[afripv6-discuss] Re: [ppml] PI addressing in IPv6 advances in ARIN

JORDI PALET MARTINEZ jordi.palet at consulintel.es
Fri Apr 14 14:22:40 SAST 2006


Hi all,

My first idea was submitting a PI IPv6 policy proposal next Monday to RIPE
and the rest of the regions, trying to get a consensus for a "global" policy
on this, but as this thread is being followed up in several mail exploders,
to avoid a long cross-posting, I think it will be better to start some
discussion already in a mailing list which is global, and actually I think
we have the right one ... global-v6 at lists.apnic.net

So, if you aren't subscribed in the global-v6 at lists.apnic.net, and you're
interested in this thread, please subscribe at
http://mailman.apnic.net/mailman/listinfo/global-v6

If you're late because the Eastern, the archives are also available at
http://www.apnic.net/mailing-lists/global-v6/

Regards,
Jordi




> De: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>
> Responder a: <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>
> Fecha: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 13:39:07 +0200
> Para: "v6ops at ops.ietf.org" <v6ops at ops.ietf.org>, "ppml at arin.net"
> <ppml at arin.net>, "shim6 at psg.com" <shim6 at psg.com>
> Conversación: [ppml] PI addressing in IPv6 advances in ARIN
> Asunto: Re: [ppml] PI addressing in IPv6 advances in ARIN
> 
> Hi Owen,
> 
> You said it: If somebody find the good solution, it will be attractive to
> the people to go for it. Otherwise, you always have the chance to become an
> LIR. My proposal actually is already considering this point and a way to
> avoid a need for renumbering if that happens.
> 
> I just want to make sure that we have a way-out if it becomes necessary, but
> avoid a showstopper now. I think is it possible.
> 
> I don't have a technical solution yet (and agree with your views on this in
> the email below in general), but I'm confident we will have. If it will take
> 4 years from now, or just 2, who knows, so my proposal is ensuring that we
> have those 4 years+3 for allowing the people either to return the block, or
> become an LIR and avoid renumbering an any changes in their network.
> 
> By the way, it may happen, and I'm hoping so, that the technical solution
> don't make necessary to return the PI block anymore, and in that case, we
> will be even able to remove at that time the "temporarily" point in the
> policy (if it becomes accepted).
> 
> Regards,
> Jordi
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> De: Owen DeLong <owen at delong.com>
>> Responder a: <owen at delong.com>
>> Fecha: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 03:48:34 -0700
>> Para: <jordi.palet at consulintel.es>, "v6ops at ops.ietf.org"
>> <v6ops at ops.ietf.org>,
>> "ppml at arin.net" <ppml at arin.net>, "shim6 at psg.com" <shim6 at psg.com>
>> Asunto: Re: [ppml] PI addressing in IPv6 advances in ARIN
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --On April 14, 2006 12:20:06 PM +0200 JORDI PALET MARTINEZ
>> <jordi.palet at consulintel.es> wrote:
>> 
>> [snip]
>>> However, I want to balance this with the medium-long term implications
>>> created in the routing table and with the time needed to build and deploy
>>> a better technical solution (or several) which is accepted by the
>>> community.
>>> 
>> I think we first need to define what we consider a solution... See below.
>> 
>>> So my proposal basically is about having PI now everywhere (once ARIN
>>> adopt it, is unfair not having it in other regions), but those PI
>>> allocations for multihoming should be temporary and those address blocks
>>> returned to the RIRs some time (lets say 3 years) after the new technical
>>> solution is declared as a valid one.
>>> 
>> I would not actually support this idea.  The whole point of having PI
>> space is to have the addresses for a long-term.  Having a timeframe for
>> return would simply restore the same barrier to entry that existed
>> prior to passing the policy.
>> 
>> Other RIRs are free to implement whatever v6 PI policy they feel is
>> appropriate for their region.  I would support a globally standardized
>> v6 PI policy along the lines of ARIN 2005-1.
>> 
>> However, I would like to argue that if the new technical solution will
>> benefit from the return of this address space, it is most likely not
>> truly a solution, but, instead, another clever hack piled on top of
>> the existing set of hacks.
>> 
>> I suppose if someone found the magic bullet to make geotopological
>> addressing really work, that might qualify.  However, I have very low
>> expectations in that area.
>> 
>> Absent that, any true solution will involve making the size of the routing
>> table independent of the number of PI (or even PA) blocks issued by
>> the RIRs or will make the size of the routing table practically
>> irrelevant.
>> 
>> I know this isn't the easy solution, but, we need to look long and
>> hard at the way we do things.  I think that solving these problems
>> is going to require a significant paradigm shift.  Assuming that we
>> can use IP addresses for both end system identification and for
>> routing topology indicators is how we created this problem.  I don't
>> see solving it without breaking that assumption, at least at the
>> interdomain level.
>> 
>> 
>>> At this way, on the long-run, we will not have routing table implications,
>>> but we allow now the people that want to move ahead only if they have a
>>> multihoming solution doing so.
>>> 
>> If you think there is a possible solution (a real solution, not just
>> a hack that postpones the inevitable at the expense of usability
>> like CIDR did), then I'd like to hear what you are thinking.
>> 
>>> This 3-years time for getting a multihoming network back to the new
>>> technical solution (once adopted) is enough time, I think (it could be
>>> changed to 5 years if needed, or whatever), so nobody today see the
>>> temporarily of the proposal as a showstopper to go for it now.
>>> 
>> I think you underestimate the momentum and requirements of the modern
>> enterprise if you believe that to be true.  Any capability available
>> in v4 that is not available on at least equal or better terms in v6
>> is a deterrent to v6 deployment.
>> 
>> The ability to get permanent addresses which do not have to be returned
>> when you switch providers or renumbered on a schedule determined by
>> some external organization is a major example of such a capability.
>> 
>> Owen
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> If it wasn't crypto-signed, it probably didn't come from me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> **********************************************
> The IPv6 Portal: http://www.ipv6tf.org
> 
> Barcelona 2005 Global IPv6 Summit
> Slides available at:
> http://www.ipv6-es.com
> 
> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or
> confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the
> individual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that
> any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this
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Barcelona 2005 Global IPv6 Summit
Slides available at:
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