From alan.barrett at afrinic.net  Fri Nov  6 11:15:21 2015
From: alan.barrett at afrinic.net (Alan Barrett)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2015 15:15:21 +0400
Subject: [Community-Discuss] IANA Numbering Services Review Committee Charter
References: <66F53927-AB8B-4BA2-AD38-600A508ACC52@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <301E1E8A-D986-499A-92E9-3E663D21ABC4@afrinic.net>

FYI.  The NRO has published the final version of the charter for the IANA Numbering Services Review Committee.

Alan Barrett

> Begin forwarded message:
> 
> From: German Valdez <german at nro.net>
> Subject: [NRO-IANAXFER] Final Version IANA Numbering Services Review Committee Charter
> Date: 6 November 2015 02:56:01 +0400
> To: <ianaxfer at nro.net>
> 
> Hi
> 
> Please refer to the last NRO announcement regarding the IANA Numbering Services Review Committee Charter
> 
> https://www.nro.net/news/final-version-iana-numbering-services-review-committee-charter
> 
> Regards
> 
> German Valdez
> NRO Secretary
> ====
> 
> On 15 January, 2015, the Consolidated RIR IANA Stewardship Proposal (CRISP) Team submitted the Internet Number Community Proposal to the request for proposals issued by the IANA Stewardship Coordination Group (ICG).
> 
> One of the key elements of the Internet Number Community Proposal, described in section III.A.4, is the establishment of a Review Committee to ensure that the service level defined in the proposed SLA for the IANA Numbering Services is maintained by the IANA Numbering Services Operator. Further description of the Review of IANA Numbering services is described in Article 8 of the draft SLA.
> 
> On 23 June the NRO EC invited all interested parties to review and comment on the draft Internet Number Community Review Committee Charter.
> 
> This draft is available at:
> 
> https://www.nro.net/review-committee-charter-v1
> 
> The final Internet Number Community ? IANA Numbering Services Review Committee Charter
> 
> As a result of the public consultation of the draft Internet Number Community Review Committee Charter, the final Internet Community ? IANA Numbering Services Review Committee Charter has been produced and is
> 
> available at:
> 
> https://www.nro.net/review-committee-charter-final
> 
> For the sake of clarity, you can find a track changes version of the first draft against the final version at:
> 
> https://www.nro.net/review-committee-charter-redline
> 
> Additionally, a document with the comments received during the consultation period and the responses is available at:
> 
> https://www.nro.net/review-committee-comments
> 
> Next steps
> 
> The RIRs thank the community for its thoughtful comments. Each RIR community may now appoint their representatives to the IANA Numbering  Services Review Committee in accordance with the Charter.
> 
> ===
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> ianaxfer mailing list
> ianaxfer at nro.net
> https://www.nro.net/mailman/listinfo/ianaxfer





From alan.barrett at afrinic.net  Fri Nov  6 11:15:59 2015
From: alan.barrett at afrinic.net (Alan Barrett)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2015 15:15:59 +0400
Subject: [Community-Discuss] IANA Numbering Services Review Committee
	appointment
References: <139BD0F3-0F48-47B2-BD8C-F678EFE1B16F@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <5694ED2B-20FF-4150-9655-D683AFD6FD66@afrinic.net>

Dear AFRINIC Community,

As part of the ongoing IANA oversight transition, the CRISP Team proposed that the RIRs should set up a Review Committee to review the performance of the IANA Numbering Services Operator.

See https://www.nro.net/wp-content/uploads/Review-Committee-Charter_FINALclean.pdf for the charter of the IANA Numbering Services Review Committee.

Note that each of the five RIRs will need to appoint three members of the Review Committee.  Here are some relevant sections from the Charter:

> 4. The Review Committee will comprise 15 members, constituted by:
> 	
> (a)  two community appointees from each RIR region (who must not be RIR staff); and
> 
> (b)  one RIR staff from the region (who will be a non-voting member).
> 
> 5. Each RIR shall appoint its Review Committee members by a method of its own choosing.
> 
> 6. Each RIR shall determine the term of appointment for its Review Committee members.

Now we need to figure out a procedure for AFRINIC to appoint the two community members and one staff member.

For the RIR staff member appointed to the Review Committee:  I propose that the CEO should appoint a staff member.

For the two community appointees, the following ideas come readily to mind:

A: The same two community members who are already elected to the NRO-NC/ASO-AC should automatically be appointed to the IANA Numbering Services Review Committee, in such a way that the same people always serve both roles.

B: We could have another election process, almost identical to the election process for the community representatives on the NRO-NC/ASO-AC, but with separate candidates and separate votes.  (Representatives are elected to staggered three-year terms.)

C: We could do something different.

In the interests of simplicity, I suggest that we choose option A, with the same people automatically serving on both the NRO-NC/ASO-AC and the IANA Numbering Services Review Committee.

This should be a community decision, so I invite discussion.  Note that any decision we make now can be changed in the future.


Alan Barrett
CEO, AFRINIC




From seun.ojedeji at gmail.com  Fri Nov  6 11:23:12 2015
From: seun.ojedeji at gmail.com (Seun Ojedeji)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2015 20:23:12 +0900
Subject: [Community-Discuss] IANA Numbering Services Review Committee
	appointment
In-Reply-To: <5694ED2B-20FF-4150-9655-D683AFD6FD66@afrinic.net>
References: <139BD0F3-0F48-47B2-BD8C-F678EFE1B16F@afrinic.net>
 <5694ED2B-20FF-4150-9655-D683AFD6FD66@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <CAD_dc6i9Mmpz439kD_=m2NGvYsQBFq7Zsg1dSDdBrNv7JK6-EQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

My +1 to option A. I also agree with the CEO appointing the staff member.

Regards

On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 8:15 PM, Alan Barrett <alan.barrett at afrinic.net>
wrote:

> Dear AFRINIC Community,
>
> As part of the ongoing IANA oversight transition, the CRISP Team proposed
> that the RIRs should set up a Review Committee to review the performance of
> the IANA Numbering Services Operator.
>
> See
> https://www.nro.net/wp-content/uploads/Review-Committee-Charter_FINALclean.pdf
> for the charter of the IANA Numbering Services Review Committee.
>
> Note that each of the five RIRs will need to appoint three members of the
> Review Committee.  Here are some relevant sections from the Charter:
>
> > 4. The Review Committee will comprise 15 members, constituted by:
> >
> > (a)  two community appointees from each RIR region (who must not be RIR
> staff); and
> >
> > (b)  one RIR staff from the region (who will be a non-voting member).
> >
> > 5. Each RIR shall appoint its Review Committee members by a method of
> its own choosing.
> >
> > 6. Each RIR shall determine the term of appointment for its Review
> Committee members.
>
> Now we need to figure out a procedure for AFRINIC to appoint the two
> community members and one staff member.
>
> For the RIR staff member appointed to the Review Committee:  I propose
> that the CEO should appoint a staff member.
>
> For the two community appointees, the following ideas come readily to mind:
>
> A: The same two community members who are already elected to the
> NRO-NC/ASO-AC should automatically be appointed to the IANA Numbering
> Services Review Committee, in such a way that the same people always serve
> both roles.
>
> B: We could have another election process, almost identical to the
> election process for the community representatives on the NRO-NC/ASO-AC,
> but with separate candidates and separate votes.  (Representatives are
> elected to staggered three-year terms.)
>
> C: We could do something different.
>
> In the interests of simplicity, I suggest that we choose option A, with
> the same people automatically serving on both the NRO-NC/ASO-AC and the
> IANA Numbering Services Review Committee.
>
> This should be a community decision, so I invite discussion.  Note that
> any decision we make now can be changed in the future.
>
>
> Alan Barrett
> CEO, AFRINIC
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>



-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------





*Seun Ojedeji,Federal University Oye-Ekitiweb:      http://www.fuoye.edu.ng
<http://www.fuoye.edu.ng> Mobile: +2348035233535**alt email:
<http://goog_1872880453>seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng
<seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng>*

Bringing another down does not take you up - think about your action!
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From seun.ojedeji at gmail.com  Fri Nov  6 11:32:18 2015
From: seun.ojedeji at gmail.com (Seun Ojedeji)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2015 20:32:18 +0900
Subject: [Community-Discuss] IANA Numbering Services Review Committee
	appointment
In-Reply-To: <CAD_dc6i9Mmpz439kD_=m2NGvYsQBFq7Zsg1dSDdBrNv7JK6-EQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <139BD0F3-0F48-47B2-BD8C-F678EFE1B16F@afrinic.net>
 <5694ED2B-20FF-4150-9655-D683AFD6FD66@afrinic.net>
 <CAD_dc6i9Mmpz439kD_=m2NGvYsQBFq7Zsg1dSDdBrNv7JK6-EQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD_dc6hV48GfwJn6L-vEMTbuu1HfhYkEuYBbvY=4rZ8zxyQX2A@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Alan,

Just as a follow-up, can i confirm that we are currently discussing
appointment models and not necessarily performing appointments which will I
believe would happen after the transition (or at least after the community
gets a green light from NTIA)

Regards

On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 8:23 PM, Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> My +1 to option A. I also agree with the CEO appointing the staff member.
>
> Regards
>
> On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 8:15 PM, Alan Barrett <alan.barrett at afrinic.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear AFRINIC Community,
>>
>> As part of the ongoing IANA oversight transition, the CRISP Team proposed
>> that the RIRs should set up a Review Committee to review the performance of
>> the IANA Numbering Services Operator.
>>
>> See
>> https://www.nro.net/wp-content/uploads/Review-Committee-Charter_FINALclean.pdf
>> for the charter of the IANA Numbering Services Review Committee.
>>
>> Note that each of the five RIRs will need to appoint three members of the
>> Review Committee.  Here are some relevant sections from the Charter:
>>
>> > 4. The Review Committee will comprise 15 members, constituted by:
>> >
>> > (a)  two community appointees from each RIR region (who must not be RIR
>> staff); and
>> >
>> > (b)  one RIR staff from the region (who will be a non-voting member).
>> >
>> > 5. Each RIR shall appoint its Review Committee members by a method of
>> its own choosing.
>> >
>> > 6. Each RIR shall determine the term of appointment for its Review
>> Committee members.
>>
>> Now we need to figure out a procedure for AFRINIC to appoint the two
>> community members and one staff member.
>>
>> For the RIR staff member appointed to the Review Committee:  I propose
>> that the CEO should appoint a staff member.
>>
>> For the two community appointees, the following ideas come readily to
>> mind:
>>
>> A: The same two community members who are already elected to the
>> NRO-NC/ASO-AC should automatically be appointed to the IANA Numbering
>> Services Review Committee, in such a way that the same people always serve
>> both roles.
>>
>> B: We could have another election process, almost identical to the
>> election process for the community representatives on the NRO-NC/ASO-AC,
>> but with separate candidates and separate votes.  (Representatives are
>> elected to staggered three-year terms.)
>>
>> C: We could do something different.
>>
>> In the interests of simplicity, I suggest that we choose option A, with
>> the same people automatically serving on both the NRO-NC/ASO-AC and the
>> IANA Numbering Services Review Committee.
>>
>> This should be a community decision, so I invite discussion.  Note that
>> any decision we make now can be changed in the future.
>>
>>
>> Alan Barrett
>> CEO, AFRINIC
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> *Seun Ojedeji,Federal University Oye-Ekitiweb:
> http://www.fuoye.edu.ng <http://www.fuoye.edu.ng> Mobile: +2348035233535**alt
> email: <http://goog_1872880453>seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng
> <seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng>*
>
> Bringing another down does not take you up - think about your action!
>
>
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------





*Seun Ojedeji,Federal University Oye-Ekitiweb:      http://www.fuoye.edu.ng
<http://www.fuoye.edu.ng> Mobile: +2348035233535**alt email:
<http://goog_1872880453>seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng
<seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng>*

Bringing another down does not take you up - think about your action!
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From sales at africhosting.com  Fri Nov  6 12:10:34 2015
From: sales at africhosting.com (Africhosting.com)
Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2015 12:10:34 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] IANA Numbering Services Review Committee
 appointment
In-Reply-To: <CAD_dc6i9Mmpz439kD_=m2NGvYsQBFq7Zsg1dSDdBrNv7JK6-EQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <139BD0F3-0F48-47B2-BD8C-F678EFE1B16F@afrinic.net>
 <5694ED2B-20FF-4150-9655-D683AFD6FD66@afrinic.net>
 <CAD_dc6i9Mmpz439kD_=m2NGvYsQBFq7Zsg1dSDdBrNv7JK6-EQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <67465b8aea9d550979bbb4e6530a8ff6@africhosting.com>

On 06.11.2015 11:23, Seun Ojedeji wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> My +1 to option A. I also agree with the CEO appointing the staff
> member.
> 
> Regards
> 
> On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 8:15 PM, Alan Barrett
> <alan.barrett at afrinic.net> wrote:
> 
>> Dear AFRINIC Community,
>> 
>> As part of the ongoing IANA oversight transition, the CRISP Team
>> proposed that the RIRs should set up a Review Committee to review
>> the performance of the IANA Numbering Services Operator.
>> 
>> See
>> 
> https://www.nro.net/wp-content/uploads/Review-Committee-Charter_FINALclean.pdf
>> [1] for the charter of the IANA Numbering Services Review Committee.
>> 
>> Note that each of the five RIRs will need to appoint three members
>> of the Review Committee.? Here are some relevant sections from the
>> Charter:
>> 
>>> 4. The Review Committee will comprise 15 members, constituted by:
>>> 
>>> (a)? two community appointees from each RIR region (who must not
>> be RIR staff); and
>>> 
>>> (b)? one RIR staff from the region (who will be a non-voting
>> member).
>>> 
>>> 5. Each RIR shall appoint its Review Committee members by a
>> method of its own choosing.
>>> 
>>> 6. Each RIR shall determine the term of appointment for its
>> Review Committee members.
>> 
>> Now we need to figure out a procedure for AFRINIC to appoint the
>> two community members and one staff member.
>> 
>> For the RIR staff member appointed to the Review Committee:? I
>> propose that the CEO should appoint a staff member.
>> 
>> For the two community appointees, the following ideas come readily
>> to mind:
>> 
>> A: The same two community members who are already elected to the
>> NRO-NC/ASO-AC should automatically be appointed to the IANA
>> Numbering Services Review Committee, in such a way that the same
>> people always serve both roles.
>> 
>> B: We could have another election process, almost identical to the
>> election process for the community representatives on the
>> NRO-NC/ASO-AC, but with separate candidates and separate votes.?
>> (Representatives are elected to staggered three-year terms.)
>> 
>> C: We could do something different.
>> 
>> In the interests of simplicity, I suggest that we choose option A,
>> with the same people automatically serving on both the NRO-NC/ASO-AC
>> and the IANA Numbering Services Review Committee.
>> 
>> This should be a community decision, so I invite discussion.? Note
>> that any decision we make now can be changed in the future.
>> 
>> Alan Barrett
>> CEO, AFRINIC
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss [2]
> 
> --
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
>> Seun Ojedeji,
>> Federal University Oye-Ekiti
>> web:? ? ? http://www.fuoye.edu.ng [3]
>> Mobile: +2348035233535
>> _alt email: [4]seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng_
>> 
>>> Bringing another down does not take you up - think about your
>>> action!
> 
> 
> 
> Links:
> ------
> [1]
> https://www.nro.net/wp-content/uploads/Review-Committee-Charter_FINALclean.pdf
> [2] https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> [3] http://www.fuoye.edu.ng
> [4] http://goog_1872880453
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
Hello,

I share your point of views, I suggest that we choose option A.

Best regards,


-- 
M. Ibra Sylla
CEO
Tel: +221 70 651 33 34
Tel: +221 77 161 38 76
Email: ibra at africhosting.com
Site web:www.africhosting.com
Facebook

Dakar SENEGAL



From ondouglas at gmail.com  Fri Nov  6 12:14:42 2015
From: ondouglas at gmail.com (Douglas Onyango)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2015 15:14:42 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] IANA Numbering Services Review Committee
	appointment
In-Reply-To: <5694ED2B-20FF-4150-9655-D683AFD6FD66@afrinic.net>
References: <139BD0F3-0F48-47B2-BD8C-F678EFE1B16F@afrinic.net>
 <5694ED2B-20FF-4150-9655-D683AFD6FD66@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <CAKWXZPb-Emj1KHiBJFMUcr2HjsGmzuEiwdydKc8gSX2Le8Avcg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Alan,
On 6 Nov 2015 14:16, "Alan Barrett" <alan.barrett at afrinic.net> wrote:
to mind:
>
> A: The same two community members who are already elected to the
NRO-NC/ASO-AC should automatically be appointed to the IANA Numbering
Services Review Committee, in such a way that the same people always serve
both roles.

Because this is supposed to be an ad hoc committee, I see no reason why the
existing ASO appointees can't serve the role.

I therefore support option A
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From alan.barrett at afrinic.net  Fri Nov  6 12:19:58 2015
From: alan.barrett at afrinic.net (Alan Barrett)
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2015 16:19:58 +0400
Subject: [Community-Discuss] IANA Numbering Services Review Committee
	appointment
In-Reply-To: <CAD_dc6hV48GfwJn6L-vEMTbuu1HfhYkEuYBbvY=4rZ8zxyQX2A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <139BD0F3-0F48-47B2-BD8C-F678EFE1B16F@afrinic.net>
 <5694ED2B-20FF-4150-9655-D683AFD6FD66@afrinic.net>
 <CAD_dc6i9Mmpz439kD_=m2NGvYsQBFq7Zsg1dSDdBrNv7JK6-EQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD_dc6hV48GfwJn6L-vEMTbuu1HfhYkEuYBbvY=4rZ8zxyQX2A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A59F1419-AE3F-4AEA-BBD6-F5F8FF07B4DB@afrinic.net>


> On 6 Nov 2015, at 15:32, Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Just as a follow-up, can i confirm that we are currently discussing appointment models and not necessarily performing appointments which will I believe would happen after the transition (or at least after the community gets a green light from NTIA)

Hi Seun,

Yes, we are currently discussing appointment models.  The actual appointments would be made some time after the RIRs sign the contract/SLA with ICANN.

Alan Barrett




From alan.barrett at afrinic.net  Sat Nov  7 12:20:51 2015
From: alan.barrett at afrinic.net (Alan Barrett)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2015 16:20:51 +0400
Subject: [Community-Discuss] IANA Numbering Services Review Committee
	appointment
In-Reply-To: <CAKWXZPb-Emj1KHiBJFMUcr2HjsGmzuEiwdydKc8gSX2Le8Avcg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <139BD0F3-0F48-47B2-BD8C-F678EFE1B16F@afrinic.net>
 <5694ED2B-20FF-4150-9655-D683AFD6FD66@afrinic.net>
 <CAKWXZPb-Emj1KHiBJFMUcr2HjsGmzuEiwdydKc8gSX2Le8Avcg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6D2B0C92-9573-4BB6-BD49-0AA632921FD8@afrinic.net>


> On 6 Nov 2015, at 16:14, Douglas Onyango <ondouglas at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Because this is supposed to be an ad hoc committee, I see no reason why the existing ASO appointees can't serve the role.
> 
> I therefore support option A

It would actually be a standing committee, meeting by teleconference at least twice per year.  See paragraphs 8 and 9 in the charter:

>> 8. The Review Committee will meet entirely via teleconference for its activities. Except as contemplated in paragraph 11, the teleconferences must be open to the public who wish to listen to the Review Committee discussions, and will be facilitated by the RIRs.
>> 
>> 9. Meetings must be held at least twice each year, and more often as required.

Alan Barrett


From ondouglas at gmail.com  Sat Nov  7 12:46:28 2015
From: ondouglas at gmail.com (Douglas Onyango)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2015 15:46:28 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] IANA Numbering Services Review Committee
	appointment
In-Reply-To: <6D2B0C92-9573-4BB6-BD49-0AA632921FD8@afrinic.net>
References: <139BD0F3-0F48-47B2-BD8C-F678EFE1B16F@afrinic.net>
 <5694ED2B-20FF-4150-9655-D683AFD6FD66@afrinic.net>
 <CAKWXZPb-Emj1KHiBJFMUcr2HjsGmzuEiwdydKc8gSX2Le8Avcg@mail.gmail.com>
 <6D2B0C92-9573-4BB6-BD49-0AA632921FD8@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <CAKWXZPY-SM_xYU=h=B1g41mmWerHv8r1L-yiY4O7CdH5Mn2GZg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Alan,
Thanks. I still think the  workload can be handled by the seating ASO
members.

Full disclosure: I am a member of the ASO.

Regards,
On 7 Nov 2015 15:21, "Alan Barrett" <alan.barrett at afrinic.net> wrote:
>
>
> > On 6 Nov 2015, at 16:14, Douglas Onyango <ondouglas at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Because this is supposed to be an ad hoc committee, I see no reason why
the existing ASO appointees can't serve the role.
> >k
> > I therefore support option A
>
> It would actually be a standing committee, meeting by teleconference at
least twice per year.  See paragraphs 8 and 9 in the charter:
>
> >> 8. The Review Committee will meet entirely via teleconference for its
activities. Except as contemplated in paragraph 11, the teleconferences
must be open to the public who wish to listen to the Review Committee
discussions, and will be facilitated by the RIRs.
> >>
> >> 9. Meetings must be held at least twice each year, and more often as
required.
>
> Alan Barrett
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
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From mje at posix.co.za  Sat Nov  7 12:54:23 2015
From: mje at posix.co.za (Mark Elkins)
Date: Sat, 07 Nov 2015 14:54:23 +0200
Subject: [Community-Discuss] IANA Numbering Services Review Committee
 appointment
In-Reply-To: <6D2B0C92-9573-4BB6-BD49-0AA632921FD8@afrinic.net>
References: <139BD0F3-0F48-47B2-BD8C-F678EFE1B16F@afrinic.net>
 <5694ED2B-20FF-4150-9655-D683AFD6FD66@afrinic.net>
 <CAKWXZPb-Emj1KHiBJFMUcr2HjsGmzuEiwdydKc8gSX2Le8Avcg@mail.gmail.com>
 <6D2B0C92-9573-4BB6-BD49-0AA632921FD8@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <1446900863.23720.21.camel@posix.co.za>

Looking at it - and to keep things reasonably simple - I'd go with
Option A - which means that Fiona and Douglas would be the initial
AFRINIC region representatives along with whomever Alan chooses.

I currently serve as the Board nominated representative on the ASO-AC.
Since joining - there have only been a few ASO-AC meetings - all but one
being teleconferences. I was quite unaware but absolutely delighted on
how well our current two Community Elected ASO-AC representatives fulfil
their role in the ASO-AC. They both volunteer for quite a lot, are quite
vocal at meetings and have the respect of other ASO-AC members. I
believe they and their future community elected successors will serve
this new additional role admirably. 

I presume a formal decision and/or announcement will be made in Pointe
Noire (if not sooner)?


On Sat, 2015-11-07 at 16:20 +0400, Alan Barrett wrote:
> > On 6 Nov 2015, at 16:14, Douglas Onyango <ondouglas at gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > Because this is supposed to be an ad hoc committee, I see no reason why the existing ASO appointees can't serve the role.
> > 
> > I therefore support option A
> 
> It would actually be a standing committee, meeting by teleconference at least twice per year.  See paragraphs 8 and 9 in the charter:
> 
> >> 8. The Review Committee will meet entirely via teleconference for its activities. Except as contemplated in paragraph 11, the teleconferences must be open to the public who wish to listen to the Review Committee discussions, and will be facilitated by the RIRs.
> >> 
> >> 9. Meetings must be held at least twice each year, and more often as required.
> 
> Alan Barrett
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

-- 
Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
mje at posix.co.za       Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
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From dogwallah at gmail.com  Sat Nov  7 15:01:49 2015
From: dogwallah at gmail.com (McTim)
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2015 10:01:49 -0500
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Fwd: IANA Numbering Services Review
	Committee appointment
In-Reply-To: <D3D6B9F9-08E1-43AA-A90D-E265253276DC@afrinic.net>
References: <5694ED2B-20FF-4150-9655-D683AFD6FD66@afrinic.net>
 <D3D6B9F9-08E1-43AA-A90D-E265253276DC@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <CACAaNxgfw+wf2Js52GZZJWxMKv3grEAsx-md5SSjB9Dc21RFMw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Alan,

Happy to go with your suggestion, it seems quite reasonable.

Regards,

McTim

On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 6:16 AM, Alan Barrett <alan.barrett at afrinic.net>
wrote:

> FYI.  Please discuss in the community-discuss list.
>
> Alan Barrett
>
> > Begin forwarded message:
> >
> > From: Alan Barrett <alan.barrett at afrinic.net>
> > Subject: IANA Numbering Services Review Committee appointment
> > Date: 6 November 2015 15:15:59 +0400
> > To: community-discuss at afrinic.net
> >
> > Dear AFRINIC Community,
> >
> > As part of the ongoing IANA oversight transition, the CRISP Team
> proposed that the RIRs should set up a Review Committee to review the
> performance of the IANA Numbering Services Operator.
> >
> > See
> https://www.nro.net/wp-content/uploads/Review-Committee-Charter_FINALclean.pdf
> for the charter of the IANA Numbering Services Review Committee.
> >
> > Note that each of the five RIRs will need to appoint three members of
> the Review Committee.  Here are some relevant sections from the Charter:
> >
> >> 4. The Review Committee will comprise 15 members, constituted by:
> >>
> >> (a)  two community appointees from each RIR region (who must not be RIR
> staff); and
> >>
> >> (b)  one RIR staff from the region (who will be a non-voting member).
> >>
> >> 5. Each RIR shall appoint its Review Committee members by a method of
> its own choosing.
> >>
> >> 6. Each RIR shall determine the term of appointment for its Review
> Committee members.
> >
> > Now we need to figure out a procedure for AFRINIC to appoint the two
> community members and one staff member.
> >
> > For the RIR staff member appointed to the Review Committee:  I propose
> that the CEO should appoint a staff member.
> >
> > For the two community appointees, the following ideas come readily to
> mind:
> >
> > A: The same two community members who are already elected to the
> NRO-NC/ASO-AC should automatically be appointed to the IANA Numbering
> Services Review Committee, in such a way that the same people always serve
> both roles.
> >
> > B: We could have another election process, almost identical to the
> election process for the community representatives on the NRO-NC/ASO-AC,
> but with separate candidates and separate votes.  (Representatives are
> elected to staggered three-year terms.)
> >
> > C: We could do something different.
> >
> > In the interests of simplicity, I suggest that we choose option A, with
> the same people automatically serving on both the NRO-NC/ASO-AC and the
> IANA Numbering Services Review Committee.
> >
> > This should be a community decision, so I invite discussion.  Note that
> any decision we make now can be changed in the future.
> >
> >
> > Alan Barrett
> > CEO, AFRINIC
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> RPD mailing list
> RPD at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/rpd
>



-- 
Cheers,

McTim
"A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route
indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel
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From sunday.folayan at afrinic.net  Mon Nov 23 08:08:20 2015
From: sunday.folayan at afrinic.net (Sunday Folayan)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 09:08:20 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd November 2015
Message-ID: <5652C974.8010304@afrinic.net>

*

Dear Members,


Permit me to update you on some important issues regarding our
organization.


1. Audit Report

The Board will meet on Tuesday 24th November 2015 to approve the Audit
Report. It will be released to the Community, preparatory to our SGMM in
Point Noire. Sincere Apologies from the Board that we will not be
releasing the report before that date.


2. Governance Committee

As requested by members, GC will be discussed in Point Noire. Due to
work pressure on Management, the task of synthesizing the various views
and discussions so far on the subject, has only recently been completed.
The CEO has provided the Board with a revised draft of the Governance
Committee Terms of Reference, and the Board expects to make it public
within the next week.


3. Point Noire Meeting

Preparatory to our meeting in Point Noire, *t*he Notice of Meeting and
t*he *Agenda has already been circulated to:

*

* Resource Members* Registered Members

* Associate Members

* Company Secretary* Auditor

*

*I*t is important to remind us all, that terror has really taken hold of
the world, and fear is the major merchandize being peddled by these
terrorists. The global media is also not helping matters with the way
these are graphically relayed all over the world.


The recent bombing in Paris has further underscored the fact that there
is no safe place in the world. We just must all be courageous to live
our lives.


*AFRINIC has commissioned a site assessment from a reputable security
company, and their report is available at
<https://meeting.afrinic.net/afrinic-23/en/travel-kit/security-assessment>.****The
Board is exploring ways and measures to make us all safe during the
meeting.*

Please do come to the meeting in Point Noire, but by all means if you
cannot come, please make sure you participate remotely.


Sincerely,


Sunday Folayan

Chair, AFRINIC Board *
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From seun.ojedeji at gmail.com  Mon Nov 23 09:15:13 2015
From: seun.ojedeji at gmail.com (Seun Ojedeji)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 10:15:13 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd November 2015
In-Reply-To: <5652C974.8010304@afrinic.net>
References: <5652C974.8010304@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <CAD_dc6i0XHNOHvXMTnvMrJMK_vaOi=puMDPCgHbKm=kxHOC5Mw@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Chair,

Thanks for your mail, from your information it means the audit report will
be available tomorrow (the 24th) once the board concludes its meeting.
While it would have been good to have this much more earlier than now, i
guess a day of patience is still in order considering where we are coming
from.

That said, can you confirm if all the meeting minutes have now been
published as that was one of the task that the board committed to
addressing. On the last point about sighting Paris instance, I don't think
we need Paris to be bombed before we know there is security concerns as
places closer to us has been experiencing terrorist attack by the day and
we have been doing our thing without this much security awareness PR[1]. I
value my life but we should not scare ourselves un-necessarily, and
certainly the scare should not be as a result of incidents that happened in
foreign territories.

Regards
1. Anyone who was in Djibouti would recall what happened.


On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 9:08 AM, Sunday Folayan <sunday.folayan at afrinic.net>
wrote:

>
>
>
>
> * Dear Members, Permit me to update you on some important issues regarding
> our organization. 1. Audit Report The Board will meet on Tuesday 24th
> November 2015 to approve the Audit Report. It will be released to the
> Community, preparatory to our SGMM in Point Noire. Sincere Apologies from
> the Board that we will not be releasing the report before that date. 2.
> Governance Committee As requested by members, GC will be discussed in Point
> Noire. Due to work pressure on Management, the task of synthesizing the
> various views and discussions so far on the subject, has only recently been
> completed. The CEO has provided the Board with a revised draft of the
> Governance Committee Terms of Reference, and the Board expects to make it
> public within the next week. 3. Point Noire Meeting Preparatory to our
> meeting in Point Noire, the Notice of Meeting and the Agenda has already
> been circulated to: *
>
> * Resource Members * Registered Members
>
> * Associate Members
>
> * Company Secretary * Auditor
>
>
>
> * It is important to remind us all, that terror has really taken hold of
> the world, and fear is the major merchandize being peddled by these
> terrorists. The global media is also not helping matters with the way these
> are graphically relayed all over the world. The recent bombing in Paris has
> further underscored the fact that there is no safe place in the world. We
> just must all be courageous to live our lives. *AFRINIC has commissioned
> a site assessment from a reputable security company, and their report is
> available at
> <https://meeting.afrinic.net/afrinic-23/en/travel-kit/security-assessment>
> <https://meeting.afrinic.net/afrinic-23/en/travel-kit/security-assessment>
> .
>
>
>
> * The Board is exploring ways and measures to make us all safe during the
> meeting. Please do come to the meeting in Point Noire, but by all means if
> you cannot come, please make sure you participate remotely. Sincerely,
> Sunday Folayan Chair, AFRINIC Board *
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------





*Seun Ojedeji,Federal University Oye-Ekitiweb:      http://www.fuoye.edu.ng
<http://www.fuoye.edu.ng> Mobile: +2348035233535**alt email:
<http://goog_1872880453>seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng
<seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng>*

Bringing another down does not take you up - think about your action!
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From tespok at tespok.co.ke  Mon Nov 23 09:45:28 2015
From: tespok at tespok.co.ke (Fiona Asonga)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 12:45:28 +0300 (EAT)
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update
	23rd	November 2015
In-Reply-To: <CAD_dc6i0XHNOHvXMTnvMrJMK_vaOi=puMDPCgHbKm=kxHOC5Mw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5652C974.8010304@afrinic.net>
 <CAD_dc6i0XHNOHvXMTnvMrJMK_vaOi=puMDPCgHbKm=kxHOC5Mw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <139630360.34248.1448271928367.JavaMail.zimbra@tespok.co.ke>

Dear Chair 

Thanks for the update. Members of the community will be happy to see progress made since our last meeting and not having to repeat the same discussion we had the last time. We really hope the board will be prepared and look forward to a fruitful meeting. 

Kind regards 


----- Original Message -----

From: "Seun Ojedeji" <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com> 
To: "General Discussions of AFRINIC" <community-discuss at afrinic.net> 
Cc: "AfriNIC Discuss" <members-discuss at afrinic.net> 
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2015 12:15:13 PM 
Subject: Re: [members-discuss] [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd November 2015 

Dear Chair, 

Thanks for your mail, from your information it means the audit report will be available tomorrow (the 24th) once the board concludes its meeting. While it would have been good to have this much more earlier than now, i guess a day of patience is still in order considering where we are coming from. 

That said, can you confirm if all the meeting minutes have now been published as that was one of the task that the board committed to addressing. On the last point about sighting Paris instance, I don't think we need Paris to be bombed before we know there is security concerns as places closer to us has been experiencing terrorist attack by the day and we have been doing our thing without this much security awareness PR[1]. I value my life but we should not scare ourselves un-necessarily, and certainly the scare should not be as a result of incidents that happened in foreign territories. 

Regards 
1. Anyone who was in Djibouti would recall what happened. 


On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 9:08 AM, Sunday Folayan < sunday.folayan at afrinic.net > wrote: 





Dear Members, 


Permit me to update you on some important issues regarding our organization. 


1. Audit Report 

The Board will meet on Tuesday 24th November 2015 to approve the Audit Report. It will be released to the Community, preparatory to our SGMM in Point Noire. Sincere Apologies from the Board that we will not be releasing the report before that date. 


2. Governance Committee 

As requested by members, GC will be discussed in Point Noire. Due to work pressure on Management, the task of synthesizing the various views and discussions so far on the subject, has only recently been completed. The CEO has provided the Board with a revised draft of the Governance Committee Terms of Reference, and the Board expects to make it public within the next week. 


3. Point Noire Meeting 

Preparatory to our meeting in Point Noire, t he Notice of Meeting and t he Agenda has already been circulated to: 

* Resource Members * Registered Members 

* Associate Members 

* Company Secretary * Auditor 



I t is important to remind us all, that terror has really taken hold of the world, and fear is the major merchandize being peddled by these terrorists. The global media is also not helping matters with the way these are graphically relayed all over the world. 


The recent bombing in Paris has further underscored the fact that there is no safe place in the world. We just must all be courageous to live our lives. 
AFRINIC has commissioned a site assessment from a reputable security company, and their report is available at <https://meeting.afrinic.net/afrinic-23/en/travel-kit/security-assessment> . The Board is exploring ways and measures to make us all safe during the meeting. 



Please do come to the meeting in Point Noire, but by all means if you cannot come, please make sure you participate remotely. 


Sincerely, 


Sunday Folayan Chair, AFRINIC Board 

_______________________________________________ 
Community-Discuss mailing list 
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net 
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss 







-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 

<blockquote>
Seun Ojedeji, 
Federal University Oye-Ekiti 
web: http://www.fuoye.edu.ng 
Mobile: +2348035233535 
alt email: seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng 


<blockquote>
Bringing another down does not take you up - think about your action! 

</blockquote>

</blockquote>


_______________________________________________ 
Members-Discuss mailing list 
Members-Discuss at afrinic.net 
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss 

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From badru.ntege at nftconsult.com  Mon Nov 23 10:35:45 2015
From: badru.ntege at nftconsult.com (Badru Ntege)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 13:35:45 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
Message-ID: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>

Hi Fiona



On 11/23/15, 12:45 PM, "Fiona Asonga" <tespok at tespok.co.ke> wrote:

Dear Chair

Thanks for the update. Members of the community will be happy to see progress made since our last meeting and not having to repeat the same discussion we had the last time. We really hope the board will be prepared and look forward to a fruitful meeting. 

You see even hope has its limitations.

Notice should have been 14 days and not 3 as per 12.2 of the bylaws.  

May be we should pray and not just hope.  You never know some miracles might happen.

Just the sceptic on me.  (some might want to read it as septic :-) )





Kind regards


From: "Seun Ojedeji" <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com>
To: "General Discussions of AFRINIC" <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
Cc: "AfriNIC Discuss" <members-discuss at afrinic.net>
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2015 12:15:13 PM
Subject: Re: [members-discuss] [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd        November 2015

Dear Chair,

Thanks for your mail, from your information it means the audit report will be available tomorrow (the 24th) once the board concludes its meeting. While it would have been good to have this much more earlier than now, i guess a day of patience is still in order considering where we are coming from.

That said, can you confirm if all the meeting minutes have now been published as that was one of the task that the board committed to addressing. On the last point about sighting Paris instance, I don't think we need Paris to be bombed before we know there is security concerns as places closer to us has been experiencing terrorist attack by the day and we have been doing our thing without this much security awareness PR[1]. I value my life but we should not scare ourselves un-necessarily, and certainly the scare should not be as a result of incidents that happened in foreign territories. 

Regards
1. Anyone who was in Djibouti would recall what happened.


On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 9:08 AM, Sunday Folayan <sunday.folayan at afrinic.net> wrote:
    
   

Dear Members,
 
 

Permit me to update you on some important issues regarding our organization. 
 
 

1. Audit Report
 

The Board will meet on Tuesday 24th November 2015 to approve the Audit Report. It will be released to the Community, preparatory to our SGMM in Point Noire. Sincere Apologies from the Board that we will not be releasing the report before that date. 
 
 

2. Governance Committee
 

As requested by members, GC will be discussed in Point Noire. Due to work pressure on Management, the task of synthesizing the various views and discussions so far on the subject, has only recently been completed. The CEO has provided the Board with a revised draft of the Governance Committee Terms of Reference, and the Board expects to make it public within the next week.
 
 

3. Point Noire Meeting
 

Preparatory to our meeting in Point Noire, the Notice of Meeting and the Agenda has already been circulated to: 
  

* Resource Members * Registered Members
 

 * Associate Members
 

 * Company Secretary * Auditor
 

  

It is important to remind us all, that terror has really taken hold of the world, and fear is the major merchandize being peddled by these terrorists. The global media is also not helping matters with the way these are graphically relayed all over the world.
 
 

The recent bombing in Paris has further underscored the fact that there is no safe place in the world. We just must all be courageous to live our lives.
 
 AFRINIC has commissioned a site assessment from a reputable security company, and their report is available at <https://meeting.afrinic.net/afrinic-23/en/travel-kit/security-assessment>. The Board is exploring ways and measures to make us all safe during the meeting.
 
 

Please do come to the meeting in Point Noire, but by all means if you cannot come, please make sure you participate remotely.
 
 

Sincerely,
 
 

Sunday Folayan
 Chair, AFRINIC Board 
 

_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss




-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seun Ojedeji,
Federal University Oye-Ekiti
web:      http://www.fuoye.edu.ng
Mobile: +2348035233535
alt email: seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng

Bringing another down does not take you up - think about your action!


_______________________________________________
Members-Discuss mailing list
Members-Discuss at afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss

_______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss 

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From noah at neo.co.tz  Mon Nov 23 10:39:39 2015
From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 13:39:39 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
In-Reply-To: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqgTWbBXUzEm0w8JHDTddexL94puBzHd=V6kvqj+cLQaWVOHA@mail.gmail.com>

T.I.A #This-is-africa........
On 23 Nov 2015 13:36, "Badru Ntege" <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com> wrote:

> Hi Fiona
>
>
>
> On 11/23/15, 12:45 PM, "Fiona Asonga" <tespok at tespok.co.ke> wrote:
>
> Dear Chair
>
> Thanks for the update. Members of the community will be happy to see
> progress made since our last meeting and not having to repeat the same
> discussion we had the last time. We really hope the board will be prepared
> and look forward to a fruitful meeting.
>
>
> You see even hope has its limitations.
>
> Notice should have been 14 days and not 3 as per 12.2 of the bylaws.
>
> May be we should pray and not just hope.  You never know some miracles
> might happen.
>
> Just the sceptic on me.  (some might want to read it as septic :-) )
>
>
>
>
>
> Kind regards
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Seun Ojedeji" <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com>
> *To: *"General Discussions of AFRINIC" <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> *Cc: *"AfriNIC Discuss" <members-discuss at afrinic.net>
> *Sent: *Monday, November 23, 2015 12:15:13 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [members-discuss] [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Update
> 23rd        November 2015
>
> Dear Chair,
>
> Thanks for your mail, from your information it means the audit report will
> be available tomorrow (the 24th) once the board concludes its meeting.
> While it would have been good to have this much more earlier than now, i
> guess a day of patience is still in order considering where we are coming
> from.
>
> That said, can you confirm if all the meeting minutes have now been
> published as that was one of the task that the board committed to
> addressing. On the last point about sighting Paris instance, I don't think
> we need Paris to be bombed before we know there is security concerns as
> places closer to us has been experiencing terrorist attack by the day and
> we have been doing our thing without this much security awareness PR[1]. I
> value my life but we should not scare ourselves un-necessarily, and
> certainly the scare should not be as a result of incidents that happened in
> foreign territories.
>
> Regards
> 1. Anyone who was in Djibouti would recall what happened.
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 9:08 AM, Sunday Folayan <
> sunday.folayan at afrinic.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> * Dear Members, Permit me to update you on some important issues
>> regarding our organization. 1. Audit Report The Board will meet on Tuesday
>> 24th November 2015 to approve the Audit Report. It will be released to the
>> Community, preparatory to our SGMM in Point Noire. Sincere Apologies from
>> the Board that we will not be releasing the report before that date. 2.
>> Governance Committee As requested by members, GC will be discussed in Point
>> Noire. Due to work pressure on Management, the task of synthesizing the
>> various views and discussions so far on the subject, has only recently been
>> completed. The CEO has provided the Board with a revised draft of the
>> Governance Committee Terms of Reference, and the Board expects to make it
>> public within the next week. 3. Point Noire Meeting Preparatory to our
>> meeting in Point Noire, the Notice of Meeting and the Agenda has already
>> been circulated to: *
>>
>> * Resource Members * Registered Members
>>
>> * Associate Members
>>
>> * Company Secretary * Auditor
>>
>>
>>
>> * It is important to remind us all, that terror has really taken hold of
>> the world, and fear is the major merchandize being peddled by these
>> terrorists. The global media is also not helping matters with the way these
>> are graphically relayed all over the world. The recent bombing in Paris has
>> further underscored the fact that there is no safe place in the world. We
>> just must all be courageous to live our lives. *AFRINIC has commissioned
>> a site assessment from a reputable security company, and their report is
>> available at
>> <https://meeting.afrinic.net/afrinic-23/en/travel-kit/security-assessment>
>> <https://meeting.afrinic.net/afrinic-23/en/travel-kit/security-assessment>
>> .
>>
>>
>>
>> * The Board is exploring ways and measures to make us all safe during the
>> meeting. Please do come to the meeting in Point Noire, but by all means if
>> you cannot come, please make sure you participate remotely. Sincerely,
>> Sunday Folayan Chair, AFRINIC Board *
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
> *Seun Ojedeji,Federal University Oye-Ekitiweb:
> http://www.fuoye.edu.ng <http://www.fuoye.edu.ng>Mobile: +2348035233535**alt
> email: <http://goog_1872880453>seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng
> <seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng>*
>
> Bringing another down does not take you up - think about your action!
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Members-Discuss mailing list
> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
>
> _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing
> list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
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From sunday.folayan at afrinic.net  Mon Nov 23 10:48:42 2015
From: sunday.folayan at afrinic.net (Sunday Folayan)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 11:48:42 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
In-Reply-To: <CAD_dc6i0XHNOHvXMTnvMrJMK_vaOi=puMDPCgHbKm=kxHOC5Mw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5652C974.8010304@afrinic.net>
 <CAD_dc6i0XHNOHvXMTnvMrJMK_vaOi=puMDPCgHbKm=kxHOC5Mw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5652EF0A.3050206@afrinic.net>

Dear Mr Ojedeji,

Please see my response inset:

On 23/11/2015 10:15, Seun Ojedeji wrote:
> Dear Chair,
>
> Thanks for your mail, from your information it means the audit report will
> be available tomorrow (the 24th) once the board concludes its meeting.

Yes.
> While it would have been good to have this much more earlier than now, i
> guess a day of patience is still in order considering where we are coming
> from.

Thank You.

> That said, can you confirm if all the meeting minutes have now been
> published as that was one of the task that the board committed to
> addressing. 

This is work in progress and almost complete.

> On the last point about sighting Paris instance, I don't think
> we need Paris to be bombed before we know there is security concerns as
> places closer to us has been experiencing terrorist attack by the day and
> we have been doing our thing without this much security awareness PR[1].

Please read the entire statement as a whole. The reference to Paris was
in a certain context.

>  I value my life but we should not scare ourselves un-necessarily, and
> certainly the scare should not be as a result of incidents that happened in
> foreign territories.

My statement never said nor inferred that. As the Chair, I have made the
statement to reassure members, and the entire statement should be read
as a statement, not as a political statement.

Kind Regards ...

SF.

>
> Regards
> 1. Anyone who was in Djibouti would recall what happened.
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 9:08 AM, Sunday Folayan <sunday.folayan at afrinic.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> * Dear Members, Permit me to update you on some important issues regarding
>> our organization. 1. Audit Report The Board will meet on Tuesday 24th
>> November 2015 to approve the Audit Report. It will be released to the
>> Community, preparatory to our SGMM in Point Noire. Sincere Apologies from
>> the Board that we will not be releasing the report before that date. 2.
>> Governance Committee As requested by members, GC will be discussed in Point
>> Noire. Due to work pressure on Management, the task of synthesizing the
>> various views and discussions so far on the subject, has only recently been
>> completed. The CEO has provided the Board with a revised draft of the
>> Governance Committee Terms of Reference, and the Board expects to make it
>> public within the next week. 3. Point Noire Meeting Preparatory to our
>> meeting in Point Noire, the Notice of Meeting and the Agenda has already
>> been circulated to: *
>>
>> * Resource Members * Registered Members
>>
>> * Associate Members
>>
>> * Company Secretary * Auditor
>>
>>
>>
>> * It is important to remind us all, that terror has really taken hold of
>> the world, and fear is the major merchandize being peddled by these
>> terrorists. The global media is also not helping matters with the way these
>> are graphically relayed all over the world. The recent bombing in Paris has
>> further underscored the fact that there is no safe place in the world. We
>> just must all be courageous to live our lives. *AFRINIC has commissioned
>> a site assessment from a reputable security company, and their report is
>> available at
>> <https://meeting.afrinic.net/afrinic-23/en/travel-kit/security-assessment>
>> <https://meeting.afrinic.net/afrinic-23/en/travel-kit/security-assessment>
>> .
>>
>>
>>
>> * The Board is exploring ways and measures to make us all safe during the
>> meeting. Please do come to the meeting in Point Noire, but by all means if
>> you cannot come, please make sure you participate remotely. Sincerely,
>> Sunday Folayan Chair, AFRINIC Board *
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Members-Discuss mailing list
> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss

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From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com  Mon Nov 23 11:11:29 2015
From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 11:11:29 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
In-Reply-To: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
Message-ID: <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>

Hi All,

Firstly, let me state my apologies for my silence of late, due to circumstances beyond my control I have been largely out of contact for the purposes of AfriNIC business for the better part of 2 months.  It is important to note that the terms of reference require that the audit committee act unanimously, and this could not happen over this period, hence certain delays, which again, I apologise for.

Please rest assured that a lot of work has gone in since Tunis into ensuring that the information that is provided to the community is accurate and a fair representation.  I would rather such information was provided slightly delayed than contained inaccuracies or disputed pointed, and as a result, the work has taken a significant amount of time, due to the care and thoroughness applied.

Lastly, Badru, you make reference to 3 days instead of 14 days.  I point out that the notice of the SGMM was published on the 20th of November 2014, for an SGMM that is scheduled for the 3rd of December.  By my calculations, 3 days would mean that the SGMM is on the 23rd of November, so you seem to have misplaced 11 days.  Hence, while you refer to a section in the bylaws that references ANNUAL general meetings, rather that SPECIAL general meetings, if you choose to conflate the two (and there is reason within the companies act why you should not do that), even under these circumstances the timelines have been met.

Thanks

Andrew Alston
Chair ? Audit Committee

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From sunday.folayan at afrinic.net  Mon Nov 23 11:15:46 2015
From: sunday.folayan at afrinic.net (Sunday Folayan)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 12:15:46 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
In-Reply-To: <139630360.34248.1448271928367.JavaMail.zimbra@tespok.co.ke>
References: <5652C974.8010304@afrinic.net>
 <CAD_dc6i0XHNOHvXMTnvMrJMK_vaOi=puMDPCgHbKm=kxHOC5Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <139630360.34248.1448271928367.JavaMail.zimbra@tespok.co.ke>
Message-ID: <5652F562.6000701@afrinic.net>

On 23/11/2015 10:45, Fiona Asonga wrote:
> Dear Chair
>
> Thanks for the update. Members of the community will be happy to see progress 
> made since our last meeting and not having to repeat the same discussion we had 
> the last time. We really hope the board will be prepared and look forward to a 
> fruitful meeting.

This is noted. Thank you Fiona.

Available and at the disposal of the community.

Sunday.



From badru.ntege at nftconsult.com  Mon Nov 23 11:26:24 2015
From: badru.ntege at nftconsult.com (Badru Ntege)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 14:26:24 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
In-Reply-To: <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
Message-ID: <3380710B-F06E-458F-AFA2-9D630C1A6194@nftconsult.com>

Andrew

Comments inline

On 11/23/15, 2:11 PM, "Andrew Alston" <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com> wrote:

Hi All,

Firstly, let me state my apologies for my silence of late, due to circumstances beyond my control I have been largely out of contact for the purposes of AfriNIC business for the better part of 2 months.  It is important to note that the terms of reference require that the audit committee act unanimously, and this could not happen over this period, hence certain delays, which again, I apologise for.

Could we be lead to assume that you do not have enough time to serve Afrinic.  We do totally understand that Afrinic is purely voluntary and if your primary assignments have become too demanding, mechanisms of relieving the workload do exist.  I?m sure chair is fully aware of these so we do not have to elaborate.


Please rest assured that a lot of work has gone in since Tunis into ensuring that the information that is provided to the community is accurate and a fair representation.  I would rather such information was provided slightly delayed than contained inaccuracies or disputed pointed, and as a result, the work has taken a significant amount of time, due to the care and thoroughness applied.

The above in a way is in contradiction to your pre-ceeding statement which referred to conflicting priorities.


Lastly, Badru, you make reference to 3 days instead of 14 days.  I point out that the notice of the SGMM was published on the 20th of November 2014, for an SGMM that is scheduled for the 3rd of December.  By my calculations, 3 days would mean that the SGMM is on the 23rd of November, so you seem to have misplaced 11 days.  Hence, while you refer to a section in the bylaws that references ANNUAL general meetings, rather that SPECIAL general meetings, if you choose to conflate the two (and there is reason within the companies act why you should not do that), even under these circumstances the timelines have been met.

My reference to the 3 days was to the information provided by Chair in the earlier email.  However once again this is subjective based on ones paradigm.



Thanks

Andrew Alston
Chair ? Audit Committee

_______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss 

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From Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com  Mon Nov 23 11:32:01 2015
From: Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com (Andrew Alston)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 11:32:01 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
In-Reply-To: <3380710B-F06E-458F-AFA2-9D630C1A6194@nftconsult.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <3380710B-F06E-458F-AFA2-9D630C1A6194@nftconsult.com>
Message-ID: <2CFC20AA-64C2-4874-9079-CD9C281BFBD9@liquidtelecom.com>

> Could we be lead to assume that you do not have enough time to serve Afrinic.  We do totally understand that Afrinic is purely voluntary and if your primary assignments have become too demanding, mechanisms of relieving the workload do exist.
> I?m sure chair is fully aware of these so we do not have to elaborate.

Not at all ? in anyone?s time on this earth, sometimes extremely abnormal situations crop up and things happen.  It?s called exigent circumstances.



Please rest assured that a lot of work has gone in since Tunis into ensuring that the information that is provided to the community is accurate and a fair representation.  I would rather such information was provided slightly delayed than contained inaccuracies or disputed pointed, and as a result, the work has taken a significant amount of time, due to the care and thoroughness applied.

> The above in a way is in contradiction to your pre-ceeding statement which referred to conflicting priorities.

Again, not at all, the work that has gone in started the day that Tunis ended.  A substantial amount of work was put in during this time.


Lastly, Badru, you make reference to 3 days instead of 14 days.  I point out that the notice of the SGMM was published on the 20th of November 2014, for an SGMM that is scheduled for the 3rd of December.  By my calculations, 3 days would mean that the SGMM is on the 23rd of November, so you seem to have misplaced 11 days.  Hence, while you refer to a section in the bylaws that references ANNUAL general meetings, rather that SPECIAL general meetings, if you choose to conflate the two (and there is reason within the companies act why you should not do that), even under these circumstances the timelines have been met.

> My reference to the 3 days was to the information provided by Chair in the earlier email.  However once again this is subjective based on ones paradigm.

You made reference to article 12.2 of by the bylaws.  The only requirement under 12.2 of the bylaws is to publish the SGMM agenda, and this was met, therefore your statement was inaccurate.




Thanks

Andrew Alston
Chair ? Audit Committee

_______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
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From sunday.folayan at afrinic.net  Mon Nov 23 11:34:24 2015
From: sunday.folayan at afrinic.net (Sunday Folayan)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 12:34:24 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
In-Reply-To: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
Message-ID: <5652F9C0.2000602@afrinic.net>

Dear Badru,

On 23/11/2015 11:35, Badru Ntege wrote:
>  Notice should have been 14 days and not 3 as per 12.2 of the bylaws.  

I am not sure where your number 3 is coming from. Worse that you are
quoting the bylaws.

Kindly note that the notice was sent out within the specified period of
14 days. It was sent on the 19th of November, which is clearly 14 days
relative to the day of the meeting, which is 3rd December 2015.

> > > May be we should pray and not just hope.  You never know some
miracles might happen. > > Just the sceptic on me.  (some might want to
read it as septic :-) )

Than you for the sustained confidence in the Board, and thank you for
the Prayers.

Sunday.

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From noah at neo.co.tz  Mon Nov 23 11:38:44 2015
From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 14:38:44 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
In-Reply-To: <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqgTWZwOZnz1Cn2paUCftozw9wNwwd8qGgM_fw-2s36JvrsgA@mail.gmail.com>

I personally look forward to the way where we shall not need to remind
anyone of delays or be given an excuse or apologies for
everything...........

Noah
On 23 Nov 2015 14:12, "Andrew Alston" <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Firstly, let me state my apologies for my silence of late, due to
> circumstances beyond my control I have been largely out of contact for the
> purposes of AfriNIC business for the better part of 2 months.  It is
> important to note that the terms of reference require that the audit
> committee act unanimously, and this could not happen over this period,
> hence certain delays, which again, I apologise for.
>
> Please rest assured that a lot of work has gone in since Tunis into
> ensuring that the information that is provided to the community is accurate
> and a fair representation.  I would rather such information was provided
> slightly delayed than contained inaccuracies or disputed pointed, and as a
> result, the work has taken a significant amount of time, due to the care
> and thoroughness applied.
>
> Lastly, Badru, you make reference to 3 days instead of 14 days.  I point
> out that the notice of the SGMM was published on the 20th of November 2014,
> for an SGMM that is scheduled for the 3rd of December.  By my calculations,
> 3 days would mean that the SGMM is on the 23rd of November, so you seem to
> have misplaced 11 days.  Hence, while you refer to a section in the bylaws
> that references ANNUAL general meetings, rather that SPECIAL general
> meetings, if you choose to conflate the two (and there is reason within the
> companies act why you should not do that), even under these circumstances
> the timelines have been met.
>
> Thanks
>
> Andrew Alston
> Chair ? Audit Committee
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
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From badru.ntege at nftconsult.com  Mon Nov 23 12:01:27 2015
From: badru.ntege at nftconsult.com (Badru Ntege)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 15:01:27 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
In-Reply-To: <CAEqgTWZwOZnz1Cn2paUCftozw9wNwwd8qGgM_fw-2s36JvrsgA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <CAEqgTWZwOZnz1Cn2paUCftozw9wNwwd8qGgM_fw-2s36JvrsgA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <B2D345F1-206B-4F7C-9B99-C3A8F97FA79C@nftconsult.com>

Members 

On 11/23/15, 2:38 PM, "Noah" <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:


I personally look forward to the way where we shall not need to remind anyone of delays or be given an excuse or apologies for everything...........

Its called ACCOUNTABILITY.  And in management we call it a culture of accountability.  

So Noah what you and all the community are looking for is a move away from a culture of excuses and blame to a culture of real accountability.  

And we all know that at the end of the day you cannot talk or write yourself out of a poor performance situation but you have to behave yourself out of it.

The sad thing about this is that we have a passionate and dedicated workforce being let down by the top.   We can create all manners of documents and policies but it takes people to deliver and excecute.  

The answer is not getting the policies and documents right the answer is getting the people right.  

One thing I know having worked with them the team in Mauritius is RIGHT.  

What I?m not sure about is the rest but will leave to deduction.


Regards 

BN




Noah

On 23 Nov 2015 14:12, "Andrew Alston" <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com> wrote:
Hi All,

Firstly, let me state my apologies for my silence of late, due to circumstances beyond my control I have been largely out of contact for the purposes of AfriNIC business for the better part of 2 months.  It is important to note that the terms of reference require that the audit committee act unanimously, and this could not happen over this period, hence certain delays, which again, I apologise for.

Please rest assured that a lot of work has gone in since Tunis into ensuring that the information that is provided to the community is accurate and a fair representation.  I would rather such information was provided slightly delayed than contained inaccuracies or disputed pointed, and as a result, the work has taken a significant amount of time, due to the care and thoroughness applied.

Lastly, Badru, you make reference to 3 days instead of 14 days.  I point out that the notice of the SGMM was published on the 20th of November 2014, for an SGMM that is scheduled for the 3rd of December.  By my calculations, 3 days would mean that the SGMM is on the 23rd of November, so you seem to have misplaced 11 days.  Hence, while you refer to a section in the bylaws that references ANNUAL general meetings, rather that SPECIAL general meetings, if you choose to conflate the two (and there is reason within the companies act why you should not do that), even under these circumstances the timelines have been met.

Thanks

Andrew Alston
Chair ? Audit Committee


_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

_______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss 

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From badru.ntege at nftconsult.com  Mon Nov 23 12:10:31 2015
From: badru.ntege at nftconsult.com (Badru Ntege)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 15:10:31 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
In-Reply-To: <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
Message-ID: <D1CD131E-03B3-48FD-AD35-0EDED4563171@nftconsult.com>


Andrew 


 Lastly, Badru, you make reference to 3 days instead of 14 days.  I point out that the notice of the SGMM was published on the 20th of November 2014, for an SGMM that is scheduled for the 3rd of December.  By my calculations, 3 days would mean that the SGMM is on the 23rd of November, so you seem to have misplaced 11 days.  Hence, while you refer to a section in the bylaws that references ANNUAL general meetings, rather that SPECIAL general meetings, if you choose to conflate the two (and there is reason within the companies act why you should not do that), even under these circumstances the timelines have been met.

Allow me to quote from the bylaws 

d) the nature of the business to be transacted at the Annual General Members? Meeting in sufficient detail to enable a Member to form a reasoned judgment in relation to it; and???

So the above happened 3 days to the event.   Thus my point about subjectivity.  To board what was released on 20th November covered (d) above.

To most reasonable people it did not.  Totally depends on how you see your  mandate to the community you were elected to serve.  And if at all the community matters to you.


Regards 

BN


 

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From sunday.folayan at afrinic.net  Mon Nov 23 12:25:42 2015
From: sunday.folayan at afrinic.net (Sunday Folayan)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 13:25:42 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Caution on Language and Intent
In-Reply-To: <B2D345F1-206B-4F7C-9B99-C3A8F97FA79C@nftconsult.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <CAEqgTWZwOZnz1Cn2paUCftozw9wNwwd8qGgM_fw-2s36JvrsgA@mail.gmail.com>
 <B2D345F1-206B-4F7C-9B99-C3A8F97FA79C@nftconsult.com>
Message-ID: <565305C6.9090104@afrinic.net>

Dear Mr. Ntege,

Please do not descend too low to set the staff against the Board. Some
issues need wisdom, while others need caution. This requires both.

Do not present yourself as being wanting on both counts please.

Cheers.

Sunday Folayan.
Board Chair.

On 23/11/2015 13:01, Badru Ntege wrote:
> Members 
>
> On 11/23/15, 2:38 PM, "Noah" <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:
>
>
> I personally look forward to the way where we shall not need to remind anyone of delays or be given an excuse or apologies for everything...........
>
> Its called ACCOUNTABILITY.  And in management we call it a culture of accountability.  
>
> So Noah what you and all the community are looking for is a move away from a culture of excuses and blame to a culture of real accountability.  
>
> And we all know that at the end of the day you cannot talk or write yourself out of a poor performance situation but you have to behave yourself out of it.
>
> The sad thing about this is that we have a passionate and dedicated workforce being let down by the top.   We can create all manners of documents and policies but it takes people to deliver and excecute.  
>
> The answer is not getting the policies and documents right the answer is getting the people right.  
>
> One thing I know having worked with them the team in Mauritius is RIGHT.  
>
> What I?m not sure about is the rest but will leave to deduction.
>
>
> Regards 
>
> BN
>
>
>
>
> Noah
>
> On 23 Nov 2015 14:12, "Andrew Alston" <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Firstly, let me state my apologies for my silence of late, due to circumstances beyond my control I have been largely out of contact for the purposes of AfriNIC business for the better part of 2 months.  It is important to note that the terms of reference require that the audit committee act unanimously, and this could not happen over this period, hence certain delays, which again, I apologise for.
>
> Please rest assured that a lot of work has gone in since Tunis into ensuring that the information that is provided to the community is accurate and a fair representation.  I would rather such information was provided slightly delayed than contained inaccuracies or disputed pointed, and as a result, the work has taken a significant amount of time, due to the care and thoroughness applied.
>
> Lastly, Badru, you make reference to 3 days instead of 14 days.  I point out that the notice of the SGMM was published on the 20th of November 2014, for an SGMM that is scheduled for the 3rd of December.  By my calculations, 3 days would mean that the SGMM is on the 23rd of November, so you seem to have misplaced 11 days.  Hence, while you refer to a section in the bylaws that references ANNUAL general meetings, rather that SPECIAL general meetings, if you choose to conflate the two (and there is reason within the companies act why you should not do that), even under these circumstances the timelines have been met.
>
> Thanks
>
> Andrew Alston
> Chair ? Audit Committee
>
> -- 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Sunday Adekunle Folayan
>     blog: http://www.sundayfolayan.name.ng
>    email: sfolayan at skannet.com.ng, sfolayan at gmail.com
>    phone: +234-816-866-7523, +234-802-291-2202
>    skype: sfolayan
>     fcbk: www.facebook.com/sfolayan
>    tweet: sfolayan
> linkedin: sfolayan
>         : http://free.lanci.ng - Anyone, Anyjob, Anywhere, Anytime
> ------------------------------------------------------------------



From badru.ntege at nftconsult.com  Mon Nov 23 12:26:54 2015
From: badru.ntege at nftconsult.com (Badru Ntege)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 15:26:54 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
In-Reply-To: <5652F9C0.2000602@afrinic.net>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <5652F9C0.2000602@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <DF505AD4-1225-42D3-8E3E-ADFF32276D9B@nftconsult.com>

Chair 

On 11/23/15, 2:34 PM, "Sunday Folayan" <sunday.folayan at afrinic.net> wrote:

  
 Dear Badru,
 
 On 23/11/2015 11:35, Badru Ntege wrote:
 >  Notice should have been 14 days and not 3 as per 12.2 of the bylaws.  
 
 I am not sure where your number 3 is coming from. Worse that you are quoting the bylaws.
 
 Kindly note that the notice was sent out within the specified period of 14 days. It was sent on the 19th of November, which is clearly 14 days relative to the day of the meeting, which is 3rd December 2015.
 

The email I sent this morning which I would like to presume prompted your email, qouted 12.2 (d)

My response to Andrew on the same should surfice to this issue. Did board not think that community needed the detail you remembered to share this morning. ???

BN



 > > > May be we should pray and not just hope.  You never know some miracles might happen. > > Just the sceptic on me.  (some might want to read it as septic :-) )
 
 Than you for the sustained confidence in the Board, and thank you for the Prayers.
 
 Sunday.
 
 
_______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss 

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From noah at neo.co.tz  Mon Nov 23 12:34:33 2015
From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 15:34:33 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
In-Reply-To: <B2D345F1-206B-4F7C-9B99-C3A8F97FA79C@nftconsult.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <CAEqgTWZwOZnz1Cn2paUCftozw9wNwwd8qGgM_fw-2s36JvrsgA@mail.gmail.com>
 <B2D345F1-206B-4F7C-9B99-C3A8F97FA79C@nftconsult.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqgTWaYUKM30L2-ZLmMykBOVVCvO1uHe+hcV+MPC0OYAUjkWQ@mail.gmail.com>

Badru

In tanzania, we have this trending hashtag  #hapakazitu  which is swahili
for #this-time-its-only-work-and-nothing-but-work

Our problem is that we have always had to be reminded of our duties and
even when we are reminded, we  still give excuses after excuse for pretty
much everything....

This has become an inherent characteristic of our modus operandi in this
continent......

We need to seriously change.......

Noah
On 23 Nov 2015 15:02, "Badru Ntege" <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com> wrote:

> Members
>
> On 11/23/15, 2:38 PM, "Noah" <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:
>
> I personally look forward to the way where we shall not need to remind
> anyone of delays or be given an excuse or apologies for
> everything...........
>
> Its called ACCOUNTABILITY.  And in management we call it a culture of
> accountability.
>
> So Noah what you and all the community are looking for is a move away from
> a culture of excuses and blame to a culture of real accountability.
>
> And we all know that at the end of the day you cannot talk or write
> yourself out of a poor performance situation but you have to behave
> yourself out of it.
>
> The sad thing about this is that we have a passionate and dedicated
> workforce being let down by the top.   We can create all manners of
> documents and policies but it takes people to deliver and excecute.
>
> The answer is not getting the policies and documents right the answer is
> getting the people right.
>
> One thing I know having worked with them the team in Mauritius is RIGHT.
>
> What I?m not sure about is the rest but will leave to deduction.
>
>
> Regards
>
> BN
>
>
>
> Noah
> On 23 Nov 2015 14:12, "Andrew Alston" <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Firstly, let me state my apologies for my silence of late, due to
>> circumstances beyond my control I have been largely out of contact for the
>> purposes of AfriNIC business for the better part of 2 months.  It is
>> important to note that the terms of reference require that the audit
>> committee act unanimously, and this could not happen over this period,
>> hence certain delays, which again, I apologise for.
>>
>> Please rest assured that a lot of work has gone in since Tunis into
>> ensuring that the information that is provided to the community is accurate
>> and a fair representation.  I would rather such information was provided
>> slightly delayed than contained inaccuracies or disputed pointed, and as a
>> result, the work has taken a significant amount of time, due to the care
>> and thoroughness applied.
>>
>> Lastly, Badru, you make reference to 3 days instead of 14 days.  I point
>> out that the notice of the SGMM was published on the 20th of November 2014,
>> for an SGMM that is scheduled for the 3rd of December.  By my calculations,
>> 3 days would mean that the SGMM is on the 23rd of November, so you seem to
>> have misplaced 11 days.  Hence, while you refer to a section in the bylaws
>> that references ANNUAL general meetings, rather that SPECIAL general
>> meetings, if you choose to conflate the two (and there is reason within the
>> companies act why you should not do that), even under these circumstances
>> the timelines have been met.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Andrew Alston
>> Chair ? Audit Committee
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>> _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing
> list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
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From badru.ntege at nftconsult.com  Mon Nov 23 12:38:24 2015
From: badru.ntege at nftconsult.com (Badru Ntege)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 15:38:24 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Caution on Language and Intent
In-Reply-To: <565305C6.9090104@afrinic.net>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <CAEqgTWZwOZnz1Cn2paUCftozw9wNwwd8qGgM_fw-2s36JvrsgA@mail.gmail.com>
 <B2D345F1-206B-4F7C-9B99-C3A8F97FA79C@nftconsult.com>
 <565305C6.9090104@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <2B5FFFCA-494C-465E-BE16-7195EC60EA68@nftconsult.com>

Chair 




On 11/23/15, 3:25 PM, "Sunday Folayan" <sunday.folayan at afrinic.net> wrote:

>Dear Mr. Ntege,
>
>Please do not descend too low to set the staff against the Board. Some
>issues need wisdom, while others need caution. This requires both.
>
>Do not present yourself as being wanting on both counts please.
>
>Cheers.
>
>Sunday Folayan.
>Board Chair.
>
> 

Maybe you are the only one who does not see the problem.  My point was purely based on accountability.  

If our staff had the privilege of never ending excuses and using a variety of reasons never to deliver we would not have a functioning organisations.

Fortunately we have a functioning organization amidst the chaos and that deserves acknowledgement.

Forgive my bluntness but accept.  I give credit where its due.   

You seem to see that as an atempt to divide.  I see it as a hint to wake up.  

To me the cup is half full. ( the bottom is solid the top needs some work)  trust me I?m an optimist.  But you have to make the choice to improve or exist in the world of blame, accusations and excuses.

Its a choice.

Regards
BN






From randy at psg.com  Mon Nov 23 12:57:36 2015
From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 13:57:36 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
	November 2015
In-Reply-To: <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
Message-ID: <m28u5oub3z.wl%randy@psg.com>

you folk have way too much free time on your hands

go move some packets



From omo at wacren.net  Mon Nov 23 13:19:50 2015
From: omo at wacren.net (Omo Oaiya)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 13:19:50 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
In-Reply-To: <m28u5oub3z.wl%randy@psg.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <m28u5oub3z.wl%randy@psg.com>
Message-ID: <CAG1eoi2kaXW4pM4Y3iWDw7X8YCQOToYLJCey8R9NDHW0iw6tpQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 23 November 2015 at 12:57, Randy Bush <randy at psg.com> wrote:

> you folk have way too much free time on your hands
>

I notice you are always sticking your oar in ....too much free time too?


> go move some packets
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>




-- 
Omo Oaiya
CTO/Directeur Technique, WACREN
Mobile: +234 806 4522778, +234 808 8881571
Skype: kodion
http://www.wacren.net



<http://www.wacren.net/>
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From badru.ntege at nftconsult.com  Mon Nov 23 13:52:32 2015
From: badru.ntege at nftconsult.com (Badru Ntege)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 16:52:32 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
In-Reply-To: <m28u5oub3z.wl%randy@psg.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <m28u5oub3z.wl%randy@psg.com>
Message-ID: <F4948B35-06CA-49C7-84CF-38F2970BD5E4@nftconsult.com>


 Hi Randy





On 11/23/15, 3:57 PM, "Randy Bush" <randy at psg.com> wrote:

>you folk have way too much free time on your hands
>
>go move some packets
>

:-)  its because the packets are moving fantastically well, need to get the layer 9 to the same level.

>




From seun.ojedeji at gmail.com  Mon Nov 23 13:54:10 2015
From: seun.ojedeji at gmail.com (Seun Ojedeji)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 14:54:10 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
In-Reply-To: <5652EF0A.3050206@afrinic.net>
References: <5652C974.8010304@afrinic.net>
 <CAD_dc6i0XHNOHvXMTnvMrJMK_vaOi=puMDPCgHbKm=kxHOC5Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5652EF0A.3050206@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <CAD_dc6g1+ieFWvkb4GgQ8-T7XVJV6_Qi7RBGHRA9qvqyYyh4zQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Chair,

Thanks a lot for all your response, they are very helpful and indicative of
progress. Re-assurance is good, its just that I have heard too much
security PR in the last few weeks and while we may think we are
re-assuring, it could negatively discourage(scare) people which i know is
not your intent.

See you in Congo

Regards

On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 11:48 AM, Sunday Folayan <sunday.folayan at afrinic.net
> wrote:

> Dear Mr Ojedeji,
>
> Please see my response inset:
>
> On 23/11/2015 10:15, Seun Ojedeji wrote:
>
> Dear Chair,
>
> Thanks for your mail, from your information it means the audit report will
> be available tomorrow (the 24th) once the board concludes its meeting.
>
>
> Yes.
>
> While it would have been good to have this much more earlier than now, i
> guess a day of patience is still in order considering where we are coming
> from.
>
>
> Thank You.
>
> That said, can you confirm if all the meeting minutes have now been
> published as that was one of the task that the board committed to
> addressing.
>
>
> This is work in progress and almost complete.
>
> On the last point about sighting Paris instance, I don't think
> we need Paris to be bombed before we know there is security concerns as
> places closer to us has been experiencing terrorist attack by the day and
> we have been doing our thing without this much security awareness PR[1].
>
>
> Please read the entire statement as a whole. The reference to Paris was in
> a certain context.
>
>  I value my life but we should not scare ourselves un-necessarily, and
> certainly the scare should not be as a result of incidents that happened in
> foreign territories.
>
>
> My statement never said nor inferred that. As the Chair, I have made the
> statement to reassure members, and the entire statement should be read as a
> statement, not as a political statement.
>
> Kind Regards ...
>
> SF.
>
>
> Regards
> 1. Anyone who was in Djibouti would recall what happened.
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 9:08 AM, Sunday Folayan <sunday.folayan at afrinic.net> <sunday.folayan at afrinic.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> * Dear Members, Permit me to update you on some important issues regarding
> our organization. 1. Audit Report The Board will meet on Tuesday 24th
> November 2015 to approve the Audit Report. It will be released to the
> Community, preparatory to our SGMM in Point Noire. Sincere Apologies from
> the Board that we will not be releasing the report before that date. 2.
> Governance Committee As requested by members, GC will be discussed in Point
> Noire. Due to work pressure on Management, the task of synthesizing the
> various views and discussions so far on the subject, has only recently been
> completed. The CEO has provided the Board with a revised draft of the
> Governance Committee Terms of Reference, and the Board expects to make it
> public within the next week. 3. Point Noire Meeting Preparatory to our
> meeting in Point Noire, the Notice of Meeting and the Agenda has already
> been circulated to: *
>
> * Resource Members * Registered Members
>
> * Associate Members
>
> * Company Secretary * Auditor
>
>
>
> * It is important to remind us all, that terror has really taken hold of
> the world, and fear is the major merchandize being peddled by these
> terrorists. The global media is also not helping matters with the way these
> are graphically relayed all over the world. The recent bombing in Paris has
> further underscored the fact that there is no safe place in the world. We
> just must all be courageous to live our lives. *AFRINIC has commissioned
> a site assessment from a reputable security company, and their report is
> available at<https://meeting.afrinic.net/afrinic-23/en/travel-kit/security-assessment> <https://meeting.afrinic.net/afrinic-23/en/travel-kit/security-assessment><https://meeting.afrinic.net/afrinic-23/en/travel-kit/security-assessment> <https://meeting.afrinic.net/afrinic-23/en/travel-kit/security-assessment>
> .
>
>
>
> * The Board is exploring ways and measures to make us all safe during the
> meeting. Please do come to the meeting in Point Noire, but by all means if
> you cannot come, please make sure you participate remotely. Sincerely,
> Sunday Folayan Chair, AFRINIC Board *
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Members-Discuss mailing listMembers-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
>
>
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------





*Seun Ojedeji,Federal University Oye-Ekitiweb:      http://www.fuoye.edu.ng
<http://www.fuoye.edu.ng> Mobile: +2348035233535**alt email:
<http://goog_1872880453>seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng
<seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng>*

Bringing another down does not take you up - think about your action!
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From randy at psg.com  Mon Nov 23 14:17:22 2015
From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 15:17:22 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
	November 2015
In-Reply-To: <F4948B35-06CA-49C7-84CF-38F2970BD5E4@nftconsult.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <m28u5oub3z.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <F4948B35-06CA-49C7-84CF-38F2970BD5E4@nftconsult.com>
Message-ID: <m2wpt8ssul.wl%randy@psg.com>

> :-) its because the packets are moving fantastically well, need to get
> the layer 9 to the same level.

never happen.  layer nine involves all us overevolved funny monkeys.

but, as one of the folk who helped get into the current hole, i am
always interested in your constructive suggestions on how to get out.
i am not sure niggling about micro-timing of reports is attacking the
roots of the problem.  otoh, i do look forward to a thorough audit,
governance committee, etc.  i am patient and i trust the current
executive.

randy



From badru.ntege at nftconsult.com  Mon Nov 23 15:00:47 2015
From: badru.ntege at nftconsult.com (Badru Ntege)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 18:00:47 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
In-Reply-To: <m2wpt8ssul.wl%randy@psg.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <m28u5oub3z.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <F4948B35-06CA-49C7-84CF-38F2970BD5E4@nftconsult.com>
 <m2wpt8ssul.wl%randy@psg.com>
Message-ID: <D2E99FCB-7468-413E-AC51-33E95A009075@nftconsult.com>


Hi Randy





On 11/23/15, 5:17 PM, "Randy Bush" <randy at psg.com> wrote:

>> :-) its because the packets are moving fantastically well, need to get
>> the layer 9 to the same level.
>
>never happen.  layer nine involves all us overevolved funny monkeys.
>
>but, as one of the folk who helped get into the current hole,

Another valid purely subjective view.  One would have to understand all the dynamics but that would be very difficult in a world of limited transparency thus your subjective view is based on the pre-edited information that you have access to.

So if one really understands the causes as opposed to gueses based on a particular agenda we could be having additive discussions.  My emails try to be additive but if you look at the responses from the executive they never dissapoint at dragging the dialogue down. They have earned a record for consistency.

> i am
>always interested in your constructive suggestions on how to get out.

Thank you. Just like many others I have a vested interest in the good of the community and will try my best.

>i am not sure niggling about micro-timing of reports is attacking the
>roots of the problem. 

On the contrary it is the root of the problem. It all starts from the lack of order and dedication.  We leave in a world of last minute delivery. (on this one trust me I know.)  So we are ticking boxes without focusing on the core.

> otoh, i do look forward to a thorough audit,
>governance committee, etc.  

We all do.  I hope your patience has the resilience needed for the current modus operandus. 

>i am patient and i trust the current
>executive.
>
>randy




From randy at psg.com  Mon Nov 23 16:10:49 2015
From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 17:10:49 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
	November 2015
In-Reply-To: <D2E99FCB-7468-413E-AC51-33E95A009075@nftconsult.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <m28u5oub3z.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <F4948B35-06CA-49C7-84CF-38F2970BD5E4@nftconsult.com>
 <m2wpt8ssul.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <D2E99FCB-7468-413E-AC51-33E95A009075@nftconsult.com>
Message-ID: <m28u5osnli.wl%randy@psg.com>

>> but, as one of the folk who helped get into the current hole,
> Another valid purely subjective view.

yep.  on your watch.  the buck stops.

> Just like many others I have a vested interest in the good of the
> community and will try my best.

we all think we are acting in the best interests of the community.  and
yet it is possible to disagree.  welcome to the world of funny monkeys.

>> i am not sure niggling about micro-timing of reports is attacking the
>> roots of the problem. 
> On the contrary it is the root of the problem.

this is beyond nit picking and borders on anal compulsive.

>> otoh, i do look forward to a thorough audit, governance committee,
>> etc.
> We all do.  I hope your patience has the resilience needed for the
> current modus operandus.

i work with enough community infrastructure organizations to have
learned far more patience than i or my friends thought was possible.  i
am sitting at a desk in the ripe/ncc eurocracy (been visiting a lot to
do research with the gang).  the layers of bureaucracy and decision
making would boggle your mind.

giving all the sniping, back stabbing, and back-seat driving on this
list, if i was on the board/exec i would be extremely careful and
cautious with what i published.  this takes time but saves time in the
long run.

randy



From badru.ntege at nftconsult.com  Mon Nov 23 16:48:30 2015
From: badru.ntege at nftconsult.com (Badru Ntege)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 19:48:30 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
In-Reply-To: <m28u5osnli.wl%randy@psg.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <m28u5oub3z.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <F4948B35-06CA-49C7-84CF-38F2970BD5E4@nftconsult.com>
 <m2wpt8ssul.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <D2E99FCB-7468-413E-AC51-33E95A009075@nftconsult.com>
 <m28u5osnli.wl%randy@psg.com>
Message-ID: <3B88BD8A-17AD-4458-964A-A2562A8CC32B@nftconsult.com>

Randy

With all due respect you are a guru at moving packets.  Allow me to even say beyond a guru at that point.  However they are some organisational issues that one needs to run a multimillion dollar entity I?m sure would not be in your domain.  In that aspect I do have the experience and the right to point out on organisational issue.  You will note I limit my technical input to the depth of my knowledge.  Lets all contribute in the sphere we have an in depth experience.

With that said please find my comments inline.




On 11/23/15, 7:10 PM, "Randy Bush" <randy at psg.com> wrote:

>>> but, as one of the folk who helped get into the current hole,
>> Another valid purely subjective view.
>
>yep.  on your watch.  the buck stops.

If one were a dictator with a board that I tell turn left and all 9 members do so I would fully agree with you on the above.  However the reality is different but then again as said you are not furnished with all the information so your subjective comment above is valid from your point of view and I respect it.

>
>> Just like many others I have a vested interest in the good of the
>> community and will try my best.
>
>we all think we are acting in the best interests of the community.  and
>yet it is possible to disagree.  welcome to the world of funny monkeys.

If we all had the same point of view most of us would be irrelevant. However we need the humility to accept that others can have a different view and thus the need for discussion.  Is that not the foundations of our bottom up system. 

Its about understanding each other and the humility to accept when we are wrong.   

>
>>> i am not sure niggling about micro-timing of reports is attacking the
>>> roots of the problem. 
>> On the contrary it is the root of the problem.
>
>this is beyond nit picking and borders on anal compulsive.

Once again the world of subjectivity kicks in.  what you see as ?anal compulsive? would not be accepted in other RIRs. (let me stop there before we start another thread).

>
>>> otoh, i do look forward to a thorough audit, governance committee,
>>> etc.
>> We all do.  I hope your patience has the resilience needed for the
>> current modus operandus.
>
>i work with enough community infrastructure organizations to have
>learned far more patience than i or my friends thought was possible.  i
>am sitting at a desk in the ripe/ncc eurocracy (been visiting a lot to
>do research with the gang).  the layers of bureaucracy and decision
>making would boggle your mind.

Nothing new. Same all over the world
>
>giving all the sniping, back stabbing, and back-seat driving on this
>list, if i was on the board/exec i would be extremely careful and
>cautious with what i published.  this takes time but saves time in the
>long run.

Randy I?m sorry here you are asking us to accept MEDIOCRITY.  Once again with due respect and I have allot of respect for you.  I totally disagree with you on the above.  I believe we can do allot more.  For your information I also work with allot of regional organisations within my region including governments and trust me we have a different paradigm. And are making an impact.

Mediocrity is a choice we should not take and blame bureaucracy NO NO NO. 

I refuse to accept.  I?m even shocked that you are taking this stance

Regards



>
>randy




From randy at psg.com  Mon Nov 23 16:56:15 2015
From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 17:56:15 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
	November 2015
In-Reply-To: <3B88BD8A-17AD-4458-964A-A2562A8CC32B@nftconsult.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <m28u5oub3z.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <F4948B35-06CA-49C7-84CF-38F2970BD5E4@nftconsult.com>
 <m2wpt8ssul.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <D2E99FCB-7468-413E-AC51-33E95A009075@nftconsult.com>
 <m28u5osnli.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <3B88BD8A-17AD-4458-964A-A2562A8CC32B@nftconsult.com>
Message-ID: <m21tbgslhs.wl%randy@psg.com>

> they are some organisational issues that one needs to run a
> multimillion dollar entity I?m sure would not be in your domain.

clearly you do not know my history.  i have run a budget of tens of
millions of usd per year.  i did not do so via micro-management.

>> yep.  on your watch.  the buck stops.
> If one were a dictator ...

we call that 'pass the buck'

> Its about understanding each other and the humility to accept when we
> are wrong.

indeed!  that is why we have mirrors.

randy



From noah at neo.co.tz  Mon Nov 23 17:44:10 2015
From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 20:44:10 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
In-Reply-To: <m21tbgslhs.wl%randy@psg.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <m28u5oub3z.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <F4948B35-06CA-49C7-84CF-38F2970BD5E4@nftconsult.com>
 <m2wpt8ssul.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <D2E99FCB-7468-413E-AC51-33E95A009075@nftconsult.com>
 <m28u5osnli.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <3B88BD8A-17AD-4458-964A-A2562A8CC32B@nftconsult.com>
 <m21tbgslhs.wl%randy@psg.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqgTWZ6LvVY_sd4Jq3fgzU5E3ah0VwEutkxUFTDnEuXmdi8dg@mail.gmail.com>

Shall we keep the adrinaline down...

And to some seniors on this list.... some of your subjective opinions are
so irrelevant... You ought to be examples considering the years ya'all have
spent in this space.....

Some of us didn't even know what the internet was the time you guys were
into this whole thing yet it's almost 2016 and this is the best we can
do...

I personally really dont care if some folks are experts in handling
millions of $$$$ or packets or businesses....

We need to move forward constructively and if we dont have anything useful
to contribute .... how about we stay far away from our keyboards as am sure
those concerned have received the message......

Noah
On 23 Nov 2015 19:56, "Randy Bush" <randy at psg.com> wrote:

> > they are some organisational issues that one needs to run a
> > multimillion dollar entity I?m sure would not be in your domain.
>
> clearly you do not know my history.  i have run a budget of tens of
> millions of usd per year.  i did not do so via micro-management.
>
> >> yep.  on your watch.  the buck stops.
> > If one were a dictator ...
>
> we call that 'pass the buck'
>
> > Its about understanding each other and the humility to accept when we
> > are wrong.
>
> indeed!  that is why we have mirrors.
>
> randy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
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From saul at enetworks.co.za  Mon Nov 23 19:35:30 2015
From: saul at enetworks.co.za (Saul)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 21:35:30 +0200 (SAST)
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
	November 2015
In-Reply-To: <D2E99FCB-7468-413E-AC51-33E95A009075@nftconsult.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <m28u5oub3z.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <F4948B35-06CA-49C7-84CF-38F2970BD5E4@nftconsult.com>
 <m2wpt8ssul.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <D2E99FCB-7468-413E-AC51-33E95A009075@nftconsult.com>
Message-ID: <d96546cb.000009d8.000001d0@ws13.eNetworks.local>

Badru, I can no longer refrain from commenting at your constant berating,
non-constructive posts, waste of bandwidth, time and being critical of the
board, community and its processes - something that you were in charge of
until just short of a year ago and then still on the board until the last
elections (6 months ago)- so this is something that you are very
responsible for. 

You are constantly making accusations against members of the board in this
public forum and with non-public knowledge and then plead NDA when asked
for fact to backup your allegations.

You are now alluding to your prowess at running a multi million dollar
company, I refer you back to the Lusaka AGMM where AFRINIC, under your
leadership ran at a loss and the financials were late. When questioned
about what you were going to do to rectify the issue, the response was, we
don't need to do anything different. Funny thing those financials have
always been a sticky point recently... 

maybe where there is smoke there is fire, so let's stop this non-sense,
we're IT people, like logs, facts don't lie, so lets get these current,
correctly  audited financials and see what status AFRINIC has been left
in.

I am not interested in a slinging match, so lets keep the mails on this
list factual and constructive

Saul


-----Original Message-----
From: Badru Ntege [mailto:badru.ntege at nftconsult.com] 
Sent: 23 November 2015 05:01 PM
To: Randy Bush <randy at psg.com>
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>;
AfriNIC Discuss <members-discuss at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
November 2015


Hi Randy





On 11/23/15, 5:17 PM, "Randy Bush" <randy at psg.com> wrote:

>> :-) its because the packets are moving fantastically well, need to 
>> get the layer 9 to the same level.
>
>never happen.  layer nine involves all us overevolved funny monkeys.
>
>but, as one of the folk who helped get into the current hole,

Another valid purely subjective view.  One would have to understand all
the dynamics but that would be very difficult in a world of limited
transparency thus your subjective view is based on the pre-edited
information that you have access to.

So if one really understands the causes as opposed to gueses based on a
particular agenda we could be having additive discussions.  My emails try
to be additive but if you look at the responses from the executive they
never dissapoint at dragging the dialogue down. They have earned a record
for consistency.

> i am
>always interested in your constructive suggestions on how to get out.

Thank you. Just like many others I have a vested interest in the good of
the community and will try my best.

>i am not sure niggling about micro-timing of reports is attacking the 
>roots of the problem.

On the contrary it is the root of the problem. It all starts from the lack
of order and dedication.  We leave in a world of last minute delivery. (on
this one trust me I know.)  So we are ticking boxes without focusing on
the core.

> otoh, i do look forward to a thorough audit, governance committee, 
>etc.

We all do.  I hope your patience has the resilience needed for the current
modus operandus. 

>i am patient and i trust the current
>executive.
>
>randy


_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss



From owen at delong.com  Mon Nov 23 19:35:12 2015
From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 11:35:12 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
	November 2015
In-Reply-To: <3380710B-F06E-458F-AFA2-9D630C1A6194@nftconsult.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <3380710B-F06E-458F-AFA2-9D630C1A6194@nftconsult.com>
Message-ID: <56A17566-C189-492A-B11A-99A811F6D0DC@delong.com>


> On Nov 23, 2015, at 03:26 , Badru Ntege <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com> wrote:
> 
> Andrew
> 
> Comments inline
> 
> On 11/23/15, 2:11 PM, "Andrew Alston" <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com <mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
> 
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> Firstly, let me state my apologies for my silence of late, due to circumstances beyond my control I have been largely out of contact for the purposes of AfriNIC business for the better part of 2 months.  It is important to note that the terms of reference require that the audit committee act unanimously, and this could not happen over this period, hence certain delays, which again, I apologise for.
> 
> 
> Could we be lead to assume that you do not have enough time to serve Afrinic.  We do totally understand that Afrinic is purely voluntary and if your primary assignments have become too demanding, mechanisms of relieving the workload do exist.  I?m sure chair is fully aware of these so we do not have to elaborate.

Badru,

It?s clear you can be led to assume whatever you wish and that you are clearly attempting to lead the community to assume facts not in evidence.

Even the most dedicated volunteers sometimes have things come up which temporarily pull them away from their volunteer duties. Andrew has expressed this in a manner that implies the distraction was temporary in nature and I see no reason to believe otherwise. I?m quite certain that if Andrew faced any sort of permanent inability to fulfill his obligations, he would act accordingly without requiring any form of encouragement from you.

> 
>> 
>> Please rest assured that a lot of work has gone in since Tunis into ensuring that the information that is provided to the community is accurate and a fair representation.  I would rather such information was provided slightly delayed than contained inaccuracies or disputed pointed, and as a result, the work has taken a significant amount of time, due to the care and thoroughness applied.
> 
> 
> The above in a way is in contradiction to your pre-ceeding statement which referred to conflicting priorities.

No, it isn?t. Andrew stated that one of the contributing factors to the overall delay has been his inability to work on the matter.

This paragraph seems to me to state that there are other factors as well, including the need for extensive work presumably performed by other members of the committee. Further, Andrew stated that his inability to work on the matter only covers the last 2 months (September and October). Since the Tunis meeting was early in June, that leaves several other months during which even he could have been doing significant work on this.

You seem so determined to find fault with the current board and Andrew in particular that you have failed to apply even the most basic of logic and mathematics to your analysis of Andrew?s message.

> 
>> 
>> Lastly, Badru, you make reference to 3 days instead of 14 days.  I point out that the notice of the SGMM was published on the 20th of November 2014, for an SGMM that is scheduled for the 3rd of December.  By my calculations, 3 days would mean that the SGMM is on the 23rd of November, so you seem to have misplaced 11 days.  Hence, while you refer to a section in the bylaws that references ANNUAL general meetings, rather that SPECIAL general meetings, if you choose to conflate the two (and there is reason within the companies act why you should not do that), even under these circumstances the timelines have been met.
> 
> 
> My reference to the 3 days was to the information provided by Chair in the earlier email.  However once again this is subjective based on ones paradigm.

Then your reference is misplaced because as Andrew pointed out, you referenced a section of the bylaws that applies to the notice to be given of Annual General Member Meetings. If you have a correct reference in the bylaws that requires 14 days notice for the information from the chair in the earlier email, please provide a corrected reference point in the bylaws. Otherwise, please accept that you were mistaken and let?s all move on from this point.

Owen


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From randy at psg.com  Mon Nov 23 19:35:21 2015
From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 20:35:21 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
	November 2015
In-Reply-To: <CAGrBSSjkMK_gcXODeAuhQrt77HdyvbyWg3ve9G_yntqfUfQnAw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <m28u5oub3z.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <F4948B35-06CA-49C7-84CF-38F2970BD5E4@nftconsult.com>
 <m2wpt8ssul.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <D2E99FCB-7468-413E-AC51-33E95A009075@nftconsult.com>
 <m28u5osnli.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <3B88BD8A-17AD-4458-964A-A2562A8CC32B@nftconsult.com>
 <m21tbgslhs.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <CAEqgTWZ6LvVY_sd4Jq3fgzU5E3ah0VwEutkxUFTDnEuXmdi8dg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGrBSSh-Xub4wimMn-VnALQkX9b3+Cm2d0o0wZpKfYggBiZwOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <m2r3jgr02o.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <CAGrBSSjkMK_gcXODeAuhQrt77HdyvbyWg3ve9G_yntqfUfQnAw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <m2lh9oqzk6.wl%randy@psg.com>

>>> Very shocked by the language used in some postings.
>>
>> care to quote the shocking language?
> 
> Most members of our community are far more intelligent than you may think.
> No need to ask me/them this question.
> 
> Please don't post privately to me.

and please do not post private correspondence publicly.  it has been
considered very rude for a few decades.

and i think you have answered my question.  thank you.

randy



From sunday.folayan at afrinic.net  Mon Nov 23 22:24:31 2015
From: sunday.folayan at afrinic.net (Sunday Folayan)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 23:24:31 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
In-Reply-To: <02713345-E9CE-496F-8F38-C45A1D4C2D2F@gmail.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <m28u5oub3z.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <F4948B35-06CA-49C7-84CF-38F2970BD5E4@nftconsult.com>
 <m2wpt8ssul.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <D2E99FCB-7468-413E-AC51-33E95A009075@nftconsult.com>
 <d96546cb.000009d8.000001d0@ws13.eNetworks.local>
 <02713345-E9CE-496F-8F38-C45A1D4C2D2F@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5653921F.6010004@afrinic.net>

Dear Badru,

AFRINIC History is not hidden and should not be craftily re-written in
emails such as these.

You were elected to the Board in May 2012 during AFRINIC-16 at Banjul.
http://afrinic.net/en/library/news/735-afrinic-elects-new-board-members

You were elected Chair of the Board in August 2012. 
http://afrinic.net/en/library/news/307-main-news-page

The Board met f2f under your watch at AFRINIC-17 in November 2012 in
Khartoum, Sudan. You did not inherit any budget.
https://www.afrinic.net/images/doc/board_resolutions_2013.pdf

The AGMM in Lusaka was during AFRINIC-18 in June 2013. You had chaired
the Board for a whole year.
https://www.afrinic.net/images/images/agmm_nom_210613_2.pdf  The second
to the last paragraph on page 3 should remind you.

The AGMM in Djibouti at AfriNIC-20 in June 2014 was your second year
running as Chair.

You handed over to me during AfriNIC-21 at Mauritius in November 2014.

You left the Board in June 2015 at AfriNIC-22 in Tunis, less that 6
months ago, after being Chair for over Two years and three months.

I have now Chaired the Board for exactly one Year.

I still accept responsibility for your diagnosis of the pathetic level
of mediocrity in the current Board, the above is just to set the records
straight.

Cheers.

SF.

On 23/11/2015 21:08, Badru Ntege wrote:
> Saul
>
> You obviously have a limited understanding of the history. Lusaka was my first board and the results being reported were for a budget I inherited.  For decisions made by a previous board with the best of intentions. 
>
> If you read clearly my emails which I'm sure you have not you will see that half if not the majority of your email with all due respect is baseless. 
>
> I will thus not continue on personalisation since I do not recall any personalisation.  Please go back and read all the emails very slowly. I have utmost respect for the individuals but does not mean you cannot point out what is wrong. 
>
> Your email is exactly the problem. Afrinic does not belong to any of us we will come and go and others will continue but when you think you cannot separate individual from the roles they do then we end up accepting everything for fear of hurting people's feelings. 
>
> Just take your time and read all the emails please the comment. 
>
> Badru Ntege
> CEO 
> NFT Consult Ltd 
> Www.Nftconsult.com
>
> ?Vision without execution is hallucination.? 
> ? Thomas A. Edison
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> On 23 Nov 2015, at 10:35 pm, Saul <saul at enetworks.co.za> wrote:
>>
>> Badru, I can no longer refrain from commenting at your constant berating,
>> non-constructive posts, waste of bandwidth, time and being critical of the
>> board, community and its processes - something that you were in charge of
>> until just short of a year ago and then still on the board until the last
>> elections (6 months ago)- so this is something that you are very
>> responsible for. 
>>
>> You are constantly making accusations against members of the board in this
>> public forum and with non-public knowledge and then plead NDA when asked
>> for fact to backup your allegations.
>>
>> You are now alluding to your prowess at running a multi million dollar
>> company, I refer you back to the Lusaka AGMM where AFRINIC, under your
>> leadership ran at a loss and the financials were late. When questioned
>> about what you were going to do to rectify the issue, the response was, we
>> don't need to do anything different. Funny thing those financials have
>> always been a sticky point recently... 
>>
>> maybe where there is smoke there is fire, so let's stop this non-sense,
>> we're IT people, like logs, facts don't lie, so lets get these current,
>> correctly  audited financials and see what status AFRINIC has been left
>> in.
>>
>> I am not interested in a slinging match, so lets keep the mails on this
>> list factual and constructive
>>
>> Saul
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Badru Ntege [mailto:badru.ntege at nftconsult.com] 
>> Sent: 23 November 2015 05:01 PM
>> To: Randy Bush <randy at psg.com>
>> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>;
>> AfriNIC Discuss <members-discuss at afrinic.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
>> November 2015
>>
>>
>> Hi Randy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 11/23/15, 5:17 PM, "Randy Bush" <randy at psg.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> :-) its because the packets are moving fantastically well, need to 
>>>> get the layer 9 to the same level.
>>> never happen.  layer nine involves all us overevolved funny monkeys.
>>>
>>> but, as one of the folk who helped get into the current hole,
>> Another valid purely subjective view.  One would have to understand all
>> the dynamics but that would be very difficult in a world of limited
>> transparency thus your subjective view is based on the pre-edited
>> information that you have access to.
>>
>> So if one really understands the causes as opposed to gueses based on a
>> particular agenda we could be having additive discussions.  My emails try
>> to be additive but if you look at the responses from the executive they
>> never dissapoint at dragging the dialogue down. They have earned a record
>> for consistency.
>>
>>> i am
>>> always interested in your constructive suggestions on how to get out.
>> Thank you. Just like many others I have a vested interest in the good of
>> the community and will try my best.
>>
>>> i am not sure niggling about micro-timing of reports is attacking the 
>>> roots of the problem.
>> On the contrary it is the root of the problem. It all starts from the lack
>> of order and dedication.  We leave in a world of last minute delivery. (on
>> this one trust me I know.)  So we are ticking boxes without focusing on
>> the core.
>>
>>> otoh, i do look forward to a thorough audit, governance committee, 
>>> etc.
>> We all do.  I hope your patience has the resilience needed for the current
>> modus operandus. 
>>
>>> i am patient and i trust the current
>>> executive.
>>>
>>> randy
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Members-Discuss mailing list
>> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
> _______________________________________________
> Members-Discuss mailing list
> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss





From owen at delong.com  Mon Nov 23 22:29:26 2015
From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 14:29:26 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
	November 2015
In-Reply-To: <5653921F.6010004@afrinic.net>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <m28u5oub3z.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <F4948B35-06CA-49C7-84CF-38F2970BD5E4@nftconsult.com>
 <m2wpt8ssul.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <D2E99FCB-7468-413E-AC51-33E95A009075@nftconsult.com>
 <d96546cb.000009d8.000001d0@ws13.eNetworks.local>
 <02713345-E9CE-496F-8F38-C45A1D4C2D2F@gmail.com>
 <5653921F.6010004@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <067A5468-F1B1-4ED6-A5DD-EC3AFE6A1C8B@delong.com>

While I think it is good that you accept responsibility, I would say that the board
performance under your leadership has been anything but mediocre.

I think you have been doing an excellent job and I suggest that you consider
the following latin phrase in reading Badru?s emails:

tegustipus non carbarundum

(Don?t let the bastards grind you down)

Owen

> On Nov 23, 2015, at 14:24 , Sunday Folayan <sunday.folayan at afrinic.net> wrote:
> 
> Dear Badru,
> 
> AFRINIC History is not hidden and should not be craftily re-written in
> emails such as these.
> 
> You were elected to the Board in May 2012 during AFRINIC-16 at Banjul.
> http://afrinic.net/en/library/news/735-afrinic-elects-new-board-members <http://afrinic.net/en/library/news/735-afrinic-elects-new-board-members>
> 
> You were elected Chair of the Board in August 2012. 
> http://afrinic.net/en/library/news/307-main-news-page <http://afrinic.net/en/library/news/307-main-news-page>
> 
> The Board met f2f under your watch at AFRINIC-17 in November 2012 in
> Khartoum, Sudan. You did not inherit any budget.
> https://www.afrinic.net/images/doc/board_resolutions_2013.pdf <https://www.afrinic.net/images/doc/board_resolutions_2013.pdf>
> 
> The AGMM in Lusaka was during AFRINIC-18 in June 2013. You had chaired
> the Board for a whole year.
> https://www.afrinic.net/images/images/agmm_nom_210613_2.pdf <https://www.afrinic.net/images/images/agmm_nom_210613_2.pdf>  The second
> to the last paragraph on page 3 should remind you.
> 
> The AGMM in Djibouti at AfriNIC-20 in June 2014 was your second year
> running as Chair.
> 
> You handed over to me during AfriNIC-21 at Mauritius in November 2014.
> 
> You left the Board in June 2015 at AfriNIC-22 in Tunis, less that 6
> months ago, after being Chair for over Two years and three months.
> 
> I have now Chaired the Board for exactly one Year.
> 
> I still accept responsibility for your diagnosis of the pathetic level
> of mediocrity in the current Board, the above is just to set the records
> straight.
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> SF.
> 
> On 23/11/2015 21:08, Badru Ntege wrote:
>> Saul
>> 
>> You obviously have a limited understanding of the history. Lusaka was my first board and the results being reported were for a budget I inherited.  For decisions made by a previous board with the best of intentions. 
>> 
>> If you read clearly my emails which I'm sure you have not you will see that half if not the majority of your email with all due respect is baseless. 
>> 
>> I will thus not continue on personalisation since I do not recall any personalisation.  Please go back and read all the emails very slowly. I have utmost respect for the individuals but does not mean you cannot point out what is wrong. 
>> 
>> Your email is exactly the problem. Afrinic does not belong to any of us we will come and go and others will continue but when you think you cannot separate individual from the roles they do then we end up accepting everything for fear of hurting people's feelings. 
>> 
>> Just take your time and read all the emails please the comment. 
>> 
>> Badru Ntege
>> CEO 
>> NFT Consult Ltd 
>> Www.Nftconsult.com <http://www.nftconsult.com/>
>> 
>> ?Vision without execution is hallucination.? 
>> ? Thomas A. Edison
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 23 Nov 2015, at 10:35 pm, Saul <saul at enetworks.co.za <mailto:saul at enetworks.co.za>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Badru, I can no longer refrain from commenting at your constant berating,
>>> non-constructive posts, waste of bandwidth, time and being critical of the
>>> board, community and its processes - something that you were in charge of
>>> until just short of a year ago and then still on the board until the last
>>> elections (6 months ago)- so this is something that you are very
>>> responsible for. 
>>> 
>>> You are constantly making accusations against members of the board in this
>>> public forum and with non-public knowledge and then plead NDA when asked
>>> for fact to backup your allegations.
>>> 
>>> You are now alluding to your prowess at running a multi million dollar
>>> company, I refer you back to the Lusaka AGMM where AFRINIC, under your
>>> leadership ran at a loss and the financials were late. When questioned
>>> about what you were going to do to rectify the issue, the response was, we
>>> don't need to do anything different. Funny thing those financials have
>>> always been a sticky point recently... 
>>> 
>>> maybe where there is smoke there is fire, so let's stop this non-sense,
>>> we're IT people, like logs, facts don't lie, so lets get these current,
>>> correctly  audited financials and see what status AFRINIC has been left
>>> in.
>>> 
>>> I am not interested in a slinging match, so lets keep the mails on this
>>> list factual and constructive
>>> 
>>> Saul
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Badru Ntege [mailto:badru.ntege at nftconsult.com] 
>>> Sent: 23 November 2015 05:01 PM
>>> To: Randy Bush <randy at psg.com>
>>> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>;
>>> AfriNIC Discuss <members-discuss at afrinic.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
>>> November 2015
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi Randy
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 11/23/15, 5:17 PM, "Randy Bush" <randy at psg.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>> :-) its because the packets are moving fantastically well, need to 
>>>>> get the layer 9 to the same level.
>>>> never happen.  layer nine involves all us overevolved funny monkeys.
>>>> 
>>>> but, as one of the folk who helped get into the current hole,
>>> Another valid purely subjective view.  One would have to understand all
>>> the dynamics but that would be very difficult in a world of limited
>>> transparency thus your subjective view is based on the pre-edited
>>> information that you have access to.
>>> 
>>> So if one really understands the causes as opposed to gueses based on a
>>> particular agenda we could be having additive discussions.  My emails try
>>> to be additive but if you look at the responses from the executive they
>>> never dissapoint at dragging the dialogue down. They have earned a record
>>> for consistency.
>>> 
>>>> i am
>>>> always interested in your constructive suggestions on how to get out.
>>> Thank you. Just like many others I have a vested interest in the good of
>>> the community and will try my best.
>>> 
>>>> i am not sure niggling about micro-timing of reports is attacking the 
>>>> roots of the problem.
>>> On the contrary it is the root of the problem. It all starts from the lack
>>> of order and dedication.  We leave in a world of last minute delivery. (on
>>> this one trust me I know.)  So we are ticking boxes without focusing on
>>> the core.
>>> 
>>>> otoh, i do look forward to a thorough audit, governance committee, 
>>>> etc.
>>> We all do.  I hope your patience has the resilience needed for the current
>>> modus operandus. 
>>> 
>>>> i am patient and i trust the current
>>>> executive.
>>>> 
>>>> randy
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Members-Discuss mailing list
>>> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Members-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Members-Discuss mailing list
>> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Members-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss>
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>
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From noah at neo.co.tz  Mon Nov 23 22:45:43 2015
From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 01:45:43 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
In-Reply-To: <5653921F.6010004@afrinic.net>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <m28u5oub3z.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <F4948B35-06CA-49C7-84CF-38F2970BD5E4@nftconsult.com>
 <m2wpt8ssul.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <D2E99FCB-7468-413E-AC51-33E95A009075@nftconsult.com>
 <d96546cb.000009d8.000001d0@ws13.eNetworks.local>
 <02713345-E9CE-496F-8F38-C45A1D4C2D2F@gmail.com>
 <5653921F.6010004@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <CAEqgTWZMU+f_TdU73-0a=dOih8cnAO9JMM1J2ObQa8=RWZcwqg@mail.gmail.com>

And may we as a community hence forth have a constructive
discourse.......[1]

Noah

[1] No more mediocrity for it doesn't benefit neither the board nor the
entire community.
On 24 Nov 2015 01:25, "Sunday Folayan" <sunday.folayan at afrinic.net> wrote:

> Dear Badru,
>
> AFRINIC History is not hidden and should not be craftily re-written in
> emails such as these.
>
> You were elected to the Board in May 2012 during AFRINIC-16 at Banjul.
> http://afrinic.net/en/library/news/735-afrinic-elects-new-board-members
>
> You were elected Chair of the Board in August 2012.
> http://afrinic.net/en/library/news/307-main-news-page
>
> The Board met f2f under your watch at AFRINIC-17 in November 2012 in
> Khartoum, Sudan. You did not inherit any budget.
> https://www.afrinic.net/images/doc/board_resolutions_2013.pdf
>
> The AGMM in Lusaka was during AFRINIC-18 in June 2013. You had chaired
> the Board for a whole year.
> https://www.afrinic.net/images/images/agmm_nom_210613_2.pdf  The second
> to the last paragraph on page 3 should remind you.
>
> The AGMM in Djibouti at AfriNIC-20 in June 2014 was your second year
> running as Chair.
>
> You handed over to me during AfriNIC-21 at Mauritius in November 2014.
>
> You left the Board in June 2015 at AfriNIC-22 in Tunis, less that 6
> months ago, after being Chair for over Two years and three months.
>
> I have now Chaired the Board for exactly one Year.
>
> I still accept responsibility for your diagnosis of the pathetic level
> of mediocrity in the current Board, the above is just to set the records
> straight.
>
> Cheers.
>
> SF.
>
> On 23/11/2015 21:08, Badru Ntege wrote:
> > Saul
> >
> > You obviously have a limited understanding of the history. Lusaka was my
> first board and the results being reported were for a budget I inherited.
> For decisions made by a previous board with the best of intentions.
> >
> > If you read clearly my emails which I'm sure you have not you will see
> that half if not the majority of your email with all due respect is
> baseless.
> >
> > I will thus not continue on personalisation since I do not recall any
> personalisation.  Please go back and read all the emails very slowly. I
> have utmost respect for the individuals but does not mean you cannot point
> out what is wrong.
> >
> > Your email is exactly the problem. Afrinic does not belong to any of us
> we will come and go and others will continue but when you think you cannot
> separate individual from the roles they do then we end up accepting
> everything for fear of hurting people's feelings.
> >
> > Just take your time and read all the emails please the comment.
> >
> > Badru Ntege
> > CEO
> > NFT Consult Ltd
> > Www.Nftconsult.com
> >
> > ?Vision without execution is hallucination.?
> > ? Thomas A. Edison
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> On 23 Nov 2015, at 10:35 pm, Saul <saul at enetworks.co.za> wrote:
> >>
> >> Badru, I can no longer refrain from commenting at your constant
> berating,
> >> non-constructive posts, waste of bandwidth, time and being critical of
> the
> >> board, community and its processes - something that you were in charge
> of
> >> until just short of a year ago and then still on the board until the
> last
> >> elections (6 months ago)- so this is something that you are very
> >> responsible for.
> >>
> >> You are constantly making accusations against members of the board in
> this
> >> public forum and with non-public knowledge and then plead NDA when asked
> >> for fact to backup your allegations.
> >>
> >> You are now alluding to your prowess at running a multi million dollar
> >> company, I refer you back to the Lusaka AGMM where AFRINIC, under your
> >> leadership ran at a loss and the financials were late. When questioned
> >> about what you were going to do to rectify the issue, the response was,
> we
> >> don't need to do anything different. Funny thing those financials have
> >> always been a sticky point recently...
> >>
> >> maybe where there is smoke there is fire, so let's stop this non-sense,
> >> we're IT people, like logs, facts don't lie, so lets get these current,
> >> correctly  audited financials and see what status AFRINIC has been left
> >> in.
> >>
> >> I am not interested in a slinging match, so lets keep the mails on this
> >> list factual and constructive
> >>
> >> Saul
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Badru Ntege [mailto:badru.ntege at nftconsult.com]
> >> Sent: 23 November 2015 05:01 PM
> >> To: Randy Bush <randy at psg.com>
> >> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>;
> >> AfriNIC Discuss <members-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
> >> November 2015
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi Randy
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 11/23/15, 5:17 PM, "Randy Bush" <randy at psg.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>> :-) its because the packets are moving fantastically well, need to
> >>>> get the layer 9 to the same level.
> >>> never happen.  layer nine involves all us overevolved funny monkeys.
> >>>
> >>> but, as one of the folk who helped get into the current hole,
> >> Another valid purely subjective view.  One would have to understand all
> >> the dynamics but that would be very difficult in a world of limited
> >> transparency thus your subjective view is based on the pre-edited
> >> information that you have access to.
> >>
> >> So if one really understands the causes as opposed to gueses based on a
> >> particular agenda we could be having additive discussions.  My emails
> try
> >> to be additive but if you look at the responses from the executive they
> >> never dissapoint at dragging the dialogue down. They have earned a
> record
> >> for consistency.
> >>
> >>> i am
> >>> always interested in your constructive suggestions on how to get out.
> >> Thank you. Just like many others I have a vested interest in the good of
> >> the community and will try my best.
> >>
> >>> i am not sure niggling about micro-timing of reports is attacking the
> >>> roots of the problem.
> >> On the contrary it is the root of the problem. It all starts from the
> lack
> >> of order and dedication.  We leave in a world of last minute delivery.
> (on
> >> this one trust me I know.)  So we are ticking boxes without focusing on
> >> the core.
> >>
> >>> otoh, i do look forward to a thorough audit, governance committee,
> >>> etc.
> >> We all do.  I hope your patience has the resilience needed for the
> current
> >> modus operandus.
> >>
> >>> i am patient and i trust the current
> >>> executive.
> >>>
> >>> randy
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Members-Discuss mailing list
> >> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
> > _______________________________________________
> > Members-Discuss mailing list
> > Members-Discuss at afrinic.net
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
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From ntegeb at gmail.com  Mon Nov 23 08:51:59 2015
From: ntegeb at gmail.com (Badru Ntege)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 11:51:59 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
	November 2015
In-Reply-To: <5652C974.8010304@afrinic.net>
References: <5652C974.8010304@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <296958A9-19BB-4F0D-BDD3-A726805706F4@gmail.com>

Chair

Thanks for this 


> On 23 Nov 2015, at 11:08 am, Sunday Folayan <sunday.folayan at afrinic.net> wrote:
> 
>  Dear Members,
> 
> Permit me to update you on some important issues regarding our organization. 
> 
> 1. Audit Report
> The Board will meet on Tuesday 24th November 2015 to approve the Audit Report. It will be released to the Community, preparatory to our SGMM in Point Noire. Sincere Apologies from the Board that we will not be releasing the report before that date. 

Maybe it should be some else asking this but "realy " ???

To my understanding this was the reason of this being an SGMM. 

So why bother to have the meeting  if even after the extension community gave we do not have the documents ready. 

Is there something very wrong ???

> 
> 2. Governance Committee
> As requested by members, GC will be discussed in Point Noire. Due to work pressure on Management, the task of synthesizing the various views and discussions so far on the subject, has only recently been completed. The CEO has provided the Board with a revised draft of the Governance Committee Terms of Reference, and the Board expects to make it public within the next week.
> 

???? We know there is allot of work to do and appreciate but there is something called prioritisation.  

Does board need to approve more staff to get things done ?


>  3. Point Noire Meeting
> Preparatory to our meeting in Point Noire, the Notice of Meeting and the Agenda has already been circulated to: 
>  	* Resource Members
> 	* Registered Members
>  	* Associate Members
>  	* Company Secretary
> 	* Auditor
> 
>  It is important to remind us all, that terror has really taken hold of the world, and fear is the major merchandize being peddled by these terrorists. The global media is also not helping matters with the way these are graphically relayed all over the world.
> 
> The recent bombing in Paris has further underscored the fact that there is no safe place in the world. We just must all be courageous to live our lives.
> 
> AFRINIC has commissioned a site assessment from a reputable security company, and their report is available at <https://meeting.afrinic.net/afrinic-23/en/travel-kit/security-assessment>. The Board is exploring ways and measures to make us all safe during the meeting.
> 
> Please do come to the meeting in Point Noire, but by all means if you cannot come, please make sure you participate remotely.

With the above the least we would expect is that board is ready to have this meeting but expecting people to invest and come and you have not valued our time by being ready.  To complete last years audit report. 

Again maybe I'm just too demanding 

Regards 



> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Sunday Folayan
> Chair, AFRINIC Board
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Members-Discuss mailing list
> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
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From Dewole  Mon Nov 23 14:52:33 2015
From: Dewole (Dewole)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 15:52:33 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
In-Reply-To: <CAEqgTWZwOZnz1Cn2paUCftozw9wNwwd8qGgM_fw-2s36JvrsgA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <CAEqgTWZwOZnz1Cn2paUCftozw9wNwwd8qGgM_fw-2s36JvrsgA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <56532831.2090708@forum.org.ng>

In the interest of the primary business of developing/managing Africa's 
Internet Protocol resources and all else outlined at 
http://www.afrinic.net/en/about-us/origins , may I suggest that all 
(regardless of whatever privileged information we may possess) of us set 
aside any previously exhibited tendencies of individuals/groups and move 
forward?

We need to figure out some way to nurture a transparent atmosphere where 
deliverables are set (and met) based on their importance to the core 
objectives of AfriNIC. If it becomes necessary to call people out 
repeatedly (however subtly it may be done) for whatever reasons, 
relationships could become strained and then focus is in danger of being 
lost. When the challenges (if any) are clear to all, we can together 
figure out ways to sort things out faster.

 From time to time, we might need to remind ourselves just what the 
objectives are and reset our compasses accordingly.

Regards,
Dewole.



From Dewole  Mon Nov 23 15:08:32 2015
From: Dewole (Dewole)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 16:08:32 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Incorrect Public Listing of Members' Standing
Message-ID: <56532BF0.90505@forum.org.ng>

A few minutes ago, I was looking at 
http://www.afrinic.net/en/about-us/our-members and was shocked to find 
so many "reputable" organizations labelled "Not in good standing".

After snickering at a lot of the big names, I scrolled down to find that 
my organization which has *never* fallen behind on AfriNIC membership 
payments is classified as "Not in good standing".

Could the responsible persons within AfriNIC please urgently update the 
displayed status of members? If the list cannot be kept up to date, the 
status should be removed rather than embarrassing members that are in 
fact committed to AfriNIC's sustenance. I'm posting this to the 
community list to remind those that need to pay up that the world sees 
them as well as to let members in good standing know that they world 
might also be seeing them in a bad light.

Thank you.
Dewole.



From Keshwarsingh.Nadan at millenium.mu  Mon Nov 23 18:30:49 2015
From: Keshwarsingh.Nadan at millenium.mu (Keshwarsingh Nadan)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 18:30:49 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
In-Reply-To: <CAEqgTWZ6LvVY_sd4Jq3fgzU5E3ah0VwEutkxUFTDnEuXmdi8dg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <m28u5oub3z.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <F4948B35-06CA-49C7-84CF-38F2970BD5E4@nftconsult.com>
 <m2wpt8ssul.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <D2E99FCB-7468-413E-AC51-33E95A009075@nftconsult.com>
 <m28u5osnli.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <3B88BD8A-17AD-4458-964A-A2562A8CC32B@nftconsult.com>
 <m21tbgslhs.wl%randy@psg.com>,
 <CAEqgTWZ6LvVY_sd4Jq3fgzU5E3ah0VwEutkxUFTDnEuXmdi8dg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2892861F-BF1D-4CB9-BB9D-B557EFF3B616@millenium.mu>

^ A man does not wander far from where his corn is roasting ^

Sent from my iPhone

On 23 Nov 2015, at 21:57, Noah <noah at neo.co.tz<mailto:noah at neo.co.tz>> wrote:


Shall we keep the adrinaline down...

And to some seniors on this list.... some of your subjective opinions are so irrelevant... You ought to be examples considering the years ya'all have spent in this space.....

Some of us didn't even know what the internet was the time you guys were into this whole thing yet it's almost 2016 and this is the best we can do...

I personally really dont care if some folks are experts in handling millions of $$$$ or packets or businesses....

We need to move forward constructively and if we dont have anything useful to contribute .... how about we stay far away from our keyboards as am sure those concerned have received the message......

Noah

On 23 Nov 2015 19:56, "Randy Bush" <randy at psg.com<mailto:randy at psg.com>> wrote:
> they are some organisational issues that one needs to run a
> multimillion dollar entity I?m sure would not be in your domain.

clearly you do not know my history.  i have run a budget of tens of
millions of usd per year.  i did not do so via micro-management.

>> yep.  on your watch.  the buck stops.
> If one were a dictator ...

we call that 'pass the buck'

> Its about understanding each other and the humility to accept when we
> are wrong.

indeed!  that is why we have mirrors.

randy

_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
_______________________________________________
Members-Discuss mailing list
Members-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Members-Discuss at afrinic.net>
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
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From ntegeb at gmail.com  Mon Nov 23 19:54:32 2015
From: ntegeb at gmail.com (Badru Ntege)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 22:54:32 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
	November 2015
In-Reply-To: <m21tbgslhs.wl%randy@psg.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <m28u5oub3z.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <F4948B35-06CA-49C7-84CF-38F2970BD5E4@nftconsult.com>
 <m2wpt8ssul.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <D2E99FCB-7468-413E-AC51-33E95A009075@nftconsult.com>
 <m28u5osnli.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <3B88BD8A-17AD-4458-964A-A2562A8CC32B@nftconsult.com>
 <m21tbgslhs.wl%randy@psg.com>
Message-ID: <C65F121A-0B70-4A66-9B34-68CA7C76874D@gmail.com>

I will make my final comment on this


On 23 Nov 2015, at 7:56 pm, Randy Bush <randy at psg.com> wrote:

>> they are some organisational issues that one needs to run a
>> multimillion dollar entity I?m sure would not be in your domain.
> 
> clearly you do not know my history.  i have run a budget of tens of
> millions of usd per year.  i did not do so via micro-management.

Not sure how demanding adherence to commitments and accountability can be termed as micro-management ?? Clearly I need to go for extra English lessons among other things. 

> 
>>> yep.  on your watch.  the buck stops.
>> If one were a dictator ...
> 
> we call that 'pass the buck'
You see the above was followed by what one would think is the qualified explanation.  But if you just use the above portion of the statement one would agree with you. But I'm sure you know that board decisions are resolutions agreed on by all board members. The details are in the minutes which we cannot get to see. 


> 
>> Its about understanding each other and the humility to accept when we
>> are wrong.
> 
> indeed!  that is why we have mirrors.
> 
> randy
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Members-Discuss mailing list
> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss



From samson.oduor at is.co.ke  Mon Nov 23 10:33:00 2015
From: samson.oduor at is.co.ke (Samson Oduor)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 13:33:00 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC
 Update	23rd	November 2015
In-Reply-To: <139630360.34248.1448271928367.JavaMail.zimbra@tespok.co.ke>
References: <5652C974.8010304@afrinic.net>
 <CAD_dc6i0XHNOHvXMTnvMrJMK_vaOi=puMDPCgHbKm=kxHOC5Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <139630360.34248.1448271928367.JavaMail.zimbra@tespok.co.ke>
Message-ID: <5652EB5C.4010609@is.co.ke>

Good stuff !

On 11/23/2015 12:45 PM, Fiona Asonga wrote:
> Dear Chair
>
> Thanks for the update. Members of the community will be happy to see 
> progress made since our last meeting and not having to repeat the same 
> discussion we had the last time. We really hope the board will be 
> prepared and look forward to a fruitful meeting.
>
> Kind regards
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *"Seun Ojedeji" <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com>
> *To: *"General Discussions of AFRINIC" <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> *Cc: *"AfriNIC Discuss" <members-discuss at afrinic.net>
> *Sent: *Monday, November 23, 2015 12:15:13 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [members-discuss] [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Update 
> 23rd        November 2015
>
> Dear Chair,
>
> Thanks for your mail, from your information it means the audit report 
> will be available tomorrow (the 24th) once the board concludes its 
> meeting. While it would have been good to have this much more earlier 
> than now, i guess a day of patience is still in order considering 
> where we are coming from.
>
> That said, can you confirm if all the meeting minutes have now been 
> published as that was one of the task that the board committed to 
> addressing. On the last point about sighting Paris instance, I don't 
> think we need Paris to be bombed before we know there is security 
> concerns as places closer to us has been experiencing terrorist attack 
> by the day and we have been doing our thing without this much security 
> awareness PR[1]. I value my life but we should not scare ourselves 
> un-necessarily, and certainly the scare should not be as a result of 
> incidents that happened in foreign territories.
>
> Regards
> 1. Anyone who was in Djibouti would recall what happened.
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 9:08 AM, Sunday Folayan 
> <sunday.folayan at afrinic.net <mailto:sunday.folayan at afrinic.net>> wrote:
>
>     *
>
>     Dear Members,
>
>
>     Permit me to update you on some important issues regarding our
>     organization.
>
>
>     1. Audit Report
>
>     The Board will meet on Tuesday 24th November 2015 to approve the
>     Audit Report. It will be released to the Community, preparatory to
>     our SGMM in Point Noire. Sincere Apologies from the Board that we
>     will not be releasing the report before that date.
>
>
>     2. Governance Committee
>
>     As requested by members, GC will be discussed in Point Noire. Due
>     to work pressure on Management, the task of synthesizing the
>     various views and discussions so far on the subject, has only
>     recently been completed. The CEO has provided the Board with a
>     revised draft of the Governance Committee Terms of Reference, and
>     the Board expects to make it public within the next week.
>
>
>     3. Point Noire Meeting
>
>     Preparatory to our meeting in Point Noire, *t*he Notice of Meeting
>     and t*he *Agenda has already been circulated to:
>
>     *
>
>     * Resource Members
>     * Registered Members
>
>     * Associate Members
>
>     * Company Secretary * Auditor
>
>
>     *
>
>     *I*t is important to remind us all, that terror has really taken
>     hold of the world, and fear is the major merchandize being peddled
>     by these terrorists. The global media is also not helping matters
>     with the way these are graphically relayed all over the world.
>
>
>     The recent bombing in Paris has further underscored the fact that
>     there is no safe place in the world. We just must all be
>     courageous to live our lives.
>
>
>     *AFRINIC has commissioned a site assessment from a reputable
>     security company, and their report is available at
>     <https://meeting.afrinic.net/afrinic-23/en/travel-kit/security-assessment>.***
>     *The Board is exploring ways and measures to make us all safe
>     during the meeting.*
>
>     Please do come to the meeting in Point Noire, but by all means if
>     you cannot come, please make sure you participate remotely.
>
>
>     Sincerely,
>
>
>     Sunday Folayan
>
>     Chair, AFRINIC Board
>     *
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Community-Discuss mailing list
>     Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>
>     https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>     /Seun Ojedeji,
>     Federal University Oye-Ekiti
>     web: http://www.fuoye.edu.ng
>     Mobile: +2348035233535
>     //alt email: <http://goog_1872880453>seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng
>     <mailto:seun.ojedeji at fuoye.edu.ng>/
>
>         Bringing another down does not take you up - think about your
>         action!
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Members-Discuss mailing list
> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Members-Discuss mailing list
> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
>    

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From Boubakar.Barry at wacren.net  Mon Nov 23 18:22:02 2015
From: Boubakar.Barry at wacren.net (Boubakar Barry)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 18:22:02 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
	November 2015
In-Reply-To: <CAEqgTWZ6LvVY_sd4Jq3fgzU5E3ah0VwEutkxUFTDnEuXmdi8dg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <m28u5oub3z.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <F4948B35-06CA-49C7-84CF-38F2970BD5E4@nftconsult.com>
 <m2wpt8ssul.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <D2E99FCB-7468-413E-AC51-33E95A009075@nftconsult.com>
 <m28u5osnli.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <3B88BD8A-17AD-4458-964A-A2562A8CC32B@nftconsult.com>
 <m21tbgslhs.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <CAEqgTWZ6LvVY_sd4Jq3fgzU5E3ah0VwEutkxUFTDnEuXmdi8dg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGrBSSh-Xub4wimMn-VnALQkX9b3+Cm2d0o0wZpKfYggBiZwOA@mail.gmail.com>

Very shocked by the language used in some postings.

I think our community deserves better, and more respect.

B.

On Monday, 23 November 2015, Noah <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:

> Shall we keep the adrinaline down...
>
> And to some seniors on this list.... some of your subjective opinions are
> so irrelevant... You ought to be examples considering the years ya'all have
> spent in this space.....
>
> Some of us didn't even know what the internet was the time you guys were
> into this whole thing yet it's almost 2016 and this is the best we can
> do...
>
> I personally really dont care if some folks are experts in handling
> millions of $$$$ or packets or businesses....
>
> We need to move forward constructively and if we dont have anything useful
> to contribute .... how about we stay far away from our keyboards as am sure
> those concerned have received the message......
>
> Noah
> On 23 Nov 2015 19:56, "Randy Bush" <randy at psg.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','randy at psg.com');>> wrote:
>
>> > they are some organisational issues that one needs to run a
>> > multimillion dollar entity I?m sure would not be in your domain.
>>
>> clearly you do not know my history.  i have run a budget of tens of
>> millions of usd per year.  i did not do so via micro-management.
>>
>> >> yep.  on your watch.  the buck stops.
>> > If one were a dictator ...
>>
>> we call that 'pass the buck'
>>
>> > Its about understanding each other and the humility to accept when we
>> > are wrong.
>>
>> indeed!  that is why we have mirrors.
>>
>> randy
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','Community-Discuss at afrinic.net');>
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>

-- 
CEO/Directeur G?n?ral, WACREN
P.O. Box 5353 Dakar-Fann, Senegal
Mob.: +221 776390393 / +233 246682059
Web: http://www.wacren.net

***Keep it simple, as simple as possible, but not simpler. (A. Einstein)***
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From Boubakar.Barry at wacren.net  Mon Nov 23 19:33:29 2015
From: Boubakar.Barry at wacren.net (Boubakar Barry)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 19:33:29 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
	November 2015
In-Reply-To: <m2r3jgr02o.wl%randy@psg.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <m28u5oub3z.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <F4948B35-06CA-49C7-84CF-38F2970BD5E4@nftconsult.com>
 <m2wpt8ssul.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <D2E99FCB-7468-413E-AC51-33E95A009075@nftconsult.com>
 <m28u5osnli.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <3B88BD8A-17AD-4458-964A-A2562A8CC32B@nftconsult.com>
 <m21tbgslhs.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <CAEqgTWZ6LvVY_sd4Jq3fgzU5E3ah0VwEutkxUFTDnEuXmdi8dg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGrBSSh-Xub4wimMn-VnALQkX9b3+Cm2d0o0wZpKfYggBiZwOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <m2r3jgr02o.wl%randy@psg.com>
Message-ID: <CAGrBSSjkMK_gcXODeAuhQrt77HdyvbyWg3ve9G_yntqfUfQnAw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 7:24 PM, Randy Bush <randy at psg.com> wrote:

> > Very shocked by the language used in some postings.
>
> care to quote the shocking language?
>

Most members of our community are far more intelligent than you may think.
No need to ask me/them this question.

Please don't post privately to me.

B.

-- 
CEO/Directeur G?n?ral, WACREN
P.O. Box 5353 Dakar-Fann, Senegal
Mob.: +221 776390393 / +233 246682059
Web: http://www.wacren.net

***Keep it simple, as simple as possible, but not simpler. (A. Einstein)***
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From ntegeb at gmail.com  Mon Nov 23 20:08:16 2015
From: ntegeb at gmail.com (Badru Ntege)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 23:08:16 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
	November 2015
In-Reply-To: <d96546cb.000009d8.000001d0@ws13.eNetworks.local>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <m28u5oub3z.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <F4948B35-06CA-49C7-84CF-38F2970BD5E4@nftconsult.com>
 <m2wpt8ssul.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <D2E99FCB-7468-413E-AC51-33E95A009075@nftconsult.com>
 <d96546cb.000009d8.000001d0@ws13.eNetworks.local>
Message-ID: <02713345-E9CE-496F-8F38-C45A1D4C2D2F@gmail.com>

Saul

You obviously have a limited understanding of the history. Lusaka was my first board and the results being reported were for a budget I inherited.  For decisions made by a previous board with the best of intentions. 

If you read clearly my emails which I'm sure you have not you will see that half if not the majority of your email with all due respect is baseless. 

I will thus not continue on personalisation since I do not recall any personalisation.  Please go back and read all the emails very slowly. I have utmost respect for the individuals but does not mean you cannot point out what is wrong. 

Your email is exactly the problem. Afrinic does not belong to any of us we will come and go and others will continue but when you think you cannot separate individual from the roles they do then we end up accepting everything for fear of hurting people's feelings. 

Just take your time and read all the emails please the comment. 

Badru Ntege
CEO 
NFT Consult Ltd 
Www.Nftconsult.com

?Vision without execution is hallucination.? 
? Thomas A. Edison






> On 23 Nov 2015, at 10:35 pm, Saul <saul at enetworks.co.za> wrote:
> 
> Badru, I can no longer refrain from commenting at your constant berating,
> non-constructive posts, waste of bandwidth, time and being critical of the
> board, community and its processes - something that you were in charge of
> until just short of a year ago and then still on the board until the last
> elections (6 months ago)- so this is something that you are very
> responsible for. 
> 
> You are constantly making accusations against members of the board in this
> public forum and with non-public knowledge and then plead NDA when asked
> for fact to backup your allegations.
> 
> You are now alluding to your prowess at running a multi million dollar
> company, I refer you back to the Lusaka AGMM where AFRINIC, under your
> leadership ran at a loss and the financials were late. When questioned
> about what you were going to do to rectify the issue, the response was, we
> don't need to do anything different. Funny thing those financials have
> always been a sticky point recently... 
> 
> maybe where there is smoke there is fire, so let's stop this non-sense,
> we're IT people, like logs, facts don't lie, so lets get these current,
> correctly  audited financials and see what status AFRINIC has been left
> in.
> 
> I am not interested in a slinging match, so lets keep the mails on this
> list factual and constructive
> 
> Saul
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Badru Ntege [mailto:badru.ntege at nftconsult.com] 
> Sent: 23 November 2015 05:01 PM
> To: Randy Bush <randy at psg.com>
> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>;
> AfriNIC Discuss <members-discuss at afrinic.net>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
> November 2015
> 
> 
> Hi Randy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 11/23/15, 5:17 PM, "Randy Bush" <randy at psg.com> wrote:
> 
>>> :-) its because the packets are moving fantastically well, need to 
>>> get the layer 9 to the same level.
>> 
>> never happen.  layer nine involves all us overevolved funny monkeys.
>> 
>> but, as one of the folk who helped get into the current hole,
> 
> Another valid purely subjective view.  One would have to understand all
> the dynamics but that would be very difficult in a world of limited
> transparency thus your subjective view is based on the pre-edited
> information that you have access to.
> 
> So if one really understands the causes as opposed to gueses based on a
> particular agenda we could be having additive discussions.  My emails try
> to be additive but if you look at the responses from the executive they
> never dissapoint at dragging the dialogue down. They have earned a record
> for consistency.
> 
>> i am
>> always interested in your constructive suggestions on how to get out.
> 
> Thank you. Just like many others I have a vested interest in the good of
> the community and will try my best.
> 
>> i am not sure niggling about micro-timing of reports is attacking the 
>> roots of the problem.
> 
> On the contrary it is the root of the problem. It all starts from the lack
> of order and dedication.  We leave in a world of last minute delivery. (on
> this one trust me I know.)  So we are ticking boxes without focusing on
> the core.
> 
>> otoh, i do look forward to a thorough audit, governance committee, 
>> etc.
> 
> We all do.  I hope your patience has the resilience needed for the current
> modus operandus. 
> 
>> i am patient and i trust the current
>> executive.
>> 
>> randy
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Members-Discuss mailing list
> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss



From Boubakar.Barry at wacren.net  Mon Nov 23 19:39:19 2015
From: Boubakar.Barry at wacren.net (Boubakar Barry)
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2015 19:39:19 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
	November 2015
In-Reply-To: <m2lh9oqzk6.wl%randy@psg.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <m28u5oub3z.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <F4948B35-06CA-49C7-84CF-38F2970BD5E4@nftconsult.com>
 <m2wpt8ssul.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <D2E99FCB-7468-413E-AC51-33E95A009075@nftconsult.com>
 <m28u5osnli.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <3B88BD8A-17AD-4458-964A-A2562A8CC32B@nftconsult.com>
 <m21tbgslhs.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <CAEqgTWZ6LvVY_sd4Jq3fgzU5E3ah0VwEutkxUFTDnEuXmdi8dg@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAGrBSSh-Xub4wimMn-VnALQkX9b3+Cm2d0o0wZpKfYggBiZwOA@mail.gmail.com>
 <m2r3jgr02o.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <CAGrBSSjkMK_gcXODeAuhQrt77HdyvbyWg3ve9G_yntqfUfQnAw@mail.gmail.com>
 <m2lh9oqzk6.wl%randy@psg.com>
Message-ID: <CAGrBSSjAXcyvD+qF1fUinZitX4SdrMzA3P8chYgQdhhkFkw55Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 7:35 PM, Randy Bush <randy at psg.com> wrote:

> >>> Very shocked by the language used in some postings.
> >>
> >> care to quote the shocking language?
> >
> > Most members of our community are far more intelligent than you may
> think.
> > No need to ask me/them this question.
> >
> > Please don't post privately to me.
>
> and please do not post private correspondence publicly.  it has been
> considered very rude for a few decades.
>
> and i think you have answered my question.  thank you.
>

You're most welcome.

And the above line will be my last exchange with you on this.

B.


>
> randy
>


-- 
CEO/Directeur G?n?ral, WACREN
P.O. Box 5353 Dakar-Fann, Senegal
Mob.: +221 776390393 / +233 246682059
Web: http://www.wacren.net

***Keep it simple, as simple as possible, but not simpler. (A. Einstein)***
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From christianbope at gmail.com  Tue Nov 24 00:29:24 2015
From: christianbope at gmail.com (Bope Domilongo Christian)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 08:29:24 +0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
In-Reply-To: <5653921F.6010004@afrinic.net>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <m28u5oub3z.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <F4948B35-06CA-49C7-84CF-38F2970BD5E4@nftconsult.com>
 <m2wpt8ssul.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <D2E99FCB-7468-413E-AC51-33E95A009075@nftconsult.com>
 <d96546cb.000009d8.000001d0@ws13.eNetworks.local>
 <02713345-E9CE-496F-8F38-C45A1D4C2D2F@gmail.com>
 <5653921F.6010004@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <CAN7nxtMJ+39AsN+pdonninDX24QdQRg=zo_bw2BN=aa8F680vQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all,

I honestly think we should let the debate be open and transparent for the
interest and the development of the organization. Furthermore I do not
think the Board should not target single member of the community related to
his view and opinion which could be different.

I have seen a lot of contribution from different members of communities
which I really appreciate in order to improve what need to be improve
"there will be always room for improvement. I do thing the Board should
accept others view and critics not targeting specific member.

Finally I will advocate a respectful  open debate professional.

Speaking on my own capacity

Regards
On 24 Nov 2015 6:26 am, "Sunday Folayan" <sunday.folayan at afrinic.net> wrote:

> Dear Badru,
>
> AFRINIC History is not hidden and should not be craftily re-written in
> emails such as these.
>
> You were elected to the Board in May 2012 during AFRINIC-16 at Banjul.
> http://afrinic.net/en/library/news/735-afrinic-elects-new-board-members
>
> You were elected Chair of the Board in August 2012.
> http://afrinic.net/en/library/news/307-main-news-page
>
> The Board met f2f under your watch at AFRINIC-17 in November 2012 in
> Khartoum, Sudan. You did not inherit any budget.
> https://www.afrinic.net/images/doc/board_resolutions_2013.pdf
>
> The AGMM in Lusaka was during AFRINIC-18 in June 2013. You had chaired
> the Board for a whole year.
> https://www.afrinic.net/images/images/agmm_nom_210613_2.pdf  The second
> to the last paragraph on page 3 should remind you.
>
> The AGMM in Djibouti at AfriNIC-20 in June 2014 was your second year
> running as Chair.
>
> You handed over to me during AfriNIC-21 at Mauritius in November 2014.
>
> You left the Board in June 2015 at AfriNIC-22 in Tunis, less that 6
> months ago, after being Chair for over Two years and three months.
>
> I have now Chaired the Board for exactly one Year.
>
> I still accept responsibility for your diagnosis of the pathetic level
> of mediocrity in the current Board, the above is just to set the records
> straight.
>
> Cheers.
>
> SF.
>
> On 23/11/2015 21:08, Badru Ntege wrote:
> > Saul
> >
> > You obviously have a limited understanding of the history. Lusaka was my
> first board and the results being reported were for a budget I inherited.
> For decisions made by a previous board with the best of intentions.
> >
> > If you read clearly my emails which I'm sure you have not you will see
> that half if not the majority of your email with all due respect is
> baseless.
> >
> > I will thus not continue on personalisation since I do not recall any
> personalisation.  Please go back and read all the emails very slowly. I
> have utmost respect for the individuals but does not mean you cannot point
> out what is wrong.
> >
> > Your email is exactly the problem. Afrinic does not belong to any of us
> we will come and go and others will continue but when you think you cannot
> separate individual from the roles they do then we end up accepting
> everything for fear of hurting people's feelings.
> >
> > Just take your time and read all the emails please the comment.
> >
> > Badru Ntege
> > CEO
> > NFT Consult Ltd
> > Www.Nftconsult.com
> >
> > ?Vision without execution is hallucination.?
> > ? Thomas A. Edison
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> On 23 Nov 2015, at 10:35 pm, Saul <saul at enetworks.co.za> wrote:
> >>
> >> Badru, I can no longer refrain from commenting at your constant
> berating,
> >> non-constructive posts, waste of bandwidth, time and being critical of
> the
> >> board, community and its processes - something that you were in charge
> of
> >> until just short of a year ago and then still on the board until the
> last
> >> elections (6 months ago)- so this is something that you are very
> >> responsible for.
> >>
> >> You are constantly making accusations against members of the board in
> this
> >> public forum and with non-public knowledge and then plead NDA when asked
> >> for fact to backup your allegations.
> >>
> >> You are now alluding to your prowess at running a multi million dollar
> >> company, I refer you back to the Lusaka AGMM where AFRINIC, under your
> >> leadership ran at a loss and the financials were late. When questioned
> >> about what you were going to do to rectify the issue, the response was,
> we
> >> don't need to do anything different. Funny thing those financials have
> >> always been a sticky point recently...
> >>
> >> maybe where there is smoke there is fire, so let's stop this non-sense,
> >> we're IT people, like logs, facts don't lie, so lets get these current,
> >> correctly  audited financials and see what status AFRINIC has been left
> >> in.
> >>
> >> I am not interested in a slinging match, so lets keep the mails on this
> >> list factual and constructive
> >>
> >> Saul
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Badru Ntege [mailto:badru.ntege at nftconsult.com]
> >> Sent: 23 November 2015 05:01 PM
> >> To: Randy Bush <randy at psg.com>
> >> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>;
> >> AfriNIC Discuss <members-discuss at afrinic.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
> >> November 2015
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi Randy
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 11/23/15, 5:17 PM, "Randy Bush" <randy at psg.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>> :-) its because the packets are moving fantastically well, need to
> >>>> get the layer 9 to the same level.
> >>> never happen.  layer nine involves all us overevolved funny monkeys.
> >>>
> >>> but, as one of the folk who helped get into the current hole,
> >> Another valid purely subjective view.  One would have to understand all
> >> the dynamics but that would be very difficult in a world of limited
> >> transparency thus your subjective view is based on the pre-edited
> >> information that you have access to.
> >>
> >> So if one really understands the causes as opposed to gueses based on a
> >> particular agenda we could be having additive discussions.  My emails
> try
> >> to be additive but if you look at the responses from the executive they
> >> never dissapoint at dragging the dialogue down. They have earned a
> record
> >> for consistency.
> >>
> >>> i am
> >>> always interested in your constructive suggestions on how to get out.
> >> Thank you. Just like many others I have a vested interest in the good of
> >> the community and will try my best.
> >>
> >>> i am not sure niggling about micro-timing of reports is attacking the
> >>> roots of the problem.
> >> On the contrary it is the root of the problem. It all starts from the
> lack
> >> of order and dedication.  We leave in a world of last minute delivery.
> (on
> >> this one trust me I know.)  So we are ticking boxes without focusing on
> >> the core.
> >>
> >>> otoh, i do look forward to a thorough audit, governance committee,
> >>> etc.
> >> We all do.  I hope your patience has the resilience needed for the
> current
> >> modus operandus.
> >>
> >>> i am patient and i trust the current
> >>> executive.
> >>>
> >>> randy
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Community-Discuss mailing list
> >> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Members-Discuss mailing list
> >> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net
> >> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
> > _______________________________________________
> > Members-Discuss mailing list
> > Members-Discuss at afrinic.net
> > https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Members-Discuss mailing list
> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
>
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From ntegeb at gmail.com  Tue Nov 24 02:37:23 2015
From: ntegeb at gmail.com (Badru Ntege)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 05:37:23 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
	November 2015
In-Reply-To: <5653921F.6010004@afrinic.net>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <m28u5oub3z.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <F4948B35-06CA-49C7-84CF-38F2970BD5E4@nftconsult.com>
 <m2wpt8ssul.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <D2E99FCB-7468-413E-AC51-33E95A009075@nftconsult.com>
 <d96546cb.000009d8.000001d0@ws13.eNetworks.local>
 <02713345-E9CE-496F-8F38-C45A1D4C2D2F@gmail.com>
 <5653921F.6010004@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <94F91B40-A6F6-4BFB-8443-23399857BA4E@gmail.com>

Dear chair 

I had decided to stop this dialogue but I will just correct 1 point in your email. 

An audit report is for the previous year which means jan to December 

The budget reported in Lusaka was for jan 2012 to December 2012

As correctly stated by you I was elected in August 2012. 


When we met in Khartoum we discussed the budget for jan 2013 to December 2013. 

Please check again with your details how and when the majority of a budget is executed and when the financial basis is realised. 

Public minutes are a wonderful thing since this detail would have been obvious to all including you chair. 

Regards 

Badru Ntege
CEO 
NFT Consult Ltd 
Www.Nftconsult.com

?Vision without execution is hallucination.? 
? Thomas A. Edison






> On 24 Nov 2015, at 1:24 am, Sunday Folayan <sunday.folayan at afrinic.net> wrote:
> 
> Dear Badru,
> 
> AFRINIC History is not hidden and should not be craftily re-written in
> emails such as these.
> 
> You were elected to the Board in May 2012 during AFRINIC-16 at Banjul.
> http://afrinic.net/en/library/news/735-afrinic-elects-new-board-members
> 
> You were elected Chair of the Board in August 2012. 
> http://afrinic.net/en/library/news/307-main-news-page
> 
> The Board met f2f under your watch at AFRINIC-17 in November 2012 in
> Khartoum, Sudan. You did not inherit any budget.
> https://www.afrinic.net/images/doc/board_resolutions_2013.pdf
> 
> The AGMM in Lusaka was during AFRINIC-18 in June 2013. You had chaired
> the Board for a whole year.
> https://www.afrinic.net/images/images/agmm_nom_210613_2.pdf  The second
> to the last paragraph on page 3 should remind you.
> 
> The AGMM in Djibouti at AfriNIC-20 in June 2014 was your second year
> running as Chair.
> 
> You handed over to me during AfriNIC-21 at Mauritius in November 2014.
> 
> You left the Board in June 2015 at AfriNIC-22 in Tunis, less that 6
> months ago, after being Chair for over Two years and three months.
> 
> I have now Chaired the Board for exactly one Year.
> 
> I still accept responsibility for your diagnosis of the pathetic level
> of mediocrity in the current Board, the above is just to set the records
> straight.
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> SF.
> 
>> On 23/11/2015 21:08, Badru Ntege wrote:
>> Saul
>> 
>> You obviously have a limited understanding of the history. Lusaka was my first board and the results being reported were for a budget I inherited.  For decisions made by a previous board with the best of intentions. 
>> 
>> If you read clearly my emails which I'm sure you have not you will see that half if not the majority of your email with all due respect is baseless. 
>> 
>> I will thus not continue on personalisation since I do not recall any personalisation.  Please go back and read all the emails very slowly. I have utmost respect for the individuals but does not mean you cannot point out what is wrong. 
>> 
>> Your email is exactly the problem. Afrinic does not belong to any of us we will come and go and others will continue but when you think you cannot separate individual from the roles they do then we end up accepting everything for fear of hurting people's feelings. 
>> 
>> Just take your time and read all the emails please the comment. 
>> 
>> Badru Ntege
>> CEO 
>> NFT Consult Ltd 
>> Www.Nftconsult.com
>> 
>> ?Vision without execution is hallucination.? 
>> ? Thomas A. Edison
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 23 Nov 2015, at 10:35 pm, Saul <saul at enetworks.co.za> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Badru, I can no longer refrain from commenting at your constant berating,
>>> non-constructive posts, waste of bandwidth, time and being critical of the
>>> board, community and its processes - something that you were in charge of
>>> until just short of a year ago and then still on the board until the last
>>> elections (6 months ago)- so this is something that you are very
>>> responsible for. 
>>> 
>>> You are constantly making accusations against members of the board in this
>>> public forum and with non-public knowledge and then plead NDA when asked
>>> for fact to backup your allegations.
>>> 
>>> You are now alluding to your prowess at running a multi million dollar
>>> company, I refer you back to the Lusaka AGMM where AFRINIC, under your
>>> leadership ran at a loss and the financials were late. When questioned
>>> about what you were going to do to rectify the issue, the response was, we
>>> don't need to do anything different. Funny thing those financials have
>>> always been a sticky point recently... 
>>> 
>>> maybe where there is smoke there is fire, so let's stop this non-sense,
>>> we're IT people, like logs, facts don't lie, so lets get these current,
>>> correctly  audited financials and see what status AFRINIC has been left
>>> in.
>>> 
>>> I am not interested in a slinging match, so lets keep the mails on this
>>> list factual and constructive
>>> 
>>> Saul
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Badru Ntege [mailto:badru.ntege at nftconsult.com] 
>>> Sent: 23 November 2015 05:01 PM
>>> To: Randy Bush <randy at psg.com>
>>> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>;
>>> AfriNIC Discuss <members-discuss at afrinic.net>
>>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
>>> November 2015
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi Randy
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 11/23/15, 5:17 PM, "Randy Bush" <randy at psg.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>>> :-) its because the packets are moving fantastically well, need to 
>>>>> get the layer 9 to the same level.
>>>> never happen.  layer nine involves all us overevolved funny monkeys.
>>>> 
>>>> but, as one of the folk who helped get into the current hole,
>>> Another valid purely subjective view.  One would have to understand all
>>> the dynamics but that would be very difficult in a world of limited
>>> transparency thus your subjective view is based on the pre-edited
>>> information that you have access to.
>>> 
>>> So if one really understands the causes as opposed to gueses based on a
>>> particular agenda we could be having additive discussions.  My emails try
>>> to be additive but if you look at the responses from the executive they
>>> never dissapoint at dragging the dialogue down. They have earned a record
>>> for consistency.
>>> 
>>>> i am
>>>> always interested in your constructive suggestions on how to get out.
>>> Thank you. Just like many others I have a vested interest in the good of
>>> the community and will try my best.
>>> 
>>>> i am not sure niggling about micro-timing of reports is attacking the 
>>>> roots of the problem.
>>> On the contrary it is the root of the problem. It all starts from the lack
>>> of order and dedication.  We leave in a world of last minute delivery. (on
>>> this one trust me I know.)  So we are ticking boxes without focusing on
>>> the core.
>>> 
>>>> otoh, i do look forward to a thorough audit, governance committee, 
>>>> etc.
>>> We all do.  I hope your patience has the resilience needed for the current
>>> modus operandus. 
>>> 
>>>> i am patient and i trust the current
>>>> executive.
>>>> 
>>>> randy
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Members-Discuss mailing list
>>> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net
>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
>> _______________________________________________
>> Members-Discuss mailing list
>> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
> 
> 



From mark.tinka at seacom.mu  Tue Nov 24 08:18:21 2015
From: mark.tinka at seacom.mu (Mark Tinka)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 10:18:21 +0200
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Incorrect Public Listing of Members'
	Standing
In-Reply-To: <56532BF0.90505@forum.org.ng>
References: <56532BF0.90505@forum.org.ng>
Message-ID: <56541D4D.8060803@seacom.mu>



On 23/Nov/15 17:08, Dewole Ajao [Bandwidth Consortium] wrote:

> A few minutes ago, I was looking at
> http://www.afrinic.net/en/about-us/our-members and was shocked to find
> so many "reputable" organizations labelled "Not in good standing".
>
> After snickering at a lot of the big names, I scrolled down to find
> that my organization which has *never* fallen behind on AfriNIC
> membership payments is classified as "Not in good standing".
>
> Could the responsible persons within AfriNIC please urgently update
> the displayed status of members? If the list cannot be kept up to
> date, the status should be removed rather than embarrassing members
> that are in fact committed to AfriNIC's sustenance. I'm posting this
> to the community list to remind those that need to pay up that the
> world sees them as well as to let members in good standing know that
> they world might also be seeing them in a bad light.

Agree.

I believe the data is incorrect.

I don't mind naming & shaming, but if we must, the state of standing
needs to be made dynamic, in case this is currently a manual process.

Mark.



From saul at enetworks.co.za  Tue Nov 24 08:21:57 2015
From: saul at enetworks.co.za (Saul)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 10:21:57 +0200 (SAST)
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Incorrect Public Listing of Members'
	Standing
In-Reply-To: <56532BF0.90505@forum.org.ng>
References: <56532BF0.90505@forum.org.ng>
Message-ID: <eb7eaec4.000009d8.000001fb@ws13.eNetworks.local>

Wow, that is very scary.
I too find our organization listed as "not in good standing" while we have
always paid in advance - the same for the majority of members. As per that
list, in ZA, out of 305 members, there are only 44 in good standing, the
same ratios in most countries.

I image that this would take some time to update and therefor ask that
this page is removed with immediate effect until it can be rectified!

Thanks
Saul


-----Original Message-----
From: Dewole Ajao [Bandwidth Consortium] [mailto:dewole at forum.org.ng] 
Sent: 23 November 2015 05:09 PM
To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
Cc: billing at afrinic.net
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Incorrect Public Listing of Members' Standing

A few minutes ago, I was looking at
http://www.afrinic.net/en/about-us/our-members and was shocked to find so
many "reputable" organizations labelled "Not in good standing".

After snickering at a lot of the big names, I scrolled down to find that
my organization which has *never* fallen behind on AfriNIC membership
payments is classified as "Not in good standing".

Could the responsible persons within AfriNIC please urgently update the
displayed status of members? If the list cannot be kept up to date, the
status should be removed rather than embarrassing members that are in fact
committed to AfriNIC's sustenance. I'm posting this to the community list
to remind those that need to pay up that the world sees them as well as to
let members in good standing know that they world might also be seeing
them in a bad light.

Thank you.
Dewole.

_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss



From silber.mike at gmail.com  Tue Nov 24 08:52:28 2015
From: silber.mike at gmail.com (Mike Silber)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 10:52:28 +0200
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Is this on the correct mailing list? (was Re:
 Incorrect Public Listing of Members' Standing)
In-Reply-To: <eb7eaec4.000009d8.000001fb@ws13.eNetworks.local>
References: <56532BF0.90505@forum.org.ng>
 <eb7eaec4.000009d8.000001fb@ws13.eNetworks.local>
Message-ID: <5654254C.5000005@gmail.com>

Colleagues

Valid points all. However I would think this is more appropriately 
addressed on the members mailing list and not the community mailing list?

However, if the distinction is not relevant (and most people behave that 
way, or copy both lists), should we not just collapse the two lists into 
one?

Regards

Mike

On 24/11/2015 10:21, Saul wrote:
> Wow, that is very scary.
>




From sunday.folayan at afrinic.net  Tue Nov 24 09:06:05 2015
From: sunday.folayan at afrinic.net (Sunday Folayan)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 10:06:05 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
In-Reply-To: <CAN7nxtMJ+39AsN+pdonninDX24QdQRg=zo_bw2BN=aa8F680vQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <m28u5oub3z.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <F4948B35-06CA-49C7-84CF-38F2970BD5E4@nftconsult.com>
 <m2wpt8ssul.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <D2E99FCB-7468-413E-AC51-33E95A009075@nftconsult.com>
 <d96546cb.000009d8.000001d0@ws13.eNetworks.local>
 <02713345-E9CE-496F-8F38-C45A1D4C2D2F@gmail.com>
 <5653921F.6010004@afrinic.net>
 <CAN7nxtMJ+39AsN+pdonninDX24QdQRg=zo_bw2BN=aa8F680vQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5654287D.70201@afrinic.net>

Dear Christian,

Please do not miss the point being made.

I took over as Chair in November 2014. That is just 2 months to the end
of 2014. I am responsible for the 2014 Audited Accounts no passing the
buck. I took the flak and heat in Tunis, and with dignity, without
reminding anyone that I was just chair for 2 months. Does that make
sense now?

Rewind way back to 2012. Badru took over as Chair in August 2012. He
should take responsibility for 2012 and 2013, and not pass it.

I will ignore the other usual innuendoes regarding Board vs Community.

Cheers.

Sunday.

On 24/11/2015 01:29, Bope Domilongo Christian wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I honestly think we should let the debate be open and transparent for the
> interest and the development of the organization. Furthermore I do not
> think the Board should not target single member of the community related to
> his view and opinion which could be different.
>
> I have seen a lot of contribution from different members of communities
> which I really appreciate in order to improve what need to be improve
> "there will be always room for improvement. I do thing the Board should
> accept others view and critics not targeting specific member.
>
> Finally I will advocate a respectful  open debate professional.
>
> Speaking on my own capacity
>
> Regards
> On 24 Nov 2015 6:26 am, "Sunday Folayan" <sunday.folayan at afrinic.net> wrote:
>
>> Dear Badru,
>>
>> AFRINIC History is not hidden and should not be craftily re-written in
>> emails such as these.
>>
>> You were elected to the Board in May 2012 during AFRINIC-16 at Banjul.
>> http://afrinic.net/en/library/news/735-afrinic-elects-new-board-members
>>
>> You were elected Chair of the Board in August 2012.
>> http://afrinic.net/en/library/news/307-main-news-page
>>
>> The Board met f2f under your watch at AFRINIC-17 in November 2012 in
>> Khartoum, Sudan. You did not inherit any budget.
>> https://www.afrinic.net/images/doc/board_resolutions_2013.pdf
>>
>> The AGMM in Lusaka was during AFRINIC-18 in June 2013. You had chaired
>> the Board for a whole year.
>> https://www.afrinic.net/images/images/agmm_nom_210613_2.pdf  The second
>> to the last paragraph on page 3 should remind you.
>>
>> The AGMM in Djibouti at AfriNIC-20 in June 2014 was your second year
>> running as Chair.
>>
>> You handed over to me during AfriNIC-21 at Mauritius in November 2014.
>>
>> You left the Board in June 2015 at AfriNIC-22 in Tunis, less that 6
>> months ago, after being Chair for over Two years and three months.
>>
>> I have now Chaired the Board for exactly one Year.
>>
>> I still accept responsibility for your diagnosis of the pathetic level
>> of mediocrity in the current Board, the above is just to set the records
>> straight.
>>
>> Cheers.
>>
>> SF.
>>
>> On 23/11/2015 21:08, Badru Ntege wrote:
>>> Saul
>>>
>>> You obviously have a limited understanding of the history. Lusaka was my
>> first board and the results being reported were for a budget I inherited.
>> For decisions made by a previous board with the best of intentions.
>>> If you read clearly my emails which I'm sure you have not you will see
>> that half if not the majority of your email with all due respect is
>> baseless.
>>> I will thus not continue on personalisation since I do not recall any
>> personalisation.  Please go back and read all the emails very slowly. I
>> have utmost respect for the individuals but does not mean you cannot point
>> out what is wrong.
>>> Your email is exactly the problem. Afrinic does not belong to any of us
>> we will come and go and others will continue but when you think you cannot
>> separate individual from the roles they do then we end up accepting
>> everything for fear of hurting people's feelings.
>>> Just take your time and read all the emails please the comment.
>>>
>>> Badru Ntege
>>> CEO
>>> NFT Consult Ltd
>>> Www.Nftconsult.com
>>>
>>> ?Vision without execution is hallucination.?
>>> ? Thomas A. Edison
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 23 Nov 2015, at 10:35 pm, Saul <saul at enetworks.co.za> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Badru, I can no longer refrain from commenting at your constant
>> berating,
>>>> non-constructive posts, waste of bandwidth, time and being critical of
>> the
>>>> board, community and its processes - something that you were in charge
>> of
>>>> until just short of a year ago and then still on the board until the
>> last
>>>> elections (6 months ago)- so this is something that you are very
>>>> responsible for.
>>>>
>>>> You are constantly making accusations against members of the board in
>> this
>>>> public forum and with non-public knowledge and then plead NDA when asked
>>>> for fact to backup your allegations.
>>>>
>>>> You are now alluding to your prowess at running a multi million dollar
>>>> company, I refer you back to the Lusaka AGMM where AFRINIC, under your
>>>> leadership ran at a loss and the financials were late. When questioned
>>>> about what you were going to do to rectify the issue, the response was,
>> we
>>>> don't need to do anything different. Funny thing those financials have
>>>> always been a sticky point recently...
>>>>
>>>> maybe where there is smoke there is fire, so let's stop this non-sense,
>>>> we're IT people, like logs, facts don't lie, so lets get these current,
>>>> correctly  audited financials and see what status AFRINIC has been left
>>>> in.
>>>>
>>>> I am not interested in a slinging match, so lets keep the mails on this
>>>> list factual and constructive
>>>>
>>>> Saul
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Badru Ntege [mailto:badru.ntege at nftconsult.com]
>>>> Sent: 23 November 2015 05:01 PM
>>>> To: Randy Bush <randy at psg.com>
>>>> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>;
>>>> AfriNIC Discuss <members-discuss at afrinic.net>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
>>>> November 2015
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Randy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 11/23/15, 5:17 PM, "Randy Bush" <randy at psg.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> :-) its because the packets are moving fantastically well, need to
>>>>>> get the layer 9 to the same level.
>>>>> never happen.  layer nine involves all us overevolved funny monkeys.
>>>>>
>>>>> but, as one of the folk who helped get into the current hole,
>>>> Another valid purely subjective view.  One would have to understand all
>>>> the dynamics but that would be very difficult in a world of limited
>>>> transparency thus your subjective view is based on the pre-edited
>>>> information that you have access to.
>>>>
>>>> So if one really understands the causes as opposed to gueses based on a
>>>> particular agenda we could be having additive discussions.  My emails
>> try
>>>> to be additive but if you look at the responses from the executive they
>>>> never dissapoint at dragging the dialogue down. They have earned a
>> record
>>>> for consistency.
>>>>
>>>>> i am
>>>>> always interested in your constructive suggestions on how to get out.
>>>> Thank you. Just like many others I have a vested interest in the good of
>>>> the community and will try my best.
>>>>
>>>>> i am not sure niggling about micro-timing of reports is attacking the
>>>>> roots of the problem.
>>>> On the contrary it is the root of the problem. It all starts from the
>> lack
>>>> of order and dedication.  We leave in a world of last minute delivery.
>> (on
>>>> this one trust me I know.)  So we are ticking boxes without focusing on
>>>> the core.
>>>>
>>>>> otoh, i do look forward to a thorough audit, governance committee,
>>>>> etc.
>>>> We all do.  I hope your patience has the resilience needed for the
>> current
>>>> modus operandus.
>>>>
>>>>> i am patient and i trust the current
>>>>> executive.
>>>>>
>>>>> randy
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Members-Discuss mailing list
>>>> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net
>>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Members-Discuss mailing list
>>> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net
>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Members-Discuss mailing list
>> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Members-Discuss mailing list
> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss

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From alan.barrett at afrinic.net  Tue Nov 24 09:10:14 2015
From: alan.barrett at afrinic.net (Alan Barrett)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 13:10:14 +0400
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Incorrect Public Listing of Members'
	Standing
In-Reply-To: <56532BF0.90505@forum.org.ng>
References: <56532BF0.90505@forum.org.ng>
Message-ID: <012C5155-AD3D-4E10-9153-6C5D54D0882B@afrinic.net>


> On 23 Nov 2015, at 19:08, Dewole Ajao [Bandwidth Consortium] <dewole at forum.org.ng> wrote:
> 
> A few minutes ago, I was looking at http://www.afrinic.net/en/about-us/our-members and was shocked to find so many "reputable" organizations labelled "Not in good standing?.

Thank you for this report.

We have identified the problem:  Invoices for the 2016 year have already been issued, but they are only due for payment in January 2016.  As you would expect, only a few members have paid their 2016 invoices so early.

However, the automated system that checks for unpaid invoices did not understand that some unpaid invoices are normal, when the invoices are not yet due for payment.  It therefore marked almost all members as ?not in good standing?.

The software issue will be corrected as soon as possible.

Alan Barrett
CEO, AFRINIC


From mje at posix.co.za  Tue Nov 24 09:12:46 2015
From: mje at posix.co.za (Mark Elkins)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 11:12:46 +0200
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Incorrect Public Listing of Members'
 Standing
In-Reply-To: <eb7eaec4.000009d8.000001fb@ws13.eNetworks.local>
References: <56532BF0.90505@forum.org.ng>
 <eb7eaec4.000009d8.000001fb@ws13.eNetworks.local>
Message-ID: <1448356366.4652.28.camel@posix.co.za>

I'd agree with Saul on this.

Billing has started for next year (2016). I'm aware that the ZACR has
received and paid this bill.

I believe the normal billing period is from 1st Jan to 31st Dec - so it
seems wrong to label people as "Not in good standing".

I actually thought that people are only "late" after the end of
January... 

On Tue, 2015-11-24 at 10:21 +0200, Saul wrote:
> Wow, that is very scary.
> I too find our organization listed as "not in good standing" while we have
> always paid in advance - the same for the majority of members. As per that
> list, in ZA, out of 305 members, there are only 44 in good standing, the
> same ratios in most countries.
> 
> I image that this would take some time to update and therefor ask that
> this page is removed with immediate effect until it can be rectified!
> 
> Thanks
> Saul
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dewole Ajao [Bandwidth Consortium] [mailto:dewole at forum.org.ng] 
> Sent: 23 November 2015 05:09 PM
> To: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
> Cc: billing at afrinic.net
> Subject: [Community-Discuss] Incorrect Public Listing of Members' Standing
> 
> A few minutes ago, I was looking at
> http://www.afrinic.net/en/about-us/our-members and was shocked to find so
> many "reputable" organizations labelled "Not in good standing".
> 
> After snickering at a lot of the big names, I scrolled down to find that
> my organization which has *never* fallen behind on AfriNIC membership
> payments is classified as "Not in good standing".
> 
> Could the responsible persons within AfriNIC please urgently update the
> displayed status of members? If the list cannot be kept up to date, the
> status should be removed rather than embarrassing members that are in fact
> committed to AfriNIC's sustenance. I'm posting this to the community list
> to remind those that need to pay up that the world sees them as well as to
> let members in good standing know that they world might also be seeing
> them in a bad light.
> 
> Thank you.
> Dewole.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

-- 
Mark James ELKINS  -  Posix Systems - (South) Africa
mje at posix.co.za       Tel: +27.128070590  Cell: +27.826010496
For fast, reliable, low cost Internet in ZA: https://ftth.posix.co.za
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From christianbope at gmail.com  Tue Nov 24 11:20:29 2015
From: christianbope at gmail.com (Bope Domilongo Christian)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 19:20:29 +0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
In-Reply-To: <5654287D.70201@afrinic.net>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <m28u5oub3z.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <F4948B35-06CA-49C7-84CF-38F2970BD5E4@nftconsult.com>
 <m2wpt8ssul.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <D2E99FCB-7468-413E-AC51-33E95A009075@nftconsult.com>
 <d96546cb.000009d8.000001d0@ws13.eNetworks.local>
 <02713345-E9CE-496F-8F38-C45A1D4C2D2F@gmail.com>
 <5653921F.6010004@afrinic.net>
 <CAN7nxtMJ+39AsN+pdonninDX24QdQRg=zo_bw2BN=aa8F680vQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5654287D.70201@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <CAN7nxtO--_iMSZuzjrABE7Pdz6T4_DC8FAYWt0YW8fycNO42Rg@mail.gmail.com>

Dear Sunday,

"Speaking on my own capacity"

I honestly thing and most of the members will agree with me that there is
no need of wasting our energy in personalizing the debate by targeting
single members of the community. Furthermore since Lusaka 2013, AfriNIC
Board have implemented drastic measure to increase the revenue which should
not be also ignore and the result will be visible in near future.

I personally thing the success and the failure belong to all of us not to
single members (Board, community). More importantly we MUST always keep in
mind that AfriNIC is "Community Driven Organization" and one should NOT
forget the accountability of the Board to the community.

Last but not the least, for the interest of fair and transparent debate
where all members of the communities will be at the same page and have the
same understanding level and able to cross-checked every single decision
taken for the Board  will be when the Minutes of Board Meeting will be
available online otherwise Members do NOT really know who is correct or not.


Regards,
Bope





On 24 November 2015 at 17:06, Sunday Folayan <sunday.folayan at afrinic.net>
wrote:

> Dear Christian,
>
> Please do not miss the point being made.
>
> I took over as Chair in November 2014. That is just 2 months to the end of
> 2014. I am responsible for the 2014 Audited Accounts no passing the buck. I
> took the flak and heat in Tunis, and with dignity, without reminding anyone
> that I was just chair for 2 months. Does that make sense now?
>
> Rewind way back to 2012. Badru took over as Chair in August 2012. He
> should take responsibility for 2012 and 2013, and not pass it.
>
> I will ignore the other usual innuendoes regarding Board vs Community.
>
> Cheers.
>
> Sunday.
>
>
> On 24/11/2015 01:29, Bope Domilongo Christian wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
> I honestly think we should let the debate be open and transparent for the
> interest and the development of the organization. Furthermore I do not
> think the Board should not target single member of the community related to
> his view and opinion which could be different.
>
> I have seen a lot of contribution from different members of communities
> which I really appreciate in order to improve what need to be improve
> "there will be always room for improvement. I do thing the Board should
> accept others view and critics not targeting specific member.
>
> Finally I will advocate a respectful  open debate professional.
>
> Speaking on my own capacity
>
> Regards
> On 24 Nov 2015 6:26 am, "Sunday Folayan" <sunday.folayan at afrinic.net> <sunday.folayan at afrinic.net> wrote:
>
>
> Dear Badru,
>
> AFRINIC History is not hidden and should not be craftily re-written in
> emails such as these.
>
> You were elected to the Board in May 2012 during AFRINIC-16 at Banjul.http://afrinic.net/en/library/news/735-afrinic-elects-new-board-members
>
> You were elected Chair of the Board in August 2012.http://afrinic.net/en/library/news/307-main-news-page
>
> The Board met f2f under your watch at AFRINIC-17 in November 2012 in
> Khartoum, Sudan. You did not inherit any budget.https://www.afrinic.net/images/doc/board_resolutions_2013.pdf
>
> The AGMM in Lusaka was during AFRINIC-18 in June 2013. You had chaired
> the Board for a whole year.https://www.afrinic.net/images/images/agmm_nom_210613_2.pdf  The second
> to the last paragraph on page 3 should remind you.
>
> The AGMM in Djibouti at AfriNIC-20 in June 2014 was your second year
> running as Chair.
>
> You handed over to me during AfriNIC-21 at Mauritius in November 2014.
>
> You left the Board in June 2015 at AfriNIC-22 in Tunis, less that 6
> months ago, after being Chair for over Two years and three months.
>
> I have now Chaired the Board for exactly one Year.
>
> I still accept responsibility for your diagnosis of the pathetic level
> of mediocrity in the current Board, the above is just to set the records
> straight.
>
> Cheers.
>
> SF.
>
> On 23/11/2015 21:08, Badru Ntege wrote:
>
> Saul
>
> You obviously have a limited understanding of the history. Lusaka was my
>
> first board and the results being reported were for a budget I inherited.
> For decisions made by a previous board with the best of intentions.
>
> If you read clearly my emails which I'm sure you have not you will see
>
> that half if not the majority of your email with all due respect is
> baseless.
>
> I will thus not continue on personalisation since I do not recall any
>
> personalisation.  Please go back and read all the emails very slowly. I
> have utmost respect for the individuals but does not mean you cannot point
> out what is wrong.
>
> Your email is exactly the problem. Afrinic does not belong to any of us
>
> we will come and go and others will continue but when you think you cannot
> separate individual from the roles they do then we end up accepting
> everything for fear of hurting people's feelings.
>
> Just take your time and read all the emails please the comment.
>
> Badru Ntege
> CEO
> NFT Consult LtdWww.Nftconsult.com
>
> ?Vision without execution is hallucination.?
> ? Thomas A. Edison
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 23 Nov 2015, at 10:35 pm, Saul <saul at enetworks.co.za> <saul at enetworks.co.za> wrote:
>
> Badru, I can no longer refrain from commenting at your constant
>
> berating,
>
> non-constructive posts, waste of bandwidth, time and being critical of
>
> the
>
> board, community and its processes - something that you were in charge
>
> of
>
> until just short of a year ago and then still on the board until the
>
> last
>
> elections (6 months ago)- so this is something that you are very
> responsible for.
>
> You are constantly making accusations against members of the board in
>
> this
>
> public forum and with non-public knowledge and then plead NDA when asked
> for fact to backup your allegations.
>
> You are now alluding to your prowess at running a multi million dollar
> company, I refer you back to the Lusaka AGMM where AFRINIC, under your
> leadership ran at a loss and the financials were late. When questioned
> about what you were going to do to rectify the issue, the response was,
>
> we
>
> don't need to do anything different. Funny thing those financials have
> always been a sticky point recently...
>
> maybe where there is smoke there is fire, so let's stop this non-sense,
> we're IT people, like logs, facts don't lie, so lets get these current,
> correctly  audited financials and see what status AFRINIC has been left
> in.
>
> I am not interested in a slinging match, so lets keep the mails on this
> list factual and constructive
>
> Saul
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Badru Ntege [mailto:badru.ntege at nftconsult.com <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com>]
> Sent: 23 November 2015 05:01 PM
> To: Randy Bush <randy at psg.com> <randy at psg.com>
> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net> <community-discuss at afrinic.net>;
> AfriNIC Discuss <members-discuss at afrinic.net> <members-discuss at afrinic.net>
> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
> November 2015
>
>
> Hi Randy
>
>
>
>
>
> On 11/23/15, 5:17 PM, "Randy Bush" <randy at psg.com> <randy at psg.com> wrote:
>
>
> :-) its because the packets are moving fantastically well, need to
> get the layer 9 to the same level.
>
> never happen.  layer nine involves all us overevolved funny monkeys.
>
> but, as one of the folk who helped get into the current hole,
>
> Another valid purely subjective view.  One would have to understand all
> the dynamics but that would be very difficult in a world of limited
> transparency thus your subjective view is based on the pre-edited
> information that you have access to.
>
> So if one really understands the causes as opposed to gueses based on a
> particular agenda we could be having additive discussions.  My emails
>
> try
>
> to be additive but if you look at the responses from the executive they
> never dissapoint at dragging the dialogue down. They have earned a
>
> record
>
> for consistency.
>
>
> i am
> always interested in your constructive suggestions on how to get out.
>
> Thank you. Just like many others I have a vested interest in the good of
> the community and will try my best.
>
>
> i am not sure niggling about micro-timing of reports is attacking the
> roots of the problem.
>
> On the contrary it is the root of the problem. It all starts from the
>
> lack
>
> of order and dedication.  We leave in a world of last minute delivery.
>
> (on
>
> this one trust me I know.)  So we are ticking boxes without focusing on
> the core.
>
>
> otoh, i do look forward to a thorough audit, governance committee,
> etc.
>
> We all do.  I hope your patience has the resilience needed for the
>
> current
>
> modus operandus.
>
>
> i am patient and i trust the current
> executive.
>
> randy
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing listCommunity-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
> _______________________________________________
> Members-Discuss mailing listMembers-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
>
> _______________________________________________
> Members-Discuss mailing listMembers-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Members-Discuss mailing listMembers-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Members-Discuss mailing listMembers-Discuss at afrinic.nethttps://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
>
>
>
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From badru.ntege at nftconsult.com  Tue Nov 24 12:08:09 2015
From: badru.ntege at nftconsult.com (Badru Ntege)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 15:08:09 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
In-Reply-To: <56A17566-C189-492A-B11A-99A811F6D0DC@delong.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <3380710B-F06E-458F-AFA2-9D630C1A6194@nftconsult.com>
 <56A17566-C189-492A-B11A-99A811F6D0DC@delong.com>
Message-ID: <DDB99A59-FB85-4CED-A6E2-4BEE52F3E9B3@nftconsult.com>

Owen

I think Andrew did make his point very clear and as shocking as it maybe to you I think we had a fact based discussion and to me ended mutually.  Actually again to shock you I of all the dialogue I had on this list I think the one with Andrew was clear.  

What I do not understand is contributions like yours which look for what was not in the email.  I might not agree with Andrew most times but does not mean I cannot dialogue with him.  

Unless he asked you to help on the mail (which I doubt)  I do not understand why you then write on his behalf

Unfortunately its missguided souls like you that are part of our biggest problem.  One could even go as far as calling  the cancer.

Baffled ????????


On 11/23/15, 10:35 PM, "Owen DeLong" <owen at delong.com> wrote:


On Nov 23, 2015, at 03:26 , Badru Ntege <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com> wrote:

Andrew

Comments inline

On 11/23/15, 2:11 PM, "Andrew Alston" <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com> wrote:

Hi All,

Firstly, let me state my apologies for my silence of late, due to circumstances beyond my control I have been largely out of contact for the purposes of AfriNIC business for the better part of 2 months.  It is important to note that the terms of reference require that the audit committee act unanimously, and this could not happen over this period, hence certain delays, which again, I apologise for.

Could we be lead to assume that you do not have enough time to serve Afrinic.  We do totally understand that Afrinic is purely voluntary and if your primary assignments have become too demanding, mechanisms of relieving the workload do exist.  I?m sure chair is fully aware of these so we do not have to elaborate.

Badru,

It?s clear you can be led to assume whatever you wish and that you are clearly attempting to lead the community to assume facts not in evidence.

Even the most dedicated volunteers sometimes have things come up which temporarily pull them away from their volunteer duties. Andrew has expressed this in a manner that implies the distraction was temporary in nature and I see no reason to believe otherwise. I?m quite certain that if Andrew faced any sort of permanent inability to fulfill his obligations, he would act accordingly without requiring any form of encouragement from you.



Please rest assured that a lot of work has gone in since Tunis into ensuring that the information that is provided to the community is accurate and a fair representation.  I would rather such information was provided slightly delayed than contained inaccuracies or disputed pointed, and as a result, the work has taken a significant amount of time, due to the care and thoroughness applied.

The above in a way is in contradiction to your pre-ceeding statement which referred to conflicting priorities.

No, it isn?t. Andrew stated that one of the contributing factors to the overall delay has been his inability to work on the matter.

This paragraph seems to me to state that there are other factors as well, including the need for extensive work presumably performed by other members of the committee. Further, Andrew stated that his inability to work on the matter only covers the last 2 months (September and October). Since the Tunis meeting was early in June, that leaves several other months during which even he could have been doing significant work on this.

You seem so determined to find fault with the current board and Andrew in particular that you have failed to apply even the most basic of logic and mathematics to your analysis of Andrew?s message.



Lastly, Badru, you make reference to 3 days instead of 14 days.  I point out that the notice of the SGMM was published on the 20th of November 2014, for an SGMM that is scheduled for the 3rd of December.  By my calculations, 3 days would mean that the SGMM is on the 23rd of November, so you seem to have misplaced 11 days.  Hence, while you refer to a section in the bylaws that references ANNUAL general meetings, rather that SPECIAL general meetings, if you choose to conflate the two (and there is reason within the companies act why you should not do that), even under these circumstances the timelines have been met.

My reference to the 3 days was to the information provided by Chair in the earlier email.  However once again this is subjective based on ones paradigm.

Then your reference is misplaced because as Andrew pointed out, you referenced a section of the bylaws that applies to the notice to be given of Annual General Member Meetings. If you have a correct reference in the bylaws that requires 14 days notice for the information from the chair in the earlier email, please provide a corrected reference point in the bylaws. Otherwise, please accept that you were mistaken and let?s all move on from this point.

Owen


_______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss 

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From badru.ntege at nftconsult.com  Tue Nov 24 12:11:31 2015
From: badru.ntege at nftconsult.com (Badru Ntege)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 15:11:31 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
Message-ID: <30318403-7535-479D-8B9F-E8A5B2E15E05@nftconsult.com>

Saul 

Your email does not deserve a detail response.  

You need to very slowly read all the emails
Take your time to understand what the discussion is 
And then respond.

Ps please take care not to hurt yourself as you read the emails.

Regards





On 11/23/15, 10:35 PM, "Saul" <saul at enetworks.co.za> wrote:

>Badru, I can no longer refrain from commenting at your constant berating,
>non-constructive posts, waste of bandwidth, time and being critical of the
>board, community and its processes - something that you were in charge of
>until just short of a year ago and then still on the board until the last
>elections (6 months ago)- so this is something that you are very
>responsible for. 
>
>You are constantly making accusations against members of the board in this
>public forum and with non-public knowledge and then plead NDA when asked
>for fact to backup your allegations.
>
>You are now alluding to your prowess at running a multi million dollar
>company, I refer you back to the Lusaka AGMM where AFRINIC, under your
>leadership ran at a loss and the financials were late. When questioned
>about what you were going to do to rectify the issue, the response was, we
>don't need to do anything different. Funny thing those financials have
>always been a sticky point recently... 
>
>maybe where there is smoke there is fire, so let's stop this non-sense,
>we're IT people, like logs, facts don't lie, so lets get these current,
>correctly  audited financials and see what status AFRINIC has been left
>in.
>
>I am not interested in a slinging match, so lets keep the mails on this
>list factual and constructive
>
>Saul
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Badru Ntege [mailto:badru.ntege at nftconsult.com] 
>Sent: 23 November 2015 05:01 PM
>To: Randy Bush <randy at psg.com>
>Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>;
>AfriNIC Discuss <members-discuss at afrinic.net>
>Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
>November 2015
>
>
>Hi Randy
>
>
>
>
>
>On 11/23/15, 5:17 PM, "Randy Bush" <randy at psg.com> wrote:
>
>>> :-) its because the packets are moving fantastically well, need to 
>>> get the layer 9 to the same level.
>>
>>never happen.  layer nine involves all us overevolved funny monkeys.
>>
>>but, as one of the folk who helped get into the current hole,
>
>Another valid purely subjective view.  One would have to understand all
>the dynamics but that would be very difficult in a world of limited
>transparency thus your subjective view is based on the pre-edited
>information that you have access to.
>
>So if one really understands the causes as opposed to gueses based on a
>particular agenda we could be having additive discussions.  My emails try
>to be additive but if you look at the responses from the executive they
>never dissapoint at dragging the dialogue down. They have earned a record
>for consistency.
>
>> i am
>>always interested in your constructive suggestions on how to get out.
>
>Thank you. Just like many others I have a vested interest in the good of
>the community and will try my best.
>
>>i am not sure niggling about micro-timing of reports is attacking the 
>>roots of the problem.
>
>On the contrary it is the root of the problem. It all starts from the lack
>of order and dedication.  We leave in a world of last minute delivery. (on
>this one trust me I know.)  So we are ticking boxes without focusing on
>the core.
>
>> otoh, i do look forward to a thorough audit, governance committee, 
>>etc.
>
>We all do.  I hope your patience has the resilience needed for the current
>modus operandus. 
>
>>i am patient and i trust the current
>>executive.
>>
>>randy
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Community-Discuss mailing list
>Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>_______________________________________________
>Community-Discuss mailing list
>Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss




From randy at psg.com  Tue Nov 24 12:27:38 2015
From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 13:27:38 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
	November 2015
In-Reply-To: <30318403-7535-479D-8B9F-E8A5B2E15E05@nftconsult.com>
References: <30318403-7535-479D-8B9F-E8A5B2E15E05@nftconsult.com>
Message-ID: <m2r3jfoa4l.wl%randy@psg.com>

> Your email does not deserve a detail response.  
> 
> You need to very slowly read all the emails
> Take your time to understand what the discussion is 
> And then respond.
> 
> Ps please take care not to hurt yourself as you read the emails.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem



From quaynor at ghana.com  Tue Nov 24 12:54:08 2015
From: quaynor at ghana.com (Nii Narku Quaynor)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 12:54:08 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Let's Move Forward (Was Re: [members-discuss]
	AFRINIC Update 23rd November 2015)
In-Reply-To: <5654287D.70201@afrinic.net>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <m28u5oub3z.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <F4948B35-06CA-49C7-84CF-38F2970BD5E4@nftconsult.com>
 <m2wpt8ssul.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <D2E99FCB-7468-413E-AC51-33E95A009075@nftconsult.com>
 <d96546cb.000009d8.000001d0@ws13.eNetworks.local>
 <02713345-E9CE-496F-8F38-C45A1D4C2D2F@gmail.com>
 <5653921F.6010004@afrinic.net>
 <CAN7nxtMJ+39AsN+pdonninDX24QdQRg=zo_bw2BN=aa8F680vQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <5654287D.70201@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <5F41B0DF-64E5-47AF-AB58-0D3420F6FD54@ghana.com>

Hello members and community,

A lot has been said around the discussions on the upcoming SGMM and some do not honour our common organisation 

Please let us take steps to resolve the issues, while moving forward in a positive and strong format. The world is watching and we have no right to fail

2005-2015, AFRINIC is celebrating 10 years anniversary, a long journey. It is time for us to show goodwill and good plans for a united future

Let's move forward constructively 

Best wishes in PN
Nii

> On Nov 24, 2015, at 09:06, Sunday Folayan <sunday.folayan at afrinic.net> wrote:
> 
> Dear Christian,
> 
> Please do not miss the point being made.
> 
> I took over as Chair in November 2014. That is just 2 months to the end of 2014. I am responsible for the 2014 Audited Accounts no passing the buck. I took the flak and heat in Tunis, and with dignity, without reminding anyone that I was just chair for 2 months. Does that make sense now?
> 
> Rewind way back to 2012. Badru took over as Chair in August 2012. He should take responsibility for 2012 and 2013, and not pass it. 
> 
> I will ignore the other usual innuendoes regarding Board vs Community.
> 
> Cheers.
> 
> Sunday.
> 
>> On 24/11/2015 01:29, Bope Domilongo Christian wrote:
>> Dear all,
>> 
>> I honestly think we should let the debate be open and transparent for the
>> interest and the development of the organization. Furthermore I do not
>> think the Board should not target single member of the community related to
>> his view and opinion which could be different.
>> 
>> I have seen a lot of contribution from different members of communities
>> which I really appreciate in order to improve what need to be improve
>> "there will be always room for improvement. I do thing the Board should
>> accept others view and critics not targeting specific member.
>> 
>> Finally I will advocate a respectful  open debate professional.
>> 
>> Speaking on my own capacity
>> 
>> Regards
>> On 24 Nov 2015 6:26 am, "Sunday Folayan" <sunday.folayan at afrinic.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> Dear Badru,
>>> 
>>> AFRINIC History is not hidden and should not be craftily re-written in
>>> emails such as these.
>>> 
>>> You were elected to the Board in May 2012 during AFRINIC-16 at Banjul.
>>> http://afrinic.net/en/library/news/735-afrinic-elects-new-board-members
>>> 
>>> You were elected Chair of the Board in August 2012.
>>> http://afrinic.net/en/library/news/307-main-news-page
>>> 
>>> The Board met f2f under your watch at AFRINIC-17 in November 2012 in
>>> Khartoum, Sudan. You did not inherit any budget.
>>> https://www.afrinic.net/images/doc/board_resolutions_2013.pdf
>>> 
>>> The AGMM in Lusaka was during AFRINIC-18 in June 2013. You had chaired
>>> the Board for a whole year.
>>> https://www.afrinic.net/images/images/agmm_nom_210613_2.pdf  The second
>>> to the last paragraph on page 3 should remind you.
>>> 
>>> The AGMM in Djibouti at AfriNIC-20 in June 2014 was your second year
>>> running as Chair.
>>> 
>>> You handed over to me during AfriNIC-21 at Mauritius in November 2014.
>>> 
>>> You left the Board in June 2015 at AfriNIC-22 in Tunis, less that 6
>>> months ago, after being Chair for over Two years and three months.
>>> 
>>> I have now Chaired the Board for exactly one Year.
>>> 
>>> I still accept responsibility for your diagnosis of the pathetic level
>>> of mediocrity in the current Board, the above is just to set the records
>>> straight.
>>> 
>>> Cheers.
>>> 
>>> SF.
>>> 
>>> On 23/11/2015 21:08, Badru Ntege wrote:
>>>> Saul
>>>> 
>>>> You obviously have a limited understanding of the history. Lusaka was my
>>> first board and the results being reported were for a budget I inherited..
>>> For decisions made by a previous board with the best of intentions.
>>>> If you read clearly my emails which I'm sure you have not you will see
>>> that half if not the majority of your email with all due respect is
>>> baseless.
>>>> I will thus not continue on personalisation since I do not recall any
>>> personalisation.  Please go back and read all the emails very slowly. I
>>> have utmost respect for the individuals but does not mean you cannot point
>>> out what is wrong.
>>>> Your email is exactly the problem. Afrinic does not belong to any of us
>>> we will come and go and others will continue but when you think you cannot
>>> separate individual from the roles they do then we end up accepting
>>> everything for fear of hurting people's feelings.
>>>> Just take your time and read all the emails please the comment.
>>>> 
>>>> Badru Ntege
>>>> CEO
>>>> NFT Consult Ltd
>>>> Www.Nftconsult.com
>>>> 
>>>> ?Vision without execution is hallucination.?
>>>> ? Thomas A. Edison
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 23 Nov 2015, at 10:35 pm, Saul <saul at enetworks.co.za> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Badru, I can no longer refrain from commenting at your constant
>>> berating,
>>>>> non-constructive posts, waste of bandwidth, time and being critical of
>>> the
>>>>> board, community and its processes - something that you were in charge
>>> of
>>>>> until just short of a year ago and then still on the board until the
>>> last
>>>>> elections (6 months ago)- so this is something that you are very
>>>>> responsible for.
>>>>> 
>>>>> You are constantly making accusations against members of the board in
>>> this
>>>>> public forum and with non-public knowledge and then plead NDA when asked
>>>>> for fact to backup your allegations.
>>>>> 
>>>>> You are now alluding to your prowess at running a multi million dollar
>>>>> company, I refer you back to the Lusaka AGMM where AFRINIC, under your
>>>>> leadership ran at a loss and the financials were late. When questioned
>>>>> about what you were going to do to rectify the issue, the response was,
>>> we
>>>>> don't need to do anything different. Funny thing those financials have
>>>>> always been a sticky point recently...
>>>>> 
>>>>> maybe where there is smoke there is fire, so let's stop this non-sense,
>>>>> we're IT people, like logs, facts don't lie, so lets get these current,
>>>>> correctly  audited financials and see what status AFRINIC has been left
>>>>> in.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I am not interested in a slinging match, so lets keep the mails on this
>>>>> list factual and constructive
>>>>> 
>>>>> Saul
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: Badru Ntege [mailto:badru.ntege at nftconsult.com]
>>>>> Sent: 23 November 2015 05:01 PM
>>>>> To: Randy Bush <randy at psg.com>
>>>>> Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>;
>>>>> AfriNIC Discuss <members-discuss at afrinic.net>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
>>>>> November 2015
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hi Randy
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 11/23/15, 5:17 PM, "Randy Bush" <randy at psg.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> :-) its because the packets are moving fantastically well, need to
>>>>>>> get the layer 9 to the same level.
>>>>>> never happen.  layer nine involves all us overevolved funny monkeys.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> but, as one of the folk who helped get into the current hole,
>>>>> Another valid purely subjective view.  One would have to understand all
>>>>> the dynamics but that would be very difficult in a world of limited
>>>>> transparency thus your subjective view is based on the pre-edited
>>>>> information that you have access to.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So if one really understands the causes as opposed to gueses based on a
>>>>> particular agenda we could be having additive discussions.  My emails
>>> try
>>>>> to be additive but if you look at the responses from the executive they
>>>>> never dissapoint at dragging the dialogue down. They have earned a
>>> record
>>>>> for consistency.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> i am
>>>>>> always interested in your constructive suggestions on how to get out.
>>>>> Thank you. Just like many others I have a vested interest in the good of
>>>>> the community and will try my best.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> i am not sure niggling about micro-timing of reports is attacking the
>>>>>> roots of the problem.
>>>>> On the contrary it is the root of the problem. It all starts from the
>>> lack
>>>>> of order and dedication.  We leave in a world of last minute delivery.
>>> (on
>>>>> this one trust me I know.)  So we are ticking boxes without focusing on
>>>>> the core.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> otoh, i do look forward to a thorough audit, governance committee,
>>>>>> etc.
>>>>> We all do.  I hope your patience has the resilience needed for the
>>> current
>>>>> modus operandus.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> i am patient and i trust the current
>>>>>> executive.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> randy
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>>>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>>>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Members-Discuss mailing list
>>>>> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net
>>>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Members-Discuss mailing list
>>>> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net
>>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Members-Discuss mailing list
>>> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net
>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Members-Discuss mailing list
>> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Members-Discuss mailing list
> Members-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
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From randy at psg.com  Tue Nov 24 13:03:06 2015
From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 14:03:06 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
	November 2015
In-Reply-To: <DDB99A59-FB85-4CED-A6E2-4BEE52F3E9B3@nftconsult.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <3380710B-F06E-458F-AFA2-9D630C1A6194@nftconsult.com>
 <56A17566-C189-492A-B11A-99A811F6D0DC@delong.com>
 <DDB99A59-FB85-4CED-A6E2-4BEE52F3E9B3@nftconsult.com>
Message-ID: <m2lh9no8hh.wl%randy@psg.com>

> Unfortunately its missguided souls like you that are part of our
> biggest problem.  One could even go as far as calling the cancer.

ad hominem



From badru.ntege at nftconsult.com  Tue Nov 24 14:06:58 2015
From: badru.ntege at nftconsult.com (Badru Ntege)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 17:06:58 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
In-Reply-To: <m2r3jfoa4l.wl%randy@psg.com>
References: <30318403-7535-479D-8B9F-E8A5B2E15E05@nftconsult.com>
 <m2r3jfoa4l.wl%randy@psg.com>
Message-ID: <20F903F8-937D-4957-94DA-4D54DE8E6974@nftconsult.com>


Subjectivity at play?.





On 11/24/15, 3:27 PM, "Randy Bush" <randy at psg.com> wrote:

>> Your email does not deserve a detail response.  
>> 
>> You need to very slowly read all the emails
>> Take your time to understand what the discussion is 
>> And then respond.
>> 
>> Ps please take care not to hurt yourself as you read the emails.
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Ad hominem reasoning is not always fallacious, for example, when it relates to the credibility of statements of fact or when used in certain kinds of moral and practical reasoning 

<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Practical_reasoning>.[3] <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem#cite_note-Taylor-3>


Thanks for the reference.

>




From sander at steffann.nl  Tue Nov 24 14:51:33 2015
From: sander at steffann.nl (Sander Steffann)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 15:51:33 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
	November 2015
In-Reply-To: <m2lh9no8hh.wl%randy@psg.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <3380710B-F06E-458F-AFA2-9D630C1A6194@nftconsult.com>
 <56A17566-C189-492A-B11A-99A811F6D0DC@delong.com>
 <DDB99A59-FB85-4CED-A6E2-4BEE52F3E9B3@nftconsult.com>
 <m2lh9no8hh.wl%randy@psg.com>
Message-ID: <70E2B08F-0C9E-4E0F-8EA8-E155EB8CDF4E@steffann.nl>

> Op 24 nov. 2015, om 14:03 heeft Randy Bush <randy at psg.com> het volgende geschreven:
> 
>> Unfortunately its missguided souls like you that are part of our
>> biggest problem.  One could even go as far as calling the cancer.
> 
> ad hominem

Even worse: comparing a participant on this mailing list to a horrible disease, to which many of us have lost/are losing dear friends. Disgusting.




From randy at psg.com  Tue Nov 24 15:02:26 2015
From: randy at psg.com (Randy Bush)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 16:02:26 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
	November 2015
In-Reply-To: <20F903F8-937D-4957-94DA-4D54DE8E6974@nftconsult.com>
References: <30318403-7535-479D-8B9F-E8A5B2E15E05@nftconsult.com>
 <m2r3jfoa4l.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <20F903F8-937D-4957-94DA-4D54DE8E6974@nftconsult.com>
Message-ID: <m2bnajo2yl.wl%randy@psg.com>

> Subjectivity at play?.

no.  

>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Practical_reasoning>.

ad hominem is attacking the person, not the idea.  see the following
words

>>> Your email does not deserve a detail response.  
>>> 
>>> You need to very slowly read all the emails
>>> Take your time to understand what the discussion is 
>>> And then respond.
>>> 
>>> Ps please take care not to hurt yourself as you read the emails.

one good trick is to try to avoid or reduce the use of the word 'you'

randy



From badru.ntege at nftconsult.com  Tue Nov 24 15:16:49 2015
From: badru.ntege at nftconsult.com (Badru Ntege)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 18:16:49 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
In-Reply-To: <m2bnajo2yl.wl%randy@psg.com>
References: <30318403-7535-479D-8B9F-E8A5B2E15E05@nftconsult.com>
 <m2r3jfoa4l.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <20F903F8-937D-4957-94DA-4D54DE8E6974@nftconsult.com>
 <m2bnajo2yl.wl%randy@psg.com>
Message-ID: <2D19B411-F7B6-4E9A-9B0C-85B1AD7AF6F8@nftconsult.com>

Randy 

Not sure what your end in mind is but I officially note that moving forward 
I will not respond to any of your emails in this particular thread as I do not 
believe they are adding any value to the growth of AFRINIC.

Saying the above with all due respect.

Regards





On 11/24/15, 6:02 PM, "Randy Bush" <randy at psg.com> wrote:

>> Subjectivity at play?.
>
>no.  
>
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Practical_reasoning>.
>
>ad hominem is attacking the person, not the idea.  see the following
>words
>
>>>> Your email does not deserve a detail response.  
>>>> 
>>>> You need to very slowly read all the emails
>>>> Take your time to understand what the discussion is 
>>>> And then respond.
>>>> 
>>>> Ps please take care not to hurt yourself as you read the emails.
>
>one good trick is to try to avoid or reduce the use of the word 'you'
>
>randy




From Kris.Senanu at accesskenya.com  Tue Nov 24 15:27:56 2015
From: Kris.Senanu at accesskenya.com (Kris Senanu)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 15:27:56 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update
	23rd	November 2015
In-Reply-To: <70E2B08F-0C9E-4E0F-8EA8-E155EB8CDF4E@steffann.nl>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <3380710B-F06E-458F-AFA2-9D630C1A6194@nftconsult.com>
 <56A17566-C189-492A-B11A-99A811F6D0DC@delong.com>
 <DDB99A59-FB85-4CED-A6E2-4BEE52F3E9B3@nftconsult.com>
 <m2lh9no8hh.wl%randy@psg.com>
 <70E2B08F-0C9E-4E0F-8EA8-E155EB8CDF4E@steffann.nl>
Message-ID: <FE7D76B003C9694780362714FE0F84661B7E36E0@zabrysvisexmbx4.af.didata.local>

Hi All,





I am normally very quiet on this forum however from what I have seen today I would like to make a few remarks.



I believe as a professional group we should all endeavor to exercise decorum on this platform it is essential if we are to work together towards common goals.



I would also like to see members  spend more time, energy and effort giving support to the current board and management as we all want to succeed as a team.



In future for some of the more contentious issues if members want to make submissions to the board off-list I think that will be less confrontational and antagonizing.



Having said that I believe the facts are the facts and we all know the facts about why we are in our current state of financial affairs.



The propagators of poor financial management know themselves and should be ashamed of commenting on this platform.



Regards.







Kris Senanu |  Tespok Chairman





-----Original Message-----
From: Sander Steffann [mailto:sander at steffann.nl]
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2015 5:52 PM
To: Randy Bush
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC; AfriNIC Discuss
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd November 2015



> Op 24 nov. 2015, om 14:03 heeft Randy Bush <randy at psg.com<mailto:randy at psg.com>> het volgende geschreven:

>

>> Unfortunately its missguided souls like you that are part of our

>> biggest problem.  One could even go as far as calling the cancer.

>

> ad hominem



Even worse: comparing a participant on this mailing list to a horrible disease, to which many of us have lost/are losing dear friends. Disgusting.





_______________________________________________

Community-Discuss mailing list

Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net>

https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
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From noah at neo.co.tz  Tue Nov 24 16:37:19 2015
From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 19:37:19 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
In-Reply-To: <5652EF0A.3050206@afrinic.net>
References: <5652C974.8010304@afrinic.net>
 <CAD_dc6i0XHNOHvXMTnvMrJMK_vaOi=puMDPCgHbKm=kxHOC5Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5652EF0A.3050206@afrinic.net>
Message-ID: <CAEqgTWYOOEVhcmPjXD4J2k=yLCF0ZD=cEJBkm8OdanFHhxg4ZA@mail.gmail.com>

On 23 Nov 2015 13:49, "Sunday Folayan" <sunday.folayan at afrinic.net> wrote:
>
> Dear Mr Ojedeji,
>
> Please see my response inset:
>
>
> On 23/11/2015 10:15, Seun Ojedeji wrote:
>>
>> Dear Chair,
>>
>> Thanks for your mail, from your information it means the audit report
will
>> be available tomorrow (the 24th) once the board concludes its meeting.
>
>
> Yes.
>

We hope the board had a fruitful meeting and we look forward to the audit
report now.

Noah
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From owen at delong.com  Tue Nov 24 19:09:51 2015
From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 11:09:51 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] Is this on the correct mailing list? (was
	Re: Incorrect Public Listing of Members' Standing)
In-Reply-To: <5654254C.5000005@gmail.com>
References: <56532BF0.90505@forum.org.ng>
 <eb7eaec4.000009d8.000001fb@ws13.eNetworks.local>
 <5654254C.5000005@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6DC75455-FD12-4BDD-A0C5-92DA8378D45F@delong.com>

Is more discussion really necessary at this point?

The issue relates to a software error which has been identified and will be corrected.

What more remains to be said on the subject?

This isn?t an attempt to stifle discussion if people feel there is something to discuss. Just an honest question if such a thing remains.

Owen

> On Nov 24, 2015, at 00:52 , Mike Silber <silber.mike at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Colleagues
> 
> Valid points all. However I would think this is more appropriately addressed on the members mailing list and not the community mailing list?
> 
> However, if the distinction is not relevant (and most people behave that way, or copy both lists), should we not just collapse the two lists into one?
> 
> Regards
> 
> Mike
> 
> On 24/11/2015 10:21, Saul wrote:
>> Wow, that is very scary.
>> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss




From owen at delong.com  Tue Nov 24 19:35:33 2015
From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 11:35:33 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
	November 2015
In-Reply-To: <DDB99A59-FB85-4CED-A6E2-4BEE52F3E9B3@nftconsult.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <3380710B-F06E-458F-AFA2-9D630C1A6194@nftconsult.com>
 <56A17566-C189-492A-B11A-99A811F6D0DC@delong.com>
 <DDB99A59-FB85-4CED-A6E2-4BEE52F3E9B3@nftconsult.com>
Message-ID: <751F4BC0-5657-4814-8405-2C15D2BCF73A@delong.com>


> On Nov 24, 2015, at 04:08 , Badru Ntege <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com> wrote:
> 
> Owen
> 
> I think Andrew did make his point very clear and as shocking as it maybe to you I think we had a fact based discussion and to me ended mutually.  Actually again to shock you I of all the dialogue I had on this list I think the one with Andrew was clear.  
> 
> What I do not understand is contributions like yours which look for what was not in the email.  I might not agree with Andrew most times but does not mean I cannot dialogue with him.  

You are the one incorporating things not in the email. I never said you could not dialogue with Andrew and I would never presume to speak for him.

I spoke only to what I saw as the facts of the matter and of my opinion as a concerned member of the community.

> 
> Unless he asked you to help on the mail (which I doubt)  I do not understand why you then write on his behalf

Again, I do not believe I did so. I wrote on my behalf as a concerned member of the community who is tired of your repetitive attempts to rewrite history to your own liking.

> Unfortunately its missguided souls like you that are part of our biggest problem.  One could even go as far as calling  the cancer.

An interesting and telling comment.

I wonder, could you attack my statements on their merit rather than resorting to ad hominem?

Owen

> 
> Baffled ????????
> 
> 
> On 11/23/15, 10:35 PM, "Owen DeLong" <owen at delong.com <mailto:owen at delong.com>> wrote:
> 
>> 
>>> On Nov 23, 2015, at 03:26 , Badru Ntege <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com <mailto:badru.ntege at nftconsult.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Andrew
>>> 
>>> Comments inline
>>> 
>>> On 11/23/15, 2:11 PM, "Andrew Alston" <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com <mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi All,
>>>> 
>>>> Firstly, let me state my apologies for my silence of late, due to circumstances beyond my control I have been largely out of contact for the purposes of AfriNIC business for the better part of 2 months.  It is important to note that the terms of reference require that the audit committee act unanimously, and this could not happen over this period, hence certain delays, which again, I apologise for.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Could we be lead to assume that you do not have enough time to serve Afrinic.  We do totally understand that Afrinic is purely voluntary and if your primary assignments have become too demanding, mechanisms of relieving the workload do exist.  I?m sure chair is fully aware of these so we do not have to elaborate.
>> 
>> Badru,
>> 
>> It?s clear you can be led to assume whatever you wish and that you are clearly attempting to lead the community to assume facts not in evidence.
>> 
>> Even the most dedicated volunteers sometimes have things come up which temporarily pull them away from their volunteer duties. Andrew has expressed this in a manner that implies the distraction was temporary in nature and I see no reason to believe otherwise. I?m quite certain that if Andrew faced any sort of permanent inability to fulfill his obligations, he would act accordingly without requiring any form of encouragement from you.
>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Please rest assured that a lot of work has gone in since Tunis into ensuring that the information that is provided to the community is accurate and a fair representation.  I would rather such information was provided slightly delayed than contained inaccuracies or disputed pointed, and as a result, the work has taken a significant amount of time, due to the care and thoroughness applied.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The above in a way is in contradiction to your pre-ceeding statement which referred to conflicting priorities.
>> 
>> No, it isn?t. Andrew stated that one of the contributing factors to the overall delay has been his inability to work on the matter.
>> 
>> This paragraph seems to me to state that there are other factors as well, including the need for extensive work presumably performed by other members of the committee. Further, Andrew stated that his inability to work on the matter only covers the last 2 months (September and October). Since the Tunis meeting was early in June, that leaves several other months during which even he could have been doing significant work on this.
>> 
>> You seem so determined to find fault with the current board and Andrew in particular that you have failed to apply even the most basic of logic and mathematics to your analysis of Andrew?s message.
>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Lastly, Badru, you make reference to 3 days instead of 14 days.  I point out that the notice of the SGMM was published on the 20th of November 2014, for an SGMM that is scheduled for the 3rd of December.  By my calculations, 3 days would mean that the SGMM is on the 23rd of November, so you seem to have misplaced 11 days.  Hence, while you refer to a section in the bylaws that references ANNUAL general meetings, rather that SPECIAL general meetings, if you choose to conflate the two (and there is reason within the companies act why you should not do that), even under these circumstances the timelines have been met.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> My reference to the 3 days was to the information provided by Chair in the earlier email.  However once again this is subjective based on ones paradigm.
>> 
>> Then your reference is misplaced because as Andrew pointed out, you referenced a section of the bylaws that applies to the notice to be given of Annual General Member Meetings. If you have a correct reference in the bylaws that requires 14 days notice for the information from the chair in the earlier email, please provide a corrected reference point in the bylaws. Otherwise, please accept that you were mistaken and let?s all move on from this point.
>> 
>> Owen
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net <mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss <https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss>_______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

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From amelnaud at gmail.com  Tue Nov 24 19:45:31 2015
From: amelnaud at gmail.com (Arnaud AMELINA)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 19:45:31 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
In-Reply-To: <CAEqgTWYOOEVhcmPjXD4J2k=yLCF0ZD=cEJBkm8OdanFHhxg4ZA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <5652C974.8010304@afrinic.net>
 <CAD_dc6i0XHNOHvXMTnvMrJMK_vaOi=puMDPCgHbKm=kxHOC5Mw@mail.gmail.com>
 <5652EF0A.3050206@afrinic.net>
 <CAEqgTWYOOEVhcmPjXD4J2k=yLCF0ZD=cEJBkm8OdanFHhxg4ZA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGDMR_f1a9OtZfKHum3Wx=m2H71dKxACMLy+juv_6TZzpbpqyg@mail.gmail.com>

English :

Hello everyone,
I guess that like me many members of the community have closely followed
with, passion, admiration or disdain the latest conversations on the
mailing list of the community. Much has been said, some and others have emptied
their bag. Now it is time to move forward.

Wisdom Spoken, Dr Nii Grand thank you for your wise contribution. I'm sure the
members of the Board have taken act of the interventions of each other. And
they will take heed for better harmony in our community to this end I would
like to share with you an interesting paper written by a distinguished figure
in our community and finds its place fully in recent discussions.

Here is the link :
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/top-down-ou-bottom-up-lequel-fonctionne-le-mieux-pour-alain-aina?trk=hb_ntf_MEGAPHONE_ARTICLE_POST

article follows:

Fran?ais

Bonjour ? Tous,
Je suppose que comme moi beaucoup de membres de la communaut? ont suivi
avec attention, passion, admiration ou d?dain les derni?res conversations
sur la liste de diffusion de la communaut?.  Beaucoup a ?t? dit, les uns et
les autres ont vid? leur sac. maintenant il est temps d'aller de l'avant.

La sagesse ? Parl?, Grand merci Dr Nii, pour votre sage contribution. Je
suis sur que les membres du conseil d'administration ont pris act des
interventions des uns et des autres. Et qu'ils en tiendront compte pour une
meilleur harmonie dans notre communaut?, ? cet effet je voudrais partager
avec vous un int?resant article  ecrit par un ?minent personnage de notre
communaut? et qui trouve pleinement sa place  dans les derni?res
discussions.

Voici le lien :
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/top-down-ou-bottom-up-lequel-fonctionne-le-mieux-pour-alain-aina?trk=hb_ntf_MEGAPHONE_ARTICLE_POST

l'article suit :


?Top-down? ou ?Bottom-up?, Lequel fonctionne le mieux pour quel ?cosyst?me?
[image: ?Top-down? ou ?Bottom-up?, Lequel fonctionne le mieux pour quel
?cosyst?me?]
[image: Alain Aina]
<https://www.linkedin.com/pub/alain-aina/6/26/106?trk=pulse-det-athr_prof-art_hdr>
Alain Aina
<https://www.linkedin.com/pub/alain-aina/6/26/106?trk=pulse-det-athr_prof-art_hdr>

DIRECTOR RESEARCH AND INNOVATION AT AFRINIC
24 nov. 2015

Dans la gouvernance des entreprises et syst?mes, deux approches sont
g?n?ralement invoqu?es. Le ?Top-down? et ?Bottom-up?:

Les mod?les *Top-down* de production et de gestion sont autoritaires: La
circulation de l'information et des processus d?bute et, est contr?l?e par
les niveaux sup?rieurs. Cela fonctionne mieux lorsque les produits et
services d'une entreprise sont semblables ? ceux qui ont r?ussi
pr?c?demment, lorsque les niveaux sup?rieurs poss?dent une expertise ou des
ressources que les niveaux inf?rieurs n?ont pas, et quand le co?t des
erreurs par le personnel inexp?riment? serait prohibitif. Les mod?les
? Top-down ? peuvent ?tre pr?visibles et efficaces, mais peuvent aussi
devenir enferm?s dans des habitudes d?su?tes.

Dans les mod?les ? *Bottom-up ?*, les informations et les processus
proviennent des niveaux inf?rieurs, g?n?ralement d'une mani?re continue et
ad hoc. ? Bottom-up ? peut bien fonctionner dans les industries qui sont
relativement nouvelles, dans des situations o? les niveaux inf?rieurs
poss?dent une expertise ou des ressources particuli?res, et lorsque le co?t
des erreurs n?est pas prohibitif. Les mod?les ? Bottom-up ? g?n?rent
souvent des alternatives que les mod?les ? Top-down ? ne peuvent pas
g?n?rer, mais peuvent aussi ?tres chaotiques et inefficaces.

Ces mod?les vont g?n?ralement avec les m?thodes de prise de d?cision de
type "*Commande*", "*Consensus*", ou "*Consultation*":

La prise de d?cision de type ? *Commande ?* est le ?Top-down ?
traditionnel, le mod?le de gestion hi?rarchique. Il est plus efficace
lorsque les processus ou les produits sont similaires aux pr?c?dents et
lorsque la direction a des connaissances et exp?riences que le personnel de
niveau inf?rieur n?a pas. Elle est efficace mais peut ?tre trop d?pendante
de vieilles habitudes pendant qu?une nouvelle approche est n?cessaire.
Aussi, dans une grande organisation, tr?s en couches, les d?cisions de
commandement de la direction peuvent para?tre sans importance aux employ?s
de niveau inf?rieur.
Les d?cisions de type* ? Consensus* ou* d?mocratique ?* sont prises par la
majorit? des personnes les plus directement touch?es par les d?cisions. Les
voix qui autrement ne seraient pas entendues sont autoris?es dans le
processus de prise de d?cision, mais il est peut ?tre inefficace,
cacophonique, et d?routant.

La prise de d?cision *consultative* est un m?lange des mod?les pr?c?dents.
C?est un mod?le bas? sur l'autorit?, dans lequel le responsable sollicite
les avis des personnes affect?es avant de prendre les d?cisions. Il est
appr?ci?, car autorisant diverses voix dans le processus, tout en donnant
des d?cisions d?finitives claires pour lesquelles une partie est
responsable.

Dans le contexte de la gouvernance de l'Internet en g?n?ral, et pour la
gestion des ressources de l'Internet, ? la fois nom et num?ro, et pour les
protocoles Internet, le mod?le de gouvernance adopt? est: "*Bottom-up*
et *Rough
Consensus*".


RFC7282 d?finit ? *Rough consensus ?* comme suit:
?Avoir un plein consensus ou l'unanimit? serait id?al, mais nous ne
l?exigeons pas: Exiger un plein consensus permet ? une seule personne
intransigeante qui dirait continuellement "Non!" de geler le processus.
Nous exigeons seulement un ? *Rough consensus ?:*

Si le responsable d'un groupe de travail d?termine qu'une question
technique soulev?e par un objecteur a ?t? vraiment examin?e par le groupe
de travail, et le groupe de travail a pris une d?cision ?clair?e, et que
l?on a r?pondu ? l'objection ou que cette derni?re n?est pas un grand
probl?me technique qui emp?che d'avancer, le responsable peut d?clarer
qu'il y a ? *Rough consensus ?* pour aller de l'avant, en d?pit de
l'objection ".

Lequel fonctionne le mieux?


Les deux mod?les ont des inconv?nients et des avantages comme d?crits
ci-dessus.
Le mod?le* ? Top-down* ? souffre ?galement de l?interpr?tation des messages
niveau par niveau et peut embrouiller ceux qui agissent, c?est-? dire
diluer les messages. Cependant dans les mod?les forts de fabrication ?
*Top-down ?*, l'autorit? peut ?tre donn?e aux responsables interm?diaires
pour arr?ter les productions s?ils voient des d?fauts (d?faillances).

? Bottom-up ? g?n?re souvent plus de conversations et alors apparait assez
bruyant. Le manque d'objectif commun peut conduire ? un d?faut de progr?s
parce que la communaut? ne se concentre pas sur le m?me probl?me. La
connaissance pour jouer est plus ?lev?e et la courbe d'apprentissage aussi
plus grande. Parce les d?cisions prennent du temps, les erreurs sont
souvent r?duites. Il tend ? ?tre bas? sur la m?ritocratie pas sur les rois.

 Dans le monde en d?veloppement o? les capacit?s sont limit?es, la masse
critique est absente et o? la connaissance et l'expertise peuvent ?tre au
? top ?, laiss?es inactives ou d?lib?r?ment d?truites, ? bottom-up  et
 rough consensus ? peut ?tre un challenge.

L'Afrique est par d?faut autocratique, aime le ? top-down ? et est
diversifi? culturellement et linguistiquement. Par exemple, certains
donnent leurs opinions dans tous fora et ? n?importe quelle condition,
tandis que d'autres prennent la parole ? la demande ou au besoin, surtout
en face-?-face et avec respect.


Avec ces diff?rences, les Africains m?lang?s dans le processus
? Bottom-up ? peut ?tre un cauchemar.


*L'Afrique a besoin de l?habilet? de dire ?Non? dans les couches
inf?rieures et au m?me moment d?avoir des ?missaires qui se d?placent ?
travers les couches. *
"Impliquer tout le monde, utiliser tous les talents pour construire
le? Rough consensus ? en prenant des d?cisions ?clair?es dans le contexte
local".

Un ? Bottom-up  et Rough consensus ? localis? qui sert le contexte local et
cr?e des opportunit?s pour le global, pendant que la communaut? revendique
la surveillance de composantes critiques de l'Internet.


2015-11-24 16:37 GMT+00:00 Noah <noah at neo.co.tz>:

>
> On 23 Nov 2015 13:49, "Sunday Folayan" <sunday.folayan at afrinic.net> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Mr Ojedeji,
> >
> > Please see my response inset:
> >
> >
> > On 23/11/2015 10:15, Seun Ojedeji wrote:
> >>
> >> Dear Chair,
> >>
> >> Thanks for your mail, from your information it means the audit report
> will
> >> be available tomorrow (the 24th) once the board concludes its meeting.
> >
> >
> > Yes.
> >
>
> We hope the board had a fruitful meeting and we look forward to the audit
> report now.
>
> Noah
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
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From noah at neo.co.tz  Tue Nov 24 19:49:31 2015
From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 22:49:31 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
In-Reply-To: <751F4BC0-5657-4814-8405-2C15D2BCF73A@delong.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <3380710B-F06E-458F-AFA2-9D630C1A6194@nftconsult.com>
 <56A17566-C189-492A-B11A-99A811F6D0DC@delong.com>
 <DDB99A59-FB85-4CED-A6E2-4BEE52F3E9B3@nftconsult.com>
 <751F4BC0-5657-4814-8405-2C15D2BCF73A@delong.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqgTWbYYQ=T6cxzFZBbeKTExTNoyuGWdBpvmjToqan2i7jE_Q@mail.gmail.com>

Some of you ought to remain either silent or as observers......

some of your comments clearly ever add value....

We are sick and tired....

Noah
On 24 Nov 2015 22:37, "Owen DeLong" <owen at delong.com> wrote:

>
> On Nov 24, 2015, at 04:08 , Badru Ntege <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com>
> wrote:
>
> Owen
>
> I think Andrew did make his point very clear and as shocking as it maybe
> to you I think we had a fact based discussion and to me ended mutually.
> Actually again to shock you I of all the dialogue I had on this list I
> think the one with Andrew was clear.
>
> What I do not understand is contributions like yours which look for what
> was not in the email.  I might not agree with Andrew most times but does
> not mean I cannot dialogue with him.
>
>
> You are the one incorporating things not in the email. I never said you
> could not dialogue with Andrew and I would never presume to speak for him.
>
> I spoke only to what I saw as the facts of the matter and of my opinion as
> a concerned member of the community.
>
>
> Unless he asked you to help on the mail (which I doubt)  I do not
> understand why you then write on his behalf
>
>
> Again, I do not believe I did so. I wrote on my behalf as a concerned
> member of the community who is tired of your repetitive attempts to rewrite
> history to your own liking.
>
> Unfortunately its missguided souls like you that are part of our biggest
> problem.  One could even go as far as calling  the cancer.
>
>
> An interesting and telling comment.
>
> I wonder, could you attack my statements on their merit rather than
> resorting to ad hominem?
>
> Owen
>
>
> Baffled ????????
>
>
> On 11/23/15, 10:35 PM, "Owen DeLong" <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Nov 23, 2015, at 03:26 , Badru Ntege <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com>
> wrote:
>
> Andrew
>
> Comments inline
>
> On 11/23/15, 2:11 PM, "Andrew Alston" <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> Firstly, let me state my apologies for my silence of late, due to
> circumstances beyond my control I have been largely out of contact for the
> purposes of AfriNIC business for the better part of 2 months.  It is
> important to note that the terms of reference require that the audit
> committee act unanimously, and this could not happen over this period,
> hence certain delays, which again, I apologise for.
>
>
> Could we be lead to assume that you do not have enough time to serve
> Afrinic.  We do totally understand that Afrinic is purely voluntary and if
> your primary assignments have become too demanding, mechanisms of relieving
> the workload do exist.  I?m sure chair is fully aware of these so we do not
> have to elaborate.
>
>
> Badru,
>
> It?s clear you can be led to assume whatever you wish and that you are
> clearly attempting to lead the community to assume facts not in evidence.
>
> Even the most dedicated volunteers sometimes have things come up which
> temporarily pull them away from their volunteer duties. Andrew has
> expressed this in a manner that implies the distraction was temporary in
> nature and I see no reason to believe otherwise. I?m quite certain that if
> Andrew faced any sort of permanent inability to fulfill his obligations, he
> would act accordingly without requiring any form of encouragement from you.
>
>
>
> Please rest assured that a lot of work has gone in since Tunis into
> ensuring that the information that is provided to the community is accurate
> and a fair representation.  I would rather such information was provided
> slightly delayed than contained inaccuracies or disputed pointed, and as a
> result, the work has taken a significant amount of time, due to the care
> and thoroughness applied.
>
>
> The above in a way is in contradiction to your pre-ceeding statement which
> referred to conflicting priorities.
>
>
> No, it isn?t. Andrew stated that one of the contributing factors to the
> overall delay has been his inability to work on the matter.
>
> This paragraph seems to me to state that there are other factors as well,
> including the need for extensive work presumably performed by other members
> of the committee. Further, Andrew stated that his inability to work on the
> matter only covers the last 2 months (September and October). Since the
> Tunis meeting was early in June, that leaves several other months during
> which even he could have been doing significant work on this.
>
> You seem so determined to find fault with the current board and Andrew in
> particular that you have failed to apply even the most basic of logic and
> mathematics to your analysis of Andrew?s message.
>
>
>
> Lastly, Badru, you make reference to 3 days instead of 14 days.  I point
> out that the notice of the SGMM was published on the 20th of November 2014,
> for an SGMM that is scheduled for the 3rd of December.  By my calculations,
> 3 days would mean that the SGMM is on the 23rd of November, so you seem to
> have misplaced 11 days.  Hence, while you refer to a section in the bylaws
> that references ANNUAL general meetings, rather that SPECIAL general
> meetings, if you choose to conflate the two (and there is reason within the
> companies act why you should not do that), even under these circumstances
> the timelines have been met.
>
>
> My reference to the 3 days was to the information provided by Chair in the
> earlier email.  However once again this is subjective based on ones
> paradigm.
>
>
> Then your reference is misplaced because as Andrew pointed out, you
> referenced a section of the bylaws that applies to the notice to be given
> of Annual General Member Meetings. If you have a correct reference in the
> bylaws that requires 14 days notice for the information from the chair in
> the earlier email, please provide a corrected reference point in the
> bylaws. Otherwise, please accept that you were mistaken and let?s all move
> on from this point.
>
> Owen
>
>
> _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing
> list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
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From amelnaud at gmail.com  Tue Nov 24 20:03:40 2015
From: amelnaud at gmail.com (Arnaud AMELINA)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 20:03:40 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
In-Reply-To: <CAEqgTWbYYQ=T6cxzFZBbeKTExTNoyuGWdBpvmjToqan2i7jE_Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <3380710B-F06E-458F-AFA2-9D630C1A6194@nftconsult.com>
 <56A17566-C189-492A-B11A-99A811F6D0DC@delong.com>
 <DDB99A59-FB85-4CED-A6E2-4BEE52F3E9B3@nftconsult.com>
 <751F4BC0-5657-4814-8405-2C15D2BCF73A@delong.com>
 <CAEqgTWbYYQ=T6cxzFZBbeKTExTNoyuGWdBpvmjToqan2i7jE_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGDMR_dsZ8eaovYZ-c3dM70CzDQFc+woytOEM-o_fqnQ0XCBOQ@mail.gmail.com>

Somme contribution will do !

Some queries were made in Tunis and some promises were obtained from the
Board and the CEO. have they been all held? Not sure. We go to a SGMM
without at time all documents and informations necessary for our good
participation.

We urge the Board, as some have claimed, would provide us with all necessary
documentation, on which discussions will be made at this SGMM.

Those are the debates on these documents that will move us forward.

--------------------

Certaines requ?tes ont ?t? faites ? Tunis et certaines promesses ont ?t?
obtenues du Board et du CEO. ont-elles ?t? toutes tenues ? Pas s?r. Nous
allons ? une SGMM sans avoir ?  temps tous les documents et informations
n?cessaires ? notre bonne participation.

Nous prions le Board, comme certains l'ont r?clam?, de bien vouloir nous
fournir toutes les documentations n?cessaires, sur lesquelles les
discussions seront faites lors de cet SGMM.

Ce sont les d?b?ts sur ces documents qui nous feront avancer.

Best regards

Arnaud.


2015-11-24 19:49 GMT+00:00 Noah <noah at neo.co.tz>:

> Some of you ought to remain either silent or as observers......
>
> some of your comments clearly ever add value....
>
> We are sick and tired....
>
> Noah
> On 24 Nov 2015 22:37, "Owen DeLong" <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Nov 24, 2015, at 04:08 , Badru Ntege <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Owen
>>
>> I think Andrew did make his point very clear and as shocking as it maybe
>> to you I think we had a fact based discussion and to me ended mutually.
>> Actually again to shock you I of all the dialogue I had on this list I
>> think the one with Andrew was clear.
>>
>> What I do not understand is contributions like yours which look for what
>> was not in the email.  I might not agree with Andrew most times but does
>> not mean I cannot dialogue with him.
>>
>>
>> You are the one incorporating things not in the email. I never said you
>> could not dialogue with Andrew and I would never presume to speak for him.
>>
>> I spoke only to what I saw as the facts of the matter and of my opinion
>> as a concerned member of the community.
>>
>>
>> Unless he asked you to help on the mail (which I doubt)  I do not
>> understand why you then write on his behalf
>>
>>
>> Again, I do not believe I did so. I wrote on my behalf as a concerned
>> member of the community who is tired of your repetitive attempts to rewrite
>> history to your own liking.
>>
>> Unfortunately its missguided souls like you that are part of our biggest
>> problem.  One could even go as far as calling  the cancer.
>>
>>
>> An interesting and telling comment.
>>
>> I wonder, could you attack my statements on their merit rather than
>> resorting to ad hominem?
>>
>> Owen
>>
>>
>> Baffled ????????
>>
>>
>> On 11/23/15, 10:35 PM, "Owen DeLong" <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Nov 23, 2015, at 03:26 , Badru Ntege <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> Comments inline
>>
>> On 11/23/15, 2:11 PM, "Andrew Alston" <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Firstly, let me state my apologies for my silence of late, due to
>> circumstances beyond my control I have been largely out of contact for the
>> purposes of AfriNIC business for the better part of 2 months.  It is
>> important to note that the terms of reference require that the audit
>> committee act unanimously, and this could not happen over this period,
>> hence certain delays, which again, I apologise for.
>>
>>
>> Could we be lead to assume that you do not have enough time to serve
>> Afrinic.  We do totally understand that Afrinic is purely voluntary and if
>> your primary assignments have become too demanding, mechanisms of relieving
>> the workload do exist.  I?m sure chair is fully aware of these so we do not
>> have to elaborate.
>>
>>
>> Badru,
>>
>> It?s clear you can be led to assume whatever you wish and that you are
>> clearly attempting to lead the community to assume facts not in evidence.
>>
>> Even the most dedicated volunteers sometimes have things come up which
>> temporarily pull them away from their volunteer duties. Andrew has
>> expressed this in a manner that implies the distraction was temporary in
>> nature and I see no reason to believe otherwise. I?m quite certain that if
>> Andrew faced any sort of permanent inability to fulfill his obligations, he
>> would act accordingly without requiring any form of encouragement from you.
>>
>>
>>
>> Please rest assured that a lot of work has gone in since Tunis into
>> ensuring that the information that is provided to the community is accurate
>> and a fair representation.  I would rather such information was provided
>> slightly delayed than contained inaccuracies or disputed pointed, and as a
>> result, the work has taken a significant amount of time, due to the care
>> and thoroughness applied.
>>
>>
>> The above in a way is in contradiction to your pre-ceeding statement
>> which referred to conflicting priorities.
>>
>>
>> No, it isn?t. Andrew stated that one of the contributing factors to the
>> overall delay has been his inability to work on the matter.
>>
>> This paragraph seems to me to state that there are other factors as well,
>> including the need for extensive work presumably performed by other members
>> of the committee. Further, Andrew stated that his inability to work on the
>> matter only covers the last 2 months (September and October). Since the
>> Tunis meeting was early in June, that leaves several other months during
>> which even he could have been doing significant work on this.
>>
>> You seem so determined to find fault with the current board and Andrew in
>> particular that you have failed to apply even the most basic of logic and
>> mathematics to your analysis of Andrew?s message.
>>
>>
>>
>> Lastly, Badru, you make reference to 3 days instead of 14 days.  I point
>> out that the notice of the SGMM was published on the 20th of November 2014,
>> for an SGMM that is scheduled for the 3rd of December.  By my calculations,
>> 3 days would mean that the SGMM is on the 23rd of November, so you seem to
>> have misplaced 11 days.  Hence, while you refer to a section in the bylaws
>> that references ANNUAL general meetings, rather that SPECIAL general
>> meetings, if you choose to conflate the two (and there is reason within the
>> companies act why you should not do that), even under these circumstances
>> the timelines have been met.
>>
>>
>> My reference to the 3 days was to the information provided by Chair in
>> the earlier email.  However once again this is subjective based on ones
>> paradigm.
>>
>>
>> Then your reference is misplaced because as Andrew pointed out, you
>> referenced a section of the bylaws that applies to the notice to be given
>> of Annual General Member Meetings. If you have a correct reference in the
>> bylaws that requires 14 days notice for the information from the chair in
>> the earlier email, please provide a corrected reference point in the
>> bylaws. Otherwise, please accept that you were mistaken and let?s all move
>> on from this point.
>>
>> Owen
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing
>> list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
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From amelnaud at gmail.com  Tue Nov 24 20:08:34 2015
From: amelnaud at gmail.com (Arnaud AMELINA)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 20:08:34 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
In-Reply-To: <CAEqgTWbYYQ=T6cxzFZBbeKTExTNoyuGWdBpvmjToqan2i7jE_Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <3380710B-F06E-458F-AFA2-9D630C1A6194@nftconsult.com>
 <56A17566-C189-492A-B11A-99A811F6D0DC@delong.com>
 <DDB99A59-FB85-4CED-A6E2-4BEE52F3E9B3@nftconsult.com>
 <751F4BC0-5657-4814-8405-2C15D2BCF73A@delong.com>
 <CAEqgTWbYYQ=T6cxzFZBbeKTExTNoyuGWdBpvmjToqan2i7jE_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGDMR_fhbFcBnff2i7sV1XL3beMH+twd2p72nJL_2Xj0tduRFA@mail.gmail.com>

@Noah

Exactly what are reactions like those that close the mouths of those who
have some courage to intervene. And to you, to avoid these kind of
discouragement, if you have nothing to add to people's comments, do not
disparage it please, thank you.


--------

Justement ce sont des r?actions comme celles qui ferment la bouche ? ceux
qui ont certains courages pour intervenir. A vous aussi d'?viter de ces
genre de d?couragement, si vous n'avez rien ? ajouter aux commentaires des
gens, ne les d?nigrez pas s'il vous plais,  merci.

Regards.

Arnaud

2015-11-24 19:49 GMT+00:00 Noah <noah at neo.co.tz>:

> Some of you ought to remain either silent or as observers......
>
> some of your comments clearly ever add value....
>
> We are sick and tired....
>
> Noah
> On 24 Nov 2015 22:37, "Owen DeLong" <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Nov 24, 2015, at 04:08 , Badru Ntege <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Owen
>>
>> I think Andrew did make his point very clear and as shocking as it maybe
>> to you I think we had a fact based discussion and to me ended mutually.
>> Actually again to shock you I of all the dialogue I had on this list I
>> think the one with Andrew was clear.
>>
>> What I do not understand is contributions like yours which look for what
>> was not in the email.  I might not agree with Andrew most times but does
>> not mean I cannot dialogue with him.
>>
>>
>> You are the one incorporating things not in the email. I never said you
>> could not dialogue with Andrew and I would never presume to speak for him.
>>
>> I spoke only to what I saw as the facts of the matter and of my opinion
>> as a concerned member of the community.
>>
>>
>> Unless he asked you to help on the mail (which I doubt)  I do not
>> understand why you then write on his behalf
>>
>>
>> Again, I do not believe I did so. I wrote on my behalf as a concerned
>> member of the community who is tired of your repetitive attempts to rewrite
>> history to your own liking.
>>
>> Unfortunately its missguided souls like you that are part of our biggest
>> problem.  One could even go as far as calling  the cancer.
>>
>>
>> An interesting and telling comment.
>>
>> I wonder, could you attack my statements on their merit rather than
>> resorting to ad hominem?
>>
>> Owen
>>
>>
>> Baffled ????????
>>
>>
>> On 11/23/15, 10:35 PM, "Owen DeLong" <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Nov 23, 2015, at 03:26 , Badru Ntege <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> Comments inline
>>
>> On 11/23/15, 2:11 PM, "Andrew Alston" <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Firstly, let me state my apologies for my silence of late, due to
>> circumstances beyond my control I have been largely out of contact for the
>> purposes of AfriNIC business for the better part of 2 months.  It is
>> important to note that the terms of reference require that the audit
>> committee act unanimously, and this could not happen over this period,
>> hence certain delays, which again, I apologise for.
>>
>>
>> Could we be lead to assume that you do not have enough time to serve
>> Afrinic.  We do totally understand that Afrinic is purely voluntary and if
>> your primary assignments have become too demanding, mechanisms of relieving
>> the workload do exist.  I?m sure chair is fully aware of these so we do not
>> have to elaborate.
>>
>>
>> Badru,
>>
>> It?s clear you can be led to assume whatever you wish and that you are
>> clearly attempting to lead the community to assume facts not in evidence.
>>
>> Even the most dedicated volunteers sometimes have things come up which
>> temporarily pull them away from their volunteer duties. Andrew has
>> expressed this in a manner that implies the distraction was temporary in
>> nature and I see no reason to believe otherwise. I?m quite certain that if
>> Andrew faced any sort of permanent inability to fulfill his obligations, he
>> would act accordingly without requiring any form of encouragement from you.
>>
>>
>>
>> Please rest assured that a lot of work has gone in since Tunis into
>> ensuring that the information that is provided to the community is accurate
>> and a fair representation.  I would rather such information was provided
>> slightly delayed than contained inaccuracies or disputed pointed, and as a
>> result, the work has taken a significant amount of time, due to the care
>> and thoroughness applied.
>>
>>
>> The above in a way is in contradiction to your pre-ceeding statement
>> which referred to conflicting priorities.
>>
>>
>> No, it isn?t. Andrew stated that one of the contributing factors to the
>> overall delay has been his inability to work on the matter.
>>
>> This paragraph seems to me to state that there are other factors as well,
>> including the need for extensive work presumably performed by other members
>> of the committee. Further, Andrew stated that his inability to work on the
>> matter only covers the last 2 months (September and October). Since the
>> Tunis meeting was early in June, that leaves several other months during
>> which even he could have been doing significant work on this.
>>
>> You seem so determined to find fault with the current board and Andrew in
>> particular that you have failed to apply even the most basic of logic and
>> mathematics to your analysis of Andrew?s message.
>>
>>
>>
>> Lastly, Badru, you make reference to 3 days instead of 14 days.  I point
>> out that the notice of the SGMM was published on the 20th of November 2014,
>> for an SGMM that is scheduled for the 3rd of December.  By my calculations,
>> 3 days would mean that the SGMM is on the 23rd of November, so you seem to
>> have misplaced 11 days.  Hence, while you refer to a section in the bylaws
>> that references ANNUAL general meetings, rather that SPECIAL general
>> meetings, if you choose to conflate the two (and there is reason within the
>> companies act why you should not do that), even under these circumstances
>> the timelines have been met.
>>
>>
>> My reference to the 3 days was to the information provided by Chair in
>> the earlier email.  However once again this is subjective based on ones
>> paradigm.
>>
>>
>> Then your reference is misplaced because as Andrew pointed out, you
>> referenced a section of the bylaws that applies to the notice to be given
>> of Annual General Member Meetings. If you have a correct reference in the
>> bylaws that requires 14 days notice for the information from the chair in
>> the earlier email, please provide a corrected reference point in the
>> bylaws. Otherwise, please accept that you were mistaken and let?s all move
>> on from this point.
>>
>> Owen
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing
>> list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
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From seun.ojedeji at gmail.com  Tue Nov 24 21:17:25 2015
From: seun.ojedeji at gmail.com (Seun Ojedeji)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 22:17:25 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
In-Reply-To: <CAEqgTWbYYQ=T6cxzFZBbeKTExTNoyuGWdBpvmjToqan2i7jE_Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <3380710B-F06E-458F-AFA2-9D630C1A6194@nftconsult.com>
 <56A17566-C189-492A-B11A-99A811F6D0DC@delong.com>
 <DDB99A59-FB85-4CED-A6E2-4BEE52F3E9B3@nftconsult.com>
 <751F4BC0-5657-4814-8405-2C15D2BCF73A@delong.com>
 <CAEqgTWbYYQ=T6cxzFZBbeKTExTNoyuGWdBpvmjToqan2i7jE_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD_dc6i5VCNUT7C8rL=k465eXeVDBa0fofYwX3MjqMAOBXbizw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Noah,

I don't think a public response like this to a community member is
appropriate. We all have our differences and we should recognise that by
accommodating one another.

I have participated within other RIR communities and I don't experience
such a response, the worse I get is "no response" to my comments (which by
the way can be annoying), but it doesn't mean I am not permitted to share
my view.

I encourage us all to remain focused on the substance in the interest of
the organisation. Like Prof Nii rightly alluded to; the world is watching.

Regards

Sent from my Asus Zenfone2
Kindly excuse brevity and typos.
On 24 Nov 2015 20:50, "Noah" <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:

> Some of you ought to remain either silent or as observers......
>
> some of your comments clearly ever add value....
>
> We are sick and tired....
>
> Noah
> On 24 Nov 2015 22:37, "Owen DeLong" <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Nov 24, 2015, at 04:08 , Badru Ntege <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Owen
>>
>> I think Andrew did make his point very clear and as shocking as it maybe
>> to you I think we had a fact based discussion and to me ended mutually.
>> Actually again to shock you I of all the dialogue I had on this list I
>> think the one with Andrew was clear.
>>
>> What I do not understand is contributions like yours which look for what
>> was not in the email.  I might not agree with Andrew most times but does
>> not mean I cannot dialogue with him.
>>
>>
>> You are the one incorporating things not in the email. I never said you
>> could not dialogue with Andrew and I would never presume to speak for him.
>>
>> I spoke only to what I saw as the facts of the matter and of my opinion
>> as a concerned member of the community.
>>
>>
>> Unless he asked you to help on the mail (which I doubt)  I do not
>> understand why you then write on his behalf
>>
>>
>> Again, I do not believe I did so. I wrote on my behalf as a concerned
>> member of the community who is tired of your repetitive attempts to rewrite
>> history to your own liking.
>>
>> Unfortunately its missguided souls like you that are part of our biggest
>> problem.  One could even go as far as calling  the cancer.
>>
>>
>> An interesting and telling comment.
>>
>> I wonder, could you attack my statements on their merit rather than
>> resorting to ad hominem?
>>
>> Owen
>>
>>
>> Baffled ????????
>>
>>
>> On 11/23/15, 10:35 PM, "Owen DeLong" <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Nov 23, 2015, at 03:26 , Badru Ntege <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> Comments inline
>>
>> On 11/23/15, 2:11 PM, "Andrew Alston" <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Firstly, let me state my apologies for my silence of late, due to
>> circumstances beyond my control I have been largely out of contact for the
>> purposes of AfriNIC business for the better part of 2 months.  It is
>> important to note that the terms of reference require that the audit
>> committee act unanimously, and this could not happen over this period,
>> hence certain delays, which again, I apologise for.
>>
>>
>> Could we be lead to assume that you do not have enough time to serve
>> Afrinic.  We do totally understand that Afrinic is purely voluntary and if
>> your primary assignments have become too demanding, mechanisms of relieving
>> the workload do exist.  I?m sure chair is fully aware of these so we do not
>> have to elaborate.
>>
>>
>> Badru,
>>
>> It?s clear you can be led to assume whatever you wish and that you are
>> clearly attempting to lead the community to assume facts not in evidence.
>>
>> Even the most dedicated volunteers sometimes have things come up which
>> temporarily pull them away from their volunteer duties. Andrew has
>> expressed this in a manner that implies the distraction was temporary in
>> nature and I see no reason to believe otherwise. I?m quite certain that if
>> Andrew faced any sort of permanent inability to fulfill his obligations, he
>> would act accordingly without requiring any form of encouragement from you.
>>
>>
>>
>> Please rest assured that a lot of work has gone in since Tunis into
>> ensuring that the information that is provided to the community is accurate
>> and a fair representation.  I would rather such information was provided
>> slightly delayed than contained inaccuracies or disputed pointed, and as a
>> result, the work has taken a significant amount of time, due to the care
>> and thoroughness applied.
>>
>>
>> The above in a way is in contradiction to your pre-ceeding statement
>> which referred to conflicting priorities.
>>
>>
>> No, it isn?t. Andrew stated that one of the contributing factors to the
>> overall delay has been his inability to work on the matter.
>>
>> This paragraph seems to me to state that there are other factors as well,
>> including the need for extensive work presumably performed by other members
>> of the committee. Further, Andrew stated that his inability to work on the
>> matter only covers the last 2 months (September and October). Since the
>> Tunis meeting was early in June, that leaves several other months during
>> which even he could have been doing significant work on this.
>>
>> You seem so determined to find fault with the current board and Andrew in
>> particular that you have failed to apply even the most basic of logic and
>> mathematics to your analysis of Andrew?s message.
>>
>>
>>
>> Lastly, Badru, you make reference to 3 days instead of 14 days.  I point
>> out that the notice of the SGMM was published on the 20th of November 2014,
>> for an SGMM that is scheduled for the 3rd of December.  By my calculations,
>> 3 days would mean that the SGMM is on the 23rd of November, so you seem to
>> have misplaced 11 days.  Hence, while you refer to a section in the bylaws
>> that references ANNUAL general meetings, rather that SPECIAL general
>> meetings, if you choose to conflate the two (and there is reason within the
>> companies act why you should not do that), even under these circumstances
>> the timelines have been met.
>>
>>
>> My reference to the 3 days was to the information provided by Chair in
>> the earlier email.  However once again this is subjective based on ones
>> paradigm.
>>
>>
>> Then your reference is misplaced because as Andrew pointed out, you
>> referenced a section of the bylaws that applies to the notice to be given
>> of Annual General Member Meetings. If you have a correct reference in the
>> bylaws that requires 14 days notice for the information from the chair in
>> the earlier email, please provide a corrected reference point in the
>> bylaws. Otherwise, please accept that you were mistaken and let?s all move
>> on from this point.
>>
>> Owen
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing
>> list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
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From noah at neo.co.tz  Tue Nov 24 21:58:50 2015
From: noah at neo.co.tz (Noah)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2015 00:58:50 +0300
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
In-Reply-To: <CAD_dc6i5VCNUT7C8rL=k465eXeVDBa0fofYwX3MjqMAOBXbizw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <3380710B-F06E-458F-AFA2-9D630C1A6194@nftconsult.com>
 <56A17566-C189-492A-B11A-99A811F6D0DC@delong.com>
 <DDB99A59-FB85-4CED-A6E2-4BEE52F3E9B3@nftconsult.com>
 <751F4BC0-5657-4814-8405-2C15D2BCF73A@delong.com>
 <CAEqgTWbYYQ=T6cxzFZBbeKTExTNoyuGWdBpvmjToqan2i7jE_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD_dc6i5VCNUT7C8rL=k465eXeVDBa0fofYwX3MjqMAOBXbizw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAEqgTWbPqbQwtE0eqYASxXFr1k9VaVpTt6HZp_566cUxoJYDSQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Seun

Dont treat my response out of context.

I did not respond to any specific person in particular... my subjective
frustration was a general outcry....

I also dont even understand the catch phrase "the world is watching" ...
which world and does it care???????

We ought to sort our own issues ourselves at the end of the day going
forward.... we appreciate the past support.

Noah
On 25 Nov 2015 00:18, "Seun Ojedeji" <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello Noah,
>
> I don't think a public response like this to a community member is
> appropriate. We all have our differences and we should recognise that by
> accommodating one another.
>
> I have participated within other RIR communities and I don't experience
> such a response, the worse I get is "no response" to my comments (which by
> the way can be annoying), but it doesn't mean I am not permitted to share
> my view.
>
> I encourage us all to remain focused on the substance in the interest of
> the organisation. Like Prof Nii rightly alluded to; the world is watching.
>
> Regards
>
> Sent from my Asus Zenfone2
> Kindly excuse brevity and typos.
> On 24 Nov 2015 20:50, "Noah" <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:
>
>> Some of you ought to remain either silent or as observers......
>>
>> some of your comments clearly ever add value....
>>
>> We are sick and tired....
>>
>> Noah
>> On 24 Nov 2015 22:37, "Owen DeLong" <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 24, 2015, at 04:08 , Badru Ntege <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Owen
>>>
>>> I think Andrew did make his point very clear and as shocking as it maybe
>>> to you I think we had a fact based discussion and to me ended mutually.
>>> Actually again to shock you I of all the dialogue I had on this list I
>>> think the one with Andrew was clear.
>>>
>>> What I do not understand is contributions like yours which look for what
>>> was not in the email.  I might not agree with Andrew most times but does
>>> not mean I cannot dialogue with him.
>>>
>>>
>>> You are the one incorporating things not in the email. I never said you
>>> could not dialogue with Andrew and I would never presume to speak for him.
>>>
>>> I spoke only to what I saw as the facts of the matter and of my opinion
>>> as a concerned member of the community.
>>>
>>>
>>> Unless he asked you to help on the mail (which I doubt)  I do not
>>> understand why you then write on his behalf
>>>
>>>
>>> Again, I do not believe I did so. I wrote on my behalf as a concerned
>>> member of the community who is tired of your repetitive attempts to rewrite
>>> history to your own liking.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately its missguided souls like you that are part of our biggest
>>> problem.  One could even go as far as calling  the cancer.
>>>
>>>
>>> An interesting and telling comment.
>>>
>>> I wonder, could you attack my statements on their merit rather than
>>> resorting to ad hominem?
>>>
>>> Owen
>>>
>>>
>>> Baffled ????????
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/23/15, 10:35 PM, "Owen DeLong" <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On Nov 23, 2015, at 03:26 , Badru Ntege <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>> Comments inline
>>>
>>> On 11/23/15, 2:11 PM, "Andrew Alston" <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> Firstly, let me state my apologies for my silence of late, due to
>>> circumstances beyond my control I have been largely out of contact for the
>>> purposes of AfriNIC business for the better part of 2 months.  It is
>>> important to note that the terms of reference require that the audit
>>> committee act unanimously, and this could not happen over this period,
>>> hence certain delays, which again, I apologise for.
>>>
>>>
>>> Could we be lead to assume that you do not have enough time to serve
>>> Afrinic.  We do totally understand that Afrinic is purely voluntary and if
>>> your primary assignments have become too demanding, mechanisms of relieving
>>> the workload do exist.  I?m sure chair is fully aware of these so we do not
>>> have to elaborate.
>>>
>>>
>>> Badru,
>>>
>>> It?s clear you can be led to assume whatever you wish and that you are
>>> clearly attempting to lead the community to assume facts not in evidence.
>>>
>>> Even the most dedicated volunteers sometimes have things come up which
>>> temporarily pull them away from their volunteer duties. Andrew has
>>> expressed this in a manner that implies the distraction was temporary in
>>> nature and I see no reason to believe otherwise. I?m quite certain that if
>>> Andrew faced any sort of permanent inability to fulfill his obligations, he
>>> would act accordingly without requiring any form of encouragement from you.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Please rest assured that a lot of work has gone in since Tunis into
>>> ensuring that the information that is provided to the community is accurate
>>> and a fair representation.  I would rather such information was provided
>>> slightly delayed than contained inaccuracies or disputed pointed, and as a
>>> result, the work has taken a significant amount of time, due to the care
>>> and thoroughness applied.
>>>
>>>
>>> The above in a way is in contradiction to your pre-ceeding statement
>>> which referred to conflicting priorities.
>>>
>>>
>>> No, it isn?t. Andrew stated that one of the contributing factors to the
>>> overall delay has been his inability to work on the matter.
>>>
>>> This paragraph seems to me to state that there are other factors as
>>> well, including the need for extensive work presumably performed by other
>>> members of the committee. Further, Andrew stated that his inability to work
>>> on the matter only covers the last 2 months (September and October). Since
>>> the Tunis meeting was early in June, that leaves several other months
>>> during which even he could have been doing significant work on this.
>>>
>>> You seem so determined to find fault with the current board and Andrew
>>> in particular that you have failed to apply even the most basic of logic
>>> and mathematics to your analysis of Andrew?s message.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Lastly, Badru, you make reference to 3 days instead of 14 days.  I point
>>> out that the notice of the SGMM was published on the 20th of November 2014,
>>> for an SGMM that is scheduled for the 3rd of December.  By my calculations,
>>> 3 days would mean that the SGMM is on the 23rd of November, so you seem to
>>> have misplaced 11 days.  Hence, while you refer to a section in the bylaws
>>> that references ANNUAL general meetings, rather that SPECIAL general
>>> meetings, if you choose to conflate the two (and there is reason within the
>>> companies act why you should not do that), even under these circumstances
>>> the timelines have been met.
>>>
>>>
>>> My reference to the 3 days was to the information provided by Chair in
>>> the earlier email.  However once again this is subjective based on ones
>>> paradigm.
>>>
>>>
>>> Then your reference is misplaced because as Andrew pointed out, you
>>> referenced a section of the bylaws that applies to the notice to be given
>>> of Annual General Member Meetings. If you have a correct reference in the
>>> bylaws that requires 14 days notice for the information from the chair in
>>> the earlier email, please provide a corrected reference point in the
>>> bylaws. Otherwise, please accept that you were mistaken and let?s all move
>>> on from this point.
>>>
>>> Owen
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss
>>> mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
>
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From sergekbk at gmail.com  Tue Nov 24 21:59:01 2015
From: sergekbk at gmail.com (sergekbk)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 22:59:01 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
Message-ID: <mfknjgxn6ptlqhwownfpl9rw.1448402341830@email.android.com>

+1 Seun.?
We are a community driven organization and our attitude in every case shall tend to valuate each other.

It is painful to see such exchange on this list.
Thanks Dr. Nii for the advice.?

Kind Regards.


Envoy? depuis mon smartphone Samsung Galaxy.


-------- Message d'origine --------
De : Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com> 
Date :24/11/2015  22:17  (GMT+01:00) 
A : General discussion of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net> 
Cc : AfriNIC Discuss <members-discuss at afrinic.net> 
Objet : Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd November 2015 

Hello Noah,

I don't think a public response like this to a community member is appropriate. We all have our differences and we should recognise that by accommodating one another.

I have participated within other RIR communities and I don't experience such a response, the worse I get is "no response" to my comments (which by the way can be annoying), but it doesn't mean I am not permitted to share my view.

I encourage us all to remain focused on the substance in the interest of the organisation. Like Prof Nii rightly alluded to; the world is watching.

Regards

Sent from my Asus Zenfone2
Kindly excuse brevity and typos.

On 24 Nov 2015 20:50, "Noah" <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:
Some of you ought to remain either silent or as observers......

some of your comments clearly ever add value....

We are sick and tired....

Noah

On 24 Nov 2015 22:37, "Owen DeLong" <owen at delong.com> wrote:

On Nov 24, 2015, at 04:08 , Badru Ntege <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com> wrote:

Owen

I think Andrew did make his point very clear and as shocking as it maybe to you I think we had a fact based discussion and to me ended mutually.  Actually again to shock you I of all the dialogue I had on this list I think the one with Andrew was clear.  

What I do not understand is contributions like yours which look for what was not in the email.  I might not agree with Andrew most times but does not mean I cannot dialogue with him.  

You are the one incorporating things not in the email. I never said you could not dialogue with Andrew and I would never presume to speak for him.

I spoke only to what I saw as the facts of the matter and of my opinion as a concerned member of the community.


Unless he asked you to help on the mail (which I doubt)  I do not understand why you then write on his behalf

Again, I do not believe I did so. I wrote on my behalf as a concerned member of the community who is tired of your repetitive attempts to rewrite history to your own liking.

Unfortunately its missguided souls like you that are part of our biggest problem.  One could even go as far as calling  the cancer.

An interesting and telling comment.

I wonder, could you attack my statements on their merit rather than resorting to ad hominem?

Owen


Baffled ????????


On 11/23/15, 10:35 PM, "Owen DeLong" <owen at delong.com> wrote:


On Nov 23, 2015, at 03:26 , Badru Ntege <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com> wrote:

Andrew

Comments inline

On 11/23/15, 2:11 PM, "Andrew Alston" <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com> wrote:

Hi All,

Firstly, let me state my apologies for my silence of late, due to circumstances beyond my control I have been largely out of contact for the purposes of AfriNIC business for the better part of 2 months. It is important to note that the terms of reference require that the audit committee act unanimously, and this could not happen over this period, hence certain delays, which again, I apologise for.

Could we be lead to assume that you do not have enough time to serve Afrinic. We do totally understand that Afrinic is purely voluntary and if your primary assignments have become too demanding, mechanisms of relieving the workload do exist. I?m sure chair is fully aware of these so we do not have to elaborate.

Badru,

It?s clear you can be led to assume whatever you wish and that you are clearly attempting to lead the community to assume facts not in evidence.

Even the most dedicated volunteers sometimes have things come up which temporarily pull them away from their volunteer duties. Andrew has expressed this in a manner that implies the distraction was temporary in nature and I see no reason to believe otherwise. I?m quite certain that if Andrew faced any sort of permanent inability to fulfill his obligations, he would act accordingly without requiring any form of encouragement from you.



Please rest assured that a lot of work has gone in since Tunis into ensuring that the information that is provided to the community is accurate and a fair representation. I would rather such information was provided slightly delayed than contained inaccuracies or disputed pointed, and as a result, the work has taken a significant amount of time, due to the care and thoroughness applied.

The above in a way is in contradiction to your pre-ceeding statement which referred to conflicting priorities.

No, it isn?t. Andrew stated that one of the contributing factors to the overall delay has been his inability to work on the matter.

This paragraph seems to me to state that there are other factors as well, including the need for extensive work presumably performed by other members of the committee. Further, Andrew stated that his inability to work on the matter only covers the last 2 months (September and October). Since the Tunis meeting was early in June, that leaves several other months during which even he could have been doing significant work on this.

You seem so determined to find fault with the current board and Andrew in particular that you have failed to apply even the most basic of logic and mathematics to your analysis of Andrew?s message.



Lastly, Badru, you make reference to 3 days instead of 14 days. I point out that the notice of the SGMM was published on the 20th of November 2014, for an SGMM that is scheduled for the 3rd of December. By my calculations, 3 days would mean that the SGMM is on the 23rd of November, so you seem to have misplaced 11 days. Hence, while you refer to a section in the bylaws that references ANNUAL general meetings, rather that SPECIAL general meetings, if you choose to conflate the two (and there is reason within the companies act why you should not do that), even under these circumstances the timelines have been met.

My reference to the 3 days was to the information provided by Chair in the earlier email. However once again this is subjective based on ones paradigm.

Then your reference is misplaced because as Andrew pointed out, you referenced a section of the bylaws that applies to the notice to be given of Annual General Member Meetings. If you have a correct reference in the bylaws that requires 14 days notice for the information from the chair in the earlier email, please provide a corrected reference point in the bylaws. Otherwise, please accept that you were mistaken and let?s all move on from this point.

Owen


_______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss


_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss


_______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
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From seun.ojedeji at gmail.com  Tue Nov 24 22:17:49 2015
From: seun.ojedeji at gmail.com (Seun Ojedeji)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 23:17:49 +0100
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
In-Reply-To: <CAEqgTWbPqbQwtE0eqYASxXFr1k9VaVpTt6HZp_566cUxoJYDSQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <3380710B-F06E-458F-AFA2-9D630C1A6194@nftconsult.com>
 <56A17566-C189-492A-B11A-99A811F6D0DC@delong.com>
 <DDB99A59-FB85-4CED-A6E2-4BEE52F3E9B3@nftconsult.com>
 <751F4BC0-5657-4814-8405-2C15D2BCF73A@delong.com>
 <CAEqgTWbYYQ=T6cxzFZBbeKTExTNoyuGWdBpvmjToqan2i7jE_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD_dc6i5VCNUT7C8rL=k465eXeVDBa0fofYwX3MjqMAOBXbizw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEqgTWbPqbQwtE0eqYASxXFr1k9VaVpTt6HZp_566cUxoJYDSQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD_dc6ipq1317O+Fz_EGQekY=HxAWbFJvT+kxj5di2KDi3ZYCA@mail.gmail.com>

Sent from my Asus Zenfone2
Kindly excuse brevity and typos.
On 24 Nov 2015 22:59, "Noah" <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:
>
> Hi Seun
>
> Dont treat my response out of context.
>
> I did not respond to any specific person in particular... my subjective
frustration was a general outcry....
>
SO: Okay if that is the case, noted.

> I also dont even understand the catch phrase "the world is watching" ...
which world and does it care???????
>
SO: It does care, but care could have different meaning depending on which
part of the world we are looking at. There is a part watching and waiting
for AfriNIC to fail, there is another part of the world watching and
wondering how they can help contribute to further development of the
organisation. While both seem to care, they are ofcourse for different
intent and cause.

> We ought to sort our own issues ourselves at the end of the day going
forward.... we appreciate the past support.
>
SO: 100% agreed and that's why "the world is watching" also implies that
they are watching us as we resolve our issues ourselves. There are issues
no doubt and with the community contributing constructively and challenging
the organisation management positively on how to address the issues, I am
hopeful that we will get there. (Now please don't ask me where "there" is
;-) )

Regards

> Noah
>
> On 25 Nov 2015 00:18, "Seun Ojedeji" <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hello Noah,
>>
>> I don't think a public response like this to a community member is
appropriate. We all have our differences and we should recognise that by
accommodating one another.
>>
>> I have participated within other RIR communities and I don't experience
such a response, the worse I get is "no response" to my comments (which by
the way can be annoying), but it doesn't mean I am not permitted to share
my view.
>>
>> I encourage us all to remain focused on the substance in the interest of
the organisation. Like Prof Nii rightly alluded to; the world is watching.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Sent from my Asus Zenfone2
>> Kindly excuse brevity and typos.
>>
>> On 24 Nov 2015 20:50, "Noah" <noah at neo.co.tz> wrote:
>>>
>>> Some of you ought to remain either silent or as observers......
>>>
>>> some of your comments clearly ever add value....
>>>
>>> We are sick and tired....
>>>
>>> Noah
>>>
>>> On 24 Nov 2015 22:37, "Owen DeLong" <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Nov 24, 2015, at 04:08 , Badru Ntege <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com>
wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Owen
>>>>>
>>>>> I think Andrew did make his point very clear and as shocking as it
maybe to you I think we had a fact based discussion and to me ended
mutually.  Actually again to shock you I of all the dialogue I had on this
list I think the one with Andrew was clear.
>>>>>
>>>>> What I do not understand is contributions like yours which look for
what was not in the email.  I might not agree with Andrew most times but
does not mean I cannot dialogue with him.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You are the one incorporating things not in the email. I never said
you could not dialogue with Andrew and I would never presume to speak for
him.
>>>>
>>>> I spoke only to what I saw as the facts of the matter and of my
opinion as a concerned member of the community.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Unless he asked you to help on the mail (which I doubt)  I do not
understand why you then write on his behalf
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Again, I do not believe I did so. I wrote on my behalf as a concerned
member of the community who is tired of your repetitive attempts to rewrite
history to your own liking.
>>>>
>>>>> Unfortunately its missguided souls like you that are part of our
biggest problem.  One could even go as far as calling  the cancer.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> An interesting and telling comment.
>>>>
>>>> I wonder, could you attack my statements on their merit rather than
resorting to ad hominem?
>>>>
>>>> Owen
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Baffled ????????
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/23/15, 10:35 PM, "Owen DeLong" <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Nov 23, 2015, at 03:26 , Badru Ntege <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com>
wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Andrew
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Comments inline
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/23/15, 2:11 PM, "Andrew Alston" <
Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Firstly, let me state my apologies for my silence of late, due to
circumstances beyond my control I have been largely out of contact for the
purposes of AfriNIC business for the better part of 2 months.  It is
important to note that the terms of reference require that the audit
committee act unanimously, and this could not happen over this period,
hence certain delays, which again, I apologise for.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Could we be lead to assume that you do not have enough time to
serve Afrinic.  We do totally understand that Afrinic is purely voluntary
and if your primary assignments have become too demanding, mechanisms of
relieving the workload do exist.  I?m sure chair is fully aware of these so
we do not have to elaborate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Badru,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It?s clear you can be led to assume whatever you wish and that you
are clearly attempting to lead the community to assume facts not in
evidence.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Even the most dedicated volunteers sometimes have things come up
which temporarily pull them away from their volunteer duties. Andrew has
expressed this in a manner that implies the distraction was temporary in
nature and I see no reason to believe otherwise. I?m quite certain that if
Andrew faced any sort of permanent inability to fulfill his obligations, he
would act accordingly without requiring any form of encouragement from you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Please rest assured that a lot of work has gone in since Tunis
into ensuring that the information that is provided to the community is
accurate and a fair representation.  I would rather such information was
provided slightly delayed than contained inaccuracies or disputed pointed,
and as a result, the work has taken a significant amount of time, due to
the care and thoroughness applied.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The above in a way is in contradiction to your pre-ceeding
statement which referred to conflicting priorities.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, it isn?t. Andrew stated that one of the contributing factors to
the overall delay has been his inability to work on the matter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This paragraph seems to me to state that there are other factors as
well, including the need for extensive work presumably performed by other
members of the committee. Further, Andrew stated that his inability to work
on the matter only covers the last 2 months (September and October). Since
the Tunis meeting was early in June, that leaves several other months
during which even he could have been doing significant work on this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You seem so determined to find fault with the current board and
Andrew in particular that you have failed to apply even the most basic of
logic and mathematics to your analysis of Andrew?s message.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lastly, Badru, you make reference to 3 days instead of 14 days.  I
point out that the notice of the SGMM was published on the 20th of November
2014, for an SGMM that is scheduled for the 3rd of December.  By my
calculations, 3 days would mean that the SGMM is on the 23rd of November,
so you seem to have misplaced 11 days.  Hence, while you refer to a section
in the bylaws that references ANNUAL general meetings, rather that SPECIAL
general meetings, if you choose to conflate the two (and there is reason
within the companies act why you should not do that), even under these
circumstances the timelines have been met.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My reference to the 3 days was to the information provided by Chair
in the earlier email.  However once again this is subjective based on ones
paradigm.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then your reference is misplaced because as Andrew pointed out, you
referenced a section of the bylaws that applies to the notice to be given
of Annual General Member Meetings. If you have a correct reference in the
bylaws that requires 14 days notice for the information from the chair in
the earlier email, please provide a corrected reference point in the
bylaws. Otherwise, please accept that you were mistaken and let?s all move
on from this point.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Owen
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________ Community-Discuss
mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>>>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>>>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Community-Discuss mailing list
>> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
>> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Community-Discuss mailing list
> Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
>
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From owen at delong.com  Tue Nov 24 22:44:36 2015
From: owen at delong.com (Owen DeLong)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 14:44:36 -0800
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
	November 2015
In-Reply-To: <CAD_dc6ipq1317O+Fz_EGQekY=HxAWbFJvT+kxj5di2KDi3ZYCA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <3380710B-F06E-458F-AFA2-9D630C1A6194@nftconsult.com>
 <56A17566-C189-492A-B11A-99A811F6D0DC@delong.com>
 <DDB99A59-FB85-4CED-A6E2-4BEE52F3E9B3@nftconsult.com>
 <751F4BC0-5657-4814-8405-2C15D2BCF73A@delong.com>
 <CAEqgTWbYYQ=T6cxzFZBbeKTExTNoyuGWdBpvmjToqan2i7jE_Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD_dc6i5VCNUT7C8rL=k465eXeVDBa0fofYwX3MjqMAOBXbizw@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAEqgTWbPqbQwtE0eqYASxXFr1k9VaVpTt6HZp_566cUxoJYDSQ@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAD_dc6ipq1317O+Fz_EGQekY=HxAWbFJvT+kxj5di2KDi3ZYCA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F336ADE8-6C75-49F8-9300-523A9D705AAA@delong.com>

[much snipped]
> SO: ... (Now please don't ask me where "there" is ;-) )
> 

Perhaps this is a significant contributor to the difficulties of these discussions.

Allow me to digress into an example from one of my other fields? As many of you know, I am a pilot. I fly small airplanes, often in clouds, for fun.

I enjoy the mental challenge of navigation and situational awareness while deprived of visual reference.

There are three fundamental components to any problem of navigation.

1.	Where am I?
2.	Where do I want to be?
3.	How do I get there.

Unless one has a clear answer for questions 1 and 2, it is absolutely impossible to come to any meaningful or useful conclusion on question 3.

Note I use the word clear rather than precise. Precision is not necessarily required.

Example, if I know that I am in the San Francisco Bay Area and that I want to be in Oregon, I can provide a useful answer to question 3 comprised
of ?head 340?? and know that I am flying towards my destination while I develop more precise answers to 1 and 2.

This represents the relatively simple case of a single pilot navigating a single craft to a single destination.

Coming back to AfriNIC, we are faced with a much more complicated problem. First, it is clear to me that various members of the community
are both in a multitude of places in terms of what they believe to be the current AfriNIC status. Second, there is an even wider dispersion among
the community of ?where do we want to be??.

I believe that the board?s efforts with respect to publishing the minutes and other improved and expanded transparency efforts will help with question 1.

Given that, however, I think it may well be worth taking some time to examine question 2 in more detail and attempt to develop a community consensus
around something like a 5 year plan. I don?t know if there is an existing strategic plan for AfriNIC or not. Clearly, if there is, a review of its goals and
objectives with the community may be in order and it may be appropriate to modify it based on community feedback. Perhaps this can be one of the
first tasks for the governance committee, to develop and execute a process by which that can occur. Perhaps the board should tackle this directly.
I will leave that decision in the capable hands of the board.

Only when the community has come to some level of consensus about where we want to be can we begin to come together in a more useful dialog
about how to get there.

Owen


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From jwalu at yahoo.com  Tue Nov 24 16:00:15 2015
From: jwalu at yahoo.com (Walubengo J)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 16:00:15 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] Let's Move Forward (Was
 Re: AFRINIC Update 23rd November 2015)
In-Reply-To: <5F41B0DF-64E5-47AF-AB58-0D3420F6FD54@ghana.com>
References: <5F41B0DF-64E5-47AF-AB58-0D3420F6FD54@ghana.com>
Message-ID: <1978539206.9982375.1448380815225.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

+1
the world is indeed watching us...and thinking... 'Only in Africa'.?
That a past chair, a current chair, and a current board member can chose to publicly read from different scripts.?
But then again, we are indeed a continent of firsts. The first homo sapiens, the first civilisation(Egyptian?) and not so proudly the first Ebola cases...
Not quite sure which category of firsts is currently unfolding :-)
walu.
      From: Nii Narku Quaynor <quaynor at ghana.com>
 To: Sunday Folayan <sunday.folayan at afrinic.net> 
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>; AfriNIC Discuss <members-discuss at afrinic.net>
 Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2015 3:54 PM
 Subject: [members-discuss] Let's Move Forward (Was Re: [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd November 2015)
   
Hello members and community,

A lot has been said around the discussions on the upcoming SGMM and some do not honour our common organisation?
Please let us take steps to resolve the issues, while moving forward in a positive and strong format. The world is watching and we have no right to fail

2005-2015, AFRINIC is celebrating 10 years anniversary, a long journey. It is time for us to show goodwill and good plans for a united future
Let's move forward constructively?
Best wishes in PNNii


On Nov 24, 2015, at 09:06, Sunday Folayan <sunday.folayan at afrinic.net> wrote:


 
Dear Christian,
 
 Please do not miss the point being made.
 
 I took over as Chair in November 2014. That is just 2 months to the end of 2014. I am responsible for the 2014 Audited Accounts no passing the buck. I took the flak and heat in Tunis, and with dignity, without reminding anyone that I was just chair for 2 months. Does that make sense now?
 
 Rewind way back to 2012. Badru took over as Chair in August 2012. He should take responsibility for 2012 and 2013, and not pass it. 
 
 I will ignore the other usual innuendoes regarding Board vs Community.
 
 Cheers.
 
 Sunday.
 
 On 24/11/2015 01:29, Bope Domilongo Christian wrote:
  
 Dear all,

I honestly think we should let the debate be open and transparent for the
interest and the development of the organization. Furthermore I do not
think the Board should not target single member of the community related to
his view and opinion which could be different.

I have seen a lot of contribution from different members of communities
which I really appreciate in order to improve what need to be improve
"there will be always room for improvement. I do thing the Board should
accept others view and critics not targeting specific member.

Finally I will advocate a respectful  open debate professional.

Speaking on my own capacity

Regards
On 24 Nov 2015 6:26 am, "Sunday Folayan" <sunday.folayan at afrinic.net> wrote:

 
 Dear Badru,

AFRINIC History is not hidden and should not be craftily re-written in
emails such as these.

You were elected to the Board in May 2012 during AFRINIC-16 at Banjul.
http://afrinic.net/en/library/news/735-afrinic-elects-new-board-members

You were elected Chair of the Board in August 2012.
http://afrinic.net/en/library/news/307-main-news-page

The Board met f2f under your watch at AFRINIC-17 in November 2012 in
Khartoum, Sudan. You did not inherit any budget.
https://www.afrinic.net/images/doc/board_resolutions_2013.pdf

The AGMM in Lusaka was during AFRINIC-18 in June 2013. You had chaired
the Board for a whole year.
https://www.afrinic.net/images/images/agmm_nom_210613_2.pdf  The second
to the last paragraph on page 3 should remind you.

The AGMM in Djibouti at AfriNIC-20 in June 2014 was your second year
running as Chair.

You handed over to me during AfriNIC-21 at Mauritius in November 2014.

You left the Board in June 2015 at AfriNIC-22 in Tunis, less that 6
months ago, after being Chair for over Two years and three months.

I have now Chaired the Board for exactly one Year.

I still accept responsibility for your diagnosis of the pathetic level
of mediocrity in the current Board, the above is just to set the records
straight.

Cheers.

SF.

On 23/11/2015 21:08, Badru Ntege wrote:
 
 Saul

You obviously have a limited understanding of the history. Lusaka was my
 
 first board and the results being reported were for a budget I inherited.
For decisions made by a previous board with the best of intentions.
 
 If you read clearly my emails which I'm sure you have not you will see
 
 that half if not the majority of your email with all due respect is
baseless.
 
 I will thus not continue on personalisation since I do not recall any
 
 personalisation.  Please go back and read all the emails very slowly. I
have utmost respect for the individuals but does not mean you cannot point
out what is wrong.
 
 Your email is exactly the problem. Afrinic does not belong to any of us
 
 we will come and go and others will continue but when you think you cannot
separate individual from the roles they do then we end up accepting
everything for fear of hurting people's feelings.
 
 Just take your time and read all the emails please the comment.

Badru Ntege
CEO
NFT Consult Ltd
Www..Nftconsult.com

?Vision without execution is hallucination.?
? Thomas A. Edison






 
 On 23 Nov 2015, at 10:35 pm, Saul <saul at enetworks.co.za> wrote:

Badru, I can no longer refrain from commenting at your constant
 
 
 berating,
 
 
 non-constructive posts, waste of bandwidth, time and being critical of
 
 
 the
 
 
 board, community and its processes - something that you were in charge
 
 
 of
 
 
 until just short of a year ago and then still on the board until the
 
 
 last
 
 
 elections (6 months ago)- so this is something that you are very
responsible for.

You are constantly making accusations against members of the board in
 
 
 this
 
 
 public forum and with non-public knowledge and then plead NDA when asked
for fact to backup your allegations.

You are now alluding to your prowess at running a multi million dollar
company, I refer you back to the Lusaka AGMM where AFRINIC, under your
leadership ran at a loss and the financials were late. When questioned
about what you were going to do to rectify the issue, the response was,
 
 
 we
 
 
 don't need to do anything different. Funny thing those financials have
always been a sticky point recently...

maybe where there is smoke there is fire, so let's stop this non-sense,
we're IT people, like logs, facts don't lie, so lets get these current,
correctly  audited financials and see what status AFRINIC has been left
in.

I am not interested in a slinging match, so lets keep the mails on this
list factual and constructive

Saul


-----Original Message-----
From: Badru Ntege [mailto:badru.ntege at nftconsult.com]
Sent: 23 November 2015 05:01 PM
To: Randy Bush <randy at psg.com>
Cc: General Discussions of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinicnet>;
AfriNIC Discuss <members-discuss at afrinic.net>
Subject: Re: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
November 2015


Hi Randy





On 11/23/15, 5:17 PM, "Randy Bush" <randy at psg.com> wrote:

 
 
 :-) its because the packets are moving fantastically well, need to
get the layer 9 to the same level.
 
 never happen.  layer nine involves all us overevolved funny monkeys.

but, as one of the folk who helped get into the current hole,
 
 Another valid purely subjective view.  One would have to understand all
the dynamics but that would be very difficult in a world of limited
transparency thus your subjective view is based on the pre-edited
information that you have access to.

So if one really understands the causes as opposed to gueses based on a
particular agenda we could be having additive discussions.  My emails
 
 
 try
 
 
 to be additive but if you look at the responses from the executive they
never dissapoint at dragging the dialogue down. They have earned a
 
 
 record
 
 
 for consistency.

 
 i am
always interested in your constructive suggestions on how to get out.
 
 Thank you. Just like many others I have a vested interest in the good of
the community and will try my best.

 
 i am not sure niggling about micro-timing of reports is attacking the
roots of the problem.
 
 On the contrary it is the root of the problem. It all starts from the
 
 
 lack
 
 
 of order and dedication.  We leave in a world of last minute delivery.
 
 
 (on
 
 
 this one trust me I know.)  So we are ticking boxes without focusing on
the core.

 
 otoh, i do look forward to a thorough audit, governance committee,
etc.
 
 We all do.  I hope your patience has the resilience needed for the
 
 
 current
 
 
 modus operandus.

 
 i am patient and i trust the current
executive.

randy
 
 _______________________________________________
Community-Discuss mailing list
Community-Discuss at afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss

_______________________________________________
Members-Discuss mailing list
Members-Discuss at afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
 
 _______________________________________________
Members-Discuss mailing list
Members-Discuss at afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
 
 _______________________________________________
Members-Discuss mailing list
Members-Discuss at afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss

 
  
  
 _______________________________________________
Members-Discuss mailing list
Members-Discuss at afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss
 
 
 
_______________________________________________
Members-Discuss mailing list
Members-Discuss at afrinic.net
https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss


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https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/members-discuss


 
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From Serge.Ilunga at vodacom.cd  Tue Nov 24 21:46:48 2015
From: Serge.Ilunga at vodacom.cd (Ilunga, Serge, Vodacom DRC)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 2015 21:46:48 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
In-Reply-To: <CAD_dc6i5VCNUT7C8rL=k465eXeVDBa0fofYwX3MjqMAOBXbizw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <FFA0B306-5F7A-4C69-8EF9-5A79AB51B7CA@nftconsult.com>
 <86D7130D-C924-461E-8EDD-72BEAC675C9A@liquidtelecom.com>
 <3380710B-F06E-458F-AFA2-9D630C1A6194@nftconsult.com>
 <56A17566-C189-492A-B11A-99A811F6D0DC@delong.com>
 <DDB99A59-FB85-4CED-A6E2-4BEE52F3E9B3@nftconsult.com>
 <751F4BC0-5657-4814-8405-2C15D2BCF73A@delong.com>
 <CAEqgTWbYYQ=T6cxzFZBbeKTExTNoyuGWdBpvmjToqan2i7jE_Q@mail.gmail.com>,
 <CAD_dc6i5VCNUT7C8rL=k465eXeVDBa0fofYwX3MjqMAOBXbizw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0lhukxis1gtg7902m4kk8pmk.1448400857435@email.android.com>

+1 Seun.
We are a community driven organization and our attitude in every case shall tend to valuate each other.

It is painful to see such exchange on this list.
Thanks Dr. Nii for the advice.

Kind Regards.



Envoy? depuis mon smartphone Samsung Galaxy.


-------- Message d'origine --------
De : Seun Ojedeji <seun.ojedeji at gmail.com>
Date :24/11/2015 22:29 (GMT+01:00)
A : General discussion of AFRINIC <community-discuss at afrinic.net>
Cc : AfriNIC Discuss <members-discuss at afrinic.net>
Objet : Re: [members-discuss] [Community-Discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd November 2015


Hello Noah,

I don't think a public response like this to a community member is appropriate. We all have our differences and we should recognise that by accommodating one another.

I have participated within other RIR communities and I don't experience such a response, the worse I get is "no response" to my comments (which by the way can be annoying), but it doesn't mean I am not permitted to share my view.

I encourage us all to remain focused on the substance in the interest of the organisation. Like Prof Nii rightly alluded to; the world is watching.

Regards

Sent from my Asus Zenfone2
Kindly excuse brevity and typos.





[cid:image373d54.JPG at 4ea32c91.47a758fe]


Ilunga, Serge, Vodacom DRC

Transmission Optimization Manager

Landline: +243814443160

Mobile: +243814443160

Email: Serge.Ilunga at vodacom.cd<mailto:Serge.Ilunga at vodacom.cd>

Address: 3157, Blvd du 30 juin, Building Mobil - Oil,

Kinshasa - Gombe, Republique Democratique du Congo

<http://www.vodacom.cd/><http://http://www.vodacom.cd/>www.vodacom.cd<http://www.vodacom.cd>

<https://twitter.com/#!/Vodacomcongo>

MEILLEUR RESEAU INTERNET EN RDC


[cid:imageb6b37f.JPG at 7a1d18d8.4ab68fac]



This e-mail is classified C2 - Vodacom Restricted - Information to be used inside Vodacom but it may be shared with authorised partners.

Ce courriel est classifi? C2 ? Vodacom Restreint. Ce sont des informations dont la divulgation non autoris?e, en particulier en dehors de l'organisation, serait inappropri?e et inopportune



On 24 Nov 2015 20:50, "Noah" <noah at neo.co.tz<mailto:noah at neo.co.tz>> wrote:

Some of you ought to remain either silent or as observers......

some of your comments clearly ever add value....

We are sick and tired....

Noah

On 24 Nov 2015 22:37, "Owen DeLong" <owen at delong.com<mailto:owen at delong.com>> wrote:

On Nov 24, 2015, at 04:08 , Badru Ntege <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com<mailto:badru.ntege at nftconsult.com>> wrote:

Owen

I think Andrew did make his point very clear and as shocking as it maybe to you I think we had a fact based discussion and to me ended mutually.  Actually again to shock you I of all the dialogue I had on this list I think the one with Andrew was clear.

What I do not understand is contributions like yours which look for what was not in the email.  I might not agree with Andrew most times but does not mean I cannot dialogue with him.

You are the one incorporating things not in the email. I never said you could not dialogue with Andrew and I would never presume to speak for him.

I spoke only to what I saw as the facts of the matter and of my opinion as a concerned member of the community.


Unless he asked you to help on the mail (which I doubt)  I do not understand why you then write on his behalf

Again, I do not believe I did so. I wrote on my behalf as a concerned member of the community who is tired of your repetitive attempts to rewrite history to your own liking.

Unfortunately its missguided souls like you that are part of our biggest problem.  One could even go as far as calling  the cancer.

An interesting and telling comment.

I wonder, could you attack my statements on their merit rather than resorting to ad hominem?

Owen


Baffled ????????


On 11/23/15, 10:35 PM, "Owen DeLong" <owen at delong.com<mailto:owen at delong.com>> wrote:


On Nov 23, 2015, at 03:26 , Badru Ntege <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com<mailto:badru.ntege at nftconsult.com>> wrote:

Andrew

Comments inline

On 11/23/15, 2:11 PM, "Andrew Alston" <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com<mailto:Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>> wrote:

Hi All,

Firstly, let me state my apologies for my silence of late, due to circumstances beyond my control I have been largely out of contact for the purposes of AfriNIC business for the better part of 2 months.  It is important to note that the terms of reference require that the audit committee act unanimously, and this could not happen over this period, hence certain delays, which again, I apologise for.

Could we be lead to assume that you do not have enough time to serve Afrinic.  We do totally understand that Afrinic is purely voluntary and if your primary assignments have become too demanding, mechanisms of relieving the workload do exist.  I?m sure chair is fully aware of these so we do not have to elaborate.

Badru,

It?s clear you can be led to assume whatever you wish and that you are clearly attempting to lead the community to assume facts not in evidence.

Even the most dedicated volunteers sometimes have things come up which temporarily pull them away from their volunteer duties. Andrew has expressed this in a manner that implies the distraction was temporary in nature and I see no reason to believe otherwise. I?m quite certain that if Andrew faced any sort of permanent inability to fulfill his obligations, he would act accordingly without requiring any form of encouragement from you.



Please rest assured that a lot of work has gone in since Tunis into ensuring that the information that is provided to the community is accurate and a fair representation.  I would rather such information was provided slightly delayed than contained inaccuracies or disputed pointed, and as a result, the work has taken a significant amount of time, due to the care and thoroughness applied.

The above in a way is in contradiction to your pre-ceeding statement which referred to conflicting priorities.

No, it isn?t. Andrew stated that one of the contributing factors to the overall delay has been his inability to work on the matter.

This paragraph seems to me to state that there are other factors as well, including the need for extensive work presumably performed by other members of the committee. Further, Andrew stated that his inability to work on the matter only covers the last 2 months (September and October). Since the Tunis meeting was early in June, that leaves several other months during which even he could have been doing significant work on this.

You seem so determined to find fault with the current board and Andrew in particular that you have failed to apply even the most basic of logic and mathematics to your analysis of Andrew?s message.



Lastly, Badru, you make reference to 3 days instead of 14 days.  I point out that the notice of the SGMM was published on the 20th of November 2014, for an SGMM that is scheduled for the 3rd of December.  By my calculations, 3 days would mean that the SGMM is on the 23rd of November, so you seem to have misplaced 11 days.  Hence, while you refer to a section in the bylaws that references ANNUAL general meetings, rather that SPECIAL general meetings, if you choose to conflate the two (and there is reason within the companies act why you should not do that), even under these circumstances the timelines have been met.

My reference to the 3 days was to the information provided by Chair in the earlier email.  However once again this is subjective based on ones paradigm.

Then your reference is misplaced because as Andrew pointed out, you referenced a section of the bylaws that applies to the notice to be given of Annual General Member Meetings. If you have a correct reference in the bylaws that requires 14 days notice for the information from the chair in the earlier email, please provide a corrected reference point in the bylaws. Otherwise, please accept that you were mistaken and let?s all move on from this point.

Owen


_______________________________________________ Community-Discuss mailing list Community-Discuss at afrinic.net<mailto:Community-Discuss at afrinic.net> https://lists.afrinic.net/mailman/listinfo/community-discuss
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Community-Discuss mailing list
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From amelnaud at gmail.com  Wed Nov 25 08:56:28 2015
From: amelnaud at gmail.com (Arnaud AMELINA)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2015 08:56:28 +0000
Subject: [Community-Discuss] [members-discuss] AFRINIC Update 23rd
 November 2015
In-Reply-To: <CAEqgTWbYYQ=T6cxzFZBbeKTExTNoyuGWdBpvmjToqan2i7jE_Q@mail.gmail.com>
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Message-ID: <CAGDMR_fSSaCm+jcvfj-ruHu94iCVzcJ-Vv=nZ2PazKDByP1joA@mail.gmail.com>

@Noah
Very sorry for my reaction because I didn't see the message for which you
react. So +1

Thanks Sun for your support, Africa needs leaders like you. Please let'us
Continue.

Best regards

Arnaud
Le 24 nov. 2015 19:50, "Noah" <noah at neo.co.tz> a ?crit :

> Some of you ought to remain either silent or as observers......
>
> some of your comments clearly ever add value....
>
> We are sick and tired....
>
> Noah
> On 24 Nov 2015 22:37, "Owen DeLong" <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> On Nov 24, 2015, at 04:08 , Badru Ntege <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Owen
>>
>> I think Andrew did make his point very clear and as shocking as it maybe
>> to you I think we had a fact based discussion and to me ended mutually.
>> Actually again to shock you I of all the dialogue I had on this list I
>> think the one with Andrew was clear.
>>
>> What I do not understand is contributions like yours which look for what
>> was not in the email.  I might not agree with Andrew most times but does
>> not mean I cannot dialogue with him.
>>
>>
>> You are the one incorporating things not in the email. I never said you
>> could not dialogue with Andrew and I would never presume to speak for him.
>>
>> I spoke only to what I saw as the facts of the matter and of my opinion
>> as a concerned member of the community.
>>
>>
>> Unless he asked you to help on the mail (which I doubt)  I do not
>> understand why you then write on his behalf
>>
>>
>> Again, I do not believe I did so. I wrote on my behalf as a concerned
>> member of the community who is tired of your repetitive attempts to rewrite
>> history to your own liking.
>>
>> Unfortunately its missguided souls like you that are part of our biggest
>> problem.  One could even go as far as calling  the cancer.
>>
>>
>> An interesting and telling comment.
>>
>> I wonder, could you attack my statements on their merit rather than
>> resorting to ad hominem?
>>
>> Owen
>>
>>
>> Baffled ????????
>>
>>
>> On 11/23/15, 10:35 PM, "Owen DeLong" <owen at delong.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Nov 23, 2015, at 03:26 , Badru Ntege <badru.ntege at nftconsult.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> Comments inline
>>
>> On 11/23/15, 2:11 PM, "Andrew Alston" <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Firstly, let me state my apologies for my silence of late, due to
>> circumstances beyond my control I have been largely out of contact for the
>> purposes of AfriNIC business for the better part of 2 months.  It is
>> important to note that the terms of reference require that the audit
>> committee act unanimously, and this could not happen over this period,
>> hence certain delays, which again, I apologise for.
>>
>>
>> Could we be lead to assume that you do not have enough time to serve
>> Afrinic.  We do totally understand that Afrinic is purely voluntary and if
>> your primary assignments have become too demanding, mechanisms of relieving
>> the workload do exist.  I?m sure chair is fully aware of these so we do not
>> have to elaborate.
>>
>>
>> Badru,
>>
>> It?s clear you can be led to assume whatever you wish and that you are
>> clearly attempting to lead the community to assume facts not in evidence.
>>
>> Even the most dedicated volunteers sometimes have things come up which
>> temporarily pull them away from their volunteer duties. Andrew has
>> expressed this in a manner that implies the distraction was temporary in
>> nature and I see no reason to believe otherwise. I?m quite certain that if
>> Andrew faced any sort of permanent inability to fulfill his obligations, he
>> would act accordingly without requiring any form of encouragement from you.
>>
>>
>>
>> Please rest assured that a lot of work has gone in since Tunis into
>> ensuring that the information that is provided to the community is accurate
>> and a fair representation.  I would rather such information was provided
>> slightly delayed than contained inaccuracies or disputed pointed, and as a
>> result, the work has taken a significant amount of time, due to the care
>> and thoroughness applied.
>>
>>
>> The above in a way is in contradiction to your pre-ceeding statement
>> which referred to conflicting priorities.
>>
>>
>> No, it isn?t. Andrew stated that one of the contributing factors to the
>> overall delay has been his inability to work on the matter.
>>
>> This paragraph seems to me to state that there are other factors as well,
>> including the need for extensive work presumably performed by other members
>> of the committee. Further, Andrew stated that his inability to work on the
>> matter only covers the last 2 months (September and October). Since the
>> Tunis meeting was early in June, that leaves several other months during
>> which even he could have been doing significant work on this.
>>
>> You seem so determined to find fault with the current board and Andrew in
>> particular that you have failed to apply even the most basic of logic and
>> mathematics to your analysis of Andrew?s message.
>>
>>
>>
>> Lastly, Badru, you make reference to 3 days instead of 14 days.  I point
>> out that the notice of the SGMM was published on the 20th of November 2014,
>> for an SGMM that is scheduled for the 3rd of December.  By my calculations,
>> 3 days would mean that the SGMM is on the 23rd of November, so you seem to
>> have misplaced 11 days.  Hence, while you refer to a section in the bylaws
>> that references ANNUAL general meetings, rather that SPECIAL general
>> meetings, if you choose to conflate the two (and there is reason within the
>> companies act why you should not do that), even under these circumstances
>> the timelines have been met.
>>
>>
>> My reference to the 3 days was to the information provided by Chair in
>> the earlier email.  However once again this is subjective based on ones
>> paradigm.
>>
>>
>> Then your reference is misplaced because as Andrew pointed out, you
>> referenced a section of the bylaws that applies to the notice to be given
>> of Annual General Member Meetings. If you have a correct reference in the
>> bylaws that requires 14 days notice for the information from the chair in
>> the earlier email, please provide a corrected reference point in the
>> bylaws. Otherwise, please accept that you were mistaken and let?s all move
>> on from this point.
>>
>> Owen
>>
>>
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