From otieno.barrack at gmail.com Mon Jul 1 09:38:39 2019 From: otieno.barrack at gmail.com (Barrack Otieno) Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2019 12:38:39 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Save the date: Africa Domain Name System Forum July 22-24, Gaborone, Botswana In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Listers, EN: Please note that the Africa DNS Forum 2019 will take place from July 22-24, 2019 in Gaborone (Botswana) . More information will follow during the week. If you require a VISA kindly ensure that you register online (dnsforum.africa) on or before 10th July 2019. FR : Pri?re noter que le prochain DNS Forum aura lieu du 22 au 24 Juillet 2019 ? Gaborone (Botswana). Plus d?informations seront fournies au cours de la semaine.Si vous avez besoin d'un VISA, veuillez vous inscrire en ligne au plus tard le 10 juillet 2019. Thanks/Merci -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: AfricaDNSForum2019_SavetheDate.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 450234 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sm+af at afrinic.net Mon Jul 1 15:47:22 2019 From: sm+af at afrinic.net (S. Moonesamy) Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2019 08:47:22 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals (off-topic) In-Reply-To: <8a235546-dca3-9743-f6d4-8c603766636d@retevia.net> References: <0B1D06E4-DF1B-4AD7-9610-C677FD7CE62E@consulintel.es> <47112AEB-103C-422B-AEDA-81BD9F0C26A8@gmail.com> <8E6501CD-1B3E-443A-90DA-9FB43E35518D@consulintel.es> <12F5FF47-24A0-4EF8-9BAF-0D5AE07A9F24@consulintel.es> <99d24989-eff3-b477-8d0f-a8e9163c8f07@gmail.com> <5EDD463E-5564-490F-8DE8-7E6029F2C30B@consulintel.es> <5371d704-2907-1180-9ab5-4d2a24c6be29@gmail.com> <09C22E20-7C2A-487D-A310-236A90B7347C@consulintel.es> <8a235546-dca3-9743-f6d4-8c603766636d@retevia.net> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20190701080844.10b9b100@elandnews.com> Dear Lee, At 08:59 AM 28-06-2019, Lee Howard wrote: >A company can save money on IPv4 addresses and CGN by deploying >IPv6. But it's too late to deploy IPv6 before Afrinic runs out of >addresses. Addresses will run out, and the market will not be able >to satisfy the need for addresses. ISPs and mobile carriers >everywhere in Africa will have to deploy CGN, and at higher density >than elsewhere in the world. The cost for businesses to connect will >be much higher, since they need inbound access and therefore unique >IPv4 addresses. African Internet deployment will stall, all because >IPv6 has not been deployed and there is no way to get more IPv4 addresses. Is there any independent study to show that a company in this service region can save money by deploying IPv6? Regards, S. Moonesamy From jordi.palet at consulintel.es Mon Jul 1 18:08:47 2019 From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ) Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2019 20:08:47 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals (off-topic) In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20190701080844.10b9b100@elandnews.com> References: <0B1D06E4-DF1B-4AD7-9610-C677FD7CE62E@consulintel.es> <47112AEB-103C-422B-AEDA-81BD9F0C26A8@gmail.com> <8E6501CD-1B3E-443A-90DA-9FB43E35518D@consulintel.es> <12F5FF47-24A0-4EF8-9BAF-0D5AE07A9F24@consulintel.es> <99d24989-eff3-b477-8d0f-a8e9163c8f07@gmail.com> <5EDD463E-5564-490F-8DE8-7E6029F2C30B@consulintel.es> <5371d704-2907-1180-9ab5-4d2a24c6be29@gmail.com> <09C22E20-7C2A-487D-A310-236A90B7347C@consulintel.es> <8a235546-dca3-9743-f6d4-8c603766636d@retevia.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20190701080844.10b9b100@elandnews.com> Message-ID: <8EAD095E-A90E-4D9F-8D19-F20A8AF886DE@consulintel.es> Hi SM, Responding from my own perspective, hopefully is useful. I think "independent" is not easy to find, and is not related to a specific region. But here are some "numbers" based on my own experience (from my customers networks, so independent on the sense of "not just one case"). This also follows numbers that other operators (not just my customers) have confirmed, for example in v6ops and other foras. If you deploy CGN (so you want to stay with IPv4 artificially) instead of IPv6, you need CGN boxes to cover 100% of your traffic. Add to this the necessary IPv4 pools for each CGN box. The IPv4 pools will cost money when AFRINIC can't source those anymore. If you deploy an IPv6-only with IPv4-as-a-Service (464XLAT, MAP-T/E, lw4o6, DS-Lite), because the IPv4-only traffic accounts only for the 24%, you only need 1/4 of the "equivalent" box to the CGNs (NAT64, BR, lw4o6, etc.), and probably less than 1/4 of the IPv4 addresses. So, I will bet that you can save in terms of IPv4 addresses and operator infrastructure, with a good knowledge and planning of what are you doing, up to 75%. If your network is mainly residential, because the IPv6 availability in CDNs and caches is in those cases up to 85%, savings can be even bigger. In addition to that, there are some advantages such as the opex savings. It is less expensive to manage IPv6-only with IPv4aaS across your network than pure dual-stack. May be not 50% savings, but still impacting a lot. Some transition mechanisms make a more efficient use of the number of ports (and do not limit how many per customer), so consequently you even need less IPv4 addresses, this is for example the case, in my experience, of 464XLAT. We have some considerations about this at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-lmhp-v6ops-transition-comparison/ (new version coming in a matter of hours ... working on it already!) And by the way, if you need to buy CPEs, please, make sure to ask for RFC8585 support if you want to be safe and save more money! All this may be a bit different depending on the transition mechanism that you choose, and also depending on a broadband-only network, % of residential customers vs business ones (if they require pure dual-stack), cellular or a mix of all those. And of course, what quality of service (number of ports per customer in the CGN or alike) you want to "provide". I know I'm not talking about USD here, because that depends a lot on many factors, case by case: 1) How much you pay for the CGN or alike (NAT64, BR, lw4o6, etc.) boxes. 2) Do you need to replace the CPEs or you have got them already with IPv6 support. 3) May be existing boxes in your network already do some of the CGN or alike (NAT64, BR, lw4o6, etc.) functions. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet ?El 1/7/19 18:24, "S. Moonesamy" escribi?: Dear Lee, At 08:59 AM 28-06-2019, Lee Howard wrote: >A company can save money on IPv4 addresses and CGN by deploying >IPv6. But it's too late to deploy IPv6 before Afrinic runs out of >addresses. Addresses will run out, and the market will not be able >to satisfy the need for addresses. ISPs and mobile carriers >everywhere in Africa will have to deploy CGN, and at higher density >than elsewhere in the world. The cost for businesses to connect will >be much higher, since they need inbound access and therefore unique >IPv4 addresses. African Internet deployment will stall, all because >IPv6 has not been deployed and there is no way to get more IPv4 addresses. Is there any independent study to show that a company in this service region can save money by deploying IPv6? Regards, S. Moonesamy _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. From jordi.palet at consulintel.es Mon Jul 1 18:24:18 2019 From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ) Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2019 20:24:18 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals (off-topic) In-Reply-To: <8EAD095E-A90E-4D9F-8D19-F20A8AF886DE@consulintel.es> References: <0B1D06E4-DF1B-4AD7-9610-C677FD7CE62E@consulintel.es> <47112AEB-103C-422B-AEDA-81BD9F0C26A8@gmail.com> <8E6501CD-1B3E-443A-90DA-9FB43E35518D@consulintel.es> <12F5FF47-24A0-4EF8-9BAF-0D5AE07A9F24@consulintel.es> <99d24989-eff3-b477-8d0f-a8e9163c8f07@gmail.com> <5EDD463E-5564-490F-8DE8-7E6029F2C30B@consulintel.es> <5371d704-2907-1180-9ab5-4d2a24c6be29@gmail.com> <09C22E20-7C2A-487D-A310-236A90B7347C@consulintel.es> <8a235546-dca3-9743-f6d4-8c603766636d@retevia.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20190701080844.10b9b100@elandnews.com> <8EAD095E-A90E-4D9F-8D19-F20A8AF886DE@consulintel.es> Message-ID: <3D9E4605-593A-4888-B91A-B1313E3E7EF6@consulintel.es> By the way another reference, this one specific to 464XLAT: NAT64/464XLAT Deployment Guidelines in Operator and Enterprise Networks https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-v6ops-nat64-deployment/ This document just ended the last-call, so if nothing is identified as really broken (apart from possible editorial nits), the IESG should pass it really soon to the RFC Editor for publication. I expect this becoming an RFC may be in 1-2 months or so. Note that I don't recommend anyone to deploy "only NAT64", the document clearly depicts the whys. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet ?El 1/7/19 20:11, "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss" escribi?: Hi SM, Responding from my own perspective, hopefully is useful. I think "independent" is not easy to find, and is not related to a specific region. But here are some "numbers" based on my own experience (from my customers networks, so independent on the sense of "not just one case"). This also follows numbers that other operators (not just my customers) have confirmed, for example in v6ops and other foras. If you deploy CGN (so you want to stay with IPv4 artificially) instead of IPv6, you need CGN boxes to cover 100% of your traffic. Add to this the necessary IPv4 pools for each CGN box. The IPv4 pools will cost money when AFRINIC can't source those anymore. If you deploy an IPv6-only with IPv4-as-a-Service (464XLAT, MAP-T/E, lw4o6, DS-Lite), because the IPv4-only traffic accounts only for the 24%, you only need 1/4 of the "equivalent" box to the CGNs (NAT64, BR, lw4o6, etc.), and probably less than 1/4 of the IPv4 addresses. So, I will bet that you can save in terms of IPv4 addresses and operator infrastructure, with a good knowledge and planning of what are you doing, up to 75%. If your network is mainly residential, because the IPv6 availability in CDNs and caches is in those cases up to 85%, savings can be even bigger. In addition to that, there are some advantages such as the opex savings. It is less expensive to manage IPv6-only with IPv4aaS across your network than pure dual-stack. May be not 50% savings, but still impacting a lot. Some transition mechanisms make a more efficient use of the number of ports (and do not limit how many per customer), so consequently you even need less IPv4 addresses, this is for example the case, in my experience, of 464XLAT. We have some considerations about this at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-lmhp-v6ops-transition-comparison/ (new version coming in a matter of hours ... working on it already!) And by the way, if you need to buy CPEs, please, make sure to ask for RFC8585 support if you want to be safe and save more money! All this may be a bit different depending on the transition mechanism that you choose, and also depending on a broadband-only network, % of residential customers vs business ones (if they require pure dual-stack), cellular or a mix of all those. And of course, what quality of service (number of ports per customer in the CGN or alike) you want to "provide". I know I'm not talking about USD here, because that depends a lot on many factors, case by case: 1) How much you pay for the CGN or alike (NAT64, BR, lw4o6, etc.) boxes. 2) Do you need to replace the CPEs or you have got them already with IPv6 support. 3) May be existing boxes in your network already do some of the CGN or alike (NAT64, BR, lw4o6, etc.) functions. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet ?El 1/7/19 18:24, "S. Moonesamy" escribi?: Dear Lee, At 08:59 AM 28-06-2019, Lee Howard wrote: >A company can save money on IPv4 addresses and CGN by deploying >IPv6. But it's too late to deploy IPv6 before Afrinic runs out of >addresses. Addresses will run out, and the market will not be able >to satisfy the need for addresses. ISPs and mobile carriers >everywhere in Africa will have to deploy CGN, and at higher density >than elsewhere in the world. The cost for businesses to connect will >be much higher, since they need inbound access and therefore unique >IPv4 addresses. African Internet deployment will stall, all because >IPv6 has not been deployed and there is no way to get more IPv4 addresses. Is there any independent study to show that a company in this service region can save money by deploying IPv6? Regards, S. Moonesamy _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. From sm+af at afrinic.net Tue Jul 2 00:01:36 2019 From: sm+af at afrinic.net (S. Moonesamy) Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2019 17:01:36 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] inputs on IPv4 Inter-RIR policy proposals (off-topic) In-Reply-To: <7710da82-5658-7643-aa68-bb3b2b510d50@retevia.net> References: <0B1D06E4-DF1B-4AD7-9610-C677FD7CE62E@consulintel.es> <12F5FF47-24A0-4EF8-9BAF-0D5AE07A9F24@consulintel.es> <99d24989-eff3-b477-8d0f-a8e9163c8f07@gmail.com> <5EDD463E-5564-490F-8DE8-7E6029F2C30B@consulintel.es> <5371d704-2907-1180-9ab5-4d2a24c6be29@gmail.com> <09C22E20-7C2A-487D-A310-236A90B7347C@consulintel.es> <8a235546-dca3-9743-f6d4-8c603766636d@retevia.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20190701080844.10b9b100@elandnews.com> <7710da82-5658-7643-aa68-bb3b2b510d50@retevia.net> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20190701160339.10d6e4e8@elandnews.com> Dear Lee, Jordi, Thank you for the responses. At 02:42 PM 01-07-2019, Lee Howard wrote: >Every study I do is independent, so there's that. :) The following is closer to what I have seen: '"independent" is not easy to find, and is not related to a specific region'. For what it is worth, there are other aspects which could be factored in to gain a better view of whether the savings are worthwhile. Regards, S. Moonesamy From wafa at ati.tn Tue Jul 2 09:30:23 2019 From: wafa at ati.tn (wafa DAHMANI) Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2019 11:30:23 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship Message-ID: <1478031339.474342.1562059823971.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> Hi It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in Kampala, were given a confidential Education package on AFRINIC Number Resources Policy proposals detailed in the following link: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation views of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG participants interventions on the proposals. The education package so proposed intends to condition these participants views on the proposals and their contributions at the PPM and after.... I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual willing to participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to know who is behind each source email address... only opinions expressed in the context of the PDP matter. The substance of contribution really matter. Diversity of views are encouraged. Lack of disagreement is more important than of agreement. Also PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence. RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear on these aspects of the rough consensus process. Section 6 One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough consensus. Section 7 Five people for and one hundred people against might still be rough consensus My African fellows, Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process is legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting was useful to you and allow you to identify the issues, understand what is going on and what Africa needs... I hope you?ve made your minds and now able to speak on your personal capacity.. The real education package is as below: ===== Proposal to establish AFRINIC http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997 IANA report on AFRINIC (Accreditation) https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf AFRINIC constitution https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws Registration Service Agreement https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa AFRINIC policy manual https://afrinic.net/policy/manual AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre AFRINIC PDP https://www.afrinic.net/policy Rough Consensus https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282 AFRINIC current policy proposals https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals RiRs PDPs https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/ RIR comparative policy overview https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/ ============== Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way. Come build African Internet by Africans. As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation, afrinic member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of IPv4 is long established and discussed many times on this list. I hope the fellows would find these discussions in the archives. I call the attention of the board on the repetitive attempts of this resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid intentions... the provisions of the bylaws and RSA must carefully be applied to recall members to acceptable code of conduct. The African Internet community as well as the global Internet community must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy development process and operations. -Wafa -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From badru.ntege at nftconsult.com Tue Jul 2 11:00:23 2019 From: badru.ntege at nftconsult.com (Badru Ntege) Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2019 11:00:23 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: <1478031339.474342.1562059823971.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> References: <1478031339.474342.1562059823971.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> Message-ID: Wafa Thanks for this response. It?s critical that new members open their eyes and minds and make reasoned unbiased contributions to the PDP. Sent from my iPhone On 2 Jul 2019, at 12:35, wafa DAHMANI > wrote: Hi It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in Kampala, were given a confidential Education package on AFRINIC Number Resources Policy proposals detailed in the following link: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation views of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG participants interventions on the proposals. The education package so proposed intends to condition these participants views on the proposals and their contributions at the PPM and after.... I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual willing to participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to know who is behind each source email address... only opinions expressed in the context of the PDP matter. The substance of contribution really matter. Diversity of views are encouraged. Lack of disagreement is more important than of agreement. Also PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence. RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear on these aspects of the rough consensus process. Section 6 One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough consensus. Section 7 Five people for and one hundred people against might still be rough consensus My African fellows, Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process is legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting was useful to you and allow you to identify the issues, understand what is going on and what Africa needs... I hope you?ve made your minds and now able to speak on your personal capacity.. The real education package is as below: ===== Proposal to establish AFRINIC http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997 IANA report on AFRINIC (Accreditation) https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf AFRINIC constitution https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws Registration Service Agreement https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa AFRINIC policy manual https://afrinic.net/policy/manual AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre AFRINIC PDP https://www.afrinic.net/policy Rough Consensus https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282 AFRINIC current policy proposals https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals RiRs PDPs https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/ RIR comparative policy overview https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/ ============== Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way. Come build African Internet by Africans. As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation, afrinic member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of IPv4 is long established and discussed many times on this list. I hope the fellows would find these discussions in the archives. I call the attention of the board on the repetitive attempts of this resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid intentions... the provisions of the bylaws and RSA must carefully be applied to recall members to acceptable code of conduct. The African Internet community as well as the global Internet community must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy development process and operations. -Wafa _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com Tue Jul 2 12:34:14 2019 From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston) Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2019 12:34:14 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: <1478031339.474342.1562059823971.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> References: <1478031339.474342.1562059823971.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> Message-ID: Wafa, So ? let me say this. I see a document here ? which lays out the policies ? and provides a perspective of problems, it also lists the pros and cons. Yes, Lazarus may have used the foundation to lobby for its position, but ? one of the things that I have long accepted in my life is ? if you believe in something ? you have to lobby for it ? and to be frank ? the summary that I see in this document ? is something that by and large ? should have been done long before they got around to it. If I, as an individual, feel strongly about something, I am entirely free to go and advocate for my position. I am also entirely free to sponsor people to come to a public meeting ? and I am entirely free to choose those people as I so wish, if I choose the people who agree with me, well, that?s life ? but it certainly aint against the rules, it is the political nature of internet policy development. Do you think that similar does not happen elsewhere? People lobby for the positions that they care about. It happens in politics, it happens in life, and yet now we want to cry when someone else does the same thing. Let me also say ? it?s not like this hasn?t been happening before ? and I want to quote from the OIF website: IOF organises political activities and actions of multilateral cooperation that benefit French-speaking populations. Yet ? this is an organization that for years has spent money filling the room with people ? and that statement does not say ? is of benefit to Africa ? it does not say is of benefit to the African continent ? it does not say is to the benefit of the continent ? it singles out a single demographic on the continent and says ? we do what we do for their benefit. Now, let me be very clear, if they wish to do that ? I?m actually ok with it ? though I admit I have waivered on this stance ? however, we cannot say ? because it?s a government political organization ? it?s ok ? but when a member chooses to have a foundation ? and sponsor people to the meetings ? and then lobby for the positions that member is passionate about ? suddenly its wrong. That is called hypocrisy. In Point Noire, I watched people walk to the microphone ? with slips of paper and read a comment on a policy ? and then go and sit down ? and the same happened in Botswana. Except, what I found was, when queried on the position that was taken at the microphone, the individual reading what they had off the paper, had patently obviously never read the policy and didn?t understand the position they were taking themselves. So who was behind that? And all of that ? is on video for the world to see ? but ? it was ok then ? suddenly it changes now because we don?t like the individual doing it? Sorry ? this isn?t the way it works ? and let me be clear ? Lu Heng is not a friend of mine, and in fact in Mauritius I had some pretty strong things to say to him to his face, in front of others who will testify to what I said to him ? however ? I respect his rights as a member to participate in what is essentially a democratic process, that means ? I respect his right to lobby for his views, I respect his right to put boots on the ground, and I respect his right to have his say. In the same way ? I respect the right of any member to do that ? and I respect the right of the members to then rebut what is said if they do not agree with it. It is through this lobbying position and through the back and forth that accompanies it, that great policy is born ? it is not through acquiescence, nor is it through the silencing of the rights of others. My view ? if anyone wants to come into the room and have their say ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people want to lobby their positions ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people want to spend money running tv adverts about their positions for all I care ? so be it ? that is the nature of the democratic position. If people want to bus a thousand people who share their views ? again ? so be it ? that is the democratic process. However, it is the community who then need to rebut ? but ? the rebuttal should be on the policy itself. What I see here however, is a rebuttal of policy and a lobbying position taken on the *content* of the policy ? unlike what I have seen time and again in the meetings where the lobbying position has NOTHING to do with the content or the policy. So rather than malign Lazarus for their actions here ? quite frankly, reading this document, and as much as as I have said, Lu and I have some serious differences, I applaud Lazarus for the comprehensive work ? and I applaud them for taking a stance that was based on the policy and I embrace their right to lobby for their position in any way shape or form. That is not to say I agree with the positions taken in this document ? I will reserve my policy comments for the policies and based on my own interpretation of such ? but ? I embrace the fact that at least, it was done based on what was written, and not on personal relationships, personal attacks, demographics, or anything else. So ? to Lazarus ? thank you for a job well done in the fact that you lobbied your position based on the policies ? and left the other garbage behind, which is what we so often see. Finally ? again ? I respect the right to do what they did ? and THAT IS DEMOCRATIC Thanks Andrew From: wafa DAHMANI Sent: Tuesday, 2 July 2019 12:30 To: community-discuss at afrinic.net Cc: rpd at afrinic.net Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship Hi It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in Kampala, were given a confidential Education package on AFRINIC Number Resources Policy proposals detailed in the following link: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation views of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG participants interventions on the proposals. The education package so proposed intends to condition these participants views on the proposals and their contributions at the PPM and after.... I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual willing to participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to know who is behind each source email address... only opinions expressed in the context of the PDP matter. The substance of contribution really matter. Diversity of views are encouraged. Lack of disagreement is more important than of agreement. Also PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence. RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear on these aspects of the rough consensus process. Section 6 One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough consensus. Section 7 Five people for and one hundred people against might still be rough consensus My African fellows, Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process is legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting was useful to you and allow you to identify the issues, understand what is going on and what Africa needs... I hope you?ve made your minds and now able to speak on your personal capacity.. The real education package is as below: ===== Proposal to establish AFRINIC http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997 IANA report on AFRINIC (Accreditation) https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf AFRINIC constitution https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws Registration Service Agreement https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa AFRINIC policy manual https://afrinic.net/policy/manual AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre AFRINIC PDP https://www.afrinic.net/policy Rough Consensus https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282 AFRINIC current policy proposals https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals RiRs PDPs https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/ RIR comparative policy overview https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/ ============== Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way. Come build African Internet by Africans. As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation, afrinic member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of IPv4 is long established and discussed many times on this list. I hope the fellows would find these discussions in the archives. I call the attention of the board on the repetitive attempts of this resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid intentions... the provisions of the bylaws and RSA must carefully be applied to recall members to acceptable code of conduct. The African Internet community as well as the global Internet community must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy development process and operations. -Wafa -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dndannang at gmail.com Tue Jul 2 12:54:57 2019 From: dndannang at gmail.com (DANIEL NANGHAKA) Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2019 15:54:57 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: <1478031339.474342.1562059823971.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> References: <1478031339.474342.1562059823971.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> Message-ID: Thank Wafa for sharing the resources. This is a good insight that members should be educated about the AFRINIC PDP. And further it is critical that Capacity building is done for the respective new members to understand or learn about Policy Development procedures and how the policies are formulated. More to that - the need to drive consensus in a PDP. Many do not understand this. - Daniel K. Nanghaka ? On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 at 12:34, wafa DAHMANI wrote: > Hi > > > > It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus > foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in Kampala, were > given a confidential Education package on AFRINIC Number Resources > Policy proposals detailed in the following link: > > > https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg > > > The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation views > of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG participants interventions > on the proposals. > > > > The education package so proposed intends to condition these participants > views on the proposals and their contributions at the PPM and after.... > > > > I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual willing to > participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to know who is behind > each source email address... only opinions expressed in the context of the > PDP matter. The substance of contribution really matter. Diversity of views > are encouraged. Lack of disagreement is more important than of agreement. > Also PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence. > > > > RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear on these aspects of the rough > consensus process. > > > > Section 6 > > One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough > consensus. > > > > Section 7 > > Five people for and one hundred people against might still be rough > consensus > > > > My African fellows, > > > > Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process is > legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting was useful to > you and allow you to identify the issues, understand what is going on and > what Africa needs... I hope you?ve made your minds and now able to > speak on your personal capacity.. > > > > The real education package is as below: > > ===== > > > > Proposal to establish AFRINIC > > > http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997 > > > > IANA report on AFRINIC (Accreditation) > > https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf > > > > AFRINIC constitution > > https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws > > > > Registration Service Agreement > > https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa > > > > AFRINIC policy manual > > https://afrinic.net/policy/manual > > > > AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM > > https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre > > > > AFRINIC PDP > > https://www.afrinic.net/policy > > > > Rough Consensus > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282 > > > > AFRINIC current policy proposals > > https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals > > > > RiRs PDPs > > https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/ > > > > RIR comparative policy overview > > https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/ > > ============== > > > > Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way. > > > > Come build African Internet by Africans. > > > > As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation, afrinic > member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of IPv4 is long > established and discussed many times on this list. I hope the fellows would > find these discussions in the archives. > > > > I call the attention of the board on the repetitive attempts of this > resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid intentions... the > provisions of the bylaws and RSA must carefully be applied to recall > members to acceptable code of conduct. > > > > The African Internet community as well as the global Internet community > must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy development process > and operations. > > > > > > -Wafa > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From a.v.p at outsideheaven.com Tue Jul 2 13:02:50 2019 From: a.v.p at outsideheaven.com (Anne-vivien Paris) Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2019 21:02:50 +0800 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: References: <1478031339.474342.1562059823971.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> Message-ID: Hi, I would like to clarify the following: 1. There is no any form of NDA required to be signed by our fellow. The materials we distribute are in public domain; everyone can access to it. The content is unbiased and factual and we do not keep it as something confidential. We do not know where you procure this and with what means, but the content is accessible to anyone who place a request on it. All arguments listed on the booklet are selected from discussions on the RDP list with the names of the author given out of consideration of anti-plagiarism and respect. Hence, pros and cons represent the opinion of the community instead of that of the Foundation. 2. The Foundation is a registered NGO in Hong Kong which is independent of any other organisation. The foundation has its own legal entity and structure, and your named cloud innovation does not interfere with Foundation?s affairs. We urge you to reconsider your statement and provide supporting documents/evidences regarding this otherwise we consider this as defamation. 3. Larus Foundation does not represent any party?s single interest. As mentioned in the above, it is a legally registered and recognised NGO which serves the community instead of a single party. Hence, it is unjust to correlate the Foundation with any single party and Foundation has never ?hijack the PDP for its sordid intentions?. Your statement does not have any ground. This can be considered as defamation without any concrete evidenced provided. We support fellows of various nationalities to attend RIR meetings, including but not limited to Tunisia, Uganda, Congo, South Korea and America. We believe the Internet is One and thus all parties in the world are concerned. The Foundation believes that we all work towards a single goal, ie a better Internet irrespective of our nationalities. We sincerely urge you to re-examine and reconsider your statements to prevent any unnecessary understanding within the community. For your reference, Larus Foundation is based in Hong Kong, which serves as an organisation to promote Internet number resources education. We aim to educate the general public, regardless of their age, gender, nationality, race, educational level and background as we believe everyone is a stakeholder in the world of Internet. We uphold a non-selective, fair and transparent principle. We carry out a series of events, including conferences, seminars, workshops and fellowship programme. Our fellowship programme provides support for various parties, particularly students and academics to participate in policy-making and Internet governance conferences. If you are interested about our Foundation, you can find more here: https://www.larusfoundation.org/ Also, you are welcome to apply for our upcoming fellowship programme for AFRINIC 31: https://www.larusfoundation.org/about-the-fellowship/ A brief timeline for your reference: Application Opened 1st July, 2019 First Interview 30th July, 2019 Application Closed 30th July, 2019 Second Interview 18th August, 2019 Education workshop and seminar 3rd September - 21st September, 2019 Final Interview 24th October, 2019 Result & Confirmation 3rd November, 2019 We can also be reached via email and phone. If you have any questions regarding the Foundation and its events, please do not hesitate to contact us. Vivien *Vivien PARIS* *Larus FOUNDATION* p:+44 7746 416450 w: www.larusfoundation.org a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 at 20:36, Andrew Alston wrote: > Wafa, > > So ? let me say this. I see a document here ? which lays out the policies > ? and provides a perspective of problems, it also lists the pros and cons. > Yes, Lazarus may have used the foundation to lobby for its position, but ? > one of the things that I have long accepted in my life is ? if you believe > in something ? you have to lobby for it ? and to be frank ? the summary > that I see in this document ? is something that by and large ? should have > been done long before they got around to it. > > If I, as an individual, feel strongly about something, I am entirely free > to go and advocate for my position. I am also entirely free to sponsor > people to come to a public meeting ? and I am entirely free to choose those > people as I so wish, if I choose the people who agree with me, well, that?s > life ? but it certainly aint against the rules, it is the political nature > of internet policy development. Do you think that similar does not happen > elsewhere? People lobby for the positions that they care about. It > happens in politics, it happens in life, and yet now we want to cry when > someone else does the same thing. > > Let me also say ? it?s not like this hasn?t been happening before ? and I > want to quote from the OIF website: *IOF organises political activities > and actions of multilateral cooperation that benefit French-speaking > populations.* > > Yet ? this is an organization that for years has spent money filling the > room with people ? and that statement does not say ? is of benefit to > Africa ? it does not say is of benefit to the African continent ? it does > not say is to the benefit of the continent ? it singles out a single > demographic on the continent and says ? we do what we do for their > benefit. Now, let me be very clear, if they wish to do that ? I?m > actually ok with it ? though I admit I have waivered on this stance ? > however, we cannot say ? because it?s a government political organization ? > it?s ok ? but when a member chooses to have a foundation ? and sponsor > people to the meetings ? and then lobby for the positions that member is > passionate about ? suddenly its wrong. That is called hypocrisy. > > In Point Noire, I watched people walk to the microphone ? with slips of > paper and read a comment on a policy ? and then go and sit down ? and the > same happened in Botswana. Except, what I found was, when queried on the > position that was taken at the microphone, the individual reading what they > had off the paper, had patently obviously never read the policy and didn?t > understand the position they were taking themselves. So who was behind > that? And all of that ? is on video for the world to see ? but ? it was ok > then ? suddenly it changes now because we don?t like the individual doing > it? > > Sorry ? this isn?t the way it works ? and let me be clear ? Lu Heng is not > a friend of mine, and in fact in Mauritius I had some pretty strong things > to say to him to his face, in front of others who will testify to what I > said to him ? however ? I respect his rights as a member to participate in > what is essentially a democratic process, that means ? I respect his right > to lobby for his views, I respect his right to put boots on the ground, and > I respect his right to have his say. In the same way ? I respect the right > of any member to do that ? and I respect the right of the members to then > rebut what is said if they do not agree with it. It is through this > lobbying position and through the back and forth that accompanies it, that > great policy is born ? it is not through acquiescence, nor is it through > the silencing of the rights of others. > > My view ? if anyone wants to come into the room and have their say ? so be > it ? that is bottom up. If people want to lobby their positions ? so be it > ? that is bottom up. If people want to spend money running tv adverts > about their positions for all I care ? so be it ? that is the nature of the > democratic position. If people want to bus a thousand people who share > their views ? again ? so be it ? that is the democratic process. However, > it is the community who then need to rebut ? but ? the rebuttal should be > on the policy itself. What I see here however, is a rebuttal of policy and > a lobbying position taken on the **content** of the policy ? unlike what > I have seen time and again in the meetings where the lobbying position has > NOTHING to do with the content or the policy. > > So rather than malign Lazarus for their actions here ? quite frankly, > reading this document, and as much as as I have said, Lu and I have some > serious differences, I applaud Lazarus for the comprehensive work ? and I > applaud them for taking a stance that was based on the policy and I embrace > their right to lobby for their position in any way shape or form. That is > not to say I agree with the positions taken in this document ? I will > reserve my policy comments for the policies and based on my own > interpretation of such ? but ? I embrace the fact that at least, it was > done based on what was written, and not on personal relationships, personal > attacks, demographics, or anything else. > > > > So ? to Lazarus ? thank you for a job well done in the fact that you > lobbied your position based on the policies ? and left the other garbage > behind, which is what we so often see. > > > > Finally ? again ? I respect the right to do what they did ? and > > > > *THAT IS DEMOCRATIC* > > > > Thanks > > > > Andrew > > > > *From:* wafa DAHMANI > *Sent:* Tuesday, 2 July 2019 12:30 > *To:* community-discuss at afrinic.net > *Cc:* rpd at afrinic.net > *Subject:* [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship > > > > Hi > > > > It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus > foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in Kampala, were > given a confidential Education package on AFRINIC Number Resources Policy > proposals detailed in the following link: > > > > https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg > > > > The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation views > of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG participants interventions > on the proposals. > > > > The education package so proposed intends to condition these participants > views on the proposals and their contributions at the PPM and after.... > > > > I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual willing to > participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to know who is behind > each source email address... only opinions expressed in the context of the > PDP matter. The substance of contribution really matter. Diversity of views > are encouraged. Lack of disagreement is more important than of agreement. > Also PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence. > > > > RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear on these aspects of the rough > consensus process. > > > > Section 6 > > One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough > consensus. > > > > Section 7 > > Five people for and one hundred people against might still be rough > consensus > > > > My African fellows, > > > > Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process is > legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting was useful to > you and allow you to identify the issues, understand what is going on and > what Africa needs... I hope you?ve made your minds and now able to speak > on your personal capacity.. > > > > The real education package is as below: > > ===== > > > > Proposal to establish AFRINIC > > > http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997 > > > > IANA report on AFRINIC (Accreditation) > > https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf > > > > AFRINIC constitution > > https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws > > > > Registration Service Agreement > > https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa > > > > AFRINIC policy manual > > https://afrinic.net/policy/manual > > > > AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM > > https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre > > > > AFRINIC PDP > > https://www.afrinic.net/policy > > > > Rough Consensus > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282 > > > > AFRINIC current policy proposals > > https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals > > > > RiRs PDPs > > https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/ > > > > RIR comparative policy overview > > https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/ > > ============== > > > > Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way. > > > > Come build African Internet by Africans. > > > > As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation, afrinic > member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of IPv4 is long > established and discussed many times on this list. I hope the fellows would > find these discussions in the archives. > > > > I call the attention of the board on the repetitive attempts of this > resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid intentions... the > provisions of the bylaws and RSA must carefully be applied to recall > members to acceptable code of conduct. > > > > The African Internet community as well as the global Internet community > must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy development process > and operations. > > > > > > -Wafa > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -- *Vivien * *Larus Cloud Service Limited* p:+852 29888918 f:+852 29888368 e:a.v.p at laruscloudservice.net w:laruscloudservice.net/ a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From taiwo.oyewande88 at gmail.com Tue Jul 2 13:25:39 2019 From: taiwo.oyewande88 at gmail.com (Taiwo Oyewande) Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2019 14:25:39 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: References: <1478031339.474342.1562059823971.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> Message-ID: <1A0EEFFC-D29F-4D63-9906-D3743D93411D@gmail.com> Hi all, Taking a good look at this resource, it is obviously a summary of the policies to be discussed. Larus fellowship tends towards promoting the youth - students included-. I think this summary will be a good starting point for new members who are fresh in the policy development process. On this note, i will like to encourage Afrinic to emulate the foundation and come up with an official summary like this before every meeting to enable new and interested members get up to speed quickly. Cheers. Taiwo O > >> On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 at 20:36, Andrew Alston wrote: >> Wafa, >> >> So ? let me say this. I see a document here ? which lays out the policies ? and provides a perspective of problems, it also lists the pros and cons. Yes, Lazarus may have used the foundation to lobby for its position, but ? one of the things that I have long accepted in my life is ? if you believe in something ? you have to lobby for it ? and to be frank ? the summary that I see in this document ? is something that by and large ? should have been done long before they got around to it. >> >> If I, as an individual, feel strongly about something, I am entirely free to go and advocate for my position. I am also entirely free to sponsor people to come to a public meeting ? and I am entirely free to choose those people as I so wish, if I choose the people who agree with me, well, that?s life ? but it certainly aint against the rules, it is the political nature of internet policy development. Do you think that similar does not happen elsewhere? People lobby for the positions that they care about. It happens in politics, it happens in life, and yet now we want to cry when someone else does the same thing. >> >> Let me also say ? it?s not like this hasn?t been happening before ? and I want to quote from the OIF website: IOF organises political activities and actions of multilateral cooperation that benefit French-speaking populations. >> >> Yet ? this is an organization that for years has spent money filling the room with people ? and that statement does not say ? is of benefit to Africa ? it does not say is of benefit to the African continent ? it does not say is to the benefit of the continent ? it singles out a single demographic on the continent and says ? we do what we do for their benefit. Now, let me be very clear, if they wish to do that ? I?m actually ok with it ? though I admit I have waivered on this stance ? however, we cannot say ? because it?s a government political organization ? it?s ok ? but when a member chooses to have a foundation ? and sponsor people to the meetings ? and then lobby for the positions that member is passionate about ? suddenly its wrong. That is called hypocrisy. >> >> In Point Noire, I watched people walk to the microphone ? with slips of paper and read a comment on a policy ? and then go and sit down ? and the same happened in Botswana. Except, what I found was, when queried on the position that was taken at the microphone, the individual reading what they had off the paper, had patently obviously never read the policy and didn?t understand the position they were taking themselves. So who was behind that? And all of that ? is on video for the world to see ? but ? it was ok then ? suddenly it changes now because we don?t like the individual doing it? >> >> Sorry ? this isn?t the way it works ? and let me be clear ? Lu Heng is not a friend of mine, and in fact in Mauritius I had some pretty strong things to say to him to his face, in front of others who will testify to what I said to him ? however ? I respect his rights as a member to participate in what is essentially a democratic process, that means ? I respect his right to lobby for his views, I respect his right to put boots on the ground, and I respect his right to have his say. In the same way ? I respect the right of any member to do that ? and I respect the right of the members to then rebut what is said if they do not agree with it. It is through this lobbying position and through the back and forth that accompanies it, that great policy is born ? it is not through acquiescence, nor is it through the silencing of the rights of others. >> >> My view ? if anyone wants to come into the room and have their say ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people want to lobby their positions ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people want to spend money running tv adverts about their positions for all I care ? so be it ? that is the nature of the democratic position. If people want to bus a thousand people who share their views ? again ? so be it ? that is the democratic process. However, it is the community who then need to rebut ? but ? the rebuttal should be on the policy itself. What I see here however, is a rebuttal of policy and a lobbying position taken on the *content* of the policy ? unlike what I have seen time and again in the meetings where the lobbying position has NOTHING to do with the content or the policy. >> >> So rather than malign Lazarus for their actions here ? quite frankly, reading this document, and as much as as I have said, Lu and I have some serious differences, I applaud Lazarus for the comprehensive work ? and I applaud them for taking a stance that was based on the policy and I embrace their right to lobby for their position in any way shape or form. That is not to say I agree with the positions taken in this document ? I will reserve my policy comments for the policies and based on my own interpretation of such ? but ? I embrace the fact that at least, it was done based on what was written, and not on personal relationships, personal attacks, demographics, or anything else. >> >> >> >> So ? to Lazarus ? thank you for a job well done in the fact that you lobbied your position based on the policies ? and left the other garbage behind, which is what we so often see. >> >> >> >> Finally ? again ? I respect the right to do what they did ? and >> >> >> >> THAT IS DEMOCRATIC >> >> >> >> Thanks >> >> >> >> Andrew >> >> >> >> From: wafa DAHMANI >> Sent: Tuesday, 2 July 2019 12:30 >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net >> Cc: rpd at afrinic.net >> Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship >> >> >> >> Hi >> >> It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in Kampala, were given a confidential Education package on AFRINIC Number Resources Policy proposals detailed in the following link: >> >> >> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg >> >> >> The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation views of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG participants interventions on the proposals. >> >> The education package so proposed intends to condition these participants views on the proposals and their contributions at the PPM and after.... >> >> I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual willing to participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to know who is behind each source email address... only opinions expressed in the context of the PDP matter. The substance of contribution really matter. Diversity of views are encouraged. Lack of disagreement is more important than of agreement. Also PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence. >> >> RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear on these aspects of the rough consensus process. >> >> Section 6 >> One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough consensus. >> >> Section 7 >> Five people for and one hundred people against might still be rough consensus >> >> My African fellows, >> >> Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process is legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting was useful to you and allow you to identify the issues, understand what is going on and what Africa needs... I hope you?ve made your minds and now able to speak on your personal capacity.. >> >> The real education package is as below: >> ===== >> >> Proposal to establish AFRINIC >> http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997 >> >> IANA report on AFRINIC (Accreditation) >> https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf >> >> AFRINIC constitution >> https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws >> >> Registration Service Agreement >> https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa >> >> AFRINIC policy manual >> https://afrinic.net/policy/manual >> >> AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM >> https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre >> >> AFRINIC PDP >> https://www.afrinic.net/policy >> >> Rough Consensus >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282 >> >> AFRINIC current policy proposals >> https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals >> >> RiRs PDPs >> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/ >> >> RIR comparative policy overview >> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/ >> ============== >> >> Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way. >> >> Come build African Internet by Africans. >> >> As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation, afrinic member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of IPv4 is long established and discussed many times on this list. I hope the fellows would find these discussions in the archives. >> >> I call the attention of the board on the repetitive attempts of this resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid intentions... the provisions of the bylaws and RSA must carefully be applied to recall members to acceptable code of conduct. >> >> The African Internet community as well as the global Internet community must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy development process and operations. >> >> >> -Wafa >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > -- > Vivien > Larus Cloud Service Limited > p:+852 29888918 > f:+852 29888368 > e:a.v.p at laruscloudservice.net > w:laruscloudservice.net/ > a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jordi.palet at consulintel.es Tue Jul 2 14:09:47 2019 From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ) Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2019 16:09:47 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Larus foundation fellowship Message-ID: Hi Andrew, I?m not sure to agree with your view. I fully agree on freedom of expression, but there is a fairness and transparency point here. It is about respect to the PDP (and consequently the community). When anyone present a summary of a policy proposal (which has been done already by the authors) you?re directly or indirectly doing your own analysis and arguing for or against based on your own perspective. This is influencing participants, it can be never 100% unbiassed. Everybody is *free* to influence (or as you say lobby), but the fair way to do so is by discussing in the RPD mailing list, which is meant for that. Otherwise why we have the list? If that document was shared in the list, upfront the meeting, instead of being presented only for the fellows, that will had made a difference. Also, looking at the document we may be having part of the information that was provided during that presentation. I think is wonderful that organizations like Larus Foundation may bring people to participate in the meetings, but why this needs to be done by their own instead of they just providing the money to Afrinic, agree in the selections process and not having direct contact with the fellows? I?ve mention about this already long time ago: https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2018/008849.html And by the way, the PDP is not about democracy, but consensus. As a proposals author, I?ve *never* tried to convince anyone outside the PDP list. I think this is the only way to be fair. I got many questions and opinions about the policy proposals in private emails, and my response is always the same: what you tell me here is not so ?useful?, please go to the list. Moreover, I sometimes send tweets about my policy proposals, but in a very neutral way, just informative and clearly stating that the discussion must happen in the list. Example: https://twitter.com/jordipalet/status/1139835324782088192 Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 2/7/19 14:39, "Andrew Alston" escribi?: Wafa, So ? let me say this. I see a document here ? which lays out the policies ? and provides a perspective of problems, it also lists the pros and cons. Yes, Lazarus may have used the foundation to lobby for its position, but ? one of the things that I have long accepted in my life is ? if you believe in something ? you have to lobby for it ? and to be frank ? the summary that I see in this document ? is something that by and large ? should have been done long before they got around to it. If I, as an individual, feel strongly about something, I am entirely free to go and advocate for my position. I am also entirely free to sponsor people to come to a public meeting ? and I am entirely free to choose those people as I so wish, if I choose the people who agree with me, well, that?s life ? but it certainly aint against the rules, it is the political nature of internet policy development. Do you think that similar does not happen elsewhere? People lobby for the positions that they care about. It happens in politics, it happens in life, and yet now we want to cry when someone else does the same thing. Let me also say ? it?s not like this hasn?t been happening before ? and I want to quote from the OIF website: IOF organises political activities and actions of multilateral cooperation that benefit French-speaking populations. Yet ? this is an organization that for years has spent money filling the room with people ? and that statement does not say ? is of benefit to Africa ? it does not say is of benefit to the African continent ? it does not say is to the benefit of the continent ? it singles out a single demographic on the continent and says ? we do what we do for their benefit. Now, let me be very clear, if they wish to do that ? I?m actually ok with it ? though I admit I have waivered on this stance ? however, we cannot say ? because it?s a government political organization ? it?s ok ? but when a member chooses to have a foundation ? and sponsor people to the meetings ? and then lobby for the positions that member is passionate about ? suddenly its wrong. That is called hypocrisy. In Point Noire, I watched people walk to the microphone ? with slips of paper and read a comment on a policy ? and then go and sit down ? and the same happened in Botswana. Except, what I found was, when queried on the position that was taken at the microphone, the individual reading what they had off the paper, had patently obviously never read the policy and didn?t understand the position they were taking themselves. So who was behind that? And all of that ? is on video for the world to see ? but ? it was ok then ? suddenly it changes now because we don?t like the individual doing it? Sorry ? this isn?t the way it works ? and let me be clear ? Lu Heng is not a friend of mine, and in fact in Mauritius I had some pretty strong things to say to him to his face, in front of others who will testify to what I said to him ? however ? I respect his rights as a member to participate in what is essentially a democratic process, that means ? I respect his right to lobby for his views, I respect his right to put boots on the ground, and I respect his right to have his say. In the same way ? I respect the right of any member to do that ? and I respect the right of the members to then rebut what is said if they do not agree with it. It is through this lobbying position and through the back and forth that accompanies it, that great policy is born ? it is not through acquiescence, nor is it through the silencing of the rights of others. My view ? if anyone wants to come into the room and have their say ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people want to lobby their positions ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people want to spend money running tv adverts about their positions for all I care ? so be it ? that is the nature of the democratic position. If people want to bus a thousand people who share their views ? again ? so be it ? that is the democratic process. However, it is the community who then need to rebut ? but ? the rebuttal should be on the policy itself. What I see here however, is a rebuttal of policy and a lobbying position taken on the *content* of the policy ? unlike what I have seen time and again in the meetings where the lobbying position has NOTHING to do with the content or the policy. So rather than malign Lazarus for their actions here ? quite frankly, reading this document, and as much as as I have said, Lu and I have some serious differences, I applaud Lazarus for the comprehensive work ? and I applaud them for taking a stance that was based on the policy and I embrace their right to lobby for their position in any way shape or form. That is not to say I agree with the positions taken in this document ? I will reserve my policy comments for the policies and based on my own interpretation of such ? but ? I embrace the fact that at least, it was done based on what was written, and not on personal relationships, personal attacks, demographics, or anything else. So ? to Lazarus ? thank you for a job well done in the fact that you lobbied your position based on the policies ? and left the other garbage behind, which is what we so often see. Finally ? again ? I respect the right to do what they did ? and THAT IS DEMOCRATIC Thanks Andrew From: wafa DAHMANI Sent: Tuesday, 2 July 2019 12:30 To: community-discuss at afrinic.net Cc: rpd at afrinic.net Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship Hi It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in Kampala, were given a confidential Education package on AFRINIC Number Resources Policy proposals detailed in the following link: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation views of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG participants interventions on the proposals. The education package so proposed intends to condition these participants views on the proposals and their contributions at the PPM and after.... I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual willing to participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to know who is behind each source email address... only opinions expressed in the context of the PDP matter. The substance of contribution really matter. Diversity of views are encouraged. Lack of disagreement is more important than of agreement. Also PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence. RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear on these aspects of the rough consensus process. Section 6 One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough consensus. Section 7 Five people for and one hundred people against might still be rough consensus My African fellows, Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process is legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting was useful to you and allow you to identify the issues, understand what is going on and what Africa needs... I hope you?ve made your minds and now able to speak on your personal capacity.. The real education package is as below: ===== Proposal to establish AFRINIC http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997 IANA report on AFRINIC (Accreditation) https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf AFRINIC constitution https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws Registration Service Agreement https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa AFRINIC policy manual https://afrinic.net/policy/manual AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre AFRINIC PDP https://www.afrinic.net/policy Rough Consensus https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282 AFRINIC current policy proposals https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals RiRs PDPs https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/ RIR comparative policy overview https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/ ============== Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way. Come build African Internet by Africans. As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation, afrinic member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of IPv4 is long established and discussed many times on this list. I hope the fellows would find these discussions in the archives. I call the attention of the board on the repetitive attempts of this resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid intentions... the provisions of the bylaws and RSA must carefully be applied to recall members to acceptable code of conduct. The African Internet community as well as the global Internet community must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy development process and operations. -Wafa _______________________________________________ RPD mailing list RPD at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com Tue Jul 2 15:03:58 2019 From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston) Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2019 15:03:58 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: References: <1478031339.474342.1562059823971.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> Message-ID: Just one final thought on this ? ?I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it? ? Evelyn Beatrice Hall (Friends of Voltaire, 1906) Andrew From: Andrew Alston Sent: Tuesday, 2 July 2019 15:34 To: wafa DAHMANI ; community-discuss at afrinic.net Cc: rpd at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship Wafa, So ? let me say this. I see a document here ? which lays out the policies ? and provides a perspective of problems, it also lists the pros and cons. Yes, Lazarus may have used the foundation to lobby for its position, but ? one of the things that I have long accepted in my life is ? if you believe in something ? you have to lobby for it ? and to be frank ? the summary that I see in this document ? is something that by and large ? should have been done long before they got around to it. If I, as an individual, feel strongly about something, I am entirely free to go and advocate for my position. I am also entirely free to sponsor people to come to a public meeting ? and I am entirely free to choose those people as I so wish, if I choose the people who agree with me, well, that?s life ? but it certainly aint against the rules, it is the political nature of internet policy development. Do you think that similar does not happen elsewhere? People lobby for the positions that they care about. It happens in politics, it happens in life, and yet now we want to cry when someone else does the same thing. Let me also say ? it?s not like this hasn?t been happening before ? and I want to quote from the OIF website: IOF organises political activities and actions of multilateral cooperation that benefit French-speaking populations. Yet ? this is an organization that for years has spent money filling the room with people ? and that statement does not say ? is of benefit to Africa ? it does not say is of benefit to the African continent ? it does not say is to the benefit of the continent ? it singles out a single demographic on the continent and says ? we do what we do for their benefit. Now, let me be very clear, if they wish to do that ? I?m actually ok with it ? though I admit I have waivered on this stance ? however, we cannot say ? because it?s a government political organization ? it?s ok ? but when a member chooses to have a foundation ? and sponsor people to the meetings ? and then lobby for the positions that member is passionate about ? suddenly its wrong. That is called hypocrisy. In Point Noire, I watched people walk to the microphone ? with slips of paper and read a comment on a policy ? and then go and sit down ? and the same happened in Botswana. Except, what I found was, when queried on the position that was taken at the microphone, the individual reading what they had off the paper, had patently obviously never read the policy and didn?t understand the position they were taking themselves. So who was behind that? And all of that ? is on video for the world to see ? but ? it was ok then ? suddenly it changes now because we don?t like the individual doing it? Sorry ? this isn?t the way it works ? and let me be clear ? Lu Heng is not a friend of mine, and in fact in Mauritius I had some pretty strong things to say to him to his face, in front of others who will testify to what I said to him ? however ? I respect his rights as a member to participate in what is essentially a democratic process, that means ? I respect his right to lobby for his views, I respect his right to put boots on the ground, and I respect his right to have his say. In the same way ? I respect the right of any member to do that ? and I respect the right of the members to then rebut what is said if they do not agree with it. It is through this lobbying position and through the back and forth that accompanies it, that great policy is born ? it is not through acquiescence, nor is it through the silencing of the rights of others. My view ? if anyone wants to come into the room and have their say ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people want to lobby their positions ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people want to spend money running tv adverts about their positions for all I care ? so be it ? that is the nature of the democratic position. If people want to bus a thousand people who share their views ? again ? so be it ? that is the democratic process. However, it is the community who then need to rebut ? but ? the rebuttal should be on the policy itself. What I see here however, is a rebuttal of policy and a lobbying position taken on the *content* of the policy ? unlike what I have seen time and again in the meetings where the lobbying position has NOTHING to do with the content or the policy. So rather than malign Lazarus for their actions here ? quite frankly, reading this document, and as much as as I have said, Lu and I have some serious differences, I applaud Lazarus for the comprehensive work ? and I applaud them for taking a stance that was based on the policy and I embrace their right to lobby for their position in any way shape or form. That is not to say I agree with the positions taken in this document ? I will reserve my policy comments for the policies and based on my own interpretation of such ? but ? I embrace the fact that at least, it was done based on what was written, and not on personal relationships, personal attacks, demographics, or anything else. So ? to Lazarus ? thank you for a job well done in the fact that you lobbied your position based on the policies ? and left the other garbage behind, which is what we so often see. Finally ? again ? I respect the right to do what they did ? and THAT IS DEMOCRATIC Thanks Andrew From: wafa DAHMANI > Sent: Tuesday, 2 July 2019 12:30 To: community-discuss at afrinic.net Cc: rpd at afrinic.net Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship Hi It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in Kampala, were given a confidential Education package on AFRINIC Number Resources Policy proposals detailed in the following link: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation views of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG participants interventions on the proposals. The education package so proposed intends to condition these participants views on the proposals and their contributions at the PPM and after.... I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual willing to participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to know who is behind each source email address... only opinions expressed in the context of the PDP matter. The substance of contribution really matter. Diversity of views are encouraged. Lack of disagreement is more important than of agreement. Also PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence. RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear on these aspects of the rough consensus process. Section 6 One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough consensus. Section 7 Five people for and one hundred people against might still be rough consensus My African fellows, Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process is legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting was useful to you and allow you to identify the issues, understand what is going on and what Africa needs... I hope you?ve made your minds and now able to speak on your personal capacity.. The real education package is as below: ===== Proposal to establish AFRINIC http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997 IANA report on AFRINIC (Accreditation) https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf AFRINIC constitution https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws Registration Service Agreement https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa AFRINIC policy manual https://afrinic.net/policy/manual AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre AFRINIC PDP https://www.afrinic.net/policy Rough Consensus https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282 AFRINIC current policy proposals https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals RiRs PDPs https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/ RIR comparative policy overview https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/ ============== Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way. Come build African Internet by Africans. As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation, afrinic member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of IPv4 is long established and discussed many times on this list. I hope the fellows would find these discussions in the archives. I call the attention of the board on the repetitive attempts of this resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid intentions... the provisions of the bylaws and RSA must carefully be applied to recall members to acceptable code of conduct. The African Internet community as well as the global Internet community must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy development process and operations. -Wafa -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dontommy24 at gmail.com Tue Jul 2 15:20:50 2019 From: dontommy24 at gmail.com (Tom Ochang) Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2019 16:20:50 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: References: <1478031339.474342.1562059823971.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> Message-ID: Hello there, I am an advocate for freedom of speech and expression and I think that what Larus foundation did was to do a summary of the policies to enable it's fellows to understand the policies better before discussions during the PDP and concerning the 16million IP addresses, I don't think Larus Stole them but I guess they were acquired legally by Larus foundation. Finally, I urge Larus foundation to put more effort in making summaries of all the policies that are meant to be discussed during the PDP and also place it in a public domain for newbies. ..Tom Ochang Nigeria. On Tue, 2 Jul 2019, 16:04 Andrew Alston, wrote: > Just one final thought on this ? > > ?I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right > to say it? ? Evelyn Beatrice Hall (Friends of Voltaire, 1906) > > Andrew > > > > > > *From:* Andrew Alston > *Sent:* Tuesday, 2 July 2019 15:34 > *To:* wafa DAHMANI ; community-discuss at afrinic.net > *Cc:* rpd at afrinic.net > *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship > > > > Wafa, > > So ? let me say this. I see a document here ? which lays out the policies > ? and provides a perspective of problems, it also lists the pros and cons. > Yes, Lazarus may have used the foundation to lobby for its position, but ? > one of the things that I have long accepted in my life is ? if you believe > in something ? you have to lobby for it ? and to be frank ? the summary > that I see in this document ? is something that by and large ? should have > been done long before they got around to it. > > If I, as an individual, feel strongly about something, I am entirely free > to go and advocate for my position. I am also entirely free to sponsor > people to come to a public meeting ? and I am entirely free to choose those > people as I so wish, if I choose the people who agree with me, well, that?s > life ? but it certainly aint against the rules, it is the political nature > of internet policy development. Do you think that similar does not happen > elsewhere? People lobby for the positions that they care about. It > happens in politics, it happens in life, and yet now we want to cry when > someone else does the same thing. > > Let me also say ? it?s not like this hasn?t been happening before ? and I > want to quote from the OIF website: *IOF organises political activities > and actions of multilateral cooperation that benefit French-speaking > populations.* > > Yet ? this is an organization that for years has spent money filling the > room with people ? and that statement does not say ? is of benefit to > Africa ? it does not say is of benefit to the African continent ? it does > not say is to the benefit of the continent ? it singles out a single > demographic on the continent and says ? we do what we do for their > benefit. Now, let me be very clear, if they wish to do that ? I?m > actually ok with it ? though I admit I have waivered on this stance ? > however, we cannot say ? because it?s a government political organization ? > it?s ok ? but when a member chooses to have a foundation ? and sponsor > people to the meetings ? and then lobby for the positions that member is > passionate about ? suddenly its wrong. That is called hypocrisy. > > In Point Noire, I watched people walk to the microphone ? with slips of > paper and read a comment on a policy ? and then go and sit down ? and the > same happened in Botswana. Except, what I found was, when queried on the > position that was taken at the microphone, the individual reading what they > had off the paper, had patently obviously never read the policy and didn?t > understand the position they were taking themselves. So who was behind > that? And all of that ? is on video for the world to see ? but ? it was ok > then ? suddenly it changes now because we don?t like the individual doing > it? > > Sorry ? this isn?t the way it works ? and let me be clear ? Lu Heng is not > a friend of mine, and in fact in Mauritius I had some pretty strong things > to say to him to his face, in front of others who will testify to what I > said to him ? however ? I respect his rights as a member to participate in > what is essentially a democratic process, that means ? I respect his right > to lobby for his views, I respect his right to put boots on the ground, and > I respect his right to have his say. In the same way ? I respect the right > of any member to do that ? and I respect the right of the members to then > rebut what is said if they do not agree with it. It is through this > lobbying position and through the back and forth that accompanies it, that > great policy is born ? it is not through acquiescence, nor is it through > the silencing of the rights of others. > > My view ? if anyone wants to come into the room and have their say ? so be > it ? that is bottom up. If people want to lobby their positions ? so be it > ? that is bottom up. If people want to spend money running tv adverts > about their positions for all I care ? so be it ? that is the nature of the > democratic position. If people want to bus a thousand people who share > their views ? again ? so be it ? that is the democratic process. However, > it is the community who then need to rebut ? but ? the rebuttal should be > on the policy itself. What I see here however, is a rebuttal of policy and > a lobbying position taken on the **content** of the policy ? unlike what > I have seen time and again in the meetings where the lobbying position has > NOTHING to do with the content or the policy. > > So rather than malign Lazarus for their actions here ? quite frankly, > reading this document, and as much as as I have said, Lu and I have some > serious differences, I applaud Lazarus for the comprehensive work ? and I > applaud them for taking a stance that was based on the policy and I embrace > their right to lobby for their position in any way shape or form. That is > not to say I agree with the positions taken in this document ? I will > reserve my policy comments for the policies and based on my own > interpretation of such ? but ? I embrace the fact that at least, it was > done based on what was written, and not on personal relationships, personal > attacks, demographics, or anything else. > > > > So ? to Lazarus ? thank you for a job well done in the fact that you > lobbied your position based on the policies ? and left the other garbage > behind, which is what we so often see. > > > > Finally ? again ? I respect the right to do what they did ? and > > > > *THAT IS DEMOCRATIC* > > > > Thanks > > > > Andrew > > > > *From:* wafa DAHMANI > *Sent:* Tuesday, 2 July 2019 12:30 > *To:* community-discuss at afrinic.net > *Cc:* rpd at afrinic.net > *Subject:* [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship > > > > Hi > > > > It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus > foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in Kampala, were > given a confidential Education package on AFRINIC Number Resources Policy > proposals detailed in the following link: > > > > https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg > > > > The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation views > of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG participants interventions > on the proposals. > > > > The education package so proposed intends to condition these participants > views on the proposals and their contributions at the PPM and after.... > > > > I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual willing to > participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to know who is behind > each source email address... only opinions expressed in the context of the > PDP matter. The substance of contribution really matter. Diversity of views > are encouraged. Lack of disagreement is more important than of agreement. > Also PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence. > > > > RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear on these aspects of the rough > consensus process. > > > > Section 6 > > One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough > consensus. > > > > Section 7 > > Five people for and one hundred people against might still be rough > consensus > > > > My African fellows, > > > > Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process is > legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting was useful to > you and allow you to identify the issues, understand what is going on and > what Africa needs... I hope you?ve made your minds and now able to speak > on your personal capacity.. > > > > The real education package is as below: > > ===== > > > > Proposal to establish AFRINIC > > > http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997 > > > > IANA report on AFRINIC (Accreditation) > > https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf > > > > AFRINIC constitution > > https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws > > > > Registration Service Agreement > > https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa > > > > AFRINIC policy manual > > https://afrinic.net/policy/manual > > > > AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM > > https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre > > > > AFRINIC PDP > > https://www.afrinic.net/policy > > > > Rough Consensus > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282 > > > > AFRINIC current policy proposals > > https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals > > > > RiRs PDPs > > https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/ > > > > RIR comparative policy overview > > https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/ > > ============== > > > > Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way. > > > > Come build African Internet by Africans. > > > > As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation, afrinic > member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of IPv4 is long > established and discussed many times on this list. I hope the fellows would > find these discussions in the archives. > > > > I call the attention of the board on the repetitive attempts of this > resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid intentions... the > provisions of the bylaws and RSA must carefully be applied to recall > members to acceptable code of conduct. > > > > The African Internet community as well as the global Internet community > must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy development process > and operations. > > > > > > -Wafa > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chii.ngek at gmail.com Tue Jul 2 17:33:06 2019 From: chii.ngek at gmail.com (Augustine CHII Ngek) Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2019 18:33:06 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: <1478031339.474342.1562059823971.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> References: <1478031339.474342.1562059823971.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> Message-ID: Hi everyone, hello Wafa I am happy you have brought these resources to people like myself new to AFRINIC business. Thanks so much for the educational materials. A lot of talking goes on here but I am sure some people can talk now with understanding. To me for whatever reason the fellowship was for, the provision of these materials surpasses it all. Teach the community or do something to the community and you can get the community's support in any matter that come up. We shall judge you who came into the board by what you shall do to make AFRINIC stronger against what is suspected. We are interested at discussions that will push AFRINIC forward. People have been voted into board so discussions concerning what the community wants AFRINIC to be at the end of their mandate should start now. Please let the discussion about people end, yes education for the next African leaders! NGEK Augustine CHII Yaounde Cameroon On Tue, 2 Jul 2019, 10:35 wafa DAHMANI, wrote: > Hi > > > > It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus > foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in Kampala, were > given a confidential Education package on AFRINIC Number Resources > Policy proposals detailed in the following link: > > > https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg > > > The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation views > of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG participants interventions > on the proposals. > > > > The education package so proposed intends to condition these participants > views on the proposals and their contributions at the PPM and after.... > > > > I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual willing to > participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to know who is behind > each source email address... only opinions expressed in the context of the > PDP matter. The substance of contribution really matter. Diversity of views > are encouraged. Lack of disagreement is more important than of agreement. > Also PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence. > > > > RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear on these aspects of the rough > consensus process. > > > > Section 6 > > One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough > consensus. > > > > Section 7 > > Five people for and one hundred people against might still be rough > consensus > > > > My African fellows, > > > > Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process is > legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting was useful to > you and allow you to identify the issues, understand what is going on and > what Africa needs... I hope you?ve made your minds and now able to > speak on your personal capacity.. > > > > The real education package is as below: > > ===== > > > > Proposal to establish AFRINIC > > > http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997 > > > > IANA report on AFRINIC (Accreditation) > > https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf > > > > AFRINIC constitution > > https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws > > > > Registration Service Agreement > > https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa > > > > AFRINIC policy manual > > https://afrinic.net/policy/manual > > > > AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM > > https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre > > > > AFRINIC PDP > > https://www.afrinic.net/policy > > > > Rough Consensus > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282 > > > > AFRINIC current policy proposals > > https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals > > > > RiRs PDPs > > https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/ > > > > RIR comparative policy overview > > https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/ > > ============== > > > > Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way. > > > > Come build African Internet by Africans. > > > > As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation, afrinic > member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of IPv4 is long > established and discussed many times on this list. I hope the fellows would > find these discussions in the archives. > > > > I call the attention of the board on the repetitive attempts of this > resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid intentions... the > provisions of the bylaws and RSA must carefully be applied to recall > members to acceptable code of conduct. > > > > The African Internet community as well as the global Internet community > must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy development process > and operations. > > > > > > -Wafa > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Tue Jul 2 18:06:11 2019 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2019 21:06:11 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: References: <1478031339.474342.1562059823971.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Jul 2019, 16:04 Anne-vivien Paris, wrote: > > If you have any questions regarding the Foundation and its events, please > do not hesitate to contact us. > A quick one Anne-vivien Paris if you dont mind. I am curious to know if you have supported similar activities and events in other RIR other than AfriNIC? Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ousmane at musatesa.net Tue Jul 2 18:36:53 2019 From: ousmane at musatesa.net (Ousmane M. TESSA) Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2019 20:36:53 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: References: <1478031339.474342.1562059823971.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> Message-ID: <20190702203653.Horde.w8XYOZ5zj0KYbKXU_Q9euLb@musatesa.net> Huumm! Noah. Better ask difference between "sponsorship to educate newcomers" or lobbying to push specific agenda in Africa. Elsewhere, the fear of Justice will deter most of people to even think about this trick. Ousmane TESSA Noah a ?crit?: > On Tue, 2 Jul 2019, 16:04 Anne-vivien Paris, > wrote: > >> >> If you have any questions regarding the Foundation and its events, please >> do not hesitate to contact us. >> > > A quick one Anne-vivien Paris if you dont mind. > > I am curious to know if you have supported similar activities and events in > other RIR other than AfriNIC? > > Noah -- ************************************************** Dr Ousmane MOUSSA TESSA D?partement de math?matiques et d'informatique Universit? A. Moumouni, Niamey, NIGER **************************************************** Adresse postale: B.P. 10.111 Niamey, NIGER T?l?phone (domicile): +227 20 31 52 28 (mobile) : +227 93 77 74 93 / 91 49 16 39 / 96 27 99 92 **************************************************** E-mail: ousmane(at)musatesa.net ou musatesa(at)yahoo.com Skype : musatesa ************************************************ From yakmutd at googlemail.com Tue Jul 2 18:53:39 2019 From: yakmutd at googlemail.com (Daniel Yakmut) Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2019 19:53:39 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: References: <1478031339.474342.1562059823971.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> Message-ID: Pls Tom, note that Larus Cloud and Larus Foundation are different entities. Just for the records. Daniel On Tue, Jul 2, 2019, 4:24 PM Tom Ochang wrote: > Hello there, > I am an advocate for freedom of speech and expression and I think > that what Larus foundation did was to do a summary of the policies to > enable it's fellows to understand the policies better before discussions > during the PDP and concerning the 16million IP addresses, I don't think > Larus Stole them but I guess they were acquired legally by Larus > foundation. Finally, I urge Larus foundation to put more effort in making > summaries of all the policies that are meant to be discussed during the PDP > and also place it in a public domain for newbies. > > > ..Tom Ochang > Nigeria. > > On Tue, 2 Jul 2019, 16:04 Andrew Alston, > wrote: > >> Just one final thought on this ? >> >> ?I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right >> to say it? ? Evelyn Beatrice Hall (Friends of Voltaire, 1906) >> >> Andrew >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Andrew Alston >> *Sent:* Tuesday, 2 July 2019 15:34 >> *To:* wafa DAHMANI ; community-discuss at afrinic.net >> *Cc:* rpd at afrinic.net >> *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship >> >> >> >> Wafa, >> >> So ? let me say this. I see a document here ? which lays out the >> policies ? and provides a perspective of problems, it also lists the pros >> and cons. Yes, Lazarus may have used the foundation to lobby for its >> position, but ? one of the things that I have long accepted in my life is ? >> if you believe in something ? you have to lobby for it ? and to be frank ? >> the summary that I see in this document ? is something that by and large ? >> should have been done long before they got around to it. >> >> If I, as an individual, feel strongly about something, I am entirely free >> to go and advocate for my position. I am also entirely free to sponsor >> people to come to a public meeting ? and I am entirely free to choose those >> people as I so wish, if I choose the people who agree with me, well, that?s >> life ? but it certainly aint against the rules, it is the political nature >> of internet policy development. Do you think that similar does not happen >> elsewhere? People lobby for the positions that they care about. It >> happens in politics, it happens in life, and yet now we want to cry when >> someone else does the same thing. >> >> Let me also say ? it?s not like this hasn?t been happening before ? and I >> want to quote from the OIF website: *IOF organises political activities >> and actions of multilateral cooperation that benefit French-speaking >> populations.* >> >> Yet ? this is an organization that for years has spent money filling the >> room with people ? and that statement does not say ? is of benefit to >> Africa ? it does not say is of benefit to the African continent ? it does >> not say is to the benefit of the continent ? it singles out a single >> demographic on the continent and says ? we do what we do for their >> benefit. Now, let me be very clear, if they wish to do that ? I?m >> actually ok with it ? though I admit I have waivered on this stance ? >> however, we cannot say ? because it?s a government political organization ? >> it?s ok ? but when a member chooses to have a foundation ? and sponsor >> people to the meetings ? and then lobby for the positions that member is >> passionate about ? suddenly its wrong. That is called hypocrisy. >> >> In Point Noire, I watched people walk to the microphone ? with slips of >> paper and read a comment on a policy ? and then go and sit down ? and the >> same happened in Botswana. Except, what I found was, when queried on the >> position that was taken at the microphone, the individual reading what they >> had off the paper, had patently obviously never read the policy and didn?t >> understand the position they were taking themselves. So who was behind >> that? And all of that ? is on video for the world to see ? but ? it was ok >> then ? suddenly it changes now because we don?t like the individual doing >> it? >> >> Sorry ? this isn?t the way it works ? and let me be clear ? Lu Heng is >> not a friend of mine, and in fact in Mauritius I had some pretty strong >> things to say to him to his face, in front of others who will testify to >> what I said to him ? however ? I respect his rights as a member to >> participate in what is essentially a democratic process, that means ? I >> respect his right to lobby for his views, I respect his right to put boots >> on the ground, and I respect his right to have his say. In the same way ? >> I respect the right of any member to do that ? and I respect the right of >> the members to then rebut what is said if they do not agree with it. It >> is through this lobbying position and through the back and forth that >> accompanies it, that great policy is born ? it is not through acquiescence, >> nor is it through the silencing of the rights of others. >> >> My view ? if anyone wants to come into the room and have their say ? so >> be it ? that is bottom up. If people want to lobby their positions ? so be >> it ? that is bottom up. If people want to spend money running tv adverts >> about their positions for all I care ? so be it ? that is the nature of the >> democratic position. If people want to bus a thousand people who share >> their views ? again ? so be it ? that is the democratic process. However, >> it is the community who then need to rebut ? but ? the rebuttal should be >> on the policy itself. What I see here however, is a rebuttal of policy and >> a lobbying position taken on the **content** of the policy ? unlike what >> I have seen time and again in the meetings where the lobbying position has >> NOTHING to do with the content or the policy. >> >> So rather than malign Lazarus for their actions here ? quite frankly, >> reading this document, and as much as as I have said, Lu and I have some >> serious differences, I applaud Lazarus for the comprehensive work ? and I >> applaud them for taking a stance that was based on the policy and I embrace >> their right to lobby for their position in any way shape or form. That is >> not to say I agree with the positions taken in this document ? I will >> reserve my policy comments for the policies and based on my own >> interpretation of such ? but ? I embrace the fact that at least, it was >> done based on what was written, and not on personal relationships, personal >> attacks, demographics, or anything else. >> >> >> >> So ? to Lazarus ? thank you for a job well done in the fact that you >> lobbied your position based on the policies ? and left the other garbage >> behind, which is what we so often see. >> >> >> >> Finally ? again ? I respect the right to do what they did ? and >> >> >> >> *THAT IS DEMOCRATIC* >> >> >> >> Thanks >> >> >> >> Andrew >> >> >> >> *From:* wafa DAHMANI >> *Sent:* Tuesday, 2 July 2019 12:30 >> *To:* community-discuss at afrinic.net >> *Cc:* rpd at afrinic.net >> *Subject:* [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship >> >> >> >> Hi >> >> >> >> It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus >> foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in Kampala, were >> given a confidential Education package on AFRINIC Number Resources Policy >> proposals detailed in the following link: >> >> >> >> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg >> >> >> >> The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation views >> of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG participants interventions >> on the proposals. >> >> >> >> The education package so proposed intends to condition these participants >> views on the proposals and their contributions at the PPM and after.... >> >> >> >> I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual willing to >> participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to know who is behind >> each source email address... only opinions expressed in the context of the >> PDP matter. The substance of contribution really matter. Diversity of views >> are encouraged. Lack of disagreement is more important than of agreement. >> Also PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence. >> >> >> >> RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear on these aspects of the rough >> consensus process. >> >> >> >> Section 6 >> >> One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough >> consensus. >> >> >> >> Section 7 >> >> Five people for and one hundred people against might still be rough >> consensus >> >> >> >> My African fellows, >> >> >> >> Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process is >> legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting was useful to >> you and allow you to identify the issues, understand what is going on and >> what Africa needs... I hope you?ve made your minds and now able to speak >> on your personal capacity.. >> >> >> >> The real education package is as below: >> >> ===== >> >> >> >> Proposal to establish AFRINIC >> >> >> http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997 >> >> >> >> IANA report on AFRINIC (Accreditation) >> >> https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf >> >> >> >> AFRINIC constitution >> >> https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws >> >> >> >> Registration Service Agreement >> >> https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa >> >> >> >> AFRINIC policy manual >> >> https://afrinic.net/policy/manual >> >> >> >> AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM >> >> https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre >> >> >> >> AFRINIC PDP >> >> https://www.afrinic.net/policy >> >> >> >> Rough Consensus >> >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282 >> >> >> >> AFRINIC current policy proposals >> >> https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals >> >> >> >> RiRs PDPs >> >> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/ >> >> >> >> RIR comparative policy overview >> >> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/ >> >> ============== >> >> >> >> Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way. >> >> >> >> Come build African Internet by Africans. >> >> >> >> As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation, afrinic >> member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of IPv4 is long >> established and discussed many times on this list. I hope the fellows would >> find these discussions in the archives. >> >> >> >> I call the attention of the board on the repetitive attempts of this >> resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid intentions... the >> provisions of the bylaws and RSA must carefully be applied to recall >> members to acceptable code of conduct. >> >> >> >> The African Internet community as well as the global Internet community >> must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy development process >> and operations. >> >> >> >> >> >> -Wafa >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > _______________________________________________ > RPD mailing list > RPD at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Tue Jul 2 18:55:10 2019 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2019 21:55:10 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Jul 2019, 17:11 JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss, < community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > > When anyone present a summary of a policy proposal (which has been done > already by the authors) you?re directly or indirectly doing your own > analysis and arguing for or against based on your own perspective. This is > influencing participants, it can be never 100% unbiassed. > +1 Jordi I believe Wafa has provided far much better educational materials (unbiassed) on the policy development process to all the newbie's who can parse through and understand through those various links the origins of AfriNIC and how the entire pdp process works. If anything, new folks would find the rpd list and its archives even more educational than a well documented and somewhat misleading document which is suspect. I have been party to various working groups that lobby for or against some policies which is completely fine but the Larus Foundation approach is on some next level and seriously undermines the entire pdp process. Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Tue Jul 2 19:42:04 2019 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2019 22:42:04 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: <20190702203653.Horde.w8XYOZ5zj0KYbKXU_Q9euLb@musatesa.net> References: <1478031339.474342.1562059823971.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> <20190702203653.Horde.w8XYOZ5zj0KYbKXU_Q9euLb@musatesa.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 2 Jul 2019, 21:37 Ousmane M. TESSA, wrote: > Huumm! Noah. > Better ask difference between "sponsorship to educate newcomers" or > lobbying to push specific agenda in Africa. > Elsewhere, the fear of Justice will deter most of people to even think > about this trick. > Tessa While I wait for Viven response of their activity beyond Afrinic service region... I have had to go to the foundation website and the 5th faq question specifically targets folks from Africa.... how attractive is that.! Have we become this vulnerable? https://www.larusfoundation.org/faq/ Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jordi.palet at consulintel.es Tue Jul 2 20:20:23 2019 From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ) Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2019 22:20:23 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Actually, I think this is something to be done by Afrinic, with the help of PDP chairs and policy proposal authors. The goal is not to convince them about *any* policy proposal, just to have more open time for openly discussing them, and mainly oriented to newcomers, but not only. I?ve actually suggested (several times) for the last couple of years, some of those activities, that I?ve suggested as well in other RIRs and have been implemented already, with a great success. Up to now, it has never been done, despite how much I?ve insisted (staff and co-chairs can confirm that I?ve once and again provided lots of those ideas). Here is a copy & paste of an email about that with the staff: ? concrete actions some of the in every meeting: ??? ????1) Setting up open sessions for discussion with policy proposal authors. The idea is that all the authors (willing to contribute) have a short explanation of each policy proposal (no slides, a common slide with titles of all policy proposals just for reference), and they can discuss openly with the participants. There is not any decision process here. ??? In order to plan agenda, I suggest doing this after the session for newcomers and/or sponsored fellows, same meeting room, so the people don't need to move, make it as easier as possible for them. In LACNIC we did that on Sunday evening because most of the folks travel on the morning. Distances and flights aren't the same in this region, so we should consider that. ??? ????2) Setting up specific tables for lunch for the same. Similar to above, so people with interest or questions about policy proposal, can sit down with authors to have a more open discussion. ??? ????3) Group Dynamics. Take newcomers and other people interested in the PDP. One morning before the policy-day. Create 3-4 small groups depending on how many folks participate (may be more if there are more people, but you need one staff or co-chair for each group), and each group should work in "understanding" a different policy proposal, looking for pros-cons, and trying to "develop" consensus on it and then presenting shortly their results to all the groups. The idea is that they get used to the process and can bring their views to the policy day. As the previous ones, this is not a formal part of the PDP. But in LACNIC has been useful because new people get engaged in the list and in the mics of the meeting. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 2/7/19 20:55, "Noah" escribi?: On Tue, 2 Jul 2019, 17:11 JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss, wrote: When anyone present a summary of a policy proposal (which has been done already by the authors) you?re directly or indirectly doing your own analysis and arguing for or against based on your own perspective. This is influencing participants, it can be never 100% unbiassed. +1 Jordi I believe Wafa has provided far much better educational materials (unbiassed) on the policy development process to all the newbie's who can parse through and understand through those various links the origins of AfriNIC and how the entire pdp process works. If anything, new folks would find the rpd list and its archives even more educational than a well documented and somewhat misleading document which is suspect. I have been party to various working groups that lobby for or against some policies which is completely fine but the Larus Foundation approach is on some next level and seriously undermines the entire pdp process. Noah ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ousmane at musatesa.net Wed Jul 3 08:17:08 2019 From: ousmane at musatesa.net (Ousmane M. TESSA) Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2019 10:17:08 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20190703101708.Horde.I_L4fc5WmS5w2928G6OEWVA@musatesa.net> A+? Jordi! As an academic, most useful educational materials to leraners community have to be FAIR (findable accessible interoperable and reusable)! So selective use of filtered and uncorrect "quoted" opinions have a flavour of ... project! Those who say that they come as samaritain to "help" must bear in mind that AfriNIC community is more agile and smart than they think! RESPECT! RESPECT! "Shouting is not a act of vitality"! Dr Ousmane TESSA JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss a ?crit?: > Actually, I think this is something to be done by Afrinic, with the > help of PDP chairs and policy proposal authors. The goal is not to > convince them about *ANY* policy proposal, just to have more open > time for openly discussing them, and mainly oriented to newcomers, > but not only. > > ? > > ? > > ? > > ? > > I?ve actually suggested (several times) for the last couple of > years, some of those activities, that I?ve suggested as well in > other RIRs and have been implemented already, with a great success. > Up to now, it has never been done, despite how much I?ve insisted > (staff and co-chairs can confirm that I?ve once and again provided > lots of those ideas). > > ? > > ? > > ? > > ? > > Here is a copy & paste of an email about that with the staff: > > ? > > ? > > ? > > ? > > ? concrete actions some of the in every meeting: > > ? > > ??? > > ? > > ????1) Setting up open sessions for discussion with policy > proposal authors. The idea is that all the authors (willing to > contribute) have a short explanation of each policy proposal (no > slides, a common slide with titles of all policy proposals just for > reference), and they can discuss openly with the participants. There > is not any decision process here. > > ? > > ? > > ? > > ? > > ??? In order to plan agenda, I suggest doing this after the > session for newcomers and/or sponsored fellows, same meeting room, > so the people don't need to move, make it as easier as possible for > them. In LACNIC we did that on Sunday evening because most of the > folks travel on the morning. Distances and flights aren't the same > in this region, so we should consider that. > > ? > > ??? > > ? > > ????2) Setting up specific tables for lunch for the same. Similar > to above, so people with interest or questions about policy > proposal, can sit down with authors to have a more open discussion. > > ? > > ??? > > ? > > ????3) Group Dynamics. Take newcomers and other people interested > in the PDP. One morning before the policy-day. Create 3-4 small > groups depending on how many folks participate (may be more if there > are more people, but you need one staff or co-chair for each group), > and each group should work in "understanding" a different policy > proposal, looking for pros-cons, and trying to "develop" consensus > on it and then presenting shortly their results to all the groups. > The idea is that they get used to the process and can bring their > views to the policy day. As the previous ones, this is not a formal > part of the PDP. But in LACNIC has been useful because new people > get engaged in the list and in the mics of the meeting. > > ? > > ? > > ? > > ? > > ? > > ? > > ? > > Regards, > > ? > > Jordi > > ? > > @jordipalet > > ? > > ? > > ? > > ? > > ? > > ? > > ? > > ? > > ? > > ? > > El 2/7/19 20:55, "Noah" escribi?: > > ? > > > ? > > ? > > ? > > > ? > > ? > > ? > > On Tue, 2 Jul 2019, 17:11 JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via > Community-Discuss, wrote: > > ? > >> ? >> >> ? >> >> ? >> >> When anyone present a summary of a policy proposal (which >> has been done already by the authors) you?re directly or indirectly >> doing your own analysis and arguing for or against based on your >> own perspective. This is influencing participants, it can be never >> 100% unbiassed. >> >> ? > > > +1 Jordi? > > ? > > > ? > > ? > > ? > > > I believe Wafa has provided far much better educational > materials (unbiassed) on the policy development process to?all the > newbie's who can parse through and understand through those various > links the origins of AfriNIC and how the entire pdp process works. > > ? > > > ? > > ? > > ? > > > If anything, new folks would find the rpd list and its archives > even more educational than a well documented and somewhat misleading > document which is suspect. > > ? > > > ? > > ? > > ? > > > I have been party to various?working groups that lobby for or > against some policies which is completely fine but the Larus > Foundation approach is on some next level and seriously undermines > the entire pdp process. > > ? > > > ? > > ? > > ? > > > Noah > > ? > > ********************************************** > IPv4 is over > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > http://www.theipv6company.com > The IPv6 Company > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged > or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive > use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty > authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents > of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is > strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If > you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, > copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, > even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, > will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the > original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. > ? ************************************************** Dr Ousmane MOUSSA TESSA D?partement de math?matiques et d'informatique Universit? A. Moumouni, Niamey, NIGER **************************************************** Adresse postale: B.P. 10.111 Niamey, NIGER T?l?phone (domicile): +227 20 31 52 28 ? ? ? ? ? (mobile) :? +227 93 77 74 93 /? 91 49 16? 39 / 96 27 99 92 **************************************************** E-mail: ousmane(at)musatesa.net ou musatesa(at)yahoo.com Skype : musatesa ************************************************ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sami.salih at outlook.com Wed Jul 3 08:41:19 2019 From: sami.salih at outlook.com (Sami Salih) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 08:41:19 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: <20190703101708.Horde.I_L4fc5WmS5w2928G6OEWVA@musatesa.net> References: , <20190703101708.Horde.I_L4fc5WmS5w2928G6OEWVA@musatesa.net> Message-ID: Salam, If I remember well, the colonists also came to "help". To help someone/nation you need to be humble enough to give them the abstract things (Materials in this case), especially when dealing with young/fresh fellows. I believe from my long teaching experience that its much better to pass the abstract level of the knowledge so that student can use his own brain/logic to drawn the conclusion based on his logic. Giving youth ready made conclusions to just parroting others logic is much harming. Increasing the population at AFRINIC meeting is not a goal. To show the good well of the fellowship providers, its much better to involve AFRINIC in the process from selection throw education and then effectively contribute to the meeting. This is the only way to assure sustainable, valuable, and trusted contributions and to build a real "bottom-up", "Open", and "Transparent" process in a real democratic way. Those who are in my age may remember this "no separation for one nation down down colonization" Dr. Sami H.O. Salih Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST Head of R&D, NTC, SUDAN President of SDv6TF T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 ________________________________ From: Ousmane M. TESSA Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2019 11:17 AM To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC; AfriNIC List Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Larus foundation fellowship A+ Jordi! As an academic, most useful educational materials to leraners community have to be FAIR (findable accessible interoperable and reusable)! So selective use of filtered and uncorrect "quoted" opinions have a flavour of ... project! Those who say that they come as samaritain to "help" must bear in mind that AfriNIC community is more agile and smart than they think! RESPECT! RESPECT! "Shouting is not a act of vitality"! Dr Ousmane TESSA JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss > a ?crit : Actually, I think this is something to be done by Afrinic, with the help of PDP chairs and policy proposal authors. The goal is not to convince them about *any* policy proposal, just to have more open time for openly discussing them, and mainly oriented to newcomers, but not only. I?ve actually suggested (several times) for the last couple of years, some of those activities, that I?ve suggested as well in other RIRs and have been implemented already, with a great success. Up to now, it has never been done, despite how much I?ve insisted (staff and co-chairs can confirm that I?ve once and again provided lots of those ideas). Here is a copy & paste of an email about that with the staff: ? concrete actions some of the in every meeting: 1) Setting up open sessions for discussion with policy proposal authors. The idea is that all the authors (willing to contribute) have a short explanation of each policy proposal (no slides, a common slide with titles of all policy proposals just for reference), and they can discuss openly with the participants. There is not any decision process here. In order to plan agenda, I suggest doing this after the session for newcomers and/or sponsored fellows, same meeting room, so the people don't need to move, make it as easier as possible for them. In LACNIC we did that on Sunday evening because most of the folks travel on the morning. Distances and flights aren't the same in this region, so we should consider that. 2) Setting up specific tables for lunch for the same. Similar to above, so people with interest or questions about policy proposal, can sit down with authors to have a more open discussion. 3) Group Dynamics. Take newcomers and other people interested in the PDP. One morning before the policy-day. Create 3-4 small groups depending on how many folks participate (may be more if there are more people, but you need one staff or co-chair for each group), and each group should work in "understanding" a different policy proposal, looking for pros-cons, and trying to "develop" consensus on it and then presenting shortly their results to all the groups. The idea is that they get used to the process and can bring their views to the policy day. As the previous ones, this is not a formal part of the PDP. But in LACNIC has been useful because new people get engaged in the list and in the mics of the meeting. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 2/7/19 20:55, "Noah" > escribi?: On Tue, 2 Jul 2019, 17:11 JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss, > wrote: When anyone present a summary of a policy proposal (which has been done already by the authors) you?re directly or indirectly doing your own analysis and arguing for or against based on your own perspective. This is influencing participants, it can be never 100% unbiassed. +1 Jordi I believe Wafa has provided far much better educational materials (unbiassed) on the policy development process to all the newbie's who can parse through and understand through those various links the origins of AfriNIC and how the entire pdp process works. If anything, new folks would find the rpd list and its archives even more educational than a well documented and somewhat misleading document which is suspect. I have been party to various working groups that lobby for or against some policies which is completely fine but the Larus Foundation approach is on some next level and seriously undermines the entire pdp process. Noah ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. ************************************************** Dr Ousmane MOUSSA TESSA D?partement de math?matiques et d'informatique Universit? A. Moumouni, Niamey, NIGER **************************************************** Adresse postale: B.P. 10.111 Niamey, NIGER T?l?phone (domicile): +227 20 31 52 28 (mobile) : +227 93 77 74 93 / 91 49 16 39 / 96 27 99 92 **************************************************** E-mail: ousmane(at)musatesa.net ou musatesa(at)yahoo.com Skype : musatesa ************************************************ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jordi.palet at consulintel.es Wed Jul 3 10:09:00 2019 From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ) Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2019 12:09:00 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: References: <20190703101708.Horde.I_L4fc5WmS5w2928G6OEWVA@musatesa.net> Message-ID: Hi Souad, I basically agree with your inputs, except the one about the ?booklet?. Printing is expensive and not good for the planet. Most of the time it goes to the waste can. I can suggest an alternative thing. A specific web page, remarked in each even web page top menu that contains a PDF with the relevant information for all the policy proposals for that meeting, links to them, etc. This way, the people that prefer printed, can find their own way to do so. This document can have a small introductory section about how to subcribe to the mailing list, review the archives, remark the ?preparatory? meetings agenda, etc. I think it should be just 1-2 pages. We don?t need to duplicate the content of the policy proposals, just ask each author a 1-paragraph to shortly summarize each proposal it their own words. Link to the full proposal text and done! I?m happy as well to contribute to that work if the staff needs it. The weminars we already proposed are important as well. Right now I?m already missing the chats among the authors to define the July, August and September weminars. Are we moving on that, or are we finally wasting half of the time that we have until the next meeting? We need *much more* proactivity, please! Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 3/7/19 11:51, "SOUAD ABIDI" escribi?: Hello, After attending two AfriNIC meetings, I noticed that afriNIC boot doesn't have any flayers, booklets or any kind of printed material to share with the newcomers about how AfriNIC works or the main policies to discuss in the meeting period. Below some suggestions : a) To have a booklet about the hottest topics written by Policy authors in each afriNIC meeting , where they explain briefly the policy in a simple way, which in my opinion will increase the rate of participation in the room, since most of the newcomers are not subscribed in the mailing list yet so not aware about what's going on. b) I agree with Jordi to make a session with newcomers after the newcomers' session on the first day, to discuss the policies before the PDP day. c) I suggest for AfriNIC fellowship program, to make a mandatory course to complete by the fellows before attending the meeting so they can have an idea about the AFRINIC meeting and getting a maximum contribution during the meeting. I know that AFRINIC website has many resources, but a dedicated course to the newcomers with a scope from each main area, I believe would be useful(As ICANN does with the fellows). [I volunteer to contribute in this if it's approved] By doing so, we won't let the floor to multiple resources that might lead to confusion. Best regards. Souad Le mer. 3 juil. 2019 ? 09:48, Sami Salih a ?crit : Salam, If I remember well, the colonists also came to "help". To help someone/nation you need to be humble enough to give them the abstract things (Materials in this case), especially when dealing with young/fresh fellows. I believe from my long teaching experience that its much better to pass the abstract level of the knowledge so that student can use his own brain/logic to drawn the conclusion based on his logic. Giving youth ready made conclusions to just parroting others logic is much harming. Increasing the population at AFRINIC meeting is not a goal. To show the good well of the fellowship providers, its much better to involve AFRINIC in the process from selection throw education and then effectively contribute to the meeting. This is the only way to assure sustainable, valuable, and trusted contributions and to build a real "bottom-up", "Open", and "Transparent" process in a real democratic way. Those who are in my age may remember this "no separation for one nation down down colonization" Dr. Sami H.O. Salih Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST Head of R&D, NTC, SUDAN President of SDv6TF T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 From: Ousmane M. TESSA Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2019 11:17 AM To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC; AfriNIC List Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Larus foundation fellowship A+ Jordi! As an academic, most useful educational materials to leraners community have to be FAIR (findable accessible interoperable and reusable)! So selective use of filtered and uncorrect "quoted" opinions have a flavour of ... project! Those who say that they come as samaritain to "help" must bear in mind that AfriNIC community is more agile and smart than they think! RESPECT! RESPECT! "Shouting is not a act of vitality"! Dr Ousmane TESSA JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss a ?crit : Actually, I think this is something to be done by Afrinic, with the help of PDP chairs and policy proposal authors. The goal is not to convince them about *any* policy proposal, just to have more open time for openly discussing them, and mainly oriented to newcomers, but not only. I?ve actually suggested (several times) for the last couple of years, some of those activities, that I?ve suggested as well in other RIRs and have been implemented already, with a great success. Up to now, it has never been done, despite how much I?ve insisted (staff and co-chairs can confirm that I?ve once and again provided lots of those ideas). Here is a copy & paste of an email about that with the staff: ? concrete actions some of the in every meeting: 1) Setting up open sessions for discussion with policy proposal authors. The idea is that all the authors (willing to contribute) have a short explanation of each policy proposal (no slides, a common slide with titles of all policy proposals just for reference), and they can discuss openly with the participants. There is not any decision process here. In order to plan agenda, I suggest doing this after the session for newcomers and/or sponsored fellows, same meeting room, so the people don't need to move, make it as easier as possible for them. In LACNIC we did that on Sunday evening because most of the folks travel on the morning. Distances and flights aren't the same in this region, so we should consider that. 2) Setting up specific tables for lunch for the same. Similar to above, so people with interest or questions about policy proposal, can sit down with authors to have a more open discussion. 3) Group Dynamics. Take newcomers and other people interested in the PDP. One morning before the policy-day. Create 3-4 small groups depending on how many folks participate (may be more if there are more people, but you need one staff or co-chair for each group), and each group should work in "understanding" a different policy proposal, looking for pros-cons, and trying to "develop" consensus on it and then presenting shortly their results to all the groups. The idea is that they get used to the process and can bring their views to the policy day. As the previous ones, this is not a formal part of the PDP. But in LACNIC has been useful because new people get engaged in the list and in the mics of the meeting. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 2/7/19 20:55, "Noah" escribi?: On Tue, 2 Jul 2019, 17:11 JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss, wrote: When anyone present a summary of a policy proposal (which has been done already by the authors) you?re directly or indirectly doing your own analysis and arguing for or against based on your own perspective. This is influencing participants, it can be never 100% unbiassed. +1 Jordi I believe Wafa has provided far much better educational materials (unbiassed) on the policy development process to all the newbie's who can parse through and understand through those various links the origins of AfriNIC and how the entire pdp process works. If anything, new folks would find the rpd list and its archives even more educational than a well documented and somewhat misleading document which is suspect. I have been party to various working groups that lobby for or against some policies which is completely fine but the Larus Foundation approach is on some next level and seriously undermines the entire pdp process. Noah ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. ************************************************** Dr Ousmane MOUSSA TESSA D?partement de math?matiques et d'informatique Universit? A. Moumouni, Niamey, NIGER **************************************************** Adresse postale: B.P. 10.111 Niamey, NIGER T?l?phone (domicile): +227 20 31 52 28 (mobile) : +227 93 77 74 93 / 91 49 16 39 / 96 27 99 92 **************************************************** E-mail: ousmane(at)musatesa.net ou musatesa(at)yahoo.com Skype : musatesa ************************************************ _______________________________________________ RPD mailing list RPD at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ahmed.fadl at 57357.org Wed Jul 3 11:14:30 2019 From: ahmed.fadl at 57357.org (Ahmed Fadl) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 11:14:30 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com> Hi Wafa, Thanks for your email. I, among other members of AFRINIC in Egypt, received the following email from you many times. I wondered at that time why should I vote for these candidates specially for those in Eastern and Southern regions while each one was the sole candidate in his region. I quote this from your email "Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy ...." what is your strategy and who are you ? If you are talking about biasing the community, So, do you consider your email as a "member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC." fall under what ? I sent this mail many time but I don?t know why I can?t find this mail on community Thanks, Ahmed Fadl From: wafa Dahmani [mailto:wafatn7604 at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 1:05 PM To: wafa Dahmani Subject: AFRINIC Borad Elections Dear, My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC. I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates: Board of Directors: North Africa (seat 1) * Habin Youssef West Africa (seat 2) * Ly Ousmane South Africa (seat 5) * Mpisane Vika William East Africa (seat 6) * Nkusi Robert Ford Non-regional (seat 7) * Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye Election Number Resource Organization Number Council * Mustapha Ben Jemaa Election Policy Development Working Group * Komi Elitcha * Sami Hassan Election Governance Committee * Daniel Nanghaka Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy and in order to preserve AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right candidates for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all our efforts and vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for an adequate board the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very simple for all categories except the policy development Working group where we want you to mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates We strongly solicit your support Thank you Wafa Dahmani member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com Wed Jul 3 11:28:54 2019 From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 11:28:54 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com> References: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com> Message-ID: This email raises so many questions. While as I have clearly stated ? I do not have ANY problem with anyone lobbying on behalf of candidates and their beliefs ? however ? I have serious issues when other groups that are meant to be neutral start doing this. As such, I need some clarity based on the signatures of the email. 1. Is this email representative of the ASO /AC ?s view 2. Is this email representative of the combined view of the AFRINIC Appeal committee ? and how does that align with the neutrality that is meant to exist in such a committee. 3. Is this email representative of the views of Global IGF? I really hope not ? but ? I have to ask ? since that is what the email was signed as. Thanks Andrew From: Ahmed Fadl Sent: Wednesday, 3 July 2019 14:15 To: wafa Dahmani ; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Hi Wafa, Thanks for your email. I, among other members of AFRINIC in Egypt, received the following email from you many times. I wondered at that time why should I vote for these candidates specially for those in Eastern and Southern regions while each one was the sole candidate in his region. I quote this from your email "Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy ...." what is your strategy and who are you ? If you are talking about biasing the community, So, do you consider your email as a "member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC." fall under what ? I sent this mail many time but I don?t know why I can?t find this mail on community Thanks, Ahmed Fadl From: wafa Dahmani [mailto:wafatn7604 at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 1:05 PM To: wafa Dahmani > Subject: AFRINIC Borad Elections Dear, My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC. I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates: Board of Directors: North Africa (seat 1) * Habin Youssef West Africa (seat 2) * Ly Ousmane South Africa (seat 5) * Mpisane Vika William East Africa (seat 6) * Nkusi Robert Ford Non-regional (seat 7) * Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye Election Number Resource Organization Number Council * Mustapha Ben Jemaa Election Policy Development Working Group * Komi Elitcha * Sami Hassan Election Governance Committee * Daniel Nanghaka Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy and in order to preserve AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right candidates for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all our efforts and vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for an adequate board the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very simple for all categories except the policy development Working group where we want you to mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates We strongly solicit your support Thank you Wafa Dahmani member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From a.v.p at outsideheaven.com Wed Jul 3 11:32:32 2019 From: a.v.p at outsideheaven.com (Anne-vivien Paris) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 19:32:32 +0800 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: References: <1478031339.474342.1562059823971.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> <20190702203653.Horde.w8XYOZ5zj0KYbKXU_Q9euLb@musatesa.net> Message-ID: Dear Noah, Thank you for your interest in the Foundation. Please let me clarify: (1) Larus Foundation sponsors events in different regions in addition to those in Africa. For example, very recently we have sponsored a few candidates of different ethics to attend ICANN in Morocco. You can find the list of events we sponsor in the coming future on our website : https://www.larusfoundation.org/about-the-fellowship/ (simply click the "apply now" and you will find a list of events). (2) Regarding your doubt on our 5th FAQ, let me explain that we do not target any particualr parties/regions. Our 5th FAQ states that "I am from Africa but I would really like ot attend RIR meetings outside Africa. Will that be possible?". Africa is randomly selected; you can indeed understand it is equivalent to "If I am from Asia can I attend meetings outside Asia". We appreciate you pointing this out - indeed the statement allows room for overead. However, I think if you take the extra time to read the answer, things will be clarified - we state explicitly that the Internet is borderless and participation of Internet governance shall not be restricted by geographical factors. Let me make it clear that this applies to all continents in the world. We thank you for the questions you raised which allows us to clarify things. My apologies for the wrong name used in the education package - it was a careless mistake. We will update it accordingly. Indeed, the community's feedback on us help the Foundation better itself and we appreciate that. Vivien *Vivien PARIS* *Larus FOUNDATION* p:+44 7746 416450 w: www.larusfoundation.org a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR On Wed, 3 Jul 2019 at 03:43, Noah wrote: > > > On Tue, 2 Jul 2019, 21:37 Ousmane M. TESSA, wrote: > >> Huumm! Noah. >> Better ask difference between "sponsorship to educate newcomers" or >> lobbying to push specific agenda in Africa. >> Elsewhere, the fear of Justice will deter most of people to even think >> about this trick. >> > > Tessa > > While I wait for Viven response of their activity beyond Afrinic service > region... > > I have had to go to the foundation website and the 5th faq question > specifically targets folks from Africa.... how attractive is that.! > > Have we become this vulnerable? > > https://www.larusfoundation.org/faq/ > > Noah > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -- *Vivien * *Larus Cloud Service Limited* p:+852 29888918 f:+852 29888368 e:a.v.p at laruscloudservice.net w:laruscloudservice.net/ a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jordi.palet at consulintel.es Wed Jul 3 11:40:48 2019 From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ) Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2019 13:40:48 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Message-ID: <59F8813D-32D2-4A91-997D-867579439B76@consulintel.es> This is really very ugly. Are we really crazy to believe that the community is not able to decide on their own? I?ve seen a similar situation in other regions and this is outside of the code of conduct (written or not), or the elections proccesses. There are several points here: Have the emails of the recipients of this message been legally ?acquired?, I mean with a previous and explicit consent, or have they been ?collected? from people participating in mail exploders? In many countries, collecting emails from people is against law. Have the recipients of those emails, authorized explicitly to get ?publicity about candidates? ? If not, this is just one more way of spam, again, may be against law in many countries. Has the elections process authorized to do advertising of candidates outside of the formal processes? Has the elections process authorized other committee members to use their ?position? as a way to convince the community about whom to vote? I think there must be an explicit prohibition for doing all this and if anyone does it, it needs to be possible to punish him/her (and possible the involved candidates) with several years impossibility to be part of board, committees, or participate as candidate in any kind of elections. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 3/7/19 13:18, "Ahmed Fadl" escribi?: Hi Wafa, Thanks for your email. I, among other members of AFRINIC in Egypt, received the following email from you many times. I wondered at that time why should I vote for these candidates specially for those in Eastern and Southern regions while each one was the sole candidate in his region. I quote this from your email "Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy ...." what is your strategy and who are you ? If you are talking about biasing the community, So, do you consider your email as a "member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC." fall under what ? I sent this mail many time but I don?t know why I can?t find this mail on community Thanks, Ahmed Fadl From: wafa Dahmani [mailto:wafatn7604 at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 1:05 PM To: wafa Dahmani Subject: AFRINIC Borad Elections Dear, My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC. I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates: Board of Directors: North Africa (seat 1) ? Habin Youssef West Africa (seat 2) ? Ly Ousmane South Africa (seat 5) ? Mpisane Vika William East Africa (seat 6) ? Nkusi Robert Ford Non-regional (seat 7) ? Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye Election Number Resource Organization Number Council ? Mustapha Ben Jemaa Election Policy Development Working Group ? Komi Elitcha ? Sami Hassan Election Governance Committee ? Daniel Nanghaka Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy and in order to preserve AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right candidates for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all our efforts and vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for an adequate board the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very simple for all categories except the policy development Working group where we want you to mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates We strongly solicit your support Thank you Wafa Dahmani member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sami.salih at outlook.com Wed Jul 3 11:47:26 2019 From: sami.salih at outlook.com (Sami Salih) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 11:47:26 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: References: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com>, Message-ID: Salam, I see this email sent to individuals to support/campaign for some nominators (I'm not in agreement with all proposed names) who are among the public slat of AFRINIC candidates, IMHO any one is free to campaign. The undersigned signature represent the level of engagement of the sender in the community and gives the recipient more confident about her selection to the benefit of the community. This is too far from sponsoring youth and educate them in a way that may push them to support/oppose something. My personal signature as SUST employee did't mean my view i this email represent SUST! BR Dr. Sami H.O. Salih Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST Head of R&D, NTC, SUDAN President of SDv6TF T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 ________________________________ From: Andrew Alston Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2019 2:28 PM To: Ahmed Fadl; wafa Dahmani; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections This email raises so many questions. While as I have clearly stated ? I do not have ANY problem with anyone lobbying on behalf of candidates and their beliefs ? however ? I have serious issues when other groups that are meant to be neutral start doing this. As such, I need some clarity based on the signatures of the email. 1. Is this email representative of the ASO /AC ?s view 2. Is this email representative of the combined view of the AFRINIC Appeal committee ? and how does that align with the neutrality that is meant to exist in such a committee. 3. Is this email representative of the views of Global IGF? I really hope not ? but ? I have to ask ? since that is what the email was signed as. Thanks Andrew From: Ahmed Fadl Sent: Wednesday, 3 July 2019 14:15 To: wafa Dahmani ; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Hi Wafa, Thanks for your email. I, among other members of AFRINIC in Egypt, received the following email from you many times. I wondered at that time why should I vote for these candidates specially for those in Eastern and Southern regions while each one was the sole candidate in his region. I quote this from your email "Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy ...." what is your strategy and who are you ? If you are talking about biasing the community, So, do you consider your email as a "member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC." fall under what ? I sent this mail many time but I don?t know why I can?t find this mail on community Thanks, Ahmed Fadl From: wafa Dahmani [mailto:wafatn7604 at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 1:05 PM To: wafa Dahmani > Subject: AFRINIC Borad Elections Dear, My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC. I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates: Board of Directors: North Africa (seat 1) * Habin Youssef West Africa (seat 2) * Ly Ousmane South Africa (seat 5) * Mpisane Vika William East Africa (seat 6) * Nkusi Robert Ford Non-regional (seat 7) * Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye Election Number Resource Organization Number Council * Mustapha Ben Jemaa Election Policy Development Working Group * Komi Elitcha * Sami Hassan Election Governance Committee * Daniel Nanghaka Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy and in order to preserve AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right candidates for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all our efforts and vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for an adequate board the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very simple for all categories except the policy development Working group where we want you to mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates We strongly solicit your support Thank you Wafa Dahmani member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jordi.palet at consulintel.es Wed Jul 3 11:50:14 2019 From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ) Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2019 13:50:14 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: <59F8813D-32D2-4A91-997D-867579439B76@consulintel.es> References: <59F8813D-32D2-4A91-997D-867579439B76@consulintel.es> Message-ID: <5ACD5EA8-9FCE-4EBC-896A-5488FB1D52DB@consulintel.es> I?m angrier about this as much as I think on it again. Can the board and the staff investigate this? Can all the people that got those emails confirm if they have provided voluntarily their emails or if they have participated in Afrinic lists, or if those emails are part of their Afrinic contacts, in order to understand if this personal data (emails are personal data), have been collected from Afrinic internal databases. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 3/7/19 13:43, "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss" escribi?: This is really very ugly. Are we really crazy to believe that the community is not able to decide on their own? I?ve seen a similar situation in other regions and this is outside of the code of conduct (written or not), or the elections proccesses. There are several points here: 1) Have the emails of the recipients of this message been legally ?acquired?, I mean with a previous and explicit consent, or have they been ?collected? from people participating in mail exploders? In many countries, collecting emails from people is against law. 2) Have the recipients of those emails, authorized explicitly to get ?publicity about candidates? ? If not, this is just one more way of spam, again, may be against law in many countries. 3) Has the elections process authorized to do advertising of candidates outside of the formal processes? 4) Has the elections process authorized other committee members to use their ?position? as a way to convince the community about whom to vote? I think there must be an explicit prohibition for doing all this and if anyone does it, it needs to be possible to punish him/her (and possible the involved candidates) with several years impossibility to be part of board, committees, or participate as candidate in any kind of elections. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 3/7/19 13:18, "Ahmed Fadl" escribi?: Hi Wafa, Thanks for your email. I, among other members of AFRINIC in Egypt, received the following email from you many times. I wondered at that time why should I vote for these candidates specially for those in Eastern and Southern regions while each one was the sole candidate in his region. I quote this from your email "Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy ...." what is your strategy and who are you ? If you are talking about biasing the community, So, do you consider your email as a "member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC." fall under what ? I sent this mail many time but I don?t know why I can?t find this mail on community Thanks, Ahmed Fadl From: wafa Dahmani [mailto:wafatn7604 at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 1:05 PM To: wafa Dahmani Subject: AFRINIC Borad Elections Dear, My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC. I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates: Board of Directors: North Africa (seat 1) ? Habin Youssef West Africa (seat 2) ? Ly Ousmane South Africa (seat 5) ? Mpisane Vika William East Africa (seat 6) ? Nkusi Robert Ford Non-regional (seat 7) ? Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye Election Number Resource Organization Number Council ? Mustapha Ben Jemaa Election Policy Development Working Group ? Komi Elitcha ? Sami Hassan Election Governance Committee ? Daniel Nanghaka Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy and in order to preserve AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right candidates for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all our efforts and vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for an adequate board the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very simple for all categories except the policy development Working group where we want you to mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates We strongly solicit your support Thank you Wafa Dahmani member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com Wed Jul 3 11:53:28 2019 From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 11:53:28 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: References: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com>, Message-ID: Sorry Sami, But I fundamentally disagree with you. When you use your position on community based bodies that are meant to maintain a position of neutrality to lobby in this manner - and state that it is "part of our strategy" - without specifying who - it implies that the strategy is that of one of the organizations that you signed for. My problem with this email is NOT that lobbying was done - that is part and parcel of how elections (which are by nature political) occur - my problem is the implications of the representations made in this email - not just in the signature either - and the reference to "our strategy" - which could be read to imply a wider group with a specific strategy that is involved in an attempt at organizational capture (though I will not go so far as to say that this last implication is actually accurate) If you lobby for a candidate - you either do so on your own behalf - or you do it at the behest of your employer or another group - and when the email is signed in the way that it is and prefixed the way that it is - it very definitely carries implications - and hence me asking if this is actually the position of those bodies - I want clarification from THEM as to their position vis-a-vie this email - and it is a fair question to ask - particularly when one of those bodies has to be in a position of total neutrality because they deal with appeals. Thanks Andrew From: Sami Salih Sent: Wednesday, 3 July 2019 14:47 To: Andrew Alston ; Ahmed Fadl ; wafa Dahmani ; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: AFRINIC Borad Elections Salam, I see this email sent to individuals to support/campaign for some nominators (I'm not in agreement with all proposed names) who are among the public slat of AFRINIC candidates, IMHO any one is free to campaign. The undersigned signature represent the level of engagement of the sender in the community and gives the recipient more confident about her selection to the benefit of the community. This is too far from sponsoring youth and educate them in a way that may push them to support/oppose something. My personal signature as SUST employee did't mean my view i this email represent SUST! BR Dr. Sami H.O. Salih Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST Head of R&D, NTC, SUDAN President of SDv6TF T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 ________________________________ From: Andrew Alston > Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2019 2:28 PM To: Ahmed Fadl; wafa Dahmani; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections This email raises so many questions. While as I have clearly stated - I do not have ANY problem with anyone lobbying on behalf of candidates and their beliefs - however - I have serious issues when other groups that are meant to be neutral start doing this. As such, I need some clarity based on the signatures of the email. 1. Is this email representative of the ASO /AC 's view 2. Is this email representative of the combined view of the AFRINIC Appeal committee - and how does that align with the neutrality that is meant to exist in such a committee. 3. Is this email representative of the views of Global IGF? I really hope not - but - I have to ask - since that is what the email was signed as. Thanks Andrew From: Ahmed Fadl > Sent: Wednesday, 3 July 2019 14:15 To: wafa Dahmani >; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Hi Wafa, Thanks for your email. I, among other members of AFRINIC in Egypt, received the following email from you many times. I wondered at that time why should I vote for these candidates specially for those in Eastern and Southern regions while each one was the sole candidate in his region. I quote this from your email "Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy ...." what is your strategy and who are you ? If you are talking about biasing the community, So, do you consider your email as a "member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC." fall under what ? I sent this mail many time but I don't know why I can't find this mail on community Thanks, Ahmed Fadl From: wafa Dahmani [mailto:wafatn7604 at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 1:05 PM To: wafa Dahmani > Subject: AFRINIC Borad Elections Dear, My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC. I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates: Board of Directors: North Africa (seat 1) * Habin Youssef West Africa (seat 2) * Ly Ousmane South Africa (seat 5) * Mpisane Vika William East Africa (seat 6) * Nkusi Robert Ford Non-regional (seat 7) * Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye Election Number Resource Organization Number Council * Mustapha Ben Jemaa Election Policy Development Working Group * Komi Elitcha * Sami Hassan Election Governance Committee * Daniel Nanghaka Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy and in order to preserve AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right candidates for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all our efforts and vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for an adequate board the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very simple for all categories except the policy development Working group where we want you to mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates We strongly solicit your support Thank you Wafa Dahmani member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jordi.palet at consulintel.es Wed Jul 3 11:54:51 2019 From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ) Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2019 13:54:51 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Message-ID: Hi Sami, My point here is that the campaigns need to be done *only* in a neutral way, not by board or committee members, not by staff, and only to people that you *already* know. So, they should be done only in the official ways determined in the elections process. I?m not, *at all*, discussion about if the candidates are good, bad, or if I support them or not, just the way it has been done and I urge the board to take measures. If you collect my email from any kind of database, without my previous and explicit consent, this is against law (and even immoral and unethical, in my personal opinion). Moreover, if you do that with an EU citizen or resident, it is against GDPR, which means that you can get fines up to 20 million euros. And in case you don?t know, Mauritius is one of the countries that signed agreements with the EU about GDPR, so the legislation is applicable with the Afrinic databases as well. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 3/7/19 13:49, "Sami Salih" escribi?: Salam, I see this email sent to individuals to support/campaign for some nominators (I'm not in agreement with all proposed names) who are among the public slat of AFRINIC candidates, IMHO any one is free to campaign. The undersigned signature represent the level of engagement of the sender in the community and gives the recipient more confident about her selection to the benefit of the community. This is too far from sponsoring youth and educate them in a way that may push them to support/oppose something. My personal signature as SUST employee did't mean my view i this email represent SUST! BR Dr. Sami H.O. Salih Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST Head of R&D, NTC, SUDAN President of SDv6TF T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 From: Andrew Alston Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2019 2:28 PM To: Ahmed Fadl; wafa Dahmani; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections This email raises so many questions. While as I have clearly stated ? I do not have ANY problem with anyone lobbying on behalf of candidates and their beliefs ? however ? I have serious issues when other groups that are meant to be neutral start doing this. As such, I need some clarity based on the signatures of the email. a. Is this email representative of the ASO /AC ?s view b. Is this email representative of the combined view of the AFRINIC Appeal committee ? and how does that align with the neutrality that is meant to exist in such a committee. c. Is this email representative of the views of Global IGF? I really hope not ? but ? I have to ask ? since that is what the email was signed as. Thanks Andrew From: Ahmed Fadl Sent: Wednesday, 3 July 2019 14:15 To: wafa Dahmani ; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Hi Wafa, Thanks for your email. I, among other members of AFRINIC in Egypt, received the following email from you many times. I wondered at that time why should I vote for these candidates specially for those in Eastern and Southern regions while each one was the sole candidate in his region. I quote this from your email "Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy ...." what is your strategy and who are you ? If you are talking about biasing the community, So, do you consider your email as a "member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC." fall under what ? I sent this mail many time but I don?t know why I can?t find this mail on community Thanks, Ahmed Fadl From: wafa Dahmani [mailto:wafatn7604 at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 1:05 PM To: wafa Dahmani Subject: AFRINIC Borad Elections Dear, My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC. I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates: Board of Directors: North Africa (seat 1) ? Habin Youssef West Africa (seat 2) ? Ly Ousmane South Africa (seat 5) ? Mpisane Vika William East Africa (seat 6) ? Nkusi Robert Ford Non-regional (seat 7) ? Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye Election Number Resource Organization Number Council ? Mustapha Ben Jemaa Election Policy Development Working Group ? Komi Elitcha ? Sami Hassan Election Governance Committee ? Daniel Nanghaka Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy and in order to preserve AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right candidates for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all our efforts and vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for an adequate board the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very simple for all categories except the policy development Working group where we want you to mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates We strongly solicit your support Thank you Wafa Dahmani member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sami.salih at outlook.com Wed Jul 3 12:09:57 2019 From: sami.salih at outlook.com (Sami Salih) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 12:09:57 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: References: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com>, , Message-ID: I'm sorry too to ask you read my email again, as stating the level of engagement is necessary for me to show how the sender are interested and participated in the community and who she has the needed knowledge about the individuals who are deserve to be elected. Stating the committees she is involved in will never has o be misunderstood as what you claim (But some people may need to read/think carefully before making any assumptions). and I'm sorry again to tell you that your fair questions is trivial -sorry if its not a good word I'm not native- the answer is NO. Dr. Sami H.O. Salih Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST Head of R&D, NTC, SUDAN President of SDv6TF T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 ________________________________ From: Andrew Alston Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2019 2:53 PM To: Sami Salih; Ahmed Fadl; wafa Dahmani; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: RE: AFRINIC Borad Elections Sorry Sami, But I fundamentally disagree with you. When you use your position on community based bodies that are meant to maintain a position of neutrality to lobby in this manner ? and state that it is ?part of our strategy? ? without specifying who ? it implies that the strategy is that of one of the organizations that you signed for. My problem with this email is NOT that lobbying was done ? that is part and parcel of how elections (which are by nature political) occur ? my problem is the implications of the representations made in this email ? not just in the signature either ? and the reference to ?our strategy? ? which could be read to imply a wider group with a specific strategy that is involved in an attempt at organizational capture (though I will not go so far as to say that this last implication is actually accurate) If you lobby for a candidate ? you either do so on your own behalf ? or you do it at the behest of your employer or another group ? and when the email is signed in the way that it is and prefixed the way that it is ? it very definitely carries implications ? and hence me asking if this is actually the position of those bodies ? I want clarification from THEM as to their position vis-a-vie this email ? and it is a fair question to ask ? particularly when one of those bodies has to be in a position of total neutrality because they deal with appeals. Thanks Andrew From: Sami Salih Sent: Wednesday, 3 July 2019 14:47 To: Andrew Alston ; Ahmed Fadl ; wafa Dahmani ; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: AFRINIC Borad Elections Salam, I see this email sent to individuals to support/campaign for some nominators (I'm not in agreement with all proposed names) who are among the public slat of AFRINIC candidates, IMHO any one is free to campaign. The undersigned signature represent the level of engagement of the sender in the community and gives the recipient more confident about her selection to the benefit of the community. This is too far from sponsoring youth and educate them in a way that may push them to support/oppose something. My personal signature as SUST employee did't mean my view i this email represent SUST! BR Dr. Sami H.O. Salih Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST Head of R&D, NTC, SUDAN President of SDv6TF T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 ________________________________ From: Andrew Alston > Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2019 2:28 PM To: Ahmed Fadl; wafa Dahmani; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections This email raises so many questions. While as I have clearly stated ? I do not have ANY problem with anyone lobbying on behalf of candidates and their beliefs ? however ? I have serious issues when other groups that are meant to be neutral start doing this. As such, I need some clarity based on the signatures of the email. 1. Is this email representative of the ASO /AC ?s view 2. Is this email representative of the combined view of the AFRINIC Appeal committee ? and how does that align with the neutrality that is meant to exist in such a committee. 3. Is this email representative of the views of Global IGF? I really hope not ? but ? I have to ask ? since that is what the email was signed as. Thanks Andrew From: Ahmed Fadl > Sent: Wednesday, 3 July 2019 14:15 To: wafa Dahmani >; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Hi Wafa, Thanks for your email. I, among other members of AFRINIC in Egypt, received the following email from you many times. I wondered at that time why should I vote for these candidates specially for those in Eastern and Southern regions while each one was the sole candidate in his region. I quote this from your email "Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy ...." what is your strategy and who are you ? If you are talking about biasing the community, So, do you consider your email as a "member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC." fall under what ? I sent this mail many time but I don?t know why I can?t find this mail on community Thanks, Ahmed Fadl From: wafa Dahmani [mailto:wafatn7604 at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 1:05 PM To: wafa Dahmani > Subject: AFRINIC Borad Elections Dear, My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC. I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates: Board of Directors: North Africa (seat 1) * Habin Youssef West Africa (seat 2) * Ly Ousmane South Africa (seat 5) * Mpisane Vika William East Africa (seat 6) * Nkusi Robert Ford Non-regional (seat 7) * Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye Election Number Resource Organization Number Council * Mustapha Ben Jemaa Election Policy Development Working Group * Komi Elitcha * Sami Hassan Election Governance Committee * Daniel Nanghaka Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy and in order to preserve AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right candidates for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all our efforts and vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for an adequate board the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very simple for all categories except the policy development Working group where we want you to mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates We strongly solicit your support Thank you Wafa Dahmani member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com Wed Jul 3 12:12:12 2019 From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 12:12:12 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: References: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com>, , Message-ID: It won?t be read that way? Well ? the very fact that this email landed up on the list seems to imply otherwise ? and the communications I?ve had off list ? also seem to imply otherwise. Jordi?s email (though Jordi can speak for himself!) also seems to imply that he believes this email portrays itself as an abuse of position. So ? won?t ever? Errrrr I see at least 3 instances in the last few minutes ? Andrew From: Sami Salih Sent: Wednesday, 3 July 2019 15:10 To: Andrew Alston ; Ahmed Fadl ; wafa Dahmani ; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: AFRINIC Borad Elections I'm sorry too to ask you read my email again, as stating the level of engagement is necessary for me to show how the sender are interested and participated in the community and who she has the needed knowledge about the individuals who are deserve to be elected. Stating the committees she is involved in will never has o be misunderstood as what you claim (But some people may need to read/think carefully before making any assumptions). and I'm sorry again to tell you that your fair questions is trivial -sorry if its not a good word I'm not native- the answer is NO. Dr. Sami H.O. Salih Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST Head of R&D, NTC, SUDAN President of SDv6TF T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 ________________________________ From: Andrew Alston > Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2019 2:53 PM To: Sami Salih; Ahmed Fadl; wafa Dahmani; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: RE: AFRINIC Borad Elections Sorry Sami, But I fundamentally disagree with you. When you use your position on community based bodies that are meant to maintain a position of neutrality to lobby in this manner ? and state that it is ?part of our strategy? ? without specifying who ? it implies that the strategy is that of one of the organizations that you signed for. My problem with this email is NOT that lobbying was done ? that is part and parcel of how elections (which are by nature political) occur ? my problem is the implications of the representations made in this email ? not just in the signature either ? and the reference to ?our strategy? ? which could be read to imply a wider group with a specific strategy that is involved in an attempt at organizational capture (though I will not go so far as to say that this last implication is actually accurate) If you lobby for a candidate ? you either do so on your own behalf ? or you do it at the behest of your employer or another group ? and when the email is signed in the way that it is and prefixed the way that it is ? it very definitely carries implications ? and hence me asking if this is actually the position of those bodies ? I want clarification from THEM as to their position vis-a-vie this email ? and it is a fair question to ask ? particularly when one of those bodies has to be in a position of total neutrality because they deal with appeals. Thanks Andrew From: Sami Salih > Sent: Wednesday, 3 July 2019 14:47 To: Andrew Alston >; Ahmed Fadl >; wafa Dahmani >; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: AFRINIC Borad Elections Salam, I see this email sent to individuals to support/campaign for some nominators (I'm not in agreement with all proposed names) who are among the public slat of AFRINIC candidates, IMHO any one is free to campaign. The undersigned signature represent the level of engagement of the sender in the community and gives the recipient more confident about her selection to the benefit of the community. This is too far from sponsoring youth and educate them in a way that may push them to support/oppose something. My personal signature as SUST employee did't mean my view i this email represent SUST! BR Dr. Sami H.O. Salih Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST Head of R&D, NTC, SUDAN President of SDv6TF T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 ________________________________ From: Andrew Alston > Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2019 2:28 PM To: Ahmed Fadl; wafa Dahmani; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections This email raises so many questions. While as I have clearly stated ? I do not have ANY problem with anyone lobbying on behalf of candidates and their beliefs ? however ? I have serious issues when other groups that are meant to be neutral start doing this. As such, I need some clarity based on the signatures of the email. 1. Is this email representative of the ASO /AC ?s view 2. Is this email representative of the combined view of the AFRINIC Appeal committee ? and how does that align with the neutrality that is meant to exist in such a committee. 3. Is this email representative of the views of Global IGF? I really hope not ? but ? I have to ask ? since that is what the email was signed as. Thanks Andrew From: Ahmed Fadl > Sent: Wednesday, 3 July 2019 14:15 To: wafa Dahmani >; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Hi Wafa, Thanks for your email. I, among other members of AFRINIC in Egypt, received the following email from you many times. I wondered at that time why should I vote for these candidates specially for those in Eastern and Southern regions while each one was the sole candidate in his region. I quote this from your email "Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy ...." what is your strategy and who are you ? If you are talking about biasing the community, So, do you consider your email as a "member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC." fall under what ? I sent this mail many time but I don?t know why I can?t find this mail on community Thanks, Ahmed Fadl From: wafa Dahmani [mailto:wafatn7604 at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 1:05 PM To: wafa Dahmani > Subject: AFRINIC Borad Elections Dear, My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC. I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates: Board of Directors: North Africa (seat 1) * Habin Youssef West Africa (seat 2) * Ly Ousmane South Africa (seat 5) * Mpisane Vika William East Africa (seat 6) * Nkusi Robert Ford Non-regional (seat 7) * Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye Election Number Resource Organization Number Council * Mustapha Ben Jemaa Election Policy Development Working Group * Komi Elitcha * Sami Hassan Election Governance Committee * Daniel Nanghaka Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy and in order to preserve AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right candidates for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all our efforts and vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for an adequate board the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very simple for all categories except the policy development Working group where we want you to mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates We strongly solicit your support Thank you Wafa Dahmani member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sami.salih at outlook.com Wed Jul 3 12:20:58 2019 From: sami.salih at outlook.com (Sami Salih) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 12:20:58 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: References: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com>, , , Message-ID: Do I need to remind you its not about the numbers, I'm in an exam room with >200 student do you want me ask them to send +1 for 2 Marks. (Just a hypothetical example I will never do that, but others may see nothing in acquiring support in such a way and call for that off-list). Dr. Sami H.O. Salih Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST Head of R&D, NTC, SUDAN President of SDv6TF T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 ________________________________ From: Andrew Alston Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2019 3:12 PM To: Sami Salih; Ahmed Fadl; wafa Dahmani; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: RE: AFRINIC Borad Elections It won?t be read that way? Well ? the very fact that this email landed up on the list seems to imply otherwise ? and the communications I?ve had off list ? also seem to imply otherwise. Jordi?s email (though Jordi can speak for himself!) also seems to imply that he believes this email portrays itself as an abuse of position. So ? won?t ever? Errrrr I see at least 3 instances in the last few minutes ?? Andrew From: Sami Salih Sent: Wednesday, 3 July 2019 15:10 To: Andrew Alston ; Ahmed Fadl ; wafa Dahmani ; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: AFRINIC Borad Elections I'm sorry too to ask you read my email again, as stating the level of engagement is necessary for me to show how the sender are interested and participated in the community and who she has the needed knowledge about the individuals who are deserve to be elected. Stating the committees she is involved in will never has o be misunderstood as what you claim (But some people may need to read/think carefully before making any assumptions). and I'm sorry again to tell you that your fair questions is trivial -sorry if its not a good word I'm not native- the answer is NO. Dr. Sami H.O. Salih Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST Head of R&D, NTC, SUDAN President of SDv6TF T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 ________________________________ From: Andrew Alston > Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2019 2:53 PM To: Sami Salih; Ahmed Fadl; wafa Dahmani; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: RE: AFRINIC Borad Elections Sorry Sami, But I fundamentally disagree with you. When you use your position on community based bodies that are meant to maintain a position of neutrality to lobby in this manner ? and state that it is ?part of our strategy? ? without specifying who ? it implies that the strategy is that of one of the organizations that you signed for. My problem with this email is NOT that lobbying was done ? that is part and parcel of how elections (which are by nature political) occur ? my problem is the implications of the representations made in this email ? not just in the signature either ? and the reference to ?our strategy? ? which could be read to imply a wider group with a specific strategy that is involved in an attempt at organizational capture (though I will not go so far as to say that this last implication is actually accurate) If you lobby for a candidate ? you either do so on your own behalf ? or you do it at the behest of your employer or another group ? and when the email is signed in the way that it is and prefixed the way that it is ? it very definitely carries implications ? and hence me asking if this is actually the position of those bodies ? I want clarification from THEM as to their position vis-a-vie this email ? and it is a fair question to ask ? particularly when one of those bodies has to be in a position of total neutrality because they deal with appeals. Thanks Andrew From: Sami Salih > Sent: Wednesday, 3 July 2019 14:47 To: Andrew Alston >; Ahmed Fadl >; wafa Dahmani >; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: AFRINIC Borad Elections Salam, I see this email sent to individuals to support/campaign for some nominators (I'm not in agreement with all proposed names) who are among the public slat of AFRINIC candidates, IMHO any one is free to campaign. The undersigned signature represent the level of engagement of the sender in the community and gives the recipient more confident about her selection to the benefit of the community. This is too far from sponsoring youth and educate them in a way that may push them to support/oppose something. My personal signature as SUST employee did't mean my view i this email represent SUST! BR Dr. Sami H.O. Salih Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST Head of R&D, NTC, SUDAN President of SDv6TF T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 ________________________________ From: Andrew Alston > Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2019 2:28 PM To: Ahmed Fadl; wafa Dahmani; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections This email raises so many questions. While as I have clearly stated ? I do not have ANY problem with anyone lobbying on behalf of candidates and their beliefs ? however ? I have serious issues when other groups that are meant to be neutral start doing this. As such, I need some clarity based on the signatures of the email. 1. Is this email representative of the ASO /AC ?s view 2. Is this email representative of the combined view of the AFRINIC Appeal committee ? and how does that align with the neutrality that is meant to exist in such a committee. 3. Is this email representative of the views of Global IGF? I really hope not ? but ? I have to ask ? since that is what the email was signed as. Thanks Andrew From: Ahmed Fadl > Sent: Wednesday, 3 July 2019 14:15 To: wafa Dahmani >; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Hi Wafa, Thanks for your email. I, among other members of AFRINIC in Egypt, received the following email from you many times. I wondered at that time why should I vote for these candidates specially for those in Eastern and Southern regions while each one was the sole candidate in his region. I quote this from your email "Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy ...." what is your strategy and who are you ? If you are talking about biasing the community, So, do you consider your email as a "member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC." fall under what ? I sent this mail many time but I don?t know why I can?t find this mail on community Thanks, Ahmed Fadl From: wafa Dahmani [mailto:wafatn7604 at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 1:05 PM To: wafa Dahmani > Subject: AFRINIC Borad Elections Dear, My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC. I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates: Board of Directors: North Africa (seat 1) * Habin Youssef West Africa (seat 2) * Ly Ousmane South Africa (seat 5) * Mpisane Vika William East Africa (seat 6) * Nkusi Robert Ford Non-regional (seat 7) * Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye Election Number Resource Organization Number Council * Mustapha Ben Jemaa Election Policy Development Working Group * Komi Elitcha * Sami Hassan Election Governance Committee * Daniel Nanghaka Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy and in order to preserve AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right candidates for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all our efforts and vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for an adequate board the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very simple for all categories except the policy development Working group where we want you to mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates We strongly solicit your support Thank you Wafa Dahmani member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yakmutd at googlemail.com Wed Jul 3 12:28:57 2019 From: yakmutd at googlemail.com (Daniel Yakmut) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 13:28:57 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: <1478031339.474342.1562059823971.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> References: <1478031339.474342.1562059823971.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> Message-ID: DEAR ALL, I STUMBLE ON THE INFO BELOW, IS THIS TRUE AND IS IT OKAY WITHIN THE COMMUNITY? Dear, My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC. I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates: Board of Directors: North Africa (seat 1) Habin Youssef West Africa (seat 2) Ly Ousmane South Africa (seat 5) Mpisane Vika William East Africa (seat 6) Nkusi Robert Ford Non-regional (seat 7) Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye Election Number Resource Organization Number Council Mustapha Ben Jemaa Election Policy Development Working Group Komi Elitcha Sami Hassan Election Governance Committee Daniel Nanghaka Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy and in order to preserve AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right candidates for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all our efforts and vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for an adequate board the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very simple for all categories except the policy development Working group where we want you to mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates We strongly solicit your support Thank you Wafa Dahmani member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member On Tue, Jul 2, 2019, 10:37 AM wafa DAHMANI wrote: > Hi > > > > It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus > foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in Kampala, were > given a confidential Education package on AFRINIC Number Resources > Policy proposals detailed in the following link: > > > https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg > > > The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation views > of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG participants interventions > on the proposals. > > > > The education package so proposed intends to condition these participants > views on the proposals and their contributions at the PPM and after.... > > > > I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual willing to > participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to know who is behind > each source email address... only opinions expressed in the context of the > PDP matter. The substance of contribution really matter. Diversity of views > are encouraged. Lack of disagreement is more important than of agreement. > Also PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence. > > > > RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear on these aspects of the rough > consensus process. > > > > Section 6 > > One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough > consensus. > > > > Section 7 > > Five people for and one hundred people against might still be rough > consensus > > > > My African fellows, > > > > Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process is > legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting was useful to > you and allow you to identify the issues, understand what is going on and > what Africa needs... I hope you?ve made your minds and now able to > speak on your personal capacity.. > > > > The real education package is as below: > > ===== > > > > Proposal to establish AFRINIC > > > http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997 > > > > IANA report on AFRINIC (Accreditation) > > https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf > > > > AFRINIC constitution > > https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws > > > > Registration Service Agreement > > https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa > > > > AFRINIC policy manual > > https://afrinic.net/policy/manual > > > > AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM > > https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre > > > > AFRINIC PDP > > https://www.afrinic.net/policy > > > > Rough Consensus > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282 > > > > AFRINIC current policy proposals > > https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals > > > > RiRs PDPs > > https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/ > > > > RIR comparative policy overview > > https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/ > > ============== > > > > Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way. > > > > Come build African Internet by Africans. > > > > As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation, afrinic > member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of IPv4 is long > established and discussed many times on this list. I hope the fellows would > find these discussions in the archives. > > > > I call the attention of the board on the repetitive attempts of this > resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid intentions... the > provisions of the bylaws and RSA must carefully be applied to recall > members to acceptable code of conduct. > > > > The African Internet community as well as the global Internet community > must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy development process > and operations. > > > > > > -Wafa > _______________________________________________ > RPD mailing list > RPD at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sfolayan at gmail.com Wed Jul 3 13:10:08 2019 From: sfolayan at gmail.com (Sunday Folayan) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 14:10:08 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] 2019 Board Elections: Fix against having sole candidates WAS Re: AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com> References: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com> Message-ID: <8a612bb7-2660-d5f5-1d5f-2e1b47773ba7@gmail.com> Hello Ahmed Fadl and the community, Soliciting for votes is not really a problem, indeed if the proposed candidates have strengths that will be of use to the Board, AfriNIC Ltd and the community at large, their promoters and campaign team can work hard at members buy-in for their proposed candidates without running other candidates down. In this case, what I find disturbing are: 1. That there is an undocumented strategy 2. That the fielding of sole candidates by NOMCOM was part of that undocumented strategy. 3. That other strategies may probably have been deployed in the past. My take on all the issues are that: For 1. ... "Buyers Beware". Enough said. For 2, ... we need to fix that, and fix it as soon as possible. I propose the following fixes: a) NOMCOM should not only present volunteers, it should seek qualified and experienced candidates who will consent to serving on the Board. b) Those who will nominate candidates must seek the concurrence of the candidates before nominating, to eliminate the step of seeking the consent of the candidates after nominations. c) Where there is only one candidate after all said and done, the members should be able to reject such a candidate at the Ballot d) Where candidates are rejected, the incumbent should serve for a maximum of 90 more days, within which an online election should be conducted to fill the vacant seats Do we need to change the bylaws? I don't think so. The proposed fix can go into the AfriNIC election guideline, as allowed by the existing bylaw. It should be shared with the members and the community early, and approved promptly towards the next election. For item 3, ... Perhaps it is too early to comment. Let us grab some pop-corn and stayed tuned to this movie channel. Sunday. On 03/07/2019 12:14 PM, Ahmed Fadl wrote: > > Hi Wafa, > > Thanks for your email. > > I, among other members of AFRINIC in Egypt, received the following > email from you many times. > > I wondered at that time why should I vote for these candidates > specially for those in Eastern and Southern regions while each one was > the sole candidate in his region. I quote this from your email "Ladies > and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy ...." what is your > strategy and who are you ? > > If you are talking about biasing the community, So, do you consider > your email as a "member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member > and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC." fall under what ? > > I sent this mail many time but I don?t know why I can?t find this mail > on community > > Thanks, > > Ahmed Fadl > > *From:*wafa Dahmani [mailto:wafatn7604 at gmail.com] > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 19, 2019 1:05 PM > *To:* wafa Dahmani > *Subject:* AFRINIC Borad Elections > > Dear, > > ?My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the > African community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the > appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance > Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC. > I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates: > > Board of Directors: > North Africa (seat 1) > > * Habin Youssef > > West Africa (seat 2) > > * Ly Ousmane > > > South Africa (seat 5) > > * Mpisane Vika William > > > East Africa (seat 6) > > * Nkusi Robert Ford > > > Non-regional (seat 7) > > * Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye > > > > > Election Number Resource Organization Number Council > > * Mustapha Ben Jemaa > > > Election Policy Development Working Group > > * Komi Elitcha > * Sami Hassan > > > Election Governance Committee > > * Daniel Nanghaka > > Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy? and in order > to preserve AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to > choose the right candidates for North Africa in the long term, it > is desirable to join all our efforts and vote for these candidates > who presents the best choice for an adequate board > > the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is > very simple for all categories except the policy development > Working group where we want you to mobilize your teams on the spot > to vote for our candidates > We strongly solicit your support > > Thank you > > Wafa Dahmani > > member AFRINIC Appeal Committee > Global IGF MAG member > ASO / AC excom member > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -- -------------------------------------------------- Sunday Adekunle Folayan Managing Director General data Engineering Services (SKANNET) 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523 Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com --------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sami.salih at outlook.com Wed Jul 3 13:25:52 2019 From: sami.salih at outlook.com (Sami Salih) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 13:25:52 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: References: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com> , Message-ID: Sander, I'm using a public email (outlook.com) not my official one (sustech.sd), however my signature is MY signature I use it to show the people the ground where I stand when I say something. If I signed as Lecturer in ICT then I say something about Football people should take it as coming from a football fan not from a professional in the field. Conversely, when I participate in something related to education people have to take my comments as serious as its coming from a professional in the field. I hope the point is clear, signature(s) is used to wight the information stated in the message. Using official account is another thing. Dr. Sami H.O. Salih Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST Head of R&D, NTC, SUDAN President of SDv6TF T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 ________________________________ From: Sander Steffann Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2019 3:17 PM To: Sami Salih Cc: Andrew Alston; Ahmed Fadl; wafa Dahmani; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Hi Sami, I see this email sent to individuals to support/campaign for some nominators (I'm not in agreement with all proposed names) who are among the public slat of AFRINIC candidates, IMHO any one is free to campaign. The undersigned signature represent the level of engagement of the sender in the community and gives the recipient more confident about her selection to the benefit of the community. It also implies that those positions are relevant to the content of the message. I would be very surprised if some if those organisations mentioned agree with being drawn into an African election process. I'll be asking the RIPE delegates to the NRO AC about their involvement in this. This is too far from sponsoring youth and educate them in a way that may push them to support/oppose something. Indeed. This is a strong indication of a conflict of interest, while the actions of an independent foundation are not. My personal signature as SUST employee did't mean my view i this email represent SUST! Oh but it does. You are communicating using an official company template. If you are not speaking as an official representative you cannot use that template or you have to be very explicit that you are speaking only for yourself. Otherwise your message WILL be seen as a statement from an employee. Cheers, Sander -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sander at steffann.nl Wed Jul 3 13:26:16 2019 From: sander at steffann.nl (Sander Steffann) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 15:26:16 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: References: <1478031339.474342.1562059823971.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> <20190702203653.Horde.w8XYOZ5zj0KYbKXU_Q9euLb@musatesa.net> Message-ID: Hi, > (1) Larus Foundation sponsors events in different regions in addition to those in Africa. For example, very recently we have sponsored a few candidates of different ethics to attend ICANN in Morocco. You might want to check your geography there and pick a different example ? I understand what you meant though. And helping people to cross regional borders to exchange knowledge and broaden their view is a good thing. Cheers, Sander -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP URL: From sander at steffann.nl Wed Jul 3 13:26:52 2019 From: sander at steffann.nl (Sander Steffann) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 15:26:52 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: References: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com> Message-ID: <4DB38081-0BC3-4630-A49E-C72765B52C68@steffann.nl> Hi Sami, (re-sending because the previous email had a wrong from address) > I see this email sent to individuals to support/campaign for some nominators (I'm not in agreement with all proposed names) who are among the public slat of AFRINIC candidates, IMHO any one is free to campaign. The undersigned signature represent the level of engagement of the sender in the community and gives the recipient more confident about her selection to the benefit of the community. It also implies that those positions are relevant to the content of the message. I would be very surprised if some if those organisations mentioned agree with being drawn into an African election process. I'll be asking the RIPE delegates to the NRO AC about their involvement in this. > This is too far from sponsoring youth and educate them in a way that may push them to support/oppose something. Indeed. This is a strong indication of a conflict of interest, while the actions of an independent foundation are not. > My personal signature as SUST employee did't mean my view i this email represent SUST! Oh but it does. You are communicating using an official company template. If you are not speaking as an official representative you cannot use that template or you have to be very explicit that you are speaking only for yourself. Otherwise your message WILL be seen as a statement from an employee. Cheers, Sander -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP URL: From sander at steffann.nl Wed Jul 3 13:27:55 2019 From: sander at steffann.nl (Sander Steffann) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 15:27:55 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: References: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com> Message-ID: <784191FB-9315-4D1A-9C90-E565F89C08A1@steffann.nl> Hi Sami, > I'm using a public email (outlook.com) not my official one (sustech.sd), however my signature is MY signature I use it to show the people the ground where I stand when I say something. Exactly. Sander -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP URL: From sami.salih at outlook.com Wed Jul 3 13:32:49 2019 From: sami.salih at outlook.com (Sami Salih) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 13:32:49 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: <784191FB-9315-4D1A-9C90-E565F89C08A1@steffann.nl> References: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com> , <784191FB-9315-4D1A-9C90-E565F89C08A1@steffann.nl> Message-ID: So wafa use her public email too :-) Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Sander Steffann Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2019 4:27:55 PM To: Sami Salih Cc: Sander Steffann; Andrew Alston; Ahmed Fadl; wafa Dahmani; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Hi Sami, > I'm using a public email (outlook.com) not my official one (sustech.sd), however my signature is MY signature I use it to show the people the ground where I stand when I say something. Exactly. Sander -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sander at steffann.nl Wed Jul 3 13:35:28 2019 From: sander at steffann.nl (Sander Steffann) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 15:35:28 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: References: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com> <784191FB-9315-4D1A-9C90-E565F89C08A1@steffann.nl> Message-ID: <3F3817F2-7C3A-4DBD-82F7-C26AAC8322A9@steffann.nl> Hi Sami, > So wafa use her public email too :-) Again: it doesn't matter which email address you use, when in the content of the message you claim affiliation. Cheers, Sander -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP URL: From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com Wed Jul 3 13:52:10 2019 From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 13:52:10 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: References: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com> , <784191FB-9315-4D1A-9C90-E565F89C08A1@steffann.nl> Message-ID: Sami, Do yourself a favor ? and go and read up on the doctrine of apparent authority. It makes for some fascinating reading ? particularly the case law in various jurisdictions about email domains and email signatures. I?ll let you draw your own conclusions from what you find, keeping in mind I?m no lawyer ? but I do have an interest in this stuff ? and reading material was? very interesting ? Thanks Andrew From: Sami Salih Sent: Wednesday, 3 July 2019 16:33 To: Sander Steffann Cc: Sander Steffann ; Andrew Alston ; Ahmed Fadl ; wafa Dahmani ; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections So wafa use her public email too :-) Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Sander Steffann > Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2019 4:27:55 PM To: Sami Salih Cc: Sander Steffann; Andrew Alston; Ahmed Fadl; wafa Dahmani; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Hi Sami, > I'm using a public email (outlook.com) not my official one (sustech.sd), however my signature is MY signature I use it to show the people the ground where I stand when I say something. Exactly. Sander -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sami.salih at outlook.com Wed Jul 3 13:54:34 2019 From: sami.salih at outlook.com (Sami Salih) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 13:54:34 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: References: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com> , <784191FB-9315-4D1A-9C90-E565F89C08A1@steffann.nl> , Message-ID: Could you please share the link Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Andrew Alston Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2019 4:52:10 PM To: Sami Salih; Sander Steffann Cc: Sander Steffann; Ahmed Fadl; wafa Dahmani; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: RE: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Sami, Do yourself a favor ? and go and read up on the doctrine of apparent authority. It makes for some fascinating reading ? particularly the case law in various jurisdictions about email domains and email signatures. I?ll let you draw your own conclusions from what you find, keeping in mind I?m no lawyer ? but I do have an interest in this stuff ? and reading material was? very interesting ? Thanks Andrew From: Sami Salih Sent: Wednesday, 3 July 2019 16:33 To: Sander Steffann Cc: Sander Steffann ; Andrew Alston ; Ahmed Fadl ; wafa Dahmani ; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections So wafa use her public email too :-) Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Sander Steffann > Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2019 4:27:55 PM To: Sami Salih Cc: Sander Steffann; Andrew Alston; Ahmed Fadl; wafa Dahmani; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Hi Sami, > I'm using a public email (outlook.com) not my official one (sustech.sd), however my signature is MY signature I use it to show the people the ground where I stand when I say something. Exactly. Sander -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From a.v.p at outsideheaven.com Wed Jul 3 15:29:41 2019 From: a.v.p at outsideheaven.com (Anne-vivien Paris) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 23:29:41 +0800 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship Message-ID: Dear all, Judging from the recent dicussions on our Foundation, we deem it necessary to clarify things in order to prevent any misunderstanding within the community. As stated several times, the Foundation is not a secretive organization. It is a registered NGO recognized by local government and everything we do is obliged by the law. Openness, equity and freedom are our principles. To prevent further confusion, I hereby attach the original copy of the Education Package we provide to our fellow. Nothing has been amended as we would like to show you the original work (an apology goes to the fact that staff mistakenly messed Noah's comment with another party, thanks for pointing that out Noah). In fact, you can also find the T&C in the link below: https://www.larusfoundation.org/fellowship-term-conditions/ We would be more than happy to provide our T&C and education package to the community for review should there be such a request in the future. Best regards, Vivien *Vivien PARIS* *Larus FOUNDATION* p:+44 7746 416450 w: www.larusfoundation.org a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Education Package.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 327932 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jordi.palet at consulintel.es Wed Jul 3 15:43:33 2019 From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ) Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2019 17:43:33 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0DAD89A9-E694-4639-94A9-E3D741D00A94@consulintel.es> Hi Anne-Vivien, I don?t have any doubt about the good intent, but looking at your attachment, it is more negative than good for the community, at least, in my opinion. It is discussing about older versions of the policy proposals (even withdraw ones), so it confuses people. It is citing only some of the inputs in the list and making your own summary of the problem and how it is addressed, so it is biased. It is extracting ?pros? and ?cons?, so again, it is biasing people. I think this should not be done by third parties, but authors and staff (see our previous email on this about a 1-2 pages PDF), not going into 2 and 3 above and making sure that is done 1 week before the meeting, so only *latest* proposals/versions are considered. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 3/7/19 17:34, "Anne-vivien Paris" escribi?: Dear all, Judging from the recent dicussions on our Foundation, we deem it necessary to clarify things in order to prevent any misunderstanding within the community. As stated several times, the Foundation is not a secretive organization. It is a registered NGO recognized by local government and everything we do is obliged by the law. Openness, equity and freedom are our principles. To prevent further confusion, I hereby attach the original copy of the Education Package we provide to our fellow. Nothing has been amended as we would like to show you the original work (an apology goes to the fact that staff mistakenly messed Noah's comment with another party, thanks for pointing that out Noah). In fact, you can also find the T&C in the link below: https://www.larusfoundation.org/fellowship-term-conditions/ We would be more than happy to provide our T&C and education package to the community for review should there be such a request in the future. Best regards, Vivien Vivien PARIS Larus FOUNDATION p:+44 7746 416450 w: www.larusfoundation.org a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wafa at ati.tn Wed Jul 3 15:46:55 2019 From: wafa at ati.tn (wafa DAHMANI) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 17:46:55 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1596679867.567581.1562168815318.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> Hello All, I can campaign for anyone and its perfectly normal and I was speaking in my personal behalf. I understand that my salutations can be confusing, but I sent this email in my personal capacity. Being a volunteer at ASO - AC does not strip me off my rights to my personal opinions nor does it mean I can not campaign for my preferred candidates. In anycase, the ASO - AC has its own procedures and communication channels. Wafa Dahmani Member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member De: "Paschal Ochang" ?: "community-discuss" , "rpd" Envoy?: Mercredi 3 Juillet 2019 16:09:18 Objet: [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani Hello all, this was posted under the thread of allegations against Larus Foundation so I did the honors of opening it as separate thread so that this two issues can be dealt with separately. This was posted as an allegation towards Wafa and the mail displays a act of lobbying. Can this honorable community be clarified on this allegations please. Dear, My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC. I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates: Board of Directors: North Africa (seat 1) Habin Youssef West Africa (seat 2) Ly Ousmane South Africa (seat 5) Mpisane Vika William East Africa (seat 6) Nkusi Robert Ford Non-regional (seat 7) Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye Election Number Resource Organization Number Council Mustapha Ben Jemaa Election Policy Development Working Group Komi Elitcha Sami Hassan Election Governance Committee Daniel Nanghaka Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy and in order to preserve AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right candidates for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all our efforts and vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for an adequate board the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very simple for all categories except the policy development Working group where we want you to mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates We strongly solicit your support Thank you Wafa Dahmani member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member _______________________________________________ RPD mailing list RPD at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jordi.palet at consulintel.es Wed Jul 3 15:57:27 2019 From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ) Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2019 17:57:27 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: <0DAD89A9-E694-4639-94A9-E3D741D00A94@consulintel.es> References: <0DAD89A9-E694-4639-94A9-E3D741D00A94@consulintel.es> Message-ID: <2C250BDD-09BA-4719-994D-EAD01903DF16@consulintel.es> One more point to add. I recall it has been said that fellows don?t sign an NDA and you also indicated that everything is public. However, when I read your T&C, it says: II. FELLOW?S OBLIGATIONS J. LARUS?s intellectual property rights (including but not limited to agreements, documents, software, databases, website) may only be used, reproduced and made available to third parties upon prior written authorization from LARUS. So, I think this is contradictory. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 3/7/19 17:45, "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss" escribi?: Hi Anne-Vivien, I don?t have any doubt about the good intent, but looking at your attachment, it is more negative than good for the community, at least, in my opinion. 1) It is discussing about older versions of the policy proposals (even withdraw ones), so it confuses people. 2) It is citing only some of the inputs in the list and making your own summary of the problem and how it is addressed, so it is biased. 3) It is extracting ?pros? and ?cons?, so again, it is biasing people. I think this should not be done by third parties, but authors and staff (see our previous email on this about a 1-2 pages PDF), not going into 2 and 3 above and making sure that is done 1 week before the meeting, so only *latest* proposals/versions are considered. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 3/7/19 17:34, "Anne-vivien Paris" escribi?: Dear all, Judging from the recent dicussions on our Foundation, we deem it necessary to clarify things in order to prevent any misunderstanding within the community. As stated several times, the Foundation is not a secretive organization. It is a registered NGO recognized by local government and everything we do is obliged by the law. Openness, equity and freedom are our principles. To prevent further confusion, I hereby attach the original copy of the Education Package we provide to our fellow. Nothing has been amended as we would like to show you the original work (an apology goes to the fact that staff mistakenly messed Noah's comment with another party, thanks for pointing that out Noah). In fact, you can also find the T&C in the link below: https://www.larusfoundation.org/fellowship-term-conditions/ We would be more than happy to provide our T&C and education package to the community for review should there be such a request in the future. Best regards, Vivien Vivien PARIS Larus FOUNDATION p:+44 7746 416450 w: www.larusfoundation.org a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jordi.palet at consulintel.es Wed Jul 3 16:04:24 2019 From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ) Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2019 18:04:24 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani Message-ID: Hi Wafa, As I?ve expressed in many occasions, I?m all for freedom of speech. However, when you have a position elected by the community, you need to take care and avoid miss interpretations. That?s means that in your messages you must clearly state ?hat-off? and not remark your positions as ASO-AC, or whatever, just to make 10000% clear that it is your position. Note that even this email from you (which according to what you said now, I understand it is personal) is signed as ?Member AFRINIC Appeal Committee - Global IGF MAG member - ASO / AC excom member?. Just for example, when IETF co-chairs state their opinion for any document (in the email list or in the meeting) they clearly say it is hat-off and is only their personal view. Same when sometimes, chairs of PDP state their position. The question to be clarified anyway, is how you choose your email recipients. It is people that you personally know and have agree to receive your ?campaign? emails, or you used emails from a list or database. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 3/7/19 17:51, "wafa DAHMANI" escribi?: Hello All, I can campaign for anyone and its perfectly normal and I was speaking in my personal behalf.? I understand that my salutations can be confusing, but I sent this email in my personal capacity.? Being a volunteer at ASO - AC does not strip me off my rights to my personal opinions nor does it mean I can not campaign for my preferred candidates. In anycase, the ASO - AC has its own procedures and communication channels. Wafa Dahmani Member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member De: "Paschal Ochang" ?: "community-discuss" , "rpd" Envoy?: Mercredi 3 Juillet 2019 16:09:18 Objet: [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani Hello all, this was posted under the thread of allegations against Larus Foundation so I did the honors of opening it as separate thread so that this two issues can be dealt with separately. This was posted as an allegation towards Wafa and the mail displays a act of lobbying. Can this honorable community be clarified on this allegations please.? Dear, ?My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC. I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates: Board of Directors: North Africa (seat 1) Habin Youssef West Africa (seat 2) Ly Ousmane South Africa (seat 5) Mpisane Vika William East Africa (seat 6) Nkusi Robert Ford Non-regional (seat 7) Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye Election Number Resource Organization Number Council Mustapha Ben Jemaa Election Policy Development Working Group Komi Elitcha Sami Hassan Election Governance Committee Daniel Nanghaka Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy? and in order to preserve AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right candidates for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all our efforts and vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for an adequate board the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very simple for all categories except the policy development Working group where we want you to mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates We strongly solicit your support Thank you Wafa Dahmani member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member _______________________________________________ RPD mailing list RPD at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com Wed Jul 3 16:14:21 2019 From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 16:14:21 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani In-Reply-To: <1596679867.567581.1562168815318.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> References: <1596679867.567581.1562168815318.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> Message-ID: <92B8D2EE-27F4-4320-9F5C-C53131E43C7E@liquidtelecom.com> Wafa, While I agree you have the right to campaign for anyone you so please ? and I believe that is very much the case ? 1. Your email was read as an implication that the ASO was supporting said candidates ? which I don?t think anyone believes ? and the question has been asked in multiple regions to clarify this 2. As a member of the appeal committee ? you have to maintain a position of total neutrality ? this email clearly demonstrates that you are in no way neutral on issues inside the PDP ? since it advocates for the election of co-chairs with no reasons given why ? and requests immediate mobilization to meet ?our strategy?. This email casts serious aspersions on the neutrality of the appeals committee. Furthermore ? can you please clarify to this list ? what exactly is this strategy and who owns this strategy ? you email in this regard was explicit ? there is a strategy ? it is held by multiple individuals outside of the purview of the general community ? and it concerns the placement of members of the board and the PDP ? and I think it is only fair that if lobbying is being done ? it is transparent and open ? and as such ? I would like to know what this strategy is and where it comes from. This email however, was entirely and totally unacceptable in my eyes ? NOT because you lobbied ? I believe as I have said many times that this is your right. It is unacceptable because it implies positions on behalf of other groups who I for one do not believe share that position, it is unacceptable because it is a clear indication of lack of neutrality in a context where neutrality is required, and coming on the heels of what I view as a blatant and unfounded attack on a non-profit foundation ? well ? it really highlights certain things. So again ? myself, and I am sure others, would like to know about this strategy and who ?our? is in the context of ths. Thanks Andrew From: wafa DAHMANI Date: Wednesday, 3 July 2019 at 18:50 To: Paschal Ochang Cc: community-discuss Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani Hello All, I can campaign for anyone and its perfectly normal and I was speaking in my personal behalf. I understand that my salutations can be confusing, but I sent this email in my personal capacity. Being a volunteer at ASO - AC does not strip me off my rights to my personal opinions nor does it mean I can not campaign for my preferred candidates. In anycase, the ASO - AC has its own procedures and communication channels. Wafa Dahmani Member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member ________________________________ De: "Paschal Ochang" ?: "community-discuss" , "rpd" Envoy?: Mercredi 3 Juillet 2019 16:09:18 Objet: [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani Hello all, this was posted under the thread of allegations against Larus Foundation so I did the honors of opening it as separate thread so that this two issues can be dealt with separately. This was posted as an allegation towards Wafa and the mail displays a act of lobbying. Can this honorable community be clarified on this allegations please. Dear, My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC. I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates: Board of Directors: North Africa (seat 1) Habin Youssef West Africa (seat 2) Ly Ousmane South Africa (seat 5) Mpisane Vika William East Africa (seat 6) Nkusi Robert Ford Non-regional (seat 7) Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye Election Number Resource Organization Number Council Mustapha Ben Jemaa Election Policy Development Working Group Komi Elitcha Sami Hassan Election Governance Committee Daniel Nanghaka Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy and in order to preserve AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right candidates for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all our efforts and vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for an adequate board the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very simple for all categories except the policy development Working group where we want you to mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates We strongly solicit your support Thank you Wafa Dahmani member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member _______________________________________________ RPD mailing list RPD at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sander at steffann.nl Wed Jul 3 16:20:08 2019 From: sander at steffann.nl (Sander Steffann) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 18:20:08 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: <0DAD89A9-E694-4639-94A9-E3D741D00A94@consulintel.es> References: <0DAD89A9-E694-4639-94A9-E3D741D00A94@consulintel.es> Message-ID: Hi Jordi, > I think this should not be done by third parties, but authors and staff (see our previous email on this about a 1-2 pages PDF), not going into 2 and 3 above and making sure that is done 1 week before the meeting, so only *latest* proposals/versions are considered. I accept, except s/authors and staff/wg chairs/. Afrinic staff is in a difficult position as their jobs and tasks can be influenced by policy proposals, so asking them to write a non-biased summary isn't fair. The working group chairs have explicitly chosen to represent the working group as a whole and to be neutral regarding proposals, so they are the most appropriate people to make summaries. It's what they do when determining consensus anyway, so it is already part of their tasks. Sharing that before a face-to-face meeting would be very helpful and will help focus the discussions there. Cheers! Sander -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP URL: From jordi.palet at consulintel.es Wed Jul 3 16:24:15 2019 From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ) Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2019 18:24:15 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: References: <0DAD89A9-E694-4639-94A9-E3D741D00A94@consulintel.es> Message-ID: <9529609C-6709-47CC-BF20-4700D7AD1A82@consulintel.es> Hi Sander, I agree with your if we mean summary of the discussion, but actually I was meaning summary of the proposal, which in fact is already requested in the proposal forms and is already done by authors. Sometimes that's more a single paragraph, so in those cases I think it should be up to the authors to prepare it. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet ?El 3/7/19 18:20, "Sander Steffann" escribi?: Hi Jordi, > I think this should not be done by third parties, but authors and staff (see our previous email on this about a 1-2 pages PDF), not going into 2 and 3 above and making sure that is done 1 week before the meeting, so only *latest* proposals/versions are considered. I accept, except s/authors and staff/wg chairs/. Afrinic staff is in a difficult position as their jobs and tasks can be influenced by policy proposals, so asking them to write a non-biased summary isn't fair. The working group chairs have explicitly chosen to represent the working group as a whole and to be neutral regarding proposals, so they are the most appropriate people to make summaries. It's what they do when determining consensus anyway, so it is already part of their tasks. Sharing that before a face-to-face meeting would be very helpful and will help focus the discussions there. Cheers! Sander ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. From sander at steffann.nl Wed Jul 3 16:27:59 2019 From: sander at steffann.nl (Sander Steffann) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 18:27:59 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani In-Reply-To: <92B8D2EE-27F4-4320-9F5C-C53131E43C7E@liquidtelecom.com> References: <1596679867.567581.1562168815318.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> <92B8D2EE-27F4-4320-9F5C-C53131E43C7E@liquidtelecom.com> Message-ID: Hi, > ? Your email was read as an implication that the ASO was supporting said candidates ? which I don?t think anyone believes ? and the question has been asked in multiple regions to clarify this I have asked my local representatives. I think it is up to the ASO/AC to determine if they felt misrepresented in this case, and to take action if they think they should. > ? As a member of the appeal committee ? you have to maintain a position of total neutrality ? this email clearly demonstrates that you are in no way neutral on issues inside the PDP ? since it advocates for the election of co-chairs with no reasons given why ? and requests immediate mobilization to meet ?our strategy?. This email casts serious aspersions on the neutrality of the appeals committee. I fully agree. Even worse: as far as I can see in the minutes Wafa is the chair of the appeal committee. I think it would be appropriate for her to step down from the committee at this point, to protect the perceived integrity of the appeal committee. Cheers, Sander -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP URL: From sander at steffann.nl Wed Jul 3 16:30:30 2019 From: sander at steffann.nl (Sander Steffann) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 18:30:30 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: <9529609C-6709-47CC-BF20-4700D7AD1A82@consulintel.es> References: <0DAD89A9-E694-4639-94A9-E3D741D00A94@consulintel.es> <9529609C-6709-47CC-BF20-4700D7AD1A82@consulintel.es> Message-ID: <1464974A-8421-4FEC-9ABD-9E8058B91E6E@steffann.nl> Hi, > I agree with your if we mean summary of the discussion, but actually I was meaning summary of the proposal, which in fact is already requested in the proposal forms and is already done by authors. Sometimes that's more a single paragraph, so in those cases I think it should be up to the authors to prepare it. I'm not sure that such a proposal summary would be useful. Newcomers can read those from the proposals themselves. The difficult thing to learn is how the proposal's potential impact is perceived and discussed. That part can take up much time, and that is where I see the usefulness of a neutral summary. Cheers, Sander -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP URL: From a.v.p at outsideheaven.com Wed Jul 3 16:46:18 2019 From: a.v.p at outsideheaven.com (Anne-vivien Paris) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2019 00:46:18 +0800 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: <2C250BDD-09BA-4719-994D-EAD01903DF16@consulintel.es> References: <0DAD89A9-E694-4639-94A9-E3D741D00A94@consulintel.es> <2C250BDD-09BA-4719-994D-EAD01903DF16@consulintel.es> Message-ID: Hi Jordi, Thank you for your input. Our intention of making this education package is to help those newcomers by providing them a brief introduction to the massive amount of discussions on the mailing list. Afrinic website is complicated and intimidating for beginners and we all know it is not that user-friendly and organised. When conducting the material, we have tried our best to make it unbiased and all quotations are selected on a random basis, unfavourable of any particular party. I agree with you that pros and cons may not be the best classifications, as it does limit the scope of discussion. The classification is used merely because we deem it a relatively easy and accessible way to understand the content as a starting point. The package is solely intended to help our fellows as a user-friendly introductory package to them. Indeed, the package is not perfect and there is a lot of space for improvement. We thank you for pointing out the problems as this allows us to improve. Regarding your doubt regarding our T&C, please kindly note that the statement of protecting intellectual property rights is commonly found in fellowship programmes of NGO and tertiary institutions. Let?s take RIPE?s fellowship programme as a reference; in article 7.2 , it is written, ?The RIPE NCC's intellectual property rights (agreements, documents, software, databases, website, RIPE NCC Material) may only be used, reproduced and made available to third parties upon prior written authorisation from the RIPE NCC and in accordance with the RIPE NCC Copyright Statement.? (Link: https://www.ripe.net/participate/ripe/ripe-fellowship/ripe-fellowship-terms-and-conditions). Although we do not have NDA, we protect our intellectual properties as we value our staff and member?s contribution and copyrights. We believe each individual?s intellectual property shall be strictly protected under today?s Internet World to prevent plagiarism. If you consult a lawyer, it is most likely he will tell you that NDA and protection of intellectual property rights are entirely different things. The difference between these two is that with protection of intellectual property rights, it is totally fine if you talk to a third party about the programme and its details, but distributing Larus Foundation?s intellectual property without our writing consent is not acceptable. This is just to protect our intellectual property rights and it does not in any sense restrict our fellow?s freedom of speech. As a NGO, we respect and value the community?s voice as it is what we serve. The reason we published this here is because we want to let the community know that we are transparent and open. Knowing the ?pros? and ?cons? of this education package is not our intention, but the scope and potential of improvement you showed us is very much valuable and appreciated. Best, Vivien *Vivien PARIS* *LARUS FOUNDATION* p:+44 7746 416450 w: www.larusfoundation.org a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR On Wed, 3 Jul 2019 at 23:58, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss < community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > One more point to add. > > > > I recall it has been said that fellows don?t sign an NDA and you also > indicated that everything is public. > > > > However, when I read your T&C, it says: > > > > II. FELLOW?S OBLIGATIONS > > J. LARUS?s intellectual property rights (including but not limited to > agreements, documents, software, databases, website) may only be used, > reproduced and made available to third parties upon prior written > authorization from LARUS. > > > > So, I think this is contradictory. > > > > Regards, > > Jordi > > @jordipalet > > > > > > > > El 3/7/19 17:45, "JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss" < > community-discuss at afrinic.net> escribi?: > > > > Hi Anne-Vivien, > > > > I don?t have any doubt about the good intent, but looking at your > attachment, it is more negative than good for the community, at least, in > my opinion. > > > > 1) It is discussing about older versions of the policy proposals > (even withdraw ones), so it confuses people. > > 2) It is citing only some of the inputs in the list and making your > own summary of the problem and how it is addressed, so it is biased. > > 3) It is extracting ?pros? and ?cons?, so again, it is biasing > people. > > > > I think this should not be done by third parties, but authors and staff > (see our previous email on this about a 1-2 pages PDF), not going into 2 > and 3 above and making sure that is done 1 week before the meeting, so only > **latest** proposals/versions are considered. > > > > Regards, > > Jordi > > @jordipalet > > > > > > > > El 3/7/19 17:34, "Anne-vivien Paris" escribi?: > > > > Dear all, > > > > Judging from the recent dicussions on our Foundation, we deem it necessary > to clarify things in order to prevent any misunderstanding within the > community. > > > > As stated several times, the Foundation is not a secretive organization. > It is a registered NGO recognized by local government and everything we do > is obliged by the law. Openness, equity and freedom are our principles. To > prevent further confusion, I hereby attach the original copy of the > Education Package we provide to our fellow. Nothing has been amended as we > would like to show you the original work (an apology goes to the fact that > staff mistakenly messed Noah's comment with another party, thanks for > pointing that out Noah). > > > > In fact, you can also find the T&C in the link below: > > https://www.larusfoundation.org/fellowship-term-conditions/ > > > > We would be more than happy to provide our T&C and education package to > the community for review should there be such a request in the future. > > > > Best regards, > > Vivien > > *Vivien PARIS* > *Larus FOUNDATION* > p:+44 7746 416450 > > w: www.larusfoundation.org > a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR > > _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing > list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > ********************************************** > IPv4 is over > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > http://www.theipv6company.com > The IPv6 Company > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or > confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of > the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized > disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this > information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly > prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the > intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or > use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including > attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal > offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this > communication and delete it. > > _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing > list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > ********************************************** > IPv4 is over > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > http://www.theipv6company.com > The IPv6 Company > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or > confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of > the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized > disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this > information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly > prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the > intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or > use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including > attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal > offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this > communication and delete it. > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -- *Vivien * *Larus Cloud Service Limited* p:+852 29888918 f:+852 29888368 e:a.v.p at laruscloudservice.net w:laruscloudservice.net/ a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net Wed Jul 3 17:13:56 2019 From: Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net (Omo Oaiya) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 18:13:56 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani In-Reply-To: References: <1596679867.567581.1562168815318.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> <92B8D2EE-27F4-4320-9F5C-C53131E43C7E@liquidtelecom.com> Message-ID: <0C56B098-C7BF-4582-89E2-1A79C14BE9AF@wacren.net> > On 3 Jul 2019, at 17:27, Sander Steffann wrote: > > Hi, > >> ? Your email was read as an implication that the ASO was supporting said candidates ? which I don?t think anyone believes ? and the question has been asked in multiple regions to clarify this > > I have asked my local representatives. I think it is up to the ASO/AC to determine if they felt misrepresented in this case, and to take action if they think they should. >> >> El 3/7/19 17:51, "wafa DAHMANI" escribi?: >> >> Hello All, >> >> I can campaign for anyone and its perfectly normal and I was speaking in my personal behalf. Wafa says clearly above that she spoke on her own behalf. As one of AFRINIC?s representatives to the ASO/AC, this is good enough for me. I see the three affiliations listed in her signature as just that, a reference to her identity and don?t see how she could have been speaking on behalf of just one in the list. Omo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jordi.palet at consulintel.es Wed Jul 3 17:28:14 2019 From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ) Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2019 19:28:14 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: <1464974A-8421-4FEC-9ABD-9E8058B91E6E@steffann.nl> References: <0DAD89A9-E694-4639-94A9-E3D741D00A94@consulintel.es> <9529609C-6709-47CC-BF20-4700D7AD1A82@consulintel.es> <1464974A-8421-4FEC-9ABD-9E8058B91E6E@steffann.nl> Message-ID: Hi Sander, It was a continuation of the thread, where I was suggesting that if there is a need for a summary, it can be done in a 1-2 pages document for "all" the policy proposals, with links to each one, to be used as a short reference when training newcomers. ?El 3/7/19 18:30, "Sander Steffann" escribi?: Hi, > I agree with your if we mean summary of the discussion, but actually I was meaning summary of the proposal, which in fact is already requested in the proposal forms and is already done by authors. Sometimes that's more a single paragraph, so in those cases I think it should be up to the authors to prepare it. I'm not sure that such a proposal summary would be useful. Newcomers can read those from the proposals themselves. The difficult thing to learn is how the proposal's potential impact is perceived and discussed. That part can take up much time, and that is where I see the usefulness of a neutral summary. Cheers, Sander ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. From muyiwacaleb at gmail.com Wed Jul 3 18:15:02 2019 From: muyiwacaleb at gmail.com (Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 19:15:02 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: <1A0EEFFC-D29F-4D63-9906-D3743D93411D@gmail.com> References: <1478031339.474342.1562059823971.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> <1A0EEFFC-D29F-4D63-9906-D3743D93411D@gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Taiwo, I do not speak for AFRINIC but I will like to correct some wrong assumption or impression in you email. See comments inline below in blue color markings On Tue, Jul 2, 2019, 2:32 PM Taiwo Oyewande wrote: > Hi all, > > Taking a good look at this resource, it is obviously a summary of the > policies to be discussed. > > Larus fellowship tends towards promoting the youth - students included-. I > think this summary will be a good starting point for new members who are > fresh in the policy development process. > > On this note, i will like to encourage Afrinic to emulate the foundation > and come up with an official summary like this before every meeting to > enable new and interested members get up to speed quickly. > *Caleb:* You are within your right to encourage anybody or an organization as you wish in a public mailing list. However, I will take some exception to your opinion that AFRINIC should emulate a fellowship program that recently started. If you have ever been through the *rigorous and competitive selection process of being an AFRINIC fellow,* you will reverse your statement and maybe tender and apology to that effect. just to provide you with some information as a former AFRINIC fellow: 1. Part of evaluation that might likely assist any applicant in getting selected is the ability to have been *actively and independently contributing to the mailing list of RPD* without being gagged/boxed into a corner while expressing his / her opinion. The prospective fellow would have gone through the RDP archive, made reasonable contributions irrespective of the bias they have in expressing their views. In every AFRINIC fellowship form that is pushed out during fellowship application call, applicants are asked to demonstrate by posting evidence of their contribution to the RPD mailing list. I will not know the reason but i'm sure it sure gives the applicant some competitive edge over other applicants. 2. *After selection as fellow*: Applicants will pass through some pre-meeting webinars where you will be given policy summaries and asked to read ahead and discuss among other fellows. These fellows are given a mentor who guides them and helps them understand any grey area also with the help of staff. 3. *Onsite:* A WhatsApp and mailing list is esthablished for continuous interaction of fellows. The interesting part is where fellows have a *DAILY RECAP session on the policies through out the meeting. *Fellows freely ask mentors and AFRINIC staff questions on grey areas they do not understand are encouraged to go to the open mic without any pre-conceived perception to speak up freely. No one is penalized or won't get thier stipends if they oppose or support policy. 4. On completion of the fellowship program, they are inducted into the larger fellows program with alumni where there is continuous discussion almost on a weekly or bi-weekly/monthly basis on AFRINIC policies either on the fellowship alumni mailing list and WhatsApp group. Therefore, it is imperative to separate the issues being discussed and not bring in the AFRINIC fellowship program which I'm proud to be the alumnus into any form of controversy as we like to engage strictly on issues that affect the policy and the continent from an internet policy perspective only. We also welcome every active member to apply and participate in the AFRINIC fellowship program as it is rewarding. *Caleb Ogundele* > > Cheers. > > Taiwo O > > > > On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 at 20:36, Andrew Alston < > Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com> wrote: > >> Wafa, >> >> So ? let me say this. I see a document here ? which lays out the >> policies ? and provides a perspective of problems, it also lists the pros >> and cons. Yes, Lazarus may have used the foundation to lobby for its >> position, but ? one of the things that I have long accepted in my life is ? >> if you believe in something ? you have to lobby for it ? and to be frank ? >> the summary that I see in this document ? is something that by and large ? >> should have been done long before they got around to it. >> >> If I, as an individual, feel strongly about something, I am entirely free >> to go and advocate for my position. I am also entirely free to sponsor >> people to come to a public meeting ? and I am entirely free to choose those >> people as I so wish, if I choose the people who agree with me, well, that?s >> life ? but it certainly aint against the rules, it is the political nature >> of internet policy development. Do you think that similar does not happen >> elsewhere? People lobby for the positions that they care about. It >> happens in politics, it happens in life, and yet now we want to cry when >> someone else does the same thing. >> >> Let me also say ? it?s not like this hasn?t been happening before ? and I >> want to quote from the OIF website: *IOF organises political activities >> and actions of multilateral cooperation that benefit French-speaking >> populations.* >> >> Yet ? this is an organization that for years has spent money filling the >> room with people ? and that statement does not say ? is of benefit to >> Africa ? it does not say is of benefit to the African continent ? it does >> not say is to the benefit of the continent ? it singles out a single >> demographic on the continent and says ? we do what we do for their >> benefit. Now, let me be very clear, if they wish to do that ? I?m >> actually ok with it ? though I admit I have waivered on this stance ? >> however, we cannot say ? because it?s a government political organization ? >> it?s ok ? but when a member chooses to have a foundation ? and sponsor >> people to the meetings ? and then lobby for the positions that member is >> passionate about ? suddenly its wrong. That is called hypocrisy. >> >> In Point Noire, I watched people walk to the microphone ? with slips of >> paper and read a comment on a policy ? and then go and sit down ? and the >> same happened in Botswana. Except, what I found was, when queried on the >> position that was taken at the microphone, the individual reading what they >> had off the paper, had patently obviously never read the policy and didn?t >> understand the position they were taking themselves. So who was behind >> that? And all of that ? is on video for the world to see ? but ? it was ok >> then ? suddenly it changes now because we don?t like the individual doing >> it? >> >> Sorry ? this isn?t the way it works ? and let me be clear ? Lu Heng is >> not a friend of mine, and in fact in Mauritius I had some pretty strong >> things to say to him to his face, in front of others who will testify to >> what I said to him ? however ? I respect his rights as a member to >> participate in what is essentially a democratic process, that means ? I >> respect his right to lobby for his views, I respect his right to put boots >> on the ground, and I respect his right to have his say. In the same way ? >> I respect the right of any member to do that ? and I respect the right of >> the members to then rebut what is said if they do not agree with it. It >> is through this lobbying position and through the back and forth that >> accompanies it, that great policy is born ? it is not through acquiescence, >> nor is it through the silencing of the rights of others. >> >> My view ? if anyone wants to come into the room and have their say ? so >> be it ? that is bottom up. If people want to lobby their positions ? so be >> it ? that is bottom up. If people want to spend money running tv adverts >> about their positions for all I care ? so be it ? that is the nature of the >> democratic position. If people want to bus a thousand people who share >> their views ? again ? so be it ? that is the democratic process. However, >> it is the community who then need to rebut ? but ? the rebuttal should be >> on the policy itself. What I see here however, is a rebuttal of policy and >> a lobbying position taken on the **content** of the policy ? unlike what >> I have seen time and again in the meetings where the lobbying position has >> NOTHING to do with the content or the policy. >> >> So rather than malign Lazarus for their actions here ? quite frankly, >> reading this document, and as much as as I have said, Lu and I have some >> serious differences, I applaud Lazarus for the comprehensive work ? and I >> applaud them for taking a stance that was based on the policy and I embrace >> their right to lobby for their position in any way shape or form. That is >> not to say I agree with the positions taken in this document ? I will >> reserve my policy comments for the policies and based on my own >> interpretation of such ? but ? I embrace the fact that at least, it was >> done based on what was written, and not on personal relationships, personal >> attacks, demographics, or anything else. >> >> >> >> So ? to Lazarus ? thank you for a job well done in the fact that you >> lobbied your position based on the policies ? and left the other garbage >> behind, which is what we so often see. >> >> >> >> Finally ? again ? I respect the right to do what they did ? and >> >> >> >> *THAT IS DEMOCRATIC* >> >> >> >> Thanks >> >> >> >> Andrew >> >> >> >> *From:* wafa DAHMANI >> *Sent:* Tuesday, 2 July 2019 12:30 >> *To:* community-discuss at afrinic.net >> *Cc:* rpd at afrinic.net >> *Subject:* [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship >> >> >> >> Hi >> >> >> >> It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus >> foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in Kampala, were >> given a confidential Education package on AFRINIC Number Resources Policy >> proposals detailed in the following link: >> >> >> >> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg >> >> >> >> The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation views >> of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG participants interventions >> on the proposals. >> >> >> >> The education package so proposed intends to condition these participants >> views on the proposals and their contributions at the PPM and after.... >> >> >> >> I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual willing to >> participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to know who is behind >> each source email address... only opinions expressed in the context of the >> PDP matter. The substance of contribution really matter. Diversity of views >> are encouraged. Lack of disagreement is more important than of agreement. >> Also PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence. >> >> >> >> RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear on these aspects of the rough >> consensus process. >> >> >> >> Section 6 >> >> One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough >> consensus. >> >> >> >> Section 7 >> >> Five people for and one hundred people against might still be rough >> consensus >> >> >> >> My African fellows, >> >> >> >> Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process is >> legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting was useful to >> you and allow you to identify the issues, understand what is going on and >> what Africa needs... I hope you?ve made your minds and now able to speak >> on your personal capacity.. >> >> >> >> The real education package is as below: >> >> ===== >> >> >> >> Proposal to establish AFRINIC >> >> >> http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997 >> >> >> >> IANA report on AFRINIC (Accreditation) >> >> https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf >> >> >> >> AFRINIC constitution >> >> https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws >> >> >> >> Registration Service Agreement >> >> https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa >> >> >> >> AFRINIC policy manual >> >> https://afrinic.net/policy/manual >> >> >> >> AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM >> >> https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre >> >> >> >> AFRINIC PDP >> >> https://www.afrinic.net/policy >> >> >> >> Rough Consensus >> >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282 >> >> >> >> AFRINIC current policy proposals >> >> https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals >> >> >> >> RiRs PDPs >> >> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/ >> >> >> >> RIR comparative policy overview >> >> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/ >> >> ============== >> >> >> >> Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way. >> >> >> >> Come build African Internet by Africans. >> >> >> >> As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation, afrinic >> member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of IPv4 is long >> established and discussed many times on this list. I hope the fellows would >> find these discussions in the archives. >> >> >> >> I call the attention of the board on the repetitive attempts of this >> resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid intentions... the >> provisions of the bylaws and RSA must carefully be applied to recall >> members to acceptable code of conduct. >> >> >> >> The African Internet community as well as the global Internet community >> must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy development process >> and operations. >> >> >> >> >> >> -Wafa >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > > > -- > *Vivien * > *Larus Cloud Service Limited* > p:+852 29888918 > f:+852 29888368 > e:a.v.p at laruscloudservice.net > w:laruscloudservice.net/ > a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > RPD mailing list > RPD at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From muyiwacaleb at gmail.com Wed Jul 3 18:21:19 2019 From: muyiwacaleb at gmail.com (Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 19:21:19 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: References: <1478031339.474342.1562059823971.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> <1A0EEFFC-D29F-4D63-9906-D3743D93411D@gmail.com> Message-ID: @Taiwo Ohhh... I almost forgot... AFRINIC has a newcomer's day. Even the PDP Co-Chairs gets to address newcomers on the current policies for each meeting with earlier summaries fellows or newcomers have been introduced to on AFRINIC's website. On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 7:15 PM Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele < muyiwacaleb at gmail.com> wrote: > Dear Taiwo, > > I do not speak for AFRINIC but I will like to correct some wrong > assumption or impression in you email. > > See comments inline below in blue color markings > > > On Tue, Jul 2, 2019, 2:32 PM Taiwo Oyewande > wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> Taking a good look at this resource, it is obviously a summary of the >> policies to be discussed. >> >> Larus fellowship tends towards promoting the youth - students included-. >> I think this summary will be a good starting point for new members who are >> fresh in the policy development process. >> >> On this note, i will like to encourage Afrinic to emulate the foundation >> and come up with an official summary like this before every meeting to >> enable new and interested members get up to speed quickly. >> > > *Caleb:* You are within your right to encourage anybody or an > organization as you wish in a public mailing list. > However, I will take some exception to your opinion that AFRINIC should > emulate a fellowship program that recently started. If you have ever been > through the *rigorous and competitive selection process of being an > AFRINIC fellow,* you will reverse your statement and maybe tender and > apology to that effect. just to provide you with some information as a > former AFRINIC fellow: > > 1. Part of evaluation that might likely assist any applicant in getting > selected is the ability to have been *actively and independently > contributing to the mailing list of RPD* without being gagged/boxed into > a corner while expressing his / her opinion. The prospective fellow would > have gone through the RDP archive, made reasonable contributions > irrespective of the bias they have in expressing their views. In every AFRINIC > fellowship form that is pushed out during fellowship application call, > applicants are asked to demonstrate by posting evidence of their > contribution to the RPD mailing list. I will not know the reason but i'm > sure it sure gives the applicant some competitive edge over other > applicants. > > 2. *After selection as fellow*: Applicants will pass through some > pre-meeting webinars where you will be given policy summaries and asked to > read ahead and discuss among other fellows. These fellows are given a > mentor who guides them and helps them understand any grey area also with > the help of staff. > > 3. *Onsite:* A WhatsApp and mailing list is esthablished for continuous > interaction of fellows. The interesting part is where fellows have a *DAILY > RECAP session on the policies through out the meeting. *Fellows freely > ask mentors and AFRINIC staff questions on grey areas they do not > understand are encouraged to go to the open mic without any pre-conceived > perception to speak up freely. No one is penalized or won't get thier > stipends if they oppose or support policy. > > 4. On completion of the fellowship program, they are inducted into the > larger fellows program with alumni where there is continuous discussion > almost on a weekly or bi-weekly/monthly basis on AFRINIC policies either on > the fellowship alumni mailing list and WhatsApp group. > > Therefore, it is imperative to separate the issues being discussed and not > bring in the AFRINIC fellowship program which I'm proud to be the alumnus > into any form of controversy as we like to engage strictly on issues that > affect the policy and the continent from an internet policy perspective > only. > > We also welcome every active member to apply and participate in the > AFRINIC fellowship program as it is rewarding. > > *Caleb Ogundele* > > > > > >> >> Cheers. >> >> Taiwo O >> >> >> >> On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 at 20:36, Andrew Alston < >> Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com> wrote: >> >>> Wafa, >>> >>> So ? let me say this. I see a document here ? which lays out the >>> policies ? and provides a perspective of problems, it also lists the pros >>> and cons. Yes, Lazarus may have used the foundation to lobby for its >>> position, but ? one of the things that I have long accepted in my life is ? >>> if you believe in something ? you have to lobby for it ? and to be frank ? >>> the summary that I see in this document ? is something that by and large ? >>> should have been done long before they got around to it. >>> >>> If I, as an individual, feel strongly about something, I am entirely >>> free to go and advocate for my position. I am also entirely free to >>> sponsor people to come to a public meeting ? and I am entirely free to >>> choose those people as I so wish, if I choose the people who agree with me, >>> well, that?s life ? but it certainly aint against the rules, it is the >>> political nature of internet policy development. Do you think that similar >>> does not happen elsewhere? People lobby for the positions that they care >>> about. It happens in politics, it happens in life, and yet now we want to >>> cry when someone else does the same thing. >>> >>> Let me also say ? it?s not like this hasn?t been happening before ? and >>> I want to quote from the OIF website: *IOF organises political >>> activities and actions of multilateral cooperation that benefit >>> French-speaking populations.* >>> >>> Yet ? this is an organization that for years has spent money filling the >>> room with people ? and that statement does not say ? is of benefit to >>> Africa ? it does not say is of benefit to the African continent ? it does >>> not say is to the benefit of the continent ? it singles out a single >>> demographic on the continent and says ? we do what we do for their >>> benefit. Now, let me be very clear, if they wish to do that ? I?m >>> actually ok with it ? though I admit I have waivered on this stance ? >>> however, we cannot say ? because it?s a government political organization ? >>> it?s ok ? but when a member chooses to have a foundation ? and sponsor >>> people to the meetings ? and then lobby for the positions that member is >>> passionate about ? suddenly its wrong. That is called hypocrisy. >>> >>> In Point Noire, I watched people walk to the microphone ? with slips of >>> paper and read a comment on a policy ? and then go and sit down ? and the >>> same happened in Botswana. Except, what I found was, when queried on the >>> position that was taken at the microphone, the individual reading what they >>> had off the paper, had patently obviously never read the policy and didn?t >>> understand the position they were taking themselves. So who was behind >>> that? And all of that ? is on video for the world to see ? but ? it was ok >>> then ? suddenly it changes now because we don?t like the individual doing >>> it? >>> >>> Sorry ? this isn?t the way it works ? and let me be clear ? Lu Heng is >>> not a friend of mine, and in fact in Mauritius I had some pretty strong >>> things to say to him to his face, in front of others who will testify to >>> what I said to him ? however ? I respect his rights as a member to >>> participate in what is essentially a democratic process, that means ? I >>> respect his right to lobby for his views, I respect his right to put boots >>> on the ground, and I respect his right to have his say. In the same way ? >>> I respect the right of any member to do that ? and I respect the right of >>> the members to then rebut what is said if they do not agree with it. It >>> is through this lobbying position and through the back and forth that >>> accompanies it, that great policy is born ? it is not through acquiescence, >>> nor is it through the silencing of the rights of others. >>> >>> My view ? if anyone wants to come into the room and have their say ? so >>> be it ? that is bottom up. If people want to lobby their positions ? so be >>> it ? that is bottom up. If people want to spend money running tv adverts >>> about their positions for all I care ? so be it ? that is the nature of the >>> democratic position. If people want to bus a thousand people who share >>> their views ? again ? so be it ? that is the democratic process. However, >>> it is the community who then need to rebut ? but ? the rebuttal should be >>> on the policy itself. What I see here however, is a rebuttal of policy and >>> a lobbying position taken on the **content** of the policy ? unlike >>> what I have seen time and again in the meetings where the lobbying position >>> has NOTHING to do with the content or the policy. >>> >>> So rather than malign Lazarus for their actions here ? quite frankly, >>> reading this document, and as much as as I have said, Lu and I have some >>> serious differences, I applaud Lazarus for the comprehensive work ? and I >>> applaud them for taking a stance that was based on the policy and I embrace >>> their right to lobby for their position in any way shape or form. That is >>> not to say I agree with the positions taken in this document ? I will >>> reserve my policy comments for the policies and based on my own >>> interpretation of such ? but ? I embrace the fact that at least, it was >>> done based on what was written, and not on personal relationships, personal >>> attacks, demographics, or anything else. >>> >>> >>> >>> So ? to Lazarus ? thank you for a job well done in the fact that you >>> lobbied your position based on the policies ? and left the other garbage >>> behind, which is what we so often see. >>> >>> >>> >>> Finally ? again ? I respect the right to do what they did ? and >>> >>> >>> >>> *THAT IS DEMOCRATIC* >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> >>> >>> Andrew >>> >>> >>> >>> *From:* wafa DAHMANI >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, 2 July 2019 12:30 >>> *To:* community-discuss at afrinic.net >>> *Cc:* rpd at afrinic.net >>> *Subject:* [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> >>> >>> It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus >>> foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in Kampala, were >>> given a confidential Education package on AFRINIC Number Resources Policy >>> proposals detailed in the following link: >>> >>> >>> >>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg >>> >>> >>> >>> The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation views >>> of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG participants interventions >>> on the proposals. >>> >>> >>> >>> The education package so proposed intends to condition these >>> participants views on the proposals and their contributions at the PPM and >>> after.... >>> >>> >>> >>> I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual willing to >>> participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to know who is behind >>> each source email address... only opinions expressed in the context of the >>> PDP matter. The substance of contribution really matter. Diversity of views >>> are encouraged. Lack of disagreement is more important than of agreement. >>> Also PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence. >>> >>> >>> >>> RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear on these aspects of the rough >>> consensus process. >>> >>> >>> >>> Section 6 >>> >>> One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough >>> consensus. >>> >>> >>> >>> Section 7 >>> >>> Five people for and one hundred people against might still be rough >>> consensus >>> >>> >>> >>> My African fellows, >>> >>> >>> >>> Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process is >>> legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting was useful to >>> you and allow you to identify the issues, understand what is going on and >>> what Africa needs... I hope you?ve made your minds and now able to speak >>> on your personal capacity.. >>> >>> >>> >>> The real education package is as below: >>> >>> ===== >>> >>> >>> >>> Proposal to establish AFRINIC >>> >>> >>> http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997 >>> >>> >>> >>> IANA report on AFRINIC (Accreditation) >>> >>> https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf >>> >>> >>> >>> AFRINIC constitution >>> >>> https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws >>> >>> >>> >>> Registration Service Agreement >>> >>> https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa >>> >>> >>> >>> AFRINIC policy manual >>> >>> https://afrinic.net/policy/manual >>> >>> >>> >>> AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM >>> >>> https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre >>> >>> >>> >>> AFRINIC PDP >>> >>> https://www.afrinic.net/policy >>> >>> >>> >>> Rough Consensus >>> >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282 >>> >>> >>> >>> AFRINIC current policy proposals >>> >>> https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals >>> >>> >>> >>> RiRs PDPs >>> >>> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/ >>> >>> >>> >>> RIR comparative policy overview >>> >>> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/ >>> >>> ============== >>> >>> >>> >>> Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way. >>> >>> >>> >>> Come build African Internet by Africans. >>> >>> >>> >>> As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation, afrinic >>> member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of IPv4 is long >>> established and discussed many times on this list. I hope the fellows would >>> find these discussions in the archives. >>> >>> >>> >>> I call the attention of the board on the repetitive attempts of this >>> resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid intentions... the >>> provisions of the bylaws and RSA must carefully be applied to recall >>> members to acceptable code of conduct. >>> >>> >>> >>> The African Internet community as well as the global Internet community >>> must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy development process >>> and operations. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -Wafa >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Community-Discuss mailing list >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >>> >> >> >> -- >> *Vivien * >> *Larus Cloud Service Limited* >> p:+852 29888918 >> f:+852 29888368 >> e:a.v.p at laruscloudservice.net >> w:laruscloudservice.net/ >> a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> >> _______________________________________________ >> RPD mailing list >> RPD at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd >> > -- *Ogundele Olumuyiwa Caleb* *muyiwacaleb at gmail.com * *234 - 8077377378* *234 - 07030777969* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hkariuki at isoc.or.ke Wed Jul 3 18:35:00 2019 From: hkariuki at isoc.or.ke (hkariuki at isoc.or.ke) Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2019 21:35:00 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: <1A0EEFFC-D29F-4D63-9906-D3743D93411D@gmail.com> References: <1478031339.474342.1562059823971.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> <1A0EEFFC-D29F-4D63-9906-D3743D93411D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20ca2157fc00c35bb07dec20cc4408fd@isoc.or.ke> Taiwo, I am a first time Afrinic 30 fellow and attended the last AIS meeting in Kampala and therefore by extension an Afrinic Alumni. I can confirm that we were given summary and links to the policies before the meeting. We also had a webinar before the meeting and materials emailed to us and onsite discussions and after we join the mailing lists to continue learning and contributing to policy discussions. Regards, Hellen On 2019-07-02 16:25, Taiwo Oyewande wrote: > Hi all, > > Taking a good look at this resource, it is obviously a summary of the > policies to be discussed. > > Larus fellowship tends towards promoting the youth - students > included-. I think this summary will be a good starting point for new > members who are fresh in the policy development process. > > On this note, i will like to encourage Afrinic to emulate the > foundation and come up with an official summary like this before every > meeting to enable new and interested members get up to speed quickly. > > Cheers. > > Taiwo O > >> On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 at 20:36, Andrew Alston >> wrote: >> >>> Wafa, >>> >>> So ? let me say this. I see a document here ? which lays out >>> the policies ? and provides a perspective of problems, it also >>> lists the pros and cons. Yes, Lazarus may have used the >>> foundation to lobby for its position, but ? one of the things >>> that I have long accepted in my life is ? if you believe in >>> something ? you have to lobby for it ? and to be frank ? the >>> summary that I see in this document ? is something that by and >>> large ? should have been done long before they got around to it. >>> >>> >>> If I, as an individual, feel strongly about something, I am >>> entirely free to go and advocate for my position. I am also >>> entirely free to sponsor people to come to a public meeting ? >>> and I am entirely free to choose those people as I so wish, if I >>> choose the people who agree with me, well, that?s life ? but >>> it certainly aint against the rules, it is the political nature of >>> internet policy development. Do you think that similar does not >>> happen elsewhere? People lobby for the positions that they care >>> about. It happens in politics, it happens in life, and yet now we >>> want to cry when someone else does the same thing. >>> >>> Let me also say ? it?s not like this hasn?t been happening >>> before ? and I want to quote from the OIF website: _IOF >>> ORGANISES POLITICAL ACTIVITIES AND ACTIONS OF MULTILATERAL >>> COOPERATION THAT BENEFIT FRENCH-SPEAKING POPULATIONS.___ >>> >>> Yet ? this is an organization that for years has spent money >>> filling the room with people ? and that statement does not say >>> ? is of benefit to Africa ? it does not say is of benefit to >>> the African continent ? it does not say is to the benefit of the >>> continent ? it singles out a single demographic on the continent >>> and says ? we do what we do for their benefit. Now, let me be >>> very clear, if they wish to do that ? I?m actually ok with it >>> ? though I admit I have waivered on this stance ? however, we >>> cannot say ? because it?s a government political organization >>> ? it?s ok ? but when a member chooses to have a foundation >>> ? and sponsor people to the meetings ? and then lobby for the >>> positions that member is passionate about ? suddenly its wrong. >>> That is called hypocrisy. >>> >>> In Point Noire, I watched people walk to the microphone ? with >>> slips of paper and read a comment on a policy ? and then go and >>> sit down ? and the same happened in Botswana. Except, what I >>> found was, when queried on the position that was taken at the >>> microphone, the individual reading what they had off the paper, >>> had patently obviously never read the policy and didn?t >>> understand the position they were taking themselves. So who was >>> behind that? And all of that ? is on video for the world to see >>> ? but ? it was ok then ? suddenly it changes now because we >>> don?t like the individual doing it? >>> >>> Sorry ? this isn?t the way it works ? and let me be clear >>> ? Lu Heng is not a friend of mine, and in fact in Mauritius I >>> had some pretty strong things to say to him to his face, in front >>> of others who will testify to what I said to him ? however ? I >>> respect his rights as a member to participate in what is >>> essentially a democratic process, that means ? I respect his >>> right to lobby for his views, I respect his right to put boots on >>> the ground, and I respect his right to have his say. In the same >>> way ? I respect the right of any member to do that ? and I >>> respect the right of the members to then rebut what is said if >>> they do not agree with it. It is through this lobbying position >>> and through the back and forth that accompanies it, that great >>> policy is born ? it is not through acquiescence, nor is it >>> through the silencing of the rights of others. >>> >>> My view ? if anyone wants to come into the room and have their >>> say ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people want to lobby >>> their positions ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people >>> want to spend money running tv adverts about their positions for >>> all I care ? so be it ? that is the nature of the democratic >>> position. If people want to bus a thousand people who share their >>> views ? again ? so be it ? that is the democratic process. >>> However, it is the community who then need to rebut ? but ? >>> the rebuttal should be on the policy itself. What I see here >>> however, is a rebuttal of policy and a lobbying position taken on >>> the *CONTENT* of the policy ? unlike what I have seen time and >>> again in the meetings where the lobbying position has NOTHING to >>> do with the content or the policy. >>> >>> So rather than malign Lazarus for their actions here ? quite >>> frankly, reading this document, and as much as as I have said, Lu >>> and I have some serious differences, I applaud Lazarus for the >>> comprehensive work ? and I applaud them for taking a stance that >>> was based on the policy and I embrace their right to lobby for >>> their position in any way shape or form. That is not to say I >>> agree with the positions taken in this document ? I will reserve >>> my policy comments for the policies and based on my own >>> interpretation of such ? but ? I embrace the fact that at >>> least, it was done based on what was written, and not on personal >>> relationships, personal attacks, demographics, or anything else. >>> >>> So ? to Lazarus ? thank you for a job well done in the fact >>> that you lobbied your position based on the policies ? and left >>> the other garbage behind, which is what we so often see. >>> >>> Finally ? again ? I respect the right to do what they did ? >>> and >>> >>> _THAT IS DEMOCRATIC_ >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Andrew >>> >>> FROM: wafa DAHMANI >>> SENT: Tuesday, 2 July 2019 12:30 >>> TO: community-discuss at afrinic.net >>> CC: rpd at afrinic.net >>> SUBJECT: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus >>> foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in >>> Kampala, were given a confidential Education package on AFRINIC >>> Number Resources Policy proposals detailed in the following link: >>> >>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg >>> >>> >>> The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation >>> views of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG >>> participants interventions on the proposals. >>> >>> The education package so proposed intends to condition these >>> participants views on the proposals and their contributions at >>> the PPM and after.... >>> >>> I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual >>> willing to participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to >>> know who is behind each source email address... only opinions >>> expressed in the context of the PDP matter. The substance of >>> contribution really matter. Diversity of views are encouraged. >>> Lack of disagreement is more important than of agreement. Also >>> PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence. >>> >>> RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear on these aspects of the rough >>> consensus process. >>> >>> Section 6 >>> >>> One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough >>> consensus. >>> >>> Section 7 >>> >>> Five people for and one hundred people against might still be >>> rough consensus >>> >>> My African fellows, >>> >>> Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process >>> is legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting was >>> useful to you and allow you to identify the issues, understand >>> what is going on and what Africa needs... I hope you?ve made >>> your minds and now able to speak on your personal capacity.. >>> >>> The real education package is as below: >>> >>> ===== >>> >>> Proposal to establish AFRINIC >>> >>> >> > http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997 >>> >>> >>> IANA report on AFRINIC (Accreditation) >>> >>> https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf >>> >>> AFRINIC constitution >>> >>> https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws >>> >>> Registration Service Agreement >>> >>> https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa >>> >>> AFRINIC policy manual >>> >>> https://afrinic.net/policy/manual >>> >>> AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM >>> >>> https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre >>> >>> AFRINIC PDP >>> >>> https://www.afrinic.net/policy >>> >>> Rough Consensus >>> >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282 >>> >>> AFRINIC current policy proposals >>> >>> https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals >>> >>> RiRs PDPs >>> >>> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/ >>> >>> RIR comparative policy overview >>> >>> >> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/ >>> >>> >>> ============== >>> >>> Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way. >>> >>> Come build African Internet by Africans. >>> >>> As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation, >>> afrinic member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of >>> IPv4 is long established and discussed many times on this list. I >>> hope the fellows would find these discussions in the archives. >>> >>> I call the attention of the board on the repetitive attempts of >>> this resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid >>> intentions... the provisions of the bylaws and RSA must >>> carefully be applied to recall members to acceptable code of >>> conduct. >>> >>> The African Internet community as well as the global Internet >>> community must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy >>> development process and operations. >>> >>> -Wafa _______________________________________________ >>> Community-Discuss mailing list >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> >> -- >> >> VIVIEN >> LARUS CLOUD SERVICE LIMITED >> p:+852 29888918 >> f:+852 29888368 >> e:a.v.p at laruscloudservice.net >> w:laruscloudservice.net/ [1] >> a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR > >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > Links: > ------ > [1] http://laruscloudservice.net/ > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss b From taiwo.oyewande88 at gmail.com Wed Jul 3 19:17:38 2019 From: taiwo.oyewande88 at gmail.com (Taiwo Oyewande) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 20:17:38 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: <20ca2157fc00c35bb07dec20cc4408fd@isoc.or.ke> References: <1478031339.474342.1562059823971.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> <1A0EEFFC-D29F-4D63-9906-D3743D93411D@gmail.com> <20ca2157fc00c35bb07dec20cc4408fd@isoc.or.ke> Message-ID: <906C337A-852D-4857-B7F5-1CD39205112F@gmail.com> @ Sent from my iPhone > On 3 Jul 2019, at 19:35, hkariuki at isoc.or.ke wrote: > > Taiwo, > I am a first time Afrinic 30 fellow and attended the last AIS meeting in Kampala and therefore by extension an Afrinic Alumni. I can confirm that we were given summary and links to the policies before the meeting. We also had a webinar before the meeting and materials emailed to us and onsite discussions and after we join the mailing lists to continue learning and contributing to policy discussions. > Regards, > Hellen > > >> On 2019-07-02 16:25, Taiwo Oyewande wrote: >> Hi all, >> Taking a good look at this resource, it is obviously a summary of the >> policies to be discussed. >> Larus fellowship tends towards promoting the youth - students >> included-. I think this summary will be a good starting point for new >> members who are fresh in the policy development process. >> On this note, i will like to encourage Afrinic to emulate the >> foundation and come up with an official summary like this before every >> meeting to enable new and interested members get up to speed quickly. >> Cheers. >> Taiwo O >>> On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 at 20:36, Andrew Alston >>> wrote: >>>> Wafa, >>>> So ? let me say this. I see a document here ? which lays out >>>> the policies ? and provides a perspective of problems, it also >>>> lists the pros and cons. Yes, Lazarus may have used the >>>> foundation to lobby for its position, but ? one of the things >>>> that I have long accepted in my life is ? if you believe in >>>> something ? you have to lobby for it ? and to be frank ? the >>>> summary that I see in this document ? is something that by and >>>> large ? should have been done long before they got around to it. >>>> If I, as an individual, feel strongly about something, I am >>>> entirely free to go and advocate for my position. I am also >>>> entirely free to sponsor people to come to a public meeting ? >>>> and I am entirely free to choose those people as I so wish, if I >>>> choose the people who agree with me, well, that?s life ? but >>>> it certainly aint against the rules, it is the political nature of >>>> internet policy development. Do you think that similar does not >>>> happen elsewhere? People lobby for the positions that they care >>>> about. It happens in politics, it happens in life, and yet now we >>>> want to cry when someone else does the same thing. >>>> Let me also say ? it?s not like this hasn?t been happening >>>> before ? and I want to quote from the OIF website: _IOF >>>> ORGANISES POLITICAL ACTIVITIES AND ACTIONS OF MULTILATERAL >>>> COOPERATION THAT BENEFIT FRENCH-SPEAKING POPULATIONS.___ >>>> Yet ? this is an organization that for years has spent money >>>> filling the room with people ? and that statement does not say >>>> ? is of benefit to Africa ? it does not say is of benefit to >>>> the African continent ? it does not say is to the benefit of the >>>> continent ? it singles out a single demographic on the continent >>>> and says ? we do what we do for their benefit. Now, let me be >>>> very clear, if they wish to do that ? I?m actually ok with it >>>> ? though I admit I have waivered on this stance ? however, we >>>> cannot say ? because it?s a government political organization >>>> ? it?s ok ? but when a member chooses to have a foundation >>>> ? and sponsor people to the meetings ? and then lobby for the >>>> positions that member is passionate about ? suddenly its wrong. >>>> That is called hypocrisy. >>>> In Point Noire, I watched people walk to the microphone ? with >>>> slips of paper and read a comment on a policy ? and then go and >>>> sit down ? and the same happened in Botswana. Except, what I >>>> found was, when queried on the position that was taken at the >>>> microphone, the individual reading what they had off the paper, >>>> had patently obviously never read the policy and didn?t >>>> understand the position they were taking themselves. So who was >>>> behind that? And all of that ? is on video for the world to see >>>> ? but ? it was ok then ? suddenly it changes now because we >>>> don?t like the individual doing it? >>>> Sorry ? this isn?t the way it works ? and let me be clear >>>> ? Lu Heng is not a friend of mine, and in fact in Mauritius I >>>> had some pretty strong things to say to him to his face, in front >>>> of others who will testify to what I said to him ? however ? I >>>> respect his rights as a member to participate in what is >>>> essentially a democratic process, that means ? I respect his >>>> right to lobby for his views, I respect his right to put boots on >>>> the ground, and I respect his right to have his say. In the same >>>> way ? I respect the right of any member to do that ? and I >>>> respect the right of the members to then rebut what is said if >>>> they do not agree with it. It is through this lobbying position >>>> and through the back and forth that accompanies it, that great >>>> policy is born ? it is not through acquiescence, nor is it >>>> through the silencing of the rights of others. >>>> My view ? if anyone wants to come into the room and have their >>>> say ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people want to lobby >>>> their positions ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people >>>> want to spend money running tv adverts about their positions for >>>> all I care ? so be it ? that is the nature of the democratic >>>> position. If people want to bus a thousand people who share their >>>> views ? again ? so be it ? that is the democratic process. >>>> However, it is the community who then need to rebut ? but ? >>>> the rebuttal should be on the policy itself. What I see here >>>> however, is a rebuttal of policy and a lobbying position taken on >>>> the *CONTENT* of the policy ? unlike what I have seen time and >>>> again in the meetings where the lobbying position has NOTHING to >>>> do with the content or the policy. >>>> So rather than malign Lazarus for their actions here ? quite >>>> frankly, reading this document, and as much as as I have said, Lu >>>> and I have some serious differences, I applaud Lazarus for the >>>> comprehensive work ? and I applaud them for taking a stance that >>>> was based on the policy and I embrace their right to lobby for >>>> their position in any way shape or form. That is not to say I >>>> agree with the positions taken in this document ? I will reserve >>>> my policy comments for the policies and based on my own >>>> interpretation of such ? but ? I embrace the fact that at >>>> least, it was done based on what was written, and not on personal >>>> relationships, personal attacks, demographics, or anything else. >>>> So ? to Lazarus ? thank you for a job well done in the fact >>>> that you lobbied your position based on the policies ? and left >>>> the other garbage behind, which is what we so often see. >>>> Finally ? again ? I respect the right to do what they did ? >>>> and >>>> _THAT IS DEMOCRATIC_ >>>> Thanks >>>> Andrew >>>> FROM: wafa DAHMANI >>>> SENT: Tuesday, 2 July 2019 12:30 >>>> TO: community-discuss at afrinic.net >>>> CC: rpd at afrinic.net >>>> SUBJECT: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship >>>> Hi >>>> It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus >>>> foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in >>>> Kampala, were given a confidential Education package on AFRINIC >>>> Number Resources Policy proposals detailed in the following link: >>>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg >>>> The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation >>>> views of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG >>>> participants interventions on the proposals. >>>> The education package so proposed intends to condition these >>>> participants views on the proposals and their contributions at >>>> the PPM and after.... >>>> I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual >>>> willing to participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to >>>> know who is behind each source email address... only opinions >>>> expressed in the context of the PDP matter. The substance of >>>> contribution really matter. Diversity of views are encouraged. >>>> Lack of disagreement is more important than of agreement. Also >>>> PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence. >>>> RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear on these aspects of the rough >>>> consensus process. >>>> Section 6 >>>> One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough >>>> consensus. >>>> Section 7 >>>> Five people for and one hundred people against might still be >>>> rough consensus >>>> My African fellows, >>>> Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process >>>> is legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting was >>>> useful to you and allow you to identify the issues, understand >>>> what is going on and what Africa needs... I hope you?ve made >>>> your minds and now able to speak on your personal capacity.. >>>> The real education package is as below: >>>> ===== >>>> Proposal to establish AFRINIC >> http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997 >>>> IANA report on AFRINIC (Accreditation) >>>> https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf >>>> AFRINIC constitution >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws >>>> Registration Service Agreement >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa >>>> AFRINIC policy manual >>>> https://afrinic.net/policy/manual >>>> AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre >>>> AFRINIC PDP >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/policy >>>> Rough Consensus >>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282 >>>> AFRINIC current policy proposals >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals >>>> RiRs PDPs >>>> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/ >>>> RIR comparative policy overview >>> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/ >>>> ============== >>>> Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way. >>>> Come build African Internet by Africans. >>>> As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation, >>>> afrinic member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of >>>> IPv4 is long established and discussed many times on this list. I >>>> hope the fellows would find these discussions in the archives. >>>> I call the attention of the board on the repetitive attempts of >>>> this resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid >>>> intentions... the provisions of the bylaws and RSA must >>>> carefully be applied to recall members to acceptable code of >>>> conduct. >>>> The African Internet community as well as the global Internet >>>> community must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy >>>> development process and operations. >>>> -Wafa _______________________________________________ >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >>> -- >>> VIVIEN >>> LARUS CLOUD SERVICE LIMITED >>> p:+852 29888918 >>> f:+852 29888368 >>> e:a.v.p at laruscloudservice.net >>> w:laruscloudservice.net/ [1] >>> a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Community-Discuss mailing list >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> Links: >> ------ >> [1] http://laruscloudservice.net/ >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > > > > > b From taiwo.oyewande88 at gmail.com Wed Jul 3 19:21:54 2019 From: taiwo.oyewande88 at gmail.com (Taiwo Oyewande) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 20:21:54 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: <20ca2157fc00c35bb07dec20cc4408fd@isoc.or.ke> References: <1478031339.474342.1562059823971.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> <1A0EEFFC-D29F-4D63-9906-D3743D93411D@gmail.com> <20ca2157fc00c35bb07dec20cc4408fd@isoc.or.ke> Message-ID: @hellen. Thank you for you insight. Please can you attach a copy of the summary given to you to help new intakes get up to speed. - this is what I encourage and hope AFRINIC can give to new comers and hopefully distribute in the new comers session- . @ caleb .......... Sent from my iPhone > On 3 Jul 2019, at 19:35, hkariuki at isoc.or.ke wrote: > > Taiwo, > I am a first time Afrinic 30 fellow and attended the last AIS meeting in Kampala and therefore by extension an Afrinic Alumni. I can confirm that we were given summary and links to the policies before the meeting. We also had a webinar before the meeting and materials emailed to us and onsite discussions and after we join the mailing lists to continue learning and contributing to policy discussions. > Regards, > Hellen > > >> On 2019-07-02 16:25, Taiwo Oyewande wrote: >> Hi all, >> Taking a good look at this resource, it is obviously a summary of the >> policies to be discussed. >> Larus fellowship tends towards promoting the youth - students >> included-. I think this summary will be a good starting point for new >> members who are fresh in the policy development process. >> On this note, i will like to encourage Afrinic to emulate the >> foundation and come up with an official summary like this before every >> meeting to enable new and interested members get up to speed quickly. >> Cheers. >> Taiwo O >>> On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 at 20:36, Andrew Alston >>> wrote: >>>> Wafa, >>>> So ? let me say this. I see a document here ? which lays out >>>> the policies ? and provides a perspective of problems, it also >>>> lists the pros and cons. Yes, Lazarus may have used the >>>> foundation to lobby for its position, but ? one of the things >>>> that I have long accepted in my life is ? if you believe in >>>> something ? you have to lobby for it ? and to be frank ? the >>>> summary that I see in this document ? is something that by and >>>> large ? should have been done long before they got around to it. >>>> If I, as an individual, feel strongly about something, I am >>>> entirely free to go and advocate for my position. I am also >>>> entirely free to sponsor people to come to a public meeting ? >>>> and I am entirely free to choose those people as I so wish, if I >>>> choose the people who agree with me, well, that?s life ? but >>>> it certainly aint against the rules, it is the political nature of >>>> internet policy development. Do you think that similar does not >>>> happen elsewhere? People lobby for the positions that they care >>>> about. It happens in politics, it happens in life, and yet now we >>>> want to cry when someone else does the same thing. >>>> Let me also say ? it?s not like this hasn?t been happening >>>> before ? and I want to quote from the OIF website: _IOF >>>> ORGANISES POLITICAL ACTIVITIES AND ACTIONS OF MULTILATERAL >>>> COOPERATION THAT BENEFIT FRENCH-SPEAKING POPULATIONS.___ >>>> Yet ? this is an organization that for years has spent money >>>> filling the room with people ? and that statement does not say >>>> ? is of benefit to Africa ? it does not say is of benefit to >>>> the African continent ? it does not say is to the benefit of the >>>> continent ? it singles out a single demographic on the continent >>>> and says ? we do what we do for their benefit. Now, let me be >>>> very clear, if they wish to do that ? I?m actually ok with it >>>> ? though I admit I have waivered on this stance ? however, we >>>> cannot say ? because it?s a government political organization >>>> ? it?s ok ? but when a member chooses to have a foundation >>>> ? and sponsor people to the meetings ? and then lobby for the >>>> positions that member is passionate about ? suddenly its wrong. >>>> That is called hypocrisy. >>>> In Point Noire, I watched people walk to the microphone ? with >>>> slips of paper and read a comment on a policy ? and then go and >>>> sit down ? and the same happened in Botswana. Except, what I >>>> found was, when queried on the position that was taken at the >>>> microphone, the individual reading what they had off the paper, >>>> had patently obviously never read the policy and didn?t >>>> understand the position they were taking themselves. So who was >>>> behind that? And all of that ? is on video for the world to see >>>> ? but ? it was ok then ? suddenly it changes now because we >>>> don?t like the individual doing it? >>>> Sorry ? this isn?t the way it works ? and let me be clear >>>> ? Lu Heng is not a friend of mine, and in fact in Mauritius I >>>> had some pretty strong things to say to him to his face, in front >>>> of others who will testify to what I said to him ? however ? I >>>> respect his rights as a member to participate in what is >>>> essentially a democratic process, that means ? I respect his >>>> right to lobby for his views, I respect his right to put boots on >>>> the ground, and I respect his right to have his say. In the same >>>> way ? I respect the right of any member to do that ? and I >>>> respect the right of the members to then rebut what is said if >>>> they do not agree with it. It is through this lobbying position >>>> and through the back and forth that accompanies it, that great >>>> policy is born ? it is not through acquiescence, nor is it >>>> through the silencing of the rights of others. >>>> My view ? if anyone wants to come into the room and have their >>>> say ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people want to lobby >>>> their positions ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people >>>> want to spend money running tv adverts about their positions for >>>> all I care ? so be it ? that is the nature of the democratic >>>> position. If people want to bus a thousand people who share their >>>> views ? again ? so be it ? that is the democratic process. >>>> However, it is the community who then need to rebut ? but ? >>>> the rebuttal should be on the policy itself. What I see here >>>> however, is a rebuttal of policy and a lobbying position taken on >>>> the *CONTENT* of the policy ? unlike what I have seen time and >>>> again in the meetings where the lobbying position has NOTHING to >>>> do with the content or the policy. >>>> So rather than malign Lazarus for their actions here ? quite >>>> frankly, reading this document, and as much as as I have said, Lu >>>> and I have some serious differences, I applaud Lazarus for the >>>> comprehensive work ? and I applaud them for taking a stance that >>>> was based on the policy and I embrace their right to lobby for >>>> their position in any way shape or form. That is not to say I >>>> agree with the positions taken in this document ? I will reserve >>>> my policy comments for the policies and based on my own >>>> interpretation of such ? but ? I embrace the fact that at >>>> least, it was done based on what was written, and not on personal >>>> relationships, personal attacks, demographics, or anything else. >>>> So ? to Lazarus ? thank you for a job well done in the fact >>>> that you lobbied your position based on the policies ? and left >>>> the other garbage behind, which is what we so often see. >>>> Finally ? again ? I respect the right to do what they did ? >>>> and >>>> _THAT IS DEMOCRATIC_ >>>> Thanks >>>> Andrew >>>> FROM: wafa DAHMANI >>>> SENT: Tuesday, 2 July 2019 12:30 >>>> TO: community-discuss at afrinic.net >>>> CC: rpd at afrinic.net >>>> SUBJECT: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship >>>> Hi >>>> It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus >>>> foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in >>>> Kampala, were given a confidential Education package on AFRINIC >>>> Number Resources Policy proposals detailed in the following link: >>>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg >>>> The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation >>>> views of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG >>>> participants interventions on the proposals. >>>> The education package so proposed intends to condition these >>>> participants views on the proposals and their contributions at >>>> the PPM and after.... >>>> I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual >>>> willing to participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to >>>> know who is behind each source email address... only opinions >>>> expressed in the context of the PDP matter. The substance of >>>> contribution really matter. Diversity of views are encouraged. >>>> Lack of disagreement is more important than of agreement. Also >>>> PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence. >>>> RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear on these aspects of the rough >>>> consensus process. >>>> Section 6 >>>> One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough >>>> consensus. >>>> Section 7 >>>> Five people for and one hundred people against might still be >>>> rough consensus >>>> My African fellows, >>>> Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process >>>> is legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting was >>>> useful to you and allow you to identify the issues, understand >>>> what is going on and what Africa needs... I hope you?ve made >>>> your minds and now able to speak on your personal capacity.. >>>> The real education package is as below: >>>> ===== >>>> Proposal to establish AFRINIC >> http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997 >>>> IANA report on AFRINIC (Accreditation) >>>> https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf >>>> AFRINIC constitution >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws >>>> Registration Service Agreement >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa >>>> AFRINIC policy manual >>>> https://afrinic.net/policy/manual >>>> AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre >>>> AFRINIC PDP >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/policy >>>> Rough Consensus >>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282 >>>> AFRINIC current policy proposals >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals >>>> RiRs PDPs >>>> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/ >>>> RIR comparative policy overview >>> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/ >>>> ============== >>>> Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way. >>>> Come build African Internet by Africans. >>>> As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation, >>>> afrinic member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of >>>> IPv4 is long established and discussed many times on this list. I >>>> hope the fellows would find these discussions in the archives. >>>> I call the attention of the board on the repetitive attempts of >>>> this resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid >>>> intentions... the provisions of the bylaws and RSA must >>>> carefully be applied to recall members to acceptable code of >>>> conduct. >>>> The African Internet community as well as the global Internet >>>> community must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy >>>> development process and operations. >>>> -Wafa _______________________________________________ >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >>> -- >>> VIVIEN >>> LARUS CLOUD SERVICE LIMITED >>> p:+852 29888918 >>> f:+852 29888368 >>> e:a.v.p at laruscloudservice.net >>> w:laruscloudservice.net/ [1] >>> a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Community-Discuss mailing list >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> Links: >> ------ >> [1] http://laruscloudservice.net/ >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > > > > > b From taiwo.oyewande88 at gmail.com Wed Jul 3 20:05:18 2019 From: taiwo.oyewande88 at gmail.com (Taiwo Oyewande) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 21:05:18 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: <20ca2157fc00c35bb07dec20cc4408fd@isoc.or.ke> References: <1478031339.474342.1562059823971.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> <1A0EEFFC-D29F-4D63-9906-D3743D93411D@gmail.com> <20ca2157fc00c35bb07dec20cc4408fd@isoc.or.ke> Message-ID: <1BC9547D-56E9-4DF5-A0CD-025B4F0DD494@gmail.com> @ Sent from my iPhone > On 3 Jul 2019, at 19:35, hkariuki at isoc.or.ke wrote: > > Taiwo, > I am a first time Afrinic 30 fellow and attended the last AIS meeting in Kampala and therefore by extension an Afrinic Alumni. I can confirm that we were given summary and links to the policies before the meeting. We also had a webinar before the meeting and materials emailed to us and onsite discussions and after we join the mailing lists to continue learning and contributing to policy discussions. > Regards, > Hellen > > >> On 2019-07-02 16:25, Taiwo Oyewande wrote: >> Hi all, >> Taking a good look at this resource, it is obviously a summary of the >> policies to be discussed. >> Larus fellowship tends towards promoting the youth - students >> included-. I think this summary will be a good starting point for new >> members who are fresh in the policy development process. >> On this note, i will like to encourage Afrinic to emulate the >> foundation and come up with an official summary like this before every >> meeting to enable new and interested members get up to speed quickly. >> Cheers. >> Taiwo O >>> On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 at 20:36, Andrew Alston >>> wrote: >>>> Wafa, >>>> So ? let me say this. I see a document here ? which lays out >>>> the policies ? and provides a perspective of problems, it also >>>> lists the pros and cons. Yes, Lazarus may have used the >>>> foundation to lobby for its position, but ? one of the things >>>> that I have long accepted in my life is ? if you believe in >>>> something ? you have to lobby for it ? and to be frank ? the >>>> summary that I see in this document ? is something that by and >>>> large ? should have been done long before they got around to it. >>>> If I, as an individual, feel strongly about something, I am >>>> entirely free to go and advocate for my position. I am also >>>> entirely free to sponsor people to come to a public meeting ? >>>> and I am entirely free to choose those people as I so wish, if I >>>> choose the people who agree with me, well, that?s life ? but >>>> it certainly aint against the rules, it is the political nature of >>>> internet policy development. Do you think that similar does not >>>> happen elsewhere? People lobby for the positions that they care >>>> about. It happens in politics, it happens in life, and yet now we >>>> want to cry when someone else does the same thing. >>>> Let me also say ? it?s not like this hasn?t been happening >>>> before ? and I want to quote from the OIF website: _IOF >>>> ORGANISES POLITICAL ACTIVITIES AND ACTIONS OF MULTILATERAL >>>> COOPERATION THAT BENEFIT FRENCH-SPEAKING POPULATIONS.___ >>>> Yet ? this is an organization that for years has spent money >>>> filling the room with people ? and that statement does not say >>>> ? is of benefit to Africa ? it does not say is of benefit to >>>> the African continent ? it does not say is to the benefit of the >>>> continent ? it singles out a single demographic on the continent >>>> and says ? we do what we do for their benefit. Now, let me be >>>> very clear, if they wish to do that ? I?m actually ok with it >>>> ? though I admit I have waivered on this stance ? however, we >>>> cannot say ? because it?s a government political organization >>>> ? it?s ok ? but when a member chooses to have a foundation >>>> ? and sponsor people to the meetings ? and then lobby for the >>>> positions that member is passionate about ? suddenly its wrong. >>>> That is called hypocrisy. >>>> In Point Noire, I watched people walk to the microphone ? with >>>> slips of paper and read a comment on a policy ? and then go and >>>> sit down ? and the same happened in Botswana. Except, what I >>>> found was, when queried on the position that was taken at the >>>> microphone, the individual reading what they had off the paper, >>>> had patently obviously never read the policy and didn?t >>>> understand the position they were taking themselves. So who was >>>> behind that? And all of that ? is on video for the world to see >>>> ? but ? it was ok then ? suddenly it changes now because we >>>> don?t like the individual doing it? >>>> Sorry ? this isn?t the way it works ? and let me be clear >>>> ? Lu Heng is not a friend of mine, and in fact in Mauritius I >>>> had some pretty strong things to say to him to his face, in front >>>> of others who will testify to what I said to him ? however ? I >>>> respect his rights as a member to participate in what is >>>> essentially a democratic process, that means ? I respect his >>>> right to lobby for his views, I respect his right to put boots on >>>> the ground, and I respect his right to have his say. In the same >>>> way ? I respect the right of any member to do that ? and I >>>> respect the right of the members to then rebut what is said if >>>> they do not agree with it. It is through this lobbying position >>>> and through the back and forth that accompanies it, that great >>>> policy is born ? it is not through acquiescence, nor is it >>>> through the silencing of the rights of others. >>>> My view ? if anyone wants to come into the room and have their >>>> say ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people want to lobby >>>> their positions ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people >>>> want to spend money running tv adverts about their positions for >>>> all I care ? so be it ? that is the nature of the democratic >>>> position. If people want to bus a thousand people who share their >>>> views ? again ? so be it ? that is the democratic process. >>>> However, it is the community who then need to rebut ? but ? >>>> the rebuttal should be on the policy itself. What I see here >>>> however, is a rebuttal of policy and a lobbying position taken on >>>> the *CONTENT* of the policy ? unlike what I have seen time and >>>> again in the meetings where the lobbying position has NOTHING to >>>> do with the content or the policy. >>>> So rather than malign Lazarus for their actions here ? quite >>>> frankly, reading this document, and as much as as I have said, Lu >>>> and I have some serious differences, I applaud Lazarus for the >>>> comprehensive work ? and I applaud them for taking a stance that >>>> was based on the policy and I embrace their right to lobby for >>>> their position in any way shape or form. That is not to say I >>>> agree with the positions taken in this document ? I will reserve >>>> my policy comments for the policies and based on my own >>>> interpretation of such ? but ? I embrace the fact that at >>>> least, it was done based on what was written, and not on personal >>>> relationships, personal attacks, demographics, or anything else. >>>> So ? to Lazarus ? thank you for a job well done in the fact >>>> that you lobbied your position based on the policies ? and left >>>> the other garbage behind, which is what we so often see. >>>> Finally ? again ? I respect the right to do what they did ? >>>> and >>>> _THAT IS DEMOCRATIC_ >>>> Thanks >>>> Andrew >>>> FROM: wafa DAHMANI >>>> SENT: Tuesday, 2 July 2019 12:30 >>>> TO: community-discuss at afrinic.net >>>> CC: rpd at afrinic.net >>>> SUBJECT: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship >>>> Hi >>>> It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus >>>> foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in >>>> Kampala, were given a confidential Education package on AFRINIC >>>> Number Resources Policy proposals detailed in the following link: >>>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg >>>> The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation >>>> views of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG >>>> participants interventions on the proposals. >>>> The education package so proposed intends to condition these >>>> participants views on the proposals and their contributions at >>>> the PPM and after.... >>>> I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual >>>> willing to participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to >>>> know who is behind each source email address... only opinions >>>> expressed in the context of the PDP matter. The substance of >>>> contribution really matter. Diversity of views are encouraged. >>>> Lack of disagreement is more important than of agreement. Also >>>> PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence. >>>> RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear on these aspects of the rough >>>> consensus process. >>>> Section 6 >>>> One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough >>>> consensus. >>>> Section 7 >>>> Five people for and one hundred people against might still be >>>> rough consensus >>>> My African fellows, >>>> Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process >>>> is legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting was >>>> useful to you and allow you to identify the issues, understand >>>> what is going on and what Africa needs... I hope you?ve made >>>> your minds and now able to speak on your personal capacity.. >>>> The real education package is as below: >>>> ===== >>>> Proposal to establish AFRINIC >> http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997 >>>> IANA report on AFRINIC (Accreditation) >>>> https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf >>>> AFRINIC constitution >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws >>>> Registration Service Agreement >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa >>>> AFRINIC policy manual >>>> https://afrinic.net/policy/manual >>>> AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre >>>> AFRINIC PDP >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/policy >>>> Rough Consensus >>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282 >>>> AFRINIC current policy proposals >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals >>>> RiRs PDPs >>>> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/ >>>> RIR comparative policy overview >>> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/ >>>> ============== >>>> Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way. >>>> Come build African Internet by Africans. >>>> As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation, >>>> afrinic member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of >>>> IPv4 is long established and discussed many times on this list. I >>>> hope the fellows would find these discussions in the archives. >>>> I call the attention of the board on the repetitive attempts of >>>> this resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid >>>> intentions... the provisions of the bylaws and RSA must >>>> carefully be applied to recall members to acceptable code of >>>> conduct. >>>> The African Internet community as well as the global Internet >>>> community must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy >>>> development process and operations. >>>> -Wafa _______________________________________________ >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >>> -- >>> VIVIEN >>> LARUS CLOUD SERVICE LIMITED >>> p:+852 29888918 >>> f:+852 29888368 >>> e:a.v.p at laruscloudservice.net >>> w:laruscloudservice.net/ [1] >>> a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Community-Discuss mailing list >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> Links: >> ------ >> [1] http://laruscloudservice.net/ >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > > > > > b From ezekielj20 at gmail.com Wed Jul 3 20:21:29 2019 From: ezekielj20 at gmail.com (94cm4n .) Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 21:21:29 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Sorry I meant to post to the community-discuss. Jehovahseun On Wed, 3 Jul 2019, 9:18 PM 94cm4n ., wrote: > > Dear Caleb, > I think Taiwo decided not to respond to you cos just like your questions > to all the PDP chair candidates in Kampala (in which none of them responded > too),it does not worth a reply. However i think I can dignify you with a > response so that you don't think too much as to why people don't respond to > you and start thinking too much of the fact that it seams you live in > another planet. > First of all, you don't work for Afrinic and not the spokespersons for > AFRINIC. > Secondly, Taiwo didn't talk about the fellows and you went off point. > Third, you did not include that fact that some of the mentors appointed > by AFRInIC are authors of policies and they used the fellows to push their > polices and agenda. Then you never included the fact that Afrinic fellows > via the whataps group were told to vote for a particular Candidate as the > PDP chair. > @ Heleen and other fellows? is this not True. > AFRINIC fellows were used by some to achieve thier aim. There is a > serious need to review how fellows emerge and the criteria used in > appointing mentors( A story for another day). Some candidates were provided > access to the candidates for the PDP chair under guise of being an ex > fellow. Anyway don't let me digress too much the discussion here is about > WAFA's conduct and we leave other issues for another day. > > Regards > Jehovahseun > > On Wed, 3 Jul 2019, 8:56 PM , wrote: > >> Send RPD mailing list submissions to >> rpd at afrinic.net >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> rpd-request at afrinic.net >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> rpd-owner at afrinic.net >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of RPD digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship >> (Taiwo Oyewande) >> 2. Re: RPD Digest, Vol 154, Issue 40 (afia faith) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 20:21:54 +0100 >> From: Taiwo Oyewande >> To: hkariuki at isoc.or.ke >> Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net, rpd at afrinic.net >> Subject: Re: [rpd] [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >> >> @hellen. >> >> Thank you for you insight. Please can you attach a copy of the summary >> given to you to help new intakes get up to speed. - this is what I >> encourage and hope AFRINIC can give to new comers and hopefully distribute >> in the new comers session- . >> >> @ caleb >> .......... >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> > On 3 Jul 2019, at 19:35, hkariuki at isoc.or.ke wrote: >> > >> > Taiwo, >> > I am a first time Afrinic 30 fellow and attended the last AIS meeting >> in Kampala and therefore by extension an Afrinic Alumni. I can confirm that >> we were given summary and links to the policies before the meeting. We also >> had a webinar before the meeting and materials emailed to us and onsite >> discussions and after we join the mailing lists to continue learning and >> contributing to policy discussions. >> > Regards, >> > Hellen >> > >> > >> >> On 2019-07-02 16:25, Taiwo Oyewande wrote: >> >> Hi all, >> >> Taking a good look at this resource, it is obviously a summary of the >> >> policies to be discussed. >> >> Larus fellowship tends towards promoting the youth - students >> >> included-. I think this summary will be a good starting point for new >> >> members who are fresh in the policy development process. >> >> On this note, i will like to encourage Afrinic to emulate the >> >> foundation and come up with an official summary like this before every >> >> meeting to enable new and interested members get up to speed quickly. >> >> Cheers. >> >> Taiwo O >> >>> On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 at 20:36, Andrew Alston >> >>> wrote: >> >>>> Wafa, >> >>>> So ? let me say this. I see a document here ? which lays out >> >>>> the policies ? and provides a perspective of problems, it also >> >>>> lists the pros and cons. Yes, Lazarus may have used the >> >>>> foundation to lobby for its position, but ? one of the things >> >>>> that I have long accepted in my life is ? if you believe in >> >>>> something ? you have to lobby for it ? and to be frank ? the >> >>>> summary that I see in this document ? is something that by and >> >>>> large ? should have been done long before they got around to it. >> >>>> If I, as an individual, feel strongly about something, I am >> >>>> entirely free to go and advocate for my position. I am also >> >>>> entirely free to sponsor people to come to a public meeting ? >> >>>> and I am entirely free to choose those people as I so wish, if I >> >>>> choose the people who agree with me, well, that?s life ? but >> >>>> it certainly aint against the rules, it is the political nature of >> >>>> internet policy development. Do you think that similar does not >> >>>> happen elsewhere? People lobby for the positions that they care >> >>>> about. It happens in politics, it happens in life, and yet now we >> >>>> want to cry when someone else does the same thing. >> >>>> Let me also say ? it?s not like this hasn?t been happening >> >>>> before ? and I want to quote from the OIF website: _IOF >> >>>> ORGANISES POLITICAL ACTIVITIES AND ACTIONS OF MULTILATERAL >> >>>> COOPERATION THAT BENEFIT FRENCH-SPEAKING POPULATIONS.___ >> >>>> Yet ? this is an organization that for years has spent money >> >>>> filling the room with people ? and that statement does not say >> >>>> ? is of benefit to Africa ? it does not say is of benefit to >> >>>> the African continent ? it does not say is to the benefit of the >> >>>> continent ? it singles out a single demographic on the continent >> >>>> and says ? we do what we do for their benefit. Now, let me be >> >>>> very clear, if they wish to do that ? I?m actually ok with it >> >>>> ? though I admit I have waivered on this stance ? however, we >> >>>> cannot say ? because it?s a government political organization >> >>>> ? it?s ok ? but when a member chooses to have a foundation >> >>>> ? and sponsor people to the meetings ? and then lobby for the >> >>>> positions that member is passionate about ? suddenly its wrong. >> >>>> That is called hypocrisy. >> >>>> In Point Noire, I watched people walk to the microphone ? with >> >>>> slips of paper and read a comment on a policy ? and then go and >> >>>> sit down ? and the same happened in Botswana. Except, what I >> >>>> found was, when queried on the position that was taken at the >> >>>> microphone, the individual reading what they had off the paper, >> >>>> had patently obviously never read the policy and didn?t >> >>>> understand the position they were taking themselves. So who was >> >>>> behind that? And all of that ? is on video for the world to see >> >>>> ? but ? it was ok then ? suddenly it changes now because we >> >>>> don?t like the individual doing it? >> >>>> Sorry ? this isn?t the way it works ? and let me be clear >> >>>> ? Lu Heng is not a friend of mine, and in fact in Mauritius I >> >>>> had some pretty strong things to say to him to his face, in front >> >>>> of others who will testify to what I said to him ? however ? I >> >>>> respect his rights as a member to participate in what is >> >>>> essentially a democratic process, that means ? I respect his >> >>>> right to lobby for his views, I respect his right to put boots on >> >>>> the ground, and I respect his right to have his say. In the same >> >>>> way ? I respect the right of any member to do that ? and I >> >>>> respect the right of the members to then rebut what is said if >> >>>> they do not agree with it. It is through this lobbying position >> >>>> and through the back and forth that accompanies it, that great >> >>>> policy is born ? it is not through acquiescence, nor is it >> >>>> through the silencing of the rights of others. >> >>>> My view ? if anyone wants to come into the room and have their >> >>>> say ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people want to lobby >> >>>> their positions ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people >> >>>> want to spend money running tv adverts about their positions for >> >>>> all I care ? so be it ? that is the nature of the democratic >> >>>> position. If people want to bus a thousand people who share their >> >>>> views ? again ? so be it ? that is the democratic process. >> >>>> However, it is the community who then need to rebut ? but ? >> >>>> the rebuttal should be on the policy itself. What I see here >> >>>> however, is a rebuttal of policy and a lobbying position taken on >> >>>> the *CONTENT* of the policy ? unlike what I have seen time and >> >>>> again in the meetings where the lobbying position has NOTHING to >> >>>> do with the content or the policy. >> >>>> So rather than malign Lazarus for their actions here ? quite >> >>>> frankly, reading this document, and as much as as I have said, Lu >> >>>> and I have some serious differences, I applaud Lazarus for the >> >>>> comprehensive work ? and I applaud them for taking a stance that >> >>>> was based on the policy and I embrace their right to lobby for >> >>>> their position in any way shape or form. That is not to say I >> >>>> agree with the positions taken in this document ? I will reserve >> >>>> my policy comments for the policies and based on my own >> >>>> interpretation of such ? but ? I embrace the fact that at >> >>>> least, it was done based on what was written, and not on personal >> >>>> relationships, personal attacks, demographics, or anything else. >> >>>> So ? to Lazarus ? thank you for a job well done in the fact >> >>>> that you lobbied your position based on the policies ? and left >> >>>> the other garbage behind, which is what we so often see. >> >>>> Finally ? again ? I respect the right to do what they did ? >> >>>> and >> >>>> _THAT IS DEMOCRATIC_ >> >>>> Thanks >> >>>> Andrew >> >>>> FROM: wafa DAHMANI >> >>>> SENT: Tuesday, 2 July 2019 12:30 >> >>>> TO: community-discuss at afrinic.net >> >>>> CC: rpd at afrinic.net >> >>>> SUBJECT: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship >> >>>> Hi >> >>>> It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus >> >>>> foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in >> >>>> Kampala, were given a confidential Education package on AFRINIC >> >>>> Number Resources Policy proposals detailed in the following link: >> >>>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg >> >>>> The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation >> >>>> views of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG >> >>>> participants interventions on the proposals. >> >>>> The education package so proposed intends to condition these >> >>>> participants views on the proposals and their contributions at >> >>>> the PPM and after.... >> >>>> I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual >> >>>> willing to participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to >> >>>> know who is behind each source email address... only opinions >> >>>> expressed in the context of the PDP matter. The substance of >> >>>> contribution really matter. Diversity of views are encouraged. >> >>>> Lack of disagreement is more important than of agreement. Also >> >>>> PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence. >> >>>> RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear on these aspects of the rough >> >>>> consensus process. >> >>>> Section 6 >> >>>> One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough >> >>>> consensus. >> >>>> Section 7 >> >>>> Five people for and one hundred people against might still be >> >>>> rough consensus >> >>>> My African fellows, >> >>>> Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process >> >>>> is legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting was >> >>>> useful to you and allow you to identify the issues, understand >> >>>> what is going on and what Africa needs... I hope you?ve made >> >>>> your minds and now able to speak on your personal capacity.. >> >>>> The real education package is as below: >> >>>> ===== >> >>>> Proposal to establish AFRINIC >> >> >> http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997 >> >>>> IANA report on AFRINIC (Accreditation) >> >>>> https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf >> >>>> AFRINIC constitution >> >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws >> >>>> Registration Service Agreement >> >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa >> >>>> AFRINIC policy manual >> >>>> https://afrinic.net/policy/manual >> >>>> AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM >> >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre >> >>>> AFRINIC PDP >> >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/policy >> >>>> Rough Consensus >> >>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282 >> >>>> AFRINIC current policy proposals >> >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals >> >>>> RiRs PDPs >> >>>> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/ >> >>>> RIR comparative policy overview >> >>> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/ >> >>>> ============== >> >>>> Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way. >> >>>> Come build African Internet by Africans. >> >>>> As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation, >> >>>> afrinic member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of >> >>>> IPv4 is long established and discussed many times on this list. I >> >>>> hope the fellows would find these discussions in the archives. >> >>>> I call the attention of the board on the repetitive attempts of >> >>>> this resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid >> >>>> intentions... the provisions of the bylaws and RSA must >> >>>> carefully be applied to recall members to acceptable code of >> >>>> conduct. >> >>>> The African Internet community as well as the global Internet >> >>>> community must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy >> >>>> development process and operations. >> >>>> -Wafa _______________________________________________ >> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list >> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> >>> -- >> >>> VIVIEN >> >>> LARUS CLOUD SERVICE LIMITED >> >>> p:+852 29888918 >> >>> f:+852 29888368 >> >>> e:a.v.p at laruscloudservice.net >> >>> w:laruscloudservice.net/ [1] >> >>> a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> Community-Discuss mailing list >> >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> >> Links: >> >> ------ >> >> [1] http://laruscloudservice.net/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > b >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 20:54:47 +0100 >> From: afia faith >> To: rpd at afrinic.net >> Subject: Re: [rpd] RPD Digest, Vol 154, Issue 40 >> Message-ID: >> < >> CAAp+Vo2xe8id4pPVVctYFRcBtaodTeFowckYw32xo5OktDpeLA at mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Taiwo, >> Yes all the fellows are members of the RPD mailists so they knew what >> happened during PDP day. Yes we do 'discuss' policies within Afrinic >> Fellowship program but no we do not tell fellows what to say, they are in >> charge of their own opinion. Sorry,my name is Afi and i was the returning >> fellow for AFRINIC30. >> Thank you. >> >> Best, >> Afi Edoh >> Systems & Network Engineer/UN IGF MAG Member >> AFRINIC-27 l AfriSIG 2018 l AU-CIEFFA AMBASSADOR >> Mobile: (+228)91760238/ (+233) 540837065-WhatSapp >> LinkedIn l Skype:afia.faith l >> Facebook l Twitter >> l Website >> >> >> *we live once so live right* >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 8:19 PM wrote: >> >> > Send RPD mailing list submissions to >> > rpd at afrinic.net >> > >> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd >> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> > rpd-request at afrinic.net >> > >> > You can reach the person managing the list at >> > rpd-owner at afrinic.net >> > >> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> > than "Re: Contents of RPD digest..." >> > >> > >> > Today's Topics: >> > >> > 1. Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship >> > (hkariuki at isoc.or.ke) >> > 2. Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship >> > (Taiwo Oyewande) >> > >> > >> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >> > Message: 1 >> > Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2019 21:35:00 +0300 >> > From: hkariuki at isoc.or.ke >> > To: Taiwo Oyewande >> > Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net, rpd at afrinic.net >> > Subject: Re: [rpd] [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship >> > Message-ID: <20ca2157fc00c35bb07dec20cc4408fd at isoc.or.ke> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed >> > >> > Taiwo, >> > I am a first time Afrinic 30 fellow and attended the last AIS meeting in >> > Kampala and therefore by extension an Afrinic Alumni. I can confirm that >> > we were given summary and links to the policies before the meeting. We >> > also had a webinar before the meeting and materials emailed to us and >> > onsite discussions and after we join the mailing lists to continue >> > learning and contributing to policy discussions. >> > Regards, >> > Hellen >> > >> > >> > On 2019-07-02 16:25, Taiwo Oyewande wrote: >> > > Hi all, >> > > >> > > Taking a good look at this resource, it is obviously a summary of the >> > > policies to be discussed. >> > > >> > > Larus fellowship tends towards promoting the youth - students >> > > included-. I think this summary will be a good starting point for new >> > > members who are fresh in the policy development process. >> > > >> > > On this note, i will like to encourage Afrinic to emulate the >> > > foundation and come up with an official summary like this before every >> > > meeting to enable new and interested members get up to speed quickly. >> > > >> > > Cheers. >> > > >> > > Taiwo O >> > > >> > >> On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 at 20:36, Andrew Alston >> > >> wrote: >> > >> >> > >>> Wafa, >> > >>> >> > >>> So ? let me say this. I see a document here ? which lays out >> > >>> the policies ? and provides a perspective of problems, it also >> > >>> lists the pros and cons. Yes, Lazarus may have used the >> > >>> foundation to lobby for its position, but ? one of the things >> > >>> that I have long accepted in my life is ? if you believe in >> > >>> something ? you have to lobby for it ? and to be frank ? the >> > >>> summary that I see in this document ? is something that by and >> > >>> large ? should have been done long before they got around to it. >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> If I, as an individual, feel strongly about something, I am >> > >>> entirely free to go and advocate for my position. I am also >> > >>> entirely free to sponsor people to come to a public meeting ? >> > >>> and I am entirely free to choose those people as I so wish, if I >> > >>> choose the people who agree with me, well, that?s life ? but >> > >>> it certainly aint against the rules, it is the political nature of >> > >>> internet policy development. Do you think that similar does not >> > >>> happen elsewhere? People lobby for the positions that they care >> > >>> about. It happens in politics, it happens in life, and yet now we >> > >>> want to cry when someone else does the same thing. >> > >>> >> > >>> Let me also say ? it?s not like this hasn?t been happening >> > >>> before ? and I want to quote from the OIF website: _IOF >> > >>> ORGANISES POLITICAL ACTIVITIES AND ACTIONS OF MULTILATERAL >> > >>> COOPERATION THAT BENEFIT FRENCH-SPEAKING POPULATIONS.___ >> > >>> >> > >>> Yet ? this is an organization that for years has spent money >> > >>> filling the room with people ? and that statement does not say >> > >>> ? is of benefit to Africa ? it does not say is of benefit to >> > >>> the African continent ? it does not say is to the benefit of the >> > >>> continent ? it singles out a single demographic on the continent >> > >>> and says ? we do what we do for their benefit. Now, let me be >> > >>> very clear, if they wish to do that ? I?m actually ok with it >> > >>> ? though I admit I have waivered on this stance ? however, we >> > >>> cannot say ? because it?s a government political organization >> > >>> ? it?s ok ? but when a member chooses to have a foundation >> > >>> ? and sponsor people to the meetings ? and then lobby for the >> > >>> positions that member is passionate about ? suddenly its wrong. >> > >>> That is called hypocrisy. >> > >>> >> > >>> In Point Noire, I watched people walk to the microphone ? with >> > >>> slips of paper and read a comment on a policy ? and then go and >> > >>> sit down ? and the same happened in Botswana. Except, what I >> > >>> found was, when queried on the position that was taken at the >> > >>> microphone, the individual reading what they had off the paper, >> > >>> had patently obviously never read the policy and didn?t >> > >>> understand the position they were taking themselves. So who was >> > >>> behind that? And all of that ? is on video for the world to see >> > >>> ? but ? it was ok then ? suddenly it changes now because we >> > >>> don?t like the individual doing it? >> > >>> >> > >>> Sorry ? this isn?t the way it works ? and let me be clear >> > >>> ? Lu Heng is not a friend of mine, and in fact in Mauritius I >> > >>> had some pretty strong things to say to him to his face, in front >> > >>> of others who will testify to what I said to him ? however ? I >> > >>> respect his rights as a member to participate in what is >> > >>> essentially a democratic process, that means ? I respect his >> > >>> right to lobby for his views, I respect his right to put boots on >> > >>> the ground, and I respect his right to have his say. In the same >> > >>> way ? I respect the right of any member to do that ? and I >> > >>> respect the right of the members to then rebut what is said if >> > >>> they do not agree with it. It is through this lobbying position >> > >>> and through the back and forth that accompanies it, that great >> > >>> policy is born ? it is not through acquiescence, nor is it >> > >>> through the silencing of the rights of others. >> > >>> >> > >>> My view ? if anyone wants to come into the room and have their >> > >>> say ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people want to lobby >> > >>> their positions ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people >> > >>> want to spend money running tv adverts about their positions for >> > >>> all I care ? so be it ? that is the nature of the democratic >> > >>> position. If people want to bus a thousand people who share their >> > >>> views ? again ? so be it ? that is the democratic process. >> > >>> However, it is the community who then need to rebut ? but ? >> > >>> the rebuttal should be on the policy itself. What I see here >> > >>> however, is a rebuttal of policy and a lobbying position taken on >> > >>> the *CONTENT* of the policy ? unlike what I have seen time and >> > >>> again in the meetings where the lobbying position has NOTHING to >> > >>> do with the content or the policy. >> > >>> >> > >>> So rather than malign Lazarus for their actions here ? quite >> > >>> frankly, reading this document, and as much as as I have said, Lu >> > >>> and I have some serious differences, I applaud Lazarus for the >> > >>> comprehensive work ? and I applaud them for taking a stance that >> > >>> was based on the policy and I embrace their right to lobby for >> > >>> their position in any way shape or form. That is not to say I >> > >>> agree with the positions taken in this document ? I will reserve >> > >>> my policy comments for the policies and based on my own >> > >>> interpretation of such ? but ? I embrace the fact that at >> > >>> least, it was done based on what was written, and not on personal >> > >>> relationships, personal attacks, demographics, or anything else. >> > >>> >> > >>> So ? to Lazarus ? thank you for a job well done in the fact >> > >>> that you lobbied your position based on the policies ? and left >> > >>> the other garbage behind, which is what we so often see. >> > >>> >> > >>> Finally ? again ? I respect the right to do what they did ? >> > >>> and >> > >>> >> > >>> _THAT IS DEMOCRATIC_ >> > >>> >> > >>> Thanks >> > >>> >> > >>> Andrew >> > >>> >> > >>> FROM: wafa DAHMANI >> > >>> SENT: Tuesday, 2 July 2019 12:30 >> > >>> TO: community-discuss at afrinic.net >> > >>> CC: rpd at afrinic.net >> > >>> SUBJECT: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship >> > >>> >> > >>> Hi >> > >>> >> > >>> It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus >> > >>> foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in >> > >>> Kampala, were given a confidential Education package on AFRINIC >> > >>> Number Resources Policy proposals detailed in the following link: >> > >>> >> > >>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation >> > >>> views of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG >> > >>> participants interventions on the proposals. >> > >>> >> > >>> The education package so proposed intends to condition these >> > >>> participants views on the proposals and their contributions at >> > >>> the PPM and after.... >> > >>> >> > >>> I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual >> > >>> willing to participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to >> > >>> know who is behind each source email address... only opinions >> > >>> expressed in the context of the PDP matter. The substance of >> > >>> contribution really matter. Diversity of views are encouraged. >> > >>> Lack of disagreement is more important than of agreement. Also >> > >>> PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence. >> > >>> >> > >>> RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear on these aspects of the rough >> > >>> consensus process. >> > >>> >> > >>> Section 6 >> > >>> >> > >>> One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough >> > >>> consensus. >> > >>> >> > >>> Section 7 >> > >>> >> > >>> Five people for and one hundred people against might still be >> > >>> rough consensus >> > >>> >> > >>> My African fellows, >> > >>> >> > >>> Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process >> > >>> is legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting was >> > >>> useful to you and allow you to identify the issues, understand >> > >>> what is going on and what Africa needs... I hope you?ve made >> > >>> your minds and now able to speak on your personal capacity.. >> > >>> >> > >>> The real education package is as below: >> > >>> >> > >>> ===== >> > >>> >> > >>> Proposal to establish AFRINIC >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >> >> > > >> > >> http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997 >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> IANA report on AFRINIC (Accreditation) >> > >>> >> > >>> https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf >> > >>> >> > >>> AFRINIC constitution >> > >>> >> > >>> https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws >> > >>> >> > >>> Registration Service Agreement >> > >>> >> > >>> https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa >> > >>> >> > >>> AFRINIC policy manual >> > >>> >> > >>> https://afrinic.net/policy/manual >> > >>> >> > >>> AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM >> > >>> >> > >>> https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre >> > >>> >> > >>> AFRINIC PDP >> > >>> >> > >>> https://www.afrinic.net/policy >> > >>> >> > >>> Rough Consensus >> > >>> >> > >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282 >> > >>> >> > >>> AFRINIC current policy proposals >> > >>> >> > >>> https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals >> > >>> >> > >>> RiRs PDPs >> > >>> >> > >>> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/ >> > >>> >> > >>> RIR comparative policy overview >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/ >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> ============== >> > >>> >> > >>> Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way. >> > >>> >> > >>> Come build African Internet by Africans. >> > >>> >> > >>> As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation, >> > >>> afrinic member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of >> > >>> IPv4 is long established and discussed many times on this list. I >> > >>> hope the fellows would find these discussions in the archives. >> > >>> >> > >>> I call the attention of the board on the repetitive attempts of >> > >>> this resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid >> > >>> intentions... the provisions of the bylaws and RSA must >> > >>> carefully be applied to recall members to acceptable code of >> > >>> conduct. >> > >>> >> > >>> The African Internet community as well as the global Internet >> > >>> community must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy >> > >>> development process and operations. >> > >>> >> > >>> -Wafa _______________________________________________ >> > >>> Community-Discuss mailing list >> > >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> > >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > >> >> > >> -- >> > >> >> > >> VIVIEN >> > >> LARUS CLOUD SERVICE LIMITED >> > >> p:+852 29888918 >> > >> f:+852 29888368 >> > >> e:a.v.p at laruscloudservice.net >> > >> w:laruscloudservice.net/ [1] >> > >> a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> > >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> > >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > > >> > > >> > > Links: >> > > ------ >> > > [1] http://laruscloudservice.net/ >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Community-Discuss mailing list >> > > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> > > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > b >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------ >> > >> > Message: 2 >> > Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2019 20:17:38 +0100 >> > From: Taiwo Oyewande >> > To: hkariuki at isoc.or.ke >> > Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net, rpd at afrinic.net >> > Subject: Re: [rpd] [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship >> > Message-ID: <906C337A-852D-4857-B7F5-1CD39205112F at gmail.com> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >> > >> > @ >> > >> > Sent from my iPhone >> > >> > > On 3 Jul 2019, at 19:35, hkariuki at isoc.or.ke wrote: >> > > >> > > Taiwo, >> > > I am a first time Afrinic 30 fellow and attended the last AIS meeting >> in >> > Kampala and therefore by extension an Afrinic Alumni. I can confirm >> that we >> > were given summary and links to the policies before the meeting. We also >> > had a webinar before the meeting and materials emailed to us and onsite >> > discussions and after we join the mailing lists to continue learning and >> > contributing to policy discussions. >> > > Regards, >> > > Hellen >> > > >> > > >> > >> On 2019-07-02 16:25, Taiwo Oyewande wrote: >> > >> Hi all, >> > >> Taking a good look at this resource, it is obviously a summary of the >> > >> policies to be discussed. >> > >> Larus fellowship tends towards promoting the youth - students >> > >> included-. I think this summary will be a good starting point for new >> > >> members who are fresh in the policy development process. >> > >> On this note, i will like to encourage Afrinic to emulate the >> > >> foundation and come up with an official summary like this before >> every >> > >> meeting to enable new and interested members get up to speed quickly. >> > >> Cheers. >> > >> Taiwo O >> > >>> On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 at 20:36, Andrew Alston >> > >>> wrote: >> > >>>> Wafa, >> > >>>> So ? let me say this. I see a document here ? which lays out >> > >>>> the policies ? and provides a perspective of problems, it also >> > >>>> lists the pros and cons. Yes, Lazarus may have used the >> > >>>> foundation to lobby for its position, but ? one of the things >> > >>>> that I have long accepted in my life is ? if you believe in >> > >>>> something ? you have to lobby for it ? and to be frank ? the >> > >>>> summary that I see in this document ? is something that by and >> > >>>> large ? should have been done long before they got around to it. >> > >>>> If I, as an individual, feel strongly about something, I am >> > >>>> entirely free to go and advocate for my position. I am also >> > >>>> entirely free to sponsor people to come to a public meeting ? >> > >>>> and I am entirely free to choose those people as I so wish, if I >> > >>>> choose the people who agree with me, well, that?s life ? but >> > >>>> it certainly aint against the rules, it is the political nature of >> > >>>> internet policy development. Do you think that similar does not >> > >>>> happen elsewhere? People lobby for the positions that they care >> > >>>> about. It happens in politics, it happens in life, and yet now we >> > >>>> want to cry when someone else does the same thing. >> > >>>> Let me also say ? it?s not like this hasn?t been happening >> > >>>> before ? and I want to quote from the OIF website: _IOF >> > >>>> ORGANISES POLITICAL ACTIVITIES AND ACTIONS OF MULTILATERAL >> > >>>> COOPERATION THAT BENEFIT FRENCH-SPEAKING POPULATIONS.___ >> > >>>> Yet ? this is an organization that for years has spent money >> > >>>> filling the room with people ? and that statement does not say >> > >>>> ? is of benefit to Africa ? it does not say is of benefit to >> > >>>> the African continent ? it does not say is to the benefit of the >> > >>>> continent ? it singles out a single demographic on the continent >> > >>>> and says ? we do what we do for their benefit. Now, let me be >> > >>>> very clear, if they wish to do that ? I?m actually ok with it >> > >>>> ? though I admit I have waivered on this stance ? however, we >> > >>>> cannot say ? because it?s a government political organization >> > >>>> ? it?s ok ? but when a member chooses to have a foundation >> > >>>> ? and sponsor people to the meetings ? and then lobby for the >> > >>>> positions that member is passionate about ? suddenly its wrong. >> > >>>> That is called hypocrisy. >> > >>>> In Point Noire, I watched people walk to the microphone ? with >> > >>>> slips of paper and read a comment on a policy ? and then go and >> > >>>> sit down ? and the same happened in Botswana. Except, what I >> > >>>> found was, when queried on the position that was taken at the >> > >>>> microphone, the individual reading what they had off the paper, >> > >>>> had patently obviously never read the policy and didn?t >> > >>>> understand the position they were taking themselves. So who was >> > >>>> behind that? And all of that ? is on video for the world to see >> > >>>> ? but ? it was ok then ? suddenly it changes now because we >> > >>>> don?t like the individual doing it? >> > >>>> Sorry ? this isn?t the way it works ? and let me be clear >> > >>>> ? Lu Heng is not a friend of mine, and in fact in Mauritius I >> > >>>> had some pretty strong things to say to him to his face, in front >> > >>>> of others who will testify to what I said to him ? however ? I >> > >>>> respect his rights as a member to participate in what is >> > >>>> essentially a democratic process, that means ? I respect his >> > >>>> right to lobby for his views, I respect his right to put boots on >> > >>>> the ground, and I respect his right to have his say. In the same >> > >>>> way ? I respect the right of any member to do that ? and I >> > >>>> respect the right of the members to then rebut what is said if >> > >>>> they do not agree with it. It is through this lobbying position >> > >>>> and through the back and forth that accompanies it, that great >> > >>>> policy is born ? it is not through acquiescence, nor is it >> > >>>> through the silencing of the rights of others. >> > >>>> My view ? if anyone wants to come into the room and have their >> > >>>> say ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people want to lobby >> > >>>> their positions ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people >> > >>>> want to spend money running tv adverts about their positions for >> > >>>> all I care ? so be it ? that is the nature of the democratic >> > >>>> position. If people want to bus a thousand people who share their >> > >>>> views ? again ? so be it ? that is the democratic process. >> > >>>> However, it is the community who then need to rebut ? but ? >> > >>>> the rebuttal should be on the policy itself. What I see here >> > >>>> however, is a rebuttal of policy and a lobbying position taken on >> > >>>> the *CONTENT* of the policy ? unlike what I have seen time and >> > >>>> again in the meetings where the lobbying position has NOTHING to >> > >>>> do with the content or the policy. >> > >>>> So rather than malign Lazarus for their actions here ? quite >> > >>>> frankly, reading this document, and as much as as I have said, Lu >> > >>>> and I have some serious differences, I applaud Lazarus for the >> > >>>> comprehensive work ? and I applaud them for taking a stance that >> > >>>> was based on the policy and I embrace their right to lobby for >> > >>>> their position in any way shape or form. That is not to say I >> > >>>> agree with the positions taken in this document ? I will reserve >> > >>>> my policy comments for the policies and based on my own >> > >>>> interpretation of such ? but ? I embrace the fact that at >> > >>>> least, it was done based on what was written, and not on personal >> > >>>> relationships, personal attacks, demographics, or anything else. >> > >>>> So ? to Lazarus ? thank you for a job well done in the fact >> > >>>> that you lobbied your position based on the policies ? and left >> > >>>> the other garbage behind, which is what we so often see. >> > >>>> Finally ? again ? I respect the right to do what they did ? >> > >>>> and >> > >>>> _THAT IS DEMOCRATIC_ >> > >>>> Thanks >> > >>>> Andrew >> > >>>> FROM: wafa DAHMANI >> > >>>> SENT: Tuesday, 2 July 2019 12:30 >> > >>>> TO: community-discuss at afrinic.net >> > >>>> CC: rpd at afrinic.net >> > >>>> SUBJECT: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship >> > >>>> Hi >> > >>>> It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus >> > >>>> foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in >> > >>>> Kampala, were given a confidential Education package on AFRINIC >> > >>>> Number Resources Policy proposals detailed in the following link: >> > >>>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg >> > >>>> The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation >> > >>>> views of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG >> > >>>> participants interventions on the proposals. >> > >>>> The education package so proposed intends to condition these >> > >>>> participants views on the proposals and their contributions at >> > >>>> the PPM and after.... >> > >>>> I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual >> > >>>> willing to participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to >> > >>>> know who is behind each source email address... only opinions >> > >>>> expressed in the context of the PDP matter. The substance of >> > >>>> contribution really matter. Diversity of views are encouraged. >> > >>>> Lack of disagreement is more important than of agreement. Also >> > >>>> PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence. >> > >>>> RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear on these aspects of the rough >> > >>>> consensus process. >> > >>>> Section 6 >> > >>>> One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough >> > >>>> consensus. >> > >>>> Section 7 >> > >>>> Five people for and one hundred people against might still be >> > >>>> rough consensus >> > >>>> My African fellows, >> > >>>> Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process >> > >>>> is legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting was >> > >>>> useful to you and allow you to identify the issues, understand >> > >>>> what is going on and what Africa needs... I hope you?ve made >> > >>>> your minds and now able to speak on your personal capacity.. >> > >>>> The real education package is as below: >> > >>>> ===== >> > >>>> Proposal to establish AFRINIC >> > >> >> > >> http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997 >> > >>>> IANA report on AFRINIC (Accreditation) >> > >>>> https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf >> > >>>> AFRINIC constitution >> > >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws >> > >>>> Registration Service Agreement >> > >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa >> > >>>> AFRINIC policy manual >> > >>>> https://afrinic.net/policy/manual >> > >>>> AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM >> > >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre >> > >>>> AFRINIC PDP >> > >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/policy >> > >>>> Rough Consensus >> > >>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282 >> > >>>> AFRINIC current policy proposals >> > >>>> https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals >> > >>>> RiRs PDPs >> > >>>> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/ >> > >>>> RIR comparative policy overview >> > >>> >> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/ >> > >>>> ============== >> > >>>> Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way. >> > >>>> Come build African Internet by Africans. >> > >>>> As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation, >> > >>>> afrinic member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of >> > >>>> IPv4 is long established and discussed many times on this list. I >> > >>>> hope the fellows would find these discussions in the archives. >> > >>>> I call the attention of the board on the repetitive attempts of >> > >>>> this resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid >> > >>>> intentions... the provisions of the bylaws and RSA must >> > >>>> carefully be applied to recall members to acceptable code of >> > >>>> conduct. >> > >>>> The African Internet community as well as the global Internet >> > >>>> community must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy >> > >>>> development process and operations. >> > >>>> -Wafa _______________________________________________ >> > >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list >> > >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> > >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > >>> -- >> > >>> VIVIEN >> > >>> LARUS CLOUD SERVICE LIMITED >> > >>> p:+852 29888918 >> > >>> f:+852 29888368 >> > >>> e:a.v.p at laruscloudservice.net >> > >>> w:laruscloudservice.net/ [1] >> > >>> a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR >> > >>> _______________________________________________ >> > >>> Community-Discuss mailing list >> > >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> > >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > >> Links: >> > >> ------ >> > >> [1] http://laruscloudservice.net/ >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> > >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> > >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > b >> > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------ >> > >> > Subject: Digest Footer >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > RPD mailing list >> > RPD at afrinic.net >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------ >> > >> > End of RPD Digest, Vol 154, Issue 40 >> > ************************************ >> > >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/attachments/20190703/1425e599/attachment.html >> > >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Subject: Digest Footer >> >> _______________________________________________ >> RPD mailing list >> RPD at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of RPD Digest, Vol 154, Issue 41 >> ************************************ >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Wed Jul 3 21:35:13 2019 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2019 00:35:13 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] 2019 Board Elections: Fix against having sole candidates WAS Re: AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: <8a612bb7-2660-d5f5-1d5f-2e1b47773ba7@gmail.com> References: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com> <8a612bb7-2660-d5f5-1d5f-2e1b47773ba7@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 4:12 PM Sunday Folayan wrote: > Let us grab some pop-corn and stayed tuned to this movie channel. > Mmmmm ? very funny. Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Wed Jul 3 22:07:29 2019 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2019 01:07:29 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: <5ACD5EA8-9FCE-4EBC-896A-5488FB1D52DB@consulintel.es> References: <59F8813D-32D2-4A91-997D-867579439B76@consulintel.es> <5ACD5EA8-9FCE-4EBC-896A-5488FB1D52DB@consulintel.es> Message-ID: Hi Jordi, On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 2:51 PM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss < community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > I?m angrier about this as much as I think on it again. > I hope you have come down. > > Can all the people that got those emails confirm if they have provided > voluntarily their emails or if they have participated in Afrinic lists, or > if those emails are part of their Afrinic contacts, in order to understand > if this personal data (emails are personal data), have been collected from > Afrinic internal databases. > I can confirm I did receive such similar emails from various candidates and some of their supporters seeking my vote. I can also confirm that my address book is full of contact email addresses of technical members of various communities. I for instance know most email addresses of technical people in my country and a few other countries in East and Southern Africa and I have exchanged emails with folks in the past and I still reach out to them often regarding various Internet related activities. Cheers, Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jordi.palet at consulintel.es Wed Jul 3 22:39:03 2019 From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ) Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2019 00:39:03 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: References: <59F8813D-32D2-4A91-997D-867579439B76@consulintel.es> <5ACD5EA8-9FCE-4EBC-896A-5488FB1D52DB@consulintel.es> Message-ID: <93D7F2FF-40C7-45CB-AEDC-EA833D16F6C9@consulintel.es> Hi Noah, I?m sure we all have contacts from lots of people from the community, but we use those contacts for the reason they have been provided, is not lawful to use those for anything else. The point here is that even if I?ve your email because we have contected about operational issues of our networks (for example), I can use your email for selling you ?fruits? or ?a car? or ?convince you about what candidates to the board you should vote?. In fact, according to the GDPR (and in many countries even before the GDPR), if I?ve your email because you?re my customer for shoes, and tomorrow I setup a shop for fish, I can?t use your email for that. If instead of shoes it is clothes, it may depend on the original data that was provided about my business when you registered for the shoes. However, definitively I can?t use your email for sending you a support request for my prefered board candidates. Anyway, there is a simple answer to all that. Can Ahmed, who send the original email, confirm if he provided it to the sender, for elections information or something else ? Can other folks who got that email, confirm if they have provided it? With just a few responses, we will be able to understand if that was part of an allowed communication or there is data protection issue. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 4/7/19 0:07, "Noah" escribi?: Hi Jordi, On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 2:51 PM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote: I?m angrier about this as much as I think on it again. I hope you have come down. Can all the people that got those emails confirm if they have provided voluntarily their emails or if they have participated in Afrinic lists, or if those emails are part of their Afrinic contacts, in order to understand if this personal data (emails are personal data), have been collected from Afrinic internal databases. I can confirm I did receive such similar emails from various candidates and some of their supporters seeking my vote. I can also confirm that my address book is full of contact email addresses of technical members of various communities. I for instance know most email addresses of technical people in my country and a few other countries in East and Southern Africa and I have exchanged emails with folks in the past and I still reach out to them often regarding various Internet related activities. Cheers, Noah ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Wed Jul 3 22:41:11 2019 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2019 01:41:11 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com> References: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com> Message-ID: Dear Ahmed First and foremost, welcome on-board this community mailing list since I am seeing you post for the first time ever and I hope you will continue to engage in various discussions as a member of the community now. So, I have been catching up with email and I would like to also contribute to the discussion by stating a few things in reference to people being *biased* in general. Let me introduce myself first. I personally work for AS37100 a member of AfriNIC, I was popularly elected by the community as a volunteer to the AfriNIC ASO - AC and my term ends next year in 2020, I am a secretary general of an ISP association in my country of residence, and I am generally involved within the AFRICAN internet community as a volunteer with various non-profit organizations because voluntary work is fulfilling. However, whatever I say here often is from a personal point of view unless I state otherwise. I am telling you all this because, with all my years of engagement in this community, I have always spoken in my own personal capacity that is why I use my own personal email address. Nothing I say is ever a representation of any of the organization I am affiliated with, though so often, my affiliations have been used by some members of this community to attack my personal character, sometime as far as going after my employment just because of my personal views on various matters pertaining the African Internet Community. What I am trying to say is that, Wafa as a community member, just like me, so often speaks on her own personal capacity and I believe she has since clarified this to you and the community. Therefore, I doubt its "*bias*"as you put it ...... and my view of that email from her to you is basically an elections campaign for a candidate and candidates of her choice and in the end, her efforts seems to have paid off as some of the candidate she was supporting for the Northern Africa seat Dr.Habib ended up getting the highest votes ever of all candidates in the entire board elections. I was on the ground in Kampala and Habib did well also in terms of campaigning, so did other candidates and I can understand why he was Wafa's choice and and her strategy for the Northern Africa candidate for board election did indeed work. That is what good mobilization in campaigns does. In fact just in the same elections, there was a very well coordinated campaign that involved among other things, mudslinging of a specific candidate by some members of the various constituencies within the community and this also perfectly OK. Folks can go as far as using print media and sometime private lobbying through mailing lists and chat rooms. Its the nature of politicking and campaigns are tough and sometimes they get ugly, after all, not all candidates are supposed to be liked by the entire electorate yet politicking still goes on. This is basically pure politics 101 and its perfectly acceptable and normal and as they say, politics is part of daily life and so many of us in this community have been party to this and its nothing new. I submit to you that, being a member of, say, the AfriNIC appeals committee, or ASO-AC or GC ...you name it, does not stop someone from having their own *subjective* *views* nor does it stop them from being involved in community politics at a personal level. Remember above and beyond, we are all part of the Internet community before our various affiliations and after being party to these affiliations, we continue to be members of the internet community and remain in this community. What really matters is respect for each other and how we treat each other even when we disagree because in the end, its through this politics that we progress as we continue to individually contribute, improve and resolve some of our challenges. Cheers and I look forward to more engagement with you Mr.Ahmed. Noah On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 2:17 PM Ahmed Fadl wrote: > Hi Wafa, > > > > > > Thanks for your email. > > > > I, among other members of AFRINIC in Egypt, received the following email > from you many times. > > > > I wondered at that time why should I vote for these candidates specially > for those in Eastern and Southern regions while each one was the sole > candidate in his region. I quote this from your email "Ladies and > Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy ...." what is your strategy and > who are you ? > > > > > > If you are talking about biasing the community, So, do you consider your > email as a "member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex > Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC." fall under what ? > > > > I sent this mail many time but I don?t know why I can?t find this mail on > community > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Ahmed Fadl > > > > > > *From:* wafa Dahmani [mailto:wafatn7604 at gmail.com] > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 19, 2019 1:05 PM > *To:* wafa Dahmani > *Subject:* AFRINIC Borad Elections > > > > > > > > Dear, > > My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African > community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; > ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC. > I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates: > > Board of Directors: > North Africa (seat 1) > > - Habin Youssef > > West Africa (seat 2) > > - Ly Ousmane > > > South Africa (seat 5) > > - Mpisane Vika William > > > East Africa (seat 6) > > - Nkusi Robert Ford > > > Non-regional (seat 7) > > - Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye > > > > > Election Number Resource Organization Number Council > > - Mustapha Ben Jemaa > > > Election Policy Development Working Group > > - Komi Elitcha > - Sami Hassan > > > Election Governance Committee > > - Daniel Nanghaka > > Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy and in order to > preserve AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right > candidates for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all > our efforts and vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for > an adequate board > > the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very > simple for all categories except the policy development Working group where > we want you to mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates > We strongly solicit your support > > Thank you > > Wafa Dahmani > > member AFRINIC Appeal Committee > Global IGF MAG member > ASO / AC excom member > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Wed Jul 3 23:19:16 2019 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2019 02:19:16 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: References: <1478031339.474342.1562059823971.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> <20190702203653.Horde.w8XYOZ5zj0KYbKXU_Q9euLb@musatesa.net> Message-ID: Dear Anne-vivien, On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 2:32 PM Anne-vivien Paris wrote: > Dear Noah, > > Thank you for your interest in the Foundation. Please let me clarify: > I had missed your email but just for clarification, I am not interested in the foundation actually. > (1) Larus Foundation sponsors events in different regions in addition to > those in Africa. For example, very recently we have sponsored a few > candidates of different ethics to attend ICANN in Morocco. You can find the > list of events we sponsor in the coming future on our website : > https://www.larusfoundation.org/about-the-fellowship/ (simply click the > "apply now" and you will find a list of events). > This is exactly my point because Morocco is still in Africa last I checked. My query was if the foundation has also offered fellowship anywhere else but Africa. > > (2) Regarding your doubt on our 5th FAQ, let me explain that we do not > target any particualr parties/regions. Our 5th FAQ states that "I am from > Africa but I would really like ot attend RIR meetings outside Africa. Will > that be possible?". Africa is randomly selected; you can indeed understand > it is equivalent to "If I am from Asia can I attend meetings outside Asia". > Not if you completely spell our Africa in your FAQ. So still does not add up Vivien. > We appreciate you pointing this out - indeed the statement allows room for > overead. However, I think if you take the extra time to read the answer, > things will be clarified - we state explicitly that the Internet is > borderless and participation of Internet governance shall not be restricted > by geographical factors. Let me make it clear that this applies to all > continents in the world. > Again any such fellowship in other regions as you call them continent like RIPE, ARIN, APNIC or LACNIC? > We thank you for the questions you raised which allows us to clarify > things. My apologies for the wrong name used in the education package - it > was a careless mistake. We will update it accordingly. > Apology accepted and just as a suggestion, the best thing you can do is to direct newbies to the rpd-mailing list, the pdp section on the AfriNIC website, ratified policies, current policy policy proposals and rpd-list archives as the best places for new comers to get education about the policy development. Newbies ought to develop a culture of reading and above all patience. Individually drafted summary documents are prone to errors and mistakes as proven already and thus misleading. > Indeed, the community's feedback on us help the Foundation better itself > and we appreciate that. > My feedback is that AfriNIC is better off running the fellowship program as candidates for AfriNIC fellowship tend to be selected from various African countries. If any member wants to support the AfriNIC fellowship program, they can work with AfriNIC. Noah > Vivien > *Vivien PARIS* > *Larus FOUNDATION* > p:+44 7746 416450 > w: www.larusfoundation.org > a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR > > > On Wed, 3 Jul 2019 at 03:43, Noah wrote: > >> >> >> On Tue, 2 Jul 2019, 21:37 Ousmane M. TESSA, wrote: >> >>> Huumm! Noah. >>> Better ask difference between "sponsorship to educate newcomers" or >>> lobbying to push specific agenda in Africa. >>> Elsewhere, the fear of Justice will deter most of people to even think >>> about this trick. >>> >> >> Tessa >> >> While I wait for Viven response of their activity beyond Afrinic service >> region... >> >> I have had to go to the foundation website and the 5th faq question >> specifically targets folks from Africa.... how attractive is that.! >> >> Have we become this vulnerable? >> >> https://www.larusfoundation.org/faq/ >> >> Noah >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > > > -- > *Vivien * > *Larus Cloud Service Limited* > p:+852 29888918 > f:+852 29888368 > e:a.v.p at laruscloudservice.net > w:laruscloudservice.net/ > a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mark.tinka at seacom.mu Thu Jul 4 02:14:41 2019 From: mark.tinka at seacom.mu (Mark Tinka) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2019 04:14:41 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] 2019 Board Elections: Fix against having sole candidates WAS Re: AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: <8a612bb7-2660-d5f5-1d5f-2e1b47773ba7@gmail.com> References: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com> <8a612bb7-2660-d5f5-1d5f-2e1b47773ba7@gmail.com> Message-ID: <7b1f6155-d585-5b57-59e9-366fa67cd3db@seacom.mu> On 3/Jul/19 15:10, Sunday Folayan wrote: > I propose the following fixes: I also agree that it's better to focus on constructive fixes rather than labour what has already happened. We could all do that for days and we'll still be spinning our wheels 12 months from now. > c) Where there is only one candidate after all said and done, the > members should be able to reject such a candidate at the Ballot > ?For item 3, ... Perhaps it is too early to comment. Let us grab some > pop-corn and stayed tuned to this movie channel. I think the suggestion above is not unreasonable. It would not be a good idea to give voters an all-or-nothing choice, so for the next round of voting, I think it's a good idea to give members the option of rejecting a specific candidate without foregoing the entire voting process. Mark. From mark.tinka at seacom.mu Thu Jul 4 02:31:05 2019 From: mark.tinka at seacom.mu (Mark Tinka) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2019 04:31:05 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: <93D7F2FF-40C7-45CB-AEDC-EA833D16F6C9@consulintel.es> References: <59F8813D-32D2-4A91-997D-867579439B76@consulintel.es> <5ACD5EA8-9FCE-4EBC-896A-5488FB1D52DB@consulintel.es> <93D7F2FF-40C7-45CB-AEDC-EA833D16F6C9@consulintel.es> Message-ID: <96f84e08-395e-0d12-8c41-d0f15c1c669d@seacom.mu> I spend 20% of my e-mail time unsubscribing from lists I was signed on, that I have zero clue about. I don't wonder how my e-mail address was obtained (I mean, I could guess since Google'ing myself actually returns a usable result), but I just don't have the time. A further 10% of my e-mail time is ignoring Linkedin requests for people I don't know and have no immediate connection with. I've found many of those are just trying to grow their network, sell you something, or both. I spend another 10% of my time ignoring and deleting e-mails from companies that join industry meetings simply to sell you attendee lists or to sell you airtime with other participants. ITW, PTC, Capacity * are all victims of this, and this has now spread to our beloved NOG community. I again spend another 7% of my e-mail time just ignoring or deleting what I term "improper" correspondence. This has, in the past, included e-mails from people asking me to vote a certain way for a number of elections, all over the world, for a number of organizations (within and outside of our industry). If I find the way in which you reached out to me for this, especially if I don't know you, I just delete the e-mail and move on. If I know you and feel you can do well for the community, I'll advise you about doing better. I then spend another 3% of my e-mail time ignoring discussions that aren't going anywhere. That leaves 50% of my e-mail time to do something actually constructive. That's not a lot, in the grand scheme of things. If we throw everyone in the slammer and not teach them how to do better, we won't have anyone left to throw in the slammer or teach about how to do better. Bottom line, you can either spend your 24hrs in a day advancing a meaningful objective, or not. I do a lot more of the former. Time on this earth is limited... if I were drop dead right now, the mailboxes I leave behind will still be half full of just nonsense. Mark. On 4/Jul/19 00:39, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote: > > Hi Noah, > > ? > > I?m sure we all have contacts from lots of people from the community, > but we use those contacts for the reason they have been provided, is > not lawful to use those for anything else. > > ? > > The point here is that even if I?ve your email because we have > contected about operational issues of our networks (for example), I > can use your email for selling you ?fruits? or ?a car? or ?convince > you about what candidates to the board you should vote?. > > ? > > In fact, according to the GDPR (and in many countries even before the > GDPR), if I?ve your email because you?re my customer for shoes, and > tomorrow I setup a shop for fish, I can?t use your email for that. If > instead of shoes it is clothes, it may depend on the original data > that was provided about my business when you registered for the shoes. > However, definitively I can?t use your email for sending you a support > request for my prefered board candidates. > > ? > > Anyway, there is a simple answer to all that. Can Ahmed, who send the > original email, confirm if he provided it to the sender, for elections > information or something else ? > > ? > > Can other folks who got that email, confirm if they have provided it? > > ? > > With just a few responses, we will be able to understand if that was > part of an allowed communication or there is data protection issue. > > ? > > Regards, > > Jordi > > @jordipalet > > ? > > ? > > ? > > El 4/7/19 0:07, "Noah" > escribi?: > > ? > > Hi Jordi, > > ? > > On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 2:51 PM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via > Community-Discuss > wrote: > > I?m angrier about this as much as I think on it again. > > ? > > I hope you have come down. > > ? > > ? > > Can all the people that got those emails confirm if they have > provided voluntarily their emails or if they have participated in > Afrinic lists, or if those emails are part of their Afrinic > contacts, in order to understand if this personal data (emails are > personal data), have been collected from Afrinic internal databases. > > ? > > I can confirm I did receive such similar emails from various > candidates and some of their supporters seeking my vote. I can also > confirm that my address book is full of contact email addresses of > technical members of various communities. I for instance know most > email addresses of technical people in my country and a few other > countries in East and Southern Africa and I have exchanged emails with > folks in the past and I still reach out to them often regarding > various Internet related activities. > > ? > > Cheers, > > Noah > > ? > > ? > > > ********************************************** > IPv4 is over > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > http://www.theipv6company.com > The IPv6 Company > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged > or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive > use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty > authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of > this information, even if partially, including attached files, is > strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you > are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, > distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if > partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be > considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original > sender to inform about this communication and delete it. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From badru.ntege at nftconsult.com Thu Jul 4 03:43:55 2019 From: badru.ntege at nftconsult.com (Badru Ntege) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2019 03:43:55 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: References: <0DAD89A9-E694-4639-94A9-E3D741D00A94@consulintel.es> Message-ID: Fully Agree with Sanders comments bellow. We already have the frameworks in place. ?On 7/3/19, 8:22 PM, "Sander Steffann" wrote: Hi Jordi, > I think this should not be done by third parties, but authors and staff (see our previous email on this about a 1-2 pages PDF), not going into 2 and 3 above and making sure that is done 1 week before the meeting, so only *latest* proposals/versions are considered. I accept, except s/authors and staff/wg chairs/. Afrinic staff is in a difficult position as their jobs and tasks can be influenced by policy proposals, so asking them to write a non-biased summary isn't fair. The working group chairs have explicitly chosen to represent the working group as a whole and to be neutral regarding proposals, so they are the most appropriate people to make summaries. It's what they do when determining consensus anyway, so it is already part of their tasks. Sharing that before a face-to-face meeting would be very helpful and will help focus the discussions there. Cheers! Sander From badru.ntege at nftconsult.com Thu Jul 4 04:03:22 2019 From: badru.ntege at nftconsult.com (Badru Ntege) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2019 04:03:22 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani In-Reply-To: <92B8D2EE-27F4-4320-9F5C-C53131E43C7E@liquidtelecom.com> References: <1596679867.567581.1562168815318.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> <92B8D2EE-27F4-4320-9F5C-C53131E43C7E@liquidtelecom.com> Message-ID: <71CA8E04-00C6-4F6A-B6D6-A9217C0695E5@nftconsult.com> Andrew The archives of a number of mailing lists you belong to have many similar emails authored by you prior to elections. We have also seen emails by you asking an entire community of ISPA not once but a number of times to act in a particular way. Supporting a particular slate of candidates is not new in AfriNIC nor is it new any election. And when you talk about neutrality ??? its like the Kettle calling the Pot Black. Anyone in our bottom up position is free to lobby for a particular outcome. As a board member you also lobbied and also ferried people to AGMM?s to strengthen your number of positions. (you have denied this many times so lets call it a standing allegation) The AfriNIC membership time and time have shown their ability to make up their minds in elections after listening to many different views either shared on the floor by candidates, in the corridors by supporters on through email. I see nothing wrong here at the moment. However, if the community thinks that something has to change we also have mechanisms in place to make the necessary changes to course correct. Regards [signature_1558140432] [signature_1470109083] From: Andrew Alston Date: Wednesday, July 3, 2019 at 8:16 PM To: wafa DAHMANI , Paschal Ochang Cc: community-discuss Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani Wafa, While I agree you have the right to campaign for anyone you so please ? and I believe that is very much the case ? a.) Your email was read as an implication that the ASO was supporting said candidates ? which I don?t think anyone believes ? and the question has been asked in multiple regions to clarify this b.) As a member of the appeal committee ? you have to maintain a position of total neutrality ? this email clearly demonstrates that you are in no way neutral on issues inside the PDP ? since it advocates for the election of co-chairs with no reasons given why ? and requests immediate mobilization to meet ?our strategy?. This email casts serious aspersions on the neutrality of the appeals committee. Furthermore ? can you please clarify to this list ? what exactly is this strategy and who owns this strategy ? you email in this regard was explicit ? there is a strategy ? it is held by multiple individuals outside of the purview of the general community ? and it concerns the placement of members of the board and the PDP ? and I think it is only fair that if lobbying is being done ? it is transparent and open ? and as such ? I would like to know what this strategy is and where it comes from. This email however, was entirely and totally unacceptable in my eyes ? NOT because you lobbied ? I believe as I have said many times that this is your right. It is unacceptable because it implies positions on behalf of other groups who I for one do not believe share that position, it is unacceptable because it is a clear indication of lack of neutrality in a context where neutrality is required, and coming on the heels of what I view as a blatant and unfounded attack on a non-profit foundation ? well ? it really highlights certain things. So again ? myself, and I am sure others, would like to know about this strategy and who ?our? is in the context of ths. Thanks Andrew From: wafa DAHMANI Date: Wednesday, 3 July 2019 at 18:50 To: Paschal Ochang Cc: community-discuss Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani Hello All, I can campaign for anyone and its perfectly normal and I was speaking in my personal behalf. I understand that my salutations can be confusing, but I sent this email in my personal capacity. Being a volunteer at ASO - AC does not strip me off my rights to my personal opinions nor does it mean I can not campaign for my preferred candidates. In anycase, the ASO - AC has its own procedures and communication channels. Wafa Dahmani Member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member ________________________________ De: "Paschal Ochang" ?: "community-discuss" , "rpd" Envoy?: Mercredi 3 Juillet 2019 16:09:18 Objet: [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani Hello all, this was posted under the thread of allegations against Larus Foundation so I did the honors of opening it as separate thread so that this two issues can be dealt with separately. This was posted as an allegation towards Wafa and the mail displays a act of lobbying. Can this honorable community be clarified on this allegations please. Dear, My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC. I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates: Board of Directors: North Africa (seat 1) Habin Youssef West Africa (seat 2) Ly Ousmane South Africa (seat 5) Mpisane Vika William East Africa (seat 6) Nkusi Robert Ford Non-regional (seat 7) Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye Election Number Resource Organization Number Council Mustapha Ben Jemaa Election Policy Development Working Group Komi Elitcha Sami Hassan Election Governance Committee Daniel Nanghaka Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy and in order to preserve AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right candidates for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all our efforts and vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for an adequate board the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very simple for all categories except the policy development Working group where we want you to mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates We strongly solicit your support Thank you Wafa Dahmani member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member _______________________________________________ RPD mailing list RPD at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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Salih Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST Head of R&D, NTC, SUDAN President of SDv6TF T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 ________________________________ From: Noah Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 1:41 AM To: Ahmed Fadl Cc: Community-Discuss at afrinic.net; wafa Dahmani Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Dear Ahmed First and foremost, welcome on-board this community mailing list since I am seeing you post for the first time ever and I hope you will continue to engage in various discussions as a member of the community now. So, I have been catching up with email and I would like to also contribute to the discussion by stating a few things in reference to people being biased in general. Let me introduce myself first. I personally work for AS37100 a member of AfriNIC, I was popularly elected by the community as a volunteer to the AfriNIC ASO - AC and my term ends next year in 2020, I am a secretary general of an ISP association in my country of residence, and I am generally involved within the AFRICAN internet community as a volunteer with various non-profit organizations because voluntary work is fulfilling. However, whatever I say here often is from a personal point of view unless I state otherwise. I am telling you all this because, with all my years of engagement in this community, I have always spoken in my own personal capacity that is why I use my own personal email address. Nothing I say is ever a representation of any of the organization I am affiliated with, though so often, my affiliations have been used by some members of this community to attack my personal character, sometime as far as going after my employment just because of my personal views on various matters pertaining the African Internet Community. What I am trying to say is that, Wafa as a community member, just like me, so often speaks on her own personal capacity and I believe she has since clarified this to you and the community. Therefore, I doubt its "bias"as you put it ...... and my view of that email from her to you is basically an elections campaign for a candidate and candidates of her choice and in the end, her efforts seems to have paid off as some of the candidate she was supporting for the Northern Africa seat Dr.Habib ended up getting the highest votes ever of all candidates in the entire board elections. I was on the ground in Kampala and Habib did well also in terms of campaigning, so did other candidates and I can understand why he was Wafa's choice and and her strategy for the Northern Africa candidate for board election did indeed work. That is what good mobilization in campaigns does. In fact just in the same elections, there was a very well coordinated campaign that involved among other things, mudslinging of a specific candidate by some members of the various constituencies within the community and this also perfectly OK. Folks can go as far as using print media and sometime private lobbying through mailing lists and chat rooms. Its the nature of politicking and campaigns are tough and sometimes they get ugly, after all, not all candidates are supposed to be liked by the entire electorate yet politicking still goes on. This is basically pure politics 101 and its perfectly acceptable and normal and as they say, politics is part of daily life and so many of us in this community have been party to this and its nothing new. I submit to you that, being a member of, say, the AfriNIC appeals committee, or ASO-AC or GC ...you name it, does not stop someone from having their own subjective views nor does it stop them from being involved in community politics at a personal level. Remember above and beyond, we are all part of the Internet community before our various affiliations and after being party to these affiliations, we continue to be members of the internet community and remain in this community. What really matters is respect for each other and how we treat each other even when we disagree because in the end, its through this politics that we progress as we continue to individually contribute, improve and resolve some of our challenges. Cheers and I look forward to more engagement with you Mr.Ahmed. Noah On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 2:17 PM Ahmed Fadl > wrote: Hi Wafa, Thanks for your email. I, among other members of AFRINIC in Egypt, received the following email from you many times. I wondered at that time why should I vote for these candidates specially for those in Eastern and Southern regions while each one was the sole candidate in his region. I quote this from your email "Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy ...." what is your strategy and who are you ? If you are talking about biasing the community, So, do you consider your email as a "member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC." fall under what ? I sent this mail many time but I don?t know why I can?t find this mail on community Thanks, Ahmed Fadl From: wafa Dahmani [mailto:wafatn7604 at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 1:05 PM To: wafa Dahmani > Subject: AFRINIC Borad Elections Dear, My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC. I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates: Board of Directors: North Africa (seat 1) * Habin Youssef West Africa (seat 2) * Ly Ousmane South Africa (seat 5) * Mpisane Vika William East Africa (seat 6) * Nkusi Robert Ford Non-regional (seat 7) * Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye Election Number Resource Organization Number Council * Mustapha Ben Jemaa Election Policy Development Working Group * Komi Elitcha * Sami Hassan Election Governance Committee * Daniel Nanghaka Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy and in order to preserve AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right candidates for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all our efforts and vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for an adequate board the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very simple for all categories except the policy development Working group where we want you to mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates We strongly solicit your support Thank you Wafa Dahmani member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com Thu Jul 4 06:29:19 2019 From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2019 06:29:19 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani In-Reply-To: <71CA8E04-00C6-4F6A-B6D6-A9217C0695E5@nftconsult.com> References: <1596679867.567581.1562168815318.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> <92B8D2EE-27F4-4320-9F5C-C53131E43C7E@liquidtelecom.com> <71CA8E04-00C6-4F6A-B6D6-A9217C0695E5@nftconsult.com> Message-ID: Badru, Yet again ? you have not read my emails. I fully the support the right to lobby in public forms I fully support the right of any individual to have their say I fully support the right of any member to change the rules using due process as defined I have said this, over and over again. I have also been very blunt about the fact that yes, I have lobbied, and I make no apology for that because I believe that the right to lobby in the pursuit of ones goals, and I believe that essentially, elections are political processes and democratic in nature, and democracy doesn?t work without that aspect of it. However, what I fundamentally disagree with ? is misrepresentation of who we represent ? something I have never done ? and I fundamentally disagree with people who are in a directly conflicted position taking a stand which deepens that conflict, especially when the neutrality directly relates to things that affect this community. I will quote from one of the emails I sent ? which was to an email list containing many members: I will quote from two separate emails that I have sent over the years to lobby in previous elections ? these were sent to email lists that were not AfriNIC ? they were not sent to individuals unsolicited ? and there are many on this list who can attest to the accuracy of these emails. Email 1: I am not going to tell any of you how to vote ? What I tell you above is my perspective, and yes, its biased towards what I have seen and how well I know the candidates. What I will say however, is that it is absolutely critical that the South African members get online and vote ? or show up at the meeting and vote ? or send proxies ? whichever ? but have your voice heard. As we move into a time when v4 is running out (AfriNIC is into its final /8), and when we move into an environment where so much is changing with that runout ? and particularly when we have managed to turn an organization around ? we need to ensure that we have strong candidates that represent the community and can keep the organization alive. Because without AfriNIC ? without a registry ? we end up in trouble ? and no one really wants the alternative scenarios. So what I will ask is, look at the candidates, consider them not from a geo-political perspective, not from a linguistic perspective, but consider them on the merits and what they have achieved ? and then vote as you feel. Their CV?s are all online. Email 2: As such, for those of you who are opting to issue proxies and wish to issue proxies to myself or via myself, this is how I will be voting. Those of you who are voting electronically, I encourage you when the slate comes out to study each and every candidate ? but I am confident that what I have said above will ring true, and I ask every member of this list to get out there and use your vote, either for one of these candidates or otherwise one of the others when the slate comes out ? but please, make sure you vote, either via proxy or via online or in person. I cannot stress how many critical issues are going to come up in the next year or two, and without a strong and independent board we could face serious issues. Both emails quote above are a matter of record for the world to see ? and here is the major difference ? a.) No where do I misrepresent who I am speaking for b.) I explicitly state ? these are MY views, accept them or reject them, but ? please vote ? because its important to have your voice heard. Had Wafa sent an email saying ?Hi, I?m Wafa, and these are my specific views on each candidate, and this is why I will be voting the way that I am, and if you like these choices, feel free to vote with me, but if you don?t, still have your say in the way you see fit?, I would be here, backing her to the hilt ? however, what I saw was a.) a misrepresentation by implication of who was represented and b.) a blatant display lacking of neutrality from the chair of the appeals committee ? particularly in light of the PDP and the position of co-chair ? and I believe that brings the integrity and neutrality of said appeals committee into question when it is critical that trust in that committee remains high, which is why I agree with Sander when he called for her to step down to maintain the integrity of the appeals process. So ? I see no inconsistency with what I have said in the last 48 hours or what I have said, or done, over the years. What I do see from you ? yet again ? is a highly selective reading of what I have said for your own purposes. Andrew From: Badru Ntege Sent: Thursday, 4 July 2019 07:03 To: Andrew Alston ; wafa DAHMANI ; Paschal Ochang Cc: community-discuss Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani Andrew The archives of a number of mailing lists you belong to have many similar emails authored by you prior to elections. We have also seen emails by you asking an entire community of ISPA not once but a number of times to act in a particular way. Supporting a particular slate of candidates is not new in AfriNIC nor is it new any election. And when you talk about neutrality ??? its like the Kettle calling the Pot Black. Anyone in our bottom up position is free to lobby for a particular outcome. As a board member you also lobbied and also ferried people to AGMM?s to strengthen your number of positions. (you have denied this many times so lets call it a standing allegation) The AfriNIC membership time and time have shown their ability to make up their minds in elections after listening to many different views either shared on the floor by candidates, in the corridors by supporters on through email. I see nothing wrong here at the moment. However, if the community thinks that something has to change we also have mechanisms in place to make the necessary changes to course correct. Regards [signature_1558140432] [signature_1470109083] From: Andrew Alston > Date: Wednesday, July 3, 2019 at 8:16 PM To: wafa DAHMANI >, Paschal Ochang > Cc: community-discuss > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani Wafa, While I agree you have the right to campaign for anyone you so please ? and I believe that is very much the case ? a.) Your email was read as an implication that the ASO was supporting said candidates ? which I don?t think anyone believes ? and the question has been asked in multiple regions to clarify this b.) As a member of the appeal committee ? you have to maintain a position of total neutrality ? this email clearly demonstrates that you are in no way neutral on issues inside the PDP ? since it advocates for the election of co-chairs with no reasons given why ? and requests immediate mobilization to meet ?our strategy?. This email casts serious aspersions on the neutrality of the appeals committee. Furthermore ? can you please clarify to this list ? what exactly is this strategy and who owns this strategy ? you email in this regard was explicit ? there is a strategy ? it is held by multiple individuals outside of the purview of the general community ? and it concerns the placement of members of the board and the PDP ? and I think it is only fair that if lobbying is being done ? it is transparent and open ? and as such ? I would like to know what this strategy is and where it comes from. This email however, was entirely and totally unacceptable in my eyes ? NOT because you lobbied ? I believe as I have said many times that this is your right. It is unacceptable because it implies positions on behalf of other groups who I for one do not believe share that position, it is unacceptable because it is a clear indication of lack of neutrality in a context where neutrality is required, and coming on the heels of what I view as a blatant and unfounded attack on a non-profit foundation ? well ? it really highlights certain things. So again ? myself, and I am sure others, would like to know about this strategy and who ?our? is in the context of ths. Thanks Andrew From: wafa DAHMANI > Date: Wednesday, 3 July 2019 at 18:50 To: Paschal Ochang > Cc: community-discuss > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani Hello All, I can campaign for anyone and its perfectly normal and I was speaking in my personal behalf. I understand that my salutations can be confusing, but I sent this email in my personal capacity. Being a volunteer at ASO - AC does not strip me off my rights to my personal opinions nor does it mean I can not campaign for my preferred candidates. In anycase, the ASO - AC has its own procedures and communication channels. Wafa Dahmani Member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member ________________________________ De: "Paschal Ochang" > ?: "community-discuss" >, "rpd" > Envoy?: Mercredi 3 Juillet 2019 16:09:18 Objet: [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani Hello all, this was posted under the thread of allegations against Larus Foundation so I did the honors of opening it as separate thread so that this two issues can be dealt with separately. This was posted as an allegation towards Wafa and the mail displays a act of lobbying. Can this honorable community be clarified on this allegations please. Dear, My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC. I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates: Board of Directors: North Africa (seat 1) Habin Youssef West Africa (seat 2) Ly Ousmane South Africa (seat 5) Mpisane Vika William East Africa (seat 6) Nkusi Robert Ford Non-regional (seat 7) Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye Election Number Resource Organization Number Council Mustapha Ben Jemaa Election Policy Development Working Group Komi Elitcha Sami Hassan Election Governance Committee Daniel Nanghaka Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy and in order to preserve AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right candidates for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all our efforts and vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for an adequate board the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very simple for all categories except the policy development Working group where we want you to mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates We strongly solicit your support Thank you Wafa Dahmani member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member _______________________________________________ RPD mailing list RPD at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image004.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 47430 bytes Desc: image004.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image006.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 20098 bytes Desc: image006.jpg URL: From amelnaud at gmail.com Thu Jul 4 07:04:08 2019 From: amelnaud at gmail.com (Arnaud AMELINA) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2019 08:04:08 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani In-Reply-To: References: <1596679867.567581.1562168815318.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> <92B8D2EE-27F4-4320-9F5C-C53131E43C7E@liquidtelecom.com> <71CA8E04-00C6-4F6A-B6D6-A9217C0695E5@nftconsult.com> Message-ID: Hi, community and PWG members I noticed that lobbying for votes for afrinic BoD is being used to divert attention from serious issue raised by WAFA. Enough has been said, but I wonder if I should condemn Dewole, Afrinic pdp cochair, campaign for board candidates, using national NOG list and turning AFRINIC board election to nationalism. (*l) let be serious, show maturity and address real issues. (*) http://abuja.forum.org.ng/pipermail/ngnog-discuss/2019-June/005259.html Arnaud On Thu, Jul 4, 2019, 07:30 Andrew Alston wrote: > Badru, > > Yet again ? you have not read my emails. > > *I fully the support the right to lobby in public forms* > > *I fully support the right of any individual to have their say* > > *I fully support the right of any member to change the rules using due > process as defined* > > I have said this, over and over again. I have also been very blunt about > the fact that yes, I have lobbied, and I make no apology for that because I > believe that the right to lobby in the pursuit of ones goals, and I believe > that essentially, elections are political processes and democratic in > nature, and democracy doesn?t work without that aspect of it. > > However, what I fundamentally disagree with ? is misrepresentation of who > we represent ? something I have never done ? and I fundamentally disagree > with people who are in a directly conflicted position taking a stand which > deepens that conflict, especially when the neutrality directly relates to > things that affect this community. > > I will quote from one of the emails I sent ? which was to an email list > containing many members: > > I will quote from two separate emails that I have sent over the years to > lobby in previous elections ? these were sent to email lists that were not > AfriNIC ? they were not sent to individuals unsolicited ? and there are > many on this list who can attest to the accuracy of these emails. > > *Email 1:* > > *I am not going to tell any of you how to vote ? What I tell you above is > my perspective, and yes, its biased towards what I have seen and how well I > know the candidates. What I will say however, is that it is absolutely > critical that the South African members get online and vote ? or show up at > the meeting and vote ? or send proxies ? whichever ? but have your voice > heard. As we move into a time when v4 is running out (AfriNIC is into its > final /8), and when we move into an environment where so much is changing > with that runout ? and particularly when we have managed to turn an > organization around ? we need to ensure that we have strong candidates that > represent the community and can keep the organization alive. Because > without AfriNIC ? without a registry ? we end up in trouble ? and no one > really wants the alternative scenarios.* > > *So what I will ask is, look at the candidates, consider them not from a > geo-political perspective, not from a linguistic perspective, but consider > them on the merits and what they have achieved ? and then vote as you > feel. Their CV?s are all online.* > > *Email 2:* > > *As such, for those of you who are opting to issue proxies and wish to > issue proxies to myself or via myself, this is how I will be voting. Those > of you who are voting electronically, I encourage you when the slate comes > out to study each and every candidate ? but I am confident that what I have > said above will ring true, and I ask every member of this list to get out > there and use your vote, either for one of these candidates or otherwise > one of the others when the slate comes out ? but please, make sure you > vote, either via proxy or via online or in person. I cannot stress how > many critical issues are going to come up in the next year or two, and > without a strong and independent board we could face serious issues.* > > Both emails quote above are a matter of record for the world to see ? and > here is the major difference ? a.) No where do I misrepresent who I am > speaking for b.) I explicitly state ? these are MY views, accept them or > reject them, but ? please vote ? because its important to have your voice > heard. Had Wafa sent an email saying ?Hi, I?m Wafa, and these are my > specific views on each candidate, and this is why I will be voting the way > that I am, and if you like these choices, feel free to vote with me, but if > you don?t, still have your say in the way you see fit?, I would be here, > backing her to the hilt ? however, what I saw was a.) a misrepresentation > by implication of who was represented and b.) a blatant display lacking of > neutrality from the chair of the appeals committee ? particularly in light > of the PDP and the position of co-chair ? and I believe that brings the > integrity and neutrality of said appeals committee into question when it is > critical that trust in that committee remains high, which is why I agree > with Sander when he called for her to step down to maintain the integrity > of the appeals process. > > So ? I see no inconsistency with what I have said in the last 48 hours or > what I have said, or done, over the years. What I do see from you ? yet > again ? is a highly selective reading of what I have said for your own > purposes. > > > > Andrew > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Badru Ntege > *Sent:* Thursday, 4 July 2019 07:03 > *To:* Andrew Alston ; wafa DAHMANI < > wafa at ati.tn>; Paschal Ochang > *Cc:* community-discuss > *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against > Wafa Dahmani > > > > Andrew > > The archives of a number of mailing lists you belong to have many similar > emails authored by you prior to elections. We have also seen emails by you > asking an entire community of ISPA not once but a number of times to act in > a particular way. > > Supporting a particular slate of candidates is not new in AfriNIC nor is > it new any election. > > And when you talk about neutrality ??? its like the Kettle calling the > Pot Black. > > Anyone in our bottom up position is free to lobby for a particular > outcome. > > As a board member you also lobbied and also ferried people to AGMM?s to > strengthen your number of positions. (you have denied this many times so > lets call it a standing allegation) > > The AfriNIC membership time and time have shown their ability to make up > their minds in elections after listening to many different views either > shared on the floor by candidates, in the corridors by supporters on > through email. > > I see nothing wrong here at the moment. > > However, if the community thinks that something has to change we also have > mechanisms in place to make the necessary changes to course correct. > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > [image: signature_1558140432] [image: signature_1470109083] > > > > *From: *Andrew Alston > *Date: *Wednesday, July 3, 2019 at 8:16 PM > *To: *wafa DAHMANI , Paschal Ochang > *Cc: *community-discuss > *Subject: *Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against > Wafa Dahmani > > > > Wafa, > > While I agree you have the right to campaign for anyone you so please ? > and I believe that is very much the case ? > > > > a.) Your email was read as an implication that the ASO was supporting > said candidates ? which I don?t think anyone believes ? and the question > has been asked in multiple regions to clarify this > > b.) As a member of the appeal committee ? you have to maintain a > position of total neutrality ? this email clearly demonstrates that you are > in no way neutral on issues inside the PDP ? since it advocates for the > election of co-chairs with no reasons given why ? and requests immediate > mobilization to meet ?our strategy?. This email casts serious aspersions > on the neutrality of the appeals committee. > > Furthermore ? can you please clarify to this list ? what exactly is this > strategy and who owns this strategy ? you email in this regard was explicit > ? there is a strategy ? it is held by multiple individuals outside of the > purview of the general community ? and it concerns the placement of members > of the board and the PDP ? and I think it is only fair that if lobbying is > being done ? it is transparent and open ? and as such ? I would like to > know what this strategy is and where it comes from. > > This email however, was entirely and totally unacceptable in my eyes ? NOT > because you lobbied ? I believe as I have said many times that this is your > right. It is unacceptable because it implies positions on behalf of other > groups who I for one do not believe share that position, it is unacceptable > because it is a clear indication of lack of neutrality in a context where > neutrality is required, and coming on the heels of what I view as a blatant > and unfounded attack on a non-profit foundation ? well ? it really > highlights certain things. > > So again ? myself, and I am sure others, would like to know about this > strategy and who ?our? is in the context of ths. > > > > Thanks > > > > Andrew > > > > > > *From: *wafa DAHMANI > *Date: *Wednesday, 3 July 2019 at 18:50 > *To: *Paschal Ochang > *Cc: *community-discuss > *Subject: *Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against > Wafa Dahmani > > > > Hello All, > > > > I can campaign for anyone and its perfectly normal and I was speaking in > my personal behalf. > > > > I understand that my salutations can be confusing, but I sent this email > in my personal capacity. > > > > Being a volunteer at ASO - AC does not strip me off my rights to my > personal opinions nor does it mean I can not campaign for my preferred > candidates. > > > > In anycase, the ASO - AC has its own procedures and communication channels. > > > > > > Wafa Dahmani > > > > Member AFRINIC Appeal Committee > > Global IGF MAG member > > ASO / AC excom member > > > ------------------------------ > > *De: *"Paschal Ochang" > *?: *"community-discuss" , "rpd" < > rpd at afrinic.net> > *Envoy?: *Mercredi 3 Juillet 2019 16:09:18 > *Objet: *[rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani > > > > Hello all, this was posted under the thread of allegations against Larus > Foundation so I did the honors of opening it as separate thread so that > this two issues can be dealt with separately. This was posted as an > allegation towards Wafa and the mail displays a act of lobbying. Can this > honorable community be clarified on this allegations please. > > > > Dear, > > > > My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African > community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; > ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC. > > I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates: > > > > Board of Directors: > > North Africa (seat 1) > > > > Habin Youssef > > West Africa (seat 2) > > > > Ly Ousmane > > > > South Africa (seat 5) > > > > Mpisane Vika William > > > > East Africa (seat 6) > > > > Nkusi Robert Ford > > > > Non-regional (seat 7) > > > > Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye > > > > > > > > Election Number Resource Organization Number Council > > > > Mustapha Ben Jemaa > > > > Election Policy Development Working Group > > > > Komi Elitcha > > Sami Hassan > > > > Election Governance Committee > > > > Daniel Nanghaka > > Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy and in order to > preserve AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right > candidates for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all > our efforts and vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for > an adequate board > > > > the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very > simple for all categories except the policy development Working group where > we want you to mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates > > We strongly solicit your support > > > > Thank you > > > > Wafa Dahmani > > > > member AFRINIC Appeal Committee > > Global IGF MAG member > > ASO / AC excom member > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > RPD mailing list > RPD at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image006.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 20098 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jordi.palet at consulintel.es Thu Jul 4 07:23:19 2019 From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ) Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2019 09:23:19 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani In-Reply-To: References: <1596679867.567581.1562168815318.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> <92B8D2EE-27F4-4320-9F5C-C53131E43C7E@liquidtelecom.com> <71CA8E04-00C6-4F6A-B6D6-A9217C0695E5@nftconsult.com> Message-ID: Hi Arnaud, I?m very happy that you send this email, because it addresses what I?m saying. Note that I was not aware of that before, but looks good to me (I look to the email on 6th of June), the other one is just congratulating about the results. It is a public email, not private, even anyone can subscribe to that mailing list and look at the archives. It is in the scope being a NOG, where all the participants may have a voice about how they want to drive Afrinic. It is imploring for voting and is informing that there are two candidates from Nigeria and suggesting they are good candidates. Dewole doesn?t mention anything about his position as co-chair, so it is an open and transparent (no confusion possible) message. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 4/7/19 9:08, "Arnaud AMELINA" escribi?: Hi, community and PWG members I noticed that lobbying for votes for afrinic BoD is being used to divert attention from serious issue raised by WAFA. Enough has been said, but I wonder if I should condemn Dewole, Afrinic pdp cochair, campaign for board candidates, using national NOG list and turning AFRINIC board election to nationalism. (*l) let be serious, show maturity and address real issues. (*) http://abuja.forum.org.ng/pipermail/ngnog-discuss/2019-June/005259.html Arnaud On Thu, Jul 4, 2019, 07:30 Andrew Alston wrote: Badru, Yet again ? you have not read my emails. I fully the support the right to lobby in public forms I fully support the right of any individual to have their say I fully support the right of any member to change the rules using due process as defined I have said this, over and over again. I have also been very blunt about the fact that yes, I have lobbied, and I make no apology for that because I believe that the right to lobby in the pursuit of ones goals, and I believe that essentially, elections are political processes and democratic in nature, and democracy doesn?t work without that aspect of it. However, what I fundamentally disagree with ? is misrepresentation of who we represent ? something I have never done ? and I fundamentally disagree with people who are in a directly conflicted position taking a stand which deepens that conflict, especially when the neutrality directly relates to things that affect this community. I will quote from one of the emails I sent ? which was to an email list containing many members: I will quote from two separate emails that I have sent over the years to lobby in previous elections ? these were sent to email lists that were not AfriNIC ? they were not sent to individuals unsolicited ? and there are many on this list who can attest to the accuracy of these emails. Email 1: I am not going to tell any of you how to vote ? What I tell you above is my perspective, and yes, its biased towards what I have seen and how well I know the candidates. What I will say however, is that it is absolutely critical that the South African members get online and vote ? or show up at the meeting and vote ? or send proxies ? whichever ? but have your voice heard. As we move into a time when v4 is running out (AfriNIC is into its final /8), and when we move into an environment where so much is changing with that runout ? and particularly when we have managed to turn an organization around ? we need to ensure that we have strong candidates that represent the community and can keep the organization alive. Because without AfriNIC ? without a registry ? we end up in trouble ? and no one really wants the alternative scenarios. So what I will ask is, look at the candidates, consider them not from a geo-political perspective, not from a linguistic perspective, but consider them on the merits and what they have achieved ? and then vote as you feel. Their CV?s are all online. Email 2: As such, for those of you who are opting to issue proxies and wish to issue proxies to myself or via myself, this is how I will be voting. Those of you who are voting electronically, I encourage you when the slate comes out to study each and every candidate ? but I am confident that what I have said above will ring true, and I ask every member of this list to get out there and use your vote, either for one of these candidates or otherwise one of the others when the slate comes out ? but please, make sure you vote, either via proxy or via online or in person. I cannot stress how many critical issues are going to come up in the next year or two, and without a strong and independent board we could face serious issues. Both emails quote above are a matter of record for the world to see ? and here is the major difference ? a.) No where do I misrepresent who I am speaking for b.) I explicitly state ? these are MY views, accept them or reject them, but ? please vote ? because its important to have your voice heard. Had Wafa sent an email saying ?Hi, I?m Wafa, and these are my specific views on each candidate, and this is why I will be voting the way that I am, and if you like these choices, feel free to vote with me, but if you don?t, still have your say in the way you see fit?, I would be here, backing her to the hilt ? however, what I saw was a.) a misrepresentation by implication of who was represented and b.) a blatant display lacking of neutrality from the chair of the appeals committee ? particularly in light of the PDP and the position of co-chair ? and I believe that brings the integrity and neutrality of said appeals committee into question when it is critical that trust in that committee remains high, which is why I agree with Sander when he called for her to step down to maintain the integrity of the appeals process. So ? I see no inconsistency with what I have said in the last 48 hours or what I have said, or done, over the years. What I do see from you ? yet again ? is a highly selective reading of what I have said for your own purposes. Andrew From: Badru Ntege Sent: Thursday, 4 July 2019 07:03 To: Andrew Alston ; wafa DAHMANI ; Paschal Ochang Cc: community-discuss Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani Andrew The archives of a number of mailing lists you belong to have many similar emails authored by you prior to elections. We have also seen emails by you asking an entire community of ISPA not once but a number of times to act in a particular way. Supporting a particular slate of candidates is not new in AfriNIC nor is it new any election. And when you talk about neutrality ??? its like the Kettle calling the Pot Black. Anyone in our bottom up position is free to lobby for a particular outcome. As a board member you also lobbied and also ferried people to AGMM?s to strengthen your number of positions. (you have denied this many times so lets call it a standing allegation) The AfriNIC membership time and time have shown their ability to make up their minds in elections after listening to many different views either shared on the floor by candidates, in the corridors by supporters on through email. I see nothing wrong here at the moment. However, if the community thinks that something has to change we also have mechanisms in place to make the necessary changes to course correct. Regards From: Andrew Alston Date: Wednesday, July 3, 2019 at 8:16 PM To: wafa DAHMANI , Paschal Ochang Cc: community-discuss Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani Wafa, While I agree you have the right to campaign for anyone you so please ? and I believe that is very much the case ? a.) Your email was read as an implication that the ASO was supporting said candidates ? which I don?t think anyone believes ? and the question has been asked in multiple regions to clarify this b.) As a member of the appeal committee ? you have to maintain a position of total neutrality ? this email clearly demonstrates that you are in no way neutral on issues inside the PDP ? since it advocates for the election of co-chairs with no reasons given why ? and requests immediate mobilization to meet ?our strategy?. This email casts serious aspersions on the neutrality of the appeals committee. Furthermore ? can you please clarify to this list ? what exactly is this strategy and who owns this strategy ? you email in this regard was explicit ? there is a strategy ? it is held by multiple individuals outside of the purview of the general community ? and it concerns the placement of members of the board and the PDP ? and I think it is only fair that if lobbying is being done ? it is transparent and open ? and as such ? I would like to know what this strategy is and where it comes from. This email however, was entirely and totally unacceptable in my eyes ? NOT because you lobbied ? I believe as I have said many times that this is your right. It is unacceptable because it implies positions on behalf of other groups who I for one do not believe share that position, it is unacceptable because it is a clear indication of lack of neutrality in a context where neutrality is required, and coming on the heels of what I view as a blatant and unfounded attack on a non-profit foundation ? well ? it really highlights certain things. So again ? myself, and I am sure others, would like to know about this strategy and who ?our? is in the context of ths. Thanks Andrew From: wafa DAHMANI Date: Wednesday, 3 July 2019 at 18:50 To: Paschal Ochang Cc: community-discuss Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani Hello All, I can campaign for anyone and its perfectly normal and I was speaking in my personal behalf. I understand that my salutations can be confusing, but I sent this email in my personal capacity. Being a volunteer at ASO - AC does not strip me off my rights to my personal opinions nor does it mean I can not campaign for my preferred candidates. In anycase, the ASO - AC has its own procedures and communication channels. Wafa Dahmani Member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member De: "Paschal Ochang" ?: "community-discuss" , "rpd" Envoy?: Mercredi 3 Juillet 2019 16:09:18 Objet: [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani Hello all, this was posted under the thread of allegations against Larus Foundation so I did the honors of opening it as separate thread so that this two issues can be dealt with separately. This was posted as an allegation towards Wafa and the mail displays a act of lobbying. Can this honorable community be clarified on this allegations please. Dear, My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC. I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates: Board of Directors: North Africa (seat 1) Habin Youssef West Africa (seat 2) Ly Ousmane South Africa (seat 5) Mpisane Vika William East Africa (seat 6) Nkusi Robert Ford Non-regional (seat 7) Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye Election Number Resource Organization Number Council Mustapha Ben Jemaa Election Policy Development Working Group Komi Elitcha Sami Hassan Election Governance Committee Daniel Nanghaka Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy and in order to preserve AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right candidates for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all our efforts and vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for an adequate board the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very simple for all categories except the policy development Working group where we want you to mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates We strongly solicit your support Thank you Wafa Dahmani member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member _______________________________________________ RPD mailing list RPD at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ahmed.fadl at 57357.org Thu Jul 4 07:28:46 2019 From: ahmed.fadl at 57357.org (Ahmed Fadl) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2019 07:28:46 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: References: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com>, Message-ID: Thank you Sami for your introduction Let me also introduce myself My name is Ahmed Fadl, I'm working in healthcare nonprofit organization called children cancer hospital Egypt (57357), it is curing our patients with free of charge, my role is healthcare applications director. Our hospital is one of the biggest hospital in the world in this specializations. Also I'm responsible for the IP pools of our organization so I joined Afrinic community. My point from my mail is we have to know the plan and strategy for every person before we vote for them. I noticed that all the list by Wafaa from the same region why? I don't know The characteristics of the board members should include diversification because we need all Africa regions to take all benefits and increase all regions knowledge and skills. This is what I mean by my mail. Finally welcome everyone has good plan for developing my country and all African countries. Also all respect for community members. Thank you From: Sami Salih [mailto:sami.salih at outlook.com] Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 6:14 AM To: Noah ; Ahmed Fadl Cc: Community-Discuss at afrinic.net; wafa Dahmani Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Salam I hope you reply Ahmed, since we have very bad experience with unknown fellows who come once to raise suspicious issue then disappear ! Looking for your positive continuous engagement. BR Dr. Sami H.O. Salih Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST Head of R&D, NTC, SUDAN President of SDv6TF T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 ________________________________ From: Noah > Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 1:41 AM To: Ahmed Fadl Cc: Community-Discuss at afrinic.net; wafa Dahmani Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Dear Ahmed First and foremost, welcome on-board this community mailing list since I am seeing you post for the first time ever and I hope you will continue to engage in various discussions as a member of the community now. So, I have been catching up with email and I would like to also contribute to the discussion by stating a few things in reference to people being biased in general. Let me introduce myself first. I personally work for AS37100 a member of AfriNIC, I was popularly elected by the community as a volunteer to the AfriNIC ASO - AC and my term ends next year in 2020, I am a secretary general of an ISP association in my country of residence, and I am generally involved within the AFRICAN internet community as a volunteer with various non-profit organizations because voluntary work is fulfilling. However, whatever I say here often is from a personal point of view unless I state otherwise. I am telling you all this because, with all my years of engagement in this community, I have always spoken in my own personal capacity that is why I use my own personal email address. Nothing I say is ever a representation of any of the organization I am affiliated with, though so often, my affiliations have been used by some members of this community to attack my personal character, sometime as far as going after my employment just because of my personal views on various matters pertaining the African Internet Community. What I am trying to say is that, Wafa as a community member, just like me, so often speaks on her own personal capacity and I believe she has since clarified this to you and the community. Therefore, I doubt its "bias"as you put it ...... and my view of that email from her to you is basically an elections campaign for a candidate and candidates of her choice and in the end, her efforts seems to have paid off as some of the candidate she was supporting for the Northern Africa seat Dr.Habib ended up getting the highest votes ever of all candidates in the entire board elections. I was on the ground in Kampala and Habib did well also in terms of campaigning, so did other candidates and I can understand why he was Wafa's choice and and her strategy for the Northern Africa candidate for board election did indeed work. That is what good mobilization in campaigns does. In fact just in the same elections, there was a very well coordinated campaign that involved among other things, mudslinging of a specific candidate by some members of the various constituencies within the community and this also perfectly OK. Folks can go as far as using print media and sometime private lobbying through mailing lists and chat rooms. Its the nature of politicking and campaigns are tough and sometimes they get ugly, after all, not all candidates are supposed to be liked by the entire electorate yet politicking still goes on. This is basically pure politics 101 and its perfectly acceptable and normal and as they say, politics is part of daily life and so many of us in this community have been party to this and its nothing new. I submit to you that, being a member of, say, the AfriNIC appeals committee, or ASO-AC or GC ...you name it, does not stop someone from having their own subjective views nor does it stop them from being involved in community politics at a personal level. Remember above and beyond, we are all part of the Internet community before our various affiliations and after being party to these affiliations, we continue to be members of the internet community and remain in this community. What really matters is respect for each other and how we treat each other even when we disagree because in the end, its through this politics that we progress as we continue to individually contribute, improve and resolve some of our challenges. Cheers and I look forward to more engagement with you Mr.Ahmed. Noah On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 2:17 PM Ahmed Fadl > wrote: Hi Wafa, Thanks for your email. I, among other members of AFRINIC in Egypt, received the following email from you many times. I wondered at that time why should I vote for these candidates specially for those in Eastern and Southern regions while each one was the sole candidate in his region. I quote this from your email "Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy ...." what is your strategy and who are you ? If you are talking about biasing the community, So, do you consider your email as a "member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC." fall under what ? I sent this mail many time but I don't know why I can't find this mail on community Thanks, Ahmed Fadl From: wafa Dahmani [mailto:wafatn7604 at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 1:05 PM To: wafa Dahmani > Subject: AFRINIC Borad Elections Dear, My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC. I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates: Board of Directors: North Africa (seat 1) * Habin Youssef West Africa (seat 2) * Ly Ousmane South Africa (seat 5) * Mpisane Vika William East Africa (seat 6) * Nkusi Robert Ford Non-regional (seat 7) * Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye Election Number Resource Organization Number Council * Mustapha Ben Jemaa Election Policy Development Working Group * Komi Elitcha * Sami Hassan Election Governance Committee * Daniel Nanghaka Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy and in order to preserve AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right candidates for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all our efforts and vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for an adequate board the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very simple for all categories except the policy development Working group where we want you to mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates We strongly solicit your support Thank you Wafa Dahmani member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dewole at forum.org.ng Thu Jul 4 07:32:46 2019 From: dewole at forum.org.ng (Dewole Ajao) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2019 08:32:46 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani In-Reply-To: References: <1596679867.567581.1562168815318.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> <92B8D2EE-27F4-4320-9F5C-C53131E43C7E@liquidtelecom.com> <71CA8E04-00C6-4F6A-B6D6-A9217C0695E5@nftconsult.com> Message-ID: <5A2A618B-60AA-4007-8896-04DC9BC23A7C@forum.org.ng> Arnaud, I was waiting till the weekend to read the emails you all are sending back and forth as I?m busy training engineers here in my nation but my attention was just brought to this email. Thanks for highlighting the work I?m doing to get people in my circle to elect directors, get IP resources, properly number their networks, and play active roles in policy making and member discussions. Your email started out like it was from a well-meaning person with the the intention to stop a ? diversion of attention from serious issues? but it ended in a very pitiful attempt to sling mud at me. Feel free to bring up whatever is giving you a belly ache. I?m sure everyone can read the ngNOG archives and make up their minds. Dewole. (who is not actively following this or any of the currently active threads) Sent with thumbs from a mobile device. Pelase exsuce typos adn errosr. > Le 4 juil. 2019 ? 08:04, Arnaud AMELINA a ?crit : > > Hi, community and PWG members > > I noticed that lobbying for votes for afrinic BoD is being used to divert attention from serious issue raised by WAFA. Enough has been said, but I wonder if I should condemn Dewole, Afrinic pdp cochair, campaign for board candidates, using national NOG list and turning AFRINIC board election to nationalism. (*l) > let be serious, show maturity and address real issues. > > > (*) http://abuja.forum.org.ng/pipermail/ngnog-discuss/2019-June/005259.html > > Arnaud > >> On Thu, Jul 4, 2019, 07:30 Andrew Alston wrote: >> Badru, >> >> Yet again ? you have not read my emails. >> >> I fully the support the right to lobby in public forms >> >> I fully support the right of any individual to have their say >> >> I fully support the right of any member to change the rules using due process as defined >> >> I have said this, over and over again. I have also been very blunt about the fact that yes, I have lobbied, and I make no apology for that because I believe that the right to lobby in the pursuit of ones goals, and I believe that essentially, elections are political processes and democratic in nature, and democracy doesn?t work without that aspect of it. >> >> However, what I fundamentally disagree with ? is misrepresentation of who we represent ? something I have never done ? and I fundamentally disagree with people who are in a directly conflicted position taking a stand which deepens that conflict, especially when the neutrality directly relates to things that affect this community. >> >> I will quote from one of the emails I sent ? which was to an email list containing many members: >> >> I will quote from two separate emails that I have sent over the years to lobby in previous elections ? these were sent to email lists that were not AfriNIC ? they were not sent to individuals unsolicited ? and there are many on this list who can attest to the accuracy of these emails. >> >> Email 1: >> >> I am not going to tell any of you how to vote ? What I tell you above is my perspective, and yes, its biased towards what I have seen and how well I know the candidates. What I will say however, is that it is absolutely critical that the South African members get online and vote ? or show up at the meeting and vote ? or send proxies ? whichever ? but have your voice heard. As we move into a time when v4 is running out (AfriNIC is into its final /8), and when we move into an environment where so much is changing with that runout ? and particularly when we have managed to turn an organization around ? we need to ensure that we have strong candidates that represent the community and can keep the organization alive. Because without AfriNIC ? without a registry ? we end up in trouble ? and no one really wants the alternative scenarios. >> >> So what I will ask is, look at the candidates, consider them not from a geo-political perspective, not from a linguistic perspective, but consider them on the merits and what they have achieved ? and then vote as you feel. Their CV?s are all online. >> >> Email 2: >> >> As such, for those of you who are opting to issue proxies and wish to issue proxies to myself or via myself, this is how I will be voting. Those of you who are voting electronically, I encourage you when the slate comes out to study each and every candidate ? but I am confident that what I have said above will ring true, and I ask every member of this list to get out there and use your vote, either for one of these candidates or otherwise one of the others when the slate comes out ? but please, make sure you vote, either via proxy or via online or in person. I cannot stress how many critical issues are going to come up in the next year or two, and without a strong and independent board we could face serious issues. >> >> Both emails quote above are a matter of record for the world to see ? and here is the major difference ? a.) No where do I misrepresent who I am speaking for b.) I explicitly state ? these are MY views, accept them or reject them, but ? please vote ? because its important to have your voice heard. Had Wafa sent an email saying ?Hi, I?m Wafa, and these are my specific views on each candidate, and this is why I will be voting the way that I am, and if you like these choices, feel free to vote with me, but if you don?t, still have your say in the way you see fit?, I would be here, backing her to the hilt ? however, what I saw was a.) a misrepresentation by implication of who was represented and b.) a blatant display lacking of neutrality from the chair of the appeals committee ? particularly in light of the PDP and the position of co-chair ? and I believe that brings the integrity and neutrality of said appeals committee into question when it is critical that trust in that committee remains high, which is why I agree with Sander when he called for her to step down to maintain the integrity of the appeals process. >> >> So ? I see no inconsistency with what I have said in the last 48 hours or what I have said, or done, over the years. What I do see from you ? yet again ? is a highly selective reading of what I have said for your own purposes. >> >> >> >> Andrew >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: Badru Ntege >> Sent: Thursday, 4 July 2019 07:03 >> To: Andrew Alston ; wafa DAHMANI ; Paschal Ochang >> Cc: community-discuss >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani >> >> >> Andrew >> >> The archives of a number of mailing lists you belong to have many similar emails authored by you prior to elections. We have also seen emails by you asking an entire community of ISPA not once but a number of times to act in a particular way. >> >> Supporting a particular slate of candidates is not new in AfriNIC nor is it new any election. >> >> And when you talk about neutrality ??? its like the Kettle calling the Pot Black. >> >> Anyone in our bottom up position is free to lobby for a particular outcome. >> >> As a board member you also lobbied and also ferried people to AGMM?s to strengthen your number of positions. (you have denied this many times so lets call it a standing allegation) >> >> The AfriNIC membership time and time have shown their ability to make up their minds in elections after listening to many different views either shared on the floor by candidates, in the corridors by supporters on through email. >> >> I see nothing wrong here at the moment. >> >> However, if the community thinks that something has to change we also have mechanisms in place to make the necessary changes to course correct. >> >> Regards >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: Andrew Alston >> Date: Wednesday, July 3, 2019 at 8:16 PM >> To: wafa DAHMANI , Paschal Ochang >> Cc: community-discuss >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani >> >> >> >> Wafa, >> >> While I agree you have the right to campaign for anyone you so please ? and I believe that is very much the case ? >> >> >> >> a.) Your email was read as an implication that the ASO was supporting said candidates ? which I don?t think anyone believes ? and the question has been asked in multiple regions to clarify this >> >> b.) As a member of the appeal committee ? you have to maintain a position of total neutrality ? this email clearly demonstrates that you are in no way neutral on issues inside the PDP ? since it advocates for the election of co-chairs with no reasons given why ? and requests immediate mobilization to meet ?our strategy?. This email casts serious aspersions on the neutrality of the appeals committee. >> >> Furthermore ? can you please clarify to this list ? what exactly is this strategy and who owns this strategy ? you email in this regard was explicit ? there is a strategy ? it is held by multiple individuals outside of the purview of the general community ? and it concerns the placement of members of the board and the PDP ? and I think it is only fair that if lobbying is being done ? it is transparent and open ? and as such ? I would like to know what this strategy is and where it comes from. >> >> This email however, was entirely and totally unacceptable in my eyes ? NOT because you lobbied ? I believe as I have said many times that this is your right. It is unacceptable because it implies positions on behalf of other groups who I for one do not believe share that position, it is unacceptable because it is a clear indication of lack of neutrality in a context where neutrality is required, and coming on the heels of what I view as a blatant and unfounded attack on a non-profit foundation ? well ? it really highlights certain things. >> >> So again ? myself, and I am sure others, would like to know about this strategy and who ?our? is in the context of ths. >> >> >> >> Thanks >> >> >> >> Andrew >> >> >> >> >> >> From: wafa DAHMANI >> Date: Wednesday, 3 July 2019 at 18:50 >> To: Paschal Ochang >> Cc: community-discuss >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani >> >> >> >> Hello All, >> >> I can campaign for anyone and its perfectly normal and I was speaking in my personal behalf. >> >> I understand that my salutations can be confusing, but I sent this email in my personal capacity. >> >> Being a volunteer at ASO - AC does not strip me off my rights to my personal opinions nor does it mean I can not campaign for my preferred candidates. >> >> In anycase, the ASO - AC has its own procedures and communication channels. >> >> >> Wafa Dahmani >> >> Member AFRINIC Appeal Committee >> Global IGF MAG member >> ASO / AC excom member >> >> De: "Paschal Ochang" >> ?: "community-discuss" , "rpd" >> Envoy?: Mercredi 3 Juillet 2019 16:09:18 >> Objet: [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani >> >> Hello all, this was posted under the thread of allegations against Larus Foundation so I did the honors of opening it as separate thread so that this two issues can be dealt with separately. This was posted as an allegation towards Wafa and the mail displays a act of lobbying. Can this honorable community be clarified on this allegations please. >> >> Dear, >> >> My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC. >> I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates: >> >> Board of Directors: >> North Africa (seat 1) >> >> Habin Youssef >> West Africa (seat 2) >> >> Ly Ousmane >> >> South Africa (seat 5) >> >> Mpisane Vika William >> >> East Africa (seat 6) >> >> Nkusi Robert Ford >> >> Non-regional (seat 7) >> >> Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye >> >> >> >> Election Number Resource Organization Number Council >> >> Mustapha Ben Jemaa >> >> Election Policy Development Working Group >> >> Komi Elitcha >> Sami Hassan >> >> Election Governance Committee >> >> Daniel Nanghaka >> Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy and in order to preserve AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right candidates for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all our efforts and vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for an adequate board >> >> the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very simple for all categories except the policy development Working group where we want you to mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates >> We strongly solicit your support >> >> Thank you >> >> Wafa Dahmani >> >> member AFRINIC Appeal Committee >> Global IGF MAG member >> ASO / AC excom member >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> RPD mailing list >> RPD at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image004.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 47430 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image006.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 20098 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sami.salih at outlook.com Thu Jul 4 07:47:20 2019 From: sami.salih at outlook.com (Sami Salih) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2019 07:47:20 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: References: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com>, , Message-ID: Shokran Ahmed for showing up, welcome to AFRINIC community. you said: I noticed that all the list by Wafaa from the same region why? I don?t know If I understand your sentence correctly, I have to tell you that AFRINIC board is 9 seats (6 Regional, 2 Non-Regional, and the CEO). for more details please visit AFRINIC Governance portal https://afrinic.net/board hope this help clarifying the issue. Dr. Sami H.O. Salih Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST Head of R&D, NTC, SUDAN President of SDv6TF T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 ________________________________ From: Ahmed Fadl Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 10:28 AM To: Sami Salih; Noah Cc: Community-Discuss at afrinic.net; wafa Dahmani Subject: RE: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Thank you Sami for your introduction Let me also introduce myself My name is Ahmed Fadl, I?m working in healthcare nonprofit organization called children cancer hospital Egypt (57357), it is curing our patients with free of charge, my role is healthcare applications director. Our hospital is one of the biggest hospital in the world in this specializations. Also I?m responsible for the IP pools of our organization so I joined Afrinic community. My point from my mail is we have to know the plan and strategy for every person before we vote for them. I noticed that all the list by Wafaa from the same region why? I don?t know The characteristics of the board members should include diversification because we need all Africa regions to take all benefits and increase all regions knowledge and skills. This is what I mean by my mail. Finally welcome everyone has good plan for developing my country and all African countries. Also all respect for community members. Thank you From: Sami Salih [mailto:sami.salih at outlook.com] Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 6:14 AM To: Noah ; Ahmed Fadl Cc: Community-Discuss at afrinic.net; wafa Dahmani Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Salam I hope you reply Ahmed, since we have very bad experience with unknown fellows who come once to raise suspicious issue then disappear ! Looking for your positive continuous engagement. BR Dr. Sami H.O. Salih Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST Head of R&D, NTC, SUDAN President of SDv6TF T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 ________________________________ From: Noah > Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 1:41 AM To: Ahmed Fadl Cc: Community-Discuss at afrinic.net; wafa Dahmani Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Dear Ahmed First and foremost, welcome on-board this community mailing list since I am seeing you post for the first time ever and I hope you will continue to engage in various discussions as a member of the community now. So, I have been catching up with email and I would like to also contribute to the discussion by stating a few things in reference to people being biased in general. Let me introduce myself first. I personally work for AS37100 a member of AfriNIC, I was popularly elected by the community as a volunteer to the AfriNIC ASO - AC and my term ends next year in 2020, I am a secretary general of an ISP association in my country of residence, and I am generally involved within the AFRICAN internet community as a volunteer with various non-profit organizations because voluntary work is fulfilling. However, whatever I say here often is from a personal point of view unless I state otherwise. I am telling you all this because, with all my years of engagement in this community, I have always spoken in my own personal capacity that is why I use my own personal email address. Nothing I say is ever a representation of any of the organization I am affiliated with, though so often, my affiliations have been used by some members of this community to attack my personal character, sometime as far as going after my employment just because of my personal views on various matters pertaining the African Internet Community. What I am trying to say is that, Wafa as a community member, just like me, so often speaks on her own personal capacity and I believe she has since clarified this to you and the community. Therefore, I doubt its "bias"as you put it ...... and my view of that email from her to you is basically an elections campaign for a candidate and candidates of her choice and in the end, her efforts seems to have paid off as some of the candidate she was supporting for the Northern Africa seat Dr.Habib ended up getting the highest votes ever of all candidates in the entire board elections. I was on the ground in Kampala and Habib did well also in terms of campaigning, so did other candidates and I can understand why he was Wafa's choice and and her strategy for the Northern Africa candidate for board election did indeed work. That is what good mobilization in campaigns does. In fact just in the same elections, there was a very well coordinated campaign that involved among other things, mudslinging of a specific candidate by some members of the various constituencies within the community and this also perfectly OK. Folks can go as far as using print media and sometime private lobbying through mailing lists and chat rooms. Its the nature of politicking and campaigns are tough and sometimes they get ugly, after all, not all candidates are supposed to be liked by the entire electorate yet politicking still goes on. This is basically pure politics 101 and its perfectly acceptable and normal and as they say, politics is part of daily life and so many of us in this community have been party to this and its nothing new. I submit to you that, being a member of, say, the AfriNIC appeals committee, or ASO-AC or GC ...you name it, does not stop someone from having their own subjective views nor does it stop them from being involved in community politics at a personal level. Remember above and beyond, we are all part of the Internet community before our various affiliations and after being party to these affiliations, we continue to be members of the internet community and remain in this community. What really matters is respect for each other and how we treat each other even when we disagree because in the end, its through this politics that we progress as we continue to individually contribute, improve and resolve some of our challenges. Cheers and I look forward to more engagement with you Mr.Ahmed. Noah On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 2:17 PM Ahmed Fadl > wrote: Hi Wafa, Thanks for your email. I, among other members of AFRINIC in Egypt, received the following email from you many times. I wondered at that time why should I vote for these candidates specially for those in Eastern and Southern regions while each one was the sole candidate in his region. I quote this from your email "Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy ...." what is your strategy and who are you ? If you are talking about biasing the community, So, do you consider your email as a "member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC." fall under what ? I sent this mail many time but I don?t know why I can?t find this mail on community Thanks, Ahmed Fadl From: wafa Dahmani [mailto:wafatn7604 at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 1:05 PM To: wafa Dahmani > Subject: AFRINIC Borad Elections Dear, My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC. I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates: Board of Directors: North Africa (seat 1) * Habin Youssef West Africa (seat 2) * Ly Ousmane South Africa (seat 5) * Mpisane Vika William East Africa (seat 6) * Nkusi Robert Ford Non-regional (seat 7) * Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye Election Number Resource Organization Number Council * Mustapha Ben Jemaa Election Policy Development Working Group * Komi Elitcha * Sami Hassan Election Governance Committee * Daniel Nanghaka Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy and in order to preserve AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right candidates for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all our efforts and vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for an adequate board the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very simple for all categories except the policy development Working group where we want you to mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates We strongly solicit your support Thank you Wafa Dahmani member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sami.salih at outlook.com Thu Jul 4 07:51:11 2019 From: sami.salih at outlook.com (Sami Salih) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2019 07:51:11 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: References: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com> , <784191FB-9315-4D1A-9C90-E565F89C08A1@steffann.nl> , , Message-ID: Andrew Just a reminder, Please share the link Dr. Sami H.O. Salih Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST Head of R&D, NTC, SUDAN President of SDv6TF T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 ________________________________ From: Sami Salih Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2019 4:54 PM To: Andrew Alston; Sander Steffann Cc: Sander Steffann; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net; Ahmed Fadl; wafa Dahmani Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Could you please share the link Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Andrew Alston Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2019 4:52:10 PM To: Sami Salih; Sander Steffann Cc: Sander Steffann; Ahmed Fadl; wafa Dahmani; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: RE: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Sami, Do yourself a favor ? and go and read up on the doctrine of apparent authority. It makes for some fascinating reading ? particularly the case law in various jurisdictions about email domains and email signatures. I?ll let you draw your own conclusions from what you find, keeping in mind I?m no lawyer ? but I do have an interest in this stuff ? and reading material was? very interesting ?? Thanks Andrew From: Sami Salih Sent: Wednesday, 3 July 2019 16:33 To: Sander Steffann Cc: Sander Steffann ; Andrew Alston ; Ahmed Fadl ; wafa Dahmani ; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections So wafa use her public email too :-) Get Outlook for Android ________________________________ From: Sander Steffann > Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2019 4:27:55 PM To: Sami Salih Cc: Sander Steffann; Andrew Alston; Ahmed Fadl; wafa Dahmani; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Hi Sami, > I'm using a public email (outlook.com) not my official one (sustech.sd), however my signature is MY signature I use it to show the people the ground where I stand when I say something. Exactly. Sander -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jordi.palet at consulintel.es Thu Jul 4 07:59:41 2019 From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ) Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2019 09:59:41 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: References: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com> Message-ID: <0911A471-DF02-49FF-96FE-2A9AC32D5BC1@consulintel.es> Hi Ahmed, Can you confirm if you have provided your email to Wafa and if that?s the case, if it was for discussing about candidates? Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 4/7/19 9:32, "Ahmed Fadl" escribi?: Thank you Sami for your introduction Let me also introduce myself My name is Ahmed Fadl, I?m working in healthcare nonprofit organization called children cancer hospital Egypt (57357), it is curing our patients with free of charge, my role is healthcare applications director. Our hospital is one of the biggest hospital in the world in this specializations. Also I?m responsible for the IP pools of our organization so I joined Afrinic community. My point from my mail is we have to know the plan and strategy for every person before we vote for them. I noticed that all the list by Wafaa from the same region why? I don?t know The characteristics of the board members should include diversification because we need all Africa regions to take all benefits and increase all regions knowledge and skills. This is what I mean by my mail. Finally welcome everyone has good plan for developing my country and all African countries. Also all respect for community members. Thank you From: Sami Salih [mailto:sami.salih at outlook.com] Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 6:14 AM To: Noah ; Ahmed Fadl Cc: Community-Discuss at afrinic.net; wafa Dahmani Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Salam I hope you reply Ahmed, since we have very bad experience with unknown fellows who come once to raise suspicious issue then disappear ! Looking for your positive continuous engagement. BR Dr. Sami H.O. Salih Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST Head of R&D, NTC, SUDAN President of SDv6TF T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 From: Noah Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 1:41 AM To: Ahmed Fadl Cc: Community-Discuss at afrinic.net; wafa Dahmani Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Dear Ahmed First and foremost, welcome on-board this community mailing list since I am seeing you post for the first time ever and I hope you will continue to engage in various discussions as a member of the community now. So, I have been catching up with email and I would like to also contribute to the discussion by stating a few things in reference to people being biased in general. Let me introduce myself first. I personally work for AS37100 a member of AfriNIC, I was popularly elected by the community as a volunteer to the AfriNIC ASO - AC and my term ends next year in 2020, I am a secretary general of an ISP association in my country of residence, and I am generally involved within the AFRICAN internet community as a volunteer with various non-profit organizations because voluntary work is fulfilling. However, whatever I say here often is from a personal point of view unless I state otherwise. I am telling you all this because, with all my years of engagement in this community, I have always spoken in my own personal capacity that is why I use my own personal email address. Nothing I say is ever a representation of any of the organization I am affiliated with, though so often, my affiliations have been used by some members of this community to attack my personal character, sometime as far as going after my employment just because of my personal views on various matters pertaining the African Internet Community. What I am trying to say is that, Wafa as a community member, just like me, so often speaks on her own personal capacity and I believe she has since clarified this to you and the community. Therefore, I doubt its "bias"as you put it ...... and my view of that email from her to you is basically an elections campaign for a candidate and candidates of her choice and in the end, her efforts seems to have paid off as some of the candidate she was supporting for the Northern Africa seat Dr.Habib ended up getting the highest votes ever of all candidates in the entire board elections. I was on the ground in Kampala and Habib did well also in terms of campaigning, so did other candidates and I can understand why he was Wafa's choice and and her strategy for the Northern Africa candidate for board election did indeed work. That is what good mobilization in campaigns does. In fact just in the same elections, there was a very well coordinated campaign that involved among other things, mudslinging of a specific candidate by some members of the various constituencies within the community and this also perfectly OK. Folks can go as far as using print media and sometime private lobbying through mailing lists and chat rooms. Its the nature of politicking and campaigns are tough and sometimes they get ugly, after all, not all candidates are supposed to be liked by the entire electorate yet politicking still goes on. This is basically pure politics 101 and its perfectly acceptable and normal and as they say, politics is part of daily life and so many of us in this community have been party to this and its nothing new. I submit to you that, being a member of, say, the AfriNIC appeals committee, or ASO-AC or GC ...you name it, does not stop someone from having their own subjective views nor does it stop them from being involved in community politics at a personal level. Remember above and beyond, we are all part of the Internet community before our various affiliations and after being party to these affiliations, we continue to be members of the internet community and remain in this community. What really matters is respect for each other and how we treat each other even when we disagree because in the end, its through this politics that we progress as we continue to individually contribute, improve and resolve some of our challenges. Cheers and I look forward to more engagement with you Mr.Ahmed. Noah On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 2:17 PM Ahmed Fadl wrote: Hi Wafa, Thanks for your email. I, among other members of AFRINIC in Egypt, received the following email from you many times. I wondered at that time why should I vote for these candidates specially for those in Eastern and Southern regions while each one was the sole candidate in his region. I quote this from your email "Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy ...." what is your strategy and who are you ? If you are talking about biasing the community, So, do you consider your email as a "member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC." fall under what ? I sent this mail many time but I don?t know why I can?t find this mail on community Thanks, Ahmed Fadl From: wafa Dahmani [mailto:wafatn7604 at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 1:05 PM To: wafa Dahmani Subject: AFRINIC Borad Elections Dear, My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC. I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates: Board of Directors: North Africa (seat 1) ? Habin Youssef West Africa (seat 2) ? Ly Ousmane South Africa (seat 5) ? Mpisane Vika William East Africa (seat 6) ? Nkusi Robert Ford Non-regional (seat 7) ? Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye Election Number Resource Organization Number Council ? Mustapha Ben Jemaa Election Policy Development Working Group ? Komi Elitcha ? Sami Hassan Election Governance Committee ? Daniel Nanghaka Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy and in order to preserve AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right candidates for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all our efforts and vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for an adequate board the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very simple for all categories except the policy development Working group where we want you to mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates We strongly solicit your support Thank you Wafa Dahmani member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ahmed.fadl at 57357.org Thu Jul 4 08:04:57 2019 From: ahmed.fadl at 57357.org (Ahmed Fadl) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2019 08:04:57 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: <0911A471-DF02-49FF-96FE-2A9AC32D5BC1@consulintel.es> References: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com> <0911A471-DF02-49FF-96FE-2A9AC32D5BC1@consulintel.es> Message-ID: Hi Jordi Already my mail provided for all community members Thank you From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ [mailto:jordi.palet at consulintel.es] Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 10:00 AM To: Ahmed Fadl ; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Hi Ahmed, Can you confirm if you have provided your email to Wafa and if that?s the case, if it was for discussing about candidates? Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 4/7/19 9:32, "Ahmed Fadl" > escribi?: Thank you Sami for your introduction Let me also introduce myself My name is Ahmed Fadl, I?m working in healthcare nonprofit organization called children cancer hospital Egypt (57357), it is curing our patients with free of charge, my role is healthcare applications director. Our hospital is one of the biggest hospital in the world in this specializations. Also I?m responsible for the IP pools of our organization so I joined Afrinic community. My point from my mail is we have to know the plan and strategy for every person before we vote for them. I noticed that all the list by Wafaa from the same region why? I don?t know The characteristics of the board members should include diversification because we need all Africa regions to take all benefits and increase all regions knowledge and skills. This is what I mean by my mail. Finally welcome everyone has good plan for developing my country and all African countries. Also all respect for community members. Thank you From: Sami Salih [mailto:sami.salih at outlook.com] Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 6:14 AM To: Noah >; Ahmed Fadl > Cc: Community-Discuss at afrinic.net; wafa Dahmani > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Salam I hope you reply Ahmed, since we have very bad experience with unknown fellows who come once to raise suspicious issue then disappear ! Looking for your positive continuous engagement. BR Dr. Sami H.O. Salih Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST Head of R&D, NTC, SUDAN President of SDv6TF T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 ________________________________ From: Noah > Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 1:41 AM To: Ahmed Fadl Cc: Community-Discuss at afrinic.net; wafa Dahmani Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Dear Ahmed First and foremost, welcome on-board this community mailing list since I am seeing you post for the first time ever and I hope you will continue to engage in various discussions as a member of the community now. So, I have been catching up with email and I would like to also contribute to the discussion by stating a few things in reference to people being biased in general. Let me introduce myself first. I personally work for AS37100 a member of AfriNIC, I was popularly elected by the community as a volunteer to the AfriNIC ASO - AC and my term ends next year in 2020, I am a secretary general of an ISP association in my country of residence, and I am generally involved within the AFRICAN internet community as a volunteer with various non-profit organizations because voluntary work is fulfilling. However, whatever I say here often is from a personal point of view unless I state otherwise. I am telling you all this because, with all my years of engagement in this community, I have always spoken in my own personal capacity that is why I use my own personal email address. Nothing I say is ever a representation of any of the organization I am affiliated with, though so often, my affiliations have been used by some members of this community to attack my personal character, sometime as far as going after my employment just because of my personal views on various matters pertaining the African Internet Community. What I am trying to say is that, Wafa as a community member, just like me, so often speaks on her own personal capacity and I believe she has since clarified this to you and the community. Therefore, I doubt its "bias"as you put it ...... and my view of that email from her to you is basically an elections campaign for a candidate and candidates of her choice and in the end, her efforts seems to have paid off as some of the candidate she was supporting for the Northern Africa seat Dr.Habib ended up getting the highest votes ever of all candidates in the entire board elections. I was on the ground in Kampala and Habib did well also in terms of campaigning, so did other candidates and I can understand why he was Wafa's choice and and her strategy for the Northern Africa candidate for board election did indeed work. That is what good mobilization in campaigns does. In fact just in the same elections, there was a very well coordinated campaign that involved among other things, mudslinging of a specific candidate by some members of the various constituencies within the community and this also perfectly OK. Folks can go as far as using print media and sometime private lobbying through mailing lists and chat rooms. Its the nature of politicking and campaigns are tough and sometimes they get ugly, after all, not all candidates are supposed to be liked by the entire electorate yet politicking still goes on. This is basically pure politics 101 and its perfectly acceptable and normal and as they say, politics is part of daily life and so many of us in this community have been party to this and its nothing new. I submit to you that, being a member of, say, the AfriNIC appeals committee, or ASO-AC or GC ...you name it, does not stop someone from having their own subjective views nor does it stop them from being involved in community politics at a personal level. Remember above and beyond, we are all part of the Internet community before our various affiliations and after being party to these affiliations, we continue to be members of the internet community and remain in this community. What really matters is respect for each other and how we treat each other even when we disagree because in the end, its through this politics that we progress as we continue to individually contribute, improve and resolve some of our challenges. Cheers and I look forward to more engagement with you Mr.Ahmed. Noah On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 2:17 PM Ahmed Fadl > wrote: Hi Wafa, Thanks for your email. I, among other members of AFRINIC in Egypt, received the following email from you many times. I wondered at that time why should I vote for these candidates specially for those in Eastern and Southern regions while each one was the sole candidate in his region. I quote this from your email "Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy ...." what is your strategy and who are you ? If you are talking about biasing the community, So, do you consider your email as a "member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC." fall under what ? I sent this mail many time but I don?t know why I can?t find this mail on community Thanks, Ahmed Fadl From: wafa Dahmani [mailto:wafatn7604 at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 1:05 PM To: wafa Dahmani > Subject: AFRINIC Borad Elections Dear, My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC. I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates: Board of Directors: North Africa (seat 1) ? Habin Youssef West Africa (seat 2) ? Ly Ousmane South Africa (seat 5) ? Mpisane Vika William East Africa (seat 6) ? Nkusi Robert Ford Non-regional (seat 7) ? Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye Election Number Resource Organization Number Council ? Mustapha Ben Jemaa Election Policy Development Working Group ? Komi Elitcha ? Sami Hassan Election Governance Committee ? Daniel Nanghaka Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy and in order to preserve AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right candidates for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all our efforts and vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for an adequate board the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very simple for all categories except the policy development Working group where we want you to mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates We strongly solicit your support Thank you Wafa Dahmani member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jordi.palet at consulintel.es Thu Jul 4 08:08:53 2019 From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ) Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2019 10:08:53 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: References: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com> <0911A471-DF02-49FF-96FE-2A9AC32D5BC1@consulintel.es> Message-ID: <19FD3B48-D5EA-4504-BDC0-748D322668E9@consulintel.es> Hi Ahmen, I mean before getting the email advertisings the candidates, have you personally provided your email to Wafa? Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 4/7/19 10:06, "Ahmed Fadl" escribi?: Hi Jordi Already my mail provided for all community members Thank you From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ [mailto:jordi.palet at consulintel.es] Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 10:00 AM To: Ahmed Fadl ; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Hi Ahmed, Can you confirm if you have provided your email to Wafa and if that?s the case, if it was for discussing about candidates? Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 4/7/19 9:32, "Ahmed Fadl" escribi?: Thank you Sami for your introduction Let me also introduce myself My name is Ahmed Fadl, I?m working in healthcare nonprofit organization called children cancer hospital Egypt (57357), it is curing our patients with free of charge, my role is healthcare applications director. Our hospital is one of the biggest hospital in the world in this specializations. Also I?m responsible for the IP pools of our organization so I joined Afrinic community. My point from my mail is we have to know the plan and strategy for every person before we vote for them. I noticed that all the list by Wafaa from the same region why? I don?t know The characteristics of the board members should include diversification because we need all Africa regions to take all benefits and increase all regions knowledge and skills. This is what I mean by my mail. Finally welcome everyone has good plan for developing my country and all African countries. Also all respect for community members. Thank you From: Sami Salih [mailto:sami.salih at outlook.com] Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 6:14 AM To: Noah ; Ahmed Fadl Cc: Community-Discuss at afrinic.net; wafa Dahmani Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Salam I hope you reply Ahmed, since we have very bad experience with unknown fellows who come once to raise suspicious issue then disappear ! Looking for your positive continuous engagement. BR Dr. Sami H.O. Salih Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST Head of R&D, NTC, SUDAN President of SDv6TF T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 From: Noah Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 1:41 AM To: Ahmed Fadl Cc: Community-Discuss at afrinic.net; wafa Dahmani Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Dear Ahmed First and foremost, welcome on-board this community mailing list since I am seeing you post for the first time ever and I hope you will continue to engage in various discussions as a member of the community now. So, I have been catching up with email and I would like to also contribute to the discussion by stating a few things in reference to people being biased in general. Let me introduce myself first. I personally work for AS37100 a member of AfriNIC, I was popularly elected by the community as a volunteer to the AfriNIC ASO - AC and my term ends next year in 2020, I am a secretary general of an ISP association in my country of residence, and I am generally involved within the AFRICAN internet community as a volunteer with various non-profit organizations because voluntary work is fulfilling. However, whatever I say here often is from a personal point of view unless I state otherwise. I am telling you all this because, with all my years of engagement in this community, I have always spoken in my own personal capacity that is why I use my own personal email address. Nothing I say is ever a representation of any of the organization I am affiliated with, though so often, my affiliations have been used by some members of this community to attack my personal character, sometime as far as going after my employment just because of my personal views on various matters pertaining the African Internet Community. What I am trying to say is that, Wafa as a community member, just like me, so often speaks on her own personal capacity and I believe she has since clarified this to you and the community. Therefore, I doubt its "bias"as you put it ...... and my view of that email from her to you is basically an elections campaign for a candidate and candidates of her choice and in the end, her efforts seems to have paid off as some of the candidate she was supporting for the Northern Africa seat Dr.Habib ended up getting the highest votes ever of all candidates in the entire board elections. I was on the ground in Kampala and Habib did well also in terms of campaigning, so did other candidates and I can understand why he was Wafa's choice and and her strategy for the Northern Africa candidate for board election did indeed work. That is what good mobilization in campaigns does. In fact just in the same elections, there was a very well coordinated campaign that involved among other things, mudslinging of a specific candidate by some members of the various constituencies within the community and this also perfectly OK. Folks can go as far as using print media and sometime private lobbying through mailing lists and chat rooms. Its the nature of politicking and campaigns are tough and sometimes they get ugly, after all, not all candidates are supposed to be liked by the entire electorate yet politicking still goes on. This is basically pure politics 101 and its perfectly acceptable and normal and as they say, politics is part of daily life and so many of us in this community have been party to this and its nothing new. I submit to you that, being a member of, say, the AfriNIC appeals committee, or ASO-AC or GC ...you name it, does not stop someone from having their own subjective views nor does it stop them from being involved in community politics at a personal level. Remember above and beyond, we are all part of the Internet community before our various affiliations and after being party to these affiliations, we continue to be members of the internet community and remain in this community. What really matters is respect for each other and how we treat each other even when we disagree because in the end, its through this politics that we progress as we continue to individually contribute, improve and resolve some of our challenges. Cheers and I look forward to more engagement with you Mr.Ahmed. Noah On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 2:17 PM Ahmed Fadl wrote: Hi Wafa, Thanks for your email. I, among other members of AFRINIC in Egypt, received the following email from you many times. I wondered at that time why should I vote for these candidates specially for those in Eastern and Southern regions while each one was the sole candidate in his region. I quote this from your email "Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy ...." what is your strategy and who are you ? If you are talking about biasing the community, So, do you consider your email as a "member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC." fall under what ? I sent this mail many time but I don?t know why I can?t find this mail on community Thanks, Ahmed Fadl From: wafa Dahmani [mailto:wafatn7604 at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 1:05 PM To: wafa Dahmani Subject: AFRINIC Borad Elections Dear, My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC. I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates: Board of Directors: North Africa (seat 1) ? Habin Youssef West Africa (seat 2) ? Ly Ousmane South Africa (seat 5) ? Mpisane Vika William East Africa (seat 6) ? Nkusi Robert Ford Non-regional (seat 7) ? Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye Election Number Resource Organization Number Council ? Mustapha Ben Jemaa Election Policy Development Working Group ? Komi Elitcha ? Sami Hassan Election Governance Committee ? Daniel Nanghaka Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy and in order to preserve AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right candidates for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all our efforts and vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for an adequate board the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very simple for all categories except the policy development Working group where we want you to mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates We strongly solicit your support Thank you Wafa Dahmani member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From geier at geier.ne.tz Thu Jul 4 08:13:20 2019 From: geier at geier.ne.tz (Frank Habicht) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2019 11:13:20 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: References: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com> <784191FB-9315-4D1A-9C90-E565F89C08A1@steffann.nl> Message-ID: Hi, I don't want to speak for Andrew, but I think these 2 links can be helpful: https://lmgtfy.com/?q=apparent+authority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apparent_authority I think Andrew was encouraging own initiative of the reader. Regards, Frank On 04/07/2019 10:51, Sami Salih wrote: > Andrew? > Just a reminder, Please share the link > > *Dr. Sami H.O. Salih* > Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST > Head of R&D, NTC, SUDAN > President of SDv6TF > T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Sami Salih > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 3, 2019 4:54 PM > *To:* Andrew Alston; Sander Steffann > *Cc:* Sander Steffann; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net; Ahmed Fadl; wafa > Dahmani > *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections > ? > Could you please share the link > > Get Outlook for Android > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Andrew Alston > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 3, 2019 4:52:10 PM > *To:* Sami Salih; Sander Steffann > *Cc:* Sander Steffann; Ahmed Fadl; wafa Dahmani; > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > *Subject:* RE: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections > ? > > Sami, > > ? > > Do yourself a favor ? and go and read up on the doctrine of apparent > authority. > > ? > > It makes for some fascinating reading ? particularly the case law in > various jurisdictions about email domains and email signatures.? I?ll > let you draw your own conclusions from what you find, keeping in mind > I?m no lawyer ? but I do have an interest in this stuff ? and reading > material was? very interesting ? > > ? > > Thanks > > > Andrew > > ? > > ? > > ? > > *From:*Sami Salih > *Sent:* Wednesday, 3 July 2019 16:33 > *To:* Sander Steffann > *Cc:* Sander Steffann ; Andrew Alston > ; Ahmed Fadl ; > wafa Dahmani ; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections > > ? > > So wafa use her public email too :-) > > Get Outlook for Android > > ? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:*Sander Steffann > > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 3, 2019 4:27:55 PM > *To:* Sami Salih > *Cc:* Sander Steffann; Andrew Alston; Ahmed Fadl; wafa Dahmani; > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections > > ? > > Hi Sami, > >> I'm using a public email (outlook.com) not my official one > (sustech.sd), however my signature is MY signature I use it to show the > people the ground where I stand when I say something. > > Exactly. > Sander > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com Thu Jul 4 08:24:56 2019 From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2019 08:24:56 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: References: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com> <784191FB-9315-4D1A-9C90-E565F89C08A1@steffann.nl> Message-ID: Indeed ? I was attempting to avoid lobbying from an unbiased perspective and encouraging people to read and make up their own minds *grin* Andrew From: Frank Habicht Sent: Thursday, 4 July 2019 11:13 To: community-discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Hi, I don't want to speak for Andrew, but I think these 2 links can be helpful: https://lmgtfy.com/?q=apparent+authority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apparent_authority I think Andrew was encouraging own initiative of the reader. Regards, Frank On 04/07/2019 10:51, Sami Salih wrote: > Andrew > Just a reminder, Please share the link > > *Dr. Sami H.O. Salih* > Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST > Head of R&D, NTC, SUDAN > President of SDv6TF > T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Sami Salih > > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 3, 2019 4:54 PM > *To:* Andrew Alston; Sander Steffann > *Cc:* Sander Steffann; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net; Ahmed Fadl; wafa > Dahmani > *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections > > Could you please share the link > > Get Outlook for Android > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Andrew Alston > > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 3, 2019 4:52:10 PM > *To:* Sami Salih; Sander Steffann > *Cc:* Sander Steffann; Ahmed Fadl; wafa Dahmani; > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > *Subject:* RE: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections > > > Sami, > > > > Do yourself a favor ? and go and read up on the doctrine of apparent > authority. > > > > It makes for some fascinating reading ? particularly the case law in > various jurisdictions about email domains and email signatures. I?ll > let you draw your own conclusions from what you find, keeping in mind > I?m no lawyer ? but I do have an interest in this stuff ? and reading > material was? very interesting ? > > > > Thanks > > > Andrew > > > > > > > > *From:*Sami Salih > > *Sent:* Wednesday, 3 July 2019 16:33 > *To:* Sander Steffann > > *Cc:* Sander Steffann >; Andrew Alston > >; Ahmed Fadl >; > wafa Dahmani >; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections > > > > So wafa use her public email too :-) > > Get Outlook for Android > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *From:*Sander Steffann >> > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 3, 2019 4:27:55 PM > *To:* Sami Salih > *Cc:* Sander Steffann; Andrew Alston; Ahmed Fadl; wafa Dahmani; > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections > > > > Hi Sami, > >> I'm using a public email (outlook.com) not my official one > (sustech.sd), however my signature is MY signature I use it to show the > people the ground where I stand when I say something. > > Exactly. > Sander > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ahmed.fadl at 57357.org Thu Jul 4 08:24:20 2019 From: ahmed.fadl at 57357.org (Ahmed Fadl) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2019 08:24:20 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: <19FD3B48-D5EA-4504-BDC0-748D322668E9@consulintel.es> References: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com> <0911A471-DF02-49FF-96FE-2A9AC32D5BC1@consulintel.es> <19FD3B48-D5EA-4504-BDC0-748D322668E9@consulintel.es> Message-ID: <42cf416f44fe42a3aeeab982354613f0@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com> No [cid:5310A542-164E-418D-8580-1702FF9D8251] Ahmed Fadl |? Healthcare Applications Director P: +201229889806 | EXT: 6236 | E: ahmed.fadl at 57357.org ? [cid:image001.png at 01D2A70B.D20C5C70] The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and confidential information. It is intended only for the use of the person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ [mailto:jordi.palet at consulintel.es] Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 10:09 AM To: Ahmed Fadl ; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Hi Ahmen, I mean before getting the email advertisings the candidates, have you personally provided your email to Wafa? Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 4/7/19 10:06, "Ahmed Fadl" > escribi?: Hi Jordi Already my mail provided for all community members Thank you From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ [mailto:jordi.palet at consulintel.es] Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 10:00 AM To: Ahmed Fadl >; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Hi Ahmed, Can you confirm if you have provided your email to Wafa and if that?s the case, if it was for discussing about candidates? Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 4/7/19 9:32, "Ahmed Fadl" > escribi?: Thank you Sami for your introduction Let me also introduce myself My name is Ahmed Fadl, I?m working in healthcare nonprofit organization called children cancer hospital Egypt (57357), it is curing our patients with free of charge, my role is healthcare applications director. Our hospital is one of the biggest hospital in the world in this specializations. Also I?m responsible for the IP pools of our organization so I joined Afrinic community. My point from my mail is we have to know the plan and strategy for every person before we vote for them. I noticed that all the list by Wafaa from the same region why? I don?t know The characteristics of the board members should include diversification because we need all Africa regions to take all benefits and increase all regions knowledge and skills. This is what I mean by my mail. Finally welcome everyone has good plan for developing my country and all African countries. Also all respect for community members. Thank you From: Sami Salih [mailto:sami.salih at outlook.com] Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 6:14 AM To: Noah >; Ahmed Fadl > Cc: Community-Discuss at afrinic.net; wafa Dahmani > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Salam I hope you reply Ahmed, since we have very bad experience with unknown fellows who come once to raise suspicious issue then disappear ! Looking for your positive continuous engagement. BR Dr. Sami H.O. Salih Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST Head of R&D, NTC, SUDAN President of SDv6TF T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 ________________________________ From: Noah > Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 1:41 AM To: Ahmed Fadl Cc: Community-Discuss at afrinic.net; wafa Dahmani Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Dear Ahmed First and foremost, welcome on-board this community mailing list since I am seeing you post for the first time ever and I hope you will continue to engage in various discussions as a member of the community now. So, I have been catching up with email and I would like to also contribute to the discussion by stating a few things in reference to people being biased in general. Let me introduce myself first. I personally work for AS37100 a member of AfriNIC, I was popularly elected by the community as a volunteer to the AfriNIC ASO - AC and my term ends next year in 2020, I am a secretary general of an ISP association in my country of residence, and I am generally involved within the AFRICAN internet community as a volunteer with various non-profit organizations because voluntary work is fulfilling. However, whatever I say here often is from a personal point of view unless I state otherwise. I am telling you all this because, with all my years of engagement in this community, I have always spoken in my own personal capacity that is why I use my own personal email address. Nothing I say is ever a representation of any of the organization I am affiliated with, though so often, my affiliations have been used by some members of this community to attack my personal character, sometime as far as going after my employment just because of my personal views on various matters pertaining the African Internet Community. What I am trying to say is that, Wafa as a community member, just like me, so often speaks on her own personal capacity and I believe she has since clarified this to you and the community. Therefore, I doubt its "bias"as you put it ...... and my view of that email from her to you is basically an elections campaign for a candidate and candidates of her choice and in the end, her efforts seems to have paid off as some of the candidate she was supporting for the Northern Africa seat Dr.Habib ended up getting the highest votes ever of all candidates in the entire board elections. I was on the ground in Kampala and Habib did well also in terms of campaigning, so did other candidates and I can understand why he was Wafa's choice and and her strategy for the Northern Africa candidate for board election did indeed work. That is what good mobilization in campaigns does. In fact just in the same elections, there was a very well coordinated campaign that involved among other things, mudslinging of a specific candidate by some members of the various constituencies within the community and this also perfectly OK. Folks can go as far as using print media and sometime private lobbying through mailing lists and chat rooms. Its the nature of politicking and campaigns are tough and sometimes they get ugly, after all, not all candidates are supposed to be liked by the entire electorate yet politicking still goes on. This is basically pure politics 101 and its perfectly acceptable and normal and as they say, politics is part of daily life and so many of us in this community have been party to this and its nothing new. I submit to you that, being a member of, say, the AfriNIC appeals committee, or ASO-AC or GC ...you name it, does not stop someone from having their own subjective views nor does it stop them from being involved in community politics at a personal level. Remember above and beyond, we are all part of the Internet community before our various affiliations and after being party to these affiliations, we continue to be members of the internet community and remain in this community. What really matters is respect for each other and how we treat each other even when we disagree because in the end, its through this politics that we progress as we continue to individually contribute, improve and resolve some of our challenges. Cheers and I look forward to more engagement with you Mr.Ahmed. Noah On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 2:17 PM Ahmed Fadl > wrote: Hi Wafa, Thanks for your email. I, among other members of AFRINIC in Egypt, received the following email from you many times. I wondered at that time why should I vote for these candidates specially for those in Eastern and Southern regions while each one was the sole candidate in his region. I quote this from your email "Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy ...." what is your strategy and who are you ? If you are talking about biasing the community, So, do you consider your email as a "member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC." fall under what ? I sent this mail many time but I don?t know why I can?t find this mail on community Thanks, Ahmed Fadl From: wafa Dahmani [mailto:wafatn7604 at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 1:05 PM To: wafa Dahmani > Subject: AFRINIC Borad Elections Dear, My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC. I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates: Board of Directors: North Africa (seat 1) ? Habin Youssef West Africa (seat 2) ? Ly Ousmane South Africa (seat 5) ? Mpisane Vika William East Africa (seat 6) ? Nkusi Robert Ford Non-regional (seat 7) ? Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye Election Number Resource Organization Number Council ? Mustapha Ben Jemaa Election Policy Development Working Group ? Komi Elitcha ? Sami Hassan Election Governance Committee ? Daniel Nanghaka Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy and in order to preserve AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right candidates for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all our efforts and vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for an adequate board the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very simple for all categories except the policy development Working group where we want you to mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates We strongly solicit your support Thank you Wafa Dahmani member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 10487 bytes Desc: image002.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.png Type: image/png Size: 11142 bytes Desc: image003.png URL: From ahmed.fadl at 57357.org Thu Jul 4 08:25:46 2019 From: ahmed.fadl at 57357.org (Ahmed Fadl) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2019 08:25:46 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: References: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com>, , Message-ID: <16db2e3017a9446785f1a5140b763660@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com> Thanks for clarification [cid:5310A542-164E-418D-8580-1702FF9D8251] Ahmed Fadl |? Healthcare Applications Director P: +201229889806 | EXT: 6236 | E: ahmed.fadl at 57357.org ? [cid:image001.png at 01D2A70B.D20C5C70] The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and confidential information. It is intended only for the use of the person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message From: Sami Salih [mailto:sami.salih at outlook.com] Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 9:47 AM To: Ahmed Fadl ; Noah Cc: Community-Discuss at afrinic.net; wafa Dahmani Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Shokran Ahmed for showing up, welcome to AFRINIC community. you said: I noticed that all the list by Wafaa from the same region why? I don?t know If I understand your sentence correctly, I have to tell you that AFRINIC board is 9 seats (6 Regional, 2 Non-Regional, and the CEO). for more details please visit AFRINIC Governance portal https://afrinic.net/board hope this help clarifying the issue. Dr. Sami H.O. Salih Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST Head of R&D, NTC, SUDAN President of SDv6TF T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 ________________________________ From: Ahmed Fadl > Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 10:28 AM To: Sami Salih; Noah Cc: Community-Discuss at afrinic.net; wafa Dahmani Subject: RE: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Thank you Sami for your introduction Let me also introduce myself My name is Ahmed Fadl, I?m working in healthcare nonprofit organization called children cancer hospital Egypt (57357), it is curing our patients with free of charge, my role is healthcare applications director. Our hospital is one of the biggest hospital in the world in this specializations. Also I?m responsible for the IP pools of our organization so I joined Afrinic community. My point from my mail is we have to know the plan and strategy for every person before we vote for them. I noticed that all the list by Wafaa from the same region why? I don?t know The characteristics of the board members should include diversification because we need all Africa regions to take all benefits and increase all regions knowledge and skills. This is what I mean by my mail. Finally welcome everyone has good plan for developing my country and all African countries. Also all respect for community members. Thank you From: Sami Salih [mailto:sami.salih at outlook.com] Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 6:14 AM To: Noah >; Ahmed Fadl > Cc: Community-Discuss at afrinic.net; wafa Dahmani > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Salam I hope you reply Ahmed, since we have very bad experience with unknown fellows who come once to raise suspicious issue then disappear ! Looking for your positive continuous engagement. BR Dr. Sami H.O. Salih Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST Head of R&D, NTC, SUDAN President of SDv6TF T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 ________________________________ From: Noah > Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 1:41 AM To: Ahmed Fadl Cc: Community-Discuss at afrinic.net; wafa Dahmani Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Dear Ahmed First and foremost, welcome on-board this community mailing list since I am seeing you post for the first time ever and I hope you will continue to engage in various discussions as a member of the community now. So, I have been catching up with email and I would like to also contribute to the discussion by stating a few things in reference to people being biased in general. Let me introduce myself first. I personally work for AS37100 a member of AfriNIC, I was popularly elected by the community as a volunteer to the AfriNIC ASO - AC and my term ends next year in 2020, I am a secretary general of an ISP association in my country of residence, and I am generally involved within the AFRICAN internet community as a volunteer with various non-profit organizations because voluntary work is fulfilling. However, whatever I say here often is from a personal point of view unless I state otherwise. I am telling you all this because, with all my years of engagement in this community, I have always spoken in my own personal capacity that is why I use my own personal email address. Nothing I say is ever a representation of any of the organization I am affiliated with, though so often, my affiliations have been used by some members of this community to attack my personal character, sometime as far as going after my employment just because of my personal views on various matters pertaining the African Internet Community. What I am trying to say is that, Wafa as a community member, just like me, so often speaks on her own personal capacity and I believe she has since clarified this to you and the community. Therefore, I doubt its "bias"as you put it ...... and my view of that email from her to you is basically an elections campaign for a candidate and candidates of her choice and in the end, her efforts seems to have paid off as some of the candidate she was supporting for the Northern Africa seat Dr.Habib ended up getting the highest votes ever of all candidates in the entire board elections. I was on the ground in Kampala and Habib did well also in terms of campaigning, so did other candidates and I can understand why he was Wafa's choice and and her strategy for the Northern Africa candidate for board election did indeed work. That is what good mobilization in campaigns does. In fact just in the same elections, there was a very well coordinated campaign that involved among other things, mudslinging of a specific candidate by some members of the various constituencies within the community and this also perfectly OK. Folks can go as far as using print media and sometime private lobbying through mailing lists and chat rooms. Its the nature of politicking and campaigns are tough and sometimes they get ugly, after all, not all candidates are supposed to be liked by the entire electorate yet politicking still goes on. This is basically pure politics 101 and its perfectly acceptable and normal and as they say, politics is part of daily life and so many of us in this community have been party to this and its nothing new. I submit to you that, being a member of, say, the AfriNIC appeals committee, or ASO-AC or GC ...you name it, does not stop someone from having their own subjective views nor does it stop them from being involved in community politics at a personal level. Remember above and beyond, we are all part of the Internet community before our various affiliations and after being party to these affiliations, we continue to be members of the internet community and remain in this community. What really matters is respect for each other and how we treat each other even when we disagree because in the end, its through this politics that we progress as we continue to individually contribute, improve and resolve some of our challenges. Cheers and I look forward to more engagement with you Mr.Ahmed. Noah On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 2:17 PM Ahmed Fadl > wrote: Hi Wafa, Thanks for your email. I, among other members of AFRINIC in Egypt, received the following email from you many times. I wondered at that time why should I vote for these candidates specially for those in Eastern and Southern regions while each one was the sole candidate in his region. I quote this from your email "Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy ...." what is your strategy and who are you ? If you are talking about biasing the community, So, do you consider your email as a "member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC." fall under what ? I sent this mail many time but I don?t know why I can?t find this mail on community Thanks, Ahmed Fadl From: wafa Dahmani [mailto:wafatn7604 at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 1:05 PM To: wafa Dahmani > Subject: AFRINIC Borad Elections Dear, My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC. I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates: Board of Directors: North Africa (seat 1) * Habin Youssef West Africa (seat 2) * Ly Ousmane South Africa (seat 5) * Mpisane Vika William East Africa (seat 6) * Nkusi Robert Ford Non-regional (seat 7) * Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye Election Number Resource Organization Number Council * Mustapha Ben Jemaa Election Policy Development Working Group * Komi Elitcha * Sami Hassan Election Governance Committee * Daniel Nanghaka Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy and in order to preserve AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right candidates for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all our efforts and vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for an adequate board the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very simple for all categories except the policy development Working group where we want you to mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates We strongly solicit your support Thank you Wafa Dahmani member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 10487 bytes Desc: image002.png URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image003.png Type: image/png Size: 11142 bytes Desc: image003.png URL: From jordi.palet at consulintel.es Thu Jul 4 08:29:09 2019 From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ) Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2019 10:29:09 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: <42cf416f44fe42a3aeeab982354613f0@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com> References: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com> <0911A471-DF02-49FF-96FE-2A9AC32D5BC1@consulintel.es> <19FD3B48-D5EA-4504-BDC0-748D322668E9@consulintel.es> <42cf416f44fe42a3aeeab982354613f0@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com> Message-ID: Thanks a lot for your response Ahmed! I think is key to identify the source of the emails and to make sure that they haven?t been provided explicitly by the owners. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 4/7/19 10:25, "Ahmed Fadl" escribi?: No Ahmed Fadl |? Healthcare Applications DirectorP: +201229889806 | EXT: 6236 | E: ahmed.fadl at 57357.org ? The information contained in this transmission may contain privileged and confidential information. It is intended only for the use of the person(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ [mailto:jordi.palet at consulintel.es] Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 10:09 AM To: Ahmed Fadl ; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Hi Ahmen, I mean before getting the email advertisings the candidates, have you personally provided your email to Wafa? Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 4/7/19 10:06, "Ahmed Fadl" escribi?: Hi Jordi Already my mail provided for all community members Thank you From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ [mailto:jordi.palet at consulintel.es] Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 10:00 AM To: Ahmed Fadl ; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Hi Ahmed, Can you confirm if you have provided your email to Wafa and if that?s the case, if it was for discussing about candidates? Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 4/7/19 9:32, "Ahmed Fadl" escribi?: Thank you Sami for your introduction Let me also introduce myself My name is Ahmed Fadl, I?m working in healthcare nonprofit organization called children cancer hospital Egypt (57357), it is curing our patients with free of charge, my role is healthcare applications director. Our hospital is one of the biggest hospital in the world in this specializations. Also I?m responsible for the IP pools of our organization so I joined Afrinic community. My point from my mail is we have to know the plan and strategy for every person before we vote for them. I noticed that all the list by Wafaa from the same region why? I don?t know The characteristics of the board members should include diversification because we need all Africa regions to take all benefits and increase all regions knowledge and skills. This is what I mean by my mail. Finally welcome everyone has good plan for developing my country and all African countries. Also all respect for community members. Thank you From: Sami Salih [mailto:sami.salih at outlook.com] Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 6:14 AM To: Noah ; Ahmed Fadl Cc: Community-Discuss at afrinic.net; wafa Dahmani Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Salam I hope you reply Ahmed, since we have very bad experience with unknown fellows who come once to raise suspicious issue then disappear ! Looking for your positive continuous engagement. BR Dr. Sami H.O. Salih Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST Head of R&D, NTC, SUDAN President of SDv6TF T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 From: Noah Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 1:41 AM To: Ahmed Fadl Cc: Community-Discuss at afrinic.net; wafa Dahmani Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Dear Ahmed First and foremost, welcome on-board this community mailing list since I am seeing you post for the first time ever and I hope you will continue to engage in various discussions as a member of the community now. So, I have been catching up with email and I would like to also contribute to the discussion by stating a few things in reference to people being biased in general. Let me introduce myself first. I personally work for AS37100 a member of AfriNIC, I was popularly elected by the community as a volunteer to the AfriNIC ASO - AC and my term ends next year in 2020, I am a secretary general of an ISP association in my country of residence, and I am generally involved within the AFRICAN internet community as a volunteer with various non-profit organizations because voluntary work is fulfilling. However, whatever I say here often is from a personal point of view unless I state otherwise. I am telling you all this because, with all my years of engagement in this community, I have always spoken in my own personal capacity that is why I use my own personal email address. Nothing I say is ever a representation of any of the organization I am affiliated with, though so often, my affiliations have been used by some members of this community to attack my personal character, sometime as far as going after my employment just because of my personal views on various matters pertaining the African Internet Community. What I am trying to say is that, Wafa as a community member, just like me, so often speaks on her own personal capacity and I believe she has since clarified this to you and the community. Therefore, I doubt its "bias"as you put it ...... and my view of that email from her to you is basically an elections campaign for a candidate and candidates of her choice and in the end, her efforts seems to have paid off as some of the candidate she was supporting for the Northern Africa seat Dr.Habib ended up getting the highest votes ever of all candidates in the entire board elections. I was on the ground in Kampala and Habib did well also in terms of campaigning, so did other candidates and I can understand why he was Wafa's choice and and her strategy for the Northern Africa candidate for board election did indeed work. That is what good mobilization in campaigns does. In fact just in the same elections, there was a very well coordinated campaign that involved among other things, mudslinging of a specific candidate by some members of the various constituencies within the community and this also perfectly OK. Folks can go as far as using print media and sometime private lobbying through mailing lists and chat rooms. Its the nature of politicking and campaigns are tough and sometimes they get ugly, after all, not all candidates are supposed to be liked by the entire electorate yet politicking still goes on. This is basically pure politics 101 and its perfectly acceptable and normal and as they say, politics is part of daily life and so many of us in this community have been party to this and its nothing new. I submit to you that, being a member of, say, the AfriNIC appeals committee, or ASO-AC or GC ...you name it, does not stop someone from having their own subjective views nor does it stop them from being involved in community politics at a personal level. Remember above and beyond, we are all part of the Internet community before our various affiliations and after being party to these affiliations, we continue to be members of the internet community and remain in this community. What really matters is respect for each other and how we treat each other even when we disagree because in the end, its through this politics that we progress as we continue to individually contribute, improve and resolve some of our challenges. Cheers and I look forward to more engagement with you Mr.Ahmed. Noah On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 2:17 PM Ahmed Fadl wrote: Hi Wafa, Thanks for your email. I, among other members of AFRINIC in Egypt, received the following email from you many times. I wondered at that time why should I vote for these candidates specially for those in Eastern and Southern regions while each one was the sole candidate in his region. I quote this from your email "Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy ...." what is your strategy and who are you ? If you are talking about biasing the community, So, do you consider your email as a "member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC." fall under what ? I sent this mail many time but I don?t know why I can?t find this mail on community Thanks, Ahmed Fadl From: wafa Dahmani [mailto:wafatn7604 at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 1:05 PM To: wafa Dahmani Subject: AFRINIC Borad Elections Dear, My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC. I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates: Board of Directors: North Africa (seat 1) ? Habin Youssef West Africa (seat 2) ? Ly Ousmane South Africa (seat 5) ? Mpisane Vika William East Africa (seat 6) ? Nkusi Robert Ford Non-regional (seat 7) ? Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye Election Number Resource Organization Number Council ? Mustapha Ben Jemaa Election Policy Development Working Group ? Komi Elitcha ? Sami Hassan Election Governance Committee ? Daniel Nanghaka Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy and in order to preserve AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right candidates for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all our efforts and vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for an adequate board the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very simple for all categories except the policy development Working group where we want you to mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates We strongly solicit your support Thank you Wafa Dahmani member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.png Type: image/png Size: 11143 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.png Type: image/png Size: 10488 bytes Desc: not available URL: From akiriza.lydia at gmail.com Thu Jul 4 13:47:39 2019 From: akiriza.lydia at gmail.com (Lydia Akiriza) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2019 16:47:39 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: References: <1478031339.474342.1562059823971.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> <20190702203653.Horde.w8XYOZ5zj0KYbKXU_Q9euLb@musatesa.net> Message-ID: So this caught my attention:-) So Noah asked: "A quick one Anne-vivien Paris if you dont mind. I am curious to know if you have supported similar activities and events in other RIR other than AfriNIC" And Anne's response "(1) Larus Foundation sponsors events in different regions in addition to those in Africa. For example, very recently we have sponsored a few candidates of different ethics to attend ICANN in Morocco. You can find the list of events we sponsor in the coming future on our website : https://www.larusfoundation.org/about-the-fellowship/ (simply click the "apply now" and you will find a list of events)." I believe Noah's question was have you sponsored any events other than those in Africa? Interestingly the ONLY example you give is still in Africa:-) Last i checked Morocco is in North Africa:-) And you proceed to tell us about your future plans which i would hate to believe will now be aimed at ensuring this question isn't asked again:-) well thanks for your support...:-) I should follow to build my opinion on this but this just didnt nail it for me. Blessings ya'll On Wed, 3 Jul 2019, 14:33 Anne-vivien Paris, wrote: > Dear Noah, > > Thank you for your interest in the Foundation. Please let me clarify: > > (1) Larus Foundation sponsors events in different regions in addition to > those in Africa. For example, very recently we have sponsored a few > candidates of different ethics to attend ICANN in Morocco. You can find the > list of events we sponsor in the coming future on our website : > https://www.larusfoundation.org/about-the-fellowship/ (simply click the > "apply now" and you will find a list of events). > > (2) Regarding your doubt on our 5th FAQ, let me explain that we do not > target any particualr parties/regions. Our 5th FAQ states that "I am from > Africa but I would really like ot attend RIR meetings outside Africa. Will > that be possible?". Africa is randomly selected; you can indeed understand > it is equivalent to "If I am from Asia can I attend meetings outside Asia". > We appreciate you pointing this out - indeed the statement allows room for > overead. However, I think if you take the extra time to read the answer, > things will be clarified - we state explicitly that the Internet is > borderless and participation of Internet governance shall not be restricted > by geographical factors. Let me make it clear that this applies to all > continents in the world. > > We thank you for the questions you raised which allows us to clarify > things. My apologies for the wrong name used in the education package - it > was a careless mistake. We will update it accordingly. > > Indeed, the community's feedback on us help the Foundation better itself > and we appreciate that. > > Vivien > *Vivien PARIS* > *Larus FOUNDATION* > p:+44 7746 416450 > w: www.larusfoundation.org > a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR > > > On Wed, 3 Jul 2019 at 03:43, Noah wrote: > >> >> >> On Tue, 2 Jul 2019, 21:37 Ousmane M. TESSA, wrote: >> >>> Huumm! Noah. >>> Better ask difference between "sponsorship to educate newcomers" or >>> lobbying to push specific agenda in Africa. >>> Elsewhere, the fear of Justice will deter most of people to even think >>> about this trick. >>> >> >> Tessa >> >> While I wait for Viven response of their activity beyond Afrinic service >> region... >> >> I have had to go to the foundation website and the 5th faq question >> specifically targets folks from Africa.... how attractive is that.! >> >> Have we become this vulnerable? >> >> https://www.larusfoundation.org/faq/ >> >> Noah >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > > > -- > *Vivien * > *Larus Cloud Service Limited* > p:+852 29888918 > f:+852 29888368 > e:a.v.p at laruscloudservice.net > w:laruscloudservice.net/ > a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ezekielj20 at gmail.com Thu Jul 4 14:05:54 2019 From: ezekielj20 at gmail.com (94cm4n .) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2019 15:05:54 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear AFRInIC Staff, Can you please provide us the list of all the mentors used during the last Afrinic meeting? Thanks. Jehovahseun On Thu, 4 Jul 2019, 1:30 PM , wrote: > Send RPD mailing list submissions to > rpd at afrinic.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > rpd-request at afrinic.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > rpd-owner at afrinic.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of RPD digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship (SOUAD ABIDI) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2019 13:29:12 +0100 > From: SOUAD ABIDI > To: "aleruchichuku at yahoo.com" > Cc: "community-discuss at afrinic.net" , > "rpd at afrinic.net" > Subject: Re: [rpd] [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship > Message-ID: > < > CAAKrF6-wYeqOQR6Vcw_AYFpKWjeaO3tEZRWW_QMnzSVbSh3_xA at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > correction : the meeting was from 26 to 30 November 2018 > excuse me > > Best regards > > Le jeu. 4 juil. 2019 ? 13:22, SOUAD ABIDI a ?crit : > > > @Taiwo > > > > As an afriNIC29 fellow in Tunisia, I would like to make an input: > > > > We , as fellows, have been given the policies doc(which is a public doc > > ) 2 weeks before the meeting in Tunisia : 28-30 Nov 2018 . > > > > Kindly find attached : > > > > --The screen short of the email (sent Nov 14th) > > --The doc you asked for > > > > Talking as an afriNIC 29 fellow , but I believe it's the same process > > adopted for all the meetings. > > > > Best regards. > > Souad > > > > > > > > > > > > Le mer. 3 juil. 2019 ? 22:07, aleruchi chuku via RPD a > > ?crit : > > > >> Hello Helen > >> I think the issue Taiwo is emphasizing on is educating the New comers > who > >> are not fortunate to be "Afrinic Fellows". > >> > >> Aleruchi > >> > >> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > >> > >> > >> On Wed, 3 Jul 2019 at 7:36 pm, hkariuki at isoc.or.ke > >> wrote: > >> Taiwo, > >> I am a first time Afrinic 30 fellow and attended the last AIS meeting in > >> Kampala and therefore by extension an Afrinic Alumni. I can confirm that > >> we were given summary and links to the policies before the meeting. We > >> also had a webinar before the meeting and materials emailed to us and > >> onsite discussions and after we join the mailing lists to continue > >> learning and contributing to policy discussions. > >> Regards, > >> Hellen > >> > >> > >> On 2019-07-02 16:25, Taiwo Oyewande wrote: > >> > Hi all, > >> > > >> > Taking a good look at this resource, it is obviously a summary of the > >> > policies to be discussed. > >> > > >> > Larus fellowship tends towards promoting the youth - students > >> > included-. I think this summary will be a good starting point for new > >> > members who are fresh in the policy development process. > >> > > >> > On this note, i will like to encourage Afrinic to emulate the > >> > foundation and come up with an official summary like this before every > >> > meeting to enable new and interested members get up to speed quickly. > >> > > >> > Cheers. > >> > > >> > Taiwo O > >> > > >> >> On Tue, 2 Jul 2019 at 20:36, Andrew Alston > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > >> >>> Wafa, > >> >>> > >> >>> So ? let me say this. I see a document here ? which lays out > >> >>> the policies ? and provides a perspective of problems, it also > >> >>> lists the pros and cons. Yes, Lazarus may have used the > >> >>> foundation to lobby for its position, but ? one of the things > >> >>> that I have long accepted in my life is ? if you believe in > >> >>> something ? you have to lobby for it ? and to be frank ? the > >> >>> summary that I see in this document ? is something that by and > >> >>> large ? should have been done long before they got around to it. > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> If I, as an individual, feel strongly about something, I am > >> >>> entirely free to go and advocate for my position. I am also > >> >>> entirely free to sponsor people to come to a public meeting ? > >> >>> and I am entirely free to choose those people as I so wish, if I > >> >>> choose the people who agree with me, well, that?s life ? but > >> >>> it certainly aint against the rules, it is the political nature of > >> >>> internet policy development. Do you think that similar does not > >> >>> happen elsewhere? People lobby for the positions that they care > >> >>> about. It happens in politics, it happens in life, and yet now we > >> >>> want to cry when someone else does the same thing. > >> >>> > >> >>> Let me also say ? it?s not like this hasn?t been happening > >> >>> before ? and I want to quote from the OIF website: _IOF > >> >>> ORGANISES POLITICAL ACTIVITIES AND ACTIONS OF MULTILATERAL > >> >>> COOPERATION THAT BENEFIT FRENCH-SPEAKING POPULATIONS.___ > >> >>> > >> >>> Yet ? this is an organization that for years has spent money > >> >>> filling the room with people ? and that statement does not say > >> >>> ? is of benefit to Africa ? it does not say is of benefit to > >> >>> the African continent ? it does not say is to the benefit of the > >> >>> continent ? it singles out a single demographic on the continent > >> >>> and says ? we do what we do for their benefit. Now, let me be > >> >>> very clear, if they wish to do that ? I?m actually ok with it > >> >>> ? though I admit I have waivered on this stance ? however, we > >> >>> cannot say ? because it?s a government political organization > >> >>> ? it?s ok ? but when a member chooses to have a foundation > >> >>> ? and sponsor people to the meetings ? and then lobby for the > >> >>> positions that member is passionate about ? suddenly its wrong. > >> >>> That is called hypocrisy. > >> >>> > >> >>> In Point Noire, I watched people walk to the microphone ? with > >> >>> slips of paper and read a comment on a policy ? and then go and > >> >>> sit down ? and the same happened in Botswana. Except, what I > >> >>> found was, when queried on the position that was taken at the > >> >>> microphone, the individual reading what they had off the paper, > >> >>> had patently obviously never read the policy and didn?t > >> >>> understand the position they were taking themselves. So who was > >> >>> behind that? And all of that ? is on video for the world to see > >> >>> ? but ? it was ok then ? suddenly it changes now because we > >> >>> don?t like the individual doing it? > >> >>> > >> >>> Sorry ? this isn?t the way it works ? and let me be clear > >> >>> ? Lu Heng is not a friend of mine, and in fact in Mauritius I > >> >>> had some pretty strong things to say to him to his face, in front > >> >>> of others who will testify to what I said to him ? however ? I > >> >>> respect his rights as a member to participate in what is > >> >>> essentially a democratic process, that means ? I respect his > >> >>> right to lobby for his views, I respect his right to put boots on > >> >>> the ground, and I respect his right to have his say. In the same > >> >>> way ? I respect the right of any member to do that ? and I > >> >>> respect the right of the members to then rebut what is said if > >> >>> they do not agree with it. It is through this lobbying position > >> >>> and through the back and forth that accompanies it, that great > >> >>> policy is born ? it is not through acquiescence, nor is it > >> >>> through the silencing of the rights of others. > >> >>> > >> >>> My view ? if anyone wants to come into the room and have their > >> >>> say ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people want to lobby > >> >>> their positions ? so be it ? that is bottom up. If people > >> >>> want to spend money running tv adverts about their positions for > >> >>> all I care ? so be it ? that is the nature of the democratic > >> >>> position. If people want to bus a thousand people who share their > >> >>> views ? again ? so be it ? that is the democratic process. > >> >>> However, it is the community who then need to rebut ? but ? > >> >>> the rebuttal should be on the policy itself. What I see here > >> >>> however, is a rebuttal of policy and a lobbying position taken on > >> >>> the *CONTENT* of the policy ? unlike what I have seen time and > >> >>> again in the meetings where the lobbying position has NOTHING to > >> >>> do with the content or the policy. > >> >>> > >> >>> So rather than malign Lazarus for their actions here ? quite > >> >>> frankly, reading this document, and as much as as I have said, Lu > >> >>> and I have some serious differences, I applaud Lazarus for the > >> >>> comprehensive work ? and I applaud them for taking a stance that > >> >>> was based on the policy and I embrace their right to lobby for > >> >>> their position in any way shape or form. That is not to say I > >> >>> agree with the positions taken in this document ? I will reserve > >> >>> my policy comments for the policies and based on my own > >> >>> interpretation of such ? but ? I embrace the fact that at > >> >>> least, it was done based on what was written, and not on personal > >> >>> relationships, personal attacks, demographics, or anything else. > >> >>> > >> >>> So ? to Lazarus ? thank you for a job well done in the fact > >> >>> that you lobbied your position based on the policies ? and left > >> >>> the other garbage behind, which is what we so often see. > >> >>> > >> >>> Finally ? again ? I respect the right to do what they did ? > >> >>> and > >> >>> > >> >>> _THAT IS DEMOCRATIC_ > >> >>> > >> >>> Thanks > >> >>> > >> >>> Andrew > >> >>> > >> >>> FROM: wafa DAHMANI > >> >>> SENT: Tuesday, 2 July 2019 12:30 > >> >>> TO: community-discuss at afrinic.net > >> >>> CC: rpd at afrinic.net > >> >>> SUBJECT: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship > >> >>> > >> >>> Hi > >> >>> > >> >>> It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus > >> >>> foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in > >> >>> Kampala, were given a confidential Education package on AFRINIC > >> >>> Number Resources Policy proposals detailed in the following link: > >> >>> > >> >>> https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation > >> >>> views of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG > >> >>> participants interventions on the proposals. > >> >>> > >> >>> The education package so proposed intends to condition these > >> >>> participants views on the proposals and their contributions at > >> >>> the PPM and after.... > >> >>> > >> >>> I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual > >> >>> willing to participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to > >> >>> know who is behind each source email address... only opinions > >> >>> expressed in the context of the PDP matter. The substance of > >> >>> contribution really matter. Diversity of views are encouraged. > >> >>> Lack of disagreement is more important than of agreement. Also > >> >>> PDP is not a matter of volume, repetition or persistence. > >> >>> > >> >>> RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear on these aspects of the rough > >> >>> consensus process. > >> >>> > >> >>> Section 6 > >> >>> > >> >>> One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough > >> >>> consensus. > >> >>> > >> >>> Section 7 > >> >>> > >> >>> Five people for and one hundred people against might still be > >> >>> rough consensus > >> >>> > >> >>> My African fellows, > >> >>> > >> >>> Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process > >> >>> is legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting was > >> >>> useful to you and allow you to identify the issues, understand > >> >>> what is going on and what Africa needs... I hope you?ve made > >> >>> your minds and now able to speak on your personal capacity.. > >> >>> > >> >>> The real education package is as below: > >> >>> > >> >>> ===== > >> >>> > >> >>> Proposal to establish AFRINIC > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >> > >> > > >> > http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997 > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> IANA report on AFRINIC (Accreditation) > >> >>> > >> >>> https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf > >> >>> > >> >>> AFRINIC constitution > >> >>> > >> >>> https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws > >> >>> > >> >>> Registration Service Agreement > >> >>> > >> >>> https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa > >> >>> > >> >>> AFRINIC policy manual > >> >>> > >> >>> https://afrinic.net/policy/manual > >> >>> > >> >>> AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM > >> >>> > >> >>> https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre > >> >>> > >> >>> AFRINIC PDP > >> >>> > >> >>> https://www.afrinic.net/policy > >> >>> > >> >>> Rough Consensus > >> >>> > >> >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282 > >> >>> > >> >>> AFRINIC current policy proposals > >> >>> > >> >>> https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals > >> >>> > >> >>> RiRs PDPs > >> >>> > >> >>> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/ > >> >>> > >> >>> RIR comparative policy overview > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >> https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/ > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> ============== > >> >>> > >> >>> Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way. > >> >>> > >> >>> Come build African Internet by Africans. > >> >>> > >> >>> As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation, > >> >>> afrinic member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of > >> >>> IPv4 is long established and discussed many times on this list. I > >> >>> hope the fellows would find these discussions in the archives. > >> >>> > >> >>> I call the attention of the board on the repetitive attempts of > >> >>> this resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid > >> >>> intentions... the provisions of the bylaws and RSA must > >> >>> carefully be applied to recall members to acceptable code of > >> >>> conduct. > >> >>> > >> >>> The African Internet community as well as the global Internet > >> >>> community must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy > >> >>> development process and operations. > >> >>> > >> >>> -Wafa _______________________________________________ > >> >>> Community-Discuss mailing list > >> >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > >> >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> > >> >> VIVIEN > >> >> LARUS CLOUD SERVICE LIMITED > >> >> p:+852 29888918 > >> >> f:+852 29888368 > >> >> e:a.v.p at laruscloudservice.net > >> >> w:laruscloudservice.net/ [1] > >> >> a:B5,11/F,TML Tower,No.3 Hoi Shing Road,Tsuen Wan,HKSAR > >> > > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list > >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > >> > > >> > > >> > Links: > >> > ------ > >> > [1] http://laruscloudservice.net/ > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Community-Discuss mailing list > >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> b > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> RPD mailing list > >> RPD at afrinic.net > >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> RPD mailing list > >> RPD at afrinic.net > >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd > >> > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/attachments/20190704/d32447e2/attachment.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > RPD mailing list > RPD at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd > > > ------------------------------ > > End of RPD Digest, Vol 154, Issue 53 > ************************************ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yakmutd at googlemail.com Thu Jul 4 16:39:02 2019 From: yakmutd at googlemail.com (Daniel Yakmut) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2019 17:39:02 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Letter of Appointment for Hago Dafalla In-Reply-To: <342820698.1905112.1562255955563@mail.yahoo.com> References: <342820698.1905112.1562255955563.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <342820698.1905112.1562255955563@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Congratulations, Hago. On Thu, Jul 4, 2019, 5:06 PM Hago Dafalla via RPD wrote: > Dear Friends > > I have been Appointment as a Regional Director for East Africa, for The > African ICT Foundation. Please find the attached Letter of Appointment for > your consideration. Attached is a press release for engagement. > > > Thanks > > Hago Dafalla > _______________________________________________ > RPD mailing list > RPD at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From abscoco at gmail.com Thu Jul 4 21:26:09 2019 From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain BAYA) Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2019 22:26:09 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] 2019 Board Elections: Fix against having sole candidates WAS Re: AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: <8a612bb7-2660-d5f5-1d5f-2e1b47773ba7@gmail.com> References: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com> <8a612bb7-2660-d5f5-1d5f-2e1b47773ba7@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9a733919-f4cb-7c1e-6a7d-12c5a8be1acf@gmail.com> {perhaps a bit off-topic :-/} Hi all, Please see below (inline)... Le mercredi 3 juillet 2019, Sunday Folayan > a ?crit?: Hello Ahmed Fadl and the community, Soliciting for votes is not really a problem, indeed if the proposed candidates have strengths that will be of use to the Board, AfriNIC Ltd and the community at large, their promoters and campaign team can work hard at members buy-in for their proposed candidates without running other candidates down. Sunday (or any other participant), how the electoral campaign is organised at AFRINIC ? Is there a particular, written, ethic to avoid unwanted situations ? How this part of the elections process can be also improved ? Thanks & Shalom, --sb. ? In this case, what I find disturbing are: 1. That there is an undocumented strategy 2. That the fielding of sole candidates by NOMCOM was part of that undocumented strategy. 3. That other strategies may probably have been deployed in the past. My take on all the issues are that: For 1. ... "Buyers Beware". Enough said. For 2, ... we need to fix that, and fix it as soon as possible. I propose the following fixes: a) NOMCOM should not only present volunteers, it should seek qualified and experienced candidates who will consent to serving on the Board. b) Those who will nominate candidates must seek the concurrence of the candidates before nominating, to eliminate the step of seeking the consent of the candidates after nominations. c) Where there is only one candidate after all said and done, the members should be able to reject such a candidate at the Ballot d) Where candidates are rejected, the incumbent should serve for a maximum of 90 more days, within which an online election should be conducted to fill the vacant seats Do we need to change the bylaws? I don't think so. The proposed fix can go into the AfriNIC election guideline, as allowed by the existing bylaw. It should be shared with the members and the community early, and approved promptly towards the next election. For item 3, ... Perhaps it is too early to comment. Let us grab some pop-corn and stayed tuned to this movie channel. Sunday. [...] -- -------------------------------------------------- Sunday Adekunle Folayan Managing Director General data Engineering Services (SKANNET) 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523 Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng , sfolayan at gmail.com --------------------------------------------------- -- Regards, Sylvain B. __ Website : -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 0x0387408365AC8594.asc Type: application/pgp-keys Size: 4826 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Thu Jul 4 21:49:52 2019 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2019 00:49:52 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] 2019 Board Elections: Fix against having sole candidates WAS Re: AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: <9a733919-f4cb-7c1e-6a7d-12c5a8be1acf@gmail.com> References: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com> <8a612bb7-2660-d5f5-1d5f-2e1b47773ba7@gmail.com> <9a733919-f4cb-7c1e-6a7d-12c5a8be1acf@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Jul 2019, 00:31 Sylvain BAYA, wrote: > > Is there a particular, written, ethic to avoid unwanted situations ? > There are existing guidelines and bylaws. We have had situations where two or more candidates on a slate were rejected in past elections rendering the seat empty with the board going on appointing volunteers to fill the space. We recently had cases of one/solo candidate and they got elected. If they were to be rejected, the bylaws empower the board to again appoint or the incumbent continue serving but only if they were not candidates for reelection. > How this part of the elections process can be also improved ? > Nomcom guidelines could perhaps allow for a minimum of three candidates. Noah > Thanks & Shalom, > --sb. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From brice at afrinic.net Thu Jul 4 22:15:08 2019 From: brice at afrinic.net (Brice ABBA) Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2019 02:15:08 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <62aa3b10-85d4-b46b-2bf5-59b1f25cefcb@afrinic.net> Dear Azekiel > Can you please provide us the list of all the mentors used during the > last Afrinic meeting? We don't have a list of mentors we only have one mentor per program and for AFRINIC30 the mentor was Miss Afi EDOH Regards, -- Mr Brice B. ABBA - Community Development Manager t: +230 403 51 00 | f: +230 466 6758 | tt: @afrinic | w:www.afrinic.net facebook.com/afrinic | flickr.com/afrinic | youtube.com/afrinicmedia ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Join us for AIS?19 in Kampala, Uganda from 9th to 21st June 2019 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 528 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From badru.ntege at nftconsult.com Fri Jul 5 04:04:10 2019 From: badru.ntege at nftconsult.com (Badru Ntege) Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2019 04:04:10 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani In-Reply-To: References: <1596679867.567581.1562168815318.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> <92B8D2EE-27F4-4320-9F5C-C53131E43C7E@liquidtelecom.com> <71CA8E04-00C6-4F6A-B6D6-A9217C0695E5@nftconsult.com> Message-ID: <595C0073-A790-40D3-96BA-D4AC380DC38C@nftconsult.com> Andrew Yes I will no always read all your emails since they are generally too long and use to many words to make a simple point. The main issue here is not about the rights of someone lobbying for a particular slate of candidates. But I see an attempt to make a point against an individual who volunteers her time to serve the community. We all have volunteered including you Andrew as a Board Member. In your time as board members I have searched my archives and I will share the bellow text from one of your emails that came into my inbox back in 2016. Thus my earlier reference of the ?Pot calling the Kettle Black? In my view we need to move away from character attacks and focus on positive aspects of growing and sustaining AfriNIC. The contents of the email bellow were your subjective views and we accepted your view as much as it was far from reality. Email Authored By Andrew Alston (board member at the time) Hi All, I?m going to take a bit of an unusual step for me here, as promised in earlier emails, and I am now ready to officially endorse certain candidates for the AfriNIC elections. I state openly that I do NOT yet know the entire slate, however, due to time limitations and knowing what I know about the candidates I refer to below, as well as at least some of the candidates running against them (which I have heard from those candidates running directly), I feel I?m in a position to take a strong and unequivocal stance here and am ready to state to the community at large my views on this. Hence, in the next AfriNIC election, there are three seats open, one independent seat, one north african seat and one west african seat. On the West African seat, I am endorsing Sunday Folayan. Sunday is the current chair of the AfriNIC board, and despite many trying circumstances in the year and half since he has taken the chair, AfriNIC has made tremendous progress. Indeed, in Pointe Noir we were credited with giving the community transparent information and financials for the first time in 10 years. Sunday and his leadership played a huge part in this and his institutional knowledge and the way he has run the board have been critical to the improved situation we are starting to find ourselves in. On the North African seat, I am endorsing Hytham Ek-Nakhal. Hytham is currently the deputy chair of the board, and again, in the year since he took that position, he has proved very capable and also carries deep institutional knowledge from a prolonged tenure on the board. I have found him to be fair, reasonable and willing to both have his views and debate the views of others in the search for a consensus approach. Hence, I strongly believe that his tenure on the board should continue. On the Independent seat, here I am endorsing Mike Silber, who many of you know. I do not know if the current board member for this seat is going to be running again, but irrespective of that my endorsement will stand, due to specific skills I believe the AfriNIC board requires. Mike has many many years in the industry, and his work with ICANN and within the addressing space is well documented and well respected. In addition to that, Mike is legally trained and that is something we desperately need within AfriNIC as we look at the bylaws, as we move into an era where there is a governance committee, there are bids of control and various other issues. It is that legal skill set that we are missing directly on the board (yes, we have legal council, but it is a very different thing to have someone who has that kind of legal knowledge actually sitting on the board). I need to also point out, in the event of the board losing both Sunday and Hytham, and the independent seat going to a weak candidate, AfriNIC will be in serious trouble. Firstly, I personally do not believe that the board has anyone who is anywhere close to as capable as Sunday or Hytham for the positions of chair and vice chair respectively, and whoever comes in could not take those positions no matter how strong, since those positions require institutional knowledge that comes from time served on the board. My reasoning for endorsing Mike is made plain above. As such, for those of you who are opting to issue proxies and wish to issue proxies to myself or via myself, this is how I will be voting. Those of you who are voting electronically, I encourage you when the slate comes out to study each and every candidate ? but I am confident that what I have said above will ring true, and I ask every member of this list to get out there and use your vote, either for one of these candidates or otherwise one of the others when the slate comes out ? but please, make sure you vote, either via proxy or via online or in person. I cannot stress how many critical issues are going to come up in the next year or two, and without a strong and independent board we could face serious issues. Please feel free to address any questions to me. As stated in previous emails, as soon as the proxy generation system is open, for those that wish to use that route, I will supply details on how to use it. Thanks Andrew From: Andrew Alston Date: Thursday, July 4, 2019 at 10:31 AM To: Badru Ntege , wafa DAHMANI , Paschal Ochang Cc: community-discuss Subject: RE: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani Badru, Yet again ? you have not read my emails. I fully the support the right to lobby in public forms I fully support the right of any individual to have their say I fully support the right of any member to change the rules using due process as defined I have said this, over and over again. I have also been very blunt about the fact that yes, I have lobbied, and I make no apology for that because I believe that the right to lobby in the pursuit of ones goals, and I believe that essentially, elections are political processes and democratic in nature, and democracy doesn?t work without that aspect of it. However, what I fundamentally disagree with ? is misrepresentation of who we represent ? something I have never done ? and I fundamentally disagree with people who are in a directly conflicted position taking a stand which deepens that conflict, especially when the neutrality directly relates to things that affect this community. I will quote from one of the emails I sent ? which was to an email list containing many members: I will quote from two separate emails that I have sent over the years to lobby in previous elections ? these were sent to email lists that were not AfriNIC ? they were not sent to individuals unsolicited ? and there are many on this list who can attest to the accuracy of these emails. Email 1: I am not going to tell any of you how to vote ? What I tell you above is my perspective, and yes, its biased towards what I have seen and how well I know the candidates. What I will say however, is that it is absolutely critical that the South African members get online and vote ? or show up at the meeting and vote ? or send proxies ? whichever ? but have your voice heard. As we move into a time when v4 is running out (AfriNIC is into its final /8), and when we move into an environment where so much is changing with that runout ? and particularly when we have managed to turn an organization around ? we need to ensure that we have strong candidates that represent the community and can keep the organization alive. Because without AfriNIC ? without a registry ? we end up in trouble ? and no one really wants the alternative scenarios. So what I will ask is, look at the candidates, consider them not from a geo-political perspective, not from a linguistic perspective, but consider them on the merits and what they have achieved ? and then vote as you feel. Their CV?s are all online. Email 2: As such, for those of you who are opting to issue proxies and wish to issue proxies to myself or via myself, this is how I will be voting. Those of you who are voting electronically, I encourage you when the slate comes out to study each and every candidate ? but I am confident that what I have said above will ring true, and I ask every member of this list to get out there and use your vote, either for one of these candidates or otherwise one of the others when the slate comes out ? but please, make sure you vote, either via proxy or via online or in person. I cannot stress how many critical issues are going to come up in the next year or two, and without a strong and independent board we could face serious issues. Both emails quote above are a matter of record for the world to see ? and here is the major difference ? a.) No where do I misrepresent who I am speaking for b.) I explicitly state ? these are MY views, accept them or reject them, but ? please vote ? because its important to have your voice heard. Had Wafa sent an email saying ?Hi, I?m Wafa, and these are my specific views on each candidate, and this is why I will be voting the way that I am, and if you like these choices, feel free to vote with me, but if you don?t, still have your say in the way you see fit?, I would be here, backing her to the hilt ? however, what I saw was a.) a misrepresentation by implication of who was represented and b.) a blatant display lacking of neutrality from the chair of the appeals committee ? particularly in light of the PDP and the position of co-chair ? and I believe that brings the integrity and neutrality of said appeals committee into question when it is critical that trust in that committee remains high, which is why I agree with Sander when he called for her to step down to maintain the integrity of the appeals process. So ? I see no inconsistency with what I have said in the last 48 hours or what I have said, or done, over the years. What I do see from you ? yet again ? is a highly selective reading of what I have said for your own purposes. Andrew From: Badru Ntege Sent: Thursday, 4 July 2019 07:03 To: Andrew Alston ; wafa DAHMANI ; Paschal Ochang Cc: community-discuss Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani Andrew The archives of a number of mailing lists you belong to have many similar emails authored by you prior to elections. We have also seen emails by you asking an entire community of ISPA not once but a number of times to act in a particular way. Supporting a particular slate of candidates is not new in AfriNIC nor is it new any election. And when you talk about neutrality ??? its like the Kettle calling the Pot Black. Anyone in our bottom up position is free to lobby for a particular outcome. As a board member you also lobbied and also ferried people to AGMM?s to strengthen your number of positions. (you have denied this many times so lets call it a standing allegation) The AfriNIC membership time and time have shown their ability to make up their minds in elections after listening to many different views either shared on the floor by candidates, in the corridors by supporters on through email. I see nothing wrong here at the moment. However, if the community thinks that something has to change we also have mechanisms in place to make the necessary changes to course correct. Regards [signature_1558140432] [signature_1470109083] From: Andrew Alston > Date: Wednesday, July 3, 2019 at 8:16 PM To: wafa DAHMANI >, Paschal Ochang > Cc: community-discuss > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani Wafa, While I agree you have the right to campaign for anyone you so please ? and I believe that is very much the case ? a.) Your email was read as an implication that the ASO was supporting said candidates ? which I don?t think anyone believes ? and the question has been asked in multiple regions to clarify this b.) As a member of the appeal committee ? you have to maintain a position of total neutrality ? this email clearly demonstrates that you are in no way neutral on issues inside the PDP ? since it advocates for the election of co-chairs with no reasons given why ? and requests immediate mobilization to meet ?our strategy?. This email casts serious aspersions on the neutrality of the appeals committee. Furthermore ? can you please clarify to this list ? what exactly is this strategy and who owns this strategy ? you email in this regard was explicit ? there is a strategy ? it is held by multiple individuals outside of the purview of the general community ? and it concerns the placement of members of the board and the PDP ? and I think it is only fair that if lobbying is being done ? it is transparent and open ? and as such ? I would like to know what this strategy is and where it comes from. This email however, was entirely and totally unacceptable in my eyes ? NOT because you lobbied ? I believe as I have said many times that this is your right. It is unacceptable because it implies positions on behalf of other groups who I for one do not believe share that position, it is unacceptable because it is a clear indication of lack of neutrality in a context where neutrality is required, and coming on the heels of what I view as a blatant and unfounded attack on a non-profit foundation ? well ? it really highlights certain things. So again ? myself, and I am sure others, would like to know about this strategy and who ?our? is in the context of ths. Thanks Andrew From: wafa DAHMANI > Date: Wednesday, 3 July 2019 at 18:50 To: Paschal Ochang > Cc: community-discuss > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani Hello All, I can campaign for anyone and its perfectly normal and I was speaking in my personal behalf. I understand that my salutations can be confusing, but I sent this email in my personal capacity. Being a volunteer at ASO - AC does not strip me off my rights to my personal opinions nor does it mean I can not campaign for my preferred candidates. In anycase, the ASO - AC has its own procedures and communication channels. Wafa Dahmani Member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member ________________________________ De: "Paschal Ochang" > ?: "community-discuss" >, "rpd" > Envoy?: Mercredi 3 Juillet 2019 16:09:18 Objet: [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani Hello all, this was posted under the thread of allegations against Larus Foundation so I did the honors of opening it as separate thread so that this two issues can be dealt with separately. This was posted as an allegation towards Wafa and the mail displays a act of lobbying. Can this honorable community be clarified on this allegations please. Dear, My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC. I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates: Board of Directors: North Africa (seat 1) Habin Youssef West Africa (seat 2) Ly Ousmane South Africa (seat 5) Mpisane Vika William East Africa (seat 6) Nkusi Robert Ford Non-regional (seat 7) Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye Election Number Resource Organization Number Council Mustapha Ben Jemaa Election Policy Development Working Group Komi Elitcha Sami Hassan Election Governance Committee Daniel Nanghaka Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy and in order to preserve AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right candidates for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all our efforts and vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for an adequate board the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very simple for all categories except the policy development Working group where we want you to mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates We strongly solicit your support Thank you Wafa Dahmani member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member _______________________________________________ RPD mailing list RPD at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 47431 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image002.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 20099 bytes Desc: image002.jpg URL: From badru.ntege at nftconsult.com Fri Jul 5 04:14:30 2019 From: badru.ntege at nftconsult.com (Badru Ntege) Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2019 04:14:30 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: <19FD3B48-D5EA-4504-BDC0-748D322668E9@consulintel.es> References: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com> <0911A471-DF02-49FF-96FE-2A9AC32D5BC1@consulintel.es> <19FD3B48-D5EA-4504-BDC0-748D322668E9@consulintel.es> Message-ID: <860068EB-47FA-4781-ABF3-600424904868@nftconsult.com> Jordi Curious to know the end in mind with your question?? Please elucidate BN From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss Reply-To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ Date: Thursday, July 4, 2019 at 12:11 PM To: Ahmed Fadl , "Community-Discuss at afrinic.net" Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Hi Ahmen, I mean before getting the email advertisings the candidates, have you personally provided your email to Wafa? Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 4/7/19 10:06, "Ahmed Fadl" > escribi?: Hi Jordi Already my mail provided for all community members Thank you From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ [mailto:jordi.palet at consulintel.es] Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 10:00 AM To: Ahmed Fadl ; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Hi Ahmed, Can you confirm if you have provided your email to Wafa and if that?s the case, if it was for discussing about candidates? Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 4/7/19 9:32, "Ahmed Fadl" > escribi?: Thank you Sami for your introduction Let me also introduce myself My name is Ahmed Fadl, I?m working in healthcare nonprofit organization called children cancer hospital Egypt (57357), it is curing our patients with free of charge, my role is healthcare applications director. Our hospital is one of the biggest hospital in the world in this specializations. Also I?m responsible for the IP pools of our organization so I joined Afrinic community. My point from my mail is we have to know the plan and strategy for every person before we vote for them. I noticed that all the list by Wafaa from the same region why? I don?t know The characteristics of the board members should include diversification because we need all Africa regions to take all benefits and increase all regions knowledge and skills. This is what I mean by my mail. Finally welcome everyone has good plan for developing my country and all African countries. Also all respect for community members. Thank you From: Sami Salih [mailto:sami.salih at outlook.com] Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 6:14 AM To: Noah >; Ahmed Fadl > Cc: Community-Discuss at afrinic.net; wafa Dahmani > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Salam I hope you reply Ahmed, since we have very bad experience with unknown fellows who come once to raise suspicious issue then disappear ! Looking for your positive continuous engagement. BR Dr. Sami H.O. Salih Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST Head of R&D, NTC, SUDAN President of SDv6TF T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 ________________________________ From: Noah > Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 1:41 AM To: Ahmed Fadl Cc: Community-Discuss at afrinic.net; wafa Dahmani Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Dear Ahmed First and foremost, welcome on-board this community mailing list since I am seeing you post for the first time ever and I hope you will continue to engage in various discussions as a member of the community now. So, I have been catching up with email and I would like to also contribute to the discussion by stating a few things in reference to people being biased in general. Let me introduce myself first. I personally work for AS37100 a member of AfriNIC, I was popularly elected by the community as a volunteer to the AfriNIC ASO - AC and my term ends next year in 2020, I am a secretary general of an ISP association in my country of residence, and I am generally involved within the AFRICAN internet community as a volunteer with various non-profit organizations because voluntary work is fulfilling. However, whatever I say here often is from a personal point of view unless I state otherwise. I am telling you all this because, with all my years of engagement in this community, I have always spoken in my own personal capacity that is why I use my own personal email address. Nothing I say is ever a representation of any of the organization I am affiliated with, though so often, my affiliations have been used by some members of this community to attack my personal character, sometime as far as going after my employment just because of my personal views on various matters pertaining the African Internet Community. What I am trying to say is that, Wafa as a community member, just like me, so often speaks on her own personal capacity and I believe she has since clarified this to you and the community. Therefore, I doubt its "bias"as you put it ...... and my view of that email from her to you is basically an elections campaign for a candidate and candidates of her choice and in the end, her efforts seems to have paid off as some of the candidate she was supporting for the Northern Africa seat Dr.Habib ended up getting the highest votes ever of all candidates in the entire board elections. I was on the ground in Kampala and Habib did well also in terms of campaigning, so did other candidates and I can understand why he was Wafa's choice and and her strategy for the Northern Africa candidate for board election did indeed work. That is what good mobilization in campaigns does. In fact just in the same elections, there was a very well coordinated campaign that involved among other things, mudslinging of a specific candidate by some members of the various constituencies within the community and this also perfectly OK. Folks can go as far as using print media and sometime private lobbying through mailing lists and chat rooms. Its the nature of politicking and campaigns are tough and sometimes they get ugly, after all, not all candidates are supposed to be liked by the entire electorate yet politicking still goes on. This is basically pure politics 101 and its perfectly acceptable and normal and as they say, politics is part of daily life and so many of us in this community have been party to this and its nothing new. I submit to you that, being a member of, say, the AfriNIC appeals committee, or ASO-AC or GC ...you name it, does not stop someone from having their own subjective views nor does it stop them from being involved in community politics at a personal level. Remember above and beyond, we are all part of the Internet community before our various affiliations and after being party to these affiliations, we continue to be members of the internet community and remain in this community. What really matters is respect for each other and how we treat each other even when we disagree because in the end, its through this politics that we progress as we continue to individually contribute, improve and resolve some of our challenges. Cheers and I look forward to more engagement with you Mr.Ahmed. Noah On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 2:17 PM Ahmed Fadl > wrote: Hi Wafa, Thanks for your email. I, among other members of AFRINIC in Egypt, received the following email from you many times. I wondered at that time why should I vote for these candidates specially for those in Eastern and Southern regions while each one was the sole candidate in his region. I quote this from your email "Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy ...." what is your strategy and who are you ? If you are talking about biasing the community, So, do you consider your email as a "member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC." fall under what ? I sent this mail many time but I don?t know why I can?t find this mail on community Thanks, Ahmed Fadl From: wafa Dahmani [mailto:wafatn7604 at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 1:05 PM To: wafa Dahmani > Subject: AFRINIC Borad Elections Dear, My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC. I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates: Board of Directors: North Africa (seat 1) ? Habin Youssef West Africa (seat 2) ? Ly Ousmane South Africa (seat 5) ? Mpisane Vika William East Africa (seat 6) ? Nkusi Robert Ford Non-regional (seat 7) ? Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye Election Number Resource Organization Number Council ? Mustapha Ben Jemaa Election Policy Development Working Group ? Komi Elitcha ? Sami Hassan Election Governance Committee ? Daniel Nanghaka Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy and in order to preserve AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right candidates for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all our efforts and vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for an adequate board the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very simple for all categories except the policy development Working group where we want you to mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates We strongly solicit your support Thank you Wafa Dahmani member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From abscoco at gmail.com Fri Jul 5 05:00:58 2019 From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain BAYA) Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2019 06:00:58 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] 2019 Board Elections: Fix against having sole candidates WAS Re: AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: References: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com> <8a612bb7-2660-d5f5-1d5f-2e1b47773ba7@gmail.com> <9a733919-f4cb-7c1e-6a7d-12c5a8be1acf@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0cc78c7c-fe8c-d078-9dd0-c49b0f429428@gmail.com> Hi all, Comments inline, please. Le 7/4/2019 ? 10:49 PM, Noah a ?crit?: > > > On Fri, 5 Jul 2019, 00:31 Sylvain BAYA, > wrote: > > > Is there a particular, written, ethic to avoid unwanted situations ? > > > > There are existing guidelines and bylaws. Thanks Noah, i mean particulary a rule which could help to fairly address the new "issue" raised by some ones onlist. ...i went through this document [1] and i see that only the section 6 provides information about what can be called election campaign (so, to be added ?). > We have had situations where two or more candidates on a slate were > rejected in past elections rendering the seat empty with the board > going on appointing volunteers to fill the space. > > We recently had cases of one/solo candidate and they got elected. If > they were to be rejected, the bylaws empower the board to again > appoint or the incumbent continue serving but only if they were not > candidates for reelection. Yes, i'm already aware of these cases. > How this part of the elections process can be also improved ? > > Nomcom guidelines could perhaps allow for a minimum of three candidates. ...possible way to go, but my question was a bit off-topic :-/ I think, there is some need to somewhat clearly define how candidates should organize their elections campaign. Something like an election campaign ethical guidelines :-/ I went, also, through this Nomcom guidelines [2] then i have seen no such a provision. If the community agrees with the idea, the BoD could add some specific guidelines, about?election campaign ethic, in section 6 of the BoD Election Process and Guidelines [1]. __ [1]: Board of Directors (BoD) Election Process and Guidelines (20181126) [2]: AFRINIC Guidelines for ad hocNomCom for Board seat 2 election,May 2018 Shalom, --sb. > > Noah > > > > Thanks & Shalom, > --sb. > -- Regards, Sylvain B. __ Website : -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 0x0387408365AC8594.asc Type: application/pgp-keys Size: 4826 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From arthur at afrinic.net Fri Jul 5 06:20:37 2019 From: arthur at afrinic.net (Arthur Carindal) Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2019 10:20:37 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <19A41891-2EB3-4C71-91C0-D9ED899F9EB7@afrinic.net> Dear Mr Jehovahseun, We hope you are doing well. Following some statements you made in the trail of emails exchanged below, kindly allow us to bring a clarification on these matters. > Third, you did not include that fact that some of the mentors appointed by AFRInIC are authors of policies and they used the fellows to push their polices and agenda. If you are referring to Mr Elitcha Komi, please note that this latter was an AFRINIC fellow in 2015. During his fellowship and thereafter, Mr Elitcha Komi, enriched of his experience at AFRINIC Public meeting, has been involved in the PDP (Policy Discussion Process) and had been a co-author of the IPv4 Resources transfer within the AFRINIC Region, which was adopted by the community and being implemented. As such, AFRINIC considers this achievement as an example of fruitful AFRINIC?s engagement with its community and that is reason Mr Elitcha was appointed returning fellow in 2017 to share his experience with new AFRINIC Fellows. > Then you never included the fact that Afrinic fellows via the whataps group were told to vote for a particular Candidate as the PDP chair. There is Whatsapp group for new and Returning Fellows group where they exchange their experiences and opinions on any matter they find relevant. Under no circumstances AFRINIC gave instruction to vote for any candidate or support any policy. Keeping our position of neutrality, we, however, encourage fellows, be they returning or new, to be active and always be constructive on the community discussion mailing lists. > AFRINIC fellows were used by some to achieve thier aim. We are not aware of such situations. We will be grateful if you can share more information and evidences so we will take appropriate actions to address same. > There is a serious need to review how fellows emerge and the criteria used in appointing mentors( A story for another day). Some candidates were provided access to the candidates for the PDP chair under guise of being an ex fellow. Anyway don't let me digress too much the discussion here is about WAFA's conduct and we leave other issues for another day. Please find below the criteria being used by AFRINIC Fellows Committee to select AFRINIC Returning Fellows. Be a former AFRINIC fellow (with no limitation) Be a former returning fellow (with no limitation) Demonstrate participation on the draft of any policy proposal Demonstrate participation on the draft on any public comments on any AFRINIC document Participate remotely and/or live to at least 2 policy meetings after being selected AFRINIC's fellow Demonstrate clear and referenced contribution toward his country and Africa (a blog would be a good start) Demonstrate useful contribution and permanent presence on the AFRINIC mailing list Demonstrate how you shared what you've learnt during the program he has attended Demonstrate useful contribution over the fellowship social group Demonstrate willingness to help the fellowship comity over social media and all However we are open to any suggestions that may help to improve the process. > Some candidates were provided access to the candidates for the PDP chair under guise of being an ex fellow. As PDP chair is a position any member of AFRINIC community including AFRINIC fellows may apply for , we encourage any AFRINIC fellow willing to serve this community to apply to any open position at the AFRINIC governance structure. Thanking you for your cooperation Best Regards _______________________________________________________________ Arthur Carindal N. Head of Stakeholder Engagement , AFRINIC Ltd. t: +230 403 5100 | f: +230 466 6758 | tt: @afrinic | w: www.afrinic.net facebook.com/afrinic | flickr.com/afrinic | youtube.com/afrinicmedia _______________________________________________________________ > On 4 Jul 2019, at 00:21, 94cm4n . wrote: > > Sorry I meant to post to the community-discuss. > > Jehovahseun > > On Wed, 3 Jul 2019, 9:18 PM 94cm4n ., > wrote: > > Dear Caleb, > I think Taiwo decided not to respond to you cos just like your questions to all the PDP chair candidates in Kampala (in which none of them responded too),it does not worth a reply. However i think I can dignify you with a response so that you don't think too much as to why people don't respond to you and start thinking too much of the fact that it seams you live in another planet. > First of all, you don't work for Afrinic and not the spokespersons for AFRINIC. > Secondly, Taiwo didn't talk about the fellows and you went off point. > Third, you did not include that fact that some of the mentors appointed by AFRInIC are authors of policies and they used the fellows to push their polices and agenda. Then you never included the fact that Afrinic fellows via the whataps group were told to vote for a particular Candidate as the PDP chair. > @ Heleen and other fellows? is this not True. > AFRINIC fellows were used by some to achieve thier aim. There is a serious need to review how fellows emerge and the criteria used in appointing mentors( A story for another day). Some candidates were provided access to the candidates for the PDP chair under guise of being an ex fellow. Anyway don't let me digress too much the discussion here is about WAFA's conduct and we leave other issues for another day. > > Regards > Jehovahseun > > On Wed, 3 Jul 2019, 8:56 PM , > wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alan.barrett at afrinic.net Fri Jul 5 08:13:58 2019 From: alan.barrett at afrinic.net (Alan Barrett) Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2019 12:13:58 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: <5ACD5EA8-9FCE-4EBC-896A-5488FB1D52DB@consulintel.es> References: <59F8813D-32D2-4A91-997D-867579439B76@consulintel.es> <5ACD5EA8-9FCE-4EBC-896A-5488FB1D52DB@consulintel.es> Message-ID: <770CD949-AAEC-4B28-9A75-A2D047FA3AED@afrinic.net> > On 3 Jul 2019, at 15:50, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote: > > I?m angrier about this as much as I think on it again. > > Can the board and the staff investigate this? > > Can all the people that got those emails confirm if they have provided voluntarily their emails or if they have participated in Afrinic lists, or if those emails are part of their Afrinic contacts, in order to understand if this personal data (emails are personal data), have been collected from Afrinic internal databases. There is no reasonable way for AFRINIC staff to investigate whether the recipients had agreed to receive the messages sent by Wafa Dahmani. There is also no reasonable way for staff to investigate whether email addresses were collected from the public WHOIS database. There is no non-public AFRINIC database that could have been used. Regards, Alan Barrett From noah at neo.co.tz Fri Jul 5 08:51:20 2019 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2019 11:51:20 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: <93D7F2FF-40C7-45CB-AEDC-EA833D16F6C9@consulintel.es> References: <59F8813D-32D2-4A91-997D-867579439B76@consulintel.es> <5ACD5EA8-9FCE-4EBC-896A-5488FB1D52DB@consulintel.es> <93D7F2FF-40C7-45CB-AEDC-EA833D16F6C9@consulintel.es> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 1:42 AM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss < community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > Hi Noah, > > > > I?m sure we all have contacts from lots of people from the community, but > we use those contacts for the reason they have been provided, is not lawful > to use those for anything else. > I have sent some of my contacts an emails that were not related to the original reasons the email was provided for. I have received emails from my contacts and people who are not my contact. I even receive calls from people I don't know and who are not my in my mobile phone contact. If I found the email reasonable, I act on it otherwise I delete it, simple as that. If you don't like the email, send it to the SPAM/JUNK email, simple as that. If you don't like the phone call, drop it. People share other peoples contacts email/phones and people ask other people about other peoples contacts. In my country, I even receive presidential campaign text messages and sometime from even member of parliament requesting for my vote in the national elections. Candidates and their supports always go so far in outreach activities in order to consolidate support from different constituencies for their preferred candidate and its the nature of political campaigns world over. If the same email or call is made frequently, then that is a different story. Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From seun.ojedeji at gmail.com Fri Jul 5 08:59:44 2019 From: seun.ojedeji at gmail.com (Seun Ojedeji) Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2019 09:59:44 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Letter of Appointment for Hago Dafalla In-Reply-To: <342820698.1905112.1562255955563@mail.yahoo.com> References: <342820698.1905112.1562255955563.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <342820698.1905112.1562255955563@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I have seen this same mail sent to many list, am not sure why this is relevant on any of the AFRINIC lists nor the other lists where I have seen it. In view of this I wonder if this is actually some form of spamming, perhaps Hago didn't send this Regards Sent from my mobile Kindly excuse brevity and typos On Thu, 4 Jul 2019, 17:02 Hago Dafalla via RPD, wrote: > Dear Friends > > I have been Appointment as a Regional Director for East Africa, for The > African ICT Foundation. Please find the attached Letter of Appointment for > your consideration. Attached is a press release for engagement. > > > Thanks > > Hago Dafalla > _______________________________________________ > RPD mailing list > RPD at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com Fri Jul 5 10:20:52 2019 From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston) Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2019 10:20:52 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani In-Reply-To: <595C0073-A790-40D3-96BA-D4AC380DC38C@nftconsult.com> References: <1596679867.567581.1562168815318.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> <92B8D2EE-27F4-4320-9F5C-C53131E43C7E@liquidtelecom.com> <71CA8E04-00C6-4F6A-B6D6-A9217C0695E5@nftconsult.com> <595C0073-A790-40D3-96BA-D4AC380DC38C@nftconsult.com> Message-ID: Again, Please read what that email said ? this is how *I* will be voting ? and if you CHOOSE to vote this way ? this is why I think it?s a good idea ? if you are NOT voting ? please vote in an appropriate manner. Furthermore ? never ONCE in that email did I refer to my position as a board member ? nor did I use my board position to promote any candidate. I stated opinions, I sent an email in my personal capacity, and I said ? this is my endorsement and why. I never implied I was reprsenative of the board, I never signed my email as such, and I stand by the email. But believe what you will Badru, you always do ? Thanks Andrew From: Badru Ntege Sent: Friday, 5 July 2019 07:04 To: Andrew Alston ; wafa DAHMANI ; Paschal Ochang Cc: community-discuss Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani Andrew Yes I will no always read all your emails since they are generally too long and use to many words to make a simple point. The main issue here is not about the rights of someone lobbying for a particular slate of candidates. But I see an attempt to make a point against an individual who volunteers her time to serve the community. We all have volunteered including you Andrew as a Board Member. In your time as board members I have searched my archives and I will share the bellow text from one of your emails that came into my inbox back in 2016. Thus my earlier reference of the ?Pot calling the Kettle Black? In my view we need to move away from character attacks and focus on positive aspects of growing and sustaining AfriNIC. The contents of the email bellow were your subjective views and we accepted your view as much as it was far from reality. Email Authored By Andrew Alston (board member at the time) Hi All, I?m going to take a bit of an unusual step for me here, as promised in earlier emails, and I am now ready to officially endorse certain candidates for the AfriNIC elections. I state openly that I do NOT yet know the entire slate, however, due to time limitations and knowing what I know about the candidates I refer to below, as well as at least some of the candidates running against them (which I have heard from those candidates running directly), I feel I?m in a position to take a strong and unequivocal stance here and am ready to state to the community at large my views on this. Hence, in the next AfriNIC election, there are three seats open, one independent seat, one north african seat and one west african seat. On the West African seat, I am endorsing Sunday Folayan. Sunday is the current chair of the AfriNIC board, and despite many trying circumstances in the year and half since he has taken the chair, AfriNIC has made tremendous progress. Indeed, in Pointe Noir we were credited with giving the community transparent information and financials for the first time in 10 years. Sunday and his leadership played a huge part in this and his institutional knowledge and the way he has run the board have been critical to the improved situation we are starting to find ourselves in. On the North African seat, I am endorsing Hytham Ek-Nakhal. Hytham is currently the deputy chair of the board, and again, in the year since he took that position, he has proved very capable and also carries deep institutional knowledge from a prolonged tenure on the board. I have found him to be fair, reasonable and willing to both have his views and debate the views of others in the search for a consensus approach. Hence, I strongly believe that his tenure on the board should continue. On the Independent seat, here I am endorsing Mike Silber, who many of you know. I do not know if the current board member for this seat is going to be running again, but irrespective of that my endorsement will stand, due to specific skills I believe the AfriNIC board requires. Mike has many many years in the industry, and his work with ICANN and within the addressing space is well documented and well respected. In addition to that, Mike is legally trained and that is something we desperately need within AfriNIC as we look at the bylaws, as we move into an era where there is a governance committee, there are bids of control and various other issues. It is that legal skill set that we are missing directly on the board (yes, we have legal council, but it is a very different thing to have someone who has that kind of legal knowledge actually sitting on the board). I need to also point out, in the event of the board losing both Sunday and Hytham, and the independent seat going to a weak candidate, AfriNIC will be in serious trouble. Firstly, I personally do not believe that the board has anyone who is anywhere close to as capable as Sunday or Hytham for the positions of chair and vice chair respectively, and whoever comes in could not take those positions no matter how strong, since those positions require institutional knowledge that comes from time served on the board. My reasoning for endorsing Mike is made plain above. As such, for those of you who are opting to issue proxies and wish to issue proxies to myself or via myself, this is how I will be voting. Those of you who are voting electronically, I encourage you when the slate comes out to study each and every candidate ? but I am confident that what I have said above will ring true, and I ask every member of this list to get out there and use your vote, either for one of these candidates or otherwise one of the others when the slate comes out ? but please, make sure you vote, either via proxy or via online or in person. I cannot stress how many critical issues are going to come up in the next year or two, and without a strong and independent board we could face serious issues. Please feel free to address any questions to me. As stated in previous emails, as soon as the proxy generation system is open, for those that wish to use that route, I will supply details on how to use it. Thanks Andrew From: Andrew Alston > Date: Thursday, July 4, 2019 at 10:31 AM To: Badru Ntege >, wafa DAHMANI >, Paschal Ochang > Cc: community-discuss > Subject: RE: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani Badru, Yet again ? you have not read my emails. I fully the support the right to lobby in public forms I fully support the right of any individual to have their say I fully support the right of any member to change the rules using due process as defined I have said this, over and over again. I have also been very blunt about the fact that yes, I have lobbied, and I make no apology for that because I believe that the right to lobby in the pursuit of ones goals, and I believe that essentially, elections are political processes and democratic in nature, and democracy doesn?t work without that aspect of it. However, what I fundamentally disagree with ? is misrepresentation of who we represent ? something I have never done ? and I fundamentally disagree with people who are in a directly conflicted position taking a stand which deepens that conflict, especially when the neutrality directly relates to things that affect this community. I will quote from one of the emails I sent ? which was to an email list containing many members: I will quote from two separate emails that I have sent over the years to lobby in previous elections ? these were sent to email lists that were not AfriNIC ? they were not sent to individuals unsolicited ? and there are many on this list who can attest to the accuracy of these emails. Email 1: I am not going to tell any of you how to vote ? What I tell you above is my perspective, and yes, its biased towards what I have seen and how well I know the candidates. What I will say however, is that it is absolutely critical that the South African members get online and vote ? or show up at the meeting and vote ? or send proxies ? whichever ? but have your voice heard. As we move into a time when v4 is running out (AfriNIC is into its final /8), and when we move into an environment where so much is changing with that runout ? and particularly when we have managed to turn an organization around ? we need to ensure that we have strong candidates that represent the community and can keep the organization alive. Because without AfriNIC ? without a registry ? we end up in trouble ? and no one really wants the alternative scenarios. So what I will ask is, look at the candidates, consider them not from a geo-political perspective, not from a linguistic perspective, but consider them on the merits and what they have achieved ? and then vote as you feel. Their CV?s are all online. Email 2: As such, for those of you who are opting to issue proxies and wish to issue proxies to myself or via myself, this is how I will be voting. Those of you who are voting electronically, I encourage you when the slate comes out to study each and every candidate ? but I am confident that what I have said above will ring true, and I ask every member of this list to get out there and use your vote, either for one of these candidates or otherwise one of the others when the slate comes out ? but please, make sure you vote, either via proxy or via online or in person. I cannot stress how many critical issues are going to come up in the next year or two, and without a strong and independent board we could face serious issues. Both emails quote above are a matter of record for the world to see ? and here is the major difference ? a.) No where do I misrepresent who I am speaking for b.) I explicitly state ? these are MY views, accept them or reject them, but ? please vote ? because its important to have your voice heard. Had Wafa sent an email saying ?Hi, I?m Wafa, and these are my specific views on each candidate, and this is why I will be voting the way that I am, and if you like these choices, feel free to vote with me, but if you don?t, still have your say in the way you see fit?, I would be here, backing her to the hilt ? however, what I saw was a.) a misrepresentation by implication of who was represented and b.) a blatant display lacking of neutrality from the chair of the appeals committee ? particularly in light of the PDP and the position of co-chair ? and I believe that brings the integrity and neutrality of said appeals committee into question when it is critical that trust in that committee remains high, which is why I agree with Sander when he called for her to step down to maintain the integrity of the appeals process. So ? I see no inconsistency with what I have said in the last 48 hours or what I have said, or done, over the years. What I do see from you ? yet again ? is a highly selective reading of what I have said for your own purposes. Andrew From: Badru Ntege > Sent: Thursday, 4 July 2019 07:03 To: Andrew Alston >; wafa DAHMANI >; Paschal Ochang > Cc: community-discuss > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani Andrew The archives of a number of mailing lists you belong to have many similar emails authored by you prior to elections. We have also seen emails by you asking an entire community of ISPA not once but a number of times to act in a particular way. Supporting a particular slate of candidates is not new in AfriNIC nor is it new any election. And when you talk about neutrality ??? its like the Kettle calling the Pot Black. Anyone in our bottom up position is free to lobby for a particular outcome. As a board member you also lobbied and also ferried people to AGMM?s to strengthen your number of positions. (you have denied this many times so lets call it a standing allegation) The AfriNIC membership time and time have shown their ability to make up their minds in elections after listening to many different views either shared on the floor by candidates, in the corridors by supporters on through email. I see nothing wrong here at the moment. However, if the community thinks that something has to change we also have mechanisms in place to make the necessary changes to course correct. Regards [signature_1558140432] [signature_1470109083] From: Andrew Alston > Date: Wednesday, July 3, 2019 at 8:16 PM To: wafa DAHMANI >, Paschal Ochang > Cc: community-discuss > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani Wafa, While I agree you have the right to campaign for anyone you so please ? and I believe that is very much the case ? a.) Your email was read as an implication that the ASO was supporting said candidates ? which I don?t think anyone believes ? and the question has been asked in multiple regions to clarify this b.) As a member of the appeal committee ? you have to maintain a position of total neutrality ? this email clearly demonstrates that you are in no way neutral on issues inside the PDP ? since it advocates for the election of co-chairs with no reasons given why ? and requests immediate mobilization to meet ?our strategy?. This email casts serious aspersions on the neutrality of the appeals committee. Furthermore ? can you please clarify to this list ? what exactly is this strategy and who owns this strategy ? you email in this regard was explicit ? there is a strategy ? it is held by multiple individuals outside of the purview of the general community ? and it concerns the placement of members of the board and the PDP ? and I think it is only fair that if lobbying is being done ? it is transparent and open ? and as such ? I would like to know what this strategy is and where it comes from. This email however, was entirely and totally unacceptable in my eyes ? NOT because you lobbied ? I believe as I have said many times that this is your right. It is unacceptable because it implies positions on behalf of other groups who I for one do not believe share that position, it is unacceptable because it is a clear indication of lack of neutrality in a context where neutrality is required, and coming on the heels of what I view as a blatant and unfounded attack on a non-profit foundation ? well ? it really highlights certain things. So again ? myself, and I am sure others, would like to know about this strategy and who ?our? is in the context of ths. Thanks Andrew From: wafa DAHMANI > Date: Wednesday, 3 July 2019 at 18:50 To: Paschal Ochang > Cc: community-discuss > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani Hello All, I can campaign for anyone and its perfectly normal and I was speaking in my personal behalf. I understand that my salutations can be confusing, but I sent this email in my personal capacity. Being a volunteer at ASO - AC does not strip me off my rights to my personal opinions nor does it mean I can not campaign for my preferred candidates. In anycase, the ASO - AC has its own procedures and communication channels. Wafa Dahmani Member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member ________________________________ De: "Paschal Ochang" > ?: "community-discuss" >, "rpd" > Envoy?: Mercredi 3 Juillet 2019 16:09:18 Objet: [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani Hello all, this was posted under the thread of allegations against Larus Foundation so I did the honors of opening it as separate thread so that this two issues can be dealt with separately. This was posted as an allegation towards Wafa and the mail displays a act of lobbying. Can this honorable community be clarified on this allegations please. Dear, My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC. I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates: Board of Directors: North Africa (seat 1) Habin Youssef West Africa (seat 2) Ly Ousmane South Africa (seat 5) Mpisane Vika William East Africa (seat 6) Nkusi Robert Ford Non-regional (seat 7) Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye Election Number Resource Organization Number Council Mustapha Ben Jemaa Election Policy Development Working Group Komi Elitcha Sami Hassan Election Governance Committee Daniel Nanghaka Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy and in order to preserve AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right candidates for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all our efforts and vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for an adequate board the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very simple for all categories except the policy development Working group where we want you to mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates We strongly solicit your support Thank you Wafa Dahmani member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member _______________________________________________ RPD mailing list RPD at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: image004.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 19966 bytes Desc: image004.jpg URL: From mirriamlauren at yahoo.com Fri Jul 5 12:43:50 2019 From: mirriamlauren at yahoo.com (Mirriam) Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2019 12:43:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against W In-Reply-To: References: <1596679867.567581.1562168815318.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> <92B8D2EE-27F4-4320-9F5C-C53131E43C7E@liquidtelecom.com> <71CA8E04-00C6-4F6A-B6D6-A9217C0695E5@nftconsult.com> <595C0073-A790-40D3-96BA-D4AC380DC38C@nftconsult.com> Message-ID: <2010046842.2086490.1562330630785@mail.yahoo.com> Hi guys So I have been following these discussions and what i have noted is, some community members accusing others for something they also do.?Wafa clarified earlier that she was lobbying in her personal capacity for her preferred candidates from Northern Africa and others. And Mr.Dewole was also lobbying for his preferred board candidates Seun and Adewale within Nigeria. And Andrew Alston was lobbying for his preferred board candidates Sunday, Haitham and Silber in the past elections.? Seems to me that different members from the community are also engaged in lobbying from what I have read with each individual stating their own reasons and plans why they prefer those candidates.?? Elections are over. We should concentrate on other important issues and maybe every lobbyist out there can revisit their lobbying activities when election season opens again.? I don't see anything constructive from this discussion other than the fact that it has diverted attention from the email Wafa sent in an attempt to help new members of the community to get knowledge about the PDP . As for Larus Foundation Fellowship issue which Wafa raised earlier before this confusion of lobbying,? I think Afrinic needs to intervene since they run fellowship programs? and show leadership so that the PDP is not abused further by other third parties. Third parties can directly work with Afrinic to remove doubt from the community. Mirriam. Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Fri, Jul 5, 2019 at 1:22 PM, Andrew Alston wrote: _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: Untitled URL: From Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net Fri Jul 5 13:19:08 2019 From: Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net (Omo Oaiya) Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2019 14:19:08 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against W In-Reply-To: <2010046842.2086490.1562330630785@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1596679867.567581.1562168815318.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> <92B8D2EE-27F4-4320-9F5C-C53131E43C7E@liquidtelecom.com> <71CA8E04-00C6-4F6A-B6D6-A9217C0695E5@nftconsult.com> <595C0073-A790-40D3-96BA-D4AC380DC38C@nftconsult.com> <2010046842.2086490.1562330630785@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 5 Jul 2019 at 13:45, Mirriam via Community-Discuss < community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > Hi guys > > So I have been following these discussions and what i have noted is, some > community members accusing others for something they also do. > > Wafa clarified earlier that she was lobbying in her personal capacity for > her preferred candidates from Northern Africa and others. And Mr.Dewole was > also lobbying for his preferred board candidates Seun and Adewale within > Nigeria. And Andrew Alston was lobbying for his preferred board candidates > Sunday, Haitham and Silber in the past elections. > > Seems to me that different members from the community are also engaged in > lobbying from what I have read with each individual stating their own > reasons and plans why they prefer those candidates. > > Elections are over. We should concentrate on other important issues and > maybe every lobbyist out there can revisit their lobbying activities when > election season opens again. > > I don't see anything constructive from this discussion other than the fact > that it has diverted attention from the email Wafa sent in an attempt to > help new members of the community to get knowledge about the PDP . > > As for Larus Foundation Fellowship issue which Wafa raised earlier before > this confusion of lobbying, I think Afrinic needs to intervene since they > run fellowship programs and show leadership so that the PDP is not abused > further by other third parties. Third parties can directly work with > Afrinic to remove doubt from the community. > > Mirriam. > > > Nice summary. Hopefully, we can now move forward to productive discussions and make corrections where we think they are needed. I like the idea of ALL fellowship support channelled through AFRINIC. This can be coupled with the more elaborate newcomer arrangements that have been proposed by some. Omo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hkariuki at isoc.or.ke Fri Jul 5 13:39:54 2019 From: hkariuki at isoc.or.ke (hkariuki at isoc.or.ke) Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2019 16:39:54 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship In-Reply-To: <1478031339.474342.1562059823971.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> References: <1478031339.474342.1562059823971.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> Message-ID: <0303fa21f58074ce24d6e5e91ab09986@isoc.or.ke> Wafa, Thank you for the below education package. As a new AFRINIC fellow, I am finding it helpful in understanding policy issues and will hopefully join in the conversation constructively. Regards, Hellen, Vice President, ISOC Kenyan Chapter. On 2019-07-02 12:30 PM, wafa DAHMANI wrote: > Hi > > It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus > foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in Kampala, > were given a confidential Education package on AFRINIC Number > Resources Policy proposals detailed in the following link: > > https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg > > The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation > views of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG participants > interventions on the proposals. > > The education package so proposed intends to condition these > participants views on the proposals and their contributions at the > PPM and after.... > > I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual willing to > participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to know who is > behind each source email address... only opinions expressed in the > context of the PDP matter. The substance of contribution really > matter. Diversity of views are encouraged. Lack of disagreement is > more important than of agreement. Also PDP is not a matter of > volume, repetition or persistence. > > RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear on these aspects of the rough > consensus process. > > Section 6 > > One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough > consensus. > > Section 7 > > Five people for and one hundred people against might still be rough > consensus > > My African fellows, > > Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process is > legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting was useful > to you and allow you to identify the issues, understand what is going > on and what Africa needs... I hope you?ve made your minds and now > able to speak on your personal capacity.. > > The real education package is as below: > > ===== > > Proposal to establish AFRINIC > > http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997 > > IANA report on AFRINIC (Accreditation) > > https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf > > AFRINIC constitution > > https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws > > Registration Service Agreement > > https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa > > AFRINIC policy manual > > https://afrinic.net/policy/manual > > AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM > > https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre > > AFRINIC PDP > > https://www.afrinic.net/policy > > Rough Consensus > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282 > > AFRINIC current policy proposals > > https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals > > RiRs PDPs > > https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/ > > RIR comparative policy overview > > https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/ > > ============== > > Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way. > > Come build African Internet by Africans. > > As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation, > afrinic member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of IPv4 > is long established and discussed many times on this list. I hope the > fellows would find these discussions in the archives. > > I call the attention of the board on the repetitive attempts of this > resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid intentions... the > provisions of the bylaws and RSA must carefully be applied to recall > members to acceptable code of conduct. > > The African Internet community as well as the global Internet > community must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy > development process and operations. > > -Wafa > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss From jordi.palet at consulintel.es Fri Jul 5 21:04:24 2019 From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ) Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2019 23:04:24 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: <860068EB-47FA-4781-ABF3-600424904868@nftconsult.com> References: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com> <0911A471-DF02-49FF-96FE-2A9AC32D5BC1@consulintel.es> <19FD3B48-D5EA-4504-BDC0-748D322668E9@consulintel.es> <860068EB-47FA-4781-ABF3-600424904868@nftconsult.com> Message-ID: <87E37923-5169-44B8-8CFE-69665CC1CADB@consulintel.es> Hi Badru, Well with the response from Ahmed, it is clear that: He didn?t provided his email. He didn?t authorized this kind of communication. Only the sender can tell from were the emails have been obtained, but in any case, it is an illegal action in many countries (personal data collection/proccesing without the owner authorization, ?and sending spam without previous and explicit consent). I?ve got also a handful of emails, in private, from other folks that have been in the same situation as Ahmed. I asked them to go to the list, because I need to respect their privacy if they don?t want to say. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 5/7/19 6:13, "Badru Ntege" escribi?: Jordi Curious to know the end in mind with your question?? Please elucidate BN From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss Reply-To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ Date: Thursday, July 4, 2019 at 12:11 PM To: Ahmed Fadl , "Community-Discuss at afrinic.net" Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Hi Ahmen, I mean before getting the email advertisings the candidates, have you personally provided your email to Wafa? Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 4/7/19 10:06, "Ahmed Fadl" escribi?: Hi Jordi Already my mail provided for all community members Thank you From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ [mailto:jordi.palet at consulintel.es] Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 10:00 AM To: Ahmed Fadl ; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Hi Ahmed, Can you confirm if you have provided your email to Wafa and if that?s the case, if it was for discussing about candidates? Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 4/7/19 9:32, "Ahmed Fadl" escribi?: Thank you Sami for your introduction Let me also introduce myself My name is Ahmed Fadl, I?m working in healthcare nonprofit organization called children cancer hospital Egypt (57357), it is curing our patients with free of charge, my role is healthcare applications director. Our hospital is one of the biggest hospital in the world in this specializations. Also I?m responsible for the IP pools of our organization so I joined Afrinic community. My point from my mail is we have to know the plan and strategy for every person before we vote for them. I noticed that all the list by Wafaa from the same region why? I don?t know The characteristics of the board members should include diversification because we need all Africa regions to take all benefits and increase all regions knowledge and skills. This is what I mean by my mail. Finally welcome everyone has good plan for developing my country and all African countries. Also all respect for community members. Thank you From: Sami Salih [mailto:sami.salih at outlook.com] Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 6:14 AM To: Noah ; Ahmed Fadl Cc: Community-Discuss at afrinic.net; wafa Dahmani Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Salam I hope you reply Ahmed, since we have very bad experience with unknown fellows who come once to raise suspicious issue then disappear ! Looking for your positive continuous engagement. BR Dr. Sami H.O. Salih Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST Head of R&D, NTC, SUDAN President of SDv6TF T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 From: Noah Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 1:41 AM To: Ahmed Fadl Cc: Community-Discuss at afrinic.net; wafa Dahmani Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Dear Ahmed First and foremost, welcome on-board this community mailing list since I am seeing you post for the first time ever and I hope you will continue to engage in various discussions as a member of the community now. So, I have been catching up with email and I would like to also contribute to the discussion by stating a few things in reference to people being biased in general. Let me introduce myself first. I personally work for AS37100 a member of AfriNIC, I was popularly elected by the community as a volunteer to the AfriNIC ASO - AC and my term ends next year in 2020, I am a secretary general of an ISP association in my country of residence, and I am generally involved within the AFRICAN internet community as a volunteer with various non-profit organizations because voluntary work is fulfilling. However, whatever I say here often is from a personal point of view unless I state otherwise. I am telling you all this because, with all my years of engagement in this community, I have always spoken in my own personal capacity that is why I use my own personal email address. Nothing I say is ever a representation of any of the organization I am affiliated with, though so often, my affiliations have been used by some members of this community to attack my personal character, sometime as far as going after my employment just because of my personal views on various matters pertaining the African Internet Community. What I am trying to say is that, Wafa as a community member, just like me, so often speaks on her own personal capacity and I believe she has since clarified this to you and the community. Therefore, I doubt its "bias"as you put it ...... and my view of that email from her to you is basically an elections campaign for a candidate and candidates of her choice and in the end, her efforts seems to have paid off as some of the candidate she was supporting for the Northern Africa seat Dr.Habib ended up getting the highest votes ever of all candidates in the entire board elections. I was on the ground in Kampala and Habib did well also in terms of campaigning, so did other candidates and I can understand why he was Wafa's choice and and her strategy for the Northern Africa candidate for board election did indeed work. That is what good mobilization in campaigns does. In fact just in the same elections, there was a very well coordinated campaign that involved among other things, mudslinging of a specific candidate by some members of the various constituencies within the community and this also perfectly OK. Folks can go as far as using print media and sometime private lobbying through mailing lists and chat rooms. Its the nature of politicking and campaigns are tough and sometimes they get ugly, after all, not all candidates are supposed to be liked by the entire electorate yet politicking still goes on. This is basically pure politics 101 and its perfectly acceptable and normal and as they say, politics is part of daily life and so many of us in this community have been party to this and its nothing new. I submit to you that, being a member of, say, the AfriNIC appeals committee, or ASO-AC or GC ...you name it, does not stop someone from having their own subjective views nor does it stop them from being involved in community politics at a personal level. Remember above and beyond, we are all part of the Internet community before our various affiliations and after being party to these affiliations, we continue to be members of the internet community and remain in this community. What really matters is respect for each other and how we treat each other even when we disagree because in the end, its through this politics that we progress as we continue to individually contribute, improve and resolve some of our challenges. Cheers and I look forward to more engagement with you Mr.Ahmed. Noah On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 2:17 PM Ahmed Fadl wrote: Hi Wafa, Thanks for your email. I, among other members of AFRINIC in Egypt, received the following email from you many times. I wondered at that time why should I vote for these candidates specially for those in Eastern and Southern regions while each one was the sole candidate in his region. I quote this from your email "Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy ...." what is your strategy and who are you ? If you are talking about biasing the community, So, do you consider your email as a "member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC." fall under what ? I sent this mail many time but I don?t know why I can?t find this mail on community Thanks, Ahmed Fadl From: wafa Dahmani [mailto:wafatn7604 at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 1:05 PM To: wafa Dahmani Subject: AFRINIC Borad Elections Dear, My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC. I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates: Board of Directors: North Africa (seat 1) ? Habin Youssef West Africa (seat 2) ? Ly Ousmane South Africa (seat 5) ? Mpisane Vika William East Africa (seat 6) ? Nkusi Robert Ford Non-regional (seat 7) ? Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye Election Number Resource Organization Number Council ? Mustapha Ben Jemaa Election Policy Development Working Group ? Komi Elitcha ? Sami Hassan Election Governance Committee ? Daniel Nanghaka Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy and in order to preserve AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right candidates for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all our efforts and vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for an adequate board the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very simple for all categories except the policy development Working group where we want you to mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates We strongly solicit your support Thank you Wafa Dahmani member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jordi.palet at consulintel.es Fri Jul 5 21:10:10 2019 From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ) Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2019 23:10:10 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: References: <59F8813D-32D2-4A91-997D-867579439B76@consulintel.es> <5ACD5EA8-9FCE-4EBC-896A-5488FB1D52DB@consulintel.es> <93D7F2FF-40C7-45CB-AEDC-EA833D16F6C9@consulintel.es> Message-ID: <915AB339-DCEE-4DD3-8C82-8BF654A5B536@consulintel.es> Hi Noah, I just responded to a previous email on this. The law is not about ?if you don?t like an email send it to the junk box?. The law is about protecting people privacy and emails are (in most of the countries in the world), personal data. Nobody can use emails for a different purpose as the one they have been provided. Spam is not about ?repetitive? emails. Spam is ?any? single email that is not authorized, because you didn?t provided the email for that. Saying ?send it to the junk box? is like saying a victim of rape (or whatever other crime), is your fault, you were on the wrong streeet on the wrong time, don?t go there. I understand that in some countries this is not the law, but we should respect, when working in the Afrinic enviroment, the laws from Mauritious, which is one of the countries that has already agreed on those data protection regulations (GDPR). Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 5/7/19 10:51, "Noah" escribi?: On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 1:42 AM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote: Hi Noah, I?m sure we all have contacts from lots of people from the community, but we use those contacts for the reason they have been provided, is not lawful to use those for anything else. I have sent some of my contacts an emails that were not related to the original reasons the email was provided for. I have received emails from my contacts and people who are not my contact. I even receive calls from people I don't know and who are not my in my mobile phone contact. If I found the email reasonable, I act on it otherwise I delete it, simple as that. If you don't like the email, send it to the SPAM/JUNK email, simple as that. If you don't like the phone call, drop it. People share other peoples contacts email/phones and people ask other people about other peoples contacts. In my country, I even receive presidential campaign text messages and sometime from even member of parliament requesting for my vote in the national elections. Candidates and their supports always go so far in outreach activities in order to consolidate support from different constituencies for their preferred candidate and its the nature of political campaigns world over. If the same email or call is made frequently, then that is a different story. Noah ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jordi.palet at consulintel.es Fri Jul 5 21:13:29 2019 From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ) Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2019 23:13:29 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: <770CD949-AAEC-4B28-9A75-A2D047FA3AED@afrinic.net> References: <59F8813D-32D2-4A91-997D-867579439B76@consulintel.es> <5ACD5EA8-9FCE-4EBC-896A-5488FB1D52DB@consulintel.es> <770CD949-AAEC-4B28-9A75-A2D047FA3AED@afrinic.net> Message-ID: Hi Alan, If the board can't investigate that, we may have a problem, because Afrinic has to comply with GDPR. I don't know if those emails come from whois or something else, but some logs may tell. I my opinion it will be nicer to get a response from Wafa, and I'm sure the community will be happy to forgive her. My intent is not to punish anyone, just to make sure that we find solutions to possible problems and mistakes and avoid repeating them. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet ?El 5/7/19 10:16, "Alan Barrett" escribi?: > On 3 Jul 2019, at 15:50, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote: > > I?m angrier about this as much as I think on it again. > > Can the board and the staff investigate this? > > Can all the people that got those emails confirm if they have provided voluntarily their emails or if they have participated in Afrinic lists, or if those emails are part of their Afrinic contacts, in order to understand if this personal data (emails are personal data), have been collected from Afrinic internal databases. There is no reasonable way for AFRINIC staff to investigate whether the recipients had agreed to receive the messages sent by Wafa Dahmani. There is also no reasonable way for staff to investigate whether email addresses were collected from the public WHOIS database. There is no non-public AFRINIC database that could have been used. Regards, Alan Barrett _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. From jordi.palet at consulintel.es Fri Jul 5 21:16:13 2019 From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ) Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2019 23:16:13 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against W In-Reply-To: <2010046842.2086490.1562330630785@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1596679867.567581.1562168815318.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> <92B8D2EE-27F4-4320-9F5C-C53131E43C7E@liquidtelecom.com> <71CA8E04-00C6-4F6A-B6D6-A9217C0695E5@nftconsult.com> <595C0073-A790-40D3-96BA-D4AC380DC38C@nftconsult.com> <2010046842.2086490.1562330630785@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <341A8F4C-F4BC-4DCB-AB9E-5A24B20E1C4E@consulintel.es> Hi Mirriam, I don?t agree. The only way for organizations and communities to go forward is to find solutions to problems. If we don?t do that now, we will forget about this for 1 year, and then the mistake will be repeated by someone else. Is that what we want or we prefer to find our way into our self-regulation to avoid repeating over and over mistakes? Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 5/7/19 14:46, "Mirriam via Community-Discuss" escribi?: Hi guys So I have been following these discussions and what i have noted is, some community members accusing others for something they also do. Wafa clarified earlier that she was lobbying in her personal capacity for her preferred candidates from Northern Africa and others. And Mr.Dewole was also lobbying for his preferred board candidates Seun and Adewale within Nigeria. And Andrew Alston was lobbying for his preferred board candidates Sunday, Haitham and Silber in the past elections. Seems to me that different members from the community are also engaged in lobbying from what I have read with each individual stating their own reasons and plans why they prefer those candidates. Elections are over. We should concentrate on other important issues and maybe every lobbyist out there can revisit their lobbying activities when election season opens again. I don't see anything constructive from this discussion other than the fact that it has diverted attention from the email Wafa sent in an attempt to help new members of the community to get knowledge about the PDP . As for Larus Foundation Fellowship issue which Wafa raised earlier before this confusion of lobbying, I think Afrinic needs to intervene since they run fellowship programs and show leadership so that the PDP is not abused further by other third parties. Third parties can directly work with Afrinic to remove doubt from the community. Mirriam. Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Fri, Jul 5, 2019 at 1:22 PM, Andrew Alston wrote: _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net Fri Jul 5 21:57:37 2019 From: Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net (Omo Oaiya) Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2019 22:57:37 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: References: <59F8813D-32D2-4A91-997D-867579439B76@consulintel.es> <5ACD5EA8-9FCE-4EBC-896A-5488FB1D52DB@consulintel.es> <770CD949-AAEC-4B28-9A75-A2D047FA3AED@afrinic.net> Message-ID: <6047FDC9-1C45-4025-B62B-24C315664C97@wacren.net> Jordi, > On 5 Jul 2019, at 22:13, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote: > > Hi Alan, > > If the board can't investigate that, we may have a problem, because Afrinic has to comply with GDPR. > > I don't know if those emails come from whois or something else, but some logs may tell. ?may have a problem ?..I don?t know if those .. Seems to me that you are fishing and stretching this a bit. What responsibilities would AFRINIC not have complied with in this case? > > I my opinion it will be nicer to get a response from Wafa, and I'm sure the community will be happy to forgive her. If anything, this business is between Wafa and the folks with whom she communicated. I don?t see how ?forgiveness? by the community comes in. > My intent is not to punish anyone, Even if it were, how would you punish anyone?? > just to make sure that we find solutions to possible problems and mistakes and avoid repeating them. It is starting to look like you have more in mind than that. Best wishes Omo > > Regards, > Jordi > @jordipalet > > > > ?El 5/7/19 10:16, "Alan Barrett" escribi?: > > > >> On 3 Jul 2019, at 15:50, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote: >> >> I?m angrier about this as much as I think on it again. >> >> Can the board and the staff investigate this? >> >> Can all the people that got those emails confirm if they have provided voluntarily their emails or if they have participated in Afrinic lists, or if those emails are part of their Afrinic contacts, in order to understand if this personal data (emails are personal data), have been collected from Afrinic internal databases. > > There is no reasonable way for AFRINIC staff to investigate whether the recipients had agreed to receive the messages sent by Wafa Dahmani. There is also no reasonable way for staff to investigate whether email addresses were collected from the public WHOIS database. There is no non-public AFRINIC database that could have been used. > > Regards, > Alan Barrett > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > > > ********************************************** > IPv4 is over > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > http://www.theipv6company.com > The IPv6 Company > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss Omo OAIYA Chief Strategy Officer/Directeur de la Strat?gie | WACREN m: +234 808 888 1571 , +233 205 228 693 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jordi.palet at consulintel.es Fri Jul 5 22:01:57 2019 From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ) Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2019 00:01:57 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: <6047FDC9-1C45-4025-B62B-24C315664C97@wacren.net> References: <59F8813D-32D2-4A91-997D-867579439B76@consulintel.es> <5ACD5EA8-9FCE-4EBC-896A-5488FB1D52DB@consulintel.es> <770CD949-AAEC-4B28-9A75-A2D047FA3AED@afrinic.net> <6047FDC9-1C45-4025-B62B-24C315664C97@wacren.net> Message-ID: <6DE8C602-9A82-4A7B-890D-638F5CF717C4@consulintel.es> Hi Ommo, Responding very shortly: If the emails come from an internal Afrinic database (for example, membership), then the data protection regulations are not efficient. The nicer/faster solution is that Wafa tell us how the emails were collected, because if there is some unexpected ?open? database, we need to correct it. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 5/7/19 23:57, "Omo Oaiya" escribi?: Jordi, On 5 Jul 2019, at 22:13, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote: Hi Alan, If the board can't investigate that, we may have a problem, because Afrinic has to comply with GDPR. I don't know if those emails come from whois or something else, but some logs may tell. ?may have a problem ?..I don?t know if those .. Seems to me that you are fishing and stretching this a bit. What responsibilities would AFRINIC not have complied with in this case? I my opinion it will be nicer to get a response from Wafa, and I'm sure the community will be happy to forgive her. If anything, this business is between Wafa and the folks with whom she communicated. I don?t see how ?forgiveness? by the community comes in. My intent is not to punish anyone, Even if it were, how would you punish anyone?? just to make sure that we find solutions to possible problems and mistakes and avoid repeating them. It is starting to look like you have more in mind than that. Best wishes Omo Regards, Jordi @jordipalet ?El 5/7/19 10:16, "Alan Barrett" escribi?: On 3 Jul 2019, at 15:50, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote: I?m angrier about this as much as I think on it again. Can the board and the staff investigate this? Can all the people that got those emails confirm if they have provided voluntarily their emails or if they have participated in Afrinic lists, or if those emails are part of their Afrinic contacts, in order to understand if this personal data (emails are personal data), have been collected from Afrinic internal databases. There is no reasonable way for AFRINIC staff to investigate whether the recipients had agreed to receive the messages sent by Wafa Dahmani. There is also no reasonable way for staff to investigate whether email addresses were collected from the public WHOIS database. There is no non-public AFRINIC database that could have been used. Regards, Alan Barrett _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss Omo OAIYA Chief Strategy Officer/Directeur de la Strat?gie | WACREN m: +234 808 888 1571 , +233 205 228 693 ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net Fri Jul 5 22:06:58 2019 From: Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net (Omo Oaiya) Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2019 23:06:58 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: <6DE8C602-9A82-4A7B-890D-638F5CF717C4@consulintel.es> References: <59F8813D-32D2-4A91-997D-867579439B76@consulintel.es> <5ACD5EA8-9FCE-4EBC-896A-5488FB1D52DB@consulintel.es> <770CD949-AAEC-4B28-9A75-A2D047FA3AED@afrinic.net> <6047FDC9-1C45-4025-B62B-24C315664C97@wacren.net> <6DE8C602-9A82-4A7B-890D-638F5CF717C4@consulintel.es> Message-ID: > On 5 Jul 2019, at 23:01, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote: > > Hi Ommo, > > Responding very shortly: > > If the emails come from an internal Afrinic database (for example, membership), then the data protection regulations are not efficient. Perhaps you missed this? > > On 5 Jul 2019, at 09:13, Alan Barrett wrote: > > There is no non-public AFRINIC database that could have been used. > > The nicer/faster solution is that Wafa tell us how the emails were collected, because if there is some unexpected ?open? database, we need to correct it. > OK. Ask her nicely then. She might ?forgive? you and tell you. > Regards, > Jordi > > @jordipalet > > > > > > El 5/7/19 23:57, "Omo Oaiya" > escribi?: > > Jordi, > > > >> On 5 Jul 2019, at 22:13, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss > wrote: >> >> Hi Alan, >> >> If the board can't investigate that, we may have a problem, because Afrinic has to comply with GDPR. >> >> I don't know if those emails come from whois or something else, but some logs may tell. > > > ?may have a problem > > ?..I don?t know if those .. > > Seems to me that you are fishing and stretching this a bit. What responsibilities would AFRINIC not have complied with in this case? > >> >> I my opinion it will be nicer to get a response from Wafa, and I'm sure the community will be happy to forgive her. > > > If anything, this business is between Wafa and the folks with whom she communicated. I don?t see how ?forgiveness? by the community comes in. > >> My intent is not to punish anyone, > > Even if it were, how would you punish anyone?? > > >> just to make sure that we find solutions to possible problems and mistakes and avoid repeating them. > > It is starting to look like you have more in mind than that. > > Best wishes > Omo > >> >> Regards, >> Jordi >> @jordipalet >> >> >> >> ?El 5/7/19 10:16, "Alan Barrett" > escribi?: >> >> >> >> >>> On 3 Jul 2019, at 15:50, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss > wrote: >>> >>> I?m angrier about this as much as I think on it again. >>> >>> Can the board and the staff investigate this? >>> >>> Can all the people that got those emails confirm if they have provided voluntarily their emails or if they have participated in Afrinic lists, or if those emails are part of their Afrinic contacts, in order to understand if this personal data (emails are personal data), have been collected from Afrinic internal databases. >> >> There is no reasonable way for AFRINIC staff to investigate whether the recipients had agreed to receive the messages sent by Wafa Dahmani. There is also no reasonable way for staff to investigate whether email addresses were collected from the public WHOIS database. There is no non-public AFRINIC database that could have been used. >> >> Regards, >> Alan Barrett >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> >> >> >> >> ********************************************** >> IPv4 is over >> Are you ready for the new Internet ? >> http://www.theipv6company.com >> The IPv6 Company >> >> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > Omo OAIYA > Chief Strategy Officer/Directeur de la Strat?gie | WACREN > m: +234 808 888 1571 , +233 205 228 693 > > > > > > > > > > ********************************************** > IPv4 is over > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > http://www.theipv6company.com > The IPv6 Company > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss Omo OAIYA Chief Strategy Officer/Directeur de la Strat?gie | WACREN m: +234 808 888 1571 , +233 205 228 693 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Fri Jul 5 22:15:06 2019 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2019 01:15:06 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: References: <59F8813D-32D2-4A91-997D-867579439B76@consulintel.es> <5ACD5EA8-9FCE-4EBC-896A-5488FB1D52DB@consulintel.es> <770CD949-AAEC-4B28-9A75-A2D047FA3AED@afrinic.net> <6047FDC9-1C45-4025-B62B-24C315664C97@wacren.net> <6DE8C602-9A82-4A7B-890D-638F5CF717C4@consulintel.es> Message-ID: On Sat, Jul 6, 2019 at 1:09 AM Omo Oaiya wrote: > > > On 5 Jul 2019, at 23:01, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss < > community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > > Hi Ommo, > > Responding very shortly: > > If the emails come from an internal Afrinic database (for example, > membership), then the data protection regulations are not efficient. > > > Perhaps you missed this? > > > > On 5 Jul 2019, at 09:13, Alan Barrett wrote: > > There is no non-public AFRINIC database that could have been used. > > > > > The nicer/faster solution is that Wafa tell us how the emails were > collected, because if there is some unexpected ?open? database, we need to > correct it. > > > > OK. Ask her nicely then. She might ?forgive? you and tell you. > I doubt she will because Jordi (supposed champion of GDPR) seems to be attempting to harrass Wafa. Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mirriamlauren at yahoo.com Fri Jul 5 23:40:14 2019 From: mirriamlauren at yahoo.com (Mirriam) Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2019 23:40:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against W In-Reply-To: <341A8F4C-F4BC-4DCB-AB9E-5A24B20E1C4E@consulintel.es> References: <1596679867.567581.1562168815318.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> <92B8D2EE-27F4-4320-9F5C-C53131E43C7E@liquidtelecom.com> <71CA8E04-00C6-4F6A-B6D6-A9217C0695E5@nftconsult.com> <595C0073-A790-40D3-96BA-D4AC380DC38C@nftconsult.com> <2010046842.2086490.1562330630785@mail.yahoo.com> <341A8F4C-F4BC-4DCB-AB9E-5A24B20E1C4E@consulintel.es> Message-ID: <1432884215.2265408.1562370014688@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Jordi I have already suggested a solution of AfriNIC taking a leadership role and providing a solution to the challenge presented by Larus Foundation a third party fellowship provider whose activities should be discouraged as they seem to undermine the Policy Development Process. Since Larus Foundation fellowship program is not popular within the community due to the issues raised by members of the community, my suggestion and I will repeat again, is that AFRINIC? takes a central role with matters related to fellowship. Larus Foundation is better of working with AfriNIC, if indeed they mean well for this community.? Only AfriNIC should be responsible for fellowship programs that are related to the AfriNIC PDP to avoid bias, influence and the undermining of the PDP.?? Only AfriNIC can be transparent and? trusted to offer support and education to fellows about the PDP as well as being the main contact for any form of fellowship. This is how we can fix this issue.??Mirriam. Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Sat, Jul 6, 2019 at 12:16 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote: _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: Untitled URL: From mirriamlauren at yahoo.com Fri Jul 5 23:40:14 2019 From: mirriamlauren at yahoo.com (Mirriam) Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2019 23:40:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against W In-Reply-To: <341A8F4C-F4BC-4DCB-AB9E-5A24B20E1C4E@consulintel.es> References: <1596679867.567581.1562168815318.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> <92B8D2EE-27F4-4320-9F5C-C53131E43C7E@liquidtelecom.com> <71CA8E04-00C6-4F6A-B6D6-A9217C0695E5@nftconsult.com> <595C0073-A790-40D3-96BA-D4AC380DC38C@nftconsult.com> <2010046842.2086490.1562330630785@mail.yahoo.com> <341A8F4C-F4BC-4DCB-AB9E-5A24B20E1C4E@consulintel.es> Message-ID: <1432884215.2265408.1562370014688@mail.yahoo.com> Hi Jordi I have already suggested a solution of AfriNIC taking a leadership role and providing a solution to the challenge presented by Larus Foundation a third party fellowship provider whose activities should be discouraged as they seem to undermine the Policy Development Process. Since Larus Foundation fellowship program is not popular within the community due to the issues raised by members of the community, my suggestion and I will repeat again, is that AFRINIC? takes a central role with matters related to fellowship. Larus Foundation is better of working with AfriNIC, if indeed they mean well for this community.? Only AfriNIC should be responsible for fellowship programs that are related to the AfriNIC PDP to avoid bias, influence and the undermining of the PDP.?? Only AfriNIC can be transparent and? trusted to offer support and education to fellows about the PDP as well as being the main contact for any form of fellowship. This is how we can fix this issue.??Mirriam. Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Sat, Jul 6, 2019 at 12:16 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote: _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: Untitled URL: From yakmutd at googlemail.com Sat Jul 6 05:42:19 2019 From: yakmutd at googlemail.com (Daniel Yakmut) Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2019 06:42:19 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Letter of Appointment for Hago Dafalla In-Reply-To: References: <342820698.1905112.1562255955563.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <342820698.1905112.1562255955563@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I went online to the ICT foundation it seems Hago was just appointed as propagated everywhere. Cheers On Jul 5, 2019 10:03 AM, "Seun Ojedeji" wrote: I have seen this same mail sent to many list, am not sure why this is relevant on any of the AFRINIC lists nor the other lists where I have seen it. In view of this I wonder if this is actually some form of spamming, perhaps Hago didn't send this Regards Sent from my mobile Kindly excuse brevity and typos On Thu, 4 Jul 2019, 17:02 Hago Dafalla via RPD, wrote: > Dear Friends > > I have been Appointment as a Regional Director for East Africa, for The > African ICT Foundation. Please find the attached Letter of Appointment for > your consideration. Attached is a press release for engagement. > > > Thanks > > Hago Dafalla > _______________________________________________ > RPD mailing list > RPD at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd > _______________________________________________ RPD mailing list RPD at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mje at posix.co.za Sat Jul 6 08:39:37 2019 From: mje at posix.co.za (Mark Elkins) Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2019 10:39:37 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against W In-Reply-To: <1432884215.2265408.1562370014688@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1596679867.567581.1562168815318.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> <92B8D2EE-27F4-4320-9F5C-C53131E43C7E@liquidtelecom.com> <71CA8E04-00C6-4F6A-B6D6-A9217C0695E5@nftconsult.com> <595C0073-A790-40D3-96BA-D4AC380DC38C@nftconsult.com> <2010046842.2086490.1562330630785@mail.yahoo.com> <341A8F4C-F4BC-4DCB-AB9E-5A24B20E1C4E@consulintel.es> <1432884215.2265408.1562370014688@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001ba2e6-0da4-3c55-f901-ab98bdb19f98@posix.co.za> On 2019/07/06 01:40, Mirriam via Community-Discuss wrote: > Hi Jordi > > I have already suggested a solution of AfriNIC taking a leadership > role and providing a solution to the challenge presented by Larus > Foundation a third party fellowship provider whose activities should > be discouraged as they seem to undermine the Policy Development Process. > > Since Larus Foundation fellowship program is not popular within the > community due to the issues raised by members of the community, my > suggestion and I will repeat again, is that AFRINIC? takes a central > role with matters related to fellowship. Larus Foundation is better of > working with AfriNIC, if indeed they mean well for this community. I'm sorry - but what gives you the right to speak on my behalf? I'm happy with the Larus Foundation fellowship program. Sure, they could do better. So could you, it seems, as in I have never given my consent for you to speak on my behalf - please refrain from doing so. > > Only AfriNIC should be responsible for fellowship programs that are > related to the AfriNIC PDP to avoid bias, influence and the > undermining of the PDP. > > Only AfriNIC can be transparent and? trusted to offer support and > education to fellows about the PDP as well as being the main contact > for any form of fellowship. > > This is how we can fix this issue. > Mirriam. > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > > > On Sat, Jul 6, 2019 at 12:16 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via > Community-Discuss > wrote: > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > -- Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa mje at posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496 For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mirriamlauren at yahoo.com Sat Jul 6 08:57:58 2019 From: mirriamlauren at yahoo.com (Mirriam) Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2019 08:57:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against W In-Reply-To: <001ba2e6-0da4-3c55-f901-ab98bdb19f98@posix.co.za> References: <1596679867.567581.1562168815318.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> <92B8D2EE-27F4-4320-9F5C-C53131E43C7E@liquidtelecom.com> <71CA8E04-00C6-4F6A-B6D6-A9217C0695E5@nftconsult.com> <595C0073-A790-40D3-96BA-D4AC380DC38C@nftconsult.com> <2010046842.2086490.1562330630785@mail.yahoo.com> <341A8F4C-F4BC-4DCB-AB9E-5A24B20E1C4E@consulintel.es> <1432884215.2265408.1562370014688@mail.yahoo.com> <001ba2e6-0da4-3c55-f901-ab98bdb19f98@posix.co.za> Message-ID: <901350384.2303587.1562403478438@mail.yahoo.com> Mr.Andrew and Elkins Focus. Its not about me :-) I take that you both don't seem to resonate with my suggestions on the issue of fellowship.? That is perfectly OK. I hope Afrinic takes my suggestions into consideration. Mirriam. Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android On Sat, Jul 6, 2019 at 11:40 AM, Mark Elkins wrote: _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: Untitled URL: From ousmane at musatesa.net Sat Jul 6 09:44:54 2019 From: ousmane at musatesa.net (Ousmane M. TESSA) Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2019 11:44:54 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against W In-Reply-To: <1432884215.2265408.1562370014688@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1596679867.567581.1562168815318.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> <92B8D2EE-27F4-4320-9F5C-C53131E43C7E@liquidtelecom.com> <71CA8E04-00C6-4F6A-B6D6-A9217C0695E5@nftconsult.com> <595C0073-A790-40D3-96BA-D4AC380DC38C@nftconsult.com> <2010046842.2086490.1562330630785@mail.yahoo.com> <341A8F4C-F4BC-4DCB-AB9E-5A24B20E1C4E@consulintel.es> <1432884215.2265408.1562370014688@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20190706114454.Horde.0a34e4bttuoaogcI6cGZS5s@musatesa.net> Great Mirriam I guess that this proposal is welcome by our community members for the sake to proceed without being melting in useless quarrels stiring here and there! We're waiting for a quick whistle to hal this waste of time and let the community to focus on a better and beneficial usages of our number ressources to promote Internet services i n Africa! Dr Ousmane TESSA Mirriam via Community-Discuss a ?crit?: > Hi Jordi > ? > I have already suggested a solution of AfriNIC taking a leadership > role and providing a solution to the challenge presented by Larus > Foundation a third party fellowship provider whose activities should > be discouraged as they seem to undermine the Policy Development > Process. > ? > Since Larus Foundation fellowship program is not popular within > the community due to the issues raised by members of the community, > my suggestion and I will repeat again, is that AFRINIC? takes a > central role with matters related to fellowship. Larus Foundation is > better of working with AfriNIC, if indeed they mean well for this > community.? > ? > Only AfriNIC should be responsible for fellowship programs that > are related to the AfriNIC PDP to avoid bias, influence and the > undermining of the PDP.?? > ? > Only AfriNIC can be transparent and? trusted to offer support and > education to fellows about the PDP as well as being the main contact > for any form of fellowship. > ? > This is how we can fix this issue. > ?? > Mirriam. > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android[1] > >> On Sat, Jul 6, 2019 at 12:16 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss >> wrote: >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss Liens: ------ [1] https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature ************************************************** Dr Ousmane MOUSSA TESSA D?partement de math?matiques et d'informatique Universit? A. Moumouni, Niamey, NIGER **************************************************** Adresse postale: B.P. 10.111 Niamey, NIGER T?l?phone (domicile): +227 20 31 52 28 ? ? ? ? ? (mobile) :? +227 93 77 74 93 /? 91 49 16? 39 / 96 27 99 92 **************************************************** E-mail: ousmane(at)musatesa.net ou musatesa(at)yahoo.com Skype : musatesa ************************************************ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ousmane at musatesa.net Sat Jul 6 09:54:56 2019 From: ousmane at musatesa.net (Ousmane M. TESSA) Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2019 11:54:56 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against W In-Reply-To: <1432884215.2265408.1562370014688@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1596679867.567581.1562168815318.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> <92B8D2EE-27F4-4320-9F5C-C53131E43C7E@liquidtelecom.com> <71CA8E04-00C6-4F6A-B6D6-A9217C0695E5@nftconsult.com> <595C0073-A790-40D3-96BA-D4AC380DC38C@nftconsult.com> <2010046842.2086490.1562330630785@mail.yahoo.com> <341A8F4C-F4BC-4DCB-AB9E-5A24B20E1C4E@consulintel.es> <1432884215.2265408.1562370014688@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20190706115456.Horde.ziFRbsk2MlXNPcH655Cp2fC@musatesa.net> Dear all, Again and again, let's be more constructive bearing in mind our "common denominator" to use our time reading and discussing LONG messages! I hope that such clear proposas form Jordi & Mirriam, will consolidate transparency? and trust in our community,? and will gain support of all of us, beyond their specific acceptions of AfriNIC. For the sake? of strengthen our community, this very easy to implement? suggestion can put an end to all these disputes around an entity, which can and have to respect such rules, when agreed? by all of us. Let's go out quickly from vain quarrels, even fueled by invisible hands usually in Africa. Just stand up to stop anyone, within ou outside our community,? who wants to proceed just by " divide, then conquer". Thank for all our community members ( inside and outsider Africa) for their genuine contribution to permit AfriNIC to fullfill its mandate and gain in momentum towards its objectives. The last not the least, those who to consider? AfriNIC as a "game meat" will face fierce? hitback from our community. Dr Ousmane TESSA Mirriam via Community-Discuss a ?crit?: > Hi Jordi > ? > I have already suggested a solution of AfriNIC taking a leadership > role and providing a solution to the challenge presented by Larus > Foundation a third party fellowship provider whose activities should > be discouraged as they seem to undermine the Policy Development > Process. > ? > Since Larus Foundation fellowship program is not popular within > the community due to the issues raised by members of the community, > my suggestion and I will repeat again, is that AFRINIC? takes a > central role with matters related to fellowship. Larus Foundation is > better of working with AfriNIC, if indeed they mean well for this > community.? > ? > Only AfriNIC should be responsible for fellowship programs that > are related to the AfriNIC PDP to avoid bias, influence and the > undermining of the PDP.?? > ? > Only AfriNIC can be transparent and? trusted to offer support and > education to fellows about the PDP as well as being the main contact > for any form of fellowship. > ? > This is how we can fix this issue. > ?? > Mirriam. > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android[1] > >> On Sat, Jul 6, 2019 at 12:16 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss >> wrote: >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss Liens: ------ [1] https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature ************************************************** Dr Ousmane MOUSSA TESSA D?partement de math?matiques et d'informatique Universit? A. Moumouni, Niamey, NIGER **************************************************** Adresse postale: B.P. 10.111 Niamey, NIGER T?l?phone (domicile): +227 20 31 52 28 ? ? ? ? ? (mobile) :? +227 93 77 74 93 /? 91 49 16? 39 / 96 27 99 92 **************************************************** E-mail: ousmane(at)musatesa.net ou musatesa(at)yahoo.com Skype : musatesa ************************************************ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From otieno.barrack at gmail.com Sat Jul 6 11:13:10 2019 From: otieno.barrack at gmail.com (Barrack Otieno) Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2019 14:13:10 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 505, Issue 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, Now that elections are over, i suggest we focus on advancing AFRINIC. Elections are simply elections and can be very divisive however once the process is over the onus is on us to join hand and work with the teams that have been elected. While the majority have their way we should also allow the minority to have their say. Like any other organization AFRINIC is a growing organization and will improve continously as the Community improves its Policy making process and engagement modalities. I am therefore appealing to us to advance as per the AFRINIC clarion call. Let us spend more time and energy discussing how to ensure every African is able to access the Internet. Statistics show that barely half the citizens of this great continent have access to the Internet. Worse still only 1% of our kinsmen are making use of the Internet for gainfull purposes (less than 2 Million Domain Names in a Continent of more than 1 Billion people. As such i call upon all of us to press the reset button and focus on the Mission of AFRINIC. Regards On Sat, 6 Jul 2019, 11:40 am , wrote: > Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to > community-discuss at afrinic.net > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > community-discuss-request at afrinic.net > > You can reach the person managing the list at > community-discuss-owner at afrinic.net > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against W (Mirriam) > 2. Re: [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against W (Omo Oaiya) > 3. Re: Larus foundation fellowship (hkariuki at isoc.or.ke) > 4. Re: AFRINIC Borad Elections (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ) > 5. Re: AFRINIC Borad Elections (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ) > 6. Re: AFRINIC Borad Elections (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ) > 7. Re: [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against W (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ) > 8. Re: AFRINIC Borad Elections (Omo Oaiya) > 9. Re: AFRINIC Borad Elections (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ) > 10. Re: AFRINIC Borad Elections (Omo Oaiya) > 11. Re: AFRINIC Borad Elections (Noah) > 12. Re: [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against W (Mirriam) > 13. Re: [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against W (Mirriam) > 14. Re: [rpd] Letter of Appointment for Hago Dafalla (Daniel Yakmut) > 15. Re: [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against W (Mark Elkins) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2019 12:43:50 +0000 (UTC) > From: Mirriam > To: "Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com" > , Badru Ntege > , wafa DAHMANI , Paschal > Ochang > Cc: community-discuss > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against W > Message-ID: <2010046842.2086490.1562330630785 at mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi guys > So I have been following these discussions and what i have noted is, some > community members accusing others for something they also do.?Wafa > clarified earlier that she was lobbying in her personal capacity for her > preferred candidates from Northern Africa and others. And Mr.Dewole was > also lobbying for his preferred board candidates Seun and Adewale within > Nigeria. And Andrew Alston was lobbying for his preferred board candidates > Sunday, Haitham and Silber in the past elections.? > Seems to me that different members from the community are also engaged in > lobbying from what I have read with each individual stating their own > reasons and plans why they prefer those candidates.?? > Elections are over. We should concentrate on other important issues and > maybe every lobbyist out there can revisit their lobbying activities when > election season opens again.? > I don't see anything constructive from this discussion other than the fact > that it has diverted attention from the email Wafa sent in an attempt to > help new members of the community to get knowledge about the PDP . > As for Larus Foundation Fellowship issue which Wafa raised earlier before > this confusion of lobbying,? I think Afrinic needs to intervene since they > run fellowship programs? and show leadership so that the PDP is not abused > further by other third parties. Third parties can directly work with > Afrinic to remove doubt from the community. > Mirriam. > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > > On Fri, Jul 5, 2019 at 1:22 PM, Andrew Alston< > Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com> wrote: > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20190705/8152c758/attachment-0001.html > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... > Name: Untitled > URL: < > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20190705/8152c758/attachment-0001.ksh > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2019 14:19:08 +0100 > From: Omo Oaiya > To: "mirriamlauren at yahoo.com" > Cc: community-discuss , Paschal Ochang > > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against W > Message-ID: > < > CAG1eoi2Q7OPfpP66WBgTOTcc2hGqkjpxKO_8jL8j2vqx1cXZpg at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > On Fri, 5 Jul 2019 at 13:45, Mirriam via Community-Discuss < > community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > > > Hi guys > > > > So I have been following these discussions and what i have noted is, some > > community members accusing others for something they also do. > > > > Wafa clarified earlier that she was lobbying in her personal capacity for > > her preferred candidates from Northern Africa and others. And Mr.Dewole > was > > also lobbying for his preferred board candidates Seun and Adewale within > > Nigeria. And Andrew Alston was lobbying for his preferred board > candidates > > Sunday, Haitham and Silber in the past elections. > > > > Seems to me that different members from the community are also engaged in > > lobbying from what I have read with each individual stating their own > > reasons and plans why they prefer those candidates. > > > > Elections are over. We should concentrate on other important issues and > > maybe every lobbyist out there can revisit their lobbying activities when > > election season opens again. > > > > I don't see anything constructive from this discussion other than the > fact > > that it has diverted attention from the email Wafa sent in an attempt to > > help new members of the community to get knowledge about the PDP . > > > > As for Larus Foundation Fellowship issue which Wafa raised earlier before > > this confusion of lobbying, I think Afrinic needs to intervene since > they > > run fellowship programs and show leadership so that the PDP is not > abused > > further by other third parties. Third parties can directly work with > > Afrinic to remove doubt from the community. > > > > Mirriam. > > > > > > > Nice summary. Hopefully, we can now move forward to productive discussions > and make corrections where we think they are needed. > > I like the idea of ALL fellowship support channelled through AFRINIC. This > can be coupled with the more elaborate newcomer arrangements that have been > proposed by some. > > Omo > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20190705/657c05aa/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2019 16:39:54 +0300 > From: hkariuki at isoc.or.ke > To: wafa DAHMANI > Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net, rpd at afrinic.net > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Larus foundation fellowship > Message-ID: <0303fa21f58074ce24d6e5e91ab09986 at isoc.or.ke> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > > Wafa, > Thank you for the below education package. > As a new AFRINIC fellow, I am finding it helpful in understanding > policy issues and will hopefully join in the conversation > constructively. > Regards, > Hellen, > Vice President, ISOC Kenyan Chapter. > > On 2019-07-02 12:30 PM, wafa DAHMANI wrote: > > Hi > > > > It fell under public domain, that those who benefited from Larus > > foundation fellowship to attend the last afrinic meeting in Kampala, > > were given a confidential Education package on AFRINIC Number > > Resources Policy proposals detailed in the following link: > > > > https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kf7K8JdL-zl5NYjlboltmoXeq2mAJvNg > > > > The document lists the proposals to be discussed, Larus Foundation > > views of Pros and Cons on each of them, selective PDWG participants > > interventions on the proposals. > > > > The education package so proposed intends to condition these > > participants views on the proposals and their contributions at the > > PPM and after.... > > > > I like to remind us that the PDP is open for any individual willing to > > participate. Views expressed are personal. No need to know who is > > behind each source email address... only opinions expressed in the > > context of the PDP matter. The substance of contribution really > > matter. Diversity of views are encouraged. Lack of disagreement is > > more important than of agreement. Also PDP is not a matter of > > volume, repetition or persistence. > > > > RFC 7282 section 6 and 7 are clear on these aspects of the rough > > consensus process. > > > > Section 6 > > > > One hundred people for and five people against might not be rough > > consensus. > > > > Section 7 > > > > Five people for and one hundred people against might still be rough > > consensus > > > > My African fellows, > > > > Your desire to participate to AFRINIC policy development Process is > > legitimate and must be encouraged. I hope the last meeting was useful > > to you and allow you to identify the issues, understand what is going > > on and what Africa needs... I hope you?ve made your minds and now > > able to speak on your personal capacity.. > > > > The real education package is as below: > > > > ===== > > > > Proposal to establish AFRINIC > > > > > http://web01.jnb.afrinic.net/en/library/policies/archive/ppm-minutes/862-kuala-lumpur-1997 > > > > IANA report on AFRINIC (Accreditation) > > > > https://www.iana.org/reports/2005/afrinic-report-05aug2005.pdf > > > > AFRINIC constitution > > > > https://www.afrinic.net/bylaws > > > > Registration Service Agreement > > > > https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements#rsa > > > > AFRINIC policy manual > > > > https://afrinic.net/policy/manual > > > > AFRINIC policies before the adoption of the CPM > > > > https://www.afrinic.net/cpm-pre > > > > AFRINIC PDP > > > > https://www.afrinic.net/policy > > > > Rough Consensus > > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7282 > > > > AFRINIC current policy proposals > > > > https://www.afrinic.net/policy/proposals > > > > RiRs PDPs > > > > https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/ > > > > RIR comparative policy overview > > > > https://www.nro.net/policy/regional/rir-comparative-policy-overview/ > > > > ============== > > > > Please read and process them, ask questions and find your way. > > > > Come build African Internet by Africans. > > > > As for Larus Foundation, your relationship to cloud innovation, > > afrinic member with suspicious activities, holding 6 millions of IPv4 > > is long established and discussed many times on this list. I hope the > > fellows would find these discussions in the archives. > > > > I call the attention of the board on the repetitive attempts of this > > resource member to hijack the PDP for its sordid intentions... the > > provisions of the bylaws and RSA must carefully be applied to recall > > members to acceptable code of conduct. > > > > The African Internet community as well as the global Internet > > community must pay close attention and protect the RIRs Policy > > development process and operations. > > > > -Wafa > > _______________________________________________ > > Community-Discuss mailing list > > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2019 23:04:24 +0200 > From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ > To: "Community-Discuss at afrinic.net" > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections > Message-ID: <87E37923-5169-44B8-8CFE-69665CC1CADB at consulintel.es> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi Badru, > > > > Well with the response from Ahmed, it is clear that: > He didn?t provided his email. > He didn?t authorized this kind of communication. > > > Only the sender can tell from were the emails have been obtained, but in > any case, it is an illegal action in many countries (personal data > collection/proccesing without the owner authorization, ?and sending spam > without previous and explicit consent). > > > > I?ve got also a handful of emails, in private, from other folks that have > been in the same situation as Ahmed. I asked them to go to the list, > because I need to respect their privacy if they don?t want to say. > > > > Regards, > > Jordi > > @jordipalet > > > > > > > > El 5/7/19 6:13, "Badru Ntege" escribi?: > > > > Jordi > > > > Curious to know the end in mind with your question?? Please elucidate > > > > BN > > > > > > From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss < > community-discuss at afrinic.net> > Reply-To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ > Date: Thursday, July 4, 2019 at 12:11 PM > To: Ahmed Fadl , "Community-Discuss at afrinic.net" < > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net> > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections > > > > Hi Ahmen, > > > > I mean before getting the email advertisings the candidates, have you > personally provided your email to Wafa? > > > > Regards, > > Jordi > > @jordipalet > > > > > > > > El 4/7/19 10:06, "Ahmed Fadl" escribi?: > > > > Hi Jordi > > Already my mail provided for all community members > > Thank you > > > > > > From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ [mailto:jordi.palet at consulintel.es] > Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 10:00 AM > To: Ahmed Fadl ; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections > > > > Hi Ahmed, > > > > Can you confirm if you have provided your email to Wafa and if that?s the > case, if it was for discussing about candidates? > > > > Regards, > > Jordi > > @jordipalet > > > > > > > > El 4/7/19 9:32, "Ahmed Fadl" escribi?: > > > > Thank you Sami for your introduction > > Let me also introduce myself > > My name is Ahmed Fadl, I?m working in healthcare nonprofit organization > called children cancer hospital Egypt (57357), it is curing our patients > with free of charge, my role is healthcare applications director. > > Our hospital is one of the biggest hospital in the world in this > specializations. > > Also I?m responsible for the IP pools of our organization so I joined > Afrinic community. > > My point from my mail is we have to know the plan and strategy for every > person before we vote for them. > > I noticed that all the list by Wafaa from the same region why? I don?t > know > > The characteristics of the board members should include diversification > because we need all Africa regions to take all benefits and increase all > regions knowledge and skills. > > This is what I mean by my mail. > > Finally welcome everyone has good plan for developing my country and all > African countries. > > Also all respect for community members. > > Thank you > > > > > > From: Sami Salih [mailto:sami.salih at outlook.com] > Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 6:14 AM > To: Noah ; Ahmed Fadl > Cc: Community-Discuss at afrinic.net; wafa Dahmani > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections > > > > Salam > > > > I hope you reply Ahmed, since we have very bad experience with unknown > fellows who come once to raise suspicious issue then disappear ! > > Looking for your positive continuous engagement. > > > > BR > > > > Dr. Sami H.O. Salih > Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST > Head of R&D, NTC, SUDAN > President of SDv6TF > T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 > > From: Noah > Sent: Thursday, July 4, 2019 1:41 AM > To: Ahmed Fadl > Cc: Community-Discuss at afrinic.net; wafa Dahmani > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections > > > > Dear Ahmed > > > > First and foremost, welcome on-board this community mailing list since I > am seeing you post for the first time ever and I hope you will continue to > engage in various discussions as a member of the community now. > > > > So, I have been catching up with email and I would like to also contribute > to the discussion by stating a few things in reference to people being > biased in general. > > > > Let me introduce myself first. I personally work for AS37100 a member of > AfriNIC, I was popularly elected by the community as a volunteer to the > AfriNIC ASO - AC and my term ends next year in 2020, I am a secretary > general of an ISP association in my country of residence, and I am > generally involved within the AFRICAN internet community as a volunteer > with various non-profit organizations because voluntary work is fulfilling. > However, whatever I say here often is from a personal point of view unless > I state otherwise. > > > > I am telling you all this because, with all my years of engagement in this > community, I have always spoken in my own personal capacity that is why I > use my own personal email address. Nothing I say is ever a representation > of any of the organization I am affiliated with, though so often, my > affiliations have been used by some members of this community to attack my > personal character, sometime as far as going after my employment just > because of my personal views on various matters pertaining the African > Internet Community. What I am trying to say is that, Wafa as a community > member, just like me, so often speaks on her own personal capacity and I > believe she has since clarified this to you and the community. > > > > Therefore, I doubt its "bias"as you put it ...... and my view of that > email from her to you is basically an elections campaign for a candidate > and candidates of her choice and in the end, her efforts seems to have paid > off as some of the candidate she was supporting for the Northern Africa > seat Dr.Habib ended up getting the highest votes ever of all candidates in > the entire board elections. I was on the ground in Kampala and Habib did > well also in terms of campaigning, so did other candidates and I can > understand why he was Wafa's choice and and her strategy for the Northern > Africa candidate for board election did indeed work. That is what good > mobilization in campaigns does. > > > > In fact just in the same elections, there was a very well coordinated > campaign that involved among other things, mudslinging of a specific > candidate by some members of the various constituencies within the > community and this also perfectly OK. Folks can go as far as using print > media and sometime private lobbying through mailing lists and chat rooms. > Its the nature of politicking and campaigns are tough and sometimes they > get ugly, after all, not all candidates are supposed to be liked by the > entire electorate yet politicking still goes on. This is basically pure > politics 101 and its perfectly acceptable and normal and as they say, > politics is part of daily life and so many of us in this community have > been party to this and its nothing new. > > > > I submit to you that, being a member of, say, the AfriNIC appeals > committee, or ASO-AC or GC ...you name it, does not stop someone from > having their own subjective views nor does it stop them from being involved > in community politics at a personal level. Remember above and beyond, we > are all part of the Internet community before our various affiliations and > after being party to these affiliations, we continue to be members of the > internet community and remain in this community. > > > > What really matters is respect for each other and how we treat each other > even when we disagree because in the end, its through this politics that we > progress as we continue to individually contribute, improve and resolve > some of our challenges. > > Cheers and I look forward to more engagement with you Mr.Ahmed. > > Noah > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 3, 2019 at 2:17 PM Ahmed Fadl wrote: > > Hi Wafa, > > > > > > Thanks for your email. > > > > I, among other members of AFRINIC in Egypt, received the following email > from you many times. > > > > I wondered at that time why should I vote for these candidates specially > for those in Eastern and Southern regions while each one was the sole > candidate in his region. I quote this from your email "Ladies and > Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy ...." what is your strategy and > who are you ? > > > > > > If you are talking about biasing the community, So, do you consider your > email as a "member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex > Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC." fall under what ? > > > > I sent this mail many time but I don?t know why I can?t find this mail on > community > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Ahmed Fadl > > > > > > From: wafa Dahmani [mailto:wafatn7604 at gmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 1:05 PM > To: wafa Dahmani > Subject: AFRINIC Borad Elections > > > > > > > > Dear, > > My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African > community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; > ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC. > I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates: > > Board of Directors: > North Africa (seat 1) > > ? Habin Youssef > > West Africa (seat 2) > > ? Ly Ousmane > > > South Africa (seat 5) > > ? Mpisane Vika William > > > East Africa (seat 6) > > ? Nkusi Robert Ford > > > Non-regional (seat 7) > > ? Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye > > > > > Election Number Resource Organization Number Council > > ? Mustapha Ben Jemaa > > > Election Policy Development Working Group > > ? Komi Elitcha > > ? Sami Hassan > > > Election Governance Committee > > ? Daniel Nanghaka > > Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy and in order to > preserve AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right > candidates for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all > our efforts and vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for > an adequate board > > the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very > simple for all categories except the policy development Working group where > we want you to mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates > We strongly solicit your support > > Thank you > > Wafa Dahmani > > member AFRINIC Appeal Committee > Global IGF MAG member > ASO / AC excom member > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing > list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > ********************************************** > IPv4 is over > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > http://www.theipv6company.com > The IPv6 Company > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or > confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of > the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized > disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this > information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly > prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the > intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or > use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including > attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal > offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this > communication and delete it. > > > ********************************************** > IPv4 is over > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > http://www.theipv6company.com > The IPv6 Company > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or > confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of > the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized > disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this > information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly > prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the > intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or > use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including > attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal > offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this > communication and delete it. > > > > > > > ********************************************** > IPv4 is over > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > http://www.theipv6company.com > The IPv6 Company > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or > confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of > the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized > disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this > information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly > prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the > intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or > use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including > attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal > offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this > communication and delete it. > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20190705/3b452a3f/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2019 23:10:10 +0200 > From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ > To: "Community-Discuss at afrinic.net" > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections > Message-ID: <915AB339-DCEE-4DD3-8C82-8BF654A5B536 at consulintel.es> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi Noah, > > > > I just responded to a previous email on this. > > > > The law is not about ?if you don?t like an email send it to the junk box?. > The law is about protecting people privacy and emails are (in most of the > countries in the world), personal data. > > > > Nobody can use emails for a different purpose as the one they have been > provided. Spam is not about ?repetitive? emails. Spam is ?any? single email > that is not authorized, because you didn?t provided the email for that. > > > > Saying ?send it to the junk box? is like saying a victim of rape (or > whatever other crime), is your fault, you were on the wrong streeet on the > wrong time, don?t go there. > > > > I understand that in some countries this is not the law, but we should > respect, when working in the Afrinic enviroment, the laws from Mauritious, > which is one of the countries that has already agreed on those data > protection regulations (GDPR). > > > > Regards, > > Jordi > > @jordipalet > > > > > > > > El 5/7/19 10:51, "Noah" escribi?: > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 1:42 AM JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss < > community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > > Hi Noah, > > > > I?m sure we all have contacts from lots of people from the community, but > we use those contacts for the reason they have been provided, is not lawful > to use those for anything else. > > > > I have sent some of my contacts an emails that were not related to the > original reasons the email was provided for. I have received emails from my > contacts and people who are not my contact. I even receive calls from > people I don't know and who are not my in my mobile phone contact. If I > found the email reasonable, I act on it otherwise I delete it, simple as > that. If you don't like the email, send it to the SPAM/JUNK email, simple > as that. If you don't like the phone call, drop it. > > > > People share other peoples contacts email/phones and people ask other > people about other peoples contacts. In my country, I even receive > presidential campaign text messages and sometime from even member of > parliament requesting for my vote in the national elections. Candidates and > their supports always go so far in outreach activities in order to > consolidate support from different constituencies for their preferred > candidate and its the nature of political campaigns world over. > > > > If the same email or call is made frequently, then that is a different > story. > > > > Noah > > > > ********************************************** > IPv4 is over > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > http://www.theipv6company.com > The IPv6 Company > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or > confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of > the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized > disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this > information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly > prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the > intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or > use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including > attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal > offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this > communication and delete it. > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20190705/3d737698/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2019 23:13:29 +0200 > From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ > To: "Community-Discuss at afrinic.net" > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > Hi Alan, > > If the board can't investigate that, we may have a problem, because > Afrinic has to comply with GDPR. > > I don't know if those emails come from whois or something else, but some > logs may tell. > > I my opinion it will be nicer to get a response from Wafa, and I'm sure > the community will be happy to forgive her. My intent is not to punish > anyone, just to make sure that we find solutions to possible problems and > mistakes and avoid repeating them. > > Regards, > Jordi > @jordipalet > > > > ?El 5/7/19 10:16, "Alan Barrett" escribi?: > > > > > On 3 Jul 2019, at 15:50, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss < > community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > > > > I?m angrier about this as much as I think on it again. > > > > Can the board and the staff investigate this? > > > > Can all the people that got those emails confirm if they have > provided voluntarily their emails or if they have participated in Afrinic > lists, or if those emails are part of their Afrinic contacts, in order to > understand if this personal data (emails are personal data), have been > collected from Afrinic internal databases. > > There is no reasonable way for AFRINIC staff to investigate whether > the recipients had agreed to receive the messages sent by Wafa Dahmani. > There is also no reasonable way for staff to investigate whether email > addresses were collected from the public WHOIS database. There is no > non-public AFRINIC database that could have been used. > > Regards, > Alan Barrett > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > > > ********************************************** > IPv4 is over > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > http://www.theipv6company.com > The IPv6 Company > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or > confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of > the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized > disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this > information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly > prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the > intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or > use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including > attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal > offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this > communication and delete it. > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2019 23:16:13 +0200 > From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ > To: community-discuss > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against W > Message-ID: <341A8F4C-F4BC-4DCB-AB9E-5A24B20E1C4E at consulintel.es> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi Mirriam, > > > > I don?t agree. The only way for organizations and communities to go > forward is to find solutions to problems. > > > > If we don?t do that now, we will forget about this for 1 year, and then > the mistake will be repeated by someone else. Is that what we want or we > prefer to find our way into our self-regulation to avoid repeating over and > over mistakes? > > > > Regards, > > Jordi > > @jordipalet > > > > > > > > El 5/7/19 14:46, "Mirriam via Community-Discuss" < > community-discuss at afrinic.net> escribi?: > > > > Hi guys > > > > So I have been following these discussions and what i have noted is, some > community members accusing others for something they also do. > > > > Wafa clarified earlier that she was lobbying in her personal capacity for > her preferred candidates from Northern Africa and others. And Mr.Dewole was > also lobbying for his preferred board candidates Seun and Adewale within > Nigeria. And Andrew Alston was lobbying for his preferred board candidates > Sunday, Haitham and Silber in the past elections. > > > > Seems to me that different members from the community are also engaged in > lobbying from what I have read with each individual stating their own > reasons and plans why they prefer those candidates. > > > > Elections are over. We should concentrate on other important issues and > maybe every lobbyist out there can revisit their lobbying activities when > election season opens again. > > > > I don't see anything constructive from this discussion other than the fact > that it has diverted attention from the email Wafa sent in an attempt to > help new members of the community to get knowledge about the PDP . > > > > As for Larus Foundation Fellowship issue which Wafa raised earlier before > this confusion of lobbying, I think Afrinic needs to intervene since they > run fellowship programs and show leadership so that the PDP is not abused > further by other third parties. Third parties can directly work with > Afrinic to remove doubt from the community. > > > > Mirriam. > > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > > > > On Fri, Jul 5, 2019 at 1:22 PM, Andrew Alston > > wrote: > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing > list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > > ********************************************** > IPv4 is over > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > http://www.theipv6company.com > The IPv6 Company > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or > confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of > the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized > disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this > information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly > prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the > intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or > use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including > attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal > offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this > communication and delete it. > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20190705/048211eb/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2019 22:57:37 +0100 > From: Omo Oaiya > To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ > Cc: "Community-Discuss at afrinic.net" > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections > Message-ID: <6047FDC9-1C45-4025-B62B-24C315664C97 at wacren.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Jordi, > > > > On 5 Jul 2019, at 22:13, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss < > community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > > > > Hi Alan, > > > > If the board can't investigate that, we may have a problem, because > Afrinic has to comply with GDPR. > > > > I don't know if those emails come from whois or something else, but some > logs may tell. > > > ?may have a problem > > ?..I don?t know if those .. > > Seems to me that you are fishing and stretching this a bit. What > responsibilities would AFRINIC not have complied with in this case? > > > > > I my opinion it will be nicer to get a response from Wafa, and I'm sure > the community will be happy to forgive her. > > > If anything, this business is between Wafa and the folks with whom she > communicated. I don?t see how ?forgiveness? by the community comes in. > > > My intent is not to punish anyone, > > Even if it were, how would you punish anyone?? > > > just to make sure that we find solutions to possible problems and > mistakes and avoid repeating them. > > It is starting to look like you have more in mind than that. > > Best wishes > Omo > > > > > Regards, > > Jordi > > @jordipalet > > > > > > > > ?El 5/7/19 10:16, "Alan Barrett" escribi?: > > > > > > > >> On 3 Jul 2019, at 15:50, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss < > community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > >> > >> I?m angrier about this as much as I think on it again. > >> > >> Can the board and the staff investigate this? > >> > >> Can all the people that got those emails confirm if they have provided > voluntarily their emails or if they have participated in Afrinic lists, or > if those emails are part of their Afrinic contacts, in order to understand > if this personal data (emails are personal data), have been collected from > Afrinic internal databases. > > > > There is no reasonable way for AFRINIC staff to investigate whether > the recipients had agreed to receive the messages sent by Wafa Dahmani. > There is also no reasonable way for staff to investigate whether email > addresses were collected from the public WHOIS database. There is no > non-public AFRINIC database that could have been used. > > > > Regards, > > Alan Barrett > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Community-Discuss mailing list > > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > > > > > > > > ********************************************** > > IPv4 is over > > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > > http://www.theipv6company.com > > The IPv6 Company > > > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or > confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of > the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized > disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this > information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly > prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the > intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or > use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including > attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal > offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this > communication and delete it. > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Community-Discuss mailing list > > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > Omo OAIYA > Chief Strategy Officer/Directeur de la Strat?gie | WACREN < > http://www.wacren.net/> > m: +234 808 888 1571 , +233 205 228 693 > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20190705/ec90f07d/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2019 00:01:57 +0200 > From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ > To: "Community-Discuss at afrinic.net" > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections > Message-ID: <6DE8C602-9A82-4A7B-890D-638F5CF717C4 at consulintel.es> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi Ommo, > > > > Responding very shortly: > > > > If the emails come from an internal Afrinic database (for example, > membership), then the data protection regulations are not efficient. > > > > The nicer/faster solution is that Wafa tell us how the emails were > collected, because if there is some unexpected ?open? database, we need to > correct it. > > > > Regards, > > Jordi > > @jordipalet > > > > > > > > El 5/7/19 23:57, "Omo Oaiya" escribi?: > > > > Jordi, > > > > > > On 5 Jul 2019, at 22:13, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss < > community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > > > > Hi Alan, > > If the board can't investigate that, we may have a problem, because > Afrinic has to comply with GDPR. > > I don't know if those emails come from whois or something else, but some > logs may tell. > > > > > > ?may have a problem > > > > ?..I don?t know if those .. > > > > Seems to me that you are fishing and stretching this a bit. What > responsibilities would AFRINIC not have complied with in this case? > > > > > I my opinion it will be nicer to get a response from Wafa, and I'm sure > the community will be happy to forgive her. > > > > > > If anything, this business is between Wafa and the folks with whom she > communicated. I don?t see how ?forgiveness? by the community comes in. > > > > My intent is not to punish anyone, > > > > Even if it were, how would you punish anyone?? > > > > just to make sure that we find solutions to possible problems and mistakes > and avoid repeating them. > > > > It is starting to look like you have more in mind than that. > > > > Best wishes > > Omo > > > > > Regards, > Jordi > @jordipalet > > > > ?El 5/7/19 10:16, "Alan Barrett" escribi?: > > > > > > On 3 Jul 2019, at 15:50, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss < > community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > > I?m angrier about this as much as I think on it again. > > Can the board and the staff investigate this? > > Can all the people that got those emails confirm if they have provided > voluntarily their emails or if they have participated in Afrinic lists, or > if those emails are part of their Afrinic contacts, in order to understand > if this personal data (emails are personal data), have been collected from > Afrinic internal databases. > > > There is no reasonable way for AFRINIC staff to investigate whether the > recipients had agreed to receive the messages sent by Wafa Dahmani. There > is also no reasonable way for staff to investigate whether email addresses > were collected from the public WHOIS database. There is no non-public > AFRINIC database that could have been used. > > Regards, > Alan Barrett > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > > > ********************************************** > IPv4 is over > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > http://www.theipv6company.com > The IPv6 Company > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or > confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of > the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized > disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this > information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly > prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the > intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or > use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including > attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal > offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this > communication and delete it. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > > > Omo OAIYA > Chief Strategy Officer/Directeur de la Strat?gie | WACREN > m: +234 808 888 1571 , +233 205 228 693 > > > > > > > > > > > > > ********************************************** > IPv4 is over > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > http://www.theipv6company.com > The IPv6 Company > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or > confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of > the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized > disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this > information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly > prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the > intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or > use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including > attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal > offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this > communication and delete it. > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20190706/5fe151d6/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2019 23:06:58 +0100 > From: Omo Oaiya > To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ > Cc: "Community-Discuss at afrinic.net" > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > > On 5 Jul 2019, at 23:01, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss < > community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > > > > Hi Ommo, > > > > Responding very shortly: > > > > If the emails come from an internal Afrinic database (for example, > membership), then the data protection regulations are not efficient. > > Perhaps you missed this? > > > > > On 5 Jul 2019, at 09:13, Alan Barrett wrote: > > > > There is no non-public AFRINIC database that could have been used. > > > > > > > The nicer/faster solution is that Wafa tell us how the emails were > collected, because if there is some unexpected ?open? database, we need to > correct it. > > > > OK. Ask her nicely then. She might ?forgive? you and tell you. > > > > Regards, > > Jordi > > > > @jordipalet > > > > > > > > > > > > El 5/7/19 23:57, "Omo Oaiya" Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>> escribi?: > > > > Jordi, > > > > > > > >> On 5 Jul 2019, at 22:13, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss < > community-discuss at afrinic.net > > wrote: > >> > >> Hi Alan, > >> > >> If the board can't investigate that, we may have a problem, because > Afrinic has to comply with GDPR. > >> > >> I don't know if those emails come from whois or something else, but > some logs may tell. > > > > > > ?may have a problem > > > > ?..I don?t know if those .. > > > > Seems to me that you are fishing and stretching this a bit. What > responsibilities would AFRINIC not have complied with in this case? > > > >> > >> I my opinion it will be nicer to get a response from Wafa, and I'm sure > the community will be happy to forgive her. > > > > > > If anything, this business is between Wafa and the folks with whom she > communicated. I don?t see how ?forgiveness? by the community comes in. > > > >> My intent is not to punish anyone, > > > > Even if it were, how would you punish anyone?? > > > > > >> just to make sure that we find solutions to possible problems and > mistakes and avoid repeating them. > > > > It is starting to look like you have more in mind than that. > > > > Best wishes > > Omo > > > >> > >> Regards, > >> Jordi > >> @jordipalet > >> > >> > >> > >> ?El 5/7/19 10:16, "Alan Barrett" alan.barrett at afrinic.net>> escribi?: > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> On 3 Jul 2019, at 15:50, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss < > community-discuss at afrinic.net > > wrote: > >>> > >>> I?m angrier about this as much as I think on it again. > >>> > >>> Can the board and the staff investigate this? > >>> > >>> Can all the people that got those emails confirm if they have provided > voluntarily their emails or if they have participated in Afrinic lists, or > if those emails are part of their Afrinic contacts, in order to understand > if this personal data (emails are personal data), have been collected from > Afrinic internal databases. > >> > >> There is no reasonable way for AFRINIC staff to investigate whether > the recipients had agreed to receive the messages sent by Wafa Dahmani. > There is also no reasonable way for staff to investigate whether email > addresses were collected from the public WHOIS database. There is no > non-public AFRINIC database that could have been used. > >> > >> Regards, > >> Alan Barrett > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Community-Discuss mailing list > >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss < > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ********************************************** > >> IPv4 is over > >> Are you ready for the new Internet ? > >> http://www.theipv6company.com > >> The IPv6 Company > >> > >> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or > confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of > the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized > disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this > information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly > prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the > intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or > use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including > attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal > offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this > communication and delete it. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Community-Discuss mailing list > >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss < > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss> > > > > > > Omo OAIYA > > Chief Strategy Officer/Directeur de la Strat?gie | WACREN < > http://www.wacren.net/> > > m: +234 808 888 1571 , +233 205 228 693 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ********************************************** > > IPv4 is over > > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > > http://www.theipv6company.com > > The IPv6 Company > > > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or > confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of > the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized > disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this > information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly > prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the > intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or > use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including > attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal > offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this > communication and delete it. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Community-Discuss mailing list > > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss < > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss> > > > Omo OAIYA > Chief Strategy Officer/Directeur de la Strat?gie | WACREN < > http://www.wacren.net/> > m: +234 808 888 1571 , +233 205 228 693 > > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20190705/3f9096e6/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2019 01:15:06 +0300 > From: Noah > To: Omo Oaiya > Cc: "Community-Discuss at afrinic.net" > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections > Message-ID: > < > CAEqgTWb5hUzSXz9msocRcWN5MhELhnOvxefNOXcKMOyUPztxrQ at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > On Sat, Jul 6, 2019 at 1:09 AM Omo Oaiya wrote: > > > > > > > On 5 Jul 2019, at 23:01, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss < > > community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > > > > Hi Ommo, > > > > Responding very shortly: > > > > If the emails come from an internal Afrinic database (for example, > > membership), then the data protection regulations are not efficient. > > > > > > Perhaps you missed this? > > > > > > > > On 5 Jul 2019, at 09:13, Alan Barrett wrote: > > > > There is no non-public AFRINIC database that could have been used. > > > > > > > > > > The nicer/faster solution is that Wafa tell us how the emails were > > collected, because if there is some unexpected ?open? database, we need > to > > correct it. > > > > > > > > OK. Ask her nicely then. She might ?forgive? you and tell you. > > > > I doubt she will because Jordi (supposed champion of GDPR) seems to be > attempting to harrass Wafa. > > Noah > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20190706/5d4c07f3/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2019 23:40:14 +0000 (UTC) > From: Mirriam > To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ , JORDI PALET > MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss , > community-discuss > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against W > Message-ID: <1432884215.2265408.1562370014688 at mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi Jordi > I have already suggested a solution of AfriNIC taking a leadership role > and providing a solution to the challenge presented by Larus Foundation a > third party fellowship provider whose activities should be discouraged as > they seem to undermine the Policy Development Process. > Since Larus Foundation fellowship program is not popular within the > community due to the issues raised by members of the community, my > suggestion and I will repeat again, is that AFRINIC? takes a central role > with matters related to fellowship. Larus Foundation is better of working > with AfriNIC, if indeed they mean well for this community.? > Only AfriNIC should be responsible for fellowship programs that are > related to the AfriNIC PDP to avoid bias, influence and the undermining of > the PDP.?? > Only AfriNIC can be transparent and? trusted to offer support and > education to fellows about the PDP as well as being the main contact for > any form of fellowship. > This is how we can fix this issue.??Mirriam. > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > > On Sat, Jul 6, 2019 at 12:16 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via > Community-Discuss wrote: > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20190705/c390adcc/attachment-0002.html > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... > Name: Untitled > URL: < > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20190705/c390adcc/attachment-0002.ksh > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2019 23:40:14 +0000 (UTC) > From: Mirriam > To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ , JORDI PALET > MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss , > community-discuss > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against W > Message-ID: <1432884215.2265408.1562370014688 at mail.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi Jordi > I have already suggested a solution of AfriNIC taking a leadership role > and providing a solution to the challenge presented by Larus Foundation a > third party fellowship provider whose activities should be discouraged as > they seem to undermine the Policy Development Process. > Since Larus Foundation fellowship program is not popular within the > community due to the issues raised by members of the community, my > suggestion and I will repeat again, is that AFRINIC? takes a central role > with matters related to fellowship. Larus Foundation is better of working > with AfriNIC, if indeed they mean well for this community.? > Only AfriNIC should be responsible for fellowship programs that are > related to the AfriNIC PDP to avoid bias, influence and the undermining of > the PDP.?? > Only AfriNIC can be transparent and? trusted to offer support and > education to fellows about the PDP as well as being the main contact for > any form of fellowship. > This is how we can fix this issue.??Mirriam. > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > > On Sat, Jul 6, 2019 at 12:16 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via > Community-Discuss wrote: > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20190705/c390adcc/attachment-0003.html > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... > Name: Untitled > URL: < > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20190705/c390adcc/attachment-0003.ksh > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2019 06:42:19 +0100 > From: Daniel Yakmut > To: Seun Ojedeji > Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC , > Hago Dafalla , rpd , > hago.dafalla at gmail.com > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Letter of Appointment for Hago > Dafalla > Message-ID: > aJ8042kY2bnSqQBde94i32ezmJ2ox9D_sp2VGLY9Q at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > I went online to the ICT foundation it seems Hago was just appointed as > propagated everywhere. > > Cheers > > On Jul 5, 2019 10:03 AM, "Seun Ojedeji" wrote: > > I have seen this same mail sent to many list, am not sure why this is > relevant on any of the AFRINIC lists nor the other lists where I have seen > it. > > In view of this I wonder if this is actually some form of spamming, perhaps > Hago didn't send this > > Regards > Sent from my mobile > Kindly excuse brevity and typos > > On Thu, 4 Jul 2019, 17:02 Hago Dafalla via RPD, wrote: > > > Dear Friends > > > > I have been Appointment as a Regional Director for East Africa, for The > > African ICT Foundation. Please find the attached Letter of Appointment > for > > your consideration. Attached is a press release for engagement. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > Hago Dafalla > > _______________________________________________ > > RPD mailing list > > RPD at afrinic.net > > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd > > > _______________________________________________ > RPD mailing list > RPD at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20190706/9e4b3f9e/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 15 > Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2019 10:39:37 +0200 > From: Mark Elkins > To: community-discuss at afrinic.net > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against W > Message-ID: <001ba2e6-0da4-3c55-f901-ab98bdb19f98 at posix.co.za> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" > > > On 2019/07/06 01:40, Mirriam via Community-Discuss wrote: > > Hi Jordi > > > > I have already suggested a solution of AfriNIC taking a leadership > > role and providing a solution to the challenge presented by Larus > > Foundation a third party fellowship provider whose activities should > > be discouraged as they seem to undermine the Policy Development Process. > > > > Since Larus Foundation fellowship program is not popular within the > > community due to the issues raised by members of the community, my > > suggestion and I will repeat again, is that AFRINIC? takes a central > > role with matters related to fellowship. Larus Foundation is better of > > working with AfriNIC, if indeed they mean well for this community. > > I'm sorry - but what gives you the right to speak on my behalf? I'm > happy with the Larus Foundation fellowship program. Sure, they could do > better. So could you, it seems, as in I have never given my consent for > you to speak on my behalf - please refrain from doing so. > > > > > > Only AfriNIC should be responsible for fellowship programs that are > > related to the AfriNIC PDP to avoid bias, influence and the > > undermining of the PDP. > > > > Only AfriNIC can be transparent and? trusted to offer support and > > education to fellows about the PDP as well as being the main contact > > for any form of fellowship. > > > > This is how we can fix this issue. > > Mirriam. > > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > > < > https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature > > > > > > On Sat, Jul 6, 2019 at 12:16 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via > > Community-Discuss > > wrote: > > _______________________________________________ > > Community-Discuss mailing list > > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > > > -- > Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa > mje at posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496 > For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20190706/3029d247/attachment.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 505, Issue 1 > ************************************************* > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chii.ngek at gmail.com Sat Jul 6 12:04:16 2019 From: chii.ngek at gmail.com (Augustine CHII Ngek) Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2019 13:04:16 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against W In-Reply-To: <20190706115456.Horde.ziFRbsk2MlXNPcH655Cp2fC@musatesa.net> References: <1596679867.567581.1562168815318.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> <92B8D2EE-27F4-4320-9F5C-C53131E43C7E@liquidtelecom.com> <71CA8E04-00C6-4F6A-B6D6-A9217C0695E5@nftconsult.com> <595C0073-A790-40D3-96BA-D4AC380DC38C@nftconsult.com> <2010046842.2086490.1562330630785@mail.yahoo.com> <341A8F4C-F4BC-4DCB-AB9E-5A24B20E1C4E@consulintel.es> <1432884215.2265408.1562370014688@mail.yahoo.com> <20190706115456.Horde.ziFRbsk2MlXNPcH655Cp2fC@musatesa.net> Message-ID: Dear All, A lot of ink has flown concerning this issue, let AFRINIC takes her responsibilities meanwhile the community should take cognizance of the facts so that we can move ahead. We can only put measures to avert this next time and or put to task what they have been voted to do. On Sat, 6 Jul 2019, 10:56 Ousmane M. TESSA, wrote: > Dear all, Again and again, let's be more constructive bearing in mind our > "common denominator" to use our time reading and discussing LONG messages! > > > I hope that such clear proposas form Jordi & Mirriam, will consolidate > transparency and trust in our community, and will gain support of all of > us, beyond their specific acceptions of AfriNIC. > > For the sake of strengthen our community, this very easy to implement > suggestion can put an end to all these disputes around an entity, which can > and have to respect such rules, when agreed by all of us. > > Let's go out quickly from vain quarrels, even fueled by invisible hands > usually in Africa. > > Just stand up to stop anyone, within ou outside our community, who wants > to proceed just by " divide, then conquer". > > Thank for all our community members ( inside and outsider Africa) for > their genuine contribution to permit AfriNIC to fullfill its mandate and > gain in momentum towards its objectives. > > The last not the least, those who to consider AfriNIC as a "game meat" > will face fierce hitback from our community. > > Dr Ousmane TESSA > > Mirriam via Community-Discuss a ?crit : > > Hi Jordi > > I have already suggested a solution of AfriNIC taking a leadership role > and providing a solution to the challenge presented by Larus Foundation a > third party fellowship provider whose activities should be discouraged as > they seem to undermine the Policy Development Process. > > Since Larus Foundation fellowship program is not popular within the > community due to the issues raised by members of the community, my > suggestion and I will repeat again, is that AFRINIC takes a central role > with matters related to fellowship. Larus Foundation is better of working > with AfriNIC, if indeed they mean well for this community. > > Only AfriNIC should be responsible for fellowship programs that are > related to the AfriNIC PDP to avoid bias, influence and the undermining of > the PDP. > > Only AfriNIC can be transparent and trusted to offer support and > education to fellows about the PDP as well as being the main contact for > any form of fellowship. > > This is how we can fix this issue. > > Mirriam. > > Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android > > > On Sat, Jul 6, 2019 at 12:16 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss > wrote: > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > > ************************************************** > Dr Ousmane MOUSSA TESSA > D?partement de math?matiques et d'informatique > Universit? A. Moumouni, Niamey, NIGER > **************************************************** > Adresse postale: B.P. 10.111 Niamey, NIGER > T?l?phone (domicile): +227 20 31 52 28 > (mobile) : +227 93 77 74 93 / 91 49 16 39 / 96 27 99 92 > **************************************************** > E-mail: ousmane(at)musatesa.net ou musatesa(at)yahoo.com > Skype : musatesa > ************************************************ > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dwizard65 at gmail.com Sun Jul 7 09:12:27 2019 From: dwizard65 at gmail.com (Emem William) Date: Sun, 7 Jul 2019 10:12:27 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against W In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good Morning all, I support Mirriam's view about fellowship program (with respect to Larus Fellowship and and others) as a member of this community. However, let AFRINIC devise means on how to educate new comers on the RPD before the meeting cos they are in a better position to do that. Thanks. Warm regards, Emem William (Snr) On Sat, Jul 6, 2019, 15:43 Gregoire Ehoumi via RPD Andrew, > > I'm also a member of this community and I support Mirriam and the > substance of her email. > > Are you considering the member of this community like me as "few > detractors" ? > > Please let the others "plenty members" speak for themselves. > > --Gregoire > > ------ Original message------ > *From: *Andrew Alston > *Date: *Sat, Jul 6, 2019 12:09 AM > *To: *mirriamlauren at yahoo.com;JORDI PALET MARTINEZ;rpd at afrinic.net; > *Cc: * > *Subject:*Re: [rpd] [Community-Discuss] Lobbying Allegations against W > > Mirriam, > > > > I have just one question ??? why do you feel that you can talk on behalf > of the community in the way that you are? You state: > > *Since Larus Foundation fellowship program is not popular within the > community due to the issues raised by members of the community, my > suggestion and I will repeat again, is that AFRINIC takes a central role > with matters related to fellowship. Larus Foundation is better of working > with AfriNIC, if indeed they mean well for this community. * > > > > Who is this community you refer to? Because ??? I???m pretty sure there > are plenty members of this community who are just fine with what they have > done ??? myself included ??? and in fact the opposition has been relatively > limited. So ??? is the community suddenly just a few detractors? Does > this mean I, and others like me, are not part of ???the community???? I > really get a little concerned when I pretty consistently see these > grandiose statements on behalf of ???the community??? rather than stating > individual opinions, or the opinions of a specific sub-set. > > > > Andrew > > > _______________________________________________ > RPD mailing list > RPD at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Wed Jul 10 04:55:34 2019 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2019 21:55:34 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: References: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com> Message-ID: <11D6760B-E00B-4491-B0EB-C35DC8EBF14D@delong.com> Sami, I would hope that you (and others) can see the difference between your signature as SUST (which merely depicts an affiliation) and campaigning with a signature that purports to represent multiple groups seen by many in the community as authority figures and/or positions of responsibility within the community. You will note, for example, that when I go to the microphone or post something on the list, I do not include anything about my membership on the ARIN advisory council and in many cases, will go out of my way to make it very clear that I am speaking only for myself and not representing the views of ARIN, the AC, etc. IMHO, there?s nothing particularly wrong with the content of Wafa?s email, but, if she was going to put that content above the signature she did, she should have made it clear that those groups were not endorsing the candidates or opinions expressed. Owen > On Jul 3, 2019, at 04:47 , Sami Salih wrote: > > Salam, > > I see this email sent to individuals to support/campaign for some nominators (I'm not in agreement with all proposed names) who are among the public slat of AFRINIC candidates, IMHO any one is free to campaign. The undersigned signature represent the level of engagement of the sender in the community and gives the recipient more confident about her selection to the benefit of the community. This is too far from sponsoring youth and educate them in a way that may push them to support/oppose something. > My personal signature as SUST employee did't mean my view i this email represent SUST! > > BR > > Dr. Sami H.O. Salih > Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST > Head of R&D, NTC, SUDAN > President of SDv6TF > T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 > From: Andrew Alston > Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2019 2:28 PM > To: Ahmed Fadl; wafa Dahmani; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections > > This email raises so many questions. > > While as I have clearly stated ? I do not have ANY problem with anyone lobbying on behalf of candidates and their beliefs ? however ? I have serious issues when other groups that are meant to be neutral start doing this. > > As such, I need some clarity based on the signatures of the email. > > Is this email representative of the ASO /AC ?s view > Is this email representative of the combined view of the AFRINIC Appeal committee ? and how does that align with the neutrality that is meant to exist in such a committee. > Is this email representative of the views of Global IGF? > > I really hope not ? but ? I have to ask ? since that is what the email was signed as. > > Thanks > > Andrew > > > From: Ahmed Fadl > Sent: Wednesday, 3 July 2019 14:15 > To: wafa Dahmani ; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections > > Hi Wafa, > > > Thanks for your email. > > I, among other members of AFRINIC in Egypt, received the following email from you many times. > > I wondered at that time why should I vote for these candidates specially for those in Eastern and Southern regions while each one was the sole candidate in his region. I quote this from your email "Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy ...." what is your strategy and who are you ? > > > If you are talking about biasing the community, So, do you consider your email as a "member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC." fall under what ? > > I sent this mail many time but I don?t know why I can?t find this mail on community > > > Thanks, > > Ahmed Fadl > > > From: wafa Dahmani [mailto:wafatn7604 at gmail.com ] > Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 1:05 PM > To: wafa Dahmani > > Subject: AFRINIC Borad Elections > > > > Dear, > > My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC. > I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates: > > Board of Directors: > North Africa (seat 1) > Habin Youssef > West Africa (seat 2) > Ly Ousmane > > South Africa (seat 5) > Mpisane Vika William > > East Africa (seat 6) > Nkusi Robert Ford > > Non-regional (seat 7) > Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye > > > > Election Number Resource Organization Number Council > Mustapha Ben Jemaa > > Election Policy Development Working Group > Komi Elitcha > Sami Hassan > > Election Governance Committee > Daniel Nanghaka > Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy and in order to preserve AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right candidates for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all our efforts and vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for an adequate board > the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very simple for all categories except the policy development Working group where we want you to mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates > We strongly solicit your support > > Thank you > > Wafa Dahmani > > member AFRINIC Appeal Committee > Global IGF MAG member > ASO / AC excom member > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Wed Jul 10 05:04:27 2019 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2019 22:04:27 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: References: <59F8813D-32D2-4A91-997D-867579439B76@consulintel.es> <5ACD5EA8-9FCE-4EBC-896A-5488FB1D52DB@consulintel.es> <770CD949-AAEC-4B28-9A75-A2D047FA3AED@afrinic.net> Message-ID: > On Jul 5, 2019, at 14:13 , JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote: > > Hi Alan, > > If the board can't investigate that, we may have a problem, because Afrinic has to comply with GDPR. Why? AfriNIC is not located in the EU and does not solicit business with EU persons. AfriNIC is not, by my reading, subject to the GDPR. Even if they were, AfriNIC did not violate GDPR here. Wafa might have, but I don?t think she is subject to GDPR, either. Last I looked, Tunisia was outside EU jurisdiction. > I don't know if those emails come from whois or something else, but some logs may tell. Why is this relevant? > I my opinion it will be nicer to get a response from Wafa, and I'm sure the community will be happy to forgive her. My intent is not to punish anyone, just to make sure that we find solutions to possible problems and mistakes and avoid repeating them. I have no issue with the use of the email addresses. I think the far more important issue here is the message sent under color of authority which authority likely was not authorized to Wafa at the time. Owen > > Regards, > Jordi > @jordipalet > > > > ?El 5/7/19 10:16, "Alan Barrett" escribi?: > > > >> On 3 Jul 2019, at 15:50, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote: >> >> I?m angrier about this as much as I think on it again. >> >> Can the board and the staff investigate this? >> >> Can all the people that got those emails confirm if they have provided voluntarily their emails or if they have participated in Afrinic lists, or if those emails are part of their Afrinic contacts, in order to understand if this personal data (emails are personal data), have been collected from Afrinic internal databases. > > There is no reasonable way for AFRINIC staff to investigate whether the recipients had agreed to receive the messages sent by Wafa Dahmani. There is also no reasonable way for staff to investigate whether email addresses were collected from the public WHOIS database. There is no non-public AFRINIC database that could have been used. > > Regards, > Alan Barrett > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > > > ********************************************** > IPv4 is over > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > http://www.theipv6company.com > The IPv6 Company > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss From sami.salih at outlook.com Wed Jul 10 05:23:15 2019 From: sami.salih at outlook.com (Sami Salih) Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 05:23:15 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: <11D6760B-E00B-4491-B0EB-C35DC8EBF14D@delong.com> References: <19ec700c384b47ccbbffa3f3ebd8d965@HQ-EXMBX03.hospital57357.com> , <11D6760B-E00B-4491-B0EB-C35DC8EBF14D@delong.com> Message-ID: Ok Owen, let me agree with you this time. As I said in my first intervention in this issue I my self - and many others like you - will not state my affiliation/membership when sending such email, but in the same-time I can't blame people do. IMHO I think sending email to anonymous without stating your positions is useless especially for those who didn't have enough information about AFRINIC - and I think the group received Wafa message is one of them. I also didn't see that Wafa should apologies and we are not in a position to punish her, this is just a different way to communicate. Its OK to notifying her with our opinions - that why we are here in a community list - but we need to respect our diversity. BR Dr. Sami H.O. Salih Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST Head of R&D, NTC, SUDAN President of SDv6TF T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 ________________________________ From: Owen DeLong Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2019 7:55 AM To: Sami Salih Cc: Andrew Alston; Ahmed Fadl; wafa Dahmani; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Sami, I would hope that you (and others) can see the difference between your signature as SUST (which merely depicts an affiliation) and campaigning with a signature that purports to represent multiple groups seen by many in the community as authority figures and/or positions of responsibility within the community. You will note, for example, that when I go to the microphone or post something on the list, I do not include anything about my membership on the ARIN advisory council and in many cases, will go out of my way to make it very clear that I am speaking only for myself and not representing the views of ARIN, the AC, etc. IMHO, there?s nothing particularly wrong with the content of Wafa?s email, but, if she was going to put that content above the signature she did, she should have made it clear that those groups were not endorsing the candidates or opinions expressed. Owen On Jul 3, 2019, at 04:47 , Sami Salih > wrote: Salam, I see this email sent to individuals to support/campaign for some nominators (I'm not in agreement with all proposed names) who are among the public slat of AFRINIC candidates, IMHO any one is free to campaign. The undersigned signature represent the level of engagement of the sender in the community and gives the recipient more confident about her selection to the benefit of the community. This is too far from sponsoring youth and educate them in a way that may push them to support/oppose something. My personal signature as SUST employee did't mean my view i this email represent SUST! BR Dr. Sami H.O. Salih Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST Head of R&D, NTC, SUDAN President of SDv6TF T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 ________________________________ From: Andrew Alston > Sent: Wednesday, July 3, 2019 2:28 PM To: Ahmed Fadl; wafa Dahmani; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections This email raises so many questions. While as I have clearly stated ? I do not have ANY problem with anyone lobbying on behalf of candidates and their beliefs ? however ? I have serious issues when other groups that are meant to be neutral start doing this. As such, I need some clarity based on the signatures of the email. 1. Is this email representative of the ASO /AC ?s view 2. Is this email representative of the combined view of the AFRINIC Appeal committee ? and how does that align with the neutrality that is meant to exist in such a committee. 3. Is this email representative of the views of Global IGF? I really hope not ? but ? I have to ask ? since that is what the email was signed as. Thanks Andrew From: Ahmed Fadl > Sent: Wednesday, 3 July 2019 14:15 To: wafa Dahmani >; Community-Discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections Hi Wafa, Thanks for your email. I, among other members of AFRINIC in Egypt, received the following email from you many times. I wondered at that time why should I vote for these candidates specially for those in Eastern and Southern regions while each one was the sole candidate in his region. I quote this from your email "Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy ...." what is your strategy and who are you ? If you are talking about biasing the community, So, do you consider your email as a "member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC." fall under what ? I sent this mail many time but I don?t know why I can?t find this mail on community Thanks, Ahmed Fadl From: wafa Dahmani [mailto:wafatn7604 at gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2019 1:05 PM To: wafa Dahmani > Subject: AFRINIC Borad Elections Dear, My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC. I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates: Board of Directors: North Africa (seat 1) * Habin Youssef West Africa (seat 2) * Ly Ousmane South Africa (seat 5) * Mpisane Vika William East Africa (seat 6) * Nkusi Robert Ford Non-regional (seat 7) * Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye Election Number Resource Organization Number Council * Mustapha Ben Jemaa Election Policy Development Working Group * Komi Elitcha * Sami Hassan Election Governance Committee * Daniel Nanghaka Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy and in order to preserve AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right candidates for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all our efforts and vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for an adequate board the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very simple for all categories except the policy development Working group where we want you to mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates We strongly solicit your support Thank you Wafa Dahmani member AFRINIC Appeal Committee Global IGF MAG member ASO / AC excom member _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From walu.john at gmail.com Wed Jul 10 07:51:28 2019 From: walu.john at gmail.com (John Walu) Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 10:51:28 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: References: <59F8813D-32D2-4A91-997D-867579439B76@consulintel.es> <5ACD5EA8-9FCE-4EBC-896A-5488FB1D52DB@consulintel.es> <770CD949-AAEC-4B28-9A75-A2D047FA3AED@afrinic.net> Message-ID: @ Owen GDPR territorial scope extends beyond Europe since its is EU citizen specific rather than geo-specific. https://gdpr-info.eu/art-3-gdpr/ In other words, anyone (Data controller/processor) handling EU citizen data is automatically subject to the GDPR in the event of a data breach - irrespective of their geo-locality. Ofcourse the main issue will be if the affected EU citizen will actually file a complaint in the EU Courts or not. The second issue is whether the EU courts will find the data controller guilty and if the fined/penalized entity will to pay up or ignore given their remoteness to EU centers of power. (nb:Facebook and Google have so far been paying up ;-) Is AfriNIC bound by GDPR? The simple answer is - it depends. Do Afrinic processes and systems at any one point collect, store or process data that contains EU citizens? If the answer is NO. Then they are not bound by GDPR. If the answer is YES. Then they are potentially bound by GDPR to the extent that if that data is abused/breached, then they potentially face sanctions/penalties from EU courts. Either way, Mauritius has one of the most comprehensive Data Protection legislation on the continent and any data breach can actually be litigated locally (without the need for GDPR) with penalties to AfriNIC (if for example it is determined that email targets/addresses were harvested from Afrinic digital resources without consent from the data subjects). walu. On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 8:04 AM Owen DeLong wrote: > > > > On Jul 5, 2019, at 14:13 , JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss < > community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > > > > Hi Alan, > > > > If the board can't investigate that, we may have a problem, because > Afrinic has to comply with GDPR. > > Why? AfriNIC is not located in the EU and does not solicit business with > EU persons. > > AfriNIC is not, by my reading, subject to the GDPR. > > Even if they were, AfriNIC did not violate GDPR here. Wafa might have, but > I don?t think she is subject to GDPR, either. Last I looked, Tunisia was > outside EU jurisdiction. > > > > I don't know if those emails come from whois or something else, but some > logs may tell. > > Why is this relevant? > > > I my opinion it will be nicer to get a response from Wafa, and I'm sure > the community will be happy to forgive her. My intent is not to punish > anyone, just to make sure that we find solutions to possible problems and > mistakes and avoid repeating them. > > I have no issue with the use of the email addresses. I think the far more > important issue here is the message sent under color of authority which > authority likely was not authorized to Wafa at the time. > > Owen > > > > > Regards, > > Jordi > > @jordipalet > > > > > > > > ?El 5/7/19 10:16, "Alan Barrett" escribi?: > > > > > > > >> On 3 Jul 2019, at 15:50, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss < > community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: > >> > >> I?m angrier about this as much as I think on it again. > >> > >> Can the board and the staff investigate this? > >> > >> Can all the people that got those emails confirm if they have provided > voluntarily their emails or if they have participated in Afrinic lists, or > if those emails are part of their Afrinic contacts, in order to understand > if this personal data (emails are personal data), have been collected from > Afrinic internal databases. > > > > There is no reasonable way for AFRINIC staff to investigate whether > the recipients had agreed to receive the messages sent by Wafa Dahmani. > There is also no reasonable way for staff to investigate whether email > addresses were collected from the public WHOIS database. There is no > non-public AFRINIC database that could have been used. > > > > Regards, > > Alan Barrett > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Community-Discuss mailing list > > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > > > > > > > > ********************************************** > > IPv4 is over > > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > > http://www.theipv6company.com > > The IPv6 Company > > > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or > confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of > the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized > disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this > information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly > prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the > intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or > use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including > attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal > offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this > communication and delete it. > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Community-Discuss mailing list > > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From seeburn.k at gmail.com Wed Jul 10 08:19:36 2019 From: seeburn.k at gmail.com (Kris Seeburn) Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 12:19:36 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: References: <59F8813D-32D2-4A91-997D-867579439B76@consulintel.es> <5ACD5EA8-9FCE-4EBC-896A-5488FB1D52DB@consulintel.es> <770CD949-AAEC-4B28-9A75-A2D047FA3AED@afrinic.net> Message-ID: <3BAAC128-4FC2-434F-9079-529D84C7B2EB@gmail.com> Well said walu But the Parliament in Mauritius is about to pass the privacy law at some point which is very close to GDPR. Which is to protect the Mauritius citizens equally so I would say as I keep saying this let us just use the most not lenient laws so we have a compass to ensure compliance with the harshest one which makes it more difficult to miss out on things. Kris Seeburn Email: Seeburn.k at gmail.com Linkedin: linkedin.com/in/kseeburn/ Twitter: twitter.com/seeburnk > On Jul 10, 2019, at 11:51 AM, John Walu wrote: > > @ Owen > > GDPR territorial scope extends beyond Europe since its is EU citizen specific rather than geo-specific. > > https://gdpr-info.eu/art-3-gdpr/ > > In other words, anyone (Data controller/processor) handling EU citizen data is automatically subject to the GDPR in the event of a data breach - irrespective of their geo-locality. > > Ofcourse the main issue will be if the affected EU citizen will actually file a complaint in the EU Courts or not. The second issue is whether the EU courts will find the data controller guilty and if the fined/penalized entity will to pay up or ignore given their remoteness to EU centers of power. (nb:Facebook and Google have so far been paying up ;-) > > Is AfriNIC bound by GDPR? > > The simple answer is - it depends. > Do Afrinic processes and systems at any one point collect, store or process data that contains EU citizens? > > If the answer is NO. Then they are not bound by GDPR. > If the answer is YES. Then they are potentially bound by GDPR to the extent that if that data is abused/breached, then they potentially face sanctions/penalties from EU courts. > > Either way, Mauritius has one of the most comprehensive Data Protection legislation on the continent and any data breach can actually be litigated locally (without the need for GDPR) with penalties to AfriNIC (if for example it is determined that email targets/addresses were harvested from Afrinic digital resources without consent from the data subjects). > > walu. > > On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 8:04 AM Owen DeLong > wrote: > > > > On Jul 5, 2019, at 14:13 , JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss > wrote: > > > > Hi Alan, > > > > If the board can't investigate that, we may have a problem, because Afrinic has to comply with GDPR. > > Why? AfriNIC is not located in the EU and does not solicit business with EU persons. > > AfriNIC is not, by my reading, subject to the GDPR. > > Even if they were, AfriNIC did not violate GDPR here. Wafa might have, but I don?t think she is subject to GDPR, either. Last I looked, Tunisia was outside EU jurisdiction. > > > > I don't know if those emails come from whois or something else, but some logs may tell. > > Why is this relevant? > > > I my opinion it will be nicer to get a response from Wafa, and I'm sure the community will be happy to forgive her. My intent is not to punish anyone, just to make sure that we find solutions to possible problems and mistakes and avoid repeating them. > > I have no issue with the use of the email addresses. I think the far more important issue here is the message sent under color of authority which authority likely was not authorized to Wafa at the time. > > Owen > > > > > Regards, > > Jordi > > @jordipalet > > > > > > > > ?El 5/7/19 10:16, "Alan Barrett" > escribi?: > > > > > > > >> On 3 Jul 2019, at 15:50, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss > wrote: > >> > >> I?m angrier about this as much as I think on it again. > >> > >> Can the board and the staff investigate this? > >> > >> Can all the people that got those emails confirm if they have provided voluntarily their emails or if they have participated in Afrinic lists, or if those emails are part of their Afrinic contacts, in order to understand if this personal data (emails are personal data), have been collected from Afrinic internal databases. > > > > There is no reasonable way for AFRINIC staff to investigate whether the recipients had agreed to receive the messages sent by Wafa Dahmani. There is also no reasonable way for staff to investigate whether email addresses were collected from the public WHOIS database. There is no non-public AFRINIC database that could have been used. > > > > Regards, > > Alan Barrett > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Community-Discuss mailing list > > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > > > > > > > > ********************************************** > > IPv4 is over > > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > > http://www.theipv6company.com > > The IPv6 Company > > > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Community-Discuss mailing list > > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: article19.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 1220 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jordi.palet at consulintel.es Wed Jul 10 08:22:10 2019 From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ) Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 10:22:10 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: References: <59F8813D-32D2-4A91-997D-867579439B76@consulintel.es> <5ACD5EA8-9FCE-4EBC-896A-5488FB1D52DB@consulintel.es> <770CD949-AAEC-4B28-9A75-A2D047FA3AED@afrinic.net> Message-ID: Hi John, Right, those are the points that most of the people is missing: Citizens and Residents of the EU are protected, never mind the infringement is committed outside that territory. You may decide not to pay the fine, but then that person/organization will not be able to continue doing business with the EU persons/organizations, and even more, if you at some point come to the EU, you can get detained until you pay the fine. Mauritius signed an agreement with the EU about GDPR, so all the Mauritius organizations are also bound (Afrinic in our case). The same happened with Uruguay (so it happens the same with LACNIC). Further, there is no need for a citizen to file a complaint in the courts (of course it can be done and it can claim even damages). The process is much simpler. Any citizen/resident can file a free complaint, even via a web site if you have a digital certificate or equivalent (or by postal mail if you don?t have it), to the Data Protection Agency (of any EU country or equivalent entity in countries that signed the agreement with the EU). I?ve done that myself (even before GDPR), already about 2.000 times in the last 5 years, and I can tell that it works (and the companies pay fines), so I?m not talking about ?smoke?. The point is that in many cases, the Data Protection Agencies will open the case automatically by themselves. Before GDPR the maximum fine (for almost equivalent data protection breaches and spam) was 600.000 euros. Now is 20 million euros or up to 4% of the worldwide annual revenue of the prior financial year, whichever is higher. So, just make sure that if you are managing phone numbers or emails from EU citizens, you comply with the GDPR, and don?t provide those data to ?others? even to friends or colleagues, unless you have a previous and explicit consent from the owner. One recent example (this week) about a big fine: https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/8/20685830/british-airways-data-breach-fine-information-commissioners-office-gdpr I just hope that Afrinic has already took sufficient measures to comply with GDPR. Those fines aren?t peanuts! Right now, I just checked the privacy statement in the web site (https://afrinic.net/privacy). Sadly, I don?t think this is consistent with the latest GDPR (even for the Mauritius regulation). The board meeting on 6th May 2018 talks about that and confirms that it will be resolved before 24th May 2018 (25th was the strict deadline). If that really happened, the web site doesn?t state that. Minutes from the April 2019 still keep talking about that, but nothing clear from my reading. This needs to be corrected ****immediately****, or Afrinic can be subjected to very high fines. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 10/7/19 9:51, "John Walu" escribi?: @ Owen GDPR territorial scope extends beyond Europe since its is EU citizen specific rather than geo-specific. https://gdpr-info.eu/art-3-gdpr/ In other words, anyone (Data controller/processor) handling EU citizen data is automatically subject to the GDPR in the event of a data breach - irrespective of their geo-locality. Ofcourse the main issue will be if the affected EU citizen will actually file a complaint in the EU Courts or not. The second issue is whether the EU courts will find the data controller guilty and if the fined/penalized entity will to pay up or ignore given their remoteness to EU centers of power. (nb:Facebook and Google have so far been paying up ;-) Is AfriNIC bound by GDPR? The simple answer is - it depends. Do Afrinic processes and systems at any one point collect, store or process data that contains EU citizens? If the answer is NO. Then they are not bound by GDPR. If the answer is YES. Then they are potentially bound by GDPR to the extent that if that data is abused/breached, then they potentially face sanctions/penalties from EU courts. Either way, Mauritius has one of the most comprehensive Data Protection legislation on the continent and any data breach can actually be litigated locally (without the need for GDPR) with penalties to AfriNIC (if for example it is determined that email targets/addresses were harvested from Afrinic digital resources without consent from the data subjects). walu. On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 8:04 AM Owen DeLong wrote: > On Jul 5, 2019, at 14:13 , JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote: > > Hi Alan, > > If the board can't investigate that, we may have a problem, because Afrinic has to comply with GDPR. Why? AfriNIC is not located in the EU and does not solicit business with EU persons. AfriNIC is not, by my reading, subject to the GDPR. Even if they were, AfriNIC did not violate GDPR here. Wafa might have, but I don?t think she is subject to GDPR, either. Last I looked, Tunisia was outside EU jurisdiction. > I don't know if those emails come from whois or something else, but some logs may tell. Why is this relevant? > I my opinion it will be nicer to get a response from Wafa, and I'm sure the community will be happy to forgive her. My intent is not to punish anyone, just to make sure that we find solutions to possible problems and mistakes and avoid repeating them. I have no issue with the use of the email addresses. I think the far more important issue here is the message sent under color of authority which authority likely was not authorized to Wafa at the time. Owen > > Regards, > Jordi > @jordipalet > > > > ?El 5/7/19 10:16, "Alan Barrett" escribi?: > > > >> On 3 Jul 2019, at 15:50, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote: >> >> I?m angrier about this as much as I think on it again. >> >> Can the board and the staff investigate this? >> >> Can all the people that got those emails confirm if they have provided voluntarily their emails or if they have participated in Afrinic lists, or if those emails are part of their Afrinic contacts, in order to understand if this personal data (emails are personal data), have been collected from Afrinic internal databases. > > There is no reasonable way for AFRINIC staff to investigate whether the recipients had agreed to receive the messages sent by Wafa Dahmani. There is also no reasonable way for staff to investigate whether email addresses were collected from the public WHOIS database. There is no non-public AFRINIC database that could have been used. > > Regards, > Alan Barrett > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > > > ********************************************** > IPv4 is over > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > http://www.theipv6company.com > The IPv6 Company > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alan.barrett at afrinic.net Wed Jul 10 08:41:30 2019 From: alan.barrett at afrinic.net (Alan Barrett) Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 12:41:30 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: References: <59F8813D-32D2-4A91-997D-867579439B76@consulintel.es> <5ACD5EA8-9FCE-4EBC-896A-5488FB1D52DB@consulintel.es> <770CD949-AAEC-4B28-9A75-A2D047FA3AED@afrinic.net> Message-ID: <1A0D39BB-6C91-48AF-A6C8-C34CF1CCC66E@afrinic.net> > On 10 Jul 2019, at 12:22, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote: > > Right now, I just checked the privacy statement in the web site (https://afrinic.net/privacy). Sadly, I don?t think this is consistent with the latest GDPR (even for the Mauritius regulation). We recognise the need to update the privacy statement, and we have been working on that. Alan Barrett From matoa at vayu.net Wed Jul 10 09:36:14 2019 From: matoa at vayu.net (Mathieu Paonessa) Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 11:36:14 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: References: <59F8813D-32D2-4A91-997D-867579439B76@consulintel.es> <5ACD5EA8-9FCE-4EBC-896A-5488FB1D52DB@consulintel.es> <770CD949-AAEC-4B28-9A75-A2D047FA3AED@afrinic.net> Message-ID: Dear all, Just a quick reminder that many have forgotten:??? ??? - R?union and Mayotte are part of the Afrinic service region. ??? - There is members in both those territories that hold ressources from Afrinic (IPv4, IPv6, AS). ??? - Both territories are French and fully belong to the EU. I think this closes the debate whether Afrinic is or isn't bound to GDPR. Mathieu On 10/07/2019 09:51, John Walu wrote: > @ Owen? > > GDPR territorial scope extends beyond Europe since its is EU citizen > specific rather than geo-specific. > > https://gdpr-info.eu/art-3-gdpr/ > > In other words, anyone (Data controller/processor) handling EU citizen > data is automatically subject to the GDPR in the event of a data > breach - irrespective of their geo-locality. > > ?Ofcourse the main issue will be if the affected EU citizen will > actually file a complaint in the EU Courts or not.? The second issue > is whether the EU courts will find the data controller guilty and if > the fined/penalized entity will to pay up or ignore given their > remoteness to EU centers of power. (nb:Facebook and Google have so far > been paying up ;-) > > Is AfriNIC bound by GDPR? > > The simple answer is -? it depends.? > Do Afrinic processes and systems at any one point collect, store or > process data that contains EU citizens? > > If the answer is NO. Then they are not bound by GDPR. > If the answer is YES. Then they are potentially bound by GDPR to the > extent that if that data is abused/breached, then they potentially > face sanctions/penalties from EU courts. > > Either way, Mauritius has one of the most comprehensive Data > Protection legislation on the continent > > and any data breach can actually be litigated locally (without the > need for GDPR) with penalties to AfriNIC (if for example it is > determined that email targets/addresses were harvested from Afrinic > digital resources without consent from the data subjects). > > walu. > > On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 8:04 AM Owen DeLong > wrote: > > > > > On Jul 5, 2019, at 14:13 , JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via > Community-Discuss > wrote: > > > > Hi Alan, > > > > If the board can't investigate that, we may have a problem, > because Afrinic has to comply with GDPR. > > Why? AfriNIC is not located in the EU and does not solicit > business with EU persons. > > AfriNIC is not, by my reading, subject to the GDPR. > > Even if they were, AfriNIC did not violate GDPR here. Wafa might > have, but I don?t think she is subject to GDPR, either. Last I > looked, Tunisia was outside EU jurisdiction. > > > > I don't know if those emails come from whois or something else, > but some logs may tell. > > Why is this relevant? > > > I my opinion it will be nicer to get a response from Wafa, and > I'm sure the community will be happy to forgive her. My intent is > not to punish anyone, just to make sure that we find solutions to > possible problems and mistakes and avoid repeating them. > > I have no issue with the use of the email addresses. I think the > far more important issue here is the message sent under color of > authority which authority likely was not authorized to Wafa at the > time. > > Owen > > > > > Regards, > > Jordi > > @jordipalet > > > > > > > > ?El 5/7/19 10:16, "Alan Barrett" > escribi?: > > > > > > > >> On 3 Jul 2019, at 15:50, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via > Community-Discuss > wrote: > >> > >> I?m angrier about this as much as I think on it again. > >> > >> Can the board and the staff investigate this? > >> > >> Can all the people that got those emails confirm if they have > provided voluntarily their emails or if they have participated in > Afrinic lists, or if those emails are part of their Afrinic > contacts, in order to understand if this personal data (emails are > personal data), have been collected from Afrinic internal databases. > > > >? ? There is no reasonable way for AFRINIC staff to investigate > whether the recipients had agreed to receive the messages sent by > Wafa Dahmani.? There is also no reasonable way for staff to > investigate whether email addresses were collected from the public > WHOIS database.? There is no non-public AFRINIC database that > could have been used. > > > >? ? Regards, > >? ? Alan Barrett > > > > > >? ? _______________________________________________ > >? ? Community-Discuss mailing list > >? ? Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > > >? ? https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > > > > > > > > ********************************************** > > IPv4 is over > > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > > http://www.theipv6company.com > > The IPv6 Company > > > > This electronic message contains information which may be > privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for > the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further > non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use > of the contents of this information, even if partially, including > attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a > criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware > that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents > of this information, even if partially, including attached files, > is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so > you must reply to the original sender to inform about this > communication and delete it. > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Community-Discuss mailing list > > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ousmane at musatesa.net Wed Jul 10 09:37:33 2019 From: ousmane at musatesa.net (Ousmane M. TESSA) Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 11:37:33 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: <1A0D39BB-6C91-48AF-A6C8-C34CF1CCC66E@afrinic.net> References: <59F8813D-32D2-4A91-997D-867579439B76@consulintel.es> <5ACD5EA8-9FCE-4EBC-896A-5488FB1D52DB@consulintel.es> <770CD949-AAEC-4B28-9A75-A2D047FA3AED@afrinic.net> <1A0D39BB-6C91-48AF-A6C8-C34CF1CCC66E@afrinic.net> Message-ID: <20190710113733.Horde.vbPonlvAq6QeSYgfb2N-fie@musatesa.net> Great to AfriNIC staff to have on the table this will to be up-dated, relating to such world-wide important issues! Looking forward to seeing sound proposals & actions, among them "education kits" for the readiness of our community to complain with these nowadays "acceptable rules" of Internet beyond continents, as Internet is ONE! Merci beaucoup Alan Dr Ousmane TESSA Alan Barrett a ?crit?: >> On 10 Jul 2019, at 12:22, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via >> Community-Discuss wrote: >> >> Right now, I just checked the privacy statement in the web site >> (https://afrinic.net/privacy). Sadly, I don?t think this is >> consistent with the latest GDPR (even for the Mauritius regulation). > > We recognise the need to update the privacy statement, and we have > been working on that. > > Alan Barrett > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -- ************************************************** Dr Ousmane MOUSSA TESSA D?partement de math?matiques et d'informatique Universit? A. Moumouni, Niamey, NIGER **************************************************** Adresse postale: B.P. 10.111 Niamey, NIGER T?l?phone (domicile): +227 20 31 52 28 (mobile) : +227 93 77 74 93 / 91 49 16 39 / 96 27 99 92 **************************************************** E-mail: ousmane(at)musatesa.net ou musatesa(at)yahoo.com Skype : musatesa ************************************************ From sm+af at afrinic.net Wed Jul 10 16:25:43 2019 From: sm+af at afrinic.net (S. Moonesamy) Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 09:25:43 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Data protection In-Reply-To: References: <59F8813D-32D2-4A91-997D-867579439B76@consulintel.es> <5ACD5EA8-9FCE-4EBC-896A-5488FB1D52DB@consulintel.es> <770CD949-AAEC-4B28-9A75-A2D047FA3AED@afrinic.net> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20190710090525.0c92f638@elandnews.com> Dear Mathieu, At 02:36 AM 10-07-2019, Mathieu Paonessa wrote: >Just a quick reminder that many have forgotten: > - R?union and Mayotte are part of the Afrinic service region. Thank you for the reminder. There was a thread in 2018 about data protection [1]. There is ETS 223 [2] which is a modernization of the convention about data protection. Regards, S. Moonesamy 1. https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/2018-April/002093.html 2. https://rm.coe.int/CoERMPublicCommonSearchServices/DisplayDCTMContent?documentId=09000016808ac91a From owen at delong.com Wed Jul 10 23:00:10 2019 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 16:00:10 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani In-Reply-To: <1596679867.567581.1562168815318.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> References: <1596679867.567581.1562168815318.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn> Message-ID: <7C8BCD52-C91E-4509-8A50-9334FF9C5EBA@delong.com> Yes, but when you do, if you use that signature, you have a responsibility to make it clear that you are not speaking in an official capacity in any of those roles. Owen > On Jul 3, 2019, at 08:46 , wafa DAHMANI wrote: > > Hello All, > > I can campaign for anyone and its perfectly normal and I was speaking in my personal behalf. > > I understand that my salutations can be confusing, but I sent this email in my personal capacity. > > Being a volunteer at ASO - AC does not strip me off my rights to my personal opinions nor does it mean I can not campaign for my preferred candidates. > > In anycase, the ASO - AC has its own procedures and communication channels. > > > Wafa Dahmani > > Member AFRINIC Appeal Committee > Global IGF MAG member > ASO / AC excom member > > De: "Paschal Ochang" > ?: "community-discuss" , "rpd" > Envoy?: Mercredi 3 Juillet 2019 16:09:18 > Objet: [rpd] Lobbying Allegations against Wafa Dahmani > > Hello all, this was posted under the thread of allegations against Larus Foundation so I did the honors of opening it as separate thread so that this two issues can be dealt with separately. This was posted as an allegation towards Wafa and the mail displays a act of lobbying. Can this honorable community be clarified on this allegations please. > > Dear, > > My name is Wafa Dahmani from Tunisia, an active member of the African community and more specifically AFRINIC: member of the appeal committee; ASO / AC excom member and Ex Chair of Governance Committee '(GC) at AFRINIC. > I contact you to solicit your votes for the following candidates: > > Board of Directors: > North Africa (seat 1) > > Habin Youssef > West Africa (seat 2) > > Ly Ousmane > > South Africa (seat 5) > > Mpisane Vika William > > East Africa (seat 6) > > Nkusi Robert Ford > > Non-regional (seat 7) > > Eshun Benjamin Adzenyamebeye > > > > Election Number Resource Organization Number Council > > Mustapha Ben Jemaa > > Election Policy Development Working Group > > Komi Elitcha > Sami Hassan > > Election Governance Committee > > Daniel Nanghaka > Ladies and Gentlemen, in the context of our strategy and in order to preserve AFRINIC's interests for Africa and to be able to choose the right candidates for North Africa in the long term, it is desirable to join all our efforts and vote for these candidates who presents the best choice for an adequate board > > the de facto vote online through your interface with AFRINIC is very simple for all categories except the policy development Working group where we want you to mobilize your teams on the spot to vote for our candidates > We strongly solicit your support > > Thank you > > Wafa Dahmani > > member AFRINIC Appeal Committee > Global IGF MAG member > ASO / AC excom member > > > > _______________________________________________ > RPD mailing list > RPD at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Fri Jul 12 00:52:06 2019 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 17:52:06 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: References: <59F8813D-32D2-4A91-997D-867579439B76@consulintel.es> <5ACD5EA8-9FCE-4EBC-896A-5488FB1D52DB@consulintel.es> <770CD949-AAEC-4B28-9A75-A2D047FA3AED@afrinic.net> Message-ID: > On Jul 10, 2019, at 00:51 , John Walu wrote: > > @ Owen > > GDPR territorial scope extends beyond Europe since its is EU citizen specific rather than geo-specific. > > https://gdpr-info.eu/art-3-gdpr/ Nope? It?s EU PERSON specific, not EU citizen. EU Person has a rather odd definition, but it is a superset of EU citizens (or more accurately citizens of member nations). However? GDPR only pertains in so far as the data processing is related to: the offering of goods or services, irrespective of whether a payment of the data subject is required, to such data subjects in the Union; or the monitoring of their behaviour as far as their behaviour takes place within the Union. Since AfriNIC specifically doesn?t offer services in the EU, and doesn?t monitor the behavior of anyone to the best of my knowledge, the applicability is suspect at best. > In other words, anyone (Data controller/processor) handling EU citizen data is automatically subject to the GDPR in the event of a data breach - irrespective of their geo-locality. You also seem to have missed this part: This Regulation applies to the processing of personal data by a controller not established in the Union, but in a place where Member State law applies by virtue of public international law. While the fact that Mauritius stupidly (IMHO) signed an agreement making this paragraph problematic, many other nations in Africa have not and so it?s again questionable whether the law can be applied to entities outside of AfriNIC that are in countries that haven?t agreed to partake in this particular brand of European overreach. (Which I admit is a trick they unfortunately learned from the gestapo tactics of the US banking regulators). Note also that in Article 2 we have this: This Regulation does not apply to the processing of personal data: in the course of an activity which falls outside the scope of Union law; I?m pretty sure that AfriNIC?s issuing of IP addresses is not in any way governed by EU law. As such, the activity in question is, by my reading, exempt. > Ofcourse the main issue will be if the affected EU citizen will actually file a complaint in the EU Courts or not. The second issue is whether the EU courts will find the data controller guilty and if the fined/penalized entity will to pay up or ignore given their remoteness to EU centers of power. (nb:Facebook and Google have so far been paying up ;-) To the best of my knowledge, few, if any, of the people likely to be in the AfriNIC whois database would be EU persons since AfriNIC specifically requires the businesses they interact with to be in the AfriNIC service region. Is there a country in Africa that joined the EU without my noticing? > > Is AfriNIC bound by GDPR? > > The simple answer is - it depends. > Do Afrinic processes and systems at any one point collect, store or process data that contains EU citizens? > This is not the only criteria? Also it should be noted that the actual term is ?EU persons? and not ?EU citizens?. Further, it only applies to EU Persons when conducting activities which fall within the scope of EU law. (see Article 2 reference above). From Lexology.com (an article by Morgan Lewis & Bockius LLP): (https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=0dc9663d-ac3b-438e-adcd-1415a45f99ca) At its core, the GDPR enumerates rights of natural persons who are present within the European Union (EU), whether or not their data is in fact in the EU. The word ?citizen? does not appear in the language of the regulation, which would indicate a reluctance to simply identify rights of EU citizens as opposed to the rights of all people within the boundaries of the EU. Practically speaking, the GDPR protects the rights of anyone within its territorial reach while at the same time applying to any entity[2] using or accessing this personal data, no matter where the data exists. Trying to decipher what this means can be confusing without a more thorough analysis of the regulation and its accompanying commentary. ?? > If the answer is NO. Then they are not bound by GDPR. > If the answer is YES. Then they are potentially bound by GDPR to the extent that if that data is abused/breached, then they potentially face sanctions/penalties from EU courts. If the answer is YES, then there are more questions that need to be asked? 1. Is the person actually in the EU at the time the personal data is provided? 2. Is the person otherwise classified as an ?EU Person?? If the answer to either is YES, then there are more questions that need to be asked? If both are NO, then you?re done, no GDPR for you. 1. Is the activity in question subject to EU legal jurisdiction? If you can answer NO to this (and I can?t think of an activity where AfriNIC would be collecting PII and answer yes), then again, you?re done, GDPR doesn?t apply. > Either way, Mauritius has one of the most comprehensive Data Protection legislation on the continent and any data breach can actually be litigated locally (without the need for GDPR) with penalties to AfriNIC (if for example it is determined that email targets/addresses were harvested from Afrinic digital resources without consent from the data subjects). I?ll leave the discussion of Mauritian law to those people who may be subject to it. I?m sure AfriNIC staff and applicable legal counsel can adequately address this. Owen > > walu. > > On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 8:04 AM Owen DeLong > wrote: > > > > On Jul 5, 2019, at 14:13 , JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss > wrote: > > > > Hi Alan, > > > > If the board can't investigate that, we may have a problem, because Afrinic has to comply with GDPR. > > Why? AfriNIC is not located in the EU and does not solicit business with EU persons. > > AfriNIC is not, by my reading, subject to the GDPR. > > Even if they were, AfriNIC did not violate GDPR here. Wafa might have, but I don?t think she is subject to GDPR, either. Last I looked, Tunisia was outside EU jurisdiction. > > > > I don't know if those emails come from whois or something else, but some logs may tell. > > Why is this relevant? > > > I my opinion it will be nicer to get a response from Wafa, and I'm sure the community will be happy to forgive her. My intent is not to punish anyone, just to make sure that we find solutions to possible problems and mistakes and avoid repeating them. > > I have no issue with the use of the email addresses. I think the far more important issue here is the message sent under color of authority which authority likely was not authorized to Wafa at the time. > > Owen > > > > > Regards, > > Jordi > > @jordipalet > > > > > > > > ?El 5/7/19 10:16, "Alan Barrett" > escribi?: > > > > > > > >> On 3 Jul 2019, at 15:50, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss > wrote: > >> > >> I?m angrier about this as much as I think on it again. > >> > >> Can the board and the staff investigate this? > >> > >> Can all the people that got those emails confirm if they have provided voluntarily their emails or if they have participated in Afrinic lists, or if those emails are part of their Afrinic contacts, in order to understand if this personal data (emails are personal data), have been collected from Afrinic internal databases. > > > > There is no reasonable way for AFRINIC staff to investigate whether the recipients had agreed to receive the messages sent by Wafa Dahmani. There is also no reasonable way for staff to investigate whether email addresses were collected from the public WHOIS database. There is no non-public AFRINIC database that could have been used. > > > > Regards, > > Alan Barrett > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Community-Discuss mailing list > > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > > > > > > > > ********************************************** > > IPv4 is over > > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > > http://www.theipv6company.com > > The IPv6 Company > > > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Community-Discuss mailing list > > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matoa at vayu.net Fri Jul 12 06:38:53 2019 From: matoa at vayu.net (Mathieu Paonessa) Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 08:38:53 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: References: <59F8813D-32D2-4A91-997D-867579439B76@consulintel.es> <5ACD5EA8-9FCE-4EBC-896A-5488FB1D52DB@consulintel.es> <770CD949-AAEC-4B28-9A75-A2D047FA3AED@afrinic.net> Message-ID: Owen, On 12/07/2019 02:52, Owen DeLong wrote: [...] > > Since AfriNIC specifically doesn?t offer services in the EU, and > doesn?t monitor the behavior of anyone to the best of my knowledge, > the applicability is suspect at best. Once again, this is wrong. Afrinic offer services in R?union and Mayotte. Both territories are part of France and the EU. [...] > > > To the best of my knowledge, few, if any, of the people likely to be > in the AfriNIC whois database would be EU persons since AfriNIC > specifically requires the businesses they interact with to be in the > AfriNIC service region. Is there a country in Africa that joined the > EU without my noticing? R?union and Mayotte have been in the EU way before the birth of Afrinic... Mathieu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From walu.john at gmail.com Fri Jul 12 07:29:01 2019 From: walu.john at gmail.com (John Walu) Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 10:29:01 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: References: <59F8813D-32D2-4A91-997D-867579439B76@consulintel.es> <5ACD5EA8-9FCE-4EBC-896A-5488FB1D52DB@consulintel.es> <770CD949-AAEC-4B28-9A75-A2D047FA3AED@afrinic.net> Message-ID: @ Owen Interesting insights. True GDPR is EU person-specific rather than EU Citizen specific. U also rightly point out this is a broader term compared to the narrow citizen specific term I had imagined. Dont you then think that this expands the risk exposure rather than limit it? Either way, what of the AfriNIC data related to resource members who happen to be both African and European (and you and I know many of them ;-) Does their data held in AfriNIC databases then fall under GDPR? Anyway, the best thing for the Board to do is to carry out a GDPR Impact Assessment and share the report with the community about the risks or otherwise of GDPR in their processes/systems. rgds. walu On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 3:52 AM Owen DeLong wrote: > > > On Jul 10, 2019, at 00:51 , John Walu wrote: > > @ Owen > > GDPR territorial scope extends beyond Europe since its is EU citizen > specific rather than geo-specific. > > https://gdpr-info.eu/art-3-gdpr/ > > > Nope? It?s EU PERSON specific, not EU citizen. > > EU Person has a rather odd definition, but it is a superset of EU citizens > (or more accurately citizens of member nations). > > However? > > GDPR only pertains in so far as the data processing is related to: > > > > - the offering of goods or services, irrespective of whether a payment > of the data subject is required, to such data subjects in the Union; or > - the monitoring of their behaviour as far as their behaviour takes > place within the Union. > > > Since AfriNIC specifically doesn?t offer services in the EU, and doesn?t > monitor the behavior of anyone to the best of my knowledge, the > applicability is suspect at best. > > In other words, anyone (Data controller/processor) handling EU citizen > data is automatically subject to the GDPR in the event of a data breach - > irrespective of their geo-locality. > > > You also seem to have missed this part: > > > > 1. This Regulation applies to the processing of personal data by a > controller not established in the Union, but in a place where Member State > law applies by virtue of public international law. > > While the fact that Mauritius stupidly (IMHO) signed an agreement making > this paragraph problematic, many other nations in Africa have not and so > it?s again questionable whether the law can be applied to entities outside > of AfriNIC that are in countries that haven?t agreed to partake in this > particular brand of European overreach. (Which I admit is a trick they > unfortunately learned from the gestapo tactics of the US banking > regulators). > Note also that in Article 2 we have this: > > > > 1. This Regulation does not apply to the processing of personal data: > 1. in the course of an activity which falls outside the scope of > Union law; > > I?m pretty sure that AfriNIC?s issuing of IP addresses is not in any way > governed by EU law. As such, the activity in question is, by my reading, > exempt. > > Ofcourse the main issue will be if the affected EU citizen will actually > file a complaint in the EU Courts or not. The second issue is whether the > EU courts will find the data controller guilty and if the fined/penalized > entity will to pay up or ignore given their remoteness to EU centers of > power. (nb:Facebook and Google have so far been paying up ;-) > > > To the best of my knowledge, few, if any, of the people likely to be in > the AfriNIC whois database would be EU persons since AfriNIC specifically > requires the businesses they interact with to be in the AfriNIC service > region. Is there a country in Africa that joined the EU without my noticing? > > > Is AfriNIC bound by GDPR? > > The simple answer is - it depends. > Do Afrinic processes and systems at any one point collect, store or > process data that contains EU citizens? > > This is not the only criteria? Also it should be noted that the actual > term is ?EU persons? and not ?EU citizens?. > > Further, it only applies to EU Persons when conducting activities which > fall within the scope of EU law. (see Article 2 reference above). > > From Lexology.com (an article by Morgan Lewis & Bockius LLP): ( > https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=0dc9663d-ac3b-438e-adcd-1415a45f99ca > ) > > At its core, the GDPR enumerates rights of natural persons who are present > within the European Union (EU), whether or not their data is in fact in the > EU. The word ?citizen? does not appear in the language of the regulation, > which would indicate a reluctance to simply identify rights of EU citizens > as opposed to the rights of all people within the boundaries of the EU. > Practically speaking, the GDPR protects the rights of anyone within its > territorial reach while at the same time applying to any entity[2] > using > or accessing this personal data, no matter where the data exists. Trying to > decipher what this means can be confusing without a more thorough analysis > of the regulation and its accompanying commentary. > > ?? > > > If the answer is NO. Then they are not bound by GDPR. > If the answer is YES. Then they are potentially bound by GDPR to the > extent that if that data is abused/breached, then they potentially face > sanctions/penalties from EU courts. > > > If the answer is YES, then there are more questions that need to be asked? > > 1. Is the person actually in the EU at the time the personal data is > provided? > 2. Is the person otherwise classified as an ?EU Person?? > > If the answer to either is YES, then there are more questions that need to > be asked? If both are NO, then you?re done, no GDPR for you. > > 1. Is the activity in question subject to EU legal jurisdiction? > > If you can answer NO to this (and I can?t think of an activity where > AfriNIC would be collecting PII and answer yes), then again, you?re done, > GDPR doesn?t apply. > > Either way, Mauritius has one of the most comprehensive Data Protection > legislation on the continent > > and any data breach can actually be litigated locally (without the need for > GDPR) with penalties to AfriNIC (if for example it is determined that email > targets/addresses were harvested from Afrinic digital resources without > consent from the data subjects). > > > I?ll leave the discussion of Mauritian law to those people who may be > subject to it. I?m sure AfriNIC staff and applicable legal counsel can > adequately address this. > > Owen > > > walu. > > On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 8:04 AM Owen DeLong wrote: > >> >> >> > On Jul 5, 2019, at 14:13 , JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss < >> community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: >> > >> > Hi Alan, >> > >> > If the board can't investigate that, we may have a problem, because >> Afrinic has to comply with GDPR. >> >> Why? AfriNIC is not located in the EU and does not solicit business with >> EU persons. >> >> AfriNIC is not, by my reading, subject to the GDPR. >> >> Even if they were, AfriNIC did not violate GDPR here. Wafa might have, >> but I don?t think she is subject to GDPR, either. Last I looked, Tunisia >> was outside EU jurisdiction. >> >> >> > I don't know if those emails come from whois or something else, but >> some logs may tell. >> >> Why is this relevant? >> >> > I my opinion it will be nicer to get a response from Wafa, and I'm sure >> the community will be happy to forgive her. My intent is not to punish >> anyone, just to make sure that we find solutions to possible problems and >> mistakes and avoid repeating them. >> >> I have no issue with the use of the email addresses. I think the far more >> important issue here is the message sent under color of authority which >> authority likely was not authorized to Wafa at the time. >> >> Owen >> >> > >> > Regards, >> > Jordi >> > @jordipalet >> > >> > >> > >> > ?El 5/7/19 10:16, "Alan Barrett" escribi?: >> > >> > >> > >> >> On 3 Jul 2019, at 15:50, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss < >> community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote: >> >> >> >> I?m angrier about this as much as I think on it again. >> >> >> >> Can the board and the staff investigate this? >> >> >> >> Can all the people that got those emails confirm if they have provided >> voluntarily their emails or if they have participated in Afrinic lists, or >> if those emails are part of their Afrinic contacts, in order to understand >> if this personal data (emails are personal data), have been collected from >> Afrinic internal databases. >> > >> > There is no reasonable way for AFRINIC staff to investigate whether >> the recipients had agreed to receive the messages sent by Wafa Dahmani. >> There is also no reasonable way for staff to investigate whether email >> addresses were collected from the public WHOIS database. There is no >> non-public AFRINIC database that could have been used. >> > >> > Regards, >> > Alan Barrett >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Community-Discuss mailing list >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ********************************************** >> > IPv4 is over >> > Are you ready for the new Internet ? >> > http://www.theipv6company.com >> > The IPv6 Company >> > >> > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or >> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of >> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized >> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this >> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly >> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the >> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or >> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including >> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal >> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this >> communication and delete it. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Community-Discuss mailing list >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jordi.palet at consulintel.es Fri Jul 12 07:36:46 2019 From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ) Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 09:36:46 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: References: <59F8813D-32D2-4A91-997D-867579439B76@consulintel.es> <5ACD5EA8-9FCE-4EBC-896A-5488FB1D52DB@consulintel.es> <770CD949-AAEC-4B28-9A75-A2D047FA3AED@afrinic.net> Message-ID: Exactly, GDPR is about both citizens and residents. Anyone living in EU is also protected. If Afrinic host mailing list and databases with may contain EU-person data, it is subjected to GDPR. There is no doubt in that. After all, what it really matters is that Maurituis has an explicit agreement adopting an equivalent regulation to the GDPR. Regards, Jordi @jordipalet El 12/7/19 9:29, "John Walu" escribi?: @ Owen Interesting insights. True GDPR is EU person-specific rather than EU Citizen specific. U also rightly point out this is a broader term compared to the narrow citizen specific term I had imagined. Dont you then think that this expands the risk exposure rather than limit it? Either way, what of the AfriNIC data related to resource members who happen to be both African and European (and you and I know many of them ;-) Does their data held in AfriNIC databases then fall under GDPR? Anyway, the best thing for the Board to do is to carry out a GDPR Impact Assessment and share the report with the community about the risks or otherwise of GDPR in their processes/systems. rgds. walu On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 3:52 AM Owen DeLong wrote: On Jul 10, 2019, at 00:51 , John Walu wrote: @ Owen GDPR territorial scope extends beyond Europe since its is EU citizen specific rather than geo-specific. https://gdpr-info.eu/art-3-gdpr/ Nope? It?s EU PERSON specific, not EU citizen. EU Person has a rather odd definition, but it is a superset of EU citizens (or more accurately citizens of member nations). However? GDPR only pertains in so far as the data processing is related to: ? the offering of goods or services, irrespective of whether a payment of the data subject is required, to such data subjects in the Union; or ? the monitoring of their behaviour as far as their behaviour takes place within the Union. Since AfriNIC specifically doesn?t offer services in the EU, and doesn?t monitor the behavior of anyone to the best of my knowledge, the applicability is suspect at best. In other words, anyone (Data controller/processor) handling EU citizen data is automatically subject to the GDPR in the event of a data breach - irrespective of their geo-locality. You also seem to have missed this part: 1. This Regulation applies to the processing of personal data by a controller not established in the Union, but in a place where Member State law applies by virtue of public international law. While the fact that Mauritius stupidly (IMHO) signed an agreement making this paragraph problematic, many other nations in Africa have not and so it?s again questionable whether the law can be applied to entities outside of AfriNIC that are in countries that haven?t agreed to partake in this particular brand of European overreach. (Which I admit is a trick they unfortunately learned from the gestapo tactics of the US banking regulators). Note also that in Article 2 we have this: 1. This Regulation does not apply to the processing of personal data: 1. in the course of an activity which falls outside the scope of Union law; I?m pretty sure that AfriNIC?s issuing of IP addresses is not in any way governed by EU law. As such, the activity in question is, by my reading, exempt. Ofcourse the main issue will be if the affected EU citizen will actually file a complaint in the EU Courts or not. The second issue is whether the EU courts will find the data controller guilty and if the fined/penalized entity will to pay up or ignore given their remoteness to EU centers of power. (nb:Facebook and Google have so far been paying up ;-) To the best of my knowledge, few, if any, of the people likely to be in the AfriNIC whois database would be EU persons since AfriNIC specifically requires the businesses they interact with to be in the AfriNIC service region. Is there a country in Africa that joined the EU without my noticing? Is AfriNIC bound by GDPR? The simple answer is - it depends. Do Afrinic processes and systems at any one point collect, store or process data that contains EU citizens? This is not the only criteria? Also it should be noted that the actual term is ?EU persons? and not ?EU citizens?. Further, it only applies to EU Persons when conducting activities which fall within the scope of EU law. (see Article 2 reference above). >From Lexology.com (an article by Morgan Lewis & Bockius LLP): (https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=0dc9663d-ac3b-438e-adcd-1415a45f99ca) At its core, the GDPR enumerates rights of natural persons who are present within the European Union (EU), whether or not their data is in fact in the EU. The word ?citizen? does not appear in the language of the regulation, which would indicate a reluctance to simply identify rights of EU citizens as opposed to the rights of all people within the boundaries of the EU. Practically speaking, the GDPR protects the rights of anyone within its territorial reach while at the same time applying to any entity[2] using or accessing this personal data, no matter where the data exists. Trying to decipher what this means can be confusing without a more thorough analysis of the regulation and its accompanying commentary. ?? If the answer is NO. Then they are not bound by GDPR. If the answer is YES. Then they are potentially bound by GDPR to the extent that if that data is abused/breached, then they potentially face sanctions/penalties from EU courts. If the answer is YES, then there are more questions that need to be asked? 1. Is the person actually in the EU at the time the personal data is provided? 2. Is the person otherwise classified as an ?EU Person?? If the answer to either is YES, then there are more questions that need to be asked? If both are NO, then you?re done, no GDPR for you. 1. Is the activity in question subject to EU legal jurisdiction? If you can answer NO to this (and I can?t think of an activity where AfriNIC would be collecting PII and answer yes), then again, you?re done, GDPR doesn?t apply. Either way, Mauritius has one of the most comprehensive Data Protection legislation on the continent and any data breach can actually be litigated locally (without the need for GDPR) with penalties to AfriNIC (if for example it is determined that email targets/addresses were harvested from Afrinic digital resources without consent from the data subjects). I?ll leave the discussion of Mauritian law to those people who may be subject to it. I?m sure AfriNIC staff and applicable legal counsel can adequately address this. Owen walu. On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 8:04 AM Owen DeLong wrote: > On Jul 5, 2019, at 14:13 , JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote: > > Hi Alan, > > If the board can't investigate that, we may have a problem, because Afrinic has to comply with GDPR. Why? AfriNIC is not located in the EU and does not solicit business with EU persons. AfriNIC is not, by my reading, subject to the GDPR. Even if they were, AfriNIC did not violate GDPR here. Wafa might have, but I don?t think she is subject to GDPR, either. Last I looked, Tunisia was outside EU jurisdiction. > I don't know if those emails come from whois or something else, but some logs may tell. Why is this relevant? > I my opinion it will be nicer to get a response from Wafa, and I'm sure the community will be happy to forgive her. My intent is not to punish anyone, just to make sure that we find solutions to possible problems and mistakes and avoid repeating them. I have no issue with the use of the email addresses. I think the far more important issue here is the message sent under color of authority which authority likely was not authorized to Wafa at the time. Owen > > Regards, > Jordi > @jordipalet > > > > ?El 5/7/19 10:16, "Alan Barrett" escribi?: > > > >> On 3 Jul 2019, at 15:50, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote: >> >> I?m angrier about this as much as I think on it again. >> >> Can the board and the staff investigate this? >> >> Can all the people that got those emails confirm if they have provided voluntarily their emails or if they have participated in Afrinic lists, or if those emails are part of their Afrinic contacts, in order to understand if this personal data (emails are personal data), have been collected from Afrinic internal databases. > > There is no reasonable way for AFRINIC staff to investigate whether the recipients had agreed to receive the messages sent by Wafa Dahmani. There is also no reasonable way for staff to investigate whether email addresses were collected from the public WHOIS database. There is no non-public AFRINIC database that could have been used. > > Regards, > Alan Barrett > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > > > ********************************************** > IPv4 is over > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > http://www.theipv6company.com > The IPv6 Company > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.theipv6company.com The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sm+af at afrinic.net Fri Jul 12 09:46:56 2019 From: sm+af at afrinic.net (S. Moonesamy) Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 02:46:56 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Data protection In-Reply-To: References: <59F8813D-32D2-4A91-997D-867579439B76@consulintel.es> <5ACD5EA8-9FCE-4EBC-896A-5488FB1D52DB@consulintel.es> <770CD949-AAEC-4B28-9A75-A2D047FA3AED@afrinic.net> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20190712014256.0dbe0ac0@elandnews.com> Dear Owen, At 05:52 PM 11-07-2019, Owen DeLong wrote: >While the fact that Mauritius stupidly (IMHO) signed an agreement >making this paragraph problematic, many other nations in Africa have >not and so it's again questionable whether the law can be applied to >entities outside of AfriNIC that are in countries that haven't >agreed to partake in this particular brand of European overreach. >(Which I admit Please see Article 4(d) of the Registration Services Agreement [1]. In my opinion, the data protection law helps to provide protection for the data and information of Resource Members. It may be useful to legal entities which have to consider information technology as part of their corporate governance framework. Regards, S. Moonesamy 1. https://www.afrinic.net/membership/agreements From ish.sookun at lasentinelle.mu Fri Jul 12 17:24:03 2019 From: ish.sookun at lasentinelle.mu (Ish Sookun) Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 21:24:03 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Data protection In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20190710090525.0c92f638@elandnews.com> References: <59F8813D-32D2-4A91-997D-867579439B76@consulintel.es> <5ACD5EA8-9FCE-4EBC-896A-5488FB1D52DB@consulintel.es> <770CD949-AAEC-4B28-9A75-A2D047FA3AED@afrinic.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20190710090525.0c92f638@elandnews.com> Message-ID: <8d30e2d7-f86f-00cf-16c7-46494fd8b57d@lasentinelle.mu> Hi SM, On 7/10/19 8:25 PM, S. Moonesamy wrote: > There was a thread in 2018 about data protection [1].? There is ETS 223 > [2] which is a modernization of the convention about data protection. Thanks for sharing the archive link. The email mentions the following: "The Board believes that these regulations are not a barrier to publication of the WHOIS data [..]" and, "The Board further believes that the biggest changes required by AFRINIC are in documenting how personal data is used, and in informing people at the time data is collected." I do not recall that there was any specific mention about how the personal data of resource members is used, at the time of registration. This leads me to believe that the current practice is not compliant with the data protection requirements. Regards, Ish Sookun From owen at delong.com Fri Jul 12 18:18:58 2019 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 11:18:58 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Borad Elections In-Reply-To: References: <59F8813D-32D2-4A91-997D-867579439B76@consulintel.es> <5ACD5EA8-9FCE-4EBC-896A-5488FB1D52DB@consulintel.es> <770CD949-AAEC-4B28-9A75-A2D047FA3AED@afrinic.net> Message-ID: > On Jul 12, 2019, at 00:29 , John Walu wrote: > > @ Owen > > Interesting insights. > > True GDPR is EU person-specific rather than EU Citizen specific. U also rightly point out this is a broader term compared to the narrow citizen specific term I had imagined. Dont you then think that this expands the risk exposure rather than limit it? > > Either way, what of the AfriNIC data related to resource members who happen to be both African and European (and you and I know many of them ;-) Does their data held in AfriNIC databases then fall under GDPR? It depends on whether the issuance of internet number resources in Africa is an ?activity subject to the regulation of the union?. Outside of the two French territories previously pointed out, I tend to think not. > > Anyway, the best thing for the Board to do is to carry out a GDPR Impact Assessment and share the report with the community about the risks or otherwise of GDPR in their processes/systems. Yep. Owen > > rgds. > > walu > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 3:52 AM Owen DeLong > wrote: > > >> On Jul 10, 2019, at 00:51 , John Walu > wrote: >> >> @ Owen >> >> GDPR territorial scope extends beyond Europe since its is EU citizen specific rather than geo-specific. >> >> https://gdpr-info.eu/art-3-gdpr/ > > Nope? It?s EU PERSON specific, not EU citizen. > > EU Person has a rather odd definition, but it is a superset of EU citizens (or more accurately citizens of member nations). > > However? > > GDPR only pertains in so far as the data processing is related to: > > > the offering of goods or services, irrespective of whether a payment of the data subject is required, to such data subjects in the Union; or > the monitoring of their behaviour as far as their behaviour takes place within the Union. > > Since AfriNIC specifically doesn?t offer services in the EU, and doesn?t monitor the behavior of anyone to the best of my knowledge, the applicability is suspect at best. > >> In other words, anyone (Data controller/processor) handling EU citizen data is automatically subject to the GDPR in the event of a data breach - irrespective of their geo-locality. > > You also seem to have missed this part: > > > This Regulation applies to the processing of personal data by a controller not established in the Union, but in a place where Member State law applies by virtue of public international law. > While the fact that Mauritius stupidly (IMHO) signed an agreement making this paragraph problematic, many other nations in Africa have not and so it?s again questionable whether the law can be applied to entities outside of AfriNIC that are in countries that haven?t agreed to partake in this particular brand of European overreach. (Which I admit is a trick they unfortunately learned from the gestapo tactics of the US banking regulators). > Note also that in Article 2 we have this: > > > This Regulation does not apply to the processing of personal data: > in the course of an activity which falls outside the scope of Union law; > I?m pretty sure that AfriNIC?s issuing of IP addresses is not in any way governed by EU law. As such, the activity in question is, by my reading, exempt. > >> Ofcourse the main issue will be if the affected EU citizen will actually file a complaint in the EU Courts or not. The second issue is whether the EU courts will find the data controller guilty and if the fined/penalized entity will to pay up or ignore given their remoteness to EU centers of power. (nb:Facebook and Google have so far been paying up ;-) > > To the best of my knowledge, few, if any, of the people likely to be in the AfriNIC whois database would be EU persons since AfriNIC specifically requires the businesses they interact with to be in the AfriNIC service region. Is there a country in Africa that joined the EU without my noticing? > >> >> Is AfriNIC bound by GDPR? >> >> The simple answer is - it depends. >> Do Afrinic processes and systems at any one point collect, store or process data that contains EU citizens? >> > This is not the only criteria? Also it should be noted that the actual term is ?EU persons? and not ?EU citizens?. > > Further, it only applies to EU Persons when conducting activities which fall within the scope of EU law. (see Article 2 reference above). > > From Lexology.com (an article by Morgan Lewis & Bockius LLP): (https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=0dc9663d-ac3b-438e-adcd-1415a45f99ca ) > > At its core, the GDPR enumerates rights of natural persons who are present within the European Union (EU), whether or not their data is in fact in the EU. The word ?citizen? does not appear in the language of the regulation, which would indicate a reluctance to simply identify rights of EU citizens as opposed to the rights of all people within the boundaries of the EU. Practically speaking, the GDPR protects the rights of anyone within its territorial reach while at the same time applying to any entity[2] using or accessing this personal data, no matter where the data exists. Trying to decipher what this means can be confusing without a more thorough analysis of the regulation and its accompanying commentary. > > ?? > > >> If the answer is NO. Then they are not bound by GDPR. >> If the answer is YES. Then they are potentially bound by GDPR to the extent that if that data is abused/breached, then they potentially face sanctions/penalties from EU courts. > > If the answer is YES, then there are more questions that need to be asked? > > 1. Is the person actually in the EU at the time the personal data is provided? > 2. Is the person otherwise classified as an ?EU Person?? > > If the answer to either is YES, then there are more questions that need to be asked? If both are NO, then you?re done, no GDPR for you. > > 1. Is the activity in question subject to EU legal jurisdiction? > > If you can answer NO to this (and I can?t think of an activity where AfriNIC would be collecting PII and answer yes), then again, you?re done, GDPR doesn?t apply. > >> Either way, Mauritius has one of the most comprehensive Data Protection legislation on the continent and any data breach can actually be litigated locally (without the need for GDPR) with penalties to AfriNIC (if for example it is determined that email targets/addresses were harvested from Afrinic digital resources without consent from the data subjects). > > I?ll leave the discussion of Mauritian law to those people who may be subject to it. I?m sure AfriNIC staff and applicable legal counsel can adequately address this. > > Owen > >> >> walu. >> >> On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 8:04 AM Owen DeLong > wrote: >> >> >> > On Jul 5, 2019, at 14:13 , JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss > wrote: >> > >> > Hi Alan, >> > >> > If the board can't investigate that, we may have a problem, because Afrinic has to comply with GDPR. >> >> Why? AfriNIC is not located in the EU and does not solicit business with EU persons. >> >> AfriNIC is not, by my reading, subject to the GDPR. >> >> Even if they were, AfriNIC did not violate GDPR here. Wafa might have, but I don?t think she is subject to GDPR, either. Last I looked, Tunisia was outside EU jurisdiction. >> >> >> > I don't know if those emails come from whois or something else, but some logs may tell. >> >> Why is this relevant? >> >> > I my opinion it will be nicer to get a response from Wafa, and I'm sure the community will be happy to forgive her. My intent is not to punish anyone, just to make sure that we find solutions to possible problems and mistakes and avoid repeating them. >> >> I have no issue with the use of the email addresses. I think the far more important issue here is the message sent under color of authority which authority likely was not authorized to Wafa at the time. >> >> Owen >> >> > >> > Regards, >> > Jordi >> > @jordipalet >> > >> > >> > >> > ?El 5/7/19 10:16, "Alan Barrett" > escribi?: >> > >> > >> > >> >> On 3 Jul 2019, at 15:50, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss > wrote: >> >> >> >> I?m angrier about this as much as I think on it again. >> >> >> >> Can the board and the staff investigate this? >> >> >> >> Can all the people that got those emails confirm if they have provided voluntarily their emails or if they have participated in Afrinic lists, or if those emails are part of their Afrinic contacts, in order to understand if this personal data (emails are personal data), have been collected from Afrinic internal databases. >> > >> > There is no reasonable way for AFRINIC staff to investigate whether the recipients had agreed to receive the messages sent by Wafa Dahmani. There is also no reasonable way for staff to investigate whether email addresses were collected from the public WHOIS database. There is no non-public AFRINIC database that could have been used. >> > >> > Regards, >> > Alan Barrett >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Community-Discuss mailing list >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > ********************************************** >> > IPv4 is over >> > Are you ready for the new Internet ? >> > http://www.theipv6company.com >> > The IPv6 Company >> > >> > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Community-Discuss mailing list >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sm+af at afrinic.net Fri Jul 12 18:40:44 2019 From: sm+af at afrinic.net (S. Moonesamy) Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 11:40:44 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Data protection In-Reply-To: <8d30e2d7-f86f-00cf-16c7-46494fd8b57d@lasentinelle.mu> References: <59F8813D-32D2-4A91-997D-867579439B76@consulintel.es> <5ACD5EA8-9FCE-4EBC-896A-5488FB1D52DB@consulintel.es> <770CD949-AAEC-4B28-9A75-A2D047FA3AED@afrinic.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20190710090525.0c92f638@elandnews.com> <8d30e2d7-f86f-00cf-16c7-46494fd8b57d@lasentinelle.mu> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20190712103546.0c94f200@elandnews.com> Dear Ish, At 10:24 AM 12-07-2019, Ish Sookun wrote: >The email mentions the following: > > "The Board believes that these regulations are not a barrier to > publication of the WHOIS data [..]" > >and, > > "The Board further believes that the biggest changes required by > AFRINIC are in documenting how personal data is used, and in > informing people at the time data is collected." > >I do not recall that there was any specific mention about how the >personal data of resource members is used, at the time of registration. >This leads me to believe that the current practice is not compliant with >the data protection requirements. The term "Resource Member" refers to the legal entity which meets the requirements for number resources. The personal data aspect depends on how the legal entity manages that internally. The Member Services department may be able to provide information what is collected and what will be included in WHOIS. There are cases for which it may be useful to provide a point of contact. An alternative to address regulatory requirements could be to provide the contact information of a role account. Regards, S. Moonesamy From ish.sookun at lasentinelle.mu Sun Jul 14 07:04:25 2019 From: ish.sookun at lasentinelle.mu (Ish Sookun) Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2019 11:04:25 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Data protection In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20190712103546.0c94f200@elandnews.com> References: <59F8813D-32D2-4A91-997D-867579439B76@consulintel.es> <5ACD5EA8-9FCE-4EBC-896A-5488FB1D52DB@consulintel.es> <770CD949-AAEC-4B28-9A75-A2D047FA3AED@afrinic.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20190710090525.0c92f638@elandnews.com> <8d30e2d7-f86f-00cf-16c7-46494fd8b57d@lasentinelle.mu> <6.2.5.6.2.20190712103546.0c94f200@elandnews.com> Message-ID: <73b19f38-2f55-be3f-fa49-c65dcecc274b@lasentinelle.mu> Hi SM, On 7/12/19 10:40 PM, S. Moonesamy wrote: > There are cases for which it may be useful to provide a point of > contact.? An alternative to address regulatory requirements could be to > provide the contact information of a role account. Yes, this alternative complies with the DPA. The role object does not provide information on a natural person but would satisfy the requirement of a point of contact. Regards, Ish Sookun From subs at retornam.com Sat Jul 20 19:01:47 2019 From: subs at retornam.com (raymond) Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2019 12:01:47 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Transfer Log format Message-ID: Hi, Would it be possible for AFRINIC to adopt the transfer log format used by APNIC? If so, who do I need to contact to make this happen? If not, can the fields in the JSON format be documented for reference? APNIC has a well documented policy[1] on the CSV logs they produce daily at [2] [1] https://www.apnic.net/about-apnic/corporate-documents/documents/policy-development/transfer-log-format/ [2] https://ftp.apnic.net/transfers/apnic/ APNICs format stands out as it is easy to parse the data compared to the various JSON formats used by other registries(including AFRINICs) RIPENCC https://ftp.ripe.net/pub/stats/ripencc/transfers/ JSON ARIN https://ftp.arin.net/pub/stats/arin/transfers/ JSON LACNIC https://ftp.lacnic.net/pub/stats/lacnic/transfers/ JSON AFRINIC http://ftp.afrinic.net/stats/afrinic/transfers/ JSON /re -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dndannang at gmail.com Sat Jul 20 23:54:13 2019 From: dndannang at gmail.com (DANIEL NANGHAKA) Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 02:54:13 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Transfer Log format In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Raymond, This is interesting, it has to go through a policy proposal. Policy proposal are discussed at AFRINIC meetings. After discussion then it is passed for implementation. Daniel K. Nanghaka On Saturday, July 20, 2019, raymond wrote: > Hi, > Would it be possible for AFRINIC to adopt the transfer log format used by > APNIC? > If so, who do I need to contact to make this happen? If not, can the > fields in the JSON > format be documented for reference? > > APNIC has a well documented policy[1] on the CSV logs they produce daily > at [2] > > [1] https://www.apnic.net/about-apnic/corporate- > documents/documents/policy-development/transfer-log-format/ > [2] https://ftp.apnic.net/transfers/apnic/ > > > APNICs format stands out as it is easy to parse the data > compared to the various JSON formats used by other registries(including > AFRINICs) > > RIPENCC https://ftp.ripe.net/pub/stats/ripencc/transfers/ JSON > ARIN https://ftp.arin.net/pub/stats/arin/transfers/ JSON > LACNIC https://ftp.lacnic.net/pub/stats/lacnic/transfers/ JSON > AFRINIC http://ftp.afrinic.net/stats/afrinic/transfers/ JSON > > > /re > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Sun Jul 21 00:50:49 2019 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2019 17:50:49 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Transfer Log format In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <44ED53B6-E4C2-44D4-AEAC-A2441CF99B15@delong.com> This is an operational matter for staff? Why would it need to go through the policy process? The policy in the CPM does not and should not specify the reporting format. I do find it interesting, however, that he considers JSON difficult to parse vs. CSV. I find the opposite. There are many libraries available for parsing both formats, but the level of consistency in the definition and syntax specification for JSON, especially around quoting and handling of strings containing quote and delimiter characters plus the hierarchical dictionary nature of JSON are, IMHO, a vastly superior format that is easier to parse while providing much greater flexibility in the type of content delivered. Owen > On Jul 20, 2019, at 16:54 , DANIEL NANGHAKA wrote: > > Hi Raymond, > This is interesting, it has to go through a policy proposal. Policy proposal are discussed at AFRINIC meetings. > > After discussion then it is passed for implementation. > > Daniel K. Nanghaka > > On Saturday, July 20, 2019, raymond > wrote: > Hi, > Would it be possible for AFRINIC to adopt the transfer log format used by APNIC? > If so, who do I need to contact to make this happen? If not, can the fields in the JSON > format be documented for reference? > > APNIC has a well documented policy[1] on the CSV logs they produce daily at [2] > > [1] https://www.apnic.net/about-apnic/corporate-documents/documents/policy-development/transfer-log-format/ > [2] https://ftp.apnic.net/transfers/apnic/ > > APNICs format stands out as it is easy to parse the data > compared to the various JSON formats used by other registries(including AFRINICs) > > RIPENCC https://ftp.ripe.net/pub/stats/ripencc/transfers/ JSON > ARIN https://ftp.arin.net/pub/stats/arin/transfers/ JSON > LACNIC https://ftp.lacnic.net/pub/stats/lacnic/transfers/ JSON > AFRINIC http://ftp.afrinic.net/stats/afrinic/transfers/ JSON > > > /re > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From subs at retornam.com Sun Jul 21 01:48:26 2019 From: subs at retornam.com (raymond) Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2019 18:48:26 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Transfer Log format In-Reply-To: <44ED53B6-E4C2-44D4-AEAC-A2441CF99B15@delong.com> References: <44ED53B6-E4C2-44D4-AEAC-A2441CF99B15@delong.com> Message-ID: The problem isn't that JSON is hard to parse, my problem is that fields in the JSON returned are not documented and that different registries return different JSON formatted fields. Also because JSON also doesn't allow inline comments, I personally prefer a well commented CSV file over an un-documented JSON one. /re On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 5:52 PM Owen DeLong wrote: > > This is an operational matter for staff? Why would it need to go through the policy process? > > The policy in the CPM does not and should not specify the reporting format. > > I do find it interesting, however, that he considers JSON difficult to parse vs. CSV. > > I find the opposite. There are many libraries available for parsing both formats, but the level of > consistency in the definition and syntax specification for JSON, especially around quoting and > handling of strings containing quote and delimiter characters plus the hierarchical dictionary > nature of JSON are, IMHO, a vastly superior format that is easier to parse while providing much > greater flexibility in the type of content delivered. > > Owen > > > On Jul 20, 2019, at 16:54 , DANIEL NANGHAKA wrote: > > Hi Raymond, > This is interesting, it has to go through a policy proposal. Policy proposal are discussed at AFRINIC meetings. > > After discussion then it is passed for implementation. > > Daniel K. Nanghaka > > On Saturday, July 20, 2019, raymond wrote: >> >> Hi, >> Would it be possible for AFRINIC to adopt the transfer log format used by APNIC? >> If so, who do I need to contact to make this happen? If not, can the fields in the JSON >> format be documented for reference? >> >> APNIC has a well documented policy[1] on the CSV logs they produce daily at [2] >> >> [1] https://www.apnic.net/about-apnic/corporate-documents/documents/policy-development/transfer-log-format/ >> [2] https://ftp.apnic.net/transfers/apnic/ >> >> APNICs format stands out as it is easy to parse the data >> compared to the various JSON formats used by other registries(including AFRINICs) >> >> RIPENCC https://ftp.ripe.net/pub/stats/ripencc/transfers/ JSON >> ARIN https://ftp.arin.net/pub/stats/arin/transfers/ JSON >> LACNIC https://ftp.lacnic.net/pub/stats/lacnic/transfers/ JSON >> AFRINIC http://ftp.afrinic.net/stats/afrinic/transfers/ JSON >> >> >> /re >> > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > From sander at steffann.nl Sun Jul 21 12:02:56 2019 From: sander at steffann.nl (Sander Steffann) Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 14:02:56 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Transfer Log format In-Reply-To: References: <44ED53B6-E4C2-44D4-AEAC-A2441CF99B15@delong.com> Message-ID: Hi, > The problem isn't that JSON is hard to parse, my problem is that > fields in the JSON returned are not > documented and that different registries return different JSON > formatted fields. > > Also because JSON also doesn't allow inline comments, I personally > prefer a well commented CSV file over an un-documented JSON one. So, YAML then ;) Cheers Sander -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 488 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP URL: From sfolayan at gmail.com Sun Jul 21 12:23:49 2019 From: sfolayan at gmail.com (Sunday Folayan) Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 13:23:49 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Transfer Log format In-Reply-To: References: <44ED53B6-E4C2-44D4-AEAC-A2441CF99B15@delong.com> Message-ID: I am sure the staff will be glad to give you their data dictionary. Publishing in JSON format should not lose anything that will have been published in CSV format. If the comments are not rich enough for you, You can start a collaborative project to fix this, and put it back into the community. Nothing also stops you from pushing for a common RIR JSON specification, with your findings and use case. There may be others out there who may also need it. Sunday On Sun, Jul 21, 2019, 02:51 raymond wrote: > The problem isn't that JSON is hard to parse, my problem is that > fields in the JSON returned are not > documented and that different registries return different JSON > formatted fields. > > Also because JSON also doesn't allow inline comments, I personally > prefer a well commented CSV file over > an un-documented JSON one. > > /re > > On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 5:52 PM Owen DeLong wrote: > > > > This is an operational matter for staff? Why would it need to go through > the policy process? > > > > The policy in the CPM does not and should not specify the reporting > format. > > > > I do find it interesting, however, that he considers JSON difficult to > parse vs. CSV. > > > > I find the opposite. There are many libraries available for parsing both > formats, but the level of > > consistency in the definition and syntax specification for JSON, > especially around quoting and > > handling of strings containing quote and delimiter characters plus the > hierarchical dictionary > > nature of JSON are, IMHO, a vastly superior format that is easier to > parse while providing much > > greater flexibility in the type of content delivered. > > > > Owen > > > > > > On Jul 20, 2019, at 16:54 , DANIEL NANGHAKA wrote: > > > > Hi Raymond, > > This is interesting, it has to go through a policy proposal. Policy > proposal are discussed at AFRINIC meetings. > > > > After discussion then it is passed for implementation. > > > > Daniel K. Nanghaka > > > > On Saturday, July 20, 2019, raymond wrote: > >> > >> Hi, > >> Would it be possible for AFRINIC to adopt the transfer log format used > by APNIC? > >> If so, who do I need to contact to make this happen? If not, can the > fields in the JSON > >> format be documented for reference? > >> > >> APNIC has a well documented policy[1] on the CSV logs they produce > daily at [2] > >> > >> [1] > https://www.apnic.net/about-apnic/corporate-documents/documents/policy-development/transfer-log-format/ > >> [2] https://ftp.apnic.net/transfers/apnic/ > >> > >> APNICs format stands out as it is easy to parse the data > >> compared to the various JSON formats used by other registries(including > AFRINICs) > >> > >> RIPENCC https://ftp.ripe.net/pub/stats/ripencc/transfers/ JSON > >> ARIN https://ftp.arin.net/pub/stats/arin/transfers/ JSON > >> LACNIC https://ftp.lacnic.net/pub/stats/lacnic/transfers/ JSON > >> AFRINIC http://ftp.afrinic.net/stats/afrinic/transfers/ JSON > >> > >> > >> /re > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Community-Discuss mailing list > > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daniel at techdad.xyz Mon Jul 22 12:21:49 2019 From: daniel at techdad.xyz (Daniel Shaw) Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 14:21:49 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Transfer Log format In-Reply-To: References: <44ED53B6-E4C2-44D4-AEAC-A2441CF99B15@delong.com> Message-ID: Hello all, @Sunday, Just to be clear: the OP, Raymond was asking if it could be CSV. It is already in JSON format. Not the other way around. @Raymond, The common JSON format used by all 5 RIRs is documented here: https://github.com/nro-ecg/transfer_log In particular the comment schema is this: https://github.com/nro-ecg/transfer_log/blob/master/transfer_log.jcr (the jcr language for describing json is explained here: http://codalogic.github.io/jcr/) And an example single entry to look at is this: https://github.com/nro-ecg/transfer_log/blob/master/transfer_example.json The full exlanation, including all the above links is found on the ARIN site: https://www.apnic.net/about-apnic/corporate-documents/documents/policy-development/transfer-log-format/ You'll find that all RIRs use this format, and in addition APNIC also publish the CSV format you like. My suggestion is that if you want to request AFRINIC staff to evaluate the viability of doinf the same, don't just throw it out on the community list. Rather reach out to staff directly. You should find details on https://afrinic.net/, under "contact us". Definitely raise it on the list as you have done to get input and comments from the community, as you also have done. But directing requests for staff at staff is usually more effective that relying on it being picked up on a large public list. Going against my own advice above, staff, if you *are* reading this I'd suggest that before worry about any other formats you a) include the .jcr definition and/or a readme file in the http://ftp.afrinic.net/pub/stats/afrinic/transfers/ folder, so that this is self-documented like the extended delegated stats file is. and b) add a page in the web site similar to ARIN's about this file format. Cheers! - Daniel On Sun, 21 Jul 2019 at 14:27, Sunday Folayan wrote: > > I am sure the staff will be glad to give you their data dictionary. > > Publishing in JSON format should not lose anything that will have been published in CSV format. > > If the comments are not rich enough for you, You can start a collaborative project to fix this, and put it back into the community. > > Nothing also stops you from pushing for a common RIR JSON specification, with your findings and use case. There may be others out there who may also need it. > > Sunday > > On Sun, Jul 21, 2019, 02:51 raymond wrote: >> >> The problem isn't that JSON is hard to parse, my problem is that >> fields in the JSON returned are not >> documented and that different registries return different JSON >> formatted fields. >> >> Also because JSON also doesn't allow inline comments, I personally >> prefer a well commented CSV file over >> an un-documented JSON one. >> >> /re >> >> On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 5:52 PM Owen DeLong wrote: >> > >> > This is an operational matter for staff? Why would it need to go through the policy process? >> > >> > The policy in the CPM does not and should not specify the reporting format. >> > >> > I do find it interesting, however, that he considers JSON difficult to parse vs. CSV. >> > >> > I find the opposite. There are many libraries available for parsing both formats, but the level of >> > consistency in the definition and syntax specification for JSON, especially around quoting and >> > handling of strings containing quote and delimiter characters plus the hierarchical dictionary >> > nature of JSON are, IMHO, a vastly superior format that is easier to parse while providing much >> > greater flexibility in the type of content delivered. >> > >> > Owen >> > >> > >> > On Jul 20, 2019, at 16:54 , DANIEL NANGHAKA wrote: >> > >> > Hi Raymond, >> > This is interesting, it has to go through a policy proposal. Policy proposal are discussed at AFRINIC meetings. >> > >> > After discussion then it is passed for implementation. >> > >> > Daniel K. Nanghaka >> > >> > On Saturday, July 20, 2019, raymond wrote: >> >> >> >> Hi, >> >> Would it be possible for AFRINIC to adopt the transfer log format used by APNIC? >> >> If so, who do I need to contact to make this happen? If not, can the fields in the JSON >> >> format be documented for reference? >> >> >> >> APNIC has a well documented policy[1] on the CSV logs they produce daily at [2] >> >> >> >> [1] https://www.apnic.net/about-apnic/corporate-documents/documents/policy-development/transfer-log-format/ >> >> [2] https://ftp.apnic.net/transfers/apnic/ >> >> >> >> APNICs format stands out as it is easy to parse the data >> >> compared to the various JSON formats used by other registries(including AFRINICs) >> >> >> >> RIPENCC https://ftp.ripe.net/pub/stats/ripencc/transfers/ JSON >> >> ARIN https://ftp.arin.net/pub/stats/arin/transfers/ JSON >> >> LACNIC https://ftp.lacnic.net/pub/stats/lacnic/transfers/ JSON >> >> AFRINIC http://ftp.afrinic.net/stats/afrinic/transfers/ JSON >> >> >> >> >> >> /re >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Community-Discuss mailing list >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss From sfolayan at gmail.com Mon Jul 22 13:31:53 2019 From: sfolayan at gmail.com (Sunday Folayan) Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 14:31:53 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Transfer Log format In-Reply-To: References: <44ED53B6-E4C2-44D4-AEAC-A2441CF99B15@delong.com> Message-ID: Daniel, I understood that. Thanks for all the additional links. Sunday. On Mon, Jul 22, 2019, 13:24 Daniel Shaw wrote: > Hello all, > > @Sunday, > > Just to be clear: the OP, Raymond was asking if it could be CSV. It is > already in JSON format. Not the other way around. > > @Raymond, > > The common JSON format used by all 5 RIRs is documented here: > https://github.com/nro-ecg/transfer_log > > In particular the comment schema is this: > https://github.com/nro-ecg/transfer_log/blob/master/transfer_log.jcr > > (the jcr language for describing json is explained here: > http://codalogic.github.io/jcr/) > > And an example single entry to look at is this: > https://github.com/nro-ecg/transfer_log/blob/master/transfer_example.json > > The full exlanation, including all the above links is found on the ARIN > site: > > https://www.apnic.net/about-apnic/corporate-documents/documents/policy-development/transfer-log-format/ > > You'll find that all RIRs use this format, and in addition APNIC also > publish the CSV format you like. My suggestion is that if you want to > request AFRINIC staff to evaluate the viability of doinf the same, > don't just throw it out on the community list. Rather reach out to > staff directly. You should find details on https://afrinic.net/, under > "contact us". Definitely raise it on the list as you have done to get > input and comments from the community, as you also have done. But > directing requests for staff at staff is usually more effective that > relying on it being picked up on a large public list. > > Going against my own advice above, staff, if you *are* reading this > I'd suggest that before worry about any other formats you a) include > the .jcr definition and/or a readme file in the > http://ftp.afrinic.net/pub/stats/afrinic/transfers/ folder, so that > this is self-documented like the extended delegated stats file is. and > b) add a page in the web site similar to ARIN's about this file > format. > > Cheers! > - Daniel > > > > On Sun, 21 Jul 2019 at 14:27, Sunday Folayan wrote: > > > > I am sure the staff will be glad to give you their data dictionary. > > > > Publishing in JSON format should not lose anything that will have been > published in CSV format. > > > > If the comments are not rich enough for you, You can start a > collaborative project to fix this, and put it back into the community. > > > > Nothing also stops you from pushing for a common RIR JSON specification, > with your findings and use case. There may be others out there who may also > need it. > > > > Sunday > > > > On Sun, Jul 21, 2019, 02:51 raymond wrote: > >> > >> The problem isn't that JSON is hard to parse, my problem is that > >> fields in the JSON returned are not > >> documented and that different registries return different JSON > >> formatted fields. > >> > >> Also because JSON also doesn't allow inline comments, I personally > >> prefer a well commented CSV file over > >> an un-documented JSON one. > >> > >> /re > >> > >> On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 5:52 PM Owen DeLong wrote: > >> > > >> > This is an operational matter for staff? Why would it need to go > through the policy process? > >> > > >> > The policy in the CPM does not and should not specify the reporting > format. > >> > > >> > I do find it interesting, however, that he considers JSON difficult > to parse vs. CSV. > >> > > >> > I find the opposite. There are many libraries available for parsing > both formats, but the level of > >> > consistency in the definition and syntax specification for JSON, > especially around quoting and > >> > handling of strings containing quote and delimiter characters plus > the hierarchical dictionary > >> > nature of JSON are, IMHO, a vastly superior format that is easier to > parse while providing much > >> > greater flexibility in the type of content delivered. > >> > > >> > Owen > >> > > >> > > >> > On Jul 20, 2019, at 16:54 , DANIEL NANGHAKA > wrote: > >> > > >> > Hi Raymond, > >> > This is interesting, it has to go through a policy proposal. Policy > proposal are discussed at AFRINIC meetings. > >> > > >> > After discussion then it is passed for implementation. > >> > > >> > Daniel K. Nanghaka > >> > > >> > On Saturday, July 20, 2019, raymond wrote: > >> >> > >> >> Hi, > >> >> Would it be possible for AFRINIC to adopt the transfer log format > used by APNIC? > >> >> If so, who do I need to contact to make this happen? If not, can the > fields in the JSON > >> >> format be documented for reference? > >> >> > >> >> APNIC has a well documented policy[1] on the CSV logs they produce > daily at [2] > >> >> > >> >> [1] > https://www.apnic.net/about-apnic/corporate-documents/documents/policy-development/transfer-log-format/ > >> >> [2] https://ftp.apnic.net/transfers/apnic/ > >> >> > >> >> APNICs format stands out as it is easy to parse the data > >> >> compared to the various JSON formats used by other > registries(including AFRINICs) > >> >> > >> >> RIPENCC https://ftp.ripe.net/pub/stats/ripencc/transfers/ JSON > >> >> ARIN https://ftp.arin.net/pub/stats/arin/transfers/ JSON > >> >> LACNIC https://ftp.lacnic.net/pub/stats/lacnic/transfers/ JSON > >> >> AFRINIC http://ftp.afrinic.net/stats/afrinic/transfers/ JSON > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> /re > >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Community-Discuss mailing list > >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > >> > > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Community-Discuss mailing list > >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Community-Discuss mailing list > > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Tue Jul 23 05:03:57 2019 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 22:03:57 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Transfer Log format In-Reply-To: References: <44ED53B6-E4C2-44D4-AEAC-A2441CF99B15@delong.com> Message-ID: <2067DF8E-B9C4-4AE1-88A6-86CDEC688253@delong.com> Interesting? In the $version dictionary, there are (among others) the following two attributes defined: ?UTC_offset? ? UTC Offset of the producer ?production_date? ? a datetime value when the file was produced. What is not clear (at least to me) is whether the datetime values (there are two other attributes describing the start and end time covered in the file) are expressed in localtime per the given UTC_offset or in some form of epoch reference (e.g. a posix timestamp is seconds since the epoch which is currently widely defined as midnight UTC 01 January 1970). It?s also not clear in the case of local time in the field whether that is intended to be current local time at production (in which case, one would expect a DST flag attribute as well) or whether it is expected to always be local standard time regardless of the application (or not) of the DST silliness in the locale in question. Otherwise, it seems quite concise, readable, and useful as a definition allowing virtually anyone to easily parse the resulting JSON. Owen > On Jul 22, 2019, at 05:21 , Daniel Shaw wrote: > > Hello all, > > @Sunday, > > Just to be clear: the OP, Raymond was asking if it could be CSV. It is > already in JSON format. Not the other way around. > > @Raymond, > > The common JSON format used by all 5 RIRs is documented here: > https://github.com/nro-ecg/transfer_log > > In particular the comment schema is this: > https://github.com/nro-ecg/transfer_log/blob/master/transfer_log.jcr > > (the jcr language for describing json is explained here: > http://codalogic.github.io/jcr/) > > And an example single entry to look at is this: > https://github.com/nro-ecg/transfer_log/blob/master/transfer_example.json > > The full exlanation, including all the above links is found on the ARIN site: > https://www.apnic.net/about-apnic/corporate-documents/documents/policy-development/transfer-log-format/ > > You'll find that all RIRs use this format, and in addition APNIC also > publish the CSV format you like. My suggestion is that if you want to > request AFRINIC staff to evaluate the viability of doinf the same, > don't just throw it out on the community list. Rather reach out to > staff directly. You should find details on https://afrinic.net/, under > "contact us". Definitely raise it on the list as you have done to get > input and comments from the community, as you also have done. But > directing requests for staff at staff is usually more effective that > relying on it being picked up on a large public list. > > Going against my own advice above, staff, if you *are* reading this > I'd suggest that before worry about any other formats you a) include > the .jcr definition and/or a readme file in the > http://ftp.afrinic.net/pub/stats/afrinic/transfers/ folder, so that > this is self-documented like the extended delegated stats file is. and > b) add a page in the web site similar to ARIN's about this file > format. > > Cheers! > - Daniel > > > > On Sun, 21 Jul 2019 at 14:27, Sunday Folayan wrote: >> >> I am sure the staff will be glad to give you their data dictionary. >> >> Publishing in JSON format should not lose anything that will have been published in CSV format. >> >> If the comments are not rich enough for you, You can start a collaborative project to fix this, and put it back into the community. >> >> Nothing also stops you from pushing for a common RIR JSON specification, with your findings and use case. There may be others out there who may also need it. >> >> Sunday >> >> On Sun, Jul 21, 2019, 02:51 raymond wrote: >>> >>> The problem isn't that JSON is hard to parse, my problem is that >>> fields in the JSON returned are not >>> documented and that different registries return different JSON >>> formatted fields. >>> >>> Also because JSON also doesn't allow inline comments, I personally >>> prefer a well commented CSV file over >>> an un-documented JSON one. >>> >>> /re >>> >>> On Sat, Jul 20, 2019 at 5:52 PM Owen DeLong wrote: >>>> >>>> This is an operational matter for staff? Why would it need to go through the policy process? >>>> >>>> The policy in the CPM does not and should not specify the reporting format. >>>> >>>> I do find it interesting, however, that he considers JSON difficult to parse vs. CSV. >>>> >>>> I find the opposite. There are many libraries available for parsing both formats, but the level of >>>> consistency in the definition and syntax specification for JSON, especially around quoting and >>>> handling of strings containing quote and delimiter characters plus the hierarchical dictionary >>>> nature of JSON are, IMHO, a vastly superior format that is easier to parse while providing much >>>> greater flexibility in the type of content delivered. >>>> >>>> Owen >>>> >>>> >>>> On Jul 20, 2019, at 16:54 , DANIEL NANGHAKA wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Raymond, >>>> This is interesting, it has to go through a policy proposal. Policy proposal are discussed at AFRINIC meetings. >>>> >>>> After discussion then it is passed for implementation. >>>> >>>> Daniel K. Nanghaka >>>> >>>> On Saturday, July 20, 2019, raymond wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> Would it be possible for AFRINIC to adopt the transfer log format used by APNIC? >>>>> If so, who do I need to contact to make this happen? If not, can the fields in the JSON >>>>> format be documented for reference? >>>>> >>>>> APNIC has a well documented policy[1] on the CSV logs they produce daily at [2] >>>>> >>>>> [1] https://www.apnic.net/about-apnic/corporate-documents/documents/policy-development/transfer-log-format/ >>>>> [2] https://ftp.apnic.net/transfers/apnic/ >>>>> >>>>> APNICs format stands out as it is easy to parse the data >>>>> compared to the various JSON formats used by other registries(including AFRINICs) >>>>> >>>>> RIPENCC https://ftp.ripe.net/pub/stats/ripencc/transfers/ JSON >>>>> ARIN https://ftp.arin.net/pub/stats/arin/transfers/ JSON >>>>> LACNIC https://ftp.lacnic.net/pub/stats/lacnic/transfers/ JSON >>>>> AFRINIC http://ftp.afrinic.net/stats/afrinic/transfers/ JSON >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> /re >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Community-Discuss mailing list >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss From mwangi at isoc.org Tue Jul 23 13:14:43 2019 From: mwangi at isoc.org (Michuki Mwangi) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 13:14:43 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Report of the AFRINIC Open Mic Session on June 20 Message-ID: <20B7A342-B10B-4083-8E4A-2C8735033250@isoc.org> Hello all, As you might remember, the AFRINIC board asked Dawit and I to moderate the open mic discussion after the board meeting on June 20. We accepted the request and moderated the meeting as best as we could. With some delay, we have prepared a report of the meeting that we would like to share here (attached). Kindly note that we focused on reporting on the issues raised rather than providing detailed minutes of the discussion. Please let us know if there is any inaccuracy so that we make corrections before submitting a final version. Thank you, Dawit Bekele and Michuki Mwangi Internet Society African Regional Bureau -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Report _AfriNIC-Open-Mic-session_Kampala.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 80834 bytes Desc: Report _AfriNIC-Open-Mic-session_Kampala.pdf URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Tue Jul 23 20:30:05 2019 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 23:30:05 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: [AfrICANN-discuss] Report of the AFRINIC Open Mic Session on June 20 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear Dawit and Michuki Thanks you so much for this report and having read through it, I find it very accurate as it covers the accounts of the said deliberations. We hope all stakeholders will consider the content of the report and act upon it. Looking forward to more engagement and collaboration. Cheers Noah ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Dawit Bekele Date: Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 12:40 PM Subject: [AfrICANN-discuss] Report of the AFRINIC Open Mic Session on June 20 To: AfrICANN Community List Hi all, As you might remember, AFRINIC board asked Michuki and I to moderate the open mic discussion after the board meeting on June 20. We accepted the request and moderated the meeting as best as we could. With some delay, we have prepared a report of the meeting that we would like to share here (attached). We focused on reporting on the issues raised rather than providing detailed minutes of the discussion. Please let us know if there is any inaccuracy so that we make corrections before submitting a final version. Thank you, Dawit Bekele and Michuki Mwangi Internet Society African Regional Bureau _______________________________________________ AfrICANN mailing list AfrICANN at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/africann -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Report _AfriNIC-Open-Mic-session_Kampala.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 80834 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mark.tinka at seacom.mu Tue Jul 23 21:51:54 2019 From: mark.tinka at seacom.mu (Mark Tinka) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 23:51:54 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: [AfrICANN-discuss] Report of the AFRINIC Open Mic Session on June 20 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Good work, Mich and team! Mark. On 23/Jul/19 22:30, Noah wrote: > Dear Dawit and Michuki > > Thanks you so much for this report and having read through it, I find > it very accurate as it covers the accounts of the said deliberations. > We hope all stakeholders will consider the content of the report and > act upon it. > > Looking forward to more engagement and collaboration. > > Cheers > Noah > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > From: *Dawit Bekele* > > Date: Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 12:40 PM > Subject: [AfrICANN-discuss] Report of the AFRINIC Open Mic Session on > June 20 > To: AfrICANN Community List > > > > Hi all, > > As you might remember, AFRINIC board asked Michuki and I to moderate > the open mic discussion after the board meeting on June 20. We > accepted the request and moderated the meeting as best as we could. > With some delay, we have prepared a report of the meeting that we > would like to share here (attached). We focused on reporting on the > issues raised rather than providing detailed minutes of the discussion. > > Please let us know if there is any inaccuracy so that we make > corrections before submitting a final version. > > Thank you, > > Dawit Bekele and Michuki Mwangi > > Internet Society > > African Regional Bureau > > ? > > ? > > _______________________________________________ > AfrICANN mailing list > AfrICANN at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/africann -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Wed Jul 24 04:11:29 2019 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 21:11:29 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Report of the AFRINIC Open Mic Session on June 20 In-Reply-To: <20B7A342-B10B-4083-8E4A-2C8735033250@isoc.org> References: <20B7A342-B10B-4083-8E4A-2C8735033250@isoc.org> Message-ID: <4F131219-64B1-45A2-86A3-925CF8FEF09A@delong.com>  Michuki and Dawit, Thank you for doing this. I admit that I was pulled into other things and was unable to attend the open mic, so I will take this opportunity to comment on the summary. Organizational Transparency This has been one of the greatest failings of the AfriNIC board to date. While I agree that there are some things the board should not disclose (mostly matters that must remain confidential due to legal strategy, attorney work product, the privacy of staff members undergoing some form of disciplinary review or action, salary data, etc., I do think that the general rule for the board should be ?if in doubt, make it available to the community? rather than ?hide everything unless forced to disclose? (which seems to be closer to the current operating model). I do not believe that detailed information increases suspicion. Rather, I think information breeds trust and silence breeds suspicion. I do support the idea of placing much stricter limits on the scope of the board NDA and a much tighter definition of the confidential information covered by it. In general, I think that there should be a time limit not to exceed 10 days for the board minutes to be made public after a board meeting. (note, I mean 10 days after the meeting, not 10 days after they are adopted at the following meeting). Community Engagement I question the value of additional meetings and additional board travel expense to support them. I think there are better ways for the board to improve community engagement that will both serve a larger fraction of the community and cost the organization less. There should be an open alias that anyone who is subscribed to community-discuss can use in order to communicate with the board. Board members should have an email address published to community members which they monitor and respond to reasonably. (This is the case in all other RIRs to the best of my knowledge). Board members should be required to read and where relevant or requested, respond to the community-discuss and members-discuss lists. In general, board members should seek to make themselves available, approachable, and easy for community members to interact with, both at meetings and via email at other times. Governance Committee IMHO, the governance committee should not be a standing committee. It should have been constituted as an ad hoc committee with a mandate to review the current governance structure of AfriNIC, identify specific improvements that needed to be made, propose the necessary bylaw amendments, procedural changes, etc., explain them to the community and work through the process with the community to refine those proposals into actionable motions or documents. In the case of motions, shepherding them through the process until a vote shows a clear outcome (acceptance or otherwise), and then disband. There is no reason to have a committee whose job is to act as a go-between between the community and the board. This only exacerbates the problems mentioned in Community Engagement. Bylaws, Procedural Matters, and Legal Interpretations Nowhere else in the world are the RIR general member meetings subject to such conduct as is becoming the norm for AfriNIC meetings. There are a number of problems that need to be addressed here? Some need change to the bylaws: + Poorly defined procedures + Lack of a framework for addressing exceptional circumstances + Overly specific definitions of certain aspects (vote must be a show of hands) while failing to define important criteria (how many candidates can one vote for if two people are to be elected and how are those votes to be counted). + Lack of a mandate for NOMCOM to recruit sufficient candidates to stand for election (IMHO, minimum N+1 and better 3N or more where N is the number of positions to be elected).. etc. Some merely need some effort to create proper procedural and operational language and codify it in an appropriate place. + The specifics of how proxies are handled + The ability to appoint proxies for each and/or all of the specific proxy purposes + Election of Directors + Election of ASO/AC Representatives + Voting on Motions on the agenda + General representation in any other matter brought before the meeting + Whether or not a proxy is an authorization to vote in a particular manner or a general authority to act according to the judgment of the person appointed as proxy. + Under extraordinary circumstances such as a meeting which runs well beyond its schedule, the ability to appoint a proxy from the floor to act in one?s stead for the remainder of the meeting. It is my opinion having observed this for several years that the structure of the board requiring specific seats to be allocated to specific regions causes more problems than it solves and that AfriNIC would be better served by making all board seats electable at large. Election and Election Related IMHO, the concerns must be addressed now, while there is no active election cycle. They should not be addressed by the NOMCOM as by the time the NOMCOM is constituted, it is too late and the NOMCOM is technically somewhat conflicted in such deliberations as they are the implementers of any such decisions made. IMHO,the board should appoint an ad hoc committee comprised of board and community members to address these issues or the board should task the governance committee with this job. In any case, the committee in question should be required to provide an initial set of findings to the community (not filtered by the board) no later than the end of November. Community input should be sought on the initial findings and the committee should provide a final recommendation to the community and the board in the form of a set of actionable documents, board motions, and/or special or normal resolutions as needed to implement said recommendations. This final set of recommendations should be provided to both the board and the community in their entirety at the same time. Member Perceptions I think that the various conspiracy theories and accusations being bandied about by various parties are not worthy of our time and should be dismissed. I do not believe that anyone is out to destroy AfriNIC or any particular member organizations. Nonetheless, the amount of attention being paid to these beliefs by some individuals is definitely creating an air of mistrust and causing strife and additional difficulty for the community. IMHO, the best way to address this is greater openness and transparency and more collegial behavior in general. We should strive to live up to those standards. When we succeed, this will be much less of an issue, IMHO. Observations and Conclusion These are very well written and I could not agree more. Thank you again for producing such a well thought out and comprehensive document. Owen From mark.tinka at seacom.mu Wed Jul 24 06:13:10 2019 From: mark.tinka at seacom.mu (Mark Tinka) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 08:13:10 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Report of the AFRINIC Open Mic Session on June 20 In-Reply-To: <4F131219-64B1-45A2-86A3-925CF8FEF09A@delong.com> References: <20B7A342-B10B-4083-8E4A-2C8735033250@isoc.org> <4F131219-64B1-45A2-86A3-925CF8FEF09A@delong.com> Message-ID: <8aea57f0-724c-52ce-3bcd-11f2382f75dc@seacom.mu> Personally, what stands out for me - and something I expressed to a few Board members during Kampala - is that the AFRINIC Board are awfully visible, both in public and non-public circumstances. I sometimes can't quite figure out whether AFRINIC is being run by its staff or the Board. I would like to limit the operational visibility of the Board, and expose more airtime with the AFRINIC staff on a number of matters, both strategic and operational. I do not discount the value and requirement of the Board, but I think it is overshadowing those charged with running the organization on a day-to-day. Mark. On 24/Jul/19 06:11, Owen DeLong wrote: >  Michuki and Dawit, > > Thank you for doing this. > > I admit that I was pulled into other things and was unable to attend the open mic, so I will take this opportunity to comment on the summary. > > Organizational Transparency > > This has been one of the greatest failings of the AfriNIC board to date. While I agree that there are some things the board should not disclose (mostly matters that must remain confidential due to legal strategy, attorney work product, the privacy of staff members undergoing some form of disciplinary review or action, salary data, etc., I do think that the general rule for the board should be ?if in doubt, make it available to the community? rather than ?hide everything unless forced to disclose? (which seems to be closer to the current operating model). > > I do not believe that detailed information increases suspicion. Rather, I think information breeds trust and silence breeds suspicion. > > I do support the idea of placing much stricter limits on the scope of the board NDA and a much tighter definition of the confidential information covered by it. > > In general, I think that there should be a time limit not to exceed 10 days for the board minutes to be made public after a board meeting. (note, I mean 10 days after the meeting, not 10 days after they are adopted at the following meeting). > > Community Engagement > > I question the value of additional meetings and additional board travel expense to support them. I think there are better ways for the board to improve community engagement that will both serve a larger fraction of the community and cost the organization less. > > There should be an open alias that anyone who is subscribed to community-discuss can use in order to communicate with the board. Board members should have an email address published to community members which they monitor and respond to reasonably. (This is the case in all other RIRs to the best of my knowledge). > > Board members should be required to read and where relevant or requested, respond to the community-discuss and members-discuss lists. > > In general, board members should seek to make themselves available, approachable, and easy for community members to interact with, both at meetings and via email at other times. > > Governance Committee > > IMHO, the governance committee should not be a standing committee. It should have been constituted as an ad hoc committee with a mandate to review the current governance structure of AfriNIC, identify specific improvements that needed to be made, propose the necessary bylaw amendments, procedural changes, etc., explain them to the community and work through the process with the community to refine those proposals into actionable motions or documents. In the case of motions, shepherding them through the process until a vote shows a clear outcome (acceptance or otherwise), and then disband. > > There is no reason to have a committee whose job is to act as a go-between between the community and the board. This only exacerbates the problems mentioned in Community Engagement. > > Bylaws, Procedural Matters, and Legal Interpretations > > Nowhere else in the world are the RIR general member meetings subject to such conduct as is becoming the norm for AfriNIC meetings. > > There are a number of problems that need to be addressed here? > Some need change to the bylaws: > + Poorly defined procedures > + Lack of a framework for addressing exceptional circumstances > + Overly specific definitions of certain aspects (vote must be a show of hands) while failing to define > important criteria (how many candidates can one vote for if two people are to be elected and how > are those votes to be counted). > + Lack of a mandate for NOMCOM to recruit sufficient candidates to stand for election (IMHO, minimum N+1 and > better 3N or more where N is the number of positions to be elected).. > etc. > > Some merely need some effort to create proper procedural and operational language and codify it in an appropriate place. > + The specifics of how proxies are handled > + The ability to appoint proxies for each and/or all of the specific proxy purposes > + Election of Directors > + Election of ASO/AC Representatives > + Voting on Motions on the agenda > + General representation in any other matter brought before the meeting > + Whether or not a proxy is an authorization to vote in a particular manner or a general authority > to act according to the judgment of the person appointed as proxy. > + Under extraordinary circumstances such as a meeting which runs well beyond its schedule, the ability to > appoint a proxy from the floor to act in one?s stead for the remainder of the meeting. > > It is my opinion having observed this for several years that the structure of the board requiring specific seats to be allocated to > specific regions causes more problems than it solves and that AfriNIC would be better served by making all board seats > electable at large. > > Election and Election Related > > IMHO, the concerns must be addressed now, while there is no active election cycle. They should not be addressed by the > NOMCOM as by the time the NOMCOM is constituted, it is too late and the NOMCOM is technically somewhat conflicted > in such deliberations as they are the implementers of any such decisions made. > > IMHO,the board should appoint an ad hoc committee comprised of board and community members to address these issues or > the board should task the governance committee with this job. In any case, the committee in question should be required > to provide an initial set of findings to the community (not filtered by the board) no later than the end of November. Community > input should be sought on the initial findings and the committee should provide a final recommendation to the community > and the board in the form of a set of actionable documents, board motions, and/or special or normal resolutions as needed > to implement said recommendations. This final set of recommendations should be provided to both the board and the > community in their entirety at the same time. > > Member Perceptions > > I think that the various conspiracy theories and accusations being bandied about by various parties are not worthy of > our time and should be dismissed. > > I do not believe that anyone is out to destroy AfriNIC or any particular member organizations. Nonetheless, the amount > of attention being paid to these beliefs by some individuals is definitely creating an air of mistrust and causing strife > and additional difficulty for the community. > > IMHO, the best way to address this is greater openness and transparency and more collegial behavior in general. > > We should strive to live up to those standards. When we succeed, this will be much less of an issue, IMHO. > > Observations and Conclusion > > These are very well written and I could not agree more. Thank you again for producing such a well thought out > and comprehensive document. > > Owen > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sami.salih at outlook.com Wed Jul 24 07:41:57 2019 From: sami.salih at outlook.com (Sami Salih) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 07:41:57 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: [AfrICANN-discuss] Report of the AFRINIC Open Mic Session on June 20 In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Thank you Internet Society?s Africa, and Thank you Dawit and Michuki, This is what we expected from ISOC and from you as real Africans who really cares about the stability of this continent. Few points I would like to highlight as follows: 1) The Board can never viewed as part of any problem (I prefer use issues instead) if and only if we (I will always use WE as we are one community) increase the level of transparency. However, increasing transparency DID NOT mean to disclose everything. While I personally support disclosing the methodologies use to take decisions, I believe this is to be evaluated by the board its self to decide on the information to be share with members, community, etc. Overall, the board needed to build a trusted relationship with the community. 2) Engagement is always good thing, semi-annual meeting with one of them organized with AFNOG and accommodate Af* is what we practices for a while. Is this enough or not is not easy to judge by simply take individual views in such session. We need to consider that over-engagement will negatively affect the organization not only in term of financial cost but also the cost of the stability of running the organization, as we need to give board, staff etc a peaceful environment to act and innovate. Substantially, engagement is a two way process, let us see how we can encourage the other parts (than AFRINIC) to initiate engagement initiatives. ;-) 3) Enforce the CC is an urgent requirement not only the personal attack but other hostile activities against the organization and its stability. This is not an easy task, I experienced this during my long term as PDWG Co-, with the population of the community and the diversity of individual and the groups while taking into consideration the number of contributions especially before and after the meeting, its really difficult to moderate the list in a way that satisfying the community and reflect a better image of the glob. We need to tolerate some and stickily avoid/mitigate/prevent or even ban unacceptable locution. This is again a big dilemma as continuous monitoring and instant judgement not an easy task to be achieved. The better way in my perspective is to count on the community maturity to tolerate and ignore bad things posted in an angry moment. In this regard, I propose to have a dedicated group or sub-group may be under Governance Committee to enforce CC in the mailing list and during the meeting and other sessions. 4) The legal interpretations and other bylaw issues can't be discussed in such details during open mic, only specialists in a small dedicated group can provide useful contributions and suggested the way-forward. As you can notice different views and different wishes are expressed at the end only specialist can enlightening and guide the community to respect the local laws and maintain the spirit of the bottom-up system for RIRs. 5) In page (3) please remove/rephrase this sentence ".... vote on policy proposals. ..." cos its not accurate. 6) I would also propose that the Nomination and Election processes to be conducted by the governance committee, or at least they need to set a clear rule and procedure for those sensitive activities. Once again I would like to thank Dawit and Michuki for this detailed report and their observations and proposals. Regards, Sami H.O. Salih, PhD., PMP? Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, Sudan University of Science and Technology, sami.salih at sustech.edu ________________________________ From: Mark Tinka Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2019 12:51 AM To: community-discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: [AfrICANN-discuss] Report of the AFRINIC Open Mic Session on June 20 Good work, Mich and team! Mark. On 23/Jul/19 22:30, Noah wrote: Dear Dawit and Michuki Thanks you so much for this report and having read through it, I find it very accurate as it covers the accounts of the said deliberations. We hope all stakeholders will consider the content of the report and act upon it. Looking forward to more engagement and collaboration. Cheers Noah ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Dawit Bekele > Date: Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 12:40 PM Subject: [AfrICANN-discuss] Report of the AFRINIC Open Mic Session on June 20 To: AfrICANN Community List > Hi all, As you might remember, AFRINIC board asked Michuki and I to moderate the open mic discussion after the board meeting on June 20. We accepted the request and moderated the meeting as best as we could. With some delay, we have prepared a report of the meeting that we would like to share here (attached). We focused on reporting on the issues raised rather than providing detailed minutes of the discussion. Please let us know if there is any inaccuracy so that we make corrections before submitting a final version. Thank you, Dawit Bekele and Michuki Mwangi Internet Society African Regional Bureau _______________________________________________ AfrICANN mailing list AfrICANN at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/africann -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mwangi at isoc.org Thu Jul 25 07:12:42 2019 From: mwangi at isoc.org (Michuki Mwangi) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 07:12:42 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Report of the AFRINIC Open Mic Session on June 20 In-Reply-To: <4F131219-64B1-45A2-86A3-925CF8FEF09A@delong.com> References: <20B7A342-B10B-4083-8E4A-2C8735033250@isoc.org> <4F131219-64B1-45A2-86A3-925CF8FEF09A@delong.com> Message-ID: <533CC13C-6EA7-4DE6-8966-865BBA0451E7@isoc.org> Hello Owen, Thank you for the feedback. Regards, Michuki. > On Jul 24, 2019, at 7:11 AM, Owen DeLong wrote: > >  Michuki and Dawit, > > Thank you for doing this. > > I admit that I was pulled into other things and was unable to attend the open mic, so I will take this opportunity to comment on the summary. > > Organizational Transparency > > This has been one of the greatest failings of the AfriNIC board to date. While I agree that there are some things the board should not disclose (mostly matters that must remain confidential due to legal strategy, attorney work product, the privacy of staff members undergoing some form of disciplinary review or action, salary data, etc., I do think that the general rule for the board should be ?if in doubt, make it available to the community? rather than ?hide everything unless forced to disclose? (which seems to be closer to the current operating model). > > I do not believe that detailed information increases suspicion. Rather, I think information breeds trust and silence breeds suspicion. > > I do support the idea of placing much stricter limits on the scope of the board NDA and a much tighter definition of the confidential information covered by it. > > In general, I think that there should be a time limit not to exceed 10 days for the board minutes to be made public after a board meeting. (note, I mean 10 days after the meeting, not 10 days after they are adopted at the following meeting). > > Community Engagement > > I question the value of additional meetings and additional board travel expense to support them. I think there are better ways for the board to improve community engagement that will both serve a larger fraction of the community and cost the organization less. > > There should be an open alias that anyone who is subscribed to community-discuss can use in order to communicate with the board. Board members should have an email address published to community members which they monitor and respond to reasonably. (This is the case in all other RIRs to the best of my knowledge). > > Board members should be required to read and where relevant or requested, respond to the community-discuss and members-discuss lists. > > In general, board members should seek to make themselves available, approachable, and easy for community members to interact with, both at meetings and via email at other times. > > Governance Committee > > IMHO, the governance committee should not be a standing committee. It should have been constituted as an ad hoc committee with a mandate to review the current governance structure of AfriNIC, identify specific improvements that needed to be made, propose the necessary bylaw amendments, procedural changes, etc., explain them to the community and work through the process with the community to refine those proposals into actionable motions or documents. In the case of motions, shepherding them through the process until a vote shows a clear outcome (acceptance or otherwise), and then disband. > > There is no reason to have a committee whose job is to act as a go-between between the community and the board. This only exacerbates the problems mentioned in Community Engagement. > > Bylaws, Procedural Matters, and Legal Interpretations > > Nowhere else in the world are the RIR general member meetings subject to such conduct as is becoming the norm for AfriNIC meetings. > > There are a number of problems that need to be addressed here? > Some need change to the bylaws: > + Poorly defined procedures > + Lack of a framework for addressing exceptional circumstances > + Overly specific definitions of certain aspects (vote must be a show of hands) while failing to define > important criteria (how many candidates can one vote for if two people are to be elected and how > are those votes to be counted). > + Lack of a mandate for NOMCOM to recruit sufficient candidates to stand for election (IMHO, minimum N+1 and > better 3N or more where N is the number of positions to be elected).. > etc. > > Some merely need some effort to create proper procedural and operational language and codify it in an appropriate place. > + The specifics of how proxies are handled > + The ability to appoint proxies for each and/or all of the specific proxy purposes > + Election of Directors > + Election of ASO/AC Representatives > + Voting on Motions on the agenda > + General representation in any other matter brought before the meeting > + Whether or not a proxy is an authorization to vote in a particular manner or a general authority > to act according to the judgment of the person appointed as proxy. > + Under extraordinary circumstances such as a meeting which runs well beyond its schedule, the ability to > appoint a proxy from the floor to act in one?s stead for the remainder of the meeting. > > It is my opinion having observed this for several years that the structure of the board requiring specific seats to be allocated to > specific regions causes more problems than it solves and that AfriNIC would be better served by making all board seats > electable at large. > > Election and Election Related > > IMHO, the concerns must be addressed now, while there is no active election cycle. They should not be addressed by the > NOMCOM as by the time the NOMCOM is constituted, it is too late and the NOMCOM is technically somewhat conflicted > in such deliberations as they are the implementers of any such decisions made. > > IMHO,the board should appoint an ad hoc committee comprised of board and community members to address these issues or > the board should task the governance committee with this job. In any case, the committee in question should be required > to provide an initial set of findings to the community (not filtered by the board) no later than the end of November. Community > input should be sought on the initial findings and the committee should provide a final recommendation to the community > and the board in the form of a set of actionable documents, board motions, and/or special or normal resolutions as needed > to implement said recommendations. This final set of recommendations should be provided to both the board and the > community in their entirety at the same time. > > Member Perceptions > > I think that the various conspiracy theories and accusations being bandied about by various parties are not worthy of > our time and should be dismissed. > > I do not believe that anyone is out to destroy AfriNIC or any particular member organizations. Nonetheless, the amount > of attention being paid to these beliefs by some individuals is definitely creating an air of mistrust and causing strife > and additional difficulty for the community. > > IMHO, the best way to address this is greater openness and transparency and more collegial behavior in general. > > We should strive to live up to those standards. When we succeed, this will be much less of an issue, IMHO. > > Observations and Conclusion > > These are very well written and I could not agree more. Thank you again for producing such a well thought out > and comprehensive document. > > Owen > From sfolayan at gmail.com Thu Jul 25 09:01:52 2019 From: sfolayan at gmail.com (Sunday Folayan) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 10:01:52 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Report of the AFRINIC Open Mic Session on June 20 In-Reply-To: <20B7A342-B10B-4083-8E4A-2C8735033250@isoc.org> References: <20B7A342-B10B-4083-8E4A-2C8735033250@isoc.org> Message-ID: Dear Dawit, Michuki and the Community, Thank you, ISOC for reporting back on this very important assignment. While I did not immediately see the need to have you play this role at that meeting, of course I questioned this on the floor, further explanations made it easier for me. Now that the Community and the Board have the report, time to begin to nibble at the problems. First .. let us fix NOMCOM and the nominations/election/voting process. That will go a long way to sort out the ISPA-ZA concerns. Next, engage more ISPAs and NOGs to bridge the gap with members and the community at large. Trust comes with consistency. We will get there. Regards ... Sunday. On 23/07/2019 2:14 PM, Michuki Mwangi wrote: > Hello all, > > As you might remember, the AFRINIC board asked Dawit and I to moderate the open mic discussion after the board meeting on June 20. We accepted the request and moderated the meeting as best as we could. > > With some delay, we have prepared a report of the meeting that we would like to share here (attached). Kindly note that we focused on reporting on the issues raised rather than providing detailed minutes of the discussion. Please let us know if there is any inaccuracy so that we make corrections before submitting a final version. > > Thank you, > > Dawit Bekele and Michuki Mwangi > Internet Society > African Regional Bureau > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -- -------------------------------------------------- Sunday Adekunle Folayan Managing Director General data Engineering Services (SKANNET) 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523 Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com --------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sfolayan at gmail.com Thu Jul 25 09:07:43 2019 From: sfolayan at gmail.com (Sunday Folayan) Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 10:07:43 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Report of the AFRINIC Open Mic Session on June 20 In-Reply-To: <8aea57f0-724c-52ce-3bcd-11f2382f75dc@seacom.mu> References: <20B7A342-B10B-4083-8E4A-2C8735033250@isoc.org> <4F131219-64B1-45A2-86A3-925CF8FEF09A@delong.com> <8aea57f0-724c-52ce-3bcd-11f2382f75dc@seacom.mu> Message-ID: <7f53f34d-3dc5-319d-78b3-07581183dca8@gmail.com> Good point Mark, The Board should remain Strategic at all times. Management should be tactical, which staff should maintain operational excellence. While tactical and operational advise can be freely given by the Board, the temptation must be resisted, in crossing the lines. It is not appropriate for a Board member to ask for trouble ticket number(s) on a members list. It is not an act of doing good. An operationally inclined Board will eventually hurt the organization. Thank you for highlighting this. Sunday. On 24/07/2019 7:13 AM, Mark Tinka wrote: > Personally, what stands out for me - and something I expressed to a > few Board members during Kampala - is that the AFRINIC Board are > awfully visible, both in public and non-public circumstances. > > I sometimes can't quite figure out whether AFRINIC is being run by its > staff or the Board. > > I would like to limit the operational visibility of the Board, and > expose more airtime with the AFRINIC staff on a number of matters, > both strategic and operational. > > I do not discount the value and requirement of the Board, but I think > it is overshadowing those charged with running the organization on a > day-to-day. > > Mark. > > On 24/Jul/19 06:11, Owen DeLong wrote: >>  Michuki and Dawit, >> >> Thank you for doing this. >> >> I admit that I was pulled into other things and was unable to attend the open mic, so I will take this opportunity to comment on the summary. >> >> Organizational Transparency >> >> This has been one of the greatest failings of the AfriNIC board to date. While I agree that there are some things the board should not disclose (mostly matters that must remain confidential due to legal strategy, attorney work product, the privacy of staff members undergoing some form of disciplinary review or action, salary data, etc., I do think that the general rule for the board should be ?if in doubt, make it available to the community? rather than ?hide everything unless forced to disclose? (which seems to be closer to the current operating model). >> >> I do not believe that detailed information increases suspicion. Rather, I think information breeds trust and silence breeds suspicion. >> >> I do support the idea of placing much stricter limits on the scope of the board NDA and a much tighter definition of the confidential information covered by it. >> >> In general, I think that there should be a time limit not to exceed 10 days for the board minutes to be made public after a board meeting. (note, I mean 10 days after the meeting, not 10 days after they are adopted at the following meeting). >> >> Community Engagement >> >> I question the value of additional meetings and additional board travel expense to support them. I think there are better ways for the board to improve community engagement that will both serve a larger fraction of the community and cost the organization less. >> >> There should be an open alias that anyone who is subscribed to community-discuss can use in order to communicate with the board. Board members should have an email address published to community members which they monitor and respond to reasonably. (This is the case in all other RIRs to the best of my knowledge). >> >> Board members should be required to read and where relevant or requested, respond to the community-discuss and members-discuss lists. >> >> In general, board members should seek to make themselves available, approachable, and easy for community members to interact with, both at meetings and via email at other times. >> >> Governance Committee >> >> IMHO, the governance committee should not be a standing committee. It should have been constituted as an ad hoc committee with a mandate to review the current governance structure of AfriNIC, identify specific improvements that needed to be made, propose the necessary bylaw amendments, procedural changes, etc., explain them to the community and work through the process with the community to refine those proposals into actionable motions or documents. In the case of motions, shepherding them through the process until a vote shows a clear outcome (acceptance or otherwise), and then disband. >> >> There is no reason to have a committee whose job is to act as a go-between between the community and the board. This only exacerbates the problems mentioned in Community Engagement. >> >> Bylaws, Procedural Matters, and Legal Interpretations >> >> Nowhere else in the world are the RIR general member meetings subject to such conduct as is becoming the norm for AfriNIC meetings. >> >> There are a number of problems that need to be addressed here? >> Some need change to the bylaws: >> + Poorly defined procedures >> + Lack of a framework for addressing exceptional circumstances >> + Overly specific definitions of certain aspects (vote must be a show of hands) while failing to define >> important criteria (how many candidates can one vote for if two people are to be elected and how >> are those votes to be counted). >> + Lack of a mandate for NOMCOM to recruit sufficient candidates to stand for election (IMHO, minimum N+1 and >> better 3N or more where N is the number of positions to be elected).. >> etc. >> >> Some merely need some effort to create proper procedural and operational language and codify it in an appropriate place. >> + The specifics of how proxies are handled >> + The ability to appoint proxies for each and/or all of the specific proxy purposes >> + Election of Directors >> + Election of ASO/AC Representatives >> + Voting on Motions on the agenda >> + General representation in any other matter brought before the meeting >> + Whether or not a proxy is an authorization to vote in a particular manner or a general authority >> to act according to the judgment of the person appointed as proxy. >> + Under extraordinary circumstances such as a meeting which runs well beyond its schedule, the ability to >> appoint a proxy from the floor to act in one?s stead for the remainder of the meeting. >> >> It is my opinion having observed this for several years that the structure of the board requiring specific seats to be allocated to >> specific regions causes more problems than it solves and that AfriNIC would be better served by making all board seats >> electable at large. >> >> Election and Election Related >> >> IMHO, the concerns must be addressed now, while there is no active election cycle. They should not be addressed by the >> NOMCOM as by the time the NOMCOM is constituted, it is too late and the NOMCOM is technically somewhat conflicted >> in such deliberations as they are the implementers of any such decisions made. >> >> IMHO,the board should appoint an ad hoc committee comprised of board and community members to address these issues or >> the board should task the governance committee with this job. In any case, the committee in question should be required >> to provide an initial set of findings to the community (not filtered by the board) no later than the end of November. Community >> input should be sought on the initial findings and the committee should provide a final recommendation to the community >> and the board in the form of a set of actionable documents, board motions, and/or special or normal resolutions as needed >> to implement said recommendations. This final set of recommendations should be provided to both the board and the >> community in their entirety at the same time. >> >> Member Perceptions >> >> I think that the various conspiracy theories and accusations being bandied about by various parties are not worthy of >> our time and should be dismissed. >> >> I do not believe that anyone is out to destroy AfriNIC or any particular member organizations. Nonetheless, the amount >> of attention being paid to these beliefs by some individuals is definitely creating an air of mistrust and causing strife >> and additional difficulty for the community. >> >> IMHO, the best way to address this is greater openness and transparency and more collegial behavior in general. >> >> We should strive to live up to those standards. When we succeed, this will be much less of an issue, IMHO. >> >> Observations and Conclusion >> >> These are very well written and I could not agree more. Thank you again for producing such a well thought out >> and comprehensive document. >> >> Owen >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -- -------------------------------------------------- Sunday Adekunle Folayan Managing Director General data Engineering Services (SKANNET) 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523 Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com --------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dndannang at gmail.com Mon Jul 29 13:06:59 2019 From: dndannang at gmail.com (DANIEL NANGHAKA) Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 16:06:59 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: [AfrICANN-discuss] Report of the AFRINIC Open Mic Session on June 20 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Dear All, I have read the report and acknowledge that this is a great report and provides appropriate action points to be considered. Kind Regards Daniel K. Nanghaka ? On Wed, 24 Jul 2019 at 10:42, Sami Salih wrote: > Thank you Internet Society?s Africa, and Thank you Dawit and Michuki, > This is what we expected from ISOC and from you as real Africans who > really cares about the stability of this continent. > > Few points I would like to highlight as follows: > > 1) The Board can never viewed as part of any problem (I prefer use issues > instead) if and only if we (I will always use WE as we are one community) > increase the level of transparency. However, increasing transparency DID > NOT mean to disclose everything. While I personally support disclosing the > methodologies use to take decisions, I believe this is to be evaluated by > the board its self to decide on the information to be share with members, > community, etc. Overall, the board needed to build a trusted relationship > with the community. > > 2) Engagement is always good thing, semi-annual meeting with one of them > organized with AFNOG and accommodate Af* is what we practices for a while. > Is this enough or not is not easy to judge by simply take individual views > in such session. We need to consider that over-engagement will negatively > affect the organization not only in term of financial cost but also the > cost of the stability of running the organization, as we need to give > board, staff etc a peaceful environment to act and innovate. Substantially, > engagement is a two way process, let us see how we can encourage the other > parts (than AFRINIC) to initiate engagement initiatives. ;-) > > 3) Enforce the CC is an urgent requirement not only the personal attack > but other hostile activities against the organization and its stability. > This is not an easy task, I experienced this during my long term as PDWG > Co-, with the population of the community and the diversity of individual > and the groups while taking into consideration the number of contributions > especially before and after the meeting, its really difficult to moderate > the list in a way that satisfying the community and reflect a better image > of the glob. We need to tolerate some and stickily avoid/mitigate/prevent > or even ban unacceptable locution. This is again a big dilemma as > continuous monitoring and instant judgement not an easy task to be > achieved. The better way in my perspective is to count on the community > maturity to tolerate and ignore bad things posted in an angry moment. > In this regard, I propose to have a dedicated group or sub-group may be > under Governance Committee to enforce CC in the mailing list and during the > meeting and other sessions. > > 4) The legal interpretations and other bylaw issues can't be discussed in > such details during open mic, only specialists in a small dedicated group > can provide useful contributions and suggested the way-forward. As you can > notice different views and different wishes are expressed at the end only > specialist can enlightening and guide the community to respect the local > laws and maintain the spirit of the bottom-up system for RIRs. > > 5) In page (3) please remove/rephrase this sentence ".... vote on policy > proposals. ..." cos its not accurate. > > 6) I would also propose that the Nomination and Election processes to be > conducted by the governance committee, or at least they need to set a clear > rule and procedure for those sensitive activities. > > Once again I would like to thank Dawit and Michuki for this detailed > report and their observations and proposals. > > Regards, > > > *Sami H.O. Salih, PhD., PMP*? > Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, > Sudan University of Science and Technology, > sami.salih at sustech.edu > ------------------------------ > *From:* Mark Tinka > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 24, 2019 12:51 AM > *To:* community-discuss at afrinic.net > *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: [AfrICANN-discuss] Report of the > AFRINIC Open Mic Session on June 20 > > Good work, Mich and team! > > Mark. > > On 23/Jul/19 22:30, Noah wrote: > > Dear Dawit and Michuki > > Thanks you so much for this report and having read through it, I find it > very accurate as it covers the accounts of the said deliberations. We hope > all stakeholders will consider the content of the report and act upon it. > > Looking forward to more engagement and collaboration. > > Cheers > Noah > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > From: *Dawit Bekele* > Date: Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 12:40 PM > Subject: [AfrICANN-discuss] Report of the AFRINIC Open Mic Session on June > 20 > To: AfrICANN Community List > > > Hi all, > > As you might remember, AFRINIC board asked Michuki and I to moderate the > open mic discussion after the board meeting on June 20. We accepted the > request and moderated the meeting as best as we could. With some delay, we > have prepared a report of the meeting that we would like to share here > (attached). We focused on reporting on the issues raised rather than > providing detailed minutes of the discussion. > > Please let us know if there is any inaccuracy so that we make corrections > before submitting a final version. > > Thank you, > > Dawit Bekele and Michuki Mwangi > > Internet Society > > African Regional Bureau > > > > > _______________________________________________ > AfrICANN mailing list > AfrICANN at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/africann > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From owen at delong.com Tue Jul 30 04:32:05 2019 From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong) Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 21:32:05 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: [AfrICANN-discuss] Report of the AFRINIC Open Mic Session on June 20 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > On Jul 24, 2019, at 00:41 , Sami Salih wrote: > > Thank you Internet Society?s Africa, and Thank you Dawit and Michuki, > This is what we expected from ISOC and from you as real Africans who really cares about the stability of this continent. > > Few points I would like to highlight as follows: > > 1) The Board can never viewed as part of any problem (I prefer use issues instead) if and only if we (I will always use WE as we are one community) increase the level of transparency. However, increasing transparency DID NOT mean to disclose everything. While I personally support disclosing the methodologies use to take decisions, I believe this is to be evaluated by the board its self to decide on the information to be share with members, community, etc. Overall, the board needed to build a trusted relationship with the community. It is absurd to claim the board can never be viewed as ?part of any issue? or ?part of any problem?. It is entirely possible for them to be part of the problem and several past actions show that they have, in fact, been part of the problem. If the board was not considered to be part of the problem, there would not have been a landslide victory for ?none of the above? across the board in the 2018 board elections. > 4) The legal interpretations and other bylaw issues can't be discussed in such details during open mic, only specialists in a small dedicated group can provide useful contributions and suggested the way-forward. As you can notice different views and different wishes are expressed at the end only specialist can enlightening and guide the community to respect the local laws and maintain the spirit of the bottom-up system for RIRs. While there is value to having these issues worked by small working groups to bring proposals back to the wider community and collect feedback, this should be an iterative process and there is absolutely good value in having wide community input into the process at various stages. IMHO, only when a proposal achieves relatively wide support in community consultations should it be formalized into motions put before an xGMM. > 5) In page (3) please remove/rephrase this sentence ".... vote on policy proposals. ..." cos its not accurate. That whole paragraph is questionable, actually. There are specific requirements to participate in the PDP? 1. You must have an email address. 2. You must subscribe to the PDWG mailing list. 3. You must begin participating. I do not see how this particular set of requirements either enfranchises or disenfranchises one of any particular right to ?vote?. > 6) I would also propose that the Nomination and Election processes to be conducted by the governance committee, or at least they need to set a clear rule and procedure for those sensitive activities. I think that the board, possibly in consultation with the GC should propose the necessary bylaw amendments to correct the identified deficiencies in the election process and specifications and also produce a set of procedural documents which cover the identified gaps that are not necessarily bylaw material, but more operational and procedural in nature. I do not think that the election process itself should be managed by the GC. I believe that the current situation where the board supervises the nomcom is correct, but needs some fine-tuning in terms of how the nom-com is managed and what its responsibilities are. Owen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sami.salih at outlook.com Tue Jul 30 06:08:58 2019 From: sami.salih at outlook.com (Sami Salih) Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 06:08:58 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: [AfrICANN-discuss] Report of the AFRINIC Open Mic Session on June 20 In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: Owen, Its also absurd and clear inconsistency to attack the board, I don't know if you don't like the current board composition or the role of the AFRINIC board ? in all cases we should respect the board and respect our chair simply because they are elected to volunteer somethings good to the community, if any one or group believe the opposite he/they can free to nominate/support good representatives during election period, any disturbance in-between can't considered in meant well way! For the point (4) I think we agreed on the base logic. Point (5) no comments may others can contribute Its again absurd to conclude with "....I believe that the current situation where the board supervises the nomcom is correct, but needs some fine-tuning..." while you see the board as problem ?! I thank you very much for admitting that "needs some fine-tuning" please apply this to all what we faces in AFRINIC. Dr. Sami H.O. Salih Assistant Prof, School of Electronics Engineering, SUST Head of R&D, NTC, SUDAN President of SDv6TF T/F: (249)122045707/187171355 ________________________________ From: Owen DeLong Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2019 7:32 AM To: Sami Salih Cc: Mark Tinka ; community-discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: [AfrICANN-discuss] Report of the AFRINIC Open Mic Session on June 20 On Jul 24, 2019, at 00:41 , Sami Salih > wrote: Thank you Internet Society?s Africa, and Thank you Dawit and Michuki, This is what we expected from ISOC and from you as real Africans who really cares about the stability of this continent. Few points I would like to highlight as follows: 1) The Board can never viewed as part of any problem (I prefer use issues instead) if and only if we (I will always use WE as we are one community) increase the level of transparency. However, increasing transparency DID NOT mean to disclose everything. While I personally support disclosing the methodologies use to take decisions, I believe this is to be evaluated by the board its self to decide on the information to be share with members, community, etc. Overall, the board needed to build a trusted relationship with the community. It is absurd to claim the board can never be viewed as ?part of any issue? or ?part of any problem?. It is entirely possible for them to be part of the problem and several past actions show that they have, in fact, been part of the problem. If the board was not considered to be part of the problem, there would not have been a landslide victory for ?none of the above? across the board in the 2018 board elections. 4) The legal interpretations and other bylaw issues can't be discussed in such details during open mic, only specialists in a small dedicated group can provide useful contributions and suggested the way-forward. As you can notice different views and different wishes are expressed at the end only specialist can enlightening and guide the community to respect the local laws and maintain the spirit of the bottom-up system for RIRs. While there is value to having these issues worked by small working groups to bring proposals back to the wider community and collect feedback, this should be an iterative process and there is absolutely good value in having wide community input into the process at various stages. IMHO, only when a proposal achieves relatively wide support in community consultations should it be formalized into motions put before an xGMM. 5) In page (3) please remove/rephrase this sentence ".... vote on policy proposals. ..." cos its not accurate. That whole paragraph is questionable, actually. There are specific requirements to participate in the PDP? 1. You must have an email address. 2. You must subscribe to the PDWG mailing list. 3. You must begin participating. I do not see how this particular set of requirements either enfranchises or disenfranchises one of any particular right to ?vote?. 6) I would also propose that the Nomination and Election processes to be conducted by the governance committee, or at least they need to set a clear rule and procedure for those sensitive activities. I think that the board, possibly in consultation with the GC should propose the necessary bylaw amendments to correct the identified deficiencies in the election process and specifications and also produce a set of procedural documents which cover the identified gaps that are not necessarily bylaw material, but more operational and procedural in nature. I do not think that the election process itself should be managed by the GC. I believe that the current situation where the board supervises the nomcom is correct, but needs some fine-tuning in terms of how the nom-com is managed and what its responsibilities are. 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