From madhvi at afrinic.net Mon Apr 3 11:55:22 2017 From: madhvi at afrinic.net (Madhvi Gokool) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 15:55:22 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: [AFRINIC-Announce] AFRINIC Enters IPv4 Exhaustion Phase 1 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <82e2566d-41b5-1b87-b06c-7790335b2cd9@afrinic.net> Dear List Members, AFRINIC has entered into Phase 1 of the soft landing policy. The official communique can be viewed at the URL below:- http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/2053-afrinic-enters-ipv4-exhaustion-phase-1 Kind Regards Madhvi Gokool Registration Services Manager From seun.ojedeji at gmail.com Thu Apr 13 09:21:20 2017 From: seun.ojedeji at gmail.com (Seun Ojedeji) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 10:21:20 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC? Message-ID: Dear Community, Tutu raises a critical point and I also strongly agree that we should let this discussion live on. AFRINIC sure presently have provided various avenues to engage government and as i think there seem to be a slow but steady improvement in govt participation. I wonder how AFRINIC can futher leverage on this to drive down the point about why government needs to stop considering a shutdown of internet or certain service as an option. May be good to hear from staff how participation of the AFGWG has been so far - especially to try to identify challenges to participation and how to resolve them. One other thing that comes to mind is whether AFRINIC can be pro-active instead of re-active i.e they are made aware of the planned act and issue strong statement against it hoping that it will get to the ears of relevant authorities and get them to reconsider. This may also be effective if the relationship between AFRINIC and the AU (and regional bodies like ECOWAS, EAC, COMESA etc) is strengthened as that can serve as a channel of communication to the respective governments. That said, I will like to pause on the role of AFRINIC as it also seem to me that the role of ISPs is quite critical in this. Traffic distribution structure/topology varies by countries hence there is some level of dependencies that would exist and I wonder if ISPs can leverage upon that as well. Also there are situations where government would ask for shutdown of certain services of the internet(like social media) so connectivity still exist to reduce the outcry, perhaps in those cases, ISPs could also make it clear that its either a total shutdown or nothing and then hope that the country's community/citizens will notice and be loud enough to get government to change their order. Just a few ideas i thought I should throw in here since we seem to have an understanding as a community that an RIR policy cannot be a way to address this very important issue. Regards On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 9:31 AM, Tutu Ngcaba wrote: > Dear the Afrinic Ltd, > > Since you put out a statement a few days ago condemning internet shutdown > problem which is a serious issue. > > Can you please take this issue up and drive it. I request that the Afrinic > shall and should make this as an angenda topic also in meetings to come. > > We should also involve all isoc chapters in all our countries. > > We can discuss the internet shutdown under the Africann and community > mailing list and engage all members but not through policy. > > This will make the statement the Afrinic made as about shutdown as the > main agenda and even we use avenues like the Afrinic AFGWG. > > Multistake holder meeting is also important for engaging our governements. > > So i believe we can all take this discussion to community and Africann > mailing list and the Afrinic can engage the people. > > This way we can get all concerned african people together and find wiser > ways of engaging our governments. > > Most African country economy depend on agriculture and not Internet. So > internet is nothing to governments when they chose to shutdown temporaly > since to them shutdown has only small term economic impact that is why some > do it in most cases to contain chaos or riots. > > Let us keep in mind that some countries presidents are in power for so > many years and the government can do anything. > > So simple questions like why do some governments do it are important. > > Awareness and education is more important not policy. > > Best Regards, > > Tutu Ngcaba > Kwazulu Techno Hubs > South Africa > > > _______________________________________________ > RPD mailing list > RPD at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd > > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Seun Ojedeji,Federal University Oye-Ekitiweb: http://www.fuoye.edu.ng Mobile: +2348035233535**alt email: seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng * Bringing another down does not take you up - think about your action! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Thu Apr 13 11:11:00 2017 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 14:11:00 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Seun, Indeed Tutu has raise some great pointers and in addition to your centiments, i am of the view this kind of approach is more fruitful ref: internet shutdowns and censorship. I suppose AFRINIC has been in the past engaging governments through the AFGWG and i would be keep to get some insights from AFRINIC regarding the same. Meanwhile, could AFRINIC organise a BoF during the upcoming meeting where all those who will be on the ground can discuss some of these pertinent issues openly. We could have a panel discussion and discuss this issue way better. AFRINIC could also invite some of the government officials and other internet leaders to this kind of BoF. I believe a BoF is one way for AFRINIC to be proactive in engaging the wider community. Also we could get folk from countries where the internet has ever been disconnected including cameroon to share more ideas on how to approach this issue. Noah On 13 Apr 2017 12:24 p.m., "Seun Ojedeji" wrote: Dear Community, Tutu raises a critical point and I also strongly agree that we should let this discussion live on. AFRINIC sure presently have provided various avenues to engage government and as i think there seem to be a slow but steady improvement in govt participation. I wonder how AFRINIC can futher leverage on this to drive down the point about why government needs to stop considering a shutdown of internet or certain service as an option. May be good to hear from staff how participation of the AFGWG has been so far - especially to try to identify challenges to participation and how to resolve them. One other thing that comes to mind is whether AFRINIC can be pro-active instead of re-active i.e they are made aware of the planned act and issue strong statement against it hoping that it will get to the ears of relevant authorities and get them to reconsider. This may also be effective if the relationship between AFRINIC and the AU (and regional bodies like ECOWAS, EAC, COMESA etc) is strengthened as that can serve as a channel of communication to the respective governments. That said, I will like to pause on the role of AFRINIC as it also seem to me that the role of ISPs is quite critical in this. Traffic distribution structure/topology varies by countries hence there is some level of dependencies that would exist and I wonder if ISPs can leverage upon that as well. Also there are situations where government would ask for shutdown of certain services of the internet(like social media) so connectivity still exist to reduce the outcry, perhaps in those cases, ISPs could also make it clear that its either a total shutdown or nothing and then hope that the country's community/citizens will notice and be loud enough to get government to change their order. Just a few ideas i thought I should throw in here since we seem to have an understanding as a community that an RIR policy cannot be a way to address this very important issue. Regards On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 9:31 AM, Tutu Ngcaba wrote: > Dear the Afrinic Ltd, > > Since you put out a statement a few days ago condemning internet shutdown > problem which is a serious issue. > > Can you please take this issue up and drive it. I request that the Afrinic > shall and should make this as an angenda topic also in meetings to come. > > We should also involve all isoc chapters in all our countries. > > We can discuss the internet shutdown under the Africann and community > mailing list and engage all members but not through policy. > > This will make the statement the Afrinic made as about shutdown as the > main agenda and even we use avenues like the Afrinic AFGWG. > > Multistake holder meeting is also important for engaging our governements. > > So i believe we can all take this discussion to community and Africann > mailing list and the Afrinic can engage the people. > > This way we can get all concerned african people together and find wiser > ways of engaging our governments. > > Most African country economy depend on agriculture and not Internet. So > internet is nothing to governments when they chose to shutdown temporaly > since to them shutdown has only small term economic impact that is why some > do it in most cases to contain chaos or riots. > > Let us keep in mind that some countries presidents are in power for so > many years and the government can do anything. > > So simple questions like why do some governments do it are important. > > Awareness and education is more important not policy. > > Best Regards, > > Tutu Ngcaba > Kwazulu Techno Hubs > South Africa > > > _______________________________________________ > RPD mailing list > RPD at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd > > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Seun Ojedeji,Federal University Oye-Ekitiweb: http://www.fuoye.edu.ng Mobile: +2348035233535**alt email: seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng * Bringing another down does not take you up - think about your action! _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net Thu Apr 13 11:18:30 2017 From: Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net (Omo Oaiya) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 12:18:30 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9E1E8054-8863-4A9A-BE89-8F838025CC98@wacren.net> +1. A practical approach that could yield good results. Last thing we want Afrinic to do is to complicate the situation with empty rhetoric and make an already bad situation worse. Omo > On 13 Apr 2017, at 12:11, Noah wrote: > > Hi Seun, > > Indeed Tutu has raise some great pointers and in addition to your centiments, i am of the view this kind of approach is more fruitful ref: internet shutdowns and censorship. > > I suppose AFRINIC has been in the past engaging governments through the AFGWG and i would be keep to get some insights from AFRINIC regarding the same. > > Meanwhile, could AFRINIC organise a BoF during the upcoming meeting where all those who will be on the ground can discuss some of these pertinent issues openly. We could have a panel discussion and discuss this issue way better. > > AFRINIC could also invite some of the government officials and other internet leaders to this kind of BoF. > > I believe a BoF is one way for AFRINIC to be proactive in engaging the wider community. > > Also we could get folk from countries where the internet has ever been disconnected including cameroon to share more ideas on how to approach this issue. > > Noah > > > On 13 Apr 2017 12:24 p.m., "Seun Ojedeji" > wrote: > > > Dear Community, > > Tutu raises a critical point and I also strongly agree that we should let this discussion live on. > > AFRINIC sure presently have provided various avenues to engage government and as i think there seem to be a slow but steady improvement in govt participation. I wonder how AFRINIC can futher leverage on this to drive down the point about why government needs to stop considering a shutdown of internet or certain service as an option. May be good to hear from staff how participation of the AFGWG has been so far - especially to try to identify challenges to participation and how to resolve them. > > One other thing that comes to mind is whether AFRINIC can be pro-active instead of re-active i.e they are made aware of the planned act and issue strong statement against it hoping that it will get to the ears of relevant authorities and get them to reconsider. This may also be effective if the relationship between AFRINIC and the AU (and regional bodies like ECOWAS, EAC, COMESA etc) is strengthened as that can serve as a channel of communication to the respective governments. > > That said, I will like to pause on the role of AFRINIC as it also seem to me that the role of ISPs is quite critical in this. Traffic distribution structure/topology varies by countries hence there is some level of dependencies that would exist and I wonder if ISPs can leverage upon that as well. Also there are situations where government would ask for shutdown of certain services of the internet(like social media) so connectivity still exist to reduce the outcry, perhaps in those cases, ISPs could also make it clear that its either a total shutdown or nothing and then hope that the country's community/citizens will notice and be loud enough to get government to change their order. > > Just a few ideas i thought I should throw in here since we seem to have an understanding as a community that an RIR policy cannot be a way to address this very important issue. > > Regards > On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 9:31 AM, Tutu Ngcaba > wrote: > Dear the Afrinic Ltd, > > Since you put out a statement a few days ago condemning internet shutdown problem which is a serious issue. > > Can you please take this issue up and drive it. I request that the Afrinic shall and should make this as an angenda topic also in meetings to come. > > We should also involve all isoc chapters in all our countries. > > We can discuss the internet shutdown under the Africann and community mailing list and engage all members but not through policy. > > This will make the statement the Afrinic made as about shutdown as the main agenda and even we use avenues like the Afrinic AFGWG. > > Multistake holder meeting is also important for engaging our governements. > > So i believe we can all take this discussion to community and Africann mailing list and the Afrinic can engage the people. > > This way we can get all concerned african people together and find wiser ways of engaging our governments. > > Most African country economy depend on agriculture and not Internet. So internet is nothing to governments when they chose to shutdown temporaly since to them shutdown has only small term economic impact that is why some do it in most cases to contain chaos or riots. > > Let us keep in mind that some countries presidents are in power for so many years and the government can do anything. > > So simple questions like why do some governments do it are important. > > Awareness and education is more important not policy. > > Best Regards, > > Tutu Ngcaba > Kwazulu Techno Hubs > South Africa > > > _______________________________________________ > RPD mailing list > RPD at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd > > > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Seun Ojedeji, > Federal University Oye-Ekiti > web: http://www.fuoye.edu.ng > Mobile: +2348035233535 <> > alt email: seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng > > Bringing another down does not take you up - think about your action! > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss ? Omo Oaiya CTO/Directeur Technique, WACREN Mobile: +234 806 4522778, +221 784 305 224 Skype: kodion http://www.wacren.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christian.bope at unikin.ac.cd Thu Apr 13 11:18:46 2017 From: christian.bope at unikin.ac.cd (Christian Bope) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 19:18:46 +0800 Subject: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 13 Apr 2017 6:12 a.m., "Noah" wrote: Hi Seun, Indeed Tutu has raise some great pointers and in addition to your centiments, i am of the view this kind of approach is more fruitful ref: internet shutdowns and censorship. ++1 I suppose AFRINIC has been in the past engaging governments through the AFGWG and i would be keep to get some insights from AFRINIC regarding the same. +1 Meanwhile, could AFRINIC organise a BoF during the upcoming meeting where all those who will be on the ground can discuss some of these pertinent issues openly. We could have a panel discussion and discuss this issue way better. +1 AFRINIC could also invite some of the government officials and other internet leaders to this kind of BoF. +1 I believe a BoF is one way for AFRINIC to be proactive in engaging the wider community. Also we could get folk from countries where the internet has ever been disconnected including cameroon to share more ideas on how to approach this issue. Noah On 13 Apr 2017 12:24 p.m., "Seun Ojedeji" wrote: Dear Community, Tutu raises a critical point and I also strongly agree that we should let this discussion live on. AFRINIC sure presently have provided various avenues to engage government and as i think there seem to be a slow but steady improvement in govt participation. I wonder how AFRINIC can futher leverage on this to drive down the point about why government needs to stop considering a shutdown of internet or certain service as an option. May be good to hear from staff how participation of the AFGWG has been so far - especially to try to identify challenges to participation and how to resolve them. One other thing that comes to mind is whether AFRINIC can be pro-active instead of re-active i.e they are made aware of the planned act and issue strong statement against it hoping that it will get to the ears of relevant authorities and get them to reconsider. This may also be effective if the relationship between AFRINIC and the AU (and regional bodies like ECOWAS, EAC, COMESA etc) is strengthened as that can serve as a channel of communication to the respective governments. That said, I will like to pause on the role of AFRINIC as it also seem to me that the role of ISPs is quite critical in this. Traffic distribution structure/topology varies by countries hence there is some level of dependencies that would exist and I wonder if ISPs can leverage upon that as well. Also there are situations where government would ask for shutdown of certain services of the internet(like social media) so connectivity still exist to reduce the outcry, perhaps in those cases, ISPs could also make it clear that its either a total shutdown or nothing and then hope that the country's community/citizens will notice and be loud enough to get government to change their order. Just a few ideas i thought I should throw in here since we seem to have an understanding as a community that an RIR policy cannot be a way to address this very important issue. Regards On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 9:31 AM, Tutu Ngcaba wrote: > Dear the Afrinic Ltd, > > Since you put out a statement a few days ago condemning internet shutdown > problem which is a serious issue. > > Can you please take this issue up and drive it. I request that the Afrinic > shall and should make this as an angenda topic also in meetings to come. > > We should also involve all isoc chapters in all our countries. > > We can discuss the internet shutdown under the Africann and community > mailing list and engage all members but not through policy. > > This will make the statement the Afrinic made as about shutdown as the > main agenda and even we use avenues like the Afrinic AFGWG. > > Multistake holder meeting is also important for engaging our governements. > > So i believe we can all take this discussion to community and Africann > mailing list and the Afrinic can engage the people. > > This way we can get all concerned african people together and find wiser > ways of engaging our governments. > > Most African country economy depend on agriculture and not Internet. So > internet is nothing to governments when they chose to shutdown temporaly > since to them shutdown has only small term economic impact that is why some > do it in most cases to contain chaos or riots. > > Let us keep in mind that some countries presidents are in power for so > many years and the government can do anything. > > So simple questions like why do some governments do it are important. > > Awareness and education is more important not policy. > > Best Regards, > > Tutu Ngcaba > Kwazulu Techno Hubs > South Africa > > > _______________________________________________ > RPD mailing list > RPD at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd > > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Seun Ojedeji,Federal University Oye-Ekitiweb: http://www.fuoye.edu.ng Mobile: +2348035233535**alt email: seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng * Bringing another down does not take you up - think about your action! _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amelnaud at gmail.com Thu Apr 13 12:26:20 2017 From: amelnaud at gmail.com (Arnaud AMELINA) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 12:26:20 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Who is the guarantor of AFRINIC Message-ID: *English :* Dear member of the community, What is the aim of the authors and the initiators of this Article ??? Do they have the right to share a process that has not yet been adopted externally, still coming from a member of the Board of Afrinic, is unacceptable, is there no longer any limit In AFRINIC, that the different leaders take their respononsibilities and remind to the order the indelices The name AFRINIC has been engaged in this article, even though the subject in question has not yet ratified by the community of AFRINIC or the BOARD. *French :* Chers membre de la communaut?, Quel est le but vis? par les auteurs et les initiateurs de cet Article ??? Ont-il le droit de faire part d'un processus non encore adopt? ? l'ext?rieur, venant encore de la part d'un membre du Board d'Afrinic c'est innacceptable, n'y a-t-il plus de limite ? AFRINIC, que les diff?rents responsables prennent leurs respponsabilit?s et rappellent ? l'odre les ind?licats. Le nom d'AFRINIC a ?t? engag? dans cet article alors m?me que le sujet en question ne soit ratifi? par la communaut? d'AFRINIC ou par le BOARD. [image: Twitter] [image: Facebook] [image: G+] [image: LinkedIn] [image: Home] Data Centre Software Security Transformation DevOps Business Personal Tech Science Emergent Tech Bootnotes [image: search] Data Centre [image: Arrow] Networks No more IP addresses for countries that shut down internet access Afrinic considers punitive policy for errant governments [image: reddit] [image: Twitter] [image: Facebook] [image: linkedin] 12 Apr 2017 at 19:54, Kieren McCarthy Governments that cut off internet access to their citizens could find themselves refused new IP addresses under a proposal put forward by one of the five global IP allocation organizations. The suggested clampdown will be considered at the next meeting of internet registry Afrinic in Botswana in June: Afrinic is in charge of managing and allocating IP address blocks across Africa. Under the proposal, a new section would be added to Afrinic's official rules that would allow the organization to refuse to hand over any new IP address to a country for 12 months if it is found to have ordered an internet shutdown. The ban would cover all government-owned entities and others that have a "direct provable relationship with said government." It would also cover any transfer of address space to those entities from others. That withdrawal of services would escalate if the country continued to pull the plug on internet access. Under the proposal: "In the event of a government performing three or more such shutdowns in a period of 10 years ? all resources to the aforementioned entities shall be revoked and no allocations to said entities shall occur for a period of 5 years." The proposal was sparked by a recent increase in the number of complete nationwide shutdowns of internet service ? something that has been a cause of increasing concern and ire within the internet infrastructure community. The start The trend started during the Egyptian revolution back in 2011 when authorities killed the entire's country web access prior to a big protest march. Employees of ISPs and mobile phone companies reported troops turning up at their homes and pointing guns at their families in order to enforce the shutdown. Until then, many governments had assumed it was largely impossible to turn off internet access to their entire nation. Soon after, government departments educated themselves about AS numbers and internet routing and started using their power to set up systems that would allow them to order the shutdown of all networks from a central point. While some countries only used this ability in the more dire circumstances ? riots or terrorist attacks ? shutdowns quickly started being used preemptively and for political reasons. Bangladesh switched off its entire country's net connectivity prior to the sentencing of former government leaders for war crimes. Then Iraq started shutting down the entire country for several hours at a time in order to prevent exam cheating . While these were enormously frustrating, the shutdown typically lasted only a few hours. But then Cameroon decided to cut off the internet for weeks ? and targeted specific communities. The country's southwest and northwest provinces were taken offline following violent protests: a decision that had a hugely damaging impact on its "Silicon Mountain" startup zone, and also took down its banks and ATMs. In India, the number and frequency of internet shutdowns has sparked a new protest movement and website that tracks them. The situation has grown so dire that the United Nations got involved and officially condemned the practice at a meeting of the Human Rights Council back in July. Despite opposition from a number of countries ? including China, Russia, India and Kenya ? a resolution passed forbidding mass web blockades. Plan The reality, however, is that there is nothing to prevent governments from shutting down the internet and very little anyone can do in the face of a determined push from the authorities. But now the techies are fighting back. The Afrinic proposal has been put forward by the CTO and the Head of IP strategy for Liquid Telecommunications ? a large pan-African ISP ? as well as the CEO of Kenya's main ISP Association. As such it is a proposal that many are taking seriously. "While the authors of this policy acknowledge that what is proposed is draconian in nature, we feel that the time has come for action to be taken, rather than just bland statements that have shown to have little or no effect," they wrote, noting that "over the last few years we have seen more and more governments shutting down the free and open access to the internet in order to push political and other agendas." Whether governments like it or not, they are reliant on the provision of IP address to expand their networks and digital economy, and Afrinic is the only organization that can realistically provide them. If the policy does get passed, it would almost certainly act as a strong deterrent for government ministers to shutting down internet access. But there are a wealth of problems with the idea, not least of which would be the determination of what represents an internet shutdown. The authors put forward a suggested definition: An internet shutdown is deemed to have occurred when it can be proved that there was an attempt, failed or successful, to restrict access to the internet to a segment of the population irrespective of the provider or access medium that they utilize. That wording is likely to be very heavily scrutinized. And it would require someone or group to make a determination that it has happened ? which would likely become a politically charged decision. And none of that considers the fact that national leaders are unlikely to accept punitive terms being placed against them by a third party. In short, it is a huge political headache. But it may also be one that only the internet community is capable to taking on and winning. The next few months will see whether the 'net community in Africa is willing to take on the challenge for the greater good. ? Sponsored: Continuous lifecycle London 2017 event. DevOps, continuous delivery and containerisation. Register now -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christianbope at gmail.com Thu Apr 13 12:31:06 2017 From: christianbope at gmail.com (Bope Domilongo Christian) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 20:31:06 +0800 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)" In-Reply-To: References: <393565252.1179794.1491935741365.JavaMail.zimbra@ntc.gov.sd> <1524223421.1179814.1491936208065.JavaMail.zimbra@ntc.gov.sd> <6.2.5.6.2.20170411143235.0c802c28@elandnews.com> <982F53B7-987E-4B4B-A5A2-891E05706135@afrinic.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20170412121702.0e02d160@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20170412130450.0d855d90@elandnews.com> <5E251079-7184-4A9D-9572-C628509DB5D8@gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear all, I have been following this policy discussion passionately. I do understand the need of keeping Internet up all the time knowing it's importance for economies, educations, developpement and other. We should engage countries using different channels such AFGWG, AU and other multistakeholder in our community. What this policy is trying to solve is not in AfriNIC mandate or might potentially serve personal interest and other interest groups not even the people's or Community at large. I recall during AfriNIC meeting in Mauritius last December 2016, the same group of people claim that the Audit Policy put the organizational at Risk because it will revoke ressouces if Members dit not complied. Today theu want AfriNIC to revoke ressouces. What will the anti - shutdown do to the organization? To be honest this policy is not solving anything instead is putting AfriNIC at high risk and need to be withdrawn. On 13 Apr 2017 6:48 a.m., "Tutu Ngcaba" wrote: On 13 Apr 2017 12:32 p.m., "Andrew Alston" wrote: Interestingly enough ? this policy has already served as a catalyst for global discussion ? and continues to do so. It has appeared all over twitter, it appeared on theregister.co.uk, it has appeared in discussion I read and this is sad. In that fake article like Donald Trump would say, it states that: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/04/12/no_ip_addresses_for_countries/ "Governments that cut off internet access to their citizens could find themselves refused new IP addresses under a proposal put forward by one of the five global IP allocation organizations." The fake article continues with another lie about the Afrinic meeting in Botwana in June as below. "The suggested clampdown will be considered at the next meeting of internet registry Afrinic in Botswana in June: " This Writter Mccarthy must have been paid to promote this nonsense about the Afrinic and our region and to make it worse its on foreign media. What kind of image such article will have on the Afrinic. Did the Arthors have anything to do with this.? Can the Afrinic condemn this kind of article written to disgress it even if the Afrinic condemns internet shuts. Best Regards, Tutu Ngcaba Kwazulu Techno Hubs South Africa _______________________________________________ RPD mailing list RPD at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From christian.bope at unikin.ac.cd Thu Apr 13 12:33:02 2017 From: christian.bope at unikin.ac.cd (Christian Bope) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 20:33:02 +0800 Subject: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC? In-Reply-To: <9E1E8054-8863-4A9A-BE89-8F838025CC98@wacren.net> References: <9E1E8054-8863-4A9A-BE89-8F838025CC98@wacren.net> Message-ID: Here my draft Dear all, I have been following this policy discussion passionately. I do understand the need of keeping Internet up all the time knowing it's importance for economies, educations, developpement and other. We should engage countries using different channels such AFGWG, AU and other multistakeholder in our community. What this policy is trying to solve is not in AfriNIC mandate or might serve personal interest and other interest groups not even the people's or Community at large. I recall during AfriNIC meeting in Mauritius last December 2016, the same group of people claim that the Audit Policy put the organizational at Risk because it will revoke ressouces if Members dit not complied. Today theu want AfriNIC to revoke ressouces. What will the anti - shutdown do to the organization? To be honest this is not solving anything instead is putting AfriNIC at high risk and need to be withdrawn. On 13 Apr 2017 6:19 a.m., "Omo Oaiya" wrote: > +1. A practical approach that could yield good results. Last thing we > want Afrinic to do is to complicate the situation with empty rhetoric and > make an already bad situation worse. > > Omo > > On 13 Apr 2017, at 12:11, Noah wrote: > > Hi Seun, > > Indeed Tutu has raise some great pointers and in addition to your > centiments, i am of the view this kind of approach is more fruitful ref: > internet shutdowns and censorship. > > I suppose AFRINIC has been in the past engaging governments through the > AFGWG and i would be keep to get some insights from AFRINIC regarding the > same. > > Meanwhile, could AFRINIC organise a BoF during the upcoming meeting where > all those who will be on the ground can discuss some of these pertinent > issues openly. We could have a panel discussion and discuss this issue way > better. > > AFRINIC could also invite some of the government officials and other > internet leaders to this kind of BoF. > > I believe a BoF is one way for AFRINIC to be proactive in engaging the > wider community. > > Also we could get folk from countries where the internet has ever been > disconnected including cameroon to share more ideas on how to approach this > issue. > > Noah > > > On 13 Apr 2017 12:24 p.m., "Seun Ojedeji" wrote: > > > > Dear Community, > > Tutu raises a critical point and I also strongly agree that we should let > this discussion live on. > > AFRINIC sure presently have provided various avenues to engage government > and as i think there seem to be a slow but steady improvement in govt > participation. I wonder how AFRINIC can futher leverage on this to drive > down the point about why government needs to stop considering a shutdown of > internet or certain service as an option. May be good to hear from staff > how participation of the AFGWG has been so far - especially to try to > identify challenges to participation and how to resolve them. > > One other thing that comes to mind is whether AFRINIC can be pro-active > instead of re-active i.e they are made aware of the planned act and issue > strong statement against it hoping that it will get to the ears of relevant > authorities and get them to reconsider. This may also be effective if the > relationship between AFRINIC and the AU (and regional bodies like ECOWAS, > EAC, COMESA etc) is strengthened as that can serve as a channel of > communication to the respective governments. > > That said, I will like to pause on the role of AFRINIC as it also seem to > me that the role of ISPs is quite critical in this. Traffic distribution > structure/topology varies by countries hence there is some level of > dependencies that would exist and I wonder if ISPs can leverage upon that > as well. Also there are situations where government would ask for shutdown > of certain services of the internet(like social media) so connectivity > still exist to reduce the outcry, perhaps in those cases, ISPs could also > make it clear that its either a total shutdown or nothing and then hope > that the country's community/citizens will notice and be loud enough to get > government to change their order. > > Just a few ideas i thought I should throw in here since we seem to have an > understanding as a community that an RIR policy cannot be a way to address > this very important issue. > > Regards > On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 9:31 AM, Tutu Ngcaba > wrote: > >> Dear the Afrinic Ltd, >> >> Since you put out a statement a few days ago condemning internet shutdown >> problem which is a serious issue. >> >> Can you please take this issue up and drive it. I request that the >> Afrinic shall and should make this as an angenda topic also in meetings to >> come. >> >> We should also involve all isoc chapters in all our countries. >> >> We can discuss the internet shutdown under the Africann and community >> mailing list and engage all members but not through policy. >> >> This will make the statement the Afrinic made as about shutdown as the >> main agenda and even we use avenues like the Afrinic AFGWG. >> >> Multistake holder meeting is also important for engaging our governements. >> >> So i believe we can all take this discussion to community and Africann >> mailing list and the Afrinic can engage the people. >> >> This way we can get all concerned african people together and find wiser >> ways of engaging our governments. >> >> Most African country economy depend on agriculture and not Internet. So >> internet is nothing to governments when they chose to shutdown temporaly >> since to them shutdown has only small term economic impact that is why some >> do it in most cases to contain chaos or riots. >> >> Let us keep in mind that some countries presidents are in power for so >> many years and the government can do anything. >> >> So simple questions like why do some governments do it are important. >> >> Awareness and education is more important not policy. >> >> Best Regards, >> >> Tutu Ngcaba >> Kwazulu Techno Hubs >> South Africa >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> RPD mailing list >> RPD at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd >> >> > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > *Seun Ojedeji,Federal University Oye-Ekitiweb: > http://www.fuoye.edu.ng Mobile: +2348035233535**alt > email: seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng > * > > Bringing another down does not take you up - think about your action! > > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > > ? > Omo Oaiya > CTO/Directeur Technique, WACREN > Mobile: +234 806 4522778 <+234%20806%20452%202778>, +221 784 305 224 > Skype: kodion > http://www.wacren.net > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Thu Apr 13 13:30:07 2017 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 16:30:07 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC? In-Reply-To: <9E1E8054-8863-4A9A-BE89-8F838025CC98@wacren.net> References: <9E1E8054-8863-4A9A-BE89-8F838025CC98@wacren.net> Message-ID: Hi Omo Yes I would rather AFRINIC engaged all stakeholder including in members and setup say a panel of different stakeholders to deliberate this issue in a multistakeholder platform. Which is why i was of the opinion that in the upcoming AIS meeting, the issue be added to the AFRINIC agenda. This is a much better approach for such a non-technical issue. Because even when we carefully examine the motive behind internet shutdowns and censorship, its so complicated for a mere policy to even offer a lasting solution and different government have had different reasons for taking such measures. So AFRINIC engaging the community at large and governments through AFGWG we can find solutions and Seun also shared some practical ideas.... Noah On 13 Apr 2017 2:17 p.m., "Omo Oaiya" wrote: > +1. A practical approach that could yield good results. Last thing we > want Afrinic to do is to complicate the situation with empty rhetoric and > make an already bad situation worse. > > Omo > > On 13 Apr 2017, at 12:11, Noah wrote: > > Hi Seun, > > Indeed Tutu has raise some great pointers and in addition to your > centiments, i am of the view this kind of approach is more fruitful ref: > internet shutdowns and censorship. > > I suppose AFRINIC has been in the past engaging governments through the > AFGWG and i would be keep to get some insights from AFRINIC regarding the > same. > > Meanwhile, could AFRINIC organise a BoF during the upcoming meeting where > all those who will be on the ground can discuss some of these pertinent > issues openly. We could have a panel discussion and discuss this issue way > better. > > AFRINIC could also invite some of the government officials and other > internet leaders to this kind of BoF. > > I believe a BoF is one way for AFRINIC to be proactive in engaging the > wider community. > > Also we could get folk from countries where the internet has ever been > disconnected including cameroon to share more ideas on how to approach this > issue. > > Noah > > > On 13 Apr 2017 12:24 p.m., "Seun Ojedeji" wrote: > > > > Dear Community, > > Tutu raises a critical point and I also strongly agree that we should let > this discussion live on. > > AFRINIC sure presently have provided various avenues to engage government > and as i think there seem to be a slow but steady improvement in govt > participation. I wonder how AFRINIC can futher leverage on this to drive > down the point about why government needs to stop considering a shutdown of > internet or certain service as an option. May be good to hear from staff > how participation of the AFGWG has been so far - especially to try to > identify challenges to participation and how to resolve them. > > One other thing that comes to mind is whether AFRINIC can be pro-active > instead of re-active i.e they are made aware of the planned act and issue > strong statement against it hoping that it will get to the ears of relevant > authorities and get them to reconsider. This may also be effective if the > relationship between AFRINIC and the AU (and regional bodies like ECOWAS, > EAC, COMESA etc) is strengthened as that can serve as a channel of > communication to the respective governments. > > That said, I will like to pause on the role of AFRINIC as it also seem to > me that the role of ISPs is quite critical in this. Traffic distribution > structure/topology varies by countries hence there is some level of > dependencies that would exist and I wonder if ISPs can leverage upon that > as well. Also there are situations where government would ask for shutdown > of certain services of the internet(like social media) so connectivity > still exist to reduce the outcry, perhaps in those cases, ISPs could also > make it clear that its either a total shutdown or nothing and then hope > that the country's community/citizens will notice and be loud enough to get > government to change their order. > > Just a few ideas i thought I should throw in here since we seem to have an > understanding as a community that an RIR policy cannot be a way to address > this very important issue. > > Regards > On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 9:31 AM, Tutu Ngcaba > wrote: > >> Dear the Afrinic Ltd, >> >> Since you put out a statement a few days ago condemning internet shutdown >> problem which is a serious issue. >> >> Can you please take this issue up and drive it. I request that the >> Afrinic shall and should make this as an angenda topic also in meetings to >> come. >> >> We should also involve all isoc chapters in all our countries. >> >> We can discuss the internet shutdown under the Africann and community >> mailing list and engage all members but not through policy. >> >> This will make the statement the Afrinic made as about shutdown as the >> main agenda and even we use avenues like the Afrinic AFGWG. >> >> Multistake holder meeting is also important for engaging our governements. >> >> So i believe we can all take this discussion to community and Africann >> mailing list and the Afrinic can engage the people. >> >> This way we can get all concerned african people together and find wiser >> ways of engaging our governments. >> >> Most African country economy depend on agriculture and not Internet. So >> internet is nothing to governments when they chose to shutdown temporaly >> since to them shutdown has only small term economic impact that is why some >> do it in most cases to contain chaos or riots. >> >> Let us keep in mind that some countries presidents are in power for so >> many years and the government can do anything. >> >> So simple questions like why do some governments do it are important. >> >> Awareness and education is more important not policy. >> >> Best Regards, >> >> Tutu Ngcaba >> Kwazulu Techno Hubs >> South Africa >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> RPD mailing list >> RPD at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd >> >> > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > *Seun Ojedeji,Federal University Oye-Ekitiweb: > http://www.fuoye.edu.ng Mobile: +2348035233535**alt > email: seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng > * > > Bringing another down does not take you up - think about your action! > > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > > ? > Omo Oaiya > CTO/Directeur Technique, WACREN > Mobile: +234 806 4522778 <+234%20806%20452%202778>, +221 784 305 224 > Skype: kodion > http://www.wacren.net > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From badru.ntege at nftconsult.com Thu Apr 13 14:12:22 2017 From: badru.ntege at nftconsult.com (Badru Ntege) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 17:12:22 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC? In-Reply-To: References: <9E1E8054-8863-4A9A-BE89-8F838025CC98@wacren.net> Message-ID: <0B2C485A-D1E3-40FB-8BFA-18015B571B91@nftconsult.com> Christian On 4/13/17, 3:33 PM, "Christian Bope" wrote: I recall during AfriNIC meeting in Mauritius last December 2016, the same group of people claim that the Audit Policy put the organizational at Risk because it will revoke ressouces if Members dit not complied. Today theu want AfriNIC to revoke ressouces. What will the anti - shutdown do to the organization? So the same members are now proposing a policy that will open AfriNIC up to wholesale litigation. One wonders the motives behind this?? Regards -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From badru.ntege at nftconsult.com Thu Apr 13 14:21:12 2017 From: badru.ntege at nftconsult.com (Badru Ntege) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 17:21:12 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)" In-Reply-To: References: <393565252.1179794.1491935741365.JavaMail.zimbra@ntc.gov.sd> <1524223421.1179814.1491936208065.JavaMail.zimbra@ntc.gov.sd> <6.2.5.6.2.20170411143235.0c802c28@elandnews.com> <982F53B7-987E-4B4B-A5A2-891E05706135@afrinic.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20170412121702.0e02d160@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20170412130450.0d855d90@elandnews.com> <5E251079-7184-4A9D-9572-C628509DB5D8@gmail.com> Message-ID: <89BA8993-784B-47BC-8746-E1EC2B723FC3@nftconsult.com> Arsene The community should be wary not to be played. On 4/13/17, 3:59 PM, "Ars?ne Tungali" wrote: Just read the article on theregistry.co.uk, a UK mainstream media, while no African newspaper thought of publishing it (or are they even aware of the ongoing discussion?) I simply love it and the way they put it. Anyone who is not familiar with this process will think it is something the AFRINIC Board is working on, rather than a simple proposal put forward by three community members (even if authors were mentioned as well). Not wanting to point any connections is this not the same media house that published a private email to discredit a member of the community not long ago. ?? And again this is the same media house that has historically published information about AfriNIC where a certain member of the community is involved?..just saying In my opinion, authors of this article made it sound like a warning to African governments, that Afrinic is working on a policy that will punish them if they dare shutting down the Internet; which is beautiful! I am sure if some governments read it, their impression (or trust) on afrinic will start to be altered (as many people have pointed out on this list). This surely is something for the governance committee to look into. A touch of ?Tilapia? arround this whole policy proposal. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alan.barrett at afrinic.net Thu Apr 13 14:33:59 2017 From: alan.barrett at afrinic.net (Alan Barrett) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 15:33:59 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Internet Shutdown session at AIS 2017 In-Reply-To: References: <9E1E8054-8863-4A9A-BE89-8F838025CC98@wacren.net> Message-ID: <4B11E19E-58B6-4918-85BC-D44F91C4CCD0@afrinic.net> I intend to organise an open discussion about Internet shutdowns at the forthcoming AIS meeting in Nairobi, Kenya, form 29 May to 2 June 2017. I?d like some suggesitons about who to invite as speakers. Alan Barrett CEO, AFRINIC From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com Thu Apr 13 14:35:26 2017 From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 14:35:26 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)" In-Reply-To: <89BA8993-784B-47BC-8746-E1EC2B723FC3@nftconsult.com> References: <393565252.1179794.1491935741365.JavaMail.zimbra@ntc.gov.sd> <1524223421.1179814.1491936208065.JavaMail.zimbra@ntc.gov.sd> <6.2.5.6.2.20170411143235.0c802c28@elandnews.com> <982F53B7-987E-4B4B-A5A2-891E05706135@afrinic.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20170412121702.0e02d160@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20170412130450.0d855d90@elandnews.com> <5E251079-7184-4A9D-9572-C628509DB5D8@gmail.com> <89BA8993-784B-47BC-8746-E1EC2B723FC3@nftconsult.com> Message-ID: Just for the sake of clarity. The authors had no contact with theregister before that article went live ? and we note certain factual inaccuracies in what was published and will reach out to get them corrected. That being said ? at the request of other media organisations ? the authors have chosen to give their perspectives. So far one such article has actually been published and can be found here: https://qz.com/957821/a-proposal-to-africas-internet-registry-afrinic-aims-to-deny-governments-ip-addresses-for-shutting-down-the-internet/ Thanks Andrew From: Badru Ntege [mailto:badru.ntege at nftconsult.com] Sent: 13 April 2017 17:21 To: Ars?ne Tungali ; Bope Domilongo Christian Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC ; rpd Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)" Arsene The community should be wary not to be played. On 4/13/17, 3:59 PM, "Ars?ne Tungali" > wrote: Just read the article on theregistry.co.uk, a UK mainstream media, while no African newspaper thought of publishing it (or are they even aware of the ongoing discussion?) I simply love it and the way they put it. Anyone who is not familiar with this process will think it is something the AFRINIC Board is working on, rather than a simple proposal put forward by three community members (even if authors were mentioned as well). Not wanting to point any connections is this not the same media house that published a private email to discredit a member of the community not long ago. ?? And again this is the same media house that has historically published information about AfriNIC where a certain member of the community is involved?..just saying In my opinion, authors of this article made it sound like a warning to African governments, that Afrinic is working on a policy that will punish them if they dare shutting down the Internet; which is beautiful! I am sure if some governments read it, their impression (or trust) on afrinic will start to be altered (as many people have pointed out on this list). This surely is something for the governance committee to look into. A touch of ?Tilapia? arround this whole policy proposal. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barry.macharia at me.com Thu Apr 13 14:38:04 2017 From: barry.macharia at me.com (Barry Macharia) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 17:38:04 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Internet Shutdown session at AIS 2017 In-Reply-To: <4B11E19E-58B6-4918-85BC-D44F91C4CCD0@afrinic.net> References: <9E1E8054-8863-4A9A-BE89-8F838025CC98@wacren.net> <4B11E19E-58B6-4918-85BC-D44F91C4CCD0@afrinic.net> Message-ID: <30281460-A17F-4447-944A-F60283FCC1FC@me.com> Director generals of communication Authorities in Africa barry > On 13 Apr 2017, at 17:33, Alan Barrett wrote: > > I intend to organise an open discussion about Internet shutdowns at the forthcoming AIS meeting in Nairobi, Kenya, form 29 May to 2 June 2017. > > I?d like some suggesitons about who to invite as speakers. > > Alan Barrett > CEO, AFRINIC > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss From ali at hussein.me.ke Thu Apr 13 14:51:43 2017 From: ali at hussein.me.ke (Ali Hussein) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 17:51:43 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Internet Shutdown session at AIS 2017 In-Reply-To: <4B11E19E-58B6-4918-85BC-D44F91C4CCD0@afrinic.net> References: <9E1E8054-8863-4A9A-BE89-8F838025CC98@wacren.net> <4B11E19E-58B6-4918-85BC-D44F91C4CCD0@afrinic.net> Message-ID: <484ECF47-EB35-48AB-B5C3-4E21E58924FE@hussein.me.ke> Alan and all This is an opportune time to discuss this important issue. The last study on this issue estimated the countries lost $2.4billion in 2015. Let's have a robust conversation on this issue at AIS. Ali Hussein Principal Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit." ~ Aristotle Sent from my iPad > On 13 Apr 2017, at 5:33 PM, Alan Barrett wrote: > > I intend to organise an open discussion about Internet shutdowns at the forthcoming AIS meeting in Nairobi, Kenya, form 29 May to 2 June 2017. > > I?d like some suggesitons about who to invite as speakers. > > Alan Barrett > CEO, AFRINIC > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From seeburn.k at gmail.com Thu Apr 13 14:53:35 2017 From: seeburn.k at gmail.com (Kris Seeburn) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 18:53:35 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Internet Shutdown session at AIS 2017 In-Reply-To: <30281460-A17F-4447-944A-F60283FCC1FC@me.com> References: <9E1E8054-8863-4A9A-BE89-8F838025CC98@wacren.net> <4B11E19E-58B6-4918-85BC-D44F91C4CCD0@afrinic.net> <30281460-A17F-4447-944A-F60283FCC1FC@me.com> Message-ID: <79B8BC5B-6ACF-4662-B1D3-3AFEE8F52337@gmail.com> May be interesting to have the ICT ministers or information ministers as well. The director generals also act on instructions but both are as important in such maters that we should envisage at our best to get them on board and listen in and participate or at least the senior advisors to the minister of ICT. Just thought as they are key to anything that happens. > On Apr 13, 2017, at 6:38 PM, Barry Macharia wrote: > > Director generals of communication Authorities in Africa > > barry > >> On 13 Apr 2017, at 17:33, Alan Barrett wrote: >> >> I intend to organise an open discussion about Internet shutdowns at the forthcoming AIS meeting in Nairobi, Kenya, form 29 May to 2 June 2017. >> >> I?d like some suggesitons about who to invite as speakers. >> >> Alan Barrett >> CEO, AFRINIC >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss Kris Seeburn seeburn.k at gmail.com www.linkedin.com/in/kseeburn/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From barry.macharia at me.com Thu Apr 13 14:54:43 2017 From: barry.macharia at me.com (Barry Macharia) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 17:54:43 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Internet Shutdown session at AIS 2017 In-Reply-To: <79B8BC5B-6ACF-4662-B1D3-3AFEE8F52337@gmail.com> References: <9E1E8054-8863-4A9A-BE89-8F838025CC98@wacren.net> <4B11E19E-58B6-4918-85BC-D44F91C4CCD0@afrinic.net> <30281460-A17F-4447-944A-F60283FCC1FC@me.com> <79B8BC5B-6ACF-4662-B1D3-3AFEE8F52337@gmail.com> Message-ID: <04C208B9-90E9-447C-9EA1-A2294A3D7C47@me.com> +++1 > On 13 Apr 2017, at 17:53, Kris Seeburn wrote: > > May be interesting to have the ICT ministers or information ministers as well. The director generals also act on instructions but both are as important in such maters that we should envisage at our best to get them on board and listen in and participate or at least the senior advisors to the minister of ICT. Just thought as they are key to anything that happens. > >> On Apr 13, 2017, at 6:38 PM, Barry Macharia > wrote: >> >> Director generals of communication Authorities in Africa >> >> barry >> >>> On 13 Apr 2017, at 17:33, Alan Barrett > wrote: >>> >>> I intend to organise an open discussion about Internet shutdowns at the forthcoming AIS meeting in Nairobi, Kenya, form 29 May to 2 June 2017. >>> >>> I?d like some suggesitons about who to invite as speakers. >>> >>> Alan Barrett >>> CEO, AFRINIC >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Community-Discuss mailing list >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > Kris Seeburn > seeburn.k at gmail.com > www.linkedin.com/in/kseeburn/ > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From badru.ntege at nftconsult.com Thu Apr 13 15:03:38 2017 From: badru.ntege at nftconsult.com (Badru Ntege) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 18:03:38 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)" In-Reply-To: <81CA2818-9AFB-44AE-9321-A177033BA41A@hopcount.ca> References: <393565252.1179794.1491935741365.JavaMail.zimbra@ntc.gov.sd> <1524223421.1179814.1491936208065.JavaMail.zimbra@ntc.gov.sd> <6.2.5.6.2.20170411143235.0c802c28@elandnews.com> <982F53B7-987E-4B4B-A5A2-891E05706135@afrinic.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20170412121702.0e02d160@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20170412130450.0d855d90@elandnews.com> <5E251079-7184-4A9D-9572-C628509DB5D8@gmail.com> <89BA8993-784B-47BC-8746-E1EC2B723FC3@nftconsult.com> <81CA2818-9AFB-44AE-9321-A177033BA41A@hopcount.ca> Message-ID: <3C0AC049-BD42-4573-AB3C-E9E35E10B5C3@nftconsult.com> Hey Joe The media is a necessary evil that has been used to achieve particular objectives both good and bad. I have no problem with any media coverage that furthers the good of AfriNIC and the internet as a whole. Over the 13 years of AfriNIC we have achieved so much, impacted so many lives and seen the continent change in so many ways. AfriNIC has carried out so many outreach trainings. I remember when I Sudan where I walked in a class that had more women than Men all amazingly good networking professionals. And I have seen very limited media coverage. The few times that this same media house has focused on AfriNIC is on the negative if not concoted stories. I think we should be ready to call this out when we see it. Badru On 4/13/17, 5:37 PM, "Joe Abley" wrote: Hi Badru, I have no standing (at least in my own mind) to have an opinion on this proposal; that would be a matter for Africans, and I'm merely an enthusiastic and occasional visitor. However, I found Kieran's article to be pretty balanced and accurate. He summarised the intent well, he went out of his way to say that this is just a proposal, and he didn't make any outrageous claims about the practical impact that any policy action by AfriNIC could have. His characterisation of techies vs. government matches the spirit of a lot of the comments I've seen on this list (and it's a hook that tends to resonate well with the libertarian readership of that web site). The comments from readers that follow the story in the register are another matter, however. They demonstrate a pronounced lack of technical understanding of what AfriNIC is, what its responsibilities are and what its impact is. There are suggestions that AfriNIC can shut down parts of the Internet by revoking access to address blocks and that declining to allocate new blocks could knock end-users off-line, for example, neither of which are particularly accurate. Once again, setting aside the merits of the proposal itself, I think there's an opportunity here while at least one minor eye of the press is looking in this direction to clarify some of these points and take advantage of the educational opportunity. I don't think it's particularly useful to deal with reactions in the press by being annoyed that they have happened; better I think to assume that they will continue and to have a plan for that eventuality. Regardless of the outcome of the policy process it would be nice to think that a side effect was at least that some people come away with a better understanding of what AfriNIC does. That's surely something that everybody can agree with. Joe On 13 Apr 2017, at 10:21, Badru Ntege wrote: Arsene The community should be wary not to be played. On 4/13/17, 3:59 PM, "Ars?ne Tungali" wrote: Just read the article on theregistry.co.uk, a UK mainstream media, while no African newspaper thought of publishing it (or are they even aware of the ongoing discussion?) I simply love it and the way they put it. Anyone who is not familiar with this process will think it is something the AFRINIC Board is working on, rather than a simple proposal put forward by three community members (even if authors were mentioned as well). Not wanting to point any connections is this not the same media house that published a private email to discredit a member of the community not long ago. ?? And again this is the same media house that has historically published information about AfriNIC where a certain member of the community is involved?..just saying In my opinion, authors of this article made it sound like a warning to African governments, that Afrinic is working on a policy that will punish them if they dare shutting down the Internet; which is beautiful! I am sure if some governments read it, their impression (or trust) on afrinic will start to be altered (as many people have pointed out on this list). This surely is something for the governance committee to look into. A touch of ?Tilapia? arround this whole policy proposal. _______________________________________________ RPD mailing list RPD at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From badru.ntege at nftconsult.com Thu Apr 13 15:09:12 2017 From: badru.ntege at nftconsult.com (Badru Ntege) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 18:09:12 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)" In-Reply-To: References: <393565252.1179794.1491935741365.JavaMail.zimbra@ntc.gov.sd> <1524223421.1179814.1491936208065.JavaMail.zimbra@ntc.gov.sd> <6.2.5.6.2.20170411143235.0c802c28@elandnews.com> <982F53B7-987E-4B4B-A5A2-891E05706135@afrinic.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20170412121702.0e02d160@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20170412130450.0d855d90@elandnews.com> <5E251079-7184-4A9D-9572-C628509DB5D8@gmail.com> <89BA8993-784B-47BC-8746-E1EC2B723FC3@nftconsult.com> Message-ID: <68040C41-F6EF-4338-AF8F-99BECF14EDEC@nftconsult.com> Andrew On 4/13/17, 5:35 PM, "Andrew Alston" wrote: That being said ? at the request of other media organisations ? the authors have chosen to give their perspectives. So far one such article has actually been published and can be found here: https://qz.com/957821/a-proposal-to-africas-internet-registry-afrinic-aims-to-deny-governments-ip-addresses-for-shutting-down-the-internet/ Not sure about the correctness when it comes to how the RIR PDP process should be working but also what a sitting board member can and cannot do. (baring in mind the board menber is a community member first.) Can we get a guidance position on this from either GC or CEO. Regards Badru Thanks Andrew From: Badru Ntege [mailto:badru.ntege at nftconsult.com] Sent: 13 April 2017 17:21 To: Ars?ne Tungali ; Bope Domilongo Christian Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC ; rpd Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)" Arsene The community should be wary not to be played. On 4/13/17, 3:59 PM, "Ars?ne Tungali" wrote: Just read the article on theregistry.co.uk, a UK mainstream media, while no African newspaper thought of publishing it (or are they even aware of the ongoing discussion?) I simply love it and the way they put it. Anyone who is not familiar with this process will think it is something the AFRINIC Board is working on, rather than a simple proposal put forward by three community members (even if authors were mentioned as well). Not wanting to point any connections is this not the same media house that published a private email to discredit a member of the community not long ago. ?? And again this is the same media house that has historically published information about AfriNIC where a certain member of the community is involved?..just saying In my opinion, authors of this article made it sound like a warning to African governments, that Afrinic is working on a policy that will punish them if they dare shutting down the Internet; which is beautiful! I am sure if some governments read it, their impression (or trust) on afrinic will start to be altered (as many people have pointed out on this list). This surely is something for the governance committee to look into. A touch of ?Tilapia? arround this whole policy proposal. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arsenebaguma at gmail.com Thu Apr 13 12:59:06 2017 From: arsenebaguma at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Ars=C3=A8ne_Tungali?=) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 14:59:06 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)" In-Reply-To: References: <393565252.1179794.1491935741365.JavaMail.zimbra@ntc.gov.sd> <1524223421.1179814.1491936208065.JavaMail.zimbra@ntc.gov.sd> <6.2.5.6.2.20170411143235.0c802c28@elandnews.com> <982F53B7-987E-4B4B-A5A2-891E05706135@afrinic.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20170412121702.0e02d160@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20170412130450.0d855d90@elandnews.com> <5E251079-7184-4A9D-9572-C628509DB5D8@gmail.com> Message-ID: If this proposal was simply to forge discussion around this topic, then the authors won and I salute that result! I would love it to stay that way and not to be adopted by this community for the number of reasons so eloquently mentioned here. If I haven?t said it clearly, I oppose this policy. Just read the article on theregistry.co.uk, a UK mainstream media, while no African newspaper thought of publishing it (or are they even aware of the ongoing discussion?) I simply love it and the way they put it. Anyone who is not familiar with this process will think it is something the AFRINIC Board is working on, rather than a simple proposal put forward by three community members (even if authors were mentioned as well). In my opinion, authors of this article made it sound like a warning to African governments, that Afrinic is working on a policy that will punish them if they dare shutting down the Internet; which is beautiful! I am sure if some governments read it, their impression (or trust) on afrinic will start to be altered (as many people have pointed out on this list). On the other hand, if none reaches to AFRINIC to ask for explanation (such as through the afrinic forum with Governments), that would mean they might also be worried of the registry daring to play such a role, of punishing them for their ?sovereign? actions. Despite some errors in the article (wondering whether the author is on this list), I would encourage more press to feature this discussion and then at the end, because the policy will be withdrawn (I really hope), AFRINIC can make it clear that the community didn?t find it suitable and that as a registry, it is not part of their mandate. ------------------------ **Ars?ne Tungali** Co-Founder & Executive Director, *Rudi international *, CEO,* Smart Services Sarl *, *Mabingwa Forum * Tel: +243 993810967 GPG: 523644A0 *Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo* 2015 Mandela Washington Felllow (YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF Brazil & Mexico ) - AFRISIG 2016 - Blogger - ICANN Fellow (Los Angeles & Marrakech ). AFRINIC Fellow (Mauritius )* - *IGFSA Member - Internet Governance - Internet Freedom. Check the 2016 State of Internet Freedom in DRC report 2017-04-13 14:31 GMT+02:00 Bope Domilongo Christian : > Dear all, > > I have been following this policy discussion passionately. > > I do understand the need of keeping Internet up all the time knowing it's > importance for economies, educations, developpement and other. > > We should engage countries using different channels such AFGWG, AU and > other multistakeholder in our community. > > What this policy is trying to solve is not in AfriNIC mandate or might > potentially serve personal interest and other interest groups not even the > people's or Community at large. > > I recall during AfriNIC meeting in Mauritius last December 2016, the same > group of people claim that the Audit Policy put the organizational at Risk > because it will revoke ressouces if Members dit not complied. Today theu > want AfriNIC to revoke ressouces. What will the anti - shutdown do to the > organization? > > To be honest this policy is not solving anything instead is putting > AfriNIC at high risk and need to be withdrawn. > > On 13 Apr 2017 6:48 a.m., "Tutu Ngcaba" wrote: > > > On 13 Apr 2017 12:32 p.m., "Andrew Alston" om> wrote: > > Interestingly enough ? this policy has already served as a catalyst for > global discussion ? and continues to do so. > > > > It has appeared all over twitter, it appeared on theregister.co.uk, it > has appeared in discussion > > I read and this is sad. > > In that fake article like Donald Trump would say, it states that: > > https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/04/12/no_ip_addresses_for_countries/ > > "Governments that cut off internet access to their citizens could find > themselves refused new IP addresses under a proposal put forward by one of > the five global IP allocation organizations." > > The fake article continues with another lie about the Afrinic meeting in > Botwana in June as below. > > "The suggested clampdown > will > be considered at the next meeting of internet registry Afrinic in Botswana > in June: " > > This Writter Mccarthy must have been paid to promote this nonsense about > the Afrinic and our region and to make it worse its on foreign media. > > What kind of image such article will have on the Afrinic. > > Did the Arthors have anything to do with this.? > > Can the Afrinic condemn this kind of article written to disgress it even > if the Afrinic condemns internet shuts. > > Best Regards, > > Tutu Ngcaba > Kwazulu Techno Hubs > South Africa > > _______________________________________________ > RPD mailing list > RPD at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd > > > > _______________________________________________ > RPD mailing list > RPD at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sfolayan at skannet.com Thu Apr 13 13:37:50 2017 From: sfolayan at skannet.com (Sunday Folayan) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 14:37:50 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Who is the guarantor of AFRINIC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <269b2d06-07e2-05b7-f634-9c9e1a342df2@skannet.com> Dear Arnaud and all, The Board will make some clarifications shortly. Thanks and Regards ... Sunday Folayan. Board Chair. On 13/04/2017 13:26, Arnaud AMELINA wrote: > *English :* > > Dear member of the community, What is the aim of the authors and the > initiators of this Article ??? > > Do they have the right to share a process that has not yet been > adopted externally, still coming from a member of the Board of > Afrinic, is unacceptable, is there no longer any limit In AFRINIC, > that the different leaders take their respononsibilities and remind to > the order the indelices > > The name AFRINIC has been engaged in this article, even though the > subject in question has not yet ratified by the community of AFRINIC > or the BOARD. > > > *French :* > Chers membre de la communaut?, Quel est le but vis? par les auteurs et > les initiateurs de cet Article ??? > Ont-il le droit de faire part d'un processus non encore adopt? ? > l'ext?rieur, venant encore de la part d'un membre du Board d'Afrinic > c'est innacceptable, n'y a-t-il plus de limite ? AFRINIC, que les > diff?rents responsables prennent leurs respponsabilit?s et rappellent > ? l'odre les ind?licats. > > Le nom d'AFRINIC a ?t? engag? dans cet article alors m?me que le sujet > en question ne soit ratifi? par la communaut? d'AFRINIC ou par le BOARD. > > > > Twitter > Facebook G+ > LinkedIn > > Home Data Centre > Software > Security > Transformation > DevOps > Business > Personal Tech > Science > Emergent Tech > Bootnotes > search > > > > Data Centre > > Arrow > > > Networks > > > > > No more IP addresses for countries that shut down internet access > > > Afrinic considers punitive policy for errant governments > > reddit > > > Twitter > > > Facebook > linkedin > > > 12 Apr 2017 at 19:54, Kieren McCarthy > > > Governments that cut off internet access to their citizens could find > themselves refused new IP addresses under a proposal put forward by > one of the five global IP allocation organizations. > > The suggested clampdown > > will be considered at the next meeting of internet registry Afrinic in > Botswana in June: Afrinic is in charge of managing and allocating IP > address blocks across Africa. > > Under the proposal, a new section would be added to Afrinic's official > rules that would allow the organization to refuse to hand over any new > IP address to a country for 12 months if it is found to have ordered > an internet shutdown. > > The ban would cover all government-owned entities and others that have > a "direct provable relationship with said government." It would also > cover any transfer of address space to those entities from others. > > That withdrawal of services would escalate if the country continued to > pull the plug on internet access. Under the proposal: "In the event of > a government performing three or more such shutdowns in a period of 10 > years ? all resources to the aforementioned entities shall be revoked > and no allocations to said entities shall occur for a period of 5 years." > > The proposal was sparked by a recent increase in the number of > complete nationwide shutdowns of internet service ? something that has > been a cause of increasing concern and ire within the internet > infrastructure community. > > > The start > > The trend started during the Egyptian revolution back in 2011 when > authorities killed the entire's country web access > prior > to a big protest march. Employees of ISPs and mobile phone companies > reported troops turning up at their homes and pointing guns at their > families in order to enforce the shutdown. > > Until then, many governments had assumed it was largely impossible to > turn off internet access to their entire nation. Soon after, > government departments educated themselves about AS numbers and > internet routing and started using their power to set up systems that > would allow them to order the shutdown of all networks from a central > point. > > While some countries only used this ability in the more dire > circumstances ? riots or terrorist attacks ? shutdowns quickly started > being used preemptively and for political reasons. > > Bangladesh switched off > > its entire country's net connectivity prior to the sentencing of > former government leaders for war crimes. Then Iraq started shutting > down the entire country for several hours at a time in order to > prevent exam cheating > . > > While these were enormously frustrating, the shutdown typically lasted > only a few hours. But then Cameroon decided to cut off the internet > for weeks ? and targeted specific communities. The country's southwest > and northwest provinces were taken offline following violent protests: > a decision that had a hugely damaging impact on its "Silicon Mountain" > startup zone, and also took down its banks and ATMs. > > In India, the number and frequency of internet shutdowns has sparked a > new protest movement and website that > tracks them. > > The situation has grown so dire that the United Nations got involved > and officially condemned > > the practice at a meeting of the Human Rights Council back in July. > Despite opposition from a number of countries ? including China, > Russia, India and Kenya ? a resolution passed forbidding mass web > blockades. > > > Plan > > The reality, however, is that there is nothing to prevent governments > from shutting down the internet and very little anyone can do in the > face of a determined push from the authorities. > > But now the techies are fighting back. The Afrinic proposal has been > put forward by the CTO and the Head of IP strategy for Liquid > Telecommunications ? a large pan-African ISP ? as well as the CEO of > Kenya's main ISP Association. As such it is a proposal that many are > taking seriously. > > "While the authors of this policy acknowledge that what is proposed is > draconian in nature, we feel that the time has come for action to be > taken, rather than just bland statements that have shown to have > little or no effect," they wrote, noting that "over the last few years > we have seen more and more governments shutting down the free and open > access to the internet in order to push political and other agendas." > > Whether governments like it or not, they are reliant on the provision > of IP address to expand their networks and digital economy, and > Afrinic is the only organization that can realistically provide them. > If the policy does get passed, it would almost certainly act as a > strong deterrent for government ministers to shutting down internet > access. > > But there are a wealth of problems with the idea, not least of which > would be the determination of what represents an internet shutdown. > The authors put forward a suggested definition: > > An internet shutdown is deemed to have occurred when it can be > proved that there was an attempt, failed or successful, to > restrict access to the internet to a segment of the population > irrespective of the provider or access medium that they utilize. > > That wording is likely to be very heavily scrutinized. And it would > require someone or group to make a determination that it has happened > ? which would likely become a politically charged decision. And none > of that considers the fact that national leaders are unlikely to > accept punitive terms being placed against them by a third party. > > In short, it is a huge political headache. But it may also be one that > only the internet community is capable to taking on and winning. The > next few months will see whether the 'net community in Africa is > willing to take on the challenge for the greater good. ? > > Sponsored: Continuous lifecycle London 2017 event. DevOps, continuous > delivery and containerisation. Register now > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > RPD mailing list > RPD at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sfolayan at skannet.com Thu Apr 13 13:39:24 2017 From: sfolayan at skannet.com (Sunday Folayan) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 14:39:24 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC? In-Reply-To: References: <9E1E8054-8863-4A9A-BE89-8F838025CC98@wacren.net> Message-ID: Colleagues, This is a very reasonable proposition, consistent with the principles that guide us. I shall bring it to the attention of the Board, to explore ways that AFRINIC through the AfGWG can galvanize our engagement with Governments for the common good. Best. Sunday Folayan. On 13/04/2017 14:30, Noah wrote: > Hi Omo > > Yes I would rather AFRINIC engaged all stakeholder including in > members and setup say a panel of different stakeholders to deliberate > this issue in a multistakeholder platform. > > Which is why i was of the opinion that in the upcoming AIS meeting, > the issue be added to the AFRINIC agenda. > > This is a much better approach for such a non-technical issue. Because > even when we carefully examine the motive behind internet shutdowns > and censorship, its so complicated for a mere policy to even offer a > lasting solution and different government have had different reasons > for taking such measures. > > So AFRINIC engaging the community at large and governments through > AFGWG we can find solutions and Seun also shared some practical ideas.... > > Noah > > On 13 Apr 2017 2:17 p.m., "Omo Oaiya" > wrote: > > +1. A practical approach that could yield good results. Last > thing we want Afrinic to do is to complicate the situation with > empty rhetoric and make an already bad situation worse. > > Omo > >> On 13 Apr 2017, at 12:11, Noah > > wrote: >> >> Hi Seun, >> >> Indeed Tutu has raise some great pointers and in addition to your >> centiments, i am of the view this kind of approach is more >> fruitful ref: internet shutdowns and censorship. >> >> I suppose AFRINIC has been in the past engaging governments >> through the AFGWG and i would be keep to get some insights from >> AFRINIC regarding the same. >> >> Meanwhile, could AFRINIC organise a BoF during the upcoming >> meeting where all those who will be on the ground can discuss >> some of these pertinent issues openly. We could have a panel >> discussion and discuss this issue way better. >> >> AFRINIC could also invite some of the government officials and >> other internet leaders to this kind of BoF. >> >> I believe a BoF is one way for AFRINIC to be proactive in >> engaging the wider community. >> >> Also we could get folk from countries where the internet has ever >> been disconnected including cameroon to share more ideas on how >> to approach this issue. >> >> Noah >> >> >> On 13 Apr 2017 12:24 p.m., "Seun Ojedeji" > > wrote: >> >> >> >> Dear Community, >> >> Tutu raises a critical point and I also strongly agree that >> we should let this discussion live on. >> >> AFRINIC sure presently have provided various avenues to >> engage government and as i think there seem to be a slow but >> steady improvement in govt participation. I wonder how >> AFRINIC can futher leverage on this to drive down the point >> about why government needs to stop considering a shutdown of >> internet or certain service as an option. May be good to hear >> from staff how participation of the AFGWG has been so far - >> especially to try to identify challenges to participation and >> how to resolve them. >> >> One other thing that comes to mind is whether AFRINIC can be >> pro-active instead of re-active i.e they are made aware of >> the planned act and issue strong statement against it hoping >> that it will get to the ears of relevant authorities and get >> them to reconsider. This may also be effective if the >> relationship between AFRINIC and the AU (and regional bodies >> like ECOWAS, EAC, COMESA etc) is strengthened as that can >> serve as a channel of communication to the respective >> governments. >> >> That said, I will like to pause on the role of AFRINIC as it >> also seem to me that the role of ISPs is quite critical in >> this. Traffic distribution structure/topology varies by >> countries hence there is some level of dependencies that >> would exist and I wonder if ISPs can leverage upon that as >> well. Also there are situations where government would ask >> for shutdown of certain services of the internet(like social >> media) so connectivity still exist to reduce the outcry, >> perhaps in those cases, ISPs could also make it clear that >> its either a total shutdown or nothing and then hope that the >> country's community/citizens will notice and be loud enough >> to get government to change their order. >> >> Just a few ideas i thought I should throw in here since we >> seem to have an understanding as a community that an RIR >> policy cannot be a way to address this very important issue. >> >> Regards >> On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 9:31 AM, Tutu Ngcaba >> > wrote: >> >> Dear the Afrinic Ltd, >> >> Since you put out a statement a few days ago condemning >> internet shutdown problem which is a serious issue. >> >> Can you please take this issue up and drive it. I request >> that the Afrinic shall and should make this as an angenda >> topic also in meetings to come. >> >> We should also involve all isoc chapters in all our >> countries. >> >> We can discuss the internet shutdown under the Africann >> and community mailing list and engage all members but not >> through policy. >> >> This will make the statement the Afrinic made as about >> shutdown as the main agenda and even we use avenues like >> the Afrinic AFGWG. >> >> Multistake holder meeting is also important for engaging >> our governements. >> >> So i believe we can all take this discussion to community >> and Africann mailing list and the Afrinic can engage the >> people. >> >> This way we can get all concerned african people together >> and find wiser ways of engaging our governments. >> >> Most African country economy depend on agriculture and >> not Internet. So internet is nothing to governments when >> they chose to shutdown temporaly since to them shutdown >> has only small term economic impact that is why some do >> it in most cases to contain chaos or riots. >> >> Let us keep in mind that some countries presidents are in >> power for so many years and the government can do anything. >> >> So simple questions like why do some governments do it >> are important. >> >> Awareness and education is more important not policy. >> >> Best Regards, >> >> Tutu Ngcaba >> Kwazulu Techno Hubs >> South Africa >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> RPD mailing list >> RPD at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> /Seun Ojedeji, >> Federal University Oye-Ekiti >> web: http://www.fuoye.edu.ng >> Mobile: +2348035233535 >> //alt >> email:seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng >> / >> >> Bringing another down does not take you up - think >> about your action! >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > > > ? > Omo Oaiya > CTO/Directeur Technique, WACREN > Mobile: +234 806 4522778 , +221 784 > 305 224 > Skype: kodion > http://www.wacren.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jabley at hopcount.ca Thu Apr 13 14:37:38 2017 From: jabley at hopcount.ca (Joe Abley) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 10:37:38 -0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)" In-Reply-To: <89BA8993-784B-47BC-8746-E1EC2B723FC3@nftconsult.com> References: <393565252.1179794.1491935741365.JavaMail.zimbra@ntc.gov.sd> <1524223421.1179814.1491936208065.JavaMail.zimbra@ntc.gov.sd> <6.2.5.6.2.20170411143235.0c802c28@elandnews.com> <982F53B7-987E-4B4B-A5A2-891E05706135@afrinic.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20170412121702.0e02d160@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20170412130450.0d855d90@elandnews.com> <5E251079-7184-4A9D-9572-C628509DB5D8@gmail.com> <89BA8993-784B-47BC-8746-E1EC2B723FC3@nftconsult.com> Message-ID: <81CA2818-9AFB-44AE-9321-A177033BA41A@hopcount.ca> Hi Badru, I have no standing (at least in my own mind) to have an opinion on this proposal; that would be a matter for Africans, and I'm merely an enthusiastic and occasional visitor. However, I found Kieran's article to be pretty balanced and accurate. He summarised the intent well, he went out of his way to say that this is just a proposal, and he didn't make any outrageous claims about the practical impact that any policy action by AfriNIC could have. His characterisation of techies vs. government matches the spirit of a lot of the comments I've seen on this list (and it's a hook that tends to resonate well with the libertarian readership of that web site). The comments from readers that follow the story in the register are another matter, however. They demonstrate a pronounced lack of technical understanding of what AfriNIC is, what its responsibilities are and what its impact is. There are suggestions that AfriNIC can shut down parts of the Internet by revoking access to address blocks and that declining to allocate new blocks could knock end-users off-line, for example, neither of which are particularly accurate. Once again, setting aside the merits of the proposal itself, I think there's an opportunity here while at least one minor eye of the press is looking in this direction to clarify some of these points and take advantage of the educational opportunity. I don't think it's particularly useful to deal with reactions in the press by being annoyed that they have happened; better I think to assume that they will continue and to have a plan for that eventuality. Regardless of the outcome of the policy process it would be nice to think that a side effect was at least that some people come away with a better understanding of what AfriNIC does. That's surely something that everybody can agree with. Joe On 13 Apr 2017, at 10:21, Badru Ntege wrote: > Arsene > > The community should be wary not to be played. > > > On 4/13/17, 3:59 PM, "Ars?ne Tungali" > wrote: >> Just read the article on theregistry.co.uk , a UK mainstream media, while no African newspaper thought of publishing it (or are they even aware of the ongoing discussion?) I simply love it and the way they put it. Anyone who is not familiar with this process will think it is something the AFRINIC Board is working on, rather than a simple proposal put forward by three community members (even if authors were mentioned as well). > > Not wanting to point any connections is this not the same media house that published a private email to discredit a member of the community not long ago. ?? > > And again this is the same media house that has historically published information about AfriNIC where a certain member of the community is involved?..just saying > > > >> >> In my opinion, authors of this article made it sound like a warning to African governments, that Afrinic is working on a policy that will punish them if they dare shutting down the Internet; which is beautiful! I am sure if some governments read it, their impression (or trust) on afrinic will start to be altered (as many people have pointed out on this list). > > This surely is something for the governance committee to look into. > > A touch of ?Tilapia? arround this whole policy proposal. > > > _______________________________________________ > RPD mailing list > RPD at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pan.afrikhan at gmail.com Thu Apr 13 15:47:18 2017 From: pan.afrikhan at gmail.com (Tutu Ngcaba) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 18:47:18 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Internet Shutdown session at AIS 2017 In-Reply-To: <4B11E19E-58B6-4918-85BC-D44F91C4CCD0@afrinic.net> References: <9E1E8054-8863-4A9A-BE89-8F838025CC98@wacren.net> <4B11E19E-58B6-4918-85BC-D44F91C4CCD0@afrinic.net> Message-ID: Dear CEO of the Afrinic, The regulatory authorities of our various African countries and some other political officials and business officials who are investors in the internet economy of Africa. CEO and CIO of major Internet companies in our motherland. All this will also open discussion beyond just Internet shutdowns to governance and accountability. Best Regards, Tutu Ngcaba Kwazulu Techno Hubs South Africa On 13 Apr 2017 5:34 p.m., "Alan Barrett" wrote: > I intend to organise an open discussion about Internet shutdowns at the > forthcoming AIS meeting in Nairobi, Kenya, form 29 May to 2 June 2017. > > I?d like some suggesitons about who to invite as speakers. > > Alan Barrett > CEO, AFRINIC > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pan.afrikhan at gmail.com Thu Apr 13 15:59:54 2017 From: pan.afrikhan at gmail.com (Tutu Ngcaba) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 18:59:54 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC? In-Reply-To: References: <9E1E8054-8863-4A9A-BE89-8F838025CC98@wacren.net> Message-ID: Dear Brother Folayan Yes this is the best way as we can not fight our governments. We can only engage them through all channels available like AFGWG and others. The Afrinic CEO already promised he shall organise open discussions at the AIS which is fantastic initial progress on how to go about this issue. We welcome all the initiatives that shall promote open dialogue and awareness. We should also reach out to different ISOC chapters in our countries and even ISOC day is another avenue to discuss such concerning matters. Best Regards, Tutu Ngcaba Kwazulu Techno Hubs South Africa On 13 Apr 2017 6:11 p.m., "Sunday Folayan" wrote: > Colleagues, > > This is a very reasonable proposition, consistent with the principles that > guide us. > > I shall bring it to the attention of the Board, to explore ways that > AFRINIC through the AfGWG can galvanize our engagement with Governments for > the common good. > > Best. > Sunday Folayan. > > On 13/04/2017 14:30, Noah wrote: > > Hi Omo > > Yes I would rather AFRINIC engaged all stakeholder including in members > and setup say a panel of different stakeholders to deliberate this issue in > a multistakeholder platform. > > Which is why i was of the opinion that in the upcoming AIS meeting, the > issue be added to the AFRINIC agenda. > > This is a much better approach for such a non-technical issue. Because > even when we carefully examine the motive behind internet shutdowns and > censorship, its so complicated for a mere policy to even offer a lasting > solution and different government have had different reasons for taking > such measures. > > So AFRINIC engaging the community at large and governments through AFGWG > we can find solutions and Seun also shared some practical ideas.... > > Noah > > On 13 Apr 2017 2:17 p.m., "Omo Oaiya" wrote: > >> +1. A practical approach that could yield good results. Last thing we >> want Afrinic to do is to complicate the situation with empty rhetoric and >> make an already bad situation worse. >> >> Omo >> >> On 13 Apr 2017, at 12:11, Noah wrote: >> >> Hi Seun, >> >> Indeed Tutu has raise some great pointers and in addition to your >> centiments, i am of the view this kind of approach is more fruitful ref: >> internet shutdowns and censorship. >> >> I suppose AFRINIC has been in the past engaging governments through the >> AFGWG and i would be keep to get some insights from AFRINIC regarding the >> same. >> >> Meanwhile, could AFRINIC organise a BoF during the upcoming meeting where >> all those who will be on the ground can discuss some of these pertinent >> issues openly. We could have a panel discussion and discuss this issue way >> better. >> >> AFRINIC could also invite some of the government officials and other >> internet leaders to this kind of BoF. >> >> I believe a BoF is one way for AFRINIC to be proactive in engaging the >> wider community. >> >> Also we could get folk from countries where the internet has ever been >> disconnected including cameroon to share more ideas on how to approach this >> issue. >> >> Noah >> >> >> On 13 Apr 2017 12:24 p.m., "Seun Ojedeji" wrote: >> >> >> >> Dear Community, >> >> Tutu raises a critical point and I also strongly agree that we should let >> this discussion live on. >> >> AFRINIC sure presently have provided various avenues to engage government >> and as i think there seem to be a slow but steady improvement in govt >> participation. I wonder how AFRINIC can futher leverage on this to drive >> down the point about why government needs to stop considering a shutdown of >> internet or certain service as an option. May be good to hear from staff >> how participation of the AFGWG has been so far - especially to try to >> identify challenges to participation and how to resolve them. >> >> One other thing that comes to mind is whether AFRINIC can be pro-active >> instead of re-active i.e they are made aware of the planned act and issue >> strong statement against it hoping that it will get to the ears of relevant >> authorities and get them to reconsider. This may also be effective if the >> relationship between AFRINIC and the AU (and regional bodies like ECOWAS, >> EAC, COMESA etc) is strengthened as that can serve as a channel of >> communication to the respective governments. >> >> That said, I will like to pause on the role of AFRINIC as it also seem to >> me that the role of ISPs is quite critical in this. Traffic distribution >> structure/topology varies by countries hence there is some level of >> dependencies that would exist and I wonder if ISPs can leverage upon that >> as well. Also there are situations where government would ask for shutdown >> of certain services of the internet(like social media) so connectivity >> still exist to reduce the outcry, perhaps in those cases, ISPs could also >> make it clear that its either a total shutdown or nothing and then hope >> that the country's community/citizens will notice and be loud enough to get >> government to change their order. >> >> Just a few ideas i thought I should throw in here since we seem to have >> an understanding as a community that an RIR policy cannot be a way to >> address this very important issue. >> >> Regards >> On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 9:31 AM, Tutu Ngcaba >> wrote: >> >>> Dear the Afrinic Ltd, >>> >>> Since you put out a statement a few days ago condemning internet >>> shutdown problem which is a serious issue. >>> >>> Can you please take this issue up and drive it. I request that the >>> Afrinic shall and should make this as an angenda topic also in meetings to >>> come. >>> >>> We should also involve all isoc chapters in all our countries. >>> >>> We can discuss the internet shutdown under the Africann and community >>> mailing list and engage all members but not through policy. >>> >>> This will make the statement the Afrinic made as about shutdown as the >>> main agenda and even we use avenues like the Afrinic AFGWG. >>> >>> Multistake holder meeting is also important for engaging our >>> governements. >>> >>> So i believe we can all take this discussion to community and Africann >>> mailing list and the Afrinic can engage the people. >>> >>> This way we can get all concerned african people together and find wiser >>> ways of engaging our governments. >>> >>> Most African country economy depend on agriculture and not Internet. So >>> internet is nothing to governments when they chose to shutdown temporaly >>> since to them shutdown has only small term economic impact that is why some >>> do it in most cases to contain chaos or riots. >>> >>> Let us keep in mind that some countries presidents are in power for so >>> many years and the government can do anything. >>> >>> So simple questions like why do some governments do it are important. >>> >>> Awareness and education is more important not policy. >>> >>> Best Regards, >>> >>> Tutu Ngcaba >>> Kwazulu Techno Hubs >>> South Africa >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> RPD mailing list >>> RPD at afrinic.net >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> >> >> >> *Seun Ojedeji, Federal University Oye-Ekiti web: >> http://www.fuoye.edu.ng Mobile: +2348035233535 **alt >> email: seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng >> * >> >> Bringing another down does not take you up - think about your action! >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> >> >> >> ? >> Omo Oaiya >> CTO/Directeur Technique, WACREN >> Mobile: +234 806 4522778 <+234%20806%20452%202778>, +221 784 305 224 >> Skype: kodion >> http://www.wacren.net >> >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From evelyngeek at gmail.com Thu Apr 13 16:02:11 2017 From: evelyngeek at gmail.com (Evelyn Namara) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 19:02:11 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Internet Shutdown session at AIS 2017 In-Reply-To: References: <9E1E8054-8863-4A9A-BE89-8F838025CC98@wacren.net> <4B11E19E-58B6-4918-85BC-D44F91C4CCD0@afrinic.net> Message-ID: +1 to the Regulatory authorities as well as Ministers of ICT You should also mix it up with very strong civil society Organisations that have spoken out on Internet Shutdowns widely. AccessNow, CIPESA etc come to mind. Regards, Evelyn. On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 6:47 PM, Tutu Ngcaba wrote: > Dear CEO of the Afrinic, > > The regulatory authorities of our various African countries and some other > political officials and business officials who are investors in the > internet economy of Africa. > > CEO and CIO of major Internet companies in our motherland. > > All this will also open discussion beyond just Internet shutdowns to > governance and accountability. > > Best Regards, > > Tutu Ngcaba > Kwazulu Techno Hubs > South Africa > > > On 13 Apr 2017 5:34 p.m., "Alan Barrett" wrote: > >> I intend to organise an open discussion about Internet shutdowns at the >> forthcoming AIS meeting in Nairobi, Kenya, form 29 May to 2 June 2017. >> >> I?d like some suggesitons about who to invite as speakers. >> >> Alan Barrett >> CEO, AFRINIC >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > -- Evelyn Namara | T: +256 754 440893 | E: enamara at riseup.net | Twitter: @enamara | Skype: enamara PGP: B94D 3950 38D6 914A E054 D6C5 E82E 0F66 DC01 E30D -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pan.afrikhan at gmail.com Thu Apr 13 16:12:00 2017 From: pan.afrikhan at gmail.com (Tutu Ngcaba) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 19:12:00 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Internet Shutdown session at AIS 2017 In-Reply-To: References: <9E1E8054-8863-4A9A-BE89-8F838025CC98@wacren.net> <4B11E19E-58B6-4918-85BC-D44F91C4CCD0@afrinic.net> Message-ID: My dear sister Evelyn Yes the civil society is also very important. The Afrinic should also consider them. Best Regards, Tutu Ngcaba Kwazulu Techno Hubs South Africa On 13 Apr 2017 7:02 p.m., "Evelyn Namara" wrote: > +1 to the Regulatory authorities as well as Ministers of ICT > You should also mix it up with very strong civil society Organisations > that have spoken out on Internet Shutdowns widely. AccessNow, CIPESA etc > come to mind. > > Regards, > > Evelyn. > > On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 6:47 PM, Tutu Ngcaba > wrote: > >> Dear CEO of the Afrinic, >> >> The regulatory authorities of our various African countries and some >> other political officials and business officials who are investors in the >> internet economy of Africa. >> >> CEO and CIO of major Internet companies in our motherland. >> >> All this will also open discussion beyond just Internet shutdowns to >> governance and accountability. >> >> Best Regards, >> >> Tutu Ngcaba >> Kwazulu Techno Hubs >> South Africa >> >> >> On 13 Apr 2017 5:34 p.m., "Alan Barrett" >> wrote: >> >>> I intend to organise an open discussion about Internet shutdowns at the >>> forthcoming AIS meeting in Nairobi, Kenya, form 29 May to 2 June 2017. >>> >>> I?d like some suggesitons about who to invite as speakers. >>> >>> Alan Barrett >>> CEO, AFRINIC >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Community-Discuss mailing list >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> >> > > > -- > > > Evelyn Namara | T: +256 754 440893 <+256%20754%20440893> | E: > enamara at riseup.net | Twitter: @enamara | > Skype: enamara > > PGP: B94D 3950 38D6 914A E054 D6C5 E82E 0F66 DC01 E30D > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ish at lsl.digital Thu Apr 13 16:18:42 2017 From: ish at lsl.digital (Ish Sookun) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 20:18:42 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Internet Shutdown session at AIS 2017 In-Reply-To: <79B8BC5B-6ACF-4662-B1D3-3AFEE8F52337@gmail.com> References: <9E1E8054-8863-4A9A-BE89-8F838025CC98@wacren.net> <4B11E19E-58B6-4918-85BC-D44F91C4CCD0@afrinic.net> <30281460-A17F-4447-944A-F60283FCC1FC@me.com> <79B8BC5B-6ACF-4662-B1D3-3AFEE8F52337@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Kris, On 04/13/2017 06:53 PM, Kris Seeburn wrote: > May be interesting to have the ICT ministers or information ministers as > well. The director generals also act on instructions but both are as > important in such maters that we should envisage at our best to get them > on board and listen in and participate or at least the senior advisors > to the minister of ICT. Just thought as they are key to anything that > happens. I see Alan has mentioned that the meeting is happening in Kenya. If that were in a local context, i.e Mauritius, I would be a little skeptical to have the TCI Minister or "senior advisors" involved. Advisors or officers close to ministers are mostly known to be yes-man, while the ministers themselves have most of the time little experience in the field of technology, communication or yet about innovation. The post of advisor is often given as "gift" to political agents who might not necessarily have any interest beyond their own political advancement (instead of technology advancement). It might produce better results to have people who are technology influencers and who understand & can also disseminate the information in the right way. Digital freedom activists are to be considered as well. NGOs involved in the promotion of technology for social impact are good candidates. Regards, -- Ish Sookun I drink coffee and manage Linux servers for lexpress.mu. From seeburn.k at gmail.com Thu Apr 13 16:28:37 2017 From: seeburn.k at gmail.com (Kris Seeburn) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 20:28:37 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Internet Shutdown session at AIS 2017 In-Reply-To: References: <9E1E8054-8863-4A9A-BE89-8F838025CC98@wacren.net> <4B11E19E-58B6-4918-85BC-D44F91C4CCD0@afrinic.net> <30281460-A17F-4447-944A-F60283FCC1FC@me.com> <79B8BC5B-6ACF-4662-B1D3-3AFEE8F52337@gmail.com> Message-ID: <0CFC36FA-96BD-42E0-9A9D-AD034B055089@gmail.com> Hi Ish, In this particular situation it is not the technology people who are really concerned directly. That i why i proposed those people as they need to understand the real impact. The conditions whereby having technies only is not going to help; The discussion with AFGWG (African Government Working Group) these mainly come down to Regulators. This subject of shutdown has more direct implication to the ministers themselves. Whe they really understand the impact that they have on there country, they would start seeing the real issue. When we go back to ITU for example the representatives of the countries at ITU is the minister hie?her advisors and the regulator. As much as we want to see more techies they are not the deciders to shut down the internet. They already know how to execute and shut down. Thats why i proposed to put these people on board. If they can go to an ITU general assembly they should see the importance of there relative actions. The government approach is important and even more at this point because they are the every ones who take the decisions. in egypt the staff were held at gun point to turn off the internet connectivity. In mauritius we know it was again the minister via the PMO who requested to take down Face Book. Without the press we ma have been at a stall mate. > On Apr 13, 2017, at 8:18 PM, Ish Sookun wrote: > > Hi Kris, > > On 04/13/2017 06:53 PM, Kris Seeburn wrote: >> May be interesting to have the ICT ministers or information ministers as >> well. The director generals also act on instructions but both are as >> important in such maters that we should envisage at our best to get them >> on board and listen in and participate or at least the senior advisors >> to the minister of ICT. Just thought as they are key to anything that >> happens. > > I see Alan has mentioned that the meeting is happening in Kenya. If that > were in a local context, i.e Mauritius, I would be a little skeptical to > have the TCI Minister or "senior advisors" involved. > > Advisors or officers close to ministers are mostly known to be yes-man, > while the ministers themselves have most of the time little experience > in the field of technology, communication or yet about innovation. The > post of advisor is often given as "gift" to political agents who might > not necessarily have any interest beyond their own political advancement > (instead of technology advancement). > > It might produce better results to have people who are technology > influencers and who understand & can also disseminate the information in > the right way. Digital freedom activists are to be considered as well. > NGOs involved in the promotion of technology for social impact are good > candidates. > > Regards, > > -- > Ish Sookun > > I drink coffee and manage Linux servers for lexpress.mu. Kris Seeburn seeburn.k at gmail.com www.linkedin.com/in/kseeburn/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pan.afrikhan at gmail.com Thu Apr 13 16:34:50 2017 From: pan.afrikhan at gmail.com (Tutu Ngcaba) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 19:34:50 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Internet Shutdown session at AIS 2017 In-Reply-To: References: <9E1E8054-8863-4A9A-BE89-8F838025CC98@wacren.net> <4B11E19E-58B6-4918-85BC-D44F91C4CCD0@afrinic.net> <30281460-A17F-4447-944A-F60283FCC1FC@me.com> <79B8BC5B-6ACF-4662-B1D3-3AFEE8F52337@gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Brother Ish, You are very correct. Most of the politicians are ignorant about technology even the ministers are normally not technology people. I remember the senator of America called Ted Cruz who went to the USA congress to propose ideas that can stop a piece of Internet the ICANN from being managed under global governance. So sometimes the politicians are ignorant. So the Afrinic should invite technical government people who can explain to the politicians in lay man language about importance of open internet. This problem is very serious and more education and engagement is the best way and platform to reach out to the politicians. Best Regards, Tutu Ngcaba Kwazulu Techno Hubs South Africa On 13 Apr 2017 7:19 p.m., "Ish Sookun" wrote: > Hi Kris, > > On 04/13/2017 06:53 PM, Kris Seeburn wrote: > > May be interesting to have the ICT ministers or information ministers as > > well. The director generals also act on instructions but both are as > > important in such maters that we should envisage at our best to get them > > on board and listen in and participate or at least the senior advisors > > to the minister of ICT. Just thought as they are key to anything that > > happens. > > I see Alan has mentioned that the meeting is happening in Kenya. If that > were in a local context, i.e Mauritius, I would be a little skeptical to > have the TCI Minister or "senior advisors" involved. > > Advisors or officers close to ministers are mostly known to be yes-man, > while the ministers themselves have most of the time little experience > in the field of technology, communication or yet about innovation. The > post of advisor is often given as "gift" to political agents who might > not necessarily have any interest beyond their own political advancement > (instead of technology advancement). > > It might produce better results to have people who are technology > influencers and who understand & can also disseminate the information in > the right way. Digital freedom activists are to be considered as well. > NGOs involved in the promotion of technology for social impact are good > candidates. > > Regards, > > -- > Ish Sookun > > I drink coffee and manage Linux servers for lexpress.mu. > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From akin.akinfenwa at uniosun.edu.ng Thu Apr 13 16:38:42 2017 From: akin.akinfenwa at uniosun.edu.ng (Timothy Ola Akinfenwa) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 17:38:42 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Internet Shutdown session at AIS 2017 In-Reply-To: <0CFC36FA-96BD-42E0-9A9D-AD034B055089@gmail.com> References: <9E1E8054-8863-4A9A-BE89-8F838025CC98@wacren.net> <4B11E19E-58B6-4918-85BC-D44F91C4CCD0@afrinic.net> <30281460-A17F-4447-944A-F60283FCC1FC@me.com> <79B8BC5B-6ACF-4662-B1D3-3AFEE8F52337@gmail.com> <0CFC36FA-96BD-42E0-9A9D-AD034B055089@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi All, +1 to all shared views above. Will only add that when bringing Government officials, please invite "politicians" with sound ICT background knowledge who know or have an idea of what we are talking about. Most ministers of ICT are not politician?s and vice versa. The discussion should be centered on/around the major players. Tim On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 5:28 PM, Kris Seeburn wrote: > Hi Ish, > > In this particular situation it is not the technology people who are > really concerned directly. That i why i proposed those people as they need > to understand the real impact. The conditions whereby having technies only > is not going to help; The discussion with AFGWG (African Government Working > Group) these mainly come down to Regulators. This subject of shutdown has > more direct implication to the ministers themselves. Whe they really > understand the impact that they have on there country, they would start > seeing the real issue. > > When we go back to ITU for example the representatives of the countries at > ITU is the minister hie?her advisors and the regulator. As much as we want > to see more techies they are not the deciders to shut down the internet. > They already know how to execute and shut down. > > Thats why i proposed to put these people on board. If they can go to an > ITU general assembly they should see the importance of there relative > actions. The government approach is important and even more at this point > because they are the every ones who take the decisions. in egypt the staff > were held at gun point to turn off the internet connectivity. In mauritius > we know it was again the minister via the PMO who requested to take down > Face Book. Without the press we ma have been at a stall mate. > > > > On Apr 13, 2017, at 8:18 PM, Ish Sookun wrote: > > Hi Kris, > > On 04/13/2017 06:53 PM, Kris Seeburn wrote: > > May be interesting to have the ICT ministers or information ministers as > well. The director generals also act on instructions but both are as > important in such maters that we should envisage at our best to get them > on board and listen in and participate or at least the senior advisors > to the minister of ICT. Just thought as they are key to anything that > happens. > > > I see Alan has mentioned that the meeting is happening in Kenya. If that > were in a local context, i.e Mauritius, I would be a little skeptical to > have the TCI Minister or "senior advisors" involved. > > Advisors or officers close to ministers are mostly known to be yes-man, > while the ministers themselves have most of the time little experience > in the field of technology, communication or yet about innovation. The > post of advisor is often given as "gift" to political agents who might > not necessarily have any interest beyond their own political advancement > (instead of technology advancement). > > It might produce better results to have people who are technology > influencers and who understand & can also disseminate the information in > the right way. Digital freedom activists are to be considered as well. > NGOs involved in the promotion of technology for social impact are good > candidates. > > Regards, > > -- > Ish Sookun > > I drink coffee and manage Linux servers for lexpress.mu. > > > Kris Seeburn > seeburn.k at gmail.com > > - www.linkedin.com/in/kseeburn/ > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pan.afrikhan at gmail.com Thu Apr 13 17:00:33 2017 From: pan.afrikhan at gmail.com (Tutu Ngcaba) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 20:00:33 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Who is the guarantor of AFRINIC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Brother Arnaud, I also follow comments from that register article and a lot of people ridicule the Africa community which is not good due to mistake from that Author McCathry. Best Regards, Tutu Ngcaba Kwazulu Techno Hubs South Africa On 13 Apr 2017 3:27 p.m., "Arnaud AMELINA" wrote: > *English :* > > Dear member of the community, What is the aim of the authors and the > initiators of this Article ??? > > Do they have the right to share a process that has not yet been adopted > externally, still coming from a member of the Board of Afrinic, is > unacceptable, is there no longer any limit In AFRINIC, that the different > leaders take their respononsibilities and remind to the order the indelices > > The name AFRINIC has been engaged in this article, even though the subject > in question has not yet ratified by the community of AFRINIC or the BOARD. > > > *French :* > Chers membre de la communaut?, Quel est le but vis? par les auteurs et les > initiateurs de cet Article ??? > Ont-il le droit de faire part d'un processus non encore adopt? ? > l'ext?rieur, venant encore de la part d'un membre du Board d'Afrinic c'est > innacceptable, n'y a-t-il plus de limite ? AFRINIC, que les diff?rents > responsables prennent leurs respponsabilit?s et rappellent ? l'odre les > ind?licats. > > Le nom d'AFRINIC a ?t? engag? dans cet article alors m?me que le sujet en > question ne soit ratifi? par la communaut? d'AFRINIC ou par le BOARD. > > > > [image: Twitter] [image: > Facebook] [image: G+] > [image: LinkedIn] > > [image: Home] Data Centre > Software > Security > Transformation > DevOps > Business > Personal Tech > Science > Emergent Tech > Bootnotes > [image: search] > > Data Centre [image: Arrow] > Networks > No more IP addresses for countries that shut down internet access Afrinic > considers punitive policy for errant governments > [image: reddit] > > > [image: Twitter] > > > [image: Facebook] > [image: linkedin] > > > 12 Apr 2017 at 19:54, Kieren McCarthy > > > Governments that cut off internet access to their citizens could find > themselves refused new IP addresses under a proposal put forward by one of > the five global IP allocation organizations. > > The suggested clampdown > > will be considered at the next meeting of internet registry Afrinic in > Botswana in June: Afrinic is in charge of managing and allocating IP > address blocks across Africa. > > Under the proposal, a new section would be added to Afrinic's official > rules that would allow the organization to refuse to hand over any new IP > address to a country for 12 months if it is found to have ordered an > internet shutdown. > > The ban would cover all government-owned entities and others that have a > "direct provable relationship with said government." It would also cover > any transfer of address space to those entities from others. > > That withdrawal of services would escalate if the country continued to > pull the plug on internet access. Under the proposal: "In the event of a > government performing three or more such shutdowns in a period of 10 years > ? all resources to the aforementioned entities shall be revoked and no > allocations to said entities shall occur for a period of 5 years." > > The proposal was sparked by a recent increase in the number of complete > nationwide shutdowns of internet service ? something that has been a cause > of increasing concern and ire within the internet infrastructure community. > The start > > The trend started during the Egyptian revolution back in 2011 when > authorities killed the entire's country web access > prior to > a big protest march. Employees of ISPs and mobile phone companies reported > troops turning up at their homes and pointing guns at their families in > order to enforce the shutdown. > > Until then, many governments had assumed it was largely impossible to turn > off internet access to their entire nation. Soon after, government > departments educated themselves about AS numbers and internet routing and > started using their power to set up systems that would allow them to order > the shutdown of all networks from a central point. > > While some countries only used this ability in the more dire circumstances > ? riots or terrorist attacks ? shutdowns quickly started being used > preemptively and for political reasons. > > Bangladesh switched off > > its entire country's net connectivity prior to the sentencing of former > government leaders for war crimes. Then Iraq started shutting down the > entire country for several hours at a time in order to prevent exam > cheating > > . > > While these were enormously frustrating, the shutdown typically lasted > only a few hours. But then Cameroon decided to cut off the internet for > weeks ? and targeted specific communities. The country's southwest and > northwest provinces were taken offline following violent protests: a > decision that had a hugely damaging impact on its "Silicon Mountain" > startup zone, and also took down its banks and ATMs. > > In India, the number and frequency of internet shutdowns has sparked a new protest > movement and website that tracks them. > > The situation has grown so dire that the United Nations got involved and officially > condemned > > the practice at a meeting of the Human Rights Council back in July. Despite > opposition from a number of countries ? including China, Russia, India and > Kenya ? a resolution passed forbidding mass web blockades. > Plan > > The reality, however, is that there is nothing to prevent governments from > shutting down the internet and very little anyone can do in the face of a > determined push from the authorities. > > But now the techies are fighting back. The Afrinic proposal has been put > forward by the CTO and the Head of IP strategy for Liquid > Telecommunications ? a large pan-African ISP ? as well as the CEO of > Kenya's main ISP Association. As such it is a proposal that many are taking > seriously. > > "While the authors of this policy acknowledge that what is proposed is > draconian in nature, we feel that the time has come for action to be taken, > rather than just bland statements that have shown to have little or no > effect," they wrote, noting that "over the last few years we have seen more > and more governments shutting down the free and open access to the internet > in order to push political and other agendas." > > Whether governments like it or not, they are reliant on the provision of > IP address to expand their networks and digital economy, and Afrinic is the > only organization that can realistically provide them. If the policy does > get passed, it would almost certainly act as a strong deterrent for > government ministers to shutting down internet access. > > But there are a wealth of problems with the idea, not least of which would > be the determination of what represents an internet shutdown. The authors > put forward a suggested definition: > > An internet shutdown is deemed to have occurred when it can be proved that > there was an attempt, failed or successful, to restrict access to the > internet to a segment of the population irrespective of the provider or > access medium that they utilize. > > That wording is likely to be very heavily scrutinized. And it would > require someone or group to make a determination that it has happened ? > which would likely become a politically charged decision. And none of that > considers the fact that national leaders are unlikely to accept punitive > terms being placed against them by a third party. > > In short, it is a huge political headache. But it may also be one that > only the internet community is capable to taking on and winning. The next > few months will see whether the 'net community in Africa is willing to take > on the challenge for the greater good. ? > > Sponsored: Continuous lifecycle London 2017 event. DevOps, continuous > delivery and containerisation. Register now > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ish at lsl.digital Thu Apr 13 17:23:44 2017 From: ish at lsl.digital (Ish Sookun) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 21:23:44 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Internet Shutdown session at AIS 2017 In-Reply-To: <0CFC36FA-96BD-42E0-9A9D-AD034B055089@gmail.com> References: <9E1E8054-8863-4A9A-BE89-8F838025CC98@wacren.net> <4B11E19E-58B6-4918-85BC-D44F91C4CCD0@afrinic.net> <30281460-A17F-4447-944A-F60283FCC1FC@me.com> <79B8BC5B-6ACF-4662-B1D3-3AFEE8F52337@gmail.com> <0CFC36FA-96BD-42E0-9A9D-AD034B055089@gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Kris, On 04/13/2017 08:28 PM, Kris Seeburn wrote: > In mauritius we know it was again the minister via the PMO who requested > to take down Face Book. Without the press we ma have been at a stall mate. Thanks for clarifying your point. For the above though, as you said, it is thanks to the "press". Somehow that was my point, as the press acted as an influencer while the authority blindly executed the orders received from the PMO. It is this sort of difference that I am hinting at. Unfortunately we do not have groups that can really tackle a draconian measure of the government. The press does it but when it comes to matters relating to the internet, sadly, other group(s) should intervene. I do get your point to include gov officials so that they too understand the impact of such decisions/measures. Regards, -- Ish Sookun I drink coffee and manage Linux servers for lexpress.mu. From silber.mike at gmail.com Thu Apr 13 18:20:51 2017 From: silber.mike at gmail.com (Mike Silber) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 18:20:51 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Who is the guarantor of AFRINIC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Arnaud Kieren McCarthy is a well known author and commentator on Internet issues. He follows various lists. This was a public policy proposal. Nothing to stop an external party from picking it up. So please don't impute the authors of the proposal just because someone wrote an article. Mike On Thu, 13 Apr 2017 at 2:27 PM Arnaud AMELINA wrote: > *English :* > > Dear member of the community, What is the aim of the authors and the > initiators of this Article ??? > > Do they have the right to share a process that has not yet been adopted > externally, still coming from a member of the Board of Afrinic, is > unacceptable, is there no longer any limit In AFRINIC, that the different > leaders take their respononsibilities and remind to the order the indelices > > The name AFRINIC has been engaged in this article, even though the subject > in question has not yet ratified by the community of AFRINIC or the BOARD. > > > *French :* > Chers membre de la communaut?, Quel est le but vis? par les auteurs et les > initiateurs de cet Article ??? > Ont-il le droit de faire part d'un processus non encore adopt? ? > l'ext?rieur, venant encore de la part d'un membre du Board d'Afrinic c'est > innacceptable, n'y a-t-il plus de limite ? AFRINIC, que les diff?rents > responsables prennent leurs respponsabilit?s et rappellent ? l'odre les > ind?licats. > > Le nom d'AFRINIC a ?t? engag? dans cet article alors m?me que le sujet en > question ne soit ratifi? par la communaut? d'AFRINIC ou par le BOARD. > > > > [image: Twitter] [image: > Facebook] [image: G+] > [image: LinkedIn] > > [image: Home] Data Centre > Software > Security > Transformation > DevOps > Business > Personal Tech > Science > Emergent Tech > Bootnotes > [image: search] > > Data Centre [image: Arrow] > Networks > No more IP addresses for countries that shut down internet access Afrinic > considers punitive policy for errant governments > [image: reddit] > > > [image: Twitter] > > > [image: Facebook] > [image: linkedin] > > > 12 Apr 2017 at 19:54, Kieren McCarthy > > > Governments that cut off internet access to their citizens could find > themselves refused new IP addresses under a proposal put forward by one of > the five global IP allocation organizations. > > The suggested clampdown > > will be considered at the next meeting of internet registry Afrinic in > Botswana in June: Afrinic is in charge of managing and allocating IP > address blocks across Africa. > > Under the proposal, a new section would be added to Afrinic's official > rules that would allow the organization to refuse to hand over any new IP > address to a country for 12 months if it is found to have ordered an > internet shutdown. > > The ban would cover all government-owned entities and others that have a > "direct provable relationship with said government." It would also cover > any transfer of address space to those entities from others. > > That withdrawal of services would escalate if the country continued to > pull the plug on internet access. Under the proposal: "In the event of a > government performing three or more such shutdowns in a period of 10 years > ? all resources to the aforementioned entities shall be revoked and no > allocations to said entities shall occur for a period of 5 years." > > The proposal was sparked by a recent increase in the number of complete > nationwide shutdowns of internet service ? something that has been a cause > of increasing concern and ire within the internet infrastructure community. > The start > > The trend started during the Egyptian revolution back in 2011 when > authorities killed the entire's country web access > prior to > a big protest march. Employees of ISPs and mobile phone companies reported > troops turning up at their homes and pointing guns at their families in > order to enforce the shutdown. > > Until then, many governments had assumed it was largely impossible to turn > off internet access to their entire nation. Soon after, government > departments educated themselves about AS numbers and internet routing and > started using their power to set up systems that would allow them to order > the shutdown of all networks from a central point. > > While some countries only used this ability in the more dire circumstances > ? riots or terrorist attacks ? shutdowns quickly started being used > preemptively and for political reasons. > > Bangladesh switched off > > its entire country's net connectivity prior to the sentencing of former > government leaders for war crimes. Then Iraq started shutting down the > entire country for several hours at a time in order to prevent exam > cheating > > . > > While these were enormously frustrating, the shutdown typically lasted > only a few hours. But then Cameroon decided to cut off the internet for > weeks ? and targeted specific communities. The country's southwest and > northwest provinces were taken offline following violent protests: a > decision that had a hugely damaging impact on its "Silicon Mountain" > startup zone, and also took down its banks and ATMs. > > In India, the number and frequency of internet shutdowns has sparked a new protest > movement and website that tracks them. > > The situation has grown so dire that the United Nations got involved and officially > condemned > > the practice at a meeting of the Human Rights Council back in July. Despite > opposition from a number of countries ? including China, Russia, India and > Kenya ? a resolution passed forbidding mass web blockades. > Plan > > The reality, however, is that there is nothing to prevent governments from > shutting down the internet and very little anyone can do in the face of a > determined push from the authorities. > > But now the techies are fighting back. The Afrinic proposal has been put > forward by the CTO and the Head of IP strategy for Liquid > Telecommunications ? a large pan-African ISP ? as well as the CEO of > Kenya's main ISP Association. As such it is a proposal that many are taking > seriously. > > "While the authors of this policy acknowledge that what is proposed is > draconian in nature, we feel that the time has come for action to be taken, > rather than just bland statements that have shown to have little or no > effect," they wrote, noting that "over the last few years we have seen more > and more governments shutting down the free and open access to the internet > in order to push political and other agendas." > > Whether governments like it or not, they are reliant on the provision of > IP address to expand their networks and digital economy, and Afrinic is the > only organization that can realistically provide them. If the policy does > get passed, it would almost certainly act as a strong deterrent for > government ministers to shutting down internet access. > > But there are a wealth of problems with the idea, not least of which would > be the determination of what represents an internet shutdown. The authors > put forward a suggested definition: > > An internet shutdown is deemed to have occurred when it can be proved that > there was an attempt, failed or successful, to restrict access to the > internet to a segment of the population irrespective of the provider or > access medium that they utilize. > > That wording is likely to be very heavily scrutinized. And it would > require someone or group to make a determination that it has happened ? > which would likely become a politically charged decision. And none of that > considers the fact that national leaders are unlikely to accept punitive > terms being placed against them by a third party. > > In short, it is a huge political headache. But it may also be one that > only the internet community is capable to taking on and winning. The next > few months will see whether the 'net community in Africa is willing to take > on the challenge for the greater good. ? > > Sponsored: Continuous lifecycle London 2017 event. DevOps, continuous > delivery and containerisation. Register now > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amelnaud at gmail.com Thu Apr 13 18:24:05 2017 From: amelnaud at gmail.com (Arnaud AMELINA) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 18:24:05 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Who is the guarantor of AFRINIC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 2017-04-13 17:00 GMT+00:00 Tutu Ngcaba : > Brother Arnaud, > > I also follow comments from that register article and a lot of people > ridicule the Africa community which is not good due to mistake from that > Author McCathry. > > Best Regards, > > Tutu Ngcaba > Kwazulu Techno Hubs > South Africa > > Brother Tutu, I followed with attention all of your intervention. Congratulation, for your good and wised observations. Regards Arnaud. > > On 13 Apr 2017 3:27 p.m., "Arnaud AMELINA" wrote: > >> *English :* >> >> Dear member of the community, What is the aim of the authors and the >> initiators of this Article ??? >> >> Do they have the right to share a process that has not yet been adopted >> externally, still coming from a member of the Board of Afrinic, is >> unacceptable, is there no longer any limit In AFRINIC, that the >> different leaders take their respononsibilities and remind to the order the >> indelices >> >> The name AFRINIC has been engaged in this article, even though the >> subject in question has not yet ratified by the community of AFRINIC or the >> BOARD. >> >> >> *French :* >> Chers membre de la communaut?, Quel est le but vis? par les auteurs et >> les initiateurs de cet Article ??? >> Ont-il le droit de faire part d'un processus non encore adopt? ? >> l'ext?rieur, venant encore de la part d'un membre du Board d'Afrinic c'est >> innacceptable, n'y a-t-il plus de limite ? AFRINIC, que les diff?rents >> responsables prennent leurs respponsabilit?s et rappellent ? l'odre les >> ind?licats. >> >> Le nom d'AFRINIC a ?t? engag? dans cet article alors m?me que le sujet en >> question ne soit ratifi? par la communaut? d'AFRINIC ou par le BOARD. >> >> >> >> [image: Twitter] >> [image: >> Facebook] [image: G+] >> [image: LinkedIn] >> >> [image: Home] Data Centre >> Software >> Security >> Transformation >> DevOps >> Business >> Personal Tech >> Science >> Emergent Tech >> Bootnotes >> [image: search] >> >> Data Centre [image: Arrow] >> Networks >> No more IP addresses for countries that shut down internet access Afrinic >> considers punitive policy for errant governments >> [image: reddit] >> >> >> [image: Twitter] >> >> >> [image: Facebook] >> [image: linkedin] >> >> >> 12 Apr 2017 at 19:54, Kieren McCarthy >> >> >> Governments that cut off internet access to their citizens could find >> themselves refused new IP addresses under a proposal put forward by one of >> the five global IP allocation organizations. >> >> The suggested clampdown >> >> will be considered at the next meeting of internet registry Afrinic in >> Botswana in June: Afrinic is in charge of managing and allocating IP >> address blocks across Africa. >> >> Under the proposal, a new section would be added to Afrinic's official >> rules that would allow the organization to refuse to hand over any new IP >> address to a country for 12 months if it is found to have ordered an >> internet shutdown. >> >> The ban would cover all government-owned entities and others that have a >> "direct provable relationship with said government." It would also cover >> any transfer of address space to those entities from others. >> >> That withdrawal of services would escalate if the country continued to >> pull the plug on internet access. Under the proposal: "In the event of a >> government performing three or more such shutdowns in a period of 10 years >> ? all resources to the aforementioned entities shall be revoked and no >> allocations to said entities shall occur for a period of 5 years." >> >> The proposal was sparked by a recent increase in the number of complete >> nationwide shutdowns of internet service ? something that has been a cause >> of increasing concern and ire within the internet infrastructure community. >> The start >> >> The trend started during the Egyptian revolution back in 2011 when >> authorities killed the entire's country web access >> prior to >> a big protest march. Employees of ISPs and mobile phone companies reported >> troops turning up at their homes and pointing guns at their families in >> order to enforce the shutdown. >> >> Until then, many governments had assumed it was largely impossible to >> turn off internet access to their entire nation. Soon after, government >> departments educated themselves about AS numbers and internet routing and >> started using their power to set up systems that would allow them to order >> the shutdown of all networks from a central point. >> >> While some countries only used this ability in the more dire >> circumstances ? riots or terrorist attacks ? shutdowns quickly started >> being used preemptively and for political reasons. >> >> Bangladesh switched off >> >> its entire country's net connectivity prior to the sentencing of former >> government leaders for war crimes. Then Iraq started shutting down the >> entire country for several hours at a time in order to prevent exam >> cheating >> >> . >> >> While these were enormously frustrating, the shutdown typically lasted >> only a few hours. But then Cameroon decided to cut off the internet for >> weeks ? and targeted specific communities. The country's southwest and >> northwest provinces were taken offline following violent protests: a >> decision that had a hugely damaging impact on its "Silicon Mountain" >> startup zone, and also took down its banks and ATMs. >> >> In India, the number and frequency of internet shutdowns has sparked a >> new protest movement and website that >> tracks them. >> >> The situation has grown so dire that the United Nations got involved and officially >> condemned >> >> the practice at a meeting of the Human Rights Council back in July. Despite >> opposition from a number of countries ? including China, Russia, India and >> Kenya ? a resolution passed forbidding mass web blockades. >> Plan >> >> The reality, however, is that there is nothing to prevent governments >> from shutting down the internet and very little anyone can do in the face >> of a determined push from the authorities. >> >> But now the techies are fighting back. The Afrinic proposal has been put >> forward by the CTO and the Head of IP strategy for Liquid >> Telecommunications ? a large pan-African ISP ? as well as the CEO of >> Kenya's main ISP Association. As such it is a proposal that many are taking >> seriously. >> >> "While the authors of this policy acknowledge that what is proposed is >> draconian in nature, we feel that the time has come for action to be taken, >> rather than just bland statements that have shown to have little or no >> effect," they wrote, noting that "over the last few years we have seen more >> and more governments shutting down the free and open access to the internet >> in order to push political and other agendas." >> >> Whether governments like it or not, they are reliant on the provision of >> IP address to expand their networks and digital economy, and Afrinic is the >> only organization that can realistically provide them. If the policy does >> get passed, it would almost certainly act as a strong deterrent for >> government ministers to shutting down internet access. >> >> But there are a wealth of problems with the idea, not least of which >> would be the determination of what represents an internet shutdown. The >> authors put forward a suggested definition: >> >> An internet shutdown is deemed to have occurred when it can be proved >> that there was an attempt, failed or successful, to restrict access to the >> internet to a segment of the population irrespective of the provider or >> access medium that they utilize. >> >> That wording is likely to be very heavily scrutinized. And it would >> require someone or group to make a determination that it has happened ? >> which would likely become a politically charged decision. And none of that >> considers the fact that national leaders are unlikely to accept punitive >> terms being placed against them by a third party. >> >> In short, it is a huge political headache. But it may also be one that >> only the internet community is capable to taking on and winning. The next >> few months will see whether the 'net community in Africa is willing to take >> on the challenge for the greater good. ? >> >> Sponsored: Continuous lifecycle London 2017 event. DevOps, continuous >> delivery and containerisation. Register now >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pan.afrikhan at gmail.com Thu Apr 13 18:35:51 2017 From: pan.afrikhan at gmail.com (Tutu Ngcaba) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 21:35:51 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Who is the guarantor of AFRINIC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Brother Mike Silber, That Kieren McCarthy Author writes mistakes that even in comments of that bad article about the Afrinic, people have redicule the Afrinic and you can see even the CEO of the Afrinic has made clarificarions to this McCarthy. Even the article title very misleading and call him well known. Maybe he should not write about the Afrinic anymore. This is bad image for our motherland. Someone even saying we will be like North Korea and such bad articles dont even give solution. African is a different place my brothers, let us solve our challengew ourselves. Why are you even supporting this McCarthy? Best Regards, Tutu Ngcaba Kwazulu Techno Hubs South Africa On 13 Apr 2017 9:21 p.m., "Mike Silber" wrote: Arnaud Kieren McCarthy is a well known author and commentator on Internet issues. He follows various lists. This was a public policy proposal. Nothing to stop an external party from picking it up. So please don't impute the authors of the proposal just because someone wrote an article. Mike On Thu, 13 Apr 2017 at 2:27 PM Arnaud AMELINA wrote: > *English :* > > Dear member of the community, What is the aim of the authors and the > initiators of this Article ??? > > Do they have the right to share a process that has not yet been adopted > externally, still coming from a member of the Board of Afrinic, is > unacceptable, is there no longer any limit In AFRINIC, that the different > leaders take their respononsibilities and remind to the order the indelices > > The name AFRINIC has been engaged in this article, even though the subject > in question has not yet ratified by the community of AFRINIC or the BOARD. > > > *French :* > Chers membre de la communaut?, Quel est le but vis? par les auteurs et les > initiateurs de cet Article ??? > Ont-il le droit de faire part d'un processus non encore adopt? ? > l'ext?rieur, venant encore de la part d'un membre du Board d'Afrinic c'est > innacceptable, n'y a-t-il plus de limite ? AFRINIC, que les diff?rents > responsables prennent leurs respponsabilit?s et rappellent ? l'odre les > ind?licats. > > Le nom d'AFRINIC a ?t? engag? dans cet article alors m?me que le sujet en > question ne soit ratifi? par la communaut? d'AFRINIC ou par le BOARD. > > > > [image: Twitter] [image: > Facebook] [image: G+] > [image: LinkedIn] > > [image: Home] Data Centre > Software > Security > Transformation > DevOps > Business > Personal Tech > Science > Emergent Tech > Bootnotes > [image: search] > > Data Centre [image: Arrow] > Networks > No more IP addresses for countries that shut down internet access Afrinic > considers punitive policy for errant governments > [image: reddit] > > > [image: Twitter] > > > [image: Facebook] > [image: linkedin] > > > 12 Apr 2017 at 19:54, Kieren McCarthy > > > Governments that cut off internet access to their citizens could find > themselves refused new IP addresses under a proposal put forward by one of > the five global IP allocation organizations. > > The suggested clampdown > > will be considered at the next meeting of internet registry Afrinic in > Botswana in June: Afrinic is in charge of managing and allocating IP > address blocks across Africa. > > Under the proposal, a new section would be added to Afrinic's official > rules that would allow the organization to refuse to hand over any new IP > address to a country for 12 months if it is found to have ordered an > internet shutdown. > > The ban would cover all government-owned entities and others that have a > "direct provable relationship with said government." It would also cover > any transfer of address space to those entities from others. > > That withdrawal of services would escalate if the country continued to > pull the plug on internet access. Under the proposal: "In the event of a > government performing three or more such shutdowns in a period of 10 years > ? all resources to the aforementioned entities shall be revoked and no > allocations to said entities shall occur for a period of 5 years." > > The proposal was sparked by a recent increase in the number of complete > nationwide shutdowns of internet service ? something that has been a cause > of increasing concern and ire within the internet infrastructure community. > The start > > The trend started during the Egyptian revolution back in 2011 when > authorities killed the entire's country web access > prior to > a big protest march. Employees of ISPs and mobile phone companies reported > troops turning up at their homes and pointing guns at their families in > order to enforce the shutdown. > > Until then, many governments had assumed it was largely impossible to turn > off internet access to their entire nation. Soon after, government > departments educated themselves about AS numbers and internet routing and > started using their power to set up systems that would allow them to order > the shutdown of all networks from a central point. > > While some countries only used this ability in the more dire circumstances > ? riots or terrorist attacks ? shutdowns quickly started being used > preemptively and for political reasons. > > Bangladesh switched off > > its entire country's net connectivity prior to the sentencing of former > government leaders for war crimes. Then Iraq started shutting down the > entire country for several hours at a time in order to prevent exam > cheating > > . > > While these were enormously frustrating, the shutdown typically lasted > only a few hours. But then Cameroon decided to cut off the internet for > weeks ? and targeted specific communities. The country's southwest and > northwest provinces were taken offline following violent protests: a > decision that had a hugely damaging impact on its "Silicon Mountain" > startup zone, and also took down its banks and ATMs. > > In India, the number and frequency of internet shutdowns has sparked a new protest > movement and website that tracks them. > > The situation has grown so dire that the United Nations got involved and officially > condemned > > the practice at a meeting of the Human Rights Council back in July. Despite > opposition from a number of countries ? including China, Russia, India and > Kenya ? a resolution passed forbidding mass web blockades. > Plan > > The reality, however, is that there is nothing to prevent governments from > shutting down the internet and very little anyone can do in the face of a > determined push from the authorities. > > But now the techies are fighting back. The Afrinic proposal has been put > forward by the CTO and the Head of IP strategy for Liquid > Telecommunications ? a large pan-African ISP ? as well as the CEO of > Kenya's main ISP Association. As such it is a proposal that many are taking > seriously. > > "While the authors of this policy acknowledge that what is proposed is > draconian in nature, we feel that the time has come for action to be taken, > rather than just bland statements that have shown to have little or no > effect," they wrote, noting that "over the last few years we have seen more > and more governments shutting down the free and open access to the internet > in order to push political and other agendas." > > Whether governments like it or not, they are reliant on the provision of > IP address to expand their networks and digital economy, and Afrinic is the > only organization that can realistically provide them. If the policy does > get passed, it would almost certainly act as a strong deterrent for > government ministers to shutting down internet access. > > But there are a wealth of problems with the idea, not least of which would > be the determination of what represents an internet shutdown. The authors > put forward a suggested definition: > > An internet shutdown is deemed to have occurred when it can be proved that > there was an attempt, failed or successful, to restrict access to the > internet to a segment of the population irrespective of the provider or > access medium that they utilize. > > That wording is likely to be very heavily scrutinized. And it would > require someone or group to make a determination that it has happened ? > which would likely become a politically charged decision. And none of that > considers the fact that national leaders are unlikely to accept punitive > terms being placed against them by a third party. > > In short, it is a huge political headache. But it may also be one that > only the internet community is capable to taking on and winning. The next > few months will see whether the 'net community in Africa is willing to take > on the challenge for the greater good. ? > > Sponsored: Continuous lifecycle London 2017 event. DevOps, continuous > delivery and containerisation. Register now > > _______________________________________________ > > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From silber.mike at gmail.com Thu Apr 13 21:26:29 2017 From: silber.mike at gmail.com (Mike Silber) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 23:26:29 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Who is the guarantor of AFRINIC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <11A0BCD1-8A71-470A-A6C2-4F4821C318E1@gmail.com> Where did I say I support Kieran? I simply indicated that the attempt to blame the policy authors for Kieran's errors is unwarranted. > On 13 Apr 2017, at 20:35, Tutu Ngcaba wrote: > > Hello Brother Mike Silber, > > That Kieren McCarthy Author writes mistakes that even in comments of that bad article about the Afrinic, people have redicule the Afrinic and you can see even the CEO of the Afrinic has made clarificarions to this McCarthy. > > Even the article title very misleading and call him well known. Maybe he should not write about the Afrinic anymore. This is bad image for our motherland. > > Someone even saying we will be like North Korea and such bad articles dont even give solution. African is a different place my brothers, let us solve our challengew ourselves. > > Why are you even supporting this McCarthy? > > Best Regards, > > Tutu Ngcaba > Kwazulu Techno Hubs > South Africa > > On 13 Apr 2017 9:21 p.m., "Mike Silber" wrote: > Arnaud > > Kieren McCarthy is a well known author and commentator on Internet issues. > > He follows various lists. > > This was a public policy proposal. Nothing to stop an external party from picking it up. > > So please don't impute the authors of the proposal just because someone wrote an article. > > Mike > >> On Thu, 13 Apr 2017 at 2:27 PM Arnaud AMELINA wrote: >> English : >> >> Dear member of the community, What is the aim of the authors and the initiators of this Article ??? >> >> Do they have the right to share a process that has not yet been adopted externally, still coming from a member of the Board of Afrinic, is unacceptable, is there no longer any limit In AFRINIC, that the different leaders take their respononsibilities and remind to the order the indelices >> >> The name AFRINIC has been engaged in this article, even though the subject in question has not yet ratified by the community of AFRINIC or the BOARD. >> >> >> French : >> Chers membre de la communaut?, Quel est le but vis? par les auteurs et les initiateurs de cet Article ??? >> Ont-il le droit de faire part d'un processus non encore adopt? ? l'ext?rieur, venant encore de la part d'un membre du Board d'Afrinic c'est innacceptable, n'y a-t-il plus de limite ? AFRINIC, que les diff?rents responsables prennent leurs respponsabilit?s et rappellent ? l'odre les ind?licats. >> >> Le nom d'AFRINIC a ?t? engag? dans cet article alors m?me que le sujet en question ne soit ratifi? par la communaut? d'AFRINIC ou par le BOARD. >> >> >> >> Data Centre Software Security Transformation DevOps Business Personal Tech Science Emergent Tech Bootnotes >> Data Centre >> >> >> Networks >> >> No more IP addresses for countries that shut down internet access >> >> Afrinic considers punitive policy for errant governments >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 12 Apr 2017 at 19:54, Kieren McCarthy >> Governments that cut off internet access to their citizens could find themselves refused new IP addresses under a proposal put forward by one of the five global IP allocation organizations. >> >> The suggested clampdown will be considered at the next meeting of internet registry Afrinic in Botswana in June: Afrinic is in charge of managing and allocating IP address blocks across Africa. >> >> Under the proposal, a new section would be added to Afrinic's official rules that would allow the organization to refuse to hand over any new IP address to a country for 12 months if it is found to have ordered an internet shutdown. >> >> The ban would cover all government-owned entities and others that have a "direct provable relationship with said government." It would also cover any transfer of address space to those entities from others. >> >> That withdrawal of services would escalate if the country continued to pull the plug on internet access. Under the proposal: "In the event of a government performing three or more such shutdowns in a period of 10 years ? all resources to the aforementioned entities shall be revoked and no allocations to said entities shall occur for a period of 5 years." >> >> The proposal was sparked by a recent increase in the number of complete nationwide shutdowns of internet service ? something that has been a cause of increasing concern and ire within the internet infrastructure community. >> >> The start >> >> The trend started during the Egyptian revolution back in 2011 when authorities killed the entire's country web access prior to a big protest march. Employees of ISPs and mobile phone companies reported troops turning up at their homes and pointing guns at their families in order to enforce the shutdown. >> >> Until then, many governments had assumed it was largely impossible to turn off internet access to their entire nation. Soon after, government departments educated themselves about AS numbers and internet routing and started using their power to set up systems that would allow them to order the shutdown of all networks from a central point. >> >> While some countries only used this ability in the more dire circumstances ? riots or terrorist attacks ? shutdowns quickly started being used preemptively and for political reasons. >> >> Bangladesh switched off its entire country's net connectivity prior to the sentencing of former government leaders for war crimes. Then Iraq started shutting down the entire country for several hours at a time in order to prevent exam cheating. >> >> While these were enormously frustrating, the shutdown typically lasted only a few hours. But then Cameroon decided to cut off the internet for weeks ? and targeted specific communities. The country's southwest and northwest provinces were taken offline following violent protests: a decision that had a hugely damaging impact on its "Silicon Mountain" startup zone, and also took down its banks and ATMs. >> >> In India, the number and frequency of internet shutdowns has sparked a new protest movement and website that tracks them. >> >> The situation has grown so dire that the United Nations got involved and officially condemned the practice at a meeting of the Human Rights Council back in July. Despite opposition from a number of countries ? including China, Russia, India and Kenya ? a resolution passed forbidding mass web blockades. >> >> Plan >> >> The reality, however, is that there is nothing to prevent governments from shutting down the internet and very little anyone can do in the face of a determined push from the authorities. >> >> But now the techies are fighting back. The Afrinic proposal has been put forward by the CTO and the Head of IP strategy for Liquid Telecommunications ? a large pan-African ISP ? as well as the CEO of Kenya's main ISP Association. As such it is a proposal that many are taking seriously. >> >> "While the authors of this policy acknowledge that what is proposed is draconian in nature, we feel that the time has come for action to be taken, rather than just bland statements that have shown to have little or no effect," they wrote, noting that "over the last few years we have seen more and more governments shutting down the free and open access to the internet in order to push political and other agendas." >> >> Whether governments like it or not, they are reliant on the provision of IP address to expand their networks and digital economy, and Afrinic is the only organization that can realistically provide them. If the policy does get passed, it would almost certainly act as a strong deterrent for government ministers to shutting down internet access. >> >> But there are a wealth of problems with the idea, not least of which would be the determination of what represents an internet shutdown. The authors put forward a suggested definition: >> >> An internet shutdown is deemed to have occurred when it can be proved that there was an attempt, failed or successful, to restrict access to the internet to a segment of the population irrespective of the provider or access medium that they utilize. >> That wording is likely to be very heavily scrutinized. And it would require someone or group to make a determination that it has happened ? which would likely become a politically charged decision. And none of that considers the fact that national leaders are unlikely to accept punitive terms being placed against them by a third party. >> >> In short, it is a huge political headache. But it may also be one that only the internet community is capable to taking on and winning. The next few months will see whether the 'net community in Africa is willing to take on the challenge for the greater good. ? >> >> Sponsored: Continuous lifecycle London 2017 event. DevOps, continuous delivery and containerisation. Register now >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From virtual.borg at gmail.com Fri Apr 14 03:45:48 2017 From: virtual.borg at gmail.com (Chevalier du Borg) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 07:45:48 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)" In-Reply-To: <81CA2818-9AFB-44AE-9321-A177033BA41A@hopcount.ca> References: <393565252.1179794.1491935741365.JavaMail.zimbra@ntc.gov.sd> <1524223421.1179814.1491936208065.JavaMail.zimbra@ntc.gov.sd> <6.2.5.6.2.20170411143235.0c802c28@elandnews.com> <982F53B7-987E-4B4B-A5A2-891E05706135@afrinic.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20170412121702.0e02d160@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20170412130450.0d855d90@elandnews.com> <5E251079-7184-4A9D-9572-C628509DB5D8@gmail.com> <89BA8993-784B-47BC-8746-E1EC2B723FC3@nftconsult.com> <81CA2818-9AFB-44AE-9321-A177033BA41A@hopcount.ca> Message-ID: 2017-04-13 18:37 GMT+04:00 Joe Abley : > However, I found Kieran's article to be pretty balanced and accurate. You can say that if you did not read the title and subtitle " No more IP addresses for countries that shut down internet accessAfrinic considers punitive policy for errant governments " By not making different between the community and the company, it is misleading. sensational liek fake news. i agree the content is ok, but is not excusable because of the title and subtitle. -- Borg le Chevalier ___________________________________ "Common sense is what tells us the world is flat" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jabley at hopcount.ca Fri Apr 14 04:01:05 2017 From: jabley at hopcount.ca (Joe Abley) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 00:01:05 -0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)" In-Reply-To: References: <393565252.1179794.1491935741365.JavaMail.zimbra@ntc.gov.sd> <1524223421.1179814.1491936208065.JavaMail.zimbra@ntc.gov.sd> <6.2.5.6.2.20170411143235.0c802c28@elandnews.com> <982F53B7-987E-4B4B-A5A2-891E05706135@afrinic.net> <6.2.5.6.2.20170412121702.0e02d160@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20170412130450.0d855d90@elandnews.com> <5E251079-7184-4A9D-9572-C628509DB5D8@gmail.com> <89BA8993-784B-47BC-8746-E1EC2B723FC3@nftconsult.com> <81CA2818-9AFB-44AE-9321-A177033BA41A@hopcount.ca> Message-ID: <8F23F901-86D7-45FA-B959-1BC8AC19C9E4@hopcount.ca> On 13 Apr 2017, at 23:45, Chevalier du Borg wrote: > 2017-04-13 18:37 GMT+04:00 Joe Abley : > However, I found Kieran's article to be pretty balanced and accurate. > > You can say that if you did not read the title and subtitle I guess we can just agree to disagree on that. Joe From dogwallah at gmail.com Fri Apr 14 00:06:50 2017 From: dogwallah at gmail.com (McTim) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 20:06:50 -0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Who is the guarantor of AFRINIC In-Reply-To: <11A0BCD1-8A71-470A-A6C2-4F4821C318E1@gmail.com> References: <11A0BCD1-8A71-470A-A6C2-4F4821C318E1@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 5:26 PM, Mike Silber wrote: > Where did I say I support Kieran? > > I simply indicated that the attempt to blame the policy authors for > Kieran's errors is unwarranted. > and the Register often has awful headlines that Kieran has no control over. If people are going to write proposals guaranteed to get media attention, we shouldn't be upset when the media gives attention! regards, McTim > > On 13 Apr 2017, at 20:35, Tutu Ngcaba wrote: > > Hello Brother Mike Silber, > > That Kieren McCarthy Author writes mistakes that even in comments of that > bad article about the Afrinic, people have redicule the Afrinic and you can > see even the CEO of the Afrinic has made clarificarions to this McCarthy. > > Even the article title very misleading and call him well known. Maybe he > should not write about the Afrinic anymore. This is bad image for our > motherland. > > Someone even saying we will be like North Korea and such bad articles dont > even give solution. African is a different place my brothers, let us solve > our challengew ourselves. > > Why are you even supporting this McCarthy? > > Best Regards, > > Tutu Ngcaba > Kwazulu Techno Hubs > South Africa > > On 13 Apr 2017 9:21 p.m., "Mike Silber" wrote: > > Arnaud > > Kieren McCarthy is a well known author and commentator on Internet issues. > > He follows various lists. > > This was a public policy proposal. Nothing to stop an external party from > picking it up. > > So please don't impute the authors of the proposal just because someone > wrote an article. > > Mike > > On Thu, 13 Apr 2017 at 2:27 PM Arnaud AMELINA wrote: > >> *English :* >> >> Dear member of the community, What is the aim of the authors and the >> initiators of this Article ??? >> >> Do they have the right to share a process that has not yet been adopted >> externally, still coming from a member of the Board of Afrinic, is >> unacceptable, is there no longer any limit In AFRINIC, that the >> different leaders take their respononsibilities and remind to the order the >> indelices >> >> The name AFRINIC has been engaged in this article, even though the >> subject in question has not yet ratified by the community of AFRINIC or the >> BOARD. >> >> >> *French :* >> Chers membre de la communaut?, Quel est le but vis? par les auteurs et >> les initiateurs de cet Article ??? >> Ont-il le droit de faire part d'un processus non encore adopt? ? >> l'ext?rieur, venant encore de la part d'un membre du Board d'Afrinic c'est >> innacceptable, n'y a-t-il plus de limite ? AFRINIC, que les diff?rents >> responsables prennent leurs respponsabilit?s et rappellent ? l'odre les >> ind?licats. >> >> Le nom d'AFRINIC a ?t? engag? dans cet article alors m?me que le sujet en >> question ne soit ratifi? par la communaut? d'AFRINIC ou par le BOARD. >> >> >> >> [image: Twitter] >> [image: >> Facebook] [image: G+] >> [image: LinkedIn] >> >> [image: Home] Data Centre >> Software >> Security >> Transformation >> DevOps >> Business >> Personal Tech >> Science >> Emergent Tech >> Bootnotes >> [image: search] >> >> Data Centre [image: Arrow] >> Networks >> No more IP addresses for countries that shut down internet access Afrinic >> considers punitive policy for errant governments >> [image: reddit] >> >> >> [image: Twitter] >> >> >> [image: Facebook] >> [image: linkedin] >> >> >> 12 Apr 2017 at 19:54, Kieren McCarthy >> >> >> Governments that cut off internet access to their citizens could find >> themselves refused new IP addresses under a proposal put forward by one of >> the five global IP allocation organizations. >> >> The suggested clampdown >> >> will be considered at the next meeting of internet registry Afrinic in >> Botswana in June: Afrinic is in charge of managing and allocating IP >> address blocks across Africa. >> >> Under the proposal, a new section would be added to Afrinic's official >> rules that would allow the organization to refuse to hand over any new IP >> address to a country for 12 months if it is found to have ordered an >> internet shutdown. >> >> The ban would cover all government-owned entities and others that have a >> "direct provable relationship with said government." It would also cover >> any transfer of address space to those entities from others. >> >> That withdrawal of services would escalate if the country continued to >> pull the plug on internet access. Under the proposal: "In the event of a >> government performing three or more such shutdowns in a period of 10 years >> ? all resources to the aforementioned entities shall be revoked and no >> allocations to said entities shall occur for a period of 5 years." >> >> The proposal was sparked by a recent increase in the number of complete >> nationwide shutdowns of internet service ? something that has been a cause >> of increasing concern and ire within the internet infrastructure community. >> The start >> >> The trend started during the Egyptian revolution back in 2011 when >> authorities killed the entire's country web access >> prior to >> a big protest march. Employees of ISPs and mobile phone companies reported >> troops turning up at their homes and pointing guns at their families in >> order to enforce the shutdown. >> >> Until then, many governments had assumed it was largely impossible to >> turn off internet access to their entire nation. Soon after, government >> departments educated themselves about AS numbers and internet routing and >> started using their power to set up systems that would allow them to order >> the shutdown of all networks from a central point. >> >> While some countries only used this ability in the more dire >> circumstances ? riots or terrorist attacks ? shutdowns quickly started >> being used preemptively and for political reasons. >> >> Bangladesh switched off >> >> its entire country's net connectivity prior to the sentencing of former >> government leaders for war crimes. Then Iraq started shutting down the >> entire country for several hours at a time in order to prevent exam >> cheating >> >> . >> >> While these were enormously frustrating, the shutdown typically lasted >> only a few hours. But then Cameroon decided to cut off the internet for >> weeks ? and targeted specific communities. The country's southwest and >> northwest provinces were taken offline following violent protests: a >> decision that had a hugely damaging impact on its "Silicon Mountain" >> startup zone, and also took down its banks and ATMs. >> >> In India, the number and frequency of internet shutdowns has sparked a >> new protest movement and website that >> tracks them. >> >> The situation has grown so dire that the United Nations got involved and officially >> condemned >> >> the practice at a meeting of the Human Rights Council back in July. Despite >> opposition from a number of countries ? including China, Russia, India and >> Kenya ? a resolution passed forbidding mass web blockades. >> Plan >> >> The reality, however, is that there is nothing to prevent governments >> from shutting down the internet and very little anyone can do in the face >> of a determined push from the authorities. >> >> But now the techies are fighting back. The Afrinic proposal has been put >> forward by the CTO and the Head of IP strategy for Liquid >> Telecommunications ? a large pan-African ISP ? as well as the CEO of >> Kenya's main ISP Association. As such it is a proposal that many are taking >> seriously. >> >> "While the authors of this policy acknowledge that what is proposed is >> draconian in nature, we feel that the time has come for action to be taken, >> rather than just bland statements that have shown to have little or no >> effect," they wrote, noting that "over the last few years we have seen more >> and more governments shutting down the free and open access to the internet >> in order to push political and other agendas." >> >> Whether governments like it or not, they are reliant on the provision of >> IP address to expand their networks and digital economy, and Afrinic is the >> only organization that can realistically provide them. If the policy does >> get passed, it would almost certainly act as a strong deterrent for >> government ministers to shutting down internet access. >> >> But there are a wealth of problems with the idea, not least of which >> would be the determination of what represents an internet shutdown. The >> authors put forward a suggested definition: >> >> An internet shutdown is deemed to have occurred when it can be proved >> that there was an attempt, failed or successful, to restrict access to the >> internet to a segment of the population irrespective of the provider or >> access medium that they utilize. >> >> That wording is likely to be very heavily scrutinized. And it would >> require someone or group to make a determination that it has happened ? >> which would likely become a politically charged decision. And none of that >> considers the fact that national leaders are unlikely to accept punitive >> terms being placed against them by a third party. >> >> In short, it is a huge political headache. But it may also be one that >> only the internet community is capable to taking on and winning. The next >> few months will see whether the 'net community in Africa is willing to take >> on the challenge for the greater good. ? >> >> Sponsored: Continuous lifecycle London 2017 event. DevOps, continuous >> delivery and containerisation. Register now >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > > _______________________________________________ > RPD mailing list > RPD at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pan.afrikhan at gmail.com Fri Apr 14 11:46:50 2017 From: pan.afrikhan at gmail.com (Tutu Ngcaba) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 14:46:50 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)" In-Reply-To: References: <393565252.1179794.1491935741365.JavaMail.zimbra@ntc.gov.sd> <1524223421.1179814.1491936208065.JavaMail.zimbra@ntc.gov.sd> <6.2.5.6.2.20170411143235.0c802c28@elandnews.com> <37162931.534123.1492011865130@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: My brothers happy Easter, The Afrinic CEO already discuss about the planning of the open discussion in the Nairobi at AIS conference. So my brothers let us discuss all open during this the meeting as our government officials will be there and our technology people too. The Afrinic can share more topics too about the challenges as some brothers here said the shuts cost economic damage. But you know also they governmemt can ask the private isp to give internet to the president. They government can even use the satelite like one project in our village. The satelite gives internet also from people from America so even if the Afrinic can implement such bad policy, the government will just laugh at the Afrinic. I know the government people can even use the 3G internet on their mobile. They can even ask the isp to give them NAT internet if the Afrinic is saying no IP address to the president office. The ISP will panic not to loose the license for ISP and it will make president office have internet. Like i make some research and in the country of North Korea they have strict internet and they get from the China. This is power of government when you want to use force to the government. Even in the UK i read the government there has the power to shuts the internet. So this topic only open discussion which involve our government can make aware that some impact if they shut but there ia other solutions if the governmment is afraid with national security due to the internet. Best Regards, Tutu Ngcaba Kwazulu Techno Hubs South Africa On 14 Apr 2017 12:39 p.m., "Andrew Alston" wrote: Hi Walu, Speaking as an individual?. It?s an interesting question ? though realistically ? there have been talks and proposals about ?national internet registries? for years ? and the ship has kind of sailed. Firstly ? with regards to v4 ? there are no resources to distribute to these national internet registries left ? and the only way that a national internet registry could be formed would be for them to get resources to allocate into such a registry ? and the AfriNIC policies currently don?t allow for it. Effectively, a policy proposal would have to come forward that allowed an entity to hold resources and allocate them within the rules of the allocation policy ? I don?t see any such thing occurring. Secondly ? it is very difficult for a government to force an organisation to give up already allocated space ? because again ? that would be a transfer of resources under the current policies ? and that can only happen in the case of mergers and acquisitions at the moment ? or in the case of an internal transfer which has to be agreed by both parties under the internal transfer policy. We have to remember, that AfriNIC is an independent organisation and external governments do not have legal jurisdiction ? not without treaties that would have to be ratified and the location where AfriNIC is domiciled would have to be a signatory to said treaties. At which point, it?s possible to switch jurisdictions. Yes ? I see a lot of noise coming from this ? but do I believe that governments can do more harm in that scenario than they are by shutting down the Internet? No ? not at all. There is simply no evidence or mechanism that exists for this to happen. And yes ? we know there are consequences ? but let us also look at the reverse side of the consequences ? to do nothing and have the internet shutdown ? how many people lose their jobs when ISP?s no longer have revenue coming in to pay those people? How much damage is done to the user on the ground when the internet is shut down? The stats are out that 2.4 billion dollars haemorrhaged out of economies due to shutdowns, what are the consequences of doing nothing in that regard? Everything has its pros and cons ? I simply argue that standing by and watch it happening with no concrete action, does far more harm than attempting to stand for what is right. *From:* Walubengo J [mailto:jwalu at yahoo.com] *Sent:* 12 April 2017 18:44 *To:* Andrew Alston ; Ars?ne Tungali < arsenebaguma at gmail.com>; Mukom Akong T. *Cc:* rpd at afrinic.net *Subject:* Re: [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)" @Andrew, I have no objection to attempts to reign in 'internet averse' governments. My worry is what will happen next if and after the policy passes? Most of us are aware of the ITU/ICANN tensions with respect to internet governance...will such a policy give impetus or reason for even the 'moderate' governments to finally have a tangible reason to push for and get their national or regional RIRs? Perhaps at the moment the effort and impetus to go national/regional RIRs has not gained traction simply because there has not been any thing substantive enough to rally the governments together for such a move. Could such a policy be the missing rallying call? After all no government would want to be told that they are offline because some "Company Ltd" based somewhere in the middle of the Indian Ocean has switched them off (no offence Kris, to the Star and Key of the Indian Ocean... just wearing the hat of some typical African dictator :-). In short, lets debate the policy, but remember as we say in contemporary Kenya - choices do have consequences. walu. ------------------------------ *From:* Andrew Alston *To:* Ars?ne Tungali ; Mukom Akong T. < mukom.tamon at gmail.com> *Cc:* "rpd at afrinic.net" *Sent:* Wednesday, April 12, 2017 5:52 PM *Subject:* Re: [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)" Hi Arsene, Your comments are well noted. Let me ask you however, as a compromise position, would you be willing to accept a situation where we limit this to the state, parastatals, and with the exclusion of academia and space that can be proved to belong to critical services (hospitals, emergency services etc). I?m not sure how we would word this in ? but I?d be quite willing to work with anyone who wants to try and have a bash at getting this wording out if you?re interested in looking at it from that perspective. We also need to consider the role of the regulator ? because often ? it is not the regulator who triggers these shutdowns ? it is above them that those orders come down from. As a matter of fact, I am quite proud to see that I have seen one regulator so far stand up on this list and SUPPORT this proposal ? it surprised me and I congratulate and thank them for standing for their convictions, that really made me a very happy man to see. I?d love to see more comments from regulators in this discussion about this ? there are many on this list ? and let?s hope they are prepared to come and give their views, either for or against, and explain WHY their views are what they are. Let us approach this in the spirit of discussion and the spirit of finding the RIGHT solution. If that is an edit of the current policy or a total re-draft ? either way is acceptable. I think the point here is ? I believe there needs to be something more than statements as you have said ? there need to be consequences for actions such as these ? how those consequences are directed and applied is a very wide debate ? and I think it?s one we should all deeply engage in. That however an opinion ? there are others who feel that the neutrality of the internet organizations is sacrosanct and we should stay out of it ? and on a personal level and not speaking for anyone else, or any other entity, I acknowledge those views ? I choose however to disagree with that stance. What I am seeing so far from the discussions, is that there seems to be general agreement on the fact that there is a problem ? so the problem statement of rogue states and shutdowns is real ? the debate then is how we do something about it ? so, open to ideas, and once again, open to co-authors Andrew *From:* Ars?ne Tungali [mailto:arsenebaguma at gmail.com ] *Sent:* 12 April 2017 17:14 *To:* Mukom Akong T. *Cc:* rpd at afrinic.net *Subject:* Re: [rpd] New Policy Proposal - "Anti-Shutdown (AFPUB-2017-GEN-001-DRAFT-01)" Hi everyone, Internet shutdowns is a topic that I am interested in so much and have been involved in research, drafting statements sent to government officials, have spoken in various avenues and have written pieces for websites, blogs, journals, etc. I consider myself being an advocate of an open and accessible internet to all. I am opposed to any form of disruption over the network including Internet shutdown whatever the reason. For those of us who have little knowledge on this, I would suggest two links: - One which is a report on the State of Internet freedoms in DRC (my country): http://cipesa.org/?wpfb_dl=234 - And a blogpost I recently wrote for CIPESA on the same issue: http://cipesa.org/2017/03/the-evolution-of-internet-shutdowns-in-dr-congo/ I am also a believer that we need concrete actions (more than just statements) to help our governments understand that for no reason, they should shutdown the Internet. In DRC, we are at 4% Internet penetration, yet we have experienced Internet shutdown more than 4 times, being one of those African countries that have been seriously touched (Cameroon is now leading). And we felt the effect of being disconnected to all communications including SMS, Internet, etc. It is harmful! I was one of those who sent praises to AFRINIC for issuing a statement condemning Internet shutdowns and I am glad as a community, we have been thinking on some practical measures that will, hopefully, force our government to no longer consider Internet shutdown whenever they are trying to hide something. I would like to congratulate the authors of this proposal but I am not yet in support of the measures they have suggested because, to sum up my point here, *this will cause so much damage to those entities that will not benefit from resources though they are not associated with the decision (which is a Gov decision most of the times) to shutdown the Internet*. I note so many other people including Seun have mentioned this in this thread. After reading the proposal, I have the following comment which are leading my worry in supporting this proposal as it is: *We need measures that will only affect the entity ordering the shutdown (the Government then the Regulator). In my country for example, it is the Regulator who is executing an order that came from the Gov. If we decide to not deliver resources to other entities (Schools, research centers, etc), be they related to the Gov, we will be doing more bad to them as they will simply be victims.* I am glad the authors are all from ISPs (if I am not mistaken), which is a good sign. In this debate across Africa, there were close to no statement or action from ISPs with regards to Internet shutdown though they are the ones executing, in most cases, the decision to turn it off, a request they receive from the Regulator. In most cases, they have no means to say no given the fact that they have signed an agreement (MoU) with the Gov to abide by any request from the Gov including network disruptions (this is applicable in DRC as per the report I previously shared). I do believe there is more ISPs can help with in the battle against Government ordered shutdowns and if something like this can be added to this policy, that will be helpful. One of the possibilities are to engage the Gov. in a win-win discussion. You guys are doing business with the Gov. and you lose money whenever there is shutdown. There is a way you can find an agreement with the Gov. and discuss the fact that you cannot continue losing money when there is no appealing reason to shutdown the Internet. We have ISPs as AFRINIC members, this is something they can think of and come up with a proposal (with the support of the community). If ever this proposal goes further, I would suggest these measures to ONLY affect the Regulator (not sure if they are also members of AFRINIC but they might) rather than any entity owned or related to/by the Government. We will be doing more harm than good. Thanks, Arsene ------------------------ **Ars?ne Tungali** Co-Founder & Executive Director, *Rudi international *, CEO,* Smart Services Sarl *, *Mabingwa Forum * Tel: +243 993810967 <+243%20993%20810%20967> GPG: 523644A0 *Goma, Democratic Republic of Congo* 2015 Mandela Washington Felllow (YALI) - ISOC Ambassador (IGF Brazil & Mexico ) - AFRISIG 2016 - Blogger - ICANN Fellow (Los Angeles & Marrakech ). AFRINIC Fellow (Mauritius )* - *IGFSA Member - Internet Governance - Internet Freedom. Check the 2016 State of Internet Freedom in DRC report 2017-04-12 15:20 GMT+02:00 Mukom Akong T. : **wearing NO hat** On 12 April 2017 at 14:02, Barrack Otieno wrote: Hi Mukom, Understood, i raised this point because i am aware of the fact that it has not been easy to get the Afrinic Government working group going and this could be a great area of engaging this group since most of the shutdowns can be attributed to lack of knowledge by key actors and sheer ignorance. The job of building capacity with governments is important and definitely will continue - not just from AFRINIC, but also from other stake-holders - irrespective of the outcome of this proposal. But that's a side issue. As a key stakeholder it would be great idea to include them in this conversation. I don't see any attempt to exclude them. The AFRINIC PDP is open to all. Each and every person that has ever been to the AFGWG knows about this mailing list and how to take part in it. I'm hoping that they are following and we'll be seeing contributions from them soon (some already have responded) My point was that there's no room in the PDP for the community to wait ad-infinitum for a response from them. The proposal is well intentioned but the outcome might be in the interest of proponents of Internet shutdowns. It would greatly enhance this discussion if you could state how this will be in their interest. -- Mukom Akong T. LinkedIn:Mukom | twitter: @perfexcellent ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------ ?When you work, you are the FLUTE through whose lungs the whispering of the hours turns to MUSIC" - Kahlil Gibran ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------- _______________________________________________ RPD mailing list RPD at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd _______________________________________________ RPD mailing list RPD at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd _______________________________________________ RPD mailing list RPD at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From virtual.borg at gmail.com Fri Apr 14 16:41:36 2017 From: virtual.borg at gmail.com (Chevalier du Borg) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 20:41:36 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC? In-Reply-To: References: <9E1E8054-8863-4A9A-BE89-8F838025CC98@wacren.net> Message-ID: AfriNIC is an Internet Registry It has vision: "Be the leading force in growing the internet for Africa's sustainable development" AfriNIC can start to the gather concrete accurate data on such shutdown of Internet. Compiling this data is not political and is most credible way it can contribute to the debate. I will hope that in board elections, any candidate from such government run ISP who stand will not be voted for. More important, AfriNIC leadership (board, CEO) must engage and speak out against (diplomatic language) such repression at high level event on the continent. 2017-04-13 19:59 GMT+04:00 Tutu Ngcaba : > Dear Brother Folayan > > Yes this is the best way as we can not fight our governments. We can only > engage them through all channels available like AFGWG and others. > > The Afrinic CEO already promised he shall organise open discussions at the > AIS which is fantastic initial progress on how to go about this issue. > > We welcome all the initiatives that shall promote open dialogue and > awareness. > > We should also reach out to different ISOC chapters in our countries and > even ISOC day is another avenue to discuss such concerning matters. > > Best Regards, > > Tutu Ngcaba > Kwazulu Techno Hubs > South Africa > > On 13 Apr 2017 6:11 p.m., "Sunday Folayan" wrote: > >> Colleagues, >> >> This is a very reasonable proposition, consistent with the principles >> that guide us. >> >> I shall bring it to the attention of the Board, to explore ways that >> AFRINIC through the AfGWG can galvanize our engagement with Governments for >> the common good. >> >> Best. >> Sunday Folayan. >> >> On 13/04/2017 14:30, Noah wrote: >> >> Hi Omo >> >> Yes I would rather AFRINIC engaged all stakeholder including in members >> and setup say a panel of different stakeholders to deliberate this issue in >> a multistakeholder platform. >> >> Which is why i was of the opinion that in the upcoming AIS meeting, the >> issue be added to the AFRINIC agenda. >> >> This is a much better approach for such a non-technical issue. Because >> even when we carefully examine the motive behind internet shutdowns and >> censorship, its so complicated for a mere policy to even offer a lasting >> solution and different government have had different reasons for taking >> such measures. >> >> So AFRINIC engaging the community at large and governments through AFGWG >> we can find solutions and Seun also shared some practical ideas.... >> >> Noah >> >> On 13 Apr 2017 2:17 p.m., "Omo Oaiya" wrote: >> >>> +1. A practical approach that could yield good results. Last thing we >>> want Afrinic to do is to complicate the situation with empty rhetoric and >>> make an already bad situation worse. >>> >>> Omo >>> >>> On 13 Apr 2017, at 12:11, Noah wrote: >>> >>> Hi Seun, >>> >>> Indeed Tutu has raise some great pointers and in addition to your >>> centiments, i am of the view this kind of approach is more fruitful ref: >>> internet shutdowns and censorship. >>> >>> I suppose AFRINIC has been in the past engaging governments through the >>> AFGWG and i would be keep to get some insights from AFRINIC regarding the >>> same. >>> >>> Meanwhile, could AFRINIC organise a BoF during the upcoming meeting >>> where all those who will be on the ground can discuss some of these >>> pertinent issues openly. We could have a panel discussion and discuss this >>> issue way better. >>> >>> AFRINIC could also invite some of the government officials and other >>> internet leaders to this kind of BoF. >>> >>> I believe a BoF is one way for AFRINIC to be proactive in engaging the >>> wider community. >>> >>> Also we could get folk from countries where the internet has ever been >>> disconnected including cameroon to share more ideas on how to approach this >>> issue. >>> >>> Noah >>> >>> >>> On 13 Apr 2017 12:24 p.m., "Seun Ojedeji" >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Dear Community, >>> >>> Tutu raises a critical point and I also strongly agree that we should >>> let this discussion live on. >>> >>> AFRINIC sure presently have provided various avenues to engage >>> government and as i think there seem to be a slow but steady improvement in >>> govt participation. I wonder how AFRINIC can futher leverage on this to >>> drive down the point about why government needs to stop considering a >>> shutdown of internet or certain service as an option. May be good to hear >>> from staff how participation of the AFGWG has been so far - especially to >>> try to identify challenges to participation and how to resolve them. >>> >>> One other thing that comes to mind is whether AFRINIC can be pro-active >>> instead of re-active i.e they are made aware of the planned act and issue >>> strong statement against it hoping that it will get to the ears of relevant >>> authorities and get them to reconsider. This may also be effective if the >>> relationship between AFRINIC and the AU (and regional bodies like ECOWAS, >>> EAC, COMESA etc) is strengthened as that can serve as a channel of >>> communication to the respective governments. >>> >>> That said, I will like to pause on the role of AFRINIC as it also seem >>> to me that the role of ISPs is quite critical in this. Traffic distribution >>> structure/topology varies by countries hence there is some level of >>> dependencies that would exist and I wonder if ISPs can leverage upon that >>> as well. Also there are situations where government would ask for shutdown >>> of certain services of the internet(like social media) so connectivity >>> still exist to reduce the outcry, perhaps in those cases, ISPs could also >>> make it clear that its either a total shutdown or nothing and then hope >>> that the country's community/citizens will notice and be loud enough to get >>> government to change their order. >>> >>> Just a few ideas i thought I should throw in here since we seem to have >>> an understanding as a community that an RIR policy cannot be a way to >>> address this very important issue. >>> >>> Regards >>> On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 9:31 AM, Tutu Ngcaba >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Dear the Afrinic Ltd, >>>> >>>> Since you put out a statement a few days ago condemning internet >>>> shutdown problem which is a serious issue. >>>> >>>> Can you please take this issue up and drive it. I request that the >>>> Afrinic shall and should make this as an angenda topic also in meetings to >>>> come. >>>> >>>> We should also involve all isoc chapters in all our countries. >>>> >>>> We can discuss the internet shutdown under the Africann and community >>>> mailing list and engage all members but not through policy. >>>> >>>> This will make the statement the Afrinic made as about shutdown as the >>>> main agenda and even we use avenues like the Afrinic AFGWG. >>>> >>>> Multistake holder meeting is also important for engaging our >>>> governements. >>>> >>>> So i believe we can all take this discussion to community and Africann >>>> mailing list and the Afrinic can engage the people. >>>> >>>> This way we can get all concerned african people together and find >>>> wiser ways of engaging our governments. >>>> >>>> Most African country economy depend on agriculture and not Internet. So >>>> internet is nothing to governments when they chose to shutdown temporaly >>>> since to them shutdown has only small term economic impact that is why some >>>> do it in most cases to contain chaos or riots. >>>> >>>> Let us keep in mind that some countries presidents are in power for so >>>> many years and the government can do anything. >>>> >>>> So simple questions like why do some governments do it are important. >>>> >>>> Awareness and education is more important not policy. >>>> >>>> Best Regards, >>>> >>>> Tutu Ngcaba >>>> Kwazulu Techno Hubs >>>> South Africa >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> RPD mailing list >>>> RPD at afrinic.net >>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *Seun Ojedeji, Federal University Oye-Ekiti web: >>> http://www.fuoye.edu.ng Mobile: +2348035233535 **alt >>> email: seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng >>> * >>> >>> Bringing another down does not take you up - think about your action! >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Community-Discuss mailing list >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Community-Discuss mailing list >>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >>> >>> >>> >>> ? >>> Omo Oaiya >>> CTO/Directeur Technique, WACREN >>> Mobile: +234 806 4522778 <+234%20806%20452%202778>, +221 784 305 224 >>> Skype: kodion >>> http://www.wacren.net >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Community-Discuss mailing list >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > -- Borg le Chevalier ___________________________________ "Common sense is what tells us the world is flat" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From virtual.borg at gmail.com Fri Apr 14 17:15:39 2017 From: virtual.borg at gmail.com (Chevalier du Borg) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 21:15:39 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 2017-04-13 13:21 GMT+04:00 Seun Ojedeji : > I wonder how AFRINIC can futher leverage on this to drive down the point > about why government needs to stop considering a shutdown of internet or > certain service as an option. > You think this logic will make sense to the brain of a dictator? - not sure, unless there is legal system in place to stop that. Therefore AfriNIC may consider a longtime plan to make sure right laws exist in each country to prohibit shutdown. Yes, it will take long time and lot of -- capacity building -- lobbying (more work for board) -- hand-holding like writing draft bills or policy paper for lawmakers. -- have many regular conferences in Africa about this shutdowns > One other thing that comes to mind is whether AFRINIC can be pro-active > instead of re-active i.e they are made aware of the planned act and issue > strong statement against it hoping that it will get to the ears of relevant > authorities and get them to reconsider. This may also be effective if the > relationship between AFRINIC and the AU (and regional bodies like ECOWAS, > EAC, COMESA etc) is strengthened as that can serve as a channel of > communication to the respective governments. > These body are key, including other like Mo Ibrahim Foundation. They know the politique better than AfriNIC can. What AfriNIC can do better than all of them is provide fact/measure/data to back up shutdowns, then work with organisation like UNECA or World Bank to quantitate cost of these shutdown. This must be War, not battle and let see board show some leadership here that is strategic. AfriNIC cannot just be like IBM that sell computers to Hitler and claim "we are not getting involve in politics" -- Borg le Chevalier ___________________________________ "Common sense is what tells us the world is flat" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dewole at forum.org.ng Fri Apr 14 21:10:53 2017 From: dewole at forum.org.ng (Dewole Ajao) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 22:10:53 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3F895812-D192-4D6F-8F21-E3D7F66F6297@forum.org.ng> Give this Borg a pint on me! The AFRINIC board (whose members are domiciled in different parts of the continent) is already strategically positioned to drive some of the hand-holding and lobbying that is needed. Can we update the Terms of Reference for board members to reflect same and measure impact on a fairly regular basis? Just to make sure it is acted on. Regards, Dewole ? (wearing no hats at all) Sent from a mobile device. Please excuse typos and autocorrect strangeness. > On 14 Apr 2017, at 6:15 PM, Chevalier du Borg wrote: > > > 2017-04-13 13:21 GMT+04:00 Seun Ojedeji : >> I wonder how AFRINIC can futher leverage on this to drive down the point about why government needs to stop considering a shutdown of internet or certain service as an option. > > > You think this logic will make sense to the brain of a dictator? - not sure, unless there is legal system in place to stop that. Therefore AfriNIC may consider a longtime plan to make sure right laws exist in each country to prohibit shutdown. Yes, it will take long time and lot of > > -- capacity building > -- lobbying (more work for board) > -- hand-holding like writing draft bills or policy paper for lawmakers. > -- have many regular conferences in Africa about this shutdowns > > >> One other thing that comes to mind is whether AFRINIC can be pro-active instead of re-active i.e they are made aware of the planned act and issue strong statement against it hoping that it will get to the ears of relevant authorities and get them to reconsider. This may also be effective if the relationship between AFRINIC and the AU (and regional bodies like ECOWAS, EAC, COMESA etc) is strengthened as that can serve as a channel of communication to the respective governments. > > > These body are key, including other like Mo Ibrahim Foundation. They know the politique better than AfriNIC can. What AfriNIC can do better than all of them is provide fact/measure/data to back up shutdowns, then work with organisation like UNECA or World Bank to quantitate cost of these shutdown. > > > This must be War, not battle and let see board show some leadership here that is strategic. AfriNIC cannot just be like IBM that sell computers to Hitler and claim "we are not getting involve in politics" > > > -- > Borg le Chevalier > ___________________________________ > "Common sense is what tells us the world is flat" > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com Fri Apr 14 21:39:05 2017 From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 21:39:05 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC? In-Reply-To: <3F895812-D192-4D6F-8F21-E3D7F66F6297@forum.org.ng> References: <3F895812-D192-4D6F-8F21-E3D7F66F6297@forum.org.ng> Message-ID: Now, that?s an interesting question, and personally ? speaking in my own capacity ? I would have no objection to it. But it raises a question ? and its one I?ve been debating at length online with multiple people. AfriNIC ? completely neutral technical body AfriNIC ? political organisation with a technical function AfriNIC ? A hybrid of both of the above? Because that impacts how we view things ? and it impacts the role that the organisation should be playing. Much of the debate about the recent anti-shutdown proposal actually goes to these fundamental questions as well ? what is the role of an RIR ? or other technical organisation in the more political aspects of the Internet ? and what is the role of the RIR in taking stances on things like the abuse of rights and other such issues. It?s a fascinating and complex issue and I think it?s one well worth debating ? and the outcome of said debate would have heavy influence on what was proposed below. So ? for the sake of debate ? On one hand ? if we claim to be a purely technical organisation ? do we have a moral and ethical responsibility to get involved at all ? or is our responsibility to get involved purely based on what is in the best interests of our members (since internet shutdowns hurt the members of AfriNIC ? it could be argued that taking stance and fighting against such is actually necessary for the protection of the members and hence the protection of the organisation). On the other hand ? are we already an organisation with heavy political leanings and hence should accept that and embrace the role which we may have inadvertently created for ourselves. To analyse this ? let us look at some history Prior to AfriNIC ? space was gained by AfriNIC organisations from elsewhere ? it was a working system ? but politics dictated that Africa should have its own registry ? and before anyone gets upset ? I believe that?s a good thing ? and I strongly stand by the fact that Africa DID need its own registry ? but not for technical reasons ? it *was* a political move. Then if we look at the RIR?s role in the transition recently ? those roles were again not the roles of technical bodies ? they were political in nature ? albeit politics directly related to internet resources. If we look at how AfriNIC appoints its board ? it is a political process ? elections are held ? lobbying is done ? and we cannot deny the politics involved in that If we look at how process is formed ? again ? to find consensus ? lobbying is done ? negotiations are had ? and as has been pointed out on the floor during open microphone ? politics and divides come into play even in that process ? when people stop looking at the process and start looking at the people and the authors ? which is sad ? but it is a reality. So ? if the above points DO indicate that we have a political role ? then yes ? we need to embrace that role and the lobbying and the stances that accompany it ? but in doing so ? we need to acknowledge what we are embracing. Personally ? I lean towards the fact that in many ways ? RIR?s DO have a political function ? as much as we attempt to stay neutral ? and that growth dictates that we embrace all that we are and that we accept all sides of our nature and the responsibilities that come with those aspects. But it is a debate I would LOVE to hear more input on ? what is the view of the community ? of the members. AfriNIC has been around for more than a decade now ? I believe we are ready to look deeply and introspectively and start to ask as a community ? what are ALL the aspects of this organisation and how do we deal with all the aspects of what we have become? Looking forward to hearing the thoughts and opinions of all Thanks Andrew From: Dewole Ajao [mailto:dewole at forum.org.ng] Sent: 15 April 2017 00:11 To: Chevalier du Borg Cc: General discussion of AFRINIC Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC? Give this Borg a pint on me! The AFRINIC board (whose members are domiciled in different parts of the continent) is already strategically positioned to drive some of the hand-holding and lobbying that is needed. Can we update the Terms of Reference for board members to reflect same and measure impact on a fairly regular basis? Just to make sure it is acted on. Regards, Dewole ? (wearing no hats at all) Sent from a mobile device. Please excuse typos and autocorrect strangeness. On 14 Apr 2017, at 6:15 PM, Chevalier du Borg > wrote: 2017-04-13 13:21 GMT+04:00 Seun Ojedeji >: I wonder how AFRINIC can futher leverage on this to drive down the point about why government needs to stop considering a shutdown of internet or certain service as an option. You think this logic will make sense to the brain of a dictator? - not sure, unless there is legal system in place to stop that. Therefore AfriNIC may consider a longtime plan to make sure right laws exist in each country to prohibit shutdown. Yes, it will take long time and lot of -- capacity building -- lobbying (more work for board) -- hand-holding like writing draft bills or policy paper for lawmakers. -- have many regular conferences in Africa about this shutdowns One other thing that comes to mind is whether AFRINIC can be pro-active instead of re-active i.e they are made aware of the planned act and issue strong statement against it hoping that it will get to the ears of relevant authorities and get them to reconsider. This may also be effective if the relationship between AFRINIC and the AU (and regional bodies like ECOWAS, EAC, COMESA etc) is strengthened as that can serve as a channel of communication to the respective governments. These body are key, including other like Mo Ibrahim Foundation. They know the politique better than AfriNIC can. What AfriNIC can do better than all of them is provide fact/measure/data to back up shutdowns, then work with organisation like UNECA or World Bank to quantitate cost of these shutdown. This must be War, not battle and let see board show some leadership here that is strategic. AfriNIC cannot just be like IBM that sell computers to Hitler and claim "we are not getting involve in politics" -- Borg le Chevalier ___________________________________ "Common sense is what tells us the world is flat" _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alan.barrett at afrinic.net Sat Apr 15 09:14:45 2017 From: alan.barrett at afrinic.net (Alan Barrett) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 10:14:45 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC? In-Reply-To: References: <3F895812-D192-4D6F-8F21-E3D7F66F6297@forum.org.ng> Message-ID: <2306779C-F512-444B-A74A-C2975FED2A61@afrinic.net> > On 14 Apr 2017, at 22:39, Andrew Alston wrote: > > But it raises a question ? and its one I?ve been debating at length online with multiple people. > > AfriNIC ? completely neutral technical body > AfriNIC ? political organisation with a technical function > AfriNIC ? A hybrid of both of the above? > > Because that impacts how we view things ? and it impacts the role that the organisation should be playing. AFRINIC?s goals are stated in section 3.4 of the Bylaws My summary is that AFRINIC has a dual mandate, to allocate and register Internet number resources, and to promote the development of the Internet, focusing on Africa but not ignoring the rest of the world. Alan Barrett From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com Sat Apr 15 14:15:21 2017 From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 14:15:21 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC? In-Reply-To: <2306779C-F512-444B-A74A-C2975FED2A61@afrinic.net> References: <3F895812-D192-4D6F-8F21-E3D7F66F6297@forum.org.ng> <2306779C-F512-444B-A74A-C2975FED2A61@afrinic.net> Message-ID: Hi Alan, Thanks ? that?s actually a very useful reference ? particularly if we dig into it deeper: 3.4 The Company shall have, both within and outside the Republic of Mauritius, full capacity to carry and/or undertake any business or activity, including but not limited to the following objects: (i) to provide the service of allocating and registering Internet resources for the purposes of enabling communications via open system network protocols and to assist in the development and growth of the Internet in the African region; (ii) to promote the representation of AFRINIC membership and the Internet community of the African region by ensuring open and transparent communication and consensus-driven decision-making processes; (iii) to promote responsible management of Internet resources throughout the African region, as well as the responsible development and operation of Internet infrastructures; (iv) to provide educational opportunities to the public so as to increase understanding within African communities of Internet technical and policy issues; (v) to propose and take such steps as are necessary to promote the development of public policies in the best interest of members and to seek legislative and regulatory consideration, whether by way of meetings or representations, of issues of general benefit to the members, where and when appropriate; (vi) to develop and promote technical and business practice standards related to Internet service provision to members; (vii) to disseminate among its members information on all matters affecting the Company and its members and to provide for and be a central channel of communication for the members of the Company and generally for the furtherance and promotion of their interests; (viii) to cultivate and obtain reciprocal relations with kindred institutions; and (ix) to do all other things incidental or conducive to the attainment of all or any of the objects of the Company. My reading of the above is as follows ? and I?d love to hear other thoughts and comments on these: Clause (i) is pretty much technical in nature ? which talks to the technical function of AfriNIC Clause (ii) I would say is a little more vague ? though rather than speak to mandate it speaks to mechanism Clause (iii) I would say is now starting to enter into the political realm and starts getting murky ? because the word responsible is open to interpretation ? and in my time in this industry I have seen both providers and states argue about what responsible is in many different ways. Even when it comes to the debate about net neutrality ? I have seen providers argue that shaping one thing over another is the ?responsible? decision. So I?d say that?s very very open to interpretation. Clause (iv) is even more interesting ? the technical issues are simple ? and isn?t really open to much interpretation ? what is technical fact is technical fact. However ? the understanding of policy is another story ? because the effects of policy and the interpretation of policy becomes a very political issue. Policies aren?t cut and try. Clause (v) is in my view clearly in the political realm ? it speaks to lobbying ? and that means taking partisan positions ? and it speaks to doing it in political forums. I would argue that in the debate about the anti-shutdown policy we sit firmly in the domain of 3.4.(v) based on what it says there ? a political issue where we are now taking a stance. The only question is how strong a stance can we take ? is it purely a matter of lobbying or can we take a carrot and stick approach (I would argue that we are not precluded from creating a policy that does have a stick attached to it by anything in 3.4 ? again though ? open to hearing interpretations) Clause (vi) concerns me ? I am not sure that any RIR should be involved in the creation of business process ? though I would also say it is not something we have ever engaged in. Business process is different from company to company, country to country ? but its perhaps another thing we need to debate amongst the community Clause (vii) is stock standard corporate best practice Clause (viii) is just sensible ? Clause (ix) though is *REALLY* interesting when taken into account with 3.4.(v) because it opens the door ? 3.4.(v) I would argue puts us deep in the political realm ? and 3.4.(ix) in combination allows us to extend that to using the stick proposed. As I said though ? these are my interpretations of the various clauses ? and I?m really hoping to see some more debate about this from the community at large. Let?s discuss ? and truly understand ourselves and our nature and our bylaws. Thanks Andrew On 15/04/2017, 12:14, "Alan Barrett" wrote: > On 14 Apr 2017, at 22:39, Andrew Alston wrote: > > But it raises a question ? and its one I?ve been debating at length online with multiple people. > > AfriNIC ? completely neutral technical body > AfriNIC ? political organisation with a technical function > AfriNIC ? A hybrid of both of the above? > > Because that impacts how we view things ? and it impacts the role that the organisation should be playing. AFRINIC?s goals are stated in section 3.4 of the Bylaws My summary is that AFRINIC has a dual mandate, to allocate and register Internet number resources, and to promote the development of the Internet, focusing on Africa but not ignoring the rest of the world. Alan Barrett _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss From sm+afrinic at elandsys.com Sat Apr 15 14:38:58 2017 From: sm+afrinic at elandsys.com (sm+afrinic at elandsys.com) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 07:38:58 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC? In-Reply-To: References: <3F895812-D192-4D6F-8F21-E3D7F66F6297@forum.org.ng> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20170414144659.0cc553e8@elandnews.com> Hi Andrew, At 14:39 14-04-2017, Andrew Alston wrote: >But it raises a question ? annd its one I've >been debating at length online with multiple people. > >AfriNIC ? completely neutral ttechnical body >AfriNIC ? political organisation with a technical function >AfriNIC ? A hybrid of both of thhe above? > >Because that impacts how we view things ? and it >impacts the role that the organisation shoould be playing. Afrinic is responsible for the distribution of number resources. It is a company with a policy function. The recent debate is about whether a RIR can take back the resources of a government because of a political decision of that government. >So ? for the sake of debate ? I did not receive any reply from the president of the local ISOC chapter when I asked about internet shutdowns. There hasn't been much interest in the human rights issues during that debate. Three companies in the region participated in the recent debate. There weren't any comments from organizations with an interest in human rights. I'll conclude that there aren't any organizations in the region which are interested in that. If Afrinic directors claim to speak about the internet for this region, the company will have to decide whether it has the moral and ethical responsibility to get involved in internet-related issues affecting the users in the region. Some of those internet-related issues are political, e.g. a government blocked internet access to content from the opposition. Regards, S. Moonesamy From mangawilly at gmail.com Sat Apr 15 16:37:49 2017 From: mangawilly at gmail.com (Willy MANGA) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 17:37:49 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi , (speaking in my own capacity) Le 13/04/2017 ? 10:21, Seun Ojedeji a ?crit : > > > Dear Community, > >[...] > One other thing that comes to mind is whether AFRINIC can be pro-active > instead of re-active i.e they are made aware of the planned act and issue > strong statement against it hoping that it will get to the ears of relevant > authorities and get them to reconsider. This may also be effective if the > relationship between AFRINIC and the AU (and regional bodies like ECOWAS, > EAC, COMESA etc) is strengthened as that can serve as a channel of > communication to the respective governments. From my personal understanding whatever is the motivation behind the shutdown, some states act like that because they see the Internet as something very strange and dangerous because they do not have the *full* control. I use to compare it to people who have not followed any life-saving class. When there is fire, they are afraid and run about instead of following safety instructions. Many don't know at all (or they are realizing a little bit) what the Internet is. It's usual to see people who compare Internet to some social networks for instance. Many people don't know that social networks is a fraction of the web which itself is a fraction of the Internet. (You should thank some big players for their marketing here; they did it best unfortunately) Internet does/should not belong to any entity,individual. Here is the biggest issue for any state. They look for ways to gain more and more control. Those who do not master the keys of their national infrastructure cut all or a part of the services. Those who master all their infrastructure capture traffic,analyse it and decide on how to proceed with that data. In Africa we are generally on the first case. Whatever the case, this issue should be addressed to ICANN in my humble opinion. AFRINIC can discuss it within ASO. Moreover on a continental level, in addition to what Seun has suggested above in order to help them better understand what is this ?beast?, I think they need more capacity building training at different levels (technical,administrative,..) and on various topics. We all know that these trainings exist but they should continue. I read that their participation within AfGWG was low; we should help our States understand that they have to really participate, give their opinions and discuss. Their low participation contribute a little bit to the situation where you see a proposal emerge within the community on whether or not AFRINIC should take some actions when an internet shutdown occurs. At last, I'm not convinced that international pressure will always be the better solution (or even the solution). Most of us here are citizen of a country in Africa. Those who participate here are very aware of the importance of the Internet. We should push forward debate (and actions) in our respective country on these issue. It's not easy at all, trust me (speaking for my country) but that should be the way forward. We have to be responsible at all our different levels and help our national ecosystem grow because we cannot evolve if we do not study/contribute to RFC, deploy root servers system, build IXP, use IPv6, sign our zones, ... If we do not understand and contribute on all that matters we will always run about when we'll have the feeling that ?the danger? comes from the Internet. The solutions should come *at first* from the citizen, entities of each country. -- Willy Manga freenode: ongolaBoy Ubuntu Cameroonian Loco Team https://launchpad.net/~manga-willy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 819 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From mirriamlauren at yahoo.com Sat Apr 15 17:12:21 2017 From: mirriamlauren at yahoo.com (Mirriam) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 17:12:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1449677016.920211.1492276341617@mail.yahoo.com> >>On 15/04/2017, 12:14, "Alan Barrett" wrote: ? ? >> On 14 Apr 2017, at 22:39, Andrew Alston wrote: ? ? >> ? ? >> But it raises a question ? and its one I?ve been debating at length online with multiple people. ? ? >> ? ? >> AfriNIC ? completely neutral technical body ? ? >> AfriNIC ? political organisation with a technical function ? ? >> AfriNIC ? A hybrid of both of the above? ? ? >> ? ? >> Because that impacts how we view things ? and it impacts the role that the organisation should be playing. ? ? >> AFRINIC?s goals are stated in section 3.4 of the Bylaws > Alan Barrett > On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 5:15 PM, Andrew Alston wrote:> Hi Alan, > Thanks ? that?s actually a very useful reference ? particularly if we dig into it deeper: Hello Andrew, I hope we are not just discovering the details of the Afrinic bylaws now, but please dig deeper into these bylaws as one of our directors at Afrinic before attempting to author policies next time as things are more complicated than you will ever imagine.... But we are on the right path as at now with this discussions...... MirriamPython Developer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ali at hussein.me.ke Sat Apr 15 17:16:30 2017 From: ali at hussein.me.ke (Ali Hussein) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 20:16:30 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: All Internet/Tech related organizations operating in Africa should sign a manifesto explicitly opposing Internet Shutdowns In Africa. These include:- 1. Afrinic 2. All National Tech/Telco Associations 3. AfTlD and related organizations 4. Any other related organizations. It is clear to me that even if the above organizations do not have the power or powers to deny offending governments critical internet resources the clear message will go a long way in galvanizing the African people in defeating the non sense of Internet shut downs. Ali Hussein Principal Hussein & Associates +254 0713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit." ~ Aristotle Sent from my iPad > On 15 Apr 2017, at 7:37 PM, Willy MANGA wrote: > > Hi , > (speaking in my own capacity) > >> Le 13/04/2017 ? 10:21, Seun Ojedeji a ?crit : >> >> >> Dear Community, >> >> [...] >> One other thing that comes to mind is whether AFRINIC can be pro-active >> instead of re-active i.e they are made aware of the planned act and issue >> strong statement against it hoping that it will get to the ears of relevant >> authorities and get them to reconsider. This may also be effective if the >> relationship between AFRINIC and the AU (and regional bodies like ECOWAS, >> EAC, COMESA etc) is strengthened as that can serve as a channel of >> communication to the respective governments. > > From my personal understanding whatever is the motivation behind the > shutdown, some states act like that because they see the Internet as > something very strange and dangerous because they do not have the *full* > control. > I use to compare it to people who have not followed any life-saving > class. When there is fire, they are afraid and run about instead of > following safety instructions. > > Many don't know at all (or they are realizing a little bit) what the > Internet is. It's usual to see people who compare Internet to some > social networks for instance. > Many people don't know that social networks is a fraction of the web > which itself is a fraction of the Internet. (You should thank some big > players for their marketing here; they did it best unfortunately) > > Internet does/should not belong to any entity,individual. Here is the > biggest issue for any state. They look for ways to gain more and more > control. Those who do not master the keys of their national > infrastructure cut all or a part of the services. Those who master all > their infrastructure capture traffic,analyse it and decide on how to > proceed with that data. In Africa we are generally on the first case. > Whatever the case, this issue should be addressed to ICANN in my humble > opinion. AFRINIC can discuss it within ASO. > > Moreover on a continental level, in addition to what Seun has suggested > above in order to help them better understand what is this ?beast?, I > think they need more capacity building training at different levels > (technical,administrative,..) and on various topics. We all know that > these trainings exist but they should continue. > I read that their participation within AfGWG was low; we should help our > States understand that they have to really participate, give their > opinions and discuss. Their low participation contribute a little bit to > the situation where you see a proposal emerge within the community on > whether or not AFRINIC should take some actions when an internet > shutdown occurs. > > At last, I'm not convinced that international pressure will always be > the better solution (or even the solution). Most of us here are citizen > of a country in Africa. Those who participate here are very aware of the > importance of the Internet. We should push forward debate (and actions) > in our respective country on these issue. It's not easy at all, trust me > (speaking for my country) but that should be the way forward. We have to > be responsible at all our different levels and help our national > ecosystem grow because we cannot evolve if we do not study/contribute to > RFC, deploy root servers system, build IXP, use IPv6, sign our zones, > ... If we do not understand and contribute on all that matters we will > always run about when we'll have the feeling that ?the danger? comes > from the Internet. > > The solutions should come *at first* from the citizen, entities of each > country. > > > -- > Willy Manga > freenode: ongolaBoy > Ubuntu Cameroonian Loco Team > https://launchpad.net/~manga-willy > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com Sat Apr 15 17:38:50 2017 From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 17:38:50 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC? In-Reply-To: <1449677016.920211.1492276341617@mail.yahoo.com> References: , <1449677016.920211.1492276341617@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Heh Mirriam, What the bylaws said would not have changed what I authored and my co authors wrote - in any way shape or form. The policy process is what guides who gets space, how they qualify for it, and how it can be revoked - the discussion around the bylaws is a far deeper question - but I do not believe it changes the fundamental nature of the policy. The policy however did act as a catalyst for a discussion that the community I believe really does need to have - to understand the nature of our organization as it exists today. Andrew Get Outlook for iOS ________________________________ From: Mirriam Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2017 8:12:21 PM To: community-discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC? >>On 15/04/2017, 12:14, "Alan Barrett" > wrote: >> On 14 Apr 2017, at 22:39, Andrew Alston > wrote: >> >> But it raises a question ? and its one I?ve been debating at length online with multiple people. >> >> AfriNIC ? completely neutral technical body >> AfriNIC ? political organisation with a technical function >> AfriNIC ? A hybrid of both of the above? >> >> Because that impacts how we view things ? and it impacts the role that the organisation should be playing. >> AFRINIC?s goals are stated in section 3.4 of the Bylaws >> Alan Barrett > On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 5:15 PM, Andrew Alston > wrote: > Hi Alan, > Thanks ? that?s actually a very useful reference ? particularly if we dig into it deeper: Hello Andrew, I hope we are not just discovering the details of the Afrinic bylaws now, but please dig deeper into these bylaws as one of our directors at Afrinic before attempting to author policies next time as things are more complicated than you will ever imagine.... But we are on the right path as at now with this discussions...... Mirriam Python Developer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ish at lsl.digital Sat Apr 15 18:46:21 2017 From: ish at lsl.digital (Ish Sookun) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 22:46:21 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC? In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20170414144659.0cc553e8@elandnews.com> References: <3F895812-D192-4D6F-8F21-E3D7F66F6297@forum.org.ng> <6.2.5.6.2.20170414144659.0cc553e8@elandnews.com> Message-ID: Hi SM, On 04/15/2017 06:38 PM, sm+afrinic at elandsys.com wrote: > > I did not receive any reply from the president of the local ISOC chapter > when I asked about internet shutdowns. There hasn't been much interest > in the human rights issues during that debate. Three companies in the > region participated in the recent debate. There weren't any comments > from organizations with an interest in human rights. I'll conclude that > there aren't any organizations in the region which are interested in that. Are you referring to the tweet? On the ISOC member portal the Mauritius chapter is just a phone number, nothing more. There is no information about other members or a president. I see no ISOC activity in Mauritius. I read that you participated in a Mauritius chapter meeting in 2011. I do not know if there were meetings afterward. In the previous email Alan Barett talked about the dual mandate of AFRINIC; one of which is ? to promote the development of the Internet ?. Is there any organization that promotes the development of the Internet in Mauritius? Regards, -- Ish Sookun I drink coffee and manage Linux servers for lexpress.mu. From sm+afrinic at elandsys.com Sat Apr 15 21:01:27 2017 From: sm+afrinic at elandsys.com (sm+afrinic at elandsys.com) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 14:01:27 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC? In-Reply-To: References: <3F895812-D192-4D6F-8F21-E3D7F66F6297@forum.org.ng> <6.2.5.6.2.20170414144659.0cc553e8@elandnews.com> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20170415120727.0d2d5f70@elandnews.com> Hi Ish, At 11:46 15-04-2017, Ish Sookun wrote: >Are you referring to the tweet? Yes. >On the ISOC member portal the Mauritius chapter is just a phone number, >nothing more. There is no information about other members or a >president. I see no ISOC activity in Mauritius. I read that you >participated in a Mauritius chapter meeting in 2011. I do not know if >there were meetings afterward. That meeting was held because the local chapter was dormant. I don't know what the local chapter has been doing since then. >In the previous email Alan Barett talked about the dual mandate of >AFRINIC; one of which is ? to promote the development of the Internet ?. > >Is there any organization that promotes the development of the Internet >in Mauritius? Afrinic has done some training Mauritius as part of the mandate. There are issues related to the internet. Is your question about that? Regards, S. Moonesamy From noah at neo.co.tz Sun Apr 16 06:27:03 2017 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2017 09:27:03 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Folks, Under normal circumstances, the internet is open in most African countries save for a few that censor it to a certain extend. Half of the continent is not connected to the internet especially folk in rural Africa and we all know the challenges (a data plan ain't a basic need). These are the folk that account for more that 50% of the electorate and majority of them are not connected to the cyber space. So cutting off the internet from a minority population of elites in urban centers to contain political uprisings/opposition is a strategy worthy exploring as far as some of our governments are concerned. Mind you there has been a lot of cyber-laws being enacted by both policymakers and lawmakers across different African countries as a way of containing/censoring the cyber space. We can not deny the fact that social media has been a disruptive tool that has taken away control of information dissemination from the State. It was easy to control broadcasting [The Radio/Television] as the center of production was a physical location which the authority could just walk in and switch off the antennas or the spectrum during times of political uprisings. Today information can be sent through twitter, facebook, instagram all done in real time almost at the speed of light and/or from someones bedroom. So whenever political power is threatened by means of the cyber space, the quickest hack for mostly despotic governments is to shutdown the Internets if they cant block or censor them hence the suppression [1]. So for me personally, I am more interested in folks debating the various political factors that lead to internet shutdown and we must accept that the its politics and nothing but politics that attract the final shutdown. Therefore stakeholders who intend to engage governments to lobby for an open internet can only engage the politicians when they understand how serious an open internet is a threat to any governments whose regime in under threat during times of political protests and would not hesitate for a second to press the off button and like *SM* indicated to contain political opposition. We have a long way to fight for the liberties of all kind but a multi-stakeholder discourse is a starting point in promoting internet freedom. The Internet is a growing tool not just for personal communication, but for nations economies and the case for Internet has to be as important as any other factor that drives the GDP growth of a sovereign state's economy and the is no no doubt that the digital economy is expected to grow more that we could imagine. So lets look at all options. Cheers, Noah [1] Needless to say, In other parts of the world, censorship and surveillance has become the norm and an alternative to internet shutdown. If the people are not free, how do you expect the internet to be free? Thinking Snowden and Julian Assange for a second.... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ish at lsl.digital Sun Apr 16 07:27:07 2017 From: ish at lsl.digital (Ish Sookun) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2017 11:27:07 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC? In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20170415120727.0d2d5f70@elandnews.com> References: <3F895812-D192-4D6F-8F21-E3D7F66F6297@forum.org.ng> <6.2.5.6.2.20170414144659.0cc553e8@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20170415120727.0d2d5f70@elandnews.com> Message-ID: Hi SM, On 04/16/2017 01:01 AM, sm+afrinic at elandsys.com wrote: > > Yes. > I was referring to the tweet you sent to the alleged president of ISOC MU. > > That meeting was held because the local chapter was dormant. I don't > know what the local chapter has been doing since then. > Okay. >> In the previous email Alan Barett talked about the dual mandate of >> AFRINIC; one of which is ? to promote the development of the Internet ?. >> >> Is there any organization that promotes the development of the Internet >> in Mauritius? > > Afrinic has done some training Mauritius as part of the mandate. There > are issues related to the internet. Is your question about that? > Yes, there are several issues related to the internet like: - the price difference of broadband 1M vs 10M in different parts of the country - the exorbitant price of broadband for business (except that Mauritius Telecom has recently reviewed some of the packages) - what if the government shuts down access to a newspaper website? - the government is still helpless over gov.mu - the .mu multi-stakeholder forum failed - the ICT Act of Mauritius has an Internet Management Committee which is worrying - the ICT Authority is smeared in scandals Regards, -- Ish Sookun I drink coffee and manage Linux servers for lexpress.mu. From sm+afrinic at elandsys.com Mon Apr 17 06:04:52 2017 From: sm+afrinic at elandsys.com (sm+afrinic at elandsys.com) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2017 23:04:52 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC? In-Reply-To: References: <3F895812-D192-4D6F-8F21-E3D7F66F6297@forum.org.ng> <6.2.5.6.2.20170414144659.0cc553e8@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20170415120727.0d2d5f70@elandnews.com> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20170416202515.0d997b60@elandnews.com> Hi Ish, At 00:27 16-04-2017, Ish Sookun wrote: >I was referring to the tweet you sent to the alleged president of ISOC MU. I gather that you noticed the issue of which of the two local ISOCs is the local chapter. One of them has links to a political party. >Yes, there are several issues related to the internet like: > >- the price difference of broadband 1M vs 10M in different parts of the >country >- the exorbitant price of broadband for business (except that Mauritius >Telecom has recently reviewed some of the packages) Promoting the development of the internet also entails discussing about those two issues. In doing that, Afrinic may have to work against the interests of one of its members to do what is in the interests of users. The price of internet access is a significant concern in the region as the high cost acts as a barrier to access. I pointed out to the government that it makes local small businesses uncompetitive in comparison with small businesses from another country; I'll mention that it was an issue for one of my local customers. >- what if the government shuts down access to a newspaper website? Did the newspaper consider that it could happen and take measures against that? >- the government is still helpless over gov.mu Please see http://www.elandsys.com/~sm/govmu-org-domain-name-issues2.html >- the .mu multi-stakeholder forum failed A COO of Afrinic advised the government about the forum. I don't know what was said. I pointed out that the costs for the initial proposal [1] were too expensive and that it would not look good when the press takes a look at it. I put in a significant amount of time and effort to bring that down to one-third of the initial cost. The forum failed because the government assumed that everyone on the "committee" would rubber-stamp whatever it said. >- the ICT Act of Mauritius has an Internet Management Committee which is >worrying According to the Act, the minister appoints its members. There isn't any information about the members of that committee on the regulator's web site. Are you worried because the committee will do the bidding of the government? >- the ICT Authority is smeared in scandals Yes. Regards, S. Moonesamy 1. It was drafted after the proposal which was described as "clumsy". From ish at lsl.digital Tue Apr 18 06:02:49 2017 From: ish at lsl.digital (Ish Sookun) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 10:02:49 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC? In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20170416202515.0d997b60@elandnews.com> References: <3F895812-D192-4D6F-8F21-E3D7F66F6297@forum.org.ng> <6.2.5.6.2.20170414144659.0cc553e8@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20170415120727.0d2d5f70@elandnews.com> <6.2.5.6.2.20170416202515.0d997b60@elandnews.com> Message-ID: <42511ed0-ea2d-790c-00c5-3a1913e21750@lsl.digital> Hi SM, On 04/17/2017 10:04 AM, sm+afrinic at elandsys.com wrote: > > I gather that you noticed the issue of which of the two local ISOCs is > the local chapter. One of them has links to a political party. > Yes. > > Promoting the development of the internet also entails discussing about > those two issues. In doing that, Afrinic may have to work against the > interests of one of its members to do what is in the interests of users. > There seems to be a similar situation when the subject of ISP monopoly is raised with government bodies. > The price of internet access is a significant concern in the region as > the high cost acts as a barrier to access. I pointed out to the > government that it makes local small businesses uncompetitive in > comparison with small businesses from another country; I'll mention that > it was an issue for one of my local customers. > Yes. > > Did the newspaper consider that it could happen and take measures > against that? > I disclose that I work for a press group in Mauritius. I am not speaking on behalf of the newspaper. My opinion is that every newspaper in Mauritius should seriously consider the possibility of the government blocking them. > > Please see http://www.elandsys.com/~sm/govmu-org-domain-name-issues2.html > There does not seem to be any willingness from the government's side to get back gov.mu, unless I am unaware of government efforts. > [..] I put in a significant amount of time and effort to > bring that down to one-third of the initial cost. The forum failed > because the government assumed that everyone on the "committee" would > rubber-stamp whatever it said. > Yes. > > According to the Act, the minister appoints its members. There isn't > any information about the members of that committee on the regulator's > web site. Are you worried because the committee will do the bidding of > the government? > Not only that. I worry that actions of the committee could be politically motivated. I draw my conclusions from what happened with the board of the ICT Authority. Regards, -- Ish Sookun I drink coffee and manage Linux servers for lexpress.mu. From wale at forum.org.ng Tue Apr 18 13:55:02 2017 From: wale at forum.org.ng (Wale Adedokun) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 13:55:02 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Community-Discuss] Call for Nominations into AFRINIC Governance Committee In-Reply-To: <1207729603.31038.1490961109027.JavaMail.zimbra@forum.org.ng> References: <435379829.9138.1489938495745.JavaMail.zimbra@forum.org.ng> <1207729603.31038.1490961109027.JavaMail.zimbra@forum.org.ng> Message-ID: <869239451.73341.1492523702644.JavaMail.zimbra@forum.org.ng> Dear AFRINIC Member, Please note that the deadline for the closure of the candidate nomination period for AFRINIC Governance Committee member is 22nd April 2017 by 20:00 UTC. Please see details at: http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/2039-gc-nomination-2017 NomCom2017 ----- Wale Adedokun wrote: > Dear AFRINIC Member, > This is to remind you that the call for nominations into the Governance Committee is still open. Thank you. > > > > > > Wale Adedokun wrote: > > Dear AFRINIC Member, > > > > The AFRINIC NomCom2017 is pleased to invite nominations from the community for one(1) Governance Committee position up for election to serve a three-year term from January 2018 to December 2020. The seat is currently held by Abdalla Omari. > > > > Please see details at: http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/2039-gc-nomination-2017 > > > > > > Deadline for Nominations: > > The Closure of the Candidate Nomination period is 22nd April 2017 at 20:00 UTC. > > > > > > Dr. Wale Adedokun > > For NomCom 2017 > From wale at forum.org.ng Tue Apr 18 13:56:42 2017 From: wale at forum.org.ng (Wale Adedokun) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 13:56:42 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Community-Discuss] Call for Nominations for AFRINIC Board In-Reply-To: <568497348.31072.1490961294666.JavaMail.zimbra@forum.org.ng> References: <1235678303.1757.1489522864794.JavaMail.zimbra@forum.org.ng> <568497348.31072.1490961294666.JavaMail.zimbra@forum.org.ng> Message-ID: <48890446.73347.1492523802828.JavaMail.zimbra@forum.org.ng> Dear AFRINIC Member, Please note that the deadline for the closure of the candidate nomination period for AFRINIC Board is 22nd April 2017 by 20:00 UTC. Please see details at: http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/2035-afrinic-2017-board-nomination NomCom2017 ----- Wale Adedokun wrote: > > Dear AFRINIC Member, > > This is to remind you that the call for nomination into the AFRINIC Board is still open. thank you. > > NomCom 2107 > > > ----- Wale Adedokun wrote: > > Dear AFRINIC Member, > > > > NomCom2017 is pleased to announce that the AFRINIC Board Nomination process is open for the following seats to serve a three-year term from July 2017 to June 2020 > > > > Seat 3 (Indian Ocean), currently held by Kris Seeburn; > > Seat 4 (Central Africa), currently held by Christian D. Bope; > > Seat 8 (Non-geographical), currently held by Andrew Alston > > > > The Closure of the Candidate Nomination period is 22nd April 2017 at 20:00 UTC. > > > > Please see details at: http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/2035-afrinic-2017-board-nomination > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > > Dr. Wale Adedokun > > On behalf of NomCom 2017 > > > From wale at forum.org.ng Tue Apr 18 13:58:32 2017 From: wale at forum.org.ng (Wale Adedokun) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 13:58:32 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Community-Discuss] Fwd: Fwd: Call for Nominations for Co-Chair of the Policy Development Working Group (PDWG) In-Reply-To: <1840082524.31034.1490960993042.JavaMail.zimbra@forum.org.ng> References: <610343473.9173.1489938585636.JavaMail.zimbra@forum.org.ng> <1840082524.31034.1490960993042.JavaMail.zimbra@forum.org.ng> Message-ID: <982497636.73352.1492523912863.JavaMail.zimbra@forum.org.ng> Dear AFRINIC Community, Please note that the deadline for the closure of the candidate nomination period for AFRINIC Co-Chair of the Policy Development Working Group (PDWG) is 22nd April 2017 by 20:00 UTC. Please see details at: http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/2041-pdwg-nomination-2017 NomCom2017 ----- Wale Adedokun wrote: > > Dear AFRINIC Member, > This is a reminder that the call for nomination for a PDWG Co-Chair is still open > > Wale > > ----- Wale Adedokun wrote: > > Dear AFRINIC Member, > > > > The AFRINIC NomCom2017 is pleased to invite nominations for 1 Co-Chair of the Policy Development Working Group (PDWG) for a 2-year term. June 2017 to June 2019. > > The Seat is currently held by Dewole Ajao. > > > > Please see details at: http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/2041-pdwg-nomination-2017 > > > > > > Deadline for Nominations: > > The Closure of the Candidate Nomination period is 22nd April 2017 at 20:00 UTC. > > > > > > Dr. Wale Adedokun > > For NomCom 2017 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss From wale at forum.org.ng Tue Apr 18 14:00:25 2017 From: wale at forum.org.ng (Wale Adedokun) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 14:00:25 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Community-Discuss] Call for Nominations for an Open Seat on the NRO-NC In-Reply-To: <48536865.31069.1490961206330.JavaMail.zimbra@forum.org.ng> References: <63769036.7316.1489773146633.JavaMail.zimbra@forum.org.ng> <48536865.31069.1490961206330.JavaMail.zimbra@forum.org.ng> Message-ID: <600354556.73358.1492524025909.JavaMail.zimbra@forum.org.ng> Dear AFRINIC Community, Please note that the deadline for the closure of the candidate nomination period for NRO-NC for AFRINIC region member is 22nd April 2017 by 20:00 UTC. Please see details at: : http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/2037-nronc-nomination-2017 NomCom 2017 ----- Wale Adedokun wrote: > Dear AFRINIC Member, > This is to remind you that the call for nomination for a seat on the NRO-NC is still open. Thank you > > NomCom 2017 > > > > > ----- Wale Adedokun wrote: > > Dear AFRINIC Member, > > > > The AFRINIC NomCom 2017 is pleased to invite nominations for candidates to run for an open seat on the NRO-NC for AFRINIC region. > > The seat is currently held by Douglas Onyango > > The term for the elected candidate will be from 1 January 2018 to 31 December 2020 (3 years). > > > > > > Please see details at: http://www.afrinic.net/en/library/news/2037-nronc-nomination-2017 > > > > > > Deadline for Nominations: > > The Closure of the Candidate Nomination period is 22nd April 2017 at 20:00 UTC. > > > > > > > From badru.ntege at nftconsult.com Tue Apr 18 14:44:10 2017 From: badru.ntege at nftconsult.com (Badru Ntege) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2017 17:44:10 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: +1 Noah well put. If we do not seek to understand through dialogue we become the same as those forcing shutdowns where unfortunately for us in reality we have very limited bargaining powers with a sovereign state. As much as we might want to think otherwise. Regards On 4/16/17, 9:27 AM, "Noah" wrote: Folks, Under normal circumstances, the internet is open in most African countries save for a few that censor it to a certain extend. Half of the continent is not connected to the internet especially folk in rural Africa and we all know the challenges (a data plan ain't a basic need). These are the folk that account for more that 50% of the electorate and majority of them are not connected to the cyber space. So cutting off the internet from a minority population of elites in urban centers to contain political uprisings/opposition is a strategy worthy exploring as far as some of our governments are concerned. Mind you there has been a lot of cyber-laws being enacted by both policymakers and lawmakers across different African countries as a way of containing/censoring the cyber space. We can not deny the fact that social media has been a disruptive tool that has taken away control of information dissemination from the State. It was easy to control broadcasting [The Radio/Television] as the center of production was a physical location which the authority could just walk in and switch off the antennas or the spectrum during times of political uprisings. Today information can be sent through twitter, facebook, instagram all done in real time almost at the speed of light and/or from someones bedroom. So whenever political power is threatened by means of the cyber space, the quickest hack for mostly despotic governments is to shutdown the Internets if they cant block or censor them hence the suppression [1]. So for me personally, I am more interested in folks debating the various political factors that lead to internet shutdown and we must accept that the its politics and nothing but politics that attract the final shutdown. Therefore stakeholders who intend to engage governments to lobby for an open internet can only engage the politicians when they understand how serious an open internet is a threat to any governments whose regime in under threat during times of political protests and would not hesitate for a second to press the off button and like SM indicated to contain political opposition. We have a long way to fight for the liberties of all kind but a multi-stakeholder discourse is a starting point in promoting internet freedom. The Internet is a growing tool not just for personal communication, but for nations economies and the case for Internet has to be as important as any other factor that drives the GDP growth of a sovereign state's economy and the is no no doubt that the digital economy is expected to grow more that we could imagine. So lets look at all options. Cheers, Noah [1] Needless to say, In other parts of the world, censorship and surveillance has become the norm and an alternative to internet shutdown. If the people are not free, how do you expect the internet to be free? Thinking Snowden and Julian Assange for a second.... _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jwalu at yahoo.com Wed Apr 19 06:01:51 2017 From: jwalu at yahoo.com (Walubengo J) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 06:01:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Community-Discuss] African governments that shut down the internet could lose it References: <1732354511.3535179.1492581711472.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1732354511.3535179.1492581711472@mail.yahoo.com> In an unprecedented policy suggestion, some members of the?AFRINIC community?have proposed denying internet to African governments that shut it down in their respective countries.>>>more belowWALUBENGO: African governments that shut down the internet could | | | | | | | | | | | WALUBENGO: African governments that shut down the internet could On Kenya the jury is still out, but the government is giving mixed signals. | | | | walu. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sm+afrinic at elandsys.com Wed Apr 19 08:36:51 2017 From: sm+afrinic at elandsys.com (sm+afrinic at elandsys.com) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 01:36:51 -0700 Subject: [Community-Discuss] African governments that shut down the internet could lose it In-Reply-To: <1732354511.3535179.1492581711472@mail.yahoo.com> References: <1732354511.3535179.1492581711472.ref@mail.yahoo.com> <1732354511.3535179.1492581711472@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6.2.5.6.2.20170419010601.0d365678@elandnews.com> Hi Walu, At 23:01 18-04-2017, Walubengo J wrote: >In an unprecedented policy suggestion, some members of the AFRINIC >community have proposed denying internet to African governments that >shut it down in their respective countries. Thanks for sharing the blog article. I was not aware that there were discussions about shutting the internet in Kenya as there weren't any comments about that in internet governance/policy venues. Regards, S. Moonesamy From noah at neo.co.tz Wed Apr 19 14:58:26 2017 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 17:58:26 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Accountability and Transparency In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 7 Apr 2017 4:04 p.m., "AFRINIC <" wrote: Dear Members, We are pleased to inform our Members that the December 2016 version of the AFRINIC Bylaws have been duly registered with the Mauritian Registrar of Companies. The changes to the Bylaws were made in terms of several special resolutions passed at the Special General Members' Meeting held on 30 November 2016 in Mauritius, and the new version was registered in terms of Board resolution 201612.321 http://afrinic.net/about/bod/meeting/2016#r321. A confirmation of registration is available at http://afrinic.net/images/c onfirmation_of_bylaws_registration.pdf The current version of the Bylaws is available at http://afrinic.net/en/about/bylaws/2001-afrinic-bylaws-2016 or http://afrinic.net/images/AFRINIC_Constitution_2016.pdf Best Regards AFRINIC Hello Chair, Above and beyond the registration of the updated company bylaws, I would like to know where we stand in terms of accountability. I would like to know more about the outcome of the accountability review and the votes on resolutions that followed. Ref: AFRINIC's board strongly condemnation of Internet shutdowns by some government which I take was directed towards what has been happening in (Cameroon). Can we know if there has been any prior communication from the AFRINIC board to the government in question prior and after the condemnation? Does the AFRINIC board have such strategies that can support the organsation in case its at loss in terms of revenue due to Internet shutdown? What is the status of the GC and its relationship with the AFRINIC's board in terms of transparency and guidance? Cheers, Noah PS: If we want the governments to be held accoutable, we ought to accept to be held accountable too by AFRINIC stakeholders, resource members and the community at large. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Thu Apr 20 12:28:34 2017 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 15:28:34 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Badru People are talking about targeting executive branches of governments not knowing that most of the shutdown that have happened in the past including the one in Cameroon has a lot to do with the local countries politics, policies and regulation. Some countries governments don't shutdown the internet but they have some crazy regulations that censor the cyber space that you would not even want to live there. For any organization to get number resources, the applicants are vetted by AFRINIC against their countries regulations (license of operation) which are a prerequisite for getting the IP resources from AFRINIC. This kind of relationship has existed between AFRINIC and all regulatory bodies in all countries that AFRINIC serve. What this basically mean is that if the country decided to deny an entity a license to operate, that entity cant access number resources from AFRINIC which means its only the local regulations that determine internet development, expansion and freedom and not AFRINIC. Dont bite the hand that feeds you. I rest my case... Noah On 18 Apr 2017 5:44 p.m., "Badru Ntege" wrote: > +1 Noah well put. > > If we do not seek to understand through dialogue we become the same as > those forcing shutdowns where unfortunately for us in reality we have very > limited bargaining powers with a sovereign state. As much as we might want > to think otherwise. > > Regards > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mje at posix.co.za Thu Apr 20 13:39:52 2017 From: mje at posix.co.za (Mark Elkins) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 15:39:52 +0200 Subject: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <929879ca-5e98-e8c7-6847-64008ae3dca3@posix.co.za> On 20/04/2017 14:28, Noah wrote: > Hi Badru > > People are talking about targeting executive branches of governments > not knowing that most of the shutdown that have happened in the past > including the one in Cameroon has a lot to do with the local countries > politics, policies and regulation. Some countries governments don't > shutdown the internet but they have some crazy regulations that censor > the cyber space that you would not even want to live there. > > For any organization to get number resources, the applicants are > vetted by AFRINIC against their countries regulations (license of > operation) which are a prerequisite for getting the IP resources from > AFRINIC. This kind of relationship has existed between AFRINIC and all > regulatory bodies in all countries that AFRINIC serve. What this > basically mean is that if the country decided to deny an entity a > license to operate, that entity cant access number resources from > AFRINIC which means its only the local regulations that determine > internet development, expansion and freedom and not AFRINIC. Ah - but this is not necessarily true. In South Africa, we were getting IP resources before there were ISP licenses. You also don't need an ISP license to do Web Hosting - and as I understand, neither the ZACR or DNS in South Africa have ISP licenses - but run the ccTLD between them. Both organisations have their own address space. The same goes for JINX (CINX/DINX) the ISPAs exchange points. No licenses. Some people with their own infrastructure at Teraco (data warehouse) - no licenses - but they have address space. Universities don't have licenses either. That probably holds true for all African countries. I'd guess End users generally fall into this category. I guess governments do too. AFRINIC staff use there best ability to decide on the requirements. a License is a reasonably easy criteria to ask for but I believe that if AFRINIC was aware that the government was not playing fair - then licenses would not be a criteria to getting address space. However, if you apply as an ISP and need a license but can't operate in that country - then I guess you wouldn't need address space. I am sure if you have a college and apply to AFRINIC - you'll be able to get address space. > Dont bite the hand that feeds you. I rest my case... > > Noah > > On 18 Apr 2017 5:44 p.m., "Badru Ntege" > wrote: > > +1 Noah well put. > > If we do not seek to understand through dialogue we become the > same as those forcing shutdowns where unfortunately for us in > reality we have very limited bargaining powers with a sovereign > state. As much as we might want to think otherwise. > > Regards > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -- Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa mje at posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496 For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Thu Apr 20 14:21:37 2017 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 17:21:37 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC? In-Reply-To: <929879ca-5e98-e8c7-6847-64008ae3dca3@posix.co.za> References: <929879ca-5e98-e8c7-6847-64008ae3dca3@posix.co.za> Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 4:39 PM, Mark Elkins wrote: > > > On 20/04/2017 14:28, Noah wrote: > > Hi Badru > > People are talking about targeting executive branches of governments not > knowing that most of the shutdown that have happened in the past including > the one in Cameroon has a lot to do with the local countries politics, > policies and regulation. Some countries governments don't shutdown the > internet but they have some crazy regulations that censor the cyber space > that you would not even want to live there. > > For any organization to get number resources, the applicants are vetted by > AFRINIC against their countries regulations (license of operation) which > are a prerequisite for getting the IP resources from AFRINIC. This kind of > relationship has existed between AFRINIC and all regulatory bodies in all > countries that AFRINIC serve. What this basically mean is that if the > country decided to deny an entity a license to operate, that entity cant > access number resources from AFRINIC which means its only the local > regulations that determine internet development, expansion and freedom and > not AFRINIC. > > > Ah - but this is not necessarily true. In South Africa, we were getting IP > resources before there were ISP licenses. You also don't need an ISP > license to do Web Hosting - and as I understand, neither the ZACR or DNS in > South Africa have ISP licenses - but run the ccTLD between them. Both > organisations have their own address space. The same goes for JINX > (CINX/DINX) the ISPAs exchange points. No licenses. Some people with their > own infrastructure at Teraco (data warehouse) - no licenses - but they have > address space. Universities don't have licenses either. That probably holds > true for all African countries. I'd guess End users generally fall into > this category. I guess governments do too. > > AFRINIC staff use there best ability to decide on the requirements. a > License is a reasonably easy criteria to ask for but I believe that if > AFRINIC was aware that the government was not playing fair - then licenses > would not be a criteria to getting address space. However, if you apply as > an ISP and need a license but can't operate in that country - then I guess > you wouldn't need address space. > > I am sure if you have a college and apply to AFRINIC - you'll be able to > get address space. > > Elkins, So let me be specific. ISP's and Telecom as far as I know, require a license from their respective communications regulators to operate Internet services. This are the guys who the government targets first for internet shutdowns not universities, IXP's, Hosting providers etc... though this group also can be targeted. I am not sure if AFRINIC has ever issued resources to entities who didn't present some sort of license or local business registration of a sort. This is how I tie the relationship between the Government and AFRINIC. Noah -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net Thu Apr 20 15:10:56 2017 From: Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net (Omo Oaiya) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 16:10:56 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC? In-Reply-To: References: <929879ca-5e98-e8c7-6847-64008ae3dca3@posix.co.za> Message-ID: <1E73E269-26A2-4284-8B41-3C5C698A3A88@wacren.net> > On 20 Apr 2017, at 15:21, Noah wrote: > > > > On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 4:39 PM, Mark Elkins > wrote: > > > On 20/04/2017 14:28, Noah wrote: >> Hi Badru >> >> People are talking about targeting executive branches of governments not knowing that most of the shutdown that have happened in the past including the one in Cameroon has a lot to do with the local countries politics, policies and regulation. Some countries governments don't shutdown the internet but they have some crazy regulations that censor the cyber space that you would not even want to live there. >> >> For any organization to get number resources, the applicants are vetted by AFRINIC against their countries regulations (license of operation) which are a prerequisite for getting the IP resources from AFRINIC. This kind of relationship has existed between AFRINIC and all regulatory bodies in all countries that AFRINIC serve. What this basically mean is that if the country decided to deny an entity a license to operate, that entity cant access number resources from AFRINIC which means its only the local regulations that determine internet development, expansion and freedom and not AFRINIC. > > Ah - but this is not necessarily true. In South Africa, we were getting IP resources before there were ISP licenses. You also don't need an ISP license to do Web Hosting - and as I understand, neither the ZACR or DNS in South Africa have ISP licenses - but run the ccTLD between them. Both organisations have their own address space. The same goes for JINX (CINX/DINX) the ISPAs exchange points. No licenses. Some people with their own infrastructure at Teraco (data warehouse) - no licenses - but they have address space. Universities don't have licenses either. That probably holds true for all African countries. I'd guess End users generally fall into this category. I guess governments do too. > > AFRINIC staff use there best ability to decide on the requirements. a License is a reasonably easy criteria to ask for but I believe that if AFRINIC was aware that the government was not playing fair - then licenses would not be a criteria to getting address space. However, if you apply as an ISP and need a license but can't operate in that country - then I guess you wouldn't need address space. > > I am sure if you have a college and apply to AFRINIC - you'll be able to get address space. > > > Elkins, > > So let me be specific. ISP's and Telecom as far as I know, require a license from their respective communications regulators to operate Internet services. This are the guys who the government targets first for internet shutdowns not universities, IXP's, Hosting providers etc... though this group also can be targeted. I also fail to see Mark?s point. What would-be the point of end users with address space if there is no one to carry their traffic? I don?t know about South Africa, but in the countries I work with in WACREN and AfricaConnect2, there is no Internet without the ISPs and Telco?s. I don?t see a viable AFRINIC or our research networks for that matter without this group. -Omo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 801 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com Thu Apr 20 15:43:04 2017 From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 15:43:04 +0000 Subject: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC? In-Reply-To: <929879ca-5e98-e8c7-6847-64008ae3dca3@posix.co.za> References: <929879ca-5e98-e8c7-6847-64008ae3dca3@posix.co.za> Message-ID: I also point out that there is nothing in any AfriNIC policy that requires an entity that is requesting space to have a license of any form, unless I have missed it ? it may be something being asked for ? but it?s not in policy and it?s not in the bylaws to my knowledge. If anyone knows differently, please can you show it to me ? because that?s an issue that I?ve argued for a long time Andrew From: Mark Elkins [mailto:mje at posix.co.za] Sent: 20 April 2017 16:40 To: community-discuss at afrinic.net Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC? On 20/04/2017 14:28, Noah wrote: Hi Badru People are talking about targeting executive branches of governments not knowing that most of the shutdown that have happened in the past including the one in Cameroon has a lot to do with the local countries politics, policies and regulation. Some countries governments don't shutdown the internet but they have some crazy regulations that censor the cyber space that you would not even want to live there. For any organization to get number resources, the applicants are vetted by AFRINIC against their countries regulations (license of operation) which are a prerequisite for getting the IP resources from AFRINIC. This kind of relationship has existed between AFRINIC and all regulatory bodies in all countries that AFRINIC serve. What this basically mean is that if the country decided to deny an entity a license to operate, that entity cant access number resources from AFRINIC which means its only the local regulations that determine internet development, expansion and freedom and not AFRINIC. Ah - but this is not necessarily true. In South Africa, we were getting IP resources before there were ISP licenses. You also don't need an ISP license to do Web Hosting - and as I understand, neither the ZACR or DNS in South Africa have ISP licenses - but run the ccTLD between them. Both organisations have their own address space. The same goes for JINX (CINX/DINX) the ISPAs exchange points. No licenses. Some people with their own infrastructure at Teraco (data warehouse) - no licenses - but they have address space. Universities don't have licenses either. That probably holds true for all African countries. I'd guess End users generally fall into this category. I guess governments do too. AFRINIC staff use there best ability to decide on the requirements. a License is a reasonably easy criteria to ask for but I believe that if AFRINIC was aware that the government was not playing fair - then licenses would not be a criteria to getting address space. However, if you apply as an ISP and need a license but can't operate in that country - then I guess you wouldn't need address space. I am sure if you have a college and apply to AFRINIC - you'll be able to get address space. Dont bite the hand that feeds you. I rest my case... Noah On 18 Apr 2017 5:44 p.m., "Badru Ntege" > wrote: +1 Noah well put. If we do not seek to understand through dialogue we become the same as those forcing shutdowns where unfortunately for us in reality we have very limited bargaining powers with a sovereign state. As much as we might want to think otherwise. Regards _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss -- Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa mje at posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 Cell: +27.826010496 For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah at neo.co.tz Thu Apr 20 17:47:29 2017 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 20:47:29 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC? In-Reply-To: References: <929879ca-5e98-e8c7-6847-64008ae3dca3@posix.co.za> Message-ID: Yes its something asked for by a responsible AFRINIC otherwise any entity from anywhere [1] could request for IP resources just like that. Lets assume AFRINIC didn't ask for the business or operating license and resources were allocated to some entity, do you really think that entity would use those IP resources without being regulated somehow. Education institute are regulated by the local education ministry and for AFRINIC to give them resources they have to prove they are accredited and the same goes for Hosting/ISP/Telecoms businesses which require operating licenses either from the local regulatory authority or local business licensee. This is where the arm of the government comes into play with its powers and the issues we seems to take for granted then get complicated. Noah [1] Outside Africa with no operations in Africa. On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 6:43 PM, Andrew Alston < Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com> wrote: > I also point out that there is nothing in any AfriNIC policy that requires > an entity that is requesting space to have a license of any form, unless I > have missed it ? it may be something being asked for ? but it?s not in > policy and it?s not in the bylaws to my knowledge. > > > > If anyone knows differently, please can you show it to me ? because that?s > an issue that I?ve argued for a long time > > > > Andrew > > > > > > *From:* Mark Elkins [mailto:mje at posix.co.za] > *Sent:* 20 April 2017 16:40 > *To:* community-discuss at afrinic.net > *Subject:* Re: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any > Role for AFRINIC? > > > > > > > > On 20/04/2017 14:28, Noah wrote: > > Hi Badru > > > > People are talking about targeting executive branches of governments not > knowing that most of the shutdown that have happened in the past including > the one in Cameroon has a lot to do with the local countries politics, > policies and regulation. Some countries governments don't shutdown the > internet but they have some crazy regulations that censor the cyber space > that you would not even want to live there. > > > > For any organization to get number resources, the applicants are vetted by > AFRINIC against their countries regulations (license of operation) which > are a prerequisite for getting the IP resources from AFRINIC. This kind of > relationship has existed between AFRINIC and all regulatory bodies in all > countries that AFRINIC serve. What this basically mean is that if the > country decided to deny an entity a license to operate, that entity cant > access number resources from AFRINIC which means its only the local > regulations that determine internet development, expansion and freedom and > not AFRINIC. > > > Ah - but this is not necessarily true. In South Africa, we were getting IP > resources before there were ISP licenses. You also don't need an ISP > license to do Web Hosting - and as I understand, neither the ZACR or DNS in > South Africa have ISP licenses - but run the ccTLD between them. Both > organisations have their own address space. The same goes for JINX > (CINX/DINX) the ISPAs exchange points. No licenses. Some people with their > own infrastructure at Teraco (data warehouse) - no licenses - but they have > address space. Universities don't have licenses either. That probably holds > true for all African countries. I'd guess End users generally fall into > this category. I guess governments do too. > > AFRINIC staff use there best ability to decide on the requirements. a > License is a reasonably easy criteria to ask for but I believe that if > AFRINIC was aware that the government was not playing fair - then licenses > would not be a criteria to getting address space. However, if you apply as > an ISP and need a license but can't operate in that country - then I guess > you wouldn't need address space. > > I am sure if you have a college and apply to AFRINIC - you'll be able to > get address space. > > > Dont bite the hand that feeds you. I rest my case... > > > > Noah > > > > On 18 Apr 2017 5:44 p.m., "Badru Ntege" > wrote: > > +1 Noah well put. > > > > If we do not seek to understand through dialogue we become the same as > those forcing shutdowns where unfortunately for us in reality we have very > limited bargaining powers with a sovereign state. As much as we might want > to think otherwise. > > > > Regards > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Community-Discuss mailing list > > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > > > -- > > Mark James ELKINS - Posix Systems - (South) Africa > > mje at posix.co.za Tel: +27.128070590 <+27%2012%20807%200590> Cell: +27.826010496 <+27%2082%20601%200496> > > For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > > -- *./noah* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alan.barrett at afrinic.net Fri Apr 21 06:14:35 2017 From: alan.barrett at afrinic.net (Alan Barrett) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 10:14:35 +0400 Subject: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC? In-Reply-To: References: <929879ca-5e98-e8c7-6847-64008ae3dca3@posix.co.za> Message-ID: <2D2B634E-08A0-4D35-BBF3-290A9147C84C@afrinic.net> > On 20 Apr 2017, at 19:43, Andrew Alston wrote: > > I also point out that there is nothing in any AfriNIC policy that requires an entity that is requesting space to have a license of any form, unless I have missed it ? it may be something being asked for ? but it?s not in policy and it?s not in the bylaws to my knowledge. There?e nothing in policy or bylaws that requires any sort of licence. However, AFRINIC uses its best efforts to verify the information given in number resource requests, and asking to see relevant licences is often part of that. Alan Barrett From noah at neo.co.tz Fri Apr 21 13:10:28 2017 From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 16:10:28 +0300 Subject: [Community-Discuss] "Fighting Internet Shutdown" - Any Role for AFRINIC? In-Reply-To: <2D2B634E-08A0-4D35-BBF3-290A9147C84C@afrinic.net> References: <929879ca-5e98-e8c7-6847-64008ae3dca3@posix.co.za> <2D2B634E-08A0-4D35-BBF3-290A9147C84C@afrinic.net> Message-ID: Hi Alan The fact remains that running any sort of Internet business will always require the local country's regulations of some sort which means the power to regulate the cyber space remains with the government. Meanwhile, the Internet has been restored in Cameroon as many of you might be aware...... and the catch in that article is that the Government reserves the right to use any measures in the future to avoid the internet from causing or disrupting public disorder. French version http://crtv.cm/fr/nouvelles/top-news-24/rgions-du-nord- ouest-et-du-sud-ouest-les-connexions-internet-sont-rtablies--19138.htm Noah On Fri, Apr 21, 2017 at 9:14 AM, Alan Barrett wrote: > > > On 20 Apr 2017, at 19:43, Andrew Alston > wrote: > > > > I also point out that there is nothing in any AfriNIC policy that > requires an entity that is requesting space to have a license of any form, > unless I have missed it ? it may be something being asked for ? but it?s > not in policy and it?s not in the bylaws to my knowledge. > > There?e nothing in policy or bylaws that requires any sort of licence. > However, AFRINIC uses its best efforts to verify the information given in > number resource requests, and asking to see relevant licences is often part > of that. > > Alan Barrett > > > _______________________________________________ > Community-Discuss mailing list > Community-Discuss at afrinic.net > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss > -- *./noah* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sergekbk at gmail.com Tue Apr 25 11:48:34 2017 From: sergekbk at gmail.com (serge ilunga) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 12:48:34 +0100 Subject: [Community-Discuss] Opening of e-voting and public comments Message-ID: Dear Nomcom, I can under https://www.afrinic.net/fr/community/elections/bod-election/process, section 3: election time line: 12 May 2017 End of review period for received nominations 12 May 2017 Announcement of final candidate slate 12 May 2017 Opening of public comment period 12 May 2017 Open e-voting (& appointment of proxies) Opening of public comments and e-voting will take place the same day. I think that it would be better to take some time for public comments before opening the e-vote. Otherwise what is the purpose of public comment. Which I do understand is to give Member's time to assess candidate. Kind Regards. *Serge ILUNGA KABWIKA* *Skype: sergekbk* *Cell: +243814443160 <0814%20443%20160>* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wale at forum.org.ng Tue Apr 25 11:59:46 2017 From: wale at forum.org.ng (Wale Adedokun) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 11:59:46 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Community-Discuss] [Nomcom2017] Opening of e-voting and public comments In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1028739222.89198.1493121586876.JavaMail.zimbra@forum.org.ng> Dear Serge,thank you for yours below, your observations/suggestions are noted.NomCom2017----- serge ilunga wrote: >Dear Nomcom, I can under https://www.afrinic.net/fr/community/elections/bod-election/process, section 3: election time line: 12 May 2017 End of review period for received nominations 12 May 2017 Announcement of final candidate slate 12 May 2017 Opening of public comment period 12 May 2017 Open e-voting (& appointment of proxies) Opening of public comments and e-voting will take place the same day. I think that it would be better to take some time for public comments before opening the e-vote. Otherwise what is the purpose of public comment. Which I do understand is to give Member's time to assess candidate. Kind Regards. Serge ILUNGA KABWIKA Skype: sergekbk Cell: +243814443160 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: