<html><head></head><body bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><div>The question was why would you want to regulate at national level and the what/how?</div><div><br></div><div>If you are not able to give a convincing answer you need not attack experts ? One was candid to suggest we might not mean regulation but something else. </div><div><br></div><div>However respondents were adamant<span class="Apple-style-span" style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); "> and kept pushing regulation whereas what we need is investment, capacity, security, etc which don't sound like regulation ?</span></div><div><br>On Oct 30, 2012, at 12:00, bouba <<a href="mailto:djamaab@yahoo.fr">djamaab@yahoo.fr</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:Courier New, courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><div><span>Why as soon as we enter the field of ICT in general and the Internet in particular, the "experts" want us to re-invent the wheel?<br><br>Internet is a tool for human development as any other traditional tool like as means of classic communication (road, rail, air, maritime, ...), water or energy, etc..<br><br>I take for example the case of the road: There are rules for its proper use, isn't it?<br><br>On the road there is any type of car, how they should move according to their nature (motorbikes, bicycles, cars, trucks, ...) and even the nature of what they are carrying?<br><br>To drive, you need a driver's license and matching rules to follow. In some countries it leads to right and other left. If you move from one country to another you must adapt.<br><br>We stop or pass traffic lights or intersections
in respects of a well-defined rules by the legislature or the Government?<br><br>In case of disputes between users, procedures settlement of these disputes are also defined and clearly.<br><br>Is it regulation or not?<br><br>If so and I think so, for me regulation is more organize than control then, why Internet will escape to this? because we are in a new era ? If yes, for that reason it has to be regulated in all of its aspects.<br><br>In this forum we welcomed the establishment of Africa CERT, I think this is one of the regulatory tools of the Internet.<br><br>I hope that fear of "Internet Regulation" did not come because some of our brother are financially supported by some Western countries or some of their organisations in participating to Internet fora and meetings ?<br><br>Western countries often like to put their civil society / Internet activist forward to show the danger of Internet regulations because it is their interests ... <br>We
know these organisations are well funded and supported by their Governments ...<br><br>They like to say that “regulation” is control and much more is silence. This is not how I understand this word but rather organize.<br><br>In fact, I think we need to be organized and if we can not do it quickly at the continental level, then each country can advance. Then we can share experience and learn from each other.<br><br>For me Internet regulation is vital. Then we can see how to proceed ...<br><br>Peace...</span></div><div><span></span></div><div> </div><div><font size="2">----<br>Eng. Djamaa BOUBA<br>Director of Normalisation and Cooperation<br>National Agency for ICTs<br>Yaoundé-Cameroun<br>Email (Pro) : <a href="mailto:bouba@antic.cm">bouba@antic.cm</a><br>GSM : +237 77 32 46 17<br></font><br></div> <div style="font-family: Courier New, courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;">
<div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">De :</span></b> Gideon <<a href="mailto:gideonrop@gmail.com">gideonrop@gmail.com</a>><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">À :</span></b> <a href="mailto:africann@afrinic.net">africann@afrinic.net</a> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Envoyé le :</span></b> Mardi 30 octobre 2012 10h24<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Objet :</span></b> [AfrICANN-discuss] Let's be proactive<br> </font> </div> <br><div id="yiv606238786"><br>+++1 Ben Fuller, <br><br>I think we have a potential to internally pool resources , fund and sustain projects, may be that is when some serious incubation could possibly happen. Perhaps its when resources come from within will such projects be seriously guarded and managed because the investment seed-funding is in-sourced and any losses would not be tolerated.<br>
<br>Gideon Rop<br><br><div class="yiv606238786gmail_quote">On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 11:56 AM, <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:africann-request@afrinic.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:africann-request@afrinic.net">africann-request@afrinic.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="yiv606238786gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
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Today's Topics:<br>
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1. Re: Let's be proactive (Ben Fuller)<br>
2. Re: Let's be proactive (Adamou Nacer)<br>
3. Re: Let's be proactive (Nii Narku Quaynor)<br>
4. Re: Let's be proactive - domain names regulator (Vika Mpisane)<br>
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----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 10:41:52 +0200<br>
From: Ben Fuller <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:abutiben@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:abutiben@gmail.com">abutiben@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [AfrICANN-discuss] Let's be proactive<br>
To: Pierre Lotis NANKEP <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:lnankep@yahoo.fr" target="_blank" href="mailto:lnankep@yahoo.fr">lnankep@yahoo.fr</a>>, <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:africann@afrinic.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:africann@afrinic.net">africann@afrinic.net</a><br>
Message-ID:<br>
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<br>
Please, get serious.<br>
<br>
The African Union comes from the OAU which was started in 1963. That<br>
was 49 years ago. Just shy of half a century, two and a half<br>
generations ago. Yet, still begging for donor funds. Enough to make me<br>
puke. This is the typical incompetent, idiotic agenda of people<br>
raised without a clue; "Let's blame the donors instead of asking<br>
ourselves why we do not focus on generating our own funds."<br>
<br>
Are you telling me that there is not enough surplus cash in the whole<br>
continent to fund the AU?<br>
<br>
That is one of the major problems in Africa. Instead of looking to<br>
stand on our own feet, we go whine about our poverty and hope that<br>
someone gives us money. That is not proactive. If this list wants to<br>
speak about the African IT agenda (or whatever you want to call it)<br>
with ICANN then be proactive and stop moaning about how much money you<br>
need. Focus on what we can contribute.<br>
<br>
Ben<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 9:48 AM, Pierre Lotis NANKEP <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:lnankep@yahoo.fr" target="_blank" href="mailto:lnankep@yahoo.fr">lnankep@yahoo.fr</a>> wrote:<br>
> That is a useful link : "Foreign funds shock for Dlamini-Zuma".<br>
> For me, it confirms the role and the hidden objectives of some donors.<br>
><br>
><br>
> ________________________________<br>
> De : Dr Eberhard Lisse <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:el@lisse.na" target="_blank" href="mailto:el@lisse.na">el@lisse.na</a>><br>
> À :<br>
> Cc : <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:africann@afrinic.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:africann@afrinic.net">africann@afrinic.net</a><br>
> Envoyé le : Mardi 30 octobre 2012 8h23<br>
> Objet : Re: [AfrICANN-discuss] Let's be proactive<br>
><br>
> You see,<br>
><br>
> the 3 percent not funded by western donors, don't pay so much per diems<br>
> and travel is in Economy Class, so we'll get them "Organozed" too :-)-o<br>
><br>
> <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.bdlive.co.za/world/africa/2012/10/29/foreign-funds-shock-for-dlamini-zuma">http://www.bdlive.co.za/world/africa/2012/10/29/foreign-funds-shock-for-dlamini-zuma</a><br>
><br>
> on 2012-10-30 08:00 Nii Narku Quaynor said the following:<br>
>> Sounds like impossible...<br>
>><br>
>> On Oct 30, 2012, at 5:19, "Dr Eberhard W Lisse" <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:el@lisse.na" target="_blank" href="mailto:el@lisse.na">el@lisse.na</a><br>
>> <mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:el@lisse.na" target="_blank" href="mailto:el@lisse.na">el@lisse.na</a>>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>> 97% of the programs in Africa perhaps?<br>
>>><br>
>>> The ones that are donor funded...<br>
>>><br>
>>> Jeepers, this is fun...<br>
>>><br>
>>> el<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
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><br>
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><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
**********************************************<br>
Dr. Ben Fuller<br>
<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:abutiben@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:abutiben@gmail.com">abutiben@gmail.com</a><br>
<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:ben@fuller.na" target="_blank" href="mailto:ben@fuller.na">ben@fuller.na</a> <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.fuller.na/">http://www.fuller.na</a><br>
blog: <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.fuller.na/">http://www.fuller.na/</a> skype: drbenfuller<br>
*****************************************<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 09:45:29 +0100<br>
From: Adamou Nacer <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:adamou.nacer@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:adamou.nacer@gmail.com">adamou.nacer@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [AfrICANN-discuss] Let's be proactive<br>
To: Pierre Lotis NANKEP <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:lnankep@yahoo.fr" target="_blank" href="mailto:lnankep@yahoo.fr">lnankep@yahoo.fr</a>>, <a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:africann@afrinic.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:africann@afrinic.net">africann@afrinic.net</a><br>
Message-ID: <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:508F93A9.9010105@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:508F93A9.9010105@gmail.com">508F93A9.9010105@gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
<br>
Hi,<br>
Le 30/10/2012 08:37, Pierre Lotis NANKEP a écrit :<br>
><br>
> *From :* Nii Narku Quaynor <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:quaynor@ghana.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:quaynor@ghana.com">quaynor@ghana.com</a>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Oct 30, 2012, at 5:30, Pierre Lotis NANKEP <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:lnankep@yahoo.fr" target="_blank" href="mailto:lnankep@yahoo.fr">lnankep@yahoo.fr</a><br>
> <mailto:<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:lnankep@yahoo.fr" target="_blank" href="mailto:lnankep@yahoo.fr">lnankep@yahoo.fr</a>>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Nii : "So, exactly what is to be regulated about Internet in a<br>
>> country ?"<br>
>><br>
>> Quick answer :<br>
>> - Domain Names;<br>
>> - IP Addresses;<br>
>> - Contents(very complex).<br>
>><br>
> What do you want to regulate about domain names and IP addresses?<br>
> You have to get specific.<br>
><br>
> The answer is trivial! Not?<br>
><br>
Pierre, personally I don't like this word especially when it comes from<br>
a government's organization like ANTIC. In general, this means that<br>
regulation is a set of rules and decisions that are taken by the<br>
government without taking into account interests and points of view of<br>
all stakeholders (civil society, academia, private sector, etc). And in<br>
general, the interest of government doesn't totally coincide with those<br>
of other stakeholders. An example in Cameroon is the national fiber<br>
optic backbone's issue.<br>
In summary, I don't have any problem with regulation as far as the<br>
process of regulating take into account the widest audience expectations<br>
about the resource to be regulate.<br>
<br>
Once this (regulation) is done in a collaborative and transparent way,<br>
its results have more chances to be accepted by all parties and that in<br>
my opinion is what we are looking for. Internet resources are well<br>
managed once the decisions that rule them are accepted by all parties.<br>
<br>
Another danger is in the process to forget that even if we are<br>
discussing issues of Internet in a national framework, what we decide<br>
has an impact even out of the national territory. Websites that are<br>
identified by domain names are visited from other countries too, as an<br>
example. So the International Internet community is a stakeholder to<br>
include in the discussion.<br>
<br>
This is just an opinion from a non expert ;-)<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
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Message: 3<br>
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 08:46:06 +0000<br>
From: Nii Narku Quaynor <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:quaynor@ghana.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:quaynor@ghana.com">quaynor@ghana.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [AfrICANN-discuss] Let's be proactive<br>
To: Pierre Lotis NANKEP <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:lnankep@yahoo.fr" target="_blank" href="mailto:lnankep@yahoo.fr">lnankep@yahoo.fr</a>><br>
Cc: "<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:africann@afrinic.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:africann@afrinic.net">africann@afrinic.net</a>" <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:africann@afrinic.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:africann@afrinic.net">africann@afrinic.net</a>><br>
Message-ID: <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:CC267B61-8D41-46D6-846A-05CD07CB4C6C@ghana.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:CC267B61-8D41-46D6-846A-05CD07CB4C6C@ghana.com">CC267B61-8D41-46D6-846A-05CD07CB4C6C@ghana.com</a>><br>
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<br>
<br>
<br>
On Oct 30, 2012, at 7:37, Pierre Lotis NANKEP <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:lnankep@yahoo.fr" target="_blank" href="mailto:lnankep@yahoo.fr">lnankep@yahoo.fr</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> From : Nii Narku Quaynor <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:quaynor@ghana.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:quaynor@ghana.com">quaynor@ghana.com</a>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Oct 30, 2012, at 5:30, Pierre Lotis NANKEP <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:lnankep@yahoo.fr" target="_blank" href="mailto:lnankep@yahoo.fr">lnankep@yahoo.fr</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Nii : "So, exactly what is to be regulated about Internet in a country ?"<br>
>><br>
>> Quick answer :<br>
>> - Domain Names;<br>
>> - IP Addresses;<br>
>> - Contents (very complex).<br>
>><br>
> What do you want to regulate about domain names and IP addresses? You have to get specific.<br>
><br>
> The answer is trivial! Not?<br>
<br>
May be trivial to you but not to me so why not just inform us<br>
<br>
><br>
> A good first step is noticing regulating contents (very complex) so probably a *bad* idea<br>
><br>
> It's your opinion!<br>
<br>
Agree its my opinion and your opinion is to regulate content which you realize is complex;-)<br>
<br>
><br>
>> Other extension, depending on the country context :<br>
>> - Frequencies or electromagnetic waves ;<br>
>> - Telephone Numbers.<br>
>><br>
> Not Internet And not under discussion<br>
><br>
> Not sure. As the boundary between telecommunications and the Internet is almost invisible.<br>
>><br>
><br>
Are you sure? The Internet is two layers above telecommunications. Besides there is a place to discuss telecommunications(frequencies,telephone numbers) and it's not this list<br>
><br>
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Message: 4<br>
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 10:49:18 +0200<br>
From: Vika Mpisane <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:vika@zadna.org.za" target="_blank" href="mailto:vika@zadna.org.za">vika@zadna.org.za</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [AfrICANN-discuss] Let's be proactive - domain names<br>
regulator<br>
To: <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:africann@afrinic.net" target="_blank" href="mailto:africann@afrinic.net">africann@afrinic.net</a>><br>
Message-ID: <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:CCB55DF2.18929%25vika@zadna.org.za" target="_blank" href="mailto:CCB55DF2.18929%25vika@zadna.org.za">CCB55DF2.18929%vika@zadna.org.za</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"<br>
<br>
<br>
On 2012/10/30 10:32 AM, "Dr Paulos Nyirenda" <<a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:paulos@sdnp.org.mw" target="_blank" href="mailto:paulos@sdnp.org.mw">paulos@sdnp.org.mw</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
>On 30 Oct 2012 at 9:33, Vika Mpisane wrote:<br>
><br>
>> +++1 here too.<br>
><br>
>Mmmm ... not so fast ...<br>
<br>
OkŠgood this discussion has finally forced you to return from your leave<br>
of silence:-)<br>
<br>
><br>
>> Regulating domain names & IP addresses is not something I've ever heard<br>
>>of. I've heard<br>
>> of domain name dispute regulation, which of course only regulates how<br>
>>disputes over a<br>
>> domain name in a particular top level domain (TLD) should be handled &<br>
>>resolved.<br>
><br>
>Vika, is that not one of the ZADNA duties under the mandates of ZADNA as<br>
>a government<br>
>body, to regulate registries that run domain names? See section 65 of<br>
>Chapter X of the<br>
>Electronic Communications and Transactions Act of South Africa,<br>
><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.zadna.org.za/mandate.html">http://www.zadna.org.za/mandate.html</a>, also partly copied here below.<br>
><br>
>So, does the RSA government not regulate domains names through ZADNA as<br>
>its Authority?<br>
<br>
The regulation I sought to focus on is the usage of domain names. As you<br>
can see from the ECT Act extract, ZADNA regulates 2nd level domain<br>
registries (e.g. Org.za, <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://co.za/">co.za</a>) & registrars. However, we don't regulate<br>
how a domain name holder uses the domain name. Effectively, we regulate<br>
the ZA domain name registration process that registries & registrars<br>
should adhere to, but we don't regulate the domain names themselves or how<br>
they are used.<br>
<br>
><br>
>Here in Malawi we have a review of the legal framework currently taking<br>
>place and this is<br>
>one of the issues that we have to deal with. For example, the question<br>
>arises whether to<br>
>create a new body like ZADNA or let such regulatory authority be the<br>
>incumbet telecomms<br>
>regulator. What do you think?<br>
<br>
As you might know, domain name regulatory models tend to split between<br>
industry self-regulation, partial government regulation and complete<br>
government regulation. There is no one perfect approach: your<br>
socioeconomic conditions may best inform which model is suitable. For<br>
example, here in ZA, due to our political background, there was a view<br>
that government should be involved. That made sense particularly then, but<br>
now with the involvement of ZADNA, there is a strong comfort on both<br>
government's side & the local industry's side that ZADNA (which has an<br>
independent Board - with no government representation) is the best<br>
regulation model for ZADNA.<br>
<br>
Now MW does not have the same history, and this may mean that may be you<br>
don't need to change your model. Personally, I think industry<br>
self-regulation for domain names is probably the best, provided there are<br>
some established lines of communication between the industry & its<br>
government.<br>
<br>
I'm not sure if the model of having a telecoms operator is the best. In<br>
most instances, I've had to closely look at, such model makes domain name<br>
regulation to be one of the less important priorities, probably out of<br>
telecom regulators' ignorance. As a result, we don't see the telecom<br>
regulators pushing for the development of ccTLDs.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Vika<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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End of AfrICANN Digest, Vol 68, Issue 160<br>
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