From dewole at tinitop.com  Tue Dec  3 16:39:48 2019
From: dewole at tinitop.com (Adewole Ajao)
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2019 17:39:48 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Board Community Engagement
Message-ID: <CAOS=cAWpVzR2E36ePT8p=U4XKW_1kKN=i9D3sPK6E+BZW3YAiA@mail.gmail.com>

On the agenda for the last day of AFRINIC-31
https://meeting.afrinic.net/afrinic-31/en/agenda/programme   is a 90-minute
session for Board Community Engagement.

This is an interactive session between the AFRINIC Board and the AFRINIC
community to discuss on AFRINIC's governance amongst others.


May I ask for a draft agenda for this session ASAP, please? The currently
published outline is rather vague.

In particular, I am interested in being able to make contribution to the
topics ahead of the session or remotely. As I have stated in the past
regarding a similar engagement, having a rough outline will also help with
time management for the session (if the aim is to achieve something more
than just checking a box off a to-do list).

Thanks to the initiators for making this possible.

Regards,
Dewole.
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From christianbope at gmail.com  Wed Dec  4 11:32:06 2019
From: christianbope at gmail.com (Bope Domilongo Christian)
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2019 12:32:06 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [Board-Discuss] AFRINIC Board Community
	Engagement
In-Reply-To: <CAOS=cAWpVzR2E36ePT8p=U4XKW_1kKN=i9D3sPK6E+BZW3YAiA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOS=cAWpVzR2E36ePT8p=U4XKW_1kKN=i9D3sPK6E+BZW3YAiA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN7nxtNPyP0=1WR-_omptbm4xwdpuVmhEx4Bs8AFjBSdCXLNxA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Adewole and community,

The following agenda will be discussed.

   *1. Strategic plan*

      The current strategic plan is from 2016 to 2020.  AfriNIC management
will publish an assessment of the current strategic plan and launch a
consultation on the strategic plan for 2021 to 2025.

  * 2. Election guidelines*

      AfriNIC is holding a public consultation about the election
guidelines.  The deadline for comments is 13 December 2019

  * 3. Filling of casual vacancy for Eastern Africa (Seat 6)*

      The seat on the Board for Eastern Africa is vacant since October.
The Board has decided to fill the seat according to the process which was
followed for the previous casual vacancies.

*4. External Auditor for Financial Year 2019*

      AfriNIC has a statutory requirement to appoint an External Auditor.
The External Auditor which was appointed for FY 2019 informed AfriNIC that
it will be unavailable to conduct the exercise.  A letter was sent to PwC
to provide the rationale behind their decision and we are still waiting for
PwC response.  AfriNIC will be appointing an External Auditor to fill the
casual vacancy as per section 15.3 (v).

   *5. Update on IP investigation*

      AFRINIC has attracted some media coverage relating to suspicious
activity in its WHOIS database primarily a limited section of legacy
resources.  investigation was initiated.  The investigation is ongoing.

   *6. Open the floor.*



On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 at 17:40, Adewole Ajao via board <board at afrinic.net>
wrote:

> On the agenda for the last day of AFRINIC-31
> https://meeting.afrinic.net/afrinic-31/en/agenda/programme   is a
> 90-minute session for Board Community Engagement.
>
> This is an interactive session between the AFRINIC Board and the AFRINIC
> community to discuss on AFRINIC's governance amongst others.
>
>
> May I ask for a draft agenda for this session ASAP, please? The currently
> published outline is rather vague.
>
> In particular, I am interested in being able to make contribution to the
> topics ahead of the session or remotely. As I have stated in the past
> regarding a similar engagement, having a rough outline will also help with
> time management for the session (if the aim is to achieve something more
> than just checking a box off a to-do list).
>
> Thanks to the initiators for making this possible.
>
> Regards,
> Dewole.
> _______________________________________________
> board mailing list
> board at afrinic.net
>
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From dewole at tinitop.com  Wed Dec  4 11:45:04 2019
From: dewole at tinitop.com (Adewole Ajao)
Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2019 12:45:04 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [Board-Discuss] AFRINIC Board Community
	Engagement
In-Reply-To: <CAN7nxtNPyP0=1WR-_omptbm4xwdpuVmhEx4Bs8AFjBSdCXLNxA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOS=cAWpVzR2E36ePT8p=U4XKW_1kKN=i9D3sPK6E+BZW3YAiA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAN7nxtNPyP0=1WR-_omptbm4xwdpuVmhEx4Bs8AFjBSdCXLNxA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOS=cAUGec3RLK7-K27rbdr+AQiroZtGJDD1xKT95+Yy1HOBCQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you very much for the details, Chair.

I look forward to the engagement and to seeing a very prompt summary of
discussions sent to the lists afterwards. With that, those not physically
present can quickly add their thoughts if any.

All the best!

Regards,
Dewole.


On Wed, 4 Dec 2019, 12:34 Bope Domilongo Christian, <christianbope at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Adewole and community,
>
> The following agenda will be discussed.
>
>    *1. Strategic plan*
>
>       The current strategic plan is from 2016 to 2020.  AfriNIC management
> will publish an assessment of the current strategic plan and launch a
> consultation on the strategic plan for 2021 to 2025.
>
>   * 2. Election guidelines*
>
>       AfriNIC is holding a public consultation about the election
> guidelines.  The deadline for comments is 13 December 2019
>
>   * 3. Filling of casual vacancy for Eastern Africa (Seat 6)*
>
>       The seat on the Board for Eastern Africa is vacant since October.
> The Board has decided to fill the seat according to the process which was
> followed for the previous casual vacancies.
>
> *4. External Auditor for Financial Year 2019*
>
>       AfriNIC has a statutory requirement to appoint an External Auditor.
> The External Auditor which was appointed for FY 2019 informed AfriNIC that
> it will be unavailable to conduct the exercise.  A letter was sent to PwC
> to provide the rationale behind their decision and we are still waiting for
> PwC response.  AfriNIC will be appointing an External Auditor to fill the
> casual vacancy as per section 15.3 (v).
>
>    *5. Update on IP investigation*
>
>       AFRINIC has attracted some media coverage relating to suspicious
> activity in its WHOIS database primarily a limited section of legacy
> resources.  investigation was initiated.  The investigation is ongoing.
>
>    *6. Open the floor.*
>
>
>
> On Tue, 3 Dec 2019 at 17:40, Adewole Ajao via board <board at afrinic.net>
> wrote:
>
>> On the agenda for the last day of AFRINIC-31
>> https://meeting.afrinic.net/afrinic-31/en/agenda/programme   is a
>> 90-minute session for Board Community Engagement.
>>
>> This is an interactive session between the AFRINIC Board and the AFRINIC
>> community to discuss on AFRINIC's governance amongst others.
>>
>>
>> May I ask for a draft agenda for this session ASAP, please? The currently
>> published outline is rather vague.
>>
>> In particular, I am interested in being able to make contribution to the
>> topics ahead of the session or remotely. As I have stated in the past
>> regarding a similar engagement, having a rough outline will also help with
>> time management for the session (if the aim is to achieve something more
>> than just checking a box off a to-do list).
>>
>> Thanks to the initiators for making this possible.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dewole.
>> _______________________________________________
>> board mailing list
>> board at afrinic.net
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
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From rfg at tristatelogic.com  Wed Dec  4 17:23:49 2019
From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette)
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2019 09:23:49 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
Message-ID: <11702.1575480229@segfault.tristatelogic.com>

I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
news story.

https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
 
I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I only
wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen
is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
 
 
Regards,
rfg




From sfolayan at gmail.com  Thu Dec  5 11:02:06 2019
From: sfolayan at gmail.com (Sunday Folayan)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 12:02:06 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
In-Reply-To: <11702.1575480229@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
References: <11702.1575480229@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
Message-ID: <ea8dc349-e2dc-2a8c-eb0e-ab85139edf6a@gmail.com>

Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient 
squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC 
Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to 
help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

Thanks.

Sunday.

On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
> news story.
>
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>   
> I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I only
> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen
> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>   
>   
> Regards,
> rfg
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
-- 
--------------------------------------------------
Sunday Adekunle Folayan
Managing Director
General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
---------------------------------------------------




From mark.tinka at seacom.mu  Thu Dec  5 12:27:42 2019
From: mark.tinka at seacom.mu (Mark Tinka)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:27:42 +0200
Subject: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
In-Reply-To: <ea8dc349-e2dc-2a8c-eb0e-ab85139edf6a@gmail.com>
References: <11702.1575480229@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
 <ea8dc349-e2dc-2a8c-eb0e-ab85139edf6a@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16@seacom.mu>

Completely agree with Sunday.

Mark.

On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>
> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how
> to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Sunday.
>
> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
>> news story.
>>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>>
>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the moment,
>> I only
>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> Vermeulen
>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> ? ? Regards,
>> rfg
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>

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From silber.mike at gmail.com  Thu Dec  5 12:46:15 2019
From: silber.mike at gmail.com (Mike Silber)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:46:15 +0200
Subject: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
In-Reply-To: <9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16@seacom.mu>
References: <11702.1575480229@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
 <ea8dc349-e2dc-2a8c-eb0e-ab85139edf6a@gmail.com>
 <9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16@seacom.mu>
Message-ID: <2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3@gmail.com>

Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome. 

Mike

> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:
> 
> Completely agree with Sunday.
> 
> Mark.
> 
> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA? 
>> 
>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa. 
>> 
>> Thanks. 
>> 
>> Sunday. 
>> 
>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: 
>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following 
>>> news story. 
>>> 
>>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html> 
>>>   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I only 
>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen 
>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved. 
>>>     Regards, 
>>> rfg 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________ 
>>> Community-Discuss mailing list 
>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net> 
>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss> 
>>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

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From mje at posix.co.za  Thu Dec  5 12:59:57 2019
From: mje at posix.co.za (Mark Elkins)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:59:57 +0200
Subject: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
In-Reply-To: <2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3@gmail.com>
References: <11702.1575480229@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
 <ea8dc349-e2dc-2a8c-eb0e-ab85139edf6a@gmail.com>
 <9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16@seacom.mu>
 <2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <007bb014-4eb8-157f-5312-f8333782f32f@posix.co.za>

Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to 
manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case (looting 
of non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.

On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears 
> to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>
> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem 
> and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>
> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how 
> space that should have been subject to the RSA has been 
> mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of 
> legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving 
> legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.
>
> Mike
>
>> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu 
>> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
>>
>> Completely agree with Sunday.
>>
>> Mark.
>>
>> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient 
>>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC 
>>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>>>
>>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see 
>>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Sunday.
>>>
>>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the 
>>>> following
>>>> news story.
>>>>
>>>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html 
>>>>
>>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the 
>>>> moment, I only
>>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan 
>>>> Vermeulen
>>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>>>> ? ? Regards,
>>>> rfg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
-- 

Mark James ELKINS? -? Posix Systems - (South) Africa
mje at posix.co.za?????? Tel: +27.826010496 <tel:+27826010496>
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za

Posix SystemsVCARD for MJ Elkins

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From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com  Thu Dec  5 13:10:48 2019
From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:10:48 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
In-Reply-To: <007bb014-4eb8-157f-5312-f8333782f32f@posix.co.za>
References: <11702.1575480229@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
 <ea8dc349-e2dc-2a8c-eb0e-ab85139edf6a@gmail.com>
 <9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16@seacom.mu>
 <2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3@gmail.com>,
 <007bb014-4eb8-157f-5312-f8333782f32f@posix.co.za>
Message-ID: <DBBPR03MB5415D6F757C9E3BD1AE2CDE4EE5C0@DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>

I would be very curious to hear from a legal perspective what - if any - legal liability AfriNIC has in a situation like this.

The fact is - space has value - and if space is stolen - used for spam or whatever else - and the reputation of said space is damaged - it?s value decreases.  Now I fully realize that space can be hijacked - and at that point potentially the hijackers may hold the liability. However - when the space seems to have been stolen and sold off by a staff member of the organization that is meant in effect to the curator of the space - I question if there is not a liability issue at play if it can be proven that due care was not taken to safe guard against the actions taken.

I?m no lawyer though so I would really be interested to know the legal perspective - can an rir be held liable to the actions of its staff if it did not adequately protect against the actions taken.

Andrew

Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
________________________________
From: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za>
Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 3:59:57 PM
To: community-discuss at afrinic.net <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC


Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case (looting of non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.

On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.

I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.

Mike

On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu<mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:

Completely agree with Sunday.

Mark.

On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?

I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.

Thanks.

Sunday.

On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
news story.

https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html<https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html>
  I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I only
wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen
is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
    Regards,
rfg


_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>


_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>




_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>


--

Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
mje at posix.co.za<mailto:mje at posix.co.za>       Tel: +27.826010496<tel:+27826010496>
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za<https://ftth.posix.co.za>

[Posix            Systems][VCARD for            MJ Elkins]
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From mark.tinka at seacom.mu  Thu Dec  5 13:11:04 2019
From: mark.tinka at seacom.mu (Mark Tinka)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 15:11:04 +0200
Subject: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
In-Reply-To: <2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3@gmail.com>
References: <11702.1575480229@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
 <ea8dc349-e2dc-2a8c-eb0e-ab85139edf6a@gmail.com>
 <9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16@seacom.mu>
 <2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7fa06e69-5728-f936-ce1d-f471893ccc17@seacom.mu>

I don't disagree with that either.

I am certain AFRINIC are working on this, and I know there will be no
shortage of queries about this from the field, much to our
already-clogged e-mail boxes. I don't want to do the jobs of others; no
one is doing mine for me.

My preferred current focus - your last paragraph, below.

Mark.

On 5/Dec/19 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
> to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>
> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
> and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>
> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
> space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
> mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
> legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving
> legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.?
>
> Mike
>
>> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu
>> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
>>
>> Completely agree with Sunday.
>>
>> Mark.
>>
>> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>>>
>>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see
>>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Sunday.
>>>
>>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
>>>> following
>>>> news story.
>>>>
>>>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>>>>
>>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the
>>>> moment, I only
>>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>>>> Vermeulen
>>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>>>> ? ? Regards,
>>>> rfg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>

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From sfolayan at gmail.com  Thu Dec  5 18:54:21 2019
From: sfolayan at gmail.com (Sunday Folayan)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 19:54:21 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
In-Reply-To: <2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3@gmail.com>
References: <11702.1575480229@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
 <ea8dc349-e2dc-2a8c-eb0e-ab85139edf6a@gmail.com>
 <9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16@seacom.mu>
 <2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5@gmail.com>

It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest 
that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy 
space.

The community has been informed that there is already some internal 
investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things 
done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are 
established, the law should take its course and people should stand 
accountable for their deeds.

I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund 
organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7 
years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover 
the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active 
use, why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for 
the common good?

For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal 
department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.

While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf 
of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, 
with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should 
rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are 
available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our 
time and intellect.

Sunday.

On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears 
> to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>
> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem 
> and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>
> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how 
> space that should have been subject to the RSA has been 
> mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of 
> legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving 
> legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.
>
> Mike
>
>> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu 
>> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
>>
>> Completely agree with Sunday.
>>
>> Mark.
>>
>> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient 
>>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC 
>>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>>>
>>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see 
>>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Sunday.
>>>
>>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the 
>>>> following
>>>> news story.
>>>>
>>>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html 
>>>>
>>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the 
>>>> moment, I only
>>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan 
>>>> Vermeulen
>>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>>>> ? ? Regards,
>>>> rfg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

-- 
--------------------------------------------------
Sunday Adekunle Folayan
Managing Director
General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
---------------------------------------------------

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From Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net  Thu Dec  5 19:15:59 2019
From: Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net (Omo Oaiya)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:15:59 +0200
Subject: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
In-Reply-To: <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5@gmail.com>
References: <11702.1575480229@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
 <ea8dc349-e2dc-2a8c-eb0e-ab85139edf6a@gmail.com>
 <9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16@seacom.mu>
 <2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3@gmail.com>
 <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAG1eoi3w-F2Ui-BfiKmBqYJ=srHdvBJx2F5vS2k__asGCVTwVw@mail.gmail.com>

I have to agree with this. As shocking and disappointing as the revelations
might be, this makes the most sense to me.

Omo

On Thu, 5 Dec 2019, 20:56 Sunday Folayan, <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:

> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest
> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy
> space.
>
> The community has been informed that there is already some internal
> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things done.
> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are established,
> the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for
> their deeds.
>
> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover
> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active use,
> why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for the
> common good?
>
> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.
>
> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf of
> the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, with
> the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather
> apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for
> developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and
> intellect.
> Sunday.
>
> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
>
> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>
> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and
> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>
> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then
> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes
> may not have the desired outcome.
>
> Mike
>
> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:
>
> Completely agree with Sunday.
>
> Mark.
>
> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>
> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>
> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to
> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Sunday.
>
> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>
> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
> news story.
>
>
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
> only
> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen
> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>     Regards,
> rfg
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------------
> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> Managing Director
> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
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From abscoco at gmail.com  Thu Dec  5 20:28:06 2019
From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain Baya)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:28:06 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC
In-Reply-To: <007bb014-4eb8-157f-5312-f8333782f32f@posix.co.za>
References: <11702.1575480229@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
 <ea8dc349-e2dc-2a8c-eb0e-ab85139edf6a@gmail.com>
 <9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16@seacom.mu>
 <2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3@gmail.com>
 <007bb014-4eb8-157f-5312-f8333782f32f@posix.co.za>
Message-ID: <CAJjTEvE+sHgdAsJUO4D1pYe1eEwCk6WEMosvhknZqS+AwyF6Kg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Le jeudi 5 d?cembre 2019, Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za> a ?crit :

> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to
> manipulate the non-legacy space -
>

Dear Mark,
...i agree !

yet it happened. In this case (looting of non-legacy space), the RSA has
> meant nothing.
>

As you say, i take you on words ; then if the RSA (Registration Service
Agreement) could
easily be bypassed, how to deal with our 'emerged' problem ?

...perhaps time to seriously reconsider the long life DPP (Draft Policy
Proposal) [1] ?
__
[1]: <https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2016-gen-001-d8/amp>

Shalom,
--sb.

On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
>
> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>
> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and
> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>
> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then
> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes
> may not have the desired outcome.
>
> Mike
>
> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:
>
> Completely agree with Sunday.
>
> Mark.
>
> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>
> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>
> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to
> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Sunday.
>
> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>
> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
> news story.
>
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-
> resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
> only
> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen
> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>     Regards,
> rfg
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
> --
>
> Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
> mje at posix.co.za       Tel: +27.826010496 <+27826010496>
> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
>
> [image: Posix Systems][image: VCARD for MJ Elkins]
>


-- 

--
Best Regards !
baya.sylvain [AT cmNOG DOT cm] | <https://www.cmnog.cm> | <
https://survey.cmnog.cm>
Subscribe to Mailing List : <https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/>
__
#?LASAINTEBIBLE?|?#?Romains15?:33?*Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec
vous tous! ?#?Amen?!*?
?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement?
?*Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire
apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!*? (#Psaumes42:2)
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From isabel.odida at gmail.com  Thu Dec  5 22:43:48 2019
From: isabel.odida at gmail.com (Isabel Odida)
Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 23:43:48 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
In-Reply-To: <11702.1575480229@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
References: <11702.1575480229@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
Message-ID: <6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D@gmail.com>

I know what sparked this story. Some people have no chill. How convenient following the last meeting in June. Ok, and then what? What have you benefited?

Sent from my iPhone

> On 4 Dec 2019, at 18:23, Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg at tristatelogic.com> wrote:
> 
> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
> news story.
> 
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> 
> I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I only
> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen
> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> rfg
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss



From rfg at tristatelogic.com  Thu Dec  5 22:44:58 2019
From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette)
Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 14:44:58 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
In-Reply-To: <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <18818.1575585898@segfault.tristatelogic.com>

In message <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>, 
Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:

>The community has been informed that there is already some internal 
>investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things 
>done.

Mr. Folayan,

These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,
2019, a full three months ago.  Since that time there has not been a
single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,
or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague assurances
that these matters are being looked into.

Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns
about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full
three years ago.

    https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html
    https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html
    https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html

I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again
repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,
albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention
paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any
concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.

    https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html
    https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html
    https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html

At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly
in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive
issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to
entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it
were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the
courageous reporting of MyBroadband.co.za.  Neither the board nor
the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any
clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will
either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders
and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive
any of the findings that it may reach.  And yet despite having had
either three full months or three full years to look into these
matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and
despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming
from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel patience.

This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the
community's patience to come to an end?  Does the community have any
assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another
three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield
anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the
current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions
of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?

On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at long
last be forthcoming?

>I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are 
>established, the law should take its course and people should stand 
>accountable for their deeds.

This assertion on your part begs four further questions:

1)  Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been presented
in the MyBroadband.co.za article, the majority of which were drawn from
publicly available sources including open government records, what more
will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and intentions
are established"?  What parts of the abundant documentary evidence already
presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?

2)  If, as asserted in the MyBroadband.co.za article, it can be persuasively
demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in fact
purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that AFRINIC
itself is one of the aggrieved parties?  And if so, would you hope and
expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and
all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?

3)  Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and endemic
within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do you
have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all
likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?

4)  What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-
documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks from
AFRINIC's own free pool?  Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed by
AFRINIC?  Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever they
may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten booty
on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?

>I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund 
>organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7 
>years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover 
>the manipulations.

On this point, you and I are in complete agreement.  "The system", such
as it is, is quite self-evidently broken.  But this raises the further
question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at AFRINIC,
while all of this was going on.  Is it even plausible that a single bad
actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars
worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a
several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC
staff even noticed any of this?

>For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal 
>department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.

See above.  Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced with
respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself.  No other
single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much
valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself.  And yet we have, as yet, no
clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any staff
member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone
that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated
by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.

If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new dictionary.

>While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf 
>of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, 
>with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should 
>rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are 
>available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our 
>time and intellect.

See above.  With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we
may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"?  I have
so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any
document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member of
AFRINIC.  In fact, quite the opposite.  I see that a purported three
month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth publicly
reporting on so far.  I see an attempt to shift the blame for this colossal
and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders
while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of
AFRINIC itself.  I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action
will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a
backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a general
disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific
national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.

For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances misplaced,
Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.
The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and
to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or placed
under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to all.
AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding responsibility.

I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and effectively
remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still ongoing
after-effects.  I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now
evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the carpet
will no longer be considered a vialble option.


Regards,
rfg


P.S.  I must strenuously object to your use of the word "whistleblower" in
this context Mr. Folayan.  That term is usually used in reference to some
insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed
first-hand some malfeasance.  Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this
description.  Rather, we have labored as outsiders only.  We have not
been privy to any "inside" information.  Quite the opposite in fact.  We
have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable requests
for information by AFRINIC staff.

Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our reasonable
requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.  Exactly
such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four other
Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists upon
request.  When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such unredacted
WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were rejected
out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved policy
was cited as the basis for the denial.

At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate explanation for
this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to be
granted at long last.  Certain portions of my research cannot be completed
without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved basis for
the rejection of such requests.


P.P.S.  As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the
numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place.  I feel
compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively been
double-victimized in at least two specific instances.

First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large IPv4
blocks "liberated" from its free pool.  Secondarily and even more insultingly
however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also arranged
to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be associated
with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other
legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired IPv4
allocations.

I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy 168.80.0.0/15 block,
registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the non-legacy
196.16.0.0/14 block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization.  These
blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six million
U.S. dollars.

As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD
mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as MEMBER-ONLY,
as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold any
actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees to
AFRINIC.

I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in this
regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it does
appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have -both-
stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for years
on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be due
on these IPv4 assignments.

Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further clarification
with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have been
collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned, for
any year since their allocation to and association with the organizations
noted.




From rfg at tristatelogic.com  Fri Dec  6 01:24:26 2019
From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette)
Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 17:24:26 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
In-Reply-To: <6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <19435.1575595466@segfault.tristatelogic.com>

In message <6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com>, 
Isabel Odida <isabel.odida at gmail.com> wrote:

>I know what sparked this story.

If you have something to say, then you have our attention and the floor.
Please proceed.


Regards,
rfg



From jordi.palet at consulintel.es  Fri Dec  6 09:04:06 2019
From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)
Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 10:04:06 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
In-Reply-To: <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5@gmail.com>
References: <11702.1575480229@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
 <ea8dc349-e2dc-2a8c-eb0e-ab85139edf6a@gmail.com>
 <9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16@seacom.mu>
 <2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3@gmail.com>
 <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B@consulintel.es>

Hi Sunday, all,

 

I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let me tell why.

 

I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My first AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly after, during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could contribute to the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and joining Ernest in his trips to do the Registration Services training so I do IPv6 trainings.

 

Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos, I was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the Madrid Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from Sunday, I could resolve that on the next day and flight again to do the training.

 

My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that, and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been doing those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been able to take advantage of that.

 

The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as well as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much together, you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost 15 years. Of course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a hidden face. As humans, we all have positive and negative things. But I?m really shocked, I still resist to believe it.

 

I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the position of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use your own name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe someone,? may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly and non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean he is still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or something similar.

 

Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents. If you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be enough.

 

So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation, and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and involvement an all this.

 

Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal interest. My only interest is to know the *real true* and I?m sure everybody agrees on that.

 

Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so no doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very thankful for that.

 

Regards,

Jordi

@jordipalet

 

 

 

El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <sfolayan at gmail.com> escribi?:

 

It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy space.

The community has been informed that there is already some internal investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are established, the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for their deeds.

I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7 years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active use, why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for the common good?

For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.

While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and intellect.

Sunday. 

 

On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:

Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space. 

 

I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.

 

It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome. 

 

Mike



On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:

 

Completely agree with Sunday.

Mark.

On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:

Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA? 

I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa. 

Thanks. 

Sunday. 

On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: 


I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following 
news story. 

https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html 
  I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I only 
wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen 
is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved. 
    Regards, 
rfg 


_______________________________________________ 
Community-Discuss mailing list 
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net 
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss 

 

_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

 



_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
-- 
--------------------------------------------------
Sunday Adekunle Folayan
Managing Director
General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
---------------------------------------------------
_______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss 



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From sfolayan at gmail.com  Fri Dec  6 09:16:03 2019
From: sfolayan at gmail.com (Sunday Folayan)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 10:16:03 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
In-Reply-To: <18818.1575585898@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
References: <18818.1575585898@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
Message-ID: <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235@gmail.com>

Dear Mr Guilmette,

Regrettably, I do not monitor the press, but selected channels such as 
this list. It seems I got your attention, or you got my attention, or we 
both got each other's attention. Let us therefore maximize the possession.

Important and interesting questions, that you have raised in this email. 
Let us put some punch in it. Kindly change the TO: field to 
ceo at afrinic.net, and cc the Community just to make sure it is not 
ignored, then resend it. I am sure the CEO will answer all the questions 
you here posed to me. Pity he has to start his tenure with these hard 
nuts and curveballs, but he is capable. He speaks for the Company, not me.

I am equally sure that the Community appreciates the great work done, 
and no one supports the exposed fraud. You are a stakeholder, and not 
some casual bystander so please note this. What you conveniently 
ignored, is that the #1 accused company insider is the eye of the 
company on the policy lists, where you raised the issues.

I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should 
conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more 
honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking stakeholder. 
It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.

My use of the term "Whistleblowers" is appropriate, as I looked at one 
of your reference links, and indeed, someone confirmed to you privately 
that your hunch is right. If you do not claim the honour, they should, 
because you rightly built on their work!

Great job you are doing.

Have a great day.

Sunday.

On 05/12/2019 23:44, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> In message <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>,
> Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The community has been informed that there is already some internal
>> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
>> done.
> Mr. Folayan,
>
> These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,
> 2019, a full three months ago.  Since that time there has not been a
> single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,
> or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague assurances
> that these matters are being looked into.
>
> Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns
> about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full
> three years ago.
>
>      https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html
>      https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html
>      https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html
>
> I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again
> repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,
> albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention
> paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any
> concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.
>
>      https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html
>      https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html
>      https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html
>
> At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly
> in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive
> issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to
> entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it
> were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the
> courageous reporting of MyBroadband.co.za.  Neither the board nor
> the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any
> clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will
> either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders
> and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive
> any of the findings that it may reach.  And yet despite having had
> either three full months or three full years to look into these
> matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and
> despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming
> from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel patience.
>
> This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the
> community's patience to come to an end?  Does the community have any
> assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another
> three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield
> anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the
> current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions
> of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?
>
> On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at long
> last be forthcoming?
>
>> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
>> established, the law should take its course and people should stand
>> accountable for their deeds.
> This assertion on your part begs four further questions:
>
> 1)  Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been presented
> in the MyBroadband.co.za article, the majority of which were drawn from
> publicly available sources including open government records, what more
> will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and intentions
> are established"?  What parts of the abundant documentary evidence already
> presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?
>
> 2)  If, as asserted in the MyBroadband.co.za article, it can be persuasively
> demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in fact
> purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that AFRINIC
> itself is one of the aggrieved parties?  And if so, would you hope and
> expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and
> all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?
>
> 3)  Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and endemic
> within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do you
> have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all
> likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?
>
> 4)  What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-
> documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks from
> AFRINIC's own free pool?  Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed by
> AFRINIC?  Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever they
> may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten booty
> on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?
>
>> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
>> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
>> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover
>> the manipulations.
> On this point, you and I are in complete agreement.  "The system", such
> as it is, is quite self-evidently broken.  But this raises the further
> question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at AFRINIC,
> while all of this was going on.  Is it even plausible that a single bad
> actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars
> worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a
> several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC
> staff even noticed any of this?
>
>> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
>> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.
> See above.  Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced with
> respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself.  No other
> single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much
> valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself.  And yet we have, as yet, no
> clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any staff
> member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone
> that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated
> by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.
>
> If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new dictionary.
>
>> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
>> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
>> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
>> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
>> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our
>> time and intellect.
> See above.  With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we
> may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"?  I have
> so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any
> document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member of
> AFRINIC.  In fact, quite the opposite.  I see that a purported three
> month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth publicly
> reporting on so far.  I see an attempt to shift the blame for this colossal
> and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders
> while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of
> AFRINIC itself.  I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action
> will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a
> backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a general
> disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific
> national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.
>
> For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances misplaced,
> Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.
> The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and
> to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or placed
> under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to all.
> AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding responsibility.
>
> I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and effectively
> remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still ongoing
> after-effects.  I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now
> evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the carpet
> will no longer be considered a vialble option.
>
>
> Regards,
> rfg
>
>
> P.S.  I must strenuously object to your use of the word "whistleblower" in
> this context Mr. Folayan.  That term is usually used in reference to some
> insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed
> first-hand some malfeasance.  Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this
> description.  Rather, we have labored as outsiders only.  We have not
> been privy to any "inside" information.  Quite the opposite in fact.  We
> have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable requests
> for information by AFRINIC staff.
>
> Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our reasonable
> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.  Exactly
> such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four other
> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists upon
> request.  When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such unredacted
> WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were rejected
> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved policy
> was cited as the basis for the denial.
>
> At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate explanation for
> this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to be
> granted at long last.  Certain portions of my research cannot be completed
> without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved basis for
> the rejection of such requests.
>
>
> P.P.S.  As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the
> numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place.  I feel
> compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively been
> double-victimized in at least two specific instances.
>
> First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large IPv4
> blocks "liberated" from its free pool.  Secondarily and even more insultingly
> however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also arranged
> to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be associated
> with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other
> legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired IPv4
> allocations.
>
> I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy 168.80.0.0/15 block,
> registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the non-legacy
> 196.16.0.0/14 block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization.  These
> blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six million
> U.S. dollars.
>
> As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD
> mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as MEMBER-ONLY,
> as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold any
> actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees to
> AFRINIC.
>
> I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in this
> regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it does
> appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have -both-
> stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for years
> on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be due
> on these IPv4 assignments.
>
> Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further clarification
> with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have been
> collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned, for
> any year since their allocation to and association with the organizations
> noted.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

-- 
--------------------------------------------------
Sunday Adekunle Folayan
Managing Director
General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
---------------------------------------------------




From rfg at tristatelogic.com  Fri Dec  6 10:07:01 2019
From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette)
Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:07:01 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
In-Reply-To: <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <21084.1575626821@segfault.tristatelogic.com>

Mr. Folayan,

Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful response.

At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and beyond
what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.


In message <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>, 
Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:

>I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should 
>conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more 
>honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking stakeholder. 
>It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.

Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.

Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to see
the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC.  That is quite certainly not a
goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as
you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder
should wish for.  AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global
Internet governance.  I cannot even envision things as being otherwise.
No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a
few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second.  And to use an
even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing
smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more than
I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the plains.

If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was being
formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested
that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already
sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it, being
preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere.  Now I may stand on the comfortable
shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but
I do not question the utility of the journey.

The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think, matters
of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose.  Time will
tell if that is an accurate assesment.


Regards,
rfg



From sfolayan at gmail.com  Fri Dec  6 10:14:31 2019
From: sfolayan at gmail.com (Sunday Folayan)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:14:31 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
In-Reply-To: <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B@consulintel.es>
References: <11702.1575480229@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
 <ea8dc349-e2dc-2a8c-eb0e-ab85139edf6a@gmail.com>
 <9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16@seacom.mu>
 <2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3@gmail.com>
 <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5@gmail.com>
 <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B@consulintel.es>
Message-ID: <8d06cf43-7c72-07df-e510-96917cd8e0ed@gmail.com>

Good points Jordi, and thanks for the throwback on the very many amazing 
sacrifices we all made, to grow the Internet in Africa.

I will resist asking Ernest to defend himself here, We are not 
constituted as a competent jury, neither do we want to compromise the 
ongoing investigations.

Questions are appropriate, so will be his own admissions or rebuttals, 
when the investigations are completed.

I may be wrong, but that is my own expectations and position.

Sunday.

On 06/12/2019 10:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote:
>
> Hi Sunday, all,
>
> I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let 
> me tell why.
>
> I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My 
> first AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly 
> after, during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could 
> contribute to the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and 
> joining Ernest in his trips to do the Registration Services training 
> so I do IPv6 trainings.
>
> Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos, 
> I was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the 
> Madrid Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from 
> Sunday, I could resolve that on the next day and flight again to do 
> the training.
>
> My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that, 
> and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been 
> doing those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been 
> able to take advantage of that.
>
> The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as 
> well as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much 
> together, you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost 
> 15 years. Of course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a 
> hidden face. As humans, we all have positive and negative things. But 
> I?m really shocked, I still resist to believe it.
>
> I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the 
> position of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think 
> you will use your own name for registering companies, or instead you 
> will bribe someone, may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your 
> family name to appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly 
> and non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean 
> he is still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or 
> something similar.
>
> Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents. 
> If you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be enough.
>
> So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation, 
> and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and 
> involvement an all this.
>
> Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal 
> interest. My only interest is to know the **real true** and I?m sure 
> everybody agrees on that.
>
> Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so 
> no doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very 
> thankful for that.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jordi
>
> @jordipalet
>
> El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <sfolayan at gmail.com 
> <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>> escribi?:
>
> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway 
> suggest that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only 
> on legacy space.
>
> The community has been informed that there is already some internal 
> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things 
> done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are 
> established, the law should take its course and people should stand 
> accountable for their deeds.
>
> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund 
> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 
> 7 years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to 
> discover the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or 
> in active use, why would or should they not have been returned to the 
> Registry for the common good?
>
> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their 
> legal department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with 
> gusto by now.
>
> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf 
> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, 
> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should 
> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are 
> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of 
> our time and intellect.
>
> Sunday.
>
> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
>
>     Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there
>     appears to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy
>     space.
>
>     I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the
>     problem and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>
>     It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
>     space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
>     mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
>     legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then
>     moving legacy space under those processes may not have the desired
>     outcome.
>
>     Mike
>
>
>
>         On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu
>         <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
>
>         Completely agree with Sunday.
>
>         Mark.
>
>         On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>
>             Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically
>             ancient squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet
>             in Africa, AfriNIC Services and bringing legacy spaces
>             under some form of RSA?
>
>             I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let
>             us see how to help and empower the people doing useful
>             work for Africa.
>
>             Thanks.
>
>             Sunday.
>
>             On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>
>                 I hope you all will take the time to read and think
>                 about the following
>                 news story.
>
>                 https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>
>                 ? I will have more to say about this in due course.?
>                 For the moment, I only
>                 wish to say that the investigation undertaken by
>                 myself and Jan Vermeulen
>                 is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>                 ? ? Regards,
>                 rfg
>
>
>                 _______________________________________________
>                 Community-Discuss mailing list
>                 Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>                 <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>                 https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         Community-Discuss mailing list
>         Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>         <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>         https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>
>     Community-Discuss mailing list
>
>     Community-Discuss at afrinic.net  <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>
>     https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
> -- 
> --------------------------------------------------
> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> Managing Director
> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> Email:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng  <mailto:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng>,sfolayan at gmail.com  <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss 
> mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net 
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
> **********************************************
> IPv4 is over
> Are you ready for the new Internet ?
> http://www.theipv6company.com
> The IPv6 Company
>
> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged 
> or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive 
> use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty 
> authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of 
> this information, even if partially, including attached files, is 
> strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you 
> are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, 
> distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if 
> partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be 
> considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original 
> sender to inform about this communication and delete it.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

-- 
--------------------------------------------------
Sunday Adekunle Folayan
Managing Director
General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
---------------------------------------------------

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From Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net  Fri Dec  6 10:17:52 2019
From: Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net (Omo Oaiya)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 12:17:52 +0200
Subject: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
In-Reply-To: <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B@consulintel.es>
References: <11702.1575480229@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
 <ea8dc349-e2dc-2a8c-eb0e-ab85139edf6a@gmail.com>
 <9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16@seacom.mu>
 <2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3@gmail.com>
 <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5@gmail.com>
 <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B@consulintel.es>
Message-ID: <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88@wacren.net>



> On 6 Dec 2019, at 11:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss <community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation, and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and involvement an all this.
>  


:-)  Might as well setup a confession booth and provide absolution of souls.  On a serious note, we need a proper investigation.  Let?s wait to hear from the CEO

Omo





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From sfolayan at gmail.com  Fri Dec  6 10:21:40 2019
From: sfolayan at gmail.com (Sunday Folayan)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:21:40 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
In-Reply-To: <21084.1575626821@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
References: <21084.1575626821@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
Message-ID: <c071ab53-ba47-a98a-8e28-d97187ae8c10@gmail.com>

Dear Mr Guilmette,

On 06/12/2019 11:07, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> Mr. Folayan,
>
> Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful response.
>
> At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and beyond
> what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.
>
>
> In message <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>,
> Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should
>> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more
>> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking stakeholder.
>> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.
> Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.
>
> Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to see
> the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC.  That is quite certainly not a
> goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as
> you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder
> should wish for.  AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global
> Internet governance.  I cannot even envision things as being otherwise.
> No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a
> few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second.  And to use an
> even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing
> smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more than
> I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the plains.
>
> If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was being
> formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested
> that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already
> sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it, being
> preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere.  Now I may stand on the comfortable
> shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but
> I do not question the utility of the journey.
>
> The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think, matters
> of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose.  Time will
> tell if that is an accurate assesment.


This is most assuring and comforting at the same time.

If I have sounded off-key, please accept my sincere apologies, and thank 
you very much for the good job you have done for the community so far. 
History will never forget your role and progressive disposition at this 
point in time.

When AfriNIC was being formed, the challenges of today, were not 
envisioned in the very many ways that they now present themselves. 
Africa has come a long way. Unfortunately, there are still many more 
oceans to cross, but we will all band together as a purposeful fleet. 
That is how we can all weather the storms that may come, but sure they 
will come.

With kind Regards ...

Sunday.





From rfg at tristatelogic.com  Fri Dec  6 10:58:27 2019
From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette)
Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:58:27 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
In-Reply-To: <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B@consulintel.es>
Message-ID: <21283.1575629907@segfault.tristatelogic.com>

In message <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es>, 
JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es> wrote:

>I also believe that he is a smart guy.

I would not dispute that characterization in the slightest.

>So, put yourself in the position of 
>a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use your o
>wn name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe someone,=C2=A0
> may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to appear in an
>y documents? I feel this is really silly and non-understandable.

And yet it seemed to work, for years on end, with no one raising so much
as an eyebrow because nobody seriously investigated or seriously looked
at all of the relevant corporate documents and WHOIS records and, in
particular, the historical WHOIS records, including but not limited to
these ones:

ORG-AI2-AFRINIC     https://pastebin.com/raw/7rqfP1LD
ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC   https://pastebin.com/raw/Nx79QkgB
ORG-IA41-AFRINIC    https://pastebin.com/raw/ynEXMyCP
ORG-ZZ139-AFRINIC   https://pastebin.com/raw/GX5egcbW
ORG-ZZ23-AFRINIC    https://pastebin.com/raw/Yu8K9z6N

I have been chasing down miscreants on the Internet for more than 20 years
now.  One of the lessons I have learned in that time is that none of them
are ten feet tall, and the majority of them absolutely suck at OPSEC.  It
is almost as if some part of them is deluding their own brains into the
false belief that what they are doing is not really wrong, in some
sense, and that they are somehow actually entitled to the stuff they are
stealing, and that thus, at some level, they don't actually need to hide
what they are doing all that throughly, because just as White House Chief
of Staff Mick Mulvaney did not long ago... much to the shock of everyone...
if they are ever caught and confronted they assume that they will just say
"Yea.  So?  We do that all of the time.  Get over it!"

>So maybe
>somebody used him, which doesn=E2=80=99t mean he is still guilty =E2=80=9Cin
>vigilando=E2=80=9D because he trusted anyone else, or something similar.

It's a nice thought, and you are a generous person to allow this possibility
Jordi.  All I can say is that other information, not yet made public,
appears to rule out the possibility that Mr. Byaruhanga was either an
unwitting stooge or a convenient fall guy.

>Do we believe in =E2=80=9Cpresumption of innocence=E2=80=9D? I do, despite 
>documents. If you don=E2=80=99t know the complete background, documents may
>not be enough.

I agree.

That having been said, I hope that you will, as I have, spend some time
carefully scrutinizing both the current and historical WHOIS records
associated with the ORGanizations and the IPv4 blocks listed in the two
tables in Jan's article.  If you do that, I think that you will be, as
I was, hard pressed to explain all of the quite glaring anomalies in
any way that does not involve a great deal of very deliberate malfesance
on somebody's part.  Once you are convinced of that, then the question
becomes:  Who is responsible?  And it is at that point that the various
official governmental corporate registration records would seem to become
very relevant.

>So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation, and
>may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and involvement
>an all this.

I would like to echo that sentiment.

Jan Vermeulen and myself have tried, repeatedly, and over some significant
time now to reach him, both via voice, at a number of different phone numbers
that we have identified as being associated with him, and also via email,
at various of his known email addresses, and we have been utterly unable to
do so.  We both very much look forward to speaking with him and getting his
side of the story, if he has one.

That having been said, we cannot be blamed, I think, for reaching certain
reasonable conclusions when Jan's industry sources informed him, less than
a day after I had attempted to confront Ernest, via email, with the facts
arrayed against him, that he had abruptly resigned his position at AFRINIC
after 15 years on the job.

His abrupt resignation was and remains his only apparent response to our
inquiries.


Regards,
rfg




From rfg at tristatelogic.com  Fri Dec  6 11:16:57 2019
From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette)
Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 03:16:57 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
In-Reply-To: <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88@wacren.net>
Message-ID: <21648.1575631017@segfault.tristatelogic.com>

In message <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net>, 
Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net> wrote:

>On a serious note, we need a proper investigation.  Let's
>wait to hear from the CEO

Have any of us been doing otherwise, for lo these past three months now?

Have we been afforded any other choice in the matter?

Can AFRINIC clean its own stables?


Regards,
rfg



From wayne at domains.co.za  Fri Dec  6 11:29:56 2019
From: wayne at domains.co.za (Wayne Diamond)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:29:56 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
In-Reply-To: <21648.1575631017@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
References: <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88@wacren.net>
 <21648.1575631017@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
Message-ID: <AM0PR02MB39568A8265950E9C7FA494B4FA5F0@AM0PR02MB3956.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com>

Hi

The problem I seem to be having at the moment with AfriNic is that is seems to be stumbling from one crisis to the next crisis with promises made by both the board and the new CEO to investigate/ report back/ resolve/ mediate etc.

I accept that the new CEO tenure has just started and that he has to figure out what is happening in these muddy waters and the CEO has given his undertaking to the community to investigate / report back and given a multitude commitments but the reality is that that these communication seem to have almost dried up.

There have been so many issues brought up by various people relating to everything from theft to corporate governance at AfriNic that the community can no longer wait for the odd communication from the CEO and/ or Board and that we the community are now needing the CEO / Board to start providing more regular & constant updates that would show that we as a community should trust or should begin to trust the CEO / Board that these issues are being handled correctly, legally and without fear or favour. 

We seem to constantly be told that there are investigations happening but never seem to be given clear completion dates nor seem to be given answers after completion of said investigations. Investigation seem to be forever ongoing with no clear deadline for completion or extension of deadline if not complete by said date.

Every issue always seems to be confidential, yet the community is not clearly informed of outcomes of these investigations and that in itself is where the issue of trust starts failing.

As there are so many issues that seem to be ongoing, I would ask if the CEO / Board would start sending out regular communications at least twice monthly on updates / outcomes of any issues that are outstanding. These don't have to be long but could cover various points under review.

In my opinion, communication and trust is what is missing at the moment, these need to be restored by the CEO/Board 


Wayne








-----Original Message-----
From: Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg at tristatelogic.com> 
Sent: 06 December 2019 01:17 PM
To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

In message <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net>,
Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net> wrote:

>On a serious note, we need a proper investigation.  Let's wait to hear 
>from the CEO

Have any of us been doing otherwise, for lo these past three months now?

Have we been afforded any other choice in the matter?

Can AFRINIC clean its own stables?


Regards,
rfg

_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss



From rfg at tristatelogic.com  Fri Dec  6 11:37:02 2019
From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette)
Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 03:37:02 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
In-Reply-To: <c071ab53-ba47-a98a-8e28-d97187ae8c10@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <21738.1575632222@segfault.tristatelogic.com>

In message <c071ab53-ba47-a98a-8e28-d97187ae8c10 at gmail.com>, 
Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:

>If I have sounded off-key, please accept my sincere apologies...

Not at all, and no apologies are either needed or warranted.


Regards,
rfg



From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com  Fri Dec  6 11:47:35 2019
From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:47:35 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
In-Reply-To: <AM0PR02MB39568A8265950E9C7FA494B4FA5F0@AM0PR02MB3956.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com>
References: <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88@wacren.net>
 <21648.1575631017@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
 <AM0PR02MB39568A8265950E9C7FA494B4FA5F0@AM0PR02MB3956.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <DBBPR03MB54159632141EE13EA566329AEE5F0@DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>

I also have significant concerns about what was said here.

Fact - the issue of stolen IP address space was raised with AfriNIC - AFTER Alan left - and a block was recovered.  I have email trails and personally had conversations with board members post the leaving of the former CEO about this.
Fact - the board tried to put this issue all on the former CEO - they were aware of the issue long before the latest article - to say otherwise - can be easily disproved.

Furthermore - in the board report in relation to the auditors - I acknowledge the boards right to appoint new auditors to fill a casual vacancy.  I find it very difficult to reconcile though why, if they have a letter, that simply makes vague reference to a risk, that resulted in the resignation of an audit firm - with nothing more in the letter than that, why this board refuses to share said letter with this community.  Is it not the right of the community to understand and see the risks stated by the auditors the members appointed?

In addition to this - The law lays out a very clear way in which an auditor can resign - it is entirely in their rights to resign - however - reasons must be given - and the process for the auditor to resign post appointment is very different from the process under which they choose not to be re-appointed - they do not have to give any reasons for not wanting to be reappointed - providing they give 28 days notice before the AGMM.  This was not done - so why is the board - if as they claim - sitting without reasons - not enforcing the companies act to get clarification on those reasons - is a risk that is so substantial as to require an auditor to resign - not substantial enough to justify far more than a polite request which as they claim is going unacknowledged?

This doesn't add up - if an auditor is resigning - the number of times you see that happen in the market is so few and far between, and in almost every case I have found looking into this - it signified a massive and profound problem - because by resigning - in my view - the auditor is sending a signal to the members - either they cannot evaluate the risk and be able to state that the company will be a viable going concern going forward - or - they were in a position where even the qualification of the report was not an option.  This is NOT something any auditor will do lightly - ever - and it is absolutely incumbent on the board as per the bylaws to diligently and without delay seek those reasons and disclose them.

Section 3 of the bylaws mandates the board to communicate on all matters relevant to the company - and quite frankly, if the board doesn't have the answers as to why the auditors left - it is their duty to go and FIND those reasons - and if need be compel a statement on those reasons - and then communicate it to this community.  To simply bury the issue by saying they are appointing another auditor - doesn't cut it - the answers have to be supplied - what was so bad that the auditors couldn't continue

As Wayne said - over the last few years, we have seen scandal after scandal with AfriNIC - and each time - there is another one on the horizon.  Yes we have a new CEO - and yes - I applaud him for trying here - but unfortunately - this community has over the last 2 years seen enough that the time for platitudes and telling us to wait a little longer is over.   The time for answers is now.  As for hearing Afrinic is following the law about appointing the auditors - we get that - no one disputes that - however - that doesn't answer the fundamental question - why will the board not disclose the resignation letter - and if the resignation letter does not detail the risks - why has the board not attempted to compel the answers.   The appointment of new auditors is NOT a risk mitigation or a risk elimination - the risks that caused PWC to walk are very clearly still present - this community has a right to know what those are.


Andrew


From: Wayne Diamond <wayne at domains.co.za>
Sent: Friday, 6 December 2019 14:30
To: Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg at tristatelogic.com>; General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

Hi

The problem I seem to be having at the moment with AfriNic is that is seems to be stumbling from one crisis to the next crisis with promises made by both the board and the new CEO to investigate/ report back/ resolve/ mediate etc.

I accept that the new CEO tenure has just started and that he has to figure out what is happening in these muddy waters and the CEO has given his undertaking to the community to investigate / report back and given a multitude commitments but the reality is that that these communication seem to have almost dried up.

There have been so many issues brought up by various people relating to everything from theft to corporate governance at AfriNic that the community can no longer wait for the odd communication from the CEO and/ or Board and that we the community are now needing the CEO / Board to start providing more regular & constant updates that would show that we as a community should trust or should begin to trust the CEO / Board that these issues are being handled correctly, legally and without fear or favour.

We seem to constantly be told that there are investigations happening but never seem to be given clear completion dates nor seem to be given answers after completion of said investigations. Investigation seem to be forever ongoing with no clear deadline for completion or extension of deadline if not complete by said date.

Every issue always seems to be confidential, yet the community is not clearly informed of outcomes of these investigations and that in itself is where the issue of trust starts failing.

As there are so many issues that seem to be ongoing, I would ask if the CEO / Board would start sending out regular communications at least twice monthly on updates / outcomes of any issues that are outstanding. These don't have to be long but could cover various points under review.

In my opinion, communication and trust is what is missing at the moment, these need to be restored by the CEO/Board


Wayne








-----Original Message-----
From: Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg at tristatelogic.com<mailto:rfg at tristatelogic.com>>
Sent: 06 December 2019 01:17 PM
To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC

In message <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net<mailto:14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net>>,
Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net<mailto:Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>> wrote:

>On a serious note, we need a proper investigation. Let's wait to hear
>from the CEO

Have any of us been doing otherwise, for lo these past three months now?

Have we been afforded any other choice in the matter?

Can AFRINIC clean its own stables?


Regards,
rfg

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https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>

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From Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net  Fri Dec  6 12:06:03 2019
From: Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net (Omo Oaiya)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 14:06:03 +0200
Subject: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
In-Reply-To: <21648.1575631017@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
References: <21648.1575631017@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
Message-ID: <ADB4B4B1-1713-4532-ACF5-E42A2EC99F59@wacren.net>



> On 6 Dec 2019, at 13:16, Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg at tristatelogic.com> wrote:
> 
> In message <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net>, 
> Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net> wrote:
> 
>> On a serious note, we need a proper investigation.  Let's
>> wait to hear from the CEO
> 
> Have any of us been doing otherwise, for lo these past three months now?
> 
> Have we been afforded any other choice in the matter?

I am not sure why you seem to be on the defensive.   You have made some pretty damning allegations and provided some data to support them.  No one wants AFRINIC resources stolen by anyone so every sane person would be appreciative and want to get to the bottom of the matter.

> 
> Can AFRINIC clean its own stables?
> 


I read from the press link you shared and on the member's list that AFRINIC is conducting an internal investigation as would be expected and that it will be concluded shortly.  

We have a new CEO and as far as I understand from the members list, the investigation has external support from a sister RIR.  Unless you have evidence to suggest otherwise, I believe AFRINIC will sort this out and await the outcome.

Omo




From ousmane at musatesa.net  Fri Dec  6 12:48:59 2019
From: ousmane at musatesa.net (ousmane at musatesa.net)
Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 13:48:59 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
In-Reply-To: <19435.1575595466@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
References: <6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D@gmail.com>
 <19435.1575595466@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
Message-ID: <20191206134859.Horde.i2gAA8PPloDy63wnG7JV_ao@musatesa.net>

Please ISabel, go ahead for the sake of clarity and transparency!

As community, it's better to seek "healing this terrible wound" ASAP  
for the credibility of AfriNIC. And, for that every contribution is  
essential as if at all it helps to understand better the problem!

But, all this will be irrelevant in lack of an "official statement"  
from the appropriate(s) bodies of AfriNIC!

All the best

Ousmane


"Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com> a ?crit?:

> In message <6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com>,
> Isabel Odida <isabel.odida at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I know what sparked this story.
>
> If you have something to say, then you have our attention and the floor.
> Please proceed.
>
>
> Regards,
> rfg
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss






From rfg at tristatelogic.com  Fri Dec  6 13:21:53 2019
From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette)
Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 05:21:53 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
In-Reply-To: <DBBPR03MB54159632141EE13EA566329AEE5F0@DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <22284.1575638513@segfault.tristatelogic.com>

In message <DBBPR03MB54159632141EE13EA566329AEE5F0 at DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.
outlook.com>, Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com> wrote:

>This doesn't add up - if an auditor is resigning - the number of times you
>see that happen in the market is so few and far between, and in almost every
>case I have found looking into this - it signified a massive and profound
>problem - because by resigning - in my view - the auditor is sending a signal
>to the members - either they cannot evaluate the risk and be able to state
>that the company will be a viable going concern going forward - or - they
>were in a position where even the qualification of the report was not an
>option.  This is NOT something any auditor will do lightly - ever - and it
>is absolutely incumbent on the board as per the bylaws to diligently and
>without delay seek those reasons and disclose them.

>The appointment
>of new auditors is NOT a risk mitigation or a risk elimination - the risks
>that caused PWC to walk are very clearly still present - this community has
>a right to know what those are.

For whatever little it may be worth, I am in complete agreement with Mr.
Alston on the above points.

There is something very very wrong if the auditor fires its own client.
Whatever it is, it will come out eventually, either through leaks or
otherwise.  The Board would be well advised to get out in front of this,
as painful or embarassing as doing so may be.   Opacity with respect to
whatever funny business has gone on with the company books is simply not
an option.  The cards will be laid face up on the table, either with or
without the consent of the board.  The only choices available to the
individual board members are to either be part of the solution or to be
judged as having been a part of the problem.


Regards,
rfg



From rfg at tristatelogic.com  Fri Dec  6 13:32:44 2019
From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette)
Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 05:32:44 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
In-Reply-To: <ADB4B4B1-1713-4532-ACF5-E42A2EC99F59@wacren.net>
Message-ID: <22335.1575639164@segfault.tristatelogic.com>

In message <ADB4B4B1-1713-4532-ACF5-E42A2EC99F59 at wacren.net>, 
Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net> wrote:

>I read from the press link you shared and on the member's list that
>AFRINIC is conducting an internal investigation as would be expected and
>that it will be concluded shortly.

Swell.  When?

Give me a date certain by which this matter will receive a full and
formal response from the board or the CEO.

May the membership and the community expect a concrete response on this
matter by, say, Saint Valentine's Day, 2020?  By Nelson Mandela Day, 2020?
Later?

More to the point, can you tell me when Mr. Byaruhanga's currently scheduled
last day on the job will be?  Can you tell me whether he still has unfettered
read/write access to the WHOIS data base as we speak?


Regards,
rfg



From Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net  Fri Dec  6 13:42:07 2019
From: Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net (Omo Oaiya)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 15:42:07 +0200
Subject: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
In-Reply-To: <22335.1575639164@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
References: <22335.1575639164@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
Message-ID: <3B924192-A031-4DC5-BCDF-226EB6287265@wacren.net>



> On 6 Dec 2019, at 15:32, Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg at tristatelogic.com> wrote:
> 
> In message <ADB4B4B1-1713-4532-ACF5-E42A2EC99F59 at wacren.net>, 
> Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net> wrote:
> 
>> I read from the press link you shared and on the member's list that
>> AFRINIC is conducting an internal investigation as would be expected and
>> that it will be concluded shortly.
> 
> Swell.  When?
> 
> Give me a date certain by which this matter will receive a full and
> formal response from the board or the CEO.
> 
> May the membership and the community expect a concrete response on this
> matter by, say, Saint Valentine's Day, 2020?  By Nelson Mandela Day, 2020?
> Later?
> 
> More to the point, can you tell me when Mr. Byaruhanga's currently scheduled
> last day on the job will be?  Can you tell me whether he still has unfettered
> read/write access to the WHOIS data base as we speak?
> 


Now, I am sure you are deliberately trying to be sensational :-).   Don?t detract from the usefulness of your efforts with the hounding.

Sunday already gave you good advice.   These are questions for AFRINIC the company rather than AFRINIC the community.    Send such questions to the CEO and keep the community in the loop.   I speak for myself but I am sure everyone is interested in the outcome.

Omo









From mark.tinka at seacom.mu  Fri Dec  6 13:53:25 2019
From: mark.tinka at seacom.mu (Mark Tinka)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 15:53:25 +0200
Subject: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
In-Reply-To: <3B924192-A031-4DC5-BCDF-226EB6287265@wacren.net>
References: <22335.1575639164@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
 <3B924192-A031-4DC5-BCDF-226EB6287265@wacren.net>
Message-ID: <92e5dcf6-2e3e-4745-f02d-69a38afa9a16@seacom.mu>



On 6/Dec/19 15:42, Omo Oaiya wrote:
>
> Now, I am sure you are deliberately trying to be sensational :-).   Don?t detract from the usefulness of your efforts with the hounding.
>
> Sunday already gave you good advice.   These are questions for AFRINIC the company rather than AFRINIC the community.    Send such questions to the CEO and keep the community in the loop.   I speak for myself but I am sure everyone is interested in the outcome.

Good advice is, clearly, hard to take.

Mark.



From muyiwacaleb at gmail.com  Fri Dec  6 15:46:33 2019
From: muyiwacaleb at gmail.com (Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele)
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 16:46:33 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1831.1575631030.5925.community-discuss@afrinic.net>
References: <mailman.1831.1575631030.5925.community-discuss@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <CAL_ZvK4BWG8QAkOn=9aJKzwsDgG3GNsWVfnbhbGtFWxAnXz9kg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Ronald,

So I read where this comment below was attributed to you.










*>?Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our
reasonable> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS
database.  Exactly> such unredacted database dumps *are* provided by all of
the four other> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and
journalists upon> request.  When we submitted repeated requests for exactly
such unredacted> WHOIS database dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our
requests were rejected> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any
community-approved policy> was cited as the basis for the denial.?*
While not taking brief for AFRINIC or any of its staff, I feel you should
know that AFRINIC?s operation is also being governed by Mauritius data
protection law.
Mauritius regulates data protection under the Data Protection Act 2017 (DPA
2017 or Act), proclaimed through Proclamation No. 3 of 2018, effective
January 15, 2018. The Act repeals and replaces the Data Protection Act
2004, so as to align with the European Union General Data Protection
Regulation 2016/679 (GDPR).

Even if you are not familiar with Mauritius law, the EU GDPR which is more
popular should tell you the implication of revealing a WHOIS database to a
non-state prosecutorial actor like yourself who does not have a court
warrant to see the redacted sections you seek. Please correct me if I?m
wrong in my legal analysis of your request.

Perhaps, isn?t it time for the community to revisit the Internet Number
Resources review policy
<https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal> which was not on
the docket for policy at this just-concluded meeting?
https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal

We might be doing something right this time if that policy will allow for a
diligent review of resources including the legacy ones.

Regards

Caleb Ogundele



On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 12:17 PM <community-discuss-request at afrinic.net>
wrote:

> Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to
>         community-discuss at afrinic.net
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>         https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>
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>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)
>    2. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mike Silber)
>    3. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Elkins)
>    4. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Andrew Alston)
>    5. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)
>    6. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
>    7. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)
>    8. [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC (Sylvain Baya)
>    9. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Isabel Odida)
>   10. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
>   11. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
>   12. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)
>   13. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
>   14. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
>   15. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
>   16. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)
>   17. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
>   18. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
>   19. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:27:42 +0200
> From: Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu>
> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> Message-ID: <9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16 at seacom.mu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Completely agree with Sunday.
>
> Mark.
>
> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >
> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how
> > to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Sunday.
> >
> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
> >> news story.
> >>
> >>
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> >>
> >> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the moment,
> >> I only
> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> >> Vermeulen
> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >> ? ? Regards,
> >> rfg
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >>
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:46:15 +0200
> From: Mike Silber <silber.mike at gmail.com>
> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> Message-ID: <2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>
> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and
> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>
> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then
> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes
> may not have the desired outcome.
>
> Mike
>
> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:
> >
> > Completely agree with Sunday.
> >
> > Mark.
> >
> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >>
> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how
> to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >>
> >> Sunday.
> >>
> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
> following
> >>> news story.
> >>>
> >>>
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> <
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html>
>
> >>>   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
> only
> >>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> Vermeulen
> >>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >>>     Regards,
> >>> rfg
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >>>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:59:57 +0200
> From: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za>
> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> Message-ID: <007bb014-4eb8-157f-5312-f8333782f32f at posix.co.za>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to
> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case (looting
> of non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.
>
> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >
> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >
> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving
> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu
> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
> >>
> >> Mark.
> >>
> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >>>
> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see
> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks.
> >>>
> >>> Sunday.
> >>>
> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
> >>>> following
> >>>> news story.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> >>>>
> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the
> >>>> moment, I only
> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> >>>> Vermeulen
> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >>>> ? ? Regards,
> >>>> rfg
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >>>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> --
>
> Mark James ELKINS? -? Posix Systems - (South) Africa
> mje at posix.co.za?????? Tel: +27.826010496 <tel:+27826010496>
> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
>
> Posix SystemsVCARD for MJ Elkins
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:10:48 +0000
> From: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
> To: "mje at posix.co.za" <mje at posix.co.za>,
>         "community-discuss at afrinic.net" <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> Message-ID:
>         <
> DBBPR03MB5415D6F757C9E3BD1AE2CDE4EE5C0 at DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com
> >
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> I would be very curious to hear from a legal perspective what - if any -
> legal liability AfriNIC has in a situation like this.
>
> The fact is - space has value - and if space is stolen - used for spam or
> whatever else - and the reputation of said space is damaged - it?s value
> decreases.  Now I fully realize that space can be hijacked - and at that
> point potentially the hijackers may hold the liability. However - when the
> space seems to have been stolen and sold off by a staff member of the
> organization that is meant in effect to the curator of the space - I
> question if there is not a liability issue at play if it can be proven that
> due care was not taken to safe guard against the actions taken.
>
> I?m no lawyer though so I would really be interested to know the legal
> perspective - can an rir be held liable to the actions of its staff if it
> did not adequately protect against the actions taken.
>
> Andrew
>
> Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> ________________________________
> From: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za>
> Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 3:59:57 PM
> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>
>
> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to
> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case (looting of
> non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.
>
> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>
> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and
> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>
> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then
> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes
> may not have the desired outcome.
>
> Mike
>
> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu<mailto:
> mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
>
> Completely agree with Sunday.
>
> Mark.
>
> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>
> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to
> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Sunday.
>
> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
> news story.
>
>
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> <
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> >
>   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I only
> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen
> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>     Regards,
> rfg
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
>
>
> --
>
> Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
> mje at posix.co.za<mailto:mje at posix.co.za>       Tel:
> +27.826010496<tel:+27826010496>
> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za<
> https://ftth.posix.co.za>
>
> [Posix            Systems][VCARD for            MJ Elkins]
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 15:11:04 +0200
> From: Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu>
> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> Message-ID: <7fa06e69-5728-f936-ce1d-f471893ccc17 at seacom.mu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I don't disagree with that either.
>
> I am certain AFRINIC are working on this, and I know there will be no
> shortage of queries about this from the field, much to our
> already-clogged e-mail boxes. I don't want to do the jobs of others; no
> one is doing mine for me.
>
> My preferred current focus - your last paragraph, below.
>
> Mark.
>
> On 5/Dec/19 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >
> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >
> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving
> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu
> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
> >>
> >> Mark.
> >>
> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >>>
> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see
> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks.
> >>>
> >>> Sunday.
> >>>
> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
> >>>> following
> >>>> news story.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> >>>>
> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the
> >>>> moment, I only
> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> >>>> Vermeulen
> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >>>> ? ? Regards,
> >>>> rfg
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >>>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 19:54:21 +0100
> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> Message-ID: <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"
>
> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest
> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy
> space.
>
> The community has been informed that there is already some internal
> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
> done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
> established, the law should take its course and people should stand
> accountable for their deeds.
>
> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover
> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active
> use, why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for
> the common good?
>
> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.
>
> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our
> time and intellect.
>
> Sunday.
>
> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >
> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >
> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving
> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu
> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
> >>
> >> Mark.
> >>
> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >>>
> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see
> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks.
> >>>
> >>> Sunday.
> >>>
> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
> >>>> following
> >>>> news story.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> >>>>
> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the
> >>>> moment, I only
> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> >>>> Vermeulen
> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >>>> ? ? Regards,
> >>>> rfg
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >>>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------------
> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> Managing Director
> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:15:59 +0200
> From: Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>
> To: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> Message-ID:
>         <CAG1eoi3w-F2Ui-BfiKmBqYJ=
> srHdvBJx2F5vS2k__asGCVTwVw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I have to agree with this. As shocking and disappointing as the revelations
> might be, this makes the most sense to me.
>
> Omo
>
> On Thu, 5 Dec 2019, 20:56 Sunday Folayan, <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest
> > that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy
> > space.
> >
> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal
> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
> done.
> > I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are established,
> > the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for
> > their deeds.
> >
> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
> > years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover
> > the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active
> use,
> > why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for the
> > common good?
> >
> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
> > department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by
> now.
> >
> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf of
> > the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, with
> > the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather
> > apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for
> > developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and
> > intellect.
> > Sunday.
> >
> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
> >
> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >
> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and
> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >
> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and
> then
> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those
> processes
> > may not have the desired outcome.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:
> >
> > Completely agree with Sunday.
> >
> > Mark.
> >
> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >
> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >
> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to
> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Sunday.
> >
> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >
> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
> > news story.
> >
> >
> >
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> >   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
> > only
> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen
> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >     Regards,
> > rfg
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://
> lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >
> > --
> > --------------------------------------------------
> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> > Managing Director
> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> > Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
> > ---------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >
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> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:28:06 +0100
> From: Sylvain Baya <abscoco at gmail.com>
> To: "mje at posix.co.za" <mje at posix.co.za>,
>         "community-discuss at afrinic.net" <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> Subject: [Community-Discuss] [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAJjTEvE+sHgdAsJUO4D1pYe1eEwCk6WEMosvhknZqS+AwyF6Kg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi all,
>
> Le jeudi 5 d?cembre 2019, Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za> a ?crit :
>
> > Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to
> > manipulate the non-legacy space -
> >
>
> Dear Mark,
> ...i agree !
>
> yet it happened. In this case (looting of non-legacy space), the RSA has
> > meant nothing.
> >
>
> As you say, i take you on words ; then if the RSA (Registration Service
> Agreement) could
> easily be bypassed, how to deal with our 'emerged' problem ?
>
> ...perhaps time to seriously reconsider the long life DPP (Draft Policy
> Proposal) [1] ?
> __
> [1]: <https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2016-gen-001-d8/amp>
>
> Shalom,
> --sb.
>
> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
> >
> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >
> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and
> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >
> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and
> then
> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those
> processes
> > may not have the desired outcome.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:
> >
> > Completely agree with Sunday.
> >
> > Mark.
> >
> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >
> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >
> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to
> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Sunday.
> >
> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >
> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
> > news story.
> >
> > https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-
> >
> resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> >   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
> > only
> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen
> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >     Regards,
> > rfg
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://
> lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >
> > --
> >
> > Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
> > mje at posix.co.za       Tel: +27.826010496 <+27826010496>
> > For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
> >
> > [image: Posix Systems][image: VCARD for MJ Elkins]
> >
>
>
> --
>
> --
> Best Regards !
> baya.sylvain [AT cmNOG DOT cm] | <https://www.cmnog.cm> | <
> https://survey.cmnog.cm>
> Subscribe to Mailing List : <
> https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/>
> __
> #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|?#?Romains15?:33?*Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec
> vous tous! ?#?Amen?!*?
> ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement?
> ?*Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire
> apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!*? (#Psaumes42:2)
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 23:43:48 +0100
> From: Isabel Odida <isabel.odida at gmail.com>
> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
> Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> Message-ID: <6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii
>
> I know what sparked this story. Some people have no chill. How convenient
> following the last meeting in June. Ok, and then what? What have you
> benefited?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On 4 Dec 2019, at 18:23, Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
> > news story.
> >
> >
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> >
> > I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I only
> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen
> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > rfg
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 14:44:58 -0800
> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> Message-ID: <18818.1575585898 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> In message <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>,
> Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >The community has been informed that there is already some internal
> >investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
> >done.
>
> Mr. Folayan,
>
> These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,
> 2019, a full three months ago.  Since that time there has not been a
> single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,
> or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague assurances
> that these matters are being looked into.
>
> Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns
> about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full
> three years ago.
>
>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html
>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html
>     https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html
>
> I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again
> repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,
> albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention
> paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any
> concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.
>
>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html
>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html
>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html
>
> At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly
> in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive
> issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to
> entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it
> were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the
> courageous reporting of MyBroadband.co.za.  Neither the board nor
> the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any
> clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will
> either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders
> and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive
> any of the findings that it may reach.  And yet despite having had
> either three full months or three full years to look into these
> matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and
> despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming
> from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel patience.
>
> This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the
> community's patience to come to an end?  Does the community have any
> assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another
> three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield
> anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the
> current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions
> of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?
>
> On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at long
> last be forthcoming?
>
> >I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
> >established, the law should take its course and people should stand
> >accountable for their deeds.
>
> This assertion on your part begs four further questions:
>
> 1)  Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been presented
> in the MyBroadband.co.za article, the majority of which were drawn from
> publicly available sources including open government records, what more
> will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and intentions
> are established"?  What parts of the abundant documentary evidence already
> presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?
>
> 2)  If, as asserted in the MyBroadband.co.za article, it can be
> persuasively
> demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in fact
> purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that AFRINIC
> itself is one of the aggrieved parties?  And if so, would you hope and
> expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and
> all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?
>
> 3)  Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and endemic
> within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do you
> have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all
> likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?
>
> 4)  What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-
> documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks from
> AFRINIC's own free pool?  Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed by
> AFRINIC?  Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever they
> may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten booty
> on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?
>
> >I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
> >organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
> >years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover
> >the manipulations.
>
> On this point, you and I are in complete agreement.  "The system", such
> as it is, is quite self-evidently broken.  But this raises the further
> question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at AFRINIC,
> while all of this was going on.  Is it even plausible that a single bad
> actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars
> worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a
> several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC
> staff even noticed any of this?
>
> >For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
> >department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.
>
> See above.  Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced with
> respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself.  No other
> single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much
> valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself.  And yet we have, as yet, no
> clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any staff
> member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone
> that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated
> by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.
>
> If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new dictionary.
>
> >While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
> >of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
> >with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
> >rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
> >available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our
> >time and intellect.
>
> See above.  With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we
> may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"?  I have
> so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any
> document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member of
> AFRINIC.  In fact, quite the opposite.  I see that a purported three
> month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth publicly
> reporting on so far.  I see an attempt to shift the blame for this colossal
> and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders
> while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of
> AFRINIC itself.  I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action
> will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a
> backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a general
> disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific
> national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.
>
> For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances misplaced,
> Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.
> The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and
> to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or placed
> under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to all.
> AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding
> responsibility.
>
> I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and effectively
> remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still ongoing
> after-effects.  I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now
> evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the carpet
> will no longer be considered a vialble option.
>
>
> Regards,
> rfg
>
>
> P.S.  I must strenuously object to your use of the word "whistleblower" in
> this context Mr. Folayan.  That term is usually used in reference to some
> insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed
> first-hand some malfeasance.  Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this
> description.  Rather, we have labored as outsiders only.  We have not
> been privy to any "inside" information.  Quite the opposite in fact.  We
> have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable requests
> for information by AFRINIC staff.
>
> Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our
> reasonable
> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.
> Exactly
> such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four other
> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists upon
> request.  When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such unredacted
> WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were rejected
> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved policy
> was cited as the basis for the denial.
>
> At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate explanation
> for
> this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to be
> granted at long last.  Certain portions of my research cannot be completed
> without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved basis for
> the rejection of such requests.
>
>
> P.P.S.  As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the
> numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place.  I feel
> compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively been
> double-victimized in at least two specific instances.
>
> First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large IPv4
> blocks "liberated" from its free pool.  Secondarily and even more
> insultingly
> however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also arranged
> to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be associated
> with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other
> legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired IPv4
> allocations.
>
> I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy 168.80.0.0/15 block,
> registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the
> non-legacy
> 196.16.0.0/14 block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization.
> These
> blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six million
> U.S. dollars.
>
> As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD
> mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as MEMBER-ONLY,
> as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold any
> actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees to
> AFRINIC.
>
> I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in this
> regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it does
> appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have -both-
> stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for years
> on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be due
> on these IPv4 assignments.
>
> Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further clarification
> with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have been
> collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned, for
> any year since their allocation to and association with the organizations
> noted.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 17:24:26 -0800
> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> Message-ID: <19435.1575595466 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> In message <6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com>,
> Isabel Odida <isabel.odida at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >I know what sparked this story.
>
> If you have something to say, then you have our attention and the floor.
> Please proceed.
>
>
> Regards,
> rfg
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 10:04:06 +0100
> From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>
> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> Message-ID: <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi Sunday, all,
>
>
>
> I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let me
> tell why.
>
>
>
> I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My first
> AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly after,
> during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could contribute to
> the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and joining Ernest in his
> trips to do the Registration Services training so I do IPv6 trainings.
>
>
>
> Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos, I
> was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the Madrid
> Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from Sunday, I could
> resolve that on the next day and flight again to do the training.
>
>
>
> My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that, and
> since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been doing
> those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been able to take
> advantage of that.
>
>
>
> The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as well
> as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much together,
> you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost 15 years. Of
> course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a hidden face. As
> humans, we all have positive and negative things. But I?m really shocked, I
> still resist to believe it.
>
>
>
> I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the position of
> a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use your
> own name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe someone,? may
> be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to appear in any
> documents? I feel this is really silly and non-understandable. So maybe
> somebody used him, which doesn?t mean he is still guilty ?in vigilando?
> because he trusted anyone else, or something similar.
>
>
>
> Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents. If
> you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be enough.
>
>
>
> So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation, and
> may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and
> involvement an all this.
>
>
>
> Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal interest. My
> only interest is to know the *real true* and I?m sure everybody agrees on
> that.
>
>
>
> Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so no
> doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very
> thankful for that.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jordi
>
> @jordipalet
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <sfolayan at gmail.com> escribi?:
>
>
>
> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest
> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy
> space.
>
> The community has been informed that there is already some internal
> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things done.
> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are established,
> the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for
> their deeds.
>
> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover
> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active use,
> why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for the
> common good?
>
> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.
>
> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf of
> the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, with
> the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather
> apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for
> developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and
> intellect.
>
> Sunday.
>
>
>
> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
>
> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>
>
>
> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and
> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>
>
>
> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then
> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes
> may not have the desired outcome.
>
>
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:
>
>
>
> Completely agree with Sunday.
>
> Mark.
>
> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>
> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>
> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to
> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Sunday.
>
> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>
>
> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
> news story.
>
>
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
> only
> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen
> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>     Regards,
> rfg
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> --
> --------------------------------------------------
> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> Managing Director
> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
> ---------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing
> list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
>
> **********************************************
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 10:16:03 +0100
> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>, General Discussions
>         of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> Message-ID: <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> Dear Mr Guilmette,
>
> Regrettably, I do not monitor the press, but selected channels such as
> this list. It seems I got your attention, or you got my attention, or we
> both got each other's attention. Let us therefore maximize the possession.
>
> Important and interesting questions, that you have raised in this email.
> Let us put some punch in it. Kindly change the TO: field to
> ceo at afrinic.net, and cc the Community just to make sure it is not
> ignored, then resend it. I am sure the CEO will answer all the questions
> you here posed to me. Pity he has to start his tenure with these hard
> nuts and curveballs, but he is capable. He speaks for the Company, not me.
>
> I am equally sure that the Community appreciates the great work done,
> and no one supports the exposed fraud. You are a stakeholder, and not
> some casual bystander so please note this. What you conveniently
> ignored, is that the #1 accused company insider is the eye of the
> company on the policy lists, where you raised the issues.
>
> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should
> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more
> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking stakeholder.
> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.
>
> My use of the term "Whistleblowers" is appropriate, as I looked at one
> of your reference links, and indeed, someone confirmed to you privately
> that your hunch is right. If you do not claim the honour, they should,
> because you rightly built on their work!
>
> Great job you are doing.
>
> Have a great day.
>
> Sunday.
>
> On 05/12/2019 23:44, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> > In message <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>,
> > Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal
> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
> >> done.
> > Mr. Folayan,
> >
> > These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,
> > 2019, a full three months ago.  Since that time there has not been a
> > single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,
> > or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague
> assurances
> > that these matters are being looked into.
> >
> > Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns
> > about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full
> > three years ago.
> >
> >      https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html
> >      https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html
> >      https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html
> >
> > I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again
> > repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,
> > albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention
> > paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any
> > concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.
> >
> >      https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html
> >      https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html
> >      https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html
> >
> > At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly
> > in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive
> > issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to
> > entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it
> > were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the
> > courageous reporting of MyBroadband.co.za.  Neither the board nor
> > the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any
> > clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will
> > either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders
> > and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive
> > any of the findings that it may reach.  And yet despite having had
> > either three full months or three full years to look into these
> > matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and
> > despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming
> > from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel patience.
> >
> > This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the
> > community's patience to come to an end?  Does the community have any
> > assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another
> > three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield
> > anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the
> > current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions
> > of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?
> >
> > On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at long
> > last be forthcoming?
> >
> >> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
> >> established, the law should take its course and people should stand
> >> accountable for their deeds.
> > This assertion on your part begs four further questions:
> >
> > 1)  Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been presented
> > in the MyBroadband.co.za article, the majority of which were drawn from
> > publicly available sources including open government records, what more
> > will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and
> intentions
> > are established"?  What parts of the abundant documentary evidence
> already
> > presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?
> >
> > 2)  If, as asserted in the MyBroadband.co.za article, it can be
> persuasively
> > demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in
> fact
> > purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that AFRINIC
> > itself is one of the aggrieved parties?  And if so, would you hope and
> > expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and
> > all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?
> >
> > 3)  Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and
> endemic
> > within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do you
> > have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all
> > likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?
> >
> > 4)  What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-
> > documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks from
> > AFRINIC's own free pool?  Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed by
> > AFRINIC?  Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever they
> > may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten booty
> > on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?
> >
> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover
> >> the manipulations.
> > On this point, you and I are in complete agreement.  "The system", such
> > as it is, is quite self-evidently broken.  But this raises the further
> > question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at
> AFRINIC,
> > while all of this was going on.  Is it even plausible that a single bad
> > actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars
> > worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a
> > several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC
> > staff even noticed any of this?
> >
> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by
> now.
> > See above.  Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced with
> > respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself.  No other
> > single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much
> > valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself.  And yet we have, as yet, no
> > clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any staff
> > member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone
> > that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated
> > by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.
> >
> > If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new dictionary.
> >
> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
> >> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
> >> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
> >> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
> >> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our
> >> time and intellect.
> > See above.  With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we
> > may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"?  I have
> > so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any
> > document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member of
> > AFRINIC.  In fact, quite the opposite.  I see that a purported three
> > month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth publicly
> > reporting on so far.  I see an attempt to shift the blame for this
> colossal
> > and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders
> > while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of
> > AFRINIC itself.  I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action
> > will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a
> > backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a general
> > disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific
> > national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.
> >
> > For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances misplaced,
> > Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.
> > The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and
> > to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or
> placed
> > under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to all.
> > AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding
> responsibility.
> >
> > I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and effectively
> > remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still ongoing
> > after-effects.  I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now
> > evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the
> carpet
> > will no longer be considered a vialble option.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > rfg
> >
> >
> > P.S.  I must strenuously object to your use of the word "whistleblower"
> in
> > this context Mr. Folayan.  That term is usually used in reference to some
> > insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed
> > first-hand some malfeasance.  Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this
> > description.  Rather, we have labored as outsiders only.  We have not
> > been privy to any "inside" information.  Quite the opposite in fact.  We
> > have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable requests
> > for information by AFRINIC staff.
> >
> > Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our
> reasonable
> > requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.
> Exactly
> > such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four other
> > Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists
> upon
> > request.  When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such unredacted
> > WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were
> rejected
> > out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved
> policy
> > was cited as the basis for the denial.
> >
> > At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate explanation
> for
> > this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to be
> > granted at long last.  Certain portions of my research cannot be
> completed
> > without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved basis
> for
> > the rejection of such requests.
> >
> >
> > P.P.S.  As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the
> > numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place.  I feel
> > compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively been
> > double-victimized in at least two specific instances.
> >
> > First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large IPv4
> > blocks "liberated" from its free pool.  Secondarily and even more
> insultingly
> > however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also
> arranged
> > to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be associated
> > with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other
> > legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired IPv4
> > allocations.
> >
> > I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy 168.80.0.0/15
> block,
> > registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the
> non-legacy
> > 196.16.0.0/14 block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization.
> These
> > blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six
> million
> > U.S. dollars.
> >
> > As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD
> > mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as
> MEMBER-ONLY,
> > as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold any
> > actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees to
> > AFRINIC.
> >
> > I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in this
> > regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it
> does
> > appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have -both-
> > stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for years
> > on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be due
> > on these IPv4 assignments.
> >
> > Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further
> clarification
> > with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have been
> > collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned, for
> > any year since their allocation to and association with the organizations
> > noted.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------------
> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> Managing Director
> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:07:01 -0800
> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> Message-ID: <21084.1575626821 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Mr. Folayan,
>
> Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful response.
>
> At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and beyond
> what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.
>
>
> In message <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>,
> Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should
> >conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more
> >honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking stakeholder.
> >It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.
>
> Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.
>
> Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to see
> the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC.  That is quite certainly not a
> goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as
> you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder
> should wish for.  AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global
> Internet governance.  I cannot even envision things as being otherwise.
> No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a
> few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second.  And to use an
> even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing
> smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more than
> I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the plains.
>
> If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was being
> formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested
> that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already
> sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it, being
> preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere.  Now I may stand on the comfortable
> shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but
> I do not question the utility of the journey.
>
> The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think, matters
> of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose.  Time will
> tell if that is an accurate assesment.
>
>
> Regards,
> rfg
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:14:31 +0100
> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>, General
>         Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> Message-ID: <8d06cf43-7c72-07df-e510-96917cd8e0ed at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> Good points Jordi, and thanks for the throwback on the very many amazing
> sacrifices we all made, to grow the Internet in Africa.
>
> I will resist asking Ernest to defend himself here, We are not
> constituted as a competent jury, neither do we want to compromise the
> ongoing investigations.
>
> Questions are appropriate, so will be his own admissions or rebuttals,
> when the investigations are completed.
>
> I may be wrong, but that is my own expectations and position.
>
> Sunday.
>
> On 06/12/2019 10:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote:
> >
> > Hi Sunday, all,
> >
> > I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let
> > me tell why.
> >
> > I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My
> > first AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly
> > after, during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could
> > contribute to the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and
> > joining Ernest in his trips to do the Registration Services training
> > so I do IPv6 trainings.
> >
> > Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos,
> > I was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the
> > Madrid Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from
> > Sunday, I could resolve that on the next day and flight again to do
> > the training.
> >
> > My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that,
> > and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been
> > doing those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been
> > able to take advantage of that.
> >
> > The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as
> > well as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much
> > together, you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost
> > 15 years. Of course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a
> > hidden face. As humans, we all have positive and negative things. But
> > I?m really shocked, I still resist to believe it.
> >
> > I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the
> > position of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think
> > you will use your own name for registering companies, or instead you
> > will bribe someone, may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your
> > family name to appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly
> > and non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean
> > he is still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or
> > something similar.
> >
> > Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents.
> > If you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be enough.
> >
> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,
> > and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and
> > involvement an all this.
> >
> > Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal
> > interest. My only interest is to know the **real true** and I?m sure
> > everybody agrees on that.
> >
> > Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so
> > no doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very
> > thankful for that.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Jordi
> >
> > @jordipalet
> >
> > El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <sfolayan at gmail.com
> > <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>> escribi?:
> >
> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway
> > suggest that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only
> > on legacy space.
> >
> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal
> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
> > done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
> > established, the law should take its course and people should stand
> > accountable for their deeds.
> >
> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of
> > 7 years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to
> > discover the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or
> > in active use, why would or should they not have been returned to the
> > Registry for the common good?
> >
> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their
> > legal department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with
> > gusto by now.
> >
> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
> > of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
> > with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
> > rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
> > available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of
> > our time and intellect.
> >
> > Sunday.
> >
> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
> >
> >     Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there
> >     appears to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy
> >     space.
> >
> >     I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the
> >     problem and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >
> >     It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
> >     space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
> >     mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
> >     legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then
> >     moving legacy space under those processes may not have the desired
> >     outcome.
> >
> >     Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >         On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu
> >         <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
> >
> >         Completely agree with Sunday.
> >
> >         Mark.
> >
> >         On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >
> >             Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically
> >             ancient squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet
> >             in Africa, AfriNIC Services and bringing legacy spaces
> >             under some form of RSA?
> >
> >             I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let
> >             us see how to help and empower the people doing useful
> >             work for Africa.
> >
> >             Thanks.
> >
> >             Sunday.
> >
> >             On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >
> >                 I hope you all will take the time to read and think
> >                 about the following
> >                 news story.
> >
> >
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> >
> >                 ? I will have more to say about this in due course.?
> >                 For the moment, I only
> >                 wish to say that the investigation undertaken by
> >                 myself and Jan Vermeulen
> >                 is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >                 ? ? Regards,
> >                 rfg
> >
> >
> >                 _______________________________________________
> >                 Community-Discuss mailing list
> >                 Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >                 <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >
> >
> >         _______________________________________________
> >         Community-Discuss mailing list
> >         Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >         <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >         https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >
> >
> >
> >     _______________________________________________
> >
> >     Community-Discuss mailing list
> >
> >     Community-Discuss at afrinic.net  <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >
> >
> >     https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >
> > --
> > --------------------------------------------------
> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> > Managing Director
> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> > Email:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng  <mailto:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng>,
> sfolayan at gmail.com  <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>
> > ---------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss
> > mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >
> >
> > **********************************************
> > IPv4 is over
> > Are you ready for the new Internet ?
> > http://www.theipv6company.com
> > The IPv6 Company
> >
> > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged
> > or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive
> > use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty
> > authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of
> > this information, even if partially, including attached files, is
> > strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you
> > are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying,
> > distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if
> > partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be
> > considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original
> > sender to inform about this communication and delete it.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------------
> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> Managing Director
> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 12:17:52 +0200
> From: Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>
> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>
> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> Message-ID: <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
>
> > On 6 Dec 2019, at 11:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss <
> community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,
> and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and
> involvement an all this.
> >
>
>
> :-)  Might as well setup a confession booth and provide absolution of
> souls.  On a serious note, we need a proper investigation.  Let?s wait to
> hear from the CEO
>
> Omo
>
>
>
>
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:21:40 +0100
> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>, General Discussions
>         of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> Message-ID: <c071ab53-ba47-a98a-8e28-d97187ae8c10 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> Dear Mr Guilmette,
>
> On 06/12/2019 11:07, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> > Mr. Folayan,
> >
> > Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful
> response.
> >
> > At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and beyond
> > what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.
> >
> >
> > In message <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>,
> > Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should
> >> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more
> >> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking stakeholder.
> >> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.
> > Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.
> >
> > Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to see
> > the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC.  That is quite certainly not a
> > goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as
> > you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder
> > should wish for.  AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global
> > Internet governance.  I cannot even envision things as being otherwise.
> > No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a
> > few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second.  And to use an
> > even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing
> > smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more than
> > I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the plains.
> >
> > If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was being
> > formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested
> > that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already
> > sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it, being
> > preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere.  Now I may stand on the comfortable
> > shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but
> > I do not question the utility of the journey.
> >
> > The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think, matters
> > of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose.  Time will
> > tell if that is an accurate assesment.
>
>
> This is most assuring and comforting at the same time.
>
> If I have sounded off-key, please accept my sincere apologies, and thank
> you very much for the good job you have done for the community so far.
> History will never forget your role and progressive disposition at this
> point in time.
>
> When AfriNIC was being formed, the challenges of today, were not
> envisioned in the very many ways that they now present themselves.
> Africa has come a long way. Unfortunately, there are still many more
> oceans to cross, but we will all band together as a purposeful fleet.
> That is how we can all weather the storms that may come, but sure they
> will come.
>
> With kind Regards ...
>
> Sunday.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:58:27 -0800
> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> Message-ID: <21283.1575629907 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> In message <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es>,
> JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es> wrote:
>
> >I also believe that he is a smart guy.
>
> I would not dispute that characterization in the slightest.
>
> >So, put yourself in the position of
> >a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use your
> o
> >wn name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe
> someone,=C2=A0
> > may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to appear in
> an
> >y documents? I feel this is really silly and non-understandable.
>
> And yet it seemed to work, for years on end, with no one raising so much
> as an eyebrow because nobody seriously investigated or seriously looked
> at all of the relevant corporate documents and WHOIS records and, in
> particular, the historical WHOIS records, including but not limited to
> these ones:
>
> ORG-AI2-AFRINIC     https://pastebin.com/raw/7rqfP1LD
> ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC   https://pastebin.com/raw/Nx79QkgB
> ORG-IA41-AFRINIC    https://pastebin.com/raw/ynEXMyCP
> ORG-ZZ139-AFRINIC   https://pastebin.com/raw/GX5egcbW
> ORG-ZZ23-AFRINIC    https://pastebin.com/raw/Yu8K9z6N
>
> I have been chasing down miscreants on the Internet for more than 20 years
> now.  One of the lessons I have learned in that time is that none of them
> are ten feet tall, and the majority of them absolutely suck at OPSEC.  It
> is almost as if some part of them is deluding their own brains into the
> false belief that what they are doing is not really wrong, in some
> sense, and that they are somehow actually entitled to the stuff they are
> stealing, and that thus, at some level, they don't actually need to hide
> what they are doing all that throughly, because just as White House Chief
> of Staff Mick Mulvaney did not long ago... much to the shock of everyone...
> if they are ever caught and confronted they assume that they will just say
> "Yea.  So?  We do that all of the time.  Get over it!"
>
> >So maybe
> >somebody used him, which doesn=E2=80=99t mean he is still guilty
> =E2=80=9Cin
> >vigilando=E2=80=9D because he trusted anyone else, or something similar.
>
> It's a nice thought, and you are a generous person to allow this
> possibility
> Jordi.  All I can say is that other information, not yet made public,
> appears to rule out the possibility that Mr. Byaruhanga was either an
> unwitting stooge or a convenient fall guy.
>
> >Do we believe in =E2=80=9Cpresumption of innocence=E2=80=9D? I do,
> despite
> >documents. If you don=E2=80=99t know the complete background, documents
> may
> >not be enough.
>
> I agree.
>
> That having been said, I hope that you will, as I have, spend some time
> carefully scrutinizing both the current and historical WHOIS records
> associated with the ORGanizations and the IPv4 blocks listed in the two
> tables in Jan's article.  If you do that, I think that you will be, as
> I was, hard pressed to explain all of the quite glaring anomalies in
> any way that does not involve a great deal of very deliberate malfesance
> on somebody's part.  Once you are convinced of that, then the question
> becomes:  Who is responsible?  And it is at that point that the various
> official governmental corporate registration records would seem to become
> very relevant.
>
> >So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation, and
> >may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and
> involvement
> >an all this.
>
> I would like to echo that sentiment.
>
> Jan Vermeulen and myself have tried, repeatedly, and over some significant
> time now to reach him, both via voice, at a number of different phone
> numbers
> that we have identified as being associated with him, and also via email,
> at various of his known email addresses, and we have been utterly unable to
> do so.  We both very much look forward to speaking with him and getting his
> side of the story, if he has one.
>
> That having been said, we cannot be blamed, I think, for reaching certain
> reasonable conclusions when Jan's industry sources informed him, less than
> a day after I had attempted to confront Ernest, via email, with the facts
> arrayed against him, that he had abruptly resigned his position at AFRINIC
> after 15 years on the job.
>
> His abrupt resignation was and remains his only apparent response to our
> inquiries.
>
>
> Regards,
> rfg
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 03:16:57 -0800
> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> Message-ID: <21648.1575631017 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> In message <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net>,
> Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net> wrote:
>
> >On a serious note, we need a proper investigation.  Let's
> >wait to hear from the CEO
>
> Have any of us been doing otherwise, for lo these past three months now?
>
> Have we been afforded any other choice in the matter?
>
> Can AFRINIC clean its own stables?
>
>
> Regards,
> rfg
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1
> *************************************************
>


-- 
*Ogundele Olumuyiwa Caleb*
*muyiwacaleb at gmail.com <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>*
*234 - 8077377378*
*234 - 07030777969*
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From owen at delong.com  Sun Dec  8 18:48:50 2019
From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2019 10:48:50 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <CAL_ZvK4BWG8QAkOn=9aJKzwsDgG3GNsWVfnbhbGtFWxAnXz9kg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1831.1575631030.5925.community-discuss@afrinic.net>
 <CAL_ZvK4BWG8QAkOn=9aJKzwsDgG3GNsWVfnbhbGtFWxAnXz9kg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <280EBC89-783C-48DF-A93E-D8A539A9D25C@delong.com>



> On Dec 6, 2019, at 07:46 , Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear Ronald,
> 
> So I read where this comment below was attributed to you. 
> 
> 
> >?Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our reasonable
> > requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS database.  Exactly
> > such unredacted database dumps *are* provided by all of the four other
> > Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists upon
> > request.  When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such unredacted
> > WHOIS database dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were rejected
> > out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved policy
> > was cited as the basis for the denial.?
> 
> While not taking brief for AFRINIC or any of its staff, I feel you should know that AFRINIC?s operation is also being governed by Mauritius data protection law.
> Mauritius regulates data protection under the Data Protection Act 2017 (DPA 2017 or Act), proclaimed through Proclamation No. 3 of 2018, effective January 15, 2018. The Act repeals and replaces the Data Protection Act 2004, so as to align with the European Union General Data Protection Regulation 2016/679 (GDPR). 
> 
> Even if you are not familiar with Mauritius law, the EU GDPR which is more popular should tell you the implication of revealing a WHOIS database to a non-state prosecutorial actor like yourself who does not have a court warrant to see the redacted sections you seek. Please correct me if I?m wrong in my legal analysis of your request.

Whois is data that is published generally, so your comments here about DPR don?t really apply.

Such WHOIS dumps are available from RIPE, so I don?t think it is a GDPR issue at all.

> Perhaps, isn?t it time for the community to revisit the Internet Number Resources review policy <https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal> which was not on the docket for policy at this just-concluded meeting?
> https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal <https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal>

No? The resource review policy would do absolutely nothing to help here.

> We might be doing something right this time if that policy will allow for a diligent review of resources including the legacy ones.

That policy does not provide for any review that AfriNIC cannot currently do. All it does is provide a vector for a unique form of Denial Of Service attack against larger organizations in the form of a complaint-induced resource review.

Let us please not conflate this issue with an utterly and completely unrelated policy effort aimed at weaponizing AfriNIC to allow one subset of the membership to attack another.

Owen

> 
> Regards
> 
> Caleb Ogundele
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 12:17 PM <community-discuss-request at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss-request at afrinic.net>> wrote:
> Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to
>         community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>         https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         community-discuss-request at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss-request at afrinic.net>
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>         community-discuss-owner at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss-owner at afrinic.net>
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)
>    2. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mike Silber)
>    3. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Elkins)
>    4. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Andrew Alston)
>    5. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)
>    6. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
>    7. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)
>    8. [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC (Sylvain Baya)
>    9. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Isabel Odida)
>   10. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
>   11. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
>   12. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)
>   13. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
>   14. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
>   15. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
>   16. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)
>   17. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
>   18. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
>   19. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:27:42 +0200
> From: Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>>
> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> Message-ID: <9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16 at seacom.mu <mailto:9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16 at seacom.mu>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Completely agree with Sunday.
> 
> Mark.
> 
> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >
> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how
> > to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Sunday.
> >
> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
> >> news story.
> >>
> >> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html>
> >>
> >> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the moment,
> >> I only
> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> >> Vermeulen
> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >> ? ? Regards,
> >> rfg
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >>
> 
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:46:15 +0200
> From: Mike Silber <silber.mike at gmail.com <mailto:silber.mike at gmail.com>>
> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> Message-ID: <2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3 at gmail.com <mailto:2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3 at gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> 
> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> 
> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome. 
> 
> Mike
> 
> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
> > 
> > Completely agree with Sunday.
> > 
> > Mark.
> > 
> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA? 
> >> 
> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa. 
> >> 
> >> Thanks. 
> >> 
> >> Sunday. 
> >> 
> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: 
> >>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following 
> >>> news story. 
> >>> 
> >>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html> <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html>> 
> >>>   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I only 
> >>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen 
> >>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved. 
> >>>     Regards, 
> >>> rfg 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> _______________________________________________ 
> >>> Community-Discuss mailing list 
> >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net> <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>> 
> >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss> <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>> 
> >>> 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> 
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:59:57 +0200
> From: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>>
> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> Message-ID: <007bb014-4eb8-157f-5312-f8333782f32f at posix.co.za <mailto:007bb014-4eb8-157f-5312-f8333782f32f at posix.co.za>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
> 
> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to 
> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case (looting 
> of non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.
> 
> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears 
> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >
> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem 
> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >
> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how 
> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been 
> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of 
> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving 
> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu> 
> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
> >>
> >> Mark.
> >>
> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient 
> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC 
> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >>>
> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see 
> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks.
> >>>
> >>> Sunday.
> >>>
> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the 
> >>>> following
> >>>> news story.
> >>>>
> >>>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html> 
> >>>>
> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the 
> >>>> moment, I only
> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan 
> >>>> Vermeulen
> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >>>> ? ? Regards,
> >>>> rfg
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >>>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net> <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> -- 
> 
> Mark James ELKINS? -? Posix Systems - (South) Africa
> mje at posix.co.za???? <http://mje at posix.co.za/????>?? Tel: +27.826010496 <tel:+27826010496>
> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za <https://ftth.posix.co.za/>
> 
> Posix SystemsVCARD for MJ Elkins
> 
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:10:48 +0000
> From: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com <mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>>
> To: "mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>" <mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>>,
>         "community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>" <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> Message-ID:
>         <DBBPR03MB5415D6F757C9E3BD1AE2CDE4EE5C0 at DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com <mailto:DBBPR03MB5415D6F757C9E3BD1AE2CDE4EE5C0 at DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>>
> 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> 
> I would be very curious to hear from a legal perspective what - if any - legal liability AfriNIC has in a situation like this.
> 
> The fact is - space has value - and if space is stolen - used for spam or whatever else - and the reputation of said space is damaged - it?s value decreases.  Now I fully realize that space can be hijacked - and at that point potentially the hijackers may hold the liability. However - when the space seems to have been stolen and sold off by a staff member of the organization that is meant in effect to the curator of the space - I question if there is not a liability issue at play if it can be proven that due care was not taken to safe guard against the actions taken.
> 
> I?m no lawyer though so I would really be interested to know the legal perspective - can an rir be held liable to the actions of its staff if it did not adequately protect against the actions taken.
> 
> Andrew
> 
> Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>>
> ________________________________
> From: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>>
> Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 3:59:57 PM
> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net> <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> 
> 
> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case (looting of non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.
> 
> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> 
> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> 
> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.
> 
> Mike
> 
> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu><mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>>> wrote:
> 
> Completely agree with Sunday.
> 
> Mark.
> 
> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> 
> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Sunday.
> 
> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
> news story.
> 
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html><https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html>>
>   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I only
> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen
> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>     Regards,
> rfg
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net><mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss><https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net><mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss><https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net><mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss><https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>>
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
> mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za><mailto:mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>>       Tel: +27.826010496<tel:+27826010496>
> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za <https://ftth.posix.co.za/><https://ftth.posix.co.za <https://ftth.posix.co.za/>>
> 
> [Posix            Systems][VCARD for            MJ Elkins]
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 15:11:04 +0200
> From: Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>>
> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> Message-ID: <7fa06e69-5728-f936-ce1d-f471893ccc17 at seacom.mu <mailto:7fa06e69-5728-f936-ce1d-f471893ccc17 at seacom.mu>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> I don't disagree with that either.
> 
> I am certain AFRINIC are working on this, and I know there will be no
> shortage of queries about this from the field, much to our
> already-clogged e-mail boxes. I don't want to do the jobs of others; no
> one is doing mine for me.
> 
> My preferred current focus - your last paragraph, below.
> 
> Mark.
> 
> On 5/Dec/19 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >
> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >
> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving
> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>
> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
> >>
> >> Mark.
> >>
> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >>>
> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see
> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks.
> >>>
> >>> Sunday.
> >>>
> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
> >>>> following
> >>>> news story.
> >>>>
> >>>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html>
> >>>>
> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the
> >>>> moment, I only
> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> >>>> Vermeulen
> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >>>> ? ? Regards,
> >>>> rfg
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >>>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net> <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >
> 
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 19:54:21 +0100
> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>>
> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> Message-ID: <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com <mailto:4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"
> 
> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest 
> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy 
> space.
> 
> The community has been informed that there is already some internal 
> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things 
> done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are 
> established, the law should take its course and people should stand 
> accountable for their deeds.
> 
> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund 
> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7 
> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover 
> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active 
> use, why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for 
> the common good?
> 
> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal 
> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.
> 
> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf 
> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, 
> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should 
> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are 
> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our 
> time and intellect.
> 
> Sunday.
> 
> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears 
> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >
> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem 
> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >
> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how 
> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been 
> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of 
> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving 
> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu> 
> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
> >>
> >> Mark.
> >>
> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient 
> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC 
> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >>>
> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see 
> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks.
> >>>
> >>> Sunday.
> >>>
> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the 
> >>>> following
> >>>> news story.
> >>>>
> >>>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html> 
> >>>>
> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the 
> >>>> moment, I only
> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan 
> >>>> Vermeulen
> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >>>> ? ? Regards,
> >>>> rfg
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >>>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net> <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> 
> -- 
> --------------------------------------------------
> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> Managing Director
> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng <mailto:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng>, sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:15:59 +0200
> From: Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net <mailto:Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>>
> To: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>>
> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> Message-ID:
>         <CAG1eoi3w-F2Ui-BfiKmBqYJ=srHdvBJx2F5vS2k__asGCVTwVw at mail.gmail.com <mailto:srHdvBJx2F5vS2k__asGCVTwVw at mail.gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> I have to agree with this. As shocking and disappointing as the revelations
> might be, this makes the most sense to me.
> 
> Omo
> 
> On Thu, 5 Dec 2019, 20:56 Sunday Folayan, <sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest
> > that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy
> > space.
> >
> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal
> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things done.
> > I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are established,
> > the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for
> > their deeds.
> >
> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
> > years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover
> > the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active use,
> > why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for the
> > common good?
> >
> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
> > department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.
> >
> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf of
> > the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, with
> > the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather
> > apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for
> > developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and
> > intellect.
> > Sunday.
> >
> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
> >
> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >
> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and
> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >
> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then
> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes
> > may not have the desired outcome.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
> >
> > Completely agree with Sunday.
> >
> > Mark.
> >
> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >
> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >
> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to
> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Sunday.
> >
> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >
> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
> > news story.
> >
> >
> > https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html>
> >   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
> > only
> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen
> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >     Regards,
> > rfg
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <http://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >
> > --
> > --------------------------------------------------
> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> > Managing Director
> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> > Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng <mailto:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng>, sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>
> > ---------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:28:06 +0100
> From: Sylvain Baya <abscoco at gmail.com <mailto:abscoco at gmail.com>>
> To: "mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>" <mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>>,
>         "community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>" <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> Subject: [Community-Discuss] [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC
> Message-ID:
>         <CAJjTEvE+sHgdAsJUO4D1pYe1eEwCk6WEMosvhknZqS+AwyF6Kg at mail.gmail.com <mailto:CAJjTEvE%2BsHgdAsJUO4D1pYe1eEwCk6WEMosvhknZqS%2BAwyF6Kg at mail.gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Le jeudi 5 d?cembre 2019, Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>> a ?crit :
> 
> > Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to
> > manipulate the non-legacy space -
> >
> 
> Dear Mark,
> ...i agree !
> 
> yet it happened. In this case (looting of non-legacy space), the RSA has
> > meant nothing.
> >
> 
> As you say, i take you on words ; then if the RSA (Registration Service
> Agreement) could
> easily be bypassed, how to deal with our 'emerged' problem ?
> 
> ...perhaps time to seriously reconsider the long life DPP (Draft Policy
> Proposal) [1] ?
> __
> [1]: <https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2016-gen-001-d8/amp <https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2016-gen-001-d8/amp>>
> 
> Shalom,
> --sb.
> 
> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
> >
> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >
> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and
> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >
> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then
> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes
> > may not have the desired outcome.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
> >
> > Completely agree with Sunday.
> >
> > Mark.
> >
> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >
> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >
> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to
> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Sunday.
> >
> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >
> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
> > news story.
> >
> > https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet- <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet->
> > resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> >   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
> > only
> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen
> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >     Regards,
> > rfg
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <http://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >
> > --
> >
> > Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
> > mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>       Tel: +27.826010496 <+27826010496>
> > For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za <https://ftth.posix.co.za/>
> >
> > [image: Posix Systems][image: VCARD for MJ Elkins]
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> --
> Best Regards !
> baya.sylvain [AT cmNOG DOT cm] | <https://www.cmnog.cm <https://www.cmnog.cm/>> | <
> https://survey.cmnog.cm <https://survey.cmnog.cm/>>
> Subscribe to Mailing List : <https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/ <https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/>>
> __
> #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|?#?Romains15?:33?*Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec
> vous tous! ?#?Amen?!*?
> ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement?
> ?*Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire
> apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!*? (#Psaumes42:2)
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 9
> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 23:43:48 +0100
> From: Isabel Odida <isabel.odida at gmail.com <mailto:isabel.odida at gmail.com>>
> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com <mailto:rfg at tristatelogic.com>>
> Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> Message-ID: <6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com <mailto:6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii
> 
> I know what sparked this story. Some people have no chill. How convenient following the last meeting in June. Ok, and then what? What have you benefited?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> > On 4 Dec 2019, at 18:23, Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg at tristatelogic.com <mailto:rfg at tristatelogic.com>> wrote:
> > 
> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
> > news story.
> > 
> > https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html>
> > 
> > I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I only
> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen
> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> > 
> > 
> > Regards,
> > rfg
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 10
> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 14:44:58 -0800
> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com <mailto:rfg at tristatelogic.com>>
> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> Message-ID: <18818.1575585898 at segfault.tristatelogic.com <mailto:18818.1575585898 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> In message <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com <mailto:4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>>, 
> Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> >The community has been informed that there is already some internal 
> >investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things 
> >done.
> 
> Mr. Folayan,
> 
> These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,
> 2019, a full three months ago.  Since that time there has not been a
> single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,
> or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague assurances
> that these matters are being looked into.
> 
> Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns
> about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full
> three years ago.
> 
>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html <https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html>
>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html <https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html>
>     https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html>
> 
> I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again
> repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,
> albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention
> paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any
> concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.
> 
>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html <https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html>
>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html <https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html>
>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html <https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html>
> 
> At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly
> in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive
> issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to
> entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it
> were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the
> courageous reporting of MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/>.  Neither the board nor
> the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any
> clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will
> either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders
> and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive
> any of the findings that it may reach.  And yet despite having had
> either three full months or three full years to look into these
> matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and
> despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming
> from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel patience.
> 
> This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the
> community's patience to come to an end?  Does the community have any
> assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another
> three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield
> anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the
> current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions
> of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?
> 
> On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at long
> last be forthcoming?
> 
> >I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are 
> >established, the law should take its course and people should stand 
> >accountable for their deeds.
> 
> This assertion on your part begs four further questions:
> 
> 1)  Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been presented
> in the MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/> article, the majority of which were drawn from
> publicly available sources including open government records, what more
> will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and intentions
> are established"?  What parts of the abundant documentary evidence already
> presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?
> 
> 2)  If, as asserted in the MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/> article, it can be persuasively
> demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in fact
> purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that AFRINIC
> itself is one of the aggrieved parties?  And if so, would you hope and
> expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and
> all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?
> 
> 3)  Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and endemic
> within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do you
> have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all
> likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?
> 
> 4)  What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-
> documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks from
> AFRINIC's own free pool?  Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed by
> AFRINIC?  Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever they
> may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten booty
> on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?
> 
> >I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund 
> >organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7 
> >years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover 
> >the manipulations.
> 
> On this point, you and I are in complete agreement.  "The system", such
> as it is, is quite self-evidently broken.  But this raises the further
> question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at AFRINIC,
> while all of this was going on.  Is it even plausible that a single bad
> actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars
> worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a
> several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC
> staff even noticed any of this?
> 
> >For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal 
> >department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.
> 
> See above.  Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced with
> respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself.  No other
> single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much
> valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself.  And yet we have, as yet, no
> clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any staff
> member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone
> that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated
> by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.
> 
> If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new dictionary.
> 
> >While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf 
> >of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, 
> >with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should 
> >rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are 
> >available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our 
> >time and intellect.
> 
> See above.  With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we
> may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"?  I have
> so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any
> document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member of
> AFRINIC.  In fact, quite the opposite.  I see that a purported three
> month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth publicly
> reporting on so far.  I see an attempt to shift the blame for this colossal
> and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders
> while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of
> AFRINIC itself.  I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action
> will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a
> backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a general
> disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific
> national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.
> 
> For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances misplaced,
> Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.
> The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and
> to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or placed
> under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to all.
> AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding responsibility.
> 
> I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and effectively
> remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still ongoing
> after-effects.  I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now
> evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the carpet
> will no longer be considered a vialble option.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> rfg
> 
> 
> P.S.  I must strenuously object to your use of the word "whistleblower" in
> this context Mr. Folayan.  That term is usually used in reference to some
> insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed
> first-hand some malfeasance.  Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this
> description.  Rather, we have labored as outsiders only.  We have not
> been privy to any "inside" information.  Quite the opposite in fact.  We
> have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable requests
> for information by AFRINIC staff.
> 
> Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our reasonable
> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.  Exactly
> such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four other
> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists upon
> request.  When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such unredacted
> WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were rejected
> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved policy
> was cited as the basis for the denial.
> 
> At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate explanation for
> this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to be
> granted at long last.  Certain portions of my research cannot be completed
> without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved basis for
> the rejection of such requests.
> 
> 
> P.P.S.  As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the
> numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place.  I feel
> compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively been
> double-victimized in at least two specific instances.
> 
> First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large IPv4
> blocks "liberated" from its free pool.  Secondarily and even more insultingly
> however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also arranged
> to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be associated
> with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other
> legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired IPv4
> allocations.
> 
> I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy 168.80.0.0/15 <http://168.80.0.0/15> block,
> registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the non-legacy
> 196.16.0.0/14 <http://196.16.0.0/14> block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization.  These
> blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six million
> U.S. dollars.
> 
> As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD
> mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as MEMBER-ONLY,
> as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold any
> actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees to
> AFRINIC.
> 
> I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in this
> regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it does
> appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have -both-
> stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for years
> on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be due
> on these IPv4 assignments.
> 
> Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further clarification
> with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have been
> collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned, for
> any year since their allocation to and association with the organizations
> noted.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 11
> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 17:24:26 -0800
> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com <mailto:rfg at tristatelogic.com>>
> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> Message-ID: <19435.1575595466 at segfault.tristatelogic.com <mailto:19435.1575595466 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> In message <6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com <mailto:6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com>>, 
> Isabel Odida <isabel.odida at gmail.com <mailto:isabel.odida at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> >I know what sparked this story.
> 
> If you have something to say, then you have our attention and the floor.
> Please proceed.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> rfg
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 12
> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 10:04:06 +0100
> From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es <mailto:jordi.palet at consulintel.es>>
> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> Message-ID: <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es <mailto:79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Hi Sunday, all,
> 
> 
> 
> I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let me tell why.
> 
> 
> 
> I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My first AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly after, during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could contribute to the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and joining Ernest in his trips to do the Registration Services training so I do IPv6 trainings.
> 
> 
> 
> Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos, I was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the Madrid Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from Sunday, I could resolve that on the next day and flight again to do the training.
> 
> 
> 
> My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that, and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been doing those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been able to take advantage of that.
> 
> 
> 
> The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as well as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much together, you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost 15 years. Of course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a hidden face. As humans, we all have positive and negative things. But I?m really shocked, I still resist to believe it.
> 
> 
> 
> I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the position of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use your own name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe someone,? may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly and non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean he is still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or something similar.
> 
> 
> 
> Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents. If you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be enough.
> 
> 
> 
> So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation, and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and involvement an all this.
> 
> 
> 
> Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal interest. My only interest is to know the *real true* and I?m sure everybody agrees on that.
> 
> 
> 
> Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so no doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very thankful for that.
> 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Jordi
> 
> @jordipalet
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>> escribi?:
> 
> 
> 
> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy space.
> 
> The community has been informed that there is already some internal investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are established, the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for their deeds.
> 
> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7 years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active use, why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for the common good?
> 
> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.
> 
> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and intellect.
> 
> Sunday. 
> 
> 
> 
> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
> 
> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space. 
> 
> 
> 
> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> 
> 
> 
> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome. 
> 
> 
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Completely agree with Sunday.
> 
> Mark.
> 
> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> 
> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA? 
> 
> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa. 
> 
> Thanks. 
> 
> Sunday. 
> 
> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: 
> 
> 
> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following 
> news story. 
> 
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html> 
>   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I only 
> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen 
> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved. 
>     Regards, 
> rfg 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
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> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
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> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> -- 
> --------------------------------------------------
> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> Managing Director
> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng <mailto:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng>, sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss> 
> 
> 
> 
> **********************************************
> IPv4 is over
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> The IPv6 Company
> 
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 13
> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 10:16:03 +0100
> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>>
> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com <mailto:rfg at tristatelogic.com>>, General Discussions
>         of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> Message-ID: <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com <mailto:4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> 
> Dear Mr Guilmette,
> 
> Regrettably, I do not monitor the press, but selected channels such as 
> this list. It seems I got your attention, or you got my attention, or we 
> both got each other's attention. Let us therefore maximize the possession.
> 
> Important and interesting questions, that you have raised in this email. 
> Let us put some punch in it. Kindly change the TO: field to 
> ceo at afrinic.net <mailto:ceo at afrinic.net>, and cc the Community just to make sure it is not 
> ignored, then resend it. I am sure the CEO will answer all the questions 
> you here posed to me. Pity he has to start his tenure with these hard 
> nuts and curveballs, but he is capable. He speaks for the Company, not me.
> 
> I am equally sure that the Community appreciates the great work done, 
> and no one supports the exposed fraud. You are a stakeholder, and not 
> some casual bystander so please note this. What you conveniently 
> ignored, is that the #1 accused company insider is the eye of the 
> company on the policy lists, where you raised the issues.
> 
> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should 
> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more 
> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking stakeholder. 
> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.
> 
> My use of the term "Whistleblowers" is appropriate, as I looked at one 
> of your reference links, and indeed, someone confirmed to you privately 
> that your hunch is right. If you do not claim the honour, they should, 
> because you rightly built on their work!
> 
> Great job you are doing.
> 
> Have a great day.
> 
> Sunday.
> 
> On 05/12/2019 23:44, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> > In message <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com <mailto:4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>>,
> > Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal
> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
> >> done.
> > Mr. Folayan,
> >
> > These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,
> > 2019, a full three months ago.  Since that time there has not been a
> > single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,
> > or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague assurances
> > that these matters are being looked into.
> >
> > Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns
> > about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full
> > three years ago.
> >
> >      https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html <https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html>
> >      https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html <https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html>
> >      https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html>
> >
> > I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again
> > repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,
> > albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention
> > paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any
> > concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.
> >
> >      https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html <https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html>
> >      https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html <https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html>
> >      https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html <https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html>
> >
> > At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly
> > in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive
> > issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to
> > entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it
> > were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the
> > courageous reporting of MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/>.  Neither the board nor
> > the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any
> > clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will
> > either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders
> > and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive
> > any of the findings that it may reach.  And yet despite having had
> > either three full months or three full years to look into these
> > matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and
> > despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming
> > from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel patience.
> >
> > This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the
> > community's patience to come to an end?  Does the community have any
> > assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another
> > three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield
> > anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the
> > current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions
> > of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?
> >
> > On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at long
> > last be forthcoming?
> >
> >> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
> >> established, the law should take its course and people should stand
> >> accountable for their deeds.
> > This assertion on your part begs four further questions:
> >
> > 1)  Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been presented
> > in the MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/> article, the majority of which were drawn from
> > publicly available sources including open government records, what more
> > will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and intentions
> > are established"?  What parts of the abundant documentary evidence already
> > presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?
> >
> > 2)  If, as asserted in the MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/> article, it can be persuasively
> > demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in fact
> > purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that AFRINIC
> > itself is one of the aggrieved parties?  And if so, would you hope and
> > expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and
> > all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?
> >
> > 3)  Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and endemic
> > within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do you
> > have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all
> > likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?
> >
> > 4)  What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-
> > documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks from
> > AFRINIC's own free pool?  Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed by
> > AFRINIC?  Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever they
> > may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten booty
> > on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?
> >
> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover
> >> the manipulations.
> > On this point, you and I are in complete agreement.  "The system", such
> > as it is, is quite self-evidently broken.  But this raises the further
> > question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at AFRINIC,
> > while all of this was going on.  Is it even plausible that a single bad
> > actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars
> > worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a
> > several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC
> > staff even noticed any of this?
> >
> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.
> > See above.  Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced with
> > respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself.  No other
> > single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much
> > valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself.  And yet we have, as yet, no
> > clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any staff
> > member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone
> > that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated
> > by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.
> >
> > If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new dictionary.
> >
> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
> >> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
> >> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
> >> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
> >> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our
> >> time and intellect.
> > See above.  With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we
> > may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"?  I have
> > so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any
> > document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member of
> > AFRINIC.  In fact, quite the opposite.  I see that a purported three
> > month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth publicly
> > reporting on so far.  I see an attempt to shift the blame for this colossal
> > and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders
> > while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of
> > AFRINIC itself.  I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action
> > will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a
> > backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a general
> > disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific
> > national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.
> >
> > For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances misplaced,
> > Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.
> > The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and
> > to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or placed
> > under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to all.
> > AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding responsibility.
> >
> > I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and effectively
> > remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still ongoing
> > after-effects.  I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now
> > evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the carpet
> > will no longer be considered a vialble option.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > rfg
> >
> >
> > P.S.  I must strenuously object to your use of the word "whistleblower" in
> > this context Mr. Folayan.  That term is usually used in reference to some
> > insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed
> > first-hand some malfeasance.  Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this
> > description.  Rather, we have labored as outsiders only.  We have not
> > been privy to any "inside" information.  Quite the opposite in fact.  We
> > have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable requests
> > for information by AFRINIC staff.
> >
> > Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our reasonable
> > requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.  Exactly
> > such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four other
> > Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists upon
> > request.  When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such unredacted
> > WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were rejected
> > out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved policy
> > was cited as the basis for the denial.
> >
> > At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate explanation for
> > this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to be
> > granted at long last.  Certain portions of my research cannot be completed
> > without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved basis for
> > the rejection of such requests.
> >
> >
> > P.P.S.  As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the
> > numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place.  I feel
> > compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively been
> > double-victimized in at least two specific instances.
> >
> > First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large IPv4
> > blocks "liberated" from its free pool.  Secondarily and even more insultingly
> > however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also arranged
> > to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be associated
> > with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other
> > legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired IPv4
> > allocations.
> >
> > I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy 168.80.0.0/15 <http://168.80.0.0/15> block,
> > registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the non-legacy
> > 196.16.0.0/14 <http://196.16.0.0/14> block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization.  These
> > blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six million
> > U.S. dollars.
> >
> > As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD
> > mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as MEMBER-ONLY,
> > as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold any
> > actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees to
> > AFRINIC.
> >
> > I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in this
> > regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it does
> > appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have -both-
> > stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for years
> > on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be due
> > on these IPv4 assignments.
> >
> > Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further clarification
> > with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have been
> > collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned, for
> > any year since their allocation to and association with the organizations
> > noted.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> 
> -- 
> --------------------------------------------------
> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> Managing Director
> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng <mailto:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng>, sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 14
> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:07:01 -0800
> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com <mailto:rfg at tristatelogic.com>>
> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> Message-ID: <21084.1575626821 at segfault.tristatelogic.com <mailto:21084.1575626821 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> Mr. Folayan,
> 
> Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful response.
> 
> At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and beyond
> what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.
> 
> 
> In message <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com <mailto:4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>>, 
> Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> >I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should 
> >conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more 
> >honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking stakeholder. 
> >It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.
> 
> Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.
> 
> Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to see
> the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC.  That is quite certainly not a
> goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as
> you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder
> should wish for.  AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global
> Internet governance.  I cannot even envision things as being otherwise.
> No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a
> few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second.  And to use an
> even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing
> smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more than
> I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the plains.
> 
> If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was being
> formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested
> that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already
> sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it, being
> preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere.  Now I may stand on the comfortable
> shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but
> I do not question the utility of the journey.
> 
> The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think, matters
> of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose.  Time will
> tell if that is an accurate assesment.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> rfg
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 15
> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:14:31 +0100
> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>>
> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es <mailto:jordi.palet at consulintel.es>>, General
>         Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> Message-ID: <8d06cf43-7c72-07df-e510-96917cd8e0ed at gmail.com <mailto:8d06cf43-7c72-07df-e510-96917cd8e0ed at gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
> 
> Good points Jordi, and thanks for the throwback on the very many amazing 
> sacrifices we all made, to grow the Internet in Africa.
> 
> I will resist asking Ernest to defend himself here, We are not 
> constituted as a competent jury, neither do we want to compromise the 
> ongoing investigations.
> 
> Questions are appropriate, so will be his own admissions or rebuttals, 
> when the investigations are completed.
> 
> I may be wrong, but that is my own expectations and position.
> 
> Sunday.
> 
> On 06/12/2019 10:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote:
> >
> > Hi Sunday, all,
> >
> > I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let 
> > me tell why.
> >
> > I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My 
> > first AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly 
> > after, during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could 
> > contribute to the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and 
> > joining Ernest in his trips to do the Registration Services training 
> > so I do IPv6 trainings.
> >
> > Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos, 
> > I was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the 
> > Madrid Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from 
> > Sunday, I could resolve that on the next day and flight again to do 
> > the training.
> >
> > My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that, 
> > and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been 
> > doing those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been 
> > able to take advantage of that.
> >
> > The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as 
> > well as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much 
> > together, you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost 
> > 15 years. Of course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a 
> > hidden face. As humans, we all have positive and negative things. But 
> > I?m really shocked, I still resist to believe it.
> >
> > I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the 
> > position of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think 
> > you will use your own name for registering companies, or instead you 
> > will bribe someone, may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your 
> > family name to appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly 
> > and non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean 
> > he is still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or 
> > something similar.
> >
> > Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents. 
> > If you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be enough.
> >
> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation, 
> > and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and 
> > involvement an all this.
> >
> > Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal 
> > interest. My only interest is to know the **real true** and I?m sure 
> > everybody agrees on that.
> >
> > Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so 
> > no doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very 
> > thankful for that.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Jordi
> >
> > @jordipalet
> >
> > El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com> 
> > <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>>> escribi?:
> >
> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway 
> > suggest that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only 
> > on legacy space.
> >
> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal 
> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things 
> > done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are 
> > established, the law should take its course and people should stand 
> > accountable for their deeds.
> >
> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund 
> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 
> > 7 years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to 
> > discover the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or 
> > in active use, why would or should they not have been returned to the 
> > Registry for the common good?
> >
> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their 
> > legal department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with 
> > gusto by now.
> >
> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf 
> > of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, 
> > with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should 
> > rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are 
> > available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of 
> > our time and intellect.
> >
> > Sunday.
> >
> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
> >
> >     Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there
> >     appears to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy
> >     space.
> >
> >     I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the
> >     problem and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >
> >     It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
> >     space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
> >     mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
> >     legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then
> >     moving legacy space under those processes may not have the desired
> >     outcome.
> >
> >     Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >         On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>
> >         <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>>> wrote:
> >
> >         Completely agree with Sunday.
> >
> >         Mark.
> >
> >         On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >
> >             Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically
> >             ancient squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet
> >             in Africa, AfriNIC Services and bringing legacy spaces
> >             under some form of RSA?
> >
> >             I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let
> >             us see how to help and empower the people doing useful
> >             work for Africa.
> >
> >             Thanks.
> >
> >             Sunday.
> >
> >             On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >
> >                 I hope you all will take the time to read and think
> >                 about the following
> >                 news story.
> >
> >                 https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html>
> >
> >                 ? I will have more to say about this in due course.?
> >                 For the moment, I only
> >                 wish to say that the investigation undertaken by
> >                 myself and Jan Vermeulen
> >                 is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >                 ? ? Regards,
> >                 rfg
> >
> >
> >                 _______________________________________________
> >                 Community-Discuss mailing list
> >                 Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >                 <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >                 https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >
> >
> >         _______________________________________________
> >         Community-Discuss mailing list
> >         Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >         <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >         https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >
> >
> >
> >     _______________________________________________
> >
> >     Community-Discuss mailing list
> >
> >     Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>  <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >
> >     https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >
> > -- 
> > --------------------------------------------------
> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> > Managing Director
> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> > Email:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng <mailto:Email%3Asfolayan at skannet.com.ng>  <mailto:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng <mailto:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng>>,sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>  <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>>
> > ---------------------------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss 
> > mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net> 
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >
> >
> > **********************************************
> > IPv4 is over
> > Are you ready for the new Internet ?
> > http://www.theipv6company.com <http://www.theipv6company.com/>
> > The IPv6 Company
> >
> > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged 
> > or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive 
> > use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty 
> > authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of 
> > this information, even if partially, including attached files, is 
> > strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you 
> > are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, 
> > distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if 
> > partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be 
> > considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original 
> > sender to inform about this communication and delete it.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> 
> -- 
> --------------------------------------------------
> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> Managing Director
> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng <mailto:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng>, sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 16
> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 12:17:52 +0200
> From: Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net <mailto:Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>>
> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es <mailto:jordi.palet at consulintel.es>>
> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> Message-ID: <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net <mailto:14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> 
> 
> > On 6 Dec 2019, at 11:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation, and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and involvement an all this.
> >  
> 
> 
> :-)  Might as well setup a confession booth and provide absolution of souls.  On a serious note, we need a proper investigation.  Let?s wait to hear from the CEO
> 
> Omo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 17
> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:21:40 +0100
> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>>
> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com <mailto:rfg at tristatelogic.com>>, General Discussions
>         of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> Message-ID: <c071ab53-ba47-a98a-8e28-d97187ae8c10 at gmail.com <mailto:c071ab53-ba47-a98a-8e28-d97187ae8c10 at gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> 
> Dear Mr Guilmette,
> 
> On 06/12/2019 11:07, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> > Mr. Folayan,
> >
> > Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful response.
> >
> > At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and beyond
> > what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.
> >
> >
> > In message <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com <mailto:4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>>,
> > Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should
> >> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more
> >> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking stakeholder.
> >> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.
> > Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.
> >
> > Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to see
> > the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC.  That is quite certainly not a
> > goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as
> > you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder
> > should wish for.  AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global
> > Internet governance.  I cannot even envision things as being otherwise.
> > No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a
> > few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second.  And to use an
> > even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing
> > smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more than
> > I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the plains.
> >
> > If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was being
> > formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested
> > that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already
> > sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it, being
> > preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere.  Now I may stand on the comfortable
> > shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but
> > I do not question the utility of the journey.
> >
> > The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think, matters
> > of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose.  Time will
> > tell if that is an accurate assesment.
> 
> 
> This is most assuring and comforting at the same time.
> 
> If I have sounded off-key, please accept my sincere apologies, and thank 
> you very much for the good job you have done for the community so far. 
> History will never forget your role and progressive disposition at this 
> point in time.
> 
> When AfriNIC was being formed, the challenges of today, were not 
> envisioned in the very many ways that they now present themselves. 
> Africa has come a long way. Unfortunately, there are still many more 
> oceans to cross, but we will all band together as a purposeful fleet. 
> That is how we can all weather the storms that may come, but sure they 
> will come.
> 
> With kind Regards ...
> 
> Sunday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 18
> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:58:27 -0800
> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com <mailto:rfg at tristatelogic.com>>
> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> Message-ID: <21283.1575629907 at segfault.tristatelogic.com <mailto:21283.1575629907 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> In message <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es <mailto:79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es>>, 
> JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es <mailto:jordi.palet at consulintel.es>> wrote:
> 
> >I also believe that he is a smart guy.
> 
> I would not dispute that characterization in the slightest.
> 
> >So, put yourself in the position of 
> >a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use your o
> >wn name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe someone,=C2=A0
> > may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to appear in an
> >y documents? I feel this is really silly and non-understandable.
> 
> And yet it seemed to work, for years on end, with no one raising so much
> as an eyebrow because nobody seriously investigated or seriously looked
> at all of the relevant corporate documents and WHOIS records and, in
> particular, the historical WHOIS records, including but not limited to
> these ones:
> 
> ORG-AI2-AFRINIC     https://pastebin.com/raw/7rqfP1LD <https://pastebin.com/raw/7rqfP1LD>
> ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC   https://pastebin.com/raw/Nx79QkgB <https://pastebin.com/raw/Nx79QkgB>
> ORG-IA41-AFRINIC    https://pastebin.com/raw/ynEXMyCP <https://pastebin.com/raw/ynEXMyCP>
> ORG-ZZ139-AFRINIC   https://pastebin.com/raw/GX5egcbW <https://pastebin.com/raw/GX5egcbW>
> ORG-ZZ23-AFRINIC    https://pastebin.com/raw/Yu8K9z6N <https://pastebin.com/raw/Yu8K9z6N>
> 
> I have been chasing down miscreants on the Internet for more than 20 years
> now.  One of the lessons I have learned in that time is that none of them
> are ten feet tall, and the majority of them absolutely suck at OPSEC.  It
> is almost as if some part of them is deluding their own brains into the
> false belief that what they are doing is not really wrong, in some
> sense, and that they are somehow actually entitled to the stuff they are
> stealing, and that thus, at some level, they don't actually need to hide
> what they are doing all that throughly, because just as White House Chief
> of Staff Mick Mulvaney did not long ago... much to the shock of everyone...
> if they are ever caught and confronted they assume that they will just say
> "Yea.  So?  We do that all of the time.  Get over it!"
> 
> >So maybe
> >somebody used him, which doesn=E2=80=99t mean he is still guilty =E2=80=9Cin
> >vigilando=E2=80=9D because he trusted anyone else, or something similar.
> 
> It's a nice thought, and you are a generous person to allow this possibility
> Jordi.  All I can say is that other information, not yet made public,
> appears to rule out the possibility that Mr. Byaruhanga was either an
> unwitting stooge or a convenient fall guy.
> 
> >Do we believe in =E2=80=9Cpresumption of innocence=E2=80=9D? I do, despite 
> >documents. If you don=E2=80=99t know the complete background, documents may
> >not be enough.
> 
> I agree.
> 
> That having been said, I hope that you will, as I have, spend some time
> carefully scrutinizing both the current and historical WHOIS records
> associated with the ORGanizations and the IPv4 blocks listed in the two
> tables in Jan's article.  If you do that, I think that you will be, as
> I was, hard pressed to explain all of the quite glaring anomalies in
> any way that does not involve a great deal of very deliberate malfesance
> on somebody's part.  Once you are convinced of that, then the question
> becomes:  Who is responsible?  And it is at that point that the various
> official governmental corporate registration records would seem to become
> very relevant.
> 
> >So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation, and
> >may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and involvement
> >an all this.
> 
> I would like to echo that sentiment.
> 
> Jan Vermeulen and myself have tried, repeatedly, and over some significant
> time now to reach him, both via voice, at a number of different phone numbers
> that we have identified as being associated with him, and also via email,
> at various of his known email addresses, and we have been utterly unable to
> do so.  We both very much look forward to speaking with him and getting his
> side of the story, if he has one.
> 
> That having been said, we cannot be blamed, I think, for reaching certain
> reasonable conclusions when Jan's industry sources informed him, less than
> a day after I had attempted to confront Ernest, via email, with the facts
> arrayed against him, that he had abruptly resigned his position at AFRINIC
> after 15 years on the job.
> 
> His abrupt resignation was and remains his only apparent response to our
> inquiries.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> rfg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 19
> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 03:16:57 -0800
> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com <mailto:rfg at tristatelogic.com>>
> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> Message-ID: <21648.1575631017 at segfault.tristatelogic.com <mailto:21648.1575631017 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> 
> In message <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net <mailto:14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net>>, 
> Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net <mailto:Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>> wrote:
> 
> >On a serious note, we need a proper investigation.  Let's
> >wait to hear from the CEO
> 
> Have any of us been doing otherwise, for lo these past three months now?
> 
> Have we been afforded any other choice in the matter?
> 
> Can AFRINIC clean its own stables?
> 
> 
> Regards,
> rfg
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1
> *************************************************
> 
> 
> -- 
> Ogundele Olumuyiwa Caleb
> muyiwacaleb at gmail.com <mailto:muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>
> 234 - 8077377378
> 234 - 07030777969
> _______________________________________________
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From owen at delong.com  Sun Dec  8 18:52:23 2019
From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2019 10:52:23 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
In-Reply-To: <ea8dc349-e2dc-2a8c-eb0e-ab85139edf6a@gmail.com>
References: <11702.1575480229@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
 <ea8dc349-e2dc-2a8c-eb0e-ab85139edf6a@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <640BE0C7-375E-46A7-9774-1FD1EEB9AA79@delong.com>

The best way to empower useful work is to move forward with IPv6.

Owen


> On Dec 5, 2019, at 03:02 , Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> 
> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Sunday.
> 
> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
>> news story.
>> 
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>>  I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I only
>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen
>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>>    Regards,
>> rfg
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> 
> -- 
> --------------------------------------------------
> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> Managing Director
> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss




From leo.vegoda at icann.org  Sun Dec  8 20:09:18 2019
From: leo.vegoda at icann.org (Leo Vegoda)
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2019 20:09:18 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [Ext] Re:  Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547,
 Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <280EBC89-783C-48DF-A93E-D8A539A9D25C@delong.com>
References: <mailman.1831.1575631030.5925.community-discuss@afrinic.net>
 <CAL_ZvK4BWG8QAkOn=9aJKzwsDgG3GNsWVfnbhbGtFWxAnXz9kg@mail.gmail.com>
 <280EBC89-783C-48DF-A93E-D8A539A9D25C@delong.com>
Message-ID: <4D311B9C-2BF1-45A8-BF21-A4DFFB9894FE@icann.org>

Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:

[...]

> Whois is data that is published generally, so your comments here 
> about DPR don?t really apply.
> 
> Such WHOIS dumps are available from RIPE, so I don?t think it is a 
> GDPR issue at all.

Both AFRINIC and RIPE NCC public database dumps on their FTP sites but the RIPE NCC data is cleaned to remove more person data than the AFRINIC data dumps. The AFRINIC data includes the unique nic-hdl of contacts for resources but the dumps published by the RIPE NCC replace the unique nic-hdl with DUMY-RIPE:

person:          Placeholder Person Object
address:         RIPE Network Coordination Centre
address:         P.O. Box 10096
address:         1001 EB Amsterdam
address:         The Netherlands
phone:           +31 20 535 4444
nic-hdl:         DUMY-RIPE
mnt-by:          RIPE-DBM-MNT
remarks:         **********************************************************
remarks:         * This is a placeholder object to protect personal data.
remarks:         * To view the original object, please query the RIPE
remarks:         * Database at:
remarks:         * http://www.ripe.net/whois
remarks:         **********************************************************
created:         2009-11-11T16:36:07Z
last-modified:   2009-11-11T16:36:07Z
source:          RIPE

Kind regards,

Leo


From rfg at tristatelogic.com  Sun Dec  8 22:20:10 2019
From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette)
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2019 14:20:10 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <280EBC89-783C-48DF-A93E-D8A539A9D25C@delong.com>
Message-ID: <33218.1575843610@segfault.tristatelogic.com>

In message <280EBC89-783C-48DF-A93E-D8A539A9D25C at delong.com>, 
Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> wrote:

> On Dec 6, 2019, at 07:46 , Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>Even if you are not familiar with Mauritius law, the EU GDPR which is 
>>more popular should tell you the implication of revealing a WHOIS 
>>database to a non-state prosecutorial actor like yourself who does not 
>>have a court warrant to see the redacted sections you seek. Please 
>>correct me if I'm wrong in my legal analysis of your request.
>
>Whois is data that is published generally, so your comments here about 
>DPR don't really apply.
>
>Such WHOIS dumps are available from RIPE, so I don't think it is 
>a GDPR issue at all.

I am in agreement with Owen on this.  The argument regarding the denial
of access to unredacted copies of the WHOIS data base based on some
alleged legal privacy issues is quite obviously not a reasonable or
plausible one, not only because RIPE does not impose such a restriction
but also, and more obviously, the argument makes no sense on the face
of it because individual unredacted records may be obtained by anyone
any time, just by querying the AFRINIC WHOIS data base using the -B
option.

If there were any serious legal problem with AFRINIC revealing unredacted
contact information for resources holders, then even WHOIS queries for
individual unredacted records (-B) would necessarily be disallowed.  And
they aren't, so obviously, there is not a serious legal issue here.

On that basis, I stand by my assertion that Jan Vermeulen and myself
have been stonewalled by AFRINIC staff, based on nothing at all, when
we requested researcher access to the unredacted AFRINIC data base.
And I say again, we were given no reason for the refusal to provide
this information.  Neither any legal reason nor any community-ratified
policy for this refusal was cited as the basis for the refusal at the
time.

To make matters even more bizzarely comical, as is the case with all
of the other RIRs, AFRINC has on its web site a special form that
must be filled out in order to obtain unredacted copies of the entire
WHOIS data base:

https://afrinic.net/support/general-queries/how-can-i-request-for-bulk-whois-data

Researchers must fill out this form, giving a lot of personal data,
and then must FAX or email it to AFRINIC, which we did.  (Essentially
the same procedure is used by all five of the RIRs for any party wishing
to obtain access to unredacted copies of their respective WHOIS data
bases.)

Note that access to a *redacted* copy of the WHOIS data base for any one
of the five RIRs generally requires none of this fooling around.  Anyone
who wants redacted copies of these data bases can just use anonymous
FTP and fetch them directly from the five RIR FTP servers.  (We have
done that also.)  One only needs to fill out the form and go through
all of this extra rigamorole if one specifically wants to obtain an
unredacted copy of the WHOIS data base.

Given that, you can readily imagine our shock and surprise when we filled
out the form, and then FAXed it back to AFRINIC HQ, only to be told that
despite our having jumped through ALL of the required procedural hoops,
we would only be given the exact same (redacted) copy of the data base
that we had already downloaded previously, via anonymous FTP.

Any random party from anywhere in the world can, with no special prior
arrangements, fetch a copy of the redacted AFRINIC WHOIS data base from
ftp.afrinic.net.  Given that fact, and given that this is all that AFRINC
will give you, no matter what you do, someone is going to have to explain
to me the reasons for the existance of the official AFRINIC web page
linked to above.  Why even have a complicated special procedure if the
people who do all of the steps of that procedure just end up with the
exact same un-special access privileges as they had before they did any
of this?  It makes no sense on the face of it, unless...

I assert again that we have been very deliberately stonewalled by AFRINIC
when we requested an unredacted copy of the data base.  We do not know
if we were selectively targeted for this stonewalling by one or more
AFRINIC staff members, perhaps including but not limited to Mr. Byaruhanga
and/or those working in collusion with him, or if there is, nowadays
a general stonewalling, by AFRINIC staff, of all requests for any and
all information where staff members feel that they can get away with it.
But I can definitely say that, as of this moment, we still do not have
access to the unredacted AFRINIC WHOIS data base and we also still have
no explanation whatsoever for *why* we don't.  And I still do need that
access in order to fully complete my research.

The proper response here is as simple as it is obvious.  I call on the
new CEO, Mr. Eddy Kayihura, to take command of the situation, and to
immediately grant reasonable and confidential researcher access to the
entire unredacted AFRINIC WHOIS data base to myself and Jan Vermeulen.
We have already filed out and returned to AFRINIC HQ all of the necessary
paperwork in order to qualify for such access.


Regards,
rfg



From rfg at tristatelogic.com  Sun Dec  8 23:31:07 2019
From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette)
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2019 15:31:07 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [Ext] Re: Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547,
	Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <4D311B9C-2BF1-45A8-BF21-A4DFFB9894FE@icann.org>
Message-ID: <33462.1575847867@segfault.tristatelogic.com>

In message <4D311B9C-2BF1-45A8-BF21-A4DFFB9894FE at icann.org>, 
Leo Vegoda <leo.vegoda at icann.org> wrote:

>... {snipped} ...

Mr. Vegoda appears to be arguing that even if one jumps through all
necessary hoops in order to obtain "researcher" access to the RIPE
data base, one still won't get a full and unredacted copy of that
(RIPE) data base.

I do not presently believe that to be true, but I would argue that even
if it is true, it doesn't matter, and that any such restriction is just
another sign of modern bureaucrats covering their own asses while making
life pointlessly difficult for everyone else.

In the case of both the RIPE data base and the AFRINIC data base, I hope
that we can all agree that it is trivially possible to download, via
FTP, redacted copies of these data bases, and that from these it is
trivially possible to extract full lists of all relevant person and role
handles.

I hope that we can further agree that given such lists of person and
role handles, it is also a programatically trivial matter to use those
handle lists to directly query the relevant WHOIS servers, using the
-B option, in order to obtain unredacted copies of all such person and
role records, and further, that any one of the numerous commercially
available proxy services may be used in order to trivially skirt any
troublesome per-IP rate limits that may apply to such sets of sequential
WHOIS queries.

In short, the act of denying direct access to unredacted copies of *any*
RIR WHOIS data base is a fool's errand, and one which may be trivially
circumvented by any truly determined party.  It's ultimate practical
effect, therefore, is simply to inconvenience both bad actors and
legitimate researchers alike, while not materially preventing access
to the unredacted data in question.  This does not even qualify as
the much maligned "security through obscurity".  This is "security
through inconvenience" and is demonstratably, in the end, equally
pointless and foolish.

There are two possible responses to these undeniable facts:  (1) arrange
for all RIRs to *always* redact *all* contact information from *all*
WHOIS queries, or else (2) stop wasting everyone's time with these
ridiculous and provably futile attempts to pander to the anti-transparency
lobby.

Option (1) would quite obviously be disasterous for the continued smooth
functioning of the Internet.  If things start to go seriously haywire
on any given network, and if no one on the entire planet can even find
contact information for that network, then havoc will quite obviously
ensue.  Not that this means anything to the anti-transparency advocates.
As far as they are concerned, personal privacy is the ultimate consideration,
even for network opeerators, and even if, taken to its logical conclusion,
it means that we all have to go back to living in our own privacy-enhancing
personal caves.

On the other hand, option (2) is equally unacceptable, at least to the
anti-transparency "personal privacy" advocates and their attorneys who
have, over time, deminstrated a pronounced preference for hiding not
only all of their activities but also even their identities in places
like Mauritius, Malta, the Seychelles, and the Cayman Islands.

My hope is that the poople on this list will appreciate that a global
interconnected network is not at all well served by rendering communication
between network managers either difficult or impossible, and that thus,
all here will soundly reject option (1) as the perfect idiocy that it is.

It's time to stop hiding the ball and pandering to "offshore" skulduggery
and none of the RIRs have any viable *or* legal excuse for continuing to
do so, especially not now, when there has been an ample demonstration
of the use of an opaque offshore jurisdiction in conjunction with the
insider-engineered theft of AFRINIC IPv4 address space.  (See the
particulars relating to ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC for further information.)


Regards,
rfg



From leo.vegoda at icann.org  Mon Dec  9 02:27:43 2019
From: leo.vegoda at icann.org (Leo Vegoda)
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2019 02:27:43 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [Ext] Re: Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547,
 Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <33462.1575847867@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
References: <4D311B9C-2BF1-45A8-BF21-A4DFFB9894FE@icann.org>
 <33462.1575847867@segfault.tristatelogic.com>
Message-ID: <C0EAB407-4793-46BF-9303-6D65EB015E7A@icann.org>

On 12/8/19, 3:33 PM, "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com> wrote:

[...]

> Mr. Vegoda appears to be arguing that 

No, I am not making an argument, I am observing that there is a difference in the way these two RIRs perform this function. 

Kind regards,

Leo Vegoda


From amelnaud at gmail.com  Tue Dec 10 13:48:37 2019
From: amelnaud at gmail.com (Arnaud AMELINA)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:48:37 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <CAL_ZvK4BWG8QAkOn=9aJKzwsDgG3GNsWVfnbhbGtFWxAnXz9kg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1831.1575631030.5925.community-discuss@afrinic.net>
 <CAL_ZvK4BWG8QAkOn=9aJKzwsDgG3GNsWVfnbhbGtFWxAnXz9kg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGDMR_cXHVW34SOD40wNBOrhiVOzR1-p+=CPTkSvfPCLee3mPw@mail.gmail.com>

+1 to Caleb as you say it, it's time to find consensus on review policy.

Regard

--
Arnaud

Le ven. 6 d?c. 2019 ? 15:48, Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>
a ?crit :

> Dear Ronald,
>
> So I read where this comment below was attributed to you.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *>?Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our
> reasonable> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS
> database.  Exactly> such unredacted database dumps *are* provided by all of
> the four other> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and
> journalists upon> request.  When we submitted repeated requests for exactly
> such unredacted> WHOIS database dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our
> requests were rejected> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any
> community-approved policy> was cited as the basis for the denial.?*
> While not taking brief for AFRINIC or any of its staff, I feel you should
> know that AFRINIC?s operation is also being governed by Mauritius data
> protection law.
> Mauritius regulates data protection under the Data Protection Act 2017
> (DPA 2017 or Act), proclaimed through Proclamation No. 3 of 2018, effective
> January 15, 2018. The Act repeals and replaces the Data Protection Act
> 2004, so as to align with the European Union General Data Protection
> Regulation 2016/679 (GDPR).
>
> Even if you are not familiar with Mauritius law, the EU GDPR which is more
> popular should tell you the implication of revealing a WHOIS database to a
> non-state prosecutorial actor like yourself who does not have a court
> warrant to see the redacted sections you seek. Please correct me if I?m
> wrong in my legal analysis of your request.
>
> Perhaps, isn?t it time for the community to revisit the Internet Number
> Resources review policy
> <https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal> which was not
> on the docket for policy at this just-concluded meeting?
> https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal
>
> We might be doing something right this time if that policy will allow for
> a diligent review of resources including the legacy ones.
>
> Regards
>
> Caleb Ogundele
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 12:17 PM <community-discuss-request at afrinic.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to
>>         community-discuss at afrinic.net
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>         https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>         community-discuss-request at afrinic.net
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>         community-discuss-owner at afrinic.net
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)
>>    2. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mike Silber)
>>    3. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Elkins)
>>    4. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Andrew Alston)
>>    5. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)
>>    6. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
>>    7. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)
>>    8. [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC (Sylvain Baya)
>>    9. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Isabel Odida)
>>   10. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
>>   11. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
>>   12. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)
>>   13. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
>>   14. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
>>   15. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
>>   16. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)
>>   17. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
>>   18. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
>>   19. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:27:42 +0200
>> From: Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu>
>> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16 at seacom.mu>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Completely agree with Sunday.
>>
>> Mark.
>>
>> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >
>> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how
>> > to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >
>> > Thanks.
>> >
>> > Sunday.
>> >
>> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
>> >> news story.
>> >>
>> >>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >>
>> >> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the moment,
>> >> I only
>> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> >> Vermeulen
>> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >> ? ? Regards,
>> >> rfg
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >>
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/7f6aa1b8/attachment-0001.html
>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:46:15 +0200
>> From: Mike Silber <silber.mike at gmail.com>
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
>> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>>
>> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and
>> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>>
>> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
>> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then
>> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
>> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes
>> may not have the desired outcome.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:
>> >
>> > Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >
>> > Mark.
>> >
>> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >>
>> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how
>> to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks.
>> >>
>> >> Sunday.
>> >>
>> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
>> following
>> >>> news story.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> <
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html>
>>
>> >>>   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment,
>> I only
>> >>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> Vermeulen
>> >>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >>>     Regards,
>> >>> rfg
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
>> >>>
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/1d4a9dec/attachment-0001.html
>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:59:57 +0200
>> From: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za>
>> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <007bb014-4eb8-157f-5312-f8333782f32f at posix.co.za>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>>
>> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to
>> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case (looting
>> of non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.
>>
>> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
>> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>> >
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
>> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>> >
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
>> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
>> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
>> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving
>> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.
>> >
>> > Mike
>> >
>> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu
>> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >>
>> >> Mark.
>> >>
>> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >>>
>> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see
>> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks.
>> >>>
>> >>> Sunday.
>> >>>
>> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
>> >>>> following
>> >>>> news story.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the
>> >>>> moment, I only
>> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> >>>> Vermeulen
>> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >>>> ? ? Regards,
>> >>>> rfg
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >>>>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> --
>>
>> Mark James ELKINS? -? Posix Systems - (South) Africa
>> mje at posix.co.za?????? Tel: +27.826010496 <tel:+27826010496>
>> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
>>
>> Posix SystemsVCARD for MJ Elkins
>>
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>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:10:48 +0000
>> From: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
>> To: "mje at posix.co.za" <mje at posix.co.za>,
>>         "community-discuss at afrinic.net" <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID:
>>         <
>> DBBPR03MB5415D6F757C9E3BD1AE2CDE4EE5C0 at DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com
>> >
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>>
>> I would be very curious to hear from a legal perspective what - if any -
>> legal liability AfriNIC has in a situation like this.
>>
>> The fact is - space has value - and if space is stolen - used for spam or
>> whatever else - and the reputation of said space is damaged - it?s value
>> decreases.  Now I fully realize that space can be hijacked - and at that
>> point potentially the hijackers may hold the liability. However - when the
>> space seems to have been stolen and sold off by a staff member of the
>> organization that is meant in effect to the curator of the space - I
>> question if there is not a liability issue at play if it can be proven that
>> due care was not taken to safe guard against the actions taken.
>>
>> I?m no lawyer though so I would really be interested to know the legal
>> perspective - can an rir be held liable to the actions of its staff if it
>> did not adequately protect against the actions taken.
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 3:59:57 PM
>> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>>
>>
>> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to
>> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case (looting of
>> non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.
>>
>> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
>> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
>> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>>
>> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and
>> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>>
>> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
>> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then
>> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
>> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes
>> may not have the desired outcome.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu<mailto:
>> mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
>>
>> Completely agree with Sunday.
>>
>> Mark.
>>
>> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>>
>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to
>> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Sunday.
>>
>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
>> news story.
>>
>>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> <
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >
>>   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
>> only
>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen
>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>>     Regards,
>> rfg
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
>> mje at posix.co.za<mailto:mje at posix.co.za>       Tel:
>> +27.826010496<tel:+27826010496>
>> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za<
>> https://ftth.posix.co.za>
>>
>> [Posix            Systems][VCARD for            MJ Elkins]
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 15:11:04 +0200
>> From: Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu>
>> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <7fa06e69-5728-f936-ce1d-f471893ccc17 at seacom.mu>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> I don't disagree with that either.
>>
>> I am certain AFRINIC are working on this, and I know there will be no
>> shortage of queries about this from the field, much to our
>> already-clogged e-mail boxes. I don't want to do the jobs of others; no
>> one is doing mine for me.
>>
>> My preferred current focus - your last paragraph, below.
>>
>> Mark.
>>
>> On 5/Dec/19 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
>> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>> >
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
>> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>> >
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
>> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
>> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
>> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving
>> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.?
>> >
>> > Mike
>> >
>> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu
>> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >>
>> >> Mark.
>> >>
>> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >>>
>> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see
>> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks.
>> >>>
>> >>> Sunday.
>> >>>
>> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
>> >>>> following
>> >>>> news story.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the
>> >>>> moment, I only
>> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> >>>> Vermeulen
>> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >>>> ? ? Regards,
>> >>>> rfg
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >>>>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 19:54:21 +0100
>> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"
>>
>> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest
>> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy
>> space.
>>
>> The community has been informed that there is already some internal
>> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
>> done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
>> established, the law should take its course and people should stand
>> accountable for their deeds.
>>
>> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
>> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
>> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover
>> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active
>> use, why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for
>> the common good?
>>
>> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
>> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.
>>
>> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
>> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
>> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
>> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
>> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our
>> time and intellect.
>>
>> Sunday.
>>
>> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
>> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>> >
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
>> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>> >
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
>> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
>> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
>> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving
>> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.
>> >
>> > Mike
>> >
>> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu
>> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >>
>> >> Mark.
>> >>
>> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >>>
>> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see
>> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks.
>> >>>
>> >>> Sunday.
>> >>>
>> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
>> >>>> following
>> >>>> news story.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the
>> >>>> moment, I only
>> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> >>>> Vermeulen
>> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >>>> ? ? Regards,
>> >>>> rfg
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >>>>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>> --
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
>> Managing Director
>> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
>> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
>> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
>> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/118317f5/attachment-0001.html
>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:15:59 +0200
>> From: Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>
>> To: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
>> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID:
>>         <CAG1eoi3w-F2Ui-BfiKmBqYJ=
>> srHdvBJx2F5vS2k__asGCVTwVw at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> I have to agree with this. As shocking and disappointing as the
>> revelations
>> might be, this makes the most sense to me.
>>
>> Omo
>>
>> On Thu, 5 Dec 2019, 20:56 Sunday Folayan, <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest
>> > that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy
>> > space.
>> >
>> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal
>> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
>> done.
>> > I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
>> established,
>> > the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for
>> > their deeds.
>> >
>> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
>> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
>> > years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover
>> > the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active
>> use,
>> > why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for the
>> > common good?
>> >
>> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
>> > department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by
>> now.
>> >
>> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
>> of
>> > the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, with
>> > the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather
>> > apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for
>> > developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and
>> > intellect.
>> > Sunday.
>> >
>> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
>> >
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
>> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>> >
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
>> and
>> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>> >
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
>> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and
>> then
>> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
>> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those
>> processes
>> > may not have the desired outcome.
>> >
>> > Mike
>> >
>> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:
>> >
>> > Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >
>> > Mark.
>> >
>> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >
>> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >
>> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to
>> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >
>> > Thanks.
>> >
>> > Sunday.
>> >
>> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >
>> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
>> > news story.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
>> > only
>> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> Vermeulen
>> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >     Regards,
>> > rfg
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://
>> lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> > --
>> > --------------------------------------------------
>> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan
>> > Managing Director
>> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
>> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
>> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
>> > Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
>> > ---------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/582fac38/attachment-0001.html
>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:28:06 +0100
>> From: Sylvain Baya <abscoco at gmail.com>
>> To: "mje at posix.co.za" <mje at posix.co.za>,
>>         "community-discuss at afrinic.net" <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: [Community-Discuss] [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID:
>>         <
>> CAJjTEvE+sHgdAsJUO4D1pYe1eEwCk6WEMosvhknZqS+AwyF6Kg at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Le jeudi 5 d?cembre 2019, Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za> a ?crit :
>>
>> > Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to
>> > manipulate the non-legacy space -
>> >
>>
>> Dear Mark,
>> ...i agree !
>>
>> yet it happened. In this case (looting of non-legacy space), the RSA has
>> > meant nothing.
>> >
>>
>> As you say, i take you on words ; then if the RSA (Registration Service
>> Agreement) could
>> easily be bypassed, how to deal with our 'emerged' problem ?
>>
>> ...perhaps time to seriously reconsider the long life DPP (Draft Policy
>> Proposal) [1] ?
>> __
>> [1]: <https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2016-gen-001-d8/amp>
>>
>> Shalom,
>> --sb.
>>
>> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
>> >
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
>> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>> >
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
>> and
>> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>> >
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
>> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and
>> then
>> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
>> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those
>> processes
>> > may not have the desired outcome.
>> >
>> > Mike
>> >
>> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:
>> >
>> > Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >
>> > Mark.
>> >
>> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >
>> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >
>> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to
>> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >
>> > Thanks.
>> >
>> > Sunday.
>> >
>> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >
>> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
>> > news story.
>> >
>> > https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-
>> >
>> resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
>> > only
>> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> Vermeulen
>> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >     Regards,
>> > rfg
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://
>> lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
>> > mje at posix.co.za       Tel: +27.826010496 <+27826010496>
>> > For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
>> >
>> > [image: Posix Systems][image: VCARD for MJ Elkins]
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> --
>> Best Regards !
>> baya.sylvain [AT cmNOG DOT cm] | <https://www.cmnog.cm> | <
>> https://survey.cmnog.cm>
>> Subscribe to Mailing List : <
>> https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/>
>> __
>> #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|?#?Romains15?:33?*Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec
>> vous tous! ?#?Amen?!*?
>> ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement?
>> ?*Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire
>> apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!*? (#Psaumes42:2)
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 23:43:48 +0100
>> From: Isabel Odida <isabel.odida at gmail.com>
>> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
>> Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii
>>
>> I know what sparked this story. Some people have no chill. How convenient
>> following the last meeting in June. Ok, and then what? What have you
>> benefited?
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On 4 Dec 2019, at 18:23, Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
>> > news story.
>> >
>> >
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >
>> > I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
>> only
>> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> Vermeulen
>> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > rfg
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 10
>> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 14:44:58 -0800
>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <18818.1575585898 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> In message <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>,
>> Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >The community has been informed that there is already some internal
>> >investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
>> >done.
>>
>> Mr. Folayan,
>>
>> These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,
>> 2019, a full three months ago.  Since that time there has not been a
>> single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,
>> or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague assurances
>> that these matters are being looked into.
>>
>> Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns
>> about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full
>> three years ago.
>>
>>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html
>>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html
>>     https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html
>>
>> I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again
>> repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,
>> albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention
>> paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any
>> concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.
>>
>>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html
>>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html
>>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html
>>
>> At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly
>> in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive
>> issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to
>> entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it
>> were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the
>> courageous reporting of MyBroadband.co.za.  Neither the board nor
>> the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any
>> clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will
>> either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders
>> and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive
>> any of the findings that it may reach.  And yet despite having had
>> either three full months or three full years to look into these
>> matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and
>> despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming
>> from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel patience.
>>
>> This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the
>> community's patience to come to an end?  Does the community have any
>> assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another
>> three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield
>> anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the
>> current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions
>> of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?
>>
>> On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at long
>> last be forthcoming?
>>
>> >I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
>> >established, the law should take its course and people should stand
>> >accountable for their deeds.
>>
>> This assertion on your part begs four further questions:
>>
>> 1)  Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been presented
>> in the MyBroadband.co.za article, the majority of which were drawn from
>> publicly available sources including open government records, what more
>> will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and intentions
>> are established"?  What parts of the abundant documentary evidence already
>> presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?
>>
>> 2)  If, as asserted in the MyBroadband.co.za article, it can be
>> persuasively
>> demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in fact
>> purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that AFRINIC
>> itself is one of the aggrieved parties?  And if so, would you hope and
>> expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and
>> all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?
>>
>> 3)  Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and
>> endemic
>> within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do you
>> have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all
>> likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?
>>
>> 4)  What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-
>> documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks from
>> AFRINIC's own free pool?  Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed by
>> AFRINIC?  Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever they
>> may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten booty
>> on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?
>>
>> >I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
>> >organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
>> >years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover
>> >the manipulations.
>>
>> On this point, you and I are in complete agreement.  "The system", such
>> as it is, is quite self-evidently broken.  But this raises the further
>> question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at
>> AFRINIC,
>> while all of this was going on.  Is it even plausible that a single bad
>> actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars
>> worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a
>> several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC
>> staff even noticed any of this?
>>
>> >For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
>> >department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by
>> now.
>>
>> See above.  Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced with
>> respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself.  No other
>> single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much
>> valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself.  And yet we have, as yet, no
>> clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any staff
>> member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone
>> that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated
>> by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.
>>
>> If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new dictionary.
>>
>> >While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
>> >of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
>> >with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
>> >rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
>> >available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our
>> >time and intellect.
>>
>> See above.  With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we
>> may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"?  I have
>> so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any
>> document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member of
>> AFRINIC.  In fact, quite the opposite.  I see that a purported three
>> month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth publicly
>> reporting on so far.  I see an attempt to shift the blame for this
>> colossal
>> and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders
>> while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of
>> AFRINIC itself.  I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action
>> will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a
>> backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a general
>> disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific
>> national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.
>>
>> For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances misplaced,
>> Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.
>> The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and
>> to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or
>> placed
>> under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to all.
>> AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding
>> responsibility.
>>
>> I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and effectively
>> remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still ongoing
>> after-effects.  I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now
>> evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the carpet
>> will no longer be considered a vialble option.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> rfg
>>
>>
>> P.S.  I must strenuously object to your use of the word "whistleblower" in
>> this context Mr. Folayan.  That term is usually used in reference to some
>> insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed
>> first-hand some malfeasance.  Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this
>> description.  Rather, we have labored as outsiders only.  We have not
>> been privy to any "inside" information.  Quite the opposite in fact.  We
>> have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable requests
>> for information by AFRINIC staff.
>>
>> Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our
>> reasonable
>> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.
>> Exactly
>> such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four other
>> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists upon
>> request.  When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such unredacted
>> WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were rejected
>> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved policy
>> was cited as the basis for the denial.
>>
>> At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate explanation
>> for
>> this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to be
>> granted at long last.  Certain portions of my research cannot be completed
>> without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved basis
>> for
>> the rejection of such requests.
>>
>>
>> P.P.S.  As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the
>> numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place.  I feel
>> compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively been
>> double-victimized in at least two specific instances.
>>
>> First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large IPv4
>> blocks "liberated" from its free pool.  Secondarily and even more
>> insultingly
>> however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also
>> arranged
>> to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be associated
>> with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other
>> legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired IPv4
>> allocations.
>>
>> I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy 168.80.0.0/15 block,
>> registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the
>> non-legacy
>> 196.16.0.0/14 block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization.
>> These
>> blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six million
>> U.S. dollars.
>>
>> As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD
>> mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as MEMBER-ONLY,
>> as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold any
>> actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees to
>> AFRINIC.
>>
>> I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in this
>> regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it does
>> appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have -both-
>> stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for years
>> on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be due
>> on these IPv4 assignments.
>>
>> Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further
>> clarification
>> with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have been
>> collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned, for
>> any year since their allocation to and association with the organizations
>> noted.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 11
>> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 17:24:26 -0800
>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
>> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <19435.1575595466 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> In message <6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com>,
>> Isabel Odida <isabel.odida at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >I know what sparked this story.
>>
>> If you have something to say, then you have our attention and the floor.
>> Please proceed.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> rfg
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 12
>> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 10:04:06 +0100
>> From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Hi Sunday, all,
>>
>>
>>
>> I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let me
>> tell why.
>>
>>
>>
>> I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My first
>> AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly after,
>> during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could contribute to
>> the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and joining Ernest in his
>> trips to do the Registration Services training so I do IPv6 trainings.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos, I
>> was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the Madrid
>> Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from Sunday, I could
>> resolve that on the next day and flight again to do the training.
>>
>>
>>
>> My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that,
>> and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been doing
>> those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been able to take
>> advantage of that.
>>
>>
>>
>> The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as well
>> as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much together,
>> you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost 15 years. Of
>> course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a hidden face. As
>> humans, we all have positive and negative things. But I?m really shocked, I
>> still resist to believe it.
>>
>>
>>
>> I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the position
>> of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use
>> your own name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe
>> someone,? may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to
>> appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly and
>> non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean he is
>> still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or something
>> similar.
>>
>>
>>
>> Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents. If
>> you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be enough.
>>
>>
>>
>> So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation, and
>> may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and
>> involvement an all this.
>>
>>
>>
>> Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal interest.
>> My only interest is to know the *real true* and I?m sure everybody agrees
>> on that.
>>
>>
>>
>> Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so no
>> doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very
>> thankful for that.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jordi
>>
>> @jordipalet
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <sfolayan at gmail.com> escribi?:
>>
>>
>>
>> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest
>> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy
>> space.
>>
>> The community has been informed that there is already some internal
>> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things done.
>> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are established,
>> the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for
>> their deeds.
>>
>> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
>> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
>> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover
>> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active use,
>> why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for the
>> common good?
>>
>> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
>> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.
>>
>> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf of
>> the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, with
>> the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather
>> apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for
>> developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and
>> intellect.
>>
>> Sunday.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
>>
>> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
>> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>>
>>
>>
>> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and
>> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>>
>>
>>
>> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
>> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then
>> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
>> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes
>> may not have the desired outcome.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Completely agree with Sunday.
>>
>> Mark.
>>
>> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>>
>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>>
>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to
>> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Sunday.
>>
>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>>
>>
>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
>> news story.
>>
>>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>>   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
>> only
>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen
>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>>     Regards,
>> rfg
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> --
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
>> Managing Director
>> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
>> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
>> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
>> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing
>> list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>>
>>
>> **********************************************
>> IPv4 is over
>> Are you ready for the new Internet ?
>> http://www.theipv6company.com
>> The IPv6 Company
>>
>> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 13
>> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 10:16:03 +0100
>> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
>> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>, General Discussions
>>         of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>>
>> Dear Mr Guilmette,
>>
>> Regrettably, I do not monitor the press, but selected channels such as
>> this list. It seems I got your attention, or you got my attention, or we
>> both got each other's attention. Let us therefore maximize the possession.
>>
>> Important and interesting questions, that you have raised in this email.
>> Let us put some punch in it. Kindly change the TO: field to
>> ceo at afrinic.net, and cc the Community just to make sure it is not
>> ignored, then resend it. I am sure the CEO will answer all the questions
>> you here posed to me. Pity he has to start his tenure with these hard
>> nuts and curveballs, but he is capable. He speaks for the Company, not me.
>>
>> I am equally sure that the Community appreciates the great work done,
>> and no one supports the exposed fraud. You are a stakeholder, and not
>> some casual bystander so please note this. What you conveniently
>> ignored, is that the #1 accused company insider is the eye of the
>> company on the policy lists, where you raised the issues.
>>
>> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should
>> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more
>> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking stakeholder.
>> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.
>>
>> My use of the term "Whistleblowers" is appropriate, as I looked at one
>> of your reference links, and indeed, someone confirmed to you privately
>> that your hunch is right. If you do not claim the honour, they should,
>> because you rightly built on their work!
>>
>> Great job you are doing.
>>
>> Have a great day.
>>
>> Sunday.
>>
>> On 05/12/2019 23:44, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> > In message <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>,
>> > Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal
>> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
>> >> done.
>> > Mr. Folayan,
>> >
>> > These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,
>> > 2019, a full three months ago.  Since that time there has not been a
>> > single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,
>> > or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague
>> assurances
>> > that these matters are being looked into.
>> >
>> > Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns
>> > about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full
>> > three years ago.
>> >
>> >
>> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html
>> >
>> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html
>> >      https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html
>> >
>> > I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again
>> > repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,
>> > albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention
>> > paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any
>> > concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.
>> >
>> >      https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html
>> >      https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html
>> >      https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html
>> >
>> > At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly
>> > in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive
>> > issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to
>> > entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it
>> > were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the
>> > courageous reporting of MyBroadband.co.za.  Neither the board nor
>> > the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any
>> > clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will
>> > either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders
>> > and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive
>> > any of the findings that it may reach.  And yet despite having had
>> > either three full months or three full years to look into these
>> > matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and
>> > despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming
>> > from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel patience.
>> >
>> > This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the
>> > community's patience to come to an end?  Does the community have any
>> > assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another
>> > three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield
>> > anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the
>> > current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions
>> > of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?
>> >
>> > On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at
>> long
>> > last be forthcoming?
>> >
>> >> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
>> >> established, the law should take its course and people should stand
>> >> accountable for their deeds.
>> > This assertion on your part begs four further questions:
>> >
>> > 1)  Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been presented
>> > in the MyBroadband.co.za article, the majority of which were drawn from
>> > publicly available sources including open government records, what more
>> > will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and
>> intentions
>> > are established"?  What parts of the abundant documentary evidence
>> already
>> > presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?
>> >
>> > 2)  If, as asserted in the MyBroadband.co.za article, it can be
>> persuasively
>> > demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in
>> fact
>> > purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that AFRINIC
>> > itself is one of the aggrieved parties?  And if so, would you hope and
>> > expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and
>> > all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?
>> >
>> > 3)  Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and
>> endemic
>> > within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do
>> you
>> > have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all
>> > likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?
>> >
>> > 4)  What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-
>> > documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks from
>> > AFRINIC's own free pool?  Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed
>> by
>> > AFRINIC?  Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever
>> they
>> > may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten booty
>> > on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?
>> >
>> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
>> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
>> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to
>> discover
>> >> the manipulations.
>> > On this point, you and I are in complete agreement.  "The system", such
>> > as it is, is quite self-evidently broken.  But this raises the further
>> > question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at
>> AFRINIC,
>> > while all of this was going on.  Is it even plausible that a single bad
>> > actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars
>> > worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a
>> > several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC
>> > staff even noticed any of this?
>> >
>> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
>> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by
>> now.
>> > See above.  Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced with
>> > respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself.  No other
>> > single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much
>> > valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself.  And yet we have, as yet, no
>> > clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any staff
>> > member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone
>> > that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated
>> > by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.
>> >
>> > If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new dictionary.
>> >
>> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
>> >> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
>> >> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
>> >> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
>> >> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of
>> our
>> >> time and intellect.
>> > See above.  With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we
>> > may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"?  I
>> have
>> > so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any
>> > document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member of
>> > AFRINIC.  In fact, quite the opposite.  I see that a purported three
>> > month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth publicly
>> > reporting on so far.  I see an attempt to shift the blame for this
>> colossal
>> > and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders
>> > while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of
>> > AFRINIC itself.  I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action
>> > will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a
>> > backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a general
>> > disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific
>> > national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.
>> >
>> > For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances misplaced,
>> > Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.
>> > The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and
>> > to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or
>> placed
>> > under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to
>> all.
>> > AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding
>> responsibility.
>> >
>> > I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and effectively
>> > remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still ongoing
>> > after-effects.  I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now
>> > evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the
>> carpet
>> > will no longer be considered a vialble option.
>> >
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > rfg
>> >
>> >
>> > P.S.  I must strenuously object to your use of the word "whistleblower"
>> in
>> > this context Mr. Folayan.  That term is usually used in reference to
>> some
>> > insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed
>> > first-hand some malfeasance.  Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this
>> > description.  Rather, we have labored as outsiders only.  We have not
>> > been privy to any "inside" information.  Quite the opposite in fact.  We
>> > have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable requests
>> > for information by AFRINIC staff.
>> >
>> > Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our
>> reasonable
>> > requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.
>> Exactly
>> > such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four other
>> > Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists
>> upon
>> > request.  When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such
>> unredacted
>> > WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were
>> rejected
>> > out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved
>> policy
>> > was cited as the basis for the denial.
>> >
>> > At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate
>> explanation for
>> > this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to be
>> > granted at long last.  Certain portions of my research cannot be
>> completed
>> > without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved basis
>> for
>> > the rejection of such requests.
>> >
>> >
>> > P.P.S.  As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the
>> > numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place.  I feel
>> > compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively been
>> > double-victimized in at least two specific instances.
>> >
>> > First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large IPv4
>> > blocks "liberated" from its free pool.  Secondarily and even more
>> insultingly
>> > however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also
>> arranged
>> > to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be
>> associated
>> > with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other
>> > legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired IPv4
>> > allocations.
>> >
>> > I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy 168.80.0.0/15
>> block,
>> > registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the
>> non-legacy
>> > 196.16.0.0/14 block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization.
>> These
>> > blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six
>> million
>> > U.S. dollars.
>> >
>> > As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD
>> > mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as
>> MEMBER-ONLY,
>> > as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold any
>> > actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees to
>> > AFRINIC.
>> >
>> > I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in this
>> > regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it
>> does
>> > appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have -both-
>> > stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for years
>> > on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be
>> due
>> > on these IPv4 assignments.
>> >
>> > Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further
>> clarification
>> > with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have been
>> > collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned, for
>> > any year since their allocation to and association with the
>> organizations
>> > noted.
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>> --
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
>> Managing Director
>> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
>> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
>> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
>> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 14
>> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:07:01 -0800
>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <21084.1575626821 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Mr. Folayan,
>>
>> Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful response.
>>
>> At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and beyond
>> what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.
>>
>>
>> In message <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>,
>> Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should
>> >conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more
>> >honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking stakeholder.
>> >It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.
>>
>> Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.
>>
>> Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to see
>> the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC.  That is quite certainly not a
>> goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as
>> you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder
>> should wish for.  AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global
>> Internet governance.  I cannot even envision things as being otherwise.
>> No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a
>> few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second.  And to use an
>> even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing
>> smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more than
>> I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the plains.
>>
>> If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was being
>> formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested
>> that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already
>> sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it, being
>> preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere.  Now I may stand on the comfortable
>> shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but
>> I do not question the utility of the journey.
>>
>> The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think, matters
>> of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose.  Time will
>> tell if that is an accurate assesment.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> rfg
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 15
>> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:14:31 +0100
>> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
>> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>, General
>>         Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <8d06cf43-7c72-07df-e510-96917cd8e0ed at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>>
>> Good points Jordi, and thanks for the throwback on the very many amazing
>> sacrifices we all made, to grow the Internet in Africa.
>>
>> I will resist asking Ernest to defend himself here, We are not
>> constituted as a competent jury, neither do we want to compromise the
>> ongoing investigations.
>>
>> Questions are appropriate, so will be his own admissions or rebuttals,
>> when the investigations are completed.
>>
>> I may be wrong, but that is my own expectations and position.
>>
>> Sunday.
>>
>> On 06/12/2019 10:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi Sunday, all,
>> >
>> > I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let
>> > me tell why.
>> >
>> > I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My
>> > first AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly
>> > after, during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could
>> > contribute to the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and
>> > joining Ernest in his trips to do the Registration Services training
>> > so I do IPv6 trainings.
>> >
>> > Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos,
>> > I was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the
>> > Madrid Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from
>> > Sunday, I could resolve that on the next day and flight again to do
>> > the training.
>> >
>> > My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that,
>> > and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been
>> > doing those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been
>> > able to take advantage of that.
>> >
>> > The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as
>> > well as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much
>> > together, you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost
>> > 15 years. Of course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a
>> > hidden face. As humans, we all have positive and negative things. But
>> > I?m really shocked, I still resist to believe it.
>> >
>> > I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the
>> > position of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think
>> > you will use your own name for registering companies, or instead you
>> > will bribe someone, may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your
>> > family name to appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly
>> > and non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean
>> > he is still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or
>> > something similar.
>> >
>> > Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents.
>> > If you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be enough.
>> >
>> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,
>> > and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and
>> > involvement an all this.
>> >
>> > Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal
>> > interest. My only interest is to know the **real true** and I?m sure
>> > everybody agrees on that.
>> >
>> > Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so
>> > no doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very
>> > thankful for that.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Jordi
>> >
>> > @jordipalet
>> >
>> > El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <sfolayan at gmail.com
>> > <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>> escribi?:
>> >
>> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway
>> > suggest that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only
>> > on legacy space.
>> >
>> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal
>> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
>> > done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
>> > established, the law should take its course and people should stand
>> > accountable for their deeds.
>> >
>> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
>> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of
>> > 7 years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to
>> > discover the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or
>> > in active use, why would or should they not have been returned to the
>> > Registry for the common good?
>> >
>> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their
>> > legal department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with
>> > gusto by now.
>> >
>> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
>> > of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
>> > with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
>> > rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
>> > available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of
>> > our time and intellect.
>> >
>> > Sunday.
>> >
>> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
>> >
>> >     Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there
>> >     appears to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy
>> >     space.
>> >
>> >     I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the
>> >     problem and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>> >
>> >     It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
>> >     space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
>> >     mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
>> >     legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then
>> >     moving legacy space under those processes may not have the desired
>> >     outcome.
>> >
>> >     Mike
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >         On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu
>> >         <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
>> >
>> >         Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >
>> >         Mark.
>> >
>> >         On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >
>> >             Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically
>> >             ancient squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet
>> >             in Africa, AfriNIC Services and bringing legacy spaces
>> >             under some form of RSA?
>> >
>> >             I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let
>> >             us see how to help and empower the people doing useful
>> >             work for Africa.
>> >
>> >             Thanks.
>> >
>> >             Sunday.
>> >
>> >             On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >
>> >                 I hope you all will take the time to read and think
>> >                 about the following
>> >                 news story.
>> >
>> >
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >
>> >                 ? I will have more to say about this in due course.?
>> >                 For the moment, I only
>> >                 wish to say that the investigation undertaken by
>> >                 myself and Jan Vermeulen
>> >                 is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >                 ? ? Regards,
>> >                 rfg
>> >
>> >
>> >                 _______________________________________________
>> >                 Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >                 Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >                 <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> >
>> >         _______________________________________________
>> >         Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >         Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >         <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >         https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >     _______________________________________________
>> >
>> >     Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >
>> >     Community-Discuss at afrinic.net  <mailto:
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >
>> >     https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> > --
>> > --------------------------------------------------
>> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan
>> > Managing Director
>> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
>> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
>> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
>> > Email:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng  <mailto:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng>,
>> sfolayan at gmail.com  <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>
>> > ---------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss
>> > mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> >
>> > **********************************************
>> > IPv4 is over
>> > Are you ready for the new Internet ?
>> > http://www.theipv6company.com
>> > The IPv6 Company
>> >
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>> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>> --
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
>> Managing Director
>> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
>> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
>> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
>> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>
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>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 16
>> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 12:17:52 +0200
>> From: Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>
>> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>
>> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>>
>>
>> > On 6 Dec 2019, at 11:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss <
>> community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,
>> and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and
>> involvement an all this.
>> >
>>
>>
>> :-)  Might as well setup a confession booth and provide absolution of
>> souls.  On a serious note, we need a proper investigation.  Let?s wait to
>> hear from the CEO
>>
>> Omo
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 17
>> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:21:40 +0100
>> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
>> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>, General Discussions
>>         of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <c071ab53-ba47-a98a-8e28-d97187ae8c10 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>>
>> Dear Mr Guilmette,
>>
>> On 06/12/2019 11:07, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> > Mr. Folayan,
>> >
>> > Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful
>> response.
>> >
>> > At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and beyond
>> > what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.
>> >
>> >
>> > In message <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>,
>> > Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should
>> >> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more
>> >> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking
>> stakeholder.
>> >> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.
>> > Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.
>> >
>> > Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to see
>> > the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC.  That is quite certainly not a
>> > goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as
>> > you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder
>> > should wish for.  AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global
>> > Internet governance.  I cannot even envision things as being otherwise.
>> > No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a
>> > few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second.  And to use an
>> > even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing
>> > smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more than
>> > I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the plains.
>> >
>> > If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was being
>> > formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested
>> > that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already
>> > sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it, being
>> > preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere.  Now I may stand on the comfortable
>> > shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but
>> > I do not question the utility of the journey.
>> >
>> > The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think, matters
>> > of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose.  Time will
>> > tell if that is an accurate assesment.
>>
>>
>> This is most assuring and comforting at the same time.
>>
>> If I have sounded off-key, please accept my sincere apologies, and thank
>> you very much for the good job you have done for the community so far.
>> History will never forget your role and progressive disposition at this
>> point in time.
>>
>> When AfriNIC was being formed, the challenges of today, were not
>> envisioned in the very many ways that they now present themselves.
>> Africa has come a long way. Unfortunately, there are still many more
>> oceans to cross, but we will all band together as a purposeful fleet.
>> That is how we can all weather the storms that may come, but sure they
>> will come.
>>
>> With kind Regards ...
>>
>> Sunday.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 18
>> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:58:27 -0800
>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <21283.1575629907 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> In message <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es>,
>> JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es> wrote:
>>
>> >I also believe that he is a smart guy.
>>
>> I would not dispute that characterization in the slightest.
>>
>> >So, put yourself in the position of
>> >a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use
>> your o
>> >wn name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe
>> someone,=C2=A0
>> > may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to appear in
>> an
>> >y documents? I feel this is really silly and non-understandable.
>>
>> And yet it seemed to work, for years on end, with no one raising so much
>> as an eyebrow because nobody seriously investigated or seriously looked
>> at all of the relevant corporate documents and WHOIS records and, in
>> particular, the historical WHOIS records, including but not limited to
>> these ones:
>>
>> ORG-AI2-AFRINIC     https://pastebin.com/raw/7rqfP1LD
>> ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC   https://pastebin.com/raw/Nx79QkgB
>> ORG-IA41-AFRINIC    https://pastebin.com/raw/ynEXMyCP
>> ORG-ZZ139-AFRINIC   https://pastebin.com/raw/GX5egcbW
>> ORG-ZZ23-AFRINIC    https://pastebin.com/raw/Yu8K9z6N
>>
>> I have been chasing down miscreants on the Internet for more than 20 years
>> now.  One of the lessons I have learned in that time is that none of them
>> are ten feet tall, and the majority of them absolutely suck at OPSEC.  It
>> is almost as if some part of them is deluding their own brains into the
>> false belief that what they are doing is not really wrong, in some
>> sense, and that they are somehow actually entitled to the stuff they are
>> stealing, and that thus, at some level, they don't actually need to hide
>> what they are doing all that throughly, because just as White House Chief
>> of Staff Mick Mulvaney did not long ago... much to the shock of
>> everyone...
>> if they are ever caught and confronted they assume that they will just say
>> "Yea.  So?  We do that all of the time.  Get over it!"
>>
>> >So maybe
>> >somebody used him, which doesn=E2=80=99t mean he is still guilty
>> =E2=80=9Cin
>> >vigilando=E2=80=9D because he trusted anyone else, or something similar.
>>
>> It's a nice thought, and you are a generous person to allow this
>> possibility
>> Jordi.  All I can say is that other information, not yet made public,
>> appears to rule out the possibility that Mr. Byaruhanga was either an
>> unwitting stooge or a convenient fall guy.
>>
>> >Do we believe in =E2=80=9Cpresumption of innocence=E2=80=9D? I do,
>> despite
>> >documents. If you don=E2=80=99t know the complete background, documents
>> may
>> >not be enough.
>>
>> I agree.
>>
>> That having been said, I hope that you will, as I have, spend some time
>> carefully scrutinizing both the current and historical WHOIS records
>> associated with the ORGanizations and the IPv4 blocks listed in the two
>> tables in Jan's article.  If you do that, I think that you will be, as
>> I was, hard pressed to explain all of the quite glaring anomalies in
>> any way that does not involve a great deal of very deliberate malfesance
>> on somebody's part.  Once you are convinced of that, then the question
>> becomes:  Who is responsible?  And it is at that point that the various
>> official governmental corporate registration records would seem to become
>> very relevant.
>>
>> >So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation, and
>> >may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and
>> involvement
>> >an all this.
>>
>> I would like to echo that sentiment.
>>
>> Jan Vermeulen and myself have tried, repeatedly, and over some significant
>> time now to reach him, both via voice, at a number of different phone
>> numbers
>> that we have identified as being associated with him, and also via email,
>> at various of his known email addresses, and we have been utterly unable
>> to
>> do so.  We both very much look forward to speaking with him and getting
>> his
>> side of the story, if he has one.
>>
>> That having been said, we cannot be blamed, I think, for reaching certain
>> reasonable conclusions when Jan's industry sources informed him, less than
>> a day after I had attempted to confront Ernest, via email, with the facts
>> arrayed against him, that he had abruptly resigned his position at AFRINIC
>> after 15 years on the job.
>>
>> His abrupt resignation was and remains his only apparent response to our
>> inquiries.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> rfg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 19
>> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 03:16:57 -0800
>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <21648.1575631017 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> In message <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net>,
>> Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net> wrote:
>>
>> >On a serious note, we need a proper investigation.  Let's
>> >wait to hear from the CEO
>>
>> Have any of us been doing otherwise, for lo these past three months now?
>>
>> Have we been afforded any other choice in the matter?
>>
>> Can AFRINIC clean its own stables?
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> rfg
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1
>> *************************************************
>>
>
>
> --
> *Ogundele Olumuyiwa Caleb*
> *muyiwacaleb at gmail.com <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>*
> *234 - 8077377378*
> *234 - 07030777969*
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
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From amelnaud at gmail.com  Tue Dec 10 13:56:27 2019
From: amelnaud at gmail.com (Arnaud AMELINA)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:56:27 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <280EBC89-783C-48DF-A93E-D8A539A9D25C@delong.com>
References: <mailman.1831.1575631030.5925.community-discuss@afrinic.net>
 <CAL_ZvK4BWG8QAkOn=9aJKzwsDgG3GNsWVfnbhbGtFWxAnXz9kg@mail.gmail.com>
 <280EBC89-783C-48DF-A93E-D8A539A9D25C@delong.com>
Message-ID: <CAGDMR_cw7qBFFC=jd60noD=DPAgiPwY1ozQCaG77Ax29ELZikA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Community,

Policy or not, will not prevent AFRINIC  from reviewing resources if
complaints  provide enough evidences.  We  just saw allegations/complaints
in press which trigger reviews.
The review policy proposal is intended to provide community approved ways
of reviews  for fairness, transparency. Lack of community approved review
policy may have led to media complaint induced review.

Regards

--
Arnaud

Le dim. 8 d?c. 2019 ? 18:50, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> a ?crit :

>
>
> policy or not will not prevent afrinic  from reviewing resources if
> complaints  provide enough evidences.  We  just saw allegations/complaints
> in press which trigger reviews.
>
> The review policy proposal is intended to provide community approved ways
> of reviews  for fairness, transparency. Lack of community approved review
> policy may have led to media complaint induced reviewOn Dec 6, 2019, at
> 07:46 , Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Ronald,
>
> So I read where this comment below was attributed to you.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *>?Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our
> reasonable> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS
> database.  Exactly> such unredacted database dumps *are* provided by all of
> the four other> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and
> journalists upon> request.  When we submitted repeated requests for exactly
> such unredacted> WHOIS database dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our
> requests were rejected> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any
> community-approved policy> was cited as the basis for the denial.?*
> While not taking brief for AFRINIC or any of its staff, I feel you should
> know that AFRINIC?s operation is also being governed by Mauritius data
> protection law.
> Mauritius regulates data protection under the Data Protection Act 2017
> (DPA 2017 or Act), proclaimed through Proclamation No. 3 of 2018, effective
> January 15, 2018. The Act repeals and replaces the Data Protection Act
> 2004, so as to align with the European Union General Data Protection
> Regulation 2016/679 (GDPR).
>
> Even if you are not familiar with Mauritius law, the EU GDPR which is more
> popular should tell you the implication of revealing a WHOIS database to a
> non-state prosecutorial actor like yourself who does not have a court
> warrant to see the redacted sections you seek. Please correct me if I?m
> wrong in my legal analysis of your request.
>
>
> Whois is data that is published generally, so your comments here about DPR
> don?t really apply.
>
> Such WHOIS dumps are available from RIPE, so I don?t think it is a GDPR
> issue at all.
>
> Perhaps, isn?t it time for the community to revisit the Internet Number
> Resources review policy
> <https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal> which was not
> on the docket for policy at this just-concluded meeting?
> https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal
>
>
> No? The resource review policy would do absolutely nothing to help here.
>
> We might be doing something right this time if that policy will allow for
> a diligent review of resources including the legacy ones.
>
>
> That policy does not provide for any review that AfriNIC cannot currently
> do. All it does is provide a vector for a unique form of Denial Of Service
> attack against larger organizations in the form of a complaint-induced
> resource review.
>
> Let us please not conflate this issue with an utterly and completely
> unrelated policy effort aimed at weaponizing AfriNIC to allow one subset of
> the membership to attack another.
>
> Owen
>
>
> Regards
>
> Caleb Ogundele
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 12:17 PM <community-discuss-request at afrinic.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to
>>         community-discuss at afrinic.net
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>         https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>         community-discuss-request at afrinic.net
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>         community-discuss-owner at afrinic.net
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)
>>    2. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mike Silber)
>>    3. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Elkins)
>>    4. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Andrew Alston)
>>    5. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)
>>    6. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
>>    7. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)
>>    8. [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC (Sylvain Baya)
>>    9. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Isabel Odida)
>>   10. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
>>   11. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
>>   12. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)
>>   13. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
>>   14. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
>>   15. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
>>   16. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)
>>   17. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
>>   18. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
>>   19. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:27:42 +0200
>> From: Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu>
>> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16 at seacom.mu>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Completely agree with Sunday.
>>
>> Mark.
>>
>> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >
>> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how
>> > to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >
>> > Thanks.
>> >
>> > Sunday.
>> >
>> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
>> >> news story.
>> >>
>> >>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >>
>> >> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the moment,
>> >> I only
>> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> >> Vermeulen
>> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >> ? ? Regards,
>> >> rfg
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >>
>>
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:46:15 +0200
>> From: Mike Silber <silber.mike at gmail.com>
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
>> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>>
>> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and
>> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>>
>> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
>> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then
>> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
>> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes
>> may not have the desired outcome.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:
>> >
>> > Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >
>> > Mark.
>> >
>> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >>
>> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how
>> to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks.
>> >>
>> >> Sunday.
>> >>
>> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
>> following
>> >>> news story.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> <
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html>
>>
>> >>>   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment,
>> I only
>> >>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> Vermeulen
>> >>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >>>     Regards,
>> >>> rfg
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
>> >>>
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/1d4a9dec/attachment-0001.html
>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:59:57 +0200
>> From: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za>
>> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <007bb014-4eb8-157f-5312-f8333782f32f at posix.co.za>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>>
>> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to
>> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case (looting
>> of non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.
>>
>> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
>> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>> >
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
>> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>> >
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
>> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
>> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
>> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving
>> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.
>> >
>> > Mike
>> >
>> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu
>> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >>
>> >> Mark.
>> >>
>> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >>>
>> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see
>> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks.
>> >>>
>> >>> Sunday.
>> >>>
>> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
>> >>>> following
>> >>>> news story.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the
>> >>>> moment, I only
>> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> >>>> Vermeulen
>> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >>>> ? ? Regards,
>> >>>> rfg
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >>>>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> --
>>
>> Mark James ELKINS? -? Posix Systems - (South) Africa
>> mje at posix.co.za???? <http://mje at posix.co.za/????>?? Tel: +27.826010496 <
>> tel:+27826010496 <+27826010496>>
>> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
>>
>> Posix SystemsVCARD for MJ Elkins
>>
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>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:10:48 +0000
>> From: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
>> To: "mje at posix.co.za" <mje at posix.co.za>,
>>         "community-discuss at afrinic.net" <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID:
>>         <
>> DBBPR03MB5415D6F757C9E3BD1AE2CDE4EE5C0 at DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com
>> >
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>>
>> I would be very curious to hear from a legal perspective what - if any -
>> legal liability AfriNIC has in a situation like this.
>>
>> The fact is - space has value - and if space is stolen - used for spam or
>> whatever else - and the reputation of said space is damaged - it?s value
>> decreases.  Now I fully realize that space can be hijacked - and at that
>> point potentially the hijackers may hold the liability. However - when the
>> space seems to have been stolen and sold off by a staff member of the
>> organization that is meant in effect to the curator of the space - I
>> question if there is not a liability issue at play if it can be proven that
>> due care was not taken to safe guard against the actions taken.
>>
>> I?m no lawyer though so I would really be interested to know the legal
>> perspective - can an rir be held liable to the actions of its staff if it
>> did not adequately protect against the actions taken.
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 3:59:57 PM
>> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>>
>>
>> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to
>> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case (looting of
>> non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.
>>
>> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
>> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
>> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>>
>> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and
>> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>>
>> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
>> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then
>> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
>> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes
>> may not have the desired outcome.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu<mailto:
>> mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
>>
>> Completely agree with Sunday.
>>
>> Mark.
>>
>> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>>
>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to
>> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Sunday.
>>
>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
>> news story.
>>
>>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> <
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >
>>   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
>> only
>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen
>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>>     Regards,
>> rfg
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
>> mje at posix.co.za<mailto:mje at posix.co.za>       Tel: +27.826010496<
>> tel:+27826010496 <+27826010496>>
>> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za<
>> https://ftth.posix.co.za>
>>
>> [Posix            Systems][VCARD for            MJ Elkins]
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 15:11:04 +0200
>> From: Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu>
>> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <7fa06e69-5728-f936-ce1d-f471893ccc17 at seacom.mu>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> I don't disagree with that either.
>>
>> I am certain AFRINIC are working on this, and I know there will be no
>> shortage of queries about this from the field, much to our
>> already-clogged e-mail boxes. I don't want to do the jobs of others; no
>> one is doing mine for me.
>>
>> My preferred current focus - your last paragraph, below.
>>
>> Mark.
>>
>> On 5/Dec/19 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
>> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>> >
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
>> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>> >
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
>> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
>> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
>> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving
>> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.?
>> >
>> > Mike
>> >
>> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu
>> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >>
>> >> Mark.
>> >>
>> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >>>
>> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see
>> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks.
>> >>>
>> >>> Sunday.
>> >>>
>> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
>> >>>> following
>> >>>> news story.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the
>> >>>> moment, I only
>> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> >>>> Vermeulen
>> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >>>> ? ? Regards,
>> >>>> rfg
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >>>>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 19:54:21 +0100
>> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"
>>
>> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest
>> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy
>> space.
>>
>> The community has been informed that there is already some internal
>> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
>> done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
>> established, the law should take its course and people should stand
>> accountable for their deeds.
>>
>> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
>> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
>> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover
>> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active
>> use, why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for
>> the common good?
>>
>> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
>> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.
>>
>> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
>> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
>> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
>> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
>> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our
>> time and intellect.
>>
>> Sunday.
>>
>> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
>> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>> >
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
>> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>> >
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
>> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
>> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
>> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving
>> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.
>> >
>> > Mike
>> >
>> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu
>> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >>
>> >> Mark.
>> >>
>> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >>>
>> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see
>> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks.
>> >>>
>> >>> Sunday.
>> >>>
>> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
>> >>>> following
>> >>>> news story.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the
>> >>>> moment, I only
>> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> >>>> Vermeulen
>> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >>>> ? ? Regards,
>> >>>> rfg
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >>>>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>> --
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
>> Managing Director
>> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
>> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
>> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
>> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>> URL: <
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/118317f5/attachment-0001.html
>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:15:59 +0200
>> From: Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>
>> To: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
>> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID:
>>         <CAG1eoi3w-F2Ui-BfiKmBqYJ=
>> srHdvBJx2F5vS2k__asGCVTwVw at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> I have to agree with this. As shocking and disappointing as the
>> revelations
>> might be, this makes the most sense to me.
>>
>> Omo
>>
>> On Thu, 5 Dec 2019, 20:56 Sunday Folayan, <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest
>> > that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy
>> > space.
>> >
>> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal
>> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
>> done.
>> > I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
>> established,
>> > the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for
>> > their deeds.
>> >
>> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
>> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
>> > years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover
>> > the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active
>> use,
>> > why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for the
>> > common good?
>> >
>> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
>> > department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by
>> now.
>> >
>> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
>> of
>> > the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, with
>> > the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather
>> > apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for
>> > developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and
>> > intellect.
>> > Sunday.
>> >
>> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
>> >
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
>> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>> >
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
>> and
>> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>> >
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
>> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and
>> then
>> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
>> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those
>> processes
>> > may not have the desired outcome.
>> >
>> > Mike
>> >
>> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:
>> >
>> > Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >
>> > Mark.
>> >
>> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >
>> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >
>> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to
>> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >
>> > Thanks.
>> >
>> > Sunday.
>> >
>> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >
>> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
>> > news story.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
>> > only
>> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> Vermeulen
>> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >     Regards,
>> > rfg
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://
>> lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> > --
>> > --------------------------------------------------
>> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan
>> > Managing Director
>> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
>> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
>> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
>> > Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
>> > ---------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/582fac38/attachment-0001.html
>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:28:06 +0100
>> From: Sylvain Baya <abscoco at gmail.com>
>> To: "mje at posix.co.za" <mje at posix.co.za>,
>>         "community-discuss at afrinic.net" <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: [Community-Discuss] [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID:
>>         <
>> CAJjTEvE+sHgdAsJUO4D1pYe1eEwCk6WEMosvhknZqS+AwyF6Kg at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Le jeudi 5 d?cembre 2019, Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za> a ?crit :
>>
>> > Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to
>> > manipulate the non-legacy space -
>> >
>>
>> Dear Mark,
>> ...i agree !
>>
>> yet it happened. In this case (looting of non-legacy space), the RSA has
>> > meant nothing.
>> >
>>
>> As you say, i take you on words ; then if the RSA (Registration Service
>> Agreement) could
>> easily be bypassed, how to deal with our 'emerged' problem ?
>>
>> ...perhaps time to seriously reconsider the long life DPP (Draft Policy
>> Proposal) [1] ?
>> __
>> [1]: <https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2016-gen-001-d8/amp>
>>
>> Shalom,
>> --sb.
>>
>> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
>> >
>> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
>> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>> >
>> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
>> and
>> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>> >
>> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
>> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and
>> then
>> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
>> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those
>> processes
>> > may not have the desired outcome.
>> >
>> > Mike
>> >
>> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:
>> >
>> > Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >
>> > Mark.
>> >
>> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >
>> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >
>> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to
>> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >
>> > Thanks.
>> >
>> > Sunday.
>> >
>> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >
>> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
>> > news story.
>> >
>> > https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-
>> >
>> resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
>> > only
>> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> Vermeulen
>> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >     Regards,
>> > rfg
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://
>> lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> > Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
>> > mje at posix.co.za       Tel: +27.826010496 <+27826010496>
>> > For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
>> >
>> > [image: Posix Systems][image: VCARD for MJ Elkins]
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> --
>> Best Regards !
>> baya.sylvain [AT cmNOG DOT cm] | <https://www.cmnog.cm> | <
>> https://survey.cmnog.cm>
>> Subscribe to Mailing List : <
>> https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/>
>> __
>> #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|?#?Romains15?:33?*Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec
>> vous tous! ?#?Amen?!*?
>> ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement?
>> ?*Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire
>> apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!*? (#Psaumes42:2)
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 9
>> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 23:43:48 +0100
>> From: Isabel Odida <isabel.odida at gmail.com>
>> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
>> Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii
>>
>> I know what sparked this story. Some people have no chill. How convenient
>> following the last meeting in June. Ok, and then what? What have you
>> benefited?
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On 4 Dec 2019, at 18:23, Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
>> > news story.
>> >
>> >
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >
>> > I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
>> only
>> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> Vermeulen
>> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > rfg
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 10
>> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 14:44:58 -0800
>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <18818.1575585898 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> In message <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>,
>> Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >The community has been informed that there is already some internal
>> >investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
>> >done.
>>
>> Mr. Folayan,
>>
>> These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,
>> 2019, a full three months ago.  Since that time there has not been a
>> single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,
>> or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague assurances
>> that these matters are being looked into.
>>
>> Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns
>> about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full
>> three years ago.
>>
>>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html
>>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html
>>     https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html
>>
>> I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again
>> repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,
>> albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention
>> paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any
>> concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.
>>
>>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html
>>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html
>>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html
>>
>> At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly
>> in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive
>> issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to
>> entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it
>> were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the
>> courageous reporting of MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/>.
>> Neither the board nor
>> the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any
>> clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will
>> either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders
>> and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive
>> any of the findings that it may reach.  And yet despite having had
>> either three full months or three full years to look into these
>> matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and
>> despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming
>> from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel patience.
>>
>> This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the
>> community's patience to come to an end?  Does the community have any
>> assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another
>> three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield
>> anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the
>> current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions
>> of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?
>>
>> On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at long
>> last be forthcoming?
>>
>> >I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
>> >established, the law should take its course and people should stand
>> >accountable for their deeds.
>>
>> This assertion on your part begs four further questions:
>>
>> 1)  Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been presented
>> in the MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/> article, the
>> majority of which were drawn from
>> publicly available sources including open government records, what more
>> will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and intentions
>> are established"?  What parts of the abundant documentary evidence already
>> presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?
>>
>> 2)  If, as asserted in the MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/>
>> article, it can be persuasively
>> demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in fact
>> purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that AFRINIC
>> itself is one of the aggrieved parties?  And if so, would you hope and
>> expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and
>> all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?
>>
>> 3)  Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and
>> endemic
>> within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do you
>> have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all
>> likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?
>>
>> 4)  What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-
>> documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks from
>> AFRINIC's own free pool?  Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed by
>> AFRINIC?  Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever they
>> may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten booty
>> on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?
>>
>> >I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
>> >organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
>> >years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover
>> >the manipulations.
>>
>> On this point, you and I are in complete agreement.  "The system", such
>> as it is, is quite self-evidently broken.  But this raises the further
>> question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at
>> AFRINIC,
>> while all of this was going on.  Is it even plausible that a single bad
>> actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars
>> worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a
>> several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC
>> staff even noticed any of this?
>>
>> >For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
>> >department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by
>> now.
>>
>> See above.  Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced with
>> respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself.  No other
>> single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much
>> valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself.  And yet we have, as yet, no
>> clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any staff
>> member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone
>> that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated
>> by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.
>>
>> If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new dictionary.
>>
>> >While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
>> >of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
>> >with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
>> >rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
>> >available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our
>> >time and intellect.
>>
>> See above.  With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we
>> may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"?  I have
>> so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any
>> document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member of
>> AFRINIC.  In fact, quite the opposite.  I see that a purported three
>> month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth publicly
>> reporting on so far.  I see an attempt to shift the blame for this
>> colossal
>> and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders
>> while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of
>> AFRINIC itself.  I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action
>> will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a
>> backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a general
>> disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific
>> national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.
>>
>> For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances misplaced,
>> Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.
>> The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and
>> to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or
>> placed
>> under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to all.
>> AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding
>> responsibility.
>>
>> I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and effectively
>> remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still ongoing
>> after-effects.  I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now
>> evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the carpet
>> will no longer be considered a vialble option.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> rfg
>>
>>
>> P.S.  I must strenuously object to your use of the word "whistleblower" in
>> this context Mr. Folayan.  That term is usually used in reference to some
>> insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed
>> first-hand some malfeasance.  Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this
>> description.  Rather, we have labored as outsiders only.  We have not
>> been privy to any "inside" information.  Quite the opposite in fact.  We
>> have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable requests
>> for information by AFRINIC staff.
>>
>> Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our
>> reasonable
>> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.
>> Exactly
>> such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four other
>> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists upon
>> request.  When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such unredacted
>> WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were rejected
>> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved policy
>> was cited as the basis for the denial.
>>
>> At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate explanation
>> for
>> this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to be
>> granted at long last.  Certain portions of my research cannot be completed
>> without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved basis
>> for
>> the rejection of such requests.
>>
>>
>> P.P.S.  As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the
>> numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place.  I feel
>> compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively been
>> double-victimized in at least two specific instances.
>>
>> First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large IPv4
>> blocks "liberated" from its free pool.  Secondarily and even more
>> insultingly
>> however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also
>> arranged
>> to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be associated
>> with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other
>> legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired IPv4
>> allocations.
>>
>> I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy 168.80.0.0/15 block,
>> registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the
>> non-legacy
>> 196.16.0.0/14 block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization.
>> These
>> blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six million
>> U.S. dollars.
>>
>> As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD
>> mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as MEMBER-ONLY,
>> as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold any
>> actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees to
>> AFRINIC.
>>
>> I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in this
>> regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it does
>> appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have -both-
>> stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for years
>> on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be due
>> on these IPv4 assignments.
>>
>> Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further
>> clarification
>> with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have been
>> collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned, for
>> any year since their allocation to and association with the organizations
>> noted.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 11
>> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 17:24:26 -0800
>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
>> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <19435.1575595466 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> In message <6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com>,
>> Isabel Odida <isabel.odida at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >I know what sparked this story.
>>
>> If you have something to say, then you have our attention and the floor.
>> Please proceed.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> rfg
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 12
>> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 10:04:06 +0100
>> From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Hi Sunday, all,
>>
>>
>>
>> I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let me
>> tell why.
>>
>>
>>
>> I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My first
>> AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly after,
>> during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could contribute to
>> the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and joining Ernest in his
>> trips to do the Registration Services training so I do IPv6 trainings.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos, I
>> was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the Madrid
>> Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from Sunday, I could
>> resolve that on the next day and flight again to do the training.
>>
>>
>>
>> My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that,
>> and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been doing
>> those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been able to take
>> advantage of that.
>>
>>
>>
>> The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as well
>> as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much together,
>> you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost 15 years. Of
>> course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a hidden face. As
>> humans, we all have positive and negative things. But I?m really shocked, I
>> still resist to believe it.
>>
>>
>>
>> I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the position
>> of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use
>> your own name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe
>> someone,? may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to
>> appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly and
>> non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean he is
>> still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or something
>> similar.
>>
>>
>>
>> Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents. If
>> you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be enough.
>>
>>
>>
>> So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation, and
>> may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and
>> involvement an all this.
>>
>>
>>
>> Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal interest.
>> My only interest is to know the *real true* and I?m sure everybody agrees
>> on that.
>>
>>
>>
>> Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so no
>> doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very
>> thankful for that.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jordi
>>
>> @jordipalet
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <sfolayan at gmail.com> escribi?:
>>
>>
>>
>> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest
>> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy
>> space.
>>
>> The community has been informed that there is already some internal
>> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things done.
>> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are established,
>> the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for
>> their deeds.
>>
>> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
>> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
>> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover
>> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active use,
>> why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for the
>> common good?
>>
>> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
>> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.
>>
>> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf of
>> the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, with
>> the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather
>> apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for
>> developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and
>> intellect.
>>
>> Sunday.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
>>
>> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
>> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>>
>>
>>
>> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and
>> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>>
>>
>>
>> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
>> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then
>> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
>> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes
>> may not have the desired outcome.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Completely agree with Sunday.
>>
>> Mark.
>>
>> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>>
>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>>
>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to
>> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Sunday.
>>
>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>>
>>
>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
>> news story.
>>
>>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>>   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
>> only
>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen
>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>>     Regards,
>> rfg
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> --
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
>> Managing Director
>> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
>> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
>> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
>> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing
>> list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>>
>>
>> **********************************************
>> IPv4 is over
>> Are you ready for the new Internet ?
>> http://www.theipv6company.com
>> The IPv6 Company
>>
>> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or
>> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of
>> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized
>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
>> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly
>> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the
>> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 13
>> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 10:16:03 +0100
>> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
>> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>, General Discussions
>>         of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>>
>> Dear Mr Guilmette,
>>
>> Regrettably, I do not monitor the press, but selected channels such as
>> this list. It seems I got your attention, or you got my attention, or we
>> both got each other's attention. Let us therefore maximize the possession.
>>
>> Important and interesting questions, that you have raised in this email.
>> Let us put some punch in it. Kindly change the TO: field to
>> ceo at afrinic.net, and cc the Community just to make sure it is not
>> ignored, then resend it. I am sure the CEO will answer all the questions
>> you here posed to me. Pity he has to start his tenure with these hard
>> nuts and curveballs, but he is capable. He speaks for the Company, not me.
>>
>> I am equally sure that the Community appreciates the great work done,
>> and no one supports the exposed fraud. You are a stakeholder, and not
>> some casual bystander so please note this. What you conveniently
>> ignored, is that the #1 accused company insider is the eye of the
>> company on the policy lists, where you raised the issues.
>>
>> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should
>> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more
>> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking stakeholder.
>> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.
>>
>> My use of the term "Whistleblowers" is appropriate, as I looked at one
>> of your reference links, and indeed, someone confirmed to you privately
>> that your hunch is right. If you do not claim the honour, they should,
>> because you rightly built on their work!
>>
>> Great job you are doing.
>>
>> Have a great day.
>>
>> Sunday.
>>
>> On 05/12/2019 23:44, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> > In message <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>,
>> > Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal
>> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
>> >> done.
>> > Mr. Folayan,
>> >
>> > These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,
>> > 2019, a full three months ago.  Since that time there has not been a
>> > single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,
>> > or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague
>> assurances
>> > that these matters are being looked into.
>> >
>> > Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns
>> > about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full
>> > three years ago.
>> >
>> >
>> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html
>> >
>> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html
>> >      https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html
>> >
>> > I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again
>> > repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,
>> > albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention
>> > paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any
>> > concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.
>> >
>> >      https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html
>> >      https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html
>> >      https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html
>> >
>> > At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly
>> > in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive
>> > issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to
>> > entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it
>> > were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the
>> > courageous reporting of MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/>.
>> Neither the board nor
>> > the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any
>> > clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will
>> > either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders
>> > and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive
>> > any of the findings that it may reach.  And yet despite having had
>> > either three full months or three full years to look into these
>> > matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and
>> > despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming
>> > from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel patience.
>> >
>> > This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the
>> > community's patience to come to an end?  Does the community have any
>> > assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another
>> > three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield
>> > anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the
>> > current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions
>> > of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?
>> >
>> > On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at
>> long
>> > last be forthcoming?
>> >
>> >> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
>> >> established, the law should take its course and people should stand
>> >> accountable for their deeds.
>> > This assertion on your part begs four further questions:
>> >
>> > 1)  Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been presented
>> > in the MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/> article, the
>> majority of which were drawn from
>> > publicly available sources including open government records, what more
>> > will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and
>> intentions
>> > are established"?  What parts of the abundant documentary evidence
>> already
>> > presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?
>> >
>> > 2)  If, as asserted in the MyBroadband.co.za
>> <http://mybroadband.co.za/> article, it can be persuasively
>> > demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in
>> fact
>> > purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that AFRINIC
>> > itself is one of the aggrieved parties?  And if so, would you hope and
>> > expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and
>> > all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?
>> >
>> > 3)  Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and
>> endemic
>> > within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do
>> you
>> > have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all
>> > likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?
>> >
>> > 4)  What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-
>> > documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks from
>> > AFRINIC's own free pool?  Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed
>> by
>> > AFRINIC?  Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever
>> they
>> > may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten booty
>> > on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?
>> >
>> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
>> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
>> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to
>> discover
>> >> the manipulations.
>> > On this point, you and I are in complete agreement.  "The system", such
>> > as it is, is quite self-evidently broken.  But this raises the further
>> > question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at
>> AFRINIC,
>> > while all of this was going on.  Is it even plausible that a single bad
>> > actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars
>> > worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a
>> > several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC
>> > staff even noticed any of this?
>> >
>> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
>> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by
>> now.
>> > See above.  Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced with
>> > respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself.  No other
>> > single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much
>> > valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself.  And yet we have, as yet, no
>> > clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any staff
>> > member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone
>> > that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated
>> > by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.
>> >
>> > If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new dictionary.
>> >
>> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
>> >> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
>> >> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
>> >> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
>> >> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of
>> our
>> >> time and intellect.
>> > See above.  With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we
>> > may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"?  I
>> have
>> > so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any
>> > document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member of
>> > AFRINIC.  In fact, quite the opposite.  I see that a purported three
>> > month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth publicly
>> > reporting on so far.  I see an attempt to shift the blame for this
>> colossal
>> > and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders
>> > while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of
>> > AFRINIC itself.  I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action
>> > will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a
>> > backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a general
>> > disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific
>> > national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.
>> >
>> > For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances misplaced,
>> > Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.
>> > The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and
>> > to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or
>> placed
>> > under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to
>> all.
>> > AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding
>> responsibility.
>> >
>> > I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and effectively
>> > remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still ongoing
>> > after-effects.  I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now
>> > evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the
>> carpet
>> > will no longer be considered a vialble option.
>> >
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> > rfg
>> >
>> >
>> > P.S.  I must strenuously object to your use of the word "whistleblower"
>> in
>> > this context Mr. Folayan.  That term is usually used in reference to
>> some
>> > insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed
>> > first-hand some malfeasance.  Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this
>> > description.  Rather, we have labored as outsiders only.  We have not
>> > been privy to any "inside" information.  Quite the opposite in fact.  We
>> > have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable requests
>> > for information by AFRINIC staff.
>> >
>> > Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our
>> reasonable
>> > requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.
>> Exactly
>> > such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four other
>> > Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists
>> upon
>> > request.  When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such
>> unredacted
>> > WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were
>> rejected
>> > out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved
>> policy
>> > was cited as the basis for the denial.
>> >
>> > At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate
>> explanation for
>> > this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to be
>> > granted at long last.  Certain portions of my research cannot be
>> completed
>> > without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved basis
>> for
>> > the rejection of such requests.
>> >
>> >
>> > P.P.S.  As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the
>> > numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place.  I feel
>> > compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively been
>> > double-victimized in at least two specific instances.
>> >
>> > First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large IPv4
>> > blocks "liberated" from its free pool.  Secondarily and even more
>> insultingly
>> > however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also
>> arranged
>> > to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be
>> associated
>> > with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other
>> > legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired IPv4
>> > allocations.
>> >
>> > I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy 168.80.0.0/15
>> block,
>> > registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the
>> non-legacy
>> > 196.16.0.0/14 block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization.
>> These
>> > blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six
>> million
>> > U.S. dollars.
>> >
>> > As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD
>> > mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as
>> MEMBER-ONLY,
>> > as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold any
>> > actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees to
>> > AFRINIC.
>> >
>> > I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in this
>> > regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it
>> does
>> > appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have -both-
>> > stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for years
>> > on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be
>> due
>> > on these IPv4 assignments.
>> >
>> > Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further
>> clarification
>> > with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have been
>> > collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned, for
>> > any year since their allocation to and association with the
>> organizations
>> > noted.
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>> --
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
>> Managing Director
>> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
>> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
>> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
>> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 14
>> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:07:01 -0800
>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <21084.1575626821 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> Mr. Folayan,
>>
>> Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful response.
>>
>> At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and beyond
>> what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.
>>
>>
>> In message <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>,
>> Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should
>> >conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more
>> >honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking stakeholder.
>> >It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.
>>
>> Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.
>>
>> Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to see
>> the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC.  That is quite certainly not a
>> goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as
>> you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder
>> should wish for.  AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global
>> Internet governance.  I cannot even envision things as being otherwise.
>> No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a
>> few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second.  And to use an
>> even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing
>> smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more than
>> I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the plains.
>>
>> If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was being
>> formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested
>> that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already
>> sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it, being
>> preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere.  Now I may stand on the comfortable
>> shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but
>> I do not question the utility of the journey.
>>
>> The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think, matters
>> of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose.  Time will
>> tell if that is an accurate assesment.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> rfg
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 15
>> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:14:31 +0100
>> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
>> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>, General
>>         Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <8d06cf43-7c72-07df-e510-96917cd8e0ed at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>>
>> Good points Jordi, and thanks for the throwback on the very many amazing
>> sacrifices we all made, to grow the Internet in Africa.
>>
>> I will resist asking Ernest to defend himself here, We are not
>> constituted as a competent jury, neither do we want to compromise the
>> ongoing investigations.
>>
>> Questions are appropriate, so will be his own admissions or rebuttals,
>> when the investigations are completed.
>>
>> I may be wrong, but that is my own expectations and position.
>>
>> Sunday.
>>
>> On 06/12/2019 10:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi Sunday, all,
>> >
>> > I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let
>> > me tell why.
>> >
>> > I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My
>> > first AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly
>> > after, during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could
>> > contribute to the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and
>> > joining Ernest in his trips to do the Registration Services training
>> > so I do IPv6 trainings.
>> >
>> > Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos,
>> > I was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the
>> > Madrid Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from
>> > Sunday, I could resolve that on the next day and flight again to do
>> > the training.
>> >
>> > My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that,
>> > and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been
>> > doing those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been
>> > able to take advantage of that.
>> >
>> > The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as
>> > well as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much
>> > together, you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost
>> > 15 years. Of course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a
>> > hidden face. As humans, we all have positive and negative things. But
>> > I?m really shocked, I still resist to believe it.
>> >
>> > I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the
>> > position of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think
>> > you will use your own name for registering companies, or instead you
>> > will bribe someone, may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your
>> > family name to appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly
>> > and non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean
>> > he is still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or
>> > something similar.
>> >
>> > Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents.
>> > If you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be enough.
>> >
>> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,
>> > and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and
>> > involvement an all this.
>> >
>> > Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal
>> > interest. My only interest is to know the **real true** and I?m sure
>> > everybody agrees on that.
>> >
>> > Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so
>> > no doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very
>> > thankful for that.
>> >
>> > Regards,
>> >
>> > Jordi
>> >
>> > @jordipalet
>> >
>> > El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <sfolayan at gmail.com
>> > <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>> escribi?:
>> >
>> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway
>> > suggest that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only
>> > on legacy space.
>> >
>> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal
>> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
>> > done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
>> > established, the law should take its course and people should stand
>> > accountable for their deeds.
>> >
>> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
>> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of
>> > 7 years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to
>> > discover the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or
>> > in active use, why would or should they not have been returned to the
>> > Registry for the common good?
>> >
>> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their
>> > legal department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with
>> > gusto by now.
>> >
>> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
>> > of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
>> > with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
>> > rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
>> > available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of
>> > our time and intellect.
>> >
>> > Sunday.
>> >
>> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
>> >
>> >     Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there
>> >     appears to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy
>> >     space.
>> >
>> >     I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the
>> >     problem and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>> >
>> >     It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
>> >     space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
>> >     mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
>> >     legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then
>> >     moving legacy space under those processes may not have the desired
>> >     outcome.
>> >
>> >     Mike
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >         On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu
>> >         <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
>> >
>> >         Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >
>> >         Mark.
>> >
>> >         On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >
>> >             Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically
>> >             ancient squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet
>> >             in Africa, AfriNIC Services and bringing legacy spaces
>> >             under some form of RSA?
>> >
>> >             I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let
>> >             us see how to help and empower the people doing useful
>> >             work for Africa.
>> >
>> >             Thanks.
>> >
>> >             Sunday.
>> >
>> >             On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >
>> >                 I hope you all will take the time to read and think
>> >                 about the following
>> >                 news story.
>> >
>> >
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >
>> >                 ? I will have more to say about this in due course.?
>> >                 For the moment, I only
>> >                 wish to say that the investigation undertaken by
>> >                 myself and Jan Vermeulen
>> >                 is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >                 ? ? Regards,
>> >                 rfg
>> >
>> >
>> >                 _______________________________________________
>> >                 Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >                 Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >                 <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> >
>> >         _______________________________________________
>> >         Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >         Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >         <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >         https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >     _______________________________________________
>> >
>> >     Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >
>> >     Community-Discuss at afrinic.net  <mailto:
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >
>> >     https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> > --
>> > --------------------------------------------------
>> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan
>> > Managing Director
>> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
>> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
>> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
>> > Email:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng  <mailto:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng>,
>> sfolayan at gmail.com  <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>
>> > ---------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss
>> > mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> >
>> > **********************************************
>> > IPv4 is over
>> > Are you ready for the new Internet ?
>> > http://www.theipv6company.com
>> > The IPv6 Company
>> >
>> > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged
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>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>> --
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
>> Managing Director
>> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
>> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
>> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
>> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>
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>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/8c6c63d5/attachment-0001.html
>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 16
>> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 12:17:52 +0200
>> From: Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>
>> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>
>> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>>
>>
>> > On 6 Dec 2019, at 11:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss <
>> community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,
>> and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and
>> involvement an all this.
>> >
>>
>>
>> :-)  Might as well setup a confession booth and provide absolution of
>> souls.  On a serious note, we need a proper investigation.  Let?s wait to
>> hear from the CEO
>>
>> Omo
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 17
>> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:21:40 +0100
>> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
>> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>, General Discussions
>>         of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <c071ab53-ba47-a98a-8e28-d97187ae8c10 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>>
>> Dear Mr Guilmette,
>>
>> On 06/12/2019 11:07, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> > Mr. Folayan,
>> >
>> > Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful
>> response.
>> >
>> > At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and beyond
>> > what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.
>> >
>> >
>> > In message <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>,
>> > Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should
>> >> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more
>> >> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking
>> stakeholder.
>> >> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.
>> > Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.
>> >
>> > Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to see
>> > the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC.  That is quite certainly not a
>> > goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as
>> > you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder
>> > should wish for.  AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global
>> > Internet governance.  I cannot even envision things as being otherwise.
>> > No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a
>> > few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second.  And to use an
>> > even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing
>> > smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more than
>> > I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the plains.
>> >
>> > If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was being
>> > formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested
>> > that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already
>> > sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it, being
>> > preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere.  Now I may stand on the comfortable
>> > shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but
>> > I do not question the utility of the journey.
>> >
>> > The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think, matters
>> > of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose.  Time will
>> > tell if that is an accurate assesment.
>>
>>
>> This is most assuring and comforting at the same time.
>>
>> If I have sounded off-key, please accept my sincere apologies, and thank
>> you very much for the good job you have done for the community so far.
>> History will never forget your role and progressive disposition at this
>> point in time.
>>
>> When AfriNIC was being formed, the challenges of today, were not
>> envisioned in the very many ways that they now present themselves.
>> Africa has come a long way. Unfortunately, there are still many more
>> oceans to cross, but we will all band together as a purposeful fleet.
>> That is how we can all weather the storms that may come, but sure they
>> will come.
>>
>> With kind Regards ...
>>
>> Sunday.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 18
>> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:58:27 -0800
>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <21283.1575629907 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> In message <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es>,
>> JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es> wrote:
>>
>> >I also believe that he is a smart guy.
>>
>> I would not dispute that characterization in the slightest.
>>
>> >So, put yourself in the position of
>> >a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use
>> your o
>> >wn name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe
>> someone,=C2=A0
>> > may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to appear in
>> an
>> >y documents? I feel this is really silly and non-understandable.
>>
>> And yet it seemed to work, for years on end, with no one raising so much
>> as an eyebrow because nobody seriously investigated or seriously looked
>> at all of the relevant corporate documents and WHOIS records and, in
>> particular, the historical WHOIS records, including but not limited to
>> these ones:
>>
>> ORG-AI2-AFRINIC     https://pastebin.com/raw/7rqfP1LD
>> ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC   https://pastebin.com/raw/Nx79QkgB
>> ORG-IA41-AFRINIC    https://pastebin.com/raw/ynEXMyCP
>> ORG-ZZ139-AFRINIC   https://pastebin.com/raw/GX5egcbW
>> ORG-ZZ23-AFRINIC    https://pastebin.com/raw/Yu8K9z6N
>>
>> I have been chasing down miscreants on the Internet for more than 20 years
>> now.  One of the lessons I have learned in that time is that none of them
>> are ten feet tall, and the majority of them absolutely suck at OPSEC.  It
>> is almost as if some part of them is deluding their own brains into the
>> false belief that what they are doing is not really wrong, in some
>> sense, and that they are somehow actually entitled to the stuff they are
>> stealing, and that thus, at some level, they don't actually need to hide
>> what they are doing all that throughly, because just as White House Chief
>> of Staff Mick Mulvaney did not long ago... much to the shock of
>> everyone...
>> if they are ever caught and confronted they assume that they will just say
>> "Yea.  So?  We do that all of the time.  Get over it!"
>>
>> >So maybe
>> >somebody used him, which doesn=E2=80=99t mean he is still guilty
>> =E2=80=9Cin
>> >vigilando=E2=80=9D because he trusted anyone else, or something similar.
>>
>> It's a nice thought, and you are a generous person to allow this
>> possibility
>> Jordi.  All I can say is that other information, not yet made public,
>> appears to rule out the possibility that Mr. Byaruhanga was either an
>> unwitting stooge or a convenient fall guy.
>>
>> >Do we believe in =E2=80=9Cpresumption of innocence=E2=80=9D? I do,
>> despite
>> >documents. If you don=E2=80=99t know the complete background, documents
>> may
>> >not be enough.
>>
>> I agree.
>>
>> That having been said, I hope that you will, as I have, spend some time
>> carefully scrutinizing both the current and historical WHOIS records
>> associated with the ORGanizations and the IPv4 blocks listed in the two
>> tables in Jan's article.  If you do that, I think that you will be, as
>> I was, hard pressed to explain all of the quite glaring anomalies in
>> any way that does not involve a great deal of very deliberate malfesance
>> on somebody's part.  Once you are convinced of that, then the question
>> becomes:  Who is responsible?  And it is at that point that the various
>> official governmental corporate registration records would seem to become
>> very relevant.
>>
>> >So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation, and
>> >may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and
>> involvement
>> >an all this.
>>
>> I would like to echo that sentiment.
>>
>> Jan Vermeulen and myself have tried, repeatedly, and over some significant
>> time now to reach him, both via voice, at a number of different phone
>> numbers
>> that we have identified as being associated with him, and also via email,
>> at various of his known email addresses, and we have been utterly unable
>> to
>> do so.  We both very much look forward to speaking with him and getting
>> his
>> side of the story, if he has one.
>>
>> That having been said, we cannot be blamed, I think, for reaching certain
>> reasonable conclusions when Jan's industry sources informed him, less than
>> a day after I had attempted to confront Ernest, via email, with the facts
>> arrayed against him, that he had abruptly resigned his position at AFRINIC
>> after 15 years on the job.
>>
>> His abrupt resignation was and remains his only apparent response to our
>> inquiries.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> rfg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 19
>> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 03:16:57 -0800
>> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
>> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> Message-ID: <21648.1575631017 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>> In message <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net>,
>> Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net> wrote:
>>
>> >On a serious note, we need a proper investigation.  Let's
>> >wait to hear from the CEO
>>
>> Have any of us been doing otherwise, for lo these past three months now?
>>
>> Have we been afforded any other choice in the matter?
>>
>> Can AFRINIC clean its own stables?
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> rfg
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1
>> *************************************************
>>
>
>
> --
> *Ogundele Olumuyiwa Caleb*
> *muyiwacaleb at gmail.com <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>*
> *234 - 8077377378*
> *234 - 07030777969*
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
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From ubah.tonyiyke at gmail.com  Tue Dec 10 16:44:39 2019
From: ubah.tonyiyke at gmail.com (Anthony Ubah)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 17:44:39 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 551, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1860.1575986283.5925.community-discuss@afrinic.net>
References: <mailman.1860.1575986283.5925.community-discuss@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <CAHcb0ASgpJL0_S-jRAcNhyDFmfK8hVh9chFJAsKTAHnL5GKsiQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Caleb and Arnaud,



I?m confused about your insinuation on this with respect to the solving the
problem at hand. From the surface value, it looks like a very good policy.
However, I still struggle to decipher with the practicality of implementing
the Internet Number Resource review policy, and the consequences in the
real world.

African is a region of complex and opaque soc-political systems.
Introducing such complex policies will most likely not lead to an abuse of
power, over-policing, and victimization. Introducing a Gestapo style
policing will create a cancerous system which will be unfavorable to the
region? as a whole.

I was at the at just concluded meeting where this policy was
re-represented, giving the feedback from the community, I hoped to see a
revised version but alas! it was the same.



*Best Regards,*

*ANTHONY *

E-mail: anthony.ubah at goldspine.com <anthony.ubah at gloworld.com>.ng


On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 2:58 PM <community-discuss-request at afrinic.net>
wrote:

> Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to
>         community-discuss at afrinic.net
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>         https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         community-discuss-request at afrinic.net
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>         community-discuss-owner at afrinic.net
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1 (Arnaud AMELINA)
>    2. Re: Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1 (Arnaud AMELINA)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:48:37 +0000
> From: Arnaud AMELINA <amelnaud at gmail.com>
> To: Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>
> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547,
>         Issue 1
> Message-ID:
>         <CAGDMR_cXHVW34SOD40wNBOrhiVOzR1-p+=
> CPTkSvfPCLee3mPw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> +1 to Caleb as you say it, it's time to find consensus on review policy.
>
> Regard
>
> --
> Arnaud
>
> Le ven. 6 d?c. 2019 ? 15:48, Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <
> muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>
> a ?crit :
>
> > Dear Ronald,
> >
> > So I read where this comment below was attributed to you.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *>?Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our
> > reasonable> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS
> > database.  Exactly> such unredacted database dumps *are* provided by all
> of
> > the four other> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and
> > journalists upon> request.  When we submitted repeated requests for
> exactly
> > such unredacted> WHOIS database dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our
> > requests were rejected> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any
> > community-approved policy> was cited as the basis for the denial.?*
> > While not taking brief for AFRINIC or any of its staff, I feel you should
> > know that AFRINIC?s operation is also being governed by Mauritius data
> > protection law.
> > Mauritius regulates data protection under the Data Protection Act 2017
> > (DPA 2017 or Act), proclaimed through Proclamation No. 3 of 2018,
> effective
> > January 15, 2018. The Act repeals and replaces the Data Protection Act
> > 2004, so as to align with the European Union General Data Protection
> > Regulation 2016/679 (GDPR).
> >
> > Even if you are not familiar with Mauritius law, the EU GDPR which is
> more
> > popular should tell you the implication of revealing a WHOIS database to
> a
> > non-state prosecutorial actor like yourself who does not have a court
> > warrant to see the redacted sections you seek. Please correct me if I?m
> > wrong in my legal analysis of your request.
> >
> > Perhaps, isn?t it time for the community to revisit the Internet Number
> > Resources review policy
> > <https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal> which was not
> > on the docket for policy at this just-concluded meeting?
> > https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal
> >
> > We might be doing something right this time if that policy will allow for
> > a diligent review of resources including the legacy ones.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Caleb Ogundele
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 12:17 PM <community-discuss-request at afrinic.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to
> >>         community-discuss at afrinic.net
> >>
> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >>         https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >>         community-discuss-request at afrinic.net
> >>
> >> You can reach the person managing the list at
> >>         community-discuss-owner at afrinic.net
> >>
> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> >> than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..."
> >>
> >>
> >> Today's Topics:
> >>
> >>    1. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)
> >>    2. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mike Silber)
> >>    3. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Elkins)
> >>    4. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Andrew Alston)
> >>    5. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)
> >>    6. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
> >>    7. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)
> >>    8. [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC (Sylvain Baya)
> >>    9. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Isabel Odida)
> >>   10. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
> >>   11. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
> >>   12. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)
> >>   13. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
> >>   14. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
> >>   15. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
> >>   16. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)
> >>   17. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
> >>   18. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
> >>   19. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 1
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:27:42 +0200
> >> From: Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu>
> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16 at seacom.mu>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >>
> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
> >>
> >> Mark.
> >>
> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >> >
> >> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how
> >> > to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks.
> >> >
> >> > Sunday.
> >> >
> >> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
> following
> >> >> news story.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> >> >>
> >> >> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the moment,
> >> >> I only
> >> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> >> >> Vermeulen
> >> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >> >> ? ? Regards,
> >> >> rfg
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> >>
> >>
> >> -------------- next part --------------
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> >> URL: <
> >>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/7f6aa1b8/attachment-0001.html
> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 2
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:46:15 +0200
> >> From: Mike Silber <silber.mike at gmail.com>
> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3 at gmail.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
> >> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >>
> >> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
> and
> >> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >>
> >> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
> >> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and
> then
> >> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
> >> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those
> processes
> >> may not have the desired outcome.
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Completely agree with Sunday.
> >> >
> >> > Mark.
> >> >
> >> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >> >>
> >> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how
> >> to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks.
> >> >>
> >> >> Sunday.
> >> >>
> >> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> >>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
> >> following
> >> >>> news story.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >>
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> >> <
> >>
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> >
> >>
> >> >>>   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment,
> >> I only
> >> >>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> >> Vermeulen
> >> >>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >> >>>     Regards,
> >> >>> rfg
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >
> >> >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> >>>
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >>
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> URL: <
> >>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/1d4a9dec/attachment-0001.html
> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 3
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:59:57 +0200
> >> From: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za>
> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <007bb014-4eb8-157f-5312-f8333782f32f at posix.co.za>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
> >>
> >> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to
> >> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case (looting
> >> of non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.
> >>
> >> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
> >> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >> >
> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
> >> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >> >
> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
> >> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
> >> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
> >> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving
> >> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.
> >> >
> >> > Mike
> >> >
> >> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu
> >> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
> >> >>
> >> >> Mark.
> >> >>
> >> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see
> >> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Thanks.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Sunday.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
> >> >>>> following
> >> >>>> news story.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >>
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the
> >> >>>> moment, I only
> >> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> >> >>>> Vermeulen
> >> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >> >>>> ? ? Regards,
> >> >>>> rfg
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> >>>>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> --
> >>
> >> Mark James ELKINS? -? Posix Systems - (South) Africa
> >> mje at posix.co.za?????? Tel: +27.826010496 <tel:+27826010496>
> >> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
> >>
> >> Posix SystemsVCARD for MJ Elkins
> >>
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> >>
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> >> >
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> >> >
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> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 4
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:10:48 +0000
> >> From: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
> >> To: "mje at posix.co.za" <mje at posix.co.za>,
> >>         "community-discuss at afrinic.net" <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID:
> >>         <
> >>
> DBBPR03MB5415D6F757C9E3BD1AE2CDE4EE5C0 at DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com
> >> >
> >>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> >>
> >> I would be very curious to hear from a legal perspective what - if any -
> >> legal liability AfriNIC has in a situation like this.
> >>
> >> The fact is - space has value - and if space is stolen - used for spam
> or
> >> whatever else - and the reputation of said space is damaged - it?s value
> >> decreases.  Now I fully realize that space can be hijacked - and at that
> >> point potentially the hijackers may hold the liability. However - when
> the
> >> space seems to have been stolen and sold off by a staff member of the
> >> organization that is meant in effect to the curator of the space - I
> >> question if there is not a liability issue at play if it can be proven
> that
> >> due care was not taken to safe guard against the actions taken.
> >>
> >> I?m no lawyer though so I would really be interested to know the legal
> >> perspective - can an rir be held liable to the actions of its staff if
> it
> >> did not adequately protect against the actions taken.
> >>
> >> Andrew
> >>
> >> Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za>
> >> Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 3:59:57 PM
> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >>
> >>
> >> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to
> >> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case
> (looting of
> >> non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.
> >>
> >> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
> >> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
> >> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >>
> >> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
> and
> >> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >>
> >> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
> >> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and
> then
> >> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
> >> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those
> processes
> >> may not have the desired outcome.
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu<mailto:
> >> mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
> >>
> >> Mark.
> >>
> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >>
> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to
> >> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >>
> >> Sunday.
> >>
> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
> >> news story.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> >> <
> >>
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> >> >
> >>   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
> >> only
> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> Vermeulen
> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >>     Regards,
> >> rfg
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
> >> mje at posix.co.za<mailto:mje at posix.co.za>       Tel:
> >> +27.826010496<tel:+27826010496>
> >> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za<
> >> https://ftth.posix.co.za>
> >>
> >> [Posix            Systems][VCARD for            MJ Elkins]
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> >>
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> >> >
> >> -------------- next part --------------
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> >> Name: abessive_logo.jpg
> >> Type: image/jpeg
> >> Size: 6410 bytes
> >> Desc: abessive_logo.jpg
> >> URL: <
> >>
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> >> >
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> >> Name: QR-MJElkins.png
> >> Type: image/png
> >> Size: 2163 bytes
> >> Desc: QR-MJElkins.png
> >> URL: <
> >>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/24fff2bc/attachment-0001.png
> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 5
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 15:11:04 +0200
> >> From: Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu>
> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <7fa06e69-5728-f936-ce1d-f471893ccc17 at seacom.mu>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >>
> >> I don't disagree with that either.
> >>
> >> I am certain AFRINIC are working on this, and I know there will be no
> >> shortage of queries about this from the field, much to our
> >> already-clogged e-mail boxes. I don't want to do the jobs of others; no
> >> one is doing mine for me.
> >>
> >> My preferred current focus - your last paragraph, below.
> >>
> >> Mark.
> >>
> >> On 5/Dec/19 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
> >> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >> >
> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
> >> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >> >
> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
> >> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
> >> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
> >> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving
> >> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.?
> >> >
> >> > Mike
> >> >
> >> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu
> >> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
> >> >>
> >> >> Mark.
> >> >>
> >> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see
> >> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Thanks.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Sunday.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
> >> >>>> following
> >> >>>> news story.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >>
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the
> >> >>>> moment, I only
> >> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> >> >>>> Vermeulen
> >> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >> >>>> ? ? Regards,
> >> >>>> rfg
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> >>>>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> >
> >>
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> URL: <
> >>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/c8c491fa/attachment-0001.html
> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 6
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 19:54:21 +0100
> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"
> >>
> >> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest
> >> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy
> >> space.
> >>
> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal
> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
> >> done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
> >> established, the law should take its course and people should stand
> >> accountable for their deeds.
> >>
> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover
> >> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active
> >> use, why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for
> >> the common good?
> >>
> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by
> now.
> >>
> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
> >> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
> >> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
> >> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
> >> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our
> >> time and intellect.
> >>
> >> Sunday.
> >>
> >> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
> >> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >> >
> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
> >> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >> >
> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
> >> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
> >> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
> >> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving
> >> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.
> >> >
> >> > Mike
> >> >
> >> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu
> >> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
> >> >>
> >> >> Mark.
> >> >>
> >> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see
> >> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Thanks.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Sunday.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
> >> >>>> following
> >> >>>> news story.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >>
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the
> >> >>>> moment, I only
> >> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> >> >>>> Vermeulen
> >> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >> >>>> ? ? Regards,
> >> >>>> rfg
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> >>>>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >>
> >> --
> >> --------------------------------------------------
> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> >> Managing Director
> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
> >> ---------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> URL: <
> >>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/118317f5/attachment-0001.html
> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 7
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:15:59 +0200
> >> From: Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>
> >> To: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
> >> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID:
> >>         <CAG1eoi3w-F2Ui-BfiKmBqYJ=
> >> srHdvBJx2F5vS2k__asGCVTwVw at mail.gmail.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >>
> >> I have to agree with this. As shocking and disappointing as the
> >> revelations
> >> might be, this makes the most sense to me.
> >>
> >> Omo
> >>
> >> On Thu, 5 Dec 2019, 20:56 Sunday Folayan, <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway
> suggest
> >> > that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on
> legacy
> >> > space.
> >> >
> >> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal
> >> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
> >> done.
> >> > I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
> >> established,
> >> > the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for
> >> > their deeds.
> >> >
> >> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
> >> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of
> 7
> >> > years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to
> discover
> >> > the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active
> >> use,
> >> > why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for
> the
> >> > common good?
> >> >
> >> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their
> legal
> >> > department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by
> >> now.
> >> >
> >> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
> >> of
> >> > the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
> with
> >> > the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather
> >> > apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for
> >> > developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and
> >> > intellect.
> >> > Sunday.
> >> >
> >> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
> to
> >> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >> >
> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
> >> and
> >> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >> >
> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
> space
> >> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and
> >> then
> >> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
> >> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those
> >> processes
> >> > may not have the desired outcome.
> >> >
> >> > Mike
> >> >
> >> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Completely agree with Sunday.
> >> >
> >> > Mark.
> >> >
> >> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >> >
> >> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how
> to
> >> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks.
> >> >
> >> > Sunday.
> >> >
> >> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
> following
> >> > news story.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> >> >   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
> >> > only
> >> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> >> Vermeulen
> >> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >> >     Regards,
> >> > rfg
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://
> >> lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > --------------------------------------------------
> >> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> >> > Managing Director
> >> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> >> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> >> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> >> > Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
> >> > ---------------------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> >
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> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/582fac38/attachment-0001.html
> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 8
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:28:06 +0100
> >> From: Sylvain Baya <abscoco at gmail.com>
> >> To: "mje at posix.co.za" <mje at posix.co.za>,
> >>         "community-discuss at afrinic.net" <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: [Community-Discuss] [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID:
> >>         <
> >> CAJjTEvE+sHgdAsJUO4D1pYe1eEwCk6WEMosvhknZqS+AwyF6Kg at mail.gmail.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >>
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> Le jeudi 5 d?cembre 2019, Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za> a ?crit :
> >>
> >> > Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to
> >> > manipulate the non-legacy space -
> >> >
> >>
> >> Dear Mark,
> >> ...i agree !
> >>
> >> yet it happened. In this case (looting of non-legacy space), the RSA has
> >> > meant nothing.
> >> >
> >>
> >> As you say, i take you on words ; then if the RSA (Registration Service
> >> Agreement) could
> >> easily be bypassed, how to deal with our 'emerged' problem ?
> >>
> >> ...perhaps time to seriously reconsider the long life DPP (Draft Policy
> >> Proposal) [1] ?
> >> __
> >> [1]: <https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2016-gen-001-d8/amp>
> >>
> >> Shalom,
> >> --sb.
> >>
> >> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
> to
> >> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >> >
> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
> >> and
> >> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >> >
> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
> space
> >> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and
> >> then
> >> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
> >> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those
> >> processes
> >> > may not have the desired outcome.
> >> >
> >> > Mike
> >> >
> >> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Completely agree with Sunday.
> >> >
> >> > Mark.
> >> >
> >> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >> >
> >> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how
> to
> >> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks.
> >> >
> >> > Sunday.
> >> >
> >> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
> following
> >> > news story.
> >> >
> >> > https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-
> >> >
> >>
> resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> >> >   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
> >> > only
> >> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> >> Vermeulen
> >> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >> >     Regards,
> >> > rfg
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://
> >> lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> >
> >> > Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
> >> > mje at posix.co.za       Tel: +27.826010496 <+27826010496>
> >> > For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
> >> >
> >> > [image: Posix Systems][image: VCARD for MJ Elkins]
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> --
> >> Best Regards !
> >> baya.sylvain [AT cmNOG DOT cm] | <https://www.cmnog.cm> | <
> >> https://survey.cmnog.cm>
> >> Subscribe to Mailing List : <
> >> https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/>
> >> __
> >> #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|?#?Romains15?:33?*Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec
> >> vous tous! ?#?Amen?!*?
> >> ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement?
> >> ?*Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me
> soupire
> >> apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!*? (#Psaumes42:2)
> >> -------------- next part --------------
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> >>
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> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 9
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 23:43:48 +0100
> >> From: Isabel Odida <isabel.odida at gmail.com>
> >> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
> >> Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii
> >>
> >> I know what sparked this story. Some people have no chill. How
> convenient
> >> following the last meeting in June. Ok, and then what? What have you
> >> benefited?
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> > On 4 Dec 2019, at 18:23, Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
> following
> >> > news story.
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> >> >
> >> > I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
> >> only
> >> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> >> Vermeulen
> >> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> > rfg
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 10
> >> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 14:44:58 -0800
> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <18818.1575585898 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> In message <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>,
> >> Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >The community has been informed that there is already some internal
> >> >investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
> >> >done.
> >>
> >> Mr. Folayan,
> >>
> >> These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,
> >> 2019, a full three months ago.  Since that time there has not been a
> >> single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,
> >> or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague
> assurances
> >> that these matters are being looked into.
> >>
> >> Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns
> >> about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full
> >> three years ago.
> >>
> >>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html
> >>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html
> >>     https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html
> >>
> >> I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again
> >> repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,
> >> albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention
> >> paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any
> >> concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.
> >>
> >>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html
> >>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html
> >>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html
> >>
> >> At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly
> >> in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive
> >> issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to
> >> entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it
> >> were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the
> >> courageous reporting of MyBroadband.co.za.  Neither the board nor
> >> the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any
> >> clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will
> >> either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders
> >> and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive
> >> any of the findings that it may reach.  And yet despite having had
> >> either three full months or three full years to look into these
> >> matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and
> >> despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming
> >> from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel patience.
> >>
> >> This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the
> >> community's patience to come to an end?  Does the community have any
> >> assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another
> >> three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield
> >> anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the
> >> current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions
> >> of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?
> >>
> >> On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at
> long
> >> last be forthcoming?
> >>
> >> >I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
> >> >established, the law should take its course and people should stand
> >> >accountable for their deeds.
> >>
> >> This assertion on your part begs four further questions:
> >>
> >> 1)  Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been presented
> >> in the MyBroadband.co.za article, the majority of which were drawn from
> >> publicly available sources including open government records, what more
> >> will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and
> intentions
> >> are established"?  What parts of the abundant documentary evidence
> already
> >> presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?
> >>
> >> 2)  If, as asserted in the MyBroadband.co.za article, it can be
> >> persuasively
> >> demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in
> fact
> >> purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that AFRINIC
> >> itself is one of the aggrieved parties?  And if so, would you hope and
> >> expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and
> >> all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?
> >>
> >> 3)  Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and
> >> endemic
> >> within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do
> you
> >> have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all
> >> likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?
> >>
> >> 4)  What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-
> >> documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks from
> >> AFRINIC's own free pool?  Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed
> by
> >> AFRINIC?  Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever
> they
> >> may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten booty
> >> on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?
> >>
> >> >I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
> >> >organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
> >> >years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to
> discover
> >> >the manipulations.
> >>
> >> On this point, you and I are in complete agreement.  "The system", such
> >> as it is, is quite self-evidently broken.  But this raises the further
> >> question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at
> >> AFRINIC,
> >> while all of this was going on.  Is it even plausible that a single bad
> >> actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars
> >> worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a
> >> several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC
> >> staff even noticed any of this?
> >>
> >> >For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
> >> >department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by
> >> now.
> >>
> >> See above.  Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced with
> >> respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself.  No other
> >> single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much
> >> valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself.  And yet we have, as yet, no
> >> clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any staff
> >> member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone
> >> that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated
> >> by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.
> >>
> >> If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new dictionary.
> >>
> >> >While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
> >> >of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
> >> >with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
> >> >rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
> >> >available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of
> our
> >> >time and intellect.
> >>
> >> See above.  With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we
> >> may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"?  I
> have
> >> so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any
> >> document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member of
> >> AFRINIC.  In fact, quite the opposite.  I see that a purported three
> >> month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth publicly
> >> reporting on so far.  I see an attempt to shift the blame for this
> >> colossal
> >> and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders
> >> while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of
> >> AFRINIC itself.  I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action
> >> will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a
> >> backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a general
> >> disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific
> >> national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.
> >>
> >> For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances misplaced,
> >> Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.
> >> The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and
> >> to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or
> >> placed
> >> under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to
> all.
> >> AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding
> >> responsibility.
> >>
> >> I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and effectively
> >> remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still ongoing
> >> after-effects.  I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now
> >> evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the
> carpet
> >> will no longer be considered a vialble option.
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> rfg
> >>
> >>
> >> P.S.  I must strenuously object to your use of the word "whistleblower"
> in
> >> this context Mr. Folayan.  That term is usually used in reference to
> some
> >> insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed
> >> first-hand some malfeasance.  Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this
> >> description.  Rather, we have labored as outsiders only.  We have not
> >> been privy to any "inside" information.  Quite the opposite in fact.  We
> >> have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable requests
> >> for information by AFRINIC staff.
> >>
> >> Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our
> >> reasonable
> >> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.
> >> Exactly
> >> such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four other
> >> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists
> upon
> >> request.  When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such
> unredacted
> >> WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were
> rejected
> >> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved
> policy
> >> was cited as the basis for the denial.
> >>
> >> At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate explanation
> >> for
> >> this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to be
> >> granted at long last.  Certain portions of my research cannot be
> completed
> >> without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved basis
> >> for
> >> the rejection of such requests.
> >>
> >>
> >> P.P.S.  As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the
> >> numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place.  I feel
> >> compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively been
> >> double-victimized in at least two specific instances.
> >>
> >> First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large IPv4
> >> blocks "liberated" from its free pool.  Secondarily and even more
> >> insultingly
> >> however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also
> >> arranged
> >> to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be
> associated
> >> with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other
> >> legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired IPv4
> >> allocations.
> >>
> >> I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy 168.80.0.0/15
> block,
> >> registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the
> >> non-legacy
> >> 196.16.0.0/14 block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization.
> >> These
> >> blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six
> million
> >> U.S. dollars.
> >>
> >> As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD
> >> mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as
> MEMBER-ONLY,
> >> as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold any
> >> actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees to
> >> AFRINIC.
> >>
> >> I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in this
> >> regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it
> does
> >> appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have -both-
> >> stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for years
> >> on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be
> due
> >> on these IPv4 assignments.
> >>
> >> Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further
> >> clarification
> >> with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have been
> >> collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned, for
> >> any year since their allocation to and association with the
> organizations
> >> noted.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 11
> >> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 17:24:26 -0800
> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <19435.1575595466 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> In message <6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com>,
> >> Isabel Odida <isabel.odida at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >I know what sparked this story.
> >>
> >> If you have something to say, then you have our attention and the floor.
> >> Please proceed.
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> rfg
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 12
> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 10:04:06 +0100
> >> From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>
> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >>
> >> Hi Sunday, all,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let
> me
> >> tell why.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My first
> >> AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly after,
> >> during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could contribute to
> >> the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and joining Ernest in
> his
> >> trips to do the Registration Services training so I do IPv6 trainings.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos, I
> >> was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the Madrid
> >> Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from Sunday, I could
> >> resolve that on the next day and flight again to do the training.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that,
> >> and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been
> doing
> >> those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been able to
> take
> >> advantage of that.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as
> well
> >> as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much together,
> >> you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost 15 years.
> Of
> >> course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a hidden face.
> As
> >> humans, we all have positive and negative things. But I?m really
> shocked, I
> >> still resist to believe it.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the position
> >> of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use
> >> your own name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe
> >> someone,? may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to
> >> appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly and
> >> non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean he is
> >> still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or something
> >> similar.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents. If
> >> you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be enough.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,
> and
> >> may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and
> >> involvement an all this.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal interest.
> >> My only interest is to know the *real true* and I?m sure everybody
> agrees
> >> on that.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so no
> >> doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very
> >> thankful for that.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Jordi
> >>
> >> @jordipalet
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <sfolayan at gmail.com> escribi?:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest
> >> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy
> >> space.
> >>
> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal
> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
> done.
> >> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
> established,
> >> the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for
> >> their deeds.
> >>
> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover
> >> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active
> use,
> >> why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for the
> >> common good?
> >>
> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by
> now.
> >>
> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
> of
> >> the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, with
> >> the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather
> >> apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for
> >> developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and
> >> intellect.
> >>
> >> Sunday.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
> >>
> >> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
> >> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
> and
> >> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
> >> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and
> then
> >> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
> >> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those
> processes
> >> may not have the desired outcome.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
> >>
> >> Mark.
> >>
> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >>
> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >>
> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to
> >> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >>
> >> Sunday.
> >>
> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
> >> news story.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> >>   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
> >> only
> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> Vermeulen
> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >>     Regards,
> >> rfg
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> --
> >> --------------------------------------------------
> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> >> Managing Director
> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
> >> ---------------------------------------------------
> >> _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss
> mailing
> >> list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> **********************************************
> >> IPv4 is over
> >> Are you ready for the new Internet ?
> >> http://www.theipv6company.com
> >> The IPv6 Company
> >>
> >> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or
> >> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of
> >> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized
> >> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
> >> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly
> >> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the
> >> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution
> or
> >> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including
> >> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal
> >> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this
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> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 13
> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 10:16:03 +0100
> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
> >> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>, General Discussions
> >>         of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> >>
> >> Dear Mr Guilmette,
> >>
> >> Regrettably, I do not monitor the press, but selected channels such as
> >> this list. It seems I got your attention, or you got my attention, or we
> >> both got each other's attention. Let us therefore maximize the
> possession.
> >>
> >> Important and interesting questions, that you have raised in this email.
> >> Let us put some punch in it. Kindly change the TO: field to
> >> ceo at afrinic.net, and cc the Community just to make sure it is not
> >> ignored, then resend it. I am sure the CEO will answer all the questions
> >> you here posed to me. Pity he has to start his tenure with these hard
> >> nuts and curveballs, but he is capable. He speaks for the Company, not
> me.
> >>
> >> I am equally sure that the Community appreciates the great work done,
> >> and no one supports the exposed fraud. You are a stakeholder, and not
> >> some casual bystander so please note this. What you conveniently
> >> ignored, is that the #1 accused company insider is the eye of the
> >> company on the policy lists, where you raised the issues.
> >>
> >> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should
> >> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more
> >> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking stakeholder.
> >> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.
> >>
> >> My use of the term "Whistleblowers" is appropriate, as I looked at one
> >> of your reference links, and indeed, someone confirmed to you privately
> >> that your hunch is right. If you do not claim the honour, they should,
> >> because you rightly built on their work!
> >>
> >> Great job you are doing.
> >>
> >> Have a great day.
> >>
> >> Sunday.
> >>
> >> On 05/12/2019 23:44, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> > In message <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>,
> >> > Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal
> >> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
> >> >> done.
> >> > Mr. Folayan,
> >> >
> >> > These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,
> >> > 2019, a full three months ago.  Since that time there has not been a
> >> > single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,
> >> > or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague
> >> assurances
> >> > that these matters are being looked into.
> >> >
> >> > Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns
> >> > about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full
> >> > three years ago.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html
> >> >
> >> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html
> >> >      https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html
> >> >
> >> > I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again
> >> > repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,
> >> > albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention
> >> > paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any
> >> > concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.
> >> >
> >> >
> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html
> >> >
> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html
> >> >
> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html
> >> >
> >> > At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly
> >> > in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive
> >> > issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to
> >> > entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it
> >> > were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the
> >> > courageous reporting of MyBroadband.co.za.  Neither the board nor
> >> > the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any
> >> > clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will
> >> > either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders
> >> > and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive
> >> > any of the findings that it may reach.  And yet despite having had
> >> > either three full months or three full years to look into these
> >> > matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and
> >> > despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming
> >> > from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel
> patience.
> >> >
> >> > This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the
> >> > community's patience to come to an end?  Does the community have any
> >> > assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another
> >> > three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield
> >> > anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the
> >> > current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions
> >> > of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?
> >> >
> >> > On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at
> >> long
> >> > last be forthcoming?
> >> >
> >> >> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
> >> >> established, the law should take its course and people should stand
> >> >> accountable for their deeds.
> >> > This assertion on your part begs four further questions:
> >> >
> >> > 1)  Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been
> presented
> >> > in the MyBroadband.co.za article, the majority of which were drawn
> from
> >> > publicly available sources including open government records, what
> more
> >> > will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and
> >> intentions
> >> > are established"?  What parts of the abundant documentary evidence
> >> already
> >> > presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?
> >> >
> >> > 2)  If, as asserted in the MyBroadband.co.za article, it can be
> >> persuasively
> >> > demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in
> >> fact
> >> > purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that
> AFRINIC
> >> > itself is one of the aggrieved parties?  And if so, would you hope and
> >> > expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and
> >> > all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?
> >> >
> >> > 3)  Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and
> >> endemic
> >> > within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do
> >> you
> >> > have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all
> >> > likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?
> >> >
> >> > 4)  What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-
> >> > documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks
> from
> >> > AFRINIC's own free pool?  Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed
> >> by
> >> > AFRINIC?  Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever
> >> they
> >> > may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten
> booty
> >> > on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?
> >> >
> >> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
> >> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards
> of 7
> >> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to
> >> discover
> >> >> the manipulations.
> >> > On this point, you and I are in complete agreement.  "The system",
> such
> >> > as it is, is quite self-evidently broken.  But this raises the further
> >> > question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at
> >> AFRINIC,
> >> > while all of this was going on.  Is it even plausible that a single
> bad
> >> > actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars
> >> > worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a
> >> > several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC
> >> > staff even noticed any of this?
> >> >
> >> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their
> legal
> >> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by
> >> now.
> >> > See above.  Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced
> with
> >> > respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself.  No other
> >> > single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much
> >> > valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself.  And yet we have, as yet, no
> >> > clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any
> staff
> >> > member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone
> >> > that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated
> >> > by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.
> >> >
> >> > If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new
> dictionary.
> >> >
> >> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on
> behalf
> >> >> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system
> here,
> >> >> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
> >> >> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
> >> >> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of
> >> our
> >> >> time and intellect.
> >> > See above.  With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we
> >> > may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"?  I
> >> have
> >> > so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any
> >> > document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member
> of
> >> > AFRINIC.  In fact, quite the opposite.  I see that a purported three
> >> > month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth
> publicly
> >> > reporting on so far.  I see an attempt to shift the blame for this
> >> colossal
> >> > and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders
> >> > while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of
> >> > AFRINIC itself.  I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action
> >> > will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a
> >> > backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a
> general
> >> > disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific
> >> > national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.
> >> >
> >> > For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances
> misplaced,
> >> > Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.
> >> > The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and
> >> > to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or
> >> placed
> >> > under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to
> >> all.
> >> > AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding
> >> responsibility.
> >> >
> >> > I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and
> effectively
> >> > remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still
> ongoing
> >> > after-effects.  I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now
> >> > evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the
> >> carpet
> >> > will no longer be considered a vialble option.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> > rfg
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > P.S.  I must strenuously object to your use of the word
> "whistleblower"
> >> in
> >> > this context Mr. Folayan.  That term is usually used in reference to
> >> some
> >> > insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed
> >> > first-hand some malfeasance.  Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this
> >> > description.  Rather, we have labored as outsiders only.  We have not
> >> > been privy to any "inside" information.  Quite the opposite in fact.
> We
> >> > have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable
> requests
> >> > for information by AFRINIC staff.
> >> >
> >> > Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our
> >> reasonable
> >> > requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.
> >> Exactly
> >> > such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four
> other
> >> > Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists
> >> upon
> >> > request.  When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such
> >> unredacted
> >> > WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were
> >> rejected
> >> > out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved
> >> policy
> >> > was cited as the basis for the denial.
> >> >
> >> > At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate
> >> explanation for
> >> > this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to
> be
> >> > granted at long last.  Certain portions of my research cannot be
> >> completed
> >> > without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved
> basis
> >> for
> >> > the rejection of such requests.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > P.P.S.  As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the
> >> > numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place.  I feel
> >> > compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively
> been
> >> > double-victimized in at least two specific instances.
> >> >
> >> > First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large
> IPv4
> >> > blocks "liberated" from its free pool.  Secondarily and even more
> >> insultingly
> >> > however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also
> >> arranged
> >> > to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be
> >> associated
> >> > with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other
> >> > legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired
> IPv4
> >> > allocations.
> >> >
> >> > I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy 168.80.0.0/15
> >> block,
> >> > registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the
> >> non-legacy
> >> > 196.16.0.0/14 block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization.
> >> These
> >> > blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six
> >> million
> >> > U.S. dollars.
> >> >
> >> > As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD
> >> > mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as
> >> MEMBER-ONLY,
> >> > as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold
> any
> >> > actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees
> to
> >> > AFRINIC.
> >> >
> >> > I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in
> this
> >> > regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it
> >> does
> >> > appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have
> -both-
> >> > stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for
> years
> >> > on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be
> >> due
> >> > on these IPv4 assignments.
> >> >
> >> > Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further
> >> clarification
> >> > with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have
> been
> >> > collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned,
> for
> >> > any year since their allocation to and association with the
> >> organizations
> >> > noted.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >>
> >> --
> >> --------------------------------------------------
> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> >> Managing Director
> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
> >> ---------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 14
> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:07:01 -0800
> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <21084.1575626821 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> Mr. Folayan,
> >>
> >> Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful
> response.
> >>
> >> At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and beyond
> >> what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.
> >>
> >>
> >> In message <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>,
> >> Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should
> >> >conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more
> >> >honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking
> stakeholder.
> >> >It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.
> >>
> >> Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.
> >>
> >> Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to see
> >> the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC.  That is quite certainly not a
> >> goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as
> >> you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder
> >> should wish for.  AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global
> >> Internet governance.  I cannot even envision things as being otherwise.
> >> No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a
> >> few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second.  And to use an
> >> even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing
> >> smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more than
> >> I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the plains.
> >>
> >> If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was being
> >> formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested
> >> that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already
> >> sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it, being
> >> preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere.  Now I may stand on the comfortable
> >> shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but
> >> I do not question the utility of the journey.
> >>
> >> The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think, matters
> >> of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose.  Time will
> >> tell if that is an accurate assesment.
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> rfg
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 15
> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:14:31 +0100
> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
> >> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>, General
> >>         Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <8d06cf43-7c72-07df-e510-96917cd8e0ed at gmail.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
> >>
> >> Good points Jordi, and thanks for the throwback on the very many amazing
> >> sacrifices we all made, to grow the Internet in Africa.
> >>
> >> I will resist asking Ernest to defend himself here, We are not
> >> constituted as a competent jury, neither do we want to compromise the
> >> ongoing investigations.
> >>
> >> Questions are appropriate, so will be his own admissions or rebuttals,
> >> when the investigations are completed.
> >>
> >> I may be wrong, but that is my own expectations and position.
> >>
> >> Sunday.
> >>
> >> On 06/12/2019 10:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hi Sunday, all,
> >> >
> >> > I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let
> >> > me tell why.
> >> >
> >> > I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My
> >> > first AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly
> >> > after, during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could
> >> > contribute to the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and
> >> > joining Ernest in his trips to do the Registration Services training
> >> > so I do IPv6 trainings.
> >> >
> >> > Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos,
> >> > I was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the
> >> > Madrid Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from
> >> > Sunday, I could resolve that on the next day and flight again to do
> >> > the training.
> >> >
> >> > My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that,
> >> > and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been
> >> > doing those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been
> >> > able to take advantage of that.
> >> >
> >> > The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as
> >> > well as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much
> >> > together, you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost
> >> > 15 years. Of course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a
> >> > hidden face. As humans, we all have positive and negative things. But
> >> > I?m really shocked, I still resist to believe it.
> >> >
> >> > I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the
> >> > position of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think
> >> > you will use your own name for registering companies, or instead you
> >> > will bribe someone, may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your
> >> > family name to appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly
> >> > and non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean
> >> > he is still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or
> >> > something similar.
> >> >
> >> > Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents.
> >> > If you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be
> enough.
> >> >
> >> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,
> >> > and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and
> >> > involvement an all this.
> >> >
> >> > Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal
> >> > interest. My only interest is to know the **real true** and I?m sure
> >> > everybody agrees on that.
> >> >
> >> > Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so
> >> > no doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very
> >> > thankful for that.
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> >
> >> > Jordi
> >> >
> >> > @jordipalet
> >> >
> >> > El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <sfolayan at gmail.com
> >> > <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>> escribi?:
> >> >
> >> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway
> >> > suggest that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only
> >> > on legacy space.
> >> >
> >> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal
> >> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
> >> > done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
> >> > established, the law should take its course and people should stand
> >> > accountable for their deeds.
> >> >
> >> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
> >> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of
> >> > 7 years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to
> >> > discover the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or
> >> > in active use, why would or should they not have been returned to the
> >> > Registry for the common good?
> >> >
> >> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their
> >> > legal department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with
> >> > gusto by now.
> >> >
> >> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
> >> > of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
> >> > with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
> >> > rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
> >> > available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of
> >> > our time and intellect.
> >> >
> >> > Sunday.
> >> >
> >> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
> >> >
> >> >     Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there
> >> >     appears to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy
> >> >     space.
> >> >
> >> >     I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the
> >> >     problem and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space
> issue.
> >> >
> >> >     It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
> >> >     space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
> >> >     mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
> >> >     legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then
> >> >     moving legacy space under those processes may not have the desired
> >> >     outcome.
> >> >
> >> >     Mike
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >         On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu
> >> >         <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >         Completely agree with Sunday.
> >> >
> >> >         Mark.
> >> >
> >> >         On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >> >
> >> >             Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically
> >> >             ancient squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet
> >> >             in Africa, AfriNIC Services and bringing legacy spaces
> >> >             under some form of RSA?
> >> >
> >> >             I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let
> >> >             us see how to help and empower the people doing useful
> >> >             work for Africa.
> >> >
> >> >             Thanks.
> >> >
> >> >             Sunday.
> >> >
> >> >             On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> >
> >> >                 I hope you all will take the time to read and think
> >> >                 about the following
> >> >                 news story.
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> >> >
> >> >                 ? I will have more to say about this in due course.?
> >> >                 For the moment, I only
> >> >                 wish to say that the investigation undertaken by
> >> >                 myself and Jan Vermeulen
> >> >                 is ongoing, and that many others are provably
> involved.
> >> >                 ? ? Regards,
> >> >                 rfg
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >                 _______________________________________________
> >> >                 Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >                 Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> >                 <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> >
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >         _______________________________________________
> >> >         Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >         Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> >         <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> >         https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >     _______________________________________________
> >> >
> >> >     Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >
> >> >     Community-Discuss at afrinic.net  <mailto:
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> >
> >> >     https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > --------------------------------------------------
> >> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> >> > Managing Director
> >> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> >> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> >> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> >> > Email:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng  <mailto:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng>,
> >> sfolayan at gmail.com  <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>
> >> > ---------------------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss
> >> > mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > **********************************************
> >> > IPv4 is over
> >> > Are you ready for the new Internet ?
> >> > http://www.theipv6company.com
> >> > The IPv6 Company
> >> >
> >> > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged
> >> > or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive
> >> > use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty
> >> > authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of
> >> > this information, even if partially, including attached files, is
> >> > strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you
> >> > are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying,
> >> > distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if
> >> > partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be
> >> > considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original
> >> > sender to inform about this communication and delete it.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >>
> >> --
> >> --------------------------------------------------
> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> >> Managing Director
> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
> >> ---------------------------------------------------
> >>
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> >>
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> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 16
> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 12:17:52 +0200
> >> From: Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>
> >> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>
> >> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > On 6 Dec 2019, at 11:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss <
> >> community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,
> >> and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and
> >> involvement an all this.
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> :-)  Might as well setup a confession booth and provide absolution of
> >> souls.  On a serious note, we need a proper investigation.  Let?s wait
> to
> >> hear from the CEO
> >>
> >> Omo
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >>
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> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 17
> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:21:40 +0100
> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
> >> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>, General Discussions
> >>         of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <c071ab53-ba47-a98a-8e28-d97187ae8c10 at gmail.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> >>
> >> Dear Mr Guilmette,
> >>
> >> On 06/12/2019 11:07, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> > Mr. Folayan,
> >> >
> >> > Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful
> >> response.
> >> >
> >> > At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and
> beyond
> >> > what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > In message <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>,
> >> > Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we
> should
> >> >> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much
> more
> >> >> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking
> >> stakeholder.
> >> >> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.
> >> > Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.
> >> >
> >> > Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to
> see
> >> > the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC.  That is quite certainly not a
> >> > goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as
> >> > you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder
> >> > should wish for.  AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global
> >> > Internet governance.  I cannot even envision things as being
> otherwise.
> >> > No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a
> >> > few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second.  And to use an
> >> > even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing
> >> > smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more
> than
> >> > I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the
> plains.
> >> >
> >> > If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was
> being
> >> > formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested
> >> > that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already
> >> > sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it,
> being
> >> > preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere.  Now I may stand on the comfortable
> >> > shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but
> >> > I do not question the utility of the journey.
> >> >
> >> > The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think,
> matters
> >> > of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose.  Time will
> >> > tell if that is an accurate assesment.
> >>
> >>
> >> This is most assuring and comforting at the same time.
> >>
> >> If I have sounded off-key, please accept my sincere apologies, and thank
> >> you very much for the good job you have done for the community so far.
> >> History will never forget your role and progressive disposition at this
> >> point in time.
> >>
> >> When AfriNIC was being formed, the challenges of today, were not
> >> envisioned in the very many ways that they now present themselves.
> >> Africa has come a long way. Unfortunately, there are still many more
> >> oceans to cross, but we will all band together as a purposeful fleet.
> >> That is how we can all weather the storms that may come, but sure they
> >> will come.
> >>
> >> With kind Regards ...
> >>
> >> Sunday.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 18
> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:58:27 -0800
> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <21283.1575629907 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> In message <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es>,
> >> JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es> wrote:
> >>
> >> >I also believe that he is a smart guy.
> >>
> >> I would not dispute that characterization in the slightest.
> >>
> >> >So, put yourself in the position of
> >> >a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use
> >> your o
> >> >wn name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe
> >> someone,=C2=A0
> >> > may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to appear
> in
> >> an
> >> >y documents? I feel this is really silly and non-understandable.
> >>
> >> And yet it seemed to work, for years on end, with no one raising so much
> >> as an eyebrow because nobody seriously investigated or seriously looked
> >> at all of the relevant corporate documents and WHOIS records and, in
> >> particular, the historical WHOIS records, including but not limited to
> >> these ones:
> >>
> >> ORG-AI2-AFRINIC     https://pastebin.com/raw/7rqfP1LD
> >> ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC   https://pastebin.com/raw/Nx79QkgB
> >> ORG-IA41-AFRINIC    https://pastebin.com/raw/ynEXMyCP
> >> ORG-ZZ139-AFRINIC   https://pastebin.com/raw/GX5egcbW
> >> ORG-ZZ23-AFRINIC    https://pastebin.com/raw/Yu8K9z6N
> >>
> >> I have been chasing down miscreants on the Internet for more than 20
> years
> >> now.  One of the lessons I have learned in that time is that none of
> them
> >> are ten feet tall, and the majority of them absolutely suck at OPSEC.
> It
> >> is almost as if some part of them is deluding their own brains into the
> >> false belief that what they are doing is not really wrong, in some
> >> sense, and that they are somehow actually entitled to the stuff they are
> >> stealing, and that thus, at some level, they don't actually need to hide
> >> what they are doing all that throughly, because just as White House
> Chief
> >> of Staff Mick Mulvaney did not long ago... much to the shock of
> >> everyone...
> >> if they are ever caught and confronted they assume that they will just
> say
> >> "Yea.  So?  We do that all of the time.  Get over it!"
> >>
> >> >So maybe
> >> >somebody used him, which doesn=E2=80=99t mean he is still guilty
> >> =E2=80=9Cin
> >> >vigilando=E2=80=9D because he trusted anyone else, or something
> similar.
> >>
> >> It's a nice thought, and you are a generous person to allow this
> >> possibility
> >> Jordi.  All I can say is that other information, not yet made public,
> >> appears to rule out the possibility that Mr. Byaruhanga was either an
> >> unwitting stooge or a convenient fall guy.
> >>
> >> >Do we believe in =E2=80=9Cpresumption of innocence=E2=80=9D? I do,
> >> despite
> >> >documents. If you don=E2=80=99t know the complete background, documents
> >> may
> >> >not be enough.
> >>
> >> I agree.
> >>
> >> That having been said, I hope that you will, as I have, spend some time
> >> carefully scrutinizing both the current and historical WHOIS records
> >> associated with the ORGanizations and the IPv4 blocks listed in the two
> >> tables in Jan's article.  If you do that, I think that you will be, as
> >> I was, hard pressed to explain all of the quite glaring anomalies in
> >> any way that does not involve a great deal of very deliberate malfesance
> >> on somebody's part.  Once you are convinced of that, then the question
> >> becomes:  Who is responsible?  And it is at that point that the various
> >> official governmental corporate registration records would seem to
> become
> >> very relevant.
> >>
> >> >So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,
> and
> >> >may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and
> >> involvement
> >> >an all this.
> >>
> >> I would like to echo that sentiment.
> >>
> >> Jan Vermeulen and myself have tried, repeatedly, and over some
> significant
> >> time now to reach him, both via voice, at a number of different phone
> >> numbers
> >> that we have identified as being associated with him, and also via
> email,
> >> at various of his known email addresses, and we have been utterly unable
> >> to
> >> do so.  We both very much look forward to speaking with him and getting
> >> his
> >> side of the story, if he has one.
> >>
> >> That having been said, we cannot be blamed, I think, for reaching
> certain
> >> reasonable conclusions when Jan's industry sources informed him, less
> than
> >> a day after I had attempted to confront Ernest, via email, with the
> facts
> >> arrayed against him, that he had abruptly resigned his position at
> AFRINIC
> >> after 15 years on the job.
> >>
> >> His abrupt resignation was and remains his only apparent response to our
> >> inquiries.
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> rfg
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 19
> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 03:16:57 -0800
> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <21648.1575631017 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> In message <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net>,
> >> Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On a serious note, we need a proper investigation.  Let's
> >> >wait to hear from the CEO
> >>
> >> Have any of us been doing otherwise, for lo these past three months now?
> >>
> >> Have we been afforded any other choice in the matter?
> >>
> >> Can AFRINIC clean its own stables?
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> rfg
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Subject: Digest Footer
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> End of Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1
> >> *************************************************
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > *Ogundele Olumuyiwa Caleb*
> > *muyiwacaleb at gmail.com <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>*
> > *234 - 8077377378*
> > *234 - 07030777969*
> > _______________________________________________
> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:56:27 +0000
> From: Arnaud AMELINA <amelnaud at gmail.com>
> To: Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com>
> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>,
>         Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547,
>         Issue 1
> Message-ID:
>         <CAGDMR_cw7qBFFC=jd60noD=
> DPAgiPwY1ozQCaG77Ax29ELZikA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi Community,
>
> Policy or not, will not prevent AFRINIC  from reviewing resources if
> complaints  provide enough evidences.  We  just saw allegations/complaints
> in press which trigger reviews.
> The review policy proposal is intended to provide community approved ways
> of reviews  for fairness, transparency. Lack of community approved review
> policy may have led to media complaint induced review.
>
> Regards
>
> --
> Arnaud
>
> Le dim. 8 d?c. 2019 ? 18:50, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> a ?crit :
>
> >
> >
> > policy or not will not prevent afrinic  from reviewing resources if
> > complaints  provide enough evidences.  We  just saw
> allegations/complaints
> > in press which trigger reviews.
> >
> > The review policy proposal is intended to provide community approved ways
> > of reviews  for fairness, transparency. Lack of community approved review
> > policy may have led to media complaint induced reviewOn Dec 6, 2019, at
> > 07:46 , Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Ronald,
> >
> > So I read where this comment below was attributed to you.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *>?Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our
> > reasonable> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS
> > database.  Exactly> such unredacted database dumps *are* provided by all
> of
> > the four other> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and
> > journalists upon> request.  When we submitted repeated requests for
> exactly
> > such unredacted> WHOIS database dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our
> > requests were rejected> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any
> > community-approved policy> was cited as the basis for the denial.?*
> > While not taking brief for AFRINIC or any of its staff, I feel you should
> > know that AFRINIC?s operation is also being governed by Mauritius data
> > protection law.
> > Mauritius regulates data protection under the Data Protection Act 2017
> > (DPA 2017 or Act), proclaimed through Proclamation No. 3 of 2018,
> effective
> > January 15, 2018. The Act repeals and replaces the Data Protection Act
> > 2004, so as to align with the European Union General Data Protection
> > Regulation 2016/679 (GDPR).
> >
> > Even if you are not familiar with Mauritius law, the EU GDPR which is
> more
> > popular should tell you the implication of revealing a WHOIS database to
> a
> > non-state prosecutorial actor like yourself who does not have a court
> > warrant to see the redacted sections you seek. Please correct me if I?m
> > wrong in my legal analysis of your request.
> >
> >
> > Whois is data that is published generally, so your comments here about
> DPR
> > don?t really apply.
> >
> > Such WHOIS dumps are available from RIPE, so I don?t think it is a GDPR
> > issue at all.
> >
> > Perhaps, isn?t it time for the community to revisit the Internet Number
> > Resources review policy
> > <https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal> which was not
> > on the docket for policy at this just-concluded meeting?
> > https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal
> >
> >
> > No? The resource review policy would do absolutely nothing to help here.
> >
> > We might be doing something right this time if that policy will allow for
> > a diligent review of resources including the legacy ones.
> >
> >
> > That policy does not provide for any review that AfriNIC cannot currently
> > do. All it does is provide a vector for a unique form of Denial Of
> Service
> > attack against larger organizations in the form of a complaint-induced
> > resource review.
> >
> > Let us please not conflate this issue with an utterly and completely
> > unrelated policy effort aimed at weaponizing AfriNIC to allow one subset
> of
> > the membership to attack another.
> >
> > Owen
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Caleb Ogundele
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 12:17 PM <community-discuss-request at afrinic.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to
> >>         community-discuss at afrinic.net
> >>
> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >>         https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >>         community-discuss-request at afrinic.net
> >>
> >> You can reach the person managing the list at
> >>         community-discuss-owner at afrinic.net
> >>
> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> >> than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..."
> >>
> >>
> >> Today's Topics:
> >>
> >>    1. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)
> >>    2. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mike Silber)
> >>    3. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Elkins)
> >>    4. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Andrew Alston)
> >>    5. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)
> >>    6. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
> >>    7. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)
> >>    8. [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC (Sylvain Baya)
> >>    9. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Isabel Odida)
> >>   10. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
> >>   11. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
> >>   12. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)
> >>   13. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
> >>   14. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
> >>   15. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
> >>   16. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)
> >>   17. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
> >>   18. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
> >>   19. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 1
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:27:42 +0200
> >> From: Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu>
> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16 at seacom.mu>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >>
> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
> >>
> >> Mark.
> >>
> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >> >
> >> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how
> >> > to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks.
> >> >
> >> > Sunday.
> >> >
> >> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
> following
> >> >> news story.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >>
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> >> >>
> >> >> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the moment,
> >> >> I only
> >> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> >> >> Vermeulen
> >> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >> >> ? ? Regards,
> >> >> rfg
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> >>
> >>
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> URL: <
> >>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/7f6aa1b8/attachment-0001.html
> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 2
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:46:15 +0200
> >> From: Mike Silber <silber.mike at gmail.com>
> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3 at gmail.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
> >> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >>
> >> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
> and
> >> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >>
> >> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
> >> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and
> then
> >> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
> >> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those
> processes
> >> may not have the desired outcome.
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Completely agree with Sunday.
> >> >
> >> > Mark.
> >> >
> >> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >> >>
> >> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how
> >> to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks.
> >> >>
> >> >> Sunday.
> >> >>
> >> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> >>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
> >> following
> >> >>> news story.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >>
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> >> <
> >>
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> >
> >>
> >> >>>   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment,
> >> I only
> >> >>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> >> Vermeulen
> >> >>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >> >>>     Regards,
> >> >>> rfg
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >
> >> >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> >>>
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >>
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> URL: <
> >>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/1d4a9dec/attachment-0001.html
> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 3
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:59:57 +0200
> >> From: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za>
> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <007bb014-4eb8-157f-5312-f8333782f32f at posix.co.za>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
> >>
> >> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to
> >> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case (looting
> >> of non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.
> >>
> >> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
> >> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >> >
> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
> >> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >> >
> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
> >> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
> >> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
> >> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving
> >> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.
> >> >
> >> > Mike
> >> >
> >> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu
> >> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
> >> >>
> >> >> Mark.
> >> >>
> >> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see
> >> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Thanks.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Sunday.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
> >> >>>> following
> >> >>>> news story.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >>
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the
> >> >>>> moment, I only
> >> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> >> >>>> Vermeulen
> >> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >> >>>> ? ? Regards,
> >> >>>> rfg
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> >>>>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> --
> >>
> >> Mark James ELKINS? -? Posix Systems - (South) Africa
> >> mje at posix.co.za???? <http://mje at posix.co.za/????>?? Tel: +27.826010496
> <
> >> tel:+27826010496 <+27826010496>>
> >> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
> >>
> >> Posix SystemsVCARD for MJ Elkins
> >>
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> >>
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> >> >
> >> -------------- next part --------------
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> >> Desc: not available
> >> URL: <
> >>
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> >> >
> >> -------------- next part --------------
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> >>
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> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 4
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:10:48 +0000
> >> From: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
> >> To: "mje at posix.co.za" <mje at posix.co.za>,
> >>         "community-discuss at afrinic.net" <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID:
> >>         <
> >>
> DBBPR03MB5415D6F757C9E3BD1AE2CDE4EE5C0 at DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com
> >> >
> >>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> >>
> >> I would be very curious to hear from a legal perspective what - if any -
> >> legal liability AfriNIC has in a situation like this.
> >>
> >> The fact is - space has value - and if space is stolen - used for spam
> or
> >> whatever else - and the reputation of said space is damaged - it?s value
> >> decreases.  Now I fully realize that space can be hijacked - and at that
> >> point potentially the hijackers may hold the liability. However - when
> the
> >> space seems to have been stolen and sold off by a staff member of the
> >> organization that is meant in effect to the curator of the space - I
> >> question if there is not a liability issue at play if it can be proven
> that
> >> due care was not taken to safe guard against the actions taken.
> >>
> >> I?m no lawyer though so I would really be interested to know the legal
> >> perspective - can an rir be held liable to the actions of its staff if
> it
> >> did not adequately protect against the actions taken.
> >>
> >> Andrew
> >>
> >> Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za>
> >> Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 3:59:57 PM
> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >>
> >>
> >> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to
> >> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case
> (looting of
> >> non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.
> >>
> >> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
> >> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
> >> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >>
> >> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
> and
> >> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >>
> >> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
> >> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and
> then
> >> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
> >> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those
> processes
> >> may not have the desired outcome.
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu<mailto:
> >> mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
> >>
> >> Mark.
> >>
> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >>
> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to
> >> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >>
> >> Sunday.
> >>
> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
> >> news story.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> >> <
> >>
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> >> >
> >>   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
> >> only
> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> Vermeulen
> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >>     Regards,
> >> rfg
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
> >> mje at posix.co.za<mailto:mje at posix.co.za>       Tel: +27.826010496<
> >> tel:+27826010496 <+27826010496>>
> >> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za<
> >> https://ftth.posix.co.za>
> >>
> >> [Posix            Systems][VCARD for            MJ Elkins]
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> >>
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> >> >
> >> -------------- next part --------------
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> >> Desc: abessive_logo.jpg
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> >>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/24fff2bc/attachment-0001.jpg
> >> >
> >> -------------- next part --------------
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> >> Size: 2163 bytes
> >> Desc: QR-MJElkins.png
> >> URL: <
> >>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/24fff2bc/attachment-0001.png
> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 5
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 15:11:04 +0200
> >> From: Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu>
> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <7fa06e69-5728-f936-ce1d-f471893ccc17 at seacom.mu>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >>
> >> I don't disagree with that either.
> >>
> >> I am certain AFRINIC are working on this, and I know there will be no
> >> shortage of queries about this from the field, much to our
> >> already-clogged e-mail boxes. I don't want to do the jobs of others; no
> >> one is doing mine for me.
> >>
> >> My preferred current focus - your last paragraph, below.
> >>
> >> Mark.
> >>
> >> On 5/Dec/19 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
> >> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >> >
> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
> >> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >> >
> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
> >> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
> >> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
> >> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving
> >> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.?
> >> >
> >> > Mike
> >> >
> >> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu
> >> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
> >> >>
> >> >> Mark.
> >> >>
> >> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see
> >> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Thanks.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Sunday.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
> >> >>>> following
> >> >>>> news story.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >>
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the
> >> >>>> moment, I only
> >> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> >> >>>> Vermeulen
> >> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >> >>>> ? ? Regards,
> >> >>>> rfg
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> >>>>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> >
> >>
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> URL: <
> >>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/c8c491fa/attachment-0001.html
> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 6
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 19:54:21 +0100
> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"
> >>
> >> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest
> >> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy
> >> space.
> >>
> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal
> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
> >> done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
> >> established, the law should take its course and people should stand
> >> accountable for their deeds.
> >>
> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover
> >> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active
> >> use, why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for
> >> the common good?
> >>
> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by
> now.
> >>
> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
> >> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
> >> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
> >> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
> >> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our
> >> time and intellect.
> >>
> >> Sunday.
> >>
> >> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
> >> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >> >
> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
> >> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >> >
> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
> >> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
> >> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
> >> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving
> >> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.
> >> >
> >> > Mike
> >> >
> >> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu
> >> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
> >> >>
> >> >> Mark.
> >> >>
> >> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see
> >> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Thanks.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Sunday.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
> >> >>>> following
> >> >>>> news story.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >>
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the
> >> >>>> moment, I only
> >> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> >> >>>> Vermeulen
> >> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >> >>>> ? ? Regards,
> >> >>>> rfg
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> >>>>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >>
> >> --
> >> --------------------------------------------------
> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> >> Managing Director
> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
> >> ---------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> URL: <
> >>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/118317f5/attachment-0001.html
> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 7
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:15:59 +0200
> >> From: Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>
> >> To: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
> >> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID:
> >>         <CAG1eoi3w-F2Ui-BfiKmBqYJ=
> >> srHdvBJx2F5vS2k__asGCVTwVw at mail.gmail.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >>
> >> I have to agree with this. As shocking and disappointing as the
> >> revelations
> >> might be, this makes the most sense to me.
> >>
> >> Omo
> >>
> >> On Thu, 5 Dec 2019, 20:56 Sunday Folayan, <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway
> suggest
> >> > that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on
> legacy
> >> > space.
> >> >
> >> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal
> >> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
> >> done.
> >> > I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
> >> established,
> >> > the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for
> >> > their deeds.
> >> >
> >> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
> >> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of
> 7
> >> > years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to
> discover
> >> > the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active
> >> use,
> >> > why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for
> the
> >> > common good?
> >> >
> >> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their
> legal
> >> > department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by
> >> now.
> >> >
> >> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
> >> of
> >> > the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
> with
> >> > the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather
> >> > apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for
> >> > developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and
> >> > intellect.
> >> > Sunday.
> >> >
> >> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
> to
> >> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >> >
> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
> >> and
> >> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >> >
> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
> space
> >> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and
> >> then
> >> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
> >> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those
> >> processes
> >> > may not have the desired outcome.
> >> >
> >> > Mike
> >> >
> >> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Completely agree with Sunday.
> >> >
> >> > Mark.
> >> >
> >> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >> >
> >> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how
> to
> >> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks.
> >> >
> >> > Sunday.
> >> >
> >> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
> following
> >> > news story.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> >> >   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
> >> > only
> >> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> >> Vermeulen
> >> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >> >     Regards,
> >> > rfg
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://
> >> lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > --------------------------------------------------
> >> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> >> > Managing Director
> >> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> >> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> >> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> >> > Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
> >> > ---------------------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> >
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> URL: <
> >>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/582fac38/attachment-0001.html
> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 8
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:28:06 +0100
> >> From: Sylvain Baya <abscoco at gmail.com>
> >> To: "mje at posix.co.za" <mje at posix.co.za>,
> >>         "community-discuss at afrinic.net" <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: [Community-Discuss] [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID:
> >>         <
> >> CAJjTEvE+sHgdAsJUO4D1pYe1eEwCk6WEMosvhknZqS+AwyF6Kg at mail.gmail.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >>
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> Le jeudi 5 d?cembre 2019, Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za> a ?crit :
> >>
> >> > Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to
> >> > manipulate the non-legacy space -
> >> >
> >>
> >> Dear Mark,
> >> ...i agree !
> >>
> >> yet it happened. In this case (looting of non-legacy space), the RSA has
> >> > meant nothing.
> >> >
> >>
> >> As you say, i take you on words ; then if the RSA (Registration Service
> >> Agreement) could
> >> easily be bypassed, how to deal with our 'emerged' problem ?
> >>
> >> ...perhaps time to seriously reconsider the long life DPP (Draft Policy
> >> Proposal) [1] ?
> >> __
> >> [1]: <https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2016-gen-001-d8/amp>
> >>
> >> Shalom,
> >> --sb.
> >>
> >> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
> to
> >> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >> >
> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
> >> and
> >> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >> >
> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
> space
> >> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and
> >> then
> >> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
> >> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those
> >> processes
> >> > may not have the desired outcome.
> >> >
> >> > Mike
> >> >
> >> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Completely agree with Sunday.
> >> >
> >> > Mark.
> >> >
> >> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >> >
> >> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how
> to
> >> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks.
> >> >
> >> > Sunday.
> >> >
> >> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
> following
> >> > news story.
> >> >
> >> > https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-
> >> >
> >>
> resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> >> >   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
> >> > only
> >> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> >> Vermeulen
> >> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >> >     Regards,
> >> > rfg
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://
> >> lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> >
> >> > Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
> >> > mje at posix.co.za       Tel: +27.826010496 <+27826010496>
> >> > For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
> >> >
> >> > [image: Posix Systems][image: VCARD for MJ Elkins]
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> --
> >> Best Regards !
> >> baya.sylvain [AT cmNOG DOT cm] | <https://www.cmnog.cm> | <
> >> https://survey.cmnog.cm>
> >> Subscribe to Mailing List : <
> >> https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/>
> >> __
> >> #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|?#?Romains15?:33?*Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec
> >> vous tous! ?#?Amen?!*?
> >> ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement?
> >> ?*Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me
> soupire
> >> apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!*? (#Psaumes42:2)
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> URL: <
> >>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/63b5ef24/attachment-0001.html
> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 9
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 23:43:48 +0100
> >> From: Isabel Odida <isabel.odida at gmail.com>
> >> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
> >> Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii
> >>
> >> I know what sparked this story. Some people have no chill. How
> convenient
> >> following the last meeting in June. Ok, and then what? What have you
> >> benefited?
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> > On 4 Dec 2019, at 18:23, Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
> following
> >> > news story.
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> >> >
> >> > I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
> >> only
> >> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> >> Vermeulen
> >> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> > rfg
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 10
> >> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 14:44:58 -0800
> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <18818.1575585898 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> In message <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>,
> >> Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >The community has been informed that there is already some internal
> >> >investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
> >> >done.
> >>
> >> Mr. Folayan,
> >>
> >> These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,
> >> 2019, a full three months ago.  Since that time there has not been a
> >> single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,
> >> or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague
> assurances
> >> that these matters are being looked into.
> >>
> >> Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns
> >> about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full
> >> three years ago.
> >>
> >>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html
> >>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html
> >>     https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html
> >>
> >> I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again
> >> repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,
> >> albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention
> >> paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any
> >> concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.
> >>
> >>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html
> >>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html
> >>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html
> >>
> >> At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly
> >> in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive
> >> issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to
> >> entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it
> >> were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the
> >> courageous reporting of MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/>.
> >> Neither the board nor
> >> the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any
> >> clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will
> >> either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders
> >> and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive
> >> any of the findings that it may reach.  And yet despite having had
> >> either three full months or three full years to look into these
> >> matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and
> >> despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming
> >> from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel patience.
> >>
> >> This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the
> >> community's patience to come to an end?  Does the community have any
> >> assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another
> >> three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield
> >> anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the
> >> current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions
> >> of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?
> >>
> >> On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at
> long
> >> last be forthcoming?
> >>
> >> >I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
> >> >established, the law should take its course and people should stand
> >> >accountable for their deeds.
> >>
> >> This assertion on your part begs four further questions:
> >>
> >> 1)  Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been presented
> >> in the MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/> article, the
> >> majority of which were drawn from
> >> publicly available sources including open government records, what more
> >> will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and
> intentions
> >> are established"?  What parts of the abundant documentary evidence
> already
> >> presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?
> >>
> >> 2)  If, as asserted in the MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/
> >
> >> article, it can be persuasively
> >> demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in
> fact
> >> purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that AFRINIC
> >> itself is one of the aggrieved parties?  And if so, would you hope and
> >> expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and
> >> all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?
> >>
> >> 3)  Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and
> >> endemic
> >> within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do
> you
> >> have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all
> >> likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?
> >>
> >> 4)  What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-
> >> documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks from
> >> AFRINIC's own free pool?  Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed
> by
> >> AFRINIC?  Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever
> they
> >> may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten booty
> >> on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?
> >>
> >> >I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
> >> >organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
> >> >years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to
> discover
> >> >the manipulations.
> >>
> >> On this point, you and I are in complete agreement.  "The system", such
> >> as it is, is quite self-evidently broken.  But this raises the further
> >> question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at
> >> AFRINIC,
> >> while all of this was going on.  Is it even plausible that a single bad
> >> actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars
> >> worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a
> >> several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC
> >> staff even noticed any of this?
> >>
> >> >For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
> >> >department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by
> >> now.
> >>
> >> See above.  Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced with
> >> respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself.  No other
> >> single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much
> >> valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself.  And yet we have, as yet, no
> >> clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any staff
> >> member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone
> >> that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated
> >> by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.
> >>
> >> If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new dictionary.
> >>
> >> >While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
> >> >of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
> >> >with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
> >> >rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
> >> >available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of
> our
> >> >time and intellect.
> >>
> >> See above.  With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we
> >> may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"?  I
> have
> >> so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any
> >> document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member of
> >> AFRINIC.  In fact, quite the opposite.  I see that a purported three
> >> month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth publicly
> >> reporting on so far.  I see an attempt to shift the blame for this
> >> colossal
> >> and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders
> >> while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of
> >> AFRINIC itself.  I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action
> >> will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a
> >> backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a general
> >> disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific
> >> national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.
> >>
> >> For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances misplaced,
> >> Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.
> >> The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and
> >> to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or
> >> placed
> >> under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to
> all.
> >> AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding
> >> responsibility.
> >>
> >> I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and effectively
> >> remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still ongoing
> >> after-effects.  I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now
> >> evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the
> carpet
> >> will no longer be considered a vialble option.
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> rfg
> >>
> >>
> >> P.S.  I must strenuously object to your use of the word "whistleblower"
> in
> >> this context Mr. Folayan.  That term is usually used in reference to
> some
> >> insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed
> >> first-hand some malfeasance.  Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this
> >> description.  Rather, we have labored as outsiders only.  We have not
> >> been privy to any "inside" information.  Quite the opposite in fact.  We
> >> have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable requests
> >> for information by AFRINIC staff.
> >>
> >> Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our
> >> reasonable
> >> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.
> >> Exactly
> >> such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four other
> >> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists
> upon
> >> request.  When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such
> unredacted
> >> WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were
> rejected
> >> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved
> policy
> >> was cited as the basis for the denial.
> >>
> >> At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate explanation
> >> for
> >> this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to be
> >> granted at long last.  Certain portions of my research cannot be
> completed
> >> without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved basis
> >> for
> >> the rejection of such requests.
> >>
> >>
> >> P.P.S.  As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the
> >> numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place.  I feel
> >> compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively been
> >> double-victimized in at least two specific instances.
> >>
> >> First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large IPv4
> >> blocks "liberated" from its free pool.  Secondarily and even more
> >> insultingly
> >> however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also
> >> arranged
> >> to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be
> associated
> >> with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other
> >> legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired IPv4
> >> allocations.
> >>
> >> I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy 168.80.0.0/15
> block,
> >> registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the
> >> non-legacy
> >> 196.16.0.0/14 block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization.
> >> These
> >> blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six
> million
> >> U.S. dollars.
> >>
> >> As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD
> >> mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as
> MEMBER-ONLY,
> >> as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold any
> >> actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees to
> >> AFRINIC.
> >>
> >> I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in this
> >> regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it
> does
> >> appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have -both-
> >> stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for years
> >> on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be
> due
> >> on these IPv4 assignments.
> >>
> >> Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further
> >> clarification
> >> with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have been
> >> collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned, for
> >> any year since their allocation to and association with the
> organizations
> >> noted.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 11
> >> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 17:24:26 -0800
> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <19435.1575595466 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> In message <6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com>,
> >> Isabel Odida <isabel.odida at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >I know what sparked this story.
> >>
> >> If you have something to say, then you have our attention and the floor.
> >> Please proceed.
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> rfg
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 12
> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 10:04:06 +0100
> >> From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>
> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >>
> >> Hi Sunday, all,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let
> me
> >> tell why.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My first
> >> AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly after,
> >> during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could contribute to
> >> the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and joining Ernest in
> his
> >> trips to do the Registration Services training so I do IPv6 trainings.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos, I
> >> was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the Madrid
> >> Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from Sunday, I could
> >> resolve that on the next day and flight again to do the training.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that,
> >> and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been
> doing
> >> those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been able to
> take
> >> advantage of that.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as
> well
> >> as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much together,
> >> you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost 15 years.
> Of
> >> course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a hidden face.
> As
> >> humans, we all have positive and negative things. But I?m really
> shocked, I
> >> still resist to believe it.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the position
> >> of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use
> >> your own name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe
> >> someone,? may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to
> >> appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly and
> >> non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean he is
> >> still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or something
> >> similar.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents. If
> >> you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be enough.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,
> and
> >> may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and
> >> involvement an all this.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal interest.
> >> My only interest is to know the *real true* and I?m sure everybody
> agrees
> >> on that.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so no
> >> doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very
> >> thankful for that.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Jordi
> >>
> >> @jordipalet
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <sfolayan at gmail.com> escribi?:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest
> >> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy
> >> space.
> >>
> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal
> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
> done.
> >> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
> established,
> >> the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for
> >> their deeds.
> >>
> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover
> >> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active
> use,
> >> why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for the
> >> common good?
> >>
> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by
> now.
> >>
> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
> of
> >> the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, with
> >> the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather
> >> apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for
> >> developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and
> >> intellect.
> >>
> >> Sunday.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
> >>
> >> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
> >> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
> and
> >> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
> >> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and
> then
> >> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
> >> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those
> processes
> >> may not have the desired outcome.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
> >>
> >> Mark.
> >>
> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >>
> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >>
> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to
> >> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >>
> >> Sunday.
> >>
> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
> >> news story.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> >>   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
> >> only
> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> Vermeulen
> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >>     Regards,
> >> rfg
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> --
> >> --------------------------------------------------
> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> >> Managing Director
> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
> >> ---------------------------------------------------
> >> _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss
> mailing
> >> list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> **********************************************
> >> IPv4 is over
> >> Are you ready for the new Internet ?
> >> http://www.theipv6company.com
> >> The IPv6 Company
> >>
> >> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or
> >> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of
> >> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized
> >> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
> >> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly
> >> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the
> >> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution
> or
> >> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including
> >> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal
> >> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this
> >> communication and delete it.
> >>
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> URL: <
> >>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/e007b6dd/attachment-0001.html
> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 13
> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 10:16:03 +0100
> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
> >> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>, General Discussions
> >>         of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> >>
> >> Dear Mr Guilmette,
> >>
> >> Regrettably, I do not monitor the press, but selected channels such as
> >> this list. It seems I got your attention, or you got my attention, or we
> >> both got each other's attention. Let us therefore maximize the
> possession.
> >>
> >> Important and interesting questions, that you have raised in this email.
> >> Let us put some punch in it. Kindly change the TO: field to
> >> ceo at afrinic.net, and cc the Community just to make sure it is not
> >> ignored, then resend it. I am sure the CEO will answer all the questions
> >> you here posed to me. Pity he has to start his tenure with these hard
> >> nuts and curveballs, but he is capable. He speaks for the Company, not
> me.
> >>
> >> I am equally sure that the Community appreciates the great work done,
> >> and no one supports the exposed fraud. You are a stakeholder, and not
> >> some casual bystander so please note this. What you conveniently
> >> ignored, is that the #1 accused company insider is the eye of the
> >> company on the policy lists, where you raised the issues.
> >>
> >> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should
> >> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more
> >> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking stakeholder.
> >> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.
> >>
> >> My use of the term "Whistleblowers" is appropriate, as I looked at one
> >> of your reference links, and indeed, someone confirmed to you privately
> >> that your hunch is right. If you do not claim the honour, they should,
> >> because you rightly built on their work!
> >>
> >> Great job you are doing.
> >>
> >> Have a great day.
> >>
> >> Sunday.
> >>
> >> On 05/12/2019 23:44, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> > In message <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>,
> >> > Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal
> >> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
> >> >> done.
> >> > Mr. Folayan,
> >> >
> >> > These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,
> >> > 2019, a full three months ago.  Since that time there has not been a
> >> > single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,
> >> > or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague
> >> assurances
> >> > that these matters are being looked into.
> >> >
> >> > Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns
> >> > about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full
> >> > three years ago.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html
> >> >
> >> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html
> >> >      https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html
> >> >
> >> > I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again
> >> > repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,
> >> > albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention
> >> > paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any
> >> > concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.
> >> >
> >> >
> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html
> >> >
> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html
> >> >
> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html
> >> >
> >> > At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly
> >> > in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive
> >> > issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to
> >> > entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it
> >> > were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the
> >> > courageous reporting of MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/
> >.
> >> Neither the board nor
> >> > the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any
> >> > clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will
> >> > either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders
> >> > and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive
> >> > any of the findings that it may reach.  And yet despite having had
> >> > either three full months or three full years to look into these
> >> > matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and
> >> > despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming
> >> > from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel
> patience.
> >> >
> >> > This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the
> >> > community's patience to come to an end?  Does the community have any
> >> > assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another
> >> > three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield
> >> > anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the
> >> > current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions
> >> > of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?
> >> >
> >> > On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at
> >> long
> >> > last be forthcoming?
> >> >
> >> >> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
> >> >> established, the law should take its course and people should stand
> >> >> accountable for their deeds.
> >> > This assertion on your part begs four further questions:
> >> >
> >> > 1)  Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been
> presented
> >> > in the MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/> article, the
> >> majority of which were drawn from
> >> > publicly available sources including open government records, what
> more
> >> > will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and
> >> intentions
> >> > are established"?  What parts of the abundant documentary evidence
> >> already
> >> > presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?
> >> >
> >> > 2)  If, as asserted in the MyBroadband.co.za
> >> <http://mybroadband.co.za/> article, it can be persuasively
> >> > demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in
> >> fact
> >> > purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that
> AFRINIC
> >> > itself is one of the aggrieved parties?  And if so, would you hope and
> >> > expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and
> >> > all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?
> >> >
> >> > 3)  Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and
> >> endemic
> >> > within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do
> >> you
> >> > have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all
> >> > likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?
> >> >
> >> > 4)  What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-
> >> > documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks
> from
> >> > AFRINIC's own free pool?  Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed
> >> by
> >> > AFRINIC?  Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever
> >> they
> >> > may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten
> booty
> >> > on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?
> >> >
> >> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
> >> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards
> of 7
> >> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to
> >> discover
> >> >> the manipulations.
> >> > On this point, you and I are in complete agreement.  "The system",
> such
> >> > as it is, is quite self-evidently broken.  But this raises the further
> >> > question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at
> >> AFRINIC,
> >> > while all of this was going on.  Is it even plausible that a single
> bad
> >> > actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars
> >> > worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a
> >> > several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC
> >> > staff even noticed any of this?
> >> >
> >> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their
> legal
> >> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by
> >> now.
> >> > See above.  Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced
> with
> >> > respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself.  No other
> >> > single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much
> >> > valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself.  And yet we have, as yet, no
> >> > clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any
> staff
> >> > member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone
> >> > that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated
> >> > by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.
> >> >
> >> > If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new
> dictionary.
> >> >
> >> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on
> behalf
> >> >> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system
> here,
> >> >> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
> >> >> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
> >> >> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of
> >> our
> >> >> time and intellect.
> >> > See above.  With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we
> >> > may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"?  I
> >> have
> >> > so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any
> >> > document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member
> of
> >> > AFRINIC.  In fact, quite the opposite.  I see that a purported three
> >> > month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth
> publicly
> >> > reporting on so far.  I see an attempt to shift the blame for this
> >> colossal
> >> > and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders
> >> > while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of
> >> > AFRINIC itself.  I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action
> >> > will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a
> >> > backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a
> general
> >> > disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific
> >> > national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.
> >> >
> >> > For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances
> misplaced,
> >> > Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.
> >> > The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and
> >> > to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or
> >> placed
> >> > under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to
> >> all.
> >> > AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding
> >> responsibility.
> >> >
> >> > I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and
> effectively
> >> > remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still
> ongoing
> >> > after-effects.  I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now
> >> > evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the
> >> carpet
> >> > will no longer be considered a vialble option.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> > rfg
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > P.S.  I must strenuously object to your use of the word
> "whistleblower"
> >> in
> >> > this context Mr. Folayan.  That term is usually used in reference to
> >> some
> >> > insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed
> >> > first-hand some malfeasance.  Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this
> >> > description.  Rather, we have labored as outsiders only.  We have not
> >> > been privy to any "inside" information.  Quite the opposite in fact.
> We
> >> > have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable
> requests
> >> > for information by AFRINIC staff.
> >> >
> >> > Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our
> >> reasonable
> >> > requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.
> >> Exactly
> >> > such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four
> other
> >> > Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists
> >> upon
> >> > request.  When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such
> >> unredacted
> >> > WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were
> >> rejected
> >> > out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved
> >> policy
> >> > was cited as the basis for the denial.
> >> >
> >> > At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate
> >> explanation for
> >> > this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to
> be
> >> > granted at long last.  Certain portions of my research cannot be
> >> completed
> >> > without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved
> basis
> >> for
> >> > the rejection of such requests.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > P.P.S.  As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the
> >> > numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place.  I feel
> >> > compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively
> been
> >> > double-victimized in at least two specific instances.
> >> >
> >> > First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large
> IPv4
> >> > blocks "liberated" from its free pool.  Secondarily and even more
> >> insultingly
> >> > however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also
> >> arranged
> >> > to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be
> >> associated
> >> > with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other
> >> > legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired
> IPv4
> >> > allocations.
> >> >
> >> > I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy 168.80.0.0/15
> >> block,
> >> > registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the
> >> non-legacy
> >> > 196.16.0.0/14 block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization.
> >> These
> >> > blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six
> >> million
> >> > U.S. dollars.
> >> >
> >> > As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD
> >> > mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as
> >> MEMBER-ONLY,
> >> > as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold
> any
> >> > actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees
> to
> >> > AFRINIC.
> >> >
> >> > I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in
> this
> >> > regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it
> >> does
> >> > appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have
> -both-
> >> > stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for
> years
> >> > on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be
> >> due
> >> > on these IPv4 assignments.
> >> >
> >> > Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further
> >> clarification
> >> > with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have
> been
> >> > collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned,
> for
> >> > any year since their allocation to and association with the
> >> organizations
> >> > noted.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >>
> >> --
> >> --------------------------------------------------
> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> >> Managing Director
> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
> >> ---------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 14
> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:07:01 -0800
> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <21084.1575626821 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> Mr. Folayan,
> >>
> >> Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful
> response.
> >>
> >> At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and beyond
> >> what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.
> >>
> >>
> >> In message <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>,
> >> Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should
> >> >conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more
> >> >honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking
> stakeholder.
> >> >It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.
> >>
> >> Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.
> >>
> >> Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to see
> >> the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC.  That is quite certainly not a
> >> goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as
> >> you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder
> >> should wish for.  AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global
> >> Internet governance.  I cannot even envision things as being otherwise.
> >> No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a
> >> few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second.  And to use an
> >> even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing
> >> smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more than
> >> I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the plains.
> >>
> >> If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was being
> >> formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested
> >> that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already
> >> sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it, being
> >> preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere.  Now I may stand on the comfortable
> >> shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but
> >> I do not question the utility of the journey.
> >>
> >> The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think, matters
> >> of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose.  Time will
> >> tell if that is an accurate assesment.
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> rfg
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 15
> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:14:31 +0100
> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
> >> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>, General
> >>         Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <8d06cf43-7c72-07df-e510-96917cd8e0ed at gmail.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
> >>
> >> Good points Jordi, and thanks for the throwback on the very many amazing
> >> sacrifices we all made, to grow the Internet in Africa.
> >>
> >> I will resist asking Ernest to defend himself here, We are not
> >> constituted as a competent jury, neither do we want to compromise the
> >> ongoing investigations.
> >>
> >> Questions are appropriate, so will be his own admissions or rebuttals,
> >> when the investigations are completed.
> >>
> >> I may be wrong, but that is my own expectations and position.
> >>
> >> Sunday.
> >>
> >> On 06/12/2019 10:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hi Sunday, all,
> >> >
> >> > I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let
> >> > me tell why.
> >> >
> >> > I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My
> >> > first AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly
> >> > after, during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could
> >> > contribute to the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and
> >> > joining Ernest in his trips to do the Registration Services training
> >> > so I do IPv6 trainings.
> >> >
> >> > Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos,
> >> > I was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the
> >> > Madrid Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from
> >> > Sunday, I could resolve that on the next day and flight again to do
> >> > the training.
> >> >
> >> > My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that,
> >> > and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been
> >> > doing those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been
> >> > able to take advantage of that.
> >> >
> >> > The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as
> >> > well as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much
> >> > together, you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost
> >> > 15 years. Of course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a
> >> > hidden face. As humans, we all have positive and negative things. But
> >> > I?m really shocked, I still resist to believe it.
> >> >
> >> > I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the
> >> > position of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think
> >> > you will use your own name for registering companies, or instead you
> >> > will bribe someone, may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your
> >> > family name to appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly
> >> > and non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean
> >> > he is still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or
> >> > something similar.
> >> >
> >> > Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents.
> >> > If you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be
> enough.
> >> >
> >> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,
> >> > and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and
> >> > involvement an all this.
> >> >
> >> > Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal
> >> > interest. My only interest is to know the **real true** and I?m sure
> >> > everybody agrees on that.
> >> >
> >> > Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so
> >> > no doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very
> >> > thankful for that.
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> >
> >> > Jordi
> >> >
> >> > @jordipalet
> >> >
> >> > El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <sfolayan at gmail.com
> >> > <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>> escribi?:
> >> >
> >> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway
> >> > suggest that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only
> >> > on legacy space.
> >> >
> >> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal
> >> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
> >> > done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
> >> > established, the law should take its course and people should stand
> >> > accountable for their deeds.
> >> >
> >> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
> >> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of
> >> > 7 years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to
> >> > discover the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or
> >> > in active use, why would or should they not have been returned to the
> >> > Registry for the common good?
> >> >
> >> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their
> >> > legal department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with
> >> > gusto by now.
> >> >
> >> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
> >> > of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
> >> > with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
> >> > rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
> >> > available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of
> >> > our time and intellect.
> >> >
> >> > Sunday.
> >> >
> >> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
> >> >
> >> >     Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there
> >> >     appears to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy
> >> >     space.
> >> >
> >> >     I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the
> >> >     problem and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space
> issue.
> >> >
> >> >     It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
> >> >     space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
> >> >     mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
> >> >     legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then
> >> >     moving legacy space under those processes may not have the desired
> >> >     outcome.
> >> >
> >> >     Mike
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >         On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu
> >> >         <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >         Completely agree with Sunday.
> >> >
> >> >         Mark.
> >> >
> >> >         On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >> >
> >> >             Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically
> >> >             ancient squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet
> >> >             in Africa, AfriNIC Services and bringing legacy spaces
> >> >             under some form of RSA?
> >> >
> >> >             I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let
> >> >             us see how to help and empower the people doing useful
> >> >             work for Africa.
> >> >
> >> >             Thanks.
> >> >
> >> >             Sunday.
> >> >
> >> >             On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> >
> >> >                 I hope you all will take the time to read and think
> >> >                 about the following
> >> >                 news story.
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> >> >
> >> >                 ? I will have more to say about this in due course.?
> >> >                 For the moment, I only
> >> >                 wish to say that the investigation undertaken by
> >> >                 myself and Jan Vermeulen
> >> >                 is ongoing, and that many others are provably
> involved.
> >> >                 ? ? Regards,
> >> >                 rfg
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >                 _______________________________________________
> >> >                 Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >                 Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> >                 <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> >
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >         _______________________________________________
> >> >         Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >         Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> >         <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> >         https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >     _______________________________________________
> >> >
> >> >     Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >
> >> >     Community-Discuss at afrinic.net  <mailto:
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> >
> >> >     https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > --------------------------------------------------
> >> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> >> > Managing Director
> >> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> >> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> >> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> >> > Email:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng  <mailto:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng>,
> >> sfolayan at gmail.com  <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>
> >> > ---------------------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss
> >> > mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > **********************************************
> >> > IPv4 is over
> >> > Are you ready for the new Internet ?
> >> > http://www.theipv6company.com
> >> > The IPv6 Company
> >> >
> >> > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged
> >> > or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive
> >> > use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty
> >> > authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of
> >> > this information, even if partially, including attached files, is
> >> > strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you
> >> > are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying,
> >> > distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if
> >> > partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be
> >> > considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original
> >> > sender to inform about this communication and delete it.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >>
> >> --
> >> --------------------------------------------------
> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> >> Managing Director
> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
> >> ---------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> URL: <
> >>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/8c6c63d5/attachment-0001.html
> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 16
> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 12:17:52 +0200
> >> From: Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>
> >> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>
> >> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > On 6 Dec 2019, at 11:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss <
> >> community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,
> >> and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and
> >> involvement an all this.
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> :-)  Might as well setup a confession booth and provide absolution of
> >> souls.  On a serious note, we need a proper investigation.  Let?s wait
> to
> >> hear from the CEO
> >>
> >> Omo
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> URL: <
> >>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/4e0f75fc/attachment-0001.html
> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 17
> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:21:40 +0100
> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
> >> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>, General Discussions
> >>         of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <c071ab53-ba47-a98a-8e28-d97187ae8c10 at gmail.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> >>
> >> Dear Mr Guilmette,
> >>
> >> On 06/12/2019 11:07, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> > Mr. Folayan,
> >> >
> >> > Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful
> >> response.
> >> >
> >> > At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and
> beyond
> >> > what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > In message <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>,
> >> > Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we
> should
> >> >> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much
> more
> >> >> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking
> >> stakeholder.
> >> >> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.
> >> > Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.
> >> >
> >> > Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to
> see
> >> > the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC.  That is quite certainly not a
> >> > goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as
> >> > you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder
> >> > should wish for.  AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global
> >> > Internet governance.  I cannot even envision things as being
> otherwise.
> >> > No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a
> >> > few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second.  And to use an
> >> > even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing
> >> > smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more
> than
> >> > I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the
> plains.
> >> >
> >> > If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was
> being
> >> > formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested
> >> > that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already
> >> > sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it,
> being
> >> > preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere.  Now I may stand on the comfortable
> >> > shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but
> >> > I do not question the utility of the journey.
> >> >
> >> > The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think,
> matters
> >> > of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose.  Time will
> >> > tell if that is an accurate assesment.
> >>
> >>
> >> This is most assuring and comforting at the same time.
> >>
> >> If I have sounded off-key, please accept my sincere apologies, and thank
> >> you very much for the good job you have done for the community so far.
> >> History will never forget your role and progressive disposition at this
> >> point in time.
> >>
> >> When AfriNIC was being formed, the challenges of today, were not
> >> envisioned in the very many ways that they now present themselves.
> >> Africa has come a long way. Unfortunately, there are still many more
> >> oceans to cross, but we will all band together as a purposeful fleet.
> >> That is how we can all weather the storms that may come, but sure they
> >> will come.
> >>
> >> With kind Regards ...
> >>
> >> Sunday.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 18
> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:58:27 -0800
> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <21283.1575629907 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> In message <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es>,
> >> JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es> wrote:
> >>
> >> >I also believe that he is a smart guy.
> >>
> >> I would not dispute that characterization in the slightest.
> >>
> >> >So, put yourself in the position of
> >> >a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use
> >> your o
> >> >wn name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe
> >> someone,=C2=A0
> >> > may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to appear
> in
> >> an
> >> >y documents? I feel this is really silly and non-understandable.
> >>
> >> And yet it seemed to work, for years on end, with no one raising so much
> >> as an eyebrow because nobody seriously investigated or seriously looked
> >> at all of the relevant corporate documents and WHOIS records and, in
> >> particular, the historical WHOIS records, including but not limited to
> >> these ones:
> >>
> >> ORG-AI2-AFRINIC     https://pastebin.com/raw/7rqfP1LD
> >> ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC   https://pastebin.com/raw/Nx79QkgB
> >> ORG-IA41-AFRINIC    https://pastebin.com/raw/ynEXMyCP
> >> ORG-ZZ139-AFRINIC   https://pastebin.com/raw/GX5egcbW
> >> ORG-ZZ23-AFRINIC    https://pastebin.com/raw/Yu8K9z6N
> >>
> >> I have been chasing down miscreants on the Internet for more than 20
> years
> >> now.  One of the lessons I have learned in that time is that none of
> them
> >> are ten feet tall, and the majority of them absolutely suck at OPSEC.
> It
> >> is almost as if some part of them is deluding their own brains into the
> >> false belief that what they are doing is not really wrong, in some
> >> sense, and that they are somehow actually entitled to the stuff they are
> >> stealing, and that thus, at some level, they don't actually need to hide
> >> what they are doing all that throughly, because just as White House
> Chief
> >> of Staff Mick Mulvaney did not long ago... much to the shock of
> >> everyone...
> >> if they are ever caught and confronted they assume that they will just
> say
> >> "Yea.  So?  We do that all of the time.  Get over it!"
> >>
> >> >So maybe
> >> >somebody used him, which doesn=E2=80=99t mean he is still guilty
> >> =E2=80=9Cin
> >> >vigilando=E2=80=9D because he trusted anyone else, or something
> similar.
> >>
> >> It's a nice thought, and you are a generous person to allow this
> >> possibility
> >> Jordi.  All I can say is that other information, not yet made public,
> >> appears to rule out the possibility that Mr. Byaruhanga was either an
> >> unwitting stooge or a convenient fall guy.
> >>
> >> >Do we believe in =E2=80=9Cpresumption of innocence=E2=80=9D? I do,
> >> despite
> >> >documents. If you don=E2=80=99t know the complete background, documents
> >> may
> >> >not be enough.
> >>
> >> I agree.
> >>
> >> That having been said, I hope that you will, as I have, spend some time
> >> carefully scrutinizing both the current and historical WHOIS records
> >> associated with the ORGanizations and the IPv4 blocks listed in the two
> >> tables in Jan's article.  If you do that, I think that you will be, as
> >> I was, hard pressed to explain all of the quite glaring anomalies in
> >> any way that does not involve a great deal of very deliberate malfesance
> >> on somebody's part.  Once you are convinced of that, then the question
> >> becomes:  Who is responsible?  And it is at that point that the various
> >> official governmental corporate registration records would seem to
> become
> >> very relevant.
> >>
> >> >So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,
> and
> >> >may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and
> >> involvement
> >> >an all this.
> >>
> >> I would like to echo that sentiment.
> >>
> >> Jan Vermeulen and myself have tried, repeatedly, and over some
> significant
> >> time now to reach him, both via voice, at a number of different phone
> >> numbers
> >> that we have identified as being associated with him, and also via
> email,
> >> at various of his known email addresses, and we have been utterly unable
> >> to
> >> do so.  We both very much look forward to speaking with him and getting
> >> his
> >> side of the story, if he has one.
> >>
> >> That having been said, we cannot be blamed, I think, for reaching
> certain
> >> reasonable conclusions when Jan's industry sources informed him, less
> than
> >> a day after I had attempted to confront Ernest, via email, with the
> facts
> >> arrayed against him, that he had abruptly resigned his position at
> AFRINIC
> >> after 15 years on the job.
> >>
> >> His abrupt resignation was and remains his only apparent response to our
> >> inquiries.
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> rfg
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 19
> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 03:16:57 -0800
> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <21648.1575631017 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> In message <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net>,
> >> Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On a serious note, we need a proper investigation.  Let's
> >> >wait to hear from the CEO
> >>
> >> Have any of us been doing otherwise, for lo these past three months now?
> >>
> >> Have we been afforded any other choice in the matter?
> >>
> >> Can AFRINIC clean its own stables?
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> rfg
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Subject: Digest Footer
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> End of Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1
> >> *************************************************
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > *Ogundele Olumuyiwa Caleb*
> > *muyiwacaleb at gmail.com <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>*
> > *234 - 8077377378*
> > *234 - 07030777969*
> > _______________________________________________
> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >
> -------------- next part --------------
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> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 551, Issue 1
> *************************************************
>
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From muyiwacaleb at gmail.com  Tue Dec 10 17:07:55 2019
From: muyiwacaleb at gmail.com (Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele)
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 18:07:55 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 551, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <CAHcb0ASgpJL0_S-jRAcNhyDFmfK8hVh9chFJAsKTAHnL5GKsiQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1860.1575986283.5925.community-discuss@afrinic.net>
 <CAHcb0ASgpJL0_S-jRAcNhyDFmfK8hVh9chFJAsKTAHnL5GKsiQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAL_ZvK6RM8YCU8Cn_eu7Sq=WvKyauvR6FE-MbDPujX6zPE4rBg@mail.gmail.com>

@Anthony,

I believe this is not an RPD list. An opinion does not constitute to making
a case for a policy or going against it.

You can raise such issues on RPD which is an appropriate forum for such
policy conversation. I only aired an opinion.

Thank you

Caleb

On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 5:47 PM Anthony Ubah <ubah.tonyiyke at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Caleb and Arnaud,
>
>
>
> I?m confused about your insinuation on this with respect to the solving
> the problem at hand. From the surface value, it looks like a very good
> policy. However, I still struggle to decipher with the practicality of
> implementing the Internet Number Resource review policy, and the
> consequences in the real world.
>
> African is a region of complex and opaque soc-political systems.
> Introducing such complex policies will most likely not lead to an abuse of
> power, over-policing, and victimization. Introducing a Gestapo style
> policing will create a cancerous system which will be unfavorable to the
> region? as a whole.
>
> I was at the at just concluded meeting where this policy was
> re-represented, giving the feedback from the community, I hoped to see a
> revised version but alas! it was the same.
>
>
>
> *Best Regards,*
>
> *ANTHONY *
>
> E-mail: anthony.ubah at goldspine.com <anthony.ubah at gloworld.com>.ng
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 2:58 PM <community-discuss-request at afrinic.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to
>>         community-discuss at afrinic.net
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>         https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>         community-discuss-request at afrinic.net
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>         community-discuss-owner at afrinic.net
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. Re: Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1 (Arnaud AMELINA)
>>    2. Re: Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1 (Arnaud AMELINA)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:48:37 +0000
>> From: Arnaud AMELINA <amelnaud at gmail.com>
>> To: Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>
>> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547,
>>         Issue 1
>> Message-ID:
>>         <CAGDMR_cXHVW34SOD40wNBOrhiVOzR1-p+=
>> CPTkSvfPCLee3mPw at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> +1 to Caleb as you say it, it's time to find consensus on review policy.
>>
>> Regard
>>
>> --
>> Arnaud
>>
>> Le ven. 6 d?c. 2019 ? 15:48, Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <
>> muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>
>> a ?crit :
>>
>> > Dear Ronald,
>> >
>> > So I read where this comment below was attributed to you.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > *>?Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our
>> > reasonable> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS
>> > database.  Exactly> such unredacted database dumps *are* provided by
>> all of
>> > the four other> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers
>> and
>> > journalists upon> request.  When we submitted repeated requests for
>> exactly
>> > such unredacted> WHOIS database dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our
>> > requests were rejected> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any
>> > community-approved policy> was cited as the basis for the denial.?*
>> > While not taking brief for AFRINIC or any of its staff, I feel you
>> should
>> > know that AFRINIC?s operation is also being governed by Mauritius data
>> > protection law.
>> > Mauritius regulates data protection under the Data Protection Act 2017
>> > (DPA 2017 or Act), proclaimed through Proclamation No. 3 of 2018,
>> effective
>> > January 15, 2018. The Act repeals and replaces the Data Protection Act
>> > 2004, so as to align with the European Union General Data Protection
>> > Regulation 2016/679 (GDPR).
>> >
>> > Even if you are not familiar with Mauritius law, the EU GDPR which is
>> more
>> > popular should tell you the implication of revealing a WHOIS database
>> to a
>> > non-state prosecutorial actor like yourself who does not have a court
>> > warrant to see the redacted sections you seek. Please correct me if I?m
>> > wrong in my legal analysis of your request.
>> >
>> > Perhaps, isn?t it time for the community to revisit the Internet Number
>> > Resources review policy
>> > <https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal> which was not
>> > on the docket for policy at this just-concluded meeting?
>> > https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal
>> >
>> > We might be doing something right this time if that policy will allow
>> for
>> > a diligent review of resources including the legacy ones.
>> >
>> > Regards
>> >
>> > Caleb Ogundele
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 12:17 PM <community-discuss-request at afrinic.net>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to
>> >>         community-discuss at afrinic.net
>> >>
>> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> >>         https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> >>         community-discuss-request at afrinic.net
>> >>
>> >> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> >>         community-discuss-owner at afrinic.net
>> >>
>> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> >> than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..."
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Today's Topics:
>> >>
>> >>    1. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)
>> >>    2. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mike Silber)
>> >>    3. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Elkins)
>> >>    4. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Andrew Alston)
>> >>    5. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)
>> >>    6. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
>> >>    7. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)
>> >>    8. [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC (Sylvain Baya)
>> >>    9. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Isabel Odida)
>> >>   10. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
>> >>   11. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
>> >>   12. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)
>> >>   13. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
>> >>   14. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
>> >>   15. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
>> >>   16. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)
>> >>   17. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
>> >>   18. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
>> >>   19. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 1
>> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:27:42 +0200
>> >> From: Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu>
>> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >> Message-ID: <9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16 at seacom.mu>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> >>
>> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >>
>> >> Mark.
>> >>
>> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> >> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> >> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >> >
>> >> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how
>> >> > to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks.
>> >> >
>> >> > Sunday.
>> >> >
>> >> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
>> following
>> >> >> news story.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the moment,
>> >> >> I only
>> >> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> >> >> Vermeulen
>> >> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >> >> ? ? Regards,
>> >> >> rfg
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> >>
>> >>
>> >> -------------- next part --------------
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>> >> URL: <
>> >>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/7f6aa1b8/attachment-0001.html
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 2
>> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:46:15 +0200
>> >> From: Mike Silber <silber.mike at gmail.com>
>> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >> Message-ID: <2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3 at gmail.com>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >>
>> >> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
>> >> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>> >>
>> >> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
>> and
>> >> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>> >>
>> >> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
>> space
>> >> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and
>> then
>> >> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
>> >> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those
>> processes
>> >> may not have the desired outcome.
>> >>
>> >> Mike
>> >>
>> >> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >> >
>> >> > Mark.
>> >> >
>> >> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> >> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> >> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see
>> how
>> >> to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Thanks.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Sunday.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >> >>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
>> >> following
>> >> >>> news story.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >> <
>> >>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >
>> >>
>> >> >>>   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the
>> moment,
>> >> I only
>> >> >>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> >> Vermeulen
>> >> >>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >> >>>     Regards,
>> >> >>> rfg
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >>
>> >> -------------- next part --------------
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>> >>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/1d4a9dec/attachment-0001.html
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 3
>> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:59:57 +0200
>> >> From: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za>
>> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >> Message-ID: <007bb014-4eb8-157f-5312-f8333782f32f at posix.co.za>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>> >>
>> >> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to
>> >> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case
>> (looting
>> >> of non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.
>> >>
>> >> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
>> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
>> >> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>> >> >
>> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
>> >> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>> >> >
>> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
>> >> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
>> >> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
>> >> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving
>> >> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.
>> >> >
>> >> > Mike
>> >> >
>> >> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu
>> >> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Mark.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> >> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa,
>> AfriNIC
>> >> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see
>> >> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Thanks.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Sunday.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
>> >> >>>> following
>> >> >>>> news story.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the
>> >> >>>> moment, I only
>> >> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> >> >>>> Vermeulen
>> >> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >> >>>> ? ? Regards,
>> >> >>>> rfg
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >
>> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >> Mark James ELKINS? -? Posix Systems - (South) Africa
>> >> mje at posix.co.za?????? Tel: +27.826010496 <tel:+27826010496>
>> >> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
>> >>
>> >> Posix SystemsVCARD for MJ Elkins
>> >>
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>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 4
>> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:10:48 +0000
>> >> From: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
>> >> To: "mje at posix.co.za" <mje at posix.co.za>,
>> >>         "community-discuss at afrinic.net" <community-discuss at afrinic.net
>> >
>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >> Message-ID:
>> >>         <
>> >>
>> DBBPR03MB5415D6F757C9E3BD1AE2CDE4EE5C0 at DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>> >>
>> >> I would be very curious to hear from a legal perspective what - if any
>> -
>> >> legal liability AfriNIC has in a situation like this.
>> >>
>> >> The fact is - space has value - and if space is stolen - used for spam
>> or
>> >> whatever else - and the reputation of said space is damaged - it?s
>> value
>> >> decreases.  Now I fully realize that space can be hijacked - and at
>> that
>> >> point potentially the hijackers may hold the liability. However - when
>> the
>> >> space seems to have been stolen and sold off by a staff member of the
>> >> organization that is meant in effect to the curator of the space - I
>> >> question if there is not a liability issue at play if it can be proven
>> that
>> >> due care was not taken to safe guard against the actions taken.
>> >>
>> >> I?m no lawyer though so I would really be interested to know the legal
>> >> perspective - can an rir be held liable to the actions of its staff if
>> it
>> >> did not adequately protect against the actions taken.
>> >>
>> >> Andrew
>> >>
>> >> Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
>> >> ________________________________
>> >> From: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za>
>> >> Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 3:59:57 PM
>> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to
>> >> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case
>> (looting of
>> >> non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.
>> >>
>> >> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
>> >> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
>> >> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>> >>
>> >> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
>> and
>> >> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>> >>
>> >> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
>> space
>> >> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and
>> then
>> >> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
>> >> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those
>> processes
>> >> may not have the desired outcome.
>> >>
>> >> Mike
>> >>
>> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu<mailto:
>> >> mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >>
>> >> Mark.
>> >>
>> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> >> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> >> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >>
>> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how
>> to
>> >> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks.
>> >>
>> >> Sunday.
>> >>
>> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
>> >> news story.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >> <
>> >>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >> >
>> >>   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
>> >> only
>> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> Vermeulen
>> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >>     Regards,
>> >> rfg
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >> Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
>> >> mje at posix.co.za<mailto:mje at posix.co.za>       Tel:
>> >> +27.826010496<tel:+27826010496>
>> >> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za<
>> >> https://ftth.posix.co.za>
>> >>
>> >> [Posix            Systems][VCARD for            MJ Elkins]
>> >> -------------- next part --------------
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>> >> >
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>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 5
>> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 15:11:04 +0200
>> >> From: Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu>
>> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >> Message-ID: <7fa06e69-5728-f936-ce1d-f471893ccc17 at seacom.mu>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> >>
>> >> I don't disagree with that either.
>> >>
>> >> I am certain AFRINIC are working on this, and I know there will be no
>> >> shortage of queries about this from the field, much to our
>> >> already-clogged e-mail boxes. I don't want to do the jobs of others; no
>> >> one is doing mine for me.
>> >>
>> >> My preferred current focus - your last paragraph, below.
>> >>
>> >> Mark.
>> >>
>> >> On 5/Dec/19 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
>> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
>> >> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>> >> >
>> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
>> >> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>> >> >
>> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
>> >> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
>> >> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
>> >> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving
>> >> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.?
>> >> >
>> >> > Mike
>> >> >
>> >> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu
>> >> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Mark.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> >> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa,
>> AfriNIC
>> >> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see
>> >> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Thanks.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Sunday.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
>> >> >>>> following
>> >> >>>> news story.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the
>> >> >>>> moment, I only
>> >> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> >> >>>> Vermeulen
>> >> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >> >>>> ? ? Regards,
>> >> >>>> rfg
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >
>> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> -------------- next part --------------
>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> >> URL: <
>> >>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/c8c491fa/attachment-0001.html
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 6
>> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 19:54:21 +0100
>> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
>> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >> Message-ID: <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"
>> >>
>> >> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway
>> suggest
>> >> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy
>> >> space.
>> >>
>> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal
>> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
>> >> done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
>> >> established, the law should take its course and people should stand
>> >> accountable for their deeds.
>> >>
>> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
>> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
>> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to
>> discover
>> >> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active
>> >> use, why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry
>> for
>> >> the common good?
>> >>
>> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
>> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by
>> now.
>> >>
>> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
>> >> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
>> >> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
>> >> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
>> >> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of
>> our
>> >> time and intellect.
>> >>
>> >> Sunday.
>> >>
>> >> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
>> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
>> >> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>> >> >
>> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
>> >> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>> >> >
>> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
>> >> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
>> >> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
>> >> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving
>> >> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.
>> >> >
>> >> > Mike
>> >> >
>> >> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu
>> >> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Mark.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> >> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa,
>> AfriNIC
>> >> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see
>> >> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Thanks.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Sunday.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
>> >> >>>> following
>> >> >>>> news story.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the
>> >> >>>> moment, I only
>> >> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> >> >>>> Vermeulen
>> >> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >> >>>> ? ? Regards,
>> >> >>>> rfg
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >
>> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> --------------------------------------------------
>> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
>> >> Managing Director
>> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
>> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
>> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
>> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> -------------- next part --------------
>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> >> URL: <
>> >>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/118317f5/attachment-0001.html
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 7
>> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:15:59 +0200
>> >> From: Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>
>> >> To: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
>> >> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >> Message-ID:
>> >>         <CAG1eoi3w-F2Ui-BfiKmBqYJ=
>> >> srHdvBJx2F5vS2k__asGCVTwVw at mail.gmail.com>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> >>
>> >> I have to agree with this. As shocking and disappointing as the
>> >> revelations
>> >> might be, this makes the most sense to me.
>> >>
>> >> Omo
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, 5 Dec 2019, 20:56 Sunday Folayan, <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway
>> suggest
>> >> > that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on
>> legacy
>> >> > space.
>> >> >
>> >> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal
>> >> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
>> >> done.
>> >> > I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
>> >> established,
>> >> > the law should take its course and people should stand accountable
>> for
>> >> > their deeds.
>> >> >
>> >> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
>> >> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards
>> of 7
>> >> > years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to
>> discover
>> >> > the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in
>> active
>> >> use,
>> >> > why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for
>> the
>> >> > common good?
>> >> >
>> >> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their
>> legal
>> >> > department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by
>> >> now.
>> >> >
>> >> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on
>> behalf
>> >> of
>> >> > the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
>> with
>> >> > the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
>> rather
>> >> > apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available
>> for
>> >> > developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and
>> >> > intellect.
>> >> > Sunday.
>> >> >
>> >> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
>> to
>> >> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>> >> >
>> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
>> >> and
>> >> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>> >> >
>> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
>> space
>> >> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated
>> and
>> >> then
>> >> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
>> >> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those
>> >> processes
>> >> > may not have the desired outcome.
>> >> >
>> >> > Mike
>> >> >
>> >> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >> >
>> >> > Mark.
>> >> >
>> >> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> >> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> >> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >> >
>> >> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see
>> how to
>> >> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks.
>> >> >
>> >> > Sunday.
>> >> >
>> >> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
>> following
>> >> > news story.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >> >   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment,
>> I
>> >> > only
>> >> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> >> Vermeulen
>> >> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >> >     Regards,
>> >> > rfg
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://
>> >> lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > --------------------------------------------------
>> >> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan
>> >> > Managing Director
>> >> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
>> >> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
>> >> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
>> >> > Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
>> >> > ---------------------------------------------------
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> >
>> >> -------------- next part --------------
>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> >> URL: <
>> >>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/582fac38/attachment-0001.html
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 8
>> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:28:06 +0100
>> >> From: Sylvain Baya <abscoco at gmail.com>
>> >> To: "mje at posix.co.za" <mje at posix.co.za>,
>> >>         "community-discuss at afrinic.net" <community-discuss at afrinic.net
>> >
>> >> Subject: [Community-Discuss] [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >> Message-ID:
>> >>         <
>> >> CAJjTEvE+sHgdAsJUO4D1pYe1eEwCk6WEMosvhknZqS+AwyF6Kg at mail.gmail.com>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> >>
>> >> Hi all,
>> >>
>> >> Le jeudi 5 d?cembre 2019, Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za> a ?crit :
>> >>
>> >> > Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to
>> >> > manipulate the non-legacy space -
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Dear Mark,
>> >> ...i agree !
>> >>
>> >> yet it happened. In this case (looting of non-legacy space), the RSA
>> has
>> >> > meant nothing.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> As you say, i take you on words ; then if the RSA (Registration Service
>> >> Agreement) could
>> >> easily be bypassed, how to deal with our 'emerged' problem ?
>> >>
>> >> ...perhaps time to seriously reconsider the long life DPP (Draft Policy
>> >> Proposal) [1] ?
>> >> __
>> >> [1]: <https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2016-gen-001-d8/amp>
>> >>
>> >> Shalom,
>> >> --sb.
>> >>
>> >> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
>> to
>> >> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>> >> >
>> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
>> >> and
>> >> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>> >> >
>> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
>> space
>> >> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated
>> and
>> >> then
>> >> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
>> >> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those
>> >> processes
>> >> > may not have the desired outcome.
>> >> >
>> >> > Mike
>> >> >
>> >> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >> >
>> >> > Mark.
>> >> >
>> >> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> >> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> >> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >> >
>> >> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see
>> how to
>> >> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks.
>> >> >
>> >> > Sunday.
>> >> >
>> >> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
>> following
>> >> > news story.
>> >> >
>> >> > https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-
>> >> >
>> >>
>> resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >> >   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment,
>> I
>> >> > only
>> >> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> >> Vermeulen
>> >> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >> >     Regards,
>> >> > rfg
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://
>> >> lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> >
>> >> > Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
>> >> > mje at posix.co.za       Tel: +27.826010496 <+27826010496>
>> >> > For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA:
>> https://ftth.posix.co.za
>> >> >
>> >> > [image: Posix Systems][image: VCARD for MJ Elkins]
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Best Regards !
>> >> baya.sylvain [AT cmNOG DOT cm] | <https://www.cmnog.cm> | <
>> >> https://survey.cmnog.cm>
>> >> Subscribe to Mailing List : <
>> >> https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/>
>> >> __
>> >> #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|?#?Romains15?:33?*Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit
>> avec
>> >> vous tous! ?#?Amen?!*?
>> >> ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement?
>> >> ?*Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me
>> soupire
>> >> apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!*? (#Psaumes42:2)
>> >> -------------- next part --------------
>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> >> URL: <
>> >>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/63b5ef24/attachment-0001.html
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 9
>> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 23:43:48 +0100
>> >> From: Isabel Odida <isabel.odida at gmail.com>
>> >> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
>> >> Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >> Message-ID: <6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii
>> >>
>> >> I know what sparked this story. Some people have no chill. How
>> convenient
>> >> following the last meeting in June. Ok, and then what? What have you
>> >> benefited?
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>
>> >> > On 4 Dec 2019, at 18:23, Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
>> following
>> >> > news story.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >> >
>> >> > I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
>> >> only
>> >> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> >> Vermeulen
>> >> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Regards,
>> >> > rfg
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 10
>> >> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 14:44:58 -0800
>> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
>> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >> Message-ID: <18818.1575585898 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >>
>> >> In message <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>,
>> >> Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >The community has been informed that there is already some internal
>> >> >investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
>> >> >done.
>> >>
>> >> Mr. Folayan,
>> >>
>> >> These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,
>> >> 2019, a full three months ago.  Since that time there has not been a
>> >> single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,
>> >> or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague
>> assurances
>> >> that these matters are being looked into.
>> >>
>> >> Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns
>> >> about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full
>> >> three years ago.
>> >>
>> >>
>> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html
>> >>
>> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html
>> >>     https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html
>> >>
>> >> I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again
>> >> repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,
>> >> albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention
>> >> paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any
>> >> concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.
>> >>
>> >>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html
>> >>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html
>> >>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html
>> >>
>> >> At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly
>> >> in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive
>> >> issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to
>> >> entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it
>> >> were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the
>> >> courageous reporting of MyBroadband.co.za.  Neither the board nor
>> >> the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any
>> >> clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will
>> >> either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders
>> >> and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive
>> >> any of the findings that it may reach.  And yet despite having had
>> >> either three full months or three full years to look into these
>> >> matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and
>> >> despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming
>> >> from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel patience.
>> >>
>> >> This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the
>> >> community's patience to come to an end?  Does the community have any
>> >> assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another
>> >> three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield
>> >> anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the
>> >> current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions
>> >> of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?
>> >>
>> >> On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at
>> long
>> >> last be forthcoming?
>> >>
>> >> >I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
>> >> >established, the law should take its course and people should stand
>> >> >accountable for their deeds.
>> >>
>> >> This assertion on your part begs four further questions:
>> >>
>> >> 1)  Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been
>> presented
>> >> in the MyBroadband.co.za article, the majority of which were drawn
>> from
>> >> publicly available sources including open government records, what more
>> >> will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and
>> intentions
>> >> are established"?  What parts of the abundant documentary evidence
>> already
>> >> presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?
>> >>
>> >> 2)  If, as asserted in the MyBroadband.co.za article, it can be
>> >> persuasively
>> >> demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in
>> fact
>> >> purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that AFRINIC
>> >> itself is one of the aggrieved parties?  And if so, would you hope and
>> >> expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and
>> >> all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?
>> >>
>> >> 3)  Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and
>> >> endemic
>> >> within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do
>> you
>> >> have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all
>> >> likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?
>> >>
>> >> 4)  What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-
>> >> documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks
>> from
>> >> AFRINIC's own free pool?  Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed
>> by
>> >> AFRINIC?  Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever
>> they
>> >> may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten booty
>> >> on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?
>> >>
>> >> >I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
>> >> >organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of
>> 7
>> >> >years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to
>> discover
>> >> >the manipulations.
>> >>
>> >> On this point, you and I are in complete agreement.  "The system", such
>> >> as it is, is quite self-evidently broken.  But this raises the further
>> >> question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at
>> >> AFRINIC,
>> >> while all of this was going on.  Is it even plausible that a single bad
>> >> actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars
>> >> worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a
>> >> several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC
>> >> staff even noticed any of this?
>> >>
>> >> >For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their
>> legal
>> >> >department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by
>> >> now.
>> >>
>> >> See above.  Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced with
>> >> respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself.  No other
>> >> single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much
>> >> valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself.  And yet we have, as yet, no
>> >> clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any staff
>> >> member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone
>> >> that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated
>> >> by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.
>> >>
>> >> If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new
>> dictionary.
>> >>
>> >> >While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
>> >> >of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
>> >> >with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
>> >> >rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
>> >> >available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of
>> our
>> >> >time and intellect.
>> >>
>> >> See above.  With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we
>> >> may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"?  I
>> have
>> >> so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any
>> >> document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member of
>> >> AFRINIC.  In fact, quite the opposite.  I see that a purported three
>> >> month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth
>> publicly
>> >> reporting on so far.  I see an attempt to shift the blame for this
>> >> colossal
>> >> and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders
>> >> while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of
>> >> AFRINIC itself.  I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action
>> >> will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a
>> >> backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a general
>> >> disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific
>> >> national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.
>> >>
>> >> For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances misplaced,
>> >> Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.
>> >> The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and
>> >> to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or
>> >> placed
>> >> under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to
>> all.
>> >> AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding
>> >> responsibility.
>> >>
>> >> I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and effectively
>> >> remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still ongoing
>> >> after-effects.  I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now
>> >> evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the
>> carpet
>> >> will no longer be considered a vialble option.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >> rfg
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> P.S.  I must strenuously object to your use of the word
>> "whistleblower" in
>> >> this context Mr. Folayan.  That term is usually used in reference to
>> some
>> >> insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed
>> >> first-hand some malfeasance.  Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this
>> >> description.  Rather, we have labored as outsiders only.  We have not
>> >> been privy to any "inside" information.  Quite the opposite in fact.
>> We
>> >> have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable requests
>> >> for information by AFRINIC staff.
>> >>
>> >> Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our
>> >> reasonable
>> >> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.
>> >> Exactly
>> >> such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four other
>> >> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists
>> upon
>> >> request.  When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such
>> unredacted
>> >> WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were
>> rejected
>> >> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved
>> policy
>> >> was cited as the basis for the denial.
>> >>
>> >> At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate
>> explanation
>> >> for
>> >> this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to be
>> >> granted at long last.  Certain portions of my research cannot be
>> completed
>> >> without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved basis
>> >> for
>> >> the rejection of such requests.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> P.P.S.  As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the
>> >> numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place.  I feel
>> >> compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively been
>> >> double-victimized in at least two specific instances.
>> >>
>> >> First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large
>> IPv4
>> >> blocks "liberated" from its free pool.  Secondarily and even more
>> >> insultingly
>> >> however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also
>> >> arranged
>> >> to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be
>> associated
>> >> with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other
>> >> legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired
>> IPv4
>> >> allocations.
>> >>
>> >> I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy 168.80.0.0/15
>> block,
>> >> registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the
>> >> non-legacy
>> >> 196.16.0.0/14 block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization.
>> >> These
>> >> blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six
>> million
>> >> U.S. dollars.
>> >>
>> >> As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD
>> >> mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as
>> MEMBER-ONLY,
>> >> as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold any
>> >> actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees to
>> >> AFRINIC.
>> >>
>> >> I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in this
>> >> regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it
>> does
>> >> appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have
>> -both-
>> >> stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for years
>> >> on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be
>> due
>> >> on these IPv4 assignments.
>> >>
>> >> Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further
>> >> clarification
>> >> with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have been
>> >> collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned,
>> for
>> >> any year since their allocation to and association with the
>> organizations
>> >> noted.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 11
>> >> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 17:24:26 -0800
>> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
>> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >> Message-ID: <19435.1575595466 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >>
>> >> In message <6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com>,
>> >> Isabel Odida <isabel.odida at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >I know what sparked this story.
>> >>
>> >> If you have something to say, then you have our attention and the
>> floor.
>> >> Please proceed.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >> rfg
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 12
>> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 10:04:06 +0100
>> >> From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>
>> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >> Message-ID: <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> >>
>> >> Hi Sunday, all,
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let
>> me
>> >> tell why.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My
>> first
>> >> AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly after,
>> >> during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could contribute
>> to
>> >> the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and joining Ernest
>> in his
>> >> trips to do the Registration Services training so I do IPv6 trainings.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos, I
>> >> was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the Madrid
>> >> Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from Sunday, I
>> could
>> >> resolve that on the next day and flight again to do the training.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that,
>> >> and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been
>> doing
>> >> those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been able to
>> take
>> >> advantage of that.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as
>> well
>> >> as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much
>> together,
>> >> you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost 15 years.
>> Of
>> >> course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a hidden face.
>> As
>> >> humans, we all have positive and negative things. But I?m really
>> shocked, I
>> >> still resist to believe it.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the position
>> >> of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use
>> >> your own name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe
>> >> someone,? may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to
>> >> appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly and
>> >> non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean he
>> is
>> >> still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or
>> something
>> >> similar.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents.
>> If
>> >> you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be enough.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,
>> and
>> >> may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and
>> >> involvement an all this.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal interest.
>> >> My only interest is to know the *real true* and I?m sure everybody
>> agrees
>> >> on that.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so
>> no
>> >> doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very
>> >> thankful for that.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >>
>> >> Jordi
>> >>
>> >> @jordipalet
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <sfolayan at gmail.com> escribi?:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway
>> suggest
>> >> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy
>> >> space.
>> >>
>> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal
>> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
>> done.
>> >> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
>> established,
>> >> the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for
>> >> their deeds.
>> >>
>> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
>> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
>> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to
>> discover
>> >> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active
>> use,
>> >> why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for the
>> >> common good?
>> >>
>> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
>> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by
>> now.
>> >>
>> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
>> of
>> >> the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
>> with
>> >> the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather
>> >> apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for
>> >> developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and
>> >> intellect.
>> >>
>> >> Sunday.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
>> >> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
>> and
>> >> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
>> space
>> >> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and
>> then
>> >> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
>> >> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those
>> processes
>> >> may not have the desired outcome.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Mike
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >>
>> >> Mark.
>> >>
>> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> >> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> >> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >>
>> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how
>> to
>> >> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks.
>> >>
>> >> Sunday.
>> >>
>> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
>> >> news story.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >>   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
>> >> only
>> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> Vermeulen
>> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >>     Regards,
>> >> rfg
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> --
>> >> --------------------------------------------------
>> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
>> >> Managing Director
>> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
>> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
>> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
>> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------
>> >> _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss
>> mailing
>> >> list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> **********************************************
>> >> IPv4 is over
>> >> Are you ready for the new Internet ?
>> >> http://www.theipv6company.com
>> >> The IPv6 Company
>> >>
>> >> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or
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>> >> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution
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>> >> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including
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>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 13
>> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 10:16:03 +0100
>> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
>> >> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>, General Discussions
>> >>         of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >> Message-ID: <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>> >>
>> >> Dear Mr Guilmette,
>> >>
>> >> Regrettably, I do not monitor the press, but selected channels such as
>> >> this list. It seems I got your attention, or you got my attention, or
>> we
>> >> both got each other's attention. Let us therefore maximize the
>> possession.
>> >>
>> >> Important and interesting questions, that you have raised in this
>> email.
>> >> Let us put some punch in it. Kindly change the TO: field to
>> >> ceo at afrinic.net, and cc the Community just to make sure it is not
>> >> ignored, then resend it. I am sure the CEO will answer all the
>> questions
>> >> you here posed to me. Pity he has to start his tenure with these hard
>> >> nuts and curveballs, but he is capable. He speaks for the Company, not
>> me.
>> >>
>> >> I am equally sure that the Community appreciates the great work done,
>> >> and no one supports the exposed fraud. You are a stakeholder, and not
>> >> some casual bystander so please note this. What you conveniently
>> >> ignored, is that the #1 accused company insider is the eye of the
>> >> company on the policy lists, where you raised the issues.
>> >>
>> >> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should
>> >> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more
>> >> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking
>> stakeholder.
>> >> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.
>> >>
>> >> My use of the term "Whistleblowers" is appropriate, as I looked at one
>> >> of your reference links, and indeed, someone confirmed to you privately
>> >> that your hunch is right. If you do not claim the honour, they should,
>> >> because you rightly built on their work!
>> >>
>> >> Great job you are doing.
>> >>
>> >> Have a great day.
>> >>
>> >> Sunday.
>> >>
>> >> On 05/12/2019 23:44, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >> > In message <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>,
>> >> > Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal
>> >> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get
>> things
>> >> >> done.
>> >> > Mr. Folayan,
>> >> >
>> >> > These matters were first brought to light in the press on September
>> 1,
>> >> > 2019, a full three months ago.  Since that time there has not been a
>> >> > single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting
>> CEO,
>> >> > or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague
>> >> assurances
>> >> > that these matters are being looked into.
>> >> >
>> >> > Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns
>> >> > about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full
>> >> > three years ago.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html
>> >> >
>> >> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html
>> >> >      https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html
>> >> >
>> >> > I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again
>> >> > repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,
>> >> > albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention
>> >> > paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any
>> >> > concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html
>> >> >
>> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html
>> >> >
>> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html
>> >> >
>> >> > At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly
>> >> > in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive
>> >> > issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to
>> >> > entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it
>> >> > were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the
>> >> > courageous reporting of MyBroadband.co.za.  Neither the board nor
>> >> > the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any
>> >> > clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will
>> >> > either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various
>> stakeholders
>> >> > and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive
>> >> > any of the findings that it may reach.  And yet despite having had
>> >> > either three full months or three full years to look into these
>> >> > matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and
>> >> > despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming
>> >> > from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel
>> patience.
>> >> >
>> >> > This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the
>> >> > community's patience to come to an end?  Does the community have any
>> >> > assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another
>> >> > three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield
>> >> > anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the
>> >> > current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of
>> millions
>> >> > of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?
>> >> >
>> >> > On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at
>> >> long
>> >> > last be forthcoming?
>> >> >
>> >> >> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
>> >> >> established, the law should take its course and people should stand
>> >> >> accountable for their deeds.
>> >> > This assertion on your part begs four further questions:
>> >> >
>> >> > 1)  Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been
>> presented
>> >> > in the MyBroadband.co.za article, the majority of which were drawn
>> from
>> >> > publicly available sources including open government records, what
>> more
>> >> > will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and
>> >> intentions
>> >> > are established"?  What parts of the abundant documentary evidence
>> >> already
>> >> > presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?
>> >> >
>> >> > 2)  If, as asserted in the MyBroadband.co.za article, it can be
>> >> persuasively
>> >> > demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in
>> >> fact
>> >> > purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that
>> AFRINIC
>> >> > itself is one of the aggrieved parties?  And if so, would you hope
>> and
>> >> > expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any
>> and
>> >> > all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?
>> >> >
>> >> > 3)  Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and
>> >> endemic
>> >> > within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do
>> >> you
>> >> > have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at
>> all
>> >> > likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?
>> >> >
>> >> > 4)  What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those
>> well-
>> >> > documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks
>> from
>> >> > AFRINIC's own free pool?  Should these blocks be immediately
>> reclaimed
>> >> by
>> >> > AFRINIC?  Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever
>> >> they
>> >> > may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten
>> booty
>> >> > on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?
>> >> >
>> >> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
>> >> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards
>> of 7
>> >> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to
>> >> discover
>> >> >> the manipulations.
>> >> > On this point, you and I are in complete agreement.  "The system",
>> such
>> >> > as it is, is quite self-evidently broken.  But this raises the
>> further
>> >> > question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at
>> >> AFRINIC,
>> >> > while all of this was going on.  Is it even plausible that a single
>> bad
>> >> > actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million
>> dollars
>> >> > worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a
>> >> > several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC
>> >> > staff even noticed any of this?
>> >> >
>> >> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their
>> legal
>> >> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto
>> by
>> >> now.
>> >> > See above.  Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced
>> with
>> >> > respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself.  No other
>> >> > single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much
>> >> > valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself.  And yet we have, as yet, no
>> >> > clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any
>> staff
>> >> > member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let
>> alone
>> >> > that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated
>> >> > by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.
>> >> >
>> >> > If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new
>> dictionary.
>> >> >
>> >> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on
>> behalf
>> >> >> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system
>> here,
>> >> >> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
>> >> >> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
>> >> >> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of
>> >> our
>> >> >> time and intellect.
>> >> > See above.  With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where
>> we
>> >> > may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"?  I
>> >> have
>> >> > so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in
>> any
>> >> > document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member
>> of
>> >> > AFRINIC.  In fact, quite the opposite.  I see that a purported three
>> >> > month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth
>> publicly
>> >> > reporting on so far.  I see an attempt to shift the blame for this
>> >> colossal
>> >> > and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block
>> holders
>> >> > while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of
>> >> > AFRINIC itself.  I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action
>> >> > will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a
>> >> > backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a
>> general
>> >> > disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific
>> >> > national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this
>> case.
>> >> >
>> >> > For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances
>> misplaced,
>> >> > Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.
>> >> > The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign
>> and
>> >> > to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or
>> >> placed
>> >> > under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to
>> >> all.
>> >> > AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding
>> >> responsibility.
>> >> >
>> >> > I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and
>> effectively
>> >> > remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still
>> ongoing
>> >> > after-effects.  I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the
>> now
>> >> > evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the
>> >> carpet
>> >> > will no longer be considered a vialble option.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Regards,
>> >> > rfg
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > P.S.  I must strenuously object to your use of the word
>> "whistleblower"
>> >> in
>> >> > this context Mr. Folayan.  That term is usually used in reference to
>> >> some
>> >> > insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed
>> >> > first-hand some malfeasance.  Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this
>> >> > description.  Rather, we have labored as outsiders only.  We have not
>> >> > been privy to any "inside" information.  Quite the opposite in
>> fact.  We
>> >> > have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable
>> requests
>> >> > for information by AFRINIC staff.
>> >> >
>> >> > Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our
>> >> reasonable
>> >> > requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.
>> >> Exactly
>> >> > such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four
>> other
>> >> > Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists
>> >> upon
>> >> > request.  When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such
>> >> unredacted
>> >> > WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were
>> >> rejected
>> >> > out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved
>> >> policy
>> >> > was cited as the basis for the denial.
>> >> >
>> >> > At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate
>> >> explanation for
>> >> > this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to
>> be
>> >> > granted at long last.  Certain portions of my research cannot be
>> >> completed
>> >> > without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved
>> basis
>> >> for
>> >> > the rejection of such requests.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > P.P.S.  As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of
>> the
>> >> > numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place.  I feel
>> >> > compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively
>> been
>> >> > double-victimized in at least two specific instances.
>> >> >
>> >> > First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large
>> IPv4
>> >> > blocks "liberated" from its free pool.  Secondarily and even more
>> >> insultingly
>> >> > however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also
>> >> arranged
>> >> > to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be
>> >> associated
>> >> > with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all
>> other
>> >> > legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired
>> IPv4
>> >> > allocations.
>> >> >
>> >> > I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy 168.80.0.0/15
>> >> block,
>> >> > registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the
>> >> non-legacy
>> >> > 196.16.0.0/14 block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC
>> organization.
>> >> These
>> >> > blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six
>> >> million
>> >> > U.S. dollars.
>> >> >
>> >> > As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the
>> RPD
>> >> > mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as
>> >> MEMBER-ONLY,
>> >> > as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold
>> any
>> >> > actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees
>> to
>> >> > AFRINIC.
>> >> >
>> >> > I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in
>> this
>> >> > regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it
>> >> does
>> >> > appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have
>> -both-
>> >> > stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for
>> years
>> >> > on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be
>> >> due
>> >> > on these IPv4 assignments.
>> >> >
>> >> > Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further
>> >> clarification
>> >> > with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have
>> been
>> >> > collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned,
>> for
>> >> > any year since their allocation to and association with the
>> >> organizations
>> >> > noted.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> --------------------------------------------------
>> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
>> >> Managing Director
>> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
>> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
>> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
>> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 14
>> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:07:01 -0800
>> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
>> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >> Message-ID: <21084.1575626821 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >>
>> >> Mr. Folayan,
>> >>
>> >> Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful
>> response.
>> >>
>> >> At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and
>> beyond
>> >> what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> In message <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>,
>> >> Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should
>> >> >conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more
>> >> >honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking
>> stakeholder.
>> >> >It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.
>> >>
>> >> Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.
>> >>
>> >> Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to
>> see
>> >> the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC.  That is quite certainly not a
>> >> goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as
>> >> you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder
>> >> should wish for.  AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global
>> >> Internet governance.  I cannot even envision things as being otherwise.
>> >> No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a
>> >> few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second.  And to use an
>> >> even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing
>> >> smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more than
>> >> I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the plains.
>> >>
>> >> If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was being
>> >> formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested
>> >> that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already
>> >> sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it,
>> being
>> >> preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere.  Now I may stand on the comfortable
>> >> shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but
>> >> I do not question the utility of the journey.
>> >>
>> >> The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think, matters
>> >> of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose.  Time will
>> >> tell if that is an accurate assesment.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >> rfg
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 15
>> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:14:31 +0100
>> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
>> >> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>, General
>> >>         Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >> Message-ID: <8d06cf43-7c72-07df-e510-96917cd8e0ed at gmail.com>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>> >>
>> >> Good points Jordi, and thanks for the throwback on the very many
>> amazing
>> >> sacrifices we all made, to grow the Internet in Africa.
>> >>
>> >> I will resist asking Ernest to defend himself here, We are not
>> >> constituted as a competent jury, neither do we want to compromise the
>> >> ongoing investigations.
>> >>
>> >> Questions are appropriate, so will be his own admissions or rebuttals,
>> >> when the investigations are completed.
>> >>
>> >> I may be wrong, but that is my own expectations and position.
>> >>
>> >> Sunday.
>> >>
>> >> On 06/12/2019 10:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Hi Sunday, all,
>> >> >
>> >> > I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article.
>> Let
>> >> > me tell why.
>> >> >
>> >> > I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My
>> >> > first AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and
>> shortly
>> >> > after, during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could
>> >> > contribute to the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and
>> >> > joining Ernest in his trips to do the Registration Services training
>> >> > so I do IPv6 trainings.
>> >> >
>> >> > Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos,
>> >> > I was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the
>> >> > Madrid Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from
>> >> > Sunday, I could resolve that on the next day and flight again to do
>> >> > the training.
>> >> >
>> >> > My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing
>> that,
>> >> > and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been
>> >> > doing those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been
>> >> > able to take advantage of that.
>> >> >
>> >> > The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as
>> >> > well as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much
>> >> > together, you get to know people, and we are talking here about
>> almost
>> >> > 15 years. Of course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have
>> a
>> >> > hidden face. As humans, we all have positive and negative things. But
>> >> > I?m really shocked, I still resist to believe it.
>> >> >
>> >> > I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the
>> >> > position of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think
>> >> > you will use your own name for registering companies, or instead you
>> >> > will bribe someone, may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your
>> >> > family name to appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly
>> >> > and non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t
>> mean
>> >> > he is still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or
>> >> > something similar.
>> >> >
>> >> > Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents.
>> >> > If you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be
>> enough.
>> >> >
>> >> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,
>> >> > and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes
>> and
>> >> > involvement an all this.
>> >> >
>> >> > Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal
>> >> > interest. My only interest is to know the **real true** and I?m sure
>> >> > everybody agrees on that.
>> >> >
>> >> > Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so
>> >> > no doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and
>> very
>> >> > thankful for that.
>> >> >
>> >> > Regards,
>> >> >
>> >> > Jordi
>> >> >
>> >> > @jordipalet
>> >> >
>> >> > El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <sfolayan at gmail.com
>> >> > <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>> escribi?:
>> >> >
>> >> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway
>> >> > suggest that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only
>> >> > on legacy space.
>> >> >
>> >> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal
>> >> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
>> >> > done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
>> >> > established, the law should take its course and people should stand
>> >> > accountable for their deeds.
>> >> >
>> >> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
>> >> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of
>> >> > 7 years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to
>> >> > discover the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or
>> >> > in active use, why would or should they not have been returned to the
>> >> > Registry for the common good?
>> >> >
>> >> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their
>> >> > legal department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with
>> >> > gusto by now.
>> >> >
>> >> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on
>> behalf
>> >> > of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system
>> here,
>> >> > with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
>> >> > rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
>> >> > available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of
>> >> > our time and intellect.
>> >> >
>> >> > Sunday.
>> >> >
>> >> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >     Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there
>> >> >     appears to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy
>> >> >     space.
>> >> >
>> >> >     I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the
>> >> >     problem and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space
>> issue.
>> >> >
>> >> >     It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on
>> how
>> >> >     space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
>> >> >     mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
>> >> >     legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then
>> >> >     moving legacy space under those processes may not have the
>> desired
>> >> >     outcome.
>> >> >
>> >> >     Mike
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >         On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu
>> >> >         <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >         Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >> >
>> >> >         Mark.
>> >> >
>> >> >         On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >             Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues,
>> specifically
>> >> >             ancient squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet
>> >> >             in Africa, AfriNIC Services and bringing legacy spaces
>> >> >             under some form of RSA?
>> >> >
>> >> >             I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and
>> let
>> >> >             us see how to help and empower the people doing useful
>> >> >             work for Africa.
>> >> >
>> >> >             Thanks.
>> >> >
>> >> >             Sunday.
>> >> >
>> >> >             On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >                 I hope you all will take the time to read and think
>> >> >                 about the following
>> >> >                 news story.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >> >
>> >> >                 ? I will have more to say about this in due course.?
>> >> >                 For the moment, I only
>> >> >                 wish to say that the investigation undertaken by
>> >> >                 myself and Jan Vermeulen
>> >> >                 is ongoing, and that many others are provably
>> involved.
>> >> >                 ? ? Regards,
>> >> >                 rfg
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >                 _______________________________________________
>> >> >                 Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> >                 Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> >                 <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> >
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >         _______________________________________________
>> >> >         Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> >         Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> >         <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> >         https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >     _______________________________________________
>> >> >
>> >> >     Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> >
>> >> >     Community-Discuss at afrinic.net  <mailto:
>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> >
>> >> >     https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > --------------------------------------------------
>> >> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan
>> >> > Managing Director
>> >> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
>> >> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
>> >> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
>> >> > Email:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng  <mailto:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng>,
>> >> sfolayan at gmail.com  <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>
>> >> > ---------------------------------------------------
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss
>> >> > mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > **********************************************
>> >> > IPv4 is over
>> >> > Are you ready for the new Internet ?
>> >> > http://www.theipv6company.com
>> >> > The IPv6 Company
>> >> >
>> >> > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged
>> >> > or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive
>> >> > use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty
>> >> > authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents
>> of
>> >> > this information, even if partially, including attached files, is
>> >> > strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you
>> >> > are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying,
>> >> > distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if
>> >> > partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be
>> >> > considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original
>> >> > sender to inform about this communication and delete it.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> --------------------------------------------------
>> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
>> >> Managing Director
>> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
>> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
>> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
>> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> -------------- next part --------------
>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> >> URL: <
>> >>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/8c6c63d5/attachment-0001.html
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 16
>> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 12:17:52 +0200
>> >> From: Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>
>> >> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>
>> >> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >> Message-ID: <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > On 6 Dec 2019, at 11:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss <
>> >> community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,
>> >> and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and
>> >> involvement an all this.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> :-)  Might as well setup a confession booth and provide absolution of
>> >> souls.  On a serious note, we need a proper investigation.  Let?s wait
>> to
>> >> hear from the CEO
>> >>
>> >> Omo
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -------------- next part --------------
>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> >> URL: <
>> >>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/4e0f75fc/attachment-0001.html
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 17
>> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:21:40 +0100
>> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
>> >> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>, General Discussions
>> >>         of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >> Message-ID: <c071ab53-ba47-a98a-8e28-d97187ae8c10 at gmail.com>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>> >>
>> >> Dear Mr Guilmette,
>> >>
>> >> On 06/12/2019 11:07, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >> > Mr. Folayan,
>> >> >
>> >> > Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful
>> >> response.
>> >> >
>> >> > At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and
>> beyond
>> >> > what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > In message <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>,
>> >> > Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we
>> should
>> >> >> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much
>> more
>> >> >> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking
>> >> stakeholder.
>> >> >> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.
>> >> > Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.
>> >> >
>> >> > Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to
>> see
>> >> > the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC.  That is quite certainly not
>> a
>> >> > goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as
>> >> > you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder
>> >> > should wish for.  AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global
>> >> > Internet governance.  I cannot even envision things as being
>> otherwise.
>> >> > No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of
>> a
>> >> > few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second.  And to use an
>> >> > even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing
>> >> > smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more
>> than
>> >> > I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the
>> plains.
>> >> >
>> >> > If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was
>> being
>> >> > formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested
>> >> > that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already
>> >> > sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it,
>> being
>> >> > preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere.  Now I may stand on the comfortable
>> >> > shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel,
>> but
>> >> > I do not question the utility of the journey.
>> >> >
>> >> > The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think,
>> matters
>> >> > of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose.  Time
>> will
>> >> > tell if that is an accurate assesment.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> This is most assuring and comforting at the same time.
>> >>
>> >> If I have sounded off-key, please accept my sincere apologies, and
>> thank
>> >> you very much for the good job you have done for the community so far.
>> >> History will never forget your role and progressive disposition at this
>> >> point in time.
>> >>
>> >> When AfriNIC was being formed, the challenges of today, were not
>> >> envisioned in the very many ways that they now present themselves.
>> >> Africa has come a long way. Unfortunately, there are still many more
>> >> oceans to cross, but we will all band together as a purposeful fleet.
>> >> That is how we can all weather the storms that may come, but sure they
>> >> will come.
>> >>
>> >> With kind Regards ...
>> >>
>> >> Sunday.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 18
>> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:58:27 -0800
>> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
>> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >> Message-ID: <21283.1575629907 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >>
>> >> In message <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es>,
>> >> JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >I also believe that he is a smart guy.
>> >>
>> >> I would not dispute that characterization in the slightest.
>> >>
>> >> >So, put yourself in the position of
>> >> >a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use
>> >> your o
>> >> >wn name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe
>> >> someone,=C2=A0
>> >> > may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to appear
>> in
>> >> an
>> >> >y documents? I feel this is really silly and non-understandable.
>> >>
>> >> And yet it seemed to work, for years on end, with no one raising so
>> much
>> >> as an eyebrow because nobody seriously investigated or seriously looked
>> >> at all of the relevant corporate documents and WHOIS records and, in
>> >> particular, the historical WHOIS records, including but not limited to
>> >> these ones:
>> >>
>> >> ORG-AI2-AFRINIC     https://pastebin.com/raw/7rqfP1LD
>> >> ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC   https://pastebin.com/raw/Nx79QkgB
>> >> ORG-IA41-AFRINIC    https://pastebin.com/raw/ynEXMyCP
>> >> ORG-ZZ139-AFRINIC   https://pastebin.com/raw/GX5egcbW
>> >> ORG-ZZ23-AFRINIC    https://pastebin.com/raw/Yu8K9z6N
>> >>
>> >> I have been chasing down miscreants on the Internet for more than 20
>> years
>> >> now.  One of the lessons I have learned in that time is that none of
>> them
>> >> are ten feet tall, and the majority of them absolutely suck at OPSEC.
>> It
>> >> is almost as if some part of them is deluding their own brains into the
>> >> false belief that what they are doing is not really wrong, in some
>> >> sense, and that they are somehow actually entitled to the stuff they
>> are
>> >> stealing, and that thus, at some level, they don't actually need to
>> hide
>> >> what they are doing all that throughly, because just as White House
>> Chief
>> >> of Staff Mick Mulvaney did not long ago... much to the shock of
>> >> everyone...
>> >> if they are ever caught and confronted they assume that they will just
>> say
>> >> "Yea.  So?  We do that all of the time.  Get over it!"
>> >>
>> >> >So maybe
>> >> >somebody used him, which doesn=E2=80=99t mean he is still guilty
>> >> =E2=80=9Cin
>> >> >vigilando=E2=80=9D because he trusted anyone else, or something
>> similar.
>> >>
>> >> It's a nice thought, and you are a generous person to allow this
>> >> possibility
>> >> Jordi.  All I can say is that other information, not yet made public,
>> >> appears to rule out the possibility that Mr. Byaruhanga was either an
>> >> unwitting stooge or a convenient fall guy.
>> >>
>> >> >Do we believe in =E2=80=9Cpresumption of innocence=E2=80=9D? I do,
>> >> despite
>> >> >documents. If you don=E2=80=99t know the complete background,
>> documents
>> >> may
>> >> >not be enough.
>> >>
>> >> I agree.
>> >>
>> >> That having been said, I hope that you will, as I have, spend some time
>> >> carefully scrutinizing both the current and historical WHOIS records
>> >> associated with the ORGanizations and the IPv4 blocks listed in the two
>> >> tables in Jan's article.  If you do that, I think that you will be, as
>> >> I was, hard pressed to explain all of the quite glaring anomalies in
>> >> any way that does not involve a great deal of very deliberate
>> malfesance
>> >> on somebody's part.  Once you are convinced of that, then the question
>> >> becomes:  Who is responsible?  And it is at that point that the various
>> >> official governmental corporate registration records would seem to
>> become
>> >> very relevant.
>> >>
>> >> >So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,
>> and
>> >> >may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and
>> >> involvement
>> >> >an all this.
>> >>
>> >> I would like to echo that sentiment.
>> >>
>> >> Jan Vermeulen and myself have tried, repeatedly, and over some
>> significant
>> >> time now to reach him, both via voice, at a number of different phone
>> >> numbers
>> >> that we have identified as being associated with him, and also via
>> email,
>> >> at various of his known email addresses, and we have been utterly
>> unable
>> >> to
>> >> do so.  We both very much look forward to speaking with him and getting
>> >> his
>> >> side of the story, if he has one.
>> >>
>> >> That having been said, we cannot be blamed, I think, for reaching
>> certain
>> >> reasonable conclusions when Jan's industry sources informed him, less
>> than
>> >> a day after I had attempted to confront Ernest, via email, with the
>> facts
>> >> arrayed against him, that he had abruptly resigned his position at
>> AFRINIC
>> >> after 15 years on the job.
>> >>
>> >> His abrupt resignation was and remains his only apparent response to
>> our
>> >> inquiries.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >> rfg
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 19
>> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 03:16:57 -0800
>> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
>> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >> Message-ID: <21648.1575631017 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >>
>> >> In message <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net>,
>> >> Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On a serious note, we need a proper investigation.  Let's
>> >> >wait to hear from the CEO
>> >>
>> >> Have any of us been doing otherwise, for lo these past three months
>> now?
>> >>
>> >> Have we been afforded any other choice in the matter?
>> >>
>> >> Can AFRINIC clean its own stables?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >> rfg
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Subject: Digest Footer
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> End of Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1
>> >> *************************************************
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > *Ogundele Olumuyiwa Caleb*
>> > *muyiwacaleb at gmail.com <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>*
>> > *234 - 8077377378*
>> > *234 - 07030777969*
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191210/5dbbab9c/attachment-0001.html
>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:56:27 +0000
>> From: Arnaud AMELINA <amelnaud at gmail.com>
>> To: Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com>
>> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>,
>>         Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547,
>>         Issue 1
>> Message-ID:
>>         <CAGDMR_cw7qBFFC=jd60noD=
>> DPAgiPwY1ozQCaG77Ax29ELZikA at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Hi Community,
>>
>> Policy or not, will not prevent AFRINIC  from reviewing resources if
>> complaints  provide enough evidences.  We  just saw allegations/complaints
>> in press which trigger reviews.
>> The review policy proposal is intended to provide community approved ways
>> of reviews  for fairness, transparency. Lack of community approved review
>> policy may have led to media complaint induced review.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> --
>> Arnaud
>>
>> Le dim. 8 d?c. 2019 ? 18:50, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com> a ?crit :
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > policy or not will not prevent afrinic  from reviewing resources if
>> > complaints  provide enough evidences.  We  just saw
>> allegations/complaints
>> > in press which trigger reviews.
>> >
>> > The review policy proposal is intended to provide community approved
>> ways
>> > of reviews  for fairness, transparency. Lack of community approved
>> review
>> > policy may have led to media complaint induced reviewOn Dec 6, 2019, at
>> > 07:46 , Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Dear Ronald,
>> >
>> > So I read where this comment below was attributed to you.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > *>?Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our
>> > reasonable> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS
>> > database.  Exactly> such unredacted database dumps *are* provided by
>> all of
>> > the four other> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers
>> and
>> > journalists upon> request.  When we submitted repeated requests for
>> exactly
>> > such unredacted> WHOIS database dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our
>> > requests were rejected> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any
>> > community-approved policy> was cited as the basis for the denial.?*
>> > While not taking brief for AFRINIC or any of its staff, I feel you
>> should
>> > know that AFRINIC?s operation is also being governed by Mauritius data
>> > protection law.
>> > Mauritius regulates data protection under the Data Protection Act 2017
>> > (DPA 2017 or Act), proclaimed through Proclamation No. 3 of 2018,
>> effective
>> > January 15, 2018. The Act repeals and replaces the Data Protection Act
>> > 2004, so as to align with the European Union General Data Protection
>> > Regulation 2016/679 (GDPR).
>> >
>> > Even if you are not familiar with Mauritius law, the EU GDPR which is
>> more
>> > popular should tell you the implication of revealing a WHOIS database
>> to a
>> > non-state prosecutorial actor like yourself who does not have a court
>> > warrant to see the redacted sections you seek. Please correct me if I?m
>> > wrong in my legal analysis of your request.
>> >
>> >
>> > Whois is data that is published generally, so your comments here about
>> DPR
>> > don?t really apply.
>> >
>> > Such WHOIS dumps are available from RIPE, so I don?t think it is a GDPR
>> > issue at all.
>> >
>> > Perhaps, isn?t it time for the community to revisit the Internet Number
>> > Resources review policy
>> > <https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal> which was not
>> > on the docket for policy at this just-concluded meeting?
>> > https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal
>> >
>> >
>> > No? The resource review policy would do absolutely nothing to help here.
>> >
>> > We might be doing something right this time if that policy will allow
>> for
>> > a diligent review of resources including the legacy ones.
>> >
>> >
>> > That policy does not provide for any review that AfriNIC cannot
>> currently
>> > do. All it does is provide a vector for a unique form of Denial Of
>> Service
>> > attack against larger organizations in the form of a complaint-induced
>> > resource review.
>> >
>> > Let us please not conflate this issue with an utterly and completely
>> > unrelated policy effort aimed at weaponizing AfriNIC to allow one
>> subset of
>> > the membership to attack another.
>> >
>> > Owen
>> >
>> >
>> > Regards
>> >
>> > Caleb Ogundele
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 12:17 PM <community-discuss-request at afrinic.net>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to
>> >>         community-discuss at afrinic.net
>> >>
>> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> >>         https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> >>         community-discuss-request at afrinic.net
>> >>
>> >> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> >>         community-discuss-owner at afrinic.net
>> >>
>> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> >> than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..."
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Today's Topics:
>> >>
>> >>    1. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)
>> >>    2. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mike Silber)
>> >>    3. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Elkins)
>> >>    4. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Andrew Alston)
>> >>    5. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)
>> >>    6. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
>> >>    7. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)
>> >>    8. [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC (Sylvain Baya)
>> >>    9. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Isabel Odida)
>> >>   10. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
>> >>   11. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
>> >>   12. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)
>> >>   13. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
>> >>   14. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
>> >>   15. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
>> >>   16. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)
>> >>   17. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
>> >>   18. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
>> >>   19. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 1
>> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:27:42 +0200
>> >> From: Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu>
>> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >> Message-ID: <9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16 at seacom.mu>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> >>
>> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >>
>> >> Mark.
>> >>
>> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> >> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> >> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >> >
>> >> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how
>> >> > to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks.
>> >> >
>> >> > Sunday.
>> >> >
>> >> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
>> following
>> >> >> news story.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the moment,
>> >> >> I only
>> >> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> >> >> Vermeulen
>> >> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >> >> ? ? Regards,
>> >> >> rfg
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> >>
>> >>
>> >> -------------- next part --------------
>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> >> URL: <
>> >>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/7f6aa1b8/attachment-0001.html
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 2
>> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:46:15 +0200
>> >> From: Mike Silber <silber.mike at gmail.com>
>> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >> Message-ID: <2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3 at gmail.com>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >>
>> >> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
>> >> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>> >>
>> >> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
>> and
>> >> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>> >>
>> >> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
>> space
>> >> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and
>> then
>> >> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
>> >> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those
>> processes
>> >> may not have the desired outcome.
>> >>
>> >> Mike
>> >>
>> >> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >> >
>> >> > Mark.
>> >> >
>> >> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> >> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> >> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see
>> how
>> >> to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Thanks.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Sunday.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >> >>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
>> >> following
>> >> >>> news story.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >> <
>> >>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >
>> >>
>> >> >>>   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the
>> moment,
>> >> I only
>> >> >>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> >> Vermeulen
>> >> >>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >> >>>     Regards,
>> >> >>> rfg
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >>
>> >> -------------- next part --------------
>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> >> URL: <
>> >>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/1d4a9dec/attachment-0001.html
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 3
>> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:59:57 +0200
>> >> From: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za>
>> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >> Message-ID: <007bb014-4eb8-157f-5312-f8333782f32f at posix.co.za>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>> >>
>> >> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to
>> >> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case
>> (looting
>> >> of non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.
>> >>
>> >> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
>> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
>> >> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>> >> >
>> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
>> >> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>> >> >
>> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
>> >> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
>> >> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
>> >> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving
>> >> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.
>> >> >
>> >> > Mike
>> >> >
>> >> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu
>> >> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Mark.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> >> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa,
>> AfriNIC
>> >> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see
>> >> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Thanks.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Sunday.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
>> >> >>>> following
>> >> >>>> news story.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the
>> >> >>>> moment, I only
>> >> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> >> >>>> Vermeulen
>> >> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >> >>>> ? ? Regards,
>> >> >>>> rfg
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >
>> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >> Mark James ELKINS? -? Posix Systems - (South) Africa
>> >> mje at posix.co.za???? <http://mje at posix.co.za/????>?? Tel:
>> +27.826010496 <
>> >> tel:+27826010496 <+27826010496>>
>> >> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
>> >>
>> >> Posix SystemsVCARD for MJ Elkins
>> >>
>> >> -------------- next part --------------
>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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>> >>
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>> >> >
>> >> -------------- next part --------------
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>> >> Type: image/jpeg
>> >> Size: 6410 bytes
>> >> Desc: not available
>> >> URL: <
>> >>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/3b4bf35e/attachment-0001.jpg
>> >> >
>> >> -------------- next part --------------
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>> >>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/3b4bf35e/attachment-0001.png
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 4
>> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:10:48 +0000
>> >> From: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
>> >> To: "mje at posix.co.za" <mje at posix.co.za>,
>> >>         "community-discuss at afrinic.net" <community-discuss at afrinic.net
>> >
>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >> Message-ID:
>> >>         <
>> >>
>> DBBPR03MB5415D6F757C9E3BD1AE2CDE4EE5C0 at DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>> >>
>> >> I would be very curious to hear from a legal perspective what - if any
>> -
>> >> legal liability AfriNIC has in a situation like this.
>> >>
>> >> The fact is - space has value - and if space is stolen - used for spam
>> or
>> >> whatever else - and the reputation of said space is damaged - it?s
>> value
>> >> decreases.  Now I fully realize that space can be hijacked - and at
>> that
>> >> point potentially the hijackers may hold the liability. However - when
>> the
>> >> space seems to have been stolen and sold off by a staff member of the
>> >> organization that is meant in effect to the curator of the space - I
>> >> question if there is not a liability issue at play if it can be proven
>> that
>> >> due care was not taken to safe guard against the actions taken.
>> >>
>> >> I?m no lawyer though so I would really be interested to know the legal
>> >> perspective - can an rir be held liable to the actions of its staff if
>> it
>> >> did not adequately protect against the actions taken.
>> >>
>> >> Andrew
>> >>
>> >> Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
>> >> ________________________________
>> >> From: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za>
>> >> Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 3:59:57 PM
>> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to
>> >> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case
>> (looting of
>> >> non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.
>> >>
>> >> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
>> >> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
>> >> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>> >>
>> >> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
>> and
>> >> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>> >>
>> >> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
>> space
>> >> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and
>> then
>> >> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
>> >> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those
>> processes
>> >> may not have the desired outcome.
>> >>
>> >> Mike
>> >>
>> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu<mailto:
>> >> mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >>
>> >> Mark.
>> >>
>> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> >> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> >> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >>
>> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how
>> to
>> >> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks.
>> >>
>> >> Sunday.
>> >>
>> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
>> >> news story.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >> <
>> >>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >> >
>> >>   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
>> >> only
>> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> Vermeulen
>> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >>     Regards,
>> >> rfg
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >> Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
>> >> mje at posix.co.za<mailto:mje at posix.co.za>       Tel: +27.826010496<
>> >> tel:+27826010496 <+27826010496>>
>> >> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za<
>> >> https://ftth.posix.co.za>
>> >>
>> >> [Posix            Systems][VCARD for            MJ Elkins]
>> >> -------------- next part --------------
>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> >> URL: <
>> >>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/24fff2bc/attachment-0001.html
>> >> >
>> >> -------------- next part --------------
>> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>> >> Name: abessive_logo.jpg
>> >> Type: image/jpeg
>> >> Size: 6410 bytes
>> >> Desc: abessive_logo.jpg
>> >> URL: <
>> >>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/24fff2bc/attachment-0001.jpg
>> >> >
>> >> -------------- next part --------------
>> >> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
>> >> Name: QR-MJElkins.png
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>> >> Size: 2163 bytes
>> >> Desc: QR-MJElkins.png
>> >> URL: <
>> >>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/24fff2bc/attachment-0001.png
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 5
>> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 15:11:04 +0200
>> >> From: Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu>
>> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >> Message-ID: <7fa06e69-5728-f936-ce1d-f471893ccc17 at seacom.mu>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> >>
>> >> I don't disagree with that either.
>> >>
>> >> I am certain AFRINIC are working on this, and I know there will be no
>> >> shortage of queries about this from the field, much to our
>> >> already-clogged e-mail boxes. I don't want to do the jobs of others; no
>> >> one is doing mine for me.
>> >>
>> >> My preferred current focus - your last paragraph, below.
>> >>
>> >> Mark.
>> >>
>> >> On 5/Dec/19 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
>> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
>> >> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>> >> >
>> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
>> >> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>> >> >
>> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
>> >> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
>> >> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
>> >> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving
>> >> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.?
>> >> >
>> >> > Mike
>> >> >
>> >> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu
>> >> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Mark.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> >> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa,
>> AfriNIC
>> >> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see
>> >> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Thanks.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Sunday.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
>> >> >>>> following
>> >> >>>> news story.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the
>> >> >>>> moment, I only
>> >> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> >> >>>> Vermeulen
>> >> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >> >>>> ? ? Regards,
>> >> >>>> rfg
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >
>> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> -------------- next part --------------
>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> >> URL: <
>> >>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/c8c491fa/attachment-0001.html
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 6
>> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 19:54:21 +0100
>> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
>> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >> Message-ID: <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"
>> >>
>> >> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway
>> suggest
>> >> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy
>> >> space.
>> >>
>> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal
>> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
>> >> done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
>> >> established, the law should take its course and people should stand
>> >> accountable for their deeds.
>> >>
>> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
>> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
>> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to
>> discover
>> >> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active
>> >> use, why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry
>> for
>> >> the common good?
>> >>
>> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
>> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by
>> now.
>> >>
>> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
>> >> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
>> >> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
>> >> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
>> >> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of
>> our
>> >> time and intellect.
>> >>
>> >> Sunday.
>> >>
>> >> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
>> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
>> >> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>> >> >
>> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
>> >> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>> >> >
>> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
>> >> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
>> >> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
>> >> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving
>> >> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.
>> >> >
>> >> > Mike
>> >> >
>> >> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu
>> >> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Mark.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> >> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa,
>> AfriNIC
>> >> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see
>> >> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Thanks.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Sunday.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
>> >> >>>> following
>> >> >>>> news story.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the
>> >> >>>> moment, I only
>> >> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> >> >>>> Vermeulen
>> >> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >> >>>> ? ? Regards,
>> >> >>>> rfg
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >
>> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> --------------------------------------------------
>> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
>> >> Managing Director
>> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
>> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
>> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
>> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> -------------- next part --------------
>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> >> URL: <
>> >>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/118317f5/attachment-0001.html
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 7
>> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:15:59 +0200
>> >> From: Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>
>> >> To: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
>> >> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >> Message-ID:
>> >>         <CAG1eoi3w-F2Ui-BfiKmBqYJ=
>> >> srHdvBJx2F5vS2k__asGCVTwVw at mail.gmail.com>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> >>
>> >> I have to agree with this. As shocking and disappointing as the
>> >> revelations
>> >> might be, this makes the most sense to me.
>> >>
>> >> Omo
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, 5 Dec 2019, 20:56 Sunday Folayan, <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway
>> suggest
>> >> > that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on
>> legacy
>> >> > space.
>> >> >
>> >> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal
>> >> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
>> >> done.
>> >> > I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
>> >> established,
>> >> > the law should take its course and people should stand accountable
>> for
>> >> > their deeds.
>> >> >
>> >> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
>> >> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards
>> of 7
>> >> > years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to
>> discover
>> >> > the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in
>> active
>> >> use,
>> >> > why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for
>> the
>> >> > common good?
>> >> >
>> >> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their
>> legal
>> >> > department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by
>> >> now.
>> >> >
>> >> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on
>> behalf
>> >> of
>> >> > the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
>> with
>> >> > the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
>> rather
>> >> > apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available
>> for
>> >> > developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and
>> >> > intellect.
>> >> > Sunday.
>> >> >
>> >> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
>> to
>> >> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>> >> >
>> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
>> >> and
>> >> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>> >> >
>> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
>> space
>> >> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated
>> and
>> >> then
>> >> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
>> >> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those
>> >> processes
>> >> > may not have the desired outcome.
>> >> >
>> >> > Mike
>> >> >
>> >> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >> >
>> >> > Mark.
>> >> >
>> >> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> >> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> >> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >> >
>> >> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see
>> how to
>> >> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks.
>> >> >
>> >> > Sunday.
>> >> >
>> >> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
>> following
>> >> > news story.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >> >   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment,
>> I
>> >> > only
>> >> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> >> Vermeulen
>> >> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >> >     Regards,
>> >> > rfg
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://
>> >> lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > --------------------------------------------------
>> >> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan
>> >> > Managing Director
>> >> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
>> >> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
>> >> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
>> >> > Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
>> >> > ---------------------------------------------------
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> >
>> >> -------------- next part --------------
>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> >> URL: <
>> >>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/582fac38/attachment-0001.html
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 8
>> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:28:06 +0100
>> >> From: Sylvain Baya <abscoco at gmail.com>
>> >> To: "mje at posix.co.za" <mje at posix.co.za>,
>> >>         "community-discuss at afrinic.net" <community-discuss at afrinic.net
>> >
>> >> Subject: [Community-Discuss] [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >> Message-ID:
>> >>         <
>> >> CAJjTEvE+sHgdAsJUO4D1pYe1eEwCk6WEMosvhknZqS+AwyF6Kg at mail.gmail.com>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> >>
>> >> Hi all,
>> >>
>> >> Le jeudi 5 d?cembre 2019, Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za> a ?crit :
>> >>
>> >> > Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to
>> >> > manipulate the non-legacy space -
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Dear Mark,
>> >> ...i agree !
>> >>
>> >> yet it happened. In this case (looting of non-legacy space), the RSA
>> has
>> >> > meant nothing.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> As you say, i take you on words ; then if the RSA (Registration Service
>> >> Agreement) could
>> >> easily be bypassed, how to deal with our 'emerged' problem ?
>> >>
>> >> ...perhaps time to seriously reconsider the long life DPP (Draft Policy
>> >> Proposal) [1] ?
>> >> __
>> >> [1]: <https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2016-gen-001-d8/amp>
>> >>
>> >> Shalom,
>> >> --sb.
>> >>
>> >> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
>> to
>> >> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>> >> >
>> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
>> >> and
>> >> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>> >> >
>> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
>> space
>> >> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated
>> and
>> >> then
>> >> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
>> >> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those
>> >> processes
>> >> > may not have the desired outcome.
>> >> >
>> >> > Mike
>> >> >
>> >> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >> >
>> >> > Mark.
>> >> >
>> >> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> >> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> >> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >> >
>> >> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see
>> how to
>> >> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks.
>> >> >
>> >> > Sunday.
>> >> >
>> >> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
>> following
>> >> > news story.
>> >> >
>> >> > https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-
>> >> >
>> >>
>> resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >> >   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment,
>> I
>> >> > only
>> >> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> >> Vermeulen
>> >> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >> >     Regards,
>> >> > rfg
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://
>> >> lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> >
>> >> > Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
>> >> > mje at posix.co.za       Tel: +27.826010496 <+27826010496>
>> >> > For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA:
>> https://ftth.posix.co.za
>> >> >
>> >> > [image: Posix Systems][image: VCARD for MJ Elkins]
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Best Regards !
>> >> baya.sylvain [AT cmNOG DOT cm] | <https://www.cmnog.cm> | <
>> >> https://survey.cmnog.cm>
>> >> Subscribe to Mailing List : <
>> >> https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/>
>> >> __
>> >> #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|?#?Romains15?:33?*Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit
>> avec
>> >> vous tous! ?#?Amen?!*?
>> >> ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement?
>> >> ?*Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me
>> soupire
>> >> apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!*? (#Psaumes42:2)
>> >> -------------- next part --------------
>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> >> URL: <
>> >>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/63b5ef24/attachment-0001.html
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 9
>> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 23:43:48 +0100
>> >> From: Isabel Odida <isabel.odida at gmail.com>
>> >> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
>> >> Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >> Message-ID: <6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii
>> >>
>> >> I know what sparked this story. Some people have no chill. How
>> convenient
>> >> following the last meeting in June. Ok, and then what? What have you
>> >> benefited?
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my iPhone
>> >>
>> >> > On 4 Dec 2019, at 18:23, Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
>> following
>> >> > news story.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >> >
>> >> > I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
>> >> only
>> >> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> >> Vermeulen
>> >> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Regards,
>> >> > rfg
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 10
>> >> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 14:44:58 -0800
>> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
>> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >> Message-ID: <18818.1575585898 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >>
>> >> In message <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>,
>> >> Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >The community has been informed that there is already some internal
>> >> >investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
>> >> >done.
>> >>
>> >> Mr. Folayan,
>> >>
>> >> These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,
>> >> 2019, a full three months ago.  Since that time there has not been a
>> >> single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,
>> >> or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague
>> assurances
>> >> that these matters are being looked into.
>> >>
>> >> Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns
>> >> about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full
>> >> three years ago.
>> >>
>> >>
>> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html
>> >>
>> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html
>> >>     https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html
>> >>
>> >> I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again
>> >> repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,
>> >> albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention
>> >> paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any
>> >> concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.
>> >>
>> >>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html
>> >>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html
>> >>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html
>> >>
>> >> At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly
>> >> in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive
>> >> issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to
>> >> entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it
>> >> were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the
>> >> courageous reporting of MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/>.
>> >> Neither the board nor
>> >> the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any
>> >> clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will
>> >> either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders
>> >> and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive
>> >> any of the findings that it may reach.  And yet despite having had
>> >> either three full months or three full years to look into these
>> >> matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and
>> >> despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming
>> >> from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel patience.
>> >>
>> >> This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the
>> >> community's patience to come to an end?  Does the community have any
>> >> assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another
>> >> three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield
>> >> anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the
>> >> current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions
>> >> of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?
>> >>
>> >> On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at
>> long
>> >> last be forthcoming?
>> >>
>> >> >I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
>> >> >established, the law should take its course and people should stand
>> >> >accountable for their deeds.
>> >>
>> >> This assertion on your part begs four further questions:
>> >>
>> >> 1)  Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been
>> presented
>> >> in the MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/> article, the
>> >> majority of which were drawn from
>> >> publicly available sources including open government records, what more
>> >> will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and
>> intentions
>> >> are established"?  What parts of the abundant documentary evidence
>> already
>> >> presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?
>> >>
>> >> 2)  If, as asserted in the MyBroadband.co.za <
>> http://mybroadband.co.za/>
>> >> article, it can be persuasively
>> >> demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in
>> fact
>> >> purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that AFRINIC
>> >> itself is one of the aggrieved parties?  And if so, would you hope and
>> >> expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and
>> >> all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?
>> >>
>> >> 3)  Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and
>> >> endemic
>> >> within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do
>> you
>> >> have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all
>> >> likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?
>> >>
>> >> 4)  What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-
>> >> documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks
>> from
>> >> AFRINIC's own free pool?  Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed
>> by
>> >> AFRINIC?  Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever
>> they
>> >> may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten booty
>> >> on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?
>> >>
>> >> >I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
>> >> >organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of
>> 7
>> >> >years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to
>> discover
>> >> >the manipulations.
>> >>
>> >> On this point, you and I are in complete agreement.  "The system", such
>> >> as it is, is quite self-evidently broken.  But this raises the further
>> >> question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at
>> >> AFRINIC,
>> >> while all of this was going on.  Is it even plausible that a single bad
>> >> actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars
>> >> worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a
>> >> several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC
>> >> staff even noticed any of this?
>> >>
>> >> >For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their
>> legal
>> >> >department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by
>> >> now.
>> >>
>> >> See above.  Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced with
>> >> respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself.  No other
>> >> single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much
>> >> valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself.  And yet we have, as yet, no
>> >> clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any staff
>> >> member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone
>> >> that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated
>> >> by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.
>> >>
>> >> If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new
>> dictionary.
>> >>
>> >> >While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
>> >> >of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
>> >> >with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
>> >> >rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
>> >> >available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of
>> our
>> >> >time and intellect.
>> >>
>> >> See above.  With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we
>> >> may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"?  I
>> have
>> >> so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any
>> >> document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member of
>> >> AFRINIC.  In fact, quite the opposite.  I see that a purported three
>> >> month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth
>> publicly
>> >> reporting on so far.  I see an attempt to shift the blame for this
>> >> colossal
>> >> and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders
>> >> while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of
>> >> AFRINIC itself.  I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action
>> >> will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a
>> >> backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a general
>> >> disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific
>> >> national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.
>> >>
>> >> For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances misplaced,
>> >> Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.
>> >> The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and
>> >> to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or
>> >> placed
>> >> under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to
>> all.
>> >> AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding
>> >> responsibility.
>> >>
>> >> I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and effectively
>> >> remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still ongoing
>> >> after-effects.  I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now
>> >> evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the
>> carpet
>> >> will no longer be considered a vialble option.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >> rfg
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> P.S.  I must strenuously object to your use of the word
>> "whistleblower" in
>> >> this context Mr. Folayan.  That term is usually used in reference to
>> some
>> >> insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed
>> >> first-hand some malfeasance.  Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this
>> >> description.  Rather, we have labored as outsiders only.  We have not
>> >> been privy to any "inside" information.  Quite the opposite in fact.
>> We
>> >> have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable requests
>> >> for information by AFRINIC staff.
>> >>
>> >> Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our
>> >> reasonable
>> >> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.
>> >> Exactly
>> >> such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four other
>> >> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists
>> upon
>> >> request.  When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such
>> unredacted
>> >> WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were
>> rejected
>> >> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved
>> policy
>> >> was cited as the basis for the denial.
>> >>
>> >> At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate
>> explanation
>> >> for
>> >> this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to be
>> >> granted at long last.  Certain portions of my research cannot be
>> completed
>> >> without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved basis
>> >> for
>> >> the rejection of such requests.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> P.P.S.  As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the
>> >> numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place.  I feel
>> >> compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively been
>> >> double-victimized in at least two specific instances.
>> >>
>> >> First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large
>> IPv4
>> >> blocks "liberated" from its free pool.  Secondarily and even more
>> >> insultingly
>> >> however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also
>> >> arranged
>> >> to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be
>> associated
>> >> with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other
>> >> legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired
>> IPv4
>> >> allocations.
>> >>
>> >> I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy 168.80.0.0/15
>> block,
>> >> registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the
>> >> non-legacy
>> >> 196.16.0.0/14 block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization.
>> >> These
>> >> blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six
>> million
>> >> U.S. dollars.
>> >>
>> >> As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD
>> >> mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as
>> MEMBER-ONLY,
>> >> as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold any
>> >> actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees to
>> >> AFRINIC.
>> >>
>> >> I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in this
>> >> regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it
>> does
>> >> appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have
>> -both-
>> >> stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for years
>> >> on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be
>> due
>> >> on these IPv4 assignments.
>> >>
>> >> Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further
>> >> clarification
>> >> with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have been
>> >> collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned,
>> for
>> >> any year since their allocation to and association with the
>> organizations
>> >> noted.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 11
>> >> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 17:24:26 -0800
>> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
>> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >> Message-ID: <19435.1575595466 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >>
>> >> In message <6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com>,
>> >> Isabel Odida <isabel.odida at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >I know what sparked this story.
>> >>
>> >> If you have something to say, then you have our attention and the
>> floor.
>> >> Please proceed.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >> rfg
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 12
>> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 10:04:06 +0100
>> >> From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>
>> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >> Message-ID: <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> >>
>> >> Hi Sunday, all,
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let
>> me
>> >> tell why.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My
>> first
>> >> AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly after,
>> >> during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could contribute
>> to
>> >> the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and joining Ernest
>> in his
>> >> trips to do the Registration Services training so I do IPv6 trainings.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos, I
>> >> was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the Madrid
>> >> Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from Sunday, I
>> could
>> >> resolve that on the next day and flight again to do the training.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that,
>> >> and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been
>> doing
>> >> those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been able to
>> take
>> >> advantage of that.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as
>> well
>> >> as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much
>> together,
>> >> you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost 15 years.
>> Of
>> >> course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a hidden face.
>> As
>> >> humans, we all have positive and negative things. But I?m really
>> shocked, I
>> >> still resist to believe it.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the position
>> >> of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use
>> >> your own name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe
>> >> someone,? may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to
>> >> appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly and
>> >> non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean he
>> is
>> >> still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or
>> something
>> >> similar.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents.
>> If
>> >> you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be enough.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,
>> and
>> >> may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and
>> >> involvement an all this.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal interest.
>> >> My only interest is to know the *real true* and I?m sure everybody
>> agrees
>> >> on that.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so
>> no
>> >> doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very
>> >> thankful for that.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >>
>> >> Jordi
>> >>
>> >> @jordipalet
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <sfolayan at gmail.com> escribi?:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway
>> suggest
>> >> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy
>> >> space.
>> >>
>> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal
>> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
>> done.
>> >> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
>> established,
>> >> the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for
>> >> their deeds.
>> >>
>> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
>> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
>> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to
>> discover
>> >> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active
>> use,
>> >> why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for the
>> >> common good?
>> >>
>> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
>> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by
>> now.
>> >>
>> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
>> of
>> >> the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
>> with
>> >> the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather
>> >> apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for
>> >> developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and
>> >> intellect.
>> >>
>> >> Sunday.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
>> >> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
>> and
>> >> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
>> space
>> >> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and
>> then
>> >> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
>> >> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those
>> processes
>> >> may not have the desired outcome.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Mike
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >>
>> >> Mark.
>> >>
>> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
>> >> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
>> >> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
>> >>
>> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how
>> to
>> >> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks.
>> >>
>> >> Sunday.
>> >>
>> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
>> >> news story.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >>   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
>> >> only
>> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
>> Vermeulen
>> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
>> >>     Regards,
>> >> rfg
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> --
>> >> --------------------------------------------------
>> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
>> >> Managing Director
>> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
>> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
>> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
>> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------
>> >> _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss
>> mailing
>> >> list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> **********************************************
>> >> IPv4 is over
>> >> Are you ready for the new Internet ?
>> >> http://www.theipv6company.com
>> >> The IPv6 Company
>> >>
>> >> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or
>> >> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use
>> of
>> >> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized
>> >> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
>> >> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly
>> >> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not
>> the
>> >> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution
>> or
>> >> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including
>> >> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal
>> >> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this
>> >> communication and delete it.
>> >>
>> >> -------------- next part --------------
>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> >> URL: <
>> >>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/e007b6dd/attachment-0001.html
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 13
>> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 10:16:03 +0100
>> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
>> >> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>, General Discussions
>> >>         of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >> Message-ID: <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>> >>
>> >> Dear Mr Guilmette,
>> >>
>> >> Regrettably, I do not monitor the press, but selected channels such as
>> >> this list. It seems I got your attention, or you got my attention, or
>> we
>> >> both got each other's attention. Let us therefore maximize the
>> possession.
>> >>
>> >> Important and interesting questions, that you have raised in this
>> email.
>> >> Let us put some punch in it. Kindly change the TO: field to
>> >> ceo at afrinic.net, and cc the Community just to make sure it is not
>> >> ignored, then resend it. I am sure the CEO will answer all the
>> questions
>> >> you here posed to me. Pity he has to start his tenure with these hard
>> >> nuts and curveballs, but he is capable. He speaks for the Company, not
>> me.
>> >>
>> >> I am equally sure that the Community appreciates the great work done,
>> >> and no one supports the exposed fraud. You are a stakeholder, and not
>> >> some casual bystander so please note this. What you conveniently
>> >> ignored, is that the #1 accused company insider is the eye of the
>> >> company on the policy lists, where you raised the issues.
>> >>
>> >> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should
>> >> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more
>> >> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking
>> stakeholder.
>> >> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.
>> >>
>> >> My use of the term "Whistleblowers" is appropriate, as I looked at one
>> >> of your reference links, and indeed, someone confirmed to you privately
>> >> that your hunch is right. If you do not claim the honour, they should,
>> >> because you rightly built on their work!
>> >>
>> >> Great job you are doing.
>> >>
>> >> Have a great day.
>> >>
>> >> Sunday.
>> >>
>> >> On 05/12/2019 23:44, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >> > In message <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>,
>> >> > Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal
>> >> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get
>> things
>> >> >> done.
>> >> > Mr. Folayan,
>> >> >
>> >> > These matters were first brought to light in the press on September
>> 1,
>> >> > 2019, a full three months ago.  Since that time there has not been a
>> >> > single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting
>> CEO,
>> >> > or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague
>> >> assurances
>> >> > that these matters are being looked into.
>> >> >
>> >> > Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns
>> >> > about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full
>> >> > three years ago.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html
>> >> >
>> >> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html
>> >> >      https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html
>> >> >
>> >> > I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again
>> >> > repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,
>> >> > albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention
>> >> > paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any
>> >> > concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html
>> >> >
>> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html
>> >> >
>> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html
>> >> >
>> >> > At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly
>> >> > in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive
>> >> > issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to
>> >> > entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it
>> >> > were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the
>> >> > courageous reporting of MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/
>> >.
>> >> Neither the board nor
>> >> > the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any
>> >> > clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will
>> >> > either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various
>> stakeholders
>> >> > and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive
>> >> > any of the findings that it may reach.  And yet despite having had
>> >> > either three full months or three full years to look into these
>> >> > matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and
>> >> > despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming
>> >> > from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel
>> patience.
>> >> >
>> >> > This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the
>> >> > community's patience to come to an end?  Does the community have any
>> >> > assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another
>> >> > three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield
>> >> > anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the
>> >> > current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of
>> millions
>> >> > of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?
>> >> >
>> >> > On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at
>> >> long
>> >> > last be forthcoming?
>> >> >
>> >> >> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
>> >> >> established, the law should take its course and people should stand
>> >> >> accountable for their deeds.
>> >> > This assertion on your part begs four further questions:
>> >> >
>> >> > 1)  Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been
>> presented
>> >> > in the MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/> article, the
>> >> majority of which were drawn from
>> >> > publicly available sources including open government records, what
>> more
>> >> > will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and
>> >> intentions
>> >> > are established"?  What parts of the abundant documentary evidence
>> >> already
>> >> > presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?
>> >> >
>> >> > 2)  If, as asserted in the MyBroadband.co.za
>> >> <http://mybroadband.co.za/> article, it can be persuasively
>> >> > demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in
>> >> fact
>> >> > purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that
>> AFRINIC
>> >> > itself is one of the aggrieved parties?  And if so, would you hope
>> and
>> >> > expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any
>> and
>> >> > all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?
>> >> >
>> >> > 3)  Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and
>> >> endemic
>> >> > within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do
>> >> you
>> >> > have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at
>> all
>> >> > likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?
>> >> >
>> >> > 4)  What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those
>> well-
>> >> > documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks
>> from
>> >> > AFRINIC's own free pool?  Should these blocks be immediately
>> reclaimed
>> >> by
>> >> > AFRINIC?  Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever
>> >> they
>> >> > may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten
>> booty
>> >> > on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?
>> >> >
>> >> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
>> >> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards
>> of 7
>> >> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to
>> >> discover
>> >> >> the manipulations.
>> >> > On this point, you and I are in complete agreement.  "The system",
>> such
>> >> > as it is, is quite self-evidently broken.  But this raises the
>> further
>> >> > question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at
>> >> AFRINIC,
>> >> > while all of this was going on.  Is it even plausible that a single
>> bad
>> >> > actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million
>> dollars
>> >> > worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a
>> >> > several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC
>> >> > staff even noticed any of this?
>> >> >
>> >> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their
>> legal
>> >> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto
>> by
>> >> now.
>> >> > See above.  Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced
>> with
>> >> > respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself.  No other
>> >> > single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much
>> >> > valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself.  And yet we have, as yet, no
>> >> > clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any
>> staff
>> >> > member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let
>> alone
>> >> > that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated
>> >> > by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.
>> >> >
>> >> > If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new
>> dictionary.
>> >> >
>> >> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on
>> behalf
>> >> >> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system
>> here,
>> >> >> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
>> >> >> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
>> >> >> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of
>> >> our
>> >> >> time and intellect.
>> >> > See above.  With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where
>> we
>> >> > may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"?  I
>> >> have
>> >> > so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in
>> any
>> >> > document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member
>> of
>> >> > AFRINIC.  In fact, quite the opposite.  I see that a purported three
>> >> > month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth
>> publicly
>> >> > reporting on so far.  I see an attempt to shift the blame for this
>> >> colossal
>> >> > and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block
>> holders
>> >> > while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of
>> >> > AFRINIC itself.  I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action
>> >> > will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a
>> >> > backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a
>> general
>> >> > disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific
>> >> > national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this
>> case.
>> >> >
>> >> > For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances
>> misplaced,
>> >> > Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.
>> >> > The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign
>> and
>> >> > to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or
>> >> placed
>> >> > under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to
>> >> all.
>> >> > AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding
>> >> responsibility.
>> >> >
>> >> > I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and
>> effectively
>> >> > remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still
>> ongoing
>> >> > after-effects.  I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the
>> now
>> >> > evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the
>> >> carpet
>> >> > will no longer be considered a vialble option.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Regards,
>> >> > rfg
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > P.S.  I must strenuously object to your use of the word
>> "whistleblower"
>> >> in
>> >> > this context Mr. Folayan.  That term is usually used in reference to
>> >> some
>> >> > insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed
>> >> > first-hand some malfeasance.  Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this
>> >> > description.  Rather, we have labored as outsiders only.  We have not
>> >> > been privy to any "inside" information.  Quite the opposite in
>> fact.  We
>> >> > have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable
>> requests
>> >> > for information by AFRINIC staff.
>> >> >
>> >> > Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our
>> >> reasonable
>> >> > requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.
>> >> Exactly
>> >> > such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four
>> other
>> >> > Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists
>> >> upon
>> >> > request.  When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such
>> >> unredacted
>> >> > WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were
>> >> rejected
>> >> > out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved
>> >> policy
>> >> > was cited as the basis for the denial.
>> >> >
>> >> > At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate
>> >> explanation for
>> >> > this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to
>> be
>> >> > granted at long last.  Certain portions of my research cannot be
>> >> completed
>> >> > without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved
>> basis
>> >> for
>> >> > the rejection of such requests.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > P.P.S.  As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of
>> the
>> >> > numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place.  I feel
>> >> > compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively
>> been
>> >> > double-victimized in at least two specific instances.
>> >> >
>> >> > First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large
>> IPv4
>> >> > blocks "liberated" from its free pool.  Secondarily and even more
>> >> insultingly
>> >> > however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also
>> >> arranged
>> >> > to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be
>> >> associated
>> >> > with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all
>> other
>> >> > legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired
>> IPv4
>> >> > allocations.
>> >> >
>> >> > I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy 168.80.0.0/15
>> >> block,
>> >> > registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the
>> >> non-legacy
>> >> > 196.16.0.0/14 block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC
>> organization.
>> >> These
>> >> > blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six
>> >> million
>> >> > U.S. dollars.
>> >> >
>> >> > As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the
>> RPD
>> >> > mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as
>> >> MEMBER-ONLY,
>> >> > as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold
>> any
>> >> > actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees
>> to
>> >> > AFRINIC.
>> >> >
>> >> > I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in
>> this
>> >> > regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it
>> >> does
>> >> > appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have
>> -both-
>> >> > stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for
>> years
>> >> > on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be
>> >> due
>> >> > on these IPv4 assignments.
>> >> >
>> >> > Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further
>> >> clarification
>> >> > with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have
>> been
>> >> > collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned,
>> for
>> >> > any year since their allocation to and association with the
>> >> organizations
>> >> > noted.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> --------------------------------------------------
>> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
>> >> Managing Director
>> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
>> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
>> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
>> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 14
>> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:07:01 -0800
>> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
>> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >> Message-ID: <21084.1575626821 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >>
>> >> Mr. Folayan,
>> >>
>> >> Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful
>> response.
>> >>
>> >> At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and
>> beyond
>> >> what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> In message <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>,
>> >> Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should
>> >> >conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more
>> >> >honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking
>> stakeholder.
>> >> >It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.
>> >>
>> >> Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.
>> >>
>> >> Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to
>> see
>> >> the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC.  That is quite certainly not a
>> >> goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as
>> >> you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder
>> >> should wish for.  AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global
>> >> Internet governance.  I cannot even envision things as being otherwise.
>> >> No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a
>> >> few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second.  And to use an
>> >> even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing
>> >> smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more than
>> >> I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the plains.
>> >>
>> >> If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was being
>> >> formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested
>> >> that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already
>> >> sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it,
>> being
>> >> preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere.  Now I may stand on the comfortable
>> >> shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but
>> >> I do not question the utility of the journey.
>> >>
>> >> The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think, matters
>> >> of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose.  Time will
>> >> tell if that is an accurate assesment.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >> rfg
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 15
>> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:14:31 +0100
>> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
>> >> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>, General
>> >>         Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >> Message-ID: <8d06cf43-7c72-07df-e510-96917cd8e0ed at gmail.com>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>> >>
>> >> Good points Jordi, and thanks for the throwback on the very many
>> amazing
>> >> sacrifices we all made, to grow the Internet in Africa.
>> >>
>> >> I will resist asking Ernest to defend himself here, We are not
>> >> constituted as a competent jury, neither do we want to compromise the
>> >> ongoing investigations.
>> >>
>> >> Questions are appropriate, so will be his own admissions or rebuttals,
>> >> when the investigations are completed.
>> >>
>> >> I may be wrong, but that is my own expectations and position.
>> >>
>> >> Sunday.
>> >>
>> >> On 06/12/2019 10:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Hi Sunday, all,
>> >> >
>> >> > I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article.
>> Let
>> >> > me tell why.
>> >> >
>> >> > I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My
>> >> > first AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and
>> shortly
>> >> > after, during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could
>> >> > contribute to the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and
>> >> > joining Ernest in his trips to do the Registration Services training
>> >> > so I do IPv6 trainings.
>> >> >
>> >> > Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos,
>> >> > I was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the
>> >> > Madrid Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from
>> >> > Sunday, I could resolve that on the next day and flight again to do
>> >> > the training.
>> >> >
>> >> > My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing
>> that,
>> >> > and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been
>> >> > doing those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been
>> >> > able to take advantage of that.
>> >> >
>> >> > The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as
>> >> > well as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much
>> >> > together, you get to know people, and we are talking here about
>> almost
>> >> > 15 years. Of course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have
>> a
>> >> > hidden face. As humans, we all have positive and negative things. But
>> >> > I?m really shocked, I still resist to believe it.
>> >> >
>> >> > I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the
>> >> > position of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think
>> >> > you will use your own name for registering companies, or instead you
>> >> > will bribe someone, may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your
>> >> > family name to appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly
>> >> > and non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t
>> mean
>> >> > he is still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or
>> >> > something similar.
>> >> >
>> >> > Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents.
>> >> > If you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be
>> enough.
>> >> >
>> >> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,
>> >> > and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes
>> and
>> >> > involvement an all this.
>> >> >
>> >> > Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal
>> >> > interest. My only interest is to know the **real true** and I?m sure
>> >> > everybody agrees on that.
>> >> >
>> >> > Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so
>> >> > no doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and
>> very
>> >> > thankful for that.
>> >> >
>> >> > Regards,
>> >> >
>> >> > Jordi
>> >> >
>> >> > @jordipalet
>> >> >
>> >> > El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <sfolayan at gmail.com
>> >> > <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>> escribi?:
>> >> >
>> >> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway
>> >> > suggest that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only
>> >> > on legacy space.
>> >> >
>> >> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal
>> >> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
>> >> > done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
>> >> > established, the law should take its course and people should stand
>> >> > accountable for their deeds.
>> >> >
>> >> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
>> >> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of
>> >> > 7 years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to
>> >> > discover the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or
>> >> > in active use, why would or should they not have been returned to the
>> >> > Registry for the common good?
>> >> >
>> >> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their
>> >> > legal department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with
>> >> > gusto by now.
>> >> >
>> >> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on
>> behalf
>> >> > of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system
>> here,
>> >> > with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
>> >> > rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
>> >> > available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of
>> >> > our time and intellect.
>> >> >
>> >> > Sunday.
>> >> >
>> >> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >     Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there
>> >> >     appears to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy
>> >> >     space.
>> >> >
>> >> >     I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the
>> >> >     problem and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space
>> issue.
>> >> >
>> >> >     It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on
>> how
>> >> >     space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
>> >> >     mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
>> >> >     legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then
>> >> >     moving legacy space under those processes may not have the
>> desired
>> >> >     outcome.
>> >> >
>> >> >     Mike
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >         On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu
>> >> >         <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >         Completely agree with Sunday.
>> >> >
>> >> >         Mark.
>> >> >
>> >> >         On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >             Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues,
>> specifically
>> >> >             ancient squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet
>> >> >             in Africa, AfriNIC Services and bringing legacy spaces
>> >> >             under some form of RSA?
>> >> >
>> >> >             I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and
>> let
>> >> >             us see how to help and empower the people doing useful
>> >> >             work for Africa.
>> >> >
>> >> >             Thanks.
>> >> >
>> >> >             Sunday.
>> >> >
>> >> >             On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >                 I hope you all will take the time to read and think
>> >> >                 about the following
>> >> >                 news story.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
>> >> >
>> >> >                 ? I will have more to say about this in due course.?
>> >> >                 For the moment, I only
>> >> >                 wish to say that the investigation undertaken by
>> >> >                 myself and Jan Vermeulen
>> >> >                 is ongoing, and that many others are provably
>> involved.
>> >> >                 ? ? Regards,
>> >> >                 rfg
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >                 _______________________________________________
>> >> >                 Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> >                 Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> >                 <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> >
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >         _______________________________________________
>> >> >         Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> >         Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> >         <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> >         https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >     _______________________________________________
>> >> >
>> >> >     Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> >
>> >> >     Community-Discuss at afrinic.net  <mailto:
>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> >
>> >> >     https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > --------------------------------------------------
>> >> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan
>> >> > Managing Director
>> >> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
>> >> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
>> >> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
>> >> > Email:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng  <mailto:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng>,
>> >> sfolayan at gmail.com  <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>
>> >> > ---------------------------------------------------
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss
>> >> > mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > **********************************************
>> >> > IPv4 is over
>> >> > Are you ready for the new Internet ?
>> >> > http://www.theipv6company.com
>> >> > The IPv6 Company
>> >> >
>> >> > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged
>> >> > or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive
>> >> > use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty
>> >> > authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents
>> of
>> >> > this information, even if partially, including attached files, is
>> >> > strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you
>> >> > are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying,
>> >> > distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if
>> >> > partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be
>> >> > considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original
>> >> > sender to inform about this communication and delete it.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> --------------------------------------------------
>> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
>> >> Managing Director
>> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
>> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
>> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
>> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
>> >> ---------------------------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> -------------- next part --------------
>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> >> URL: <
>> >>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/8c6c63d5/attachment-0001.html
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 16
>> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 12:17:52 +0200
>> >> From: Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>
>> >> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>
>> >> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >> Message-ID: <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > On 6 Dec 2019, at 11:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss <
>> >> community-discuss at afrinic.net> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,
>> >> and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and
>> >> involvement an all this.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> :-)  Might as well setup a confession booth and provide absolution of
>> >> souls.  On a serious note, we need a proper investigation.  Let?s wait
>> to
>> >> hear from the CEO
>> >>
>> >> Omo
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -------------- next part --------------
>> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> >> URL: <
>> >>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/4e0f75fc/attachment-0001.html
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 17
>> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:21:40 +0100
>> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com>
>> >> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>, General Discussions
>> >>         of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >> Message-ID: <c071ab53-ba47-a98a-8e28-d97187ae8c10 at gmail.com>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>> >>
>> >> Dear Mr Guilmette,
>> >>
>> >> On 06/12/2019 11:07, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
>> >> > Mr. Folayan,
>> >> >
>> >> > Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful
>> >> response.
>> >> >
>> >> > At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and
>> beyond
>> >> > what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > In message <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>,
>> >> > Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we
>> should
>> >> >> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much
>> more
>> >> >> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking
>> >> stakeholder.
>> >> >> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.
>> >> > Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.
>> >> >
>> >> > Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to
>> see
>> >> > the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC.  That is quite certainly not
>> a
>> >> > goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as
>> >> > you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder
>> >> > should wish for.  AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global
>> >> > Internet governance.  I cannot even envision things as being
>> otherwise.
>> >> > No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of
>> a
>> >> > few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second.  And to use an
>> >> > even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing
>> >> > smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more
>> than
>> >> > I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the
>> plains.
>> >> >
>> >> > If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was
>> being
>> >> > formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested
>> >> > that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already
>> >> > sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it,
>> being
>> >> > preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere.  Now I may stand on the comfortable
>> >> > shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel,
>> but
>> >> > I do not question the utility of the journey.
>> >> >
>> >> > The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think,
>> matters
>> >> > of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose.  Time
>> will
>> >> > tell if that is an accurate assesment.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> This is most assuring and comforting at the same time.
>> >>
>> >> If I have sounded off-key, please accept my sincere apologies, and
>> thank
>> >> you very much for the good job you have done for the community so far.
>> >> History will never forget your role and progressive disposition at this
>> >> point in time.
>> >>
>> >> When AfriNIC was being formed, the challenges of today, were not
>> >> envisioned in the very many ways that they now present themselves.
>> >> Africa has come a long way. Unfortunately, there are still many more
>> >> oceans to cross, but we will all band together as a purposeful fleet.
>> >> That is how we can all weather the storms that may come, but sure they
>> >> will come.
>> >>
>> >> With kind Regards ...
>> >>
>> >> Sunday.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 18
>> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:58:27 -0800
>> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
>> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >> Message-ID: <21283.1575629907 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >>
>> >> In message <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es>,
>> >> JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >I also believe that he is a smart guy.
>> >>
>> >> I would not dispute that characterization in the slightest.
>> >>
>> >> >So, put yourself in the position of
>> >> >a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use
>> >> your o
>> >> >wn name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe
>> >> someone,=C2=A0
>> >> > may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to appear
>> in
>> >> an
>> >> >y documents? I feel this is really silly and non-understandable.
>> >>
>> >> And yet it seemed to work, for years on end, with no one raising so
>> much
>> >> as an eyebrow because nobody seriously investigated or seriously looked
>> >> at all of the relevant corporate documents and WHOIS records and, in
>> >> particular, the historical WHOIS records, including but not limited to
>> >> these ones:
>> >>
>> >> ORG-AI2-AFRINIC     https://pastebin.com/raw/7rqfP1LD
>> >> ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC   https://pastebin.com/raw/Nx79QkgB
>> >> ORG-IA41-AFRINIC    https://pastebin.com/raw/ynEXMyCP
>> >> ORG-ZZ139-AFRINIC   https://pastebin.com/raw/GX5egcbW
>> >> ORG-ZZ23-AFRINIC    https://pastebin.com/raw/Yu8K9z6N
>> >>
>> >> I have been chasing down miscreants on the Internet for more than 20
>> years
>> >> now.  One of the lessons I have learned in that time is that none of
>> them
>> >> are ten feet tall, and the majority of them absolutely suck at OPSEC.
>> It
>> >> is almost as if some part of them is deluding their own brains into the
>> >> false belief that what they are doing is not really wrong, in some
>> >> sense, and that they are somehow actually entitled to the stuff they
>> are
>> >> stealing, and that thus, at some level, they don't actually need to
>> hide
>> >> what they are doing all that throughly, because just as White House
>> Chief
>> >> of Staff Mick Mulvaney did not long ago... much to the shock of
>> >> everyone...
>> >> if they are ever caught and confronted they assume that they will just
>> say
>> >> "Yea.  So?  We do that all of the time.  Get over it!"
>> >>
>> >> >So maybe
>> >> >somebody used him, which doesn=E2=80=99t mean he is still guilty
>> >> =E2=80=9Cin
>> >> >vigilando=E2=80=9D because he trusted anyone else, or something
>> similar.
>> >>
>> >> It's a nice thought, and you are a generous person to allow this
>> >> possibility
>> >> Jordi.  All I can say is that other information, not yet made public,
>> >> appears to rule out the possibility that Mr. Byaruhanga was either an
>> >> unwitting stooge or a convenient fall guy.
>> >>
>> >> >Do we believe in =E2=80=9Cpresumption of innocence=E2=80=9D? I do,
>> >> despite
>> >> >documents. If you don=E2=80=99t know the complete background,
>> documents
>> >> may
>> >> >not be enough.
>> >>
>> >> I agree.
>> >>
>> >> That having been said, I hope that you will, as I have, spend some time
>> >> carefully scrutinizing both the current and historical WHOIS records
>> >> associated with the ORGanizations and the IPv4 blocks listed in the two
>> >> tables in Jan's article.  If you do that, I think that you will be, as
>> >> I was, hard pressed to explain all of the quite glaring anomalies in
>> >> any way that does not involve a great deal of very deliberate
>> malfesance
>> >> on somebody's part.  Once you are convinced of that, then the question
>> >> becomes:  Who is responsible?  And it is at that point that the various
>> >> official governmental corporate registration records would seem to
>> become
>> >> very relevant.
>> >>
>> >> >So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,
>> and
>> >> >may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and
>> >> involvement
>> >> >an all this.
>> >>
>> >> I would like to echo that sentiment.
>> >>
>> >> Jan Vermeulen and myself have tried, repeatedly, and over some
>> significant
>> >> time now to reach him, both via voice, at a number of different phone
>> >> numbers
>> >> that we have identified as being associated with him, and also via
>> email,
>> >> at various of his known email addresses, and we have been utterly
>> unable
>> >> to
>> >> do so.  We both very much look forward to speaking with him and getting
>> >> his
>> >> side of the story, if he has one.
>> >>
>> >> That having been said, we cannot be blamed, I think, for reaching
>> certain
>> >> reasonable conclusions when Jan's industry sources informed him, less
>> than
>> >> a day after I had attempted to confront Ernest, via email, with the
>> facts
>> >> arrayed against him, that he had abruptly resigned his position at
>> AFRINIC
>> >> after 15 years on the job.
>> >>
>> >> His abrupt resignation was and remains his only apparent response to
>> our
>> >> inquiries.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >> rfg
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Message: 19
>> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 03:16:57 -0800
>> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com>
>> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
>> >> Message-ID: <21648.1575631017 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>
>> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >>
>> >> In message <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net>,
>> >> Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On a serious note, we need a proper investigation.  Let's
>> >> >wait to hear from the CEO
>> >>
>> >> Have any of us been doing otherwise, for lo these past three months
>> now?
>> >>
>> >> Have we been afforded any other choice in the matter?
>> >>
>> >> Can AFRINIC clean its own stables?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >> rfg
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> Subject: Digest Footer
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> End of Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1
>> >> *************************************************
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > *Ogundele Olumuyiwa Caleb*
>> > *muyiwacaleb at gmail.com <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>*
>> > *234 - 8077377378*
>> > *234 - 07030777969*
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Community-Discuss mailing list
>> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> >
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191210/3a2ed241/attachment.html
>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 551, Issue 1
>> *************************************************
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>


-- 
*Ogundele Olumuyiwa Caleb*
*muyiwacaleb at gmail.com <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>*
*234 - 8077377378*
*234 - 07030777969*
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From abscoco at gmail.com  Wed Dec 11 08:53:55 2019
From: abscoco at gmail.com (Sylvain Baya)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 09:53:55 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Access to AFRINIC Whois raw DB & INR (was : The
 Looting of AFRINIC)
Message-ID: <CAJjTEvGu4NSgNf+1YxK72j=ue=m4vayCnrBXa90DCht=TXht5Q@mail.gmail.com>

{*was : "Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1"*}

Hi all,

Please see my comments below (inline)...

Le ven. 6 d?c. 2019 ? 16:48, Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com
>
a ?crit :

> Dear Ronald,
>
> So I read where this comment below was attributed to you.
>
>

>> *?Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our
>> reasonable requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS
>> database.  Exactly
>> such unredacted database dumps *are* provided by all of
>> the four other Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers
>> and journalists upon
>> request.  When we submitted repeated requests for exactly
>> such unredacted
>> WHOIS database dumps to AFRINIC staff however,
our> requests were rejected> out of hand and neither any clear
>> reason nor *any* community-approved policy was cited as
>> the basis for the denial.?*
>
> While not taking brief for AFRINIC or any of its staff, I feel you should
> know that AFRINIC?s operation is also being governed by Mauritius data
> protection law.
>

Dear Caleb,
...part of the story you have quoted above is archived here [1] ; including
the process to request a full dump copie of the af-whois-db.
__
[1]: <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2019/009809.html>

~?~
> > <
https://afrinic.net/support/general-queries/how-can-i-request-for-bulk-whois-data
>
> you might want to talk to them, directly, about a NRTM feed, though.
>

Do note that the above application and vetting is to allow access to
un-sanitised WHOIS data. That is, including all email addresses unmasked
(similar to command-line 'whois -B' output), as well as other contact
information. And this is entirely at hostmaster's discretion. The reason
for this being restricted is to prevent abuse of personal data for spamming
or other purposes. However, a full dump of the database, with emails, phone
numbers and physical addresses censored is freely available. This cannot be
used for looking up and person's or organisations contacts (and so cannot
be abused in that way either). However for a bulk set of allocations and
their status, it's all there, and updated once every 24 hours.
{ftp|http}://ftp.afrinic.net/pub/dbase/ <http://ftp.afrinic.net/pub/dbase/>*
~?~

> Mauritius regulates data protection under the Data Protection Act 2017
> (DPA 2017 or Act), proclaimed through Proclamation No. 3 of 2018,
effective
> January 15, 2018. The Act repeals and replaces the Data Protection Act
> 2004, so as to align with the European Union General Data Protection
> Regulation 2016/679 (GDPR).
>
> Even if you are not familiar with Mauritius law, the EU GDPR which is more
> popular should tell you the implication of revealing a WHOIS database to a
> non-state prosecutorial actor like yourself who does not have a court
> warrant to see the redacted sections you seek. Please correct me if I?m
> wrong in my legal analysis of your request.
>
> Perhaps, isn?t it time for the community to revisit the Internet Number
> Resources review policy
> <https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal>
>

URI = <https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2016-gen-001-d8/amp>

> which was not on the docket for policy at this just-concluded meeting?
>

Please see here :
<https://meeting.afrinic.net/afrinic-31/en/agenda/programme>
"[...]
Thursday - 05 December 2019
[...]
*Policy Proposal: Internet Number Resources review by AFRINIC *
*14:00 - 14:45*
*Talatona 1,2,3*
<https://meeting.afrinic.net/afrinic-31/en/agenda/programme/icals/bydate/null/2019-12-05/_2445/event.ics>
[...]"

It was one of two DPP (Draft Policy Proposal) presented by online presenters :
<https://youtu.be/ZW8Ph3j8kzY>

> https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal
>
>
...gain, the last version of the DPP is here :
<https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2016-gen-001-d8/amp>

> We might be doing something right this time if that policy will allow for
> a diligent review of resources including the legacy ones.

...we are forced to consider it now, i'll definitely (whith GOD's
allowance) take
necessary time to review it.
Maybe a challenging approach with more DPP concurrent initiatives to solve
the problem should be envisioned ?

>
> Regards
>
> Caleb Ogundele
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 12:17 PM <community-discuss-request at afrinic.net>
> wrote:
>
>> [...]
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..."
>> [...]
>>
>

...please pay more attention to the recommendation above !

Thanks.

Shalom,
--sb.


> --
> *Ogundele Olumuyiwa Caleb*
> *muyiwacaleb at gmail.com <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>*
> *234 - 8077377378*
> *234 - 07030777969*
> _______________
> [...]


--
Best Regards !
baya.sylvain [AT cmNOG DOT cm] | <https://www.cmnog.cm> | <
https://survey.cmnog.cm>
Subscribe to Mailing List : <https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/>
__
#?LASAINTEBIBLE?|?#?Romains15?:33?*Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec
vous tous! ?#?Amen?!*?
?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement?
?*Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire
apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!*? (#Psaumes42:2)



From rfg at tristatelogic.com  Wed Dec 11 09:06:18 2019
From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette)
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 01:06:18 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Access to AFRINIC Whois raw DB & INR (was :
	The Looting of AFRINIC)
In-Reply-To: <CAJjTEvGu4NSgNf+1YxK72j=ue=m4vayCnrBXa90DCht=TXht5Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <46877.1576055178@segfault.tristatelogic.com>

In message <CAJjTEvGu4NSgNf+1YxK72j=ue=m4vayCnrBXa90DCht=TXht5Q at mail.gmail.com>
Sylvain Baya <abscoco at gmail.com> wrote:

>Do note that the above application and vetting is to allow access to
>un-sanitised WHOIS data. That is, including all email addresses unmasked
>(similar to command-line 'whois -B' output), as well as other contact
>information. And this is entirely at hostmaster's discretion. 

For the record, we were unable to even find out who, specifically, had
denied our valid and legitimate requests for unredacted WHOIS data.

We would certainly like to know if the AFRINIC Policy Coordinator either
made or influenced the decision to reject our reasonable requests.

As far as we are concerned, those requests are still pending.


Regards,
rfg



From owen at delong.com  Fri Dec 13 01:36:24 2019
From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong)
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2019 17:36:24 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 551, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <CAHcb0ASgpJL0_S-jRAcNhyDFmfK8hVh9chFJAsKTAHnL5GKsiQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1860.1575986283.5925.community-discuss@afrinic.net>
 <CAHcb0ASgpJL0_S-jRAcNhyDFmfK8hVh9chFJAsKTAHnL5GKsiQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C4E6BCC1-F22D-4C42-AD1B-0B359F4078EC@delong.com>

The best thing to do with the review policy is to abandon it. Unfortunately, despite sustained opposition and an inability to bring it to consensus, the authors persist.

Owen


> On Dec 10, 2019, at 08:44 , Anthony Ubah <ubah.tonyiyke at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear Caleb and Arnaud,
> 
>  
> I?m confused about your insinuation on this with respect to the solving the problem at hand. From the surface value, it looks like a very good policy. However, I still struggle to decipher with the practicality of implementing the Internet Number Resource review policy, and the consequences in the real world.
> 
> African is a region of complex and opaque soc-political systems. Introducing such complex policies will most likely not lead to an abuse of power, over-policing, and victimization. Introducing a Gestapo style policing will create a cancerous system which will be unfavorable to the region? as a whole.
> 
> I was at the at just concluded meeting where this policy was re-represented, giving the feedback from the community, I hoped to see a revised version but alas! it was the same.
> 
>  
> Best Regards,
> 
> ANTHONY 
> 
> E-mail: anthony.ubah at goldspine.com <mailto:anthony.ubah at gloworld.com>.ng
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 2:58 PM <community-discuss-request at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss-request at afrinic.net>> wrote:
> Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to
>         community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>         https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         community-discuss-request at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss-request at afrinic.net>
> 
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>         community-discuss-owner at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss-owner at afrinic.net>
> 
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..."
> 
> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1 (Arnaud AMELINA)
>    2. Re: Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1 (Arnaud AMELINA)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:48:37 +0000
> From: Arnaud AMELINA <amelnaud at gmail.com <mailto:amelnaud at gmail.com>>
> To: Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com <mailto:muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>>
> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547,
>         Issue 1
> Message-ID:
>         <CAGDMR_cXHVW34SOD40wNBOrhiVOzR1-p+=CPTkSvfPCLee3mPw at mail.gmail.com <mailto:CPTkSvfPCLee3mPw at mail.gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> +1 to Caleb as you say it, it's time to find consensus on review policy.
> 
> Regard
> 
> --
> Arnaud
> 
> Le ven. 6 d?c. 2019 ? 15:48, Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com <mailto:muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>>
> a ?crit :
> 
> > Dear Ronald,
> >
> > So I read where this comment below was attributed to you.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *>?Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our
> > reasonable> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS
> > database.  Exactly> such unredacted database dumps *are* provided by all of
> > the four other> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and
> > journalists upon> request.  When we submitted repeated requests for exactly
> > such unredacted> WHOIS database dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our
> > requests were rejected> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any
> > community-approved policy> was cited as the basis for the denial.?*
> > While not taking brief for AFRINIC or any of its staff, I feel you should
> > know that AFRINIC?s operation is also being governed by Mauritius data
> > protection law.
> > Mauritius regulates data protection under the Data Protection Act 2017
> > (DPA 2017 or Act), proclaimed through Proclamation No. 3 of 2018, effective
> > January 15, 2018. The Act repeals and replaces the Data Protection Act
> > 2004, so as to align with the European Union General Data Protection
> > Regulation 2016/679 (GDPR).
> >
> > Even if you are not familiar with Mauritius law, the EU GDPR which is more
> > popular should tell you the implication of revealing a WHOIS database to a
> > non-state prosecutorial actor like yourself who does not have a court
> > warrant to see the redacted sections you seek. Please correct me if I?m
> > wrong in my legal analysis of your request.
> >
> > Perhaps, isn?t it time for the community to revisit the Internet Number
> > Resources review policy
> > <https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal <https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal>> which was not
> > on the docket for policy at this just-concluded meeting?
> > https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal <https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal>
> >
> > We might be doing something right this time if that policy will allow for
> > a diligent review of resources including the legacy ones.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Caleb Ogundele
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 12:17 PM <community-discuss-request at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss-request at afrinic.net>>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to
> >>         community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >>
> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >>         https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >>         community-discuss-request at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss-request at afrinic.net>
> >>
> >> You can reach the person managing the list at
> >>         community-discuss-owner at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss-owner at afrinic.net>
> >>
> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> >> than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..."
> >>
> >>
> >> Today's Topics:
> >>
> >>    1. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)
> >>    2. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mike Silber)
> >>    3. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Elkins)
> >>    4. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Andrew Alston)
> >>    5. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)
> >>    6. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
> >>    7. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)
> >>    8. [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC (Sylvain Baya)
> >>    9. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Isabel Odida)
> >>   10. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
> >>   11. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
> >>   12. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)
> >>   13. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
> >>   14. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
> >>   15. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
> >>   16. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)
> >>   17. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
> >>   18. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
> >>   19. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 1
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:27:42 +0200
> >> From: Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>>
> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16 at seacom.mu <mailto:9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16 at seacom.mu>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >>
> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
> >>
> >> Mark.
> >>
> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >> >
> >> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how
> >> > to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks.
> >> >
> >> > Sunday.
> >> >
> >> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
> >> >> news story.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html>
> >> >>
> >> >> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the moment,
> >> >> I only
> >> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> >> >> Vermeulen
> >> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >> >> ? ? Regards,
> >> >> rfg
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> >>
> >>
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> URL: <
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/7f6aa1b8/attachment-0001.html <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/7f6aa1b8/attachment-0001.html>
> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 2
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:46:15 +0200
> >> From: Mike Silber <silber.mike at gmail.com <mailto:silber.mike at gmail.com>>
> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3 at gmail.com <mailto:2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3 at gmail.com>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
> >> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >>
> >> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and
> >> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >>
> >> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
> >> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then
> >> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
> >> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes
> >> may not have the desired outcome.
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Completely agree with Sunday.
> >> >
> >> > Mark.
> >> >
> >> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >> >>
> >> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how
> >> to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks.
> >> >>
> >> >> Sunday.
> >> >>
> >> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> >>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
> >> following
> >> >>> news story.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html>
> >> <
> >> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html>>
> >>
> >> >>>   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment,
> >> I only
> >> >>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> >> Vermeulen
> >> >>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >> >>>     Regards,
> >> >>> rfg
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net> <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss> <
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>>
> >> >>>
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >>
> >> -------------- next part --------------
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> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/1d4a9dec/attachment-0001.html <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/1d4a9dec/attachment-0001.html>
> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 3
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:59:57 +0200
> >> From: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>>
> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <007bb014-4eb8-157f-5312-f8333782f32f at posix.co.za <mailto:007bb014-4eb8-157f-5312-f8333782f32f at posix.co.za>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
> >>
> >> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to
> >> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case (looting
> >> of non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.
> >>
> >> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
> >> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >> >
> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
> >> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >> >
> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
> >> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
> >> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
> >> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving
> >> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.
> >> >
> >> > Mike
> >> >
> >> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>
> >> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>>> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
> >> >>
> >> >> Mark.
> >> >>
> >> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see
> >> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Thanks.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Sunday.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
> >> >>>> following
> >> >>>> news story.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the
> >> >>>> moment, I only
> >> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> >> >>>> Vermeulen
> >> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >> >>>> ? ? Regards,
> >> >>>> rfg
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net> <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Mark James ELKINS? -? Posix Systems - (South) Africa
> >> mje at posix.co.za???? <http://mje at posix.co.za/????>?? Tel: +27.826010496 <tel:+27826010496>
> >> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za <https://ftth.posix.co.za/>
> >>
> >> Posix SystemsVCARD for MJ Elkins
> >>
> >> -------------- next part --------------
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> >> >
> >> -------------- next part --------------
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> >> Desc: not available
> >> URL: <
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/3b4bf35e/attachment-0001.jpg <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/3b4bf35e/attachment-0001.jpg>
> >> >
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> >> URL: <
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> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 4
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:10:48 +0000
> >> From: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com <mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>>
> >> To: "mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>" <mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>>,
> >>         "community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>" <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID:
> >>         <
> >> DBBPR03MB5415D6F757C9E3BD1AE2CDE4EE5C0 at DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com <mailto:DBBPR03MB5415D6F757C9E3BD1AE2CDE4EE5C0 at DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
> >> >
> >>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> >>
> >> I would be very curious to hear from a legal perspective what - if any -
> >> legal liability AfriNIC has in a situation like this.
> >>
> >> The fact is - space has value - and if space is stolen - used for spam or
> >> whatever else - and the reputation of said space is damaged - it?s value
> >> decreases.  Now I fully realize that space can be hijacked - and at that
> >> point potentially the hijackers may hold the liability. However - when the
> >> space seems to have been stolen and sold off by a staff member of the
> >> organization that is meant in effect to the curator of the space - I
> >> question if there is not a liability issue at play if it can be proven that
> >> due care was not taken to safe guard against the actions taken.
> >>
> >> I?m no lawyer though so I would really be interested to know the legal
> >> perspective - can an rir be held liable to the actions of its staff if it
> >> did not adequately protect against the actions taken.
> >>
> >> Andrew
> >>
> >> Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>>
> >> Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 3:59:57 PM
> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net> <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >>
> >>
> >> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to
> >> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case (looting of
> >> non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.
> >>
> >> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
> >> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
> >> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >>
> >> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and
> >> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >>
> >> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
> >> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then
> >> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
> >> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes
> >> may not have the desired outcome.
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu><mailto:
> >> mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
> >>
> >> Mark.
> >>
> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >>
> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to
> >> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >>
> >> Sunday.
> >>
> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
> >> news story.
> >>
> >>
> >> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html>
> >> <
> >> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html>
> >> >
> >>   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
> >> only
> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen
> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >>     Regards,
> >> rfg
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net><mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss><
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net><mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss><
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net><mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss><
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
> >> mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za><mailto:mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>>       Tel:
> >> +27.826010496<tel:+27826010496>
> >> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za <https://ftth.posix.co.za/><
> >> https://ftth.posix.co.za <https://ftth.posix.co.za/>>
> >>
> >> [Posix            Systems][VCARD for            MJ Elkins]
> >> -------------- next part --------------
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> >> >
> >> -------------- next part --------------
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> >> Desc: abessive_logo.jpg
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> >> >
> >> -------------- next part --------------
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> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 5
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 15:11:04 +0200
> >> From: Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>>
> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <7fa06e69-5728-f936-ce1d-f471893ccc17 at seacom.mu <mailto:7fa06e69-5728-f936-ce1d-f471893ccc17 at seacom.mu>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >>
> >> I don't disagree with that either.
> >>
> >> I am certain AFRINIC are working on this, and I know there will be no
> >> shortage of queries about this from the field, much to our
> >> already-clogged e-mail boxes. I don't want to do the jobs of others; no
> >> one is doing mine for me.
> >>
> >> My preferred current focus - your last paragraph, below.
> >>
> >> Mark.
> >>
> >> On 5/Dec/19 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
> >> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >> >
> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
> >> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >> >
> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
> >> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
> >> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
> >> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving
> >> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.?
> >> >
> >> > Mike
> >> >
> >> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>
> >> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>>> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
> >> >>
> >> >> Mark.
> >> >>
> >> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see
> >> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Thanks.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Sunday.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
> >> >>>> following
> >> >>>> news story.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the
> >> >>>> moment, I only
> >> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> >> >>>> Vermeulen
> >> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >> >>>> ? ? Regards,
> >> >>>> rfg
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net> <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> >
> >>
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> URL: <
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/c8c491fa/attachment-0001.html <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/c8c491fa/attachment-0001.html>
> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 6
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 19:54:21 +0100
> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>>
> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com <mailto:4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"
> >>
> >> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest
> >> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy
> >> space.
> >>
> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal
> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
> >> done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
> >> established, the law should take its course and people should stand
> >> accountable for their deeds.
> >>
> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover
> >> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active
> >> use, why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for
> >> the common good?
> >>
> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.
> >>
> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
> >> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
> >> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
> >> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
> >> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our
> >> time and intellect.
> >>
> >> Sunday.
> >>
> >> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
> >> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >> >
> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
> >> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >> >
> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
> >> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
> >> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
> >> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving
> >> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.
> >> >
> >> > Mike
> >> >
> >> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>
> >> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>>> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
> >> >>
> >> >> Mark.
> >> >>
> >> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see
> >> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Thanks.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Sunday.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
> >> >>>> following
> >> >>>> news story.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the
> >> >>>> moment, I only
> >> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> >> >>>> Vermeulen
> >> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >> >>>> ? ? Regards,
> >> >>>> rfg
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net> <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >>
> >> --
> >> --------------------------------------------------
> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> >> Managing Director
> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng <mailto:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng>, sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> URL: <
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/118317f5/attachment-0001.html <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/118317f5/attachment-0001.html>
> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 7
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:15:59 +0200
> >> From: Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net <mailto:Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>>
> >> To: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>>
> >> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID:
> >>         <CAG1eoi3w-F2Ui-BfiKmBqYJ=
> >> srHdvBJx2F5vS2k__asGCVTwVw at mail.gmail.com <mailto:srHdvBJx2F5vS2k__asGCVTwVw at mail.gmail.com>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >>
> >> I have to agree with this. As shocking and disappointing as the
> >> revelations
> >> might be, this makes the most sense to me.
> >>
> >> Omo
> >>
> >> On Thu, 5 Dec 2019, 20:56 Sunday Folayan, <sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest
> >> > that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy
> >> > space.
> >> >
> >> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal
> >> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
> >> done.
> >> > I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
> >> established,
> >> > the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for
> >> > their deeds.
> >> >
> >> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
> >> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
> >> > years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover
> >> > the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active
> >> use,
> >> > why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for the
> >> > common good?
> >> >
> >> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
> >> > department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by
> >> now.
> >> >
> >> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
> >> of
> >> > the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, with
> >> > the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather
> >> > apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for
> >> > developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and
> >> > intellect.
> >> > Sunday.
> >> >
> >> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
> >> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >> >
> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
> >> and
> >> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >> >
> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
> >> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and
> >> then
> >> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
> >> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those
> >> processes
> >> > may not have the desired outcome.
> >> >
> >> > Mike
> >> >
> >> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Completely agree with Sunday.
> >> >
> >> > Mark.
> >> >
> >> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >> >
> >> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to
> >> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks.
> >> >
> >> > Sunday.
> >> >
> >> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
> >> > news story.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html>
> >> >   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
> >> > only
> >> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> >> Vermeulen
> >> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >> >     Regards,
> >> > rfg
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://
> >> lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <http://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > --------------------------------------------------
> >> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> >> > Managing Director
> >> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> >> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> >> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> >> > Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng <mailto:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng>, sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>
> >> > ---------------------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> >
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> URL: <
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/582fac38/attachment-0001.html <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/582fac38/attachment-0001.html>
> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 8
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:28:06 +0100
> >> From: Sylvain Baya <abscoco at gmail.com <mailto:abscoco at gmail.com>>
> >> To: "mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>" <mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>>,
> >>         "community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>" <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> Subject: [Community-Discuss] [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID:
> >>         <
> >> CAJjTEvE+sHgdAsJUO4D1pYe1eEwCk6WEMosvhknZqS+AwyF6Kg at mail.gmail.com <mailto:CAJjTEvE%2BsHgdAsJUO4D1pYe1eEwCk6WEMosvhknZqS%2BAwyF6Kg at mail.gmail.com>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >>
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> Le jeudi 5 d?cembre 2019, Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>> a ?crit :
> >>
> >> > Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to
> >> > manipulate the non-legacy space -
> >> >
> >>
> >> Dear Mark,
> >> ...i agree !
> >>
> >> yet it happened. In this case (looting of non-legacy space), the RSA has
> >> > meant nothing.
> >> >
> >>
> >> As you say, i take you on words ; then if the RSA (Registration Service
> >> Agreement) could
> >> easily be bypassed, how to deal with our 'emerged' problem ?
> >>
> >> ...perhaps time to seriously reconsider the long life DPP (Draft Policy
> >> Proposal) [1] ?
> >> __
> >> [1]: <https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2016-gen-001-d8/amp <https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2016-gen-001-d8/amp>>
> >>
> >> Shalom,
> >> --sb.
> >>
> >> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
> >> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >> >
> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
> >> and
> >> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >> >
> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
> >> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and
> >> then
> >> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
> >> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those
> >> processes
> >> > may not have the desired outcome.
> >> >
> >> > Mike
> >> >
> >> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Completely agree with Sunday.
> >> >
> >> > Mark.
> >> >
> >> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >> >
> >> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to
> >> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks.
> >> >
> >> > Sunday.
> >> >
> >> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
> >> > news story.
> >> >
> >> > https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet- <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet->
> >> >
> >> resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> >> >   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
> >> > only
> >> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> >> Vermeulen
> >> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >> >     Regards,
> >> > rfg
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://
> >> lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <http://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> >
> >> > Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
> >> > mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>       Tel: +27.826010496 <+27826010496>
> >> > For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za <https://ftth.posix.co.za/>
> >> >
> >> > [image: Posix Systems][image: VCARD for MJ Elkins]
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> --
> >> Best Regards !
> >> baya.sylvain [AT cmNOG DOT cm] | <https://www.cmnog.cm <https://www.cmnog.cm/>> | <
> >> https://survey.cmnog.cm <https://survey.cmnog.cm/>>
> >> Subscribe to Mailing List : <
> >> https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/ <https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/>>
> >> __
> >> #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|?#?Romains15?:33?*Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec
> >> vous tous! ?#?Amen?!*?
> >> ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement?
> >> ?*Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire
> >> apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!*? (#Psaumes42:2)
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> URL: <
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/63b5ef24/attachment-0001.html <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/63b5ef24/attachment-0001.html>
> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 9
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 23:43:48 +0100
> >> From: Isabel Odida <isabel.odida at gmail.com <mailto:isabel.odida at gmail.com>>
> >> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com <mailto:rfg at tristatelogic.com>>
> >> Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com <mailto:6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii
> >>
> >> I know what sparked this story. Some people have no chill. How convenient
> >> following the last meeting in June. Ok, and then what? What have you
> >> benefited?
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> > On 4 Dec 2019, at 18:23, Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg at tristatelogic.com <mailto:rfg at tristatelogic.com>>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
> >> > news story.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html>
> >> >
> >> > I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
> >> only
> >> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> >> Vermeulen
> >> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> > rfg
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 10
> >> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 14:44:58 -0800
> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com <mailto:rfg at tristatelogic.com>>
> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <18818.1575585898 at segfault.tristatelogic.com <mailto:18818.1575585898 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> In message <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com <mailto:4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>>,
> >> Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> >The community has been informed that there is already some internal
> >> >investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
> >> >done.
> >>
> >> Mr. Folayan,
> >>
> >> These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,
> >> 2019, a full three months ago.  Since that time there has not been a
> >> single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,
> >> or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague assurances
> >> that these matters are being looked into.
> >>
> >> Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns
> >> about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full
> >> three years ago.
> >>
> >>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html <https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html>
> >>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html <https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html>
> >>     https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html>
> >>
> >> I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again
> >> repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,
> >> albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention
> >> paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any
> >> concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.
> >>
> >>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html <https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html>
> >>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html <https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html>
> >>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html <https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html>
> >>
> >> At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly
> >> in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive
> >> issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to
> >> entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it
> >> were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the
> >> courageous reporting of MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/>.  Neither the board nor
> >> the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any
> >> clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will
> >> either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders
> >> and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive
> >> any of the findings that it may reach.  And yet despite having had
> >> either three full months or three full years to look into these
> >> matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and
> >> despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming
> >> from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel patience.
> >>
> >> This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the
> >> community's patience to come to an end?  Does the community have any
> >> assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another
> >> three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield
> >> anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the
> >> current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions
> >> of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?
> >>
> >> On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at long
> >> last be forthcoming?
> >>
> >> >I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
> >> >established, the law should take its course and people should stand
> >> >accountable for their deeds.
> >>
> >> This assertion on your part begs four further questions:
> >>
> >> 1)  Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been presented
> >> in the MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/> article, the majority of which were drawn from
> >> publicly available sources including open government records, what more
> >> will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and intentions
> >> are established"?  What parts of the abundant documentary evidence already
> >> presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?
> >>
> >> 2)  If, as asserted in the MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/> article, it can be
> >> persuasively
> >> demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in fact
> >> purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that AFRINIC
> >> itself is one of the aggrieved parties?  And if so, would you hope and
> >> expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and
> >> all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?
> >>
> >> 3)  Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and
> >> endemic
> >> within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do you
> >> have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all
> >> likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?
> >>
> >> 4)  What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-
> >> documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks from
> >> AFRINIC's own free pool?  Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed by
> >> AFRINIC?  Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever they
> >> may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten booty
> >> on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?
> >>
> >> >I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
> >> >organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
> >> >years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover
> >> >the manipulations.
> >>
> >> On this point, you and I are in complete agreement.  "The system", such
> >> as it is, is quite self-evidently broken.  But this raises the further
> >> question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at
> >> AFRINIC,
> >> while all of this was going on.  Is it even plausible that a single bad
> >> actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars
> >> worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a
> >> several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC
> >> staff even noticed any of this?
> >>
> >> >For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
> >> >department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by
> >> now.
> >>
> >> See above.  Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced with
> >> respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself.  No other
> >> single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much
> >> valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself.  And yet we have, as yet, no
> >> clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any staff
> >> member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone
> >> that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated
> >> by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.
> >>
> >> If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new dictionary.
> >>
> >> >While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
> >> >of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
> >> >with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
> >> >rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
> >> >available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our
> >> >time and intellect.
> >>
> >> See above.  With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we
> >> may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"?  I have
> >> so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any
> >> document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member of
> >> AFRINIC.  In fact, quite the opposite.  I see that a purported three
> >> month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth publicly
> >> reporting on so far.  I see an attempt to shift the blame for this
> >> colossal
> >> and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders
> >> while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of
> >> AFRINIC itself.  I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action
> >> will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a
> >> backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a general
> >> disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific
> >> national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.
> >>
> >> For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances misplaced,
> >> Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.
> >> The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and
> >> to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or
> >> placed
> >> under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to all.
> >> AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding
> >> responsibility.
> >>
> >> I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and effectively
> >> remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still ongoing
> >> after-effects.  I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now
> >> evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the carpet
> >> will no longer be considered a vialble option.
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> rfg
> >>
> >>
> >> P.S.  I must strenuously object to your use of the word "whistleblower" in
> >> this context Mr. Folayan.  That term is usually used in reference to some
> >> insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed
> >> first-hand some malfeasance.  Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this
> >> description.  Rather, we have labored as outsiders only.  We have not
> >> been privy to any "inside" information.  Quite the opposite in fact.  We
> >> have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable requests
> >> for information by AFRINIC staff.
> >>
> >> Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our
> >> reasonable
> >> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.
> >> Exactly
> >> such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four other
> >> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists upon
> >> request.  When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such unredacted
> >> WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were rejected
> >> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved policy
> >> was cited as the basis for the denial.
> >>
> >> At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate explanation
> >> for
> >> this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to be
> >> granted at long last.  Certain portions of my research cannot be completed
> >> without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved basis
> >> for
> >> the rejection of such requests.
> >>
> >>
> >> P.P.S.  As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the
> >> numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place.  I feel
> >> compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively been
> >> double-victimized in at least two specific instances.
> >>
> >> First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large IPv4
> >> blocks "liberated" from its free pool.  Secondarily and even more
> >> insultingly
> >> however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also
> >> arranged
> >> to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be associated
> >> with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other
> >> legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired IPv4
> >> allocations.
> >>
> >> I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy 168.80.0.0/15 <http://168.80.0.0/15> block,
> >> registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the
> >> non-legacy
> >> 196.16.0.0/14 <http://196.16.0.0/14> block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization.
> >> These
> >> blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six million
> >> U.S. dollars.
> >>
> >> As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD
> >> mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as MEMBER-ONLY,
> >> as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold any
> >> actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees to
> >> AFRINIC.
> >>
> >> I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in this
> >> regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it does
> >> appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have -both-
> >> stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for years
> >> on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be due
> >> on these IPv4 assignments.
> >>
> >> Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further
> >> clarification
> >> with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have been
> >> collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned, for
> >> any year since their allocation to and association with the organizations
> >> noted.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 11
> >> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 17:24:26 -0800
> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com <mailto:rfg at tristatelogic.com>>
> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <19435.1575595466 at segfault.tristatelogic.com <mailto:19435.1575595466 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> In message <6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com <mailto:6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com>>,
> >> Isabel Odida <isabel.odida at gmail.com <mailto:isabel.odida at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> >I know what sparked this story.
> >>
> >> If you have something to say, then you have our attention and the floor.
> >> Please proceed.
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> rfg
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 12
> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 10:04:06 +0100
> >> From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es <mailto:jordi.palet at consulintel.es>>
> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es <mailto:79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >>
> >> Hi Sunday, all,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let me
> >> tell why.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My first
> >> AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly after,
> >> during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could contribute to
> >> the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and joining Ernest in his
> >> trips to do the Registration Services training so I do IPv6 trainings.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos, I
> >> was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the Madrid
> >> Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from Sunday, I could
> >> resolve that on the next day and flight again to do the training.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that,
> >> and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been doing
> >> those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been able to take
> >> advantage of that.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as well
> >> as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much together,
> >> you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost 15 years. Of
> >> course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a hidden face. As
> >> humans, we all have positive and negative things. But I?m really shocked, I
> >> still resist to believe it.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the position
> >> of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use
> >> your own name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe
> >> someone,? may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to
> >> appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly and
> >> non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean he is
> >> still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or something
> >> similar.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents. If
> >> you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be enough.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation, and
> >> may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and
> >> involvement an all this.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal interest.
> >> My only interest is to know the *real true* and I?m sure everybody agrees
> >> on that.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so no
> >> doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very
> >> thankful for that.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Jordi
> >>
> >> @jordipalet
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>> escribi?:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest
> >> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy
> >> space.
> >>
> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal
> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things done.
> >> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are established,
> >> the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for
> >> their deeds.
> >>
> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover
> >> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active use,
> >> why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for the
> >> common good?
> >>
> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.
> >>
> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf of
> >> the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, with
> >> the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather
> >> apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for
> >> developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and
> >> intellect.
> >>
> >> Sunday.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
> >>
> >> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
> >> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and
> >> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
> >> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then
> >> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
> >> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes
> >> may not have the desired outcome.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
> >>
> >> Mark.
> >>
> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >>
> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >>
> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to
> >> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >>
> >> Sunday.
> >>
> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
> >> news story.
> >>
> >>
> >> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html>
> >>   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
> >> only
> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen
> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >>     Regards,
> >> rfg
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> --
> >> --------------------------------------------------
> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> >> Managing Director
> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng <mailto:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng>, sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------
> >> _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing
> >> list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> **********************************************
> >> IPv4 is over
> >> Are you ready for the new Internet ?
> >> http://www.theipv6company.com <http://www.theipv6company.com/>
> >> The IPv6 Company
> >>
> >> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or
> >> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of
> >> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized
> >> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
> >> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly
> >> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the
> >> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or
> >> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including
> >> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal
> >> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this
> >> communication and delete it.
> >>
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> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> URL: <
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/e007b6dd/attachment-0001.html <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/e007b6dd/attachment-0001.html>
> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 13
> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 10:16:03 +0100
> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>>
> >> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com <mailto:rfg at tristatelogic.com>>, General Discussions
> >>         of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com <mailto:4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> >>
> >> Dear Mr Guilmette,
> >>
> >> Regrettably, I do not monitor the press, but selected channels such as
> >> this list. It seems I got your attention, or you got my attention, or we
> >> both got each other's attention. Let us therefore maximize the possession.
> >>
> >> Important and interesting questions, that you have raised in this email.
> >> Let us put some punch in it. Kindly change the TO: field to
> >> ceo at afrinic.net <mailto:ceo at afrinic.net>, and cc the Community just to make sure it is not
> >> ignored, then resend it. I am sure the CEO will answer all the questions
> >> you here posed to me. Pity he has to start his tenure with these hard
> >> nuts and curveballs, but he is capable. He speaks for the Company, not me.
> >>
> >> I am equally sure that the Community appreciates the great work done,
> >> and no one supports the exposed fraud. You are a stakeholder, and not
> >> some casual bystander so please note this. What you conveniently
> >> ignored, is that the #1 accused company insider is the eye of the
> >> company on the policy lists, where you raised the issues.
> >>
> >> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should
> >> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more
> >> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking stakeholder.
> >> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.
> >>
> >> My use of the term "Whistleblowers" is appropriate, as I looked at one
> >> of your reference links, and indeed, someone confirmed to you privately
> >> that your hunch is right. If you do not claim the honour, they should,
> >> because you rightly built on their work!
> >>
> >> Great job you are doing.
> >>
> >> Have a great day.
> >>
> >> Sunday.
> >>
> >> On 05/12/2019 23:44, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> > In message <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com <mailto:4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>>,
> >> > Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal
> >> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
> >> >> done.
> >> > Mr. Folayan,
> >> >
> >> > These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,
> >> > 2019, a full three months ago.  Since that time there has not been a
> >> > single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,
> >> > or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague
> >> assurances
> >> > that these matters are being looked into.
> >> >
> >> > Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns
> >> > about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full
> >> > three years ago.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html <https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html>
> >> >
> >> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html <https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html>
> >> >      https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html>
> >> >
> >> > I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again
> >> > repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,
> >> > albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention
> >> > paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any
> >> > concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.
> >> >
> >> >      https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html <https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html>
> >> >      https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html <https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html>
> >> >      https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html <https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html>
> >> >
> >> > At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly
> >> > in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive
> >> > issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to
> >> > entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it
> >> > were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the
> >> > courageous reporting of MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/>.  Neither the board nor
> >> > the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any
> >> > clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will
> >> > either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders
> >> > and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive
> >> > any of the findings that it may reach.  And yet despite having had
> >> > either three full months or three full years to look into these
> >> > matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and
> >> > despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming
> >> > from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel patience.
> >> >
> >> > This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the
> >> > community's patience to come to an end?  Does the community have any
> >> > assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another
> >> > three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield
> >> > anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the
> >> > current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions
> >> > of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?
> >> >
> >> > On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at
> >> long
> >> > last be forthcoming?
> >> >
> >> >> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
> >> >> established, the law should take its course and people should stand
> >> >> accountable for their deeds.
> >> > This assertion on your part begs four further questions:
> >> >
> >> > 1)  Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been presented
> >> > in the MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/> article, the majority of which were drawn from
> >> > publicly available sources including open government records, what more
> >> > will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and
> >> intentions
> >> > are established"?  What parts of the abundant documentary evidence
> >> already
> >> > presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?
> >> >
> >> > 2)  If, as asserted in the MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/> article, it can be
> >> persuasively
> >> > demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in
> >> fact
> >> > purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that AFRINIC
> >> > itself is one of the aggrieved parties?  And if so, would you hope and
> >> > expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and
> >> > all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?
> >> >
> >> > 3)  Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and
> >> endemic
> >> > within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do
> >> you
> >> > have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all
> >> > likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?
> >> >
> >> > 4)  What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-
> >> > documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks from
> >> > AFRINIC's own free pool?  Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed
> >> by
> >> > AFRINIC?  Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever
> >> they
> >> > may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten booty
> >> > on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?
> >> >
> >> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
> >> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
> >> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to
> >> discover
> >> >> the manipulations.
> >> > On this point, you and I are in complete agreement.  "The system", such
> >> > as it is, is quite self-evidently broken.  But this raises the further
> >> > question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at
> >> AFRINIC,
> >> > while all of this was going on.  Is it even plausible that a single bad
> >> > actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars
> >> > worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a
> >> > several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC
> >> > staff even noticed any of this?
> >> >
> >> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
> >> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by
> >> now.
> >> > See above.  Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced with
> >> > respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself.  No other
> >> > single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much
> >> > valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself.  And yet we have, as yet, no
> >> > clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any staff
> >> > member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone
> >> > that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated
> >> > by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.
> >> >
> >> > If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new dictionary.
> >> >
> >> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
> >> >> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
> >> >> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
> >> >> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
> >> >> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of
> >> our
> >> >> time and intellect.
> >> > See above.  With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we
> >> > may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"?  I
> >> have
> >> > so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any
> >> > document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member of
> >> > AFRINIC.  In fact, quite the opposite.  I see that a purported three
> >> > month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth publicly
> >> > reporting on so far.  I see an attempt to shift the blame for this
> >> colossal
> >> > and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders
> >> > while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of
> >> > AFRINIC itself.  I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action
> >> > will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a
> >> > backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a general
> >> > disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific
> >> > national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.
> >> >
> >> > For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances misplaced,
> >> > Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.
> >> > The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and
> >> > to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or
> >> placed
> >> > under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to
> >> all.
> >> > AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding
> >> responsibility.
> >> >
> >> > I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and effectively
> >> > remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still ongoing
> >> > after-effects.  I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now
> >> > evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the
> >> carpet
> >> > will no longer be considered a vialble option.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> > rfg
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > P.S.  I must strenuously object to your use of the word "whistleblower"
> >> in
> >> > this context Mr. Folayan.  That term is usually used in reference to
> >> some
> >> > insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed
> >> > first-hand some malfeasance.  Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this
> >> > description.  Rather, we have labored as outsiders only.  We have not
> >> > been privy to any "inside" information.  Quite the opposite in fact.  We
> >> > have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable requests
> >> > for information by AFRINIC staff.
> >> >
> >> > Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our
> >> reasonable
> >> > requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.
> >> Exactly
> >> > such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four other
> >> > Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists
> >> upon
> >> > request.  When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such
> >> unredacted
> >> > WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were
> >> rejected
> >> > out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved
> >> policy
> >> > was cited as the basis for the denial.
> >> >
> >> > At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate
> >> explanation for
> >> > this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to be
> >> > granted at long last.  Certain portions of my research cannot be
> >> completed
> >> > without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved basis
> >> for
> >> > the rejection of such requests.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > P.P.S.  As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the
> >> > numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place.  I feel
> >> > compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively been
> >> > double-victimized in at least two specific instances.
> >> >
> >> > First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large IPv4
> >> > blocks "liberated" from its free pool.  Secondarily and even more
> >> insultingly
> >> > however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also
> >> arranged
> >> > to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be
> >> associated
> >> > with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other
> >> > legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired IPv4
> >> > allocations.
> >> >
> >> > I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy 168.80.0.0/15 <http://168.80.0.0/15>
> >> block,
> >> > registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the
> >> non-legacy
> >> > 196.16.0.0/14 <http://196.16.0.0/14> block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization.
> >> These
> >> > blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six
> >> million
> >> > U.S. dollars.
> >> >
> >> > As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD
> >> > mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as
> >> MEMBER-ONLY,
> >> > as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold any
> >> > actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees to
> >> > AFRINIC.
> >> >
> >> > I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in this
> >> > regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it
> >> does
> >> > appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have -both-
> >> > stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for years
> >> > on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be
> >> due
> >> > on these IPv4 assignments.
> >> >
> >> > Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further
> >> clarification
> >> > with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have been
> >> > collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned, for
> >> > any year since their allocation to and association with the
> >> organizations
> >> > noted.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >>
> >> --
> >> --------------------------------------------------
> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> >> Managing Director
> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng <mailto:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng>, sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 14
> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:07:01 -0800
> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com <mailto:rfg at tristatelogic.com>>
> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <21084.1575626821 at segfault.tristatelogic.com <mailto:21084.1575626821 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> Mr. Folayan,
> >>
> >> Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful response.
> >>
> >> At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and beyond
> >> what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.
> >>
> >>
> >> In message <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com <mailto:4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>>,
> >> Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> >I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should
> >> >conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more
> >> >honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking stakeholder.
> >> >It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.
> >>
> >> Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.
> >>
> >> Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to see
> >> the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC.  That is quite certainly not a
> >> goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as
> >> you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder
> >> should wish for.  AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global
> >> Internet governance.  I cannot even envision things as being otherwise.
> >> No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a
> >> few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second.  And to use an
> >> even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing
> >> smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more than
> >> I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the plains.
> >>
> >> If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was being
> >> formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested
> >> that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already
> >> sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it, being
> >> preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere.  Now I may stand on the comfortable
> >> shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but
> >> I do not question the utility of the journey.
> >>
> >> The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think, matters
> >> of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose.  Time will
> >> tell if that is an accurate assesment.
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> rfg
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 15
> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:14:31 +0100
> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>>
> >> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es <mailto:jordi.palet at consulintel.es>>, General
> >>         Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <8d06cf43-7c72-07df-e510-96917cd8e0ed at gmail.com <mailto:8d06cf43-7c72-07df-e510-96917cd8e0ed at gmail.com>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
> >>
> >> Good points Jordi, and thanks for the throwback on the very many amazing
> >> sacrifices we all made, to grow the Internet in Africa.
> >>
> >> I will resist asking Ernest to defend himself here, We are not
> >> constituted as a competent jury, neither do we want to compromise the
> >> ongoing investigations.
> >>
> >> Questions are appropriate, so will be his own admissions or rebuttals,
> >> when the investigations are completed.
> >>
> >> I may be wrong, but that is my own expectations and position.
> >>
> >> Sunday.
> >>
> >> On 06/12/2019 10:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hi Sunday, all,
> >> >
> >> > I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let
> >> > me tell why.
> >> >
> >> > I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My
> >> > first AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly
> >> > after, during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could
> >> > contribute to the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and
> >> > joining Ernest in his trips to do the Registration Services training
> >> > so I do IPv6 trainings.
> >> >
> >> > Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos,
> >> > I was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the
> >> > Madrid Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from
> >> > Sunday, I could resolve that on the next day and flight again to do
> >> > the training.
> >> >
> >> > My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that,
> >> > and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been
> >> > doing those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been
> >> > able to take advantage of that.
> >> >
> >> > The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as
> >> > well as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much
> >> > together, you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost
> >> > 15 years. Of course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a
> >> > hidden face. As humans, we all have positive and negative things. But
> >> > I?m really shocked, I still resist to believe it.
> >> >
> >> > I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the
> >> > position of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think
> >> > you will use your own name for registering companies, or instead you
> >> > will bribe someone, may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your
> >> > family name to appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly
> >> > and non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean
> >> > he is still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or
> >> > something similar.
> >> >
> >> > Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents.
> >> > If you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be enough.
> >> >
> >> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,
> >> > and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and
> >> > involvement an all this.
> >> >
> >> > Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal
> >> > interest. My only interest is to know the **real true** and I?m sure
> >> > everybody agrees on that.
> >> >
> >> > Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so
> >> > no doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very
> >> > thankful for that.
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> >
> >> > Jordi
> >> >
> >> > @jordipalet
> >> >
> >> > El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>
> >> > <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>>> escribi?:
> >> >
> >> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway
> >> > suggest that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only
> >> > on legacy space.
> >> >
> >> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal
> >> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
> >> > done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
> >> > established, the law should take its course and people should stand
> >> > accountable for their deeds.
> >> >
> >> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
> >> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of
> >> > 7 years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to
> >> > discover the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or
> >> > in active use, why would or should they not have been returned to the
> >> > Registry for the common good?
> >> >
> >> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their
> >> > legal department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with
> >> > gusto by now.
> >> >
> >> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
> >> > of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
> >> > with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
> >> > rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
> >> > available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of
> >> > our time and intellect.
> >> >
> >> > Sunday.
> >> >
> >> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
> >> >
> >> >     Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there
> >> >     appears to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy
> >> >     space.
> >> >
> >> >     I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the
> >> >     problem and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >> >
> >> >     It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
> >> >     space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
> >> >     mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
> >> >     legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then
> >> >     moving legacy space under those processes may not have the desired
> >> >     outcome.
> >> >
> >> >     Mike
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >         On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>
> >> >         <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>>> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >         Completely agree with Sunday.
> >> >
> >> >         Mark.
> >> >
> >> >         On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >> >
> >> >             Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically
> >> >             ancient squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet
> >> >             in Africa, AfriNIC Services and bringing legacy spaces
> >> >             under some form of RSA?
> >> >
> >> >             I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let
> >> >             us see how to help and empower the people doing useful
> >> >             work for Africa.
> >> >
> >> >             Thanks.
> >> >
> >> >             Sunday.
> >> >
> >> >             On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> >
> >> >                 I hope you all will take the time to read and think
> >> >                 about the following
> >> >                 news story.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html>
> >> >
> >> >                 ? I will have more to say about this in due course.?
> >> >                 For the moment, I only
> >> >                 wish to say that the investigation undertaken by
> >> >                 myself and Jan Vermeulen
> >> >                 is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >> >                 ? ? Regards,
> >> >                 rfg
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >                 _______________________________________________
> >> >                 Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >                 Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> >                 <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> >
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >         _______________________________________________
> >> >         Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >         Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> >         <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> >         https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >     _______________________________________________
> >> >
> >> >     Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >
> >> >     Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>  <mailto:
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> >
> >> >     https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > --------------------------------------------------
> >> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> >> > Managing Director
> >> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> >> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> >> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> >> > Email:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng <mailto:Email%3Asfolayan at skannet.com.ng>  <mailto:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng <mailto:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng>>,
> >> sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>  <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>>
> >> > ---------------------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss
> >> > mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > **********************************************
> >> > IPv4 is over
> >> > Are you ready for the new Internet ?
> >> > http://www.theipv6company.com <http://www.theipv6company.com/>
> >> > The IPv6 Company
> >> >
> >> > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged
> >> > or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive
> >> > use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty
> >> > authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of
> >> > this information, even if partially, including attached files, is
> >> > strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you
> >> > are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying,
> >> > distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if
> >> > partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be
> >> > considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original
> >> > sender to inform about this communication and delete it.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >>
> >> --
> >> --------------------------------------------------
> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> >> Managing Director
> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng <mailto:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng>, sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> URL: <
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/8c6c63d5/attachment-0001.html <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/8c6c63d5/attachment-0001.html>
> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 16
> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 12:17:52 +0200
> >> From: Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net <mailto:Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>>
> >> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es <mailto:jordi.palet at consulintel.es>>
> >> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net <mailto:14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > On 6 Dec 2019, at 11:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss <
> >> community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,
> >> and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and
> >> involvement an all this.
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> :-)  Might as well setup a confession booth and provide absolution of
> >> souls.  On a serious note, we need a proper investigation.  Let?s wait to
> >> hear from the CEO
> >>
> >> Omo
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/4e0f75fc/attachment-0001.html <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/4e0f75fc/attachment-0001.html>
> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 17
> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:21:40 +0100
> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>>
> >> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com <mailto:rfg at tristatelogic.com>>, General Discussions
> >>         of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <c071ab53-ba47-a98a-8e28-d97187ae8c10 at gmail.com <mailto:c071ab53-ba47-a98a-8e28-d97187ae8c10 at gmail.com>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> >>
> >> Dear Mr Guilmette,
> >>
> >> On 06/12/2019 11:07, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> > Mr. Folayan,
> >> >
> >> > Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful
> >> response.
> >> >
> >> > At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and beyond
> >> > what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > In message <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com <mailto:4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>>,
> >> > Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should
> >> >> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more
> >> >> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking
> >> stakeholder.
> >> >> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.
> >> > Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.
> >> >
> >> > Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to see
> >> > the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC.  That is quite certainly not a
> >> > goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as
> >> > you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder
> >> > should wish for.  AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global
> >> > Internet governance.  I cannot even envision things as being otherwise.
> >> > No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a
> >> > few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second.  And to use an
> >> > even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing
> >> > smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more than
> >> > I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the plains.
> >> >
> >> > If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was being
> >> > formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested
> >> > that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already
> >> > sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it, being
> >> > preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere.  Now I may stand on the comfortable
> >> > shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but
> >> > I do not question the utility of the journey.
> >> >
> >> > The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think, matters
> >> > of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose.  Time will
> >> > tell if that is an accurate assesment.
> >>
> >>
> >> This is most assuring and comforting at the same time.
> >>
> >> If I have sounded off-key, please accept my sincere apologies, and thank
> >> you very much for the good job you have done for the community so far.
> >> History will never forget your role and progressive disposition at this
> >> point in time.
> >>
> >> When AfriNIC was being formed, the challenges of today, were not
> >> envisioned in the very many ways that they now present themselves.
> >> Africa has come a long way. Unfortunately, there are still many more
> >> oceans to cross, but we will all band together as a purposeful fleet.
> >> That is how we can all weather the storms that may come, but sure they
> >> will come.
> >>
> >> With kind Regards ...
> >>
> >> Sunday.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 18
> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:58:27 -0800
> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com <mailto:rfg at tristatelogic.com>>
> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <21283.1575629907 at segfault.tristatelogic.com <mailto:21283.1575629907 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> In message <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es <mailto:79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es>>,
> >> JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es <mailto:jordi.palet at consulintel.es>> wrote:
> >>
> >> >I also believe that he is a smart guy.
> >>
> >> I would not dispute that characterization in the slightest.
> >>
> >> >So, put yourself in the position of
> >> >a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use
> >> your o
> >> >wn name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe
> >> someone,=C2=A0
> >> > may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to appear in
> >> an
> >> >y documents? I feel this is really silly and non-understandable.
> >>
> >> And yet it seemed to work, for years on end, with no one raising so much
> >> as an eyebrow because nobody seriously investigated or seriously looked
> >> at all of the relevant corporate documents and WHOIS records and, in
> >> particular, the historical WHOIS records, including but not limited to
> >> these ones:
> >>
> >> ORG-AI2-AFRINIC     https://pastebin.com/raw/7rqfP1LD <https://pastebin.com/raw/7rqfP1LD>
> >> ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC   https://pastebin.com/raw/Nx79QkgB <https://pastebin.com/raw/Nx79QkgB>
> >> ORG-IA41-AFRINIC    https://pastebin.com/raw/ynEXMyCP <https://pastebin.com/raw/ynEXMyCP>
> >> ORG-ZZ139-AFRINIC   https://pastebin.com/raw/GX5egcbW <https://pastebin.com/raw/GX5egcbW>
> >> ORG-ZZ23-AFRINIC    https://pastebin.com/raw/Yu8K9z6N <https://pastebin.com/raw/Yu8K9z6N>
> >>
> >> I have been chasing down miscreants on the Internet for more than 20 years
> >> now.  One of the lessons I have learned in that time is that none of them
> >> are ten feet tall, and the majority of them absolutely suck at OPSEC.  It
> >> is almost as if some part of them is deluding their own brains into the
> >> false belief that what they are doing is not really wrong, in some
> >> sense, and that they are somehow actually entitled to the stuff they are
> >> stealing, and that thus, at some level, they don't actually need to hide
> >> what they are doing all that throughly, because just as White House Chief
> >> of Staff Mick Mulvaney did not long ago... much to the shock of
> >> everyone...
> >> if they are ever caught and confronted they assume that they will just say
> >> "Yea.  So?  We do that all of the time.  Get over it!"
> >>
> >> >So maybe
> >> >somebody used him, which doesn=E2=80=99t mean he is still guilty
> >> =E2=80=9Cin
> >> >vigilando=E2=80=9D because he trusted anyone else, or something similar.
> >>
> >> It's a nice thought, and you are a generous person to allow this
> >> possibility
> >> Jordi.  All I can say is that other information, not yet made public,
> >> appears to rule out the possibility that Mr. Byaruhanga was either an
> >> unwitting stooge or a convenient fall guy.
> >>
> >> >Do we believe in =E2=80=9Cpresumption of innocence=E2=80=9D? I do,
> >> despite
> >> >documents. If you don=E2=80=99t know the complete background, documents
> >> may
> >> >not be enough.
> >>
> >> I agree.
> >>
> >> That having been said, I hope that you will, as I have, spend some time
> >> carefully scrutinizing both the current and historical WHOIS records
> >> associated with the ORGanizations and the IPv4 blocks listed in the two
> >> tables in Jan's article.  If you do that, I think that you will be, as
> >> I was, hard pressed to explain all of the quite glaring anomalies in
> >> any way that does not involve a great deal of very deliberate malfesance
> >> on somebody's part.  Once you are convinced of that, then the question
> >> becomes:  Who is responsible?  And it is at that point that the various
> >> official governmental corporate registration records would seem to become
> >> very relevant.
> >>
> >> >So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation, and
> >> >may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and
> >> involvement
> >> >an all this.
> >>
> >> I would like to echo that sentiment.
> >>
> >> Jan Vermeulen and myself have tried, repeatedly, and over some significant
> >> time now to reach him, both via voice, at a number of different phone
> >> numbers
> >> that we have identified as being associated with him, and also via email,
> >> at various of his known email addresses, and we have been utterly unable
> >> to
> >> do so.  We both very much look forward to speaking with him and getting
> >> his
> >> side of the story, if he has one.
> >>
> >> That having been said, we cannot be blamed, I think, for reaching certain
> >> reasonable conclusions when Jan's industry sources informed him, less than
> >> a day after I had attempted to confront Ernest, via email, with the facts
> >> arrayed against him, that he had abruptly resigned his position at AFRINIC
> >> after 15 years on the job.
> >>
> >> His abrupt resignation was and remains his only apparent response to our
> >> inquiries.
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> rfg
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 19
> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 03:16:57 -0800
> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com <mailto:rfg at tristatelogic.com>>
> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <21648.1575631017 at segfault.tristatelogic.com <mailto:21648.1575631017 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> In message <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net <mailto:14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net>>,
> >> Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net <mailto:Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On a serious note, we need a proper investigation.  Let's
> >> >wait to hear from the CEO
> >>
> >> Have any of us been doing otherwise, for lo these past three months now?
> >>
> >> Have we been afforded any other choice in the matter?
> >>
> >> Can AFRINIC clean its own stables?
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> rfg
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Subject: Digest Footer
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> End of Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1
> >> *************************************************
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > *Ogundele Olumuyiwa Caleb*
> > *muyiwacaleb at gmail.com <mailto:muyiwacaleb at gmail.com> <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com <mailto:muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>>*
> > *234 - 8077377378*
> > *234 - 07030777969*
> > _______________________________________________
> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2019 13:56:27 +0000
> From: Arnaud AMELINA <amelnaud at gmail.com <mailto:amelnaud at gmail.com>>
> To: Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com <mailto:owen at delong.com>>
> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>,
>         Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com <mailto:muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547,
>         Issue 1
> Message-ID:
>         <CAGDMR_cw7qBFFC=jd60noD=DPAgiPwY1ozQCaG77Ax29ELZikA at mail.gmail.com <mailto:DPAgiPwY1ozQCaG77Ax29ELZikA at mail.gmail.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Hi Community,
> 
> Policy or not, will not prevent AFRINIC  from reviewing resources if
> complaints  provide enough evidences.  We  just saw allegations/complaints
> in press which trigger reviews.
> The review policy proposal is intended to provide community approved ways
> of reviews  for fairness, transparency. Lack of community approved review
> policy may have led to media complaint induced review.
> 
> Regards
> 
> --
> Arnaud
> 
> Le dim. 8 d?c. 2019 ? 18:50, Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com <mailto:owen at delong.com>> a ?crit :
> 
> >
> >
> > policy or not will not prevent afrinic  from reviewing resources if
> > complaints  provide enough evidences.  We  just saw allegations/complaints
> > in press which trigger reviews.
> >
> > The review policy proposal is intended to provide community approved ways
> > of reviews  for fairness, transparency. Lack of community approved review
> > policy may have led to media complaint induced reviewOn Dec 6, 2019, at
> > 07:46 , Caleb Olumuyiwa Ogundele <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com <mailto:muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Ronald,
> >
> > So I read where this comment below was attributed to you.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *>?Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our
> > reasonable> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS
> > database.  Exactly> such unredacted database dumps *are* provided by all of
> > the four other> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and
> > journalists upon> request.  When we submitted repeated requests for exactly
> > such unredacted> WHOIS database dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our
> > requests were rejected> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any
> > community-approved policy> was cited as the basis for the denial.?*
> > While not taking brief for AFRINIC or any of its staff, I feel you should
> > know that AFRINIC?s operation is also being governed by Mauritius data
> > protection law.
> > Mauritius regulates data protection under the Data Protection Act 2017
> > (DPA 2017 or Act), proclaimed through Proclamation No. 3 of 2018, effective
> > January 15, 2018. The Act repeals and replaces the Data Protection Act
> > 2004, so as to align with the European Union General Data Protection
> > Regulation 2016/679 (GDPR).
> >
> > Even if you are not familiar with Mauritius law, the EU GDPR which is more
> > popular should tell you the implication of revealing a WHOIS database to a
> > non-state prosecutorial actor like yourself who does not have a court
> > warrant to see the redacted sections you seek. Please correct me if I?m
> > wrong in my legal analysis of your request.
> >
> >
> > Whois is data that is published generally, so your comments here about DPR
> > don?t really apply.
> >
> > Such WHOIS dumps are available from RIPE, so I don?t think it is a GDPR
> > issue at all.
> >
> > Perhaps, isn?t it time for the community to revisit the Internet Number
> > Resources review policy
> > <https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal <https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal>> which was not
> > on the docket for policy at this just-concluded meeting?
> > https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal <https://www.afrinic.net/policy/2016-gen-001-d5#proposal>
> >
> >
> > No? The resource review policy would do absolutely nothing to help here.
> >
> > We might be doing something right this time if that policy will allow for
> > a diligent review of resources including the legacy ones.
> >
> >
> > That policy does not provide for any review that AfriNIC cannot currently
> > do. All it does is provide a vector for a unique form of Denial Of Service
> > attack against larger organizations in the form of a complaint-induced
> > resource review.
> >
> > Let us please not conflate this issue with an utterly and completely
> > unrelated policy effort aimed at weaponizing AfriNIC to allow one subset of
> > the membership to attack another.
> >
> > Owen
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Caleb Ogundele
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 6, 2019 at 12:17 PM <community-discuss-request at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss-request at afrinic.net>>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to
> >>         community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >>
> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >>         https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >>         community-discuss-request at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss-request at afrinic.net>
> >>
> >> You can reach the person managing the list at
> >>         community-discuss-owner at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss-owner at afrinic.net>
> >>
> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> >> than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..."
> >>
> >>
> >> Today's Topics:
> >>
> >>    1. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)
> >>    2. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mike Silber)
> >>    3. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Elkins)
> >>    4. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Andrew Alston)
> >>    5. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Mark Tinka)
> >>    6. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
> >>    7. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)
> >>    8. [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC (Sylvain Baya)
> >>    9. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Isabel Odida)
> >>   10. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
> >>   11. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
> >>   12. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)
> >>   13. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
> >>   14. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
> >>   15. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
> >>   16. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Omo Oaiya)
> >>   17. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Sunday Folayan)
> >>   18. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
> >>   19. Re: The Looting of AFRINIC (Ronald F. Guilmette)
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 1
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:27:42 +0200
> >> From: Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>>
> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16 at seacom.mu <mailto:9e59c2ca-8782-ed40-968b-15e90dd79a16 at seacom.mu>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >>
> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
> >>
> >> Mark.
> >>
> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >> >
> >> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how
> >> > to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks.
> >> >
> >> > Sunday.
> >> >
> >> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
> >> >> news story.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html>
> >> >>
> >> >> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the moment,
> >> >> I only
> >> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> >> >> Vermeulen
> >> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >> >> ? ? Regards,
> >> >> rfg
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> >>
> >>
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> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 2
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:46:15 +0200
> >> From: Mike Silber <silber.mike at gmail.com <mailto:silber.mike at gmail.com>>
> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3 at gmail.com <mailto:2276C796-D9B8-4E4B-8666-15F9B0DC5FC3 at gmail.com>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
> >> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >>
> >> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and
> >> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >>
> >> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
> >> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then
> >> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
> >> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes
> >> may not have the desired outcome.
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Completely agree with Sunday.
> >> >
> >> > Mark.
> >> >
> >> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >> >>
> >> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how
> >> to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >> >>
> >> >> Thanks.
> >> >>
> >> >> Sunday.
> >> >>
> >> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> >>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
> >> following
> >> >>> news story.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html>
> >> <
> >> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html>>
> >>
> >> >>>   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment,
> >> I only
> >> >>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> >> Vermeulen
> >> >>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >> >>>     Regards,
> >> >>> rfg
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net> <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss> <
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>>
> >> >>>
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >>
> >> -------------- next part --------------
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> >> URL: <
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/1d4a9dec/attachment-0001.html <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/1d4a9dec/attachment-0001.html>
> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 3
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 14:59:57 +0200
> >> From: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>>
> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <007bb014-4eb8-157f-5312-f8333782f32f at posix.co.za <mailto:007bb014-4eb8-157f-5312-f8333782f32f at posix.co.za>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
> >>
> >> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to
> >> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case (looting
> >> of non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.
> >>
> >> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
> >> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >> >
> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
> >> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >> >
> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
> >> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
> >> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
> >> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving
> >> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.
> >> >
> >> > Mike
> >> >
> >> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>
> >> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>>> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
> >> >>
> >> >> Mark.
> >> >>
> >> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see
> >> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Thanks.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Sunday.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
> >> >>>> following
> >> >>>> news story.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the
> >> >>>> moment, I only
> >> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> >> >>>> Vermeulen
> >> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >> >>>> ? ? Regards,
> >> >>>> rfg
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net> <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Mark James ELKINS? -? Posix Systems - (South) Africa
> >> mje at posix.co.za?? <http://mje at posix.co.za/??>?? <http://mje at posix.co.za/??? <http://mje at posix.co.za/???>?>?? Tel: +27.826010496 <
> >> tel:+27826010496 <+27826010496>>
> >> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za <https://ftth.posix.co.za/>
> >>
> >> Posix SystemsVCARD for MJ Elkins
> >>
> >> -------------- next part --------------
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> >> >
> >> -------------- next part --------------
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> >> Size: 6410 bytes
> >> Desc: not available
> >> URL: <
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/3b4bf35e/attachment-0001.jpg <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/3b4bf35e/attachment-0001.jpg>
> >> >
> >> -------------- next part --------------
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> >> URL: <
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> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 4
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 13:10:48 +0000
> >> From: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com <mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>>
> >> To: "mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>" <mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>>,
> >>         "community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>" <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID:
> >>         <
> >> DBBPR03MB5415D6F757C9E3BD1AE2CDE4EE5C0 at DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com <mailto:DBBPR03MB5415D6F757C9E3BD1AE2CDE4EE5C0 at DBBPR03MB5415.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
> >> >
> >>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> >>
> >> I would be very curious to hear from a legal perspective what - if any -
> >> legal liability AfriNIC has in a situation like this.
> >>
> >> The fact is - space has value - and if space is stolen - used for spam or
> >> whatever else - and the reputation of said space is damaged - it?s value
> >> decreases.  Now I fully realize that space can be hijacked - and at that
> >> point potentially the hijackers may hold the liability. However - when the
> >> space seems to have been stolen and sold off by a staff member of the
> >> organization that is meant in effect to the curator of the space - I
> >> question if there is not a liability issue at play if it can be proven that
> >> due care was not taken to safe guard against the actions taken.
> >>
> >> I?m no lawyer though so I would really be interested to know the legal
> >> perspective - can an rir be held liable to the actions of its staff if it
> >> did not adequately protect against the actions taken.
> >>
> >> Andrew
> >>
> >> Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>>
> >> Sent: Thursday, December 5, 2019 3:59:57 PM
> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net> <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >>
> >>
> >> Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to
> >> manipulate the non-legacy space - yet it happened. In this case (looting of
> >> non-legacy space), the RSA has meant nothing.
> >>
> >> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
> >> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
> >> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >>
> >> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and
> >> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >>
> >> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
> >> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then
> >> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
> >> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes
> >> may not have the desired outcome.
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu><mailto:
> >> mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>>> wrote:
> >>
> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
> >>
> >> Mark.
> >>
> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >>
> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to
> >> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >>
> >> Sunday.
> >>
> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
> >> news story.
> >>
> >>
> >> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html>
> >> <
> >> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html>
> >> >
> >>   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
> >> only
> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen
> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >>     Regards,
> >> rfg
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net><mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss><
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net><mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss><
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net><mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss><
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
> >> mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za><mailto:mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>>       Tel: +27.826010496<
> >> tel:+27826010496 <+27826010496>>
> >> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za <https://ftth.posix.co.za/><
> >> https://ftth.posix.co.za <https://ftth.posix.co.za/>>
> >>
> >> [Posix            Systems][VCARD for            MJ Elkins]
> >> -------------- next part --------------
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> >> >
> >> -------------- next part --------------
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> >> Size: 6410 bytes
> >> Desc: abessive_logo.jpg
> >> URL: <
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/24fff2bc/attachment-0001.jpg <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/24fff2bc/attachment-0001.jpg>
> >> >
> >> -------------- next part --------------
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> >> Type: image/png
> >> Size: 2163 bytes
> >> Desc: QR-MJElkins.png
> >> URL: <
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/24fff2bc/attachment-0001.png <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/24fff2bc/attachment-0001.png>
> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 5
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 15:11:04 +0200
> >> From: Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>>
> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <7fa06e69-5728-f936-ce1d-f471893ccc17 at seacom.mu <mailto:7fa06e69-5728-f936-ce1d-f471893ccc17 at seacom.mu>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >>
> >> I don't disagree with that either.
> >>
> >> I am certain AFRINIC are working on this, and I know there will be no
> >> shortage of queries about this from the field, much to our
> >> already-clogged e-mail boxes. I don't want to do the jobs of others; no
> >> one is doing mine for me.
> >>
> >> My preferred current focus - your last paragraph, below.
> >>
> >> Mark.
> >>
> >> On 5/Dec/19 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
> >> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >> >
> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
> >> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >> >
> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
> >> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
> >> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
> >> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving
> >> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.?
> >> >
> >> > Mike
> >> >
> >> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>
> >> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>>> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
> >> >>
> >> >> Mark.
> >> >>
> >> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see
> >> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Thanks.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Sunday.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
> >> >>>> following
> >> >>>> news story.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the
> >> >>>> moment, I only
> >> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> >> >>>> Vermeulen
> >> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >> >>>> ? ? Regards,
> >> >>>> rfg
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net> <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> >
> >>
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> URL: <
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/c8c491fa/attachment-0001.html <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/c8c491fa/attachment-0001.html>
> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 6
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 19:54:21 +0100
> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>>
> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com <mailto:4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"
> >>
> >> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest
> >> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy
> >> space.
> >>
> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal
> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
> >> done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
> >> established, the law should take its course and people should stand
> >> accountable for their deeds.
> >>
> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover
> >> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active
> >> use, why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for
> >> the common good?
> >>
> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.
> >>
> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
> >> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
> >> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
> >> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
> >> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our
> >> time and intellect.
> >>
> >> Sunday.
> >>
> >> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears
> >> > to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >> >
> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
> >> > and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >> >
> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
> >> > space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
> >> > mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
> >> > legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then moving
> >> > legacy space under those processes may not have the desired outcome.
> >> >
> >> > Mike
> >> >
> >> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>
> >> >> <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>>> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
> >> >>
> >> >> Mark.
> >> >>
> >> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >> >>> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >> >>> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >> >>> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see
> >> >>> how to help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Thanks.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Sunday.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> >>>> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the
> >> >>>> following
> >> >>>> news story.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> ? I will have more to say about this in due course.? For the
> >> >>>> moment, I only
> >> >>>> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> >> >>>> Vermeulen
> >> >>>> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >> >>>> ? ? Regards,
> >> >>>> rfg
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >> >>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net> <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >>
> >> --
> >> --------------------------------------------------
> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> >> Managing Director
> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng <mailto:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng>, sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> URL: <
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/118317f5/attachment-0001.html <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/118317f5/attachment-0001.html>
> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 7
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:15:59 +0200
> >> From: Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net <mailto:Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>>
> >> To: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>>
> >> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID:
> >>         <CAG1eoi3w-F2Ui-BfiKmBqYJ=
> >> srHdvBJx2F5vS2k__asGCVTwVw at mail.gmail.com <mailto:srHdvBJx2F5vS2k__asGCVTwVw at mail.gmail.com>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >>
> >> I have to agree with this. As shocking and disappointing as the
> >> revelations
> >> might be, this makes the most sense to me.
> >>
> >> Omo
> >>
> >> On Thu, 5 Dec 2019, 20:56 Sunday Folayan, <sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest
> >> > that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy
> >> > space.
> >> >
> >> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal
> >> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
> >> done.
> >> > I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
> >> established,
> >> > the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for
> >> > their deeds.
> >> >
> >> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
> >> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
> >> > years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover
> >> > the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active
> >> use,
> >> > why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for the
> >> > common good?
> >> >
> >> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
> >> > department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by
> >> now.
> >> >
> >> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
> >> of
> >> > the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, with
> >> > the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather
> >> > apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for
> >> > developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and
> >> > intellect.
> >> > Sunday.
> >> >
> >> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
> >> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >> >
> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
> >> and
> >> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >> >
> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
> >> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and
> >> then
> >> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
> >> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those
> >> processes
> >> > may not have the desired outcome.
> >> >
> >> > Mike
> >> >
> >> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Completely agree with Sunday.
> >> >
> >> > Mark.
> >> >
> >> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >> >
> >> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to
> >> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks.
> >> >
> >> > Sunday.
> >> >
> >> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
> >> > news story.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html>
> >> >   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
> >> > only
> >> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> >> Vermeulen
> >> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >> >     Regards,
> >> > rfg
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://
> >> lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <http://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > --------------------------------------------------
> >> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> >> > Managing Director
> >> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> >> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> >> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> >> > Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng <mailto:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng>, sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>
> >> > ---------------------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> >
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> URL: <
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/582fac38/attachment-0001.html <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/582fac38/attachment-0001.html>
> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 8
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 21:28:06 +0100
> >> From: Sylvain Baya <abscoco at gmail.com <mailto:abscoco at gmail.com>>
> >> To: "mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>" <mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>>,
> >>         "community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>" <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> Subject: [Community-Discuss] [afnog] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID:
> >>         <
> >> CAJjTEvE+sHgdAsJUO4D1pYe1eEwCk6WEMosvhknZqS+AwyF6Kg at mail.gmail.com <mailto:CAJjTEvE%2BsHgdAsJUO4D1pYe1eEwCk6WEMosvhknZqS%2BAwyF6Kg at mail.gmail.com>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >>
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> Le jeudi 5 d?cembre 2019, Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>> a ?crit :
> >>
> >> > Totally agree with you Mike. It should have been almost impossible to
> >> > manipulate the non-legacy space -
> >> >
> >>
> >> Dear Mark,
> >> ...i agree !
> >>
> >> yet it happened. In this case (looting of non-legacy space), the RSA has
> >> > meant nothing.
> >> >
> >>
> >> As you say, i take you on words ; then if the RSA (Registration Service
> >> Agreement) could
> >> easily be bypassed, how to deal with our 'emerged' problem ?
> >>
> >> ...perhaps time to seriously reconsider the long life DPP (Draft Policy
> >> Proposal) [1] ?
> >> __
> >> [1]: <https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2016-gen-001-d8/amp <https://afrinic.net/policy/proposals/2016-gen-001-d8/amp>>
> >>
> >> Shalom,
> >> --sb.
> >>
> >> On 2019/12/05 14:46, Mike Silber wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
> >> > have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >> >
> >> > I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem
> >> and
> >> > not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >> >
> >> > It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
> >> > that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and
> >> then
> >> > turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
> >> > processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those
> >> processes
> >> > may not have the desired outcome.
> >> >
> >> > Mike
> >> >
> >> > On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Completely agree with Sunday.
> >> >
> >> > Mark.
> >> >
> >> > On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >> > squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >> > Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >> >
> >> > I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to
> >> > help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks.
> >> >
> >> > Sunday.
> >> >
> >> > On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
> >> > news story.
> >> >
> >> > https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet- <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet->
> >> >
> >> resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html
> >> >   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
> >> > only
> >> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> >> Vermeulen
> >> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >> >     Regards,
> >> > rfg
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://
> >> lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <http://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> >
> >> > Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
> >> > mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>       Tel: +27.826010496 <+27826010496>
> >> > For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za <https://ftth.posix.co.za/>
> >> >
> >> > [image: Posix Systems][image: VCARD for MJ Elkins]
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> --
> >> Best Regards !
> >> baya.sylvain [AT cmNOG DOT cm] | <https://www.cmnog.cm <https://www.cmnog.cm/>> | <
> >> https://survey.cmnog.cm <https://survey.cmnog.cm/>>
> >> Subscribe to Mailing List : <
> >> https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/ <https://lists.cmnog.cm/mailman/listinfo/cmnog/>>
> >> __
> >> #?LASAINTEBIBLE?|?#?Romains15?:33?*Que LE ?#?DIEU? de ?#?Paix? soit avec
> >> vous tous! ?#?Amen?!*?
> >> ?#?MaPri?re? est que tu naisses de nouveau. #Chr?tiennement?
> >> ?*Comme une biche soupire apr?s des courants d?eau, ainsi mon ?me soupire
> >> apr?s TOI, ? DIEU!*? (#Psaumes42:2)
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> URL: <
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/63b5ef24/attachment-0001.html <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191205/63b5ef24/attachment-0001.html>
> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 9
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Dec 2019 23:43:48 +0100
> >> From: Isabel Odida <isabel.odida at gmail.com <mailto:isabel.odida at gmail.com>>
> >> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com <mailto:rfg at tristatelogic.com>>
> >> Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com <mailto:6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=us-ascii
> >>
> >> I know what sparked this story. Some people have no chill. How convenient
> >> following the last meeting in June. Ok, and then what? What have you
> >> benefited?
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> > On 4 Dec 2019, at 18:23, Ronald F. Guilmette <rfg at tristatelogic.com <mailto:rfg at tristatelogic.com>>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
> >> > news story.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html>
> >> >
> >> > I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
> >> only
> >> > wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan
> >> Vermeulen
> >> > is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> > rfg
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 10
> >> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 14:44:58 -0800
> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com <mailto:rfg at tristatelogic.com>>
> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <18818.1575585898 at segfault.tristatelogic.com <mailto:18818.1575585898 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> In message <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com <mailto:4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>>,
> >> Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> >The community has been informed that there is already some internal
> >> >investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
> >> >done.
> >>
> >> Mr. Folayan,
> >>
> >> These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,
> >> 2019, a full three months ago.  Since that time there has not been a
> >> single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,
> >> or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague assurances
> >> that these matters are being looked into.
> >>
> >> Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns
> >> about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full
> >> three years ago.
> >>
> >>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html <https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html>
> >>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html <https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html>
> >>     https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html>
> >>
> >> I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again
> >> repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,
> >> albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention
> >> paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any
> >> concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.
> >>
> >>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html <https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html>
> >>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html <https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html>
> >>     https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html <https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html>
> >>
> >> At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly
> >> in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive
> >> issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to
> >> entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it
> >> were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the
> >> courageous reporting of MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/> <http://mybroadband.co.za/ <http://mybroadband.co.za/>>.
> >> Neither the board nor
> >> the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any
> >> clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will
> >> either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders
> >> and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive
> >> any of the findings that it may reach.  And yet despite having had
> >> either three full months or three full years to look into these
> >> matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and
> >> despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming
> >> from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel patience.
> >>
> >> This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the
> >> community's patience to come to an end?  Does the community have any
> >> assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another
> >> three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield
> >> anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the
> >> current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions
> >> of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?
> >>
> >> On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at long
> >> last be forthcoming?
> >>
> >> >I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
> >> >established, the law should take its course and people should stand
> >> >accountable for their deeds.
> >>
> >> This assertion on your part begs four further questions:
> >>
> >> 1)  Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been presented
> >> in the MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/> <http://mybroadband.co.za/ <http://mybroadband.co.za/>> article, the
> >> majority of which were drawn from
> >> publicly available sources including open government records, what more
> >> will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and intentions
> >> are established"?  What parts of the abundant documentary evidence already
> >> presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?
> >>
> >> 2)  If, as asserted in the MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/> <http://mybroadband.co.za/ <http://mybroadband.co.za/>>
> >> article, it can be persuasively
> >> demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in fact
> >> purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that AFRINIC
> >> itself is one of the aggrieved parties?  And if so, would you hope and
> >> expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and
> >> all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?
> >>
> >> 3)  Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and
> >> endemic
> >> within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do you
> >> have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all
> >> likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?
> >>
> >> 4)  What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-
> >> documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks from
> >> AFRINIC's own free pool?  Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed by
> >> AFRINIC?  Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever they
> >> may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten booty
> >> on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?
> >>
> >> >I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
> >> >organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
> >> >years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover
> >> >the manipulations.
> >>
> >> On this point, you and I are in complete agreement.  "The system", such
> >> as it is, is quite self-evidently broken.  But this raises the further
> >> question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at
> >> AFRINIC,
> >> while all of this was going on.  Is it even plausible that a single bad
> >> actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars
> >> worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a
> >> several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC
> >> staff even noticed any of this?
> >>
> >> >For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
> >> >department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by
> >> now.
> >>
> >> See above.  Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced with
> >> respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself.  No other
> >> single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much
> >> valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself.  And yet we have, as yet, no
> >> clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any staff
> >> member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone
> >> that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated
> >> by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.
> >>
> >> If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new dictionary.
> >>
> >> >While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
> >> >of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
> >> >with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
> >> >rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
> >> >available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of our
> >> >time and intellect.
> >>
> >> See above.  With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we
> >> may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"?  I have
> >> so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any
> >> document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member of
> >> AFRINIC.  In fact, quite the opposite.  I see that a purported three
> >> month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth publicly
> >> reporting on so far.  I see an attempt to shift the blame for this
> >> colossal
> >> and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders
> >> while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of
> >> AFRINIC itself.  I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action
> >> will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a
> >> backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a general
> >> disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific
> >> national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.
> >>
> >> For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances misplaced,
> >> Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.
> >> The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and
> >> to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or
> >> placed
> >> under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to all.
> >> AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding
> >> responsibility.
> >>
> >> I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and effectively
> >> remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still ongoing
> >> after-effects.  I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now
> >> evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the carpet
> >> will no longer be considered a vialble option.
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> rfg
> >>
> >>
> >> P.S.  I must strenuously object to your use of the word "whistleblower" in
> >> this context Mr. Folayan.  That term is usually used in reference to some
> >> insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed
> >> first-hand some malfeasance.  Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this
> >> description.  Rather, we have labored as outsiders only.  We have not
> >> been privy to any "inside" information.  Quite the opposite in fact.  We
> >> have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable requests
> >> for information by AFRINIC staff.
> >>
> >> Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our
> >> reasonable
> >> requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.
> >> Exactly
> >> such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four other
> >> Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists upon
> >> request.  When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such unredacted
> >> WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were rejected
> >> out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved policy
> >> was cited as the basis for the denial.
> >>
> >> At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate explanation
> >> for
> >> this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to be
> >> granted at long last.  Certain portions of my research cannot be completed
> >> without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved basis
> >> for
> >> the rejection of such requests.
> >>
> >>
> >> P.P.S.  As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the
> >> numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place.  I feel
> >> compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively been
> >> double-victimized in at least two specific instances.
> >>
> >> First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large IPv4
> >> blocks "liberated" from its free pool.  Secondarily and even more
> >> insultingly
> >> however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also
> >> arranged
> >> to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be associated
> >> with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other
> >> legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired IPv4
> >> allocations.
> >>
> >> I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy 168.80.0.0/15 <http://168.80.0.0/15> block,
> >> registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the
> >> non-legacy
> >> 196.16.0.0/14 <http://196.16.0.0/14> block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization.
> >> These
> >> blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six million
> >> U.S. dollars.
> >>
> >> As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD
> >> mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as MEMBER-ONLY,
> >> as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold any
> >> actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees to
> >> AFRINIC.
> >>
> >> I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in this
> >> regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it does
> >> appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have -both-
> >> stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for years
> >> on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be due
> >> on these IPv4 assignments.
> >>
> >> Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further
> >> clarification
> >> with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have been
> >> collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned, for
> >> any year since their allocation to and association with the organizations
> >> noted.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 11
> >> Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2019 17:24:26 -0800
> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com <mailto:rfg at tristatelogic.com>>
> >> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <19435.1575595466 at segfault.tristatelogic.com <mailto:19435.1575595466 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> In message <6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com <mailto:6FBC0020-6EE7-4E6B-8573-AC5AA52B972D at gmail.com>>,
> >> Isabel Odida <isabel.odida at gmail.com <mailto:isabel.odida at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> >I know what sparked this story.
> >>
> >> If you have something to say, then you have our attention and the floor.
> >> Please proceed.
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> rfg
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 12
> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 10:04:06 +0100
> >> From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es <mailto:jordi.palet at consulintel.es>>
> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es <mailto:79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >>
> >> Hi Sunday, all,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let me
> >> tell why.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My first
> >> AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly after,
> >> during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could contribute to
> >> the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and joining Ernest in his
> >> trips to do the Registration Services training so I do IPv6 trainings.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos, I
> >> was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the Madrid
> >> Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from Sunday, I could
> >> resolve that on the next day and flight again to do the training.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that,
> >> and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been doing
> >> those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been able to take
> >> advantage of that.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as well
> >> as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much together,
> >> you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost 15 years. Of
> >> course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a hidden face. As
> >> humans, we all have positive and negative things. But I?m really shocked, I
> >> still resist to believe it.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the position
> >> of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use
> >> your own name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe
> >> someone,? may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to
> >> appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly and
> >> non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean he is
> >> still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or something
> >> similar.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents. If
> >> you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be enough.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation, and
> >> may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and
> >> involvement an all this.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal interest.
> >> My only interest is to know the *real true* and I?m sure everybody agrees
> >> on that.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so no
> >> doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very
> >> thankful for that.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >>
> >> Jordi
> >>
> >> @jordipalet
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>> escribi?:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway suggest
> >> that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only on legacy
> >> space.
> >>
> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal
> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things done.
> >> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are established,
> >> the law should take its course and people should stand accountable for
> >> their deeds.
> >>
> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to discover
> >> the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or in active use,
> >> why would or should they not have been returned to the Registry for the
> >> common good?
> >>
> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by now.
> >>
> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf of
> >> the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here, with
> >> the assurance that justice will be served, the community should rather
> >> apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are available for
> >> developing the continent. That will be a better use of our time and
> >> intellect.
> >>
> >> Sunday.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
> >>
> >> Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there appears to
> >> have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy space.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the problem and
> >> not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how space
> >> that should have been subject to the RSA has been mis-appropriated and then
> >> turn to the more difficult question of legacy space. If the current
> >> processes are open to abuse, then moving legacy space under those processes
> >> may not have the desired outcome.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Mike
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Completely agree with Sunday.
> >>
> >> Mark.
> >>
> >> On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >>
> >> Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically ancient
> >> squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet in Africa, AfriNIC
> >> Services and bringing legacy spaces under some form of RSA?
> >>
> >> I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let us see how to
> >> help and empower the people doing useful work for Africa.
> >>
> >> Thanks.
> >>
> >> Sunday.
> >>
> >> On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> I hope you all will take the time to read and think about the following
> >> news story.
> >>
> >>
> >> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html>
> >>   I will have more to say about this in due course.  For the moment, I
> >> only
> >> wish to say that the investigation undertaken by myself and Jan Vermeulen
> >> is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >>     Regards,
> >> rfg
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> --
> >> --------------------------------------------------
> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> >> Managing Director
> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng <mailto:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng>, sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------
> >> _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing
> >> list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> **********************************************
> >> IPv4 is over
> >> Are you ready for the new Internet ?
> >> http://www.theipv6company.com <http://www.theipv6company.com/>
> >> The IPv6 Company
> >>
> >> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or
> >> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of
> >> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized
> >> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
> >> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly
> >> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the
> >> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or
> >> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including
> >> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal
> >> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this
> >> communication and delete it.
> >>
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> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >> URL: <
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/e007b6dd/attachment-0001.html <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/e007b6dd/attachment-0001.html>
> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 13
> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 10:16:03 +0100
> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>>
> >> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com <mailto:rfg at tristatelogic.com>>, General Discussions
> >>         of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com <mailto:4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> >>
> >> Dear Mr Guilmette,
> >>
> >> Regrettably, I do not monitor the press, but selected channels such as
> >> this list. It seems I got your attention, or you got my attention, or we
> >> both got each other's attention. Let us therefore maximize the possession.
> >>
> >> Important and interesting questions, that you have raised in this email.
> >> Let us put some punch in it. Kindly change the TO: field to
> >> ceo at afrinic.net <mailto:ceo at afrinic.net>, and cc the Community just to make sure it is not
> >> ignored, then resend it. I am sure the CEO will answer all the questions
> >> you here posed to me. Pity he has to start his tenure with these hard
> >> nuts and curveballs, but he is capable. He speaks for the Company, not me.
> >>
> >> I am equally sure that the Community appreciates the great work done,
> >> and no one supports the exposed fraud. You are a stakeholder, and not
> >> some casual bystander so please note this. What you conveniently
> >> ignored, is that the #1 accused company insider is the eye of the
> >> company on the policy lists, where you raised the issues.
> >>
> >> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should
> >> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more
> >> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking stakeholder.
> >> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.
> >>
> >> My use of the term "Whistleblowers" is appropriate, as I looked at one
> >> of your reference links, and indeed, someone confirmed to you privately
> >> that your hunch is right. If you do not claim the honour, they should,
> >> because you rightly built on their work!
> >>
> >> Great job you are doing.
> >>
> >> Have a great day.
> >>
> >> Sunday.
> >>
> >> On 05/12/2019 23:44, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> > In message <4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com <mailto:4d42abea-9bf3-5862-52c9-64db51a594e5 at gmail.com>>,
> >> > Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> The community has been informed that there is already some internal
> >> >> investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
> >> >> done.
> >> > Mr. Folayan,
> >> >
> >> > These matters were first brought to light in the press on September 1,
> >> > 2019, a full three months ago.  Since that time there has not been a
> >> > single meaningful utterance out of either the board or the acting CEO,
> >> > or the new CEO regarding these matters, others than a few vague
> >> assurances
> >> > that these matters are being looked into.
> >> >
> >> > Going back further, I would wish you to note that I raised concerns
> >> > about these matters, in multiple forums, in November of 2016, a full
> >> > three years ago.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html <https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089164.html>
> >> >
> >> https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html <https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2016-November/089232.html>
> >> >      https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2016/006129.html>
> >> >
> >> > I would respectfully request you to also note also that I again
> >> > repeatedly raised concerns regarding these matters in August of 2017,
> >> > albeit in a forum where I had hoped to get at least some attention
> >> > paid to these matters, having previously failed utterly to elicit any
> >> > concern at all about any of this from the AFRINIC community itself.
> >> >
> >> >      https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html <https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091821.html>
> >> >      https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html <https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/091954.html>
> >> >      https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html <https://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog/2017-August/092092.html>
> >> >
> >> > At the present moment, the AFRINIC community would still be utterly
> >> > in the dark with regards to all of these abundant and pervasive
> >> > issues... issues which, on the surface, quite certainly appear to
> >> > entail large-scale and years-long insider embezzlement... if it
> >> > were not for my diligent pursuit of the facts of this case, and the
> >> > courageous reporting of MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/> <http://mybroadband.co.za/ <http://mybroadband.co.za/>>.
> >> Neither the board nor
> >> > the interim CEO nor the recently appointed new CEO have given any
> >> > clear indication of when this purported internal investigation will
> >> > either bear fruit or conclude, let alone when the various stakeholders
> >> > and members of the AFRINIC community might be privileged to receive
> >> > any of the findings that it may reach.  And yet despite having had
> >> > either three full months or three full years to look into these
> >> > matters, depending on where one elects to start counting from, and
> >> > despite that fact that absolutely no results have been forthcoming
> >> > from this purported internal investigation, today you counsel patience.
> >> >
> >> > This begs the question -- At what point will it be reasonable for the
> >> > community's patience to come to an end?  Does the community have any
> >> > assurance, from either the board or the CEO, that waiting another
> >> > three months, or even another three years, is at all likely to yield
> >> > anything other than a continuation of what would appear to be the
> >> > current attempts to quietly sweep the embezzlement of tens of millions
> >> > of dollars of valuable IPv4 assets under the carpet?
> >> >
> >> > On what date certain will any official statement on these matters at
> >> long
> >> > last be forthcoming?
> >> >
> >> >> I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
> >> >> established, the law should take its course and people should stand
> >> >> accountable for their deeds.
> >> > This assertion on your part begs four further questions:
> >> >
> >> > 1)  Above and beyond the abundant facts that have already been presented
> >> > in the MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/> <http://mybroadband.co.za/ <http://mybroadband.co.za/>> article, the
> >> majority of which were drawn from
> >> > publicly available sources including open government records, what more
> >> > will it take for you to be persuaded that "criminal actions and
> >> intentions
> >> > are established"?  What parts of the abundant documentary evidence
> >> already
> >> > presented in this case do you find less than persuasive?
> >> >
> >> > 2)  If, as asserted in the MyBroadband.co.za <http://mybroadband.co.za/>
> >> <http://mybroadband.co.za/ <http://mybroadband.co.za/>> article, it can be persuasively
> >> > demonstrated that large chunks of valuable IPv4 address space were in
> >> fact
> >> > purloined from the AFRINIC free pool, then would you agree that AFRINIC
> >> > itself is one of the aggrieved parties?  And if so, would you hope and
> >> > expect that AFRINIC would file formal criminal complaints with any and
> >> > all relevant national law enforcement bodies on that basis?
> >> >
> >> > 3)  Given the well-documented corruption that is both pervasive and
> >> endemic
> >> > within the judicial systems of various relevant African countries, do
> >> you
> >> > have any basis for believing that, at the end of the day, it is at all
> >> > likely that justice will ever actually be served in this case?
> >> >
> >> > 4)  What should be AFRINIC's own unilateral response be in those well-
> >> > documented cases involving the illicit theft of IPv4 address blocks from
> >> > AFRINIC's own free pool?  Should these blocks be immediately reclaimed
> >> by
> >> > AFRINIC?  Or would your preference be to permit the thieves, whoever
> >> they
> >> > may be, to retain and to continue to profit from their ill-gotten booty
> >> > on a day-by-day and month-by-month basis, as is currently the case?
> >> >
> >> >> I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
> >> >> organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of 7
> >> >> years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to
> >> discover
> >> >> the manipulations.
> >> > On this point, you and I are in complete agreement.  "The system", such
> >> > as it is, is quite self-evidently broken.  But this raises the further
> >> > question of who was, or who should have been minding the store, at
> >> AFRINIC,
> >> > while all of this was going on.  Is it even plausible that a single bad
> >> > actor could have quitely made off with more than fifty million dollars
> >> > worth of IPv4 space, both legacy and non-legacy, over the course of a
> >> > several year period, and yet not a single other member of the AFRINIC
> >> > staff even noticed any of this?
> >> >
> >> >> For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their legal
> >> >> department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with gusto by
> >> now.
> >> > See above.  Your expectations appear to be quite clearly misplaced with
> >> > respect to the #1 aggrieved party, which is AFRINIC itself.  No other
> >> > single party or entity has been ripped off for anywhere near as much
> >> > valuable IPv4 space as AFRINIC itself.  And yet we have, as yet, no
> >> > clear indication from any board member, from any CEO, or from any staff
> >> > member that AFRINIC even agrees that it has been victimized, let alone
> >> > that any legal action of any kind is even remotely being contemplated
> >> > by the legal department of this number one victim, AFRINIC.
> >> >
> >> > If this is what "gusto" looks like, then I need to get a new dictionary.
> >> >
> >> >> While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
> >> >> of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
> >> >> with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
> >> >> rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
> >> >> available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of
> >> our
> >> >> time and intellect.
> >> > See above.  With all due respect I am forced to inquire as to where we
> >> > may find this postulated "assurance that justice will be served"?  I
> >> have
> >> > so far not seen it, nor even anything vaguely approximating it, in any
> >> > document or in any formal pronouncement of any board or staff member of
> >> > AFRINIC.  In fact, quite the opposite.  I see that a purported three
> >> > month internal investigation has produced nothing of note worth publicly
> >> > reporting on so far.  I see an attempt to shift the blame for this
> >> colossal
> >> > and years-long internal screw-up onto inattentive legacy block holders
> >> > while minimizing the self-evident responsibility *and victimhood* of
> >> > AFRINIC itself.  I see vague assurances that appropriate legal action
> >> > will ensue and that justice will somehow prevail, all set against a
> >> > backdrop of a continent notorious for judicial corruption and a general
> >> > disrespect for the rule of law, in particular within the two specific
> >> > national jurisdictions which are most obviously relevant to this case.
> >> >
> >> > For all of the above reasons I find your soothing assurances misplaced,
> >> > Mr. Folayan, and I would argue that this is no time for complacency.
> >> > The number one task of any Regional Internet Registry is to assign and
> >> > to properly keep track of the number resources allocated to it or or
> >> placed
> >> > under its purview, and in a way that is both transparent and fair to
> >> all.
> >> > AFRINIC has failed to fulfull this one simple and overriding
> >> responsibility.
> >> >
> >> > I continue to hope that the new leadership with quickly and effectively
> >> > remedy these past corrupt practices and their current and still ongoing
> >> > after-effects.  I hope and believe that ignoring or minimizing the now
> >> > evident problems, or continuing to try to just sweep them under the
> >> carpet
> >> > will no longer be considered a vialble option.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> > rfg
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > P.S.  I must strenuously object to your use of the word "whistleblower"
> >> in
> >> > this context Mr. Folayan.  That term is usually used in reference to
> >> some
> >> > insider who has some inside information by virtue of having witnessed
> >> > first-hand some malfeasance.  Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen fit this
> >> > description.  Rather, we have labored as outsiders only.  We have not
> >> > been privy to any "inside" information.  Quite the opposite in fact.  We
> >> > have been repeatedly tharted and stonewalled in our reasonable requests
> >> > for information by AFRINIC staff.
> >> >
> >> > Most exemplary of this stonewalling was the staff response to our
> >> reasonable
> >> > requests for an unredacted copy of the current full WHOIS data base.
> >> Exactly
> >> > such unredacted data base dumps *are* provided by all of the four other
> >> > Regional Internet Registries to qualified researchers and journalists
> >> upon
> >> > request.  When we submitted repeated requests for exactly such
> >> unredacted
> >> > WHOIS data base dumps to AFRINIC staff however, our requests were
> >> rejected
> >> > out of hand and neither any clear reason nor any community-approved
> >> policy
> >> > was cited as the basis for the denial.
> >> >
> >> > At the time of this writing, I continue to await an adequate
> >> explanation for
> >> > this denial of reasonable researcher access and/or for the access to be
> >> > granted at long last.  Certain portions of my research cannot be
> >> completed
> >> > without this access, and I am not aware of any community-approved basis
> >> for
> >> > the rejection of such requests.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > P.P.S.  As noted above, AFRINIC itself is the number one victim of the
> >> > numerous IPv4 block thefts that have apparently taken place.  I feel
> >> > compelled to add that it appears that AFRINIC may have effectively been
> >> > double-victimized in at least two specific instances.
> >> >
> >> > First and most obviously, AFRINIC appears to have had several large IPv4
> >> > blocks "liberated" from its free pool.  Secondarily and even more
> >> insultingly
> >> > however, in at least two instances the thieves appear to have also
> >> arranged
> >> > to avoid paying the nominal annual fees that would normally be
> >> associated
> >> > with non-legacy block assignments, i.e. the annual fees that all other
> >> > legitimate AFRINIC members must pay for their legitimately-acquired IPv4
> >> > allocations.
> >> >
> >> > I call your attention specifically to the non-legacy 168.80.0.0/15 <http://168.80.0.0/15>
> >> block,
> >> > registered to the ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC organization, and also to the
> >> non-legacy
> >> > 196.16.0.0/14 <http://196.16.0.0/14> block, registered to the ORG-IA41-AFRINIC organization.
> >> These
> >> > blocks together have a combined free market value in excess of six
> >> million
> >> > U.S. dollars.
> >> >
> >> > As it was explained to me some time ago by a helpful fellow on the RPD
> >> > mailing list, organizations whose WHOIS records are marked as
> >> MEMBER-ONLY,
> >> > as both of these organization records are, are not expected to hold any
> >> > actual number resources, and thus, on that basis, pay no annual fees to
> >> > AFRINIC.
> >> >
> >> > I can't be sure that I have properly understood what I was told in this
> >> > regard, or that it is even applicable in these specific cases, but it
> >> does
> >> > appear to me that the responsible thieves in these two cases have -both-
> >> > stolen the relevant valuable IPv4 assignments -and- also have for years
> >> > on end cheated AFRINIC out of the annual fees that would otherwise be
> >> due
> >> > on these IPv4 assignments.
> >> >
> >> > Perhaps the AFRINIC accounting department can provide further
> >> clarification
> >> > with repect to the question of whether or not any annual fees have been
> >> > collected for each of the two specific IPv4 blocks I have mentioned, for
> >> > any year since their allocation to and association with the
> >> organizations
> >> > noted.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >>
> >> --
> >> --------------------------------------------------
> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> >> Managing Director
> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng <mailto:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng>, sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 14
> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:07:01 -0800
> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com <mailto:rfg at tristatelogic.com>>
> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <21084.1575626821 at segfault.tristatelogic.com <mailto:21084.1575626821 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> Mr. Folayan,
> >>
> >> Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful response.
> >>
> >> At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and beyond
> >> what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.
> >>
> >>
> >> In message <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com <mailto:4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>>,
> >> Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> >I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should
> >> >conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more
> >> >honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking stakeholder.
> >> >It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.
> >>
> >> Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.
> >>
> >> Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to see
> >> the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC.  That is quite certainly not a
> >> goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as
> >> you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder
> >> should wish for.  AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global
> >> Internet governance.  I cannot even envision things as being otherwise.
> >> No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a
> >> few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second.  And to use an
> >> even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing
> >> smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more than
> >> I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the plains.
> >>
> >> If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was being
> >> formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested
> >> that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already
> >> sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it, being
> >> preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere.  Now I may stand on the comfortable
> >> shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but
> >> I do not question the utility of the journey.
> >>
> >> The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think, matters
> >> of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose.  Time will
> >> tell if that is an accurate assesment.
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> rfg
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 15
> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:14:31 +0100
> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>>
> >> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es <mailto:jordi.palet at consulintel.es>>, General
> >>         Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <8d06cf43-7c72-07df-e510-96917cd8e0ed at gmail.com <mailto:8d06cf43-7c72-07df-e510-96917cd8e0ed at gmail.com>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
> >>
> >> Good points Jordi, and thanks for the throwback on the very many amazing
> >> sacrifices we all made, to grow the Internet in Africa.
> >>
> >> I will resist asking Ernest to defend himself here, We are not
> >> constituted as a competent jury, neither do we want to compromise the
> >> ongoing investigations.
> >>
> >> Questions are appropriate, so will be his own admissions or rebuttals,
> >> when the investigations are completed.
> >>
> >> I may be wrong, but that is my own expectations and position.
> >>
> >> Sunday.
> >>
> >> On 06/12/2019 10:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hi Sunday, all,
> >> >
> >> > I?ve been in ?internal conflict? myself, since I read the article. Let
> >> > me tell why.
> >> >
> >> > I met Ernest the first time around 2005, if I recall correctly. My
> >> > first AFRINIC meeting was AFRINIC-2 in Maputo, Mozambique, and shortly
> >> > after, during an ITU meeting in Geneva, Adiel asked me if I could
> >> > contribute to the AFRINIC community coming to the next meetings and
> >> > joining Ernest in his trips to do the Registration Services training
> >> > so I do IPv6 trainings.
> >> >
> >> > Sunday for sure can remember that when going for a training to Lagos,
> >> > I was deported back to my country, because a mess created by the
> >> > Madrid Nigerian consulate and thanks to the quick reaction from
> >> > Sunday, I could resolve that on the next day and flight again to do
> >> > the training.
> >> >
> >> > My immediate response was, of course, I will be very happy doing that,
> >> > and since them I lost tract in how many African countries, I?ve been
> >> > doing those trainings and how many thousands of brothers have been
> >> > able to take advantage of that.
> >> >
> >> > The relevance of that is clear. I?d a close relation with Ernest (as
> >> > well as with many other staff from all the RIRs). Traveling so much
> >> > together, you get to know people, and we are talking here about almost
> >> > 15 years. Of course, you may get a wrong impression, we all may have a
> >> > hidden face. As humans, we all have positive and negative things. But
> >> > I?m really shocked, I still resist to believe it.
> >> >
> >> > I also believe that he is a smart guy. So, put yourself in the
> >> > position of a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think
> >> > you will use your own name for registering companies, or instead you
> >> > will bribe someone, may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your
> >> > family name to appear in any documents? I feel this is really silly
> >> > and non-understandable. So maybe somebody used him, which doesn?t mean
> >> > he is still guilty ?in vigilando? because he trusted anyone else, or
> >> > something similar.
> >> >
> >> > Do we believe in ?presumption of innocence?? I do, despite documents.
> >> > If you don?t know the complete background, documents may not be enough.
> >> >
> >> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,
> >> > and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and
> >> > involvement an all this.
> >> >
> >> > Note that I?m not here defending anyone. I?ve no any personal
> >> > interest. My only interest is to know the **real true** and I?m sure
> >> > everybody agrees on that.
> >> >
> >> > Note also that I?ve no doubts that the documents may be authentic, so
> >> > no doubt about the good work and investigation done by Ronald and very
> >> > thankful for that.
> >> >
> >> > Regards,
> >> >
> >> > Jordi
> >> >
> >> > @jordipalet
> >> >
> >> > El 5/12/19 20:02, "Sunday Folayan" <sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>
> >> > <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>>> escribi?:
> >> >
> >> > It is a shame that the system was exploited. I did not in anyway
> >> > suggest that the malfeasance be ignored, or that we should focus only
> >> > on legacy space.
> >> >
> >> > The community has been informed that there is already some internal
> >> > investigations ongoing. We should give AFRINIC the time to get things
> >> > done. I equally expect that if criminal actions and intentions are
> >> > established, the law should take its course and people should stand
> >> > accountable for their deeds.
> >> >
> >> > I query the suitability of a system, where existing or moribund
> >> > organizations' IP resources are stolen/hijacked/leased for upwards of
> >> > 7 years, and it took this level of cross-border investigations to
> >> > discover the manipulations. If the resources are indeed not needed or
> >> > in active use, why would or should they not have been returned to the
> >> > Registry for the common good?
> >> >
> >> > For those whose resources were stolen or hijacked, I expect their
> >> > legal department will be pursuing the hijackers/traders/users with
> >> > gusto by now.
> >> >
> >> > While appreciating the whistle blower(s) for a job well done on behalf
> >> > of the entire community, Instead of running a mob-justice system here,
> >> > with the assurance that justice will be served, the community should
> >> > rather apply its mind on how to make sure that IP resources are
> >> > available for developing the continent. That will be a better use of
> >> > our time and intellect.
> >> >
> >> > Sunday.
> >> >
> >> > On 05/12/2019 1:46 PM, Mike Silber wrote:
> >> >
> >> >     Be that as it may - that seems to ignore the fact that there
> >> >     appears to have been significant malfeasance regarding non-legacy
> >> >     space.
> >> >
> >> >     I just want to ensure that we maintain a balanced view of the
> >> >     problem and not deflect it to focus only on the legacy space issue.
> >> >
> >> >     It terms of priorities - it would make sense to me to focus on how
> >> >     space that should have been subject to the RSA has been
> >> >     mis-appropriated and then turn to the more difficult question of
> >> >     legacy space. If the current processes are open to abuse, then
> >> >     moving legacy space under those processes may not have the desired
> >> >     outcome.
> >> >
> >> >     Mike
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >         On 5 Dec 2019, at 14:27, Mark Tinka <mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>
> >> >         <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu <mailto:mark.tinka at seacom.mu>>> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >         Completely agree with Sunday.
> >> >
> >> >         Mark.
> >> >
> >> >         On 5/Dec/19 13:02, Sunday Folayan wrote:
> >> >
> >> >             Isn't it time to address Legacy space issues, specifically
> >> >             ancient squatters on spaces meant to develop the Internet
> >> >             in Africa, AfriNIC Services and bringing legacy spaces
> >> >             under some form of RSA?
> >> >
> >> >             I urge the community to think beyond the sensation and let
> >> >             us see how to help and empower the people doing useful
> >> >             work for Africa.
> >> >
> >> >             Thanks.
> >> >
> >> >             Sunday.
> >> >
> >> >             On 04/12/2019 6:23 PM, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> >
> >> >                 I hope you all will take the time to read and think
> >> >                 about the following
> >> >                 news story.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html <https://mybroadband.co.za/news/internet/330379-how-internet-resources-worth-r800-million-were-stolen-and-sold-on-the-black-market.html>
> >> >
> >> >                 ? I will have more to say about this in due course.?
> >> >                 For the moment, I only
> >> >                 wish to say that the investigation undertaken by
> >> >                 myself and Jan Vermeulen
> >> >                 is ongoing, and that many others are provably involved.
> >> >                 ? ? Regards,
> >> >                 rfg
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >                 _______________________________________________
> >> >                 Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >                 Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> >                 <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> >
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >         _______________________________________________
> >> >         Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >         Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> >         <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> >         https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >     _______________________________________________
> >> >
> >> >     Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> >
> >> >     Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>  <mailto:
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> >
> >> >     https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > --------------------------------------------------
> >> > Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> >> > Managing Director
> >> > General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> >> > 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> >> > Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> >> > Email:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng <mailto:Email%3Asfolayan at skannet.com.ng>  <mailto:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng <mailto:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng>>,
> >> sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>  <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>>
> >> > ---------------------------------------------------
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss
> >> > mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > **********************************************
> >> > IPv4 is over
> >> > Are you ready for the new Internet ?
> >> > http://www.theipv6company.com <http://www.theipv6company.com/>
> >> > The IPv6 Company
> >> >
> >> > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged
> >> > or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive
> >> > use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty
> >> > authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of
> >> > this information, even if partially, including attached files, is
> >> > strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you
> >> > are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying,
> >> > distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if
> >> > partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be
> >> > considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original
> >> > sender to inform about this communication and delete it.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >>
> >> --
> >> --------------------------------------------------
> >> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> >> Managing Director
> >> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> >> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> >> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> >> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng <mailto:sfolayan at skannet.com.ng>, sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------
> >>
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> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/8c6c63d5/attachment-0001.html <https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/community-discuss/attachments/20191206/8c6c63d5/attachment-0001.html>
> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 16
> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 12:17:52 +0200
> >> From: Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net <mailto:Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>>
> >> To: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es <mailto:jordi.palet at consulintel.es>>
> >> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net <mailto:14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> > On 6 Dec 2019, at 11:04, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ via Community-Discuss <
> >> community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation,
> >> and may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and
> >> involvement an all this.
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> :-)  Might as well setup a confession booth and provide absolution of
> >> souls.  On a serious note, we need a proper investigation.  Let?s wait to
> >> hear from the CEO
> >>
> >> Omo
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >> >
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 17
> >> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2019 11:21:40 +0100
> >> From: Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>>
> >> To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com <mailto:rfg at tristatelogic.com>>, General Discussions
> >>         of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <c071ab53-ba47-a98a-8e28-d97187ae8c10 at gmail.com <mailto:c071ab53-ba47-a98a-8e28-d97187ae8c10 at gmail.com>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> >>
> >> Dear Mr Guilmette,
> >>
> >> On 06/12/2019 11:07, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
> >> > Mr. Folayan,
> >> >
> >> > Let me begin by saying that I greatly apperciate your thoughtful
> >> response.
> >> >
> >> > At the moment, I have only a few brief comments to add, above and beyond
> >> > what I have already said and what Jan Vermeulen has already written.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > In message <4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com <mailto:4ad77d37-f1d5-04a2-86bd-79802faeb235 at gmail.com>>,
> >> > Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com <mailto:sfolayan at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> I am sure you want to see the issues addressed, and not that we should
> >> >> conduct a requiem mass for AFRINIC right away. The former is much more
> >> >> honourable and deserves the support of every right-thinking
> >> stakeholder.
> >> >> It is the later that I seek to ensure is not your intention.
> >> > Please allow me to give you my most sincere assurances about that.
> >> >
> >> > Neither I nor Jan Vermeulen have either any intention or any wish to see
> >> > the demise or disappearance of AFRINIC.  That is quite certainly not a
> >> > goal for either of us, and as far as I am concerned, at least, is, as
> >> > you have said, not even something that any right-thinking stakeholder
> >> > should wish for.  AFRINIC is and has been an integral part of global
> >> > Internet governance.  I cannot even envision things as being otherwise.
> >> > No rational man would tear down an entire house at the first sign of a
> >> > few cracks in the foundation, nor even at the second.  And to use an
> >> > even move vivid analogy, I cannot, at present, envision the ongoing
> >> > smooth functioning on the global Internet without AFRINIC any more than
> >> > I can envision a horse deprived of one leg galloping across the plains.
> >> >
> >> > If I had been present and involved back in 2004, when AFRINIC was being
> >> > formed, I have no doubt that I would almost certainly have suggested
> >> > that some things might be done differently, but that ship has already
> >> > sailed, a long long time ago, and by my own choice I wasn't on it, being
> >> > preoccupied, as I was, elsewhere.  Now I may stand on the comfortable
> >> > shore and express some disagreement about the direction of travel, but
> >> > I do not question the utility of the journey.
> >> >
> >> > The problems that I and Jan have brought to light are, I think, matters
> >> > of implementation and not of fundamental design or purpose.  Time will
> >> > tell if that is an accurate assesment.
> >>
> >>
> >> This is most assuring and comforting at the same time.
> >>
> >> If I have sounded off-key, please accept my sincere apologies, and thank
> >> you very much for the good job you have done for the community so far.
> >> History will never forget your role and progressive disposition at this
> >> point in time.
> >>
> >> When AfriNIC was being formed, the challenges of today, were not
> >> envisioned in the very many ways that they now present themselves.
> >> Africa has come a long way. Unfortunately, there are still many more
> >> oceans to cross, but we will all band together as a purposeful fleet.
> >> That is how we can all weather the storms that may come, but sure they
> >> will come.
> >>
> >> With kind Regards ...
> >>
> >> Sunday.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 18
> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 02:58:27 -0800
> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com <mailto:rfg at tristatelogic.com>>
> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <21283.1575629907 at segfault.tristatelogic.com <mailto:21283.1575629907 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> In message <79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es <mailto:79FF870D-157F-424F-B4B7-7F425550B21B at consulintel.es>>,
> >> JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es <mailto:jordi.palet at consulintel.es>> wrote:
> >>
> >> >I also believe that he is a smart guy.
> >>
> >> I would not dispute that characterization in the slightest.
> >>
> >> >So, put yourself in the position of
> >> >a smart guy that want to do something bad. Do you think you will use
> >> your o
> >> >wn name for registering companies, or instead you will bribe
> >> someone,=C2=A0
> >> > may be a friend (but not family) to avoid your family name to appear in
> >> an
> >> >y documents? I feel this is really silly and non-understandable.
> >>
> >> And yet it seemed to work, for years on end, with no one raising so much
> >> as an eyebrow because nobody seriously investigated or seriously looked
> >> at all of the relevant corporate documents and WHOIS records and, in
> >> particular, the historical WHOIS records, including but not limited to
> >> these ones:
> >>
> >> ORG-AI2-AFRINIC     https://pastebin.com/raw/7rqfP1LD <https://pastebin.com/raw/7rqfP1LD>
> >> ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC   https://pastebin.com/raw/Nx79QkgB <https://pastebin.com/raw/Nx79QkgB>
> >> ORG-IA41-AFRINIC    https://pastebin.com/raw/ynEXMyCP <https://pastebin.com/raw/ynEXMyCP>
> >> ORG-ZZ139-AFRINIC   https://pastebin.com/raw/GX5egcbW <https://pastebin.com/raw/GX5egcbW>
> >> ORG-ZZ23-AFRINIC    https://pastebin.com/raw/Yu8K9z6N <https://pastebin.com/raw/Yu8K9z6N>
> >>
> >> I have been chasing down miscreants on the Internet for more than 20 years
> >> now.  One of the lessons I have learned in that time is that none of them
> >> are ten feet tall, and the majority of them absolutely suck at OPSEC.  It
> >> is almost as if some part of them is deluding their own brains into the
> >> false belief that what they are doing is not really wrong, in some
> >> sense, and that they are somehow actually entitled to the stuff they are
> >> stealing, and that thus, at some level, they don't actually need to hide
> >> what they are doing all that throughly, because just as White House Chief
> >> of Staff Mick Mulvaney did not long ago... much to the shock of
> >> everyone...
> >> if they are ever caught and confronted they assume that they will just say
> >> "Yea.  So?  We do that all of the time.  Get over it!"
> >>
> >> >So maybe
> >> >somebody used him, which doesn=E2=80=99t mean he is still guilty
> >> =E2=80=9Cin
> >> >vigilando=E2=80=9D because he trusted anyone else, or something similar.
> >>
> >> It's a nice thought, and you are a generous person to allow this
> >> possibility
> >> Jordi.  All I can say is that other information, not yet made public,
> >> appears to rule out the possibility that Mr. Byaruhanga was either an
> >> unwitting stooge or a convenient fall guy.
> >>
> >> >Do we believe in =E2=80=9Cpresumption of innocence=E2=80=9D? I do,
> >> despite
> >> >documents. If you don=E2=80=99t know the complete background, documents
> >> may
> >> >not be enough.
> >>
> >> I agree.
> >>
> >> That having been said, I hope that you will, as I have, spend some time
> >> carefully scrutinizing both the current and historical WHOIS records
> >> associated with the ORGanizations and the IPv4 blocks listed in the two
> >> tables in Jan's article.  If you do that, I think that you will be, as
> >> I was, hard pressed to explain all of the quite glaring anomalies in
> >> any way that does not involve a great deal of very deliberate malfesance
> >> on somebody's part.  Once you are convinced of that, then the question
> >> becomes:  Who is responsible?  And it is at that point that the various
> >> official governmental corporate registration records would seem to become
> >> very relevant.
> >>
> >> >So, I will like to request to Ernest, to provide a clear explanation, and
> >> >may be publicly recognize what (if any) have been his mistakes and
> >> involvement
> >> >an all this.
> >>
> >> I would like to echo that sentiment.
> >>
> >> Jan Vermeulen and myself have tried, repeatedly, and over some significant
> >> time now to reach him, both via voice, at a number of different phone
> >> numbers
> >> that we have identified as being associated with him, and also via email,
> >> at various of his known email addresses, and we have been utterly unable
> >> to
> >> do so.  We both very much look forward to speaking with him and getting
> >> his
> >> side of the story, if he has one.
> >>
> >> That having been said, we cannot be blamed, I think, for reaching certain
> >> reasonable conclusions when Jan's industry sources informed him, less than
> >> a day after I had attempted to confront Ernest, via email, with the facts
> >> arrayed against him, that he had abruptly resigned his position at AFRINIC
> >> after 15 years on the job.
> >>
> >> His abrupt resignation was and remains his only apparent response to our
> >> inquiries.
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> rfg
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 19
> >> Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2019 03:16:57 -0800
> >> From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" <rfg at tristatelogic.com <mailto:rfg at tristatelogic.com>>
> >> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] The Looting of AFRINIC
> >> Message-ID: <21648.1575631017 at segfault.tristatelogic.com <mailto:21648.1575631017 at segfault.tristatelogic.com>>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> >>
> >> In message <14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net <mailto:14BBAB93-2E14-4338-81C4-87B8FECEFF88 at wacren.net>>,
> >> Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net <mailto:Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On a serious note, we need a proper investigation.  Let's
> >> >wait to hear from the CEO
> >>
> >> Have any of us been doing otherwise, for lo these past three months now?
> >>
> >> Have we been afforded any other choice in the matter?
> >>
> >> Can AFRINIC clean its own stables?
> >>
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> rfg
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Subject: Digest Footer
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> End of Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 547, Issue 1
> >> *************************************************
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > *Ogundele Olumuyiwa Caleb*
> > *muyiwacaleb at gmail.com <mailto:muyiwacaleb at gmail.com> <muyiwacaleb at gmail.com <mailto:muyiwacaleb at gmail.com>>*
> > *234 - 8077377378*
> > *234 - 07030777969*
> > _______________________________________________
> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> >
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Subject: Digest Footer
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> End of Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 551, Issue 1
> *************************************************
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

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From rfg at tristatelogic.com  Fri Dec 13 10:55:25 2019
From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette)
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2019 02:55:25 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC IP block thefts
Message-ID: <59216.1576234525@segfault.tristatelogic.com>

I was led to believe that something... at least some sort of an
official statment... would be forthcoming from AFRINIC today.

Is that going to be happening?   Or is this purported internal
investigation going to contine to drag on, ad infinitum, with
nobody but a select few insiders knowing the first thing about
what is really going on?

May we at least have an -interim- status report?  Please?


Regards,
rfg



From sander at steffann.nl  Fri Dec 13 13:14:07 2019
From: sander at steffann.nl (Sander Steffann)
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2019 14:14:07 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 551, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <C4E6BCC1-F22D-4C42-AD1B-0B359F4078EC@delong.com>
References: <mailman.1860.1575986283.5925.community-discuss@afrinic.net>
 <CAHcb0ASgpJL0_S-jRAcNhyDFmfK8hVh9chFJAsKTAHnL5GKsiQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <C4E6BCC1-F22D-4C42-AD1B-0B359F4078EC@delong.com>
Message-ID: <421C275F-6218-4B74-88DC-D01B3FA0AF03@steffann.nl>

Hi,

> The best thing to do with the review policy is to abandon it. Unfortunately, despite sustained opposition and an inability to bring it to consensus, the authors persist.

At some point the chairs are perfectly allowed to declare non-consensus and drop the proposal. It's their responsibility to make sure this working group functions, and wasting time on a proposal that is not getting consensus is harmful to this working group and its participants.

It's not something to be done lightly, but I think that time has come?
Sander

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From kmw.elitcha at gmail.com  Sat Dec 14 15:48:10 2019
From: kmw.elitcha at gmail.com (Komi Elitcha)
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2019 16:48:10 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 551, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <421C275F-6218-4B74-88DC-D01B3FA0AF03@steffann.nl>
References: <mailman.1860.1575986283.5925.community-discuss@afrinic.net>
 <CAHcb0ASgpJL0_S-jRAcNhyDFmfK8hVh9chFJAsKTAHnL5GKsiQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <C4E6BCC1-F22D-4C42-AD1B-0B359F4078EC@delong.com>
 <421C275F-6218-4B74-88DC-D01B3FA0AF03@steffann.nl>
Message-ID: <CAN0q0kHVksx235JtDZzhWE9BbiphRHeL398Rck+taEa+wg=2GQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Sander,

Can you point to the section of the PDP  which allows chairs to make such
decision?

We have to stick  to the PDP which has been declared by some as not broken.
If you think  like us, that the PDP  needs  improvement, please say so and
contribute to the discussions around PDP-bis.

Thanks

- Komi

Le ven. 13 d?c. 2019 ? 14:16, Sander Steffann <sander at steffann.nl> a ?crit :

> Hi,
>
> > The best thing to do with the review policy is to abandon it.
> Unfortunately, despite sustained opposition and an inability to bring it to
> consensus, the authors persist.
>
> At some point the chairs are perfectly allowed to declare non-consensus
> and drop the proposal. It's their responsibility to make sure this working
> group functions, and wasting time on a proposal that is not getting
> consensus is harmful to this working group and its participants.
>
> It's not something to be done lightly, but I think that time has come?
> Sander
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>


-- 
--KE
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From sander at steffann.nl  Sat Dec 14 17:51:28 2019
From: sander at steffann.nl (Sander Steffann)
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2019 18:51:28 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 551, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <CAN0q0kHVksx235JtDZzhWE9BbiphRHeL398Rck+taEa+wg=2GQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.1860.1575986283.5925.community-discuss@afrinic.net>
 <CAHcb0ASgpJL0_S-jRAcNhyDFmfK8hVh9chFJAsKTAHnL5GKsiQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <C4E6BCC1-F22D-4C42-AD1B-0B359F4078EC@delong.com>
 <421C275F-6218-4B74-88DC-D01B3FA0AF03@steffann.nl>
 <CAN0q0kHVksx235JtDZzhWE9BbiphRHeL398Rck+taEa+wg=2GQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AC3D9CBF-C286-4770-B701-3ADDA6385CA7@steffann.nl>

Hi,

> Can you point to the section of the PDP  which allows chairs to make such decision?

I'd say that "3.6 Varying the Process" would apply here, although that is written in a way that the only variation seems to be to expedite the process.

> We have to stick  to the PDP which has been declared by some as not broken.
> If you think  like us, that the PDP  needs  improvement, please say so and contribute to the discussions around PDP-bis.

I think there are a few things that should be improved:

1) The function description of the chairs is now: "The Policy Development Working Group has two Chairs to perform its administrative functions". I think the chairs have more responsibility and a more important role than that. To reflect that, I think section 3.6 needs to be rewritten to allow the chairs more freedom in ensuring the functioning of the working group.

In the current case there has been one clear violation of the PDP already. Section 3.4.1 clearly states "The author(s) shall make the necessary changes to the draft policy according to the feedback received.". The versions of the draft policy have clearly not addressed all the issues that have been raised before their publication. The chairs should not allow a new version to be submitted until the authors have explicitly addressed all the open issues and fulfilled that requirement of the PDP. If that is not possible, then the policy will expire after one year of the publication of the latest version.

So in summary: the current PDP doesn't seem to allow for the chairs to make such a decision, but it does allow (require?) them to make sure the authors comply with the PDP. That way a runaway proposal can still be stopped, although it will take a year.

Cheers,
Sander

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From sander at steffann.nl  Sat Dec 14 17:55:08 2019
From: sander at steffann.nl (Sander Steffann)
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2019 18:55:08 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 551, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <AC3D9CBF-C286-4770-B701-3ADDA6385CA7@steffann.nl>
References: <mailman.1860.1575986283.5925.community-discuss@afrinic.net>
 <CAHcb0ASgpJL0_S-jRAcNhyDFmfK8hVh9chFJAsKTAHnL5GKsiQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <C4E6BCC1-F22D-4C42-AD1B-0B359F4078EC@delong.com>
 <421C275F-6218-4B74-88DC-D01B3FA0AF03@steffann.nl>
 <CAN0q0kHVksx235JtDZzhWE9BbiphRHeL398Rck+taEa+wg=2GQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <AC3D9CBF-C286-4770-B701-3ADDA6385CA7@steffann.nl>
Message-ID: <114994F6-781F-4D83-B352-9753DD1785AD@steffann.nl>

I just looked up the timeline, and for AFPUB-2016-GEN-001-DRAFT-08 it basically means that the authors have to submit a new version that addresses all the feedback received on all the version of AFPUB-2016-GEN-001 before the 7th of June 2020, or their proposal expires automatically.

Cheers,
Sander

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From comm-announce at afrinic.net  Tue Dec 17 06:15:43 2019
From: comm-announce at afrinic.net (AFRINIC Communication)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 10:15:43 +0400
Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Board Updates
Message-ID: <7CED7E7E-1899-45EC-9E50-C9407F6F6DF8@afrinic.net>

AFRINIC Board of Directors


Communique


Cybercity, Ebene, Mauritius, 16 December 2019


Dear colleagues,


The Board would like to share the following information with the AFRINIC community at large.


Completion of CEO search process


After a rigorous recruitment process, the Board announced the appointment of Mr. Eddy Kayihura on 25 October 2019 as the new CEO to replace Mr. Alan Barrett who left the organisation in July 2019 after serving for almost five years. Eddy, 43, joined the company on 4 November 2019. The new CEO brings on board a wealth of experience acquired over a period of more than 20 years as a chief executive officer, chief information technology officer (CIO), a network engineer, software developer among other positions in the IT and Telecommunications industry. We request our members to offer Eddy the necessary support, space and autonomy he needs to successfully lead the organisation.



1. Strategic Plan

The life of the current Strategic Plan 2016-2020 is coming to an end and there is a need to develop the next one. AFRINIC has published an assessment of the current Strategic Plan. We also launched consultations on the Strategic Plan 2021-2025 during AFRINIC 31. The consultation phase will be close on 30 April 2020. Please see the Strategic Plan 2016-2020 assessment, and time plan for the development of the Strategic Plan 2021-2025 at https://afrinic.net/strategy#2016-2020 <https://afrinic.net/strategy#2016-2020>.



2. Election guidelines

AFRINIC has been holding public consultations on the Election Guideline. The deadline for comments was 13 December 2019. The Board will compile and incorporate the feedback in the final version of the Election Guideline.



3. Filling of casual vacancy for Eastern Africa (Seat 6)

The seat on the Board for Eastern Africa has been vacant since October. The Board has decided to fill the seat according to the process followed in the past. Those interested in contesting the seat should fill the form found at https://registration.afrinic.net/elections/board-express-of-interest-201912 <https://registration.afrinic.net/elections/board-express-of-interest-201912>.



4. External Auditor for Financial Year 2019

AFRINIC has a statutory requirement to appoint an External Auditor. The External Auditor appointed for FY 2019 informed AFRINIC that it will be unavailable to conduct the exercise. On 28 October 2019, the Board received a resignation letter from PwC. In the letter, PwC stated that their resignation was based on their risk assessment without going into detail. On 5 November 2019, on behalf of the Board, the CEO wrote to PwC requesting further explanation. After waiting for over a month for feedback from PwC, the Board has decided to share the letter (accessible to members only). Further, AFRINIC has identified a new External Auditor to fill the casual vacancy as per section 15.3 (v) of the AFRINIC Constitution. The name of the Auditor will be announced once contract negotiations are finalised.



5. Update on IP investigation

As mentioned in our previous announcement on the matter, AFRINIC has been addressing the issue of suspicious activities in the WHOIS database which affected some resources.



Further to the Board?s communication during the Community Engagement exercise at the AFRINIC 31 meeting, we hereby re-affirm that the Board initiated investigations as soon as it learnt of the matter. The issue was first brought to the attention of the Board after the resignation of the former CEO who informed the Board that there might have been some unauthorised changes in the AFRINIC WHOIS database and that internal investigations were on-going. The Board, in conjunction with the management led by the Interim CEO, decided to seek assistance from one of the RIRs. In order to ensure an independent assessment and internal investigation, APNIC was selected to lead the investigations. APNIC submitted a report which confirms some of the allegations. The matter was reported to the Central Criminal Investigation Division of the Mauritius Police Force on Tuesday, 10 December 2019 for further investigation and action. Unfortunately, we cannot, at this stage, add anything more on the matter so as not to cause prejudice to the on-going police investigation.



In the meantime, the CEO is tasked with instituting internal measures to limit access, and avoid manipulation of objects in WHOIS database and to suspend or revoke implicated and/or suspected parties who have access to infrastructure, services and other resources. The Board is considering what additional resources would be needed during the course of the investigation and action.



6. Board community engagement session

The Board held its second Community Engagement exercise during the AFRINIC 31 meeting during which participants raised several issues. The Board also introduced the new CEO to the community. It also fielded several questions from both those on site and those attending the meeting remotely.



7. Budget 2020

The Board approved the budget for FY 2020.

The 2020 Operations budget take cognisance of the following factors:

? 2020 is the last year of the current cycle of the Strategic Plan 2016-2020.

? AFRINIC is hitting Soft Landing Phase 2.



As a result of the above, a very conservative approach was adopted in deriving the numbers and operational activities focused on objectives which appeared on the Strategic Plan but were yet to be achieved



2020 Fee Revenue target assumes that new membership shall continue to grow at a slower pace during the second phase of the Soft Landing.



The budgeted operating costs for 2020 reflects the continuing execution of the Strategic Plan while maintaining high standards of service level.



Human Resources budget includes reinforcing the structure to cater for increased expectations. A new area of focus was added to recognise the need for increased stakeholder engagement. In addition, special attention is being paid to strengthening the organisation?s infrastructure.



8. Ad-Hoc Reform Committee

The Board has formed an Ad-Hoc Reform Committee following community consultations that started in Kampala during the Africa Internet Summit in June 2019. The committee will assess the challenges facing AFRINIC and make a recommendation to the Board. The Committee is composed of:

-  Past AFRINIC CEOs (Mr. Adiel Akplogan and Mr. Alan Barrett)

-  Past AFRINIC Chair (Dr. Viv Padayatchy)

-  Governance Committee representative (Dr. Alioune Traore)

-  RIR representative (Mr. Paul Wilson, CEO APNIC)

-  Board representative (Prof. Habib Youssef)



9. Fee Review

The Board concluded AFRINIC fee review discussions and decided that there will be no change in the current fee categories. However, with the Soft Landing phase 2 approaching, the Board has introduced two new fee categories in order to make the Soft Landing phase 2 policy requirements fully implementable.



Signed



Dr. Christian D. Bope

Chairman, AFRINIC Board of Directors


???????????????????????????????????...


Conseil d'administration d'AFRINIC


Communiqu?


Cybercity, Ebene, Maurice, 16 d?cembre 2019


Chers coll?gues,


Le Conseil souhaite partager les informations suivantes avec l?ensemble de la communaut? AFRINIC.

Processus de recherche du DG compl?t?

Apr?s un processus de recrutement rigoureux, le Conseil a annonc? la nomination de M. Eddy Kayihura le 25 octobre 2019 en tant que nouveau DG pour remplacer M. Alan Barrett qui a quitt? l'organisation en juillet 2019 apr?s avoir servi pendant pr?s de cinq ans. Eddy, 43 ans, a rejoint l'entreprise le 4 novembre 2019. Le nouveau DG apporte une riche d'exp?rience acquise sur une p?riode de plus de 20 ans en tant que DG, Chief Information Technology Officer (CIO), ing?nieur r?seau,  d?veloppeur de logiciel parmi d'autres postes dans l'industrie informatique et des t?l?communications. Nous demandons ? nos membres d'offrir ? Eddy le soutien, l'espace et l'autonomie n?cessaires pour diriger avec succ?s l'organisation.

1. Plan strat?gique

Le cycle de l'actuel Plan strat?gique 2016-2020 tire ? sa fin et il est n?cessaire de d?velopper le prochain. AFRINIC a publi? une ?valuation du plan strat?gique actuel. Nous avons ?galement lanc? des consultations sur le Plan strat?gique 2021-2025 pendant AFRINIC 31. La phase de consultation se terminera le 30 avril 2020. Veuillez consulter l'?valuation du Plan strat?gique 2016-2020 et le calendrier pour l'?laboration du Plan strat?gique 2021-2025 ? l'adresse https://afrinic.net/strategy#2016-2020 <https://afrinic.net/strategy#2016-2020>.

2. Lignes directrices pour les ?lections

AFRINIC a tenu des consultations publiques pour une ?valuation de son prcessus ?lectoral. La date limite pour les commentaires ?tait le 13 d?cembre 2019. Le Conseil d'administration compilera et incorporera les commentaires dans la version finale du document.

3. Emploi vacant occasionnel pour l'Afrique de l'Est (si?ge 6)

Le si?ge au Conseil d'administration pour l'Afrique de l'Est est vacant depuis octobre. Le Conseil a d?cid? de pourvoir le si?ge selon le processus suivi dans le pass?. Les personnes int?ress?es ? contester le si?ge doivent remplir le formulaire disponible sur https://registration.afrinic.net/elections/board-express-of-interest-201912 <https://registration.afrinic.net/elections/board-express-of-interest-201912>.

4. Commissaire aux comptes pour l'exercice 2019

AFRINIC a une obligation l?gale de nommer un Commissaire aux comptes. L'auditeur externe nomm? pour l'exercice 2019 a inform? AFRINIC qu'il ne serait pas disponible ? mener l'exercice. Le 28 octobre 2019, le Conseil a re?u une lettre de d?mission de PwC. Dans la lettre, PwC a d?clar? que sa d?mission ?tait fond?e sur son ?valuation des risques sans entrer dans les d?tails. Le 5 novembre 2019, au nom du conseil d'administration, le DG a ?crit ? PwC pour lui demander des explications suppl?mentaires. Apr?s  plus d'un mois d?attente, apr?s avoir re?u les explications de PwC, le Conseil a aussit?t pris la d?cision de partager la lettre  uniquement aux membres). En outre, AFRINIC a identifi? un nouvel auditeur externe pour combler une vacance occasionnelle conform?ment ? la section 15.3 (v) de la Constitution d?AFRINIC. L'auditeur sera annonc? une fois les n?gociations contractuelles finalis?es.


5. Mise ? jour de l'enqu?te sur les adresses IP

Comme mentionn? dans notre pr?c?dente annonce ? ce sujet, AFRINIC a abord? la question des activit?s suspectes dans la base de donn?es WHOIS qui ont affect? certaines ressources.

Suivant la communication du Conseil au cours de la s?ance d'engagement communautaire lors de la r?union d'AFRINIC 31, nous r?affirmons par la pr?sente que le Conseil a ouvert une enqu?te d?s qu'il a eu connaissance de l'affaire. La question a ?t? port?e pour la premi?re fois ? l'attention du Conseil d'administration apr?s la d?mission de l'ancien DG qui a inform? le Conseil d'administration du fait qu'il pourrait y avoir eu des changements non autoris?s dans la base de donn?es WHOIS AFRINIC et que des enqu?tes internes ?taient en cours. Le conseil, en collaboration avec la direction, sous la tutelle du DG par int?rim, a pris la d?cision de demander l'aide d'un des RIR. Pour assurer une ?valuation ind?pendante ? travers une enqu?te interne, l'APNIC a ?t? s?lectionn?e pour mener les enqu?tes. L'APNIC a soumis un rapport qui confirme certaines des all?gations. L'affaire a ?t? signal?e ? la Division centrale des enqu?tes criminelles des forces de police de Maurice le mardi 10 d?cembre 2019 pour le compl?ment d'enqu?te et la suite ? donner. Malheureusement, nous ne pouvons, ? ce stade, rien ajouter de plus ? ce sujet afin de ne pas porter pr?judice ? l'enqu?te polici?re en cours.

Dans l?intervalle, le DG est charg? d'instaurer des mesures internes pour limiter l'acc?s et ?viter la manipulation d'objets dans la base de donn?es WHOIS et pour suspendre ou r?voquer les parties impliqu?es et / ou suspectes qui ont acc?s ? l'infrastructure, aux services et ? d'autres ressources. Le Conseil examine actuellement les ressources suppl?mentaires et les actions qui seraient n?cessaires ? la contribution de l?enqu?te.

6. S?ance d'engagement communautaire du conseil

Le Conseil a tenu sa deuxi?me s?ance d'engagement communautaire lors de la r?union AFRINIC 31 au cours de laquelle les participants ont soulev? plusieurs questions. Le conseil a ?galement pr?sent? le nouveau DG ? la communaut?. Il a ?galement r?pondu ? plusieurs questions des personnes pr?sentes sur place et des participants ? distance ? la r?union.

7. Budget 2020

Le Conseil a approuv? le budget pour l'exercice 2020.
Le budget des op?rations 2020 tient compte des facteurs suivants:
? 2020 est la derni?re ann?e du cycle actuel du Plan strat?gique 2016-2020.
? AFRINIC atteindra la phase 2 du soft landing.

De ce fait, une approche tr?s conservatrice a ?t? adopt?e afin de soutenir les activit?s et chiffres op?rationnelles ax?s sur les objectifs qui figuraient dans le Plan strat?gique mais qui n'?taient pas encore atteints.

Nous pr?voyons pour l?ann?e 2020 une r?duction de nos revenus provenant des cotisations des nouveaux membres durant la deuxi?me phase du soft landing.

Les co?ts op?rationels budg?tis? pour 2020 refl?tent la poursuite de l'ex?cution du plan strat?gique en accord avec le maintien de nos standards de service ?lev?s.

Le budget des ressources humaines comprend le renforcement de la structure organisationnelle afin de r?pondre aux attentes accrues. Un nouveau aspect organisationel a ?t? ajout? pour reconna?tre la n?cessit? d'un engagement plus soutenu des parties prenantes. En outre, une attention particuli?re est aussi accord?e au renforcement de l?infrastructure de l?organisation.


8. Comit? de r?forme ad hoc

Le Conseil a form? un comit? de r?forme ad hoc ? la suite des consultations avec la communaut? qui ont commenc? ? Kampala lors de l?AIS?19 en juin 2019. Le comit? ?valuera les d?fis auxquels est confront? AFRINIC et fera une recommandation au Conseil. Le Comit? est compos?:
- d'anciens DG d'AFRINIC (M. Adiel Akplogan et M. Alan Barrett)
- d?un ancien pr?sident AFRINIC (Dr Viv Padayatchy)
- d?un repr?sentant du comit? de gouvernance (Dr. Alioune Traor?)
- d?un repr?sentant RIR (M. Paul Wilson, PDG APNIC)
- d?un repr?sentant du Conseil (Prof. Habib Youssef)

9. R?vision des tarifs 

Le Conseil a conclu les discussions sur la r?vision des tarifs AFRINIC et a d?cid? qu'il n'y aura aucun changement dans les cat?gories de tarifs actuelles. Cependant, ? l'approche de la phase 2 du soft landing, le Conseil a introduit deux nouvelles cat?gories de cotisations afin de rendre les exigences de la politique soft landing pleinement applicables.


Sign?


Dr Christian D. Bope
Pr?sident du conseil d'administration d?AFRINIC

????????????????.


???? ????


Cybercity ? Ebene ? ???????? ? 16 ?????? 2019


?????? ????????

??? ???? ??????? ?????? ????????? ??????? ?? ????? AFRINIC ???? ???.


???????? ?? ????? ????? ?????? ????????


??? ????? ????? ????? ? ???? ???? ??????? ????? ????? ??? ???????? ?? 25 ?????? 2019 ????? ?????? ???? ???? ??? ????? ???? ????? ???? ???? ??????? ?? ????? 2019 ??? ?? ??? ???? ??? ????? ???????. ???? ??? ? 43 ????? ? ??? ?????? ?? 4 ?????? 2019. ???? ?????? ???????? ?????? ???? ?? ?????? ???????? ??? ???? ???? ?? 20 ????? ????? ?????? ????? ?????? ????? ????????? (CIO) ? ????? ????? ? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ??????? ?????? ?? ????? ????????? ????????? ??????????. ???? ?? ??????? ?? ?????? ??? Eddy ????? ?????? ??????? ?????? ?????? ???? ?????? ?????? ??????? ?????.



1. ????? ????????????

????? ??? ????? ???????????? ??????? 2016-2020 ?? ??????? ????? ???? ??? ????? ????? ???????. ???? AFRINIC ???? ????? ????? ???????????? ???????. ??? ?????? ??????? ??? ????? ???????????? 2021-2025 ???? AFRINIC 31. ?????? ????? ??????? ?? 30 ????? 2020. ???? ??????? ??? ????? ????? ???????????? 2016-2020 ? ?????? ??????? ?????? ????? ???????????? 2021-2025 ?? https://afrinic.net/strategy#2016-2020 <https://afrinic.net/strategy#2016-2020>.



2. ??????? ????????? ??????????

???? AFRINIC ??????? ???? ??? ??????? ????????? ??????????. ??? ?????? ??????? ????????? ?? 13 ?????? 2019. ????? ???? ??????? ?????? ?????? ????????? ?? ?????? ???????? ?? ???? ??????????.



3. ??? ???? ???? ???? ??????? (?????? 6)

?? ???? ???? ????? ??? ??????? ?????? ??? ??????. ??? ???? ??????? ??? ?????? ????? ??????? ??????? ?? ??????. ??? ???????? ?? ??? ?????? ??? ????????? ???????? ??? ?????? https://registration.afrinic.net/elections/board-express-of-interest-201912 <https://registration.afrinic.net/elections/board-express-of-interest-201912>.

4. ??????? ??????? ????? ??????? 2019

??? AFRINIC ??? ?????? ?????? ???? ?????. ???? ??????? ??????? ??????? ?? ????? ??????? 2019 AFRINIC ??? ?? ???? ?????? ????? ???????. ?? 28 ?????? 2019 ? ???? ???? ??????? ???? ??????? ?? ???? PwC. ?? ??????? ? ???? ???? ????? ???????? ????? ?? ????????? ???? ????? ??? ????? ??????? ??? ????? ?? ????????. ?? 5 ?????? 2019 ? ????? ?? ???? ??????? ? ??? ?????? ???????? ????? PwC ???? ?????? ?? ???????. ??? ???????? ????? ?? ??? ????? ????????? ?? PwC ? ??? ???? ??????? ?????? ??????? (???? ??????? ?????? ????? ???). ????? ??? ??? ? ???? AFRINIC ??????? ??????? ?????? ???? ??????? ??????? ????? ?????? 15.3 (5) ?? ????? AFRINIC. ???? ??????? ?? ??? ??????? ????? ???????? ?? ??????? ??????.


5. ????? ??? ??????? IP

??? ????? ?? ??????? ?????? ??? ??????? ? ????? AFRINIC ????? ??????? ???????? ?? ????? ?????? WHOIS ????? ???? ??? ??? ???????.



???????? ??? ????? ?????? ????? ?????? ???????? ????????? ?? ?????? AFRINIC 31 ? ???? ?? ???? ?? ?????? ??? ????????? ????? ???? ???? ?????. ?? ??? ??????? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ??????? ?????? ???????? ?????? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ?? ???? ???? ??? ????????? ??? ?????? ??? ?? ????? ?????? WHOIS AFRINIC ??? ????????? ???????? ???? ?????. ??? ???? ??????? ? ????????? ?? ??????? ???? ?????? ?????? ???????? ?????? ? ??? ???????? ?? ??? ????? ???????? ?????????. ?? ??? ???? ????? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ? ?? ?????? APNIC ?????? ?????????. ???? APNIC ?????? ???? ??? ?????????. ??????? ??? ??????? ??? ???? ????????? ???????? ???????? ??????? ???? ???? ???????? ??? ???????? ? 10 ????? ????? / ?????? 2019 ????? ?? ????????? ??????????. ???? ???? ? ?? ?????? ? ?? ??? ??????? ? ????? ?? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??????? ??? ?? ????? ?? ???? ??????? ?????? ?? ??? ??????.



?? ???? ??? ? ???? ?????? ???????? ???? ?????? ?????? ???? ?? ?????? ? ????? ??????? ???????? ?? ????? ?????? WHOIS ?????? ?? ????? ??????? ???????? ? / ?? ??????? ??? ????? ????? ??????? ?????? ??? ?????? ??????? ???????? ???????? ??????. ???? ???? ??????? ??????? ???????? ???????? ????? ??????? ??????????.



6. ???? ?????? ???? ???????

??? ???? ??????? ?????? ?????? ???????? ????????? ???? ?????? AFRINIC 31 ???? ???? ????????? ????? ?????? ?? ???????. ??? ???? ??????? ????? ?????? ???????? ?????? ??? ???????. ??? ??? ?????? ?? ??????? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ???????? ?? ???.

7. ??????? 2020

???? ???? ??????? ??? ??????? ????? ??????? 2020.

???? ??????? ?????? ??? 2020 ?? ???????? ??????? ???????:

? 2020 ?? ??? ??? ?? ?????? ??????? ????? ???????????? 2016-2020.

? AFRINIC ??? ??? Soft Landing Phase 2.



????? ??? ??? ? ?? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ??????? ??????? ???????? ????????? ???? ???? ??? ??????? ???? ???? ?? ????? ???????????? ???? ?? ????? ???



2020 ????? ??? ???? ????????? ?? ????? ??????? ??????? ?? ????? ?????? ???? ???? ??????? ??????? ?? ?????? ??????.



???? ?????? ??????? ??????? ?? ????????? ???? 2020 ??????? ????? ????? ???????????? ?? ?????? ??? ??????? ????? ?? ????? ??????.



????? ??????? ??????? ??????? ????? ?????? ?????? ???????? ?????????. ??? ????? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? ????? ???????. ???????? ??? ??? ? ??? ????? ?????? ??? ?????? ?????? ??????? ???????.

8. ???? ??????? ???????

??? ???? ??????? ?????? ???? ????? ????? ??? ??????? ??????? ???? ???? ?? ?????? ???? ??? ???????? ?? ??????? ?? ????? 2019. ????? ?????? ?????? ???????? ???? ????? AFRINIC ?????? ????? ??? ??????. ????? ?????? ??:

- ???????? ?????????? ???????? ???????? (????? ???? ???????? ?????? ???? ?????)

- ???? AFRINIC ?????? (?. ??? ?????????)

- ???? ???? ??????? (?. ????? ??????)

- ???? RIR (????? ??? ?????? ? ?????? ???????? ????? APNIC)

- ???? ???? ??????? (?. ???? ????)



9. ?????? ??????

????? ???? ??????? ??????? ?????? ???? AFRINIC ???? ??? ?? ???? ???? ????? ?? ???? ?????? ???????. ??? ??? ? ?? ?????? ??????? ??????? ?? Soft Softing ? ???? ???? ??????? ????? ??????? ?? ?????? ?? ??? ??? ??????? ????? Soft Landing 2 ????? ??????? ???????.



????



??????? ???????? ?


???? ???? ????? ??????

?????????????????????????????????????????????????



Comunicado


Cybercity, Ebene, Mauritius, 16 de dezembro de 2019


Queridos colegas,

A Diretoria gostaria de compartilhar as seguintes informa??es com a comunidade AFRINIC em geral.


Conclus?o do processo de busca do CEO


Ap?s um processo rigoroso de recrutamento, o Conselho anunciou a nomea??o do Sr. Eddy Kayihura em 25 de outubro de 2019 como o novo CEO para substituir o Sr. Alan Barrett, que deixou a organiza??o em julho de 2019, depois de servir por quase cinco anos. Eddy, 43 anos, ingressou na empresa em 4 de novembro de 2019. O novo CEO traz uma vasta experi?ncia adquirida ao longo de um per?odo de mais de 20 anos como CEO, CIO, engenheiro de rede e software. desenvolvedor entre outras posi??es no setor de TI e telecomunica??es. Solicitamos que nossos membros ofere?am a Eddy o suporte, o espa?o e a autonomia necess?rios para liderar a organiza??o com sucesso.



1. Plano Estrat?gico

A vida do atual Plano Estrat?gico 2016-2020 est? chegando ao fim e ? necess?rio desenvolver o pr?ximo. A AFRINIC publicou uma avalia??o do atual Plano Estrat?gico. Tamb?m lan?amos consultas sobre o Plano Estrat?gico 2021-2025 durante o AFRINIC 31. A fase de consulta ser? encerrada em 30 de abril de 2020. Consulte a avalia??o do Plano Estrat?gico 2016-2020 e o cronograma para o desenvolvimento do Plano Estrat?gico 2021-2025 em https://afrinic.net/strategy#2016-2020 <https://afrinic.net/strategy#2016-2020>.



2. Diretrizes eleitorais

A AFRINIC vem realizando consultas p?blicas sobre as Diretrizes Eleitorais. O prazo final para coment?rios foi 13 de dezembro de 2019. O Conselho ir? compilar e incorporar o feedback na vers?o final das Diretrizes Eleitorais.



3. Preenchimento de vagas ocasionais na ?frica Oriental (sede 6)

A vaga no Conselho para a ?frica Oriental est? vaga desde outubro. O Conselho decidiu preencher a vaga de acordo com o processo seguido no passado. Os interessados ??em contestar a vaga devem preencher o formul?rio encontrado em https://registration.afrinic.net/elections/board-express-of-interest-201912 <https://registration.afrinic.net/elections/board-express-of-interest-201912>.

4. Auditor Externo para o Exerc?cio de 2019

A AFRINIC tem um requisito estatut?rio para nomear um Auditor Externo. O Auditor Externo designado para o EF de 2019 informou a AFRINIC de que n?o estar? dispon?vel para realizar o exerc?cio. Em 28 de outubro de 2019, o Conselho recebeu uma carta de demiss?o da PwC. Na carta, a PwC declarou que sua demiss?o se baseava na avalia??o de risco sem entrar em detalhes. Em 5 de novembro de 2019, em nome do Conselho, o CEO escreveu ? PwC solicitando mais explica??es. Depois de esperar mais de um m?s para receber coment?rios da PwC, o Conselho decidiu compartilhar a carta (acess?vel apenas aos membros). Al?m disso, a AFRINIC identificou um novo Auditor Externo para preencher a vaga ocasional conforme a se??o 15.3 (v) da Constitui??o da AFRINIC. O nome do Auditor ser? anunciado assim que as negocia??es do contrato forem finalizadas.



5. Atualiza??o na investiga??o de IP

Como mencionado no nosso an?ncio anterior sobre o assunto, o AFRINIC tem abordado a quest?o de atividades suspeitas no banco de dados WHOIS que afetaram alguns recursos.



Al?m da comunica??o da Diretoria durante o exerc?cio de Engajamento da Comunidade na reuni?o da AFRINIC 31, reafirmamos que a Diretoria iniciou investiga??es assim que soube do assunto. A quest?o foi trazida ? aten??o do Conselho pela primeira vez ap?s a ren?ncia do ex-CEO que informou o Conselho que poderia haver algumas altera??es n?o autorizadas no banco de dados WHOIS do AFRINIC e que as investiga??es internas estavam em andamento. O Conselho, em conjunto com a ger?ncia liderada pelo CEO Interino, decidiu procurar assist?ncia de um dos RIRs. Para garantir uma avalia??o independente e uma investiga??o interna, a APNIC foi selecionada para liderar as investiga??es. A APNIC apresentou um relat?rio que confirma algumas das alega??es. O assunto foi relatado ? Divis?o Central de Investiga??o Criminal da For?a Policial de Maur?cio na ter?a-feira, 10 de dezembro de 2019, para investiga??o e a??o adicionais. Infelizmente, n?o podemos, nesta fase, acrescentar mais nada sobre o assunto para n?o prejudicar a investiga??o policial em andamento.



Enquanto isso, o CEO tem a tarefa de instituir medidas internas para limitar o acesso e evitar a manipula??o de objetos no banco de dados WHOIS e suspender ou revogar partes implicadas e / ou suspeitas que tenham acesso ? infraestrutura, servi?os e outros recursos. A Diretoria est? considerando quais recursos adicionais seriam necess?rios durante o curso da investiga??o e a??o.



6. Sess?o de envolvimento da comunidade da diretoria

A Diretoria realizou seu segundo exerc?cio de Engajamento da Comunidade durante a reuni?o do AFRINIC 31, durante a qual os participantes levantaram v?rias quest?es. O Conselho tamb?m apresentou o novo CEO ? comunidade. Tamb?m apresentou v?rias perguntas, tanto no local quanto nos participantes remotamente da reuni?o.



7. Or?amento 2020

O Conselho aprovou o or?amento para o ano fiscal de 2020.

O or?amento de opera??es para 2020 toma conhecimento dos seguintes fatores:

? 2020 ? o ?ltimo ano do ciclo atual do Plano Estrat?gico 2016-2020.

? O AFRINIC est? chegando ? Fase 2 de Soft Landing.



Como resultado do exposto, adotou-se uma abordagem muito conservadora para derivar os n?meros e as atividades operacionais focadas nos objetivos que apareceram no Plano Estrat?gico, mas que ainda estavam para serem alcan?ados


A meta de receita de taxas para 2020 pressup?e que as novas ades?es continuar?o a crescer em um ritmo mais lento durante a segunda fase do Soft Landing.


Os custos operacionais or?ados para 2020 refletem a execu??o cont?nua do Plano Estrat?gico, mantendo altos padr?es de n?vel de servi?o.



O or?amento de Recursos Humanos inclui o refor?o da estrutura para atender ao aumento das expectativas. Uma nova ?rea de foco foi adicionada para reconhecer a necessidade de um maior envolvimento das partes interessadas. Al?m disso, aten??o especial est? sendo dada ao fortalecimento da infraestrutura da organiza??o.



8. Comit? de Reforma Ad-Hoc

A Diretoria formou um Comit? de Reforma Ad-Hoc ap?s consultas da comunidade iniciadas em Kampala durante a C?pula da Internet na ?frica em junho de 2019. A comiss?o avaliar? os desafios enfrentados pela AFRINIC e far? uma recomenda??o ? Diretoria. O Comit? ? composto por:

- Ex-CEOs da AFRINIC (Sr. Adiel Akplogan e Sr. Alan Barrett)

- Ex-presidente da AFRINIC (Dr. Viv Padayatchy)

- Representante do Comit? de Governan?a (Dr. Alioune Traore)

- representante do RIR (Sr. Paul Wilson, CEO APNIC)

- Representante do Conselho (Prof. Habib Youssef)



9. Revis?o de Taxas

O Conselho concluiu as discuss?es de revis?o de taxas da AFRINIC e decidiu que n?o haver? altera??es nas categorias de tarifas atuais. No entanto, com a fase 2 do Soft Landing se aproximando, a Diretoria introduziu duas novas categorias de taxas para tornar os requisitos da pol?tica do fase 2 do Soft Landing totalmente implement?veis.



Assinado



Dr. Christian D. Bope

Presidente do Conselho de Administra??o da AFRINIC

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From mamattah.raymond at gmail.com  Tue Dec 17 06:52:58 2019
From: mamattah.raymond at gmail.com (Raymond Mamattah)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 06:52:58 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Board Updates
In-Reply-To: <7CED7E7E-1899-45EC-9E50-C9407F6F6DF8@afrinic.net>
References: <7CED7E7E-1899-45EC-9E50-C9407F6F6DF8@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <CAEGCQGuNTxVPf6Cw7Dev6ZjVxpF4V+T+dpX3rKyhU=K7XFFekg@mail.gmail.com>

Wishing Eddy a success in his new role!


On Tue, 17 Dec 2019 at 06:16, AFRINIC Communication <
comm-announce at afrinic.net> wrote:

> AFRINIC Board of Directors
>
>
> Communique
>
>
> Cybercity, Ebene, Mauritius, 16 December 2019
>
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
>
> The Board would like to share the following information with the AFRINIC
> community at large.
>
>
> Completion of CEO search process
>
>
> After a rigorous recruitment process, the Board announced the appointment
> of Mr. Eddy Kayihura on 25 October 2019 as the new CEO to replace Mr. Alan
> Barrett who left the organisation in July 2019 after serving for almost
> five years. Eddy, 43, joined the company on 4 November 2019. The new CEO
> brings on board a wealth of experience acquired over a period of more than
> 20 years as a chief executive officer, chief information technology officer
> (CIO), a network engineer, software developer among other positions in the
> IT and Telecommunications industry. We request our members to offer Eddy
> the necessary support, space and autonomy he needs to successfully lead the
> organisation.
>
>
>
> 1. Strategic Plan
>
> The life of the current Strategic Plan 2016-2020 is coming to an end and
> there is a need to develop the next one. AFRINIC has published an
> assessment of the current Strategic Plan. We also launched consultations on
> the Strategic Plan 2021-2025 during AFRINIC 31. The consultation phase will
> be close on 30 April 2020. Please see the Strategic Plan 2016-2020
> assessment, and time plan for the development of the Strategic Plan
> 2021-2025 at https://afrinic.net/strategy#2016-2020.
>
>
>
> 2. Election guidelines
>
> AFRINIC has been holding public consultations on the Election Guideline.
> The deadline for comments was 13 December 2019. The Board will compile and
> incorporate the feedback in the final version of the Election Guideline.
>
>
>
> 3. Filling of casual vacancy for Eastern Africa (Seat 6)
>
> The seat on the Board for Eastern Africa has been vacant since October.
> The Board has decided to fill the seat according to the process followed in
> the past. Those interested in contesting the seat should fill the form
> found at
> https://registration.afrinic.net/elections/board-express-of-interest-201912
> .
>
>
>
> 4. External Auditor for Financial Year 2019
>
> AFRINIC has a statutory requirement to appoint an External Auditor. The
> External Auditor appointed for FY 2019 informed AFRINIC that it will be
> unavailable to conduct the exercise. On 28 October 2019, the Board received
> a resignation letter from PwC. In the letter, PwC stated that their
> resignation was based on their risk assessment without going into detail.
> On 5 November 2019, on behalf of the Board, the CEO wrote to PwC requesting
> further explanation. After waiting for over a month for feedback from PwC,
> the Board has decided to share the letter (accessible to members only).
> Further, AFRINIC has identified a new External Auditor to fill the casual
> vacancy as per section 15.3 (v) of the AFRINIC Constitution. The name of
> the Auditor will be announced once contract negotiations are finalised.
>
>
>
> 5. Update on IP investigation
>
> As mentioned in our previous announcement on the matter, AFRINIC has been
> addressing the issue of suspicious activities in the WHOIS database which
> affected some resources.
>
>
>
> Further to the Board?s communication during the Community Engagement
> exercise at the AFRINIC 31 meeting, we hereby re-affirm that the Board
> initiated investigations as soon as it learnt of the matter. The issue was
> first brought to the attention of the Board after the resignation of the
> former CEO who informed the Board that there might have been some
> unauthorised changes in the AFRINIC WHOIS database and that internal
> investigations were on-going. The Board, in conjunction with the management
> led by the Interim CEO, decided to seek assistance from one of the RIRs. In
> order to ensure an independent assessment and internal investigation, APNIC
> was selected to lead the investigations. APNIC submitted a report which
> confirms some of the allegations. The matter was reported to the Central
> Criminal Investigation Division of the Mauritius Police Force on Tuesday,
> 10 December 2019 for further investigation and action. Unfortunately, we
> cannot, at this stage, add anything more on the matter so as not to cause
> prejudice to the on-going police investigation.
>
>
>
> In the meantime, the CEO is tasked with instituting internal measures to
> limit access, and avoid manipulation of objects in WHOIS database and to
> suspend or revoke implicated and/or suspected parties who have access to
> infrastructure, services and other resources. The Board is considering what
> additional resources would be needed during the course of the investigation
> and action.
>
>
>
> 6. Board community engagement session
>
> The Board held its second Community Engagement exercise during the AFRINIC
> 31 meeting during which participants raised several issues. The Board also
> introduced the new CEO to the community. It also fielded several questions
> from both those on site and those attending the meeting remotely.
>
>
>
> 7. Budget 2020
>
> The Board approved the budget for FY 2020.
>
> The 2020 Operations budget take cognisance of the following factors:
>
> ? 2020 is the last year of the current cycle of the Strategic Plan
> 2016-2020.
>
> ? AFRINIC is hitting Soft Landing Phase 2.
>
>
>
> As a result of the above, a very conservative approach was adopted in
> deriving the numbers and operational activities focused on objectives which
> appeared on the Strategic Plan but were yet to be achieved
>
>
>
> 2020 Fee Revenue target assumes that new membership shall continue to grow
> at a slower pace during the second phase of the Soft Landing.
>
>
>
> The budgeted operating costs for 2020 reflects the continuing execution of
> the Strategic Plan while maintaining high standards of service level.
>
>
>
> Human Resources budget includes reinforcing the structure to cater for
> increased expectations. A new area of focus was added to recognise the need
> for increased stakeholder engagement. In addition, special attention is
> being paid to strengthening the organisation?s infrastructure.
>
>
>
> 8. Ad-Hoc Reform Committee
>
> The Board has formed an Ad-Hoc Reform Committee following community
> consultations that started in Kampala during the Africa Internet Summit in
> June 2019. The committee will assess the challenges facing AFRINIC and make
> a recommendation to the Board. The Committee is composed of:
>
> -  Past AFRINIC CEOs (Mr. Adiel Akplogan and Mr. Alan Barrett)
>
> -  Past AFRINIC Chair (Dr. Viv Padayatchy)
>
> -  Governance Committee representative (Dr. Alioune Traore)
>
> -  RIR representative (Mr. Paul Wilson, CEO APNIC)
>
> -  Board representative (Prof. Habib Youssef)
>
>
>
> 9. Fee Review
>
> The Board concluded AFRINIC fee review discussions and decided that there
> will be no change in the current fee categories. However, with the Soft
> Landing phase 2 approaching, the Board has introduced two new fee
> categories in order to make the Soft Landing phase 2 policy requirements
> fully implementable.
>
>
>
> Signed
>
>
>
> Dr. Christian D. Bope
>
> Chairman, AFRINIC Board of Directors
>
>
> ???????????????????????????????????...
>
>
> Conseil d'administration d'AFRINIC
>
>
> Communiqu?
>
>
> Cybercity, Ebene, Maurice, 16 d?cembre 2019
>
>
> Chers coll?gues,
>
>
> Le Conseil souhaite partager les informations suivantes avec l?ensemble de
> la communaut? AFRINIC.
>
> Processus de recherche du DG compl?t?
>
> Apr?s un processus de recrutement rigoureux, le Conseil a annonc? la
> nomination de M. Eddy Kayihura le 25 octobre 2019 en tant que nouveau DG
> pour remplacer M. Alan Barrett qui a quitt? l'organisation en juillet 2019
> apr?s avoir servi pendant pr?s de cinq ans. Eddy, 43 ans, a rejoint
> l'entreprise le 4 novembre 2019. Le nouveau DG apporte une riche
> d'exp?rience acquise sur une p?riode de plus de 20 ans en tant que DG,
> Chief Information Technology Officer (CIO), ing?nieur r?seau,  d?veloppeur
> de logiciel parmi d'autres postes dans l'industrie informatique et des
> t?l?communications. Nous demandons ? nos membres d'offrir ? Eddy le
> soutien, l'espace et l'autonomie n?cessaires pour diriger avec succ?s
> l'organisation.
>
> 1. Plan strat?gique
>
> Le cycle de l'actuel Plan strat?gique 2016-2020 tire ? sa fin et il est
> n?cessaire de d?velopper le prochain. AFRINIC a publi? une ?valuation du
> plan strat?gique actuel. Nous avons ?galement lanc? des consultations sur
> le Plan strat?gique 2021-2025 pendant AFRINIC 31. La phase de consultation
> se terminera le 30 avril 2020. Veuillez consulter l'?valuation du Plan
> strat?gique 2016-2020 et le calendrier pour l'?laboration du Plan
> strat?gique 2021-2025 ? l'adresse https://afrinic.net/strategy#2016-2020.
>
> 2. Lignes directrices pour les ?lections
>
> AFRINIC a tenu des consultations publiques pour une ?valuation de son
> prcessus ?lectoral. La date limite pour les commentaires ?tait le 13
> d?cembre 2019. Le Conseil d'administration compilera et incorporera les
> commentaires dans la version finale du document.
>
> 3. Emploi vacant occasionnel pour l'Afrique de l'Est (si?ge 6)
>
> Le si?ge au Conseil d'administration pour l'Afrique de l'Est est vacant
> depuis octobre. Le Conseil a d?cid? de pourvoir le si?ge selon le processus
> suivi dans le pass?. Les personnes int?ress?es ? contester le si?ge doivent
> remplir le formulaire disponible sur
> https://registration.afrinic.net/elections/board-express-of-interest-201912
> .
>
> 4. Commissaire aux comptes pour l'exercice 2019
>
> AFRINIC a une obligation l?gale de nommer un Commissaire aux comptes.
> L'auditeur externe nomm? pour l'exercice 2019 a inform? AFRINIC qu'il ne
> serait pas disponible ? mener l'exercice. Le 28 octobre 2019, le Conseil a
> re?u une lettre de d?mission de PwC. Dans la lettre, PwC a d?clar? que sa
> d?mission ?tait fond?e sur son ?valuation des risques sans entrer dans les
> d?tails. Le 5 novembre 2019, au nom du conseil d'administration, le DG a
> ?crit ? PwC pour lui demander des explications suppl?mentaires. Apr?s  plus
> d'un mois d?attente, apr?s avoir re?u les explications de PwC, le Conseil a
> aussit?t pris la d?cision de partager la lettre  uniquement aux membres).
> En outre, AFRINIC a identifi? un nouvel auditeur externe pour combler une
> vacance occasionnelle conform?ment ? la section 15.3 (v) de la Constitution
> d?AFRINIC. L'auditeur sera annonc? une fois les n?gociations contractuelles
> finalis?es.
>
>
> 5. Mise ? jour de l'enqu?te sur les adresses IP
>
> Comme mentionn? dans notre pr?c?dente annonce ? ce sujet, AFRINIC a abord?
> la question des activit?s suspectes dans la base de donn?es WHOIS qui ont
> affect? certaines ressources.
>
> Suivant la communication du Conseil au cours de la s?ance d'engagement
> communautaire lors de la r?union d'AFRINIC 31, nous r?affirmons par la
> pr?sente que le Conseil a ouvert une enqu?te d?s qu'il a eu connaissance de
> l'affaire. La question a ?t? port?e pour la premi?re fois ? l'attention du
> Conseil d'administration apr?s la d?mission de l'ancien DG qui a inform? le
> Conseil d'administration du fait qu'il pourrait y avoir eu des changements
> non autoris?s dans la base de donn?es WHOIS AFRINIC et que des enqu?tes
> internes ?taient en cours. Le conseil, en collaboration avec la direction,
> sous la tutelle du DG par int?rim, a pris la d?cision de demander l'aide
> d'un des RIR. Pour assurer une ?valuation ind?pendante ? travers une
> enqu?te interne, l'APNIC a ?t? s?lectionn?e pour mener les enqu?tes.
> L'APNIC a soumis un rapport qui confirme certaines des all?gations.
> L'affaire a ?t? signal?e ? la Division centrale des enqu?tes criminelles
> des forces de police de Maurice le mardi 10 d?cembre 2019 pour le
> compl?ment d'enqu?te et la suite ? donner. Malheureusement, nous ne
> pouvons, ? ce stade, rien ajouter de plus ? ce sujet afin de ne pas porter
> pr?judice ? l'enqu?te polici?re en cours.
>
> Dans l?intervalle, le DG est charg? d'instaurer des mesures internes pour
> limiter l'acc?s et ?viter la manipulation d'objets dans la base de donn?es
> WHOIS et pour suspendre ou r?voquer les parties impliqu?es et / ou
> suspectes qui ont acc?s ? l'infrastructure, aux services et ? d'autres
> ressources. Le Conseil examine actuellement les ressources suppl?mentaires
> et les actions qui seraient n?cessaires ? la contribution de l?enqu?te.
>
> 6. S?ance d'engagement communautaire du conseil
>
> Le Conseil a tenu sa deuxi?me s?ance d'engagement communautaire lors de la
> r?union AFRINIC 31 au cours de laquelle les participants ont soulev?
> plusieurs questions. Le conseil a ?galement pr?sent? le nouveau DG ? la
> communaut?. Il a ?galement r?pondu ? plusieurs questions des personnes
> pr?sentes sur place et des participants ? distance ? la r?union.
>
> 7. Budget 2020
>
> Le Conseil a approuv? le budget pour l'exercice 2020.
> Le budget des op?rations 2020 tient compte des facteurs suivants:
> ? 2020 est la derni?re ann?e du cycle actuel du Plan strat?gique 2016-2020.
> ? AFRINIC atteindra la phase 2 du soft landing.
>
> De ce fait, une approche tr?s conservatrice a ?t? adopt?e afin de soutenir
> les activit?s et chiffres op?rationnelles ax?s sur les objectifs qui
> figuraient dans le Plan strat?gique mais qui n'?taient pas encore atteints.
>
> Nous pr?voyons pour l?ann?e 2020 une r?duction de nos revenus provenant
> des cotisations des nouveaux membres durant la deuxi?me phase du soft
> landing.
>
> Les co?ts op?rationels budg?tis? pour 2020 refl?tent la poursuite de
> l'ex?cution du plan strat?gique en accord avec le maintien de nos standards
> de service ?lev?s.
>
> Le budget des ressources humaines comprend le renforcement de la structure
> organisationnelle afin de r?pondre aux attentes accrues. Un nouveau aspect
> organisationel a ?t? ajout? pour reconna?tre la n?cessit? d'un engagement
> plus soutenu des parties prenantes. En outre, une attention particuli?re
> est aussi accord?e au renforcement de l?infrastructure de l?organisation.
>
>
> 8. Comit? de r?forme ad hoc
>
> Le Conseil a form? un comit? de r?forme ad hoc ? la suite des
> consultations avec la communaut? qui ont commenc? ? Kampala lors de
> l?AIS?19 en juin 2019. Le comit? ?valuera les d?fis auxquels est confront?
> AFRINIC et fera une recommandation au Conseil. Le Comit? est compos?:
> - d'anciens DG d'AFRINIC (M. Adiel Akplogan et M. Alan Barrett)
> - d?un ancien pr?sident AFRINIC (Dr Viv Padayatchy)
> - d?un repr?sentant du comit? de gouvernance (Dr. Alioune Traor?)
> - d?un repr?sentant RIR (M. Paul Wilson, PDG APNIC)
> - d?un repr?sentant du Conseil (Prof. Habib Youssef)
>
> 9. R?vision des tarifs
>
> Le Conseil a conclu les discussions sur la r?vision des tarifs AFRINIC et
> a d?cid? qu'il n'y aura aucun changement dans les cat?gories de tarifs
> actuelles. Cependant, ? l'approche de la phase 2 du soft landing, le
> Conseil a introduit deux nouvelles cat?gories de cotisations afin de rendre
> les exigences de la politique soft landing pleinement applicables.
>
>
> Sign?
>
>
> Dr Christian D. Bope
> Pr?sident du conseil d'administration d?AFRINIC
>
> ????????????????.
>
>
> ???? ????
>
>
> Cybercity ? Ebene ? ???????? ? 16 ?????? 2019
>
>
> ?????? ????????
>
> ??? ???? ??????? ?????? ????????? ??????? ?? ????? AFRINIC ???? ???.
>
>
> ???????? ?? ????? ????? ?????? ????????
>
>
> ??? ????? ????? ????? ? ???? ???? ??????? ????? ????? ??? ???????? ?? 25
> ?????? 2019 ????? ?????? ???? ???? ??? ????? ???? ????? ???? ???? ???????
> ?? ????? 2019 ??? ?? ??? ???? ??? ????? ???????. ???? ??? ? 43 ????? ? ???
> ?????? ?? 4 ?????? 2019. ???? ?????? ???????? ?????? ???? ?? ??????
> ???????? ??? ???? ???? ?? 20 ????? ????? ?????? ????? ?????? ?????
> ????????? (CIO) ? ????? ????? ? ????? ?????? ?? ??? ??????? ?????? ?? ?????
> ????????? ????????? ??????????. ???? ?? ??????? ?? ?????? ??? Eddy ?????
> ?????? ??????? ?????? ?????? ???? ?????? ?????? ??????? ?????.
>
>
>
> 1. ????? ????????????
>
> ????? ??? ????? ???????????? ??????? 2016-2020 ?? ??????? ????? ???? ???
> ????? ????? ???????. ???? AFRINIC ???? ????? ????? ???????????? ???????.
> ??? ?????? ??????? ??? ????? ???????????? 2021-2025 ???? AFRINIC 31. ??????
> ????? ??????? ?? 30 ????? 2020. ???? ??????? ??? ????? ????? ????????????
> 2016-2020 ? ?????? ??????? ?????? ????? ???????????? 2021-2025 ??
> https://afrinic.net/strategy#2016-2020.
>
>
>
> 2. ??????? ????????? ??????????
>
> ???? AFRINIC ??????? ???? ??? ??????? ????????? ??????????. ??? ??????
> ??????? ????????? ?? 13 ?????? 2019. ????? ???? ??????? ?????? ??????
> ????????? ?? ?????? ???????? ?? ???? ??????????.
>
>
>
> 3. ??? ???? ???? ???? ??????? (?????? 6)
>
> ?? ???? ???? ????? ??? ??????? ?????? ??? ??????. ??? ???? ??????? ???
> ?????? ????? ??????? ??????? ?? ??????. ??? ???????? ?? ??? ?????? ???
> ????????? ???????? ??? ??????
> https://registration.afrinic.net/elections/board-express-of-interest-201912
> .
>
> 4. ??????? ??????? ????? ??????? 2019
>
> ??? AFRINIC ??? ?????? ?????? ???? ?????. ???? ??????? ??????? ??????? ??
> ????? ??????? 2019 AFRINIC ??? ?? ???? ?????? ????? ???????. ?? 28 ??????
> 2019 ? ???? ???? ??????? ???? ??????? ?? ???? PwC. ?? ??????? ? ???? ????
> ????? ???????? ????? ?? ????????? ???? ????? ??? ????? ??????? ??? ????? ??
> ????????. ?? 5 ?????? 2019 ? ????? ?? ???? ??????? ? ??? ?????? ????????
> ????? PwC ???? ?????? ?? ???????. ??? ???????? ????? ?? ??? ????? ?????????
> ?? PwC ? ??? ???? ??????? ?????? ??????? (???? ??????? ?????? ????? ???).
> ????? ??? ??? ? ???? AFRINIC ??????? ??????? ?????? ???? ??????? ???????
> ????? ?????? 15.3 (5) ?? ????? AFRINIC. ???? ??????? ?? ??? ??????? ?????
> ???????? ?? ??????? ??????.
>
>
> 5. ????? ??? ??????? IP
>
> ??? ????? ?? ??????? ?????? ??? ??????? ? ????? AFRINIC ????? ???????
> ???????? ?? ????? ?????? WHOIS ????? ???? ??? ??? ???????.
>
>
>
> ???????? ??? ????? ?????? ????? ?????? ???????? ????????? ?? ??????
> AFRINIC 31 ? ???? ?? ???? ?? ?????? ??? ????????? ????? ???? ???? ?????. ??
> ??? ??????? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ??????? ?????? ???????? ?????? ???? ????
> ?????? ??? ?? ???? ???? ??? ????????? ??? ?????? ??? ?? ????? ?????? WHOIS
> AFRINIC ??? ????????? ???????? ???? ?????. ??? ???? ??????? ? ????????? ??
> ??????? ???? ?????? ?????? ???????? ?????? ? ??? ???????? ?? ??? ?????
> ???????? ?????????. ?? ??? ???? ????? ????? ????? ?????? ????? ? ?? ??????
> APNIC ?????? ?????????. ???? APNIC ?????? ???? ??? ?????????. ??????? ???
> ??????? ??? ???? ????????? ???????? ???????? ??????? ???? ???? ???????? ???
> ???????? ? 10 ????? ????? / ?????? 2019 ????? ?? ????????? ??????????. ????
> ???? ? ?? ?????? ? ?? ??? ??????? ? ????? ?? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??????? ??? ??
> ????? ?? ???? ??????? ?????? ?? ??? ??????.
>
>
>
> ?? ???? ??? ? ???? ?????? ???????? ???? ?????? ?????? ???? ?? ?????? ?
> ????? ??????? ???????? ?? ????? ?????? WHOIS ?????? ?? ????? ???????
> ???????? ? / ?? ??????? ??? ????? ????? ??????? ?????? ??? ?????? ???????
> ???????? ???????? ??????. ???? ???? ??????? ??????? ???????? ???????? ?????
> ??????? ??????????.
>
>
>
> 6. ???? ?????? ???? ???????
>
> ??? ???? ??????? ?????? ?????? ???????? ????????? ???? ?????? AFRINIC 31
> ???? ???? ????????? ????? ?????? ?? ???????. ??? ???? ??????? ????? ??????
> ???????? ?????? ??? ???????. ??? ??? ?????? ?? ??????? ?? ?? ?? ?? ??????
> ???? ???? ???? ???????? ?? ???.
>
> 7. ??????? 2020
>
> ???? ???? ??????? ??? ??????? ????? ??????? 2020.
>
> ???? ??????? ?????? ??? 2020 ?? ???????? ??????? ???????:
>
> ? 2020 ?? ??? ??? ?? ?????? ??????? ????? ???????????? 2016-2020.
>
> ? AFRINIC ??? ??? Soft Landing Phase 2.
>
>
>
> ????? ??? ??? ? ?? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ??????? ??????? ????????
> ????????? ???? ???? ??? ??????? ???? ???? ?? ????? ???????????? ???? ??
> ????? ???
>
>
>
> 2020 ????? ??? ???? ????????? ?? ????? ??????? ??????? ?? ????? ??????
> ???? ???? ??????? ??????? ?? ?????? ??????.
>
>
>
> ???? ?????? ??????? ??????? ?? ????????? ???? 2020 ??????? ????? ?????
> ???????????? ?? ?????? ??? ??????? ????? ?? ????? ??????.
>
>
>
> ????? ??????? ??????? ??????? ????? ?????? ?????? ???????? ?????????. ???
> ????? ???? ????? ???? ?????? ??? ?????? ??? ????? ?????? ????? ???????.
> ???????? ??? ??? ? ??? ????? ?????? ??? ?????? ?????? ??????? ???????.
>
> 8. ???? ??????? ???????
>
> ??? ???? ??????? ?????? ???? ????? ????? ??? ??????? ??????? ???? ???? ??
> ?????? ???? ??? ???????? ?? ??????? ?? ????? 2019. ????? ?????? ??????
> ???????? ???? ????? AFRINIC ?????? ????? ??? ??????. ????? ?????? ??:
>
> - ???????? ?????????? ???????? ???????? (????? ???? ???????? ?????? ????
> ?????)
>
> - ???? AFRINIC ?????? (?. ??? ?????????)
>
> - ???? ???? ??????? (?. ????? ??????)
>
> - ???? RIR (????? ??? ?????? ? ?????? ???????? ????? APNIC)
>
> - ???? ???? ??????? (?. ???? ????)
>
>
>
> 9. ?????? ??????
>
> ????? ???? ??????? ??????? ?????? ???? AFRINIC ???? ??? ?? ???? ???? ?????
> ?? ???? ?????? ???????. ??? ??? ? ?? ?????? ??????? ??????? ?? Soft Softing
> ? ???? ???? ??????? ????? ??????? ?? ?????? ?? ??? ??? ??????? ????? Soft
> Landing 2 ????? ??????? ???????.
>
>
>
> ????
>
>
>
> ??????? ???????? ?
>
>
> ???? ???? ????? ??????
>
> ?????????????????????????????????????????????????
>
>
>
> Comunicado
>
>
> Cybercity, Ebene, Mauritius, 16 de dezembro de 2019
>
>
> Queridos colegas,
>
> A Diretoria gostaria de compartilhar as seguintes informa??es com a
> comunidade AFRINIC em geral.
>
>
> Conclus?o do processo de busca do CEO
>
>
> Ap?s um processo rigoroso de recrutamento, o Conselho anunciou a nomea??o
> do Sr. Eddy Kayihura em 25 de outubro de 2019 como o novo CEO para
> substituir o Sr. Alan Barrett, que deixou a organiza??o em julho de 2019,
> depois de servir por quase cinco anos. Eddy, 43 anos, ingressou na empresa
> em 4 de novembro de 2019. O novo CEO traz uma vasta experi?ncia adquirida
> ao longo de um per?odo de mais de 20 anos como CEO, CIO, engenheiro de rede
> e software. desenvolvedor entre outras posi??es no setor de TI e
> telecomunica??es. Solicitamos que nossos membros ofere?am a Eddy o suporte,
> o espa?o e a autonomia necess?rios para liderar a organiza??o com sucesso.
>
>
>
> 1. Plano Estrat?gico
>
> A vida do atual Plano Estrat?gico 2016-2020 est? chegando ao fim e ?
> necess?rio desenvolver o pr?ximo. A AFRINIC publicou uma avalia??o do atual
> Plano Estrat?gico. Tamb?m lan?amos consultas sobre o Plano Estrat?gico
> 2021-2025 durante o AFRINIC 31. A fase de consulta ser? encerrada em 30 de
> abril de 2020. Consulte a avalia??o do Plano Estrat?gico 2016-2020 e o
> cronograma para o desenvolvimento do Plano Estrat?gico 2021-2025 em
> https://afrinic.net/strategy#2016-2020.
>
>
>
> 2. Diretrizes eleitorais
>
> A AFRINIC vem realizando consultas p?blicas sobre as Diretrizes
> Eleitorais. O prazo final para coment?rios foi 13 de dezembro de 2019. O
> Conselho ir? compilar e incorporar o feedback na vers?o final das
> Diretrizes Eleitorais.
>
>
>
> 3. Preenchimento de vagas ocasionais na ?frica Oriental (sede 6)
>
> A vaga no Conselho para a ?frica Oriental est? vaga desde outubro. O
> Conselho decidiu preencher a vaga de acordo com o processo seguido no
> passado. Os interessados ??em contestar a vaga devem preencher o formul?rio
> encontrado em
> https://registration.afrinic.net/elections/board-express-of-interest-201912
> .
>
> 4. Auditor Externo para o Exerc?cio de 2019
>
> A AFRINIC tem um requisito estatut?rio para nomear um Auditor Externo. O
> Auditor Externo designado para o EF de 2019 informou a AFRINIC de que n?o
> estar? dispon?vel para realizar o exerc?cio. Em 28 de outubro de 2019, o
> Conselho recebeu uma carta de demiss?o da PwC. Na carta, a PwC declarou que
> sua demiss?o se baseava na avalia??o de risco sem entrar em detalhes. Em 5
> de novembro de 2019, em nome do Conselho, o CEO escreveu ? PwC solicitando
> mais explica??es. Depois de esperar mais de um m?s para receber coment?rios
> da PwC, o Conselho decidiu compartilhar a carta (acess?vel apenas aos
> membros). Al?m disso, a AFRINIC identificou um novo Auditor Externo para
> preencher a vaga ocasional conforme a se??o 15.3 (v) da Constitui??o da
> AFRINIC. O nome do Auditor ser? anunciado assim que as negocia??es do
> contrato forem finalizadas.
>
>
>
> 5. Atualiza??o na investiga??o de IP
>
> Como mencionado no nosso an?ncio anterior sobre o assunto, o AFRINIC tem
> abordado a quest?o de atividades suspeitas no banco de dados WHOIS que
> afetaram alguns recursos.
>
>
>
> Al?m da comunica??o da Diretoria durante o exerc?cio de Engajamento da
> Comunidade na reuni?o da AFRINIC 31, reafirmamos que a Diretoria iniciou
> investiga??es assim que soube do assunto. A quest?o foi trazida ? aten??o
> do Conselho pela primeira vez ap?s a ren?ncia do ex-CEO que informou o
> Conselho que poderia haver algumas altera??es n?o autorizadas no banco de
> dados WHOIS do AFRINIC e que as investiga??es internas estavam em
> andamento. O Conselho, em conjunto com a ger?ncia liderada pelo CEO
> Interino, decidiu procurar assist?ncia de um dos RIRs. Para garantir uma
> avalia??o independente e uma investiga??o interna, a APNIC foi selecionada
> para liderar as investiga??es. A APNIC apresentou um relat?rio que confirma
> algumas das alega??es. O assunto foi relatado ? Divis?o Central de
> Investiga??o Criminal da For?a Policial de Maur?cio na ter?a-feira, 10 de
> dezembro de 2019, para investiga??o e a??o adicionais. Infelizmente, n?o
> podemos, nesta fase, acrescentar mais nada sobre o assunto para n?o
> prejudicar a investiga??o policial em andamento.
>
>
>
> Enquanto isso, o CEO tem a tarefa de instituir medidas internas para
> limitar o acesso e evitar a manipula??o de objetos no banco de dados WHOIS
> e suspender ou revogar partes implicadas e / ou suspeitas que tenham acesso
> ? infraestrutura, servi?os e outros recursos. A Diretoria est? considerando
> quais recursos adicionais seriam necess?rios durante o curso da
> investiga??o e a??o.
>
>
>
> 6. Sess?o de envolvimento da comunidade da diretoria
>
> A Diretoria realizou seu segundo exerc?cio de Engajamento da Comunidade
> durante a reuni?o do AFRINIC 31, durante a qual os participantes levantaram
> v?rias quest?es. O Conselho tamb?m apresentou o novo CEO ? comunidade.
> Tamb?m apresentou v?rias perguntas, tanto no local quanto nos participantes
> remotamente da reuni?o.
>
>
>
> 7. Or?amento 2020
>
> O Conselho aprovou o or?amento para o ano fiscal de 2020.
>
> O or?amento de opera??es para 2020 toma conhecimento dos seguintes fatores:
>
> ? 2020 ? o ?ltimo ano do ciclo atual do Plano Estrat?gico 2016-2020.
>
> ? O AFRINIC est? chegando ? Fase 2 de Soft Landing.
>
>
>
> Como resultado do exposto, adotou-se uma abordagem muito conservadora para
> derivar os n?meros e as atividades operacionais focadas nos objetivos que
> apareceram no Plano Estrat?gico, mas que ainda estavam para serem alcan?ados
>
>
> A meta de receita de taxas para 2020 pressup?e que as novas ades?es
> continuar?o a crescer em um ritmo mais lento durante a segunda fase do Soft
> Landing.
>
>
> Os custos operacionais or?ados para 2020 refletem a execu??o cont?nua do
> Plano Estrat?gico, mantendo altos padr?es de n?vel de servi?o.
>
>
>
> O or?amento de Recursos Humanos inclui o refor?o da estrutura para atender
> ao aumento das expectativas. Uma nova ?rea de foco foi adicionada para
> reconhecer a necessidade de um maior envolvimento das partes interessadas.
> Al?m disso, aten??o especial est? sendo dada ao fortalecimento da
> infraestrutura da organiza??o.
>
>
>
> 8. Comit? de Reforma Ad-Hoc
>
> A Diretoria formou um Comit? de Reforma Ad-Hoc ap?s consultas da
> comunidade iniciadas em Kampala durante a C?pula da Internet na ?frica em
> junho de 2019. A comiss?o avaliar? os desafios enfrentados pela AFRINIC e
> far? uma recomenda??o ? Diretoria. O Comit? ? composto por:
>
> - Ex-CEOs da AFRINIC (Sr. Adiel Akplogan e Sr. Alan Barrett)
>
> - Ex-presidente da AFRINIC (Dr. Viv Padayatchy)
>
> - Representante do Comit? de Governan?a (Dr. Alioune Traore)
>
> - representante do RIR (Sr. Paul Wilson, CEO APNIC)
>
> - Representante do Conselho (Prof. Habib Youssef)
>
>
>
> 9. Revis?o de Taxas
>
> O Conselho concluiu as discuss?es de revis?o de taxas da AFRINIC e decidiu
> que n?o haver? altera??es nas categorias de tarifas atuais. No entanto, com
> a fase 2 do Soft Landing se aproximando, a Diretoria introduziu duas novas
> categorias de taxas para tornar os requisitos da pol?tica do fase 2 do Soft
> Landing totalmente implement?veis.
>
>
>
> Assinado
>
>
>
> Dr. Christian D. Bope
>
> Presidente do Conselho de Administra??o da AFRINIC
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
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From comm-announce at afrinic.net  Tue Dec 17 12:36:11 2019
From: comm-announce at afrinic.net (AFRINIC Communication)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 16:36:11 +0400
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Call for Expression of Interest for Board
	position
Message-ID: <F8986511-AA5C-443F-A20D-20A8937A7C32@afrinic.net>

[French, Arabic and Portuguese versions below]


Dear AFRINIC Members and Community,



The AFRINIC Board hereby calls for expression of interest from persons who wish to be considered for appointment to the Board for the seat for Eastern Africa (Seat 6) as per Article 13.14 of the AFRINIC Bylaws. The appointment will last until the next AFRINIC AGMM scheduled for June 2020



Phase 1 - Call for expression of interest



If you would like to be considered for the vacant seat, please complete the form at <https://registration.afrinic.net/elections/board-express-of-interest-201912 <https://registration.afrinic.net/elections/board-express-of-interest-201912> > no later than 23:59 UTC 30 December 2019.



Anyone who expresses interest shall:

  ?    Have at least five (5) years professional experience in an area relevant to AFRINIC activities, such as Internet Resource Management, ICT, policy development, finance, audit or HR management, etc.;


  ?    Be available and committed to participate in Board meetings and other AFRINIC activities (face-to-face and online).




The following requirements as per Article 13.10 of the AFRINIC Bylaws will be strictly observed:



13.10. No person shall be appointed or hold office as a Director if the person:

(i) is under 18 years of age;

(ii) is an undischarged bankrupt;

(iii) would, but for the repeal of Section 117 of the Companies Act 1984 of Mauritius, be prohibited from being a Director or promoter of, or being concerned or taking part in the management of, a company within the meaning of that Act;

(iv) is prohibited from being a director or promoter of or being concerned or taking part in the management of a company under Sections 337 or 338 of the Act;

(v) is not a natural person; or

(vi) has been adjudged to have been of unsound mind.



The Board further intends to apply the guidelines of Article 13.12 of the AFRINIC Bylaws, to the extent that they are appropriate:



13.12 [...]  the following additional conditions shall apply to candidates wishing to be considered for the position:

(i) previous Board or organisational leadership experience;

(ii) skills in business management and leadership;

(iii) fundraising for not-for-profit organisations experience;

(iv) network operations and Internet services experience; and

(v) international Business development experience.



The appointment will be conducted as per the following process:  



Phase 2 - Public consultations

The Board shall provide the opportunity, and request feedback from the community.



Those eligible for appointment as per section 13.10 of the AFRINIC Bylaws shall be identified from those who have submitted EOI as indicated in Phase 1 above.



Candidates will be required to provide references supporting their EOI from two AFRINIC resource members in good standing. A member in good standing cannot support more than one candidate irrespective of the region.



Candidates will be required to consent to their information being published. Information about candidates will be published for public comment for a period of one week.



Phase 3 - Selection

The Board shall proceed to select the appointee from the pool of candidates to fill the vacant position on the Board. The following criteria will be considered:



Feedback received from the community (as per Phase 1 of the process);

Section 13.12 of the AFRINIC Bylaws.



This phase shall be concluded within one (1) week after public consultations end. The person appointed will be announced to the community immediately thereafter.



Best Regards,



Christian D. Bope, PhD

Chairman, AFRINIC Board

?????????????????.



Chers membres et communaut? AFRINIC,

Le Conseil d?administration d'AFRINIC lance un appel ? manifestation d?int?r?t aux personnes souhaitant ?tre prises en consid?ration pour une nomination au Conseil d?administration pour le si?ge pour l?Afrique de L'Est (Si?ge 6), conform?ment ? l'article 13.14 des Statuts AFRINIC. Toute nomination ? ce si?ge vacant sera pour une p?riode allant jusqu'? la prochaine AGMM AFRINIC pr?vue en juin 2020.

Phase 1 - Appel ? manifestation d?int?r?t

Si vous souhaitez ?tre pris en consid?ration pour le si?ge vacant, veuillez remplir le formulaire ? <https://registration.afrinic.net/elections/board-express-of-interest-201912 <https://registration.afrinic.net/elections/board-express-of-interest-201912>> au plus tard ? 23 h 59 UTC le 30 d?cembre 2019 .

Toute personne qui exprime un int?r?t doit :

 ? Avoir au moins cinq (5) ans d'exp?rience professionnelle dans un domaine pertinent aux activit?s d'AFRINIC, telles que la gestion des ressources Internet, les TIC, le d?veloppement de politiques, les finances, l'audit ou la gestion des ressources humaines;
 ? ?tre disponible et engag? ? participer aux r?unions du Conseil et aux autres activit?s d'AFRINIC (en face-?-face et en ligne).

Les exigences suivantes conform?ment ? l'article 13.10 des statuts d'AFRINIC seront strictement respect?es:

13.10 Nul ne peut ?tre nomm? ou occuper un poste  d'administrateur si il / elle est une personne qui:
(i) a moins de 18 ans d??ge;
(ii) est un failli non r?habilit?;
(iii) si ce n'?tait pour l'abrogation de l'article 117 de la Loi sur les soci?t?s de 1984 de Maurice, ?tre interdit d'?tre un administrateur ou promoteur, ou ?tre concern? ou prendre part ? la direction d'une entreprise au sens de cette loi;
(iv) Il est interdit d'?tre un administrateur ou un promoteur de ou ?tant concern? ou de prendre part ? la gestion d'une soci?t? en vertu des articles 337 ou 338 de la Loi;
(v) n'est pas une personne physique, ou
(vi) dont il est attest? que des facult?s mentales ont ?t? jug?es alt?r?es.

Le Conseil a en outre l'intention d'appliquer les directives de l'article 13.12 des statuts d'AFRINIC, dans la mesure o? elles le jugent appropri?:

13.12 [...]les conditions suppl?mentaires suivantes relatives ? l'?ligibilit? des candidats au poste du Conseil d'administration:
(i) une exp?rience ant?rieure au sein d'un Conseil d'administration ou en leadership organisationnel;
(ii) des comp?tences en gestion d'entreprise et en leadership;
(iii) une exp?rience en mobilisation de capitaux pour les organisations ? but non lucratif ;
(iv) une exp?rience en gestion de r?seau ainsi que des services Internet; et
(v) une exp?rience en d?veloppement du commerce international.

La nomination sera effectu?e selon le processus suivant:

Phase 2 - Consultations publiques

Le conseil d'administration doit donner l'occasion et solliciter la r?troaction de la communaut?.


Les personnes ?ligibles ? une nomination conform?ment ? l'article 13.10 des statuts d'AFRINIC doivent ?tre identifi?es parmi celles qui ont soumis une d?claration d'int?r?t comme indiqu? dans la phase 1 ci-dessus.


Les candidats seront tenus de fournir des r?f?rences ? l'appui de leur DI de deux membres ressources AFRINIC en r?gle. Un membre en r?gle ne peut soutenir plus d'un candidat, quelle que soit la r?gion.


Les candidats devront consentir ? la publication de leurs informations. Les informations sur les candidats seront publi?es pour commentaires du public pendant une p?riode d'une semaine.



Phase 3 - S?lection

Le conseil proc?de ? la s?lection de la personne nomm?e dans le bassin de candidats pour combler les postes vacants au conseil. Les crit?res suivants seront pris en compte:


Commentaires re?us de la communaut? (conform?ment ? la phase 1 du processus);

Article 13.12 des statuts d?AFRINIC.


Cette phase doit ?tre termin?e dans un d?lai d'une (1) semaine apr?s la fin des consultations publiques. La personne nomm?e sera annonc?e ? la communaut? imm?diatement apr?s.



Cordialement,


Christian D. Bope, PhD

Pr?sident du conseil d'administration d?AFRINIC

???????????????????????..

?????? ??????? ????????



???? ???? AFRINIC ?????? ??? ??????? ?? ???????? ?? ??????? ????? ?????? ?? ????? ?? ??????? ?? ???? ??????? ????? ??? ??????? (?????? 6) ????? ?????? 13.14 ?? ????? AFRINIC. ?????? ?????? ??? ?????? AFRINIC AGMM ?????? ?????? ?? ????? 2020



??????? 1 - ???? ??????? ?? ????????



??? ??? ???? ?? ?????? ??? ???? ???? ? ?????? ??? ????????? ??? <https://registration.afrinic.net/elections/board-express-of-interest-201912 <https://registration.afrinic.net/elections/board-express-of-interest-201912>> ?? ???? ?? ?????? 23:59 UTC 30 ?????? 2019 .



??? ??? ?? ??? ???? ?? ????????:

  ? ???? ???? ????? ?? ??? ?? ??? (5) ????? ?? ???? ?? ??? ?????? AFRINIC ? ??? ????? ????? ???????? ? ?????????? ????????? ?????????? ? ???? ???????? ? ???????? ? ???????? ?? ????? ??????? ??????? ? ??? ??? ??? ?

  ? ?? ?????? ???????? ????????? ?? ???????? ???? ??????? ?????? AFRINIC ?????? (????? ???? ???? ????????).



???? ?????? ?????? ??????? ??????? ????? ?????? 13.10 ?? ????? AFRINIC:



13.10. ?? ???? ????? ?? ??? ?? ??? ????? ????? ??? ??? ?????:

(1) ??? ?? 18 ????? ?

(2) ????? ??? ???? ???? ?

(3) ???? ? ???? ?????? ?????? 117 ?? ????? ??????? ???? 1984 ????????? ? ?? ?? ???? ?????? ?? ?????? ?? ????? ?? ????? ?? ????? ???? ??????? ??????? ?? ??? ??????? ?

(4) ????? ?? ?? ???? ?????? ?? ?????? ?? ?????? ?? ????? ?? ????? ???? ????? ???????? 337 ?? 338 ?? ??????? ?

(5) ??? ????? ??????? ? ??

(?????) ?? ?? ????? ???? ????? ?? ????? ??? ??????.



????? ???? ??????? ???? ????? ????????? ??????? ?? ?????? 13.12 ?? ??????? ???????? ? ??? ???? ???? ???? ??? ??????:



13.12 [...] ???? ?????? ???????? ??????? ??? ???????? ???????? ?? ????? ?? ??? ??????:

(1) ???? ????? ?? ???? ??????? ?? ??????? ????????? ?

(2) ???????? ?? ????? ??????? ???????? ?

(3) ??? ??????? ?????? ???????? ??? ??????? ????? ?

(4) ?????? ????? ??????? ?????? ????? ???????? ? ?

(v) ????? ????? ??????? ???????.



???? ????? ?????? ????? ??????? ???????:

??????? 2 - ????????? ??????

??? ?? ???? ???? ??????? ?????? ? ????? ??????? ?? ???????.



??? ????? ??????? ???????? ??????? ????? ?????? 13.10 ?? ????? AFRINIC ?? ????? ????? ????? EOI ??? ?? ???? ?? ??????? 1 ?????.



?????? ?? ???????? ????? ????? ???? EOI ?? ????? ?? ????? ????? AFRINIC ?? ??? ???. ?? ???? ??? ??? ?? ??? ??? ?? ???? ???? ?? ???? ??? ????? ?? ???????.



?????? ?? ???????? ???????? ??? ??? ?????????. ???? ??? ??????? ??? ???????? ??????? ????? ???? ????? ????.



??????? 3 - ????????

???? ?????? ?? ?????? ?????? ?? ?????? ???????? ???? ?????? ?????? ?? ??????. ???? ????? ?? ???????? ???????:



???? ????? ??????? ?? ??????? (????? ??????? ?????? ?? ???????) ?

????? 13.12 ?? ??????? ????????.



???? ????? ????? ?????? ??? ?? ???? ?? ???????.



????? ??? ??????? ?? ???? ????? ???? ??? ?????? ????????? ??????. ???? ??????? ?? ????? ?????? ??? ??????? ??? ??? ??????.



?????? ???????



???????? ?. ??? ? ???????

???? ???? ????? ??????

???????????????????????????????????????????????????.

Prezados membros e comunidade da AFRINIC,



O Conselho da AFRINIC por este meio solicita a manifesta??o de interesse de pessoas que desejam ser consideradas para nomear o Conselho para o assento na ?frica Oriental (assento 6), conforme o Artigo 13.14 dos Estatutos da AFRINIC. A nomea??o durar? at? a pr?xima AFRINIC AGMM prevista para junho de 2020



Fase 1 - Convite ? manifesta??o de interesse



Se voc? deseja ser considerado para o lugar vago, preencha o formul?rio em <https://registration.afrinic.net/elections/board-express-of-interest-201912 <https://registration.afrinic.net/elections/board-express-of-interest-201912>> o mais tardar ?s 23:59 UTC de 30 de dezembro de 2019 .



Qualquer pessoa que manifestar interesse deve:

  ? Ter pelo menos cinco (5) anos de experi?ncia profissional em uma ?rea relevante para as atividades da AFRINIC, como Gerenciamento de Recursos da Internet, TIC, desenvolvimento de pol?ticas, finan?as, auditoria ou gerenciamento de RH, etc .;

  ? Estar dispon?vel e comprometido em participar das reuni?es da diretoria e de outras atividades da AFRINIC (presencial e online).



Os seguintes requisitos, conforme o Artigo 13.10 do Estatuto Social da AFRINIC, ser?o rigorosamente observados:



13.10 Nenhuma pessoa ser? nomeada ou ocupar? o cargo de diretor se a pessoa:

(i) tem menos de 18 anos de idade;

(ii) ? um falido n?o descarregado;

(iii) seria proibido, exceto para a revoga??o da Se??o 117 da Lei de Sociedades de 1984 das Maur?cias, ser Diretor ou promotor de, ou estar envolvido ou participar da administra??o de uma empresa, na acep??o dessa Lei;

(iv) seja proibido de ser um diretor ou promotor de ou estar envolvido ou participar da administra??o de uma empresa sob as Se??es 337 ou 338 da Lei;

(v) n?o ? uma pessoa natural; ou

(vi) tenha sido considerado insano.



A Diretoria pretende ainda aplicar as diretrizes do Artigo 13.12 do Estatuto da AFRINIC, na medida em que sejam apropriadas:



13.12 [...] aplicam-se as seguintes condi??es adicionais aos candidatos que desejarem ser considerados para o cargo:

(i) experi?ncia anterior em diretoria ou lideran?a organizacional;

(ii) habilidades em gest?o e lideran?a de neg?cios;

(iii) capta??o de recursos para organiza??es sem fins lucrativos;

(iv) experi?ncia em opera??es de rede e servi?os de Internet; e

(v) experi?ncia internacional em desenvolvimento de neg?cios.



A nomea??o ser? realizada de acordo com o seguinte processo:

Fase 2 - Consultas p?blicas

O Conselho deve oferecer a oportunidade e solicitar feedback da comunidade.



Os eleg?veis para indica??o de acordo com a se??o 13.10 dos Estatutos da AFRINIC devem ser identificados por aqueles que apresentaram EOI, conforme indicado na Fase 1 acima.



Os candidatos dever?o fornecer refer?ncias que ap?iem ??sua EOI de dois membros do AFRINIC em situa??o regular. Um membro em boa posi??o n?o pode apoiar mais de um candidato, independentemente da regi?o.



Os candidatos dever?o consentir com a publica??o de suas informa??es. As informa??es sobre os candidatos ser?o publicadas para coment?rios do p?blico por um per?odo de uma semana.




Fase 3 - Sele??o

O Conselho deve selecionar o candidato do grupo de candidatos para preencher a vaga no Conselho. Os seguintes crit?rios ser?o considerados:



Feedback recebido da comunidade (conforme a Fase 1 do processo);

Se??o 13.12 do Estatuto Social da AFRINIC.


Ser? realizada uma vota??o do Conselho em cada assento da regi?o.



Essa fase ser? conclu?da dentro de uma (1) semana ap?s o t?rmino das consultas p?blicas. A pessoa nomeada ser? anunciada ? comunidade imediatamente depois.



Cumprimentos,



Christian D. Bope, PhD

Presidente do Conselho da AFRINIC
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From comm-announce at afrinic.net  Tue Dec 17 13:29:42 2019
From: comm-announce at afrinic.net (AFRINIC Communication)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 17:29:42 +0400
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Call for Comments - AFRINIC Strategic Plan 2021
	- 2025
Message-ID: <F7591741-19E8-4766-88C1-19C372BC5BAF@afrinic.net>

[French, Arabic, and Portuguese versions below]

Dear colleagues,

Thank you for your participation and feedback during the session on the assessment of the current Strategic Plan on Wednesday, 4 December 2019, during AFRINIC 31 in Luanda, Angola.

As discussed, we are in the process of developing AFRINIC?s Strategic Plan 2021-2025. We have already had an assessment of the AFRINIC Strategic Plan 2016 - 2020. The assessment was meant to determine whether the objectives set in the AFRINIC Strategic Plan 2016 - 2020 had been achieved and prepare the way for the formulation of the next five-year plan. Please see the Strategic Plan 2016-2020 assessment, and time plan for the development of the Strategic Plan 2021-2025 at https://afrinic.net/strategy#2016-2020 <https://afrinic.net/strategy#2016-2020>.

To further promote active participation and inclusion, members are requested to critically interrogate the report, and contribute to the next Strategic Plan. You can send in your views by email ceo at afrinic.net <mailto:ceo at afrinic.net> until 29 February 2020. AFRINIC belongs to all of us, and your active participation in the Strategic Plan development process will contribute to both the success of AFRINIC, and the development of a resilient, reliable and accessible Internet in Africa.

We look forward to your usual cooperation and participation in this process.

Yours sincerely,

Eddy Kayihura

Chief Executive Officer, AFRINIC 


???????????????????????????????????.


Chers coll?gues,

Merci pour votre participation et vos commentaires lors de la session sur l'?valuation de l'actuel Plan strat?gique le mercredi 4 d?cembre 2019, lors de l?AFRINIC 31 ? Luanda, en Angola.

Comme discut?, nous sommes en train d??laborer le Plan strat?gique AFRINIC 2021-2025. Nous avons d?j? eu une ?valuation du Plan strat?gique AFRINIC 2016-2020. Cette ?valuation visait ? d?terminer si les objectifs fix?s dans le Plan strat?gique AFRINIC 2016-2020 avaient ?t? atteints et ? pr?parer la voie ? la formulation du prochain plan quinquennal. . Veuillez consulter l'?valuation du Plan strat?gique 2016-2020 et le calendrier pour l'?laboration du Plan strat?gique 2021-2025 ? https://afrinic.net/strategy#2016-2020 <https://afrinic.net/strategy#2016-2020>.

Pour promouvoir davantage la participation active et l'inclusion, les membres sont pri?s d'interroger de mani?re critique le rapport et de contribuer au prochain plan strat?gique. Vous pouvez envoyer vos opinions par e-mail ceo at afrinic.net <mailto:ceo at afrinic.net> jusqu'au 29 f?vrier 2020. AFRINIC nous appartient ? tous, et votre participation active au processus d'?laboration du Plan strat?gique contribuera ? la fois au succ?s d'AFRINIC et au d?veloppement d'une r?silience Internet, fiable et accessible en Afrique.

Nous attendons avec int?r?t votre coop?ration et votre participation habituelles ? ce processus.

Cordialement,

Eddy Kayihura

Directeur G?n?ral, AFRINIC

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????..

?????? ????????

????? ??? ??????? ????????? ???? ?????? ??? ????? ????? ???????????? ??????? ??? ???????? ? 4 ?????? 2019 ? ???? AFRINIC31 ?? ?????? ? ??????.

??? ??? ??????? ? ??? ???? ????? ????? ???????????? ?? AFRINIC 2021-2025. ??? ?????? ?????? ????? ????? ???????????? ???????? 2016-2020. ??? ????? ?? ??????? ?? ????? ?? ??? ???? ??????? ??????? ?? ????? ???????????? ??????? 2016-2020 ?? ????? ????? ?????? ?????? ????? ??????? ??????? . ???? ??????? ??? ????? ????? ???????????? 2016-2020 ? ?????? ??????? ?????? ????? ???????????? 2021-2025 ??? https://afrinic.net/strategy#2016-2020 <https://afrinic.net/strategy#2016-2020>.

?????? ???????? ??????? ???????? ? ????? ?? ??????? ??????? ??????? ???? ???? ? ????????? ?? ????? ???????????? ???????. ????? ????? ????? ????? ??? ?????? ?????????? ceo at afrinic.net <mailto:ceo at afrinic.net>??? 29 ?????? 2020. ?? AFRINIC ??? ??? ?????? ? ??????? ??????? ?????? ?? ????? ????? ????? ???????????? ?? ?? ?? ???? AFRINIC ?????? ???????. ? ?????? ????? ?????? ????? ???????? ?? ???????.

????? ??? ?????? ??????? ???????? ?? ??? ???????.

?????? ????? ???? ?????????


Eddy Kayihura

?????? ????????? AFRINIC
????????????????????????????????????.

Queridos colegas,

Obrigado por sua participa??o e feedback durante a sess?o sobre a avalia??o do atual Plano Estrat?gico na quarta-feira, 4 de dezembro de 2019, durante o AFRINIC31 em Luanda, Angola.

Conforme discutido, estamos no processo de desenvolver o Plano Estrat?gico da AFRINIC 2021-2025. J? tivemos uma avalia??o do Plano Estrat?gico AFRINIC 2016 - 2020. A avalia??o foi feita para determinar se os objetivos estabelecidos no Plano Estrat?gico AFRINIC 2016 - 2020 foram alcan?ados e preparar o caminho para a formula??o do pr?ximo plano quinquenal. . Consulte a avalia??o do Plano Estrat?gico 2016-2020 e o plano de tempo para o desenvolvimento do Plano Estrat?gico 2021-2025 em https://afrinic.net/strategy#2016-2020 <https://afrinic.net/strategy#2016-2020>.

Para promover ainda mais a participa??o e a inclus?o ativas, os membros s?o solicitados a interrogar criticamente o relat?rio e contribuir para o pr?ximo Plano Estrat?gico. Voc? pode enviar suas opini?es pelo e-mail ceo at afrinic.net <mailto:ceo at afrinic.net> at? 29 de fevereiro de 2020. O AFRINIC pertence a todos n?s, e sua participa??o ativa no processo de desenvolvimento do Plano Estrat?gico contribuir? para o sucesso do AFRINIC e o desenvolvimento de um ambiente resiliente. , Internet confi?vel e acess?vel na ?frica.

Aguardamos a sua coopera??o e participa??o habituais neste processo.

Com os melhores cumprimentos,

Eddy Kayihura

Diretor Executivo, AFRINIC
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From mark.tinka at seacom.mu  Tue Dec 17 21:58:53 2019
From: mark.tinka at seacom.mu (Mark Tinka)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 23:58:53 +0200
Subject: [Community-Discuss] APRICOT 2020: Call for Papers Reminder - We Are
	Still Open!
Message-ID: <3ed36ae3-8d48-0e6e-3381-8829b90ffdcb@seacom.mu>

Hi all.

Just a gentle reminder that the APRICOT 2020 Call for Papers is still
open, and that the Program Committee are still looking for good content
for the meeting.

You can find more details about the Call for Papers here and submission
details here:

??? https://2020.apricot.net/program/call-for-paper/

We would like to remind you to kindly submit your proposals now in order
to improve your chances of being assured of a slot in the agenda.

We look forward to hearing from you. Thanks.

Mark.
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From rfg at tristatelogic.com  Wed Dec 18 04:14:52 2019
From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette)
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2019 20:14:52 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Dues-paying members?
Message-ID: <21127.1576642492@segfault.tristatelogic.com>

Way back on July 2, in response to a question I posed on the AFRINIC RPD
mailing list, Nishal Goburdhan <nishal at controlfreak.co.za>, in message
<995E2922-AFB1-4915-B119-BA489E825FF7 at controlfreak.co.za> said the
following:

>?member-only? status, as seen here, is a non-resource holding member of
>afrinic.  as this is an afrinic construct, it would be, by definition,
>non-legacy.  if you find a case of this type of member holding resources,
>you should definitely point that out to the hostmaster team.

On that same day, I elected to write a modest Perl script to see how well
Mr. Goburdhan's assertion matched up with actual reality in the AFRINC
data base as it existed at that time.  It took me well less than a day to
finish and debug the script.  I then ran it against the whole AFRINIC
WHOIS data base.

The script quite certainly found numerous instances of organizations
marked as "MEMBER-ONLY" within the data base but which nontheless had
associated with them one or more IPv4 allocations.  (I did not check for
IPv6 allocations or for ASN allocations to "MEMBER-ONLY" organizations
but will likely do so in the near future.)

I have just fetched a fresh copy of the AFRINIC WHOIS data base and re-run
this same simple analysis script.  The results are presented here:

    https://pastebin.com/raw/n9W0Lcc2

According to these results, there are currently a total of 22 organizations
that are flagged as "MEMBER-ONLY" within the data base, at present, and
which nontheless have one or more IPv4 block allocations.

I already know at least some of the relevant story for the two specific
organizations designated by ORG-AISL1-AFRINIC and ORG-IA41-AFRINIC, but
I would very much like to obtain answers to the following questions with
respect to each of the remaining 20 anomalous organizations listed in the
table linked to above, and with repsect to their associated IPv4 allocations:

   *)  Was Mr. Goburdhan correct in asserting that MEMBER-ONLY organizations
       should have no associated/assigned number resources?

   *)  Are all of the IPv4 blocks listed in the table "non-legacy" blocks?
       If not, then which ones are and which ones are not?

   *)  Are annual fees due and payable, to AFRINIC, for any or all of the 
       IPv4 blocks listed in the table?  Have such fees been due and payable
       to AFRINIC for the entire time since each block, respectively, was
       assigned to its associated organization?

   *)  If the answer to either of the above questions is "yes", then has
       AFRINIC in fact been either collecting and/or receiving such annual
       fees for any or all of the blocks listed in the table?  If not, how
       much revenue has AFRINIC been deprived of by its failure to collect
       annual fees on some or all of the listed blocks?

   *)  Have any of the organizations listed in the table been granted the
       special "MEMBER-ONLY" status as a result of their connections to one
       or more AFRINIC board or staff members?

   *)  For each of the 22 organizations represented in the table, who
       specifically made the decision to grant each one the special
       "MEMBER-ONLY" status?  Was that status granted before or after
       the organizations acquired their associated IPv4 allocations?
       If before, then is it not a part of standard practice at AFRINIC
       to check all IP block allocations, as they are being made, in order
       to insure that they are not being made to MEMBER-ONLY organizations?
       if after, then is it not a part of standard practice at AFRINIC to
       check each organization that is being converted to MEMBER-ONLY
       status in order to insure that it holds no number resources at the
       time of the conversion?

Additionally, I also have two more generalized questions which would seem
to naturally arise in the present context:

   *)  Why has it fallen to me, a mostly disinterested third-party, to
       perform this sort of simple-minded consistancy checking on the
       AFRINIC WHOIS data base?   Is this not the kind of thing that
       AFRINIC could have done and/or should have been doing for some
       years already, even well before I took an interest?  (I mean it
       isn't as if this sort of consistancy checking required either
       genius-level programming skills -or- multiple man-years of effort
       in order to implement.)

   *)  Over the past ten years, other than the various AFRINIC CEOs, which
       specific manager(s) or department head(s) within AFRINIC have been
       most directly responsible for insuring the accuracy, integrity,
       security, and consistancy of the AFRINIC WHOIS data base?

At this point in time I feel somewhat justified in my feeling that the
current board and management may view some or all of the answers to
the above questions as being fundamentally none of my bloody business
and/or subject to some over-arching NDAs that permit them to say nothing
of significance about anything.  Nontheless, I can and still do hope
that some sensible answers will be provided to the above questions.  If
not, then I suppose it will be incumbant upon the membership to decide
if they are comfortable with non-answers to these apparently reasonable
questions, given the present context.


Regards,
rfg



From owen at delong.com  Fri Dec 20 23:58:06 2019
From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong)
Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2019 15:58:06 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 551, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <421C275F-6218-4B74-88DC-D01B3FA0AF03@steffann.nl>
References: <mailman.1860.1575986283.5925.community-discuss@afrinic.net>
 <CAHcb0ASgpJL0_S-jRAcNhyDFmfK8hVh9chFJAsKTAHnL5GKsiQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <C4E6BCC1-F22D-4C42-AD1B-0B359F4078EC@delong.com>
 <421C275F-6218-4B74-88DC-D01B3FA0AF03@steffann.nl>
Message-ID: <3E4E30B3-CF34-4D28-A25F-E783B932695D@delong.com>



> On Dec 13, 2019, at 05:14 , Sander Steffann <sander at steffann.nl> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>> The best thing to do with the review policy is to abandon it. Unfortunately, despite sustained opposition and an inability to bring it to consensus, the authors persist.
> 
> At some point the chairs are perfectly allowed to declare non-consensus and drop the proposal. It's their responsibility to make sure this working group functions, and wasting time on a proposal that is not getting consensus is harmful to this working group and its participants.

That?s not true as I understand the AfriNIC PDP. It?s true in other regions, but AfriNIC?s PDP is such that it remains on the docket until it expires (lack of an update for 12 months IIRC) or reaches consensus.

> It's not something to be done lightly, but I think that time has come?

If only wishing made it so. I agree with you.

Owen




From kmw.elitcha at gmail.com  Sun Dec 22 17:23:54 2019
From: kmw.elitcha at gmail.com (Komi Elitcha)
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2019 17:23:54 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 551, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <AC3D9CBF-C286-4770-B701-3ADDA6385CA7@steffann.nl>
References: <mailman.1860.1575986283.5925.community-discuss@afrinic.net>
 <CAHcb0ASgpJL0_S-jRAcNhyDFmfK8hVh9chFJAsKTAHnL5GKsiQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <C4E6BCC1-F22D-4C42-AD1B-0B359F4078EC@delong.com>
 <421C275F-6218-4B74-88DC-D01B3FA0AF03@steffann.nl>
 <CAN0q0kHVksx235JtDZzhWE9BbiphRHeL398Rck+taEa+wg=2GQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <AC3D9CBF-C286-4770-B701-3ADDA6385CA7@steffann.nl>
Message-ID: <DC6A3B30-5AC3-454F-A1FB-00EC75F64B8C@gmail.com>

Dear Sander,

> On Dec 14, 2019, at 17:51, Sander Steffann <sander at steffann.nl> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> So in summary: the current PDP doesn't seem to allow for the chairs to make such a decision, but it does allow (require?) them to make sure the authors comply with the PDP. That way a runaway proposal can still be stopped, although it will take a year.
> 

Thanks for recognising that current PDP does not allow chairs to ?drop a proposal?. 

All should follow the current PDP  as we refuse to associate it to other best  pratices  which govern the operation of Working  Group as required by the PDWG. 

We shall therefore work to revive the PDP and add all provisions explicitly.



> Cheers,
> Sander
> 


- KE






From jaberamatogoro at gmail.com  Fri Dec 27 18:10:57 2019
From: jaberamatogoro at gmail.com (Matogoro Jabera)
Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2019 21:10:57 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Policy and Regulation: Prerequisites towards
 Resilient Community Network in Africa
Message-ID: <CANd6-7skgHTuPNUtsz+3vV1jvzJ8OUAoxJq=Lp_MKxfXoUsHjQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Colleagues,

We have published a blog on the need of policy and regulation for
resilient  community network in Africa.

https://tzcna.or.tz/p/news?h=Policy+and+Regulation%3A+Prerequisites+towards+Resilient+Community+Networks+in+Africa&id=12


Regards,
Matogoro
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From martha at witin.org  Sat Dec 28 20:57:54 2019
From: martha at witin.org (Martha Alade)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2019 21:57:54 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [AfrICANN-discuss] Policy and Regulation:
 Prerequisites towards Resilient Community Network in Africa
In-Reply-To: <CANd6-7skgHTuPNUtsz+3vV1jvzJ8OUAoxJq=Lp_MKxfXoUsHjQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANd6-7skgHTuPNUtsz+3vV1jvzJ8OUAoxJq=Lp_MKxfXoUsHjQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOOqB=fnDv8_LYciMDL5ueFV2gg12-BNunTuiehL5pTxKyhhTw@mail.gmail.com>

Interesting read?

On Friday, December 27, 2019, Matogoro Jabera <jaberamatogoro at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Colleagues,
>
> We have published a blog on the need of policy and regulation for
> resilient  community network in Africa.
>
> https://tzcna.or.tz/p/news?h=Policy+and+Regulation%3A+
> Prerequisites+towards+Resilient+Community+Networks+in+Africa&id=12
>
>
> Regards,
> Matogoro
>


-- 
Martha Omoekpen Alade
Founder, Women in Technology in Nigeria (WITIN.org)

Whatsapp: +2349091988367 | Facebook : @alade.marthao
| Twitter :@alademartha
Web: www.alademartha.com
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From jaberamatogoro at gmail.com  Sat Dec 28 21:02:03 2019
From: jaberamatogoro at gmail.com (Matogoro Jabera)
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2019 00:02:03 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [AfrICANN-discuss] Policy and Regulation:
 Prerequisites towards Resilient Community Network in Africa
In-Reply-To: <CAOOqB=fnDv8_LYciMDL5ueFV2gg12-BNunTuiehL5pTxKyhhTw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANd6-7skgHTuPNUtsz+3vV1jvzJ8OUAoxJq=Lp_MKxfXoUsHjQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAOOqB=fnDv8_LYciMDL5ueFV2gg12-BNunTuiehL5pTxKyhhTw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANd6-7ujVsbArw3eoaZ911WffJ3ok56AjQF2uu1owwQTPW2Ryw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Martha,

Thank you for this feedback. I am happy that we have already formed a group
to work on some of these challenges.


Regards,
Matogoro

On Sat, 28 Dec 2019, 23:58 Martha Alade, <martha at witin.org> wrote:

> Interesting read?
>
> On Friday, December 27, 2019, Matogoro Jabera <jaberamatogoro at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear Colleagues,
>>
>> We have published a blog on the need of policy and regulation for
>> resilient  community network in Africa.
>>
>>
>> https://tzcna.or.tz/p/news?h=Policy+and+Regulation%3A+Prerequisites+towards+Resilient+Community+Networks+in+Africa&id=12
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Matogoro
>>
>
>
> --
> Martha Omoekpen Alade
> Founder, Women in Technology in Nigeria (WITIN.org)
>
> Whatsapp: +2349091988367 | Facebook : @alade.marthao
> | Twitter :@alademartha
> Web: www.alademartha.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> AfrICANN mailing list
> AfrICANN at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/africann
>
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From rfg at tristatelogic.com  Sun Dec 29 02:09:34 2019
From: rfg at tristatelogic.com (Ronald F. Guilmette)
Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2019 18:09:34 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] LIMITED-TIME OFFER: Cut-Rate AFRINIC IPv4
	blocks still available!
Message-ID: <26775.1577585374@segfault.tristatelogic.com>

Greetings and Happy New Year to you all!

I just wanted to remind all of you who may be planning network expansions
in the new year that the special "Five Finger Discount" bargains on AFRINIC
IPv4 address blocks, for permanent ownership or lease, are apparently still
available, but probably for a limited time only.  So don't delay!  Get
your's today!  They won't last long at these prices! [*]

http://ipv4leasing.net/


Regards,
rfg


[*]  Subject to availability.  IPs suitable for snowshoe spamming and/or
"sneaker proxies".   Guaranteed not to be blocked except by all of the
major blacklists or your money back.  Payment via Bitcoin preferred.