From sm+af at afrinic.net Wed May 1 04:18:32 2019 From: sm+af at afrinic.net (S. Moonesamy) Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 21:18:32 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Internet shutdown in Africa In-Reply-To: <808ff273-4972-b401-06a6-00e2eeb46379@lasentinelle.mu> References: <3b54256d-950c-0e8f-476b-dd100615ec7f@forum.org.ng> <0e3906be-9f31-7a72-4ef5-f9e9a0b17b48@forum.org.ng> <808ff273-4972-b401-06a6-00e2eeb46379@lasentinelle.mu> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20190430193007.0f112730@elandnews.com> Dear Ish, At 01:01 PM 30-04-2019, Ish Sookun wrote: >It would be ideal if a discussion could start here and reach people with >decision-making mandates. At the moment, I do not see anything within >AFRINIC that could take things beyond the mailing list, except the will >of people. Once in a while I attend events where there are discussions about topics which may be of interest to Resource Members or the community. The last event was about cybersecurity. There was a question from a representative of the World Bank about Information Technology governance in companies. From what I recall, I gave a short response. A well-established company would assess the risks of connectivity issues if it relies on Internet-related services for its day-to-day operations. In general, "Internet shutdowns" are about social network shutdowns. That could fit under the topic of digital rights [1]. In my opinion, digital rights are not directly related to what Afrinic Ltd does. I did not understand the following: "take things beyond the mailing list". Is it about Afrinic Ltd talking with government agencies about, for example, digital rights? Regards, S. Moonesamy 1. Droits num?riques From ish.sookun at lasentinelle.mu Wed May 1 06:54:04 2019 From: ish.sookun at lasentinelle.mu (Ish Sookun) Date: Wed, 1 May 2019 10:54:04 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Internet shutdown in Africa In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20190430193007.0f112730@elandnews.com> References: <3b54256d-950c-0e8f-476b-dd100615ec7f@forum.org.ng> <0e3906be-9f31-7a72-4ef5-f9e9a0b17b48@forum.org.ng> <808ff273-4972-b401-06a6-00e2eeb46379@lasentinelle.mu> <6.2.5.6.2.20190430193007.0f112730@elandnews.com> Message-ID: Hi SM, On 5/1/19 8:18 AM, S. Moonesamy wrote: > In general, "Internet shutdowns" are about social network shutdowns.? > That could fit under the topic of digital rights [1].? In my opinion, > digital rights are not directly related to what Afrinic Ltd does.? I did > not understand the following: "take things beyond the mailing list".? Is > it about Afrinic Ltd talking with government agencies about, for > example, digital rights? Blocking access to social networks only would be regarded as a partial internet shutdown. On the other hand a full internet shutdown would have socio-economic ramifications. Resource members will be affected. Yes, AFRINIC could facilitate talks between government agencies, local groups and other stakeholders about digital rights. Regards, Ish Sookun From muyiwacaleb at gmail.com Wed May 1 12:24:23 2019 From: muyiwacaleb at gmail.com (Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele) Date: Wed, 1 May 2019 13:24:23 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 466, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Folks, My personal random thoughts about involving policymaker which some of us might be experiencing some of the issues raised below in our countries while being faced with reality. 1. We will never get the big guy who has the final say into the room in cases like this for engagement. Even if they attend, they will not pay attention and spend few minutes in the room given speeches laced with a political to-do list which might never be achieved. Or in some cases, they get bored and sleep off or go shopping. 2. The Associates of the big guy who finally attends and pay attention sends a report to the boss and will only just be "submitting reports" and if the report does not support the agenda of the big guy, he changes the representative who is the subordinate and policy implementation or recommendation/education is stalled. 3. The academics will also write policy briefs but it is so academic in nature that policymakers might even trash it for no reason and see it as academic excercise. Until the academia starts putting these publications in simple executive summary of one or two pages with illustrations, the big guy is so busy trying to run a country. 4. Digital Right advocates will tweet and tag the policymakers but he is not the one managing the account and the social media account manager might not report back the bad news to the big guy in government house. 5. At the level of UN and AU, conventions and proclamations will be declared but countries will not sign for fears unknown to the world. Perhaps, the countries that do not sign are using digital suppression as a tool for electoral control and victory. At the end of the day, it is a bad political system and if you look at most countries CyberSecurity Laws, there is always a clause that gives the state actors powers under the guise of "NATIONAL SECURITY" and we need to address the issues from within and outside the continent by getting good political leaders to champion the case for an open, free and resilient internet which will benefit our digital economy. However, Africans problems are best solved by Africans Caleb Ogundele On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 1:00 PM wrote: > Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to > community-discuss at afrinic.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > community-discuss-request at afrinic.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > community-discuss-owner at afrinic.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. AFRINIC Board of Directors Announces Departure of AFRINIC CEO > (AFRINIC Communication) > 2. Re: Internet shutdown in Africa (Ish Sookun) > 3. Re: Internet shutdown in Africa (Ish Sookun) > 4. Re: Internet shutdown in Africa (Dewole Ajao) > 5. Re: Internet shutdown in Africa (ABDULKARIM AYOPO OLOYEDE) > 6. Re: Internet shutdown in Africa (Ish Sookun) > 7. Re: Internet shutdown in Africa (Ish Sookun) > 8. Re: Internet shutdown in Africa (ABDULKARIM AYOPO OLOYEDE) > 9. Re: Internet shutdown in Africa (Ish Sookun) > 10. Re: Internet shutdown in Africa (Dewole Ajao) > 11. Re: Internet shutdown in Africa (Ish Sookun) > 12. Re: Internet shutdown in Africa (Dewole Ajao) > 13. Re: Internet shutdown in Africa (Noah) > 14. Re?:Re: Internet shutdown in Africa (Yazid AKANHO) > 15. Re: Internet shutdown in Africa (S. Moonesamy) > 16. Re: Internet shutdown in Africa (Ish Sookun) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 17:34:56 +0400 > From: AFRINIC Communication > To: community-discuss at afrinic.net > Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Board of Directors Announces > Departure of AFRINIC CEO > Message-ID: <94C09D49-3A5E-4B79-B6FB-451B8FF8B02E at afrinic.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Ebene, Mauritius, 30 April 2019. - The AFRINIC Board of Directors would > like to announce that the Chief Executive Officer, Mr. Alan Barrett, will > be leaving AFRINIC with effect from 26th July 2019. The AFRINIC Board of > Directors sincerely thank Mr. Alan Barrett for his selfless dedication, > commitment and outstanding contribution to the global and African Internet > community. > > ?I have taken the difficult decision to leave AFRINIC, after four years as > CEO. I have been both proud to serve the African community, and humble to > realise how small my own contributions have been. Any success that AFRINIC > has enjoyed has been the result of a joint effort by many people, including > the previous CEO, our dedicated and talented staff, Board members past and > present, our vibrant community, and volunteers who serve on various > committees. > > Much work remains to be done to make Internet access affordable, open, and > available throughout Africa. I firmly believe in AFRINIC?s vision to be the > leading force in growing the Internet for Africa's sustainable development, > and I have every confidence that the Board and staff will continue to work > towards that goal,? says Mr. Alan Barrett > > Mr. Alan Barrett leaves AFRINIC in a good position for future growth and > we wish Mr. Alan Barrett the very best in his future endeavours. > > The AFRINIC Board of Directors will launch a CEO search process that will > culminate in the appointment of a new CEO as soon as possible. > > In the meantime, all measures will be taken to ensure a smooth transition > including business continuity. > > > > Best Regards, > > Christian D. Bope, PhD > Chairman, AFRINIC Board > > ?????????????. > > Ebene, Maurice, 30 avril 2019.- Le conseil d'administration d?AFRINIC > tient ? vous informer que M. Alan Barrett, directeur g?n?ral, a soumis sa > d?mission et quittera son poste ? compter du 26 juillet 2019. Le conseil > d'administration d'AFRINIC remercie sinc?rement M. Alan Barrett pour son > d?vouement, son engagement et sa contribution exceptionnelle ? notre > communaut? Internet. > > ?J'ai pris la difficile d?cision de quitter AFRINIC apr?s quatre ans en > tant que DG. J'ai ?t? ? la fois fi?re de servir humblement la communaut? > africaine et apporter mes contributions au d?veloppement de la compagnie.. > Les succ?s d'AFRINIC r?sultent des efforts conjugu?s de nombreuses > personnes, notamment l?ancien DG, notre personnel d?vou? et talentueux, les > membres du conseil d?administration pass?s et pr?sents, notre communaut? > dynamique et les b?n?voles qui si?gent ? divers comit?s. > > Il reste encore beaucoup ? faire pour rendre l'acc?s ? Internet abordable, > ouvert et disponible dans toute l'Afrique. Je crois fermement en la vision > d?AFRINIC de devenir la principale force de la croissance d?Internet pour > le d?veloppement durable de l?Afrique, et je suis confiant que le conseil > d'administration et le personnel continueront ? ?uvrer ? la r?alisation de > cet objectif. ", a d?clar? M. Alan Barrett. > > M. Alan Barrett laisse AFRINIC dans une position favorable pour la > croissance future et nous souhaitons ? M. Alan Barrett le meilleur des > succ?s dans ses projets futurs. > > Le conseil d?administration d?AFRINIC lancera un processus de recrutement > qui aboutira ? la nomination d?un nouveau DG d?s que possible. > > > Entre-temps, toutes les mesures seront prises pour assurer une transition > efficace, y compris la continuit? des activit?s d'AFRINIC. > > > Meilleures salutations, > > Christian D. Bope, PhD > Pr?sident du conseil d'administration d?AFRINIC > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 19:42:34 +0400 > From: Ish Sookun > To: ABDULKARIM AYOPO OLOYEDE > Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Internet shutdown in Africa > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hi Abdulkarim, > > On 4/29/19 5:22 PM, ABDULKARIM AYOPO OLOYEDE wrote: > > But the good thing about the current internet structure is there is > > always a back door. We need to make sure? we continue to fight to make > > the system more decentralised and indipenden to prevent cases like this.? > > I did not understand your comment about "current internet structure is > there is always a back door". Could you please clarify what you mean? > > Regards, > > Ish Sookun > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 19:47:04 +0400 > From: Ish Sookun > To: Iyedi Goma > Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Internet shutdown in Africa > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hi Serge, > > I recall from lengthy discussions when the idea of an "anti internet > shutdown policy" was tossed here, it was argued that AFRINIC might not > be the right platform to raise the issue but instead perhaps it could be > raised through the Internet Governance Forum. > > That being said, what do you think AFRINIC could do to against internet > shutdowns in Africa? > > Regards, > > Ish Sookun > > On 4/29/19 7:56 PM, Iyedi Goma wrote: > > Hello > > Yes you are really right, we need to talk about we need to find the way > > to solve such case. > > Specifically by bringing our silence? > > > > Le lun. 29 avr. 2019 ? 14:22, ABDULKARIM AYOPO OLOYEDE > > > a > ?crit?: > > > > Hi, > > It is really a shame. I think we need to speak out more about this > > and tell them this is very wrong.? > > But the good thing about the current internet structure is there is > > always a back door. We need to make sure? we continue to fight to > > make the system more decentralised and indipenden to prevent cases > > like this.? > > Regards? > > > > Abdulkarim Oloyede PhD. > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 29 Apr 2019, 14:06 Iyedi Goma, > > wrote: > > > > > > Dear all > > > > Now Benin gov learn how to block? the internet? and the counter > > measure (VPNs and Co) > > Africa governments are always ready to learn bad habits as if > > it's a curse. > > what do you think about digital future of africa???? > > > > best regards > > > > Serge-parfait Goma > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Community-Discuss mailing list > > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Community-Discuss at afrinic.net> > > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > > > > Website ,?Weekly Bulletin > > ?UGPortal > > PGPortal > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Community-Discuss mailing list > > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 17:22:37 +0100 > From: Dewole Ajao > To: Ish Sookun , Iyedi Goma > > Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Internet shutdown in Africa > Message-ID: <3b54256d-950c-0e8f-476b-dd100615ec7f at forum.org.ng> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > Realistically, the only effective thing we can (attempt to) do is seek > out the policy makers, educate them about how an uninterrupted Internet > is really important to us, listen to their concerns, and help them > formulate policies that address their concerns without shutting down the > Internet. > > Easier said than done, yeah. Worth a try though. > > Dewole. > > On 4/30/2019 4:47 PM, Ish Sookun wrote: > > Hi Serge, > > > > I recall from lengthy discussions when the idea of an "anti internet > > shutdown policy" was tossed here, it was argued that AFRINIC might not > > be the right platform to raise the issue but instead perhaps it could be > > raised through the Internet Governance Forum. > > > > That being said, what do you think AFRINIC could do to against internet > > shutdowns in Africa? > > > > Regards, > > > > Ish Sookun > > > > On 4/29/19 7:56 PM, Iyedi Goma wrote: > >> Hello > >> Yes you are really right, we need to talk about we need to find the way > >> to solve such case. > >> Specifically by bringing our silence > >> > >> Le lun. 29 avr. 2019 ? 14:22, ABDULKARIM AYOPO OLOYEDE > >> > a > ?crit?: > >> > >> Hi, > >> It is really a shame. I think we need to speak out more about this > >> and tell them this is very wrong. > >> But the good thing about the current internet structure is there is > >> always a back door. We need to make sure? we continue to fight to > >> make the system more decentralised and indipenden to prevent cases > >> like this. > >> Regards > >> > >> Abdulkarim Oloyede PhD. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Mon, 29 Apr 2019, 14:06 Iyedi Goma, >> > wrote: > >> > >> > >> Dear all > >> > >> Now Benin gov learn how to block? the internet? and the counter > >> measure (VPNs and Co) > >> Africa governments are always ready to learn bad habits as if > >> it's a curse. > >> what do you think about digital future of africa???? > >> > >> best regards > >> > >> Serge-parfait Goma > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Community-Discuss mailing list > >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Community-Discuss at afrinic.net> > >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > >> > >> > >> Website ,?Weekly Bulletin > >> ?UGPortal > >> PGPortal > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Community-Discuss mailing list > >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Community-Discuss mailing list > > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 18:40:25 +0100 > From: ABDULKARIM AYOPO OLOYEDE > To: Dewole Ajao > Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Internet shutdown in Africa > Message-ID: > < > CAES4e9kxPV+WGDf7cJZT6_5747fzZ6uXQQyWGLEseRd5GhPxQg at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Dear Ish, > I totally agree with you that it is an internet governance issue and not > directly related to AFRINIC. However, there is a kind of interconnection > between all the players in the internet ecosystem which include AFRINIC and > I think that was the reason Serge-parfait raised it here. Just as a form of > awareness and seeking ways of moving forward. > Then my point about the "back door". > What I mean is that what we know about the internet today is a richly > interconnected network without a single killer switch. The government can > only speak to ISP's within their domain to shut down the internet within a > country but there are other ways of bypassing that because of the > interconnections. This can be bypassing local connections or even via the > intranet of companies and so on. There are ways around it but not ideal. I > mentioned that just so that we know that there is no single killer switch > in a govermnet shutdown situation. > Thanks > AK > > On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 5:23 PM Dewole Ajao wrote: > > > Realistically, the only effective thing we can (attempt to) do is seek > > out the policy makers, educate them about how an uninterrupted Internet > > is really important to us, listen to their concerns, and help them > > formulate policies that address their concerns without shutting down the > > Internet. > > > > Easier said than done, yeah. Worth a try though. > > > > Dewole. > > > > On 4/30/2019 4:47 PM, Ish Sookun wrote: > > > Hi Serge, > > > > > > I recall from lengthy discussions when the idea of an "anti internet > > > shutdown policy" was tossed here, it was argued that AFRINIC might not > > > be the right platform to raise the issue but instead perhaps it could > be > > > raised through the Internet Governance Forum. > > > > > > That being said, what do you think AFRINIC could do to against internet > > > shutdowns in Africa? > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Ish Sookun > > > > > > On 4/29/19 7:56 PM, Iyedi Goma wrote: > > >> Hello > > >> Yes you are really right, we need to talk about we need to find the > way > > >> to solve such case. > > >> Specifically by bringing our silence > > >> > > >> Le lun. 29 avr. 2019 ? 14:22, ABDULKARIM AYOPO OLOYEDE > > >> > a > > ?crit : > > >> > > >> Hi, > > >> It is really a shame. I think we need to speak out more about > this > > >> and tell them this is very wrong. > > >> But the good thing about the current internet structure is there > is > > >> always a back door. We need to make sure we continue to fight to > > >> make the system more decentralised and indipenden to prevent > cases > > >> like this. > > >> Regards > > >> > > >> Abdulkarim Oloyede PhD. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On Mon, 29 Apr 2019, 14:06 Iyedi Goma, > >> > wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> Dear all > > >> > > >> Now Benin gov learn how to block the internet and the > counter > > >> measure (VPNs and Co) > > >> Africa governments are always ready to learn bad habits as if > > >> it's a curse. > > >> what do you think about digital future of africa???? > > >> > > >> best regards > > >> > > >> Serge-parfait Goma > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Community-Discuss mailing list > > >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net> > > >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > >> > > >> > > >> Website , Weekly Bulletin > > >> UGPortal > > >> PGPortal > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Community-Discuss mailing list > > >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > > >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Community-Discuss mailing list > > > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > > > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Community-Discuss mailing list > > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > > > -- > *Dr. Abdulkarim A.Oloyede*. *B. Eng (BUK), M.Sc (York), PhD (York), R.Eng, > A+* > *Senior Lecturer, **Department of Telecommunications Science, University of > Ilorin, Nigeria* > *Vice Chairman, Telecommunications Development Advisory Group (TDAG), > **International > Telecommunication Union (ITU).* > *Alternative Emails: olouss at yahoo.com OR > aao500 at york.ac.uk * > > -- > Website ,?Weekly Bulletin > ?UGPortal > PGPortal > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20190430/fff64327/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 22:32:14 +0400 > From: Ish Sookun > To: ABDULKARIM AYOPO OLOYEDE > Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Internet shutdown in Africa > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hi Abdulkarim, > > On 4/30/19 9:40 PM, ABDULKARIM AYOPO OLOYEDE wrote: > > > > Then my point about the "back door". > > What I mean is that what we know about the internet today is a richly > > interconnected network without a single killer switch.? The government > > can only speak to ISP's within their domain to shut down the internet > > within a country but there are other ways of bypassing that because of > > the interconnections. This can be bypassing local connections or even > > via the intranet of companies and so on. There are ways around it but > > not ideal. I mentioned that just so that we know that there is no single > > killer switch in a govermnet shutdown situation.?? > > > > Thank you for the clarification. > > However, I look at it in a simple way. If I am an ordinary internet user > and my ISP cuts my internet access following a government order, then I > do not see an alternative that will allow me to access websites. For > example, if there is an internet shutdown in Mauritius I will not be > able to access www.afrinic.net. > > Regards, > > Ish Sookun > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 22:49:05 +0400 > From: Ish Sookun > To: Dewole Ajao > Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Internet shutdown in Africa > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hi Dewole, > > On 4/30/19 8:22 PM, Dewole Ajao wrote: > > Realistically, the only effective thing we can (attempt to) do is seek > > out the policy makers, educate them about how an uninterrupted Internet > > is really important to us, listen to their concerns, and help them > > formulate policies that address their concerns without shutting down the > > Internet. > > > > The ICT regulator in Mauritius has installed a National Internet > Filtering System [1] to block internet content. It can be used to block > Facebook. Should Facebook be blocked if that is a concern of policy makers? > > Regards, > > Ish Sookun > > [1] https://www.icta.mu/internet.html#int3 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 19:48:28 +0100 > From: ABDULKARIM AYOPO OLOYEDE > To: Ish Sookun > Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Internet shutdown in Africa > Message-ID: > < > CAES4e9m2oPehzFSLvg4Gg9HUhstLztMbdZ-EJceTjz4XptHOUA at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Dear Ish, > Agreed but am not refereeing to ordinary users here. I was talking about > getting desperate news out in a shutdown situation. > AK > > On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 7:31 PM Ish Sookun > wrote: > > > Hi Abdulkarim, > > > > On 4/30/19 9:40 PM, ABDULKARIM AYOPO OLOYEDE wrote: > > > > > > Then my point about the "back door". > > > What I mean is that what we know about the internet today is a richly > > > interconnected network without a single killer switch. The government > > > can only speak to ISP's within their domain to shut down the internet > > > within a country but there are other ways of bypassing that because of > > > the interconnections. This can be bypassing local connections or even > > > via the intranet of companies and so on. There are ways around it but > > > not ideal. I mentioned that just so that we know that there is no > single > > > killer switch in a govermnet shutdown situation. > > > > > > > Thank you for the clarification. > > > > However, I look at it in a simple way. If I am an ordinary internet user > > and my ISP cuts my internet access following a government order, then I > > do not see an alternative that will allow me to access websites. For > > example, if there is an internet shutdown in Mauritius I will not be > > able to access www.afrinic.net. > > > > Regards, > > > > Ish Sookun > > > > -- > Website ,?Weekly Bulletin > ?UGPortal > PGPortal > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20190430/00ac2e0a/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 22:53:40 +0400 > From: Ish Sookun > To: ABDULKARIM AYOPO OLOYEDE > Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Internet shutdown in Africa > Message-ID: <0376bb7a-1aec-172d-10aa-0f96d4f94d5d at lasentinelle.mu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hi Abdulkarim, > > On 4/30/19 10:48 PM, ABDULKARIM AYOPO OLOYEDE wrote: > > Agreed but am not refereeing to ordinary users here. I was talking about > > getting desperate news out in a shutdown situation. > > If there is a nationwide internet shutdown, how would someone use a > company intranet to get information out of the country? > > Regards, > > Ish Sookun > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 20:25:54 +0100 > From: Dewole Ajao > To: Ish Sookun > Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Internet shutdown in Africa > Message-ID: <0e3906be-9f31-7a72-4ef5-f9e9a0b17b48 at forum.org.ng> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > I wouldn't say any website should be blocked. If the policy makers have > a concern (founded or unfounded), all we can do is try to educate them > and show them better ways to deal with their concerns. Now is the time > to start that engagement (if possible) - not after they have started > blocking stuff. > > Regards, > > Dewole. > > On 4/30/2019 7:49 PM, Ish Sookun wrote: > > Hi Dewole, > > > > On 4/30/19 8:22 PM, Dewole Ajao wrote: > >> Realistically, the only effective thing we can (attempt to) do is seek > >> out the policy makers, educate them about how an uninterrupted Internet > >> is really important to us, listen to their concerns, and help them > >> formulate policies that address their concerns without shutting down the > >> Internet. > >> > > The ICT regulator in Mauritius has installed a National Internet > > Filtering System [1] to block internet content. It can be used to block > > Facebook. Should Facebook be blocked if that is a concern of policy > makers? > > > > Regards, > > > > Ish Sookun > > > > [1] https://www.icta.mu/internet.html#int3 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Wed, 1 May 2019 00:01:04 +0400 > From: Ish Sookun > To: Dewole Ajao > Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Internet shutdown in Africa > Message-ID: <808ff273-4972-b401-06a6-00e2eeb46379 at lasentinelle.mu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hi Dewole, > > On 4/30/19 11:25 PM, Dewole Ajao wrote: > > I wouldn't say any website should be blocked. If the policy makers have > > a concern (founded or unfounded), all we can do is try to educate them > > and show them better ways to deal with their concerns. Now is the time > > to start that engagement (if possible) - not after they have started > > blocking stuff. > > I believe that fits the IGF. > > It would be ideal if a discussion could start here and reach people with > decision-making mandates. At the moment, I do not see anything within > AFRINIC that could take things beyond the mailing list, except the will > of people. > > Benin is part of the West African Internet Governance Forum (WAIGF). > There is no mention of the internet shutdown that happened in Benin at > https://www.waigf.org/news. Shouldn't the regional IGFs write in support > of internet users of Benin? > > Regards, > > Ish Sookun > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 21:20:22 +0100 > From: Dewole Ajao > To: Ish Sookun > Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Internet shutdown in Africa > Message-ID: <04f67cfd-7037-a722-0ef2-5a2b7544f3c6 at forum.org.ng> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > I was of the opinion that this was a community discussion and we were > each speaking in our capacity as (potentially) affected users - not from > an AFRINIC perspective; AFRINIC does not determine the engagement in our > countries anyway. > > You are right, though - the local Internet Governance initiative such as > Benin IGF (if it exists in a multi- stakeholder fashion) would be a good > platform for engaging with and educating the policy makers. > > Dewole. > > On 4/30/2019 9:01 PM, Ish Sookun wrote: > > Hi Dewole, > > > > On 4/30/19 11:25 PM, Dewole Ajao wrote: > >> I wouldn't say any website should be blocked. If the policy makers have > >> a concern (founded or unfounded), all we can do is try to educate them > >> and show them better ways to deal with their concerns. Now is the time > >> to start that engagement (if possible) - not after they have started > >> blocking stuff. > > I believe that fits the IGF. > > > > It would be ideal if a discussion could start here and reach people with > > decision-making mandates. At the moment, I do not see anything within > > AFRINIC that could take things beyond the mailing list, except the will > > of people. > > > > Benin is part of the West African Internet Governance Forum (WAIGF). > > There is no mention of the internet shutdown that happened in Benin at > > https://www.waigf.org/news. Shouldn't the regional IGFs write in support > > of internet users of Benin? > > > > Regards, > > > > Ish Sookun > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 23:33:28 +0300 > From: Noah > To: General Discussions of AFRINIC > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Internet shutdown in Africa > Message-ID: > < > CAEqgTWZiG0E5RxGk1r4ENJhEf-L095k48NDLtPDbGUxg3jDUCw at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Folks > > Policies and IGF are all good until political power is threatened. In such > a situation, politics will always win the day in some countries where the > administrative state see it fit to temp shut down your beloved Internet > after all its feasible in term of saving the day. > > As long as the administrative state believes it does not have the mechanism > to control how information is spread, It will definately curtain the means > of information dissamination. > > Internet shutdowns as temporaly as they have become across various > countries globally... we ought to accept that they are politically > motivated as most incubents believe that control of the political narrative > especially during national elections would be of great advantage to those > in power and they would stop at nothing to shutdown the big I. > > In some poweful countries, some part of the big I is censored and continues > to be censored. > > Its just what it is. Power vs the big I. You choose. > > Thinking out loud. > > Noah > > On Tue, 30 Apr 2019, 22:27 Dewole Ajao, wrote: > > > I wouldn't say any website should be blocked. If the policy makers have > > a concern (founded or unfounded), all we can do is try to educate them > > and show them better ways to deal with their concerns. Now is the time > > to start that engagement (if possible) - not after they have started > > blocking stuff. > > > > Regards, > > > > Dewole. > > > > On 4/30/2019 7:49 PM, Ish Sookun wrote: > > > Hi Dewole, > > > > > > On 4/30/19 8:22 PM, Dewole Ajao wrote: > > >> Realistically, the only effective thing we can (attempt to) do is seek > > >> out the policy makers, educate them about how an uninterrupted > Internet > > >> is really important to us, listen to their concerns, and help them > > >> formulate policies that address their concerns without shutting down > the > > >> Internet. > > >> > > > The ICT regulator in Mauritius has installed a National Internet > > > Filtering System [1] to block internet content. It can be used to block > > > Facebook. Should Facebook be blocked if that is a concern of policy > > makers? > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Ish Sookun > > > > > > [1] https://www.icta.mu/internet.html#int3 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Community-Discuss mailing list > > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20190430/09c3a57e/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 22:59:57 +0000 (UTC) > From: Yazid AKANHO > To: "dewole at forum.org.ng" , Ish Sookun > > Cc: "community-discuss at afrinic.net" > Subject: [Community-Discuss] Re?:Re: Internet shutdown in Africa > Message-ID: <1997862979.4222033.1556665197261 at mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Dears,?Yes Benin IGF exists as well as ISOC Benin and other organizations > like Igbanet and ABC-PN fighting to have a safe, stable, secured, available > Internet in Benin.?6 months back, the same government introduced tax on > social media and Benin Internet community (mainly composed of the > organizations i listed above) fighted a lot via #TaxePasMesMo campaign and > finally the government resigned and engaged the dialogue with the > community.It is unbelievable that just 6 months later, the same government > shutdown completely the Internet a full day. Sometime, you just ask > yourself in which language you should talk to the government so that they > understand. Any voice, any idea wyerever it comes from is welcome to build > a strategy to make them understand. > > > Envoy? depuis Yahoo?Mail pour Android > > Le mar., avr. 30, 2019 ? 21:21, Dewole Ajao a > ?crit : I was of the opinion that this was a community discussion and we > were > each speaking in our capacity as (potentially) affected users - not from > an AFRINIC perspective; AFRINIC does not determine the engagement in our > countries anyway. > > You are right, though - the local Internet Governance initiative such as > Benin IGF (if it exists in a multi- stakeholder fashion) would be a good > platform for engaging with and educating the policy makers. > Dewole. > > On 4/30/2019 9:01 PM, Ish Sookun wrote: > > Hi Dewole, > > > > On 4/30/19 11:25 PM, Dewole Ajao wrote: > >> I wouldn't say any website should be blocked. If the policy makers have > >> a concern (founded or unfounded), all we can do is try to educate them > >> and show them better ways to deal with their concerns. Now is the time > >> to start that engagement (if possible) - not after they have started > >> blocking stuff. > > I believe that fits the IGF. > > > > It would be ideal if a discussion could start here and reach people with > > decision-making mandates. At the moment, I do not see anything within > > AFRINIC that could take things beyond the mailing list, except the will > > of people. > > > > Benin is part of the West African Internet Governance Forum (WAIGF). > > There is no mention of the internet shutdown that happened in Benin at > > https://www.waigf.org/news. Shouldn't the regional IGFs write in support > > of internet users of Benin? > > > > Regards, > > > > Ish Sookun > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20190430/3aefb768/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2019 21:18:32 -0700 > From: "S. Moonesamy" > To: Ish Sookun > ,community-discuss at afrinic.net > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Internet shutdown in Africa > Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20190430193007.0f112730 at elandnews.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed > > Dear Ish, > At 01:01 PM 30-04-2019, Ish Sookun wrote: > >It would be ideal if a discussion could start here and reach people with > >decision-making mandates. At the moment, I do not see anything within > >AFRINIC that could take things beyond the mailing list, except the will > >of people. > > Once in a while I attend events where there are > discussions about topics which may be of interest > to Resource Members or the community. The last > event was about cybersecurity. There was a > question from a representative of the World Bank > about Information Technology governance in > companies. From what I recall, I gave a short > response. A well-established company would > assess the risks of connectivity issues if it > relies on Internet-related services for its day-to-day operations. > > In general, "Internet shutdowns" are about social > network shutdowns. That could fit under the > topic of digital rights [1]. In my opinion, > digital rights are not directly related to what > Afrinic Ltd does. I did not understand the > following: "take things beyond the mailing > list". Is it about Afrinic Ltd talking with > government agencies about, for example, digital rights? > > Regards, > S. Moonesamy > > 1. Droits num?riques > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 16 > Date: Wed, 1 May 2019 10:54:04 +0400 > From: Ish Sookun > To: "S. Moonesamy" , community-discuss at afrinic.net > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Internet shutdown in Africa > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hi SM, > > On 5/1/19 8:18 AM, S. Moonesamy wrote: > > In general, "Internet shutdowns" are about social network shutdowns.? > > That could fit under the topic of digital rights [1].? In my opinion, > > digital rights are not directly related to what Afrinic Ltd does.? I did > > not understand the following: "take things beyond the mailing list".? Is > > it about Afrinic Ltd talking with government agencies about, for > > example, digital rights? > > Blocking access to social networks only would be regarded as a partial > internet shutdown. On the other hand a full internet shutdown would have > socio-economic ramifications. Resource members will be affected. > > Yes, AFRINIC could facilitate talks between government agencies, local > groups and other stakeholders about digital rights. > > Regards, > > Ish Sookun > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 466, Issue 1 > ************************************************* > -- *Ogundele Olumuyiwa Caleb* *muyiwacaleb at gmail.com * *234 - 8077377378* *234 - 07030777969* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sm+af at afrinic.net Wed May 1 14:28:30 2019 From: sm+af at afrinic.net (S. Moonesamy) Date: Wed, 01 May 2019 07:28:30 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Internet shutdown in Africa Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20190501070528.0b7b1988@afrinic.net> Dear Ish, At 11:54 PM 30-04-2019, Ish Sookun wrote: >Yes, AFRINIC could facilitate talks between government agencies, local >groups and other stakeholders about digital rights. The governing documents for Afrinic Ltd do not mention promotion of digital rights. In my opinion, it is better if Afrinic Ltd is not involved in digital rights issues; there are local organizations which would have a better understanding of the digital rights issues in a particular country. Regards, S. Moonesamy From iyedigoma at gmail.com Thu May 2 15:14:28 2019 From: iyedigoma at gmail.com (Iyedi Goma) Date: Thu, 2 May 2019 16:14:28 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Internet shutdown in Africa In-Reply-To: References: <3b54256d-950c-0e8f-476b-dd100615ec7f@forum.org.ng> <0e3906be-9f31-7a72-4ef5-f9e9a0b17b48@forum.org.ng> Message-ID: tks Noah for your great and realistic analyze, but we need to think about and open discussion to seek for solution, we know that AFRINIC LTD may not be the solution of our problem, but AFRINIC community is concern on this issue. what can we do Le mar. 30 avr. 2019 ? 21:34, Noah a ?crit : > Folks > > Policies and IGF are all good until political power is threatened. In such > a situation, politics will always win the day in some countries where the > administrative state see it fit to temp shut down your beloved Internet > after all its feasible in term of saving the day. > > As long as the administrative state believes it does not have the > mechanism to control how information is spread, It will definately curtain > the means of information dissamination. > > Internet shutdowns as temporaly as they have become across various > countries globally... we ought to accept that they are politically > motivated as most incubents believe that control of the political narrative > especially during national elections would be of great advantage to those > in power and they would stop at nothing to shutdown the big I. > > In some poweful countries, some part of the big I is censored and > continues to be censored. > > Its just what it is. Power vs the big I. You choose. > > Thinking out loud. > > Noah > > On Tue, 30 Apr 2019, 22:27 Dewole Ajao, wrote: > >> I wouldn't say any website should be blocked. If the policy makers have >> a concern (founded or unfounded), all we can do is try to educate them >> and show them better ways to deal with their concerns. Now is the time >> to start that engagement (if possible) - not after they have started >> blocking stuff. >> >> Regards, >> >> Dewole. >> >> On 4/30/2019 7:49 PM, Ish Sookun wrote: >> > Hi Dewole, >> > >> > On 4/30/19 8:22 PM, Dewole Ajao wrote: >> >> Realistically, the only effective thing we can (attempt to) do is seek >> >> out the policy makers, educate them about how an uninterrupted Internet >> >> is really important to us, listen to their concerns, and help them >> >> formulate policies that address their concerns without shutting down >> the >> >> Internet. >> >> >> > The ICT regulator in Mauritius has installed a National Internet >> > Filtering System [1] to block internet content. It can be used to block >> > Facebook. Should Facebook be blocked if that is a concern of policy >> makers? >> > >> > Regards, >> > >> > Ish Sookun >> > >> > [1] https://www.icta.mu/internet.html#int3 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From iyedigoma at gmail.com Thu May 2 15:41:53 2019 From: iyedigoma at gmail.com (Iyedi Goma) Date: Thu, 2 May 2019 16:41:53 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Internet shutdown in Africa In-Reply-To: <808ff273-4972-b401-06a6-00e2eeb46379@lasentinelle.mu> References: <3b54256d-950c-0e8f-476b-dd100615ec7f@forum.org.ng> <0e3906be-9f31-7a72-4ef5-f9e9a0b17b48@forum.org.ng> <808ff273-4972-b401-06a6-00e2eeb46379@lasentinelle.mu> Message-ID: hello sookun , Dewole, SM i like your point of view, but we need to put every thing in the context My question is: what is the influence or notoriety of local IGF initiative ,MAG ? or WAIGF? i know that most of you as been involve in IGF process in they country or sub-region, what is the level of influence to the government ? let me answer nothing IGF initiative is not so strong to constraint any government , in 2016 i was in AFRICAN IGF we make a nice and strong statement again Internet Shutdown , what as been the result nothing This is not an easy matter we can not suggest to the local IGF MAG to solve this case alone, it will not work we may need to raise all the ecosystem to be involve (AFRINIC, IGF, AFNOC,AU,A ITU, AF***, ISOC, ICANN .....) to be tougher as one, this may work. one organization can not face, and solve this issue best regards Le mar. 30 avr. 2019 ? 21:01, Ish Sookun a ?crit : > Hi Dewole, > > On 4/30/19 11:25 PM, Dewole Ajao wrote: > > I wouldn't say any website should be blocked. If the policy makers have > > a concern (founded or unfounded), all we can do is try to educate them > > and show them better ways to deal with their concerns. Now is the time > > to start that engagement (if possible) - not after they have started > > blocking stuff. > > I believe that fits the IGF. > > It would be ideal if a discussion could start here and reach people with > decision-making mandates. At the moment, I do not see anything within > AFRINIC that could take things beyond the mailing list, except the will > of people. > > Benin is part of the West African Internet Governance Forum (WAIGF). > There is no mention of the internet shutdown that happened in Benin at > https://www.waigf.org/news. Shouldn't the regional IGFs write in support > of internet users of Benin? > > Regards, > > Ish Sookun > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sm+af at afrinic.net Thu May 2 21:27:25 2019 From: sm+af at afrinic.net (S. Moonesamy) Date: Thu, 02 May 2019 14:27:25 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Internet shutdown in Africa In-Reply-To: References: <3b54256d-950c-0e8f-476b-dd100615ec7f@forum.org.ng> <0e3906be-9f31-7a72-4ef5-f9e9a0b17b48@forum.org.ng> <808ff273-4972-b401-06a6-00e2eeb46379@lasentinelle.mu> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20190502121546.0bf2ea18@elandnews.com> Dear Serge, At 08:41 AM 02-05-2019, Iyedi Goma wrote: >This is not an easy matter we can not suggest to the local IGF MAG >to solve this case alone, it will not work >we may need to raise all the ecosystem to be involve (AFRINIC, IGF, >AFNOC,AU,A ITU, Afrinic Ltd allocated funds for community support. That is used for sponsoring activities, e.g. local Internet Governance, network operators group. This is because it is aware that local communities may need money to cover some of the expenses incurred for their activities. Regards, S. Moonesamy From portia.rabonda at safnog.net Mon May 13 11:41:11 2019 From: portia.rabonda at safnog.net (Portia Rabonda) Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 11:41:11 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] SAFNOG-5 & iWeek 2019 Registrations Open In-Reply-To: <1557747539961.52972@safnog.net> References: <1557744748394.45708@safnog.net>, <1557745449555.58508@safnog.net>, <1557745613169.61365@safnog.net>, <1557745829160.38877@safnog.net>, <1557747539961.52972@safnog.net> Message-ID: <1557747671110.98735@safnog.net> ????Greetings All, It gives us great pleasure to announce that the SAFNOG-5 & iWeek 2019 event registration is now open! SAFNOG, in collaboration with iWeek, is proud to announce that this year's event registration is free of charge. SAFNOG-5 and iWeek 2019 will be held between the 26th- 28th August, 2019, in Johannesburg, South Africa. SAFNOG-5 seats are limited to 120 people, to reserve your spot, register through our website: http://safnog.org/?. Please take note to select "SAFNOG-5" as the main event of attendance to secure your free seat. Information about the event programme, the venue, travel information and other important updates will be made available on http://safnog.org/ in due time. We are officially 105 days from the big showdown in Jozi! We look forward to seeing you there! Regards, Portia Rabonda on Behalf of SAFNOG MC -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christianbope at gmail.com Sat May 18 06:04:38 2019 From: christianbope at gmail.com (Bope Domilongo Christian) Date: Sat, 18 May 2019 08:04:38 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC CEO Recrutment process Message-ID: Dear AFRINIC Members and community, The AFRINIC Board has decided on a process of the recruitment of AFRINIC new CEO as follows: The Board?s Remuneration Committee (REMCO, https://afrinic.net/board/committees#remunaration) shall act as a CEO Search Committee, with the following working methods: - An external ind?pendant firm shall be engaged to perform the recruitment. - The REMCO shall draw up a timeline and terms of reference, and shall forward it to the Board for approval; - The Board shall approve the terms of reference within 48 hours after receiving REMCO?s recommendation. - The REMCO shall forward a final report from the external ind?pendant firm to the Board for the Board?s final decision. - The REMCO shall recommend at least the top three candidates. The Board shall make its decision about the appointment within no more than 7 days. The Board adopted the following timeline: *CEO RECRUITMENT TIMELINE* The following are key deliverables and timelines of the CEO recruitment process: (1) Finalization of Terms of Reference (TOR) to engage a recruitment/search agency (20 May 2019). (2) Engagement of search agency (4 June 2019). (3) Finalization of desired CEO criteria (10 June 2019). (4) Advertisement for the vacancy (17 June 2019). Deadline for submission of applications 19 July 2019. All applications will go through the uniform process. (5) Final shortlist of candidates for interview (26 July 2019) (6) Interview of shortlisted candidates (2 ? 4 August 2019) (8) Recommendation of top 3 candidates to the Board (9 August 2019) (9) Board approval of selected candidate (16 August 2019) (10) Submission of offer of employment to the selected candidate (23 August 2019) (11) Acceptance or non-acceptance of appointment by the selected candidate (30 August 2019) (12) New CEO announcement (6 September 2019) (13) New CEO takes office (no later than 1 December 2019) Best Regards, Christian D. Bope, PhD Chairman, AFRINIC Board +243827154473 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kasender27 at gmail.com Mon May 20 12:28:43 2019 From: kasender27 at gmail.com (Remy Kasende) Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 13:28:43 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 470, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, Christian Bope, Good news, Thank you R?my Kassende-kazadi. Senior IT Network-support and Telecom's Infrastructures. kinshasa DRC. Le sam. 18 mai 2019 ? 13:00, a ?crit : > Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to > community-discuss at afrinic.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > community-discuss-request at afrinic.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > community-discuss-owner at afrinic.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. AFRINIC CEO Recrutment process (Bope Domilongo Christian) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sat, 18 May 2019 08:04:38 +0200 > From: Bope Domilongo Christian > To: General Discussions of AFRINIC > Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC CEO Recrutment process > Message-ID: > KMSJJsSq9B5gqg at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Dear AFRINIC Members and community, > > The AFRINIC Board has decided on a process of the recruitment of AFRINIC > new CEO as follows: > > The Board?s Remuneration Committee (REMCO, > https://afrinic.net/board/committees#remunaration) shall act as a CEO > Search Committee, with the following working methods: > > - An external ind?pendant firm shall be engaged to perform the recruitment. > > - The REMCO shall draw up a timeline and terms of reference, and shall > forward it to the Board for approval; > > - The Board shall approve the terms of reference within 48 hours after > receiving REMCO?s recommendation. > > - The REMCO shall forward a final report from the external ind?pendant firm > to the Board for the Board?s final decision. > > - The REMCO shall recommend at least the top three candidates. > > The Board shall make its decision about the appointment within no more than > 7 days. > > The Board adopted the following timeline: > > *CEO RECRUITMENT TIMELINE* > > The following are key deliverables and timelines of the CEO recruitment > process: > > (1) Finalization of Terms of Reference (TOR) to engage a recruitment/search > agency (20 May 2019). > > (2) Engagement of search agency (4 June 2019). > > (3) Finalization of desired CEO criteria (10 June 2019). > > (4) Advertisement for the vacancy (17 June 2019). Deadline for submission > of applications 19 July 2019. All applications will go through the uniform > process. > > (5) Final shortlist of candidates for interview (26 July 2019) > > (6) Interview of shortlisted candidates (2 ? 4 August 2019) > > (8) Recommendation of top 3 candidates to the Board (9 August 2019) > > (9) Board approval of selected candidate (16 August 2019) > > (10) Submission of offer of employment to the selected candidate (23 August > 2019) > > (11) Acceptance or non-acceptance of appointment by the selected candidate > (30 August 2019) > > (12) New CEO announcement (6 September 2019) > > (13) New CEO takes office (no later than 1 December 2019) > > > > Best Regards, > > Christian D. Bope, PhD > > Chairman, AFRINIC Board > > +243827154473 > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20190518/78476667/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 470, Issue 1 > ************************************************* > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spg at osc.cg Mon May 20 20:07:45 2019 From: spg at osc.cg (sere-parfait Goma) Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 22:07:45 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] la guerre des technologies Message-ID: <741f1c2bcc4d9e94cd3ca9fe33508a97@osc.cg> Bonjour ? tous Nous avons suivi, cette actualit? sur l interdiction du gouvernement des US sur la vente de la technologie am?ricaine aux entreprises chinoise, et ? eu pour cons?quence, la suspension de google de son produit android ? huawei et les firmes des processeurs et microcontr?leur Intel et autre ... Nous sommes dans une situation suffisamment in?dite, qui demande une certaine r?flexion, et peut bien une analyse commune. cette situation permet de voir visiblement que nous sommes dans un monde bipolaire ou chacun essai de faire montre de son dicta soit via une collecte des donn?es qui s'impose par la taille du march? au quel il a acc?s et un autre qui s impose par la force des produits et de la qualit? de ces contenus que il dispose bien, chacun essaie d une mani?re ou d une autre prouver sa supr?matie par les moyens dont t- il dispose. Quel est le danger derri?re cet affrontement ? Cela aurait des impacts profonds et ?tendus, et alimenterait davantage ce qui se passe d?j? - un ordre num?rique mondial bipolaire, un autour des entreprises am?ricaines et un autre autour des Chinois. Cela pourrait ?tre pire que la guerre froide car, les verrous num?riques et d?intelligence artificielle sont beaucoup plus profonds que ceux de "l??ge de l?analogique / de la m?canique" - En outre, l?ouverture de l?espace num?rique se r?tr?cit, de sorte que la d?cision num?rique de tout pays / ?conomie deviendrait de plus en plus tributaire du fait de s?enfermer dans un p?le ou dans l autre. Depuis les puces et le mat?riel informatique jusqu'aux op?rateurs de donn?es qui contr?lent divers secteurs, le choix continuera de s??triquer, car demain le choix de l ?quipementier ne d?pendras plus seulement de la performance technologique, mais aussi et surtout du type de rapports que l on entretien avec le gouvernement du pays. - l Afrique ?tant un continue ou plus 60% de ses contenus, infrastructures (DNS) et des ses donn?es sont h?berger ailleurs sous une autres l?gislations ou juridiction; nous montre aujourd'hui l urgence d une r?flexion commune sur notre ind?pendance et la r?silience NUMERIQUE je ne pr?che pas la balkanisation de l internet ou l id?e de briser l ouverture de l internet, mais force est de constater que nous avons un devoir important face ? l histoire cela de rester Ind?pendant. Cordialement Serge-Parfait Goma From funga.roho at yandex.com Tue May 21 12:15:35 2019 From: funga.roho at yandex.com (Kangamutima zabika Christophe) Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 13:15:35 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 471, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2413111558440935@iva6-62cf6ab2a3cd.qloud-c.yandex.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From funga.roho at yandex.com Wed May 22 13:04:08 2019 From: funga.roho at yandex.com (Kangamutima zabika Christophe) Date: Wed, 22 May 2019 14:04:08 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 472, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9545981558530248@iva6-628714d786b2.qloud-c.yandex.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From spg at osc.cg Thu May 23 09:20:54 2019 From: spg at osc.cg (serge-parfait Goma) Date: Thu, 23 May 2019 11:20:54 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] la guerre des technologies In-Reply-To: References: <741f1c2bcc4d9e94cd3ca9fe33508a97@osc.cg> Message-ID: <7323da964f78c594da295272261eb3ca@osc.cg> Salut ? tous merci pour vos retour et la pertinence dans les analyses faites, oui nous sommes dans une bipolarit? de pouvoir en mati?re de technologie, en lan?ant ce sujet je souhaiterais que l'on garde en t?te deux observations: 1- La raison d espionnage par le fait de faire transiter le flux via les ?quipementiers et les ?tats (gouvernement) en profite pour aussi collecter les donn?es des utilisateurs, ceci est un fait qui n est pas l apanage de la chine, nous avons tous suivi les r?v?lation de Snowden sur comment le gouvernement am?ricain espionnait le monde entier par plusieurs m?thode, cela ne devrait pas justifier les mani?res du gouvernement chinois si la preuve d espionnage est v?rifier! A mon sens cela va impliquer une m?fiance globale sur les architectures cloud, sur les services centraliser etc et aussi sur les IOT qui sont globalement fond?s sur une centralisation des donn?es (les informations pr?lev?e sont acheminer dans le cloud pr?vu)c est peut ?tre l occasion de remettre les open source au c?ur des solution pour les infra, et les services Oui il y ? une n?cessite de r?-?valuer la pertinence des politique, des r?glementations sur la gestion des donn?es, la vie priv?e et leurs s?curit?, L'int?r?t de cette discussion sur cette plate forme est celui d avoir l avis des expert technique sur la question et des grands utilisateurs que nous sommes 2- Pourquoi l Afrique doit ou devrait ?tre le plus interpell? par la question parce que nous sommes un terrain d essaie de tout ce technologie et surtout nous les adoptons tr?s ou m?me trop vite c 'est sur ce point que je rejoins @Kossi Amessinou pour dire il nous faut une d?marche, une approche affin? en incluant la perceptive, nous allons peut ?tre pas anticiper sur l ensemble des probl?mes mais nous pouvons d?gager nos int?r?t, je veux dire en tant que communaut? INTERNET, nous sommes les mieux plac?s pour pouvoir situer nos int?r?ts pr?sent et futur. Nous avons besoin des voix qui se l?vent et surtout celles qui s accordent cordialement Le 2019-05-21 00:42, Kossi Amessinou a ?crit?: > Bonsoir ? tous, > J'avais dit ? l'igf monde en 2015 que la guerre du num?rique a > commenc? avec la domination de la langue et qu'il ?tait urgent de > recourir ? la neutralit? linguistique dans l'environnement > technologique. Nous sommes ? mi chemin dans la r?solution de l'enjeu > linguistique que celui de la donn?e a fait surface. > Les ?tats africains sont malheureusement des consommateurs sans > production autonome sollicit?e d'ailleurs et avec nos contenus minima > h?berg?s ailleurs. Nous aurons tout ? perdre dans la guerre froide > du num?rique. La Chine aura son ind?pendance de la racine de > l'int?r?t am?ricain. La Russie de m?me et l'Europe prendra ses > responsabilit?s. Que fera l'Afrique ? > Nous ne devons pas nous vendre l'illusion de nos positions dans les > organisations supranationales pour fermer les yeux sur les d?fis de > notre ?poque. > L'Union Africaine doit mettre en place une unit? de r?flexion > strat?gique sur la place de l'Afrique dans l'?cosyst?me mondial du > num?rique. O? sommes nous et o? souhaitons nous aller ? > Aux grands probl?mes ?vitons d'opposer les petits moyens. > Cordialement. > > Le lun. 20 mai 2019 ? 21:08, sere-parfait Goma a ?crit > : > >> Bonjour ? tous >> >> Nous avons suivi, cette actualit? sur l interdiction du >> gouvernement >> des US sur la vente de la technologie am?ricaine aux entreprises >> chinoise, et ? eu pour cons?quence, la suspension de google de >> son >> produit android ? huawei et les firmes des processeurs et >> microcontr?leur Intel et autre ... >> Nous sommes dans une situation suffisamment in?dite, qui demande >> une >> certaine r?flexion, et peut bien une analyse commune. >> >> cette situation permet de voir visiblement que nous sommes dans un >> monde bipolaire ou chacun essai de faire montre de son dicta soit >> via >> une collecte des donn?es qui s'impose par la taille du march? au >> quel il >> a acc?s et un autre qui s impose par la force des produits et de la >> >> qualit? de ces contenus que il dispose bien, chacun essaie d une >> mani?re >> ou d une autre prouver sa supr?matie par les moyens dont t- il >> dispose. >> >> Quel est le danger derri?re cet affrontement ? Cela aurait des >> impacts >> profonds et ?tendus, et alimenterait davantage ce qui se passe >> d?j? >> - un ordre num?rique mondial bipolaire, un autour des entreprises >> >> am?ricaines et un autre autour des Chinois. Cela pourrait ?tre >> pire que >> la guerre froide car, les verrous num?riques et d?intelligence >> artificielle sont beaucoup plus profonds que ceux de "l??ge de >> l?analogique / de la m?canique" >> >> - En outre, l?ouverture de l?espace num?rique se r?tr?cit, >> de sorte que >> la d?cision num?rique de tout pays / ?conomie deviendrait de plus >> en >> plus tributaire du fait de s?enfermer dans un p?le ou dans l >> autre. >> Depuis les puces et le mat?riel informatique jusqu'aux op?rateurs >> de >> donn?es qui contr?lent divers secteurs, le choix continuera de >> s??triquer, car demain le choix de l ?quipementier ne d?pendras >> plus >> seulement de la performance technologique, mais aussi et surtout du >> type >> de rapports que l on entretien avec le gouvernement du pays. >> >> - l Afrique ?tant un continue ou plus 60% de ses contenus, >> infrastructures (DNS) et des ses donn?es sont h?berger ailleurs >> sous une >> autres l?gislations ou juridiction; nous montre aujourd'hui l >> urgence d >> une r?flexion commune sur notre ind?pendance et la r?silience >> NUMERIQUE >> >> je ne pr?che pas la balkanisation de l internet ou l id?e de >> briser l >> ouverture de l internet, mais force est de constater que nous avons >> un >> devoir important face ? l histoire cela de rester Ind?pendant. >> >> Cordialement >> >> Serge-Parfait Goma >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -- Co-founder OSC 242 vp ISOC cg From hrobert at africacert.org Mon May 27 07:53:46 2019 From: hrobert at africacert.org (Jean-Robert Hountomey) Date: Mon, 27 May 2019 02:53:46 -0500 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Creating a more Trusted Internet experience, together In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5b612d05-503d-66ee-ae81-789a1afffa9f@africacert.org> Dear Colleagues, Following a workshop in 2018 in Dakar, Senegal, during AIS2018 (please see the 2018 report ), GFCE Triple-I will be back with its capacity building workshop in Africa, this time in Kampala, Uganda, during AIS2019. On Sunday 16 June 2019, GFCE Triple-I will work with AfricaCERT, AfriNIC, AfNOG and other AF* organisations as well as ISOC, to host The Internet Infrastructure Security Day. Participants are sought across regional Internet stakeholder groups, including government, business, education, and technical community. Collaborative security is how we build trust in the Internet's infrastructure. You are invited to join this workshop in order to improve the trusted Internet experience in the region. You may want to stimulate people you would need to work with as well to register for this workshop. For registration for the 2019 GFCE Triple-I event @AIS2019, on 16 June 2019 in Kampala, Uganda, please register here . A more detailed agenda and speakers? list is here . The Program Committee. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sander at steffann.nl Mon May 27 12:49:42 2019 From: sander at steffann.nl (Sander Steffann) Date: Mon, 27 May 2019 14:49:42 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude Message-ID: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> Hello, I was just reading the board minutes at https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/2019-minutes/20190305-minutes.pdf and I am surprised at the level of micro-management that CEO Alan Barrett has to deal with. In those minutes both Alan and Seun Ojedeji seem to be reprimanded for being open and transparent to this community. The summary of those minutes show how the board has made it explicitly clear that the CEO is to have no responsibility anymore towards this community. Therefore I would like to explicitly and publicly express my gratitude to both Alan and Seun for their efforts to keep this community involved in Afrinic matters in an open and transparent way. I feel this is a strong requirement for keeping Afrinic respected and supported by both its members and its community. Sincerely, Sander -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP URL: From owen at delong.com Tue May 28 04:24:26 2019 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Mon, 27 May 2019 21:24:26 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Minutes and data from board meetings Message-ID: <91F45BB4-FAF9-474A-9738-CFCDE9D9CD5A@delong.com> I notice that the minutes from the April and May board meetings are not yet published on the web site. As such, I?m curious if additional information can be provided regarding some rather terse motions? I presume that 201904.476 is the genesis of the committee mentioned in 201905.483 and 201905.484. Can the board confirm that: 1. The Ad Hoc committee?s actions were those surrounding the recently concluded staff survey and potentially other advice to the board regarding the current operations and work envinonment in the company. 2. The Ad Hoc committee mentioned in 201905.483 and 201905.484 is, in fact, the one created by 2019.04.476. Further, while I realize that the topics and information contained in the report are likely privileged and sensitive in nature, I would hope that the board could publish some form of sanitized version of the report with enough information to support the recommendations and most, if not all of the recommendations provided by said committee. While I realize that it is likely too short in time for this to be available before Kampala, i hope the board will make reasonable effort to release it as soon as possible. Thank you for your attention to this matter, Owen From owen at delong.com Tue May 28 06:13:22 2019 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Mon, 27 May 2019 23:13:22 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude In-Reply-To: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> Message-ID: Yes, I have to echo what Sander says here? The topic title is intentionally inflammatory and misleading (?Management violation of a contractual obligation?) as if management has a contractual obligation to hide public documents from this community? The document disclosed by Alan to the community was a matter of public record. Anyone can obtain it directly from the courts in Mauritius independently. There was no reason whatsoever for Alan to consider it confidential and the fact that the board would even think such a thing was possible, let alone desirable shows just how out of touch the majority of the AfriNIC board is with their duties and obligations as a board. I wish to applaud Seun Ojedeji, Habib Youssef, Robert Ford, as the few sane voices in the discussion advocating on behalf of AfriNIC members and the community. I wish to particularly call out Serge Ilunga and S. Moonesamy for their particularly absurd idea that a CEO or a board member should or could be enjoined from disclosing a PUBLIC DOCUMENT to members of the community. There is no service to the board and no possibility whatsoever that the document is confidential or contains any form of privileged information since it is a matter of public record. How can these two board members not see that this would be equivalent to faulting the CEO or other board members for quoting from the front page of the New York Times about a relevant article on the community-discuss list without first clearing it with the boar. This is a circus staged purely for the point of abusing the community trust and we should not stand for it. Any member of the board who feels that there is any legitimacy in opposing the disclosure of a published piece of public record of interest to the community has no business being a board member. It?s quite simply a flagrant violation of the trust of the community. I also want to call attention to the following quote from Mr. Ousmane Ly which is not only tautological in nature, but says absolutely nothing: "OL reiterated that it is important for the AfriNIC officials to respect the rules. If the CEO is found in fault, then a sanction may be imposed according to the rules. Board members should be responsible to the Board and AfriNIC as a whole and not to the group nominating him." Apparently he since the minutes state that he reiterated this nonsensical statement, he felt compelled to make it more than once. Robert Ford?s perfectly logical initial statement on this subject is, however, somewhat tempered by his later absurd comment: "RF agreed that the CEO should have consulted the Chair. It was not clear what was the urgency that made the CEO not to await a Board approval. " Perhaps the CEO didn?t so much seek board approval or even chair approval as ?advised the chair of his intent to publish? which would be what I would have expected under the circumstances. There was perhaps no urgency, per se, but there was also no reason to delay publication of a document which was technically already published in other fora and readily available to anyone who wished to obtain it from the courts of Mauritius. From the outside, looking in on this discussion, it appears to me that some fraction of the board got all butt-hurt because they weren?t allowed to control the timing and content of the release of information to the community when there was no valid reason for them to do so. I mean really, what possible harm comes from this disclosure? In reality, CEO acted in the best interests of all parties? Community, Membership, and Board in making a timely and up front direct honest and true disclosure of the court documents to the community. I have to ask what kind of shenanigans or subterfuge those board members intended by delaying publication or altering the disclosure? Sunlight is the best disinfectant and to me, the only questionable actions here are the actions of the board members seeking to limit disclosure to the community. Any board member which would make such a statement as Mr. Vika Mpisane did here: "The Board Chair needs to meet the CEO to make him aware of his responsibilities in detail towards the Board, and to appreciate that he is accountable to the Board and not to the community members.? Demonstrates not only a lack of understanding of his position as a board member, but so thorough a lack of understanding of how the accountability of this organization should function that he has, IMHO, no business sitting on the board until he can demonstrate that he has been sufficiently retrained. The board and the CEO must be accountable to the membership and the community. Yes, the CEO must be accountable to the board in how he runs the organization, but that does not relieve him of his accountability to the membership and the community.. The board is kept accountable to the membership by virtue of the election process (and by extension to the community as the membership is somewhat representative of the community). The CEO is not so directly accountable to the community in such a hard way, but should, nonetheless have a sense of duty and obligation to work diligently on behalf of the members and the community. Indeed, the board and the CEO should look to the membership as the final authority in any dispute and the continuing attempts by the board to limit disclosures to the community only foment further distrust of the board by the community and the membership. The board and CEO have equal responsibility to act as checks and balances of each other with the membership as the final arbiter of any dispute. The true absurdity of this whole proceeding is well summarized by Christian Bope in the following two sentences: ? the CEO should have consulted the Board with regards to the publication; if it was urgent the CEO should have consulted the Chair; ? the Management has a tendency to send too many documents to the Board; unless there is an urgent matter, all documents or decisions which require Board approval should be submitted for Board discussion at least 14 days prior scheduled Board meeting, So in one breath he complains that the CEO didn?t send the document to the board for approval prior to publication and in the next breath he complains that the CEO sends too many documents to the board. Well, Mr. Bope, which is it? Do you want the CEO to have greater autonomy and bother the board less, or do you want to micromanage every aspect of the CEO?s actions? How can a CEO possibly operate effectively when the guidance he receives from the board is so thoroughly dysfunctional? All of this just in topic 1. Now, let us consider topic 2? Serge Ilunga claims that by disclosing a public document, Seun Ojedeji somehow violated the board NDA? I haven?t read this specific NDA, but never in my life have I ever been asked to or signed an NDA which required me to keep confidential any documis otherwise published and/ made public by other independent means that were not a violation of an NDA. In this case, Seun stands accused of distributing a document which was well and truly public before the board received it. It would have been impossible for him to violate any reasonable NDA by further disclosing it and any claim that he did is so completely absurd that it makes me thoroughly question Mr. Ilunga?s qualifications as a member of the board. There is some reassurance that can be taken in that the board as a whole at least realized that Mr. Ilunga?s accusation is baseless and wholly without merit. Indeed, the one and only legitimate item on the agenda was then deferred to the next meeting followed by, perhaps, the most absurd question and most ridiculous answer in the entire set of minutes: ?The Chair asked the Board whether there is a need to seek SM?s consent before the public release of the Court Rulings.? Let me get this straight? The Chair felt compelled to ask the board whether or not they needed the consent of a single board member (which I see no particular reason to ask this particular board member and there is no explanation in the minutes) prior to the public release of a document which is ALREADY PUBLIC? How can the board possibly do anything before the public release of a document which was, by definition, publicly released at the time the board received it? I would expect the only rational answer that could possibly come to that question would be ?Uh, that?s kind of absurd since the document is already public.? Nonetheless, the answer from this beloved board? Here you go: ?After discussion, there was no agreement on whether to seek consent.? That?s right, folks? A collective ?Uh, we can?t agree.? Unfortunately, in yet another triumph of board opaqueness, we aren?t treated to any minutes of this discussion that would allow us to identify which board members offered a correct answer vs. which ones were still clinging to the absurd notion that the document was somehow not already public. To make matters worse, the nature of the board NDA probably precludes each board member from even disclosing his own view to the community. So? I hereby encourage the board to take up the question of waiving the NDA with respect to this question and ask that each board member self-identify as to whether they believe that this public document is somehow not yet publicly released. Thanks for your attention and thanks, Sander for calling this to our attention. Owen > On May 27, 2019, at 05:49 , Sander Steffann wrote: > > Hello, > > I was just reading the board minutes at https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/2019-minutes/20190305-minutes.pdf and I am surprised at the level of micro-management that CEO Alan Barrett has to deal with. In those minutes both Alan and Seun Ojedeji seem to be reprimanded for being open and transparent to this community. The summary of those minutes show how the board has made it explicitly clear that the CEO is to have no responsibility anymore towards this community. > > Therefore I would like to explicitly and publicly express my gratitude to both Alan and Seun for their efforts to keep this community involved in Afrinic matters in an open and transparent way. I feel this is a strong requirement for keeping Afrinic respected and supported by both its members and its community. > > Sincerely, > Sander > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From geier at geier.ne.tz Tue May 28 10:49:36 2019 From: geier at geier.ne.tz (Frank Habicht) Date: Tue, 28 May 2019 13:49:36 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude In-Reply-To: References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> Message-ID: <1775bf5e-215e-f4b4-f5d9-ff7990e8a4cb@geier.ne.tz> Dear AfriNIC board members, reference is made in below email, and also in several other discussion items regarding AfriNIC and its governance, to an NDA that board members are to adhere to. Can you share the document please? I'm convinced that people have seen it before they signed the NDA. Because they have to read it before they sign it. So the NDA is shared before coming into effect for any (new) board member. So I trust the NDA doesn't fall under the NDA, because it is information that people get before signing the NDA. If more good reasons to share it are required: For arguments' sake, let's assume someone wants to become a board member, through being a candidate and winning elections: would it not be fair to share before this process the document that this person would be required to sign when elected? In case this request does not work, I would ask any new board member of AfriNIC to share the NDA document on social media or public mailing list before signing it. Before they have to adhere to the NDA. It's just more transparency ;-) Thanks, Frank On 28/05/2019 09:13, Owen DeLong wrote: > Yes, I have to echo what Sander says here? > > The topic title is intentionally inflammatory and misleading > (?Management violation of a contractual obligation?) as if management > has a contractual obligation to hide public documents from this community? > > The document disclosed by Alan to the community was a matter of public > record. Anyone can obtain it directly from the courts in Mauritius > independently. There was no reason whatsoever for Alan to consider it > confidential and the fact that the board would even think such a thing > was possible, let alone desirable shows just how out of touch the > majority of the AfriNIC board is with their duties and obligations as a > board. > > I wish to applaud Seun Ojedeji, Habib Youssef, Robert Ford, as the few > sane voices in the discussion advocating on behalf of AfriNIC members > and the community. > > I wish to particularly call out Serge Ilunga and S. Moonesamy for their > particularly absurd idea that a CEO or a board member should or could be > enjoined from disclosing a PUBLIC DOCUMENT to members of the community. > There is no service to the board and no possibility whatsoever that the > document is confidential or contains any form of privileged information > since it is a matter of public record. How can these two board members > not see that this would be equivalent to faulting the CEO or other board > members for quoting from the front page of the New York Times about a > relevant article on the community-discuss list without first clearing it > with the boar. This is a circus staged purely for the point of abusing > the community trust and we should not stand for it. > > Any member of the board who feels that there is any legitimacy in > opposing the disclosure of a published piece of public record of > interest to the community has no business being a board member. It?s > quite simply a flagrant violation of the trust of the community. > > I also want to call attention to the following quote from Mr. Ousmane Ly > which is not only tautological in nature, but says absolutely nothing: > > "OL reiterated that it is important for the AfriNIC officials to > respect the rules. If the CEO is found in fault, then a sanction may > be imposed according to the rules. Board members should be > responsible to the Board and AfriNIC as a whole and not to the group > nominating him."? > > Apparently he since the minutes state that he reiterated this > nonsensical statement, he felt compelled to make it more than once. > > Robert Ford?s perfectly logical initial statement on this subject is, > however, somewhat tempered by his later absurd comment: > > "RF agreed that the CEO should have consulted the Chair. It was not > clear what was the urgency that made the CEO not to await a Board > approval. " > > Perhaps the CEO didn?t so much seek board approval or even chair > approval as ?advised the chair of his intent to publish? which would be > what I would have expected under the circumstances. There was perhaps no > urgency, per se, but there was also no reason to delay publication of a > document which was technically already published in other fora and > readily available to anyone who wished to obtain it from the courts of > Mauritius. > > From the outside, looking in on this discussion, it appears to me that > some fraction of the board got all butt-hurt because they weren?t > allowed to control the timing and content of the release of information > to the community when there was no valid reason for them to do so. I > mean really, what possible harm comes from this disclosure? In reality, > CEO acted in the best interests of all parties? Community, Membership, > and Board in making a timely and up front direct honest and true > disclosure of the court documents to the community. > > I have to ask what kind of shenanigans or subterfuge those board members > intended by delaying publication or altering the disclosure? Sunlight is > the best disinfectant and to me, the only questionable actions here are > the actions of the board members seeking to limit disclosure to the > community. > > Any board member which would make such a statement as Mr. Vika Mpisane > did here: > > "The Board Chair needs to meet the CEO to make him aware of his > responsibilities in detail towards the Board, and to appreciate that > he is accountable to the Board and not to the community members.? > > > Demonstrates not only a lack of understanding of his position as a board > member, but so thorough a lack of understanding of how the > accountability of this organization should function that he has, IMHO, > no business sitting on the board until he can demonstrate that he has > been sufficiently retrained. The board and the CEO must be accountable > to the membership and the community. Yes, the CEO must be accountable to > the board in how he runs the organization, but that does not relieve him > of his accountability to the membership and the community.. The board is > kept accountable to the membership by virtue of the election process > (and by extension to the community as the membership is somewhat > representative of the community). The CEO is not so directly accountable > to the community in such a hard way, but should, nonetheless have a > sense of duty and obligation to work diligently on behalf of the members > and the community. Indeed, the board and the CEO should look to the > membership as the final authority in any dispute and the continuing > attempts by the board to limit disclosures to the community only foment > further distrust of the board by the community and the membership. > > The board and CEO have equal responsibility to act as checks and > balances of each other with the membership as the final arbiter of any > dispute. > > The true absurdity of this whole proceeding is well summarized by > Christian Bope in the following two sentences: > > * > > ? ?the CEO should have consulted the Board with regards to the > publication; if it was urgent the CEO should have consulted the Chair; > > * > > ? ?the Management has a tendency to send too many documents to the > Board; unless there is an urgent matter, all documents or decisions > which require Board approval should be submitted for Board > discussion at least 14 days prior scheduled Board meeting,? > > So in one breath he complains that the CEO didn?t send the document to > the board for approval prior to publication and in the next breath he > complains that the CEO sends too many documents to the board. > > Well, Mr. Bope, which is it? Do you want the CEO to have greater > autonomy and bother the board less, or do you want to micromanage every > aspect of the CEO?s actions? > > How can a CEO possibly operate effectively when the guidance he receives > from the board is so thoroughly dysfunctional? > > All of this just in topic 1. Now, let us consider topic 2? > > Serge Ilunga claims that by disclosing a public document, Seun Ojedeji > somehow violated the board NDA? I haven?t read this specific NDA, but > never in my life have I ever been asked to or signed an NDA which > required me to keep confidential any documis otherwise published and/ > made public by other independent means that were not a violation of an NDA. > > In this case, Seun stands accused of distributing a document which was > well and truly public before the board received it. It would have been > impossible for him to violate any reasonable NDA by further disclosing > it and any claim that he did is so completely absurd that it makes me > thoroughly question Mr. Ilunga?s qualifications as a member of the board. > > There is some reassurance that can be taken in that the board as a whole > at least realized that Mr. Ilunga?s accusation is baseless and wholly > without merit. > > Indeed, the one and only legitimate item on the agenda was then deferred > to the next meeting followed ?by, perhaps, the most absurd question and > most ridiculous answer in the entire set of minutes: > > ?The Chair asked the Board whether there is a need to seek SM?s > consent before the public release of the Court Rulings.? > > > Let me get this straight? The Chair felt compelled to ask the board > whether or not they needed the consent of a single board member (which I > see no particular reason to ask this particular board member and there > is no explanation in the minutes) prior to the public release of a > document which is ALREADY PUBLIC? How can the board possibly do anything > before the public release of a document which was, by definition, > publicly released at the time the board received it? > > I would expect the only rational answer that could possibly come to that > question would be ?Uh, that?s kind of absurd since the document is > already public.? > > Nonetheless, the answer from this beloved board? Here you go: > > ?After discussion, there was no agreement on whether to seek consent.? > > > That?s right, folks? A collective ?Uh, we can?t agree.? Unfortunately, > in yet another triumph of board opaqueness, we aren?t treated to any > minutes of this discussion that would allow us to identify which board > members offered a correct answer vs. which ones were still clinging to > the absurd notion that the document was somehow not already public. To > make matters worse, the nature of the board NDA probably precludes each > board member from even disclosing his own view to the community. > > So? I hereby encourage the board to take up the question of waiving the > NDA with respect to this question and ask that each board member > self-identify as to whether they believe that this public document is > somehow not yet publicly released. > > Thanks for your attention and thanks, Sander for calling this to our > attention. > > Owen > >> On May 27, 2019, at 05:49 , Sander Steffann > > wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> I was just reading the board minutes at >> https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/2019-minutes/20190305-minutes.pdf and >> I am surprised at the level of micro-management that CEO Alan Barrett >> has to deal with. In those minutes both Alan and Seun Ojedeji seem to >> be reprimanded for being open and transparent to this community. The >> summary of those minutes show how the board has made it explicitly >> clear that the CEO is to have no responsibility anymore towards this >> community. >> >> Therefore I would like to explicitly and publicly express my gratitude >> to both Alan and Seun for their efforts to keep this community >> involved in Afrinic matters in an open and transparent way. I feel >> this is a strong requirement for keeping Afrinic respected and >> supported by both its members and its community. >> >> Sincerely, >> Sander >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > From barry.macharia at me.com Tue May 28 11:23:42 2019 From: barry.macharia at me.com (Barry Macharia) Date: Tue, 28 May 2019 14:23:42 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude In-Reply-To: <1775bf5e-215e-f4b4-f5d9-ff7990e8a4cb@geier.ne.tz> References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> <1775bf5e-215e-f4b4-f5d9-ff7990e8a4cb@geier.ne.tz> Message-ID: I agree with you on this since the NDA has always been white elephant in the room let members have a look or say on it regards Barry macharia > On 28 May 2019, at 13:49, Frank Habicht wrote: > > Dear AfriNIC board members, > > reference is made in below email, and also in several other discussion > items regarding AfriNIC and its governance, to an NDA that board members > are to adhere to. > > Can you share the document please? > > I'm convinced that people have seen it before they signed the NDA. > Because they have to read it before they sign it. > So the NDA is shared before coming into effect for any (new) board > member. So I trust the NDA doesn't fall under the NDA, because it is > information that people get before signing the NDA. > > If more good reasons to share it are required: > For arguments' sake, let's assume someone wants to become a board > member, through being a candidate and winning elections: would it not be > fair to share before this process the document that this person would be > required to sign when elected? > > In case this request does not work, I would ask any new board member of > AfriNIC to share the NDA document on social media or public mailing list > before signing it. Before they have to adhere to the NDA. > > It's just more transparency ;-) > > Thanks, > Frank > > > On 28/05/2019 09:13, Owen DeLong wrote: >> Yes, I have to echo what Sander says here? >> >> The topic title is intentionally inflammatory and misleading >> (?Management violation of a contractual obligation?) as if management >> has a contractual obligation to hide public documents from this community? >> >> The document disclosed by Alan to the community was a matter of public >> record. Anyone can obtain it directly from the courts in Mauritius >> independently. There was no reason whatsoever for Alan to consider it >> confidential and the fact that the board would even think such a thing >> was possible, let alone desirable shows just how out of touch the >> majority of the AfriNIC board is with their duties and obligations as a >> board. >> >> I wish to applaud Seun Ojedeji, Habib Youssef, Robert Ford, as the few >> sane voices in the discussion advocating on behalf of AfriNIC members >> and the community. >> >> I wish to particularly call out Serge Ilunga and S. Moonesamy for their >> particularly absurd idea that a CEO or a board member should or could be >> enjoined from disclosing a PUBLIC DOCUMENT to members of the community. >> There is no service to the board and no possibility whatsoever that the >> document is confidential or contains any form of privileged information >> since it is a matter of public record. How can these two board members >> not see that this would be equivalent to faulting the CEO or other board >> members for quoting from the front page of the New York Times about a >> relevant article on the community-discuss list without first clearing it >> with the boar. This is a circus staged purely for the point of abusing >> the community trust and we should not stand for it. >> >> Any member of the board who feels that there is any legitimacy in >> opposing the disclosure of a published piece of public record of >> interest to the community has no business being a board member. It?s >> quite simply a flagrant violation of the trust of the community. >> >> I also want to call attention to the following quote from Mr. Ousmane Ly >> which is not only tautological in nature, but says absolutely nothing: >> >> "OL reiterated that it is important for the AfriNIC officials to >> respect the rules. If the CEO is found in fault, then a sanction may >> be imposed according to the rules. Board members should be >> responsible to the Board and AfriNIC as a whole and not to the group >> nominating him." >> >> Apparently he since the minutes state that he reiterated this >> nonsensical statement, he felt compelled to make it more than once. >> >> Robert Ford?s perfectly logical initial statement on this subject is, >> however, somewhat tempered by his later absurd comment: >> >> "RF agreed that the CEO should have consulted the Chair. It was not >> clear what was the urgency that made the CEO not to await a Board >> approval. " >> >> Perhaps the CEO didn?t so much seek board approval or even chair >> approval as ?advised the chair of his intent to publish? which would be >> what I would have expected under the circumstances. There was perhaps no >> urgency, per se, but there was also no reason to delay publication of a >> document which was technically already published in other fora and >> readily available to anyone who wished to obtain it from the courts of >> Mauritius. >> >> From the outside, looking in on this discussion, it appears to me that >> some fraction of the board got all butt-hurt because they weren?t >> allowed to control the timing and content of the release of information >> to the community when there was no valid reason for them to do so. I >> mean really, what possible harm comes from this disclosure? In reality, >> CEO acted in the best interests of all parties? Community, Membership, >> and Board in making a timely and up front direct honest and true >> disclosure of the court documents to the community. >> >> I have to ask what kind of shenanigans or subterfuge those board members >> intended by delaying publication or altering the disclosure? Sunlight is >> the best disinfectant and to me, the only questionable actions here are >> the actions of the board members seeking to limit disclosure to the >> community. >> >> Any board member which would make such a statement as Mr. Vika Mpisane >> did here: >> >> "The Board Chair needs to meet the CEO to make him aware of his >> responsibilities in detail towards the Board, and to appreciate that >> he is accountable to the Board and not to the community members.? >> >> >> Demonstrates not only a lack of understanding of his position as a board >> member, but so thorough a lack of understanding of how the >> accountability of this organization should function that he has, IMHO, >> no business sitting on the board until he can demonstrate that he has >> been sufficiently retrained. The board and the CEO must be accountable >> to the membership and the community. Yes, the CEO must be accountable to >> the board in how he runs the organization, but that does not relieve him >> of his accountability to the membership and the community.. The board is >> kept accountable to the membership by virtue of the election process >> (and by extension to the community as the membership is somewhat >> representative of the community). The CEO is not so directly accountable >> to the community in such a hard way, but should, nonetheless have a >> sense of duty and obligation to work diligently on behalf of the members >> and the community. Indeed, the board and the CEO should look to the >> membership as the final authority in any dispute and the continuing >> attempts by the board to limit disclosures to the community only foment >> further distrust of the board by the community and the membership. >> >> The board and CEO have equal responsibility to act as checks and >> balances of each other with the membership as the final arbiter of any >> dispute. >> >> The true absurdity of this whole proceeding is well summarized by >> Christian Bope in the following two sentences: >> >> * >> >> ? the CEO should have consulted the Board with regards to the >> publication; if it was urgent the CEO should have consulted the Chair; >> >> * >> >> ? the Management has a tendency to send too many documents to the >> Board; unless there is an urgent matter, all documents or decisions >> which require Board approval should be submitted for Board >> discussion at least 14 days prior scheduled Board meeting, >> >> So in one breath he complains that the CEO didn?t send the document to >> the board for approval prior to publication and in the next breath he >> complains that the CEO sends too many documents to the board. >> >> Well, Mr. Bope, which is it? Do you want the CEO to have greater >> autonomy and bother the board less, or do you want to micromanage every >> aspect of the CEO?s actions? >> >> How can a CEO possibly operate effectively when the guidance he receives >> from the board is so thoroughly dysfunctional? >> >> All of this just in topic 1. Now, let us consider topic 2? >> >> Serge Ilunga claims that by disclosing a public document, Seun Ojedeji >> somehow violated the board NDA? I haven?t read this specific NDA, but >> never in my life have I ever been asked to or signed an NDA which >> required me to keep confidential any documis otherwise published and/ >> made public by other independent means that were not a violation of an NDA. >> >> In this case, Seun stands accused of distributing a document which was >> well and truly public before the board received it. It would have been >> impossible for him to violate any reasonable NDA by further disclosing >> it and any claim that he did is so completely absurd that it makes me >> thoroughly question Mr. Ilunga?s qualifications as a member of the board. >> >> There is some reassurance that can be taken in that the board as a whole >> at least realized that Mr. Ilunga?s accusation is baseless and wholly >> without merit. >> >> Indeed, the one and only legitimate item on the agenda was then deferred >> to the next meeting followed by, perhaps, the most absurd question and >> most ridiculous answer in the entire set of minutes: >> >> ?The Chair asked the Board whether there is a need to seek SM?s >> consent before the public release of the Court Rulings.? >> >> >> Let me get this straight? The Chair felt compelled to ask the board >> whether or not they needed the consent of a single board member (which I >> see no particular reason to ask this particular board member and there >> is no explanation in the minutes) prior to the public release of a >> document which is ALREADY PUBLIC? How can the board possibly do anything >> before the public release of a document which was, by definition, >> publicly released at the time the board received it? >> >> I would expect the only rational answer that could possibly come to that >> question would be ?Uh, that?s kind of absurd since the document is >> already public.? >> >> Nonetheless, the answer from this beloved board? Here you go: >> >> ?After discussion, there was no agreement on whether to seek consent.? >> >> >> That?s right, folks? A collective ?Uh, we can?t agree.? Unfortunately, >> in yet another triumph of board opaqueness, we aren?t treated to any >> minutes of this discussion that would allow us to identify which board >> members offered a correct answer vs. which ones were still clinging to >> the absurd notion that the document was somehow not already public. To >> make matters worse, the nature of the board NDA probably precludes each >> board member from even disclosing his own view to the community. >> >> So? I hereby encourage the board to take up the question of waiving the >> NDA with respect to this question and ask that each board member >> self-identify as to whether they believe that this public document is >> somehow not yet publicly released. >> >> Thanks for your attention and thanks, Sander for calling this to our >> attention. >> >> Owen >> >>> On May 27, 2019, at 05:49 , Sander Steffann >> >> wrote: >>> >>> Hello, >>> >>> I was just reading the board minutes at >>> https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/2019-minutes/20190305-minutes.pdf and >>> I am surprised at the level of micro-management that CEO Alan Barrett >>> has to deal with. In those minutes both Alan and Seun Ojedeji seem to >>> be reprimanded for being open and transparent to this community. The >>> summary of those minutes show how the board has made it explicitly >>> clear that the CEO is to have no responsibility anymore towards this >>> community. >>> >>> Therefore I would like to explicitly and publicly express my gratitude >>> to both Alan and Seun for their efforts to keep this community >>> involved in Afrinic matters in an open and transparent way. I feel >>> this is a strong requirement for keeping Afrinic respected and >>> supported by both its members and its community. >>> >>> Sincerely, >>> Sander >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Community-Discuss mailing list >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From benjamin.ledoh at gmail.com Tue May 28 12:00:31 2019 From: benjamin.ledoh at gmail.com (Benjamin Ledoh) Date: Tue, 28 May 2019 12:00:31 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude In-Reply-To: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> Message-ID: Dear Sander, In your email to the community, you wrote > I am surprised at the level of micro-management that CEO Alan Barrett has to deal with. I have read the minutes and I could not see any trace that is related to ?micro-management?. Rather the discussion revolved around the procedure to publish the judgement, who should publish the judgement, and the issue of NDA. Could you please show me in the minutes the part that is dealing with the micro-management? Thank you, Benjiloh On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 12:50 PM Sander Steffann wrote: > Hello, > > I was just reading the board minutes at > https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/2019-minutes/20190305-minutes.pdf and I > am surprised at the level of micro-management that CEO Alan Barrett has to > deal with. In those minutes both Alan and Seun Ojedeji seem to be > reprimanded for being open and transparent to this community. The summary > of those minutes show how the board has made it explicitly clear that the > CEO is to have no responsibility anymore towards this community. > > Therefore I would like to explicitly and publicly express my gratitude to > both Alan and Seun for their efforts to keep this community involved in > Afrinic matters in an open and transparent way. I feel this is a strong > requirement for keeping Afrinic respected and supported by both its members > and its community. > > Sincerely, > Sander > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sander at steffann.nl Tue May 28 12:31:13 2019 From: sander at steffann.nl (Sander Steffann) Date: Tue, 28 May 2019 14:31:13 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude In-Reply-To: References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> Message-ID: <03398937-1706-4D9F-B47B-C18DA8D16F38@steffann.nl> Hello Benjamin, > In your email to the community, you wrote > > > I am surprised at the level of micro-management that CEO Alan Barrett has to deal with. > > I have read the minutes and I could not see any trace that is related to ?micro-management?. Rather the discussion revolved around the procedure to publish the judgement, who should publish the judgement, and the issue of NDA. > > Could you please show me in the minutes the part that is dealing with the micro-management? The fact that all responsibility and autonomy of the CEO has been taken away is the textbook example of micro management... Cheers, Sander From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com Tue May 28 12:36:24 2019 From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston) Date: Tue, 28 May 2019 12:36:24 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude In-Reply-To: References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> Message-ID: Benjamin, Let?s see ? you have a public document ? a document that is clearly and totally in the public domain. You have an individual who was a named party in that document ? who chose to share that document. You have an active attempt by the board to sanction that individual for engaging with the community who he is meant to serve. You have a statement by the chair of the board that the CEO does not serve the community but instead serves the board. Effectively ? you have a board attempting to censor the CEO from engaging with this community ? in a bottom up organization that by legal representation during the IANA transition committed to the concepts of self determination of members and transparency and bottom up approach. 1. That constitutes micro-management 2. In constitutes a total and utter failure of the board to adhere to the principles sworn to in the foundation of the organization in the original ICP2 3. It shows a total disregard for the obligations set out in section 3 of the bylaws to keep members informed of all things pertinent to the company What I see here ? is nothing short of disgraceful ? and I find it absolutely shocking that any board member who has a shred of ethics ? would not have resigned in light of what is in those documents. It is a slap in the face of this community ? and the entire global RIR system ? and I am disgusted and appalled. I would say to Serge as a starting point ? if you have no shame ? resign ? now. I would say to the chair for your abject failure ? resign ? now. I would say to every member who consented to the final sections of that document ? resign ? now. Andrew From: Benjamin Ledoh Sent: Tuesday, 28 May 2019 15:01 To: Sander Steffann Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude Dear Sander, In your email to the community, you wrote > I am surprised at the level of micro-management that CEO Alan Barrett has to deal with. I have read the minutes and I could not see any trace that is related to ?micro-management?. Rather the discussion revolved around the procedure to publish the judgement, who should publish the judgement, and the issue of NDA. Could you please show me in the minutes the part that is dealing with the micro-management? Thank you, Benjiloh On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 12:50 PM Sander Steffann > wrote: Hello, I was just reading the board minutes at https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/2019-minutes/20190305-minutes.pdf and I am surprised at the level of micro-management that CEO Alan Barrett has to deal with. In those minutes both Alan and Seun Ojedeji seem to be reprimanded for being open and transparent to this community. The summary of those minutes show how the board has made it explicitly clear that the CEO is to have no responsibility anymore towards this community. Therefore I would like to explicitly and publicly express my gratitude to both Alan and Seun for their efforts to keep this community involved in Afrinic matters in an open and transparent way. I feel this is a strong requirement for keeping Afrinic respected and supported by both its members and its community. Sincerely, Sander _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From benjamin.ledoh at gmail.com Tue May 28 12:56:19 2019 From: benjamin.ledoh at gmail.com (Benjamin Ledoh) Date: Tue, 28 May 2019 12:56:19 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude In-Reply-To: <03398937-1706-4D9F-B47B-C18DA8D16F38@steffann.nl> References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> <03398937-1706-4D9F-B47B-C18DA8D16F38@steffann.nl> Message-ID: Dear Sander, You could not point out the issue of micromanagement in the minutes and moreover, you have made another mistake. Can you prove that "all responsibility and autonomy of the CEO has been taken away"? Thanks Benjiloh On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 12:31 PM Sander Steffann wrote: > Hello Benjamin, > > > In your email to the community, you wrote > > > > > I am surprised at the level of micro-management that CEO Alan Barrett > has to deal with. > > > > I have read the minutes and I could not see any trace that is related to > ?micro-management?. Rather the discussion revolved around the procedure to > publish the judgement, who should publish the judgement, and the issue of > NDA. > > > > Could you please show me in the minutes the part that is dealing with > the micro-management? > > The fact that all responsibility and autonomy of the CEO has been taken > away is the textbook example of micro management... > > Cheers, > Sander > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mje at posix.co.za Tue May 28 13:07:42 2019 From: mje at posix.co.za (Mark Elkins) Date: Tue, 28 May 2019 15:07:42 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude In-Reply-To: References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> <03398937-1706-4D9F-B47B-C18DA8D16F38@steffann.nl> Message-ID: <85e8a672-0dde-4404-44c9-fe4bb6561c2a@posix.co.za> On 2019/05/28 14:56, Benjamin Ledoh wrote: > Dear Sander, > > You could not point out the issue of micromanagement in the minutes > and moreover, you have made another mistake. > > Can you prove that "all responsibility and autonomy of the CEO has > been taken away"? ... and you then wonder why the CEO has resigned? > > Thanks > > > Benjiloh > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 12:31 PM Sander Steffann > wrote: > > Hello Benjamin, > > > In your email to the community, you wrote > > > > > I am surprised at the level of micro-management that CEO Alan > Barrett has to deal with. > > > > I have read the minutes and I could not see any trace that is > related to ?micro-management?. Rather the discussion revolved > around the procedure to publish the judgement, who should publish > the judgement, and the issue of NDA. > > > > Could you please show me in the minutes the part that is dealing > with the micro-management? > > The fact that all responsibility and autonomy of the CEO has been > taken away is the textbook example of micro management... > > Cheers, > Sander > > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -- Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa mje at posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496 For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From benjamin.ledoh at gmail.com Tue May 28 13:16:17 2019 From: benjamin.ledoh at gmail.com (Benjamin Ledoh) Date: Tue, 28 May 2019 13:16:17 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude In-Reply-To: <85e8a672-0dde-4404-44c9-fe4bb6561c2a@posix.co.za> References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> <03398937-1706-4D9F-B47B-C18DA8D16F38@steffann.nl> <85e8a672-0dde-4404-44c9-fe4bb6561c2a@posix.co.za> Message-ID: Dear Mark, Has the CEO told you that he resigned because "all responsibility and autonomy .... has been taken away"? Thanks Benjiloh On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 1:08 PM Mark Elkins wrote: > > On 2019/05/28 14:56, Benjamin Ledoh wrote: > > Dear Sander, > > You could not point out the issue of micromanagement in the minutes and > moreover, you have made another mistake. > > Can you prove that "all responsibility and autonomy of the CEO has been > taken away"? > > ... and you then wonder why the CEO has resigned? > > > > Thanks > > > Benjiloh > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 12:31 PM Sander Steffann > wrote: > >> Hello Benjamin, >> >> > In your email to the community, you wrote >> > >> > > I am surprised at the level of micro-management that CEO Alan Barrett >> has to deal with. >> > >> > I have read the minutes and I could not see any trace that is related >> to ?micro-management?. Rather the discussion revolved around the procedure >> to publish the judgement, who should publish the judgement, and the issue >> of NDA. >> > >> > Could you please show me in the minutes the part that is dealing with >> the micro-management? >> >> The fact that all responsibility and autonomy of the CEO has been taken >> away is the textbook example of micro management... >> >> Cheers, >> Sander >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > -- > Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africamje at posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496 > For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mje at posix.co.za Tue May 28 13:18:34 2019 From: mje at posix.co.za (Mark Elkins) Date: Tue, 28 May 2019 15:18:34 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude In-Reply-To: References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> Message-ID: <8671312b-793a-861f-31f1-6d9d682fb893@posix.co.za> Thinking about the CEO, reading the minutes ( https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/2019-minutes/20190305-minutes.pdf ) - I think the best way out for the AfriNIC community is if the whole board resigns - just leave the CEO. Andrew has got it right. On 2019/05/28 14:36, Andrew Alston wrote: > > Benjamin, > > Let?s see ? you have a public document ? a document that is clearly > and totally in the public domain. You have an individual who was a > named party in that document ? who chose to share that document.? You > have an active attempt by the board to sanction that individual for > engaging with the community who he is meant to serve.? You have a > statement by the chair of the board that the CEO does not serve the > community but instead serves the board. > > Effectively ? you have a board attempting to censor the CEO from > engaging with this community ? in a bottom up organization that by > legal representation during the IANA transition committed to the > concepts of self determination of members and transparency and bottom > up approach. > > 1. That constitutes micro-management > 2. In constitutes a total and utter failure of the board to adhere to > the principles sworn to in the foundation of the organization in > the original ICP2 > 3. It shows a total disregard for the obligations set out in section > 3 of the bylaws to keep members informed of all things pertinent > to the company > > What I see here ? is nothing short of disgraceful ? and I find it > absolutely shocking that any board member who has a shred of ethics ? > would not have resigned in light of what is in those documents.? It is > a slap in the face of this community ? and the entire global RIR > system ? and I am disgusted and appalled.? I would say to Serge as a > starting point ? if you have no shame ? resign ? now.? I would say to > the chair for your abject failure ? resign ? now.? I would say to > every member who consented to the final sections of that document ? > resign ? now. > > Andrew > > *From:*Benjamin Ledoh > *Sent:* Tuesday, 28 May 2019 15:01 > *To:* Sander Steffann > *Cc:* General Discussions of AFRINIC > *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude > > Dear Sander, > > In your email to the community, you wrote > > > I am surprised at the level of micro-management that CEO Alan > Barrett has to deal with. > > I have read the minutes and I could not see any trace that is related > to ?micro-management?. Rather the discussion revolved around the > procedure to publish the judgement, who should publish the judgement, > and the issue of NDA. > > Could you please show me in the minutes the part that is dealing with > the micro-management? > > Thank you, > > > Benjiloh > > On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 12:50 PM Sander Steffann > wrote: > > Hello, > > I was just reading the board minutes at > https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/2019-minutes/20190305-minutes.pdf > and I am surprised at the level of micro-management that CEO Alan > Barrett has to deal with. In those minutes both Alan and Seun > Ojedeji seem to be reprimanded for being open and transparent to > this community. The summary of those minutes show how the board > has made it explicitly clear that the CEO is to have no > responsibility anymore towards this community. > > Therefore I would like to explicitly and publicly express my > gratitude to both Alan and Seun for their efforts to keep this > community involved in Afrinic matters in an open and transparent > way. I feel this is a strong requirement for keeping Afrinic > respected and supported by both its members and its community. > > Sincerely, > Sander > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -- Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa mje at posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496 For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From geier at geier.ne.tz Tue May 28 13:36:13 2019 From: geier at geier.ne.tz (Frank Habicht) Date: Tue, 28 May 2019 16:36:13 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude In-Reply-To: <8671312b-793a-861f-31f1-6d9d682fb893@posix.co.za> References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> <8671312b-793a-861f-31f1-6d9d682fb893@posix.co.za> Message-ID: <41c382a1-8acc-b521-8480-de0e84272748@geier.ne.tz> Hi, reading https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/2018-minutes/20181231-minutes.pdf especially: SO stated that he had requested via email for the Board to announce the status of the AGMM quorum court case. He stated that the Chair had refused to do so, and the Chair had alleged that SO was looking for votes. SO had requested the Chair to withdraw the statement. The Chair stated that the Board had discussed the matter, and would communicate to the community at an appropriate time; based on that the Chair did not see a need to withdraw. SO again requested the Chair to withdraw the allegation that SO was looking for votes, and the Chair again refused to withdraw. I conclude that the Chair actively tried to suppress information/updates from AfriNIC membership. He apparently had no good reason and was using the allegation of another board member "looking for votes" as only argument. Which member of AfriNIC wants to have such a chair at the AfriNIC board? Please identify yourselves positively. PS: I would also wish to know which other board members supported this decision by the chair. Thanks, Frank On 28/05/2019 16:18, Mark Elkins wrote: > Thinking about the CEO, reading the minutes ( > https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/2019-minutes/20190305-minutes.pdf ) - I > think the best way out for the AfriNIC community is if the whole board > resigns - just leave the CEO. Andrew has got it right. > > On 2019/05/28 14:36, Andrew Alston wrote: >> >> Benjamin, >> >> ? >> >> Let?s see ? you have a public document ? a document that is clearly >> and totally in the public domain.? You have an individual who was a >> named party in that document ? who chose to share that document.? You >> have an active attempt by the board to sanction that individual for >> engaging with the community who he is meant to serve.? You have a >> statement by the chair of the board that the CEO does not serve the >> community but instead serves the board. >> >> ? >> >> Effectively ? you have a board attempting to censor the CEO from >> engaging with this community ? in a bottom up organization that by >> legal representation during the IANA transition committed to the >> concepts of self determination of members and transparency and bottom >> up approach.? >> >> ? >> >> 1. That constitutes micro-management >> 2. In constitutes a total and utter failure of the board to adhere to >> the principles sworn to in the foundation of the organization in >> the original ICP2 >> 3. It shows a total disregard for the obligations set out in section >> 3 of the bylaws to keep members informed of all things pertinent >> to the company >> >> ? >> >> What I see here ? is nothing short of disgraceful ? and I find it >> absolutely shocking that any board member who has a shred of ethics ? >> would not have resigned in light of what is in those documents.? It is >> a slap in the face of this community ? and the entire global RIR >> system ? and I am disgusted and appalled.? I would say to Serge as a >> starting point ? if you have no shame ? resign ? now.? I would say to >> the chair for your abject failure ? resign ? now.? I would say to >> every member who consented to the final sections of that document ? >> resign ? now. >> >> ? >> >> Andrew >> >> ? >> >> ? >> >> *From:*Benjamin Ledoh >> *Sent:* Tuesday, 28 May 2019 15:01 >> *To:* Sander Steffann >> *Cc:* General Discussions of AFRINIC >> *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude >> >> ? >> >> Dear Sander, >> >> In your email to the community, you wrote >> >> > I am surprised at the level of micro-management that CEO Alan >> Barrett has to deal with. >> >> I have read the minutes and I could not see any trace that is related >> to ?micro-management?. Rather the discussion revolved around the >> procedure to publish the judgement, who should publish the judgement, >> and the issue of NDA. >> >> Could you please show me in the minutes the part that is dealing with >> the micro-management? >> >> Thank you, >> >> >> Benjiloh >> >> ? >> >> On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 12:50 PM Sander Steffann > > wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> I was just reading the board minutes at >> https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/2019-minutes/20190305-minutes.pdf >> and I am surprised at the level of micro-management that CEO Alan >> Barrett has to deal with. In those minutes both Alan and Seun >> Ojedeji seem to be reprimanded for being open and transparent to >> this community. The summary of those minutes show how the board >> has made it explicitly clear that the CEO is to have no >> responsibility anymore towards this community. >> >> Therefore I would like to explicitly and publicly express my >> gratitude to both Alan and Seun for their efforts to keep this >> community involved in Afrinic matters in an open and transparent >> way. I feel this is a strong requirement for keeping Afrinic >> respected and supported by both its members and its community. >> >> Sincerely, >> Sander >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > -- > Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa > mje at posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496 > For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > From geier at geier.ne.tz Tue May 28 13:38:06 2019 From: geier at geier.ne.tz (Frank Habicht) Date: Tue, 28 May 2019 16:38:06 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude In-Reply-To: <1775bf5e-215e-f4b4-f5d9-ff7990e8a4cb@geier.ne.tz> References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> <1775bf5e-215e-f4b4-f5d9-ff7990e8a4cb@geier.ne.tz> Message-ID: <3d132f50-3643-6ce1-1289-396bd645debd@geier.ne.tz> I had forgotten to mention: On 28/05/2019 13:49, Frank Habicht wrote: > In case this request does not work, I would ask any new board member of > AfriNIC to share the NDA document on social media or public mailing list > before signing it. Before they have to adhere to the NDA. any commitment to do that would probably gain the candidate some extra votes.... ;-) Frank From mirriamlauren at yahoo.com Tue May 28 14:24:24 2019 From: mirriamlauren at yahoo.com (Mirriam) Date: Tue, 28 May 2019 14:24:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude In-Reply-To: <3d132f50-3643-6ce1-1289-396bd645debd@geier.ne.tz> References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> <1775bf5e-215e-f4b4-f5d9-ff7990e8a4cb@geier.ne.tz> <3d132f50-3643-6ce1-1289-396bd645debd@geier.ne.tz> Message-ID: <284368994.5706582.1559053464801@mail.yahoo.com> Gentlemen, The "AGMM is a board prerogative and the board follows normal practices in dealing with it. Even if in the case of AfriNIC,? the CEO ends up being a full board member, instead of an ex-officio,? the CEO ought to respect separation between the board and management. In all cases the said document was finally released by the board for members and us the community to see as published on the AfriNIC website. Now members and the community are preparing for another successful? AGMM. Therefore nothing like this continuous attempt to divide the community, should? disturb the course of actions. See you all in Uganda,Mirriam Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 4:38 PM, Frank Habicht wrote: I had forgotten to mention: On 28/05/2019 13:49, Frank Habicht wrote: > In case this request does not work, I would ask any new board member of > AfriNIC to share the NDA document on social media or public mailing list > before signing it. Before they have to adhere to the NDA. any commitment to do that would probably gain the candidate some extra votes.... ;-) Frank _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mirriamlauren at yahoo.com Tue May 28 18:12:10 2019 From: mirriamlauren at yahoo.com (Mirriam) Date: Tue, 28 May 2019 18:12:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude In-Reply-To: <3d132f50-3643-6ce1-1289-396bd645debd@geier.ne.tz> References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> <1775bf5e-215e-f4b4-f5d9-ff7990e8a4cb@geier.ne.tz> <3d132f50-3643-6ce1-1289-396bd645debd@geier.ne.tz> Message-ID: <1927741912.5810590.1559067130740@mail.yahoo.com> Gentlemen, The "AGMM is a board prerogative and the board follows normal practices in dealing with it. Even if in the case of AfriNIC,? the CEO ends up being a full board member, instead of an ex-officio,? the CEO ought to respect separation between the board and management. In all cases the said document was finally released by the board for members and us the community to see as published on the AfriNIC website. Now members and the community are preparing? for another successful AGMM. Therefore nothing like this continuous attempt to divide the community, should? disturb the course of actions. See you all in Uganda,Mirriam. _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dewole at tinitop.com Wed May 29 09:32:26 2019 From: dewole at tinitop.com (Adewole Ajao) Date: Wed, 29 May 2019 10:32:26 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude In-Reply-To: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> Message-ID: My worry in all of this is that these board meeting minutes imply that an AFRINIC director (or directors) attempted to remove another director because he "violated the NDA" by sharing a public document with the community. I rush to conclude that it was an attempt to remove a director from the board because we have removed directors from the board in recent years solely on the grounds of NDA violation. With the board NDA still in place, chances of getting the full story from any of the parties involved are slim to none. I'm not sure that this community (and company) can ever get to a point of proper accountability/responsibility if so much is hidden under the cover of confidentiality. Is there a globally acceptable standard of board confidentiality for community-driven organizations that are responsible for managing public resources? Can we look at improving the confidentiality agreement that is used by the AFRINIC board? Although as per section 3.2.2 of its terms of reference at https://www.afrinic.net/govcom#tor the Governance Committee may not provide advice on specific internal proceedings of the board, section 3.1.4 puts the issue of NDA within scope as it can be argued that the NDA signing is part of the appointment process since it is the first thing a member does on appointment to the board. Failing that, perhaps the CEO can refer it under the provisions of section 3.1.7 so that a body outside the board can tackle the issue? In any case, it is best we look for a good way to get rid of this us-versus-them that seems to keep recurring between the AFRINIC board and the AFRINIC community on whose behalf it is elected to act. Getting rid of unnecessary secrecy may be a good way to start. Regards, Dewole. On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 1:51 PM Sander Steffann wrote: > Hello, > > I was just reading the board minutes at > https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/2019-minutes/20190305-minutes.pdf and I > am surprised at the level of micro-management that CEO Alan Barrett has to > deal with. In those minutes both Alan and Seun Ojedeji seem to be > reprimanded for being open and transparent to this community. The summary > of those minutes show how the board has made it explicitly clear that the > CEO is to have no responsibility anymore towards this community. > > Therefore I would like to explicitly and publicly express my gratitude to > both Alan and Seun for their efforts to keep this community involved in > Afrinic matters in an open and transparent way. I feel this is a strong > requirement for keeping Afrinic respected and supported by both its members > and its community. > > Sincerely, > Sander > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 1:51 PM Sander Steffann wrote: > Hello, > > I was just reading the board minutes at > https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/2019-minutes/20190305-minutes.pdf and I > am surprised at the level of micro-management that CEO Alan Barrett has to > deal with. In those minutes both Alan and Seun Ojedeji seem to be > reprimanded for being open and transparent to this community. The summary > of those minutes show how the board has made it explicitly clear that the > CEO is to have no responsibility anymore towards this community. > > Therefore I would like to explicitly and publicly express my gratitude to > both Alan and Seun for their efforts to keep this community involved in > Afrinic matters in an open and transparent way. I feel this is a strong > requirement for keeping Afrinic respected and supported by both its members > and its community. > > Sincerely, > Sander > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dndannang at gmail.com Wed May 29 10:16:58 2019 From: dndannang at gmail.com (DANIEL NANGHAKA) Date: Wed, 29 May 2019 13:16:58 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude In-Reply-To: References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> Message-ID: I think the mandate of AFRINIC has to be visited. I am for Accountable leadership and transparency. The community deserves accountability to what is happening. If the documents are for public domain, then nothing should be hidden. ? On Wed, 29 May 2019 at 12:33, Adewole Ajao wrote: > My worry in all of this is that these board meeting minutes imply that an > AFRINIC director (or directors) attempted to remove another director > because he "violated the NDA" by sharing a public document with the > community. > > I rush to conclude that it was an attempt to remove a director from the > board because we have removed directors from the board in recent years > solely on the grounds of NDA violation. With the board NDA still in place, > chances of getting the full story from any of the parties involved are slim > to none. I'm not sure that this community (and company) can ever get to a > point of proper accountability/responsibility if so much is hidden under > the cover of confidentiality. > > Is there a globally acceptable standard of board confidentiality for > community-driven organizations that are responsible for managing public > resources? Can we look at improving the confidentiality agreement that is > used by the AFRINIC board? Although as per section 3.2.2 of its terms of > reference at https://www.afrinic.net/govcom#tor the Governance Committee > may not provide advice on specific internal proceedings of the board, > section 3.1.4 puts the issue of NDA within scope as it can be argued that > the NDA signing is part of the appointment process since it is the first > thing a member does on appointment to the board. Failing that, perhaps the > CEO can refer it under the provisions of section 3.1.7 so that a body > outside the board can tackle the issue? > > In any case, it is best we look for a good way to get rid of this > us-versus-them that seems to keep recurring between the AFRINIC board and > the AFRINIC community on whose behalf it is elected to act. Getting rid of > unnecessary secrecy may be a good way to start. > > Regards, > Dewole. > > On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 1:51 PM Sander Steffann > wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> I was just reading the board minutes at >> https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/2019-minutes/20190305-minutes.pdf and I >> am surprised at the level of micro-management that CEO Alan Barrett has to >> deal with. In those minutes both Alan and Seun Ojedeji seem to be >> reprimanded for being open and transparent to this community. The summary >> of those minutes show how the board has made it explicitly clear that the >> CEO is to have no responsibility anymore towards this community. >> >> Therefore I would like to explicitly and publicly express my gratitude to >> both Alan and Seun for their efforts to keep this community involved in >> Afrinic matters in an open and transparent way. I feel this is a strong >> requirement for keeping Afrinic respected and supported by both its members >> and its community. >> >> Sincerely, >> Sander >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 1:51 PM Sander Steffann > wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> I was just reading the board minutes at >> https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/2019-minutes/20190305-minutes.pdf and I >> am surprised at the level of micro-management that CEO Alan Barrett has to >> deal with. In those minutes both Alan and Seun Ojedeji seem to be >> reprimanded for being open and transparent to this community. The summary >> of those minutes show how the board has made it explicitly clear that the >> CEO is to have no responsibility anymore towards this community. >> >> Therefore I would like to explicitly and publicly express my gratitude to >> both Alan and Seun for their efforts to keep this community involved in >> Afrinic matters in an open and transparent way. I feel this is a strong >> requirement for keeping Afrinic respected and supported by both its members >> and its community. >> >> Sincerely, >> Sander >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -- Nanghaka Daniel K. Executive Director - ILICIT Africa/ Chair - Outreach and Engagement WG (ICANN At-Large)/ former Chair - FOSSFA / Geo4Africa Lead / Organising Team - FOSS4G2018 Mobile +256 772 898298 (Uganda) Skype: daniel.nanghaka ----------------------------------------- *"Working for Africa" * ----------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From silber.mike at gmail.com Wed May 29 15:02:57 2019 From: silber.mike at gmail.com (Mike Silber) Date: Wed, 29 May 2019 17:02:57 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude In-Reply-To: References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> Message-ID: Hi Adewole This is a useful resource - though many of the references are South African legal requirements, they are similar to many others found elsewhere. http://www.governance.org.za/wp-content/uploads/NPO-Code-Web-Version.pdf I am not familiar with any "globally acceptable standard of board confidentiality for community-driven organizations that are responsible for managing public resources?. I think the best example is ICANN (yeah - it is kind of expected I WOULD say that). However, after the various accountability and transparency changes that have happened - I do think that ICANN is a useful example https://www.icann.org/resources/accountability (as well as the new bylaws and the document disclosure policy - and the approach of proactively relating most information and not relying on DIDP requests). Critical is not just policies and standards - but actual practices that demonstrate a commitment to transparency. I think ICANN has vastly improved its practices - but there is always room for improvement. Transparency International has some great resources - but very focussed on corruption - so many are not that relevant: https://www.transparency.org A number of the Corporate Governance Codes do deal with transparency and confidentiality. While most regard transparency as positive - the focus of most codes is largely on commercial and specifically listed companies. In listed companies - information disclosure follows a regulated approach to avoid deception of the stock market and is not really analogous to a not for profit / community environment. I think one of the biggest challenges is that AfriNIC has not found a creative way of dealing with the difference between resource members and the legal corporate members under Mauritian law (a position currently occupied by the board). So Mirriam was not wrong to say that the AGMM is at the pleasure of our directors and we as a community have very few rights in that regard. We have handed our mandate to a board and those minutes seem to indicate that some are not worthy of our trust. My sincere appreciation to those who are deserving of our trust! I know that APNIC and ARIN had an almost identical corporate structuring concerns and they both found ways to deal with it to ensure that the power is in the hands of the community and not the board. I hope AfriNIC is willing to listen to our discontent and actually be creative about this much debated issue. Regards Mike > On 29 May 2019, at 11:32, Adewole Ajao wrote: > > My worry in all of this is that these board meeting minutes imply that an AFRINIC director (or directors) attempted to remove another director because he "violated the NDA" by sharing a public document with the community. > > I rush to conclude that it was an attempt to remove a director from the board because we have removed directors from the board in recent years solely on the grounds of NDA violation. With the board NDA still in place, chances of getting the full story from any of the parties involved are slim to none. I'm not sure that this community (and company) can ever get to a point of proper accountability/responsibility if so much is hidden under the cover of confidentiality. > > Is there a globally acceptable standard of board confidentiality for community-driven organizations that are responsible for managing public resources? Can we look at improving the confidentiality agreement that is used by the AFRINIC board? Although as per section 3.2.2 of its terms of reference at https://www.afrinic.net/govcom#tor the Governance Committee may not provide advice on specific internal proceedings of the board, section 3.1.4 puts the issue of NDA within scope as it can be argued that the NDA signing is part of the appointment process since it is the first thing a member does on appointment to the board. Failing that, perhaps the CEO can refer it under the provisions of section 3.1.7 so that a body outside the board can tackle the issue? > > In any case, it is best we look for a good way to get rid of this us-versus-them that seems to keep recurring between the AFRINIC board and the AFRINIC community on whose behalf it is elected to act. Getting rid of unnecessary secrecy may be a good way to start. > > Regards, > Dewole. > > On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 1:51 PM Sander Steffann > wrote: > Hello, > > I was just reading the board minutes at https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/2019-minutes/20190305-minutes.pdf and I am surprised at the level of micro-management that CEO Alan Barrett has to deal with. In those minutes both Alan and Seun Ojedeji seem to be reprimanded for being open and transparent to this community. The summary of those minutes show how the board has made it explicitly clear that the CEO is to have no responsibility anymore towards this community. > > Therefore I would like to explicitly and publicly express my gratitude to both Alan and Seun for their efforts to keep this community involved in Afrinic matters in an open and transparent way. I feel this is a strong requirement for keeping Afrinic respected and supported by both its members and its community. > > Sincerely, > Sander > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 1:51 PM Sander Steffann > wrote: > Hello, > > I was just reading the board minutes at https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/2019-minutes/20190305-minutes.pdf and I am surprised at the level of micro-management that CEO Alan Barrett has to deal with. In those minutes both Alan and Seun Ojedeji seem to be reprimanded for being open and transparent to this community. The summary of those minutes show how the board has made it explicitly clear that the CEO is to have no responsibility anymore towards this community. > > Therefore I would like to explicitly and publicly express my gratitude to both Alan and Seun for their efforts to keep this community involved in Afrinic matters in an open and transparent way. I feel this is a strong requirement for keeping Afrinic respected and supported by both its members and its community. > > Sincerely, > Sander > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sm+af at afrinic.net Wed May 29 18:40:43 2019 From: sm+af at afrinic.net (S. Moonesamy) Date: Wed, 29 May 2019 11:40:43 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Stakeholder involvement (was: Gratitude) In-Reply-To: References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20190529092305.0f20c058@elandnews.com> Dear Dewole, At 02:32 AM 29-05-2019, Adewole Ajao wrote: >Is there a globally acceptable standard of board confidentiality for >community-driven organizations that are responsible for managing >public resources? Can we look at improving the confidentiality >agreement that is used by the AFRINIC board? Although as There isn't a global standard of board confidentiality for not-for-profit entities which manage public resources. Afrinic Ltd is a legal entity which operates on a not-for-profit basis. Such entities sometimes adhere to a code of corporate governance. The code may, among other things, provide guidance about the standard of confidentiality for the board members of entity. There are also the relevant laws which a board member may have to be familiar with. If I am not mistaken, the matter under discussion may be related to stakeholder involvement. Is the community one of the stakeholders? If the answer to that is yes, where can it be involved? Would it be through this mailing list? Which information would the community like to have? There is, for example, a report of financial performance for the first quarter of 2019 [1]. Is the published information adequate? Regards, S. Moonesamy 1. https://www.afrinic.net/finance/2019 From benjamin.ledoh at gmail.com Wed May 29 19:10:41 2019 From: benjamin.ledoh at gmail.com (Benjamin Ledoh) Date: Wed, 29 May 2019 19:10:41 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude In-Reply-To: <85e8a672-0dde-4404-44c9-fe4bb6561c2a@posix.co.za> References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> <03398937-1706-4D9F-B47B-C18DA8D16F38@steffann.nl> <85e8a672-0dde-4404-44c9-fe4bb6561c2a@posix.co.za> Message-ID: Dear Sander and Mark, Yesterday, following your submissions, I asked you one question each and it seems to me that you have not read it or forgotten about it. They are bellow: To Sander -> Can you prove that "all responsibility and autonomy of the CEO has been taken away"? To Mark -> Has the CEO told you that he resigned because "all responsibility and autonomy .... has been taken away"? Please could please answer them? Thanks Benjiloh On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 1:08 PM Mark Elkins wrote: > > On 2019/05/28 14:56, Benjamin Ledoh wrote: > > Dear Sander, > > You could not point out the issue of micromanagement in the minutes and > moreover, you have made another mistake. > > Can you prove that "all responsibility and autonomy of the CEO has been > taken away"? > > ... and you then wonder why the CEO has resigned? > > > > Thanks > > > Benjiloh > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, May 28, 2019 at 12:31 PM Sander Steffann > wrote: > >> Hello Benjamin, >> >> > In your email to the community, you wrote >> > >> > > I am surprised at the level of micro-management that CEO Alan Barrett >> has to deal with. >> > >> > I have read the minutes and I could not see any trace that is related >> to ?micro-management?. Rather the discussion revolved around the procedure >> to publish the judgement, who should publish the judgement, and the issue >> of NDA. >> > >> > Could you please show me in the minutes the part that is dealing with >> the micro-management? >> >> The fact that all responsibility and autonomy of the CEO has been taken >> away is the textbook example of micro management... >> >> Cheers, >> Sander >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > -- > Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africamje at posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496 > For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Wed May 29 19:34:14 2019 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Wed, 29 May 2019 12:34:14 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude In-Reply-To: References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> Message-ID: +1? Well said, Dewole!! Owen > On May 29, 2019, at 2:32 AM, Adewole Ajao wrote: > > My worry in all of this is that these board meeting minutes imply that an AFRINIC director (or directors) attempted to remove another director because he "violated the NDA" by sharing a public document with the community. > > I rush to conclude that it was an attempt to remove a director from the board because we have removed directors from the board in recent years solely on the grounds of NDA violation. With the board NDA still in place, chances of getting the full story from any of the parties involved are slim to none. I'm not sure that this community (and company) can ever get to a point of proper accountability/responsibility if so much is hidden under the cover of confidentiality. > > Is there a globally acceptable standard of board confidentiality for community-driven organizations that are responsible for managing public resources? Can we look at improving the confidentiality agreement that is used by the AFRINIC board? Although as per section 3.2.2 of its terms of reference at https://www.afrinic.net/govcom#tor the Governance Committee may not provide advice on specific internal proceedings of the board, section 3.1.4 puts the issue of NDA within scope as it can be argued that the NDA signing is part of the appointment process since it is the first thing a member does on appointment to the board. Failing that, perhaps the CEO can refer it under the provisions of section 3.1.7 so that a body outside the board can tackle the issue? > > In any case, it is best we look for a good way to get rid of this us-versus-them that seems to keep recurring between the AFRINIC board and the AFRINIC community on whose behalf it is elected to act. Getting rid of unnecessary secrecy may be a good way to start. > > Regards, > Dewole. > > On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 1:51 PM Sander Steffann > wrote: > Hello, > > I was just reading the board minutes at https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/2019-minutes/20190305-minutes.pdf and I am surprised at the level of micro-management that CEO Alan Barrett has to deal with. In those minutes both Alan and Seun Ojedeji seem to be reprimanded for being open and transparent to this community. The summary of those minutes show how the board has made it explicitly clear that the CEO is to have no responsibility anymore towards this community. > > Therefore I would like to explicitly and publicly express my gratitude to both Alan and Seun for their efforts to keep this community involved in Afrinic matters in an open and transparent way. I feel this is a strong requirement for keeping Afrinic respected and supported by both its members and its community. > > Sincerely, > Sander > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 1:51 PM Sander Steffann > wrote: > Hello, > > I was just reading the board minutes at https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/2019-minutes/20190305-minutes.pdf and I am surprised at the level of micro-management that CEO Alan Barrett has to deal with. In those minutes both Alan and Seun Ojedeji seem to be reprimanded for being open and transparent to this community. The summary of those minutes show how the board has made it explicitly clear that the CEO is to have no responsibility anymore towards this community. > > Therefore I would like to explicitly and publicly express my gratitude to both Alan and Seun for their efforts to keep this community involved in Afrinic matters in an open and transparent way. I feel this is a strong requirement for keeping Afrinic respected and supported by both its members and its community. > > Sincerely, > Sander > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From musab.isah at afrinic.net Thu May 30 06:07:19 2019 From: musab.isah at afrinic.net (Musab Isah) Date: Thu, 30 May 2019 10:07:19 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AIS 19 Internet Measurements Workshop Message-ID: {Apologies for cross-posting} Dear colleagues, You are invited to AFRINIC's Internet Measurements Workshop scheduled to take place at Africa Internet Summit (AIS) 2019 in Kampala, Uganda. The two-day workshop will hold in the Lake Room, Sheraton Kampala Hotel, on 15th and 16th of June 2019 between 09:00 and 17:30. The workshop aims to provide participants with hands-on training on tools and techniques for conducting large-scale/distributed Internet measurements. The hands-on training will focus on Ripe Atlas and MLAB platforms, and will be facilitated by researchers and engineers from AFRINIC, RIPE NCC, and Measurement Lab (MLAB). There will also be presentations and discussions on status of Internet measurement in Africa as well talks related to Censorship, web and mobile broadband measurements. The workshop will provide opportunities to discuss and establish collaborations around Internet measurements research in Africa. The workshop agenda is detailed below: Day 1 9.00 - 10.30: - Introduction - State of the Internet Measurement in Africa (Musab Isah - AFRINIC) - Measuring Web Latency & Rendering performance: Observations from large-scale measurement (Alemnew Asrese - Aalto University) - On the potential of using Google AMP to promote local content in Africa (Amreesh Phokeer - AFRINIC) 10:30 - 11:00: Tea Break 11.00 - 12.30: RIPE Atlas Tutorial (Jasper, Gerardo - RIPE NCC) 12:30 - 14:00: Lunch Break 14.00 - 15.30: RIPE Atlas Hands-on 15:30 - 16:00: Tea Break 16.00 - 17.30: RIPE Atlas Hands-on Day 2 9.00 - 10.30 - Presentation by CIPESA - Internet shutdown in Benin - an Internet measurement perspective (Yazid Akanho) - Measuring Mobile Broadband (Ahmed Elmokashfi - Simula Research Laboratory) 10:30 - 11:00: Tea Break 11.00 - 12.30: Measurement Lab Tutorial (Georgia Bullen - MLAB) 12:30 - 14:00: Lunch Break 14.00 - 15.30: Measurement Lab Hands-on 15:30 - 16:00: Tea Break 16.00 - 17.30: Preparation for the DNS Measurement hackathon (Willem Toorop - NLnet Labs) The agenda is also available online via the link https://docs.google.com/document/d/13ZXHCAeqtOX1eXkuHwlbPxAzpp6gjer3SK1JbB6p8Q4/edit?ts=5cde6119# If you plan to attend the workshop, kindly register via the following link http://bit.ly/ais2019-imw. Remote participation is also available via https://zoom.us/j/227241801. We look forward to meeting you in Uganda. Kind regards, Musab Isah Research Engineer, African Network Information Centre, Ebene, Mauritius Tel: +230 403 5100 From sm+af at afrinic.net Thu May 30 09:39:17 2019 From: sm+af at afrinic.net (S. Moonesamy) Date: Thu, 30 May 2019 02:39:17 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude (off-topic) In-Reply-To: References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20190530011306.0ea1c8b0@elandnews.com> Dear Mike, At 08:02 AM 29-05-2019, Mike Silber wrote: >This is a useful resource - though many of the references are South >African legal requirements, they are similar to many others found elsewhere. Thank you for sharing those requirements. >I think one of the biggest challenges is that AfriNIC has not found >a creative way of dealing with the difference between resource >members and the legal corporate members under Mauritian law (a >position currently occupied by the board). > So [removed] was not wrong to say that the AGMM is at the pleasure > of our directors and we as a community have very few rights in that > regard. We have handed our mandate to a I was reminded [1] of AFPUB-2018-GEN-001-DRAFT02 when I read the above. I spent some time in December 2018 discussing about the legal aspects as it was difficult to understand the difference(s) mentioned above. In my opinion, there would be a compliance issue as Article 11.1 of the Constitution is applicable for an AGMM. Regards, S. Moonesamy 1. https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2019/009026.html From silber.mike at gmail.com Thu May 30 10:16:01 2019 From: silber.mike at gmail.com (Mike Silber) Date: Thu, 30 May 2019 12:16:01 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude (off-topic) In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20190530011306.0ea1c8b0@elandnews.com> References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> <6.2.5.6.2.20190530011306.0ea1c8b0@elandnews.com> Message-ID: <9295CBB7-D5A7-4366-99B2-6AAC668740D7@gmail.com> Hi SM > On 30 May 2019, at 11:39, S. Moonesamy wrote: > > I was reminded [1] of AFPUB-2018-GEN-001-DRAFT02 when I read the above. > > I spent some time in December 2018 discussing about the legal aspects as it was difficult to understand the difference(s) mentioned above. In my opinion, there would be a compliance issue as Article 11.1 of the Constitution is applicable for an AGMM. > As you well know, the Members include Registered Members, Resource Members and Associate Members, however only the Registered Members (i.e. the Directors) have any authority under the Mauritian Companies Act and the Resource Members and Associate Members have no legal standing under that Act. Regards Mike From sm+af at afrinic.net Thu May 30 12:04:35 2019 From: sm+af at afrinic.net (S. Moonesamy) Date: Thu, 30 May 2019 05:04:35 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude (off-topic) In-Reply-To: <9295CBB7-D5A7-4366-99B2-6AAC668740D7@gmail.com> References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> <6.2.5.6.2.20190530011306.0ea1c8b0@elandnews.com> <9295CBB7-D5A7-4366-99B2-6AAC668740D7@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20190530033643.119934c8@elandnews.com> Dear Mike, At 03:16 AM 30-05-2019, Mike Silber wrote: >As you well know, the Members include Registered Members, Resource >Members and Associate Members, however only the Registered Members >(i.e. the Directors) have any authority under the Mauritian >Companies Act and the Resource Members and Associate Members have no >legal standing under that Act. I recall that there were comments about the above over the years. There was an accountability assessment in 2015. There was a meeting in November 2016 during which the Members were requested to decide on improvements to the RIR accountability mechanisms. One or more proposals which was, in my opinion, in the interests of Members was rejected. I would have to hire a lawyer to get a good view of what is mentioned above as it is a complex matter. In my opinion legal standing would depend on common law. Regards, S. Moonesamy From silber.mike at gmail.com Thu May 30 11:19:10 2019 From: silber.mike at gmail.com (Mike Silber) Date: Thu, 30 May 2019 13:19:10 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude (off-topic) In-Reply-To: References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> <6.2.5.6.2.20190530011306.0ea1c8b0@elandnews.com> <9295CBB7-D5A7-4366-99B2-6AAC668740D7@gmail.com> Message-ID: My interpretation (as a non-Mauritian lawyer) that the court was simply upholding AfriNIC?s conferral of membership on resource members in the bylaws. It was not inferring or conferring anything as I read it. > On 30 May 2019, at 13:09, Andrew Alston wrote: > > Mike, > > As a matter of interest ? when the court ruled in the last case ? saying that quorum was made up of members of X number, irrespective of them being registered, resource or otherwise. Do you from a legal perspective believe that ruling could be used to claim that the court has inferred status on other members, or is that not the case? I?m curious to know the answer from a legal perspective. > > Andrew > > > From: Mike Silber > Sent: Thursday, 30 May 2019 13:16 > To: S. Moonesamy > Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude (off-topic) > > Hi SM > > > On 30 May 2019, at 11:39, S. Moonesamy > wrote: > > > > > I was reminded [1] of AFPUB-2018-GEN-001-DRAFT02 when I read the above. > > > > I spent some time in December 2018 discussing about the legal aspects as it was difficult to understand the difference(s) mentioned above. In my opinion, there would be a compliance issue as Article 11.1 of the Constitution is applicable for an AGMM. > > > As you well know, the Members include Registered Members, Resource Members and Associate Members, however only the Registered Members (i.e. the Directors) have any authority under the Mauritian Companies Act and the Resource Members and Associate Members have no legal standing under that Act. > > Regards > > Mike > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com Thu May 30 17:13:47 2019 From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston) Date: Thu, 30 May 2019 17:13:47 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude (off-topic) In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20190530033643.119934c8@elandnews.com> References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> <6.2.5.6.2.20190530011306.0ea1c8b0@elandnews.com> <9295CBB7-D5A7-4366-99B2-6AAC668740D7@gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20190530033643.119934c8@elandnews.com> Message-ID: <5091B6A8-2612-4725-A6B4-547064526B05@liquidtelecom.com> Is the board prepared to share the full unredacted accountability assessment with the community ? if it has not already been done (I don?t recall it have being done so) After all ? if there is a report about how accountable Afrinic is to its members ? I think it would be good for the members at least ? and the wider community possibly to see this report Andrew From: "S. Moonesamy" Date: Thursday, 30 May 2019 at 18:16 To: Mike Silber , "community-discuss at afrinic.net" Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude (off-topic) Dear Mike, At 03:16 AM 30-05-2019, Mike Silber wrote: >As you well know, the Members include Registered Members, Resource >Members and Associate Members, however only the Registered Members >(i.e. the Directors) have any authority under the Mauritian >Companies Act and the Resource Members and Associate Members have no >legal standing under that Act. I recall that there were comments about the above over the years. There was an accountability assessment in 2015. There was a meeting in November 2016 during which the Members were requested to decide on improvements to the RIR accountability mechanisms. One or more proposals which was, in my opinion, in the interests of Members was rejected. I would have to hire a lawyer to get a good view of what is mentioned above as it is a complex matter. In my opinion legal standing would depend on common law. Regards, S. Moonesamy _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com Thu May 30 17:21:40 2019 From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston) Date: Thu, 30 May 2019 17:21:40 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude (off-topic) In-Reply-To: <5091B6A8-2612-4725-A6B4-547064526B05@liquidtelecom.com> References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> <6.2.5.6.2.20190530011306.0ea1c8b0@elandnews.com> <9295CBB7-D5A7-4366-99B2-6AAC668740D7@gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20190530033643.119934c8@elandnews.com> <5091B6A8-2612-4725-A6B4-547064526B05@liquidtelecom.com> Message-ID: <2DA7926E-CAB0-4D4D-A13D-15E2ADCAE455@liquidtelecom.com> Sorry if it?s received twice, got a weird message the first time which tells me it might not have been delivered. Is the board prepared to share the full unredacted accountability assessment with the community ? if it has not already been done (I don?t recall it have being done so) After all ? if there is a report about how accountable Afrinic is to its members ? I think it would be good for the members at least ? and the wider community possibly to see this report Andrew From: "S. Moonesamy" Date: Thursday, 30 May 2019 at 18:16 To: Mike Silber , "community-discuss at afrinic.net" Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude (off-topic) Dear Mike, At 03:16 AM 30-05-2019, Mike Silber wrote: >As you well know, the Members include Registered Members, Resource >Members and Associate Members, however only the Registered Members >(i.e. the Directors) have any authority under the Mauritian >Companies Act and the Resource Members and Associate Members have no >legal standing under that Act. I recall that there were comments about the above over the years. There was an accountability assessment in 2015. There was a meeting in November 2016 during which the Members were requested to decide on improvements to the RIR accountability mechanisms. One or more proposals which was, in my opinion, in the interests of Members was rejected. I would have to hire a lawyer to get a good view of what is mentioned above as it is a complex matter. In my opinion legal standing would depend on common law. Regards, S. Moonesamy _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sm+af at afrinic.net Thu May 30 18:23:09 2019 From: sm+af at afrinic.net (S. Moonesamy) Date: Thu, 30 May 2019 11:23:09 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude (off-topic) In-Reply-To: <5091B6A8-2612-4725-A6B4-547064526B05@liquidtelecom.com> References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> <6.2.5.6.2.20190530011306.0ea1c8b0@elandnews.com> <9295CBB7-D5A7-4366-99B2-6AAC668740D7@gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20190530033643.119934c8@elandnews.com> <5091B6A8-2612-4725-A6B4-547064526B05@liquidtelecom.com> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20190530103217.0d1f75e8@elandnews.com> Dear Andrew, At 10:13 AM 30-05-2019, Andrew Alston wrote: >Is the board prepared to share the full unredacted accountability >assessment with the community if it has not already been done (I >don't recall it have being done so) Thank you for contacting me. In my opinion, it may possible to bring the request to the attention of the Board as there was a decision about requests from Resource Members in 2017. I don't know what the Board will decide as a Board is usually more than one member's opinion. There is a mention of a public summary in the minutes of May 2016. I found the following: http://r.elandsys.com/r/40408 Regards, S. Moonesamy From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com Fri May 31 07:21:14 2019 From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston) Date: Fri, 31 May 2019 07:21:14 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude In-Reply-To: <41c382a1-8acc-b521-8480-de0e84272748@geier.ne.tz> References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> <8671312b-793a-861f-31f1-6d9d682fb893@posix.co.za> <41c382a1-8acc-b521-8480-de0e84272748@geier.ne.tz> Message-ID: Can we conclude from the total lack of response to this email that in fact ? there is no one willing to step up and say they support the current chair? Either member or board member? Andrew From: Frank Habicht Sent: Tuesday, 28 May 2019 16:36 To: community-discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude Hi, reading https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/2018-minutes/20181231-minutes.pdf especially: SO stated that he had requested via email for the Board to announce the status of the AGMM quorum court case. He stated that the Chair had refused to do so, and the Chair had alleged that SO was looking for votes. SO had requested the Chair to withdraw the statement. The Chair stated that the Board had discussed the matter, and would communicate to the community at an appropriate time; based on that the Chair did not see a need to withdraw. SO again requested the Chair to withdraw the allegation that SO was looking for votes, and the Chair again refused to withdraw. I conclude that the Chair actively tried to suppress information/updates from AfriNIC membership. He apparently had no good reason and was using the allegation of another board member "looking for votes" as only argument. Which member of AfriNIC wants to have such a chair at the AfriNIC board? Please identify yourselves positively. PS: I would also wish to know which other board members supported this decision by the chair. Thanks, Frank On 28/05/2019 16:18, Mark Elkins wrote: > Thinking about the CEO, reading the minutes ( > https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/2019-minutes/20190305-minutes.pdf ) - I > think the best way out for the AfriNIC community is if the whole board > resigns - just leave the CEO. Andrew has got it right. > > On 2019/05/28 14:36, Andrew Alston wrote: >> >> Benjamin, >> >> >> >> Let?s see ? you have a public document ? a document that is clearly >> and totally in the public domain. You have an individual who was a >> named party in that document ? who chose to share that document. You >> have an active attempt by the board to sanction that individual for >> engaging with the community who he is meant to serve. You have a >> statement by the chair of the board that the CEO does not serve the >> community but instead serves the board. >> >> >> >> Effectively ? you have a board attempting to censor the CEO from >> engaging with this community ? in a bottom up organization that by >> legal representation during the IANA transition committed to the >> concepts of self determination of members and transparency and bottom >> up approach. >> >> >> >> 1. That constitutes micro-management >> 2. In constitutes a total and utter failure of the board to adhere to >> the principles sworn to in the foundation of the organization in >> the original ICP2 >> 3. It shows a total disregard for the obligations set out in section >> 3 of the bylaws to keep members informed of all things pertinent >> to the company >> >> >> >> What I see here ? is nothing short of disgraceful ? and I find it >> absolutely shocking that any board member who has a shred of ethics ? >> would not have resigned in light of what is in those documents. It is >> a slap in the face of this community ? and the entire global RIR >> system ? and I am disgusted and appalled. I would say to Serge as a >> starting point ? if you have no shame ? resign ? now. I would say to >> the chair for your abject failure ? resign ? now. I would say to >> every member who consented to the final sections of that document ? >> resign ? now. >> >> >> >> Andrew >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:*Benjamin Ledoh > >> *Sent:* Tuesday, 28 May 2019 15:01 >> *To:* Sander Steffann > >> *Cc:* General Discussions of AFRINIC > >> *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude >> >> >> >> Dear Sander, >> >> In your email to the community, you wrote >> >> > I am surprised at the level of micro-management that CEO Alan >> Barrett has to deal with. >> >> I have read the minutes and I could not see any trace that is related >> to ?micro-management?. Rather the discussion revolved around the >> procedure to publish the judgement, who should publish the judgement, >> and the issue of NDA. >> >> Could you please show me in the minutes the part that is dealing with >> the micro-management? >> >> Thank you, >> >> >> Benjiloh >> >> >> >> On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 12:50 PM Sander Steffann >> > wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> I was just reading the board minutes at >> https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/2019-minutes/20190305-minutes.pdf >> and I am surprised at the level of micro-management that CEO Alan >> Barrett has to deal with. In those minutes both Alan and Seun >> Ojedeji seem to be reprimanded for being open and transparent to >> this community. The summary of those minutes show how the board >> has made it explicitly clear that the CEO is to have no >> responsibility anymore towards this community. >> >> Therefore I would like to explicitly and publicly express my >> gratitude to both Alan and Seun for their efforts to keep this >> community involved in Afrinic matters in an open and transparent >> way. I feel this is a strong requirement for keeping Afrinic >> respected and supported by both its members and its community. >> >> Sincerely, >> Sander >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > -- > Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa > mje at posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496 > For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mirriamlauren at yahoo.com Fri May 31 08:00:59 2019 From: mirriamlauren at yahoo.com (Mirriam) Date: Fri, 31 May 2019 08:00:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude In-Reply-To: References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> <8671312b-793a-861f-31f1-6d9d682fb893@posix.co.za> <41c382a1-8acc-b521-8480-de0e84272748@geier.ne.tz> Message-ID: <1406295415.7070787.1559289660004@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Andrew I think you are now trolling and If I was you, I wouldn't put words into other people's (majority community) mouths. Maybe people are not interested in responding since everyone (community and sponsors alike) is busy preparing for the upcoming AIS event in a couple of weeks as per attached.? Mirriam. _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: IMG-20190531-WA0001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 91020 bytes Desc: not available URL: From walu.john at gmail.com Fri May 31 08:05:33 2019 From: walu.john at gmail.com (John Walu) Date: Fri, 31 May 2019 11:05:33 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude In-Reply-To: References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> <8671312b-793a-861f-31f1-6d9d682fb893@posix.co.za> <41c382a1-8acc-b521-8480-de0e84272748@geier.ne.tz> Message-ID: @Andrew I thot AfriNIC has a well-established mechanism for supporting or not supporting the current chair. I am sure you recall this used to happen every year after new members join the board and a vote is called to either extend or rotate the chairman position. Am not sure if there has been a change this process and now the voting of the Chair by board members happens on email ;-) That said, I had not bothered to read the board minutes under discussion but after reading them, I am a bit surprised that 4years later, AfriNIC board is still obsessed with 'information control' strategies when they should be concerned with 'information sharing' strategies. Strictly speaking, Afrinic, as a community network has really nothing worth hiding (other than as per Data Protection Act/Regulations). Furthermore trying to hide or suppress what is already a public document, does not send a good signal to the community. Dr. Bope, our Chairman, I am sure you can actually move beyond this and focus the board in more progressive endeavors. best regards and all the best. walu. On Fri, May 31, 2019 at 10:22 AM Andrew Alston < Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com> wrote: > Can we conclude from the total lack of response to this email that in > fact ? there is no one willing to step up and say they support the current > chair? Either member or board member? > > > > Andrew > > > > *From:* Frank Habicht > *Sent:* Tuesday, 28 May 2019 16:36 > *To:* community-discuss at afrinic.net > *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude > > > > Hi, > > reading > https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/2018-minutes/20181231-minutes.pdf > > especially: > > SO stated that he had requested via email for the Board to announce the > status of the AGMM quorum court case. He stated that the Chair had > refused to do so, and the Chair had alleged that SO was looking for > votes. SO had requested the Chair to withdraw the statement. The Chair > stated that the Board had discussed the matter, and would communicate to > the community at an appropriate time; based on that the Chair did not > see a need to withdraw. SO again requested the Chair to withdraw the > allegation that SO was looking for votes, and the Chair again refused to > withdraw. > > > I conclude that the Chair actively tried to suppress information/updates > from AfriNIC membership. He apparently had no good reason and was using > the allegation of another board member "looking for votes" as only > argument. > > Which member of AfriNIC wants to have such a chair at the AfriNIC board? > Please identify yourselves positively. > > PS: I would also wish to know which other board members supported this > decision by the chair. > > Thanks, > Frank > > > > On 28/05/2019 16:18, Mark Elkins wrote: > > Thinking about the CEO, reading the minutes ( > > https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/2019-minutes/20190305-minutes.pdf ) - I > > think the best way out for the AfriNIC community is if the whole board > > resigns - just leave the CEO. Andrew has got it right. > > > > On 2019/05/28 14:36, Andrew Alston wrote: > >> > >> Benjamin, > >> > >> > >> > >> Let?s see ? you have a public document ? a document that is clearly > >> and totally in the public domain. You have an individual who was a > >> named party in that document ? who chose to share that document. You > >> have an active attempt by the board to sanction that individual for > >> engaging with the community who he is meant to serve. You have a > >> statement by the chair of the board that the CEO does not serve the > >> community but instead serves the board. > >> > >> > >> > >> Effectively ? you have a board attempting to censor the CEO from > >> engaging with this community ? in a bottom up organization that by > >> legal representation during the IANA transition committed to the > >> concepts of self determination of members and transparency and bottom > >> up approach. > >> > >> > >> > >> 1. That constitutes micro-management > >> 2. In constitutes a total and utter failure of the board to adhere to > >> the principles sworn to in the foundation of the organization in > >> the original ICP2 > >> 3. It shows a total disregard for the obligations set out in section > >> 3 of the bylaws to keep members informed of all things pertinent > >> to the company > >> > >> > >> > >> What I see here ? is nothing short of disgraceful ? and I find it > >> absolutely shocking that any board member who has a shred of ethics ? > >> would not have resigned in light of what is in those documents. It is > >> a slap in the face of this community ? and the entire global RIR > >> system ? and I am disgusted and appalled. I would say to Serge as a > >> starting point ? if you have no shame ? resign ? now. I would say to > >> the chair for your abject failure ? resign ? now. I would say to > >> every member who consented to the final sections of that document ? > >> resign ? now. > >> > >> > >> > >> Andrew > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> *From:*Benjamin Ledoh > >> *Sent:* Tuesday, 28 May 2019 15:01 > >> *To:* Sander Steffann > >> *Cc:* General Discussions of AFRINIC > >> *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude > >> > >> > >> > >> Dear Sander, > >> > >> In your email to the community, you wrote > >> > >> > I am surprised at the level of micro-management that CEO Alan > >> Barrett has to deal with. > >> > >> I have read the minutes and I could not see any trace that is related > >> to ?micro-management?. Rather the discussion revolved around the > >> procedure to publish the judgement, who should publish the judgement, > >> and the issue of NDA. > >> > >> Could you please show me in the minutes the part that is dealing with > >> the micro-management? > >> > >> Thank you, > >> > >> > >> Benjiloh > >> > >> > >> > >> On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 12:50 PM Sander Steffann >> >> > wrote: > >> > >> Hello, > >> > >> I was just reading the board minutes at > >> https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/2019-minutes/20190305-minutes.pdf > >> and I am surprised at the level of micro-management that CEO Alan > >> Barrett has to deal with. In those minutes both Alan and Seun > >> Ojedeji seem to be reprimanded for being open and transparent to > >> this community. The summary of those minutes show how the board > >> has made it explicitly clear that the CEO is to have no > >> responsibility anymore towards this community. > >> > >> Therefore I would like to explicitly and publicly express my > >> gratitude to both Alan and Seun for their efforts to keep this > >> community involved in Afrinic matters in an open and transparent > >> way. I feel this is a strong requirement for keeping Afrinic > >> respected and supported by both its members and its community. > >> > >> Sincerely, > >> Sander > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Community-Discuss mailing list > >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > > >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Community-Discuss mailing list > >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > > -- > > Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa > > mje at posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496 > > For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Community-Discuss mailing list > > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanlevin at gmail.com Fri May 31 09:29:23 2019 From: alanlevin at gmail.com (Alan Levin) Date: Fri, 31 May 2019 11:29:23 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude (off-topic) In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20190530103217.0d1f75e8@elandnews.com> References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> <6.2.5.6.2.20190530011306.0ea1c8b0@elandnews.com> <9295CBB7-D5A7-4366-99B2-6AAC668740D7@gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20190530033643.119934c8@elandnews.com> <5091B6A8-2612-4725-A6B4-547064526B05@liquidtelecom.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20190530103217.0d1f75e8@elandnews.com> Message-ID: Dear S. The situation is apalling! The Southern rep is currently suspended from his job.... we still do not know why.... the rest of the board appears to have jointly angered the CEO into resignation... I am surprised you have not resigned yet.... why are you still there? Alan On Thu, 30 May 2019 at 20:40, S. Moonesamy wrote: > Dear Andrew, > At 10:13 AM 30-05-2019, Andrew Alston wrote: > >Is the board prepared to share the full unredacted accountability > >assessment with the community if it has not already been done (I > >don't recall it have being done so) > > Thank you for contacting me. In my opinion, it may possible to bring > the request to the attention of the Board as there was a decision > about requests from Resource Members in 2017. I don't know what the > Board will decide as a Board is usually more than one member's opinion. > > There is a mention of a public summary in the minutes of May 2016. I > found the following: http://r.elandsys.com/r/40408 > > Regards, > S. Moonesamy > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wayne at domains.co.za Fri May 31 09:54:58 2019 From: wayne at domains.co.za (Wayne Diamond) Date: Fri, 31 May 2019 09:54:58 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude (off-topic) In-Reply-To: References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> <6.2.5.6.2.20190530011306.0ea1c8b0@elandnews.com> <9295CBB7-D5A7-4366-99B2-6AAC668740D7@gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20190530033643.119934c8@elandnews.com> <5091B6A8-2612-4725-A6B4-547064526B05@liquidtelecom.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20190530103217.0d1f75e8@elandnews.com> Message-ID: Is this not the time for a vote of no confidence in the chairman / some of the board? Wayne From: Alan Levin Sent: 31 May 2019 11:29 AM To: S. Moonesamy Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude (off-topic) Dear S. The situation is apalling! The Southern rep is currently suspended from his job.... we still do not know why.... the rest of the board appears to have jointly angered the CEO into resignation... I am surprised you have not resigned yet.... why are you still there? Alan On Thu, 30 May 2019 at 20:40, S. Moonesamy > wrote: Dear Andrew, At 10:13 AM 30-05-2019, Andrew Alston wrote: >Is the board prepared to share the full unredacted accountability >assessment with the community if it has not already been done (I >don't recall it have being done so) Thank you for contacting me. In my opinion, it may possible to bring the request to the attention of the Board as there was a decision about requests from Resource Members in 2017. I don't know what the Board will decide as a Board is usually more than one member's opinion. There is a mention of a public summary in the minutes of May 2016. I found the following: http://r.elandsys.com/r/40408 Regards, S. Moonesamy _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From badru.ntege at nftconsult.com Fri May 31 11:22:30 2019 From: badru.ntege at nftconsult.com (Badru Ntege) Date: Fri, 31 May 2019 11:22:30 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude In-Reply-To: References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> <8671312b-793a-861f-31f1-6d9d682fb893@posix.co.za> <41c382a1-8acc-b521-8480-de0e84272748@geier.ne.tz> Message-ID: From what I see here A collective and binding decision was made by board to release information at an appropriate time. That decision would have been bidding to all board members as per procedure. One or two members went ahead to release that information outside the board agreed process. Whether or not that information was already publicly available. The intent of the members that released the information was in response to community asking for the board to release the information. The proper way for that information to be released would have been through the approved board process. The members in question that released information did it in their capacity as board members and would have received that information under that capacity. Every action has consequences and as adults we make decisions having considered the consequences one would assume. I urge us all to be rational. I somehow believe you all believe you are acting in the best interest of our organisations AfriNIC. But blowing a procedural issue like this to this level and even trying to relate or connect it to a personal decision of an employee to resign is reaching and really not in the spirit of the entire community or our organisations. Lets give the people we elected the respect they deserve, advise them when they need the guidance and allow them to do the job. We cannot all be board members at the same time so we choose a few from the wide community to do that role. Looking forward to hosting you all in beautiful Kampala for AIS19 Regards BN From: John Walu Date: Friday, May 31, 2019 at 11:08 AM To: Andrew Alston Cc: "community-discuss at afrinic.net" Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude @Andrew I thot AfriNIC has a well-established mechanism for supporting or not supporting the current chair. I am sure you recall this used to happen every year after new members join the board and a vote is called to either extend or rotate the chairman position. Am not sure if there has been a change this process and now the voting of the Chair by board members happens on email ;-) That said, I had not bothered to read the board minutes under discussion but after reading them, I am a bit surprised that 4years later, AfriNIC board is still obsessed with 'information control' strategies when they should be concerned with 'information sharing' strategies. Strictly speaking, Afrinic, as a community network has really nothing worth hiding (other than as per Data Protection Act/Regulations). Furthermore trying to hide or suppress what is already a public document, does not send a good signal to the community. Dr. Bope, our Chairman, I am sure you can actually move beyond this and focus the board in more progressive endeavors. best regards and all the best. walu. On Fri, May 31, 2019 at 10:22 AM Andrew Alston > wrote: Can we conclude from the total lack of response to this email that in fact ? there is no one willing to step up and say they support the current chair? Either member or board member? Andrew From: Frank Habicht > Sent: Tuesday, 28 May 2019 16:36 To: community-discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude Hi, reading https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/2018-minutes/20181231-minutes.pdf especially: SO stated that he had requested via email for the Board to announce the status of the AGMM quorum court case. He stated that the Chair had refused to do so, and the Chair had alleged that SO was looking for votes. SO had requested the Chair to withdraw the statement. The Chair stated that the Board had discussed the matter, and would communicate to the community at an appropriate time; based on that the Chair did not see a need to withdraw. SO again requested the Chair to withdraw the allegation that SO was looking for votes, and the Chair again refused to withdraw. I conclude that the Chair actively tried to suppress information/updates from AfriNIC membership. He apparently had no good reason and was using the allegation of another board member "looking for votes" as only argument. Which member of AfriNIC wants to have such a chair at the AfriNIC board? Please identify yourselves positively. PS: I would also wish to know which other board members supported this decision by the chair. Thanks, Frank On 28/05/2019 16:18, Mark Elkins wrote: > Thinking about the CEO, reading the minutes ( > https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/2019-minutes/20190305-minutes.pdf ) - I > think the best way out for the AfriNIC community is if the whole board > resigns - just leave the CEO. Andrew has got it right. > > On 2019/05/28 14:36, Andrew Alston wrote: >> >> Benjamin, >> >> >> >> Let?s see ? you have a public document ? a document that is clearly >> and totally in the public domain. You have an individual who was a >> named party in that document ? who chose to share that document. You >> have an active attempt by the board to sanction that individual for >> engaging with the community who he is meant to serve. You have a >> statement by the chair of the board that the CEO does not serve the >> community but instead serves the board. >> >> >> >> Effectively ? you have a board attempting to censor the CEO from >> engaging with this community ? in a bottom up organization that by >> legal representation during the IANA transition committed to the >> concepts of self determination of members and transparency and bottom >> up approach. >> >> >> >> 1. That constitutes micro-management >> 2. In constitutes a total and utter failure of the board to adhere to >> the principles sworn to in the foundation of the organization in >> the original ICP2 >> 3. It shows a total disregard for the obligations set out in section >> 3 of the bylaws to keep members informed of all things pertinent >> to the company >> >> >> >> What I see here ? is nothing short of disgraceful ? and I find it >> absolutely shocking that any board member who has a shred of ethics ? >> would not have resigned in light of what is in those documents. It is >> a slap in the face of this community ? and the entire global RIR >> system ? and I am disgusted and appalled. I would say to Serge as a >> starting point ? if you have no shame ? resign ? now. I would say to >> the chair for your abject failure ? resign ? now. I would say to >> every member who consented to the final sections of that document ? >> resign ? now. >> >> >> >> Andrew >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:*Benjamin Ledoh > >> *Sent:* Tuesday, 28 May 2019 15:01 >> *To:* Sander Steffann > >> *Cc:* General Discussions of AFRINIC > >> *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude >> >> >> >> Dear Sander, >> >> In your email to the community, you wrote >> >> > I am surprised at the level of micro-management that CEO Alan >> Barrett has to deal with. >> >> I have read the minutes and I could not see any trace that is related >> to ?micro-management?. Rather the discussion revolved around the >> procedure to publish the judgement, who should publish the judgement, >> and the issue of NDA. >> >> Could you please show me in the minutes the part that is dealing with >> the micro-management? >> >> Thank you, >> >> >> Benjiloh >> >> >> >> On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 12:50 PM Sander Steffann >> > wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> I was just reading the board minutes at >> https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/2019-minutes/20190305-minutes.pdf >> and I am surprised at the level of micro-management that CEO Alan >> Barrett has to deal with. In those minutes both Alan and Seun >> Ojedeji seem to be reprimanded for being open and transparent to >> this community. The summary of those minutes show how the board >> has made it explicitly clear that the CEO is to have no >> responsibility anymore towards this community. >> >> Therefore I would like to explicitly and publicly express my >> gratitude to both Alan and Seun for their efforts to keep this >> community involved in Afrinic matters in an open and transparent >> way. I feel this is a strong requirement for keeping Afrinic >> respected and supported by both its members and its community. >> >> Sincerely, >> Sander >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > -- > Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa > mje at posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496 > For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From saul at enetworks.co.za Fri May 31 11:21:18 2019 From: saul at enetworks.co.za (Saul Stein) Date: Fri, 31 May 2019 13:21:18 +0200 (SAST) Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude (off-topic) In-Reply-To: References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> <6.2.5.6.2.20190530011306.0ea1c8b0@elandnews.com> <9295CBB7-D5A7-4366-99B2-6AAC668740D7@gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20190530033643.119934c8@elandnews.com> <5091B6A8-2612-4725-A6B4-547064526B05@liquidtelecom.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20190530103217.0d1f75e8@elandnews.com> Message-ID: <11c701d517a3$03036580$090a3080$@enetworks.co.za> Hi All, Reading from the minutes: The CEO highlighted that the document that was shared on the community mailing list was a public document, a public document that was received directly from the Court and not subject to NDA and privilege, and was not received in virtue of the employment at AFRINIC but received from the Court registry. The CEO further affirmed that it was important and for the best interest of the company to share the document to the community Where is the conflict of interest? The Chair pointed out that on the 9 February, he shared an email that he wanted to hear the views of the Board before sharing the document to the community. The community had been calling for this information repeatedly. If the CEO was not being supported by the Board in the daily operation of the organisation, that is huge issue. There have been numerous instances where the board has failed to communicate with it members (those very people to whom the board is accountable and put the board there in the first place.) With regards to the Agenda Items under discussion, VM pointed out that matter of governance and sharing with the members should be under the responsibility of the Board. The Board should have agreed as a whole to release the document. Sadly they were asked but the members and didn?t and so someone placed a public document in a location so that those interested could view it. Legal counsel had in a number of occasions highlighted that the judgment was a publicly accessible document hence there was no reason to delay its publication. Since legal counsel had advised, why did the board still not comply? Let?s add this current issue of a director that has been suspended from his day job. While I am not going to jump to conclusions as to why (that is not for us to judge), whatever happen is serious enough to suspend him. Good governance and integrity would be for him to temporarily remove himself from all decision making from other entities as well to prevent inference and possible misconduct. Would you go to an accountant for private work while he has been suspended from his day job? The board knew about this and failed to act. As a general rule, where there is smoke there is fire. People only hide things where there are things to hide. We are a community based organisation. There is very little data that needs redacting in the minutes in general. Communication should be forthcoming and open! All these issues really make one think about the objectives of the board! From: Wayne Diamond [mailto:wayne at domains.co.za] Sent: 31 May 2019 11:55 AM To: Alan Levin ; S. Moonesamy Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude (off-topic) Is this not the time for a vote of no confidence in the chairman / some of the board? Wayne From: Alan Levin > Sent: 31 May 2019 11:29 AM To: S. Moonesamy > Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude (off-topic) Dear S. The situation is apalling! The Southern rep is currently suspended from his job.... we still do not know why.... the rest of the board appears to have jointly angered the CEO into resignation... I am surprised you have not resigned yet.... why are you still there? Alan On Thu, 30 May 2019 at 20:40, S. Moonesamy > wrote: Dear Andrew, At 10:13 AM 30-05-2019, Andrew Alston wrote: >Is the board prepared to share the full unredacted accountability >assessment with the community if it has not already been done (I >don't recall it have being done so) Thank you for contacting me. In my opinion, it may possible to bring the request to the attention of the Board as there was a decision about requests from Resource Members in 2017. I don't know what the Board will decide as a Board is usually more than one member's opinion. There is a mention of a public summary in the minutes of May 2016. I found the following: http://r.elandsys.com/r/40408 Regards, S. Moonesamy _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alanlevin at gmail.com Fri May 31 11:32:07 2019 From: alanlevin at gmail.com (Alan Levin) Date: Fri, 31 May 2019 13:32:07 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude In-Reply-To: References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> <8671312b-793a-861f-31f1-6d9d682fb893@posix.co.za> <41c382a1-8acc-b521-8480-de0e84272748@geier.ne.tz> Message-ID: Badru, On Fri, 31 May 2019 at 13:21, Badru Ntege wrote: > From what I see here > > A collective and binding decision was made by board to release > information at an appropriate time. That decision would have been bidding > to all board members as per procedure. > Clearly this was a poor decision.... One or two members went ahead to release that information outside the board > agreed process. > A seriously flawed Board process! Whether or not that information was already publicly available. The > intent of the members that released the information was in response to > community asking for the board to release the information. > > The proper way for that information to be released would have been through > the approved board process. > > The members in question that released information did it in their capacity > as board members and would have received that information under that > capacity. > > Every action has consequences and as adults we make decisions having > considered the consequences one would assume. > > I urge us all to be rational. I somehow believe you all believe you are > acting in the best interest of our organisations AfriNIC. > We are being rational Badru, we are all most disappointed at the Board decisions here which have seriously destabilised the already flailing RIR! This was a very poor decision and "the cherry on top" > But blowing a procedural issue like this to this level and even trying to > relate or connect it to a personal decision of an employee to resign is > reaching and really not in the spirit of the entire community or our > organisations. > > Lets give the people we elected the respect they deserve, advise them when > they need the guidance and allow them to do the job. > Please keep in mind that we DID NOT elect these people... some of us elected some of these people, but they were largely elected on block or by default... We cannot all be board members at the same time so we choose a few from the > wide community to do that role. > Yes, we want a better board - just one that is functiuonal - and a better process... Sincerely Alan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com Fri May 31 11:32:33 2019 From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston) Date: Fri, 31 May 2019 11:32:33 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude In-Reply-To: References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> <8671312b-793a-861f-31f1-6d9d682fb893@posix.co.za> <41c382a1-8acc-b521-8480-de0e84272748@geier.ne.tz> Message-ID: * The members in question that released information did it in their capacity as board members and would have received that information under that capacity. This is not true ? read the court papers ? each member was a respondent to the court filing in their personal capacities ? they were directly served the papers in their own names ? the very first thing in that filing is SM vs * Lets give the people we elected the respect they deserve, advise them when they need the guidance and allow them to do the job. We are doing this ? the only thing we differ on is what is deserved in light of what is in those documents. Andrew From: John Walu > Date: Friday, May 31, 2019 at 11:08 AM To: Andrew Alston > Cc: "community-discuss at afrinic.net" > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude @Andrew I thot AfriNIC has a well-established mechanism for supporting or not supporting the current chair. I am sure you recall this used to happen every year after new members join the board and a vote is called to either extend or rotate the chairman position. Am not sure if there has been a change this process and now the voting of the Chair by board members happens on email ;-) That said, I had not bothered to read the board minutes under discussion but after reading them, I am a bit surprised that 4years later, AfriNIC board is still obsessed with 'information control' strategies when they should be concerned with 'information sharing' strategies. Strictly speaking, Afrinic, as a community network has really nothing worth hiding (other than as per Data Protection Act/Regulations). Furthermore trying to hide or suppress what is already a public document, does not send a good signal to the community. Dr. Bope, our Chairman, I am sure you can actually move beyond this and focus the board in more progressive endeavors. best regards and all the best. walu. On Fri, May 31, 2019 at 10:22 AM Andrew Alston > wrote: Can we conclude from the total lack of response to this email that in fact ? there is no one willing to step up and say they support the current chair? Either member or board member? Andrew From: Frank Habicht > Sent: Tuesday, 28 May 2019 16:36 To: community-discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude Hi, reading https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/2018-minutes/20181231-minutes.pdf especially: SO stated that he had requested via email for the Board to announce the status of the AGMM quorum court case. He stated that the Chair had refused to do so, and the Chair had alleged that SO was looking for votes. SO had requested the Chair to withdraw the statement. The Chair stated that the Board had discussed the matter, and would communicate to the community at an appropriate time; based on that the Chair did not see a need to withdraw. SO again requested the Chair to withdraw the allegation that SO was looking for votes, and the Chair again refused to withdraw. I conclude that the Chair actively tried to suppress information/updates from AfriNIC membership. He apparently had no good reason and was using the allegation of another board member "looking for votes" as only argument. Which member of AfriNIC wants to have such a chair at the AfriNIC board? Please identify yourselves positively. PS: I would also wish to know which other board members supported this decision by the chair. Thanks, Frank On 28/05/2019 16:18, Mark Elkins wrote: > Thinking about the CEO, reading the minutes ( > https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/2019-minutes/20190305-minutes.pdf ) - I > think the best way out for the AfriNIC community is if the whole board > resigns - just leave the CEO. Andrew has got it right. > > On 2019/05/28 14:36, Andrew Alston wrote: >> >> Benjamin, >> >> >> >> Let?s see ? you have a public document ? a document that is clearly >> and totally in the public domain. You have an individual who was a >> named party in that document ? who chose to share that document. You >> have an active attempt by the board to sanction that individual for >> engaging with the community who he is meant to serve. You have a >> statement by the chair of the board that the CEO does not serve the >> community but instead serves the board. >> >> >> >> Effectively ? you have a board attempting to censor the CEO from >> engaging with this community ? in a bottom up organization that by >> legal representation during the IANA transition committed to the >> concepts of self determination of members and transparency and bottom >> up approach. >> >> >> >> 1. That constitutes micro-management >> 2. In constitutes a total and utter failure of the board to adhere to >> the principles sworn to in the foundation of the organization in >> the original ICP2 >> 3. It shows a total disregard for the obligations set out in section >> 3 of the bylaws to keep members informed of all things pertinent >> to the company >> >> >> >> What I see here ? is nothing short of disgraceful ? and I find it >> absolutely shocking that any board member who has a shred of ethics ? >> would not have resigned in light of what is in those documents. It is >> a slap in the face of this community ? and the entire global RIR >> system ? and I am disgusted and appalled. I would say to Serge as a >> starting point ? if you have no shame ? resign ? now. I would say to >> the chair for your abject failure ? resign ? now. I would say to >> every member who consented to the final sections of that document ? >> resign ? now. >> >> >> >> Andrew >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:*Benjamin Ledoh > >> *Sent:* Tuesday, 28 May 2019 15:01 >> *To:* Sander Steffann > >> *Cc:* General Discussions of AFRINIC > >> *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude >> >> >> >> Dear Sander, >> >> In your email to the community, you wrote >> >> > I am surprised at the level of micro-management that CEO Alan >> Barrett has to deal with. >> >> I have read the minutes and I could not see any trace that is related >> to ?micro-management?. Rather the discussion revolved around the >> procedure to publish the judgement, who should publish the judgement, >> and the issue of NDA. >> >> Could you please show me in the minutes the part that is dealing with >> the micro-management? >> >> Thank you, >> >> >> Benjiloh >> >> >> >> On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 12:50 PM Sander Steffann >> > wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> I was just reading the board minutes at >> https://www.afrinic.net/ast/pdf/2019-minutes/20190305-minutes.pdf >> and I am surprised at the level of micro-management that CEO Alan >> Barrett has to deal with. In those minutes both Alan and Seun >> Ojedeji seem to be reprimanded for being open and transparent to >> this community. The summary of those minutes show how the board >> has made it explicitly clear that the CEO is to have no >> responsibility anymore towards this community. >> >> Therefore I would like to explicitly and publicly express my >> gratitude to both Alan and Seun for their efforts to keep this >> community involved in Afrinic matters in an open and transparent >> way. I feel this is a strong requirement for keeping Afrinic >> respected and supported by both its members and its community. >> >> Sincerely, >> Sander >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > -- > Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa > mje at posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496 > For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jordi.palet at consulintel.es Fri May 31 11:48:40 2019 From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ) Date: Fri, 31 May 2019 13:48:40 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude In-Reply-To: References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> <8671312b-793a-861f-31f1-6d9d682fb893@posix.co.za> <41c382a1-8acc-b521-8480-de0e84272748@geier.ne.tz> Message-ID: <2D778262-5271-4A77-8686-A3A2EA1CAE8D@consulintel.es> Let?s make it generic, so it is easier to understand for everyone. Note that I?m not a lawyer, but law is generally very logic. So: In law, you can?t hide documents that are already public. Moreover, an organization (membership or any other type), can?t have rules that go *against* the law. An NDA can?t protect public documents. Organization bylaws or rules can?t act against laws or reduce rights that are provided by law. If a rule is against law, it can be absolutelly ignored. The rest of the rules are still in place. So, a board, can *NEVER* hide, delay or ask its members to not provide a document to the overall membership, if this document is already public. A board can?t consequently punish members of the board, because they don?t wait for the board decision to publish a *public* document among the membership. In fact, it will be on the other way around: Board members that don?t release ASAP, a public document related to the membership/organization, may be in fault, acting against the interest of the organization and members. Regards, Jordi El 31/5/19 13:34, "Alan Levin" escribi?: Badru, On Fri, 31 May 2019 at 13:21, Badru Ntege wrote: >From what I see here A collective and binding decision was made by board to release information at an appropriate time. That decision would have been bidding to all board members as per procedure. Clearly this was a poor decision.... One or two members went ahead to release that information outside the board agreed process. A seriously flawed Board process! Whether or not that information was already publicly available. The intent of the members that released the information was in response to community asking for the board to release the information. The proper way for that information to be released would have been through the approved board process. The members in question that released information did it in their capacity as board members and would have received that information under that capacity. Every action has consequences and as adults we make decisions having considered the consequences one would assume. I urge us all to be rational. I somehow believe you all believe you are acting in the best interest of our organisations AfriNIC. We are being rational Badru, we are all most disappointed at the Board decisions here which have seriously destabilised the already flailing RIR! This was a very poor decision and "the cherry on top" But blowing a procedural issue like this to this level and even trying to relate or connect it to a personal decision of an employee to resign is reaching and really not in the spirit of the entire community or our organisations. Lets give the people we elected the respect they deserve, advise them when they need the guidance and allow them to do the job. Please keep in mind that we DID NOT elect these people... some of us elected some of these people, but they were largely elected on block or by default... We cannot all be board members at the same time so we choose a few from the wide community to do that role. Yes, we want a better board - just one that is functiuonal - and a better process... Sincerely Alan _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From portia.rabonda at safnog.net Fri May 31 12:26:05 2019 From: portia.rabonda at safnog.net (Portia Rabonda) Date: Fri, 31 May 2019 12:26:05 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] SAFNOG-5 Call for Papers Message-ID: <1559305565404.15334@safnog.net> Dear All, Call for papers is open ?and the SAFNOG-5 Programme Committee would like to encourage your participation and contributions to the upcoming SAFNOG-5 Conference in the form of Presentations and Tutorials. We are looking for presenters who would: - Offer a technical tutorial on an appropriate topic; - Participate in the technical conference sessions as a speaker; - Convene and chair panel sessions of relevant topics. Conference Milestones Call for Papers Opens 21st May, 2019 Draft Program Published ?29th July, 2019 Final Deadline for Submissions 5th August, 2019 Final Program Published 16th August, 2019 Final Slides Received 20th August, 2019 **NOTE THAT REGARDLESS OF DEADLINES, SLOTS ARE FILLED ON A FIRST COME, FIRST SERVED BASIS** Program Material The SAFNOG-5 Conference Programme consists of two parts, these being the Tutorials and Conference Tracks. Topics proposed must be relevant to Internet Operations and Technologies: - IPv4 / IPv6 Routing and Operations - IPv6 deployment and transition technologies - Internet backbone operations - ISP and Carrier services - IXPs and Peering - Research on Internet Operations and Deployment - Software Defined Networking / Network Function Virtualisation - Network security issues (NSP-SEC, DDoS, Anti-Spam, Anti-Malware) - DNS / DNSSEC - Internet policy (Security, Regulation, Content Management, Addressing, etc) - Access and Transport Technologies, including Cable/DSL, LTE/5G, wireless, metro ethernet, fibre, segment routing - Content & Service Delivery (Multicast, Voice, Video, "telepresence", Gaming) and Cloud Computing CfP Submissions Draft slides for both tutorials and conference sessions MUST be provided with CfP submissions otherwise the Programme Committee will be unable to review the submission. For avoidance of doubt this means that submissions which do not include slides will be rejected immediately. For work in progress, the most current information available at time of submission is acceptable. All draft and complete slides must be submitted in PDF format only. Final slides are to be provided by the specified deadline for publication on the SAFNOG-5 website. Prospective presenters should note that the majority of speaking slots will be filled well before the final submission deadline. The PC may, at their discretion, retain a limited number of slots up to the final submission deadline for presentations that are exceptionally timely, important, or of critical operational importance. Every year we turn away submissions, due to filling up all available programme slots before the deadline. Presenters should endeavour to get material into the PC sooner rather than later. Please submit your contributions online at http://www.safnog.org Any questions or concerns should be addressed to the Programme Committee by e-mail at: pc-chairs at safnog.org We look forward to receiving your presentation proposals. Regards, SAFNOG-5 Programme Committee ? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Fri May 31 12:58:58 2019 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Fri, 31 May 2019 15:58:58 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude (off-topic) In-Reply-To: References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> <6.2.5.6.2.20190530011306.0ea1c8b0@elandnews.com> <9295CBB7-D5A7-4366-99B2-6AAC668740D7@gmail.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20190530033643.119934c8@elandnews.com> <5091B6A8-2612-4725-A6B4-547064526B05@liquidtelecom.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20190530103217.0d1f75e8@elandnews.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 May 2019, 13:38 Alan Levin, wrote: > Dear S. > > The situation is apalling! The Southern rep is currently suspended from > his job.... we still do not know why.... the rest of the board appears to > have jointly angered the CEO into resignation... I am surprised you have > not resigned yet.... why are you still there? > Common......... are you serious? > Alan > > On Thu, 30 May 2019 at 20:40, S. Moonesamy wrote: > >> Dear Andrew, >> At 10:13 AM 30-05-2019, Andrew Alston wrote: >> >Is the board prepared to share the full unredacted accountability >> >assessment with the community if it has not already been done (I >> >don't recall it have being done so) >> >> Thank you for contacting me. In my opinion, it may possible to bring >> the request to the attention of the Board as there was a decision >> about requests from Resource Members in 2017. I don't know what the >> Board will decide as a Board is usually more than one member's opinion. >> >> There is a mention of a public summary in the minutes of May 2016. I >> found the following: http://r.elandsys.com/r/40408 >> >> Regards, >> S. Moonesamy >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From asiboh.francis at elude.in Fri May 31 16:46:04 2019 From: asiboh.francis at elude.in (asiboh.francis at elude.in) Date: Fri, 31 May 2019 16:46:04 -0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Afrinic Services DOWN Message-ID: Dear board members and all members of the community All Afrinic services (Whois, RPKI, Afrinic.net, etc..) were down yesterday the 30th of May 2019 for a very long time. Board, where is the Disaster Recovery Strategy in this particular kind of incident ? Since now, no Root Cause Analysis were sent for transparency to the community. I am surprised that the Infrastructure Unit Manager, Mr Cedric MBEYET turned a deaf ear and did not learnt his lesson from the last incident where RPKI services were down. Instead of taking care of Afrinic services, the current board of directors is busy hiding public document from its members. Regards Francis ASIBOH Network Engineer From alan.barrett at afrinic.net Fri May 31 17:54:28 2019 From: alan.barrett at afrinic.net (Alan Barrett) Date: Fri, 31 May 2019 21:54:28 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude In-Reply-To: <1775bf5e-215e-f4b4-f5d9-ff7990e8a4cb@geier.ne.tz> References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> <1775bf5e-215e-f4b4-f5d9-ff7990e8a4cb@geier.ne.tz> Message-ID: <28D066F2-4671-4DB2-8535-057FA7C66C2B@afrinic.net> > On 28 May 2019, at 14:49, Frank Habicht wrote: > > Dear AfriNIC board members, > > reference is made in below email, and also in several other discussion > items regarding AfriNIC and its governance, to an NDA that board members > are to adhere to. > > Can you share the document please? The Board NDA has been published at Regards, Alan Barrett From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com Fri May 31 21:02:40 2019 From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston) Date: Fri, 31 May 2019 21:02:40 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude In-Reply-To: <28D066F2-4671-4DB2-8535-057FA7C66C2B@afrinic.net> References: <81DCB34E-B16C-4DF8-9AF4-52172B236DC2@steffann.nl> <1775bf5e-215e-f4b4-f5d9-ff7990e8a4cb@geier.ne.tz> <28D066F2-4671-4DB2-8535-057FA7C66C2B@afrinic.net> Message-ID: <8685662F-657A-4B35-8073-4BA8EC0DEDF4@liquidtelecom.com> Thank you Alan, Now ? I would like to break this down a bit ? firstly ? every directory is signatory to this document ? and by signing it ? have acknowledged ? under their own hand ? their knowledge of its contents. There can be no claim that the contents of this document once signed by a director are not known. Now ? with that said ? let us look at what the NDA said ? wording relevant to this is highlighted: 1. I understand that certain information about AfriNIC is confidential, which is information not previously published or otherwise disclosed to the public and which relates to but is not limited to the following: Now ? there can be no question that the information in said documents were disclosed to the public. The court had the documents ? the courts ? are a public entity ? judges ? are public servants. To add further weight ? I point to the fact that resolution 201411.211 states: However, information disclosed by the Board to third parties not under NDA to the Board is no longer confidential and is deemed to be in the public domain. So ? it is absolutely beyond dispute that those court documents were public information. It is absolutely beyond dispute that every director had to know the definition of confidential ? they signed the NDA. Therefore ? logic states ? that any director making a claim of NDA violation or claiming contractual violation in breach of the NDA was bringing a motion that he KNEW was both frivolous and without any merit whatsoever. Now ? let us look beyond the bylaws at the companies act specifically section 143 entitled ?Duties of directors to act in good faith and in best interests of the company? Section 143.(1).(c) states: exercise their powers honestly in good faith in the best interests of the company and for the respective purposes for which such powers are explicitly or impliedly conferred; Now ? since it can be CLEARLY established that the power to bring charges of NDA violation and violation of contract were exercised in bad faith ? considering the full knowledge of said director under his own signature that the information was not ? and could not be ? covered under the NDA ? at the VERY least one director is in, at least in my mind, in clear violation of this clause and his fiduciary duties as a director. Furthermore ? while perhaps more tenuous an argument ? I would argue that the chair ? knowing full well that the charges being brought were frivolous and in bad faith (on the same basis that the charges made by Serge were in bad faith) acted contrary to the best interests of the company by allowing these charges to be heard ? and published ? showing the world a completely dysfunctional board acting in bad faith. So ? while I stand by my statements that I believe the board as a whole should resign ? particularly in light of the fact that not a single director objected to the charges brought and the fact that the meeting was being held in the first place ? thereby lending credibility to a clear cut act of bad faith ? and therefore also acting against the best interests of the company ? I need to state ? that this in particular applies both the Chair and Serge Ilunga ? both of whom in my mind CLEARLY violated the companies act and their fiduciary duties as is clearly documented in those minutes. Hence ? I reiterate my call for the resignation of the directors. Thanks Andrew From: Alan Barrett Date: Friday, 31 May 2019 at 20:55 To: General Discussions of AFRINIC Cc: AFRINIC Board of Directors' List Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Gratitude > On 28 May 2019, at 14:49, Frank Habicht wrote: > > Dear AfriNIC board members, > > reference is made in below email, and also in several other discussion > items regarding AfriNIC and its governance, to an NDA that board members > are to adhere to. > > Can you share the document please? The Board NDA has been published at > Regards, Alan Barrett _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: