[Community-Discuss] Accountability assessment - quorum

Tue Oct 4 19:44:00 UTC 2016

In many countries, and not only in Africa, people buy votes and/or vote
differently than instructed.

By limiting the number of proxies one can carry, we won't eliminate this
risk, but we would at least reduce it.

I don't understand the logic whereby somebody trusts a third party more
than him/herself? What is the electronic voting facility for?

Yes, I know some will say everybody should be given the right to vote the
way he/she wants (paper ballot paper onsite, electronic voting or proxy).
No problem with that.

But let's limit the risks by limiting the number of proxies one eligible
voter can carry. There were good reasons for putting the limit.

Boubakar

On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 7:07 PM, Hytham El-Nakhal <hytham at tra.gov.eg> wrote:

> "Talking as a community member in my personal capacity"
>
> +1 Mark,
> I support the freedom for member to choose the way to cast his vote and to
> remove the restriction on the  total number of proxies that one member can
> carry (if 100 members trust one specific member so they all have equal
> rights to issue a proxy for him).
> I understand that this restriction is applied only for members who has the
> right to vote in the meeting as per article 12.12.viii , and not applied on
> non-member person who assigned as a proxy by members as per item 12.12.i &
> ii & vii the member is free to choose anyone as a proxy, I'm not a lawyer
> but just read the articles of AFRINIC bylaws.
>
> Thanks,
> Haitham
> ________________________________________
> From: Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za>
> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2016 7:54 PM
> To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] Accountability assessment - quorum
>
> I don't think the Proxy issue would survive a legal challenge in any
> African country based on English (or Dutch) law.
>
> French law can be different but this is law about how a company operates
> and with a few minor exceptions (eg company stamps) - I'd expect this to
> be very similar the world over.
>
> I personally prefer freedom for the individual member to choose the way
> in which they want to vote, whether in person, via proxy (without
> restrictions) or via electronic voting.
>
> On 30/09/2016 19:13, Badru Ntege wrote:
> > Andrew
> >
> > On 30 Sep 2016, at 5:30 pm, Andrew Alston
> > <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com
> > <mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
> >
> >> No Omo,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Please read what Ashok said – the limitation **WILL NOT SURVIVE LEGAL
> >> CHALLENGE**
> >>
> >
> > Afrinic is a regional organisation if we are being shackled by
> > jurisdiction of registration we have 52 other jurisdictions.
> >
> > We have options. Let's remain very open and objective to what is best
> > for members.
> >
> > Consensus not legal shackles is what the Internet is built on.
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> The companies act does not ALLOW the limitation.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Andrew
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> *From: *Omo Oaiya <Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net <mailto:Omo.Oaiya at wacren.net>>
> >> *Date: *Friday, 30 September 2016 at 17:29
> >> *To: *Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com
> >> <mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>>
> >> *Cc: *Jean-Robert Hountomey <jrhountomey at gmail.com
> >> <mailto:jrhountomey at gmail.com>>, "community-discuss at afrinic.net
> >> <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>" <community-discuss at afrinic.net
> >> <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>>
> >> *Subject: *Re: [Community-Discuss] Accountability assessment - quorum
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> As you have repeated but that is by the way.  What is clear is that
> >> electronic voting has solved the issue with proxies so we don’t need
> >> them. If the companies act is restrictive and does not support better
> >> accountability, proxies can be limited to one per member to balance
> >> things out.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>     On 30 Sep 2016, at 15:22, Andrew Alston
> >>     <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com
> >>     <mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>     Jean-Robert because proxies are enshrined in the companies act and
> >>     the act explicitly states that they cannot be removed irrespective
> >>     of what a company’s bylaws / constitution says.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>     See fifth schedule section 6
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>     Andrew
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>     *From: *Jean-Robert Hountomey <jrhountomey at gmail.com
> >>     <mailto:jrhountomey at gmail.com>>
> >>     *Date: *Friday, 30 September 2016 at 17:22
> >>     *To: *"community-discuss at afrinic.net
> >>     <mailto:community-discuss at afrinic.net>"
> >>     <community-discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:community-discuss@
> afrinic.net>>
> >>     *Subject: *Re: [Community-Discuss] Accountability assessment -
> quorum
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>     Talking about Board Members election (1) and (2), why do we want to
> keep Proxies While we have Electronic voting ?
> >>
> >>     Proxies make sens when a member cannot attend the meeting in
> person, isn't what we wanted to solve with electronic voting?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>     (1) http://afrinic.net/en/community/elections/bod-election/process
> >>
> >>     (2) http://afrinic.net/en/about/agmm/participate-vote
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>     On 9/29/16 8:56 PM, Alan Barrett wrote:
> >>
> >>         On 30 Sep 2016, at 02:26, Mark Elkins <mje at posix.co.za>
> <mailto:mje at posix.co.za> wrote
> >>
> >>             The only time the Proxy Restrictions are enforced is for
> the Board
> >>
> >>             elections. Traditionally, the elections for the PDP
> Co-Chair is hands at
> >>
> >>             the meeting and the elections for the ASO-AC is by secret
> ballot by
> >>
> >>             those present.
> >>
> >>         Proxy restrictions apply to elections by the Members (Resource
> Members and Registered Members).  ASO-AC and PDWG elections are by the
> community or by the PDWG, not by the Members. Board elections and now
> Governance Committee elections are by the Members.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>         Alan Barrett
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>         _______________________________________________
> >>
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> >>
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> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>     _______________________________________________
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> >
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> —
> >>
> >> Omo Oaiya
> >> CTO/Directeur Technique, WACREN
> >> Mobile: +234 806 4522778, +221 784 305 224
> >> Skype: kodion
> >> http://www.wacren.net
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
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>
> --
> Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
> mje at posix.co.za       Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
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