Re: Re: __[AfrICANN-discuss]_Fadi_Che hadé:_If_We_Fra_gment_The_Intern et, __'It_Will_Not_Be_The_Interne _=?utf-8?Q?t=5FAs=5FWe=5FKnow=5F It'=5F?=

Dr Yassin Mshana ymshana2003 at gmail.com
Wed Feb 5 22:44:40 SAST 2014


The Internet is Global - and has been democratic - apart from recent events
within our Africa which tried to change its democratic nature,

To me, it will remain global and cant see any other way.....even if one
went to Mars (using the internet-based navigation?)

Just make good use of the phenomenon.

Ben: No one should tell you to shut up

That is my Closing Point .

Kind regards

Yassin


On 5 February 2014 16:28, Ben Akoh <me at benakoh.com> wrote:

> What is this deep seated desire to close dialogues? Where does it come
> from? It defies the very nature of Africans - our cultural fundamentals to
> dialogue until a resolution is reached, until out hearts' content. It
> violates the freedom of speech that we all subscribe to. Totally against
> our being. A dialogue, any dialogue should continue until we are satisfied.
> There are no gate keepers in traditional African dialogue settings. If you
> wish not to participate, just play the lurker. That is some form of
> expression too.
>
> The Balkanization of the internet should concern us and certainly an
> important subject of discussion. Whereas a resolution is not sought, the
> dialogue itself surfaces concerns and issues that through subsidiarity, we
> might resolve in our countries. That, in itself is worth dialoguing.
>
> What could be more developmental than deliberating structures and future
> scenarios of a key infrastructure to our social, economic and environmental
> development as the internet?
>
> Balkanized or whole, a medium of communication bodes strong integral
> influences on the future sustainable development of the continent. What we
> would not like to see is a scenario similar to our current boundary
> management structures where travel, trade, cultural exchange, and
> development has been restricted to visas and travel documents. There are
> strengths and weaknesses to these arguments. They should surface! Let them
> surface! Let the dialogue flow!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Feb 4, 2014, at 3:33 PM, Dr Yassin Mshana <ymshana2003 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Is this debate CLOSED now so that we can focus on developmental issues
> please??
>
> That is all for now from me
>
> Kind regards
>
> Yassin
>
>
> On 4 February 2014 23:15, <jolufuye at aficta.org> wrote:
>
>> Excellent. Thank you all...
>>
>> Warm regards,
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>> Jimson Olufuye, fncs, ficma, PhD
>> CEO Kontemporary®
>> Chair, AfICTA
>> connecting African ICT players &
>> ... fulfilling the promise of the Digital Age for everyone in Africa.
>> www.aficta.org
>> www.kontemporary.net.ng
>> M: +234 802 3183252
>> Skype: jolufuye
>>
>> Disclaimer:
>> This email is for the exclusive recipient/s and it may contain
>> confidential materials. If you have received it and it is not meant for
>> you, please alert me @ jolufuye at aficta.org or discard at once. AfICTA
>> would not be held liable for any material in this email. Thank you.
>>
>>
>>  -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: RE:__[AfrICANN-discuss]_Fadi_Che
>> hadé:_If_We_Fra_gment_The_Intern et,__'It_Will_Not_Be_The_Interne
>> _=?utf-8?Q?t=5FAs=5FWe=5FKnow=5F It'=5F?=
>> From: "Victor Ndonnang" <ndonnang at nvconsulting.biz>
>> Date: Tue, February 04, 2014 10:25 pm
>> To: "'AfrICANN list'" <africann at afrinic.net>
>>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> I shared this interview of Fadi Chehade on this list because I strongly
>> believe in “One World, One Internet, Everybody Connected”. Thank you all
>> who have been commenting it in a very open and constructive way.
>>
>> No nation or “Sovereign” State can really developed by building walls
>> around itself. This is true in the traditional economy, This is also true
>> in the digital economy as well. The history also have two good examples for
>> us: The Soviet Union and China.
>>
>> To pretend having our own internet, we must ask yourself were the
>> Internet comes from and why It is called the Internet. We are enjoying the
>> Internet today because of the US, we should always have that in mind. It is
>> true, the Internet is today a global and public tool but It comes from
>> somewhere, from the will of a nation, the USA. The Internet is the Internet
>> because It is open, because It allows us to communicate, to innovate with
>> permission, to do good things but also bad things.
>>
>> A tool is by nature neutral, people can use it to do good and bad things.
>> When bad things happen, We should blame the perpetrator and not the tool.
>>
>> For those willing a fragmented Internet, the can start search for another
>> name because “When isn’t Open, It is not the Internet” as one of the father
>> of the Internet used to said.
>>
>> A bad diagnostic almost lead to a bad solution. For those want wanted to
>> shift the surveillance and intelligence debate to an Internet debate, I
>> just want to remind them that nations States have spying on each other’s
>> since centuries not just because of the Internet…
>>
>> Let’s do want is good for Africa and the next generations rather than
>> doing what the USSR does when the telephone system was invented.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Victor Ndonnang.
>>
>>
>>
>> *De :* africann-bounces at afrinic.net [mailto:africann-bounces at afrinic.net<africann-bounces at afrinic.net>]
>> *De la part de* Dr Yassin Mshana
>> *Envo**yé :* Tuesday, February 4, 2014 1:50 PM
>> *À :* AfrICANN list
>> *Objet :* Re: _[AfrICANN-discuss]_Fadi_Chehadé:_If_We_Fra
>> gment_The_Internet, _'It_Will_Not_Be_The_Interne
>> =?utf-8?Q?t=5FAs=5FWe=5FKnow=5FIt'=5F?=
>>
>> Any idea how to shelf this anti-development discussion?
>>
>> What I see is 'empty' and 'weak' utterances with no consideration of
>>  fundamentals of the 'Internet Phenomenon' for which I can happily state
>> that "Africa would not have a chance to vent a word if the ICANN Policy was
>> not polished about 10 Years ago"?
>>
>> It is a matter of  'jumping on the train and do good' not to try to lay
>> new rails - What matters is, "How YOU can make a good use of the Phenomenon
>> for the people of this world". Some people may abuse it  while some people
>> do-good business while benefiting the global society.
>>
>> If one talks about the Internet one should forget the 'purposely made
>> geographic borders' which were etched in before the Internet.
>>
>> I for One find the Internet Phenomenon the best Democratic System ever -
>> save for some abuses (mainly within our African community :-(( )
>>
>> Can this discussion not be a cloud to cover the real burning issues in
>> Africa-and-the-Internet-business such as the .africa saga?
>>
>> Let us sort out our home before shouting out how this are!!
>>
>> Its me  Yassin - at this corner
>>
>>
>> On 4 February 2014 16:26, Mukom Akong T. <mukom.tamon at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Interesting discussion, I replied in another thread, so I am re-posting
>> this to maintain the thread and discussion.
>>
>> In the spirit of constructive debate, Pierre, could  you paint for us a
>> model of how this alternative countrinets (Internet within a country) will
>> operate and how they will drive economic development? What would make it
>> faster? cheaper? better? than the status quo?
>>
>>
>> As to your previous message, see comments inline
>>
>> NSA in the U.S. and other intelligence services or espionages (Western
>> countries, Chinese, ...) will eventually convince Nations /
>> Sovereign State to have their own Internet.
>>
>>
>> Actually I don't think so and here's why.  If you are General Keith
>> Alexander (guy who runs NSA), the first logical deduction you get to make
>> (if you can't, you shouldn't even have that job) is that - the PRISM
>> program's success depends on having one large source of data to mine and
>> gather intelligence from (the whole Internet). While from the perspective
>> of 'securing e-borders', your suggestion might make sense, from the
>> perspective of intelligence gathering, it doesn't and the spy agencies
>> everywhere know that. The big players in this space will be the last to
>> advocate for contrinets (unless of course their pockets are deep enough
>> that they can have a self-sustaining one). If countrinets were viable, am
>> sure France would still have its Minitel [
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minitel] running.
>>
>>
>>
>> Africa will lose nothing, let's not be alarmist,
>>
>>
>> Why not ask the African entrepreneurs who have built global companies
>> based upon the Internet what it would mean to them if a large part of the
>> world could not access their service because they happen to be in an
>> Internet block that is not friendly with theirs? Or actually go talk to the
>> aspiring tech-entrepreneurs all over Africa trying to build Internet
>> startups (I think there's one such space in Cameroon - Activespaces based
>> in Buea/Douala).
>>
>>
>>
>> Africa must understand the issues and adapt itself to survive...
>>
>>
>> +1 ... and with that understanding, make its own play in its
>> self-interest.
>>
>>
>>
>> According to their different strategic interests, Nations / Sovereign
>> States will interconnect their Internet (p2p, multilateral peering, etc ...)
>>
>>
>> And so long as those strategic interest are driven by basic economic self
>> interest (think trade) a boundaryless Internet is a requirement. And if you
>> sell something, you want their widest market possible for it ergo, you want
>> the widest boundaryless Internet to go with that ...and the ideal of that
>> tedious route will be the open Internet we now have.
>>
>>
>>
>> The wars in Libya, Syria, Egypt, Sudan, CAR, ... reinforce
>> our position with regard to the future of Internet architecture.
>>
>>
>>
>> Please could you specify  'our' here? Is this the position of the
>> Cameroon IT regulator (ANTIC) and thus the gov't of Cameroon?  That would
>> be good to know.
>>
>> And if we go down this road, will we develop our own protocols? within
>> countries? and would the costs of interconnecting make global information
>> easier to access?
>>
>>
>>
>> In addition, political unrest manipulated by the major world
>> powers (eg, Ukraine, Thailand, etc ...) are also drawing our attention
>> to the precautions for the benefit of our peoples.
>>
>>
>> The Internet is a just a tool, and can be wielded every which way by the
>> person using it. As a farm hand, I cut myself many times with the cutlass
>> or hoe I was using, I bled and swore, I took precautions but never for a
>> moment doubted that the open architecture of cutlass and hoe was
>> instrumental to its affordability to millions of people like me. By all
>> means, let's deal with precautions, I hardly think the benefits of a walled
>> countrinet are out way the loss in value of cutting out huge chunks of the
>> Internet (See Metcalf & Reed's laws on the value of a network)
>>
>>
>>
>> Globalization has not only the positive effects ...
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree 100% with you here. In fact, I'll recommend the "Globalisation
>> and its Discontents" by Joseph Stiglitz, former World Bank chief economist
>> and Nobel laureate. Globalisation - which is well aided by an Open Internet
>> is a weapon - those that master how to wield it will benefit from it, those
>> that don't will suffer but they will suffer not because of the
>> globalisation or the Internet, but because they have failed as persons,
>> organisations, countries or continents to build the capabilities that
>> enable them to produce (not just dig from the ground) and sell products and
>> services to other countries  AND make money.
>>
>>
>> ./shalom
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Mukom Akong T.
>>
>> http://about.me/perfexcellence |  twitter: @perfexcellent
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> “When you work, you are the FLUTE through whose lungs the whispering of
>> the hours turns to MUSIC" - Kahlil Gibran
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> *Independent Consultant*
>> c/o DFID-South Africa, 255 Hill Street, Arcadia, Pretoria 0002, Republic
>> of South Africa
>> Skype: yassinmshana1, Mobile:+2773 079 6267 , Fax: +27 (012) 421 7500
>> *Do You really NEED TO PRINT THIS?*
>>   *"The illiterates of the 21st century are not those who cannot read or*
>> * write but those who cannot learn, relearn and unlearn" Alvin Toffler*
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>
>
> --
> *Independent Consultant*
> c/o DFID-South Africa, 255 Hill Street, Arcadia, Pretoria 0002, Republic
> of South Africa
> Skype: yassinmshana1, Mobile:+2773 079 6267 , Fax: +27 (012) 421 7500
> *Do You really NEED TO PRINT THIS?*
>  * "The illiterates of the 21st century are not those who cannot read or*
> * write** but those who cannot learn, relearn and unlearn" Alvin Toffler*
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-- 
*Independent Consultant*
c/o DFID-South Africa, 255 Hill Street, Arcadia, Pretoria 0002, Republic of
South Africa
Skype: yassinmshana1, Mobile:+2773 079 6267 , Fax: +27 (012) 421 7500
*Do You really NEED TO PRINT THIS?*
 * "The illiterates of the 21st century are not those who cannot read or*
* write** but those who cannot learn, relearn and unlearn" Alvin Toffler*
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