From wafa at ati.tn  Wed May  2 21:45:57 2018
From: wafa at ati.tn (wafa DAHMANI)
Date: Wed, 2 May 2018 22:45:57 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Investigation Committee Report
Message-ID: <1072822332.79962.1525297557562.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn>

Dear Community, 

The Governance committee is pleased to inform you that the investigation committee report was sent to the chair of the board on Wednesday the 2nd of May at 21:40 UTC. 

Best Regards 

Chairperson Governance Committee 
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From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com  Thu May  3 06:12:34 2018
From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston)
Date: Thu, 3 May 2018 06:12:34 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Investigation Committee Report
In-Reply-To: <1072822332.79962.1525297557562.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn>
References: <1072822332.79962.1525297557562.JavaMail.zimbra@ati.tn>
Message-ID: <HE1PR0301MB2570955FC7D87E9CDD2947C5EE870@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Thanks Wafa,

Can the board please tell this community if and when this report will be released to the community at large entirely uncut and uncensored - or if this board will in fact not be releasing the report in original form.

I personally think though that if the board chooses not to release it - each member is free to infer what they will from that decision.

I also remind the board of its mandate to inform its community on all matters related to the company - as per section 3 of the bylaws

Andrew

Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
________________________________
From: wafa DAHMANI <wafa at ati.tn>
Sent: Thursday, May 3, 2018 12:45:57 AM
To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
Cc: govcom
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Investigation Committee Report

Dear Community,

The Governance committee is pleased to inform you that the investigation committee report was sent to the chair of the board on Wednesday the 2nd of May at 21:40 UTC.

Best Regards

Chairperson Governance Committee
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From funga.roho at yandex.com  Thu May  3 12:10:20 2018
From: funga.roho at yandex.com (Kangamutima zabika Christophe)
Date: Thu, 03 May 2018 13:10:20 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 312, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1525348801.5066.community-discuss@afrinic.net>
References: <mailman.1.1525348801.5066.community-discuss@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <10339041525349420@web48g.yandex.ru>

Andrew,

Nous attendrons sereinement une communication du conseil d'administration sans pr?cipitation inconsid?r?e ou id?es pr?con?ues.

Je ne vois pas non plus l'utilit? de rappeler un r?glement qui n'a pas encore ?t? transgress?.

KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA



From funga.roho at yandex.com  Thu May  3 12:10:52 2018
From: funga.roho at yandex.com (Kangamutima zabika Christophe)
Date: Thu, 03 May 2018 13:10:52 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 312, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <mailman.1.1525348801.5066.community-discuss@afrinic.net>
References: <mailman.1.1525348801.5066.community-discuss@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <10342311525349452@web48g.yandex.ru>



03.05.2018, 13:01, "community-discuss-request at afrinic.net" <community-discuss-request at afrinic.net>:
> Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to
> ????????community-discuss at afrinic.net
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> ????????https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> ????????community-discuss-request at afrinic.net
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> ????????community-discuss-owner at afrinic.net
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..."
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> ???1. Investigation Committee Report (wafa DAHMANI)
> ???2. Re: Investigation Committee Report (Andrew Alston)
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 2 May 2018 22:45:57 +0100 (CET)
> From: wafa DAHMANI <wafa at ati.tn>
> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
> Cc: govcom <govcom at afrinic.net>
> Subject: [Community-Discuss] Investigation Committee Report
> Message-ID: <1072822332.79962.1525297557562.JavaMail.zimbra at ati.tn>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Dear Community,
>
> The Governance committee is pleased to inform you that the investigation committee report was sent to the chair of the board on Wednesday the 2nd of May at 21:40 UTC.
>
> Best Regards
>
> Chairperson Governance Committee
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 3 May 2018 06:12:34 +0000
> From: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
> To: wafa DAHMANI <wafa at ati.tn>, "community-discuss at afrinic.net"
> ????????<community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> Cc: govcom <govcom at afrinic.net>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Investigation Committee Report
> Message-ID:
> ????????<HE1PR0301MB2570955FC7D87E9CDD2947C5EE870 at HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> Thanks Wafa,
>
> Can the board please tell this community if and when this report will be released to the community at large entirely uncut and uncensored - or if this board will in fact not be releasing the report in original form.
>
> I personally think though that if the board chooses not to release it - each member is free to infer what they will from that decision.
>
> I also remind the board of its mandate to inform its community on all matters related to the company - as per section 3 of the bylaws
>
> Andrew
>
> Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
> ________________________________
> From: wafa DAHMANI <wafa at ati.tn>
> Sent: Thursday, May 3, 2018 12:45:57 AM
> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
> Cc: govcom
> Subject: [Community-Discuss] Investigation Committee Report
>
> Dear Community,
>
> The Governance committee is pleased to inform you that the investigation committee report was sent to the chair of the board on Wednesday the 2nd of May at 21:40 UTC.
>
> Best Regards
>
> Chairperson Governance Committee
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>We will calmly wait for a communication from the board of directors without rash recklessness or preconceived ideas.

I also do not see the point in recalling a regulation that has not yet been transgressed.

KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 312, Issue 1
> *************************************************

--?
KANGAMUTIMA? ZABIKA
Contr?leur des douanes
Direction des Syst?mes et Technologies de l'Information
Direction G?n?rale des Douanes et
Accises
DRC




From funga.roho at yandex.com  Fri May  4 11:35:31 2018
From: funga.roho at yandex.com (Kangamutima zabika Christophe)
Date: Fri, 04 May 2018 12:35:31 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: [pdwg] RPD post roles
In-Reply-To: <1984621223.111537.1525273697932.JavaMail.zimbra@forum.org.ng>
Message-ID: <3867211525433731@web31j.yandex.ru>

Monsieur le co-pr?sident,

Malgr? ma plainte du 02 mai et mon courriel du 03 mai, mes messages ne sont toujours pas diffus?s sur la liste de diffusion rpd list alors que la p?riode de mise sous mod?ration pr?alable est largement d?pass?e et que vous promis depuis le 02 de faire lever cette mesure.

Cordialement.

KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA

Mr. Co-Chair,

In spite of my complaint of May 2nd and my email of May 3rd, my messages are still not diffused on the mailing list rpd list while the period of moderation beforehand is largely exceeded and that you promised since the 02 to make lift this measured.

Cordially.

-------- Beginning of forwarded message  --------
02.05.2018, 16:08, "Dewole Ajao" <dewole at forum.org.ng>:

Good day KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA,

Unfortunately, we do not check these things daily to know when the time has been reached. Thank you for the reminder which is noted and will be acted upon.

Please go ahead to send an email to the rpd list whenever you want; The moderation will be lifted along with that email (as long as the contents are acceptable.

Regards,
Dewole.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kangamutima zabika Christophe" <funga.roho at yandex.com>
To: "dewole" <dewole at forum.org.ng>
Cc: "sami" <sami at tpra.gov.sd>, "Policy Development Working Group" <pdwg at afrinic.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2018 3:47:17 PM
Subject: Re: [pdwg] RPD post roles

Messieurs les Co-Pr?sidents,

Je relance ma requ?te de demande d'information afin de savoir pourquoi deux mois apr?s votre d?cision de transf?rer mes interventions ? une censure pr?alable ? la publication sur la liste de diffusion, celle-ci demeure pendant que vous m'aviez notifi? cette d?cision pour un d?lai de 2 semaines.

KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA
-------- End of forwarded message --------

--?
KANGAMUTIMA? ZABIKA
Contr?leur des douanes
Direction des Syst?mes et Technologies de l'Information
Direction G?n?rale des Douanes et
Accises
DRC




From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com  Sat May  5 14:42:31 2018
From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston)
Date: Sat, 5 May 2018 14:42:31 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Questions about the SGMM
Message-ID: <HE1PR0301MB25702475223F46E59FBF8290EE850@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Dear Board, Members, Community.

I am cross posting this because it is relevant to all of the above.

Can the board please confirm that systems are in place to allow audio communication by remote members into the meeting hall as is required by the fifth schedule of the Mauritian companies act, section (3).(b) and replicated in the bylaws in clause 12.8.(b)

If this is indeed the case - can the board please confirm exactly how this will work and how members can - by audio - communicate into the meeting.

Thanks

Andrew
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From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com  Sat May  5 14:52:13 2018
From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston)
Date: Sat, 5 May 2018 14:52:13 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] More meeting questions
Message-ID: <HE1PR0301MB2570C0C90C02C8B5BCA1556AEE850@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Dear Board of Directors.

The fifth schedule of the companies act, section 2, sub-paragraph (b)(i) states:

(b) The notice shall state -
(i) the nature of the business to be transacted at the meeting in sufficient detail to enable a shareholder to form a reasoned judgment in relation to it; and

It further goes on to state in section 2(f) that clause 2(b) stand irrespective of the bylaws or constitution of the company.

The notice distributed for this meeting does not contain sufficient detail for any member to make reasoned judgement - there is:


  1.  No Audit report as supplied by the Audit Committee attached
  2.  There is no detail as regards the appointment of the auditor
  3.  The proposed fee structure as detailed in referenced in section 5.4 of the meeting notice contains no detail
  4.  The proposed budget was not distributed by the meeting notice (as referenced by section 5.3 of the meeting agenda)
  5.  There is nomcom report attached the meeting agenda

As such - this notice of meeting is invalid as per the companies act and as per section 12.2.(d) of the companies bylaws.

As such - you require the waiver of every participating member to continue with this meeting - anything else - and the meeting is simply not valid.  Unless of course the board wishes to play the registered members card and once again prove to this membership base that they are not considered full members of this organisation as has been the claim for years.  If this board wishes to make this claim - please state so explicitly - if not - please inform this community as to how you will go about seeking the waiver as is required by the companies act.

Thanks

Andrew

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From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com  Sat May  5 17:41:35 2018
From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston)
Date: Sat, 5 May 2018 17:41:35 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] More meeting questions
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR0301MB2570C0C90C02C8B5BCA1556AEE850@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <HE1PR0301MB2570C0C90C02C8B5BCA1556AEE850@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <DB6PR0301MB256789B58EE4D22638ED5816EE850@DB6PR0301MB2567.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Just to point out - that because clause 12.2.(d) explicitly refers to members - the argument as regards registered members and waiver is actually mute - because of the lack of information and the requirements for a valid meeting notice not being met - a waiver is required from *every* member - or in the alternative - every member participating in the meeting (and that includes online participation) without any protest as to the notice of meeting being invalid

Effectively - the board requires a unanimous resolution from the floor that includes online participants in the meeting that waives the flaws in the notice of meeting - not a majority - not a super majority - unanimous

Andrew


From: Andrew Alston
Sent: 05 May 2018 17:52
To: AFRINIC Board of Directors' List <Board at afrinic.net>; members-discuss at afrinic.net; community-discuss at afrinic.net
Subject: More meeting questions

Dear Board of Directors.

The fifth schedule of the companies act, section 2, sub-paragraph (b)(i) states:

(b) The notice shall state -
(i) the nature of the business to be transacted at the meeting in sufficient detail to enable a shareholder to form a reasoned judgment in relation to it; and

It further goes on to state in section 2(f) that clause 2(b) stand irrespective of the bylaws or constitution of the company.

The notice distributed for this meeting does not contain sufficient detail for any member to make reasoned judgement - there is:


  1.  No Audit report as supplied by the Audit Committee attached
  2.  There is no detail as regards the appointment of the auditor
  3.  The proposed fee structure as detailed in referenced in section 5.4 of the meeting notice contains no detail
  4.  The proposed budget was not distributed by the meeting notice (as referenced by section 5.3 of the meeting agenda)
  5.  There is nomcom report attached the meeting agenda

As such - this notice of meeting is invalid as per the companies act and as per section 12.2.(d) of the companies bylaws.

As such - you require the waiver of every participating member to continue with this meeting - anything else - and the meeting is simply not valid.  Unless of course the board wishes to play the registered members card and once again prove to this membership base that they are not considered full members of this organisation as has been the claim for years.  If this board wishes to make this claim - please state so explicitly - if not - please inform this community as to how you will go about seeking the waiver as is required by the companies act.

Thanks

Andrew

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From noah at neo.co.tz  Sun May  6 00:29:16 2018
From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah)
Date: Sun, 06 May 2018 00:29:16 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: [pdwg] RPD post roles
In-Reply-To: <3867211525433731@web31j.yandex.ru>
References: <1984621223.111537.1525273697932.JavaMail.zimbra@forum.org.ng>
 <3867211525433731@web31j.yandex.ru>
Message-ID: <CAEqgTWbuLuNUiEJmO=Aa2m=CFYvsczKskgQCOJ=M+sG+aqaifg@mail.gmail.com>

I tend to agree with kangamutima... posts moderation should have a time
limit.

Its doesnt make sense moderating a list member for this long.

Noah

On Fri, 4 May 2018, 11:40 a.m. Kangamutima zabika Christophe, <
funga.roho at yandex.com> wrote:

> Monsieur le co-pr?sident,
>
> Malgr? ma plainte du 02 mai et mon courriel du 03 mai, mes messages ne
> sont toujours pas diffus?s sur la liste de diffusion rpd list alors que la
> p?riode de mise sous mod?ration pr?alable est largement d?pass?e et que
> vous promis depuis le 02 de faire lever cette mesure.
>
> Cordialement.
>
> KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA
>
> Mr. Co-Chair,
>
> In spite of my complaint of May 2nd and my email of May 3rd, my messages
> are still not diffused on the mailing list rpd list while the period of
> moderation beforehand is largely exceeded and that you promised since the
> 02 to make lift this measured.
>
> Cordially.
>
> -------- Beginning of forwarded message  --------
> 02.05.2018, 16:08, "Dewole Ajao" <dewole at forum.org.ng>:
>
> Good day KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA,
>
> Unfortunately, we do not check these things daily to know when the time
> has been reached. Thank you for the reminder which is noted and will be
> acted upon.
>
> Please go ahead to send an email to the rpd list whenever you want; The
> moderation will be lifted along with that email (as long as the contents
> are acceptable.
>
> Regards,
> Dewole.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kangamutima zabika Christophe" <funga.roho at yandex.com>
> To: "dewole" <dewole at forum.org.ng>
> Cc: "sami" <sami at tpra.gov.sd>, "Policy Development Working Group" <
> pdwg at afrinic.net>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 2, 2018 3:47:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [pdwg] RPD post roles
>
> Messieurs les Co-Pr?sidents,
>
> Je relance ma requ?te de demande d'information afin de savoir pourquoi
> deux mois apr?s votre d?cision de transf?rer mes interventions ? une
> censure pr?alable ? la publication sur la liste de diffusion, celle-ci
> demeure pendant que vous m'aviez notifi? cette d?cision pour un d?lai de 2
> semaines.
>
> KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA
> -------- End of forwarded message --------
>
> --
> KANGAMUTIMA  ZABIKA
> Contr?leur des douanes
> Direction des Syst?mes et Technologies de l'Information
> Direction G?n?rale des Douanes et
> Accises
> DRC
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
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From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com  Sun May  6 14:16:19 2018
From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston)
Date: Sun, 6 May 2018 14:16:19 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] More meeting questions
In-Reply-To: <DB6PR0301MB256789B58EE4D22638ED5816EE850@DB6PR0301MB2567.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <HE1PR0301MB2570C0C90C02C8B5BCA1556AEE850@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <DB6PR0301MB256789B58EE4D22638ED5816EE850@DB6PR0301MB2567.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <HE1PR0301MB2570D26D9757E041E0889379EE840@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>

A few more notes about the contestation of the notice of meeting.

I want to talk to the issue of precedent - because I have a fear that some may attempt to argue - without legal basis - that there is precedent found in the fact that the notice of meeting in the past did not contain similar information and the meeting went ahead.

To address this - I wish to bring the communities attention to article 12.3 of the bylaws:

12.3 Any irregularity in a notice of an Annual General Member Meeting shall be waived where all the members entitled to attend and vote at the Annual General Members' Meeting attend the said Meeting without protest as to the irregularity, or where all members agree to the waiver.

The critical part of this is that up until now no member entitled to attend and vote have protested the irregularity - therefore - past meetings were entirely valid.  However, that is no longer the case - as a member - I am entitled to attend the meeting - and I am formally protesting the irregularities in the notice of meeting - as such - the issue of precedent is a moot point.

I also need to bring the communities attention to the fact that this action is not without precedent in the internet community.  A very similar situation occurred with a late notice of meeting with the AMS-IX exchange in around 2004 or 2005 I believe - and the board of AMS-IX did withdraw the meeting notice and reschedule - as they were legally required to do.

The records of this should still be on the AMS-IX mailing lists for those of you who are members of AMS-IX.

Thanks

Andrew



From: Andrew Alston [mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com]
Sent: 05 May 2018 20:42
To: AFRINIC Board of Directors' List <Board at afrinic.net>; members-discuss at afrinic.net; community-discuss at afrinic.net
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] More meeting questions

Just to point out - that because clause 12.2.(d) explicitly refers to members - the argument as regards registered members and waiver is actually mute - because of the lack of information and the requirements for a valid meeting notice not being met - a waiver is required from *every* member - or in the alternative - every member participating in the meeting (and that includes online participation) without any protest as to the notice of meeting being invalid

Effectively - the board requires a unanimous resolution from the floor that includes online participants in the meeting that waives the flaws in the notice of meeting - not a majority - not a super majority - unanimous

Andrew


From: Andrew Alston
Sent: 05 May 2018 17:52
To: AFRINIC Board of Directors' List <Board at afrinic.net<mailto:Board at afrinic.net>>; members-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:members-discuss at afrinic.net>; community-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
Subject: More meeting questions

Dear Board of Directors.

The fifth schedule of the companies act, section 2, sub-paragraph (b)(i) states:

(b) The notice shall state -
(i) the nature of the business to be transacted at the meeting in sufficient detail to enable a shareholder to form a reasoned judgment in relation to it; and

It further goes on to state in section 2(f) that clause 2(b) stand irrespective of the bylaws or constitution of the company.

The notice distributed for this meeting does not contain sufficient detail for any member to make reasoned judgement - there is:


  1.  No Audit report as supplied by the Audit Committee attached
  2.  There is no detail as regards the appointment of the auditor
  3.  The proposed fee structure as detailed in referenced in section 5.4 of the meeting notice contains no detail
  4.  The proposed budget was not distributed by the meeting notice (as referenced by section 5.3 of the meeting agenda)
  5.  There is nomcom report attached the meeting agenda

As such - this notice of meeting is invalid as per the companies act and as per section 12.2.(d) of the companies bylaws.

As such - you require the waiver of every participating member to continue with this meeting - anything else - and the meeting is simply not valid.  Unless of course the board wishes to play the registered members card and once again prove to this membership base that they are not considered full members of this organisation as has been the claim for years.  If this board wishes to make this claim - please state so explicitly - if not - please inform this community as to how you will go about seeking the waiver as is required by the companies act.

Thanks

Andrew

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From abibu.ntahigiye at gmail.com  Sun May  6 19:55:37 2018
From: abibu.ntahigiye at gmail.com (Abibu Ntahigiye)
Date: Sun, 6 May 2018 19:55:37 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Board update on Governance Committee report
Message-ID: <CAMhquhHUw5omzb2RxWz5RmkLqwHiwUwPnuBQLhYcBXMLyzcPBw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Afrinic Community,


The Board in March 2018, as per resolution 201803.391, tasked the
Governance Committee (GC) to convene an investigation on allegations made
by a staff member. The GC was requested to define the Terms of Reference
(TORs) for an independent investigation, and to appoint an investigation
committee.  The Board requested the findings to be reported by 30 April
2018.

The GC notified the community that they would deliver the report by 4 May
2018, and has submitted the report to the Board on 2 May 2018. The Board
acknowledged receipt of the report. The Board is going to thoroughly
consider the report and recommendations thereof, and will share with the
community applicable actions and steps that will be taken in due course.

The Board has also been advised that in considering the report they need to
be cognizant of issues of confidentiality and data protection.

With regards to allegations made against certain Board members, the Board
can announce the following outcomes as derived from  the report:



   -

   That there was a violation of the Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA) and
    section 153 of the Companies Act 2001, by Mr Sunday Folayan.



   -

   That there is no evidence whatsoever against Haitham El Nakhal of having
   breached the terms of the NDA and/or section 153 of the Companies Act 2001.



   -

   That the Investigation Committee (IC) is satisfied that there was no
   evidence of harassment, bullying or intimidation by Board members.


The Board will re-evaluate the interim Chair and Vice Chair appointments
that were made in resolution 201803.398.

With regards to allegations made against certain members of staff, the
Board observed from the IC report  that there may have been inappropriate
behaviour on the part of certain staff members.


The findings and recommendations related to staff matters will be addressed
through necessary processes.

We appeal to the community to allow the Board time to consider the report
carefully, and provide feedback to the community no later than 31 July 2018
on the next steps and how the recommendations will be implemented.


Kind regards

----

Abibu R. Ntahigiye

Chair, Afrinic Board.
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From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com  Sun May  6 21:40:01 2018
From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston)
Date: Sun, 6 May 2018 21:40:01 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Board update on
	Governance Committee Report
In-Reply-To: <CAMhquhHwL9H_jk9f2tyB-FM7tfEJRq+e9_X57SHrv92MTo7v4A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMhquhHwL9H_jk9f2tyB-FM7tfEJRq+e9_X57SHrv92MTo7v4A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <HE1PR0301MB257007FC91A3FD9794356134EE840@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Dear Mr Chair,

I want for  a second for us to step back and consider the entire event timeline here.


  1.  Damning allegations are made
  2.  The community demands from the board an _independent_ investigation because members of the board are implicated in said allegations
  3.  The board ? to appease the community ? commissions said _independent_ investigation
  4.  The investigation concludes ? the board ? rather than publish the _independent_ investigation ? decides to publish their own report ? that
     *   Is released through a chair that is running for re-election and is therefore has a DIRECT conflict of interest should the report indicate wrong doing on the part of the wider board
     *   Is a decision made by a board that contains yet ANOTHER member who is running for re-election and is ALSO therefore conflicted
     *   Contains a single statement of wrong doing against a director that has already resigned and is therefore in no position to see ? or respond to the allegations made in the boards findings
     *   Promises some vague and unspecified actions on a date that is months past the election date and months before a meeting where the board can be held to account should those actions not be up to standard.

Please ? at this point I have to ask ? why did the board not just make up its mind and write its statement without the independent investigation ? because they may as well have.  If the board cannot see the blatant conflict of interest in what they are doing, and the TOTAL failing of corporate governance here then quite frankly, they do not deserve to hold their positions at all.

By not publishing the report itself ? you remove ANY and ALL independence from the report as was demanded by this community and as was promised by this board ? and I, as a member, am nothing short of insulted by the fact that this board could consider this community so stupid as to be willing to accept this absolute farce.

Disgusted ? beyond belief

Andrew



From: Abibu Ntahigiye [mailto:abibu.ntahigiye at gmail.com]
Sent: 06 May 2018 22:53
To: members-discuss at afrinic.net
Subject: [members-discuss] Board update on Governance Committee Report


Dear Afrinic Members,



The Board in March 2018, as per resolution 201803.391, tasked the Governance Committee (GC) to convene an investigation on allegations made by a staff member. The GC was requested to define the Terms of Reference (TORs) for an independent investigation, and to appoint an investigation committee.  The Board requested the findings to be reported by 30 April 2018.


The GC notified the community that they would deliver the report by 4 May 2018, and has submitted the report to the Board on 2 May 2018. The Board acknowledged receipt of the report. The Board is going to thoroughly consider the report and recommendations thereof, and will share with the community applicable actions and steps that will be taken in due course.


The Board has also been advised that in considering the report they need to be cognizant of issues of confidentiality and data protection.


With regards to allegations made against certain Board members, the Board can announce the following outcomes as derived from  the report:



  *   That there was a violation of the Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA) and  section 153 of the Companies Act 2001, by Mr Sunday Folayan.


  *   That there is no evidence whatsoever against Haitham El Nakhal of having breached the terms of the NDA and/or section 153 of the Companies Act 2001.



  *   That the Investigation Committee (IC) is satisfied that there was no evidence of harassment, bullying or intimidation by Board members.


The Board will re-evaluate the interim Chair and Vice Chair appointments that were made in resolution 201803.398.


With regards to allegations made against certain members of staff, the Board observed from the IC report  that there may have been inappropriate behaviour on the part of certain staff members.



The findings and recommendations related to staff matters will be addressed through necessary processes.


We appeal to the community to allow the Board time to consider the report carefully, and provide feedback to the community no later than 31 July 2018 on the next steps and how the recommendations will be implemented.



Kind regards

----

Abibu R. Ntahigiye

Chair, Afrinic Board.

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From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com  Mon May  7 00:47:21 2018
From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2018 00:47:21 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Board update
 on	Governance Committee Report
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR0301MB257007FC91A3FD9794356134EE840@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAMhquhHwL9H_jk9f2tyB-FM7tfEJRq+e9_X57SHrv92MTo7v4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB257007FC91A3FD9794356134EE840@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <HE1PR0301MB25702812C333E1FBE45A9591EE9B0@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Let me add a further comment to what I wrote below,

It is not the fact that I distrust the boards report ? it is the fact that the members of this community have absolutely no way to verify what is in the board?s report.  An independent report is exactly that ? entirely independent ? without interference or modification.

It is quite clear that a report that was written by the board does not meet the criteria for independent investigation as was demanded by the community, and if the board was in fact prepared to honor the bottom up approach that afrinic agreed to when they became signatories to the ICP-2 ? they would have honoured the demand for an independent investigation and seen it through to its fulfilment.  Instead ? they have chosen to play lip service to the nature of independent investigations and then attempt to convince this community that a report they themselves wrote was independent because it was (if they claims are accurate) BASED on an independent report.

At this point ? we do not even know who was hired to conduct the report ? we know that the GC had an investigative team do the investigation ? but who was it?  Were they free of interference?  Did the board cooperate with the the investigation?  Did the board impede the investigation thereby influencing the report?  We simply cannot answer any of that without a copy of the report ? which may well absolve the board of any wrong doing ? but it is laughable to expect this community to accept what has been provided ? because if the community had that kind of faith in this board ? the demand for the investigation would never have occurred in the first place.

Andrew


From: Andrew Alston [mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com]
Sent: 07 May 2018 00:40
To: Abibu Ntahigiye <abibu.ntahigiye at gmail.com>; members-discuss at afrinic.net
Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Board update on Governance Committee Report

Dear Mr Chair,

I want for  a second for us to step back and consider the entire event timeline here.


  1.  Damning allegations are made
  2.  The community demands from the board an _independent_ investigation because members of the board are implicated in said allegations
  3.  The board ? to appease the community ? commissions said _independent_ investigation
  4.  The investigation concludes ? the board ? rather than publish the _independent_ investigation ? decides to publish their own report ? that
     *   Is released through a chair that is running for re-election and is therefore has a DIRECT conflict of interest should the report indicate wrong doing on the part of the wider board
     *   Is a decision made by a board that contains yet ANOTHER member who is running for re-election and is ALSO therefore conflicted
     *   Contains a single statement of wrong doing against a director that has already resigned and is therefore in no position to see ? or respond to the allegations made in the boards findings
     *   Promises some vague and unspecified actions on a date that is months past the election date and months before a meeting where the board can be held to account should those actions not be up to standard.

Please ? at this point I have to ask ? why did the board not just make up its mind and write its statement without the independent investigation ? because they may as well have.  If the board cannot see the blatant conflict of interest in what they are doing, and the TOTAL failing of corporate governance here then quite frankly, they do not deserve to hold their positions at all.

By not publishing the report itself ? you remove ANY and ALL independence from the report as was demanded by this community and as was promised by this board ? and I, as a member, am nothing short of insulted by the fact that this board could consider this community so stupid as to be willing to accept this absolute farce.

Disgusted ? beyond belief

Andrew



From: Abibu Ntahigiye [mailto:abibu.ntahigiye at gmail.com]
Sent: 06 May 2018 22:53
To: members-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:members-discuss at afrinic.net>
Subject: [members-discuss] Board update on Governance Committee Report


Dear Afrinic Members,



The Board in March 2018, as per resolution 201803.391, tasked the Governance Committee (GC) to convene an investigation on allegations made by a staff member. The GC was requested to define the Terms of Reference (TORs) for an independent investigation, and to appoint an investigation committee.  The Board requested the findings to be reported by 30 April 2018.


The GC notified the community that they would deliver the report by 4 May 2018, and has submitted the report to the Board on 2 May 2018. The Board acknowledged receipt of the report. The Board is going to thoroughly consider the report and recommendations thereof, and will share with the community applicable actions and steps that will be taken in due course.


The Board has also been advised that in considering the report they need to be cognizant of issues of confidentiality and data protection.


With regards to allegations made against certain Board members, the Board can announce the following outcomes as derived from  the report:



  *   That there was a violation of the Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA) and  section 153 of the Companies Act 2001, by Mr Sunday Folayan.


  *   That there is no evidence whatsoever against Haitham El Nakhal of having breached the terms of the NDA and/or section 153 of the Companies Act 2001.



  *   That the Investigation Committee (IC) is satisfied that there was no evidence of harassment, bullying or intimidation by Board members.


The Board will re-evaluate the interim Chair and Vice Chair appointments that were made in resolution 201803.398.


With regards to allegations made against certain members of staff, the Board observed from the IC report  that there may have been inappropriate behaviour on the part of certain staff members.



The findings and recommendations related to staff matters will be addressed through necessary processes.


We appeal to the community to allow the Board time to consider the report carefully, and provide feedback to the community no later than 31 July 2018 on the next steps and how the recommendations will be implemented.



Kind regards

----

Abibu R. Ntahigiye

Chair, Afrinic Board.

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From ali at hussein.me.ke  Mon May  7 07:04:46 2018
From: ali at hussein.me.ke (Ali Hussein)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2018 10:04:46 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Board update on Governance Committee report
Message-ID: <CAPjmBy11aoYm-RQHE-GhR_zgmCS4FsxhJX=vDphUNm9vnjYgpQ@mail.gmail.com>

Apologies for cross-posting. Every African I believe needs to know what is
going on at AFRINIC. For those who are hearing about AFRINIC for the first
time please follow the link below

About Afrinic <https://www.afrinic.net/en/about/origins>

Dear Abibu

Thank you for your report. This is much appreciated.

I would like to state the following:-

1. That the community was expecting the Board to share the FULL report.
This is in line with Corporate Governance Ethos and:-

a) It will go a long way in ensuring that the community doesn't feel
(rightly or wrongly) that there is any cover up being perpetrated by the
board.
b) Protects the board from allegations of impropriety.
c) Will serve to start the process of healing and ensuring that AFRINIC
continues its very important role in the African Internet Ecosystem without
the cloud that is currently hanging over it.

2. To quote you:-

*?'?The Board has also been advised that in considering the report they
need to be cognizant of issues of confidentiality and data protection?'?*

?For you to make such a statement the community would like to know which
by-laws you are quoting from and for it to satisfied that there is going to
be breaches of confidentiality and data protection if the original report
is released.

Finally, this is to my fellow community members :-

Let us be circumspect? in how we engage on these emotive issues. Some of us
seem to be engaging in a 'Scorched Earth Policy' agains the Board. This is
ill advised. There are better ways of addressing these issues. With
sobriety and a sense of collective responsibility. AFRINIC is a critical
player in the ICT Ecosystem in Africa.


?Let us not throw the baby out with the bath water..

Regards?


*Ali Hussein*

*Principal*

*AHK & Associates*



Tel: +254 713 601113

Twitter: @AliHKassim

Skype: abu-jomo

LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
<http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>


13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing,

Chiromo Road, Westlands,

Nairobi, Kenya.

Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely
mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the
organizations that I work with.

On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 10:55 PM, Abibu Ntahigiye <abibu.ntahigiye at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Afrinic Community,
>
>
> The Board in March 2018, as per resolution 201803.391, tasked the
> Governance Committee (GC) to convene an investigation on allegations made
> by a staff member. The GC was requested to define the Terms of Reference
> (TORs) for an independent investigation, and to appoint an investigation
> committee.  The Board requested the findings to be reported by 30 April
> 2018.
>
> The GC notified the community that they would deliver the report by 4 May
> 2018, and has submitted the report to the Board on 2 May 2018. The Board
> acknowledged receipt of the report. The Board is going to thoroughly
> consider the report and recommendations thereof, and will share with the
> community applicable actions and steps that will be taken in due course.
>
> The Board has also been advised that in considering the report they need
> to be cognizant of issues of confidentiality and data protection.
>
> With regards to allegations made against certain Board members, the Board
> can announce the following outcomes as derived from  the report:
>
>
>
>    -
>
>    That there was a violation of the Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA) and
>     section 153 of the Companies Act 2001, by Mr Sunday Folayan.
>
>
>
>    -
>
>    That there is no evidence whatsoever against Haitham El Nakhal of
>    having breached the terms of the NDA and/or section 153 of the Companies
>    Act 2001.
>
>
>
>    -
>
>    That the Investigation Committee (IC) is satisfied that there was no
>    evidence of harassment, bullying or intimidation by Board members.
>
>
> The Board will re-evaluate the interim Chair and Vice Chair appointments
> that were made in resolution 201803.398.
>
> With regards to allegations made against certain members of staff, the
> Board observed from the IC report  that there may have been inappropriate
> behaviour on the part of certain staff members.
>
>
> The findings and recommendations related to staff matters will be
> addressed through necessary processes.
>
> We appeal to the community to allow the Board time to consider the report
> carefully, and provide feedback to the community no later than 31 July 2018
> on the next steps and how the recommendations will be implemented.
>
>
> Kind regards
>
> ----
>
> Abibu R. Ntahigiye
>
> Chair, Afrinic Board.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
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From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com  Mon May  7 09:28:42 2018
From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2018 09:28:42 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] More meeting questions
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR0301MB2570D26D9757E041E0889379EE840@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <HE1PR0301MB2570C0C90C02C8B5BCA1556AEE850@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <DB6PR0301MB256789B58EE4D22638ED5816EE850@DB6PR0301MB2567.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB2570D26D9757E041E0889379EE840@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <HE1PR0301MB25701366972E81D601210035EE9B0@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Dear Board,

You have a member that is (legitimately) protesting your notice of meeting - we are now only days away from said meeting - and there are still members who may be reading to travel to a meeting that may not end up occurring - since it occurring would be contrary to the bylaws and the companies act.

Can we please get a response to this - it is a matter of urgency

Andrew


From: Andrew Alston
Sent: 06 May 2018 17:16
To: 'Andrew Alston' <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>; AFRINIC Board of Directors' List <Board at afrinic.net>; members-discuss at afrinic.net; community-discuss at afrinic.net
Subject: RE: More meeting questions

A few more notes about the contestation of the notice of meeting.

I want to talk to the issue of precedent - because I have a fear that some may attempt to argue - without legal basis - that there is precedent found in the fact that the notice of meeting in the past did not contain similar information and the meeting went ahead.

To address this - I wish to bring the communities attention to article 12.3 of the bylaws:

12.3 Any irregularity in a notice of an Annual General Member Meeting shall be waived where all the members entitled to attend and vote at the Annual General Members' Meeting attend the said Meeting without protest as to the irregularity, or where all members agree to the waiver.

The critical part of this is that up until now no member entitled to attend and vote have protested the irregularity - therefore - past meetings were entirely valid.  However, that is no longer the case - as a member - I am entitled to attend the meeting - and I am formally protesting the irregularities in the notice of meeting - as such - the issue of precedent is a moot point.

I also need to bring the communities attention to the fact that this action is not without precedent in the internet community.  A very similar situation occurred with a late notice of meeting with the AMS-IX exchange in around 2004 or 2005 I believe - and the board of AMS-IX did withdraw the meeting notice and reschedule - as they were legally required to do.

The records of this should still be on the AMS-IX mailing lists for those of you who are members of AMS-IX.

Thanks

Andrew



From: Andrew Alston [mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com]
Sent: 05 May 2018 20:42
To: AFRINIC Board of Directors' List <Board at afrinic.net<mailto:Board at afrinic.net>>; members-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:members-discuss at afrinic.net>; community-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] More meeting questions

Just to point out - that because clause 12.2.(d) explicitly refers to members - the argument as regards registered members and waiver is actually mute - because of the lack of information and the requirements for a valid meeting notice not being met - a waiver is required from *every* member - or in the alternative - every member participating in the meeting (and that includes online participation) without any protest as to the notice of meeting being invalid

Effectively - the board requires a unanimous resolution from the floor that includes online participants in the meeting that waives the flaws in the notice of meeting - not a majority - not a super majority - unanimous

Andrew


From: Andrew Alston
Sent: 05 May 2018 17:52
To: AFRINIC Board of Directors' List <Board at afrinic.net<mailto:Board at afrinic.net>>; members-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:members-discuss at afrinic.net>; community-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
Subject: More meeting questions

Dear Board of Directors.

The fifth schedule of the companies act, section 2, sub-paragraph (b)(i) states:

(b) The notice shall state -
(i) the nature of the business to be transacted at the meeting in sufficient detail to enable a shareholder to form a reasoned judgment in relation to it; and

It further goes on to state in section 2(f) that clause 2(b) stand irrespective of the bylaws or constitution of the company.

The notice distributed for this meeting does not contain sufficient detail for any member to make reasoned judgement - there is:


  1.  No Audit report as supplied by the Audit Committee attached
  2.  There is no detail as regards the appointment of the auditor
  3.  The proposed fee structure as detailed in referenced in section 5.4 of the meeting notice contains no detail
  4.  The proposed budget was not distributed by the meeting notice (as referenced by section 5.3 of the meeting agenda)
  5.  There is nomcom report attached the meeting agenda

As such - this notice of meeting is invalid as per the companies act and as per section 12.2.(d) of the companies bylaws.

As such - you require the waiver of every participating member to continue with this meeting - anything else - and the meeting is simply not valid.  Unless of course the board wishes to play the registered members card and once again prove to this membership base that they are not considered full members of this organisation as has been the claim for years.  If this board wishes to make this claim - please state so explicitly - if not - please inform this community as to how you will go about seeking the waiver as is required by the companies act.

Thanks

Andrew

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From owen at delong.com  Mon May  7 09:56:14 2018
From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2018 09:56:14 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Board update on Governance Committee report
In-Reply-To: <CAPjmBy11aoYm-RQHE-GhR_zgmCS4FsxhJX=vDphUNm9vnjYgpQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPjmBy11aoYm-RQHE-GhR_zgmCS4FsxhJX=vDphUNm9vnjYgpQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A1A71440-1EDD-4E99-9DF7-D38F93000BD1@delong.com>



> On May 7, 2018, at 07:04, Ali Hussein <ali at hussein.me.ke> wrote:
> 
> Apologies for cross-posting. Every African I believe needs to know what is going on at AFRINIC. For those who are hearing about AFRINIC for the first time please follow the link below
> 
> About Afrinic
> 
> Dear Abibu
> 
> Thank you for your report. This is much appreciated.
> 
> I would like to state the following:-
> 
> 1. That the community was expecting the Board to share the FULL report. This is in line with Corporate Governance Ethos and:-

While I do agree that the board should share a minimally redacted version of the report, expecting the full report is unreasonable. It is virtually guaranteed that the report contains privileged information and private data regarding AfriNIC personnel which it would be inappropriate to disclose publicly. 

> 
> a) It will go a long way in ensuring that the community doesn't feel (rightly or wrongly) that there is any cover up being perpetrated by the board.
> b) Protects the board from allegations of impropriety.
> c) Will serve to start the process of healing and ensuring that AFRINIC continues its very important role in the African Internet Ecosystem without the cloud that is currently hanging over it.

Agreed, and I hope the board will soon release a report with only minimum redactions where such redactions are fully visible. 

> 
> 2. To quote you:-
> 
> ?'?The Board has also been advised that in considering the report they need to be cognizant of issues of confidentiality and data protection?'?
> 
> ?For you to make such a statement the community would like to know which by-laws you are quoting from and for it to satisfied that there is going to be breaches of confidentiality and data protection if the original report is released.

Seriously? Any report of this nature is likely to contain the following categories of such information:

1. Personally identifiable information about AfriNIC staff, including members not subjects of the investigation. 

2. Confidential information subject to the board NDA. 

3. HR sensitive data which cannot be legally disclosed. 

> 
> Finally, this is to my fellow community members :-
> 
> Let us be circumspect? in how we engage on these emotive issues. Some of us seem to be engaging in a 'Scorched Earth Policy' agains the Board. This is ill advised. There are better ways of addressing these issues. With sobriety and a sense of collective responsibility. AFRINIC is a critical player in the ICT Ecosystem in Africa. 
> 
> ?Let us not throw the baby out with the bath water..

Agreed.

Owen

> 
> Regards?
> 
> 
> Ali Hussein
> Principal
> AHK & Associates
>  
> Tel: +254 713 601113
> Twitter: @AliHKassim
> Skype: abu-jomo
> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
> 
> 13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing,
> Chiromo Road, Westlands,
> Nairobi, Kenya.
> 
> Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with.
> 
>> On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 10:55 PM, Abibu Ntahigiye <abibu.ntahigiye at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Dear Afrinic Community,
>> 
>> The Board in March 2018, as per resolution 201803.391, tasked the Governance Committee (GC) to convene an investigation on allegations made by a staff member. The GC was requested to define the Terms of Reference (TORs) for an independent investigation, and to appoint an investigation committee.  The Board requested the findings to be reported by 30 April 2018.
>> 
>> The GC notified the community that they would deliver the report by 4 May 2018, and has submitted the report to the Board on 2 May 2018. The Board acknowledged receipt of the report. The Board is going to thoroughly consider the report and recommendations thereof, and will share with the community applicable actions and steps that will be taken in due course.
>> 
>> The Board has also been advised that in considering the report they need to be cognizant of issues of confidentiality and data protection.
>> 
>> With regards to allegations made against certain Board members, the Board can announce the following outcomes as derived from  the report:
>>     
>> That there was a violation of the Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA) and  section 153 of the Companies Act 2001, by Mr Sunday Folayan.
>> 
>> That there is no evidence whatsoever against Haitham El Nakhal of having breached the terms of the NDA and/or section 153 of the Companies Act 2001.
>>     
>> That the Investigation Committee (IC) is satisfied that there was no evidence of harassment, bullying or intimidation by Board members.
>> 
>> The Board will re-evaluate the interim Chair and Vice Chair appointments that were made in resolution 201803.398.
>> 
>> With regards to allegations made against certain members of staff, the Board observed from the IC report  that there may have been inappropriate behaviour on the part of certain staff members.
>> 
>> The findings and recommendations related to staff matters will be addressed through necessary processes.
>> 
>> We appeal to the community to allow the Board time to consider the report carefully, and provide feedback to the community no later than 31 July 2018 on the next steps and how the recommendations will be implemented.
>> 
>> Kind regards
>> ----
>> Abibu R. Ntahigiye
>> Chair, Afrinic Board.
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
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From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com  Mon May  7 10:04:09 2018
From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2018 10:04:09 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Board update on Governance Committee report
In-Reply-To: <A1A71440-1EDD-4E99-9DF7-D38F93000BD1@delong.com>
References: <CAPjmBy11aoYm-RQHE-GhR_zgmCS4FsxhJX=vDphUNm9vnjYgpQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <A1A71440-1EDD-4E99-9DF7-D38F93000BD1@delong.com>
Message-ID: <HE1PR0301MB25707F99FD78932E22E38663EE9B0@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Owen,

I would even accept a minimally redacted version ? so long as the redactions can be clearly seen ? so we can see not the information that was redacted ? but the context around the redaction.

But ? what we have at the moment is a report written by the board itself that has absolutely no independence whatsoever and no transparency ? that ? is not good enough

Andrew


From: Owen DeLong [mailto:owen at delong.com]
Sent: 07 May 2018 12:56
To: Ali Hussein <ali at hussein.me.ke>
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Board update on Governance Committee report



On May 7, 2018, at 07:04, Ali Hussein <ali at hussein.me.ke<mailto:ali at hussein.me.ke>> wrote:
Apologies for cross-posting. Every African I believe needs to know what is going on at AFRINIC. For those who are hearing about AFRINIC for the first time please follow the link below

About Afrinic<https://www.afrinic.net/en/about/origins>

Dear Abibu

Thank you for your report. This is much appreciated.

I would like to state the following:-

1. That the community was expecting the Board to share the FULL report. This is in line with Corporate Governance Ethos and:-

While I do agree that the board should share a minimally redacted version of the report, expecting the full report is unreasonable. It is virtually guaranteed that the report contains privileged information and private data regarding AfriNIC personnel which it would be inappropriate to disclose publicly.



a) It will go a long way in ensuring that the community doesn't feel (rightly or wrongly) that there is any cover up being perpetrated by the board.
b) Protects the board from allegations of impropriety.
c) Will serve to start the process of healing and ensuring that AFRINIC continues its very important role in the African Internet Ecosystem without the cloud that is currently hanging over it.

Agreed, and I hope the board will soon release a report with only minimum redactions where such redactions are fully visible.



2. To quote you:-

?'?
The Board has also been advised that in considering the report they need to be cognizant of issues of confidentiality and data protection
?'?


?For you to make such a statement the community would like to know which by-laws you are quoting from and for it to satisfied that there is going to be breaches of confidentiality and data protection if the original report is released.

Seriously? Any report of this nature is likely to contain the following categories of such information:

1. Personally identifiable information about AfriNIC staff, including members not subjects of the investigation.

2. Confidential information subject to the board NDA.

3. HR sensitive data which cannot be legally disclosed.



Finally, this is to my fellow community members :-

Let us be circumspect? in how we engage on these emotive issues. Some of us seem to be engaging in a 'Scorched Earth Policy' agains the Board. This is ill advised. There are better ways of addressing these issues. With sobriety and a sense of collective responsibility. AFRINIC is a critical player in the ICT Ecosystem in Africa.



?Let us not throw the baby out with the bath water..

Agreed.

Owen



Regards?



Ali Hussein

Principal

AHK & Associates



Tel: +254 713 601113

Twitter: @AliHKassim

Skype: abu-jomo

LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim<http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>



13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing,

Chiromo Road, Westlands,

Nairobi, Kenya.

Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with.

On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 10:55 PM, Abibu Ntahigiye <abibu.ntahigiye at gmail.com<mailto:abibu.ntahigiye at gmail.com>> wrote:

Dear Afrinic Community,




The Board in March 2018, as per resolution 201803.391, tasked the Governance Committee (GC) to convene an investigation on allegations made by a staff member. The GC was requested to define the Terms of Reference (TORs) for an independent investigation, and to appoint an investigation committee.  The Board requested the findings to be reported by 30 April 2018.


The GC notified the community that they would deliver the report by 4 May 2018, and has submitted the report to the Board on 2 May 2018. The Board acknowledged receipt of the report. The Board is going to thoroughly consider the report and recommendations thereof, and will share with the community applicable actions and steps that will be taken in due course.


The Board has also been advised that in considering the report they need to be cognizant of issues of confidentiality and data protection.


With regards to allegations made against certain Board members, the Board can announce the following outcomes as derived from  the report:



  *   That there was a violation of the Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA) and  section 153 of the Companies Act 2001, by Mr Sunday Folayan.


  *   That there is no evidence whatsoever against Haitham El Nakhal of having breached the terms of the NDA and/or section 153 of the Companies Act 2001.



  *   That the Investigation Committee (IC) is satisfied that there was no evidence of harassment, bullying or intimidation by Board members.


The Board will re-evaluate the interim Chair and Vice Chair appointments that were made in resolution 201803.398.


With regards to allegations made against certain members of staff, the Board observed from the IC report  that there may have been inappropriate behaviour on the part of certain staff members.



The findings and recommendations related to staff matters will be addressed through necessary processes.


We appeal to the community to allow the Board time to consider the report carefully, and provide feedback to the community no later than 31 July 2018 on the next steps and how the recommendations will be implemented.



Kind regards

----


Abibu R. Ntahigiye

Chair, Afrinic Board.


_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>


_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
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From dndannang at gmail.com  Mon May  7 10:10:04 2018
From: dndannang at gmail.com (DANIEL NANGHAKA)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2018 13:10:04 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Board update on Governance Committee report
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR0301MB25707F99FD78932E22E38663EE9B0@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAPjmBy11aoYm-RQHE-GhR_zgmCS4FsxhJX=vDphUNm9vnjYgpQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <A1A71440-1EDD-4E99-9DF7-D38F93000BD1@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25707F99FD78932E22E38663EE9B0@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAD4W+iP4K23CC5JxkiLc0nh5WOuhS4UGvkVj-T9HW+6Q9cLn3A@mail.gmail.com>

Let the report be shared in full detail - that is all
?

On 7 May 2018 at 13:04, Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
wrote:

> Owen,
>
>
>
> I would even accept a minimally redacted version ? so long as the
> redactions can be clearly seen ? so we can see not the information that was
> redacted ? but the context around the redaction.
>
>
>
> But ? what we have at the moment is a report written by the board itself
> that has absolutely no independence whatsoever and no transparency ? that ?
> is not good enough
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Owen DeLong [mailto:owen at delong.com]
> *Sent:* 07 May 2018 12:56
> *To:* Ali Hussein <ali at hussein.me.ke>
> *Cc:* General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>;
> KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] Board update on Governance Committee
> report
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 7, 2018, at 07:04, Ali Hussein <ali at hussein.me.ke> wrote:
>
> Apologies for cross-posting. Every African I believe needs to know what is
> going on at AFRINIC. For those who are hearing about AFRINIC for the first
> time please follow the link below
>
>
>
> About Afrinic <https://www.afrinic.net/en/about/origins>
>
>
>
> Dear Abibu
>
>
>
> Thank you for your report. This is much appreciated.
>
>
>
> I would like to state the following:-
>
>
>
> 1. That the community was expecting the Board to share the FULL report.
> This is in line with Corporate Governance Ethos and:-
>
>
>
> While I do agree that the board should share a minimally redacted version
> of the report, expecting the full report is unreasonable. It is virtually
> guaranteed that the report contains privileged information and private data
> regarding AfriNIC personnel which it would be inappropriate to disclose
> publicly.
>
>
>
>
>
> a) It will go a long way in ensuring that the community doesn't feel
> (rightly or wrongly) that there is any cover up being perpetrated by the
> board.
>
> b) Protects the board from allegations of impropriety.
>
> c) Will serve to start the process of healing and ensuring that AFRINIC
> continues its very important role in the African Internet Ecosystem without
> the cloud that is currently hanging over it.
>
>
>
> Agreed, and I hope the board will soon release a report with only minimum
> redactions where such redactions are fully visible.
>
>
>
>
>
> 2. To quote you:-
>
>
>
> *?**'**?*
>
> *The Board has also been advised that in considering the report they need
> to be cognizant of issues of confidentiality and data protection*
>
> *?**'**?*
>
>
>
> ?For you to make such a statement the community would like to know which
> by-laws you are quoting from and for it to satisfied that there is going to
> be breaches of confidentiality and data protection if the original report
> is released.
>
>
>
> Seriously? Any report of this nature is likely to contain the following
> categories of such information:
>
>
>
> 1. Personally identifiable information about AfriNIC staff, including
> members not subjects of the investigation.
>
>
>
> 2. Confidential information subject to the board NDA.
>
>
>
> 3. HR sensitive data which cannot be legally disclosed.
>
>
>
>
>
> Finally, this is to my fellow community members :-
>
>
>
> Let us be circumspect? in how we engage on these emotive issues. Some of
> us seem to be engaging in a 'Scorched Earth Policy' agains the Board. This
> is ill advised. There are better ways of addressing these issues. With
> sobriety and a sense of collective responsibility. AFRINIC is a critical
> player in the ICT Ecosystem in Africa.
>
>
>
>
>
> ?Let us not throw the baby out with the bath water..
>
>
>
> Agreed.
>
>
>
> Owen
>
>
>
>
>
> Regards?
>
>
>
>
> *Ali Hussein*
>
> *Principal*
>
> *AHK & Associates*
>
>
>
> Tel: +254 713 601113
>
> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>
> Skype: abu-jomo
>
> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
>
>
>
> 13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing,
>
> Chiromo Road, Westlands,
>
> Nairobi, Kenya.
>
>
> Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely
> mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the
> organizations that I work with.
>
>
>
> On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 10:55 PM, Abibu Ntahigiye <
> abibu.ntahigiye at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Afrinic Community,
>
>
>
> The Board in March 2018, as per resolution 201803.391, tasked the
> Governance Committee (GC) to convene an investigation on allegations made
> by a staff member. The GC was requested to define the Terms of Reference
> (TORs) for an independent investigation, and to appoint an investigation
> committee.  The Board requested the findings to be reported by 30 April
> 2018.
>
>
>
> The GC notified the community that they would deliver the report by 4 May
> 2018, and has submitted the report to the Board on 2 May 2018. The Board
> acknowledged receipt of the report. The Board is going to thoroughly
> consider the report and recommendations thereof, and will share with the
> community applicable actions and steps that will be taken in due course.
>
>
>
> The Board has also been advised that in considering the report they need
> to be cognizant of issues of confidentiality and data protection.
>
>
>
> With regards to allegations made against certain Board members, the Board
> can announce the following outcomes as derived from  the report:
>
>
>
>    - That there was a violation of the Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA) and
>     section 153 of the Companies Act 2001, by Mr Sunday Folayan.
>
>
>
>    - That there is no evidence whatsoever against Haitham El Nakhal of
>    having breached the terms of the NDA and/or section 153 of the Companies
>    Act 2001.
>
>
>
>    - That the Investigation Committee (IC) is satisfied that there was no
>    evidence of harassment, bullying or intimidation by Board members.
>
>
>
> The Board will re-evaluate the interim Chair and Vice Chair appointments
> that were made in resolution 201803.398.
>
>
>
> With regards to allegations made against certain members of staff, the
> Board observed from the IC report  that there may have been inappropriate
> behaviour on the part of certain staff members.
>
>
>
> The findings and recommendations related to staff matters will be
> addressed through necessary processes.
>
>
>
> We appeal to the community to allow the Board time to consider the report
> carefully, and provide feedback to the community no later than 31 July 2018
> on the next steps and how the recommendations will be implemented.
>
>
>
> Kind regards
>
> ----
>
> Abibu R. Ntahigiye
>
> Chair, Afrinic Board.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>


-- 

Regards
Nanghaka Daniel K.
Executive Director - ILICIT Africa / Chair - FOSSFA / Community Lead - ISOC
Uganda Chapter / Geo4Africa Lead / Organising Team - FOSS4G2018
Mobile +256 772 898298 (Uganda)
Skype: daniel.nanghaka

----------------------------------------- *"Working for Africa" *
-----------------------------------------
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From badru.ntege at nftconsult.com  Mon May  7 10:41:40 2018
From: badru.ntege at nftconsult.com (Badru Ntege)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2018 10:41:40 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Board update on Governance Committee report
In-Reply-To: <CAMhquhHUw5omzb2RxWz5RmkLqwHiwUwPnuBQLhYcBXMLyzcPBw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMhquhHUw5omzb2RxWz5RmkLqwHiwUwPnuBQLhYcBXMLyzcPBw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <223DE98B-21D8-4B05-A8B2-77401DCA846F@nftconsult.com>

Chair

Following my submission yesterday I want to ask the board to rethink the current position taken.

We are here because of private information from conversations of the previous board chair that were made public.

Regardless on how that information came to light we have to understand the information.

It was clear that the board leadership at the time had created a situation which undermined the CEO at the time with conversations being shared with junior staff



Sent from my iPhone

On 6 May 2018, at 19:58, Abibu Ntahigiye <abibu.ntahigiye at gmail.com<mailto:abibu.ntahigiye at gmail.com>> wrote:


The Board has also been advised that in considering the report they need to be cognizant of issues of confidentiality and data protection.

It?s hard to reconcile this with actions being taken.




With regards to allegations made against certain Board members, the Board can announce the following outcomes as derived from  the report:



  *   That there was a violation of the Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA) and  section 153 of the Companies Act 2001, by Mr Sunday Folayan.

Agreed but we all knew this.



  *   That there is no evidence whatsoever against Haitham El Nakhal of having breached the terms of the NDA and/or section 153 of the Companies Act 2001.

But he was complicit in behavior unbecoming of a board member since it was clear he was part off the conversations.




  *   That the Investigation Committee (IC) is satisfied that there was no evidence of harassment, bullying or intimidation by Board members.

So the entire information shared to all the community was not true.  That our female members of staff were confused about the constant unwelcome advances from a former board member ??

Harassment is emotional and does not leave scientific evidence.  These are members of staff that have served this organization diligently and we have trusted them fully. However the first time they claim harassment we call them liars.



The Board will re-evaluate the interim Chair and Vice Chair appointments that were made in resolution 201803.398.

I believe there are more important issues for our organization than ego cleansing.  Both former chair and vice were complicit.


With regards to allegations made against certain members of staff, the Board observed from the IC report  that there may have been inappropriate behaviour on the part of certain staff members.

We are dancing arround the issue again. Are you telling us that we are still not sure ???

It is a fact that morale is low.

Board and executive need to get a grip. And stop procrastinating.


The findings and recommendations related to staff matters will be addressed through necessary processes

Please elaborate lightly on the processes from what i read in your email there are no issues.


We appeal to the community to allow the Board time to consider the report carefully, and provide feedback to the community no later than 31 July 2018 on the next steps and how the recommendations will be implemented.

Even non profits have standards to uphold. We cannot continue giving you time when you have not clearly defined what you plan to deliver apart from ensuring the perpetual survival of a non performing board.

I?m not for full board removal but I?m for the gradual transformation through elections.

Help us decide that we need no change moving forward or do we gradually add new people that will act on the issues.

We need positive action.








Kind regards

----

Abibu R. Ntahigiye

Chair, Afrinic Board.

_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
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From sfolayan at gmail.com  Mon May  7 11:09:37 2018
From: sfolayan at gmail.com (Sunday Folayan)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2018 12:09:37 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Board update on Governance Committee report
In-Reply-To: <CAMhquhHUw5omzb2RxWz5RmkLqwHiwUwPnuBQLhYcBXMLyzcPBw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMhquhHUw5omzb2RxWz5RmkLqwHiwUwPnuBQLhYcBXMLyzcPBw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2a7a44e7-76ee-9c8d-7e91-30e1b8d789bb@gmail.com>

Dear Chairman Abibu,

Thank you very much for the update to members and the Community.

The finding "That the Investigation Committee (IC) is satisfied that 
there was no evidence of harassment, bullying or intimidation by Board 
members"? a bit consoling, but also troubling because the release is a 
summary.The staff petition and allegations was not even about NDA 
violation by Sunday Folayan.

Kindly take note of the following:

1. The petitioner specifically mentioned "Sunday Folayan, Haitham 
El-Nakhal and other Board members". Why summarize the findings as "... 
by Board members?", knowing that Sunday Folayan is no more a Board 
member? Why not clear the accused outrightly and not in veiled 
statements. The statement on the NDA violation is very clear.

2 An accusation was made. Marriages and careers could have been 
destroyed, if not for some few people (Gabriella, Owen DeLong, Olutayo, 
Chivelier and Ben Roberts) that saw through the charade. Where is justice?

Injustice does not come in any different form. Some day, more truths 
will surface, and it will not be because of privacy issues.

I trust the membership and community will learn from this saga, and 
allow the healing process take place.

Let us give peace a chance for some sacrifices to be worthwhile. AFRINIC 
will wax stronger, this I know.

 ?I am now done, I will hold my peace.

Sunday.


On 06/05/2018 20:55, Abibu Ntahigiye wrote:
>
> Dear Afrinic Community,
>
>
> The Board in March 2018, as per resolution 201803.391, tasked the 
> Governance Committee (GC) to convene an investigation on allegations 
> made by a staff member. The GC was requested to define the Terms of 
> Reference (TORs) for an independent investigation, and to appoint an 
> investigation committee.? The Board requested the findings to be 
> reported by 30 April 2018.
>
>
> The GC notified the community that they would deliver the report by 4 
> May 2018, and has submitted the report to the Board on 2 May 2018. The 
> Board acknowledged receipt of the report. The Board is going to 
> thoroughly consider the report and recommendations thereof, and will 
> share with the community applicable actions and steps that will be 
> taken in due course.
>
>
> The Board has also been advised that in considering the report they 
> need to be cognizant of issues of confidentiality and data protection.
>
>
> With regards to allegations made against certain Board members, the 
> Board can announce the following outcomes as derived from ?the report:
>
>  *
>
>     That there was a violation of the Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA)
>     and ?section 153 of the Companies Act 2001, by Mr Sunday Folayan.
>
>
>  *
>
>     That there is no evidence whatsoever against Haitham El Nakhal of
>     having breached the terms of the NDA and/or section 153 of the
>     Companies Act 2001.
>
>  *
>
>     That the Investigation Committee (IC) is satisfied that there was
>     no evidence of harassment, bullying or intimidation by Board members.
>
>
> The Board will re-evaluate the interim Chair and Vice Chair 
> appointments that were made in resolution 201803.398.
>
>
> With regards to allegations made against certain members of staff, the 
> Board observed from the IC report ?that there may have been 
> inappropriate behaviour on the part of certain staff members.
>
>
> The findings and recommendations related to staff matters will be 
> addressed through necessary processes.
>
>
> We appeal to the community to allow the Board time to consider the 
> report carefully, and provide feedback to the community no later than 
> 31 July 2018 on the next steps and how the recommendations will be 
> implemented.
>
>
> Kind regards
>
> ----
>
> Abibu R. Ntahigiye
>
> Chair, Afrinic Board.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

-- 
--------------------------------------------------
Sunday Adekunle Folayan
Managing Director
General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
---------------------------------------------------

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From dndannang at gmail.com  Mon May  7 13:29:03 2018
From: dndannang at gmail.com (DANIEL NANGHAKA)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2018 16:29:03 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Board update on Governance Committee report
In-Reply-To: <2a7a44e7-76ee-9c8d-7e91-30e1b8d789bb@gmail.com>
References: <CAMhquhHUw5omzb2RxWz5RmkLqwHiwUwPnuBQLhYcBXMLyzcPBw@mail.gmail.com>
 <2a7a44e7-76ee-9c8d-7e91-30e1b8d789bb@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD4W+iNR6GTCNq17e81_cM6C+3cRs4woMXqbLY0PqCSfo-LQqg@mail.gmail.com>

Well Said Sunday,

I suggest that the Board write a proper explanation to the community,

The email that was sent by the Interim Chair looks so vague and does not
detail the findings. Since a report was made and this is a community issue,
why should the chair in summary which may not necessarily be a summary but
a personal opinion. The issue was raised and the community was very much
aware and was eagerly waiting for the report and if the report is not
shared then this suggest the investigation was not credible. The community
must have trust in the board and at this time i feel a marginalised trust
in board decisions.

The Board acknowledged receipt of the report. The Board is going to
thoroughly consider the report and recommendations thereof, and will share
with the community applicable actions and steps that will be taken in due
course.

The Board has also been advised that in considering the report they need to
be cognizant of issues of confidentiality and data protection.

Since the board recieved the report and considering the issue of
confidentilality, already the images of the various media used in the case
where the previous Board Chair (Sunday) showed violence of confidentiality,
private data was shared to the community, and I believe in Data protection
despite the fact these aspects cannot be generalised. I believe in AFRINIC
transparency and narrow the issue of transparency the case in question then
the Board must share with the community because there is nothing to review
since the review has been done. Why is the Board waiting to share the
applicable actions and steps in the due course? This is where immediate
response is required.

With regards to allegations made against certain members of staff, the
Board observed from the IC report  that there may have been inappropriate
behaviour on the part of certain staff members.

When you mention that there may have been inapprpriate behaviour - this
shows that there is a level of inappropriate behaviour which could also
have been appropriate. COuld you please clearly outline the inappropriate
behaviour - these vices of inappropriateness must be wiped from AFRINIC,
despite the fact that an organisation may not achieve 100% effeciency,
there is need to wipe out the discrepancies on the part of the certain
staff members. If the staff members are not worthy of the organisation and
jeopardise the organisation - I believe we have a great CEO who can handle
this.


We appeal to the community to allow the Board time to consider the report
carefully, and provide feedback to the community no later than 31 July 2018
on the next steps and how the recommendations will be implemented.

I believe the Board has ample time but 31st July is a lot of time thinking
of the How the recommendations will be implemented.

Thanks

Kind regards
Daniel K. N.

?

On 7 May 2018 at 14:09, Sunday Folayan <sfolayan at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Chairman Abibu,
> Thank you very much for the update to members and the Community.
>
> The finding "That the Investigation Committee (IC) is satisfied that
> there was no evidence of harassment, bullying or intimidation by Board
> members"  a bit consoling, but also troubling because the release is a
> summary. The staff petition and allegations was not even about NDA
> violation by Sunday Folayan.
>
> Kindly take note of the following:
>
> 1. The petitioner specifically mentioned "Sunday Folayan, Haitham
> El-Nakhal and other Board members". Why summarize the findings as "... by
> Board members?", knowing that Sunday Folayan is no more a Board member? Why
> not clear the accused outrightly and not in veiled statements. The
> statement on the NDA violation is very clear.
>
> 2 An accusation was made. Marriages and careers could have been destroyed,
> if not for some few people (Gabriella, Owen DeLong, Olutayo, Chivelier and
> Ben Roberts) that saw through the charade. Where is justice?
>
> Injustice does not come in any different form. Some day, more truths will
> surface, and it will not be because of privacy issues.
>
> I trust the membership and community will learn from this saga, and allow
> the healing process take place.
>
> Let us give peace a chance for some sacrifices to be worthwhile. AFRINIC
> will wax stronger, this I know.
>
>  I am now done, I will hold my peace.
>
> Sunday.
>
>
>
> On 06/05/2018 20:55, Abibu Ntahigiye wrote:
>
> Dear Afrinic Community,
>
>
> The Board in March 2018, as per resolution 201803.391, tasked the
> Governance Committee (GC) to convene an investigation on allegations made
> by a staff member. The GC was requested to define the Terms of Reference
> (TORs) for an independent investigation, and to appoint an investigation
> committee.  The Board requested the findings to be reported by 30 April
> 2018.
>
> The GC notified the community that they would deliver the report by 4 May
> 2018, and has submitted the report to the Board on 2 May 2018. The Board
> acknowledged receipt of the report. The Board is going to thoroughly
> consider the report and recommendations thereof, and will share with the
> community applicable actions and steps that will be taken in due course.
>
> The Board has also been advised that in considering the report they need
> to be cognizant of issues of confidentiality and data protection.
>
> With regards to allegations made against certain Board members, the Board
> can announce the following outcomes as derived from  the report:
>
>
>
>    -
>
>    That there was a violation of the Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA) and
>     section 153 of the Companies Act 2001, by Mr Sunday Folayan.
>
>
>
>    -
>
>    That there is no evidence whatsoever against Haitham El Nakhal of
>    having breached the terms of the NDA and/or section 153 of the Companies
>    Act 2001.
>
>
>
>    -
>
>    That the Investigation Committee (IC) is satisfied that there was no
>    evidence of harassment, bullying or intimidation by Board members.
>
>
> The Board will re-evaluate the interim Chair and Vice Chair appointments
> that were made in resolution 201803.398.
>
> With regards to allegations made against certain members of staff, the
> Board observed from the IC report  that there may have been inappropriate
> behaviour on the part of certain staff members.
>
>
> The findings and recommendations related to staff matters will be
> addressed through necessary processes.
>
> We appeal to the community to allow the Board time to consider the report
> carefully, and provide feedback to the community no later than 31 July 2018
> on the next steps and how the recommendations will be implemented.
>
>
> Kind regards
>
> ----
>
> Abibu R. Ntahigiye
>
> Chair, Afrinic Board.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------------
> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
> Managing Director
> General data Engineering Services (SKANNET)
> 16 Oshin Road, Kongi Bodija, Ibadan - Nigeria
> Phone: +234 802 291 2202, +234 816 866 7523
> Email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>


-- 

Regards
Nanghaka Daniel K.
Executive Director - ILICIT Africa / Chair - FOSSFA / Community Lead - ISOC
Uganda Chapter / Geo4Africa Lead / Organising Team - FOSS4G2018
Mobile +256 772 898298 (Uganda)
Skype: daniel.nanghaka

----------------------------------------- *"Working for Africa" *
-----------------------------------------
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From virtual.borg at gmail.com  Tue May  8 06:47:27 2018
From: virtual.borg at gmail.com (Chevalier du Borg)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2018 06:47:27 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] More meeting questions
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR0301MB25701366972E81D601210035EE9B0@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <HE1PR0301MB2570C0C90C02C8B5BCA1556AEE850@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <DB6PR0301MB256789B58EE4D22638ED5816EE850@DB6PR0301MB2567.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB2570D26D9757E041E0889379EE840@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25701366972E81D601210035EE9B0@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAH5aO8ety0so9hOn=9gxvjRyO8usjcLnXR2SkYr+d+sHgDOpjg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear M. Andrew,


Urgence is not determine by the incessant SHRIEKING from you

Since your grievance is member matter, please direct this to member list.
Some of us a getting TIRED of you abusing us with these DARK world of DOOM
where everything that you do not like or support is going to kill out
children.

I was hope that the fact that you have to reply to your own email 4 times
would give you a hint, but no.

Since there is NO HOPE that you

I.  Will understand that you have also become as BAD for this community as
you think the board is
II.  Will listen to any advice that doesn't come from yourself or an
android that you created in your image

Then maybe you should call your lawyers to tell the Senegalaise police to
go and stop this stupid, illegal meeting where the 'illuminati' (---of
which you were member until recently) are planning to kill african children
and women and sale their men into slavery again.





2018-05-07 9:28 GMT+00:00 Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>:

> Dear Board,
>
>
>
> You have a member that is (legitimately) protesting your notice of meeting
> ? we are now only days away from said meeting ? and there are still members
> who may be reading to travel to a meeting that may not end up occurring ?
> since it occurring would be contrary to the bylaws and the companies act.
>
>
>
> Can we please get a response to this ? it is a matter of urgency
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Andrew Alston
> *Sent:* 06 May 2018 17:16
> *To:* 'Andrew Alston' <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>; AFRINIC Board of
> Directors' List <Board at afrinic.net>; members-discuss at afrinic.net;
> community-discuss at afrinic.net
> *Subject:* RE: More meeting questions
>
>
>
> A few more notes about the contestation of the notice of meeting.
>
>
>
> I want to talk to the issue of precedent ? because I have a fear that some
> may attempt to argue ? without legal basis ? that there is precedent found
> in the fact that the notice of meeting in the past did not contain similar
> information and the meeting went ahead.
>
>
>
> To address this ? I wish to bring the communities attention to article
> 12.3 of the bylaws:
>
>
>
> 12.3 Any irregularity in a notice of an Annual General Member Meeting
> shall be waived where all the members entitled to attend and vote at the
> Annual General Members' Meeting attend the said Meeting without protest as
> to the irregularity, or where all members agree to the waiver.
>
>
>
> The critical part of this is that up until now no member entitled to
> attend and vote have protested the irregularity ? therefore ? past meetings
> were entirely valid.  However, that is no longer the case ? as a member ? I
> am entitled to attend the meeting ? and I am formally protesting the
> irregularities in the notice of meeting ? as such ? the issue of precedent
> is a moot point.
>
>
>
> I also need to bring the communities attention to the fact that this
> action is not without precedent in the internet community.  A very similar
> situation occurred with a late notice of meeting with the AMS-IX exchange
> in around 2004 or 2005 I believe ? and the board of AMS-IX did withdraw the
> meeting notice and reschedule ? as they were legally required to do.
>
>
>
> The records of this should still be on the AMS-IX mailing lists for those
> of you who are members of AMS-IX.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Andrew Alston [mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com
> <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>]
> *Sent:* 05 May 2018 20:42
> *To:* AFRINIC Board of Directors' List <Board at afrinic.net>;
> members-discuss at afrinic.net; community-discuss at afrinic.net
> *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] More meeting questions
>
>
>
> Just to point out ? that because clause 12.2.(d) explicitly refers to
> members ? the argument as regards registered members and waiver is actually
> mute ? because of the lack of information and the requirements for a valid
> meeting notice not being met ? a waiver is required from **every** member
> ? or in the alternative ? every member participating in the meeting (and
> that includes online participation) without any protest as to the notice of
> meeting being invalid
>
>
>
> Effectively ? the board requires a unanimous resolution from the floor
> that includes online participants in the meeting that waives the flaws in
> the notice of meeting ? not a majority ? not a super majority ? unanimous
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Andrew Alston
> *Sent:* 05 May 2018 17:52
> *To:* AFRINIC Board of Directors' List <Board at afrinic.net>;
> members-discuss at afrinic.net; community-discuss at afrinic.net
> *Subject:* More meeting questions
>
>
>
> Dear Board of Directors.
>
>
>
> The fifth schedule of the companies act, section 2, sub-paragraph (b)(i)
> states:
>
>
>
> (b) The notice shall state ?
>
> (i) the nature of the business to be transacted at the meeting in
> sufficient detail to enable a shareholder to form a reasoned judgment in
> relation to it; and
>
>
>
> It further goes on to state in section 2(f) that clause 2(b) stand
> irrespective of the bylaws or constitution of the company.
>
>
>
> The notice distributed for this meeting does not contain sufficient detail
> for any member to make reasoned judgement ? there is:
>
>
>
>    1. No Audit report as supplied by the Audit Committee attached
>    2. There is no detail as regards the appointment of the auditor
>    3. The proposed fee structure as detailed in referenced in section 5.4
>    of the meeting notice contains no detail
>    4. The proposed budget was not distributed by the meeting notice (as
>    referenced by section 5.3 of the meeting agenda)
>    5. There is nomcom report attached the meeting agenda
>
>
>
> As such ? this notice of meeting is invalid as per the companies act and
> as per section 12.2.(d) of the companies bylaws.
>
>
>
> As such ? you require the waiver of every participating member to continue
> with this meeting ? anything else ? and the meeting is simply not valid.
> Unless of course the board wishes to play the registered members card and
> once again prove to this membership base that they are not considered full
> members of this organisation as has been the claim for years.  If this
> board wishes to make this claim ? please state so explicitly ? if not ?
> please inform this community as to how you will go about seeking the waiver
> as is required by the companies act.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>


-- 
Borg le Chevalier
___________________________________
"Common sense is what tells us the world is flat"
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From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com  Tue May  8 06:51:31 2018
From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2018 06:51:31 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] More meeting questions
In-Reply-To: <CAH5aO8ety0so9hOn=9gxvjRyO8usjcLnXR2SkYr+d+sHgDOpjg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <HE1PR0301MB2570C0C90C02C8B5BCA1556AEE850@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <DB6PR0301MB256789B58EE4D22638ED5816EE850@DB6PR0301MB2567.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB2570D26D9757E041E0889379EE840@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25701366972E81D601210035EE9B0@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAH5aO8ety0so9hOn=9gxvjRyO8usjcLnXR2SkYr+d+sHgDOpjg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <HE1PR0301MB2570E2D159C94D3FF78C8DCCEE9A0@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Hahaha thanks for the amusement ?

That email was really really funny ? I needed a good laugh

Andrew


From: Chevalier du Borg [mailto:virtual.borg at gmail.com]
Sent: 08 May 2018 09:47
To: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
Cc: AFRINIC Board of Directors' List <Board at afrinic.net>; community-discuss at afrinic.net
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] More meeting questions


Dear M. Andrew,


Urgence is not determine by the incessant SHRIEKING from you

Since your grievance is member matter, please direct this to member list. Some of us a getting TIRED of you abusing us with these DARK world of DOOM where everything that you do not like or support is going to kill out children.

I was hope that the fact that you have to reply to your own email 4 times would give you a hint, but no.

Since there is NO HOPE that you

I.  Will understand that you have also become as BAD for this community as you think the board is
II.  Will listen to any advice that doesn't come from yourself or an android that you created in your image

Then maybe you should call your lawyers to tell the Senegalaise police to go and stop this stupid, illegal meeting where the 'illuminati' (---of which you were member until recently) are planning to kill african children and women and sale their men into slavery again.





2018-05-07 9:28 GMT+00:00 Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>>:
Dear Board,

You have a member that is (legitimately) protesting your notice of meeting ? we are now only days away from said meeting ? and there are still members who may be reading to travel to a meeting that may not end up occurring ? since it occurring would be contrary to the bylaws and the companies act.

Can we please get a response to this ? it is a matter of urgency

Andrew


From: Andrew Alston
Sent: 06 May 2018 17:16
To: 'Andrew Alston' <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>>; AFRINIC Board of Directors' List <Board at afrinic.net<mailto:Board at afrinic.net>>; members-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:members-discuss at afrinic.net>; community-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
Subject: RE: More meeting questions

A few more notes about the contestation of the notice of meeting.

I want to talk to the issue of precedent ? because I have a fear that some may attempt to argue ? without legal basis ? that there is precedent found in the fact that the notice of meeting in the past did not contain similar information and the meeting went ahead.

To address this ? I wish to bring the communities attention to article 12.3 of the bylaws:

12.3 Any irregularity in a notice of an Annual General Member Meeting shall be waived where all the members entitled to attend and vote at the Annual General Members' Meeting attend the said Meeting without protest as to the irregularity, or where all members agree to the waiver.

The critical part of this is that up until now no member entitled to attend and vote have protested the irregularity ? therefore ? past meetings were entirely valid.  However, that is no longer the case ? as a member ? I am entitled to attend the meeting ? and I am formally protesting the irregularities in the notice of meeting ? as such ? the issue of precedent is a moot point.

I also need to bring the communities attention to the fact that this action is not without precedent in the internet community.  A very similar situation occurred with a late notice of meeting with the AMS-IX exchange in around 2004 or 2005 I believe ? and the board of AMS-IX did withdraw the meeting notice and reschedule ? as they were legally required to do.

The records of this should still be on the AMS-IX mailing lists for those of you who are members of AMS-IX.

Thanks

Andrew



From: Andrew Alston [mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com]
Sent: 05 May 2018 20:42
To: AFRINIC Board of Directors' List <Board at afrinic.net<mailto:Board at afrinic.net>>; members-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:members-discuss at afrinic.net>; community-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] More meeting questions

Just to point out ? that because clause 12.2.(d) explicitly refers to members ? the argument as regards registered members and waiver is actually mute ? because of the lack of information and the requirements for a valid meeting notice not being met ? a waiver is required from *every* member ? or in the alternative ? every member participating in the meeting (and that includes online participation) without any protest as to the notice of meeting being invalid

Effectively ? the board requires a unanimous resolution from the floor that includes online participants in the meeting that waives the flaws in the notice of meeting ? not a majority ? not a super majority ? unanimous

Andrew


From: Andrew Alston
Sent: 05 May 2018 17:52
To: AFRINIC Board of Directors' List <Board at afrinic.net<mailto:Board at afrinic.net>>; members-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:members-discuss at afrinic.net>; community-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
Subject: More meeting questions

Dear Board of Directors.

The fifth schedule of the companies act, section 2, sub-paragraph (b)(i) states:

(b) The notice shall state ?
(i) the nature of the business to be transacted at the meeting in sufficient detail to enable a shareholder to form a reasoned judgment in relation to it; and

It further goes on to state in section 2(f) that clause 2(b) stand irrespective of the bylaws or constitution of the company.

The notice distributed for this meeting does not contain sufficient detail for any member to make reasoned judgement ? there is:


  1.  No Audit report as supplied by the Audit Committee attached
  2.  There is no detail as regards the appointment of the auditor
  3.  The proposed fee structure as detailed in referenced in section 5.4 of the meeting notice contains no detail
  4.  The proposed budget was not distributed by the meeting notice (as referenced by section 5.3 of the meeting agenda)
  5.  There is nomcom report attached the meeting agenda

As such ? this notice of meeting is invalid as per the companies act and as per section 12.2.(d) of the companies bylaws.

As such ? you require the waiver of every participating member to continue with this meeting ? anything else ? and the meeting is simply not valid.  Unless of course the board wishes to play the registered members card and once again prove to this membership base that they are not considered full members of this organisation as has been the claim for years.  If this board wishes to make this claim ? please state so explicitly ? if not ? please inform this community as to how you will go about seeking the waiver as is required by the companies act.

Thanks

Andrew


_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>



--
Borg le Chevalier
___________________________________
"Common sense is what tells us the world is flat"
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From virtual.borg at gmail.com  Tue May  8 08:13:26 2018
From: virtual.borg at gmail.com (Chevalier du Borg)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2018 08:13:26 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Board update on Governance Committee report
In-Reply-To: <223DE98B-21D8-4B05-A8B2-77401DCA846F@nftconsult.com>
References: <CAMhquhHUw5omzb2RxWz5RmkLqwHiwUwPnuBQLhYcBXMLyzcPBw@mail.gmail.com>
 <223DE98B-21D8-4B05-A8B2-77401DCA846F@nftconsult.com>
Message-ID: <CAH5aO8fkiPm+DQ=u-Qa2ONpXooRdKHVCbr83-dvY21GYiFRuhg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear M. Badru Ntege


You talk many times about leadership. In the name of this community that
you always invoke, please SHOW some


I. Do not let your vindictifness get in way of your leadership. It very
hard thing to do, but please try.
II. Maintain factfulness and logic as much as possible




2018-05-07 10:41 GMT+00:00 Badru Ntege <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com>:

>
> It was clear that the board leadership at the time had created a situation
> which undermined the CEO at the time with conversations being shared with
> junior staff
>


Do you have evidence that the ENTIRE BOARD LEADERSHIP shared the
conversation with junior staff? If yes, please share with board and GC. If
not then you are shooting spray gun.



>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 6 May 2018, at 19:58, Abibu Ntahigiye <abibu.ntahigiye at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> The Board has also been advised that in considering the report they need
> to be cognizant of issues of confidentiality and data protection.
>
>
> It?s hard to reconcile this with actions being taken.
>


I am also sure that many member of this community found some of your
actions as board chair hard to reconcile with. Some still find your action
in the community not so hard to reconcile with.


In first case, la community gave you benefit of doubt as elected chair.
Please do same for elected board
In second case, we just scratch our head and order another glass of wine
... :-)


>
>
>    -
>
>    That there is no evidence whatsoever against Haitham El Nakhal of
>    having breached the terms of the NDA and/or section 153 of the Companies
>    Act 2001.
>
>
> But he was complicit in behavior unbecoming of a board member since it was
> clear he was part off the conversations.
>



Private conversation between chair, vice and CEO is bad? Do you think CEO
and all other staff mentoned was also complicity in the behavior since they
was part off the conversation?




>
>
>
>
>    -
>
>    That the Investigation Committee (IC) is satisfied that there was no
>    evidence of harassment, bullying or intimidation by Board members.
>
>
> So the entire information shared to all the community was not true.  That
> our female members of staff were confused about the constant unwelcome
> advances from a former board member ??
>



Do you have evidence to back that up? Especially that it was constant and
directed to multiple FEMALE STAFF? Please share with board or GC.




>
> Harassment is emotional and does not leave scientific evidence.
>



Harrassment or claims of it can also be weaponized. Sometimes it leave
logical evidence.





>
>
>
> The Board will re-evaluate the interim Chair and Vice Chair appointments
> that were made in resolution 201803.398.
>
>
> I believe there are more important issues for our organization than ego
> cleansing.  Both former chair and vice were complicit.
>



Gee, why did we even need independent investigation? We can have just
listen to you. Your strong leadership and the HUGE community trust in you
makes corporate governance mechanicsm like independent investigator and GC
irrelevant.




>
> With regards to allegations made against certain members of staff, the
> Board observed from the IC report  that there may have been inappropriate
> behaviour on the part of certain staff members.
>
>
> We are dancing arround the issue again. Are you telling us that we are
> still not sure ???
>



>
> It is a fact that morale is low.
>



FACT? do we have same understanding of what a fact is? This coming from a
"leader" who speaking in name of the community is  (to borrow word M.
Alston) - - - APPALLING!!





>
> Board and executive need to get a grip. And stop procrastinating.
>
> The findings and recommendations related to staff matters will be
> addressed through necessary processes
>
>
> Please elaborate lightly on the processes from what i read in your email
> there are no issues.
>
> We appeal to the community to allow the Board time to consider the report
> carefully, and provide feedback to the community no later than 31 July 2018
> on the next steps and how the recommendations will be implemented.
>
>
> Even non profits have standards to uphold. We cannot continue giving you
> time when you have not clearly defined what you plan to deliver apart from
> ensuring the perpetual survival of a non performing board.
>
> I?m not for full board removal but I?m for the gradual transformation
> through elections.
>
> Help us decide that we need no change moving forward or do we gradually
> add new people that will act on the issues.
>
> We need positive action.
>



Dear M. Badru .... maybe you mean well. But your way of communicating makes
us distrust your INTENTIONS (please don't say it's for our community).


It is not too late. A good sign of a great leader is that they swallow
their ego several time a day but don't choke on it. Actually, I don't even
think it scientifically possible for anyone to choke after swallow their
ego.


We expect better leadership from you.


>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Kind regards
>
> ----
>
> Abibu R. Ntahigiye
>
> Chair, Afrinic Board.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>


-- 
Borg le Chevalier
___________________________________
"Common sense is what tells us the world is flat"
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From mje at posix.co.za  Tue May  8 12:08:28 2018
From: mje at posix.co.za (Mark Elkins)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2018 14:08:28 +0200
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] proposition de politique
In-Reply-To: <CAHOT-HXp1t8=xa8ovNdiUW7B4obwvjfq7TCwrLMSz8yoz+bGng@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHOT-HXp1t8=xa8ovNdiUW7B4obwvjfq7TCwrLMSz8yoz+bGng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8f166518-0ef5-661f-70b4-ab91be6a306d@posix.co.za>

Totally agree with you. I believe that NIRs would potentially break
(harm) the whole bottom-up approach. They could also have different
policies and it also potentially breaks ISP's that have cross-border
activities. I like it that AfriNIC currently has no NIRs.


On 08/05/2018 13:23, Kossi Amessinou wrote:
> Bonsoir ? tous,
> Il appara?t urgent pour notre communaut? de veiller ? ce que le
> principe de la mise en place des NIR par pays soit supprim?. Il faut
> retenir comme principe le mod?le LIR et End User pour notre r?gion
> (RIR). Il faut emp?cher les gouvernements et les r?gulateurs d'avoir
> une action pr?pond?rante sur internet en les d?courageant de mettre en
> place des NIR. M?me si des lois sont pris dans des pays, la communaut?
> doit rester plus forte pour que internet reste un bien public
> international inali?nable.?
> En conclusion, dans notre r?gion, je recommande que nous ayons un RIR
> avec? des LIR et des End User. Il faut supprimer les NIR. Merci.
>
> -- 
> AMESSINOU Kossi
> Ing?nieur TIC | ICT Engineer
> Contact personnel: 00229 95 19 67 02
> Bo?te Postale: 01BP7304 Cotonou - B?nin
> Emails: kossi.amessinou at fgi.bj <mailto:kossi.amessinou at fgi.bj>
> kamessinou at developpement.gouv.bj <mailto:kamessinou at developpement.gouv.bj>
> amessinoukossi at gmail.com <mailto:amessinoukossi at gmail.com>
> skype: amessinou | @amessinou | @bigf
> http://www.facebook.com/amessinoukossi |
> www.linkedin.com/pub/kossi-amessinou
> <http://www.linkedin.com/pub/kossi-amessinou>
> Que Dieu vous b?nisse | Dans le silence, Dieu nous parle! Ma parole
> est mon pouvoir.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> RPD mailing list
> RPD at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd

-- 
Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
mje at posix.co.za       Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za

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From jordi.palet at consulintel.es  Tue May  8 12:26:14 2018
From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)
Date: Tue, 08 May 2018 12:26:14 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] proposition de politique
In-Reply-To: <8f166518-0ef5-661f-70b4-ab91be6a306d@posix.co.za>
References: <CAHOT-HXp1t8=xa8ovNdiUW7B4obwvjfq7TCwrLMSz8yoz+bGng@mail.gmail.com>
 <8f166518-0ef5-661f-70b4-ab91be6a306d@posix.co.za>
Message-ID: <6BFF4C89-1073-4372-9BBF-4D54F8D312DB@consulintel.es>

I?ve also the same opinion, in general NIRs are not needed, but I have the feeling that this may be beyond the scope of AfriNIC.

 

What happen if a country law mandate it? Then AfriNIC members of that country will be mandated by law to go via the NIR.

 

Of course, you can ?strongly discourage? it by means of pieces:
AfriNIC bylaws disallowing NIRs.
There is no mention of NIR in the policy manual, I just looked at it, so if you can reinforce that with a policy proposal that specifically modify the existing definition of LIR.
 

Actual text:

 

2.3 Local Internet Registry (LIR)

A Local Internet Registry (LIR) is an IR that receives allocations from an RIR and primarily assigns address space to 'end-users'. LIRs are generally ISPs. Their customers are other ISPs and possibly end-users. LIRs must be members of AFRINIC.

 

Proposed text:

 

2.3 Local Internet Registry (LIR)

A Local Internet Registry (LIR) is an IR that receives allocations from an RIR and primarily assigns address space to 'end-users'. LIRs are generally ISPs. Their customers are other ISPs and possibly end-users. LIRs must be members of AFRINIC and are the only way to allocate resources within the AfriNIC service region.

 


Regards,

Jordi

 

 

De: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za>
Organizaci?n: Posix Systems
Responder a: <mje at posix.co.za>
Fecha: martes, 8 de mayo de 2018, 12:16
Para: AfriNIC Resource Policy <rpd at afrinic.net>, <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
Asunto: Re: [rpd] proposition de politique

 

Totally agree with you. I believe that NIRs would potentially break (harm) the whole bottom-up approach. They could also have different policies and it also potentially breaks ISP's that have cross-border activities. I like it that AfriNIC currently has no NIRs.

 

On 08/05/2018 13:23, Kossi Amessinou wrote:

Bonsoir ? tous, 

Il appara?t urgent pour notre communaut? de veiller ? ce que le principe de la mise en place des NIR par pays soit supprim?. Il faut retenir comme principe le mod?le LIR et End User pour notre r?gion (RIR). Il faut emp?cher les gouvernements et les r?gulateurs d'avoir une action pr?pond?rante sur internet en les d?courageant de mettre en place des NIR. M?me si des lois sont pris dans des pays, la communaut? doit rester plus forte pour que internet reste un bien public international inali?nable. 

En conclusion, dans notre r?gion, je recommande que nous ayons un RIR avec  des LIR et des End User. Il faut supprimer les NIR. Merci.
 

-- 

AMESSINOU Kossi
Ing?nieur TIC | ICT Engineer
Contact personnel: 00229 95 19 67 02
Bo?te Postale: 01BP7304 Cotonou - B?nin
Emails: kossi.amessinou at fgi.bj
kamessinou at developpement.gouv.bj
amessinoukossi at gmail.com
skype: amessinou | @amessinou | @bigf
http://www.facebook.com/amessinoukossi | 
www.linkedin.com/pub/kossi-amessinou
Que Dieu vous b?nisse | Dans le silence, Dieu nous parle! Ma parole est mon pouvoir.




_______________________________________________
RPD mailing list
RPD at afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd


-- 
Mark James ELKINS? -? Posix Systems - (South) Africa
mje at posix.co.za?????? Tel: +27.128070590? Cell: +27.826010496
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
_______________________________________________ RPD mailing list RPD at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd 



**********************************************
IPv4 is over
Are you ready for the new Internet ?
http://www.consulintel.es
The IPv6 Company

This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.

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From jordi.palet at consulintel.es  Tue May  8 12:28:42 2018
From: jordi.palet at consulintel.es (JORDI PALET MARTINEZ)
Date: Tue, 08 May 2018 12:28:42 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] proposition de politique
In-Reply-To: <92A69BC8-9A78-4BEF-9D56-4D0647D9E56D@consulintel.es>
References: <CAHOT-HXp1t8=xa8ovNdiUW7B4obwvjfq7TCwrLMSz8yoz+bGng@mail.gmail.com>
 <8f166518-0ef5-661f-70b4-ab91be6a306d@posix.co.za>
 <92A69BC8-9A78-4BEF-9D56-4D0647D9E56D@consulintel.es>
Message-ID: <84484EFF-B895-487C-954C-EA79127A9C7D@consulintel.es>

When I said bylaws, I was actually thinking in membership agreement, but actually either way (or both) may work.


Regards,

Jordi

 

 

De: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>
Fecha: martes, 8 de mayo de 2018, 12:26
Para: AfriNIC Resource Policy <rpd at afrinic.net>, <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
Asunto: Re: [rpd] proposition de politique

 

I?ve also the same opinion, in general NIRs are not needed, but I have the feeling that this may be beyond the scope of AfriNIC.

 

What happen if a country law mandate it? Then AfriNIC members of that country will be mandated by law to go via the NIR.

 

Of course, you can ?strongly discourage? it by means of pieces:

1)      AfriNIC bylaws disallowing NIRs.

2)      There is no mention of NIR in the policy manual, I just looked at it, so if you can reinforce that with a policy proposal that specifically modify the existing definition of LIR.

 

Actual text:

 

2.3 Local Internet Registry (LIR)

A Local Internet Registry (LIR) is an IR that receives allocations from an RIR and primarily assigns address space to 'end-users'. LIRs are generally ISPs. Their customers are other ISPs and possibly end-users. LIRs must be members of AFRINIC.

 

Proposed text:

 

2.3 Local Internet Registry (LIR)

A Local Internet Registry (LIR) is an IR that receives allocations from an RIR and primarily assigns address space to 'end-users'. LIRs are generally ISPs. Their customers are other ISPs and possibly end-users. LIRs must be members of AFRINIC and are the only way to allocate resources within the AfriNIC service region.

 


Regards,

Jordi

 

 

De: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za>
Organizaci?n: Posix Systems
Responder a: <mje at posix.co.za>
Fecha: martes, 8 de mayo de 2018, 12:16
Para: AfriNIC Resource Policy <rpd at afrinic.net>, <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
Asunto: Re: [rpd] proposition de politique

 

Totally agree with you. I believe that NIRs would potentially break (harm) the whole bottom-up approach. They could also have different policies and it also potentially breaks ISP's that have cross-border activities. I like it that AfriNIC currently has no NIRs.

 

On 08/05/2018 13:23, Kossi Amessinou wrote:

Bonsoir ? tous, 

Il appara?t urgent pour notre communaut? de veiller ? ce que le principe de la mise en place des NIR par pays soit supprim?. Il faut retenir comme principe le mod?le LIR et End User pour notre r?gion (RIR). Il faut emp?cher les gouvernements et les r?gulateurs d'avoir une action pr?pond?rante sur internet en les d?courageant de mettre en place des NIR. M?me si des lois sont pris dans des pays, la communaut? doit rester plus forte pour que internet reste un bien public international inali?nable. 

En conclusion, dans notre r?gion, je recommande que nous ayons un RIR avec  des LIR et des End User. Il faut supprimer les NIR. Merci.
 

-- 

AMESSINOU Kossi
Ing?nieur TIC | ICT Engineer
Contact personnel: 00229 95 19 67 02
Bo?te Postale: 01BP7304 Cotonou - B?nin
Emails: kossi.amessinou at fgi.bj
kamessinou at developpement.gouv.bj
amessinoukossi at gmail.com
skype: amessinou | @amessinou | @bigf
http://www.facebook.com/amessinoukossi | 
www.linkedin.com/pub/kossi-amessinou
Que Dieu vous b?nisse | Dans le silence, Dieu nous parle! Ma parole est mon pouvoir.





_______________________________________________
RPD mailing list
RPD at afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd



-- 
Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
mje at posix.co.za       Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
_______________________________________________ RPD mailing list RPD at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd 



**********************************************
IPv4 is over
Are you ready for the new Internet ?
http://www.consulintel.es
The IPv6 Company

This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.

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From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com  Tue May  8 13:02:55 2018
From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2018 13:02:55 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] proposition de politique
In-Reply-To: <CAHOT-HXp1t8=xa8ovNdiUW7B4obwvjfq7TCwrLMSz8yoz+bGng@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHOT-HXp1t8=xa8ovNdiUW7B4obwvjfq7TCwrLMSz8yoz+bGng@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <HE1PR0301MB2570267B975A13B0FD801A84EE9A0@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>

While I do not support the concept of NIR?s ? the strongest argument against the NIR?s is to prove the bottom up approach is functional and works correctly.

That means:


  1.  A PDP that is not tied to geopolitical/linguistic politics and where location of author means more than the policy itself
  2.  A functional RIR where the board supports the bottom up approach and is entirely transparent in everything it does
  3.  A cost base that makes it non-viable for an NIR to function in a competitive manner
  4.  Policies within the RIR that benefit the entire continent and not just segments of it
  5.  The ability of members to source IP space beyond the RIR if the RIR cannot supply their needs

Basically ? if you want to fight the NIR system ? the way to do that is to have a strong, functional and united RIR ? and right now ? I don?t believe we have anything close to that ? so ? rather than fight the NIR systems ? how about we fix AfriNIC instead?

Andrew


From: Kossi Amessinou [mailto:amessinoukossi at gmail.com]
Sent: 08 May 2018 14:23
To: AfriNIC Resource Policy <rpd at afrinic.net>; community-discuss at afrinic.net
Subject: [rpd] proposition de politique

Bonsoir ? tous,
Il appara?t urgent pour notre communaut? de veiller ? ce que le principe de la mise en place des NIR par pays soit supprim?. Il faut retenir comme principe le mod?le LIR et End User pour notre r?gion (RIR). Il faut emp?cher les gouvernements et les r?gulateurs d'avoir une action pr?pond?rante sur internet en les d?courageant de mettre en place des NIR. M?me si des lois sont pris dans des pays, la communaut? doit rester plus forte pour que internet reste un bien public international inali?nable.
En conclusion, dans notre r?gion, je recommande que nous ayons un RIR avec  des LIR et des End User. Il faut supprimer les NIR. Merci.

--
AMESSINOU Kossi
Ing?nieur TIC | ICT Engineer
Contact personnel: 00229 95 19 67 02
Bo?te Postale: 01BP7304 Cotonou - B?nin
Emails: kossi.amessinou at fgi.bj<mailto:kossi.amessinou at fgi.bj>
kamessinou at developpement.gouv.bj<mailto:kamessinou at developpement.gouv.bj>
amessinoukossi at gmail.com<mailto:amessinoukossi at gmail.com>
skype: amessinou | @amessinou | @bigf
http://www.facebook.com/amessinoukossi<http://www.facebook.com/amessinoukossi> |
www.linkedin.com/pub/kossi-amessinou<http://www.linkedin.com/pub/kossi-amessinou>
Que Dieu vous b?nisse | Dans le silence, Dieu nous parle! Ma parole est mon pouvoir.
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From badru.ntege at nftconsult.com  Tue May  8 13:13:31 2018
From: badru.ntege at nftconsult.com (Badru Ntege)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2018 13:13:31 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Board update on Governance Committee report
In-Reply-To: <CAH5aO8fkiPm+DQ=u-Qa2ONpXooRdKHVCbr83-dvY21GYiFRuhg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMhquhHUw5omzb2RxWz5RmkLqwHiwUwPnuBQLhYcBXMLyzcPBw@mail.gmail.com>
 <223DE98B-21D8-4B05-A8B2-77401DCA846F@nftconsult.com>,
 <CAH5aO8fkiPm+DQ=u-Qa2ONpXooRdKHVCbr83-dvY21GYiFRuhg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <89928A402B8D754083A6F50CB52B2A5702580674B9@NFT-P-EX2.nftconsult.com>

Chevalier

First and foremost I have no wish to fully remove a board that was elected by the community.  However as a community member i have a right to comment just like you have a right to make a comment on my submissions.

If you fully read and understood my comments you would see that i was focussing on the content of chairs letter which was in relation to information that found its way onto the public forum.

Issue on leadership is subjective and you are free to conclude whether you have good leadership and bad leadership. we open ourselves to feedback through this public forum and i will take some of your comments as either advise or comment.

My email and many other emails from many other physical members on this list are our free expression of opinion sometimes liked and sometimes disliked.

The issue at hand was very clear and the community myself included shared our views, through the bottom up concepts and board acted.

Members of the community myself "in person" have commented on the outcomes and fill the outcome did not go far enough to solve a current problem and set a good foundation for Afrinic going forward.

We very often take issues of Harassment as allegations and try to apply scientific reasoning around it.  It was for this reason that members of current and past staff put their careers at risk by providing the evidence.   Which we all read so makes me wonder how we find "no evidence of harassment" ??


So yes I'm not happy with the outcome when it comes to the issue of the report saying there was no evidence of harassement.

I will not go into detail to respond to some of your comments directed at me as this is not about me.  However i will read then and take note to improve where i can but continue to share openly as a full member of this community.

Regards

i notice your email "virtual.borg at gmail.com".   would like to meet the real person one day.






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From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com  Tue May  8 13:24:20 2018
From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2018 13:24:20 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] More meeting questions
In-Reply-To: <CAH5aO8ety0so9hOn=9gxvjRyO8usjcLnXR2SkYr+d+sHgDOpjg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <HE1PR0301MB2570C0C90C02C8B5BCA1556AEE850@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <DB6PR0301MB256789B58EE4D22638ED5816EE850@DB6PR0301MB2567.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB2570D26D9757E041E0889379EE840@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25701366972E81D601210035EE9B0@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <CAH5aO8ety0so9hOn=9gxvjRyO8usjcLnXR2SkYr+d+sHgDOpjg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <HE1PR0301MB2570865E87A4757AE5D33B3AEE9A0@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Chevalier,

Let me now that I have stopped laughing comment directly.

Firstly ? I am a member of this community ? and I represent multiple resource members ? I have every right to ask the board of an organisation that receives vast amounts of money every year to follow the law and follow the bylaws ? and demand good corporate governance.  If my demanding that the board follows the bylaws upsets you ? and is held to account to the letter of the bylaws ? then ? either you have a problem with the bylaws ? or you believe that the board is somehow beyond the rules and wish to apply subjective rules ? that we will never agree on.

Secondly ? since the community are observers at an AGMM and are allowed to take to the microphone ? this is beyond a members issue ? it speaks to the entire community when community members may have travelled to have their say ? at a meeting that is in blatant violation of the bylaws and the law ? that ? is a community issue.

Thirdly ? The community demanded an independent investigative report ? we have not been given one ? we have been given a board report on an investigative report ? with no way to verify what is in the actual report itself ? that is not an independent report.

I make no apologies for the questions I have asked ? and I will keep asking ? if there is one thing that should have become apparent about me over the years ? I don?t let go ? and I will keep going until such time as I feel that my questions have been answered.  I may not always like the answers ? but I will demand answers ? because that is my right as a member of this community, as it is your right to ask, and as it is your right to disagree or agree with the answers.

One rule in life ? you can fight the answers ? but you cannot fight the questions ? because the day you wish to stop the questions coming ? is the day you wish to impose your own views on others without giving them the right to question your views ? and that is contradictory to growth, it is contradictory to democracy, it is contradictory to transparency and it is certainly contradictory to a bottom up approach where all members have the right to question the organisation that we fund and that we keep alive.

Remember something ? it was our votes that put this board in place ? and it is our right to question our elected representatives ? and our right to remove them if they fail to live up to what they are meant to.

Andrew


From: Chevalier du Borg [mailto:virtual.borg at gmail.com]
Sent: 08 May 2018 09:47
To: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
Cc: AFRINIC Board of Directors' List <Board at afrinic.net>; community-discuss at afrinic.net
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] More meeting questions


Dear M. Andrew,


Urgence is not determine by the incessant SHRIEKING from you

Since your grievance is member matter, please direct this to member list. Some of us a getting TIRED of you abusing us with these DARK world of DOOM where everything that you do not like or support is going to kill out children.

I was hope that the fact that you have to reply to your own email 4 times would give you a hint, but no.

Since there is NO HOPE that you

I.  Will understand that you have also become as BAD for this community as you think the board is
II.  Will listen to any advice that doesn't come from yourself or an android that you created in your image

Then maybe you should call your lawyers to tell the Senegalaise police to go and stop this stupid, illegal meeting where the 'illuminati' (---of which you were member until recently) are planning to kill african children and women and sale their men into slavery again.





2018-05-07 9:28 GMT+00:00 Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>>:
Dear Board,

You have a member that is (legitimately) protesting your notice of meeting ? we are now only days away from said meeting ? and there are still members who may be reading to travel to a meeting that may not end up occurring ? since it occurring would be contrary to the bylaws and the companies act.

Can we please get a response to this ? it is a matter of urgency

Andrew


From: Andrew Alston
Sent: 06 May 2018 17:16
To: 'Andrew Alston' <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>>; AFRINIC Board of Directors' List <Board at afrinic.net<mailto:Board at afrinic.net>>; members-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:members-discuss at afrinic.net>; community-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
Subject: RE: More meeting questions

A few more notes about the contestation of the notice of meeting.

I want to talk to the issue of precedent ? because I have a fear that some may attempt to argue ? without legal basis ? that there is precedent found in the fact that the notice of meeting in the past did not contain similar information and the meeting went ahead.

To address this ? I wish to bring the communities attention to article 12.3 of the bylaws:

12.3 Any irregularity in a notice of an Annual General Member Meeting shall be waived where all the members entitled to attend and vote at the Annual General Members' Meeting attend the said Meeting without protest as to the irregularity, or where all members agree to the waiver.

The critical part of this is that up until now no member entitled to attend and vote have protested the irregularity ? therefore ? past meetings were entirely valid.  However, that is no longer the case ? as a member ? I am entitled to attend the meeting ? and I am formally protesting the irregularities in the notice of meeting ? as such ? the issue of precedent is a moot point.

I also need to bring the communities attention to the fact that this action is not without precedent in the internet community.  A very similar situation occurred with a late notice of meeting with the AMS-IX exchange in around 2004 or 2005 I believe ? and the board of AMS-IX did withdraw the meeting notice and reschedule ? as they were legally required to do.

The records of this should still be on the AMS-IX mailing lists for those of you who are members of AMS-IX.

Thanks

Andrew



From: Andrew Alston [mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com]
Sent: 05 May 2018 20:42
To: AFRINIC Board of Directors' List <Board at afrinic.net<mailto:Board at afrinic.net>>; members-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:members-discuss at afrinic.net>; community-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] More meeting questions

Just to point out ? that because clause 12.2.(d) explicitly refers to members ? the argument as regards registered members and waiver is actually mute ? because of the lack of information and the requirements for a valid meeting notice not being met ? a waiver is required from *every* member ? or in the alternative ? every member participating in the meeting (and that includes online participation) without any protest as to the notice of meeting being invalid

Effectively ? the board requires a unanimous resolution from the floor that includes online participants in the meeting that waives the flaws in the notice of meeting ? not a majority ? not a super majority ? unanimous

Andrew


From: Andrew Alston
Sent: 05 May 2018 17:52
To: AFRINIC Board of Directors' List <Board at afrinic.net<mailto:Board at afrinic.net>>; members-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:members-discuss at afrinic.net>; community-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
Subject: More meeting questions

Dear Board of Directors.

The fifth schedule of the companies act, section 2, sub-paragraph (b)(i) states:

(b) The notice shall state ?
(i) the nature of the business to be transacted at the meeting in sufficient detail to enable a shareholder to form a reasoned judgment in relation to it; and

It further goes on to state in section 2(f) that clause 2(b) stand irrespective of the bylaws or constitution of the company.

The notice distributed for this meeting does not contain sufficient detail for any member to make reasoned judgement ? there is:


  1.  No Audit report as supplied by the Audit Committee attached
  2.  There is no detail as regards the appointment of the auditor
  3.  The proposed fee structure as detailed in referenced in section 5.4 of the meeting notice contains no detail
  4.  The proposed budget was not distributed by the meeting notice (as referenced by section 5.3 of the meeting agenda)
  5.  There is nomcom report attached the meeting agenda

As such ? this notice of meeting is invalid as per the companies act and as per section 12.2.(d) of the companies bylaws.

As such ? you require the waiver of every participating member to continue with this meeting ? anything else ? and the meeting is simply not valid.  Unless of course the board wishes to play the registered members card and once again prove to this membership base that they are not considered full members of this organisation as has been the claim for years.  If this board wishes to make this claim ? please state so explicitly ? if not ? please inform this community as to how you will go about seeking the waiver as is required by the companies act.

Thanks

Andrew


_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>



--
Borg le Chevalier
___________________________________
"Common sense is what tells us the world is flat"
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From madomey at hotmail.com  Tue May  8 23:14:44 2018
From: madomey at hotmail.com (Marcus K. G. Adomey)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2018 23:14:44 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Withdrawal from the race for election to the
	Appeal Committee!!!
Message-ID: <AM0PR0602MB36037C3F4B89A412363C2C1BB99A0@AM0PR0602MB3603.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Dear NumCom Chair and Community,

This is to inform you that I have decided to withdraw from the race for election to the Appeal Committee.  Any inconvenience caused is highly regretted.

Thank you,



Marcus K. G. Adomey

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From abibu.ntahigiye at gmail.com  Wed May  9 00:11:44 2018
From: abibu.ntahigiye at gmail.com (Abibu Ntahigiye)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 00:11:44 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [Board-Discuss] More meeting questions
Message-ID: <CAMhquhE3ZtRsVTvr4MXU24b4iA1K3LKxCm_QF28Srw9sMKpBwg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Andrew,



We acknowledge the questions you raised in email dated 5 May 2018.



The Board believes that the notice of the AGMM (to be held on 10 May 2018)
complies with the requirement in the AFRINIC Bylaws article 12.2.  The
notice of meeting contains a similar level of detail as was used in
previous years, and the Board has been advised that a similar level of
detail is typically used by other Mauritian companies.


rgds

Abibu R. Ntahigiye

Chair, Afrinic BoD.




On 7 May 2018 at 09:28, Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
wrote:

> Dear Board,
>
>
>
> You have a member that is (legitimately) protesting your notice of meeting
> ? we are now only days away from said meeting ? and there are still members
> who may be reading to travel to a meeting that may not end up occurring ?
> since it occurring would be contrary to the bylaws and the companies act.
>
>
>
> Can we please get a response to this ? it is a matter of urgency
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Andrew Alston
> *Sent:* 06 May 2018 17:16
> *To:* 'Andrew Alston' <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>; AFRINIC Board of
> Directors' List <Board at afrinic.net>; members-discuss at afrinic.net;
> community-discuss at afrinic.net
> *Subject:* RE: More meeting questions
>
>
>
> A few more notes about the contestation of the notice of meeting.
>
>
>
> I want to talk to the issue of precedent ? because I have a fear that some
> may attempt to argue ? without legal basis ? that there is precedent found
> in the fact that the notice of meeting in the past did not contain similar
> information and the meeting went ahead.
>
>
>
> To address this ? I wish to bring the communities attention to article
> 12.3 of the bylaws:
>
>
>
> 12.3 Any irregularity in a notice of an Annual General Member Meeting
> shall be waived where all the members entitled to attend and vote at the
> Annual General Members' Meeting attend the said Meeting without protest as
> to the irregularity, or where all members agree to the waiver.
>
>
>
> The critical part of this is that up until now no member entitled to
> attend and vote have protested the irregularity ? therefore ? past meetings
> were entirely valid.  However, that is no longer the case ? as a member ? I
> am entitled to attend the meeting ? and I am formally protesting the
> irregularities in the notice of meeting ? as such ? the issue of precedent
> is a moot point.
>
>
>
> I also need to bring the communities attention to the fact that this
> action is not without precedent in the internet community.  A very similar
> situation occurred with a late notice of meeting with the AMS-IX exchange
> in around 2004 or 2005 I believe ? and the board of AMS-IX did withdraw the
> meeting notice and reschedule ? as they were legally required to do.
>
>
>
> The records of this should still be on the AMS-IX mailing lists for those
> of you who are members of AMS-IX.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Andrew Alston [mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com
> <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>]
> *Sent:* 05 May 2018 20:42
> *To:* AFRINIC Board of Directors' List <Board at afrinic.net>;
> members-discuss at afrinic.net; community-discuss at afrinic.net
> *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] More meeting questions
>
>
>
> Just to point out ? that because clause 12.2.(d) explicitly refers to
> members ? the argument as regards registered members and waiver is actually
> mute ? because of the lack of information and the requirements for a valid
> meeting notice not being met ? a waiver is required from **every** member
> ? or in the alternative ? every member participating in the meeting (and
> that includes online participation) without any protest as to the notice of
> meeting being invalid
>
>
>
> Effectively ? the board requires a unanimous resolution from the floor
> that includes online participants in the meeting that waives the flaws in
> the notice of meeting ? not a majority ? not a super majority ? unanimous
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Andrew Alston
> *Sent:* 05 May 2018 17:52
> *To:* AFRINIC Board of Directors' List <Board at afrinic.net>;
> members-discuss at afrinic.net; community-discuss at afrinic.net
> *Subject:* More meeting questions
>
>
>
> Dear Board of Directors.
>
>
>
> The fifth schedule of the companies act, section 2, sub-paragraph (b)(i)
> states:
>
>
>
> (b) The notice shall state ?
>
> (i) the nature of the business to be transacted at the meeting in
> sufficient detail to enable a shareholder to form a reasoned judgment in
> relation to it; and
>
>
>
> It further goes on to state in section 2(f) that clause 2(b) stand
> irrespective of the bylaws or constitution of the company.
>
>
>
> The notice distributed for this meeting does not contain sufficient detail
> for any member to make reasoned judgement ? there is:
>
>
>
>    1. No Audit report as supplied by the Audit Committee attached
>    2. There is no detail as regards the appointment of the auditor
>    3. The proposed fee structure as detailed in referenced in section 5.4
>    of the meeting notice contains no detail
>    4. The proposed budget was not distributed by the meeting notice (as
>    referenced by section 5.3 of the meeting agenda)
>    5. There is nomcom report attached the meeting agenda
>
>
>
> As such ? this notice of meeting is invalid as per the companies act and
> as per section 12.2.(d) of the companies bylaws.
>
>
>
> As such ? you require the waiver of every participating member to continue
> with this meeting ? anything else ? and the meeting is simply not valid.
> Unless of course the board wishes to play the registered members card and
> once again prove to this membership base that they are not considered full
> members of this organisation as has been the claim for years.  If this
> board wishes to make this claim ? please state so explicitly ? if not ?
> please inform this community as to how you will go about seeking the waiver
> as is required by the companies act.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> board mailing list
> board at afrinic.net
> https://board-list.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/board
>
>
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From sander at steffann.nl  Wed May  9 06:50:38 2018
From: sander at steffann.nl (Sander Steffann)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 08:50:38 +0200
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
Message-ID: <34B9AD2F-7601-4F42-B3F9-694FC652DBC5@steffann.nl>

Hello community,

I just noticed that the problems in Afrinic have reached the outside world beyond our community: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/08/afrinic_sexual_harassment/

It makes me really sad. It also poses a great risk to the future of the bottom up self regulation system we (speaking of all the RIRs) have built. Afrinic must get its act together and show the world that it is a respectable, reliable and fair organisation with broad support from its members.

Cheers,
Sander

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From dewole at tinitop.com  Wed May  9 07:17:24 2018
From: dewole at tinitop.com (Adewole Ajao)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 08:17:24 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
In-Reply-To: <34B9AD2F-7601-4F42-B3F9-694FC652DBC5@steffann.nl>
References: <34B9AD2F-7601-4F42-B3F9-694FC652DBC5@steffann.nl>
Message-ID: <CAOS=cAUb1Q5gUeWtsaMMNgJsh7b8VG=PK9JSh6PrMtZiE_z-4g@mail.gmail.com>

Thank you for propagating the "bad news", Sander. It is interesting that
you "just noticed" this considering that certain community members have
been amplifying impending doom at AFRINIC all over social media for several
months now.

I do however look forward to all of us sincerely working together to
correct the situation. Where we observe problems, the ideal would be to try
resolving them with the parties concerned before screaming from the
rooftops.

Regards,
Dewole Ajao
AFRINIC Community/Resource Member.

On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 7:50 AM, Sander Steffann <sander at steffann.nl> wrote:

> Hello community,
>
> I just noticed that the problems in Afrinic have reached the outside world
> beyond our community: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/08/
> afrinic_sexual_harassment/
>
> It makes me really sad. It also poses a great risk to the future of the
> bottom up self regulation system we (speaking of all the RIRs) have built.
> Afrinic must get its act together and show the world that it is a
> respectable, reliable and fair organisation with broad support from its
> members.
>
> Cheers,
> Sander
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
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From badru.ntege at nftconsult.com  Wed May  9 07:19:15 2018
From: badru.ntege at nftconsult.com (Badru Ntege)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 07:19:15 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
In-Reply-To: <34B9AD2F-7601-4F42-B3F9-694FC652DBC5@steffann.nl>
References: <34B9AD2F-7601-4F42-B3F9-694FC652DBC5@steffann.nl>
Message-ID: <FA7E4342-97AC-49D1-AC2C-32253AFA9D34@nftconsult.com>

Sandar

Most member organizations will have problems and even the best individuals will have moments of weakness. AFRINIC is a technical organization with amazingly technical staff who do a very good job on a daily basis.

We acknowledge we have some layer 9 problems thus the constiting of a governance board.

Yes a number of us will point out weaknesses and generally we very rarely celebrate the good work as we take it as business as usual.

I want to ask the doom sayers that the organization is not at risk.  We point out problems to continue and sustain our growth.  It?s the whole basis of bottom up that makes us wash our dirty laundry in public.

AFRINIC is strong and will go through the current hard times and emerge a strong organization we have come too far.

The community is closer together than ever before so rest assured we will continue building our organization.

Regards.

Sent from my iPhone

On 9 May 2018, at 06:54, Sander Steffann <sander at steffann.nl<mailto:sander at steffann.nl>> wrote:

Hello community,

I just noticed that the problems in Afrinic have reached the outside world beyond our community: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/08/afrinic_sexual_harassment/

It makes me really sad. It also poses a great risk to the future of the bottom up self regulation system we (speaking of all the RIRs) have built. Afrinic must get its act together and show the world that it is a respectable, reliable and fair organisation with broad support from its members.

Cheers,
Sander

_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
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From gregoire.ehoumi at yahoo.fr  Wed May  9 08:12:37 2018
From: gregoire.ehoumi at yahoo.fr (Gregoire EHOUMI)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 08:12:37 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Board update on Governance Committee report
In-Reply-To: <CAMhquhHUw5omzb2RxWz5RmkLqwHiwUwPnuBQLhYcBXMLyzcPBw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMhquhHUw5omzb2RxWz5RmkLqwHiwUwPnuBQLhYcBXMLyzcPBw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7B738CE7-5203-484D-913E-EE017FB07D1E@yahoo.fr>

Dear Board,

Most members of community have read that attachment document, THE COMPLAIN FOR HARASSMENT IN WORK ENVIRONMENT AT AFRINIC.

How can you said that there was no evidence of HARASSMENT ?

Please share with us a contrary information, if you have.

Thanks,

Gr?goire EHOUMI

> Le 6 mai 2018 ? 19:55, Abibu Ntahigiye <abibu.ntahigiye at gmail.com> a ?crit :
> 
> Dear Afrinic Community,
> 
> The Board in March 2018, as per resolution 201803.391, tasked the Governance Committee (GC) to convene an investigation on allegations made by a staff member. The GC was requested to define the Terms of Reference (TORs) for an independent investigation, and to appoint an investigation committee.  The Board requested the findings to be reported by 30 April 2018.
> 
> The GC notified the community that they would deliver the report by 4 May 2018, and has submitted the report to the Board on 2 May 2018. The Board acknowledged receipt of the report. The Board is going to thoroughly consider the report and recommendations thereof, and will share with the community applicable actions and steps that will be taken in due course.
> 
> The Board has also been advised that in considering the report they need to be cognizant of issues of confidentiality and data protection.
> 
> With regards to allegations made against certain Board members, the Board can announce the following outcomes as derived from  the report:
>     
> That there was a violation of the Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA) and  section 153 of the Companies Act 2001, by Mr Sunday Folayan.
> 
> That there is no evidence whatsoever against Haitham El Nakhal of having breached the terms of the NDA and/or section 153 of the Companies Act 2001.
>     
> That the Investigation Committee (IC) is satisfied that there was no evidence of harassment, bullying or intimidation by Board members.
> 
> The Board will re-evaluate the interim Chair and Vice Chair appointments that were made in resolution 201803.398.
> 
> With regards to allegations made against certain members of staff, the Board observed from the IC report  that there may have been inappropriate behaviour on the part of certain staff members.
> 
> The findings and recommendations related to staff matters will be addressed through necessary processes.
> 
> We appeal to the community to allow the Board time to consider the report carefully, and provide feedback to the community no later than 31 July 2018 on the next steps and how the recommendations will be implemented.
> 
> Kind regards
> ----
> Abibu R. Ntahigiye
> Chair, Afrinic Board.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

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From funga.roho at yandex.com  Wed May  9 08:35:01 2018
From: funga.roho at yandex.com (Kangamutima zabika Christophe)
Date: Wed, 09 May 2018 09:35:01 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [pdwg] RPD post roles
In-Reply-To: <3867211525433731@web31j.yandex.ru>
References: <1984621223.111537.1525273697932.JavaMail.zimbra@forum.org.ng>
 <3867211525433731@web31j.yandex.ru>
Message-ID: <5236321525854901@web41o.yandex.ru>

Messieur les Co-Pr?sidents,

Malgr? mes innombrables plaintes, notre  du Lundi 07/05/2018, les messages que je poste dans la liste de diffusion continuent d'?tre mod?r? 
sur base d'aucune d?cision justifi?e, j'en conclus ? une volont? manifeste de nuire ? ma libert? d'expression sur cette liste de diffusion.
Je trouve ce comportement inacceptable, inadmissible et intol?rable. 

Vu que toutes les plaintes post? par courriel, n'ont aucun effet, je vous fixe rendez vous devant le micro lors du PDP afin que vous me justifiez la cause de cet acharnement contre mes propos.

Pour des raisons de transparence, afin de d'?viter tout amalgame, je mets toute la communaut? ? t?moin en publiant la pr?sente en copie sur la liste de diffusion de la communaut? et celle du conseil d'administration d'afrinic


Co-Chairs,

Despite my innumerable complaints, our interview on Monday, 07/05/2018, the messages I post in the mailing list continue to be moderated
on the basis of any justified decision, I conclude that there is a clear desire to undermine my freedom of expression on this mailing list.
I find this behavior unacceptable, inadmissible and intolerable.

Since all the complaints posted by e-mail, have no effect, I appoint you in front of the microphone at the PDP so that you justify me the cause of this deliberate relentlessness against my words.

For reasons of transparency, in order to avoid any amalgam, I put the whole community to witness by publishing this copy on the mailing list of the community and that of the board of directors of afrinic





From sami at tpra.gov.sd  Wed May  9 09:03:52 2018
From: sami at tpra.gov.sd (sami at tpra.gov.sd)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 12:03:52 +0300 (EAT)
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
In-Reply-To: <FA7E4342-97AC-49D1-AC2C-32253AFA9D34@nftconsult.com>
References: <34B9AD2F-7601-4F42-B3F9-694FC652DBC5@steffann.nl>
 <FA7E4342-97AC-49D1-AC2C-32253AFA9D34@nftconsult.com>
Message-ID: <1504896349.1553909.1525856632007.JavaMail.zimbra@tpra.gov.sd>


from day 1 the issue (not a problem) was post to a public list, so nothing new in this link and you post, beyond making the people down few hours before the PDP meeting which you claim it will be affected by such issue - I can't understand who ?! 
instead of being sad and cross posting negative news about the organization and its future, please be positive and help to mitigate the drawbacks. By the way, the community still remember bad things happen in the near future to gaming private list and how some "members" are describing the AFRINIC (and may be the Africans) community ?! 



From: "Badru Ntege" <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com> 
To: "Sander Steffann" <sander at steffann.nl> 
Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net 
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 10:19:15 AM 
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Bad news 

Sandar 

Most member organizations will have problems and even the best individuals will have moments of weakness. AFRINIC is a technical organization with amazingly technical staff who do a very good job on a daily basis. 

We acknowledge we have some layer 9 problems thus the constiting of a governance board. 

Yes a number of us will point out weaknesses and generally we very rarely celebrate the good work as we take it as business as usual. 

I want to ask the doom sayers that the organization is not at risk. We point out problems to continue and sustain our growth. It?s the whole basis of bottom up that makes us wash our dirty laundry in public. 

AFRINIC is strong and will go through the current hard times and emerge a strong organization we have come too far. 

The community is closer together than ever before so rest assured we will continue building our organization. 

Regards. 

Sent from my iPhone 

On 9 May 2018, at 06:54, Sander Steffann < [ mailto:sander at steffann.nl | sander at steffann.nl ] > wrote: 




Hello community, 

I just noticed that the problems in Afrinic have reached the outside world beyond our community: [ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/08/afrinic_sexual_harassment/ | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/08/afrinic_sexual_harassment/ ] 

It makes me really sad. It also poses a great risk to the future of the bottom up self regulation system we (speaking of all the RIRs) have built. Afrinic must get its act together and show the world that it is a respectable, reliable and fair organisation with broad support from its members. 

Cheers, 
Sander 




BQ_BEGIN

_______________________________________________ 
Community-Discuss mailing list 
[ mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net | Community-Discuss at afrinic.net ] 
[ https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss | https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ] 

BQ_END


_______________________________________________ 
Community-Discuss mailing list 
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net 
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss 

-- 
Dr. Sami Salih | Assistant Professor 
Sudan University of Science and Technology 
Eastern Dum, P.O Box 11111-407 
email: sami.salih at sustech.edu 
Mob: +249122045707 
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From madomey at hotmail.com  Wed May  9 09:15:52 2018
From: madomey at hotmail.com (Marcus K. G. Adomey)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 09:15:52 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
In-Reply-To: <34B9AD2F-7601-4F42-B3F9-694FC652DBC5@steffann.nl>
References: <34B9AD2F-7601-4F42-B3F9-694FC652DBC5@steffann.nl>
Message-ID: <AM0PR0602MB36035C79DF292180168B351EB9990@AM0PR0602MB3603.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Sander,

I am not surprise you are that you are sharing the "BAD NEWS" about the mess you and your friends from RIPE and ARIN are causing in AfriNIC in Community. This is a clear evidence that you are deploying your strategy to destroy AfriNIC. This is wicked and would come from EVIL GUYS like you and your friends. Well, any search for SATAN should stop when you are met because there is no difference between you and SATAN. You shameless people, leave us (the sheep) alone for us to fix the mess you have created in this community. Disgraced bad guys from RIPE and ARIN community.



Marcus


________________________________
From: Sander Steffann <sander at steffann.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 6:50:38 AM
To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Bad news

Hello community,

I just noticed that the problems in Afrinic have reached the outside world beyond our community: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/08/afrinic_sexual_harassment/

It makes me really sad. It also poses a great risk to the future of the bottom up self regulation system we (speaking of all the RIRs) have built. Afrinic must get its act together and show the world that it is a respectable, reliable and fair organisation with broad support from its members.

Cheers,
Sander

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From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com  Wed May  9 09:19:30 2018
From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 09:19:30 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
In-Reply-To: <AM0PR0602MB36035C79DF292180168B351EB9990@AM0PR0602MB3603.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <34B9AD2F-7601-4F42-B3F9-694FC652DBC5@steffann.nl>
 <AM0PR0602MB36035C79DF292180168B351EB9990@AM0PR0602MB3603.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <HE1PR0301MB257043455151213F2B88C738EE990@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Chairs!

Code of conduct! Again by this individual who has already been sanctioned.

Andrew


From: Marcus K. G. Adomey [mailto:madomey at hotmail.com]
Sent: 09 May 2018 12:16
To: Sander Steffann <sander at steffann.nl>; community-discuss at afrinic.net
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Bad news

Sander,

I am not surprise you are that you are sharing the "BAD NEWS" about the mess you and your friends from RIPE and ARIN are causing in AfriNIC in Community. This is a clear evidence that you are deploying your strategy to destroy AfriNIC. This is wicked and would come from EVIL GUYS like you and your friends. Well, any search for SATAN should stop when you are met because there is no difference between you and SATAN. You shameless people, leave us (the sheep) alone for us to fix the mess you have created in this community. Disgraced bad guys from RIPE and ARIN community.



Marcus

________________________________
From: Sander Steffann <sander at steffann.nl<mailto:sander at steffann.nl>>
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 6:50:38 AM
To: community-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Bad news

Hello community,

I just noticed that the problems in Afrinic have reached the outside world beyond our community: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/08/afrinic_sexual_harassment/<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/08/afrinic_sexual_harassment/>

It makes me really sad. It also poses a great risk to the future of the bottom up self regulation system we (speaking of all the RIRs) have built. Afrinic must get its act together and show the world that it is a respectable, reliable and fair organisation with broad support from its members.

Cheers,
Sander

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From sander at steffann.nl  Wed May  9 09:22:54 2018
From: sander at steffann.nl (Sander Steffann)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 11:22:54 +0200
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
In-Reply-To: <AM0PR0602MB36035C79DF292180168B351EB9990@AM0PR0602MB3603.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <34B9AD2F-7601-4F42-B3F9-694FC652DBC5@steffann.nl>
 <AM0PR0602MB36035C79DF292180168B351EB9990@AM0PR0602MB3603.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <C9A53A96-BE15-4B05-AC25-381ECFCAEA44@steffann.nl>

Hi Markus,

> I am not surprise you are that you are sharing the "BAD NEWS" about the mess you and your friends from RIPE and ARIN are causing in AfriNIC in Community. This is a clear evidence that you are deploying your strategy to destroy AfriNIC. This is wicked and would come from EVIL GUYS like you and your friends.
> Well, any search for SATAN should stop when you are met because there is no difference between you and SATAN. You shameless people, leave us (the sheep) alone for us to fix the mess you have created in this community. Disgraced bad guys from RIPE and ARIN community.

Excuse me, but these accusations and insults are completely baseless and out of order. Don't blame the messenger when I point out bad press. It was not me who caused this. I wish Afrinic was not in such a bad state. I care about the whole RIR system and community. It only makes me sad to see how badly things are going, and I am ashamed to be in the same community with people like you with such a bad attitude who just insult and accuse.

Chairs: hereby I want to formally complain against these insults and ask that you step in and take action against this blatant violation of the code of conduct.

Cheers,
Sander

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From madomey at hotmail.com  Wed May  9 09:23:24 2018
From: madomey at hotmail.com (Marcus K. G. Adomey)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 09:23:24 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR0301MB257043455151213F2B88C738EE990@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <34B9AD2F-7601-4F42-B3F9-694FC652DBC5@steffann.nl>
 <AM0PR0602MB36035C79DF292180168B351EB9990@AM0PR0602MB3603.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>,
 <HE1PR0301MB257043455151213F2B88C738EE990@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <AM0PR0602MB360350A66A413CC0747FA4BFB9990@AM0PR0602MB3603.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Andrew,

When you misbehaved in Nairobi, was the code of conduct applied?

Well you are part of those destroying this community. You have no moral right to talk about code of conduct. Shut up !!!



Marcus

Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>

________________________________
From: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 9:19:30 AM
To: Marcus K. G. Adomey; Sander Steffann; community-discuss at afrinic.net
Subject: RE: [Community-Discuss] Bad news

Chairs!

Code of conduct! Again by this individual who has already been sanctioned.

Andrew


From: Marcus K. G. Adomey [mailto:madomey at hotmail.com]
Sent: 09 May 2018 12:16
To: Sander Steffann <sander at steffann.nl>; community-discuss at afrinic.net
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Bad news

Sander,

I am not surprise you are that you are sharing the "BAD NEWS" about the mess you and your friends from RIPE and ARIN are causing in AfriNIC in Community. This is a clear evidence that you are deploying your strategy to destroy AfriNIC. This is wicked and would come from EVIL GUYS like you and your friends. Well, any search for SATAN should stop when you are met because there is no difference between you and SATAN. You shameless people, leave us (the sheep) alone for us to fix the mess you have created in this community. Disgraced bad guys from RIPE and ARIN community.



Marcus

________________________________
From: Sander Steffann <sander at steffann.nl<mailto:sander at steffann.nl>>
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 6:50:38 AM
To: community-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Bad news

Hello community,

I just noticed that the problems in Afrinic have reached the outside world beyond our community: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/08/afrinic_sexual_harassment/

It makes me really sad. It also poses a great risk to the future of the bottom up self regulation system we (speaking of all the RIRs) have built. Afrinic must get its act together and show the world that it is a respectable, reliable and fair organisation with broad support from its members.

Cheers,
Sander

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From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com  Wed May  9 09:24:29 2018
From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 09:24:29 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
In-Reply-To: <AM0PR0602MB360350A66A413CC0747FA4BFB9990@AM0PR0602MB3603.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <34B9AD2F-7601-4F42-B3F9-694FC652DBC5@steffann.nl>
 <AM0PR0602MB36035C79DF292180168B351EB9990@AM0PR0602MB3603.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>,
 <HE1PR0301MB257043455151213F2B88C738EE990@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <AM0PR0602MB360350A66A413CC0747FA4BFB9990@AM0PR0602MB3603.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <HE1PR0301MB25701FF6B134C3EBEBCD030AEE990@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Again - I call code of conduct on this post


Andrew


From: Marcus K. G. Adomey [mailto:madomey at hotmail.com]
Sent: 09 May 2018 12:23
To: Sander Steffann <sander at steffann.nl>; community-discuss at afrinic.net; Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Bad news

Andrew,
When you misbehaved in Nairobi, was the code of conduct applied?
Well you are part of those destroying this community. You have no moral right to talk about code of conduct. Shut up !!!


Marcus
Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>

________________________________
From: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 9:19:30 AM
To: Marcus K. G. Adomey; Sander Steffann; community-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
Subject: RE: [Community-Discuss] Bad news

Chairs!

Code of conduct! Again by this individual who has already been sanctioned.

Andrew


From: Marcus K. G. Adomey [mailto:madomey at hotmail.com]
Sent: 09 May 2018 12:16
To: Sander Steffann <sander at steffann.nl<mailto:sander at steffann.nl>>; community-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Bad news

Sander,

I am not surprise you are that you are sharing the "BAD NEWS" about the mess you and your friends from RIPE and ARIN are causing in AfriNIC in Community. This is a clear evidence that you are deploying your strategy to destroy AfriNIC. This is wicked and would come from EVIL GUYS like you and your friends. Well, any search for SATAN should stop when you are met because there is no difference between you and SATAN. You shameless people, leave us (the sheep) alone for us to fix the mess you have created in this community. Disgraced bad guys from RIPE and ARIN community.



Marcus

________________________________
From: Sander Steffann <sander at steffann.nl<mailto:sander at steffann.nl>>
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 6:50:38 AM
To: community-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Bad news

Hello community,

I just noticed that the problems in Afrinic have reached the outside world beyond our community: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/08/afrinic_sexual_harassment/<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/08/afrinic_sexual_harassment/>

It makes me really sad. It also poses a great risk to the future of the bottom up self regulation system we (speaking of all the RIRs) have built. Afrinic must get its act together and show the world that it is a respectable, reliable and fair organisation with broad support from its members.

Cheers,
Sander

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From madomey at hotmail.com  Wed May  9 09:29:18 2018
From: madomey at hotmail.com (Marcus K. G. Adomey)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 09:29:18 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
In-Reply-To: <C9A53A96-BE15-4B05-AC25-381ECFCAEA44@steffann.nl>
References: <34B9AD2F-7601-4F42-B3F9-694FC652DBC5@steffann.nl>
 <AM0PR0602MB36035C79DF292180168B351EB9990@AM0PR0602MB3603.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>,
 <C9A53A96-BE15-4B05-AC25-381ECFCAEA44@steffann.nl>
Message-ID: <AM0PR0602MB3603EB96714DECF98E5C66BDB9990@AM0PR0602MB3603.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Sander,


You will tell us in this community that we are fools if we cannot be convinced that you and your friends are the authors of that message. what are you talking about.




Marcus

________________________________
From: Sander Steffann <sander at steffann.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 9:22:54 AM
To: Marcus K. G. Adomey
Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Bad news

Hi Markus,

> I am not surprise you are that you are sharing the "BAD NEWS" about the mess you and your friends from RIPE and ARIN are causing in AfriNIC in Community. This is a clear evidence that you are deploying your strategy to destroy AfriNIC. This is wicked and would come from EVIL GUYS like you and your friends.
> Well, any search for SATAN should stop when you are met because there is no difference between you and SATAN. You shameless people, leave us (the sheep) alone for us to fix the mess you have created in this community. Disgraced bad guys from RIPE and ARIN community.

Excuse me, but these accusations and insults are completely baseless and out of order. Don't blame the messenger when I point out bad press. It was not me who caused this. I wish Afrinic was not in such a bad state. I care about the whole RIR system and community. It only makes me sad to see how badly things are going, and I am ashamed to be in the same community with people like you with such a bad attitude who just insult and accuse.

Chairs: hereby I want to formally complain against these insults and ask that you step in and take action against this blatant violation of the code of conduct.

Cheers,
Sander

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From ali at hussein.me.ke  Wed May  9 09:31:14 2018
From: ali at hussein.me.ke (Ali Hussein)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 11:31:14 +0200
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR0301MB25701FF6B134C3EBEBCD030AEE990@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <34B9AD2F-7601-4F42-B3F9-694FC652DBC5@steffann.nl>
 <AM0PR0602MB36035C79DF292180168B351EB9990@AM0PR0602MB3603.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB257043455151213F2B88C738EE990@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <AM0PR0602MB360350A66A413CC0747FA4BFB9990@AM0PR0602MB3603.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25701FF6B134C3EBEBCD030AEE990@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <2C6EDDE3-092E-410B-ABA9-D244A61905F4@hussein.me.ke>

Gentlemen and Ladies

Step back for a minute before you and ask yourself:-

1. How is what I?m going to say helping Afrinic?
2. Am I being civil to whoever I disagree with? I believe we are civil enough to disagree without hurling insults and abuses at each other?

Ali Hussein
Principal
Hussein & Associates
+254 0713 601113 

Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit."  ~ Aristotle


Sent from my iPad

> On 9 May 2018, at 11:24 AM, Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com> wrote:
> 
> Again ? I call code of conduct on this post
>  
>  
> Andrew
>  
>  
> From: Marcus K. G. Adomey [mailto:madomey at hotmail.com] 
> Sent: 09 May 2018 12:23
> To: Sander Steffann <sander at steffann.nl>; community-discuss at afrinic.net; Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
>  
> Andrew,
> 
> When you misbehaved in Nairobi, was the code of conduct applied?
> 
> Well you are part of those destroying this community. You have no moral right to talk about code of conduct. Shut up !!!
> 
> 
> 
> Marcus
> 
> Get Outlook for Android
>  
> From: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 9:19:30 AM
> To: Marcus K. G. Adomey; Sander Steffann; community-discuss at afrinic.net
> Subject: RE: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
>  
> Chairs!
>  
> Code of conduct! Again by this individual who has already been sanctioned.
>  
> Andrew
>  
>  
> From: Marcus K. G. Adomey [mailto:madomey at hotmail.com] 
> Sent: 09 May 2018 12:16
> To: Sander Steffann <sander at steffann.nl>; community-discuss at afrinic.net
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
>  
> Sander,
>  
> I am not surprise you are that you are sharing the "BAD NEWS" about the mess you and your friends from RIPE and ARIN are causing in AfriNIC in Community. This is a clear evidence that you are deploying your strategy to destroy AfriNIC. This is wicked and would come from EVIL GUYS like you and your friends. Well, any search for SATAN should stop when you are met because there is no difference between you and SATAN. You shameless people, leave us (the sheep) alone for us to fix the mess you have created in this community. Disgraced bad guys from RIPE and ARIN community.
>  
>  
>  
> Marcus
>  
> From: Sander Steffann <sander at steffann.nl>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 6:50:38 AM
> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
> Subject: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
>  
> Hello community,
>  
> I just noticed that the problems in Afrinic have reached the outside world beyond our community: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/08/afrinic_sexual_harassment/
>  
> It makes me really sad. It also poses a great risk to the future of the bottom up self regulation system we (speaking of all the RIRs) have built. Afrinic must get its act together and show the world that it is a respectable, reliable and fair organisation with broad support from its members.
>  
> Cheers,
> Sander
>  
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
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From sander at steffann.nl  Wed May  9 09:32:28 2018
From: sander at steffann.nl (Sander Steffann)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 11:32:28 +0200
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
In-Reply-To: <AM0PR0602MB3603EB96714DECF98E5C66BDB9990@AM0PR0602MB3603.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <34B9AD2F-7601-4F42-B3F9-694FC652DBC5@steffann.nl>
 <AM0PR0602MB36035C79DF292180168B351EB9990@AM0PR0602MB3603.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <C9A53A96-BE15-4B05-AC25-381ECFCAEA44@steffann.nl>
 <AM0PR0602MB3603EB96714DECF98E5C66BDB9990@AM0PR0602MB3603.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <6F769389-5083-4DA6-A6F6-6969C9B3F41B@steffann.nl>

Hi,

> You will tell us in this community that we are fools if we cannot be convinced that you and your friends are the authors of that message. what are you talking about.

I (or any of my friends as far as I am aware) had nothing to do with the publication of that message. As far as I can see everything in that article is based on the contents of this (public) mailing list. I don't think there is anybody to blame except the people who made the mess happen in the first place...

Cheers,
Sander

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From sander at steffann.nl  Wed May  9 09:43:30 2018
From: sander at steffann.nl (Sander Steffann)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 11:43:30 +0200
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
In-Reply-To: <2C6EDDE3-092E-410B-ABA9-D244A61905F4@hussein.me.ke>
References: <34B9AD2F-7601-4F42-B3F9-694FC652DBC5@steffann.nl>
 <AM0PR0602MB36035C79DF292180168B351EB9990@AM0PR0602MB3603.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB257043455151213F2B88C738EE990@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <AM0PR0602MB360350A66A413CC0747FA4BFB9990@AM0PR0602MB3603.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25701FF6B134C3EBEBCD030AEE990@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <2C6EDDE3-092E-410B-ABA9-D244A61905F4@hussein.me.ke>
Message-ID: <1588B2FB-2E9A-435C-81B8-F23DD835E233@steffann.nl>

Hi,

> Step back for a minute before you and ask yourself:-
> 
> 1. How is what I?m going to say helping Afrinic?
> 2. Am I being civil to whoever I disagree with? I believe we are civil enough to disagree without hurling insults and abuses at each other?

Thank you, wise words. To those who did not wish to see it I apologise for pointing out the article in The Register. Afrinic indeed needs civil behaviour and proper communication at this time.

Sander

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From alan.barrett at afrinic.net  Wed May  9 10:39:25 2018
From: alan.barrett at afrinic.net (Alan Barrett)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 10:39:25 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
In-Reply-To: <AM0PR0602MB36035C79DF292180168B351EB9990@AM0PR0602MB3603.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <34B9AD2F-7601-4F42-B3F9-694FC652DBC5@steffann.nl>
 <AM0PR0602MB36035C79DF292180168B351EB9990@AM0PR0602MB3603.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <5E473C46-867B-4516-81F9-F0D4B4B8BFF8@afrinic.net>

Dear Marcus, Dear Sander,

In my opinion, the message from Marcus is a personal attack which is against the code of conduct.  However, I understand that Marcus felt provoked by Sander?s message, which I think was unnecessary.  (Both messages are copied below.)

I ask you both to be more careful of what you post.

Alan Barrett
CEO, AFRINIC


> On 9 May 2018, at 09:15, Marcus K. G. Adomey <madomey at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Sander,
> 
> I am not surprise you are that you are sharing the "BAD NEWS" about the mess you and your friends from RIPE and ARIN are causing in AfriNIC in Community. This is a clear evidence that you are deploying your strategy to destroy AfriNIC. This is wicked and would come from EVIL GUYS like you and your friends. Well, any search for SATAN should stop when you are met because there is no difference between you and SATAN. You shameless people, leave us (the sheep) alone for us to fix the mess you have created in this community. Disgraced bad guys from RIPE and ARIN community.
> 
> 
> 
> Marcus
> 
> From: Sander Steffann <sander at steffann.nl>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 6:50:38 AM
> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
> Subject: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
>  
> Hello community,
> 
> I just noticed that the problems in Afrinic have reached the outside world beyond our community: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/08/afrinic_sexual_harassment/
> 
> It makes me really sad. It also poses a great risk to the future of the bottom up self regulation system we (speaking of all the RIRs) have built. Afrinic must get its act together and show the world that it is a respectable, reliable and fair organisation with broad support from its members.
> 
> Cheers,
> Sander
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss




From boubakarbarry at gmail.com  Wed May  9 09:58:14 2018
From: boubakarbarry at gmail.com (Boubakar Barry)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 09:58:14 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
In-Reply-To: <6F769389-5083-4DA6-A6F6-6969C9B3F41B@steffann.nl>
References: <34B9AD2F-7601-4F42-B3F9-694FC652DBC5@steffann.nl>
 <AM0PR0602MB36035C79DF292180168B351EB9990@AM0PR0602MB3603.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <C9A53A96-BE15-4B05-AC25-381ECFCAEA44@steffann.nl>
 <AM0PR0602MB3603EB96714DECF98E5C66BDB9990@AM0PR0602MB3603.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <6F769389-5083-4DA6-A6F6-6969C9B3F41B@steffann.nl>
Message-ID: <CAGrBSShofWg8uVRTuUkAe2T9HiDOefVeXQpUxMSG2CbQEzQXJg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 9:32 AM, Sander Steffann <sander at steffann.nl> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> > You will tell us in this community that we are fools if we cannot be
> convinced that you and your friends are the authors of that message. what
> are you talking about.
>
> I (or any of my friends as far as I am aware) had nothing to do with the
> publication of that message. As far as I can see everything in that article
> is based on the contents of this (public) mailing list. I don't think there
> is anybody to blame except the people who made the mess happen in the first
> place...
>

I agree that the people who "made the mess happen" are to blame. But also
those who are amplifying the situation (that is serious enough) by
spreading the "bad news". It doesn't help the organization in any way.

This community is strong enough to address the issue and get things that
went wrong fixed.

Boubakar


>
> Cheers,
> Sander
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
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From dewole at forum.org.ng  Wed May  9 11:12:33 2018
From: dewole at forum.org.ng (Dewole Ajao)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 11:12:33 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [pdwg] RPD post roles
In-Reply-To: <5236321525854901@web41o.yandex.ru>
References: <1984621223.111537.1525273697932.JavaMail.zimbra@forum.org.ng>
 <3867211525433731@web31j.yandex.ru> <5236321525854901@web41o.yandex.ru>
Message-ID: <411328732.135659.1525864353589.JavaMail.zimbra@forum.org.ng>

Thanks for your email, Kangamutima. 

As I assured you during our discussion which I assumed was very cordial on Monday, your posts were to have been unmoderated and moderation removed from your email address in line with the expired time (which I admit you had to remind us of). There was a technical glitch at that point which prevented us from having access to approve your posts and the co-chair was only able to allow your post. 

I can assure you that it is not our desire to spend the precious time we volunteer reading through each of your emails before allowing. The system administrators have been asked to manually remove the moderation of your account and we sincerely hope to see more of your civil and tolerant contributions on the rpd list. 

We apologize for all inconveniences caused by this delayed action.

Regards,
Dewole.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kangamutima zabika Christophe" <funga.roho at yandex.com>
To: "dewole" <dewole at forum.org.ng>, "Policy Development Working Group" <pdwg at afrinic.net>, "General Discussions of AFRINIC" <community-discuss at afrinic.net>, "sami" <sami at tpra.gov.sd>, "bod members" <bod_members at afrinic.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 9:35:01 AM
Subject: Re: [pdwg] RPD post roles

Messieur les Co-Pr?sidents,

Malgr? mes innombrables plaintes, notre  du Lundi 07/05/2018, les messages que je poste dans la liste de diffusion continuent d'?tre mod?r? 
sur base d'aucune d?cision justifi?e, j'en conclus ? une volont? manifeste de nuire ? ma libert? d'expression sur cette liste de diffusion.
Je trouve ce comportement inacceptable, inadmissible et intol?rable. 

Vu que toutes les plaintes post? par courriel, n'ont aucun effet, je vous fixe rendez vous devant le micro lors du PDP afin que vous me justifiez la cause de cet acharnement contre mes propos.

Pour des raisons de transparence, afin de d'?viter tout amalgame, je mets toute la communaut? ? t?moin en publiant la pr?sente en copie sur la liste de diffusion de la communaut? et celle du conseil d'administration d'afrinic


Co-Chairs,

Despite my innumerable complaints, our interview on Monday, 07/05/2018, the messages I post in the mailing list continue to be moderated
on the basis of any justified decision, I conclude that there is a clear desire to undermine my freedom of expression on this mailing list.
I find this behavior unacceptable, inadmissible and intolerable.

Since all the complaints posted by e-mail, have no effect, I appoint you in front of the microphone at the PDP so that you justify me the cause of this deliberate relentlessness against my words.

For reasons of transparency, in order to avoid any amalgam, I put the whole community to witness by publishing this copy on the mailing list of the community and that of the board of directors of afrinic



From sami at tpra.gov.sd  Wed May  9 11:07:21 2018
From: sami at tpra.gov.sd (sami at tpra.gov.sd)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 14:07:21 +0300 (EAT)
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
In-Reply-To: <CAGrBSShofWg8uVRTuUkAe2T9HiDOefVeXQpUxMSG2CbQEzQXJg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <34B9AD2F-7601-4F42-B3F9-694FC652DBC5@steffann.nl>
 <AM0PR0602MB36035C79DF292180168B351EB9990@AM0PR0602MB3603.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <C9A53A96-BE15-4B05-AC25-381ECFCAEA44@steffann.nl>
 <AM0PR0602MB3603EB96714DECF98E5C66BDB9990@AM0PR0602MB3603.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <6F769389-5083-4DA6-A6F6-6969C9B3F41B@steffann.nl>
 <CAGrBSShofWg8uVRTuUkAe2T9HiDOefVeXQpUxMSG2CbQEzQXJg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <904751397.1557331.1525864041716.JavaMail.zimbra@tpra.gov.sd>

very will said Dr. Barry, 

I just want our people don't be drawn to inappropriate talk through provocative posts. 



From: "Boubakar Barry" <boubakarbarry at gmail.com> 
To: "Sander Steffann" <sander at steffann.nl> 
Cc: "community-discuss" <community-discuss at afrinic.net> 
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 12:58:14 PM 
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Bad news 


On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 9:32 AM, Sander Steffann < [ mailto:sander at steffann.nl | sander at steffann.nl ] > wrote: 


Hi, 

> You will tell us in this community that we are fools if we cannot be convinced that you and your friends are the authors of that message. what are you talking about. 

I (or any of my friends as far as I am aware) had nothing to do with the publication of that message. As far as I can see everything in that article is based on the contents of this (public) mailing list. I don't think there is anybody to blame except the people who made the mess happen in the first place... 



I agree that the people who "made the mess happen" are to blame. But also those who are amplifying the situation (that is serious enough) by spreading the "bad news". It doesn't help the organization in any way. 

This community is strong enough to address the issue and get things that went wrong fixed. 

Boubakar 


BQ_BEGIN

Cheers, 
Sander 


_______________________________________________ 
Community-Discuss mailing list 
[ mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net | Community-Discuss at afrinic.net ] 
[ https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss | https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ] 


BQ_END



_______________________________________________ 
Community-Discuss mailing list 
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net 
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss 

-- 
Dr. Sami Salih | Assistant Professor 
Sudan University of Science and Technology 
Eastern Dum, P.O Box 11111-407 
email: sami.salih at sustech.edu 
Mob: +249122045707 
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From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com  Wed May  9 11:42:47 2018
From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 11:42:47 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
In-Reply-To: <5E473C46-867B-4516-81F9-F0D4B4B8BFF8@afrinic.net>
References: <34B9AD2F-7601-4F42-B3F9-694FC652DBC5@steffann.nl>
 <AM0PR0602MB36035C79DF292180168B351EB9990@AM0PR0602MB3603.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <5E473C46-867B-4516-81F9-F0D4B4B8BFF8@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <HE1PR0301MB25701A5D4813BC18B610061AEE990@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>

I?m sorry Alan,

But I am nothing short of appalled that you can equate the sharing of what is VALID concern to this community and the RIR system ? a situation that was created by AFRINIC ? because no one else created it ? with openly calling a member SATAN is just ? absolutely mind blowing.

Your message seems to imply that sharing legitimate concern and telling AFRINIC (referring to not just the corporate entity but the entire body, including this community) to get its act into gear is provocation that some how justifies calling someone SATAN

This is shocking

Andrew


From: Alan Barrett [mailto:alan.barrett at afrinic.net]
Sent: 09 May 2018 13:39
To: Marcus K. G. Adomey <madomey at hotmail.com>
Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Bad news

Dear Marcus, Dear Sander,

In my opinion, the message from Marcus is a personal attack which is against the code of conduct. However, I understand that Marcus felt provoked by Sander?s message, which I think was unnecessary. (Both messages are copied below.)

I ask you both to be more careful of what you post.

Alan Barrett
CEO, AFRINIC


> On 9 May 2018, at 09:15, Marcus K. G. Adomey <madomey at hotmail.com<mailto:madomey at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Sander,
>
> I am not surprise you are that you are sharing the "BAD NEWS" about the mess you and your friends from RIPE and ARIN are causing in AfriNIC in Community. This is a clear evidence that you are deploying your strategy to destroy AfriNIC. This is wicked and would come from EVIL GUYS like you and your friends. Well, any search for SATAN should stop when you are met because there is no difference between you and SATAN. You shameless people, leave us (the sheep) alone for us to fix the mess you have created in this community. Disgraced bad guys from RIPE and ARIN community.
>
>
>
> Marcus
>
> From: Sander Steffann <sander at steffann.nl<mailto:sander at steffann.nl>>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 6:50:38 AM
> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> Subject: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
>
> Hello community,
>
> I just noticed that the problems in Afrinic have reached the outside world beyond our community: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/08/afrinic_sexual_harassment/<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/08/afrinic_sexual_harassment/>
>
> It makes me really sad. It also poses a great risk to the future of the bottom up self regulation system we (speaking of all the RIRs) have built. Afrinic must get its act together and show the world that it is a respectable, reliable and fair organisation with broad support from its members.
>
> Cheers,
> Sander
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>


_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
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From sami at tpra.gov.sd  Wed May  9 11:56:02 2018
From: sami at tpra.gov.sd (Sami Salih)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 14:56:02 +0300 (EAT)
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR0301MB25701A5D4813BC18B610061AEE990@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <34B9AD2F-7601-4F42-B3F9-694FC652DBC5@steffann.nl>
 <AM0PR0602MB36035C79DF292180168B351EB9990@AM0PR0602MB3603.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <5E473C46-867B-4516-81F9-F0D4B4B8BFF8@afrinic.net>
 <HE1PR0301MB25701A5D4813BC18B610061AEE990@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <1685010038.1558292.1525866962543.JavaMail.zimbra@tpra.gov.sd>

Take it easy Mr. Alston 
In some African culture, satan is used as an adjective to describe some behavior, in is some cases it even has positive meaning, but you need to be real African to got the meaning. 
please try to respect the diversity of the Africans, and don't always refer the the meanings used outside out continent. 


From: "Andrew Alston" <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com> 
To: "Alan Barrett" <alan.barrett at afrinic.net>, "Marcus K. G. Adomey" <madomey at hotmail.com> 
Cc: "community-discuss" <community-discuss at afrinic.net> 
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 2:42:47 PM 
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Bad news 



I?m sorry Alan, 



But I am nothing short of appalled that you can equate the sharing of what is VALID concern to this community and the RIR system ? a situation that was created by AFRINIC ? because no one else created it ? with openly calling a member SATAN is just ? absolutely mind blowing. 



Your message seems to imply that sharing legitimate concern and telling AFRINIC (referring to not just the corporate entity but the entire body, including this community) to get its act into gear is provocation that some how justifies calling someone SATAN 



This is shocking 



Andrew 






From: Alan Barrett [mailto:alan.barrett at afrinic.net] 
Sent: 09 May 2018 13:39 
To: Marcus K. G. Adomey <madomey at hotmail.com> 
Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net 
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Bad news 




Dear Marcus, Dear Sander, 

In my opinion, the message from Marcus is a personal attack which is against the code of conduct. However, I understand that Marcus felt provoked by Sander?s message, which I think was unnecessary. (Both messages are copied below.) 

I ask you both to be more careful of what you post. 

Alan Barrett 
CEO, AFRINIC 


> On 9 May 2018, at 09:15, Marcus K. G. Adomey < [ mailto:madomey at hotmail.com | madomey at hotmail.com ] > wrote: 
> 
> Sander, 
> 
> I am not surprise you are that you are sharing the "BAD NEWS" about the mess you and your friends from RIPE and ARIN are causing in AfriNIC in Community. This is a clear evidence that you are deploying your strategy to destroy AfriNIC. This is wicked and would come from EVIL GUYS like you and your friends. Well, any search for SATAN should stop when you are met because there is no difference between you and SATAN. You shameless people, leave us (the sheep) alone for us to fix the mess you have created in this community. Disgraced bad guys from RIPE and ARIN community. 
> 
> 
> 
> Marcus 
> 
> From: Sander Steffann < [ mailto:sander at steffann.nl | sander at steffann.nl ] > 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 6:50:38 AM 
> To: [ mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net | community-discuss at afrinic.net ] 
> Subject: [Community-Discuss] Bad news 
> 
> Hello community, 
> 
> I just noticed that the problems in Afrinic have reached the outside world beyond our community: [ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/08/afrinic_sexual_harassment/ | 
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/08/afrinic_sexual_harassment/ ] 
> 
> It makes me really sad. It also poses a great risk to the future of the bottom up self regulation system we (speaking of all the RIRs) have built. Afrinic must get its act together and show the world that it is a respectable, reliable and fair organisation with broad support from its members. 
> 
> Cheers, 
> Sander 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Community-Discuss mailing list 
> [ mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net | Community-Discuss at afrinic.net ] 
> [ https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss | 
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ] 


_______________________________________________ 
Community-Discuss mailing list 
[ mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net | Community-Discuss at afrinic.net ] 
[ https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss | https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ] 

_______________________________________________ 
Community-Discuss mailing list 
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net 
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss 

-- 
Dr. Sami Salih | Assistant Professor 
Sudan University of Science and Technology 
Eastern Dum, P.O Box 11111-407 
email: sami.salih at sustech.edu 
Mob: +249122045707 
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From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com  Wed May  9 12:03:42 2018
From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 12:03:42 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
In-Reply-To: <1685010038.1558292.1525866962543.JavaMail.zimbra@tpra.gov.sd>
References: <34B9AD2F-7601-4F42-B3F9-694FC652DBC5@steffann.nl>
 <AM0PR0602MB36035C79DF292180168B351EB9990@AM0PR0602MB3603.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <5E473C46-867B-4516-81F9-F0D4B4B8BFF8@afrinic.net>
 <HE1PR0301MB25701A5D4813BC18B610061AEE990@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <1685010038.1558292.1525866962543.JavaMail.zimbra@tpra.gov.sd>
Message-ID: <HE1PR0301MB2570FF0B3A8BA5D11896CBE9EE990@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Sami,

Are you now implying that I am some how less African than you? Despite being raised in Africa, lived in Africa all my life and under African skies will I die?

Your message implies that I am somehow not ?A real African? ? please can you clarify this?

Andrew


From: Sami Salih [mailto:sami at tpra.gov.sd]
Sent: 09 May 2018 14:56
To: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
Cc: Alan Barrett <alan.barrett at afrinic.net>; Marcus K. G. Adomey <madomey at hotmail.com>; community-discuss <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Bad news

Take it easy Mr. Alston
In some African culture, satan is used as an adjective to describe some behavior, in is some cases it even has positive meaning, but you need to be real African to got the meaning.
please try to respect the diversity of the Africans, and don't always refer the the meanings used outside out continent.

________________________________
From: "Andrew Alston" <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>>
To: "Alan Barrett" <alan.barrett at afrinic.net<mailto:alan.barrett at afrinic.net>>, "Marcus K. G. Adomey" <madomey at hotmail.com<mailto:madomey at hotmail.com>>
Cc: "community-discuss" <community-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 2:42:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Bad news

I?m sorry Alan,

But I am nothing short of appalled that you can equate the sharing of what is VALID concern to this community and the RIR system ? a situation that was created by AFRINIC ? because no one else created it ? with openly calling a member SATAN is just ? absolutely mind blowing.

Your message seems to imply that sharing legitimate concern and telling AFRINIC (referring to not just the corporate entity but the entire body, including this community) to get its act into gear is provocation that some how justifies calling someone SATAN

This is shocking

Andrew


From: Alan Barrett [mailto:alan.barrett at afrinic.net]
Sent: 09 May 2018 13:39
To: Marcus K. G. Adomey <madomey at hotmail.com<mailto:madomey at hotmail.com>>
Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Bad news

Dear Marcus, Dear Sander,

In my opinion, the message from Marcus is a personal attack which is against the code of conduct. However, I understand that Marcus felt provoked by Sander?s message, which I think was unnecessary. (Both messages are copied below.)

I ask you both to be more careful of what you post.

Alan Barrett
CEO, AFRINIC


> On 9 May 2018, at 09:15, Marcus K. G. Adomey <madomey at hotmail.com<mailto:madomey at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Sander,
>
> I am not surprise you are that you are sharing the "BAD NEWS" about the mess you and your friends from RIPE and ARIN are causing in AfriNIC in Community. This is a clear evidence that you are deploying your strategy to destroy AfriNIC. This is wicked and would come from EVIL GUYS like you and your friends. Well, any search for SATAN should stop when you are met because there is no difference between you and SATAN. You shameless people, leave us (the sheep) alone for us to fix the mess you have created in this community. Disgraced bad guys from RIPE and ARIN community.
>
>
>
> Marcus
>
> From: Sander Steffann <sander at steffann.nl<mailto:sander at steffann.nl>>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 6:50:38 AM
> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> Subject: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
>
> Hello community,
>
> I just noticed that the problems in Afrinic have reached the outside world beyond our community: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/08/afrinic_sexual_harassment/<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/08/afrinic_sexual_harassment/>
>
> It makes me really sad. It also poses a great risk to the future of the bottom up self regulation system we (speaking of all the RIRs) have built. Afrinic must get its act together and show the world that it is a respectable, reliable and fair organisation with broad support from its members.
>
> Cheers,
> Sander
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>


_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>

_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>

--
Dr. Sami Salih  | Assistant Professor
Sudan University of Science and Technology
Eastern Dum, P.O Box 11111-407
email: sami.salih at sustech.edu<mailto:sami.salih at sustech.edu>
Mob: +249122045707
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From alan.barrett at afrinic.net  Wed May  9 12:04:17 2018
From: alan.barrett at afrinic.net (Alan Barrett)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 12:04:17 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR0301MB25701A5D4813BC18B610061AEE990@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <34B9AD2F-7601-4F42-B3F9-694FC652DBC5@steffann.nl>
 <AM0PR0602MB36035C79DF292180168B351EB9990@AM0PR0602MB3603.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <5E473C46-867B-4516-81F9-F0D4B4B8BFF8@afrinic.net>
 <HE1PR0301MB25701A5D4813BC18B610061AEE990@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <7CD7C4AE-D3F7-4ECB-852B-E5B17242B516@afrinic.net>



> On 9 May 2018, at 11:42, Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com> wrote:
> 
> I?m sorry Alan,
>  
> But I am nothing short of appalled that you can equate the sharing of what is VALID concern to this community and the RIR system ? a situation that was created by AFRINIC ? because no one else created it ? with openly calling a member SATAN is just ? absolutely mind blowing.
>  
> Your message seems to imply that sharing legitimate concern and telling AFRINIC (referring to not just the corporate entity but the entire body, including this community) to get its act into gear is provocation that some how justifies calling someone SATAN

On re-reading my message, I understand why it was seen as unfair.  I apologise for that.

I do not believe that the first message (sharing a link) justified the second (a personal attack).

Alan Barrett




From sander at steffann.nl  Wed May  9 12:12:36 2018
From: sander at steffann.nl (Sander Steffann)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 14:12:36 +0200
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
In-Reply-To: <7CD7C4AE-D3F7-4ECB-852B-E5B17242B516@afrinic.net>
References: <34B9AD2F-7601-4F42-B3F9-694FC652DBC5@steffann.nl>
 <AM0PR0602MB36035C79DF292180168B351EB9990@AM0PR0602MB3603.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <5E473C46-867B-4516-81F9-F0D4B4B8BFF8@afrinic.net>
 <HE1PR0301MB25701A5D4813BC18B610061AEE990@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <7CD7C4AE-D3F7-4ECB-852B-E5B17242B516@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <01C91F6D-E5BB-40D6-ABD1-FBBE65FA9449@steffann.nl>

Hi Alan,

> On re-reading my message, I understand why it was seen as unfair.  I apologise for that.
> 
> I do not believe that the first message (sharing a link) justified the second (a personal attack).

Thank you. Sorry to be causing more stress in these difficult times.

Cheers,
Sander

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From sami at tpra.gov.sd  Wed May  9 12:09:07 2018
From: sami at tpra.gov.sd (Sami Salih)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 15:09:07 +0300 (EAT)
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR0301MB2570FF0B3A8BA5D11896CBE9EE990@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <34B9AD2F-7601-4F42-B3F9-694FC652DBC5@steffann.nl>
 <AM0PR0602MB36035C79DF292180168B351EB9990@AM0PR0602MB3603.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <5E473C46-867B-4516-81F9-F0D4B4B8BFF8@afrinic.net>
 <HE1PR0301MB25701A5D4813BC18B610061AEE990@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <1685010038.1558292.1525866962543.JavaMail.zimbra@tpra.gov.sd>
 <HE1PR0301MB2570FF0B3A8BA5D11896CBE9EE990@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <1813197947.1558498.1525867747423.JavaMail.zimbra@tpra.gov.sd>

Andrew, 
Just reply because you ask, no one is pure we all have diversity and we happy to have that, you need to more self-reconciliation. 
Even my self im happy to have half African half Arab. 
again, take it easy. 


From: "Andrew Alston" <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com> 
To: "Sami Salih" <sami at tpra.gov.sd> 
Cc: "Alan Barrett" <alan.barrett at afrinic.net>, "Marcus K. G. Adomey" <madomey at hotmail.com>, "community-discuss" <community-discuss at afrinic.net> 
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 3:03:42 PM 
Subject: RE: [Community-Discuss] Bad news 



Sami, 



Are you now implying that I am some how less African than you? Despite being raised in Africa, lived in Africa all my life and under African skies will I die? 



Your message implies that I am somehow not ?A real African? ? please can you clarify this? 



Andrew 






From: Sami Salih [mailto:sami at tpra.gov.sd] 
Sent: 09 May 2018 14:56 
To: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com> 
Cc: Alan Barrett <alan.barrett at afrinic.net>; Marcus K. G. Adomey <madomey at hotmail.com>; community-discuss <community-discuss at afrinic.net> 
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Bad news 





Take it easy Mr. Alston 


In some African culture, satan is used as an adjective to describe some behavior, in is some cases it even has positive meaning, but you need to be real African to got the meaning. 
please try to respect the diversity of the Africans, and don't always refer the the meanings used outside out continent. 






From: "Andrew Alston" < [ mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com | Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com ] > 
To: "Alan Barrett" < [ mailto:alan.barrett at afrinic.net | alan.barrett at afrinic.net ] >, "Marcus K. G. Adomey" < [ mailto:madomey at hotmail.com | madomey at hotmail.com ] > 
Cc: "community-discuss" < [ mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net | community-discuss at afrinic.net ] > 
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 2:42:47 PM 
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Bad news 





I?m sorry Alan, 



But I am nothing short of appalled that you can equate the sharing of what is VALID concern to this community and the RIR system ? a situation that was created by AFRINIC ? because no one else created it ? with openly calling a member SATAN is just ? absolutely mind blowing. 



Your message seems to imply that sharing legitimate concern and telling AFRINIC (referring to not just the corporate entity but the entire body, including this community) to get its act into gear is provocation that some how justifies calling someone SATAN 



This is shocking 



Andrew 






From: Alan Barrett [ [ mailto:alan.barrett at afrinic.net | mailto:alan.barrett at afrinic.net ] ] 
Sent: 09 May 2018 13:39 
To: Marcus K. G. Adomey < [ mailto:madomey at hotmail.com | madomey at hotmail.com ] > 
Cc: [ mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net | community-discuss at afrinic.net ] 
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Bad news 




Dear Marcus, Dear Sander, 

In my opinion, the message from Marcus is a personal attack which is against the code of conduct. However, I understand that Marcus felt provoked by Sander?s message, which I think was unnecessary. (Both messages are copied below.) 

I ask you both to be more careful of what you post. 

Alan Barrett 
CEO, AFRINIC 


> On 9 May 2018, at 09:15, Marcus K. G. Adomey < [ mailto:madomey at hotmail.com | madomey at hotmail.com ] > wrote: 
> 
> Sander, 
> 
> I am not surprise you are that you are sharing the "BAD NEWS" about the mess you and your friends from RIPE and ARIN are causing in AfriNIC in Community. This is a clear evidence that you are deploying your strategy to destroy AfriNIC. This is wicked and would come from EVIL GUYS like you and your friends. Well, any search for SATAN should stop when you are met because there is no difference between you and SATAN. You shameless people, leave us (the sheep) alone for us to fix the mess you have created in this community. Disgraced bad guys from RIPE and ARIN community. 
> 
> 
> 
> Marcus 
> 
> From: Sander Steffann < [ mailto:sander at steffann.nl | sander at steffann.nl ] > 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 6:50:38 AM 
> To: [ mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net | community-discuss at afrinic.net ] 
> Subject: [Community-Discuss] Bad news 
> 
> Hello community, 
> 
> I just noticed that the problems in Afrinic have reached the outside world beyond our community: [ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/08/afrinic_sexual_harassment/ | 
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/08/afrinic_sexual_harassment/ ] 
> 
> It makes me really sad. It also poses a great risk to the future of the bottom up self regulation system we (speaking of all the RIRs) have built. Afrinic must get its act together and show the world that it is a respectable, reliable and fair organisation with broad support from its members. 
> 
> Cheers, 
> Sander 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
> Community-Discuss mailing list 
> [ mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net | Community-Discuss at afrinic.net ] 
> [ https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss | 
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ] 


_______________________________________________ 
Community-Discuss mailing list 
[ mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net | Community-Discuss at afrinic.net ] 
[ https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss | https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ] 



_______________________________________________ 
Community-Discuss mailing list 
[ mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net | Community-Discuss at afrinic.net ] 
[ https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss | https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ] 





-- 


Dr. Sami Salih | Assistant Professor 
Sudan University of Science and Technology 
Eastern Dum, P.O Box 11111-407 
email: [ mailto:sami.salih at sustech.edu | sami.salih at sustech.edu ] 
Mob: +249122045707 


-- 
Dr. Sami Salih | Assistant Professor 
Sudan University of Science and Technology 
Eastern Dum, P.O Box 11111-407 
email: sami.salih at sustech.edu 
Mob: +249122045707 
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From Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net  Wed May  9 12:21:53 2018
From: Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net (Omo Oaiya)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 05:21:53 -0700
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
In-Reply-To: <1813197947.1558498.1525867747423.JavaMail.zimbra@tpra.gov.sd>
References: <34B9AD2F-7601-4F42-B3F9-694FC652DBC5@steffann.nl>
 <AM0PR0602MB36035C79DF292180168B351EB9990@AM0PR0602MB3603.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <5E473C46-867B-4516-81F9-F0D4B4B8BFF8@afrinic.net>
 <HE1PR0301MB25701A5D4813BC18B610061AEE990@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <1685010038.1558292.1525866962543.JavaMail.zimbra@tpra.gov.sd>
 <HE1PR0301MB2570FF0B3A8BA5D11896CBE9EE990@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <1813197947.1558498.1525867747423.JavaMail.zimbra@tpra.gov.sd>
Message-ID: <0FA8F491-B248-4244-932A-FD6927DA8E9F@wacren.net>

It seems the Registrar wants to be African too.  Steffan has apologised for his faux-pas so this can die.    Lesson to be learned by others who would rather tear down than build.

-Omo
 
> On 9 May 2018, at 05:09, Sami Salih <sami at tpra.gov.sd> wrote:
> 
> Andrew,
> Just reply because you ask, no one is pure we all have diversity and we happy to have that, you need to more self-reconciliation.
> Even my self im happy to have half African half Arab.
> again, take it easy.
> 
> From: "Andrew Alston" <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com <mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>>
> To: "Sami Salih" <sami at tpra.gov.sd <mailto:sami at tpra.gov.sd>>
> Cc: "Alan Barrett" <alan.barrett at afrinic.net <mailto:alan.barrett at afrinic.net>>, "Marcus K. G. Adomey" <madomey at hotmail.com <mailto:madomey at hotmail.com>>, "community-discuss" <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 3:03:42 PM
> Subject: RE: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
> 
> Sami,
>  
> Are you now implying that I am some how less African than you? Despite being raised in Africa, lived in Africa all my life and under African skies will I die?
>  
> Your message implies that I am somehow not ?A real African? ? please can you clarify this?
>  
> Andrew
>  
>  
> From: Sami Salih [mailto:sami at tpra.gov.sd <mailto:sami at tpra.gov.sd>] 
> Sent: 09 May 2018 14:56
> To: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com <mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>>
> Cc: Alan Barrett <alan.barrett at afrinic.net <mailto:alan.barrett at afrinic.net>>; Marcus K. G. Adomey <madomey at hotmail.com <mailto:madomey at hotmail.com>>; community-discuss <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
>  
> Take it easy Mr. Alston
> In some African culture, satan is used as an adjective to describe some behavior, in is some cases it even has positive meaning, but you need to be real African to got the meaning.
> please try to respect the diversity of the Africans, and don't always refer the the meanings used outside out continent.
>  
> From: "Andrew Alston" <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com <mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>>
> To: "Alan Barrett" <alan.barrett at afrinic.net <mailto:alan.barrett at afrinic.net>>, "Marcus K. G. Adomey" <madomey at hotmail.com <mailto:madomey at hotmail.com>>
> Cc: "community-discuss" <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 2:42:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
>  
> I?m sorry Alan,
>  
> But I am nothing short of appalled that you can equate the sharing of what is VALID concern to this community and the RIR system ? a situation that was created by AFRINIC ? because no one else created it ? with openly calling a member SATAN is just ? absolutely mind blowing.
>  
> Your message seems to imply that sharing legitimate concern and telling AFRINIC (referring to not just the corporate entity but the entire body, including this community) to get its act into gear is provocation that some how justifies calling someone SATAN
>  
> This is shocking
>  
> Andrew
>  
>  
> From: Alan Barrett [mailto:alan.barrett at afrinic.net <mailto:alan.barrett at afrinic.net>] 
> Sent: 09 May 2018 13:39
> To: Marcus K. G. Adomey <madomey at hotmail.com <mailto:madomey at hotmail.com>>
> Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
>  
> Dear Marcus, Dear Sander,
> 
> In my opinion, the message from Marcus is a personal attack which is against the code of conduct. However, I understand that Marcus felt provoked by Sander?s message, which I think was unnecessary. (Both messages are copied below.)
> 
> I ask you both to be more careful of what you post.
> 
> Alan Barrett
> CEO, AFRINIC
> 
> 
> > On 9 May 2018, at 09:15, Marcus K. G. Adomey <madomey at hotmail.com <mailto:madomey at hotmail.com>> wrote:
> > 
> > Sander,
> > 
> > I am not surprise you are that you are sharing the "BAD NEWS" about the mess you and your friends from RIPE and ARIN are causing in AfriNIC in Community. This is a clear evidence that you are deploying your strategy to destroy AfriNIC. This is wicked and would come from EVIL GUYS like you and your friends. Well, any search for SATAN should stop when you are met because there is no difference between you and SATAN. You shameless people, leave us (the sheep) alone for us to fix the mess you have created in this community. Disgraced bad guys from RIPE and ARIN community.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Marcus
> > 
> > From: Sander Steffann <sander at steffann.nl <mailto:sander at steffann.nl>>
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 6:50:38 AM
> > To: community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> > Subject: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
> > 
> > Hello community,
> > 
> > I just noticed that the problems in Afrinic have reached the outside world beyond our community: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/08/afrinic_sexual_harassment/ <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/08/afrinic_sexual_harassment/>
> > 
> > It makes me really sad. It also poses a great risk to the future of the bottom up self regulation system we (speaking of all the RIRs) have built. Afrinic must get its act together and show the world that it is a respectable, reliable and fair organisation with broad support from its members.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Sander
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Community-Discuss mailing list
> > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
>  
> --
> Dr. Sami Salih  | Assistant Professor
> Sudan University of Science and Technology
> Eastern Dum, P.O Box 11111-407
> email: sami.salih at sustech.edu <mailto:sami.salih at sustech.edu>
> Mob: +249122045707
> 
> 
> -- 
> Dr. Sami Salih  | Assistant Professor
> Sudan University of Science and Technology
> Eastern Dum, P.O Box 11111-407
> email: sami.salih at sustech.edu <mailto:sami.salih at sustech.edu>
> Mob: +249122045707
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
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From badru.ntege at nftconsult.com  Wed May  9 13:06:25 2018
From: badru.ntege at nftconsult.com (Badru Ntege)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 13:06:25 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR0301MB2570FF0B3A8BA5D11896CBE9EE990@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <34B9AD2F-7601-4F42-B3F9-694FC652DBC5@steffann.nl>
 <AM0PR0602MB36035C79DF292180168B351EB9990@AM0PR0602MB3603.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <5E473C46-867B-4516-81F9-F0D4B4B8BFF8@afrinic.net>
 <HE1PR0301MB25701A5D4813BC18B610061AEE990@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <1685010038.1558292.1525866962543.JavaMail.zimbra@tpra.gov.sd>,
 <HE1PR0301MB2570FF0B3A8BA5D11896CBE9EE990@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <89928A402B8D754083A6F50CB52B2A570258069195@NFT-P-EX2.nftconsult.com>

Members

Can i ask we close this thread.  Since it has very little substance people end up going personal and this is not the time for us to be personal.

Lets rally behind AfriNIC right now and fix our own issues as we always do.


Lets focus on our agenda this week with policy and our AGMM tomorrow.

Thanking all in advance.

regards


________________________________
From: Andrew Alston [Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2018 3:03 PM
To: Sami Salih
Cc: community-discuss
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Bad news

Sami,

Are you now implying that I am some how less African than you? Despite being raised in Africa, lived in Africa all my life and under African skies will I die?

Your message implies that I am somehow not ?A real African? ? please can you clarify this?

Andrew


From: Sami Salih [mailto:sami at tpra.gov.sd]
Sent: 09 May 2018 14:56
To: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
Cc: Alan Barrett <alan.barrett at afrinic.net>; Marcus K. G. Adomey <madomey at hotmail.com>; community-discuss <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Bad news

Take it easy Mr. Alston
In some African culture, satan is used as an adjective to describe some behavior, in is some cases it even has positive meaning, but you need to be real African to got the meaning.
please try to respect the diversity of the Africans, and don't always refer the the meanings used outside out continent.

________________________________
From: "Andrew Alston" <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>>
To: "Alan Barrett" <alan.barrett at afrinic.net<mailto:alan.barrett at afrinic.net>>, "Marcus K. G. Adomey" <madomey at hotmail.com<mailto:madomey at hotmail.com>>
Cc: "community-discuss" <community-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 2:42:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Bad news

I?m sorry Alan,

But I am nothing short of appalled that you can equate the sharing of what is VALID concern to this community and the RIR system ? a situation that was created by AFRINIC ? because no one else created it ? with openly calling a member SATAN is just ? absolutely mind blowing.

Your message seems to imply that sharing legitimate concern and telling AFRINIC (referring to not just the corporate entity but the entire body, including this community) to get its act into gear is provocation that some how justifies calling someone SATAN

This is shocking

Andrew


From: Alan Barrett [mailto:alan.barrett at afrinic.net]
Sent: 09 May 2018 13:39
To: Marcus K. G. Adomey <madomey at hotmail.com<mailto:madomey at hotmail.com>>
Cc: community-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Bad news

Dear Marcus, Dear Sander,

In my opinion, the message from Marcus is a personal attack which is against the code of conduct. However, I understand that Marcus felt provoked by Sander?s message, which I think was unnecessary. (Both messages are copied below.)

I ask you both to be more careful of what you post.

Alan Barrett
CEO, AFRINIC


> On 9 May 2018, at 09:15, Marcus K. G. Adomey <madomey at hotmail.com<mailto:madomey at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Sander,
>
> I am not surprise you are that you are sharing the "BAD NEWS" about the mess you and your friends from RIPE and ARIN are causing in AfriNIC in Community. This is a clear evidence that you are deploying your strategy to destroy AfriNIC. This is wicked and would come from EVIL GUYS like you and your friends. Well, any search for SATAN should stop when you are met because there is no difference between you and SATAN. You shameless people, leave us (the sheep) alone for us to fix the mess you have created in this community. Disgraced bad guys from RIPE and ARIN community.
>
>
>
> Marcus
>
> From: Sander Steffann <sander at steffann.nl<mailto:sander at steffann.nl>>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018 6:50:38 AM
> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> Subject: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
>
> Hello community,
>
> I just noticed that the problems in Afrinic have reached the outside world beyond our community: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/05/08/afrinic_sexual_harassment/
>
> It makes me really sad. It also poses a great risk to the future of the bottom up self regulation system we (speaking of all the RIRs) have built. Afrinic must get its act together and show the world that it is a respectable, reliable and fair organisation with broad support from its members.
>
> Cheers,
> Sander
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss


_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

--
Dr. Sami Salih  | Assistant Professor
Sudan University of Science and Technology
Eastern Dum, P.O Box 11111-407
email: sami.salih at sustech.edu<mailto:sami.salih at sustech.edu>
Mob: +249122045707
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From noah at neo.co.tz  Wed May  9 14:50:35 2018
From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah)
Date: Wed, 09 May 2018 14:50:35 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Bad news
In-Reply-To: <89928A402B8D754083A6F50CB52B2A570258069195@NFT-P-EX2.nftconsult.com>
References: <34B9AD2F-7601-4F42-B3F9-694FC652DBC5@steffann.nl>
 <AM0PR0602MB36035C79DF292180168B351EB9990@AM0PR0602MB3603.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
 <5E473C46-867B-4516-81F9-F0D4B4B8BFF8@afrinic.net>
 <HE1PR0301MB25701A5D4813BC18B610061AEE990@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <1685010038.1558292.1525866962543.JavaMail.zimbra@tpra.gov.sd>
 <HE1PR0301MB2570FF0B3A8BA5D11896CBE9EE990@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <89928A402B8D754083A6F50CB52B2A570258069195@NFT-P-EX2.nftconsult.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqgTWaYNV4aaHfFQ0n3rvJiD90_ZJgTm4A8x62OxSwv5BDrQQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 9 May 2018, 1:11 p.m. Badru Ntege, <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com>
wrote:

> Members
>
>
>
> Lets focus on our agenda this week with policy and our AGMM tomorrow.
>

In full agreement..

Noah
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From noah at neo.co.tz  Wed May  9 17:39:07 2018
From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2018 20:39:07 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Board update on
	Governance Committee Report
In-Reply-To: <CAMhquhHwL9H_jk9f2tyB-FM7tfEJRq+e9_X57SHrv92MTo7v4A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMhquhHwL9H_jk9f2tyB-FM7tfEJRq+e9_X57SHrv92MTo7v4A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqgTWaQWLbkLUTXjr7er2=_ENggyX8mK9S1RvBMjC_uQTR8CA@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 10:53 PM, Abibu Ntahigiye <abibu.ntahigiye at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Afrinic Members,
>
>
> The Board in March 2018, as per resolution 201803.391, tasked the
> Governance Committee (GC) to convene an investigation on allegations made
> by a staff member. The GC was requested to define the Terms of Reference
> (TORs) for an independent investigation, and to appoint an investigation
> committee.  The Board requested the findings to be reported by 30 April
> 2018.
>
> The GC notified the community that they would deliver the report by 4 May
> 2018, and has submitted the report to the Board on 2 May 2018. The Board
> acknowledged receipt of the report. The Board is going to thoroughly
> consider the report and recommendations thereof, and will share with the
> community applicable actions and steps that will be taken in due course.
>
> The Board has also been advised that in considering the report they need
> to be cognizant of issues of confidentiality and data protection.
>
> With regards to allegations made against certain Board members, the Board
> can announce the following outcomes as derived from  the report:
>
>
>
>    -
>
>    That there was a violation of the Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA) and
>     section 153 of the Companies Act 2001, by Mr Sunday Folayan.
>
>
>
>    -
>
>    That there is no evidence whatsoever against Haitham El Nakhal of
>    having breached the terms of the NDA and/or section 153 of the Companies
>    Act 2001.
>
>
>
>    -
>
>    That the Investigation Committee (IC) is satisfied that there was no
>    evidence of harassment, bullying or intimidation by Board members.
>
>
> The Board will re-evaluate the interim Chair and Vice Chair appointments
> that were made in resolution 201803.398.
>
> With regards to allegations made against certain members of staff, the
> Board observed from the IC report  that there may have been inappropriate
> behaviour on the part of certain staff members.
>
>
> The findings and recommendations related to staff matters will be
> addressed through necessary processes.
>
> We appeal to the community to allow the Board time to consider the report
> carefully, and provide feedback to the community no later than 31 July 2018
> on the next steps and how the recommendations will be implemented.
>
>
> Kind regards
>
> ----
>
> Abibu R. Ntahigiye
>
> Chair, Afrinic Board.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Members-Discuss mailing list
> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
>
>

Dear Chairman,

Thank you for your email and I would like to draw your attention to a
number of issues that the Board's update on the yet to be disclosed GC
report raises issues considering the contents of the document that found
itself on this public mailing list regarding AfriNIC staff complains of
harassment.  On the whole, your message to the community appears to not
clearly explain the real issues and seems to be an attempt to exonerate
board members yet this was never about the entire board but rather
complains about some specific members of the board and I will try to
explain what I
mean.

*1. ETHICS: *

It is obvious to this community that a member of the board shared private
privileged information contrary to the Company Act section 153 as
rightfully quoted in your email. This was even acknowledged by the director
who happened to be the Chair of the board at the time.  He has since
resigned after the community and the membership held them to a higher
ethical standard.

We can see from incontrovertible evidence shared in the chat messages that
both Chair and his Vice acted unethically engaged the CEO to privately
discuss HR issues related to a member of staff that even the CEO was
unaware of but yet also entertained it. To my understanding, good
governance practices requires that the board should operate in such a way
that it has nose-in,  hands-out. In circumstance where the CEO allows some
of the board members to have hand-in and nose-in, the CEO also should have
escalated to the entire board.  That is why there is a reason for
separation of roles/powers in organizations.

In my humble opinion, these private chats alone were further evidence of
unethical behavior with all the hallmarks of work-place harassment if you
consider the contents showed in those discussions;

- the Directors undermined a member of staff who up to this point had been
regarded as competent with unduly excessive and unfair criticism,
deliberately constraining their ability to perform their duty
- the Directors made threats/comments about the staff that relate to the
employees job security without foundation and this is a form of work-place
harassment.
-  the Directors engaged in the spread of malicious rumors about staff
which is a form of work-place harassment

It stands to reason that the former staff who shared private chats with the
Chair with the complainant would have been at the brunt of similar activity
resulting in the claims of a witch-hunt against them in the document
circulated on the mailing list. As such there is no way we can claim that
there was no harassment yet work-place harassment can manifest itself in
quite a number of ways.

*2. HARRASSMENT:*

Let me also point out to this community and the board, what I believe would
be additional forms of harassment both ethically and morally.
- Insulting someone
- Unfair treatment based on gender or language
- Other misuses of power or position

Again, from the document that found itself on the mailing list, it was
pretty obvious to all of us that  inappropriate language was used by a
member of staff and from your communication Mr.Chair, its pretty much
determined that there was such form of harassment, which is why its always
important for such HR issues to be resolved equitably when they arise so
that staff do not feel unfairly treated.  The staff are at the heart of the
organization and AfriNIC needs to make sure that it will ensure a conducive
working environment for all members of staff both male and female.

I therefore call upon the board and management to sort out the looming
human resource challenge facing AfriNIC today. We should never find
ourselves in such situations considering the risks and reputation this has
towards the organization.

*3. ACCOUNTABILITY:*

To conclude my submission, let me point out that the resolution passed by
the board to task the GC to come up with Terms of Reference for the
Investigation Committee in order to avoid conflict of interest on the past
of the entire board was the proper thing to do and this reasoning should be
followed to the end though I am surprised that the board tasked the GC to
formulate the ToR, engage an IC but did not consider the privacy and
confidentiality Implications of the process when it was clear that the
community requested and expected an independent assessment of the situation
and not a board view of the assessment.

It is more surprising that the board did not anticipate the course of
things and has now requested for more time to go through the report  and so
far we have not heard of any concrete actions or measures taken towards the
staff issues.  Despite the time that has passed, we are also not clearer
than when the allegations were made save for the undeniable evidence that
was shared.

Its my personal recommendation that the board send back the report to the
GC who should engage the IC to come up with a report that will not have
legal implications to the organization due to the local Data Protection
Laws. This should then be shared with the community and membership in my
humble opinion.

*4. GOVERNANCE:*

In terms of governance going forward, I believe the community and  the
membership want to see measures in place that will ensure a safe and
conducive working environment for the staff and the organization at large.
The board still has great opportunity to sort out a whole range of issues
including improvement of existing measures in place.


This are my 2 cents dear community

-- 
*./noah*
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From kmw.elitcha at gmail.com  Thu May 10 11:13:50 2018
From: kmw.elitcha at gmail.com (Komi Elitcha)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2018 11:13:50 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Board update on
 Governance Committee Report
In-Reply-To: <CAEqgTWaQWLbkLUTXjr7er2=_ENggyX8mK9S1RvBMjC_uQTR8CA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMhquhHwL9H_jk9f2tyB-FM7tfEJRq+e9_X57SHrv92MTo7v4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEqgTWaQWLbkLUTXjr7er2=_ENggyX8mK9S1RvBMjC_uQTR8CA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN0q0kG2tcEzHpw8dL4jho8ugJm+v-DsAYxFczHEYh3u8ATMfg@mail.gmail.com>

Good day Noah, board and community,

Thank you Noah  for pointing out a range of issues and that the board
should send back the report to GC and task them to come up with another
clear, reducted and meaningful report that will not present legal and data
protection issues.

This should be done within a maximum of two weeks according to me.

I humbly think the board owe this level of TRANSPARENCY to his community.

Regards,


2018-05-09 17:39 GMT+00:00 Noah <noah at neo.co.tz>:

>
>
> On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 10:53 PM, Abibu Ntahigiye <
> abibu.ntahigiye at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Afrinic Members,
>>
>>
>> The Board in March 2018, as per resolution 201803.391, tasked the
>> Governance Committee (GC) to convene an investigation on allegations made
>> by a staff member. The GC was requested to define the Terms of Reference
>> (TORs) for an independent investigation, and to appoint an investigation
>> committee.  The Board requested the findings to be reported by 30 April
>> 2018.
>>
>> The GC notified the community that they would deliver the report by 4 May
>> 2018, and has submitted the report to the Board on 2 May 2018. The Board
>> acknowledged receipt of the report. The Board is going to thoroughly
>> consider the report and recommendations thereof, and will share with the
>> community applicable actions and steps that will be taken in due course.
>>
>> The Board has also been advised that in considering the report they need
>> to be cognizant of issues of confidentiality and data protection.
>>
>> With regards to allegations made against certain Board members, the Board
>> can announce the following outcomes as derived from  the report:
>>
>>
>>
>>    -
>>
>>    That there was a violation of the Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA) and
>>     section 153 of the Companies Act 2001, by Mr Sunday Folayan.
>>
>>
>>
>>    -
>>
>>    That there is no evidence whatsoever against Haitham El Nakhal of
>>    having breached the terms of the NDA and/or section 153 of the Companies
>>    Act 2001.
>>
>>
>>
>>    -
>>
>>    That the Investigation Committee (IC) is satisfied that there was no
>>    evidence of harassment, bullying or intimidation by Board members.
>>
>>
>> The Board will re-evaluate the interim Chair and Vice Chair appointments
>> that were made in resolution 201803.398.
>>
>> With regards to allegations made against certain members of staff, the
>> Board observed from the IC report  that there may have been inappropriate
>> behaviour on the part of certain staff members.
>>
>>
>> The findings and recommendations related to staff matters will be
>> addressed through necessary processes.
>>
>> We appeal to the community to allow the Board time to consider the report
>> carefully, and provide feedback to the community no later than 31 July 2018
>> on the next steps and how the recommendations will be implemented.
>>
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>> ----
>>
>> Abibu R. Ntahigiye
>>
>> Chair, Afrinic Board.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Members-Discuss mailing list
>> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
>>
>>
>
> Dear Chairman,
>
> Thank you for your email and I would like to draw your attention to a
> number of issues that the Board's update on the yet to be disclosed GC
> report raises issues considering the contents of the document that found
> itself on this public mailing list regarding AfriNIC staff complains of
> harassment.  On the whole, your message to the community appears to not
> clearly explain the real issues and seems to be an attempt to exonerate
> board members yet this was never about the entire board but rather
> complains about some specific members of the board and I will try to
> explain what I mean.
>
>
> *1. ETHICS: *
>
> It is obvious to this community that a member of the board shared private
> privileged information contrary to the Company Act section 153 as
> rightfully quoted in your email. This was even acknowledged by the director
> who happened to be the Chair of the board at the time.  He has since
> resigned after the community and the membership held them to a higher
> ethical standard.
>
> We can see from incontrovertible evidence shared in the chat messages that
> both Chair and his Vice acted unethically engaged the CEO to privately
> discuss HR issues related to a member of staff that even the CEO was
> unaware of but yet also entertained it. To my understanding, good
> governance practices requires that the board should operate in such a way
> that it has nose-in,  hands-out. In circumstance where the CEO allows some
> of the board members to have hand-in and nose-in, the CEO also should have
> escalated to the entire board.  That is why there is a reason for
> separation of roles/powers in organizations.
>
> In my humble opinion, these private chats alone were further evidence of
> unethical behavior with all the hallmarks of work-place harassment if you
> consider the contents showed in those discussions;
>
> - the Directors undermined a member of staff who up to this point had been
> regarded as competent with unduly excessive and unfair criticism,
> deliberately constraining their ability to perform their duty
> - the Directors made threats/comments about the staff that relate to the
> employees job security without foundation and this is a form of work-place
> harassment.
> -  the Directors engaged in the spread of malicious rumors about staff
> which is a form of work-place harassment
>
> It stands to reason that the former staff who shared private chats with
> the Chair with the complainant would have been at the brunt of similar
> activity resulting in the claims of a witch-hunt against them in the
> document circulated on the mailing list. As such there is no way we can
> claim that there was no harassment yet work-place harassment can manifest
> itself in quite a number of ways.
>
> *2. HARRASSMENT:*
>
> Let me also point out to this community and the board, what I believe
> would be additional forms of harassment both ethically and morally.
> - Insulting someone
> - Unfair treatment based on gender or language
> - Other misuses of power or position
>
> Again, from the document that found itself on the mailing list, it was
> pretty obvious to all of us that  inappropriate language was used by a
> member of staff and from your communication Mr.Chair, its pretty much
> determined that there was such form of harassment, which is why its always
> important for such HR issues to be resolved equitably when they arise so
> that staff do not feel unfairly treated.  The staff are at the heart of the
> organization and AfriNIC needs to make sure that it will ensure a conducive
> working environment for all members of staff both male and female.
>
> I therefore call upon the board and management to sort out the looming
> human resource challenge facing AfriNIC today. We should never find
> ourselves in such situations considering the risks and reputation this has
> towards the organization.
>
> *3. ACCOUNTABILITY:*
>
> To conclude my submission, let me point out that the resolution passed by
> the board to task the GC to come up with Terms of Reference for the
> Investigation Committee in order to avoid conflict of interest on the past
> of the entire board was the proper thing to do and this reasoning should be
> followed to the end though I am surprised that the board tasked the GC to
> formulate the ToR, engage an IC but did not consider the privacy and
> confidentiality Implications of the process when it was clear that the
> community requested and expected an independent assessment of the situation
> and not a board view of the assessment.
>
> It is more surprising that the board did not anticipate the course of
> things and has now requested for more time to go through the report  and so
> far we have not heard of any concrete actions or measures taken towards the
> staff issues.  Despite the time that has passed, we are also not clearer
> than when the allegations were made save for the undeniable evidence that
> was shared.
>
> Its my personal recommendation that the board send back the report to the
> GC who should engage the IC to come up with a report that will not have
> legal implications to the organization due to the local Data Protection
> Laws. This should then be shared with the community and membership in my
> humble opinion.
>
> *4. GOVERNANCE:*
>
> In terms of governance going forward, I believe the community and  the
> membership want to see measures in place that will ensure a safe and
> conducive working environment for the staff and the organization at large.
> The board still has great opportunity to sort out a whole range of issues
> including improvement of existing measures in place.
>
>
> This are my 2 cents dear community
>
> --
> *./noah*
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>


-- 
--KE
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From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com  Thu May 10 12:53:11 2018
From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2018 12:53:11 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Board update on
 Governance Committee Report
In-Reply-To: <CAN0q0kG2tcEzHpw8dL4jho8ugJm+v-DsAYxFczHEYh3u8ATMfg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMhquhHwL9H_jk9f2tyB-FM7tfEJRq+e9_X57SHrv92MTo7v4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEqgTWaQWLbkLUTXjr7er2=_ENggyX8mK9S1RvBMjC_uQTR8CA@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAN0q0kG2tcEzHpw8dL4jho8ugJm+v-DsAYxFczHEYh3u8ATMfg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <HE1PR0301MB257009B349782F45AD4DAEABEE980@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Komi,

Since the board has refused to table the actual GC report and let us see what is it in, sending it back and asking the GC for another one is pointless.

Let the board disclose the first one then we can judge if anything more is needed

Andrew

Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>

________________________________
From: Komi Elitcha <kmw.elitcha at gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 2:13:50 PM
To: Noah
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC; AfriNIC Discuss
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Board update on Governance Committee Report

Good day Noah, board and community,

Thank you Noah  for pointing out a range of issues and that the board should send back the report to GC and task them to come up with another clear, reducted and meaningful report that will not present legal and data protection issues.

This should be done within a maximum of two weeks according to me.

I humbly think the board owe this level of TRANSPARENCY to his community.

Regards,


2018-05-09 17:39 GMT+00:00 Noah <noah at neo.co.tz<mailto:noah at neo.co.tz>>:


On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 10:53 PM, Abibu Ntahigiye <abibu.ntahigiye at gmail.com<mailto:abibu.ntahigiye at gmail.com>> wrote:

Dear Afrinic Members,


The Board in March 2018, as per resolution 201803.391, tasked the Governance Committee (GC) to convene an investigation on allegations made by a staff member. The GC was requested to define the Terms of Reference (TORs) for an independent investigation, and to appoint an investigation committee.  The Board requested the findings to be reported by 30 April 2018.


The GC notified the community that they would deliver the report by 4 May 2018, and has submitted the report to the Board on 2 May 2018. The Board acknowledged receipt of the report. The Board is going to thoroughly consider the report and recommendations thereof, and will share with the community applicable actions and steps that will be taken in due course.


The Board has also been advised that in considering the report they need to be cognizant of issues of confidentiality and data protection.


With regards to allegations made against certain Board members, the Board can announce the following outcomes as derived from  the report:



  *   That there was a violation of the Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA) and  section 153 of the Companies Act 2001, by Mr Sunday Folayan.


  *   That there is no evidence whatsoever against Haitham El Nakhal of having breached the terms of the NDA and/or section 153 of the Companies Act 2001.



  *   That the Investigation Committee (IC) is satisfied that there was no evidence of harassment, bullying or intimidation by Board members.


The Board will re-evaluate the interim Chair and Vice Chair appointments that were made in resolution 201803.398.


With regards to allegations made against certain members of staff, the Board observed from the IC report  that there may have been inappropriate behaviour on the part of certain staff members.


The findings and recommendations related to staff matters will be addressed through necessary processes.


We appeal to the community to allow the Board time to consider the report carefully, and provide feedback to the community no later than 31 July 2018 on the next steps and how the recommendations will be implemented.


Kind regards

----

Abibu R. Ntahigiye

Chair, Afrinic Board.


_______________________________________________
Members-Discuss mailing list
Members-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Members-Discuss at afrinic.net>
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss<https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss>



Dear Chairman,

Thank you for your email and I would like to draw your attention to a number of issues that the Board's update on the yet to be disclosed GC report raises issues considering the contents of the document that found itself on this public mailing list regarding AfriNIC staff complains of harassment.  On the whole, your message to the community appears to not clearly explain the real issues and seems to be an attempt to exonerate board members yet this was never about the entire board but rather complains about some specific members of the board and I will try to explain what I mean.

1. ETHICS:

It is obvious to this community that a member of the board shared private privileged information contrary to the Company Act section 153 as rightfully quoted in your email. This was even acknowledged by the director who happened to be the Chair of the board at the time.  He has since resigned after the community and the membership held them to a higher ethical standard.

We can see from incontrovertible evidence shared in the chat messages that both Chair and his Vice acted unethically engaged the CEO to privately discuss HR issues related to a member of staff that even the CEO was unaware of but yet also entertained it. To my understanding, good governance practices requires that the board should operate in such a way that it has nose-in,  hands-out. In circumstance where the CEO allows some of the board members to have hand-in and nose-in, the CEO also should have escalated to the entire board.  That is why there is a reason for separation of roles/powers in organizations.

In my humble opinion, these private chats alone were further evidence of unethical behavior with all the hallmarks of work-place harassment if you consider the contents showed in those discussions;

- the Directors undermined a member of staff who up to this point had been regarded as competent with unduly excessive and unfair criticism, deliberately constraining their ability to perform their duty
- the Directors made threats/comments about the staff that relate to the employees job security without foundation and this is a form of work-place harassment.
-  the Directors engaged in the spread of malicious rumors about staff which is a form of work-place harassment

It stands to reason that the former staff who shared private chats with the Chair with the complainant would have been at the brunt of similar activity resulting in the claims of a witch-hunt against them in the document circulated on the mailing list. As such there is no way we can claim that there was no harassment yet work-place harassment can manifest itself in quite a number of ways.

2. HARRASSMENT:

Let me also point out to this community and the board, what I believe would be additional forms of harassment both ethically and morally.
- Insulting someone
- Unfair treatment based on gender or language
- Other misuses of power or position

Again, from the document that found itself on the mailing list, it was pretty obvious to all of us that  inappropriate language was used by a member of staff and from your communication Mr.Chair, its pretty much determined that there was such form of harassment, which is why its always important for such HR issues to be resolved equitably when they arise so that staff do not feel unfairly treated.  The staff are at the heart of the organization and AfriNIC needs to make sure that it will ensure a conducive working environment for all members of staff both male and female.

I therefore call upon the board and management to sort out the looming human resource challenge facing AfriNIC today. We should never find ourselves in such situations considering the risks and reputation this has towards the organization.

3. ACCOUNTABILITY:

To conclude my submission, let me point out that the resolution passed by the board to task the GC to come up with Terms of Reference for the Investigation Committee in order to avoid conflict of interest on the past of the entire board was the proper thing to do and this reasoning should be followed to the end though I am surprised that the board tasked the GC to formulate the ToR, engage an IC but did not consider the privacy and confidentiality Implications of the process when it was clear that the community requested and expected an independent assessment of the situation and not a board view of the assessment.

It is more surprising that the board did not anticipate the course of things and has now requested for more time to go through the report  and so far we have not heard of any concrete actions or measures taken towards the staff issues.  Despite the time that has passed, we are also not clearer than when the allegations were made save for the undeniable evidence that was shared.

Its my personal recommendation that the board send back the report to the GC who should engage the IC to come up with a report that will not have legal implications to the organization due to the local Data Protection Laws. This should then be shared with the community and membership in my humble opinion.

4. GOVERNANCE:

In terms of governance going forward, I believe the community and  the membership want to see measures in place that will ensure a safe and conducive working environment for the staff and the organization at large. The board still has great opportunity to sort out a whole range of issues including improvement of existing measures in place.


This are my 2 cents dear community

--
./noah

_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>




--
--KE


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From funga.roho at yandex.com  Thu May 10 23:46:12 2018
From: funga.roho at yandex.com (Kangamutima zabika Christophe)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2018 00:46:12 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 318, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1525953601.8819.community-discuss@afrinic.net>
References: <mailman.3.1525953601.8819.community-discuss@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <1198841525995972@web28g.yandex.ru>

Andrew,

Si tu ?tais un vrai africain tu ne te donnerai pas tout le mal que tu t'est donn? ces 2 semaines pour torpiller tout effort de re-assemblage de la communaut?, comme tu l'as fait.

Tu pr?tend ?tre africain, parceque tu vis en Afrique, tu travailles en afrique mais tu n'as rien de l'?me de ce continent. Toutes tes interventions vont dans le sens du mercenariat et d'une intelligence ? d?truire ? ce qui a ?t? ch?rement con?u.

Mais nous les vrais africains, nous allons prendre le mal dont tu souffres en charge, nous ne lasserons pas ? te purifier. 

Quand je pense ? toutes les occasions de te taire que tu as rat?.

Tu ne r?ussiras pas ? casser la symbiose qui existe dans cette communaut?.  Moi personnellement, j'en viendrai ? bout de tout le poison que tu inocules dans tes messages arrogants, discourtois et naus?abond.

KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA

Andrew,

If you were a true African you will not give you all the trouble you've been given these 2 weeks to torpedo any effort to re-assemble the community, as you did.

You pretend to be African, because you live in Africa, you work in Africa but you have nothing of the soul of this continent. All your interventions are in the direction of mercenaries and an intelligence to destroy to what has been dearly designed.

But we true Africans, we will take the evil that you suffer in charge, we will not tire to purify you.

When I think of every opportunity to shut up that you missed.

You will not succeed in breaking the symbiosis that exists in this community. Me personally, I will get rid of all the poison that you inoculate in your messages arrogant, discourteous and nauseating ..



From christianbope at gmail.com  Fri May 11 07:56:37 2018
From: christianbope at gmail.com (Bope Christian)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2018 08:56:37 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Filling of the casual vacancies
Message-ID: <D2DB0AF7-BA39-4DBB-83A1-B9D23182C0F6@gmail.com>

Dear AFRINIC community,

There are currently four casual vacancies in the AFRINIC Board.  The Board has the power, in terms of the Bylaws article 13.14, to fill the casual vacancies for a period until the next AGMM.

The Board intends to hold a 30-day call for expressions of interest from people who wish to be considered for appointment.  Subsequent to the end of the 30 day period, the Board will consider the expressions of interest and take appropriate action.

Best Regards,
Christian D. Bope, Ph.D
Chair, Afrinic Board





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From badru.ntege at nftconsult.com  Fri May 11 08:20:11 2018
From: badru.ntege at nftconsult.com (Badru Ntege)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2018 08:20:11 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 318, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <1198841525995972@web28g.yandex.ru>
References: <mailman.3.1525953601.8819.community-discuss@afrinic.net>
 <1198841525995972@web28g.yandex.ru>
Message-ID: <5F63CA4B-39CC-42BB-8A6A-E1AE2EE180F4@nftconsult.com>

Many of us share the sentiment and we will do everything it takes eliminate this behavior 

Sent from my iPhone

> On 10 May 2018, at 23:49, Kangamutima zabika Christophe <funga.roho at yandex.com> wrote:
> 
> Andrew,
> 
> Si tu ?tais un vrai africain tu ne te donnerai pas tout le mal que tu t'est donn? ces 2 semaines pour torpiller tout effort de re-assemblage de la communaut?, comme tu l'as fait.
> 
> Tu pr?tend ?tre africain, parceque tu vis en Afrique, tu travailles en afrique mais tu n'as rien de l'?me de ce continent. Toutes tes interventions vont dans le sens du mercenariat et d'une intelligence ? d?truire ? ce qui a ?t? ch?rement con?u.
> 
> Mais nous les vrais africains, nous allons prendre le mal dont tu souffres en charge, nous ne lasserons pas ? te purifier. 
> 
> Quand je pense ? toutes les occasions de te taire que tu as rat?.
> 
> Tu ne r?ussiras pas ? casser la symbiose qui existe dans cette communaut?.  Moi personnellement, j'en viendrai ? bout de tout le poison que tu inocules dans tes messages arrogants, discourtois et naus?abond.
> 
> KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA
> 
> Andrew,
> 
> If you were a true African you will not give you all the trouble you've been given these 2 weeks to torpedo any effort to re-assemble the community, as you did.
> 
> You pretend to be African, because you live in Africa, you work in Africa but you have nothing of the soul of this continent. All your interventions are in the direction of mercenaries and an intelligence to destroy to what has been dearly designed.
> 
> But we true Africans, we will take the evil that you suffer in charge, we will not tire to purify you.
> 
> When I think of every opportunity to shut up that you missed.
> 
> You will not succeed in breaking the symbiosis that exists in this community. Me personally, I will get rid of all the poison that you inoculate in your messages arrogant, discourteous and nauseating ..
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

From amessinoukossi at gmail.com  Fri May 11 09:29:51 2018
From: amessinoukossi at gmail.com (Kossi Amessinou)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2018 10:29:51 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Filling of the casual vacancies
In-Reply-To: <D2DB0AF7-BA39-4DBB-83A1-B9D23182C0F6@gmail.com>
References: <D2DB0AF7-BA39-4DBB-83A1-B9D23182C0F6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHOT-HVEHJhr-+dgXY+BoDtm9ay6sZZAxUieavN9B=RWZtM6Kg@mail.gmail.com>

Bonjour ? tous,
F?licitation au nouveau Pr?sident du conseil d'administration,
La communaut? vous encourage ? faire des innovations fondamentales pour
nous donner une meilleure lisibilit? sur le fonctionnement de notre
organisation communautaire. Il faut permettre l'arriv?e de nouvelles
personnes dans l'organisation. Il faut un renouvellement permanent du
m?canisme de gouvernance. Il faut du sang neuf pour de nouveaux d?fis
communautaires. Je recommande que certains postes ne donnent pas droit ?
renouvellement. C'est le cas des postes de pr?sident et de responsable
financier. Les autres acteurs peuvent revenir au conseil d'administration
mais pas au m?me poste. Merci.
Bonne chance.

2018-05-11 8:56 GMT+01:00 Bope Christian <christianbope at gmail.com>:

> Dear AFRINIC community,
>
> There are currently four casual vacancies in the AFRINIC Board.  The Board
> has the power, in terms of the Bylaws article 13.14, to fill the casual
> vacancies for a period until the next AGMM.
>
> The Board intends to hold a 30-day call for expressions of interest from
> people who wish to be considered for appointment.  Subsequent to the end of
> the 30 day period, the Board will consider the expressions of interest and
> take appropriate action.
>
> Best Regards,
> Christian D. Bope, Ph.D
> Chair, Afrinic Board
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>


-- 
AMESSINOU Kossi
Ing?nieur TIC | ICT Engineer
Contact personnel: 00229 95 19 67 02
Bo?te Postale: 01BP7304 Cotonou - B?nin
Emails: kossi.amessinou at fgi.bj
kamessinou at developpement.gouv.bj
amessinoukossi at gmail.com
skype: amessinou | @amessinou | @bigf
http://www.facebook.com/amessinoukossi |
www.linkedin.com/pub/kossi-amessinou
Que Dieu vous b?nisse | Dans le silence, Dieu nous parle! Ma parole est mon
pouvoir.
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From silber.mike at gmail.com  Fri May 11 18:07:38 2018
From: silber.mike at gmail.com (Mike Silber)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2018 11:07:38 -0700
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Board update on
 Governance Committee Report
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR0301MB257009B349782F45AD4DAEABEE980@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAMhquhHwL9H_jk9f2tyB-FM7tfEJRq+e9_X57SHrv92MTo7v4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEqgTWaQWLbkLUTXjr7er2=_ENggyX8mK9S1RvBMjC_uQTR8CA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAN0q0kG2tcEzHpw8dL4jho8ugJm+v-DsAYxFczHEYh3u8ATMfg@mail.gmail.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB257009B349782F45AD4DAEABEE980@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <F9B51AB8-973A-43F6-A03D-3B2AF782C47D@gmail.com>

Andrew

Let?s agree to disagree.

Your comment does not parse.

Mike

> On 10 May 2018, at 05:53, Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com> wrote:
> 
> Komi, 
> 
> Since the board has refused to table the actual GC report and let us see what is it in, sending it back and asking the GC for another one is pointless.
> 
> Let the board disclose the first one then we can judge if anything more is needed
> 
> Andrew 
> 
> Get Outlook for Android <https://aka.ms/ghei36>
> From: Komi Elitcha <kmw.elitcha at gmail.com>
> Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 2:13:50 PM
> To: Noah
> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC; AfriNIC Discuss
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Board update on Governance Committee Report
>  
> Good day Noah, board and community,
> 
> Thank you Noah  for pointing out a range of issues and that the board should send back the report to GC and task them to come up with another clear, reducted and meaningful report that will not present legal and data protection issues.
> 
> This should be done within a maximum of two weeks according to me.
> 
> I humbly think the board owe this level of TRANSPARENCY to his community.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> 2018-05-09 17:39 GMT+00:00 Noah <noah at neo.co.tz <mailto:noah at neo.co.tz>>:
> 
> 
> On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 10:53 PM, Abibu Ntahigiye <abibu.ntahigiye at gmail.com <mailto:abibu.ntahigiye at gmail.com>> wrote:
>  Dear Afrinic Members,
> 
> 
> 
> The Board in March 2018, as per resolution 201803.391,
>  tasked the Governance Committee (GC) to convene an investigation on allegations made by a staff member. The GC was requested to define the Terms of Reference (TORs) for an independent investigation, and to appoint an investigation committee.  The Board requested
>  the findings to be reported by 30 April 2018.
> 
> The GC notified the community that they would deliver
>  the report by 4 May 2018, and has submitted the report to the Board on 2 May 2018. The Board acknowledged receipt of the report. The Board is going to thoroughly consider the report and recommendations thereof, and will share with the community applicable
>  actions and steps that will be taken in due course.
> 
> The Board has also been advised that in considering
>  the report they need to be cognizant of issues of confidentiality and data protection.
> 
> With regards to allegations made against certain Board
>  members, the Board can announce the following outcomes as derived from  the report:
>    
> 
> That there was a violation of the Non-Disclosure Agreement
>  (NDA) and  section 153 of the Companies Act 2001, by Mr Sunday Folayan.
> 
> 
> 
> That there is no evidence whatsoever against Haitham
>  El Nakhal of having breached the terms of the NDA and/or section 153 of the Companies Act 2001.
> 
>    
> 
> That the Investigation Committee (IC) is satisfied
>  that there was no evidence of harassment, bullying or intimidation by Board members.
> 
> 
> The Board will re-evaluate the interim Chair and Vice
>  Chair appointments that were made in resolution 201803.398.
> 
> With regards to allegations made against certain members
>  of staff, the Board observed from the IC report  that there may have been inappropriate behaviour on the part of certain staff members.
> 
> 
> The findings and recommendations related to staff matters
>  will be addressed through necessary processes.
> 
> We appeal to the community to allow the Board time
>  to consider the report carefully, and provide feedback to the community no later than 31 July 2018 on the next steps and how the recommendations will be implemented.
> 
> 
> Kind regards
> ----
> 
> Abibu R. Ntahigiye
> Chair, Afrinic Board.
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Members-Discuss mailing list
> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Members-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss>
> 
> 
> 
> Dear Chairman,
> 
> Thank you for your email and I would like to draw your attention to a number of issues that the Board's update on the yet to be disclosed GC report raises issues considering the contents of the document that found itself on this public mailing list regarding AfriNIC staff complains of harassment.  On the whole, your message to the community appears to not clearly explain the real issues and seems to be an attempt to exonerate board members yet this was never about the entire board but rather complains about some specific members of the board and I will try to explain what I mean.                                                                       
> 
> 1. ETHICS: 
> 
> It is obvious to this community that a member of the board shared private privileged information contrary to the Company Act section 153 as rightfully quoted in your email. This was even acknowledged by the director who happened to be the Chair of the board at the time.  He has since resigned after the community and the membership held them to a higher ethical standard. 
> 
> We can see from incontrovertible evidence shared in the chat messages that both Chair and his Vice acted unethically engaged the CEO to privately discuss HR issues related to a member of staff that even the CEO was unaware of but yet also entertained it. To my understanding, good governance practices requires that the board should operate in such a way that it has nose-in,  hands-out. In circumstance where the CEO allows some of the board members to have hand-in and nose-in, the CEO also should have escalated to the entire board.  That is why there is a reason for separation of roles/powers in organizations.
> 
> In my humble opinion, these private chats alone were further evidence of unethical behavior with all the hallmarks of work-place harassment if you consider the contents showed in those discussions;
> 
> - the Directors undermined a member of staff who up to this point had been regarded as competent with unduly excessive and unfair criticism, deliberately constraining their ability to perform their duty
> - the Directors made threats/comments about the staff that relate to the employees job security without foundation and this is a form of work-place harassment. 
> -  the Directors engaged in the spread of malicious rumors about staff which is a form of work-place harassment
> 
> It stands to reason that the former staff who shared private chats with the Chair with the complainant would have been at the brunt of similar activity resulting in the claims of a witch-hunt against them in the document circulated on the mailing list. As such there is no way we can claim that there was no harassment yet work-place harassment can manifest itself in quite a number of ways.
> 
> 2. HARRASSMENT:
> 
> Let me also point out to this community and the board, what I believe would be additional forms of harassment both ethically and morally.
> - Insulting someone
> - Unfair treatment based on gender or language
> - Other misuses of power or position
> 
> Again, from the document that found itself on the mailing list, it was pretty obvious to all of us that  inappropriate language was used by a member of staff and from your communication Mr.Chair, its pretty much determined that there was such form of harassment, which is why its always important for such HR issues to be resolved equitably when they arise so that staff do not feel unfairly treated.  The staff are at the heart of the organization and AfriNIC needs to make sure that it will ensure a conducive working environment for all members of staff both male and female.
> 
> I therefore call upon the board and management to sort out the looming human resource challenge facing AfriNIC today. We should never find ourselves in such situations considering the risks and reputation this has towards the organization.
> 
> 3. ACCOUNTABILITY:
> 
> To conclude my submission, let me point out that the resolution passed by the board to task the GC to come up with Terms of Reference for the Investigation Committee in order to avoid conflict of interest on the past of the entire board was the proper thing to do and this reasoning should be followed to the end though I am surprised that the board tasked the GC to formulate the ToR, engage an IC but did not consider the privacy and confidentiality Implications of the process when it was clear that the community requested and expected an independent assessment of the situation and not a board view of the assessment.  
> 
> It is more surprising that the board did not anticipate the course of things and has now requested for more time to go through the report  and so far we have not heard of any concrete actions or measures taken towards the staff issues.  Despite the time that has passed, we are also not clearer than when the allegations were made save for the undeniable evidence that was shared.
> 
> Its my personal recommendation that the board send back the report to the GC who should engage the IC to come up with a report that will not have legal implications to the organization due to the local Data Protection Laws. This should then be shared with the community and membership in my humble opinion.
> 
> 4. GOVERNANCE:
> 
> In terms of governance going forward, I believe the community and  the membership want to see measures in place that will ensure a safe and conducive working environment for the staff and the organization at large. The board still has great opportunity to sort out a whole range of issues including improvement of existing measures in place.
> 
> 
> This are my 2 cents dear community
> 
> -- 
> ./noah
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> --KE
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

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From jaberamatogoro at gmail.com  Fri May 11 21:16:37 2018
From: jaberamatogoro at gmail.com (Matogoro Jabera)
Date: Sat, 12 May 2018 00:16:37 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Filling of the casual vacancies
In-Reply-To: <D2DB0AF7-BA39-4DBB-83A1-B9D23182C0F6@gmail.com>
References: <D2DB0AF7-BA39-4DBB-83A1-B9D23182C0F6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANd6-7taE--xSL7f=yjqaqw+PhnPqsObvbc9BSc_M-AK2z7_cw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Bope,

Congratulation for the election. I would like to express my interest for
the casual vacancy appointment. I have been an active members in various
technical forum including AFRINIC.

I remained to be guided on the procedure and details on the same.


Regards,

MATOGORO Jabhera
Assistant Lecturer & Coordinator - Microsoft Innovation Center, Tanzania
College of Informatics and Virtual Education
The University of Dodoma (www.udom.ac.tz)
*IEEE Graduate Member: 93934185*

On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 10:56 AM, Bope Christian <christianbope at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear AFRINIC community,
>
> There are currently four casual vacancies in the AFRINIC Board.  The Board
> has the power, in terms of the Bylaws article 13.14, to fill the casual
> vacancies for a period until the next AGMM.
>
> The Board intends to hold a 30-day call for expressions of interest from
> people who wish to be considered for appointment.  Subsequent to the end of
> the 30 day period, the Board will consider the expressions of interest and
> take appropriate action.
>
> Best Regards,
> Christian D. Bope, Ph.D
> Chair, Afrinic Board
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
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From christianbope at gmail.com  Sat May 12 04:38:54 2018
From: christianbope at gmail.com (Bope Domilongo Christian)
Date: Sat, 12 May 2018 05:38:54 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Filling of the casual vacancies
In-Reply-To: <CANd6-7taE--xSL7f=yjqaqw+PhnPqsObvbc9BSc_M-AK2z7_cw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D2DB0AF7-BA39-4DBB-83A1-B9D23182C0F6@gmail.com>
 <CANd6-7taE--xSL7f=yjqaqw+PhnPqsObvbc9BSc_M-AK2z7_cw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN7nxtMkicK6NL8x0o1FBS+zRBtbM4c=XrRhZXJK+X1j6Y_agw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Matogoro,

Thank you for your interest in filing the casual vacancies.
The call for submission with detail will be opened soon.
I encourage you to send your expression of interest.

Best Regards,
Christian D. Bope, PhD
Chair, Afrinic Board

On 11 May 2018 at 22:16, Matogoro Jabera <jaberamatogoro at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Bope,
>
> Congratulation for the election. I would like to express my interest for
> the casual vacancy appointment. I have been an active members in various
> technical forum including AFRINIC.
>
> I remained to be guided on the procedure and details on the same.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> MATOGORO Jabhera
> Assistant Lecturer & Coordinator - Microsoft Innovation Center, Tanzania
> College of Informatics and Virtual Education
> The University of Dodoma (www.udom.ac.tz)
> *IEEE Graduate Member: 93934185*
>
> On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 10:56 AM, Bope Christian <christianbope at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear AFRINIC community,
>>
>> There are currently four casual vacancies in the AFRINIC Board.  The
>> Board has the power, in terms of the Bylaws article 13.14, to fill the
>> casual vacancies for a period until the next AGMM.
>>
>> The Board intends to hold a 30-day call for expressions of interest from
>> people who wish to be considered for appointment.  Subsequent to the end of
>> the 30 day period, the Board will consider the expressions of interest and
>> take appropriate action.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Christian D. Bope, Ph.D
>> Chair, Afrinic Board
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>>
>
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From funga.roho at yandex.com  Sat May 12 12:12:46 2018
From: funga.roho at yandex.com (Kangamutima zabika Christophe)
Date: Sat, 12 May 2018 13:12:46 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 320, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1526126402.24438.community-discuss@afrinic.net>
References: <mailman.3.1526126402.24438.community-discuss@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <2915711526127166@web23o.yandex.ru>

Cher Christian BOPE,


Par la pr?sente je te pr?sente mes chaleureuses f?licitation panafricaines. Je ne doute pas d'un instant de ta comp?tence, de ton engagement et ton abn?gation pour ces hautes et nobles fonctions. Ma seule recommandation sera de rester ce baobab au milieu du village et comme le dit la devise de notre pays, travaillle en PAIX avec JUSTICE.

Muana wa africa
Mutoto wa africa

KANGAMUTIMA  ZABIKA




12.05.2018, 13:01, "community-discuss-request at afrinic.net" <community-discuss-request at afrinic.net>:
> Send Community-Discuss mailing list submissions to
> ????????community-discuss at afrinic.net
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> ????????https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> ????????community-discuss-request at afrinic.net
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> ????????community-discuss-owner at afrinic.net
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Community-Discuss digest..."
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> ???1. Re: [members-discuss] Board update on Governance Committee
> ??????Report (Mike Silber)
> ???2. Re: Filling of the casual vacancies (Matogoro Jabera)
> ???3. Re: Filling of the casual vacancies (Bope Domilongo Christian)
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 11 May 2018 11:07:38 -0700
> From: Mike Silber <silber.mike at gmail.com>
> To: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>,
> ????????AfriNIC Discuss <members-discuss at afrinic.net>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Board update on
> ????????Governance Committee Report
> Message-ID: <F9B51AB8-973A-43F6-A03D-3B2AF782C47D at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Andrew
>
> Let?s agree to disagree.
>
> Your comment does not parse.
>
> Mike
>
>> ?On 10 May 2018, at 05:53, Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com> wrote:
>>
>> ?Komi,
>>
>> ?Since the board has refused to table the actual GC report and let us see what is it in, sending it back and asking the GC for another one is pointless.
>>
>> ?Let the board disclose the first one then we can judge if anything more is needed
>>
>> ?Andrew
>>
>> ?Get Outlook for Android <https://aka.ms/ghei36>
>> ?From: Komi Elitcha <kmw.elitcha at gmail.com>
>> ?Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2018 2:13:50 PM
>> ?To: Noah
>> ?Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC; AfriNIC Discuss
>> ?Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Board update on Governance Committee Report
>>
>> ?Good day Noah, board and community,
>>
>> ?Thank you Noah for pointing out a range of issues and that the board should send back the report to GC and task them to come up with another clear, reducted and meaningful report that will not present legal and data protection issues.
>>
>> ?This should be done within a maximum of two weeks according to me.
>>
>> ?I humbly think the board owe this level of TRANSPARENCY to his community.
>>
>> ?Regards,
>>
>> ?2018-05-09 17:39 GMT+00:00 Noah <noah at neo.co.tz <mailto:noah at neo.co.tz>>:
>>
>> ?On Sun, May 6, 2018 at 10:53 PM, Abibu Ntahigiye <abibu.ntahigiye at gmail.com <mailto:abibu.ntahigiye at gmail.com>> wrote:
>> ??Dear Afrinic Members,
>>
>> ?The Board in March 2018, as per resolution 201803.391,
>> ??tasked the Governance Committee (GC) to convene an investigation on allegations made by a staff member. The GC was requested to define the Terms of Reference (TORs) for an independent investigation, and to appoint an investigation committee. The Board requested
>> ??the findings to be reported by 30 April 2018.
>>
>> ?The GC notified the community that they would deliver
>> ??the report by 4 May 2018, and has submitted the report to the Board on 2 May 2018. The Board acknowledged receipt of the report. The Board is going to thoroughly consider the report and recommendations thereof, and will share with the community applicable
>> ??actions and steps that will be taken in due course.
>>
>> ?The Board has also been advised that in considering
>> ??the report they need to be cognizant of issues of confidentiality and data protection.
>>
>> ?With regards to allegations made against certain Board
>> ??members, the Board can announce the following outcomes as derived from the report:
>>
>> ?That there was a violation of the Non-Disclosure Agreement
>> ??(NDA) and section 153 of the Companies Act 2001, by Mr Sunday Folayan.
>>
>> ?That there is no evidence whatsoever against Haitham
>> ??El Nakhal of having breached the terms of the NDA and/or section 153 of the Companies Act 2001.
>>
>> ?That the Investigation Committee (IC) is satisfied
>> ??that there was no evidence of harassment, bullying or intimidation by Board members.
>>
>> ?The Board will re-evaluate the interim Chair and Vice
>> ??Chair appointments that were made in resolution 201803.398.
>>
>> ?With regards to allegations made against certain members
>> ??of staff, the Board observed from the IC report that there may have been inappropriate behaviour on the part of certain staff members.
>>
>> ?The findings and recommendations related to staff matters
>> ??will be addressed through necessary processes.
>>
>> ?We appeal to the community to allow the Board time
>> ??to consider the report carefully, and provide feedback to the community no later than 31 July 2018 on the next steps and how the recommendations will be implemented.
>>
>> ?Kind regards
>> ?----
>>
>> ?Abibu R. Ntahigiye
>> ?Chair, Afrinic Board.
>>
>> ?_______________________________________________
>> ?Members-Discuss mailing list
>> ?Members-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Members-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> ?https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss>
>>
>> ?Dear Chairman,
>>
>> ?Thank you for your email and I would like to draw your attention to a number of issues that the Board's update on the yet to be disclosed GC report raises issues considering the contents of the document that found itself on this public mailing list regarding AfriNIC staff complains of harassment. On the whole, your message to the community appears to not clearly explain the real issues and seems to be an attempt to exonerate board members yet this was never about the entire board but rather complains about some specific members of the board and I will try to explain what I mean.
>>
>> ?1. ETHICS:
>>
>> ?It is obvious to this community that a member of the board shared private privileged information contrary to the Company Act section 153 as rightfully quoted in your email. This was even acknowledged by the director who happened to be the Chair of the board at the time. He has since resigned after the community and the membership held them to a higher ethical standard.
>>
>> ?We can see from incontrovertible evidence shared in the chat messages that both Chair and his Vice acted unethically engaged the CEO to privately discuss HR issues related to a member of staff that even the CEO was unaware of but yet also entertained it. To my understanding, good governance practices requires that the board should operate in such a way that it has nose-in, hands-out. In circumstance where the CEO allows some of the board members to have hand-in and nose-in, the CEO also should have escalated to the entire board. That is why there is a reason for separation of roles/powers in organizations.
>>
>> ?In my humble opinion, these private chats alone were further evidence of unethical behavior with all the hallmarks of work-place harassment if you consider the contents showed in those discussions;
>>
>> ?- the Directors undermined a member of staff who up to this point had been regarded as competent with unduly excessive and unfair criticism, deliberately constraining their ability to perform their duty
>> ?- the Directors made threats/comments about the staff that relate to the employees job security without foundation and this is a form of work-place harassment.
>> ?- the Directors engaged in the spread of malicious rumors about staff which is a form of work-place harassment
>>
>> ?It stands to reason that the former staff who shared private chats with the Chair with the complainant would have been at the brunt of similar activity resulting in the claims of a witch-hunt against them in the document circulated on the mailing list. As such there is no way we can claim that there was no harassment yet work-place harassment can manifest itself in quite a number of ways.
>>
>> ?2. HARRASSMENT:
>>
>> ?Let me also point out to this community and the board, what I believe would be additional forms of harassment both ethically and morally.
>> ?- Insulting someone
>> ?- Unfair treatment based on gender or language
>> ?- Other misuses of power or position
>>
>> ?Again, from the document that found itself on the mailing list, it was pretty obvious to all of us that inappropriate language was used by a member of staff and from your communication Mr.Chair, its pretty much determined that there was such form of harassment, which is why its always important for such HR issues to be resolved equitably when they arise so that staff do not feel unfairly treated. The staff are at the heart of the organization and AfriNIC needs to make sure that it will ensure a conducive working environment for all members of staff both male and female.
>>
>> ?I therefore call upon the board and management to sort out the looming human resource challenge facing AfriNIC today. We should never find ourselves in such situations considering the risks and reputation this has towards the organization.
>>
>> ?3. ACCOUNTABILITY:
>>
>> ?To conclude my submission, let me point out that the resolution passed by the board to task the GC to come up with Terms of Reference for the Investigation Committee in order to avoid conflict of interest on the past of the entire board was the proper thing to do and this reasoning should be followed to the end though I am surprised that the board tasked the GC to formulate the ToR, engage an IC but did not consider the privacy and confidentiality Implications of the process when it was clear that the community requested and expected an independent assessment of the situation and not a board view of the assessment.
>>
>> ?It is more surprising that the board did not anticipate the course of things and has now requested for more time to go through the report and so far we have not heard of any concrete actions or measures taken towards the staff issues. Despite the time that has passed, we are also not clearer than when the allegations were made save for the undeniable evidence that was shared.
>>
>> ?Its my personal recommendation that the board send back the report to the GC who should engage the IC to come up with a report that will not have legal implications to the organization due to the local Data Protection Laws. This should then be shared with the community and membership in my humble opinion.
>>
>> ?4. GOVERNANCE:
>>
>> ?In terms of governance going forward, I believe the community and the membership want to see measures in place that will ensure a safe and conducive working environment for the staff and the organization at large. The board still has great opportunity to sort out a whole range of issues including improvement of existing measures in place.
>>
>> ?This are my 2 cents dear community
>>
>> ?--
>> ?./noah
>>
>> ?_______________________________________________
>> ?Community-Discuss mailing list
>> ?Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> ?https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
>>
>> ?--
>> ?--KE
>>
>> ?_______________________________________________
>> ?Community-Discuss mailing list
>> ?Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> ?https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 12 May 2018 00:16:37 +0300
> From: Matogoro Jabera <jaberamatogoro at gmail.com>
> To: Bope Christian <christianbope at gmail.com>
> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Filling of the casual vacancies
> Message-ID:
> ????????<CANd6-7taE--xSL7f=yjqaqw+PhnPqsObvbc9BSc_M-AK2z7_cw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Dear Bope,
>
> Congratulation for the election. I would like to express my interest for
> the casual vacancy appointment. I have been an active members in various
> technical forum including AFRINIC.
>
> I remained to be guided on the procedure and details on the same.
>
> Regards,
>
> MATOGORO Jabhera
> Assistant Lecturer & Coordinator - Microsoft Innovation Center, Tanzania
> College of Informatics and Virtual Education
> The University of Dodoma (www.udom.ac.tz)
> *IEEE Graduate Member: 93934185*
>
> On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 10:56 AM, Bope Christian <christianbope at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> ?Dear AFRINIC community,
>>
>> ?There are currently four casual vacancies in the AFRINIC Board. The Board
>> ?has the power, in terms of the Bylaws article 13.14, to fill the casual
>> ?vacancies for a period until the next AGMM.
>>
>> ?The Board intends to hold a 30-day call for expressions of interest from
>> ?people who wish to be considered for appointment. Subsequent to the end of
>> ?the 30 day period, the Board will consider the expressions of interest and
>> ?take appropriate action.
>>
>> ?Best Regards,
>> ?Christian D. Bope, Ph.D
>> ?Chair, Afrinic Board
>>
>> ?_______________________________________________
>> ?Community-Discuss mailing list
>> ?Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> ?https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 12 May 2018 05:38:54 +0100
> From: Bope Domilongo Christian <christianbope at gmail.com>
> To: Matogoro Jabera <jaberamatogoro at gmail.com>
> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Filling of the casual vacancies
> Message-ID:
> ????????<CAN7nxtMkicK6NL8x0o1FBS+zRBtbM4c=XrRhZXJK+X1j6Y_agw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Dear Matogoro,
>
> Thank you for your interest in filing the casual vacancies.
> The call for submission with detail will be opened soon.
> I encourage you to send your expression of interest.
>
> Best Regards,
> Christian D. Bope, PhD
> Chair, Afrinic Board
>
> On 11 May 2018 at 22:16, Matogoro Jabera <jaberamatogoro at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> ?Dear Bope,
>>
>> ?Congratulation for the election. I would like to express my interest for
>> ?the casual vacancy appointment. I have been an active members in various
>> ?technical forum including AFRINIC.
>>
>> ?I remained to be guided on the procedure and details on the same.
>>
>> ?Regards,
>>
>> ?MATOGORO Jabhera
>> ?Assistant Lecturer & Coordinator - Microsoft Innovation Center, Tanzania
>> ?College of Informatics and Virtual Education
>> ?The University of Dodoma (www.udom.ac.tz)
>> ?*IEEE Graduate Member: 93934185*
>>
>> ?On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 10:56 AM, Bope Christian <christianbope at gmail.com>
>> ?wrote:
>>
>>> ?Dear AFRINIC community,
>>>
>>> ?There are currently four casual vacancies in the AFRINIC Board. The
>>> ?Board has the power, in terms of the Bylaws article 13.14, to fill the
>>> ?casual vacancies for a period until the next AGMM.
>>>
>>> ?The Board intends to hold a 30-day call for expressions of interest from
>>> ?people who wish to be considered for appointment. Subsequent to the end of
>>> ?the 30 day period, the Board will consider the expressions of interest and
>>> ?take appropriate action.
>>>
>>> ?Best Regards,
>>> ?Christian D. Bope, Ph.D
>>> ?Chair, Afrinic Board
>>>
>>> ?_______________________________________________
>>> ?Community-Discuss mailing list
>>> ?Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>>> ?https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 320, Issue 1
> *************************************************

--?
KANGAMUTIMA? ZABIKA
Contr?leur des douanes
Direction des Syst?mes et Technologies de l'Information
Direction G?n?rale des Douanes et
Accises
DRC




From funga.roho at yandex.com  Sat May 12 12:14:38 2018
From: funga.roho at yandex.com (Kangamutima zabika Christophe)
Date: Sat, 12 May 2018 13:14:38 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 320, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <mailman.3.1526126402.24438.community-discuss@afrinic.net>
References: <mailman.3.1526126402.24438.community-discuss@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <7184011526127278@web48g.yandex.ru>

Je congratule tout le nouveau comit?, les exhorte ? beaucoup d'efforts. Vous l'?quipage qui va nous faire traverser cette zone de turbulence afin que nous atterrissions en douceur.

KANGAMUTIMA ZABIKA



From virtual.borg at gmail.com  Sat May 12 19:00:45 2018
From: virtual.borg at gmail.com (Chevalier du Borg)
Date: Sat, 12 May 2018 19:00:45 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Board update on
 Governance Committee Report
In-Reply-To: <CAEqgTWaQWLbkLUTXjr7er2=_ENggyX8mK9S1RvBMjC_uQTR8CA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMhquhHwL9H_jk9f2tyB-FM7tfEJRq+e9_X57SHrv92MTo7v4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEqgTWaQWLbkLUTXjr7er2=_ENggyX8mK9S1RvBMjC_uQTR8CA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAH5aO8dP4xcMr7sEL=QdM6NUDqPuLFXfkFWPjEr6Fzg6jod+PA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear N. Noah


2018-05-09 17:39 GMT+00:00 Noah <noah at neo.co.tz>:

>
>
> *1. ETHICS: *
>
>
> We can see from incontrovertible evidence shared in the chat messages that
> both Chair and his Vice acted unethically engaged the CEO to privately
> discuss HR issues related to a member of staff that even the CEO was
> unaware of but yet also entertained it.
>



How is chair and vice chair converstion with CEO about a something they
think is critical to company unethetical? I think they have right to share
their concerns.


Not you or me know the full story about this.




>
> In my humble opinion, these private chats alone were further evidence of
> unethical behavior with all the hallmarks of work-place harassment if you
> consider the contents showed in those discussions;
>
> - the Directors undermined a member of staff who up to this point had been
> regarded as competent with unduly excessive and unfair criticism,
> deliberately constraining their ability to perform their duty
>



Again, not you or I or anyone can determine competence of said staff base
on the leak. You must also know of another board member at the time who
report on this list that he is willing to testify to investigation and "it
will not be on the staff's side".




> - the Directors made threats/comments about the staff that relate to the
> employees job security without foundation and this is a form of work-place
> harassment.
>


Maybe instead of jump to conclusion, you can ask what the chair and vice
chair foundation was.  Since none of us work at company or are board, we
don't know that.




>
> *2. HARRASSMENT:*
>
> Let me also point out to this community and the board, what I believe
> would be additional forms of harassment both ethically and morally.
> - Insulting someone
> - Unfair treatment based on gender or language
> - Other misuses of power or position
>
> Again, from the document that found itself on the mailing list, it was
> pretty obvious to all of us that  inappropriate language was used by a
> member of staff and from your communication
>


That should be responsiblility of HR and ultimely CEO no? If you want make
this an issue, then you must also call for their resignation for not handle
this internal staff harrassement leading to it being escalate to board and
now in this court of public opinion (without all the facts)


While I have no problem with board related parts of report being disclose
her, all parts about staff must remain confidential and internal to AFRINIC.




>
> I therefore call upon the board and management to sort out the looming
> human resource challenge facing AfriNIC today.
>


Wait!!!! will that not be interfering? Is that not job of CEO and HR?



>
>
> *3. ACCOUNTABILITY:*
>
> To conclude my submission, let me point out that the resolution passed by
> the board to task the GC to come up with Terms of Reference for the
> Investigation Committee in order to avoid conflict of interest on the past
> of the entire board was the proper thing to do and this reasoning should be
> followed to the end though I am surprised that the board tasked the GC to
> formulate the ToR, engage an IC but did not consider the privacy and
> confidentiality Implications of the process when it was clear that the
> community requested and expected an independent assessment of the situation
> and not a board view of the assessment.
>


Need for accountability must not exceed need to keep any confidential staff
issue in that report private.



>
> It is more surprising that the board did not anticipate the course of
> things and has now requested for more time to go through the report  and so
> far we have not heard of any concrete actions or measures taken towards the
> staff issues.
>



Wait!!! ... do you want board to give us concrete actions to solve staff
issue? Is that not CEO and HR job?





>
>
> Its my personal recommendation that the board send back the report to the
> GC who should engage the IC to come up with a report that will not have
> legal implications to the organization due to the local Data Protection
> Laws. This should then be shared with the community and membership in my
> humble opinion.
>


You and I agree on this conclusion.  But unfortunate, since both issues are
link very tightly, I suspect some member of this community will always be
unhappy with that outcome.



Maybe, the board may be cover up something
Maybe, management may be cover up something

We dont know. Trust must start somewhere. If we cannot trust them, then
maybe time to replace the hierachie with people that we can trust so they
can do the work.




>
> *4. GOVERNANCE:*
>
> In terms of governance going forward, I believe the community and  the
> membership want to see measures in place that will ensure a safe and
> conducive working environment for the staff and the organization at large.
> The board still has great opportunity to sort out a whole range of issues
> including improvement of existing measures in place.
>



For the no. 3 time. That is job of CEO and HR. CEO is responsable for that
to this community, not the board. Board' job is to judge whether that is
the case.



-- 
Borg le Chevalier
___________________________________
"Common sense is what tells us the world is flat"
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From virtual.borg at gmail.com  Sat May 12 19:03:53 2018
From: virtual.borg at gmail.com (Chevalier du Borg)
Date: Sat, 12 May 2018 19:03:53 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Filling of the casual vacancies
In-Reply-To: <CANd6-7taE--xSL7f=yjqaqw+PhnPqsObvbc9BSc_M-AK2z7_cw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <D2DB0AF7-BA39-4DBB-83A1-B9D23182C0F6@gmail.com>
 <CANd6-7taE--xSL7f=yjqaqw+PhnPqsObvbc9BSc_M-AK2z7_cw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAH5aO8dRW24fBHcnVQpW7-FSbcj3haaEiZe8hiRrBWnDkVgq5Q@mail.gmail.com>

2018-05-11 23:16 GMT+02:00 Matogoro Jabera <jaberamatogoro at gmail.com>:

>
> Congratulation for the election. I would like to express my interest for
> the casual vacancy appointment. I have been an active members in various
> technical forum including AFRINIC.
>


Dear M. Matogoro


How does the above qualify you to seat on a board of director?




>
> I remained to be guided on the procedure and details on the same.
>
>
> Regards,
>
> MATOGORO Jabhera
> Assistant Lecturer & Coordinator - Microsoft Innovation Center, Tanzania
> College of Informatics and Virtual Education
> The University of Dodoma (www.udom.ac.tz)
> *IEEE Graduate Member: 93934185*
>
> On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 10:56 AM, Bope Christian <christianbope at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear AFRINIC community,
>>
>> There are currently four casual vacancies in the AFRINIC Board.  The
>> Board has the power, in terms of the Bylaws article 13.14, to fill the
>> casual vacancies for a period until the next AGMM.
>>
>> The Board intends to hold a 30-day call for expressions of interest from
>> people who wish to be considered for appointment.  Subsequent to the end of
>> the 30 day period, the Board will consider the expressions of interest and
>> take appropriate action.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Christian D. Bope, Ph.D
>> Chair, Afrinic Board
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>


-- 
Borg le Chevalier
___________________________________
"Common sense is what tells us the world is flat"
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From virtual.borg at gmail.com  Sat May 12 19:14:39 2018
From: virtual.borg at gmail.com (Chevalier du Borg)
Date: Sat, 12 May 2018 19:14:39 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Community-Discuss Digest, Vol 318, Issue 1
In-Reply-To: <1198841525995972@web28g.yandex.ru>
References: <mailman.3.1525953601.8819.community-discuss@afrinic.net>
 <1198841525995972@web28g.yandex.ru>
Message-ID: <CAH5aO8eTUnaOHWt+y2F3nsTM2pG26_6ke-+hNkDmD3JEjSnUCA@mail.gmail.com>

2018-05-11 1:46 GMT+02:00 Kangamutima zabika Christophe <
funga.roho at yandex.com>:

>
>
> Andrew,
>
> If you were a true African you will not give you all the trouble you've
> been given these 2 weeks to torpedo any effort to re-assemble the
> community, as you did.
>
> You pretend to be African, because you live in Africa, you work in Africa
> but you have nothing of the soul of this continent. All your interventions
> are in the direction of mercenaries and an intelligence to destroy to what
> has been dearly designed.
>


He don't need to pretend. He don't need to prove his africanicit?
You forget Andrew is born in Africa not just live and work here


Even though I find many of his intervention here terrible, I find your own
above to be raciste and deserving of sanction from co-chair.


>
> But we true Africans, we will take the evil that you suffer in charge, we
> will not tire to purify you.
>


No racist, hateful language like that is NOT spirit of true African. You
need help and deliverance from intolerance.
True African can hate your action, but still show respect.



>
>
> You will not succeed in breaking the symbiosis that exists in this
> community. Me personally, I will get rid of all the poison that you
> inoculate in your messages arrogant, discourteous and nauseating ..
>


And you just elevate the dirtiness 1000.000 time by making this a personal,
racist xenophobic attack? If you are finding people like Andrew that are
divisive, look in mirror tomorrow morning.



-- 
Borg le Chevalier
___________________________________
"Common sense is what tells us the world is flat"
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From christianbope at gmail.com  Mon May 14 06:13:38 2018
From: christianbope at gmail.com (Bope Christian)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2018 07:13:38 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Joint AFRINIC/RIPE NCC Board meeting
Message-ID: <A62C6DB3-0613-4269-9F79-D267224A7FD7@gmail.com>

Dear AFRINIC members and community,

On Friday 11 May 2018, the AFRINIC Board of Directors held an meeting with the RIPE NCC Board of Directors.

We discussed the following topics:

        ? Revenue models considering IPv4 exhaustion
        ? Governance and transparency
        ? Activity planning process
        ? Data protection and GDPR compliance
        ? Policy development process
        ? Dealing with suspicious resource applications

Best Regards,
Christian D. Bope, Ph.D
Chairman, Afrinic Board





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From dndannang at gmail.com  Mon May 14 06:38:40 2018
From: dndannang at gmail.com (DANIEL NANGHAKA)
Date: Mon, 14 May 2018 09:38:40 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Joint AFRINIC/RIPE NCC Board meeting
In-Reply-To: <A62C6DB3-0613-4269-9F79-D267224A7FD7@gmail.com>
References: <A62C6DB3-0613-4269-9F79-D267224A7FD7@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD4W+iOMffQhOEnm0TbVDKsCzQcZ4sfmZvnbGdz8TNB_6-ccQA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Christain,

Great that you held the meeting with RIPE NCC Board, What was the outcome
of the meeting? Is there a meeting report, in case there is a meeting
report please share a link to the report.

Thank you

Daniel
?

On 14 May 2018 at 09:13, Bope Christian <christianbope at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear AFRINIC members and community,
>
> On Friday 11 May 2018, the AFRINIC Board of Directors held an meeting with
> the RIPE NCC Board of Directors.
>
> We discussed the following topics:
>
>         ? Revenue models considering IPv4 exhaustion
>         ? Governance and transparency
>         ? Activity planning process
>         ? Data protection and GDPR compliance
>         ? Policy development process
>         ? Dealing with suspicious resource applications
>
> Best Regards,
> Christian D. Bope, Ph.D
>
> Chairman, Afrinic Board
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>


-- 

Regards
Nanghaka Daniel K.
Executive Director - ILICIT Africa / Chair - FOSSFA / Community Lead - ISOC
Uganda Chapter / Geo4Africa Lead / Organising Team - FOSS4G2018
Mobile +256 772 898298 (Uganda)
Skype: daniel.nanghaka

----------------------------------------- *"Working for Africa" *
-----------------------------------------
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From virtual.borg at gmail.com  Tue May 15 13:06:48 2018
From: virtual.borg at gmail.com (Chevalier du Borg)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2018 17:06:48 +0400
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Divided Community: we cannot fix a problem
	which we deny
Message-ID: <CAH5aO8eW6wd-rM4SEn8=S5a1xbnZXrybVf=0M9y9EotnvC77dQ@mail.gmail.com>

I almost fall off my chair when listening to remote stream of AIS Dakar
meeting when I hear this statement

"THERE IS NO DIVISION WITHIN THE COMMUNITY"  - I think even 2 times said on
microphone.

I feel very sad because I see different. This community is divided.
Healing, progress and community-development cannot happen if we deny to
accept the problem

But rather than force my own opinion, I will like to ask the AFRINIC  to
include some questions/poll in the planned survey to gather community
opinion on the health of our community.

Thanks

-- 
Borg le Chevalier
___________________________________
"Common sense is what tells us the world is flat"
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From virtual.borg at gmail.com  Tue May 15 13:16:47 2018
From: virtual.borg at gmail.com (Chevalier du Borg)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2018 17:16:47 +0400
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Board update on Governance Committee report
In-Reply-To: <7B738CE7-5203-484D-913E-EE017FB07D1E@yahoo.fr>
References: <CAMhquhHUw5omzb2RxWz5RmkLqwHiwUwPnuBQLhYcBXMLyzcPBw@mail.gmail.com>
 <7B738CE7-5203-484D-913E-EE017FB07D1E@yahoo.fr>
Message-ID: <CAH5aO8dhZpxeenO-cAoxdD_62x2QZNRfTiSPZx+f1Er+uSpF4Q@mail.gmail.com>

Le mer. 9 mai 2018 ? 12:14, Gregoire EHOUMI via Community-Discuss <
community-discuss at afrinic.net> a ?crit :

>
> Most members of community have read that attachment document, THE COMPLAIN
> FOR HARASSMENT IN WORK ENVIRONMENT AT AFRINIC.
>
How can you said that there was no evidence of HARASSMENT ?
>
> Please share with us a contrary information, if you have.
>



Let me write this statement below


"M. Ehoumi try several times in Dakar to harrass other young innocent girl
who came to AFNOG for first time to learn."

Just because I write it does not make it true.
I can claim that you did it to me too, and show as evidence that you did it
to another person


An investigation commitee, independent had send a report. You refuse it
because you dont like what it say?

Everyone is still innocent until prove guilty
Accusation/Allegation is not guilt

If you have information to contrary, please share with board and GC


Since everyone don't trust both board, and GC. Maybe can Legal Advisor make
statement to say that having seen full report, the board statement in line
with that report?






>
> Thanks,
>
> Gr?goire EHOUMI
>
> Le 6 mai 2018 ? 19:55, Abibu Ntahigiye <abibu.ntahigiye at gmail.com> a
> ?crit :
>
> Dear Afrinic Community,
>
> The Board in March 2018, as per resolution 201803.391, tasked the
> Governance Committee (GC) to convene an investigation on allegations made
> by a staff member. The GC was requested to define the Terms of Reference
> (TORs) for an independent investigation, and to appoint an investigation
> committee.  The Board requested the findings to be reported by 30 April
> 2018.
>
> The GC notified the community that they would deliver the report by 4 May
> 2018, and has submitted the report to the Board on 2 May 2018. The Board
> acknowledged receipt of the report. The Board is going to thoroughly
> consider the report and recommendations thereof, and will share with the
> community applicable actions and steps that will be taken in due course.
>
> The Board has also been advised that in considering the report they need
> to be cognizant of issues of confidentiality and data protection.
>
> With regards to allegations made against certain Board members, the Board
> can announce the following outcomes as derived from  the report:
>
>
>
>    - That there was a violation of the Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA) and
>     section 153 of the Companies Act 2001, by Mr Sunday Folayan.
>
>
>
>    - That there is no evidence whatsoever against Haitham El Nakhal of
>    having breached the terms of the NDA and/or section 153 of the Companies
>    Act 2001.
>
>
>
>    - That the Investigation Committee (IC) is satisfied that there was no
>    evidence of harassment, bullying or intimidation by Board members.
>
>
> The Board will re-evaluate the interim Chair and Vice Chair appointments
> that were made in resolution 201803.398.
>
> With regards to allegations made against certain members of staff, the
> Board observed from the IC report  that there may have been inappropriate
> behaviour on the part of certain staff members.
>
> The findings and recommendations related to staff matters will be
> addressed through necessary processes.
>
> We appeal to the community to allow the Board time to consider the report
> carefully, and provide feedback to the community no later than 31 July 2018
> on the next steps and how the recommendations will be implemented.
>
> Kind regards
> ----
> Abibu R. Ntahigiye
> Chair, Afrinic Board.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>


-- 
Borg le Chevalier
___________________________________
"Common sense is what tells us the world is flat"
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From noah at neo.co.tz  Tue May 15 19:36:08 2018
From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah)
Date: Tue, 15 May 2018 22:36:08 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Board update on
 Governance Committee Report
In-Reply-To: <CAH5aO8dP4xcMr7sEL=QdM6NUDqPuLFXfkFWPjEr6Fzg6jod+PA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMhquhHwL9H_jk9f2tyB-FM7tfEJRq+e9_X57SHrv92MTo7v4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEqgTWaQWLbkLUTXjr7er2=_ENggyX8mK9S1RvBMjC_uQTR8CA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH5aO8dP4xcMr7sEL=QdM6NUDqPuLFXfkFWPjEr6Fzg6jod+PA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqgTWa9QdiMjZNe9gjnyJaUnF126q21it_Smy=BH_TODOjTCQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, May 12, 2018 at 10:00 PM, Chevalier du Borg <virtual.borg at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear N. Noah
>
>
Dear Chevalier,


> 2018-05-09 17:39 GMT+00:00 Noah <noah at neo.co.tz>:
>
>>
>>
>> *1. ETHICS: *
>>
>>
>> We can see from incontrovertible evidence shared in the chat messages
>> that both Chair and his Vice acted unethically engaged the CEO to privately
>> discuss HR issues related to a member of staff that even the CEO was
>> unaware of but yet also entertained it.
>>
>
>
>
> How is chair and vice chair converstion with CEO about a something they
> think is critical to company unethetical? I think they have right to share
> their concerns.
>


I think the board has a right to share concerns about the general
performance of the organization and would only hold the CEO accountable in
the event that they though, the organization is not operating in a manner
the board wished based on sets of duties (KPI) assigned to the CEO by the
board.

First of all, AfriNIC does have official methods of communications. In the
case of the board, I assume they tend to officially communicate on AfriNIC
matters either via their official emails or perhaps regular conference
calls. I am not sure if whatsapp messaging is also official form of
communication on any matter concerning AfriNIC board business. In light of
this, whatever concerns directors of the board had should have been
communicated officially to the CEO via official means. This way, you avoid
rookie incidents similar to the ones that happened whereby what was private
chats conversations become public.

And If you are going to attempt to gauge the performance of a
manager/staff, do it based on their performance which means that there has
to be some (KPI's) in place that you can base upon to objectively measure
such performances and in case of under-performance, make it a matter of
concern (warning) to the particular staff member so that they can improve.
This is certainly not individual directors of board business but the CEO
and HR responsibility. This way you avoid being subjective and personal but
rather objective on matters of staff performance.

Third, one manager running two different departments is obviously
challenging and basically sets up the manager in question up for failure
and as such you cant claim they are under performing at the time when they
were managing two separate departments. IMHO, when a vacancy arises in a
department especially a management role, most organizations HR departments
immediately seek to fill the vacant position as best practice in corporate
governance and management.



>
>
> Not you or me know the full story about this.
>


There was a document posted on this list by some anonymous person and there
have been a series of similar emails related to human resource challenges
with staff turnover etc posted on this community mailing list if you have
time to check the archives.


>
>
>
>>
>> In my humble opinion, these private chats alone were further evidence of
>> unethical behavior with all the hallmarks of work-place harassment if you
>> consider the contents showed in those discussions;
>>
>> - the Directors undermined a member of staff who up to this point had
>> been regarded as competent with unduly excessive and unfair criticism,
>> deliberately constraining their ability to perform their duty
>>
>
>
>
> Again, not you or I or anyone can determine competence of said staff base
> on the leak. You must also know of another board member at the time who
> report on this list that he is willing to testify to investigation and "it
> will not be on the staff's side".
>


I agree, we cant determine the competence of said staff but neither can the
directors have done the same unless of the directors are also now involved
in day to day operations of the organization.

Who evaluates staff performance, is it the CEO/HR or the directors of the
board?

In any case, even if there was some concerns, its the entire board that is
vested with the powers of determining the management of the organization as
per as per section 15.1(ii) of the bylaws.

That means, individual directors cant meddle in the operations of the
organization.



>
>
>
>
>> - the Directors made threats/comments about the staff that relate to the
>> employees job security without foundation and this is a form of work-place
>> harassment.
>>
>
>
> Maybe instead of jump to conclusion, you can ask what the chair and vice
> chair foundation was.  Since none of us work at company or are board, we
> don't know that.
>


My comment is based on the reaction of the member of staff at the time of
accessing private information questing their performance which is why in
their letter to the board, they claimed among other things,  "moral
harassment" and the organization not being favorable to women etc.... its a
sensitive matter and must be handled with great care else staff will
conclude they are being witch-hunted after all they have never been
subjected to warnings or told they were under-performing....

Just my view as an employee some where too..




>
>
>
>
>>
>> *2. HARRASSMENT:*
>>
>> Let me also point out to this community and the board, what I believe
>> would be additional forms of harassment both ethically and morally.
>> - Insulting someone
>> - Unfair treatment based on gender or language
>> - Other misuses of power or position
>>
>> Again, from the document that found itself on the mailing list, it was
>> pretty obvious to all of us that  inappropriate language was used by a
>> member of staff and from your communication
>>
>
>
> That should be responsiblility of HR and ultimely CEO no?
>


Certainly and measure must be put in place to contain work-place harassment
of any form and those who harass other must be disciplined accordingly.



> If you want make this an issue, then you must also call for their
> resignation for not handle this internal staff harrassement leading to it
> being escalate to board and now in this court of public opinion (without
> all the facts)
>


The board is objectively empowered as per sections 15.1(ii)  to deal with
all management and affairs of the organization.



>
> While I have no problem with board related parts of report being disclose
> her, all parts about staff must remain confidential and internal to AFRINIC.
>
>
>
>
>>
>> I therefore call upon the board and management to sort out the looming
>> human resource challenge facing AfriNIC today.
>>
>
>
> Wait!!!! will that not be interfering? Is that not job of CEO and HR?
>



Not necessarily, the board is objectively empowered as per sections
15.1(ii)  to deal with all management and affairs of the organization.They
will put the CEO to task as a board.


>
>
>
>>
>>
>> *3. ACCOUNTABILITY:*
>>
>> To conclude my submission, let me point out that the resolution passed by
>> the board to task the GC to come up with Terms of Reference for the
>> Investigation Committee in order to avoid conflict of interest on the past
>> of the entire board was the proper thing to do and this reasoning should be
>> followed to the end though I am surprised that the board tasked the GC to
>> formulate the ToR, engage an IC but did not consider the privacy and
>> confidentiality Implications of the process when it was clear that the
>> community requested and expected an independent assessment of the situation
>> and not a board view of the assessment.
>>
>
>
> Need for accountability must not exceed need to keep any confidential
> staff issue in that report private.
>


Acknowledge...



>
>
>>
>> It is more surprising that the board did not anticipate the course of
>> things and has now requested for more time to go through the report  and so
>> far we have not heard of any concrete actions or measures taken towards the
>> staff issues.
>>
>
>
>
> Wait!!! ... do you want board to give us concrete actions to solve staff
> issue? Is that not CEO and HR job?
>


Not necessarily, the board is objectively empowered as per sections
15.1(ii)  to deal with all management and affairs of the organization. They
already stated that some appropriate measure will be taken in this regard
and we shall know by 31st of July from the last communication from the
board.




>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> Its my personal recommendation that the board send back the report to the
>> GC who should engage the IC to come up with a report that will not have
>> legal implications to the organization due to the local Data Protection
>> Laws. This should then be shared with the community and membership in my
>> humble opinion.
>>
>
>
> You and I agree on this conclusion.  But unfortunate, since both issues
> are link very tightly, I suspect some member of this community will always
> be unhappy with that outcome.\
>


Acknowledge...


>
>
> Maybe, the board may be cover up something
> Maybe, management may be cover up something
>
We dont know. Trust must start somewhere. If we cannot trust them, then
> maybe time to replace the hierachie with people that we can trust so they
> can do the work.
>


Just maybe but then transparency is very important too..



>
>
>
>
>>
>> *4. GOVERNANCE:*
>>
>> In terms of governance going forward, I believe the community and  the
>> membership want to see measures in place that will ensure a safe and
>> conducive working environment for the staff and the organization at large.
>> The board still has great opportunity to sort out a whole range of issues
>> including improvement of existing measures in place.
>>
>
>
>
> For the no. 3 time. That is job of CEO and HR. CEO is responsable for that
> to this community, not the board. Board' job is to judge whether that is
> the case.
>


In complete agreement and the board's judgement is objectively based on the
powers vested to them by the bylaws in terms of the management of the
organization.



>
>
> --
> Borg le Chevalier
> ___________________________________
> "Common sense is what tells us the world is flat"
>



-- 
*./noah*
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From virtual.borg at gmail.com  Wed May 16 03:54:45 2018
From: virtual.borg at gmail.com (Chevalier du Borg)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2018 07:54:45 +0400
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Board update on
 Governance Committee Report
In-Reply-To: <CAEqgTWa9QdiMjZNe9gjnyJaUnF126q21it_Smy=BH_TODOjTCQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMhquhHwL9H_jk9f2tyB-FM7tfEJRq+e9_X57SHrv92MTo7v4A@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEqgTWaQWLbkLUTXjr7er2=_ENggyX8mK9S1RvBMjC_uQTR8CA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAH5aO8dP4xcMr7sEL=QdM6NUDqPuLFXfkFWPjEr6Fzg6jod+PA@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEqgTWa9QdiMjZNe9gjnyJaUnF126q21it_Smy=BH_TODOjTCQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAH5aO8dEjJinS0f1ma8L2eUKHWPsQbN64bt-Z7LuwsftA=DF1Q@mail.gmail.com>

Le mar. 15 mai 2018 ? 23:36, Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> a ?crit :

>
>
> On Sat, May 12, 2018 at 10:00 PM, Chevalier du Borg <
> virtual.borg at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear N. Noah
>>
>>
> Dear Chevalier,
>
>
>> 2018-05-09 17:39 GMT+00:00 Noah <noah at neo.co.tz>:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *1. ETHICS: *
>>>
>>>
>>> We can see from incontrovertible evidence shared in the chat messages
>>> that both Chair and his Vice acted unethically engaged the CEO to privately
>>> discuss HR issues related to a member of staff that even the CEO was
>>> unaware of but yet also entertained it.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> How is chair and vice chair converstion with CEO about a something they
>> think is critical to company unethetical? I think they have right to share
>> their concerns.
>>
>
>
> I think the board has a right to share concerns about the general
> performance of the organization and would only hold the CEO accountable in
> the event that they though, the organization is not operating in a manner
> the board wished based on sets of duties (KPI) assigned to the CEO by the
> board.
>
> First of all, AfriNIC does have official methods of communications. In the
> case of the board, I assume they tend to officially communicate on AfriNIC
> matters either via their official emails or perhaps regular conference
> calls. I am not sure if whatsapp messaging is also official form of
> communication on any matter concerning AfriNIC board business.
>


That's incorrect. Not all performance communication need an official
channel. Actually the best effective ones are informal -- talk after a
meeting or even Whatsapp (especially since they live in different
countries).
The only thing wrong was that that conversation was share with other people.




> In light of this, whatever concerns directors of the board had should have
> been communicated officially to the CEO via official means.
>


This is incorrect.  HR 101: you don't go official and formal without having
tried informal.



> This way, you avoid rookie incidents similar to the ones that happened
> whereby what was private chats conversations become public.
>


I dont know about rookie. It was very very poor judgement on part of ex
chair.



>
> And If you are going to attempt to gauge the performance of a
> manager/staff, do it based on their performance which means that there has
> to be some (KPI's) in place that you can base upon to objectively measure
> such performances and in case of under-performance, make it a matter of
> concern (warning) to the particular staff member so that they can improve.
> This is certainly not individual directors of board business but the CEO
> and HR responsibility.
>


We on same point here.



> This way you avoid being subjective and personal but rather objective on
> matters of staff performance.
>


At senior level of management, performance is not just about duty and KPI.
It about behavior that anyone can see. If board observe behavior that is
disturbing, the chair have right to discuss with CEO. There is lot and lot
of background information you and me don't know.



>
> Third, one manager running two different departments is obviously
> challenging and basically sets up the manager in question up for failure
> and as such you cant claim they are under performing at the time when they
> were managing two separate departments.
>


Someone can underpeform or overperform while running 3 departments. It is
job of CEO to address that with HR. For you to judge performance, you will
need to see complete appraisal of these staff throughout their career with
the company. CEO has access of that, board might have. You and I do not.




> IMHO, when a vacancy arises in a department especially a management role,
> most organizations HR departments immediately seek to fill the vacant
> position as best practice in corporate  governance and management.
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> Not you or me know the full story about this.
>>
>
>
> There was a document posted on this list by some anonymous person and
> there have been a series of similar emails related to human resource
> challenges with staff turnover etc posted on this community mailing list if
> you have time to check the archives.
>


I have check. Sure they are. And it is not board who has responsibility for
HR issues. It is CEO
Those challenge alleged in the leaks are not cause by board members. That
turnover was not cause by board members.
We don't know if board try to address that issue. It might be confidential,
but if they failed there, that is failure at one of their key
responsibility.



>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> In my humble opinion, these private chats alone were further evidence of
>>> unethical behavior with all the hallmarks of work-place harassment if you
>>> consider the contents showed in those discussions;
>>>
>>> - the Directors undermined a member of staff who up to this point had
>>> been regarded as competent with unduly excessive and unfair criticism,
>>> deliberately constraining their ability to perform their duty
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Again, not you or I or anyone can determine competence of said staff base
>> on the leak. You must also know of another board member at the time who
>> report on this list that he is willing to testify to investigation and "it
>> will not be on the staff's side".
>>
>
>
> I agree, we cant determine the competence of said staff but neither can
> the directors have done the same unless of the directors are also now
> involved in day to day operations of the organization.
>


Ariana Huffington (board member of Uber) could not have determine
that Travis Kalanick (CEO) had created a toxic, sexist culture at Uber?
Any board that cannot detect a bad culture is a failed board.


>
> Who evaluates staff performance, is it the CEO/HR or the directors of the
> board?
>
> In any case, even if there was some concerns, its the entire board that is
> vested with the powers of determining the management of the organization as
> per as per section 15.1(ii) of the bylaws.
>
> That means, individual directors cant meddle in the operations of the
> organization.
>


I submit this was legitime informal performance conversation between chair,
vice and CEO on their observations. It is bad judgement on part of ex-chair
to have shared them. Such conversations go on all the time in many
companies and boards. You don't hear of them because they don't leak or are
not shared in writing.


>
> My comment is based on the reaction of the member of staff at the time of
> accessing private information questing their performance which is why in
> their letter to the board, they claimed among other things,  "moral
> harassment" and the organization not being favorable to women etc.... its a
> sensitive matter and must be handled with great care else staff will
> conclude they are being witch-hunted after all they have never been
> subjected to warnings or told they were under-performing....
>
> Just my view as an employee some where too..
>


AFRINIC HR should have the final record of all of these problemes right? So
will CEO
Everything claimed should have been investigate by independent
investigator. They just gave their report stating no wrong doing on part of
board (except the obvious for which M. Folayan has resigned).

I am for release of redacted report where all parts relate to internal
function of company be kept private.



>>> *2. HARRASSMENT:*
>>>
>>> Let me also point out to this community and the board, what I believe
>>> would be additional forms of harassment both ethically and morally.
>>> - Insulting someone
>>> - Unfair treatment based on gender or language
>>> - Other misuses of power or position
>>>
>>> Again, from the document that found itself on the mailing list, it was
>>> pretty obvious to all of us that  inappropriate language was used by a
>>> member of staff and from your communication
>>>
>>
>>
>> That should be responsiblility of HR and ultimely CEO no?
>>
>
>
> Certainly and measure must be put in place to contain work-place
> harassment of any form and those who harass other must be disciplined
> accordingly.
>
>
>
>> If you want make this an issue, then you must also call for their
>> resignation for not handle this internal staff harrassement leading to it
>> being escalate to board and now in this court of public opinion (without
>> all the facts)
>>
>
>
> The board is objectively empowered as per sections 15.1(ii)  to deal with
> all management and affairs of the organization.
>
>
>
>>
>> While I have no problem with board related parts of report being disclose
>> her, all parts about staff must remain confidential and internal to AFRINIC.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I therefore call upon the board and management to sort out the looming
>>> human resource challenge facing AfriNIC today.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Wait!!!! will that not be interfering? Is that not job of CEO and HR?
>>
>
>
>
> Not necessarily, the board is objectively empowered as per sections
> 15.1(ii)  to deal with all management and affairs of the organization.They
> will put the CEO to task as a board.
>


I am happy we agree on this issue.
And that intervention is usually informal ? informal ? informal (( things
don't change or crises)) ? formal



-- 
Borg le Chevalier
___________________________________
"Common sense is what tells us the world is flat"
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From mje at posix.co.za  Wed May 16 14:23:19 2018
From: mje at posix.co.za (Mark Elkins)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2018 16:23:19 +0200
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: [Dnssec-icann-workshops] REMINDER: Call
 for Participation -- ICANN DNSSEC Workshop at ICANN62 Panama City,
 Panama - June 25, 2018
In-Reply-To: <7b74da3209904cb6a76bedc3748e0304@cira.ca>
References: <7b74da3209904cb6a76bedc3748e0304@cira.ca>
Message-ID: <f112a4d2-be32-e636-96a6-02ef9bcb5174@posix.co.za>

If you are heading to Panama City for ICANN62.... please take a read.



-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: 	[Dnssec-icann-workshops] REMINDER: Call for Participation --
ICANN DNSSEC Workshop at ICANN62 Panama City, Panama - June 25, 2018
Date: 	Wed, 9 May 2018 14:47:13 +0000



Hi All!

?

*****Apologies there was some earlier problems with the mailing list so
if you have submitted prior to today we may have not received the
request. Would you please resubmit to the list and we will be sure to
get a response to you as soon as possible? Thank you. *****

?

The next ICANN DNSSEC Workshop will be on Monday, June 25, 2018 in
Panama City, Panama.? If you are interested in participating, please
send a brief (1-2 sentence) description of your proposed presentation to
dnssec-panamacity at isoc.org <mailto:dnssec-panamacity at isoc.org>? by **18
May 2018**

?

The committee is also thinking of having a panel on the
Post-KSK-Rollover.? We?d like to see if anyone from the DNSSEC community
can identify ways that can help end users have a better idea of what
they should look for and how they might be able to know if the KSK
rollover has or has not effected them & their use of DNS (i.e. 1 second
after the change).

?

Thanks,

Jack

?

*REMINDER:*Call for Participation -- ICANN DNSSEC Workshop at ICANN62,
Panama City, Panama.? June 25, 2018

?

The DNSSEC Deployment Initiative and the Internet Society Deploy360
Programme, in cooperation with the ICANN Security and Stability Advisory
Committee (SSAC), are planning a DNSSEC Workshop during the ICANN62
meeting held from 25-28 June 2018 in Panama City, Panama.??The DNSSEC
Workshop has been a part of ICANN meetings for several years and has
provided a forum for both experienced and new people to meet, present
and discuss current and future DNSSEC deployments.??For reference, the
most recent session was held at the ICANN Community Forum in San Juan,
Puerto Rico on 14 March 2018. The presentations and transcripts are
available
at:????https://61.schedule.icann.org/meetings/647563[61.schedule.icann.org]
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__61.schedule.icann.org_meetings_647563&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=_qSa12UaM5Nl6sbpmBZnYyeUu-qJt2ubgQJechcqldM&m=EkbdZhJaG6g8IsCHUP9deVxL5rnsERV7Rncb_duS0nY&s=ae0XkO0VHTZ_ZSnNkM3_02SZ669fETpIa21Ec9MmWFw&e=>,https://61.schedule.icann.org/meetings/647564[61.schedule.icann.org]
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__61.schedule.icann.org_meetings_647564&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=_qSa12UaM5Nl6sbpmBZnYyeUu-qJt2ubgQJechcqldM&m=EkbdZhJaG6g8IsCHUP9deVxL5rnsERV7Rncb_duS0nY&s=h7uqwBqts5y2W14RMbkL4d-qxvgvmfvpmTct11KuY1o&e=>,
and?https://61.schedule.icann.org/meetings/647565[61.schedule.icann.org]
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__61.schedule.icann.org_meetings_647565&d=DwMGaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=_qSa12UaM5Nl6sbpmBZnYyeUu-qJt2ubgQJechcqldM&m=EkbdZhJaG6g8IsCHUP9deVxL5rnsERV7Rncb_duS0nY&s=Tg10_nIPbO9mQq2Ephk2zcpzjk-YJkw43OsXtGyrRxw&e=>.
?

??

The DNSSEC Workshop Program Committee is developing a 3-hour
program.??Proposals will be considered for the following topic areas and
included if space permits.??In addition, we welcome suggestions for
additional topics either for inclusion in the ICANN62 workshop, or for
consideration for future workshops.

?

1.??DNSSEC Activities Panel (Regional and global)

For this panel, we are seeking participation from those who have been
involved in DNSSEC deployment in the region and also from those who have
not deployed DNSSEC but who have a keen interest in the challenges and
benefits of deployment, including Root Key Signing Key (KSK) Rollover
activities.?? Now that DNSSEC has become an operational norm for many
registries, registrars, and ISPs, what have we learned about how we
manage DNSSEC? What is the best practice around key rollovers? How often
do you review your disaster recovery procedures? Is there operational
familiarity within your customer support teams? What operational
statistics have we gathered about DNSSEC? Are there experiences being
documented in the form of best practices, or something similar, for
transfer of signed zones?

If you have a specific concern about the Root Key Rollover, or believe
you have a method or solution to help address impacts, we would like to
hear from you.

?

2. DNSSEC Deployment Challenges

The program committee is seeking input from those that are interested in
implementation of DNSSEC but have general or particular concerns with
DNSSEC.??In particular, we are seeking input from individuals that would
be willing to participate in a panel that would discuss questions of the
nature:

- Are there any policies directly or indirectly impeding your DNSSEC
deployment? (RRR model, CDS/CDNSKEY automation)

- What are your most significant concerns with DNSSEC, e.g., complexity,
training, implementation, operation or something else?

- What do you expect DNSSEC to do for you and what doesn't it do?

- What do you see as the most important trade-offs with respect to doing
or not doing DNSSEC?

?

We are interested in presentations related to any aspect of DNSSEC such
as zone signing, DNS response validation, applications use of DNSSEC,
registry/registrar DNSSEC activities, etc.??In addition, we welcome
suggestions for additional topics.

?

If you are interested in participating, please send a brief (1-2
sentence) description of your proposed presentation
to??dnssec-panamacity at isoc.org <mailto:dnssec-panamacity at isoc.org>?by
**Friday, 18 May 2018**

?

Thank you,

Kathy and Julie

On behalf of the DNSSEC Workshop Program Committee:

Mark Elkins, DNS/ZACR

Jean Robert Hountomey, AfricaCERT

Jacques Latour, .CA

XiaodongLee, Chinese Academy of Sciences (CAS)

Russ Mundy, Parsons

OndrejFilip, CZ.NIC

Yoshiro Yoneya, JPRS

Dan York, Internet Society

?

?

?

?

?

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_______________________________________________
Dnssec-icann-workshops mailing list
Dnssec-icann-workshops at elists.isoc.org
https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/dnssec-icann-workshops


From Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net  Wed May 16 17:24:41 2018
From: Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net (Omo Oaiya)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2018 19:24:41 +0200
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Faulty result for Western Africa in AfriNIC
	AGMM Elections
Message-ID: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>

Greetings All,

I am looking at the BoD election process and it seems to me that the recent e-mail from the Board Chair seeking nominations for vacant seats should not be extended to Western Africa.  

The particular clause I am referring to is in 9.2 - https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process <https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process>
> 
> Elections will be closed as soon as the last member or proxy present in the meeting room casts his/her vote. Candidates with the highest number of votes in each category will be declared winners

I see from the list for West Africa that the candidate with the highest number of votes should have been declared winner and this is Dr Ousmane Tessa.  (btw, Dr Adewale Adedokun needs his name spelt correctly)

> 
> Western Africa - Seat 2
> Dr Adelawe Abedekon - 43
> Dr Ousmane Moussa Tessa - 56
> None of the above - 78
> Result: The seat is vacant
> 


The results from the other regions are valid and supported by the following clause as they had one candidate. 
> All open positions shall be subject to an election process even if there is only one candidate. In that event, if the option [none of the above] got more votes than the only candidate, then the seat shall be considered vacant and the Board will be requested to apply provisions of the Bylaws to temporarily fill the vacant seat. 

Can AfriNIC and the nomcom please clarify?   We should not deprive Dr Tessa of a rightful win ?. especially in the circumstances we find ourselves.

Omo
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From owen at delong.com  Thu May 17 01:26:49 2018
From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong)
Date: Wed, 16 May 2018 18:26:49 -0700
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Faulty result for Western Africa in AfriNIC
	AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
Message-ID: <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>

I would argue that even if none of the above were incorrectly on the ballot, in such a case the election should be declared invalid in its entirety and rerun. The votes for none of the above are greater than the difference between the other two candidates and to act as you suggest would be to disenfranchise all of those voters. 

Owen


> On May 16, 2018, at 10:24, Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net> wrote:
> 
> Greetings All,
> 
> I am looking at the BoD election process and it seems to me that the recent e-mail from the Board Chair seeking nominations for vacant seats should not be extended to Western Africa.  
> 
> The particular clause I am referring to is in 9.2 - https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process
>> 
>> Elections will be closed as soon as the last member or proxy present in the meeting room casts his/her vote. Candidates with the highest number of votes in each category will be declared winners
> 
> I see from the list for West Africa that the candidate with the highest number of votes should have been declared winner and this is Dr Ousmane Tessa.  (btw, Dr Adewale Adedokun needs his name spelt correctly)
> 
>> 
>> Western Africa - Seat 2
>> Dr Adelawe Abedekon - 43
>> Dr Ousmane Moussa Tessa - 56
>> None of the above - 78
>> Result: The seat is vacant
>> 
> 
> 
> The results from the other regions are valid and supported by the following clause as they had one candidate. 
>> All open positions shall be subject to an election process even if there is only one candidate. In that event, if the option [none of the above] got more votes than the only candidate, then the seat shall be considered vacant and the Board will be requested to apply provisions of the Bylaws to temporarily fill the vacant seat. 
> 
> Can AfriNIC and the nomcom please clarify?   We should not deprive Dr Tessa of a rightful win ?. especially in the circumstances we find ourselves.
> 
> Omo
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
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From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com  Thu May 17 04:57:55 2018
From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2018 04:57:55 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Faulty result for Western Africa in
	AfriNIC	AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
Message-ID: <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>

I concur with what Owen has said,

While I do not dispute the none of the above option may have been incorrectly on the ballot ? it was there ? and electronic voting was open for a period of 2 odd weeks before the AGMM, and during the AGMM, and this point was never raised.  As a result, people chose an option that was on the ballot ? had it not been there, they may have chosen the other candidate, and as such, that could change the result of the entire election for that seat.   Therefore, it would be entirely inappropriate to choose the next highest candidate ? and would disenfranchise the 80 odd people who were under the impression they were voting for an entirely legitimate option.

As such, if we wish to dispute the result of the election a full week after it has happened, and despite two weeks of time to dispute it when we were all fully aware of what was on the ballot, the only option is to nullify the election for that seat and hold it again at the next AGMM ? which leaves us back at the status quo.

I do think this may be a good time to make certain observations to this community so that we can start a discussion about the process moving forward.


  1.  We cannot elect directors at an SGMM ? section 13.4 of the bylaws makes explicit reference to the Annual General Members Meeting, and this is further enforced by the fact that the Annual General Members Meeting term that is used is explicitly defined in the definitions.
  2.  We are not quorate for an AGMM ? Section 12.10.ii is explicit in setting the quorum and makes reference to ?directors elected to represent a region? ? as such, an AGMM to elect directors cannot happen ? and this precludes using directors appointed under clause 13.14 to meet the quorum requirements (they are not elected directors, they are appointed directors, those are entirely different things)
  3.  AFRINIC therefore is required to pass a special resolution at an SGMM via super-majority vote to amend the bylaws to allow for election of directors outside of an AGMM.
  4.  There is an alternative to option C in the fact that a special resolution could be passed without an SGMM occurring ? however ? this would require 75% of the *entire* member base to vote in favour (not 75% of voting members), effectively meaning you would require roughly 1130 votes in favour to do this ? which I hardly think is practical.

The question therefore becomes ? what special resolution would members be prepared to vote in favour of ? because a special resolution *has* to happen to get us quorate again ? and failing that ? AFRINIC will not be able to hold an AGMM ? and will not be able to meet its statutory requirements come next year.  I also point out that thanks to clause 7.7 of the bylaws ? the board itself *cannot* adjust the bylaws any longer in unilateral form.

Andrew

From: Owen DeLong [mailto:owen at delong.com]
Sent: 17 May 2018 04:27
To: Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>
Cc: community-discuss <community-discuss at afrinic.net>; AfriNIC Discuss <members-discuss at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Faulty result for Western Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections

I would argue that even if none of the above were incorrectly on the ballot, in such a case the election should be declared invalid in its entirety and rerun. The votes for none of the above are greater than the difference between the other two candidates and to act as you suggest would be to disenfranchise all of those voters.

Owen


On May 16, 2018, at 10:24, Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net<mailto:Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>> wrote:
Greetings All,

I am looking at the BoD election process and it seems to me that the recent e-mail from the Board Chair seeking nominations for vacant seats should not be extended to Western Africa.

The particular clause I am referring to is in 9.2 - https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process<https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process>

  *
Elections will be closed as soon as the last member or proxy present in the meeting room casts his/her vote. Candidates with the highest number of votes in each category will be declared winners
I see from the list for West Africa that the candidate with the highest number of votes should have been declared winner and this is Dr Ousmane Tessa.  (btw, Dr Adewale Adedokun needs his name spelt correctly)


Western Africa - Seat 2
Dr Adelawe Abedekon - 43
Dr Ousmane Moussa Tessa - 56
None of the above - 78
Result: The seat is vacant


The results from the other regions are valid and supported by the following clause as they had one candidate.

     *   All open positions shall be subject to an election process even if there is only one candidate. In that event, if the option [none of the above] got more votes than the only candidate, then the seat shall be considered vacant and the Board will be requested to apply provisions of the Bylaws to temporarily fill the vacant seat.

Can AfriNIC and the nomcom please clarify?   We should not deprive Dr Tessa of a rightful win ?. especially in the circumstances we find ourselves.

Omo
_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
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From christianbope at gmail.com  Thu May 17 07:13:07 2018
From: christianbope at gmail.com (Bope Christian)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2018 08:13:07 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Remplissage des vacances occasionnelles
Message-ID: <D5CAC06C-DE0B-4B44-B6DD-9E86AC586475@gmail.com>


Chers membres et communaut? AFRINIC,

Le Conseil d?administration d'AFRINIC appelle par la pr?sente ? l'expression d'int?r?t des personnes souhaitant ?tre prises en consid?ration pour des postes vacants au sein du Conseil, conform?ment ? l'article 13.14 des Statuts AFRINIC. Toute nomination ? ces si?ges vacants sera pour une p?riode allant jusqu'? la prochaine AGMM AFRINIC pr?vue en juin 2019.

Il y a actuellement quatre postes vacants au sein du Conseil d'administration d'AFRINIC:

Afrique du Nord (si?ge 1)
Afrique de l'Ouest (si?ge 2)
Afrique australe (si?ge 5)
Afrique de l'Est (si?ge 6)

Si vous souhaitez ?tre consid?r? pour l'un de ces si?ges vacants, veuillez remplir le formulaire ? <https://registration.afrinic.net/elections/board-express-of-interest-201805 <https://registration.afrinic.net/elections/board-express-of-interest-201805>>, au plus tard ? 23:59 UTC le 17 Juin 2018.

Toute personne qui exprime un int?r?t doit:

Avoir au moins cinq (5) ans d'exp?rience professionnelle dans un domaine pertinent aux activit?s d'AFRINIC, telles que la gestion des ressources Internet, les TIC, le d?veloppement de politiques, les finances, l'audit ou la gestion des ressources humaines;
?tre disponible et engag? ? participer aux r?unions du Conseil et aux autres activit?s d'AFRINIC (en face-?-face et en ligne).

Les exigences suivantes de l'article 13.10 des statuts d'AFRINIC seront strictement respect?es:

13.10 Aucune personne ne doit ?tre nomm?e ou occuper un poste d'administrateur si elle est une personne qui:
(i) a moins de 18 ans;
(ii) est un failli non lib?r?;
iii) ne serait pas, sauf pour l'abrogation de l'article 117 de la loi de 1984 sur les soci?t?s de Maurice, ?tre un administrateur ou un promoteur de la soci?t? au sens de cette loi ou y participer ou y participer;
(iv) il est interdit d'?tre un administrateur ou un promoteur ou d'?tre concern? ou de prendre part ? la gestion d'une soci?t? en vertu des articles 337 ou 338 de la Loi;
(v) n'est pas une personne physique; ou
(vi) a ?t? jug? comme ?tant ali?n?.

Le Conseil a en outre l'intention d'appliquer les directives de l'article 13.12 des statuts d'AFRINIC, dans la mesure o? elles le jugent appropri?:

13.12 [...] les conditions suppl?mentaires suivantes pour l'?ligibilit? des candidats au poste d'administrateur:
(i) exp?rience ant?rieure en mati?re de direction au sein du conseil ou de l'organisation;
(ii) des comp?tences en gestion d'entreprise et en leadership;
(iii) la collecte de fonds pour l'exp?rience des organismes sans but lucratif;
(iv) l'exploitation des r?seaux et l'exp?rience des services Internet; et
(v) exp?rience du d?veloppement du commerce international.

Cordialement,
Christian D. Bope, Ph.D
Pr?sident du Conseil d?Administration d'AFRINIC





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From christianbope at gmail.com  Thu May 17 07:15:04 2018
From: christianbope at gmail.com (Bope Christian)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2018 08:15:04 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Filling of the casual vacancies
Message-ID: <565F679F-D653-49D5-BD10-9AC5AF7C2145@gmail.com>

Dear AFRINIC Members and community,

The AFRINIC Board hereby calls for expressions of interest from persons who wish to be considered for appointments to fill casual vacancies in the Board, in terms of article 13.14 of the AFRINIC Bylaws.  Any appointments to these vacant seats will be for a period until the next regularly scheduled AFRINIC AGMM, in June 2019.

There are currently four casual vacancies in the AFRINIC Board:

Northern Africa (seat 1)
Western Africa (seat 2)
Southern Africa (seat 5)
Eastern Africa (seat 6)

If you would like to be considered for one of these vacant seats, please complete the form at <https://registration.afrinic.net/elections/board-express-of-interest-201805 <https://registration.afrinic.net/elections/board-express-of-interest-201805>>, no later than 23:59 UTC on 17 June 2018.

Anyone who expresses interest shall:

Have at least five (5) years professional experience in an area relevant to AFRINIC activities, such as Internet Resource Management, ICT, policy development, finance, audit or HR management;
Be available and committed to participate in Board meetings and other AFRINIC activities (face-to-face and online).

The following requirements from Article 13.10 of the AFRINIC bylaws will be strictly observed:

13.10. No person shall be appointed or hold office as a Director if he is a person who:
(i) is under 18 years of age;
(ii) is an undischarged bankrupt;
(iii) would, but for the repeal of Section 117 of the Companies Act 1984 of Mauritius, be prohibited from being a Director or promoter of, or being concerned or taking part in the management of, a company within the meaning of that Act;
(iv) is prohibited from being a director or promoter of or being concerned or taking part in the management of a company under Sections 337 or 338 of the Act;
(v) is not a natural person; or
(vi) has been adjudged to have been of unsound mind.

The Board further intends to apply the guidelines from Article 13.12 of the AFRINIC Bylaws, to the extent that they consider appropriate:

13.12 [...]  the following additional conditions for the eligibility of candidates to the position of Board Directors:
(i) previous Board or organisational leadership experience;
(ii) skills in business management and leadership;
(iii) fundraising for not-for-profit organisations experience;
(iv) network operations and Internet services experience; and
(v) international Business development experience.


Best Regards,
Christian D. Bope, Ph.D
Chairman, AfriNIC Board








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From mje at posix.co.za  Thu May 17 09:08:42 2018
From: mje at posix.co.za (Mark Elkins)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2018 11:08:42 +0200
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>

I disagree with your first paragraph. I was a Board Member when "None of
the Above" was introduced. I was also often on NomCom. The simple idea
behind "None of the Above" is simply that - None of the above - that's
everyone (natural persons) listed on that ballot. It's not just for the
case where there is only one name on the ballot.


On 17/05/2018 06:57, Andrew Alston wrote:
>
> I concur with what Owen has said,
>
> ?
>
> While I do not dispute the none of the above option may have been
> incorrectly on the ballot ? it was there ? and electronic voting was
> open for a period of 2 odd weeks before the AGMM, and during the AGMM,
> and this point was never raised.? As a result, people chose an option
> that was on the ballot ? had it not been there, they may have chosen
> the other candidate, and as such, that could change the result of the
> entire election for that seat.?? Therefore, it would be entirely
> inappropriate to choose the next highest candidate ? and would
> disenfranchise the 80 odd people who were under the impression they
> were voting for an entirely legitimate option.?
>
> ?
>
> As such, if we wish to dispute the result of the election a full week
> after it has happened, and despite two weeks of time to dispute it
> when we were all fully aware of what was on the ballot, the only
> option is to nullify the election for that seat and hold it again at
> the next AGMM ? which leaves us back at the status quo.
>
> ?
>
> I do think this may be a good time to make certain observations to
> this community so that we can start a discussion about the process
> moving forward.
>
> ?
>
>  1. We cannot elect directors at an SGMM ? section 13.4 of the bylaws
>     makes explicit reference to the Annual General Members Meeting,
>     and this is further enforced by the fact that the Annual General
>     Members Meeting term that is used is explicitly defined in the
>     definitions.
>  2. We are not quorate for an AGMM ? Section 12.10.ii is explicit in
>     setting the quorum and makes reference to ?directors */_elected to
>     represent a region_/*? ? as such, an AGMM to elect directors
>     cannot happen ? and this precludes using directors appointed under
>     clause 13.14 to meet the quorum requirements (they are not elected
>     directors, they are appointed directors, those are entirely
>     different things)
>  3. AFRINIC therefore is required to pass a special resolution at an
>     SGMM via super-majority vote to amend the bylaws to allow for
>     election of directors outside of an AGMM.
>  4. There is an alternative to option C in the fact that a special
>     resolution could be passed without an SGMM occurring ? however ?
>     this would require 75% of the **entire** member base to vote in
>     favour (not 75% of voting members), effectively meaning you would
>     require roughly 1130 votes in favour to do this ? which I hardly
>     think is practical.
>
> ?
>
> The question therefore becomes ? what special resolution would members
> be prepared to vote in favour of ? because a special resolution
> **has** to happen to get us quorate again ? and failing that ? AFRINIC
> will not be able to hold an AGMM ? and will not be able to meet its
> statutory requirements come next year.? I also point out that thanks
> to clause 7.7 of the bylaws ? the board itself **cannot** adjust the
> bylaws any longer in unilateral form.
>
> ?
>
> Andrew
>
> ?
>
> *From:*Owen DeLong [mailto:owen at delong.com]
> *Sent:* 17 May 2018 04:27
> *To:* Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>
> *Cc:* community-discuss <community-discuss at afrinic.net>; AfriNIC
> Discuss <members-discuss at afrinic.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] Faulty result for Western Africa in
> AfriNIC AGMM Elections
>
> ?
>
> I would argue that even if none of the above were incorrectly on the
> ballot, in such a case the election should be declared invalid in its
> entirety and rerun. The votes for none of the above are greater than
> the difference between the other two candidates and to act as you
> suggest would be to disenfranchise all of those voters.?
>
> ?
>
> Owen
>
> ?
>
>
> On May 16, 2018, at 10:24, Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net
> <mailto:Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>> wrote:
>
>     Greetings All,
>
>     ?
>
>     I am looking at the BoD election process and it seems to me that
>     the recent e-mail from the Board Chair seeking nominations for
>     vacant seats should not be extended to Western Africa. ?
>
>     ?
>
>     The particular clause I am referring to is in 9.2
>     -?https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process
>
>          *
>
>
>             Elections will be closed as soon as the last member or
>             proxy present in the meeting room casts his/her vote.
>             Candidates with the highest number of votes in each
>             category will be declared winners
>
>     I see from the list for West Africa that the candidate with the
>     highest number of votes should have been declared winner and this
>     is Dr Ousmane Tessa. ?(btw, Dr Adewale Adedokun needs his name
>     spelt correctly)
>
>     ?
>
>
>         *Western Africa - Seat 2*
>
>         Dr Adelawe Abedekon - 43
>
>         Dr Ousmane Moussa Tessa - 56
>
>         None of the above - 78
>
>         /Result: The seat is vacant/
>
>         ?
>
>     ?
>
>     The results from the other regions are valid and supported by the
>     following clause as they had one candidate.?
>
>               o All open positions shall be subject to an election
>                 process even if there is only one candidate. In that
>                 event, if the option [none of the above] got more
>                 votes than the only candidate, then the seat shall be
>                 considered vacant and the Board will be requested to
>                 apply provisions of the Bylaws to temporarily fill the
>                 vacant seat.?
>
>     ?
>
>     Can AfriNIC and the nomcom please clarify? ? We should not deprive
>     Dr Tessa of a rightful win ?. especially in the circumstances we
>     find ourselves.
>
>     ?
>
>     Omo
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Community-Discuss mailing list
>     Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>     https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Members-Discuss mailing list
> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss

-- 
Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
mje at posix.co.za       Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za

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From Boubakar.Barry at wacren.net  Thu May 17 10:04:14 2018
From: Boubakar.Barry at wacren.net (Boubakar Barry)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2018 10:04:14 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Faulty result for Western Africa in AfriNIC
 AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
Message-ID: <CAGrBSSh8qc03+GzFLOzX-_6edVgiO1S4iUKeiYB3Yg-S43H+Rg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Board and Legal Counsel,

Good that Omo spotted this.

It?s a matter of applying the board election process adopted by the board
according to section 13.2 of the bylaws.

https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process describes
the process and section 9 spells out how to interpret the results in the
case there are more than one candidate and in the case there is only one
candidate. These two cases are addressed separately and differently.

It?s important to hear from the Board and the Legal Counsel, as the
elections can be challenged.

Please advise.

Regards.

Boubakar

On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 5:24 PM, Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net> wrote:

> Greetings All,
>
> I am looking at the BoD election process and it seems to me that the
> recent e-mail from the Board Chair seeking nominations for vacant seats
> should not be extended to Western Africa.
>
> The particular clause I am referring to is in 9.2 -
> https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process
>
>
>    -
>    Elections will be closed as soon as the last member or proxy present
>    in the meeting room casts his/her vote. Candidates with the highest number
>    of votes in each category will be declared winners
>
> I see from the list for West Africa that the candidate with the highest
> number of votes should have been declared winner and this is Dr Ousmane
> Tessa.  (btw, Dr Adewale Adedokun needs his name spelt correctly)
>
>
> *Western Africa - Seat 2*
>
> Dr Adelawe Abedekon - 43
>
> Dr Ousmane Moussa Tessa - 56
>
> None of the above - 78
>
> *Result: The seat is vacant*
>
>
> The results from the other regions are valid and supported by the
> following clause as they had one candidate.
>
>
>    - All open positions shall be subject to an election process even if
>       there is only one candidate. In that event, if the option [none of the
>       above] got more votes than the only candidate, then the seat shall be
>       considered vacant and the Board will be requested to apply provisions of
>       the Bylaws to temporarily fill the vacant seat.
>
>
> Can AfriNIC and the nomcom please clarify?   We should not deprive Dr
> Tessa of a rightful win ?. especially in the circumstances we find
> ourselves.
>
> Omo
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
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From kmw.elitcha at gmail.com  Thu May 17 11:13:37 2018
From: kmw.elitcha at gmail.com (Komi Elitcha)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2018 11:13:37 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
Message-ID: <CAN0q0kFHHSH8FQeyrGvUgapakTyAWthb0JGhQHQdu+2O343rzw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Community,

Having ?none of above? on the ballot is not the issue.

The real issue is about the candidate with the highest number of votes .

And this is what section 9.2 says:

*
Elections will be closed as soon as the last member or proxy present in the
meeting room casts his/her vote. Candidates with the highest number of
votes in each category will be declared winners.

*

2018-05-17 9:08 GMT+00:00 Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za>:

> I disagree with your first paragraph. I was a Board Member when "None of
> the Above" was introduced. I was also often on NomCom. The simple idea
> behind "None of the Above" is simply that - None of the above - that's
> everyone (natural persons) listed on that ballot. It's not just for the
> case where there is only one name on the ballot.
>
> On 17/05/2018 06:57, Andrew Alston wrote:
>
> I concur with what Owen has said,
>
>
>
> While I do not dispute the none of the above option may have been
> incorrectly on the ballot ? it was there ? and electronic voting was open
> for a period of 2 odd weeks before the AGMM, and during the AGMM, and this
> point was never raised.  As a result, people chose an option that was on
> the ballot ? had it not been there, they may have chosen the other
> candidate, and as such, that could change the result of the entire election
> for that seat.   Therefore, it would be entirely inappropriate to choose
> the next highest candidate ? and would disenfranchise the 80 odd people who
> were under the impression they were voting for an entirely legitimate
> option.
>
>
>
> As such, if we wish to dispute the result of the election a full week
> after it has happened, and despite two weeks of time to dispute it when we
> were all fully aware of what was on the ballot, the only option is to
> nullify the election for that seat and hold it again at the next AGMM ?
> which leaves us back at the status quo.
>
>
>
> I do think this may be a good time to make certain observations to this
> community so that we can start a discussion about the process moving
> forward.
>
>
>
>    1. We cannot elect directors at an SGMM ? section 13.4 of the bylaws
>    makes explicit reference to the Annual General Members Meeting, and this is
>    further enforced by the fact that the Annual General Members Meeting term
>    that is used is explicitly defined in the definitions.
>    2. We are not quorate for an AGMM ? Section 12.10.ii is explicit in
>    setting the quorum and makes reference to ?directors *elected to
>    represent a region*? ? as such, an AGMM to elect directors cannot
>    happen ? and this precludes using directors appointed under clause 13.14 to
>    meet the quorum requirements (they are not elected directors, they are
>    appointed directors, those are entirely different things)
>    3. AFRINIC therefore is required to pass a special resolution at an
>    SGMM via super-majority vote to amend the bylaws to allow for election of
>    directors outside of an AGMM.
>    4. There is an alternative to option C in the fact that a special
>    resolution could be passed without an SGMM occurring ? however ? this would
>    require 75% of the **entire** member base to vote in favour (not 75%
>    of voting members), effectively meaning you would require roughly 1130
>    votes in favour to do this ? which I hardly think is practical.
>
>
>
> The question therefore becomes ? what special resolution would members be
> prepared to vote in favour of ? because a special resolution **has** to
> happen to get us quorate again ? and failing that ? AFRINIC will not be
> able to hold an AGMM ? and will not be able to meet its statutory
> requirements come next year.  I also point out that thanks to clause 7.7 of
> the bylaws ? the board itself **cannot** adjust the bylaws any longer in
> unilateral form.
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
> *From:* Owen DeLong [mailto:owen at delong.com <owen at delong.com>]
> *Sent:* 17 May 2018 04:27
> *To:* Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net> <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>
> *Cc:* community-discuss <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> <community-discuss at afrinic.net>; AfriNIC Discuss
> <members-discuss at afrinic.net> <members-discuss at afrinic.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] Faulty result for Western Africa in
> AfriNIC AGMM Elections
>
>
>
> I would argue that even if none of the above were incorrectly on the
> ballot, in such a case the election should be declared invalid in its
> entirety and rerun. The votes for none of the above are greater than the
> difference between the other two candidates and to act as you suggest would
> be to disenfranchise all of those voters.
>
>
>
> Owen
>
>
>
>
> On May 16, 2018, at 10:24, Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net> wrote:
>
> Greetings All,
>
>
>
> I am looking at the BoD election process and it seems to me that the
> recent e-mail from the Board Chair seeking nominations for vacant seats
> should not be extended to Western Africa.
>
>
>
> The particular clause I am referring to is in 9.2 -
> https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process
>
>
>    -
>    Elections will be closed as soon as the last member or proxy present
>    in the meeting room casts his/her vote. Candidates with the highest number
>    of votes in each category will be declared winners
>
> I see from the list for West Africa that the candidate with the highest
> number of votes should have been declared winner and this is Dr Ousmane
> Tessa.  (btw, Dr Adewale Adedokun needs his name spelt correctly)
>
>
>
>
> *Western Africa - Seat 2*
>
> Dr Adelawe Abedekon - 43
>
> Dr Ousmane Moussa Tessa - 56
>
> None of the above - 78
>
> *Result: The seat is vacant*
>
>
>
>
>
> The results from the other regions are valid and supported by the
> following clause as they had one candidate.
>
>
>    - All open positions shall be subject to an election process even if
>       there is only one candidate. In that event, if the option [none of the
>       above] got more votes than the only candidate, then the seat shall be
>       considered vacant and the Board will be requested to apply provisions of
>       the Bylaws to temporarily fill the vacant seat.
>
>
>
> Can AfriNIC and the nomcom please clarify?   We should not deprive Dr
> Tessa of a rightful win ?. especially in the circumstances we find
> ourselves.
>
>
>
> Omo
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Members-Discuss mailing listMembers-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
>
>
> --
> Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africamje at posix.co.za       Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>


-- 
--KE
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From kmw.elitcha at gmail.com  Thu May 17 11:27:57 2018
From: kmw.elitcha at gmail.com (Komi Elitcha)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2018 11:27:57 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <CAN0q0kFHHSH8FQeyrGvUgapakTyAWthb0JGhQHQdu+2O343rzw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
 <CAN0q0kFHHSH8FQeyrGvUgapakTyAWthb0JGhQHQdu+2O343rzw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAN0q0kF3Lv88bjFdOFBLZauSdQyy9OBWUOurbaWNZgpxJKrW6A@mail.gmail.com>

Here is what 9.2 of
https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process full text
says:

9.2 Paper Ballot on Election Day

The voting conducted during the Annual General Members' Meeting is carried
out via paper ballots containing a list of candidate names and a ballot
number. Prior to the vote, all members present or participants holding a
proxy will be requested to register and validate their membership status.


   -             Voters should only vote for one candidate per
   category/region. Each mark on a ballot paper represents one vote. A ballot
   with more than one mark per category/region will be considered spoilt, and
   not be counted.


   -             The ballot paper should provide voters with the option to
   not vote for any candidate (a.k.a. "None of the Above").


   -             This will be a secret ballot election. An inclusion of any
   personal data on the ballot paper will invalidate the vote and will be
   counted as spoilt.


   -             Elections will be closed as soon as the last member or
   proxy present in the meeting room casts his/her vote. Candidates with the
   highest number of votes in each category will be declared winners.


   -             In the event of a tie for an open position, voting for
   that position will be repeated (Only by paper ballot) the same day until
   there is a winner.


   -             All open positions shall be subject to an election process
   even if there is only one candidate. In that event, if the option [none of
   the above] got more votes than the only candidate, then the seat shall be
   considered vacant and the Board will be requested to apply provisions of
   the Bylaws to temporarily fill the vacant seat.



2018-05-17 11:13 GMT+00:00 Komi Elitcha <kmw.elitcha at gmail.com>:

> Dear Community,
>
> Having ?none of above? on the ballot is not the issue.
>
> The real issue is about the candidate with the highest number of votes .
>
> And this is what section 9.2 says:
>
> *
> Elections will be closed as soon as the last member or proxy present in
> the meeting room casts his/her vote. Candidates with the highest number of
> votes in each category will be declared winners.
>
> *
>
> 2018-05-17 9:08 GMT+00:00 Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za>:
>
>> I disagree with your first paragraph. I was a Board Member when "None of
>> the Above" was introduced. I was also often on NomCom. The simple idea
>> behind "None of the Above" is simply that - None of the above - that's
>> everyone (natural persons) listed on that ballot. It's not just for the
>> case where there is only one name on the ballot.
>>
>> On 17/05/2018 06:57, Andrew Alston wrote:
>>
>> I concur with what Owen has said,
>>
>>
>>
>> While I do not dispute the none of the above option may have been
>> incorrectly on the ballot ? it was there ? and electronic voting was open
>> for a period of 2 odd weeks before the AGMM, and during the AGMM, and this
>> point was never raised.  As a result, people chose an option that was on
>> the ballot ? had it not been there, they may have chosen the other
>> candidate, and as such, that could change the result of the entire election
>> for that seat.   Therefore, it would be entirely inappropriate to choose
>> the next highest candidate ? and would disenfranchise the 80 odd people who
>> were under the impression they were voting for an entirely legitimate
>> option.
>>
>>
>>
>> As such, if we wish to dispute the result of the election a full week
>> after it has happened, and despite two weeks of time to dispute it when we
>> were all fully aware of what was on the ballot, the only option is to
>> nullify the election for that seat and hold it again at the next AGMM ?
>> which leaves us back at the status quo.
>>
>>
>>
>> I do think this may be a good time to make certain observations to this
>> community so that we can start a discussion about the process moving
>> forward.
>>
>>
>>
>>    1. We cannot elect directors at an SGMM ? section 13.4 of the bylaws
>>    makes explicit reference to the Annual General Members Meeting, and this is
>>    further enforced by the fact that the Annual General Members Meeting term
>>    that is used is explicitly defined in the definitions.
>>    2. We are not quorate for an AGMM ? Section 12.10.ii is explicit in
>>    setting the quorum and makes reference to ?directors *elected to
>>    represent a region*? ? as such, an AGMM to elect directors cannot
>>    happen ? and this precludes using directors appointed under clause 13.14 to
>>    meet the quorum requirements (they are not elected directors, they are
>>    appointed directors, those are entirely different things)
>>    3. AFRINIC therefore is required to pass a special resolution at an
>>    SGMM via super-majority vote to amend the bylaws to allow for election of
>>    directors outside of an AGMM.
>>    4. There is an alternative to option C in the fact that a special
>>    resolution could be passed without an SGMM occurring ? however ? this would
>>    require 75% of the **entire** member base to vote in favour (not 75%
>>    of voting members), effectively meaning you would require roughly 1130
>>    votes in favour to do this ? which I hardly think is practical.
>>
>>
>>
>> The question therefore becomes ? what special resolution would members be
>> prepared to vote in favour of ? because a special resolution **has** to
>> happen to get us quorate again ? and failing that ? AFRINIC will not be
>> able to hold an AGMM ? and will not be able to meet its statutory
>> requirements come next year.  I also point out that thanks to clause 7.7 of
>> the bylaws ? the board itself **cannot** adjust the bylaws any longer in
>> unilateral form.
>>
>>
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Owen DeLong [mailto:owen at delong.com <owen at delong.com>]
>> *Sent:* 17 May 2018 04:27
>> *To:* Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net> <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>
>> *Cc:* community-discuss <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> <community-discuss at afrinic.net>; AfriNIC Discuss
>> <members-discuss at afrinic.net> <members-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] Faulty result for Western Africa in
>> AfriNIC AGMM Elections
>>
>>
>>
>> I would argue that even if none of the above were incorrectly on the
>> ballot, in such a case the election should be declared invalid in its
>> entirety and rerun. The votes for none of the above are greater than the
>> difference between the other two candidates and to act as you suggest would
>> be to disenfranchise all of those voters.
>>
>>
>>
>> Owen
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 16, 2018, at 10:24, Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net> wrote:
>>
>> Greetings All,
>>
>>
>>
>> I am looking at the BoD election process and it seems to me that the
>> recent e-mail from the Board Chair seeking nominations for vacant seats
>> should not be extended to Western Africa.
>>
>>
>>
>> The particular clause I am referring to is in 9.2 -
>> https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process
>>
>>
>>    -
>>    Elections will be closed as soon as the last member or proxy present
>>    in the meeting room casts his/her vote. Candidates with the highest number
>>    of votes in each category will be declared winners
>>
>> I see from the list for West Africa that the candidate with the highest
>> number of votes should have been declared winner and this is Dr Ousmane
>> Tessa.  (btw, Dr Adewale Adedokun needs his name spelt correctly)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Western Africa - Seat 2*
>>
>> Dr Adelawe Abedekon - 43
>>
>> Dr Ousmane Moussa Tessa - 56
>>
>> None of the above - 78
>>
>> *Result: The seat is vacant*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The results from the other regions are valid and supported by the
>> following clause as they had one candidate.
>>
>>
>>    - All open positions shall be subject to an election process even if
>>       there is only one candidate. In that event, if the option [none of the
>>       above] got more votes than the only candidate, then the seat shall be
>>       considered vacant and the Board will be requested to apply provisions of
>>       the Bylaws to temporarily fill the vacant seat.
>>
>>
>>
>> Can AfriNIC and the nomcom please clarify?   We should not deprive Dr
>> Tessa of a rightful win ?. especially in the circumstances we find
>> ourselves.
>>
>>
>>
>> Omo
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Members-Discuss mailing listMembers-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africamje at posix.co.za       Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
>> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> --KE
>
>
>


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--KE
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From noah at neo.co.tz  Thu May 17 11:32:45 2018
From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2018 14:32:45 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
Message-ID: <CAEqgTWYhKV3P8o52h+O-eEXUPchJRXBrzSojd_hidQs=Cy=BWw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, 17 May 2018, 12:15 p.m. Mark Elkins, <mje at posix.co.za> wrote:

> I disagree with your first paragraph. I was a Board Member when "None of
> the Above" was introduced. I was also often on NomCom. The simple idea
> behind "None of the Above" is simply that - None of the above - that's
> everyone (natural persons) listed on that ballot. It's not just for the
> case where there is only one name on the ballot.
>
Elkins,

I acknowledge your experience but for this one, I beg to differ because the
text in the bylaws is very crystal clear.

This is a mistake imho and more clarification is sought as we cant deny a
candidate the win based on precidence yet the rules say otherwise.

May we get the opinion of legal as his clarification is important.

Cheers,
Noah
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From paulm at faircape.co.za  Thu May 17 11:43:14 2018
From: paulm at faircape.co.za (Paul McMaster)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2018 13:43:14 +0200
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <CAEqgTWYhKV3P8o52h+O-eEXUPchJRXBrzSojd_hidQs=Cy=BWw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
 <CAEqgTWYhKV3P8o52h+O-eEXUPchJRXBrzSojd_hidQs=Cy=BWw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAOyEmkP9hULGW3Kday5BciP0ZsyWOALcHZjQruvpMe5EPYs=w@mail.gmail.com>

"none of the above" is there for a reason, it in itself is an entity. If it
was not there what would the purpose of voting be if I did not agree with
any of the candidates?
It in its self is a "candidate" and it won.

It is there for a real reason and is perfectly democratic. How else would
you vote for change if you did not agree with any of the candidates, not
voting is not an option.

On 17 May 2018 at 13:32, Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, 17 May 2018, 12:15 p.m. Mark Elkins, <mje at posix.co.za> wrote:
>
>> I disagree with your first paragraph. I was a Board Member when "None of
>> the Above" was introduced. I was also often on NomCom. The simple idea
>> behind "None of the Above" is simply that - None of the above - that's
>> everyone (natural persons) listed on that ballot. It's not just for the
>> case where there is only one name on the ballot.
>>
> Elkins,
>
> I acknowledge your experience but for this one, I beg to differ because
> the text in the bylaws is very crystal clear.
>
> This is a mistake imho and more clarification is sought as we cant deny a
> candidate the win based on precidence yet the rules say otherwise.
>
> May we get the opinion of legal as his clarification is important.
>
> Cheers,
> Noah
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>


-- 

<https://goo.gl/nemKAL>
Paul McMaster
IT Manager
Direct: (021) 815 5792 | Switchboard: (021) 815 5700
paulm at faircape.co.za


*Please, in the interests of security, be advised that, Faircape will never
send you an e-mail advising you of a change of our banking details.Such
emails could be an attempt to defraud you by asking you to make payment to
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writer immediately.*

Committed to excellence
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SERVICES | UTILITY MANAGEMENT & ENERGY SOLUTIONS | RETIREMENT HOLDINGS |
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From virtual.borg at gmail.com  Thu May 17 12:43:19 2018
From: virtual.borg at gmail.com (Chevalier du Borg)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2018 16:43:19 +0400
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <CAAOyEmkP9hULGW3Kday5BciP0ZsyWOALcHZjQruvpMe5EPYs=w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
 <CAEqgTWYhKV3P8o52h+O-eEXUPchJRXBrzSojd_hidQs=Cy=BWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAAOyEmkP9hULGW3Kday5BciP0ZsyWOALcHZjQruvpMe5EPYs=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAH5aO8eRbOcSO24MQ=VsQVeC8m=r7WrUFmTnwO=TF=qAKdS_Yg@mail.gmail.com>

So let us examine what happen


a) The two current membre of board had no competition
b) Less than 1/3 of membership vote in the election
c) The clear winner is "None of the Above"

I see two problem

Point (b) say that: most member do not care
Point (c) clearly send a message: all those that were candidate are not
good enough.  Add to point (a) and we see that there is a very very very
BIG problem.

These attempt to ignore message of (c) will in long term will DESTROY
governance in this organisation.

I can see why people vote "None of the above" --- just listen to the
campaign speech of all the candidate was so DISAPPOINTING!

If this bottom-up process is not going to work, maybe we should hand this
thing over to African Union and government to run.  All this drama may stop.


Dear board, dear CEO, every crise is an opportunity, for greatness or more
rubbish. Do not waist this crisis.




Le jeu. 17 mai 2018 ? 15:44, Paul McMaster via Community-Discuss <
community-discuss at afrinic.net> a ?crit :

> "none of the above" is there for a reason, it in itself is an entity. If
> it was not there what would the purpose of voting be if I did not agree
> with any of the candidates?
> It in its self is a "candidate" and it won.
>
> It is there for a real reason and is perfectly democratic. How else would
> you vote for change if you did not agree with any of the candidates, not
> voting is not an option.
>
> On 17 May 2018 at 13:32, Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 17 May 2018, 12:15 p.m. Mark Elkins, <mje at posix.co.za> wrote:
>>
>>> I disagree with your first paragraph. I was a Board Member when "None of
>>> the Above" was introduced. I was also often on NomCom. The simple idea
>>> behind "None of the Above" is simply that - None of the above - that's
>>> everyone (natural persons) listed on that ballot. It's not just for the
>>> case where there is only one name on the ballot.
>>>
>> Elkins,
>>
>> I acknowledge your experience but for this one, I beg to differ because
>> the text in the bylaws is very crystal clear.
>>
>> This is a mistake imho and more clarification is sought as we cant deny a
>> candidate the win based on precidence yet the rules say otherwise.
>>
>> May we get the opinion of legal as his clarification is important.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Noah
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> <https://goo.gl/nemKAL>
> Paul McMaster
> IT Manager
> Direct: (021) 815 5792 | Switchboard: (021) 815 5700
> paulm at faircape.co.za
>
>
> *Please, in the interests of security, be advised that, Faircape will
> never send you an e-mail advising you of a change of our banking
> details.Such emails could be an attempt to defraud you by asking you to
> make payment to a fraudulent bank account. Do not act on such an email,
> please contact the writer immediately.*
>
> Committed to excellence
> PROPERTY MANAGEMENT | SALES & LEASING | COMMUNICATIONS | SURVEILLANCE
> SERVICES | UTILITY MANAGEMENT & ENERGY SOLUTIONS | RETIREMENT HOLDINGS |
> HEALTHCARE
>
>
>
> The integrity of e-mails sent across the Internet cannot be guaranteed and
> messages sent via this medium are potentially at risk. The recipient should
> scan any attached files for viruses as well as verify that the email
> address of the sender is legitimate. All liability arising as a result of
> the use of this medium to transmit information by or to the Faircape Group
> of companies is excluded to the extent permitted by law. Faircape Group of
> Companies assumes no responsibility or liability which may arise from any
> attempt to gain unauthorised access to this account through hacking or
> otherwise.
>
>
> The information contained in this email is confidential and may contain
> proprietary and/or personal information. It is meant solely for the
> intended recipient. Access to this email by anyone else is unauthorised. If
> you are not the intended recipient, any processing of the email or the
> information contained therein (including disclosure, copying, distribution,
> storage) or any action taken or omitted in reliance on this, is prohibited
> and may be unlawful. No liability or responsibility is accepted if
> information or data is, for whatever reason corrupted or does not reach its
> intended recipient. No warranty is given that this email is free of
> viruses.
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
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___________________________________
"Common sense is what tells us the world is flat"
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From badru.ntege at nftconsult.com  Thu May 17 12:24:52 2018
From: badru.ntege at nftconsult.com (Badru Ntege)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2018 12:24:52 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <CAN0q0kFHHSH8FQeyrGvUgapakTyAWthb0JGhQHQdu+2O343rzw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>,
 <CAN0q0kFHHSH8FQeyrGvUgapakTyAWthb0JGhQHQdu+2O343rzw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <82C6770A-45B1-4F1C-B43E-F956709408C7@nftconsult.com>

If we read the bye laws as they are written now.  To me it would actually mean that many people did not like the slate offered but an election happened and there were candidates with high number of votes.

So actually three candidates had high numbers of votes. Though many people did not like the slate.

We actually had an election of members.



Sent from my iPhone

On 17 May 2018, at 13:16, Komi Elitcha <kmw.elitcha at gmail.com<mailto:kmw.elitcha at gmail.com>> wrote:

Dear Community,

Having ?none of above? on the ballot is not the issue.

The real issue is about the candidate with the highest number of votes .

And this is what section 9.2 says:

*
Elections will be closed as soon as the last member or proxy present in the meeting room casts his/her vote. Candidates with the highest number of votes in each category will be declared winners.

*

2018-05-17 9:08 GMT+00:00 Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za<mailto:mje at posix.co.za>>:

I disagree with your first paragraph. I was a Board Member when "None of the Above" was introduced. I was also often on NomCom. The simple idea behind "None of the Above" is simply that - None of the above - that's everyone (natural persons) listed on that ballot. It's not just for the case where there is only one name on the ballot.

On 17/05/2018 06:57, Andrew Alston wrote:
I concur with what Owen has said,

While I do not dispute the none of the above option may have been incorrectly on the ballot ? it was there ? and electronic voting was open for a period of 2 odd weeks before the AGMM, and during the AGMM, and this point was never raised.  As a result, people chose an option that was on the ballot ? had it not been there, they may have chosen the other candidate, and as such, that could change the result of the entire election for that seat.   Therefore, it would be entirely inappropriate to choose the next highest candidate ? and would disenfranchise the 80 odd people who were under the impression they were voting for an entirely legitimate option.

As such, if we wish to dispute the result of the election a full week after it has happened, and despite two weeks of time to dispute it when we were all fully aware of what was on the ballot, the only option is to nullify the election for that seat and hold it again at the next AGMM ? which leaves us back at the status quo.

I do think this may be a good time to make certain observations to this community so that we can start a discussion about the process moving forward.


  1.  We cannot elect directors at an SGMM ? section 13.4 of the bylaws makes explicit reference to the Annual General Members Meeting, and this is further enforced by the fact that the Annual General Members Meeting term that is used is explicitly defined in the definitions.
  2.  We are not quorate for an AGMM ? Section 12.10.ii is explicit in setting the quorum and makes reference to ?directors elected to represent a region? ? as such, an AGMM to elect directors cannot happen ? and this precludes using directors appointed under clause 13.14 to meet the quorum requirements (they are not elected directors, they are appointed directors, those are entirely different things)
  3.  AFRINIC therefore is required to pass a special resolution at an SGMM via super-majority vote to amend the bylaws to allow for election of directors outside of an AGMM.
  4.  There is an alternative to option C in the fact that a special resolution could be passed without an SGMM occurring ? however ? this would require 75% of the *entire* member base to vote in favour (not 75% of voting members), effectively meaning you would require roughly 1130 votes in favour to do this ? which I hardly think is practical.

The question therefore becomes ? what special resolution would members be prepared to vote in favour of ? because a special resolution *has* to happen to get us quorate again ? and failing that ? AFRINIC will not be able to hold an AGMM ? and will not be able to meet its statutory requirements come next year.  I also point out that thanks to clause 7.7 of the bylaws ? the board itself *cannot* adjust the bylaws any longer in unilateral form.

Andrew

From: Owen DeLong [mailto:owen at delong.com]
Sent: 17 May 2018 04:27
To: Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net><mailto:Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>
Cc: community-discuss <community-discuss at afrinic.net><mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>; AfriNIC Discuss <members-discuss at afrinic.net><mailto:members-discuss at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Faulty result for Western Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections

I would argue that even if none of the above were incorrectly on the ballot, in such a case the election should be declared invalid in its entirety and rerun. The votes for none of the above are greater than the difference between the other two candidates and to act as you suggest would be to disenfranchise all of those voters.

Owen


On May 16, 2018, at 10:24, Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net<mailto:Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>> wrote:
Greetings All,

I am looking at the BoD election process and it seems to me that the recent e-mail from the Board Chair seeking nominations for vacant seats should not be extended to Western Africa.

The particular clause I am referring to is in 9.2 - https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process

  *
Elections will be closed as soon as the last member or proxy present in the meeting room casts his/her vote. Candidates with the highest number of votes in each category will be declared winners
I see from the list for West Africa that the candidate with the highest number of votes should have been declared winner and this is Dr Ousmane Tessa.  (btw, Dr Adewale Adedokun needs his name spelt correctly)


Western Africa - Seat 2
Dr Adelawe Abedekon - 43
Dr Ousmane Moussa Tessa - 56
None of the above - 78
Result: The seat is vacant


The results from the other regions are valid and supported by the following clause as they had one candidate.

     *   All open positions shall be subject to an election process even if there is only one candidate. In that event, if the option [none of the above] got more votes than the only candidate, then the seat shall be considered vacant and the Board will be requested to apply provisions of the Bylaws to temporarily fill the vacant seat.

Can AfriNIC and the nomcom please clarify?   We should not deprive Dr Tessa of a rightful win ?. especially in the circumstances we find ourselves.

Omo
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https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss



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https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss



--
Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
mje at posix.co.za<mailto:mje at posix.co.za>       Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za


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From Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com  Thu May 17 14:38:03 2018
From: Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com (Ben Roberts)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2018 14:38:03 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <CAEqgTWYhKV3P8o52h+O-eEXUPchJRXBrzSojd_hidQs=Cy=BWw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
 <CAEqgTWYhKV3P8o52h+O-eEXUPchJRXBrzSojd_hidQs=Cy=BWw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E12E18F4-0ED7-4C9D-A39D-EF69DEA2718A@liquidtelecom.com>

All,
The election was run and winner declared. Majority of votes cast to have none of the candidates join the board.

The AGMM has now closed with no board members being elected.

Neither of the losing candidates have challenged the elections, but they are  free to do so if they wish.

But I lived through a disputed election last year here in Kenya, the long limbo period of the dispute was not good for the nation. The result of the election was the same at the end of the day, except the productivity of the nation was low, and there was national division and this went on for more than 6 months.

I don?t think Afrinic needs more of division than it has already. And ways to unite and move forwards need to be considered.

N?est-ce pas?

Ben

Sent from my iPhone

On 17 May 2018, at 12:36, Noah <noah at neo.co.tz<mailto:noah at neo.co.tz>> wrote:



On Thu, 17 May 2018, 12:15 p.m. Mark Elkins, <mje at posix.co.za<mailto:mje at posix.co.za>> wrote:

I disagree with your first paragraph. I was a Board Member when "None of the Above" was introduced. I was also often on NomCom. The simple idea behind "None of the Above" is simply that - None of the above - that's everyone (natural persons) listed on that ballot. It's not just for the case where there is only one name on the ballot.


Elkins,

I acknowledge your experience but for this one, I beg to differ because the text in the bylaws is very crystal clear.

This is a mistake imho and more clarification is sought as we cant deny a candidate the win based on precidence yet the rules say otherwise.

May we get the opinion of legal as his clarification is important.

Cheers,
Noah
_______________________________________________
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Members-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Members-Discuss at afrinic.net>
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
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From ashok at afrinic.net  Thu May 17 16:17:22 2018
From: ashok at afrinic.net (Ashok)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2018 20:17:22 +0400
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <CAGrBSSh8qc03+GzFLOzX-_6edVgiO1S4iUKeiYB3Yg-S43H+Rg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <CAGrBSSh8qc03+GzFLOzX-_6edVgiO1S4iUKeiYB3Yg-S43H+Rg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <dd22da4f-9308-0e81-85d2-f50839f5ed8f@afrinic.net>

Dear Members and Community,
Mt views have been sought on the matter under reference.
Please find same hereunder.

On 17/05/2018 14:04, B

*_The Election Process and last AGMM._*

The appointment of Directors is carried out during an AGMM of the 
Company ?Art 13.1 of the constitution.

The election of the Directors is carried out in terms of Art 13.2 of the 
constitution which refers expressly to the election process approved by 
the Board.

MoreoverArt 10.2 of the Constitution refers to precedent applied during 
an AFRINIC election and which de facto become part of the election 
guidelines.

The election processas it stands today is the one which was applied 
duringthe elections held during the last AGMM without any opposition.

This is what it provides:

*9.2 Paper Ballot on Election Day*

The voting conducted during the Annual General Members' Meeting is 
carried out via paper ballots containing a list of candidate names and a 
ballot number. Prior to the vote, all members present or participants 
holding a proxy will be requested to register and validate their 
membership status.

          + Voters should only vote for one candidate per
            category/region. Each mark on a ballot paper represents one
            vote. A ballot with more than one mark per category/region
            will be considered spoilt, and not be counted.
          + The ballot paper should provide voters with the option to
            not vote for any candidate (a.k.a. "None of the Above").
          + This will be a secret ballot election. An inclusion of any
            personal data on the ballot paper will invalidate the vote
            and will be counted as spoilt.
          + Elections will be closed as soon as the last member or proxy
            present in the meeting room casts his/her vote. Candidates
            with the highest number of votes in each category will be
            declared winners.
          + In the event of a tie for an open position, voting for that
            position will be repeated (Only by paper ballot) the same
            day until there is a winner.
          + All open positions shall be subject to an election process
            even if there is only one candidate. In that event, if the
            option [none of the above] got more votes than the only
            candidate, then the seat shall be considered vacant and the
            Board will be requestedto apply provisions of the Bylaws to
            temporarily fill the vacant seat

The last amendment of the election guidelines introduced the voting 
option ? None of the Above?. ?(Vide second bullet point above.)Those 
voters who have cast their votes for ? None of the Above? have done so 
in compliance with the prevailingconstitution and these are thus valid 
votes. Every voter was aware of the new option.

The election guidelines are clear as to what happens when the ? None of 
the Above? option has a majority.- (Vide last bullet point above.)

The election guidelines must be read as a whole and all the provisions 
read together.

Legal Counsel ?AFRINIC

17.05.2018

oubakar Barry wrote:
>
> Hello Board and Legal Counsel,
>
> Good that Omo spotted this.
>
> It?s a matter of applying the board election process adopted by the 
> board according to section 13.2 of the bylaws.
>
> https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process 
> describes the process and section 9 spells out how to interpret the 
> results in the case there are more than one candidate and in the case 
> there is only one candidate. These two cases are addressed separately 
> and differently.
>
> It?s important to hear from the Board and the Legal Counsel, as the 
> elections can be challenged.
>
> Please advise.
>
> Regards.
>
> Boubakar
>
>
> On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 5:24 PM, Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net 
> <mailto:Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>> wrote:
>
>     Greetings All,
>
>     I am looking at the BoD election process and it seems to me that
>     the recent e-mail from the Board Chair seeking nominations for
>     vacant seats should not be extended to Western Africa.
>
>     The particular clause I am referring to is in 9.2 -
>     https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process
>     <https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process>
>>
>>      *
>>
>>
>>         Elections will be closed as soon as the last member or proxy
>>         present in the meeting room casts his/her vote. Candidates
>>         with the highest number of votes in each category will be
>>         declared winners
>>
>     I see from the list for West Africa that the candidate with the
>     highest number of votes should have been declared winner and this
>     is Dr Ousmane Tessa. ?(btw, Dr Adewale Adedokun needs his name
>     spelt correctly)
>
>>
>>     *Western Africa - Seat 2*
>>
>>     Dr Adelawe Abedekon - 43
>>
>>     Dr Ousmane Moussa Tessa - 56
>>
>>     None of the above - 78
>>
>>     /Result: The seat is vacant/
>>
>>
>
>     The results from the other regions are valid and supported by the
>     following clause as they had one candidate.
>>
>>           o All open positions shall be subject to an election
>>             process even if there is only one candidate. In that
>>             event, if the option [none of the above] got more votes
>>             than the only candidate, then the seat shall be
>>             considered vacant and the Board will be requested to
>>             apply provisions of the Bylaws to temporarily fill the
>>             vacant seat.
>>
>
>     Can AfriNIC and the nomcom please clarify? ? We should not deprive
>     Dr Tessa of a rightful win ?. especially in the circumstances we
>     find ourselves.
>
>     Omo
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Community-Discuss mailing list
>     Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>     https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>     <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Members-Discuss mailing list
> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss

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From uffa_modey at yahoo.com  Thu May 17 17:39:00 2018
From: uffa_modey at yahoo.com (Uffa Modey)
Date: Thu, 17 May 2018 17:39:00 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Faulty result for Western Africa in
	AfriNIC	AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
Message-ID: <2102288192.2388742.1526578740964@mail.yahoo.com>


   
   - Candidates with the highest number of votes in each category will be declared winners
None of the above was not a candidate

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 2:29 AM, Owen DeLong<owen at delong.com> wrote:   _______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
  
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From badru.ntege at nftconsult.com  Fri May 18 06:07:54 2018
From: badru.ntege at nftconsult.com (Badru Ntege)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 06:07:54 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Faulty result for Western Africa
	in	AfriNIC	AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <2102288192.2388742.1526578740964@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>,
 <2102288192.2388742.1526578740964@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <62F405BD-7199-486D-9C1E-C3E6FEBB904A@nftconsult.com>



Sent from my iPhone

On 17 May 2018, at 19:42, Uffa Modey via Community-Discuss <community-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>> wrote:


  *   Candidates with the highest number of votes in each category will be declared winners

None of the above was not a candidate

Exactly and the bye laws are silent in a situation where there was an actual candidate. So None of the above was a sentiment we appreciate but there was an actual candidate with votes.

If we actually want to make none of the above a candidate it should be clearly stated in the bye laws.






Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android<https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature>

On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 2:29 AM, Owen DeLong
<owen at delong.com<mailto:owen at delong.com>> wrote:
_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
<Untitled>
_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
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From saul at enetworks.co.za  Fri May 18 06:52:07 2018
From: saul at enetworks.co.za (Saul Stein)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 08:52:07 +0200 (SAST)
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Faulty result for Western
	Africa	in	AfriNIC	AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <62F405BD-7199-486D-9C1E-C3E6FEBB904A@nftconsult.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>,
 <2102288192.2388742.1526578740964@mail.yahoo.com>
 <62F405BD-7199-486D-9C1E-C3E6FEBB904A@nftconsult.com>
Message-ID: <2bbc01d3ee74$bcf02c70$36d08550$@enetworks.co.za>

>If we actually want to make none of the above a candidate it should be
clearly stated in the bye laws.  

It is after all the will of the community.

 

 

 

 

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From badru.ntege at nftconsult.com  Fri May 18 06:58:25 2018
From: badru.ntege at nftconsult.com (Badru Ntege)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 06:58:25 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Faulty result for Western
	Africa	in	AfriNIC	AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <2bbc01d3ee74$bcf02c70$36d08550$@enetworks.co.za>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>,
 <2102288192.2388742.1526578740964@mail.yahoo.com>
 <62F405BD-7199-486D-9C1E-C3E6FEBB904A@nftconsult.com>,
 <2bbc01d3ee74$bcf02c70$36d08550$@enetworks.co.za>
Message-ID: <34183EA7-E93D-40C2-9085-B83F8763D0C5@nftconsult.com>



Sent from my iPhone

On 18 May 2018, at 08:54, Saul Stein <saul at enetworks.co.za<mailto:saul at enetworks.co.za>> wrote:

>If we actually want to make none of the above a candidate it should be clearly stated in the bye laws.
It is after all the will of the community.

Then let?s put it specifically in the byelaws but as we stand today it is not and thus its candidates who win elections and not emotions

We had candidates who won the last election and their win should stand.





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From uffa_modey at yahoo.com  Fri May 18 08:32:43 2018
From: uffa_modey at yahoo.com (Uffa Modey)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 08:32:43 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Faulty result for Western
	Africa	in	AfriNIC	AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <2bbc01d3ee74$bcf02c70$36d08550$@enetworks.co.za>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <2102288192.2388742.1526578740964@mail.yahoo.com>
 <62F405BD-7199-486D-9C1E-C3E6FEBB904A@nftconsult.com>
 <2bbc01d3ee74$bcf02c70$36d08550$@enetworks.co.za>
Message-ID: <839148249.2628142.1526632363584@mail.yahoo.com>

Fair enough

But since we follow the law in its most literal meaning, it states clearly that the CANDIDATE with the highest vote will be declared the winner

If we want the change this law, i believe that there is a procedure for that, but at the moment when the elections were held this was the law and it should be followed to the fullest extent

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 7:52 AM, Saul Stein<saul at enetworks.co.za> wrote:   #yiv6322730292 #yiv6322730292 -- _filtered #yiv6322730292 {font-family:Wingdings;panose-1:5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;} _filtered #yiv6322730292 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv6322730292 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv6322730292 #yiv6322730292 p.yiv6322730292MsoNormal, #yiv6322730292 li.yiv6322730292MsoNormal, #yiv6322730292 div.yiv6322730292MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:New serif;}#yiv6322730292 a:link, #yiv6322730292 span.yiv6322730292MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv6322730292 a:visited, #yiv6322730292 span.yiv6322730292MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv6322730292 span.yiv6322730292EmailStyle17 {font-family:sans-serif;color:#1F497D;}#yiv6322730292 .yiv6322730292MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv6322730292 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv6322730292 div.yiv6322730292WordSection1 {}#yiv6322730292 _filtered #yiv6322730292 {} _filtered #yiv6322730292 {font-family:Symbol;} _filtered #yiv6322730292 {} _filtered #yiv6322730292 {font-family:Wingdings;} _filtered #yiv6322730292 {font-family:Wingdings;} _filtered #yiv6322730292 {font-family:Wingdings;} _filtered #yiv6322730292 {font-family:Wingdings;} _filtered #yiv6322730292 {font-family:Wingdings;} _filtered #yiv6322730292 {font-family:Wingdings;} _filtered #yiv6322730292 {font-family:Wingdings;}#yiv6322730292 ol {margin-bottom:0cm;}#yiv6322730292 ul {margin-bottom:0cm;}#yiv6322730292 

>If we actually want to make none of the above a candidate it should be clearly stated in the bye laws. ?
It is after all the will of the community.

 ?

 ?

 ?

 ?
  
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From akin.akinfenwa at uniosun.edu.ng  Fri May 18 08:35:48 2018
From: akin.akinfenwa at uniosun.edu.ng (Timothy Ola Akinfenwa)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 09:35:48 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <dd22da4f-9308-0e81-85d2-f50839f5ed8f@afrinic.net>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <CAGrBSSh8qc03+GzFLOzX-_6edVgiO1S4iUKeiYB3Yg-S43H+Rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <dd22da4f-9308-0e81-85d2-f50839f5ed8f@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <CAL1GxKT5Yb+_PTHLULUFbT3YC56tS5Kvj2GabtOW1xzsZCs4aA@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks Ashok for the clarification. However, I have an observation;


   - All open positions shall be subject to an election process even if
   there is only one candidate. In that event, *if the option [none of the
   above] got more votes than the only candidate*, then the seat shall be
   considered vacant and the Board will be requested to apply provisions of
   the Bylaws to temporarily fill the vacant seat.


>From the highlighted, this was explicitly stated and can be interpreted to
be applicable if there was *only* *one* *candidate.* This was clearly not
the case for the Western Africa seat so the [*human, visible, touchable and
real*] candidate with the highest votes should be declared winner, not
a [*virtual
and invisible*], None of the Above, IMHO.

Best!

</>Tim

On May 17, 2018 5:19 PM, "Ashok" <ashok at afrinic.net> wrote:

Dear Members and Community,
Mt views have been sought on the matter under reference.
Please find same hereunder.

On 17/05/2018 14:04, B

*The Election Process and last AGMM.*

The appointment of Directors is carried out during an AGMM of the Company
?Art 13.1 of the constitution.

The election of the Directors is carried out in terms of Art 13.2 of the
constitution which refers expressly to the election process approved by the
Board.

Moreover  Art 10.2 of the Constitution refers to precedent applied during
an AFRINIC election and which de facto become part of the election
guidelines.

The election process  as it stands today is the one which was applied during
the elections held during the last AGMM without any opposition.

This is what it provides:

*9.2 Paper Ballot on Election Day*

The voting conducted during the Annual General Members' Meeting is carried
out via paper ballots containing a list of candidate names and a ballot
number. Prior to the vote, all members present or participants holding a
proxy will be requested to register and validate their membership status.

   - Voters should only vote for one candidate per category/region. Each
         mark on a ballot paper represents one vote. A ballot with
more than one
         mark per category/region will be considered spoilt, and not
be counted.
         - The ballot paper should provide voters with the option to not
         vote for any candidate (a.k.a. "None of the Above").
         - This will be a secret ballot election. An inclusion of any
         personal data on the ballot paper will invalidate the vote and will be
         counted as spoilt.
         - Elections will be closed as soon as the last member or proxy
         present in the meeting room casts his/her vote. Candidates
with the highest
         number of votes in each category will be declared winners.
         - In the event of a tie for an open position, voting for that
         position will be repeated (Only by paper ballot) the same day
until there
         is a winner.
         - All open positions shall be subject to an election process even
         if there is only one candidate. In that event, if the option
[none of the
         above] got more votes than the only candidate, then the seat shall be
         considered vacant and the Board will be requested to apply
         provisions of the Bylaws to temporarily fill the vacant seat

The last amendment of the election guidelines introduced the voting option
? None of the Above?. ?(Vide second bullet point above.)Those voters who
have cast their votes for ? None of the Above? have done so in compliance
with the prevailing  constitution  and these are thus valid votes. Every
voter was aware of the new option.

The election guidelines are clear as to what happens when the ? None of the
Above? option has a majority.- (Vide last bullet point above.)

The election guidelines must be read as a whole and all the provisions read
together.

Legal Counsel ?AFRINIC

17.05.2018
oubakar Barry wrote:

Hello Board and Legal Counsel,

Good that Omo spotted this.

It?s a matter of applying the board election process adopted by the board
according to section 13.2 of the bylaws.

https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process describes
the process and section 9 spells out how to interpret the results in the
case there are more than one candidate and in the case there is only one
candidate. These two cases are addressed separately and differently.

It?s important to hear from the Board and the Legal Counsel, as the
elections can be challenged.

Please advise.

Regards.

Boubakar

On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 5:24 PM, Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net> wrote:

> Greetings All,
>
> I am looking at the BoD election process and it seems to me that the
> recent e-mail from the Board Chair seeking nominations for vacant seats
> should not be extended to Western Africa.
>
> The particular clause I am referring to is in 9.2 -
> https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process
>
>
>    -
>    Elections will be closed as soon as the last member or proxy present
>    in the meeting room casts his/her vote. Candidates with the highest number
>    of votes in each category will be declared winners
>
> I see from the list for West Africa that the candidate with the highest
> number of votes should have been declared winner and this is Dr Ousmane
> Tessa.  (btw, Dr Adewale Adedokun needs his name spelt correctly)
>
>
> *Western Africa - Seat 2*
>
> Dr Adelawe Abedekon - 43
>
> Dr Ousmane Moussa Tessa - 56
>
> None of the above - 78
>
> *Result: The seat is vacant*
>
>
> The results from the other regions are valid and supported by the
> following clause as they had one candidate.
>
>
>    - All open positions shall be subject to an election process even if
>       there is only one candidate. In that event, if the option [none of the
>       above] got more votes than the only candidate, then the seat shall be
>       considered vacant and the Board will be requested to apply provisions of
>       the Bylaws to temporarily fill the vacant seat.
>
>
> Can AfriNIC and the nomcom please clarify?   We should not deprive Dr
> Tessa of a rightful win ?. especially in the circumstances we find
> ourselves.
>
> Omo
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>



_______________________________________________
Members-Discuss mailing
listMembers-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss


_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
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From noah at neo.co.tz  Fri May 18 08:41:29 2018
From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 11:41:29 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <E12E18F4-0ED7-4C9D-A39D-EF69DEA2718A@liquidtelecom.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
 <CAEqgTWYhKV3P8o52h+O-eEXUPchJRXBrzSojd_hidQs=Cy=BWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E12E18F4-0ED7-4C9D-A39D-EF69DEA2718A@liquidtelecom.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqgTWYsymgxEURXJ+QBCOS0WOy70e+9XPpftQH62MdJ0YnaaA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 5:38 PM, Ben Roberts <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com>
wrote:

> All,
> The election was run and winner declared. Majority of votes cast to have
> none of the candidates join the board.
>

So its pointless to have a nomcom in other-words and therefore AfriNIC will
be wasting members money to conduct elections which involves facilitating
members of nomcom to fly to meetings to conduct elections where no
candidate is elected.

Come on folks...

Noah
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From Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com  Fri May 18 09:07:48 2018
From: Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com (Ben Roberts)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 09:07:48 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <CAEqgTWYsymgxEURXJ+QBCOS0WOy70e+9XPpftQH62MdJ0YnaaA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
 <CAEqgTWYhKV3P8o52h+O-eEXUPchJRXBrzSojd_hidQs=Cy=BWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E12E18F4-0ED7-4C9D-A39D-EF69DEA2718A@liquidtelecom.com>,
 <CAEqgTWYsymgxEURXJ+QBCOS0WOy70e+9XPpftQH62MdJ0YnaaA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A846EB1D-74E3-40B7-951E-E9EB173DA95A@liquidtelecom.com>

Noah,

So its pointless to have a nomcom in other-words

It may not be pointless to have a nomcom but they certainly can run better elections.

AfriNIC will be wasting members money to conduct elections which involves facilitating members of nomcom to fly to meetings to conduct elections where no candidate is elected.

Yes one of the ways that Afrinic wastes lots of money flying people around. This contributes to why our fees are so high compared to other RIRs we are in.

Sent from my iPhone

On 18 May 2018, at 09:41, Noah <noah at neo.co.tz<mailto:noah at neo.co.tz>> wrote:



On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 5:38 PM, Ben Roberts <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
All,
The election was run and winner declared. Majority of votes cast to have none of the candidates join the board.

So its pointless to have a nomcom in other-words and therefore AfriNIC will be wasting members money to conduct elections which involves facilitating members of nomcom to fly to meetings to conduct elections where no candidate is elected.

Come on folks...

Noah
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From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com  Fri May 18 09:14:42 2018
From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 09:14:42 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <A846EB1D-74E3-40B7-951E-E9EB173DA95A@liquidtelecom.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
 <CAEqgTWYhKV3P8o52h+O-eEXUPchJRXBrzSojd_hidQs=Cy=BWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E12E18F4-0ED7-4C9D-A39D-EF69DEA2718A@liquidtelecom.com>,
 <CAEqgTWYsymgxEURXJ+QBCOS0WOy70e+9XPpftQH62MdJ0YnaaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A846EB1D-74E3-40B7-951E-E9EB173DA95A@liquidtelecom.com>
Message-ID: <HE1PR0301MB2570710E349A0F6F8CDC1DF3EE900@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>

My only question is why  the NomCom needs to be at the meetings at all.

Do we not live in a connected world ? where email, video conferencing, voice conferencing and other technologies are available to us?

I point out that RIPE does not even fund its PDP co-chairs to meetings ? because decisions are made on the list.

We have this bizarre idea that flying people all over the place is a good idea ? personally ? I think it?s a waste of time and members money ? for goodness sake ? we are here to promote the internet but can?t seem to figure out how to use it ourselves to cut our own costs?

Andrew


From: Ben Roberts [mailto:Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com]
Sent: 18 May 2018 12:08
To: Noah <noah at neo.co.tz>
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>; AfriNIC Discuss <members-discuss at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections

Noah,

So its pointless to have a nomcom in other-words

It may not be pointless to have a nomcom but they certainly can run better elections.

AfriNIC will be wasting members money to conduct elections which involves facilitating members of nomcom to fly to meetings to conduct elections where no candidate is elected.

Yes one of the ways that Afrinic wastes lots of money flying people around. This contributes to why our fees are so high compared to other RIRs we are in.
Sent from my iPhone

On 18 May 2018, at 09:41, Noah <noah at neo.co.tz<mailto:noah at neo.co.tz>> wrote:


On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 5:38 PM, Ben Roberts <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
All,
The election was run and winner declared. Majority of votes cast to have none of the candidates join the board.

So its pointless to have a nomcom in other-words and therefore AfriNIC will be wasting members money to conduct elections which involves facilitating members of nomcom to fly to meetings to conduct elections where no candidate is elected.

Come on folks...

Noah
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From mje at posix.co.za  Fri May 18 09:32:49 2018
From: mje at posix.co.za (Mark Elkins)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 11:32:49 +0200
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <A846EB1D-74E3-40B7-951E-E9EB173DA95A@liquidtelecom.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
 <CAEqgTWYhKV3P8o52h+O-eEXUPchJRXBrzSojd_hidQs=Cy=BWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E12E18F4-0ED7-4C9D-A39D-EF69DEA2718A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <CAEqgTWYsymgxEURXJ+QBCOS0WOy70e+9XPpftQH62MdJ0YnaaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A846EB1D-74E3-40B7-951E-E9EB173DA95A@liquidtelecom.com>
Message-ID: <833d0acd-a3d8-4d10-1306-ca41784792af@posix.co.za>



On 18/05/2018 11:07, Ben Roberts wrote:
> Noah,
>
>> So its pointless to have a nomcom in other-words
>
> It may not be pointless to have a nomcom but they certainly can run
> better elections.

NomCom this year had a bad deal. I'm not sure that had NomCom been made
up of any other people, whether it would have made any difference.
They were aboard the Titanic - they just didn't know it.
>
>> AfriNIC will be wasting members money to conduct elections which
>> involves facilitating members of nomcom to fly to meetings to conduct
>> elections where no candidate is elected.
>
> Yes one of the ways that Afrinic wastes lots of money flying people
> around. This contributes to why our fees are so high compared to other
> RIRs we are in.

Regarding Money and Meetings.

I would like to propose to the community and membership that AfriNIC
meetings are no longer free to attend - that we introduce a badge fee of
(say) US$100 in order to acquire the badge. However, I believe Members
(Registered, Associative and Resource alike) should be provided with
free tickets (up to two for Resource organisations, otherwise one
voucher per Registered or Associated) at the time of filling in their
advanced registration. Sponsors should also get up to two vouchers.
Registered speakers (and staff) should also get a voucher. If you
Register at the event or don't have a voucher - you pay the $100.

At Dakar, I noticed a huge amount of well dressed local people - that
arrived in rooms just before lunch vouchers were issues - and who
disappeared after lunch. I don't see why AfriNIC should have to feed the
free-loaders. This would have saved quite a bit.

This was discussed on the Board around 4 to 5 years ago but we thought
we could manage. I think it now needs to be re-introduced.
I know you have to pay to go to RIPE - and I presume other RIR meetings?

Comments? (Preferably from people who were at the Dakar meeting and who
saw this happening)


>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 18 May 2018, at 09:41, Noah <noah at neo.co.tz
> <mailto:noah at neo.co.tz>> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 5:38 PM, Ben Roberts
>> <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com
>> <mailto:Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     All,
>>     The election was run and winner declared. Majority of votes cast
>>     to have none of the candidates join the board.?
>>
>>
>> So its pointless to have a nomcom in other-words and therefore
>> AfriNIC will be wasting members money to conduct elections which
>> involves facilitating members of nomcom to fly to meetings to conduct
>> elections where no candidate is elected.
>>
>> Come on folks...
>>
>> Noah

-- 
Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
mje at posix.co.za       Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za

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From badru.ntege at nftconsult.com  Fri May 18 09:41:28 2018
From: badru.ntege at nftconsult.com (Badru Ntege)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 09:41:28 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <A846EB1D-74E3-40B7-951E-E9EB173DA95A@liquidtelecom.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
 <CAEqgTWYhKV3P8o52h+O-eEXUPchJRXBrzSojd_hidQs=Cy=BWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E12E18F4-0ED7-4C9D-A39D-EF69DEA2718A@liquidtelecom.com>,
 <CAEqgTWYsymgxEURXJ+QBCOS0WOy70e+9XPpftQH62MdJ0YnaaA@mail.gmail.com>,
 <A846EB1D-74E3-40B7-951E-E9EB173DA95A@liquidtelecom.com>
Message-ID: <B9231A45-7F4D-4F60-8311-38F6D7EE2EAE@nftconsult.com>



Sent from my iPhone

On 18 May 2018, at 12:10, Ben Roberts <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:

Noah,


Yes one of the ways that Afrinic wastes lots of money flying people around. This contributes to why our fees are so high compared to other RIRs we are in.

Sorry to get personal but for someone of your experience and looking at the financials over the last few years taunting the above line is pure misinformation.

Secondly a company of your size what you pay AFRINIC is probably a fraction of someone?s salary.

Fees are based on your consumption if your business is growing and you need more resources you not only make a justification to AFRINIC but also to the Business.



Sent from my iPhone

On 18 May 2018, at 09:41, Noah <noah at neo.co.tz<mailto:noah at neo.co.tz>> wrote:



On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 5:38 PM, Ben Roberts <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
All,
The election was run and winner declared. Majority of votes cast to have none of the candidates join the board.

So its pointless to have a nomcom in other-words and therefore AfriNIC will be wasting members money to conduct elections which involves facilitating members of nomcom to fly to meetings to conduct elections where no candidate is elected.

Come on folks...

Noah
_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
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From Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com  Fri May 18 09:51:17 2018
From: Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com (Ben Roberts)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 09:51:17 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <833d0acd-a3d8-4d10-1306-ca41784792af@posix.co.za>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
 <CAEqgTWYhKV3P8o52h+O-eEXUPchJRXBrzSojd_hidQs=Cy=BWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E12E18F4-0ED7-4C9D-A39D-EF69DEA2718A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <CAEqgTWYsymgxEURXJ+QBCOS0WOy70e+9XPpftQH62MdJ0YnaaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A846EB1D-74E3-40B7-951E-E9EB173DA95A@liquidtelecom.com>,
 <833d0acd-a3d8-4d10-1306-ca41784792af@posix.co.za>
Message-ID: <B0F58CB8-20EF-49B9-81BA-CDC4116B7FCB@liquidtelecom.com>

This is a fantastic idea Mark I support 100%.

There are a lot of areas to reduce the cost of these meetings. And the events team on the afrinic staff should be tasked by the board and CEO to come up with analysis of ways to cut costs of meetings.

Intra african air travel is very expensive and often cumbersome if you are not in Kenya, South Africa or Ethiopia which are the only nations whose national carriers fly to a decent number of destinations.

Using video conf to expand reach is a great benefit. Meetings could be extended into VC rooms in some of the ?innovation hubs? that are all over the continent.

Especially since we all in the Afrinic community have been building networks so fast to improve intra african connectivity.

If only the african airlines can follow our leadership and grow more and better routes to improve intra african travel.





Sent from my iPhone

On 18 May 2018, at 10:35, Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za<mailto:mje at posix.co.za>> wrote:



On 18/05/2018 11:07, Ben Roberts wrote:
Noah,

So its pointless to have a nomcom in other-words

It may not be pointless to have a nomcom but they certainly can run better elections.

NomCom this year had a bad deal. I'm not sure that had NomCom been made up of any other people, whether it would have made any difference.
They were aboard the Titanic - they just didn't know it.

AfriNIC will be wasting members money to conduct elections which involves facilitating members of nomcom to fly to meetings to conduct elections where no candidate is elected.

Yes one of the ways that Afrinic wastes lots of money flying people around. This contributes to why our fees are so high compared to other RIRs we are in.

Regarding Money and Meetings.

I would like to propose to the community and membership that AfriNIC meetings are no longer free to attend - that we introduce a badge fee of (say) US$100 in order to acquire the badge. However, I believe Members (Registered, Associative and Resource alike) should be provided with free tickets (up to two for Resource organisations, otherwise one voucher per Registered or Associated) at the time of filling in their advanced registration. Sponsors should also get up to two vouchers. Registered speakers (and staff) should also get a voucher. If you Register at the event or don't have a voucher - you pay the $100.

At Dakar, I noticed a huge amount of well dressed local people - that arrived in rooms just before lunch vouchers were issues - and who disappeared after lunch. I don't see why AfriNIC should have to feed the free-loaders. This would have saved quite a bit.

This was discussed on the Board around 4 to 5 years ago but we thought we could manage. I think it now needs to be re-introduced.
I know you have to pay to go to RIPE - and I presume other RIR meetings?

Comments? (Preferably from people who were at the Dakar meeting and who saw this happening)



Sent from my iPhone

On 18 May 2018, at 09:41, Noah <noah at neo.co.tz<mailto:noah at neo.co.tz>> wrote:



On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 5:38 PM, Ben Roberts <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
All,
The election was run and winner declared. Majority of votes cast to have none of the candidates join the board.

So its pointless to have a nomcom in other-words and therefore AfriNIC will be wasting members money to conduct elections which involves facilitating members of nomcom to fly to meetings to conduct elections where no candidate is elected.

Come on folks...

Noah


--
Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
mje at posix.co.za<mailto:mje at posix.co.za>       Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za<https://ftth.posix.co.za>


_______________________________________________
Members-Discuss mailing list
Members-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Members-Discuss at afrinic.net>
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
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From badru.ntege at nftconsult.com  Fri May 18 09:54:47 2018
From: badru.ntege at nftconsult.com (Badru Ntege)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 09:54:47 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <833d0acd-a3d8-4d10-1306-ca41784792af@posix.co.za>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
 <CAEqgTWYhKV3P8o52h+O-eEXUPchJRXBrzSojd_hidQs=Cy=BWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E12E18F4-0ED7-4C9D-A39D-EF69DEA2718A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <CAEqgTWYsymgxEURXJ+QBCOS0WOy70e+9XPpftQH62MdJ0YnaaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A846EB1D-74E3-40B7-951E-E9EB173DA95A@liquidtelecom.com>,
 <833d0acd-a3d8-4d10-1306-ca41784792af@posix.co.za>
Message-ID: <EEA8CCFE-9BC1-41B1-A463-A8A26AB76C02@nftconsult.com>

Mark

I see we are starting to divide the haves and have nots.  The internet is for everyone regardless of how deep your pockets are.

Let?s remember that the big privileged members sell services to the community who are the real owners of AfriNIC.

What I see now is these privileged owners wanting to claim ownership and saying the poor should not be allowed in.

Africa is not North America  nor is it Europe or Asia.  It?s Africa with its unique challenges. Let?s stop these  comparisons.

Regards.

Sent from my iPhone

On 18 May 2018, at 12:36, Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za<mailto:mje at posix.co.za>> wrote:



On 18/05/2018 11:07, Ben Roberts wrote:
Noah,

So its pointless to have a nomcom in other-words

It may not be pointless to have a nomcom but they certainly can run better elections.

NomCom this year had a bad deal. I'm not sure that had NomCom been made up of any other people, whether it would have made any difference.
They were aboard the Titanic - they just didn't know it.

AfriNIC will be wasting members money to conduct elections which involves facilitating members of nomcom to fly to meetings to conduct elections where no candidate is elected.

Yes one of the ways that Afrinic wastes lots of money flying people around. This contributes to why our fees are so high compared to other RIRs we are in.

Regarding Money and Meetings.

I would like to propose to the community and membership that AfriNIC meetings are no longer free to attend - that we introduce a badge fee of (say) US$100 in order to acquire the badge. However, I believe Members (Registered, Associative and Resource alike) should be provided with free tickets (up to two for Resource organisations, otherwise one voucher per Registered or Associated) at the time of filling in their advanced registration. Sponsors should also get up to two vouchers. Registered speakers (and staff) should also get a voucher. If you Register at the event or don't have a voucher - you pay the $100.

At Dakar, I noticed a huge amount of well dressed local people - that arrived in rooms just before lunch vouchers were issues - and who disappeared after lunch. I don't see why AfriNIC should have to feed the free-loaders. This would have saved quite a bit.

This was discussed on the Board around 4 to 5 years ago but we thought we could manage. I think it now needs to be re-introduced.
I know you have to pay to go to RIPE - and I presume other RIR meetings?

Comments? (Preferably from people who were at the Dakar meeting and who saw this happening)



Sent from my iPhone

On 18 May 2018, at 09:41, Noah <noah at neo.co.tz<mailto:noah at neo.co.tz>> wrote:



On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 5:38 PM, Ben Roberts <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
All,
The election was run and winner declared. Majority of votes cast to have none of the candidates join the board.

So its pointless to have a nomcom in other-words and therefore AfriNIC will be wasting members money to conduct elections which involves facilitating members of nomcom to fly to meetings to conduct elections where no candidate is elected.

Come on folks...

Noah


--
Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
mje at posix.co.za<mailto:mje at posix.co.za>       Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za


_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
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From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com  Fri May 18 09:53:43 2018
From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 09:53:43 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <B9231A45-7F4D-4F60-8311-38F6D7EE2EAE@nftconsult.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
 <CAEqgTWYhKV3P8o52h+O-eEXUPchJRXBrzSojd_hidQs=Cy=BWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E12E18F4-0ED7-4C9D-A39D-EF69DEA2718A@liquidtelecom.com>,
 <CAEqgTWYsymgxEURXJ+QBCOS0WOy70e+9XPpftQH62MdJ0YnaaA@mail.gmail.com>,
 <A846EB1D-74E3-40B7-951E-E9EB173DA95A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <B9231A45-7F4D-4F60-8311-38F6D7EE2EAE@nftconsult.com>
Message-ID: <HE1PR0301MB25706B838D84A7BFFA499D25EE900@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Actually Badru - it's not.

171 trips taken to the end of Q3 -

62 Staff trips - excluding the 24 staff flown to AIS - totalling 86 trips.

Average cost of a trip by the financials in Q3 - $2049.50 per trip - or $176,247 in staff trips excluding board alone.  In total we had spent $350,504 on travel by the end of Q3 - considering AFRINIC's current member base that equates to (roughly):

$117.50 per Member or to put that another way:

8.3% of an extra small LIR's annual fees
5.3% of a very small LIR's annual fees
1.8% of a small members fees

And so it goes on - but those three categories make up the vast majority of AFRINIC members in terms of numbers.

By the time the year came to a close - those percentages had changed - with the average rough travel cost totalling roughly $350 per member, which again, using the small members where the base actually sits equates to:

25% of an extra small members fees
16% of a very small members fees
5.5% of a small members fees

And in total - the travel expenses of AFRINIC racked up 10.7% of the total expenses - and anyone who knows anything about business should know - percentages like this - are not insignificant numbers.

Andrew



From: Badru Ntege [mailto:badru.ntege at nftconsult.com]
Sent: 18 May 2018 12:41
To: Ben Roberts <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com>
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>; AfriNIC Discuss <members-discuss at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections


Sent from my iPhone

On 18 May 2018, at 12:10, Ben Roberts <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
Noah,


Yes one of the ways that Afrinic wastes lots of money flying people around. This contributes to why our fees are so high compared to other RIRs we are in.
Sorry to get personal but for someone of your experience and looking at the financials over the last few years taunting the above line is pure misinformation.

Secondly a company of your size what you pay AFRINIC is probably a fraction of someone's salary.

Fees are based on your consumption if your business is growing and you need more resources you not only make a justification to AFRINIC but also to the Business.




Sent from my iPhone

On 18 May 2018, at 09:41, Noah <noah at neo.co.tz<mailto:noah at neo.co.tz>> wrote:


On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 5:38 PM, Ben Roberts <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
All,
The election was run and winner declared. Majority of votes cast to have none of the candidates join the board.

So its pointless to have a nomcom in other-words and therefore AfriNIC will be wasting members money to conduct elections which involves facilitating members of nomcom to fly to meetings to conduct elections where no candidate is elected.

Come on folks...

Noah
_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
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From Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com  Fri May 18 09:55:56 2018
From: Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com (Ben Roberts)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 09:55:56 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <B9231A45-7F4D-4F60-8311-38F6D7EE2EAE@nftconsult.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
 <CAEqgTWYhKV3P8o52h+O-eEXUPchJRXBrzSojd_hidQs=Cy=BWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E12E18F4-0ED7-4C9D-A39D-EF69DEA2718A@liquidtelecom.com>,
 <CAEqgTWYsymgxEURXJ+QBCOS0WOy70e+9XPpftQH62MdJ0YnaaA@mail.gmail.com>,
 <A846EB1D-74E3-40B7-951E-E9EB173DA95A@liquidtelecom.com>,
 <B9231A45-7F4D-4F60-8311-38F6D7EE2EAE@nftconsult.com>
Message-ID: <2377A965-BF03-459F-8D6D-709782EF96C9@liquidtelecom.com>

Badru,
We are also a RIPE member and have been since before Afrinic existed.

Our fees with Afrinic are about 15 times what they would be with RIPE for equivalent IP resources. And RIPE gives us more services.

Service delivery from Afrinic was also historically poor but improved hugely under the leadership of new CEO Mr Barrett.

So I?m speaking from experience as an Afrinic member.

Are you an LIR these days?  Is your experience of Afrinic value for money better than mine ?

Sent from my iPhone

On 18 May 2018, at 10:39, Badru Ntege <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com<mailto:badru.ntege at nftconsult.com>> wrote:



Sent from my iPhone

On 18 May 2018, at 12:10, Ben Roberts <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:

Noah,


Yes one of the ways that Afrinic wastes lots of money flying people around. This contributes to why our fees are so high compared to other RIRs we are in.

Sorry to get personal but for someone of your experience and looking at the financials over the last few years taunting the above line is pure misinformation.

Secondly a company of your size what you pay AFRINIC is probably a fraction of someone?s salary.

Fees are based on your consumption if your business is growing and you need more resources you not only make a justification to AFRINIC but also to the Business.



Sent from my iPhone

On 18 May 2018, at 09:41, Noah <noah at neo.co.tz<mailto:noah at neo.co.tz>> wrote:



On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 5:38 PM, Ben Roberts <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
All,
The election was run and winner declared. Majority of votes cast to have none of the candidates join the board.

So its pointless to have a nomcom in other-words and therefore AfriNIC will be wasting members money to conduct elections which involves facilitating members of nomcom to fly to meetings to conduct elections where no candidate is elected.

Come on folks...

Noah
_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
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From noah at neo.co.tz  Fri May 18 09:56:50 2018
From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 12:56:50 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <A846EB1D-74E3-40B7-951E-E9EB173DA95A@liquidtelecom.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
 <CAEqgTWYhKV3P8o52h+O-eEXUPchJRXBrzSojd_hidQs=Cy=BWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E12E18F4-0ED7-4C9D-A39D-EF69DEA2718A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <CAEqgTWYsymgxEURXJ+QBCOS0WOy70e+9XPpftQH62MdJ0YnaaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A846EB1D-74E3-40B7-951E-E9EB173DA95A@liquidtelecom.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqgTWYr2-BUBwT-_FJ3Fjg=GgyzEbfGzxC+biHm0Vx7K6jLQQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 12:07 PM, Ben Roberts <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com
> wrote:

> Noah,
>
> So its pointless to have a nomcom in other-words
>
>
> It may not be pointless to have a nomcom
>

I am not yet satisfied that nomcom got us candidates to elect and one got
more votes than the other but another virtual candidate called None of the
above was declared winner.

The bylaws and election process when read in entirely only affect slates
with a single candidate not slates with more than one candidate and as such
for the western African seat, the candidate with most votes won and must be
declared.



> but they certainly can run better elections.
>

And what would that be?

-- 
*./noah*
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From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com  Fri May 18 09:57:01 2018
From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 09:57:01 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <EEA8CCFE-9BC1-41B1-A463-A8A26AB76C02@nftconsult.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
 <CAEqgTWYhKV3P8o52h+O-eEXUPchJRXBrzSojd_hidQs=Cy=BWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E12E18F4-0ED7-4C9D-A39D-EF69DEA2718A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <CAEqgTWYsymgxEURXJ+QBCOS0WOy70e+9XPpftQH62MdJ0YnaaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A846EB1D-74E3-40B7-951E-E9EB173DA95A@liquidtelecom.com>,
 <833d0acd-a3d8-4d10-1306-ca41784792af@posix.co.za>
 <EEA8CCFE-9BC1-41B1-A463-A8A26AB76C02@nftconsult.com>
Message-ID: <HE1PR0301MB2570668763DE18F5FAE0F8D7EE900@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Badru - what I see - is that you seem to be believing that the large members should subsidize the small members - except - that isn't what actually ends up happening.

The small members end up paying a *FAR* larger percentage of their fees to this wastage - and at the end of the day - no matter if it is a small member or a large member - the costs are still passed to the end user at the end of the day.  So - at the end of the day - it is the poor who end up paying for wastage - it's just not a direct expense.

There are no free lunches - someone has to cover the costs - and cutting the expenses of AFRINIC helps the entire continent.

Andrew


From: Badru Ntege [mailto:badru.ntege at nftconsult.com]
Sent: 18 May 2018 12:55
To: mje at posix.co.za
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>; AfriNIC Discuss <members-discuss at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections

Mark

I see we are starting to divide the haves and have nots.  The internet is for everyone regardless of how deep your pockets are.

Let's remember that the big privileged members sell services to the community who are the real owners of AfriNIC.

What I see now is these privileged owners wanting to claim ownership and saying the poor should not be allowed in.

Africa is not North America  nor is it Europe or Asia.  It's Africa with its unique challenges. Let's stop these  comparisons.

Regards.
Sent from my iPhone

On 18 May 2018, at 12:36, Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za<mailto:mje at posix.co.za>> wrote:



On 18/05/2018 11:07, Ben Roberts wrote:
Noah,

So its pointless to have a nomcom in other-words

It may not be pointless to have a nomcom but they certainly can run better elections.

NomCom this year had a bad deal. I'm not sure that had NomCom been made up of any other people, whether it would have made any difference.
They were aboard the Titanic - they just didn't know it.


AfriNIC will be wasting members money to conduct elections which involves facilitating members of nomcom to fly to meetings to conduct elections where no candidate is elected.

Yes one of the ways that Afrinic wastes lots of money flying people around. This contributes to why our fees are so high compared to other RIRs we are in.

Regarding Money and Meetings.

I would like to propose to the community and membership that AfriNIC meetings are no longer free to attend - that we introduce a badge fee of (say) US$100 in order to acquire the badge. However, I believe Members (Registered, Associative and Resource alike) should be provided with free tickets (up to two for Resource organisations, otherwise one voucher per Registered or Associated) at the time of filling in their advanced registration. Sponsors should also get up to two vouchers. Registered speakers (and staff) should also get a voucher. If you Register at the event or don't have a voucher - you pay the $100.

At Dakar, I noticed a huge amount of well dressed local people - that arrived in rooms just before lunch vouchers were issues - and who disappeared after lunch. I don't see why AfriNIC should have to feed the free-loaders. This would have saved quite a bit.

This was discussed on the Board around 4 to 5 years ago but we thought we could manage. I think it now needs to be re-introduced.
I know you have to pay to go to RIPE - and I presume other RIR meetings?

Comments? (Preferably from people who were at the Dakar meeting and who saw this happening)




Sent from my iPhone

On 18 May 2018, at 09:41, Noah <noah at neo.co.tz<mailto:noah at neo.co.tz>> wrote:


On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 5:38 PM, Ben Roberts <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
All,
The election was run and winner declared. Majority of votes cast to have none of the candidates join the board.

So its pointless to have a nomcom in other-words and therefore AfriNIC will be wasting members money to conduct elections which involves facilitating members of nomcom to fly to meetings to conduct elections where no candidate is elected.

Come on folks...

Noah



--

Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa

mje at posix.co.za<mailto:mje at posix.co.za>       Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496

For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za<https://ftth.posix.co.za>
_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss<https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
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From Boubakar.Barry at wacren.net  Fri May 18 09:58:11 2018
From: Boubakar.Barry at wacren.net (Boubakar Barry)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 09:58:11 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR0301MB25706B838D84A7BFFA499D25EE900@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
 <CAEqgTWYhKV3P8o52h+O-eEXUPchJRXBrzSojd_hidQs=Cy=BWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E12E18F4-0ED7-4C9D-A39D-EF69DEA2718A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <CAEqgTWYsymgxEURXJ+QBCOS0WOy70e+9XPpftQH62MdJ0YnaaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A846EB1D-74E3-40B7-951E-E9EB173DA95A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <B9231A45-7F4D-4F60-8311-38F6D7EE2EAE@nftconsult.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25706B838D84A7BFFA499D25EE900@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAGrBSSiFWXk0ygtvVozJhoKTK1+QCQg8AUEgsJVGH6oTzwoayQ@mail.gmail.com>

Please start a new thread if you want to discuss this further.

This one is not about analysis of travel costs and meeting registration
fees.

Boubakar


On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 9:53 AM, Andrew Alston <
Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com> wrote:

> Actually Badru ? it?s not.
>
>
>
> 171 trips taken to the end of Q3 ?
>
>
>
> 62 Staff trips ? excluding the 24 staff flown to AIS ? totalling 86 trips.
>
>
>
> Average cost of a trip by the financials in Q3 - $2049.50 per trip ? or
> $176,247 in staff trips excluding board alone.  In total we had spent
> $350,504 on travel by the end of Q3 ? considering AFRINIC?s current member
> base that equates to (roughly):
>
>
>
> $117.50 per Member or to put that another way:
>
>
>
> 8.3% of an extra small LIR?s annual fees
>
> 5.3% of a very small LIR?s annual fees
>
> 1.8% of a small members fees
>
>
>
> And so it goes on ? but those three categories make up the vast majority
> of AFRINIC members in terms of numbers.
>
>
>
> By the time the year came to a close ? those percentages had changed ?
> with the average rough travel cost totalling roughly $350 per member, which
> again, using the small members where the base actually sits equates to:
>
>
>
> 25% of an extra small members fees
>
> 16% of a very small members fees
>
> 5.5% of a small members fees
>
>
>
> And in total ? the travel expenses of AFRINIC racked up 10.7% of the total
> expenses ? and anyone who knows anything about business should know ?
> percentages like this ? are not insignificant numbers.
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Badru Ntege [mailto:badru.ntege at nftconsult.com]
> *Sent:* 18 May 2018 12:41
> *To:* Ben Roberts <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com>
> *Cc:* General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>;
> AfriNIC Discuss <members-discuss at afrinic.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for
> Western Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On 18 May 2018, at 12:10, Ben Roberts <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com>
> wrote:
>
> Noah,
>
>
>
>
>
> Yes one of the ways that Afrinic wastes lots of money flying people
> around. This contributes to why our fees are so high compared to other RIRs
> we are in.
>
> Sorry to get personal but for someone of your experience and looking at
> the financials over the last few years taunting the above line is pure
> misinformation.
>
>
>
> Secondly a company of your size what you pay AFRINIC is probably a
> fraction of someone?s salary.
>
>
>
> Fees are based on your consumption if your business is growing and you
> need more resources you not only make a justification to AFRINIC but also
> to the Business.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On 18 May 2018, at 09:41, Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 5:38 PM, Ben Roberts <
> Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com> wrote:
>
> All,
>
> The election was run and winner declared. Majority of votes cast to have
> none of the candidates join the board.
>
>
>
> So its pointless to have a nomcom in other-words and therefore AfriNIC
> will be wasting members money to conduct elections which involves
> facilitating members of nomcom to fly to meetings to conduct elections
> where no candidate is elected.
>
>
>
> Come on folks...
>
>
>
> Noah
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
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From Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com  Fri May 18 10:03:01 2018
From: Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com (Ben Roberts)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 10:03:01 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <CAEqgTWYr2-BUBwT-_FJ3Fjg=GgyzEbfGzxC+biHm0Vx7K6jLQQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
 <CAEqgTWYhKV3P8o52h+O-eEXUPchJRXBrzSojd_hidQs=Cy=BWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E12E18F4-0ED7-4C9D-A39D-EF69DEA2718A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <CAEqgTWYsymgxEURXJ+QBCOS0WOy70e+9XPpftQH62MdJ0YnaaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A846EB1D-74E3-40B7-951E-E9EB173DA95A@liquidtelecom.com>,
 <CAEqgTWYr2-BUBwT-_FJ3Fjg=GgyzEbfGzxC+biHm0Vx7K6jLQQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9488B4BF-938C-4BF5-9985-29BF55F46025@liquidtelecom.com>

Noah,

The Nomcom are on a tough gig as Mark says. It maybe wasn?t their fault not to get more candidates.

I know quite a few very qualified and good and reputable candidates who would love to stand and give leadership to Afrinic. But those people don?t want to touch it given the state Afrinic is in right now.


Kind regards.

Ben.

Sent from my iPhone

On 18 May 2018, at 10:57, Noah <noah at neo.co.tz<mailto:noah at neo.co.tz>> wrote:



On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 12:07 PM, Ben Roberts <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
Noah,

So its pointless to have a nomcom in other-words

It may not be pointless to have a nomcom

I am not yet satisfied that nomcom got us candidates to elect and one got more votes than the other but another virtual candidate called None of the above was declared winner.

The bylaws and election process when read in entirely only affect slates with a single candidate not slates with more than one candidate and as such for the western African seat, the candidate with most votes won and must be declared.


but they certainly can run better elections.

And what would that be?

--
./noah
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From mje at posix.co.za  Fri May 18 10:03:56 2018
From: mje at posix.co.za (Mark Elkins)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 12:03:56 +0200
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <EEA8CCFE-9BC1-41B1-A463-A8A26AB76C02@nftconsult.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
 <CAEqgTWYhKV3P8o52h+O-eEXUPchJRXBrzSojd_hidQs=Cy=BWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E12E18F4-0ED7-4C9D-A39D-EF69DEA2718A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <CAEqgTWYsymgxEURXJ+QBCOS0WOy70e+9XPpftQH62MdJ0YnaaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A846EB1D-74E3-40B7-951E-E9EB173DA95A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <833d0acd-a3d8-4d10-1306-ca41784792af@posix.co.za>
 <EEA8CCFE-9BC1-41B1-A463-A8A26AB76C02@nftconsult.com>
Message-ID: <388006be-2779-85c3-c568-e128a05d7ed1@posix.co.za>

The AfriNIC meeting is primarily for its membership though the community
is included - they (the community) are potential (paying) membership.
Its certainly paid for by its membership and not the (non-membership
part of) community.

You don't need to know how AfriNIC works in order to use the Internet.

So can we start seeing AfNOG removing all fees please at their meetings?
Everyone should be freely (as in - no cost)? allowed to attend the
training sessions.



On 18/05/2018 11:54, Badru Ntege wrote:
> Mark
>
> I see we are starting to divide the haves and have nots. ?The internet
> is for everyone regardless of how deep your pockets are.?
>
> Let?s remember that the big privileged members sell services to the
> community who are the real owners of AfriNIC.?
>
> What I see now is these privileged owners wanting to claim ownership
> and saying the poor should not be allowed in. ?
>
> Africa is not North America ?nor is it Europe or Asia. ?It?s Africa
> with its unique challenges. Let?s stop these ?comparisons.?
>
> Regards.?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 18 May 2018, at 12:36, Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za
> <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 18/05/2018 11:07, Ben Roberts wrote:
>>> Noah,
>>>
>>>> So its pointless to have a nomcom in other-words
>>>
>>> It may not be pointless to have a nomcom but they certainly can run
>>> better elections.
>>
>> NomCom this year had a bad deal. I'm not sure that had NomCom been
>> made up of any other people, whether it would have made any difference.
>> They were aboard the Titanic - they just didn't know it.
>>>
>>>> AfriNIC will be wasting members money to conduct elections which
>>>> involves facilitating members of nomcom to fly to meetings to
>>>> conduct elections where no candidate is elected.
>>>
>>> Yes one of the ways that Afrinic wastes lots of money flying people
>>> around. This contributes to why our fees are so high compared to
>>> other RIRs we are in.
>>
>> Regarding Money and Meetings.
>>
>> I would like to propose to the community and membership that AfriNIC
>> meetings are no longer free to attend - that we introduce a badge fee
>> of (say) US$100 in order to acquire the badge. However, I believe
>> Members (Registered, Associative and Resource alike) should be
>> provided with free tickets (up to two for Resource organisations,
>> otherwise one voucher per Registered or Associated) at the time of
>> filling in their advanced registration. Sponsors should also get up
>> to two vouchers. Registered speakers (and staff) should also get a
>> voucher. If you Register at the event or don't have a voucher - you
>> pay the $100.
>>
>> At Dakar, I noticed a huge amount of well dressed local people - that
>> arrived in rooms just before lunch vouchers were issues - and who
>> disappeared after lunch. I don't see why AfriNIC should have to feed
>> the free-loaders. This would have saved quite a bit.
>>
>> This was discussed on the Board around 4 to 5 years ago but we
>> thought we could manage. I think it now needs to be re-introduced.
>> I know you have to pay to go to RIPE - and I presume other RIR meetings?
>>
>> Comments? (Preferably from people who were at the Dakar meeting and
>> who saw this happening)
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On 18 May 2018, at 09:41, Noah <noah at neo.co.tz
>>> <mailto:noah at neo.co.tz>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 5:38 PM, Ben Roberts
>>>> <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com
>>>> <mailto:Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     All,
>>>>     The election was run and winner declared. Majority of votes
>>>>     cast to have none of the candidates join the board.?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So its pointless to have a nomcom in other-words and therefore
>>>> AfriNIC will be wasting members money to conduct elections which
>>>> involves facilitating members of nomcom to fly to meetings to
>>>> conduct elections where no candidate is elected.
>>>>
>>>> Come on folks...
>>>>
>>>> Noah
>>
>> -- 
>> Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
>> mje at posix.co.za       Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
>> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

-- 
Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
mje at posix.co.za       Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za

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From Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com  Fri May 18 10:10:56 2018
From: Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com (Ben Roberts)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 10:10:56 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR0301MB2570668763DE18F5FAE0F8D7EE900@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
 <CAEqgTWYhKV3P8o52h+O-eEXUPchJRXBrzSojd_hidQs=Cy=BWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E12E18F4-0ED7-4C9D-A39D-EF69DEA2718A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <CAEqgTWYsymgxEURXJ+QBCOS0WOy70e+9XPpftQH62MdJ0YnaaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A846EB1D-74E3-40B7-951E-E9EB173DA95A@liquidtelecom.com>,
 <833d0acd-a3d8-4d10-1306-ca41784792af@posix.co.za>
 <EEA8CCFE-9BC1-41B1-A463-A8A26AB76C02@nftconsult.com>,
 <HE1PR0301MB2570668763DE18F5FAE0F8D7EE900@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <45F480EB-0067-4163-BFF5-6362F651899A@liquidtelecom.com>

Andrew

Andrew wrote >> There are no free lunches

- I must disagree with you here. It seems there are exactly free lunches at the recent Afrinic meeting, as we have just heard observations from Mark Elkins of seeing the meeting fill up with freeloaders around lunchtime.

Sent from my iPhone

On 18 May 2018, at 10:59, Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:


There are no free lunches ? someone has to cover the costs ? and cutting the expenses of AFRINIC helps the entire continent.
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From noah at neo.co.tz  Fri May 18 10:14:44 2018
From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 13:14:44 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <388006be-2779-85c3-c568-e128a05d7ed1@posix.co.za>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
 <CAEqgTWYhKV3P8o52h+O-eEXUPchJRXBrzSojd_hidQs=Cy=BWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E12E18F4-0ED7-4C9D-A39D-EF69DEA2718A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <CAEqgTWYsymgxEURXJ+QBCOS0WOy70e+9XPpftQH62MdJ0YnaaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A846EB1D-74E3-40B7-951E-E9EB173DA95A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <833d0acd-a3d8-4d10-1306-ca41784792af@posix.co.za>
 <EEA8CCFE-9BC1-41B1-A463-A8A26AB76C02@nftconsult.com>
 <388006be-2779-85c3-c568-e128a05d7ed1@posix.co.za>
Message-ID: <CAEqgTWamSg7DoRs4ECh9BcoQcgyKj+wuh0ySjvxpZCZiWEFd+A@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 1:03 PM, Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za> wrote:

> The AfriNIC meeting is primarily for its membership though the community
> is included - they (the community) are potential (paying) membership. Its
> certainly paid for by its membership and not the (non-membership part of)
> community.
>
We normally have atleast 3 individuals from my employer who attend both
AfriNIC meetings and they form part of the membership and community. Same
is true with most members who send part of their staff to this meetings and
they form the entire community.

Dont attempt to separate the two please because they are the same.

You don't need to know how AfriNIC works in order to use the Internet.
>

Your point being...

So can we start seeing AfNOG removing all fees please at their meetings?
> Everyone should be freely (as in - no cost)  allowed to attend the training
> sessions.
>
This is ridiculous.

The delegates the AfNOG trains are mostly people who work for AfriNIC
members. My employer does send our staff to AfNOG trainings and some of us
also volunteer to train and transfer knowledge to delegates who mostly are
part of the engineering work-force of some AfriNIC member.

So dont talk unless you know what you are taking about.


>
>
> On 18/05/2018 11:54, Badru Ntege wrote:
>
> Mark
>
> I see we are starting to divide the haves and have nots.  The internet is
> for everyone regardless of how deep your pockets are.
>
> Let?s remember that the big privileged members sell services to the
> community who are the real owners of AfriNIC.
>
> What I see now is these privileged owners wanting to claim ownership and
> saying the poor should not be allowed in.
>
> Africa is not North America  nor is it Europe or Asia.  It?s Africa with
> its unique challenges. Let?s stop these  comparisons.
>
> Regards.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 18 May 2018, at 12:36, Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 18/05/2018 11:07, Ben Roberts wrote:
>
> Noah,
>
> So its pointless to have a nomcom in other-words
>
>
> It may not be pointless to have a nomcom but they certainly can run better
> elections.
>
>
> NomCom this year had a bad deal. I'm not sure that had NomCom been made up
> of any other people, whether it would have made any difference.
> They were aboard the Titanic - they just didn't know it.
>
>
> AfriNIC will be wasting members money to conduct elections which involves
> facilitating members of nomcom to fly to meetings to conduct elections
> where no candidate is elected.
>
>
> Yes one of the ways that Afrinic wastes lots of money flying people
> around. This contributes to why our fees are so high compared to other RIRs
> we are in.
>
>
> Regarding Money and Meetings.
>
> I would like to propose to the community and membership that AfriNIC
> meetings are no longer free to attend - that we introduce a badge fee of
> (say) US$100 in order to acquire the badge. However, I believe Members
> (Registered, Associative and Resource alike) should be provided with free
> tickets (up to two for Resource organisations, otherwise one voucher per
> Registered or Associated) at the time of filling in their advanced
> registration. Sponsors should also get up to two vouchers. Registered
> speakers (and staff) should also get a voucher. If you Register at the
> event or don't have a voucher - you pay the $100.
>
> At Dakar, I noticed a huge amount of well dressed local people - that
> arrived in rooms just before lunch vouchers were issues - and who
> disappeared after lunch. I don't see why AfriNIC should have to feed the
> free-loaders. This would have saved quite a bit.
>
> This was discussed on the Board around 4 to 5 years ago but we thought we
> could manage. I think it now needs to be re-introduced.
> I know you have to pay to go to RIPE - and I presume other RIR meetings?
>
> Comments? (Preferably from people who were at the Dakar meeting and who
> saw this happening)
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 18 May 2018, at 09:41, Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 5:38 PM, Ben Roberts <
> Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com> wrote:
>
>> All,
>> The election was run and winner declared. Majority of votes cast to have
>> none of the candidates join the board.
>>
>
> So its pointless to have a nomcom in other-words and therefore AfriNIC
> will be wasting members money to conduct elections which involves
> facilitating members of nomcom to fly to meetings to conduct elections
> where no candidate is elected.
>
> Come on folks...
>
> Noah
>
>
> --
> Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africamje at posix.co.za       Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
> --
> Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africamje at posix.co.za       Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>


-- 
*./noah*
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From noah at neo.co.tz  Fri May 18 10:31:01 2018
From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 13:31:01 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <9488B4BF-938C-4BF5-9985-29BF55F46025@liquidtelecom.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
 <CAEqgTWYhKV3P8o52h+O-eEXUPchJRXBrzSojd_hidQs=Cy=BWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E12E18F4-0ED7-4C9D-A39D-EF69DEA2718A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <CAEqgTWYsymgxEURXJ+QBCOS0WOy70e+9XPpftQH62MdJ0YnaaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A846EB1D-74E3-40B7-951E-E9EB173DA95A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <CAEqgTWYr2-BUBwT-_FJ3Fjg=GgyzEbfGzxC+biHm0Vx7K6jLQQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <9488B4BF-938C-4BF5-9985-29BF55F46025@liquidtelecom.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqgTWZNzzknusj+H-1vbwAZ+7dny0NbUhd9AZrp6JbctdrfRw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 1:03 PM, Ben Roberts <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com>
wrote:

> Noah,
>
> The Nomcom are on a tough gig as Mark says. It maybe wasn?t their fault
> not to get more candidates.
>

Nomcom work is only tough, if a certain segment of the membership decides
not to support a certain candidate which is their right but then goes on to
affect other qualified candidates.

I think every region should elect their own candidate and when on the
board, they serve based on their fiduciary duties.


> I know quite a few very qualified and good and reputable candidates who
> would love to stand and give leadership to Afrinic.
>


And who are these?


But those people don?t want to touch it given the state Afrinic is in right
> now.
>

They dont deserve to be. You can not claim to want to be part of the
solution only when there are no challenges.


>
> Kind regards.
>
> Ben.
>
>
Noah
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From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com  Fri May 18 10:39:12 2018
From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 10:39:12 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <CAEqgTWZNzzknusj+H-1vbwAZ+7dny0NbUhd9AZrp6JbctdrfRw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
 <CAEqgTWYhKV3P8o52h+O-eEXUPchJRXBrzSojd_hidQs=Cy=BWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E12E18F4-0ED7-4C9D-A39D-EF69DEA2718A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <CAEqgTWYsymgxEURXJ+QBCOS0WOy70e+9XPpftQH62MdJ0YnaaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A846EB1D-74E3-40B7-951E-E9EB173DA95A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <CAEqgTWYr2-BUBwT-_FJ3Fjg=GgyzEbfGzxC+biHm0Vx7K6jLQQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <9488B4BF-938C-4BF5-9985-29BF55F46025@liquidtelecom.com>
 <CAEqgTWZNzzknusj+H-1vbwAZ+7dny0NbUhd9AZrp6JbctdrfRw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <HE1PR0301MB257048DE0D4F5B95AE8A8F9AEE900@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>

Oh Noah,

That?s not at all the case ? this is a case of ? why would an individual want to spend years on the board when boards are dominated by majority vote ? and if you are in the minority have your hands tied and are unable to do a damn thing.

Why would members want to sit on a board that has ? in direct conflict of interest ? refused to subject themselves to a vote of no confidence by the community ? that has refused any semblance of transparency ? that dodged questions about financials being asked against the Q3 report saying they were only discussing the AFS ? while knowing the AFS does not contain the breakdowns they were being questioned on (which by the way are not in the Q4 report) ? that has publicly stated that they are not bound by the Mauritian code of corporate governance because, since it?s not a legal requirement, its optional.

Why would members want to sit on a board that has lost the faith of the community, when the community has demonstrated (loudly and clearly during the last vote) that they view what is happening as abhorrent ? that my friend ? doesn?t exactly add to your CV ? in fact it?s the equivalent of putting a big black mark on your CV.

Until this board starts operating transparently, within the bounds of corporate governance, and acting in a manner that is consistent with accountability to members with an implicit acknowledgement that the members fund, and own this organisation ? you will continue to have problems finding decent board candidates.

That is my view on this

Andrew


From: Noah [mailto:noah at neo.co.tz]
Sent: 18 May 2018 13:31
To: Ben Roberts <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com>
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>; AfriNIC Discuss <members-discuss at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections



On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 1:03 PM, Ben Roberts <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
Noah,

The Nomcom are on a tough gig as Mark says. It maybe wasn?t their fault not to get more candidates.

Nomcom work is only tough, if a certain segment of the membership decides not to support a certain candidate which is their right but then goes on to affect other qualified candidates.

I think every region should elect their own candidate and when on the board, they serve based on their fiduciary duties.


I know quite a few very qualified and good and reputable candidates who would love to stand and give leadership to Afrinic.


And who are these?


But those people don?t want to touch it given the state Afrinic is in right now.

They dont deserve to be. You can not claim to want to be part of the solution only when there are no challenges.



Kind regards.

Ben.

Noah
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From saul at enetworks.co.za  Fri May 18 11:41:08 2018
From: saul at enetworks.co.za (Saul Stein)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 13:41:08 +0200 (SAST)
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
	Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <CAEqgTWamSg7DoRs4ECh9BcoQcgyKj+wuh0ySjvxpZCZiWEFd+A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
 <CAEqgTWYhKV3P8o52h+O-eEXUPchJRXBrzSojd_hidQs=Cy=BWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E12E18F4-0ED7-4C9D-A39D-EF69DEA2718A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <CAEqgTWYsymgxEURXJ+QBCOS0WOy70e+9XPpftQH62MdJ0YnaaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A846EB1D-74E3-40B7-951E-E9EB173DA95A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <833d0acd-a3d8-4d10-1306-ca41784792af@posix.co.za>
 <EEA8CCFE-9BC1-41B1-A463-A8A26AB76C02@nftconsult.com>
 <388006be-2779-85c3-c568-e128a05d7ed1@posix.co.za>
 <CAEqgTWamSg7DoRs4ECh9BcoQcgyKj+wuh0ySjvxpZCZiWEFd+A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2ee401d3ee9d$1ce19ba0$56a4d2e0$@enetworks.co.za>

There are many ways to address the issue.



Badges are allocated based on membership size (not that I agree with the 
membership size anyway). Smaller organisations aren?t sending more than one 
person anyway, the bigger the organisation, the bigger the budget so they 
can send more people and get more badges.



To an extent, the membership base and larger community are ultimately 
different. The membership is funding the community. It is no going to work 
if the community demand X but the membership can only afford and prepared to 
pay for Y.



I agree, this is a separate thread and agree that the finance and events 
team should be tasked to look at the expenditure of these events and ways to 
curtail that.



From: Noah [mailto:noah at neo.co.tz]
Sent: 18 May 2018 12:15 PM
To: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za>
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>; AfriNIC 
Discuss <members-discuss at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western 
Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections







On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 1:03 PM, Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za 
<mailto:mje at posix.co.za> > wrote:

The AfriNIC meeting is primarily for its membership though the community is 
included - they (the community) are potential (paying) membership. Its 
certainly paid for by its membership and not the (non-membership part of) 
community.

We normally have atleast 3 individuals from my employer who attend both 
AfriNIC meetings and they form part of the membership and community. Same is 
true with most members who send part of their staff to this meetings and 
they form the entire community.



Dont attempt to separate the two please because they are the same.



You don't need to know how AfriNIC works in order to use the Internet.



Your point being...



So can we start seeing AfNOG removing all fees please at their meetings? 
Everyone should be freely (as in - no cost)  allowed to attend the training 
sessions.

This is ridiculous.



The delegates the AfNOG trains are mostly people who work for AfriNIC 
members. My employer does send our staff to AfNOG trainings and some of us 
also volunteer to train and transfer knowledge to delegates who mostly are 
part of the engineering work-force of some AfriNIC member.



So dont talk unless you know what you are taking about.







On 18/05/2018 11:54, Badru Ntege wrote:

Mark



I see we are starting to divide the haves and have nots.  The internet is 
for everyone regardless of how deep your pockets are.



Let?s remember that the big privileged members sell services to the 
community who are the real owners of AfriNIC.



What I see now is these privileged owners wanting to claim ownership and 
saying the poor should not be allowed in.



Africa is not North America  nor is it Europe or Asia.  It?s Africa with its 
unique challenges. Let?s stop these  comparisons.



Regards.

Sent from my iPhone


On 18 May 2018, at 12:36, Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za 
<mailto:mje at posix.co.za> > wrote:





On 18/05/2018 11:07, Ben Roberts wrote:

Noah,



So its pointless to have a nomcom in other-words



It may not be pointless to have a nomcom but they certainly can run better 
elections.


NomCom this year had a bad deal. I'm not sure that had NomCom been made up 
of any other people, whether it would have made any difference.
They were aboard the Titanic - they just didn't know it.





AfriNIC will be wasting members money to conduct elections which involves 
facilitating members of nomcom to fly to meetings to conduct elections where 
no candidate is elected.



Yes one of the ways that Afrinic wastes lots of money flying people around. 
This contributes to why our fees are so high compared to other RIRs we are 
in.


Regarding Money and Meetings.

I would like to propose to the community and membership that AfriNIC 
meetings are no longer free to attend - that we introduce a badge fee of 
(say) US$100 in order to acquire the badge. However, I believe Members 
(Registered, Associative and Resource alike) should be provided with free 
tickets (up to two for Resource organisations, otherwise one voucher per 
Registered or Associated) at the time of filling in their advanced 
registration. Sponsors should also get up to two vouchers. Registered 
speakers (and staff) should also get a voucher. If you Register at the event 
or don't have a voucher - you pay the $100.

At Dakar, I noticed a huge amount of well dressed local people - that 
arrived in rooms just before lunch vouchers were issues - and who 
disappeared after lunch. I don't see why AfriNIC should have to feed the 
free-loaders. This would have saved quite a bit.

This was discussed on the Board around 4 to 5 years ago but we thought we 
could manage. I think it now needs to be re-introduced.
I know you have to pay to go to RIPE - and I presume other RIR meetings?

Comments? (Preferably from people who were at the Dakar meeting and who saw 
this happening)







Sent from my iPhone


On 18 May 2018, at 09:41, Noah <noah at neo.co.tz <mailto:noah at neo.co.tz> > 
wrote:





On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 5:38 PM, Ben Roberts <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com 
<mailto:Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com> > wrote:

All,

The election was run and winner declared. Majority of votes cast to have 
none of the candidates join the board.



So its pointless to have a nomcom in other-words and therefore AfriNIC will 
be wasting members money to conduct elections which involves facilitating 
members of nomcom to fly to meetings to conduct elections where no candidate 
is elected.



Come on folks...



Noah





-- 
Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>        Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: 
+27.826010496
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za

_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss





-- 
Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>        Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: 
+27.826010496
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za


_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss




-- 

./noah

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From badru.ntege at nftconsult.com  Fri May 18 12:11:00 2018
From: badru.ntege at nftconsult.com (Badru Ntege)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 12:11:00 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR0301MB25706B838D84A7BFFA499D25EE900@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
 <CAEqgTWYhKV3P8o52h+O-eEXUPchJRXBrzSojd_hidQs=Cy=BWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E12E18F4-0ED7-4C9D-A39D-EF69DEA2718A@liquidtelecom.com>,
 <CAEqgTWYsymgxEURXJ+QBCOS0WOy70e+9XPpftQH62MdJ0YnaaA@mail.gmail.com>,
 <A846EB1D-74E3-40B7-951E-E9EB173DA95A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <B9231A45-7F4D-4F60-8311-38F6D7EE2EAE@nftconsult.com>,
 <HE1PR0301MB25706B838D84A7BFFA499D25EE900@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <6E56C61D-2715-4B9E-9C13-03820D55754A@nftconsult.com>

Andrew

Sent from my iPhone

On 18 May 2018, at 12:55, Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:

Actually Badru ? it?s not.
Snip

And in total ? the travel expenses of AFRINIC racked up 10.7% of the total expenses ? and anyone who knows anything about business should know ? percentages like this ? are not insignificant numbers.


Anyone who really understands the job to be done by AFRINIC would not be giving it a business benchmark and would understand the level of outreach needed in our region to fulfill our objectives to the Africa region community.

It?s user community first then business. If that does not work for some players then they should not be in the internet business. It has always been about the users and will continue that way.

Badru

Andrew



From: Badru Ntege [mailto:badru.ntege at nftconsult.com]
Sent: 18 May 2018 12:41
To: Ben Roberts <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com>>
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>; AfriNIC Discuss <members-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:members-discuss at afrinic.net>>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections


Sent from my iPhone

On 18 May 2018, at 12:10, Ben Roberts <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
Noah,


Yes one of the ways that Afrinic wastes lots of money flying people around. This contributes to why our fees are so high compared to other RIRs we are in.
Sorry to get personal but for someone of your experience and looking at the financials over the last few years taunting the above line is pure misinformation.

Secondly a company of your size what you pay AFRINIC is probably a fraction of someone?s salary.

Fees are based on your consumption if your business is growing and you need more resources you not only make a justification to AFRINIC but also to the Business.




Sent from my iPhone

On 18 May 2018, at 09:41, Noah <noah at neo.co.tz<mailto:noah at neo.co.tz>> wrote:


On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 5:38 PM, Ben Roberts <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
All,
The election was run and winner declared. Majority of votes cast to have none of the candidates join the board.

So its pointless to have a nomcom in other-words and therefore AfriNIC will be wasting members money to conduct elections which involves facilitating members of nomcom to fly to meetings to conduct elections where no candidate is elected.

Come on folks...

Noah
_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
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From badru.ntege at nftconsult.com  Fri May 18 12:51:32 2018
From: badru.ntege at nftconsult.com (Badru Ntege)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 12:51:32 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <HE1PR0301MB257048DE0D4F5B95AE8A8F9AEE900@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
 <CAEqgTWYhKV3P8o52h+O-eEXUPchJRXBrzSojd_hidQs=Cy=BWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E12E18F4-0ED7-4C9D-A39D-EF69DEA2718A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <CAEqgTWYsymgxEURXJ+QBCOS0WOy70e+9XPpftQH62MdJ0YnaaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A846EB1D-74E3-40B7-951E-E9EB173DA95A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <CAEqgTWYr2-BUBwT-_FJ3Fjg=GgyzEbfGzxC+biHm0Vx7K6jLQQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <9488B4BF-938C-4BF5-9985-29BF55F46025@liquidtelecom.com>
 <CAEqgTWZNzzknusj+H-1vbwAZ+7dny0NbUhd9AZrp6JbctdrfRw@mail.gmail.com>,
 <HE1PR0301MB257048DE0D4F5B95AE8A8F9AEE900@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <AA53D0BB-EB6E-492B-86B1-64937B725DC5@nftconsult.com>

Andrew


Let?s not abuse the word ?community ? there are 92 members from South Africa mostly which if I remember rightly you had influence on 65 members and I think you personally controlled 18 or was it 13 votes out of a membership of over 1500 members.

That does not tell me community.

It smells like something else.

Using technicalities to achieve some as yet unclear objective.




Sent from my iPhone

On 18 May 2018, at 13:42, Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:

Oh Noah,

That?s not at all the case ? this is a case of ? why would an individual want to spend years on the board when boards are dominated by majority vote ? and if you are in the minority have your hands tied and are unable to do a damn thing.

Why would members want to sit on a board that has ? in direct conflict of interest ? refused to subject themselves to a vote of no confidence by the community ? that has refused any semblance of transparency ? that dodged questions about financials being asked against the Q3 report saying they were only discussing the AFS ? while knowing the AFS does not contain the breakdowns they were being questioned on (which by the way are not in the Q4 report) ? that has publicly stated that they are not bound by the Mauritian code of corporate governance because, since it?s not a legal requirement, its optional.

Why would members want to sit on a board that has lost the faith of the community, when the community has demonstrated (loudly and clearly during the last vote) that they view what is happening as abhorrent ? that my friend ? doesn?t exactly add to your CV ? in fact it?s the equivalent of putting a big black mark on your CV.

Until this board starts operating transparently, within the bounds of corporate governance, and acting in a manner that is consistent with accountability to members with an implicit acknowledgement that the members fund, and own this organisation ? you will continue to have problems finding decent board candidates.

That is my view on this

Andrew


From: Noah [mailto:noah at neo.co.tz]
Sent: 18 May 2018 13:31
To: Ben Roberts <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com>>
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>; AfriNIC Discuss <members-discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:members-discuss at afrinic.net>>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections



On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 1:03 PM, Ben Roberts <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
Noah,

The Nomcom are on a tough gig as Mark says. It maybe wasn?t their fault not to get more candidates.

Nomcom work is only tough, if a certain segment of the membership decides not to support a certain candidate which is their right but then goes on to affect other qualified candidates.

I think every region should elect their own candidate and when on the board, they serve based on their fiduciary duties.


I know quite a few very qualified and good and reputable candidates who would love to stand and give leadership to Afrinic.


And who are these?


But those people don?t want to touch it given the state Afrinic is in right now.

They dont deserve to be. You can not claim to want to be part of the solution only when there are no challenges.



Kind regards.

Ben.

Noah
_______________________________________________
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https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
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From madomey at hotmail.com  Fri May 18 14:41:56 2018
From: madomey at hotmail.com (Marcus K. G. Adomey)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 14:41:56 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <388006be-2779-85c3-c568-e128a05d7ed1@posix.co.za>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
 <CAEqgTWYhKV3P8o52h+O-eEXUPchJRXBrzSojd_hidQs=Cy=BWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E12E18F4-0ED7-4C9D-A39D-EF69DEA2718A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <CAEqgTWYsymgxEURXJ+QBCOS0WOy70e+9XPpftQH62MdJ0YnaaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A846EB1D-74E3-40B7-951E-E9EB173DA95A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <833d0acd-a3d8-4d10-1306-ca41784792af@posix.co.za>
 <EEA8CCFE-9BC1-41B1-A463-A8A26AB76C02@nftconsult.com>,
 <388006be-2779-85c3-c568-e128a05d7ed1@posix.co.za>
Message-ID: <AM0PR0602MB3603738C5A06082F8E931072B9900@AM0PR0602MB3603.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Mark,

Let us stick to the subject matter being discussed in this thread. Your digression is not helpful and unnecessary.  A sustained minimum level of intellectual discourse is needed to restore objectivity and hence strengthen the institutions of our community. Let us come out with more constructive contributions than antagonistic insinuations.


Thank you for your understanding,



Marcus


Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>

________________________________
From: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za>
Sent: Friday, May 18, 2018 10:03:56 AM
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC; AfriNIC Discuss
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections


The AfriNIC meeting is primarily for its membership though the community is included - they (the community) are potential (paying) membership. Its certainly paid for by its membership and not the (non-membership part of) community.

You don't need to know how AfriNIC works in order to use the Internet.

So can we start seeing AfNOG removing all fees please at their meetings? Everyone should be freely (as in - no cost)  allowed to attend the training sessions.


On 18/05/2018 11:54, Badru Ntege wrote:
Mark

I see we are starting to divide the haves and have nots.  The internet is for everyone regardless of how deep your pockets are.

Let?s remember that the big privileged members sell services to the community who are the real owners of AfriNIC.

What I see now is these privileged owners wanting to claim ownership and saying the poor should not be allowed in.

Africa is not North America  nor is it Europe or Asia.  It?s Africa with its unique challenges. Let?s stop these  comparisons.

Regards.

Sent from my iPhone

On 18 May 2018, at 12:36, Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za<mailto:mje at posix.co.za>> wrote:



On 18/05/2018 11:07, Ben Roberts wrote:
Noah,

So its pointless to have a nomcom in other-words

It may not be pointless to have a nomcom but they certainly can run better elections.

NomCom this year had a bad deal. I'm not sure that had NomCom been made up of any other people, whether it would have made any difference.
They were aboard the Titanic - they just didn't know it.

AfriNIC will be wasting members money to conduct elections which involves facilitating members of nomcom to fly to meetings to conduct elections where no candidate is elected.

Yes one of the ways that Afrinic wastes lots of money flying people around. This contributes to why our fees are so high compared to other RIRs we are in.

Regarding Money and Meetings.

I would like to propose to the community and membership that AfriNIC meetings are no longer free to attend - that we introduce a badge fee of (say) US$100 in order to acquire the badge. However, I believe Members (Registered, Associative and Resource alike) should be provided with free tickets (up to two for Resource organisations, otherwise one voucher per Registered or Associated) at the time of filling in their advanced registration. Sponsors should also get up to two vouchers. Registered speakers (and staff) should also get a voucher. If you Register at the event or don't have a voucher - you pay the $100.

At Dakar, I noticed a huge amount of well dressed local people - that arrived in rooms just before lunch vouchers were issues - and who disappeared after lunch. I don't see why AfriNIC should have to feed the free-loaders. This would have saved quite a bit.

This was discussed on the Board around 4 to 5 years ago but we thought we could manage. I think it now needs to be re-introduced.
I know you have to pay to go to RIPE - and I presume other RIR meetings?

Comments? (Preferably from people who were at the Dakar meeting and who saw this happening)



Sent from my iPhone

On 18 May 2018, at 09:41, Noah <noah at neo.co.tz<mailto:noah at neo.co.tz>> wrote:



On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 5:38 PM, Ben Roberts <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
All,
The election was run and winner declared. Majority of votes cast to have none of the candidates join the board.

So its pointless to have a nomcom in other-words and therefore AfriNIC will be wasting members money to conduct elections which involves facilitating members of nomcom to fly to meetings to conduct elections where no candidate is elected.

Come on folks...

Noah


--
Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
mje at posix.co.za<mailto:mje at posix.co.za>       Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za


_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss


--
Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
mje at posix.co.za<mailto:mje at posix.co.za>       Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za

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From amelnaud at gmail.com  Fri May 18 15:51:21 2018
From: amelnaud at gmail.com (Arnaud AMELINA)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 15:51:21 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <2377A965-BF03-459F-8D6D-709782EF96C9@liquidtelecom.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
 <CAEqgTWYhKV3P8o52h+O-eEXUPchJRXBrzSojd_hidQs=Cy=BWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E12E18F4-0ED7-4C9D-A39D-EF69DEA2718A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <CAEqgTWYsymgxEURXJ+QBCOS0WOy70e+9XPpftQH62MdJ0YnaaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A846EB1D-74E3-40B7-951E-E9EB173DA95A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <B9231A45-7F4D-4F60-8311-38F6D7EE2EAE@nftconsult.com>
 <2377A965-BF03-459F-8D6D-709782EF96C9@liquidtelecom.com>
Message-ID: <CAGDMR_fcETtu7d1AnE1PWDhKdm8+S=NuLqgCMcOERF6_LXH24A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Roberts,

Humm !  Good to hear that your organization specifically sees an
improvement in AFRINIC services under the not so new CEO.

These things are better measured through members satisfaction survey, audit
reports, financial statements and even the CEO perfomance evaluation
through a board report.

Management of the organisation doesnt seem so satisfactory to this end.

In all cases, if management and governance were not so chaotic, services
could have been much better and the community healthier.

Organizations live, actors change, facts and history tell the truth.

Arnaud


Le ven. 18 mai 2018 09:56, Ben Roberts <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com> a
?crit :

> Badru,
> We are also a RIPE member and have been since before Afrinic existed.
>
> Our fees with Afrinic are about 15 times what they would be with RIPE for
> equivalent IP resources. And RIPE gives us more services.
>
> Service delivery from Afrinic was also historically poor but improved
> hugely under the leadership of new CEO Mr Barrett.
>
> So I?m speaking from experience as an Afrinic member.
>
> Are you an LIR these days?  Is your experience of Afrinic value for money
> better than mine ?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 18 May 2018, at 10:39, Badru Ntege <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 18 May 2018, at 12:10, Ben Roberts <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com>
> wrote:
>
> Noah,
>
>
>
> Yes one of the ways that Afrinic wastes lots of money flying people
> around. This contributes to why our fees are so high compared to other RIRs
> we are in.
>
> Sorry to get personal but for someone of your experience and looking at
> the financials over the last few years taunting the above line is pure
> misinformation.
>
> Secondly a company of your size what you pay AFRINIC is probably a
> fraction of someone?s salary.
>
> Fees are based on your consumption if your business is growing and you
> need more resources you not only make a justification to AFRINIC but also
> to the Business.
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 18 May 2018, at 09:41, Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 5:38 PM, Ben Roberts <
> Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com> wrote:
>
>> All,
>> The election was run and winner declared. Majority of votes cast to have
>> none of the candidates join the board.
>>
>
> So its pointless to have a nomcom in other-words and therefore AfriNIC
> will be wasting members money to conduct elections which involves
> facilitating members of nomcom to fly to meetings to conduct elections
> where no candidate is elected.
>
> Come on folks...
>
> Noah
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
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From uffa_modey at yahoo.com  Fri May 18 17:31:19 2018
From: uffa_modey at yahoo.com (Uffa Modey)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 17:31:19 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <388006be-2779-85c3-c568-e128a05d7ed1@posix.co.za>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
 <CAEqgTWYhKV3P8o52h+O-eEXUPchJRXBrzSojd_hidQs=Cy=BWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E12E18F4-0ED7-4C9D-A39D-EF69DEA2718A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <CAEqgTWYsymgxEURXJ+QBCOS0WOy70e+9XPpftQH62MdJ0YnaaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A846EB1D-74E3-40B7-951E-E9EB173DA95A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <833d0acd-a3d8-4d10-1306-ca41784792af@posix.co.za>
 <EEA8CCFE-9BC1-41B1-A463-A8A26AB76C02@nftconsult.com>
 <388006be-2779-85c3-c568-e128a05d7ed1@posix.co.za>
Message-ID: <1158565695.2804529.1526664679463@mail.yahoo.com>

"You don't need to know how Afrinic works in order to use the Internet "

The Internet is for everyone!
Discussions relevant to the use of the Internet should be inclusive of all stakeholders in the multistakeholder model of Internet Governance.?
One would think that the discussion should be that more members of civil society should be encouraged to attend these public meeting
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 11:05 AM, Mark Elkins<mje at posix.co.za> wrote:   _______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
  
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From uffa_modey at yahoo.com  Fri May 18 17:32:56 2018
From: uffa_modey at yahoo.com (Uffa Modey)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 17:32:56 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <45F480EB-0067-4163-BFF5-6362F651899A@liquidtelecom.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
 <CAEqgTWYhKV3P8o52h+O-eEXUPchJRXBrzSojd_hidQs=Cy=BWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E12E18F4-0ED7-4C9D-A39D-EF69DEA2718A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <CAEqgTWYsymgxEURXJ+QBCOS0WOy70e+9XPpftQH62MdJ0YnaaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A846EB1D-74E3-40B7-951E-E9EB173DA95A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <833d0acd-a3d8-4d10-1306-ca41784792af@posix.co.za>
 <EEA8CCFE-9BC1-41B1-A463-A8A26AB76C02@nftconsult.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB2570668763DE18F5FAE0F8D7EE900@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <45F480EB-0067-4163-BFF5-6362F651899A@liquidtelecom.com>
Message-ID: <824997251.2809847.1526664776574@mail.yahoo.com>

They are not freeloaders. They are AFRICANS

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 11:11 AM, Ben Roberts<Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com> wrote:   _______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
  
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From mje at posix.co.za  Fri May 18 18:01:46 2018
From: mje at posix.co.za (Mark Elkins)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 20:01:46 +0200
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <824997251.2809847.1526664776574@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
 <CAEqgTWYhKV3P8o52h+O-eEXUPchJRXBrzSojd_hidQs=Cy=BWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E12E18F4-0ED7-4C9D-A39D-EF69DEA2718A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <CAEqgTWYsymgxEURXJ+QBCOS0WOy70e+9XPpftQH62MdJ0YnaaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A846EB1D-74E3-40B7-951E-E9EB173DA95A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <833d0acd-a3d8-4d10-1306-ca41784792af@posix.co.za>
 <EEA8CCFE-9BC1-41B1-A463-A8A26AB76C02@nftconsult.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB2570668763DE18F5FAE0F8D7EE900@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <45F480EB-0067-4163-BFF5-6362F651899A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <824997251.2809847.1526664776574@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <5f1f1422-e83f-0581-8aa6-99064cc5ad94@posix.co.za>

I've no idea if you were in Dakar. I was.

One person who was chatted to admitted she was a dress maker and was
there for the free lunch. She otherwise had no interest in the
conference - not even about putting up a web site to sell her products.
She was not the only one. Yes, she was a local African. I take my hat
off to the locals. They dressed well so easily blended in. Actually,
that helped give them away. Most of the AfriNIC regulars wore T-shirts
or more casual clothing and carried bags or laptops.


On 18/05/2018 19:32, Uffa Modey via Community-Discuss wrote:
> They are not freeloaders. They are AFRICANS
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature>
>
>     On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 11:11 AM, Ben Roberts
>     <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com> wrote:
>     _______________________________________________
>     Community-Discuss mailing list
>     Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>     https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
-- 
Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
mje at posix.co.za       Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za

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From Boubakar.Barry at wacren.net  Fri May 18 18:37:01 2018
From: Boubakar.Barry at wacren.net (Boubakar Barry)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 18:37:01 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <5f1f1422-e83f-0581-8aa6-99064cc5ad94@posix.co.za>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
 <CAEqgTWYhKV3P8o52h+O-eEXUPchJRXBrzSojd_hidQs=Cy=BWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E12E18F4-0ED7-4C9D-A39D-EF69DEA2718A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <CAEqgTWYsymgxEURXJ+QBCOS0WOy70e+9XPpftQH62MdJ0YnaaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A846EB1D-74E3-40B7-951E-E9EB173DA95A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <833d0acd-a3d8-4d10-1306-ca41784792af@posix.co.za>
 <EEA8CCFE-9BC1-41B1-A463-A8A26AB76C02@nftconsult.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB2570668763DE18F5FAE0F8D7EE900@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <45F480EB-0067-4163-BFF5-6362F651899A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <824997251.2809847.1526664776574@mail.yahoo.com>
 <5f1f1422-e83f-0581-8aa6-99064cc5ad94@posix.co.za>
Message-ID: <CAGrBSSjtFs0ZsmvMYEsA9MDw25OF4PKmkPd4EeCAP0OH-yP7_w@mail.gmail.com>

Do the people going crazy about salad and desert in Dakar know who paid for
the lunches, coffee breaks, welcome reception and gala dinner?

Please, can we stop this nonsense here and move it to another thread where
people interested can express their views, suggestions, etc.?

We are discussing more important things in this thread.

Boubakar

On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 6:01 PM, Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za> wrote:

> I've no idea if you were in Dakar. I was.
>
> One person who was chatted to admitted she was a dress maker and was there
> for the free lunch. She otherwise had no interest in the conference - not
> even about putting up a web site to sell her products. She was not the only
> one. Yes, she was a local African. I take my hat off to the locals. They
> dressed well so easily blended in. Actually, that helped give them away.
> Most of the AfriNIC regulars wore T-shirts or more casual clothing and
> carried bags or laptops.
>
> On 18/05/2018 19:32, Uffa Modey via Community-Discuss wrote:
>
> They are not freeloaders. They are AFRICANS
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
> <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature>
>
> On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 11:11 AM, Ben Roberts
> <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com> <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com> wrote:
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
> --
> Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africamje at posix.co.za       Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
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From virtual.borg at gmail.com  Fri May 18 20:56:53 2018
From: virtual.borg at gmail.com (Chevalier du Borg)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2018 00:56:53 +0400
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <2377A965-BF03-459F-8D6D-709782EF96C9@liquidtelecom.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
 <CAEqgTWYhKV3P8o52h+O-eEXUPchJRXBrzSojd_hidQs=Cy=BWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E12E18F4-0ED7-4C9D-A39D-EF69DEA2718A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <CAEqgTWYsymgxEURXJ+QBCOS0WOy70e+9XPpftQH62MdJ0YnaaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A846EB1D-74E3-40B7-951E-E9EB173DA95A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <B9231A45-7F4D-4F60-8311-38F6D7EE2EAE@nftconsult.com>
 <2377A965-BF03-459F-8D6D-709782EF96C9@liquidtelecom.com>
Message-ID: <CAH5aO8eRqpWOxG5gc2wKY0hGrRcyGxg1CN1v3o_trck9dex_qg@mail.gmail.com>

Le ven. 18 mai 2018 ? 13:57, Ben Roberts <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com> a
?crit :

>
> Service delivery from Afrinic was also historically poor but improved
> hugely under the leadership of new CEO Mr Barrett.
>


This is HUGE claim. Can you provide some fact and detail to back this up?
Especially comparative to last CEO?


3 year ago, a RIDICULOUS thing start on this mailing list: everything bad
with AFRINIC was fault of old CEO and old board. New CEO and new board are
saviour.

Seem people already make up their mind based on whether they like somebody
or not. Fact be damn.


>
> So I?m speaking from experience as an Afrinic member.
>
> Are you an LIR these days?  Is your experience of Afrinic value for money
> better than mine ?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 18 May 2018, at 10:39, Badru Ntege <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 18 May 2018, at 12:10, Ben Roberts <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com>
> wrote:
>
> Noah,
>
>
>
> Yes one of the ways that Afrinic wastes lots of money flying people
> around. This contributes to why our fees are so high compared to other RIRs
> we are in.
>
> Sorry to get personal but for someone of your experience and looking at
> the financials over the last few years taunting the above line is pure
> misinformation.
>
> Secondly a company of your size what you pay AFRINIC is probably a
> fraction of someone?s salary.
>
> Fees are based on your consumption if your business is growing and you
> need more resources you not only make a justification to AFRINIC but also
> to the Business.
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 18 May 2018, at 09:41, Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 5:38 PM, Ben Roberts <
> Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com> wrote:
>
>> All,
>> The election was run and winner declared. Majority of votes cast to have
>> none of the candidates join the board.
>>
>
> So its pointless to have a nomcom in other-words and therefore AfriNIC
> will be wasting members money to conduct elections which involves
> facilitating members of nomcom to fly to meetings to conduct elections
> where no candidate is elected.
>
> Come on folks...
>
> Noah
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>


-- 
Borg le Chevalier
___________________________________
"Common sense is what tells us the world is flat"
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From virtual.borg at gmail.com  Fri May 18 21:00:40 2018
From: virtual.borg at gmail.com (Chevalier du Borg)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2018 01:00:40 +0400
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <9488B4BF-938C-4BF5-9985-29BF55F46025@liquidtelecom.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
 <CAEqgTWYhKV3P8o52h+O-eEXUPchJRXBrzSojd_hidQs=Cy=BWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E12E18F4-0ED7-4C9D-A39D-EF69DEA2718A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <CAEqgTWYsymgxEURXJ+QBCOS0WOy70e+9XPpftQH62MdJ0YnaaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A846EB1D-74E3-40B7-951E-E9EB173DA95A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <CAEqgTWYr2-BUBwT-_FJ3Fjg=GgyzEbfGzxC+biHm0Vx7K6jLQQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <9488B4BF-938C-4BF5-9985-29BF55F46025@liquidtelecom.com>
Message-ID: <CAH5aO8cXEa+vi1_u83K8ybq-469R9e6+Lbe80iyXnh+sfiObwA@mail.gmail.com>

Le ven. 18 mai 2018 ? 14:05, Ben Roberts <Ben.Roberts at liquidtelecom.com> a
?crit :

>
> I know quite a few very qualified and good and reputable candidates who
> would love to stand and give leadership to Afrinic. But those people don?t
> want to touch it given the state Afrinic is in right now.
>


And these deplorable state is 100% lack of leadership at board and not
lack of leadership at AFRINIC the company correct?


-- 
Borg le Chevalier
___________________________________
"Common sense is what tells us the world is flat"
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From noah at neo.co.tz  Fri May 18 20:43:16 2018
From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2018 23:43:16 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <5f1f1422-e83f-0581-8aa6-99064cc5ad94@posix.co.za>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
 <CAEqgTWYhKV3P8o52h+O-eEXUPchJRXBrzSojd_hidQs=Cy=BWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E12E18F4-0ED7-4C9D-A39D-EF69DEA2718A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <CAEqgTWYsymgxEURXJ+QBCOS0WOy70e+9XPpftQH62MdJ0YnaaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A846EB1D-74E3-40B7-951E-E9EB173DA95A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <833d0acd-a3d8-4d10-1306-ca41784792af@posix.co.za>
 <EEA8CCFE-9BC1-41B1-A463-A8A26AB76C02@nftconsult.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB2570668763DE18F5FAE0F8D7EE900@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <45F480EB-0067-4163-BFF5-6362F651899A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <824997251.2809847.1526664776574@mail.yahoo.com>
 <5f1f1422-e83f-0581-8aa6-99064cc5ad94@posix.co.za>
Message-ID: <CAEqgTWau+ihELDDpH5fOZeXakx9Xk=X4he4E=kTL1t9PtCreZg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, 18 May 2018, 9:04 p.m. Mark Elkins, <mje at posix.co.za> wrote:

> I've no idea if you were in Dakar. I was.
>
> One person who was chatted to admitted she was a dress maker and was there
> for the free lunch. She otherwise had no interest in the conference - not
> even about putting up a web site to sell her products. She was not the only
> one. Yes, she was a local African. I take my hat off to the locals. They
> dressed well so easily blended in. Actually, that helped give them away.
> Most of the AfriNIC regulars wore T-shirts or more casual clothing and
> carried bags or laptops.
>
We need to find you something to keep you busy in the next meetings to save
you from this food related concerns.

For goodness sake, Its our custom in Africa to welcome vistors into our
homes and functions to feast together with us and share food as a
celebration of kinship.

The invention of fire brought humans together but its food that brought us
even more closer together as people.

Its rather bazar that of all things, folks we would consider as seniors
with full of wisdom from years of experience are wining about people eating
food.

I bet to some people even drinking-water would cost someone dying with a
thirst some dime.

Money will indeed continue to corrupt us as a people and we will loose our
human values.

No one in Dakar starved even though a few curious visitors from the public
who hard of the meeting came around.

Noah
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From virtual.borg at gmail.com  Fri May 18 21:11:02 2018
From: virtual.borg at gmail.com (Chevalier du Borg)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2018 01:11:02 +0400
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <833d0acd-a3d8-4d10-1306-ca41784792af@posix.co.za>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
 <CAEqgTWYhKV3P8o52h+O-eEXUPchJRXBrzSojd_hidQs=Cy=BWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E12E18F4-0ED7-4C9D-A39D-EF69DEA2718A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <CAEqgTWYsymgxEURXJ+QBCOS0WOy70e+9XPpftQH62MdJ0YnaaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A846EB1D-74E3-40B7-951E-E9EB173DA95A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <833d0acd-a3d8-4d10-1306-ca41784792af@posix.co.za>
Message-ID: <CAH5aO8dSzNxgj3TOkMpMMckgUnf1PL1TquRwf5jQS1--3WHmzQ@mail.gmail.com>

Le ven. 18 mai 2018 ? 13:34, Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za> a ?crit :

>
> Regarding Money and Meetings.
>
> I would like to propose to the community and membership that AfriNIC
> meetings are no longer free to attend - that we introduce a badge fee of
> (say) US$100 in order to acquire the badge.
>

I agree need to impose some cost
$100  = about 50,000 in Central African Francs is bit high especially for
local


Question: Is AFRINIC meeting the way it is worth pay $100 for?

A choice may be to not provision any lunch during the meeting but still
leave it free. If  CEO can give us strategy to ran a meeting so it cost the
company nothing from budget, that will be ok too.

-- 
Borg le Chevalier
___________________________________
"Common sense is what tells us the world is flat"
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From mje at posix.co.za  Sat May 19 07:58:44 2018
From: mje at posix.co.za (Mark Elkins)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2018 09:58:44 +0200
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <CAH5aO8dSzNxgj3TOkMpMMckgUnf1PL1TquRwf5jQS1--3WHmzQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <A4572854-D9DE-4F4C-BCA0-665206BBD032@delong.com>
 <HE1PR0301MB25705566FF5B94C8528812A3EE910@HE1PR0301MB2570.eurprd03.prod.outlook.com>
 <452038e3-fbbd-1060-f3bb-35abb7a55d75@posix.co.za>
 <CAEqgTWYhKV3P8o52h+O-eEXUPchJRXBrzSojd_hidQs=Cy=BWw@mail.gmail.com>
 <E12E18F4-0ED7-4C9D-A39D-EF69DEA2718A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <CAEqgTWYsymgxEURXJ+QBCOS0WOy70e+9XPpftQH62MdJ0YnaaA@mail.gmail.com>
 <A846EB1D-74E3-40B7-951E-E9EB173DA95A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <833d0acd-a3d8-4d10-1306-ca41784792af@posix.co.za>
 <CAH5aO8dSzNxgj3TOkMpMMckgUnf1PL1TquRwf5jQS1--3WHmzQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cc17366a-e112-9900-bbb7-ad9ca6baa59f@posix.co.za>



On 18/05/2018 23:11, Chevalier du Borg wrote:
>
>
> Le?ven. 18 mai 2018 ??13:34, Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za
> <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>> a ?crit?:
>
>
>     Regarding Money and Meetings.
>
>     I would like to propose to the community and membership that
>     AfriNIC meetings are no longer free to attend - that we introduce
>     a badge fee of (say) US$100 in order to acquire the badge.
>
>
> I agree need to impose some cost
> $100? = about 50,000 in Central African Francs is bit high especially
> for local
>
>
> Question: Is AFRINIC meeting the way it is worth pay $100 for?

In the early years before AIS existed? - If I went to the AfNOG talks -
I had to pay $50 per day.

$100 is just a suggestion. $50 for the badge (lasting the week) would
still, I think, be fine. Maybe $50 if you are from the host country,
$100 for everyone else?

>
> A choice may be to not provision any lunch during the meeting but
> still leave it free. If? CEO can give us strategy to ran a meeting so
> it cost the company nothing from budget, that will be ok too.
>
> -- 
> Borg le Chevalier
> ___________________________________
> "Common sense is what tells us the world is flat"

-- 
Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
mje at posix.co.za       Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za

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From Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net  Sat May 19 11:38:44 2018
From: Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net (Omo Oaiya)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2018 12:38:44 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <dd22da4f-9308-0e81-85d2-f50839f5ed8f@afrinic.net>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <CAGrBSSh8qc03+GzFLOzX-_6edVgiO1S4iUKeiYB3Yg-S43H+Rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <dd22da4f-9308-0e81-85d2-f50839f5ed8f@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <CAG1eoi2ARyHcs7b0BCjhpvMv3XZpRqMz6ubPm24cR7VDu4Nyqw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Legal Counsel,

Thanks for your input.  Much appreciated.

Your statements reinforce the interpretation of section 9.2 of the
guidelines with the origin of the "none of the above" option in the
election process and how votes for this option are considered in the case
of one candidate running for election for a seat. [Last bullet point]

Case in which the election becomes a "yes" or "no"  vote for the only
candidate.   This point is clear and accepted and the objection is not for
the results for seat 5 and 6.

What has not been clarified is how the same principle came to be applied
for the elections for seat 2 which had two candidates running for the seat,
one of whom got higher votes than the other, with the total number of
members casting votes in excess of those opting out.

You also referred to art 10.2 of the constitution but did not elaborate on
the precedence that occurred that has become an integral part of
our guidelines.  As precedence automatically becomes part of the election
guidelines, it is important that we address issues which come up around the
election with care and unambiguously.

Can you be so kind to clarify?

Best wishes
Omo

PS:  Grateful to listers to please keep this thread confined to the subject.



On 17 May 2018 at 17:17, Ashok <ashok at afrinic.net> wrote:

> Dear Members and Community,
> Mt views have been sought on the matter under reference.
> Please find same hereunder.
>
> On 17/05/2018 14:04, B
>
> *The Election Process and last AGMM.*
>
> The appointment of Directors is carried out during an AGMM of the Company
> ?Art 13.1 of the constitution.
>
> The election of the Directors is carried out in terms of Art 13.2 of the
> constitution which refers expressly to the election process approved by the
> Board.
>
> Moreover  Art 10.2 of the Constitution refers to precedent applied during
> an AFRINIC election and which de facto become part of the election
> guidelines.
>
> The election process  as it stands today is the one which was applied
> during  the elections held during the last AGMM without any opposition.
>
> This is what it provides:
>
> *9.2 Paper Ballot on Election Day*
>
> The voting conducted during the Annual General Members' Meeting is carried
> out via paper ballots containing a list of candidate names and a ballot
> number. Prior to the vote, all members present or participants holding a
> proxy will be requested to register and validate their membership status.
>
>    - Voters should only vote for one candidate per category/region. Each
>          mark on a ballot paper represents one vote. A ballot with more than one
>          mark per category/region will be considered spoilt, and not be counted.
>          - The ballot paper should provide voters with the option to not
>          vote for any candidate (a.k.a. "None of the Above").
>          - This will be a secret ballot election. An inclusion of any
>          personal data on the ballot paper will invalidate the vote and will be
>          counted as spoilt.
>          - Elections will be closed as soon as the last member or proxy
>          present in the meeting room casts his/her vote. Candidates with the highest
>          number of votes in each category will be declared winners.
>          - In the event of a tie for an open position, voting for that
>          position will be repeated (Only by paper ballot) the same day until there
>          is a winner.
>          - All open positions shall be subject to an election process
>          even if there is only one candidate. In that event, if the option [none of
>          the above] got more votes than the only candidate, then the seat shall be
>          considered vacant and the Board will be requested to apply
>          provisions of the Bylaws to temporarily fill the vacant seat
>
> The last amendment of the election guidelines introduced the voting option
> ? None of the Above?. ?(Vide second bullet point above.)Those voters who
> have cast their votes for ? None of the Above? have done so in compliance
> with the prevailing  constitution  and these are thus valid votes. Every
> voter was aware of the new option.
>
> The election guidelines are clear as to what happens when the ? None of
> the Above? option has a majority.- (Vide last bullet point above.)
>
> The election guidelines must be read as a whole and all the provisions
> read together.
>
> Legal Counsel ?AFRINIC
>
> 17.05.2018
> oubakar Barry wrote:
>
> Hello Board and Legal Counsel,
>
> Good that Omo spotted this.
>
> It?s a matter of applying the board election process adopted by the board
> according to section 13.2 of the bylaws.
>
> https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process describes
> the process and section 9 spells out how to interpret the results in the
> case there are more than one candidate and in the case there is only one
> candidate. These two cases are addressed separately and differently.
>
> It?s important to hear from the Board and the Legal Counsel, as the
> elections can be challenged.
>
> Please advise.
>
> Regards.
>
> Boubakar
>
> On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 5:24 PM, Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net> wrote:
>
>> Greetings All,
>>
>> I am looking at the BoD election process and it seems to me that the
>> recent e-mail from the Board Chair seeking nominations for vacant seats
>> should not be extended to Western Africa.
>>
>> The particular clause I am referring to is in 9.2 -
>> https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process
>>
>>
>>    -
>>    Elections will be closed as soon as the last member or proxy present
>>    in the meeting room casts his/her vote. Candidates with the highest number
>>    of votes in each category will be declared winners
>>
>> I see from the list for West Africa that the candidate with the highest
>> number of votes should have been declared winner and this is Dr Ousmane
>> Tessa.  (btw, Dr Adewale Adedokun needs his name spelt correctly)
>>
>>
>> *Western Africa - Seat 2*
>>
>> Dr Adelawe Abedekon - 43
>>
>> Dr Ousmane Moussa Tessa - 56
>>
>> None of the above - 78
>>
>> *Result: The seat is vacant*
>>
>>
>> The results from the other regions are valid and supported by the
>> following clause as they had one candidate.
>>
>>
>>    - All open positions shall be subject to an election process even if
>>       there is only one candidate. In that event, if the option [none of the
>>       above] got more votes than the only candidate, then the seat shall be
>>       considered vacant and the Board will be requested to apply provisions of
>>       the Bylaws to temporarily fill the vacant seat.
>>
>>
>> Can AfriNIC and the nomcom please clarify?   We should not deprive Dr
>> Tessa of a rightful win ?. especially in the circumstances we find
>> ourselves.
>>
>> Omo
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Members-Discuss mailing listMembers-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
>
>
>
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From christianbope at gmail.com  Thu May 24 16:10:00 2018
From: christianbope at gmail.com (Bope Christian)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 17:10:00 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Call for comments on proposed changes to
	AFRINIC fees
Message-ID: <E9EAD3DF-6E69-496D-9E57-C74C67B835D7@gmail.com>

Dear AFRINIC members and community,

The AFRINIC Board constituted a Fee Review Committee in 2017 to consider changes to AFRINIC?s fee structure.  The committee presented a report to the Board on 9 May 2018, with updates on 23 May 2018.  The report is published at <https://afrinic.net/images/doc/fees-proposal-afrinic-20180523.pdf <https://afrinic.net/images/doc/fees-proposal-afrinic-20180523.pdf>>.  A calculator that shows both existing and proposed fees is available at <https://preview.afrinic.net/membership-cost#calculator <https://preview.afrinic.net/membership-cost#calculator>>.

In terms of Article 4.2(ii) of the AFRINIC Bylaws, the Board invites comments on the proposed new fees for a period of 60 days.  Comments should be sent to the community-discuss at afrinic.net mailing list, no later than 25 July 2018.

Best Regards,
Christian D. Bope, Ph.D
Chairman, AFRINIC Board




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From christianbope at gmail.com  Thu May 24 16:13:46 2018
From: christianbope at gmail.com (Bope Christian)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 17:13:46 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] =?utf-8?q?Appel_aux_commentaires_sur_les_modi?=
 =?utf-8?q?fications_propos=C3=A9es_aux_frais_d=27AFRINIC?=
Message-ID: <AB0E64AA-D7E1-44EC-999F-7AE50308BCF5@gmail.com>

Chers membres et communaut? AFRINIC,

Le conseil d'administration d'AFRINIC a constitu? un comit? d'examen des frais en 2017 afin d'envisager des changements ? la structure des frais d'AFRINIC. Le comit? a pr?sent? un rapport au Conseil le 9 mai 2018, avec des mises ? jour le 23 mai 2018. Le rapport est publi? (en anglais) ? l'adresse <https://afrinic.net/images/doc/fees-proposal-afrinic-20180523.pdf <https://afrinic.net/images/doc/fees-proposal-afrinic-20180523.pdf>>. Une calculatrice indiquant les frais existants et propos?s est disponible ? l'adresse <https://preview.afrinic.net/fr/adhesion-frais#calculateur <https://preview.afrinic.net/fr/adhesion-frais#calculateur>>.

Conform?ment ? l'article 4.2 (ii) des statuts d'AFRINIC, le Conseil sollicite des commentaires sur les nouvelles taxes propos?es pour une p?riode de 60 jours. Les commentaires doivent ?tre envoy?s ? la liste de diffusion ?community-discuss at afrinic.net?, au plus tard le 25 juillet 2018.

Cordialement,
Christian D. Bope, Ph.D
Pr?sident du Conseil d?Administration d?AFRINIC




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From amelnaud at gmail.com  Thu May 24 17:11:17 2018
From: amelnaud at gmail.com (Arnaud AMELINA)
Date: Thu, 24 May 2018 17:11:17 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <CAG1eoi2ARyHcs7b0BCjhpvMv3XZpRqMz6ubPm24cR7VDu4Nyqw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <CAGrBSSh8qc03+GzFLOzX-_6edVgiO1S4iUKeiYB3Yg-S43H+Rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <dd22da4f-9308-0e81-85d2-f50839f5ed8f@afrinic.net>
 <CAG1eoi2ARyHcs7b0BCjhpvMv3XZpRqMz6ubPm24cR7VDu4Nyqw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGDMR_cykPufKm1bg=hPFGedQ3LLFOHpGaB3Mj-0JNs4yjY=ZA@mail.gmail.com>

Dear CEO and Chairman

It looks like the Legal counsel has not  responded to this query bellow
regarding this very important issue about the recently concluded elections.

Could you kindly remind him?

Let us address this to a good conclusion in order to enforce the respect of
our rules and processes.

Regards

Arnaud

Le sam. 19 mai 2018 11:40, Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net> a ?crit :

> Dear Legal Counsel,
>
> Thanks for your input.  Much appreciated.
>
> Your statements reinforce the interpretation of section 9.2 of the
> guidelines with the origin of the "none of the above" option in the
> election process and how votes for this option are considered in the case
> of one candidate running for election for a seat. [Last bullet point]
>
> Case in which the election becomes a "yes" or "no"  vote for the only
> candidate.   This point is clear and accepted and the objection is not for
> the results for seat 5 and 6.
>
> What has not been clarified is how the same principle came to be applied
> for the elections for seat 2 which had two candidates running for the seat,
> one of whom got higher votes than the other, with the total number of
> members casting votes in excess of those opting out.
>
> You also referred to art 10.2 of the constitution but did not elaborate on
> the precedence that occurred that has become an integral part of
> our guidelines.  As precedence automatically becomes part of the election
> guidelines, it is important that we address issues which come up around the
> election with care and unambiguously.
>
> Can you be so kind to clarify?
>
> Best wishes
> Omo
>
> PS:  Grateful to listers to please keep this thread confined to the
> subject.
>
>
>
> On 17 May 2018 at 17:17, Ashok <ashok at afrinic.net> wrote:
>
>> Dear Members and Community,
>> Mt views have been sought on the matter under reference.
>> Please find same hereunder.
>>
>> On 17/05/2018 14:04, B
>>
>> *The Election Process and last AGMM.*
>>
>> The appointment of Directors is carried out during an AGMM of the Company
>> ?Art 13.1 of the constitution.
>>
>> The election of the Directors is carried out in terms of Art 13.2 of the
>> constitution which refers expressly to the election process approved by the
>> Board.
>>
>> Moreover  Art 10.2 of the Constitution refers to precedent applied
>> during an AFRINIC election and which de facto become part of the election
>> guidelines.
>>
>> The election process  as it stands today is the one which was applied
>> during  the elections held during the last AGMM without any opposition.
>>
>> This is what it provides:
>>
>> *9.2 Paper Ballot on Election Day*
>>
>> The voting conducted during the Annual General Members' Meeting is
>> carried out via paper ballots containing a list of candidate names and a
>> ballot number. Prior to the vote, all members present or participants
>> holding a proxy will be requested to register and validate their membership
>> status.
>>
>>    - Voters should only vote for one candidate per category/region. Each
>>          mark on a ballot paper represents one vote. A ballot with more than one
>>          mark per category/region will be considered spoilt, and not be counted.
>>          - The ballot paper should provide voters with the option to not
>>          vote for any candidate (a.k.a. "None of the Above").
>>          - This will be a secret ballot election. An inclusion of any
>>          personal data on the ballot paper will invalidate the vote and will be
>>          counted as spoilt.
>>          - Elections will be closed as soon as the last member or proxy
>>          present in the meeting room casts his/her vote. Candidates with the highest
>>          number of votes in each category will be declared winners.
>>          - In the event of a tie for an open position, voting for that
>>          position will be repeated (Only by paper ballot) the same day until there
>>          is a winner.
>>          - All open positions shall be subject to an election process
>>          even if there is only one candidate. In that event, if the option [none of
>>          the above] got more votes than the only candidate, then the seat shall be
>>          considered vacant and the Board will be requested to apply
>>          provisions of the Bylaws to temporarily fill the vacant seat
>>
>> The last amendment of the election guidelines introduced the voting
>> option ? None of the Above?. ?(Vide second bullet point above.)Those voters
>> who have cast their votes for ? None of the Above? have done so in
>> compliance with the prevailing  constitution  and these are thus valid
>> votes. Every voter was aware of the new option.
>>
>> The election guidelines are clear as to what happens when the ? None of
>> the Above? option has a majority.- (Vide last bullet point above.)
>>
>> The election guidelines must be read as a whole and all the provisions
>> read together.
>>
>> Legal Counsel ?AFRINIC
>>
>> 17.05.2018
>> oubakar Barry wrote:
>>
>> Hello Board and Legal Counsel,
>>
>> Good that Omo spotted this.
>>
>> It?s a matter of applying the board election process adopted by the board
>> according to section 13.2 of the bylaws.
>>
>> https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process
>> describes the process and section 9 spells out how to interpret the results
>> in the case there are more than one candidate and in the case there is only
>> one candidate. These two cases are addressed separately and differently.
>>
>> It?s important to hear from the Board and the Legal Counsel, as the
>> elections can be challenged.
>>
>> Please advise.
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>> Boubakar
>>
>> On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 5:24 PM, Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Greetings All,
>>>
>>> I am looking at the BoD election process and it seems to me that the
>>> recent e-mail from the Board Chair seeking nominations for vacant seats
>>> should not be extended to Western Africa.
>>>
>>> The particular clause I am referring to is in 9.2 -
>>> https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process
>>>
>>>
>>>    -
>>>    Elections will be closed as soon as the last member or proxy present
>>>    in the meeting room casts his/her vote. Candidates with the highest number
>>>    of votes in each category will be declared winners
>>>
>>> I see from the list for West Africa that the candidate with the highest
>>> number of votes should have been declared winner and this is Dr Ousmane
>>> Tessa.  (btw, Dr Adewale Adedokun needs his name spelt correctly)
>>>
>>>
>>> *Western Africa - Seat 2*
>>>
>>> Dr Adelawe Abedekon - 43
>>>
>>> Dr Ousmane Moussa Tessa - 56
>>>
>>> None of the above - 78
>>>
>>> *Result: The seat is vacant*
>>>
>>>
>>> The results from the other regions are valid and supported by the
>>> following clause as they had one candidate.
>>>
>>>
>>>    - All open positions shall be subject to an election process even if
>>>       there is only one candidate. In that event, if the option [none of the
>>>       above] got more votes than the only candidate, then the seat shall be
>>>       considered vacant and the Board will be requested to apply provisions of
>>>       the Bylaws to temporarily fill the vacant seat.
>>>
>>>
>>> Can AfriNIC and the nomcom please clarify?   We should not deprive Dr
>>> Tessa of a rightful win ?. especially in the circumstances we find
>>> ourselves.
>>>
>>> Omo
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Members-Discuss mailing listMembers-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
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From saul at enetworks.co.za  Fri May 25 10:15:30 2018
From: saul at enetworks.co.za (Saul Stein)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 12:15:30 +0200 (SAST)
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Call for comments on proposed changes
	to	AFRINIC fees
In-Reply-To: <E9EAD3DF-6E69-496D-9E57-C74C67B835D7@gmail.com>
References: <E9EAD3DF-6E69-496D-9E57-C74C67B835D7@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <024b01d3f411$4f5099a0$edf1cce0$@enetworks.co.za>

Hi

Just a few pointers:



The document is slightly confusing as it discusses points without mentioning 
details, only to repeat everything with detail later on.



2.4 end users vs LIRs: difference ratio is contradictory. There should not 
be a difference in fee structure between end users and LIRs ? the resource 
the use is identical.



2.5 one can?t expect the large members to cover the smaller ones.



2.6 ASN only fees, $200 for end users and LIRs ? again, there is no 
difference between the entities and $1400 for just an ASN is crazy.



2.8 no mention of the allocation or assignment fee, but repeated in 3.3.2



3.3.1 please explain the difference in allocation process between LIRs and 
end users. Again, it?s the same work and so should carry the same fees. 
(same as for resources ? same resources, should be the same fees)

3.5.1 please define per block. Is that $500 per allocation or per /24. 
Assuming is per allocation, this should be a sliding scale.



?Where transfers are due to mergers, acquisitions, or name changes, and 
where there is a

requirement for AFRINIC to evaluate the recipient organisation?s compliance 
with policy:

The fees under ?Other transfers? will apply.?



This seems a contradiction.as :Other Transfers seems to deal with the same 
things.



3.5.2 $1000 for internal transfers is ludicrous.



3.6.3    ?For the purposes of this discount, critical infrastructure is as 
defined by any policy that specifically deals with critical infrastructure.?

That is not a definition



What category do INXes fall into?





From: Bope Christian [mailto:christianbope at gmail.com]
Sent: 24 May 2018 06:10 PM
To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Call for comments on proposed changes to 
AFRINIC fees



Dear AFRINIC members and community,



The AFRINIC Board constituted a Fee Review Committee in 2017 to consider 
changes to AFRINIC?s fee structure.  The committee presented a report to the 
Board on 9 May 2018, with updates on 23 May 2018.  The report is published 
at < <https://afrinic.net/images/doc/fees-proposal-afrinic-20180523.pdf> 
https://afrinic.net/images/doc/fees-proposal-afrinic-20180523.pdf>.  A 
calculator that shows both existing and proposed fees is available at < 
<https://preview.afrinic.net/membership-cost#calculator> 
https://preview.afrinic.net/membership-cost#calculator>.



In terms of Article 4.2(ii) of the AFRINIC Bylaws, the Board invites 
comments on the proposed new fees for a period of 60 days.  Comments should 
be sent to the community-discuss at afrinic.net <http://afrinic.net> 
mailing list, no later than 25 July 2018.



Best Regards,

Christian D. Bope, Ph.D

Chairman, AFRINIC Board









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From saul at enetworks.co.za  Fri May 25 10:32:37 2018
From: saul at enetworks.co.za (Saul Stein)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 12:32:37 +0200 (SAST)
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Call for comments on proposed
	changes	to	AFRINIC fees
In-Reply-To: <024b01d3f411$4f5099a0$edf1cce0$@enetworks.co.za>
References: <E9EAD3DF-6E69-496D-9E57-C74C67B835D7@gmail.com>
 <024b01d3f411$4f5099a0$edf1cce0$@enetworks.co.za>
Message-ID: <027001d3f413$b3381770$19a84650$@enetworks.co.za>

Sorry, just to add, I think its great to see a more linear pricing structure 
which will help members grow!



From: Saul Stein [mailto:saul at enetworks.co.za]
Sent: 25 May 2018 12:16 PM
To: Bope Christian <christianbope at gmail.com>; community-discuss at afrinic.net
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Call for comments on proposed changes to 
AFRINIC fees



Hi

Just a few pointers:



The document is slightly confusing as it discusses points without mentioning 
details, only to repeat everything with detail later on.



2.4 end users vs LIRs: difference ratio is contradictory. There should not 
be a difference in fee structure between end users and LIRs ? the resource 
the use is identical.



2.5 one can?t expect the large members to cover the smaller ones.



2.6 ASN only fees, $200 for end users and LIRs ? again, there is no 
difference between the entities and $1400 for just an ASN is crazy.



2.8 no mention of the allocation or assignment fee, but repeated in 3.3.2



3.3.1 please explain the difference in allocation process between LIRs and 
end users. Again, it?s the same work and so should carry the same fees. 
(same as for resources ? same resources, should be the same fees)

3.5.1 please define per block. Is that $500 per allocation or per /24. 
Assuming is per allocation, this should be a sliding scale.



?Where transfers are due to mergers, acquisitions, or name changes, and 
where there is a

requirement for AFRINIC to evaluate the recipient organisation?s compliance 
with policy:

The fees under ?Other transfers? will apply.?



This seems a contradiction.as :Other Transfers seems to deal with the same 
things.



3.5.2 $1000 for internal transfers is ludicrous.



3.6.3    ?For the purposes of this discount, critical infrastructure is as 
defined by any policy that specifically deals with critical infrastructure.?

That is not a definition



What category do INXes fall into?





From: Bope Christian [mailto:christianbope at gmail.com]
Sent: 24 May 2018 06:10 PM
To: community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Call for comments on proposed changes to 
AFRINIC fees



Dear AFRINIC members and community,



The AFRINIC Board constituted a Fee Review Committee in 2017 to consider 
changes to AFRINIC?s fee structure.  The committee presented a report to the 
Board on 9 May 2018, with updates on 23 May 2018.  The report is published 
at < <https://afrinic.net/images/doc/fees-proposal-afrinic-20180523.pdf> 
https://afrinic.net/images/doc/fees-proposal-afrinic-20180523.pdf>.  A 
calculator that shows both existing and proposed fees is available at < 
<https://preview.afrinic.net/membership-cost#calculator> 
https://preview.afrinic.net/membership-cost#calculator>.



In terms of Article 4.2(ii) of the AFRINIC Bylaws, the Board invites 
comments on the proposed new fees for a period of 60 days.  Comments should 
be sent to the community-discuss at afrinic.net <http://afrinic.net> 
mailing list, no later than 25 July 2018.



Best Regards,

Christian D. Bope, Ph.D

Chairman, AFRINIC Board









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From ashok at afrinic.net  Fri May 25 11:18:38 2018
From: ashok at afrinic.net (Ashok)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 15:18:38 +0400
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <CAGDMR_cykPufKm1bg=hPFGedQ3LLFOHpGaB3Mj-0JNs4yjY=ZA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <CAGrBSSh8qc03+GzFLOzX-_6edVgiO1S4iUKeiYB3Yg-S43H+Rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <dd22da4f-9308-0e81-85d2-f50839f5ed8f@afrinic.net>
 <CAG1eoi2ARyHcs7b0BCjhpvMv3XZpRqMz6ubPm24cR7VDu4Nyqw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGDMR_cykPufKm1bg=hPFGedQ3LLFOHpGaB3Mj-0JNs4yjY=ZA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <a917fef3-c575-91fa-be3e-6d11dd3cd523@afrinic.net>

Dear All,
I apologize for having? missed your rejoinder to my mail.
Your first question regards the reason as to why the same principle has 
been applied to the election for Seat 2
notwithstanding the fact that there were two candidates.
My response is that an election cannot be run on different principles. 
In this particular election the option "none of the above " was
introduced for the first time and everyone was aware of this and it 
applied to all the elections held on that day. The Election guidelines 
were amended to acomodate this option.
Consequently this option has to be taken in consideration when 
finalising the results.
Where there were two candidates. The options for voters were (1) yes for 
candidate (1)-((2) yes for candidate 2-(3) yes for non of the above.Each 
one is mutually exclusive.
Each score to be counted separately. The majority for either option wins 
the day. One should not create a fictitious majority by adding votes 
polled by (1) & (2) together. The real majority was to all intents and 
purposes the option which polled the most votes. There is no need to 
extrapolate or interpret.
Where there was one candidate there were two options- Yes for the single 
candidate or yes for? "non of the above"
My reference to Art 10.2 was based on the decision of the members 
present at? past AGMMs to have the option of rejecting a single 
candidate or to give their approval to the single candidate, This has 
occurred more than once.
Legal Counsel AFRINIC.

On 24/05/2018 21:11, Arnaud AMELINA wrote:
> Dear CEO and Chairman
>
> It looks like the Legal counsel has not ?responded to this query 
> bellow ? regarding this very important issue about the recently 
> concluded elections.
>
> Could you kindly remind him?
>
> Let us address this to a good conclusion in order to enforce the 
> respect of our rules and processes.
>
> Regards
>
> Arnaud
>
> Le sam. 19 mai 2018 11:40, Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net 
> <mailto:Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>> a ?crit?:
>
>     Dear Legal Counsel,
>
>     Thanks for your input.? Much appreciated.
>
>     Your statements reinforce the interpretation of section 9.2 of the
>     guidelines with the origin of the "none of the above" option in
>     the election process and how votes for this option are considered
>     in the case of one candidate running for election for a seat.
>     [Last bullet point]
>
>     Case in which the election becomes a "yes" or "no"? vote for the
>     only candidate.? ?This point?is clear and accepted and the
>     objection is not for the results for seat 5 and 6.
>
>     What has not been clarified is how the same principle came to be
>     applied for the elections for seat 2 which had two candidates
>     running for the seat, one of whom got higher votes than the other,
>     with the total number of members casting votes in excess of those
>     opting out.
>
>     You also?referred to art 10.2 of the constitution?but did not
>     elaborate on the precedence that occurred that has become an
>     integral?part of our?guidelines.? As precedence automatically
>     becomes part of the election guidelines, it is important that we
>     address issues which come up around the election with care and
>     unambiguously.
>
>     Can you be so kind to clarify?
>
>     Best wishes
>     Omo
>
>     PS:? Grateful to listers to please keep?this thread confined to
>     the subject.
>
>
>
>     On 17 May 2018 at 17:17, Ashok <ashok at afrinic.net
>     <mailto:ashok at afrinic.net>> wrote:
>
>         Dear Members and Community,
>         Mt views have been sought on the matter under reference.
>         Please find same hereunder.
>
>         On 17/05/2018 14:04, B
>
>         *_The Election Process and last AGMM._*
>
>         The appointment of Directors is carried out during an AGMM of
>         the Company ?Art 13.1 of the constitution.
>
>         The election of the Directors is carried out in terms of Art
>         13.2 of the constitution which refers expressly to the
>         election process approved by the Board.
>
>         MoreoverArt 10.2 of the Constitution refers to precedent
>         applied during an AFRINIC election and which de facto become
>         part of the election guidelines.
>
>         The election processas it stands today is the one which was
>         applied duringthe elections held during the last AGMM without
>         any opposition.
>
>         This is what it provides:
>
>         *9.2 Paper Ballot on Election Day*
>
>         The voting conducted during the Annual General Members'
>         Meeting is carried out via paper ballots containing a list of
>         candidate names and a ballot number. Prior to the vote, all
>         members present or participants holding a proxy will be
>         requested to register and validate their membership status.
>
>                   + Voters should only vote for one candidate per
>                     category/region. Each mark on a ballot paper
>                     represents one vote. A ballot with more than one
>                     mark per category/region will be considered
>                     spoilt, and not be counted.
>                   + The ballot paper should provide voters with the
>                     option to not vote for any candidate (a.k.a. "None
>                     of the Above").
>                   + This will be a secret ballot election. An
>                     inclusion of any personal data on the ballot paper
>                     will invalidate the vote and will be counted as
>                     spoilt.
>                   + Elections will be closed as soon as the last
>                     member or proxy present in the meeting room casts
>                     his/her vote. Candidates with the highest number
>                     of votes in each category will be declared winners.
>                   + In the event of a tie for an open position, voting
>                     for that position will be repeated (Only by paper
>                     ballot) the same day until there is a winner.
>                   + All open positions shall be subject to an election
>                     process even if there is only one candidate. In
>                     that event, if the option [none of the above] got
>                     more votes than the only candidate, then the seat
>                     shall be considered vacant and the Board will be
>                     requestedto apply provisions of the Bylaws to
>                     temporarily fill the vacant seat
>
>         The last amendment of the election guidelines introduced the
>         voting option ? None of the Above?. ?(Vide second bullet point
>         above.)Those voters who have cast their votes for ? None of
>         the Above? have done so in compliance with the
>         prevailingconstitution and these are thus valid votes. Every
>         voter was aware of the new option.
>
>         The election guidelines are clear as to what happens when the
>         ? None of the Above? option has a majority.- (Vide last bullet
>         point above.)
>
>         The election guidelines must be read as a whole and all the
>         provisions read together.
>
>         Legal Counsel ?AFRINIC
>
>         17.05.2018
>
>         oubakar Barry wrote:
>>
>>         Hello Board and Legal Counsel,
>>
>>         Good that Omo spotted this.
>>
>>         It?s a matter of applying the board election process adopted
>>         by the board according to section 13.2 of the bylaws.
>>
>>         https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process
>>         describes the process and section 9 spells out how to
>>         interpret the results in the case there are more than one
>>         candidate and in the case there is only one candidate. These
>>         two cases are addressed separately and differently.
>>
>>         It?s important to hear from the Board and the Legal Counsel,
>>         as the elections can be challenged.
>>
>>         Please advise.
>>
>>         Regards.
>>
>>         Boubakar
>>
>>
>>         On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 5:24 PM, Omo Oaiya
>>         <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net <mailto:Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>> wrote:
>>
>>             Greetings All,
>>
>>             I am looking at the BoD election process and it seems to
>>             me that the recent e-mail from the Board Chair seeking
>>             nominations for vacant seats should not be extended to
>>             Western Africa.
>>
>>             The particular clause I am referring to is in 9.2 -
>>             https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process
>>>
>>>              *
>>>
>>>
>>>                 Elections will be closed as soon as the last member
>>>                 or proxy present in the meeting room casts his/her
>>>                 vote. Candidates with the highest number of votes in
>>>                 each category will be declared winners
>>>
>>             I see from the list for West Africa that the candidate
>>             with the highest number of votes should have been
>>             declared winner and this is Dr Ousmane Tessa. ?(btw, Dr
>>             Adewale Adedokun needs his name spelt correctly)
>>
>>>
>>>             *Western Africa - Seat 2*
>>>
>>>             Dr Adelawe Abedekon - 43
>>>
>>>             Dr Ousmane Moussa Tessa - 56
>>>
>>>             None of the above - 78
>>>
>>>             /Result: The seat is vacant/
>>>
>>>
>>
>>             The results from the other regions are valid and
>>             supported by the following clause as they had one candidate.
>>>
>>>                   o All open positions shall be subject to an
>>>                     election process even if there is only one
>>>                     candidate. In that event, if the option [none of
>>>                     the above] got more votes than the only
>>>                     candidate, then the seat shall be considered
>>>                     vacant and the Board will be requested to apply
>>>                     provisions of the Bylaws to temporarily fill the
>>>                     vacant seat.
>>>
>>
>>             Can AfriNIC and the nomcom please clarify? ? We should
>>             not deprive Dr Tessa of a rightful win ?. especially in
>>             the circumstances we find ourselves.
>>
>>             Omo
>>
>>             _______________________________________________
>>             Community-Discuss mailing list
>>             Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>>             <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>>             https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         Members-Discuss mailing list
>>         Members-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Members-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>>         https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Community-Discuss mailing list
>     Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>     https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>

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From ousmane at musatesa.net  Fri May 25 15:12:13 2018
From: ousmane at musatesa.net (Ousmane MOUSSA TESSA)
Date: Fri, 25 May 2018 16:12:13 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
Message-ID: <f30fde39d2d967724ba786cc9383220c@musatesa.net>

Dear members of AfriNIC Community,

We read various points of view about the verdict of this election held 
two weeks ago during our last AGM in Dakar.

As the candidate having obtained the majority of positive votes (56/99), 
I can only make an objection to the verdict "the seat is vacant"!

Indeed, only 78 votes were against the two candidates, while 99 votes 
said the candidates are good for the job and have spread their choice on 
both candidates!

Bearing in mind the vision for AfriNIC  "to be the leading force in 
growing the Internet for Africa's sustainable development", I continue 
to subscribe to its Core Values, including Community driven,  Passion  
(there is a lot nowadays) and (less) Innovation & Creativity!

En avant!


-- 

**************************************************
Dr Ousmane MOUSSA TESSA
D?partement de math?matiques et d'informatique
Universit? A. Moumouni, Niamey, NIGER
****************************************************
Adresse postale: B.P. 10.111 Niamey, NIGER
T?l?phone  (domicile): +227 20 31 52 28
(mobile) :  +227 93 77 74 93/ 96 27 99 92 / 91 49 16 39
****************************************************
E-mail: ousmane(at)musatesa.net ou musatesa(at)yahoo.com
Web site: www.musatesa.net
Skype : musatesa
************************************************



From amelnaud at gmail.com  Tue May 29 21:56:03 2018
From: amelnaud at gmail.com (Arnaud AMELINA)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 21:56:03 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <a917fef3-c575-91fa-be3e-6d11dd3cd523@afrinic.net>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <CAGrBSSh8qc03+GzFLOzX-_6edVgiO1S4iUKeiYB3Yg-S43H+Rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <dd22da4f-9308-0e81-85d2-f50839f5ed8f@afrinic.net>
 <CAG1eoi2ARyHcs7b0BCjhpvMv3XZpRqMz6ubPm24cR7VDu4Nyqw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGDMR_cykPufKm1bg=hPFGedQ3LLFOHpGaB3Mj-0JNs4yjY=ZA@mail.gmail.com>
 <a917fef3-c575-91fa-be3e-6d11dd3cd523@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <CAGDMR_f-yYR6UxohpYL01aWWT2kyADDs22XK52h+u8Dmw-FOyw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Ashok as a lawyer you know that there is the law and spirit of the
law, please read bellow

2018-05-25 11:18 GMT+00:00 Ashok <ashok at afrinic.net>:

> Dear All,
> I apologize for having  missed your rejoinder to my mail.
>

Despite the delays, we appreciate your response as the matter is of great
concern.


> Your first question regards the reason as to why the same principle has
> been applied to the election for Seat 2
> notwithstanding the fact that there were two candidates.
> My response is that an election cannot be run on different principles. In
> this particular election the option "none of the above " was
> introduced for the first time and everyone was aware of this and it
> applied to all the elections held on that day. The Election guidelines were
> amended to acomodate this option.
>

Yes indeed and the elections guidelines explicitely addressed the case of
only a single candidate running for election and the option " none of the
above" in this case got more votes than the sole candidate but is very
silent in the case of multiple candidates running for elections with the
option "none of the above" getting more votes.

Anytime elections involve the option "none of the above", there are always
clear rules on how the results are interpreted and the actions that must be
taken when the option "none of the above" get more votes than the multiple
candidates.

It's not my intention to teach you something here, but it does look very
bizarre that the legal counsel never bothered to help the board to make
 the guidelines unambiguous  and conform to members expectations.


> Consequently this option has to be taken in consideration when finalising
> the results.
> Where there were two candidates. The options for voters were (1) yes for
> candidate (1)-((2) yes for candidate 2-(3) yes for non of the above.Each
> one is mutually exclusive.
> Each score to be counted separately. The majority for either option wins
> the day.
>

Following  your reasoning above and the guidelines which say the candidate
with the highest votes win, the members and community should then accept
"none of the above" as the elected candidate and seated although "none of
the above " did not go through Nomcom and was not listed on the candidates
slates  published by Nomcom.

Which means seat 2 should not be declared vacant to be filled by board.

Filling  seat 2 by board would constitute the violation of "none  of the
above" rights and of our rules and thus expose us to legal litigation.



> One should not create a fictitious majority by adding votes polled by (1)
> & (2) together. The real majority was to all intents and purposes the
> option which polled the most votes. There is no need to extrapolate or
> interpret.
>

There is No fictitious majority being created. It was just an example of
how this case could have been interpreted just like you do have your own
interpretation.

In many cases,  abstention is compared to voters in order to decide how to
proceed with  validating an election and counting results..



> Where there was one candidate there were two options- Yes for the single
> candidate or yes for  "non of the above"
>

The case of a sole candidate is clear as per the guidelines and there are
no objections on seat 5 and 6 results.


> My reference to Art 10.2 was based on the decision of the members present
> at  past AGMMs to have the option of rejecting a single candidate or to
> give their approval to the single candidate, This has occurred more than
> once.
>

And once again,  the case of a single candidate is handled as members
agreed to and not debated

Thank you



> Legal Counsel AFRINIC.
>
>
> On 24/05/2018 21:11, Arnaud AMELINA wrote:
>
> Dear CEO and Chairman
>
> It looks like the Legal counsel has not  responded to this query bellow
> regarding this very important issue about the recently concluded elections.
>
> Could you kindly remind him?
>
> Let us address this to a good conclusion in order to enforce the respect
> of our rules and processes.
>
> Regards
>
> Arnaud
>
> Le sam. 19 mai 2018 11:40, Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net> a ?crit :
>
>> Dear Legal Counsel,
>>
>> Thanks for your input.  Much appreciated.
>>
>> Your statements reinforce the interpretation of section 9.2 of the
>> guidelines with the origin of the "none of the above" option in the
>> election process and how votes for this option are considered in the case
>> of one candidate running for election for a seat. [Last bullet point]
>>
>> Case in which the election becomes a "yes" or "no"  vote for the only
>> candidate.   This point is clear and accepted and the objection is not for
>> the results for seat 5 and 6.
>>
>> What has not been clarified is how the same principle came to be applied
>> for the elections for seat 2 which had two candidates running for the seat,
>> one of whom got higher votes than the other, with the total number of
>> members casting votes in excess of those opting out.
>>
>> You also referred to art 10.2 of the constitution but did not elaborate
>> on the precedence that occurred that has become an integral part of
>> our guidelines.  As precedence automatically becomes part of the election
>> guidelines, it is important that we address issues which come up around the
>> election with care and unambiguously.
>>
>> Can you be so kind to clarify?
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Omo
>>
>> PS:  Grateful to listers to please keep this thread confined to the
>> subject.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 17 May 2018 at 17:17, Ashok <ashok at afrinic.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Members and Community,
>>> Mt views have been sought on the matter under reference.
>>> Please find same hereunder.
>>>
>>> On 17/05/2018 14:04, B
>>>
>>> *The Election Process and last AGMM.*
>>>
>>> The appointment of Directors is carried out during an AGMM of the
>>> Company ?Art 13.1 of the constitution.
>>>
>>> The election of the Directors is carried out in terms of Art 13.2 of the
>>> constitution which refers expressly to the election process approved by the
>>> Board.
>>>
>>> Moreover  Art 10.2 of the Constitution refers to precedent applied
>>> during an AFRINIC election and which de facto become part of the election
>>> guidelines.
>>>
>>> The election process  as it stands today is the one which was applied
>>> during  the elections held during the last AGMM without any opposition.
>>>
>>> This is what it provides:
>>>
>>> *9.2 Paper Ballot on Election Day*
>>>
>>> The voting conducted during the Annual General Members' Meeting is
>>> carried out via paper ballots containing a list of candidate names and a
>>> ballot number. Prior to the vote, all members present or participants
>>> holding a proxy will be requested to register and validate their membership
>>> status.
>>>
>>>    - Voters should only vote for one candidate per category/region.
>>>          Each mark on a ballot paper represents one vote. A ballot with more than
>>>          one mark per category/region will be considered spoilt, and not be counted.
>>>          - The ballot paper should provide voters with the option to
>>>          not vote for any candidate (a.k.a. "None of the Above").
>>>          - This will be a secret ballot election. An inclusion of any
>>>          personal data on the ballot paper will invalidate the vote and will be
>>>          counted as spoilt.
>>>          - Elections will be closed as soon as the last member or proxy
>>>          present in the meeting room casts his/her vote. Candidates with the highest
>>>          number of votes in each category will be declared winners.
>>>          - In the event of a tie for an open position, voting for that
>>>          position will be repeated (Only by paper ballot) the same day until there
>>>          is a winner.
>>>          - All open positions shall be subject to an election process
>>>          even if there is only one candidate. In that event, if the option [none of
>>>          the above] got more votes than the only candidate, then the seat shall be
>>>          considered vacant and the Board will be requested to apply
>>>          provisions of the Bylaws to temporarily fill the vacant seat
>>>
>>> The last amendment of the election guidelines introduced the voting
>>> option ? None of the Above?. ?(Vide second bullet point above.)Those voters
>>> who have cast their votes for ? None of the Above? have done so in
>>> compliance with the prevailing  constitution  and these are thus valid
>>> votes. Every voter was aware of the new option.
>>>
>>> The election guidelines are clear as to what happens when the ? None of
>>> the Above? option has a majority.- (Vide last bullet point above.)
>>>
>>> The election guidelines must be read as a whole and all the provisions
>>> read together.
>>>
>>> Legal Counsel ?AFRINIC
>>>
>>> 17.05.2018
>>> oubakar Barry wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello Board and Legal Counsel,
>>>
>>> Good that Omo spotted this.
>>>
>>> It?s a matter of applying the board election process adopted by the
>>> board according to section 13.2 of the bylaws.
>>>
>>> https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process
>>> describes the process and section 9 spells out how to interpret the results
>>> in the case there are more than one candidate and in the case there is only
>>> one candidate. These two cases are addressed separately and differently.
>>>
>>> It?s important to hear from the Board and the Legal Counsel, as the
>>> elections can be challenged.
>>>
>>> Please advise.
>>>
>>> Regards.
>>>
>>> Boubakar
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 5:24 PM, Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Greetings All,
>>>>
>>>> I am looking at the BoD election process and it seems to me that the
>>>> recent e-mail from the Board Chair seeking nominations for vacant seats
>>>> should not be extended to Western Africa.
>>>>
>>>> The particular clause I am referring to is in 9.2 -
>>>> https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    -
>>>>    Elections will be closed as soon as the last member or proxy
>>>>    present in the meeting room casts his/her vote. Candidates with the highest
>>>>    number of votes in each category will be declared winners
>>>>
>>>> I see from the list for West Africa that the candidate with the highest
>>>> number of votes should have been declared winner and this is Dr Ousmane
>>>> Tessa.  (btw, Dr Adewale Adedokun needs his name spelt correctly)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Western Africa - Seat 2*
>>>>
>>>> Dr Adelawe Abedekon - 43
>>>>
>>>> Dr Ousmane Moussa Tessa - 56
>>>>
>>>> None of the above - 78
>>>>
>>>> *Result: The seat is vacant*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The results from the other regions are valid and supported by the
>>>> following clause as they had one candidate.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>    - All open positions shall be subject to an election process even
>>>>       if there is only one candidate. In that event, if the option [none of the
>>>>       above] got more votes than the only candidate, then the seat shall be
>>>>       considered vacant and the Board will be requested to apply provisions of
>>>>       the Bylaws to temporarily fill the vacant seat.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Can AfriNIC and the nomcom please clarify?   We should not deprive Dr
>>>> Tessa of a rightful win ?. especially in the circumstances we find
>>>> ourselves.
>>>>
>>>> Omo
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Members-Discuss mailing listMembers-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
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>>
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From owen at delong.com  Tue May 29 22:34:58 2018
From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2018 15:34:58 -0700
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <CAGDMR_f-yYR6UxohpYL01aWWT2kyADDs22XK52h+u8Dmw-FOyw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <CAGrBSSh8qc03+GzFLOzX-_6edVgiO1S4iUKeiYB3Yg-S43H+Rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <dd22da4f-9308-0e81-85d2-f50839f5ed8f@afrinic.net>
 <CAG1eoi2ARyHcs7b0BCjhpvMv3XZpRqMz6ubPm24cR7VDu4Nyqw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGDMR_cykPufKm1bg=hPFGedQ3LLFOHpGaB3Mj-0JNs4yjY=ZA@mail.gmail.com>
 <a917fef3-c575-91fa-be3e-6d11dd3cd523@afrinic.net>
 <CAGDMR_f-yYR6UxohpYL01aWWT2kyADDs22XK52h+u8Dmw-FOyw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DF492E41-15A4-4A83-82AA-E381A49BAE9E@delong.com>

Arnaud,

While I agree that additional clarity is needed and I agree that there is some validity to the claim that none of the above MAY not have been a legitimate choice to place on the ballot, I think we cannot go changing the rules of the election and violating the expectations of the voters, membership, and community after the election has run.

Nobody raised an objection to the presence of none of the above on the ballot for seat 2 prior to or during the election.

Since there were more than enough voters who selected none of the above to change the result among the remaining two candidates, it is not legitimate to simply discard the none of the above votes and declare one of those candidates a winner. Indeed, I would argue that is the worst possible choice among all other options.

The other options as I see it are:

	1.	Allow the board to treat the seat as vacant and appoint a board member until the
		next AGMM.

	2.	Treat none of the above as a valid election result (in which case it should be
		considered the same for all 3 seats) and preclude the board from appointing
		anyone to the seat(s) until an election can be run.


	3.	Treat none of the above as a valid election result only for seat 2 and preclude
		the board from appointing seat 2 while still allowing them to appoint seats 5
		and 6.

As I see it, the best option is option 1. It allows the organization to proceed with a full board until the next AGMM where a hopefully more effective election can be accomplished.

I think option 2 is bad because it leaves the board precariously short-handed with only 5 of the expected 8 members, including the CEO. (The 3 elected members which remain, whoever is appointed to fill Haitham?s vacancy, and the CEO).

The problem I have with option 3 is I have trouble justifying treating the election of ?none of the above? differently in this circumstance than in the case of a single unopposed candidate. In both cases, more voters felt that they didn?t want any of the options on the ballot and voted not to elect any fo the candidates. The outcome is, IMHO, the same regardless of the number of candidates and should be handled identically.

Hopefully additional clarity can be achieved prior to the next election and we won?t have to face this issue again. Personally, I like the idea of having ?none of the above? as an option in all cases.

Owen

> On May 29, 2018, at 14:56 , Arnaud AMELINA <amelnaud at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear Ashok as a lawyer you know that there is the law and spirit of the law, please read bellow  
> 
> 2018-05-25 11:18 GMT+00:00 Ashok <ashok at afrinic.net <mailto:ashok at afrinic.net>>:
> Dear All,
> I apologize for having  missed your rejoinder to my mail.
>  
> Despite the delays, we appreciate your response as the matter is of great concern.
>  
> Your first question regards the reason as to why the same principle has been applied to the election for Seat 2 
> notwithstanding the fact that there were two candidates.
> My response is that an election cannot be run on different principles. In this particular election the option "none of the above " was 
> introduced for the first time and everyone was aware of this and it applied to all the elections held on that day. The Election guidelines were amended to acomodate this option.
> 
> Yes indeed and the elections guidelines explicitely addressed the case of only a single candidate running for election and the option " none of the above" in this case got more votes than the sole candidate but is very silent in the case of multiple candidates running for elections with the option "none of the above" getting more votes. 
> 
> Anytime elections involve the option "none of the above", there are always clear rules on how the results are interpreted and the actions that must be taken when the option "none of the above" get more votes than the multiple candidates. 
> 
> It's not my intention to teach you something here, but it does look very bizarre that the legal counsel never bothered to help the board to make  the guidelines unambiguous  and conform to members expectations.
>  
> Consequently this option has to be taken in consideration when finalising the results.
> Where there were two candidates. The options for voters were (1) yes for candidate (1)-((2) yes for candidate 2-(3) yes for non of the above.Each one is mutually exclusive.
> Each score to be counted separately. The majority for either option wins the day.
> 
> Following  your reasoning above and the guidelines which say the candidate with the highest votes win, the members and community should then accept "none of the above" as the elected candidate and seated although "none of the above " did not go through Nomcom and was not listed on the candidates slates  published by Nomcom.
> 
> Which means seat 2 should not be declared vacant to be filled by board.
> 
> Filling  seat 2 by board would constitute the violation of "none  of the above" rights and of our rules and thus expose us to legal litigation.
> 
>  
> One should not create a fictitious majority by adding votes polled by (1) & (2) together. The real majority was to all intents and purposes the option which polled the most votes. There is no need to extrapolate or interpret. 
> 
> There is No fictitious majority being created. It was just an example of how this case could have been interpreted just like you do have your own interpretation. 
> 
> In many cases,  abstention is compared to voters in order to decide how to proceed with  validating an election and counting results..
> 
>  
> Where there was one candidate there were two options- Yes for the single candidate or yes for  "non of the above"
> 
> The case of a sole candidate is clear as per the guidelines and there are no objections on seat 5 and 6 results.
>  
> My reference to Art 10.2 was based on the decision of the members present at  past AGMMs to have the option of rejecting a single candidate or to give their approval to the single candidate, This has occurred more than once.
> 
> And once again,  the case of a single candidate is handled as members agreed to and not debated
> 
> Thank you
> 
>  
> Legal Counsel AFRINIC.
> 
> 
> On 24/05/2018 21:11, Arnaud AMELINA wrote:
>> Dear CEO and Chairman
>> 
>> It looks like the Legal counsel has not  responded to this query bellow   regarding this very important issue about the recently concluded elections. 
>> 
>> Could you kindly remind him?  
>> 
>> Let us address this to a good conclusion in order to enforce the respect of our rules and processes.
>> 
>> Regards 
>> 
>> Arnaud 
>> 
>> Le sam. 19 mai 2018 11:40, Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net <mailto:Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>> a ?crit :
>> Dear Legal Counsel,
>> 
>> Thanks for your input.  Much appreciated. 
>> 
>> Your statements reinforce the interpretation of section 9.2 of the guidelines with the origin of the "none of the above" option in the election process and how votes for this option are considered in the case of one candidate running for election for a seat. [Last bullet point] 
>> 
>> Case in which the election becomes a "yes" or "no"  vote for the only candidate.   This point is clear and accepted and the objection is not for the results for seat 5 and 6.
>> 
>> What has not been clarified is how the same principle came to be applied for the elections for seat 2 which had two candidates running for the seat, one of whom got higher votes than the other, with the total number of members casting votes in excess of those opting out.
>> 
>> You also referred to art 10.2 of the constitution but did not elaborate on the precedence that occurred that has become an integral part of our guidelines.  As precedence automatically becomes part of the election guidelines, it is important that we address issues which come up around the election with care and unambiguously. 
>> 
>> Can you be so kind to clarify? 
>> 
>> Best wishes
>> Omo
>> 
>> PS:  Grateful to listers to please keep this thread confined to the subject.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 17 May 2018 at 17:17, Ashok <ashok at afrinic.net <mailto:ashok at afrinic.net>> wrote:
>> Dear Members and Community,
>> Mt views have been sought on the matter under reference.
>> Please find same hereunder.
>> 
>> On 17/05/2018 14:04, B
>> The Election Process and last AGMM.
>> 
>> The appointment of Directors is carried out during an AGMM of the Company ?Art 13.1 of the constitution.
>> 
>> The election of the Directors is carried out in terms of Art 13.2 of the constitution which refers expressly to the election process approved by the Board.
>> 
>> Moreover  Art 10.2 of the Constitution refers to precedent applied during an AFRINIC election and which de facto become part of the election guidelines.
>> 
>> The election process  as it stands today is the one which was applied during  the elections held during the last AGMM without any opposition.
>> 
>> This is what it provides:
>> 
>> 9.2 Paper Ballot on Election Day
>> 
>> The voting conducted during the Annual General Members' Meeting is carried out via paper ballots containing a list of candidate names and a ballot number. Prior to the vote, all members present or participants holding a proxy will be requested to register and validate their membership status.
>> 
>> Voters should only vote for one candidate per category/region. Each mark on a ballot paper represents one vote. A ballot with more than one mark per category/region will be considered spoilt, and not be counted.
>> The ballot paper should provide voters with the option to not vote for any candidate (a.k.a. "None of the Above").
>> This will be a secret ballot election. An inclusion of any personal data on the ballot paper will invalidate the vote and will be counted as spoilt.
>> Elections will be closed as soon as the last member or proxy present in the meeting room casts his/her vote. Candidates with the highest number of votes in each category will be declared winners.
>> In the event of a tie for an open position, voting for that position will be repeated (Only by paper ballot) the same day until there is a winner.
>> All open positions shall be subject to an election process even if there is only one candidate. In that event, if the option [none of the above] got more votes than the only candidate, then the seat shall be considered vacant and the Board will be requested to apply provisions of the Bylaws to temporarily fill the vacant seat
>> The last amendment of the election guidelines introduced the voting option ? None of the Above?. ?(Vide second bullet point above.)Those voters who have cast their votes for ? None of the Above? have done so in compliance with the prevailing  constitution  and these are thus valid votes. Every voter was aware of the new option.
>> 
>> The election guidelines are clear as to what happens when the ? None of the Above? option has a majority.- (Vide last bullet point above.)
>> 
>> The election guidelines must be read as a whole and all the provisions read together.
>> 
>> Legal Counsel ?AFRINIC
>> 
>> 17.05.2018
>> 
>> oubakar Barry wrote:
>>> Hello Board and Legal Counsel,
>>> 
>>> Good that Omo spotted this.
>>> 
>>> It?s a matter of applying the board election process adopted by the board according to section 13.2 of the bylaws.
>>> 
>>> https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process <https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process> describes the process and section 9 spells out how to interpret the results in the case there are more than one candidate and in the case there is only one candidate. These two cases are addressed separately and differently.
>>> 
>>> It?s important to hear from the Board and the Legal Counsel, as the elections can be challenged.
>>> 
>>> Please advise.
>>> 
>>> Regards.
>>> 
>>> Boubakar
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 5:24 PM, Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net <mailto:Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>> wrote:
>>> Greetings All,
>>> 
>>> I am looking at the BoD election process and it seems to me that the recent e-mail from the Board Chair seeking nominations for vacant seats should not be extended to Western Africa.  
>>> 
>>> The particular clause I am referring to is in 9.2 - https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process <https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process>
>>>> 
>>>> Elections will be closed as soon as the last member or proxy present in the meeting room casts his/her vote. Candidates with the highest number of votes in each category will be declared winners
>>> 
>>> I see from the list for West Africa that the candidate with the highest number of votes should have been declared winner and this is Dr Ousmane Tessa.  (btw, Dr Adewale Adedokun needs his name spelt correctly)
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Western Africa - Seat 2
>>>> Dr Adelawe Abedekon - 43
>>>> Dr Ousmane Moussa Tessa - 56
>>>> None of the above - 78
>>>> Result: The seat is vacant
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The results from the other regions are valid and supported by the following clause as they had one candidate. 
>>>> All open positions shall be subject to an election process even if there is only one candidate. In that event, if the option [none of the above] got more votes than the only candidate, then the seat shall be considered vacant and the Board will be requested to apply provisions of the Bylaws to temporarily fill the vacant seat. 
>>> 
>>> Can AfriNIC and the nomcom please clarify?   We should not deprive Dr Tessa of a rightful win ?. especially in the circumstances we find ourselves.
>>> 
>>> Omo
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>> Members-Discuss mailing list
>>> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Members-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss>
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

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From ashok at afrinic.net  Wed May 30 06:58:36 2018
From: ashok at afrinic.net (Ashok)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2018 10:58:36 +0400
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <CAGDMR_f-yYR6UxohpYL01aWWT2kyADDs22XK52h+u8Dmw-FOyw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <CAGrBSSh8qc03+GzFLOzX-_6edVgiO1S4iUKeiYB3Yg-S43H+Rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <dd22da4f-9308-0e81-85d2-f50839f5ed8f@afrinic.net>
 <CAG1eoi2ARyHcs7b0BCjhpvMv3XZpRqMz6ubPm24cR7VDu4Nyqw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGDMR_cykPufKm1bg=hPFGedQ3LLFOHpGaB3Mj-0JNs4yjY=ZA@mail.gmail.com>
 <a917fef3-c575-91fa-be3e-6d11dd3cd523@afrinic.net>
 <CAGDMR_f-yYR6UxohpYL01aWWT2kyADDs22XK52h+u8Dmw-FOyw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <704326bc-7d07-4eac-f5b6-bd9aa77924fb@afrinic.net>

Dear Arnaud,
I thank you for sharing your thoughts on the issue under hand.
Ashok.

On 30/05/2018 01:56, Arnaud AMELINA wrote:
> Dear Ashok as a lawyer you know that there is the law and spirit of 
> the law, please read bellow
>
> 2018-05-25 11:18 GMT+00:00 Ashok <ashok at afrinic.net 
> <mailto:ashok at afrinic.net>>:
>
>     Dear All,
>     I apologize for having? missed your rejoinder to my mail.
>
> Despite the delays, we appreciate your response as the matter is of 
> great concern.
>
>     Your first question regards the reason as to why the same
>     principle has been applied to the election for Seat 2
>     notwithstanding the fact that there were two candidates.
>     My response is that an election cannot be run on different
>     principles. In this particular election the option "none of the
>     above " was
>     introduced for the first time and everyone was aware of this and
>     it applied to all the elections held on that day. The Election
>     guidelines were amended to acomodate this option.
>
>
> Yes indeed and the elections guidelines explicitely addressed the case 
> of only a single candidate running for election and the option " none 
> of the above" in this case got more votes than the sole candidate but 
> is very silent in the case of multiple candidates running for 
> elections with the option "none of the above" getting more votes.
>
> Anytime elections involve the option "none of the above", there are 
> always clear rules on how the results are interpreted and the actions 
> that must be taken when the option "none of the above" get more votes 
> than the multiple candidates.
>
> It's not my intention to teach you something here, but it does look 
> very bizarre that the legal counsel never bothered to help the board 
> to make ?the guidelines unambiguous ?and conform to members expectations.
>
>     Consequently this option has to be taken in consideration when
>     finalising the results.
>     Where there were two candidates. The options for voters were (1)
>     yes for candidate (1)-((2) yes for candidate 2-(3) yes for non of
>     the above.Each one is mutually exclusive.
>     Each score to be counted separately. The majority for either
>     option wins the day.
>
>
> Following ?your reasoning above and the guidelines which say the 
> candidate with the highest votes win, the members and community should 
> then accept "none of the above" as the elected candidate and seated 
> although "none of the above " did not go through Nomcom and was not 
> listed on the candidates slates ?published by Nomcom.
>
> Which means seat 2 should not be declared vacant to be filled by board.
>
> Filling ?seat 2 by board would constitute the violation of "none ?of 
> the above" rights and of our rules and thus expose us to legal litigation.
>
>     One should not create a fictitious majority by adding votes polled
>     by (1) & (2) together. The real majority was to all intents and
>     purposes the option which polled the most votes. There is no need
>     to extrapolate or interpret.
>
>
> There is No fictitious majority being created. It was just an example 
> of how this case could have been interpreted just like you do have 
> your own interpretation.
>
> In many cases, ?abstention is compared to voters in order to decide 
> how to proceed with ?validating an election and counting results..
>
>     Where there was one candidate there were two options- Yes for the
>     single candidate or yes for? "non of the above"
>
>
> The case of a sole candidate is clear as per the guidelines and there 
> are no objections on seat 5 and 6 results.
>
>     My reference to Art 10.2 was based on the decision of the members
>     present at? past AGMMs to have the option of rejecting a single
>     candidate or to give their approval to the single candidate, This
>     has occurred more than once.
>
>
> And once again, ?the case of a single candidate is handled as members 
> agreed to and not debated
>
> Thank you
>
>     Legal Counsel AFRINIC.
>
>
>     On 24/05/2018 21:11, Arnaud AMELINA wrote:
>>     Dear CEO and Chairman
>>
>>     It looks like the Legal counsel has not ?responded to this query
>>     bellow ? regarding this very important issue about the recently
>>     concluded elections.
>>
>>     Could you kindly remind him?
>>
>>     Let us address this to a good conclusion in order to enforce the
>>     respect of our rules and processes.
>>
>>     Regards
>>
>>     Arnaud
>>
>>     Le sam. 19 mai 2018 11:40, Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net
>>     <mailto:Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>> a ?crit?:
>>
>>         Dear Legal Counsel,
>>
>>         Thanks for your input.? Much appreciated.
>>
>>         Your statements reinforce the interpretation of section 9.2
>>         of the guidelines with the origin of the "none of the above"
>>         option in the election process and how votes for this option
>>         are considered in the case of one candidate running for
>>         election for a seat. [Last bullet point]
>>
>>         Case in which the election becomes a "yes" or "no"? vote for
>>         the only candidate.? ?This point?is clear and accepted and
>>         the objection is not for the results for seat 5 and 6.
>>
>>         What has not been clarified is how the same principle came to
>>         be applied for the elections for seat 2 which had two
>>         candidates running for the seat, one of whom got higher votes
>>         than the other, with the total number of members casting
>>         votes in excess of those opting out.
>>
>>         You also?referred to art 10.2 of the constitution?but did not
>>         elaborate on the precedence that occurred that has become an
>>         integral?part of our?guidelines. As precedence automatically
>>         becomes part of the election guidelines, it is important that
>>         we address issues which come up around the election with care
>>         and unambiguously.
>>
>>         Can you be so kind to clarify?
>>
>>         Best wishes
>>         Omo
>>
>>         PS:? Grateful to listers to please keep?this thread confined
>>         to the subject.
>>
>>
>>
>>         On 17 May 2018 at 17:17, Ashok <ashok at afrinic.net
>>         <mailto:ashok at afrinic.net>> wrote:
>>
>>             Dear Members and Community,
>>             Mt views have been sought on the matter under reference.
>>             Please find same hereunder.
>>
>>             On 17/05/2018 14:04, B
>>
>>             *_The Election Process and last AGMM._*
>>
>>             The appointment of Directors is carried out during an
>>             AGMM of the Company ?Art 13.1 of the constitution.
>>
>>             The election of the Directors is carried out in terms of
>>             Art 13.2 of the constitution which refers expressly to
>>             the election process approved by the Board.
>>
>>             MoreoverArt 10.2 of the Constitution refers to precedent
>>             applied during an AFRINIC election and which de facto
>>             become part of the election guidelines.
>>
>>             The election processas it stands today is the one which
>>             was applied duringthe elections held during the last AGMM
>>             without any opposition.
>>
>>             This is what it provides:
>>
>>             *9.2 Paper Ballot on Election Day*
>>
>>             The voting conducted during the Annual General Members'
>>             Meeting is carried out via paper ballots containing a
>>             list of candidate names and a ballot number. Prior to the
>>             vote, all members present or participants holding a proxy
>>             will be requested to register and validate their
>>             membership status.
>>
>>                       + Voters should only vote for one candidate per
>>                         category/region. Each mark on a ballot paper
>>                         represents one vote. A ballot with more than
>>                         one mark per category/region will be
>>                         considered spoilt, and not be counted.
>>                       + The ballot paper should provide voters with
>>                         the option to not vote for any candidate
>>                         (a.k.a. "None of the Above").
>>                       + This will be a secret ballot election. An
>>                         inclusion of any personal data on the ballot
>>                         paper will invalidate the vote and will be
>>                         counted as spoilt.
>>                       + Elections will be closed as soon as the last
>>                         member or proxy present in the meeting room
>>                         casts his/her vote. Candidates with the
>>                         highest number of votes in each category will
>>                         be declared winners.
>>                       + In the event of a tie for an open position,
>>                         voting for that position will be repeated
>>                         (Only by paper ballot) the same day until
>>                         there is a winner.
>>                       + All open positions shall be subject to an
>>                         election process even if there is only one
>>                         candidate. In that event, if the option [none
>>                         of the above] got more votes than the only
>>                         candidate, then the seat shall be considered
>>                         vacant and the Board will be requestedto
>>                         apply provisions of the Bylaws to temporarily
>>                         fill the vacant seat
>>
>>             The last amendment of the election guidelines introduced
>>             the voting option ? None of the Above?. ?(Vide second
>>             bullet point above.)Those voters who have cast their
>>             votes for ? None of the Above? have done so in compliance
>>             with the prevailingconstitution and these are thus valid
>>             votes. Every voter was aware of the new option.
>>
>>             The election guidelines are clear as to what happens when
>>             the ? None of the Above? option has a majority.- (Vide
>>             last bullet point above.)
>>
>>             The election guidelines must be read as a whole and all
>>             the provisions read together.
>>
>>             Legal Counsel ?AFRINIC
>>
>>             17.05.2018
>>
>>             oubakar Barry wrote:
>>>
>>>             Hello Board and Legal Counsel,
>>>
>>>             Good that Omo spotted this.
>>>
>>>             It?s a matter of applying the board election process
>>>             adopted by the board according to section 13.2 of the
>>>             bylaws.
>>>
>>>             https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process
>>>             <https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process>
>>>             describes the process and section 9 spells out how to
>>>             interpret the results in the case there are more than
>>>             one candidate and in the case there is only one
>>>             candidate. These two cases are addressed separately and
>>>             differently.
>>>
>>>             It?s important to hear from the Board and the Legal
>>>             Counsel, as the elections can be challenged.
>>>
>>>             Please advise.
>>>
>>>             Regards.
>>>
>>>             Boubakar
>>>
>>>
>>>             On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 5:24 PM, Omo Oaiya
>>>             <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net <mailto:Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>>                 Greetings All,
>>>
>>>                 I am looking at the BoD election process and it
>>>                 seems to me that the recent e-mail from the Board
>>>                 Chair seeking nominations for vacant seats should
>>>                 not be extended to Western Africa.
>>>
>>>                 The particular clause I am referring to is in 9.2 -
>>>                 https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process
>>>                 <https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process>
>>>>
>>>>                  *
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                     Elections will be closed as soon as the last
>>>>                     member or proxy present in the meeting room
>>>>                     casts his/her vote. Candidates with the highest
>>>>                     number of votes in each category will be
>>>>                     declared winners
>>>>
>>>                 I see from the list for West Africa that the
>>>                 candidate with the highest number of votes should
>>>                 have been declared winner and this is Dr Ousmane
>>>                 Tessa. ?(btw, Dr Adewale Adedokun needs his name
>>>                 spelt correctly)
>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 *Western Africa - Seat 2*
>>>>
>>>>                 Dr Adelawe Abedekon - 43
>>>>
>>>>                 Dr Ousmane Moussa Tessa - 56
>>>>
>>>>                 None of the above - 78
>>>>
>>>>                 /Result: The seat is vacant/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>                 The results from the other regions are valid and
>>>                 supported by the following clause as they had one
>>>                 candidate.
>>>>
>>>>                       o All open positions shall be subject to an
>>>>                         election process even if there is only one
>>>>                         candidate. In that event, if the option
>>>>                         [none of the above] got more votes than the
>>>>                         only candidate, then the seat shall be
>>>>                         considered vacant and the Board will be
>>>>                         requested to apply provisions of the Bylaws
>>>>                         to temporarily fill the vacant seat.
>>>>
>>>
>>>                 Can AfriNIC and the nomcom please clarify? ? We
>>>                 should not deprive Dr Tessa of a rightful win ?.
>>>                 especially in the circumstances we find ourselves.
>>>
>>>                 Omo
>>>
>>>                 _______________________________________________
>>>                 Community-Discuss mailing list
>>>                 Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>>>                 <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>>>                 https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>>                 <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>             _______________________________________________
>>>             Members-Discuss mailing list
>>>             Members-Discuss at afrinic.net
>>>             <mailto:Members-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>>>             https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
>>>             <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss>
>>
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         Community-Discuss mailing list
>>         Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>>         <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>>         https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>         <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
>>
>
>

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From madomey at hotmail.com  Wed May 30 07:47:51 2018
From: madomey at hotmail.com (Marcus K. G. Adomey)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2018 07:47:51 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <704326bc-7d07-4eac-f5b6-bd9aa77924fb@afrinic.net>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <CAGrBSSh8qc03+GzFLOzX-_6edVgiO1S4iUKeiYB3Yg-S43H+Rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <dd22da4f-9308-0e81-85d2-f50839f5ed8f@afrinic.net>
 <CAG1eoi2ARyHcs7b0BCjhpvMv3XZpRqMz6ubPm24cR7VDu4Nyqw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGDMR_cykPufKm1bg=hPFGedQ3LLFOHpGaB3Mj-0JNs4yjY=ZA@mail.gmail.com>
 <a917fef3-c575-91fa-be3e-6d11dd3cd523@afrinic.net>
 <CAGDMR_f-yYR6UxohpYL01aWWT2kyADDs22XK52h+u8Dmw-FOyw@mail.gmail.com>,
 <704326bc-7d07-4eac-f5b6-bd9aa77924fb@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <AM0PR0602MB3603B0F5E84FB8A404F964F5B96C0@AM0PR0602MB3603.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>

Dear Board and Community,

I have been following to this discussions  since the beginning . Seems weird that Afrinic is also engaged in disputes after last election. The guidelines are cristal clear  and I still can't to understand the reasoning  behind not declaring the candidate with the highest  votes  elected for seat 2. .

If we made a mistake at the AGMM, can't we simply rectify it ?



Marcus

Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>

________________________________
From: Ashok <ashok at afrinic.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 6:58:36 AM
To: Arnaud AMELINA
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC; AFRINIC Board of Directors' List; AfriNIC Discuss
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections

Dear Arnaud,
I thank you for sharing your thoughts on the issue under hand.
Ashok.

On 30/05/2018 01:56, Arnaud AMELINA wrote:
Dear Ashok as a lawyer you know that there is the law and spirit of the law, please read bellow

2018-05-25 11:18 GMT+00:00 Ashok <ashok at afrinic.net<mailto:ashok at afrinic.net>>:
Dear All,
I apologize for having  missed your rejoinder to my mail.

Despite the delays, we appreciate your response as the matter is of great concern.

Your first question regards the reason as to why the same principle has been applied to the election for Seat 2
notwithstanding the fact that there were two candidates.
My response is that an election cannot be run on different principles. In this particular election the option "none of the above " was
introduced for the first time and everyone was aware of this and it applied to all the elections held on that day. The Election guidelines were amended to acomodate this option.

Yes indeed and the elections guidelines explicitely addressed the case of only a single candidate running for election and the option " none of the above" in this case got more votes than the sole candidate but is very silent in the case of multiple candidates running for elections with the option "none of the above" getting more votes.

Anytime elections involve the option "none of the above", there are always clear rules on how the results are interpreted and the actions that must be taken when the option "none of the above" get more votes than the multiple candidates.

It's not my intention to teach you something here, but it does look very bizarre that the legal counsel never bothered to help the board to make  the guidelines unambiguous  and conform to members expectations.

Consequently this option has to be taken in consideration when finalising the results.
Where there were two candidates. The options for voters were (1) yes for candidate (1)-((2) yes for candidate 2-(3) yes for non of the above.Each one is mutually exclusive.
Each score to be counted separately. The majority for either option wins the day.

Following  your reasoning above and the guidelines which say the candidate with the highest votes win, the members and community should then accept "none of the above" as the elected candidate and seated although "none of the above " did not go through Nomcom and was not listed on the candidates slates  published by Nomcom.

Which means seat 2 should not be declared vacant to be filled by board.

Filling  seat 2 by board would constitute the violation of "none  of the above" rights and of our rules and thus expose us to legal litigation.


One should not create a fictitious majority by adding votes polled by (1) & (2) together. The real majority was to all intents and purposes the option which polled the most votes. There is no need to extrapolate or interpret.

There is No fictitious majority being created. It was just an example of how this case could have been interpreted just like you do have your own interpretation.

In many cases,  abstention is compared to voters in order to decide how to proceed with  validating an election and counting results..


Where there was one candidate there were two options- Yes for the single candidate or yes for  "non of the above"

The case of a sole candidate is clear as per the guidelines and there are no objections on seat 5 and 6 results.

My reference to Art 10.2 was based on the decision of the members present at  past AGMMs to have the option of rejecting a single candidate or to give their approval to the single candidate, This has occurred more than once.

And once again,  the case of a single candidate is handled as members agreed to and not debated

Thank you


Legal Counsel AFRINIC.


On 24/05/2018 21:11, Arnaud AMELINA wrote:
Dear CEO and Chairman

It looks like the Legal counsel has not  responded to this query bellow   regarding this very important issue about the recently concluded elections.

Could you kindly remind him?

Let us address this to a good conclusion in order to enforce the respect of our rules and processes.

Regards

Arnaud

Le sam. 19 mai 2018 11:40, Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net<mailto:Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>> a ?crit :
Dear Legal Counsel,

Thanks for your input.  Much appreciated.

Your statements reinforce the interpretation of section 9.2 of the guidelines with the origin of the "none of the above" option in the election process and how votes for this option are considered in the case of one candidate running for election for a seat. [Last bullet point]

Case in which the election becomes a "yes" or "no"  vote for the only candidate.   This point is clear and accepted and the objection is not for the results for seat 5 and 6.

What has not been clarified is how the same principle came to be applied for the elections for seat 2 which had two candidates running for the seat, one of whom got higher votes than the other, with the total number of members casting votes in excess of those opting out.

You also referred to art 10.2 of the constitution but did not elaborate on the precedence that occurred that has become an integral part of our guidelines.  As precedence automatically becomes part of the election guidelines, it is important that we address issues which come up around the election with care and unambiguously.

Can you be so kind to clarify?

Best wishes
Omo

PS:  Grateful to listers to please keep this thread confined to the subject.



On 17 May 2018 at 17:17, Ashok <ashok at afrinic.net<mailto:ashok at afrinic.net>> wrote:
Dear Members and Community,
Mt views have been sought on the matter under reference.
Please find same hereunder.

On 17/05/2018 14:04, B
The Election Process and last AGMM.
The appointment of Directors is carried out during an AGMM of the Company ?Art 13.1 of the constitution.
The election of the Directors is carried out in terms of Art 13.2 of the constitution which refers expressly to the election process approved by the Board.
Moreover  Art 10.2 of the Constitution refers to precedent applied during an AFRINIC election and which de facto become part of the election guidelines.
The election process  as it stands today is the one which was applied during  the elections held during the last AGMM without any opposition.
This is what it provides:
9.2 Paper Ballot on Election Day
The voting conducted during the Annual General Members' Meeting is carried out via paper ballots containing a list of candidate names and a ballot number. Prior to the vote, all members present or participants holding a proxy will be requested to register and validate their membership status.

        *   Voters should only vote for one candidate per category/region. Each mark on a ballot paper represents one vote. A ballot with more than one mark per category/region will be considered spoilt, and not be counted.
        *   The ballot paper should provide voters with the option to not vote for any candidate (a.k.a. "None of the Above").
        *   This will be a secret ballot election. An inclusion of any personal data on the ballot paper will invalidate the vote and will be counted as spoilt.
        *   Elections will be closed as soon as the last member or proxy present in the meeting room casts his/her vote. Candidates with the highest number of votes in each category will be declared winners.
        *   In the event of a tie for an open position, voting for that position will be repeated (Only by paper ballot) the same day until there is a winner.
        *   All open positions shall be subject to an election process even if there is only one candidate. In that event, if the option [none of the above] got more votes than the only candidate, then the seat shall be considered vacant and the Board will be requested to apply provisions of the Bylaws to temporarily fill the vacant seat
The last amendment of the election guidelines introduced the voting option ? None of the Above?. ?(Vide second bullet point above.)Those voters who have cast their votes for ? None of the Above? have done so in compliance with the prevailing  constitution  and these are thus valid votes. Every voter was aware of the new option.
The election guidelines are clear as to what happens when the ? None of the Above? option has a majority.- (Vide last bullet point above.)
The election guidelines must be read as a whole and all the provisions read together.
Legal Counsel ?AFRINIC
17.05.2018
oubakar Barry wrote:

Hello Board and Legal Counsel,

Good that Omo spotted this.

It?s a matter of applying the board election process adopted by the board according to section 13.2 of the bylaws.

https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process describes the process and section 9 spells out how to interpret the results in the case there are more than one candidate and in the case there is only one candidate. These two cases are addressed separately and differently.

It?s important to hear from the Board and the Legal Counsel, as the elections can be challenged.

Please advise.

Regards.

Boubakar

On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 5:24 PM, Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net<mailto:Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>> wrote:
Greetings All,

I am looking at the BoD election process and it seems to me that the recent e-mail from the Board Chair seeking nominations for vacant seats should not be extended to Western Africa.

The particular clause I am referring to is in 9.2 - https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process

  *
Elections will be closed as soon as the last member or proxy present in the meeting room casts his/her vote. Candidates with the highest number of votes in each category will be declared winners

I see from the list for West Africa that the candidate with the highest number of votes should have been declared winner and this is Dr Ousmane Tessa.  (btw, Dr Adewale Adedokun needs his name spelt correctly)


Western Africa - Seat 2

Dr Adelawe Abedekon - 43

Dr Ousmane Moussa Tessa - 56

None of the above - 78

Result: The seat is vacant


The results from the other regions are valid and supported by the following clause as they had one candidate.

     *   All open positions shall be subject to an election process even if there is only one candidate. In that event, if the option [none of the above] got more votes than the only candidate, then the seat shall be considered vacant and the Board will be requested to apply provisions of the Bylaws to temporarily fill the vacant seat.

Can AfriNIC and the nomcom please clarify?   We should not deprive Dr Tessa of a rightful win ?. especially in the circumstances we find ourselves.

Omo

_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss






_______________________________________________
Members-Discuss mailing list
Members-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Members-Discuss at afrinic.net>
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss



_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss



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From ousmane at musatesa.net  Wed May 30 10:02:55 2018
From: ousmane at musatesa.net (Ousmane MOUSSA TESSA)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2018 11:02:55 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <704326bc-7d07-4eac-f5b6-bd9aa77924fb@afrinic.net>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <CAGrBSSh8qc03+GzFLOzX-_6edVgiO1S4iUKeiYB3Yg-S43H+Rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <dd22da4f-9308-0e81-85d2-f50839f5ed8f@afrinic.net>
 <CAG1eoi2ARyHcs7b0BCjhpvMv3XZpRqMz6ubPm24cR7VDu4Nyqw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGDMR_cykPufKm1bg=hPFGedQ3LLFOHpGaB3Mj-0JNs4yjY=ZA@mail.gmail.com>
 <a917fef3-c575-91fa-be3e-6d11dd3cd523@afrinic.net>
 <CAGDMR_f-yYR6UxohpYL01aWWT2kyADDs22XK52h+u8Dmw-FOyw@mail.gmail.com>
 <704326bc-7d07-4eac-f5b6-bd9aa77924fb@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <e7cacef5a788a8bf8187353e01e8db3f@musatesa.net>

Dear Ashok and members of AfriNIC community,

As a candidate, I feel obliged to back again in this debate. My clear 
intention is not to gain as seat by hook or by crook, but just to let 
our community behaves beyond personal and immediate interest.
So, let me quote your main argument as
"Where there were two candidates. The options for voters were (1) yes 
for candidate (1)-((2) yes for candidate 2-(3) yes for non of the 
above.Each one is mutually exclusive.
Each score to be counted separately. The majority for either option wins 
the day. One should not create a fictitious majority by adding votes 
polled by (1) & (2) together. The real majority was to all intents and 
purposes the option which polled the most votes. There is no need to 
extrapolate or interpret. "

Great! No room for extrapolation or interpretation! Unfortunately, as 
member of community, it will, as there no EXPLICIT RULES! You referred 
only to IMPLICIT RULES about the notion of MAJORITY.

Despite all, you say, in the same line as some people here, it's 
important to accept that "None of both" can't be considered stand alone! 
Therefore, primo one has to confront "None of both" with "One of them". 
So, if "None of both"
exceeds "One of them", right, "None of both" wins. Otherwise, you can't 
discard the majority of voters who stand for one of the two candidates, 
by the same way, they say clear the candidates feat to the job!

This is only guided by common sense, nor extrapolation, nor 
interpretation!

The lesson to be learned from all these raws is the community of AfriNIC 
has to come back to the spirit behind it's vision, it's mission, guided 
by some core values bearing in mind some critical success factors.

AfriNIC, En avant!

Ousmane



Le 30-05-2018 07:58, Ashok a ?crit?:
> Dear Arnaud,
> I thank you for sharing your thoughts on the issue under hand.
> Ashok.
> 
> On 30/05/2018 01:56, Arnaud AMELINA wrote:
> 
>> Dear Ashok as a lawyer you know that there is the law and spirit of
>> the law, please read bellow
>> 
>> 2018-05-25 11:18 GMT+00:00 Ashok <ashok at afrinic.net>:
>> 
>>> Dear All,
>>> I apologize for having  missed your rejoinder to my mail.
>> 
>> Despite the delays, we appreciate your response as the matter is of
>> great concern.
>> 
>>> Your first question regards the reason as to why the same
>>> principle has been applied to the election for Seat 2
>>> notwithstanding the fact that there were two candidates.
>>> My response is that an election cannot be run on different
>>> principles. In this particular election the option "none of the
>>> above " was
>>> introduced for the first time and everyone was aware of this and
>>> it applied to all the elections held on that day. The Election
>>> guidelines were amended to acomodate this option.
>> 
>> Yes indeed and the elections guidelines explicitely addressed the
>> case of only a single candidate running for election and the option
>> " none of the above" in this case got more votes than the sole
>> candidate but is very silent in the case of multiple candidates
>> running for elections with the option "none of the above" getting
>> more votes.
>> 
>> Anytime elections involve the option "none of the above", there are
>> always clear rules on how the results are interpreted and the
>> actions that must be taken when the option "none of the above" get
>> more votes than the multiple candidates.
>> 
>> It's not my intention to teach you something here, but it does look
>> very bizarre that the legal counsel never bothered to help the board
>> to make  the guidelines unambiguous  and conform to members
>> expectations.
>> 
>>> Consequently this option has to be taken in consideration when
>>> finalising the results.
>>> Where there were two candidates. The options for voters were (1)
>>> yes for candidate (1)-((2) yes for candidate 2-(3) yes for non of
>>> the above.Each one is mutually exclusive.
>>> Each score to be counted separately. The majority for either
>>> option wins the day.
>> 
>> Following  your reasoning above and the guidelines which say the
>> candidate with the highest votes win, the members and community
>> should then accept "none of the above" as the elected candidate and
>> seated although "none of the above " did not go through Nomcom and
>> was not listed on the candidates slates  published by Nomcom.
>> 
>> Which means seat 2 should not be declared vacant to be filled by
>> board.
>> 
>> Filling  seat 2 by board would constitute the violation of "none  of
>> the above" rights and of our rules and thus expose us to legal
>> litigation.
>> 
>>> One should not create a fictitious majority by adding votes polled
>>> by (1) & (2) together. The real majority was to all intents and
>>> purposes the option which polled the most votes. There is no need
>>> to extrapolate or interpret.
>> 
>> There is No fictitious majority being created. It was just an
>> example of how this case could have been interpreted just like you
>> do have your own interpretation.
>> 
>> In many cases,  abstention is compared to voters in order to decide
>> how to proceed with  validating an election and counting results..
>> 
>>> Where there was one candidate there were two options- Yes for the
>>> single candidate or yes for  "non of the above"
>> 
>> The case of a sole candidate is clear as per the guidelines and
>> there are no objections on seat 5 and 6 results.
>> 
>>> My reference to Art 10.2 was based on the decision of the members
>>> present at  past AGMMs to have the option of rejecting a single
>>> candidate or to give their approval to the single candidate, This
>>> has occurred more than once.
>> 
>> And once again,  the case of a single candidate is handled as
>> members agreed to and not debated
>> 
>> Thank you
>> 
>> Legal Counsel AFRINIC.
>> 
>> On 24/05/2018 21:11, Arnaud AMELINA wrote:
>> 
>> Dear CEO and Chairman
>> 
>> It looks like the Legal counsel has not  responded to this query
>> bellow   regarding this very important issue about the recently
>> concluded elections.
>> 
>> Could you kindly remind him?
>> 
>> Let us address this to a good conclusion in order to enforce the
>> respect of our rules and processes.
>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> Arnaud
>> 
>> Le sam. 19 mai 2018 11:40, Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net> a ?crit
>> :
>> 
>> Dear Legal Counsel,
>> 
>> Thanks for your input.  Much appreciated.
>> 
>> Your statements reinforce the interpretation of section 9.2 of the
>> guidelines with the origin of the "none of the above" option in the
>> election process and how votes for this option are considered in the
>> case of one candidate running for election for a seat. [Last bullet
>> point]
>> 
>> Case in which the election becomes a "yes" or "no"  vote for the
>> only candidate.   This point is clear and accepted and the objection
>> is not for the results for seat 5 and 6.
>> 
>> What has not been clarified is how the same principle came to be
>> applied for the elections for seat 2 which had two candidates
>> running for the seat, one of whom got higher votes than the other,
>> with the total number of members casting votes in excess of those
>> opting out.
>> 
>> You also referred to art 10.2 of the constitution but did not
>> elaborate on the precedence that occurred that has become an
>> integral part of our guidelines.  As precedence automatically
>> becomes part of the election guidelines, it is important that we
>> address issues which come up around the election with care and
>> unambiguously.
>> 
>> Can you be so kind to clarify?
>> 
>> Best wishes
>> Omo
>> 
>> PS:  Grateful to listers to please keep this thread confined to the
>> subject.
>> 
>> On 17 May 2018 at 17:17, Ashok <ashok at afrinic.net> wrote:
>> 
>> Dear Members and Community,
>> Mt views have been sought on the matter under reference.
>> Please find same hereunder.
>> 
>> On 17/05/2018 14:04, B
>> 
>> THE ELECTION PROCESS AND LAST AGMM.
>> 
>> The appointment of Directors is carried out during an AGMM of the
>> Company ?Art 13.1 of the constitution.
>> 
>> The election of the Directors is carried out in terms of Art 13.2 of
>> the constitution which refers expressly to the election process
>> approved by the Board.
>> 
>> Moreover  Art 10.2 of the Constitution refers to precedent applied
>> during an AFRINIC election and which de facto become part of the
>> election guidelines.
>> 
>> The election process  as it stands today is the one which was
>> applied during  the elections held during the last AGMM without any
>> opposition.
>> 
>> This is what it provides:
>> 
>> 9.2 PAPER BALLOT ON ELECTION DAY
>> 
>> The voting conducted during the Annual General Members' Meeting is
>> carried out via paper ballots containing a list of candidate names
>> and a ballot number. Prior to the vote, all members present or
>> participants holding a proxy will be requested to register and
>> validate their membership status.
>> 
>> * Voters should only vote for one candidate per category/region.
>> Each mark on a ballot paper represents one vote. A ballot with more
>> than one mark per category/region will be considered spoilt, and not
>> be counted.
>> * The ballot paper should provide voters with the option to not
>> vote for any candidate (a.k.a. "None of the Above").
>> * This will be a secret ballot election. An inclusion of any
>> personal data on the ballot paper will invalidate the vote and will
>> be counted as spoilt.
>> * Elections will be closed as soon as the last member or proxy
>> present in the meeting room casts his/her vote. Candidates with the
>> highest number of votes in each category will be declared winners.
>> * In the event of a tie for an open position, voting for that
>> position will be repeated (Only by paper ballot) the same day until
>> there is a winner.
>> * All open positions shall be subject to an election process even
>> if there is only one candidate. In that event, if the option [none
>> of the above] got more votes than the only candidate, then the seat
>> shall be considered vacant and the Board will be requested to apply
>> provisions of the Bylaws to temporarily fill the vacant seat
>> 
>> The last amendment of the election guidelines introduced the voting
>> option ? None of the Above?. ?(Vide second bullet point
>> above.)Those voters who have cast their votes for ? None of the
>> Above? have done so in compliance with the prevailing
>> constitution  and these are thus valid votes. Every voter was aware
>> of the new option.
>> 
>> The election guidelines are clear as to what happens when the ?
>> None of the Above? option has a majority.- (Vide last bullet point
>> above.)
>> 
>> The election guidelines must be read as a whole and all the
>> provisions read together.
>> 
>> Legal Counsel ?AFRINIC
>> 
>> 17.05.2018 oubakar Barry wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Board and Legal Counsel,
>> 
>> Good that Omo spotted this.
>> 
>> It?s a matter of applying the board election process adopted by
>> the board according to section 13.2 of the bylaws.
>> 
>> https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process [1]
>> describes the process and section 9 spells out how to interpret the
>> results in the case there are more than one candidate and in the
>> case there is only one candidate. These two cases are addressed
>> separately and differently.
>> 
>> It?s important to hear from the Board and the Legal Counsel, as
>> the elections can be challenged.
>> 
>> Please advise.
>> 
>> Regards.
>> 
>> Boubakar
>> 
>> On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 5:24 PM, Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Greetings All,
>> 
>> I am looking at the BoD election process and it seems to me that the
>> recent e-mail from the Board Chair seeking nominations for vacant
>> seats should not be extended to Western Africa.
>> 
>> The particular clause I am referring to is in 9.2 -
>> https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process [1]
>> 
>> *
>> Elections will be closed as soon as the last member or proxy present
>> in the meeting room casts his/her vote. Candidates with the highest
>> number of votes in each category will be declared winners
>> 
>> I see from the list for West Africa that the candidate with the
>> highest number of votes should have been declared winner and this is
>> Dr Ousmane Tessa.  (btw, Dr Adewale Adedokun needs his name spelt
>> correctly)
>> 
>> WESTERN AFRICA - SEAT 2
>> 
>> Dr Adelawe Abedekon - 43
>> 
>> Dr Ousmane Moussa Tessa - 56
>> 
>> None of the above - 78
>> 
>> _Result: The seat is vacant_
>> 
>> The results from the other regions are valid and supported by the
>> following clause as they had one candidate.
>> 
>> * All open positions shall be subject to an election process even
>> if there is only one candidate. In that event, if the option [none
>> of the above] got more votes than the only candidate, then the seat
>> shall be considered vacant and the Board will be requested to apply
>> provisions of the Bylaws to temporarily fill the vacant seat.
>> 
>> Can AfriNIC and the nomcom please clarify?   We should not deprive
>> Dr Tessa of a rightful win ?. especially in the circumstances we
>> find ourselves.
>> 
>> Omo
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss [2]
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Members-Discuss mailing list
> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss [3]
> 
>  _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss [2]
> 
> 
> 
> Links:
> ------
> [1] https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process
> [2] https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> [3] https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

-- 

**************************************************
Dr Ousmane MOUSSA TESSA
D?partement de math?matiques et d'informatique
Universit? A. Moumouni, Niamey, NIGER
****************************************************
Adresse postale: B.P. 10.111 Niamey, NIGER
T?l?phone  (domicile): +227 20 31 52 28
(mobile) :  +227 93 77 74 93/ 96 27 99 92 / 91 49 16 39
****************************************************
E-mail: ousmane(at)musatesa.net ou musatesa(at)yahoo.com
Web site: www.musatesa.net
Skype : musatesa
************************************************



From amelnaud at gmail.com  Wed May 30 17:20:43 2018
From: amelnaud at gmail.com (Arnaud AMELINA)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2018 17:20:43 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <DF492E41-15A4-4A83-82AA-E381A49BAE9E@delong.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <CAGrBSSh8qc03+GzFLOzX-_6edVgiO1S4iUKeiYB3Yg-S43H+Rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <dd22da4f-9308-0e81-85d2-f50839f5ed8f@afrinic.net>
 <CAG1eoi2ARyHcs7b0BCjhpvMv3XZpRqMz6ubPm24cR7VDu4Nyqw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGDMR_cykPufKm1bg=hPFGedQ3LLFOHpGaB3Mj-0JNs4yjY=ZA@mail.gmail.com>
 <a917fef3-c575-91fa-be3e-6d11dd3cd523@afrinic.net>
 <CAGDMR_f-yYR6UxohpYL01aWWT2kyADDs22XK52h+u8Dmw-FOyw@mail.gmail.com>
 <DF492E41-15A4-4A83-82AA-E381A49BAE9E@delong.com>
Message-ID: <CAGDMR_dnXSu3T-i4DX3T0+jbWm-n=yzrddXYuHPf+tTd70X6zg@mail.gmail.com>

Owen,

2018-05-29 22:34 GMT+00:00 Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com>:

> Arnaud,
>
> While I agree that additional clarity is needed and I agree that there is
> some validity to the claim that none of the above MAY not have been a
> legitimate choice to place on the ballot, I think we cannot go changing the
> rules of the election and violating the expectations of the voters,
> membership, and community after the election has run.
>

Voters, membership and community are saying: <<a mistake has been made;
let's fix it!>>


>
> Nobody raised an objection to the presence of none of the above on the
> ballot for seat 2 prior to or during the election.
>

No one is raising objection even now on  this option being on the ballot as
the guidelines are clear on that. the issue at hand is the correct
implementation  of the guidelines as written.


>
> Since there were more than enough voters who selected none of the above to
> change the result among the remaining two candidates, it is not legitimate
> to simply discard the none of the above votes and declare one of those
> candidates a winner. Indeed, I would argue that is the worst possible
> choice among all other options.
>
> The other options as I see it are:
>
> 1. Allow the board to treat the seat as vacant and appoint a board member
> until the
> next AGMM.
>
> 2. Treat none of the above as a valid election result (in which case it
> should be
> considered the same for all 3 seats) and preclude the board from appointing
> anyone to the seat(s) until an election can be run.
>
>
> 3. Treat none of the above as a valid election result only for seat 2 and
> preclude
> the board from appointing seat 2 while still allowing them to appoint
> seats 5
> and 6.
>
> As I see it, the best option is option 1. It allows the organization to
> proceed with a full board until the next AGMM where a hopefully more
> effective election can be accomplished.
>
> I think option 2 is bad because it leaves the board precariously
> short-handed with only 5 of the expected 8 members, including the CEO. (The
> 3 elected members which remain, whoever is appointed to fill Haitham?s
> vacancy, and the CEO).
>
> The problem I have with option 3 is I have trouble justifying treating the
> election of ?none of the above? differently in this circumstance than in
> the case of a single unopposed candidate. In both cases, more voters felt
> that they didn?t want any of the options on the ballot and voted not to
> elect any fo the candidates. The outcome is, IMHO, the same regardless of
> the number of candidates and should be handled identically.
>

Why? There are places in the world where "none of the above" is on ballot
and has not effect on the results
and candidates with the highest votes wins. It is matter of the elections
rules. In the current  situation,  the guidelines are clear  and explicit
 on how we should  handle the results. So let follow it and engage on
discussions  for amending the rules  if we see need to do so.


>
> Hopefully additional clarity can be achieved prior to the next election
> and we won?t have to face this issue again. Personally, I like the idea of
> having ?none of the above? as an option in all cases.
>

Clarity and fairness is the outcome of the complaint regarding seat 2 here
imho; for the rest we can agree to disagree.


>
> Owen
>

Thanks


>
> On May 29, 2018, at 14:56 , Arnaud AMELINA <amelnaud at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Ashok as a lawyer you know that there is the law and spirit of the
> law, please read bellow
>
> 2018-05-25 11:18 GMT+00:00 Ashok <ashok at afrinic.net>:
>
>> Dear All,
>> I apologize for having  missed your rejoinder to my mail.
>>
>
> Despite the delays, we appreciate your response as the matter is of great
> concern.
>
>
>> Your first question regards the reason as to why the same principle has
>> been applied to the election for Seat 2
>> notwithstanding the fact that there were two candidates.
>> My response is that an election cannot be run on different principles. In
>> this particular election the option "none of the above " was
>> introduced for the first time and everyone was aware of this and it
>> applied to all the elections held on that day. The Election guidelines were
>> amended to acomodate this option.
>>
>
> Yes indeed and the elections guidelines explicitely addressed the case of
> only a single candidate running for election and the option " none of the
> above" in this case got more votes than the sole candidate but is very
> silent in the case of multiple candidates running for elections with the
> option "none of the above" getting more votes.
>
> Anytime elections involve the option "none of the above", there are always
> clear rules on how the results are interpreted and the actions that must be
> taken when the option "none of the above" get more votes than the multiple
> candidates.
>
> It's not my intention to teach you something here, but it does look very
> bizarre that the legal counsel never bothered to help the board to make
>  the guidelines unambiguous  and conform to members expectations.
>
>
>> Consequently this option has to be taken in consideration when finalising
>> the results.
>> Where there were two candidates. The options for voters were (1) yes for
>> candidate (1)-((2) yes for candidate 2-(3) yes for non of the above.Each
>> one is mutually exclusive.
>> Each score to be counted separately. The majority for either option wins
>> the day.
>>
>
> Following  your reasoning above and the guidelines which say the candidate
> with the highest votes win, the members and community should then accept
> "none of the above" as the elected candidate and seated although "none of
> the above " did not go through Nomcom and was not listed on the candidates
> slates  published by Nomcom.
>
> Which means seat 2 should not be declared vacant to be filled by board.
>
> Filling  seat 2 by board would constitute the violation of "none  of the
> above" rights and of our rules and thus expose us to legal litigation.
>
>
>
>> One should not create a fictitious majority by adding votes polled by (1)
>> & (2) together. The real majority was to all intents and purposes the
>> option which polled the most votes. There is no need to extrapolate or
>> interpret.
>>
>
> There is No fictitious majority being created. It was just an example of
> how this case could have been interpreted just like you do have your own
> interpretation.
>
> In many cases,  abstention is compared to voters in order to decide how to
> proceed with  validating an election and counting results..
>
>
>
>> Where there was one candidate there were two options- Yes for the single
>> candidate or yes for  "non of the above"
>>
>
> The case of a sole candidate is clear as per the guidelines and there are
> no objections on seat 5 and 6 results.
>
>
>> My reference to Art 10.2 was based on the decision of the members present
>> at  past AGMMs to have the option of rejecting a single candidate or to
>> give their approval to the single candidate, This has occurred more than
>> once.
>>
>
> And once again,  the case of a single candidate is handled as members
> agreed to and not debated
>
> Thank you
>
>
>
>> Legal Counsel AFRINIC.
>>
>>
>> On 24/05/2018 21:11, Arnaud AMELINA wrote:
>>
>> Dear CEO and Chairman
>>
>> It looks like the Legal counsel has not  responded to this query bellow
>> regarding this very important issue about the recently concluded elections.
>>
>> Could you kindly remind him?
>>
>> Let us address this to a good conclusion in order to enforce the respect
>> of our rules and processes.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Arnaud
>>
>> Le sam. 19 mai 2018 11:40, Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net> a ?crit :
>>
>>> Dear Legal Counsel,
>>>
>>> Thanks for your input.  Much appreciated.
>>>
>>> Your statements reinforce the interpretation of section 9.2 of the
>>> guidelines with the origin of the "none of the above" option in the
>>> election process and how votes for this option are considered in the case
>>> of one candidate running for election for a seat. [Last bullet point]
>>>
>>> Case in which the election becomes a "yes" or "no"  vote for the only
>>> candidate.   This point is clear and accepted and the objection is not for
>>> the results for seat 5 and 6.
>>>
>>> What has not been clarified is how the same principle came to be applied
>>> for the elections for seat 2 which had two candidates running for the seat,
>>> one of whom got higher votes than the other, with the total number of
>>> members casting votes in excess of those opting out.
>>>
>>> You also referred to art 10.2 of the constitution but did not elaborate
>>> on the precedence that occurred that has become an integral part of
>>> our guidelines.  As precedence automatically becomes part of the election
>>> guidelines, it is important that we address issues which come up around the
>>> election with care and unambiguously.
>>>
>>> Can you be so kind to clarify?
>>>
>>> Best wishes
>>> Omo
>>>
>>> PS:  Grateful to listers to please keep this thread confined to the
>>> subject.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 17 May 2018 at 17:17, Ashok <ashok at afrinic.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Members and Community,
>>>> Mt views have been sought on the matter under reference.
>>>> Please find same hereunder.
>>>>
>>>> On 17/05/2018 14:04, B
>>>>
>>>> *The Election Process and last AGMM.*
>>>>
>>>> The appointment of Directors is carried out during an AGMM of the
>>>> Company ?Art 13.1 of the constitution.
>>>>
>>>> The election of the Directors is carried out in terms of Art 13.2 of
>>>> the constitution which refers expressly to the election process approved by
>>>> the Board.
>>>>
>>>> Moreover  Art 10.2 of the Constitution refers to precedent applied
>>>> during an AFRINIC election and which de facto become part of the election
>>>> guidelines.
>>>>
>>>> The election process  as it stands today is the one which was applied
>>>> during  the elections held during the last AGMM without any opposition.
>>>>
>>>> This is what it provides:
>>>>
>>>> *9.2 Paper Ballot on Election Day*
>>>>
>>>> The voting conducted during the Annual General Members' Meeting is
>>>> carried out via paper ballots containing a list of candidate names and a
>>>> ballot number. Prior to the vote, all members present or participants
>>>> holding a proxy will be requested to register and validate their membership
>>>> status.
>>>>
>>>>    - Voters should only vote for one candidate per category/region.
>>>>          Each mark on a ballot paper represents one vote. A ballot with more than
>>>>          one mark per category/region will be considered spoilt, and not be counted.
>>>>          - The ballot paper should provide voters with the option to
>>>>          not vote for any candidate (a.k.a. "None of the Above").
>>>>          - This will be a secret ballot election. An inclusion of any
>>>>          personal data on the ballot paper will invalidate the vote and will be
>>>>          counted as spoilt.
>>>>          - Elections will be closed as soon as the last member or
>>>>          proxy present in the meeting room casts his/her vote. Candidates with the
>>>>          highest number of votes in each category will be declared winners.
>>>>          - In the event of a tie for an open position, voting for that
>>>>          position will be repeated (Only by paper ballot) the same day until there
>>>>          is a winner.
>>>>          - All open positions shall be subject to an election process
>>>>          even if there is only one candidate. In that event, if the option [none of
>>>>          the above] got more votes than the only candidate, then the seat shall be
>>>>          considered vacant and the Board will be requested to apply
>>>>          provisions of the Bylaws to temporarily fill the vacant seat
>>>>
>>>> The last amendment of the election guidelines introduced the voting
>>>> option ? None of the Above?. ?(Vide second bullet point above.)Those voters
>>>> who have cast their votes for ? None of the Above? have done so in
>>>> compliance with the prevailing  constitution  and these are thus valid
>>>> votes. Every voter was aware of the new option.
>>>>
>>>> The election guidelines are clear as to what happens when the ? None of
>>>> the Above? option has a majority.- (Vide last bullet point above.)
>>>>
>>>> The election guidelines must be read as a whole and all the provisions
>>>> read together.
>>>>
>>>> Legal Counsel ?AFRINIC
>>>>
>>>> 17.05.2018
>>>> oubakar Barry wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello Board and Legal Counsel,
>>>>
>>>> Good that Omo spotted this.
>>>>
>>>> It?s a matter of applying the board election process adopted by the
>>>> board according to section 13.2 of the bylaws.
>>>>
>>>> https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process
>>>> describes the process and section 9 spells out how to interpret the results
>>>> in the case there are more than one candidate and in the case there is only
>>>> one candidate. These two cases are addressed separately and differently.
>>>>
>>>> It?s important to hear from the Board and the Legal Counsel, as the
>>>> elections can be challenged.
>>>>
>>>> Please advise.
>>>>
>>>> Regards.
>>>>
>>>> Boubakar
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 5:24 PM, Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Greetings All,
>>>>>
>>>>> I am looking at the BoD election process and it seems to me that the
>>>>> recent e-mail from the Board Chair seeking nominations for vacant seats
>>>>> should not be extended to Western Africa.
>>>>>
>>>>> The particular clause I am referring to is in 9.2 -
>>>>> https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    -
>>>>>    Elections will be closed as soon as the last member or proxy
>>>>>    present in the meeting room casts his/her vote. Candidates with the highest
>>>>>    number of votes in each category will be declared winners
>>>>>
>>>>> I see from the list for West Africa that the candidate with the
>>>>> highest number of votes should have been declared winner and this is Dr
>>>>> Ousmane Tessa.  (btw, Dr Adewale Adedokun needs his name spelt correctly)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Western Africa - Seat 2*
>>>>>
>>>>> Dr Adelawe Abedekon - 43
>>>>>
>>>>> Dr Ousmane Moussa Tessa - 56
>>>>>
>>>>> None of the above - 78
>>>>>
>>>>> *Result: The seat is vacant*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The results from the other regions are valid and supported by the
>>>>> following clause as they had one candidate.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>    - All open positions shall be subject to an election process even
>>>>>       if there is only one candidate. In that event, if the option [none of the
>>>>>       above] got more votes than the only candidate, then the seat shall be
>>>>>       considered vacant and the Board will be requested to apply provisions of
>>>>>       the Bylaws to temporarily fill the vacant seat.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Can AfriNIC and the nomcom please clarify?   We should not deprive Dr
>>>>> Tessa of a rightful win ?. especially in the circumstances we find
>>>>> ourselves.
>>>>>
>>>>> Omo
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>>>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>>>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Members-Discuss mailing listMembers-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>>
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
>
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From mje at posix.co.za  Wed May 30 18:13:21 2018
From: mje at posix.co.za (Mark Elkins)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2018 20:13:21 +0200
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <CAGDMR_dnXSu3T-i4DX3T0+jbWm-n=yzrddXYuHPf+tTd70X6zg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <CAGrBSSh8qc03+GzFLOzX-_6edVgiO1S4iUKeiYB3Yg-S43H+Rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <dd22da4f-9308-0e81-85d2-f50839f5ed8f@afrinic.net>
 <CAG1eoi2ARyHcs7b0BCjhpvMv3XZpRqMz6ubPm24cR7VDu4Nyqw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGDMR_cykPufKm1bg=hPFGedQ3LLFOHpGaB3Mj-0JNs4yjY=ZA@mail.gmail.com>
 <a917fef3-c575-91fa-be3e-6d11dd3cd523@afrinic.net>
 <CAGDMR_f-yYR6UxohpYL01aWWT2kyADDs22XK52h+u8Dmw-FOyw@mail.gmail.com>
 <DF492E41-15A4-4A83-82AA-E381A49BAE9E@delong.com>
 <CAGDMR_dnXSu3T-i4DX3T0+jbWm-n=yzrddXYuHPf+tTd70X6zg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c542107b-625b-c998-bcf5-6f1e191f3aa8@posix.co.za>



On 30/05/2018 19:20, Arnaud AMELINA wrote:
> Owen,?
>
> 2018-05-29 22:34 GMT+00:00 Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com
> <mailto:owen at delong.com>>:
>
>     Arnaud,
>
>     While I agree that additional clarity is needed and I agree that
>     there is some validity to the claim that none of the above MAY not
>     have been a legitimate choice to place on the ballot, I think we
>     cannot go changing the rules of the election and violating the
>     expectations of the voters, membership, and community after the
>     election has run.
>
>
> Voters, membership and community are saying: <<a mistake has been
> made; let's fix it!>>

And members are saying "We are happy with the outcome" (I am, anyway).
The only folk that should be commenting on this are the voting membership.

> ?
>
>
>     Nobody raised an objection to the presence of none of the above on
>     the ballot for seat 2 prior to or during the election.
>
>
> No one is raising objection even now on ?this option being on the
> ballot as the guidelines are clear on that. the issue at hand is the
> correct implementation ?of the guidelines as written.
> ?
>
>
>     Since there were more than enough voters who selected none of the
>     above to change the result among the remaining two candidates, it
>     is not legitimate to simply discard the none of the above votes
>     and declare one of those candidates a winner. Indeed, I would
>     argue that is the worst possible choice among all other options.
>
>     The other options as I see it are:
>
>     1.Allow the board to treat the seat as vacant and appoint a board
>     member until the
>     next AGMM.
>
>     2.Treat none of the above as a valid election result (in which
>     case it should be
>     considered the same for all 3 seats) and preclude the board from
>     appointing
>     anyone to the seat(s) until an election can be run.
>
>
>     3.Treat none of the above as a valid election result only for seat
>     2 and preclude
>     the board from appointing seat 2 while still allowing them to
>     appoint seats 5
>     and 6.
>
>     As I see it, the best option is option 1. It allows the
>     organization to proceed with a full board until the next AGMM
>     where a hopefully more effective election can be accomplished.
>
>     I think option 2 is bad because it leaves the board precariously
>     short-handed with only 5 of the expected 8 members, including the
>     CEO. (The 3 elected members which remain, whoever is appointed to
>     fill Haitham?s vacancy, and the CEO).
>
>     The problem I have with option 3 is I have trouble justifying
>     treating the election of ?none of the above? differently in this
>     circumstance than in the case of a single unopposed candidate. In
>     both cases, more voters felt that they didn?t want any of the
>     options on the ballot and voted not to elect any fo the
>     candidates. The outcome is, IMHO, the same regardless of the
>     number of candidates and should be handled identically.
>
>
> Why? There are places in the world where "none of the above" is on
> ballot and has not effect on the results

What would the point of that be then - or are people confusing "None of
the above" with "Abstain" ?

> and candidates with the highest votes wins. It is matter of the
> elections rules. In the current ?situation, ?the guidelines are clear
> ?and explicit ?on how we should ?handle the results. So let follow it
> and engage on discussions ?for amending the rules ?if we see need to
> do so.

I was on the Board when this was introduced (6 or so years back?). Its
doing exactly what it was intended to - that if a person does not like
*anyone* on the list of choices - the member can instead select "none of
the above". Why does this seem so hard to grasp? I also fail to
understand why this is fine when there is only one natural person on the
list but not fine when there is more than one natural person on the list.

> ?

>
>     Hopefully additional clarity can be achieved prior to the next
>     election and we won?t have to face this issue again. Personally, I
>     like the idea of having ?none of the above? as an option in all cases.
>
>
> Clarity and fairness is the outcome of the complaint regarding seat 2
> here imho; for the rest we can agree to disagree.

I agree to agree with Owen.

> ?
>
>
>     Owen
>
>
> Thanks
> ?
>
>
>>     On May 29, 2018, at 14:56 , Arnaud AMELINA <amelnaud at gmail.com
>>     <mailto:amelnaud at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     Dear Ashok as a lawyer you know that there is the law and spirit
>>     of the law, please read bellow ?
>>
>>     2018-05-25 11:18 GMT+00:00 Ashok <ashok at afrinic.net
>>     <mailto:ashok at afrinic.net>>:
>>
>>         Dear All,
>>         I apologize for having? missed your rejoinder to my mail.
>>
>>     ?
>>     Despite the delays, we appreciate your response as the matter is
>>     of great concern.
>>     ?
>>
>>         Your first question regards the reason as to why the same
>>         principle has been applied to the election for Seat 2
>>         notwithstanding the fact that there were two candidates.
>>         My response is that an election cannot be run on different
>>         principles. In this particular election the option "none of
>>         the above " was
>>         introduced for the first time and everyone was aware of this
>>         and it applied to all the elections held on that day. The
>>         Election guidelines were amended to acomodate this option.
>>
>>
>>     Yes indeed and the elections guidelines explicitely addressed the
>>     case of only a single candidate running for election and the
>>     option " none of the above" in this case got more votes than the
>>     sole candidate but is very silent in the case of multiple
>>     candidates running for elections with the option "none of the
>>     above" getting more votes.?
>>
>>     Anytime elections involve the option "none of the above", there
>>     are always clear rules on how the results are interpreted and the
>>     actions that must be taken when the option "none of the above"
>>     get more votes than the multiple candidates.?
>>
>>     It's not my intention to teach you something here, but it does
>>     look very bizarre that the legal counsel never bothered to help
>>     the board to make ?the guidelines unambiguous ?and conform to
>>     members expectations.
>>     ?
>>
>>         Consequently this option has to be taken in consideration
>>         when finalising the results.
>>         Where there were two candidates. The options for voters were
>>         (1) yes for candidate (1)-((2) yes for candidate 2-(3) yes
>>         for non of the above.Each one is mutually exclusive.
>>         Each score to be counted separately. The majority for either
>>         option wins the day.
>>
>>
>>     Following ?your reasoning above and the guidelines which say the
>>     candidate with the highest votes win, the members and community
>>     should then accept "none of the above" as the elected candidate
>>     and seated although "none of the above " did not go through
>>     Nomcom and was not listed on the candidates slates ?published by
>>     Nomcom.
>>
>>     Which means seat 2 should not be declared vacant to be filled by
>>     board.
>>
>>     Filling ?seat 2 by board would constitute the violation of "none
>>     ?of the above" rights and of our rules and thus expose us to
>>     legal litigation.
>>
>>     ?
>>
>>         One should not create a fictitious majority by adding votes
>>         polled by (1) & (2) together. The real majority was to all
>>         intents and purposes the option which polled the most votes.
>>         There is no need to extrapolate or interpret.
>>
>>
>>     There is No fictitious majority being created. It was just an
>>     example of how this case could have been interpreted just like
>>     you do have your own interpretation.?
>>
>>     In many cases, ?abstention is compared to voters in order to
>>     decide how to proceed with ?validating an election and counting
>>     results..
>>
>>     ?
>>
>>         Where there was one candidate there were two options- Yes for
>>         the single candidate or yes for? "non of the above"
>>
>>
>>     The case of a sole candidate is clear as per the guidelines and
>>     there are no objections on seat 5 and 6 results.
>>     ?
>>
>>         My reference to Art 10.2 was based on the decision of the
>>         members present at? past AGMMs to have the option of
>>         rejecting a single candidate or to give their approval to the
>>         single candidate, This has occurred more than once.
>>
>>
>>     And once again, ?the case of a single candidate is handled as
>>     members agreed to and not debated
>>
>>     Thank you
>>
>>     ?
>>
>>         Legal Counsel AFRINIC.
>>
>>
>>         On 24/05/2018 21:11, Arnaud AMELINA wrote:
>>>         Dear CEO and Chairman
>>>
>>>         It looks like the Legal counsel has not ?responded to this
>>>         query bellow ? regarding this very important issue about the
>>>         recently concluded elections.?
>>>
>>>         Could you kindly remind him? ?
>>>
>>>         Let us address this to a good conclusion in order to enforce
>>>         the respect of our rules and processes.
>>>
>>>         Regards?
>>>
>>>         Arnaud?
>>>
>>>         Le sam. 19 mai 2018 11:40, Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net
>>>         <mailto:Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>> a ?crit?:
>>>
>>>             Dear Legal Counsel,
>>>
>>>             Thanks for your input.? Much appreciated.?
>>>
>>>             Your statements reinforce the interpretation of section
>>>             9.2 of the guidelines with the origin of the "none of
>>>             the above" option in the election process and how votes
>>>             for this option are considered in the case of one
>>>             candidate running for election for a seat. [Last bullet
>>>             point]?
>>>
>>>             Case in which the election becomes a "yes" or "no"? vote
>>>             for the only candidate.? ?This point?is clear and
>>>             accepted and the objection is not for the results for
>>>             seat 5 and 6.
>>>
>>>             What has not been clarified is how the same principle
>>>             came to be applied for the elections for seat 2 which
>>>             had two candidates running for the seat, one of whom got
>>>             higher votes than the other, with the total number of
>>>             members casting votes in excess of those opting out.
>>>
>>>             You also?referred to art 10.2 of the constitution?but
>>>             did not elaborate on the precedence that occurred that
>>>             has become an integral?part of our?guidelines.? As
>>>             precedence automatically becomes part of the election
>>>             guidelines, it is important that we address issues which
>>>             come up around the election with care and unambiguously.?
>>>
>>>             Can you be so kind to clarify??
>>>
>>>             Best wishes
>>>             Omo
>>>
>>>             PS:? Grateful to listers to please keep?this thread
>>>             confined to the subject.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>             On 17 May 2018 at 17:17, Ashok <ashok at afrinic.net
>>>             <mailto:ashok at afrinic.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>>                 Dear Members and Community,
>>>                 Mt views have been sought on the matter under reference.
>>>                 Please find same hereunder.
>>>
>>>                 On 17/05/2018 14:04, B
>>>
>>>                 *_The Election Process and last AGMM._*
>>>
>>>                 The appointment of Directors is carried out during
>>>                 an AGMM of the Company ?Art 13.1 of the constitution.
>>>
>>>                 The election of the Directors is carried out in
>>>                 terms of Art 13.2 of the constitution which refers
>>>                 expressly to the election process approved by the Board.
>>>
>>>                 Moreover? Art 10.2 of the Constitution refers to
>>>                 precedent applied during an AFRINIC election and
>>>                 which de facto become part of the election guidelines.
>>>
>>>                 The election process? as it stands today is the one
>>>                 which was applied during? the elections held during
>>>                 the last AGMM without any opposition.
>>>
>>>                 This is what it provides:
>>>
>>>                 *9.2 Paper Ballot on Election Day*
>>>
>>>                 The voting conducted during the Annual General
>>>                 Members' Meeting is carried out via paper ballots
>>>                 containing a list of candidate names and a ballot
>>>                 number. Prior to the vote, all members present or
>>>                 participants holding a proxy will be requested to
>>>                 register and validate their membership status.
>>>
>>>                           + Voters should only vote for one
>>>                             candidate per category/region. Each mark
>>>                             on a ballot paper represents one vote. A
>>>                             ballot with more than one mark per
>>>                             category/region will be considered
>>>                             spoilt, and not be counted.
>>>                           + The ballot paper should provide voters
>>>                             with the option to not vote for any
>>>                             candidate (a.k.a. "None of the Above").
>>>                           + This will be a secret ballot election.
>>>                             An inclusion of any personal data on the
>>>                             ballot paper will invalidate the vote
>>>                             and will be counted as spoilt.
>>>                           + Elections will be closed as soon as the
>>>                             last member or proxy present in the
>>>                             meeting room casts his/her vote.
>>>                             Candidates with the highest number of
>>>                             votes in each category will be declared
>>>                             winners.
>>>                           + In the event of a tie for an open
>>>                             position, voting for that position will
>>>                             be repeated (Only by paper ballot) the
>>>                             same day until there is a winner.
>>>                           + All open positions shall be subject to
>>>                             an election process even if there is
>>>                             only one candidate. In that event, if
>>>                             the option [none of the above] got more
>>>                             votes than the only candidate, then the
>>>                             seat shall be considered vacant and the
>>>                             Board will be requestedto apply
>>>                             provisions of the Bylaws to temporarily
>>>                             fill the vacant seat
>>>
>>>                 The last amendment of the election guidelines
>>>                 introduced the voting option ? None of the Above?.
>>>                 ?(Vide second bullet point above.)Those voters who
>>>                 have cast their votes for ? None of the Above? have
>>>                 done so in compliance with the prevailing?
>>>                 constitution ?and these are thus valid votes. Every
>>>                 voter was aware of the new option.
>>>
>>>                 The election guidelines are clear as to what happens
>>>                 when the ? None of the Above? option has a
>>>                 majority.- (Vide last bullet point above.)
>>>
>>>                 The election guidelines must be read as a whole and
>>>                 all the provisions read together.
>>>
>>>                 Legal Counsel ?AFRINIC
>>>
>>>                 17.05.2018
>>>
>>>                 oubakar Barry wrote:
>>>>
>>>>                 Hello Board and Legal Counsel,
>>>>
>>>>                 Good that Omo spotted this.
>>>>
>>>>                 It?s a matter of applying the board election
>>>>                 process adopted by the board according to section
>>>>                 13.2 of the bylaws.
>>>>
>>>>                 https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process
>>>>                 <https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process>
>>>>                 describes the process and section 9 spells out how
>>>>                 to interpret the results in the case there are more
>>>>                 than one candidate and in the case there is only
>>>>                 one candidate. These two cases are addressed
>>>>                 separately and differently.
>>>>
>>>>                 It?s important to hear from the Board and the Legal
>>>>                 Counsel, as the elections can be challenged.
>>>>
>>>>                 Please advise.
>>>>
>>>>                 Regards.
>>>>
>>>>                 Boubakar
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 5:24 PM, Omo Oaiya
>>>>                 <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net
>>>>                 <mailto:Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>                     Greetings All,
>>>>
>>>>                     I am looking at the BoD election process and it
>>>>                     seems to me that the recent e-mail from the
>>>>                     Board Chair seeking nominations for vacant
>>>>                     seats should not be extended to Western Africa. ?
>>>>
>>>>                     The particular clause I am referring to is in
>>>>                     9.2
>>>>                     -?https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process
>>>>                     <https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process>
>>>>>
>>>>>                      *
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>                         Elections will be closed as soon as the
>>>>>                         last member or proxy present in the
>>>>>                         meeting room casts his/her vote.
>>>>>                         Candidates with the highest number of
>>>>>                         votes in each category will be declared
>>>>>                         winners
>>>>>
>>>>                     I see from the list for West Africa that the
>>>>                     candidate with the highest number of votes
>>>>                     should have been declared winner and this is Dr
>>>>                     Ousmane Tessa. ?(btw, Dr Adewale Adedokun needs
>>>>                     his name spelt correctly)
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>                     *Western Africa - Seat 2*
>>>>>
>>>>>                     Dr Adelawe Abedekon - 43
>>>>>
>>>>>                     Dr Ousmane Moussa Tessa - 56
>>>>>
>>>>>                     None of the above - 78
>>>>>
>>>>>                     /Result: The seat is vacant/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                     The results from the other regions are valid
>>>>                     and supported by the following clause as they
>>>>                     had one candidate.?
>>>>>
>>>>>                           o All open positions shall be subject to
>>>>>                             an election process even if there is
>>>>>                             only one candidate. In that event, if
>>>>>                             the option [none of the above] got
>>>>>                             more votes than the only candidate,
>>>>>                             then the seat shall be considered
>>>>>                             vacant and the Board will be requested
>>>>>                             to apply provisions of the Bylaws to
>>>>>                             temporarily fill the vacant seat.?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                     Can AfriNIC and the nomcom please clarify? ? We
>>>>                     should not deprive Dr Tessa of a rightful win
>>>>                     ?. especially in the circumstances we find
>>>>                     ourselves.
>>>>
>>>>                     Omo
>>>>
>>>>                     _______________________________________________
>>>>                     Community-Discuss mailing list
>>>>                     Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>>>>                     <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>>>>                     https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>>>                     <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>                 _______________________________________________
>>>>                 Members-Discuss mailing list
>>>>                 Members-Discuss at afrinic.net
>>>>                 <mailto:Members-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>>>>                 https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
>>>>                 <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss>
>>>
>>>
>>>             _______________________________________________
>>>             Community-Discuss mailing list
>>>             Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>>>             <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>>>             https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>>             <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
>>>
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     Community-Discuss mailing list
>>     Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>>     https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>     <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

-- 
Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
mje at posix.co.za       Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za

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From owen at delong.com  Wed May 30 18:57:11 2018
From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2018 11:57:11 -0700
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <c542107b-625b-c998-bcf5-6f1e191f3aa8@posix.co.za>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <CAGrBSSh8qc03+GzFLOzX-_6edVgiO1S4iUKeiYB3Yg-S43H+Rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <dd22da4f-9308-0e81-85d2-f50839f5ed8f@afrinic.net>
 <CAG1eoi2ARyHcs7b0BCjhpvMv3XZpRqMz6ubPm24cR7VDu4Nyqw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGDMR_cykPufKm1bg=hPFGedQ3LLFOHpGaB3Mj-0JNs4yjY=ZA@mail.gmail.com>
 <a917fef3-c575-91fa-be3e-6d11dd3cd523@afrinic.net>
 <CAGDMR_f-yYR6UxohpYL01aWWT2kyADDs22XK52h+u8Dmw-FOyw@mail.gmail.com>
 <DF492E41-15A4-4A83-82AA-E381A49BAE9E@delong.com>
 <CAGDMR_dnXSu3T-i4DX3T0+jbWm-n=yzrddXYuHPf+tTd70X6zg@mail.gmail.com>
 <c542107b-625b-c998-bcf5-6f1e191f3aa8@posix.co.za>
Message-ID: <8FFB3197-9112-4C8A-9E59-B91AF7E3A790@delong.com>



> On May 30, 2018, at 11:13 , Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 30/05/2018 19:20, Arnaud AMELINA wrote:
>> Owen, 
>> 
>> 2018-05-29 22:34 GMT+00:00 Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com <mailto:owen at delong.com>>:
>> Arnaud,
>> 
>> While I agree that additional clarity is needed and I agree that there is some validity to the claim that none of the above MAY not have been a legitimate choice to place on the ballot, I think we cannot go changing the rules of the election and violating the expectations of the voters, membership, and community after the election has run.
>> 
>> Voters, membership and community are saying: <<a mistake has been made; let's fix it!>>
> 
> And members are saying "We are happy with the outcome" (I am, anyway). The only folk that should be commenting on this are the voting membership.

To be clear, while I?m neither a voter nor a member, I am a member of the community. I?m saying:

1.	A mistake was made in the writing of unclear election guidelines.
2.	No mistake was made in the conduct of the election.
3.	Let?s fix it by amending the election guidelines to provide greater clarity
	in the future.

However, even if one accepts that a mistake was made in the conduct of the election, as you assert (I continue
to disagree, but let?s assume that is the case).

>> Nobody raised an objection to the presence of none of the above on the ballot for seat 2 prior to or during the election.
>> 
>> No one is raising objection even now on  this option being on the ballot as the guidelines are clear on that. the issue at hand is the correct implementation  of the guidelines as written.

So let me get this straight?

You?re arguing that it was appropriate for voters to have the choice of ?none of the above? even for seat 2, but, that
any voter which chose that option should then be disenfranchised by placing one of the other candidates in the board seat in spite of the fact that ?none of the above? won the election for seat 2?

Or are you arguing that neither of the candidates should be seated, but the board should not be allowed to fill the seat?

What is this correct implementation you are arguing for? I am lost as to what, exactly you want at this point.

>> Since there were more than enough voters who selected none of the above to change the result among the remaining two candidates, it is not legitimate to simply discard the none of the above votes and declare one of those candidates a winner. Indeed, I would argue that is the worst possible choice among all other options.
>> 
>> The other options as I see it are:
>> 
>> 	1.	Allow the board to treat the seat as vacant and appoint a board member until the
>> 		next AGMM.
>> 
>> 	2.	Treat none of the above as a valid election result (in which case it should be
>> 		considered the same for all 3 seats) and preclude the board from appointing
>> 		anyone to the seat(s) until an election can be run.
>> 
>> 
>> 	3.	Treat none of the above as a valid election result only for seat 2 and preclude
>> 		the board from appointing seat 2 while still allowing them to appoint seats 5
>> 		and 6.
>> 
>> As I see it, the best option is option 1. It allows the organization to proceed with a full board until the next AGMM where a hopefully more effective election can be accomplished.
>> 
>> I think option 2 is bad because it leaves the board precariously short-handed with only 5 of the expected 8 members, including the CEO. (The 3 elected members which remain, whoever is appointed to fill Haitham?s vacancy, and the CEO).
>> 
>> The problem I have with option 3 is I have trouble justifying treating the election of ?none of the above? differently in this circumstance than in the case of a single unopposed candidate. In both cases, more voters felt that they didn?t want any of the options on the ballot and voted not to elect any fo the candidates. The outcome is, IMHO, the same regardless of the number of candidates and should be handled identically.
>> 
>> Why? There are places in the world where "none of the above" is on ballot and has not effect on the results 
> 
> What would the point of that be then - or are people confusing "None of the above" with "Abstain? ?

Usually one abstains (on a written ballot) by simply not chosing any of the candidates. In some cases, there is a candidate selection for ?abstain?.

I?ve never seen an election where ?none of the above? was offered as a choice and treated as equivalent to abstaining.

A vote for ?none of the above? should be treated as an affirmative vote against all of the candidates on the slate. In the case where ?none of the above? gets more votes than any other candidate, no candidate from the slate should be considered eligible for the position in question.

> 
>> and candidates with the highest votes wins. It is matter of the elections rules. In the current  situation,  the guidelines are clear  and explicit  on how we should  handle the results. So let follow it and engage on discussions  for amending the rules  if we see need to do so.
> 
> I was on the Board when this was introduced (6 or so years back?). Its doing exactly what it was intended to - that if a person does not like *anyone* on the list of choices - the member can instead select "none of the above". Why does this seem so hard to grasp? I also fail to understand why this is fine when there is only one natural person on the list but not fine when there is more than one natural person on the list.

Agreed. The rules come close to saying this explicitly, but unfortunately, there is somewhat valid linguistic construction to claim that ?none of the above? isn?t a candidate and therefore? blah blah? 

It?s specious. It?s clearly outside the intent and spirit of the rules. It?s much ado about nothing if you ask me.

It clearly argues for clarifying the rules, but it really doesn?t strike me as a valid argument to alter the election result this late in the game.

>> Hopefully additional clarity can be achieved prior to the next election and we won?t have to face this issue again. Personally, I like the idea of having ?none of the above? as an option in all cases.
>> 
>> Clarity and fairness is the outcome of the complaint regarding seat 2 here imho; for the rest we can agree to disagree.

The only way to achieve fairness at this point, IMHO, is to accept that neither candidate can be seated as they both lost vs. ?none of the above?. The complaint here does not rise to the level of undoing the election which would clearly be unfair to the voters who voted ?none of the above? (which is a larger number of voters than those voting for either candidate).

If you want to argue that doing so is unfair to the candidate with the most votes, then fine, we?re being unfair to that number of voters. However, I think that?s a superior choice vs. being unfair to the majority of voters who selected either ?none of the above? combined with the unknown number of voters who would have selected ?none of the above? had the candidate with the least votes not been on the ballot.

> 
> I agree to agree with Owen.

Thanks, Mark.


Owen

> 
>>  
>> 
>> Owen
>> 
>> Thanks
>>  
>> 
>>> On May 29, 2018, at 14:56 , Arnaud AMELINA <amelnaud at gmail.com <mailto:amelnaud at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Dear Ashok as a lawyer you know that there is the law and spirit of the law, please read bellow  
>>> 
>>> 2018-05-25 11:18 GMT+00:00 Ashok <ashok at afrinic.net <mailto:ashok at afrinic.net>>:
>>> Dear All,
>>> I apologize for having  missed your rejoinder to my mail.
>>>  
>>> Despite the delays, we appreciate your response as the matter is of great concern.
>>>  
>>> Your first question regards the reason as to why the same principle has been applied to the election for Seat 2 
>>> notwithstanding the fact that there were two candidates.
>>> My response is that an election cannot be run on different principles. In this particular election the option "none of the above " was 
>>> introduced for the first time and everyone was aware of this and it applied to all the elections held on that day. The Election guidelines were amended to acomodate this option.
>>> 
>>> Yes indeed and the elections guidelines explicitely addressed the case of only a single candidate running for election and the option " none of the above" in this case got more votes than the sole candidate but is very silent in the case of multiple candidates running for elections with the option "none of the above" getting more votes. 
>>> 
>>> Anytime elections involve the option "none of the above", there are always clear rules on how the results are interpreted and the actions that must be taken when the option "none of the above" get more votes than the multiple candidates. 
>>> 
>>> It's not my intention to teach you something here, but it does look very bizarre that the legal counsel never bothered to help the board to make  the guidelines unambiguous  and conform to members expectations.
>>>  
>>> Consequently this option has to be taken in consideration when finalising the results.
>>> Where there were two candidates. The options for voters were (1) yes for candidate (1)-((2) yes for candidate 2-(3) yes for non of the above.Each one is mutually exclusive.
>>> Each score to be counted separately. The majority for either option wins the day.
>>> 
>>> Following  your reasoning above and the guidelines which say the candidate with the highest votes win, the members and community should then accept "none of the above" as the elected candidate and seated although "none of the above " did not go through Nomcom and was not listed on the candidates slates  published by Nomcom.
>>> 
>>> Which means seat 2 should not be declared vacant to be filled by board.
>>> 
>>> Filling  seat 2 by board would constitute the violation of "none  of the above" rights and of our rules and thus expose us to legal litigation.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> One should not create a fictitious majority by adding votes polled by (1) & (2) together. The real majority was to all intents and purposes the option which polled the most votes. There is no need to extrapolate or interpret. 
>>> 
>>> There is No fictitious majority being created. It was just an example of how this case could have been interpreted just like you do have your own interpretation. 
>>> 
>>> In many cases,  abstention is compared to voters in order to decide how to proceed with  validating an election and counting results..
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Where there was one candidate there were two options- Yes for the single candidate or yes for  "non of the above"
>>> 
>>> The case of a sole candidate is clear as per the guidelines and there are no objections on seat 5 and 6 results.
>>>  
>>> My reference to Art 10.2 was based on the decision of the members present at  past AGMMs to have the option of rejecting a single candidate or to give their approval to the single candidate, This has occurred more than once.
>>> 
>>> And once again,  the case of a single candidate is handled as members agreed to and not debated
>>> 
>>> Thank you
>>> 
>>>  
>>> Legal Counsel AFRINIC.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 24/05/2018 21:11, Arnaud AMELINA wrote:
>>>> Dear CEO and Chairman
>>>> 
>>>> It looks like the Legal counsel has not  responded to this query bellow   regarding this very important issue about the recently concluded elections. 
>>>> 
>>>> Could you kindly remind him?  
>>>> 
>>>> Let us address this to a good conclusion in order to enforce the respect of our rules and processes.
>>>> 
>>>> Regards 
>>>> 
>>>> Arnaud 
>>>> 
>>>> Le sam. 19 mai 2018 11:40, Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net <mailto:Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>> a ?crit :
>>>> Dear Legal Counsel,
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks for your input.  Much appreciated. 
>>>> 
>>>> Your statements reinforce the interpretation of section 9.2 of the guidelines with the origin of the "none of the above" option in the election process and how votes for this option are considered in the case of one candidate running for election for a seat. [Last bullet point] 
>>>> 
>>>> Case in which the election becomes a "yes" or "no"  vote for the only candidate.   This point is clear and accepted and the objection is not for the results for seat 5 and 6.
>>>> 
>>>> What has not been clarified is how the same principle came to be applied for the elections for seat 2 which had two candidates running for the seat, one of whom got higher votes than the other, with the total number of members casting votes in excess of those opting out.
>>>> 
>>>> You also referred to art 10.2 of the constitution but did not elaborate on the precedence that occurred that has become an integral part of our guidelines.  As precedence automatically becomes part of the election guidelines, it is important that we address issues which come up around the election with care and unambiguously. 
>>>> 
>>>> Can you be so kind to clarify? 
>>>> 
>>>> Best wishes
>>>> Omo
>>>> 
>>>> PS:  Grateful to listers to please keep this thread confined to the subject.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 17 May 2018 at 17:17, Ashok <ashok at afrinic.net <mailto:ashok at afrinic.net>> wrote:
>>>> Dear Members and Community,
>>>> Mt views have been sought on the matter under reference.
>>>> Please find same hereunder.
>>>> 
>>>> On 17/05/2018 14:04, B
>>>> The Election Process and last AGMM.
>>>> 
>>>> The appointment of Directors is carried out during an AGMM of the Company ?Art 13.1 of the constitution.
>>>> 
>>>> The election of the Directors is carried out in terms of Art 13.2 of the constitution which refers expressly to the election process approved by the Board.
>>>> 
>>>> Moreover  Art 10.2 of the Constitution refers to precedent applied during an AFRINIC election and which de facto become part of the election guidelines.
>>>> 
>>>> The election process  as it stands today is the one which was applied during  the elections held during the last AGMM without any opposition.
>>>> 
>>>> This is what it provides:
>>>> 
>>>> 9.2 Paper Ballot on Election Day
>>>> 
>>>> The voting conducted during the Annual General Members' Meeting is carried out via paper ballots containing a list of candidate names and a ballot number. Prior to the vote, all members present or participants holding a proxy will be requested to register and validate their membership status.
>>>> 
>>>> Voters should only vote for one candidate per category/region. Each mark on a ballot paper represents one vote. A ballot with more than one mark per category/region will be considered spoilt, and not be counted.
>>>> The ballot paper should provide voters with the option to not vote for any candidate (a.k.a. "None of the Above").
>>>> This will be a secret ballot election. An inclusion of any personal data on the ballot paper will                                                           invalidate the vote and will be counted as spoilt.
>>>> Elections will be closed as soon as the last member or proxy present in the meeting room casts his/her vote. Candidates with the highest number of votes in each category will be declared winners.
>>>> In the event of a tie for an open position, voting for that position will be repeated (Only by paper ballot) the same day until there is a winner.
>>>> All open positions shall be subject to an election process even if there is only one candidate. In that event, if the option [none of the above] got more votes than the only candidate, then the seat shall be considered vacant and the Board will be requested to apply provisions of the Bylaws to temporarily fill the vacant seat
>>>> The last amendment of the election guidelines introduced the voting option ? None of the Above?. ?(Vide second bullet point above.)Those voters who have cast their votes for ? None of the Above? have done so in compliance with the prevailing  constitution  and these are thus valid votes. Every voter was aware of the new option.
>>>> 
>>>> The election guidelines are clear as to what happens when the ? None of the Above? option has a majority.- (Vide last bullet point above.)
>>>> 
>>>> The election guidelines must be read as a whole and all the provisions read together.
>>>> 
>>>> Legal Counsel ?AFRINIC
>>>> 
>>>> 17.05.2018
>>>> 
>>>> oubakar Barry wrote:
>>>>> Hello Board and Legal Counsel,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Good that Omo spotted this.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It?s a matter of applying the board election process adopted by the board according to section 13.2 of the bylaws.
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process <https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process> describes the process and section 9 spells out how to interpret the results in the case there are more than one candidate and in the case there is only one candidate. These two cases are addressed separately and differently.
>>>>> 
>>>>> It?s important to hear from the Board and the Legal Counsel, as the elections can be challenged.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Please advise.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Boubakar
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 5:24 PM, Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net <mailto:Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>> wrote:
>>>>> Greetings All,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I am looking at the BoD election process and it seems to me that the recent e-mail from the Board Chair seeking                                                           nominations for vacant seats should not be extended to Western Africa.  
>>>>> 
>>>>> The particular clause I am referring to is in 9.2 - https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process <https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Elections will be closed as soon as the last member or proxy present in the meeting room casts his/her vote. Candidates with the highest number of votes in each category will be declared winners
>>>>> 
>>>>> I see from the list for West Africa that the candidate with the highest number of votes should have been declared winner and this is Dr Ousmane Tessa.  (btw, Dr Adewale Adedokun needs his name spelt correctly)
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Western Africa - Seat 2
>>>>>> Dr Adelawe Abedekon - 43
>>>>>> Dr Ousmane Moussa Tessa - 56
>>>>>> None of the above - 78
>>>>>> Result: The seat is vacant
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> The results from the other regions are valid and supported by the following clause as they had one candidate. 
>>>>>> All open positions shall be subject to an election process even if there is only one candidate. In that event, if the option [none of the above] got more votes than the only candidate, then the seat shall be considered vacant and the Board will be requested to apply provisions of the Bylaws to temporarily fill the vacant seat. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Can AfriNIC and the nomcom please clarify?   We should not deprive Dr Tessa of a rightful win ?. especially in the circumstances we find ourselves.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Omo
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>>>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>>>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>> Members-Discuss mailing list
>>>>> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Members-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>>>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
> 
> -- 
> Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
> mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>       Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za <https://ftth.posix.co.za/>
> _______________________________________________
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From amelnaud at gmail.com  Thu May 31 21:57:28 2018
From: amelnaud at gmail.com (Arnaud AMELINA)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2018 21:57:28 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Faulty result for Western
 Africa in AfriNIC AGMM Elections
In-Reply-To: <c542107b-625b-c998-bcf5-6f1e191f3aa8@posix.co.za>
References: <8CB594D3-E37E-4DE9-9978-ACA8E045B05F@wacren.net>
 <CAGrBSSh8qc03+GzFLOzX-_6edVgiO1S4iUKeiYB3Yg-S43H+Rg@mail.gmail.com>
 <dd22da4f-9308-0e81-85d2-f50839f5ed8f@afrinic.net>
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 <CAGDMR_cykPufKm1bg=hPFGedQ3LLFOHpGaB3Mj-0JNs4yjY=ZA@mail.gmail.com>
 <a917fef3-c575-91fa-be3e-6d11dd3cd523@afrinic.net>
 <CAGDMR_f-yYR6UxohpYL01aWWT2kyADDs22XK52h+u8Dmw-FOyw@mail.gmail.com>
 <DF492E41-15A4-4A83-82AA-E381A49BAE9E@delong.com>
 <CAGDMR_dnXSu3T-i4DX3T0+jbWm-n=yzrddXYuHPf+tTd70X6zg@mail.gmail.com>
 <c542107b-625b-c998-bcf5-6f1e191f3aa8@posix.co.za>
Message-ID: <CAGDMR_ettQjK4eBPRdErNjnsJAva233qZ1s_-CK7sb7pPCZw-Q@mail.gmail.com>

Mark

Le mer. 30 mai 2018 18:14, Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za> a ?crit :

>
> What would the point of that be then - or are people confusing "None of
> the above" with "Abstain" ?
>

It could  mean "abstain", "dislike the election" "none of the proposed
candidates suits me", etc...
 It is very important to explicitly  define what it means and how does it
affect the election validation and the results.

Arnaud

>
>
>
>
>
>> Hopefully additional clarity can be achieved prior to the next election
>> and we won?t have to face this issue again. Personally, I like the idea of
>> having ?none of the above? as an option in all cases.
>>
>
> Clarity and fairness is the outcome of the complaint regarding seat 2 here
> imho; for the rest we can agree to disagree.
>
>
>
>>
>> Owen
>>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>>
>> On May 29, 2018, at 14:56 , Arnaud AMELINA <amelnaud at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Ashok as a lawyer you know that there is the law and spirit of the
>> law, please read bellow
>>
>> 2018-05-25 11:18 GMT+00:00 Ashok <ashok at afrinic.net>:
>>
>>> Dear All,
>>> I apologize for having  missed your rejoinder to my mail.
>>>
>>
>> Despite the delays, we appreciate your response as the matter is of great
>> concern.
>>
>>
>>> Your first question regards the reason as to why the same principle has
>>> been applied to the election for Seat 2
>>> notwithstanding the fact that there were two candidates.
>>> My response is that an election cannot be run on different principles.
>>> In this particular election the option "none of the above " was
>>> introduced for the first time and everyone was aware of this and it
>>> applied to all the elections held on that day. The Election guidelines were
>>> amended to acomodate this option.
>>>
>>
>> Yes indeed and the elections guidelines explicitely addressed the case of
>> only a single candidate running for election and the option " none of the
>> above" in this case got more votes than the sole candidate but is very
>> silent in the case of multiple candidates running for elections with the
>> option "none of the above" getting more votes.
>>
>> Anytime elections involve the option "none of the above", there are
>> always clear rules on how the results are interpreted and the actions that
>> must be taken when the option "none of the above" get more votes than the
>> multiple candidates.
>>
>> It's not my intention to teach you something here, but it does look very
>> bizarre that the legal counsel never bothered to help the board to make
>>  the guidelines unambiguous  and conform to members expectations.
>>
>>
>>> Consequently this option has to be taken in consideration when
>>> finalising the results.
>>> Where there were two candidates. The options for voters were (1) yes for
>>> candidate (1)-((2) yes for candidate 2-(3) yes for non of the above.Each
>>> one is mutually exclusive.
>>> Each score to be counted separately. The majority for either option wins
>>> the day.
>>>
>>
>> Following  your reasoning above and the guidelines which say the
>> candidate with the highest votes win, the members and community should then
>> accept "none of the above" as the elected candidate and seated although
>> "none of the above " did not go through Nomcom and was not listed on the
>> candidates slates  published by Nomcom.
>>
>> Which means seat 2 should not be declared vacant to be filled by board.
>>
>> Filling  seat 2 by board would constitute the violation of "none  of the
>> above" rights and of our rules and thus expose us to legal litigation.
>>
>>
>>
>>> One should not create a fictitious majority by adding votes polled by
>>> (1) & (2) together. The real majority was to all intents and purposes the
>>> option which polled the most votes. There is no need to extrapolate or
>>> interpret.
>>>
>>
>> There is No fictitious majority being created. It was just an example of
>> how this case could have been interpreted just like you do have your own
>> interpretation.
>>
>> In many cases,  abstention is compared to voters in order to decide how
>> to proceed with  validating an election and counting results..
>>
>>
>>
>>> Where there was one candidate there were two options- Yes for the single
>>> candidate or yes for  "non of the above"
>>>
>>
>> The case of a sole candidate is clear as per the guidelines and there are
>> no objections on seat 5 and 6 results.
>>
>>
>>> My reference to Art 10.2 was based on the decision of the members
>>> present at  past AGMMs to have the option of rejecting a single candidate
>>> or to give their approval to the single candidate, This has occurred more
>>> than once.
>>>
>>
>> And once again,  the case of a single candidate is handled as members
>> agreed to and not debated
>>
>> Thank you
>>
>>
>>
>>> Legal Counsel AFRINIC.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 24/05/2018 21:11, Arnaud AMELINA wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear CEO and Chairman
>>>
>>> It looks like the Legal counsel has not  responded to this query bellow
>>>   regarding this very important issue about the recently concluded
>>> elections.
>>>
>>> Could you kindly remind him?
>>>
>>> Let us address this to a good conclusion in order to enforce the respect
>>> of our rules and processes.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Arnaud
>>>
>>> Le sam. 19 mai 2018 11:40, Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net> a ?crit :
>>>
>>>> Dear Legal Counsel,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your input.  Much appreciated.
>>>>
>>>> Your statements reinforce the interpretation of section 9.2 of the
>>>> guidelines with the origin of the "none of the above" option in the
>>>> election process and how votes for this option are considered in the case
>>>> of one candidate running for election for a seat. [Last bullet point]
>>>>
>>>> Case in which the election becomes a "yes" or "no"  vote for the only
>>>> candidate.   This point is clear and accepted and the objection is not for
>>>> the results for seat 5 and 6.
>>>>
>>>> What has not been clarified is how the same principle came to be
>>>> applied for the elections for seat 2 which had two candidates running for
>>>> the seat, one of whom got higher votes than the other, with the total
>>>> number of members casting votes in excess of those opting out.
>>>>
>>>> You also referred to art 10.2 of the constitution but did not elaborate
>>>> on the precedence that occurred that has become an integral part of
>>>> our guidelines.  As precedence automatically becomes part of the election
>>>> guidelines, it is important that we address issues which come up around the
>>>> election with care and unambiguously.
>>>>
>>>> Can you be so kind to clarify?
>>>>
>>>> Best wishes
>>>> Omo
>>>>
>>>> PS:  Grateful to listers to please keep this thread confined to the
>>>> subject.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 17 May 2018 at 17:17, Ashok <ashok at afrinic.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Members and Community,
>>>>> Mt views have been sought on the matter under reference.
>>>>> Please find same hereunder.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 17/05/2018 14:04, B
>>>>>
>>>>> *The Election Process and last AGMM.*
>>>>>
>>>>> The appointment of Directors is carried out during an AGMM of the
>>>>> Company ?Art 13.1 of the constitution.
>>>>>
>>>>> The election of the Directors is carried out in terms of Art 13.2 of
>>>>> the constitution which refers expressly to the election process approved by
>>>>> the Board.
>>>>>
>>>>> Moreover  Art 10.2 of the Constitution refers to precedent applied
>>>>> during an AFRINIC election and which de facto become part of the election
>>>>> guidelines.
>>>>>
>>>>> The election process  as it stands today is the one which was applied
>>>>> during  the elections held during the last AGMM without any
>>>>> opposition.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is what it provides:
>>>>>
>>>>> *9.2 Paper Ballot on Election Day*
>>>>>
>>>>> The voting conducted during the Annual General Members' Meeting is
>>>>> carried out via paper ballots containing a list of candidate names and a
>>>>> ballot number. Prior to the vote, all members present or participants
>>>>> holding a proxy will be requested to register and validate their membership
>>>>> status.
>>>>>
>>>>>    - Voters should only vote for one candidate per category/region.
>>>>>          Each mark on a ballot paper represents one vote. A ballot with more than
>>>>>          one mark per category/region will be considered spoilt, and not be counted.
>>>>>          - The ballot paper should provide voters with the option to
>>>>>          not vote for any candidate (a.k.a. "None of the Above").
>>>>>          - This will be a secret ballot election. An inclusion of any
>>>>>          personal data on the ballot paper will invalidate the vote and will be
>>>>>          counted as spoilt.
>>>>>          - Elections will be closed as soon as the last member or
>>>>>          proxy present in the meeting room casts his/her vote. Candidates with the
>>>>>          highest number of votes in each category will be declared winners.
>>>>>          - In the event of a tie for an open position, voting for
>>>>>          that position will be repeated (Only by paper ballot) the same day until
>>>>>          there is a winner.
>>>>>          - All open positions shall be subject to an election process
>>>>>          even if there is only one candidate. In that event, if the option [none of
>>>>>          the above] got more votes than the only candidate, then the seat shall be
>>>>>          considered vacant and the Board will be requested to apply
>>>>>          provisions of the Bylaws to temporarily fill the vacant seat
>>>>>
>>>>> The last amendment of the election guidelines introduced the voting
>>>>> option ? None of the Above?. ?(Vide second bullet point above.)Those voters
>>>>> who have cast their votes for ? None of the Above? have done so in
>>>>> compliance with the prevailing  constitution  and these are thus
>>>>> valid votes. Every voter was aware of the new option.
>>>>>
>>>>> The election guidelines are clear as to what happens when the ? None
>>>>> of the Above? option has a majority.- (Vide last bullet point above.)
>>>>>
>>>>> The election guidelines must be read as a whole and all the provisions
>>>>> read together.
>>>>>
>>>>> Legal Counsel ?AFRINIC
>>>>>
>>>>> 17.05.2018
>>>>> oubakar Barry wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello Board and Legal Counsel,
>>>>>
>>>>> Good that Omo spotted this.
>>>>>
>>>>> It?s a matter of applying the board election process adopted by the
>>>>> board according to section 13.2 of the bylaws.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process
>>>>> describes the process and section 9 spells out how to interpret the results
>>>>> in the case there are more than one candidate and in the case there is only
>>>>> one candidate. These two cases are addressed separately and differently.
>>>>>
>>>>> It?s important to hear from the Board and the Legal Counsel, as the
>>>>> elections can be challenged.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please advise.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards.
>>>>>
>>>>> Boubakar
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, May 16, 2018 at 5:24 PM, Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Greetings All,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am looking at the BoD election process and it seems to me that the
>>>>>> recent e-mail from the Board Chair seeking nominations for vacant seats
>>>>>> should not be extended to Western Africa.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The particular clause I am referring to is in 9.2 -
>>>>>> https://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    -
>>>>>>    Elections will be closed as soon as the last member or proxy
>>>>>>    present in the meeting room casts his/her vote. Candidates with the highest
>>>>>>    number of votes in each category will be declared winners
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I see from the list for West Africa that the candidate with the
>>>>>> highest number of votes should have been declared winner and this is Dr
>>>>>> Ousmane Tessa.  (btw, Dr Adewale Adedokun needs his name spelt correctly)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Western Africa - Seat 2*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dr Adelawe Abedekon - 43
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dr Ousmane Moussa Tessa - 56
>>>>>>
>>>>>> None of the above - 78
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Result: The seat is vacant*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The results from the other regions are valid and supported by the
>>>>>> following clause as they had one candidate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    - All open positions shall be subject to an election process even
>>>>>>       if there is only one candidate. In that event, if the option [none of the
>>>>>>       above] got more votes than the only candidate, then the seat shall be
>>>>>>       considered vacant and the Board will be requested to apply provisions of
>>>>>>       the Bylaws to temporarily fill the vacant seat.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can AfriNIC and the nomcom please clarify?   We should not deprive Dr
>>>>>> Tessa of a rightful win ?. especially in the circumstances we find
>>>>>> ourselves.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Omo
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>>>>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>>>>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Members-Discuss mailing listMembers-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
> --
> Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africamje at posix.co.za       Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
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