[Community-Discuss] Controversial anti-shutdown policy discussed at RIPE
Mark Elkins
mje at posix.co.za
Fri May 12 08:42:45 UTC 2017
The PDP allows anyone to submit any ideas and policies, irrespective of
who they are, where they are from, and what their ideas are, in a free
exchange of ideas and in the name of freedom of expression and freedom
of speech.
Some policies are pretty straight forward, make lots of sense and should
simply be implemented. they don't need lots of discussion - more along
the lines of - "why didn't I think and suggest that?".
Other policies are simply way out and should be still-born - such as the
PDP-BIS proposal, which destroys a number of the qualities of how the
PDP currently runs.
The "Internet Shutdown" policy has caused discussion around the world.
This is proof of the multi-stakeholder approach at work (its being
argued by multiple stakeholders, both for and against). The very fact
that this policy has engendered so much debate does not indicate a
problem with the policy, rather, it shows that the process works and is
resulting in debate and discussion that is both constructive and healthy.
On 12/05/2017 09:43, Arnaud AMELINA wrote:
> +1 Dear Mirriam and Badru
>
> Cela sera fixé par notre projet de politique PDP-BIS.
>
> This will be fixed by our PDP-BIS policy proposal.
>
> @Saul, je confirme que cette politique de shutdown est inopportune sur
> le PDP, c'est une véritable perte de temps, car d'autres politique
> ssont sur la table du PDP et personne n'a encore réagit par rapport à
> elles et on tourne autour d'une politique dont tout le monde sait
> qu'elle n'aboutira pas, et on nous avance comme argument le débat que
> ça va susciter, c'est comme si on se moque de notre communauté de
> techniciens. Nous ne sommes pas Politiciens, laissons cet aspect à
> ceux qui en ont la compétence, pour en débattre, et nous nous serons
> là en appui à leur décision. Dicsutons sur les choes qui feront
> avancer afrinic eet non celles qui lui créeront des problèmes. JE
> voudrais inviter tous les membres de cette communauté à se concentrer
> sur les vrais missions d'Afrinic et débatre de son avenir. Merci pour
> votre conmpréhension.
>
>
> @Saul, I confirm that this shutdown policy is inappropriate on the
> PDP, it is a real waste of time because other policies are on the PDP
> table and nobody has yet reacted with them and we turn Around to a
> policy that everyone knows will not succeed, and we are advanced as an
> argument the debate that will arouse, it is like we laugh at our
> community of technicians. We are not Politicians, we leave it to those
> who have the competence to debate it, and we will be there to support
> their decision. Let us discuss on things that will move AFRINIC
> forward instead of those that will create problems. I would like to
> invite all members of this community to focus on Afrinic's real
> missions and to discuss its future. Thank you for your understanding.
>
> Cordialement.
>
> Arnaud.
>
> 2017-05-12 7:10 GMT+00:00 Saul Stein <saul at enetworks.co.za
> <mailto:saul at enetworks.co.za>>:
>
> Hi,
>
>
>
> Please can you explain how this is an abuse of the RPD?
>
>
>
> We have a serious issue of internet shutdowns on our continent.
> The impact that it has on education, the economy etc is immeasurable!
>
> This should be of grace concern to all of us!
>
>
>
> The authors of the policy have stated numerous times that this is
> an evolving proposal.
>
>
>
> The important thing is that it is encouraging global debate on how
> to resolve this issue. THAT is what this proposal is about – ways
> to prevent this from happening.
>
>
>
> Whatever solutions we come up with – but that can only happen with
> this debate, so I don’t see how it’s a waist!
>
>
>
> Saul
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:*Mirriam [mailto:mirriamlauren at yahoo.com
> <mailto:mirriamlauren at yahoo.com>]
> *Sent:* 11 May 2017 08:24 PM
> *To:* Tutu Ngcaba <pan.afrikhan at gmail.com
> <mailto:pan.afrikhan at gmail.com>>; Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za
> <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>>
> *Cc:* General Discussions of AFRINIC
> <community-discuss at afrinic.net
> <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>; AfriNIC List
> <rpd at afrinic.net <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>>
> *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] Controversial anti-shutdown
> policy discussed at RIPE
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
>
>
> I totally agree with what Badru has stated and I really hope the
> PDP update policy proposal on the table before us can help to
> improve the Afrinic policy development process and environment
> notwithstanding quality of work so as to avoid such abuses of the pdp.
>
>
>
> KR,
>
> Mirriam
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, May 10, 2017, 1:41:29 PM GMT+3, Tutu Ngcaba
> <pan.afrikhan at gmail.com <mailto:pan.afrikhan at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Brother Elkins,
>
>
>
> The ICANN chairman Steve said some concern of internet shutdown
> will undermine the missions of Icann and the Afrinic and they two
> have the potential power to do something in return.
>
>
>
> The Afrinic Government Working Group AFGWG can work with the ICANN
> to achieve more mutlistakeholders talkings and meetings. This is
> what needs to be done in return.
>
> I ask the AFGWG to do some taking to the ICANN and they can meet
> our governments for education on economic important of Internet.
>
>
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Tutu Ngcaba
> Kwazulu Techno Hubs
> South Africa
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 10 May 2017 12:53 p.m., "Mark Elkins" <mje at posix.co.za
> <mailto:mje at posix.co.za>> wrote:
>
> I downloaded the complete video from RIPE and watched it a
> few times. I was also watching live.
>
> Its large - but if you can do, download it and watch it.
>
> https://ripe74.ripe.net/archiv e/video/Andrew_Alston-Anti-
> Shutdown_Policies_-_The_Ration ale-20170508-171822.mp4
> <https://ripe74.ripe.net/archive/video/Andrew_Alston-Anti-Shutdown_Policies_-_The_Rationale-20170508-171822.mp4>'
>
>
>
> Then again, when the Chairman of ICANN stands up and says that
> ICANN can help.
>
> "Hi, my name is Steve Crocker, I am Chairman of ICANN and I'm
> here to help you. (Regarding) take out of the root the
> affected ccTLD names" and he then volunteered assistance from
> ICANN staff - also saying it would take between two and five
> years to get to a decision whether to proceed or not.
>
> The current policy concept does not go that far - but to me -
> certainly suggests that the idea of punitive actions against
> governments is worth looking at.
>
> I regard it like a nuclear bomb. When in the hands of sane
> people (RIR's and ICANN), it is a threat - to persuade bad
> actors to have second thoughts against cutting people off from
> access to the Internet. If governments choose to cut people
> off from access to the Internet for political reasons, to me
> this is undermining the core mission of ICANN and the RIR's,
> both of whom have the potential power to do something in
> return. We need to enable that power from being simply a
> potential to being ready for use and hope its never needed to
> be used.
>
>
>
> On 10/05/2017 11:01, Noah wrote:
>
> Mmmm on the contrary seems like most folk on the floor
> disagreed with the contraversial policy and its approach
> no matter how much the Arthors seek for better ways to
> improve it.
>
>
>
> Some suggested multistake holder engagement and in
> particular Leslie Daigle comments on the floor are worth
> taking into serious considerations by the way.
>
>
>
> Leslie Daigle of ISOC agrees that there is a problem. She has
> concerns but sounded to me more would like to see something.
> She just doesn't want to see dialogue being undermined by this
> policy.
>
> Perhaps talk is not enough?
>
>
>
>
> The best comment in my opinion was from the Alan Durand
> who reminded everyone what the real core mission of the
> RIR community is, and that is....
>
>
>
> I'd say he was more worried about the policy being used for
> much more than it is currently intended for. (referenced to
> the colour of people's hair as a reason to cut them off the
> Internet).
>
>
> "To allocate resources and maintain the accuracy of the
> database".PERIOD. [1]
>
>
>
> Noah
>
>
>
> [1]I have had in the past folk state statements like "How
> some ome runs his network is none of anyones business and
> in that matter policing the network is none of AFRINICs
> business"
>
>
>
> On 10 May 2017 10:39 a.m., "Andrew Alston"
> <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.c om
> <mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
>
> Thanks Marcus,
>
>
>
> Just some feedback for the community.
>
>
>
> It's been a great experience here at RIPE and some of
> the ideas given and the extensive discussions
> following the presentation referred to by Marcus have
> been both useful and informative.
>
>
>
> Draft 2 will be submitted shortly very much in line
> with what I presented in that presentation - and
> before the 7 day deadline as per the PDP so we can
> discuss on that basis.
>
>
>
> Following the meeting in Nairobi, I suspect we will
> then be gathering still further input and further
> drafts will follow, if there is no consensus found on
> the floor for the draft 2 that will be submitted.
>
>
>
> I think for myself, the most important thing I have
> seen at RIPE so far, is the huge willingness by people
> from every walk of life to engage in dialog and
> discussion over this, and it was heartening to see
> both my own positions and the positions of those I was
> discussing with shift as explanations were given and
> questions were asked and answered. Since giving that
> presentation I have barely had a minute to think as
> people approached me to talk this through - and I
> really hope to see such engagement in Nairobi, because
> it truly showed the benefit of a multi stakeholder
> approach where open dialog and communication can
> happen, even in the absence of agreement and in the
> face of controversial material where people hold
> strong and emotive views.
>
>
>
> I look forward to the discussions on the floor of the
> PDP and engaging with all of you to hear your thoughts
> and views and finding the right solution to the issue.
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From:*Marcus K. G. Adomey <madomey at hotmail.com
> <mailto:madomey at hotmail.com>>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 9, 2017 11:48:42 PM
> *To:* rpd at afrinic.net <mailto:rpd at afrinic.net>;
> community-discuss at afrinic.net
> <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> *Subject:* [Community-Discuss] Controversial
> anti-shutdown policy discussed at RIPE
>
>
>
> Dear Colleagues.
>
>
>
> You might want to see the presentation of the
> controversial draft anti-shutdown policy
> (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01) at a recent RIPE
> meeting. I found the questions/comments from the RIPE
> community similar to that shared by many on the RPD,
> mostly about the inappropriateness of such policy in
> our region… or any other for that matter. Enjoy
> watching it.
>
>
>
> https://ripe74.ripe.net/archiv es/video/41/
> <https://ripe74.ripe.net/archives/video/41/>
>
> <https://ripe74.ripe.net/archives/video/41/>
>
>
>
> Archives – RIPE 74
> <https://ripe74.ripe.net/archives/video/41/>
>
> ripe74.ripe.net <http://ripe74.ripe.net>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
>
>
> Marcus
>
>
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>
> --
>
> Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa
>
> mje at posix.co.za <mailto:mje at posix.co.za> Tel: +27.128070590 <tel:+27%2012%20807%200590> Cell: +27.826010496 <tel:+27%2082%20601%200496>
>
> For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
>
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--
Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa
mje at posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
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