseil d'administration envisage de relocaliser l'AFRINIC dans une juridiction juridique diff?rente et plus accommodante / un pays en Afrique qui est favorable au bon fonctionnement de l'AFRINIC en utilisant les plans et m?canismes de continuit? des affaires en place comme des s?curit?s. En tant qu'anciens boursiers d'AFRINIC, nous soutenons la mission de l'AFRINIC qui est de servir la communaut? africaine en assurant une gestion professionnelle et efficace des ressources naturelles africaines en assurant une gestion professionnelle et efficace des ressources en num?ros Internet, en soutenant l'utilisation et le d?veloppement des technologies Internet et en promouvant une approche participative et multipartite de l'autonomie de l'Internet. En avant AFRINIC! BOURSIERS AFRINIC - Caleb Ogundele - Nigeria - Yusif Amadu - Ghana - Daniel K. Nanghaka - Uganda - Afi Edoh - Togo - Ish Sookun - Mauritius - Uffa Modey - Nigeria - Mohammed Bakheet - Vallarie Yiega - Kenya - Moipone Mhlekwa - Lesotho - Luyana Canza Fernando - Angola - Alpha Mubay, Congo DRC - Shadrach Ankrah - Ghana - Keolebogile Rantsetse - Botswana - Eva N. NCho- C?te d?Ivoire - Harimino Rakotondrainibe - Madagascar - Serge-parfait Goma - Congo DRC - Mohamed S. Yousif - Sudan - Yasmine Bilkis Ibrahim - Sierra Leone - Ars?ne Tungali - Congo DRC - Eva N. NCho- C?te d?Ivoire - Mirabel Ngong - Cameroon - Ngassa Sophie - Cameroon - Aisha Saho - The Gambia. - Happy Ayomirwoth Ongi- Uganda - Evelyn Fonkem - Cameroon PORTUGESE TRANSLATION Cara Comunidade da Internet, N?s, abaixo-assinados, somos veteranos AFRINIC Fellows que tiveram o privil?gio de participar no processo de multi-intervenientes da base para o topo do Grupo de Trabalho de Desenvolvimento de Pol?ticas AFRINIC. Este processo de baixo para cima ? a base que fornece orienta??o na condu??o di?ria das opera??es de AFRINIC. A bolsa AFRINIC ? um programa que oferece uma oportunidade para os indiv?duos africanos com interesse na Governa??o da Internet, Pol?tica das TIC e Opera??es da Internet como um todo, participarem numa s?rie de workshops de forma??o, sess?es plen?rias abertas e discuss?es com os maiores actores da Internet em ?frica e no mundo. O programa est? aberto a indiv?duos que representam Provedores de Servi?os de Internet, Pequenas Organiza??es, Universidades e Meios de Comunica??o com envolvimento activo no desenvolvimento da Internet para a Regi?o Africana. Not?mos com grande preocupa??o o desastre jur?dico em curso contra a AFRINIC, que levou ao congelamento da conta da AFRINIC e amea?a as opera??es da organiza??o sem fins lucrativos que serve a conectividade Internet de toda a regi?o africana, incluindo o Oceano ?ndico, quando se trata da estabilidade e resili?ncia da Internet. Acreditamos que o desastre jur?dico lan?ado contra a AFRINIC n?o serve os interesses da regi?o e apoiamos firmemente a decis?o da AFRINIC de proteger os recursos destinados ? regi?o e dar oportunidade de expans?o da Internet aos africanos desamparados e sem liga??o. Acreditamos firmemente no Estado de direito e acreditamos que ser? feita justi?a a uma comunidade que j? existia em paz antes do lan?amento destes ataques que amea?am a coexist?ncia pac?fica da nossa comunidade e a estabilidade global da Internet. Al?m disso, tom?mos nota das recentes garantias dadas pelo CEO da AFRINIC nas suas recentes entrevistas e o Youtube transmitiu que o congelamento das finan?as da AFRINIC n?o afectar? a totalidade das opera??es da AFRINIC. ? luz disto, queremos expressar a nossa solidariedade e apoio ao Conselho de Administra??o, CEO, e Membros do Pessoal cuja resili?ncia nos manteve a todos ligados ? Internet que merecemos. Embora mostremos respeito e saibamos que n?o temos qualquer direito legal dentro do sistema jur?dico e pol?tico das Maur?cias como antigos companheiros, s? podemos instar o poder judicial nas Maur?cias a reconsiderar gentilmente o descongelamento do relato da AFRINIC, uma vez que amea?a a estabilidade e a resili?ncia global de toda a Internet e, por extens?o, da Internet regional africana e do Oceano ?ndico. Al?m disso, queremos deixar registado que se a capacidade operacional e o estatuto da AFRINIC forem amea?ados, isto significa uma amea?a ? nossa prosperidade econ?mica digital colectiva em ?frica, no Oceano ?ndico e mais al?m. Portanto, recomendamos que, se o sistema legal das Maur?cias n?o permitir o bom funcionamento da AFRINIC para a estabilidade da Internet Africana e Global atrav?s do julgamento favor?vel e expedito desta disputa legal no sistema legal das Maur?cias, recomendamos que o Conselho de Administra??o considere a relocaliza??o da AFRINIC para uma jurisdi??o / pa?s em ?frica diferente e mais acomodat?cia que seja favor?vel ao bom funcionamento da AFRINIC, utilizando os planos e mecanismos de continuidade de neg?cios em vigor como cofres-fortes. Como antigos colegas da AFRINIC, apoiamos a miss?o da AFRINIC de servir os comunidade, proporcionando uma gest?o profissional e eficiente do n?mero de Internet de recursos, apoiando a utiliza??o e desenvolvimento da tecnologia da Internet, e promovendo um abordagem participativa e multi-stakeholder ? auto-governa??o da Internet. AFRINIC PR?PRIO - Caleb Ogundele - Nigeria - Yusif Amadu - Ghana - Daniel K. Nanghaka - Uganda - Afi Edoh - Togo - Ish Sookun - Mauritius - Uffa Modey - Nigeria - Mohammed Bakheet - Vallarie Yiega - Kenya - Moipone Mhlekwa - Lesotho - Luyana Canza Fernando - Angola - Alpha Mubay, Congo DRC - Shadrach Ankrah - Ghana - Keolebogile Rantsetse - Botswana - Eva N. NCho- C?te d?Ivoire - Harimino Rakotondrainibe - Madagascar - Serge-parfait Goma - Congo DRC - Mohamed S. Yousif - Sudan - Yasmine Bilkis Ibrahim - Sierra Leone - Ars?ne Tungali - Congo DRC - Eva N. NCho- C?te d?Ivoire - Mirabel Ngong - Cameroon - Ngassa Sophie - Cameroon - Aisha Saho - The Gambia. - Happy Ayomirwoth Ongi- Uganda - Evelyn Fonkem - Cameroon -- *Caleb Ogundele* *muyiwacaleb at gmail.com * *234 - 8077377378* *234 - 07030777969* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: AFRINIC FELLOWS PUBLIC STATEMENT.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 675784 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mirriamlauren at yahoo.com Mon Aug 2 16:37:23 2021 From: mirriamlauren at yahoo.com (Mirriam) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 16:37:23 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Community-Discuss] ICANN ( NRO ) vs LARUS (NRA) In-Reply-To: References: <512A3CAD-8AA5-4AF8-A86A-0D9BC52908EF@gmail.com> <1010403597.1249550.1627913086089@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <429404215.1294491.1627922243079@mail.yahoo.com> No it isn't! What is obvious is you claiming to be here as a community member but working so hard to bring down the stability of the same community you claim to belong to. Africa is Afrinic and Afrinic is Africa. A person (Afrinic) who has children (African Internet Ecosystem) will never Perish. ?No matter how beautiful and well crafted a coffin might look, it will not make anyone wish for death?. ~African Proverb Mirriam On Monday, August 2, 2021, 6:17:35 PM GMT+3, Lamiaa Chnayti wrote: Oh well Mirriam, I think it?s pretty obvious isn?t it? But I?ll consider this a genuine question from you, so here you go: As an AFRICAN citizen I?ve always been here to discuss the future of the AFRICAN Internet, just like everyone else.. I?ve always been fine with Afrinic, but based on all the recent problems, for everyone?s ?sake, I believe that things should be taken care of by another RIR.? I mean, let?s not kid ourselves, since Ernest?s scandal, Afrinic?s incapability became too blinding to not notice. And what is normal is for me to be here for the community as someone from Africa myself - not for AFRINIC limited the company (which some people want so badly to make it the new norm) Best regards,Lamiaa Le?lun. 2 ao?t 2021 ? 15:04, Mirriam a ?crit?: On Monday, August 2, 2021, 4:49:26 PM GMT+3, Lamiaa Chnayti wrote: ?>>So yes, Africa has always and will always have my support, but not AFRINIC.. If that is the case, what are you doing on the AFRNIC mailing lists? Mirriam Le?lun. 2 ao?t 2021 ? 14:07, Omo Oaiya a ?crit?: On Mon, 2 Aug 2021 at 12:14, Anthony Ubah wrote: +1 @Mike Agression and name calling has gradually become the order of the day. I am not supporting any breach of the CoC, but high time!?? The days of passive Africans and sellouts who stand by and let external parties purloin resources intended for the continent for whatever trumped-up reason belong in our past.? Some of us struggle to keep up and so don't comment as much.? Keep up the tempo Noah!_______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -- Lamiaa CHNAYTI _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -- Lamiaa CHNAYTI -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Mon Aug 2 17:25:38 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 20:25:38 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC FELLOWS' SOLIDARITY SUPPORT AND PUBLIC STATEMENT IN SUPPORT OF AFRINIC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear AFRINIC Former Fellows, Thank you for the statement of support towards AFRINIC. *En avant AFRINIC!* Cheers, Noah On Mon, Aug 2, 2021 at 6:41 PM Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele < muyiwacaleb at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear Internet Community, > > We, the undersigned, are veteran AFRINIC Fellows who have been privileged > to participate in the bottom up multi stakeholder process of the AFRINIC > Policy Development Working Group. This bottom up process is the bedrock > that provides guidance in the daily running of the AFRINIC operations. > > The AFRINIC fellowship is a program which provides an opportunity for > Africans Individuals with an interest in Internet Governance, ICT Policy > and Internet Operations as a whole, to participate in a series of training > workshops, open plenary sessions and discussions with the greatest Internet > actors in Africa and the world. The program is open to individuals > representing Internet Service Providers, Small Organizations, Universities > and Media with active involvement in Internet development for the African > Region. > > We have noted with great concern the ongoing legal debacle brought against > the AFRINIC which has led to the freeze in the account of AFRINIC and > threaten the operations of the not-for-profit organisation that serves the > Internet connectivity of the entire African region including the Indian > Ocean when it comes to the stability and resilience of the Internet. > > We believe the legal debacle launched against AFRINIC does not serve the > interest of the region and we strongly stand in solidarity and support of > the decision of AFRINIC to protect the resources meant for the region and > give opportunity for expansion of the Internet to the underserved and > unconnected Africans. We strongly believe in the rule of law and believe > that justice will be served to a community that has existed in peace before > the launch of these attacks that threatens the peaceful co-existence of our > community and the global stability of the Internet. > > In addition, we have taken note of the recent assurances given by the > AFRINIC CEO in his recent interviews and Youtube broadcast > that the freeze of > AFRINIC?s finances will not affect the entire operations of the AFRINIC. In > the light of this, we wish to express our solidarity and support to the > Board of Directors, CEO, and Members of Staff whose resiliency has kept us > all connected to the Internet we deserve. > > While we show respect and know that we do not hold any legal right > within the Mauritius legal and political system as past fellows, we can > only urge the judiciary in Mauritius to kindly re-consider unfreezing the > account of the AFRINIC as it threatens the global stability and resilience > of the entire Internet and by extension the African and Indian Ocean > regional internet. > > Additionally, we wish to emphatically put on record that if the > operational capacity and status of AFRINIC is threatened, this means a > threat to our collective digital economic prosperity in Africa, the Indian > Ocean and beyond. > > We therefore recommend that, If the legal system of Mauritius will not > allow the smooth operations for the stability of the African and Global > Internet through the favourable and expedited adjudication of this legal > dispute in the Mauritius legal system, we recommend that the Board of > Directors consider relocating AFRINIC to a different and more accommodating > legal jurisdiction / country in Africa that is favorable for the smooth > running of AFRINIC using the business continuity plans and mechanisms in > place as fail safes. > > As former AFRINIC fellows, we support the mission of the AFRINIC to serve > the African > > community by providing professional and efficient management of Internet > number > > resources, supporting Internet technology usage and development, and > promoting a > > participative and multi-stakeholder approach to Internet self-governance. > > > En avant AFRINIC > > AFRINIC FELLOWS > > - > > Caleb Ogundele - Nigeria > - > > Yusif Amadu - Ghana > - > > Daniel K. Nanghaka - Uganda > - > > Afi Edoh - Togo > - > > Ish Sookun - Mauritius > - > > Uffa Modey - Nigeria > - > > Mohammed Bakheet > - > > Vallarie Yiega - Kenya > - > > Moipone Mhlekwa - Lesotho > - > > Luyana Canza Fernando - Angola > - > > Alpha Mubay, Congo DRC > - > > Shadrach Ankrah - Ghana > - > > Keolebogile Rantsetse - Botswana > - > > Eva N. NCho- C?te d?Ivoire > - > > Harimino Rakotondrainibe - Madagascar > - > > Serge-parfait Goma - Congo DRC > - > > Mohamed S. Yousif - Sudan > - > > Yasmine Bilkis Ibrahim - Sierra Leone > - > > Ars?ne Tungali - Congo DRC > - > > Eva N. NCho- C?te d?Ivoire > - > > Mirabel Ngong - Cameroon > - > > Ngassa Sophie - Cameroon > - > > Aisha Saho - The Gambia. > - > > Happy Ayomirwoth Ongi- Uganda > - > > Evelyn Fonkem - Cameroon > > > > > FRENCH TRANSLATION > > Ch?re communaut? de l?Internet, > > Nous, les soussign?s, sommes d'anciens boursiers d'AFRINIC qui avons eu le > privil?ge de participer au processus ascendant multipartite du groupe de > travail sur l'?laboration des politiques d'AFRINIC. Ce processus ascendant > est le fondement de l'orientation du fonctionnement quotidien des > op?rations d'AFRINIC. > > La bourse AFRINIC est un programme qui donne l'occasion aux Africains > int?ress?s par la gouvernance de l'Internet, la politique des TIC et les > op?rations de l?Internet dans leur ensemble, de participer ? une s?rie > d'ateliers de formation, de sessions pl?ni?res ouvertes et de discussions > avec les plus grands acteurs de l'Internet en Afrique et dans le monde. Le > programme est ouvert aux personnes repr?sentant les fournisseurs de > services Internet, les petites organisations, les universit?s et les m?dias > qui participent activement au d?veloppement de l'Internet dans la r?gion > africaine. > > Nous avons not? avec une grande inqui?tude la d?b?cle juridique en cours > contre l'AFRINIC qui a conduit au gel du compte bancaire de l'AFRINIC et > menace les op?rations de l'organisation ? but non lucratif qui sert la > connectivit? Internet de toute la r?gion africaine, y compris l'oc?an > Indien, lorsqu'il s'agit de la stabilit? et de la r?silience de l'Internet. > > Nous pensons que la d?b?cle juridique lanc?e contre l'AFRINIC ne sert pas > les int?r?ts de la r?gion et nous sommes solidaires et soutenons fermement > la d?cision de l'AFRINIC de prot?ger les ressources destin?es ? la r?gion > et de donner la possibilit? d'?tendre l'Internet aux Africains mal > desservis et non connect?s. Nous croyons fermement en l'?tat de droit et > pensons que justice sera rendue ? une communaut? qui existait en paix avant > le lancement de ces attaques qui menacent la coexistence pacifique de notre > communaut? et la stabilit? globale de l'Internet. > > En outre, nous avons pris note des r?centes assurances donn?es par le PDG > de l'AFRINIC dans ses r?centes interviews et sur Youtube que le gel des > finances de l'AFRINIC n'affectera pas l'ensemble des op?rations de > l'AFRINIC. A la lumi?re de ce qui pr?c?de, nous souhaitons exprimer notre > solidarit? et notre soutien au Conseil d'administration, au PDG et aux > membres du personnel dont la r?silience nous a permis de rester connect?s ? > l'Internet que nous m?ritons. > > Tout en faisant preuve de respect et en sachant que nous ne d?tenons aucun > droit l?gal au sein du syst?me juridique et politique de l'?le Maurice en > tant qu'anciens boursiers, nous ne pouvons que demander instamment au > syst?me judiciaire de l'?le Maurice de bien vouloir reconsid?rer le > d?blocage du compte bancaire de l'AFRINIC car cet acte menace la stabilit? > et la r?silience de l'ensemble de l'Internet et, par extension, de > l'Internet r?gional de l'Afrique et de l'oc?an Indien. > > En outre, nous tenons ? souligner que si la capacit? op?rationnelle et le > statut de l'AFRINIC sont menac?s, cela signifie une menace pour notre > prosp?rit? ?conomique num?rique collective en Afrique, dans l'oc?an Indien > et au-del?. > > Nous recommandons donc que, si le syst?me juridique de l'?le Maurice ne > permet pas le bon d?roulement des op?rations pour la stabilit? de > l'Internet africain et mondial par le biais d'un r?glement favorable et > rapide de ce litige dans le syst?me juridique de l'?le Maurice, nous > recommandons que le Conseil d'administration envisage de relocaliser > l'AFRINIC dans une juridiction juridique diff?rente et plus accommodante / > un pays en Afrique qui est favorable au bon fonctionnement de l'AFRINIC en > utilisant les plans et m?canismes de continuit? des affaires en place comme > des s?curit?s. > > En tant qu'anciens boursiers d'AFRINIC, nous soutenons la mission de > l'AFRINIC qui est de servir la communaut? africaine en assurant une gestion > professionnelle et efficace des ressources naturelles africaines en > assurant une gestion professionnelle et efficace des ressources en num?ros > Internet, en soutenant l'utilisation et le d?veloppement des technologies > Internet et en promouvant une approche participative et multipartite de > l'autonomie de l'Internet. > > En avant AFRINIC! > > BOURSIERS AFRINIC > > - > > Caleb Ogundele - Nigeria > - > > Yusif Amadu - Ghana > - > > Daniel K. Nanghaka - Uganda > - > > Afi Edoh - Togo > - > > Ish Sookun - Mauritius > - > > Uffa Modey - Nigeria > - > > Mohammed Bakheet > - > > Vallarie Yiega - Kenya > - > > Moipone Mhlekwa - Lesotho > - > > Luyana Canza Fernando - Angola > - > > Alpha Mubay, Congo DRC > - > > Shadrach Ankrah - Ghana > - > > Keolebogile Rantsetse - Botswana > - > > Eva N. NCho- C?te d?Ivoire > - > > Harimino Rakotondrainibe - Madagascar > - > > Serge-parfait Goma - Congo DRC > - > > Mohamed S. Yousif - Sudan > - > > Yasmine Bilkis Ibrahim - Sierra Leone > - > > Ars?ne Tungali - Congo DRC > - > > Eva N. NCho- C?te d?Ivoire > - > > Mirabel Ngong - Cameroon > - > > Ngassa Sophie - Cameroon > - > > Aisha Saho - The Gambia. > - > > Happy Ayomirwoth Ongi- Uganda > - > > Evelyn Fonkem - Cameroon > > > > > > PORTUGESE TRANSLATION > > Cara Comunidade da Internet, > > N?s, abaixo-assinados, somos veteranos AFRINIC Fellows que tiveram o > privil?gio de participar no processo de multi-intervenientes da base para o > topo do Grupo de Trabalho de Desenvolvimento de Pol?ticas AFRINIC. Este > processo de baixo para cima ? a base que fornece orienta??o na condu??o > di?ria das opera??es de AFRINIC. > > A bolsa AFRINIC ? um programa que oferece uma oportunidade para os > indiv?duos africanos com interesse na Governa??o da Internet, Pol?tica das > TIC e Opera??es da Internet como um todo, participarem numa s?rie de > workshops de forma??o, sess?es plen?rias abertas e discuss?es com os > maiores actores da Internet em ?frica e no mundo. O programa est? aberto a > indiv?duos que representam Provedores de Servi?os de Internet, Pequenas > Organiza??es, Universidades e Meios de Comunica??o com envolvimento activo > no desenvolvimento da Internet para a Regi?o Africana. > > Not?mos com grande preocupa??o o desastre jur?dico em curso contra a > AFRINIC, que levou ao congelamento da conta da AFRINIC e amea?a as > opera??es da organiza??o sem fins lucrativos que serve a conectividade > Internet de toda a regi?o africana, incluindo o Oceano ?ndico, quando se > trata da estabilidade e resili?ncia da Internet. > > Acreditamos que o desastre jur?dico lan?ado contra a AFRINIC n?o serve os > interesses da regi?o e apoiamos firmemente a decis?o da AFRINIC de proteger > os recursos destinados ? regi?o e dar oportunidade de expans?o da Internet > aos africanos desamparados e sem liga??o. Acreditamos firmemente no Estado > de direito e acreditamos que ser? feita justi?a a uma comunidade que j? > existia em paz antes do lan?amento destes ataques que amea?am a > coexist?ncia pac?fica da nossa comunidade e a estabilidade global da > Internet. > > Al?m disso, tom?mos nota das recentes garantias dadas pelo CEO da AFRINIC > nas suas recentes entrevistas e o Youtube transmitiu que o congelamento das > finan?as da AFRINIC n?o afectar? a totalidade das opera??es da AFRINIC. ? > luz disto, queremos expressar a nossa solidariedade e apoio ao Conselho de > Administra??o, CEO, e Membros do Pessoal cuja resili?ncia nos manteve a > todos ligados ? Internet que merecemos. > > Embora mostremos respeito e saibamos que n?o temos qualquer direito legal > dentro do sistema jur?dico e pol?tico das Maur?cias como antigos > companheiros, s? podemos instar o poder judicial nas Maur?cias a > reconsiderar gentilmente o descongelamento do relato da AFRINIC, uma vez > que amea?a a estabilidade e a resili?ncia global de toda a Internet e, por > extens?o, da Internet regional africana e do Oceano ?ndico. > > Al?m disso, queremos deixar registado que se a capacidade operacional e o > estatuto da AFRINIC forem amea?ados, isto significa uma amea?a ? nossa > prosperidade econ?mica digital colectiva em ?frica, no Oceano ?ndico e mais > al?m. > > Portanto, recomendamos que, se o sistema legal das Maur?cias n?o permitir > o bom funcionamento da AFRINIC para a estabilidade da Internet Africana e > Global atrav?s do julgamento favor?vel e expedito desta disputa legal no > sistema legal das Maur?cias, recomendamos que o Conselho de Administra??o > considere a relocaliza??o da AFRINIC para uma jurisdi??o / pa?s em ?frica > diferente e mais acomodat?cia que seja favor?vel ao bom funcionamento da > AFRINIC, utilizando os planos e mecanismos de continuidade de neg?cios em > vigor como cofres-fortes. > > Como antigos colegas da AFRINIC, apoiamos a miss?o da AFRINIC de servir os > > comunidade, proporcionando uma gest?o profissional e eficiente do n?mero > de Internet > > de recursos, apoiando a utiliza??o e desenvolvimento da tecnologia da > Internet, e promovendo um > > abordagem participativa e multi-stakeholder ? auto-governa??o da Internet. > > > AFRINIC PR?PRIO > > > - > > Caleb Ogundele - Nigeria > - > > Yusif Amadu - Ghana > - > > Daniel K. Nanghaka - Uganda > - > > Afi Edoh - Togo > - > > Ish Sookun - Mauritius > - > > Uffa Modey - Nigeria > - > > Mohammed Bakheet > - > > Vallarie Yiega - Kenya > - > > Moipone Mhlekwa - Lesotho > - > > Luyana Canza Fernando - Angola > - > > Alpha Mubay, Congo DRC > - > > Shadrach Ankrah - Ghana > - > > Keolebogile Rantsetse - Botswana > - > > Eva N. NCho- C?te d?Ivoire > - > > Harimino Rakotondrainibe - Madagascar > - > > Serge-parfait Goma - Congo DRC > - > > Mohamed S. Yousif - Sudan > - > > Yasmine Bilkis Ibrahim - Sierra Leone > - > > Ars?ne Tungali - Congo DRC > - > > Eva N. NCho- C?te d?Ivoire > - > > Mirabel Ngong - Cameroon > - > > Ngassa Sophie - Cameroon > - > > Aisha Saho - The Gambia. > - > > Happy Ayomirwoth Ongi- Uganda > - > > Evelyn Fonkem - Cameroon > > > > -- > *Caleb Ogundele* > *muyiwacaleb at gmail.com * > *234 - 8077377378* > *234 - 07030777969* > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evayedidja at gmail.com Mon Aug 2 17:32:26 2021 From: evayedidja at gmail.com (Gmail - Eva Yedidja) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 17:32:26 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?RE=C2=A0=3A__Call_for_AFRINIC?= =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=99s_registry_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> , Message-ID: <27BCAA98-2A59-4243-91FC-7D41B8F2327C@hxcore.ol> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 01EF6222EA0A40319FD1090DD49F3F4C.png Type: image/png Size: 160 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lamiaachnayti at gmail.com Mon Aug 2 17:59:32 2021 From: lamiaachnayti at gmail.com (Lamiaa Chnayti) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 18:59:32 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] ICANN ( NRO ) vs LARUS (NRA) In-Reply-To: <429404215.1294491.1627922243079@mail.yahoo.com> References: <512A3CAD-8AA5-4AF8-A86A-0D9BC52908EF@gmail.com> <1010403597.1249550.1627913086089@mail.yahoo.com> <429404215.1294491.1627922243079@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: 1- I?m not claiming to be a community member. I am a community member, whether you like it or not.. 2- Again, what stability? I?m just taking part of a discussion. If you really perceive my words and opinion as something that can bring down a whole community, then I must say I am impressed. (But hey seriously, I once again assure you that I am just expressing my thoughts. I honestly don?t understand why people get offended when they?re free to disagree and move on.) 3- Africa is better off without Afrinic?s problems. Le lun. 2 ao?t 2021 ? 17:37, Mirriam a ?crit : > > No it isn't! What is obvious is you claiming to be here as a community > member but working so hard to bring down the stability of the same > community you claim to belong to. > > Africa is Afrinic and Afrinic is Africa. > > A person (Afrinic) who has children (African Internet Ecosystem) will > never Perish. > > ?No matter how beautiful and well crafted a coffin might look, it will not > make anyone wish for death?. ~African Proverb > > Mirriam > > On Monday, August 2, 2021, 6:17:35 PM GMT+3, Lamiaa Chnayti < > lamiaachnayti at gmail.com> wrote: > > > Oh well Mirriam, I think it?s pretty obvious isn?t it? But I?ll consider > this a genuine question from you, so here you go: > > As an AFRICAN citizen I?ve always been here to discuss the future of the > AFRICAN Internet, just like everyone else.. I?ve always been fine with > Afrinic, but based on all the recent problems, for everyone?s sake, I > believe that things should be taken care of by another RIR. > > I mean, let?s not kid ourselves, since Ernest?s scandal, Afrinic?s > incapability became too blinding to not notice. And what is normal is for > me to be here for the community as someone from Africa myself - not for > AFRINIC limited the company (which some people want so badly to make it the > new norm) > > Best regards, > Lamiaa > > Le lun. 2 ao?t 2021 ? 15:04, Mirriam a ?crit : > > > > On Monday, August 2, 2021, 4:49:26 PM GMT+3, Lamiaa Chnayti < > lamiaachnayti at gmail.com> wrote: > > > >>So yes, Africa has always and will always have my support, but not > AFRINIC.. > > > If that is the case, what are you doing on the AFRNIC mailing lists? > > > Mirriam > > > > > Le lun. 2 ao?t 2021 ? 14:07, Omo Oaiya a ?crit : > > > On Mon, 2 Aug 2021 at 12:14, Anthony Ubah wrote: > > +1 @Mike > > Agression and name calling has gradually become the order of the day. > > > I am not supporting any breach of the CoC, but high time! > > The days of passive Africans and sellouts who stand by and let external > parties purloin resources intended for the continent for whatever > trumped-up reason belong in our past. > > Some of us struggle to keep up and so don't comment as much. Keep up the > tempo Noah! > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > -- > Lamiaa CHNAYTI > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > -- > Lamiaa CHNAYTI > > -- Lamiaa CHNAYTI -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Mon Aug 2 18:37:15 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 21:37:15 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Resource Transfer Policy Proposal Is Under Appeals In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Oga Antony, To be honest, I am obsessed with building real networks and systems on the AFRICAN soil because I know the impact that such communication infrastructure have on our people and the digital transformation of Africa. That is my obsessions. Producing evidence here is immaterial, as such, I shall keep the evidence so tight for presentation before the Hon.Judge in chamber in defence of my claims. Remember, I will then need to prove beyond reasonable doubt that what I stated was based on factual evidence and with (remote) witnesses. Its not wise for a soon-to-be defendant to share evidence with a potential plaintiff. That is how we shall role..... Cheers Noah On Mon, Aug 2, 2021 at 2:44 PM Anthony Ubah wrote: > Hello Noah, > > I demand you produce this email, and all evidence surrounding this claim. > Your obsession has really come to the edge at this time. > You delusion of grandeur constantly pushes you towards aggression and > personal attacks while responding to 'every single post' on every > mailinglist. Please note that libel has consequences. > > > Regards, > > Anthony > > On Mon, Aug 2, 2021, 2:25 AM Noah wrote: > >> >> >> On Mon, 2 Aug 2021, 08:53 Brian Sowers, wrote: >> >>> The transfer policy makes sense. >> >> >> Not the Larus sponsored RTP which is under PDWG appeal. We got an email >> from a reliable source about the genesis of the Antony/Taiwo resource >> transfer policy so I know the motive which is now more clear in light of >> recent events. >> >> Ratify the existing consensus Resource Transfer Policy. >> >> >> I refer you to the below PDWG dispute. >> >> The submitted appeals against that resource transfer proposal remain open >> pending determination by an Appeal Committee. >> >> https://afrinic.net/policy/appeal-committee?lang=en#appeals >> >> *1st pending appeal against DPP *AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT04 (Resource >> Transfer Policy) >> >> https://afrinic.net/ast/pdf/policy/appeal-consensus-ressource-transfer-policy-updated-20102020.pdf >> >> *2nd pending appeal against DPP *AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT04 (Resource >> Transfer Policy) >> >> https://afrinic.net/ast/pdf/policy/afrinic-appeal-resource-transfer-policy. >> >> pdf >> >> The PDP process was not followed and I welcome you to review both appeal >> documents. >> >> Cheers, >> Noah >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Mon Aug 2 19:42:59 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 22:42:59 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Angola ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments. In-Reply-To: <004601d787c3$c2fa6040$48ef20c0$@aapsi.og.ao> References: <004601d787c3$c2fa6040$48ef20c0$@aapsi.og.ao> Message-ID: Dear Silvio, Thank you for sharing the public statement of support from the Angola Internet services providers association and that of the 53 AFRINIC resource members across Angola who are available for any necessary support. The same sentiment is shared to this end. Cheers Noah On Mon, 2 Aug 2021, 22:24 AAPSI, wrote: > Please > > Find attached our Support Letter to AFRINIC. > > > https://www.aapsi.og.ao/noticia/angola-ispa-statement-on-recent-afrinic-developments > > > > Yours sincerely > > > > > > Silvio Almada > > Presidente de Direc??o > > Telefone: (+244) 924671434 > > http://www.aapsi.og.ao > > Luanda - Rep?blica de Angola > > [image: Associa??o Angolana de Internet - AAI_2020-New02] > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Members-Discuss mailing list > Members-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 20090 bytes Desc: not available URL: From owen at delong.com Mon Aug 2 20:12:00 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 13:12:00 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] ICANN ( NRO ) vs LARUS (NRA) In-Reply-To: <512A3CAD-8AA5-4AF8-A86A-0D9BC52908EF@gmail.com> References: <512A3CAD-8AA5-4AF8-A86A-0D9BC52908EF@gmail.com> Message-ID: Mike, that?s fair, but that framework is also set up such that icann performs its functions related to the ASO entirely under policies and dirrctives issued to it by the NRO/ASO (although formally ratified by the ICANN board), and that?s why I used the term puppet. Owen > On Aug 2, 2021, at 01:42, Mike Silber wrote: > > ?Hi Noah > > Without getting into the content of your mail and without endorsing the specific language chosen by Owen: The RIRs are independent and ICANN does not in any way direct or control the RIRs. > > The RIRs chose to operate within the ICANN framework, however can move the NRO / ASO out of ICANN at any time (including moving the contract out of PTI as well). > > So I would not characterise ICANN as ?puppet? of the NRO - but rather a framework within which an independent NRO choses to operate. That may be a distinction without a difference - so I am not offended by Owen?s choice of words. > > Mike > >> On 2 Aug 2021, at 10:23, Noah wrote: >> >> Owen, >> >> I have some questions for you... >> >>> On Sun, 1 Aug 2021, 20:43 Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss, wrote: >>> >>> While people often mistake ICANN for some form of authority, the reality is that for number >>> resources, ICANN is a puppet at the end of the strings pulled by the NRO (which acts in the >>> role of ICANN ASO). >> >> >> Your association with LARUS has really got you off the rails. >> >> No wonder Larus has created the so called purported organization called the *Number Resource Alliance* aka NRA whose website is https://www.nra.help/ >> >> Since you claim that ICANN is a puppet of the NRO, and not an authority, is that why your LARUS which is linked to Cloud Innovation Ltd created this so called *NRA* organisation. >> >> Are IPv4 brokers now forming their own system? Against ICANN and the NRO? >> >> I ask because your sentiments that ICANN is a puppet are really wanting. >> >> Cheers, >> Noah >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sienqle at gmail.com Mon Aug 2 20:45:07 2021 From: sienqle at gmail.com (sienqle at gmail.com) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 22:45:07 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Resource Transfer Policy Proposal Is Under Appeals In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <04A9A443-638C-472B-B141-28BBB83884D4@gmail.com> Hi Noah , I am not sure if maybe we are using the same dictionary for ?building? , well otherwise it seems like you are using a different one, surely it extends destruction, instead of construction . Your obsession with LARUS makes you argue everyone whom you believe is associate with LARUS, I mean it surely pushes you to even overlook the most important matters at hands . You don?t seem care much about the improvement and communication of AFRICA . Well if that was the case you?d be obsessed with what is best for African communication infrastructure, instead of always looking for someone to build your argument around . I am convinced you really don?t care about this community , just even the future of AFRICAN communication. Regards, Thizwilondi Sent from my iPhone > On 02 Aug 2021, at 20:40, Noah wrote: > ? > Oga Antony, > > To be honest, I am obsessed with building real networks and systems on the AFRICAN soil because I know the impact that such communication infrastructure have on our people and the digital transformation of Africa. That is my obsessions. > > Producing evidence here is immaterial, as such, I shall keep the evidence so tight for presentation before the Hon.Judge in chamber in defence of my claims. > > Remember, I will then need to prove beyond reasonable doubt that what I stated was based on factual evidence and with (remote) witnesses. > > Its not wise for a soon-to-be defendant to share evidence with a potential plaintiff. > > That is how we shall role..... > > Cheers > Noah > > On Mon, Aug 2, 2021 at 2:44 PM Anthony Ubah wrote: >> Hello Noah, >> >> I demand you produce this email, and all evidence surrounding this claim. >> Your obsession has really come to the edge at this time. >> You delusion of grandeur constantly pushes you towards aggression and personal attacks while responding to 'every single post' on every mailinglist. Please note that libel has consequences. >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Anthony >> >> On Mon, Aug 2, 2021, 2:25 AM Noah wrote: >>> >>> >>> On Mon, 2 Aug 2021, 08:53 Brian Sowers, wrote: >>>> The transfer policy makes sense. >>> >>> >>> Not the Larus sponsored RTP which is under PDWG appeal. We got an email from a reliable source about the genesis of the Antony/Taiwo resource transfer policy so I know the motive which is now more clear in light of recent events. >>> >>>> Ratify the existing consensus Resource Transfer Policy. >>> >>> >>> I refer you to the below PDWG dispute. >>> >>> The submitted appeals against that resource transfer proposal remain open pending determination by an Appeal Committee. >>> >>> https://afrinic.net/policy/appeal-committee?lang=en#appeals >>> >>> 1st pending appeal against DPP AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT04 (Resource Transfer Policy) >>> https://afrinic.net/ast/pdf/policy/appeal-consensus-ressource-transfer-policy-updated-20102020.pdf >>> >>> 2nd pending appeal against DPP AFPUB-2019-V4-003-DRAFT04 (Resource Transfer Policy) >>> https://afrinic.net/ast/pdf/policy/afrinic-appeal-resource-transfer-policy.pdf >>> >>> The PDP process was not followed and I welcome you to review both appeal documents. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Noah >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Community-Discuss mailing list >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Mon Aug 2 21:00:39 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2021 00:00:39 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus In-Reply-To: <66844.1627875963@segfault.tristatelogic.com> References: <66844.1627875963@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 2, 2021 at 6:52 AM Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: > In message 1yay4Up7tPJGzQ at mail.gmail.com> > Lamiaa Chnayti wrote: > > >Attention Noah: I take note of your constant obsession with Larus... > > Please take note of mine also. > > Larus *is* Cloud Innovation and vise versa. To deny that is to deny simple > reality. (Please google for the Japanese word "keiretsu".) > I took the liberty to ask Google. And ..... "A keiretsu is a set of companies with interlocking business relationships and shareholdings. "" This is exactly what Cloud Innovation + LARUS Limited + LARUS Foundation + NRA.HELP is. I take note that the LARUS Foundation is heavily involved with the AFRINIC PDP for those who may not be aware. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg/view > Like Noah and a lot of other people, I also am "obsessed" with the entire > Cloud Innovation / Larus keiretsu at the moment. Why should we not be? > The organization is threatening to bankrupt AFRINIC with a $1.8 billion > dollar lawsuit... That lawsuit is basically computed as follows. Lu got allocated over 6 million IPv4 addresses. Since he believes IPv4 is Gold worth 30USD each. You basically take the USD30 x 6,000,000 = *180,000,000 * > a lawsuit that I have already demonstrated here has no > merit. And is orchestrated to frustrate AFRINIC. > The entire umbrella organization and ownership structure is therefore > a proper, reasonable, and ongoing focus of concern for every participant > on this mailing list. > And the focus of the AFRICAN Internet community so to speak. Cheers, Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Mon Aug 2 21:05:37 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2021 00:05:37 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Resource Transfer Policy Proposal Is Under Appeals In-Reply-To: <04A9A443-638C-472B-B141-28BBB83884D4@gmail.com> References: <04A9A443-638C-472B-B141-28BBB83884D4@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 2, 2021 at 11:45 PM wrote: > You don?t seem care much about the improvement and communication of AFRICA > . > Your Ignorance is excused. Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From abscoco at gmail.com Mon Aug 2 22:25:38 2021 From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain Baya) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 23:25:38 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?_Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registr?= =?utf-8?q?y_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> <77B645D6-93CA-4DF4-B44A-C1D64F0F69DF@consulintel.es> Message-ID: Dear AfriNIC's Community, Le lundi 2 ao?t 2021, Randy Bush a ?crit : > >> until all AFRINIC litigation has been sorted to avoid disruption to > >> our African end users and businesses. > > > > ...which *African* end users? imho, your real fear seem to be the lost > > of connectivity of the 90%, out-of-region, customer base of the LIR > > which sued its parent-RIR and started an *INRs War* against the > > RFC7020, against the entire Internet Number Registry System, through > > the NRA.help project. > > i think they hired trump and giuliani to lie and escalate. their > problem is that they are lying and trying to escalate to an audience of > internet operators who have decades of experience with a pretty stable > system (until they illegally ripped off a lot of address space and got > caught). > > as with trump, ignore the lies and escalation. it is just designed to > create doubt and confusion. > > ...well noted, with thanks, Randy :-) Shalom, --sb. > randy > -- -- Best Regards ! __ baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]| Subscribe to Mailing List: __ #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|#?Romains15?:33?Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec vous tous! ?#?Amen?!? ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement? ?Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!?(#Psaumes42:2) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rfg at tristatelogic.com Mon Aug 2 23:39:49 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2021 16:39:49 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?iso8859-7?q?=5Bripe-list=5D__Call_for_AFRIN?= =?iso8859-7?q?IC=A2s_registry_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <70969.1627947589@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In message , Randy Bush ? wrote: >i think they hired trump and giuliani to lie and escalate. their >problem is that they are lying and trying to escalate to an audience of >internet operators who have decades of experience with a pretty stable >system It has taken quite some considerable period of time, but I do believe that we have finally located something that Rady Bush and I actually agree on. >(until they illegally ripped off a lot of address space and got >caught). Owing to my personal propensity to avoid inflammatory assertions which might incur the potential for some personally directed legal actions on the basis of defamation, I shall not associate myself with this additional parenthetical remark on the part of Randy Bush. I will say only that a significant number of valuable IPv4 addresses appear to have been effectively "liberated" from the AFRINIC region for use elsewhere, and primarily in the Far East, and even more specifically by a number of relatively youthful legal entities in Hong Kong. Regards, rfg From hjul.paul at gmail.com Tue Aug 3 01:25:47 2021 From: hjul.paul at gmail.com (Paul Hjul) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2021 03:25:47 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Correction to my previous email Message-ID: I am going to be replying thematically rather than ad seriatim. Apologies for the delay I've unfortunately been remarkably busy the last few days and keeping up to speed with other posts as they flood things keeps pushing back wrapping up a response. Quick disclaimer IANAL and styles in Gmail seems more borked than I'd like and I am not going to align font sizes etc ... I'll be blunt. That is utter rubbish. AFRINIC did the Right Thing by > reclaiming blocks of IP addresses which had been -provably- stolen from > its free pool. Two of those thieving companies sued, apparently based > on nothing other than bogus disinformation that they themselves had > manufactured out of their... well... out of thin air. Nothing AFRINIC > did in either of those two cases consitutes "crafting an environment > favouring a litigious approach". That is an utterly false, disingenuous, > and slanderous claim with no basis in fact and I encourage yoy to retract > it. I think you are missing the boat and conflating issues - put differently you are falling for the distraction afoot. My personal wish and desire would be to see Ernest hung, drawn and quartered and a similar fate to his closest collaborators and confederates in the form of (to borrow from Not the 9 o'clock News [ https://youtu.be/zhstRrZzaso]) cutting off their goolies. I thought I had expressed my disdain for the tolerance of his criminality and culture of impunity that has dogged Afrinic before, but let me be emphatically clear the anger I feel towards the individuals who have done so much damage to the Internet on this continent from positions of organizational authority is visceral. We are however a rule of law and human rights community and so 25 years imprisonment is probably what should be advanced as the desired outcome for various criminals. What is galling is the extent to which collaborators and confederates of the daylight robbery continue to infest Afrinic discussions with impunity - some of the worst offenders of course "stay in the shadows" and let several useful idiots wrangle about on their behalf. We must also not tolerate "collateral damage" in a quest to hold criminals accountable. More heinous crime doesn't warrant undermining third parties. A point which I will get back to. That criminal activities have taken place create an opportunity for disputes and legal wrangling. Accepting that thieving companies are trying to make litigation to stall accountability from whole cloth does not translate into saying that due process for both criminals and third parties must be abandoned. Frivolous litigation risk always exists but it is manageable and as long as the organization itself stays on the straight and narrow. It is the refusal to do this and to end up with the CEO having to make an undertaking to the court which isn't acted on for several hours that really winds me up. What crafts an environment favouring a litigious approach is the following: - Afrinic's legal advisors telling members that if they are unhappy to sue (there was a wonderfully colourful description of this some time back in one the mailing lists by I believe Andrew Alston but I am battling to locate same at present). In my own dealings with Afrinic it is quite clear that while the CEO is certainly appreciative of the importance of reasonableness in engagement some of the staff fully subscribe to an ethos of kragdadigheid. There is a culture of secrecy and fear and I am quite sure that it is frankly a horrible place to work. - Neglecting to include dispute resolution clauses in the RSA. This really cannot be overstated. If you aren't altogether satisfied with the legal system in Mauritius then ensure that your commercial arrangements are built to resolve disputes outside of resorting to the country's legal system. There seems to be a nonsensical desire by some to relocate Afrinic from Mauritius into another African jurisdiction other than South Africa. Well Namibia would be a credible jurisdiction but undoubtedly what is really desired is to play location hopscotch until a given jurisdiction allows the organization to behave as a law unto itself. I cannot imagine that any legal representatives in proceedings directed against the organization will miss the opportunity to point out to the courts that the organization has passed measures to enable it to pack up and go. This is pretty useful ammunition in convincing a court to restrain in country assets. - Acting in a manner in which a reasonable court could conclude that the organization did not afford natural justice. - Invoking a termination to a contract when this act could represent a breach (be cautious around repudiation) - a particularly relevant point in the Cloud Innovation fiasco. So your assertion > So you are in favor of unilateral disarmament on the part of AFRINIC? > You want them to go cap in hand to all three of the parties that are > current suing them and beg for a negotiated settlement in each case? > Maybe we should make you the next U.S. ambassador to Afghanistan. is ludicrous. Where have I proposed "disarming" Afrinic? I've proposed that the organization equip itself properly to deal with its issues and that it not do dumb things that will invite adverse legal action. To use your analogy I am arguing that Afrinic moves away from the munitions depot which is on fire and that it be very careful in its care of its munitions. Of course I would advise somebody with a propensity to shoot themselves in the foot to rather be disarmed than to have a deadly weapon. What I've been saying is don't pick a fight which you will loose and that if you are going shoot at a tiger don't miss. Afrinic fired off a shot at CI in terminating their membership, I don't see why anybody wants to blame the tiger for charging at the less than able rifleman. It has been true ever since Hadrian that strength is needed to secure peace, but waging an unwinnable war without tactical advantage is certainly not a path to peace. I fear the next US ambassador to Afghanistan will have a remarkably hard time rebuilding trust in the strength of the United States which is so necessary to preserve and promote peace - of course the fact that US diplomats to all but totalitarian states have to deal with the great weakening under cadet bonespurs is another discussion which is only relevant in so far as the fact that having the means by which to wage figurative war with adversaries like the ability to wage actual war with adversaries isn't helped when your strength is matched by your folly. Having a weapon that you don't know how to use makes the weapon potentially useless, having a weapon that you can hurt yourself with is generally a bad thing. Repudiation of a contract (and repudiatory breach) is a very powerful weapon. Now there are times when either as a matter of principle or pragmatism you invite or embark on litigation or the like but this doesn't mean being monumentally stupid in the process. The best thing to do when you are inviting litigation is to be ready to navigate the process to align with your needs and objectives. Unfortunately it seems that at present much of the community is very happy having protracted, unending and stalled litigation around the heist because it forms an excuse to do nothing but this section of the community most certainly doesn't represent the legitimate interests of members as a whole. But you know what? Military powers seek a negotiated settlement whenever practicable. The United States negotiated with the Taliban for almost a month before going to war in October 2001. The argument that a party who is responsible with move towards a negotiated, mediated or arbitrated resolution rather risk getting its ass kicked is hardly the same thing as arguing for disarmament. As a non-US national or citizen I am hardly qualified to be the next US ambassador to Afghanistan but whoever that person is is unlikely to be trying to drag the US into military or legal action and will be required to undertake efforts to negotiate principled outcomes rather than do anything monumentally stupid. So in respect of: > I might as well speculate that there are just oodles and oodles of people > and companies lining up, as we speak, to sue -you-. (How do we know > there aren't? Can you prove that there aren't any such?) I've been in the position of responsibility for organizations for which adverse parties would line up, personally I don't think many people will ever line up to sue me but I've been threatened a few times. So its not wholly untraversed territory. You know what I did when one company sent off its nasty lawyers letter, I reminded them of the arbitration clause in the agreement and piloted an agreement to terminate the relationship without harm in a clean break. When one foreign firm issued summons against the company that could be ruinous for the company through lengthy litigation I demanded security for costs which was furnished in a perfectly amicable exchange with their legal representatives only to march down the path of abandonment during the exchange of pleadings leaving them considerably out of pocket. In respect of another organization I ensured that litigation which that organization undertook to deal with a recalcitrant municipality was of a narrow scope and was quickly "winnable" (achieving a defined, beneficial outcome from court). An organization the size of Afrinic and with inherent risk of a litigious counter party in their contractual arrangements knows the thickness of the skull they are dealing with and a failure to institutionally be able to navigate those waters is a profound failure of corporate governance. (It may be argued that the profound failure of corporate governance is from a while back and the present board is merely experiencing the fruits of same, I certainly advance sympathy for the CEO) Of course in my personal capacity I've written to the attorneys for a bully who had threatened an individual who had investigated and revealed malfeasance of their client with a defamation action. This correspondence was to make it very clear that even if the original reporter could be silenced I would not and that they were welcome to bring about litigation. Within a day or so their client was in damage control. Instead of litigation I get newsletters and Christmas e-cards from the firm. I've told Vika Mpisane in no uncertain terms that if he is welcome to try and sue me and if his attorneys reach out I'll accept service by email, but that particular corrupt broker of ineptitude will just find litigation deleterious to his interests - discovery can be a bitch. These are conscious personal decisions based on the amount of risk I am personally prepared to assume (and are grounded in knowing I have the facts and the applicable law on my side). I would not do this such as to bind an organization though, because I am then dealing with other people's rights. And that's the point. Afrinic must respect the rights and stability of its members. Member;s rights (including their commercial interest) are paramount over some ideological grandstanding bullshit. The mission of developing digital commerce and connectivity in Africa is not served by such a course. There is at least one vocal performer on these mailing lists who I am quite close to giving the same declaration as I've given Vika but I haven't figured out to what extent said individual is an actual problem or just a total moron (of course it will be interesting to see who is so vain as to think this sentence is about them). Let us assume that a natural person has a sufficiently strong basis to believe that CI or whatever cabal they believe exists are destroying the prospects of global connectivity for millions of Africans then let them in their personal capacity state as much as deal with the legal risks created, but an organization accountable to its members cannot adopt such a stand if those risks are against its members interests. For this reason the failure of Afrinic to mitigate against defamation of CI and persons affiliated with same should similarly be viewed as a problem. Personally I have no reason to believe that CI is guilty of anything, least of all undermining the prospects of connectivity to billions of people residing in Africa. Whatever else I may suspect or fear about carpetbagging happening, nothing comes close to the sort of criminality you want people to infer can be attributed to CI - the bank robbery analogy for example. All that I've witnessed is that so long as there exists a comfortable scapegoat outside of Africa to blame for Afrinic's problems then that will be used as a distraction. All of which leads to the big problem with how you are being led to frame the discussion. The question is not whether Afrinic is obligated to take every reasonable step to hold accountable those who robbed and pillaged the organization but rather whether the organization is actually doing so. From where I am sitting all that I am seeing is a smoke screen that hurts the ability to ensure accountability and my suspicion is that this is deliberate and intentional. Considering remarks some years back directed at white South Africans ( https://www.theregister.com/2016/06/03/racism_row_hits_african_internet_registry/, https://afnog.org/pipermail/afren/2016-May/000474.html) the trope of Afrinic being hijacked by "foreigners" is worn to the ground and the sooner people stop giving credence to the trope the sooner problems can be solved. For what it's worth the concern of any one member being able to control the organization is one which gravely and continuously concerns anybody who cares about good governance in the community. Just imagine if Afrinic was transparent before the last /8. Paul, this is the second time that you have injected these dual epithets, > "xenophobic" and "regionalist" into the conversation here. I personally > feel that these terms are both distracting and beneath the otherwise > admirable level of your discourse. Further, I am not even persuaded > that the term "regionalist" even is an epithet, even though it is clear > that you intend us to interpret it that way. I don't believe "epithet" is quite the word you are looking for and that you are attributing far more rhetoric into the terms than is apposite. I am battling to fathom how either term is distracting - if anything they serve to highlight the actual distraction afoot. Let me first deal with "xenophobic". The term refers to an expression of fear or hatred of foreigners. In the context of a multinational community it naturally means persons perceived to not belong to the constituent nationalities. Moreover though "perceived to be foreign" also includes people who for reasons beyond national identity are positioned as "foreign". It is undeniable that there has been frequent mention of the fact that the principal stakeholder of CI is of Chinese ethnicity. I admit not knowing what this individual's native nationality, current citizenship or anything related to his politics or non-commercial affiliations. For that matter apart from knowing that he has an involvement in various companies in different jurisdictions I know very little about about the man and honestly remain to date uncertain as to the ordering of his name and surname. What I do know is that the animus shown towards his organizations with deep ethnic undertones is despicable and deplorable. It can only be properly described as xenophobic. Coupled with other anti-foreigner sentiments expressed how does one conclude other than that a plague of xenophobia damages the community. The plague of xenophobia is made all the worse by the inherent hypocrisy of bemoaning foreign influence while demanding foreign funding (stability fund) and connectivity (a global Internet). As for regionalism. Of course the very nature of "region" is that the term is only used in a context. In some contexts a region is larger than one sovereign state - the African region or SADC region in others it is a sub-division of a sovereign state. Regionalism is promoting policies and ideologies to give more control and power to regions at the expense of the pre-existing balance. The common denominator between sub-national regionalism and supra-national regionalism as well as trans-national regionalism is therefore moving away from the authority and power structures status quo. In and of itself if there is a sound reason to argue that power or authority should be shifted from it status quo locus then there is nothing intrinsically wrong with regionalism when it is paired with following proper processes to effect the desired change. When however - as has been occurring on various Afrinic mailing lists - it is paired with an ethos of undermining or ignoring the pre-existing agreements, arrangements and rules then it is often a rather dangerous thing. That both of the views of sub-regionalism and supra-regionalism are expressed by the same individuals isn't a contradiction or a paradox (the fact that they contradict themselves on so many other things being besides the present point) but rather a reinforcement of the fact that the proponents are advocating straying from the rules and norms already in place. The essence of regionalism is the rendering of political arguments to move authority from where they are located (usually at a national level) to some different identity based on geography basis which is either at a larger or smaller scope. These arguments may make for great politics but they are often a nuisance for commerce and certainty. (Of course Brexit is a special animal in which opposition to a regional body has lead to the same effect but again it represents a political movement riding roughshod over norms and certainty) What should be quite clear is that the opposite to regionalist in context therefore is to subscribe to the view that Afrinic is a Mauritian based member's organization established to serve a community and perform several global functions. Afrinic derives its authority from its function and purpose and not from some ill-defined ideological proposition. Paul, if you're going to trumpet the beneficial effects of globalist > capitalism, then you had best be prepared also to defend its less > desirable effects as well. Is it right or proper or fair that a > poor sharecropper in Kenya should go hungry or that his daughter > should lose an eye for want of a surgeon, all because speculators in > New York have decided amongst themselves that the global price of > bulk coffee should be cut in half this week? I am honestly battling to grasp the point you are trying to make. Largely because its clear you've made a massive leap of reasoning away from something logical and into the absurd. As somebody has already pointed out I haven't being trumpeting some manner of globalist unbridled capitalism and certainly not the the sort you are seeming to invoke. What I am putting forward is that the the speculators in New York shouldn't be allowed to repudiate their contract to purchase coffee at a given price because they feel like it. What I would also point out is that the sharecropper in Kenya's government doesn't get to rob him at 8am and at 9am say that its the coffee speculators fault for declining to pay them bribes for the right to source coffee from Kenya. Of course I am not suggesting that the current Kenyan government is such a government - no idea why you specifically selected Kenya. Closer to home the South African government doesn't have the right to blame Wall Street for the considerable damage to property and undermining of livelihoods caused by the looting in KZN and Gauteng. Of course the strawman you are trying to build also has the major defect of failing to recognize that if the sharecropper was not participating in global trade he wouldn't be able to sell the coffee at all. The appropriate analogy here is that the sharecropper can have his farm implements taken by a company in Mauritius because a person in Uganda doesn't like who the sharecropper is selling his coffee crops to. I'm damn glad that you are not the CEO of my bank. It seems that if you > were, and if the place got robbed, you would just throw up your hands and > say "Oh well! Boys will be boys!" If the bank got robbed three times in a row, you would blame it on the > bank and urge the bank president to sit down in arbitration with the > various robbers. If I was the CEO of a bank and the bank was robbed the twice in a row, I'd look quite closely at what the security staff are doing. I'd ask some fairly hard questions about assumptions that were made in how the bank protects itself from robbery. For a bank being robbed is much like losing a parent (to barrow from the character of Lady Bracknell from the great Mr Wilde) - to loose one may be regarded as a misfortune, to lose both looks like carelessness and to loose three requires the answering of some questions. Then lets assume that I am the CEO of a bank, the bank has been robbed and we think we know where the robbers and loot is. One thing I would not do is go into the robbers lair guns blazing and seek to violently take my loot. In South Africa this is because my lawyers would be yelling at me abut *mandament van spoilie* but in almost all civilized jurisdictions there is an aversion to violently dispossessing somebody in peaceful possession. So yes if I can get the robbers to sit down to arbitration more quickly than having to go through judicial proceedings to recover my banks property that is definitely the road I'd take. I would at all times weigh up the risk and reward balances and act in the interest of the bank rather than my wish to lash out at the bank robbers. But here is the real issue. If my bank was robbed I wouldn't use that as an excuse to go and rob the rich guys in the town. Other than the fact that CI has an abundance of address space which Afrinic allocated to it what basis is there to allege that they are robbers? (whether in an analogy or otherwise). We know of Afrinic being robbed, and we know it was an inside job. We know at least one former director of Afrinic is corrupt and was removed from an office of trust due to malfeasance and same failed to disclose being suspended when seeking re-election to the Afrinic board. We know that the opposition to proposals to use IPv4 resources in commercially sensible way that would have produced the ability for the community to fund connectivity investment came in no small part from individuals who participated in or orchestrated the grand heist. Put differently as much as I want the bank robbers to be evicted from their goolies I am not about to launch a *Kristallnacht * [considering how much text has been flooding the discussion boards the duty to invite Godwin into things is long overdue - although I will point out I am not equating anybody's position or argument with the Nazi's only saying that you shouldn't ever be a Nazi even if you like Hugo Boss outfits] Of course we aren't talking about bank robbers but rather a contractual issue, and there even more so well before as a bank I'd do something that could violate my contractual relationship with a client (who also happens to be a member of the mutual which the bank is) I'd be damn sure that they aren't able to put the bank in a sling. It is probably worth reiterating that I actually doubt the CEO is in any way at fault. A CEO has to depend on the advise of employees and a Board can make an idiotic decision but that doesn't change the situation away from being a profound failure of governance. As for boy's being boys. I am very much opposed to the idea of letting accountability slip on some daft basis. But I will say this when trying to mitigate against the danger of misconduct understanding what you are dealing with helps. I'd rather deal with a predictable rational actor than an irrational actor. And if the bank where my money is held were to be going after non-bank robbers while doing little to nothing to deal with the banks security I'd be pushing to get my money moved to another bank. And if the bank was doing everything in its power to stop me from transferring to another bank while the bank is trying to dip into the funds of another client to appropriate I'd be more than mildly concerned. > It seems however that you want AFRINIC to sit down amicably with those > thieves and negotiate with them so that they each get to keep half of > what they have provably stolen. Doing so would only add disgrace to > dishonor, and I, for one, sincerly hope that AFRINIC does not do so. On a daily basis throughout the United States this is exactly what prosecutors do. They sit down amicably with criminals (and/or their legal representatives) and lay out what they can prove and determine whether a plea bargain can be secured. In many other jurisdictions something similar happens. But even outside of a controversial plea bargaining process in commercial discourse this is a continuous process and it is often quite disheartening (a newspaper settling a defamation case for an amount that the insurance covers while the plaintiff is in fact the monster that they portrayed him because it can be proven that the paper got the story wrong and fighting the matter will destroy livelihoods) and an organization must make a rational decision informed by those facts as can be proved as to how to meet the organization's mission. In commercial disputes there is little reason to be unprofessional and uncooperative. Civil courts work better if parties are at the very least civil with each other. You never know which legal representatives of counter-parties will send you Christmas cards or sit on a conference panel with you and the like with. As it can be proven to any threshold of proof that a staff member of Afrinic misappropriated address space the negotiations should be pretty damn one sided with respect to dealing with certain address space. As far as I understand the publicly available evidence the Cohen litigation is protracted by the simple fact that Afrinic is entangled by trying to play both registry and asset acquirer. What I don't understand is why you are conflating the heist and associated questions about ownership with Cloud Innovation. The only publicly presented commonality between the two is that they both represent controversy created by Afrinic during a spree of stupidity by Afrinic. It appears unfortunately that you have been bamboozled by the distraction. To establish the degree to which this is a distraction ask the simple question "how would a rational Afrinic behave if it had evidence linking CI to criminal conduct"? Let's assume for the present argument that Cloud Innovation secured their considerable resources from the then hostmaster and Board (who it is very clear considered the application for allocation) improperly and that the particulars of same require a party involved in the heist to spill the beans. Well you now have to weigh up the value of getting the facts. If you negotiate with the beneficiary of the crime you can prove the crime - who is more valuable the person who pulled the trigger or the person who took out the contract? Consider a situation in which you have a basis to believe that somebody paid a bribe to a law enforcement officer, if you let them enjoy the fruit of their wrongful activity (evading criminal liability and being a small amount out of pocket) you can convict the law enforcement officer. I am strongly of the view that if somebody initiated the corrupt dealing then there is culpability on their part but if a traffic cop initiates the engagement I'd rather the bribe payer who provides evidence keep the benefit both as a matter of principle and practicality. On the other hand somebody who initiated the bribe or cultivated a generally corrupt relationship is different and I'd rather a cop who comes clean about bribes he has received keep his liberty and pension and testify against those who initiated the bribes. Some matters will fall in the middle and it is the provable facts tha If somebody is caught with stolen good after a looting spree (a problem that has recently occured in South Africa) law enforcement could well be able to get valuable information to break down the network and planning of criminal enterprise by letting the grunts on the ground be marginally enriched. But the inverse is equally true. A criminal once caught can rat out and provide the evidence to prove the nefarious dealings of the underlings.. So if (and here its important that its if) the hypothesis that is being pushed out by some that Cloud Innovation wrongfully obtained the allocations as part of the great IP heist then we have every reason to play the game of whoever cuts a deal first gets the better deal. If this is the case then trying to terminate their membership and acting such as would make it in their interests to be silent are all deleterious. Its also quite important to coddle onto the stark reality that so much of what is being done in targeting a member has the smatterings of being a distraction, other than time frame I haven't picked up any good reason to assume that the allocations to CI are in any way connected to the criminal activities of the heist. The simple fact is at this stage nobody has provided a shred of evidence of wrongdoing on Cloud Innovations part and there are many explanations for their attitude, behaviour and approach. It is more probable that the Afrinic Board was dolling out large allocations to cloud providers at the time based in some of the smaller jurisdictions and at a time the Seychelles was actively courting digital hosting activity. An explanation of laziness and Afrinic seeking to allure political support from some states in the region explains the allocation. Suggestions that same stole the IP range is based only on the fact that they have a large quantity. Equating the presence of wealth with proof of criminality is a dangerous fallacy to be on. The answer is clear - either the assault on CI is designed to cover up prior malfeasance by Afrinic, or it is a distraction. Either way what it serves to postpone dealing with issues. The result is that even if CI are somehow nefarious they will either be the scapegoat for everything or they will get away scott free even if they have done something untoward in some shape and form. For exactly the same reason I am opposed to the police pistol whipping a person they reasonably believe jaywalked and unreasonably believe to be a violent offender as you could end up with criminal charges on all manner of later discovered offences dismissed and you could find an innocent person wrongfully persecuted, I find jumping the gun on terminating a members membership to be the height of stupidity. If an agreement between law keeper and law breaker cannot happen then the prosecutors have to put what they can prove before an impartial body and line up the consequences that follow. What a person can't do - and I've laid this out earlier - is act as a judge in your own cause, to prejudice third parties, to deny audi alteram, to take possession from a peaceful possessor without following proper process. In short you may not act as a law unto yourself. If you try to act as a law unto yourself you must either have the depth of pockets to hold out by kragdadigheid (and that ultimately seldom works either) or expect to quickly find that litigants who otherwise would have no hope in prevailing against you are suddenly a monumental nuisance and that your arrogance will be your undoing (don't try Stalingrad tactics if you don't have the money). You will find irate judges and an inflated litigation budget. Nothing in the service agreements or by-laws allows for a deviation from the principles of natural justice. When parties arrange their affairs to provide for the principles of natural justice to be given effect, courts are far less inclined (and less able) to intervene. What Afrinic has continuously failed to do is to uphold the principles of natural justice in its interaction with members. It uses the excuse of litigation to drag its feet in some matters and rushes into others knowing full well that they will be stopped by litigation. But of course so long as people will foolishly take to attacking the courts and the law out of some nonsensical and frankly tribal sentiment this wont change. I don't want Afrinic to sit down amicably with people who have wronged the organization because of some belief that the later should get a free pass. I want Afrinic to be pragmatic in ensuring accountability and to achieve accountability rather than pretend to value it. Accountability also means accountability of those within the organization and those who while working for or holding a fiduciary responsibility to the organization in the past violated their fiduciary responsibilities. . What I really want is transparency, accountability and good faith from an organization charged with developing the Internet in the continent that is my home. I want the bullshit to come to an end. So much bullshit can be resolved through sitting down and devising workable, well defined policies and moving forward with those policies. To get proper well defined policies we will need to start by jettisoning this nonsensical view that IPv4 allocations are in any way useful to connect billions of people. For one thing there simply aren't all that many addresses. IPv4 resources are only one reasonably insignificant tool in promoting development for the region, the Rule of Law, an adherence to consistency and certainty to promote investment and so on are all much better tools. The continued attempt to equate allocation policies with utilization requirement is for example bonkers. One final thing, I mentioned at some point that the courts will very quickly express opprobrium of CI if they have not been candid in their proceedings and thus after the 4th we should know more. It is important to note that the 4th August is (per the order placed on the mailing list) not a hearing or the next instance at which an order from the courts may be expected. My comment is that IF (which seems very unlikely) Cloud Innovation has made a mistep in legal proceedings the courts of Mauritius after the 4th August are will placed to hold them accountable (as their further papers will have been filed). What I anticipate is that a hearing and order that safeguards various concerns and interests will be forthcoming at some point in the future but that the sooner Afrinic is seen to be respectful of the courts of Mauritius the better for Afrinic. What may occur is that the Mauritius Supreme Court will actually require pre-trial conferences and even cause the matter to be handled by a judge for mediation (the Courts Act makes provision for the Chief Justice to do so and there is a mediation rule). My hunch is that mediation - as opposed to arbitration - is actually not in Afrinic's interests on this matter but this is a hunch. If Cloud Innovation move an application to have the matter put in the mediation court I'll be more confident in my hunch. It is worth noting that Cloud Innovation have actually posted the particulars of court proceedings as permitted online: https://cloudinnovation.org//press-release.html Two things stand quite clearly: Afrinic was restrained by the Court from acting adversely against CI on the 13th July but persisted in doing so until the 15th July when the unfortunately position CEO of Afrinic was pushed to explain that the organization would comply with the order of the 13th. Secondly CI has given an undertaking (and repeatedly have done so) both to abide by the decisions of the Mauritius courts (which is a foreign jurisdiction to a Seychelles entity) and to pay damages arising from it assuming "at its own risks and perils" in its proceedings. Evidently Cloud Innovation and their legal representatives have such strong confidence in their case that they are able to undertake to the court to pay damages to Afrinic (the Respondent). Evidently CI and their stakeholders are committed to a rule based international system and are prepared to rely on the law to promote their commercial interests. Those voices which advocate that Afrinic not be equally committed to the rule based international system of law need to be repudiated by the organization and its membership in clear and unambiguous terms. It is this repudiation which I make in no uncertain terms in my personal capacity. If anybody wants to take issue with this they are welcome to get their South African based legal representatives to send me an email with whatever daft demands they may choose to make and I'll gladly accept process by electronic mail and defend against such demands. Of course if they aren't based in South Africa they can expect to be put to task to furnish security for costs but they'll have to get in line with Vika and a bunch of crooks and bullies I've given the same invitation to. And of course if Afrinic secures an independent set of eyes on the facts and same concludes that the Board jumped the gun and that they have a dreadful case then the sooner that they can apologize and put this matter to bed and then get down to resolving the policy problems within the organization. At this juncture the cost of getting an opinion from additional counsel on the prospects is considerably less than what having to pay for a silk down the line will cost. I certainly don't think it would be responsible for any other RIR to make stability funds available to Afrinic without such an opinion being procured and same being favourable. To be quite honest I am surprised at the service provider associations who have not qualified their public statements in a similar way as ISPA-ZA have prior to obtaining same. I hope you will join me in repudiating such voices and whatever your suspicions or animosity towards CI and so on you'll recognize that Afrinic needs to follow the laws it is bound to and not pretend to be a law unto itself nor to align itself with those voices that advocate it to do so. Paul -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Tue Aug 3 03:38:35 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 20:38:35 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments In-Reply-To: <66199.1627863590@segfault.tristatelogic.com> References: <66199.1627863590@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: > On Aug 1, 2021, at 17:19 , Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: > > In message > Christian Orozco wrote: > >> Owen said, the CORRECTION of behavior is what's being sought. > > I also have many outstanding quarrels with AFRINIC and I also fervently > desire to see the organization's behavior be corrected. > > But I do not pursue these goals either at the point of a gun, or via a > $1.8 BILLION dollar lawsuit. I do not do so because the ends do not > justify the means, and I am a believer that change should be effected > via democratic means, despite how frustrating that kind of process may > be at times. Would I have preferred to do this without having to involve the court systems? Yes, I would. We tried that. Eddy chose not express offense at our willingness to question their interpretation of policy instead of choosing to listen to the merits of our argument. He basically put us on notice that AFRINIC?s next step would be to terminate our membership and revoke our resources. Under such a circumstance, with so many customers and the company?s reputation on the line, the decision was made (well above my pay grade) that it was necessary to pursue legal remedies to protect the company from AFRINIC?s unreasonable actions. > What is happening right now is instead an attempt at a corporate coup, > and a hostile takeover, all engineered by one company and by one man. I?m pretty sure that Lu has no desire to own AFRINIC or take over its operations. Indeed, we have repeatedly expressed our interest and willingness to accept a reasonable settlement offer from AFRINIC. So far, AFRINIC has escalated the conflict at every opportunity rather than express any desire to seek compromise or resolution. > This is the very opposite of democracy. This has nothing to do with democracy, this is business. AFRINIC threatened to violate the terms of our contract based on violations and actions contrary to their own policies. They chose not to attempt to resolve the dispute through negotiation and rejected any possibility of other resolution. It?s a fairly ordinary contract dispute, not a coup, not any sort of hostile takeover, nothing of the sort. Owen From owen at delong.com Tue Aug 3 03:57:59 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 20:57:59 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Share About Cloud Innovation Ltd and their business In-Reply-To: References: <31299.1627244609@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <745F630B-A186-481C-9704-BCA2A0869089@delong.com> <418e1240-bbaa-b658-43aa-dfd75fc769db@geier.ne.tz> Message-ID: <014477A4-1987-43FB-B8A8-A70B746B3A5A@delong.com> > On Aug 2, 2021, at 00:03 , Sylvain Baya wrote: > > Dear AfriNIC's Community, > > Please see my comments below, inline... > > Le samedi 31 juillet 2021, Owen DeLong > a ?crit : > > >> On Jul 30, 2021, at 15:14 , Sylvain Baya > wrote: >> >> Dear AfriNIC's Community, >> >> Le mercredi 28 juillet 2021, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss > a ?crit : >> >>> >>> >>> [...] >>> >> >> You?re not answering the question I asked? >> >> >> Hi Owen, >> Thanks for your email, brother! >> >> >> What is your basis in policy for claiming that a VM is OK, but leasing addresses without providing connectivity >> services is not? >> >> >> ...you might have forgotten about a simple notion, >> called: conservation. You shall recognize it as it has >> been refered out there as *Reservations*. > > I have not forgotten, but we are not talking about reservation. > > > Hi Owen, > Thanks to take time to reply to my email, brother. > > ...so, *we*! i assume the same *we* you usually > use to call your team to support your personal interpretation of the facts? No, we is you and I, the people engaged in this particular conversational thread. > > Btw, you are entitled to your own opinion. > > ...let's, at least, agree to disagree :-/ > > > We are talking about deployment on an actual > host connected to the internet for legitimate use. > > > ...again, *we*:=you+your_supporting_team, brother? > > For what it's worth, in order to lease community's > ressources such as INRs, one shall *reserve* it first; Um, that?s true whether one is leasing the INRs with or without connnectivity services attached, so you have either pointed out how we are identical to every other LIR, or, you have both pointed this out _AND_ called into question the standard practice of every LIR. I?m not sure which is intended. > otherwise, any of the end-users/clients shall come > to the Registration Service to request the needed > INRs; sure to find some there...and you know it: We don?t do anything to interfere with or prevent end-users or clients from seeking internet number resources from any other source. > those must be incorporated within the AfriNIC's > service region...they would save a lot of money > comparing to what could be otherwise payed to > an intermediary *LIR*...not *GIR*... Many LIRs operate on a global scale, including, for example, Verizon, Hurricane Electric, Akamai, and more. The term LIR is primarily used not so much to indicate some diminutive scope as to provide a convenient distinction from RIR (regional, quasi-continental) or NIR (National). > ...note that no AfriNIC's Resource Member is a GIR (Global Internet Registry) but all are LIRs (Local > Internet Registries) established/approved to serve > their local economic zone and free to deploy their business accross the whole AfriNIC's service > region, wherever they can extend it; legally speaking. You are misunderstanding the nature of the term LIR here. There is nothing in AFRINIC?s governing documents which prohibits its resource members from deploying their business across the entire planet. If you believe that there is, please provide relevant citations to the appropriate governing document(s). > The difference? The only difference? Is that the > connectivity service does not come from the same provider as the addresses. > > > ...if...then, please see above! If what? > You seem to read the CPM selectively, if not why could you ignore the notion of valid assignments > and SAW. SAW applies to sub allocations made from one LIR to another. Cloud Innovation makes assignments and does not make sub allocations, thus the SAW does not apply. As to ?valid assignments? where is it that you think these are defined? Which section of the CPM do you think I have ignored in considering Cloud Innovations assignments valid? > ...icymi, please see here: > > How is this relevant to this case? 5.5.1.1.3 is about transfers ? Does not apply here. 5.5.1.2.3 is about efficiency. ? Cloud Innovations utilization fraction is extremely efficient. 5.5.1.3 is about slow start ? how AFRINIC goes about allocating to LIRs ? Does not apply here. 5.5.1.4.1 is about utilization percentage required to request more space from AFRINIC ? We are not applying for additional space, so this does not apply here. 5.5.1.4.2 is about reservations ? No reservations are being made. In this context, the term reservation is used to reference a situation where an LIR has set aside a group of addresses not actually deployed on hosts and attempts to claim that those addresses set aside in that manner are utilized for the purposes of calculating the utilization percentage in 5.5.1.4.1. Since 5.5.1.4.1 does not apply in this situation, and we are not making any such reservations, 5.5.1.4.2 does not apply, either. 5.5.1.7 We have, in fact, complied with all documentation requirements. 5.5.1.8 We are an LIR and not an end users, so not sure how you consider this relevant, please enlighten. 5.5.1.9 Utilization ? We have properly reported our utilization through WHOIS at all times. 5.5.1.10 Reservations ? Again ? We are not making reservations, so this does not apply. 5.5.1.11 Validity of an assignment ? We enforce this upon the assignments we make. We have also updated AFRINIC as the nature of our assignments changed. 5.5.1.13 Suballocation window ? We are not making sub allocations, so this does not apply. 5.5.1.13.2 ? See 5.5.1.13 above 5.5.1.13.3 ? See 5.5.1.13 above 5.5.1.14 Recordkeeping ? We have kept all records required under this provision and have provided same to AFIRNIC whenever a sufficiently specific request to identify the desired documents has been received. So, not a selective reading at all? A very detailed reading. Owen > > copy -> paste: > > ~?~ > > Yes! i took the responsibility to bring the CPM section 5.5 | IPv4 LIR/ISP > Allocations (5.5.1 Allocation policies and guidelines) to you, in case it > might have been a too hard task to go it the location of that content. > Please accept to read it... > > ...i did it with the naive expectation that it > could help the PDWG to move forward > on some recuring topics, such as > Internet number resources (at least for > IPv4 types) utilisation and responsibilities > thereof, within the AfriNIC's service region. > > Therefore permit me to recommend the following subventions to your > particular attention: > > ??? > ? 5.5.1.1.3 If an LIR plans to exchange or transfer address space, it needs > to contact AFRINIC so that the changes are properly registered. > ? 5.5.1.2.3 Must show an existing efficient utilization of IP addresses > from their upstream provider. > ? 5.5.1.3 Slow start mechanism for first allocations > ? 5.5.1.4.1 An LIR may receive an additional allocation when about 80% of > all the address space currently allocated to it has been used in valid > assignments and/or sub-allocations. > ? 5.5.1.4.2 Reservations are not considered as valid assignments or > sub-allocations. > ? 5.5.1.7 Documentation > ? 5.5.1.8 Network infrastructure (of LIR) vs End-User networks > ? 5.5.1.9 Utilisation > ? 5.5.1.10 Reservations not supported > ? 5.5.1.11 Validity of an assignment > ? 5.5.1.13 Sub-Allocation Window (SAW) > ? 5.5.1.13.1 A sub-allocation window (SAW) refers to the maximum number of > IPv4 addresses that the LIR may sub-allocate to the end-users without > seeking approval from AFRINIC. > ? 5.5.1.13.2 AFRINIC will review sub-allocation made by the LIR's using > their SAW to ensure that policies are followed correctly. > ? 5.5.1.13.3 Below are a few guidelines for the SAW: > ? 5.5.1.14 Recordkeeping by LIRs > ??? > > Please let me know if it was a bad initiative :-/ > > Thanks. > > > Source: > > ~?~ > > > >> Please read again the CPM at section 5: >> >> ~?~ >> [...] >> ? 5.5.1.4.1 An LIR may receive an additional allocation when about 80% of >> all the address space currently allocated to it has been used in valid >> assignments and/or sub-allocations. >> ? 5.5.1.4.2 *Reservations* are not considered as valid assignments or >> sub-allocations. >> [...] >> ~?~ > > Yep? that?s not a prohibition on valid assignment and/or sub allocation independent of > connectivity services, that?s a prohibition of addresses not being attached to hosts. > > > ...don't divide/separate the tools, please. > It's not allowed. The implementers use it all: > Bylaws+RSA+CPM to the good of the AfriNIC's > service region. > Do you want to change something? > ...you know how to try! > > >> It?s simply not prohibited anywhere in policy. >> >> >> Are you serious? >> >> ...going further, along with what i wrote above, note >> that *conservation* is not valid, that appears to be >> the best description of leasing...of INRs. > > Nope? It?s not a good description at all. Reservations (as prohibited in 5.5.1.4.2) refers > > > ...i'm already convinced it is! > You shall accept it as is :-) > Do you want to change it? > > > to addresses set aside for later use?Addresses not currently assigned to active hosts. > > > ...your words, mine :-/ > > CPM section 5.5.1.4.2 says: > > ~?~ > 5.5.1.4.2 Reservations are not considered as valid assignments or > sub-allocations. > > It may be useful for internal aggregation to keep some IP blocks free for > future growth. These internal reservations are however not counted as valid > usage and must be assigned or sub-allocated before requesting for > additional allocation. > ~?~ > > ...my understanding of *reservation* include yours. > Hence, there are other possibilities. You can not > change that. Feel free to try with other tactics... > > > Such is not the case with leasing. With leasing, the addresses are assigned to hosts active > on the internet, but the hosts may be getting their connectivity from a different provider than > they are getting the addresses from. > > > This is not a practice allowed within the AfriNIC's > service region , you should understand it...but feel > free to keep your business logic...describing it as > you want, will not change what it is in reality... > > CPM sections 5.5.1.10 & 5.5.1.11 say: > > ~?~ > 5.5.1.10 Reservations not supported > > End-users are not permitted to reserve address space based on long term > plans. This violates the goal of conservation and fragments the address > space when initial forecasts are not met. If an LIR wants to assign address > space for customers, it must make the assignments from any unallocated or > unassigned address space it currently holds. For the purposes evaluating > allocation requests, space reserved by an LIR for other customers is > considered unused. > > 5.5.1.11 Validity of an assignment > > Assignments remain valid as long as the original criteria on which the > assignment was based are still in place and the assignment is registered in > the AFRINIC database. An assignment is therefore invalid if it is not > registered in the database and if the purpose for which it was registered > has changed or no longer holds. > ~?~ > > ...yes! again: *the purpose* [1] coupled with > the RSA section 4(c)(i), to not say all the full > section 4. titled: *Conditions of service*. > __ > [1]: > > > > >> Those who are charged to implement the CPM have >> indicated the same. Could you, please, show us >> where the CPM allows it? > > If they have indicated this, then they are simply in error as that is not what it actually says. > I have not noticed AFRINIC staff referring to this section as prohibiting leasing, but perhaps > their reference escaped me at some point. > > It does not need to be specifically permitted. That which is not prohibited is permitted implicitly. > > > ...permitted where? > > Have you tried to put Bylaws+RSA+CPM together? > > Please try, then come back with your results. > > > Unless there is an explicit requirement in the CPM that hosts receive connectivity services from > the same provider which provides their addresses, then independent assignment is inherently > permitted and this is the current state. > > > ...the current course is otherwise, and you know it. > > Again, when there is an established RIR, to serve LIRs and End-Users within its own service region... > it's by definition the responsibility of the latters to > serve their local end-users, if applicable...i'm ready > to agree if you point me to any section of the CPM, > the Bylaws or the RSA where it's clearly stated that > AfriNIC shall allocate/assign INRs to GIRs (*Global* Internet Registries) or *Global* End-Users. > > As long as there is no mention of the existence of > GIRs within the AfriNIC service region, you shall > understand that out-of-region assignments or > sub-allocations could not be the normal trend... > > ...i'm awaiting :-/ > > > I hope you now understand the difference between a reservation (holding unused addresses, > > > You expect me to understand what? > > ...please see above and get my answer from there. > > > such as what Seacom and many others are doing) vs. providing addresses that are actually > in use, but not simultaneously providing transit or transport services. > > > ...don't mix problems, do fill your complain > appropriately, please, and the community > shall address it usual. > > Thanks to stop your divertion! but you are free > to continue to support some wrong doings... > > Have a blessed monday! > > Shalom, > --sb. > > > Owen > >> >> Shalom, >> --sb. >> >> >>> Or wait... I can not find this so-called LIR Cloud Innovation Limited with offices in Seychelles using this BGP tool. >>> >>> https://bgp.he.net/country/SC >> >> And? >> [...] > > > > -- > -- > Best Regards ! > __ > baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]|> > Subscribe to Mailing List: > > __ > #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|#?Romains15?:33?Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec vous tous! ?#?Amen?!? > ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement? > ?Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!?(#Psaumes42:2) > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ish.sookun at lasentinelle.mu Tue Aug 3 06:30:54 2021 From: ish.sookun at lasentinelle.mu (Ish Sookun) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2021 10:30:54 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments In-Reply-To: References: <66199.1627863590@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: <4219899.9vmVNn7lDy@coffee-bar> Hi Owen, On Tuesday, 3 August 2021 07:38:35 +04 Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss wrote: > Under such a circumstance, with so many customers and the company?s > reputation on the line, the decision was made (well above my pay grade) > that it was necessary to pursue legal remedies to protect the company from > AFRINIC?s unreasonable actions. Don't you think you forgot to mention your affiliation with CI when addressing to the journalist of D?fimedia newspaper [1] (Mauritius)? I refer to your statement: ? Le consultant am?ricain et sp?cialiste d?internet, Owen DeLong a ?galement souhait? r?agir. Il prend position en faveur de Cloud Innovation. Dans un courriel adress? au D?fi Plus [...] Owen DeLong estime lui aussi que Cloud Innovation est dans son bon droit. ? Don't you think this piece of information was important to the readers, that you are on CI payroll and not an independent American consultant & Internet specialist saying that CI is right? Regards, -- Ish Sookun [1] https://defimedia.info/litige-qui-menace-internet-laccusateur-contredit-afrinic From amelnaud at gmail.com Tue Aug 3 07:02:03 2021 From: amelnaud at gmail.com (Arnaud AMELINA) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2021 07:02:03 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Share About Cloud Innovation Ltd and their business In-Reply-To: <014477A4-1987-43FB-B8A8-A70B746B3A5A@delong.com> References: <31299.1627244609@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <745F630B-A186-481C-9704-BCA2A0869089@delong.com> <418e1240-bbaa-b658-43aa-dfd75fc769db@geier.ne.tz> <014477A4-1987-43FB-B8A8-A70B746B3A5A@delong.com> Message-ID: Chers membres d la communaut? Ne voyez-vous pas que Owen se paie notre t?te (expression francophone j'ignore si ?a existe en anglais). Il r?p?te le m?me refrain tout le temps comme Fernando l'a fait remarquer. Malgr? toutes les preuves ? lui fourni par tous les autres contributeurs il r?p?te les m?me choses, maintenant je viens ? douter que m?me lui n'est pas auteur de ses diff?rents textes qu'il postes, parce que sans aucune coh?rence avec les autres contributions qui lui ont r?pondu. Rien que de la r?p?tition argumentaires comme si nous n'avons que ?a ? faire. Eux , ils sont payer pour produire ces genres de documents toute la journ?e, lui et ses echochambers. Je ne juge m?me plus utile de le lui r?pondre , tellement il r?p?te les m?mes erreurs de compr?hension. On dirait qu'il veut se convaincre que ce qu'il dit est juste et v?ridique, car lui-m?me n'en est pas encore convaincu. English Dear community members Can't you see that Owen is "paying our head " (French expression I don't know if it exists in English). He repeats the same refrain all the time as Fernando pointed out. Despite all the evidence provided to him by all the other contributors, he repeats the same things, now I doubt that even him, is not the author of the various texts that he posts, because without any consistency with the others contributions answering him. Nothing but repeating arguments as if we have only that to do. They are paid to produce these kinds of documents all day long, with his echochambers. I no longer even consider it useful to answer him, because he is repeating the same errors of understanding. It looks like he wants to convince himself that what he is saying is right and true, because himself is not yet convinced. -- Arnaud Le mar. 3 ao?t 2021 ? 04:00, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss < community-discuss at afrinic.net> a ?crit : > > > On Aug 2, 2021, at 00:03 , Sylvain Baya wrote: > > Dear AfriNIC's Community, > > Please see my comments below, inline... > > Le samedi 31 juillet 2021, Owen DeLong a ?crit : > >> >> >> On Jul 30, 2021, at 15:14 , Sylvain Baya wrote: >> >> Dear AfriNIC's Community, >> >> Le mercredi 28 juillet 2021, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss < >> community-discuss at afrinic.net> a ?crit : >> >>> >>> >>>> >>>>> [...] >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> You?re not answering the question I asked? >>> >>> >> Hi Owen, >> Thanks for your email, brother! >> >> >> >>> What is your basis in policy for claiming that a VM is OK, but leasing >>> addresses without providing connectivity >>> services is not? >>> >>> >> ...you might have forgotten about a simple notion, >> called: conservation. You shall recognize it as it has >> been refered out there as *Reservations*. >> >> >> I have not forgotten, but we are not talking about reservation. >> >> > Hi Owen, > Thanks to take time to reply to my email, brother. > > ...so, *we*! i assume the same *we* you usually > use to call your team to support your personal interpretation of the > facts? > > > No, we is you and I, the people engaged in this particular conversational > thread. > > > Btw, you are entitled to your own opinion. > > ...let's, at least, agree to disagree :-/ > > >> >> We are talking about deployment on an actual >> host connected to the internet for legitimate use. >> >> > > ...again, *we*:=you+your_supporting_team, brother? > > For what it's worth, in order to lease community's > ressources such as INRs, one shall *reserve* it first; > > > Um, that?s true whether one is leasing the INRs with or > without connnectivity services attached, so you have > either pointed out how we are identical to every other > LIR, or, you have both pointed this out _AND_ called > into question the standard practice of every LIR. > > I?m not sure which is intended. > > otherwise, any of the end-users/clients shall come > to the Registration Service to request the needed > INRs; sure to find some there...and you know it: > > > We don?t do anything to interfere with or prevent end-users > or clients from seeking internet number resources from any > other source. > > those must be incorporated within the AfriNIC's > service region...they would save a lot of money > comparing to what could be otherwise payed to > an intermediary *LIR*...not *GIR*... > > > Many LIRs operate on a global scale, including, for > example, Verizon, Hurricane Electric, Akamai, and > more. The term LIR is primarily used not so much to > indicate some diminutive scope as to provide a convenient > distinction from RIR (regional, quasi-continental) or > NIR (National). > > ...note that no AfriNIC's Resource Member is a GIR (Global Internet > Registry) but all are LIRs (Local > Internet Registries) established/approved to serve > their local economic zone and free to deploy their business accross the > whole AfriNIC's service > region, wherever they can extend it; legally speaking. > > > You are misunderstanding the nature of the term LIR here. > > There is nothing in AFRINIC?s governing documents which prohibits > its resource members from deploying their business across the entire > planet. If you believe that there is, please provide relevant citations > to the appropriate governing document(s). > > The difference? The only difference? Is that the >> connectivity service does not come from the same provider as the >> addresses. >> >> > ...if...then, please see above! > > > If what? > > You seem to read the CPM selectively, if not why could you ignore the > notion of valid assignments > and SAW. > > > SAW applies to sub allocations made from one LIR to another. Cloud > Innovation makes assignments > and does not make sub allocations, thus the SAW does not apply. > > As to ?valid assignments? where is it that you think these are defined? > Which section of the CPM > do you think I have ignored in considering Cloud Innovations assignments > valid? > > ...icymi, please see here: > > > > How is this relevant to this case? > > 5.5.1.1.3 is about transfers ? Does not apply here. > 5.5.1.2.3 is about efficiency. ? Cloud Innovations utilization fraction is > extremely efficient. > 5.5.1.3 is about slow start ? how AFRINIC goes about allocating to LIRs ? > Does not apply here. > 5.5.1.4.1 is about utilization percentage required to request more space > from AFRINIC ? We are not applying for additional space, so this does not > apply here. > 5.5.1.4.2 is about reservations ? No reservations are being made. In this > context, the term reservation is used to reference > a situation where an LIR has set aside a group of addresses not actually > deployed on hosts and attempts to claim that those > addresses set aside in that manner are utilized for the purposes of > calculating the utilization percentage in 5.5.1.4.1. > Since 5.5.1.4.1 does not apply in this situation, and we are not making > any such reservations, 5.5.1.4.2 does not apply, either. > 5.5.1.7 We have, in fact, complied with all documentation requirements. > 5.5.1.8 We are an LIR and not an end users, so not sure how you consider > this relevant, please enlighten. > 5.5.1.9 Utilization ? We have properly reported our utilization through > WHOIS at all times. > 5.5.1.10 Reservations ? Again ? We are not making reservations, so this > does not apply. > 5.5.1.11 Validity of an assignment ? We enforce this upon the assignments > we make. We have also updated > AFRINIC as the nature of our assignments changed. > 5.5.1.13 Suballocation window ? We are not making sub allocations, so this > does not apply. > 5.5.1.13.2 ? See 5.5.1.13 above > 5.5.1.13.3 ? See 5.5.1.13 above > 5.5.1.14 Recordkeeping ? We have kept all records required under this > provision and have provided same to AFIRNIC whenever > a sufficiently specific request to identify the desired documents has been > received. > > So, not a selective reading at all? A very detailed reading. > > Owen > > > copy -> paste: > > ~?~ > > Yes! i took the responsibility to bring the CPM section 5.5 | IPv4 LIR/ISP > Allocations (5.5.1 Allocation policies and guidelines) to you, in case it > might have been a too hard task to go it the location of that content. > Please accept to read it... > > ...i did it with the naive expectation that it > could help the PDWG to move forward > on some recuring topics, such as > Internet number resources (at least for > IPv4 types) utilisation and responsibilities > thereof, within the AfriNIC's service region. > > Therefore permit me to recommend the following subventions to your > particular attention: > > ??? > ? 5.5.1.1.3 If an LIR plans to exchange or transfer address space, it needs > to contact AFRINIC so that the changes are properly registered. > ? 5.5.1.2.3 Must show an existing efficient utilization of IP addresses > from their upstream provider. > ? 5.5.1.3 Slow start mechanism for first allocations > ? 5.5.1.4.1 An LIR may receive an additional allocation when about 80% of > all the address space currently allocated to it has been used in valid > assignments and/or sub-allocations. > ? 5.5.1.4.2 Reservations are not considered as valid assignments or > sub-allocations. > ? 5.5.1.7 Documentation > ? 5.5.1.8 Network infrastructure (of LIR) vs End-User networks > ? 5.5.1.9 Utilisation > ? 5.5.1.10 Reservations not supported > ? 5.5.1.11 Validity of an assignment > ? 5.5.1.13 Sub-Allocation Window (SAW) > ? 5.5.1.13.1 A sub-allocation window (SAW) refers to the maximum number of > IPv4 addresses that the LIR may sub-allocate to the end-users without > seeking approval from AFRINIC. > ? 5.5.1.13.2 AFRINIC will review sub-allocation made by the LIR's using > their SAW to ensure that policies are followed correctly. > ? 5.5.1.13.3 Below are a few guidelines for the SAW: > ? 5.5.1.14 Recordkeeping by LIRs > ??? > > Please let me know if it was a bad initiative :-/ > > Thanks. > > > Source: > ~?~ > > > >> Please read again the CPM at section 5: >> >> ~?~ >> [...] >> ? 5.5.1.4.1 An LIR may receive an additional allocation when about 80% of >> all the address space currently allocated to it has been used in valid >> assignments and/or sub-allocations. >> ? 5.5.1.4.2 *Reservations* are not considered as valid assignments or >> sub-allocations. >> [...] >> ~?~ >> >> >> Yep? that?s not a prohibition on valid assignment and/or sub allocation >> independent of >> connectivity services, that?s a prohibition of addresses not being >> attached to hosts. >> >> > > ...don't divide/separate the tools, please. > It's not allowed. The implementers use it all: > Bylaws+RSA+CPM to the good of the AfriNIC's > service region. > Do you want to change something? > ...you know how to try! > > >> >> It?s simply not prohibited anywhere in policy. >>> >>> >> Are you serious? >> >> ...going further, along with what i wrote above, note >> that *conservation* is not valid, that appears to be >> the best description of leasing...of INRs. >> >> >> Nope? It?s not a good description at all. Reservations (as prohibited in >> 5.5.1.4.2) refers >> > > > ...i'm already convinced it is! > You shall accept it as is :-) > Do you want to change it? > > > to addresses set aside for later use?Addresses not currently assigned to >> active hosts. >> >> > ...your words, mine :-/ > > CPM section 5.5.1.4.2 says: > > ~?~ > 5.5.1.4.2 Reservations are not considered as valid assignments or > sub-allocations. > > It may be useful for internal aggregation to keep some IP blocks free for > future growth. These internal reservations are however not counted as valid > usage and must be assigned or sub-allocated before requesting for > additional allocation. > ~?~ > > ...my understanding of *reservation* include yours. > Hence, there are other possibilities. You can not > change that. Feel free to try with other tactics... > > > >> Such is not the case with leasing. With leasing, the addresses are >> assigned to hosts active >> on the internet, but the hosts may be getting their connectivity from a >> different provider than >> they are getting the addresses from. >> > > > This is not a practice allowed within the AfriNIC's > service region , you should understand it...but feel > free to keep your business logic...describing it as > you want, will not change what it is in reality... > > CPM sections 5.5.1.10 & 5.5.1.11 say: > > ~?~ > 5.5.1.10 Reservations not supported > > End-users are not permitted to reserve address space based on long term > plans. This violates the goal of conservation and fragments the address > space when initial forecasts are not met. If an LIR wants to assign address > space for customers, it must make the assignments from any unallocated or > unassigned address space it currently holds. For the purposes evaluating > allocation requests, space reserved by an LIR for other customers is > considered unused. > > 5.5.1.11 Validity of an assignment > > Assignments remain valid as long as the original criteria on which the > assignment was based are still in place and the assignment is registered in > the AFRINIC database. An assignment is therefore invalid if it is not > registered in the database and if the purpose for which it was registered > has changed or no longer holds. > ~?~ > > ...yes! again: *the purpose* [1] coupled with > the RSA section 4(c)(i), to not say all the full > section 4. titled: *Conditions of service*. > __ > [1]: < > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-July/004137.html > > > > > >> >> Those who are charged to implement the CPM have >> indicated the same. Could you, please, show us >> where the CPM allows it? >> >> >> If they have indicated this, then they are simply in error as that is not >> what it actually says. >> I have not noticed AFRINIC staff referring to this section as prohibiting >> leasing, but perhaps >> their reference escaped me at some point. >> >> It does not need to be specifically permitted. That which is not >> prohibited is permitted implicitly. >> >> > ...permitted where? > > Have you tried to put Bylaws+RSA+CPM together? > > Please try, then come back with your results. > > > Unless there is an explicit requirement in the CPM that hosts receive >> connectivity services from >> the same provider which provides their addresses, then independent >> assignment is inherently >> permitted and this is the current state. >> >> > ...the current course is otherwise, and you know it. > > Again, when there is an established RIR, to serve LIRs and End-Users > within its own service region... > it's by definition the responsibility of the latters to > serve their local end-users, if applicable...i'm ready > to agree if you point me to any section of the CPM, > the Bylaws or the RSA where it's clearly stated that > AfriNIC shall allocate/assign INRs to GIRs (*Global* Internet Registries) > or *Global* End-Users. > > As long as there is no mention of the existence of > GIRs within the AfriNIC service region, you shall > understand that out-of-region assignments or > sub-allocations could not be the normal trend... > > ...i'm awaiting :-/ > > > >> I hope you now understand the difference between a reservation (holding >> unused addresses, >> > > > You expect me to understand what? > > ...please see above and get my answer from there. > > > >> such as what Seacom and many others are doing) vs. providing addresses >> that are actually >> in use, but not simultaneously providing transit or transport services. >> >> > ...don't mix problems, do fill your complain > appropriately, please, and the community > shall address it usual. > > Thanks to stop your divertion! but you are free > to continue to support some wrong doings... > > Have a blessed monday! > > Shalom, > --sb. > > > >> Owen >> >> >> Shalom, >> --sb. >> >> >>> >>> Or wait... I can not find this so-called LIR *Cloud Innovation Limited* with >>>> offices in Seychelles using this BGP tool. >>>> >>>> >>>> *https://bgp.he.net/country/SC * >>>> >>> >>> And? >>> >> [...] >>> >> >> > > -- > -- > > Best Regards ! > __ > baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]| > Subscribe to Mailing List: > > __ > #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|#?Romains15?:33?Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec > vous tous! ?#?Amen?!? > ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement? > ?Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire > apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!?(#Psaumes42:2) > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Tue Aug 3 07:03:31 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2021 00:03:31 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments In-Reply-To: <4219899.9vmVNn7lDy@coffee-bar> References: <66199.1627863590@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <4219899.9vmVNn7lDy@coffee-bar> Message-ID: <717754EC-6E46-4628-820D-CFE64B3E9CE9@delong.com> The fact that Patrice chose not to print it when he paraphrased my remarks does not mean that I did not disclose it to him. You are mistaken in believing that I concealed it or did not tell him. Perhaps you should ask him yourself why he did not disclose that CI is one of my consulting clients, which is exactly what I told him. Owen > On Aug 2, 2021, at 23:30 , Ish Sookun wrote: > > Hi Owen, > > On Tuesday, 3 August 2021 07:38:35 +04 Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss > wrote: >> Under such a circumstance, with so many customers and the company?s >> reputation on the line, the decision was made (well above my pay grade) >> that it was necessary to pursue legal remedies to protect the company from >> AFRINIC?s unreasonable actions. > > Don't you think you forgot to mention your affiliation with CI when addressing > to the journalist of D?fimedia newspaper [1] (Mauritius)? I refer to your > statement: > > ? Le consultant am?ricain et sp?cialiste d?internet, Owen DeLong a > ?galement souhait? r?agir. Il prend position en faveur de Cloud > Innovation. Dans un courriel adress? au D?fi Plus [...] Owen DeLong > estime lui aussi que Cloud Innovation est dans son bon droit. ? > > Don't you think this piece of information was important to the readers, that > you are on CI payroll and not an independent American consultant & Internet > specialist saying that CI is right? > > Regards, > > -- > Ish Sookun > > [1] https://defimedia.info/litige-qui-menace-internet-laccusateur-contredit-afrinic > > > From rfg at tristatelogic.com Tue Aug 3 07:18:51 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2021 00:18:51 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <72093.1627975131@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In message , Owen DeLong wrote: >Under such a circumstance, with so many customers and the company's >reputation on the >line, the decision was made (well above my pay grade) that it was >necessary to pursue >legal remedies to protect the company from AFRINIC's >unreasonable actions. I see. And who made the decision that the alleged damages incurred could be reasonably valued at $1.8 BILLION dollars USD? And on what was that figure based, exactly? >> What is happening right now is instead an attempt at a corporate coup, >> and a hostile takeover, all engineered by one company and by one man. > >I'm pretty sure that Lu has no desire to own AFRINIC or take >over its operations. Regardless of his wishes, if he wins his judgement for $1.8 billion USD, he -will- surely end up owning all of AFRINIC, lock, stock, and barrel. Indeed, unless the asset freeze is reversed in short order, Lu *will* end up owning all of AFRINIC by default, if for no other reason, then at least because AFRINIC will have exactly -zero- Mauritian rupees available to pay lawyers to continue to represent AFRINIC in court. >Indeed, we have repeatedly expressed our interest and willingness to >accept a reasonable settlement offer from AFRINIC. Define "reasonable". I am prepared to offer a certified cashier's check in the amount of $5,000 USD, drawn from my own personal funds, for Cloud Innovation to go away and for it to seek its fortunes and its IP address resources elsewhere. Does Lu have a counter-offer? Or is his "willingness to accept a reasonable settlement offer" just more bovine excrement? >> This is the very opposite of democracy. > >This has nothing to do with democracy, this is business. AFRINIC >threatened to violate >the terms of our contract... Which terms, exactly? Be specific or else have the intellectual honesty to admit that Cloud Innovation has no case, and that it is just making trouble because it can... because it hired an exceptionally clever international "offshore" law firm, Appleby, of some noted repute[1], which then in turn somehow managed to persuade some naive member of the judiciary of Mauritius... EX PARTE... that there was some non-zero probability that the whole of AFRINIC might suddenly pull up stakes and disappear into the night, taking all of its funds with it, even though the company has been ongoing and established in Mauritius for some 17 years and even though it has desks, chairs, phones, office space, servers, internet connections, and an onsite staff in Mauritius of over 25 souls. You and I both know that no such judicial order would ever have been issued by any U.S. court, and that before any asset freeze of a kind that would necessarily -cripple- literally -any- organization, any U.S. courts would first give at least -some- consideration to the question of whether or not the funds being frozen were or were not actually a plausible flight risk.... which in the case of AFRINIC's funds, they clearly are not. If this is the Mauritian government's idea of how to retract and retain more international investment to the island, then I would respectfully suggest to the good citizens of Mauritius that they replace their current Minister of Industrial Development, their current Minister of Commerce, and their current Minister of Finance with the Three Stooges, because those gentlemen would surely do a better job of representing the interests of the local populace than whoever is overseeing this present judical farce... a farce whose unavoidable and obvious effect will be to scare the living bejesus out of any businessman, anywhere in the world, who might have been considering investing even a single rupee in Mauritius. The international press has so far taken little notice of the absurdities going on here. This will likely not remain the case for much longer. Lunacy at this level makes for good copy. Regards, rfg [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appleby_(law_firm)#Paradise_Papers From Boubakar.Barry at wacren.net Tue Aug 3 07:51:20 2021 From: Boubakar.Barry at wacren.net (Boubakar Barry) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2021 07:51:20 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Joint statement on the current AFRINIC situation from the African Regional RENs Message-ID: Dear All, On behalf of the three African regional RENs, please find attached our joint statement on the current situation at AFRINIC. It says:: --- ASREN, UbuntuNet Alliance and WACREN are the regional research and education networks interconnecting national research and education networks (NRENs) across the continent (Northern Africa, Eastern and Southern Africa, West and Central Africa). African RENs provide connectivity and other services to millions of end users in the education and research community (students, faculty, researchers, administrators, etc.), and INRs are critical for the delivery of these services. The REN community is following with interest but also with concern the heated debate on the current lawsuit against AFRINIC that led to the freezing of its bank accounts, thus jeopardizing its operations. Many years ago, members of the REN community expressed concerns about a risk for AFRINIC, when a resource member publicly said that AFRINIC will face bankruptcy if it dares consider reclaiming resources that many members thought were assigned wrongly, or at least were not used as initially indicated. It was, at that time, recommended to address this issue seriously. And here we are. Anyway: the current situation is very serious and our community and the friends of the African Internet community should stand together and fight against those who want to destroy and bury AFRINIC. Yes, there are things to improve at AFRINIC. But in this critical situation, we urge all to stand by and support the Board and Management of our organization. We say no to any attempt to move the management of Internet number resources attributed to Africa to any other organization. Therefore, we, as representatives of the African REN community, express our full support to AFRINIC Board and Management and invite all Africans and friends of Africa to do the same. Signed: For ASREN (www.asrenorg.net): Dr. Yousef Torman, Co-MD For Ubuntunet Alliance (www.ubuntunet.net): Dr. Matthews Mtumbuka, CEO For WACREN (www.wacren.net): Dr. Boubakar Barry, CEO ________________________________________________________________ Best wishes, Boubakar Barry -- CEO/Directeur G?n?ral, WACREN Web: http://www.wacren.net ***Keep it simple, as simple as possible, but not simpler. (A. Einstein)*** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: African RRENs Statement on AfriNIC - August 2021.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 101852 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ish.sookun at lasentinelle.mu Tue Aug 3 07:58:40 2021 From: ish.sookun at lasentinelle.mu (Ish Sookun) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2021 11:58:40 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments In-Reply-To: <717754EC-6E46-4628-820D-CFE64B3E9CE9@delong.com> References: <66199.1627863590@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <4219899.9vmVNn7lDy@coffee-bar> <717754EC-6E46-4628-820D-CFE64B3E9CE9@delong.com> Message-ID: <2925620.dadKe6YdsW@coffee-bar> Hi Patrice, I am looping you in a discussion thread on the AFRINIC mailing list [1] which has a public archive. As per Owen Delong's below statement, it seems that he didn't conceal that he is a consultant for Cloud Innovation Ltd and that you ? perhaps ? chose not to print that information in the D?fimedia [1] article. For the sake of transparency, can you tell us whether Owen's professional relationship with Cloud Innovation Ltd was disclosed to you or not? Regards, -- Ish Sookun [1] https://defimedia.info/litige-qui-menace-internet-laccusateur-contredit-afrinic On Tuesday, 3 August 2021 11:03:31 +04 Owen DeLong wrote: > The fact that Patrice chose not to print it when he paraphrased my remarks > does not mean that I did not disclose it to him. > > You are mistaken in believing that I concealed it or did not tell him. > Perhaps you should ask him yourself why he did not disclose that CI is one > of my consulting clients, which is exactly what I told him. > > Owen > > > On Aug 2, 2021, at 23:30 , Ish Sookun wrote: > > > > Hi Owen, > > > > On Tuesday, 3 August 2021 07:38:35 +04 Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss > > > > wrote: > >> Under such a circumstance, with so many customers and the company?s > >> reputation on the line, the decision was made (well above my pay grade) > >> that it was necessary to pursue legal remedies to protect the company > >> from > >> AFRINIC?s unreasonable actions. > > > > Don't you think you forgot to mention your affiliation with CI when > > addressing to the journalist of D?fimedia newspaper [1] (Mauritius)? I > > refer to your> > > statement: > > ? Le consultant am?ricain et sp?cialiste d?internet, Owen DeLong a > > > > ?galement souhait? r?agir. Il prend position en faveur de Cloud > > Innovation. Dans un courriel adress? au D?fi Plus [...] Owen DeLong > > estime lui aussi que Cloud Innovation est dans son bon droit. ? > > > > Don't you think this piece of information was important to the readers, > > that you are on CI payroll and not an independent American consultant & > > Internet specialist saying that CI is right? > > > > Regards, > > > > -- > > Ish Sookun > > > > [1] https://defimedia.info/litige-qui-menace-internet-laccusateur-contredit-afrinic From hjul.paul at gmail.com Tue Aug 3 08:15:34 2021 From: hjul.paul at gmail.com (Paul Hjul) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2021 10:15:34 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments Message-ID: Only because the remark responded to is a repetition of something profoundly wrong that keeps getting repeated > You and I both know that no such judicial order would ever have been > issued by any U.S. court, take it you have not read *United States ex rel. Rahman v. Oncology Assocs.*, 198 F.3d 489 (4th Cir. 1999) or regard New York, California and Texas as not being within the set "any U.S. court" Even Afrinic is admitting that the relief of a Mareva Injunction is not a peculiar feature of Mauritius's legal system. There are many courts where arriving at a return hearing with one of your legal representatives missing and the organization being in default of an order made and properly served would see the CEO in pretty deep hot water if not a Turkish jail. The only reason the restraint "threatens" the existence of the organization is because the organizations finances have not been arranged in a proper way. You need to ask the most recent chairperson of the finance committee of the organization why that is. Rather than looking to change jurisdictions for Afrinic get rid of some dangerous dead wood inside the organization I am also increasingly suspecting that a language or numbering conversion error and that the amount of 1.8 billion dollars is an urban legend. This is in part because you don't secure assets of 50 million dollars to cover a claim of 1800 million dollars. 180 million dollars makes sense as representing a prevailing anticipated market rate of 30 USD on 6 million addresses. This would mean that a reasonable offer on the claimed basis could be as low as 80 million USD -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Tue Aug 3 08:40:25 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2021 11:40:25 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments In-Reply-To: <72093.1627975131@segfault.tristatelogic.com> References: <72093.1627975131@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 3 Aug 2021, 10:23 Ronald F. Guilmette, wrote: > In message , > Owen DeLong wrote: > > > The international press has so far taken little notice of the absurdities > going on here. This will likely not remain the case for much longer. > Lunacy at this level makes for good copy. Larry Madowo formerly BBC and CNN International correspondent would take a keen interest in this story. Indeed its just a matter of time. Cheers Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.wollner at africaoncloud.net Tue Aug 3 09:33:34 2021 From: paul.wollner at africaoncloud.net (Paul Wollner) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2021 11:33:34 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Unaddressed queries by AFRINIC during AGMM In-Reply-To: <17a672d13a0.10544ab7440171.7359974942069971130@africaoncloud.net> References: <4424CF11-A39B-4659-8E07-FE28BE9E3E4A@afrinic.net> <17a672d13a0.10544ab7440171.7359974942069971130@africaoncloud.net> Message-ID: <17b0b5c781f.feab0f49943593.898979880842633625@africaoncloud.net> Dear AFRINIC, It has been just over a month now since the mail below was sent and I feel that we still do not have any direct answer on the 4 questions that were raised. Can we please get a clearcut answer from AFRINIC on these questions? Regards Paul Wollner ---- On Fri, 02 Jul 2021 14:24:05 +0200 Paul Wollner wrote ---- Mr. Kayihura, I refer to your email dated 30 June 2021. In it, you claim that Questions 1 to 3 were addressed during the open mic session held on 4 June 2021. The reality is that none of those questions were satisfactorily answered. They were addressed to the extent that the questions were acknowledged, then an attempt was made to obfuscate them and answer different questions while pretending to answer the questions asked, then a claim was made that the questions would be answered at a later date. In reality, no such answer has been forthcoming from AFRINIC. We recognize that these questions are likely inconvenient and come at what is almost certainly an inopportune time to be asking. Nonetheless, these are valid questions and as a resource member, we feel that we are being held at unfair disadvantage if AFRINIC will not provide a clear and direct answer to each of the questions about how it interprets policies in these areas. There?s too much at stake to allow AFRINIC staff to simply make it up as they go a long. We need a public commitment to the official interpretation of these areas of potential ambiguity in the current policy regime. As to the fourth item, while it is not our intent to micro-manage AFRINIC staff decisions, it is our conclusion that even if Madhvi did not actively participate in the fraudulent resource registrations and embezzlement, she surely must have either turned a blind eye (aiding and abetting) or she failed to notice it which at best displays a level of incompetence and failure to meet her duty of care in such a position. In summary, we renew our request for factual, reliable, direct answers to each of the queries and request that AFRINIC eschew further obfuscation and sophistry in the process. Thank you. Paul Wollner ---- On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 13:04:19 +0200 Eddy Kayihura wrote ---- Mr Wollner, I refer to your email dated 24 June 2021. Questions 1 to 3 were addressed during the open mic session held on 4 June 2021 and we undertook an action to organise a webinar within 2 months to discuss with the community the definition of ?need-based? in the AFRINIC policies and bylaws. We are delighted to see that the discussion amongst the community has already started. Regarding question 4, we cannot penalise a staff member unless we find concrete proof of their involvement in the misappropriation of the IP resources. As of now, we do not have such evidence on any of AFRINIC?s current staff members. The appropriate channel for such inquiry or complaint is to submit it via our https://afrinic.net/whistleblowing platform.? Regards, Eddy Kayihura Chief Executive Officer, African Network Information Centre (AFRINIC) ????????????????????. M. Wollner, Je me r?f?re ? votre courriel du 24 juin 2021. Les questions 1 ? 3 ont ?t? abord?es lors de la session 'open mic' qui s'est tenue le 4 juin 2021 et nous avons entrepris une action visant ? organiser un webinaire dans un d?lai de 2 mois afin de discuter avec la communaut? de la d?finition de "need-based" dans les politiques et les statuts d'AFRINIC. Nous sommes ravis de voir que la discussion au sein de la communaut? a d?j? commenc?. En ce qui concerne la question 4, nous ne pouvons pas p?naliser un membre du personnel ? moins de trouver des preuves concr?tes de son implication dans la manipulation non autoris?e des ressources IP. A ce jour, nous n'avons pas de telles preuves sur aucun des membres actuels du personnel d'AFRINIC. Le canal appropri? pour une telle requ?te ou plainte est de la soumettre via notre plateforme de https://afrinic.net/whistleblowing. Cordialement, Eddy Kayihura Directeur g?n?ral, African Network Information Centre (AFRINIC) _______________________________________________ RPD mailing list mailto:RPD at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd _______________________________________________ RPD mailing list RPD at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rfg at tristatelogic.com Tue Aug 3 09:38:40 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2021 02:38:40 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Correction to my previous email In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <72583.1627983520@segfault.tristatelogic.com> I'm not going to go line-by-line and point out all of the falacies and logical inconsistancies contained within all 700+ lines of Paul Hjul's inadequate attempts to refute what I have previously noted about his errors in calling AFRINIC and the AFRINIC community "xenophobic" and a "litigious environment". I'm not going to do that primarily because it is a a waste of time -- because no one is at at all likely to read his 700+ lines or my detailed refutation thereof. Instead I'll just respond, briefly, to Paul's continued insistance that AFRINIC has created a "litigious environment". As evidence for this theory, Paul cites the following four points. As noted below, I actually agree with him on the first of these four points (and I will reveal some relevant info that has not yet appeared in the press) but I feel that Paul's other three arguments are utter rubbish, as noted below. > * Afrinic's legal advisors telling members that if they are unhappy to sue I am in complete agreement that this public statement on the part of Ashok, which has now been reported to me by numerous sources, should have resulted in Ashok's termination as a representative of AFRINIC by the Board at the time, and certainly within no more that 15 minutes, at most, after he made it, and that his childish outburst, even though it occurred many years ago now, *still* and to this day warrants Ashok's immediate termination by AFRINIC. With respect to this one exceptionally unfortunate episode, which happpened many years and two CEO's ago now, and under a different Board than the present one, Paul is arguably correct that AFRINIC took a distinctly and unforgivably "litigious" position. The Board at the time should have fired Ashok's ass for this confrontational and unhelpful little outburst, and the current Board should do so now without further delay. Unfortunately, neither the Board at the time, nor any subsequent ones have had the necessary backbone to rid the organization of this pernicious and counterproductive staff member... undoubtedly the same one who drafted and forced everyone, even Board members, to sign the all-smothering NDAs under which the current Board and staff still labor, and which apparently renders even Board and staff visits to the restrooms a matter of state secret, the divulging of which can be punished by some colossal Breach of Contract lawsuit, courtesy of Ashok's firm, no doubt, and most probably at his usual hourly rate, because you know, non-profit or not, he doesn't work for nothing. As if his other destructive influences on AFRINIC, as cited above, were not enough, it has now been confirmed to me by multiple independent sources that Ashok worked as counsel for AFRINIC in its early days, and then went to work, briefly, for Lu Heng... a counterparty to AFRINIC in certain ongoing negotiations at the time... and then went back to work for AFRINIC. To say that this sequence of events, which has been reported to me now by multiple reliable and knowledgable sources, almost defies belief would be an understatement. Ashok's personal "revolving door" which saw him go from regulator to regulated and then back again, is and was, I believe, more than sufficient grounds, not only for his aburpt and instantaneous termination as legal counsel for AFRINIC, but for AFRINIC to file a formal ethics complaint about Ashok with the Mauritius Bar Association for his clever little two-step. Not to put too fine a point on it, the AFRINIC Board at the time of these events was clearly unable to muster the outrange necessary to fire Ashok's ass for any or all of these evident lapses of judgement and ethics. Meanwhile the CEO at the time also demurred from the task of firing Ashok's ass, perhaps because he had a multitude of his own set of ethical issues and lapses, and he perhaps found Ashok's continued presence helpful: https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/390378-afrinic-hired-a-convicted-criminal-to-look-after-valuable-it-assets.html Now on to Paul's 3 other arguments in support of the proposition that AFRINIC has created a "litigious environment"... all of which can be easily seen to be utter rubbish. > * Neglecting to include dispute resolution clauses in the RSA. Why should they have done that? Is "dispute resolution" a standard part of all of the other RSAs in all of the other regions? If so, then the blame for this omission once again lies at the feet of Ashok, and only Ashok. If the other RIRs have incorporated dispute resolution clauses into their standard RSA contracts, and if Ashok never even bothered to look at what any of the other RIRs have done, then it doesn't make the whole AFRINIC organization a "litigious environment". It just makes Ashok a really crappy lawyer. And THAT is an eminently fixable problem. For all of the reasons above, and perhaps for this one too, AFRINIC should fire his ass. Not like after a grace period. Yesterday. In any case, it is up to the resource members to actually *read* the contracts they are signing and to suggest changes if changes are needed BEFORE THEY SIGN, and not eight years after they have done so. If Lu Heng didn't comprehend what he was signing, that hardly makes AFRINIC into a "litigious environment". And if he either needed or wanted dispute resolution clauses, then why didn't he ask for those eight years ago? Lu is like the guy who gets diagnosed with terminal cancer and who -then- rushes out to buy as much life insurance as he possibly can. Sorry. No. Thanks for playing, but that's not actually how any of this works. > * Acting in a manner in which a reasonable court could conclude that the > organization did not afford natural justice. Where may I find the tenets of this "natural justice" you sspeak of codified in writing Paul? Is that something that you just made up, or are you referring to the United Nation's Universal Declaration of Human Rights? If the latter, I've looked in there and I can't find anything that refers at all to globally routable, non-RFC-reserved IPv4 addresses. > * Invoking a termination to a contract when this act could represent a breach "Could represent a breach"?? OK, as long as you are playing attorney Paul, please point me at the specific clause within the RSA that says that AFRINIC terminating the RSA contract *does* in fact represent a Breach of Contract on the part of AFRINIC. No hurry. I'll wait. Regards, rfg From jean-baptiste.millogo at orange.com Tue Aug 3 09:42:15 2021 From: jean-baptiste.millogo at orange.com (jean-baptiste.millogo at orange.com) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2021 09:42:15 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Joint statement on the current AFRINIC situation from the African Regional RENs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <29851_1627983761_61090F91_29851_139_1_e9aabb1b82fa4527929964b299ba7e9c@OKEXGMBX03.ocitnetad.ci> Well done RENs teams. De : Boubakar Barry [mailto:Boubakar.Barry at wacren.net] Envoy? : mardi 3 ao?t 2021 07:51 ? : Community Discuss Objet : [Community-Discuss] Joint statement on the current AFRINIC situation from the African Regional RENs Dear All, On behalf of the three African regional RENs, please find attached our joint statement on the current situation at AFRINIC. It says:: --- ASREN, UbuntuNet Alliance and WACREN are the regional research and education networks interconnecting national research and education networks (NRENs) across the continent (Northern Africa, Eastern and Southern Africa, West and Central Africa). African RENs provide connectivity and other services to millions of end users in the education and research community (students, faculty, researchers, administrators, etc.), and INRs are critical for the delivery of these services. The REN community is following with interest but also with concern the heated debate on the current lawsuit against AFRINIC that led to the freezing of its bank accounts, thus jeopardizing its operations. Many years ago, members of the REN community expressed concerns about a risk for AFRINIC, when a resource member publicly said that AFRINIC will face bankruptcy if it dares consider reclaiming resources that many members thought were assigned wrongly, or at least were not used as initially indicated. It was, at that time, recommended to address this issue seriously. And here we are. Anyway: the current situation is very serious and our community and the friends of the African Internet community should stand together and fight against those who want to destroy and bury AFRINIC. Yes, there are things to improve at AFRINIC. But in this critical situation, we urge all to stand by and support the Board and Management of our organization. We say no to any attempt to move the management of Internet number resources attributed to Africa to any other organization. Therefore, we, as representatives of the African REN community, express our full support to AFRINIC Board and Management and invite all Africans and friends of Africa to do the same. Signed: For ASREN (www.asrenorg.net): Dr. Yousef Torman, Co-MD For Ubuntunet Alliance (www.ubuntunet.net): Dr. Matthews Mtumbuka, CEO For WACREN (www.wacren.net): Dr. Boubakar Barry, CEO ________________________________________________________________ Best wishes, Boubakar Barry -- CEO/Directeur G?n?ral, WACREN Web: http://www.wacren.net ***Keep it simple, as simple as possible, but not simpler. (A. Einstein)*** _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rfg at tristatelogic.com Tue Aug 3 09:53:12 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2021 02:53:12 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <72643.1627984392@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In message Paul Hjul wrote: >> You and I both know that no such judicial order would ever have been >> issued by any U.S. court, > > > take it you have not read *United States ex rel. Rahman v. Oncology >Assocs.*, 198 F.3d 489 (4th Cir. 1999) C'mon Paul. Get serious. The facts of that case were TOTALLY different and in that case the court considered and reasonably found that Defendant was actively engaged in trying to hide assets: https://casetext.com/case/us-ex-rel-rahman-v-oncology-associates-2 "The district court entered a pre-judgment, asset-freezing injunction on the United States' allegations that the defendant oncology service providers defrauded the Medicare and CHAMPUS programs and thereafter were engaging in complex reorganizations and transfers of assets to insulate themselves from liability." Show me where AFRINIC took *any* action to in any way remove any of its bank assets or to place any of them in any place outside of the jurisdiction of, or beyond the control of the court. You can't, because it didn't happen. >The only reason the restraint "threatens" the >existence of the organization is because the organizations finances have >not been arranged in a proper way. That is also bullshit. >I am also increasingly suspecting that a language or numbering conversion >error and that the amount of 1.8 billion dollars is an urban legend. Suspect whatever you like. Some people are possessed of the facts, even if you have failed to adequately acquaint yourself with them. Regards, rfg From lamiaachnayti at gmail.com Tue Aug 3 10:03:46 2021 From: lamiaachnayti at gmail.com (Lamiaa Chnayti) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2021 11:03:46 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Unaddressed queries by AFRINIC during AGMM In-Reply-To: <17b0b5c781f.feab0f49943593.898979880842633625@africaoncloud.net> References: <4424CF11-A39B-4659-8E07-FE28BE9E3E4A@afrinic.net> <17a672d13a0.10544ab7440171.7359974942069971130@africaoncloud.net> <17b0b5c781f.feab0f49943593.898979880842633625@africaoncloud.net> Message-ID: +1 Paul. I hope the above gets addressed as soon as possible. Best regards, Lamiaa Le mar. 3 ao?t 2021 ? 10:34, Paul Wollner a ?crit : > Dear AFRINIC, > > It has been just over a month now since the mail below was sent and I feel > that we still do not have any direct answer on the 4 questions that were > raised. > > Can we please get a clearcut answer from AFRINIC on these questions? > > Regards > Paul Wollner > > > > > ---- On Fri, 02 Jul 2021 14:24:05 +0200 *Paul Wollner > >* wrote > ---- > > Mr. Kayihura, > > I refer to your email dated 30 June 2021. > > In it, you claim that Questions 1 to 3 were addressed during the open mic > session held on 4 June 2021. > > The reality is that none of those questions were satisfactorily answered. > They were addressed to the extent that the questions were acknowledged, > then an attempt was made to obfuscate them and answer different questions > while pretending to answer the questions asked, then a claim was made that > the questions would be answered at a later date. > > In reality, no such answer has been forthcoming from AFRINIC. We recognize > that these questions are likely inconvenient and come at what is almost > certainly an inopportune time to be asking. Nonetheless, these are valid > questions and as a resource member, we feel that we are being held at > unfair disadvantage if AFRINIC will not provide a clear and direct answer > to each of the questions about how it interprets policies in these areas. > > There?s too much at stake to allow AFRINIC staff to simply make it up as > they go a long. We need a public commitment to the official interpretation > of these areas of potential ambiguity in the current policy regime. > > As to the fourth item, while it is not our intent to micro-manage AFRINIC > staff decisions, it is our conclusion that even if Madhvi did not actively > participate in the fraudulent resource registrations and embezzlement, she > surely must have either turned a blind eye (aiding and abetting) or she > failed to notice it which at best displays a level of incompetence and > failure to meet her duty of care in such a position. > > In summary, we renew our request for factual, reliable, direct answers to > each of the queries and request that AFRINIC eschew further obfuscation and > sophistry in the process. > > Thank you. > > Paul Wollner > > > > > > ---- On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 13:04:19 +0200 *Eddy Kayihura >* wrote ---- > > Mr Wollner, > > I refer to your email dated 24 June 2021. > > Questions 1 to 3 were addressed during the open mic session held on 4 June > 2021 and we undertook an action to organise a webinar within 2 months to > discuss with the community the definition of ?need-based? in the AFRINIC > policies and bylaws. > > We are delighted to see that the discussion amongst the community has > already started. > > Regarding question 4, we cannot penalise a staff member unless we find > concrete proof of their involvement in the misappropriation of the IP > resources. As of now, we do not have such evidence on any of AFRINIC?s > current staff members. > > The appropriate channel for such inquiry or complaint is to submit it via > our *Whistleblowing* platform. > > Regards, > > Eddy Kayihura > Chief Executive Officer, > African Network Information Centre (AFRINIC) > > ????????????????????. > > M. Wollner, > > Je me r?f?re ? votre courriel du 24 juin 2021. > > Les questions 1 ? 3 ont ?t? abord?es lors de la session 'open mic' qui > s'est tenue le 4 juin 2021 et nous avons entrepris une action visant ? > organiser un webinaire dans un d?lai de 2 mois afin de discuter avec la > communaut? de la d?finition de "need-based" dans les politiques et les > statuts d'AFRINIC. > > Nous sommes ravis de voir que la discussion au sein de la communaut? a > d?j? commenc?. > > En ce qui concerne la question 4, nous ne pouvons pas p?naliser un membre > du personnel ? moins de trouver des preuves concr?tes de son implication > dans la manipulation non autoris?e des ressources IP. A ce jour, nous > n'avons pas de telles preuves sur aucun des membres actuels du personnel > d'AFRINIC. > > Le canal appropri? pour une telle requ?te ou plainte est de la soumettre > via notre plateforme de *whistleblowing* > . > > Cordialement, > Eddy Kayihura > Directeur g?n?ral, > African Network Information Centre (AFRINIC) > > _______________________________________________ > RPD mailing list > RPD at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd > > > > _______________________________________________ > RPD mailing list > RPD at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd > > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -- Lamiaa CHNAYTI -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ish.sookun at lasentinelle.mu Tue Aug 3 11:17:30 2021 From: ish.sookun at lasentinelle.mu (Ish Sookun) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2021 15:17:30 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments In-Reply-To: References: <66199.1627863590@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <2925620.dadKe6YdsW@coffee-bar> Message-ID: <1936995.904fYiJVhz@coffee-bar> Hi Patrice, Thank you. Indeed, your reply helps and it is appreciated. Cheers, -- Ish Sookun On Tuesday, 3 August 2021 14:54:45 +04 Patrice Donzelot wrote: > Hi Ish > > As M. Delong mentioned, he told me CI is his company's client. But it was > not mentioned in the first email I got. In a reply, I ask him which > relation he has with CI. I hope it helps. > > Regards > Patrice Donzelot > patrice at defimedia.info > (+230)57864142 / (+230)2070666 > > ________________________________ > From: Ish Sookun > Sent: Tuesday, 3 August 2021, 11:58 > To: Owen DeLong > Cc: Patrice Donzelot; Community Discuss > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent > AFRINIC developments > > Hi Patrice, > > I am looping you in a discussion thread on the AFRINIC mailing list [1] > which has a public archive. > > As per Owen Delong's below statement, it seems that he didn't conceal that > he is a consultant for Cloud Innovation Ltd and that you ? perhaps ? chose > not to print that information in the D?fimedia [1] article. > > For the sake of transparency, can you tell us whether Owen's professional > relationship with Cloud Innovation Ltd was disclosed to you or not? > > Regards, > > -- > Ish Sookun > > [1] https://defimedia.info/litige-qui-menace-internet-laccusateur-contredit-afrinic > > On Tuesday, 3 August 2021 11:03:31 +04 Owen DeLong wrote: > > The fact that Patrice chose not to print it when he paraphrased my remarks > > does not mean that I did not disclose it to him. > > > > You are mistaken in believing that I concealed it or did not tell him. > > Perhaps you should ask him yourself why he did not disclose that CI is one > > of my consulting clients, which is exactly what I told him. > > > > Owen > > > > > On Aug 2, 2021, at 23:30 , Ish Sookun > > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi Owen, > > > > > > On Tuesday, 3 August 2021 07:38:35 +04 Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss > > > > > > wrote: > > >> Under such a circumstance, with so many customers and the company?s > > >> reputation on the line, the decision was made (well above my pay grade) > > >> that it was necessary to pursue legal remedies to protect the company > > >> from > > >> AFRINIC?s unreasonable actions. > > > > > > Don't you think you forgot to mention your affiliation with CI when > > > addressing to the journalist of D?fimedia newspaper [1] (Mauritius)? I > > > refer to your> > > > > > > statement: > > > ? Le consultant am?ricain et sp?cialiste d?internet, Owen DeLong a > > > > > > ?galement souhait? r?agir. Il prend position en faveur de Cloud > > > Innovation. Dans un courriel adress? au D?fi Plus [...] Owen DeLong > > > estime lui aussi que Cloud Innovation est dans son bon droit. ? > > > > > > Don't you think this piece of information was important to the readers, > > > that you are on CI payroll and not an independent American consultant & > > > Internet specialist saying that CI is right? > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > -- > > > Ish Sookun > > > > > > [1] https://defimedia.info/litige-qui-menace-internet-laccusateur-contredit-afrinic From Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net Tue Aug 3 11:33:18 2021 From: Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net (Omo Oaiya) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2021 12:33:18 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments In-Reply-To: <1936995.904fYiJVhz@coffee-bar> References: <66199.1627863590@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <2925620.dadKe6YdsW@coffee-bar> <1936995.904fYiJVhz@coffee-bar> Message-ID: Hello Patrice, My thanks too. I understand from your comment that Owen Delong did not volunteer this information. I have read the article. The fact that Owen did not disclose upfront that he was hired by Cloud Innovation makes his opinion less meaningful and suspect. Something you perhaps want to correct so you are not complicit in deceiving your readership. Best wishes, Omo On Tue, 3 Aug 2021 at 12:19, Ish Sookun wrote: > Hi Patrice, > > Thank you. Indeed, your reply helps and it is appreciated. > > Cheers, > > -- > Ish Sookun > > On Tuesday, 3 August 2021 14:54:45 +04 Patrice Donzelot wrote: > > Hi Ish > > > > As M. Delong mentioned, he told me CI is his company's client. But it was > > not mentioned in the first email I got. In a reply, I ask him which > > relation he has with CI. I hope it helps. > > > > Regards > > Patrice Donzelot > > patrice at defimedia.info > > (+230)57864142 / (+230)2070666 > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Ish Sookun > > Sent: Tuesday, 3 August 2021, 11:58 > > To: Owen DeLong > > Cc: Patrice Donzelot; Community Discuss > > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent > > AFRINIC developments > > > > Hi Patrice, > > > > I am looping you in a discussion thread on the AFRINIC mailing list [1] > > which has a public archive. > > > > As per Owen Delong's below statement, it seems that he didn't conceal > that > > he is a consultant for Cloud Innovation Ltd and that you ? perhaps ? > chose > > not to print that information in the D?fimedia [1] article. > > > > For the sake of transparency, can you tell us whether Owen's professional > > relationship with Cloud Innovation Ltd was disclosed to you or not? > > > > Regards, > > > > -- > > Ish Sookun > > > > [1] > https://defimedia.info/litige-qui-menace-internet-laccusateur-contredit-afrinic > > > > On Tuesday, 3 August 2021 11:03:31 +04 Owen DeLong wrote: > > > The fact that Patrice chose not to print it when he paraphrased my > remarks > > > does not mean that I did not disclose it to him. > > > > > > You are mistaken in believing that I concealed it or did not tell him. > > > Perhaps you should ask him yourself why he did not disclose that CI is > one > > > of my consulting clients, which is exactly what I told him. > > > > > > Owen > > > > > > > On Aug 2, 2021, at 23:30 , Ish Sookun > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Owen, > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, 3 August 2021 07:38:35 +04 Owen DeLong via > Community-Discuss > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > >> Under such a circumstance, with so many customers and the company?s > > > >> reputation on the line, the decision was made (well above my pay > grade) > > > >> that it was necessary to pursue legal remedies to protect the > company > > > >> from > > > >> AFRINIC?s unreasonable actions. > > > > > > > > Don't you think you forgot to mention your affiliation with CI when > > > > addressing to the journalist of D?fimedia newspaper [1] (Mauritius)? > I > > > > refer to your> > > > > > > > > statement: > > > > ? Le consultant am?ricain et sp?cialiste d?internet, Owen DeLong a > > > > > > > > ?galement souhait? r?agir. Il prend position en faveur de Cloud > > > > Innovation. Dans un courriel adress? au D?fi Plus [...] Owen > DeLong > > > > estime lui aussi que Cloud Innovation est dans son bon droit. ? > > > > > > > > Don't you think this piece of information was important to the > readers, > > > > that you are on CI payroll and not an independent American > consultant & > > > > Internet specialist saying that CI is right? > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Ish Sookun > > > > > > > > [1] > https://defimedia.info/litige-qui-menace-internet-laccusateur-contredit-afrinic > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From patrice at defimedia.info Tue Aug 3 10:54:45 2021 From: patrice at defimedia.info (Patrice Donzelot) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2021 10:54:45 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments In-Reply-To: <2925620.dadKe6YdsW@coffee-bar> References: <66199.1627863590@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <4219899.9vmVNn7lDy@coffee-bar> <717754EC-6E46-4628-820D-CFE64B3E9CE9@delong.com>, <2925620.dadKe6YdsW@coffee-bar> Message-ID: Hi Ish As M. Delong mentioned, he told me CI is his company's client. But it was not mentioned in the first email I got. In a reply, I ask him which relation he has with CI. I hope it helps. Regards Patrice Donzelot patrice at defimedia.info (+230)57864142 / (+230)2070666 ________________________________ From: Ish Sookun Sent: Tuesday, 3 August 2021, 11:58 To: Owen DeLong Cc: Patrice Donzelot; Community Discuss Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments Hi Patrice, I am looping you in a discussion thread on the AFRINIC mailing list [1] which has a public archive. As per Owen Delong's below statement, it seems that he didn't conceal that he is a consultant for Cloud Innovation Ltd and that you ? perhaps ? chose not to print that information in the D?fimedia [1] article. For the sake of transparency, can you tell us whether Owen's professional relationship with Cloud Innovation Ltd was disclosed to you or not? Regards, -- Ish Sookun [1] https://defimedia.info/litige-qui-menace-internet-laccusateur-contredit-afrinic On Tuesday, 3 August 2021 11:03:31 +04 Owen DeLong wrote: > The fact that Patrice chose not to print it when he paraphrased my remarks > does not mean that I did not disclose it to him. > > You are mistaken in believing that I concealed it or did not tell him. > Perhaps you should ask him yourself why he did not disclose that CI is one > of my consulting clients, which is exactly what I told him. > > Owen > > > On Aug 2, 2021, at 23:30 , Ish Sookun wrote: > > > > Hi Owen, > > > > On Tuesday, 3 August 2021 07:38:35 +04 Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss > > > > wrote: > >> Under such a circumstance, with so many customers and the company?s > >> reputation on the line, the decision was made (well above my pay grade) > >> that it was necessary to pursue legal remedies to protect the company > >> from > >> AFRINIC?s unreasonable actions. > > > > Don't you think you forgot to mention your affiliation with CI when > > addressing to the journalist of D?fimedia newspaper [1] (Mauritius)? I > > refer to your> > > statement: > > ? Le consultant am?ricain et sp?cialiste d?internet, Owen DeLong a > > > > ?galement souhait? r?agir. Il prend position en faveur de Cloud > > Innovation. Dans un courriel adress? au D?fi Plus [...] Owen DeLong > > estime lui aussi que Cloud Innovation est dans son bon droit. ? > > > > Don't you think this piece of information was important to the readers, > > that you are on CI payroll and not an independent American consultant & > > Internet specialist saying that CI is right? > > > > Regards, > > > > -- > > Ish Sookun > > > > [1] https://defimedia.info/litige-qui-menace-internet-laccusateur-contredit-afrinic -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yamadu at ug.edu.gh Tue Aug 3 12:54:24 2021 From: yamadu at ug.edu.gh (AMADU YUSIF) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2021 12:54:24 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Joint statement on the current AFRINIC situation from the African Regional RENs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Well, done REN. This is what we expect from likeminded community in support of AFRINIC no matter what the situation is. We are Africans and must protect what is ours not transferring your resources to different region/Network. We must fight together and together we shall win. Yusif Amadu eLearning Unit University of Ghana Computing Systems University of Ghana Cell: +233244659245 Skype: kooissi ________________________________ From: Boubakar Barry Sent: Monday, August 2, 2021 10:51 PM To: Community Discuss Subject: [Community-Discuss] Joint statement on the current AFRINIC situation from the African Regional RENs Dear All, On behalf of the three African regional RENs, please find attached our joint statement on the current situation at AFRINIC. It says:: --- ASREN, UbuntuNet Alliance and WACREN are the regional research and education networks interconnecting national research and education networks (NRENs) across the continent (Northern Africa, Eastern and Southern Africa, West and Central Africa). African RENs provide connectivity and other services to millions of end users in the education and research community (students, faculty, researchers, administrators, etc.), and INRs are critical for the delivery of these services. The REN community is following with interest but also with concern the heated debate on the current lawsuit against AFRINIC that led to the freezing of its bank accounts, thus jeopardizing its operations. Many years ago, members of the REN community expressed concerns about a risk for AFRINIC, when a resource member publicly said that AFRINIC will face bankruptcy if it dares consider reclaiming resources that many members thought were assigned wrongly, or at least were not used as initially indicated. It was, at that time, recommended to address this issue seriously. And here we are. Anyway: the current situation is very serious and our community and the friends of the African Internet community should stand together and fight against those who want to destroy and bury AFRINIC. Yes, there are things to improve at AFRINIC. But in this critical situation, we urge all to stand by and support the Board and Management of our organization. We say no to any attempt to move the management of Internet number resources attributed to Africa to any other organization. Therefore, we, as representatives of the African REN community, express our full support to AFRINIC Board and Management and invite all Africans and friends of Africa to do the same. Signed: For ASREN (www.asrenorg.net): Dr. Yousef Torman, Co-MD For Ubuntunet Alliance (www.ubuntunet.net): Dr. Matthews Mtumbuka, CEO For WACREN (www.wacren.net): Dr. Boubakar Barry, CEO ________________________________________________________________ Best wishes, Boubakar Barry -- CEO/Directeur G?n?ral, WACREN Web: http://www.wacren.net ***Keep it simple, as simple as possible, but not simpler. (A. Einstein)*** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chresgoro at gmail.com Tue Aug 3 13:50:03 2021 From: chresgoro at gmail.com (Christian Orozco) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2021 21:50:03 +0800 Subject: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments In-Reply-To: <66199.1627863590@segfault.tristatelogic.com> References: <66199.1627863590@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: Please refrain from this corporate coup narrative. There was a *violation *from AFRINIC. And when such a thing happens, consequences should be faced. It is as simple as that. Do note that the scale of this problem is no similar to a quarrel between two neighbors. It involves large organizations/entities whose responsibilities affect millions of users. What kind of good change will it bring if people will just tolerate similar violations? Regards, Christian On Mon, Aug 2, 2021 at 8:20 AM Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: > In message < > CAOacvLE1taPAUaZ0xJJk_cMYtMpPOdkpHGP7hdogV9WH+BU6Jw at mail.gmail.com> > Christian Orozco wrote: > > >Owen said, the CORRECTION of behavior is what's being sought. > > I also have many outstanding quarrels with AFRINIC and I also fervently > desire to see the organization's behavior be corrected. > > But I do not pursue these goals either at the point of a gun, or via a > $1.8 BILLION dollar lawsuit. I do not do so because the ends do not > justify the means, and I am a believer that change should be effected > via democratic means, despite how frustrating that kind of process may > be at times. > > What is happening right now is instead an attempt at a corporate coup, > and a hostile takeover, all engineered by one company and by one man. > > This is the very opposite of democracy. > > > Regards, > rfg > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chresgoro at gmail.com Tue Aug 3 13:51:03 2021 From: chresgoro at gmail.com (Christian Orozco) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2021 21:51:03 +0800 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: <66163.1627863029@segfault.tristatelogic.com> References: <66163.1627863029@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: Isn't there anything to have doubts about? In circumstances like this, I guess a better mindset would be to clarify that doubt. People are talking a lot about an issue not because they just want to campaign wrong information, but because they collectively want to find answers which they know they deserve to know. On a side note, thank you for pointing out the importance of the meeting on Wednesday. That will be very important for everyone. Regards, Christian On Mon, Aug 2, 2021 at 8:11 AM Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: > In message < > CAOacvLG0ynx5Je0uakqJ6C+xvvLnfHL5Jqf1jUxWzoWtiMG6MA at mail.gmail.com> > Christian Orozco wrote: > > >First of all, no one here wants AFRINIC to perish. > > I'm sorry, but you are just simply wrong about that. > > >Describing something as "shady" does not directly put one side into a > >bad light, it's just that > > Yes, it does, and that is intentional. > > >If only there is an urgency to > >inform everyone of AFRINIC's financial situation, then there will not be a > >point of doubt at all in the first place. > > You and other members of "Team Cloud Innovation" are *creating* the doubt. > > We have seen this here in the USA also. A few Republican politicians say > "People have doubts about the 2020 US election" and then some talking heads > on Fox News say "People have doubts about the 2020 US election" and then a > few more Republican politicians say "People have doubts about the 2020 US > election" and then some talking heads on Fox News say again "People have > doubts about the 2020 US election". > > Yes! It is true! Some people have doubts about the 2020 US election, > specifically because some people with clear motives CAUSED THEM to have > some doubts. > > It is still all "bovine excrement". > > In any case, we shall know on this coming Wednesday if all of these self- > serving claims that "The sky is falling!"[1] have any validity or if they > were all just parts of a coordinated disinformation campaign seeking to > sow doubt and thus stampede people, like cattle, into the false belief > that an imminent catastrophy is looming. > > It isn't infectious diseases that are contagious. So is panic and the > poor judgements that some with that. (And some people here seem to be > relying on that fact.) > > > Regards, > rfg > > > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henny_Penny > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rfg at tristatelogic.com Tue Aug 3 14:37:27 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2021 07:37:27 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Joint statement on the current AFRINIC situation from the African Regional RENs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <73927.1628001447@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In message , AMADU YUSIF wrote: >Well, done REN. This is what we expect from likeminded community in support >of AFRINIC no matter what the situation is. We are Africans and must protect >what is ours not transferring your resources to different region/Network. >We must fight together and together we shall win. I'm sorry to say it, but I don't believe that Africans know how to fight or win this battle. You are not really looking at what the other side is doing or how it is doing it, so you are not learning from their example. Several Internet organizations on the continent have come out with statements of support for AFRINIC on their web sites, including this REN organization. Yawn. So what? Hardly anybody reads these statements of support. On the other side, they are doing a professional job of public relations where in counts... in the press in Mauritius, where the judges are sitting. Have any of those judges or anyone in the entire government of Mauitius read a single word about these matters, other than Owen DeLong's point of view? No, apparently not. All you who say that you are supporting AFRINIC are like naive sleepwalking children. If you would concentrate your efforts where it matters, in the Mauritian press and with the Mauritian government, then you might have some hope of keeping your own Regional Internet Registry in African, but since no one is doing that, there is no hope of AFRINIC surviving, and thus, this experiment is African Internet sovereignty will end, and once you lose it, you'll never get it back. Ever. Because no one will ever again trust the African Internet community to manage its own affairs without assistance from outside. Regards, rfg From rfg at tristatelogic.com Tue Aug 3 14:43:45 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2021 07:43:45 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <73974.1628001825@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In message Christian Orozco wrote: >Please refrain from this corporate coup narrative. There was a *violation >*from AFRINIC. A violation OF WHAT? I keep asking this question but nobody sems to have an answer. There is only one contract between Cloud Innovation and AFRINIC, and that is the RSA. Show me the exact section of the RSA that AFRINIC violated. Please. Regards, rfg From amelnaud at gmail.com Tue Aug 3 21:52:21 2021 From: amelnaud at gmail.com (Arnaud AMELINA) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2021 21:52:21 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Share About Cloud Innovation Ltd and their business In-Reply-To: <4FC446E1-5FBD-413D-8E23-5EF248F5E8D7@delong.com> References: <46361.1627507530@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <4FC446E1-5FBD-413D-8E23-5EF248F5E8D7@delong.com> Message-ID: Le jeu. 29 juil. 2021 ? 02:44, Owen DeLong a ?crit : > > > On Jul 28, 2021, at 16:57 , Arnaud AMELINA wrote: > > > > >> >> >> > Oui en effet on se rappelle bien de cette p?riode o? le Board entrait dans > le Mico-management d'Afrinic, et jouait quasiment le R?le du CEO, sans que > ce dernier ne r?clame son droit, car ce sont eux qui l'ont recrut? face ? > un Candidat hors du commun, respect de la communaut? Internet mondiale. Il > avait donc peut-?tre peur pour son poste. > > > The CEO at the time that our addresses were issued was none other than > Adiel Akplogan, so it?s not really clear to me who you think you are > targeting here, as I thought he was in place since the beginning of > AFRINIC. What early better candidate do you believe was passed up in hiring > Adiel? > Why are you in a hurry to mention *Adiel* for? Are you desperate again? As I said before, history knows who were in the place when all resources were provided to CI. After some research, we can summarize as follows: Adiel was not the ceo who allocated all the numbers and we can see how the allocations went 1st /12 2nd /12 and then the 1st /11 and 2nd /11 and all this happened within a 12 months time frame! Thus, CI looted the numbers within a year after first CEO, Adiel Akplogan left Afrinic. *The cat was away and the mice played?* Here are the CI allocations mixed with officers at time of allocations for everyone to see and know truth *2013 July 24 1st /12 * *2013 July ceo Adiel Akplogan * *2013 July chair Viv Padayatchy * *2014 September Adiel Akplogan resigned * *2014 September chair Sunday Folayan* *2014 December 01 2nd /12 * *2014 December acting ceo Patrisse* *2014 December chair Sunday Folayan * *2015 December 22 1st /11 * *2015 December ceo Alan Barrett * *2015 December chair Sunday Folayan* *2016 September 23 2nd /11* *2016 ceo Alan Barrett * *2016 chair Sunday Folayan* Some Board Directors 2014 - 2017 *2013 - 2018 Sunday Folayan* *2014 - 2017 Andrew Alston* *2009 - 2015 Mark Elkins* *2014 - 2017 Kris Seeburn* *2013 - 2018 Haitham El Nakhal* The full details are on Afrinic web site ?- *inetnum: 154.80.0.0 154.95.255.255 /12 * netname: Cloud-Innovation-v4-I descr: Cloud Innovation Ltd changed: hostmaster at afrinic.net *20130724* *inetnum: 45.192.0.0 - 45.207.255.255 /12 * netname: Cloud-Innovation-v4-I descr: Cloud Innovation Ltd changed: hostmaster at afrinic.net *20141201* *inetnum:156.224.0.0 -156.255.255.255 /11 * netname: CloudInnovation-infrastructure descr: Cloud Innovation Ltd changed: hostmaster at afrinic.net *20151222* *inetnum:154.192.0.0 - 154.223.255.255 /11 * netname: Cloud-Innovation-v4-II changed: hostmaster at afrinic.net *20160923* *board announced Adiel's depart September 2014, effective 31/01/2015 * *https://afrinic.net/20140917-ceo-adiel-akplogan-resign * All this for the record and education. Regards -- Arnaud ... > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rfg at tristatelogic.com Tue Aug 3 23:07:04 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2021 16:07:04 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Share About Cloud Innovation Ltd and their business In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <75406.1628032024@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In message Arnaud AMELINA wrote: >As I said before, history knows who were in the place when all resources >were provided to CI. After some research, we can summarize as follows: > >Adiel was not the ceo who allocated all the numbers and we can see how the >allocations went 1st /12 2nd /12 and then the 1st /11 and 2nd /11 and all >this happened within a 12 months time frame! I'm sorry, but your information is just not accurate. The version history of each block provides the correct information about the original allocation dates, and it is as follows: 2013-07-24 -- 154.80.0.0/12 2014-12-01 -- 45.192.0.0/12 2015-12-22 -- 156.224.0.0/11 2016-09-23 -- 154.192.0.0/11 Do you disagree with this timeline? If so, on what basis? Th names of board members or board chairmen on these dates is perfectly irrelevant because the board never reviewed any of these allocations, or any of the documents or other materials that were used to justify them. The allocations were all made as a result of "staff" decisions, not the board. The first two of these allocations were granted under CEO Akplogan, who did not leave his CEO position until January 31, 2015: https://afrinic.net/20140917-ceo-adiel-akplogan-resign The two later allocations were granted under CEO Barrett. ALL of the allocations were made during a time period when Ernest Byaruhanga was a high-ranking officer of AFRINIC. In my opinion, -all- of these allocations are suspect, and they are made moreso because neither Lu Heng nor his apparent primary spokesman here, Owen DeLong, has seen fit to share with any of us any of the materials or documentation that was used to provide the required justifications for any of these allocations -originally- even though it is 100% clear that all such records, dating back nearly five years ago to over eight years ago, are no longer in any sense relevant to Cloud Innovation's -current- business model or business operations. The time for dark secrets is over. Lu Heng has elected to try his case on the mailing lists and in the press. OK. Fine. Then let's do that. The question of whether or not Lu Heng's -current- usage of his IP space does or does not meet acceptable criteria is irrelevant if his -original- justifications for the space were in any way inadequate or less than truthful. So let's see those original justifications and let the people decide whether or not Lu Heng even deserved to be granted this much IPv4 space in the first place. Only Lu Heng can give us those original justification documents, if he so chooses. AFRINIC is still bound by confidentiality rules and thus cannot legally provide them to any party outside of AFRINIC. Regards, rfg From owen at delong.com Tue Aug 3 23:33:57 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2021 16:33:57 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments In-Reply-To: <72643.1627984392@segfault.tristatelogic.com> References: <72643.1627984392@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: <354F6704-0224-4525-B26B-D9B259FB2716@delong.com> > On Aug 3, 2021, at 02:53 , Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: > > In message > Paul Hjul wrote: > >>> You and I both know that no such judicial order would ever have been >>> issued by any U.S. court, >> >> >> take it you have not read *United States ex rel. Rahman v. Oncology >> Assocs.*, 198 F.3d 489 (4th Cir. 1999) > > C'mon Paul. Get serious. The facts of that case were TOTALLY different > and in that case the court considered and reasonably found that Defendant > was actively engaged in trying to hide assets: > > https://casetext.com/case/us-ex-rel-rahman-v-oncology-associates-2 > > "The district court entered a pre-judgment, asset-freezing injunction > on the United States' allegations that the defendant oncology service > providers defrauded the Medicare and CHAMPUS programs and thereafter > were engaging in complex reorganizations and transfers of assets to > insulate themselves from liability." > > Show me where AFRINIC took *any* action to in any way remove any of its > bank assets or to place any of them in any place outside of the jurisdiction > of, or beyond the control of the court. AFRINIC has relatively limited income. They have a burn rate that is not far from their income. Their day to day expenses, especially in light of their propensity for board travel, etc. could easily be used to dissipate a substantial fraction of their current holdings which fall well short of what the courts consider to be a likely judgment in the case. > You can't, because it didn't happen. Can?t he? Didn?t it? The very nature of AFRINIC dissipating its assets into its creditors and suppliers coffers would (given AFRINIC?s current expenses) both place some fraction of those bank assets outside of the jurisdiction (as AFRINIC has a number of suppliers and contracts outside of Mauritius) and beyond the control of the court (as once salaries are payed to employees, contractors, or other vendors, it is unlikely that the courts have the power to claw that money back to satisfy a judgment). >> The only reason the restraint "threatens" the >> existence of the organization is because the organizations finances have >> not been arranged in a proper way. > > That is also bullshit. Not entirely so, no. >> I am also increasingly suspecting that a language or numbering conversion >> error and that the amount of 1.8 billion dollars is an urban legend. > > Suspect whatever you like. Some people are possessed of the facts, even > if you have failed to adequately acquaint yourself with them. The true value expressed in the law suit is $1.8 billion USD. I don?t know what will happen in this case, but a few facts are obvious: 1. Even in the case of an entirely favorable judgment against AFRINIC, AFRINIC does not have $1.8 billion USD or the means to acquire anywhere near $1.8 billion USD. 2. Lawsuits often start out with shoot-the-moon numbers and end up with judgments or settlements significantly different than any initial numbers proposed by either side. 3. Whether Ronald agrees with the decision or not, the MU courts found sufficient merits in the petition by CI to issue an order restraining AFRINIC?s bank accounts up to a guarantee amount that is well short of the claimed $1.8 billion USD, but well north of AFRINIC?s current balances. There is a common expression about litigation and mediation that states that a fair conclusion is reached when all sides are equally unhappy with the result. Owen From owen at delong.com Tue Aug 3 23:58:51 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2021 16:58:51 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> Message-ID: <94BF9795-B7E2-49F1-91DE-5096A3544970@delong.com> > On Aug 1, 2021, at 14:25 , Noah wrote: > > > > On Mon, 2 Aug 2021, 00:06 Andrew Alston, > wrote: > This is incorrect and in line actually with what I said - > > Nop > > > Any policy adopted by the Board under the provisions of Article11.4 shall be submitted to the community for endorsement at the next public policy meeting. > > They adopt and submit to the PDWG. That?s exactly what Andrew said. The difference is that he stated it in the way it is stated in 11.5.i? His statement is a direct actual quote of the bylaws. Read 11.4 carefully? It does empower the board to adopt the policy and command staff to give immediate effect to the policy. This intent is further clarified by 11.5.ii when it notes that ?any action taken in terms of the policy prior to such non-endorsement shall remain valid.? > In the event that such a policy submitted by the Board is not endorsed, the said policy shall not be enforced or implemented following its non-endorsement; however, any action taken in terms of the policy prior to such non-endorsement shall remain valid. > > AFRINIC Staff will only enforce or implement the adopted policy if and only if "we the people" aka the powerful PDWG, endorse the said policy. This is simply not correct? You have utterly failed (as you often do) to read 11.4 et seq. as it is plainly written: 11.4) Notwithstanding the provisions of Article 11.3 above, the Board may adopt such policies regarding the management of internet number resources where it considers that the same is necessary and urgent, having regard to the proper and responsible usage of these resources. [Amended at the 2020 AGMM] 11.5) Endorsement of the policy adopted by the Board: Any policy adopted by the Board under the provisions of Article11.4 shall be submitted to the community for endorsement at the next public policy meeting. In the event that such a policy submitted by the Board is not endorsed, the said policy shall not be enforced or implemented following its non-endorsement; however, any action taken in terms of the policy prior to such non-endorsement shall remain valid. Apologies for the difference in numbering? The subparagraphs to 11.5 are rightfully i and ii in the original bylaws text, but I don?t know how to coerce my MUA into properly changing the type of numbers in a list. It is quite clear that 11.4 is an emergency procedure available to the board to create policy that must be implemented faster than is possible with complete community review prior to implementation. It is clear from the following phrases: 11.4 ?such policies regarding the management of INR?same is necessary and urgent? 11.5.ii ?shall not be enforced or implemented following its non-endorsement; however, any action taken in terms of the policy prior to such non-endorsement shall remain valid. If your statement were correct, there would be no need for 11.5.ii, as there would be no possibility of any action being taken between the board adoption and the non-endorsement. So, unless you believe the bylaws were written with nonsensical statements that have no material effect, it is quite clear that the intent here is an emergency PDP similar to the emergency PDP in all other regions that the board can use to address urgent policy matters between policy meetings. > > So dude, the wordings are carefully written. > > 1. Board adopts, PDWG endorse and finally Staff enforce/implements. > > Or > > 2. Board adopts, PDWG does not endorse, AFRINIC staff CAN NOT enforce/implement. > > Makes sense Andrew? It does not. Because the words are, indeed, carefully written? Board adopts, Staff enforces/implements, PDWG endorses or not (some time later), staff continues or stops enforcing based on PDWG outcome. > > > > The board can pass a policy - valid till the next policy meeting - and if the community doesn?t like it they can reverse it - in the mean time those who feel the threat is to great can move in the intervening period. > > > Lol there is no **mean time dude** Then please explain the need for 11.5.ii > > AFRINIC staff won't enforce or implement if "we the people" don't endorse. They will until you do or don?t endorse. That?s the clear and obvious reason 11.5.ii exists. Do you have an alternative explanation? > > > > > The board can - and does - have the power to implement policy valid till the next of wg > > > The board does not have the power unless "we the people" endorse. They do temporarily. It?s a (theoretically) temporary power, but it is a power they have. Indeed, a board acting in bad faith could literally pass such a policy upon the conclusion of the policy meeting, have staff begin enforcing it and have it only lapse during the next policy meeting until the board meets again to again pass such a policy. I suspect this would lead to difficulty in getting re-elected and that it is an unlikely scenario (as it should be), but it is within the rules as written for them to do so. Of course, I suppose you could admit that the wording, while perhaps carefully chosen was not particularly well chosen, but whether that?s the case or not, it still says what it says and it remains the rules by which we must all live until such time as they are legitimately changed by a proper motion and vote at an appropriately called general members meeting, whether special or annual. Owen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amelnaud at gmail.com Tue Aug 3 23:59:57 2021 From: amelnaud at gmail.com (Arnaud AMELINA) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2021 23:59:57 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Share About Cloud Innovation Ltd and their business In-Reply-To: <75406.1628032024@segfault.tristatelogic.com> References: <75406.1628032024@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: Le mar. 3 ao?t 2021 ? 23:09, Ronald F. Guilmette a ?crit : > In message < > CAGDMR_cL96mMUfNsdq8k2PSsdRSYw1Jiz_K2NShiSYBe7S5ksQ at mail.gmail.com> > Arnaud AMELINA wrote: > > >As I said before, history knows who were in the place when all resources > >were provided to CI. After some research, we can summarize as follows: > > > >Adiel was not the ceo who allocated all the numbers and we can see how the > >allocations went 1st /12 2nd /12 and then the 1st /11 and 2nd /11 and all > >this happened within a 12 months time frame! > > I'm sorry, but your information is just not accurate. The version history > of each block provides the correct information about the original > allocation dates, and it is as follows: > > 2013-07-24 -- 154.80.0.0/12 > 2014-12-01 -- 45.192.0.0/12 > 2015-12-22 -- 156.224.0.0/11 > 2016-09-23 -- 154.192.0.0/11 > > Do you disagree with this timeline? If so, on what basis? > No you're right on this one, thanks for the correction, apologize fort the mistake. > Th names of board members or board chairmen on these dates is perfectly > irrelevant because the board never reviewed any of these allocations, > or any of the documents or other materials that were used to justify them. > The allocations were all made as a result of "staff" decisions, not the > board. > You can't be totally sure on this one, because it was the period we saw the Board playing the CEO Prerogatives, and entering in the micromanagement of AFRINIC, remember. > The first two of these allocations were granted under CEO Akplogan, who > did not leave his CEO position until January 31, 2015: > > https://afrinic.net/20140917-ceo-adiel-akplogan-resign I'm OK with this one too, but he already resigned before the allocation, isn't it? > > The two later allocations were granted under CEO Barrett. > If do so, how come New CEO gave 2 of /11 in such a short time? > > ALL of the allocations were made during a time period when Ernest > Byaruhanga > was a high-ranking officer of AFRINIC. > You're right on this one too. > > > In my opinion, -all- of these allocations are suspect, and they are made > moreso because neither Lu Heng nor his apparent primary spokesman here, > Owen DeLong, has seen fit to share with any of us any of the materials or > documentation that was used to provide the required justifications for > any of these allocations -originally- even though it is 100% clear that > all such records, dating back nearly five years ago to over eight years > ago, are no longer in any sense relevant to Cloud Innovation's -current- > business model or business operations. > > The time for dark secrets is over. Lu Heng has elected to try his case > on the mailing lists and in the press. OK. Fine. Then let's do that. > > The question of whether or not Lu Heng's -current- usage of his IP space > does or does not meet acceptable criteria is irrelevant if his -original- > justifications for the space were in any way inadequate or less than > truthful. So let's see those original justifications and let the people > decide whether or not Lu Heng even deserved to be granted this much IPv4 > space in the first place. > > Only Lu Heng can give us those original justification documents, if he so > chooses. AFRINIC is still bound by confidentiality rules and thus cannot > legally provide them to any party outside of AFRINIC. > > > Regards, > rfg > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Wed Aug 4 00:08:00 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2021 17:08:00 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?=5Brpd=5D__Call_for_AFRINIC?= =?utf-8?q?=E2=80=99s__registry_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: <77B645D6-93CA-4DF4-B44A-C1D64F0F69DF@consulintel.es> References: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> <77B645D6-93CA-4DF4-B44A-C1D64F0F69DF@consulintel.es> Message-ID: <614ECAA4-8092-466A-B3C3-BAC3DE78DBE3@delong.com> > On Aug 1, 2021, at 14:57 , JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via RPD wrote: > > Hi Noah, > > Your interpretation on this is wrong. > > Read my detailed email a few days ago. > > 11.4 Allows the Board to define any policy regarding Internet Resources that they believe is urgently needed. > > This can be implemented ASAP the Board decides. The Board MUST also send the policy (11.5), as a policy proposal (because is the only way the PDWG works to reach consensus), to the PDWG for endorsement in the next meeting. If the PPM doesn?t endorse it, then the Policy will decay, but whatever happened meanwhile, will be ?legal? in terms of the PDP. > > Now the question here is: > > From past experience in the other RIRs, implementing such Inter-RIR policy, takes a minimum of 6 months, probably even more (it took 12 months in other RIRs), because there is a need to coordinate all the RIR systems. AFRINIC can?t ?force? other RIRs to change their own agendas and workflows to address all the changes ?faster?. AFRINIC could be lucky and because all the other 4 RIRs already passed by this several times, may be the process is so much ?adjusted? and fine tunned that it may be faster. This won?t actually be the case. AFRINC would be the remaining bottleneck here. Once the first two RIRs (ARIN and APNIC IIRC) had a compatible inter-RIR policy, it took almost no time on the ARIN side for RIPE to be added to the mix. There was some time taken for RIPE to become ready for both APNIC and ARIN. Similarly, once LACNIC finally adopted such policy, the delays were all (to the best of my knowledge) on the LACNIC side of the equation. APNIC, RIPE, and ARIN were essentially already prepared to process such transfers with LACNIC by virtue of having the systems fully ironed out amongst themselves. IIRC, LACNIC was also able to come on line relatively quickly because the other three were able to help them through the process with lessons learned and experiences gained from their own processes. > I already suggested many times the Board to do that, when I saw that the consensus was not achievable. They ignored that. So I don?t think they want to pass this now, more when there are several proposals in discussion and could be discussed in a PPM in a couple of months from now, the AC reconstituted, and the appeals resolved, etc. I suspect you may well be correct here about what the board wants, but in either case, the fiduciary environment in which they operate at the moment may well be different from when you suggested same. Their desire or lack thereof may be subject to different considerations today. > The Board can meanwhile, take measures so the implementation of a possible ?system? for an Inter-RIR proposal is advanced, in hope that one way or the other a proposal reach consensus. Actually, I?m not sure this is an action that the board can take? Such action would be a purely operational matter taken on by staff. I suppose the board could direct the CEO to direct staff, but this gets into a level of operational micromanagement that is not normally considered appropriate for a board. OTOH, I absolutely agree that Eddy should recognize that such a policy is eventually going to become inevitable in one form or another and that responsible preparation in order to be able to expedite implementation once that becomes reality is not a bad idea. > All that said, I expect that if the Board decides to draft that proposal/policy, they make sure that there is a clear statement that ensures that before any transfer, there is a confirmation of the resources being transferred are following the existing conditions in the RSA, CPM, etc., otherwise. Because such a requirement wouldn?t enable abuse of process in any way, right? Sure. It?s not like AFRINIC has abused review processes before, right? Owen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Wed Aug 4 00:28:48 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2021 17:28:48 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: <2983830.0Q3mJ6UETS@coffee-bar> References: <19166B87-4F3A-446C-8863-B2D39C28F1EE@delong.com> <2983830.0Q3mJ6UETS@coffee-bar> Message-ID: <9C6114D0-FA12-48F4-9BED-6A2553AF7AF6@delong.com> > On Aug 1, 2021, at 23:20 , Ish Sookun wrote: > > Hi Owen, > > On Sunday, 1 August 2021 21:36:55 +04 Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss wrote: >> There are very few powers that be for dealing with a situation where an >> RIR?s board and/or management run amok and contrary to the rules which >> govern them. The NRO cannot make any significant action without the >> unanimous consent of all 5 RIR CEOs, so the NRO has no capacity to act to >> correct an aberrant RIR. The only actions available to correct aberrant >> behavior by an RIRs board are the ballot box (replace the board over the >> course of 3 years, or bring an appropriate resolution at a general members >> meeting (annual or special)) or the legal system (courts). Unfortunately, >> AFRINIC?s bylaws are structured such that an aberrant board is allowed to >> block virtually any motion it doesn?t like from being placed on the agenda >> of a general members meeting. > > I see that AFRINIC has about 1,931 (as per [1]). From observation, a small > number of members have expressed themselves on the members list on this > matter. I haven't read enough expression or support for non-confidence on the > board on the members list. > > So, what does a re-election solve here? IMHO it does not solve the current > issue, does not help with the case, does not guarantee members of any more > stability of the AFRINIC infra, but only seems like a hard hammer on a group > of people who already have a lot on their plate right now. You misunderstand my statement. I am neither advocating nor opposing such a move at this time. I am merely stating the facts of what it takes to address the problem of an RIR board acting in bad faith. There seems to be a great deal of misinformation about some mysterious powers that be which can somehow reign in such aberrant behavior by an RIR board andI sought merely to correct that misinformation and clarify that there really are very few alternatives for addressing the situation. I agree that the immediate situation is unlikely to be resolved through the electoral process and therefore I think you have made my point that legal protection was the one and only primary avenue available to the aggrieved partie(s). Owen From owen at delong.com Wed Aug 4 00:49:59 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2021 17:49:59 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Share About Cloud Innovation Ltd and their business In-Reply-To: References: <31299.1627244609@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <745F630B-A186-481C-9704-BCA2A0869089@delong.com> <418e1240-bbaa-b658-43aa-dfd75fc769db@geier.ne.tz> <014477A4-1987-43FB-B8A8-A70B746B3A5A@delong.com> Message-ID: <48BF0462-7F70-4A25-9783-4EED65166EB7@delong.com> Arnaud, I assure you that I write each and every message I post by myself. The so called evidence others have produced is not evidence of anything other than their own misapplication of the text in question. I have refuted each and every piece of so-called evidence in a clear and consistent manner. Even you agree that there is consistency to my arguments. You claim that they are my errors of understanding, I believe them to be yours. There are people who agree with me and people who appear to somehow agree with you about this. I have broken down the context, meaning, and structure of each and every so-called element in an effort to aid in the plain text understanding of the slices of the various governing documents. Interestingly, people on your side just keep citing the same provisions, without making any effort to explain how it is they come to the conclusion that their meaning is so different from their wording. I have at least shown how I come to the conclusion that their wording and meaning are aligned in the manner I have expressed. I have long doubted the value in replying to you, yet I do my best to respect you enough to attempt to provide a cogent rebuttal to each of your arguments. To the best of my knowledge, I have never engaged in ad hominem against you or any of your colleagues, despite your repeated use of ad hominem in an effort to imply that I am somehow incorrect or untrustworthy. Please, let us proceed as gentlemen with mutual respect. I don?t agree with you. I think you are badly misguided in your interpretation of the policy documents. Nonetheless, i have at all times treated you with respect and I have not once questioned your legitimate allegiance to the community. Even if you believe that my opinion is not correct, I think you are hard pressed to make any valid claim that I am not legitimately representing what I believe to be the true interests of the community and the internet as a whole. Owen > On Aug 3, 2021, at 00:02 , Arnaud AMELINA wrote: > > Chers membres d la communaut? > Ne voyez-vous pas que Owen se paie notre t?te (expression francophone j'ignore si ?a existe en anglais). Il r?p?te le m?me refrain tout le temps comme Fernando l'a fait remarquer. Malgr? toutes les preuves ? lui fourni par tous les autres contributeurs il r?p?te les m?me choses, maintenant je viens ? douter que m?me lui n'est pas auteur de ses diff?rents textes qu'il postes, parce que sans aucune coh?rence avec les autres contributions qui lui ont r?pondu. Rien que de la r?p?tition argumentaires comme si nous n'avons que ?a ? faire. Eux , ils sont payer pour produire ces genres de documents toute la journ?e, lui et ses echochambers. Je ne juge m?me plus utile de le lui r?pondre , tellement il r?p?te les m?mes erreurs de compr?hension. On dirait qu'il veut se convaincre que ce qu'il dit est juste et v?ridique, car lui-m?me n'en est pas encore convaincu. > > English > > Dear community members > > Can't you see that Owen is "paying our head " (French expression I don't know if it exists in English). He repeats the same refrain all the time as Fernando pointed out. Despite all the evidence provided to him by all the other contributors, he repeats the same things, now I doubt that even him, is not the author of the various texts that he posts, because without any consistency with the others contributions answering him. Nothing but repeating arguments as if we have only that to do. They are paid to produce these kinds of documents all day long, with his echochambers. I no longer even consider it useful to answer him, because he is repeating the same errors of understanding. It looks like he wants to convince himself that what he is saying is right and true, because himself is not yet convinced. > > -- > Arnaud > > Le mar. 3 ao?t 2021 ? 04:00, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss > a ?crit : > > >> On Aug 2, 2021, at 00:03 , Sylvain Baya > wrote: >> >> Dear AfriNIC's Community, >> >> Please see my comments below, inline... >> >> Le samedi 31 juillet 2021, Owen DeLong > a ?crit : >> >> >>> On Jul 30, 2021, at 15:14 , Sylvain Baya > wrote: >>> >>> Dear AfriNIC's Community, >>> >>> Le mercredi 28 juillet 2021, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss > a ?crit : >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> [...] >>>> >>> >>> You?re not answering the question I asked? >>> >>> >>> Hi Owen, >>> Thanks for your email, brother! >>> >>> >>> What is your basis in policy for claiming that a VM is OK, but leasing addresses without providing connectivity >>> services is not? >>> >>> >>> ...you might have forgotten about a simple notion, >>> called: conservation. You shall recognize it as it has >>> been refered out there as *Reservations*. >> >> I have not forgotten, but we are not talking about reservation. >> >> >> Hi Owen, >> Thanks to take time to reply to my email, brother. >> >> ...so, *we*! i assume the same *we* you usually >> use to call your team to support your personal interpretation of the facts? > > No, we is you and I, the people engaged in this particular conversational > thread. > >> >> Btw, you are entitled to your own opinion. >> >> ...let's, at least, agree to disagree :-/ >> >> >> We are talking about deployment on an actual >> host connected to the internet for legitimate use. >> >> >> ...again, *we*:=you+your_supporting_team, brother? >> >> For what it's worth, in order to lease community's >> ressources such as INRs, one shall *reserve* it first; > > Um, that?s true whether one is leasing the INRs with or > without connnectivity services attached, so you have > either pointed out how we are identical to every other > LIR, or, you have both pointed this out _AND_ called > into question the standard practice of every LIR. > > I?m not sure which is intended. > >> otherwise, any of the end-users/clients shall come >> to the Registration Service to request the needed >> INRs; sure to find some there...and you know it: > > We don?t do anything to interfere with or prevent end-users > or clients from seeking internet number resources from any > other source. > >> those must be incorporated within the AfriNIC's >> service region...they would save a lot of money >> comparing to what could be otherwise payed to >> an intermediary *LIR*...not *GIR*... > > Many LIRs operate on a global scale, including, for > example, Verizon, Hurricane Electric, Akamai, and > more. The term LIR is primarily used not so much to > indicate some diminutive scope as to provide a convenient > distinction from RIR (regional, quasi-continental) or > NIR (National). > >> ...note that no AfriNIC's Resource Member is a GIR (Global Internet Registry) but all are LIRs (Local >> Internet Registries) established/approved to serve >> their local economic zone and free to deploy their business accross the whole AfriNIC's service >> region, wherever they can extend it; legally speaking. > > You are misunderstanding the nature of the term LIR here. > > There is nothing in AFRINIC?s governing documents which prohibits > its resource members from deploying their business across the entire > planet. If you believe that there is, please provide relevant citations > to the appropriate governing document(s). > >> The difference? The only difference? Is that the >> connectivity service does not come from the same provider as the addresses. >> >> >> ...if...then, please see above! > > If what? > >> You seem to read the CPM selectively, if not why could you ignore the notion of valid assignments >> and SAW. > > SAW applies to sub allocations made from one LIR to another. Cloud Innovation makes assignments > and does not make sub allocations, thus the SAW does not apply. > > As to ?valid assignments? where is it that you think these are defined? Which section of the CPM > do you think I have ignored in considering Cloud Innovations assignments valid? > >> ...icymi, please see here: >> > > > How is this relevant to this case? > > 5.5.1.1.3 is about transfers ? Does not apply here. > 5.5.1.2.3 is about efficiency. ? Cloud Innovations utilization fraction is extremely efficient. > 5.5.1.3 is about slow start ? how AFRINIC goes about allocating to LIRs ? Does not apply here. > 5.5.1.4.1 is about utilization percentage required to request more space from AFRINIC ? We are not applying for additional space, so this does not apply here. > 5.5.1.4.2 is about reservations ? No reservations are being made. In this context, the term reservation is used to reference > a situation where an LIR has set aside a group of addresses not actually deployed on hosts and attempts to claim that those > addresses set aside in that manner are utilized for the purposes of calculating the utilization percentage in 5.5.1.4.1. > Since 5.5.1.4.1 does not apply in this situation, and we are not making any such reservations, 5.5.1.4.2 does not apply, either. > 5.5.1.7 We have, in fact, complied with all documentation requirements. > 5.5.1.8 We are an LIR and not an end users, so not sure how you consider this relevant, please enlighten. > 5.5.1.9 Utilization ? We have properly reported our utilization through WHOIS at all times. > 5.5.1.10 Reservations ? Again ? We are not making reservations, so this does not apply. > 5.5.1.11 Validity of an assignment ? We enforce this upon the assignments we make. We have also updated > AFRINIC as the nature of our assignments changed. > 5.5.1.13 Suballocation window ? We are not making sub allocations, so this does not apply. > 5.5.1.13.2 ? See 5.5.1.13 above > 5.5.1.13.3 ? See 5.5.1.13 above > 5.5.1.14 Recordkeeping ? We have kept all records required under this provision and have provided same to AFIRNIC whenever > a sufficiently specific request to identify the desired documents has been received. > > So, not a selective reading at all? A very detailed reading. > > Owen > >> >> copy -> paste: >> >> ~?~ >> >> Yes! i took the responsibility to bring the CPM section 5.5 | IPv4 LIR/ISP >> Allocations (5.5.1 Allocation policies and guidelines) to you, in case it >> might have been a too hard task to go it the location of that content. >> Please accept to read it... >> >> ...i did it with the naive expectation that it >> could help the PDWG to move forward >> on some recuring topics, such as >> Internet number resources (at least for >> IPv4 types) utilisation and responsibilities >> thereof, within the AfriNIC's service region. >> >> Therefore permit me to recommend the following subventions to your >> particular attention: >> >> ??? >> ? 5.5.1.1.3 If an LIR plans to exchange or transfer address space, it needs >> to contact AFRINIC so that the changes are properly registered. >> ? 5.5.1.2.3 Must show an existing efficient utilization of IP addresses >> from their upstream provider. >> ? 5.5.1.3 Slow start mechanism for first allocations >> ? 5.5.1.4.1 An LIR may receive an additional allocation when about 80% of >> all the address space currently allocated to it has been used in valid >> assignments and/or sub-allocations. >> ? 5.5.1.4.2 Reservations are not considered as valid assignments or >> sub-allocations. >> ? 5.5.1.7 Documentation >> ? 5.5.1.8 Network infrastructure (of LIR) vs End-User networks >> ? 5.5.1.9 Utilisation >> ? 5.5.1.10 Reservations not supported >> ? 5.5.1.11 Validity of an assignment >> ? 5.5.1.13 Sub-Allocation Window (SAW) >> ? 5.5.1.13.1 A sub-allocation window (SAW) refers to the maximum number of >> IPv4 addresses that the LIR may sub-allocate to the end-users without >> seeking approval from AFRINIC. >> ? 5.5.1.13.2 AFRINIC will review sub-allocation made by the LIR's using >> their SAW to ensure that policies are followed correctly. >> ? 5.5.1.13.3 Below are a few guidelines for the SAW: >> ? 5.5.1.14 Recordkeeping by LIRs >> ??? >> >> Please let me know if it was a bad initiative :-/ >> >> Thanks. >> >> >> Source: > >> ~?~ >> >> >> >>> Please read again the CPM at section 5: >>> >>> ~?~ >>> [...] >>> ? 5.5.1.4.1 An LIR may receive an additional allocation when about 80% of >>> all the address space currently allocated to it has been used in valid >>> assignments and/or sub-allocations. >>> ? 5.5.1.4.2 *Reservations* are not considered as valid assignments or >>> sub-allocations. >>> [...] >>> ~?~ >> >> Yep? that?s not a prohibition on valid assignment and/or sub allocation independent of >> connectivity services, that?s a prohibition of addresses not being attached to hosts. >> >> >> ...don't divide/separate the tools, please. >> It's not allowed. The implementers use it all: >> Bylaws+RSA+CPM to the good of the AfriNIC's >> service region. >> Do you want to change something? >> ...you know how to try! >> >> >>> It?s simply not prohibited anywhere in policy. >>> >>> >>> Are you serious? >>> >>> ...going further, along with what i wrote above, note >>> that *conservation* is not valid, that appears to be >>> the best description of leasing...of INRs. >> >> Nope? It?s not a good description at all. Reservations (as prohibited in 5.5.1.4.2) refers >> >> >> ...i'm already convinced it is! >> You shall accept it as is :-) >> Do you want to change it? >> >> >> to addresses set aside for later use?Addresses not currently assigned to active hosts. >> >> >> ...your words, mine :-/ >> >> CPM section 5.5.1.4.2 says: >> >> ~?~ >> 5.5.1.4.2 Reservations are not considered as valid assignments or >> sub-allocations. >> >> It may be useful for internal aggregation to keep some IP blocks free for >> future growth. These internal reservations are however not counted as valid >> usage and must be assigned or sub-allocated before requesting for >> additional allocation. >> ~?~ >> >> ...my understanding of *reservation* include yours. >> Hence, there are other possibilities. You can not >> change that. Feel free to try with other tactics... >> >> >> Such is not the case with leasing. With leasing, the addresses are assigned to hosts active >> on the internet, but the hosts may be getting their connectivity from a different provider than >> they are getting the addresses from. >> >> >> This is not a practice allowed within the AfriNIC's >> service region , you should understand it...but feel >> free to keep your business logic...describing it as >> you want, will not change what it is in reality... >> >> CPM sections 5.5.1.10 & 5.5.1.11 say: >> >> ~?~ >> 5.5.1.10 Reservations not supported >> >> End-users are not permitted to reserve address space based on long term >> plans. This violates the goal of conservation and fragments the address >> space when initial forecasts are not met. If an LIR wants to assign address >> space for customers, it must make the assignments from any unallocated or >> unassigned address space it currently holds. For the purposes evaluating >> allocation requests, space reserved by an LIR for other customers is >> considered unused. >> >> 5.5.1.11 Validity of an assignment >> >> Assignments remain valid as long as the original criteria on which the >> assignment was based are still in place and the assignment is registered in >> the AFRINIC database. An assignment is therefore invalid if it is not >> registered in the database and if the purpose for which it was registered >> has changed or no longer holds. >> ~?~ >> >> ...yes! again: *the purpose* [1] coupled with >> the RSA section 4(c)(i), to not say all the full >> section 4. titled: *Conditions of service*. >> __ >> [1]: > >> >> >> >>> Those who are charged to implement the CPM have >>> indicated the same. Could you, please, show us >>> where the CPM allows it? >> >> If they have indicated this, then they are simply in error as that is not what it actually says. >> I have not noticed AFRINIC staff referring to this section as prohibiting leasing, but perhaps >> their reference escaped me at some point. >> >> It does not need to be specifically permitted. That which is not prohibited is permitted implicitly. >> >> >> ...permitted where? >> >> Have you tried to put Bylaws+RSA+CPM together? >> >> Please try, then come back with your results. >> >> >> Unless there is an explicit requirement in the CPM that hosts receive connectivity services from >> the same provider which provides their addresses, then independent assignment is inherently >> permitted and this is the current state. >> >> >> ...the current course is otherwise, and you know it. >> >> Again, when there is an established RIR, to serve LIRs and End-Users within its own service region... >> it's by definition the responsibility of the latters to >> serve their local end-users, if applicable...i'm ready >> to agree if you point me to any section of the CPM, >> the Bylaws or the RSA where it's clearly stated that >> AfriNIC shall allocate/assign INRs to GIRs (*Global* Internet Registries) or *Global* End-Users. >> >> As long as there is no mention of the existence of >> GIRs within the AfriNIC service region, you shall >> understand that out-of-region assignments or >> sub-allocations could not be the normal trend... >> >> ...i'm awaiting :-/ >> >> >> I hope you now understand the difference between a reservation (holding unused addresses, >> >> >> You expect me to understand what? >> >> ...please see above and get my answer from there. >> >> >> such as what Seacom and many others are doing) vs. providing addresses that are actually >> in use, but not simultaneously providing transit or transport services. >> >> >> ...don't mix problems, do fill your complain >> appropriately, please, and the community >> shall address it usual. >> >> Thanks to stop your divertion! but you are free >> to continue to support some wrong doings... >> >> Have a blessed monday! >> >> Shalom, >> --sb. >> >> >> Owen >> >>> >>> Shalom, >>> --sb. >>> >>> >>>> Or wait... I can not find this so-called LIR Cloud Innovation Limited with offices in Seychelles using this BGP tool. >>>> >>>> https://bgp.he.net/country/SC >>> >>> And? >>> [...] >> >> >> >> -- >> -- >> Best Regards ! >> __ >> baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]|> >> Subscribe to Mailing List: > >> __ >> #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|#?Romains15?:33?Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec vous tous! ?#?Amen?!? >> ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement? >> ?Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!?(#Psaumes42:2) >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Wed Aug 4 01:14:08 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2021 18:14:08 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Share About Cloud Innovation Ltd and their business In-Reply-To: References: <46361.1627507530@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <4FC446E1-5FBD-413D-8E23-5EF248F5E8D7@delong.com> Message-ID: <8927F030-9DB0-4AFB-B843-4E7BF8A73DA1@delong.com> > On Aug 3, 2021, at 14:52 , Arnaud AMELINA wrote: > > > > Le jeu. 29 juil. 2021 ? 02:44, Owen DeLong > a ?crit : > > >> On Jul 28, 2021, at 16:57 , Arnaud AMELINA > wrote: > >> >> >> >> >> >> Oui en effet on se rappelle bien de cette p?riode o? le Board entrait dans le Mico-management d'Afrinic, et jouait quasiment le R?le du CEO, sans que ce dernier ne r?clame son droit, car ce sont eux qui l'ont recrut? face ? un Candidat hors du commun, respect de la communaut? Internet mondiale. Il avait donc peut-?tre peur pour son poste. > > The CEO at the time that our addresses were issued was none other than Adiel Akplogan, so it?s not really clear to me who you think you are targeting here, as I thought he was in place since the beginning of AFRINIC. What early better candidate do you believe was passed up in hiring Adiel? > > Why are you in a hurry to mention Adiel for? Are you desperate again? A hurry? You are the one who brought up the CEO. I merely pointed out which CEO you were accusing. Why do you have a problem with this? I?ll note that you still have not answered my actual question. > As I said before, history knows who were in the place when all resources were provided to CI. After some research, we can summarize as follows: > > Adiel was not the ceo who allocated all the numbers and we can see how the allocations went 1st /12 2nd /12 and then the 1st /11 and 2nd /11 and all this happened within a 12 months time frame! Yes? And each with a valid justification and utilization data for previous resources duly and properly submitted. > Thus, CI looted the numbers within a year after first CEO, Adiel Akplogan left Afrinic. The cat was away and the mice played? I take issue with your use of the term looted which implies a crime of theft during a war, riot, or other civil unrest. I do not believe such a civil unrest existed in AFRINIC at the time, nor do I believe that the resource registrations were obtained by theft. > Here are the CI allocations mixed with officers at time of allocations for everyone to see and know truth > Corrections inline: > 2004 ceo Adiel Akplogan > 2013 July 24 1st /12 > 2013 July chair Viv Padayatchy > 2014 September Adiel Akplogan resigned > 2014 September chair Sunday Folayan > 2014 December 01 2nd /12 > 2014 December 31 acting ceo Patrisse (Invalid because he is a resident of Mauritius and thus prohibited by bylaws from being CEO) > 2014 December chair Sunday Folayan > 2015 December 22 1st /11 > 2015 December ceo Alan Barrett > 2015 December chair Sunday Folayan > 2016 September 23 2nd /11 > 2016 ceo Alan Barrett > 2016 chair Sunday Folayan So we have, according to you, a single /12 issued under Adiel, a /12 and a /11 issued under Patrisse, and a /11 issued under Alan Barrett. I?m trying to get exact issue dates to confirm whether your chronology works or not, but even if it does, are you claiming that Patrisse and/or Alan were, in some way, corrupt or suborned improper allocations by the registry? That?s a pretty serious accusation and I?d say you should have some pretty strong evidence to back it up. Further, you still haven?t answered the question as to which candidate you feel was passed up for CEO who would somehow have not issued these allocations or why. > > Some Board Directors 2014 - 2017 > 2013 - 2018 Sunday Folayan > 2014 - 2017 Andrew Alston > 2009 - 2015 Mark Elkins > 2014 - 2017 Kris Seeburn > 2013 - 2018 Haitham El Nakhal > > The full details are on Afrinic web site You are mistaking ?changed:? date (last update) for ?issued:? date (not published). Owen > ?- > inetnum: 154.80.0.0 154.95.255.255 /12 > > netname: Cloud-Innovation-v4-I > > descr: Cloud Innovation Ltd > > changed: hostmaster at afrinic.net 20130724 > > > inetnum: 45.192.0.0 - 45.207.255.255 /12 > > netname: Cloud-Innovation-v4-I > > descr: Cloud Innovation Ltd > > changed: hostmaster at afrinic.net 20141201 > > > inetnum:156.224.0.0 -156.255.255.255 /11 > > netname: CloudInnovation-infrastructure > > descr: Cloud Innovation Ltd > > changed: hostmaster at afrinic.net 20151222 > > > inetnum:154.192.0.0 - 154.223.255.255 /11 > > netname: Cloud-Innovation-v4-II changed: hostmaster at afrinic.net 20160923 > > > board announced Adiel's depart September 2014, effective 31/01/2015 > > https://afrinic.net/20140917-ceo-adiel-akplogan-resign > > All this for the record and education. > > Regards > > -- > Arnaud > ... > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rfg at tristatelogic.com Wed Aug 4 02:10:06 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2021 19:10:06 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments In-Reply-To: <354F6704-0224-4525-B26B-D9B259FB2716@delong.com> Message-ID: <75883.1628043006@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In message <354F6704-0224-4525-B26B-D9B259FB2716 at delong.com>, Owen DeLong wrote: >> Show me where AFRINIC took *any* action to in any way remove any of its >> bank assets or to place any of them in any place outside of the jurisdiction >> of, or beyond the control of the court. > >AFRINIC has relatively limited income. They have a burn rate that is not far >from their income. Their day to day expenses, especially in light of their >propensity for board travel, etc. could easily be used to dissipate a substantial >fraction of their current holdings... That's bullshit. The entire AFRINIC budget for 2015, which I saw, was something just a bit north of $4 million USD. I suspect that the organization proabbly has at least 1/4 of that amount on hand and in the bank at any given time to pay expenses. So where exactly do you think the jet-setting board members are going to fly off to that is going to cost even a "substantial fraction" of that? Mars? Owen, the more you talk, the more laughable and the more extreme you get. >which fall well short of what the courts >consider to be a likely judgment in the case. Stop lying and stop putting words into the mouth of the judge. The court has rendered -no- opinion on the "likely judgment in the case". Indeed, the court hasn't even begun to consider the merits of the case. All that has happened is that one judge made a decision to do exactly and only what Lu Heng's high-priced and undoubtedly well-connected Appleby lawyer asked that judge to do, and only in a one-sided EX PARTE context, where only one side was even present to argue its side of things. That's not even a remotely fair way to decide such weighty and consequential matters, and it reeks like a whore house at low tide. >>> The only reason the restraint "threatens" the >>> existence of the organization is because the organizations finances have >>> not been arranged in a proper way. >> >> That is also bullshit. > >Not entirely so, no. Prove it. Where is the actual evidence that AFRINIC's "finances have not been arranged in a proper way"? It is "put up or shut up" time, for ALL of the speculative and false assertions that have been made here, based on absoluetly -zero- actual evidence. >The true value expressed in the law suit is $1.8 billion USD. Thank you for at least being honest about this one already known and established public fact. Regards, rfg From rfg at tristatelogic.com Wed Aug 4 02:48:59 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2021 19:48:59 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Share About Cloud Innovation Ltd and their business In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <75978.1628045339@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In message Arnaud AMELINA wrote: >> The names of board members or board chairmen on these dates is perfectly >> irrelevant because the board never reviewed any of these allocations, >> or any of the documents or other materials that were used to justify them. >> The allocations were all made as a result of "staff" decisions, not the >> board. > >You can't be totally sure on this one, because it was the period we saw the >Board playing the CEO Prerogatives, and entering in the micromanagement of >AFRINIC, remember. Even Owen Delong, Lu Heng's unoffical chief lobbyist, as admitted that at least two of these four allocations where made without ANY review by the board at the time, and indeed, if you look back at the archives, and at the mailing list discussions that took place at the time, it was agreed at the time and in public that some of these allocations were made strictly and only on the basis of "staff" decisions, and that the board was not involved in the decision process AT ALL. I have personally interviewed knowlegable sources who have asserted to me privately that -none- of the four Cloud Innovation requests for IPv4 address space were ever reviewed by the board. So unless you have some different and conflicting information which might suggest that that is not true, I am going to go with that for now.... all four CI allocations were made strictly and only on the basis of "staff" decisions. That is my opinion, based on my interviews of knowlegable sources. >> The first two of these allocations were granted under CEO Akplogan, who >> did not leave his CEO position until January 31, 2015: >> >> https://afrinic.net/20140917-ceo-adiel-akplogan-resign > >I'm OK with this one too, but he already resigned before the allocation, >isn't it? Yes, Akplogan had resigned as of September 17, 2014, but he was still sitting in the captain's chair and he was still calling the shots until January 31, 2015. The 45.192.0.0/12 block was allocated to Cloud Innovation on December 1, 2014, after Akplogan's resignation but before his resignation became effective. https://afrinic.net/20140917-ceo-adiel-akplogan-resign If the ship of AFRINIC hit an iceberg... or perhaps multiple icebergs... and if it started taking on water, and if the lifeboats had to be deployed at any time prior to January 31, 2015, then I think it is clear who must ultimately be held responsible for that. Ignorance is never a valid excuse for a captain not to be aware that his ship is taking on water, especially when the lives or fortunes of so many others are depeding on him being awake and alert. >> The two later allocations were granted under CEO Barrett. > >If do so, how come New CEO gave 2 of /11 in such a short time? Good question! Maybe if we ever get to see the original justifications we may get to find out. But it appears that Lu Heng is not eager for anyone to see those documents, and I guess that he also doesn't want to even have to show those documents in court, which might explain why he and his many associates and sock puppets are so eager to drive AFRINIC into a early grave, before things ever even get that far in court where he might have to show his whole hand. >> ALL of the allocations were made during a time period when Ernest >> Byaruhanga was a high-ranking officer of AFRINIC. > >You're right on this one too. You say that as if there was ever any doubt. I'm not the guy who has been lying about stuff or hiding stuff. I am the guy who has found and told the straight truth, from the beginning. I can do that because I have no personal financial stake in any of these matters. My only motivation is to see justice prevail. Regards, rfg From b.sowers154 at gmail.com Wed Aug 4 03:07:23 2021 From: b.sowers154 at gmail.com (Brian Sowers) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2021 23:07:23 -0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= Message-ID: <51FD222E-3943-4073-9253-473230C2BBD6@gmail.com> >Moreover, a more capable registry can provide better service possibly along with lower fees and even a more stable governance. With better resource handling, all these benefits can be enjoyed by users. With the bureaucratic legal mess AFRINIC currently (and historically) finds itself with the courts and hung appeals, the NRO?s stability fund requiring unanimous RIR support, perhaps it?s just best to switch over to RIPE. As you said, better service?lower fees?*stable* governance. African internet has found itself in crisis due to AFRINIC. Sure, members are able to send posts to this forum via the resources AFRINIC provides, but AFRINIC gratuitously provides extra services such as arbitrarily shutting down memberships and creating uncertainty in the air about its bottom line. It?s time to revamp AFRINIC?s core values or simply switch to another RIR (or accept support from) that actually lives up to its ideals. -Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From b.sowers154 at gmail.com Wed Aug 4 03:21:31 2021 From: b.sowers154 at gmail.com (Brian Sowers) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2021 23:21:31 -0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= Message-ID: <8A4CE78B-8FC8-4F5E-9283-40CEEEF91703@gmail.com> Frank, Cloud Innovation dropping all it lawsuits is akin to ignoring a major problem because it is slightly annoying for the bystanders. Tolerating a single offense gives the offender affirmation that it can continue to do said action. Do you remember back in elementary school when your dad told you to punch the bully back or else he/she would keep bothering you? Same scenario. Expecting the bully?in this case, AFRINIC Cloud Innovation? to suddenly comply and respect Cloud?s rights is nonsensical. Worded another way, is a corrupt police officer going to arrest himself? Shockingly, this has turned into a mass case of Stockholm Syndrome affecting the Cloud?s dissidents. Cloud is perfectly in its rights navigating through the legal system to maintain its defense against AFRINIC. I?d rather have one acute headache than a chronic one if given the chance. -Brian From owen at delong.com Wed Aug 4 04:06:48 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2021 21:06:48 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments In-Reply-To: References: <66199.1627863590@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <2925620.dadKe6YdsW@coffee-bar> <1936995.904fYiJVhz@coffee-bar> Message-ID: I?ve made no secret at any point (since it became the case) of the fact that Cloud Innovation is one of my clients. Do you routinely tell everyone you talk to who your clients are as a matter of course? When asked, I told the truth. Plainly, directly, and immediately. The fact that I didn?t volunteer the information upon introduction does not in any way affect the validity or accuracy of what I had to say. Owen > On Aug 3, 2021, at 04:33 , Omo Oaiya wrote: > > Hello Patrice, > > My thanks too. I understand from your comment that Owen Delong did not volunteer this information. > > I have read the article. The fact that Owen did not disclose upfront that he was hired by Cloud Innovation makes his opinion less meaningful and suspect. Something you perhaps want to correct so you are not complicit in deceiving your readership. > > Best wishes, > Omo > > > On Tue, 3 Aug 2021 at 12:19, Ish Sookun > wrote: > Hi Patrice, > > Thank you. Indeed, your reply helps and it is appreciated. > > Cheers, > > -- > Ish Sookun > > On Tuesday, 3 August 2021 14:54:45 +04 Patrice Donzelot wrote: > > Hi Ish > > > > As M. Delong mentioned, he told me CI is his company's client. But it was > > not mentioned in the first email I got. In a reply, I ask him which > > relation he has with CI. I hope it helps. > > > > Regards > > Patrice Donzelot > > patrice at defimedia.info > > (+230)57864142 / (+230)2070666 > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Ish Sookun > > > Sent: Tuesday, 3 August 2021, 11:58 > > To: Owen DeLong > > Cc: Patrice Donzelot; Community Discuss > > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent > > AFRINIC developments > > > > Hi Patrice, > > > > I am looping you in a discussion thread on the AFRINIC mailing list [1] > > which has a public archive. > > > > As per Owen Delong's below statement, it seems that he didn't conceal that > > he is a consultant for Cloud Innovation Ltd and that you ? perhaps ? chose > > not to print that information in the D?fimedia [1] article. > > > > For the sake of transparency, can you tell us whether Owen's professional > > relationship with Cloud Innovation Ltd was disclosed to you or not? > > > > Regards, > > > > -- > > Ish Sookun > > > > [1] https://defimedia.info/litige-qui-menace-internet-laccusateur-contredit-afrinic > > > > On Tuesday, 3 August 2021 11:03:31 +04 Owen DeLong wrote: > > > The fact that Patrice chose not to print it when he paraphrased my remarks > > > does not mean that I did not disclose it to him. > > > > > > You are mistaken in believing that I concealed it or did not tell him. > > > Perhaps you should ask him yourself why he did not disclose that CI is one > > > of my consulting clients, which is exactly what I told him. > > > > > > Owen > > > > > > > On Aug 2, 2021, at 23:30 , Ish Sookun > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Owen, > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, 3 August 2021 07:38:35 +04 Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > >> Under such a circumstance, with so many customers and the company?s > > > >> reputation on the line, the decision was made (well above my pay grade) > > > >> that it was necessary to pursue legal remedies to protect the company > > > >> from > > > >> AFRINIC?s unreasonable actions. > > > > > > > > Don't you think you forgot to mention your affiliation with CI when > > > > addressing to the journalist of D?fimedia newspaper [1] (Mauritius)? I > > > > refer to your> > > > > > > > > statement: > > > > ? Le consultant am?ricain et sp?cialiste d?internet, Owen DeLong a > > > > > > > > ?galement souhait? r?agir. Il prend position en faveur de Cloud > > > > Innovation. Dans un courriel adress? au D?fi Plus [...] Owen DeLong > > > > estime lui aussi que Cloud Innovation est dans son bon droit. ? > > > > > > > > Don't you think this piece of information was important to the readers, > > > > that you are on CI payroll and not an independent American consultant & > > > > Internet specialist saying that CI is right? > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Ish Sookun > > > > > > > > [1] https://defimedia.info/litige-qui-menace-internet-laccusateur-contredit-afrinic > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net Wed Aug 4 04:12:42 2021 From: Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net (Omo Oaiya) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2021 05:12:42 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments In-Reply-To: References: <66199.1627863590@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <2925620.dadKe6YdsW@coffee-bar> <1936995.904fYiJVhz@coffee-bar> Message-ID: Oh, it does! Apart from the fact that you persist in misrepresenting the facts, we all know that he who pays the piper dictates the tune, On Wed, 4 Aug 2021 at 05:08, Owen DeLong wrote: > I?ve made no secret at any point (since it became the case) of the fact > that Cloud Innovation is > one of my clients. Do you routinely tell everyone you talk to who your > clients are as a matter of > course? > > When asked, I told the truth. Plainly, directly, and immediately. > > The fact that I didn?t volunteer the information upon introduction does > not in any way affect > the validity or accuracy of what I had to say. > > Owen > > > On Aug 3, 2021, at 04:33 , Omo Oaiya wrote: > > Hello Patrice, > > My thanks too. I understand from your comment that Owen Delong did not > volunteer this information. > > I have read the article. The fact that Owen did not disclose upfront that > he was hired by Cloud Innovation makes his opinion less meaningful and > suspect. Something you perhaps want to correct so you are not complicit > in deceiving your readership. > > Best wishes, > Omo > > > On Tue, 3 Aug 2021 at 12:19, Ish Sookun > wrote: > >> Hi Patrice, >> >> Thank you. Indeed, your reply helps and it is appreciated. >> >> Cheers, >> >> -- >> Ish Sookun >> >> On Tuesday, 3 August 2021 14:54:45 +04 Patrice Donzelot wrote: >> > Hi Ish >> > >> > As M. Delong mentioned, he told me CI is his company's client. But it >> was >> > not mentioned in the first email I got. In a reply, I ask him which >> > relation he has with CI. I hope it helps. >> > >> > Regards >> > Patrice Donzelot >> > patrice at defimedia.info >> > (+230)57864142 / (+230)2070666 >> > >> > ________________________________ >> > From: Ish Sookun >> > Sent: Tuesday, 3 August 2021, 11:58 >> > To: Owen DeLong >> > Cc: Patrice Donzelot; Community Discuss >> > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent >> > AFRINIC developments >> > >> > Hi Patrice, >> > >> > I am looping you in a discussion thread on the AFRINIC mailing list [1] >> > which has a public archive. >> > >> > As per Owen Delong's below statement, it seems that he didn't conceal >> that >> > he is a consultant for Cloud Innovation Ltd and that you ? perhaps ? >> chose >> > not to print that information in the D?fimedia [1] article. >> > >> > For the sake of transparency, can you tell us whether Owen's >> professional >> > relationship with Cloud Innovation Ltd was disclosed to you or not? >> > >> > Regards, >> > >> > -- >> > Ish Sookun >> > >> > [1] >> https://defimedia.info/litige-qui-menace-internet-laccusateur-contredit-afrinic >> > >> > On Tuesday, 3 August 2021 11:03:31 +04 Owen DeLong wrote: >> > > The fact that Patrice chose not to print it when he paraphrased my >> remarks >> > > does not mean that I did not disclose it to him. >> > > >> > > You are mistaken in believing that I concealed it or did not tell him. >> > > Perhaps you should ask him yourself why he did not disclose that CI >> is one >> > > of my consulting clients, which is exactly what I told him. >> > > >> > > Owen >> > > >> > > > On Aug 2, 2021, at 23:30 , Ish Sookun >> > > > wrote: >> > > > >> > > > Hi Owen, >> > > > >> > > > On Tuesday, 3 August 2021 07:38:35 +04 Owen DeLong via >> Community-Discuss >> > > > >> > > > wrote: >> > > >> Under such a circumstance, with so many customers and the company?s >> > > >> reputation on the line, the decision was made (well above my pay >> grade) >> > > >> that it was necessary to pursue legal remedies to protect the >> company >> > > >> from >> > > >> AFRINIC?s unreasonable actions. >> > > > >> > > > Don't you think you forgot to mention your affiliation with CI when >> > > > addressing to the journalist of D?fimedia newspaper [1] >> (Mauritius)? I >> > > > refer to your> >> > > > >> > > > statement: >> > > > ? Le consultant am?ricain et sp?cialiste d?internet, Owen DeLong >> a >> > > > >> > > > ?galement souhait? r?agir. Il prend position en faveur de Cloud >> > > > Innovation. Dans un courriel adress? au D?fi Plus [...] Owen >> DeLong >> > > > estime lui aussi que Cloud Innovation est dans son bon droit. ? >> > > > >> > > > Don't you think this piece of information was important to the >> readers, >> > > > that you are on CI payroll and not an independent American >> consultant & >> > > > Internet specialist saying that CI is right? >> > > > >> > > > Regards, >> > > > >> > > > -- >> > > > Ish Sookun >> > > > >> > > > [1] >> https://defimedia.info/litige-qui-menace-internet-laccusateur-contredit-afrinic >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Wed Aug 4 06:11:10 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2021 23:11:10 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments In-Reply-To: <75883.1628043006@segfault.tristatelogic.com> References: <75883.1628043006@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: > On Aug 3, 2021, at 19:10 , Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: > > In message <354F6704-0224-4525-B26B-D9B259FB2716 at delong.com>, > Owen DeLong wrote: > >>> Show me where AFRINIC took *any* action to in any way remove any of its >>> bank assets or to place any of them in any place outside of the jurisdiction >>> of, or beyond the control of the court. >> >> AFRINIC has relatively limited income. They have a burn rate that is not far >> from their income. Their day to day expenses, especially in light of their >> propensity for board travel, etc. could easily be used to dissipate a substantial >> fraction of their current holdings... > > That's bullshit. The entire AFRINIC budget for 2015, which I saw, was > something just a bit north of $4 million USD. I suspect that the > organization proabbly has at least 1/4 of that amount on hand and in > the bank at any given time to pay expenses. AFRINIC bills all renewals at the same time annually at the beginning of the year, so they have almost no revenue coming for the rest of the year. So any money they spend between now and the conclusion of the case is a dissipation of assets that might be subject to the judgment. > So where exactly do you think the jet-setting board members are going to > fly off to that is going to cost even a "substantial fraction" of that? > Mars? Substantial fraction? Probably not, but they?re so far under water for even a fraction of an adverse judgment that I don?t see any reason not to hang on to as many assets as possible. > Owen, the more you talk, the more laughable and the more extreme you get. Your perspective differs from mine. >> which fall well short of what the courts >> consider to be a likely judgment in the case. > > Stop lying and stop putting words into the mouth of the judge. The court > has rendered -no- opinion on the "likely judgment in the case?. Oh, really? My understanding is that such an asset seizure is generally only granted if there is reasonable probability of the case succeeding in the judges estimation. > Indeed, > the court hasn't even begun to consider the merits of the case. All that > has happened is that one judge made a decision to do exactly and only > what Lu Heng's high-priced and undoubtedly well-connected Appleby lawyer > asked that judge to do, and only in a one-sided EX PARTE context, where > only one side was even present to argue its side of things. Well, let?s see what happens today. Should be interesting. > That's not even a remotely fair way to decide such weighty and consequential > matters, and it reeks like a whore house at low tide. Interesting visual. >>>> The only reason the restraint "threatens" the >>>> existence of the organization is because the organizations finances have >>>> not been arranged in a proper way. >>> >>> That is also bullshit. >> >> Not entirely so, no. > > Prove it. > > Where is the actual evidence that AFRINIC's "finances have not been arranged > in a proper way"? It wasn?t my original statement, so I?ll leave further comment on it to the person who made the statement. Owen From rfg at tristatelogic.com Wed Aug 4 06:16:17 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2021 23:16:17 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] History Lesson -- Looting AFRINIC -- The Beginning Message-ID: <76552.1628057777@segfault.tristatelogic.com> It's amazing what one can find just by trawling though the old mailing list archives. Here is an oldie but a goodie -- a posting to the RPD list dated January 10, 2013, announcing a new policy proposal... a proposal to allow IP address resources to be transferred OUT of the AFRINIC region. (Gee! Now doesn't THAT sound familiar?) This new proposal was announced to the list on behalf of AFRINIC by our dear old friend Ernest Byaruhanga. But Ernest was just intorducing the proposal. The proposal itself was authored by Mr. Chad Abizeid as a representative of his company, LogicWeb Inc. (New York, USA): https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2013/002662.html As you can all see, the proposal argues that "it stands to reason that no IPv4 address space should be 'locked up' within the RIR service region". (It would appear that Mr. Abizeid had no special concerns about either IPv6 addresses or AS numbers being "locked up" in the AFRINIC region. His only concern appears to have been the stuff that could be quickly turned into instant cash.) As some of you may be aware, Mr. Abizeid's company is currently one of three that are locked in litigation, WHICH THEY INITIATED, against AFRINIC, most probably because the AFRINIC-issued IPv4 block 196.52.0.0/14 which was previously registered to Mr. Abizeid's company was reclaimed into the free pool some time ago by AFRINIC, presumably due to what I believe were some well-placed concerns on the part of AFRINIC about the exact provenance of this block and its apparent connections to Ernest and to "The Great AFRINIC Heist". During my own exhaustive investigation of "The Great AFRINIC Heist" I found what I believe/believed to be clear and compelling historical evidence indicating that the 196.52.0.0/14 block was originally registered to a fictitious and non-existant business entity whose name was given only as "ITC", where that fake and non-existant company was itself apparently cooked up out of whole cloth, and then used frequently and repeatedly to cover up ongoing looting of the free pool, most probably by our dear Mr. Ernest Byaruhanga. https://pastebin.com/raw/726hvviB I just wanted everyone to be aware of the history here. Going all of the way back to 2013 it appears clear that certain non-Africans have been eager to get their hands on these valuable "natural resources" of Africa, using ANY MEANS NECESSARY, and that once having obtained these 21st century blood diamonds, they were very much in a hurry to move them out of Africa and get them to market as quickly as possible. Now here we are, here, eight years later, in 2021. Has anything changed? Regards, rfg P.S. Note that according to the historical records (see above) the nicely valuable 196.52.0.0/14 block had only been transfered from "ITC" to Mr. Abizeid's company, LogicWeb, on October 5, 2012. Then, just slightly over two months later, Mr. Abizeid was already putting forth a proposal to allow him to quickly and efficiently monetize that asset, outside of the AFRINIC region. Having lived through four years of Donald Trump's America, I suppose that I should be accustomed to this level of naked greed by now, but I still do find it rather astonishing. From rfg at tristatelogic.com Wed Aug 4 06:28:17 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2021 23:28:17 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry?= =?utf-8?q?_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: <8A4CE78B-8FC8-4F5E-9283-40CEEEF91703@gmail.com> Message-ID: <76614.1628058497@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In message <8A4CE78B-8FC8-4F5E-9283-40CEEEF91703 at gmail.com>, Brian Sowers wrote: >Do you remember back in elementary school when your dad told you >to punch the bully back or else he/she would keep bothering you? >Same scenario. I'm so glad you brought that up. Who is acting like the actual bully here? AFRINIC, or the "Seychelles" company that has sued it for $1.8 billion dollars and that has frozen its assets before it has even had a fair chance to speak its case? I know which party is the bully in this case. It's the one doing all of these bullshit legal maneuvers and the one that is sending in a small army of Gmail sock puppets to make it look as if they have some actual support in the community. Oh! And by the way... Who are you again? And who is signing your checks? Regards, rfg From ish.sookun at lasentinelle.mu Wed Aug 4 06:33:17 2021 From: ish.sookun at lasentinelle.mu (Ish Sookun) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2021 10:33:17 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments In-Reply-To: References: <66199.1627863590@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: <2810422.VaIAjGeSES@coffee-bar> Owen, as per Patrice's reply, you did not say that Cloud Innovation Ltd is your client. You said it is one of your company's client. Your company name and affiliation is not mentioned in the article. Yes, you can again blame it on the journalist. That's very easy to do. However, you could have simply been true & honest by giving the information upfront and clearly instructing Patrice that your affiliation be mentioned in the article for transparency sake. Even if he missed it, you could have asked for correction/update after you read the article. @Patrice, I will remove you from the recipients list in my future replies on this topic. You do not need to deal with this. I thank you again for your prompt reply. Regards, -- Ish Sookun On Wednesday, 4 August 2021 08:06:48 +04 Owen DeLong wrote: > I?ve made no secret at any point (since it became the case) of the fact that > Cloud Innovation is one of my clients. Do you routinely tell everyone you > talk to who your clients are as a matter of course? > > When asked, I told the truth. Plainly, directly, and immediately. > > The fact that I didn?t volunteer the information upon introduction does not > in any way affect the validity or accuracy of what I had to say. > > Owen > > > On Aug 3, 2021, at 04:33 , Omo Oaiya wrote: > > > > Hello Patrice, > > > > My thanks too. I understand from your comment that Owen Delong did not > > volunteer this information. > > > > I have read the article. The fact that Owen did not disclose upfront that > > he was hired by Cloud Innovation makes his opinion less meaningful and > > suspect. Something you perhaps want to correct so you are not complicit > > in deceiving your readership. > > > > Best wishes, > > Omo > > > > > > On Tue, 3 Aug 2021 at 12:19, Ish Sookun > > wrote: Hi Patrice, > > > > Thank you. Indeed, your reply helps and it is appreciated. > > > > Cheers, > > > > -- > > Ish Sookun > > > > On Tuesday, 3 August 2021 14:54:45 +04 Patrice Donzelot wrote: > > > Hi Ish > > > > > > As M. Delong mentioned, he told me CI is his company's client. But it > > > was > > > not mentioned in the first email I got. In a reply, I ask him which > > > relation he has with CI. I hope it helps. > > > > > > Regards > > > Patrice Donzelot > > > patrice at defimedia.info > > > (+230)57864142 / (+230)2070666 > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: Ish Sookun > > > Sent: Tuesday, 3 August 2021, > > > 11:58 > > > To: Owen DeLong > > > Cc: Patrice Donzelot; Community Discuss > > > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent > > > AFRINIC developments > > > > > > Hi Patrice, > > > > > > I am looping you in a discussion thread on the AFRINIC mailing list [1] > > > which has a public archive. > > > > > > As per Owen Delong's below statement, it seems that he didn't conceal > > > that > > > he is a consultant for Cloud Innovation Ltd and that you ? perhaps ? > > > chose > > > not to print that information in the D?fimedia [1] article. > > > > > > For the sake of transparency, can you tell us whether Owen's > > > professional > > > relationship with Cloud Innovation Ltd was disclosed to you or not? > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > -- > > > Ish Sookun > > > > > > [1] https://defimedia.info/litige-qui-menace-internet-laccusateur-contredit-afrinic > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, 3 August 2021 11:03:31 +04 Owen DeLong wrote: > > > > The fact that Patrice chose not to print it when he paraphrased my > > > > remarks > > > > does not mean that I did not disclose it to him. > > > > > > > > You are mistaken in believing that I concealed it or did not tell him. > > > > Perhaps you should ask him yourself why he did not disclose that CI is > > > > one > > > > of my consulting clients, which is exactly what I told him. > > > > > > > > Owen > > > > > > > > > On Aug 2, 2021, at 23:30 , Ish Sookun > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Owen, > > > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, 3 August 2021 07:38:35 +04 Owen DeLong via > > > > > Community-Discuss > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > >> Under such a circumstance, with so many customers and the company?s > > > > >> reputation on the line, the decision was made (well above my pay > > > > >> grade) > > > > >> that it was necessary to pursue legal remedies to protect the > > > > >> company > > > > >> from > > > > >> AFRINIC?s unreasonable actions. > > > > > > > > > > Don't you think you forgot to mention your affiliation with CI when > > > > > addressing to the journalist of D?fimedia newspaper [1] (Mauritius)? > > > > > I > > > > > refer to your> > > > > > > > > > > statement: > > > > > ? Le consultant am?ricain et sp?cialiste d?internet, Owen DeLong > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > ?galement souhait? r?agir. Il prend position en faveur de Cloud > > > > > Innovation. Dans un courriel adress? au D?fi Plus [...] Owen > > > > > DeLong > > > > > estime lui aussi que Cloud Innovation est dans son bon droit. ? > > > > > > > > > > Don't you think this piece of information was important to the > > > > > readers, > > > > > that you are on CI payroll and not an independent American > > > > > consultant & > > > > > Internet specialist saying that CI is right? > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Ish Sookun > > > > > > > > > > [1] https://defimedia.info/litige-qui-menace-internet-laccusateur-contredit-afrinic > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Community-Discuss mailing list > > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Community-Discuss mailing list > > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss From rfg at tristatelogic.com Wed Aug 4 06:34:20 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2021 23:34:20 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <76664.1628058860@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In message , Owen DeLong wrote: >> Stop lying and stop putting words into the mouth of the judge. The court >> has rendered -no- opinion on the "likely judgment in the case". > >Oh, really? My understanding is that such an asset seizure is generally only >granted if there is reasonable probability of the case succeeding in the judges >estimation. What can I say? You are misinformed. It won't be the first time. The merits of AFRINIC's case have not even been considered yet. Like not at all. If you believe otherwise, then prove it. Regards, rfg From abscoco at gmail.com Wed Aug 4 06:47:17 2021 From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain Baya) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2021 07:47:17 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments In-Reply-To: <75883.1628043006@segfault.tristatelogic.com> References: <354F6704-0224-4525-B26B-D9B259FB2716@delong.com> <75883.1628043006@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: Dear AfriNIC's Community, Please see my comment below, inline... Le mer. 4 ao?t 2021 ? 3:10 AM, Ronald F. Guilmette a ?crit : > In message <354F6704-0224-4525-B26B-D9B259FB2716 at delong.com>, > Owen DeLong wrote: > > >> Show me where AFRINIC took *any* action to in any way remove any of its > >> bank assets or to place any of them in any place outside of the > jurisdiction > >> of, or beyond the control of the court. > > > >AFRINIC has relatively limited income. They have a burn rate that is not > far > >from their income. Their day to day expenses, especially in light of their > >propensity for board travel, etc. could easily be used to dissipate a > substantial > >fraction of their current holdings... > > That's bullshit. The entire AFRINIC budget for 2015, which I saw, was > something just a bit north of $4 million USD. Hi Ronald, Thanks for your email, brother. ...i add the source[1], to give an opportunity to everyone to check by themselves. __ [1]: ...exact budget revenue for 2015 is: $4,135,783 ...exact budget revenue for 2021 is: $6,067,875 Shalom, --sb. I suspect that the > organization proabbly has at least 1/4 of that amount on hand and in > the bank at any given time to pay expenses. > > So where exactly do you think the jet-setting board members are going to > fly off to that is going to cost even a "substantial fraction" of that? > Mars? > > Owen, the more you talk, the more laughable and the more extreme you get. > > >which fall well short of what the courts > >consider to be a likely judgment in the case. > > Stop lying and stop putting words into the mouth of the judge. The court > has rendered -no- opinion on the "likely judgment in the case". Indeed, > the court hasn't even begun to consider the merits of the case. All that > has happened is that one judge made a decision to do exactly and only > what Lu Heng's high-priced and undoubtedly well-connected Appleby lawyer > asked that judge to do, and only in a one-sided EX PARTE context, where > only one side was even present to argue its side of things. > > That's not even a remotely fair way to decide such weighty and > consequential > matters, and it reeks like a whore house at low tide. > > >>> The only reason the restraint "threatens" the > >>> existence of the organization is because the organizations finances > have > >>> not been arranged in a proper way. > >> > >> That is also bullshit. > > > >Not entirely so, no. > > Prove it. > > Where is the actual evidence that AFRINIC's "finances have not been > arranged > in a proper way"? > > It is "put up or shut up" time, for ALL of the speculative and false > assertions that have been made here, based on absoluetly -zero- actual > evidence. > > >The true value expressed in the law suit is $1.8 billion USD. > > Thank you for at least being honest about this one already known and > established public fact. > > > Regards, > rfg > > [...] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Wed Aug 4 08:01:23 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2021 01:01:23 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] South Africa ISPA Statement on Recent AFRINIC developments In-Reply-To: <2810422.VaIAjGeSES@coffee-bar> References: <66199.1627863590@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <2810422.VaIAjGeSES@coffee-bar> Message-ID: <3D22C6C3-CF54-40D2-8EA7-63270C2A0C43@delong.com> > On Aug 3, 2021, at 23:33 , Ish Sookun wrote: > > Owen, as per Patrice's reply, you did not say that Cloud Innovation Ltd is > your client. You said it is one of your company's client. Your company name > and affiliation is not mentioned in the article. Technically, Cloud Innovation is one of my company?s clients. My company is a one-man consulting company, so I make little distinction between my company?s clients and ?my client?s?. > Yes, you can again blame it on the journalist. That's very easy to do. I don?t really think there?s a need for balm at all. > However, you could have simply been true & honest by giving the information > upfront and clearly instructing Patrice that your affiliation be mentioned in > the article for transparency sake. Even if he missed it, you could have asked > for correction/update after you read the article. There are all kinds of things anyone can do. Whether or not it?s what I should have done, meh, I?m not convinced. I don?t normally announce all my clients when talking to a journalist (or anyone else for that matter). It?s not like anyone here doesn?t know my affiliation. Those who are determined to fined fault with my actions will do so whether there is fault to be found or not. Owen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From abscoco at gmail.com Wed Aug 4 08:22:50 2021 From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain Baya) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2021 09:22:50 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [afnog] Solidarity Message to AFRINIC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear AfriNIC's Community, FYI! The call for support, has been launched by the AfNOG's Secretariat today [1]. __ [1]: ...i expect that all the constituents of Af* follow...but, maybe there are more kind of support needed? Le mer. 4 ao?t 2021 ? 8:21 AM, nancy dotse a ?crit : > > > AfNOG Secretariat noted with interest and a lot of concern, the situation > AFRINIC is going through due to the challenges with one of its members. > > AfNOG and AFRINIC share the same community and leading the Af* which since > 1999 contributed to the emergence of many organizations and impacted > positively the development of the Internet in Africa. > > We always called for and encouraged all efforts toward a responsible > distribution and management of the community Internet Number Resources. As > such, AfNOG Secretariat is worried that a dispute on INRs allocation and > usage could not be resolved technically, nor through community approved > mechanisms or through arbitration and has become a matter of court cases > threatening AFRINIC's operations and even its existence. > > AfNOG?s secretariat has been following these developments carefully and > express its entire support to AFRINIC. > > We are also pleased to share the goodwill in our community in support of > AFRINIC. > AfNOG Secretariat has been with AFRINIC since its inception and call on > all to support AFRINIC in these difficult moments. > > We hope the court cases would be resolved quickly to enable AFRINIC focus > on its core mandate of allocation and management of internet numbers resources > for Africa. > > > > _______________________________________________ > afnog mailing list > https://www.afnog.org/mailman/listinfo/afnog Shalom, --sb. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From abscoco at gmail.com Wed Aug 4 11:05:14 2021 From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain Baya) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2021 12:05:14 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?=5Bripe-list=5D_INRs_War_=28was=3A_?= =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry_service_migration_to?= =?utf-8?q?_other_RIRs=29?= In-Reply-To: References: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> <77B645D6-93CA-4DF4-B44A-C1D64F0F69DF@consulintel.es> Message-ID: {apologies for crossposting} Dear RIPE-Lister, Hope you are well. Please see my comments below, inline... Le mar. 3 ao?t 2021 ? 10:07 AM, Daniel Karrenberg a ?crit : > > > On 2 Aug 2021, at 20:45, Randy Bush wrote: > > > ignore the lies and escalation. it is just designed to > > create doubt and confusion. > > > Could not agree more. Hi Daniel, Thanks for your email, brother. ...this is an *INRs War*. it's no more only about few/full lies. It seems as AfriNIC is just the first step... This guy quotes his very own comment on Rob > Blokzijl?s obituary and puts his own words in the mouth of Rob who > cannot do anything about it anymore. He even puts this ?quote? in > the charter of his new anti-RIR club. Distasteful. A disgrace. > > ...from the home page of the NRA: ~?~ NUMBER RESOURCES SOCIETY "RIR is just a bookkeeper" - Rob Blokzijl Obituary IP addresses or number resources are crucial assets that allow every person in the world to access the Internet. These precious assets are managed and registered by Regional Internet Registries (RIRs). Unfortunately, these organizations can only act as bookkeepers and distributors of IP space, not regulators or owners. That said, it is important to raise awareness about this fact, as Number Resource Members. ~?~ The charter against the Internet Number Registry System has been saved here : Shalom, --sb. > Just ignore the lies! > > Daniel > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Wed Aug 4 14:39:03 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2021 17:39:03 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: [members-discuss] African IXP Association Statement Regarding AFRINIC Bank Account Freeze In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Kyle Spencer Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2021, 17:15 Subject: [members-discuss] African IXP Association Statement Regarding AFRINIC Bank Account Freeze To: members-discuss Dear AFRINIC and fellow members of the community, Below (and attached) is the African IXP Association's statement regarding the freezing of AFRINIC's bank accounts in response to the litigation initiated by Cloud Innovation Ltd. A copy of this statement can also be found at the following URL: https://www.af-ix.net/news/2021/08/statement-regarding-afrinic-bank-account-freeze The Arabic, French, and Portuguese translations were voluntarily contributed by the members of our community. Regards, Kyle Spencer #### BEGINNING OF STATEMENT #### To whom it may concern, We, the African IXP Association (Af-IX), are writing in reference to the freezing of AFRINIC's bank accounts in response to litigation initiated by Cloud Innovation Ltd. Our membership consists of 47 Internet Exchange Points (IXPs) in 35 countries that collectively function as the core of Africa?s Internet ecosystem which approximately 452 million people use on a daily basis. The African IXP Association recognises AFRINIC as the Regional Internet Registry (RIR) for Africa. AFRINIC has served our region since 2005 through a community-led ?bottom-up? process. As the RIR, it manages key technical resources and services that are essential to the development and operation of the critical Internet infrastructure that our members provide. This includes, but is not limited to, the delegation and management of Internet Protocol (IP) addresses; the WHOIS service; and the publication of Reverse DNS zones. The freezing of AFRINIC?s bank accounts prevents it from paying its own staff and operational costs including third party services which include, but are not limited to, data center colocation and Internet bandwidth. If AFRINIC?s bank accounts remain frozen, it could be evicted from third-party data centers, disconnected from the Internet, or otherwise rendered incapable of delivering the services which our members and the regional Internet depend on. While our members? infrastructure, and the Internet more generally, is engineered to endure brief outages of these services, a protracted outage would have a significant impact on the security and stability of Africa?s telecommunications ecosystem as well as the region?s short and long term economic, social, and political landscape. We are also concerned that this action has severely limited AFRINIC?s ability to defend itself against litigation which could potentially destabilize or even bankrupt the organization. In light of the above, we urge the courts of Mauritius to allow AFRINIC to access its bank accounts in a manner that addresses these concerns and reasonably protects the interests of all stakeholders during the legal proceedings. We hope that the above contributions prove useful in your deliberations. If you have any questions or would like to discuss any aspect of this letter in more detail, please do not hesitate to contact us. Regards, The African IXP Association (AFIX) _______________________________________________ Members-Discuss mailing list Members-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: AFIX - AFRINIC Statement - Arabic.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 75673 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: AFIX - AFRINIC Statement - English.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 64051 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: AFIX - AFRINIC Statement - Portuguese.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 67179 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: AFIX - AFRINIC Statement - French.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 65173 bytes Desc: not available URL: From abscoco at gmail.com Wed Aug 4 16:27:25 2021 From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain Baya) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2021 17:27:25 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?_Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registr?= =?utf-8?q?y_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: <77B645D6-93CA-4DF4-B44A-C1D64F0F69DF@consulintel.es> References: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> <77B645D6-93CA-4DF4-B44A-C1D64F0F69DF@consulintel.es> Message-ID: Dear AfriNIC's Community, Please see my comments below, inline... Le dimanche 1 ao?t 2021, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss < community-discuss at afrinic.net> a ?crit : > Hi Noah, > > > > Hi Jordi, Thanks for your email, brother. > Your interpretation on this is wrong. > > > > ...imho! it's not so clear who is wrong, though :-/ > Read my detailed email a few days ago. > > > > 11.4 Allows the Board to define any policy regarding Internet Resources > that they believe is urgently needed. > > > > ...no! it allows the BoD to *submit* a DPP (not to *ratify*), under critical circonstances. It makes a huge difference, for me :-/ ...yes! now, the BoD has also the right to act, promptly in case of crisis. The BoD becomes more accountable, with such additional freedom. The BoD is allowed to varying the process in time of crisis. They had two alternatives...they did it, imho. It's also worth noting that PDP prevail for Policy Development. > This can be implemented ASAP the Board decides. The Board MUST also send > the policy (11.5), as a policy proposal (because is the only way the PDWG > works to reach consensus), > > > > ...brother, it can not be a policy, but a DPP. Right? > > to the PDWG for endorsement in the next meeting. If the PPM doesn?t > endorse it, then the Policy will decay, but whatever happened meanwhile, > will be ?legal? in terms of the PDP. > > > > ...it remains a DPP submitted by the BoD. If adopted by the PDWG, it has to be ratified by the BoD, then implemented by the Staff as a new policy and finally added to the CPM. > Now the question here is: > > > > Right now, i don't see the need for an Inter RIR transfer policy...too risky! as an IPv4 cost $30; according to nra.help :'-( adding that it's now a *"valuable asset" owned by resource holders*. ...things have changed since RFG shared the results of his valuable researchs. Since then, it appears that AfriNIC has recovered a number of IPv4 blocks...part of the IPv4 which have been, sadly, misappropriated are still on the pipe...and also, it's possible to add a maximum of two /11 and two /12 to the available IPv4 regional pool soon... ...right now, the problem to solve seems to be: ~?~ How to protect the INRs assigned to AfriNIC to support the growth of its service region? ~?~ Shalom, --sb. > 1. From past experience in the other RIRs, implementing such Inter-RIR > policy, takes a minimum of 6 months, probably even more (it took 12 months > in other RIRs), because there is a need to coordinate all the RIR systems. > AFRINIC can?t ?force? other RIRs to change their own agendas and workflows > to address all the changes ?faster?. AFRINIC could be lucky and because all > the other 4 RIRs already passed by this several times, may be the process > is so much ?adjusted? and fine tunned that it may be faster. > 2. I already suggested many times the Board to do that, when I saw > that the consensus was not achievable. They ignored that. So I don?t think > they want to pass this now, more when there are several proposals in > discussion and could be discussed in a PPM in a couple of months from now, > the AC reconstituted, and the appeals resolved, etc. > 3. The Board can meanwhile, take measures so the implementation of a > possible ?system? for an Inter-RIR proposal is advanced, in hope that one > way or the other a proposal reach consensus. > 4. All that said, I expect that if the Board decides to draft that > proposal/policy, they make sure that there is a clear statement that > ensures that before any transfer, there is a confirmation of the resources > being transferred are following the existing conditions in the RSA, CPM, > etc., otherwise. > > > > Regards, > > Jordi > > @jordipalet > > > > [...] > > -- -- Best Regards ! __ baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]| Subscribe to Mailing List: __ #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|#?Romains15?:33?Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec vous tous! ?#?Amen?!? ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement? ?Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!?(#Psaumes42:2) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Wed Aug 4 17:03:58 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2021 20:03:58 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Fwd=3A_ISOC=E2=80=99s_statement_on_?= =?utf-8?q?AFRINIC?= Message-ID: Community the Internet Society has spoken. See below. ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Dawit Bekele Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2021, 19:38 Subject: [afnog] ISOC?s statement on AFRINIC To: Afnog Hi all, Please find ISOC?s statement on AFRINIC: https://www.internetsociety.org/news/statements/2021/internet-society-statement-on-potential-destabilization-of-the-internet-in-africa/ Regards, Dawit _______________________________________________ afnog mailing list https://www.afnog.org/mailman/listinfo/afnog -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eddy at afrinic.net Wed Aug 4 20:02:50 2021 From: eddy at afrinic.net (Eddy Kayihura) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 00:02:50 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Update 04 Aug 2021 References: <4010F94B-25DB-413A-8EB8-9F8AFE1DFB60@afrinic.net> Message-ID: <9A82D2AD-08F1-44C8-A69C-2BF91401C691@afrinic.net> Dear Colleagues, Please see the update below. Kind regards, Eddy Begin forwarded message: > From: Eddy Kayihura > Date: 5 August 2021 at 00:00:43 GMT+4 > To: AfriNIC Discuss > Subject: [members-discuss] Update 04 Aug 2021 > > ?Dear Colleagues, > > There was no decision made in court today, next court hearing has been set for the upcoming Friday August 13. > > We continue with the plan and we will update you soon. > > Keep strong as we journey this season. > > Thanks, > > > Chers coll?gues, > > Aucune d?cision n'a ?t? rendue au tribunal aujourd'hui, la prochaine audience du tribunal a ?t? fix?e au vendredi 13 ao?t prochain. > > Nous continuons avec le plan et nous vous mettrons ? jour bient?t. > > Restez forts pendant que nous traversons cette saison. > > Merci, > > > Caros colegas, > > N?o houve decis?o no tribunal hoje, a pr?xima audi?ncia foi marcada para sexta-feira, 13 de agosto. > > Continuamos com o plano e iremos atualiz?-lo em breve. > > Mantenha-se forte durante nossa jornada nesta temporada. > > Obrigado, > > ?????? ???????? > > ?? ??? ????? ?? ???? ?? ??????? ????? ? ?? ????? ???? ??????? ??????? ??? ?????? ?????? 13 ?????. > > ????? ????? ?????? ??????? ??????. > > ???? ??? ????? ????? ?????? ??? ??????. > > ????? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Wed Aug 4 23:39:17 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2021 16:39:17 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?ISOC=E2=80=99s_statement_on_AFRINIC?= In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9472CB8E-4C97-433A-9828-4EB2F4BCF867@delong.com> That is neutral non-committal doublespeak that could make an American politician proud. They take no side. They neither express support nor condemnation for AFRINIC?s actions in this process. I would hardly call that a statement of support. Owen > On Aug 4, 2021, at 10:03 , Noah wrote: > > Community the Internet Society has spoken. > > See below. > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > From: Dawit Bekele > > Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2021, 19:38 > Subject: [afnog] ISOC?s statement on AFRINIC > To: Afnog > > Hi all, > > Please find ISOC?s statement on AFRINIC: https://www.internetsociety.org/news/statements/2021/internet-society-statement-on-potential-destabilization-of-the-internet-in-africa/ > Regards, > > Dawit > > _______________________________________________ > afnog mailing list > https://www.afnog.org/mailman/listinfo/afnog _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Thu Aug 5 02:37:50 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 05:37:50 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] History Lesson -- Looting AFRINIC -- The Beginning In-Reply-To: <76552.1628057777@segfault.tristatelogic.com> References: <76552.1628057777@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Aug 2021, 09:20 Ronald F. Guilmette, wrote: > > I just wanted everyone to be aware of the history here. Going all of the > way back to 2013 it appears clear that certain non-Africans have been > eager to get their hands on these valuable "natural resources" of Africa, > using ANY MEANS NECESSARY, and that once having obtained these 21st century > blood diamonds, they were very much in a hurry to move them out of Africa > and get them to market as quickly as possible. > Lu fits the bill as well. The lad literary refers to IPv4 as Gold. Apparently to him its better than bitcoin so forget the blood diamonds. Dude active In Nigeria currently soliciting for support from few ISP's who he is promising millions of Naira. > Now here we are, here, eight years later, in 2021. Has anything changed? Nothing considering how Mr.Vapourware is fighting to defend the loot. Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From b.sowers154 at gmail.com Thu Aug 5 03:50:40 2021 From: b.sowers154 at gmail.com (Brian Sowers) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2021 23:50:40 -0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Update 04 Aug 2021 Message-ID: <802C418C-DC68-42B2-8798-F9A57EBC3F59@gmail.com> Sooo in reading between the lines AFRINIC, in its defense against this lawsuit, failed to offer any exculpatory evidence to unfreeze its bank account. The court is simply adjourning a week and a half later to deliberate again. This is part of the legal bureaucratic headache I?ve criticized AFRINIC for finding finding itself in. It is not conducive to operations at large (the *internet* in *africa*) and short-term financial expedients cannot be sustained forever. If AFRINIC simply had kept the internet free for use, it would not find itself in this predicament. I appreciate this update from Eddy, but it doesn?t offer any hope to pro-AFRINICs other than a false optimism that AFRINIC builds an argument in the meantime to be even able to access its own funds. It?s ridiculously in denial to the point of having to ask what other alternatives there are to AFRINIC. Africa, let?s use RIPE for the global internet?s sake. -Brian From noah at neo.co.tz Thu Aug 5 07:02:26 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 10:02:26 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Update 04 Aug 2021 In-Reply-To: <802C418C-DC68-42B2-8798-F9A57EBC3F59@gmail.com> References: <802C418C-DC68-42B2-8798-F9A57EBC3F59@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Aug 2021, 07:05 Brian Sowers, wrote: > The court is simply adjourning a week and a half later to deliberate > again. Legal proceedings are never rushed. I appreciate this update from Eddy, but it doesn?t offer any hope to > pro-AFRINICs other than a false optimism that AFRINIC builds an argument in > the meantime to be even able to access its own funds. Perhaps you missed all the Pro-AFRINIC public statements that various African Internet bodies made in support of AFRINIC. AFRINIC might not be able to access its own funds today but that does not mean that there are no other alternatives. AFRINIC during her inception in the earlier days had no money. AFRINIC was supported financially by African Institutions to operate and perhaps this is the part of Pro-AFRINIC history you do not know about. what other alternatives there are to AFRINIC. Africa, > The Af* organisations that have collaborated with AFRINIC for over 20 years including African Governments. AFRINIC is not alone as it forms part of the Af* organisations that are willing to come together and support AFRINIC through financial donation so as to continue running its core functions and operations. The ISP associations are the other alternative and ANGOLA ISPA, TISPA, multiple IXPs across Africa and all those Af* organisations and NRENs and other members of the wider Internet community in Africa. The donations shall start with even myself as an individual. I just need to know which 3rd party supplier AFRINIC uses and I will make payments to them directly online via VISA or MASTERCARD. That is "Ubuntu". Cheers Noah > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jordi.palet at consulintel.es Thu Aug 5 07:23:11 2021 From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2021 09:23:11 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s__registr?= =?utf-8?q?y_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> <77B645D6-93CA-4DF4-B44A-C1D64F0F69DF@consulintel.es> Message-ID: Hi Sylvain, 11.4 literally says policy not DPP. Also ready 11.5, otherwise you are taking it out of context. Dear AfriNIC's Community, Please see my comments below, inline... Le dimanche 1 ao?t 2021, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss a ?crit : Hi Noah, Hi Jordi, Thanks for your email, brother. Your interpretation on this is wrong. ...imho! it's not so clear who is wrong, though :-/ Read my detailed email a few days ago. 11.4 Allows the Board to define any policy regarding Internet Resources that they believe is urgently needed. ...no! it allows the BoD to *submit* a DPP (not to *ratify*), under critical circonstances. It makes a huge difference, for me :-/ ...yes! now, the BoD has also the right to act, promptly in case of crisis. The BoD becomes more accountable, with such additional freedom. The BoD is allowed to varying the process in time of crisis. They had two alternatives...they did it, imho. It's also worth noting that PDP prevail for Policy Development. This can be implemented ASAP the Board decides. The Board MUST also send the policy (11.5), as a policy proposal (because is the only way the PDWG works to reach consensus), ...brother, it can not be a policy, but a DPP. Right? to the PDWG for endorsement in the next meeting. If the PPM doesn?t endorse it, then the Policy will decay, but whatever happened meanwhile, will be ?legal? in terms of the PDP. ...it remains a DPP submitted by the BoD. If adopted by the PDWG, it has to be ratified by the BoD, then implemented by the Staff as a new policy and finally added to the CPM. Now the question here is: Right now, i don't see the need for an Inter RIR transfer policy...too risky! as an IPv4 cost $30; according to nra.help :'-( adding that it's now a *"valuable asset" owned by resource holders*. ...things have changed since RFG shared the results of his valuable researchs. Since then, it appears that AfriNIC has recovered a number of IPv4 blocks...part of the IPv4 which have been, sadly, misappropriated are still on the pipe...and also, it's possible to add a maximum of two /11 and two /12 to the available IPv4 regional pool soon... ...right now, the problem to solve seems to be: ~?~ How to protect the INRs assigned to AfriNIC to support the growth of its service region? ~?~ Shalom, --sb. 1. From past experience in the other RIRs, implementing such Inter-RIR policy, takes a minimum of 6 months, probably even more (it took 12 months in other RIRs), because there is a need to coordinate all the RIR systems. AFRINIC can?t ?force? other RIRs to change their own agendas and workflows to address all the changes ?faster?. AFRINIC could be lucky and because all the other 4 RIRs already passed by this several times, may be the process is so much ?adjusted? and fine tunned that it may be faster. 2. I already suggested many times the Board to do that, when I saw that the consensus was not achievable. They ignored that. So I don?t think they want to pass this now, more when there are several proposals in discussion and could be discussed in a PPM in a couple of months from now, the AC reconstituted, and the appeals resolved, etc. 3. The Board can meanwhile, take measures so the implementation of a possible ?system? for an Inter-RIR proposal is advanced, in hope that one way or the other a proposal reach consensus. 4. All that said, I expect that if the Board decides to draft that proposal/policy, they make sure that there is a clear statement that ensures that before any transfer, there is a confirmation of the resources being transferred are following the existing conditions in the RSA, CPM, etc., otherwise. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet [...] -- -- Best Regards ! __ baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]| Subscribe to Mailing List: __ #?LASAINTEBIBLE|#?Romains15:33?Que LE ?#?DIEU de ?#?Paix soit avec vous tous! ?#?Amen!? ?#?MaPri?re est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement ?Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!?(#Psaumes42:2) _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.wollner at africaoncloud.net Thu Aug 5 07:30:40 2021 From: paul.wollner at africaoncloud.net (Paul Wollner) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2021 09:30:40 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Joint statement on the current AFRINIC situation from the African Regional RENs In-Reply-To: <8F1CBAA10BE6EA4993D754EAAC5E5F3CFFB8D380@erica.tenet.local> References: <8F1CBAA10BE6EA4993D754EAAC5E5F3CFFB8D380@erica.tenet.local> Message-ID: <17b1538a968.f860287925330.8913469678749135596@africaoncloud.net> Hello Len,Thank you for the clarification on the statement.?RegardsPaul---- On Wed, 04 Aug 2021 15:03:35 +0200 Len Lotz wrote ---- Dear All ? A recent statement on the AfriNIC members-discuss mailing list, in which the UbuntuNet Alliance and the other two African regional research and education networks purport to act "as representatives of the African REN community", was issued without consultation by UbuntuNet with TENET, and does? not reflect TENET's position on the issue. TENET endorses without reservation the statement on this matter by the South African Internet Service Providers Association (https://ispa.org.za/press_releases/ispa-statement-on-recent-afrinic-developments/) which was issued by ISPA after consultation with its members, of which TENET is one. ? Regards Len ? -- Len Lotz Excutive Officer Tertiary Education & Research Network of South Africa NPC Mobile: +27(82)739-3600 http://www.tenet.ac.za/contact ? ? _______________________________________________ Members-Discuss mailing list Members-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1.png Type: image/png Size: 3608 bytes Desc: not available URL: From abscoco at gmail.com Thu Aug 5 08:39:39 2021 From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain Baya) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 09:39:39 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?_Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registr?= =?utf-8?q?y_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> <77B645D6-93CA-4DF4-B44A-C1D64F0F69DF@consulintel.es> Message-ID: Dear AfriNIC's Community, Please see my comments below, inline... Le jeudi 5 ao?t 2021, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss < community-discuss at afrinic.net> a ?crit : > Hi Sylvain, > > Hi Jordi, Thanks for replying, brother. > 11.4 literally says policy not DPP. > > ...exact, brother! but, btw, what is the lifecycle of a DPP? That's my point :-/ It simply appears that they used inappropriate terms, as you can see. > Also ready 11.5, otherwise you are taking it out of context. > > > > Ok! thanks ~?~ [...] 11.4) Notwithstanding the provisions of Article 11.3 above, the Board may adopt such policies regarding the management of internet number resources where it considers that the same is necessary and urgent, having regard to the proper and responsible usage of these resources. [Amended at the 2020 AGMM] 11.5) Endorsement of the policy adopted by the Board: 1. Any policy adopted by the Board under the provisions of Article11.4 shall be submitted to the community for endorsement at the next public policy meeting. 2. In the event that such a policy submitted by the Board is not endorsed, the said policy shall not be enforced or implemented following its non-endorsement; however, any action taken in terms of the policy prior to such non-endorsement shall remain valid. 3. [...] ~?~ ...again, i understand it as a mean to varying the process...and i'm ok with it. If it's appropriately used, it could be a useful legal tool, same as CPM section 3.6. Now, in this context of variation of an existant PPD, which clearly define the lifecycle of a DPP, the BoD consider that they can adopt something. ...the thing can simply not be a policy; but a DPP. Are you getting me? again, a policy is a state of a DPP which has been submitted to the PDWG, get discussed during at least two weeks, get presented and discussed during PPM, get the decision of the PDWG's Chairs whether it reach the rough consensus or back to the list. If rough consensus is declared, it's sent to the list for a last call, during at least two weeks. If the consensus remains after that, it appears that the PDWG has *adopted* that DPP. Then a ratification report is sent to BoD, by the PDWG's Chairs, for consideration. Usually, the BoD ratify, but, exceptions occur. A ratified DPP becomes a Policy, then has to be implemented no more than six months after...when implemented it joins the other Policies into the CPM. ...i may be wrong, but those are the lines i have followed to reach to that conclusion. Hope this clarifies something. Shalom, --sb. > > > [...] > > > > > -- -- Best Regards ! __ baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]| Subscribe to Mailing List: __ #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|#?Romains15?:33?Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec vous tous! ?#?Amen?!? ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement? ?Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!?(#Psaumes42:2) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net Thu Aug 5 08:47:05 2021 From: Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net (Omo Oaiya) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 09:47:05 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Update 04 Aug 2021 In-Reply-To: References: <802C418C-DC68-42B2-8798-F9A57EBC3F59@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Aug 2021, 08:04 Noah, wrote: > > > On Thu, 5 Aug 2021, 07:05 Brian Sowers, wrote: > >> The court is simply adjourning a week and a half later to deliberate >> again. > > > Legal proceedings are never rushed. > > > I appreciate this update from Eddy, but it doesn?t offer any hope to >> pro-AFRINICs other than a false optimism that AFRINIC builds an argument in >> the meantime to be even able to access its own funds. > > > Perhaps you missed all the Pro-AFRINIC public statements that various > African Internet bodies made in support of AFRINIC. > > AFRINIC might not be able to access its own funds today but that does not > mean that there are no other alternatives. > > AFRINIC during her inception in the earlier days had no money. AFRINIC was > supported financially by African Institutions to operate and perhaps > this is the part of Pro-AFRINIC history you do not know about. > > > what other alternatives there are to AFRINIC. Africa, >> > > The Af* organisations that have collaborated with AFRINIC for over 20 > years including African Governments. > > AFRINIC is not alone as it forms part of the Af* organisations that are > willing to come together and support AFRINIC through financial donation so > as to continue running its core functions and operations. > > The ISP associations are the other alternative and ANGOLA ISPA, TISPA, > multiple IXPs across Africa and all those Af* organisations and NRENs and > other members of the wider Internet community in Africa. > > The donations shall start with even myself as an individual. I just need > to know which 3rd party supplier AFRINIC uses and I will make payments to > them directly online via VISA or MASTERCARD. > > That is "Ubuntu". > Great end Noah but the philosophy of humanism would be lost on sock puppets. Someone has already asked. Can Brian Sowers identify themselves? Has anyone ever met them? Omo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jordi.palet at consulintel.es Thu Aug 5 08:48:51 2021 From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2021 10:48:51 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s__registr?= =?utf-8?q?y_service_migration_to_other_RIRs?= In-Reply-To: References: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> <77B645D6-93CA-4DF4-B44A-C1D64F0F69DF@consulintel.es> Message-ID: The bylaws are plenty of evident mistakes ? Such as the understanding of the ?community?, or use of ?internet? instead of ?Internet?, etc. However the intent of 11.4 was ?to resolve an urgent problem in Internet resources? (not issues in the PDP itself): The Board is allowed to change the rules (policies) with immediate effect -> this is not a Draft Policy Proposal, but a *pre-ratified Policy* (or if you want to say it in a different way Board writes a policy and immediately ratify it in the next second after they ? the Board not the community - agree on the text). The immediate effect meand immediate implementation. Then, they are mandated to get the community endorsment. However the *only* way to get the community endorsement it is a DPP via the regular cicle. If that DPP fails to reach consensus, the the Board ratified and implemented policy falls, but whatever effect it has caused in the previous weeks/months, remain in effect. Dear AfriNIC's Community, Please see my comments below, inline... Le jeudi 5 ao?t 2021, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss a ?crit : Hi Sylvain, Hi Jordi, Thanks for replying, brother. 11.4 literally says policy not DPP. ...exact, brother! but, btw, what is the lifecycle of a DPP? That's my point :-/ It simply appears that they used inappropriate terms, as you can see. Also ready 11.5, otherwise you are taking it out of context. Ok! thanks ~?~ [...] 11.4) Notwithstanding the provisions of Article 11.3 above, the Board may adopt such policies regarding the management of internet number resources where it considers that the same is necessary and urgent, having regard to the proper and responsible usage of these resources. [Amended at the 2020 AGMM] 11.5) Endorsement of the policy adopted by the Board: i. Any policy adopted by the Board under the provisions of Article11.4 shall be submitted to the community for endorsement at the next public policy meeting. ii. In the event that such a policy submitted by the Board is not endorsed, the said policy shall not be enforced or implemented following its non-endorsement; however, any action taken in terms of the policy prior to such non-endorsement shall remain valid. iii. [...] ~?~ ...again, i understand it as a mean to varying the process...and i'm ok with it. If it's appropriately used, it could be a useful legal tool, same as CPM section 3.6. Now, in this context of variation of an existant PPD, which clearly define the lifecycle of a DPP, the BoD consider that they can adopt something. ...the thing can simply not be a policy; but a DPP. Are you getting me? again, a policy is a state of a DPP which has been submitted to the PDWG, get discussed during at least two weeks, get presented and discussed during PPM, get the decision of the PDWG's Chairs whether it reach the rough consensus or back to the list. If rough consensus is declared, it's sent to the list for a last call, during at least two weeks. If the consensus remains after that, it appears that the PDWG has *adopted* that DPP. Then a ratification report is sent to BoD, by the PDWG's Chairs, for consideration. Usually, the BoD ratify, but, exceptions occur. A ratified DPP becomes a Policy, then has to be implemented no more than six months after...when implemented it joins the other Policies into the CPM. ...i may be wrong, but those are the lines i have followed to reach to that conclusion. Hope this clarifies something. Shalom, --sb. [...] -- -- Best Regards ! __ baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]| Subscribe to Mailing List: __ #?LASAINTEBIBLE|#?Romains15:33?Que LE ?#?DIEU de ?#?Paix soit avec vous tous! ?#?Amen!? ?#?MaPri?re est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement ?Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!?(#Psaumes42:2) _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From abscoco at gmail.com Thu Aug 5 08:51:19 2021 From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain Baya) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 09:51:19 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] ICANN ( NRO ) vs LARUS (NRA) In-Reply-To: References: <512A3CAD-8AA5-4AF8-A86A-0D9BC52908EF@gmail.com> Message-ID: {excuse the late response, please!} Dear AfriNIC's Community, Le lundi 2 ao?t 2021, Mike Silber a ?crit : > Hi Sylvain > > Hi Mike, Thanks for your email, brother. ...i, first, have to apologize as my tone was not as usual. But it was not directed to an individual; but rather, it was another [*] general call to do what i did to learn more about the RIR system history [1][2] & the IN Registry system. __ [*]: [1]: [2]: I respectfully disagree. > > ...yes! your plain rights. > ICANN is a convenience through which the RIR?s operate. > > ...it's a bit difficult to disambiguate ICANN's relationships...it's easy to think the contrary true [3] :-/ i share more on it below, please. __ [3]: Open Letter to ICANN from the Regional Internet Registries, 6 NOV 2003 > The rest of the NRO recognised AfriNIC and could have done so without > ICANN involvement - had they so chosen. > > ...in 2005. As it is - the NRO fulfils the role of ASO within ICANN and it could > terminate the ASO / NRO nexus at any time with little to no impact. > > ...yes! ASO AC (1999) := NRO NC (2003) > Did you miss this in RFC 7020: > > Maybe other parts... ...not the text below! > The Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA) *is a role, not an > > organization*. For the Internet Numbers Registry System, the IANA > role manages the top of the IP address and AS number allocation > hierarchies. The Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and > Numbers (ICANN) *currently fulfills the IANA role" in accordance > with the IETF-ICANN "Memorandum of Understanding Concerning > Technical Work of the Internet Assigned Numbers Authority", > > > ...documented through RFC2860, in june 2000: Memorandum of Understanding Concerning the Technical Work of the Internet Assigned Numbers Authority ...in that MoU, IETF and ICANN agreed that The IANA will assign and register Internet protocol parameters... Those parameters include IP addresses & ASN ...with the DNS root zone, particularly the arpa. zone. > > which > was signed and ratified in March 2000 > > > It is the RIRs who chose ICANN and not the other way around. > ...i would have asked you to, please, elaborate, but i think, i could be satisfied by the content of the NRO MoU [4]. It shows a full attempt of independence... __ [4]: ...but, did they chose IANA? the role, sure :-) [ASOMOU] ICANN, "ICANN Address Supporting Organization (ASO) MoU", October 2004, . ...the companion RFC of RFC7020 is RFC7249: Internet Numbers Registries ~?~ Abstract RFC 7020 provides information about the Internet Numbers Registry System and how it is used in the distribution of autonomous system (AS) numbers and globally unique unicast Internet Protocol (IP) address space. This companion document identifies the IANA registries that are part of the Internet Numbers Registry System at this time. ~?~ ...i don't think we need to go back to the time when the IANA technical function was fully under US DoC/NTIA contract [5]...permit me to paste the below portion of text, from RFC7020, to conclude: ~?~ [...] The Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) currently fulfills the IANA role in accordance with the IETF-ICANN "Memorandum of Understanding Concerning Technical Work of the Internet Assigned Numbers Authority", which was signed and ratified in March 2000 [RFC2860 ]. In addition, ICANN performs the IANA services related to the IP address space and AS numbers according to global number resource policies that have been developed by the community and formalized under a Memorandum of Understanding between ICANN and the Regional Internet Registries [ASOMOU ] and documented in [ICANNv4 ], [ICANNv6 ], and [ICANNASN ]. [...] ~?~ It cites a MoU between ICANN & IETF/IAB about IANA role; back in march 2000; NRO was created on 24 october 2003 [4]. But ICP-2 [6] has been ratified by ICANN on 04 june 2001, so LACNIC enjoyed it first in 2002, then AfriNIC in 2005... ...ASO AC (1999) [7] predates NRO NC (2003). __ [5]: [6]: [7]: ...those public information are the base of my assertion...again, i admit that both the two directions could be proved to be true. But, icymi, *our* concern was about what Owen said, regarding ICANN. So, the same kind of thinking developed through nra.help... Hope this clarifies, something. Shalom, --sb. > Mike > > On 2 Aug 2021, at 14:49, Sylvain Baya wrote: > > Dear AfriNIC's Community, > > Le lundi 2 ao?t 2021, Noah a ?crit : > >> Hi Mike >> >> > Hi Noah, > > Thanks for your email, brother! > > ...it's time to learn about the RIR system's history. > > > >> Thank you for your reply and opinion on the matter. >> >> I am personally offended by Owens choice of words against ICANN. >> >> The existence of an RIR is only possible through ICANN ICP-2 and for him >> to refer to ICANN as a puppet is offending. >> >> AFRINIC would not have existed without the ICANN structures. >> > > > Exact! > > For those who need an anchor to start with, > please look at RFC7020: > > The Internet Numbers Registry System > > > > Shalom, > --sb. > > >> [...] >> > > -- -- Best Regards ! __ baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]| Subscribe to Mailing List: __ #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|#?Romains15?:33?Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec vous tous! ?#?Amen?!? ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement? ?Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!?(#Psaumes42:2) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Thu Aug 5 09:01:08 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 12:01:08 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Update 04 Aug 2021 In-Reply-To: References: <802C418C-DC68-42B2-8798-F9A57EBC3F59@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Aug 2021, 11:47 Omo Oaiya, wrote: > >> The donations shall start with even myself as an individual. I just need >> to know which 3rd party supplier AFRINIC uses and I will make payments to >> them directly online via VISA or MASTERCARD. >> >> That is "Ubuntu". >> > > Great end Noah but the philosophy of humanism would be lost on sock > puppets. > Most of the pseudo ghosts do not understand the history. They do not know that AFRINIC was born out of the collaboration of Af* organisations and the Internet community. They do not know that AFRINIC was financially sustained by AFRICAN organisations and the friends of the global Internet. They believe that they can rip AFRINIC off its limited finance which is mostly small contributions from less than 2000 LIRs and end users operating real Internet infrastructure across Africa for the benefit of our people. Their greed has led them to believe they can rip AFRINIC small income and also the number resources meant for the development of the African Internet Infrastructure. All friends of Africa will stand and support AFRINIC to run and operate its core functions like we did in the past. We will all make donations which Lu Heng will not have the means to grab in an attempt to avoid accountability. Cheers, Noah > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From silber.mike at gmail.com Thu Aug 5 09:02:06 2021 From: silber.mike at gmail.com (Mike Silber) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 11:02:06 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] ICANN ( NRO ) vs LARUS (NRA) In-Reply-To: References: <512A3CAD-8AA5-4AF8-A86A-0D9BC52908EF@gmail.com> Message-ID: <26CDE2D6-F99C-4EDD-937B-45EF1B38DB4A@gmail.com> I think we are in violent agreement my brother :-) > On 5 Aug 2021, at 10:51, Sylvain Baya wrote: > > {excuse the late response, please!} > Dear AfriNIC's Community, > > Le lundi 2 ao?t 2021, Mike Silber > a ?crit : > Hi Sylvain > > > Hi Mike, > Thanks for your email, brother. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From abscoco at gmail.com Thu Aug 5 09:30:16 2021 From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain Baya) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 10:30:16 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Share About Cloud Innovation Ltd and their business In-Reply-To: References: <4ad88a26-f9d2-7ec6-b5f7-1ef518092fa6@geier.ne.tz> <21421F9F-001E-43D3-A3EA-37184F4CE7F8@delong.com> <8430721b-7fcd-e6ec-8b20-b0af673ae9eb@geier.ne.tz> <82C1F7EE-9A34-4630-9C9C-B8AF73B6E147@consulintel.es> Message-ID: Dear AfriNIC's Community, Please see my comments below, inline... Le samedi 31 juillet 2021, Timothy Ola Akinfenwa < akin.akinfenwa at uniosun.edu.ng> a ?crit : > +1 Sylvain! > > Hi Timothy, Thanks for your support, brother :-) > > On Sat, Jul 31, 2021 at 12:48 AM Sylvain Baya wrote: > >> Dear AfriNIC's Community, >> >> >>> > [...] >>> >>> >> How come that INRs management becomes a >> matter of such secrets? >> >> Please Jordi or any other volunteer, let me know if >> you are willing to contribute to draft a DPP to >> remove the possibility of keeping such, apparently, >> unjustified secrets. >> > > I'm willing to contribute! > ...you are welcome! we have started here [1][2]. If you aren't already subscribed to the RDP (Resource Policy Discussion) mailinglist [3], please do it first then share your thoughts. __ [1]: [2]: see the thread view: [3]: ...if the project remains, you will be then added as a DPP co-author. Maybe you want to first read the PDP (Policy Development Process) [4]? __ [4]: CPM section 3.0: ...i look forward to meeting you on the RPD list. Shalom, --sb. > >> >> >>> > >>> > [...] >> >> >>> > Best regards, > <.ta/> > -- -- Best Regards ! __ baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]| Subscribe to Mailing List: __ #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|#?Romains15?:33?Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec vous tous! ?#?Amen?!? ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement? ?Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!?(#Psaumes42:2) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From abscoco at gmail.com Thu Aug 5 10:23:05 2021 From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain Baya) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 11:23:05 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] NRO MoU section 9. Advisory Appeals Process (was: ICANN ( NRO ) vs LARUS (NRA)) Message-ID: {start new thread from [*]} Dear AfriNIC's Community, Le jeudi 5 ao?t 2021, Mike Silber a ?crit : > I think we are in violent agreement my brother :-) > > Hi Mike, ...thanks for this last note, brother ;-) You know, the situation is critical, as an *army* has started to recruit here: nra.help; for its *INRs War* against RFC7020: thus, against all the Internet Numbers Registry System; starting by AfriNIC. While scrolling one [1] of those archives, i discovered that this regional RIR miss a policy to benefit, the arbitration tool provided to RIRs through the NRO MoU section 9; titled: Advisory Appeals Process. __ [*]: < https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-August/004667.html > [1]: Please Mike, but open to all, are you willing to check whether this could ameliorate, the addressing of conflictual relations between a regional RIR and its resource members? ...then, please, let me know if we could prepare a DPP to be submitted soon :-/ ~?~ 9. Advisory Appeals Process The NRO shall establish an NRO Advisory Appeals Panel, with one representative from each RIR region, but whose members shall not be employees or Board members of the RIRs. Advisory Appeals Panel members shall be knowledgeable members of the Internet community proposed for this role by the NRO Executive Council, for the purpose of hearing complaints relating to failure on the part of an RIR, the NRO or an NRO suborganization to follow its documented policy development process concerning global IP number resource policies. The panel shall not decide on the merit(s), or lack thereof regarding the underlying policies, but may provide a written report to the Executive Council indicating the Advisory Appeals Panel?s evaluation of the complaint. The Advisory Appeals Panel shall adopt such policies and procedures as are necessary to make it accessible and open, transparent and documented. These policies and procedures should include, but are not limited to, voluntary or requested recusal of representatives, procedures for reporting to the Executive Council, and procedures to address any allegation of fraudulent or dishonest conduct by representatives. The Advisory Appeals Panel, at its sole discretion, may dismiss frivolous, repetitive or nuisance complaints without further review. The Advisory Appeals Panel decision is intended to serve as a persuasive advisory opinion, and it provides no basis for legal action in any jurisdiction. ~?~ Shalom, --sb. > > On 5 Aug 2021, at 10:51, Sylvain Baya wrote: > > {excuse the late response, please!} > Dear AfriNIC's Community, > > Le lundi 2 ao?t 2021, Mike Silber a ?crit : > >> Hi Sylvain >> >> > Hi Mike, > Thanks for your email, brother. > > -- -- Best Regards ! __ baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]| Subscribe to Mailing List: __ #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|#?Romains15?:33?Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec vous tous! ?#?Amen?!? ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement? ?Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!?(#Psaumes42:2) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chresgoro at gmail.com Thu Aug 5 10:53:17 2021 From: chresgoro at gmail.com (Christian Orozco) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 18:53:17 +0800 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Update 04 Aug 2021 In-Reply-To: References: <802C418C-DC68-42B2-8798-F9A57EBC3F59@gmail.com> Message-ID: > > Legal proceedings are never rushed. > Yes, correct. But what circumstance could have caused the need to set it next week? One probable reason could be AFRINIC's incapacity to provide necessary documents/ evidence. We do not actually know, yet Brian still has a reason to doubt. The Af* organisations that have collaborated with AFRINIC for over 20 years > including African Governments > Indeed, there were instances that this collaboration is truly admirable. However, there's a lot at stake in AFRINIC's current situation. How certain are you that mere financial donation can suffice the challenge AFRINIC is facing? We should now be more attentive in keeping the internet's stability. And by that, we cannot just presume that AFRINIC will be able to go back on its feet easily and partake in such stability. On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at 3:03 PM Noah wrote: > > > On Thu, 5 Aug 2021, 07:05 Brian Sowers, wrote: > >> The court is simply adjourning a week and a half later to deliberate >> again. > > > Legal proceedings are never rushed. > > > I appreciate this update from Eddy, but it doesn?t offer any hope to >> pro-AFRINICs other than a false optimism that AFRINIC builds an argument in >> the meantime to be even able to access its own funds. > > > Perhaps you missed all the Pro-AFRINIC public statements that various > African Internet bodies made in support of AFRINIC. > > AFRINIC might not be able to access its own funds today but that does not > mean that there are no other alternatives. > > AFRINIC during her inception in the earlier days had no money. AFRINIC was > supported financially by African Institutions to operate and perhaps > this is the part of Pro-AFRINIC history you do not know about. > > > what other alternatives there are to AFRINIC. Africa, >> > > The Af* organisations that have collaborated with AFRINIC for over 20 > years including African Governments. > > AFRINIC is not alone as it forms part of the Af* organisations that are > willing to come together and support AFRINIC through financial donation so > as to continue running its core functions and operations. > > The ISP associations are the other alternative and ANGOLA ISPA, TISPA, > multiple IXPs across Africa and all those Af* organisations and NRENs and > other members of the wider Internet community in Africa. > > The donations shall start with even myself as an individual. I just need > to know which 3rd party supplier AFRINIC uses and I will make payments to > them directly online via VISA or MASTERCARD. > > That is "Ubuntu". > > Cheers > Noah > >> _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Thu Aug 5 11:10:13 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 14:10:13 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Joint statement on the current AFRINIC situation from the African Regional RENs In-Reply-To: <17b1538a968.f860287925330.8913469678749135596@africaoncloud.net> References: <8F1CBAA10BE6EA4993D754EAAC5E5F3CFFB8D380@erica.tenet.local> <17b1538a968.f860287925330.8913469678749135596@africaoncloud.net> Message-ID: Hi Len The community acknowledges TENET position and endorsement on the matter under the South Africa ISPA-ZA umbrella. What is equally more important to the wider NREN is that regional research and education networks interconnecting national research and education networks (NRENs) across the continent spoke in support of AFRINIC. Cheers Noah On Thu, 5 Aug 2021, 10:35 Paul Wollner, wrote: > Hello Len, > > Thank you for the clarification on the statement. > > Regards > Paul > > > > > > > ---- On Wed, 04 Aug 2021 15:03:35 +0200 Len Lotz wrote > ---- > > Dear All > > > > A recent statement on the AfriNIC members-discuss mailing list, in which the UbuntuNet Alliance and the other two African regional research and education networks purport to act "as representatives of the African REN community", was issued without consultation by UbuntuNet with TENET, and does not reflect TENET's position on the issue. TENET endorses without reservation the statement on this matter by the South African Internet Service Providers Association (https://ispa.org.za/press_releases/ispa-statement-on-recent-afrinic-developments/) which was issued by ISPA after consultation with its members, of which TENET is one. > > > > Regards > > Len > > > > -- > > *Len Lotz* > > Excutive Officer > Tertiary Education & Research Network of South Africa NPC > > Mobile: +27(82)739-3600 > http://www.tenet.ac.za/contact > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Members-Discuss mailing list > Members-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1.png Type: image/png Size: 3608 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dmurungi at wia.co.tz Thu Aug 5 11:18:27 2021 From: dmurungi at wia.co.tz (Murungi Daniel) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 14:18:27 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Update 04 Aug 2021 In-Reply-To: References: <802C418C-DC68-42B2-8798-F9A57EBC3F59@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7223C040-0B84-4C1F-A05E-9877EE678EBA@wia.co.tz> One probable reason could be that CI were caught with their pants down and requested for time to cook up a new story :) > On Aug 5, 2021, at 1:53 PM, Christian Orozco wrote: > > Legal proceedings are never rushed. > > Yes, correct. But what circumstance could have caused the need to set it next week? One probable reason could be AFRINIC's incapacity to provide necessary documents/ evidence. We do not actually know, yet Brian still has a reason to doubt. > > The Af* organisations that have collaborated with AFRINIC for over 20 years including African Governments > > Indeed, there were instances that this collaboration is truly admirable. However, there's a lot at stake in AFRINIC's current situation. How certain are you that mere financial donation can suffice the challenge AFRINIC is facing? We should now be more attentive in keeping the internet's stability. And by that, we cannot just presume that AFRINIC will be able to go back on its feet easily and partake in such stability. > > > > On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at 3:03 PM Noah > wrote: > > > On Thu, 5 Aug 2021, 07:05 Brian Sowers, > wrote: > The court is simply adjourning a week and a half later to deliberate again. > > Legal proceedings are never rushed. > > > I appreciate this update from Eddy, but it doesn?t offer any hope to pro-AFRINICs other than a false optimism that AFRINIC builds an argument in the meantime to be even able to access its own funds. > > Perhaps you missed all the Pro-AFRINIC public statements that various African Internet bodies made in support of AFRINIC. > > AFRINIC might not be able to access its own funds today but that does not mean that there are no other alternatives. > > AFRINIC during her inception in the earlier days had no money. AFRINIC was supported financially by African Institutions to operate and perhaps this is the part of Pro-AFRINIC history you do not know about. > > > what other alternatives there are to AFRINIC. Africa, > > The Af* organisations that have collaborated with AFRINIC for over 20 years including African Governments. > > AFRINIC is not alone as it forms part of the Af* organisations that are willing to come together and support AFRINIC through financial donation so as to continue running its core functions and operations. > > The ISP associations are the other alternative and ANGOLA ISPA, TISPA, multiple IXPs across Africa and all those Af* organisations and NRENs and other members of the wider Internet community in Africa. > > The donations shall start with even myself as an individual. I just need to know which 3rd party supplier AFRINIC uses and I will make payments to them directly online via VISA or MASTERCARD. > > That is "Ubuntu". > > Cheers > Noah > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net Thu Aug 5 11:30:36 2021 From: Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net (Omo Oaiya) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 12:30:36 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Joint statement on the current AFRINIC situation from the African Regional RENs In-Reply-To: References: <8F1CBAA10BE6EA4993D754EAAC5E5F3CFFB8D380@erica.tenet.local> <17b1538a968.f860287925330.8913469678749135596@africaoncloud.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Aug 2021, 12:11 Noah, wrote: > Hi Len > > The community acknowledges TENET position and endorsement on the matter > under the South Africa ISPA-ZA umbrella. > > What is equally more important to the wider NREN is that regional research > and education networks interconnecting national research and education > networks (NRENs) across the continent spoke in support of AFRINIC. > For information, there are currently 38 of such NRENs and counting, with 22 of them currently interconnected by these regional research networks. These RRENs are working with partners across Africa and elsewhere in their AfricaConnect3[1] to establish these national infrastructures which are key for development where they don't yet exist and interconnect them all. We certainly are not going to stand by and see the scant resources that are available ripped off. Omo 1: https://africaconnect3.net/ > Cheers > Noah > > > On Thu, 5 Aug 2021, 10:35 Paul Wollner, > wrote: > >> Hello Len, >> >> Thank you for the clarification on the statement. >> >> Regards >> Paul >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ---- On Wed, 04 Aug 2021 15:03:35 +0200 Len Lotz wrote >> ---- >> >> Dear All >> >> >> >> A recent statement on the AfriNIC members-discuss mailing list, in which the UbuntuNet Alliance and the other two African regional research and education networks purport to act "as representatives of the African REN community", was issued without consultation by UbuntuNet with TENET, and does not reflect TENET's position on the issue. TENET endorses without reservation the statement on this matter by the South African Internet Service Providers Association (https://ispa.org.za/press_releases/ispa-statement-on-recent-afrinic-developments/) which was issued by ISPA after consultation with its members, of which TENET is one. >> >> >> >> Regards >> >> Len >> >> >> >> -- >> >> *Len Lotz* >> >> Excutive Officer >> Tertiary Education & Research Network of South Africa NPC >> >> Mobile: +27(82)739-3600 >> http://www.tenet.ac.za/contact >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Members-Discuss mailing list >> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > _______________________________________________ > Members-Discuss mailing list > Members-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From abscoco at gmail.com Thu Aug 5 11:44:08 2021 From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain Baya) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 12:44:08 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Share About Cloud Innovation Ltd and their business In-Reply-To: <014477A4-1987-43FB-B8A8-A70B746B3A5A@delong.com> References: <31299.1627244609@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <745F630B-A186-481C-9704-BCA2A0869089@delong.com> <418e1240-bbaa-b658-43aa-dfd75fc769db@geier.ne.tz> <014477A4-1987-43FB-B8A8-A70B746B3A5A@delong.com> Message-ID: Dear AfriNIC's Community, Please see my comments below, inline... Le mardi 3 ao?t 2021, Owen DeLong a ?crit : > > > On Aug 2, 2021, at 00:03 , Sylvain Baya wrote: > > Dear AfriNIC's Community, > > Please see my comments below, inline... > > Le samedi 31 juillet 2021, Owen DeLong a ?crit : >> >> >> On Jul 30, 2021, at 15:14 , Sylvain Baya wrote: >> >> Dear AfriNIC's Community, >> >> Le mercredi 28 juillet 2021, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss < >> community-discuss at afrinic.net> a ?crit : >> >>> >>> >>>> >>>>> [...] >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> You?re not answering the question I asked? >>> >>> >> Hi Owen, >> Thanks for your email, brother! >> >> >> >>> What is your basis in policy for claiming that a VM is OK, but leasing >>> addresses without providing connectivity >>> services is not? >>> >>> >> ...you might have forgotten about a simple notion, >> called: conservation. You shall recognize it as it has >> been refered out there as *Reservations*. >> >> >> I have not forgotten, but we are not talking about reservation. >> >> > Hi Owen, > Thanks to take time to reply to my email, brother. > > ...so, *we*! i assume the same *we* you usually > use to call your team to support your personal interpretation of the > facts? > > > No, we is you and I, the people engaged in this particular conversational > thread. > > > Hi Owen, Thanks for your clarification, brother. ...so, you try to impose to all others a particular theme? Please, sir, how can i be removed from your pool? > > Btw, you are entitled to your own opinion. > > ...let's, at least, agree to disagree :-/ > > >> >> We are talking about deployment on an actual >> host connected to the internet for legitimate use. >> >> > > ...again, *we*:=you+your_supporting_team, brother? > > For what it's worth, in order to lease community's > ressources such as INRs, one shall *reserve* it first; > > > Um, that?s true whether one is leasing the INRs with or > Thanks to finally getting my point: you practice leasing on INRs, then you violate the RSA+CPM. ...because you have to *reserve*, given that you don't have any network to address hosts on or to define any administrative boundaries for or; so any distinctive routing policy to document... > without connnectivity services attached, so you have > either pointed out how we are identical to every other > LIR, or, you have both pointed this out _AND_ called > into question the standard practice of every LIR. > > ...straw man fallacy? > I?m not sure which is intended. > > otherwise, any of the end-users/clients shall come > to the Registration Service to request the needed > INRs; sure to find some there...and you know it: > > > We don?t do anything to interfere with or prevent end-users > or clients from seeking internet number resources from any > other source. > > ...please, sir, could you share your stats on the number of orgs, you have helped to become LIR since the time your org shipted from LIR to INRs seller? mini-RIR? or Global LIR? RFC7020 states: ~?~ [...] In cases where LIRs span multiple regions, those LIRs have established relationships with multiple RIRs. [...] ~?~ ...full part: ~?~ Local IRs Local Internet Registries (LIRs) are established through a relationship with the body from which they received their addresses, typically the RIR that serves the region in which they operate, a parent LIR, or other number-allocating entity. In cases where LIRs span multiple regions, those LIRs have established relationships with multiple RIRs. LIRs perform IP address allocation services for their customers, typically ISPs, end users, or child LIRs (also known as "sub-LIRs"). ~?~ ...this comes from your client's website: ~?~ [...] PROFESSIONAL SERVICE RIR Membership Management Service: Own Your IP Assets RIR MEMBERSHIP MANAGEMENT SERVICE LARUS will help you to become a RIR member and obtain your own IPv4 addresses for now and your future needs. With this specialized end-to-end solution, you will minimize the utilization risk, financial risk and policy risk. The IPv4 addresses become your asset and generate extra value for you. [...] Much Lower Cost The cost will be as low as 1/10 of the cost of getting the IP addresses from the transfer market. They will become your asset and generate revenue with new business and service. Owning your IP addresses will protect you from the surge of IP address cost in the future. [...] ~?~ > > > those must be incorporated within the AfriNIC's > service region...they would save a lot of money > comparing to what could be otherwise payed to > an intermediary *LIR*...not *GIR*... > > > Many LIRs operate on a global scale, including, for > ~?~ [...] In cases where LIRs span multiple regions, those LIRs have established relationships with multiple RIRs. [...] ~?~ > example, Verizon, Hurricane Electric, Akamai, and > more. The term LIR is primarily used not so much to > indicate some diminutive scope as to provide a convenient > distinction from RIR (regional, quasi-continental) or > NIR (National). > > ...brother, are you lieing? Please see the bit of texts from RFC7020, pasted above... :'-( ...i don't forget that it's, for you an *INRs War* against the RFC7020; thus against the entire Internet Numbers Registry System. Allow me to stop here. Shalom, --sb. > ...note that no AfriNIC's Resource Member is a GIR (Global Internet > Registry) but all are LIRs (Local > Internet Registries) established/approved to serve > their local economic zone and free to deploy their business accross the > whole AfriNIC's service > region, wherever they can extend it; legally speaking. > > > You are misunderstanding the nature of the term LIR here. > > There is nothing in AFRINIC?s governing documents which prohibits > its resource members from deploying their business across the entire > planet. If you believe that there is, please provide relevant citations > to the appropriate governing document(s). > > The difference? The only difference? Is that the >> connectivity service does not come from the same provider as the >> addresses. >> >> > ...if...then, please see above! > > > If what? > > You seem to read the CPM selectively, if not why could you ignore the > notion of valid assignments > and SAW. > > > SAW applies to sub allocations made from one LIR to another. Cloud > Innovation makes assignments > and does not make sub allocations, thus the SAW does not apply. > > As to ?valid assignments? where is it that you think these are defined? > Which section of the CPM > do you think I have ignored in considering Cloud Innovations assignments > valid? > > ...icymi, please see here: > > > > [...] > > Owen > [...] > > > -- -- Best Regards ! __ baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]| Subscribe to Mailing List: __ #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|#?Romains15?:33?Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec vous tous! ?#?Amen?!? ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement? ?Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!?(#Psaumes42:2) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ibeanusielvis at gmail.com Thu Aug 5 12:08:56 2021 From: ibeanusielvis at gmail.com (Ibeanusi Elvis) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 21:08:56 +0900 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Update 04 Aug 2021 In-Reply-To: <7223C040-0B84-4C1F-A05E-9877EE678EBA@wia.co.tz> References: <802C418C-DC68-42B2-8798-F9A57EBC3F59@gmail.com> <7223C040-0B84-4C1F-A05E-9877EE678EBA@wia.co.tz> Message-ID: There is nowhere or an incline mentioning that legal proceeding are rushed. We all know how legal proceedings work and know that it requires time to ascertain and make clear, definitive judgement and decision. Let's face the facts, AFRINIC is a terrible and difficult condition which one of the reason is due to some of the decisions that the organization made in the past. End of story. And also, you are not the only one that know about the history of AFRINIC and how it started. Additionally, @Noah the fact that some community members do not align with you or have the same opinion as you, does not make them ?pseudo ghosts? or ?sock puppets? or whatever name you might come up with. Learn to respect the opinions of others, no one is telling you to support it or promote it. Can I call you a GHOST as well cause we have different views? And by the ways, Thanks for your future donation. Well appreciated. Best regards, Elvis. > On Aug 5, 2021, at 20:18, Murungi Daniel via Community-Discuss wrote: > > One probable reason could be that CI were caught with their pants down and requested for time to cook up a new story :) > > >> On Aug 5, 2021, at 1:53 PM, Christian Orozco > wrote: >> >> Legal proceedings are never rushed. >> >> Yes, correct. But what circumstance could have caused the need to set it next week? One probable reason could be AFRINIC's incapacity to provide necessary documents/ evidence. We do not actually know, yet Brian still has a reason to doubt. >> >> The Af* organisations that have collaborated with AFRINIC for over 20 years including African Governments >> >> Indeed, there were instances that this collaboration is truly admirable. However, there's a lot at stake in AFRINIC's current situation. How certain are you that mere financial donation can suffice the challenge AFRINIC is facing? We should now be more attentive in keeping the internet's stability. And by that, we cannot just presume that AFRINIC will be able to go back on its feet easily and partake in such stability. >> >> >> >> On Thu, Aug 5, 2021 at 3:03 PM Noah > wrote: >> >> >> On Thu, 5 Aug 2021, 07:05 Brian Sowers, > wrote: >> The court is simply adjourning a week and a half later to deliberate again. >> >> Legal proceedings are never rushed. >> >> >> I appreciate this update from Eddy, but it doesn?t offer any hope to pro-AFRINICs other than a false optimism that AFRINIC builds an argument in the meantime to be even able to access its own funds. >> >> Perhaps you missed all the Pro-AFRINIC public statements that various African Internet bodies made in support of AFRINIC. >> >> AFRINIC might not be able to access its own funds today but that does not mean that there are no other alternatives. >> >> AFRINIC during her inception in the earlier days had no money. AFRINIC was supported financially by African Institutions to operate and perhaps this is the part of Pro-AFRINIC history you do not know about. >> >> >> what other alternatives there are to AFRINIC. Africa, >> >> The Af* organisations that have collaborated with AFRINIC for over 20 years including African Governments. >> >> AFRINIC is not alone as it forms part of the Af* organisations that are willing to come together and support AFRINIC through financial donation so as to continue running its core functions and operations. >> >> The ISP associations are the other alternative and ANGOLA ISPA, TISPA, multiple IXPs across Africa and all those Af* organisations and NRENs and other members of the wider Internet community in Africa. >> >> The donations shall start with even myself as an individual. I just need to know which 3rd party supplier AFRINIC uses and I will make payments to them directly online via VISA or MASTERCARD. >> >> That is "Ubuntu". >> >> Cheers >> Noah >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jcurran at arin.net Thu Aug 5 12:16:14 2021 From: jcurran at arin.net (John Curran) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 12:16:14 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] NRO MoU section 9. Advisory Appeals Process (was: ICANN ( NRO ) vs LARUS (NRA)) Message-ID: On 5 Aug 2021, at 6:23 AM, Sylvain Baya > wrote: ... Please Mike, but open to all, are you willing to check whether this could ameliorate, the addressing of conflictual relations between a regional RIR and its resource members? ... 9. Advisory Appeals Process The NRO shall establish an NRO Advisory Appeals Panel, with one representative from each RIR region, but whose members shall not be employees or Board members of the RIRs. Advisory Appeals Panel members shall be knowledgeable members of the Internet community proposed for this role by the NRO Executive Council, for the purpose of hearing complaints relating to failure on the part of an RIR, the NRO or an NRO suborganization to follow its documented policy development process concerning global IP number resource policies. Hello Sylvain - The Advisory Appeals Process provides for review of disputes regarding an RIR which fails to follow "its documented _policy development process concerning global IP number resource policies_? (emphasis added) Global IP number resource policies are those processes which are used by the IANA function operator when issuing IP number resources from the global unallocated pool to each RIR, and as such the scope of the Advisory Appeals Panel is quite narrow and does not extend to disputes within an individual RIR on regional policy development or regional registry administration issues. Best wishes, /John John Curran President and CEO American Registry for Internet Numbers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Thu Aug 5 12:39:33 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 15:39:33 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Update 04 Aug 2021 In-Reply-To: References: <802C418C-DC68-42B2-8798-F9A57EBC3F59@gmail.com> <7223C040-0B84-4C1F-A05E-9877EE678EBA@wia.co.tz> Message-ID: Oga Elvis, On Thu, 5 Aug 2021, 15:14 Ibeanusi Elvis, wrote: > > Can I call you a GHOST as well cause we have different views? > No you can not because I am still alive with a heart pumping, breath gasping, warm body and I know you are not a Ghost as well because I have seen your CV when you attempted to become a Co-Chair. As for your views, I actually don't agree with all of them and I am ok that you also don't agree with me as well but at least we are not Ghosts. I was referring to the sock-puppets of this world, those ones who don't have the guts to state who they are or their affiliations. Cheers, Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dmurungi at wia.co.tz Thu Aug 5 12:41:43 2021 From: dmurungi at wia.co.tz (Murungi Daniel) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 15:41:43 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Update 04 Aug 2021 In-Reply-To: References: <802C418C-DC68-42B2-8798-F9A57EBC3F59@gmail.com> <7223C040-0B84-4C1F-A05E-9877EE678EBA@wia.co.tz> Message-ID: <9A04F9C4-5BD2-4B2C-ACF8-0B294759AEC2@wia.co.tz> Dear Elvis, > Let's face the facts, AFRINIC is a terrible and difficult condition which one of the reason is due to some of the decisions that the organization made in the past. Not this crap again. Whereas you are entitled to your opinion, stop spewing misinformation. Regards, Murungi Daniel From noah at neo.co.tz Thu Aug 5 12:57:16 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 15:57:16 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] A Response to RFG on Matters AFRINIC In-Reply-To: <73927.1628001447@segfault.tristatelogic.com> References: <73927.1628001447@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: Hi Ronald, Allow me to respond to your email which I found very touching and extremely useful. On Tue, 3 Aug 2021, 17:44 Ronald F. Guilmette, wrote: > In message > outlook.com>, AMADU YUSIF wrote: > > >Well, done REN. This is what we expect from likeminded community in > support > >of AFRINIC no matter what the situation is. We are Africans and must > protect > >what is ours not transferring your resources to different region/Network. > >We must fight together and together we shall win. > > I'm sorry to say it, but I don't believe that Africans know how to fight > or win this battle. > To win a battle you must be informed. Ignorance is at play to a greater extent. FWIW, there are those who have made the effort to shade light to the current predicament which is fundamentally undermining the collaborative Internet registry system. > You are not really looking at what the other side is doing or how it is > doing it, so you are not learning from their example. > What I found interesting with Lu Heng is the fact that he effectively went on the record on mybroadband in South Africa to make some cheap claims like helping schools in Africa.... #DeadAid (Read the book by Zambian Author Dr.Dambisa Moyo) and you will understand Lu Heng. Lu Heng on mybroadband.co.za ?*Moreover, we do realize the African Internet is underdeveloped, and we are doing everything we can to help Africa. * Ofcourse the statement above from Lu Heng is bullshit. HELP AFRICA. Can you imagine this guy? Lu Heng on mybroadband.co.za *Through our [Larus] foundation and other efforts, we have been working for years to widen participation in the policy process, especially by students and those just beginning their careers, * The above statement from Lu is misleading. The fact of the matter is that the Larus echo-chamber who are mostly stooges conscripted to advance Lu Hengs agenda, have done nothing more than disrupt the AFRINIC PDP. For over 3 years, the Larus echo-chamber participating in the AFRINIC PDWG has made a series of wild claims and invalid objections on a wide range of draft policy proposals. If a proposal is not beneficial, they appeal it, if it is beneficial like the *self-serving resource transfer proposal*, they demand the AFRINIC board to ratify it even when the said draft proposal is under dispute by participants of the policy development working group. Lu Heng on mybroadband.co.za * to donate to African schools that need computers, and through other educational outreach**.*? The above fake news is what I would refer to as the *#Lu Heng Africa Savior Industrial Complex. * We have seen this tactic used in AFRICA by players like Lu Heng in other aspects that are not Internet Related. > > On the other side, they are doing a professional job of public relations > where in counts... in the press in Mauritius, where the judges are sitting. > Have any of those judges or anyone in the entire government of Mauitius > read a single word about these matters, other than Owen DeLong's point > of view? No, apparently not. > You are on point Ronald. ....Attention S.O, I hope umesikia. If you would concentrate your efforts where it matters, in the > Mauritian press Yes and to do so by AFRINIC telling the truth. https://www.lexpress.mu/ *Lu Heng on the *https://www.lexpress.mu/ * ?We realize that the African internet is still underdeveloped. We are doing our utmost to help the continent.* ? So Lu is claiming that the African Internet is underdeveloped? He then claims he is helping the continent. I find this dude's choice of words in the press wanting. This is the same chap whose company LARUS Ltd is leasing IPv4 addresses outside AFRICA. His new stooge Owen then goes around claiming that they are addressing hosts for millions of customers more than the population of East Africa, in China and elsewhere. How much does Lu Hengs activities contribute in terms of Taxes across Africa? Who are his employees on this continent? Who are his customers in Africa? I mean if you are going to sit on 6 million IPv4 addresses which is more IPv4 space than majority of typical Telecom companies across Africa can hold, then sure we need to see this "*help the continent*" Bullshit from Lu and his fake philosophy of One World, One Internet, Embracing Digital Globalisation. One thing I know Lu Heng has done is to throw dinner parties during the African Internet Summit meeting. The other thing Lu Heng has done in the past is to hand out cheap refurb laptops during AFRINIC social events in the form of gifts. I can not reconcile the 6 million IPv4 address space with cheap laptops he claims to give schools. #scam. Lu Heng for years played this community for jokes. I mean no AFRINIC Resource Member (with Real Network In Africa) has pulled stunts of giving out cheap gifts during AFRINIC meetings like Lu Heng and his Larus Foundation. Ofcourse in AFRICA like anywhere else, gift handouts can come in handy in light of the poverty mentality and it's a subtle way of buying people using tangible goods. But that practise also goes to show you what Lu thinks about this continent and the people. Some Impoverished region that needs Lu Heng #DeadAid. Nonsense of the highest order. If you (Lu Heng) are going to interfere in the lives of others (AFRICA), a little due diligence is a minimum requirement. ....... To paraphrase Teju Cole Those resource members who have built real networks and infrastructure in this continent, from Telecommunication Companies, ISP's, Hosting Providers, Universities, Schools, Banks, Government Institutions, IXP's are known. Who knows Cloud Innovation Ltd, an LIR with over 6 million IPv4 addresses without an ASN and IPv6 allocation? and with the Mauritian government, then you might have > some hope of keeping your own Regional Internet Registry in African, > The other option is to also have AFRINIC run from a different jurisdiction where dishonest folk who take advantage of Seychelles as jurisdiction for their offshore legal entities while headquartered in HongKong can not game the system. but since no one is doing that, there is no hope of AFRINIC surviving, > and thus, this experiment is African Internet sovereignty will end, and > once you lose it, you'll never get it back. Ever. Because no one will > ever again trust the African Internet community to manage its own affairs > without assistance from outside. I couldn't agree more with Ronald. He is right and has been right on a wide range of issues. I often like to tell the story of the BodaBoda/TukTuk industry. Today in Africa, a household is able to buy home utensils off a platform like Instagram through an ecommerce page or any ecommerce platform like Jumia . The purchase is then transacted between the merchant and the buyer through Mobile Money. The delivery of the purchased Items from the merchant to the buyer is done by the BodaBoda/TukTuk industry which employs today, Millions of African Youth today. Some of those riders are university graduates who have failed to get a whitecolar jobs. They use platforms like https://safeboda.com/ug/ to lead a life. We Network Engineers enable all this by making sure that we put to use the IPv4 addresses that AFRINIC is responsible for managing and has allocated to LIR based on need, to make sure that we enable the Internet in our region. We expand the Internet Infrastructure so that all those who it affects can improve their lives from the public end-users, to Governments, Education Institutions, NREN's, Healthy Institutions etc in Africa. We have seen our Governments now go online with e-Government services. Those services depend on the IPv4 addresses managed by AFRINIC as a registry. Today our people are able to pay utility bills online directly to the governments and the Tax man is able to collect Tax online. Digital payments are enabling governments to fight corruption as public funds today are now easily tracked through each mobile transaction. The cashless digital economy is enabling transparency and accountability and it has reduced the chances of mismanagement of public funds. This would not have been possible without the Internet and the Internet is those IPv4 integers managed by AFRINIC. A lot of our youth in Africa today are able to leverage on the age of information to access information that 50 years ago would not be possible and this is all thanks to the Internet. Subsistence farmers are able to stay in the rural villages across Africa and leverage FinTech and Mobile Money to sell their produce and earn an Income and lead a decent life. The farmers get paid for their labor through Mobile Money today and they are able to avoid the corrupt middle men who ripped them off their hard earned labor. We the Internet people are making this possible using the IPv4 address. When you sleep at night, be proud of the work of your hand every time you configure a router or switch or online a server across this continent which you assign the Interfaces with an IPv4 address so that they can carry Internet traffic across Africa to enable communication. Cheers, Noah PS: *Everyone is your enemy, everyone is your friend* - *Little Finger #FictionCharacter GoT.... Remain Ignorant and get played.* #StandWithAFRINIC #Accountability. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From comms at afrinic.net Thu Aug 5 13:03:26 2021 From: comms at afrinic.net (AFRINIC Communication) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 17:03:26 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] [rpd] Unaddressed queries by AFRINIC during AGMM In-Reply-To: <17b0b5c781f.feab0f49943593.898979880842633625@africaoncloud.net> References: <4424CF11-A39B-4659-8E07-FE28BE9E3E4A@afrinic.net> <17a672d13a0.10544ab7440171.7359974942069971130@africaoncloud.net> <17b0b5c781f.feab0f49943593.898979880842633625@africaoncloud.net> Message-ID: Dear Mr Wollner, This is a follow-up to our previous response to you regarding questions. We have planned to address these questions through a series of webinars. However, these AFRINIC webinar series that we started on 19 July 2021 (https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/announce/2021/002306.html) have since been put on hold for now due to ongoing matters. We shall communicate the new dates for the webinar series in due course. Regards, AFRINIC Communications > On 3 Aug 2021, at 13:33, Paul Wollner wrote: > > Dear AFRINIC, > > It has been just over a month now since the mail below was sent and I feel that we still do not have any direct answer on the 4 questions that were raised. > > Can we please get a clearcut answer from AFRINIC on these questions? > > Regards > Paul Wollner > > > > > ---- On Fri, 02 Jul 2021 14:24:05 +0200 Paul Wollner wrote ---- > > Mr. Kayihura, > > I refer to your email dated 30 June 2021. > > In it, you claim that Questions 1 to 3 were addressed during the open mic session held on 4 June 2021. > > The reality is that none of those questions were satisfactorily answered. They were addressed to the extent that the questions were acknowledged, then an attempt was made to obfuscate them and answer different questions while pretending to answer the questions asked, then a claim was made that the questions would be answered at a later date. > > In reality, no such answer has been forthcoming from AFRINIC. We recognize that these questions are likely inconvenient and come at what is almost certainly an inopportune time to be asking. Nonetheless, these are valid questions and as a resource member, we feel that we are being held at unfair disadvantage if AFRINIC will not provide a clear and direct answer to each of the questions about how it interprets policies in these areas. > > There?s too much at stake to allow AFRINIC staff to simply make it up as they go a long. We need a public commitment to the official interpretation of these areas of potential ambiguity in the current policy regime. > > As to the fourth item, while it is not our intent to micro-manage AFRINIC staff decisions, it is our conclusion that even if Madhvi did not actively participate in the fraudulent resource registrations and embezzlement, she surely must have either turned a blind eye (aiding and abetting) or she failed to notice it which at best displays a level of incompetence and failure to meet her duty of care in such a position. > > In summary, we renew our request for factual, reliable, direct answers to each of the queries and request that AFRINIC eschew further obfuscation and sophistry in the process. > > Thank you. > > Paul Wollner > > > > > > ---- On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 13:04:19 +0200 Eddy Kayihura wrote ---- > > Mr Wollner, > > I refer to your email dated 24 June 2021. > > Questions 1 to 3 were addressed during the open mic session held on 4 June 2021 and we undertook an action to organise a webinar within 2 months to discuss with the community the definition of ?need-based? in the AFRINIC policies and bylaws. > > We are delighted to see that the discussion amongst the community has already started. > > > Regarding question 4, we cannot penalise a staff member unless we find concrete proof of their involvement in the misappropriation of the IP resources. As of now, we do not have such evidence on any of AFRINIC?s current staff members. > > The appropriate channel for such inquiry or complaint is to submit it via our Whistleblowing platform. > > > Regards, > > Eddy Kayihura > > Chief Executive Officer, > African Network Information Centre (AFRINIC) > ????????????????????. > > > M. Wollner, > > Je me r?f?re ? votre courriel du 24 juin 2021. > > Les questions 1 ? 3 ont ?t? abord?es lors de la session 'open mic' qui s'est tenue le 4 juin 2021 et nous avons entrepris une action visant ? organiser un webinaire dans un d?lai de 2 mois afin de discuter avec la communaut? de la d?finition de "need-based" dans les politiques et les statuts d'AFRINIC. > > Nous sommes ravis de voir que la discussion au sein de la communaut? a d?j? commenc?. > > En ce qui concerne la question 4, nous ne pouvons pas p?naliser un membre du personnel ? moins de trouver des preuves concr?tes de son implication dans la manipulation non autoris?e des ressources IP. A ce jour, nous n'avons pas de telles preuves sur aucun des membres actuels du personnel d'AFRINIC. > > Le canal appropri? pour une telle requ?te ou plainte est de la soumettre via notre plateforme de whistleblowing. > > > Cordialement, > Eddy Kayihura > Directeur g?n?ral, > African Network Information Centre (AFRINIC) > > _______________________________________________ > RPD mailing list > RPD at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd > > > _______________________________________________ > RPD mailing list > RPD at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd > > > _______________________________________________ > Members-Discuss mailing list > Members-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss From abscoco at gmail.com Thu Aug 5 14:26:33 2021 From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain Baya) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 15:26:33 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] NRO MoU section 9. Advisory Appeals Process (was: ICANN ( NRO ) vs LARUS (NRA)) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear AfriNIC's Community, Please see my comments below, inline... Le jeudi 5 ao?t 2021, John Curran a ?crit : > On 5 Aug 2021, at 6:23 AM, Sylvain Baya wrote: > > ... > > Please Mike, but open to all, are you willing to > check whether this could ameliorate, the addressing > of conflictual relations between a regional RIR > and its resource members? > ... > > 9. Advisory Appeals Process > The NRO shall establish an NRO Advisory Appeals Panel, with one > representative from each RIR region, but whose members shall not be > employees or Board members of the RIRs. Advisory Appeals Panel members > shall be knowledgeable members of the Internet community proposed for this > role by the NRO Executive Council, for the purpose of hearing complaints > relating to failure on the part of an RIR, the NRO or an NRO > suborganization to follow its documented policy development process > concerning global IP number resource policies. > > > Hello Sylvain - > > Hi John, > The Advisory Appeals Process provides for review of disputes regarding an > RIR which fails to follow "its documented _*policy development process > concerning global IP number resource policies_*? (emphasis added) > > Many thanks for pointing it out. It's really appreciated :-) ...i really missed it, at first sight :'-( Then, imho, there are two possible successive actions: ~?~ 1. Submit a gDPP (global Draft Policy Proposal) [*] 2. Submit a DPP [**] 3. any other? ~?~ __ [*]: The gDPP shall propose a wording to extend the mandate of the NRO Advisory Panel. [**]: The DPP shall direct to the NRO Advisory Panel in case of disagreement between AfriNIC and its Local LIR. ...i hope this makes sense :-/ But let me know, please. Shalom, --sb. > Global IP number resource policies are those processes which are used by > the IANA function operator when issuing IP number resources from the global > unallocated pool to each RIR, and as such the scope of the Advisory Appeals > Panel is quite narrow and does not extend to disputes within an individual > RIR on regional policy development or regional registry administration > issues. > > Best wishes, > /John > > John Curran > President and CEO > American Registry for Internet Numbers > > > > -- -- Best Regards ! __ baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]| Subscribe to Mailing List: __ #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|#?Romains15?:33?Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec vous tous! ?#?Amen?!? ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement? ?Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!?(#Psaumes42:2) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jcurran at arin.net Thu Aug 5 17:28:18 2021 From: jcurran at arin.net (John Curran) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 17:28:18 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] NRO MoU section 9. Advisory Appeals Process (was: ICANN ( NRO ) vs LARUS (NRA)) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <423A044F-B993-402E-8F3B-BB40B3CCCAAA@arin.net> On 5 Aug 2021, at 10:26 AM, Sylvain Baya wrote: > ... > Many thanks for pointing it out. > It's really appreciated :-) > ...i really missed it, at first sight :'-( > > Then, imho, there are two possible successive > actions: > > ~?~ > 1. Submit a gDPP (global Draft Policy Proposal) [*] > 2. Submit a DPP [**] > 3. any other? > ~?~ > __ > [*]: The gDPP shall propose a wording to extend > the mandate of the NRO Advisory Panel. > [**]: The DPP shall direct to the NRO Advisory > Panel in case of disagreement between AfriNIC > and its Local LIR. > > ...i hope this makes sense :-/ > But let me know, please. Sylvain - I believe that you are asking how should disputes between an RIR and their LIR customer be handled, and should there be global panel for this purpose for all RIRs? I have no idea regarding the appropriate answer on dispute resolution in the AFRINIC region - that is truly a matter for this community to consider and arrive an an appropriate outcome. I do know that in the ARIN region we have a formal appeal process, and then binding arbitration if it proves necessary. I imagine that others RIRs have their own processes in this regard, but offhand I am not familiar with them. Regarding having a global panel for this purpose, it?s unclear what benefit would achieved in addressing issues of a single RIR scope via a mechanism of global composition - that?s not likely to scale well and would exhibit more uncertainty in outcome compared to having such processes within the region. It is my personal view that you (this collective community) are AFRINIC, and working to strengthen & instill faith in AFRINIC would appear the most direct path to both avoiding disputes and resolving those that do arise from time to time. Best wishes, /John John Curran President and CEO American Registry for Internet Numbers From noah at neo.co.tz Thu Aug 5 18:19:08 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 21:19:08 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] NRO MoU section 9. Advisory Appeals Process (was: ICANN ( NRO ) vs LARUS (NRA)) In-Reply-To: <423A044F-B993-402E-8F3B-BB40B3CCCAAA@arin.net> References: <423A044F-B993-402E-8F3B-BB40B3CCCAAA@arin.net> Message-ID: Hi John, On Thu, 5 Aug 2021, 20:36 John Curran, wrote: > It is my personal view that you (this collective community) are AFRINIC, > and working to strengthen & instill faith in AFRINIC would appear the most > direct path to both avoiding disputes and resolving those that do arise > from time to time. I completely agree with you. Its also my opinion that issues of AFRINIC region would be best resolved within the scope of our region and that would ensure that the outcome is not viewed with suspicion by the AFRINIC community. A regional resolution would have more legitimacy over global one because issues of AFRINIC are best resolved by this very community rather than appealing to outside authority. That is not to mean that the African region shall stop from continueing to collaborate with other regions on common and shared goals as regards the Number Resource Management within the scope of the NRO. Cheers Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From abscoco at gmail.com Thu Aug 5 20:28:57 2021 From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain Baya) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 21:28:57 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] NRO MoU section 9. Advisory Appeals Process (was: ICANN ( NRO ) vs LARUS (NRA)) In-Reply-To: <423A044F-B993-402E-8F3B-BB40B3CCCAAA@arin.net> References: <423A044F-B993-402E-8F3B-BB40B3CCCAAA@arin.net> Message-ID: Dear AfriNIC's Community, Le jeudi 5 ao?t 2021, John Curran a ?crit : > On 5 Aug 2021, at 10:26 AM, Sylvain Baya wrote: > > ... > > [...] > > > > ...i hope this makes sense :-/ > > But let me know, please. > > Sylvain - Hi John, > > I believe that you are asking how should disputes between an RIR > and their LIR customer be handled, and should there be global panel for > this purpose for all RIRs? > > Yes! that's the problem i want this community to solve/handle... :-) ...i really appreciate your disponibility to respond to my personal questionning...i just want to reassure you that i'm not directing my questions to you in particular :-) So! please brother, don't be embarassed, the next time you see my questions... ...not withstanding the fact that, i'ld like you to answer all my questions...but, don't care please ;-) > I have no idea regarding the appropriate answer on dispute > resolution in the AFRINIC region - that is truly a matter for this community > ...of course, thanks. The community, as wider it can be, is always welcome, no matter the diversity in opinion ;-) > > to consider and arrive an an appropriate outcome. I do know that in the > ARIN region we have a formal appeal process, and then binding arbitration > if it proves necessary. I imagine that others RIRs have their own processes > in this regard, but offhand I am not familiar with them. ...thanks, i'll check your approach, to compare with the regional problem at hand. > > Regarding having a global panel for this purpose, it?s unclear > what benefit would achieved in addressing issues of a single RIR scope via > a mechanism of global composition - that?s not likely to scale well and > would exhibit more uncertainty in outcome compared to having such processes > within the region. ...the reason is simple: to keep the INR System's disputes within the numbering community; on the first place...while avoiding the courts on the first place...i started with something i found to be an opportunity...now that it's not available, i have to look at what could be an acceptable and adequate solution. > > It is my personal view that you (this collective community) are AFRINIC, > and working to strengthen & instill faith in AFRINIC would appear the most > direct path to both avoiding disputes and resolving those that do arise > from time to time. ...i agree, thanks once more. To continue my quest, i would ask to others: ~?~ 1. Please, how do you think we could/should resolve open dispute between AfriNIC and its resource holder? 2. How to organize an arbitration process in case such disputes occur? 3. Do you think that a dispute about INRs should be directed to the court in the first place? ~?~ > > > Best wishes, > /John > > Thanks for your appreciated contribution, John. Shalom, --sb. > John Curran > President and CEO > American Registry for Internet Numbers > > > > -- -- Best Regards ! __ baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]| Subscribe to Mailing List: __ #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|#?Romains15?:33?Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec vous tous! ?#?Amen?!? ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement? ?Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!?(#Psaumes42:2) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Thu Aug 5 21:39:42 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 14:39:42 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] ICANN ( NRO ) vs LARUS (NRA) In-Reply-To: References: <512A3CAD-8AA5-4AF8-A86A-0D9BC52908EF@gmail.com> Message-ID: > > ~?~ > Abstract > > RFC 7020 provides information about the Internet Numbers Registry > System and how it is used in the distribution of autonomous system > (AS) numbers and globally unique unicast Internet Protocol (IP) > address space. > > This companion document identifies the IANA registries that are part > of the Internet Numbers Registry System at this time. > ~?~ > > ...i don't think we need to go back to the time > when the IANA technical function was fully under > US DoC/NTIA contract [5]...permit me to paste the > below portion of text, from RFC7020, to conclude: > > ~?~ > [...] > The Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and > Numbers (ICANN) currently fulfills the IANA role in accordance > with the IETF-ICANN "Memorandum of Understanding Concerning > Technical Work of the Internet Assigned Numbers Authority", which > was signed and ratified in March 2000 [RFC2860 ]. In addition, > ICANN performs the IANA services related to the IP address space > and AS numbers according to global number resource policies that > have been developed by the community and formalized under a > Memorandum of Understanding between ICANN and the Regional > Internet Registries [ASOMOU ] and documented in [ICANNv4 ], > [ICANNv6 ], and [ICANNASN ]. > [...] > ~?~ > > It cites a MoU between ICANN & IETF/IAB about > IANA role; back in march 2000; NRO was created That MoU is for protocol numbers, port numbers, etc. under the control of the IETF/IAB and administered as the technical functions portion of the IANA role. It has nothing to do with the Number Resource portion of the IANA role which is under the control of the RIR system aka the NRO. > on 24 october 2003 [4]. But ICP-2 [6] has been > ratified by ICANN on 04 june 2001, so LACNIC > enjoyed it first in 2002, then AfriNIC in 2005... > ...ASO AC (1999) [7] predates NRO NC (2003). > __ > [5]: > > [6]: > > [7]: > Yes? This is an ICANN document that was created as part of its performance of the IANA functions contract when that contract was being issued by NTIA. > ...those public information are the base of my > assertion...again, i admit that both the two > directions could be proved to be true. ICANN is now awarded the IANA functions contract with respect to internet number resources by the empowered community which consists (for this purpose) of the NRO EC. ICANN performs the IANA functions for internet number resources according to the policies developed through the global policy development process of the ASO, under the administrative guidance of the ASO AC. The ASO AC is a synonym for the NRO NC and the global policy development process is managed by each of the five RIR communities passing identical policy through their respective PDPs and then forwarding that to the ASO AC for submission to ICANN. (this is an oversimplification, but the rest is not material to this discussion). > But, icymi, *our* concern was about what Owen > said, regarding ICANN. So, the same kind of > thinking developed through nra.help... I chose an unfortunately charged term ?puppet? to talk about the fact that ICANN does not have authority over the RIRs, but, rather the RIRs have authority over ICANN even though addresses flow from ICANN?s main pool to the RIR?s individual pools. The control structure is very much that ICANN performs the actions (with respect to internet number resources) that the RIRs tell it to. So while Mike (and others) don?t like my use of the word ?puppet?, the reality is that it is the NRO that pulls ICANNs strings with respect to Internet Number Resources and even Mike has stated that it is a distinction without a difference. > Hope this clarifies, something. I hope you now have the clarity you seek. Owen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Thu Aug 5 21:46:01 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 14:46:01 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] NRO MoU section 9. Advisory Appeals Process (was: ICANN ( NRO ) vs LARUS (NRA)) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <29F45152-FF90-4564-AAE8-62A4AE607692@delong.com> Sylvain, I think you missed some very key points in this? I have added emphasis and separated the relevant parts to help you? > > 9. Advisory Appeals Process > The NRO shall establish an NRO Advisory Appeals Panel, with one representative from each RIR region, but whose members shall not be employees or Board members of the RIRs. Advisory Appeals Panel members shall be knowledgeable members of the Internet community proposed for this role by the NRO Executive Council, > > for the purpose of hearing complaints relating to failure on the part of an RIR, the NRO or an NRO suborganization to follow its documented policy development process concerning global IP number resource policies. > > The panel shall not decide on the merit(s), or lack thereof regarding the underlying policies, > > but may provide a written report to the Executive Council indicating the Advisory Appeals Panel?s evaluation of the complaint. > > The Advisory Appeals Panel shall adopt such policies and procedures as are necessary to make it accessible and open, transparent and documented. These policies and procedures should include, but are not limited to, voluntary or requested recusal of representatives, procedures for reporting to the Executive Council, and procedures to address any allegation of fraudulent or dishonest conduct by representatives. > > The Advisory Appeals Panel, at its sole discretion, may dismiss frivolous, repetitive or nuisance complaints without further review. > > The Advisory Appeals Panel decision is intended to serve as a persuasive advisory opinion, and it provides no basis for legal action in any jurisdiction. > As you can see, this is for those who have a grievance or belief that a policy development process was not followed regarding GLOBAL IP NUMBER RESOURCE POLICIES, not individual RIR policies. I?m not aware of any such controversy at this time. To the best of my knowledge, the global PDP hasn?t been invoked for several years. Owen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Thu Aug 5 22:04:40 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 15:04:40 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Share About Cloud Innovation Ltd and their business In-Reply-To: References: <31299.1627244609@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <745F630B-A186-481C-9704-BCA2A0869089@delong.com> <418e1240-bbaa-b658-43aa-dfd75fc769db@geier.ne.tz> <014477A4-1987-43FB-B8A8-A70B746B3A5A@delong.com> Message-ID: > On Aug 5, 2021, at 04:44 , Sylvain Baya wrote: > > Dear AfriNIC's Community, > > Please see my comments below, inline... > > Le mardi 3 ao?t 2021, Owen DeLong > a ?crit : > > >> On Aug 2, 2021, at 00:03 , Sylvain Baya > wrote: >> >> Dear AfriNIC's Community, >> >> Please see my comments below, inline... >> >> Le samedi 31 juillet 2021, Owen DeLong > a ?crit : >> >>> On Jul 30, 2021, at 15:14 , Sylvain Baya > wrote: >>> >>> Dear AfriNIC's Community, >>> >>> Le mercredi 28 juillet 2021, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss > a ?crit : >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> [...] >>>> >>> >>> You?re not answering the question I asked? >>> >>> >>> Hi Owen, >>> Thanks for your email, brother! >>> >>> >>> What is your basis in policy for claiming that a VM is OK, but leasing addresses without providing connectivity >>> services is not? >>> >>> >>> ...you might have forgotten about a simple notion, >>> called: conservation. You shall recognize it as it has >>> been refered out there as *Reservations*. >> >> I have not forgotten, but we are not talking about reservation. >> >> >> Hi Owen, >> Thanks to take time to reply to my email, brother. >> >> ...so, *we*! i assume the same *we* you usually >> use to call your team to support your personal interpretation of the facts? > > No, we is you and I, the people engaged in this particular conversational > thread. > > > > Hi Owen, > Thanks for your clarification, brother. > > ...so, you try to impose to all others a particular > theme? ??? I don?t try to impose anything. I simply made a statement about the nature of the items you and I were discussing. They are not reservations by the meaning contained any AFRINIC governing document. > Please, sir, how can i be removed from your pool? I am very confused here. What pool do you speak of? You made a statement claiming that cloud innovations leases were reservations and then based other conclusions on this purported fact. I merely pointed out that the subject matter that you and I (we) were discussing was not, in fact, a case of ?reservations?. You then went down a very bizarre tangent related to how I was defining we, making an invalid assumption about it and then turning my response clarifying same into some sort of accusation that I was somehow being coercive. I really cannot understand your reasoning here. >> Btw, you are entitled to your own opinion. >> >> ...let's, at least, agree to disagree :-/ >> >> >> We are talking about deployment on an actual >> host connected to the internet for legitimate use. >> >> >> ...again, *we*:=you+your_supporting_team, brother? >> >> For what it's worth, in order to lease community's >> ressources such as INRs, one shall *reserve* it first; > > Um, that?s true whether one is leasing the INRs with or > > > Thanks to finally getting my point: you practice > leasing on INRs, then you violate the RSA+CPM. Not sure how you figure that? ALL LIRs lease INRs. Many do it in relation to also providing connectivity services. Cloud Innovation also does it in relation to providing connectivity services in some (but not all) cases. > ...because you have to *reserve*, given that you don't have any network to address hosts on or > to define any administrative boundaries for or; > so any distinctive routing policy to document... Not true. We (Cloud Innovation) have customers just like any other LIR. We (Cloud Innovation) assign addresses to them for use on internet connected hosts, just like any other LIR. The only distinction between us (Cloud Innovation) and most other LIRs is that we will do so regardless of whether we are the provider of that connectivity or not. This is not a reservation. We do not hold the addresses in reserve for them during a period of time when they are not deployed on actual hosts (which is what a reservation would be). > without connnectivity services attached, so you have > either pointed out how we are identical to every other > LIR, or, you have both pointed this out _AND_ called > into question the standard practice of every LIR. > > > > ...straw man fallacy? Not to the best of my knowledge. > I?m not sure which is intended. > >> otherwise, any of the end-users/clients shall come >> to the Registration Service to request the needed >> INRs; sure to find some there...and you know it: > > We don?t do anything to interfere with or prevent end-users > or clients from seeking internet number resources from any > other source. > > > ...please, sir, could you share your stats on the number of orgs, you have helped to become LIR > since the time your org shipted from LIR to INRs > seller? mini-RIR? or Global LIR? No. Doing so would violate the confidentiality of my clients and is not material to any legitimate discussion here. > RFC7020 states: > > ~?~ > [...] > In > cases where LIRs span multiple regions, those LIRs have > established relationships with multiple RIRs. > [...] > ~?~ > > ...full part: > > ~?~ > Local IRs > > Local Internet Registries (LIRs) are established through a > relationship with the body from which they received their > addresses, typically the RIR that serves the region in which they > operate, a parent LIR, or other number-allocating entity. In > cases where LIRs span multiple regions, those LIRs have > established relationships with multiple RIRs. LIRs perform IP > address allocation services for their customers, typically ISPs, > end users, or child LIRs (also known as "sub-LIRs"). > ~?~ > > First, you seem to have missed this: Abstract This document provides information about the current Internet Numbers Registry System used in the distribution of globally unique Internet Protocol (IP) address space and autonomous system (AS) numbers. This document also provides information about the processes for further evolution of the Internet Numbers Registry System. This document replaces RFC 2050 . This document does not propose any changes to the current Internet Numbers Registry System. Rather, it documents the Internet Numbers Registry System as it works today. Then as you have pointed out, it states ?typically?. By definition, this means that there are likely to exist atypical situations as well. There are, in fact, multiple entities operating in multiple regions, but only having relationships with a single RIR and there is nothing (outside of one LACNIC policy) that serves to hamper or restrict this behavior. Owen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Thu Aug 5 22:10:21 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 15:10:21 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Update 04 Aug 2021 In-Reply-To: <7223C040-0B84-4C1F-A05E-9877EE678EBA@wia.co.tz> References: <802C418C-DC68-42B2-8798-F9A57EBC3F59@gmail.com> <7223C040-0B84-4C1F-A05E-9877EE678EBA@wia.co.tz> Message-ID: <58CA4C2C-9813-4003-BA17-18F1473BFFF1@delong.com> > On Aug 5, 2021, at 04:18 , Murungi Daniel via Community-Discuss wrote: > > One probable reason could be that CI were caught with their pants down and requested for time to cook up a new story :) > Not this crap again. Whereas you are entitled to your opinion, stop spewing misinformation. Regards, Murungi Daniel _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Thu Aug 5 22:11:53 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2021 15:11:53 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] [rpd] Unaddressed queries by AFRINIC during AGMM In-Reply-To: References: <4424CF11-A39B-4659-8E07-FE28BE9E3E4A@afrinic.net> <17a672d13a0.10544ab7440171.7359974942069971130@africaoncloud.net> <17b0b5c781f.feab0f49943593.898979880842633625@africaoncloud.net> Message-ID: <43B3CDDF-ED2C-4239-AD73-EE74004DA773@delong.com> How about just providing simple text answers to the questions? I don?t think webinars are necessary. I think that the questions need to be addressed and that there is really no difficulty to do so in text. Owen > On Aug 5, 2021, at 06:03 , AFRINIC Communication wrote: > > Dear Mr Wollner, > > This is a follow-up to our previous response to you regarding questions. > > We have planned to address these questions through a series of webinars. However, these AFRINIC webinar series that we started on 19 July 2021 (https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/announce/2021/002306.html ) have since been put on hold for now due to ongoing matters. > > We shall communicate the new dates for the webinar series in due course. > > Regards, > > AFRINIC Communications > >> On 3 Aug 2021, at 13:33, Paul Wollner > wrote: >> >> Dear AFRINIC, >> >> It has been just over a month now since the mail below was sent and I feel that we still do not have any direct answer on the 4 questions that were raised. >> >> Can we please get a clearcut answer from AFRINIC on these questions? >> >> Regards >> Paul Wollner >> >> >> >> >> ---- On Fri, 02 Jul 2021 14:24:05 +0200 Paul Wollner wrote ---- >> >> Mr. Kayihura, >> >> I refer to your email dated 30 June 2021. >> >> In it, you claim that Questions 1 to 3 were addressed during the open mic session held on 4 June 2021. >> >> The reality is that none of those questions were satisfactorily answered. They were addressed to the extent that the questions were acknowledged, then an attempt was made to obfuscate them and answer different questions while pretending to answer the questions asked, then a claim was made that the questions would be answered at a later date. >> >> In reality, no such answer has been forthcoming from AFRINIC. We recognize that these questions are likely inconvenient and come at what is almost certainly an inopportune time to be asking. Nonetheless, these are valid questions and as a resource member, we feel that we are being held at unfair disadvantage if AFRINIC will not provide a clear and direct answer to each of the questions about how it interprets policies in these areas. >> >> There?s too much at stake to allow AFRINIC staff to simply make it up as they go a long. We need a public commitment to the official interpretation of these areas of potential ambiguity in the current policy regime. >> >> As to the fourth item, while it is not our intent to micro-manage AFRINIC staff decisions, it is our conclusion that even if Madhvi did not actively participate in the fraudulent resource registrations and embezzlement, she surely must have either turned a blind eye (aiding and abetting) or she failed to notice it which at best displays a level of incompetence and failure to meet her duty of care in such a position. >> >> In summary, we renew our request for factual, reliable, direct answers to each of the queries and request that AFRINIC eschew further obfuscation and sophistry in the process. >> >> Thank you. >> >> Paul Wollner >> >> >> >> >> >> ---- On Wed, 30 Jun 2021 13:04:19 +0200 Eddy Kayihura wrote ---- >> >> Mr Wollner, >> >> I refer to your email dated 24 June 2021. >> >> Questions 1 to 3 were addressed during the open mic session held on 4 June 2021 and we undertook an action to organise a webinar within 2 months to discuss with the community the definition of ?need-based? in the AFRINIC policies and bylaws. >> >> We are delighted to see that the discussion amongst the community has already started. >> >> >> Regarding question 4, we cannot penalise a staff member unless we find concrete proof of their involvement in the misappropriation of the IP resources. As of now, we do not have such evidence on any of AFRINIC?s current staff members. >> >> The appropriate channel for such inquiry or complaint is to submit it via our Whistleblowing platform. >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Eddy Kayihura >> >> Chief Executive Officer, >> African Network Information Centre (AFRINIC) >> ????????????????????. >> >> >> M. Wollner, >> >> Je me r?f?re ? votre courriel du 24 juin 2021. >> >> Les questions 1 ? 3 ont ?t? abord?es lors de la session 'open mic' qui s'est tenue le 4 juin 2021 et nous avons entrepris une action visant ? organiser un webinaire dans un d?lai de 2 mois afin de discuter avec la communaut? de la d?finition de "need-based" dans les politiques et les statuts d'AFRINIC. >> >> Nous sommes ravis de voir que la discussion au sein de la communaut? a d?j? commenc?. >> >> En ce qui concerne la question 4, nous ne pouvons pas p?naliser un membre du personnel ? moins de trouver des preuves concr?tes de son implication dans la manipulation non autoris?e des ressources IP. A ce jour, nous n'avons pas de telles preuves sur aucun des membres actuels du personnel d'AFRINIC. >> >> Le canal appropri? pour une telle requ?te ou plainte est de la soumettre via notre plateforme de whistleblowing. >> >> >> Cordialement, >> Eddy Kayihura >> Directeur g?n?ral, >> African Network Information Centre (AFRINIC) >> >> _______________________________________________ >> RPD mailing list >> RPD at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> RPD mailing list >> RPD at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Members-Discuss mailing list >> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From b.sowers154 at gmail.com Fri Aug 6 04:34:28 2021 From: b.sowers154 at gmail.com (Brian Sowers) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2021 00:34:28 -0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Update 04 Aug 2021 Message-ID: Noah, Your name calling doesn?t take away from the fact that it?s clear that whatever AFRINIC presented in court did not immediately clear their name. And yes, I am a ghost. I am neither here nor there but am beside you even as you sleep. Perhaps when you will have woken up this morning, I will have given you nightmares. All jokes aside, I am simply an internet activist and what is it to you anyway? The mailing lists are open to all. Or did you forget about that part in the RIR?s history? -Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amelnaud at gmail.com Fri Aug 6 07:43:44 2021 From: amelnaud at gmail.com (Arnaud AMELINA) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2021 07:43:44 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Share About Cloud Innovation Ltd and their business In-Reply-To: <8927F030-9DB0-4AFB-B843-4E7BF8A73DA1@delong.com> References: <46361.1627507530@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <4FC446E1-5FBD-413D-8E23-5EF248F5E8D7@delong.com> <8927F030-9DB0-4AFB-B843-4E7BF8A73DA1@delong.com> Message-ID: Owen, I proved with public data that your claim that all Cloud Innovation Limited IPv4 resources had been allocated with Adiel as CEO, is FALSE and misleading. The 2x /11 were allocated by other CEO after Adiel had left. Your follow on question is then irrelevant . Forcing people to respond to your question? I noted if not mistaken, that you have NOT responded until now to the question about the Conflict of Interest. -- Arnaud Le mer. 4 ao?t 2021 ? 01:14, Owen DeLong a ?crit : > > > On Aug 3, 2021, at 14:52 , Arnaud AMELINA wrote: > > > > Le jeu. 29 juil. 2021 ? 02:44, Owen DeLong a ?crit : > >> >> >> On Jul 28, 2021, at 16:57 , Arnaud AMELINA wrote: >> >> >> >> >>> >>> >>> >> Oui en effet on se rappelle bien de cette p?riode o? le Board entrait >> dans le Mico-management d'Afrinic, et jouait quasiment le R?le du CEO, sans >> que ce dernier ne r?clame son droit, car ce sont eux qui l'ont recrut? face >> ? un Candidat hors du commun, respect de la communaut? Internet mondiale. >> Il avait donc peut-?tre peur pour son poste. >> >> >> The CEO at the time that our addresses were issued was none other than >> Adiel Akplogan, so it?s not really clear to me who you think you are >> targeting here, as I thought he was in place since the beginning of >> AFRINIC. What early better candidate do you believe was passed up in hiring >> Adiel? >> > > Why are you in a hurry to mention *Adiel* for? Are you desperate again? > > > A hurry? You are the one who brought up the CEO. I merely pointed out > which CEO you were accusing. Why do you have a problem with this? I?ll note > that you still have not answered my actual question. > > As I said before, history knows who were in the place when all resources > were provided to CI. After some research, we can summarize as follows: > > Adiel was not the ceo who allocated all the numbers and we can see how > the allocations went 1st /12 2nd /12 and then the 1st /11 and 2nd /11 and > all this happened within a 12 months time frame! > > > Yes? And each with a valid justification and utilization data for previous > resources duly and properly submitted. > > Thus, CI looted the numbers within a year after first CEO, Adiel Akplogan > left Afrinic. *The cat was away and the mice played?* > > > I take issue with your use of the term looted which implies a crime of > theft during a war, riot, or other civil unrest. I do not believe such a > civil unrest existed in AFRINIC at the time, nor do I believe that the > resource registrations were obtained by theft. > > Here are the CI allocations mixed with officers at time of allocations for > everyone to see and know truth > > > Corrections inline: > > *2004 ceo Adiel Akplogan * > > *2013 July 24 1st /12 * > *2013 July chair Viv Padayatchy * > *2014 September Adiel Akplogan resigned * > *2014 September chair Sunday Folayan* > *2014 December 01 2nd /12 * > *2014 December 31 acting ceo Patrisse (Invalid because he is a resident of > Mauritius and thus prohibited by bylaws from being CEO)* > *2014 December chair Sunday Folayan * > *2015 December 22 1st /11 * > *2015 December ceo Alan Barrett * > *2015 December chair Sunday Folayan* > *2016 September 23 2nd /11* > *2016 ceo Alan Barrett * > *2016 chair Sunday Folayan* > > > So we have, according to you, a single /12 issued under Adiel, a /12 and a > /11 issued under Patrisse, and a /11 issued under Alan Barrett. > > I?m trying to get exact issue dates to confirm whether your chronology > works or not, but even if it does, are you claiming that Patrisse and/or > Alan were, in some way, corrupt or suborned improper allocations by the > registry? That?s a pretty serious accusation and I?d say you should have > some pretty strong evidence to back it up. Further, you still haven?t > answered the question as to which candidate you feel was passed up for CEO > who would somehow have not issued these allocations or why. > > > Some Board Directors 2014 - 2017 > *2013 - 2018 Sunday Folayan* > *2014 - 2017 Andrew Alston* > *2009 - 2015 Mark Elkins* > *2014 - 2017 Kris Seeburn* > *2013 - 2018 Haitham El Nakhal* > > The full details are on Afrinic web site > > > You are mistaking ?changed:? date (last update) for ?issued:? date (not > published). > > Owen > > > ?- > *inetnum: 154.80.0.0 154.95.255.255 /12 * > > netname: Cloud-Innovation-v4-I > > descr: Cloud Innovation Ltd > > changed: hostmaster at afrinic.net *20130724* > > > *inetnum: 45.192.0.0 - 45.207.255.255 /12 * > > netname: Cloud-Innovation-v4-I > > descr: Cloud Innovation Ltd > > changed: hostmaster at afrinic.net *20141201* > > > *inetnum:156.224.0.0 -156.255.255.255 /11 * > > netname: CloudInnovation-infrastructure > > descr: Cloud Innovation Ltd > > changed: hostmaster at afrinic.net *20151222* > > > *inetnum:154.192.0.0 - 154.223.255.255 /11 * > > netname: Cloud-Innovation-v4-II changed: > hostmaster at afrinic.net *20160923* > > > *board announced Adiel's depart September 2014, effective 31/01/2015 * > > *https://afrinic.net/20140917-ceo-adiel-akplogan-resign > * > > All this for the record and education. > > Regards > > -- > Arnaud > ... > > >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amelnaud at gmail.com Fri Aug 6 07:54:58 2021 From: amelnaud at gmail.com (Arnaud AMELINA) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2021 07:54:58 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Share About Cloud Innovation Ltd and their business In-Reply-To: References: <75406.1628032024@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: Hi Ronald Le mar. 3 ao?t 2021 ? 23:59, Arnaud AMELINA a ?crit : > > > ... > > > >> Th names of board members or board chairmen on these dates is perfectly >> irrelevant because the board never reviewed any of these allocations, >> or any of the documents or other materials that were used to justify them. >> The allocations were all made as a result of "staff" decisions, not the >> board. >> > > You can't be totally sure on this one, because it was the period we saw > the Board playing the CEO Prerogatives, and entering in the micromanagement > of AFRINIC, remember. > As I said here, you can't be totally sure, find below some useful informations Allocations to CI have been controversial since the beginning and have been discussed intensively on list since 2014. Board got involved at some point as one can see from the minutes of board meetings held in November 2014(*) It reads: ==== 2.0 Discussion and decision about the Board Statement regarding the case of a particular resource application. There was a discussion about whether the Board should make a statement. SF said that a message had been sent on the RPD list. The CEO pointed out that the Registration Services Team has encountered several difficulties with the application. AA argued that a statement made by a third party on the list meant there was a dispute. The Legal Counsel explained the term ?dispute? and suggested that there is no dispute yet. The CEO said that right now there is no dispute. And that he has already given the confirmation for the staff to allocate the resources. The CEO reminded the Board of the need to stay within the policies. The Legal Counsel informed the Board that AFRINIC can?t withhold a genuine request for IP allocations, it has to allocate, and if later it gets evidence that the application was fraudulent, supported by evidence collected, then it will be able to recover the resources as per the RSA. The Board unanimously adopted the following resolution. Resolution 201411.214 The Board resolves that; The authority is hereby delegated to the CEO to use any available methods, at his discretion, to authenticate resource allocation applications. #### Few questionings to help the thinking: 1- Why was there a need for the Board at that time to get involved in a routinely operational matter of a resource allocation? 2. Why was there a need for the Board to pass a resolution for something suspicious that was already within the CEO?s authority? 3- Did we postpone the disputes to now ? (*)https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/2014-minutes/20141123-minutes.pdf > > > >> >> In my opinion, -all- of these allocations are suspect, and they are made >> moreso because neither Lu Heng nor his apparent primary spokesman here, >> Owen DeLong, has seen fit to share with any of us any of the materials or >> documentation that was used to provide the required justifications for >> any of these allocations -originally- even though it is 100% clear that >> all such records, dating back nearly five years ago to over eight years >> ago, are no longer in any sense relevant to Cloud Innovation's -current- >> business model or business operations. >> >> The time for dark secrets is over. Lu Heng has elected to try his case >> on the mailing lists and in the press. OK. Fine. Then let's do that. >> >> The question of whether or not Lu Heng's -current- usage of his IP space >> does or does not meet acceptable criteria is irrelevant if his -original- >> justifications for the space were in any way inadequate or less than >> truthful. So let's see those original justifications and let the people >> decide whether or not Lu Heng even deserved to be granted this much IPv4 >> space in the first place. >> >> Only Lu Heng can give us those original justification documents, if he so >> chooses. AFRINIC is still bound by confidentiality rules and thus cannot >> legally provide them to any party outside of AFRINIC. >> >> >> Regards, >> rfg >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rfg at tristatelogic.com Fri Aug 6 08:13:35 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2021 01:13:35 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Update 04 Aug 2021 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <86479.1628237615@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In message , Brian Sowers wrote: >All jokes aside, I am simply an internet activist... I admire you for the way you have been able to keep your Internet "activism" so totally secret over the years that it is not even possible to find a single trace of it, even via diligent Google searches. That's really an impressive record of achievement you have there! And I applaud you also for the the kind of selfless determination to your "activism" that has caused you to subsist on just the odd pineapple and whatever alms people have thrown into your bowl, even as you have achieved your impressive record of absolutely no notoriety whatsoever. Bravo! Regards, rfg From rfg at tristatelogic.com Fri Aug 6 08:49:58 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2021 01:49:58 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Share About Cloud Innovation Ltd and their business In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <86612.1628239798@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In message Arnaud AMELINA wrote: >... from the minutes of board meetings held in November 2014(*) >... >The Legal Counsel informed the Board that AFRINIC can't withhold a genuine >request for IP allocations, it has to allocate, and if later it gets >evidence that the application was fraudulent, supported by evidence >collected, then it will be able to recover the resources as per the RSA. Juat as I have said previously, this has been *the* problem with *all* of the RIRs and their "secret" procedures for making allocations of valuable resources, dating all of the way back to the beginning of the RIR system: How can anyone ever prove that there has been fraud in an application for number resources where no "outsider" or independent oversight body is ever even allowed to see the original requests and supporting materials? It is simply not possible. So all resource members and even prospective future resource members in all regions are 100% dependent upon the our faith in the honesty of the "insiders" who make these decisions. And in the case of Ernest, at least, we now know that that faith was quite seriously misplaced. In any case, as we all now also know, Ashok's cavalier comment that "Oh! If there is a problem, we'll just recover the resources!" can now been seen, with 20/20 hindsight, to have been, at best, rather over-optimistic. Because reclaiming resources is not quite so simple, apparently (which may be the understatement of the century). Regards, rfg From jcurran at arin.net Fri Aug 6 10:05:53 2021 From: jcurran at arin.net (John Curran) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2021 10:05:53 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Share About Cloud Innovation Ltd and their business In-Reply-To: References: <31299.1627244609@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <745F630B-A186-481C-9704-BCA2A0869089@delong.com> <418e1240-bbaa-b658-43aa-dfd75fc769db@geier.ne.tz> <014477A4-1987-43FB-B8A8-A70B746B3A5A@delong.com> Message-ID: On 5 Aug 2021, at 6:04 PM, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss > wrote: ... ALL LIRs lease INRs. Many do it in relation to also providing connectivity services. Cloud Innovation also does it in relation to providing connectivity services in some (but not all) cases. ... We (Cloud Innovation) have customers just like any other LIR. We (Cloud Innovation) assign addresses to them for use on internet connected hosts, just like any other LIR. The only distinction between us (Cloud Innovation) and most other LIRs is that we will do so regardless of whether we are the provider of that connectivity or not. Owen - Thanks for the above ? I believe it is helpful in clarifying how the IP address blocks are being used today. For my understanding, is this same purpose for which they were originally requested and issued? Thanks in advance, /John John Curran President and CEO American Registry for Internet Numbers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Fri Aug 6 14:39:34 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2021 17:39:34 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?=5Bripe-list=5D_INRs_War_=28was=3A_?= =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry_service_migration_to?= =?utf-8?q?_other_RIRs=29?= In-Reply-To: References: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> <77B645D6-93CA-4DF4-B44A-C1D64F0F69DF@consulintel.es> Message-ID: Shalom Sylvain, On Wed, Aug 4, 2021 at 2:13 PM Sylvain Baya wrote: > {apologies for crossposting} > Dear RIPE-Lister, > > Hope you are well. > > Please see my comments below, inline... > > Le mar. 3 ao?t 2021 ? 10:07 AM, Daniel Karrenberg a ?crit : > >> >> >> On 2 Aug 2021, at 20:45, Randy Bush wrote: >> >> > ignore the lies and escalation. it is just designed to >> > create doubt and confusion. >> > Time and space has a way of revealing the truth. >> >> Could not agree more. > > > > Hi Daniel, > Thanks for your email, brother. > > ...this is an *INRs War*. it's no more only > about few/full lies. > > It seems as AfriNIC is just the first step... > No kidding, inlight of the so-called Number Resources Alliance which I 100% is backed by IPv$ brokers for Larus at the front line. > > > This guy quotes his very own comment on Rob >> Blokzijl?s obituary and puts his own words in the mouth of Rob who >> cannot do anything about it anymore. He even puts this ?quote? in >> the charter of his new anti-RIR club. Distasteful. A disgrace. >> >> > > ...from the home page of the NRA: > > ~?~ > NUMBER > RESOURCES > SOCIETY > > "RIR is just a bookkeeper" > What they don't know is that an RIR like AFRINIC does more than just the registry services even though Lu Heng our of ignorance mistakenly thinks the RIR is a bookkeeper like wannabe mini-RIR Larus. 1. AFRINIC for instance is involved with a number of other activities - Internet Number Resources Management - Resource Certification Program (RPKI) - Internet Routing Registry (IRR) - DNSSEC Program - WHOIS Services - Training Services in Collaboration with NOG's - Online Services - DNS Support Program - Root Server Copy Programme - Services like my.afrinic.net 2. AFRINIC carries out Research for the benefit of wide membership like: - Internet Technical Infrastructure - Internet Access - Internet Policy and Governance - Internet Resilience - Internet Standards and Protocols - Internet Measurement 3. AFRINIC providers Fund for Internet Research and Education and other Internet initiatives across AFRICA. 4. AFRINIC supports Internet Exchange Points across AFRICA *Does LARUS Limited and its Larus Foundation have such capabilities? or any IPv$ broker out there.?* Cheers, Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From abscoco at gmail.com Fri Aug 6 15:54:51 2021 From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain Baya) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2021 16:54:51 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Share About Cloud Innovation Ltd and their business In-Reply-To: References: <31299.1627244609@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <745F630B-A186-481C-9704-BCA2A0869089@delong.com> <418e1240-bbaa-b658-43aa-dfd75fc769db@geier.ne.tz> <014477A4-1987-43FB-B8A8-A70B746B3A5A@delong.com> Message-ID: {warning: top-posting!} Dear AfriNIC's Community, ...this is a pure "dialogue of deafs" :'-( Shalom, --sb. Le jeudi 5 ao?t 2021, Owen DeLong a ?crit : > > > On Aug 5, 2021, at 04:44 , Sylvain Baya wrote: > > Dear AfriNIC's Community, > > Please see my comments below, inline... > > Le mardi 3 ao?t 2021, Owen DeLong a ?crit : > >> >> >> On Aug 2, 2021, at 00:03 , Sylvain Baya wrote: >> >> Dear AfriNIC's Community, >> >> Please see my comments below, inline... >> >> Le samedi 31 juillet 2021, Owen DeLong a ?crit : >>> >>> >>> On Jul 30, 2021, at 15:14 , Sylvain Baya wrote: >>> >>> Dear AfriNIC's Community, >>> >>> Le mercredi 28 juillet 2021, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss < >>> community-discuss at afrinic.net> a ?crit : >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> [...] >>>>> >>>>> >>> I have not forgotten, but we are not talking about reservation. >>> >>> >> Hi Owen, >> Thanks to take time to reply to my email, brother. >> >> ...so, *we*! i assume the same *we* you usually >> use to call your team to support your personal interpretation of the >> facts? >> >> >> No, we is you and I, the people engaged in this particular conversational >> thread. >> >> >> > > Hi Owen, > Thanks for your clarification, brother. > > ...so, you try to impose to all others a particular > theme? > > > ??? I don?t try to impose anything. I simply made a statement about > the nature of the items you and I were discussing. They are not > reservations > by the meaning contained any AFRINIC governing document. > > Please, sir, how can i be removed from your pool? > > > I am very confused here. What pool do you speak of? > > > >> >>> >>> [...] >>> >> >> We don?t do anything to interfere with or prevent end-users >> or clients from seeking internet number resources from any >> other source. >> >> > ...please, sir, could you share your stats on the number of orgs, you have > helped to become LIR > since the time your org shipted from LIR to INRs > seller? mini-RIR? or Global LIR? > > > No. Doing so would violate the confidentiality of my clients and is not > material to any > legitimate discussion here. > > RFC7020 states: > > ~?~ > [...] > > In > cases where LIRs span multiple regions, those LIRs have > established relationships with multiple RIRs. > > [...] > ~?~ > > ...full part: > > ~?~ > > Local IRs > > Local Internet Registries (LIRs) are established through a > relationship with the body from which they received their > addresses, typically the RIR that serves the region in which they > operate, a parent LIR, or other number-allocating entity. In > cases where LIRs span multiple regions, those LIRs have > established relationships with multiple RIRs. LIRs perform IP > address allocation services for their customers, typically ISPs, > end users, or child LIRs (also known as "sub-LIRs"). > > ~?~ > > > > First, you seem to have missed this: > > Abstract > > This document provides information about the current Internet Numbers > Registry System used in the distribution of globally unique Internet > Protocol (IP) address space and autonomous system (AS) numbers. > > This document also provides information about the processes for > further evolution of the Internet Numbers Registry System. > > This document replaces > RFC 2050 > . > > This document does not propose any changes to the current Internet > Numbers Registry System. Rather, it documents the Internet Numbers > Registry System as it works today. > > > Then as you have pointed out, it states ?typically?. By definition, this > means that there > are likely to exist atypical situations as well. > > There are, in fact, multiple entities operating in multiple regions, but > only having > relationships with a single RIR and there is nothing (outside of one > LACNIC policy) > that serves to hamper or restrict this behavior. > > Owen > > > -- -- Best Regards ! __ baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]| Subscribe to Mailing List: __ #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|#?Romains15?:33?Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec vous tous! ?#?Amen?!? ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement? ?Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!?(#Psaumes42:2) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From b.sowers154 at gmail.com Sat Aug 7 05:32:12 2021 From: b.sowers154 at gmail.com (Brian Sowers) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2021 01:32:12 -0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] History Lesson -- Looting AFRINIC -- The Beginning Message-ID: <78116508-06EA-4AB7-8823-828F4FEC561A@gmail.com> Ronald, Ah yes, the great african heist?your claim to fame. Did RIPE or AFRINIC ever express their thanks for your great work? https://www.ripe.net/participate/mail/forum/db-wg/PDQ2NzQ5LjE2MTE5NDA4NTNAc2VnZmF1bHQudHJpc3RhdGVsb2dpYy5jb20+ I hope so, because then something else would have to explain your self-aggrandizement. If not, well? now we know where your grabs at self importance come from. But what you really have just done is to expose AFRINIC as being corrupted since its second ever employee, Ernest Byaruhanga. As much as I wish for Africa to develop her internet, her attempts to recall IP spaces back to her domain is too little, too late. It?s time to look forward and accept its losses. The current litigation with Cloud is a perfect example. How can AFRINIC justify putting both global internet stability AND African internet stability at risk? Mind you, according to your work, 1/6 of Cloud?s IP spaces route through AFRICA. We are talking *millions* of users inside and outside AFRICA. And besides, according to the RSA with Cloud, there?s not much legal footing for AFRINIC contending the allocated spaces being used outside Africa is in violation because it isn?t explicitly said so. This interpretation of the RSA is at the heart of the issue. Regardless, these spaces are already out in the wild. It?s time for AFRINIC to learn from its policy mistakes, prevent further fraud (especially from the inside), and to look at the bigger picture globally. If it wants those IP spaces back, then buy them back. I?m sure Noah?s PayPal contribution can start the trend. -Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rfg at tristatelogic.com Sat Aug 7 05:59:23 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2021 22:59:23 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] History Lesson -- Looting AFRINIC -- The Beginning In-Reply-To: <78116508-06EA-4AB7-8823-828F4FEC561A@gmail.com> Message-ID: <90555.1628315963@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In message <78116508-06EA-4AB7-8823-828F4FEC561A at gmail.com>, Brian Sowers wrote: >Ah yes, the great african heist-your claim to fame. Did RIPE or >AFRINIC ever express their thanks for your great work? Yes, actually, they did. >As much as I wish for Africa to develop her internet, her attempts to recall >IP spaces back to her domain is too little, too late. Fortunately, it's not up to you. >How can AFRINIC justify putting both global internet stability AND African >internet stability at risk? They are not putting anything at risk except the windfall profits of ONE exceptionally greedy foreign buccaneer capitalist. Everything else is just spin and fake news, and has already been proven, repeatedly, to be so. >Mind you, according to your work, 1/6 of Cloud's IP spaces route through >AFRICA. I have no idea where you are getting this figure, but I guess that you are pulling out of your backside, along with the rest of your uninformed personal opinions. I certainly have never made any such assertion. That last time that *I* looked, some months ago now, well over 90% of Cloud Innovation's AFRNIC-issued IPv4 space was routed to places that were not even anywhere near Africa. Regards, rfg P.S. Please remind me again... Who did you say was paying you? https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_fit-1240w,f_auto,q_auto:best/streams/2012/December/121210/1C5139982-helenaspopkin5600B3E7-A9B3-CFB5-1074-C6205EF23A79.jpg From pascosoft at gmail.com Sat Aug 7 08:00:34 2021 From: pascosoft at gmail.com (Paschal Ochang) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2021 09:00:34 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] History Lesson -- Looting AFRINIC -- The Beginning In-Reply-To: References: <76552.1628057777@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: On Thursday, August 5, 2021, Noah wrote: > > > On Wed, 4 Aug 2021, 09:20 Ronald F. Guilmette, > wrote: > >> >> I just wanted everyone to be aware of the history here. Going all of the >> way back to 2013 it appears clear that certain non-Africans have been >> eager to get their hands on these valuable "natural resources" of Africa, >> using ANY MEANS NECESSARY, and that once having obtained these 21st >> century >> blood diamonds, they were very much in a hurry to move them out of Africa >> and get them to market as quickly as possible. >> > > > Lu fits the bill as well. The lad literary refers to IPv4 as Gold. > Apparently to him its better than bitcoin so forget the blood diamonds. > > Dude active In Nigeria currently soliciting for support from few ISP's who > he is promising millions of Naira. > Wow. This is really interesting. Are you saying Lu is currently in Nigeria soliciting with ISPs or he is doing this remotely. Are you insinuating that Nigerian ISPs are being bought over by Lu? These may be seen as string accusations not just against Lu but Nigerians as well and may be taken out of context. So please sometimes we need to self reflect about some of our messages before sending our messages in this current keyboard war, cos most of the messages I am seeing on all mailing lists have been doing more harm than good. > > > >> Now here we are, here, eight years later, in 2021. Has anything changed? > > > Nothing considering how Mr.Vapourware is fighting to defend the loot. > > Noah > > -- Kind regards, Paschal. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Sat Aug 7 08:39:11 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2021 11:39:11 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] History Lesson -- Looting AFRINIC -- The Beginning In-Reply-To: <78116508-06EA-4AB7-8823-828F4FEC561A@gmail.com> References: <78116508-06EA-4AB7-8823-828F4FEC561A@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Aug 2021, 08:39 Brian Sowers, wrote: > I?m sure Noah?s PayPal contribution can start the trend. > Donations across Africa today are done via Digital Mobile Money (MoMo) wallets and not PayPal. One thing about Africans unlike the west, is that, our culture is not so individualistic in nature since we have this sense of community and "ubuntu" especially when it concerns a matter of collective interest. Cheers, Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sfolayan at gmail.com Sat Aug 7 08:40:40 2021 From: sfolayan at gmail.com (Sunday Folayan) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2021 09:40:40 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] History Lesson -- Looting AFRINIC -- The Beginning In-Reply-To: References: <76552.1628057777@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 9:03 AM Paschal Ochang wrote: > > > On Thursday, August 5, 2021, Noah wrote: > >> >> >> On Wed, 4 Aug 2021, 09:20 Ronald F. Guilmette, >> wrote: >> >>> >>> I just wanted everyone to be aware of the history here. Going all of the >>> way back to 2013 it appears clear that certain non-Africans have been >>> eager to get their hands on these valuable "natural resources" of Africa, >>> using ANY MEANS NECESSARY, and that once having obtained these 21st >>> century >>> blood diamonds, they were very much in a hurry to move them out of Africa >>> and get them to market as quickly as possible. >>> >> >> >> Lu fits the bill as well. The lad literary refers to IPv4 as Gold. >> Apparently to him its better than bitcoin so forget the blood diamonds. >> >> Dude active In Nigeria currently soliciting for support from few ISP's >> who he is promising millions of Naira. >> > > Wow. This is really interesting. Are you saying Lu is currently in Nigeria > soliciting with ISPs or he is doing this remotely. Are you insinuating that > Nigerian ISPs are being bought over by Lu? These may be seen as string > accusations not just against Lu but Nigerians as well and may be taken out > of context. So please sometimes we need to self reflect about some of our > messages before sending our messages in this current keyboard war, cos most > of the messages I am seeing on all mailing lists have been doing more harm > than good. > Well put. The Nigerian Internet community is cultured and not fragmented. We know when to speak, how to speak and what to say. This is not how to extend an invitation to speak - Sunday. A Nigerian Community Elder. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net Sat Aug 7 08:59:50 2021 From: Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net (Omo Oaiya) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2021 09:59:50 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] History Lesson -- Looting AFRINIC -- The Beginning In-Reply-To: References: <76552.1628057777@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Aug 2021, 09:42 Sunday Folayan, wrote: > On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 9:03 AM Paschal Ochang wrote: > >> >> >> On Thursday, August 5, 2021, Noah wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, 4 Aug 2021, 09:20 Ronald F. Guilmette, >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> I just wanted everyone to be aware of the history here. Going all of >>>> the >>>> way back to 2013 it appears clear that certain non-Africans have been >>>> eager to get their hands on these valuable "natural resources" of >>>> Africa, >>>> using ANY MEANS NECESSARY, and that once having obtained these 21st >>>> century >>>> blood diamonds, they were very much in a hurry to move them out of >>>> Africa >>>> and get them to market as quickly as possible. >>>> >>> >>> >>> Lu fits the bill as well. The lad literary refers to IPv4 as Gold. >>> Apparently to him its better than bitcoin so forget the blood diamonds. >>> >>> Dude active In Nigeria currently soliciting for support from few ISP's >>> who he is promising millions of Naira. >>> >> >> Wow. This is really interesting. Are you saying Lu is currently in >> Nigeria soliciting with ISPs or he is doing this remotely. Are you >> insinuating that Nigerian ISPs are being bought over by Lu? These may be >> seen as string accusations not just against Lu but Nigerians as well and >> may be taken out of context. So please sometimes we need to self reflect >> about some of our messages before sending our messages in this current >> keyboard war, cos most of the messages I am seeing on all mailing lists >> have been doing more harm than good. >> > > Well put. The Nigerian Internet community is cultured and not fragmented. > We know when to speak, how to speak and what to say. This is not how to > extend an invitation to speak > > - Sunday. > A Nigerian Community Elder > SF, Are you speaking for the Nigerian Internet Community? I am in Nigeria and know ISPs that have been approached by these folks Omo > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Sat Aug 7 09:00:33 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2021 12:00:33 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] History Lesson -- Looting AFRINIC -- The Beginning In-Reply-To: References: <76552.1628057777@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Aug 2021, 11:00 Paschal Ochang, wrote: > > > On Thursday, August 5, 2021, Noah wrote: > >> >> >> On Wed, 4 Aug 2021, 09:20 Ronald F. Guilmette, >> wrote: >> >>> >>> I just wanted everyone to be aware of the history here. Going all of the >>> way back to 2013 it appears clear that certain non-Africans have been >>> eager to get their hands on these valuable "natural resources" of Africa, >>> using ANY MEANS NECESSARY, and that once having obtained these 21st >>> century >>> blood diamonds, they were very much in a hurry to move them out of Africa >>> and get them to market as quickly as possible. >>> >> >> >> Lu fits the bill as well. The lad literary refers to IPv4 as Gold. >> Apparently to him its better than bitcoin so forget the blood diamonds. >> >> Dude active In Nigeria currently soliciting for support from few ISP's >> who he is promising millions of Naira. >> > > Wow. This is really interesting. Are you saying Lu is currently in Nigeria > soliciting with ISPs or he is doing this remotely. > The internet has enabled remote video and audio calls this days. Are you insinuating that Nigerian ISPs are being bought over by Lu? > The word I used was "few" and I did not say those few are being bought. I wrote that they are being promised richness :-) These may be seen as string accusations not just against Lu > I am not too good with beating around the bush. But let us just say that, "there is no smoke without fire" :-) but Nigerians > Not at all about our fellow kinsmen but let's say a few misguided folk in NG who may fall for it. FWIW, am sure anyone who has interacted with Lu Heng beyond NG has been promised richness in few dollars for IPv4 they may not be using currently which Lu refers to us, as idle resources that can be leased elsewhere and he knows that what I am saying is true. Cheers Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Sat Aug 7 09:16:30 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2021 12:16:30 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] History Lesson -- Looting AFRINIC -- The Beginning In-Reply-To: References: <76552.1628057777@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Aug 2021, 11:40 Sunday Folayan, wrote: > On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 9:03 AM Paschal Ochang wrote: > >> >> >> On Thursday, August 5, 2021, Noah wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, 4 Aug 2021, 09:20 Ronald F. Guilmette, >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> I just wanted everyone to be aware of the history here. Going all of >>>> the >>>> way back to 2013 it appears clear that certain non-Africans have been >>>> eager to get their hands on these valuable "natural resources" of >>>> Africa, >>>> using ANY MEANS NECESSARY, and that once having obtained these 21st >>>> century >>>> blood diamonds, they were very much in a hurry to move them out of >>>> Africa >>>> and get them to market as quickly as possible. >>>> >>> >>> >>> Lu fits the bill as well. The lad literary refers to IPv4 as Gold. >>> Apparently to him its better than bitcoin so forget the blood diamonds. >>> >>> Dude active In Nigeria currently soliciting for support from few ISP's >>> who he is promising millions of Naira. >>> >> >> Wow. This is really interesting. Are you saying Lu is currently in >> Nigeria soliciting with ISPs or he is doing this remotely. Are you >> insinuating that Nigerian ISPs are being bought over by Lu? These may be >> seen as string accusations not just against Lu but Nigerians as well and >> may be taken out of context. So please sometimes we need to self reflect >> about some of our messages before sending our messages in this current >> keyboard war, cos most of the messages I am seeing on all mailing lists >> have been doing more harm than good. >> > > Well put. The Nigerian Internet community is cultured and not fragmented. > We know when to speak, how to speak and what to say. This is not how to > extend an invitation to speak > Ooh well, Reverand, I am sure you know our African saying that goes "Spare the rod, Spoil the Child". Good to here from you :-). Cheers, Noah > > - Sunday. > A Nigerian Community Elder. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From abscoco at gmail.com Sat Aug 7 11:50:31 2021 From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain Baya) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2021 12:50:31 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Share About Cloud Innovation Ltd and their business In-Reply-To: References: <31299.1627244609@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <745F630B-A186-481C-9704-BCA2A0869089@delong.com> <418e1240-bbaa-b658-43aa-dfd75fc769db@geier.ne.tz> <014477A4-1987-43FB-B8A8-A70B746B3A5A@delong.com> Message-ID: Dear AfriNIC's Community, Please see my comment below, inline... Le vendredi 6 ao?t 2021, John Curran a ?crit : > On 5 Aug 2021, at 6:04 PM, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss < > community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > > ... > ALL LIRs lease INRs. Many do it in relation to also providing > connectivity services. Cloud Innovation also does it in relation > to providing connectivity services in some (but not all) cases. > > ... We (Cloud Innovation) have customers just like any other LIR. > > We (Cloud Innovation) assign addresses to them for use on internet > connected hosts, just like any other LIR. The only distinction between > us (Cloud Innovation) and most other LIRs is that we will do so regardless > of whether we are the provider of that connectivity or not. > > > Owen - > > Thanks for the above ? I believe it is helpful in clarifying how the IP > address blocks are being used today. For my understanding, is this same > purpose for which they were originally requested and issued? > > ...well put, dear John, Thanks for this interesting question. ...they started an "INRs War"; against RFC7020. Shalom, --sb. > Thanks in advance, > /John > > John Curran > President and CEO > American Registry for Internet Numbers > > > > -- -- Best Regards ! __ baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]| Subscribe to Mailing List: __ #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|#?Romains15?:33?Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec vous tous! ?#?Amen?!? ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement? ?Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!?(#Psaumes42:2) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sfolayan at gmail.com Sat Aug 7 15:12:37 2021 From: sfolayan at gmail.com (Sunday Folayan) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2021 16:12:37 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] History Lesson -- Looting AFRINIC -- The Beginning In-Reply-To: References: <76552.1628057777@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 10:16 AM Noah wrote: > > > On Sat, 7 Aug 2021, 11:40 Sunday Folayan, wrote: > >> On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 9:03 AM Paschal Ochang >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Thursday, August 5, 2021, Noah wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, 4 Aug 2021, 09:20 Ronald F. Guilmette, >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> I just wanted everyone to be aware of the history here. Going all of >>>>> the >>>>> way back to 2013 it appears clear that certain non-Africans have been >>>>> eager to get their hands on these valuable "natural resources" of >>>>> Africa, >>>>> using ANY MEANS NECESSARY, and that once having obtained these 21st >>>>> century >>>>> blood diamonds, they were very much in a hurry to move them out of >>>>> Africa >>>>> and get them to market as quickly as possible. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Lu fits the bill as well. The lad literary refers to IPv4 as Gold. >>>> Apparently to him its better than bitcoin so forget the blood diamonds. >>>> >>>> Dude active In Nigeria currently soliciting for support from few ISP's >>>> who he is promising millions of Naira. >>>> >>> >>> Wow. This is really interesting. Are you saying Lu is currently in >>> Nigeria soliciting with ISPs or he is doing this remotely. Are you >>> insinuating that Nigerian ISPs are being bought over by Lu? These may be >>> seen as string accusations not just against Lu but Nigerians as well and >>> may be taken out of context. So please sometimes we need to self reflect >>> about some of our messages before sending our messages in this current >>> keyboard war, cos most of the messages I am seeing on all mailing lists >>> have been doing more harm than good. >>> >> >> Well put. The Nigerian Internet community is cultured and not fragmented. >> We know when to speak, how to speak and what to say. This is not how to >> extend an invitation to speak >> > > > Ooh well, Reverand, I am sure you know our African saying that goes "Spare > the rod, Spoil the Child". > Actually, that one is from the Bible. Proverbs 13:24. You are an aspiring "pontiff without borders". The appropriate African proverb, if I may, is "Caution with a leper, his limbs cannot milk a cow, but it can spill a full pitcher of milk" Good to here from you :-). > > Happy to see fresh and stronger horses, pulling the chariot. Sunday. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Sat Aug 7 17:24:14 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2021 20:24:14 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] History Lesson -- Looting AFRINIC -- The Beginning In-Reply-To: References: <76552.1628057777@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Aug 2021, 18:12 Sunday Folayan, wrote: > On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 10:16 AM Noah wrote: > >> >> >> On Sat, 7 Aug 2021, 11:40 Sunday Folayan, wrote: >> >>> On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 9:03 AM Paschal Ochang >>> wrote: >>> >> >>> Well put. The Nigerian Internet community is cultured and not >>> fragmented. We know when to speak, how to speak and what to say. This is >>> not how to extend an invitation to speak >>> >> >> >> Ooh well, Reverand, I am sure you know our African saying that goes >> "Spare the rod, Spoil the Child". >> > > Actually, that one is from the Bible. Proverbs 13:24. > Most of us resonated with the proverb which enforces a sense of responsibility and accountability. You are an aspiring "pontiff without borders". > I am not sure if you indulge yourself in history but I will remind us about one of the greated statesmen of Africa the Late.Mwalimu Nyerere. You see when Gen.Sani Abacha went hard on His.Excellence Olusegon Obasanjo, It was Mwalimu Nyerere who intervened to help save Hon.Obasanjo who went to later on lead NG through a transformation that we all pride ourselves with today. Had Obasanjo not been freed from Prison, perhaps things would have taken a different turn. Mwalimu made .NG issues his issues and history remembers. So my brother your issues are my issues and my issues in this other parts of Africa are your issues and across this continent and therefore its my responsibility to call out those few among us who are acting in bad faith and against our collective interest. Lu Heng self-serving capitalistic philosophy of one world, one internet, digital globalism is total bullshit. Let him build a real network instead of promising dollars for each IPv4 interger to a few misguided people. Cheers, Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jcurran at arin.net Sun Aug 8 13:21:44 2021 From: jcurran at arin.net (John Curran) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2021 13:21:44 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Share About Cloud Innovation Ltd and their business In-Reply-To: References: <31299.1627244609@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <745F630B-A186-481C-9704-BCA2A0869089@delong.com> <418e1240-bbaa-b658-43aa-dfd75fc769db@geier.ne.tz> <014477A4-1987-43FB-B8A8-A70B746B3A5A@delong.com> Message-ID: <3FB420FE-911E-4972-9B12-511EB6B9D7AB@arin.net> On 6 Aug 2021, at 6:05 AM, John Curran > wrote: On 5 Aug 2021, at 6:04 PM, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss > wrote: ... ALL LIRs lease INRs. Many do it in relation to also providing connectivity services. Cloud Innovation also does it in relation to providing connectivity services in some (but not all) cases. ... We (Cloud Innovation) have customers just like any other LIR. We (Cloud Innovation) assign addresses to them for use on internet connected hosts, just like any other LIR. The only distinction between us (Cloud Innovation) and most other LIRs is that we will do so regardless of whether we are the provider of that connectivity or not. Owen - Thanks for the above ? I believe it is helpful in clarifying how the IP address blocks are being used today. For my understanding, is this same purpose for which they were originally requested and issued? Owen - You have posted dozens of messages to this list of rationale asserting Cloud Innovation?s legitimacy in number resource matters, even going so face as observing that they are "a model citizen of the IP number resource using community? and a party with ?meticulous? record keeping. You have also taken to responding to many messages on this list detailing their IP number resource utilization as proper, and have no issue identifying as ?We (Cloud Innovation)? in those responses. Surely you could do the AFRINIC community the courtesy of an answer to a single question about their number resource utilization ? i.e. a yes/no question of fact regarding the number resources that Cloud Innovation obtained from AFRINIC and that now appear subject to dispute with AFRINIC? (While I am sure that many have found your many assertions enlightening, it is often helpful to have clear statements of fact in order keep discussions well-informed and anchored to reality.) Again, for clarity ? ?Is Cloud Innovation?s usage today of the number resources for the same purpose for which they were originally requested and issued?? This simple question is certainly something that the community has a reasonable right to know ? and should be trivial to answer given your exhaustive knowledge demonstrated in correspondence already on the matter. Thanks in advance! /John John Curran President and CEO American Registry for Internet Numbers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sfolayan at gmail.com Mon Aug 9 06:59:22 2021 From: sfolayan at gmail.com (Sunday Folayan) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2021 07:59:22 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] History Lesson -- Looting AFRINIC -- The Beginning In-Reply-To: References: <76552.1628057777@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 6:24 PM Noah wrote: > > > On Sat, 7 Aug 2021, 18:12 Sunday Folayan, wrote: > >> On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 10:16 AM Noah wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, 7 Aug 2021, 11:40 Sunday Folayan, wrote: >>> >>>> On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 9:03 AM Paschal Ochang >>>> wrote: >>>> >>> >>>> Well put. The Nigerian Internet community is cultured and not >>>> fragmented. We know when to speak, how to speak and what to say. This is >>>> not how to extend an invitation to speak >>>> >>> >>> >>> Ooh well, Reverand, I am sure you know our African saying that goes >>> "Spare the rod, Spoil the Child". >>> >> >> Actually, that one is from the Bible. Proverbs 13:24. >> > > Most of us resonated with the proverb which enforces a sense of > responsibility and accountability. > > You are an aspiring "pontiff without borders". >> > > I am not sure if you indulge yourself in history but I will remind us > about one of the greated statesmen of Africa the Late.Mwalimu Nyerere. > > You see when Gen.Sani Abacha went hard on His.Excellence Olusegon > Obasanjo, It was Mwalimu Nyerere who intervened to help save Hon.Obasanjo > who went to later on lead NG through a transformation that we all pride > ourselves with today. Had Obasanjo not been freed from Prison, perhaps > things would have taken a different turn. > > This story is new to me. What I know is that Obasanjo was not freed from prison by Abacha based on any pressure. He ignored all. Abacha died with Obasanjo still in prison. Indeed, Yaradua, Obasanjo's deputy who was jailed along with him, died in prison. The new government freed Obasanjo as an appeasement to a Nation on edge. Back to AfriNIC, an inclusive community is a plus at any point in time. Let us cultivate and nurture all members, irrespective of our need for their support at any time. Disparage no one. Not Nigerians. My 2 Kobo. Sunday. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pascosoft at gmail.com Mon Aug 9 09:36:48 2021 From: pascosoft at gmail.com (Paschal Ochang) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2021 10:36:48 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] History Lesson -- Looting AFRINIC -- The Beginning In-Reply-To: References: <76552.1628057777@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: On Monday, August 9, 2021, Sunday Folayan wrote: > > > On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 6:24 PM Noah wrote: > >> >> >> On Sat, 7 Aug 2021, 18:12 Sunday Folayan, wrote: >> >>> On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 10:16 AM Noah wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sat, 7 Aug 2021, 11:40 Sunday Folayan, wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 9:03 AM Paschal Ochang >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>> >>>>> Well put. The Nigerian Internet community is cultured and not >>>>> fragmented. We know when to speak, how to speak and what to say. This is >>>>> not how to extend an invitation to speak >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Ooh well, Reverand, I am sure you know our African saying that goes >>>> "Spare the rod, Spoil the Child". >>>> >>> >>> Actually, that one is from the Bible. Proverbs 13:24. >>> >> >> Most of us resonated with the proverb which enforces a sense of >> responsibility and accountability. >> >> You are an aspiring "pontiff without borders". >>> >> >> I am not sure if you indulge yourself in history but I will remind us >> about one of the greated statesmen of Africa the Late.Mwalimu Nyerere. >> >> You see when Gen.Sani Abacha went hard on His.Excellence Olusegon >> Obasanjo, It was Mwalimu Nyerere who intervened to help save Hon.Obasanjo >> who went to later on lead NG through a transformation that we all pride >> ourselves with today. Had Obasanjo not been freed from Prison, perhaps >> things would have taken a different turn. >> >> > This story is new to me. What I know is that Obasanjo was not freed from > prison by Abacha based on any pressure. He ignored all. Abacha died with > Obasanjo still in prison. Indeed, Yaradua, Obasanjo's deputy who was jailed > along with him, died in prison. The new government freed Obasanjo as an > appeasement to a Nation on edge. > Thank you Reverand (Elder States Man) for the clarification. I hope Obasanjo does not get to hear that he was released by Abacha when it wasn't true. Hahah Back to AfriNIC, an inclusive community is a plus at any point in time. Let > us cultivate and nurture all members, irrespective of our need for their > support at any time. Disparage no one. Not Nigerians. > > My 2 Kobo. > Your 2Kobo has been well received and will be well spent using the parable of the talents > Sunday. > > -- Kind regards, Paschal. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From omo.oaiya at wacren.net Mon Aug 9 11:24:01 2021 From: omo.oaiya at wacren.net (Omo Oaiya) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2021 12:24:01 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] History Lesson -- Looting AFRINIC -- The Beginning In-Reply-To: References: <76552.1628057777@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: <8F921320-2458-45CB-8039-80E6A530B35E@wacren.net> > On 9 Aug 2021, at 07:59, Sunday Folayan wrote: > > Let us cultivate and nurture all members, irrespective of our need for their support at any time. Disparage no one. Not Nigerians. I am responding to this to temper the nationalism. I feel I can because I am also Nigerian. Noah?s comment which I have pasted below was clear. It is the truth and can be evidenced. Importantly, it did not disparage anyone, talk less Nigerians. Maybe read it again? Omo > Dude active In Nigeria currently soliciting for support from few ISP's who he is promising millions of Naira. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net Mon Aug 9 15:57:30 2021 From: Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net (Omo Oaiya) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2021 16:57:30 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] History Lesson -- Looting AFRINIC -- The Beginning In-Reply-To: <84c7e7d7-8f7e-329e-d3cc-8dd9e4fde621@geier.ne.tz> References: <76552.1628057777@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <8F921320-2458-45CB-8039-80E6A530B35E@wacren.net> <84c7e7d7-8f7e-329e-d3cc-8dd9e4fde621@geier.ne.tz> Message-ID: Correct. I just replied all without checking. This is the correct list. > On 9 Aug 2021, at 12:29, Frank Habicht > wrote: > > Hi, > > I have nothing against anything that has been stated, but... > ... I have lost track which policy proposal this is about. > > Maybe the discussion can get restricted to one mailing list only? > community-discuss seems more appropriate.... > > Frank > > On 09/08/2021 14:24, Omo Oaiya wrote: >> >> >>> On 9 Aug 2021, at 07:59, Sunday Folayan >>> >> wrote: >>> >>> Let us cultivate and nurture all members, irrespective of our need >>> for their support at any time. Disparage no one. Not Nigerians. >> >> I am responding to this to temper the nationalism. I feel I can because >> I am also Nigerian. Noah?s comment which I have pasted below was >> clear. It is the truth and can be evidenced. Importantly, it did not >> disparage anyone, talk less Nigerians. Maybe read it again? >> >> Omo >> >>> Dude active In Nigeria currently soliciting for support from few >>> ISP's who he is promising millions of Naira. >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> RPD mailing list >> RPD at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd >> > > _______________________________________________ > RPD mailing list > RPD at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd Omo OAIYA Chief Strategy Officer/Directeur de la Strat?gie | WACREN m: +234 808 888 1571 , +233 205 228 693 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Mon Aug 9 16:51:39 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2021 19:51:39 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] History Lesson -- Looting AFRINIC -- The Beginning In-Reply-To: References: <76552.1628057777@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 9, 2021 at 12:36 PM Paschal Ochang wrote: > > > On Monday, August 9, 2021, Sunday Folayan wrote: > >> >> >> On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 6:24 PM Noah wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, 7 Aug 2021, 18:12 Sunday Folayan, wrote: >>> >>>> On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 10:16 AM Noah wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, 7 Aug 2021, 11:40 Sunday Folayan, wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Aug 7, 2021 at 9:03 AM Paschal Ochang >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Well put. The Nigerian Internet community is cultured and not >>>>>> fragmented. We know when to speak, how to speak and what to say. This is >>>>>> not how to extend an invitation to speak >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Ooh well, Reverand, I am sure you know our African saying that goes >>>>> "Spare the rod, Spoil the Child". >>>>> >>>> >>>> Actually, that one is from the Bible. Proverbs 13:24. >>>> >>> >>> Most of us resonated with the proverb which enforces a sense of >>> responsibility and accountability. >>> >>> You are an aspiring "pontiff without borders". >>>> >>> >>> I am not sure if you indulge yourself in history but I will remind us >>> about one of the greated statesmen of Africa the Late.Mwalimu Nyerere. >>> >>> You see when Gen.Sani Abacha went hard on His.Excellence Olusegon >>> Obasanjo, It was Mwalimu Nyerere who intervened to help save Hon.Obasanjo >>> who went to later on lead NG through a transformation that we all pride >>> ourselves with today. Had Obasanjo not been freed from Prison, perhaps >>> things would have taken a different turn. >>> >>> >> This story is new to me. What I know is that Obasanjo was not freed from >> prison by Abacha based on any pressure. He ignored all. Abacha died with >> Obasanjo still in prison. Indeed, Yaradua, Obasanjo's deputy who was jailed >> along with him, died in prison. The new government freed Obasanjo as an >> appeasement to a Nation on edge. >> > The intervention to free Obasanjo took the efforts of Statesmen like Mwalimu Nyerere and others outside NG. > Thank you Reverand (Elder States Man) for the clarification. I hope > Obasanjo does not get to hear that he was released by Abacha when it wasn't > true. Hahah > Actually, Obasanjo himself publicly appreciated the efforts of Mwalimu and others outside NG who helped free him after Abacha's military dictatorship and demise. Back to AFRINIC, members should stay away from Lu Heng less they get misguided and mine was to point out that folks being contacted in .NG or .ZA or elsewhere within this service region should ignore that dude based in HongKong. Cheers, Noah *Read*: https://bit.ly/3s2RO4y -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Tue Aug 10 09:57:20 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 12:57:20 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Concerns_Grow_As_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_?= =?utf-8?q?Funds_Are_Frozen_Over_IPv4_Dispute?= Message-ID: Dear Community, I thought I should share this interesting article by Doug Madory, Director of Internet Analysis at Kentik. Read the article here https://www.kentik.com/blog/concerns-grow-as-afrinics-funds-are-frozen-over-ipv4-dispute/?s=09 And the most interesting part of the article was the below snip *IPv4: An Increasingly Valuable Commodity*In 2015, I authored one of the first analyses of the new private market for IPv4 address space. As the available supply of IPv4 addresses became exhausted and IPv6 adoption lagged, the demand for IPv4 naturally increased. Markets were established and what had once simply been a network configuration setting was now an increasingly valuable virtual commodity. The dramatic increase in value led to a burgeoning industry of IPv4 brokers as well as those who would attempt to obtain IPv4 directly from registries through duplicitous means. *In 2019, the Department of Justice indicted a man in South Carolina for fraudulently obtaining over 700,000 IPv4 addresses from North American registry ARIN estimated to be worth between ?$9,850,880 and $14,397,440.?In a Lightning Talk at LACNIC in 2018, Etienne Sharp blamed ?ghost companies? for spiriting into Latin America, setting up virtual offices to obtain precious IPv4 address space at little cost, and then proceeding to use the address space outside the LACNIC region. Russian security company DDoS-Guard (aka Dancom) was one of those ghost companies in Etienne?s presentation, and earlier this year, LACNIC revoked its right to use the address space it obtained from Belize.* And finally in 2019, internet researcher Ron Guilmette?s analysis uncovered the ?Great $50M African IP Address Heist? in which an AFRINIC employee had been selling large amounts of the region?s IPv4 address space for personal profit. It was also Ron?s analysis that contributed to LACNIC?s decision to revoke DDoS-Guard?s address space. Since that ?heist,? AFRINIC had a change in leadership and has been working to tighten up its controls around IPv4 allocation. It was this work that led it to revoke the address space of Cloud Innovation Ltd. That Cloud Innovation?s IPv4 space is used outside the AFRINIC region is clear and verifiable ? several major U.S. telecoms announce the space on behalf of their U.S. customers. The case hinges on whether the allocation of the address space violated AFRINIC policies, as written years ago. Cheers, *./noah* *Pontiff without Borders * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From abscoco at gmail.com Tue Aug 10 11:18:28 2021 From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain Baya) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 12:18:28 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?=5Bripe-list=5D_INRs_War_=28was=3A_?= =?utf-8?q?Call_for_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_registry_service_migration_to?= =?utf-8?q?_other_RIRs=29?= In-Reply-To: References: <17b0125a5ab.c2c4a55a628571.5951838250301157933@africaoncloud.net> <77B645D6-93CA-4DF4-B44A-C1D64F0F69DF@consulintel.es> Message-ID: {remove arin-discuss, as it has been closed} {apologies for ?-posting} Dear all, Please see my comments below, inline... Le vendredi 6 ao?t 2021, Noah a ?crit : > Shalom Sylvain, > Shalom Noah, Thanks for your email, brother. > > On Wed, Aug 4, 2021 at 2:13 PM Sylvain Baya wrote: > >> {apologies for crossposting} >> Dear RIPE-Lister, >> >> Hope you are well. >> >> Please see my comments below, inline... >> >> Le mar. 3 ao?t 2021 ? 10:07 AM, Daniel Karrenberg a >> ?crit : >> >>> >>> >>> On 2 Aug 2021, at 20:45, Randy Bush wrote: >>> >>> > ignore the lies and escalation. it is just designed to >>> > create doubt and confusion. >>> >> > Time and space has a way of revealing the truth. > > >>> >>> Could not agree more. >> >> >> >> Hi Daniel, >> Thanks for your email, brother. >> >> ...this is an *INRs War*. it's no more only >> about few/full lies. >> >> It seems as AfriNIC is just the first step... >> > > No kidding, inlight of the so-called Number Resources Alliance which I > 100% is backed by IPv$ brokers for Larus at the front line. > > Of course! ...i may be naive! but what i read seems to be clear for me. Hope to have more reaction from the entire Internet Numbers Registry Community. This [1]article seems to share evidence that AfriNIC is not the first target, by that kind of behaviours. __ [1]: Concerns Grow As AFRINIC?s Funds Are Frozen Over IPv4 Dispute, by Doug Madory, Director of Internet Analysis, AUGUST 06, 2021 ~?~ [...] In 2019, the Department of Justice indicted a man in South Carolina for fraudulently obtaining over 700,000 IPv4 addresses from North American registry ARIN estimated to be worth between ?$9,850,880 and $14,397,440.? In a Lightning Talk at LACNIC in 2018, Etienne Sharp blamed ?ghost companies? for spiriting into Latin America, setting up virtual offices to obtain precious IPv4 address space at little cost, and then proceeding to use the address space outside the LACNIC region. Russian security company DDoS-Guard (aka Dancom) was one of those ghost companies in Etienne?s presentation, and earlier this year, LACNIC revoked its right to use the address space it obtained from Belize. [...] ~?~ > > > >> >> >> This guy quotes his very own comment on Rob >>> Blokzijl?s obituary and puts his own words in the mouth of Rob who >>> cannot do anything about it anymore. He even puts this ?quote? in >>> the charter of his new anti-RIR club. Distasteful. A disgrace. >>> >>> >> >> ...from the home page of the NRA: >> >> ~?~ >> NUMBER >> RESOURCES >> SOCIETY >> >> "RIR is just a bookkeeper" >> > > What they don't know is that an RIR like AFRINIC does more than just the > registry services even though Lu Heng our of ignorance mistakenly thinks > the RIR is a bookkeeper like wannabe mini-RIR Larus. > > ...kind of! but a top-down one, calling to build an anonymous community; which would let them take all *good* decisions on their behalf. Could they follow the global policies [2] :'-( __ [2]: > 1. AFRINIC for instance is involved with a number of other activities > > - Internet Number Resources Management > - Resource Certification Program (RPKI) > > > > - Internet Routing Registry (IRR) > - DNSSEC Program > - WHOIS Services > > & good statistics: ...such as: ... > > - Training Services in Collaboration with NOG's > > ? *HelpDesk* [3] to freely support Deployment Operationalization (DO) within the AfriNIC service region. > - Online Services > - DNS Support Program > - Root Server Copy Programme > - Services like my.afrinic.net > > 2. AFRINIC carries out Research for the benefit of wide membership like: > > - Internet Technical Infrastructure > - Internet Access > - Internet Policy and Governance > - Internet Resilience > - Internet Standards and Protocols > - Internet Measurement > > ...as results of their efforts: ... > > > 3. AFRINIC providers Fund for Internet Research and Education and other > Internet initiatives across AFRICA. > > > 4. AFRINIC supports Internet Exchange Points across AFRICA > > ...including through CPM section 5.6.4 [4]: ~?~ [...] 5.6.4 PI Assignments to critical Infrastructure 5.6.4.1 AFRINIC will make End-User assignment to critical infrastructure providers of the Internet such as public internet exchange points and core DNS service providers. [...] ~?~ ... > *Does LARUS Limited and its Larus Foundation have such capabilities? or > any IPv$ broker out there.?* > > ...if you asked me! i would have pointed you to a definition of a *network* [5], in Internet routing [6] & LIR contexts... __ [3]: Helpdesk - bit.ly/6deployEN or bit.ly/6deployFR [4]: [5]: " 3a: [...] b: a system of computers and peripherals that are able to communicate with each other " [6]: A-Z Glossary ? APNIC ~?~ Network An international network providing public correspondence services (when used in the formal sense as defined in Section 4.17 of ITU-T Rec. E.164 (05/97)). ~?~ EN - ~?~ 4.13 Network Internationally interconnected physical nodes and operational systems operated and maintained by one or more ROAs to provide public telecommunications services. Private networks are not included in this definition. Note that the use of capital "N" in Networks indicates that this definition applies. ~?~ ROA = Recognized Operating Agency ...i think these definitions allow me to expect at least one ASN to define the boundaries of the network of certain LIRs spanning multiple regions...unless, i'm understanding nothing :'-( Shalom, --sb. > Cheers, > Noah > > -- -- Best Regards ! __ baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]| Subscribe to Mailing List: __ #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|#?Romains15?:33?Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec vous tous! ?#?Amen?!? ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement? ?Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!?(#Psaumes42:2) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From taiwo.oyewande88 at gmail.com Tue Aug 10 12:38:30 2021 From: taiwo.oyewande88 at gmail.com (Taiwo Oye) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 13:38:30 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] How to we move from here. Message-ID: <330182B6-BC22-423A-A98C-FA12A1A975A0@gmail.com> Hello, It is quite amusing that several community members are turning a blind eye on AFRINIC's issues which impedes there ability to maintain a stable and open Internet in the African region. It's difficult to understand the philosophy behind this imperceptible loyalty -the subsequent disruption of networks and connectivity is seen to be some of the worrying effects of this issue - which will certainly have catastrophic consequences on numerous Internet stakeholders. There are people who will argue regarding the legal intricacies of Mauritius' decision, which turns this whole ordeal into a bizarre political maelstrom. I believe the honorable Judge is making, and will continue to make the right decision. In light of all the drama ongoing, I will like to shed light of some incidences that brought us down this part. 1. Former AFRINIC staff, Ernest Byaruhanga, used to sell IP blocks to whoever is willing to pay the highest price. It was seen that he also attempted to exhaust AFRINIC's IPv4 reserves with no regards to the community and the scarcity of those particular internet resources. (https://krebsonsecurity.com/2019/12/the-great-50m-african-ip-address-heist/). With this, a question must be asked: Did Ernest consider Africa's best interest at heart while he was committing such atrocities? It is also said that he used his connections in AFRINIC to change the ownership databases and transfer them into offshore accounts in Kenya and even the United States. He also made a fortune out of these stolen IPv4 resources due to his clients in Ugandan, and even American, shell companies (https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html), 2. AFRINIC has also been consumed by racism when the past CEO Adiel Akplogan, argued there was a race-related conspiracy to take over the organization, in addition to constant bullying and language discrimination between the French-speaking and the English-speaking countries. https://www.theregister.com/2019/12/17/another_afrinic_scandal/ 3. At present, while disciplinary measures have been made, the promise of a new culture made by current CEO, Eddy Kayihura, is nowhere to be found (https://www.theregister.com/2020/02/24/afrinic_new_ceo/).Corruption is still rampant with their questionable financial statements, and with their frozen assets, this proves to be a hindrance to the operations of AFRINIC now and in the future. 4. As for the AFRINIC board ? this is an entire chapter that is almost becoming a joke - , there have been several recent cases of power abuse, which have completely violated the PDP's governing documents and its bottom-up process. Mid-appeals, there were consecutive questionable resignations of two members of the appeal committee, which were followed by the board's decision to suspend the appeals and then revoke the existing Appeal Committee Terms of Reference for replacement, which has resulted in the unprecedented and recent dissolution of the appeal committee. https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/012403.html https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/012340.html https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/013494.html 5. Another recent violation of the PDP's bottom up process was the board's refusal to ratify the policy draft proposal "Board Prerogatives on the PDP" -AFPUB-2020-GEN-004-DRAFT02 ,which has reached the community consensus and was sent to the board for ratification. https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/013602.html 6. Moreover, AFRINIC has issued 450 987 IPv4/24s. It should be noted that the vast majority of the IPv4 issued is coming from South Africa (105511 /24s) and Egypt (94360 /24s). The membership size, which currently stands at 1930 members, clearly demonstrates a total failure of outreach, while the IPv4 still in stock (1 756 888) demonstrates a total failure of IP addresses distribution. Whether AFRINIC doesn?t properly educate its members on how to request space or doesn?t have reasonable prices that encourage the members to request space, both indicate that there is a failure of AFRINIC?s management and its board. https://stats.afrinic.net/ipv4/ https://stats.afrinic.net/ipv4/exhaustion/ipv4_pool 7. Additionally, for your consideration, please take the time to look at this document: https://afrinic.net/finance/2021 There are numerous things that are worth discussing. The HR expenditures is about 3,000,000 USD for a 50-member staff - which gives us the impression that they are paid 60,000 USD a year. According to Mauritian labor statistics, it is seen that an average Mauritian is paid 12,000 USD. It is implied that AFRINIC's salary package is almost 5-times of the Mauritian average. This is seen as living lavishly. With the issues above, obviously Afrinic is in a real mess clouded with various unethical issues. These issues are now becoming a daily affair, affecting the foundation in which the registry was built. The question is how did we get to this and where do u where go from here. Best regards, Taiwo O -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chresgoro at gmail.com Tue Aug 10 14:10:11 2021 From: chresgoro at gmail.com (Christian Orozco) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 22:10:11 +0800 Subject: [Community-Discuss] How to we move from here. In-Reply-To: <330182B6-BC22-423A-A98C-FA12A1A975A0@gmail.com> References: <330182B6-BC22-423A-A98C-FA12A1A975A0@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thank you for putting these facts together. Many people in the community have clamored in the past discussions with the intense exchange of points, some of which expressed inappropriately leading to personal attacks on one another. However, with such a kind of attitude, one can just easily forget the goal: to establish quality and trustable IP handling so that millions of users will be able to maximize the internet resources. If there is a direct failure in IP distribution ? if there is corruption and abuse of power, it is very easy to tell that AFRINIC is deviating from the goal mentioned. Indeed, no organization is perfect, but if anyone here is not concerned with the ethical issues that have been brought to the table, it must be a good time to recalibrate and prepare to face the truth. A lot more people must understand that taking sides with AFRINIC is *not* tantamount to supporting Africa's internet. There are major concerns that have to be settled first; and given the registry's current situation, there are more opportunities that can be explored to support the continent's connectivity. Regards, Christian On Tue, Aug 10, 2021 at 8:40 PM Taiwo Oye wrote: > > Hello, > > > > It is quite amusing that several community members are turning a blind eye > on AFRINIC's issues which impedes there ability to maintain a stable and > open Internet in the African region. It's difficult to understand the > philosophy behind this imperceptible loyalty -the subsequent disruption of > networks and connectivity is seen to be some of the worrying effects of > this issue - which will certainly have catastrophic consequences on > numerous Internet stakeholders. > > > > There are people who will argue regarding the legal intricacies of > Mauritius' decision, which turns this whole ordeal into a bizarre political > maelstrom. I believe the honorable Judge is making, and will continue to > make the right decision. In light of all the drama ongoing, I will like to > shed light of some incidences that brought us down this part. > > > > 1. Former AFRINIC staff, Ernest Byaruhanga, used to sell IP blocks to > whoever is willing to pay the highest price. It was seen that he also > attempted to exhaust AFRINIC's IPv4 reserves with no regards to the > community and the scarcity of those particular internet resources. > > > > *(https://krebsonsecurity.com/2019/12/the-great-50m-african-ip-address-heist/ > ).* > > > > With this, a question must be asked: Did Ernest consider Africa's best > interest at heart while he was committing such atrocities? It is also > said that he used his connections in AFRINIC to change the ownership > databases and transfer them into offshore accounts in Kenya and even the > United States. He also made a fortune out of these stolen IPv4 resources > due to his clients in Ugandan, and even American, shell companies > > *(https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html > ),* > > > > > 2. AFRINIC has also been consumed by racism when the past CEO Adiel > Akplogan, argued there was a race-related conspiracy to take over the > organization, in addition to constant bullying and language discrimination > between the French-speaking and the English-speaking countries. > > > > *https://www.theregister.com/2019/12/17/another_afrinic_scandal/ > * > > > > 3. At present, while disciplinary measures have been made, the promise of > a new culture made by current CEO, Eddy Kayihura, is nowhere to be found *(https://www.theregister.com/2020/02/24/afrinic_new_ceo/ > )*.Corruption is > still rampant with their questionable financial statements, and with their > frozen assets, this proves to be a hindrance to the operations of AFRINIC > now and in the future. > > > > 4. As for the AFRINIC board ? this is an entire chapter that is almost > becoming a joke - , there have been several recent cases of power abuse, > which have completely violated the PDP's governing documents and its > bottom-up process. Mid-appeals, there were consecutive questionable > resignations of two members of the appeal committee, which were followed by > the board's decision to suspend the appeals and then revoke the existing > Appeal Committee Terms of Reference for replacement, which has resulted in > the unprecedented and recent dissolution of the appeal committee. > > > > *https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/012403.html > * > > > > *https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/012340.html > * > > > > *https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/013494.html > * > > > > 5. Another recent violation of the PDP's bottom up process was the board's > refusal to ratify the policy draft proposal "Board Prerogatives on the > PDP" -AFPUB-2020-GEN-004-DRAFT02 ,which has reached the community > consensus and was sent to the board for ratification. > > > > *https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/013602.html > * > > > > 6. Moreover, AFRINIC has issued 450 987 IPv4/24s. It should be noted that > the vast majority of the IPv4 issued is coming from South Africa (105511 > /24s) and Egypt (94360 /24s). The membership size, which currently stands > at 1930 members, clearly demonstrates a total failure of outreach, while > the IPv4 still in stock (1 756 888) demonstrates a total failure of IP > addresses distribution. > > > > Whether AFRINIC doesn?t properly educate its members on how to request > space or doesn?t have reasonable prices that encourage the members to > request space, both indicate that there is a failure of AFRINIC?s > management and its board. > > > > *https://stats.afrinic.net/ipv4/ * > > > > *https://stats.afrinic.net/ipv4/exhaustion/ipv4_pool > * > > > > 7. Additionally, for your consideration, please take the time to look at > this document: > > > > *https://afrinic.net/finance/2021 * > > > > There are numerous things that are worth discussing. The HR expenditures > is about 3,000,000 USD for a 50-member staff - which gives us the > impression that they are paid 60,000 USD a year. According to Mauritian > labor statistics, it is seen that an average Mauritian is paid 12,000 USD. > It is implied that AFRINIC's salary package is almost 5-times of the > Mauritian average. This is seen as living lavishly. > > > > With the issues above, obviously Afrinic is in a real mess clouded with > various unethical issues. These issues are now becoming a daily affair, > affecting the foundation in which the registry was built. > > > > The question is how did we get to this and where do u where go from here. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Taiwo O > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From b.sowers154 at gmail.com Tue Aug 10 16:31:27 2021 From: b.sowers154 at gmail.com (Brian Sowers) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 12:31:27 -0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] How to we move from here. Message-ID: <1A994420-0697-4967-9137-5EBFC6FBEDBF@gmail.com> Very eloquently said. In short, AFRINIC bungles or botches every decision/policy. From Ernest to this present-day litigation with Cloud, it is evident AFRINIC does not have Africa?s best internet interests at heart. Rather, AFRINIC is more so interested in power and control; it is self-serving. I believe the few standing in defense of AFRINIC are doing more than giving a blind eye to AFRINIC?s corrupted operations. They are serving their own temporary self-interest at the great cost of long lasting repercussions for Africa. There is otherwise no explanation. The answer to your question, how do we move from here, is evident. AFRINIC can no longer be trusted for the development and stability of the internet in Africa. In fact, it could never be trusted. Either a *new* ?bottom-up? approach in that it clears the personnel in its entirety at the roots at AFRINIC with new trusted personnel is to be implemented, or 2. that AFRINIC is disbanded altogether and it?s resources allocated to another RIR, such as RIPE. Both options are in Africa?s best interest. -Brian From b.sowers154 at gmail.com Tue Aug 10 16:31:27 2021 From: b.sowers154 at gmail.com (Brian Sowers) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 12:31:27 -0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] How to we move from here. Message-ID: <1A994420-0697-4967-9137-5EBFC6FBEDBF@gmail.com> Very eloquently said. In short, AFRINIC bungles or botches every decision/policy. From Ernest to this present-day litigation with Cloud, it is evident AFRINIC does not have Africa?s best internet interests at heart. Rather, AFRINIC is more so interested in power and control; it is self-serving. I believe the few standing in defense of AFRINIC are doing more than giving a blind eye to AFRINIC?s corrupted operations. They are serving their own temporary self-interest at the great cost of long lasting repercussions for Africa. There is otherwise no explanation. The answer to your question, how do we move from here, is evident. AFRINIC can no longer be trusted for the development and stability of the internet in Africa. In fact, it could never be trusted. Either a *new* ?bottom-up? approach in that it clears the personnel in its entirety at the roots at AFRINIC with new trusted personnel is to be implemented, or 2. that AFRINIC is disbanded altogether and it?s resources allocated to another RIR, such as RIPE. Both options are in Africa?s best interest. -Brian From b.sowers154 at gmail.com Tue Aug 10 16:31:27 2021 From: b.sowers154 at gmail.com (Brian Sowers) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 12:31:27 -0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] How to we move from here. Message-ID: <1A994420-0697-4967-9137-5EBFC6FBEDBF@gmail.com> Very eloquently said. In short, AFRINIC bungles or botches every decision/policy. From Ernest to this present-day litigation with Cloud, it is evident AFRINIC does not have Africa?s best internet interests at heart. Rather, AFRINIC is more so interested in power and control; it is self-serving. I believe the few standing in defense of AFRINIC are doing more than giving a blind eye to AFRINIC?s corrupted operations. They are serving their own temporary self-interest at the great cost of long lasting repercussions for Africa. There is otherwise no explanation. The answer to your question, how do we move from here, is evident. AFRINIC can no longer be trusted for the development and stability of the internet in Africa. In fact, it could never be trusted. Either a *new* ?bottom-up? approach in that it clears the personnel in its entirety at the roots at AFRINIC with new trusted personnel is to be implemented, or 2. that AFRINIC is disbanded altogether and it?s resources allocated to another RIR, such as RIPE. Both options are in Africa?s best interest. -Brian From rfg at tristatelogic.com Tue Aug 10 16:59:23 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 09:59:23 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Concerns_Grow_As_AFRINIC=E2=80=99s_?= =?utf-8?q?Funds_Are_Frozen_Over_IPv4_Dispute?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <29691.1628614763@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In message , Noah wrote: >I thought I should share this interesting article by Doug Madory, Director >of Internet Analysis at Kentik. >... >a Lightning Talk at LACNIC in 2018, Etienne Sharp blamed "ghost companies" >for spiriting into Latin America, setting up virtual offices to obtain >precious IPv4 address space at little cost, and then proceeding to use the >address space outside the LACNIC region. Russian security company >DDoS-Guard (aka Dancom) was one of those ghost companies in Etienne's >presentation, and earlier this year, LACNIC revoked its right to use the >address space it obtained from Belize.* As I have informed Doug Madory, the above passage is not entirely accurate, because although LACNIC "investigated" the LACNIC IPv4 assignments it had made to DDoS-Guard, LACNIC officials ultimately made the decision NOT to revoke those assignments. (Anyone interested in the rationale for that decision is encouraged to contact LACNIC directly for further information.) Regards, rfg From gregoire.ehoumi at yahoo.fr Tue Aug 10 17:59:44 2021 From: gregoire.ehoumi at yahoo.fr (Gregoire EHOUMI) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 13:59:44 -0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Share About Cloud Innovation Ltd and their business In-Reply-To: <3FB420FE-911E-4972-9B12-511EB6B9D7AB@arin.net> References: <31299.1627244609@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <745F630B-A186-481C-9704-BCA2A0869089@delong.com> <418e1240-bbaa-b658-43aa-dfd75fc769db@geier.ne.tz> <014477A4-1987-43FB-B8A8-A70B746B3A5A@delong.com> <3FB420FE-911E-4972-9B12-511EB6B9D7AB@arin.net> Message-ID: Hello, It looks like Owen and Cloud Innovation have decided to not respond to John on this trivial question. This is an important discussion point as AFRINIC has always been in need-based allocation mode. Silence from a very vocal person is also an answer. Thanks John for asking. ? Gregoire > On Aug 8, 2021, at 9:21 AM, John Curran wrote: > > On 6 Aug 2021, at 6:05 AM, John Curran > wrote: >> >> On 5 Aug 2021, at 6:04 PM, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss > wrote: >>> ... >>> ALL LIRs lease INRs. Many do it in relation to also providing >>> connectivity services. Cloud Innovation also does it in relation >>> to providing connectivity services in some (but not all) cases. >>> >>> ... We (Cloud Innovation) have customers just like any other LIR. >>> >>> We (Cloud Innovation) assign addresses to them for use on internet >>> connected hosts, just like any other LIR. The only distinction between >>> us (Cloud Innovation) and most other LIRs is that we will do so regardless >>> of whether we are the provider of that connectivity or not. >> >> Owen - >> >> Thanks for the above ? I believe it is helpful in clarifying how the IP address blocks are being used today. For my understanding, is this same purpose for which they were originally requested and issued? > > Owen - > > You have posted dozens of messages to this list of rationale asserting Cloud Innovation?s legitimacy in number resource matters, even going so face as observing that they are "a model citizen of the IP number resource using community? and a party with ?meticulous? record keeping. You have also taken to responding to many messages on this list detailing their IP number resource utilization as proper, and have no issue identifying as ?We (Cloud Innovation)? in those responses. > > Surely you could do the AFRINIC community the courtesy of an answer to a single question about their number resource utilization ? i.e. a yes/no question of fact regarding the number resources that Cloud Innovation obtained from AFRINIC and that now appear subject to dispute with AFRINIC? (While I am sure that many have found your many assertions enlightening, it is often helpful to have clear statements of fact in order keep discussions well-informed and anchored to reality.) > > Again, for clarity ? ?Is Cloud Innovation?s usage today of the number resources for the same purpose for which they were originally requested and issued?? This simple question is certainly something that the community has a reasonable right to know ? and should be trivial to answer given your exhaustive knowledge demonstrated in correspondence already on the matter. > > Thanks in advance! > /John > > John Curran > President and CEO > American Registry for Internet Numbers > > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ibeanusielvis at gmail.com Tue Aug 10 18:54:46 2021 From: ibeanusielvis at gmail.com (Ibeanusi Elvis) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2021 03:54:46 +0900 Subject: [Community-Discuss] How to we move from here. In-Reply-To: <1A994420-0697-4967-9137-5EBFC6FBEDBF@gmail.com> References: <1A994420-0697-4967-9137-5EBFC6FBEDBF@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello all, Speaking of history of looting AFRINIC, with the detailed and well elucidated explanation of looting in the AFRINIC organization, it clearly shows that this catastrophic problem and holes that AFRINIC is in now didn?t just manufacture or start today, this has been a long aged consistent issue that has been going even as the position of power was switched with intention of making some progress but it seem like the organization is still where it?s at with the corruption and all. As all can see, we (AFRINIC) besides the financial and frozen account issue that we have still ongoing and awaiting the judge?s decision, there are other things that needs to be handled to salvage this organization. Issues from mismanagement or funds (over payments), the race-related conspiracy, the violation of the transparency and the bottom-up process which was amongst the core principles of this organization. Some of the community members tend to be more focused on this Lu guy, while there?s a lot in our plate to handle. Let?s attack every issue based on the level of its priority. Best, Elvis On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 1:34 Brian Sowers wrote: > Very eloquently said. In short, AFRINIC bungles or botches every > decision/policy. From Ernest to this present-day litigation with Cloud, it > is evident AFRINIC does not have Africa?s best internet interests at heart. > Rather, AFRINIC is more so interested in power and control; it is > self-serving. I believe the few standing in defense of AFRINIC are doing > more than giving a blind eye to AFRINIC?s corrupted operations. They are > serving their own temporary self-interest at the great cost of long lasting > repercussions for Africa. There is otherwise no explanation. > > The answer to your question, how do we move from here, is evident. AFRINIC > can no longer be trusted for the development and stability of the internet > in Africa. In fact, it could never be trusted. Either a *new* ?bottom-up? > approach in that it clears the personnel in its entirety at the roots at > AFRINIC with new trusted personnel is to be implemented, or 2. that AFRINIC > is disbanded altogether and it?s resources allocated to another RIR, such > as RIPE. Both options are in Africa?s best interest. > > > -Brian > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ubah.tonyiyke at gmail.com Wed Aug 11 03:28:33 2021 From: ubah.tonyiyke at gmail.com (Anthony Ubah) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2021 23:28:33 -0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] How to we move from here. In-Reply-To: <330182B6-BC22-423A-A98C-FA12A1A975A0@gmail.com> References: <330182B6-BC22-423A-A98C-FA12A1A975A0@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello Taiwo, Quite the research you've done to out this write-up together. An interesting read. Initially, I was quite confused about the entirety of it, however there are glaring pointer that raise a question or two. Indeed, it does turn the top soil, and hopefully the right seeds will grow. Importantly, amidst the chaos and finger pointing in the last few weeks, it's important to forge a way forward for Afrinic(post court proceedings) without glorifying the norm, albeit imperfect. It shouldn't be business as usual. Thanks, Anthony -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sfolayan at gmail.com Wed Aug 11 07:08:44 2021 From: sfolayan at gmail.com (Sunday Folayan) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2021 08:08:44 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Share About Cloud Innovation Ltd and their business In-Reply-To: <3FB420FE-911E-4972-9B12-511EB6B9D7AB@arin.net> References: <31299.1627244609@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <745F630B-A186-481C-9704-BCA2A0869089@delong.com> <418e1240-bbaa-b658-43aa-dfd75fc769db@geier.ne.tz> <014477A4-1987-43FB-B8A8-A70B746B3A5A@delong.com> <3FB420FE-911E-4972-9B12-511EB6B9D7AB@arin.net> Message-ID: This question from John deserves an answer. It will help the community. Maybe someone from Cloud Innovation should nudge Owen just in case he is the only one with the answer. - Sunday. On Sun, Aug 8, 2021, 2:25 PM John Curran wrote: > On 6 Aug 2021, at 6:05 AM, John Curran wrote: > > > On 5 Aug 2021, at 6:04 PM, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss < > community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > > ... > ALL LIRs lease INRs. Many do it in relation to also providing > connectivity services. Cloud Innovation also does it in relation > to providing connectivity services in some (but not all) cases. > > ... We (Cloud Innovation) have customers just like any other LIR. > > We (Cloud Innovation) assign addresses to them for use on internet > connected hosts, just like any other LIR. The only distinction between > us (Cloud Innovation) and most other LIRs is that we will do so regardless > of whether we are the provider of that connectivity or not. > > > Owen - > > Thanks for the above ? I believe it is helpful in clarifying how the IP > address blocks are being used today. For my understanding, is this same > purpose for which they were originally requested and issued? > > > Owen - > > You have posted dozens of messages to this list of rationale asserting > Cloud Innovation?s legitimacy in number resource matters, even going so > face as observing that they are "a model citizen of the IP number resource > using community? and a party with ?meticulous? record keeping. You have > also taken to responding to many messages on this list detailing their IP > number resource utilization as proper, and have no issue identifying as ?We > (Cloud Innovation)? in those responses. > > Surely you could do the AFRINIC community the courtesy of an answer to a > single question about their number resource utilization ? i.e. a yes/no > question of fact regarding the number resources that Cloud Innovation > obtained from AFRINIC and that now appear subject to dispute with AFRINIC? > (While I am sure that many have found your many assertions enlightening, > it is often helpful to have clear statements of fact in order keep > discussions well-informed and anchored to reality.) > > Again, for clarity ? ?Is Cloud Innovation?s usage today of the number > resources for the same purpose for which they were originally requested and > issued?? This simple question is certainly something that the community > has a reasonable right to know ? and should be trivial to answer given your > exhaustive knowledge demonstrated in correspondence already on the matter. > > Thanks in advance! > /John > > John Curran > President and CEO > American Registry for Internet Numbers > > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.wollner at africaoncloud.net Wed Aug 11 07:15:54 2021 From: paul.wollner at africaoncloud.net (Paul Wollner) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2021 09:15:54 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Joint statement on the current AFRINIC situation from the African Regional RENs In-Reply-To: <20210803094005.0BD194162B66@smtp3.rnu.tn> References: <20210803094005.0BD194162B66@smtp3.rnu.tn> Message-ID: <17b34114c2f.ea4cd29e417185.1413918089618604919@africaoncloud.net> I am curious as to why AFRINIC is silent when comes to enforcing CoC on its vice chairman of the board? Why has the board member not resigned after such an improper public comment? Regards Paul ---- On Tue, 03 Aug 2021 11:41:29 +0200 habib.youssef via Members-Discuss wrote ---- Thanks Boubakar, Yousef and Matthews for your support. What Lu Heng and company have started to do since several years to go is criminal by all standards. I hope Afrinic will get out stronger from crisis. --Habib. Sent from my Galaxy -------- Original message -------- From: Boubakar Barry Date: 03/08/2021 08:49 (GMT+01:00) To: Members Discuss Subject: [members-discuss] Joint statement on the current AFRINIC situation from the African Regional RENs Dear All, On behalf of the three African regional RENs, please find attached our joint statement on the current situation at AFRINIC. It says: --- ASREN, UbuntuNet Alliance and WACREN are the regional research and education networks interconnecting national research and education networks (NRENs) across the continent (Northern Africa, Eastern and Southern Africa, West and Central Africa). African RENs provide connectivity and other services to millions of end users in the education and research community (students, faculty, researchers, administrators, etc.), and INRs are critical for the delivery of these services. The REN community is following with interest but also with concern the heated debate on the current lawsuit against AFRINIC that led to the freezing of its bank accounts, thus jeopardizing its operations. Many years ago, members of the REN community expressed concerns about a risk for AFRINIC, when a resource member publicly said that AFRINIC will face bankruptcy if it dares consider reclaiming resources that many members thought were assigned wrongly, or at least were not used as initially indicated. It was, at that time, recommended to address this issue seriously. And here we are. Anyway: ?the current situation is very serious and our community and the friends of the African Internet community should stand together and fight against those who want to destroy and bury AFRINIC. Yes, there are things to improve at AFRINIC. But in this critical situation, we urge all to stand by and support the Board and Management of our organization. We say no to any attempt to move the management of Internet number resources attributed to Africa to any other organization. Therefore, we, as representatives of the African REN community, express our full support to AFRINIC Board and Management and invite all Africans and friends of Africa to do the same. ? Signed: For ASREN (http://www.asrenorg.net): Dr. Yousef Torman, Co-MD For Ubuntunet Alliance (http://www.ubuntunet.net): Dr. Matthews Mtumbuka, CEO For WACREN (http://www.wacren.net): Dr. Boubakar Barry, CEO ________________________________________________________________ Best wishes, Boubakar Barry -- CEO/Directeur G?n?ral, WACREN Web: http://www.wacren.net ***Keep it simple, as simple as possible, but not simpler. (A. Einstein)*** _______________________________________________ Members-Discuss mailing list Members-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tespok at tespok.co.ke Wed Aug 11 12:24:56 2021 From: tespok at tespok.co.ke (Fiona Asonga) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2021 15:24:56 +0300 (EAT) Subject: [Community-Discuss] TESPOK_KENYA STATEMENT ON AFRINIC In-Reply-To: <1867577821.209132.1628684023031.JavaMail.zimbra@tespok.co.ke> Message-ID: <155562145.209537.1628684696659.JavaMail.zimbra@tespok.co.ke> Dear All TESPOK- Technology Service Providers Of Kenya has issued the following statement regarding the current situation at AFRINIC. It reads: 10 th August 2021 STATEMENT OF TECHNOLOGY SERVICE PROVIDERS OF KENYA (TESPOK) ON AFRINIC Technology Service Providers of Kenya (TESPOK) is a professional non- profit organization representing interests of Technology Service Providers in Kenya and it runs the Kenya Internet Exchange Point. TESPOK and its 80+ members are dependent on the internet resources acquired as members of AFRINIC, thus AFRINIC plays a crucial role as the sole delegated administrator of critical Internet resources for the African region as Kenya internet users rely on AFRINIC to provide and efficiently distribute internet number resources, support internet technology usage to be able to connect to the Internet and to conduct business online . Afrinic?s Chief Executive Officer?s communication to members regarding the dispute between AFRINIC and Cloud Innovation Limited has left TESPOK and its membership concerned. The dispute has led to AFRINICS accounts being frozen thus hindering AFRINIC?s ability to operate and perform its duties. TESPOK recognizes that AFRINIC plays an important role in running critical services for the global internet thus we at TESPOK would like to support AFRINIC meet its operational obligations until the dispute is resolved. We thank the AFRINIC CEO, Eddy Kayihura for the constant updates and reassurance he has provided members and we would like to humbly appeal to AFRINIC?s Board of Directors and Senior Management to focus on its core mandate and ensure the stability of Africa?s internet ecosystem. TESPOK hopes that AFRINIC will do everything within its ability to ensure business continuity and that a swift amicable solution to the dispute shall be reached. ENDS... About TESPOK Telecommunications Service Providers Association of Kenya (TESPOK) is a professional, non-profit organization representing the interests of telecommunication service providers in Kenya. Established in 1999, the strength of the Association rests on its ability to be truly representative of the Kenyan industry as a whole. The association has brought the issues affecting its members into the limelight creating awareness among policy makers and the general public as well as producing several concrete outcomes. More information is available at: https://www.tespok.co.ke/?p=14010 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mail_signature-01.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 66589 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: TESPOK statement on AFRINIC.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 191520 bytes Desc: not available URL: From comms at afrinic.net Wed Aug 11 14:06:42 2021 From: comms at afrinic.net (AFRINIC Communication) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2021 18:06:42 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Joint statement on the current AFRINIC situation from the African Regional RENs In-Reply-To: <17b34114c2f.ea4cd29e417185.1413918089618604919@africaoncloud.net> References: <20210803094005.0BD194162B66@smtp3.rnu.tn> <17b34114c2f.ea4cd29e417185.1413918089618604919@africaoncloud.net> Message-ID: <8B8039F3-60A0-44FF-8738-8D3587F89601@afrinic.net> Mr Wollner, The Code of Conduct was not applied as Mr. Habib publicly apologised to the mailing list. Regards, AFRINIC Communications > On 11 Aug 2021, at 11:15, Paul Wollner wrote: > > I am curious as to why AFRINIC is silent when comes to enforcing CoC on its vice chairman of the board? Why has the board member not resigned after such an improper public comment? > > Regards > Paul > > > ---- On Tue, 03 Aug 2021 11:41:29 +0200 habib.youssef via Members-Discuss wrote ---- > > Thanks Boubakar, Yousef and Matthews for your support. > What Lu Heng and company have started to do since several years to go is criminal by all standards. > I hope Afrinic will get out stronger from crisis. > --Habib. > > > > Sent from my Galaxy > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Boubakar Barry > > Date: 03/08/2021 08:49 (GMT+01:00) > To: Members Discuss > > Subject: [members-discuss] Joint statement on the current AFRINIC situation from the African Regional RENs > > Dear All, > > On behalf of the three African regional RENs, please find attached our joint statement on the current situation at AFRINIC. > > It says: > --- > ASREN, UbuntuNet Alliance and WACREN are the regional research and education networks interconnecting national research and education networks (NRENs) across the continent (Northern Africa, Eastern and Southern Africa, West and Central Africa). > African RENs provide connectivity and other services to millions of end users in the education and research community (students, faculty, researchers, administrators, etc.), and INRs are critical for the delivery of these services. > The REN community is following with interest but also with concern the heated debate on the current lawsuit against AFRINIC that led to the freezing of its bank accounts, thus jeopardizing its operations. > Many years ago, members of the REN community expressed concerns about a risk for AFRINIC, when a resource member publicly said that AFRINIC will face bankruptcy if it dares consider reclaiming resources that many members thought were assigned wrongly, or at least were not used as initially indicated. It was, at that time, recommended to address this issue seriously. > And here we are. > Anyway: the current situation is very serious and our community and the friends of the African Internet community should stand together and fight against those who want to destroy and bury AFRINIC. > Yes, there are things to improve at AFRINIC. But in this critical situation, we urge all to stand by and support the Board and Management of our organization. > We say no to any attempt to move the management of Internet number resources attributed to Africa to any other organization. > Therefore, we, as representatives of the African REN community, express our full support to AFRINIC Board and Management and invite all Africans and friends of Africa to do the same. > > Signed: > For ASREN (www.asrenorg.net ): Dr. Yousef Torman, Co-MD > > For Ubuntunet Alliance (www.ubuntunet.net ): Dr. Matthews Mtumbuka, CEO > > For WACREN (www.wacren.net ): Dr. Boubakar Barry, CEO > > ________________________________________________________________ > > Best wishes, > > Boubakar Barry > -- > CEO/Directeur G?n?ral, WACREN > Web: http://www.wacren.net > ***Keep it simple, as simple as possible, but not simpler. (A. Einstein)*** > > _______________________________________________ > Members-Discuss mailing list > Members-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Wed Aug 11 14:52:52 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2021 17:52:52 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] TESPOK_KENYA STATEMENT ON AFRINIC In-Reply-To: <155562145.209537.1628684696659.JavaMail.zimbra@tespok.co.ke> References: <1867577821.209132.1628684023031.JavaMail.zimbra@tespok.co.ke> <155562145.209537.1628684696659.JavaMail.zimbra@tespok.co.ke> Message-ID: Hi Fiona, Thank you so much for the statement from the Technology Service Providers of Kenya (*TESPOK*) on AFRINIC. Cheers, *./noah* neo - network engineering and operations On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 3:33 PM Fiona Asonga wrote: > Dear All > > TESPOK- Technology Service Providers Of Kenya has issued the following > statement regarding the current situation at AFRINIC. > > It reads: > > > 10th August 2021 > > > > *STATEMENT OF TECHNOLOGY SERVICE PROVIDERS OF KENYA (TESPOK) ON AFRINIC* > > > > Technology Service Providers of Kenya (TESPOK) is a professional non- > profit organization representing interests of Technology Service Providers > in Kenya and it runs the Kenya Internet Exchange Point. > > > > TESPOK and its 80+ members are dependent on the internet resources > acquired as members of AFRINIC, thus AFRINIC plays a crucial role as the > sole delegated administrator of critical Internet resources for the African > region as Kenya internet users rely on AFRINIC to provide and efficiently > distribute internet number resources, support internet technology usage to > be able to connect to the Internet and to conduct business online. > > > > Afrinic?s Chief Executive Officer?s communication to members regarding the > dispute between AFRINIC and Cloud Innovation Limited has left TESPOK and > its membership concerned. The dispute has led to AFRINICS accounts being > frozen thus hindering AFRINIC?s ability to operate and perform its duties. > > > > TESPOK recognizes that AFRINIC plays an important role in running critical > services for the global internet thus we at TESPOK would like to support > AFRINIC meet its operational obligations until the dispute is resolved. > > > > We thank the AFRINIC CEO, Eddy Kayihura for the constant updates and > reassurance he has provided members and we would like to humbly appeal to > AFRINIC?s Board of Directors and Senior Management to focus on its core > mandate and ensure the stability of Africa?s internet ecosystem. > > > > TESPOK hopes that AFRINIC will do everything within its ability to ensure > business continuity and that a swift amicable solution to the dispute shall > be reached. > > > > *ENDS...* > > *About TESPOK * > > *Telecommunications Service Providers Association of Kenya (TESPOK) is a > professional, non-profit organization representing the interests of > telecommunication service providers in Kenya. Established in 1999, the > strength of the Association rests on its ability to be truly representative > of the Kenyan industry as a whole. The association has brought the issues > affecting its members into the limelight creating awareness among policy > makers and the general public as well as producing several concrete > outcomes. **More information is available > at: https://www.tespok.co.ke/?p=14010 * > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mail_signature-01.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 66589 bytes Desc: not available URL: From abscoco at gmail.com Wed Aug 11 21:55:50 2021 From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain Baya) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2021 22:55:50 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] TESPOK_KENYA STATEMENT ON AFRINIC In-Reply-To: <155562145.209537.1628684696659.JavaMail.zimbra@tespok.co.ke> References: <1867577821.209132.1628684023031.JavaMail.zimbra@tespok.co.ke> <155562145.209537.1628684696659.JavaMail.zimbra@tespok.co.ke> Message-ID: Dear AfriNIC's Community, Le mercredi 11 ao?t 2021, Fiona Asonga a ?crit : > Dear All > > Hi Fiona, ...i thank you and all the valuable resource members from TESPOK, for this great support. TESPOK- Technology Service Providers Of Kenya has issued the following > statement regarding the current situation at AFRINIC. > > That's a really appreciated kind of response, i personally encourage other resource members to endorse it...anyone should understand the risk attached to the situation in which only few (one?) resource member(s?) have jeopardized AfriNIC, including all those who respect the RSA they have signed prior to receiving some INRs; to use within the AfriNIC service region...in compliance with the CPM. ...also, given the brutality, of that adverse action, i ask myself if the appropriate response is not to launch a joint similar action against that adversary LIR? it seems to be easy to calculate the actual value of the INRs holding by all the resource members whose businesses could be potentially affected by the freeze of AfriNIC's bank accounts. ...maybe TESPOK should try to coordinate with the other potentially affected resource members (~1900)? also note that: that "INRs War" has been started and the other camp is actively recruiting, publicly through their QG web site at NRA...maybe gathering the resource members might be a good start :-/ The risk is shared with the other RIRs which form a unique Internet Numbers Registry System (INRS) (RFC7020); now under the same attack... Thanks once more. Shalom, --sb. > It reads: > > > 10th August 2021 > > > > *STATEMENT OF TECHNOLOGY SERVICE PROVIDERS OF KENYA (TESPOK) ON AFRINIC* > > > > Technology Service Providers of Kenya (TESPOK) is a professional non- > profit organization representing interests of Technology Service Providers > in Kenya and it runs the Kenya Internet Exchange Point. > > > > TESPOK and its 80+ members are dependent on the internet resources > acquired as members of AFRINIC, thus AFRINIC plays a crucial role as the > sole delegated administrator of critical Internet resources for the African > region as Kenya internet users rely on AFRINIC to provide and efficiently > distribute internet number resources, support internet technology usage to > be able to connect to the Internet and to conduct business online. > > > > Afrinic?s Chief Executive Officer?s communication to members regarding the > dispute between AFRINIC and Cloud Innovation Limited has left TESPOK and > its membership concerned. The dispute has led to AFRINICS accounts being > frozen thus hindering AFRINIC?s ability to operate and perform its duties. > > > > TESPOK recognizes that AFRINIC plays an important role in running critical > services for the global internet thus we at TESPOK would like to support > AFRINIC meet its operational obligations until the dispute is resolved. > > > > We thank the AFRINIC CEO, Eddy Kayihura for the constant updates and > reassurance he has provided members and we would like to humbly appeal to > AFRINIC?s Board of Directors and Senior Management to focus on its core > mandate and ensure the stability of Africa?s internet ecosystem. > > > > TESPOK hopes that AFRINIC will do everything within its ability to ensure > business continuity and that a swift amicable solution to the dispute shall > be reached. > > > > *ENDS...* > > *About TESPOK * > > *Telecommunications Service Providers Association of Kenya (TESPOK) is a > professional, non-profit organization representing the interests of > telecommunication service providers in Kenya. Established in 1999, the > strength of the Association rests on its ability to be truly representative > of the Kenyan industry as a whole. The association has brought the issues > affecting its members into the limelight creating awareness among policy > makers and the general public as well as producing several concrete > outcomes. **More information is available > at: https://www.tespok.co.ke/?p=14010 * > > > > > > -- -- Best Regards ! __ baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]| Subscribe to Mailing List: __ #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|#?Romains15?:33?Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec vous tous! ?#?Amen?!? ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement? ?Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!?(#Psaumes42:2) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mail_signature-01.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 66589 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mirriamlauren at yahoo.com Wed Aug 11 22:54:40 2021 From: mirriamlauren at yahoo.com (Mirriam) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2021 22:54:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Community-Discuss] Share About Cloud Innovation Ltd and their business In-Reply-To: References: <75406.1628032024@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: <1289177534.1007904.1628722480465@mail.yahoo.com> Hello, (*)https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/2014-minutes/20141123-minutes.pdf It appears that these board meetings *(in the link above) were the ones where the chair was forced to step down to become vice-chair for Sunday to become Chair? after CEO resignation and departure were announced. And now, here we are, awaiting explanations for the pending and hanging questions! Mirriam. Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Fri, Aug 6, 2021 at 10:55 AM, Arnaud AMELINA wrote: _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Thu Aug 12 05:53:58 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2021 22:53:58 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] TESPOK_KENYA STATEMENT ON AFRINIC In-Reply-To: References: <1867577821.209132.1628684023031.JavaMail.zimbra@tespok.co.ke> <155562145.209537.1628684696659.JavaMail.zimbra@tespok.co.ke> Message-ID: Yes, I sincerely hope the board will take the advice contained therein. Owen > On Aug 11, 2021, at 07:52 , Noah wrote: > > Hi Fiona, > > Thank you so much for the statement from the Technology Service Providers of Kenya (TESPOK) on AFRINIC. > > Cheers, > ./noah > neo - network engineering and operations > > > On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 3:33 PM Fiona Asonga > wrote: > Dear All > > TESPOK- Technology Service Providers Of Kenya has issued the following statement regarding the current situation at AFRINIC. > > It reads: > > > 10th August 2021 > > STATEMENT OF TECHNOLOGY SERVICE PROVIDERS OF KENYA (TESPOK) ON AFRINIC > > Technology Service Providers of Kenya (TESPOK) is a professional non- profit organization representing interests of Technology Service Providers in Kenya and it runs the Kenya Internet Exchange Point. > > TESPOK and its 80+ members are dependent on the internet resources acquired as members of AFRINIC, thus AFRINIC plays a crucial role as the sole delegated administrator of critical Internet resources for the African region as Kenya internet users rely on AFRINIC to provide and efficiently distribute internet number resources, support internet technology usage to be able to connect to the Internet and to conduct business online. > > Afrinic?s Chief Executive Officer?s communication to members regarding the dispute between AFRINIC and Cloud Innovation Limited has left TESPOK and its membership concerned. The dispute has led to AFRINICS accounts being frozen thus hindering AFRINIC?s ability to operate and perform its duties. > > TESPOK recognizes that AFRINIC plays an important role in running critical services for the global internet thus we at TESPOK would like to support AFRINIC meet its operational obligations until the dispute is resolved. > > We thank the AFRINIC CEO, Eddy Kayihura for the constant updates and reassurance he has provided members and we would like to humbly appeal to AFRINIC?s Board of Directors and Senior Management to focus on its core mandate and ensure the stability of Africa?s internet ecosystem. > > TESPOK hopes that AFRINIC will do everything within its ability to ensure business continuity and that a swift amicable solution to the dispute shall be reached. > > ENDS... > About TESPOK > Telecommunications Service Providers Association of Kenya (TESPOK) is a professional, non-profit organization representing the interests of telecommunication service providers in Kenya. Established in 1999, the strength of the Association rests on its ability to be truly representative of the Kenyan industry as a whole. The association has brought the issues affecting its members into the limelight creating awareness among policy makers and the general public as well as producing several concrete outcomes. More information is available at: https://www.tespok.co.ke/?p=14010 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rfg at tristatelogic.com Thu Aug 12 06:01:25 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2021 23:01:25 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gems from the Archives Message-ID: <35989.1628748085@segfault.tristatelogic.com> I myself only took an interest in AFRINIC starting about 2016. I have been hunting down snoweshoe spammeers since about 2004, but mostly, and until recently, those tended to stay within either ARIN or RIPE IP space, so I wasn't really motivated to learn much about the history of AFRINIC until 2016, when I noticed some things relating to the routing of IP space that concerned me. Prior to that, I knew essentially zero about AFRINIC or about the people and discussion that took place here prior to that (i.e. prior to 2016). More recently of course, I have had some reason to take an interest, as I believe you all know. Having not been around or on any of the AFRINIC mailing lists before 2016, I am now finding it a facinating exercise to go back and look at some of the mailing list archives (e.g. for the RPD list) prior to 2016. I've already found a number of very enlightening and illuminating archived posts from the pre-2016 era, but the following one really sort of jumped out at me. In it, one particular persono (who I think we all know) directly accused another person (who I also think we all know) of being a "fraud"... his word, not mine... for having given a false physical location while attempting to run for what I gather was a (co-?) chair seat on the AFRINIC Policy Development Committee. I am not persuaded that the poster in this case would be eager to repeat that claim now, given his rather different present circumtances. https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2014/003849.html Regards, rfg P.S. It is my forlorn hope that I might yet live to see the day when the many the knuckleheads who post to public RIR mailing lists might yet come to be educated regarding the value of wrapping the lines of their mailing list posts at 80 columns, e.g. so that readers of the archives will not be obliged to do vertical scrolling for miles in order to read any one of their posts in the archives. But of course, some people are just too lazy to give a damn about anything but their own personal convenience, and they are fundamentally un-educatable. From abscoco at gmail.com Thu Aug 12 09:13:45 2021 From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain Baya) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2021 10:13:45 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gems from the Archives In-Reply-To: <35989.1628748085@segfault.tristatelogic.com> References: <35989.1628748085@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: Dear AfriNIC's Community, Please see my comments below, inline... Le jeu. 12 ao?t 2021 ? 7:01 AM, Ronald F. Guilmette a ?crit : > I myself only took an interest in AFRINIC starting about 2016. Hi Ronald, Many thanks for sharing it, brother! > I have been hunting down snoweshoe spammeers since about 2004, but [...] > > More recently of course, I have had some reason to take an interest, as > I believe you all know. > > [...] In it, one particular persono (who I think we all > know) directly accused another person (who I also think we all know) of > being a "fraud"... his word, not mine... for having given a false physical > location while attempting to run for what I gather was a (co-?) chair seat > on the AFRINIC Policy Development Committee. > > I am not persuaded that the poster in this case would be eager to repeat > that claim now, given his rather different present circumtances. > > It's always good to have hopes :-/ ...knowing that: "[...] Guessing is not the way [...]" > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2014/003849.html > > > At that time it was just "an absurdity". ...copy & paste the public archive here: ~?~ [rpd] Guessing is not the way to verify information*Owen DeLong* owen at delong.com *Fri Jun 6 02:44:09 UTC 2014* - Previous message: [rpd] Guessing is not the way to verify information - Next message: [rpd] Guessing is not the way to verify information - *Messages sorted by:* [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] ------------------------------ That was said largely tongue in cheek and you failed to get it. The reality was that you made a fraudulent application claiming residency in a country where you have an office, but do not reside. Your fraud was noticed by the nominating committee and your candidacy was rejected. Then you accused them of guessing instead of asking you, so multiple people asked you. You basically refused to state your residency, but when finally pushed, you admitted that you did not live in the service region. After that, the phrase "but he guessed right" was used as a semi-humorous retort to your continued and repeated accusation that he guessed. In reality, your fraud attempt was noted and you were removed from the slate for entirely legitimate reasons. The process worked and the correct outcome was achieved. It's past time to move on from this absurdity. Owen >* On Jun 5, 2014, at 4:41 PM, Lu Heng > wrote: *> >* Hey everybody: *> >* Today on the floor that is a common said guessing is a way to *>* verifying information for noncom--as long as you guess it right. *> >* I think it is not the right way of doing things. just a common. *> >* -- *>* -- *>* Kind regards. *>* Lu *> >* This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. *>* It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or *>* otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use *>* of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the *>* intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received *>* this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and *>* e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this *>* message and including the text of the transmission received. *>* _______________________________________________ *>* rpd mailing list *>* rpd at afrinic.net *>* https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd * ~?~ That is a reason why, i and some others are defending the integrity of our public archives. ...now! redondantly saved [1] since april 2015 ;-) Added, though [2] :-) __ [1]: [2]: Shalom, --sb. > Regards, > rfg > [...] -- -- Best Regards ! __ baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]| Subscribe to Mailing List: __ #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|#?Romains15?:33?Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec vous tous! ?#?Amen?!? ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement? ?Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!?(#Psaumes42:2) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yakmutd at googlemail.com Thu Aug 12 10:32:20 2021 From: yakmutd at googlemail.com (Daniel Yakmut) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2021 11:32:20 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 820, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <554611ad-876b-bb4e-a917-832bc620fbaa@gmail.com> I picked this point below enumerate by Taiwo as the major pillar of the problems that AfriNIC is spiraling into. Immediately, I observed attempts of foisting leadership on people especially with the case of? forcing the appointment of Co-Chairs down out throats, I definitely knew that we are in for a long, rough and unwinding journey. I also suspect the reasons for some of the actions taken by the Leadership of AfriNIC to make unpalatable changes to the AC and PDWG? was all planned. This has started manifesting with hurried passage of policies, refusal to entertain appeals and now seizures of IPs of members under the guise of gross misuse. All this not withstanding we need to come back to the basics of correcting the structure of the leadership of AfriNIC and handling its affairs. As all time members must be treated fairly and equitably. Outside this, we have not yet seen the worse of times. Simply Daniel On 11/08/2021 1:00 pm, community-discuss-request at afrinic.net wrote: > 4. As for the AFRINIC board ? this is an entire chapter that is almost becoming a joke - , there have been several recent cases of power abuse, which have completely violated the PDP's governing documents and its bottom-up process. Mid-appeals, there were consecutive questionable resignations of two members of the appeal committee, which were followed by the board's decision to suspend the appeals and then revoke the existing Appeal Committee Terms of Reference for replacement, which has resulted in the unprecedented and recent dissolution of the appeal committee. > > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/012403.html > > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/012340.html > > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/013494.html From chresgoro at gmail.com Thu Aug 12 10:53:40 2021 From: chresgoro at gmail.com (Christian Orozco) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2021 18:53:40 +0800 Subject: [Community-Discuss] How to we move from here. In-Reply-To: <1A994420-0697-4967-9137-5EBFC6FBEDBF@gmail.com> References: <1A994420-0697-4967-9137-5EBFC6FBEDBF@gmail.com> Message-ID: It would be very hard to regain trust in AFRINIC based on what we have learned about its unjust actions. Indeed, AFRINIC needs to reorganize and undergo some sort of transformation. We all understand that such a process will take some time but on the other hand, a more stable RIR can be tapped to sustain its operation for the benefit of many users. Regards, Christian On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 12:32 AM Brian Sowers wrote: > Very eloquently said. In short, AFRINIC bungles or botches every > decision/policy. From Ernest to this present-day litigation with Cloud, it > is evident AFRINIC does not have Africa?s best internet interests at heart. > Rather, AFRINIC is more so interested in power and control; it is > self-serving. I believe the few standing in defense of AFRINIC are doing > more than giving a blind eye to AFRINIC?s corrupted operations. They are > serving their own temporary self-interest at the great cost of long lasting > repercussions for Africa. There is otherwise no explanation. > > The answer to your question, how do we move from here, is evident. AFRINIC > can no longer be trusted for the development and stability of the internet > in Africa. In fact, it could never be trusted. Either a *new* ?bottom-up? > approach in that it clears the personnel in its entirety at the roots at > AFRINIC with new trusted personnel is to be implemented, or 2. that AFRINIC > is disbanded altogether and it?s resources allocated to another RIR, such > as RIPE. Both options are in Africa?s best interest. > > > -Brian > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yakmutd at googlemail.com Thu Aug 12 12:33:34 2021 From: yakmutd at googlemail.com (Daniel Yakmut) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2021 13:33:34 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Joint statement on the current AFRINIC situation from the African Regional RENs (AFRINIC Communication) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear All, How and why did we allow ourselves to begin to behave like our typical African Politicians. AfriNIC have been reduced to an organization that is now requiring crowd to sing its praise. This is an indication that AfriNIC has derailed and is failing. Pls we should be looking at how do we recover from this failings and make AfriNIC work again. I don't subscribe to this so call solidarity messages. If things have been done right, we shouldn't be doing this. Simply, Daniel On 12/08/2021 11:32 am, community-discuss-request at afrinic.net wrote: > Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to > community-discuss at afrinic.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > community-discuss-request at afrinic.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > community-discuss-owner at afrinic.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: [members-discuss] Joint statement on the current AFRINIC > situation from the African Regional RENs (AFRINIC Communication) > 2. Re: TESPOK_KENYA STATEMENT ON AFRINIC (Noah) > 3. TESPOK_KENYA STATEMENT ON AFRINIC (Sylvain Baya) > 4. Re: Share About Cloud Innovation Ltd and their business (Mirriam) > 5. Re: TESPOK_KENYA STATEMENT ON AFRINIC (Owen DeLong) > 6. Gems from the Archives (Ronald F. Guilmette) > 7. Gems from the Archives (Sylvain Baya) > 8. Re: Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 820, Issue 1 (Daniel Yakmut) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2021 18:06:42 +0400 > From: AFRINIC Communication > To: Paul Wollner > Cc: Community Discuss , "habib.youssef" > , members-discuss > > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Joint statement on > the current AFRINIC situation from the African Regional RENs > Message-ID: <8B8039F3-60A0-44FF-8738-8D3587F89601 at afrinic.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Mr Wollner, > > The Code of Conduct was not applied as Mr. Habib publicly apologised to the mailing list. > > Regards, > > AFRINIC Communications > >> On 11 Aug 2021, at 11:15, Paul Wollner wrote: >> >> I am curious as to why AFRINIC is silent when comes to enforcing CoC on its vice chairman of the board? Why has the board member not resigned after such an improper public comment? >> >> Regards >> Paul >> >> >> ---- On Tue, 03 Aug 2021 11:41:29 +0200 habib.youssef via Members-Discuss wrote ---- >> >> Thanks Boubakar, Yousef and Matthews for your support. >> What Lu Heng and company have started to do since several years to go is criminal by all standards. >> I hope Afrinic will get out stronger from crisis. >> --Habib. >> >> >> >> Sent from my Galaxy >> >> >> -------- Original message -------- >> From: Boubakar Barry > >> Date: 03/08/2021 08:49 (GMT+01:00) >> To: Members Discuss > >> Subject: [members-discuss] Joint statement on the current AFRINIC situation from the African Regional RENs >> >> Dear All, >> >> On behalf of the three African regional RENs, please find attached our joint statement on the current situation at AFRINIC. >> >> It says: >> --- >> ASREN, UbuntuNet Alliance and WACREN are the regional research and education networks interconnecting national research and education networks (NRENs) across the continent (Northern Africa, Eastern and Southern Africa, West and Central Africa). >> African RENs provide connectivity and other services to millions of end users in the education and research community (students, faculty, researchers, administrators, etc.), and INRs are critical for the delivery of these services. >> The REN community is following with interest but also with concern the heated debate on the current lawsuit against AFRINIC that led to the freezing of its bank accounts, thus jeopardizing its operations. >> Many years ago, members of the REN community expressed concerns about a risk for AFRINIC, when a resource member publicly said that AFRINIC will face bankruptcy if it dares consider reclaiming resources that many members thought were assigned wrongly, or at least were not used as initially indicated. It was, at that time, recommended to address this issue seriously. >> And here we are. >> Anyway: the current situation is very serious and our community and the friends of the African Internet community should stand together and fight against those who want to destroy and bury AFRINIC. >> Yes, there are things to improve at AFRINIC. But in this critical situation, we urge all to stand by and support the Board and Management of our organization. >> We say no to any attempt to move the management of Internet number resources attributed to Africa to any other organization. >> Therefore, we, as representatives of the African REN community, express our full support to AFRINIC Board and Management and invite all Africans and friends of Africa to do the same. >> >> Signed: >> For ASREN (www.asrenorg.net ): Dr. Yousef Torman, Co-MD >> >> For Ubuntunet Alliance (www.ubuntunet.net ): Dr. Matthews Mtumbuka, CEO >> >> For WACREN (www.wacren.net ): Dr. Boubakar Barry, CEO >> >> ________________________________________________________________ >> >> Best wishes, >> >> Boubakar Barry >> -- >> CEO/Directeur G?n?ral, WACREN >> Web: http://www.wacren.net >> ***Keep it simple, as simple as possible, but not simpler. (A. Einstein)*** >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Members-Discuss mailing list >> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2021 17:52:52 +0300 > From: Noah > To: Fiona Asonga > Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC , > AfriNIC Discuss > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] TESPOK_KENYA STATEMENT ON AFRINIC > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi Fiona, > > Thank you so much for the statement from the Technology Service Providers > of Kenya (*TESPOK*) on AFRINIC. > > Cheers, > *./noah* > neo - network engineering and operations > > > On Wed, Aug 11, 2021 at 3:33 PM Fiona Asonga wrote: > >> Dear All >> >> TESPOK- Technology Service Providers Of Kenya has issued the following >> statement regarding the current situation at AFRINIC. >> >> It reads: >> >> >> 10th August 2021 >> >> >> >> *STATEMENT OF TECHNOLOGY SERVICE PROVIDERS OF KENYA (TESPOK) ON AFRINIC* >> >> >> >> Technology Service Providers of Kenya (TESPOK) is a professional non- >> profit organization representing interests of Technology Service Providers >> in Kenya and it runs the Kenya Internet Exchange Point. >> >> >> >> TESPOK and its 80+ members are dependent on the internet resources >> acquired as members of AFRINIC, thus AFRINIC plays a crucial role as the >> sole delegated administrator of critical Internet resources for the African >> region as Kenya internet users rely on AFRINIC to provide and efficiently >> distribute internet number resources, support internet technology usage to >> be able to connect to the Internet and to conduct business online. >> >> >> >> Afrinic?s Chief Executive Officer?s communication to members regarding the >> dispute between AFRINIC and Cloud Innovation Limited has left TESPOK and >> its membership concerned. The dispute has led to AFRINICS accounts being >> frozen thus hindering AFRINIC?s ability to operate and perform its duties. >> >> >> >> TESPOK recognizes that AFRINIC plays an important role in running critical >> services for the global internet thus we at TESPOK would like to support >> AFRINIC meet its operational obligations until the dispute is resolved. >> >> >> >> We thank the AFRINIC CEO, Eddy Kayihura for the constant updates and >> reassurance he has provided members and we would like to humbly appeal to >> AFRINIC?s Board of Directors and Senior Management to focus on its core >> mandate and ensure the stability of Africa?s internet ecosystem. >> >> >> >> TESPOK hopes that AFRINIC will do everything within its ability to ensure >> business continuity and that a swift amicable solution to the dispute shall >> be reached. >> >> >> >> *ENDS...* >> >> *About TESPOK * >> >> *Telecommunications Service Providers Association of Kenya (TESPOK) is a >> professional, non-profit organization representing the interests of >> telecommunication service providers in Kenya. Established in 1999, the >> strength of the Association rests on its ability to be truly representative >> of the Kenyan industry as a whole. The association has brought the issues >> affecting its members into the limelight creating awareness among policy >> makers and the general public as well as producing several concrete >> outcomes. **More information is available >> at: https://www.tespok.co.ke/?p=14010 * >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: mail_signature-01.jpg > Type: image/jpeg > Size: 66589 bytes > Desc: not available > URL: > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2021 22:55:50 +0100 > From: Sylvain Baya > To: General Discussions of AFRINIC > Subject: [Community-Discuss] TESPOK_KENYA STATEMENT ON AFRINIC > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Dear AfriNIC's Community, > > Le mercredi 11 ao?t 2021, Fiona Asonga a ?crit : > >> Dear All >> >> > Hi Fiona, > > ...i thank you and all the valuable resource members from TESPOK, for this > great support. > > > TESPOK- Technology Service Providers Of Kenya has issued the following >> statement regarding the current situation at AFRINIC. >> >> > That's a really appreciated kind of response, i > personally encourage other resource members > to endorse it...anyone should understand the risk attached to the situation > in which only few (one?) resource member(s?) have jeopardized AfriNIC, > including all those who respect the RSA they have > signed prior to receiving some INRs; to use within > the AfriNIC service region...in compliance with the > CPM. > > ...also, given the brutality, of that adverse action, > i ask myself if the appropriate response is not to > launch a joint similar action against that adversary > LIR? it seems to be easy to calculate the actual > value of the INRs holding by all the resource > members whose businesses could be potentially > affected by the freeze of AfriNIC's bank accounts. > > ...maybe TESPOK should try to coordinate with > the other potentially affected resource members > (~1900)? also note that: that "INRs War" has been > started and the other camp is actively recruiting, > publicly through their QG web site at NRA...maybe > gathering the resource members might be a good > start :-/ > > The risk is shared with the other RIRs which form > a unique Internet Numbers Registry System (INRS) > (RFC7020); now under the same attack... > > Thanks once more. > > Shalom, > --sb. > > > >> It reads: >> >> >> 10th August 2021 >> >> >> >> *STATEMENT OF TECHNOLOGY SERVICE PROVIDERS OF KENYA (TESPOK) ON AFRINIC* >> >> >> >> Technology Service Providers of Kenya (TESPOK) is a professional non- >> profit organization representing interests of Technology Service Providers >> in Kenya and it runs the Kenya Internet Exchange Point. >> >> >> >> TESPOK and its 80+ members are dependent on the internet resources >> acquired as members of AFRINIC, thus AFRINIC plays a crucial role as the >> sole delegated administrator of critical Internet resources for the African >> region as Kenya internet users rely on AFRINIC to provide and efficiently >> distribute internet number resources, support internet technology usage to >> be able to connect to the Internet and to conduct business online. >> >> >> >> Afrinic?s Chief Executive Officer?s communication to members regarding the >> dispute between AFRINIC and Cloud Innovation Limited has left TESPOK and >> its membership concerned. The dispute has led to AFRINICS accounts being >> frozen thus hindering AFRINIC?s ability to operate and perform its duties. >> >> >> >> TESPOK recognizes that AFRINIC plays an important role in running critical >> services for the global internet thus we at TESPOK would like to support >> AFRINIC meet its operational obligations until the dispute is resolved. >> >> >> >> We thank the AFRINIC CEO, Eddy Kayihura for the constant updates and >> reassurance he has provided members and we would like to humbly appeal to >> AFRINIC?s Board of Directors and Senior Management to focus on its core >> mandate and ensure the stability of Africa?s internet ecosystem. >> >> >> >> TESPOK hopes that AFRINIC will do everything within its ability to ensure >> business continuity and that a swift amicable solution to the dispute shall >> be reached. >> >> >> >> *ENDS...* >> >> *About TESPOK * >> >> *Telecommunications Service Providers Association of Kenya (TESPOK) is a >> professional, non-profit organization representing the interests of >> telecommunication service providers in Kenya. Established in 1999, the >> strength of the Association rests on its ability to be truly representative >> of the Kenyan industry as a whole. The association has brought the issues >> affecting its members into the limelight creating awareness among policy >> makers and the general public as well as producing several concrete >> outcomes. **More information is available >> at: https://www.tespok.co.ke/?p=14010 * >> >> >> >> >> >> From b.sowers154 at gmail.com Thu Aug 12 16:19:51 2021 From: b.sowers154 at gmail.com (Brian Sowers) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2021 12:19:51 -0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] How to we move from here. Message-ID: More will be revealed on Aug 13 after the court makes its decision. Hopefully it acts swiftly for Africa?s benefit? which is distinctly separate from AFRINIC?s benefit. I just wonder how long members will sit idly by and watch everything from corruption to malfeasance occur in AFRINIC. Remember, AFRINIC was founded only 17 years ago. There?s a difference between growing pains and whatever this is with AFRINIC. What Taiwo has generously laid out for the community shows that AFRINIC is in violation of its own core values. Integrity? Nope. Passion? Perhaps in lining its own pockets. Excellence? I laugh. Community Driven? The community is driven but I?m not sure how receptive they are to us, as shown by line item #5. Where are all the refuters? It?s notably quiet on this thread. -Brian From owen at delong.com Thu Aug 12 19:14:33 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2021 12:14:33 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gems from the Archives In-Reply-To: References: <35989.1628748085@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: <650E2CB8-3C54-4BE8-A0CE-C7032A068F4F@delong.com> I have always called it as I see it. When Lu is wrong, I tell him so and if necessary, I say so. When the AFRINIC board is wrong, I will tell them so and if necessary, I say so. There is, indeed, from my perspective little difference between my comments about Lu back then and my comments about the Board and Staff actions today. In each case, mistakes were being made and actions were taken that should not. As I have said on multiple occasions, while I don?t like many of the things Lu has done, he has acted within the literal meaning of the governing documents. If AFRINIC wants to prohibit out of region use, then there is a process for doing so. As yet, they have not followed that process. If AFRINIC wants to prohibit the provision of addresses without also providing connectivity, there is a process for doing so. As yet, they have not followed that process. The greatest danger in these processes is an RIR acting in a manner not prescribed by its governing documents. I can?t and won?t speak to the motivations of others, but I will say that the reason I took on this contract was because I truly believed (and still believe) that it is vital to defend the community from an RIR that would act in such a manner, regardless of what fraction of the community fails to recognize this fact. There are very few checks and balances on RIRs. With one exception, this has been largely a non-issue because most RIRs are very careful not to trample the rights of their members and work diligently to adhere to their governing documents. IMHO, it is in the vital interests of the internet to cure that exception, whether by force of legal order, change of leadership, or some other as yet unknown process. Owen > On Aug 12, 2021, at 02:13 , Sylvain Baya wrote: > > Dear AfriNIC's Community, > > Please see my comments below, inline... > > Le jeu. 12 ao?t 2021 ? 7:01 AM, Ronald F. Guilmette > a ?crit : > I myself only took an interest in AFRINIC starting about 2016. > > > Hi Ronald, > Many thanks for sharing it, brother! > > > I have been hunting down snoweshoe spammeers since about 2004, but [...] > > More recently of course, I have had some reason to take an interest, as > I believe you all know. > > [...] In it, one particular persono (who I think we all > know) directly accused another person (who I also think we all know) of > being a "fraud"... his word, not mine... for having given a false physical > location while attempting to run for what I gather was a (co-?) chair seat > on the AFRINIC Policy Development Committee. > > I am not persuaded that the poster in this case would be eager to repeat > that claim now, given his rather different present circumtances. > > > It's always good to have hopes :-/ > ...knowing that: "[...] Guessing is not the way [...]" > > > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2014/003849.html > > > > At that time it was just "an absurdity". > > ...copy & paste the public archive here: > > ~?~ > [rpd] Guessing is not the way to verify information > > Owen DeLong owen at delong.com > Fri Jun 6 02:44:09 UTC 2014 > > Previous message: [rpd] Guessing is not the way to verify information > Next message: [rpd] Guessing is not the way to verify information > Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] > That was said largely tongue in cheek and you failed to get it. > The reality was that you made a fraudulent application claiming residency in a country where you have an office, but do not reside. Your fraud was noticed by the nominating committee and your candidacy was rejected. > Then you accused them of guessing instead of asking you, so multiple people asked you. You basically refused to state your residency, but when finally pushed, you admitted that you did not live in the service region. > > After that, the phrase "but he guessed right" was used as a semi-humorous retort to your continued and repeated accusation that he guessed. In reality, your fraud attempt was noted and you were removed from the slate for entirely legitimate reasons. The process worked and the correct outcome was achieved. > > It's past time to move on from this absurdity. > > Owen > > > > On Jun 5, 2014, at 4:41 PM, Lu Heng > wrote: > > > > Hey everybody: > > > > Today on the floor that is a common said guessing is a way to > > verifying information for noncom--as long as you guess it right. > > > > I think it is not the right way of doing things. just a common. > > > > -- > > -- > > Kind regards. > > Lu > > > > This transmission is intended solely for the addressee(s) shown above. > > It may contain information that is privileged, confidential or > > otherwise protected from disclosure. Any review, dissemination or use > > of this transmission or its contents by persons other than the > > intended addressee(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received > > this transmission in error, please notify this office immediately and > > e-mail the original at the sender's address above by replying to this > > message and including the text of the transmission received. > > _______________________________________________ > > rpd mailing list > > rpd at afrinic.net > > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo.cgi/rpd > ~?~ > > That is a reason why, i and some others > are defending the integrity of our public > archives. > > ...now! redondantly saved [1] since april 2015 ;-) > Added, though [2] :-) > __ > [1]: > > [2]: > > > > Shalom, > --sb. > > > > Regards, > rfg > [...] > > > -- > -- > Best Regards ! > __ > baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]|> > Subscribe to Mailing List: > > __ > #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|#?Romains15?:33?Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec vous tous! ?#?Amen?!? > ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement? > ?Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!?(#Psaumes42:2) > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rfg at tristatelogic.com Thu Aug 12 19:31:40 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2021 12:31:40 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gems from the Archives In-Reply-To: <650E2CB8-3C54-4BE8-A0CE-C7032A068F4F@delong.com> Message-ID: <46307.1628796700@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In message <650E2CB8-3C54-4BE8-A0CE-C7032A068F4F at delong.com>, Owen DeLong wrote: >{... excuses snipped...} Why don't you answer the simple question that John Curran politely asked you several days ago now? Regards, rfg P.S. What part of "wrap at 80 columns" do you still have trouble comprehending? From madomey at hotmail.com Fri Aug 13 07:18:37 2021 From: madomey at hotmail.com (Marcus K. G. Adomey) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2021 07:18:37 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] ARIN without Owen Delong ? In-Reply-To: References: , , Message-ID: Dear Owen, I would like to draw you attention to the fact that you have not yet answer the questions in this email. Please, do justice to them; the community needs the answers. Marcus ________________________________ From: Marcus K. G. Adomey Sent: Friday, July 16, 2021 3:06 PM To: Owen DeLong Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net ; AfriNIC Resource Policy Discussion List Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] ARIN without Owen Delong ? Hi again Owen, Let me then help you with some easy and praticable questions here so that we close this case. Following your attachment to some recent developments between cloud Innovation and AFRINIC, are you paid by cloud innovations or related companies? Is your departure from arin ac anyhow related to this relationship ? Hope this helps Marcus ________________________________ From: Marcus K. G. Adomey Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2021 6:54:26 PM To: Owen DeLong Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net ; AfriNIC Resource Policy Discussion List Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] ARIN without Owen Delong ? Hi Owen. Interesting that one must get a petition signed by 5 people for you to response to a such easy inquiry. Your private mails did not say anything beyond what you publicly said and which triggered my follow on points. As we all participate in Policy development as ? individual ? ? one need to know where are the possible or perceived conflicts of Interest coming from and why it was not dealt with according to CoI policy What is seen as Conflict over there can also be a conflict here and best practices call for these to be disclosed. Marcus ________________________________ From: Owen DeLong Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2021 12:08:32 AM To: Marcus K. G. Adomey Cc: DANIEL NANGHAKA ; AfriNIC Resource Policy Discussion List ; community-discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] ARIN without Owen Delong ? Once again, list, I apologize? I did not Bcc it to anyone. I did send it only to Daniel and to you. The fact that you know I sent it to Daniel is proof that it was not a BCC and that you apparently do not understand how email works. Please (re)read RFCs 821, 822, and 1123. Try to understand them this time. As to why, because while you may be a huge fan of mine with a distorted view of the importance of my actions to the entire community, the reality is that this is a fairly mundane action I took in America regarding a leadership position in an RIR that has no jurisdiction anywhere near Africa and that it has no impact or effect on anyone in this community that I can think of. In short it simply isn?t relevant and isn?t a valid subject for this list. Please do tell what it is that you think is of interest to the community here and what you believe you need to know that I have not already answered? It?s not that I?m trying to hide anything, it?s just that I am at a loss to figure out what you are so interested in. If more than 5 people express interest in the answer to your question, then I will answer it publicly. Otherwise, I will take it as an indication that I am correct that it is off topic and uninteresting except to you and respond privately. Owen On Jul 14, 2021, at 05:26 , Marcus K. G. Adomey > wrote: Hi Owen, Why have you BCC me the email you sent to Daniel? Why can't you send your response to the entire mailing list? Is there something hidden in this private email and you would not want the others to know about? The point being discuss is of interest and we need to know. Please let us be transparent and open to the PDWG. Thanks, Marcus ________________________________ From: Owen DeLong > Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2021 10:56 AM To: DANIEL NANGHAKA >; Marcus K. G. Adomey > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] ARIN without Owen Delong ? Daniel, Responding in private since this is off-topic for the list. This really has nothing to do with the AFRNIC PDP and has to do with things I want to be able to say and advocate for in the ARIN region. There is no conflict between my activities in AFRINIC PDP and my role on the ARIN AC. As to my interest in the AFRINIC PDP, you should note that I?m also at various times active in APNIC, LACNIC, RIPE, and ARIN PDPs. I make my living as a consultant and I have at various times had clients all over the world and some clients with global networks. As a result, I am often asked to pay attention to the PDP in those regions. I am also someone with a strong sense of community service. As such, since I am obliged to monitor the process for my client(s) anyway, I will often work towards what I perceive as the best interests of the community (regardless of whether it is best for my client or not) and I will often advocate as such. In general, I select clients who are generally ideologically aligned with me. One exception is Cloud Innovation. While I am not ideologically 100% in agreement with them and do not necessarily favor the current state of policy which benefits them, I am even more concerned that the RIRs cannot simply make up policy or randomly interpret policy to suit their ideological goals and must, instead, follow the policy as written until it is amended through the proper community process. AFRINIC has a long history of corruption, election irregularities, financial misdeeds, and failure to properly follow its own rules in both its governance process and in its management of the IP registry database. As such, I have maintained a high level of interest in AFRINIC?s doings in an effort to do what I can to help resolve those issues. Owen On Jul 14, 2021, at 03:38 , DANIEL NANGHAKA > wrote: Dear Marcus, I strongly agree, that there are policy updates from the other RIRs, what is catching my interest at the moment is that Owen has been one of the very active participants on PDP and I believe AFRINIC has a high level of freedom of expression. When he gives a reason that he wants to have greater freedom and flexibility to advocate for changes in the internet community, some of which would be considered a conflict of interest with his role as an Advisory Council member. I begin to realise that Owen could have been having a high conflict of interest which conflicted with his position on the AC. Dear Owen, Owen, kindly advise how we could deal with the Conflict of Interest in the PDP as you state it clearly in your reason. Furthermore, I still have question marks as to why the AFRINIC PDP is of high interest to you - yet the Policies discussed are for the development of the Internet in Africa. Is something wrong with the AFRINIC PDP that stimulates high interest for your participation in AFRINIC Process that the Africa participants have failed to solve which requires your expertise? Is ARIN more superior than AFRINIC? Thanks Daniel [https://mailfoogae.appspot.com/t?sender=aZG5kYW5uYW5nQGdtYWlsLmNvbQ%3D%3D&type=zerocontent&guid=a9e695cc-c10a-4179-9b43-33032923c218]? On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 at 13:26, Marcus K. G. Adomey > wrote: Dear Owen and PDWG, I don?t think this is an off-topic. There are reasons why we always have session on ?policy update from other RIRs? at every PPM?it?s like we care for what happened at ARIN PDP through its AC and possible impact on our PDP and related issues In response to the statement below, one would like to know why is Owen talking about ? was not forced to resign?? Nobody said so AFAIK, how come the position at ARIN constitute restraint to speech and why only now? And question for this community is how do we deal with conflict of interest in our PDP? Thanks Marcus ________________________________ From: Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss > Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2021 5:03:19 PM To: Arnaud AMELINA > Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC >; AfriNIC Resource Policy Discussion List > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] ARIN without Owen Delong ? Apologies to the list for this off-topic posting, but given the unwarranted attention already paid to the matter and the escalating level of speculation, I beg your indulgence. This will (hopefully) be the only post I make on the matter here. For clarity: 1. I chose to resign my position on the ARIN AC. I was not forced to resign. I did not have to resign. So your speculation is neither accurate, nor appropriate and the implications are offensive. 2. I chose to resign in order to have greater freedom and flexibility to advocate for changes in the internet community, some of which would be considered a conflict of interest with my role as an Advisory Council member. While I have been outspoken by most standards, the reality is that my position on the AC did serve as a significant restraint to my speech in many cases. The time has come where I felt the need to remove that restraint in order to best serve the community. Reading anything other than the above into it would be a mistake and further speculation is very unlikely to produce any accurate conclusions. If anyone has questions about my resignation, they are free to ask me directly, but this really is not an appropriate topic for this list. Owen On Jul 13, 2021, at 05:56 , Arnaud AMELINA > wrote: @Taiwo We all would like to know why Owen, so active in our PDP, has to resign from his position at ARIN AC which serves in an advisory capacity to the Board of Trustees on Internet number resource policy and related matters. -- Arnaud Le lun. 12 juil. 2021 ? 12:37, Taiwo Oye > a ?crit : ?Benjilo. How is this of concern to you or to any of the members of the afrinic community. Kindly direct your question to the appropriate quarters - owen at delong.com - On Jul 11, 2021, at 19:27, Paschal Ochang > wrote: ?Great question Daniel. On Sunday, July 11, 2021, DANIEL NANGHAKA > wrote: Is this worth discussing on the rpd or mailing lists? On Sun, Jul 11, 2021, 8:36 PM Marcus K. G. Adomey > wrote: Hello Out of curiosity, does anyone know why Owen Delong active in AFRINIC PDP resigned from ARIN AC? https://www.arin.net/about/welcome/ac/meetings/2021_0617/ point 10 Marcus _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -- Kind regards, Paschal. _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss _______________________________________________ RPD mailing list RPD at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amelnaud at gmail.com Fri Aug 13 09:30:31 2021 From: amelnaud at gmail.com (Arnaud AMELINA) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2021 09:30:31 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] ARIN without Owen Delong ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Bonjour chers membres de la communaut?, Merci @Marcus pour le rappel, chers tous, c'est surprenant que quelqu'un qui est prompt ? r?pondre avec un long message, ? de simple remarques ou observation n'allant pas dans le sens de sa compr?hension des textes d' Afrinic, soit jusqu' aujourd'hui aux abonn?s absents, pour r?pondre ? une simple question de M. John, le DG d'ARIN ? alors m?me qu'il r?agit encore ? d'autres messages, mais feint de ne pas r?agir ? celui de M. John. Que peut-on d?duire de cette r?action ?? Aidez-moi ? comprendre chers membres. Merci. -- Arnaud Le ven. 13 ao?t 2021 ? 07:20, Marcus K. G. Adomey a ?crit : > Dear Owen, > > I would like to draw you attention to the fact that you have not yet > answer the questions in this email. Please, do justice to them; the > community needs the answers. > > > Marcus > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Marcus K. G. Adomey > *Sent:* Friday, July 16, 2021 3:06 PM > *To:* Owen DeLong > *Cc:* community-discuss at afrinic.net ; > AfriNIC Resource Policy Discussion List > *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] ARIN without Owen Delong ? > > Hi again Owen, > > Let me then help you with some easy and praticable questions here so > that we close this case. > > Following your attachment to some recent developments between cloud > Innovation and AFRINIC, are you paid by cloud innovations or related > companies? Is your departure from arin ac anyhow related to this > relationship ? > > Hope this helps > > > > > Marcus > ------------------------------ > *From:* Marcus K. G. Adomey > *Sent:* Thursday, July 15, 2021 6:54:26 PM > *To:* Owen DeLong > *Cc:* community-discuss at afrinic.net ; > AfriNIC Resource Policy Discussion List > *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] ARIN without Owen Delong ? > > Hi Owen. > > Interesting that one must get a petition signed by 5 people for you to > response to a such easy inquiry. > > Your private mails did not say anything beyond what you publicly said and > which triggered my follow on points. > > As we all participate in Policy development as ? individual ? ? one need > to know where are the possible or perceived conflicts of Interest coming > from and why it was not dealt with according to CoI policy > > What is seen as Conflict over there can also be a conflict here and best > practices call for these to be disclosed. > > > > > Marcus > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Owen DeLong > *Sent:* Thursday, July 15, 2021 12:08:32 AM > *To:* Marcus K. G. Adomey > *Cc:* DANIEL NANGHAKA ; AfriNIC Resource Policy > Discussion List ; community-discuss at afrinic.net < > community-discuss at afrinic.net> > *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] ARIN without Owen Delong ? > > Once again, list, I apologize? > > I did not Bcc it to anyone. I did send it only to Daniel and to you. The > fact that you know I sent it to Daniel is proof that it was not a BCC and > that you apparently do not understand how email works. Please (re)read RFCs > 821, 822, and 1123. Try to understand them this time. > > As to why, because while you may be a huge fan of mine with a distorted > view of the importance of my actions to the entire community, the reality > is that this is a fairly mundane action I took in America regarding a > leadership position in an RIR that has no jurisdiction anywhere near Africa > and that it has no impact or effect on anyone in this community that I can > think of. In short it simply isn?t relevant and isn?t a valid subject for > this list. > > Please do tell what it is that you think is of interest to the community > here and what you believe you need to know that I have not already answered? > > It?s not that I?m trying to hide anything, it?s just that I am at a loss > to figure out what you are so interested in. > > If more than 5 people express interest in the answer to your question, > then I will answer it publicly. Otherwise, I will take it as an indication > that I am correct that it is off topic and uninteresting except to you and > respond privately. > > Owen > > > > On Jul 14, 2021, at 05:26 , Marcus K. G. Adomey > wrote: > > Hi Owen, > > Why have you BCC me the email you sent to Daniel? Why can't you send your > response to the entire mailing list? Is there something hidden in this > private email and you would not want the others to know about? The point > being discuss is of interest and we need to know. > > Please let us be transparent and open to the PDWG. > > Thanks, > > > > Marcus > > > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Owen DeLong > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 14, 2021 10:56 AM > *To:* DANIEL NANGHAKA ; Marcus K. G. Adomey < > madomey at hotmail.com> > *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] ARIN without Owen Delong ? > > Daniel, > > Responding in private since this is off-topic for the list. > > This really has nothing to do with the AFRNIC PDP and has to do with > things I want to be able to say and advocate for in the ARIN region. > > There is no conflict between my activities in AFRINIC PDP and my role on > the ARIN AC. > > As to my interest in the AFRINIC PDP, you should note that I?m also at > various times active in APNIC, LACNIC, RIPE, and ARIN PDPs. > > I make my living as a consultant and I have at various times had clients > all over the world and some clients with global networks. As a result, I am > often asked to pay attention to the PDP in those regions. > > I am also someone with a strong sense of community service. As such, since > I am obliged to monitor the process for my client(s) anyway, I will often > work towards what I perceive as the best interests of the community > (regardless of whether it is best for my client or not) and I will often > advocate as such. In general, I select clients who are generally > ideologically aligned with me. > > One exception is Cloud Innovation. While I am not ideologically 100% in > agreement with them and do not necessarily favor the current state of > policy which benefits them, I am even more concerned that the RIRs cannot > simply make up policy or randomly interpret policy to suit their > ideological goals and must, instead, follow the policy as written until it > is amended through the proper community process. > > AFRINIC has a long history of corruption, election irregularities, > financial misdeeds, and failure to properly follow its own rules in both > its governance process and in its management of the IP registry database. > As such, I have maintained a high level of interest in AFRINIC?s doings in > an effort to do what I can to help resolve those issues. > > Owen > > On Jul 14, 2021, at 03:38 , DANIEL NANGHAKA wrote: > > Dear Marcus, > > I strongly agree, that there are policy updates from the other RIRs, what > is catching my interest at the moment is that Owen has been one of the very > active participants on PDP and I believe AFRINIC has a high level of > freedom of expression. > When he gives a reason that he wants to have greater freedom and > flexibility to advocate for changes in the internet community, some of > which would be considered a conflict of interest with his role as an > Advisory Council member. I begin to realise that Owen could have been > having a high conflict of interest which conflicted with his position on > the AC. > > Dear Owen, > Owen, kindly advise how we could deal with the Conflict of Interest in the > PDP as you state it clearly in your reason. Furthermore, I still have > question marks as to why the AFRINIC PDP is of high interest to you - yet > the Policies discussed are for the development of the Internet in Africa. > Is something wrong with the AFRINIC PDP that stimulates high interest for > your participation in AFRINIC Process that the Africa participants have > failed to solve which requires your expertise? > > Is ARIN more superior than AFRINIC? > > Thanks > Daniel > > > ? > > On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 at 13:26, Marcus K. G. Adomey > wrote: > > Dear Owen and PDWG, > > I don?t think this is an off-topic. There are reasons why we always have > session on ?policy update from other RIRs? at every PPM?it?s like we care > for what happened at ARIN PDP through its AC and possible impact on our > PDP and related issues > > In response to the statement below, one would like to know why is Owen > talking about ? was not forced to resign?? Nobody said so AFAIK, how > come the position at ARIN constitute restraint to speech and why only now? > > And question for this community is how do we deal with conflict of > interest in our PDP? > > Thanks > > > > Marcus > > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 13, 2021 5:03:19 PM > *To:* Arnaud AMELINA > *Cc:* General Discussions of AFRINIC ; > AfriNIC Resource Policy Discussion List > *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] ARIN without Owen Delong ? > > Apologies to the list for this off-topic posting, but given the > unwarranted attention already paid to the > matter and the escalating level of speculation, I beg your indulgence. > This will (hopefully) be the > only post I make on the matter here. > > For clarity: > > 1. I chose to resign my position on the ARIN AC. I was not forced to > resign. I did not have to resign. > So your speculation is neither accurate, nor appropriate and the > implications are offensive. > > 2. I chose to resign in order to have greater freedom and flexibility to > advocate for changes in the > internet community, some of which would be considered a conflict of > interest with my role as > an Advisory Council member. While I have been outspoken by most standards, > the reality is > that my position on the AC did serve as a significant restraint to my > speech in many cases. > The time has come where I felt the need to remove that restraint in order > to best serve the > community. > > Reading anything other than the above into it would be a mistake and > further speculation is very > unlikely to produce any accurate conclusions. > > If anyone has questions about my resignation, they are free to ask me > directly, but this really is > not an appropriate topic for this list. > > Owen > > > On Jul 13, 2021, at 05:56 , Arnaud AMELINA wrote: > > @Taiwo > > We all would like to know why Owen, so active in our PDP, has to resign > from his position at ARIN AC which serves in an advisory capacity to the > Board of Trustees on Internet number resource policy and related matters. > > -- > Arnaud > > Le lun. 12 juil. 2021 ? 12:37, Taiwo Oye a > ?crit : > > ?Benjilo. > How is this of concern to you or to any of the members of the afrinic > community. Kindly direct your question to the appropriate quarters - > owen at delong.com - > > > On Jul 11, 2021, at 19:27, Paschal Ochang wrote: > > ?Great question Daniel. > > On Sunday, July 11, 2021, DANIEL NANGHAKA wrote: > > Is this worth discussing on the rpd or mailing lists? > > On Sun, Jul 11, 2021, 8:36 PM Marcus K. G. Adomey > wrote: > > Hello > > Out of curiosity, does anyone know why Owen Delong active in AFRINIC PDP > resigned from ARIN AC? > > https://www.arin.net/about/welcome/ac/meetings/2021_0617/ point 10 > > > > Marcus > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > > -- > Kind regards, > Paschal. > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > RPD mailing list > RPD at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > RPD mailing list > RPD at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pascosoft at gmail.com Fri Aug 13 11:30:29 2021 From: pascosoft at gmail.com (Paschal Ochang) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2021 12:30:29 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] How to we move from here. In-Reply-To: <330182B6-BC22-423A-A98C-FA12A1A975A0@gmail.com> References: <330182B6-BC22-423A-A98C-FA12A1A975A0@gmail.com> Message-ID: Well this is interesting. First of all it is nice to see that the question of how we can move forward is being asked amidst this keyboard war as I tend to call it. This is important because we need solutions on how to move forward and become more preventive rather than reactive. Secondly let's leave the focus on the external influencers and sanitize ourselves in house. AFRINIC is ours and it is our responsibility to provide support as we have seen in the multiple shows of solidarity through released statements. However, we need to sanitize the system to prevent the occurrence of some of the catastrophic events that have unfolded over the decade. There is a saying that there is no smoke without fire, therefore the statements above and other issues falling down to misappropriation and violation of clearly laid down procedures and processes have been known before now even without Taiwo highlighting them. Have these issues been dealt with? What framework do we put in place to prevent these issues from popping up over and over again? Do we just accept the hook, line and sinker that we will accept the system the way it is, throw a blind eye as if nothing has happened and then move forward? Thirdly and finally whether we like it or not we need to regain trust in the system. How do we do that? We can't keep blaming external folks if we can't put our house in order. This current situation is a litmus test to see how prepared we are to deal with future issues we may come to face as a community. On Tuesday, August 10, 2021, Taiwo Oye wrote: > > Hello, > > > > It is quite amusing that several community members are turning a blind eye > on AFRINIC's issues which impedes there ability to maintain a stable and > open Internet in the African region. It's difficult to understand the > philosophy behind this imperceptible loyalty -the subsequent disruption of > networks and connectivity is seen to be some of the worrying effects of > this issue - which will certainly have catastrophic consequences on > numerous Internet stakeholders. > > > > There are people who will argue regarding the legal intricacies of > Mauritius' decision, which turns this whole ordeal into a bizarre political > maelstrom. I believe the honorable Judge is making, and will continue to > make the right decision. In light of all the drama ongoing, I will like to > shed light of some incidences that brought us down this part. > > > > 1. Former AFRINIC staff, Ernest Byaruhanga, used to sell IP blocks to > whoever is willing to pay the highest price. It was seen that he also > attempted to exhaust AFRINIC's IPv4 reserves with no regards to the > community and the scarcity of those particular internet resources. > > > > *(https://krebsonsecurity.com/2019/12/the-great-50m-african-ip-address-heist/ > ).* > > > > With this, a question must be asked: Did Ernest consider Africa's best > interest at heart while he was committing such atrocities? It is also > said that he used his connections in AFRINIC to change the ownership > databases and transfer them into offshore accounts in Kenya and even the > United States. He also made a fortune out of these stolen IPv4 resources > due to his clients in Ugandan, and even American, shell companies > > *(https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html > ),* > > > > > 2. AFRINIC has also been consumed by racism when the past CEO Adiel > Akplogan, argued there was a race-related conspiracy to take over the > organization, in addition to constant bullying and language discrimination > between the French-speaking and the English-speaking countries. > > > > *https://www.theregister.com/2019/12/17/another_afrinic_scandal/ > * > > > > 3. At present, while disciplinary measures have been made, the promise of > a new culture made by current CEO, Eddy Kayihura, is nowhere to be found *(https://www.theregister.com/2020/02/24/afrinic_new_ceo/ > )*.Corruption is > still rampant with their questionable financial statements, and with their > frozen assets, this proves to be a hindrance to the operations of AFRINIC > now and in the future. > > > > 4. As for the AFRINIC board ? this is an entire chapter that is almost > becoming a joke - , there have been several recent cases of power abuse, > which have completely violated the PDP's governing documents and its > bottom-up process. Mid-appeals, there were consecutive questionable > resignations of two members of the appeal committee, which were followed by > the board's decision to suspend the appeals and then revoke the existing > Appeal Committee Terms of Reference for replacement, which has resulted in > the unprecedented and recent dissolution of the appeal committee. > > > > *https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/012403.html > * > > > > *https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/012340.html > * > > > > *https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/013494.html > * > > > > 5. Another recent violation of the PDP's bottom up process was the board's > refusal to ratify the policy draft proposal "Board Prerogatives on the > PDP" -AFPUB-2020-GEN-004-DRAFT02 ,which has reached the community > consensus and was sent to the board for ratification. > > > > *https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/013602.html > * > > > > 6. Moreover, AFRINIC has issued 450 987 IPv4/24s. It should be noted that > the vast majority of the IPv4 issued is coming from South Africa (105511 > /24s) and Egypt (94360 /24s). The membership size, which currently stands > at 1930 members, clearly demonstrates a total failure of outreach, while > the IPv4 still in stock (1 756 888) demonstrates a total failure of IP > addresses distribution. > > > > Whether AFRINIC doesn?t properly educate its members on how to request > space or doesn?t have reasonable prices that encourage the members to > request space, both indicate that there is a failure of AFRINIC?s > management and its board. > > > > *https://stats.afrinic.net/ipv4/ * > > > > *https://stats.afrinic.net/ipv4/exhaustion/ipv4_pool > * > > > > 7. Additionally, for your consideration, please take the time to look at > this document: > > > > *https://afrinic.net/finance/2021 * > > > > There are numerous things that are worth discussing. The HR expenditures > is about 3,000,000 USD for a 50-member staff - which gives us the > impression that they are paid 60,000 USD a year. According to Mauritian > labor statistics, it is seen that an average Mauritian is paid 12,000 USD. > It is implied that AFRINIC's salary package is almost 5-times of the > Mauritian average. This is seen as living lavishly. > > > > With the issues above, obviously Afrinic is in a real mess clouded with > various unethical issues. These issues are now becoming a daily affair, > affecting the foundation in which the registry was built. > > > > The question is how did we get to this and where do u where go from here. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Taiwo O > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eddy at afrinic.net Fri Aug 13 16:53:37 2021 From: eddy at afrinic.net (Eddy Kayihura) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2021 20:53:37 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: Update on court proceedings References: Message-ID: <22778195-B28A-4874-9577-2E053171424C@afrinic.net> Dear Community, Please see a message that was shared with members earlier. Kind regards, Eddy Begin forwarded message: > From: Eddy Kayihura > Date: 13 August 2021 at 20:50:23 GMT+4 > To: AfriNIC Discuss > Subject: Update on court proceedings > > ? > Dear Members, > > The matter with regards to our variation application was called before the court today. The Honorable Judge did not accede to our request and was of the view that the application was procedurally incorrect and should have been entered differently. > > In view of the urgency, we had attempted a special procedure to have the order varied. Unfortunately, the court ordered that we follow a different procedure. > > As communicated previously, we understand and appreciate the processes the court needs to adhere to and our legal team is considering all possible avenues. We will keep you updated on the matter. > > Next week our team will invite you for different members meetings to elaborate more on the business continuity options. > > Kind regards > > Eddy > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From b.sowers154 at gmail.com Sun Aug 15 03:32:16 2021 From: b.sowers154 at gmail.com (Brian Sowers) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2021 23:32:16 -0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] How to we move from here. Message-ID: I will just add, it appears that AFRINIC is likewise asking the same question of ?How do we move from here,? following its ineffectiveness at court yesterday. I hope that AFRINIC?s legal team is working pro bono. We all know that legal fees add up quickly and the whole ?get what you pay for? would also help to explain the procedurally incorrect application. Or perhaps, AFRINIC is still attempting to buy time to build a stronger case. Who knows? Either way the community is left twiddling it?s thumbs in anticipation and AFRINIC?s short term budget continues to dwindle. -Brian From rfg at tristatelogic.com Mon Aug 16 00:43:14 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2021 17:43:14 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Famous Last Words Message-ID: <59843.1629074594@segfault.tristatelogic.com> https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/2014-minutes/20141123-minutes.pdf "The Legal Counsel informed the Board that AFRINIC can't withhold a genuine request for IP allocations, it has to allocate, and if later it gets evidence that the application was fraudulent, supported by evidence collected, then it will be able to recover the resources as per the RSA." I don't want to pre-judge the situation, but it would appear now, with 20/20 hindsight, that Ashok may have been rather overly-optimistic when it came to the notion of recovering resources "as per the RSA." Regards, rfg From rfg at tristatelogic.com Mon Aug 16 01:40:03 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2021 18:40:03 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Multinational ISPs Message-ID: <60047.1629078003@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Some ISP companies are truly multinational in scope. Take this one, for example, which apparently operates in no fewer that 243 different countries: https://www.ripe.net/membership/indices/data/cn.yunwaiheng.html (Note that at present, the DNS root zone only contains 248 two-letter ccTLDs. But I guess that the above company has elected to spurn potential customers in, for example, Ascension Island - .AC, together with any and all residents of and enterprises within the former Soviet Union - .SU.) Regards, rfg From geier at geier.ne.tz Mon Aug 16 05:42:01 2021 From: geier at geier.ne.tz (Frank Habicht) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2021 08:42:01 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Multinational ISPs In-Reply-To: <60047.1629078003@segfault.tristatelogic.com> References: <60047.1629078003@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: <6ec73919-72a4-bcc9-157a-8efcfa7a79d2@geier.ne.tz> Ronald, just to confirm, are you talking about organisation "ORG-HLta1-RIPE" - per RIPE DB ? [1] The one that has 185.2.48.0/22 and 178.236.224.0/20 from RIPE? [2] Both of which have the same maintainer for their route objects - "mnt-routes: hk-larus-1-mnt" which appears to be located in "Flat B5,11/F,TML Tower, No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan, HKSAR" [3] You're talking of that same organisation? Greetings, Frank [1] organisation: ORG-HLta1-RIPE org-name: Wu Han YunWaiHeng information Technology, Co,Ltd. country: CN org-type: LIR address: Esdoorlaan 656 address: 9741MH address: Groningen address: NETHERLANDS phone: +31507200036 fax-no: +31507200036 e-mail: tech at outsideheaven.com abuse-c: OHS20-RIPE mnt-ref: RIPE-NCC-HM-MNT mnt-ref: OH-MNT mnt-by: RIPE-NCC-HM-MNT mnt-by: OH-MNT created: 2010-06-11T10:03:32Z last-modified: 2020-12-16T13:13:16Z source: RIPE [2] inetnum: 185.2.48.0 - 185.2.51.255 netname: CN-YUNWAIHENG-20120917 country: NL org: ORG-HLta1-RIPE admin-c: OHS18-RIPE tech-c: OHS18-RIPE status: ALLOCATED PA notify: info at outsideheaven.com mnt-by: RIPE-NCC-HM-MNT mnt-by: OH-MNT mnt-lower: hk-larus-1-mnt mnt-routes: hk-larus-1-mnt mnt-domains: OH-MNT created: 2012-09-17T12:21:43Z last-modified: 2017-11-05T22:05:21Z source: RIPE inetnum: 178.236.224.0 - 178.236.239.255 netname: CN-YUNWAIHENG-20100616 country: FR org: ORG-HLta1-RIPE admin-c: OHS18-RIPE tech-c: OHS18-RIPE status: ALLOCATED PA notify: abuse at outsideheaven.com notify: abuse at outsideheaven.com mnt-by: RIPE-NCC-HM-MNT mnt-by: OH-MNT mnt-lower: hk-larus-1-mnt mnt-domains: OH-MNT mnt-routes: hk-larus-1-mnt mnt-routes: IPTP created: 2010-06-16T09:27:45Z last-modified: 2017-11-05T22:04:36Z source: RIPE [3] mntner: hk-larus-1-mnt descr: Startup maintainer auth: MD5-PW # Filtered admin-c: LDC282-RIPE tech-c: LDC282-RIPE upd-to: d.hilario at laruscloudservice.net auth: SSO # Filtered auth: SSO # Filtered mnt-by: hk-larus-1-mnt created: 2017-01-24T09:49:30Z last-modified: 2017-09-30T09:39:02Z source: RIPE # Filtered role: Larus DB contacts address: Flat B5,11/F,TML Tower, No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan, HKSAR e-mail: info at laruscloudservice.net admin-c: DH6786-RIPE nic-hdl: LDC282-RIPE mnt-by: hk-larus-1-mnt created: 2017-08-28T04:04:01Z last-modified: 2017-08-28T04:04:01Z source: RIPE On 16/08/2021 04:40, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: > Some ISP companies are truly multinational in scope. Take this one, for > example, which apparently operates in no fewer that 243 different countries: > > https://www.ripe.net/membership/indices/data/cn.yunwaiheng.html > > (Note that at present, the DNS root zone only contains 248 two-letter > ccTLDs. But I guess that the above company has elected to spurn potential > customers in, for example, Ascension Island - .AC, together with any and > all residents of and enterprises within the former Soviet Union - .SU.) > > > Regards, > rfg > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > From rfg at tristatelogic.com Mon Aug 16 19:39:01 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2021 12:39:01 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Multinational ISPs In-Reply-To: <6ec73919-72a4-bcc9-157a-8efcfa7a79d2@geier.ne.tz> Message-ID: <71298.1629142741@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In message <6ec73919-72a4-bcc9-157a-8efcfa7a79d2 at geier.ne.tz>, Frank Habicht wrote: >just to confirm, > >are you talking about organisation "ORG-HLta1-RIPE" - per RIPE DB ? [1] Yes. >The one that has 185.2.48.0/22 and 178.236.224.0/20 from RIPE? [2] Yes, at present. (Historically, there was rather more to it than that.) It would seem that the company in question had the intention, starting even from many years ago, to actually locate equipment and Internet infrastructure in no fewer than 243 different countries. Quite impressive ambitions! I wonder how that worked out. Regards, rfg From abscoco at gmail.com Tue Aug 17 09:31:35 2021 From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain Baya) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2021 10:31:35 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Multinational ISPs In-Reply-To: <71298.1629142741@segfault.tristatelogic.com> References: <6ec73919-72a4-bcc9-157a-8efcfa7a79d2@geier.ne.tz> <71298.1629142741@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: Dear AfriNIC's Community, Hope this email finds you in good health. Please see my comments below, inline... Le lun. 16 ao?t 2021 ? 8:39 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette a ?crit : > In message <6ec73919-72a4-bcc9-157a-8efcfa7a79d2 at geier.ne.tz>, > Frank Habicht wrote: > > >just to confirm, > > > >are you talking about organisation "ORG-HLta1-RIPE" - per RIPE DB ? [1] > > Yes. > > >The one that has 185.2.48.0/22 and 178.236.224.0/20 from RIPE? [2] > > Yes, at present. (Historically, there was rather more to it than that.) > > Hi Ronald, Thanks for sharing these facts, brother. > It would seem that the company in question had the intention, starting > even from many years ago, to actually locate equipment and Internet > infrastructure in no fewer than 243 different countries. > > Quite impressive ambitions! > > ...of course: their right! if global LIR [1] So i expect them, at least, to: ?~/ ? simply comply to each RIR's CPM; ? use the INRs they hold in each respective RIR's service region; as roughly recommended by RFC7020 [1]. ?~\ __ [1]: ~?~ [...] In cases where LIRs span multiple regions, those LIRs have established relationships with multiple RIRs. [...] ~?~ ...also, to build real networks within all these RIR's service regions. ...again, as an obvious *global* LIR ;-) Why not simply go for a global policy [2]? __ [2]: Shalom, --sb. > I wonder how that worked out. > > > Regards, > rfg > > [...] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Tue Aug 17 17:44:42 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2021 20:44:42 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: References: <00000000000032bb7605c94bf354@google.com> Message-ID: Dear Internet Community, You are probably aware that AFRINIC, the Regional Internet Registry for Africa, is involved in ongoing litigation, where the plaintiff has sought to have AFRINIC?s bank accounts frozen. In today?s connected world, it is easy to abstract the Internet into simply moving bits and bytes, and forget that there are real people that work hard at building, maintaining and providing support for the systems that you, and the Internet, need to continue working and engaging. The litigation has made it difficult for AFRINIC to meet its financial obligations. Part of these expenses are salaries for the AFRINIC team, who are resolutely working through this difficult period. Whilst we recognise that the legal system has to complete its important process, ?our colleagues still need to survive? during one of the worst pandemics in memory. As an operational entity, that is core to a functioning Internet, AFRINIC still has financial obligations that it must meet to its suppliers. *AF-IX*, in collaboration with our partners, are therefore embarking on a *fund-raising exercise* to help keep AFRINIC?s core functions and services running for the next three months. As a broader community, we are dependent on this registry, whose service of allocating and registering Internet Number Resources (IPv4, IPv6 and ASN) has enabled communication for the development and growth of the Internet In the African region. *We invite you to be part of the community of supporters to ensure that AFRINIC can continue to play the vital role it has, for the sustainable digital growth in Africa.* *You can choose to donate any amount via the URL below where you will find all different options. The funds collected will be used to support the team by ensuring the core functions of AFRINIC continue without risk.* *DONATE TO KEEP AFRINIC UP BY CLICKING THIS LINK;* *https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 * *The AF-IX is ably supported in this initiative by the below partners; * Technology Service Providers of *Kenya* ? *TESPOK* *Tanzania* ISP Association ? *TISPA* *Angola* ISP Association ? *AAPSI* Internet Exchange Point of *Nigeria* ? *IXPN* For additional information, please feel free to contact us, or any of our partners through the following email addresses below: *info at af-ix.net | tespok at tespok.co.ke | secretariat at tispa.or.tz | secretariado at aapsi.og.ao | info at ixp.net.ng * *For Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), Please visit the Sites Below For Details;* *TESPOK* = https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 *AF-IX* = https://www.af-ix.net/news/2021/08/afrinic-fundraising-campaign *TISPA* = https://tispa.or.tz/fundraising/afrinic *ISPA-Angola* = https://www.aapsi.og.ao/noticia/fundraising-for-afrinic *IXPN* = https://ixp.net.ng/news/afrinic-fundraising We look forward to your kind support. Cheers, *Noah * *TISPA* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dewole at tinitop.com Tue Aug 17 18:02:27 2021 From: dewole at tinitop.com (Dewole Ajao) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2021 19:02:27 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: References: <00000000000032bb7605c94bf354@google.com> Message-ID: This is a very good initiative. Can the organizers look at making this more like a crowdsourced loan? Is this something that's allowable? That way, AFRINIC is given interest free loans and then we can figure out how to repay the loans in the future. For example, I could opt to pay my 2022 and 2023 membership fees in advance via this fund (if it can be made official). Meanwhile, someone here is asking if an initiative can be launched to blackhole traffic from all prefixes globally owned by the people trying to force the registry to its knees by starving it of funds? Regards, Dewole. On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 6:47 PM Noah wrote: > Dear Internet Community, > > You are probably aware that AFRINIC, the Regional Internet Registry for > Africa, is involved in ongoing litigation, where the plaintiff has sought > to have AFRINIC?s bank accounts frozen. In today?s connected world, it is > easy to abstract the Internet into simply moving bits and bytes, and forget > that there are real people that work hard at building, maintaining and > providing support for the systems that you, and the Internet, need to > continue working and engaging. > > The litigation has made it difficult for AFRINIC to meet its financial > obligations. Part of these expenses are salaries for the AFRINIC team, who > are resolutely working through this difficult period. Whilst we recognise > that the legal system has to complete its important process, ?our > colleagues still need to survive? during one of the worst pandemics in > memory. As an operational entity, that is core to a functioning Internet, > AFRINIC still has financial obligations that it must meet to its suppliers. > > *AF-IX*, in collaboration with our partners, are therefore embarking on a *fund-raising > exercise* to help keep AFRINIC?s core functions and services running for > the next three months. As a broader community, we are dependent on this > registry, whose service of allocating and registering Internet Number > Resources (IPv4, IPv6 and ASN) has enabled communication for the > development and growth of the Internet In the African region. > > > *We invite you to be part of the community of supporters to ensure that > AFRINIC can continue to play the vital role it has, for the sustainable > digital growth in Africa.* > > *You can choose to donate any amount via the URL below where you will find > all different options. The funds collected will be used to support the > team by ensuring the core functions of AFRINIC continue without risk.* > *DONATE TO KEEP AFRINIC UP BY CLICKING THIS LINK;* *https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 > * > > > *The AF-IX is ably supported in this initiative by the below partners; * > Technology Service Providers of *Kenya* ? *TESPOK* > *Tanzania* ISP Association ? *TISPA* > *Angola* ISP Association ? *AAPSI* > Internet Exchange Point of *Nigeria* ? *IXPN* > > For additional information, please feel free to contact us, or any of our > partners through the following email addresses below: > > *info at af-ix.net | tespok at tespok.co.ke > | secretariat at tispa.or.tz > | secretariado at aapsi.og.ao > | info at ixp.net.ng * > > > *For Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), Please visit the Sites Below For > Details;* > > > *TESPOK* = https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 > > *AF-IX* = https://www.af-ix.net/news/2021/08/afrinic-fundraising-campaign > > *TISPA* = https://tispa.or.tz/fundraising/afrinic > > *ISPA-Angola* = https://www.aapsi.og.ao/noticia/fundraising-for-afrinic > > *IXPN* = https://ixp.net.ng/news/afrinic-fundraising > > > > We look forward to your kind support. > > > Cheers, > *Noah * > *TISPA* > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sami.salih at outlook.com Tue Aug 17 18:08:34 2021 From: sami.salih at outlook.com (Sami Salih) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2021 18:08:34 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: References: <00000000000032bb7605c94bf354@google.com> Message-ID: A good citizen is a blessing to society. Let us show the world that we deserve to host and operate our own Registry. Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Dewole Ajao Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2021 9:02:27 PM To: Noah Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING This is a very good initiative. Can the organizers look at making this more like a crowdsourced loan? Is this something that's allowable? That way, AFRINIC is given interest free loans and then we can figure out how to repay the loans in the future. For example, I could opt to pay my 2022 and 2023 membership fees in advance via this fund (if it can be made official). Meanwhile, someone here is asking if an initiative can be launched to blackhole traffic from all prefixes globally owned by the people trying to force the registry to its knees by starving it of funds? Regards, Dewole. On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 6:47 PM Noah > wrote: Dear Internet Community, You are probably aware that AFRINIC, the Regional Internet Registry for Africa, is involved in ongoing litigation, where the plaintiff has sought to have AFRINIC?s bank accounts frozen. In today?s connected world, it is easy to abstract the Internet into simply moving bits and bytes, and forget that there are real people that work hard at building, maintaining and providing support for the systems that you, and the Internet, need to continue working and engaging. The litigation has made it difficult for AFRINIC to meet its financial obligations. Part of these expenses are salaries for the AFRINIC team, who are resolutely working through this difficult period. Whilst we recognise that the legal system has to complete its important process, ?our colleagues still need to survive? during one of the worst pandemics in memory. As an operational entity, that is core to a functioning Internet, AFRINIC still has financial obligations that it must meet to its suppliers. AF-IX, in collaboration with our partners, are therefore embarking on a fund-raising exercise to help keep AFRINIC?s core functions and services running for the next three months. As a broader community, we are dependent on this registry, whose service of allocating and registering Internet Number Resources (IPv4, IPv6 and ASN) has enabled communication for the development and growth of the Internet In the African region. We invite you to be part of the community of supporters to ensure that AFRINIC can continue to play the vital role it has, for the sustainable digital growth in Africa. You can choose to donate any amount via the URL below where you will find all different options. The funds collected will be used to support the team by ensuring the core functions of AFRINIC continue without risk. DONATE TO KEEP AFRINIC UP BY CLICKING THIS LINK; https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 The AF-IX is ably supported in this initiative by the below partners; Technology Service Providers of Kenya ? TESPOK Tanzania ISP Association ? TISPA Angola ISP Association ? AAPSI Internet Exchange Point of Nigeria ? IXPN For additional information, please feel free to contact us, or any of our partners through the following email addresses below: info at af-ix.net | tespok at tespok.co.ke | secretariat at tispa.or.tz | secretariado at aapsi.og.ao | info at ixp.net.ng For Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), Please visit the Sites Below For Details; TESPOK = https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 AF-IX = https://www.af-ix.net/news/2021/08/afrinic-fundraising-campaign TISPA = https://tispa.or.tz/fundraising/afrinic ISPA-Angola = https://www.aapsi.og.ao/noticia/fundraising-for-afrinic IXPN = https://ixp.net.ng/news/afrinic-fundraising We look forward to your kind support. Cheers, Noah TISPA _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mamattah.raymond at gmail.com Tue Aug 17 18:30:09 2021 From: mamattah.raymond at gmail.com (Raymond Mamattah) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2021 18:30:09 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: References: <00000000000032bb7605c94bf354@google.com> Message-ID: This is a great idea and initiative. AFRINIC must survive in these trying times. Raymond Mamattah [image: linkedin] [image: facebook] [image: skype] [image: twitter] Accra, Ghana On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 5:45 PM Noah wrote: > Dear Internet Community, > > You are probably aware that AFRINIC, the Regional Internet Registry for > Africa, is involved in ongoing litigation, where the plaintiff has sought > to have AFRINIC?s bank accounts frozen. In today?s connected world, it is > easy to abstract the Internet into simply moving bits and bytes, and forget > that there are real people that work hard at building, maintaining and > providing support for the systems that you, and the Internet, need to > continue working and engaging. > > The litigation has made it difficult for AFRINIC to meet its financial > obligations. Part of these expenses are salaries for the AFRINIC team, who > are resolutely working through this difficult period. Whilst we recognise > that the legal system has to complete its important process, ?our > colleagues still need to survive? during one of the worst pandemics in > memory. As an operational entity, that is core to a functioning Internet, > AFRINIC still has financial obligations that it must meet to its suppliers. > > *AF-IX*, in collaboration with our partners, are therefore embarking on a *fund-raising > exercise* to help keep AFRINIC?s core functions and services running for > the next three months. As a broader community, we are dependent on this > registry, whose service of allocating and registering Internet Number > Resources (IPv4, IPv6 and ASN) has enabled communication for the > development and growth of the Internet In the African region. > > > *We invite you to be part of the community of supporters to ensure that > AFRINIC can continue to play the vital role it has, for the sustainable > digital growth in Africa.* > > *You can choose to donate any amount via the URL below where you will find > all different options. The funds collected will be used to support the > team by ensuring the core functions of AFRINIC continue without risk.* > *DONATE TO KEEP AFRINIC UP BY CLICKING THIS LINK;* *https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 > * > > > *The AF-IX is ably supported in this initiative by the below partners; * > Technology Service Providers of *Kenya* ? *TESPOK* > *Tanzania* ISP Association ? *TISPA* > *Angola* ISP Association ? *AAPSI* > Internet Exchange Point of *Nigeria* ? *IXPN* > > For additional information, please feel free to contact us, or any of our > partners through the following email addresses below: > > *info at af-ix.net | tespok at tespok.co.ke > | secretariat at tispa.or.tz > | secretariado at aapsi.og.ao > | info at ixp.net.ng * > > > *For Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), Please visit the Sites Below For > Details;* > > > *TESPOK* = https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 > > *AF-IX* = https://www.af-ix.net/news/2021/08/afrinic-fundraising-campaign > > *TISPA* = https://tispa.or.tz/fundraising/afrinic > > *ISPA-Angola* = https://www.aapsi.og.ao/noticia/fundraising-for-afrinic > > *IXPN* = https://ixp.net.ng/news/afrinic-fundraising > > > > We look forward to your kind support. > > > Cheers, > *Noah * > *TISPA* > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ceo at wacren.net Tue Aug 17 20:03:03 2021 From: ceo at wacren.net (WACREN CEO) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2021 20:03:03 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: References: <00000000000032bb7605c94bf354@google.com> Message-ID: Dear All, I think that's indeed a great idea. And my organisation is ready to take the risk of paying in advance 10 years of annual fees. And I am ready to contribute personally in addition to that. However, I would suggest another recipient of our contributions, namely one of our Af* organisations. For example, I am thinking of AfNOG that has nurtured many of our Af*; it could be any of the other registered Af* organisations. Merci. Boubakar On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 6:09 PM Sami Salih wrote: > A good citizen is a blessing to society. > > Let us show the world that we deserve to host and operate our own Registry. > > > Get Outlook for Android > ------------------------------ > *From:* Dewole Ajao > *Sent:* Tuesday, August 17, 2021 9:02:27 PM > *To:* Noah > *Cc:* General Discussions of AFRINIC > *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP > AFRINIC RUNNING > > This is a very good initiative. Can the organizers look at making this > more like a crowdsourced loan? Is this something that's allowable? That > way, AFRINIC is given interest free loans and then we can figure out how to > repay the loans in the future. > > For example, I could opt to pay my 2022 and 2023 membership fees in > advance via this fund (if it can be made official). > > Meanwhile, someone here is asking if an initiative can be launched to > blackhole traffic from all prefixes globally owned by the people trying to > force the registry to its knees by starving it of funds? > > Regards, > Dewole. > > On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 6:47 PM Noah wrote: > > Dear Internet Community, > > You are probably aware that AFRINIC, the Regional Internet Registry for > Africa, is involved in ongoing litigation, where the plaintiff has sought > to have AFRINIC?s bank accounts frozen. In today?s connected world, it is > easy to abstract the Internet into simply moving bits and bytes, and forget > that there are real people that work hard at building, maintaining and > providing support for the systems that you, and the Internet, need to > continue working and engaging. > > The litigation has made it difficult for AFRINIC to meet its financial > obligations. Part of these expenses are salaries for the AFRINIC team, who > are resolutely working through this difficult period. Whilst we recognise > that the legal system has to complete its important process, ?our > colleagues still need to survive? during one of the worst pandemics in > memory. As an operational entity, that is core to a functioning Internet, > AFRINIC still has financial obligations that it must meet to its suppliers. > > *AF-IX*, in collaboration with our partners, are therefore embarking on a * > fund-raising exercise* to help keep AFRINIC?s core functions and services > running for the next three months. As a broader community, we are dependent > on this registry, whose service of allocating and registering Internet > Number Resources (IPv4, IPv6 and ASN) has enabled communication for the > development and growth of the Internet In the African region. > > > *We invite you to be part of the community of supporters to ensure that > AFRINIC can continue to play the vital role it has, for the sustainable > digital growth in Africa. * > > *You can choose to donate any amount via the URL below where you will find > all different options. The funds collected will be used to support the > team by ensuring the core functions of AFRINIC continue without risk. * > *DONATE TO KEEP AFRINIC UP BY CLICKING THIS LINK;* *https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 > * > > > *The AF-IX is ably supported in this initiative by the below partners; * > Technology Service Providers of *Kenya* ? *TESPOK* > *Tanzania* ISP Association ? *TISPA* > *Angola* ISP Association ? *AAPSI* > Internet Exchange Point of *Nigeria* ? *IXPN* > > For additional information, please feel free to contact us, or any of our > partners through the following email addresses below: > > *info at af-ix.net | tespok at tespok.co.ke > | secretariat at tispa.or.tz > | secretariado at aapsi.og.ao > | info at ixp.net.ng * > > > *For Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), Please visit the Sites Below For > Details; * > > > *TESPOK* = https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 > > *AF-IX* = https://www.af-ix.net/news/2021/08/afrinic-fundraising-campaign > > *TISPA* = https://tispa.or.tz/fundraising/afrinic > > *ISPA-Angola* = https://www.aapsi.og.ao/noticia/fundraising-for-afrinic > > *IXPN* = https://ixp.net.ng/news/afrinic-fundraising > > > > We look forward to your kind support. > > > Cheers, > *Noah * > *TISPA* > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -- CEO/Directeur G?n?ral, WACREN Web: http://www.wacren.net ***Keep it simple, as simple as possible, but not simpler. (A. Einstein)*** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hrobert at africacert.org Tue Aug 17 20:27:12 2021 From: hrobert at africacert.org (Jean-Robert Hountomey) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2021 16:27:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: References: <00000000000032bb7605c94bf354@google.com> Message-ID: <1629232032.32754311@apps.rackspace.com> Accra, 17th August 2021, Dear Colleagues, We write to support the initiative. Respectfully. Jean-Robert Hountomey AfricaCERT. -----Original Message----- From: "Noah" Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2021 1:44pm To: "General Discussions of AFRINIC" Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING Dear Internet Community, You are probably aware that AFRINIC, the Regional Internet Registry for Africa, is involved in ongoing litigation, where the plaintiff has sought to have AFRINIC?s bank accounts frozen. In today?s connected world, it is easy to abstract the Internet into simply moving bits and bytes, and forget that there are real people that work hard at building, maintaining and providing support for the systems that you, and the Internet, need to continue working and engaging. The litigation has made it difficult for AFRINIC to meet its financial obligations. Part of these expenses are salaries for the AFRINIC team, who are resolutely working through this difficult period. Whilst we recognise that the legal system has to complete its important process, ?our colleagues still need to survive? during one of the worst pandemics in memory. As an operational entity, that is core to a functioning Internet, AFRINIC still has financial obligations that it must meet to its suppliers. AF-IX, in collaboration with our partners, are therefore embarking on a fund-raising exercise to help keep AFRINIC?s core functions and services running for the next three months. As a broader community, we are dependent on this registry, whose service of allocating and registering Internet Number Resources (IPv4, IPv6 and ASN) has enabled communication for the development and growth of the Internet In the African region. We invite you to be part of the community of supporters to ensure that AFRINIC can continue to play the vital role it has, for the sustainable digital growth in Africa. You can choose to donate any amount via the URL below where you will find all different options. The funds collected will be used to support the team by ensuring the core functions of AFRINIC continue without risk. DONATE TO KEEP AFRINIC UP BY CLICKING THIS LINK; [ https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 ]( https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 ) The AF-IX is ably supported in this initiative by the below partners; Technology Service Providers of Kenya ? TESPOK Tanzania ISP Association ? TISPA Angola ISP Association ? AAPSI Internet Exchange Point of Nigeria ? IXPN For additional information, please feel free to contact us, or any of our partners through the following email addresses below: [ info at af-ix.net ]( mailto:info at af-ix.net ) | [ tespok at tespok.co.ke ]( mailto:tespok at tespok.co.ke ) | [ secretariat at tispa.or.tz ]( mailto:secretariat at tispa.or.tz ) | [ secretariado at aapsi.og.ao ]( mailto:secretariado at aapsi.og.ao ) | [ info at ixp.net.ng ]( mailto:info at ixp.net.ng ) For Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), Please visit the Sites Below For Details; TESPOK = [ https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 ]( https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 ) AF-IX = [ https://www.af-ix.net/news/2021/08/afrinic-fundraising-campaign ]( https://www.af-ix.net/news/2021/08/afrinic-fundraising-campaign ) TISPA = [ https://tispa.or.tz/fundraising/afrinic ]( https://tispa.or.tz/fundraising/afrinic ) ISPA-Angola = [ https://www.aapsi.og.ao/noticia/fundraising-for-afrinic ]( https://www.aapsi.og.ao/noticia/fundraising-for-afrinic ) IXPN = [ https://ixp.net.ng/news/afrinic-fundraising ]( https://ixp.net.ng/news/afrinic-fundraising ) We look forward to your kind support. Cheers, Noah TISPA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ubah.tonyiyke at gmail.com Tue Aug 17 21:13:53 2021 From: ubah.tonyiyke at gmail.com (Anthony Ubah) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2021 17:13:53 -0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: References: <00000000000032bb7605c94bf354@google.com> Message-ID: Great idea ?? On Tue, Aug 17, 2021, 2:05 PM Dewole Ajao wrote: > This is a very good initiative. Can the organizers look at making this > more like a crowdsourced loan? Is this something that's allowable? That > way, AFRINIC is given interest free loans and then we can figure out how to > repay the loans in the future. > > For example, I could opt to pay my 2022 and 2023 membership fees in > advance via this fund (if it can be made official). > > Meanwhile, someone here is asking if an initiative can be launched to > blackhole traffic from all prefixes globally owned by the people trying to > force the registry to its knees by starving it of funds? > > Regards, > Dewole. > > On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 6:47 PM Noah wrote: > >> Dear Internet Community, >> >> You are probably aware that AFRINIC, the Regional Internet Registry for >> Africa, is involved in ongoing litigation, where the plaintiff has sought >> to have AFRINIC?s bank accounts frozen. In today?s connected world, it is >> easy to abstract the Internet into simply moving bits and bytes, and forget >> that there are real people that work hard at building, maintaining and >> providing support for the systems that you, and the Internet, need to >> continue working and engaging. >> >> The litigation has made it difficult for AFRINIC to meet its financial >> obligations. Part of these expenses are salaries for the AFRINIC team, who >> are resolutely working through this difficult period. Whilst we recognise >> that the legal system has to complete its important process, ?our >> colleagues still need to survive? during one of the worst pandemics in >> memory. As an operational entity, that is core to a functioning Internet, >> AFRINIC still has financial obligations that it must meet to its suppliers. >> >> *AF-IX*, in collaboration with our partners, are therefore embarking on >> a *fund-raising exercise* to help keep AFRINIC?s core functions and >> services running for the next three months. As a broader community, we are >> dependent on this registry, whose service of allocating and registering >> Internet Number Resources (IPv4, IPv6 and ASN) has enabled communication >> for the development and growth of the Internet In the African region. >> >> >> *We invite you to be part of the community of supporters to ensure that >> AFRINIC can continue to play the vital role it has, for the sustainable >> digital growth in Africa.* >> >> *You can choose to donate any amount via the URL below where you will >> find all different options. The funds collected will be used to support >> the team by ensuring the core functions of AFRINIC continue without risk.* >> *DONATE TO KEEP AFRINIC UP BY CLICKING THIS LINK;* *https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 >> * >> >> >> *The AF-IX is ably supported in this initiative by the below partners; * >> Technology Service Providers of *Kenya* ? *TESPOK* >> *Tanzania* ISP Association ? *TISPA* >> *Angola* ISP Association ? *AAPSI* >> Internet Exchange Point of *Nigeria* ? *IXPN* >> >> For additional information, please feel free to contact us, or any of our >> partners through the following email addresses below: >> >> *info at af-ix.net | tespok at tespok.co.ke >> | secretariat at tispa.or.tz >> | secretariado at aapsi.og.ao >> | info at ixp.net.ng * >> >> >> *For Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), Please visit the Sites Below For >> Details;* >> >> >> *TESPOK* = https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 >> >> *AF-IX* = https://www.af-ix.net/news/2021/08/afrinic-fundraising-campaign >> >> *TISPA* = https://tispa.or.tz/fundraising/afrinic >> >> *ISPA-Angola* = https://www.aapsi.og.ao/noticia/fundraising-for-afrinic >> >> *IXPN* = https://ixp.net.ng/news/afrinic-fundraising >> >> >> >> We look forward to your kind support. >> >> >> Cheers, >> *Noah * >> *TISPA* >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mohamedibrahim at swin.edu.au Wed Aug 18 01:57:32 2021 From: mohamedibrahim at swin.edu.au (Mohamed Ibrahim) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 01:57:32 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: References: <00000000000032bb7605c94bf354@google.com> Message-ID: It is not about paying or not? I think it is also about how to avoid similar problems in the future. We live in a rules-based world and I want to know how did this happen? I respect courts and rule of law... there are higher courts and even international courts if local/national courts are not doing the right thing. Regards, Mohamed ________________________________ From: Sami Salih Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2021 4:08 AM To: Dewole Ajao ; Noah Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING A good citizen is a blessing to society. Let us show the world that we deserve to host and operate our own Registry. Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Dewole Ajao Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2021 9:02:27 PM To: Noah Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING This is a very good initiative. Can the organizers look at making this more like a crowdsourced loan? Is this something that's allowable? That way, AFRINIC is given interest free loans and then we can figure out how to repay the loans in the future. For example, I could opt to pay my 2022 and 2023 membership fees in advance via this fund (if it can be made official). Meanwhile, someone here is asking if an initiative can be launched to blackhole traffic from all prefixes globally owned by the people trying to force the registry to its knees by starving it of funds? Regards, Dewole. On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 6:47 PM Noah > wrote: Dear Internet Community, You are probably aware that AFRINIC, the Regional Internet Registry for Africa, is involved in ongoing litigation, where the plaintiff has sought to have AFRINIC?s bank accounts frozen. In today?s connected world, it is easy to abstract the Internet into simply moving bits and bytes, and forget that there are real people that work hard at building, maintaining and providing support for the systems that you, and the Internet, need to continue working and engaging. The litigation has made it difficult for AFRINIC to meet its financial obligations. Part of these expenses are salaries for the AFRINIC team, who are resolutely working through this difficult period. Whilst we recognise that the legal system has to complete its important process, ?our colleagues still need to survive? during one of the worst pandemics in memory. As an operational entity, that is core to a functioning Internet, AFRINIC still has financial obligations that it must meet to its suppliers. AF-IX, in collaboration with our partners, are therefore embarking on a fund-raising exercise to help keep AFRINIC?s core functions and services running for the next three months. As a broader community, we are dependent on this registry, whose service of allocating and registering Internet Number Resources (IPv4, IPv6 and ASN) has enabled communication for the development and growth of the Internet In the African region. We invite you to be part of the community of supporters to ensure that AFRINIC can continue to play the vital role it has, for the sustainable digital growth in Africa. You can choose to donate any amount via the URL below where you will find all different options. The funds collected will be used to support the team by ensuring the core functions of AFRINIC continue without risk. DONATE TO KEEP AFRINIC UP BY CLICKING THIS LINK; https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 The AF-IX is ably supported in this initiative by the below partners; Technology Service Providers of Kenya ? TESPOK Tanzania ISP Association ? TISPA Angola ISP Association ? AAPSI Internet Exchange Point of Nigeria ? IXPN For additional information, please feel free to contact us, or any of our partners through the following email addresses below: info at af-ix.net | tespok at tespok.co.ke | secretariat at tispa.or.tz | secretariado at aapsi.og.ao | info at ixp.net.ng For Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), Please visit the Sites Below For Details; TESPOK = https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 AF-IX = https://www.af-ix.net/news/2021/08/afrinic-fundraising-campaign TISPA = https://tispa.or.tz/fundraising/afrinic ISPA-Angola = https://www.aapsi.og.ao/noticia/fundraising-for-afrinic IXPN = https://ixp.net.ng/news/afrinic-fundraising We look forward to your kind support. Cheers, Noah TISPA _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sami.salih at outlook.com Wed Aug 18 02:05:35 2021 From: sami.salih at outlook.com (Sami Salih) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 02:05:35 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: References: <00000000000032bb7605c94bf354@google.com> Message-ID: Salam Mohamed, This thread is exactly about paying (but not not). Other threads are available or you can initiate one about enforcing law!? Please keep this thread as is and avoid it if you are with (not) group. Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Mohamed Ibrahim Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2021, 4:57 AM To: Sami Salih; Dewole Ajao; Noah Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING It is not about paying or not? I think it is also about how to avoid similar problems in the future. We live in a rules-based world and I want to know how did this happen? I respect courts and rule of law... there are higher courts and even international courts if local/national courts are not doing the right thing. Regards, Mohamed ________________________________ From: Sami Salih Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2021 4:08 AM To: Dewole Ajao ; Noah Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING A good citizen is a blessing to society. Let us show the world that we deserve to host and operate our own Registry. Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Dewole Ajao Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2021 9:02:27 PM To: Noah Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING This is a very good initiative. Can the organizers look at making this more like a crowdsourced loan? Is this something that's allowable? That way, AFRINIC is given interest free loans and then we can figure out how to repay the loans in the future. For example, I could opt to pay my 2022 and 2023 membership fees in advance via this fund (if it can be made official). Meanwhile, someone here is asking if an initiative can be launched to blackhole traffic from all prefixes globally owned by the people trying to force the registry to its knees by starving it of funds? Regards, Dewole. On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 6:47 PM Noah > wrote: Dear Internet Community, You are probably aware that AFRINIC, the Regional Internet Registry for Africa, is involved in ongoing litigation, where the plaintiff has sought to have AFRINIC?s bank accounts frozen. In today?s connected world, it is easy to abstract the Internet into simply moving bits and bytes, and forget that there are real people that work hard at building, maintaining and providing support for the systems that you, and the Internet, need to continue working and engaging. The litigation has made it difficult for AFRINIC to meet its financial obligations. Part of these expenses are salaries for the AFRINIC team, who are resolutely working through this difficult period. Whilst we recognise that the legal system has to complete its important process, ?our colleagues still need to survive? during one of the worst pandemics in memory. As an operational entity, that is core to a functioning Internet, AFRINIC still has financial obligations that it must meet to its suppliers. AF-IX, in collaboration with our partners, are therefore embarking on a fund-raising exercise to help keep AFRINIC?s core functions and services running for the next three months. As a broader community, we are dependent on this registry, whose service of allocating and registering Internet Number Resources (IPv4, IPv6 and ASN) has enabled communication for the development and growth of the Internet In the African region. We invite you to be part of the community of supporters to ensure that AFRINIC can continue to play the vital role it has, for the sustainable digital growth in Africa. You can choose to donate any amount via the URL below where you will find all different options. The funds collected will be used to support the team by ensuring the core functions of AFRINIC continue without risk. DONATE TO KEEP AFRINIC UP BY CLICKING THIS LINK; https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 The AF-IX is ably supported in this initiative by the below partners; Technology Service Providers of Kenya ? TESPOK Tanzania ISP Association ? TISPA Angola ISP Association ? AAPSI Internet Exchange Point of Nigeria ? IXPN For additional information, please feel free to contact us, or any of our partners through the following email addresses below: info at af-ix.net | tespok at tespok.co.ke | secretariat at tispa.or.tz | secretariado at aapsi.og.ao | info at ixp.net.ng For Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), Please visit the Sites Below For Details; TESPOK = https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 AF-IX = https://www.af-ix.net/news/2021/08/afrinic-fundraising-campaign TISPA = https://tispa.or.tz/fundraising/afrinic ISPA-Angola = https://www.aapsi.og.ao/noticia/fundraising-for-afrinic IXPN = https://ixp.net.ng/news/afrinic-fundraising We look forward to your kind support. Cheers, Noah TISPA _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com Wed Aug 18 07:17:50 2021 From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 07:17:50 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: References: <00000000000032bb7605c94bf354@google.com> Message-ID: Not being a lawyer ? I would actually like to know the legal position on this ? because here is the way I see this. AfriNIC has a contingent liability on their books of $50m dollars right now ? and a net worth far below that. Incurring any further debt ? with no guarantee of success in the court case ? may be classified as reckless trading. Furthermore ? I would like to know if the directors of AfriNIC have complied with their statutory requirements under section 162 of the act ? which mandates that they call a board meeting to discuss appointing a liquidator or administrator. This part of the law ? I don?t need a lawyer to interpret ? because its pretty crystal clear: 162. Duty of directors on insolvency (1) A director of a company who believes that the company is unable to pay its debts as they fall due shall forthwith call a meeting of the Board to consider whether the Board should appoint a liquidator or an administrator. (2) Where a meeting is called under this section, the Board shall consider whether to appoint a liquidator or an administrator, or to carry on the business of the company. (3) Where ? (a) a director fails to comply with subsection (1); (b) at the time of that failure the company was unable to pay its debts as they fell due; and (c) the company is subsequently placed in liquidation, 118 the Court may, on the application of the liquidator or of a creditor of the company, make an order that the director shall be liable for the whole or any part of any loss suffered by creditors of the company as a result of the company continuing to trade. Since AfriNIC ? has on calls with its members ? openly admitted that they may be unable to service debt and that certain creditors have agreed to payment deferrals etc ? and since there is absolutely no guarantee that sponsorship is going to cover debt ? this is very clear ? and it will be very interesting to see the minutes or the board meeting where this happens. I am also very curious to see the resolutions regarding budget, since if the company is spending outside of budget ? that requires a board resolution ? which has to be published under the transparency rules. There is no way on planet earth that the budget would cover the kinds of legal fees they have been racking up ? so ? how much was the budget expanded ? and what risks are being taken if spending is being incurred and they lose and still have to pay up with the lawyers etc? And how much money is going to be left by the time they finish paying the lawyers even if they win this ? would a settlement not be cheaper at the end of the day? Andrew From: Anthony Ubah Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2021 12:14 AM To: Dewole Ajao Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING Great idea ?? On Tue, Aug 17, 2021, 2:05 PM Dewole Ajao > wrote: This is a very good initiative. Can the organizers look at making this more like a crowdsourced loan? Is this something that's allowable? That way, AFRINIC is given interest free loans and then we can figure out how to repay the loans in the future. For example, I could opt to pay my 2022 and 2023 membership fees in advance via this fund (if it can be made official). Meanwhile, someone here is asking if an initiative can be launched to blackhole traffic from all prefixes globally owned by the people trying to force the registry to its knees by starving it of funds? Regards, Dewole. On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 6:47 PM Noah > wrote: Dear Internet Community, You are probably aware that AFRINIC, the Regional Internet Registry for Africa, is involved in ongoing litigation, where the plaintiff has sought to have AFRINIC?s bank accounts frozen. In today?s connected world, it is easy to abstract the Internet into simply moving bits and bytes, and forget that there are real people that work hard at building, maintaining and providing support for the systems that you, and the Internet, need to continue working and engaging. The litigation has made it difficult for AFRINIC to meet its financial obligations. Part of these expenses are salaries for the AFRINIC team, who are resolutely working through this difficult period. Whilst we recognise that the legal system has to complete its important process, ?our colleagues still need to survive? during one of the worst pandemics in memory. As an operational entity, that is core to a functioning Internet, AFRINIC still has financial obligations that it must meet to its suppliers. AF-IX, in collaboration with our partners, are therefore embarking on a fund-raising exercise to help keep AFRINIC?s core functions and services running for the next three months. As a broader community, we are dependent on this registry, whose service of allocating and registering Internet Number Resources (IPv4, IPv6 and ASN) has enabled communication for the development and growth of the Internet In the African region. We invite you to be part of the community of supporters to ensure that AFRINIC can continue to play the vital role it has, for the sustainable digital growth in Africa. You can choose to donate any amount via the URL below where you will find all different options. The funds collected will be used to support the team by ensuring the core functions of AFRINIC continue without risk. DONATE TO KEEP AFRINIC UP BY CLICKING THIS LINK; https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 The AF-IX is ably supported in this initiative by the below partners; Technology Service Providers of Kenya ? TESPOK Tanzania ISP Association ? TISPA Angola ISP Association ? AAPSI Internet Exchange Point of Nigeria ? IXPN For additional information, please feel free to contact us, or any of our partners through the following email addresses below: info at af-ix.net | tespok at tespok.co.ke | secretariat at tispa.or.tz | secretariado at aapsi.og.ao | info at ixp.net.ng For Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), Please visit the Sites Below For Details; TESPOK = https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 AF-IX = https://www.af-ix.net/news/2021/08/afrinic-fundraising-campaign TISPA = https://tispa.or.tz/fundraising/afrinic ISPA-Angola = https://www.aapsi.og.ao/noticia/fundraising-for-afrinic IXPN = https://ixp.net.ng/news/afrinic-fundraising We look forward to your kind support. Cheers, Noah TISPA _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jcurran at arin.net Wed Aug 18 11:49:21 2021 From: jcurran at arin.net (John Curran) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 11:49:21 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: References: <00000000000032bb7605c94bf354@google.com> Message-ID: On 18 Aug 2021, at 3:17 AM, Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss > wrote: Not being a lawyer ? I would actually like to know the legal position on this ? because here is the way I see this. Good Day Andrew ? I am somewhat confused, as you acknowledge you not a lawyer ? but seek a legal position ? and then decide the best way to obtain such an opinion is to post legal speculation to the Community Discuss mailing list? As you are well aware, legal opinions are obtained by retaining counsel, so I am at loss in your actual intentions in this regard. AfriNIC has a contingent liability on their books of $50m dollars right now ? and a net worth far below that. As it turns out, you might not need a lawyer after all, since your line of reasoning is predicated upon the incorrect statement above. I also am not a lawyer, but can see from the list of legal cases published on the AFRINIC website that the order in question is a "Provisional Attachment Order" ? something that is preliminary in nature and even now remains still to be validated by subsequent actions. Furthermore, validation of such an order would appear to protect availability of funds so that they could be available to pay for an award if such were to ever be issued, i.e. it does not equate with the making of an actual award as you seem to imply in your message. Best wishes, /John John Curran President and CEO American Registry for Internet Numbers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com Wed Aug 18 12:05:56 2021 From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 12:05:56 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: References: <00000000000032bb7605c94bf354@google.com> Message-ID: John, I query where queries may actually get answered ? and since previous emails to the members list have gone unanswered ? here is as good a place as any. The contingent liability stuff ? I actually see sense in this ? however ? that neglects the second part of my question ? regarding section 162 of the companies act ? that has nothing to do with contingent liability. Section 162 of the companies act says ? ?Unable to pay debtors? ? with no qualifications ? hence ? I want to understand 1. If AfriNIC is not bound to section 162 at this point ? why not 2. If AfriNIC is indeed bound to section 162 ? since they are currently unable to service debt at this point directly ? why is there no resolution as required by the companies act in this regard. Section 162 of the act makes no differentiation that I can see about WHY they are unable to service debt ? it says ? Unable to pay as they fall due ? no further qualifications. Hence ? if this isn?t applicable ? I think this community has every right to know why it isn?t ? and if it is ? then this community has every right to know that by what that act says ? the company should be in administration or in the alternatives the directors ? who we elected ? could become personally liable. We are a community ? this is a bottom up organization ? and the community has the right to ask questions ? however hard those questions may be to answer and however much answering those questions may be distasteful to the people who have to answer. Andrew From: John Curran Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2021 2:49 PM To: Andrew Alston Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING On 18 Aug 2021, at 3:17 AM, Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss > wrote: Not being a lawyer ? I would actually like to know the legal position on this ? because here is the way I see this. Good Day Andrew ? I am somewhat confused, as you acknowledge you not a lawyer ? but seek a legal position ? and then decide the best way to obtain such an opinion is to post legal speculation to the Community Discuss mailing list? As you are well aware, legal opinions are obtained by retaining counsel, so I am at loss in your actual intentions in this regard. AfriNIC has a contingent liability on their books of $50m dollars right now ? and a net worth far below that. As it turns out, you might not need a lawyer after all, since your line of reasoning is predicated upon the incorrect statement above. I also am not a lawyer, but can see from the list of legal cases published on the AFRINIC website that the order in question is a "Provisional Attachment Order" ? something that is preliminary in nature and even now remains still to be validated by subsequent actions. Furthermore, validation of such an order would appear to protect availability of funds so that they could be available to pay for an award if such were to ever be issued, i.e. it does not equate with the making of an actual award as you seem to imply in your message. Best wishes, /John John Curran President and CEO American Registry for Internet Numbers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rfg at tristatelogic.com Wed Aug 18 12:22:19 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 05:22:19 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <96413.1629289339@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In message , Andrew Alston wrote: >AfriNIC has a contingent liability on their books of $50m dollars right now ? >and a net worth far below that. > >Incurring any further debt - with no guarantee of success in the court case - >may be classified as reckless trading. Andrew, Being, as you are, human, the odds are exceptionally high that you will eventually and inevitably fall ill and die. Knowing this, have you properly prepared by investing in a casket for yourself? If not, and if you have been spending your money on other things, may we likewise say that you are involved in "reckless trading"? Regards, rfg P.S. Of course, I jest. Your situation, and specifically your inevitable mortality, is not at all comparable to the present situation of AFRINIC. Like it or not, *you* will most certainly die at some point. AFRINIC? Maybe not so much. It follows then that any lack of adequate planning on your part must thus be judged to be a rather worse offense against your heirs and assigns than any similar lack on the part of AFRINIC. AFRINIC may yet possibly not die. You however most certainly will, in the fullness of time, as will I, and also all those who read these words. From adekiossosu at gmail.com Wed Aug 18 12:51:13 2021 From: adekiossosu at gmail.com (Adeki Ossosu) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 05:51:13 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: <96413.1629289339@segfault.tristatelogic.com> References: <96413.1629289339@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: Hello May be we can ask Lu heng for financial aid. Btw congrats SM. Well played. On Wednesday, August 18, 2021, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: > In message eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>, > Andrew Alston wrote: > > >AfriNIC has a contingent liability on their books of $50m dollars right > now ? > >and a net worth far below that. > > > >Incurring any further debt - with no guarantee of success in the court > case - > >may be classified as reckless trading. > > Andrew, > > Being, as you are, human, the odds are exceptionally high that you will > eventually and inevitably fall ill and die. > > Knowing this, have you properly prepared by investing in a casket for > yourself? If not, and if you have been spending your money on other > things, may we likewise say that you are involved in "reckless trading"? > > > Regards, > rfg > > > P.S. Of course, I jest. Your situation, and specifically your inevitable > mortality, is not at all comparable to the present situation of AFRINIC. > Like it or not, *you* will most certainly die at some point. AFRINIC? > Maybe not so much. It follows then that any lack of adequate planning > on your part must thus be judged to be a rather worse offense against your > heirs and assigns than any similar lack on the part of AFRINIC. > > AFRINIC may yet possibly not die. You however most certainly will, in the > fullness of time, as will I, and also all those who read these words. > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 0792DD10-E5CA-4B15-9A6D-0169A2F96E22.jpeg Type: image/jpeg Size: 349627 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jcurran at arin.net Wed Aug 18 13:09:39 2021 From: jcurran at arin.net (John Curran) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 13:09:39 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: References: <00000000000032bb7605c94bf354@google.com> Message-ID: <33E2833C-B36E-481C-8192-818864073504@arin.net> On 18 Aug 2021, at 8:05 AM, Andrew Alston > wrote: John, I query where queries may actually get answered ? and since previous emails to the members list have gone unanswered ? here is as good a place as any. ... We are a community ? this is a bottom up organization ? and the community has the right to ask questions ? however hard those questions may be to answer and however much answering those questions may be distasteful to the people who have to answer. As a concerned community member, you could have simply asked ? ?Do we have to recognize a contingent liability given the litigation, and are there any Section 162 implications to be considered?? You chose a rather different approach of posting legal speculation in the name of "seeking a legal position? and hence I replied. If you want something more definitive, then seeking actual legal counsel would likely help clarify far more than speculation here. The community has every right to know that the organization is being properly operated, but it also true that the community vests the routine oversight in the elected governance body ? as they are both accountable for such oversight and have access to legal counsel to inform their course of action. This becomes even more important when in litigation, as organizations need to take great care with their communication ? even to their members ? to balance the need for openness with the obligation to sustain a prudent legal defense. You may not get answers to all your questions in the midst of litigation, but that?s an indication of a governing body being true to its job rather than any indication to the contrary. As someone who has had to manage such a difficult balance when defending ARIN in litigation, I know firsthand it can be quite challenging to maintain open communication with community at the same time. I?d encourage you to continue to raise questions that you might have as concerned community member (if indeed out of bona fide concern for AFRINIC), but you also should recognize that circumspect communications is quite normal when it comes to litigation matters, so you might not get the answers you seek ? particularly to legal speculation. Best wishes, /John John Curran President and CEO American Registry for Internet Numbers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ceo at wacren.net Wed Aug 18 15:05:32 2021 From: ceo at wacren.net (WACREN CEO) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 15:05:32 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: <33E2833C-B36E-481C-8192-818864073504@arin.net> References: <00000000000032bb7605c94bf354@google.com> <33E2833C-B36E-481C-8192-818864073504@arin.net> Message-ID: ++1 to John's comment. While everyone in the community has the right to ask questions, no one can expect to receive a direct and swift response, especially on issues that are before court. It would be good that we slow down while AFRINIC management and board are dealing with the current issue. And to be fair, AFRINIC CEO has been providing periodic updates. So what? Merci. Boubakar On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 1:10 PM John Curran wrote: > On 18 Aug 2021, at 8:05 AM, Andrew Alston > wrote: > > > John, > > I query where queries may actually get answered ? and since previous > emails to the members list have gone unanswered ? here is as good a place > as any. ... > > We are a community ? this is a bottom up organization ? and the community > has the right to ask questions ? however hard those questions may be to > answer and however much answering those questions may be distasteful to the > people who have to answer. > > > As a concerned community member, you could have simply asked ? ?Do we have > to recognize a contingent liability given the litigation, and are there any > Section 162 implications to be considered?? You chose a rather different > approach of posting legal speculation in the name of "seeking a legal > position? and hence I replied. If you want something more definitive, then > seeking actual legal counsel would likely help clarify far more than > speculation here. > > The community has every right to know that the organization is being > properly operated, but it also true that the community vests the routine > oversight in the elected governance body ? as they are both accountable for > such oversight and have access to legal counsel to inform their course of > action. This becomes even more important when in litigation, as > organizations need to take great care with their communication ? even to > their members ? to balance the need for openness with the obligation to > sustain a prudent legal defense. You may not get answers to all your > questions in the midst of litigation, but that?s an indication of a > governing body being true to its job rather than any indication to the > contrary. > > As someone who has had to manage such a difficult balance when defending > ARIN in litigation, I know firsthand it can be quite challenging to > maintain open communication with community at the same time. I?d encourage > you to continue to raise questions that you might have as concerned > community member (if indeed out of bona fide concern for AFRINIC), but you > also should recognize that circumspect communications is quite normal when > it comes to litigation matters, so you might not get the answers you seek ? > particularly to legal speculation. > > Best wishes, > /John > > John Curran > President and CEO > American Registry for Internet Numbers > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Wed Aug 18 15:07:05 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 08:07:05 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: <33E2833C-B36E-481C-8192-818864073504@arin.net> References: <33E2833C-B36E-481C-8192-818864073504@arin.net> Message-ID: <5F0A7A00-4C16-4E76-BF99-1407BF858FC2@delong.com> The key differences here being that prior to litigation and after the conclusion of litigation, ARIN has a history and track record of open and honest communication with its membership and community and trustworthy leadership. AFRINIC?s track record is not so strong here, with a board that continues to hide virtually all of its activities behind an NDA and fought hard against efforts to get it to publish its meeting minutes. Even now that they are published, they are absurdly terse and fail to disclose the voting record of board members. Further, ARIN has a track record of staff obeying the governing documents as they are written, whereas AFRINIC has more of a tendency to make up policies which aren?t actually contained in its governing documents and which were not approved by its community when AFRINIC staff sought such policies through the policy experience report, then attempting to use those fictitious policies to take adverse action selectively against members they don?t like. From my vantage point, AFRINIC?s actions pose a far greater risk to the RIR system than any litigation against AFRINIC. Owen > On Aug 18, 2021, at 06:10, John Curran wrote: > > ? On 18 Aug 2021, at 8:05 AM, Andrew Alston wrote: >> >> John, >> >> I query where queries may actually get answered ? and since previous emails to the members list have gone unanswered ? here is as good a place as any. ... > >> We are a community ? this is a bottom up organization ? and the community has the right to ask questions ? however hard those questions may be to answer and however much answering those questions may be distasteful to the people who have to answer. > > As a concerned community member, you could have simply asked ? ?Do we have to recognize a contingent liability given the litigation, and are there any Section 162 implications to be considered?? You chose a rather different approach of posting legal speculation in the name of "seeking a legal position? and hence I replied. If you want something more definitive, then seeking actual legal counsel would likely help clarify far more than speculation here. > > The community has every right to know that the organization is being properly operated, but it also true that the community vests the routine oversight in the elected governance body ? as they are both accountable for such oversight and have access to legal counsel to inform their course of action. This becomes even more important when in litigation, as organizations need to take great care with their communication ? even to their members ? to balance the need for openness with the obligation to sustain a prudent legal defense. You may not get answers to all your questions in the midst of litigation, but that?s an indication of a governing body being true to its job rather than any indication to the contrary. > > As someone who has had to manage such a difficult balance when defending ARIN in litigation, I know firsthand it can be quite challenging to maintain open communication with community at the same time. I?d encourage you to continue to raise questions that you might have as concerned community member (if indeed out of bona fide concern for AFRINIC), but you also should recognize that circumspect communications is quite normal when it comes to litigation matters, so you might not get the answers you seek ? particularly to legal speculation. > > Best wishes, > /John > > John Curran > President and CEO > American Registry for Internet Numbers > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rfg at tristatelogic.com Wed Aug 18 15:33:41 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 08:33:41 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <97247.1629300821@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In message , Andrew Alston wrote: >The contingent liability stuff - I actually see sense in this - however - that >neglects the second part of my question - regarding section 162 of the >companies act - that has nothing to do with contingent liability. Section 162 >of the companies act says - "Unable to pay debtors" - with no qualifications - Long long ago, I had my very own LLC company here in the U.S. When I had it, it racked up certain liabilities... electricity, rent, etc. There were certain times during this period when I unavoidably found it necessary to visit the restroom, or what much of the rest of the world refers to as the water closet. During these brief periods of time, I found it essentially impossible to pay the company's outstanding bills. (This was prior to modern cell phones and pay-by-phone facilities.) Andrew is correct that the companies law of Mauritius admits of no exceptions which would legally cover such transient circumstances, and thus, it pleases me no end that I created my LLC in the United States, rather than Mauritius, where economic justice is apparently swift, even for those temporarily dispossessed of the ability to pay their bills by the irresistable requirements of nature. Regards, rfg From Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net Wed Aug 18 15:39:04 2021 From: Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net (Omo Oaiya) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 16:39:04 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: <5F0A7A00-4C16-4E76-BF99-1407BF858FC2@delong.com> References: <33E2833C-B36E-481C-8192-818864073504@arin.net> <5F0A7A00-4C16-4E76-BF99-1407BF858FC2@delong.com> Message-ID: Hi Owen, Since you have resurfaced, may I use the opportunity to point at questions directed at you while you were away? As the question helps to validate the position you have espoused so liberally on the different lists, you have a responsibility to respond to it promptly. Some, like me, even think it is a matter of your honesty/integrity or lack thereof. Please see https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-August/004709.html Look forward to hearing from you Omo On Wed, 18 Aug 2021 at 16:08, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss < community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > The key differences here being that prior to litigation and after the > conclusion of litigation, ARIN has a history and track record of open and > honest communication with its membership and community and trustworthy > leadership. AFRINIC?s track record is not so strong here, with a board that > continues to hide virtually all of its activities behind an NDA and fought > hard against efforts to get it to publish its meeting minutes. Even now > that they are published, they are absurdly terse and fail to disclose the > voting record of board members. > > Further, ARIN has a track record of staff obeying the governing documents > as they are written, whereas AFRINIC has more of a tendency to make up > policies which aren?t actually contained in its governing documents and > which were not approved by its community when AFRINIC staff sought such > policies through the policy experience report, then attempting to use those > fictitious policies to take adverse action selectively against members they > don?t like. > > From my vantage point, AFRINIC?s actions pose a far greater risk to the > RIR system than any litigation against AFRINIC. > > Owen > > > On Aug 18, 2021, at 06:10, John Curran wrote: > > ? On 18 Aug 2021, at 8:05 AM, Andrew Alston < > Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com> wrote: > > > John, > > I query where queries may actually get answered ? and since previous > emails to the members list have gone unanswered ? here is as good a place > as any. ... > > We are a community ? this is a bottom up organization ? and the community > has the right to ask questions ? however hard those questions may be to > answer and however much answering those questions may be distasteful to the > people who have to answer. > > > As a concerned community member, you could have simply asked ? ?Do we have > to recognize a contingent liability given the litigation, and are there any > Section 162 implications to be considered?? You chose a rather different > approach of posting legal speculation in the name of "seeking a legal > position? and hence I replied. If you want something more definitive, then > seeking actual legal counsel would likely help clarify far more than > speculation here. > > The community has every right to know that the organization is being > properly operated, but it also true that the community vests the routine > oversight in the elected governance body ? as they are both accountable for > such oversight and have access to legal counsel to inform their course of > action. This becomes even more important when in litigation, as > organizations need to take great care with their communication ? even to > their members ? to balance the need for openness with the obligation to > sustain a prudent legal defense. You may not get answers to all your > questions in the midst of litigation, but that?s an indication of a > governing body being true to its job rather than any indication to the > contrary. > > As someone who has had to manage such a difficult balance when defending > ARIN in litigation, I know firsthand it can be quite challenging to > maintain open communication with community at the same time. I?d encourage > you to continue to raise questions that you might have as concerned > community member (if indeed out of bona fide concern for AFRINIC), but you > also should recognize that circumspect communications is quite normal when > it comes to litigation matters, so you might not get the answers you seek ? > particularly to legal speculation. > > Best wishes, > /John > > John Curran > President and CEO > American Registry for Internet Numbers > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com Wed Aug 18 16:43:30 2021 From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 16:43:30 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: <33E2833C-B36E-481C-8192-818864073504@arin.net> References: <00000000000032bb7605c94bf354@google.com> <33E2833C-B36E-481C-8192-818864073504@arin.net> Message-ID: John, While I agree wholeheartedly that in the course of litigation answers may be hard to come by ? the clause I refer to in the companies act has little to do with the litigation when it stands in isolation ? it raises a question about if the company cannot pay its debtors ? in any circumstance ? irrespective of litigation. Now, further to this ? yes a company may be able to say little during litigation ? but ? when an entity goes to the community and its members ? asking for money to fund itself through a hard time, any prudent person who is going to donate money ? is going to want to know certain basic things 1. How will the money they are diverting from other projects be spent 2. Are the individuals in control of the entity requesting money behaving in a way that is both within the bounds of the law and doing everything reasonable to ensure that the amount of money being requested is kept to a minimum ? I.E ? that they aren?t taking actions that would increase the burden on members any more than it already is 3. Is the board complying with their fiduciary duties in all of their actions. If the answers are not clear ? an entity may well decide not to donate a single cent ? because to do so could well be akin to enabling bad behavior. So while these questions may seem irrelevant normally ? in the context of being asked for money over and above the fees members pay every year ? they are very pertinent in my view. And if the company should indeed be under the control of an administrator ? that is something we need to know before we start donating money. Andrew From: John Curran Date: Wednesday, 18 August 2021 at 16:09 To: Andrew Alston Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING On 18 Aug 2021, at 8:05 AM, Andrew Alston > wrote: John, I query where queries may actually get answered ? and since previous emails to the members list have gone unanswered ? here is as good a place as any. ... We are a community ? this is a bottom up organization ? and the community has the right to ask questions ? however hard those questions may be to answer and however much answering those questions may be distasteful to the people who have to answer. As a concerned community member, you could have simply asked ? ?Do we have to recognize a contingent liability given the litigation, and are there any Section 162 implications to be considered?? You chose a rather different approach of posting legal speculation in the name of "seeking a legal position? and hence I replied. If you want something more definitive, then seeking actual legal counsel would likely help clarify far more than speculation here. The community has every right to know that the organization is being properly operated, but it also true that the community vests the routine oversight in the elected governance body ? as they are both accountable for such oversight and have access to legal counsel to inform their course of action. This becomes even more important when in litigation, as organizations need to take great care with their communication ? even to their members ? to balance the need for openness with the obligation to sustain a prudent legal defense. You may not get answers to all your questions in the midst of litigation, but that?s an indication of a governing body being true to its job rather than any indication to the contrary. As someone who has had to manage such a difficult balance when defending ARIN in litigation, I know firsthand it can be quite challenging to maintain open communication with community at the same time. I?d encourage you to continue to raise questions that you might have as concerned community member (if indeed out of bona fide concern for AFRINIC), but you also should recognize that circumspect communications is quite normal when it comes to litigation matters, so you might not get the answers you seek ? particularly to legal speculation. Best wishes, /John John Curran President and CEO American Registry for Internet Numbers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From abscoco at gmail.com Wed Aug 18 17:22:13 2021 From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain Baya) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 18:22:13 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Possible Scenarios about the Future of AfriNIC (was: FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING) Message-ID: {move to a new thread from [*]} Dear AfriNIC's Community, ...i start this new thread to anticipate more off-topic emails to come soon under a thread obviously dedicated to a great *free* initiative of "FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING". Please keep it as an opportunity with full right to prosper, so that our service region could confirm its ability to find appropriate countermeasures against attacks such as this one...i recall that a similar situation occured with .AFRICA (the African DNS TLD)...and maybe someone like Mr Lucky, or someone with more clue, could share his own view on perspectives or way forward...of course, i expect something different to the hasty burial, quoted below :'-( ...someone, on this mailinglist, has already called for an AU's reaction/intervention...maybe something to dig :-/ The above idea was to requesting a special status for AfriNIC from AU... ...many possibilies exist...if anyone want to share its own perspective or a practical solution in how to really save the Internet Numbers Registry System (RFC7020), right now, under targeted attacks. AfriNIC being only the first step... About loans...i see it as a separate alternative or even a normal one, coming with discounts; but to know if it's allowed to any member to pay its fees for two or more years in advance, AfriNIC has to inform us...but, feel free to get in touch with the Staff to discuss about... ...if i could recall it too: maybe (in parallel with defensive ones) a more offensive [1] joint action should be consider the earliest possible. Knowing that, there is a shared risk in case of a regional Internet shutdown due to an inability for a regional RIR to maintain its core registry operations. __ [*]: [1]: Unfortunately! this "INRs War" is still at its very beginning...so, please: ~?~ *DONATE TO KEEP AFRINIC UP BY CLICKING THIS LINK;* *https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 * ~?~ Shalom, --sb. Le mer. 18 ao?t 2021 ? 8:18 AM, Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss < community-discuss at afrinic.net> a ?crit : > Not being a lawyer ? I would actually like to know the legal position on > this ? because here is the way I see this. > > > > AfriNIC has a contingent liability on their books of $50m dollars right > now ? and a net worth far below that. > > Incurring any further debt ? with no guarantee of success in the court > case ? may be classified as reckless trading. > > > > Furthermore ? I would like to know if the directors of AfriNIC have > complied with their statutory requirements under section 162 of the act ? > which mandates that they call a board meeting to discuss appointing a > liquidator or administrator. This part of the law ? I don?t need a lawyer > to interpret ? because its pretty crystal clear: > > > > 162. Duty of directors on insolvency > > (1) A director of a company who believes that the company is unable to pay > its debts as they fall due shall forthwith call a meeting of the Board to > consider whether the Board should appoint a liquidator or an administrator. > > (2) Where a meeting is called under this section, the Board shall consider > whether to appoint a liquidator or an administrator, or to carry on the > business of the company. > > (3) Where ? > > (a) a director fails to comply with subsection (1); > > (b) at the time of that failure the company was unable to pay its debts as > they fell due; and > > (c) the company is subsequently placed in liquidation, 118 the Court may, > on the application of the liquidator or of a creditor of the company, make > an order that the director shall be liable for the whole or any part of any > loss suffered by creditors of the company as a result of the company > continuing to trade. > > > > > > Since AfriNIC ? has on calls with its members ? openly admitted that they > may be unable to service debt and that certain creditors have agreed to > payment deferrals etc ? and since there is absolutely no guarantee that > sponsorship is going to cover debt ? this is very clear ? and it will be > very interesting to see the minutes or the board meeting where this happens. > > > > I am also very curious to see the resolutions regarding budget, since if > the company is spending outside of budget ? that requires a board > resolution ? which has to be published under the transparency rules. There > is no way on planet earth that the budget would cover the kinds of legal > fees they have been racking up ? so ? how much was the budget expanded ? > and what risks are being taken if spending is being incurred and they lose > and still have to pay up with the lawyers etc? And how much money is going > to be left by the time they finish paying the lawyers even if they win this > ? would a settlement not be cheaper at the end of the day? > > > > Andrew > > > > *From:* Anthony Ubah > *Sent:* Wednesday, August 18, 2021 12:14 AM > *To:* Dewole Ajao > *Cc:* General Discussions of AFRINIC > *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP > AFRINIC RUNNING > > > > Great idea ?? > > > > On Tue, Aug 17, 2021, 2:05 PM Dewole Ajao wrote: > > This is a very good initiative. Can the organizers look at making this > more like a crowdsourced loan? Is this something that's allowable? That > way, AFRINIC is given interest free loans and then we can figure out how to > repay the loans in the future. > > > > For example, I could opt to pay my 2022 and 2023 membership fees in > advance via this fund (if it can be made official). > > > > Meanwhile, someone here is asking if an initiative can be launched to > blackhole traffic from all prefixes globally owned by the people trying to > force the registry to its knees by starving it of funds? > > > > Regards, > > Dewole. > > > > On Tue, Aug 17, 2021 at 6:47 PM Noah wrote: > > Dear Internet Community, > > You are probably aware that AFRINIC, the Regional Internet Registry for > Africa, is involved in ongoing litigation, where the plaintiff has sought > to have AFRINIC?s bank accounts frozen. In today?s connected world, it is > easy to abstract the Internet into simply moving bits and bytes, and forget > that there are real people that work hard at building, maintaining and > providing support for the systems that you, and the Internet, need to > continue working and engaging. > > The litigation has made it difficult for AFRINIC to meet its financial > obligations. Part of these expenses are salaries for the AFRINIC team, who > are resolutely working through this difficult period. Whilst we recognise > that the legal system has to complete its important process, ?our > colleagues still need to survive? during one of the worst pandemics in > memory. As an operational entity, that is core to a functioning Internet, > AFRINIC still has financial obligations that it must meet to its suppliers. > > *AF-IX*, in collaboration with our partners, are therefore embarking on a * > fund-raising exercise* to help keep AFRINIC?s core functions and services > running for the next three months. As a broader community, we are dependent > on this registry, whose service of allocating and registering Internet > Number Resources (IPv4, IPv6 and ASN) has enabled communication for the > development and growth of the Internet In the African region. > > > *We invite you to be part of the community of supporters to ensure that > AFRINIC can continue to play the vital role it has, for the sustainable > digital growth in Africa. * > > *You can choose to donate any amount via the URL below where you will find > all different options. The funds collected will be used to support the > team by ensuring the core functions of AFRINIC continue without risk. * > *DONATE TO KEEP AFRINIC UP BY CLICKING THIS LINK;* *https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 > * > > > > *The AF-IX is ably supported in this initiative by the below partners; * > Technology Service Providers of *Kenya* ? *TESPOK* > *Tanzania* ISP Association ? *TISPA* > *Angola* ISP Association ? *AAPSI* > Internet Exchange Point of *Nigeria* ? *IXPN* > > For additional information, please feel free to contact us, or any of our > partners through the following email addresses below: > > *info at af-ix.net | tespok at tespok.co.ke > | secretariat at tispa.or.tz > | secretariado at aapsi.og.ao > | info at ixp.net.ng * > > > > *For Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), Please visit the Sites Below For > Details;* > > > > *TESPOK* = https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 > > *AF-IX* = https://www.af-ix.net/news/2021/08/afrinic-fundraising-campaign > > *TISPA* = https://tispa.or.tz/fundraising/afrinic > > *ISPA-Angola* = https://www.aapsi.og.ao/noticia/fundraising-for-afrinic > > *IXPN* = https://ixp.net.ng/news/afrinic-fundraising > > > > > > We look forward to your kind support. > > > > Cheers, > > *Noah * > > *TISPA* > > > [...] > > > -- -- Best Regards ! __ baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]| Subscribe to Mailing List: __ #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|#?Romains15?:33?Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec vous tous! ?#?Amen?!? ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement? ?Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!?(#Psaumes42:2) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jcurran at arin.net Wed Aug 18 17:26:51 2021 From: jcurran at arin.net (John Curran) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 17:26:51 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: References: <00000000000032bb7605c94bf354@google.com> <33E2833C-B36E-481C-8192-818864073504@arin.net> Message-ID: <61C5F016-C4B3-4585-B6EE-C32D8C82141F@arin.net> On 18 Aug 2021, at 12:43 PM, Andrew Alston > wrote: ... any prudent person who is going to donate money ? is going to want to know certain basic things 1. How will the money they are diverting from other projects be spent 2. Are the individuals in control of the entity requesting money behaving in a way that is both within the bounds of the law and doing everything reasonable to ensure that the amount of money being requested is kept to a minimum ? I.E ? that they aren?t taking actions that would increase the burden on members any more than it already is 3. Is the board complying with their fiduciary duties in all of their actions. Andrew - These are quite reasonable questions for anyone donating funds to any cause to ask. Of course, given the nature of the litigation faced by AFRINIC that has brought about the situation, some of the answers may be rather obvious; to wit - a) One would expect the money will be used to defray costs of AFRINIC operations per its budget ? but now likely with the addition of expenses resulting from the litigation. b) One would expect that AFRINIC is doing everything reasonable and prudent to avoid increasing the burden on the members (defending against a $1.8 billion USD claim certainly qualifies in that regard) c) One would expect that the board is indeed complying with their fiduciary duties in all of their actions (being litigated generally results in increased legal expertise on-hand, and ample attention to such duties.) I find it quite encouraging that so many organizations have already pondered these questions, and (in recognition of the key role AFRINIC plays in the development and growth of Internet in Africa) that have come together in a fund-raising exercise to help keep AFRINIC running ? may they find many of similar mind and kindred spirit from around the globe. Best wishes, /John John Curran President and CEO American Registry for Internet Numbers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From abscoco at gmail.com Wed Aug 18 17:39:31 2021 From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain Baya) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 18:39:31 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: <33E2833C-B36E-481C-8192-818864073504@arin.net> References: <00000000000032bb7605c94bf354@google.com> <33E2833C-B36E-481C-8192-818864073504@arin.net> Message-ID: Dear AfriNIC's Community, ...i would like to thank John, for his useful clarifications. John, thanks for playing your role, as a firm defender of RFC7020 (INRS). Now! just to recall that, anyone should consider starting a different thread when its email is fully off-topic like those treating the Future of AfriNIC [1]. __ [1]: ...again, this thread is only about: "FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING" Many thanks to those who are behind the initiative. ...i see this very thread as a great opportunity for anyone to support: (i) a running Internet, (ii) the INR System & (iii) AfriNIC (one of the five regional RIRs)...to: #KeepItOn! no Internet Shutdown :'-( Please, let's call our friends for more concrete actions! You are free to donate. Please do your part, if you want to *Defend the Internet* like Internet Society. ~?~ *DONATE TO KEEP AFRINIC UP BY CLICKING THIS LINK;* *https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 * ~?~ Shalom, --sb. Le mercredi 18 ao?t 2021, John Curran a ?crit : > On 18 Aug 2021, at 8:05 AM, Andrew Alston > wrote: > > > John, > > I query where queries may actually get answered ? and since previous > emails to the members list have gone unanswered ? here is as good a place > as any. ... > > We are a community ? this is a bottom up organization ? and the community > has the right to ask questions ? however hard those questions may be to > answer and however much answering those questions may be distasteful to the > people who have to answer. > > > As a concerned community member, you could have simply asked ? ?Do we have > to recognize a contingent liability given the litigation, and are there any > Section 162 implications to be considered?? You chose a rather different > approach of posting legal speculation in the name of "seeking a legal > position? and hence I replied. If you want something more definitive, then > seeking actual legal counsel would likely help clarify far more than > speculation here. > > The community has every right to know that the organization is being > properly operated, but it also true that the community vests the routine > oversight in the elected governance body ? as they are both accountable for > such oversight and have access to legal counsel to inform their course of > action. This becomes even more important when in litigation, as > organizations need to take great care with their communication ? even to > their members ? to balance the need for openness with the obligation to > sustain a prudent legal defense. You may not get answers to all your > questions in the midst of litigation, but that?s an indication of a > governing body being true to its job rather than any indication to the > contrary. > > As someone who has had to manage such a difficult balance when defending > ARIN in litigation, I know firsthand it can be quite challenging to > maintain open communication with community at the same time. I?d encourage > you to continue to raise questions that you might have as concerned > community member (if indeed out of bona fide concern for AFRINIC), but you > also should recognize that circumspect communications is quite normal when > it comes to litigation matters, so you might not get the answers you seek ? > particularly to legal speculation. > > Best wishes, > /John > > John Curran > President and CEO > American Registry for Internet Numbers > > > > > > > -- -- Best Regards ! __ baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]| Subscribe to Mailing List: __ #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|#?Romains15?:33?Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec vous tous! ?#?Amen?!? ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement? ?Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!?(#Psaumes42:2) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sander at steffann.nl Wed Aug 18 17:54:15 2021 From: sander at steffann.nl (Sander Steffann) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 19:54:15 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: <61C5F016-C4B3-4585-B6EE-C32D8C82141F@arin.net> References: <00000000000032bb7605c94bf354@google.com> <33E2833C-B36E-481C-8192-818864073504@arin.net> <61C5F016-C4B3-4585-B6EE-C32D8C82141F@arin.net> Message-ID: Hi John, > These are quite reasonable questions for anyone donating funds to any > cause to ask. [...] I find it quite encouraging that so many > organizations have already pondered these questions, and (in > recognition of the key role AFRINIC plays in the?development and > growth of Internet in Africa) that have come together in a fund- > raising exercise to?help keep AFRINIC running ? may they find many of > similar mind and kindred spirit from around the globe.? I applaud that people are thinking about the staff of AFRINIC not being paid and raising funds to keep them going. The thing that confuses me is how the logistics work with that. I wonder how the money that is donated on TESPOK's bank account in Kenya will end up in the bank accounts of AFRINIC staff in Mauritius while AFRINIC (who I presume must handle the payments to the staff, tax payments and such things) has its bank accounts frozen. Is it as easy as TESPOK paying the staff and taxes directly without going through AFRINIC's bank accounts? I think it would be good to know how the donated funds will be handled and how they will make life for AFRINIC staff better. To me this whole Game of Thr^W Lawsuits looks like a complex puzzle. I have no direct stake in this as I am not an AFRINIC member, so I don't expect anybody to feel like they have to answer me. But as a member of the global RIR community I am very interested to see what I can learn so I can put some pieces of that puzzle in the right place, so any education to help me learn more about this would be highly appreciated ? Cheers! Sander -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 833 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jcurran at arin.net Wed Aug 18 18:06:45 2021 From: jcurran at arin.net (John Curran) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 18:06:45 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: References: <00000000000032bb7605c94bf354@google.com> <33E2833C-B36E-481C-8192-818864073504@arin.net> <61C5F016-C4B3-4585-B6EE-C32D8C82141F@arin.net> Message-ID: <84D4C89A-A0E0-49EA-BEE3-AFFFF141BC19@arin.net> On 18 Aug 2021, at 1:54 PM, Sander Steffann wrote: > > Hi John, Hi Sander! :-) >> These are quite reasonable questions for anyone donating funds to any >> cause to ask. [...] I find it quite encouraging that so many >> organizations have already pondered these questions, and (in >> recognition of the key role AFRINIC plays in the development and >> growth of Internet in Africa) that have come together in a fund- >> raising exercise to help keep AFRINIC running ? may they find many of >> similar mind and kindred spirit from around the globe. > > I applaud that people are thinking about the staff of AFRINIC not being > paid and raising funds to keep them going. The thing that confuses me > is how the logistics work with that. I wonder how the money that is > donated on TESPOK's bank account in Kenya will end up in the bank > accounts of AFRINIC staff in Mauritius while AFRINIC (who I presume > must handle the payments to the staff, tax payments and such things) > has its bank accounts frozen. Is it as easy as TESPOK paying the staff > and taxes directly without going through AFRINIC's bank accounts? ?As easy as? may understate it somewhat, but yes, I believe that is the case. (I will note that this is similar to the process which would have to occur for delivering support from the Joint RIR Stability Fund - if such gets requested at some point.) > I think it would be good to know how the donated funds will be handled > and how they will make life for AFRINIC staff better. From the online FAQ at the donation website > - >> Why is AFRINIC not doing this themselves? >> AFRINIC has no access to funding that it may receive directly. Although you may make deposits into the AFRINIC?s banking accounts (as some new members are doing) AFRINIC can not draw on those resources because of the current status quo. As a result Af-IX and partners are taking it upon ourselves to front-end the funding experience for AFRINIC. >> >> How will the funds be disbursed? >> TESPOK will reach out to AFRINIC to request for details of pending payments, to which AFRINIC will submit funding request to us for all expenses which they deem critical.The request shall be made via e-mail and shall include the following details: >> >> i. Email with the subject: Request for Payment to the TESPOK finance email >> ii. Attachment of invoice clearly stating Payee name with clear contact information: physical address; postal address; payee telephone number >> iii. Bank account details: Bank Name, Branch, Account Number, IBAN Number, Intermediary Bank if required, SWIFT code, Sort Code, Routing Number (depending on jurisdiction receiving requirements) >> iv. Copies of all transactions incoming and outgoing will be accessible via a report on the fundraising site. >> How will you ensure appropriate auditing is in place? >> >> i. Maintenance of proper books of accounts with records of all transactions incoming and outgoing >> ii. Internal audit checks and controls will be established >> Best wishes, /John John Curran President and CEO American Registry for Internet Numbers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 833 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Wed Aug 18 18:11:24 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 21:11:24 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: <61C5F016-C4B3-4585-B6EE-C32D8C82141F@arin.net> References: <00000000000032bb7605c94bf354@google.com> <33E2833C-B36E-481C-8192-818864073504@arin.net> <61C5F016-C4B3-4585-B6EE-C32D8C82141F@arin.net> Message-ID: Dear John, On Wed, 18 Aug 2021, 20:32 John Curran, wrote: > > I find it quite encouraging that so many organizations have already > pondered these questions, and (in recognition of the key role AFRINIC plays > in the development and growth of Internet in Africa) that have come > together in a fund-raising exercise to help keep AFRINIC running ? may they > find many of similar mind and kindred spirit from around the globe. > > Best wishes, > /John > > John Curran > President and CEO > American Registry for Internet Numbers > I would like to also point out that; A number of African based IXP/ISP associations (TESPOK Kenya, TISPA Tanzania, ISPA-Angola, UIXP Uganda, IXPN Nigeria, ISPA-Congo) under the umbrella of the renowned Af* organisation the "Africa Internet Exchange Points" (Af-IX), saw it necessary to collaborate and partner together to run a fundraising campaign that would involve the said parties and the wider Internet community so that AFRINIC whose core functions, we all depend on, can keep running without disruption as its our collective interest. The Af-IX and TESPOK fundraising web pages and those of the partner ISP/IXP associations have all the necessary information and we will continue to improve based on Internet community feedback and also provide complete transparency and accountability as we move along. We encourage the Internet community to join these organisations as we work together to ensure that we KEEP AFRINIC UP AND RUNNING. Cheers Noah TISPA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sander at steffann.nl Wed Aug 18 18:14:37 2021 From: sander at steffann.nl (Sander Steffann) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 20:14:37 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: <84D4C89A-A0E0-49EA-BEE3-AFFFF141BC19@arin.net> References: <00000000000032bb7605c94bf354@google.com> <33E2833C-B36E-481C-8192-818864073504@arin.net> <61C5F016-C4B3-4585-B6EE-C32D8C82141F@arin.net> <84D4C89A-A0E0-49EA-BEE3-AFFFF141BC19@arin.net> Message-ID: Hi John! > ?As easy as? may understate it somewhat, but yes, I believe that is > the case. (I will note that this is similar to the process which > would have to occur for delivering support from the Joint RIR > Stability Fund - if such gets requested at some point.)? Yeah, I was wondering about that as well ? > > I think it would be good to know how the donated funds will be > > handled > > and how they will make life for AFRINIC staff better. > > From the online FAQ at the donation website ?< > https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001> -? I read that, but it only talks about invoices and not about salaries. Those are usually a bit more complicated because of income tax handling and things like that. I think it would be good for the fundraising campaign if the FAQ could make it explicit that the staff is being cared for. I personally care most about the livelihoods of the staff that has nothing to do with this situation! Cheers, Sander -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 833 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com Wed Aug 18 19:49:11 2021 From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 19:49:11 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: <61C5F016-C4B3-4585-B6EE-C32D8C82141F@arin.net> References: <00000000000032bb7605c94bf354@google.com> <33E2833C-B36E-481C-8192-818864073504@arin.net> <61C5F016-C4B3-4585-B6EE-C32D8C82141F@arin.net> Message-ID: John My problem with what you are saying is that it is predicated entirely on trust ? trust that the board is doing everything they can ? trust that the board is prudent ? trust that the board is sticking to fiduciary duty. I would argue that trust ? may be a little hard to come by when it comes to handing over money ? considering the situation the company now finds itself in under the leadership of this board ? can considering past years. Sorry ? but as a community member ? Questions like these aren?t about feeling good and trusting ? they are pertinent ? valid ? questions ? that may be uncomfortable to answer ? but saying that we should just trust ? without any firm answers ? in light of the situation ? well ? I have to say that personally ? I find that a little hard to swallow Andrew From: John Curran Date: Wednesday, 18 August 2021 at 20:26 To: Andrew Alston Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING On 18 Aug 2021, at 12:43 PM, Andrew Alston > wrote: ... any prudent person who is going to donate money ? is going to want to know certain basic things 1. How will the money they are diverting from other projects be spent 2. Are the individuals in control of the entity requesting money behaving in a way that is both within the bounds of the law and doing everything reasonable to ensure that the amount of money being requested is kept to a minimum ? I.E ? that they aren?t taking actions that would increase the burden on members any more than it already is 3. Is the board complying with their fiduciary duties in all of their actions. Andrew - These are quite reasonable questions for anyone donating funds to any cause to ask. Of course, given the nature of the litigation faced by AFRINIC that has brought about the situation, some of the answers may be rather obvious; to wit - a) One would expect the money will be used to defray costs of AFRINIC operations per its budget ? but now likely with the addition of expenses resulting from the litigation. b) One would expect that AFRINIC is doing everything reasonable and prudent to avoid increasing the burden on the members (defending against a $1.8 billion USD claim certainly qualifies in that regard) c) One would expect that the board is indeed complying with their fiduciary duties in all of their actions (being litigated generally results in increased legal expertise on-hand, and ample attention to such duties.) I find it quite encouraging that so many organizations have already pondered these questions, and (in recognition of the key role AFRINIC plays in the development and growth of Internet in Africa) that have come together in a fund-raising exercise to help keep AFRINIC running ? may they find many of similar mind and kindred spirit from around the globe. Best wishes, /John John Curran President and CEO American Registry for Internet Numbers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jcurran at arin.net Wed Aug 18 20:29:11 2021 From: jcurran at arin.net (John Curran) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 20:29:11 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: References: <00000000000032bb7605c94bf354@google.com> <33E2833C-B36E-481C-8192-818864073504@arin.net> <61C5F016-C4B3-4585-B6EE-C32D8C82141F@arin.net> Message-ID: <6BA4735D-810E-489E-B119-00E0A5106677@arin.net> On 18 Aug 2021, at 3:49 PM, Andrew Alston > wrote: John My problem with what you are saying is that it is predicated entirely on trust ? trust that the board is doing everything they can ? trust that the board is prudent ? trust that the board is sticking to fiduciary duty. I would argue that trust ? may be a little hard to come by when it comes to handing over money ? considering the situation the company now finds itself in under the leadership of this board ? can considering past years. Sorry ? but as a community member ? Questions like these aren?t about feeling good and trusting ? they are pertinent ? valid ? questions ? that may be uncomfortable to answer ? but saying that we should just trust ? without any firm answers ? in light of the situation ? well ? I have to say that personally ? I find that a little hard to swallow Andrew Andrew - I am not telling you to trust (or not trust for that matter) - this really isn?t about you, and would not presume to suggest what course of action is best for you. Rather, I am stating that AFRINIC is supplying substantial updates and communication to the community ? particularly given that there is major litigation underway. You may not find it sufficient to address your legal assertions posed as questions, but then again, no organization in the midst of serious litigation is going to address legal speculation to the extent you seem to desire. Luckily, there is a community that does believe in AFRINIC and has come together to support it during this time of need. You can certainly become a member of that community or not, but neither choice will validate your unrealistic expectations for organizational legal engagement in midst of litigation. Best wishes, /John John Curran President and CEO American Registry for Internet Numbers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Wed Aug 18 20:41:33 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2021 23:41:33 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: References: <00000000000032bb7605c94bf354@google.com> <33E2833C-B36E-481C-8192-818864073504@arin.net> <61C5F016-C4B3-4585-B6EE-C32D8C82141F@arin.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Aug 2021, 22:55 Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss, < community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > John > > > > My problem with what you are saying is that it is predicated entirely on > trust ? > On the contrary the secretariat which Af-IX partners have selected to work with is TESPOK. TESPOK is a professional organisation that many large and small ISPs including the Government of Kenya has entrusted since 2002. TESPOK and other partners have covered clearly what will happen to the funds and how the donations will be accounted for and the reports that will be made publicly available. Visit the TESPOK website and read and if you feel there is something missing, please let the volunteers in this endeavour know. trust that the board is doing everything they can ? trust that the board is > prudent ? trust that the board is sticking to fiduciary duty. I would > argue that trust ? may be a little hard to come by when it comes to handing > over money ? > The Af-IX and its partners are the ones responsible in this endeavour. The ISP/IXP associations involved are self organised and will be accountable to the donors who will contribute to this fund. I hope this helps you from the self righteous confusion you may be having in terms of how the self-organised Af-IX partners will be ensuring that AFRINIC core functions continue to stay up and running. Cheers, Noah TISPA FWIW, the culture of donation is not alien in this part of the world. We donate to support weddings. We donate to support funerals. We donate to support pay for medical expenses. We donate to build community roads. Its our culture and we sure know how to hold each other accountable. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ibeanusielvis at gmail.com Thu Aug 19 10:56:08 2021 From: ibeanusielvis at gmail.com (Ibeanusi Elvis) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2021 19:56:08 +0900 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: References: <00000000000032bb7605c94bf354@google.com> <33E2833C-B36E-481C-8192-818864073504@arin.net> <61C5F016-C4B3-4585-B6EE-C32D8C82141F@arin.net> Message-ID: Hello, Regarding the legalities of this initiative, I would want to verify something; did a lawyer review this idea to ensure that this initiative will not be viewed in contempt with regards to the decision of the Mauritius court? As we all know, donation drives like these should work within the perimeters and bounds of the law and AFRINIC still has an ongoing lawsuit, will it not be counterproductive in the part of AFRINIC? >From where I stand, this initiative happened in a whim and we do not know if this initiative has all of the proper safeguard to ensure its legitimacy. I hope someone addresses this issue. Elvis. On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 5:44 Noah wrote: > > > On Wed, 18 Aug 2021, 22:55 Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss, < > community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > >> John >> >> >> >> My problem with what you are saying is that it is predicated entirely on >> trust ? >> > On the contrary the secretariat which Af-IX partners have selected to work > with is TESPOK. > TESPOK is a professional organisation that many large and small ISPs > including the Government of Kenya has entrusted since 2002. > > > TESPOK and other partners have covered clearly what will happen to the > funds and how the donations will be accounted for and the reports that will > be made publicly available. > > Visit the TESPOK website and read and if you feel there is something > missing, please let the volunteers in this endeavour know. > > trust that the board is doing everything they can ? trust that the board >> is prudent ? trust that the board is sticking to fiduciary duty. I would >> argue that trust ? may be a little hard to come by when it comes to handing >> over money ? >> > > The Af-IX and its partners are the ones responsible in this endeavour. The > ISP/IXP associations involved are self organised and will be accountable to > the donors who will contribute to this fund. > > I hope this helps you from the self righteous confusion you may be having > in terms of how the self-organised Af-IX partners will be ensuring that > AFRINIC core functions continue to stay up and running. > > > Cheers, > Noah > TISPA > > > FWIW, the culture of donation is not alien in this part of the world. We > donate to support weddings. We donate to support funerals. We donate to > support pay for medical expenses. We donate to build community roads. Its > our culture and we sure know how to hold each other accountable. > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mpsalazar1 at up.edu.ph Thu Aug 19 13:00:19 2021 From: mpsalazar1 at up.edu.ph (Mary Lee Salazar) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2021 21:00:19 +0800 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: References: <00000000000032bb7605c94bf354@google.com> <33E2833C-B36E-481C-8192-818864073504@arin.net> <61C5F016-C4B3-4585-B6EE-C32D8C82141F@arin.net> Message-ID: Hello! It baffles me to think about whether or not these funds are for the payroll of the AFRINIC employees. How will AFRINIC address these issues, alongside the legal intricacies it may bring? AFRINIC has not given any consolidated plan of action to address the issue of its employee payroll. I hope this will not be an issue of the captain abandoning a sinking ship because if it ever is, it will undoubtedly taint AFRINIC's reputation. How will AFRINIC take responsibility for their employees if push comes to shove? ML On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 6:59 PM Ibeanusi Elvis wrote: > Hello, > > Regarding the legalities of this initiative, I would want to verify > something; did a lawyer review this idea to ensure that this initiative > will not be viewed in contempt with regards to the decision of the > Mauritius court? As we all know, donation drives like these should work > within the perimeters and bounds of the law and AFRINIC still has an > ongoing lawsuit, will it not be counterproductive in the part of AFRINIC? > From where I stand, this initiative happened in a whim and we do not know > if this initiative has all of the proper safeguard to ensure its > legitimacy. I hope someone addresses this issue. > > Elvis. > > On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 5:44 Noah wrote: > >> >> >> On Wed, 18 Aug 2021, 22:55 Andrew Alston via Community-Discuss, < >> community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: >> >>> John >>> >>> >>> >>> My problem with what you are saying is that it is predicated entirely on >>> trust ? >>> >> On the contrary the secretariat which Af-IX partners have selected to >> work with is TESPOK. >> TESPOK is a professional organisation that many large and small ISPs >> including the Government of Kenya has entrusted since 2002. >> >> >> TESPOK and other partners have covered clearly what will happen to the >> funds and how the donations will be accounted for and the reports that will >> be made publicly available. >> >> Visit the TESPOK website and read and if you feel there is something >> missing, please let the volunteers in this endeavour know. >> >> trust that the board is doing everything they can ? trust that the board >>> is prudent ? trust that the board is sticking to fiduciary duty. I would >>> argue that trust ? may be a little hard to come by when it comes to handing >>> over money ? >>> >> >> The Af-IX and its partners are the ones responsible in this endeavour. >> The ISP/IXP associations involved are self organised and will be >> accountable to the donors who will contribute to this fund. >> >> I hope this helps you from the self righteous confusion you may be having >> in terms of how the self-organised Af-IX partners will be ensuring that >> AFRINIC core functions continue to stay up and running. >> >> >> Cheers, >> Noah >> TISPA >> >> >> FWIW, the culture of donation is not alien in this part of the world. We >> donate to support weddings. We donate to support funerals. We donate to >> support pay for medical expenses. We donate to build community roads. Its >> our culture and we sure know how to hold each other accountable. >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chresgoro at gmail.com Thu Aug 19 14:43:20 2021 From: chresgoro at gmail.com (Christian Orozco) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2021 22:43:20 +0800 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: References: <00000000000032bb7605c94bf354@google.com> Message-ID: Behind these extra steps to raise funds for AFRINIC, does anyone know what will happen to the accounts which have not yet been disbursed to AFRINIC? It would be good to know more about them first before having conscious efforts to raise funds and donations for AFRINIC as those accounts may play a huge role in the current situation. I am looking forward to the clarification or resolution of this issue. Regards, Christian On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 1:45 AM Noah wrote: > Dear Internet Community, > > You are probably aware that AFRINIC, the Regional Internet Registry for > Africa, is involved in ongoing litigation, where the plaintiff has sought > to have AFRINIC?s bank accounts frozen. In today?s connected world, it is > easy to abstract the Internet into simply moving bits and bytes, and forget > that there are real people that work hard at building, maintaining and > providing support for the systems that you, and the Internet, need to > continue working and engaging. > > The litigation has made it difficult for AFRINIC to meet its financial > obligations. Part of these expenses are salaries for the AFRINIC team, who > are resolutely working through this difficult period. Whilst we recognise > that the legal system has to complete its important process, ?our > colleagues still need to survive? during one of the worst pandemics in > memory. As an operational entity, that is core to a functioning Internet, > AFRINIC still has financial obligations that it must meet to its suppliers. > > *AF-IX*, in collaboration with our partners, are therefore embarking on a *fund-raising > exercise* to help keep AFRINIC?s core functions and services running for > the next three months. As a broader community, we are dependent on this > registry, whose service of allocating and registering Internet Number > Resources (IPv4, IPv6 and ASN) has enabled communication for the > development and growth of the Internet In the African region. > > > *We invite you to be part of the community of supporters to ensure that > AFRINIC can continue to play the vital role it has, for the sustainable > digital growth in Africa.* > > *You can choose to donate any amount via the URL below where you will find > all different options. The funds collected will be used to support the > team by ensuring the core functions of AFRINIC continue without risk.* > *DONATE TO KEEP AFRINIC UP BY CLICKING THIS LINK;* *https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 > * > > > *The AF-IX is ably supported in this initiative by the below partners; * > Technology Service Providers of *Kenya* ? *TESPOK* > *Tanzania* ISP Association ? *TISPA* > *Angola* ISP Association ? *AAPSI* > Internet Exchange Point of *Nigeria* ? *IXPN* > > For additional information, please feel free to contact us, or any of our > partners through the following email addresses below: > > *info at af-ix.net | tespok at tespok.co.ke > | secretariat at tispa.or.tz > | secretariado at aapsi.og.ao > | info at ixp.net.ng * > > > *For Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), Please visit the Sites Below For > Details;* > > > *TESPOK* = https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 > > *AF-IX* = https://www.af-ix.net/news/2021/08/afrinic-fundraising-campaign > > *TISPA* = https://tispa.or.tz/fundraising/afrinic > > *ISPA-Angola* = https://www.aapsi.og.ao/noticia/fundraising-for-afrinic > > *IXPN* = https://ixp.net.ng/news/afrinic-fundraising > > > > We look forward to your kind support. > > > Cheers, > *Noah * > *TISPA* > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rfg at tristatelogic.com Thu Aug 19 14:46:53 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2021 07:46:53 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2638.1629384413@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In message , Ibeanusi Elvis wrote: >Regarding the legalities of this initiative, I would want to verify >something; did a lawyer review this idea to ensure that this initiative >will not be viewed in contempt with regards to the decision of the >Mauritius court? The court placed a (temporary) freeze on AFRINIC's bank accounts. If I, as a generous netizen, elect to send $50 USD -directly- to some Afrinic employee, then that is not something that either can or will concern the Mauritius court that created the AFRINIC bank account freeze, as long as I do not attempt to route the money through any of the frozen AFRINIC bank accounts that existed on the date and time when the judicial freeze order took effect. (If AFRINIC were to open a -new- account, either in Mauritius or elsewhere, then that account would not be in any sense frozen by the current operative judicial order, I believe.) It's the same story if one was to create a GoFundMe campaign for AFRINIC. The court order did not specify that GoFundMe.com is prohibited from forwarding funds to AFRINIC or to its officers or employees. In fact, if this entire sad episode has taught us anything, it is that all five of the Regional Internet Registries should at all times hold bank balances ONLY in Nevis & St. Kitts, where those bank balances would be essentially immune from any and all legal encumbrances. Regards, rfg From dndannang at gmail.com Thu Aug 19 15:40:12 2021 From: dndannang at gmail.com (DANIEL NANGHAKA) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2021 18:40:12 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: <2638.1629384413@segfault.tristatelogic.com> References: <2638.1629384413@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: I strongly agree. Let's all support the sustainability of AFRINIC to ensure a stable internet ecosystem. Daniel On Thu, Aug 19, 2021, 5:47 PM Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: > In message cnePg6Qtn5wM5265Z9zYL5HnYnUdHwBoOawjWsBQ at mail.gmail.com>, > Ibeanusi Elvis wrote: > > >Regarding the legalities of this initiative, I would want to verify > >something; did a lawyer review this idea to ensure that this initiative > >will not be viewed in contempt with regards to the decision of the > >Mauritius court? > > The court placed a (temporary) freeze on AFRINIC's bank accounts. > > If I, as a generous netizen, elect to send $50 USD -directly- to some > Afrinic employee, then that is not something that either can or will > concern the Mauritius court that created the AFRINIC bank account freeze, > as long as I do not attempt to route the money through any of the frozen > AFRINIC bank accounts that existed on the date and time when the judicial > freeze order took effect. (If AFRINIC were to open a -new- account, either > in Mauritius or elsewhere, then that account would not be in any sense > frozen by the current operative judicial order, I believe.) > > It's the same story if one was to create a GoFundMe campaign for AFRINIC. > The court order did not specify that GoFundMe.com is prohibited from > forwarding funds to AFRINIC or to its officers or employees. > > In fact, if this entire sad episode has taught us anything, it is that all > five of the Regional Internet Registries should at all times hold bank > balances ONLY in Nevis & St. Kitts, where those bank balances would be > essentially immune from any and all legal encumbrances. > > > Regards, > rfg > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From b.sowers154 at gmail.com Fri Aug 20 05:15:30 2021 From: b.sowers154 at gmail.com (Brian Sowers) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2021 01:15:30 -0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING Message-ID: <11F6DBAF-BED3-4DF8-8C02-60656EF8D365@gmail.com> One pressing question that may undermine this ?initiative?: has AFRINIC agreed to this process? While this is an initiative from certain resource members in the community, there needs to have been explicit consent from AFRINIC because it cannot fully account for these donations if ever. Who has received this consent from AFRINIC to push through with this initiative? -Brian From dndannang at gmail.com Fri Aug 20 06:07:58 2021 From: dndannang at gmail.com (DANIEL NANGHAKA) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2021 09:07:58 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: <11F6DBAF-BED3-4DF8-8C02-60656EF8D365@gmail.com> References: <11F6DBAF-BED3-4DF8-8C02-60656EF8D365@gmail.com> Message-ID: I do not understand what is wrong with some members on this list. Their actions show they want to kill AFRINIC. If they are not in support of sustainability - why don't they move to the other regions where they want to migrate or want the region to take over AFRINIC. In the history of the creation of AFRINIC, AFRINIC was created to manage Resources that were designated to Africa. So, those who want to use African resources in other regions, let them leave African resources and look for resources in those respective regions. Otherwise, we are seeing IP colonialism, theft and robbery in broad daylight. Daniel On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 at 08:22, Brian Sowers wrote: > One pressing question that may undermine this ?initiative?: has AFRINIC > agreed to this process? While this is an initiative from certain resource > members in the community, there needs to have been explicit consent from > AFRINIC because it cannot fully account for these donations if ever. Who > has received this consent from AFRINIC to push through with this initiative? > > -Brian > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yamadu at ug.edu.gh Fri Aug 20 07:17:52 2021 From: yamadu at ug.edu.gh (AMADU YUSIF) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2021 07:17:52 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: References: <11F6DBAF-BED3-4DF8-8C02-60656EF8D365@gmail.com> Message-ID: Daniel, I strongly agree with you. Some members here from their actions wants to kill AFRINIC Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: DANIEL NANGHAKA Sent: Friday, August 20, 2021 6:07:58 AM To: Brian Sowers Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING I do not understand what is wrong with some members on this list. Their actions show they want to kill AFRINIC. If they are not in support of sustainability - why don't they move to the other regions where they want to migrate or want the region to take over AFRINIC. In the history of the creation of AFRINIC, AFRINIC was created to manage Resources that were designated to Africa. So, those who want to use African resources in other regions, let them leave African resources and look for resources in those respective regions. Otherwise, we are seeing IP colonialism, theft and robbery in broad daylight. Daniel On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 at 08:22, Brian Sowers > wrote: One pressing question that may undermine this ?initiative?: has AFRINIC agreed to this process? While this is an initiative from certain resource members in the community, there needs to have been explicit consent from AFRINIC because it cannot fully account for these donations if ever. Who has received this consent from AFRINIC to push through with this initiative? -Brian _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bukkiepharworley at gmail.com Fri Aug 20 08:40:21 2021 From: bukkiepharworley at gmail.com (Bukola Oronti) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2021 09:40:21 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: References: <11F6DBAF-BED3-4DF8-8C02-60656EF8D365@gmail.com> Message-ID: ++1. To those Africans that are beneficiaries of the crumbs (in the form of travel support to AFRINIC meetings) and have thus lost your sense of judgement in the face of reality, if you cannot support the initiative, why not just keep quiet and let those who choose to do so support it in peace? I honestly hope when the time comes, you will be able to hold your heads up high and say you did the right thing and not that your throats were blocked because of what you must have eaten, and were typing out scripts that you did not read to understand. On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 at 07:08, DANIEL NANGHAKA wrote: > I do not understand what is wrong with some members on this list. Their > actions show they want to kill AFRINIC. > If they are not in support of sustainability - why don't they move to the > other regions where they want to migrate or want the region to take over > AFRINIC. > In the history of the creation of AFRINIC, AFRINIC was created to manage > Resources that were designated to Africa. > So, those who want to use African resources in other regions, let them > leave African resources and look for resources in those respective regions. > Otherwise, we are seeing IP colonialism, theft and robbery in broad > daylight. > > Daniel > > On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 at 08:22, Brian Sowers wrote: > >> One pressing question that may undermine this ?initiative?: has AFRINIC >> agreed to this process? While this is an initiative from certain resource >> members in the community, there needs to have been explicit consent from >> AFRINIC because it cannot fully account for these donations if ever. Who >> has received this consent from AFRINIC to push through with this initiative? >> >> -Brian >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -- BukkieO. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Fri Aug 20 12:12:59 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2021 15:12:59 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Answers to Community Questions Regarding - FUNDRAISING TO SUPPORT AFRINIC Message-ID: Dear Internet Community, *Af-IX*, in collaboration with our partners, have embarked on a *fundraising exercise* to help keep AFRINIC?s core functions and services running for the next three months. *We invite you to be part of the community of supporters to ensure that AFRINIC can continue to play its vital role for the sustainable digital growth in Africa.* *DONATE TO KEEP AFRINIC UP BY CLICKING THIS LINK;* *https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 * *Answers to Community Questions Regarding FUNDRAISING TO SUPPORT AFRINIC* *1. Why don?t you let AFNOG do this? * The Af-IX is one of the many Af* organisations that bring together ISP Associations and IXP operators together with a shared interest of keeping AFRICAN traffic local within the AFRINIC service region. To this end, the Af-IX and its partners embarked on this voluntary exercise to ensure that AFRINIC core-functions remain uninterrupted in this time through this fundraising and donation process. Sister Af* organisations are similarly free to coordinate the best they can to support AFRINIC in this time so as to keep AFRINIC up and running. *2. Can the organisers look at making this like a crowdsourced loan? * The Af-IX, its partners and its secretariat TESPOK is currently supporting the available options of donation from the Internet community only. The payment options are Bank Transfers, Mobile Money Transfer and Paypal for Mastercard + VISA. Kindly refer to the fundraising page here https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 *3. What is the legal position on the Af-IX and its partners undertaking this fundraising? * Legally, AF-IX and it's partners are at liberty to support AFRINIC's operations. There is nothing to stop Af-IX from fundraising to keep critical operations running. The ongoing legal proceedings in Mauritius have minimal impact in terms of risks to both Af-IX and it's partners as they support AFRINIC since these parties are not established in Mauritius. *4. Will the funds be deposited into the existing AFRINIC account(s) which have been frozen?* The donations from the Af-IX based fundraising campaign that is being managed by TESPOK will be deposited into the bank account below based in Nairobi Kenya. Account name TECHNOLOGY SERVICE PROVIDERS OF KENYA LTD Bankers: NCBA BANK (k) PLC Bank Address: P.O BOX 30437 00100 NAIROBI *6. How much is the target for fundraising?* The Af-IX and its partners are running a campaign to help raise $300,000 and more during the next 3 months. *7. Did AFRINIC request Af-IX to collect funds on their behalf? * It's very important to note that *AFRINIC HAS NEVER REQUESTED OR AUTHORIZED* the Af-IX or any of its partners to run the fundraising or request for donation. This is an initiative of goodwill on the part of the ISP associations and the IXP's involved. We take it as our responsibility to ensure that AFRINIC core functions that the Af-IX members depend on, from WHOIS, RDNS, RPKI infrastructure hosted in various data centers and the employees that work hard to make AFRINIC provide its core functions, continue to be taken care of. In fact the *Universal Declaration of Human Rights*, has enshrined in *Article 23*; https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights "*Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection.*" AFRINIC staff just like all of us are human and deserve care and as a community, this is why we have initiated this fundraising as a responsible community. *8. How much is the monthly salary, rent and legal expenses for Afrinic?* Please refer to AFRINIC budget here; https://afrinic.net/ast/pdf/financial-reports/afrinic-budget-2021.pdf *9. Is fundraising by Af-IX partners in any way contempt of the Mauritius Court?* Fundraising and donations activities are a community and social endeavour of goodwill. The Af-IX and its partners have taken upon themselves to drive this fundraising as a group of responsible organizations with a common shared goal of ensuring that AFRINIC the regional Internet registry for AFRICA remains UP and RUNNING for the best interest of the entire global Internet community. *10. What will happen to any donations that turn out to be not required by Afrinic once their accounts become accessible to it again?* Once the AFRINIC accounts freeze is lifted, the collection platform shall be brought down to stop any receiving of funds. In the event that there shall be donations already collected, these shall cover any pending request for payments that may have been received at that point in time and remaining funds submitted to AFRINIC. *Copies of all transactions incoming and outgoing will be accessible via a report on the fundraising website.* *11. Will TESPOK require any of the donated funds for administration of this campaign?* TESPOK has already made an initial donation for the cost to set up the system not considering the man-hours put in to work on the system integration. TESPOK Board of Directors has set a maximum limit of its services and expenses for this campaign to the required in-kind support of staff hours and the payment gateway. TESPOK expects that the transaction cost via various finance service providers shall be covered from the donations (card transaction fees, bank charges and PayPal transaction fees). *12. Will the funds collected be safe from attacks similar to the one launched at Afrinic via the Mauritian legal system?* Kenya is a signatory to the *Geneva Convention* and has established statutes over the years that recognise and provide appropriate protection to international and regional entities that are both government in nature and Non-government organisations. AFRINIC, though not established in Kenya, runs critical operations with an impact that goes beyond any individual country in the African region. *The donation funds being collected to keep AFRINIC's critical operations running are protected under these statutes.* *13. How will the community be informed about the amounts donated and disbursed?* TESPOK will publish the total amount donated from both individuals and corporates and the total amount disbursed on the donation web page every 2 days. https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 The names of individual donors will not be published to align with the *Kenya Data Protection Act of 2019*. *We would also like to share with the members and the Internet community the names of the liaisons from the Af-IX and its partners who are volunteering to coordinate this fundraising campaign.* *Af-IX Fundraising Oversight Committees* ---------------------------------------------------------- 1. Fiona Asonga - TESPOK Kenya (*The* *Fundraising* *Secretariat*) 2. Nishal Goburdhan - INX South Africa 3. Noah Maina - TISPA 4. Kyle Spencer - Af-IX 5. Frank Habicht - TIX Tanzania 6. Muhammed Rudman - IXPN Nigeria 7. Darwin Da Costa & Silvio Almada - ISPA Angola 8. Nico TSHINTU BAKAJIKA - ISPA DRC Cheers, Noah On Behalf of the Af-IX Team -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hjul.paul at gmail.com Fri Aug 20 12:48:30 2021 From: hjul.paul at gmail.com (Paul Hjul) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2021 14:48:30 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING - - moving to St Kitts & Nevis ?? Message-ID: > > In fact, if this entire sad episode has taught us anything, it is that all > five of the Regional Internet Registries should at all times hold bank > balances ONLY in Nevis & St. Kitts, where those bank balances would be > essentially immune from any and all legal encumbrances. No idea why you are assuming St Kitts would as a jurisdiction be able to be used by RIRs to harbour an effective bank account to shield themselves from being accountable in the courts where the RIR is incorporated. Sure, Nevis has some oddities for recognition of foreign judgments but this isn't particularly unique to the jurisdiction and sure there is a 100k USD bond which a plaintiff will need to file but neither would step in to prevent something on these facts. Private persons and wealthy families may look to shelter assets in a Nevis trust but that's hardly the same thing as a multinational organization which is contractually obliged and member based. For one thing if an organization's only assets are entirely out of the reach of any creditor then no supplier can interact in good faith. What is the point in having assets tucked away on one island when you have to pay your staff on another island. If anything St Kitts & Nevis has an even stronger mareva injunction than Mauritius if the suit is being brought wholly in their courts (well the East Caribbean Supreme Court and as with Mauritius ultimately the JCPC) so on the facts in issue - Afrinic's board acting in bad faith to cause harm to the rights of a member - exactly the same outcome of a frozen bank account would happen. Except that that people would be showing contempt to the Caribbean Courts rather than the Mauritius ones. The simpler solution is that the RIRs need to behave in a responsible, rational, accountable and lawful manner. It really isn't hard. Rather than trying to figure out how to game the system the best advise any honest person should be giving is from the great sergeant of law a and pet detective Jim Carey "Stop breaking the law, a$$****" Paul -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Fri Aug 20 16:34:51 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2021 09:34:51 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: References: <11F6DBAF-BED3-4DF8-8C02-60656EF8D365@gmail.com> Message-ID: I am confused? How is a question about consent an attempt to kill AFRINIC? Is AFRINIC so fragile that it cannot withstand a simple question of its consent and cooperation in a process initiated by third parties allegedly on its behalf? I would think not. If it is so fragile, then there are much bigger problems than its financial state. Owen > On Aug 20, 2021, at 00:17 , AMADU YUSIF wrote: > > Daniel, I strongly agree with you. Some members here from their actions wants to kill AFRINIC > > Get Outlook for Android > From: DANIEL NANGHAKA > Sent: Friday, August 20, 2021 6:07:58 AM > To: Brian Sowers > Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING > > I do not understand what is wrong with some members on this list. Their actions show they want to kill AFRINIC. > If they are not in support of sustainability - why don't they move to the other regions where they want to migrate or want the region to take over AFRINIC. > In the history of the creation of AFRINIC, AFRINIC was created to manage Resources that were designated to Africa. > So, those who want to use African resources in other regions, let them leave African resources and look for resources in those respective regions. > Otherwise, we are seeing IP colonialism, theft and robbery in broad daylight. > > Daniel > > On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 at 08:22, Brian Sowers > wrote: > One pressing question that may undermine this ?initiative?: has AFRINIC agreed to this process? While this is an initiative from certain resource members in the community, there needs to have been explicit consent from AFRINIC because it cannot fully account for these donations if ever. Who has received this consent from AFRINIC to push through with this initiative? > > -Brian > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From madomey at hotmail.com Fri Aug 20 16:45:59 2021 From: madomey at hotmail.com (Marcus K. G. Adomey) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2021 16:45:59 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: References: <11F6DBAF-BED3-4DF8-8C02-60656EF8D365@gmail.com> Message-ID: Owen, Please don't use any email to run away from the questions John and I asked you in two different emails. The community needs the answers. Be serious!!! Marcus Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss Sent: Friday, August 20, 2021 4:34:51 PM To: AMADU YUSIF Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC ; Brian Sowers Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING I am confused? How is a question about consent an attempt to kill AFRINIC? Is AFRINIC so fragile that it cannot withstand a simple question of its consent and cooperation in a process initiated by third parties allegedly on its behalf? I would think not. If it is so fragile, then there are much bigger problems than its financial state. Owen On Aug 20, 2021, at 00:17 , AMADU YUSIF > wrote: Daniel, I strongly agree with you. Some members here from their actions wants to kill AFRINIC Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: DANIEL NANGHAKA > Sent: Friday, August 20, 2021 6:07:58 AM To: Brian Sowers > Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING I do not understand what is wrong with some members on this list. Their actions show they want to kill AFRINIC. If they are not in support of sustainability - why don't they move to the other regions where they want to migrate or want the region to take over AFRINIC. In the history of the creation of AFRINIC, AFRINIC was created to manage Resources that were designated to Africa. So, those who want to use African resources in other regions, let them leave African resources and look for resources in those respective regions. Otherwise, we are seeing IP colonialism, theft and robbery in broad daylight. Daniel On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 at 08:22, Brian Sowers > wrote: One pressing question that may undermine this ?initiative?: has AFRINIC agreed to this process? While this is an initiative from certain resource members in the community, there needs to have been explicit consent from AFRINIC because it cannot fully account for these donations if ever. Who has received this consent from AFRINIC to push through with this initiative? -Brian _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Boubakar.Barry at wacren.net Fri Aug 20 19:08:11 2021 From: Boubakar.Barry at wacren.net (Boubakar Barry) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2021 19:08:11 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: References: <11F6DBAF-BED3-4DF8-8C02-60656EF8D365@gmail.com> Message-ID: Owen, On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 4:36 PM Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss < community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > I am confused? How is a question about consent an attempt to kill AFRINIC? > > Is AFRINIC so fragile that it cannot withstand a simple question of its > consent and cooperation in a process initiated by third parties allegedly > on its behalf? > You were asked a simpler question and you fail to respond. Boubakar > I would think not. If it is so fragile, then there are much bigger > problems than its financial state. > > Owen > > > On Aug 20, 2021, at 00:17 , AMADU YUSIF wrote: > > Daniel, I strongly agree with you. Some members here from their actions > wants to kill AFRINIC > > Get Outlook for Android > ------------------------------ > *From:* DANIEL NANGHAKA > *Sent:* Friday, August 20, 2021 6:07:58 AM > *To:* Brian Sowers > *Cc:* General Discussions of AFRINIC > *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP > AFRINIC RUNNING > > I do not understand what is wrong with some members on this list. Their > actions show they want to kill AFRINIC. > If they are not in support of sustainability - why don't they move to the > other regions where they want to migrate or want the region to take over > AFRINIC. > In the history of the creation of AFRINIC, AFRINIC was created to manage > Resources that were designated to Africa. > So, those who want to use African resources in other regions, let them > leave African resources and look for resources in those respective regions. > Otherwise, we are seeing IP colonialism, theft and robbery in broad > daylight. > > Daniel > > On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 at 08:22, Brian Sowers wrote: > > One pressing question that may undermine this ?initiative?: has AFRINIC > agreed to this process? While this is an initiative from certain resource > members in the community, there needs to have been explicit consent from > AFRINIC because it cannot fully account for these donations if ever. Who > has received this consent from AFRINIC to push through with this initiative? > > -Brian > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -- CEO/Directeur G?n?ral, WACREN Web: http://www.wacren.net ***Keep it simple, as simple as possible, but not simpler. (A. Einstein)*** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mirriamlauren at yahoo.com Fri Aug 20 19:42:26 2021 From: mirriamlauren at yahoo.com (Mirriam) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2021 19:42:26 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: References: <11F6DBAF-BED3-4DF8-8C02-60656EF8D365@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1986937354.363562.1629488546353@mail.yahoo.com> Dear Boubakar, The wise elders have always advised? "never to bite the hand that feeds you" and I totally understand Owen Delong's silence :-) during these tough times. Honesty is not for the faint-hearted. Mirriam. On Friday, August 20, 2021, 10:08:47 PM GMT+3, Boubakar Barry wrote: Owen, On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 4:36 PM Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss wrote: I am confused? How is a question about consent an attempt to kill AFRINIC? Is AFRINIC so fragile that it cannot withstand a simple question of its consent and cooperation in a process initiated by third parties allegedly on its behalf? You were asked a simpler question and you fail to respond. Boubakar I would think not. If it is so fragile, then there are much bigger problems than its financial state. Owen On Aug 20, 2021, at 00:17 , AMADU YUSIF wrote: Daniel, I strongly agree with you. Some members here from their actions wants to kill AFRINIC? Get Outlook for AndroidFrom: DANIEL NANGHAKA Sent: Friday, August 20, 2021 6:07:58 AM To: Brian Sowers Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING?I do not understand what is wrong with some members?on this list. Their actions show they want to kill AFRINIC.?If they are not in support of sustainability - why don't they move to the other regions where they want to migrate or want the region to take over AFRINIC.?In the history of the creation of AFRINIC, AFRINIC was created to manage Resources that were designated to Africa.?So, those who want to use African resources in other regions, let them leave African resources and look for resources in those respective regions.Otherwise, we are seeing IP colonialism, theft and robbery in broad daylight. Daniel? On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 at 08:22, Brian Sowers wrote: One pressing question that may undermine this ?initiative?: has AFRINIC agreed to this process? While this is an initiative from certain resource members in the community, there needs to have been explicit consent from AFRINIC because it cannot fully account for these donations if ever. Who has received this consent from AFRINIC to push through with this initiative? -Brian _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -- CEO/Directeur G?n?ral, WACREN Web: http://www.wacren.net ***Keep it simple, as simple as possible, but not simpler. (A. Einstein)*** _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sami.salih at outlook.com Fri Aug 20 21:10:54 2021 From: sami.salih at outlook.com (Sami Salih) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2021 21:10:54 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Answers to Community Questions Regarding - FUNDRAISING TO SUPPORT AFRINIC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ??????? ????? ????????? ???? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ????????? ???????? - ??????? (AFRINIC) ??????? ?? ????? ?????? ???????? ?? ?????? ?????????? ??? ?? ???? ??????? ??? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? ??????? ????????. ?? ???? ????? ??????? ???? ?? ??????? ??????? ?? ???????? ????? ???? ????????? ????? ?? ???? ????? ??????? ?????? ??? ?? ???? ?????? ?????? ????? ??????? ???? ??????? ??? ???? ?????? ??????? ????? ????????. ??? ????????? ???????? ???? ?? ????? ??? ??????? ?????? ??????????? ???????. ??? ?? ??? ??????? ?? ????? ???? ???????? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ??????. ?????? ???? ?? ????? ????????? ??? ?? ???? ????? ?? ???? ??????? ?? ??????? ????? ??? ?????? ????? ??????? ???? ????? ?? ???? ????? ?? ????? ???????. ??? ??? ??????? ?????? ????????? ???? ?? ???? ??? ????????? ?? ???? ??? ??????? ???????? ????? ???? ??? ?? ??? ??? ???? ???????. ????? ???? ????? ?????? ????? ???????? ????????? (Af-IX) ???????? ?? ??????? ?? ??? ???????? ???????? ?? ?????? ??? ??????? ??? ??????? ?????? ??????? ??????? . ?????? ????? ??????? ????????? ????? ????? ???? ????? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ????? ?? ????? ?????? ????? ????? ???????? (IPv4 ? IPv6 ? ASN) ?? ??????? ?? ??? ????? ???????? ?????? ?? ?????? ?????????. ?????? ??????? ??? ???????? ????? ??????? ??????? ?? ??? ????? ?????? ?????? ????? ?????? ???????? ?? ???????. ???? ?????? ??? AFRINIC ?????? ??? ??? ?????? https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 ????? ?????? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ?????. ???? ??????? ??????? ???? ?? ????? ???? ?????? ?? ???? ???? ??????? ??????? ???????? ?? AFRINIC. ?????? Af-IX ?? ??? ???????? ??? ????? ????? ??????????? ?? ????? - TESPOK ????? ????? ????? ???????? ?? ??????? ISP - TISPA ????? ????? ????? ???????? ?? ?????? ISP - AAPSI ???? ????? ???????? ?? ??????? ? IXPN ?????? ??? ??????? ??????? ?? ????? ?? ??????? ???? ?? ??? ?? ??????? ?? ???? ?????? ?????? ?????????? ??????? ?????: info at af-ix.net | tespok at tespok.co.ke | security at tispa.or.tz | secretariado at aapsi.og.ao | info at ixp.net.ng #??????_??????? #StandwithAFRINIC ?????? ???? ??????? ??????? ???? ????? ???? ??????? ???? ??????? 1. ????? ?? ??? AFNOG ???? ???? ?????? ??? Af-IX ????? ?? ?????? ?? ???????? Af * ???? ???? ??? ?????? ISP ?????? IXP ????? ??? ??? ?? ????? ?????? ????? ?? ????? ???? ?????? ?? ??????? ????? ???? ????? ?????? AFRINIC. ?????? ???? ?????? ? ???? Af-IX ???????? ?? ??? ??????? ??????? ????? ???? ????? AFRINIC ???????? ??? ?????? ?? ??? ????? ?? ???? ????? ??? ???????? ?????????. ????? ???????? ??????? * ?????? ????? ????? ???? ?? ?? ????? ???? AFRINIC ?? ??? ????? ?? ??? ?????? ??? AFRINIC ????????. 2. ?? ???? ???????? ????? ?? ??????? ????? ????? ???????? ???? Af-IX ??????? ??????? TESPOK ?????? ???????? ??????? ?????? ?? ????? ???????? ???. ?????? ????? ?? ????????? ???????? ?????? ??????? ??? ?????? ??????? ? Paypal ?????????? + ????. ???? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ???????? ??? https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 3. ?? ?? ?????? ???????? ?? Af-IX ???????? ????? ?????? ???? ??????? ???? ?? ??????? ????????? ? ????? AF-IX ???????? ????? ??? ?????? AFRINIC. ??? ???? ?? ???? Af-IX ?? ??? ???????? ?????? ??? ??? ???????? ???????. ????????? ????????? ??????? ?? ???????? ??? ????? ???? ?? ??? ??????? ??? ?? ?? Af-IX ???????? ????? ?????? AFRINIC ??? ??? ??????? ?? ??? ??????? ?? ????????. 4. ?? ???? ????? ??????? ?? ???? (??????) AFRINIC ?????? ???? ?? ??????? ???? ????? ???????? ?? ???? ??? ???????? ??????? ??? Af-IX ????? ?????? TESPOK ?? ?????? ??????? ????? ????? ?? ?????? ?????. ??? ?????? TECHNOLOGY SERVICE PROVIDERS OF KENYA LTD ?????????: ??? NCBA (k) PLC ????? ?????: ????? ???? 30437 00100 ?????? 5. ?? ?? ????? ?? ??? ????????? ???? Af-IX ???????? ???? ???????? ?? ??? 300000 ????? ????? ???? ?????? ??????? ???????. 6. ?? ???? AFRINIC ?? Af-IX ??? ??????? ????? ????? ?? ????? ???? ?????? ?? AFRINIC ?? ???? ?? ???? ?????? ?? Af-IX ?? ?? ?? ??????? ?????? ??? ???????? ?? ??? ??????. ??? ?? ?????? ??? ????? ?? ???? ?????? ????? ???? ???????? ? IXP ?????????. ??? ???? ??? ?????? ??????? ???? ?? ????? AFRINIC ???????? ???? ????? ????? ????? Af-IX ? ?? ?????? ??????? ?? WHOIS ? RDNS ? RPKI ????????? ?? ????? ???????? ???????? ????????? ????? ?????? ??? ???? AFRINIC ???? ??????? ???????? ? ?? ?????? ??????? ?. ?? ?????? ? ??????? ??????? ????? ??????? ? ??????? ???? ?? ?????? 23 ? https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-decisions-of-human-rights "??? ??? ???? ???? ?? ??? ???? ????? ???? ?? ??????? ???? ????? ???????? ????????? ? ??????? ? ??? ??? ????? ? ?????? ???? ?? ??????? ??????????". ????? AFRINIC ?????? ????? ?????? ??? ???????? ???????? ????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ???????? ?????? ?????. 7. ?? ?? ?????? ?????? ???????? ?????????? ????????? ? ??????? ? ???? ?????? ??? ???????? ??????? ??? ? https://afrinic.net/ast/pdf/financial-reports/afrinic-budget-2021.pdf 8. ?? ??? ??????? ?? ??? ????? Af-IX ??? ??? ?? ??????? ?????? ?????? ????????? ????? ??? ???????? ????????? ?? ???? ??????? ????????? ???? ??? ??? ?????. ??? ??? Af-IX ??????? ??? ?????? ????? ????? ??? ??????? ??? ??????? ?? ???????? ???????? ??? ????? ??????? ??????? ??????? ?? ???? ???? AFRINIC ??? ???????? ???????? ???????? ??????? ?? ??? ??????? ?????? ?????? ???????? ??????? ?????? . 9. ???? ????? ??? ?????? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ??? ??????? ????? ???? ???????? ????? ??? ????? ????? ??? ????? ?????? AFRINIC ? ???? ????? ???? ??????? ?????? ?? ?????? ???????. ?? ???? ???? ?????? ?? ????? ??????? ??? ?? ???? ??? ???????? ?? ??? ???? ????????? ???? ???? ?? ???????? ?? ??? ????? ???????? ???????? ??????? ??? ???????. ???? ?????? ??? ??? ?? ???? ????????? ??????? ???????? ?? ???? ????? ??? ???? ??? ????????. 10. ?? ????? TESPOK ???? ?? ??????? ??????? ??? ?????? ??? ??????? ??? ???? TESPOK ?????? ?????? ?????? ????? ????? ????? ?????? ??? ? ????? ?? ????? ????? ???? ?? ????? ?? ????? ??? ????? ??????. ??? ???? ????? TESPOK ???? ???? ??????? ??????? ???? ?????? ????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ???????? ?????? ?????. ????? TESPOK ?? ??? ????? ????? ????????? ??? ????? ????? ??????? ??????? ?? ???????? (???? ??????? ??????? ? ??????? ???????? ????? ??????? PayPal). 11. ?? ??????? ???? ?? ????? ????? ?? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ?? ??????? ??? ????? ??? ?????? ???????? ?? ????????? ????? ?? ???? ????? ??????? ??? ??????? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ??? ?? ?????? ????? ????? ??????? ???????? ???????? ??????? ?????????? ???? ?? ?????? ???????? ??????? ??? ??????. ???? AFRINIC ? ??? ????? ?? ??? ??????? ?? ????? ? ?????? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ???? ?? ??????? ?????????. ??? ????? ????? ???????? ???? ??? ????? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? AFRINIC ??????? ????? ??? ????????. 12. ??? ???? ????? ??????? ???????? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ??????????? ????? TESPOK ?????? ???????? ??????? ?? ?? ?? ?? ??????? ???????? ??????? ???????? ??????? ??? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ?????. https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 ?? ??? ??? ????? ????????? ??????? ??????? ?? ????? ????? ???????? ?????? ???? 2019. ??? ????? ?? ????? ?? ??????? ?????? ???????? ????? ?????? ??????? ?? Af-IX ???????? ????? ??????? ?????? ???? ??? ???????? ???. ???? ??????? ??? ??? ??????? -------------------------------------------------- -------- 1. Fiona Asonga - TESPOK Kenya (????? ??? ????????) 2. Nishal Goburdhan - INX South Africa 3. ??? ????? - TISPA 4. ???? ????? - Af-IX 5. ????? ??????? - ???? ??????? 6. ???? ?????? - IXPN Nigeria 7. ?????? ?? ????? ??????? ?????? - ISPA ?????? 8. ???? TSHINTU BAKAJIKA - ISPA DRC ?????? ??? ????? ?? ???? Af-IX ________________________________ From: Noah Sent: Friday, August 20, 2021 3:12 PM To: General Discussions of AFRINIC Subject: [Community-Discuss] Answers to Community Questions Regarding - FUNDRAISING TO SUPPORT AFRINIC Dear Internet Community, Af-IX, in collaboration with our partners, have embarked on a fundraising exercise to help keep AFRINIC?s core functions and services running for the next three months. We invite you to be part of the community of supporters to ensure that AFRINIC can continue to play its vital role for the sustainable digital growth in Africa. DONATE TO KEEP AFRINIC UP BY CLICKING THIS LINK; https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 Answers to Community Questions Regarding FUNDRAISING TO SUPPORT AFRINIC 1. Why don?t you let AFNOG do this? The Af-IX is one of the many Af* organisations that bring together ISP Associations and IXP operators together with a shared interest of keeping AFRICAN traffic local within the AFRINIC service region. To this end, the Af-IX and its partners embarked on this voluntary exercise to ensure that AFRINIC core-functions remain uninterrupted in this time through this fundraising and donation process. Sister Af* organisations are similarly free to coordinate the best they can to support AFRINIC in this time so as to keep AFRINIC up and running. 2. Can the organisers look at making this like a crowdsourced loan? The Af-IX, its partners and its secretariat TESPOK is currently supporting the available options of donation from the Internet community only. The payment options are Bank Transfers, Mobile Money Transfer and Paypal for Mastercard + VISA. Kindly refer to the fundraising page here https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 3. What is the legal position on the Af-IX and its partners undertaking this fundraising? Legally, AF-IX and it's partners are at liberty to support AFRINIC's operations. There is nothing to stop Af-IX from fundraising to keep critical operations running. The ongoing legal proceedings in Mauritius have minimal impact in terms of risks to both Af-IX and it's partners as they support AFRINIC since these parties are not established in Mauritius. 4. Will the funds be deposited into the existing AFRINIC account(s) which have been frozen? The donations from the Af-IX based fundraising campaign that is being managed by TESPOK will be deposited into the bank account below based in Nairobi Kenya. Account name TECHNOLOGY SERVICE PROVIDERS OF KENYA LTD Bankers: NCBA BANK (k) PLC Bank Address: P.O BOX 30437 00100 NAIROBI 6. How much is the target for fundraising? The Af-IX and its partners are running a campaign to help raise $300,000 and more during the next 3 months. 7. Did AFRINIC request Af-IX to collect funds on their behalf? It's very important to note that AFRINIC HAS NEVER REQUESTED OR AUTHORIZED the Af-IX or any of its partners to run the fundraising or request for donation. This is an initiative of goodwill on the part of the ISP associations and the IXP's involved. We take it as our responsibility to ensure that AFRINIC core functions that the Af-IX members depend on, from WHOIS, RDNS, RPKI infrastructure hosted in various data centers and the employees that work hard to make AFRINIC provide its core functions, continue to be taken care of. In fact the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, has enshrined in Article 23; https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights "Everyone who works has the right to just and favourable remuneration ensuring for himself and his family an existence worthy of human dignity, and supplemented, if necessary, by other means of social protection." AFRINIC staff just like all of us are human and deserve care and as a community, this is why we have initiated this fundraising as a responsible community. 8. How much is the monthly salary, rent and legal expenses for Afrinic? Please refer to AFRINIC budget here; https://afrinic.net/ast/pdf/financial-reports/afrinic-budget-2021.pdf 9. Is fundraising by Af-IX partners in any way contempt of the Mauritius Court? Fundraising and donations activities are a community and social endeavour of goodwill. The Af-IX and its partners have taken upon themselves to drive this fundraising as a group of responsible organizations with a common shared goal of ensuring that AFRINIC the regional Internet registry for AFRICA remains UP and RUNNING for the best interest of the entire global Internet community. 10. What will happen to any donations that turn out to be not required by Afrinic once their accounts become accessible to it again? Once the AFRINIC accounts freeze is lifted, the collection platform shall be brought down to stop any receiving of funds. In the event that there shall be donations already collected, these shall cover any pending request for payments that may have been received at that point in time and remaining funds submitted to AFRINIC. Copies of all transactions incoming and outgoing will be accessible via a report on the fundraising website. 11. Will TESPOK require any of the donated funds for administration of this campaign? TESPOK has already made an initial donation for the cost to set up the system not considering the man-hours put in to work on the system integration. TESPOK Board of Directors has set a maximum limit of its services and expenses for this campaign to the required in-kind support of staff hours and the payment gateway. TESPOK expects that the transaction cost via various finance service providers shall be covered from the donations (card transaction fees, bank charges and PayPal transaction fees). 12. Will the funds collected be safe from attacks similar to the one launched at Afrinic via the Mauritian legal system? Kenya is a signatory to the Geneva Convention and has established statutes over the years that recognise and provide appropriate protection to international and regional entities that are both government in nature and Non-government organisations. AFRINIC, though not established in Kenya, runs critical operations with an impact that goes beyond any individual country in the African region. The donation funds being collected to keep AFRINIC's critical operations running are protected under these statutes. 13. How will the community be informed about the amounts donated and disbursed? TESPOK will publish the total amount donated from both individuals and corporates and the total amount disbursed on the donation web page every 2 days. https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 The names of individual donors will not be published to align with the Kenya Data Protection Act of 2019. We would also like to share with the members and the Internet community the names of the liaisons from the Af-IX and its partners who are volunteering to coordinate this fundraising campaign. Af-IX Fundraising Oversight Committees ---------------------------------------------------------- 1. Fiona Asonga - TESPOK Kenya (The Fundraising Secretariat) 2. Nishal Goburdhan - INX South Africa 3. Noah Maina - TISPA 4. Kyle Spencer - Af-IX 5. Frank Habicht - TIX Tanzania 6. Muhammed Rudman - IXPN Nigeria 7. Darwin Da Costa & Silvio Almada - ISPA Angola 8. Nico TSHINTU BAKAJIKA - ISPA DRC Cheers, Noah On Behalf of the Af-IX Team -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From b.sowers154 at gmail.com Fri Aug 20 21:58:29 2021 From: b.sowers154 at gmail.com (Brian Sowers) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2021 17:58:29 -0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING Message-ID: Bukola, A mailing list is a sounding board for members to voice their opinions. Normally I wouldn?t care about this initiative, but unless AFRINIC undergoes a change of culture away from its history of fraud, opaqueness, and scandals, I will continue to voice my opinion. Why send funds to an organization that wouldn?t be out of its character to siphon away or skim off the top of for private interests? This initiative is to maintain the status quo and is one I don?t agree with. This community mustn?t forget that change is good lest it suffers from the same pattern of ill-advised policy, corruption, and fraud. It is quite possible for a RIR undergoing litigation to bypass scrutiny from the community concerning its financial matters, but not now with AFRINIC. -Brian From madomey at hotmail.com Fri Aug 20 23:04:38 2021 From: madomey at hotmail.com (Marcus K. G. Adomey) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2021 23:04:38 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Brian, You wrote "Normally I wouldn?t care about this initiative, but unless AFRINIC undergoes a change of culture away from its history of fraud, opaqueness, and scandals, I will continue to voice my opinion." I would like to join you in this fight BUT before I do so, please, prove beyond reasonable doubt that the current Administration and Board have indulged in fraud, opaqueness and scandal as you claim. Thank you, Marcus Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Brian Sowers Sent: Friday, August 20, 2021 9:58:29 PM To: community-discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING Bukola, A mailing list is a sounding board for members to voice their opinions. Normally I wouldn?t care about this initiative, but unless AFRINIC undergoes a change of culture away from its history of fraud, opaqueness, and scandals, I will continue to voice my opinion. Why send funds to an organization that wouldn?t be out of its character to siphon away or skim off the top of for private interests? This initiative is to maintain the status quo and is one I don?t agree with. This community mustn?t forget that change is good lest it suffers from the same pattern of ill-advised policy, corruption, and fraud. It is quite possible for a RIR undergoing litigation to bypass scrutiny from the community concerning its financial matters, but not now with AFRINIC. -Brian _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From b.sowers154 at gmail.com Sat Aug 21 21:33:23 2021 From: b.sowers154 at gmail.com (Brian Sowers) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 17:33:23 -0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING Message-ID: Marcus, https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-August/004717.html I encourage you to look at numbered items 3, 4, 5, and 6 in which Taiwo has generously provided a concise description of the current administration?s actions. As for its past historical actions described by 1 and 2, these have been corroborated by Ronald?s own sleuth work. In my opinion, proponents to maintain the status quo are apologists. The data is here; I urge you to construct your position as you see fit. -Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yamadu at ug.edu.gh Sun Aug 22 04:58:30 2021 From: yamadu at ug.edu.gh (AMADU YUSIF) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 04:58:30 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: <1986937354.363562.1629488546353@mail.yahoo.com> References: <11F6DBAF-BED3-4DF8-8C02-60656EF8D365@gmail.com> <1986937354.363562.1629488546353@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I think we should concentrate more on how to support AFRNIC to stand on its feet during this crisis and ignore the doom prophets. Yusif Amadu eLearning Unit University of Ghana Computing Systems University of Ghana Cell: +233244659245 Skype: kooissi ________________________________ From: Mirriam via Community-Discuss Sent: Friday, August 20, 2021 10:42 AM To: Owen DeLong ; Boubakar Barry Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING Dear Boubakar, The wise elders have always advised "never to bite the hand that feeds you" and I totally understand Owen Delong's silence :-) during these tough times. Honesty is not for the faint-hearted. Mirriam. On Friday, August 20, 2021, 10:08:47 PM GMT+3, Boubakar Barry wrote: Owen, On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 4:36 PM Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss > wrote: I am confused? How is a question about consent an attempt to kill AFRINIC? Is AFRINIC so fragile that it cannot withstand a simple question of its consent and cooperation in a process initiated by third parties allegedly on its behalf? You were asked a simpler question and you fail to respond. Boubakar I would think not. If it is so fragile, then there are much bigger problems than its financial state. Owen On Aug 20, 2021, at 00:17 , AMADU YUSIF > wrote: Daniel, I strongly agree with you. Some members here from their actions wants to kill AFRINIC Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: DANIEL NANGHAKA > Sent: Friday, August 20, 2021 6:07:58 AM To: Brian Sowers > Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING I do not understand what is wrong with some members on this list. Their actions show they want to kill AFRINIC. If they are not in support of sustainability - why don't they move to the other regions where they want to migrate or want the region to take over AFRINIC. In the history of the creation of AFRINIC, AFRINIC was created to manage Resources that were designated to Africa. So, those who want to use African resources in other regions, let them leave African resources and look for resources in those respective regions. Otherwise, we are seeing IP colonialism, theft and robbery in broad daylight. Daniel On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 at 08:22, Brian Sowers > wrote: One pressing question that may undermine this ?initiative?: has AFRINIC agreed to this process? While this is an initiative from certain resource members in the community, there needs to have been explicit consent from AFRINIC because it cannot fully account for these donations if ever. Who has received this consent from AFRINIC to push through with this initiative? -Brian _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -- CEO/Directeur G?n?ral, WACREN Web: http://www.wacren.net ***Keep it simple, as simple as possible, but not simpler. (A. Einstein)*** _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From abscoco at gmail.com Sun Aug 22 08:07:25 2021 From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain Baya) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 09:07:25 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: References: <11F6DBAF-BED3-4DF8-8C02-60656EF8D365@gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear AfriNIC's Community, Please find my comments below, inline... Le ven. 20 ao?t 2021 ? 17:36, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss < community-discuss at afrinic.net> a ?crit : > I am confused? How is a question about consent an attempt to kill AFRINIC? > > Hi Owen, ...brother, thanks for you email. Please add the context; then you'll become less confused :'-( > Is AFRINIC so fragile that it cannot withstand a simple question of its > consent > AfriNIC needs to be defended these hard times and it appears that some of us are doing very well *our* common duty (protecting our RIR against 'predators') as a *community*. (You should have been proud of them :'-() ...i found it admirable! and i wouldn't like to cross their way; while they are defending AfriNIC...not you? Feel free to continue to defend your champion, though... > and cooperation in a process initiated by third parties allegedly on its > behalf? > > Question already answered here [1]! please let's know if it isn't enough for you. ...btw! it appears that someone should show its good faith, by answering a simple question [2][3] which become recurrent about: *The Purpose* [4] :-/ Maybe this is a good time for your champion to step-in? or...are you simply not mandated to answer this particularily hot question? Ok! difficult question...i assume, given your hasty try here [5] :-/ __ [1]: [2]: [3]: [4]: [5]: > I would think not. If it is so fragile, then there are much bigger > problems than its financial state. > > Owen, could you, please, elaborate a bit more on the above? ...i can not wait to hear what you are predicting for the Future of AfriNIC [6] and of the RFC7020. Please, be examplarily transparent :'-( Don't run away! __ [6]: Isn't it ("INRs War") an open war, in fine? ...again, no divertion! this very thread is about: ?FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING?? ~?~ *You can choose to donate any amount via the URL below where you will * *find all different options. The funds collected will be used to support the * *team by ensuring the core functions of AFRINIC continue without risk.* *DONATE TO KEEP AFRINIC UP BY CLICKING THIS LINK;* *https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 * ~?~ Shalom, --sb. > Owen > > > On Aug 20, 2021, at 00:17 , AMADU YUSIF wrote: > > Daniel, I strongly agree with you. Some members here from their actions > wants to kill AFRINIC > > [...] > > -- Best Regards ! baya.sylvain [AT cmNOG DOT cm] |cmNOG's Structure |cmNOG's Surveys Subscribe to the cmNOG's Mailing List __ *#?LASAINTEBIBLE?|?#?Romains15?:33?*Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec vous tous! ?#?Amen?!*??#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement??*Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!*? (#Psaumes42:2)* -- -- Best Regards ! __ baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]| Subscribe to Mailing List: __ #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|#?Romains15?:33?Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec vous tous! ?#?Amen?!? ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement? ?Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!?(#Psaumes42:2) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Sun Aug 22 17:06:20 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 10:06:20 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: References: <11F6DBAF-BED3-4DF8-8C02-60656EF8D365@gmail.com> Message-ID: <380EB6B9-C2A2-4024-9364-08ABD359DD81@delong.com> > On Aug 22, 2021, at 01:07 , Sylvain Baya wrote: > > Dear AfriNIC's Community, > > Please find my comments below, inline... > > Le ven. 20 ao?t 2021 ? 17:36, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss > a ?crit : > I am confused? How is a question about consent an attempt to kill AFRINIC? > > > Hi Owen, > ...brother, thanks for you email. > > Please add the context; then you'll become less confused :'-( No, with the context, I still do not understand how a simple question constitutes an attempt to kill an RIR. Indeed, I find that it is people who are resistant to the idea of questioning an organization that are most likely to lead to said organizations demise or worse, its descent into corruption and malfeasance. > > > Is AFRINIC so fragile that it cannot withstand a simple question of its consent > > > AfriNIC needs to be defended these hard times and it appears that some of us > are doing very well *our* common duty (protecting our RIR against 'predators') > as a *community*. (You should have been proud of them :'-() > > ...i found it admirable! and i wouldn't like to cross their way; while they are > defending AfriNIC...not you? Feel free to continue to defend your champion, > though... From my perspective I am attempting to defend AFRINIC and it?s member base and community from a staff and board which are determined to violate the rules as written. > > > and cooperation in a process initiated by third parties allegedly on its behalf? > > > Question already answered here [1]! please let's know if it isn't enough for you. I didn?t say that the question wasn?t adequately answered. I questioned the person who characterized the asking of the question as an attempt to kill the RIR for that act. > I would think not. If it is so fragile, then there are much bigger problems than its financial state. > > > Owen, could you, please, elaborate a bit more on the above? > ...i can not wait to hear what you are predicting for the Future of AfriNIC [6] > and of the RFC7020. Please, be examplarily transparent :'-( > Don't run away! Because of my current role, I cannot further comment on the ongoing legal battle at this time. I predict errata will be filed against RFC-7020 because it claims to document the current state of the RIR system at the time of writing and the statement that global providers universally deal with multiple RIRs has incorrect implications and is not entirely accurate. There are plenty of global networks that deal with a single RIR and even those that deal with multiple RIRs do not necessarily deal with the RIR for each and every region where they operate. There is widespread use of addresses from every RIR in other regions, including a lot of address space in use within Africa that is issued by ARIN, RIPE, and APNIC. Owen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From madomey at hotmail.com Sun Aug 22 17:19:50 2021 From: madomey at hotmail.com (Marcus K. G. Adomey) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 17:19:50 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: <380EB6B9-C2A2-4024-9364-08ABD359DD81@delong.com> References: <11F6DBAF-BED3-4DF8-8C02-60656EF8D365@gmail.com> <380EB6B9-C2A2-4024-9364-08ABD359DD81@delong.com> Message-ID: Owen, Stop your diversionary tactics and provide answers to questions asked you. Marcus Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 5:06:20 PM To: Sylvain Baya Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC ; Brian Sowers Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING On Aug 22, 2021, at 01:07 , Sylvain Baya > wrote: Dear AfriNIC's Community, Please find my comments below, inline... Le ven. 20 ao?t 2021 ? 17:36, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss > a ?crit : I am confused? How is a question about consent an attempt to kill AFRINIC? Hi Owen, ...brother, thanks for you email. Please add the context; then you'll become less confused :'-( No, with the context, I still do not understand how a simple question constitutes an attempt to kill an RIR. Indeed, I find that it is people who are resistant to the idea of questioning an organization that are most likely to lead to said organizations demise or worse, its descent into corruption and malfeasance. Is AFRINIC so fragile that it cannot withstand a simple question of its consent AfriNIC needs to be defended these hard times and it appears that some of us are doing very well *our* common duty (protecting our RIR against 'predators') as a *community*. (You should have been proud of them :'-() ...i found it admirable! and i wouldn't like to cross their way; while they are defending AfriNIC...not you? Feel free to continue to defend your champion, though... >From my perspective I am attempting to defend AFRINIC and it?s member base and community from a staff and board which are determined to violate the rules as written. and cooperation in a process initiated by third parties allegedly on its behalf? Question already answered here [1]! please let's know if it isn't enough for you. I didn?t say that the question wasn?t adequately answered. I questioned the person who characterized the asking of the question as an attempt to kill the RIR for that act. I would think not. If it is so fragile, then there are much bigger problems than its financial state. Owen, could you, please, elaborate a bit more on the above? ...i can not wait to hear what you are predicting for the Future of AfriNIC [6] and of the RFC7020. Please, be examplarily transparent :'-( Don't run away! Because of my current role, I cannot further comment on the ongoing legal battle at this time. I predict errata will be filed against RFC-7020 because it claims to document the current state of the RIR system at the time of writing and the statement that global providers universally deal with multiple RIRs has incorrect implications and is not entirely accurate. There are plenty of global networks that deal with a single RIR and even those that deal with multiple RIRs do not necessarily deal with the RIR for each and every region where they operate. There is widespread use of addresses from every RIR in other regions, including a lot of address space in use within Africa that is issued by ARIN, RIPE, and APNIC. Owen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Sun Aug 22 17:20:52 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 10:20:52 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: References: <11F6DBAF-BED3-4DF8-8C02-60656EF8D365@gmail.com> <380EB6B9-C2A2-4024-9364-08ABD359DD81@delong.com> Message-ID: <2302BD4A-F191-418A-9A7D-D94EBE902A6D@delong.com> I have answered all questions that have been asked. Your failure to read the answers is not my responsibility. Owen > On Aug 22, 2021, at 10:19 , Marcus K. G. Adomey wrote: > > Owen, > > Stop your diversionary tactics and provide answers to questions asked you. > > > Marcus > > > > > > Get Outlook for Android > From: Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss > Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 5:06:20 PM > To: Sylvain Baya > Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC ; Brian Sowers > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING > > > >> On Aug 22, 2021, at 01:07 , Sylvain Baya > wrote: >> >> Dear AfriNIC's Community, >> >> Please find my comments below, inline... >> >> Le ven. 20 ao?t 2021 ? 17:36, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss > a ?crit : >> I am confused? How is a question about consent an attempt to kill AFRINIC? >> >> >> Hi Owen, >> ...brother, thanks for you email. >> >> Please add the context; then you'll become less confused :'-( > > No, with the context, I still do not understand how a simple question constitutes an attempt > to kill an RIR. Indeed, I find that it is people who are resistant to the idea of questioning an > organization that are most likely to lead to said organizations demise or worse, its > descent into corruption and malfeasance. >> >> >> Is AFRINIC so fragile that it cannot withstand a simple question of its consent >> >> >> AfriNIC needs to be defended these hard times and it appears that some of us >> are doing very well *our* common duty (protecting our RIR against 'predators') >> as a *community*. (You should have been proud of them :'-() >> >> ...i found it admirable! and i wouldn't like to cross their way; while they are >> defending AfriNIC...not you? Feel free to continue to defend your champion, >> though... > > >From my perspective I am attempting to defend AFRINIC and it?s member base > and community from a staff and board which are determined to violate the > rules as written. > > >> >> >> and cooperation in a process initiated by third parties allegedly on its behalf? >> >> >> Question already answered here [1]! please let's know if it isn't enough for you. > > I didn?t say that the question wasn?t adequately answered. I questioned the person > who characterized the asking of the question as an attempt to kill the RIR for that > act. > > >> I would think not. If it is so fragile, then there are much bigger problems than its financial state. >> >> >> Owen, could you, please, elaborate a bit more on the above? >> ...i can not wait to hear what you are predicting for the Future of AfriNIC [6] >> and of the RFC7020. Please, be examplarily transparent :'-( >> Don't run away! > > Because of my current role, I cannot further comment on the ongoing legal battle at this time. > > I predict errata will be filed against RFC-7020 because it claims to document the current state > of the RIR system at the time of writing and the statement that global providers universally deal > with multiple RIRs has incorrect implications and is not entirely accurate. There are plenty of > global networks that deal with a single RIR and even those that deal with multiple RIRs do > not necessarily deal with the RIR for each and every region where they operate. > > There is widespread use of addresses from every RIR in other regions, including a lot of address > space in use within Africa that is issued by ARIN, RIPE, and APNIC. > > Owen > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Sun Aug 22 17:23:50 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 20:23:50 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] USE of (ARIN, RIPE, APNIC) ADDRESS SPACE IN AFRICA Message-ID: Owen, On Sun, 22 Aug 2021, 20:13 Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss, < community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > > > There is widespread use of addresses from every RIR in other regions, > including a lot of address > space in use within Africa that is issued by ARIN, RIPE, and APNIC. > > Owen > Please back up your claim with real world use cases? Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Sun Aug 22 17:28:00 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 10:28:00 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] USE of (ARIN, RIPE, APNIC) ADDRESS SPACE IN AFRICA In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CA35A89-EFF7-4421-B545-0734E180153A@delong.com> Akamai has a lot of presence in Africa. They do not have a membership in AFRINIC. Hurricane Electric has significant presence in AFRICA and Latin America. To the best of my knowledge, they do not have any resources from LACNIC or AFRINIC. Owen > On Aug 22, 2021, at 10:23 , Noah wrote: > > Owen, > > On Sun, 22 Aug 2021, 20:13 Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss, > wrote: > > > There is widespread use of addresses from every RIR in other regions, including a lot of address > space in use within Africa that is issued by ARIN, RIPE, and APNIC. > > Owen > > > Please back up your claim with real world use cases? > > Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From madomey at hotmail.com Sun Aug 22 17:28:03 2021 From: madomey at hotmail.com (Marcus K. G. Adomey) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 17:28:03 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: <2302BD4A-F191-418A-9A7D-D94EBE902A6D@delong.com> References: <11F6DBAF-BED3-4DF8-8C02-60656EF8D365@gmail.com> <380EB6B9-C2A2-4024-9364-08ABD359DD81@delong.com> <2302BD4A-F191-418A-9A7D-D94EBE902A6D@delong.com> Message-ID: Owen, You have not. Asking for petition before you provide the answer is your way to answer specific questions? Be honest and provide the answers. Don't forget to answer the question (Y/N) from John too. Marcus Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Owen DeLong Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 5:20:52 PM To: Marcus K. G. Adomey Cc: Sylvain Baya ; General Discussions of AFRINIC ; Brian Sowers Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING I have answered all questions that have been asked. Your failure to read the answers is not my responsibility. Owen On Aug 22, 2021, at 10:19 , Marcus K. G. Adomey > wrote: Owen, Stop your diversionary tactics and provide answers to questions asked you. Marcus Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss > Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 5:06:20 PM To: Sylvain Baya > Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC >; Brian Sowers > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING On Aug 22, 2021, at 01:07 , Sylvain Baya > wrote: Dear AfriNIC's Community, Please find my comments below, inline... Le ven. 20 ao?t 2021 ? 17:36, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss > a ?crit : I am confused? How is a question about consent an attempt to kill AFRINIC? Hi Owen, ...brother, thanks for you email. Please add the context; then you'll become less confused :'-( No, with the context, I still do not understand how a simple question constitutes an attempt to kill an RIR. Indeed, I find that it is people who are resistant to the idea of questioning an organization that are most likely to lead to said organizations demise or worse, its descent into corruption and malfeasance. Is AFRINIC so fragile that it cannot withstand a simple question of its consent AfriNIC needs to be defended these hard times and it appears that some of us are doing very well *our* common duty (protecting our RIR against 'predators') as a *community*. (You should have been proud of them :'-() ...i found it admirable! and i wouldn't like to cross their way; while they are defending AfriNIC...not you? Feel free to continue to defend your champion, though... >From my perspective I am attempting to defend AFRINIC and it?s member base and community from a staff and board which are determined to violate the rules as written. and cooperation in a process initiated by third parties allegedly on its behalf? Question already answered here [1]! please let's know if it isn't enough for you. I didn?t say that the question wasn?t adequately answered. I questioned the person who characterized the asking of the question as an attempt to kill the RIR for that act. I would think not. If it is so fragile, then there are much bigger problems than its financial state. Owen, could you, please, elaborate a bit more on the above? ...i can not wait to hear what you are predicting for the Future of AfriNIC [6] and of the RFC7020. Please, be examplarily transparent :'-( Don't run away! Because of my current role, I cannot further comment on the ongoing legal battle at this time. I predict errata will be filed against RFC-7020 because it claims to document the current state of the RIR system at the time of writing and the statement that global providers universally deal with multiple RIRs has incorrect implications and is not entirely accurate. There are plenty of global networks that deal with a single RIR and even those that deal with multiple RIRs do not necessarily deal with the RIR for each and every region where they operate. There is widespread use of addresses from every RIR in other regions, including a lot of address space in use within Africa that is issued by ARIN, RIPE, and APNIC. Owen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Sun Aug 22 17:28:51 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 10:28:51 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: References: <11F6DBAF-BED3-4DF8-8C02-60656EF8D365@gmail.com> <380EB6B9-C2A2-4024-9364-08ABD359DD81@delong.com> <2302BD4A-F191-418A-9A7D-D94EBE902A6D@delong.com> Message-ID: <627E9F2A-35AB-4560-B7F1-640188F7AE82@delong.com> John?s question was answered well before he asked it. Owen > On Aug 22, 2021, at 10:28 , Marcus K. G. Adomey wrote: > > Owen, > > You have not. Asking for petition before you provide the answer is your way to answer specific questions? Be honest and provide the answers. Don't forget to answer the question (Y/N) from John too. > > > > Marcus > > Get Outlook for Android > From: Owen DeLong > Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 5:20:52 PM > To: Marcus K. G. Adomey > Cc: Sylvain Baya ; General Discussions of AFRINIC ; Brian Sowers > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING > > I have answered all questions that have been asked. Your failure to read the answers is not my > responsibility. > > Owen > > >> On Aug 22, 2021, at 10:19 , Marcus K. G. Adomey > wrote: >> >> Owen, >> >> Stop your diversionary tactics and provide answers to questions asked you. >> >> >> Marcus >> >> >> >> >> >> Get Outlook for Android >> From: Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss > >> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 5:06:20 PM >> To: Sylvain Baya > >> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC >; Brian Sowers > >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING >> >> >> >>> On Aug 22, 2021, at 01:07 , Sylvain Baya > wrote: >>> >>> Dear AfriNIC's Community, >>> >>> Please find my comments below, inline... >>> >>> Le ven. 20 ao?t 2021 ? 17:36, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss > a ?crit : >>> I am confused? How is a question about consent an attempt to kill AFRINIC? >>> >>> >>> Hi Owen, >>> ...brother, thanks for you email. >>> >>> Please add the context; then you'll become less confused :'-( >> >> No, with the context, I still do not understand how a simple question constitutes an attempt >> to kill an RIR. Indeed, I find that it is people who are resistant to the idea of questioning an >> organization that are most likely to lead to said organizations demise or worse, its >> descent into corruption and malfeasance. >>> >>> >>> Is AFRINIC so fragile that it cannot withstand a simple question of its consent >>> >>> >>> AfriNIC needs to be defended these hard times and it appears that some of us >>> are doing very well *our* common duty (protecting our RIR against 'predators') >>> as a *community*. (You should have been proud of them :'-() >>> >>> ...i found it admirable! and i wouldn't like to cross their way; while they are >>> defending AfriNIC...not you? Feel free to continue to defend your champion, >>> though... >> >> >From my perspective I am attempting to defend AFRINIC and it?s member base >> and community from a staff and board which are determined to violate the >> rules as written. >> >> >>> >>> >>> and cooperation in a process initiated by third parties allegedly on its behalf? >>> >>> >>> Question already answered here [1]! please let's know if it isn't enough for you. >> >> I didn?t say that the question wasn?t adequately answered. I questioned the person >> who characterized the asking of the question as an attempt to kill the RIR for that >> act. >> >> >>> I would think not. If it is so fragile, then there are much bigger problems than its financial state. >>> >>> >>> Owen, could you, please, elaborate a bit more on the above? >>> ...i can not wait to hear what you are predicting for the Future of AfriNIC [6] >>> and of the RFC7020. Please, be examplarily transparent :'-( >>> Don't run away! >> >> Because of my current role, I cannot further comment on the ongoing legal battle at this time. >> >> I predict errata will be filed against RFC-7020 because it claims to document the current state >> of the RIR system at the time of writing and the statement that global providers universally deal >> with multiple RIRs has incorrect implications and is not entirely accurate. There are plenty of >> global networks that deal with a single RIR and even those that deal with multiple RIRs do >> not necessarily deal with the RIR for each and every region where they operate. >> >> There is widespread use of addresses from every RIR in other regions, including a lot of address >> space in use within Africa that is issued by ARIN, RIPE, and APNIC. >> >> Owen >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From madomey at hotmail.com Sun Aug 22 17:37:49 2021 From: madomey at hotmail.com (Marcus K. G. Adomey) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 17:37:49 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: <627E9F2A-35AB-4560-B7F1-640188F7AE82@delong.com> References: <11F6DBAF-BED3-4DF8-8C02-60656EF8D365@gmail.com> <380EB6B9-C2A2-4024-9364-08ABD359DD81@delong.com> <2302BD4A-F191-418A-9A7D-D94EBE902A6D@delong.com> <627E9F2A-35AB-4560-B7F1-640188F7AE82@delong.com> Message-ID: Owen, Then share the links of your responses. Marcus Marcus Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Owen DeLong Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 5:28:51 PM To: Marcus K. G. Adomey Cc: Sylvain Baya ; General Discussions of AFRINIC ; Brian Sowers Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING John?s question was answered well before he asked it. Owen On Aug 22, 2021, at 10:28 , Marcus K. G. Adomey > wrote: Owen, You have not. Asking for petition before you provide the answer is your way to answer specific questions? Be honest and provide the answers. Don't forget to answer the question (Y/N) from John too. Marcus Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Owen DeLong > Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 5:20:52 PM To: Marcus K. G. Adomey > Cc: Sylvain Baya >; General Discussions of AFRINIC >; Brian Sowers > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING I have answered all questions that have been asked. Your failure to read the answers is not my responsibility. Owen On Aug 22, 2021, at 10:19 , Marcus K. G. Adomey > wrote: Owen, Stop your diversionary tactics and provide answers to questions asked you. Marcus Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss > Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 5:06:20 PM To: Sylvain Baya > Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC >; Brian Sowers > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING On Aug 22, 2021, at 01:07 , Sylvain Baya > wrote: Dear AfriNIC's Community, Please find my comments below, inline... Le ven. 20 ao?t 2021 ? 17:36, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss > a ?crit : I am confused? How is a question about consent an attempt to kill AFRINIC? Hi Owen, ...brother, thanks for you email. Please add the context; then you'll become less confused :'-( No, with the context, I still do not understand how a simple question constitutes an attempt to kill an RIR. Indeed, I find that it is people who are resistant to the idea of questioning an organization that are most likely to lead to said organizations demise or worse, its descent into corruption and malfeasance. Is AFRINIC so fragile that it cannot withstand a simple question of its consent AfriNIC needs to be defended these hard times and it appears that some of us are doing very well *our* common duty (protecting our RIR against 'predators') as a *community*. (You should have been proud of them :'-() ...i found it admirable! and i wouldn't like to cross their way; while they are defending AfriNIC...not you? Feel free to continue to defend your champion, though... >From my perspective I am attempting to defend AFRINIC and it?s member base and community from a staff and board which are determined to violate the rules as written. and cooperation in a process initiated by third parties allegedly on its behalf? Question already answered here [1]! please let's know if it isn't enough for you. I didn?t say that the question wasn?t adequately answered. I questioned the person who characterized the asking of the question as an attempt to kill the RIR for that act. I would think not. If it is so fragile, then there are much bigger problems than its financial state. Owen, could you, please, elaborate a bit more on the above? ...i can not wait to hear what you are predicting for the Future of AfriNIC [6] and of the RFC7020. Please, be examplarily transparent :'-( Don't run away! Because of my current role, I cannot further comment on the ongoing legal battle at this time. I predict errata will be filed against RFC-7020 because it claims to document the current state of the RIR system at the time of writing and the statement that global providers universally deal with multiple RIRs has incorrect implications and is not entirely accurate. There are plenty of global networks that deal with a single RIR and even those that deal with multiple RIRs do not necessarily deal with the RIR for each and every region where they operate. There is widespread use of addresses from every RIR in other regions, including a lot of address space in use within Africa that is issued by ARIN, RIPE, and APNIC. Owen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Sun Aug 22 17:59:04 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 20:59:04 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] USE of (ARIN, RIPE, APNIC) ADDRESS SPACE IN AFRICA In-Reply-To: <4CA35A89-EFF7-4421-B545-0734E180153A@delong.com> References: <4CA35A89-EFF7-4421-B545-0734E180153A@delong.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Aug 2021, 20:28 Owen DeLong, wrote: > Akamai has a lot of presence in Africa. > > They do not have a membership in AFRINIC. > That is fine... > Hurricane Electric has significant presence in AFRICA and Latin America > There are more for instance Apple, Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Cloudflare, Netflix, LimeLight and other similar Internet services providers. Guess what, back at home in the ARIN service region, the above hyper scalers and CDN have extensive Internet Infrastructure which is serving Americans and Europeans before they venture and expand out to scale their local networks into global infrastructure and tap into more markets in Africa and Latin America etc. > To the best of my knowledge, they do not have any resources from LACNIC or > AFRINIC. > That is perfectly fine. My employer has an extensive network in Europe to connect us back to Africa where we extensively operate and yet we are not RIPE resource members. Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mirriamlauren at yahoo.com Sun Aug 22 22:11:07 2021 From: mirriamlauren at yahoo.com (Mirriam) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 22:11:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Community-Discuss] USE of (ARIN, RIPE, APNIC) ADDRESS SPACE IN AFRICA In-Reply-To: <4CA35A89-EFF7-4421-B545-0734E180153A@delong.com> References: <4CA35A89-EFF7-4421-B545-0734E180153A@delong.com> Message-ID: <328928070.606493.1629670267049@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Owen, Let me also point out that, the examples you have given of Akamai and Hurricane are not vaporwares. In fact, both companies have invested in putting in place telecommunication network to serve customers in Africa besides their many customers in America.? My understanding is that they use small number of their IP resources on their small network in Africa to provide services to the customers in Africa. Mirriam. Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 8:28 PM, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss wrote: _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ubah.tonyiyke at gmail.com Sun Aug 22 22:40:55 2021 From: ubah.tonyiyke at gmail.com (Anthony Ubah) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 18:40:55 -0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: References: <11F6DBAF-BED3-4DF8-8C02-60656EF8D365@gmail.com> <1986937354.363562.1629488546353@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hello Amadu Yusif, I do not think it is wise to ignore the rot and inadequacies pointed out on the system within AFRINIC. While I am in support of AFRINIC and the support initiated (in line with Dewole Ajao's propositions refund donors as prorated fees for resources owned and services), Terming opposition doomsday prophecy is a pithole we should be extremely cautious of in this situation, as the bandwagon and Yesman situation will be digging our own graves. To add to this I would like to bring a few questions forward on this "FUNDRAISING & DONATION" initiative, it is not without it's heavy risks and complexities; 1. Did you know that doing this Fundraiser can drive this RIR into the mercy of some individual/resource owners with huge donations?. This be a Catch-22 situation, and trigger a chain of similar crises? [If a resource owner has generously contributed to bailing out afrinic in its own mess today, can Afrinic still wield the power to administer over there resources, if the same scenario where AFRINIC is required to reclaim such resources.] 2. How can the integrity of the personas generously funding AFRINIC be vetted? 3. Is there a cap on donations? 4. Will this be an avenue to launder funds? What is the check in place for this? 5.Why is the funding initiative not out of Mauritius, where the same legal system can call into play on the administration of these funds. I'm sure the list can go on. *Best Regards,* *Anthony Ubah* On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 1:02 AM AMADU YUSIF wrote: > I think we should concentrate more on how to support AFRNIC to stand on > its feet during this crisis and ignore the doom prophets. > > Yusif Amadu > eLearning Unit > University of Ghana Computing Systems > University of Ghana > Cell: +233244659245 > Skype: kooissi > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Mirriam via Community-Discuss > *Sent:* Friday, August 20, 2021 10:42 AM > *To:* Owen DeLong ; Boubakar Barry < > Boubakar.Barry at wacren.net> > *Cc:* General Discussions of AFRINIC > *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP > AFRINIC RUNNING > > Dear Boubakar, > > The wise elders have always advised "never to bite the hand that feeds > you" and I totally understand Owen Delong's silence :-) during these tough > times. Honesty is not for the faint-hearted. > > Mirriam. > > > On Friday, August 20, 2021, 10:08:47 PM GMT+3, Boubakar Barry < > boubakar.barry at wacren.net> wrote: > > > Owen, > > On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 4:36 PM Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss < > community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > > I am confused? How is a question about consent an attempt to kill AFRINIC? > > Is AFRINIC so fragile that it cannot withstand a simple question of its > consent and cooperation in a process initiated by third parties allegedly > on its behalf? > > > You were asked a simpler question and you fail to respond. > > Boubakar > > > I would think not. If it is so fragile, then there are much bigger > problems than its financial state. > > Owen > > > On Aug 20, 2021, at 00:17 , AMADU YUSIF wrote: > > Daniel, I strongly agree with you. Some members here from their actions > wants to kill AFRINIC > > Get Outlook for Android > ------------------------------ > *From:* DANIEL NANGHAKA > *Sent:* Friday, August 20, 2021 6:07:58 AM > *To:* Brian Sowers > *Cc:* General Discussions of AFRINIC > *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP > AFRINIC RUNNING > > I do not understand what is wrong with some members on this list. Their > actions show they want to kill AFRINIC. > If they are not in support of sustainability - why don't they move to the > other regions where they want to migrate or want the region to take over > AFRINIC. > In the history of the creation of AFRINIC, AFRINIC was created to manage > Resources that were designated to Africa. > So, those who want to use African resources in other regions, let them > leave African resources and look for resources in those respective regions. > Otherwise, we are seeing IP colonialism, theft and robbery in broad > daylight. > > Daniel > > On Fri, 20 Aug 2021 at 08:22, Brian Sowers wrote: > > One pressing question that may undermine this ?initiative?: has AFRINIC > agreed to this process? While this is an initiative from certain resource > members in the community, there needs to have been explicit consent from > AFRINIC because it cannot fully account for these donations if ever. Who > has received this consent from AFRINIC to push through with this initiative? > > -Brian > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > -- > CEO/Directeur G?n?ral, WACREN > Web: http://www.wacren.net > ***Keep it simple, as simple as possible, but not simpler. (A. > Einstein)*** > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jcurran at arin.net Mon Aug 23 11:31:22 2021 From: jcurran at arin.net (John Curran) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2021 11:31:22 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: <380EB6B9-C2A2-4024-9364-08ABD359DD81@delong.com> References: <11F6DBAF-BED3-4DF8-8C02-60656EF8D365@gmail.com> <380EB6B9-C2A2-4024-9364-08ABD359DD81@delong.com> Message-ID: <1D037FBF-E90E-4179-9310-33E77A04B4A0@arin.net> On 22 Aug 2021, at 1:06 PM, General Discussions of AFRINIC > wrote: Because of my current role, I cannot further comment on the ongoing legal battle at this time. Mr DeLong - This is good to know - thank you for the explanation. Could you note whether this sudden new-found inability to comment on the Cloud Innovations number resource usage is a recent change? I ask because back when I posed the question on 5 August (and for many weeks prior), you seemed have no difficulty whatsoever commenting extensively about the dispute and Cloud Innovation?s virtuousness ? On 5 Aug 2021, at 6:04 PM, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss > wrote: ... ALL LIRs lease INRs. Many do it in relation to also providing connectivity services. Cloud Innovation also does it in relation to providing connectivity services in some (but not all) cases. ... We (Cloud Innovation) have customers just like any other LIR. We (Cloud Innovation) assign addresses to them for use on internet connected hosts, just like any other LIR. The only distinction between us (Cloud Innovation) and most other LIRs is that we will do so regardless of whether we are the provider of that connectivity or not. Obviously a simple yes/no answer to my question at the time (i.e. ?Is Cloud Innovation?s usage today of the number resources for the same purpose for which they were originally requested and issued??) would have been optimal, but c'est la vie? I do have a point of confusion on your new-found inability to comment ? is it perhaps one-sided, i.e. only with regard to addressing factual matters regarding ?We (Cloud Innovation)? and your number resources usage? I ask, of course, because you still seem to have freedom to comment on matters related to the dispute when it does suit you: e.g. purporting process issues at AFRINC on this list on 12 August, etc. After weeks of justifying of the righteousness of CI and its actions, the sudden silence after a single question is somewhat inexplicable ? do you know if perhaps someone else from CI might be available to address it ? I understand they may not have your depth of knowledge, but surely that?s not needed for a single yes/no question? Thanks! /John John Curran President and CEO American Registry for Internet Numbers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From madomey at hotmail.com Mon Aug 23 11:41:32 2021 From: madomey at hotmail.com (Marcus K. G. Adomey) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2021 11:41:32 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] WAS - FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Brian, It is unfortunate that you are the latest victim of the web of misinformation of Taiwo. For the sake of brevity, I am going to use only the point 3 out of the 4, 5, 6, you referred me to in Taiwo?s script to prove my assertion. We all know that before current CEO took office, there was corruption in AFRINIC. Even strangers in Jerusalem will confirm that corruption was becoming systemic in AFRINIC, sexual harassment, asking for sexual favors and so on started becoming the new normal. Taiwo claimed that the current administration is corrupt and the corruption is becoming rampant. It does not take a high-level critical reading skills to realize that he did not substantiate his claim. This is a dishonest way to argue his case and is unfair to the current Administration and the Board. Some questions could help: * Can he pinpoint out beyond reasonable doubt the corruption in this Administration? * Can he tell us how rampant the corruption is in this administration? * Can he tell us what is questionable about the financial statements? * Have you check for yourself the validity of the claims Taiwo made? Further, he claimed that the CEO is not delivering his promises, meanwhile, we are aware of the fact that the current Administration and the Board have taken the steps to retrieve some of the Internet Resource numbers fraudulently acquired by some members. Even the court cases against AFRINIC, is it not because IPv4 pool were taken away from CI for not complying to the RSA (Registration Service Agreement) the agree to abide with? It is obvious that Taiwo is willingly refusing to accepts facts. Perhaps, He is a magician and he change things overnight. If a bank account is frozen, does it mean AFRINIC assets frozen? This generalization is intended to create fear in the reader?s mind so that (s)he accepts the misinformation that ?this proves to be a hindrance to the operations of AFRINIC now and in the future?. This is mischievous !!! These few points, I hope, will wake you up to the realization that Taiwo generously fed you with misinformation and perhaps, they (few points) will help you to graciously quit the tangle of facts distortion. Take care, Marcus ________________________________ From: Brian Sowers Sent: Saturday, August 21, 2021 9:33 PM To: community-discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING Marcus, https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-August/004717.html I encourage you to look at numbered items 3, 4, 5, and 6 in which Taiwo has generously provided a concise description of the current administration?s actions. As for its past historical actions described by 1 and 2, these have been corroborated by Ronald?s own sleuth work. In my opinion, proponents to maintain the status quo are apologists. The data is here; I urge you to construct your position as you see fit. -Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From silber.mike at gmail.com Mon Aug 23 12:41:31 2021 From: silber.mike at gmail.com (Mike Silber) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2021 14:41:31 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] WAS - FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <73C70844-48DB-4A35-924B-E91F766A2FB7@gmail.com> Colleagues Apologies for top-posting. Rather than the somewhat repetitive back and forth, can I rather suggest that: those that think it is a good initiative put their hand in their pockets and support it (or motivate others to support it); and those that don?t think it is a good initiative refrain from supporting it. I think the fear-mongering around fund raising initiatives has been adequately addressed and shown to be irrelevant noise. Feel free to ignore if you chose. Regards Mike -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mamattah.raymond at gmail.com Mon Aug 23 12:49:18 2021 From: mamattah.raymond at gmail.com (Raymond Mamattah) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2021 12:49:18 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] WAS - FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: <73C70844-48DB-4A35-924B-E91F766A2FB7@gmail.com> References: <73C70844-48DB-4A35-924B-E91F766A2FB7@gmail.com> Message-ID: Beautifully said, Mike. Raymond Mamattah [image: linkedin] [image: facebook] [image: skype] [image: twitter] Accra, Ghana On Mon, Aug 23, 2021 at 12:42 PM Mike Silber wrote: > Colleagues > > Apologies for top-posting. > > Rather than the somewhat repetitive back and forth, can I rather suggest > that: > > > - those that think it is a good initiative put their hand in their > pockets and support it (or motivate others to support it); and > - those that don?t think it is a good initiative refrain from > supporting it. > > > I think the fear-mongering around fund raising initiatives has been > adequately addressed and shown to be irrelevant noise. > > Feel free to ignore if you chose. > > Regards > > Mike > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Mon Aug 23 18:11:55 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2021 11:11:55 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: References: <11F6DBAF-BED3-4DF8-8C02-60656EF8D365@gmail.com> <380EB6B9-C2A2-4024-9364-08ABD359DD81@delong.com> <2302BD4A-F191-418A-9A7D-D94EBE902A6D@delong.com> <627E9F2A-35AB-4560-B7F1-640188F7AE82@delong.com> Message-ID: Do your own research. I?m not your secretary. Owen > On Aug 22, 2021, at 10:37 , Marcus K. G. Adomey wrote: > > Owen, > > Then share the links of your responses. > > > Marcus > > Marcus > > > > > Get Outlook for Android > From: Owen DeLong > Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 5:28:51 PM > To: Marcus K. G. Adomey > Cc: Sylvain Baya ; General Discussions of AFRINIC ; Brian Sowers > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING > > John?s question was answered well before he asked it. > > Owen > > >> On Aug 22, 2021, at 10:28 , Marcus K. G. Adomey > wrote: >> >> Owen, >> >> You have not. Asking for petition before you provide the answer is your way to answer specific questions? Be honest and provide the answers. Don't forget to answer the question (Y/N) from John too. >> >> >> >> Marcus >> >> Get Outlook for Android >> From: Owen DeLong > >> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 5:20:52 PM >> To: Marcus K. G. Adomey > >> Cc: Sylvain Baya >; General Discussions of AFRINIC >; Brian Sowers > >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING >> >> I have answered all questions that have been asked. Your failure to read the answers is not my >> responsibility. >> >> Owen >> >> >>> On Aug 22, 2021, at 10:19 , Marcus K. G. Adomey > wrote: >>> >>> Owen, >>> >>> Stop your diversionary tactics and provide answers to questions asked you. >>> >>> >>> Marcus >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Get Outlook for Android >>> From: Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss > >>> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 5:06:20 PM >>> To: Sylvain Baya > >>> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC >; Brian Sowers > >>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING >>> >>> >>> >>>> On Aug 22, 2021, at 01:07 , Sylvain Baya > wrote: >>>> >>>> Dear AfriNIC's Community, >>>> >>>> Please find my comments below, inline... >>>> >>>> Le ven. 20 ao?t 2021 ? 17:36, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss > a ?crit : >>>> I am confused? How is a question about consent an attempt to kill AFRINIC? >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi Owen, >>>> ...brother, thanks for you email. >>>> >>>> Please add the context; then you'll become less confused :'-( >>> >>> No, with the context, I still do not understand how a simple question constitutes an attempt >>> to kill an RIR. Indeed, I find that it is people who are resistant to the idea of questioning an >>> organization that are most likely to lead to said organizations demise or worse, its >>> descent into corruption and malfeasance. >>>> >>>> >>>> Is AFRINIC so fragile that it cannot withstand a simple question of its consent >>>> >>>> >>>> AfriNIC needs to be defended these hard times and it appears that some of us >>>> are doing very well *our* common duty (protecting our RIR against 'predators') >>>> as a *community*. (You should have been proud of them :'-() >>>> >>>> ...i found it admirable! and i wouldn't like to cross their way; while they are >>>> defending AfriNIC...not you? Feel free to continue to defend your champion, >>>> though... >>> >>> >From my perspective I am attempting to defend AFRINIC and it?s member base >>> and community from a staff and board which are determined to violate the >>> rules as written. >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> and cooperation in a process initiated by third parties allegedly on its behalf? >>>> >>>> >>>> Question already answered here [1]! please let's know if it isn't enough for you. >>> >>> I didn?t say that the question wasn?t adequately answered. I questioned the person >>> who characterized the asking of the question as an attempt to kill the RIR for that >>> act. >>> >>> >>>> I would think not. If it is so fragile, then there are much bigger problems than its financial state. >>>> >>>> >>>> Owen, could you, please, elaborate a bit more on the above? >>>> ...i can not wait to hear what you are predicting for the Future of AfriNIC [6] >>>> and of the RFC7020. Please, be examplarily transparent :'-( >>>> Don't run away! >>> >>> Because of my current role, I cannot further comment on the ongoing legal battle at this time. >>> >>> I predict errata will be filed against RFC-7020 because it claims to document the current state >>> of the RIR system at the time of writing and the statement that global providers universally deal >>> with multiple RIRs has incorrect implications and is not entirely accurate. There are plenty of >>> global networks that deal with a single RIR and even those that deal with multiple RIRs do >>> not necessarily deal with the RIR for each and every region where they operate. >>> >>> There is widespread use of addresses from every RIR in other regions, including a lot of address >>> space in use within Africa that is issued by ARIN, RIPE, and APNIC. >>> >>> Owen >>> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Mon Aug 23 18:12:57 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2021 11:12:57 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] USE of (ARIN, RIPE, APNIC) ADDRESS SPACE IN AFRICA In-Reply-To: References: <4CA35A89-EFF7-4421-B545-0734E180153A@delong.com> Message-ID: <47F10A69-7C75-41A5-824A-3677F4CAA686@delong.com> > On Aug 22, 2021, at 10:59 , Noah wrote: > > > > On Sun, 22 Aug 2021, 20:28 Owen DeLong, > wrote: > Akamai has a lot of presence in Africa. > > They do not have a membership in AFRINIC. > > That is fine... > > > Hurricane Electric has significant presence in AFRICA and Latin America > > There are more for instance Apple, Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Cloudflare, Netflix, LimeLight and other similar Internet services providers. > > Guess what, back at home in the ARIN service region, the above hyper scalers and CDN have extensive Internet Infrastructure which is serving Americans and Europeans before they venture and expand out to scale their local networks into global infrastructure and tap into more markets in Africa and Latin America etc. > > > To the best of my knowledge, they do not have any resources from LACNIC or AFRINIC. > > That is perfectly fine. My employer has an extensive network in Europe to connect us back to Africa where we extensively operate and yet we are not RIPE resource members. > > Noah OK, so you agree with me. That?s great. Let?s move on. Owen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Mon Aug 23 18:21:52 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2021 11:21:52 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] USE of (ARIN, RIPE, APNIC) ADDRESS SPACE IN AFRICA In-Reply-To: <328928070.606493.1629670267049@mail.yahoo.com> References: <4CA35A89-EFF7-4421-B545-0734E180153A@delong.com> <328928070.606493.1629670267049@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yes? They happen to use resources from other regions in Africa without Africans objecting, but when someone uses resources from Africa elsewhere, suddenly this is (despite not being a violation of any written rule) somehow supposedly a problem. I was asked to provide examples of how the statement in RFC7020 is inaccurate. I provided concrete examples. Noah has agreed that they prove my point. Owen > On Aug 22, 2021, at 15:11 , Mirriam wrote: > > Hi Owen, > > Let me also point out that, the examples you have given of Akamai and Hurricane are not vaporwares. > > In fact, both companies have invested in putting in place telecommunication network to serve customers in Africa besides their many customers in America. > > My understanding is that they use small number of their IP resources on their small network in Africa to provide services to the customers in Africa. > > > Mirriam. > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > On Sun, Aug 22, 2021 at 8:28 PM, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss > wrote: > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Mon Aug 23 18:29:52 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2021 21:29:52 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] USE of (ARIN, RIPE, APNIC) ADDRESS SPACE IN AFRICA In-Reply-To: <47F10A69-7C75-41A5-824A-3677F4CAA686@delong.com> References: <4CA35A89-EFF7-4421-B545-0734E180153A@delong.com> <47F10A69-7C75-41A5-824A-3677F4CAA686@delong.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Aug 2021, 21:13 Owen DeLong, wrote: > > > On Aug 22, 2021, at 10:59 , Noah wrote: > > > > On Sun, 22 Aug 2021, 20:28 Owen DeLong, wrote: > >> Akamai has a lot of presence in Africa. >> >> They do not have a membership in AFRINIC. >> > > That is fine... > > >> Hurricane Electric has significant presence in AFRICA and Latin America >> > > There are more for instance Apple, Google, Amazon, Microsoft, Cloudflare, > Netflix, LimeLight and other similar Internet services providers. > > Guess what, back at home in the ARIN service region, the above hyper > scalers and CDN have extensive Internet Infrastructure which is serving > Americans and Europeans before they venture and expand out to scale their > local networks into global infrastructure and tap into more markets in > Africa and Latin America etc. > > >> To the best of my knowledge, they do not have any resources from LACNIC >> or AFRINIC. >> > > That is perfectly fine. My employer has an extensive network in Europe to > connect us back to Africa where we extensively operate and yet we are not > RIPE resource members. > > Noah > > > > OK, so you agree with me. That?s great. > Ofcourse, but I expected you to mention your company Cloud Innovation as well. Strangely though, Cloud Innovation did not cross your mind. > Let?s move on. > Not so fast. I am trying to make sense of the 1.8 billion claim or the 50 million, if indeed that is CIL valuation in comparison to major players in this continent. I am struggling to place your company Cloud Innovation in the group of real cloud service providers who span multiple RIR like Google, Amazon, Microsoft or even the likes of Digital Ocean, Linode etc. Would you be in a position to elaborate more about your company Cloud Innovation since it also lacks a known ASN like the global ISPs and CSPs I mentioned earlier? Cheers, Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.wollner at africaoncloud.net Mon Aug 23 20:34:49 2021 From: paul.wollner at africaoncloud.net (Paul Wollner) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2021 22:34:49 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: <720985464.253669.1629222045058.JavaMail.zimbra@tespok.co.ke> References: <720985464.253669.1629222045058.JavaMail.zimbra@tespok.co.ke> Message-ID: <17b74b90cac.e9bdefd6243681.1331618714256904885@africaoncloud.net> Hello Fiona, Would you care to explain how the funding report (https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14123) is generated? It appears to be a dynamic listing, however the donation that Africa on Cloud has not been listed. I can confirm that the funds did leave our account. Are donations being lost in the system, or is this rather an error on the site? Regards Paul ---- On Tue, 17 Aug 2021 19:40:45 +0200 Fiona Asonga wrote ---- Dear Internet Community, You are probably aware that AFRINIC, the Regional Internet Registry for Africa, is involved in ongoing litigation, where the plaintiff has sought to have AFRINIC?s bank accounts frozen. In today?s connected world, it is easy to abstract the Internet into simply moving bits and bytes, and forget that there are real people that work hard at building, maintaining and providing support for the systems that you, and the Internet, need to continue working and engaging. The litigation has made it difficult for AFRINIC to meet its financial obligations. Part of these expenses are salaries for the AFRINIC team, who are resolutely working through this difficult period.? Whilst we recognise that the legal system has to complete its important process, ?our colleagues still need to survive? during one of the worst pandemics in memory.? As an operational entity, that is core to a functioning Internet, AFRINIC still has financial obligations that it must meet to its suppliers. Af-IX, in collaboration with our partners are therefore embarking on a fund-raising exercise to help keep AFRINIC?s core functions and services running for the next three months. As a broader community, we are dependent on this registry, whose service of allocating and registering Internet Number Resources (IPv4, IPv6 and ASN) has enabled communication for the development and growth of the Internet In the African region. We invite you to be part of the community of supporters to ensure that AFRINIC can continue to play the vital role it has, for the sustainable digital growth in Africa. You can choose to donate any amount via the URL below.? The funds collected will be used to support the team by ensuring the core functions of AFRINIC continue without risk. DONATE TO KEEP AFRINIC UP BY CLICKING THIS LINK:? ?https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 The Af-IX is ably supported in this initiative by the below partners; ? Technology Service Providers of Kenya ??TESPOK Tanzania ISP Association ??TISPA Angola ISP Association ??AAPSI Internet Exchange Point of Nigeria ??IXPN For additional information, please feel free to contact us, or any of our partners through the following email addresses below: ? ? ? ? ? ??mailto:info at af-ix.net??|?mailto:tespok at tespok.co.ke?|?mailto:secretariat at tispa.or.tz?|?mailto:secretariado at aapsi.og.ao?|?mailto:info at ixp.net.ng For Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), Please visit the Sites Below For Details TESPOK =?https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 TISPA =?https://tispa.or.tz/fundraising/afrinic ISPA-Angola =?https://www.aapsi.og.ao/noticia/fundraising-for-afrinichttps://www.aapsi.og.ao/noticia/fundraising-for-afrinichttps://www.aapsi.og.ao/noticia/fundraising-for-afrinic IXPN =?https://ixp.net.ng/news/afrinic-fundraising AF-IX =?https://www.af-ix.net/news/2021/08/afrinic-fundraising-campaign We look forward to your kind support. Yours Sincerely, _______________________________________________ Members-Discuss mailing list Members-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 66589 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mirriamlauren at yahoo.com Mon Aug 23 20:49:52 2021 From: mirriamlauren at yahoo.com (Mirriam) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2021 20:49:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: <17b74b90cac.e9bdefd6243681.1331618714256904885@africaoncloud.net> References: <720985464.253669.1629222045058.JavaMail.zimbra@tespok.co.ke> <17b74b90cac.e9bdefd6243681.1331618714256904885@africaoncloud.net> Message-ID: <939455766.784697.1629751792345@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Paul, On the donation website there is a button that reads FUNDRAISING REPORT. Once you click that, you will be redirected to the link below which is the AFRINIC FUNDRAISING REPORT. https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14123 This is being manually updated and in case you don't see your TRANSACTION ID on the list, be patient as TESPOK will update every after two days. The FAQ section has below question and answer How will the community be informed about the amounts donated and disbursed? TESPOK will publish the total amount donated from both individuals and corporates and the total amount disbursed on the donation web page every 2 days.The names of individual donors will not be published to align with the Kenya Data Protection Act of 2019. Mirriam On Monday, August 23, 2021, 11:35:56 PM GMT+3, Paul Wollner wrote: Hello Fiona, Would you care to explain how the funding report (https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14123) is generated? It appears to be a dynamic listing, however the donation that Africa on Cloud has not been listed. I can confirm that the funds did leave our account. Are donations being lost in the system, or is this rather an error on the site? Regards Paul ---- On Tue, 17 Aug 2021 19:40:45 +0200 Fiona Asonga wrote ---- Dear Internet Community, You are probably aware that AFRINIC, the Regional Internet Registry for Africa, is involved in ongoing litigation, where the plaintiff has sought to have AFRINIC?s bank accounts frozen. In today?s connected world, it is easy to abstract the Internet into simply moving bits and bytes, and forget that there are real people that work hard at building, maintaining and providing support for the systems that you, and the Internet, need to continue working and engaging. The litigation has made it difficult for AFRINIC to meet its financial obligations. Part of these expenses are salaries for the AFRINIC team, who are resolutely working through this difficult period.? Whilst we recognise that the legal system has to complete its important process, ?our colleagues still need to survive? during one of the worst pandemics in memory.? As an operational entity, that is core to a functioning Internet, AFRINIC still has financial obligations that it must meet to its suppliers. Af-IX, in collaboration with our partners are therefore embarking on a fund-raising exercise to help keep AFRINIC?s core functions and services running for the next three months. As a broader community, we are dependent on this registry, whose service of allocating and registering Internet Number Resources (IPv4, IPv6 and ASN) has enabled communication for the development and growth of the Internet In the African region. We invite you to be part of the community of supporters to ensure that AFRINIC can continue to play the vital role it has, for the sustainable digital growth in Africa. You can choose to donate any amount via the URL below.? The funds collected will be used to support the team by ensuring the core functions of AFRINIC continue without risk. DONATE TO KEEP AFRINIC UP BY CLICKING THIS LINK:? ?https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 The Af-IX is ably supported in this initiative by the below partners; ? Technology Service Providers of Kenya ??TESPOK Tanzania ISP Association ??TISPA Angola ISP Association ??AAPSI Internet Exchange Point of Nigeria ??IXPN For additional information, please feel free to contact us, or any of our partners through the following email addresses below: ? ? ? ? ? ??info at af-ix.net??|?tespok at tespok.co.ke?|?secretariat at tispa.or.tz?|?secretariado at aapsi.og.ao?|?info at ixp.net.ng For Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), Please visit the Sites Below For Details TESPOK =?https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 TISPA =?https://tispa.or.tz/fundraising/afrinic ISPA-Angola =?https://www.aapsi.og.ao/noticia/fundraising-for-afrinic IXPN =?https://ixp.net.ng/news/afrinic-fundraising AF-IX =?https://www.af-ix.net/news/2021/08/afrinic-fundraising-campaign We look forward to your kind support. Yours Sincerely, _______________________________________________ Members-Discuss mailing list Members-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 66589 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rfg at tristatelogic.com Mon Aug 23 21:32:51 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2021 14:32:51 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] USE of (ARIN, RIPE, APNIC) ADDRESS SPACE IN AFRICA In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <27750.1629754371@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In message Noah wrote: >Not so fast. I am trying to make sense of the 1.8 billion claim or the 50 >million... Don't forget about the $80 million (USD) claim that Cloud Innovation has also and separately filed against Board Chairman, Subramanian Moonesamy, and against CEO Eddy Kayihura in their personal capacities. (One hopes that all board members and corporate officers of the other four RIRs are currently reviewing their corporate liability insurance policies in light of recent events.) Regards, rfg From madomey at hotmail.com Mon Aug 23 21:39:27 2021 From: madomey at hotmail.com (Marcus K. G. Adomey) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2021 21:39:27 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: References: <11F6DBAF-BED3-4DF8-8C02-60656EF8D365@gmail.com> <380EB6B9-C2A2-4024-9364-08ABD359DD81@delong.com> <2302BD4A-F191-418A-9A7D-D94EBE902A6D@delong.com> <627E9F2A-35AB-4560-B7F1-640188F7AE82@delong.com> Message-ID: Owen, You cannot be my secretary because of your lack of honesty. You claim that you provided answers to questions you were asked. When I asked you to prove them, you are have failed to produce the links. Because you are caught with your lies, you are asking me to research for what does not exist. SHAME !!! Marcus Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Owen DeLong Sent: Monday, August 23, 2021 6:11:55 PM To: Marcus K. G. Adomey Cc: Sylvain Baya ; General Discussions of AFRINIC ; Brian Sowers Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING Do your own research. I?m not your secretary. Owen On Aug 22, 2021, at 10:37 , Marcus K. G. Adomey > wrote: Owen, Then share the links of your responses. Marcus Marcus Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Owen DeLong > Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 5:28:51 PM To: Marcus K. G. Adomey > Cc: Sylvain Baya >; General Discussions of AFRINIC >; Brian Sowers > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING John?s question was answered well before he asked it. Owen On Aug 22, 2021, at 10:28 , Marcus K. G. Adomey > wrote: Owen, You have not. Asking for petition before you provide the answer is your way to answer specific questions? Be honest and provide the answers. Don't forget to answer the question (Y/N) from John too. Marcus Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Owen DeLong > Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 5:20:52 PM To: Marcus K. G. Adomey > Cc: Sylvain Baya >; General Discussions of AFRINIC >; Brian Sowers > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING I have answered all questions that have been asked. Your failure to read the answers is not my responsibility. Owen On Aug 22, 2021, at 10:19 , Marcus K. G. Adomey > wrote: Owen, Stop your diversionary tactics and provide answers to questions asked you. Marcus Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss > Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 5:06:20 PM To: Sylvain Baya > Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC >; Brian Sowers > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING On Aug 22, 2021, at 01:07 , Sylvain Baya > wrote: Dear AfriNIC's Community, Please find my comments below, inline... Le ven. 20 ao?t 2021 ? 17:36, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss > a ?crit : I am confused? How is a question about consent an attempt to kill AFRINIC? Hi Owen, ...brother, thanks for you email. Please add the context; then you'll become less confused :'-( No, with the context, I still do not understand how a simple question constitutes an attempt to kill an RIR. Indeed, I find that it is people who are resistant to the idea of questioning an organization that are most likely to lead to said organizations demise or worse, its descent into corruption and malfeasance. Is AFRINIC so fragile that it cannot withstand a simple question of its consent AfriNIC needs to be defended these hard times and it appears that some of us are doing very well *our* common duty (protecting our RIR against 'predators') as a *community*. (You should have been proud of them :'-() ...i found it admirable! and i wouldn't like to cross their way; while they are defending AfriNIC...not you? Feel free to continue to defend your champion, though... >From my perspective I am attempting to defend AFRINIC and it?s member base and community from a staff and board which are determined to violate the rules as written. and cooperation in a process initiated by third parties allegedly on its behalf? Question already answered here [1]! please let's know if it isn't enough for you. I didn?t say that the question wasn?t adequately answered. I questioned the person who characterized the asking of the question as an attempt to kill the RIR for that act. I would think not. If it is so fragile, then there are much bigger problems than its financial state. Owen, could you, please, elaborate a bit more on the above? ...i can not wait to hear what you are predicting for the Future of AfriNIC [6] and of the RFC7020. Please, be examplarily transparent :'-( Don't run away! Because of my current role, I cannot further comment on the ongoing legal battle at this time. I predict errata will be filed against RFC-7020 because it claims to document the current state of the RIR system at the time of writing and the statement that global providers universally deal with multiple RIRs has incorrect implications and is not entirely accurate. There are plenty of global networks that deal with a single RIR and even those that deal with multiple RIRs do not necessarily deal with the RIR for each and every region where they operate. There is widespread use of addresses from every RIR in other regions, including a lot of address space in use within Africa that is issued by ARIN, RIPE, and APNIC. Owen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rfg at tristatelogic.com Mon Aug 23 21:44:57 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2021 14:44:57 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: <17b74b90cac.e9bdefd6243681.1331618714256904885@africaoncloud.net> Message-ID: <27832.1629755097@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In message <17b74b90cac.e9bdefd6243681.1331618714256904885 at africaoncloud.net>, Paul Wollner wrote: >Would you care to explain how the funding report (https://www.tespok.co.ke/= >?page_id=3D14123) is generated? It appears to be a dynamic listing, however > the donation that Africa on Cloud has not been listed. I can confirm that >the funds did leave our account. > > >Are donations being lost in the system, or is this rather an error on the >site? :-) Hilarious! And I thought that *I* wrote good jokes! But Paul has certainly outdone me here. Bravo! Regards, rfg From owen at delong.com Mon Aug 23 22:00:55 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2021 15:00:55 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: References: <11F6DBAF-BED3-4DF8-8C02-60656EF8D365@gmail.com> <380EB6B9-C2A2-4024-9364-08ABD359DD81@delong.com> <2302BD4A-F191-418A-9A7D-D94EBE902A6D@delong.com> <627E9F2A-35AB-4560-B7F1-640188F7AE82@delong.com> Message-ID: <7631912A-98F8-4023-88CA-A721DE951B5E@delong.com> I assure you it exists. I?ll even narrow it down to the last three months for you. That should make your archival research easier. I haven?t lied and I challenge you to prove that. Your claim that they do not exist is the lie, My refusal to do your research for you is simply that. Owen > On Aug 23, 2021, at 14:39 , Marcus K. G. Adomey wrote: > > Owen, > > > You cannot be my secretary because of your lack of honesty. > > You claim that you provided answers to questions you were asked. When I asked you to prove them, you are have failed to produce the links. Because you are caught with your lies, you are asking me to research for what does not exist. > > > SHAME !!! > > > > Marcus > > Get Outlook for Android > From: Owen DeLong > Sent: Monday, August 23, 2021 6:11:55 PM > To: Marcus K. G. Adomey > Cc: Sylvain Baya ; General Discussions of AFRINIC ; Brian Sowers > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING > > Do your own research. I?m not your secretary. > > Owen > > >> On Aug 22, 2021, at 10:37 , Marcus K. G. Adomey > wrote: >> >> Owen, >> >> Then share the links of your responses. >> >> >> Marcus >> >> Marcus >> >> >> >> >> Get Outlook for Android >> From: Owen DeLong > >> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 5:28:51 PM >> To: Marcus K. G. Adomey > >> Cc: Sylvain Baya >; General Discussions of AFRINIC >; Brian Sowers > >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING >> >> John?s question was answered well before he asked it. >> >> Owen >> >> >>> On Aug 22, 2021, at 10:28 , Marcus K. G. Adomey > wrote: >>> >>> Owen, >>> >>> You have not. Asking for petition before you provide the answer is your way to answer specific questions? Be honest and provide the answers. Don't forget to answer the question (Y/N) from John too. >>> >>> >>> >>> Marcus >>> >>> Get Outlook for Android >>> From: Owen DeLong > >>> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 5:20:52 PM >>> To: Marcus K. G. Adomey > >>> Cc: Sylvain Baya >; General Discussions of AFRINIC >; Brian Sowers > >>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING >>> >>> I have answered all questions that have been asked. Your failure to read the answers is not my >>> responsibility. >>> >>> Owen >>> >>> >>>> On Aug 22, 2021, at 10:19 , Marcus K. G. Adomey > wrote: >>>> >>>> Owen, >>>> >>>> Stop your diversionary tactics and provide answers to questions asked you. >>>> >>>> >>>> Marcus >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Get Outlook for Android >>>> From: Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss > >>>> Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 5:06:20 PM >>>> To: Sylvain Baya > >>>> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC >; Brian Sowers > >>>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Aug 22, 2021, at 01:07 , Sylvain Baya > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Dear AfriNIC's Community, >>>>> >>>>> Please find my comments below, inline... >>>>> >>>>> Le ven. 20 ao?t 2021 ? 17:36, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss > a ?crit : >>>>> I am confused? How is a question about consent an attempt to kill AFRINIC? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi Owen, >>>>> ...brother, thanks for you email. >>>>> >>>>> Please add the context; then you'll become less confused :'-( >>>> >>>> No, with the context, I still do not understand how a simple question constitutes an attempt >>>> to kill an RIR. Indeed, I find that it is people who are resistant to the idea of questioning an >>>> organization that are most likely to lead to said organizations demise or worse, its >>>> descent into corruption and malfeasance. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Is AFRINIC so fragile that it cannot withstand a simple question of its consent >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> AfriNIC needs to be defended these hard times and it appears that some of us >>>>> are doing very well *our* common duty (protecting our RIR against 'predators') >>>>> as a *community*. (You should have been proud of them :'-() >>>>> >>>>> ...i found it admirable! and i wouldn't like to cross their way; while they are >>>>> defending AfriNIC...not you? Feel free to continue to defend your champion, >>>>> though... >>>> >>>> >From my perspective I am attempting to defend AFRINIC and it?s member base >>>> and community from a staff and board which are determined to violate the >>>> rules as written. >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> and cooperation in a process initiated by third parties allegedly on its behalf? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Question already answered here [1]! please let's know if it isn't enough for you. >>>> >>>> I didn?t say that the question wasn?t adequately answered. I questioned the person >>>> who characterized the asking of the question as an attempt to kill the RIR for that >>>> act. >>>> >>>> >>>>> I would think not. If it is so fragile, then there are much bigger problems than its financial state. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Owen, could you, please, elaborate a bit more on the above? >>>>> ...i can not wait to hear what you are predicting for the Future of AfriNIC [6] >>>>> and of the RFC7020. Please, be examplarily transparent :'-( >>>>> Don't run away! >>>> >>>> Because of my current role, I cannot further comment on the ongoing legal battle at this time. >>>> >>>> I predict errata will be filed against RFC-7020 because it claims to document the current state >>>> of the RIR system at the time of writing and the statement that global providers universally deal >>>> with multiple RIRs has incorrect implications and is not entirely accurate. There are plenty of >>>> global networks that deal with a single RIR and even those that deal with multiple RIRs do >>>> not necessarily deal with the RIR for each and every region where they operate. >>>> >>>> There is widespread use of addresses from every RIR in other regions, including a lot of address >>>> space in use within Africa that is issued by ARIN, RIPE, and APNIC. >>>> >>>> Owen >>>> >>> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tespok at tespok.co.ke Mon Aug 23 22:21:00 2021 From: tespok at tespok.co.ke (Fiona Asonga) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2021 01:21:00 +0300 (EAT) Subject: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 832, Issue 2 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1707022942.281347.1629757260659.JavaMail.zimbra@tespok.co.ke> Hallo Paul Thank you for your donation. We are updating every 2 days. We are collecting from 3 payment systems and hence the update every 2 days. We encourage everyone making bank transfer payments to send to finance at tespok.co.ke the transfer confirmation. As soon as funds are sighted at the bank we shall confirm receipt. We sincerely thank those who are supporting the initiative for your support. Kind regards Fiona Asonga Chief Executive Officer Technology Service Providers of Kenya ------------- Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2021 22:34:49 +0200 From: Paul Wollner To: "Fiona Asonga" Cc: Community Discuss , members-discuss Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING Message-ID: <17b74b90cac.e9bdefd6243681.1331618714256904885 at africaoncloud.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hello Fiona, Would you care to explain how the funding report (https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14123) is generated? It appears to be a dynamic listing, however the donation that Africa on Cloud has not been listed. I can confirm that the funds did leave our account. Are donations being lost in the system, or is this rather an error on the site? Regards Paul ---- On Tue, 17 Aug 2021 19:40:45 +0200 Fiona Asonga wrote ---- Dear Internet Community, You are probably aware that AFRINIC, the Regional Internet Registry for Africa, is involved in ongoing litigation, where the plaintiff has sought to have AFRINIC?s bank accounts frozen. In today?s connected world, it is easy to abstract the Internet into simply moving bits and bytes, and forget that there are real people that work hard at building, maintaining and providing support for the systems that you, and the Internet, need to continue working and engaging. The litigation has made it difficult for AFRINIC to meet its financial obligations. Part of these expenses are salaries for the AFRINIC team, who are resolutely working through this difficult period.? Whilst we recognise that the legal system has to complete its important process, ?our colleagues still need to survive? during one of the worst pandemics in memory.? As an operational entity, that is core to a functioning Internet, AFRINIC still has financial obligations that it must meet to its suppliers. Af-IX, in collaboration with our partners are therefore embarking on a fund-raising exercise to help keep AFRINIC?s core functions and services running for the next three months. As a broader community, we are dependent on this registry, whose service of allocating and registering Internet Number Resources (IPv4, IPv6 and ASN) has enabled communication for the development and growth of the Internet In the African region. We invite you to be part of the community of supporters to ensure that AFRINIC can continue to play the vital role it has, for the sustainable digital growth in Africa. You can choose to donate any amount via the URL below.? The funds collected will be used to support the team by ensuring the core functions of AFRINIC continue without risk. DONATE TO KEEP AFRINIC UP BY CLICKING THIS LINK:? ?https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 The Af-IX is ably supported in this initiative by the below partners; ? Technology Service Providers of Kenya ??TESPOK Tanzania ISP Association ??TISPA Angola ISP Association ??AAPSI Internet Exchange Point of Nigeria ??IXPN For additional information, please feel free to contact us, or any of our partners through the following email addresses below: ? ? ? ? ? ??mailto:info at af-ix.net??|?mailto:tespok at tespok.co.ke?|?mailto:secretariat at tispa.or.tz?|?mailto:secretariado at aapsi.og.ao?|?mailto:info at ixp.net.ng For Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), Please visit the Sites Below For Details TESPOK =?https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 TISPA =?https://tispa.or.tz/fundraising/afrinic ISPA-Angola =?https://www.aapsi.og.ao/noticia/fundraising-for-afrinichttps://www.aapsi.og.ao/noticia/fundraising-for-afrinichttps://www.aapsi.og.ao/noticia/fundraising-for-afrinic IXPN =?https://ixp.net.ng/news/afrinic-fundraising AF-IX =?https://www.af-ix.net/news/2021/08/afrinic-fundraising-campaign We look forward to your kind support. Yours Sincerely, _______________________________________________ Members-Discuss mailing list Members-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 66589 bytes Desc: not available URL: ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2021 20:49:52 +0000 (UTC) From: Mirriam To: Fiona Asonga , Paul Wollner Cc: Community Discuss , members-discuss Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING Message-ID: <939455766.784697.1629751792345 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi Paul, On the donation website there is a button that reads FUNDRAISING REPORT. Once you click that, you will be redirected to the link below which is the AFRINIC FUNDRAISING REPORT. https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14123 This is being manually updated and in case you don't see your TRANSACTION ID on the list, be patient as TESPOK will update every after two days. The FAQ section has below question and answer How will the community be informed about the amounts donated and disbursed? TESPOK will publish the total amount donated from both individuals and corporates and the total amount disbursed on the donation web page every 2 days.The names of individual donors will not be published to align with the Kenya Data Protection Act of 2019. Mirriam On Monday, August 23, 2021, 11:35:56 PM GMT+3, Paul Wollner wrote: Hello Fiona, Would you care to explain how the funding report (https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14123) is generated? It appears to be a dynamic listing, however the donation that Africa on Cloud has not been listed. I can confirm that the funds did leave our account. Are donations being lost in the system, or is this rather an error on the site? Regards Paul ---- On Tue, 17 Aug 2021 19:40:45 +0200 Fiona Asonga wrote ---- Dear Internet Community, You are probably aware that AFRINIC, the Regional Internet Registry for Africa, is involved in ongoing litigation, where the plaintiff has sought to have AFRINIC?s bank accounts frozen. In today?s connected world, it is easy to abstract the Internet into simply moving bits and bytes, and forget that there are real people that work hard at building, maintaining and providing support for the systems that you, and the Internet, need to continue working and engaging. The litigation has made it difficult for AFRINIC to meet its financial obligations. Part of these expenses are salaries for the AFRINIC team, who are resolutely working through this difficult period.? Whilst we recognise that the legal system has to complete its important process, ?our colleagues still need to survive? during one of the worst pandemics in memory.? As an operational entity, that is core to a functioning Internet, AFRINIC still has financial obligations that it must meet to its suppliers. Af-IX, in collaboration with our partners are therefore embarking on a fund-raising exercise to help keep AFRINIC?s core functions and services running for the next three months. As a broader community, we are dependent on this registry, whose service of allocating and registering Internet Number Resources (IPv4, IPv6 and ASN) has enabled communication for the development and growth of the Internet In the African region. We invite you to be part of the community of supporters to ensure that AFRINIC can continue to play the vital role it has, for the sustainable digital growth in Africa. You can choose to donate any amount via the URL below.? The funds collected will be used to support the team by ensuring the core functions of AFRINIC continue without risk. DONATE TO KEEP AFRINIC UP BY CLICKING THIS LINK:? ?https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 The Af-IX is ably supported in this initiative by the below partners; ? Technology Service Providers of Kenya ??TESPOK Tanzania ISP Association ??TISPA Angola ISP Association ??AAPSI Internet Exchange Point of Nigeria ??IXPN For additional information, please feel free to contact us, or any of our partners through the following email addresses below: ? ? ? ? ? ??info at af-ix.net??|?tespok at tespok.co.ke?|?secretariat at tispa.or.tz?|?secretariado at aapsi.og.ao?|?info at ixp.net.ng For Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), Please visit the Sites Below For Details TESPOK =?https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 TISPA =?https://tispa.or.tz/fundraising/afrinic ISPA-Angola =?https://www.aapsi.og.ao/noticia/fundraising-for-afrinic IXPN =?https://ixp.net.ng/news/afrinic-fundraising AF-IX =?https://www.af-ix.net/news/2021/08/afrinic-fundraising-campaign We look forward to your kind support. Yours Sincerely, _______________________________________________ Members-Discuss mailing list Members-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 66589 bytes Desc: not available URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ------------------------------ End of Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 832, Issue 2 ************************************************* From madomey at hotmail.com Mon Aug 23 23:00:36 2021 From: madomey at hotmail.com (Marcus K. G. Adomey) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2021 23:00:36 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: <7631912A-98F8-4023-88CA-A721DE951B5E@delong.com> References: <11F6DBAF-BED3-4DF8-8C02-60656EF8D365@gmail.com> <380EB6B9-C2A2-4024-9364-08ABD359DD81@delong.com> <2302BD4A-F191-418A-9A7D-D94EBE902A6D@delong.com> <627E9F2A-35AB-4560-B7F1-640188F7AE82@delong.com> <7631912A-98F8-4023-88CA-A721DE951B5E@delong.com> Message-ID: Owen, Knowing you Owen, if you have the evidence, you will be quick to share them on this platform. Your refusal to provide the evidence you claimed they exist is a way to escape the disgrace your lies is already causing you in terms of credibility. This community knows that you have no proof to show and that you are simply indulging in subterfuge. GO IN PEACE ? !!! Marcus ________________________________ From: Owen DeLong Sent: Monday, August 23, 2021 10:00 PM To: Marcus K. G. Adomey Cc: Sylvain Baya ; General Discussions of AFRINIC ; Brian Sowers Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING I assure you it exists. I?ll even narrow it down to the last three months for you. That should make your archival research easier. I haven?t lied and I challenge you to prove that. Your claim that they do not exist is the lie, My refusal to do your research for you is simply that. Owen On Aug 23, 2021, at 14:39 , Marcus K. G. Adomey > wrote: Owen, You cannot be my secretary because of your lack of honesty. You claim that you provided answers to questions you were asked. When I asked you to prove them, you are have failed to produce the links. Because you are caught with your lies, you are asking me to research for what does not exist. SHAME !!! Marcus Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Owen DeLong > Sent: Monday, August 23, 2021 6:11:55 PM To: Marcus K. G. Adomey > Cc: Sylvain Baya >; General Discussions of AFRINIC >; Brian Sowers > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING Do your own research. I?m not your secretary. Owen On Aug 22, 2021, at 10:37 , Marcus K. G. Adomey > wrote: Owen, Then share the links of your responses. Marcus Marcus Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Owen DeLong > Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 5:28:51 PM To: Marcus K. G. Adomey > Cc: Sylvain Baya >; General Discussions of AFRINIC >; Brian Sowers > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING John?s question was answered well before he asked it. Owen On Aug 22, 2021, at 10:28 , Marcus K. G. Adomey > wrote: Owen, You have not. Asking for petition before you provide the answer is your way to answer specific questions? Be honest and provide the answers. Don't forget to answer the question (Y/N) from John too. Marcus Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Owen DeLong > Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 5:20:52 PM To: Marcus K. G. Adomey > Cc: Sylvain Baya >; General Discussions of AFRINIC >; Brian Sowers > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING I have answered all questions that have been asked. Your failure to read the answers is not my responsibility. Owen On Aug 22, 2021, at 10:19 , Marcus K. G. Adomey > wrote: Owen, Stop your diversionary tactics and provide answers to questions asked you. Marcus Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss > Sent: Sunday, August 22, 2021 5:06:20 PM To: Sylvain Baya > Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC >; Brian Sowers > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING On Aug 22, 2021, at 01:07 , Sylvain Baya > wrote: Dear AfriNIC's Community, Please find my comments below, inline... Le ven. 20 ao?t 2021 ? 17:36, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss > a ?crit : I am confused? How is a question about consent an attempt to kill AFRINIC? Hi Owen, ...brother, thanks for you email. Please add the context; then you'll become less confused :'-( No, with the context, I still do not understand how a simple question constitutes an attempt to kill an RIR. Indeed, I find that it is people who are resistant to the idea of questioning an organization that are most likely to lead to said organizations demise or worse, its descent into corruption and malfeasance. Is AFRINIC so fragile that it cannot withstand a simple question of its consent AfriNIC needs to be defended these hard times and it appears that some of us are doing very well *our* common duty (protecting our RIR against 'predators') as a *community*. (You should have been proud of them :'-() ...i found it admirable! and i wouldn't like to cross their way; while they are defending AfriNIC...not you? Feel free to continue to defend your champion, though... >From my perspective I am attempting to defend AFRINIC and it?s member base and community from a staff and board which are determined to violate the rules as written. and cooperation in a process initiated by third parties allegedly on its behalf? Question already answered here [1]! please let's know if it isn't enough for you. I didn?t say that the question wasn?t adequately answered. I questioned the person who characterized the asking of the question as an attempt to kill the RIR for that act. I would think not. If it is so fragile, then there are much bigger problems than its financial state. Owen, could you, please, elaborate a bit more on the above? ...i can not wait to hear what you are predicting for the Future of AfriNIC [6] and of the RFC7020. Please, be examplarily transparent :'-( Don't run away! Because of my current role, I cannot further comment on the ongoing legal battle at this time. I predict errata will be filed against RFC-7020 because it claims to document the current state of the RIR system at the time of writing and the statement that global providers universally deal with multiple RIRs has incorrect implications and is not entirely accurate. There are plenty of global networks that deal with a single RIR and even those that deal with multiple RIRs do not necessarily deal with the RIR for each and every region where they operate. There is widespread use of addresses from every RIR in other regions, including a lot of address space in use within Africa that is issued by ARIN, RIPE, and APNIC. Owen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From comms at afrinic.net Tue Aug 24 07:39:16 2021 From: comms at afrinic.net (AFRINIC Communication) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2021 11:39:16 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Reminder on the AFRINIC Code of Conduct Message-ID: <36074C65-07F3-491B-BE83-1B41D7A876C8@afrinic.net> Dear Colleagues, We urge you all to read the AFRINIC Code of Conduct to make sure you are up to date on the processes that safeguard the discussion and community-driven policies at the heart of AFRINIC. The code of conduct ensures that discussions are kept professional and that individuals are protected against defamatory, derogatory and personal attacks. Please read the following blog post for more information on the AFRINIC Code of Conduct: https://afrinic.net/20200903-code-of-conduct Kind regards, AFRINIC Communications ?????????????... Chers coll?gues, Nous vous invitons ? lire ce document pour vous assurer que vous ?tes au courant de notre code de conduite et des processus qui prot?gent la discussion et les politiques communautaires au c?ur d'AFRINIC. Le code de conduite garantit que les discussions restent professionnelles et que les individus sont prot?g?s contre les attaques diffamatoires, d?sobligeantes et personnelles. Veuillez lire le blog suivant sur le code de conduite d'AFRINIC : https://afrinic.net/20200903-code-of-conduct Cordialement AFRINIC Communications From dndannang at gmail.com Tue Aug 24 11:10:20 2021 From: dndannang at gmail.com (DANIEL NANGHAKA) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2021 14:10:20 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] USE of (ARIN, RIPE, APNIC) ADDRESS SPACE IN AFRICA In-Reply-To: <27750.1629754371@segfault.tristatelogic.com> References: <27750.1629754371@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: I think CI just wants to show that he is a small god and just threatens everything. $80 million (USD) is not a joke. One leader claimed to rule the world but the rule was short lived and started hunting for help and later died just like street dogs. Daniel On Tue, Aug 24, 2021, 00:33 Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: > In message ci17DZ9n7JrXwQ0YGMMq2bhegKzcSpJq-5bN9Cg at mail.gmail.com> > Noah wrote: > > >Not so fast. I am trying to make sense of the 1.8 billion claim or the 50 > >million... > > Don't forget about the $80 million (USD) claim that Cloud Innovation has > also and separately filed against Board Chairman, Subramanian Moonesamy, > and against CEO Eddy Kayihura in their personal capacities. > > (One hopes that all board members and corporate officers of the other four > RIRs are currently reviewing their corporate liability insurance policies > in light of recent events.) > > > Regards, > rfg > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tespok at tespok.co.ke Tue Aug 24 13:24:30 2021 From: tespok at tespok.co.ke (Fiona Asonga) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2021 16:24:30 +0300 (EAT) Subject: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 832, Issue 2 In-Reply-To: <1707022942.281347.1629757260659.JavaMail.zimbra@tespok.co.ke> References: <1707022942.281347.1629757260659.JavaMail.zimbra@tespok.co.ke> Message-ID: <367776013.285472.1629811470357.JavaMail.zimbra@tespok.co.ke> Hallo Paul, We confirm receipt of your contribution towards AFRINIC of USD 10.00 and USD 200.00 as per the list on https://zoom.us/j/93529421913?pwd=TTRlbndzV2orT2pSaHZpOWRjMW5qUT09 via the card payment gateway where both the Visa card and MasterCard were successfully executed. There is no money that has gotten lost in the system. Payments made over the weekend will be reflected during the update cycle on Tuesday. The next update shall be on Friday. Thank you for your kind support. Kind regards Fiona Asonga Chief Executive Officer Technology Service Providers of Kenya ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fiona Asonga" To: community-discuss at afrinic.net Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2021 1:21:00 AM Subject: Re: Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 832, Issue 2 Hallo Paul Thank you for your donation. We are updating every 2 days. We are collecting from 3 payment systems and hence the update every 2 days. We encourage everyone making bank transfer payments to send to finance at tespok.co.ke the transfer confirmation. As soon as funds are sighted at the bank we shall confirm receipt. We sincerely thank those who are supporting the initiative for your support. Kind regards Fiona Asonga Chief Executive Officer Technology Service Providers of Kenya ------------- Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2021 22:34:49 +0200 From: Paul Wollner To: "Fiona Asonga" Cc: Community Discuss , members-discuss Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING Message-ID: <17b74b90cac.e9bdefd6243681.1331618714256904885 at africaoncloud.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hello Fiona, Would you care to explain how the funding report (https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14123) is generated? It appears to be a dynamic listing, however the donation that Africa on Cloud has not been listed. I can confirm that the funds did leave our account. Are donations being lost in the system, or is this rather an error on the site? Regards Paul ---- On Tue, 17 Aug 2021 19:40:45 +0200 Fiona Asonga wrote ---- Dear Internet Community, You are probably aware that AFRINIC, the Regional Internet Registry for Africa, is involved in ongoing litigation, where the plaintiff has sought to have AFRINIC?s bank accounts frozen. In today?s connected world, it is easy to abstract the Internet into simply moving bits and bytes, and forget that there are real people that work hard at building, maintaining and providing support for the systems that you, and the Internet, need to continue working and engaging. The litigation has made it difficult for AFRINIC to meet its financial obligations. Part of these expenses are salaries for the AFRINIC team, who are resolutely working through this difficult period.? Whilst we recognise that the legal system has to complete its important process, ?our colleagues still need to survive? during one of the worst pandemics in memory.? As an operational entity, that is core to a functioning Internet, AFRINIC still has financial obligations that it must meet to its suppliers. Af-IX, in collaboration with our partners are therefore embarking on a fund-raising exercise to help keep AFRINIC?s core functions and services running for the next three months. As a broader community, we are dependent on this registry, whose service of allocating and registering Internet Number Resources (IPv4, IPv6 and ASN) has enabled communication for the development and growth of the Internet In the African region. We invite you to be part of the community of supporters to ensure that AFRINIC can continue to play the vital role it has, for the sustainable digital growth in Africa. You can choose to donate any amount via the URL below.? The funds collected will be used to support the team by ensuring the core functions of AFRINIC continue without risk. DONATE TO KEEP AFRINIC UP BY CLICKING THIS LINK:? ?https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 The Af-IX is ably supported in this initiative by the below partners; ? Technology Service Providers of Kenya ??TESPOK Tanzania ISP Association ??TISPA Angola ISP Association ??AAPSI Internet Exchange Point of Nigeria ??IXPN For additional information, please feel free to contact us, or any of our partners through the following email addresses below: ? ? ? ? ? ??mailto:info at af-ix.net??|?mailto:tespok at tespok.co.ke?|?mailto:secretariat at tispa.or.tz?|?mailto:secretariado at aapsi.og.ao?|?mailto:info at ixp.net.ng For Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), Please visit the Sites Below For Details TESPOK =?https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 TISPA =?https://tispa.or.tz/fundraising/afrinic ISPA-Angola =?https://www.aapsi.og.ao/noticia/fundraising-for-afrinichttps://www.aapsi.og.ao/noticia/fundraising-for-afrinichttps://www.aapsi.og.ao/noticia/fundraising-for-afrinic IXPN =?https://ixp.net.ng/news/afrinic-fundraising AF-IX =?https://www.af-ix.net/news/2021/08/afrinic-fundraising-campaign We look forward to your kind support. Yours Sincerely, _______________________________________________ Members-Discuss mailing list Members-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 66589 bytes Desc: not available URL: ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2021 20:49:52 +0000 (UTC) From: Mirriam To: Fiona Asonga , Paul Wollner Cc: Community Discuss , members-discuss Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING Message-ID: <939455766.784697.1629751792345 at mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi Paul, On the donation website there is a button that reads FUNDRAISING REPORT. Once you click that, you will be redirected to the link below which is the AFRINIC FUNDRAISING REPORT. https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14123 This is being manually updated and in case you don't see your TRANSACTION ID on the list, be patient as TESPOK will update every after two days. The FAQ section has below question and answer How will the community be informed about the amounts donated and disbursed? TESPOK will publish the total amount donated from both individuals and corporates and the total amount disbursed on the donation web page every 2 days.The names of individual donors will not be published to align with the Kenya Data Protection Act of 2019. Mirriam On Monday, August 23, 2021, 11:35:56 PM GMT+3, Paul Wollner wrote: Hello Fiona, Would you care to explain how the funding report (https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14123) is generated? It appears to be a dynamic listing, however the donation that Africa on Cloud has not been listed. I can confirm that the funds did leave our account. Are donations being lost in the system, or is this rather an error on the site? Regards Paul ---- On Tue, 17 Aug 2021 19:40:45 +0200 Fiona Asonga wrote ---- Dear Internet Community, You are probably aware that AFRINIC, the Regional Internet Registry for Africa, is involved in ongoing litigation, where the plaintiff has sought to have AFRINIC?s bank accounts frozen. In today?s connected world, it is easy to abstract the Internet into simply moving bits and bytes, and forget that there are real people that work hard at building, maintaining and providing support for the systems that you, and the Internet, need to continue working and engaging. The litigation has made it difficult for AFRINIC to meet its financial obligations. Part of these expenses are salaries for the AFRINIC team, who are resolutely working through this difficult period.? Whilst we recognise that the legal system has to complete its important process, ?our colleagues still need to survive? during one of the worst pandemics in memory.? As an operational entity, that is core to a functioning Internet, AFRINIC still has financial obligations that it must meet to its suppliers. Af-IX, in collaboration with our partners are therefore embarking on a fund-raising exercise to help keep AFRINIC?s core functions and services running for the next three months. As a broader community, we are dependent on this registry, whose service of allocating and registering Internet Number Resources (IPv4, IPv6 and ASN) has enabled communication for the development and growth of the Internet In the African region. We invite you to be part of the community of supporters to ensure that AFRINIC can continue to play the vital role it has, for the sustainable digital growth in Africa. You can choose to donate any amount via the URL below.? The funds collected will be used to support the team by ensuring the core functions of AFRINIC continue without risk. DONATE TO KEEP AFRINIC UP BY CLICKING THIS LINK:? ?https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 The Af-IX is ably supported in this initiative by the below partners; ? Technology Service Providers of Kenya ??TESPOK Tanzania ISP Association ??TISPA Angola ISP Association ??AAPSI Internet Exchange Point of Nigeria ??IXPN For additional information, please feel free to contact us, or any of our partners through the following email addresses below: ? ? ? ? ? ??info at af-ix.net??|?tespok at tespok.co.ke?|?secretariat at tispa.or.tz?|?secretariado at aapsi.og.ao?|?info at ixp.net.ng For Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), Please visit the Sites Below For Details TESPOK =?https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 TISPA =?https://tispa.or.tz/fundraising/afrinic ISPA-Angola =?https://www.aapsi.og.ao/noticia/fundraising-for-afrinic IXPN =?https://ixp.net.ng/news/afrinic-fundraising AF-IX =?https://www.af-ix.net/news/2021/08/afrinic-fundraising-campaign We look forward to your kind support. Yours Sincerely, _______________________________________________ Members-Discuss mailing list Members-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 66589 bytes Desc: not available URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ------------------------------ End of Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 832, Issue 2 ************************************************* From tespok at tespok.co.ke Tue Aug 24 13:27:46 2021 From: tespok at tespok.co.ke (Fiona Asonga) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2021 16:27:46 +0300 (EAT) Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: <17b74b90cac.e9bdefd6243681.1331618714256904885@africaoncloud.net> References: <720985464.253669.1629222045058.JavaMail.zimbra@tespok.co.ke> <17b74b90cac.e9bdefd6243681.1331618714256904885@africaoncloud.net> Message-ID: <684083881.285844.1629811666968.JavaMail.zimbra@tespok.co.ke> Hallo Paul, We confirm receipt of your contribution towards AFRINIC of USD 10.00 and USD 200.00 as per the list on https://zoom.us/j/93529421913?pwd=TTRlbndzV2orT2pSaHZpOWRjMW5qUT09 via the card payment gateway where both the Visa card and MasterCard were successfully executed. There is no money that has gotten lost in the system. Payments made over the weekend will be reflected during the update cycle on Tuesday . The next update shall be on Friday . Thank you for your kind support. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Wollner" To: "Fiona Asonga" Cc: "members-discuss" , "Community Discuss" Sent: Monday, August 23, 2021 11:34:49 PM Subject: Re: [members-discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING Hello Fiona, Would you care to explain how the funding report ( https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14123 ) is generated? It appears to be a dynamic listing, however the donation that Africa on Cloud has not been listed. I can confirm that the funds did leave our account. Are donations being lost in the system, or is this rather an error on the site? Regards Paul ---- On Tue, 17 Aug 2021 19:40:45 +0200 Fiona Asonga wrote ---- Dear Internet Community, You are probably aware that AFRINIC, the Regional Internet Registry for Africa, is involved in ongoing litigation, where the plaintiff has sought to have AFRINIC?s bank accounts frozen. In today?s connected world, it is easy to abstract the Internet into simply moving bits and bytes, and forget that there are real people that work hard at building, maintaining and providing support for the systems that you, and the Internet, need to continue working and engaging. The litigation has made it difficult for AFRINIC to meet its financial obligations. Part of these expenses are salaries for the AFRINIC team, who are resolutely working through this difficult period. Whilst we recognise that the legal system has to complete its important process, ?our colleagues still need to survive? during one of the worst pandemics in memory. As an operational entity, that is core to a functioning Internet, AFRINIC still has financial obligations that it must meet to its suppliers. Af-IX , in collaboration with our partners are therefore embarking on a fund-raising exercise to help keep AFRINIC?s core functions and services running for the next three months. As a broader community, we are dependent on this registry, whose service of allocating and registering Internet Number Resources (IPv4, IPv6 and ASN) has enabled communication for the development and growth of the Internet In the African region. We invite you to be part of the community of supporters to ensure that AFRINIC can continue to play the vital role it has, for the sustainable digital growth in Africa. You can choose to donate any amount via the URL below. The funds collected will be used to support the team by ensuring the core functions of AFRINIC continue without risk. DONATE TO KEEP AFRINIC UP BY CLICKING THIS LINK : https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 The Af-IX is ably supported in this initiative by the below partners; Technology Service Providers of Kenya ? TESPOK Tanzania ISP Association ? TISPA Angola ISP Association ? AAPSI Internet Exchange Point of Nigeria ? IXPN For additional information, please feel free to contact us, or any of our partners through the following email addresses below: info at af-ix.net | tespok at tespok.co.ke | secretariat at tispa.or.tz | secretariado at aapsi.og.ao | info at ixp.net.ng For Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), Please visit the Sites Below For Details TESPOK = https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 TISPA = https://tispa.or.tz/fundraising/afrinic ISPA-Angola = https://www.aapsi.og.ao/noticia/fundraising-for-afrinic IXPN = https://ixp.net.ng/news/afrinic-fundraising AF-IX = https://www.af-ix.net/news/2021/08/afrinic-fundraising-campaign We look forward to your kind support. Yours Sincerely, _______________________________________________ Members-Discuss mailing list Members-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 66589 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mail_signature-01.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 66589 bytes Desc: not available URL: From paul.wollner at africaoncloud.net Tue Aug 24 13:41:44 2021 From: paul.wollner at africaoncloud.net (Paul Wollner) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2021 15:41:44 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 832, Issue 2 In-Reply-To: <1707022942.281347.1629757260659.JavaMail.zimbra@tespok.co.ke> References: <1707022942.281347.1629757260659.JavaMail.zimbra@tespok.co.ke> Message-ID: <17b786537cc.10651e708379633.963360814744395092@africaoncloud.net> Hello Fiona, Thank you for the phone call and explaining how things are operating. Regards Paul? ---- On Tue, 24 Aug 2021 00:21:00 +0200 Fiona Asonga wrote ---- Hallo Paul Thank you for your donation. We are updating every 2 days. We are collecting from 3 payment systems and hence the update every 2 days. We encourage everyone making bank transfer payments to send to mailto:finance at tespok.co.ke the transfer confirmation. As soon as funds are sighted at the bank we shall confirm receipt. We sincerely thank those who are supporting the initiative for your support. Kind regards Fiona Asonga Chief Executive Officer Technology Service Providers of Kenya ------------- Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2021 22:34:49 +0200 From: Paul Wollner To: "Fiona Asonga" Cc: Community Discuss , members-discuss ???? Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] FUNDRAISING & ????DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING Message-ID: ????<17b74b90cac.e9bdefd6243681mailto:.1331618714256904885 at africaoncloud.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hello Fiona, Would you care to explain how the funding report (https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14123) is generated? It appears to be a dynamic listing, however the donation that Africa on Cloud has not been listed. I can confirm that the funds did leave our account. Are donations being lost in the system, or is this rather an error on the site? Regards Paul ---- On Tue, 17 Aug 2021 19:40:45 +0200 Fiona Asonga wrote ---- Dear Internet Community, You are probably aware that AFRINIC, the Regional Internet Registry for Africa, is involved in ongoing litigation, where the plaintiff has sought to have AFRINIC?s bank accounts frozen. In today?s connected world, it is easy to abstract the Internet into simply moving bits and bytes, and forget that there are real people that work hard at building, maintaining and providing support for the systems that you, and the Internet, need to continue working and engaging. The litigation has made it difficult for AFRINIC to meet its financial obligations. Part of these expenses are salaries for the AFRINIC team, who are resolutely working through this difficult period.? Whilst we recognise that the legal system has to complete its important process, ?our colleagues still need to survive? during one of the worst pandemics in memory.? As an operational entity, that is core to a functioning Internet, AFRINIC still has financial obligations that it must meet to its suppliers. Af-IX, in collaboration with our partners are therefore embarking on a fund-raising exercise to help keep AFRINIC?s core functions and services running for the next three months. As a broader community, we are dependent on this registry, whose service of allocating and registering Internet Number Resources (IPv4, IPv6 and ASN) has enabled communication for the development and growth of the Internet In the African region. We invite you to be part of the community of supporters to ensure that AFRINIC can continue to play the vital role it has, for the sustainable digital growth in Africa. You can choose to donate any amount via the URL below.? The funds collected will be used to support the team by ensuring the core functions of AFRINIC continue without risk. DONATE TO KEEP AFRINIC UP BY CLICKING THIS LINK:? ?https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 The Af-IX is ably supported in this initiative by the below partners; ? Technology Service Providers of Kenya ??TESPOK Tanzania ISP Association ??TISPA Angola ISP Association ??AAPSI Internet Exchange Point of Nigeria ??IXPN For additional information, please feel free to contact us, or any of our partners through the following email addresses below: ? ? ? ? ? ??mailto:mailto:info at af-ix.net??|?mailto:mailto:tespok at tespok.co.ke?|?mailto:mailto:secretariat at tispa.or.tz?|?mailto:mailto:secretariado at aapsi.og.ao?|?mailto:mailto:info at ixp.net.ng For Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), Please visit the Sites Below For Details TESPOK =?https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 TISPA =?https://tispa.or.tz/fundraising/afrinic ISPA-Angola =?https://www.aapsi.og.ao/noticia/fundraising-for-afrinichttps://www.aapsi.og.ao/noticia/fundraising-for-afrinichttps://www.aapsi.og.ao/noticia/fundraising-for-afrinic IXPN =?https://ixp.net.ng/news/afrinic-fundraising AF-IX =?https://www.af-ix.net/news/2021/08/afrinic-fundraising-campaign We look forward to your kind support. Yours Sincerely, _______________________________________________ Members-Discuss mailing list mailto:Members-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 66589 bytes Desc: not available URL: ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2021 20:49:52 +0000 (UTC) From: Mirriam To: Fiona Asonga , Paul Wollner ???? Cc: Community Discuss , members-discuss ???? Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] FUNDRAISING & ????DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi Paul, On the donation website there is a button that reads FUNDRAISING REPORT. Once you click that, you will be redirected to the link below which is the AFRINIC FUNDRAISING REPORT. https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14123 This is being manually updated and in case you don't see your TRANSACTION ID on the list, be patient as TESPOK will update every after two days. The FAQ section has below question and answer How will the community be informed about the amounts donated and disbursed? TESPOK will publish the total amount donated from both individuals and corporates and the total amount disbursed on the donation web page every 2 days.The names of individual donors will not be published to align with the Kenya Data Protection Act of 2019. Mirriam On Monday, August 23, 2021, 11:35:56 PM GMT+3, Paul Wollner wrote: Hello Fiona, Would you care to explain how the funding report (https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14123) is generated? It appears to be a dynamic listing, however the donation that Africa on Cloud has not been listed. I can confirm that the funds did leave our account. Are donations being lost in the system, or is this rather an error on the site? Regards Paul ---- On Tue, 17 Aug 2021 19:40:45 +0200 Fiona Asonga wrote ---- Dear Internet Community, You are probably aware that AFRINIC, the Regional Internet Registry for Africa, is involved in ongoing litigation, where the plaintiff has sought to have AFRINIC?s bank accounts frozen. In today?s connected world, it is easy to abstract the Internet into simply moving bits and bytes, and forget that there are real people that work hard at building, maintaining and providing support for the systems that you, and the Internet, need to continue working and engaging. The litigation has made it difficult for AFRINIC to meet its financial obligations. Part of these expenses are salaries for the AFRINIC team, who are resolutely working through this difficult period.? Whilst we recognise that the legal system has to complete its important process, ?our colleagues still need to survive? during one of the worst pandemics in memory.? As an operational entity, that is core to a functioning Internet, AFRINIC still has financial obligations that it must meet to its suppliers. Af-IX, in collaboration with our partners are therefore embarking on a fund-raising exercise to help keep AFRINIC?s core functions and services running for the next three months. As a broader community, we are dependent on this registry, whose service of allocating and registering Internet Number Resources (IPv4, IPv6 and ASN) has enabled communication for the development and growth of the Internet In the African region. We invite you to be part of the community of supporters to ensure that AFRINIC can continue to play the vital role it has, for the sustainable digital growth in Africa. You can choose to donate any amount via the URL below.? The funds collected will be used to support the team by ensuring the core functions of AFRINIC continue without risk. DONATE TO KEEP AFRINIC UP BY CLICKING THIS LINK:? ?https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 The Af-IX is ably supported in this initiative by the below partners; ? Technology Service Providers of Kenya ??TESPOK Tanzania ISP Association ??TISPA Angola ISP Association ??AAPSI Internet Exchange Point of Nigeria ??IXPN For additional information, please feel free to contact us, or any of our partners through the following email addresses below: ? ? ? ? ? ??mailto:info at af-ix.net??|?mailto:tespok at tespok.co.ke?|?mailto:secretariat at tispa.or.tz?|?mailto:secretariado at aapsi.og.ao?|?mailto:info at ixp.net.ng For Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), Please visit the Sites Below For Details TESPOK =?https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 TISPA =?https://tispa.or.tz/fundraising/afrinic ISPA-Angola =?https://www.aapsi.og.ao/noticia/fundraising-for-afrinic IXPN =?https://ixp.net.ng/news/afrinic-fundraising AF-IX =?https://www.af-ix.net/news/2021/08/afrinic-fundraising-campaign We look forward to your kind support. Yours Sincerely, _______________________________________________ Members-Discuss mailing list mailto:Members-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 66589 bytes Desc: not available URL: ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ------------------------------ End of Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 832, Issue 2 ************************************************* _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tespok at tespok.co.ke Tue Aug 24 13:44:18 2021 From: tespok at tespok.co.ke (Fiona Asonga) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2021 16:44:18 +0300 (EAT) Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: <684083881.285844.1629811666968.JavaMail.zimbra@tespok.co.ke> References: <720985464.253669.1629222045058.JavaMail.zimbra@tespok.co.ke> <17b74b90cac.e9bdefd6243681.1331618714256904885@africaoncloud.net> <684083881.285844.1629811666968.JavaMail.zimbra@tespok.co.ke> Message-ID: <1511880533.287660.1629812658814.JavaMail.zimbra@tespok.co.ke> Sorry for zoom link it should be the TESPOK link https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14123 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fiona Asonga" To: "Paul Wollner" Cc: "Community Discuss" , "members-discuss" Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2021 4:27:46 PM Subject: Re: [members-discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING Hallo Paul, We confirm receipt of your contribution towards AFRINIC of USD 10.00 and USD 200.00 as per the list on https://zoom.us/j/93529421913?pwd=TTRlbndzV2orT2pSaHZpOWRjMW5qUT09 via the card payment gateway where both the Visa card and MasterCard were successfully executed. There is no money that has gotten lost in the system. Payments made over the weekend will be reflected during the update cycle on Tuesday . The next update shall be on Friday . Thank you for your kind support. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Wollner" To: "Fiona Asonga" Cc: "members-discuss" , "Community Discuss" Sent: Monday, August 23, 2021 11:34:49 PM Subject: Re: [members-discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING Hello Fiona, Would you care to explain how the funding report ( https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14123 ) is generated? It appears to be a dynamic listing, however the donation that Africa on Cloud has not been listed. I can confirm that the funds did leave our account. Are donations being lost in the system, or is this rather an error on the site? Regards Paul ---- On Tue, 17 Aug 2021 19:40:45 +0200 Fiona Asonga wrote ---- Dear Internet Community, You are probably aware that AFRINIC, the Regional Internet Registry for Africa, is involved in ongoing litigation, where the plaintiff has sought to have AFRINIC?s bank accounts frozen. In today?s connected world, it is easy to abstract the Internet into simply moving bits and bytes, and forget that there are real people that work hard at building, maintaining and providing support for the systems that you, and the Internet, need to continue working and engaging. The litigation has made it difficult for AFRINIC to meet its financial obligations. Part of these expenses are salaries for the AFRINIC team, who are resolutely working through this difficult period. Whilst we recognise that the legal system has to complete its important process, ?our colleagues still need to survive? during one of the worst pandemics in memory. As an operational entity, that is core to a functioning Internet, AFRINIC still has financial obligations that it must meet to its suppliers. Af-IX , in collaboration with our partners are therefore embarking on a fund-raising exercise to help keep AFRINIC?s core functions and services running for the next three months. As a broader community, we are dependent on this registry, whose service of allocating and registering Internet Number Resources (IPv4, IPv6 and ASN) has enabled communication for the development and growth of the Internet In the African region. We invite you to be part of the community of supporters to ensure that AFRINIC can continue to play the vital role it has, for the sustainable digital growth in Africa. You can choose to donate any amount via the URL below. The funds collected will be used to support the team by ensuring the core functions of AFRINIC continue without risk. DONATE TO KEEP AFRINIC UP BY CLICKING THIS LINK : https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 The Af-IX is ably supported in this initiative by the below partners; Technology Service Providers of Kenya ? TESPOK Tanzania ISP Association ? TISPA Angola ISP Association ? AAPSI Internet Exchange Point of Nigeria ? IXPN For additional information, please feel free to contact us, or any of our partners through the following email addresses below: info at af-ix.net | tespok at tespok.co.ke | secretariat at tispa.or.tz | secretariado at aapsi.og.ao | info at ixp.net.ng For Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), Please visit the Sites Below For Details TESPOK = https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001 TISPA = https://tispa.or.tz/fundraising/afrinic ISPA-Angola = https://www.aapsi.og.ao/noticia/fundraising-for-afrinic IXPN = https://ixp.net.ng/news/afrinic-fundraising AF-IX = https://www.af-ix.net/news/2021/08/afrinic-fundraising-campaign We look forward to your kind support. Yours Sincerely, _______________________________________________ Members-Discuss mailing list Members-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss _______________________________________________ Members-Discuss mailing list Members-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mail_signature-01.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 66589 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 66589 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: mail_signature-01.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 66589 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rfg at tristatelogic.com Tue Aug 24 15:56:35 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2021 08:56:35 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Ancient History Message-ID: <31555.1629820595@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Far be it from me to attempt to entice Owen into any violations of the (allegedly) rather draconian Mauritian sub judice rules or to beguile him into answering any questions about current situations and circumstances which he may not be eager to comment on. I shall do neither. I am however hoping that Owen may be able to comment on some long-ago events that took place in a different region, and which have no apparent bearing whatsoever on the current conflict between his client/employer, Cloud Innovation, and AFRINIC. I see nothing that would prevent him from providing information about events long ago and far away, and given his apparent current business relationship(s) together with his unquestioned knowledge of how to read WHOIS records, I, for one, would greatly value his opinion on a couple of things. I should begin by stating my assumptions, some or all of which may be wrong, and asking Owen if he can either confirm or refute any of these, specifically: a) that the Lu Heng who is the current primary stockholder of Cloud Innocation, Ltd. (Seychelles) which is currently involved in litigation against AFRINIC is the same Lu Heng who previously was the registrant of certain IPv4 address blocks within the RIPE region, and... b) that this same Lu Heng is or was also the prmary stockholder of another company referred to in RIPE records as ORG-HLTA1-RIPE aka "Wu Han YunWaiHeng information Technology, Co,Ltd." (CN) Owen, would you disagree with either of the above two assumptions/assertions on my part? Assuming that the answer is "no" on both counts, then I have just a couple of additional questions for Owen relating to the following simple timeline that I put together which, I believe, shows events relating to the various RIPE-region IPv4 allocations that are or were associated with the organisation handle ORG-HLTA1-RIPE: https://pastebin.com/raw/nZuN9xVn Owen, if you wold be so kind, I am hoping that you can answer the following rather simple questions relating to the timeline linked to above. I am not aware of any reason why you would be unable to answer these questions, given that doing so cannot possibly implicate any issues currently being adjudicated within any Mauritian courts, and given that these questions have most certainly not been put to you prior to today, let alone previously answered by you. 0) Is the timeline presented at the link above accurate and correct as far as you can tell? If not, what inaccuracies, specifically, does it contain? 1) True or false? Between June of 2010 and September of 2012, Lu Heng became the registrant of some 463,872 IPv4 addresses issued by RIPE. 2) True or false? At the present time, the organization designated by the handle ORG-HLTA1-RIPE is the registrant of 5,120 IPv4 addresses issued by RIPE. 3) True or false? Between January of 2015 and December of 2016 some 458,752 IPv4 addresses which had previously been registered to the organisation designated by the handle ORG-HLTA1-RIPE became registered to other and different organizations. Regards, rfg From owen at delong.com Tue Aug 24 16:12:32 2021 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2021 09:12:32 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Ancient History In-Reply-To: <31555.1629820595@segfault.tristatelogic.com> References: <31555.1629820595@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: > > I should begin by stating my assumptions, some or all of which may be wrong, > and asking Owen if he can either confirm or refute any of these, specifically: > > a) that the Lu Heng who is the current primary stockholder of Cloud > Innocation, Ltd. (Seychelles) which is currently involved in > litigation against AFRINIC is the same Lu Heng who previously was > the registrant of certain IPv4 address blocks within the RIPE region, > and... > > b) that this same Lu Heng is or was also the prmary stockholder of > another company referred to in RIPE records as ORG-HLTA1-RIPE > aka "Wu Han YunWaiHeng information Technology, Co,Ltd." (CN) > > Owen, would you disagree with either of the above two assumptions/assertions > on my part? Regarding a, I can only state that it is my understanding from Lu that he once held space in RIPE. Beyond that, I lack sufficient knowledge to either confirm or deny your assertion. I have no knowledge base on which I could confirm or deny anything about b, so I don?t know how to answer your question there as I lack the necessary knowledge to agree or disagree with your assertion. > Assuming that the answer is "no" on both counts, then I have just a couple > of additional questions for Owen relating to the following simple timeline > that I put together which, I believe, shows events relating to the various > RIPE-region IPv4 allocations that are or were associated with the organisation > handle ORG-HLTA1-RIPE: Since I can neither answer yes or no completely to either of your questions, this assertion fails and I therefore presume that the remaining questions are not relevant. Owen From noah at neo.co.tz Tue Aug 24 17:40:53 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2021 20:40:53 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Ancient History In-Reply-To: <31555.1629820595@segfault.tristatelogic.com> References: <31555.1629820595@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 24 Aug 2021, 19:03 Ronald F. Guilmette, wrote: > > timeline > that I put together which, I believe, shows events relating to the various > RIPE-region IPv4 allocations that are or were associated with the > organisation > handle ORG-HLTA1-RIPE: > > https://pastebin.com/raw/nZuN9xVn So, after seeing Vodafone as one of the Orgs in the list, I am reminded of the post by, Leo S from Myanmar, who claimed as per the thread below that Lu sold space to Vodafone. https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2021-July/004249.html Would Leo perhaps shade more light incase you read this. Cheers, Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amelnaud at gmail.com Tue Aug 24 20:22:11 2021 From: amelnaud at gmail.com (Arnaud AMELINA) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2021 20:22:11 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Ancient History In-Reply-To: References: <31555.1629820595@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: Fren h version Hummmm! Chers membres de la communaut?, C'est tr?s int?ressant de constater que Notre cher Owen champion en d?monstration par la rh?torique, afin de prouver que sa compr?hension des choses est la meilleure et que toute autre interpr?tation rel?ve d'incomp?tence et o? d'ignorance, serait devenu tr?s silencieux, voir fuyant devant une simple question n?cessitant une simple r?ponse bool?enne (oui ou non) pos?e par John. Maintenant il devient b?gue, devant, l? aussi de simples questions n?cessitant tout aussi de simples r?ponses bool?ennes, questions pos?es par Ronald. Notre cher, Monsieur je sais tout, brusquement, ne sais pas si.... Ou bien il ne veut pas de prononcer sur une affaire pendante en justice...., donc il devient s?lectif en fonction de qui lui pose les questions, si c'est une personne qui le conna?t tres bien, il feinte et refuse de r?p?ter une r?ponse qu'il aurait donn?... Bla Bla Bla.... On sait maintenant qui est qui et qui peut quoi. Un adage de chez nis voisin de C?te d'Ivoire dit : "tu as Rencontr? Gar?on..." Que ceux qui doutent maintenant se fassent une raison de comprendre mieux la situation qui se pr?sente et qu'ils se fassent leur id?e sur qui supporter. English version : Hmmmm! Dear community members, It is very interesting to note that Our dear Owen champion in demonstration by rhetoric, in order to prove that his understanding of things is the best and that any other interpretation is incompetent and where ignorance, would have become very silent, see fleeing from a simple question requiring a simple Boolean answer (yes or no) posed by John. Now he becomes stutterer, in front of, again simple questions requiring just as simple Boolean answers, questions asked by Ronald. Our dear, Mister, I know everything, suddenly, do not know if ... Or he does not want to pronounce on a pending case ..., so he becomes selective depending on who asks him the questions, if it is a person who knows him very well, he pretends and refuses to repeat an answer he would have given ... Bla Bla Bla .... We now know who is who and who can do what. An adage from our neighbor in Ivory Coast says: "to day you met a boy ..." Let those who are now in doubt find a reason to better understand the situation at hand and make up their minds on who to support. -- Arnaud Le mar. 24 ao?t 2021 ? 16:14, Owen DeLong via Community-Discuss < community-discuss at afrinic.net> a ?crit : > > > > I should begin by stating my assumptions, some or all of which may be > wrong, > > and asking Owen if he can either confirm or refute any of these, > specifically: > > > > a) that the Lu Heng who is the current primary stockholder of Cloud > > Innocation, Ltd. (Seychelles) which is currently involved in > > litigation against AFRINIC is the same Lu Heng who previously was > > the registrant of certain IPv4 address blocks within the RIPE > region, > > and... > > > > b) that this same Lu Heng is or was also the prmary stockholder of > > another company referred to in RIPE records as ORG-HLTA1-RIPE > > aka "Wu Han YunWaiHeng information Technology, Co,Ltd." (CN) > > > > Owen, would you disagree with either of the above two > assumptions/assertions > > on my part? > > Regarding a, I can only state that it is my understanding from Lu that he > once held space in RIPE. Beyond that, I lack sufficient knowledge to either > confirm or deny your assertion. > > I have no knowledge base on which I could confirm or deny anything about b, > so I don?t know how to answer your question there as I lack the necessary > knowledge to agree or disagree with your assertion. > > > Assuming that the answer is "no" on both counts, then I have just a > couple > > of additional questions for Owen relating to the following simple > timeline > > that I put together which, I believe, shows events relating to the > various > > RIPE-region IPv4 allocations that are or were associated with the > organisation > > handle ORG-HLTA1-RIPE: > > Since I can neither answer yes or no completely to either of your > questions, > this assertion fails and I therefore presume that the remaining questions > are not relevant. > > Owen > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rfg at tristatelogic.com Wed Aug 25 00:39:50 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2021 17:39:50 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Ancient History In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <33302.1629851990@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In message Arnaud AMELINA wrote: > Now he becomes stutterer, in front of, again simple questions requiring >just as simple Boolean answers, questions asked by Ronald. These are difficult times and it is only natural that emotions are running high. Nontheless I would ask that everyone be as generous and respectful as possible, even under the present hard circumstances. It is entirely understandable that Owen should not have complete and very detailed knowledge of the entire history of all of the prior business endeavors of all of his consulting clients, back to the beginning of time. This is no sin. None of us knows everything about everyone. And it is sufficient for me that he has answered honestly, and said that he is not in possession of any contrary facts which might cause him to dispute the information that I posted. Arguably, it is of more concern that, having been asked the questions, Owen does not appear to be particularly eager to plumb these historical depths, or to ask his employer any questions relating to these past events. But even that is forgivable, I think. It is said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone", and who among us, being human as we all are, has not on occasion found himself reluctant to inquire too deeply into certain subjects out of a reasonable concern about what we might learn by so doing? Regards, rfg From paul.wollner at africaoncloud.net Wed Aug 25 06:24:01 2021 From: paul.wollner at africaoncloud.net (Paul Wollner) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2021 08:24:01 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNING In-Reply-To: <1511880533.287660.1629812658814.JavaMail.zimbra@tespok.co.ke> References: <720985464.253669.1629222045058.JavaMail.zimbra@tespok.co.ke> <17b74b90cac.e9bdefd6243681.1331618714256904885@africaoncloud.net> <684083881.285844.1629811666968.JavaMail.zimbra@tespok.co.ke> <1511880533.287660.1629812658814.JavaMail.zimbra@tespok.co.ke> Message-ID: <17b7bfad554.e74a8bf9146455.8731607774500720949@africaoncloud.net> Hello FionaJust to clarify, Africa on Cloud made a single donation of 10 USD. The 200 USD amount would be from another organisation.?RegardsPaul---- On Tue, 24 Aug 2021 15:44:18 +0200 Fiona Asonga wrote ----Sorry for zoom link it should be the TESPOK link?https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14123?From: "Fiona Asonga" To: "Paul Wollner" Cc: "Community Discuss" , "members-discuss" Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2021 4:27:46 PMSubject: Re: [members-discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNINGHallo Paul,We confirm receipt of your contribution towards AFRINIC of USD 10.00 and USD 200.00 as per the list on?https://zoom.us/j/93529421913?pwd=TTRlbndzV2orT2pSaHZpOWRjMW5qUT09via the card payment gateway where both the Visa card and MasterCard were successfully executed. There is no money that has gotten lost in the system.?Payments made over the weekend will be reflected during the update cycle onTuesday. The next update shall be on?Friday.?Thank you for your kind support.From: "Paul Wollner" To: "Fiona Asonga" Cc: "members-discuss" , "Community Discuss" Sent: Monday, August 23, 2021 11:34:49 PMSubject: Re: [members-discuss] FUNDRAISING & DONATIONS - TO KEEP AFRINIC RUNNINGHello Fiona,Would you care to explain how the funding report (https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14123) is generated? It appears to be a dynamic listing, however the donation that Africa on Cloud has not been listed. I can confirm that the funds did leave our account.Are donations being lost in the system, or is this rather an error on the site?RegardsPaul---- On Tue, 17 Aug 2021 19:40:45 +0200 Fiona Asonga wrote ----Dear Internet Community,You are probably aware that AFRINIC, the Regional Internet Registry for Africa, is involved in ongoing litigation, where the plaintiff has sought to have AFRINIC?s bank accounts frozen. In today?s connected world, it is easy to abstract the Internet into simply moving bits and bytes, and forget that there are real people that work hard at building, maintaining and providing support for the systems that you, and the Internet, need to continue working and engaging.The litigation has made it difficult for AFRINIC to meet its financial obligations. Part of these expenses are salaries for the AFRINIC team, who are resolutely working through this difficult period.? Whilst we recognise that the legal system has to complete its important process, ?our colleagues still need to survive? during one of the worst pandemics in memory.? As an operational entity, that is core to a functioning Internet, AFRINIC still has financial obligations that it must meet to its suppliers.Af-IX, in collaboration with our partners are therefore embarking on a fund-raising exercise to help keep AFRINIC?s core functions and services running for the next three months. As a broader community, we are dependent on this registry, whose service of allocating and registering Internet Number Resources (IPv4, IPv6 and ASN) has enabled communication for the development and growth of the Internet In the African region.We invite you to be part of the community of supporters to ensure that AFRINIC can continue to play the vital role it has, for the sustainable digital growth in Africa.You can choose to donate any amount via the URL below.? The funds collected will be used to support the team by ensuring the core functions of AFRINIC continue without risk.DONATE TO KEEP AFRINIC UP BY CLICKING THIS LINK:? ?https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001The Af-IX is ably supported in this initiative by the below partners; ?Technology Service Providers of Kenya ??TESPOKTanzania ISP Association ??TISPAAngola ISP Association ??AAPSIInternet Exchange Point of Nigeria ??IXPNFor additional information, please feel free to contact us, or any of our partners through the following email addresses below:? ? ? ? ? ??info at af-ix.net??|?tespok at tespok.co.ke?|?secretariat at tispa.or.tz?|?secretariado at aapsi.og.ao?|?info at ixp.net.ngFor Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), Please visit the Sites Below For DetailsTESPOK =?https://www.tespok.co.ke/?page_id=14001TISPA =?https://tispa.or.tz/fundraising/afrinicISPA-Angola =?https://www.aapsi.og.ao/noticia/fundraising-for-afrinicIXPN =?https://ixp.net.ng/news/afrinic-fundraisingAF-IX =?https://www.af-ix.net/news/2021/08/afrinic-fundraising-campaignWe look forward to your kind support.Yours Sincerely,_______________________________________________ Members-Discuss mailing list Members-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss _______________________________________________Members-Discuss mailing listMembers-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 3.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 66589 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 66589 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 66589 bytes Desc: not available URL: From comms at afrinic.net Wed Aug 25 18:29:25 2021 From: comms at afrinic.net (AFRINIC Communication) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2021 22:29:25 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: [members-discuss] Legal update Aug 25th 2021 - with translation References: <6742707A-8347-4F06-A061-D04ECB720823@afrinic.net> Message-ID: <1F7963DF-FA98-4FC5-B991-1A36C5B4597C@afrinic.net> Dear Community, Please see a message that was shared with members earlier. Kind regards, AFRINIC Communications > Begin forwarded message: > > From: AFRINIC Communication > Subject: Fwd: [members-discuss] Legal update Aug 25th 2021 - with translation > Date: 25 August 2021 at 22:25:19 GMT+4 > To: members-discuss > > [French, Arabic and Portuguese versions below] > > Dear Members, > > AFRINIC is pleased to inform you that, in regard to its application made last week whereby it sought the removal of the existing Provisional Attachment Order or alternatively, a reduction of the amount of money frozen in its bank accounts, the matter was called before the Honourable Judge in Chambers of the Supreme Court of Mauritius this morning and whilst its prayer for the removal of the Provisional Attachment Order has not been acceded to at this stage, more so that it is connected to another substantive case for the validation of the said attachment order, yet the Learned Judge has acceded to AFRINIC's prayer to have access to part of its funds so as to meet its vital expenses for the months of July & August 2021. > > Thus today's outcome is a huge relief for AFRINIC as it will be able to pay, amongst others, the salaries of its staff for the month of August as well as those staff who could not get paid in July. > > As regards all other connected cases, we assure you that AFRINIC is pursuing its defence against all claims made by Cloud Innovation and we hold full confidence in the justice system. > > Still, if the validation case is not resolved expeditiously, do note that AFRINIC will have to renew its prayer for access to its funds before the Learned Judge for the purposes of meeting its vital expenses for the month of September 2021. > > We rely on your usual understanding and support. > > Kind regards, > > Eddy Kayihura > Chief Executive Officer > AFRINIC > > ???????????.. > > Chers Membres, > > AFRINIC a le plaisir de vous informer que sa demande faite la semaine derni?re, quant ? l?annulation de l'ordonnance de saisie provisoire existante ou, alternativement, une r?duction du montant du gel sur ses comptes bancaires, a ?t? appel?e devant l'honorable juge de la chambre commerciale de la Cour supr?me de Maurice en ce jour. Et bien que notre demande d?annulation de l'ordonnance de saisie provisoire n'ait pas ?t? accept?e ? ce stade, vue qu'elle est li?e ? l?affaire de fond encore pendante, le juge a n?anmoins acc?d? ? la demande d'AFRINIC d'avoir acc?s ? une partie de ses fonds afin de faire face ? ses d?penses vitales relatives aux mois de juillet et ao?t 2021. > > Ainsi, cette d?cision du Juge est un ?norme soulagement pour AFRINIC qui pourra honorer, entre autres, les salaires de son personnel du mois d'ao?t ainsi que ceux impay?s en juillet. > > En ce qui concerne toutes les autres affaires connexes encore pendantes, nous voulons vous assurer qu'AFRINIC maintient et am?liore sa d?fense contre toutes les r?clamations faites par Cloud Innovation et tout en faisant une pleine confiance dans le syst?me judiciaire. > > Cependant si notre demande d?annulation de l?ordonnance de saisie provisoire n'est pas trait?e rapidement, AFRINIC devra soumettre une nouvelle demande d'acc?s ? ses fonds devant le juge afin de faire face ? ses d?penses relatives au mois de septembre 2021. > > Nous vous remercions pour votre compr?hension et votre soutien continu. > > Eddy Kayihura > > Directeur General > AFRINIC > > ??????????????????.. > > > > ??????? ??????? ? > > > ??? AFRINIC ?? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ??????? ?????? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ?????? ?? ? ????? ?? ??? ? ????? ???? ??????? ??????? ?? ???????? ???????? ? ??? ?? ??????? ????? ???? ???????. ???? ?? ??? ??????? ?????? ????????? ??? ?????? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ???????? ???? ?? ??? ??????? ? ???? ?? ???? ??????? ????? ??????? ???? ???????? ??? ??? ????? ??????? ??? ??? ? ???? ?????? ??????? ??? ???? AFRINIC ?????? ??? ??? ?? ??????? ?????? ??????? ??????? ????? ????? ?????? 2021. > > ???????? ? ??? ????? ????? ?? ???? ?????? ???? ?? AFRINIC ????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ? ?? ??? ???? ???? ? ????? ??????? ???? ????? ????? ???????? ????? ?? ??????? ?? ?????? ??? ??????? ?? ?????. > > ???? ????? ????? ??????? ?????? ??? ????? ? ???? ?? ?? AFRINIC ????? ?????? ?? ???? ????????? ??????? ?? Cloud Innovation ?????? ??? ????? ?? ???? ???????. > > ??? ??? ? ??? ?? ??? ?? ???? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ??? ?????? ? ???? ?????? ??? ?????? ??? AFRINIC ????? ?????? ?????? ??? ??????? ???? ?????? ???????? ?????? ????? ??????? ??????? ???? ?????? 2021. > > ??? ????? ??? ????? ????? ???????. > > ???? ???????? > ?????? ???????? ????? AFRINIC > ?????.. > > > Caros membros, > > AFRINIC tem o prazer de informar que, relativamente ao seu pedido feito na semana passada, no qual pretendia a retirada da Ordem de Penhora Provis?ria existente ou, em alternativa, uma redu??o do montante de dinheiro congelado nas suas contas banc?rias, a quest?o foi chamada esta manh? perante o Honor?vel Juiz das C?maras do Supremo Tribunal das Maur?cias e enquanto a sua ora??o para a retirada da Ordem de Penhora Provis?ria n?o foi acedida nesta fase, mais para que esteja ligado a outro caso substantivo para a valida??o da referida ordem de penhora, no entanto, o Juiz Learned aderiu ? ora??o da AFRINIC para ter acesso a parte dos seus fundos de modo a fazer face ?s suas despesas vitais para os meses de Julho & Agosto de 2021. > > Assim, o resultado de hoje ? um enorme al?vio para a AFRINIC, uma vez que poder? pagar, entre outros, os sal?rios do seu pessoal para o m?s de Agosto, bem como os do pessoal que n?o p?de ser pago em Julho. > > No que diz respeito a todos os outros casos relacionados, asseguramos que a AFRINIC est? a prosseguir a sua defesa contra todas as reivindica??es feitas pela Cloud Innovation e temos plena confian?a no sistema judicial. > > Ainda assim, se o caso de valida??o n?o for resolvido rapidamente, note que a AFRINIC ter? de renovar a sua ora??o para ter acesso aos seus fundos perante o Juiz Learned, com o objectivo de cobrir as suas despesas vitais para o m?s de Setembro de 2021. > > Contamos com a sua habitual compreens?o e apoio. > > Eddy Kayihura > > Chefe do Executivo > AFRINIC > >> Begin forwarded message: >> >> From: Eddy Kayihura > >> Subject: [members-discuss] Legal update Aug 25th 2021 >> Date: 25 August 2021 at 21:47:04 GMT+4 >> To: AfriNIC Discuss > >> >> Dear Members, >> >> AFRINIC is pleased to inform you that, in regard to its application made last week whereby it sought the removal of the existing Provisional Attachment Order or alternatively, a reduction of the amount of money frozen in its bank accounts, the matter was called before the Honourable Judge in Chambers of the Supreme Court of Mauritius this morning and whilst its prayer for the removal of the Provisional Attachment Order has not been acceded to at this stage, more so that it is connected to another substantive case for the validation of the said attachment order, yet the Learned Judge has acceded to AFRINIC's prayer to have access to part of its funds so as to meet its vital expenses for the months of July & August 2021. >> >> Thus today's outcome is a huge relief for AFRINIC as it will be able to pay, amongst others, the salaries of its staff for the month of August as well as those staff who could not get paid in July. >> >> As regard all other connected cases, we assure you that AFRINIC is pursuing its defence against all claims made by Cloud Innovation and we hold full confidence in the justice system. >> >> Still, if the validation case is not resolved expeditiously, do note that AFRINIC will have to renew its prayer for access to its funds before the Learned Judge for the purposes of meeting its vital expenses for the month of September 2021. >> >> We rely on your usual understanding and support. >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Eddy Kayihura >> Chief Executive Officer >> AFRINIC >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Members-Discuss mailing list >> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dewole at tinitop.com Wed Aug 25 19:14:42 2021 From: dewole at tinitop.com (Dewole Ajao [Tinitop Technologies]) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2021 20:14:42 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: [members-discuss] Legal update Aug 25th 2021 - with translation In-Reply-To: <1F7963DF-FA98-4FC5-B991-1A36C5B4597C@afrinic.net> References: <1F7963DF-FA98-4FC5-B991-1A36C5B4597C@afrinic.net> Message-ID: <988FD714-7CF6-4723-8126-7F79B729EDC7@tinitop.com> It?s really good to hear this! ?Shame to bad pipu!? as dem dey talk am for our side. ? Sent from a mobile device > On Aug 25, 2021, at 19:31, AFRINIC Communication wrote: > > ? > Dear Community, > > Please see a message that was shared with members earlier. > > Kind regards, > > AFRINIC Communications > >> Begin forwarded message: >> >> From: AFRINIC Communication >> Subject: Fwd: [members-discuss] Legal update Aug 25th 2021 - with translation >> Date: 25 August 2021 at 22:25:19 GMT+4 >> To: members-discuss >> >> [French, Arabic and Portuguese versions below] >> >> Dear Members, >> >> AFRINIC is pleased to inform you that, in regard to its application made last week whereby it sought the removal of the existing Provisional Attachment Order or alternatively, a reduction of the amount of money frozen in its bank accounts, the matter was called before the Honourable Judge in Chambers of the Supreme Court of Mauritius this morning and whilst its prayer for the removal of the Provisional Attachment Order has not been acceded to at this stage, more so that it is connected to another substantive case for the validation of the said attachment order, yet the Learned Judge has acceded to AFRINIC's prayer to have access to part of its funds so as to meet its vital expenses for the months of July & August 2021. >> >> Thus today's outcome is a huge relief for AFRINIC as it will be able to pay, amongst others, the salaries of its staff for the month of August as well as those staff who could not get paid in July. >> >> As regards all other connected cases, we assure you that AFRINIC is pursuing its defence against all claims made by Cloud Innovation and we hold full confidence in the justice system. >> >> Still, if the validation case is not resolved expeditiously, do note that AFRINIC will have to renew its prayer for access to its funds before the Learned Judge for the purposes of meeting its vital expenses for the month of September 2021. >> >> We rely on your usual understanding and support. >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Eddy Kayihura >> Chief Executive Officer >> AFRINIC >> >> ???????????.. >> >> Chers Membres, >> >> AFRINIC a le plaisir de vous informer que sa demande faite la semaine derni?re, quant ? l?annulation de l'ordonnance de saisie provisoire existante ou, alternativement, une r?duction du montant du gel sur ses comptes bancaires, a ?t? appel?e devant l'honorable juge de la chambre commerciale de la Cour supr?me de Maurice en ce jour. Et bien que notre demande d?annulation de l'ordonnance de saisie provisoire n'ait pas ?t? accept?e ? ce stade, vue qu'elle est li?e ? l?affaire de fond encore pendante, le juge a n?anmoins acc?d? ? la demande d'AFRINIC d'avoir acc?s ? une partie de ses fonds afin de faire face ? ses d?penses vitales relatives aux mois de juillet et ao?t 2021. >> >> Ainsi, cette d?cision du Juge est un ?norme soulagement pour AFRINIC qui pourra honorer, entre autres, les salaires de son personnel du mois d'ao?t ainsi que ceux impay?s en juillet. >> >> En ce qui concerne toutes les autres affaires connexes encore pendantes, nous voulons vous assurer qu'AFRINIC maintient et am?liore sa d?fense contre toutes les r?clamations faites par Cloud Innovation et tout en faisant une pleine confiance dans le syst?me judiciaire. >> >> Cependant si notre demande d?annulation de l?ordonnance de saisie provisoire n'est pas trait?e rapidement, AFRINIC devra soumettre une nouvelle demande d'acc?s ? ses fonds devant le juge afin de faire face ? ses d?penses relatives au mois de septembre 2021. >> >> Nous vous remercions pour votre compr?hension et votre soutien continu. >> >> Eddy Kayihura >> >> Directeur General >> AFRINIC >> >> ??????????????????.. >> >> >> >> ??????? ??????? ? >> >> >> ??? AFRINIC ?? ?????? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ??????? ?????? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ?????? ?? ? ????? ?? ??? ? ????? ???? ??????? ??????? ?? ???????? ???????? ? ??? ?? ??????? ????? ???? ???????. ???? ?? ??? ??????? ?????? ????????? ??? ?????? ?????? ????? ?? ??? ????? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ???????? ???? ?? ??? ??????? ? ???? ?? ???? ??????? ????? ??????? ???? ???????? ??? ??? ????? ??????? ??? ??? ? ???? ?????? ??????? ??? ???? AFRINIC ?????? ??? ??? ?? ??????? ?????? ??????? ??????? ????? ????? ?????? 2021. >> >> ???????? ? ??? ????? ????? ?? ???? ?????? ???? ?? AFRINIC ????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ? ?? ??? ???? ???? ? ????? ??????? ???? ????? ????? ???????? ????? ?? ??????? ?? ?????? ??? ??????? ?? ?????. >> >> ???? ????? ????? ??????? ?????? ??? ????? ? ???? ?? ?? AFRINIC ????? ?????? ?? ???? ????????? ??????? ?? Cloud Innovation ?????? ??? ????? ?? ???? ???????. >> >> ??? ??? ? ??? ?? ??? ?? ???? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ??? ?????? ? ???? ?????? ??? ?????? ??? AFRINIC ????? ?????? ?????? ??? ??????? ???? ?????? ???????? ?????? ????? ??????? ??????? ???? ?????? 2021. >> >> ??? ????? ??? ????? ????? ???????. >> >> ???? ???????? >> ?????? ???????? ????? AFRINIC >> ?????.. >> >> >> Caros membros, >> >> AFRINIC tem o prazer de informar que, relativamente ao seu pedido feito na semana passada, no qual pretendia a retirada da Ordem de Penhora Provis?ria existente ou, em alternativa, uma redu??o do montante de dinheiro congelado nas suas contas banc?rias, a quest?o foi chamada esta manh? perante o Honor?vel Juiz das C?maras do Supremo Tribunal das Maur?cias e enquanto a sua ora??o para a retirada da Ordem de Penhora Provis?ria n?o foi acedida nesta fase, mais para que esteja ligado a outro caso substantivo para a valida??o da referida ordem de penhora, no entanto, o Juiz Learned aderiu ? ora??o da AFRINIC para ter acesso a parte dos seus fundos de modo a fazer face ?s suas despesas vitais para os meses de Julho & Agosto de 2021. >> >> Assim, o resultado de hoje ? um enorme al?vio para a AFRINIC, uma vez que poder? pagar, entre outros, os sal?rios do seu pessoal para o m?s de Agosto, bem como os do pessoal que n?o p?de ser pago em Julho. >> >> No que diz respeito a todos os outros casos relacionados, asseguramos que a AFRINIC est? a prosseguir a sua defesa contra todas as reivindica??es feitas pela Cloud Innovation e temos plena confian?a no sistema judicial. >> >> Ainda assim, se o caso de valida??o n?o for resolvido rapidamente, note que a AFRINIC ter? de renovar a sua ora??o para ter acesso aos seus fundos perante o Juiz Learned, com o objectivo de cobrir as suas despesas vitais para o m?s de Setembro de 2021. >> >> Contamos com a sua habitual compreens?o e apoio. >> >> Eddy Kayihura >> >> Chefe do Executivo >> AFRINIC >> >>> Begin forwarded message: >>> >>> From: Eddy Kayihura >>> Subject: [members-discuss] Legal update Aug 25th 2021 >>> Date: 25 August 2021 at 21:47:04 GMT+4 >>> To: AfriNIC Discuss >>> >>> Dear Members, >>> >>> AFRINIC is pleased to inform you that, in regard to its application made last week whereby it sought the removal of the existing Provisional Attachment Order or alternatively, a reduction of the amount of money frozen in its bank accounts, the matter was called before the Honourable Judge in Chambers of the Supreme Court of Mauritius this morning and whilst its prayer for the removal of the Provisional Attachment Order has not been acceded to at this stage, more so that it is connected to another substantive case for the validation of the said attachment order, yet the Learned Judge has acceded to AFRINIC's prayer to have access to part of its funds so as to meet its vital expenses for the months of July & August 2021. >>> >>> Thus today's outcome is a huge relief for AFRINIC as it will be able to pay, amongst others, the salaries of its staff for the month of August as well as those staff who could not get paid in July. >>> >>> As regard all other connected cases, we assure you that AFRINIC is pursuing its defence against all claims made by Cloud Innovation and we hold full confidence in the justice system. >>> >>> Still, if the validation case is not resolved expeditiously, do note that AFRINIC will have to renew its prayer for access to its funds before the Learned Judge for the purposes of meeting its vital expenses for the month of September 2021. >>> >>> We rely on your usual understanding and support. >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> >>> Eddy Kayihura >>> Chief Executive Officer >>> AFRINIC >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Members-Discuss mailing list >>> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss >> > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From abscoco at gmail.com Fri Aug 27 19:31:10 2021 From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain Baya) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2021 20:31:10 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Clarifications & Clear Support to the INRS, to AfriNIC and its Regional Community Message-ID: Dear AfriNIC's Community, Hope this email finds you in good health... ...i'm really thankful to John for his clear support to the Internet Numbers Registry System (INRS) aka RFC7020 [1] and to its kind words and support both to AfriNIC and its *Regional* (Internet) community. Remain blessed brother! __ [1]: ~?~ "[...] If AFRINIC requests support in accordance with the Joint RIR Stability Fund, ARIN will support such a request. Furthermore, and without reservation, ARIN stands by its unwavering commitment to support AFRINIC and will take any and all measures necessary to ensure that neither the African networking community, nor the global Internet number registry system, is operationally impacted during this period. AFRINIC was formed (and has accomplished so much) for the benefit of the African networking community and ARIN stands with the community in dealing with those who seek to disrupt or exploit it for their own benefit. [...]" ~?~ ...icymi, please read the full blog post here [2]. __ [2]: < https://teamarin.net/2021/08/27/afrinic-and-the-stability-of-the-internet-number-registry-system/ > Shalom, --sb. -- -- Best Regards ! __ baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]| Subscribe to Mailing List: __ #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|#?Romains15?:33?Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec vous tous! ?#?Amen?!? ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement? ?Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!?(#Psaumes42:2) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul.wollner at africaoncloud.net Fri Aug 27 21:18:52 2021 From: paul.wollner at africaoncloud.net (Paul Wollner) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2021 23:18:52 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Clarifications & Clear Support to the INRS, to AfriNIC and its Regional Community In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <17b897acee4.c851c88f77669.3881064469855958500@africaoncloud.net> There are always two sides to a story. There are always two sides to a story. ?https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/2021-August/068571.html Dear John: The statements you made are very misleading. Here are some clarifications: Cloud Innovation is disputing AFRINIC?s claim that Cloud Innovation is in breach of the agreement. Cloud Innovation maintains that we are a compliant member. 1. While I make no comment regarding the justification of our resources. we have rights just like any other registrant to keep our justification material confidential. We would like to share some public data here: Cloud innovation accounts for 80% of all AFRINIC whois updates in 2021 to date and in AFRINIC whois, over 10 million (roughly 10% of all AFRINIC space) IP addresses whois information has not been updated in more than 10 years. 40million (roughly 40%) IP addresses have not been updated in more than 5 years. Have all of them been required to provide re-justification while they don?t bother to update whois? 313 out of 1800 members have not made a single assignment in their allocations more than a year after receiving. 641 member registered show less than 50% utilization, while AFRINIC?s CPM 5.5.1.9 requires at least 50% utilization. All of those member are in violation, including several major telecoms. However according to one press we saw, AFRINIC only audited 15 member and terminated 5 of them, Cloud Innovation being the most compliant member in terms of whois update and utilization data provided to AFRINIC as data shows above. 2. I did go to ARIN for resource, ARIN requested customer personal information down to street names, personal address, all of which we do not collect in our business from end users due to data privacy concerns. I have mentioned in one of ARIN?s meeting and received a consistent answer that it must be provided before the resources can be allocated. While I later understood it is part of ARIN policy, I still believe that it is an unwise policy which puts ARIN in possession of a large collection of personally identifying information (PII). So abandoning our ARIN application for resources after RIPE ran out, was a legitimate business decision and IMHO, a morally correct one made in order to protect the privacy of our customer?s. John's statement is misleading at best. John himself has repeatedly stated that ARIN does not deny requests, but that applicant?s often abandon requests when they are unwilling or unable to provide the requested data. That?s exactly what happened here. Contrary to John?s claim, that ARIN refused the application in question, the actual facts of the matter are that Outside Heaven chose to abandon its request rather than compromise the confidentiality of its customers and trust ARIN with such a significant amount of customer PII. 4. Cloud Innovation's utilization is global, roughly 30% Asia and 30% US, with rest equally spread throughout Europe, AFRICA, and Latin America. There is nothing in AFRINIC policy manual which restricts usage of resource anywhere. And it is also common practice of several large US firms to use ARIN space either globally or across multiple regions at least. 5. Unless ARIN admits it has been given the justification submitted to AFRINIC by Cloud Innovation in past years, we don't think it is within ARIN?s mandate to comment whether it is being used for the same purpose or not. John, please clarify, have you received the justification material we submitted to AFRINIC? Do you have any inside knowledge about it? We would be very keen to know if AFRINIC has disclosed our private data to a third party in this process in violation of the very agreement they (unjustly) accuse us of breaching. 6. We find your discussion of the RIR stability fund most interesting? Please correct us if we misunderstand, but our understanding is that the fund requires the unanimous consent of all 5 RIR CEOs in order to be utilized. As such, it appears you are attempting to mislead the community by making a 20% promise as if it were a 100% assurance. For the above reasons, we think that Mr. Curran has not provided a balanced or fully accurate representation of the facts to the ARIN community here and we hope that the above clarification will help members of the community come to a more fully informed opinion. Finally, while we realize that this is inappropriate for PPML, as it does not really touch on any ARIN policy discussion, we believe that Mr. Curran?s post could not be allowed to stand without rebuttal. Since he chose to make such a non-policy post to PPML, we felt that our posting of the rebuttal here was justified. Unless Mr. Curran or other ARIN staff member(s) choose to further engage on this topic here, this will be our only post on the matter to this list. We would also welcome the opportunity to take the discussion to a more appropriate ARIN list if Mr. Curran prefers that alternative. On Fri, 27 Aug 2021 at 21:55, John Curran wrote: > > ARIN Community - > > In response to questions about the dispute in the AFRINIC region, please refer to the following article (link and text attached below ? > > > > FYI, > /John > > John Curran > President and CEO > American Registry for Internet Numbers > > === > > August 27, 2021 > > AFRINIC And The Stability Of The Internet Number Registry System > > By John Curran - President and CEO, American Registry for Internet Numbers, Ltd. (ARIN) > > As many in the community are aware, the Regional Internet Registry (RIR) that serves Africa (AFRINIC) has been involved in litigation with a company known as ?Cloud Innovation? operating out of the Seychelles and under control of an individual named Lu Heng (who resides primarily in Hong Kong.) Disputes between RIRs and their customers do occur from time to time, and it is best that such disputes are resolved within that RIR, its community, and/or the applicable legal and courts system if necessary. > > ARIN does not normally comment on disputes or related litigation occurring at another RIR, but this matter has become quite different, as it is both highly public and has potential for significant impact to the overall stability of the Internet number registry system and thus to ARIN and its community. Therefore, I address the ARIN community to provide insight into the nature of the dispute, to highlight some troublesome aspects of the ongoing litigation, and finally to reiterate ARIN?s unwavering support to AFRINIC and the African networking community. > > The Dispute and Litigation > > In 2020, AFRINIC completed a registry audit to confirm that number resources were properly reflected in the registry; and as a result, determined that it required additional information from Cloud Innovation regarding its utilization of previously issued Internet number resources. This sort of resource review is not uncommon among the RIRs, and ARIN has its own resource review process that is similar in nature. Upon reviewing the information provided by Cloud Innovation, AFRINIC determined that the resources were not being utilized for the purposes for which they were issued and noted that they would be revoked (after a suitable time to allow customer migration off those resources.) Mr. Lu and his businesses disputed AFRINIC?s authority to enforce this provision of its customer agreement and instead engaged in several legal actions in the courts in Mauritius to prevent having to return the address blocks to AFRINIC. > > As noted earlier, normally disputes are routine in nature and are generally best resolved by the individual RIR, its community, and/or the applicable legal & courts system. However, among the motions that Cloud Innovation has made is one that currently freezes AFRINIC?s accounts and thus has the potential to hamper AFRINIC?s operations and ability to serve both the community in Africa as well as the global community that relies upon the Internet number registry system. ARIN takes stability of the Internet number registry system very seriously; and considering this risk, we are compelled to provide this update to the ARIN community as it needs to be aware of these developments and potential implications. I must also share some of ARIN?s knowledge related to this matter as it informs and directs our stance going forward. > > Prior Dealings with ARIN > > ARIN has first-hand experience and insight into Mr. Lu?s business practices in seeking IP number resources. Mr. Lu, through Cloud Innovation, Ltd., received 6.2 million IPv4 addresses from AFRINIC in four different installments[1]; however, it is worth noting that in 2013,Mr. Lu, through his company Outside Heaven, Ltd., also approached and sought over one million IPv4 addresses from ARIN. ARIN ultimately refused to provide any resources to him and his business for two main reasons: First, during the review of his application to justify the provision of Internet number resources, Mr. Lu refused to provide ARIN with information that was repeatedly requested on a number of occasions; and second, the information provided by Mr. Lu was misleading and inconsistent. In addition, Mr. Lu had no meaningful business establishment in the ARIN region; and based on his own representations, it was clear the intended use of the IPv4 addresses?if they were issued?was for business activities outside the ARIN service region. Given the seriousness of potentially false statements made to ARIN to obtain number resources, ARIN attempted to engage in appropriate due diligence with which Mr. Lu was unwilling to cooperate. ARIN refused his application for IPv4 number resources. > > Use of the AFRINIC Resources Out of Africa > > ARIN has reviewed the utilization of the number resource blocks issued by AFRINIC to Cloud Innovation and determined that the overwhelming majority of the approximately 6.2 million IP addresses issued have not been used within the African continent. While there are cases of entire address blocks being routed from an ISP in South Africa, Cloud Innovation also has announced more specific routes from ISPs in Hong Kong and the United States. Because more specific announcements take routing precedence, this rendered the routing announcement at the South African ISP moot and resulted in the vast majority of the traffic usage being outside of Africa. Such a result is not surprising as Cloud Innovation has indicated that they predominantly ?lease? the IP address space to other parties rather than utilize it to provide connectivity services directly. > > It is apparent that Cloud Innovation?s use of the issued number resources is not being used for the purpose for which they were issued; and as such, it appears that AFRINIC is within its rights per the registration services agreement to reclaim them so that they may be used for the benefit of the African community. This is among the issues that will need to be considered by the Mauritian court, as well as whether there was fraud in the inception of the contractual process when the resources were issued. Because AFRINIC is directly involved in the litigation, it has quite properly limited its public comments on the ongoing litigation with Mr. Lu and his companies. However, Mr. Lu, and parties related to Mr. Lu, have not limited their actions to the courts and have maintained a steady stream of confusing and inconsistent misinformation to the public that apparently distorts the issues to cast AFRINIC in a most unfavorable light. Neither the AFRINIC nor the ARIN communities should expect a quick answer from the courts, but it will ultimately yield a ruling. In the interim, as procedural motions are being sorted out, the community should not make judgements about the court proceeding until the substantive issues are addressed. > > Joint RIR Stability Fund > > The RIRs have committed to mutual assistance, in kind and financial, to ensure operational continuity of the Internet number registry system; and in 2015, the RIRs established a Joint RIR Stability Fund as a prudent contingency measure towards long-term Internet number registry stability. The Fund has been established through voluntary pledges of funds from individual RIRs? reserves, and upon an RIR?s duly submitted request for support from the Stability Fund, the funds may be made available to support that RIR?s registry and policy development activities. There is in excess of $2M USD of financial support collectively pledged from the RIRs for this purpose; and in addition, support can also be provided in-kind (e.g., through operational staff for support of operational activities if needed.) > > If AFRINIC requests support in accordance with the Joint RIR Stability Fund, ARIN will support such a request. Furthermore, and without reservation, ARIN stands by its unwavering commitment to support AFRINIC and will take any and all measures necessary to ensure that neither the African networking community, nor the global Internet number registry system, is operationally impacted during this period. AFRINIC was formed (and has accomplished so much) for the benefit of the African networking community and ARIN stands with the community in dealing with those who seek to disrupt or exploit it for their own benefit. > > [1] > > 154.80.0.0/12 (Issued 07/24/2013) > > 45.192.0.0/12 (Issued 12/1/2014) > > 156.224.0.0/11 (Issued 12/22/2015) > > 154.192.0.0/11 (Issued 09/16/2016) > > === > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-PPML > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List (https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml > Please contact https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml if you experience any issues. ---- On Fri, 27 Aug 2021 21:31:10 +0200 Sylvain Baya wrote ---- Dear AfriNIC's Community,? Hope this email finds you in good health... ...i'm really thankful to John for his clear support? to the Internet Numbers Registry System (INRS)? aka RFC7020 [1] and to its kind words and support? both to AfriNIC and its *Regional* (Internet) community. Remain blessed brother! __ [1]: ~?~ "[...] If AFRINIC requests support in accordance with? the Joint RIR Stability Fund, ARIN will support? such a request.? Furthermore, and without? reservation, ARIN stands by its unwavering? commitment to support AFRINIC and will take any? and all measures necessary to ensure that neither? the African networking community, nor the global? Internet number registry system, is operationally? impacted during this period. AFRINIC was formed? (and has accomplished so much) for the benefit of? the African networking community and ARIN? stands with the community in dealing with those? who seek to disrupt or exploit it for their own benefit. [...]" ~?~ ...icymi, please read the full blog post here [2]. __ [2]: Shalom,? --sb. -- --Best Regards ! __ baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]| Subscribe to Mailing List: __ #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|#?Romains15?:33?Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec vous tous! ?#?Amen?!? ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement? ?Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!?(#Psaumes42:2) _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jcurran at arin.net Fri Aug 27 21:49:28 2021 From: jcurran at arin.net (John Curran) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2021 21:49:28 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Clarifications & Clear Support to the INRS, to AfriNIC and its Regional Community In-Reply-To: <17b897acee4.c851c88f77669.3881064469855958500@africaoncloud.net> References: <17b897acee4.c851c88f77669.3881064469855958500@africaoncloud.net> Message-ID: <603B8AFE-3978-46A6-8F85-D48A649A0908@arin.net> On 27 Aug 2021, at 5:18 PM, Paul Wollner > wrote: There are always two sides to a story. There are always two sides to a story. https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/2021-August/068571.html Dear John: The statements you made are very misleading. Here are some clarifications: ... Paul - Two sides Indeed. I?ll spare the AFRINIC community from sharing entire discussion that just went down in the nanog and arin-ppml mailing lists ? one can always review the referenced email archive if interested. In short, Mr. Lu and I engaged on some points of discussion regarding my recent ARIN blog post Upon review, I find no errors in the original article and reiterate ? Furthermore, and without reservation, ARIN stands by its unwavering commitment to support AFRINIC and will take any and all measures necessary to ensure that neither the African networking community, nor the global Internet number registry system, is operationally impacted during this period. AFRINIC was formed (and has accomplished so much) for the benefit of the African networking community and ARIN stands with the community in dealing with those who seek to disrupt or exploit it for their own benefit. Suffice to say that I also took the opportunity to pose to Mr. Lu the question of its AFRINIC number resources and whether Cloud Innovation?s use of the blocks in question is within the remit and purpose for which they were originally justified but he indicated that "it is potentially part of ongoing litigation process that we are not able to comment publicly.? One would hope that such a simple matter of fact would be quite simple to provide to the community, but apparently that is not the case. Best wishes, /John John Curran President and CEO American Registry for Internet Numbers -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Sat Aug 28 01:10:19 2021 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2021 04:10:19 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Clarifications & Clear Support to the INRS, to AfriNIC and its Regional Community In-Reply-To: <17b897acee4.c851c88f77669.3881064469855958500@africaoncloud.net> References: <17b897acee4.c851c88f77669.3881064469855958500@africaoncloud.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Aug 2021, 00:25 Paul Wollner, wrote: > There are always two sides to a story. > > And there is another side of the story that dates as back as 2014 below. /start [rpd] [afnog] A typical case of abuse of our resources!!!*Lu Heng* h.lu at anytimechinese.com *Sat Sep 20 00:37:13 UTC 2014* - Previous message: [rpd] Re: [afnog] A typical case of abuse of our resources!!! - Next message: [rpd] [afnog] A typical case of abuse of our resources!!! - *Messages sorted by:* [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] ------------------------------ Hi because our range has been mentioned since beginning of the discussion, let me make things clear once for all: 1. the resource we take are using in africa. 2. we are investing in africa. If anyone want to make more accusation on us please do provide evidence otherwise we see it as public defamation. end/ Cheers, Noah FWIW, the above was extracted from below mailing list archive https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2014/004161.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dabu.sifiso at yandex.com Mon Aug 30 15:02:50 2021 From: dabu.sifiso at yandex.com (Dabu Sifiso) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2021 10:02:50 -0500 Subject: [Community-Discuss] USE of (ARIN, RIPE, APNIC) ADDRESS SPACE IN AFRICA In-Reply-To: <27750.1629754371@segfault.tristatelogic.com> References: <27750.1629754371@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: <2194821630335166@iva4-0814df7d67c8.qloud-c.yandex.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rfg at tristatelogic.com Mon Aug 30 17:02:14 2021 From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2021 10:02:14 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] USE of (ARIN, RIPE, APNIC) ADDRESS SPACE IN AFRICA In-Reply-To: <2194821630335166@iva4-0814df7d67c8.qloud-c.yandex.net> Message-ID: <58521.1630342934@segfault.tristatelogic.com> In message <2194821630335166 at iva4-0814df7d67c8.qloud-c.yandex.net>, Dabu Sifiso wrote: > Don't forget about the $80 million (USD) claim that Cloud Innovation has > also and separately filed against Board Chairman, Subramanian Moonesamy, > and against CEO Eddy Kayihura in their personal capacities. > > >What? >When did that happen? >80 million each? I do not have the answers to these questions. You will have to ask either Subramanian Moonesamy or Eddy. Regards, rfg From abscoco at gmail.com Mon Aug 30 19:11:08 2021 From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain Baya) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2021 20:11:08 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] USE of (ARIN, RIPE, APNIC) ADDRESS SPACE IN AFRICA In-Reply-To: <58521.1630342934@segfault.tristatelogic.com> References: <2194821630335166@iva4-0814df7d67c8.qloud-c.yandex.net> <58521.1630342934@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Message-ID: Dear AfriNIC's Community, Hope you are in good health! Le lun. 30 ao?t 2021 ? 6:03 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette a ?crit : > In message <2194821630335166 at iva4-0814df7d67c8.qloud-c.yandex.net>, > Dabu Sifiso wrote: > > > Don't forget about the $80 million (USD) claim that Cloud Innovation > has > > also and separately filed against Board Chairman, Subramanian > Moonesamy, > > and against CEO Eddy Kayihura in their personal capacities. > > > > > >What? > >When did that happen? > >80 million each? > > I do not have the answers to these questions. You will have to ask either > Subramanian Moonesamy or Eddy. > > > ...or simply the one who sued them. Btw, please Dabu, see the full list of cases filed here [1]. __ [1]: Shalom, --sb. > Regards, > rfg > > [...] -- -- Best Regards ! __ baya.sylvain[AT cmNOG DOT cm]| Subscribe to Mailing List: __ #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|#?Romains15?:33?Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec vous tous! ?#?Amen?!? ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement? ?Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!?(#Psaumes42:2) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: